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1996-10-04
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From: DAVID FELSTEAD <lr71@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Brucken...Propaganda
Date: 03 Sep 1996 23:35:39 GMT
Hi there... i have over 3 hours of propaganda /brucken related videos and
am desperate to get hold of more or live tapes etc... can anyone help..
Best Wishes... Dave
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Lucas dos Santos" <plucas@ip.pt>
Subject: Ztt search
Date: 04 Sep 1996 19:39:48 +0100
To all ZTT fans
Hi. I'm a ZTT fan and am very very pleased to know such a mailing list
exists !!!
I live in Lisbon,Portugal and, through the years, have collected ZTT
records
from FGTH, Propaganda and Art of Noise,
All this time I have been amazed how I still could hear sometimes
somewhere
some strange version of a music I thought I had every version of.
Surely I'm not alone in this...
More depressing has been (before the net came) not to know
where to identify a version, or find a record, or where to buy it.
Indulge me.
Tell me where I can get old ZTT musics from the above groups.
Collector/rare record shops, people wanting to sell their old stuff,
anything that helps.
Mainly for FGTH and Propaganda.
And in the air, I drop an idea (needs lotsa disk space...).
A music server (e.g. in RealAudio format) for all the fans.
I'd be glad to provide my stuff.
So, waiting to hear from you
Best regards
Pedro Lucas
PS:
There are things that one never stops searching but one never finds.
My trauma, zum bei spiel, are the P-Machinery Betamixes.
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: topher@france-techno.fr
Subject: >>>>> VIRUS ALERT - VERY IMPORTANT <<<<<
Date: 05 Sep 1996 01:18:25 +0100
>Very important information; please read.
>The FCC released a warning last Wednesday to any user of the Internet.
>There is a "computer virus" that is being sent across the Internet by E-Mail.
>If you receive an E-Mail message with the subject line
>>>>>>>>>>" Good Times "<<<<<<<<<<
>>>>> DO NOT READ THE MESSAGE <<<<
>>>>> DELETE IT IMMEDIATELY <<<<
>It not only destroys your computer, but it goes into your list of E-Mail
>addresses and sends itself to all others on the list, and then proceeds
>to completely wipe out your hard drive and overdrive (overheat) your
>processor by sending it into an nth complexity binary loop.
>Remember the Virus' name "Good Times".
>Pass this along to your global mailing list as well.
Don't give in to paranoia either...
Later,
Topher.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
=====================================================
F r a n c e T e c h n o - topher@france-techno.fr
-----------------------------------------------------
Alright now, open your favorite browser and type in the following URL:
-----------------------------------
- http://www.france-techno.fr -
-----------------------------------
Check out some neat F-Communications, Coda & Radio FG pages !
A nice Home Studio department !!
Pictures and reports of the main techno events !!!
The best french clubs, record stores, techno bars etc... !!!!
Read our breathtaking mailing list archives !!!!!
And MORE... !!! Much Much MORE... !!!!!!
"Flatline !"
/\
/ \ /\
/ \ /\ / \
______/ \ /\ / \ /\__ ( O O ) __ /\ / \ /\ _____
\/ \ / \/ I \/ \ / \/ \ /
\ / _ \/ \ /
\/ \ /
\/
I I got a job making money for the man, I
I Throwing chicken in the bucket with the soda pop can. I
I Puke green uniform on my back, I
I I had to set it on fire in a vat of chicken fat. I
I I leaped on the counter like a bird with no hair I
I Running through the mini-mall in my underwear. I
I I got lost downtown, couldn't find a ride home, I
I Sun went down, I got frozen to the bone I
I 'Til a hooker let me share her fake fur coat. I
I As I took a little nap, the cops picked up us both, I
I I tried to explain I was only trying to get warm. I
I I knew I never ever should have burnt my uniform. I
I He said: "Too bad. You want to bite the bullet hard, son?" I
I I didn't have no teeth, so I stole his gun I
I And I crawled out the window with my shadow on a spoon, I
I Dancing on the roof, shooting holes in the moon. I
I I
I BECK - "Soul Suckin' Jerk" I
---
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Ashley D. Collins" <acol@jove.acs.unt.edu>
Subject: Good Times is a hoax (Re: >>>>> VIRUS ALERT - VERY IMPORTANT <<<<<)
Date: 04 Sep 1996 19:40:41 -0500 (CDT)
Thanks for your concern, but the "Good Times" virus is a hoax.
On Thu, 5 Sep 1996 topher@france-techno.fr wrote:
> >Very important information; please read.
> >The FCC released a warning last Wednesday to any user of the Internet.
> >There is a "computer virus" that is being sent across the Internet by E-Mail.
> >If you receive an E-Mail message with the subject line
> >>>>>>>>>>" Good Times "<<<<<<<<<<
> >>>>> DO NOT READ THE MESSAGE <<<<
> >>>>> DELETE IT IMMEDIATELY <<<<
> >It not only destroys your computer, but it goes into your list of E-Mail
> >addresses and sends itself to all others on the list, and then proceeds
> >to completely wipe out your hard drive and overdrive (overheat) your
> >processor by sending it into an nth complexity binary loop.
> >Remember the Virus' name "Good Times".
>
> >Pass this along to your global mailing list as well.
[ bandwidth-wasting .sig deleted ]
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Mike Brown <mike@hyperreal.com>
Subject: The virus hoax (Who's Afraid?)
Date: 04 Sep 1996 17:52:00 -0700 (PDT)
> >It not only destroys your computer, but it goes into your list of E-Mail
> >addresses and sends itself to all others on the list, and then proceeds
> >to completely wipe out your hard drive and overdrive (overheat) your
> >processor by sending it into an nth complexity binary loop.
It shouldn't have to be said, but this "alert" is a hoax that has been
propagated by clueless people since 2 Dec 1994. See the Good Times Virus
Hoax FAQ for details: http://www.nsm.smcm.edu/News/GTHoax.html
Mike
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Michael Ehli <mehli@efn.org>
Subject: RE: >>>>> VIRUS ALERT - VERY IMPORTANT <<<<<
Date: 04 Sep 1996 19:36:50 -0700
------ =_NextPart_000_01BB9A98.8805AB40
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
It's a virus all right, but it's not a computer virus.
It's a cognitive virus, which causes otherwise reasonable people
to act irrationally, act paranoid, and post garbage to newsgroups
and mailing lists about non-existent computer viruses. I see
that it's spread to your brain.
It's okay, it's a short-lived disease, with no lasting effects, unless
you did something very stupid with your hard drive in an attempt
to eradicate the "virus".
It's a hoax. Worse yet, it's an old hoax. There's no way a mail
message can cause damage simply by downloading it.
YHBT. HTH. HAND.
--Mike
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: TheMgnt@aol.com
Subject: Re: AoN Beat Box 12"
Date: 05 Sep 1996 03:48:20 -0400
>> So, I've recently purchased the Beat Box 12" (ztis 108 - Diversions one
and
>> two) and was rather annoyed to find Diversion Two played Close to the
Edit.
>"Close (to the Edit)" is an edited version of "Beat Box (Diversion Two)".
>The only difference is that Beat Box (Diversion Two) has some extra
>repetition in the break.
Ah! Well, now that I've actually bothered to sit down and listen to the
track I notice the extra 30 secs in there. Why bother to chop it in the
first place?
Thanks,
-paul
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Lazlo Nibble" <lazlo@swcp.com>
Subject: >>>>> VIRUS ALERT - VERY IMPORTANT <<<<<
Date: 05 Sep 1996 13:56:38 -0600 (MDT)
Apparently someone didn't bother to read the list intro message:
* The usual rules of list courtesy apply: avoid long signatures (four lines
is a good size), trim down quotations from previous postings, and try
to keep messages relevant to the list's topic (no general advertisements,
"warnings" about viruses, chain letters, and so forth).
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
--
::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo)
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Neal Sumsion <neal@sums.demon.co.uk>
Subject: artofsilence.co.uk
Date: 05 Sep 1996 13:50:52 +0100
I got a copy of the CD artofsilence.co.uk yesterday and have listened to
it a couple of times now.
I know it's not ZTT, but it is JJ, so I'm not talking about it in the
wrong place, am I?
Actually, I can't understand why no one else on the list has mentioned
that they've got it. Am I the only mug that still can't resist buying
this sort of stuff?
Sadly, I am *very* disappointed with the album. To me it sounds like a
bad mixture of Jean Michel Jarre influenced synths, and some really
awful drum machine programming. The famous AON sampling is very minimal.
Usually I listen to a new CD from start to finish when I get it home,
but two thirds through this one I just had to switch it off to give my
ears a rest - it gets really monotonous. I'm not sure what the problem
is, but I would guess that JJ is severely missing the 'musical
creativity' of Anne Dudley. Most tracks lack any melody or 'musical'
theme. For instance the Piano in 'West 4' starts off promising but then
does nothing but repeat the same four chords all the time. Actually as I
sit and listen to it now, I could just imagine Neil Tennant about to
start singing some boring PSB vocals!
'4:34 am' also starts off promising - atmospheric weather effect,
glockenspiel, deep sampled voice, excellent distorted guitar sample, but
then the dreaded *basic* drum machine pattern starts up and it just goes
down hill from there. Nothing interesting happens and the repetitiveness
becomes tedious to me.
'Who are you' has another PSB type drum, and reminds me very much of
Blue Monday by New Order (without the words of course). It's got a nice
deep funky base line, but once again I find it too repetitive (as
opposed to 'creative').
'Giant Below' has the lowest of the low drum effects - a really
horrible, loud, prominent, repetitive *hand clap*! It reminds me of the
sort of thing I used to do when I was 17 playing with my friend's TR707
when I didn't have a clue how to use it. Sorry, but I just can't listen
to this.
Oh no, it's the PSB's annoying hi hat (sp?) in 'Giant Above' that kills
this one for me. I just can't understand why JJ has made the drum
machine the most prominent instrument on this album when his gift is
clearly with making the synths do what he wants, not the drum machine.
'Giant Within' seems fairly non discript to me. Another heavy base line,
another basic bit of drum programming and that lady with a headache from
Pink Floyd (but, sorry, **nowhere** near as good) at the end as it fades
out.
'Messanger Of Heaven' would fit on Below The Waste, it's got that sort
of sound about it, with some interesting voice sampling and composition.
It seems quite 'perky' after the previous few tracks.
'Fear No Malice' could easily be a JMJarre track with its sweeping
synths and slow build up. Oh, and don't forget the lady with a headache!
I am sorry to be so negative. I had been looking forward to getting the
album and really wanted to enjoy it - afterall I paid L14 for it - so I
started listening in a positive frame of mind, but after about 30
minutes that had all 'drained away'.
To be fair, it has been put together well and is nicely polished.
Certainly if you like prominent drum machines, heavy base lines and
'moody' stuff you'll like this, but if you're hoping for an AON followup
I suspect you will be disappointed.
I'm listening to it for a third time right now, and I am starting to
appreciate a little more, but I can't imagine that I'll be listening to
it too often in the future.
Don't forget, everything written above is just my *personal* taste and
my *personal* reaction - not necessarily the truth.
Oh yeah, and the icing on the cake - the free floppy disk supplied in
the case is MAC formatted. :-(
--
Neal Surrey,
neal@sums.demon.co.uk England.
+--- -----=----- ----+
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Joerg Fitzner" <fitzner@uran.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Subject: Re: artofsilence.co.uk
Date: 06 Sep 1996 13:21:17 -0600
On Sep 5, 1:50pm, Neal Sumsion wrote:
> Subject: artofsilence.co.uk
>
> I got a copy of the CD artofsilence.co.uk yesterday [...]
> I know it's not ZTT, but it is JJ, so I'm not talking about it in the
> wrong place, am I?
I hope so.
> Actually, I can't understand why no one else on the list has mentioned
> that they've got it. Am I the only mug that still can't resist buying
> this sort of stuff?
I am also trying to get it, but it seems to take a bit longer for it to get
through to Germany.
> Sadly, I am *very* disappointed with the album. [...]
> The famous AON sampling is very minimal.
> [...]
> To be fair, it has been put together well and is nicely polished.
> Certainly if you like prominent drum machines, heavy base lines and
> 'moody' stuff you'll like this, but if you're hoping for an AON followup
> I suspect you will be disappointed.
Well, I think, hoping for an AON followup - though I can very much
understand the desire for it - is the big mistake. OK, it's easy to
say this in retrospective, now that I know you've been disappointed.
But even if the original AON lineup would reform, they couldn't fulfill
the task.
The initial stuff is *unique* - and that just says it all; you can't touch
it. If they would reform now, whatever they make would probably be wrong
and disappoint you. Because, if they would make the same kind of
music today, *that* would be boring (and could be regarded as a rip-off of
their own). And if they make something different you'd be disappointed
because it is different (like with AOS).
I can't exclude myself from this high-expectation-dilemma! It really is a
pitty. But I think all one can do is sit back and enjoy the originals, in
the first degree.
So it's always very hard to give an objective judgement on new creations from
classic ZTT artists [gods ;-)]. But sometimes they bring something new that
is really good, if you can let your preconceptions go.
(The same's also the case for Frankie, Propaganda etc...)
> Don't forget, everything written above is just my *personal* taste and
> my *personal* reaction [...]
Sure; the same is valid for my thoughts of course.
BTW: I like some of the West 4 mixes and Giant Above very much.
Greetings
Joerg
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Neal Sumsion <neal@sums.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: artofsilence.co.uk
Date: 06 Sep 1996 13:14:38 +0100
In article <9609061321.ZM22771@neptun.informatik.uni-bonn.de>, Joerg
Fitzner <fitzner@uran.informatik.uni-bonn.de> writes
>Well, I think, hoping for an AON followup - though I can very much
>understand the desire for it - is the big mistake. OK, it's easy to
>say this in retrospective, now that I know you've been disappointed.
>But even if the original AON lineup would reform, they couldn't fulfill
>the task.
I understand your point, although I don't really agree with you.
Why do you think that if JJ got together with Gary Langan and Anne
Dudley again that they could no longer function as a group with the same
sort of creativity and inspiration that they did before? It seems to me
that you're saying that AON did everything they could in their
particular style, then ran out of ideas before they split up.
The main point that I was trying to make was that JJ's music, without
the assistance of Anne and Gary, lacks *creativity*. It's fairly middle
of the road, safe and (sadly) monotonous.
>The initial stuff is *unique* - and that just says it all; you can't touch
>it. If they would reform now, whatever they make would probably be wrong
>and disappoint you. Because, if they would make the same kind of
>music today, *that* would be boring (and could be regarded as a rip-off of
>their own). And if they make something different you'd be disappointed
>because it is different (like with AOS).
I disagree with this very strongly. I enjoyed experiencing and hearing
how AON developed from one album to the next (in the China days,
regardless of ZTT!), and was never disappointed despite the way their
style clearly changed. It remained creative, new, interesting and (as
you say) unique.
I wrongly assumed that artofsilence was going to be the next step in the
development of the sounds I had previously enjoyed. And I'll tell you
why...
The name 'artofsilence' is a blatant association with Art Of Noise.
The 'A' logo on the sleeve (and also on the www site) is a blatant copy
of the 'A' logo that AON used on the ZTT 'masks' and the China sleeves,
further reinforcing the association.
The style of the promotional material, ie the sleeve and the www site
for example, is very reminiscent of AON.
I don't blame JJ, or Permanent Records for trying maximise sales by
making AON 'fans' (in it's loosest sense!) aware that this is a
recording by a guy who *was* in Art Of Noise, but I do think that
dressing the album up as though it *actually* is AON (or near as dammit)
is extremely misleading.
Imagine if Anne Dudley did the same sort of thing for Ancient & Modern!
You wouldn't be too pleased about the result would you?
>I can't exclude myself from this high-expectation-dilemma! It really is a
>pitty. But I think all one can do is sit back and enjoy the originals, in
>the first degree.
And not buy any new stuff until one hear's it? I wouldn't have half my
ZTT collection if I'd done that.
>So it's always very hard to give an objective judgement on new creations from
>classic ZTT artists [gods ;-)]. But sometimes they bring something new that
>is really good, if you can let your preconceptions go.
There are elements of aos that are good and that I do like. It's just a
shame that *overall* this album is a disappointment (to me).
>(The same's also the case for Frankie, Propaganda etc...)
>
>
Holly didn't/doesn't try and pass off his recordings as FGTH. He doesn't
use the FGTH logo. Do you get my drift?
>BTW: I like some of the West 4 mixes and Giant Above very much.
>
So would I, if they were on a Pet Shop Boys album (with vocals of
course).
>
>Greetings
>Joerg
>
cheers
--
Neal Surrey,
neal@sums.demon.co.uk England.
+--- -----=----- ----+
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "Lazlo Nibble" <lazlo@swcp.com>
Subject: Re: artofsilence.co.uk
Date: 06 Sep 1996 21:27:44 -0600 (MDT)
> It seems to me that you're saying that AON did everything they could in
> their particular style, then ran out of ideas before they split up.
As far as I'm concerned, "Below The Waste" proves that particular theory
quite handily.
--
::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo)
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: mark wasiel <hbrtv015@email.csun.edu>
Subject: Re: artofsilence.co.uk
Date: 07 Sep 1996 01:44:50 -0700
Neal Sumsion wrote:
>
> In article <9609061321.ZM22771@neptun.informatik.uni-bonn.de>, Joerg
> Fitzner <fitzner@uran.informatik.uni-bonn.de> writes
>
> >Well, I think, hoping for an AON followup - though I can very much
> >understand the desire for it - is the big mistake. OK, it's easy to
> >say this in retrospective, now that I know you've been disappointed.
> >But even if the original AON lineup would reform, they couldn't fulfill
> >the task.
I was going to say that I thought the original AON lineup could fulfill
the task, but the more I thought about it I realized it was unlikely.
Trevor and Paul aren't really on the cutting edge of music anymore.
> Why do you think that if JJ got together with Gary Langan and Anne
> Dudley again that they could no longer function as a group with the same
> sort of creativity and inspiration that they did before? It seems to me
> that you're saying that AON did everything they could in their
> particular style, then ran out of ideas before they split up.
I agree with Lazlo on this and say that "Below the Waste" is a good
example of that. Gary wasn't even on it anyway.
> The main point that I was trying to make was that JJ's music, without
> the assistance of Anne and Gary, lacks *creativity*. It's fairly middle
> of the road, safe and (sadly) monotonous.
Now I finally got the West 4 12" and I have to say it's alright. I was
expecting the worse but it's pretty decent ambient/house music. I think
the Art of Silence is a good name. It's quite the opposite of the Art
of Noise. More ambient. Not so harsh.
BTW, did someone already post the info on the white vinyl 12" of west
four AX12X2? I seem to remember a promo but I don't remember the actual
release or not. Someone let me know and I'll post it if necessary.
> >The initial stuff is *unique* - and that just says it all; you can't touch
> >it. If they would reform now, whatever they make would probably be wrong
> >and disappoint you. Because, if they would make the same kind of
> >music today, *that* would be boring (and could be regarded as a rip-off of
> >their own). And if they make something different you'd be disappointed
> >because it is different (like with AOS).
Well I don't know about boring... not new definitely but I don't think
it would be boring.
> I disagree with this very strongly. I enjoyed experiencing and hearing
> how AON developed from one album to the next (in the China days,
> regardless of ZTT!), and was never disappointed despite the way their
> style clearly changed. It remained creative, new, interesting and (as
> you say) unique.
I thought In Visible Silence while a good album was really a rip off of
"Who's Afraid". It had the slow piece "Camillla" which could have been
"Moments in Love". It had the hip, funky piece "Legs" which could have
been "Beat Box". There are probably others but I don't remember. "In
No Sense? Nonsense!" was interesting but a little more original than IVS
I think. Yet, I don't like that album as much as IVS.
> I wrongly assumed that artofsilence was going to be the next step in the
> development of the sounds I had previously enjoyed. And I'll tell you
> why...
> The name 'artofsilence' is a blatant association with Art Of Noise.
Yes, but it's Silence versus Noise. Opposites. I think AOS is a good
description of the music. Although I'm not sure how "art"ful it is. It
definitely is sort of what I think the AON should have been doing 5
years ago if they were still together and "with it".
> The 'A' logo on the sleeve (and also on the www site) is a blatant copy
> of the 'A' logo that AON used on the ZTT 'masks' and the China sleeves,
> further reinforcing the association.
Sure they want you to know JJ is on it. I thought it was clever. Too
good of an icon to pass up.
> The style of the promotional material, ie the sleeve and the www site
> for example, is very reminiscent of AON.
I would disagree with this. I think the artwork is very representative
of much of the ambient/house/dance stuff being put out.
> I don't blame JJ, or Permanent Records for trying maximise sales by
> making AON 'fans' (in it's loosest sense!) aware that this is a
> recording by a guy who *was* in Art Of Noise, but I do think that
> dressing the album up as though it *actually* is AON (or near as dammit)
> is extremely misleading.
I really don't think it is misleading at all. You'd really have to know
the AON to even tell what the relationship is at least from the 12" I
have.
> >I can't exclude myself from this high-expectation-dilemma! It really is a
> >pitty. But I think all one can do is sit back and enjoy the originals, in
> >the first degree.
The originals are great but wouldn't be right to come out in 1996. AOS
at least is in the right decade although not really breaking new ground.
> And not buy any new stuff until one hear's it? I wouldn't have half my
> ZTT collection if I'd done that.
Yeah but ZTT was under the direction of Trevor Horn and Paul Morley.
Trevor was a huge producer in the early to mid 80s. After 87, things
digressed somewhat with ZTT. Now it's just a label stuck with a major
label that wants it to see a lot of records rather than release anything
intersting (not that they never do anymore).
> >BTW: I like some of the West 4 mixes and Giant Above very much.
>
> So would I, if they were on a Pet Shop Boys album (with vocals of
> course).
I'm sorry but the West 4 mixes and Giant Above would never appear on a
Pet Shop Boys album.
Don't take this personally, but I just don't think you have an
appreciation for modern dance/electronic music. It's really quite a
different beast than the 80s.
throwing in my two bits,
mark
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From: "Lazlo Nibble" <lazlo@swcp.com>
Subject: Re: artofsilence.co.uk
Date: 07 Sep 1996 15:28:19 -0600 (MDT)
> I thought In Visible Silence while a good album was really a rip off of
> "Who's Afraid". It had the slow piece "Camillla" which could have been
> "Moments in Love". It had the hip, funky piece "Legs" which could have
> been "Beat Box".
In retrospect, In Visible Silence may well have been nothing more than AoN
trying to prove that they didn't need Trevor Horn's help to sound like AoN.
As they released more material it became clear that they really weren't
interested in the ZTT-era sound for its own sake -- which is a shame. I
think they could have progressed musically within that framework without
it sounding stale. Instead their sound just fragmented into a million
pieces.
--
::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo)
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From: mark wasiel <hbrtv015@email.csun.edu>
Subject: trevor horn dances!
Date: 08 Sep 1996 01:26:45 -0700
For those of you who can get VH-1 here in the states, try to check out
the Tina Turner 30 minute special "1 to One". In the first five
minutes, Tina talks about the new album and mentions Trevor. Then there
is a strange shot of Trevor dancing around in the studio. I have a
Snappy video capture so I'm going to try and take a scan this week.
I'll let you know when I post it.
mark
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From: "Joerg Fitzner" <fitzner@uran.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Subject: (Who's Surprised By) The Art Of Noise
Date: 09 Sep 1996 16:38:08 -0600
Great, there's finally some traffic here again!
On Sep 6, 1:14pm, Neal Sumsion wrote:
> Subject: Re: artofsilence.co.uk
> In article <9609061321.ZM22771@neptun.informatik.uni-bonn.de>, Joerg
> Fitzner <fitzner@uran.informatik.uni-bonn.de> writes
>
> > [...] I think, hoping for an AON followup [...] is the big mistake.
> > [...]
>
> I understand your point, although I don't really agree with you.
>
> Why do you think that if JJ got together with Gary Langan and Anne
> Dudley again that they could no longer function as a group with the same
> sort of creativity and inspiration that they did before?
No, perhaps you didn't understand exaclty what I meant. My main point was in
the first sentence:
I'm not saying that a Re-AON *couldn't* make great music. I'm saying that I
wouldn't *expect* them to do so(1).
And I tried to form a thesis that not-expecting-anything would be the attitude
which is most likely to result in fancying the new stuff.
(1) And I'd be the last one, who wouldn't like to be surprised by them!
> The main point that I was trying to make was that JJ's music, without
> the assistance of Anne and Gary, lacks *creativity*. It's fairly middle
> of the road, safe and (sadly) monotonous.
To a certain degree, I agree.
When I try to compare it to old AON stuff (which is hardly possible), I'd say
the new AOS stuff is relatively bad. But compared most other music in the
world, it's still rather good.
So, attempting to put it in an absolute personal order, I do like it.
But that's subjective of course. And that's natural.
Further, we must say that AOS is a very different genre than AON (although I
hate such pigeonholing).
> The name 'artofsilence' is a blatant association with Art Of Noise.
> The 'A' logo on the sleeve (and also on the www site) is a blatant copy
> of the 'A' logo that AON used on the ZTT 'masks' and the China sleeves,
> further reinforcing the association.
Hmm, if you like.
But still more appropriate than any old crap band calling themselves Art Of
Whatever :-)
> >I can't exclude myself from this high-expectation-dilemma! It really is a
> >pitty. But I think all one can do is sit back and enjoy the originals, in
> >the first degree.
>
> And not buy any new stuff until one hear's it? I wouldn't have half my
> ZTT collection if I'd done that.
No, that's why I said 'in the first degree'. And to be honest, I very rarely
do sit back and enjoy the originals myself! (What a shame)
> > [...]
> Holly didn't/doesn't try and pass off his recordings as FGTH. He doesn't
> use the FGTH logo. Do you get my drift?
Yes, there's something to it.
> > BTW: I like some of the West 4 mixes and Giant Above very much.
>
> So would I, if they were on a Pet Shop Boys album (with vocals of
> course).
Come on! That's just what I tried to say about preconceptions...
Isn't it actually about the music - and not the sleeve or the name?
Till next time
Joerg
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From: mark wasiel <hbrtv015@email.csun.edu>
Subject: trevor horn jpgs up
Date: 09 Sep 1996 00:28:33 -0700
http://home.aol.com/wasiel
is the place to go to see the most recent jpg of producer Trevor Horn.
See him at a serious reflective time in the studio during the recording
of Tina Turner's new album... then see him and Tina dance around.
For now, the scans are a little fuzzy due to my crappy VCR but I should
be able to get a new one in the future and the sharpness will definitely
get better. I'll post when that happens.
Enjoy!
mark
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From: Fraser Macdonald <fraser@cs.strath.ac.uk>
Subject: A cheery hello to you all!
Date: 09 Sep 1996 15:50:56 +0100
Greetings,
Just joined the list...this isn't the first mailing list I've been
on, but it's the first where you're 'encouraged' to introduce
yourself. Hmmmm...here goes:
Well, my name's Fraser and I reside in sunny Scotland.
My real interest in the list is all things 808. Basically, I love 'em
to death. Listening to Pacific all those years ago changed my life,
musically speaking. I think Don Solaris is a darn fine album,
although it took me a couple of listens to get into it.
And, er, that's it really.
Cheers,
Fraser
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From: "Joerg Fitzner" <fitzner@uran.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Subject: Re: artofsilence.co.uk
Date: 09 Sep 1996 17:12:43 -0600
On Sep 7, 1:44am, mark wasiel wrote:
> Subject: Re: artofsilence.co.uk
>
> Now I finally got the West 4 12" and I have to say it's alright. I was
> expecting the worse [...]
Yeah, that's the whole trick... ;-)
> but it's pretty decent ambient/house music. [...]
> BTW, did someone already post the info on the white vinyl 12" of west
> four AX12X2? I seem to remember a promo but I don't remember the actual
> release or not. Someone let me know and I'll post it if necessary.
Does your 12" also have the 'AX003' matrix and contain four tracks?
Meanwhile I've managed to get both the 12"es and (thirdly) the CDS. And it
turned out the first 12"'s labels are totally wrong! Not only the missing
track on side one, but also BOTH the track on side two are not what the should
be according to the label. [Another similarity to ZTT!]
I wrote it all down at home. I can send the details next time.
> No Sense? Nonsense!" was interesting but a little more original than IVS
> I think. Yet, I don't like that album as much as IVS.
I like it as much as IVS.
Moreover, No(n)Sense's got the best sampled airplane ever flying through your
living room!
> The originals are great but wouldn't be right to come out in 1996. AOS
> at least is in the right decade although not really breaking new ground.
That's true.
Bye
Joerg
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From: Adam J Weitzman <weitzman@individual.com>
Subject: (Who's Surprised By) The following scheduled release...?
Date: 09 Sep 1996 12:08:51 -0400
I read this in EAR/Rational's pre-order list:
Art of Noise - Drum & Bass Collection CD/DLP $22.50/$21
D&B bigshots remix/deconstruct/massacre AoN.
Erm, this has the potential to be mind-blowing, but it also has the
potential to be even less entertaining that _The_FON_Mixes_ (which,
frankly, only has 2 or 3 really good tracks on it). I wonder what label
it's on...
If anyone gets more info on this release, please let us know!
--
Adam J Weitzman ----- Individual, Inc. ----- weitzman@individual.com
"I love the music of the 20th century!" - Bruce Willis, "12 Monkeys"
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From: "Joerg Fitzner" <fitzner@uran.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Subject: West 4 Confusion
Date: 12 Sep 1996 15:28:36 -0600
Here's the details to the West 4 records I have:
* Art Of Silence: West 4
12": 1996 UK (Permanent: AX12X1 {AX 003}) [neutral cover]
A: 10:06 West 4 (Man From Tooting Mix)
4:40 [West 4 (Radio Edit)] - unlisted
B: 7:02 West 4 (Chiswick Mix) - mislabeled to be "Giant Above"
8:31 West 4 (Crowd Control Dub) - labeled "(Samples)"
12": 1996 UK (Axiomattic/Permanent(/Vital): AX12X2) [title-stickered nc;
white-vinyl]
A: 8:31 West 4 (Crowd Control Dub)
B: 7:02 West 4 (Chiswick Mix)
7:34 Giant Within
CD5: 1996 UK (Axiomattic/Permanent(/Vital): AXCDS1)
4:40 West 4 (Radio Edit)
10:06 West 4 (Man From Tooting Mix)
9:38 Giant Above
-Joerg
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From: BestButter@aol.com
Subject: pure propaganda
Date: 15 Sep 1996 16:43:28 -0400
hi, everyone.
i'm new to the list, and i guess i really came on board with the hopes of
finding other propaganda-type friends.
i have a query: are there any other available (legit or gray area) recordings
from the band (other than "wish" and "1234")?
jas
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From: bortz@postoffice.ptd.net (J Bortz)
Subject: Propaganda is GREAT!!!
Date: 15 Sep 1996 18:42:10 -0400 (EDT)
Well, Jas, there was an album called "Wishful Thinking". That was a remix
album of the origional album of A Secret Wish. However, there were tons of
singles from the album A Secret Wish and 1234, but those were the only three
albums released!
If you don't have Wishful Thinking, get it before it goes out of print!
Its a great album!
If you like A Secret Wish, try and get the album from the band called ACT.
Claudia Brucken "the singer of Propaganda A Secret Wish" is the vocalist!
Its my favorite album. She also did a solo album called "Love: And A
Million Other Things", thats good too. However, ACT and the solo album are
both out of print.:(
Cheers, Josh
Keep relatin' to the State of 808
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From: DAVID FELSTEAD <lr71@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: Re: pure propaganda
Date: 16 Sep 1996 11:05:52 GMT
Hi jas great to have Prop/ Brucken fan on board. J.Bortz covered =
the albums and
i`m in the middle of listing the stuff i`ve got ..promo`s , videos , phot=
o`s , etc.. i have
3 copies of the Brucken lp on vinyl... Claudia is featured on a recent =
single by "the
brain" called "i`ll find a way".. there was also a track with Glen Gregor=
y (heaven 17)
called "when your heart runs out of time".......
Incidentally i will endevour to get my lists done for everyone this =
week..
cheers,
Dave.Felstead
> hi, everyone.
>
> i'm new to the list, and i guess i really came on board with the hopes =
of
> finding other propaganda-type friends.
>
> i have a query: are there any other available (legit or gray area) reco=
rdings
> from the band (other than "wish" and "1234")?
>
> jas
>
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From: Fraser Macdonald <fraser@cs.strath.ac.uk>
Subject: State to State
Date: 17 Sep 1996 11:42:45 +0100
OK,
I joined this months ago and got the State to State CD, but I
was looking at 808's web site today and it mentions a quarterly
magazine. I've never got a copy of this. Anyone else seen it?
Fraser
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From: bortz@postoffice.ptd.net (J Bortz)
Subject: Re: State to State
Date: 17 Sep 1996 09:55:15 -0400 (EDT)
Nope, as far as I know, no one ever got a magazine. We "members", were
supposed to get Azura postcards too but that never fell through. 808 did
say that they hoped to do another StateToState cd because they have so many
finished songs, they don't know what to do with them all. So lets see if
that falls through or not.
Cheers, Josh
Keep relatin' to the State of 808
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From: Adam J Weitzman <weitzman@individual.com>
Subject: Re: State to State
Date: 17 Sep 1996 10:42:50 -0400
Does anyone know if the CD is still available? It's still advertised on
the homepage...?
--
Adam J Weitzman ----- Individual, Inc. ----- weitzman@individual.com
"I love the music of the 20th century!" - Bruce Willis, "12 Monkeys"
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From: Fraser Macdonald <fraser@cs.strath.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: State to State
Date: 17 Sep 1996 16:15:40 +0100
J Bortz wrote:
>
> Nope, as far as I know, no one ever got a magazine. We "members", were
> supposed to get Azura postcards too but that never fell through. 808 did
> say that they hoped to do another StateToState cd because they have so many
> finished songs, they don't know what to do with them all. So lets see if
> that falls through or not.
>
Er, I hate to say this, but I got an Azura postcard...do you maybe mean
Bond?
Fraser
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From: bortz@postoffice.ptd.net (J Bortz)
Subject: Re: State to State
Date: 17 Sep 1996 13:34:33 -0400 (EDT)
Nope, the cd is not available as far as I know. It was a limited item to
first come first serve fan club members. However, I heard a rumor that the
vinyl exchange in Manchester, England has a copy. They wanted something
like 15 pounds for it.
Cheers, Josh
>Does anyone know if the CD is still available? It's still advertised on
>the homepage...?
>
Keep relatin' to the State of 808
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From: DAVID FELSTEAD <lr71@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: PROPAGANDA FOR SALE
Date: 18 Sep 1996 12:33:47 GMT
Hi everyone.....
this is part one of the list of mainly Propagand=
a/Brucken stuff that i
am willing to sell..
PROPAGANDA...HEAVEN GIVE ME (CD SINGLE IN BOX) =A37
" " " (12") =
=A34
" " " " WHITE =
LABEL =A35
" " ... ONLY ONE WORD 10" WITH PRINTS =
=A35
.....HEAVEN GIVE ME (VHS PROMO VIDEO) =
=A36
ZTT .. VALUE OF ENTERTAINMENT VIDEO (VHS) =
=A320
ACT.. SNOBBERY (PROMO VIDEO) ON ISLAND COMP. =A315
ANDREW POPPY .. 32 FRAMES (PROMO VID) "" " =A31=
5
C.BRUCKEN.. ABSOLUTE CD SINGLE =
=A310
" "" ( 7" SINGLE) =
=A33
" " " " IN BOX + 3 PRINTS =
=A37
" " (12") =
=A35
C.BRUCKEN .. KISS LIKE ETHER ( 12" IN BOX) =
=A37
A.PIGALLE.. HE STRANGER ( 7" JAPANESE) =
=A38
ACT.... CANT ESCAPE (12") =
=A35
" " (7") =
=A33
C.BRUCKEN... LOVE AND A MILLION LP (VINYL) =A3=
10
T.LEER NO.1 (12") =
=A36
" SCALE OF 10 (12") =
=A36
" ALL ABOUT YOU (12") =
=A37
PROPAGANDA ..BEJEWELLED PROMO 12" =A31=
5
GLENN + CLAUDIA .. WHEN YOUR ( SHAPED P.DISC) =A38
" " " (12") =
=A38
THERE IS A LOT MORE TO FOLLOW.... POPPY,AON,FRANKIE ETC
i have a 3 hour video i`ve put together of all prop/act/brucken promo =
vids
interviews tv appearances includes claudia singing "because the night " =
on j.ross tv
show and act interview with steve lipscom on tomorrows world? but am stil=
l digging it
out.. signed photos.. some live tapes etc...
i am after any brucken stuff or news.....
IF INTERESTED PLEASE E-MAIL ME ON: lr71@dial.pipex.com
"Champagne dreams and caviar wishes"... Dave
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From: Gregory Haugen <ghaugen@mail.med.und.nodak.edu>
Subject: Hello everyone
Date: 18 Sep 1996 16:01:00 -0500
Hello fellow ZTT fans. I am new on the list and just wanted to say 'howdy'.
I am a medical student at the University of North Dakota, USA and first
started listening to Propaganda in 1987; Act in 1989.
Until next time;
Greg Haugen
http://www.med.und.nodak.edu/users/students/ghaugen/HOME.HTM
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From: Mike Brown <mike@hyperreal.com>
Subject: China Records Art of Noise site
Date: 18 Sep 1996 16:27:36 -0700 (PDT)
There are some low-content, totally graphical Art of Noise web pages at
http://www.gold.net/clockworx/art/
The China Records site is at http://www.china.co.uk/china/
Mike
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From: "Joerg Fitzner" <fitzner@uran.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Subject: Re: State to State
Date: 19 Sep 1996 16:51:48 -0600
On Sep 17, 4:15pm, Fraser Macdonald wrote:
> Subject: Re: State to State
> >
> > [...]
> >
>
> Er, I hate to say this, but I got an Azura postcard...do you maybe mean
> Bond?
>
> Fraser
Er, I hate to say this, but I got no postcard...are you maybe James Bond?
Joerg
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From: bortz@postoffice.ptd.net (J Bortz)
Subject: Azura postcards???
Date: 19 Sep 1996 11:58:10 -0400 (EDT)
Just to let everyone know, I E Mailed the 808 crew yesterday, and they
told me that all the Azura postcards went out but some people didn't get
them because of the postal strikes and the stupid mail mix ups. They even
said that some people didn't get the State To State cd's and they had to
send extra copies out. It costed them a TON of money they said. They also
said, and I quote... "There must be alot of postal people around the world
Groovin : to the State of 808". I thought that was funny.
Cheers, Josh
Keep relatin' to the State of 808
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From: DAVID FELSTEAD <lr71@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: ztt for sale
Date: 19 Sep 1996 21:10:23 GMT
Hi.. i listed some Propaganda stuff the other day.. here`s some more =
808 state..optical video vhs =A315
808 state .. ooops w/label 12" 2 mixes =A38
808 state .. pacific w/label 12"
aon.. who`s afraid lp =A36
aon.. close to w/label 12" (12 ztps1) =A36
aon.. below the waste lp =A36
aon ..paranoimia w/label 12" =A36
aon.. into battle with (japanese 12") =A316
FGTH..RELAX 12" SEX MIX =A310
" " ORIGINAL MIX =A312
" WARRIORS ATTACK MIX 12" =A39
"" "" KNIFE MIX =A39
" PLEASUREDOME DOUBLE LP PIC DISC =A316
" LIVERPOOL LP (RUSSIAN) =A39
" WAR 12" P.DISC =A3 9
VARIOUS PROMO VIDEOS.....
IF INTERESTED E-MAIL lr71@dial.pipex.com
best wishes Dave
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From: DAVID FELSTEAD <lr71@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: ztt videos
Date: 21 Sep 1996 18:40:23 GMT
Hi.. i`ve just scoured various official Island/ztt promo videos and =
have
the following to sell.... all vhs
as always looking for Brucken /Propaganda to trade
propaganda.. duel =A310
roy orbison (track from insignificance) =A38
propaganda... dr.mabuse =A310
a.poppy.. amusement =A310
propaganda.. p.machinery =A39
a.pigalle/he stranger+a.poppy 32 frames =A315
Dave..... lr71@dial.pipex.com
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From: Gregory Haugen <ghaugen@mail.med.und.nodak.edu>
Subject: Want to be Immune
Date: 21 Sep 1996 17:44:59 -0500
Hi everyone;
I am trying to find a copy of the single "Absolutely Immune" ZTT VIMM1 by
Act. Can any one help me?
Greg Haugen
3538 N. 11th Ave. # 20 Grand Forks, ND 58201 USA
(701) 772-2912
http://www.med.und.nodak.edu/users/students/ghaugen/HOME.HTM
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From: "Lazlo Nibble" <lazlo@swcp.com>
Subject: TFF vs AoN
Date: 23 Sep 1996 17:55:49 -0600 (MDT)
I like this quote from Roland Orzabal in the booklet of Tears For Fears's new
b-sides-and-mixes compilation (Saturnine Martial and Lunatic):
EMPIRE BUILDING: Created almost entirely from an 8-bit, 2 second sample
of an early Simple Minds drum intro (the mind boggles!!!!). [...] I
think I'd been listening to too much Art of Noise.
I hadn't heard the track in years but he's right, it sounds like something
halfway between Beat Box and The Army Now.
--
::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo)
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From: bortz@postoffice.ptd.net (J Bortz)
Subject: 808 State for sale!
Date: 23 Sep 1996 21:55:12 -0400 (EDT)
Hello all, I am selling the three following 808 State 12" for 10.00 US
dollars each. They are in near perfect condition. First come, first serve,
so let me know! Thanks.
808 State: Cubic / Olympic "REMIXES" 1990 / ZTT :
ZANG 5 TX
808 State: Lift "promo in ZTT sleeve" "unreleased FON mix" 1991 / ZTT :
SAM 839
808 State: 10X10 "promo in ZTT sleeve" 1993 / ZTT :
SAM 1138
Cheers, Josh
Keep relatin' to the State of 808
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From: Chad E Meyer <cmeyer@cs.Buffalo.EDU>
Subject: Re: TFF
Date: 25 Sep 1996 14:01:02 -0400 (EDT)
Is the TFF new compilation available in the US?
Also, is the new OMD out in the US?
And , of course, your opinions on both please.
Thank you
chad meyer
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From: "Lazlo Nibble" <lazlo@swcp.com>
Subject: Re: TFF
Date: 25 Sep 1996 14:13:10 -0600 (MDT)
> Is the TFF new compilation available in the US?
> Also, is the new OMD out in the US?
> And , of course, your opinions on both please.
From what I've heard the new OMD isn't scheduled for release in the US, but
I have a promo copy of the new Tears For Fears compilation so if it's not
out already it will be soon. I like the TFF disc, but it's a mishmash of
stray tracks so obviously it doesn't have any coherence to it.
--
::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo)
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From: Dave Cowen <esch@fische.com>
Subject: Saturnine, Martial and Lunatic (Re: TFF)
Date: 27 Sep 1996 16:41:46 -0500
At 02:13 PM 9/25/96 -0600, you wrote:
>I have a promo copy of the new Tears For Fears compilation so if it's not
>out already it will be soon. I like the TFF disc, but it's a mishmash of
>stray tracks so obviously it doesn't have any coherence to it.
>
>--
>::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo)
The new TFF is indeed available commercially. While it's the mixed bag
mentioned above, it's easily appreciated appreciated by a ZTT fan -- TFF had
the
same combination of Fairlight and pop production skills that Trevor Horn &
musicians demonstrated on ZTT time after time throughout the mid-80's. Empire
Building does sound very much like a track that would feel at home on Into
Battle.
Now, if only one of us ZTT fans could get our hands on the venerable
Fairlight Series IIx (and, preferably, a few PPG Wave synths) so that we can
_continue_ making that particular ZTT and TFF sound. IMHO, it's just not
possible to do what they were doing back then without a pre-series III
Fairlight. Not saying that artists aren't doing _similar_ or even better
things
today (IMHO, FSOL are taking over where Art of Noise left off with In No
Sense),
but that the Fairlight IIx had a breathy/noisy quality unduplicatable by any of
today's high-quality, pristine-sounding samplers, even when using those samplers
at a lower sampling rate.
That's exactly the problem with the new Art of Silence. It's a nice
sounding album, but it sounds generic because it's missing the Fairlight
noises JJ is famous for. Please, someone, bring back that 1/2-second 8-bit
sample, noisy/breathy Fairlight IIx sound! If anyone knows where I can buy
one of the damned things, let me know, and _I'll_ do the Fairlight revival
myself (I could actually make an authentic version of 'Moments in Dub' then! ;)
esch@fische.com
(Eschatfische.) --------------------------------- http://www.fische.com
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From: av578@lafn.org (James Dawson)
Subject: Re: TFF
Date: 25 Sep 1996 15:25:16 -0700
At 02:01 PM 9/25/96 -0400, ztt@xmission.com wrote:
>Is the TFF new compilation available in the US?
>Also, is the new OMD out in the US?
>
>And , of course, your opinions on both please.
>
>Thank you
>
>chad meyer
The Tears for Fears B-sides/rarities album "Saturnine Martial and Lunatic"
is out in the US, and I liked it a lot. It's not one of those "everything
and what we found under the kitchen sink" albums that only a true fan of the
group would enjoy -- it really does hold together, and without any wild
swings in quality over the years that are covered. However, I would not buy
it just for the Art of Noise "soundalike" track, since that is the only song
of its type on the album.
The only thing that bothered me about the TFF album is that Curt Smith has
been rendered a virtual "non-person" by Roland Orzabal. Curt is mentioned
NOWHERE in the liner notes. There must have been some VERY bad blood between
Curt and Roland before Curt spun off into solo-land and Roland carried on
with the TFF band name on "Elemental" and "Raoul and the Kings of Spain."
Anyone have any of the ugly details that they would care to share?
--James Dawson
av578@lafn.org
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From: JW1253@ACSPR1.acs.brockport.edu
Subject: re: ztt Digest V2 #7
Date: 25 Sep 1996 19:48:55 EDT
hello, my name is jason and i am pretty much new to the list. i was
wondering if anyone from the list could send me a mix tape so i could
review it in my zine i am putting out called pyschocandy. well, i am
looking forward to see more of this and if you would like to send me
a mix, please e mail me at jw1253@acspr1.acs.brockport.edu
thanks
jason
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From: "Geoff Davies" <GEDAVIES@us.oracle.com>
Subject: Anne Dudley
Date: 25 Sep 1996 22:53:25 -0700
I am sure that many of you have seen this but there's a nice article (and
picture) at the following URL:
http://www.dotmusic.com/MWtalentdudley.html
Geoff.
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From: Soeren Larsen <sorenl@kom.auc.dk>
Subject: Congratulations and Relax
Date: 26 Sep 1996 08:09:47 +0200 (MET DST)
Hallo'n'hurray.
Thirteen years for the debut release on ZTT gentlemen! Moments in sound.
I would like to know what you think about the mix titles of Relax. I think
they are slighty wrong in the discography. To avoid confusion I'll refer to
the tracks by the running time.
There's the 7:20 version which is like a "12" mix" of the 7"/album version.
I think that version is the 'sex mix'. Why? Because why should a UK 12"
version be called 'u.s. mix'? And 'most mislabled sex mix' sounds more like
'sex mix' being the right title and the other titles for this version being
wrong.
The 16:24 version is called 'sex mix' in the discography. This version is very
different from the album version and I think it's the 'original mix'. It says
so on my 12" anyway. The 8:20 version is supposed to be an edit of the 16:24
version and it's called 'new york mix' in the discog. No comment.
What do you think?
I have another question. Could anyone please tell me what the 'checkerboard
sleeve' is like and what the 'two bodies' or 'bodies' is like? This makes me
wonder, do anyone of you concider making a ZTT WWW-site. What about you Lazlo,
you once advertised for texts/images/ect. Any plans?
I was offline during the summer, but I followed the talk on the list via the
digest files which is accessable from WWW. I found out how great the digest
files are and it's sad to see that some of them are incomplete (especially
April and June). I know there were some problems in the spring, some of us
didn't recieve all the mail etc. But the point is: Is is possible that the
digest files can be recovered. Lazlo is it something you can do. If not it
might be a good idea if we collect all the mail from one another.
PS. I believe Paul Morley is able to fly !-:
.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-.
.Elevative Music Appetence Is Lovely.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-.
.____ ____ _ __ ____ _ ___ __ ___ _ __ ____ ____ _ ___ .
.(___ | / | |/ |___| |/ | | ____) |/ (___ |___| |/ |.
.____/ |_/_| | |___ | | _|_ |___| | ____/ |___ | |.
.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-.
.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-._.-sorenl - Denmark - sorenl@kom.auc.dk.
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From: "Henrik Lundstroem" <94K068@chestud.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: Saturnine, Martial and Lunatic (Re: TFF)
Date: 26 Sep 1996 15:44:23 GMT +0100
> The new TFF is indeed available commercially. While it's the mixed bag
> mentioned above, it's easily appreciated appreciated by a ZTT fan -- TFF had
> the
> same combination of Fairlight and pop production skills that Trevor Horn &
> musicians demonstrated on ZTT time after time throughout the mid-80's. Empire
> Building does sound very much like a track that would feel at home on Into
> Battle.
>
> Now, if only one of us ZTT fans could get our hands on the venerable
> Fairlight Series IIx (and, preferably, a few PPG Wave synths) so that we can
> _continue_ making that particular ZTT and TFF sound.
I have a PPG Waveterm - sometimes I load sounddisk 84-06 and
recreate the intro of The world is my Oyster. The same sounddisk also
contains the Cathedral Choir used on WTTP and P-Machinery. Other
TCH-PPG sounds: the bass on Two Tribes, the chord sound in Look of
Love etc etc.
Get a CMI IIx and a Linndrum - you can then recreate a lot of AoN
stuff. Add a Simmons set - instant Dr Mabuse (note how they have
combined the two CMI II sounds "Vocal1" and "Strings1" used in the
intro...).
A lot of the Synclavier drum samples used in TCH productions can be heard on the
new Ilio "Synclavier" sample CDs. Speaking of the mighty Synclav, I
have an old NED ad where TCH is interviewed (he explains why he has a
NED system).
IMHO, it's just not
> possible to do what they were doing back then without a pre-series III
> Fairlight. Not saying that artists aren't doing _similar_ or even better
> things
> today (IMHO, FSOL are taking over where Art of Noise left off with In No
> Sense),
> but that the Fairlight IIx had a breathy/noisy quality unduplicatable by any of
> today's high-quality, pristine-sounding samplers, even when using those samplers
> at a lower sampling rate.
Listen to the CMI II (not the IIx) - it sounds even "worse" - i
would say "even better". The CMI II sounds more dull and
is used extensively on the fourth Peter Gabriel album.
Even the CMI III (pre-XDR, pre-rev.8) has a special breathy quality
(when sounds are transposed) - I really love the sound of that
machine.
> That's exactly the problem with the new Art of Silence. It's a nice
> sounding album, but it sounds generic because it's missing the Fairlight
> noises JJ is famous for. Please, someone, bring back that 1/2-second 8-bit
> sample, noisy/breathy Fairlight IIx sound! If anyone knows where I can buy
> one of the damned things, let me know, and _I'll_ do the Fairlight revival
> myself (I could actually make an authentic version of 'Moments in Dub' then! ;)
On the IIx you have 2 (!) secs of sampling...
There is a company in London that are specialized in s/h Fairlights,
but I don't remember their name.
Henrik.
Henrik Lundstroem
Chemistry student at Chalmers University of Technology,
Gothenburg, Sweden
Stalivari shout "HEUREKA!!" as the signal for invention par excellence
"Mrs Peel, we're needed!"
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From: "Joerg Fitzner" <fitzner@uran.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Subject: Re: Saturnine, Martial and Lunatic (Re: TFF)
Date: 26 Sep 1996 16:18:07 -0600
On Sep 26, 3:44pm, Henrik Lundstroem wrote:
> [...]
>
> A lot of the Synclavier drum samples used in TCH productions [...]
Yeah, those Synclavier sounds are magic!
I'm absolutely not an expert in that, but I always had the feeling the
Synclavier was the synth which created those incredible percussion sounds.
> Speaking of the mighty Synclav, I have an old NED ad where TCH is
> interviewed (he explains why he has a NED system).
Could you scan/OCR or type-in that interview? That would be really great!
> > [...]
> Listen to the CMI II (not the IIx) - it sounds even "worse" - i
> would say "even better". The CMI II sounds more dull and
> is used extensively on the fourth Peter Gabriel album.
Isn't that the one (a/k/a Security), which has "Shock The Monkey" on it?
I think I remeber "Shock The Monkey" has been recorded at Sarm West.
-Joerg
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From: av578@lafn.org (James Dawson)
Subject: A Silly Question
Date: 26 Sep 1996 08:19:57 -0700
With all of the synclavier messages going back and forth, I was wondering:
Is there a single accepted pronunciation of "synclavier?"
I have heard it pronounced as "sing'-kla-veer" and "sin-kla'-vee-yay." Does
anyone know how representatives of the company pronounce the word?
--James Dawson
av578@lafn.org
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From: "Joerg Fitzner" <fitzner@uran.informatik.uni-bonn.de>
Subject: (Re:) Relax and Accumulations
Date: 26 Sep 1996 17:59:57 -0600
On Sep 26, 8:09am, Soeren Larsen wrote:
> [...]
> I would like to know what you think about the mix titles of Relax. I think
> they are slighty wrong in the discography. To avoid confusion I'll refer to
> the tracks by the running time.
> [...]
> What do you think?
Except for the 7" version, I think the discography is all right.
I mean nobody really knows, because obviously not even ZTT really knows!
But you have to see the history and the sequence of the different releases.
Here's my picture:
[In the following, I'm always referring to UK pressings,
except where otherwise noted.]
The first 12" obviouly was the one which had the 16:24 mix (playing at 33rpm)
on it {A 1U}. It was labeled "Sex Mix" (and "45rpm" to add to the confusion).
Since there was nothing contradicting at that time, I would regard this issue
as defining the "Sex Mix".
When the 16:24 version has been reissued later (who knows when) - actually
playing at 45rpm this time {A5} - they printed "Original Mix" on it, because
they already had recognized what mess they've made with {A 2U} and {A 4U}.
So the real "Sex Mix" IMO actually is the "Original Mix". Further, "Sex Mix"
is the original generic title for it!
After the initial 12" {A 1U} they changed the mixes without changing the label!
(Except for the special {A5} described above.) This explains why the 8:20 mix
as well as the 7:20 mix have been considered to be the Sex Mix all the time.
More worse, it's hard to find other valid names for them.
But there are two hints: When the 7:20 version (in the UK) first had been
pressed on a record which had a different catalogue number to 12 ZTAS 1, they
obviously had to make new labels... it was on the B-side of the Two Tribes
promo-12" (XZTAS 3DJ) - and guess what title they choose: "U.S. Mix"! And this
again didn't contradict anything. Moreover: It made complete sense, because
the 7:20 version really was the one which had been used in the USA from the
very beginning on.
It's only the title "New York Remix" which I have problems with. On first
sight, I'd say it had to be the U.S. Mix obviously (or where does NY lie?).
Also I once read somewhere that Trevor Horn made this mix after a visit to NY,
where he was inspired by the sound of the clubs of that time. This could very
much mean that kind of Hi-NRG-Disco style which the 7:20 mix intro sounds like.
But contradictionary, a friend of mine told me that the New York Remix had to
be the 8:20 edit of the Sex Mix. He said he was sure about it, because there
has been a poster saying something like 'Relax - New York Remix' used in
British shops around the time the 8:20 mix was available. But I think it is
hard to verify the association of that poster.
Most of my theory is backed up by an 'official' ZTT Tumbometer, which you can
enjoy at <http://titan.informatik.uni-bonn.de/~fitzner/zttumbtt.html>.
But then, the same Tumbometer says:
"ZTT's business is The Puzzle, not the explanation. This may be more
to do with laziness than obstinacy: who knows?
It must also be stressed that ZTT themselves do not own a complete set
of The Famous 'Relax' records."
> I have another question. Could anyone please tell me what the 'checkerboard
> sleeve' is like and what the 'two bodies' or 'bodies' is like?
You can see the 'two bodies' ps here:
<http://www.cs.rulimburg.nl/~antal/fgth/relax-7.gif>.
> I was offline during the summer, [...]
> [...] But the point is: Is is possible that the
> digest files can be recovered. Lazlo is it something you can do. If not it
> might be a good idea if we collect all the mail from one another.
I've tried to keep all the mails I got. So I might be able to sort out the
ones I got from the list, if necessary. (Which period is missing?)
Greetings
Joerg
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From: "Lazlo Nibble" <lazlo@swcp.com>
Subject: Congratulations and Relax
Date: 26 Sep 1996 10:37:58 -0600 (MDT)
> There's the 7:20 version which is like a "12" mix" of the 7"/album version.
> I think that version is the 'sex mix'. Why? Because why should a UK 12"
> version be called 'u.s. mix'? And 'most mislabled sex mix' sounds more like
> 'sex mix' being the right title and the other titles for this version being
> wrong.
>
> The 16:24 version is called 'sex mix' in the discography. This version is very
> different from the album version and I think it's the 'original mix'. It says
> so on my 12" anyway. The 8:20 version is supposed to be an edit of the 16:24
> version and it's called 'new york mix' in the discog. No comment.
>
> What do you think?
I think I care more about this issue than ZTT ever did. :-) The 16:24
mix, the 8:20 edit, the 7:20 mixi, and the Greek 6:15 disco mix were *all*
released labeled as the "sex mix". But since the 16:24 mix had that name
first, I consider that mix the "real" sex mix for the purposes of the
discography. (There was no reason to refer to the 16:24 mix as the
"original mix" until there were other, later mixes out there, so
obviously its real name isn't the "original mix".) The "new york mix" is,
as far as I know, labeled that way fairly consistently, even on the UK 12"
where it first appeared. As for the incongruity of a UK 12" with a "u.s.
mix" on it, well, if the 12" before it can be the "new york" mix...for that
matter, I have a UK Level 42 12" with a "u.s. mix" on it that was never even
issued in the US...
> This makes me wonder, do anyone of you concider making a ZTT WWW-site.
> What about you Lazlo, you once advertised for texts/images/ect. Any plans?
Sometime before the end of the year (fingers crossed -- either for luck or
to cover up the lie :-) I hope to start linking sleeve art into the output
of the Discography Machine, but that's the extent of my plans at the
moment. I'm collecting sleeve art, so if anyone has any please let me
know. (But please don't just email me copies without contacting me
first.)
> I found out how great the digest files are and it's sad to see that some
> of them are incomplete (especially April and June). I know there were
> some problems in the spring, some of us didn't recieve all the mail etc.
> But the point is: Is is possible that the digest files can be recovered.
> Lazlo is it something you can do. If not it might be a good idea if we
> collect all the mail from one another.
I'm afraid that I have no chance of recovering the material from the
SmartList era of this list (earlier this year). If anyone can offer
collections of messages that aren't in the archives already I'd be happy
to put them there -- but they'd have to be collections, as I don't have
time to sort them out myself right now.
--
::: Lazlo (lazlo@swcp.com; http://www.swcp.com/lazlo)
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From: vanluyke@innet.be (Van Luyken & Eeckman Communication Consultants/Entente Belgium)
Subject: Re: A Silly Question
Date: 26 Sep 1996 20:26:26 +0200 (MET DST)
>With all of the synclavier messages going back and forth, I was wondering:
>Is there a single accepted pronunciation of "synclavier?"
>
>I have heard it pronounced as "sing'-kla-veer" and "sin-kla'-vee-yay." Does
>anyone know how representatives of the company pronounce the word?
I don't know if it can help : "clavier" is the French word for "keyboard".
It is pronounced "kla'-vee-yay."
Emmanuel
vanluyke@innet.be
Van Luyken & Eeckman Communication Consultants
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From: "Henrik Lundstroem" <94K068@chestud.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: A Silly Question
Date: 30 Sep 1996 13:28:39 GMT +0100
> Date: Thu, 26 Sep 1996 20:26:26 +0200 (MET DST)
> To: ztt@xmission.com
> From: vanluyke@innet.be (Van Luyken & Eeckman Communication Consultants/Entente Belgium)
> Subject: Re: A Silly Question
> Reply-to: ztt@xmission.com
> >With all of the synclavier messages going back and forth, I was wondering:
> >Is there a single accepted pronunciation of "synclavier?"
> >
> >I have heard it pronounced as "sing'-kla-veer" and "sin-kla'-vee-yay." Does
> >anyone know how representatives of the company pronounce the word?
According to NED, the correct pronounciation is "sin-kla-'veer"...
Henrik.
Henrik Lundstroem
Chemistry student at Chalmers University of Technology,
Gothenburg, Sweden
Stalivari shout "HEUREKA!!" as the signal for invention par excellence
"Mrs Peel, we're needed!"
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From: "Henrik Lundstroem" <94K068@chestud.chalmers.se>
Subject: Re: Saturnine, Martial and Lunatic (Re: TFF)
Date: 30 Sep 1996 13:36:52 GMT +0100
> > Speaking of the mighty Synclav, I have an old NED ad where TCH is
> > interviewed (he explains why he has a NED system).
>
> Could you scan/OCR or type-in that interview? That would be really great!
I'll type it in next week (please - remind me if I don't).
>
> > > [...]
> > Listen to the CMI II (not the IIx) - it sounds even "worse" - i
> > would say "even better". The CMI II sounds more dull and
> > is used extensively on the fourth Peter Gabriel album.
>
> Isn't that the one (a/k/a Security), which has "Shock The Monkey" on it?
> I think I remeber "Shock The Monkey" has been recorded at Sarm West.
I'm not sure, but I think it's "only" mixed at sarm (wow - I would
almost kill for mixing a track at Sarm...).
BTW, speaking of TCH equipment reminds me of the incredible Publison
Infernal Machine - a French (I think) Intelligent Harmonizer that was
used by TCH to correct Holly's vocals. I've been told that the
Publison was used as evidence (correct English?) in the Holly-vs-ZTT
trial, but I don't know if that's true. You can hear the
pitchshiftdistortion of the Publison on Holly's vocals on Power of
Love...
H.
Henrik Lundstroem
Chemistry student at Chalmers University of Technology,
Gothenburg, Sweden
Stalivari shout "HEUREKA!!" as the signal for invention par excellence
"Mrs Peel, we're needed!"
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From: DAVID FELSTEAD <lr71@dial.pipex.com>
Subject: PROPAGANDA FOR SALE
Date: 18 Sep 1996 12:33:47 GMT
Hi everyone.....
this is part one of the list of mainly
Propaganda/Brucken stuff that i
am willing to sell..
PROPAGANDA...HEAVEN GIVE ME (CD SINGLE IN BOX) =A37
" " " (12")
=A34
" " " " WHITE
LABEL =A35
" " ... ONLY ONE WORD 10" WITH PRINTS
=A35
.....HEAVEN GIVE ME (VHS PROMO VIDEO)
=A36
ZTT .. VALUE OF ENTERTAINMENT VIDEO (VHS)
=A320
ACT.. SNOBBERY (PROMO VIDEO) ON ISLAND COMP. =A315
ANDREW POPPY .. 32 FRAMES (PROMO VID) "" "
=A315
C.BRUCKEN.. ABSOLUTE CD SINGLE
=A310
" "" ( 7" SINGLE)
=A33
" " " " IN BOX + 3 PRINTS
=A37
" " (12")
=A35
C.BRUCKEN .. KISS LIKE ETHER ( 12" IN BOX)
=A37
A.PIGALLE.. HE STRANGER ( 7" JAPANESE)
=A38
ACT.... CANT ESCAPE (12")
=A35
" " (7")
=A33
C.BRUCKEN... LOVE AND A MILLION LP (VINYL)
=A310
T.LEER NO.1 (12")
=A36
" SCALE OF 10 (12")
=A36
" ALL ABOUT YOU (12")
=A37
PROPAGANDA ..BEJEWELLED PROMO 12"
=A315
GLENN + CLAUDIA .. WHEN YOUR ( SHAPED P.DISC) =A38
" " " (12")
=A38
THERE IS A LOT MORE TO FOLLOW.... POPPY,AON,FRANKIE ETC
i have a 3 hour video i`ve put together of all prop/act/brucken
promo vids
interviews tv appearances includes claudia singing "because the night
" on j.ross tv
show and act interview with steve lipscom on tomorrows world? but am
still digging it
out.. signed photos.. some live tapes etc...
i am after any brucken stuff or news.....
IF INTERESTED PLEASE E-MAIL ME ON: lr71@dial.pipex.com
"Champagne dreams and caviar wishes"... Dave
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Dave Felstead.
13 Tudor Close,
Long Eaton,
Nottingham.
England.
NG10 1NF
e-mail: dave.felstead@dial.pipex.com
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