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************ Topic 5 Sat Oct 19, 1991 G.CORREA (Forwarded) Sub: REU vs RAMLINK vs RAMDRIVE vs ...? Could use some education here, guys & gals. In simple terms, what differences exist between RAMLINK and RAMDRIVE, and how do they compare to a Commodore 1700-series REU? 21 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 1 Sat Oct 19, 1991 G.CORREA (Forwarded) I own a 1750 REU, and am satisfied with it's performance with GEOS, MAVERICK, CS-DOS, et al. What performance differences would I encounter if I upgrade (?) to a CMD device? I have read the reviews from TC128, GEOWORLD, RUN, etc, and none seem to answer the questions I have. They describe basically what they are- RAM-based disk drives, DOS and all- but I haven't quite figured out what they DO. Is a CMD a replacement for a CBM REU? Or is it another GEORAM, unusable with software expecting a REU? With GEOS, which would be better- CBM or CMD? Outside of GEOS...? I like the idea of battery back-up. Do I hear correctly, GEOS could be installed onto a CMD and boot from it (almost instantaneously)? If the CMD is not a CBM substitute, but (in RAMLINK's case) a suppliment to a REU, what advantages are there in actually owning one? Thanks in advance. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 2 Sat Oct 19, 1991 G.CORREA (Forwarded) BTW, I didn't specify, I own a 128C, 1541, 1571, 1581, 1750... if it makes much difference. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 3 Sat Oct 19, 1991 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] (Forwarded) The Ramlink and Ramdrive for all intents and purposes function the same way when it comes to running software. I will list first what ramlink provides vs. what ramdrive doesn't. This is actually part of an article in issue #30 being printed that I wrote. Guess we just have to get those issues out quicker ;) Ramlink gives you pass through ports and direct access to your cartridges without using an expansion port expander. Ramlink gives your REU battery backup when used with Ramlink, ramdrive does not. Ramlink provides parallel disk access to your CMD HD providing a 4x speedup over it's already fast performance. Ramlink can be easily expanded to 16megs. Ramdrive can only be had with 2megs and additional ram can not be user installed as easily in a ramdrive. For the money, especially if you are buying either with 2megs the Ramlink is a better deal. If you decide to sell off your Ramlink for whatever reason, the dram is easily removed and is both popular and common so you can use it on other computers if you want. The Ramdrive advantage is it is more "movable" than Ramlink and the battery backed ram is self contained inside the cartridge. A better and neater design without all those cords and such. Not as bulky. Ramdrive is better for portable computing and toting your work around computer to computer. The battery backup also lasts longer or so it would seem by the specs in the ds, I can not verify this myself as I do not own a Ramdrive. Though considering how long Ramlink lasts on battery the extra edges may not be needed unless running a BBS or critcal timing application. One way to think of Ramdrive is like a superior Quick Brown Box. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 4 Sat Oct 19, 1991 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] (Forwarded) You can install Geos on either Ramlink or a CMD HD. The HD is very fast and even scrolling a geoPaint on a HD is fast enough, though not quite fast enough for freehand drawing. Everything is almost instant on the Ramlink, including Geos. If you are running everything from the REU now, you won't see any performance difference in how fast the application runs etc. What you will see is that you can stuff almost everything into the Ramlink, you are only limited by how much dram you have. Since everything is battery backed it means no more floppies to boot Geos and you don't have to move files into the REU anymore to get REU speed. Your applications and datafiles are there the minute you boot Geos. Think of it as a BIG battery backed disk drive and not a replacement for your REU. More of an enhancement. The Ramlink is useable as a disk drive with almost all software but useless to use with REU specific software unless you have a REU already. If GEOS is the software you use most and you sold your 1541 and REU to help pay for a 2 meg ramlink you would not miss either the 1541 or REU much. Though I would keep the REU because there are several advantages to having one. The first message are "facts" and the last message here is "opinion". ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 5 Mon Oct 21, 1991 G.CORREA (Forwarded) My thanks. About "enhancing" my REU... How would a RAMLink (RAMDrive now being excluded now I see the difference), deal with something like MAVERICK? Would it mean faster copying if I toggeled REU access on, or if I copied to RAMLink, then to 15xx? (Just looking for an example here, and MAVERICK is the only software that comes to mind.) RAMLink "passes through" to an REU...? How so? I have read that the half-meg of a 1750 would then map into RAMLink, but would software recognise the 1750 as a 1750, or as a half-meg more on a RAMLink? Basically, how transparent is a RAMLink when dealing with the REU in the pass-thru slot? If I put GEOS on an RL, would I get improved results by partitioning a 1581 into a 2Meg RL, or if I used my trusty "RAM 1571" via 1750? Thanks again, JBEE (really gotta get a subscription to TC128. I shudder at the thought of what I'm missing...) and anyone else who pitches their eight bits in- I'd appreciate hearing opinions of people who own & use RL. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 6 Mon Oct 21, 1991 H.HERMAN1 (Forwarded) RAMLink *IS* a 1541, 1571, 1581, and its own native mode drive. Everything that you now do with any of these drives (with one exception) can be done with RAMLink. The only difference is that with RL all these things get done in an instant. Load a program? Press a key. Poof! It's running! :) A REU is a REU. Even tho accessed thru RL's port. If will behave exactly like it did before. All REU's including custom expanded ones. One exception: The QBB boxes cannot be usedwith RL nor RD. Pockets use it their way. CS/DOS uses it its way. CP/M uses it its way. You have the option to use a REU's ram as part of RL's ram, but may not want to do this. Or, only do this part of the time. So many programs use the REU directly, that you'll want to keep using it that way. A plus using the REU thru RL: It is always powered. So whatever was in there the last time you accessed t, is still there the next time. Once you access it in another way, tho, you still erase its content since the running program takes it over. However RL's Ram is ALWAYS there, just like one big floppy disk. The software incompatibility I mentioned above applies to copy protected software, like the Pocket programs,that use a drive's Ram as part of its protection scheme. RL has no drive Ram. So while Maverick/RamBoard can copy a Pocket program into RL, it still cannot boot from there, since the program code is looking for something that does not exist. Another incompatibility is DesTerm. It will not run with RL. It uses non- standard drive accesses. However, it will be able to run from RL very soon, since Matt is working on a new version to let it do this. The only programs that I cannot run from RL are the three Pockets. I shouldn't say only, since I use all three a lot... :( CP/M on the 128 will run with RL, but got short-changed. RL in everyday use is limited to booting, and super zapping stuff into the REU. As to things running faster? I don't have Maverick. However, things that do things with disks run like lightening. Using CS/DOS's arc is fast. It still takes process time, but it writes and reads to disk in no time. I haven't done any time tests, but files that would take a few minutes to unarc on a 128 to a 1581 now get done in maybe 15 seconds. A UUdecode that took 4 seconds on RL, would take about a one minute onto a 1581. The part of the running program that goes to disk gets done like POOF! :) I quess one way to describe RL and RD is to say that you still have your familiar 64 or 128, except that now everything flies. No waiting. Everything is done by the time you are done pressing a key. An entirely new and welcome └look and feel' to our computers. Howie ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 7 Tue Oct 22, 1991 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] (Forwarded) I think G.Correa was hinting at copy times too, if not I will address it anyways :) Using Maverick 1581 to 1581 takes about 1.5 minutes. If you have a single 1581 it takes much longer and 4 disk swaps (about 8 on a C64 without a reu or 64k VDC in C128 mode). The CMD MCOPY (mirror copy - whole disk copier) takes about 2 minutes to do a full disk copy to or from a Ramlink. So, it would take just two swaps and less than four minutes to copy a disk to and from Ramlink with no reu. So, on the basis of whole disk copying there is an advantage, especially if you hate to keep swapping disks and only have a single 1541,71, or 81 to copy on and limited REU expansion. A great benefit is if you have a master disk/boot disk and you need to make multiple copies of it. Once loaded into Ramlink you can make all the copies you want and Mcopy works almost as fast as the Maverick data copier. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 8 Tue Oct 22, 1991 R.KNOP1 [Rob Knop] (Forwarded) Howie- of course, you can use RL for Pocket data disks, can't you? In this case, you would not need to leave an REU in pass-thru mode, as you could have RamLink use its RAM as a part of a RAMdisk that Pocket ---er would think is a normal data disk. Although the Pocket series are impossible to copy, at least they load reasonably quickly from a 1571 (although maybe not to someone spoiled by a RAMLink ;) ). Also, I am glad that "bootonu10" works, since I have a 1581 as drive 8, and don't have to flip dip-switches to run Pocket Writer. -Rob ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 9 Thu Oct 24, 1991 HOWIE-CBM [H.HERMAN1] (Forwarded) Hi Rob! I've set things up with the Pockets so that the REU is a REU, and access RAMLink ram as several additional drives. I did this for two reasons: Writer3 comes with three overlay files, that seem to get accessed a bit faster when they are in the REU (and the configuration file identifies the REU as the default drive), and Filer2 runs fast from the REU. I tried running Filer one time from RL's ram, and it was a lot slower. No idea why. All three Pockets access RL for data very easilly. Drives 1 thru 5 were already assigned to the REU, and drives. So now drives 6 thru 9 access different partitions on RL. Here's what the drive portion of the three Pocket configure files look like: Assign0=0,8 Assign1=0,9 Assign2=RAM Assign3=0,10 Assign4=0,11 Assign5=0,12 Assign6=0,16 Assign7=3,16 Assign8=4,16 Assign9=5,16 Drive=2 Drives 7-9 access partions 3-5, an 6 since it accesses 0, goes to the default partition 2, and can └float' to access any others I may want. I was especially happy to find out that drives higher than 0 and 1 could be assigned. A nice capability! Another nice one: All, and I mean ALL of RL/DOS's RL unique commands can be sent to RL thru the Pocket programs command channel. So, once any Pocket program is running, it fully accesses everything that RL has to offer, and of course quickly. The Pockets all get booted from either 10 or 11. There is a prob doing this with Filer2. Unless it gets booted from #8, you loose the ability to switch its modes, while running. So, to go from n Edit, to Print, I've got to quit, and re-boot. Decided to live with this inconvenience as a trade off for the convenience of having a 1581 as #8. When I originally ran into this prob, I put filer thru a lot of contortions trying to fool it into going to 10 for the switch. Nothing worked. Writer and Planner have no probs booting and doing everything tho. With Writer its overlays are on the 1581, where it goes when booted, but they are also in the REU, which once configure gets loaded, has Writer going there for those parts. You can tell when it does this, since there is a less than one second pause. Nothing serious, considering the extra features the overlays offer. Howie ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 10 Thu Oct 24, 1991 M.MINNIG (Forwarded) ner 128 is the best C= spreadsheet around. Too bad about that copy protection, though! Imagine booting from RAMLink or the HD! I wrote Digital when I sent in my reg. cards, pleading for a version that I could boot from RL or HD. They said no, they have no plans to remove the copy protection :(. However, you CAN back-up the program to a floppy disk using MAVERICK and a 1541 with 8K RAM installed. I did it and boot from this disk to preserve my original. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 11 Fri Oct 25, 1991 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] (Forwarded) Swiftcalc 128 runs fine from any disk drive and flies from HD, never mind a Ramlink! I would be willing to bet that they can't remove the copy protection without rewriting the whole program. ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 12 Sun Oct 27, 1991 HOWIE-CBM [H.HERMAN1] (Forwarded) Well, Digital Solutions's Planner2 is my favorite. Right now I'd even be happy to see the three Pockets on one copy protected 1581 disk. They could use the same unfriendly copy protection scheme, but it would be a lot more convenient to have everything boot from one drive. I quess it says a lot for the programs that we are willing to put up with these inconveniences. At least, some of us are.... Don't give up on on breaking that code JBEE!! We still haven't tried your super smart C128. And, maybe when combined with some fancy RL programming, such as a 'dummy' area for the Pocket protection to use, we can do it. Or, maybe I'm just dreaming again.... Howie ------------ Category 2, Topic 5 Message 13 Sun Oct 27, 1991 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] (Forwarded) dreaming is the first step towards reality ;) ------------ ************ Topic 6 Sat Mar 02, 1991 H.HERMAN1 at 14:15 EST Sub: Finding The BEST Programs The FlagShip's Librarys have some TERRIFIC, but little known software. 54 message(s) total. ************ ------------ Category 2, Topic 6 Message 1 Sat Mar 02, 1991 H.HERMAN1 at 14:16 EST Bill, How about seeing if there is any interest in setting up a Category where we all would be encouraged to post our comments about programs that we especially like, and that are available from the librarys? My reason for asking this is sorta selfish. I don't routinely BROwse through the Library. And, well... I just did a bit of browsing, and I found a lot of terrific stuff that I've been missing out on. If I saw Topic threads on some of the stuff, I would have taken a look, and downloaded a long time ago. Come to think of it, most of the things I've downloaded, have been because I've seen occasional messages about them first, got interested, and got 'em. However, a lot of goodies are there, and I don't know about them. Just one example: I saw that there were some recent uploads of IPaint interlaced graphics. I got these, and then the I PAINT VIEWER, IVS, (file #7965). Well, I fell backward off my chair, as my socks got blowed away, and my eyeballs popped out of their sockets in AMAZEMENT! I just sorta stumbled on IVS, and missed out on it until now. I'm gonna go back and do some more browsing, to see what else I've been missing. However, I suspect there may be a lot of us, who routinely read messages, and need to see some good things said about a program in the Library before we go and get it. I quess REPlying here to this Topic is as good a place as any, for anyone else to let you know if they are interested in seeing a new Category set-up for this. It gets my vote!! Howie - can be found in the Library downloading "IP.*" files - ------------ Category 2, Topic 6 Message 2 Sat Mar 02, 1991 C128.JBEE at 21:52 EST Well, this would be as good of a place as any! Yep, those Ipaint files really can be stunning! Wait untill all the Basic8 artists get good at Ipaint! It does take a bit of time but the results can be outstanding! I know a lot of people complain about flicker but I hardly get any at all. I think the catch is setting the brightness and screen size correctly. JBEE ------------ Category 2, Topic 6 Message 3 Sun Mar 03, 1991 C128-BILL [Bill] at 12:25 EST OK, Category 2, Topic 6 is now the place to Post *YOUR* comments about Library files! Ummm.. What do ya want to call this topic? "Fab Library Files" ? or sumthin better... ------------ Category 2, Topic 6 Message 4 Mon Mar 04, 1991 C128.JBEE at 04:32 EST How about "Totally RAD P.D." ? or maybe .... ------------ Category 2, Topic 6 Message 6 Fri Mar 22, 1991 M.STANTON9 at 01:55 EST In regards to aefro/noice, I have downloaded this file two times using YModem and both times it has been a failure. It just loads and loads and then changes screen color and continues to load and won't work at all. I let it spin my disk drive for 15 minutes one time and still nothing. I have loaded it with and without the fastload cart. I have used load"*",8,1 and load"*",8 and I have loaded it from drive 9 the same way and nothing. If it is working for everyone else, why not me? BTW, I have downloaded around 50 files and have never ad a problem before, so I don't think it was just a bad x-fer on my end ------------ Category 2, Topic 6 Message 7 Fri Mar 22, 1991 VOYAGER-1 [Gary V] at 07:29 EST The problem you are probably encountering is the good old Xmodem padding ( yes, it is used in the Y modem protocol also ). This is such a large file and it just needs a small portion of the last Y Modem block. The result is that there is almost 1K of padding added and it overruns the I/O if you load it without stripping the padding first. Some terms will do this automatically, but most don't. You will have to use a X Modem padding stripper or a sector editor to get rid of the padding. ------------ Category 2, Topic 6 Message 8 Sat Mar 23, 1991 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] at 10:54 EST Dag nab it! Xmodem padding :p I guess I must have one of those better terms, coming tothink of it I downloaded it Xmodem vs Ymodem too. Tell you what, hold off on the download untill you see the SFX version ( I will do it for the uploader to elminate the xmodem padding confusion though it doesnt compress well at all). If you already downloaded it then just use a Xmodem stripper. ------------ Category 2, Topic 6 Message 9 Sun Mar 24, 1991 H.HERMAN1 at 03:41 EST Ha! I've been up/down loading since '86, and only two months ago ran into my _first_ prob with XMO padding. It took two months of on again/off again tinkering before the light bulb *LIT* in my head, and I looked for padding as the offender. It was only a short (19 cbm blocks) routine, but would not run til I stripped the padding. I quess the reason that it took so long to think of this was that it was entirely in BASIC. Who would have thought that that innocent looking 19 blocks of Basic would create some very complex ML routines? BTW, it turns the 64 into an oscilloscope and then lets you select sounds from the SID which it displays. All menu driven. Actually, I wanted it to view the SID's RND generator. But it will do all of SID's possible sounds. At one point I was convinced that it was my 128, just not being capable of running this one 64 program... The offender was BobsTermPro128 which does NOT strip. It shouldn't happen again, since I am now busilly transferring the info from all its phone and macro files over to Dialogue (the SwiftLink version). :) Howie ------------ Category 2, Topic 6 Message 10 Sun Mar 24, 1991 C128-BILL [Bill] at 14:55 EST By the way... Wizard strips this offending X-Modem padding all on its own! ;) ------------ Category 2, Topic 6 Message 11 Mon Mar 25, 1991 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] at 02:47 EST We wouldn't expect anything less from Wizard ;D ------------ Category 2, Topic 6 Message 12 Sat Mar 30, 1991 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] at 18:43 EST Well, Aefro/noice is live again. The file will not SFX properly because it is too large and ARCing the file results in a file 196 blks long. I don't think a 6 blk savings is worth it because 1)people won't download programs if they are arced because they dont know how to use ARC 2)the savings vs the headache of deARCing it for one drive owners isnt worth the savings 3) hopefully most people are using a good terminal that strips xmodem padding, otherwise they can download a stripper or Wizard for their downloading. Anyways, it is a great program. "Tour de Force" is great too. Not exactly what I expected but a great download for the amount of blks and it is unique! ------------ Category 2, Topic 6 Message 13 Fri Apr 26, 1991 J.REHBERG [joyce] at 23:58 EDT Howie! What do you think od Dialogue? Been thinking of sending for it but haven't heard any comments. Joyce ------------ Category 2, Topic 6 Message 14 Sat Apr 27, 1991 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] at 09:14 EDT well, I just sent them mail by pony express to see what's up. If I get a reply back I will let everyone know. I meet him at WoC (Toronto) and he seemed pretty decent. ------------ Category 2, Topic 6 Message 15 Sat May 04, 1991 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] at 22:30 EDT Well, I got a reply back today from Malcolm O'Brien, "proprietor". It was a pretty quick reply, especially considering mail going back and forth from Canada and the U.S. Well, basically he says the problem was with his former distributor "workable concepts" and he is aware of the complaints people had with them and has filled their orders if they send proof of the transaction. Since my earlier post I have talked to people and they have verified that he HAS sent them the product on orders where their checks were cashed and nothing was sent. He also says he has no "aged receivables" so if you have an order outstanding send him mail. He appears very willing to wok with people on their complaints. He also said he was sick almost the full month of January with the flu. After having my van break down for only three days I can imagine being bed ridden as a big problem in a one man operation :) His main concern was with the bad press because of Workable Concepts and the fact that RUN didn't publish the S+H price. I know this has caused me untold headaches with my Canadian customers too when they did it for one of my products. Well, it comes down to noone (or company) is perfect. If you decide you need Dialouge 128 should you take the chance and send the money? It's up to you but I would feel pretty safe about it knowing what I know now (before his letter...I did some checking) and especially recieving his letter today. It is a good program and he seems like a pretty rational and together guy. Plus, he IS supporting the C128. JBEE (: ------------ Category 2, Topic 6 Message 17 Sun May 05, 1991 DALE-RAY at 18:30 EDT JBEE, Could you post the proper address to use when ordering Dialouge? It might help some people. ------------ Category 2, Topic 6 Message 18 Sun May 05, 1991 C128-BILL [Bill] at 20:49 EDT By the way, Malcom is, in my humble opinion, a very honorable and super guy! I didn't know he got ill a few months back. Bill J. ------------ Category 2, Topic 6 Message 19 Sun May 05, 1991 C128.JBEE [* Sysop *] at 20:54 EDT Sure :) Shining Star Software #1205-1640 Bayview Ave Toronto, ON Canada M4G 4E9 Just a suggestion on sending mail to Canada. Get those little yellow airmail stickers (form 19-B) and stick one in the lower left on the front side of your letter and the top right and lower left on the back side. Really helps it move faster through the system. ------------ Category 2, Topic 6 Message 31 Sun Nov 24, 1991 R.PATERNOST2 [Ray] at 11:44 CST Just a little note for you people who haven't ordred Dialogue yet (myself included): Software Support is now selling the program for $24.95 in their latest catalog. ------------