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- From: lwloen@rchland.vnet.ibm.com (Larry Loen)
- Subject: Re: Pardon Fischer?
- Sender: news@rchland.ibm.com
- Message-ID: <1992Dec29.154108.23407@rchland.ibm.com>
- Date: Tue, 29 Dec 1992 15:41:08 GMT
- Reply-To: lwloen@rchland.vnet.ibm.com
- Disclaimer: This posting represents the poster's views, not necessarily those of IBM
- References: <1992Dec22.011249.594@uoft02.utoledo.edu> <1992Dec28.052513.14461@midway.uchicago.edu> <92363.133501IO10928@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> <1992Dec29.055724.23632@midway.uchicago.edu>
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- In article <1992Dec29.055724.23632@midway.uchicago.edu>, hau4@ellis.uchicago.edu (sven hauptfeld) writes:
- |> In article <92363.133501IO10928@MAINE.MAINE.EDU> IO10928@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (ABHAY) writes:
- |> >In article <1992Dec28.052513.14461@midway.uchicago.edu>, hau4@ellis.uchicago.edu
- |> >(sven hauptfeld) says:
- |> >
- |> >>This is really idiotic. Do you think that government having jurisdiction over
- |> >>its people mean that those people are its property? And do you think that a US
- |> >>citizen who kills somebody in another country would be immune of a trial by a
- |> >>US court?
- |> >
- |> >YES! If the person killed is not an american, then he can't be tried in
- |> >U.S. He can be tried in that foreign country, if he is caught there or if
- |> > he is convicted and that country has extradiction treaty with U.S.!!!
- |> >( U.S. doesn't have Extradiction treaty with Yugo.)
- |> >
- |> >>You must be either kidding or totally ignorant.
- |> >I don't think so Sven!
- |> >> Sven
- |> >Abhay
- |>
- |> Why would I take your word at face value? Can you give references (specific
- |> laws or court precedents)?
- |>
- |> I would really be surprised if the US works the way you say. I certainly know
- |> that a Danish truck driver who causes an accident in which people get killed on
- |> a Yugoslav road CAN be tried in Denmark - I know of such a case, where Denmark
- |> demanded extradiction but Yugoslavia refused (he would be a lot better off
- |> under Danish law - but he would stand trial).
- |>
- |> But than, the US are on another planet in many respects, so maybe you are
- |> right. But you'd have to give me some substantial evidence.
- |>
- |> Sven
- |>
-
- The United States has tended, in recent years, to apply its laws outside
- of its borders.
-
- 1) Noreiga comes to mind. Here he was, a leader of a country, for
- heaven's sake. As far as I know, he never, except incidentally, set
- foot on US soil. He was convicted of drug trafficing and currently
- sits in prison. If he was convicted for anything he did _in the
- United States_ I sure missed it. If I accept that he did what he
- was accused of, he undoubtedly did things that are illegal for people
- on US soil to do. However, it was probable that what he did
- was legal under Panamanian law since he basically got to make them
- up or, at least, pardon himself for doing it :-).
-
- 2) Sci.crypt and other newsgroups I don't follow just got done wasting
- a lot of bandwidth on a case where some citizen was seized on the
- high seas for carrying cocaine. The ship was in international waters
- and was (officially, at least) not headed for the United States. It
- was headed for Canada. I don't know the legal fate, but the scuttlebut
- was the person was being convicted. Keep in mind that not all countries
- treat cocaine possession the same way. For instance, the UK's solution
- for the drug problem is to selectively prescribe the drugs to
- "certified" addicts. The exact case was not cited, but the lawyer who
- started the ball rolling sure seemed to be a principal in the case. As
- I recall, the person(s) involved were not US citizens.
-
- This is not altogether a saluatory trend. If everyone agreed on what
- was criminal behavior, that would be one thing. But, there is no such
- agreement and we (in the US) are increasingly at risk that our own
- citizens will be whisked away by kidnappers (oops- cops) from other
- countries for breaking (for hypothetical example) Islamic law.
-
- Note that these people are not US citizens and are not on US soil when
- acting. Fischer's case is comparatively straightforward.
-
- I don't know what to do about Bobby Fischer. Certainly, the US has
- some right to regulate the behavior of its own citizens abroad. But,
- I don't know how far it should and does proceed, constitutionally. I
- do know that commercial dealings don't get much constitutional protection.
- His "crime" seems a very political one; the US is getting in the habit
- of having a lot of political crimes lately and that is the only part of
- the affair that bothers me.
-
- --
- Larry W. Loen | My Opinions are decidedly my own, so please
- | do not attribute them to my employer
-