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- Newsgroups: comp.sys.mac.misc
- Path: sparky!uunet!cs.utexas.edu!sun-barr!ames!nsisrv!smoon@strfleet.gsfc.nasa.gov
- From: smoon@strfleet.gsfc.nasa.gov (Sang J. Moon)
- Subject: Re: Macs cost too much (NOT!)
- Message-ID: <1992Jul24.131236.4307@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov>
- Sender: usenet@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov (Usenet)
- Nntp-Posting-Host: dschonvachler.gsfc.nasa.gov
- Organization: NASA GSFC Code 534.3
- References: <92203.173612ASI509@DJUKFA11.BITNET> <yL0aoB27w165w@mantis.co.uk> <1992Jul23.143042.14243@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> <ewright.711925511@convex.convex.com>
- Date: Fri, 24 Jul 1992 13:12:36 GMT
- Lines: 156
-
- In article <ewright.711925511@convex.convex.com>, ewright@convex.com (Edward V. Wright) writes:
- >
- > In <1992Jul23.143042.14243@nsisrv.gsfc.nasa.gov> smoon@strfleet.gsfc.nasa.gov (Sang J. Moon) writes:
- >
- > >I've been using System 7 with tuneup 1.1.1 for about 6 months now, and I've
- > >had to reinstall system 7 and/or rebuild the desktop file an average of
- > >twice a month. With 75MB of stuff on my hard drive, this has been the
- > >biggest waste of my time.
- >
- > Oh, rubbish. Your PC-bigot friends might be willing (happy!) to
- > belive this, but keep in mind that this is comp.sys.mac and most
- > of the people here have actually used Macs.
- >
- > I've had System 7.0 on my since the day it was released. I have 140M
- > on my hard drives, over 100M of which is used, not to mention gigabytes
- > of CD-ROM. I have never once had to reinstall System 7 in that time.
- > (Never even had to rebuild the desktop, for that matter.) If you have
- > to reinstall the system twice a month, you must be doing something
- > exceptionally stupid, like dragging system components into the trash
- > can and ignoring the warning messages.
-
- I'm happy that you never encountered a need to reinstall System 7, but that
- does not mean someone else did not have to. I am pretty sure that I am
- not the only one who has had to reinstall system 7 several times if the
- many problem articles I see in the comp.sys.mac hierarchy are legit. It
- may be that my mac is more subject to problems because I do far more than
- just plug and run software.
-
- > You also snuck a lie in sideways. You talk about reinstalling the
- > system and rebuilding the desktop together, as if these are both
- > jobs of equivalent complexity. In fact, all you have to do to
- > rebuild the desktop is to hold down a modifier key during startup.
- > Pretty hard, isn't it?
-
- You have never rebuilt your desktop in system 7 so you don't know
- what you are talking about. As far as I know, there is no modifier
- key you can hold down in System 7 to rebuild the desktop. I received
- an extension from someone which allows me to automatically delete
- the desktop FILE on startup. Since you have never rebuilt a desktop
- file, you do not know how long it takes. I have 75MB of stuff, and
- it definitely takes a very long time for it to finish. If you really
- want it, I'll even time it for you.
-
- > Finally, you can't "rebuild the desktop file" in System 7 because
- > there *is* no desktop file. The desktop is now a database, not a
- > file. I only mention this because I thought, since you claim to
- > be a programmer working on a Master's degree, that you might have
- > some idea what you're talking about.
-
- All your articles have consistently been directed at degrading someone
- who disagrees with what you believe to be true rather than expanding on
- subject on hand. If you want to flame me personally, do it in alt.flame
- or through email; otherwise keep this a civil discussion. Database
- information is stored in files, and anyone playing with resedit can see
- the desktop file(s?).
-
- > >Installing software takes just about the same time.
- >
- > Double rubbish.
- >
- > Macintosh: Drag an application icon into a folder or (worst case)
- > double-click to run the installer.
- >
- > PC: Read the documentation to figure out the command line to run
- > the installer. (By the time you've finished this step, the Mac
- > user is already finished.) Type the command line and run the
- > installer. Now you have to install the icons in the Program
- > Manager and perhaps create a new program group. Then check the
- > CONFIG.SYS, WIN.INI, and AUTOEXEC.BAT files to see what modifications
- > the installer made there. Then check every other piece of software
- > to make sure it still works with the modifications. If it doesn't,
- > call technical support and try to work out some reasonable compromise
- > in the CONFIG.SYS, WIN.INI, and AUTOEXEC.BAT that will allow both
- > programs to run.
- >
- > Bestcase time for the Mac -- a few seconds.
- > Bestcase time for the PC -- a few minutes.
- > Worstcase time for the Mac -- a few minutes.
- > Worstcase time for the PC -- several weeks.
-
- So far you've given opinions without substance. Installing software on
- a mac can be as much a chore as on a PC.
-
- Example: Symantic Antivirus for the Macintosh
-
- You have to read the instructions to install this properly because you
- have to:
- 1. Run a disk repair program to insure the hard drive is okay.
- 2. Run SAM from the diskette on the hard drive first.
- 3. Install the control panel by dragging it to the extension folder
- and making an alias which you put into the control panel folder.
- 4. Install the virus definition in the system folder.
- 5. Drag copy SAM somewhere.
- 6. Reboot
- 7. Personalise both SAM an the control panel separately the first
- time you run them.
-
- Installing software on a mac can take definitely much more than a few
- minutes, and just clicking on the installer is not enough.
-
- Example: Microsoft Word 5.0, Microsoft Excel 4.0, etc.
-
- Installing software on a PC can be just as easy as on a mac.
-
- Example: Microsoft Word for Windows, WordPerfect, MacLinkPC, etc.
-
- 1. Install diskette in to drive a and type "a:install".
-
- > >Anyone can see that macs have their share of problems by browsing
- > >through the comp.sys.mac hierarchy.
- >
- > Anyone who understands what he's reading will also understand
- > that most of those problems arise from INITs that do sophisticated
- > things, like replacing the standard window definitions, that you
- > can't even do in Windows on the PC.
- >
- >
- > >If you respond to this post, please list the system you bought and
- > >how much you paid for it. It shows what you actually have to back your
- > >views.
- >
- > Very well. This is what I've spent over the last two years:
- >
- > Mac IIsi/40M HD/Apple RGB Monitor $3000
- > FPU adapter card 75
- > Upgrade to 17M RAM 400
- > External 100M HD 400
- > 32-bit color board 300
- > CD-ROM drive 300
- > Developer's CD (500M+ of documentation,
- > tools, sample code, etc., updated
- > quarterly) $36/yr.
- > 12 Voyager CD ROMs $90
- > Hypercard, Quicktime, System Software Free
- > MacRayshade, NIH Image Free
- >
- > Plus a few hundred dollars for commercial software packages.
- > All prices are rounded off since I'm doing them from memory.
- >
- >
- > >It may also show that you had much more money than I had to spend.
- > >In which case, there should be no need for everybody yelling their heads
- > >off because I too would buy a mac if I had that much money to spare.
- >
- > Except that your claim was not that you can't afford a Mac because
- > you don't have enough money. It was that if you had enough money
- > to afford a Mac, you could get a better PC for the same price.
-
- No. My claim has always been that Macintosh cost too much, and I can get
- (and have gotten) an equivalent PC based system to do the same work I do
- on a mac at a significantly lower price. You have been pushing extras
- that the mac gives like ADB, stereo sound, etc. which I admit are nice to
- have but are meaningless at the price Apple charges. The macintosh is a
- nicer machine than the PC, but is it worth 2 to 3 times the price of a
- corresponding PC? In my opinion, no. But you've got yours, and having
- a larger wallet helps support your opinions.
-