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************ Topic 13 Thu Oct 15, 1992 R.KNOP1 [Rob Knop] (Forwarded) Sub: RUN, RIP It's gone. 34 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 1 Thu Oct 15, 1992 R.KNOP1 [Rob Knop] (Forwarded) This just in on comp.sys.cbm: Newsgroups: comp.sys.cbm From: randy@athena.mit.edu (Randall W Winchester) Keywords: RUN, Magazine, kaput Date: Wed, 14 Oct 1992 21:26:24 GMT I got two pieces of mail today from RUN. One was the November/December 1992 issue. At 48 pages, it's looking pretty scrawny, but otherwise contains good up-to-date information on CMD's new 3.5 inch disk drives. I also received a letter, from which I quote: =========================================================================== October 9, 1992 Dear Commodore Marketer, TechMedia Publishing will discontinue publication of RUN Magazine. The November/December 1992 issue is the last one. This was a difficult business decision, based primarily on tough economics involved with publishing in such a mature market. RUN always was and still is highly regarded by the C-64/128 community and we regret that we will no longer be able to serve this market. =========================================================================== The letter then gives a phone number for advertisers to call if they have further questions. It is signed by the Advertising Sales Representative. Let's see . . . that leaves COMPUTE with its Gazette section - usually only 20 or so pages, and Twin Cities with its erratic publication schedule. LOAD*STAR still publishes a disk magazine and recently released issue #100. Other than user group newsletters (I'm not knocking newsletters - some of them are pretty good) what other Commodore magazines are being published? Are there English language magazines published in Europe or Australia? Randy ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 2 Thu Oct 15, 1992 PAUL-MB (Forwarded) On this subject, let me just say that MB (and I presume, TC-128 & 64) is not going anywhere. We (MB) intend to be here for at least THREE more years. Our schedule is now active through mid-1995; beyond that is questionable, but if we do have enough material, we will continue publishing. RUN's death marks the end of Commodore-only magazines on the newsstands. COMPUTE covers Commodore but only in an IBM wrapper; Loadstar, Loadstar 128, MB, Twin Cities, and Die Hard (a new magazine) are only through mail subscriptions. Watch for a special announcement in the MB topic (cat 15/top 3) soon. - Paul ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 3 Fri Oct 16, 1992 L.MCCLURE (Forwarded) Do you realize that with the death of RUN, the last *dedicated* 8-bit computer magazine is now gone. (I don't count A+/Incider, as it's coverage is diluted with Mac coverage now). While the hard-core and well connected (like we here <grin>) know that there are other magazines and sources of info, to the Commodore owning public at large, I fear they will now percieve the Commodore 8-bits as 'truly dead', regardless of the true facts. It's sad. ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 4 Sat Oct 17, 1992 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] (Forwarded) The biggest impact will be here in the states. Overseas they have many magazines and there is one that started up in Australia. I will be making TC-64 and TC-128 available NATION wide with ads and toll free numbers in major magazines (for now) like Computer Shopper, Computer Monthly, and TV Guide :) I am aiming to pick up all those people from RUN and more. Besides that, I have a money back policy :) Yes, it hurts the market and was sooner than expected, but it isn't the end of the 8 bit market in the states. As luck would have it I resubscribed and got my 1st and last issue all in one month ... ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 5 Sat Oct 17, 1992 CBM-ED [e.g.bell] (Forwarded) FWIW, the last issue of RUN I bought, at $4, was the one with the article on expanding the REU. IMHO, it was pap, ad a single page at that as I recall. They have been going down the tubes for a LONG time, getting thinner and thinner, cheaper paper, etc. I stopped buying it because the price could not be justified by the content, tho I have been doing this stuff long enough that it takes more to meet my needs. However, in my opinion, the issue of TC128 that had the articles (issues, I guess) on expanding the C128 were worth more page for page than the last couple years of what RUN published. Many of the programs published in later years were rehashes of what had been done before. I wish the best to TC128/64, for this reason. While John is the publisher, that has little o do with it. It is very exciting to see a magazine that has hardware, etc. for users not exactly beginners. There are fewer and fewer beginners among us because of the current situation with the computers themselves. I don't understand all of such articles, and most of them are beyond my abilities, the expanded 128 included, but if I want, I can get someone to do it for me. I REGULARLY re-read my old Transactors, and except for the size of the publication, reading TC128 gives the same satisfaction and fulfillment as the Transactor, after all these years, still gives when I read them. This predates John's ownership. There are probably a couple lessons in there. Keep the ambition tempered, and give us MEAT! I saw RUN going downhill 2 years ago, and you can find messages in this BB to that effect if you dig. I didn't support them with subscriptions, tho, just for the sake of keeping them afloat. If it is not quality, it probably is better off a part of history. Long live TC128, TC64, MicroBytes, C64 Alive, C28 Alive, Light Disk, Hacking, etc. ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 6 Sat Oct 17, 1992 CBM-MARK (Forwarded) I notice most everybody is calling RUN the last 'dedicated' Commodore 8 bit magazine. Gee, I always thought TC128, TC64, MicroBytes, etc >are< 'dedicated' CBM 8-bit mags and they're still going strong and quite possibly stronger if former RUN subscribers can be won over. ;) Best of luck to TC and the nation wide ad campaign! re: 1st and last issue lol! You too John? I'm not sure if they even cashed my renewal check yet :/ ▐▐Mark▐▐ ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 7 Sat Oct 17, 1992 PAUL-MB (Forwarded) Mark, if I said "dedicated" and I did :) I meant the last dedicated NEWSSTAND C= magazine. And yes, MB, TC, et al are dedicated ;) - Paul :) ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 8 Sat Oct 17, 1992 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] (Forwarded) Ed, "I didn't support them with subscriptions, tho, just for the sake of keeping them afloat. If it is not quality, it probably is better off a part of history." I agree 100%. I have never believed in the "pity" approach for selling products including magazines and shareware. Either produce something that compels people to buy or give it away for free :) I had considered the newstand approach but having to extend 90 day credit is a real bummer. I have been "burned" by various companies in the past and SSI still owes me $40+ for my Comp#1 books for which they never paid. It is even worse getting the money from big distributors who consider you nothing more a flyspeck. Also, the "take" you get from the issues sold on newstands is around 25%. Considering you have to over produce issues by the tens of thousands and then take back returns on a 120 day plan, it isn't profitable for anyone but the big players. The IRS also changed the rules on "scrap" so you can't resell older issues for less money, cheaper to shred them. That's why I am content to stay small AND stay in business vs. trying to make the big break. TC-128 has been a drain, but at least I know if I do go out of business for whatever reason (hit by a truck?) I can repay all subscriptions. I think it is criminal for magazines to take money from readers, spent it on whatever they spend it on, and then tell people basically "tough luck". ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 9 Sun Oct 18, 1992 CBM-ED [e.g.bell] (Forwarded) ye, my point about supporting for the sake of having the around was based on remarks I had seen made to the effect that we had better support them or.... The cream rises to the top. If they didn't cut it, it was because they didn't know how to cut it or they didn't give people what they wanted. Probably a little of both, but I won't miss them because they gave me, as an experienced user, nothing to miss. ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 10 Fri Oct 23, 1992 CBM-MARK (Forwarded) Looks like I really lucked out! Seems when my wife sent the renewal notice for me with RUN mag, she didn't send in payment but instead marked it as 'bill me'. Just got the bill from RUN today thanking me with a very nice letter as how I won't regret renewing my subcription and telling me how >dedicated< they are to the support and coverage of anything C= 8-bit related. ;/ Seems RUN's billing/subcription department hasn't quite gotten the word they are out of a job :D ▐▐Mark▐▐ ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 11 Fri Oct 23, 1992 B.ENNIS1 (Forwarded) I had heard that RUN magazine's Nov./Dec. issue of this year will be the last issue to come out for that magazine? Is this true, and if so what will happen to our subscribtions? Are we to be left out in the cold? And where will I get any information? Are there other magazines out there? ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 12 Sat Oct 24, 1992 CBM-ED [e.g.bell] (Forwarded) Yes, it is true, Run is done, I hear they are making arrangements for refunds, and there is MicroBytes, TC128, TC64, Hacking, C64alive, and starting next year, C128alive, LoadStar, and others... you just have to know where to look... kind of like the early 80's. ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 13 Sat Oct 24, 1992 L.MCCLURE (Forwarded) If I left out "newstand" before "dedicated", it was a typo, as that was certainly what I meant. I am well aware Twin Cities (& Microbytes) are dedicated to the Commodore 8-bits. In fact, I need to resubscribe to TC-128 (my sub lapsed at a dark economic hour for me, and I simply keep forgetting to dig out the renewal form and send in a check now that things have gotten better. I hope I can get back issues to fill in the gap <grin>). It's too bad RUN did not have a 'sign-off' in their last issue. They could have even made mention of other Commodore magazines. Evidently, the decision to cease publication came suddenly. ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 14 Sat Oct 24, 1992 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] (Forwarded) L.M. If it soothes your mind any, I have had too many customers write about how much they want to renew but are out of work and can't afford it. Times are tough for them and me. To make it worse, Congress passed a stamp tax again (40% increase in one year!). I don't know the status yet but it certainly is a bummer. I will most likely pick up all the RUN advertisers and then some. I already have picked up a few in the last week for ads in TC64. Our magazines will be advertised nationally in all sorts of media. We will be easier to find than the Commodore Compute or RUN. So, I don't moan the loss of RUN, I only got it for the ads anyway. I look forward to the increased business and coming year. More for me :D ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 15 Sat Oct 24, 1992 PAUL-MB (Forwarded) BTW, the reason RUN didn't have a sign off is (probably) because it was a sudden decision, and the Nov/Dec issue was edited before that choice was made. We're still in negotiations, but MB may be picking up some of RUN's remnants - you'll see what I mean when/if it goes through. ;) - Paul ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 16 Mon Nov 02, 1992 R.NEAZER [ReubN] (Forwarded) Re:Subscription to TC-64 TC-128 I am interested in subscribing to TC-64 TC-128. I've been browsing the files looking for subscription info. but have not seen an addresss nor tel.# for sub- scription. Can someone post that info or E-mail... Thanks Reub...... ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 17 Mon Nov 02, 1992 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] (Forwarded) type SET 11 and 5 for a topic list. I will be posting new subscription information once I work out the new rates. We will also offer 1st class shipping to those that want it. ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 18 Tue Nov 24, 1992 G.CORREA [Ramrunner] (Forwarded) Okay, I know about LOADSTATRR, TC128/64, and MICROBYTES. Anyone want to let everyone know about 64/128 ALIVE and LIGHTDISK...? Thanks in advance. ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 19 Wed Nov 25, 1992 CBM-MARK (Forwarded) Did you look in Topic #3 of this Category(#2)? Several different magazines are mentioned in there, with subsciption info. ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 20 Fri Jan 08, 1993 RHHAYDEN (Forwarded) I never got a letter telling me RUN ceased publication. I found out from a message on my local User Group's BBS, which I read in late Dec. I wasn't a subscriber out of pity. I thought they were decent, better than the current Compute, but not as good as the late Transactor. Their editorial content was watered down (again compared to Transactor). My biggest interest was in the ads and product reviews. I would never have known about Print Perfect LQ imported by CMD, if it wasn't for the ads and review in RUN. I now own a copy of the program, and I'm happy with it. (But not 100%, a message that belongs in another CATegory ;) ) Robert Hayden ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 21 Fri Jan 08, 1993 C128.JBEE (Forwarded) I didn't get a letter eithe. ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 22 Sat Jan 09, 1993 R.PATERNOST2 [Ray] (Forwarded) I don't think anybody has gotten a letter as of yet informing them of RUN's demise. I do think that all the subscribers have by now received their skinny flyer from "Techmedia Special Products", carrying the same stuff that RUN used to advertise. I think most people will be able to interprete that as the last "issue" of RUN. I do find it quite odd that Tim Walsh did not specifically say that RUN has ceased publication in the letter on the front of the flyer. I've never actually read an issue of Transactor, but from what I've heard, nothing will_ever_ be able to match that magazine in terms of information per issue. ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 23 Sat Jan 09, 1993 C128.JBEE (Forwarded) I wouldn't exactly use _ever_, maybe "probably never" ;) ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 24 Sat Jan 09, 1993 F.OGLE [Color 64 BBS] (Forwarded) Agreed - Run was far and above the current "Comput"'s feew measly pages thatare given the 8-bit C='s... Boy, I love my old Transactors more and more nowadays - Info was a good mag too! ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 25 Sun Jan 10, 1993 C128.JBEE (Forwarded) Yea, but Compute at $9.95 for twelve issues is somewhat of a bargain. ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 26 Sun Jan 10, 1993 P.KELLER5 (Forwarded) I haven't received a notice for my refund yet, either! I better call those fools and get my 2 year subscription refund! I do subscribe to Compute, it's the best price for under $10. And so what if you have to read (like you really have to) the IBM section before you can get to the Gazette (Amiga too if you have the Multi- Edition) section. A few people have even asked to put out the Gazette separate, but then the subscription price would increase for sure because of not enough subscribers. I would like for Compute to just put the Multi-Edition in all their magazines that they sell at the stores, maybe they can get more Amiga and Commodore subscribers! ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 27 Sun Jan 10, 1993 PAUL-MB (Forwarded) My COMPUTE subscription ended in January, and I got the February IBM Edition the other day. :) Paul ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 28 Mon Jan 11, 1993 R.KNOP1 [Rob Knop] (Forwarded) PC WORLD?!?!?!?!?!?!? Whelp, got the 'ole postcard from ... well, from PC WORLD, featuring the words "Important news about you RUN subsccription." This card explains that "We'll take care of everything-- your first copy of PC WORLD will be rushed to you as soon as the issue closes." It goes on to explain that I get 1.6 issues of PC WORLD for every issue remaining in my RUN subscription. What it failed to adequately explain was why I wanted a subscription to PC WORLD.... They would be better serving their customers by saving the money of sending them the PC WORLD magazines and instead buying them TC128/64 subscriptions :) The sad thing is, though, this is likely to urge onward the exodus of 8-bit C= users to MS-DOS machines. I mean, their stalwart faithful magazine who always claimed that they'd be there for a long time to come has bowed over in favor of a PC magazine, so what are they supposed to think...? It says that if you are not 100% satisfied, you can get a full refund for the remaining issues in the subscription. Well, I figure, what the heck, it's paid for, I'll at least look over the first issue before cancelling. -Rob ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 29 Tue Jan 12, 1993 C128.JBEE (Forwarded) Its amazing how everyone wants the 8 bitters to give up their machines when we don't want to :) ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 30 Tue Jan 12, 1993 F.OGLE [Color 64 BBS] (Forwarded) Agreed, JBEE - I have this user on my bbs who was once a stalwart 8-bitter. Then he got married to a girl with a 386, and *poof* - not only does he berate the C= for what it "lacks", but he just cannot accept that we love our machines - like pilots love old planes, I guess one could say, but at any rate, he just doesn't get it - Even while he runs his Telegard bbs at 2400, and his bbs system takes 20 of his 80 meg hard drive, while us lowly 8-bitters on my bbs are stuck with a measly 9600 baud and 135 megs. Go figure :/ ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 31 Tue Jan 12, 1993 CBM-MARK (Forwarded) Got my postcard from PC WORLD today with their 'generous' offer to extend my RUN subscription with their mag :> Be interesting how many issues I get since I renewed my RUN subscription by checking that little box that says "bill me later". Luckily I found out RUN's demise a month before I got the bill. Wonder why RUN would try to bill me for a defunct magazine? Great anecdote about the BBS, Fred! :D ▐▐Mark▐▐ ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 32 Thu Jan 14, 1993 R.KNOP1 [Rob Knop] (Forwarded) I know for a point of fact that there are people who have some of these "bigger" machines and _still_ don't want to give up their 8-bits! Just because you have or use another computer doesn't mean that you have to forever annul and deny your former platform. (Computers are not like spouses!) -Rob ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 33 Thu Apr 15, 1993 R.KNIGHTS1 [Marky D Sodd] at 04:53 EDT PLEASE don't get me started about COMPUTE and its GAZETTE section which is sometimes sent seperately and sometimes not sent at all. Even when I recieve it, it's the "magazine that isn't there" Hey, boys and girls, didja' know that your C64 has a sound chip built in? It's called the SID, and here is how it works.... OH MY! I would like to see some stuff on how to transmit graphics between GEOS and IBM formats, or reviews of European games like Indy Jones and the Fate of Atlantis, done for th e 64 more than a year ago. No chance. I don't believe that the editors of GAZTTTE care any more about the 8- bit than their next paycheck reads. ------------ Category 2, Topic 13 Message 34 Sat Apr 17, 1993 C128.JBEE at 06:53 EDT I would like to inject that the editor, Tom Netsel, does care, and Compute was one of the companies that stepped in and helped make the WoC 1990 show in Valley Forge worth attending, with their booth. Not that I don't have my own peeves though :D I do think the $9.95 a year for 12 issues is a fair bargain, though C= Compute certainly isn't its former self. ------------