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************ Topic 12 Mon Apr 22, 1991 J.COLLINS5 [GeojoeC] (Forwarded) Sub: 8 mhz processors for the CBM 8 bits! I have been trying to get several Apple Hardware developers to support the Commodore. Specifically for speed up! This is an editied exchange I had with the online Rep for ZIP Technologies here on GEnie! 85 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 1 Mon Apr 22, 1991 J.COLLINS5 [GeojoeC] (Forwarded) Apple][ SIG. Catagory 22, ZIP TECHNOLOGIES support board. Topic 3 Sun Mar 31, 1991 J.COLLINS5 [GeojoeC] at 01:28 EST Sub: Zips for other 65XX based machines. ... Since the Commodore's are 6502 based it should not be to hard to create a ZIP chip for them. If your looking for market reaserch, check out the recent sales figures from Creative Micro Designs. They make a ROM replacment for the C64 and 128 to allow for faster drive access as well as a series of SCSI hard drives and a new 16 megabyte battery Backed RAm disk. I know quite a bit about them because I'm one of their beta testers. Their sales on Hard Drives, $499 for the 20 meg units and up to $1200 for 200 meg units, have recently gone through the roof! And March is usually an off season for computer sales in general as you well know! Judge for yourself, head over to the Commodore message bases and ask if they would like to see an 8 mhz proccessor! Since your ][+,e,c products sales are probably now down to a steady level, and your ][GS product is completed, it is an ideal time to take on another platform for R&D work. What better platform than another 6502 based machine with sales in the millions. Thank you for reading this tyraid. I know Apple people are very loyal to their machines just as I am to mine, but I think we 8 bitters should stick together. Please, now that you've supported Apple, lets see a Commodore product! GeojoeC ------------ Category 22, Topic 3 Message 2 Sat Apr 13, 1991 J.COLLINS5 [GeojoeC] at 23:45 EDT Gee, I know this isn't a popular topic. But do you suppose a yes/no/maybe answer could be stuck on here. If you want I can start to pile up your desks at Zip with CBM 8 bitters who want a ZIP Chip! ------------ Category 22, Topic 3 Message 3 Sun Apr 14, 1991 S.WEYHRICH [A2 4Ever!] at 08:59 EDT >>> J.COLLINS5 [GeojoeC] > But do you suppose a yes/no/maybe answer could be stuck on here. There may be no answer because no one knows (?) > If you want I can start to pile up your desks at Zip with CBM 8 bitters > who want a ZIP Chip! Perhaps US Mail will be a more effective way of making your request for C64 Zips known... Steve Weyhrich [[ Blessings Happen!! ]] ------------ Category 22, Topic 3 Message 4 Sun Apr 14, 1991 THE.ZIPPER [ Matt Ryan ] at 20:02 EDT ▄▄ J.Collins5: I spoke with the head engineer and he stated that the idea of transporting the technology of the Zip Chip to the Commodore line has been discussed by the higher-ups before. It would not be that difficult to accomplish. However, there is no plan at this time to go ahead with the conversion. Maybe a slew of letters from Commodore users WOULD be a good idea. :) -Matthew Ryan- Zip Technology ------------ So there you have! The Offical word from the Online REP is that it wouldn't be hard! But we must show demand! Spread this message to every BBS and User Group meeting you can! The more who know, the better our chances are of getting support! Best! Joe! ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 2 Tue Apr 23, 1991 C128-BILL [Bill] (Forwarded) The above B.B. messages were uploaded to this Bulletin Board with permission of the Apple ][ SysOps. We appreciate their cooperation!! OK, Commodore fans. CBM has just announced that sales of the C-64 have gone through the roof. If we can flood ZIP Technologies with a letter or FAX campaigne then they JUST MIGHT make this miracle happen! ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 3 Wed Apr 24, 1991 J.COLLINS5 [GeojoeC] at 04:11 EDT Let's make some noise folks! This ZIP reps are watching!!! This massage string could help make a difference too! ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 4 Sat Apr 25, 1992 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] at 03:34 EDT Well, we are finally going for it and I have already started to mail envelopes out for the board. Almost a year since the original post started! Because this topic is so long I am editing it down and uploading the whole unedited topic to Lib#1. Because GeojoeC (j.collins5) first started this whole thing! I am leaving only his text and this message. Mre news after the 1st of May which will be the offical starting date. If you have sent in your survey and do not receive an envelope by the second week of May then e-mail me. But not before then ... I don't want to spend all my time looking up hundreds of "ifs" when I can spend it doing something productive :) This was message #128 before the editing... ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 5 Tue Jun 02, 1992 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] at 18:34 EDT I finished doing ALL the Zip deposit forms today and will mail them out tomorrow, including all the Overseas and Canadian ones. I did mail most of the US ones Friday and Saturday. Please do not include the ZIP $50 with TC128 subscriptions!!! I have to use a different deposit books for those. Because the TC128 resubscription notices were sent out a little bit before the ZIP forms I didn't realize people might get confused. All the ZIP forms should be on green paper. For those unlucky people that are not on GEnie, I can send you all the information on a floppy disk for $3. I am simply not going to spend money fruitlessly returning long distance phone calls and mailing a disk free to email inquires from other networks. For those people that I don't know "demanding" that I call them back long distance, please drop me a GEnie email or SASE. I do answer all my email and US mail. Because I have already spent quite a bit in postage I will accept the $3 in stamps or I.R.C. (International Response Coupons - STAMPED!!! by your overseas local Post Office - I will need SEVEN of these - better than trying to send $3 cash or a foriegn money order). ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 6 Tue Jun 09, 1992 J.PEEPLES at 02:04 EDT Well, it looks like the thing is really gonna happen. :) (I hope I hope oh I hope so!!!!) ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 7 Thu Jun 25, 1992 R.KNOP1 [Rob Knop] at 01:59 EDT I'm curious about the current market state of the ZIP boards. I know that you've sent out the deposit requests, JBEE. (Since I got one, and promptly mailed it back!) How many of them have you gotten back? Are only enough ZIP boards going to be made for the people who sent in the promissary note and the deposit? Or, will the be marketed thereafter? Or will there be hope of a second run? I'm just wondering, for the people who didn't send in the original forms because they sat on their hands or because they didn't know, they are going to turn GREEN when they see people with 8 MHz 128's! -Rob ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 8 Thu Jun 25, 1992 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] at 07:21 EDT I have gotten >60 <100 deposits back so far. I have just finished mailing out 1200 TC128s to User Groups in the US and will do about the same number in Canada later in July so that should at least spread the word a little. If we have to do a small run there probably won't be a second run, just not enough time. With ZIP we can produce many ASICs and build the boards as needed in lots, with another company we will have to produce it in small lots at a much higher cost with a longer time delay (still under $200 for people that leave deposits). Either way I will produce enough for the customers, warranty, and additional units for the original depositers. Either way (with Zip, w/o Zip) I will have to cough up a big piece of change$. How many people respond will determine how much money I tie up for eight months. It depends on time too. I mean a year from now when the Intel P5 comes out it will really push the price of PC chips down farther then they are now. 68000 chips (if you can find them) are selling for <$3 in lots of 1,000. A second run for an expensive board 16 months from now probably wouldn't be a big seller against $600 386 clones. ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 9 Sun Jun 28, 1992 B.LUCIER [bill l.] at 17:28 EDT Hey Jbee, I have just recently read the text file on the zip board from lib #1. I would like to get one so I would like to know if it is not too late to do so. If it isn't how much is the deposit and where should it be sent? Reading the text file made me kind of curious about the specs about if the zip board. Is it a 65c02 cpu that is being inserted? I noticed that you said there may be problems with programs that use undocumented opcodes, does that mean that we could use all the opcodes for the new cpu not just the old 6502 ones? I realize that any programs that did use them would only work on the 128 with the zip board but some of the 65c02 commands I have seen are very useful. Anyway I'll be sending in a deposit as soon as possible. (Assuming you are still taking them) Thanks, Bill. ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 10 Mon Jun 29, 1992 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] at 00:32 EDT You *should* be able to use the new opcodes of the 65C816 if you write a program that uses them. Some copy protected software or software that uses "illegal" or undocumented opcodes for the 6510/8502 will probably not work. We have quite a wish list for the new board with many possibilities including the bove mentioned operations. Just a matter of which ones are feasible. Just send the $50 deposit to the Parsec address listed in the form. ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 11 Wed Jul 01, 1992 B.LUCIER [bill l.] at 23:38 EDT Ok Jbee,thanks. I'll mail a deposit tomorrow Bill ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 12 Sat Jul 04, 1992 J.PEEPLES at 09:37 EDT I hope it can be kept compatible! The thing's not much good to me if I have to trash some of my favorite software to use it!!! Hopefully, there will be a disable switch and a place for the original CPU's in case of conflict! (hint hint hint...) ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 13 Sat Jul 04, 1992 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] at 20:54 EDT There will be. ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 14 Fri Jul 31, 1992 P.GREIVELL at 21:24 EDT Just wanted to say HI! and let you know I too am still supporting the 128 and the ZIP chip here in Southern Maryland. I am now using the 128 for my BBS called the BAY BOARD (410-326-9752) and I'm hoping that C-Net 6.0 won't conflict with the ZIP chip. I would love to watch those IBM propeller head friends of mine when they see this BBS fly! Hang in there! And don't run out of CASH! I am willing to put more bucks into this if needed. Maybe there are others like me out there as well.....later! ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 15 Fri Jul 31, 1992 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] at 23:20 EDT Thank you for the support. I hope to have more news at the end of August. ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 16 Mon Aug 31, 1992 C.ISAACSON1 at 00:11 EDT I have been following this catagory for a commodore club where some of the people have expressed a desire to have a zip chip... Is this really going to come true or just vaproize? I have a 64 and realize that this is not for me or my AMIGA, but several of the people are DIE HARD 128 users. PLEASE REPLY ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 17 Mon Aug 31, 1992 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] at 01:45 EDT This board will come true for at least the people that sent in deposits. ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 18 Sat Sep 19, 1992 C.ISAACSON1 at 09:20 EDT If the members of the club would still send in thier deposit would they still be able to get a Zip Chi? ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 19 Sat Sep 19, 1992 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] at 14:24 EDT Yes. I probably will not be going with Zip, we will be doing the board with someone else. I hope to have concrete news by the Friday coming up. JBEE ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 20 Sun Sep 27, 1992 C.ISAACSON1 at 23:41 EDT Have a couple of interested members that will send in the 50.00 dep. where should they send it or is it best to wait until you find more out about a new supplier? ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 21 Mon Sep 28, 1992 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] at 00:15 EDT If they want a seed-up board they should send their deposits now to the Parsec address. ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 22 Sat Oct 10, 1992 D.STRAUSS4 [Dave] at 22:19 EDT JBEE, it's been about 3 weeks since the last post here -- can you give us a little update on what's going on? :) ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 23 Sat Oct 10, 1992 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] at 23:33 EDT Not until Monday :) ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 24 Sat Oct 24, 1992 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] at 02:54 EDT Zip doesn't want to do the board now because they don't think the money or market is there (according to their CEO). I am not going to bother calling back their engineer again. I am now looking for an independent or small engineering firm. If I don't find someone to work with that has done previous board work I will be placing ads in the next issue of Midnight Engineering. I will be contacting everyone who left a deposit sometime in November with a first class letter once I know what I am going to do. If Commodore is willing to license the code and rights to the chips at a reasonable cost and the board looks "doable" we are going to skip the plug-in type of board completely and look at putting the entire C-128 on a single small board. Whenever possible I have been learning every- thing I could about the board business and have a good idea on board cost and connectors. o The reason I want to go to a smaller board is trying to kludge a working solution vs. designing something brand new is a lot tougher. Especially trying to meet the FCC tests. From the ground up it should be a lot easier. Also, two TC-128 authors know how (might print the articles sometime in 92/93) to hook up the cheap backlit LCD screens to the C-128. The smaller PC cases with power supply are <$50. So... if we design this board the right way and make connection to the signals easier we have a greater market potential for add-on parts and to upgrade the CPUs to faster speeds later with a simple plug in and turn of a screw for the timing. That's the "goal". If I get a contract signed and a beta board working that I can show off to local UGs and at shows then I will probably require the full price of the deposit up front to pay for the board work. Because we came no where even close to the 1,000 deposits I will have to fund the majority of this myself, at least most of the R&D stuff. Because of time & money limits we will (regretfully) be producing this board in a small batch and people that want boards after the original batch will have to leave a deposit and expect a wait. ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 25 Sat Oct 24, 1992 R.KNOP1 [Rob Knop] at 14:42 EDT Hmmm, sounds like ZIP has been reading the 1993 issues of RUN. Well, heck with 'em. If the "whole new motherboard" approach does work, will the boards go in the current case, or will there be new cases? (You mention <$50 PC board cases.) How about the keyboard, will we use current keyboards? Will there be a difference for C128 or C128D? (I guess I can see the solution with C128Ds.) Also, will this still be able to stay under $200? Probably you could if you don't ship any chips with it, but get people to pull the chips out of their current computer. I wonder... smaller board, backlit LCD screen... any chance of using low-power chips and getting an on board power supply? :D Probably doubtful, though, since the VIC, VDC, MMU, etc. are all already there and not low-power chips. (Curious, how are the MMU and PLA gonna cope at 12 MHz? The VIC and VDC can still just go at 1 or 2 MHz, stealing 1/12 of the clock cycles, but some of these other chips gotta keep up with the whole system, don't they?) -Rob ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 26 Sun Oct 25, 1992 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] at 23:19 EST I don't know on most of the questions, that is why I need a engineer who does boards :) I want to be able to use the case and power supply of the C-128 or C-128D - unless someone wants to put it into a laptop case. It will come with the connectors attached. Least this is what I will shoot for and downgrade the "ideal" if it isn't. ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 27 Mon Oct 26, 1992 HOWIE-CBM at 17:37 EST JBEE, I think I may have someone for you. Best of all, he can probably design a board in a day, and have a proto-type running tests on day two. Am I exagerating or what? :) Watch your GEnie e-mail box for details! :) Howie ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 28 Mon Oct 26, 1992 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] at 20:45 EST Got it :) I will be giving him a call too! ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 29 Wed Oct 28, 1992 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] at 18:16 EST This probably hasn't been made too clear before but the Zip board working with the C-256/C-512k articles published in TC-128 isn't a problem. It will work with any computer in a default setting no matter what you have. I already have a good idea from the people contacted about making boards and it will be designed with 56k-512k surface mount ram right on the board. The additional cost for surface mount ram is $10-$20 for the total cost of the board. Worrying about if it will work with your expanded C-512k is a non-issue. Use your C-512k and enjoy it. The idea for publishing the articles was so we could have the development tools now to modify things like ARC/CS-DOS/Geos so when the board was done and delivered we would have the software and ability to run it This is one of the reasons I have been buying the rights to software like ARC. The reason for posting this now is because someone called me worrying about this and "rumors" he heard about it not working with hs 512K. It doesn't matter, the board will come with ram. ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 30 Fri Oct 30, 1992 CMD-DOUG at 02:05 EST If it were me (and no you didn't ask, but I'll give my opinion anyway), I'd avoid using surface mount. Why? Repairability. IMHO, you'd be better to put the extra money for SMT into slanted SIMM sockets. This saves you a fair amount of board space over standard DRAM chips, and might allow for some expandability if you set up extra addressing. ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 31 Fri Oct 30, 1992 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] at 03:42 EST I haven't ruled out SIMMs, but if we use SIMMs there is no way I can include 512K without raising the cost of the board. If we go just with a simple plug in board we will most likely go with surface mount so it fits entirely within the flat 128's RF shield. If we go with a new board then we can consider SIMMs. ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 32 Mon Nov 09, 1992 HOWIE-CBM at 00:39 EST Hiya Alex, and Welcome to GEnie!!! :) Howie ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 33 Tue Nov 10, 1992 K.FRIOU at 01:22 EST I still would like to see the 8 mhz work out no matter how it is done and the idea of using LCD screens is a wonderful idea. Please keep at it for a while any way. I can see a use for the flat c-128 and a 1581, now hthat CMD has large capacity drives available. I would lug a drive and computer around if the "monitor" was just an LCD screen. In factif some one could figure out how to run everything off of just one power supply... Keep up the good work! ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 34 Tue Nov 10, 1992 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] at 09:33 EST Actually, there are a few people with C-128 "clones", C-128s in clone AT cases running off PC power supplies. As for 8Mhz, I think I am going to skip that and just go for the 12Mhz 65C816 that is suppose to be out. I will probably run the LCD stuff in TC-128/64. ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 35 Mon Jan 04, 1993 C.ISAACSON1 [Dadd] at 23:35 EST do you really think that you will ever come up with a 128 or 64 accellerator? 8s ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 36 Tue Jan 05, 1993 C128.JBEE at 10:56 EST I am 100% certain on the C-64 and almost sure on the C-128. ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 37 Wed Jan 06, 1993 F.OGLE [Color 64 BBS] at 18:29 EST Folks at the local CUGs here are screaming, Jbee - They want to know what is up with the accelerators! ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 38 Thu Jan 07, 1993 C128.JBEE at 00:14 EST I am going ahead with them :X Once I have something concrete to post I will, which will probably be before the end of the month. As a few of the "insiders" know I haven't exactly been sitting still, things just take time and I don't want to post details unless they are concrete. Though I guarantee once I do people will be pleased :) ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 39 Thu Jan 07, 1993 CBM-MARK at 22:38 EST Does anybody know if JBEE *ever* 'sits still'? :D We'll all be patiently (or otherwise :) waiting for you to release the latest info when you have it! ▐▐Mark▐▐ ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 40 Fri Jan 15, 1993 B.ENNIS1 [Torby] at 02:47 EST ThThe president of my local user group sent in his $50 on this accellerator. I can't say that he has been optimistic about ever seeing anything come out of it. Is there anything I can tell him that is of any good? ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 41 Fri Jan 15, 1993 C128.JBEE at 13:49 EST Not until the end of the month. ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 42 Thu Jan 28, 1993 C128.JBEE at 19:31 EST Bil Herd a former Commodore engineer has agreed to help me produce the speed-up board for the C-128. Actually, Bil is the one that helped design both the C-128 and REUs (sys 32800,123,45,6). I expect to have him here shortly under the CBM-PRESS account. I will also have a few other experts helping out on the project, some which are already online ;) Once we have everything planned out and the directions set for the design goals I will post more here and have a RTC. I would say at this point it is a go :) ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 43 Thu Jan 28, 1993 F.OGLE [Color 64 BBS] at 19:49 EST John, that's great news - I hope all goes well! ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 44 Thu Jan 28, 1993 CBM-MARK at 22:54 EST Hurray! Sounds like it's one step closer to completion, JBEE. Good Luck! Hope I don't have to work when you have the RTC :( ▐▐Mark▐▐ ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 45 Fri Jan 29, 1993 C128.JBEE at 01:56 EST I hope not either :) ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 46 Fri Jan 29, 1993 HOWIE-CBM at 02:13 EST This is good news!!! Now, if we can also persuade Bil to relate a bit of Commodore lore while he is up and about, we are all in for a huge treat. And, it is not all that difficult to persuade Bil. :) But I guess we should also let him have a spare moment or two so that he can do a bit of design too. Howie ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 47 Tue Feb 02, 1993 M.LESLIE5 [Warp Sled] at 01:01 EST That's great news! Just let me know when to get in line for it! :) ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 48 Tue Feb 02, 1993 C.OGLE2 [breadstick] at 05:56 EST Say, JeBEE, if the outlook on the ZIP CHIP looks okay at this point, are you still wanting people to send in deposits? Or are you going to wait and see how the pworojusect goes first? ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 49 Tue Feb 02, 1993 C128.JBEE at 21:17 EST I don't want any more deposits or survey sheets and have been returning the few stray deposits that have arrived (except for one from Sweden because I know the guy had to go to a lot of trouble to send it). I am going to delete the "zip" survey I uploaded in a few minutes. ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 50 Tue Feb 02, 1993 D.WITMER2 [Snogpitch] at 23:34 EST Looks like I've gotten into this topic a little bit late. Is there a way to get on a waiting list, since at this point deposits are no longer being accepted? I've got a technical question of sorts. How does the speed up affect such programs as telecommunication programs that involve timing to work, such as for up/downloading, etc? Seems to me there could be a potential problem using existing programs. Several of the local Commodore boards have been discussing this with who knows what facts they have to back them up, and I'm dying to find out how much software would be instantly compatible with the zip. ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 51 Wed Feb 03, 1993 C128.JBEE at 04:00 EST There is no waiting list. Anything that uses the 1mhz bus and CIAs for timing will be okay, software that uses ML loops for timing will run too fast? Since my tests with Dialogue 128 downloading at 9600 were 95%+ eff on the GEnie 9600 WATS line I do not see where the board will speed up or improve any telecom session worth mentioning or to justify purchasing the cartridge. Where it will make a big improvement is in programs with a lot of processor overhead like graphic applications (Basic 8) and things like ARC. Word processors will run a lot faster too since the VDC can accept data far faster than the 8502 can deliver it. The most exciting thing (for me) will be the ability to run applications in compiled languages such as C as fast as ML applications run now. That will open up the possibility of a lot of new software easily ported from other machines. Of course things like Geos will fly :) ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 52 Wed Feb 03, 1993 CBM-ED [e.g.bell] at 09:50 EST Uh Oh! JB> Anything that uses the 1mhz bus and CIAs for timing will be JB> okay, software that uses ML loops for timing will run too JB> fast? Since my tests with Dialogue 128 downloading at 9600 JB> were 95%+ eff on the GEnie 9600 WATS line I do not see JB> where the board will speed up or improve any telecom I know I use the jiffy timers at 160-162 for timing loops in BellTerm and RTCMaster, including/especially for transfers. Or will that be left at the 60/second rate too? Currently that set of addresses is updated by the system IRQ. But if the IRQ is significantly changed wrt timing, will it cause other stuff to have problems. I am not asking like I know the answer.... I don't... just curious. ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 53 Wed Feb 03, 1993 C128.JBEE at 16:31 EST I won't know either until we have a working prototype :) ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 54 Wed Feb 03, 1993 R.KNOP1 [Rob Knop] at 21:54 EST The normal system IRQ is triggered by the screen raster, rather than by counting a certain number of system clock cycles. Since the screen refresh rate can't be changed by the ZIP board (or else all of our monitors will no longer be good enough :), I would imagine that the IRQ's will still come at 1 per 60 seconds. Which means you can get a lot more done between interrupts, and a lot more done in an IRQ routine :). Since the jiffy clock is updated by the IRQ routine, if my imagination that IRQ's will still come at 1/60 seconds is correct, then software that uses the ZP jiffy clock for timing will still probably work just fine. By a similar token, terminal programs should still work fine. When a byte comes in on the RS232 port, it triggers a NMI, and the actual byte receiving is done in that NMI. Thus, the rate that byte triggers come in should not be affected by the processor speed. And, assuming a well written terminal program, which makes sure it isn't overfilling the buffer, there shouldn't be any problem with sending bytes, either. (How does George Hug deal with timing?) Again, the terminal program will have many more clock cycles to process each byte that comes in... visualize some pretty impessive online decompression. Realtime GIF viewing, anybody? :D -Rob ------------ Category 2, Topic 12 Message 55 Thu Feb 04, 1993 CBM-ED [e.g.bell] at 03:14 EST Rob: I know the 128 IRQ is tied to the raster interrupt, but I don't think the one in the C64 is done that way. As for normal RS232 i/o you are probably on the money. I'm talking about file transfer protoocols where an event is timed.... i.e. waiting for the SOH byte in all of the Xmodem derivative protocols (Xmodem CRC/Checksum/1K/ Ymodem). If the update rate of the addresses 160-162 are changed that is going to affect any of these protocols. George hug uses a countdown timer with a different calibration from the standard resident routines. That is not the whole picture, but again, my concern was never with the garden variety i/o, which is little more than a glorified file-handling function (my opinion) and should respond well to the speed-up. I was just concerned about things that used the Jiffy timer. If the interrupts are controlled at 60 per second this is probably all moot and as you say, there will be lots more time to do things between the interrupts. ------------