8bitfiles.net/archives/archives.tar/archives/genie-commodore-file-library/Information/DEMOINETCONF.TXT

Text File | 2019-04-13 | 20.9 KB | 477 lines

 <C> 1994 by GEnie
 ==========================================================================
 This file is brought to you by The Commodore 64/128 RoundTable on GEnie

 This file may be published or excerpted in User Group newsletters
 providing credit is given in this manner:

 "Copyright 1994 by GEnie  From the Commodore 64/128 RoundTable File#:#####"

 This file maybe be distributed, if distributed whole and unaltered, on
 non-profit BBSs or non-profit networks.

 For more information on GEnie call by modem:
 1-800-638-8369  (8-N-1 300/1200/2400)
 Enter: HHH
 Then reply: xtx99018,commrt
 Then enter:  Commodore

 And enjoy!
 ==========================================================================

<Eddie> Ok, tonight we have a double header...

        First up is Elwix from the demo goup Style
        After he is done,we will take a short break then move on the Coolhand
        for the Internet part of our conference

        Basically, we are going to do a demo-review for 1995.
        Approximatley how many demos (NTSC) were released in 1995?

<Elwix> Well, pretty much, 25 I guess. Starting in early 95...  there were
        Morbid/FOE - great, big megademo; Canadian Bacon - really cool effect,
        plasma-inside logo is best way to describe it; Guilty/Arcane - nice
        art! Animated (slightly) pic of Lance Ito, a bit funny

        Moving on a bit into the year, I could say, Gold/Style was well
        received, not really hardcore, but at least very funny   ;)

        lesse...  Tears '95 was quite good. Maybe you can call it the
        'sleeper demo' of 95. You really need to see it, but it's a nice
        different approach to demos.

<Eddie> I really enjoyed that one.

<Elwix> I think it may appeal to a wider audience than the 'typical' demo!
        Lets see...  Martyr/Time was pretty decent; Vengeance/FOE was also a
        great demo; another megademo (there are hardly any megademos these
        days, but FOE deleivered so well in 95)

        I believe those were the major standouts. If you only watch a 2 or 3
        demos, pick from those, but ya oughta watch all of them anyway ;)

<Eddie> Were there many NTSC Fixed demos released in 95?

<Elwix> Yep, but the only ones doing this were Style. Lesse I think maybe 10 or
        so. That's demos, and a couple tools I think.

        Little note - fixing is a much needed job! There's still SOOO many
        european demos released, or euro tools that would be worthwile having
        NTSC users use so if anyone wanted to try it, your could really help
        the scene  ;)

<Eddie> Are there any current fixes you're working on?

<Elwix> I fixed a couple little things at the end of 95. I got 2 or 3
        parties worth (Euro parties that's meant) disks full of winning gfx
        entries, maybe 10 or 12 pictures in all, in IFLI (beautiful gfx
        format !). I'd suggest people view these two, since the gfx
        resolution is amazing for a c64. You'll be shocked if you havn't seen
        these before!

<Eddie> Finally, what can we expect from Style in the next couple months?

<Elwix> Well, I just released the demo coding tool Wix Bouncer v5.0. In
        a month perhaps we'll release our version of Turbo Macro Assembler for
        the REU, what ought to be the very best version of Turbo made yet.
        (I use it to code, myself)

        Finally, we are working on a music demo, or two, one of which will
        feature tunes with digi-samples mixed in. And there's always one or two
        demos we're working on. It's hard finished stuff these days. We just
        move a bit slower  :/    but those will get out sooner or later this
        year!

<Eddie> Buff Phoon, our resident clown, has a question.

<Buff Phoon> What is/are these "demos" that you are talking about?  Some of us
             may not know exactly what is being discussed here, like me!

<Elwix> Well, a demo, is basically (my words here) an expression of creativity,
        something artistic I think. Well technically, just a collection of gfx,
        music, and visual effects that run on your c64

        If you look at the c64 'underground' scene, you might classify the
        old software houses (Epyx, ECA) as the big business corporation, the
        pirates as the organized mafia and the demo makers as the rockstars on
        the c64 world   ;)

<Eddie> All the 64 Demos on Genie are in library #18, take a look after the
        conference!

<Elwix> Demos are kind of the equivilant of computer rock videos, some show off
        many unrelated but still eye-pleasing effects. Some others concentrate
        with one small effect, they are music or gfx collections (usually
        slideshow like formats)

        And there are diskmagazines - basically, the 'mass media'. Like Driven
        + collection of articles, editorial, news, and all around scene
        information.

<Coolhand> Demos are basically art and entertainment..  but there is sometimes
           a message too..  like Tears '95

<Elwix> yeah - some demos can certainly approach for a deeper meaning.

<Coolhand> Demos are also a means for coders and artists to show there skills
           and to demonstrate new techniques for the 64.

<Eddie> Idaho Doug has a question.

<Idaho Doug> What is NTSC?

<Elwix> Alright, NTSC is some acronym for (I think) Northamerican Television
        Standard or something.

        NTSC basically means the video output of our monitors here in
        North/South America. PAL is the counterpart format used in Europe.

        What this means to us, is that c64 softwre really runs different on PAL
        and NTSC machines the timing is a little bit off; different. And this
        causes many problems with critically timed demo effects.

        So if you've ever downloaded something from europe, and there's
        flicker, or it crashes, or the music sounds slower than it should,
        that's because the European, coded his software for PAL machines.
        Running that software under NTSC, causes the problems

        NTSC fixing is the 'art' of changing the software to work properly on
        NTSC machines.

<Eddie> Basically the first part is just a quick review.  If anyone has a lot           of demo related questions, check in library #33 for our last demo
        conference, which explains this stuff in basic terms.

<Eddie> Ok..I'm going to open the floor, we'll take a short break, and the
        internet part of our conference will begin shortly...

<Buff Phoon> Is any special software needed to run these demos?

<Elwix> Buff - no, the demos run on their own...  they just load and run off
        the disk

<Idaho Doug> Where is WIX BOUNCE V5 and does it have doc's?

<Eddie> The Wix Bouncer hasn't been released here yet, look for it in a few
        days.

<Elwix> Has anyone here seen demos, or read Driven?

<Tim> I've seen some demos.

<Idaho Doug> I've seen some demo's and was always amazed how they were made.
             I've always wondered if they could be used in another program for
             special effects.

<Tim> By the way, I get the impressionn "demos" aren't demonstrations despite
      the term "demos. "Why are they called "demos"?

<Elwix> Tim - yeah good question...   well, I guess the roots were in
        demonstration. Perhaps the same time demos were rsing the term demo
        became also well used for commercial demonstration software.

        Demos might better be called computer videos...  or multimedia art! ;)

<Eddie> I've noticed that commercial demos are now called previews

<Buff Phoon> Is Driven in the libraries?  How/Where does one get Driven?

<Eddie> Buff Phoon, they are in library #18.  Issues 1-10 are there.  #11 will
        be shortly

<Elwix> Idaho - demos themselves aren't real usable. or reusable, they stand
        alone unless maybe you can get the source code with the demos. Then you
        could reuse the effects to some extent

<Coolhand> Or of a group's collective skill. I think 'demo' may have first
           meant a demonstration of a coder's skill.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<Eddie> We are now starting our Internet part of this conference.

        Here is our C= internet expert, Coolhand.

<Coolhand> hmmm  :-)

<Eddie> hehe

<Elwix> <applause>

<Coolhand> we're in trouble now...  :-)

<Eddie> Ok..first off - Can a C= users 'surf the net'?

<Coolhand> Sure he can..  You think the C= machines are incapable or something?

           With a C= one can experience and participate in a great deal of
           the net. This includes using search engines, transferring files, and
           visiting Web sites (minus the graphics on the pages).

<Eddie> What is the best term. program for accesing the net with a 64?

<Coolhand> I use Novaterm 9.5 from Nick Rossi.  It gives you 80 columns, vt102
           emulation, and a choice of MANY file xfer protocols (including z-
           modem receive).

           Aceterm (part of Craig Bruces's excellent ACE package) is also very
           nice I am told, although I have never tried it myself. In addition
           to the term program, a baud rate greater than 2400 is useful, but
           not required.

<Eddie> I see all this SLIP/PPP/IP/SHELL accounts. What type of account should
        a C= user get?

<Coolhand> Generally, the C= user should look for a shell account, since there
           is very little software for the C= to work with a SLIP/PPP account
           (such a Net Browsers for other machines use). But believe it or not,
           there is NOW a demo package of software to implement a PPP process
           on a c64 which includes Telnet and IRC!  Although the package is
           preliminary at this time, it IS usable and is likely to expand in
           its functionality in the future.

<Eddie> What is a shell account?

<Coolhand> A shell account is basically a text-based account where you type
           commands at a prompt.  A variation of this is a menu-driven account
           that gives you access to various Internet functions by in some way
           selecting from choices provided.  Many ISPs offer a mix or choice of            commands or menus.

<Eddie> How can I download files from the internet?

<Coolhand> Using the common net utility FTP, available on ANY net site, you can
           xfer files from an FTP site anywhere in the world to your local net
           provider.

           From there you must use one of the protocols available on both your
           site and your local term program to d/l the file(s) from your site
           to your own C= machine.  This protocol could be X-modem, Y-modem, or
           even Kermit.  Novaterm 9.5 even includes Z-modem  receive.

<Eddie> What is a FTP site?

<Coolhand> Well, an FTP site is a particular "node" (address or location) on
           the Internet that has a collection of files that may be xfered to
           your own Internet site.  It may be run by a University, a commercial
           company, or any of several other organizations for various reasons.
           A site that offers files to the public will use what is called
           "anonymous" FTP, which allows net users to 'log on" to a site
           by just using his local email address as his password. No previous
           application or set-up is required to access files from an
           "anonymous" FTP site.

EDITORS NOTE: FTP Stands for - File Tranfer Protocol

<Eddie> About how many FTP sites have C= software?

<Coolhand> Wow - hard to say.  Quite a few in total..  maybe 6-8 really big
           ones that make frequent additions to their file collections.  More
           sites are being added all the time.  Many of these sites are
           beginning to replace regular BBSs as the usual means of "releasing"
           new C= software. (Yes, there really is NEW C= software still being
           written.  :-)

           There is a list posted frequently on the Computer Systems CBM
           (C.S.C) Usenet newsgroup of all the known C= FTP sites.

<Eddie> Can you list a few of the more popular ones?

<Elwix> ftp.eskimo.com   in   (tilde)tpinfo/  !!!

<Coolhand> Here are some that I think have some of the best collections.  I may
           have forgotten or not be aware of some, and I certainly apologize if
           I have:

           utopia.hacktic.nl  /pub/c64
           dhp.com   /pub/c64
           nic.funet.fi   /pub/cbm
           ccnga.uwaterloo.ca   /pub/cbm
           bbs.cc.uniud.it   /pub/c64
           ftp.giga.or.at   /pub/c64
           ftp.cs.tu-berlin.de   /pub/c64

EDITORS NOTE: The "/" means directory

<Eddie> What is the World Wide Web?

<Coolhand> Very briefly, the World Wide Web is a portion of the Internet - even
           a feature of it, one might say - which as been organized into "http
           addresses" referred to as "pages".  Each address may consist of one
           or more pages. A page is a logical grouping of information, which
           may consist of text, graphics, possibly even music, and usually
           includes references (or "links") to other pages, either at the same
           site, or at other sites.

           It is the links to other pages that really create the "web" topology
           in the WWW context.

<Eddie> Can a C= user view full color graphic pages?

<Coolhand> To my knowledge, there are no Web "browsers", to use the usual term
           for the program that looks at Web pages, for the c64 that allow the
           transfer of the graphics portion of a page.

           There is a utility available at most Unix provider sites that allows
           a user to retrieve the text portion of pages, including the links to
           other pages.

           This utility is called "Lynx", not to be confused with the utility
           that handles .lnx files on the C=.  Thus, with Lynx the C= user has
           access to all the core data on web sites, even if he does miss some
           of the glamour that graphics provides.

<Eddie> Are there many C= web pages?

<Coolhand> There seem to be a multitude of C= pages, each specializing in some
           aspect of the C= community, and each with LOTS of links to other
           pages.  Yes, many of the links are redundant, but, as I mentioned
           earlier, this is the "Web" nature of World Wide Web which carries
           through the "no single thread" nature of the Internet architecture.

           I was amazed when I started exploring the Web a couple months ago at
           not only the number of C= pages, but at the diversity and quality of
           the offerings. It's truly exciting to start with a page or two and
           then explore the links in any manner that interests you.

<Eddie> Can you list a few of your favorites?

<Coolhand> As I said, I actually just started to explore the Web pages, but
           here are some of the useful addresses (or pages) that I have found
           so far:

           http://www.msen.com/>brain/cbmlinks.html
           http://www-und.ida.liu.se/>q95henra/links.html
           http://stud1.tuwien.ac.at/>e9426444/sidlinks.html
           http://www.hut.fi/>msmakela/cbm/cbm-users.html
           http://stekt.oulu.fi/>mysti/thesharks
           http://www.cs.tu-berlin.de/>poing/english/padua/index.html

           Remember, all the sites listed contain links to many other sites.

<Eddie> Is there anything like this conference room on the net where I can talk
        to some of my friends?

<Coolhand> Oh, yes..  One of the most amazing and useful (in my opinion)
           aspects of the net is the feature called "Internet Relay Chat" or
           IRC for short.

           It is much like the "rooms" here, but IRC is made up of hundreds of
           "channels" (same as rooms) with many thousands of users (11,000
           people on 4,000 channels the last time I was on).  One added aspect
           of IRC is that it is WORLDWIDE, like the net. You can meet and get
           to know C= users from Finland and Russia down to Australia and New
           Zealand and almost everywhere in between.

           There is far too much about IRC to describe here;  but I wrote an
           article on IRC for Issue 10 of C= Hacking (part of it was also in
           Driven), available here on Genie, which goes into much of the
           information that a new user might be interested in.

<Eddie> Is there a place for C= users to meet?

<Coolhand> Sure..  the channel is called #c-64.  All you have to do is type
           " /join #c-64 " and " /who #c-64 " to join the channel and see who
           is on.  That channel has become the accepted meeting place for
           almost all C= users around the world.

           There are also other special channels that are formed from time to
           time for group discussions or special topics, but #c-64 is always
           there and almost always active. I think the #c-64 channel on
           IRC has been a BIG factor in the continued existence, and even re-
           growth, of the C= scene.

<Eddie> What if I don't have an IRC client on my shell acount?

<Coolhand> Well, the source code for IRC-II (the most common IRC client for
           Unix) is available on ftp.cs.bu. It can be d/l and compiled on your
           site. Or you can find a public IRC server and telnet to it. I
           covered this topic in my article in C= Hacking #10 available here on
           Genie.

<Eddie> Is there anything like the bulliten board on Genie on the net where I
        can get help from other C= users or post messages?

<Coolhand> Yes there is. It's called Usenet, available on almost all provider
           sites.

           Usenet has thousands of topics and threads on almost any subject you
           can think of. And again, it is worldwide. I believe that Usenet is
           also available on Genie. If not, or if Usenet is not available on
           your ISP, you can still post messages to it through email. I don't
           remember the exact site.. but email me if you need the name and I
           will find it for you.   ([e-mail])

EDITORS NOTE: You can get to the USENET Newsgroups through Genie, via Lynx or                 Gopher. A news server is still being worked on and may be open to
              general use. Please check with the Internet Helpdesk on page
              1405;2 - Open 7 days 9pm - ?

<Eddie> If I remember the email site it is [e-mail] or
        [e-mail]

<Coolhand> Your right, Eddie..   thanks..  :-)

EDITORS NOTE: You must use " - " instead of " . " when using an email site.
              Also - CS.UTEXAS.EDU is no longer taking email to newsgroups.

<Eddie> Are there any newsgroups for C= users?

<Coolhand> The two most popular newgroups for C= users are comp.sys.cbm (the
           most widespread and read) and comp.emulators.cbm which has a wealth
           of information on C= emulators for various platforms.

           There is a LOT of information passed on these newsgroups. They are
           well, worth following.

<Eddie> How can I read the messages on these newsgroups?

<Coolhand> very carefully...  there are several news readers available on most
           sites. I use "tin". That is one of the most popular. There are help
           files on most sites.  :-)

<Eddie> Is there anything else a C= user should know about or be able to access
        on the net ?

<Coolhand> I'm sure there is..  The net seems to be popping with surprises all
           the time.  C= people can, of course, access and d/l all the issues
           of Driven, which usually contain an article or two on some feature
           of the Net. :-)

<Coolhand> Most of the sites I mentioned above have the Driven editions, I
           think. Anyone is welcome to email me at [e-mail] also,
           and I will be glad to give you more information or email you some
           Drivens (end commercial).  :-)

<Eddie> Tim Phelps has a question

<Tim> I've read the Usenet post-by-e-mail has been discontinued.
<
Coolhand> at all sites?  hmm  I was not aware of that.

<Coolhand> well, all news reader allow you to post to the group OR send private
           email to the author of a post

<Eddie> I'll have to look into that...any more questions?

<Eddie> I'd like to thank Elwix and Coolhand for taking time out their busy
        schedules to join us here tonight.  I hope that evereryone learned from
        the Inet info.

<Coolhand> thanks for asking me, Eddie...

<Elwix> No problem, glad to spread the demo-mania  ;)

<Tim> As I mentioned to you coolhand, the usenet post-by-emial at cs.utexas.edu
      has been shut down

<Eddie> Anyone interested in seeing 'demos', they are available in library #18.

        Is the uk site still up, Tim?

<Tim> I haven't tried it.

<Buff Phoon> Eddie, good questions!  Coolhand, thanks and I've "captured" all
             of this to print out and re-read.  Thanks again to both of you.

<Coolhand> Where are the Driven's Eddie?

<Eddie> In Library #18