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- Xref: sparky k12.chat.teacher:5634 misc.education:5495
- Path: sparky!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!olivea!charnel!rat!koko.csustan.edu!nic.csu.net!eis.CalState.EDU!ftoppin
- From: ftoppin@eis.calstate.edu (Frank Topping)
- Newsgroups: k12.chat.teacher,misc.education
- Subject: Is K12Net a faulty product?
- Message-ID: <BznLw6.B18@eis.calstate.edu>
- Date: 22 Dec 92 09:19:17 GMT
- References: <31788.2B348B1F@puddle.fidonet.org>
- Organization: Calif State Univ/Electronic Information Services
- Lines: 92
-
- (posted openly because of current messages in "senior.chat" that are
- attributable to adults - of sexual connotation. ...what is it going to
- actually look like when kids are approached sexually in the conferences
- by adults? ....rather like that, I'd expect. ..._exactly_ like that!)
-
- ...an open response to Helen Stermheim on issues of networking safety.
-
- Helen - Jack Crawford and the K12Net Council are the ones obstructing
- open and honest discussion of the dangers involved in networking via
- K12Net, (sm),(tm) Jack Crawford, Stanley, N.Y.
-
- As long as this obstruction continues you can DAMNED WELL expect I'll be
- opposing the forcing of K12Net into California unchallenged.
-
- ....obstruction such as you've consistantly engaged in is usually
- reserved for use by large corporations when they have "faulty products".
-
- ....anything you don't want new users to know Helen? ...Jack?
-
- I had a child from Sacramento post to this echo once about a problem with
- guns he new of coming to his school. ....you _personally_ told him to get
- out of the Teacher's Chat area. ...didn't refer him back to local
- responsible parties, ....didn't offer any advice, ....threw him out!
-
- Lady - when I see some responsible professional judgement emanate from
- this network I'll back off. ...and that damned well means from you too.
-
- Those postings came from your own conferences that you weren't watching
- _AT ALL_ until I got "in your face" about it. ...now all you're doing is:
- "after the fact" & "CYA". ....as soon as "the heat's off" there is nothing
- preventing the conferences from going back to the same damned miserable shape.
-
- You're putting kids in danger of being hurt and killed the way you've
- insisted on structuring (and in trying covering _that_ up).
-
- Until Jack Crawford has the courage to open honest discussion of the
- dangers I could care less how uncomfortable it gets; ...for me, for you,
- for the full council. ...you aren't forcing this network into California
- without that; ...simply: "open and honest discussion".
-
- You've got an adult in the senior.chat area _NOW_ "leading in" to the kids
- with jokes of sexual connotation. ...what's it going to look like when
- the kids start being approached by adults meaning them harm? ....rather
- like that I'd expect. ...exactly like that, as a matter of fact!
-
- Responsible discussion is a simple thing to ask for.
-
- Responsible discussion would be a simple thing to grant.
-
- You're objecting to the consequences of your own cowardly actions.
-
-
- ...just why _is_ it that you object to teachers knowing what the real
- danger they're facing is - then they could deal with it.
- ...something about being a "networking biggie" gone to your head?
-
- ...you're the one that joined the group that was actually caught lying to
- everyone alse about the existance of the k12.admin hidden conference.
- You sure changed your tune once you got "on the inside". I can still
- remember Mort's own expression of surprise when _he_ found out there was
- a "hidden conference" (that the "council" was denying the existance of).
-
- What do you teach _your_ kids that is? ...whether in corporate boardrooms
- - or on the street corner - it's called LYING. ...blue collar or white
- collar, the people engaging in it are called LIARS! ...ok, so you're
- "walking with liars". If it wasn't for Gordon B. forwarding me the
- captures of the entire conference we'd all still be in the dark, right?
-
- So, just because you and I have different standards, does that mean we
- have to roll over out here and take what those of "lesser standards" are
- going to try to covertly "shove down our kids throats"?
-
- ...not without a fight, lady. ...I've given Honig's office a solemn
- promise of "pickets, placards, posters and press" on the front lawn of
- CDE headquarters if they don't show some of the responsibility you've
- obviously turned your back on. ...I damned well mean it too.
-
- Makes all the difference in the world when your voice isn't stifled
- doesn't it?
-
-
- Let's make it safe out there for 'em instead of putting them:
-
- "in harm's way" - "with blinders on".
-
- btw - there _are_ nets out there that _don't_ endanger kids &
- put teachers at liability to risks they're intentionally kept
- in the dark of.
-
-
-
- Frank L. Topping, Sacramento
-