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snadlc-minutes-94dec.txt
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CURRENT_MEETING_REPORT_
Reported by Shannon Nix/Metaplex
Minutes of the SNA DLC Services MIB Working Group (SNADLC)
The SNADLC working group convened for two meetings in San Jose at the
31st IETF on 6 and 7 December.
Agenda
The following agenda was established at the beginning of the first
meeting:
o Review Progress since last IETF
o SDLC MIB Module Status
o Present Overview of the LLC MIB Module
o Identify Architectural Issues for the LLC MIB Module
o Preview Results of the LLC MIB Module Teleconference
o Execute a Detailed MIB walkthrough
o Formulate a near-term schedule to advance the work
Review of Progress Since 30th IETF
o SDLC MIB has been submitted to the IESG
o There are two Internet-Drafts of the LLC MIB
o An interim meeting was held at AIW #6 in October
o There was a LLC MIB teleconference in November
o Steve Berl is a new co-editor
SDLC MIB Module Status
The Internet-Draft, draft-ietf-snadlc-sdlc-mib-06.txt, has been
submitted to the IESG. The trap error was fixed and the document
resubmitted. Comments from the IESG have been resolved. Feedback was
received from John Palombo.
What is the procedure for saving comments on the SDLC MIB going forward?
They need to be saved going forward for the next cut of the SDLC MIB
draft. The editor, Wayne Clark, is to maintain the ``to do'' list of
the SDLC MIB and to: post it periodically to snadlcmib@cisco.com and
maintain it in ftp.cisco.com.
LLC MIB Overview
Shannon Nix presented an overview of the LLC MIB. Salient points of the
table structure is: there are three categories of tables in the LLC
MIB, just like there was for the SDLC MIB: Admin, Oper and Stats; and
there are three components that are managed via the LLC MIB:
Component Index
llcPort ifIndex
llcSap ifIndex, llcSapNumber
llcCc ifIndex, LSap, RMac, RSap, LMac
(Note: LMac is last because it is normally
constant for a particular value of ifIndex.)
What is in each table:
o llcPortAdminTable (read-write)
- status
- default LLC2 parameters
o llcPortOperTable (read-only)
- status
o llcPortStatsTable (read-only)
- LLC1 and LLC2 statistics summary
o llcSapAdminTable (read-write)
- status
- default LLC2 parameters
o llcSapOperTable (read-only)
o llcCcAdminTable (read-write)
- status
- LLC2 parameters (desired)
o llcCcOperTable (read-only)
- status
- LLC2 parameters (actual)
- last fail information
Identification of LLC MIB Module Issues
1. Event log for the connection component (Cc) has gone away (per AIW
#6 meeting) in lieu of keeping the CcEntry around for some period
of time or until after some event occurs (implementation defined).
2. Traps for a Cc status change need to be dampened since a port can
have lots of Ccs. This was not a big problem with the SDLC MIB
since a serial port has significantly fewer link stations.
3. A Sap statistics summary at the Port level is missing.
4. llc*AdminIPDUSend and llc*AdminIPDURcv need to be changed to
llc*AdminPDU.
5. Revisit the INTEGER usage. Jeff Johnson recommended changing
INTEGER to Integer32 (range..range) where possible.
Over the course of the meetings, the following issues were identified
and action items were assigned for contributions in their area:
o The Never-ending Connection Component Index Issue (Ongoing)
1. Is it possible to use ifIndex to model virtual interfaces?
Shannon Nix says RFC 1573 is flexible enough to
model virtual interfaces.
2. For frame relay, you do not have a (LMac,RMac) but you have a
DLCI instead.
Shannon says to use DLCI in lieu of LMac for frame relay.
3. Everyone agreed to defer further discussion of indexing
this this horse is dead.
o Identification of Compliance Groups (Pierre Lin)
1. An SDLC MIB comment from Peter Gayek was that some of the
SDLC objects were not in any of the conformance statements.
Was this an omission? Deidre Kostick wants to
investigate and get back to the working group.
2. Consensus was that the LLC MIB had to achieve stability before
coming up with conformance statements.
3. Conformance statements are needed for LLC1 implementations,
LLC2 implementations, and implementations that provide both
LLC1 and LLC2. Pierre Lin to submit a proposal.
o Identification of a Row Creation Paradigm for Connections (and
SAPs?) (Ravi Subramanian)
1. Contributions from the working group are needed for row creation.
Ravi Subramanian to submit a proposal to the working group.
o Identification of TRAPs and association TRAP paradigm (Ravi
Subramanian)
1. Contributions from the working group are needed for the Trap model.
We want to use Ravi Subramanian to submit a proposal to
the working group.
o Clarification of MIB's Relationship to Other (Competing?)
Administrative Focal Points (cisco)
1. Data link control can be managed via SNMP (i.e., the implications
of this working group) or by data link users that make use of the
DLCs (e.g., APPN). We need to have some text in the MIB that
provides guidelines on this shared control. Wayne Clark or
Steve Berl (both cisco) to submit a proposal to the working
group.
LLC MIB Conference Call Minutes
Several group members participated in a conference call in November at
which time a number of contributions to the MIB were discussed and
incorporated. The following members participated: Alan Bartky, Steve
Berl, Wayne Clark, Shannon Nix, and Ravi Subramanian.
Contributions (posted earlier on the net) from the following members
were discussed and incorporated into the draft which was reviewed at the
San Jose IETF: Alan Bartky - LLC Contributions; Steve Berl - LLC
Contributions; Jeff Johnson - SNMP Contributions.
LLC MIB Module Walkthrough
The lastest document, draft-ietf-snadlc-llc-mib-02.txt, was then
reviewed in detail. The MIB module's tables were reviewed in the
following order:
o llcCcAdminTable
o llcCcStatsTable
o llcSapStatsTable
o llcSapOperTable
o llcCcOperTable
o llcSapAdminTable
o llcPortAdminTable
o llcPortOperTable
o llcPortStatsTable
o The llcCcAdminTable Walkthrough
1. llcCcAdminEntry: we need to have text that describes the ordering
of the index since it is not intuitive to the uninitiated :-).
This text should be in both the Overview of the MIB and in the
DESCRIPTION of llcCcAdminEntry. Editor to solicit text from
Alan Bartky since he had a good description
of the indexing earlier.
2. llcCcAdminStatus: nuke the object. It was agreed that the
administrative control of a connection's status was the domain
of the data link user and that this group should not invent
another ``data link interface'' by which this is done.
3. llcCcAdminMaxIPDUOctetsSend: some errors in the DESCRIPTION.
Consensus was that llcCcAdminMaxIPDUOctetsSend and
llcCcAdminMaxIPDUOctetsRcv should be collapsed into a single
object called llcCcAdminMaxIPDUOctets.
Shannon Nix to submit IEEE verbage (which concisely
defines which octets constitute an IPDU) to include into the
DESCRIPTION.
4. llcCcAdminAckTimer, llcCcAdminPbitTimer, llcCcAdminRejTimer:
these objects are not in all implementations of LLC2 and are
therefore candidates for MIN-ACCESS clauses in the conformance
statements. Some implementations provide a single timer for
these, T1. These implementations shall take advantage of the
fact the the MIN-ACCESS clause of ``read-only'' shall be included
on all administrative objects allow setting of T1 only through
AckTimer. Getting of any of these objects should return T1.
We need a volunteer to provide text for the DESCRIPTION for
these objects.
Ravi Subramanian is to review the Token Ring Architecture
Reference manual and submit appropriate ranges on the TimeTicks.
5. llcCcAdminInactTimer: add Ti into the DESCRIPTION field.
o The llcCcStatsTable Walkthrough
1. llcCcStatsLocalBusies, llcCcStatsRemoteBusies: fix the DESCRIPTION
to be in terms of llcCcOperState values. Steve Berl to
contribute.
There was discussion about having llcCcStatsSFramesIn/Out to go
along with the existing llcCcStatsIFramesIn/Out so that a
network management operator could get a ratio of I-Frames to
S-Frames. This could be used for tuning the ack-timer in order
to increase link efficiency.
2. llcCcStatsIOctetsIn/Out: Shannon Nix to offer text to
enhance the DESCRIPTION to identify exactly what the I-Frame covers
per the IEEE specification. This also affects llcCcAdminIPDUOctets.
3. llcCcStatsRetransmitsIn: Steve Berl to look into the Token
Ring Architecture Reference manual to enhance the text in the
DESCRIPTION.
4. The following counters were eliminated:
llcCcStatsFRMRsIn/Out
llcCcStatsDISCsIn/Out
llcCcStatsUAsIn/Out
llcCcStatsDMsIn/Out
llcCcStatsSABMEsIn/Out
llcCcStatsProtocolErrs
llcCcStatsActivityTOs
llcCcStatsRetriesExps
The reason for eliminating them from this table is that many of them
will count to, at most, one before the table row goes away. The
useful information reflected in these objects shall be summarized
at the SAP statistics level.
5. The following new objects in llcCcStatsTable were proposed:
(a) the number of times the window was slammed and
(b) the number of times that T1 expires.
o The llcSapStatsTable Walkthrough
1. llcSapStatsTESTsIn/Out: we need to have TEST command/response and
in/out for a total of 4 objects. Ravi Subramanian to submit.
2. llcSapStatsXIDsIn/Out: add text to DESCRIPTION to say that this
XID includes: SNA XID, IEEE XID, null XID, and non-activation
XIDs.
Likewise, we need to have XID command/response and in/out for a
total of 4 objects. Ravi Subramanian to submit.
3. New object: llcSapStatsUIOctetsIn/Out needed for counting UI frames
only (does not include TEST or XID). Shannon Nix to
submit.
4. We need to have a Cc statistics summary: for:
(a) number of successful connections: SABME/UA
(b) number of unsuccessful connections: SABME/DM or SABME/timeout
(c) number of normal disconnections: DISC/UA
(d) number of abnormal disconnections: FRMR
(e) number of abnormal disconnections: timer expiration (N2, BusyTimer)
(f) number of resets
Note that for (c) and (e), normal versus abnormal is a matter of
perspective of local versus remote.
Shannon Nix to submit (f) and Wayne Clark to
submit (a) thru (e).
5. Have a trap for Sap going away so a network management station can
gather llcSapStatsTable before the row goes away.
o The llcSapOperTable Walkthrough
1. New object: need to have the number of active Ccs on a Sap.
Ravi Subramanian to submit.
o The llcCcOperTable Walkthrough
1. llcCcOperRole: delete this object.
2. llcCcOperState: enhance the DESCRIPTION to say that the Cc
``will be allowed to transition to normal(3) or aDM(1).''
3. llcCcOperNw and llcCcOperWw objets: get submission from Steve Berl.
4. Several objects in llcCcOperTable need to have have the DESCRIPTION
augmented to indicate that, for dynamic Ccs, ``modified'' means
``created''
5. llcCcOperLastFailTime: use IEEE state names in the DESCRIPTION
wherever possible. In this case, say ``the last time that
llcCcOperState transitioned to aDM(1).'' Also, ``return 0 if
never in aDM(1).''
6. llcCcOperLastFailCause: need to check the values against the list.
Ravi Subramanian to submit.
Per Shannon Nix, retriesExpired, dmRecevied, and
some other values should be deleted.
o The llcSapAdminTable Walkthrough
1. llcSapAdminNumber: should have an access of `not-accessible' since
it is an index for llcSapAdminTable.
2. llcSapAdminMaxIPDUOctetsSend/Rcv: collapse into llcSapAdminMaxPDUOctets
and provide text to say that it includes I-Frames, UI-Frames, XIDs,
and TESTs.
3. General llcSapAdminTable issue: the default LLC parameters of this
table will be revisited and DEFVALs assigned as soon as
contributions are submitted and discussed for llcCcAdminTable.
(Once the llcCcAdminTable objects are stable, most of these
objects will be promoted to llcSapAdminTable with only minor
changes in the DESCRIPTION.)
o The llcPortAdminTable Walkthrough
1. llcPortAdminMaxIPDUOctetsSend/Rcv: collapse into
llcPortAdminMaxPDUOctets and provide text to say that it includes
I-Frames, UI-Frames, XIDs, and TESTs.
2. General llcPortAdminTable issue: same issue as with llcSapAdminTable
above. The default LLC parameters of this table will be
revisited and DEFVALs assigned as soon as contributions are
submitted and discussed for llcCcAdminTable. (Once the
llcCcAdminTable objects are stable, most of these objects will
be promoted to llcSapAdminTable with only minor changes in the
DESCRIPTION.)
3. New object: need to have the maximum number of SAPs and Ccs on
a port. Ravi Subramanian to submit object definitions.
o The llcPortOperTable Walkthrough
1. llcPortOperName and llcPortOperLastModifyTime: nuke both of
these objects. This leaves llcPortOperTable empty. Keep it
around as a placeholder.
o The llcPortStatsTable Walkthrough
1. Remove all objects from llcPortStatsTable and place them into
llcSapStatsTable. Keep llcPortStatsTable around as a placeholder
until things are more stable.
Where Do We Go from Here?
The group formulated the following short term schedule to advance the
work:
o Post minutes of the San Jose IETF -- 12/16/94 :-)
o Post draft-ietf-snadlc-llc-mib-02.5.txt -- 12/16/95 (oops)
o Action item contributions due -- 01/03/95
o Discussion of contributions complete -- 01/17/95
o draft-ietf-snadlc-llc-mib-03.txt -- 01/20/95
o Teleconference to review draft 3 -- 02/03/95
o Contributions from teleconference -- 02/17/95
o draft-ietf-snadlc-llc-mib-04.txt -- 03/01/95
o Review draft 4 -- Boston IETF