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From: "Artur Nowak" <arno@silesia.top.pl> Subject: RE: Re: PIGPEN Date: 01 Nov 1998 13:15:03 +0100 > >Victim (on the Avant label) is great too > > this record is fantastic. buy it at any cost. Hmm... Generally, I'm very dissapointed by Horvitz records, especially Pigpen and Zony Mash. I have impression, that Horvitz wants to make "Naked City 2", and the thing missing in his records is the power of Naked City. The comparsion is obvious (to me...) when listening to "Sex Fiend" from "Cold Spell" - Horvitz version is just weak, anemic... when Naked City kicks ass! :-( __________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak [arno@silesia.top.DEATHTOSPAMMERS.pl] www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/default.htm - Discography of Bill Frisell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Re: PIGPEN Date: 01 Nov 1998 23:49:41 +1100 > Hmm... Generally, I'm very dissapointed by Horvitz records, especially > Pigpen and Zony Mash. I have impression, that Horvitz wants to make > "Naked City 2", and the thing missing in his records is the power of > Naked City. The comparsion is obvious (to me...) when listening to > "Sex Fiend" from "Cold Spell" - Horvitz version is just weak, > anemic... when Naked City kicks ass! I don't own any Zony Mash albums, but from the odd song I've managed to hear from them, I know exactly what you mean. But you can't say the same about Pigpen, I don't think Horvitz is trying to do the same thing there. As I just posted about a day ago, Daylight is great, and really doesn't have much linkage to Naked City, in fact you wouldn't necessarily know it was the same guy in the two bands from listening to that cd. Miss Ann is a bit closer to Naked City, but is still great in its own right. And according to others, V As In Victim is also wonderful. Incidentally, Miss Ann has a cover of Triggerfingers which in my opinion doesn't quite equal the original, but it is still a very good version. If you can, try to get a hold of Zony Mash performing Torture Garden (I don't know whether it's still on their website). It has the wonderful Eyvind Kang on violin and Mike Stone on drums, and it is extremely funny to listen to. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kevin Neales <kevinn@javanet.com> Subject: Improvised Music New York 1981 Date: 01 Nov 1998 15:36:46 -0500 I just bought a used copy of Improvised Music New York 1981 on Muworks. The song titles are not printed in the booklet, but are hand written in. Just curious, but was this the way it was sold originally? Kevin Neales - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: Re: Improvised Music New York 1981 Date: 01 Nov 1998 16:33:11 EST In a message dated 98-11-01 15:48:20 EST, Kevin Neales writes: <> One of my customers in Japan found this for me new, the same Muworks version you have. Mine has no titles on it whatsoever, so apparently someone along the way attempted to figure out what "songs" these were and wrote them into your booklet. I'd be interested in seeing that list actually, and I hope this info helps! Dale. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sulacco@aol.com Subject: Re: Improvised Music New York 1981 Date: 01 Nov 1998 17:16:45 EST In a message dated 11/1/98 15:48:20, you wrote: >The song titles are not printed in the booklet, but are hand written in. >Just curious, but was this the way it was sold originally? my booklet doesn't have song titles. it also does not have any handwriting in it. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christian Heslop" <xian@mbay.net> Subject: guitar music Date: 01 Nov 1998 18:36:22 -0800 I'm looking for some modern classical guitar music(wrap your mind around that nomenclatural sin)-specifically for a recording of some Leo Brouwer etudes that I've been studying.I'm also interested in guitarists working in other idioms etc.Any recommendations? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: OnionPalac@aol.com Subject: Re: guitar music Date: 01 Nov 1998 23:56:07 EST For classical guitar and beyond (nylon string music -with a hint of steel and electric) I usually recommend Andrew York's Perfect Sky. This album is generally made up of original tunes, though he has some P. Tchaikovsky, F. Couperin, and others included. His songwriting is wonderful in that one can learn a lot after learning some of his stuff. He might fit under the oxymoronish styles of a modern traditionalist. Another name that pops in my head when I think of classical guitar is Toumani Diabate. Even though he does not play guitar his style on his instrument is very nylon classical sounding at times. He plays an instrument his father popularized in Mali called a kora. Solo and with accompaniment he flips through many styles that spread throughout the world. Check out his album Djelika. Hope something here is helpful. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Ackley/Dresser/Justin Time/Piazzola etc Date: 02 Nov 1998 08:23:04 -0800 On Sat, 31 Oct 1998 00:47:35 -0500 (EST) William York wrote: > > > > anyone got details of the forthcoming Mark Dresser kfw cd? > > > It's going to be Dresser, Anthony Coleman, and Chris Speed, based on what > they said in the newsletter that came with their last batch. Could it be that one? *** - UN CHIEN ANDALOU: Mark Dresser Mark Dresser; Anthony Coleman; Mike Sarin. 1997 - Knitting Factory Works (USA), ??? (CD) Note: not released yet (planned for November 1997). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Improvised Music New York 1981 Date: 02 Nov 1998 08:42:14 -0800 On Sun, 01 Nov 1998 15:36:46 -0500 Kevin Neales wrote: > > I just bought a used copy of Improvised Music New York 1981 on Muworks. > The song titles are not printed in the booklet, but are hand written in. > Just curious, but was this the way it was sold originally? This record is famous for the tersity of its liner notes... Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cbarrett@neaq.org (Chris Barrett) Subject: Re: PIGPEN Date: 02 Nov 1998 11:51:35 -0500 At 5:43 PM 10/30/98, Theo Klaase wrote: >I have Pigpen's "Half Rack" album and I think it's just great....Does >anyone know how good the other albums are? Which one is best, etc....? > > Any info appreciated. (Email me pivately) Thanks! > > >}Theodorus-- > > V as in Victim is my favorite. The title cut is redone on Daylight but looses a lot of the intensity (and is I think only half as long). Live in Poland has got some good stuff on it too. It's interesting to hear how they deal with those tunes that use multiple sax tracks. Miss Ann has some interesting stuff going on, and is probably the most cohesive after Daylight, not that anyone here is looking for cohesive records. ;>) I like all the Pigpen stuff, but I don't "love" it. There is something about all the releases I've heard that just seems like the playing is a little flat. I don't think they are bad, but the playing on the Naked City records (since someone brought it up) does seem much more inspired to me, even though they are not trying to do the same thing.... Actually, I think I like the concept of what Pigpen was trying to do (or what it sounds like to me they were trying to do) more than Naked City, but ultimately Naked City succeeds more often. -Chris - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: PIGPEN Date: 02 Nov 1998 08:50:58 -0800 On Sun, 1 Nov 1998 13:15:03 +0100 "Artur Nowak" wrote: > > Hmm... Generally, I'm very dissapointed by Horvitz records, especially > Pigpen and Zony Mash. I have impression, that Horvitz wants to make > "Naked City 2", and the thing missing in his records is the power of > Naked City. The comparsion is obvious (to me...) when listening to But if you assume that 1+1=3 and, after some experiments, you find out that the result is 2, would you be disappointed? In short: you can't make the artist responsible for your assumptions :-). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re: Improvised Music New York 1981 Date: 02 Nov 1998 11:49:43 -0500 > On Sun, 01 Nov 1998 15:36:46 -0500 Kevin Neales wrote: > > > > I just bought a used copy of Improvised Music New York 1981 on Muworks. > > The song titles are not printed in the booklet, but are hand written in. > > Just curious, but was this the way it was sold originally? It had few notes and no titles, but then again, this album was culled from a somewhat unfocused improvised concert, and the tape was sliced and diced by Robert Musso into bite sized chunks, so titles may be a bit superfluous anyway. Rich - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Re: Ackley/Dresser/Justin Time/Piazzola etc Date: 02 Nov 1998 12:21:48 -0500 (EST) > Could it be that one? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *** - UN CHIEN ANDALOU: Mark Dresser > > Mark Dresser; Anthony Coleman; Mike Sarin. > > 1997 - Knitting Factory Works (USA), ??? (CD) > > Note: not released yet (planned for November 1997). I guess it has to be, but I swear they said Chris Speed instead of Mike Sarin. Is it possible that the Knit. Fac. made a mistake? Is the world coming to an end? Help! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joshua A Miller <umillj08@umail.ucsb.edu> Subject: quick non-zorn related question Date: 02 Nov 1998 09:25:37 -0800 (PST) sorry to bother you all, but does anyone happen to know what exactly the format is for John Cale's current tour? (solo, w/ crappy studio musicians, etc) thanks a lot. -- Joshua A Miller umillj08@umail.ucsb.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Ackley/Dresser/Justin Time/Piazzola etc Date: 02 Nov 1998 09:30:06 -0800 On Mon, 2 Nov 1998 12:21:48 -0500 (EST) William York wrote: > > > 1997 - Knitting Factory Works (USA), ??? (CD) > > > > Note: not released yet (planned for November 1997). > > I guess it has to be, but I swear they said Chris Speed instead of Mike > Sarin. Is it possible that the Knit. Fac. made a mistake? Is the world Mike Sarin being a drummer this would be a more likely lineup. Could it be a drummerless record? Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com> Subject: Re: Keiji Haino Date: 02 Nov 1998 12:31:11 -0500 > On Sat, 31 Oct 1998 17:46:00 EST, JonAbbey2@aol.com sed: > > Friday night's two sets with Mark Dresser and Joey Baron were certainly > fascinating, but on a purely musical level, I didn't find them exceptional. > Before the concert, I couldn't quite conceive of how this trio would mesh > their differing styles. What ended up being the case was that Haino pushed his > sound toward that of Dresser and Baron, at times reminding me a bit of Wes > Montgomery Absolutely agree. Keiji was definitely restrained. Baron on the other hand was very exciting to see and hear. Kinda wish I would have caught one of the other nights. Jason Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vlad-Drac@webtv.net (Theo Klaase) Subject: Zony Mash on Naked City Date: 02 Nov 1998 12:15:25 -0600 (CST) I like the cover of Naked City's "Sex Fiend" by Zony Mash. It's approached in a completely new light...A different interpretation. Same goes for Pigpen's version of "Revolution Revelation". Don't make the mistake of judging these bands by Naked City's standards...just listen to it as good fucking music! }Theodorus-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: New Bob Ostertag on Seeland... Date: 02 Nov 1998 10:23:26 -0800 Just saw a new Bob Ostertag on Seeland and I was wondering if it was a reissue of: *** - LIKE A MELODY, NO BITTERNESS: Bob Ostertag 1997 - My Very Own Record Label (USA), MVORL - 1 (CD) I am asking this question because the titles are the same (except for a men- tion, between parenthesis, that the new one is solo). Thanks, Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Louis Schwartz <lschwart@richmond.edu> Subject: Re: Brouwer "Estudios" Date: 02 Nov 1998 13:53:37 -0500 Christian, There are several Leo Brouwer collections available. One a good and very inexpensive one that includes (I think all of) Brouwer's "Estudios" (they're a lot of fun to play aren't they?) is Naxos', *Guitar Collection - Brouwer: Guitar Music Vol. 1* (#8553630). It'll only set you back about 5 or 6 dollars. The guitarist is Richard Cobo. It's a good performance and recording and it's easy to find. If you check the "Naxos" section of a local big record store you should be able to find it. Much, much better, but harder to find and far more expensive--but, again, let me repeat: MUCH BETTER--is a 2 CD set of guitar etudes played by David Tanenbaum. It's called *Estudios* and it has the whole (all 20) of Brower's "Estudios" plus the more commonly recorded sets by Carcassi and Sor. The playing on these disks is shockingly good (especially from a technical perspective; you may find it a bit emotionally "cool"). The recording is also excellent. It's on GSP (GSP 1000CD). You may need to order it directly from GSP, but I think Amazon.com lists it as available as a special order. This recording makes my fingers itch to play, despite the fact that I'll never play like that.... Another excellent, recent recording of Brouwer's works John Williams' recording of "The Black Decameron" on Sony Classical. It includes several works by Brouwer in addition to the title piece, both solo and with orchestra. It's also beautifully played and recorded, but does not include the "Estudios." Happy listening! Louis Schwartz ======================================= Louis Schwartz English Department University of Richmond Richmond, VA 23173 (804) 289-8315 lschwart@richmond.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Martens <ericmartens@yahoo.com> Subject: deadly weapons Date: 02 Nov 1998 10:58:32 -0800 (PST) I'm a new subscriber & I'm sure this has been covered before, but the local (Cola. SC) used CD place has had a copy of this for several months that I keep almost buying; I'm wondering: wd. my $10 be better spent elsewhere? == "When you said that I wasn't worth talking to, I had to yake your word on that." -- Liz Phair _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: deadly weapons Date: 02 Nov 1998 11:14:58 -0800 On Mon, 2 Nov 1998 10:58:32 -0800 (PST) Eric Martens wrote: > > I'm a new subscriber & I'm sure this has been covered before, but the > local (Cola. SC) used CD place has had a copy of this for several > months that I keep almost buying; I'm wondering: wd. my $10 be better > spent elsewhere? Hard to answer your question not knowing from where you come and what attracts you in Zorn's output. This is a very enjoyable record made, mainly, of songs, but all with something twisted. It shows one of Zorn's first "straight" way of playing alto. A record with a lot of charm. Not at the top of a buying list, but not far from the top of a playing list :-). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer <keffer@shell.planetc.com> Subject: Haino at Tonic Date: 02 Nov 1998 16:22:15 -0500 >From: JonAbbey2@aol.com >Subject: Keiji Haino > >Well, here's a quick recap of the first two nights of the NYC three-night >Haino festival:... > >I'm not attending tonight, but I'd love to hear about it. > I attended the last two nights performances. On the third night Haino performed in a variety of duos, trios, and quartets selecting partners from five musicians: Min Xiao-Fen (pipa), Andy Haas (didgeridoo), Kramer (5-stringed electric bass guitar), Josh Roseman (trombone), and Cyro Baptista (about a dozen different instruments, mostly percussive in nature). The ensemble changed for every song. Of these groups, all were improvisational and the success ranged from spectacular to relatively miserable. Spectacular ensembles first: Min Xiao-Fen on pipa, Haino dancing with two tambourines. This was the closer of the second set. Haino timed his dance to the playing of Min, sort of like a marionette with Min pulling the strings, except the strings were pretty tangled. The dance itself was terrifically energetic. Lots of leaping and flailing, motion and premonitions of motion, and motions begun and retracted before they were completed. I felt that the crowd was charged with excitement and awe when it was done. Andy Haas on didgeridoo and Haino on hurdy gurdy. this was just a great duet which created a soundscape where I was just delighted by the interplay of the low-frequency drone of the didgeridoo and the high frequency drone of the hurdy-gurdy. It was an unlikely pairing of instruments (has there ever in history been a didgeridoo/hurdy gurdy duet?) and it was something to hear. Haas on didgeridoo, Baptista on percussion, Haino on voice only. The highlight of this was Haino's voice. His shrieks over the backing instruments had to be heard to be believed. I don't believe any of his recordings have captured the range he displayed in Tonic on Halloween. Dense ensembles second: The quartets were mostly dense. Min/Haas/Baptista with Haino on guitar, Min/Roseman/Haas with Haino on hurdy gurdy, Roseman/Haas/Baptista with Haino on guitar. These improvisational pieces hit really screeching heights. For spots, the group would get in synch but in between the synching, there was some true blue cacophony. The quartets were fun and loud and energetic and Haino was great but I was a little disappointed with parts of the quartets because Haino's guitar and Haas's didgeridoo dominated too much. The pipa was like a bird battered around by a storm and the trombone was also struggling to find it's place, much of the time. The pipa and trombone have naturally beautiful sounds, however, I didn't hear those sounds during the quartet. I just heard vague, tentative intimations of the natural sounds so...I was disappointed by the manner in which those instruments were able to contribute to the quartets (most of the time). Miserable ensembles last: There were two points where I thought the music came up short. I know that experimentation is the soul of improvisation but...some experiments fail. The first trombone/guitar duet fell flat. It appeared to me that the trombone player was overwhelmed by the task of accompanying Haino. He was not confident enough to lead Haino and he could not follow Haino's lead. They ended that duet after a couple minutes. When the trombone player reappeared with the quartet, he was able to better key off Baptista or someone else and was thus able to get into synch with the other players and really make the trombone part of the active music. Finally, I had never seen Baptista play before (I've heard him on various Zorn-related releases) but I was really unimpressed at his live performance. He had a dozen instruments and he would switch between them each minute, sometimes playing all twelve instruments in a single piece. The change of instruments (from banging buckets, to maracas, whirlies, sheets of ridged metal, a vina, some type of small xylophone, etc.) introduced new sound to the music but I felt that the whole presence of Baptista was as a novelty gag--like, "Let's see what new gimmick can be added to the sound". He would start playing and, to his credit, he could get in synch with the rest of the ensemble almost instantly, but I still felt like I was watching a gimmick, (which would have helped the music if it had been boring, but since it was not, just detracted from it). Worse yet, he was featured pretty loudly in the mix, which didn't help anything. Lastly, there was one quartet, where Haino first began to sing on Saturday night. He had sung one extended syllable when Baptista began to make the sorts of noises one can make with one's mouth that are typical of rap. Puh-puh-puh is the best onomatopoeia I can come up with to describe it. It startled the crowd and shut Haino up immediately. I had come to hear Haino sing; I wanted that rapping idiot to get off the stage immediately. Perhaps I am too severe in my judgments. Anyway, so went the last night of Haino at Tonic. Without reseravtions, I can say I was delighted to have been able to see it. David "please take my severe opinions with a grain of salt" K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joshua A Miller <umillj08@umail.ucsb.edu> Subject: Re: quick non-zorn related question Date: 02 Nov 1998 14:11:10 -0800 (PST) > > sorry to bother you all, but does anyone happen to know what exactly > the > > format is for John Cale's current tour? (solo, w/ crappy studio > musicians, > > etc) > > thanks a lot. > I don't know, but does anyone have a dates/venues for this? (saw Cale > once 2-odd yrs ago, wd. love to again) the only date i know of is November 5th at the El Rey in Los Angeles -- Joshua A Miller umillj08@umail.ucsb.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Dikeman" <shangohammy@hotmail.com> Subject: Words On "The Big Gundown" Date: 02 Nov 1998 14:40:57 PST A while ago I let a guitar playing friend of mine borrow "The Big Gundown." Not only did it excite and scare the living shit out of him, he picked up some of what Bobby Previte was "saying" about halfway through. He knew French and said he picked out: "I do not know the Monkey!" Just before that monkey scream thing Previte does. Does anyone out there know everything he said? Also, THis friend of mine wondered if there was any place to get sheet music for "Once Upon A Time In The West." I told him to transcribe it, but promised I'd ask. Anybody know where you could get this? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> Subject: Re: Haino at Tonic Date: 02 Nov 1998 17:49:20 -0500 David Keffer wrote: [fine review snipped; thanks, Dave] > Finally, I had never seen Baptista play before (I've heard him on various > Zorn-related releases) but I was really unimpressed at his live performance. > He had a dozen instruments and he would switch between them each minute, > sometimes > playing all twelve instruments in a single piece. The change of > instruments (from > banging buckets, to maracas, whirlies, sheets of ridged metal, a vina, some > type > of small xylophone, etc.) introduced new sound to the music but I felt that > the > whole presence of Baptista was as a novelty gag--like, "Let's see what new > gimmick can be added to the sound". He would start playing and, to his > credit, he could > get in synch with the rest of the ensemble almost instantly, but I still felt > like I was watching a gimmick, (which would have helped the music if it had > been > boring, but since it was not, just detracted from it). You hit on a long-standing pet peeve of mine and describe it very well. I can't begin to count the number of times I've experienced exactly this approach. Something of the sort occurred at the Zorn chamber ensemble concert I saw a couple of weeks ago, though the culprits were Winant and Pugliese. A couple of the pieces ('Music for Children' was one) seemed (I'm guessing) to allow for a bit of latitude on the part of the percussionists and, though they did so with enthusiasm and some imagination, it had a tang of, "Hmmm, let's hit this bowl, now this gong, how about scratching this guiro, maybe whirling this noisemaker, etc.) Now it might be that this was all somehow cued by JZ, but the effect was the same. The best antidote I know for this 'percussion sampling' approach is the work of Jerome Cooper, particularly incredible records like 'Root Assumptions' (on About Time). Cooper used to (and may well still--haven't caught him live for a while) do 15 or 20 minute pieces for very a circumscribed arsenal, say bass drum, sock cymbal and balaphon. By concentrating on just these (or fewer) aspects of his set, he'd wring out an astonishing amount of musicality. Zorn's shown himself capable of working within severe limitations in pieces like 'Dark River'; wish he'd do more of that. This said, Baptista is usually, when I've seen him, not guilty of this particular crime. With the Bar Kokhba ensemble last month he was his typically open-eared, amazing self. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: percussion (was: Re: Haino at Tonic) Date: 01 Nov 1998 17:53:26 -0500 Brian Olewnick wrote: > > You hit on a long-standing pet peeve of mine and describe it very well. > I can't begin to count the number of times I've experienced exactly this > approach. Something of the sort occurred at the Zorn chamber ensemble > concert I saw a couple of weeks ago, though the culprits were Winant and > Pugliese. A couple of the pieces ('Music for Children' was one) seemed > (I'm guessing) to allow for a bit of latitude on the part of the > percussionists and, though they did so with enthusiasm and some > imagination, it had a tang of, "Hmmm, let's hit this bowl, now this > gong, how about scratching this guiro, maybe whirling this noisemaker, > etc.) Now it might be that this was all somehow cued by JZ, but the > effect was the same. The best antidote I know for this 'percussion > sampling' approach is the work of Jerome Cooper, particularly incredible > records like 'Root Assumptions' (on About Time). Cooper used to (and may > well still--haven't caught him live for a while) do 15 or 20 minute > pieces for very a circumscribed arsenal, say bass drum, sock cymbal and > balaphon. By concentrating on just these (or fewer) aspects of his set, > he'd wring out an astonishing amount of musicality. Another good example of great percussion music made with a limited arsenal is Le Quan Ninh's solo 'Ustensiles' disc on For 4 Ears. It's amazing how can make music made with like 3 bowed cymbals and a block sound so much freer than someone with the many sound options of a full drumset. Wonderful player... -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: snilsen@panda.uchc.edu (Steven Nilsen) Subject: PIGPEN/Zony/Naked City Date: 02 Nov 1998 17:06:33 -0700 I doubt Wayne Horvitz is trying to sound anythiong like Naked City with Zony Mash, but he may had been in some ways trying to rekindle the energy of Naked City in Pigpen. At first listen I didn't know what to make of Cold Spell. It's a very stark recording with a sort of hollow sound. In no way does Cold Spell match the intesity of live Zony Mash, but Brand Spanking New sure does. The latter is excellently recorded with much deeper texture. The songs on Cold Spell do leave a lasting memory when performed live, and the Brand Spanking New songs seem to deepen the Zony Mash sound. For example Slide By is certainly one of the grooviest songs Wayne has ever written, it's down right infectous. It should be obvious that Wayne isn't trying to sound anymore like Naked City than he is like the Meters with tis group. I like to think of Zony Mash as avant-funk. I find Pigpen, on the whole, much more exciting to listen to. I don't know anybody who can't feel the driving energy of Band of Joeys off Halfrack. Pigpen's sound is much groovier than anything Naked City played, to most audiences. However, you can hear similarities between Briggan Krauss and JZ, which was probably what captured Wayne's ear when putting togther the band (pure speculation). This is probably why it's tempting to compare Pigpen with Naked City. I'll argue that Wayne was not at all trying to sound like Naked City, but is actually using Pigpen to breath new life into the tunes of The President, his former band. Check out those releases and I think you'll hear it. Many of the Pigpen songs sound like rearrangements of President tunes. Horvitz's use of Zorn tunes is surely just a tip of the hat to a long time friend. Well I hope I don't step on too many toes with my assumptive nature, but this is just my take on the music. -Steven - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: recent goodies Date: 02 Nov 1998 21:11:24 -0500 It's been a while since I reported on recent purchases, but unfortunately my employment opportunities came up empty for a while, forcing me to cut back, even on basic necessities like new CDs. All better now, so some of these are from a recent culling. My recent posts have mostly been about electroacoustic (EA) music, rather than the improv elements of JZ's music, but there is a junction of these two musics, and I have found some very interesting works which fall into this category. On ReR, there's a new release by Tim Hodgkinson (of Henry Cow) on guitar, alto and clarinet, with the Italian EA group Ossatura. This should be of interest to everyone who likes textured, noisy, can't-tell-who's-playing-what improv, similar to Polwechsel, Evan Parker's EA Ensemble, Archery, etc. There are some inspired moments with Hodgkinson on sax, but mostly it's well textured noise, a delight. Also on ReR is the Latvian group ZGA, whose release End of an Epoch features a trio including two players of EA objects along with a guitarist. Sometimes, unfortunately, you can tell they used to play rock, as they have loud guitar chords with plodding drums and heavily treated vocals. But their better moments are subtle and very inventive, deserving a wider audience. Coming to this arena more from the classical side is Charivari Music by Morphogenesis (Paradigm), an EA improv group from England featuring notables Clive Bell, Michael Prime, and Roger Sutherland (whose book _New Perspectives in Music_ turned me on to this group). My reference point here is definitely Stockhausen's intuitive music, partially because someone's playing piano in a very Kontarsky-like fashion. The textures are sometimes more sparse than Ossatura, but I'm enjoying this album and would definitely be interested in hearing more from this group. On the straight EA side, the tenth volume in the long-running series of prize winners from the Bourges Cultures Electroniques has the usual bunch of something for everyone's taste. For those who are unfamiliar with the series, it contains prize winners in several categories of EA: Program Music, music with instruments, studio music, and one of 'musique de caractere' (won coincidentally by one of the members of Ossatura). There are ten pieces, almost 150 minutes of music, and most of the names were unknown to me, except for Roger Doyle (whose Babel series on World Serpent I've enjoyed) and Andrew Lewis (whose been featured in this series before). As usual, there are a couple of vocal pieces which do little for me (one of them is a tribute to John Cage, composed of audible and recognizable elements from Herbert Henke's vinyl recording of Music of Changes and Cage reading from the Indeterminacy lectures, it's growing on me). The Magistere is a work for piano and tape which is fascinating, and the grand prize is for tape alone, monumental in scope. Tetsu Inoue's new piece, Waterloo Terminal. Before you think, 'wait, did someone just switch me over to the ambient list?', the reference point here is much more Oval than any dub, ambient, or space music. Crunchy noises, made in part by scanning pictures and plans from the Terminal into a sound generator program, dominate this new entry in Caipirinha's latest entry in the architecture series. I've only heard this once so far, but (despite my name dropping of Oval) it doesn't really sound like anything else, and I think has promise. I haven't heard his Tzadik album, so I can't compare them directly, but I did read a recent interview that indicates that Inoue is getting into this new direction in his music, and took more care with this one because he wasn't trying to break out of his rut any more. I've also been seeking out drone music, and a Staalplaat release The Stomach of the Sky by MNORTHAM/JGRZNICH (sic) delivers. Supposedly including natural sounds (although who can tell), with interludes of silence, this appeals to the same part of me that likes Trente Oiseaux. The drones have enough of an edge to keep this away from any new-ageyness. Finally, I have to recommend the Massacre album Funny Valentine on Tzadik, but will caution anyone expecting more of the same (as if nothing has happened to Frith, Laswell or Hayward in the last 20 years). The suppleness of the rhythm and the inventiveness of the guitar reminded me more of the first Arcana album, although there is definitely more noise here, and I'm not suggesting at all that Frith has started sounding like Bailey. Gone are the rock stylings, the foot tappings, even the kick-ass stuff like Legs (one of my favorite rock pieces of all time), but that doesn't keep this from a fairly regular entry in the CDPlayer, already. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers -- Pablo Picasso - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Orangejazz@aol.com Subject: John Kennedy + Lee harvey Oswald = John Oswald. Date: 02 Nov 1998 23:14:56 EST I have a question about John Oswald, for those of you who have heard the plexure cd. How long is it? i know it's not the lenght that matters, and a love supreme is only 33 minutes, but my wallet is speaking to me here :) can anyone help me out? from matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sulacco@aol.com Subject: re:deadly weapons Date: 03 Nov 1998 01:36:47 EST > I'm a new subscriber & I'm sure this has been covered before, but the > local (Cola. SC) used CD place has had a copy of this for several > months that I keep almost buying; I'm wondering: wd. my $10 be better > spent elsewhere? i rather enjoy it. its kinda spy jazz sounding. $10? can't go wrong... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sulacco@aol.com Subject: Re: John Kennedy + Lee harvey Oswald = John Oswald. Date: 03 Nov 1998 01:39:17 EST In a message dated 11/2/98 23:18:03, you wrote: >I have a question about John Oswald, for those of you who have heard the >plexure cd. How long is it? i know it's not the lenght that matters, and a >love supreme is only 33 minutes, but my wallet is speaking to me here :) can >anyone help me out? its 19:40 if memory serves. sure its probably over a dollar a minute, but what the hell? it rules! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: recent goodies Date: 03 Nov 1998 01:44:35 -0500 Caleb T. Deupree wrote: [large snippage of some fascinating reportage] > Tetsu Inoue's new piece, Waterloo Terminal. [snip] Crunchy noises, > made in part by scanning pictures and plans from the Terminal into a sound > generator program, dominate this new entry in Caipirinha's latest entry in > the architecture series. Great f****n' liner notes, too, don't you think? ;-) Thanks for the fine music reviews. I, too, have been in somewhat of a draught lately when it comes to new purchases - last new things I remember buying were "The Bribe," "Aporias" and the first album by Jega. (Nifty, nifty and nifty, in case you were wondering...) But I just happened to amble into the Union Square Virgin Megastore this evening, and a 20%-off sale on all things Polygram was all the excuse I needed to finally break down and buy the new complete Varese set by the Royal Concertgebouw Orchestra (one of the finest orchestras on the planet, bar none), the ASKO Ensemble (ditto the above, only add the word "chamber" before the word "orchestra") and a variety of soloists, all led by capable and broadminded conductor Riccardo Chailly [pronounced "shy-YEE" -- former classical radio DJ Steve], on London Classics. I've only just started listening to the set as I type, but the recording quality is exceptional and really seems to capture the breadth of Varese's incredible and singular sound world. The performance sounds to me to be exceptional as well... the Concertgebouw Orchestra has always seemed to me to be one of the fewish orchestras in the world that takes playing avant garde music as seriously as playing the "classics." For instance, in Ameriques the offstage brass is captured with clarity and a proper distance, the sirens, whistles, wind machine sounds and rubber ducky noises are all appropriately bizarre and well-registered, and the score is recorded in its (reconstructed) original form for the first time ever. The notes, by Varese friend - disciple - expert - fellow composer Chou Wen-Chung, are exceptional in really giving a concise but illuminating portrait of the composer and his true role in music history, bigger than one might have thought, as well as the ideas and stories behind each of the pieces. The set includes Ameriques (original version), Poeme Electronique, Arcana (the logical next step after Stravinsky's Rite of Spring, which Arcana often resembles), Nocturnal, Un Grand Sommeil Noir (original version for soprano and piano, and a new orchestral version by Anthony Beaumont that strikes me somehow as echht-Gorecki-cum-Basil Poledouris-circa-"Conan the Barbarian"), Offrandes, Hyperprism, Octandre, Integrales, Ecuatorial, Ionisation (one of the most important of all 20th century "classical" compositions, the first all-percussion piece that mattered), Density 21.5 (devastating and lovely solo flute piece - inspired Eric Dolphy, among others), and Deserts, plus two "new" Varese pieces reconstructed from sketches by Chou... Tuning Up (something of a hyperkinetic new music parody meant to be a concert opener... put me in mind of Zorn mixed with Leonard Bernstein in orchestral populist mode) and Dance for Burgess (haven't heard yet). Simply put, Varese was one of the most important composers this century has to offer. Anyone interested in modern orchestral music, respectfully and lovingly played, and also anyone with the slightest interest in Frank Zappa's classical ouerve (all lovingly but explicitly derived from Varese's music), needs to get this set. I don't claim to be an expert, but to my ears these are the best Varese recordings I've ever heard, and certainly among the best performances. (...although the massed male chorus on Nocturnal, chanting "You belong to the night" repeatedly in differing rhythms, somehow struck me as belonging more to "The Rocky Horror Picture Show" than to breakthrough classical music. Is it only because they're Dutch speaking English? And the soprano replies, "Perfume and sperm / I have lost my brother..." whereupon the basses begin to sound like deranged and increasingly insistent and rapacious Oompa-Loompas, chanting something that is not "To-ga! To-ga! To-ga!" yet the scansion is much the same. How can you possibly resist this? Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Varese, "Arcana" P.S. Typing the phrase "Zorn mixed with Leonard Bernstein" made me think that a mix of these two would make for a damn fine "Great Jewish Music" series entry. But would the fact that Bernstein was explicitly Jewish (as contrasted with Bacharach, Gainsbourg and Bolan, who have not/did not make their Jewish heritage an overt part of their character and artistry) render him exempt from the series? I'd hope not... there were more than enough inherent contradictions in Bernstein's life to render him a fascinating potential subject for the series. P.P.S. Personally, though, I'm still hoping for "Great Jewish Music: Stanley Eisen and Chaim Witz" (I'm absolutely serious... engage me in debate on the subject if you dare...). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christian Heslop" <xian@mbay.net> Subject: Re: recent goodies Date: 02 Nov 1998 23:10:18 -0800 It doesn't include "Le Croix De Sud"? A fantastic song. ---------- > From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> > the new complete Varese set by the Royal >Concertgebouw Orchestra (one of the finest orchestras on the planet, bar none), > the ASKO Ensemble (ditto the above, only add the word "chamber" before the word > "orchestra") and a variety of soloists, all led by capable and broadminded > > The set includes Ameriques (original version), Poeme Electronique, Arcana (the > logical next step after Stravinsky's Rite of Spring, which Arcana often > resembles), Nocturnal, Un Grand Sommeil Noir (original version for soprano and > piano, and a new orchestral version by Anthony Beaumont that strikes me somehow > as echht-Gorecki-cum-Basil Poledouris-circa-"Conan the Barbarian"), Offrandes, > Hyperprism, Octandre, Integrales, Ecuatorial, Ionisation (one of the most > important of all 20th century "classical" compositions, the first > all-percussion piece that mattered), Density 21.5 (devastating and lovely solo > flute piece - inspired Eric Dolphy, among others), and Deserts, plus two "new" > Varese pieces reconstructed from sketches by Chou... Tuning Up (something of a > hyperkinetic new music parody meant to be a concert opener... put me in mind of > Zorn mixed with Leonard Bernstein in orchestral populist mode) and Dance for > Burgess (haven't heard yet). > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bobonic@westol.com (Adam MacGregor) Subject: John Oswald/David Prentice across the states Date: 03 Nov 1998 04:49:29 -0500 Hey all, If you get a chance to catch Oswald/Prentice, I'd strongly encourage you to go go go! Oswald's alto sax playing sounds to me like a combination between a train wreck and the exhaust of hell. He unleashes these flurries of overblown notes (very rhytmically, with lots of spaces in between phrases) and even repeats these impossible phrases several times in a row--he definitely knows what hes doing... Prentice did some nice skronking on the violin as well--very tritoney a lot of the time and some cool nails on the balckboard screeches here and there. They were selling a couple of limited edition CD's there (and signing them as well) but they were a limited run of 10 copies and $20 apiece too (i picked up the new Merzbow from the distro at the venue instead--eek) so it was kinda out of the question. However, does anybody know of any recordings in existence of Oswald on alto? I'd like to relive those glorious several minutes of terror... thanks, adam - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: deadly weapons Date: 03 Nov 1998 04:58:32 EST In a message dated 11/2/98 2:01:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, ericmartens@yahoo.com writes: > I'm a new subscriber & I'm sure this has been covered before, but the > local (Cola. SC) used CD place has had a copy of this for several > months that I keep almost buying; I'm wondering: wd. my $10 be better > spent elsewhere? Papa Jazz is the "place", am I to assume? Anyway, _Deadly Weapons_ was one of my first Zorn LPs. David Toop, Steve Beresford, and Tonie Marshall share equally on this outing, so calling it a "Zorn" work is probably a bit misleading. It's a bit hard to compare this CD to his recent work- or to any of his previous work, to be honest. It's got some cut'n'paste compositions reminiscent of his _Cobra_ era, and it's got some lounge-y tracks that sound as if they've been lifted off of a Francoise Hardy LP. It's a fun CD, so don't be expecting a Masada-like work by any means... =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen drury <stevedrury@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: On the Subject of Zorn and Composing Date: 03 Nov 1998 05:46:31 -0500 At 03:05 AM 10/18/98 -0600, Peter wrote: >I know this is late, but I been reading the subject of, does Zorn really = >deserve the "Composer" credit or royalties considering the musicians are = >improvising and doing the real "work".... This is also a late response, as I've been on the road in Europe with our boy this last 2 weeks. What with the large and growing body of fully written-out material using traditional notation JZ has created (Angelus Novus, Carny, Dark River, Aporias, Cat o Nine Tails, etc. -- pieces where every sound the musicians make is completely notated), the notational complexity and detailed, intricate quality of the music (layers of stuff you only hear with a score in hand or after dozens of hearings), and continuing attention to detail (on this last tour, I saw JZ making ever-more refined adjustments of the writing at nearly every performance -- an octave displacement here, a volume change there, removing or adding a few notes or a few bars), not to mention the structural symmetries and abstract consideration of form that lie behind an improvisation-based piece like Cobra (the relationships between certain calls is really fascinating, such as the balance between the "mouth" cues which produce a fixed group of players and the "nose" cues which create evolving, fluctuating groups), it seems clear to me that JZ had earned the right to be regarded as a composer. --- steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin Schmitz-Ohrndorf <ohrndorf@zippel.de> Subject: Re: Dresser etc. Date: 03 Nov 1998 14:22:38 +0200 > Could it be that one? > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *** - UN CHIEN ANDALOU: Mark Dresser > > Mark Dresser; Anthony Coleman; Mike Sarin. > > 1997 - Knitting Factory Works (USA), ??? (CD) > > Note: not released yet (planned for November 1997). > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I think the title of the album comes from the "Silent Movies, Lound Music" series kf used to do. The band also performed a couple of years ago in Europe playing the the famous b&w movie UN CHIEN ANDALOU. But at that time it was Dresser, Coleman and Speed and it was really great. At that time I also saw Samm Bennett playing solo to some kind of old b&w cartoon movies. Does anyone know that was? Are there any recordings? Samm played electric drums, sampler and stuff like that and it was also very good. Martin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: Various CDs/Vinyl FS ... Date: 03 Nov 1998 08:23:16 -0500 Hi, Please pardon the intrusion ... I have the following items for sale, first come, first served ... Prices are in _US $_ and are POSTAGE PAID within North America. Shipping on orders outside NA can be arranged. NOTE: If you don't like the prices, make me an offer. * Final - "Solaris" US CDEP (Alley Sweeper) 1995 $8 * Ground Zero - "Conflagration" JAP CD (Creativeman) 1997 $13 Remixes of GZ's "Consume Red" by Gastr Del Sol, Bob Ostertag, Stock, Hausen & Walkman, Violent Onsen Geisha and others. * Head Of David - "Dogbreath" UK 12" (Blast First) 1986 $10 * Head Of David - "LP" UK LP (Blast First) 1986 $12 * James Plotkin (as Jupiter Crew) - "Jungle Concr=E9t" UK 12" (Possible - DOSS 12 005) 1996 $8 * Merzbow - "Age Of 369/Chant 2" CAN 2CD (Extreme) 1996 $16 Double of early material from 1984. * Merzbow - "Electric Salad" US CD (Etherworld) 1996 $20 Sleeve autographed by Masami & Reiko A. o/p. * Merzbow - "Green Wheels" US CD+5"vinyl (Self Abuse) 1995 $25 In 7"-sized box with artwork and booklet. Price takes shipping into account. * Merzbow - "Noizhead" UK CD (Blast First) 1995 (/1000) $12 * Merzbow - "Rod Drug '93" US 7" (Way Out Sound) 1993 $8 From the "Art Of ..." series in cardboard sleeve with artwork and insert. o/p. * Merzbow/Cock E.S.P. - "Music For Man With No Name" US 7" (Fusetron/Stuart) 1994 $7 * Miles Davis - "Bitches Brew" US 2CD (Columbia - G2K 40577) $15 * PCM - "Year Zero E.P." UK 12" (Possible - DOSS 12 001) 1996 $8 * Pork Queen - "Strang" CAN CD (Scratch) 1995 $9 4 tracks of simple ambient chiming & droning guitar textures using various devices, effects and methods. * Sauter, Dietrich, Moore - "Barefoot In The Head" US LP (Forced Exposu= re) 1990 $12 For more items (remaining from previous sales) please check out: http://www.astro.utoronto.ca/~carey/sofa/sale.html Thanks for looking. -Patrick pm.carey@utoronto.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "john clasen" <joclasen@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: recent goodies Date: 03 Nov 1998 06:42:07 PST > >P.P.S. Personally, though, I'm still hoping for "Great Jewish Music: Stanley >Eisen and Chaim Witz" (I'm absolutely serious... engage me in debate on the >subject if you dare...). At this pace,it seems you`ll only be getting: Great jewish music:.........."KISS"!!! Jo ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: varese > dolphy Date: 03 Nov 1998 09:55:44 -0500 (EST) On Tue, 3 Nov 1998, Steve Smith wrote: > Density 21.5 (devastating and lovely solo flute piece - inspired Eric > Dolphy, among others) eric dolphy actually performed this piece publicly, although i don't know of any recordings. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be> Subject: Re: On the Subject of Zorn and Composing Date: 03 Nov 1998 17:03:49 +0100 Stephen Drury wrote: > ... , it > seems clear to me that JZ had earned the right to be regarded as a composer. And as a roadie: After the Brussels concert a review in a major Flemish Newpaper ("De Morgen") was titled "John Zorn : composer and roadie". According to the reporter Zorn was very busy rearranging tables chairs, and microphones between the pieces. John Zorn: Roadie of the Year !!! YVes - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: recent goodies Date: 03 Nov 1998 08:23:45 -0800 On Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:10:18 -0800 "Christian Heslop" wrote: > > It doesn't include "Le Croix De Sud"? A fantastic song. La Croix du Sud is part of Offrandes, no? Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: On the Subject of Zorn and Composing Date: 03 Nov 1998 11:30:13 -0500 (EST) On Tue, 3 Nov 1998, Yves Dewulf wrote: > And as a roadie: > After the Brussels concert a review in a major Flemish Newpaper > ("De Morgen") was titled "John Zorn : composer and roadie". > According to the reporter Zorn was very busy rearranging tables > chairs, and microphones between the pieces. > > John Zorn: Roadie of the Year !!! that reminds me...i was doing some research last friday at the library of congress and i found a photograph of zorn and eugene chadbourne in the village voice from 1979. the caption advertised an evening of improv with "eugene chadbourne and john zora" (sic) and even funnier, zorn had a mustache! brent - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: recent goodies Date: 03 Nov 1998 08:32:54 -0800 On Mon, 02 Nov 1998 21:11:24 -0500 "Caleb T. Deupree" wrote: > > Tetsu Inoue's new piece, Waterloo Terminal. Before you think, 'wait, did > someone just switch me over to the ambient list?', the reference point here > is much more Oval than any dub, ambient, or space music. Crunchy noises, > made in part by scanning pictures and plans from the Terminal into a sound > generator program, dominate this new entry in Caipirinha's latest entry in > the architecture series. I've only heard this once so far, but (despite my > name dropping of Oval) it doesn't really sound like anything else, and I > think has promise. I haven't heard his Tzadik album, so I can't compare ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If you are a David Behrman fan, you will love it. It has the same kind of organic quality. The record ends with an energetic duo with Ikue Mori. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marks, Andy" <Andy.Marks@mts.com> Subject: RE: On the Subject of Zorn's Mustache Date: 03 Nov 1998 10:57:11 -0600 Scan that baby in and post it!!!! > that reminds me...i was doing some research last friday at the library of > congress and i found a photograph of zorn and eugene chadbourne in the > village voice from 1979. the caption advertised an evening of improv > with "eugene chadbourne and john zora" (sic) and even funnier, zorn had > a mustache! > > brent > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christian Heslop" <xian@mbay.net> Subject: Re: recent goodies Date: 03 Nov 1998 11:58:08 -0800 Oops, I lost my Edgar Varese cd's a long time ago.Sorry for the gaffe, my statement was more a declaration of like than a critique of the collection's content. So my mistake was hopefully a harmless one. ---------- > From: Patrice L. Roussel <proussel@ichips.intel.com> > > > > On Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:10:18 -0800 "Christian Heslop" wrote: > > > > It doesn't include "Le Croix De Sud"? A fantastic song. > > La Croix du Sud is part of Offrandes, no? > > Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Dresser etc. *** - UN CHIEN ANDALOU: Mark Dresser Date: 03 Nov 1998 12:09:03 -0800 On Tue, 03 Nov 1998 14:22:38 +0200 Martin Schmitz-Ohrndorf wrote: > > At that time I also saw Samm Bennett playing solo to some kind of old b&w > cartoon movies. Does anyone know that was? Are there any recordings? Samm > played electric drums, sampler and stuff like that and it was also very > good. Could it KOKO THE CLOWN? To my knowledge, this was never recorded. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: John Zorn at the Barbican, London, 29th October 1998 Date: 03 Nov 1998 16:29:08 -0800 This was posted on the rec.music.classical.contemporary news group. ------- Forwarded Message Newsgroups: rec.music.classical.contemporary ZZZap! John Zorn Ensemble at the Barbican, 29th October, 1998 All the photographs of John Zorn used to promote the concert showed a man with short hair û so when the Kurt Cobain lookalike in grey/white combat trousers leapt onto the Barbican stage a few of us must have wondered who he was. But John Zorn it was and he introduced us to a variety of soundscapes during the two plus hours his ensemble wove their way through the evening. Ranging from solo piano to small ensembles the difference in instrumentation created a rich variety of different sonic textures for the audience to peruse. The programme listed 17 possible selections from which Zorn would be selecting the eveningÆs music so until he announced them we didnÆt know quite what to expect! Much of ZornÆs work consists of short, disjointed phrases that run together. During a concert earlier this year David Harrington of Kronos explained that Zorn writes down his ideas on cards and then arranges the cards together as to make his pieces. As such each piece is made up of a number of individual phrases each of which explores a little something different from the rest. They are then all jumbled up into a wild mixture of melodies, tones, dynamics and styles. Zorn canÆt be called either a minimalist or an improviser but elements of both run through his music. Eclectic he definitely is and his music is cut through with musical jokes, parodies and ironic asides! It is therefore no surprise to find the first piece of the programme moving between minimalist single notes, to classical riffs and free jazz improvisations. A solo piano piece ôCarnyö (1992) played by Steve Drury was full of restless momentum, although t didnÆt seem to get anywhere. I have to say it did leave me a bit cold. I like a little progression in my music and whilst many of the short phrases were witty or clever, together they didnÆt really gel for me. My brother, who came with me, loved it however. A similar ôcut-upö or ôpost-modernö technique was used for the second piece, a string quartet called ôMemento Moriö (1992) with Mark Feldman (v), Joyce Hammann (v), Lois Martin (viola) and Erik Friedlander (c). A wide range of different kinds of musical phrases, interweaving because of the string quartet format, roared by. Because of the tonal range of the instruments, their interaction and the intense use of plucking, the variety of sounds was much richer than in ôCarneyö and I enjoyed it a lot more. The second half opened with the oddly entitled ôMusic for Childrenö (1996) although IÆm not sure what any children might have made of it! Violin, Piano and Percussion (by Willie Winant) played off against each other with some ferocious and wonderfully textured playing. Willie WinantÆs furious racing from one form of percussion to another gave the music a liveliness that the first two pieces had lacked. Marimba, drum, Japanese gongs and xylophone were augmented by what sounded like a saucepan full of frozen peas, what appeared to be an old flight bag and the splintering sounds of wooden boards being broken up! The whap, whap, whap of the flight bag was greeted with hearty chortles from the audience and hopeful Zorn meant beating the bag to be witty. The slow splintering of wood was, however oddly effective; and I have to admit to have rolled peas around a saucepan at home already to get the wonderful effect I heard that evening! What followed was the most truly wonderful part of the evening. Why the next piece was called ôRugbyö(1983) I donÆt know û but Zorn has written a number of ôgameö pieces û ôLacrosseö (1977) and ôHockeyö(1978) were also on the menu for the night û but not selected. Five musicians û cello, piano (Anthony Coleman), two percussionists (Winant and Jim Pugliese) were joined by Zorn himself on sax. Steve Drury took the role of musical director, although it looked more like referee! He held up a series of cards on which were written single words û Interchange, Choral, Transpose and Clock, were amongst them. This last had Drury using his slowly lowered arm to count out playing time. The five players took turns to play wild improvisations which either fitted together with what other players were doing or bounced (or careered really) off and away from them. Making signs like tic-tac men they would hastily confer about where they were going next û not that it was easy to predict! Zorn showed just how good a musician he is, blasting away phrases and noises rich in texture and articulation, twisting in his seat as he rung sounds out of his instrument. The wild improvisational quality of ôRugbyö, the obvious glee at which the musicians interacted ad the sheer unpredictability of the fabulous noises they made together made the whole piece dramatically exciting and sparkling in its inventiveness. It was followed by another String Quartet ôKolnidreö (1996). This short but stately piece was much different to the wilder improvised pieces played before. Almost sombre it had much more form and its long, languid notes slowly built upon each other. It reminded me a lot of Gavin Bryars. It was a beautiful piece, very restful and sorrowful. At one point a long chord, held by the entire Quartet, reached the sublime level that normally only Arvo Part reaches. A great contrast to the turbulent pieces played earlier. One of the best things about the popularity of music such as ZornÆs and the Kronos Quartet is that ôclassicalö musicians nowadays do encores. So after a lot of clapping and footstomping, of bowing and smiling Zorn jumped back onstage to thank us for enjoying his music and introduce ôCat oÆ nine tailsö (1998). He actually went back into the dressing room and from where I was I could hear him say ôThey really want Cat folksö to the string quartet. It is perhaps his ôgreatest hitö as the Kronos Quartet feature it û they played it at the Bath Festival back in June and is probably his most well known work. However, having heard Kronos play it IÆd have preferred something else. It is a wonderful piece though and was superbly played. Again itÆs a mix of pastiches of classical string quartets, extrapolations of improvisations and loony tunes. Given the witty pastiches I sometimes wondered if the ôfreakyö sounds they went for were themselves parodies of ôfreeö playing û but I think I was the only one laughing. Altogether it was an invigorating evening. ôRugbyö and ôMusic for Childrenö stood out as exciting and dramatic whilst ôKolnidreö was stunning in its emotional intensity. ⌐ Mark Hustwitt 3rd November 1998 ------- End of Forwarded Message - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: al.t@mtnhdw.com (Al T) Subject: Hanrahan recs? Date: 04 Nov 1998 08:07:23 GMT Hi, I'd bought Exotica unheard based on a review and loved it! So I recently purchased A Thousand Nights & A Night...and ended up listen to Exotica a bunch more<g>. So where's Exotica relative to the titles folks have been recommending? (To refresh, Desire Developes an Edge and Verticals Currency were specifically recommended.) I'm delighted to see a Hanrahan thread! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Benton <rancor@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu> Subject: Dresser's 'Un Chien Andalou' Date: 03 Nov 1998 20:38:48 -0600 (CST) Regarding the confusion about the lineup on this record: It's Mark Dresser, Anthony Coleman, and Chris Speed. I expect it will be out sooner than later, I asked Dresser about it today and he had just gotten his copies yesterday. I for one am certainly excited about it... -tom (by the way, to everyone who's wondering if they've been imagining things, I'm pretty certain the original KF press did in fact read that it was Michael Sarin completing the trio rather than Speed...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Re: John Oswald/David Prentice across the states Date: 03 Nov 1998 22:50:05 -0500 At 04:49 AM 11/3/98 -0500, Adam MacGregor wrote: >Does anybody know of any recordings >in existence of Oswald on alto? I'd like to relive those glorious several >minutes of terror... I haven't heard it, but there is a live recording of duets between Oswald on alto and Henry Kaiser, recorded in 1978 and 1996 (in the same hall no less). It's listed at Wayside. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers -- Pablo Picasso - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: recent goodies Date: 04 Nov 1998 00:01:39 -0500 john clasen wrote: > > > >P.P.S. Personally, though, I'm still hoping for "Great Jewish Music: > Stanley > >Eisen and Chaim Witz" (I'm absolutely serious... engage me in debate on > the > >subject if you dare...). > > At this pace,it seems you`ll only be getting: > > Great jewish music:.........."KISS"!!! Hey, I *want* the best... but will I *get* the best? ;-) Steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: recent goodies Date: 04 Nov 1998 00:04:52 -0500 Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > On Mon, 2 Nov 1998 23:10:18 -0800 "Christian Heslop" wrote: > > > > It doesn't include "Le Croix De Sud"? A fantastic song. > > La Croix du Sud is part of Offrandes, no? Yes, indeed, the second movement, and wonderfully sung here by Sarah Leonard. (Patrice, you never cease to amaze me.) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Hanrahan recs? Date: 04 Nov 1998 00:19:31 -0500 Al T wrote: > So where's Exotica relative to the titles folks have been recommending? (To > refresh, Desire Developes an Edge and Verticals Currency were specifically > recommended.) I haven't listened to "Exotica" as much as the earlier albums, so I can't compare substantively. But, as I said before, "Desire Develops an Edge" is one of my all-time "to die for" albums - a singular experience, naked emotion, genuine lyrical artistry, an art film from beginning to end, and "Vertical's Currency" is similar, only smoother and more romantic. Jack Bruce has never sounded lovelier as a singer, and the meeting of Downtown edge with older worlds (Santeria, tango, African percussion) I find damn near irresistible. I also find the first "Conjure" record to be of similar high quality, but haven't ever heard the second. "Days and Nights of Blue Luck Inverted" is also nice, though I find the fey vocals by Fernando Saunders (Lou Reed's great fretless bassist of the '80s) a step down from Bruce's bald male-issimo. I'm ready to immerse myself in new stuff, even if it's been sitting around for a while. "Why do these blues seem so damn sweet to me?" Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Anthony Coleman Date: 04 Nov 1998 00:42:06 -0500 (EST) Someone asked about Anthony Coleman CDs besides the first Sephardic Tinge. After about 10 listens I think I can officially recommend the new Sephardic Tinge as well, there's nothing as great as "ladino Passacaglia" but overall its maybe more coherent as a whole. Dark and brooding but in a different way than the Masada Chamber Ensembles, actually there's more humor in S.T. And musically Coleman's stuff is more twisted, the forms are really odd too - not much head solo head stuff at all. I can't recommend the second Selfhaters CD, because I really didn't 'get' it, I don't hink. Still interesting though.I wonder if anyone who has heard both, if they could compare them... On an unrelated note, did anyone get or hear the "Self Indulgent Music" CD on Tzadik? Not that the sound sample I heard was so promising, but I was just wondering - anyone? WY - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Rath <fripp@ibm.net> Subject: Re: John Oswald/David Prentice across the states Date: 04 Nov 1998 00:01:20 -0600 At 10:50 PM 11/3/98 -0500, you wrote: >At 04:49 AM 11/3/98 -0500, Adam MacGregor wrote: >>Does anybody know of any recordings >>in existence of Oswald on alto? I'd like to relive those glorious several >>minutes of terror... > >I haven't heard it, but there is a live recording of duets between Oswald >on alto and Henry Kaiser, recorded in 1978 and 1996 (in the same hall no >less). It's listed at Wayside. > I just purchased (but haven't had time to listen to yet) a recording called "Acoustics" featuring Oswald on Alto, Kaiser on acoustic guitar, O'Rourke on Acoustic guitar and Mari Kimura on Violin. It's on Victo, released in 1994. From the samples I've heard so far, it should be quite good, though I don't know about "terror" yet. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin Schmitz-Ohrndorf <ohrndorf@zippel.de> Subject: Re: Bennett, Kazetoki Umezu Date: 04 Nov 1998 09:58:35 +0200 > > > > At that time I also saw Samm Bennett playing solo to some kind of old b&w > > cartoon movies. Does anyone know that was? Are there any recordings? Samm > > played electric drums, sampler and stuff like that and it was also very > > good. > > Could it KOKO THE CLOWN? To my knowledge, this was never recorded. > > Patrice. > Yes, I remeber it was KOKO THE CLOWN. I imagine a recording of Samms music for that film maybe would not impress me like the performance. The music worked perfectly for the movie and was really a part of it. This is a problem I had with quite a few of those movie performances. Videos of the original movies with the new music on them is something I really miss. I guess it has something to do with copyright problems. BTW does anyone know what Samm Bennett is now involved in. My latest, but at least 2 years old news is that he is living in japan. The same for Kazetoki Umezu. I love his "first deserter" recording with Ribot, Cora. Has anyone else heard Umezus klezmer recording? I think this one is quite fun to listen to. Martin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin Schmitz-Ohrndorf <ohrndorf@zippel.de> Subject: Tim Berne, Hank Roberts Date: 04 Nov 1998 10:16:33 +0200 Yesterday I caught a performance of Tim Bernes Paraphrase here in Cologne. As always I liked it very much. The only thing is that Tom Rainey is always playing so lound, although I enjoy what he is playing. It really blew my ears. The other thing was that after the last tune Tim said "I don't like playing encores. It is nothing personal". This is OK for me, as the band really gave a lot of energy to the music through the regular performance time. For me even the complexest musical performance has some entertaining elements and I feel that Tim is taking his music very, very serious. But maybe I'm wrong. As I saw on the levelgreen website http://www.levelgreen.com/ there will be or is a duo recording with Tim and cellist Hank Roberts. Has anyone heard it? Are there any opinions concerning the other two levelgreen Hank Roberts CDs? Martin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Pigpen Date: 04 Nov 1998 10:13:58 GMT0BST There are some good pieces on V As In Victim, but I find it pales next to Miss Ann, which is more energetic and sustained, and which I can kighly recommend. It's only about 40 minutes long, tho'. Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: limited percussion Date: 04 Nov 1998 10:24:00 GMT0BST Well, I have to add that Max Roach, in concert in Glasgow in 1994, came out for an encore without the other three guys, unscrewed his snare drum, and brought it to the front of the stage, and just played on that. Superb! (Has anyone ever noticed how he looks like Chief Judge Silver from Judge Dredd? Or am I in the cultural backwater of British comics of the late 70s - early 80s, here?) Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Anders Fransson <anders.fransson@bibl.hoe.se> Subject: Glenn Branca Date: 04 Nov 1998 12:46:24 +0100 Have anyone see any rewiews about the Glenn Branca concert at the Barbican in London this weekend? When does the Symphony no. 11 enter the market? Anders -- ____________________________________________________________________________ Anders Fransson, Biblioteket, Hogskolan i Orebro, 701 82 Orebro, Sweden. e-mail: anders.fransson@bibl.hoe.se Phone +46 19 30 38 66 Fax +46 19 30 38 55 ____________________________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: GJM:Kiss was Re[2]: recent goodies Date: 03 Nov 1998 09:56:46 -0500 Steve wrote: >P.P.S. Personally, though, I'm still hoping for "Great Jewish Music: Stanley >Eisen and Chaim Witz" (I'm absolutely serious... engage me in debate on the >subject if you dare...). I confess I had NO idea what or whom you were talking about until an Alta Vista search uncovered the horrifying truth. While I'm sure I've absorbed by cultural osmosis some Kiss product, I couldn't, off the top of my head, name or identify a piece (be thankful for small favors!). But I fear I'd be even more dubious about this project than the Bolan one which, so far, I've had no inclination to sample. Nothing against plumbing the dross of pop music for hidden jewels; I thought the Bacharach project was a wonderful idea, having always wondered why more jazzers didn't follow Kirk's lead and record more BB covers. Similarly with Gainsbourg. But who knows? To the extent it could possibly work, I'd rather hear the songs tackled by non-rock-oriented performers or ensembles. Somehow, the idea of Kramer or Sean Lennon interpreting a Kiss tune leaves me yawning. How about GJM: Tuli Kupferberg? Lisa Loeb (guessing)? Theodore Bikel? Alan Sherman! Yamantaka Eye covering 'Hello Muddah'! Brian (Honk If You Love Judas) Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Daren S Williams <Daren_Williams@uk.ibm.com> Subject: Re: John Zorn at the Barbican, London, 29th October 1998 Date: 04 Nov 1998 13:22:32 +0000 > Given the witty pastiches I sometimes wondered if the 'freaky' > sounds they went for were themselves parodies of 'free' playing - but= I > think I was the only one laughing. Thanks for the review - but I think other people got the musical jokes = in "Cat o' Nine Tails," "Carny" and the others. It was just a shame that Willie Winant decided to brea= k the first plank of wood over his largish stomach - everyone certainly laughed then! Shame because the n= oise of the audience distracted from the music. Next time Winant broke a plank of wood it w= as thankfully with his foot. I think even he was embarrassed! I had the pleasure of sitting behind Steve Beresford and he certainly e= njoyed it. He was laughing so much I guess he recognised most of Zorn's musical cues. Especially = in Rugby where the band members were asking for the prepared cue/improv cards. Highly entertai= ning watching the players requesting card three by shaking 3 fingers in the air but with Zorn som= etimes shaking his head in disapproval. Zorn also seemed to signal the 'conductor' by flicking hi= s (now long) hair - any ideas on the meaning of this? The musical result was fantastic. I'd never seen Zorn live - shame he = only played on one piece as his technique is fascinating to watch & exhilarating to listen to. Usi= ng his left thigh as a mute was great. I just wish I'd made it to the Masada concert he gave in Edinburgh. Humour in music - wonderful. But I'm left wondering that sometimes wat= ching the group distracted from the music created. But it was fun putting it all together. I've l= istened to Zorn for over 8 years now and it was great to put the actions to the sounds. It's helped my list= ening no end. Does anyone know when Zorn is in the UK next? And is it still possible= to get a recording of Rugby? Regards Daren Williams = - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: Hanrahan recs? Date: 04 Nov 1998 08:11:54 -0500 Steve wrote: >But, as I said before, "Desire Develops an Edge" is one of my all-time "to die >for" albums - a singular experience, naked emotion, genuine lyrical artistry, >an art film from beginning to end, and "Vertical's Currency" is >similar, only smoother and more romantic. Heartily seconded. Both albums are must-haves and, aside from some of Hanrahan's subsequent output, pretty unique sound worlds. I'd only add that 'Make Love 2' from 'Vertical's Currency', were there any justice in the music world, should've made multi-millions on the pop charts. >Jack Bruce has never sounded lovelier as a singer, and the meeting of Downtown >edge with older worlds (Santeria, tango, African percussion) I find damn near >irresistible. I also find the first "Conjure" record to be of similar high >quality, but haven't ever heard the second. It's a bit different, perhaps less earthy, than the first, but still quite enjoyable and worth having. (The title, BTW, is "Cab Calloway Stands in for the Moon"). >"Days and Nights of Blue Luck Inverted" is also nice, though I find the fey >vocals by Fernando Saunders (Lou Reed's great fretless bassist of the '80s) a >step down from Bruce's bald male-issimo. Yeah, but there's that incredible vocal by Clare Bathe! What's the deal with her? Has she ever done anything else? In general, I've always found something of value on KH's releases (and, in fact, on just about anything released on American Clave--check out Jerry Gonzalez' "Ya Yo Ma Cure"), though again, I'd agree with Steve that the two records he cited are the cream of the crop. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Hanrahan recs? Date: 04 Nov 1998 08:24:20 -0800 On Wed, 04 Nov 98 08:11:54 -0500 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > I was checking my Arto Lindsay discography and realized that COUP DE TETE has only one pressing (LP from 1981). Could it be that it never got a CD reissue? Any help about subsequent pressing is welcome. Thanks, Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: John Oswald/David Prentice across the states Date: 04 Nov 1998 08:47:30 -0800 On Tue, 03 Nov 1998 22:50:05 -0500 "Caleb T. Deupree" wrote: > > At 04:49 AM 11/3/98 -0500, Adam MacGregor wrote: > >Does anybody know of any recordings > >in existence of Oswald on alto? I'd like to relive those glorious several > >minutes of terror... > > I haven't heard it, but there is a live recording of duets between Oswald > on alto and Henry Kaiser, recorded in 1978 and 1996 (in the same hall no > less). It's listed at Wayside. And there is the historic one: *** - MOOSE AND SALMON: Henry Kaiser, Toshinori Kondo & John Oswald ???? - Music Gallery Editions (Canada), MGE 30 (LP) From the late '70s (or early '80s). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MeandMrRay@aol.com Subject: Mix Tape Swap Date: 04 Nov 1998 12:19:27 EST Hello Everyone, I've done this on a few other listserv's, and thought it would be perfect for this list. I'm going to try to set up a mix tape swap. Anyone that was interested would make a 90min. mixtape to send, and in return would receive a 90min. mixtape. This is a great way to hear new music, and to share your favorites with a complete stranger. If anyone is interested, drop me a line and give me your address. I'm going to leave this open until Monday. On Monday morning I will post the structure. I wont be pairing people up (unless they are from out of the US, then I may have to for shipping cost reasons) instead I will be using a: Person A sends to Person B, who sends to C, who sends to D... you get the picture. The last person on the list will send to the first person. If anyone would rather do a mixtape on Minidisc, I will pair up with them (I love making mix MD's). If your interested, you will need to be able to send within a week or so from next Monday (when I post the structure). I'm asking everyone to please use a high bias tape (XLII, SA90.. Something like that). Anyone that's interested, send me your address and you will be part of the fun. Looking forward to hearing some new music. Greg PS. I will also be taking people from the Boston Improv list, so If you get this twice I apologize! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JUAN ENRIQUE VILLARREAL SALAZAR <al583856@mail.mty.itesm.mx> Subject: MicroZorn Date: 04 Nov 1998 11:42:34 -0600 (CST) I was watching TV the other day when I stumbled upon a Microsft ad with cows in it. The music seemed very familiar. And then I recognized it. Microsoft used the music for the end titles of "Anton, Mailman" in their cow commercial. Pretty good, don't you think? I just thought you'd like to know. Ahi la vimos en la tarde, Juan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ethan <eclauset@webslingerZ.com> Subject: Re: Oswald on alto Date: 04 Nov 1998 13:19:45 -0500 (EST) john oswald plays alto on 7/17 cuts of henry kaiser's first record "ice death" also. dunno if it's in print or not; it was recorded in 1977 and released on parachute records. all improv stuff except capt. beefheart's 'dali's car,' also features eugene chadbourne & others. ethan > Date: Tue, 03 Nov 1998 22:50:05 -0500 > From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> > Subject: Re: John Oswald/David Prentice across the states > > At 04:49 AM 11/3/98 -0500, Adam MacGregor wrote: > >Does anybody know of any recordings > >in existence of Oswald on alto? I'd like to relive those glorious several > >minutes of terror... > > I haven't heard it, but there is a live recording of duets between Oswald > on alto and Henry Kaiser, recorded in 1978 and 1996 (in the same hall no > less). It's listed at Wayside. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "The Cyberschloss at Schloss Chatsworth" <schloss@mail.com> Subject: Re: John Zorn at the Barbican, London, 29th October 1998 Date: 05 Nov 1998 00:39:58 -0000 Daren Williams wrote: <snip> I had the pleasure of sitting behind Steve Beresford and he certainly enjoyed it. <snip> If you were in the seat immediately behind SB you were presumably sitting next to me (FWIW). And all three of us had the pleasure of listening to Stephen Drury's playing, amongst other delights on offer. Thanks!. Christopher Walker - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Hanrahan recs? Date: 04 Nov 1998 20:19:39 -0500 At 08:24 AM 11/4/98 -0800, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > >I was checking my Arto Lindsay discography and realized that COUP DE TETE has >only one pressing (LP from 1981). Could it be that it never got a CD reissue? > >Any help about subsequent pressing is welcome. cdnow lists a german import, no label, but the catalogue number is SELEC M9759. As a result of this thread, I've been going back through my Hanrahan music, loving every bit. No one's mentioned All Roads Are Made of Flesh, which has a great live version of Jelly Roll Morton's Buddy Bolden's Blues (one of the few examples of Hanrahan performing a cover), and boy do they sound great live! I also prefer his work with Jack Bruce. Hanrahan seems able to get the best work from Bruce, better by far than any other context in which I've heard him. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers -- Pablo Picasso - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Hanrahan recs? Date: 04 Nov 1998 20:32:55 -0500 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > >"Days and Nights of Blue Luck Inverted" is also nice, though I find the fey > >vocals by Fernando Saunders (Lou Reed's great fretless bassist of the '80s) a > >step down from Bruce's bald male-issimo. > > Yeah, but there's that incredible vocal by Clare Bathe! What's the deal with > her? Has she ever done anything else? Claire Bathe? Do you mean Carmen Lundy on "Love Is Like a Cigarette"? If the latter, she's still around, gigging sporadically, but her career just never really took off. While I'm still of the opinion that Saunders is a weaker vocalist than Bruce generally speaking, I pulled out the disc again and it still does have its special charms: Leo Nocentelli's guitar and Steve Swallow's bass are wry and slithering, Lew Soloff's solo on "Cigarette" is wonderfully understated in an old-way, John Stubblefield is titanic. The Piazzolla tune played by David Murray and three of Piazzolla's musicians is magnificent. And the very quality of Saunders's voice that I find "lesser" for most of the album is set to devastatingly perfect use in those unaccompanied and emotionally naked passages in "The First and Last to Love Me." A few short notes from the end run (to borrow a phrase): - Nobody, but nobody, records percussion better than Kip. The title track of "Desire Develops an Edge" and the track "A Poker Game" on "Days and Nights" demonstrate this perfectly. - The lyrics of "A Poker Game" are simply brilliant... one of Hanrahan's fewish straight narratives, about four friends playing poker on a boat, and one of them can't stop winning every single hand... "When he tried to buy them champagne with the money / It was like trying to make them drink their own piss." - The use of Arto Lindsay's guitar scratch on "Desire" and "Vertical's Currency" is some of the canniest orchestration I can imagine. - Patrice: "Coup de Tete" was issued on CD in Europe by veraBra at some point, or at least such a release was planned - it's pictured in the Hanrahan catalog on the booklet included with "Tenderness." Two tracks and an excerpt of a third were included in the American Clave anthology of 1993. And the 1986 veraBra pressing of "Desire" on CD does include "Jack and the Golden Palominos." - Brian: You couldn't be a bit more correct about "Make Love 2," and "A Small Map of Heaven" is also deliriously beautiful. Hanrahan has referred to "Vertical's Currency" as his "Smokey Robinson record." Geez, not many artists drive me to such extremes of praise, but Kip's records from "Desire" to "Days and Nights" absolutely do it for me - few albums I know include so much to hear and so much to remember. And as you said, there's at least something to recommend most of the others. The 1993 anthology (out of print now?) was also a terrific way to sample the rest of the label's output, from DNA to Astor Piazzolla, Paul Haines (that anthology that included Derek Bailey, Evan Parker, Bobby Previte, Wayne Horvitz, Robert Wyatt, too many others to name) to Milton Cardona. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Kip Hanrahan - "Days and Nights of Blue Luck Inverted" (and Fernando's voice is growing on me just like it did ten years ago...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Hanrahan recs? Date: 04 Nov 1998 20:19:39 -0500 At 08:24 AM 11/4/98 -0800, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > >I was checking my Arto Lindsay discography and realized that COUP DE TETE has >only one pressing (LP from 1981). Could it be that it never got a CD reissue? > >Any help about subsequent pressing is welcome. cdnow lists a german import, no label, but the catalogue number is SELEC M9759. As a result of this thread, I've been going back through my Hanrahan music, loving every bit. No one's mentioned All Roads Are Made of Flesh, which has a great live version of Jelly Roll Morton's Buddy Bolden's Blues (one of the few examples of Hanrahan performing a cover), and boy do they sound great live! I also prefer his work with Jack Bruce. Hanrahan seems able to get the best work from Bruce, better by far than any other context in which I've heard him. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers -- Pablo Picasso - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> Subject: Re: Hanrahan recs? Date: 04 Nov 1998 21:20:00 -0500 Steve Smith wrote: > Claire Bathe? Do you mean Carmen Lundy on "Love Is Like a Cigarette"? If the > latter, she's still around, gigging sporadically, but her career just never > really took off. Ach! Getting my Hanrahan confused. Bathe (there's an accent on the "e") is on that second Conjure record, where she sings a stellar version of Allen Toussaint's 'Running for the Office of Love', another song deserving of mega airplay. She's also, like many of the females KH seems to associate himself with, stunningly beautiful. > - The lyrics of "A Poker Game" are simply brilliant... one of Hanrahan's fewish > straight narratives, about four friends playing poker on a boat, and one of them > can't stop winning every single hand... "When he tried to buy them champagne with > the money / It was like trying to make them drink their own piss." KH's lyrics in general, even at their self-pitying, hair-shirt extreme are several ply deeper than you're likely to find elsewhere, pop or avant. > - Brian: You couldn't be a bit more correct about "Make Love 2," and "A Small Map > of Heaven" is also deliriously beautiful. Hanrahan has referred to "Vertical's > Currency" as his "Smokey Robinson record." Another in that same category, though not quite so overtly pop-oriented is 'Two (Still in Half-Life)' from DDAE. The sound of the entwined electric basses of Swallow and Tacuma is one of the most sensual I've ever heard. What an incredible song! > Paul Haines (that anthology that included Derek Bailey, Evan Parker, Bobby > Previte, Wayne Horvitz, Robert Wyatt, too many others to name) And some of the best Paul Bley I've heard in recent years. What's Haines do day in day out? Anyone know? >to Milton Cardona. His 'Bembe' is delightful and he's an amazing musician to catch live. Brian Olewnick NP: Gustafsson/Guy/Lovens-- Mouth Eating Trees - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> Subject: Re: Hanrahan recs? Date: 04 Nov 1998 22:01:08 -0500 Caleb T. Deupree wrote: > and boy do they sound great live! I also prefer his work with Jack > Bruce. Hanrahan seems able to get the best work from Bruce, better > by far than any other context in which I've heard him. I only caught Hanrahan's band live once, at the Public Theater (NYC), probably around 1985-86. It was kind of strange and disjointed, Kip running around the stage, side to side, whispering instructions to band members, pointing out cues, etc. Bruce seemed a bit bemused by it all, singing his lines off of lyric sheets and, truth be told, acted a bit condescending; once, after a typical purple-toned KH lyric, he mumbled something like, "I'm only reading what's here..." Perhaps it was simply an under-rehearsed performance. I'd be interested to hear from other folk who've caught him live. Brian Olewnick NP: Dama Mahaleo, 'Kobaka' - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cd <cappyd@uvic.ca> Subject: Masada in Seattle Date: 05 Nov 1998 00:56:08 -0800 Anyone attending the Masada show on Friday in Seattle? -Cappone D'Angelo - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Daren S Williams <Daren_Williams@uk.ibm.com> Subject: Re: John Zorn at the Barbican, London, 29th October 1998 Date: 05 Nov 1998 11:26:28 +0000 Christopher Walker wrote: > If you were in the seat immediately behind SB you were presumably sit= ting > next to me (FWIW). Well my partner & I we in seats M45 & M46 (as I remember). Not sure if= I'm being stupid but wot's FWIW? Stephen Drury playing Carny was fantastic. My girlfriend hadn't heard = much John Zorn before (I only subjected her to Masada) but she reckoned Carny was worth the price on = entry alone. Which actually didn't mean a helluva lot as I bought the tickets! Cheers Daren Williams = - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sean Terwilliger <seanter@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Hanrahan recs? Date: 05 Nov 1998 08:40:47 -0500 "Patrice L. Roussel" wrote: > I was checking my Arto Lindsay discography and realized that COUP DE TETE has > only one pressing (LP from 1981). Could it be that it never got a CD reissue? > Nope. I've got the Cd. It's a German American Clave issue. Stock # 1007. For what it's worth, this is one of my favorite Hanrahan issues. Have we figured out if Shadow Nights 1 is different from Thousand Nights 1? -Sean - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sean Terwilliger <seanter@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Hanrahan recs? Date: 05 Nov 1998 08:53:16 -0500 Steve Smith wrote: > And the 1986 veraBra pressing of "Desire" on CD does include "Jack and the Golden Palominos." Yep! I hve that. In fact I'm listening to it now, thanks to the renewed discussion on this list. I cannot believe the the re-issue did not include that track. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jtalbot@massart.edu Subject: how long? Date: 05 Nov 1998 11:53:41 +0100 i guess i've been on the zorn list for about a year now. my question is how long has the list actually been in existance. thanks peace jt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Martens <ericmartens@yahoo.com> Subject: old news/new question Date: 05 Nov 1998 09:02:50 -0800 (PST) @ the risk of reopening dead wounds (terrible metaphor, that), the other day I came across something that brought to mind the fairly recent discussion of Zorn and composition, particularly the issue of "context": From the Norton Anthology of English Literature, vol. 1, introduction to the selection from Jacobean blood-tragedist John Webster: "Modern scholarship has found a source for nearly every phrase and concept in [Webster's] plays. But, trite though it is to say so, what he makes of his reading is distinctively his own. His art is one of brilliant highlights and black shadows of furtive and dangerous intrigue carried out in the flickering light of hell-fire." (Apologies for the overheated prose, I didn't write it -- & besides: is it any worse than Zorn's liner notes?) Torture Garden, anyone? And the new question, as promised: I just purchased the Fred Hersch/Bill Frisell "Songs we Know" album of standards (& deadly weapons -- thanx for the fdbk.)& I'm curious as to other people's opinion of it. Listening to it right now, the vibe I get is akin to the quiet parts of the GB3 Falling Off the Roof album, a la "Our Spanish Love Song"(1), but then, that's about the only recent Frisell I've heard, so I don't have much to compare to -- the obvious defference here being Hersch's piano and (alas) no Ginger Baker. eric martens 1) (when was the last time you got an email w/ footnotes?) Out of morbid curiosity: Has anyone heard the version of this on the recent Metheny/Haden album (title escapes me . . . Missouri something)? _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mary Ho" <shrekk@hotmail.com> Subject: DeJohnette Date: 05 Nov 1998 10:00:03 PST for any of you in Richmond, Va area, Jack DeJohnette is playing at VCU Performing Arts Center tonight at 8pm. I hear that it is going to be totally improvisational working off of cells. He's playing with his trio. Unfortunately, I can't go because I have to work. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: DeJohnette Date: 05 Nov 1998 12:10:26 -0600 (CST) On Thu, 5 Nov 1998, Mary Ho wrote: > I hear that it is going to be totally improvisational working off of > cells. He's playing with his trio. Unfortunately, I can't go because I > have to work. I'm curious as to what you mean by cells. Are they incorporating precomposed modules into an improvisational stream, or is this something else? I'm curious because Comma is starting to work with Streaming incorporating pieces of existing scores (as somewhat inspired by, various, Braxton, Miles, and the Merce Cunningham "Event" performances). We're running into some interesting challenges in doing it, and I'm interested in seeing how other people approach it. - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mcg580@aol.com Subject: Removal Date: 05 Nov 1998 18:26:32 EST How do I remove myself from this list? I lost the directions - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "The Cyberschloss at Schloss Chatsworth" <schloss@mail.com> Subject: Re: John Zorn at the Barbican, London, 29th October 1998 Date: 06 Nov 1998 01:23:32 -0000 Daren Williams wrote: <snip> Well my partner & I we in seats M45 & M46 (as I remember). Not sure if I'm being stupid but wot's FWIW? <snip> That seems to settle it. We were in M44 & M43, I believe. Sorry about 'FWIW' (it just means 'for what it's worth'). Nice to think I had a listmember for a neighbour. Steve Drury was almost as compelling to watch as to listen to. Carny itself (which I hadn't heard before) suffered a little for me by being the first piece in the programme. My ears were still settling down. Although the running order was, I thought, most effective overall. The sound quality for JZ was also vastly better than for Terry Riley on the Friday, fortunately. Christopher Walker - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: JZ's favorite writing Date: 05 Nov 1998 21:16:18 -0500 I was listening to FW4 this week, and perusing the liner notes, where JZ raves about two books by Jalal Toufic named DISTRACTED and VAMPIRES. Amazon reports that DISTRACTED has a pub date of 1992 but is still unavailable (?), and VAMPIRES has one user review which calls it 'incomprehensible'. He has a third book called OVER-SENSITIVITY. Anyone read these? Are they worth tracking down? -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers -- Pablo Picasso - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Audino <psaudino@interaccess.com> Subject: MatSonNewsOnLine 12/W - 1998 November (fwd) Date: 05 Nov 1998 20:42:20 -0600 (CST) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- MATERIALI SONORI NEWS ON LINE 12/WORLD - 1998 November __________________________________________________________ I. SONORA/ZORN, FINALLY! The new CD + book dedicated to John Zorn will be released on November 20th. The book, edited by Walter Rovere and Carla Chiti, features 144 pages of essays, interviews, scores and photos, including: contributions by Eugene Chadbourne, Carla Chiti, Alberto Pezzotta, Franco Minganti, Claudio Canal, Walter Rovere; three essays on films by John Zorn; two historical essays on the Theatre of Musical Optics by Ela Troyano and Ruggero Bianchi. The CD includes rare or unreleased cuts by Zorn & Chadbourne; Chadbourne, Bradfield & Zorn; 2000 Statues; The Chadbournes with Zorn. Sonora/Zorn is a two-language edition in Italian and English. <snip> III. IN THE NEWSPAPER STANDS: The November 1998 issue of the distinguished British magazine THE WIRE features the CD The Wire Tapper 2, a selection of new international discographic releases. The disc contains "Interference", a piece from the album Meridiem by Percy Howard/Charles Hayward/Fred Frith/Bill Laswell, produced by Materiali Sonori. <snip> ______________________________________________________________________ infos & mail order: matinfo@matson.it fx. 00.39.55.9120370 http://www.matson.it Out 2 Lunch With Lunchmeat, Paul psaudino@interaccess.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Comma Performances This Weekend: DC, NYC, NJ Date: 05 Nov 1998 23:25:55 -0500 We three Zorn=list participants (Joe Zitt, Matt Davis, Tom Bickley) who are the composer/performer/improvisor trio named Comma invite you to attend our upcoming public performances in November and December: Saturday November 7 in Washington, DC 5 pm in-store appearance at DCCD, 2423 18th St NW (in Adams Morgan) 202 588 1810 Free admission Sunday November 8 in NYC, 7 pm in-store appearance at Downtown Music Gallery, 211 E. 5th St (in the East Village) 212 473 0043 Free admission Monday November 9 in Madison, NJ at 8 pm concert at the F.M. Kirby Shakespeare Theatre, Drew University 973 408 3421 Free admission Saturday December 5 in College Park, MD at 5 pm concert at Ulrich Recital Hall, University of Maryland (greater DC area) 301 891 2855 These programs include first performances of Rock Creek by Matt, a vocal work "Houses long and thin along the road" by Tom, some Cage and Stockhausen, selections from our cd (voices) by Joe, and free improv, of course. At Drew will be joined by Norman Lowrey and a select group of students. See the poster at http://ryoanji.isi.net/pdf/fall98final.PDF Directions to Drew: http://www.drew.edu/dir.html Email us for more information: comma@artswire.org Comma appreciates the support from sponsoring organizations allowing us to present these programs free of charge. * disciplined reading * tbickley@artswire.org * haiku structures perception *http://www.artswire.org/tbickley * disciplined writing * http://www.artswire.org/comma -- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: parry@macconnect.com Subject: Kip Hanrahan Date: 06 Nov 1998 02:17:17 -0500 Billy Bang, who is playing down here in Central FL this weekend w/ drummer/percussionist Abbey Rader, said Hanrahan is producing his next album. I believe they're to record it in January. I'm certainly looking forward to that one. Parry - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phil <phil@clarksonp.demon.co.uk> Subject: Other Music NYC Date: 06 Nov 1998 07:58:54 +0000 Does anyone know if Other Music in NYC has a web-site or an e-mail address? Thanks a lot Phil Clarkson phil@clarksonp.demon.co.uk - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re: Hanrahan recs? Date: 06 Nov 1998 09:23:06 -0500 Brian Olewnick wrote: > I only caught Hanrahan's band live once, at the Public Theater (NYC), > probably around 1985-86. It was kind of strange and disjointed, Kip > running around the stage, side to side, whispering instructions to band > members, pointing out cues, etc. Bruce seemed a bit bemused by it all, > singing his lines off of lyric sheets and, truth be told, acted a bit > condescending; once, after a typical purple-toned KH lyric, he mumbled > something like, "I'm only reading what's here..." Perhaps it was simply > an under-rehearsed performance. I'd be interested to hear from other > folk who've caught him live. I agree, that show at the Public( it was july of 84)was kinda loose, but as the band gigged around they got much tighter. By the time they came around again in early 85 the band was smoking.Their show at the Boston Shakespeare theatre in Feb 85 had 4 bassists!; Bruce, Swallow, Laswell and Andy Gonzales, and remains one of the the best examples of "fusion" music that these ears have ever heard. A few days later they were at SOB's in NY. They played 2(or was it 3?) long sets till the wee hours of the morning, the afro-carribean style of the club seemed to be a perfect complement to the music, which was more percussion oriented than the previous show. The band seemed to have really gelled, but then a few months later they did a gig at Carnegie Hall, opening for Reuben Blades, that ,according to Kip, was so bad that he fired the whole band after the show. > Ach! Getting my Hanrahan confused. Bathe (there's an accent on the "e") > is on that second Conjure record, where she sings a stellar version of > Allen Toussaint's 'Running for the Office of Love', another song > deserving of mega airplay. She's also, like many of the females KH seems > to associate himself with, stunningly beautiful. I remember hearing that he married Nancy Weiss, the director of the New Jazz at The Public series, beauty AND good taste....I'm jealous. ;-) RW - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Other Music NYC Date: 06 Nov 1998 09:38:00 -0600 (CST) On Fri, 6 Nov 1998, Phil wrote: > Does anyone know if Other Music in NYC has a web-site or an e-mail address? http://www.othermusic.com/ - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer <keffer@shell.planetc.com> Subject: LE QUAN NINH Ustensilies Date: 06 Nov 1998 13:04:20 -0500 Hello Folks on the Zorn-list, Over the years, there has been numerous mentions of Le Quan Ninh's "Ustensilies" on the list, including a recent mention with regard to successful percussion with a relatively simple set of instruments. Well, I finally decided to check it out and ordered it from Forced Exposure. Forced Exposure is out of stock on "Ustensilies". Is "Ustensilies" still in print? Anybody know of any other mail order distributor in the United States that carries recordings on the "For Four Ears" label? Do any of you that subscribe to Cadence magazine know if Cadence carries "For Four Ears" releases? I know that I can order from Verge in Canada but that means paying Canadian dollar prices with U.S. dollars (not a bargain because Verge sells "For Four Ears" discs for $25 while Forced Exposure lists them at $14). So I am looking for another U.S. distributor. Any info would be appreciated. Thanks. David K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: LE QUAN NINH Ustensilies Date: 05 Nov 1998 17:10:47 -0500 David Keffer wrote: > > Hello Folks on the Zorn-list, > > Over the years, there has been numerous mentions > of Le Quan Ninh's "Ustensilies" on the list, > including a recent mention with regard to successful > percussion with a relatively simple set of instruments. > Well, I finally decided to check it out and ordered it > from Forced Exposure. Forced Exposure is out of stock > on "Ustensilies". Is "Ustensilies" still in print? Yes, it is. The U.S. distributor for "For 4 Ears" is North Country (basically the distrubutor of all European free improv). -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Don Byrd <dbyrd1@nycap.rr.com> Subject: JZ's favorite writing Date: 06 Nov 1998 20:09:48 -0500 Caleb Deupree: >Date: Thu, 05 Nov 1998 21:16:18 -0500 >I was listening to FW4 this week, and perusing the liner notes, where JZ >raves about two books by Jalal Toufic named DISTRACTED and VAMPIRES. >Anyone read these? Are they worth tracking down? I have read DISTRACTED. and it is an worth finding. It may still be available from the publisher, Station Hill Press, Station Hill Road, Barrtown, NY 12507... Don Byrd - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Re: guitar music Date: 06 Nov 1998 20:14:13 -0500 At 06:36 PM 11/1/98 -0800, Christian Heslop wrote: >I'm looking for some modern classical guitar music(wrap your mind around >that nomenclatural sin)-specifically for a recording of some Leo Brouwer >etudes that I've been studying.I'm also interested in guitarists working in >other idioms etc.Any recommendations? I received a notice from the Electronic Music Foundation today which advertises the following new release on Bridge which may be of interest. No Brouwer listed here, but some excellent composers none the less. More info probably available at their web site at http://www.CDeMUSIC.org. David Starobin, described by Soundboard Magazine as "arguably the most influential American classical guitarist of the 20th century," plays 18 dances for solo guitar, all of them composed for him by Elliott Carter, Milton Babbitt, Poul Ruders, Jonathan Harvey, Paul Lansky, and others. We'd go further than Soundboard: Starobin is THE best guitarist for contemporary music. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers -- Pablo Picasso - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Deadly Weapons/Cynical Hysterie Hour Date: 07 Nov 1998 00:22:18 -0500 (EST) Someone just mentioned buying Deadly Weapons, was that the used copy or is it still available? I'd like to hear this one, if someone wants to make a copy I could trade something for it. Also, I just got Cynical Hysterie Hour, and I was a little disappointed - I thought the overall impression was that people liked this one but it reminds me of Cobra, interesting but missing something w/o the visuals. Also, I have Frank Zappa's _Civilization Phaze 3_ for sale/trade if anyone's interested. It's Synclavier and dialogue - I'm sure its good but I just can't get into the Synclavier... WY - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TiggerT000@aol.com Subject: play music Date: 07 Nov 1998 09:51:15 EST hi all, anyone in northern NJ or vicinity care to actually PLAY some of the music we are all talking about??? contact me. barry - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale <jhale@sympatico.ca> Subject: Great New Recording Date: 07 Nov 1998 11:54:34 -0500 Hope this doesn't come off like a plug (since these guys are all from my hometown), but I think many people on the list would really enjoy a new recording by a group based in Toronto and led by drummer Jean Martin. The band has the same lineup as Tiny Bell Trio, with Kevin Turcotte on trumpet and Justin Haynes on guitar, and they have the same wide-open approach to music. Unlike TBT, the Martin Trio focuses on some great tunes from Oklahoma and a little-known Dr. Seuss film called The 5,000 Fingers of Dr. T. They also do some Weill/Brecht pieces. I saw them twice this week on a tour that will take them to 45 dates across Canada, including a number that are close to anyone in the Seattle/Vancouver area, and just finished reviewing their new disk. From my perspective (and I say this as someone who really loves Dave Douglas' work) Kevin Turcotte is one of the best players around. It's too bad that he's not better known outside Canada. The CD is called Get Together Weather, released on Unity/Page. Not sure who distributes it outside Canada, but I imagine you can get it through the usual online channels if you're interested. James Hale - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "m. rizzi" <rizzi@netcom.com> Subject: Re: how long? Date: 07 Nov 1998 11:34:54 -0800 (PST) >i guess i've been on the zorn list for about a year now. my question is how >long has the list actually been in existance. thanks It was born on Dec. 9th, 1994. Originally created by Matt from UNH. I took over the list in Sept. of 1996 when Matt graduated and lost email access. Unfortunately, I don't know Matt's last name or how to contact him. cheers, mike rizzi -- rizzi@netcom.com -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com "Another nerd with a soulpatch" -------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 ------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alankin <lankina@worldnet.att.net> Subject: William Parker's _In Order To Survive_ in Philadelphia 11/22/98 Date: 07 Nov 1998 20:33:19 -0500 Sweetnighter Productions [dedicated to bringing cutting edge jazz to Philadelphia] presents: William Parker's "In Order To Survive" celebrating the release of their new CD. William Parker (bass) Rob Brown (alto) Cooper-Moore (piano) Susie Ibarra (drums) Sunday, November 22, 1998 - 4 pm Unitarian Church, Chestnut Street Between 21st & 22nd, Philadelphia PA For Sweetnighter info call Alan K. (215.665.1170) or Craig (215.925.3150) or email aek1@erols.com http://home.att.net/~lankina/sweetnighter -- Alankin lankina@worldnet.att.net http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alankin <lankina@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Uri Caine performing Mahler/Primal Light in Philadelphia 12/6/98 Date: 07 Nov 1998 20:44:29 -0500 Sweetnighter Productions, dedicated to bringing cutting edge jazz to Philadelphia, presents Uri Caine playing the music of Gustav Mahler as performed on his Winter&Winter recording "Primal Light." "Urlicht/Primal Light" The Music of Gustav Mahler Uri Caine (piano) Mark Feldman (violin) Ralph Alessi (trumpet) DJ Olive (electronics) Drew Gress (bass) Cornell Rochester (drums) Sunday, December 6, 1998 - 4 pm Unitarian Church, Chestnut Street Between 21st & 22nd, Philadelphia "a panorama that moves from wretched tragedy to beatific bliss in the heartbeat of a measure... Caine takes more chances than a high roller nd scores more often." -- Philadelphia Inquirer (11/1/98) For Sweetnighter info call Alan K. (215.665.1170) or Craig (215.925.3150) or email aek1@erols.com http://home.att.net/~lankina/sweetnighter -- Alankin lankina@worldnet.att.net http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen drury <stevedrury@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Re: John Zorn at the Barbican, London, 29th October 1998 Date: 07 Nov 1998 22:04:57 -0500 At 11:03 AM 11/6/98 -0700, Christopher Walker wrote: >The sound quality for JZ was also vastly better than for Terry Riley on the >Friday, fortunately. > If I remember correctly, we did most if not all of the Barbican show accoustically, which may explain why. Certainly "Carny" was without amplification. Thanks for the kind words, by the way. -- steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vlad-Drac@webtv.net (Theo Klaase) Subject: Another Micro-soft ad Date: 08 Nov 1998 11:09:15 -0600 (CST) I just saw the new Micro-soft ad and it features the music from Zorn's Filmworks VI CD, track 4 called "End Titles." I'm sure you all remember that facinating Ribot guitar solo. Watch for it! }Theodorus-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vlad-Drac@webtv.net (Theo Klaase) Subject: Another Micro-soft ad Date: 08 Nov 1998 11:09:15 -0600 (CST) I just saw the new Micro-soft ad and it features the music from Zorn's Filmworks VI CD, track 4 called "End Titles." I'm sure you all remember that facinating Ribot guitar solo. Watch for it! }Theodorus-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com (Martin Wisckol) Subject: Great Jewish Music: Tom Waits ... plus Hanrahan Date: 08 Nov 1998 20:22:25 -0800 Caught Tom Waits' 10-year-old concert film Big Time on TV last night (damn his settlement with Doritos or whatever it was that has freed him from the financial need to perform -- I'd seen him or four times, each remarkable and unique, including back-to-back shows with largely the same songs, but done incredibly different, including a version of "Berma Shave" with the protagonists transformed into Elvis and Marilyn... and then seeing him perform again in this film, man! a shame he's off the stage, apparently for good). Anyway, I'd forgotten about the version of "Rain Dogs" on this gig -- turns into a full klezmer riot, complete with Waits hoofing it up. And this was 1988. Pre-downtown revival, if I'm correct. But some of the names are familiar -- Marc Ribot, Greg Cohen, Ralph Carney. Don't know Michael Blair (drums) or Willie Schwarz (kybds including some swangin accordian).... The Kip thread has sent me into the archives as well. So much cooking stuff. The revisit to "All Roads...." was particularly pleasurable -- somehow the first go-round, I missed a bunch of what seems so clear now. Has anybody mentioned "Coup de Tete" -- I think this was his first one (1981) -- at least it was my introduction. Rich, rich. cast includes Fier, Arto, Laswell, Jamaladeen, Chico Freeman, Jerry Gonzalez, Dom Um Romao, Carlos Ward, Fred Frith, Bern Nix, a legion of percussionists, and an appearance by Carla Bley (singing and playing piano) on a cut.... "A Thousand Nights and One Night" -- the first song, lyrically, is so seductive but it's really a struggle to try to understand the rest, which has led to my initial disappointment. Some good playing, though. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marc Downing <mpdownin@fes.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: Great New Recording Date: 09 Nov 1998 09:00:29 -0400 >Hope this doesn't come off like a plug (since these guys are all from my >hometown), but I think many people on the list would really enjoy a new >recording by a group based in Toronto and led by drummer Jean Martin. >The band has the same lineup as Tiny Bell Trio, with Kevin Turcotte on >trumpet and Justin Haynes on guitar, and they have the same wide-open >approach to music. I also think Justin Haynes' CD's are very beautiful. Jean and Justin are part of a group of young Toronto musicians that are doing some amazing work. My favourite Toronto group is Andrew Downing's Attention Span. This music has no pretensions, no capacity for overinflation. The first CD, Campfiresongs, is one of the most honest recordings I've heard. Thus will I second your plug and further recommend: Justin Haynes: Show Justin Haynes: Not Drowning ... Waving Andrew Downing's Attention Span: Campfiresongs I'm pretty sure all three are on Unity/Page. >I saw them twice this week on a tour that will take them to 45 dates >across Canada, including a number that are close to anyone in the >Seattle/Vancouver area, and just finished reviewing their new disk. Where can I get a copy of your review? A fellow Toronto-area fan with obvious bias, Marc Downing - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mary Ho" <shrekk@hotmail.com> Subject: tonic schedule Date: 09 Nov 1998 09:55:46 PST could someone forward me the schedule of performances for Tonic. Thanks ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "hijk" <hijk@gateway.net> Subject: Masada in flight Date: 09 Nov 1998 14:20:00 -0500 A friend of mine flew to chicago this weekend and was on the same flight as Zorn, Joey and Dave. He says they had a blast playing pass the headphones. Joey was sitting with a "Japanese Businessman" that wound up attending the gig later. JK hijk@gateway.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Daren S Williams <Daren_Williams@uk.ibm.com> Subject: Re: John Zorn at the Barbican, London, 29th October 1998 Date: 09 Nov 1998 19:34:17 +0000 > Christopher Walker wrote: > That seems to settle it. We were in M44 & M43, I believe. Sorry about= 'FWIW' > (it just means 'for what it's worth'). Nice to think I had a listmemb= er for > a neighbour. What a small eworld it is! I didn't go to the other American Pioneer n= ights as it's a bit tricky when you don't live in London. But Zorn was certainly worth the effort - I'd been wai= ting for years. I would have really liked to see John Adams, Philip Glass & Steve Riech - I know less of Terry R= iley's work despite him being their musical grandady. How was Jarvis Cocker? Daren Williams PS: Sorry about my lack of netiquette. = - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Felix" <jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt> Subject: Re: Great Jewish Music: Tom Waits Date: 09 Nov 1998 22:04:04 +0100 >Caught Tom Waits' 10-year-old concert film Big Time on TV last night >(damn his settlement with Doritos or whatever it was that has freed him >from the financial need to perform -- I'd seen him or four times, each >remarkable and unique, including back-to-back shows with largely the >same songs, but done incredibly different, including a version of >"Berma Shave" with the protagonists transformed into Elvis and >Marilyn... and then seeing him perform again in this film, man! a shame >he's off the stage, apparently for good). > >Anyway, I'd forgotten about the version of "Rain Dogs" on this gig -- >turns into a full klezmer riot, complete with Waits hoofing it up. And >this was 1988. Pre-downtown revival, if I'm correct. But some of the >names are familiar -- Marc Ribot, Greg Cohen, Ralph Carney. Don't know >Michael Blair (drums) or Willie Schwarz (kybds including some swangin >accordian).... All I have by Waits is the "Nighthawks at the diner" live CD. I find it quite good. Really good and funny stories, but I wonder. How is his other stuff compared to this live recording. Any "out-there" recordings? Felix jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Felix" <jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt> Subject: Kristallnacht Date: 09 Nov 1998 22:16:02 +0100 Tonight it will be 60 years since the holocaust began. The night of broken glass alone caused over a hundred dead, hundreds of destroyed sinagogues, and thousands of jewish shops ransaqued. About 10000 jews were arrested that night. This happened all across Germany. Please don't let it be fogotten. :( Felix jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: OnionPalac@aol.com Subject: Zorn's performances Date: 09 Nov 1998 19:34:20 EST Does anyone know of any source(s) that will give me dates and places for John Zorn's performances. Help is much appreciated, thank you. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christian Heslop" <xian@mbay.net> Subject: Re: Great Jewish Music: Tom Waits Date: 09 Nov 1998 16:46:47 -0800 > All I have by Waits is the "Nighthawks at the diner" live CD. I find it > quite good. Really good and funny stories, but I wonder. How is his other > stuff compared to this live recording. Any "out-there" recordings? > > Felix To many it may not seem that the music of Tom Waits is particularly "out there". While I don't believe this to be a prerequisite for good music I would argue that there are many things about Tom Waits' music that can be considered experimental. He has many recordings which break the rules of the idiom that some might say that he worked in. Albums like "Bone Machine" and "The Black Rider" both demonstrate how he manages to fuse so seamlessly new sounds into old styles. His songwriting is IMHAIO virtually unparalleled. He evokes a world that is completely his own and casts a very flattering and revealing light on an Americana that lives under and among us (but is admittedly disappearing). He may owe a lot to people like Kurt Weill and Bertolt Brecht (The Threepenny Opera obviously) but it seems to be more of a relation than a material debt. Tom Waits is a storyteller more than anything, and a very great one. It's very hard to recommend a particular album. Every one is worth buying and they vary considerably in style. It's hard to predict what about a musician will make them accessible to new listeners. Try "Rain Dogs" and if you like Kurt Weill then try "The Black Rider". "Small Change" has a few absolutely unforgettable tracks on it (Tom Traubert's Blues and Invitation To The Blues among them). Please don't attack this too harshly because I have never really thought too hard on why I like Tom Waits. BTW-IMHAIO=In My Humble And Ignorant Opinion - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: kunijetm@i-2000.com (Kuni & Naomi) Subject: please visit my site Date: 10 Nov 1998 03:21:54 -0500 (EST) I'm Kuni. Please visit my site. The address is http://www.i2.i-2000.com/~kunijetm It's a new idea for the core of modern culture. It can change the way people feel. Sincerely, 92 (Kuni) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be> Subject: Shea & Ribot Date: 10 Nov 1998 10:01:56 +0100 Belgian Zornies Attention: Belgian National Radio is broadcasting some incredible musical moments: * On Saturday, nov 14th : The David Shea concert at the Vooruit Geluid festival, last year: On the program: * Satyricon (solo sampler version) * Tex (Tex Avery Hommage, piano/sampler) * Electric Chamber Symphony Nr.1 (world premiere , Ictus ensemble) (Radio 3, De Toonzaal , 20.00h) * On Monday , nov 16th: Marc Ribot Special, possibly some live-Cubanos Postisos-stuff. (Radio 1, Cucamonga, 21.00h) YVes - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "hijk" <hijk@gateway.net> Subject: Chihuly over Venice Date: 10 Nov 1998 08:29:01 -0500 Did anyone in the NYC area happen to catch "Chihuly over Venice" on PBS last night? I was not familiar with him or his work and sorta stumbled onto the show. For those of you who don't know him, he's a glass blower from Tacoma. He made a series of Chandeliers from hundreds of pieces of blown glass and hung them over the canals of Venice, among other worldly places. Anyway, all the music was composed by Wayne Horvitz and there was at least one Masada string trio piece. If it pops up again (as I'm sure it will) I strongly recommend it. He has a website: www.chihuly.com Jeff Kent hijk@gateway.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Martens <ericmartens@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Great Jewish Music: Tom Waits Date: 10 Nov 1998 05:44:23 -0800 (PST) ---Christian Heslop <xian@mbay.net> wrote: > > > All I have by Waits is the "Nighthawks at the >diner" live CD. I find it quite good. Really good and funny stories, but I wonder. How is his other stuff compared to this live recording. Any "out-there" recordings? > > > > Felix > > It's very hard to recommend a particular album. Every one is worth buying and they vary considerably in style. It's hard to predict what about a musician will make them accessible to new listeners. Try "Rain Dogs" and if you like Kurt Weill then try "The Black Rider". "Small Change" has a few absolutely unforgettable tracks on it (Tom Traubert's Blues and Invitation To The Blues among them). > Another good place to start, IMHO, wd. be the recently released "Beautiful Maladies" best of comp -- admittedly I'm still pretty new to Waits, but that's basically where I started _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Kowalski <BKowalski@genetics.com> Subject: waits ... motain on w&w Date: 10 Nov 1998 08:51:41 -0500 "All I have by Waits is the "Nighthawks at the diner" live CD. I find it quite good. Really good and funny stories, but I wonder. How is his other stuff compared to this live recording. Any "out-there" recordings? " Felix - go now to your local shop, run to the W's, find Wait's section and pick up one copy each of his albums. While the Rain Dogs / Swordfishtrombones/Franks Wild Years trilogy, w/ Ribot, Cohen ...et al along for ride, is right on top of the heap, The Black Rider is my personal fave of the "post trilogy" releases and Heart Attack & Vine a fave of the earlier discs...and don't forget to stop by soundtrack section and pick up Night on Earth and, what the heck, One from the Heart as well (maybe the later once you are enjoying all the others and need another fix!) --------- on another note, my own question for zornsters everywhere - there are two Paul Motain releases one Winter & Winter and I'm wondering how folks like them / compare them to previous outings... happy listening Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cbarrett@neaq.org (Chris Barrett) Subject: Re: Great Jewish Music: Tom Waits Date: 10 Nov 1998 09:13:24 -0500 >All I have by Waits is the "Nighthawks at the diner" live CD. I find it >quite good. Really good and funny stories, but I wonder. How is his other >stuff compared to this live recording. Any "out-there" recordings? > >Felix >jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt Many people find his watershed album to be "Swordfishtrombones". This is the first one where he really gets into the idea of the junk orchestra. His songs, especially his lyrics, I find pretty brilliant. But then, starting with this record, he puts these crazy arrangements in, where random metal is clanked, weird slinky doublebass lines show up, odd discordant guitar appear, and sleazy horn parts randomly punctuate areas. Sometimes a single military snare is the only percussion present, other times it's just junk. All sorts of harmoniums and wierd pump organs and old, often half broken, instruments show up. The textures are fantastic. Keep in mind that this album came out in 1983, so it was a bit different than what was the recording rage of the eighties (drums with no DMX sounds, or wierd, eletronic sound reverbs and gates? No way!) Ralph Carney, Marc Ribot and Greg Cohen were staples of Tom's band in this period (the albums "Swordfishtrombones", "Rain Dogs", "Frank's Wild Years", and the live album documenting the concert video mentioned "Big Time"). Many people consider to be a masterpiece. Incidentaly, Greg Cohen was the music director for the band on the Big Time tour. I don't have 1993's "The Black Rider" (though I hear good things about it), but 1992's "Bone Machine" is an amazing album as well. Supposedly, he has just signed a one record deal with the indie punk label Epitaph and is due for his first new release since 1993 next year. I also have "Small Change" and "Blue Valentines", both of which I think are excellent records, but the songwriting and arrangements are much more straight forward. (In addition to the tunes mentioned on the list from "Small Change", "Step Right up" has some very clever wordplay and "The Piano Has Been Drinking (Not Me)" is a fantastic barfly/tin pan alley tune that Tom is the modern master of.) -Chris - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: David Weinstein's 'Perfume' Date: 05 Nov 1998 16:24:32 -0500 Any comments on this release? Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com (Martin Wisckol) Subject: tom Waits recommendation Date: 10 Nov 1998 10:20:38 -0800 "Rain Dogs" was a break-thru album, IMHO. And is an apex of his inspiration. He was working in that direction with his previous, "Swordfish Trombones,'' moving away from equal temperment (used Harry Partch's marimba), moving away from the obvious sources -- and Swordfish has some great songs on it as well. But with Rain Dogs, it all came together. Then came Bone Machine, which was further refining some of the same concepts. I'm not near my collection, but I think his career can be broken down into five stylistic stages. 1: Folkie ("Closing Time," which included Ole '55, made a hit by the Eagles). 2. Beatnik jazz ("Nighthawks," "Small Change," "Foreign Affairs"). 3. Gritty R&B ("Blue Valentine," "Heart Attack &Vine"). 4. The more experimental period mentioned above. 5. whatever it is he's doing now. It's been 5 years since he released "Black Rider" (based on a musical influenced sytlistically by Kurt Wiell). With no recordings and virtually no performances, we can only guess. A new album coming soon, reportedly. Among my top recommendations would be Rain Dogs, Small Change, Blue Valentine, Nighthawks .... "Closing Time" is the only one I don't get too much out of. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Re: waits ... motain on w&w Date: 10 Nov 1998 12:39:41 -0600 The Trio recording "The Sound Of Love" is taken from the same Villiage Vanguard recordings that produced "You Took The Words Right Out Of My Heart" (I'm pretty sure). In any case it's great. If you like the trio, you'll like this one also. As for the Electric Bebop band one.... I dunno. Dan Hewins >on another note, my own question for zornsters everywhere - there are >two Paul Motain releases one Winter & Winter and I'm wondering how >folks like them / compare them to previous outings... > >happy listening >Bob > >- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Re: Chihuly over Venice Date: 10 Nov 1998 12:45:03 -0600 More off topic: I saw an exhibition of his here in St. Louis and it was great. Definitely check it out if you can. Dan Hewins At 8:29 AM -0500 6/7/19, hijk wrote: >Did anyone in the NYC area happen to catch "Chihuly over Venice" on PBS last >night? I was not familiar with him or his work and sorta stumbled onto the >show. For those of you who don't know him, he's a glass blower from Tacoma. >He made a series of Chandeliers from hundreds of pieces of blown glass and >hung them over the canals of Venice, among other worldly places. Anyway, >all the music was composed by Wayne Horvitz and there was at least one >Masada string trio piece. If it pops up again (as I'm sure it will) I >strongly recommend it. > >He has a website: www.chihuly.com > >Jeff Kent >hijk@gateway.net > > > >- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Allen Gittelson <Allen.Gittelson@efi.com> Subject: November 8, 1998 San Francisco Masada show Date: 10 Nov 1998 10:48:15 -0800 Greetings, I can't believe the list is not (yet) flooded with praise of Sunday night's performance of Masada and also John Schott's group's performance. I don't have the time or energy at the moment to pour into an epic review, but let me just say that this was one of the finest performances of live music that I've had the honor of being present to absorb. Venue (a Jewish synagogue), sound, performance, audience, and nearly everything else were quite ideal from my perspective. I do not keep track of the charts that exist or that were played, but they were outstanding. I think it took a few (2 or 3) pieces for the person(s) running sound to figure out how to deal with the bass (and one slight sound problem with what sounded like bass adjustment in the first or second piece). After that, it sounded great. A touching performance. I brought a friend who had never heard this music previously and he told me after the 2nd (or was it third) piece that he nearly cried (because of the deeply touching sounds heard in the music). Me too, wow. My friend even asked me how he could send a message that could reach Zorn just as a thank you for performing such great sounds. I knew some folks on the list are surely capable of this but thinking we wouldn't want to trouble anyone, suggested that he forward an email expressing his gratitude to Tzadik. Joey Baron was particularly amazing (as he always is in my opinion). Douglas and Zorn playing together and separately were outstanding with the beautiful and deeply touching phrasing and textures that they created. Greg Cohen was also no small wonder on bass and provided wonderful sounds too. What can I say. No single performer of the group stole the show, they all contributed quite well to the sound of Masada and the sounds of a night that I will treasure. The mixture of jazz and Jewish music was fantastic. It was as if these musics had always been combined. Neither part of the music was over emphasized. Masada played one piece as an encore, because Dave Douglas had to catch a flight to Bombay, India (where Zorn stated with one of the few words he spoke at the performance that "the funky boy [was] going to get dysentery.") The notated music seems to be (as is Zorn's modus operandi) very small. At one point (for the encore I think). I saw him flipping through what was probably their over 200 charts which took an incredibly small amount of space on a music stand that Zorn and Douglas shared. It was also funny as for the 3rd or 4th piece that was to be played was picked by Zorn, he was about to launch (or have the band launch) into it and Joey and Greg were sort of signaling to Zorn ("Hey...you gonna tell us what piece we're gonna play?"). Very funny. OK, attire fans should be aware that John even wears camouflage pants to synagogue (talk about rift's on tradition). These were of a color that I don't think I've seen him wear before (but I could be wrong). Also, he's still got the long hair. I think I heard one listener remark before the show that perhaps the length of Zorn's hair has something to do with the frequency range in which he is playing or some such odd thing. I hadn't any idea what to expect from Schott's group before the performance other than some sort of relation to "Jewish music" (discuss amongst yourselves on that one). Their sounds were quite nice as well, but I would not say that they were of the caliber of what I heard from Masada. This is of course arguable (what isn't). Different music than Masada, but very good. I recommend hearing it as well. Debate what I have stated here if you like. It's my opinion and I stand firm. This was great music. Your in music, Allen - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marc Downing <mpdownin@fes.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: Chihuly over Venice Date: 10 Nov 1998 14:14:32 -0400 >Did anyone in the NYC area happen to catch "Chihuly over Venice" on PBS last >night? I was not familiar with him or his work and sorta stumbled onto the >show. For those of you who don't know him, he's a glass blower from Tacoma. >He made a series of Chandeliers from hundreds of pieces of blown glass and >hung them over the canals of Venice, among other worldly places. Anyway, >all the music was composed by Wayne Horvitz and there was at least one >Masada string trio piece. If it pops up again (as I'm sure it will) I >strongly recommend it. > >He has a website: www.chihuly.com > >Jeff Kent >hijk@gateway.net I was in Venice when his chandeliers were installed there. They're really beautiful. They're similar in spirit to what I think some of us love about Masada. They're an ancient traditional form seen through a new lens, and as such they don't come across as being something totally original. They don't eat their parents. They instill a sense of wonder. Marc - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" <sunny70@sirius.com> Subject: RE: November 8, 1998 San Francisco Masada show Date: 10 Nov 1998 12:10:52 -0800 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Allen Gittelson > Sent: Tuesday, November 10, 1998 10:48 AM > I can't believe the list is not (yet) flooded with praise of > Sunday night's > performance of Masada and also John Schott's group's performance. Just couldn't find the words. =) Certainly the best concert I'd seen all year, if not one of the best in a long, long time. All four performers were spectacular: Douglas in particular kept coaxing out these gorgeous phrases in his solos. I had never been inside a synagogue before, and the combination of everything (music and place) was awe-inspiring, honestly. > OK, attire fans should be aware that John even wears camouflage pants to > synagogue (talk about rift's on tradition). These were of a color that I > don't think I've seen him wear before (but I could be wrong). The color seemed slightly different from the camo pants he wore to the concert at Slim's a few months back, but he was certainly wearing the same (maybe not exactly the same) red T-shirt. [on the John Schott Group]: > of course arguable (what isn't). Different music than Masada, but very > good. I recommend hearing it as well. One hopes Tzadik will record and release it. They played what seemed like a long, extended piece (although punctuated by audience applause) for accordion, trombone, guitar, vocals and drums. All of them were reading from sheets, but at times it looked as if Schott was improvising (particularly during a Bailey-like guitar-popping solo). (Clueless newbie question here: anyone understand what those finger signals were?) > Debate what I have stated here if you like. It's my opinion and I stand > firm. This was great music. No debate. I just feel particularly lucky to have seen Zorn twice this year. (Now if only those Masada discs start going down in price...) Later, Ben np: new and used, "consensus" http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "m. rizzi" <rizzi@netcom.com> Subject: Re: November 8, 1998 San Francisco Masada show Date: 10 Nov 1998 16:50:12 -0800 (PST) Benito Vergara, demi-God and Icon sez: > >[on the John Schott Group]: >> of course arguable (what isn't). Different music than Masada, but very >> good. I recommend hearing it as well. > >One hopes Tzadik will record and release it. Did y'all really like that Schott piece? Overall, I didn't like it. Seemed very under rehearsed and not very fluid. There some very fine moments, Jewlia's singing was fabulous, as was Scott's drumming. And I liked Tom Yoder trombone solo and the sweet accordian riffs that reminded me of Astor Piazzola. But Schott's guitar was an annoying distraction, coming off rather wanky to my wanky tolerant ears. :) And the spoken word text just wasn't compelling. I almost hate to say it, but the piece would have been much better without the guitar. mike the naysayer -- rizzi@netcom.com -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com "Another nerd with a soulpatch" -------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 ------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: waits/weill Date: 09 Nov 1998 21:18:44 -0500 I would have to agree with all you recommending Rain Dogs. It's an absolutely incredible album as far as I'm concerned. What does Marc Ribot play on aside from Swordfishtrombones, Rain Dogs and Frank's Wild Years??? I'd also be curious to hear what you all recommend as your favorite Kurt Weill! -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ma Meeshka Mow" <skwoz@hotmail.com> Subject: Fwd: trade Date: 11 Nov 1998 13:18:36 CET >From: "Martin Vognsen" <hejven@hotmail.com> >Hi guys, > > >Please mail this to the Zorn list: >Hi! >I'm looking for releases by a label from Berlin called Trippen. I'm >interested in any releases, but particularly releases by K÷nig >(releases: '42', '43', '44' and others) and Kafka (ANY releases!) >If you have any unique items (with scratches etc) let me know! Also >I need help to identify an untitled item in my collection. It is very >black and the level is pretty high. >Thanks >Martin Please answer to ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ma Meeshka Mow" <skwoz@hotmail.com> Subject: Fwd: trade Date: 11 Nov 1998 13:47:28 CET >From: "Martin Vognsen" <hejven@hotmail.com> >Hi guys, > > >Please mail this to the Zorn list: >Hi! >I'm looking for releases by a label from Berlin called Trippen. I'm >interested in any releases, but particularly releases by K÷nig >(releases: '42', '43', '44' and others) and Kafka (ANY releases!) >If you have any unique items (with scratches etc) let me know! Also >I need help to identify an untitled item in my collection. It is very >black and the level is pretty high. >Thanks >Martin Please answer to "hejven@hotmail.com" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Artur Nowak" <arno@silesia.top.pl> Subject: Fw: Superkapele Date: 11 Nov 1998 13:20:11 +0100 I just got a mail saying, that Masada String Quartet (hmm... quartet?) and "regular" Masada will perform in Poland soon. Does anybody from you know anything about it? Does Zorn plan to have european tour in the near future? __________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak [arno@silesia.top.DEATHTOSPAMMERS.pl] www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/default.htm - Discography of Bill Frisell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ma Meeshka Mow" <skwoz@hotmail.com> Subject: Fwd: trade Date: 11 Nov 1998 13:50:07 CET >From: "Martin Vognsen" <hejven@hotmail.com> >Hi guys, > > >Please mail this to the Zorn list: >Hi! >I'm looking for releases by a label from Berlin called Trippen. I'm >interested in any releases, but particularly releases by K÷nig >(releases: '42', '43', '44' and others) and Kafka (ANY releases!) >If you have any unique items (with scratches etc) let me know! Also >I need help to identify an untitled item in my collection. It is very >black and the level is pretty high. >Thanks >Martin Please answer to "hejven@hotmail.com" ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" <sunny70@sirius.com> Subject: RE: Great Jewish Music: Tom Waits Date: 11 Nov 1998 10:05:46 -0800 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Felix > Sent: Monday, November 09, 1998 1:04 PM > > All I have by Waits is the "Nighthawks at the diner" live CD. I find it > quite good. Really good and funny stories, but I wonder. How is his other > stuff compared to this live recording. Any "out-there" recordings? IMHO Waits is one of those Great American Songwriters, but one completely underrated. (Maybe this new deal with Epitaph includes a concert tour, but I really doubt it.) For "out-there" recordings, it's already been answered: the albums from "swordfishtrombones" on fit into that category, though it's not as "out there" as most listees are probably more used to. "Bone Machine" is my personal favorite from that "out-there" period -- strange percussion instruments, vocals sung through megaphones, lyrics about death and decay, etc. However, focusing on his latter period will deprive you of his earlier "Nighthawks"-style albums -- stuff to be listened to with the lights down low, late at night. A great mix of beatnik-style poetry, rnb, lounge jazz and torch song. Aside from the songs about lost love and the healing power of drink, there's always that unerring bit of lyrical detail that makes his songs stand out -- take those lines from "Putnam County," off Nighthawks at the Diner: "and you weave home, weavin' home / leaving the little joint winking in the / dark warm narcotic American night." My favorite album from that period is "Blue Valentine," with possibly the most emotionally stirring version of "Somewhere" ever recorded (although the first time I heard it I thought it was a complete joke). Waits gets mentioned on this list so often. It's really time for that Zorn-Waits collaboration, don't you folks think? Later, Ben np: bernhard gunter, "un peu de neige salie" (the cd's driving me crazy as I write this) http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Great Jewish Music: Tom Waits Date: 11 Nov 1998 10:20:14 -0800 On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 10:05:46 -0800 "Benito Vergara" wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Felix > > Sent: Monday, November 09, 1998 1:04 PM > > > > All I have by Waits is the "Nighthawks at the diner" live CD. I find it > > quite good. Really good and funny stories, but I wonder. How is his other > > stuff compared to this live recording. Any "out-there" recordings? > > IMHO Waits is one of those Great American Songwriters, but one completely > underrated. (Maybe this new deal with Epitaph includes a concert tour, but I ^^^^^^^^^^ Is a Spice Girls fame what you consider not being "underrated"? Tom Waits is not the kind of artist I think about when "underrated" comes to my mind. > np: bernhard gunter, "un peu de neige salie" (the cd's driving me crazy as I > write this) Good! it means that you have been successfull hearing something out of it :-). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rusty Crump <rusty@steno.com> Subject: Re: Nov. 8th SF Show Date: 11 Nov 1998 10:35:13 -0800 Various and sundry about the show: I agree with Mike that the John Schott piece seemed underrehearsed -- though I didn't have any problems with Schott's guitar. For me, it served its purpose well, as an appetite-whetter for Masada. Allen Gittelson mentioned Zorn's announcement that Dave Douglas was going to Bombay. My recollection is that Zorn said, "That lucky boy is going to get dysentery," not "that funky boy." Near the end, I heard Zorn (from my vantage point in row 3) call for "Hobah," and I involuntarily blurted out, "Oh, God," because that's by far my favorite Masada piece. Then he started shuffling through the music and called for something else. Bummer. When they came out for the encore, I called out, "Hobah," (but not too loudly -- I was in a temple, after all), but once again was moderately disappointed. But not really. I saw Masada play on my birthday. What could be better? The funny thing is that I saw Masada two years ago in Memphis, the day after my birthday, so this tradition of Masada concerts for birthday presents is started to grow. The whole trip to the city was fantastic, not the least part of which was spontaneously combusting my plastic to the tune of about 20 cds at Amoeba Music in Berkeley. Rusty Crump Redding, CA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cerato Marco <g5003725@uts.univ.trieste.it> Subject: Vado, uccido e torno. Date: 11 Nov 1998 14:45:40 +0100 Ciao membroni della lista!! Un saluto anche al capo supremus maximus mega straficus etc. etc. e chi piu' ne ha piu' ne metta, uno due tre, fante cavallo e re, non esiste piu' la mezza stagione.....Manzu'. Penso che ora andro' a uccidere la ragazza che non me l'ha data l'altra sera! W IL DIO FETISH!! Cips - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Caulfield Bivins <jbivins@indiana.edu> Subject: Orlando, FL Date: 11 Nov 1998 14:43:56 -0500 (EST) Hi folks, I have a grim feeling that I know the answer to this question already, but here goes: is there anything to do musically in Orlando? I have to be there for a conference next weekend and I'm looking to escape the Mouse and all his ways. Venues? Records shops? Sam Rivers? Thanks for any help. Jason Bivins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rusty Crump <rusty@steno.com> Subject: One more thing... Date: 11 Nov 1998 12:19:29 -0800 I just wanted to mention one final impression of the Sunday night Masada hoedown. When I saw the band on 11/9/96, it seemed as though a handful of angels and demons had gotten underneath Joey Baron's skin, taking turns possessing him and making him do amazing things. Sunday night, it seemed to me that they'd gotten ahold of Greg Cohen. SOMETHING had him in its grip. I'm glad I was there. Rusty Crump Redding, CA House of Steno, Inc. Commercial Printing & Publishing . . . where you're more than just a customer - you're a friend 1701 California Street * Redding, California 96001 530/241/6051 * 800/479/6062 www.steno.com Made with Macintosh!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: Vado, uccido e torno. Date: 11 Nov 1998 14:53:00 -0500 >Un saluto anche al capo supremus maximus mega straficus etc. etc. >e chi piu' ne ha piu' ne metta, uno due tre, fante cavallo e re, non >esiste piu' la mezza stagione.....Manzu'. >Penso che ora andro' a uccidere la ragazza che non me l'ha data >l'altra sera! >W IL DIO FETISH!! Hmmm...Al Capone's anchor salad is a huge Traffic fan, etc. Some smelly cheese, not laughing cheese we haven't met, 1-2-3, re: orange soda in caves, not my smelly sister, that middling horse in the human zoo. Pens in the android's mouth accidentally rags my non-laughing cheese data with other serum! I will die a fetish!! >Cips Hey, Cips, thanks for the note! ;-) B. PS. (Now that Cips has me thinking about it) Any Pino Minafra or Carlo Actis Dato fans out there? I understand Minafra has a new release out somewhere. His 'Sudori' on Victo has some marvelous work. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: Vado, uccido e torno. Date: 11 Nov 1998 15:30:47 -0500 (EST) nOn Wed, 11 Nov 1998 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > >Un saluto anche al capo supremus maximus mega straficus etc. etc. > >e chi piu' ne ha piu' ne metta, uno due tre, fante cavallo e re, non > >esiste piu' la mezza stagione.....Manzu'. > >Penso che ora andro' a uccidere la ragazza che non me l'ha data > >l'altra sera! > > >W IL DIO FETISH!! > > Hmmm...Al Capone's anchor salad is a huge Traffic fan, etc. Some > smelly cheese, not laughing cheese we haven't met, 1-2-3, re: orange > soda in caves, not my smelly sister, that middling horse in the human > zoo. Pens in the android's mouth accidentally rags my non-laughing > cheese data with other serum! > > I will die a fetish!! thank god someone on this list can translate swahili! b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "GASK" <gask@findo.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: Some zorn/laswell cds for sale/trade Date: 11 Nov 1998 21:44:28 -0800 I would prefer to trade, but you can mail me for a price on anything. I will trade more than one of the below for anything from my wants list (mail me for that). JOHN ZORN related: the golden palominos - S/T 1st album feat. Zorn, laswell etc various - live at the knitting factory vol.3 - zorn on 2 tracks w. slan naked city - 1st album various - bandes originales du journal de spirou (2cd, zorn on 2 tracks) god is my co-pilot - speed yr trip the sonny clark memorial quartet - voodoo various - state of the union (2cd, many artists with 1-minute tracks) vaguely related to zorn: bobby previte's empty suits - slay the suitors (avant) medeski, martin & wood - friday afternoon in the universe ken butler - voices of anxious objects (tzadik) greg cohen - way low (DIW) BILL LASWELL related: massacre - killing time (original cd issue) abiodun oyewole - 25 years (black arc) bill laswell - hear no evil yamashita/laswell/sakamoto - asian games pharaoh sanders - message from home (laswell-produced) material - mantra (CD single) material - reality (CD single) last exit - koln chaos face - doom ride (subharmonic) Also, many more alternative/experimental cds/vinyl FS, mail me for a list. gask@findo.freeserve.co.uk - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Vado, uccido e torno. Date: 11 Nov 1998 17:16:08 -0500 (EST) I haven't heard of anything new by Pino. I trust you already have his discs with the Italian Istabile Orchestra (one of which is on ECM of all places) and his trio session with Reijeser and Bennik on Leo. I'd welcome others. As for Carlo just heard a track of his on a community radio jazz show this morning callewd "Baghdad Blues," but I'm not sure whether it's new or old. Get his solo CD on Leo if you don't alreadyt have it. And while I'm offering up recommendations that no one really asked for, other Italians to be investigated include Mario Schiano, Gianni Gebbia and his excellent group Terra Arsa. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Wed, 11 Nov 1998 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > > > PS. (Now that Cips has me thinking about it) Any Pino Minafra or Carlo > Actis Dato fans out there? I understand Minafra has a new release out > somewhere. His 'Sudori' on Victo has some marvelous work. > > > > > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> Subject: Re: Vado, uccido e torno. Date: 11 Nov 1998 19:27:58 -0500 Ken Waxman wrote: > > I haven't heard of anything new by Pino. My copy of the current WIRE has disappeared under mysterious circumstances (I suspect an overly zealous wife on a cleaning binge) so I may be misremembering, but I think there was something on a festival Minafra ran in Sicily where there was mention of a new release, but check me on it. > I trust you already have his discs with the Italian Instabile Orchestra > (one of which is on ECM of all places) and his trio session with > Reijeser and Bennik on Leo. I'd welcome others. Haven't heard the Leo; how is it, what's it like etc? > > As for Carlo just heard a track of his on a community radio jazz show this > morning callewd "Baghdad Blues," but I'm not sure whether > it's new or old. Get his solo CD on Leo if you don't alreadyt have it. "Baghdad Blues" is from the fine quartet record of the same name on Splasc(h), a wonderful date that, as a capsule description, I think of as an Italian variant on classic Breuker. Similarly with 'Ankara Twist' on the same label. Have never gotten ahold of 'Urartu', the solo one on Leo though; been meaning to. > > And while I'm offering up recommendations that no one really asked for, > other Italians to be investigated include Mario Schiano, Gianni Gebbia > and his excellent group Terra Arsa. I was off and on about the Schiano record on Victo--is this representative? Also, please recommend some specific Gebbia releases; another guy I've been trying to get around to hearing. Thanks, Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: odds and ends Date: 10 Nov 1998 19:29:43 -0500 Can anyone recommend the solo Rick Bishop album? I'm a Sun City Girls fan but I'm a little skeptical of this one for some reason... Speaking of the Sun City Girls... Has anyone noticed how similar "Lies Up The Niger" from '330,003 Crossdressers From Beyond The Rig Veda' is to the second track of 'Wild Ducks & Golden Elephants' (Burmese music) on Shanachie? What is the most crucial Napalm Death on CD? Interesting fact for the day: In the Tenbian district of the Tigre Province of Ethiopia, the people are known for making music by cupping a hand under their armpit and squeezing the air out, producing the same farting sound that brings Western children so much joy. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Weinstein - Perfume/ Waits/ Browbeat Date: 11 Nov 1998 22:31:47 -0500 (EST) > Subject: David Weinstein's 'Perfume' > > Any comments on this release? > > Brian Olewnick Its all performed on sampler as you may know, and he uses the sounds to build up virtual orchestras, only the sounds are a little off. Some just intonation including one simulated piano piece that kind of starts off normal then derails into just intonation and then back, a lot of horror movie sounding stuff, and one or two which sort of had beats (it was decently played at the radio station and I think some people must have liked those). Don't know what to say as far as recommending it, because I still get a little queasy with some just intoned stuff, but its certainly worth hearing. Nice cover and liner notes too. P.S. I read in an interview that Zorn had wanted to do a Harry Partch/hobo tribute w/ Tom Waits, but I guess nothing ever came of this (?) This interview was from the late 80s or early 90s I think. P.P.S. I'm a little late catching on but I just got Browbeat #2, which is great. Is there going to be a #3? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sulacco@aol.com Subject: Re: odds and ends Date: 11 Nov 1998 22:41:04 EST In a message dated 11/11/98 19:53:53, you wrote: >What is the most crucial Napalm Death on CD? _from enslavement to obliteration/scum_ two albums on one cd. how can u go wrong? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Last Exit 'From the Board' Date: 11 Nov 1998 23:12:34 -0500 (EST) I've been looking for someone who might have this cheap, since its been cut on Celluloid and sometimes places get these (like w/ _Yankees_). I looked at Wayside and some other places, but no luck. Just wondering if anyone had seen this, if not I'll have to shell out full price. Also if you haven't looked at this you owe it to yourself (I'm not affiliated...) > > I'm Kuni. > Please visit my site. > The address is > http://www.i2.i-2000.com/~kunijetm > It's a new idea for the core of modern culture. > It can change the way people feel. > > Sincerely, > > 92 (Kuni) > > > - - > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Tue, 10 Nov 1998 10:01:56 +0100 > From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be> > Subject: Shea & Ribot > > Belgian Zornies Attention: > > Belgian National Radio is broadcasting some incredible > musical moments: > > * On Saturday, nov 14th : The David Shea concert at the Vooruit > Geluid festival, last year: > On the program: * Satyricon (solo sampler version) > * Tex (Tex Avery Hommage, piano/sampler) > * Electric Chamber Symphony Nr.1 > (world premiere , Ictus ensemble) > (Radio 3, De Toonzaal , 20.00h) > > * On Monday , nov 16th: Marc Ribot Special, possibly > some live-Cubanos Postisos-stuff. > (Radio 1, Cucamonga, 21.00h) > > > > YVes > > > - - > > ------------------------------ > > Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2098 08:29:01 -0500 > From: "hijk" <hijk@gateway.net> > Subject: Chihuly over Venice > > Did anyone in the NYC area happen to catch "Chihuly over Venice" on PBS last > night? I was not familiar with him or his work and sorta stumbled onto the > show. For those of you who don't know him, he's a glass blower from Tacoma. > He made a series of Chandeliers from hundreds of pieces of blown glass and > hung them over the canals of Venice, among other worldly places. Anyway, > all the music was composed by Wayne Horvitz and there was at least one > Masada string trio piece. If it pops up again (as I'm sure it will) I > strongly recommend it. > > He has a website: www.chihuly.com > > Jeff Kent > hijk@gateway.net > > > > - - > > ------------------------------ > > End of Zorn List Digest V2 #522 > ******************************* > > > To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to > "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" > with > "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" > in the body of the message. > > For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send > "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. > > A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to > subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" > in the commands above with "zorn-list". > > Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in > pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. > > Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Vado, uccido e torno. Date: 11 Nov 1998 23:56:48 EST In a message dated 11/11/98 7:38:06 PM, olewnik@IDT.NET wrote: <> I saw the show that this CD was recorded at. my impression at the time was that Schiano was almost more of a figurehead and inspiration than a typical leader. he spurred on Evan Parker, Barry Guy and Paul Lovens and they all did some really interesting things, but I'm not sure how much Schiano himself has left in terms of chops. <<Also, please recommend some specific Gebbia releases; another guy I've been trying to get around to hearing.>> The recent solo record on Rastascan is pretty enjoyable; that's the only one of his I've heard. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Given <dlgiven@julian.uwo.ca> Subject: Minafra, Actis Dato, and other fun Italian music Date: 12 Nov 1998 00:03:42 -0500 > Brian Olewnick and Ken Waxman discussed: >> >> I haven't heard of anything new by Pino. > >> I trust you already have his discs with the Italian Instabile Orchestra > (one of which is on ECM of all places) and his trio session with > Reijeser and Bennik on Leo. I'd welcome others. There are two earlier Minafra discs on Splasc[h]. Colors (SPlasch 108) is a quintet, I like it a lot. More of a 'jazz' record than Sudori, but definitely has that wacky Italian feel. Antonello Salis (piano) and VIncenzo Mazzone (drums) are the only names I recognize on it. The other one is Minafra with the December Jazz trio. I can't remember who they are, and it is stuck away on my hard to access, don't listen to them, shelf. Pretty plain, bad sound. Hey Ken, did you see Minafra Sud Ensemble in that god awful tent during the TO jazz fest about 3 years ago? Great show, blows away the Sudori disc. It was the same day as the Medeski Martin Wood show, which to me seemed kind of juvenile. Kind of a look at the cool things I can do, I can bow my bass, I have some little percussion instruments, I don't have a lot of substance, but I'm learing some gimmicks. Then come the Italians, to whom gimmickry is a way of live, and it was phenomenal. Live, they may be the heirs to what the Kollektief once was, and hopefully can still be on a good day. >> As for Carlo just heard a track of his on a community radio jazz show this >> morning callewd "Baghdad Blues," but I'm not sure whether >> it's new or old. Get his solo CD on Leo if you don't alreadyt have it. > >"Baghdad Blues" is from the fine quartet record of the same name on >Splasc(h), a wonderful date that, as a capsule description, I think of >as an Italian variant on classic Breuker. Similarly with 'Ankara Twist' >on the same label. Have never gotten ahold of 'Urartu', the solo one on >Leo though; been meaning to. There's also Blue Cairo by the same band. I see a comparison between this band and Masada; there's that middle eastern sound, with a bit of a move north. There's also a good Actis Dato on Pentaflowers called Tree with Laura Culver on cello and Alex Rolle on percussion. Carlos sticks to bass clarinet. I guess there are others, and duets with Culver, but I haven't heard them. Tree is a bit more serious than the quartet music. I think last time I listened to it, it made a good companion piece for a Denis Colin Trio album. >> And while I'm offering up recommendations that no one really asked for, >> other Italians to be investigated include Mario Schiano, Gianni Gebbia >> and his excellent group Terra Arsa. > >I was off and on about the Schiano record on Victo--is this >representative? Haven't heard that one, but I have a handful of the Splasch ones. I keep buying them, hoping they live up to the potential of their personell. Parker, Guy, Reijseger, Leandre, Moye, Schlippenbach, Lovens, Rutherford... the list goes on and on, but they are, generally, boring as hell. I don't know how he could assemble the bands he does, and suck all the life out of the performances. I think I have finally given up, after about 7 or 8, and will resist the temptation from now on. >Also, please recommend some specific Gebbia releases; >another guy I've been trying to get around to hearing. H Portraits. Recent solo on Rastascan. Great music, crappy packaging though. Body Limits. Older solo on Splasch. Really short tunes, fragments of ideas almost, but phenomenal ideas and technique. Capuccini King. Trio on Splasch with Kowald and Sommer. I highly recommend all three. Other great Italian music: Giancarlo Schiaffini has two really good quintet discs on Pentaflowers. One a tribute to Monk, one to Bird. They sure ain't bebop though. They come from the same spiritual direction, as far as tributes go, as does George Lewis's Homage to Charles Parker. (Which, just in case anyone on the list doesn't own it, should be owned by all.) Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Napalm Death [was Re: odds and ends] Date: 12 Nov 1998 02:31:54 -0500 Sulacco@aol.com wrote: > >What is the most crucial Napalm Death on CD? > > _from enslavement to obliteration/scum_ > > two albums on one cd. how can u go wrong? Definitely true if you are looking for the early blurt stuff, presumably the stuff that first attracted Zorn. "From Enslavement to Obliteration" is especially important - it's the first of the band's two "definitive" lineups: Lee Dorrian, Bill Steer, Shane Embury (the only still-current Napalm) and Mick Harris. But of the later ND discs (i.e., after the entire original membership was gone), I still listen to "Utopia Banished" quite a lot. A great album, though not at all groundbreaking like the earliest stuff. If you're coming from a standard metal background, via the likes of Metallica and Slayer, then "Utopia" is possibly your best way in, a few steps beyond Slayer, ridiculously hard'n'fast. (Pardon me while I go find my copy...) Still, the one thing about Napalm Death that still baffles me a bit is that although there is not one single founding member remaining in the group, despite a relatively short lifespan, fans seem to still treat the current Napalm Death lineup (in place since "Utopia" circa 1992) as the real band. Could you imagine anyone accepting a Masada with four completely different players, even if the changes were relatively incremental as were those of Napalm Death (one new player on this album, two new players on that album, and suddenly no original members left)? I mean, the *original* Napalm Death lineup was Justin Broadrick, Nik Bullen and Mick Harris. And they didn't even complete one album... they recorded about half of "Scum" only. Interestingly, around the time that Napalm Death released "Utopia Banished," the three original members reunited long enough to record the Scorn album "Vae Solis." Anybody know of any other band that sets a precedent for this phenomenon? Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Napalm Death - "Utopia Banished" (I wasn't kidding...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: naked city question Date: 12 Nov 1998 18:37:24 +1100 I was just listening to a live recording from Chicago, and one piece is introduced as something like "Tyla" by Reiner Rye, a group from Algeria. I don't know what the spelling's meant to be, or anything about the original, can anyone tell me? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Napalm Death [was Re: odds and ends] Date: 12 Nov 1998 18:39:45 +1100 > Anybody know of any other band that sets a precedent for this > phenomenon? Guns N Roses? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cd <cappyd@uvic.ca> Subject: No original members (and no Zorn content) [was Re: Napalm Death] [was Re: odds and ends] Date: 12 Nov 1998 00:21:46 -0800 Steve Smith wrote: > I mean, the *original* Napalm Death lineup was Justin Broadrick, Nik > Bullen and Mick Harris. And they didn't even complete one album... > they recorded about half of "Scum" only. Interestingly, around the time > that Napalm Death released "Utopia Banished," the three original members > reunited long enough to record the Scorn album "Vae Solis." > > Anybody know of any other band that sets a precedent for this > phenomenon? Quiet Riot after Kevin DuBrow was replaced by Paul Sortino. (I'm almost embarrassed that I know this, so I'll note that I was 12 years old when it happened...) I also doubt that the Duke Ellington or Count Basie bands have any original members (please correct me if I'm wrong). -cd NP: "Metal Health" (just kidding) Actually NP: Tim Berne/Bloodcount's "Saturation Point" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Pino Minafra Date: 12 Nov 1998 10:59:45 GMT0BST Is this the rappin' trumpeter from the Gianluigi Trovesi Octet? Regardless, I can recommend From G To G (on Soul Note) by Trovesi. Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J.T. de Boer" <J.T.de.Boer@let.rug.nl> Subject: Re: Napalm Death [was Re: odds and ends] Date: 12 Nov 1998 12:22:43 +0200 What to think of Death? There's not a single album (at least to my knowledge) that's recorded with the same line-up. It's always Chuck Chuldiner plus a completely new band. I admit this doesn't totally correspond with the Napalm Death example, but maybe this can be a nice discussion: Does the music suffer when there is a certain concept, but always interpreted differently because the interpreters rotate? I.m.o. in the case of Death, every album gets better. I'm not familiar enough with the repetroire of Napalm Death to have an opinion on their oeuvre. Any thoughts on this? > Still, the one thing about Napalm Death that still baffles me a bit is > that although there is not one single founding member remaining in the > group, despite a relatively short lifespan, fans seem to still treat the > current Napalm Death lineup (in place since "Utopia" circa 1992) as the > real band. Could you imagine anyone accepting a Masada with four > completely different players, even if the changes were relatively > incremental as were those of Napalm Death (one new player on this album, > two new players on that album, and suddenly no original members left)? Jeroen - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Hollo <raven@fourplay.com.au> Subject: Re: Great Jewish Music: Tom Waits Date: 13 Nov 1998 00:24:32 +1100 Erm, well, re: the subject... and all this talk... Tom Waits isn't actually Jewish is he? I mean, if he is, hey cool! but I wouldn't have expected it. Peter. -- Peter Hollo raven@fourplay.com.au http://www.fourplay.com.au/me.html FourPlay - Eclectic Electric String Quartet http://www.fourplay.com.au "Of course, dance music can be a music where you lie on your back and your brain cells dance" -Michael Karoli of Can, quoted in Wire mag. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Weil <weilj@ecn.purdue.edu> Subject: Re: Napalm Death [was Re: odds and ends] Date: 12 Nov 1998 09:58:43 -0500 (EST) Steve, I don`t want to sound too much of a nag. But the original line-up I don`t think had Mick harris in it. There was a demo called Hatred Surge that is pretty typically punk and I think Justin Broadrick plays drums and "Rat" or something to that effect was on Guitar. From my understanding, the band had an original line up that did not record, then another line-up that recorded a demo and then another line-up that recorded part of Scum. If you heard the demo and then heard Scum you could make a good argument that the changing cast had an effect on the music. But with a band of kids that age, I might also think that the line -up could have been the same and these guys go see Whitehouse in concert after recording their demo and realize that there are more extreme forms of music that their young ears have not heard and they react to that as well. Just a thought. jw - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Tors <jtors@organic.com> Subject: Who is Kurt Weill? Date: 12 Nov 1998 10:21:20 -0500 I have heard his name come up in many situations. Can I get a little background on this fellow? Album requests?? thanks, JT - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Napalm Death [was Re: odds and ends] Date: 12 Nov 1998 09:48:26 -0600 (CST) On Thu, 12 Nov 1998, Steve Smith wrote: > I mean, the *original* Napalm Death lineup was Justin Broadrick, Nik > Bullen and Mick Harris. And they didn't even complete one album... > they recorded about half of "Scum" only. Interestingly, around the time > that Napalm Death released "Utopia Banished," the three original members > reunited long enough to record the Scorn album "Vae Solis." > > Anybody know of any other band that sets a precedent for this > phenomenon? Menudo, of course. I believe several Motown acts completely replaced their members over time. One mightr stretch the point by considering Jefferson Airplane->Starship to be one continuing band. On the new music front, there were several disjunct MEVs, I believe. There are a great number of precedents for bands replacing everybody but the one member who owns the name (I understand that this happens a lot with oldies and supposed reunions). Similarly, there are situations where everyone but the name-owner get together, and you have a reformation of the band under a different name (such as Anderson Bruford Wakeman Howe). And then there's Monty Cantsin... - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cbarrett@neaq.org (Chris Barrett) Subject: Re: No original members (and no Zorn content) [was Re: Napalm Death] [was Re: Date: 12 Nov 1998 11:03:09 -0500 >Quiet Riot after Kevin DuBrow was replaced by Paul Sortino. (I'm almost >embarrassed that I know this, so I'll note that I was 12 years old when >it happened...) Don't be. It makes me feel better to know that many other people have embarrassingly useless information about music in their heads too (Quick! name all the original Asia members...now name the current ones.....scary scary scary) -C (god, that's even more embarrassing than I had intended. I have to say that I do not own any current Asia albums, just for the record -- but I do have the first one from when I was 12) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Spangler <STVASPNG@Otterbein.edu> Subject: Re: Who is Kurt Weill? Date: 12 Nov 1998 11:30:35 -0500 --------------887D22899319AFA1B4601BFB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Weill is the composer who worked with Berthold Brecht on The Threepenny Opera, etc. The song "Mack the Knife" is one of their compositions. If you're interested in an overview, there's a various artists sampler--I think on Elektra Nonesuch--called Lost in the Stars, the Music of Kurt Weill. It's actually a really nice record; Zorn plays on it, I think Tom Waits, the Fowler Brothers, Sting, and Lou Reed--his track just about sums up his career. I think Diamonda Galas is also on the record (I can't remember). I always see the record in bargain bins for $2.00 or so, and it's well worth it. There's also a movie based on the Threepenny Opera called Mack the Knife. It stars Roger Daltrey, and Raul Julia. It's O.K. but not a crucial piece of work. ----Steve---- Jason Tors wrote: > I have heard his name come up in many situations. Can I get a little > background on this fellow? Album requests?? > > thanks, > > JT > > - --------------887D22899319AFA1B4601BFB Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML> Weill is the composer who worked with Berthold Brecht on The Threepenny Opera, etc. The song "Mack the Knife" is one of their compositions. If you're interested in an overview, there's a various artists sampler--I think on Elektra Nonesuch--called Lost in the Stars, the Music of Kurt Weill. It's actually a really nice record; Zorn plays on it, I think Tom Waits, the Fowler Brothers, Sting, and Lou Reed--his track just about sums up his career. I think Diamonda Galas is also on the record (I can't remember). I always see the record in bargain bins for $2.00 or so, and it's well worth it. There's also a movie based on the Threepenny Opera called Mack the Knife. It stars Roger Daltrey, and Raul Julia. It's O.K. but not a crucial piece of work. ----Steve---- Jason Tors wrote: <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>I have heard his name come up in many situations. Can I get a little background on this fellow? Album requests?? thanks, JT -</BLOCKQUOTE> </HTML> --------------887D22899319AFA1B4601BFB-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" <sunny70@sirius.com> Subject: [still no Zorn content] RE: Great Jewish Music: Tom Waits Date: 12 Nov 1998 09:12:11 -0800 > -----Original Message----- > From: Patrice L. Roussel [mailto:proussel@ichips.intel.com] > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 10:20 AM > Is a Spice Girls fame what you consider not being "underrated"? Well, no... but I'm all for artists getting more money. =) Seriously, though, I think Waits is still relatively obscure (but certainly not for us Zorn-listees, for which "obscure" means... well, I can't think of anything). Unappreciated by the mainstream public, maybe? > > np: bernhard gunter, "un peu de neige salie" (the cd's driving > me crazy as I > > write this) > > Good! it means that you have been successfull hearing something > out of it :-). There's certainly an element of -- wonder? puzzlement? what am I doing listening to this? -- to the album. What it's done is certainly to heighten my listening sensitivity; I'm beginning to detect patterns in the humming of my computer's disk drive, or with the refrigerator (that's the part that's driving me crazy). For those not familiar with Gunter's album (The Wire had picked it recently as one of those "100 records that set the world on fire while no one was listening"), it's all barely audible pops and buzzes. In any case the effect is somewhat disorienting -- even more "ambient" than "Thursday Afternoon?" -- and like Justin Bennett's "Cityscapes," the album encourages the listener to generally "listen" differently. Ok, enough with the OT blather... Later, Ben np: "kranky kompilation" http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: George Lewis; was Re: Minafra, Actis Dato, etc. Date: 12 Nov 1998 12:31:30 -0500 Dan wrote: >Other great Italian music: Giancarlo Schiaffini has two really good >quintet discs on Pentaflowers. One a tribute to Monk, one to Bird. They >sure ain't bebop though. They come from the same spiritual direction, as >far as tributes go, as does George Lewis's Homage to Charles Parker. >(Which, just in case anyone on the list doesn't own it, should be owned >by all.) Yes, and yes again!! Confirmed cargo on my trip to that desert island. If the Schiaffini is half as good as HTCP, it's well worth hearing. I keep waiting, probably in vain, for Lewis to re-explore that territory; when he wants to be, he's the most lyrical, soulful trombonist I've ever heard. I only know of one other piece of his that's very much in this vein: a trombone quartet called, as I recall, 'Atlantic' (Peter Zummo was one performer at the concert I saw in the early 80's; I forget the others) which featured contact mikes inside the mutes and generated a wonderful, sub-aquaeous sound. Don't think it's ever been recorded. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: [still no Zorn content] RE: Great Jewish Music: Tom Waits Date: 12 Nov 1998 09:52:52 -0800 On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:12:11 -0800 "Benito Vergara" wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Patrice L. Roussel [mailto:proussel@ichips.intel.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, November 11, 1998 10:20 AM > > > Is a Spice Girls fame what you consider not being "underrated"? > > Well, no... but I'm all for artists getting more money. =) Seriously, > though, I think Waits is still relatively obscure (but certainly not for us > Zorn-listees, for which "obscure" means... well, I can't think of anything). > Unappreciated by the mainstream public, maybe? Much less obscure than you believe, I think. I am always surprised at the number of people who know him. Based on the lack of direct appeal in his music, I think he has a fairly high fame/accessibility ratio (TM). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: [still no Zorn content] RE: Great Jewish Music: Tom Waits Date: 12 Nov 1998 10:00:13 -0800 On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:12:11 -0800 "Benito Vergara" wrote: > > There's certainly an element of -- wonder? puzzlement? what am I doing > listening to this? -- to the album. What it's done is certainly to heighten > my listening sensitivity; I'm beginning to detect patterns in the humming of > my computer's disk drive, or with the refrigerator (that's the part that's > driving me crazy). For those not familiar with Gunter's album (The Wire had > picked it recently as one of those "100 records that set the world on fire > while no one was listening"), it's all barely audible pops and buzzes. In > any case the effect is somewhat disorienting -- even more "ambient" than > "Thursday Afternoon?" -- and like Justin Bennett's "Cityscapes," the album > encourages the listener to generally "listen" differently. I saw him in concert and was kind of puzzled also. He apologized for just playing his records... And that was the whole show: us sitting in front of two speakers and him between them playing his records. For somebody like me who believes in the "sweat" factor attached to performance, that was kind of a let-down :-). The thing I am sure about him is that what he does is different. The thing I am not sure yet (but I tend to be slow), is if it is worth it. We are back to question one for audience of non-mainstream music: is the fact that something has never been done enough to make it worth hearing it? Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Egan <degan@excell.com> Subject: Re: [still no Zorn content] RE: Great Jewish Music: Tom Waits Date: 12 Nov 1998 10:07:26 -0800 "Patrice L. Roussel" wrote: > > On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 09:12:11 -0800 "Benito Vergara" wrote: > > > > There's certainly an element of -- wonder? puzzlement? what am I doing > > listening to this? -- to the album. What it's done is certainly to heighten > > my listening sensitivity; I'm beginning to detect patterns in the humming of > > my computer's disk drive, or with the refrigerator (that's the part that's > > driving me crazy). For those not familiar with Gunter's album (The Wire had > > picked it recently as one of those "100 records that set the world on fire > > while no one was listening"), it's all barely audible pops and buzzes. In > > any case the effect is somewhat disorienting -- even more "ambient" than > > "Thursday Afternoon?" -- and like Justin Bennett's "Cityscapes," the album > > encourages the listener to generally "listen" differently. > > I saw him in concert and was kind of puzzled also. He apologized for just > playing his records... And that was the whole show: us sitting in front of > two speakers and him between them playing his records. For somebody like me > who believes in the "sweat" factor attached to performance, that was kind > of a let-down :-). > > The thing I am sure about him is that what he does is different. The thing > I am not sure yet (but I tend to be slow), is if it is worth it. We are back > to question one for audience of non-mainstream music: is the fact that > something has never been done enough to make it worth hearing it? > > Patrice. > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Egan <degan@excell.com> Subject: Re: [still no Zorn content] RE: Great Jewish Music: Tom Waits Date: 12 Nov 1998 10:11:40 -0800 "Patrice L. Roussel" wrote: > The thing I am sure about him is that what he does is different. The thing > I am not sure yet (but I tend to be slow), is if it is worth it. We are back > to question one for audience of non-mainstream music: is the fact that > something has never been done enough to make it worth hearing it? Did you hear Tom Waits' track on "Stay Awake"? That's definitely worth hearing. I think I can confidently say that The Dwarves Marching Song has never been deconstructed to better effect. - Dave - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: [still no Zorn content] RE: Great Jewish Music: Tom Waits Date: 12 Nov 1998 10:21:43 -0800 On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 10:11:40 -0800 David Egan wrote: > > "Patrice L. Roussel" wrote: > > The thing I am sure about him is that what he does is different. The thing > > I am not sure yet (but I tend to be slow), is if it is worth it. We are back > > to question one for audience of non-mainstream music: is the fact that > > something has never been done enough to make it worth hearing it? > > Did you hear Tom Waits' track on "Stay Awake"? That's definitely worth > hearing. I think I can confidently say that The Dwarves Marching Song > has never been deconstructed to better effect. I was talking about Gunter, not Tom Waits. Tom has been around for a long time and it is easy to measure his impact and success. With Gunter, it is harder because he is (kind of) new on the music map, and it might take many years to evaluate the relevance of what he is doing. I am puzzled for the moment (but have been puzzled already by most of my favorite artists...). Anyway, I am curious to see where Gunter's music will go. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Rath <fripp@ibm.net> Subject: Re: Gunter - Re: [still no Zorn content] RE: Great Jewish Date: 12 Nov 1998 12:31:02 -0600 At 10:21 AM 11/12/98 -0800, you wrote: > >Anyway, I am curious to see where Gunter's music will go. > Just curious if anyone knows what all Gunter has available. I know of one on Table of the Elements (name escapes me at the moment), a track on the Merzbow tribute, and a track on a recent Dorobo compilation. The Dorobo one is probably the most interesting of them. Anything else I'm missing? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Gunter - Re: [still no Zorn content] RE: Great Jewish Music: Tom Waits Date: 12 Nov 1998 10:44:05 -0800 On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 12:31:02 -0600 Craig Rath wrote: > > At 10:21 AM 11/12/98 -0800, you wrote: > > > >Anyway, I am curious to see where Gunter's music will go. > > > > Just curious if anyone knows what all Gunter has available. I know of one > on Table of the Elements (name escapes me at the moment), a track on the It is the reissue of UN PEU DE NEIGE SALIE. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar Subject: Piazzolla Date: 12 Nov 1998 16:48:42 -0300 Hi Zornheads! From Terry Gilliam's film "Twelve Monkeys" I listened to for the first time Piazzolla's Suite de Punta del Este". Is there anybody out there who knows if Piazzolla's "Suite..." is available on any official CD? If not, what cd? Thanks in advance, Hugo. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christian Heslop" <xian@mbay.net> Subject: Re: Great Jewish Music: Tom Waits Date: 12 Nov 1998 11:50:45 -0800 That "Jewish Music" thing was simply an attached thread that we may have forgotten to clip.I don't remember anyone saying anything about Wait's and Jewishness. I have a JZ question. A long time ago I heard a friend's copy of "The Grand Guignol" and was instantly converted. When I started buying JZ albums I never bought that one because I had already heard it. Later when I decided that it was something I wanted to get, I had a lot of trouble finding it locally. Eventually I bought a computer and all these obstacles melted away. However when I was at the CDNow site shopping for it, "The Grand Guignol" was listed as only having the title track, the Scriabin, Ives, Messiaen etc. The typically Naked City tracks-starting from Blood is Thin- were listed on a separate album entitled "Black Box". So I bought neither. Later when I returned it was all listed under Grand Guignol. Is this just a CDNow mistake? > From: Peter Hollo <raven@fourplay.com.au> > To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: Great Jewish Music: Tom Waits > Date: Thursday, November 12, 1998 5:24 AM > > Erm, well, re: the subject... and all this talk... Tom Waits isn't > actually Jewish is he? I mean, if he is, hey cool! but I wouldn't have > expected it. > > Peter. > -- > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Gunter Date: 12 Nov 1998 15:00:10 EST In a message dated 11/12/98 1:46:24 PM, proussel@ichips.intel.com wrote: <<> Just curious if anyone knows what all Gunter has available. I know of one > on Table of the Elements (name escapes me at the moment), a track on the It is the reissue of UN PEU DE NEIGE SALIE. >> Gunter's other full length is Details Agrandis on Selektion, which Table Of The Elements also had plans to reissue at some point. for my money, Gunter's music is less rewarding than many other musicians in the same territory. for instance, Ralf Wehosky, Thomas Koner, some of Francisco Lopez' work. have you guys heard Robert Ashley's _Automatic Writing_? that's my favorite single record along these lines. I've probably played it 50 or 60 times since I first heard it a year or so ago. and RLW's 5 CD set _Tulpas_ is remarkable. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marks, Andy" <Andy.Marks@mts.com> Subject: RE: Melting obstacles Date: 12 Nov 1998 14:00:42 -0600 > I have a JZ question. A long time ago I heard a friend's copy of "The >Grand Guignol" and was instantly converted. When I started buying JZ albums > I never bought that one because I had already heard it. Later when I > decided that it was something I wanted to get, I had a lot of trouble > finding it locally. Eventually I bought a computer and all these obstacles > melted away. I have also experienced a similar "melting away" of obstacles since I became more Internet aware. Used to be I just had to go down to the local record shop and see if anything new had come in that I would be interested in (which by the way was SchoolKids Records in Ann Arbor, which is now no more). Now I am able to obtain items which I would previously never had a chance of obtaining unless a shop near me thought someone might actually buy it. Now, I know well ahead of time when a certain release is due and can get it when it comes out, instead of having to wait for someone else to find out about it and order it. I've been able to expose my to a huge amount of great music by ordering over the Internet than I would have otherwise. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Gunter Date: 12 Nov 1998 12:17:06 -0800 On Thu, 12 Nov 1998 15:00:10 EST JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > > for my money, Gunter's music is less rewarding than many other musicians in > the same territory. for instance, Ralf Wehosky, Thomas Koner, some of > Francisco Lopez' work. have you guys heard Robert Ashley's _Automatic ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You bet!!! One of my favorite American composers (although if I had to choose my top piece by him, that would be THE BAR (in the LP version...)). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Ashley; was Re[2]: Gunter Date: 12 Nov 1998 15:37:14 -0500 Patrice, re: Robert Ashley: >You bet!!! One of my favorite American composers (although if I had to choose >my top piece by him, that would be THE BAR (in the LP version...)). I might also recommend a Lovely Music LP with one of my favorite album titles, "Music Word Fire and I Would Do It Again (Coo-Coo)", which, as many of his things do, features a number of musicians from the LOLO axis. (Where IS Jill Kroesen nowadays?) Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Re: Gunter Date: 12 Nov 1998 20:19:41 -0500 At 03:00 PM 11/12/98 EST, JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 11/12/98 1:46:24 PM, proussel@ichips.intel.com wrote: > ><<> Just curious if anyone knows what all Gunter has available. I know of one >> on Table of the Elements (name escapes me at the moment), a track on the > >It is the reissue of UN PEU DE NEIGE SALIE. >>> > >Gunter's other full length is Details Agrandis on Selektion, which Table Of >The Elements also had plans to reissue at some point. > >for my money, Gunter's music is less rewarding than many other musicians in >the same territory. for instance, Ralf Wehosky, Thomas Koner, some of >Francisco Lopez' work. have you guys heard Robert Ashley's _Automatic >Writing_? that's my favorite single record along these lines. I've probably >played it 50 or 60 times since I first heard it a year or so ago. and RLW's 5 >CD set _Tulpas_ is remarkable. Gunter also has a collaboration with John Duncan called Home Unspeakable, based on Neither (Samuel Beckett's last work, also the source for the opera by Morton Feldman, although obviously very different treatments). He also has a 29-minute track on one of the Ash International 2-cd sets, which is followed by a Merzbow track. Boy! Talk about a shock. You crank up the volume and get lulled into very careful listening, then BAM! in comes Merzbow with his trademark squalls. I go back and forth on this stuff. Sometimes I think it's a waste of money, but I really do listen to things differently. Koner in particular -- I've got five Koner albums, and do you think I can tell the difference between them? I find something fascinating about music so minimal it hardly deserves to be called music. Second the recommendation for Tulpas, although I would not put it in the ultra-quiet category of Gunter. A wide variety of noise work, all fascinating, all difficult. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers -- Pablo Picasso - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Bramy <tbramy@oz.net> Subject: Re: No Original Members Date: 12 Nov 1998 22:41:26 -0800 The Accused. (Thanked on Torture Garden, you may recall.) Todd Bramy NP: Albert Ayler: Live In Greenwich Village, the Complete Impulse! Recordings - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FJG_Lamerikx <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> Subject: Re: Gunter Date: 13 Nov 1998 08:09:17 +0100 (MET) > >for my money, Gunter's music is less rewarding than many other musicians in > >the same territory. for instance, Ralf Wehosky, Thomas Koner, some of > >Francisco Lopez' work. have you guys heard Robert Ashley's _Automatic > >Writing_? that's my favorite single record along these lines. I've probably > >played it 50 or 60 times since I first heard it a year or so ago. and RLW's 5 > >CD set _Tulpas_ is remarkable. > Second the recommendation for Tulpas, although I would not put it in the > ultra-quiet category of Gunter. A wide variety of noise work, all > fascinating, all difficult. Guenter and Wehowsky have a 3x3" CD called "Un Ocean de Certitude" on the V2 label (*not* the Virgin shoot-off, but the Dutch label of experimental music). It holds a piece by both of the artists alone, and a collaboration piece. As far as Wehowsky is concerned, I really like his "14" CD on Table Of The Elements. Haven't heard anything of P16.D4, though (I always wondered why P16.D4 are in the credits list of Grand Guignol). Since we are on the terrain of the Selektion label now, I really recommend Runzelstirn & Gurgelstock "HO" on that label. Has nothing to do with either Guenter or Wehowsky, but since it is one of my all-time favorites I thought I'd mention it. Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leon lee <llee15@ccsf.cc.ca.us> Subject: [ba-improv] Agreed.-- LONG (fwd) Date: 12 Nov 1998 23:59:33 -0800 (PST) this forwarded from ba-improv (that's s.f. & bay area)... anyone care to comment? here's my two cents: schott's group sounded good -- some interesting tonal shifts, textures and colors but some pieces didn't sustain my interest as much as others engaged them tremendously. what about the break beat rock song? is that not something right up the S.F. -mainstream- Jazz Fest alley? It's easy to dismiss something as not-avant-enough but does this truly reinforce the idea of radical/experimental/avant-garde? Doesn't it sound ridiculous? "This is more radical than that" etc etc etc... Masada IS Masada; they play the Masada Song book. Masada is Zorn, Cohen, Douglas and Baron. Zorn's approach in klezmer is apparent, thus, 'Radical Jewish Culture' -- contemporary expositions of traditional forms. He's really not saying more than that. Who cares if he doesn't 'practice' his alto anymore. Does it hinder you from practicing yourself? To paraphrase Schoenberg (from somewhere): there is 'the same' on one end of the spectrum, 'the completely different' on the other. everywhere between are variations that reference without exacting and obscure within context. Sound familiar? Be well Leon Lee _______________________________________________________________________________ "life work in-progress" Students for Creative Music and Experimental Performance, treasurer Gamble everything for love if you're a true human being Jelaluddin Rumi ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Here here for the local folk! I would have to agree that Schott's group provided the much better listening experience over Zorn's. It certainly was the more "radical" of the two. Schott and everyone involved all sounded in top form. They deserve a good hard slap on the back. Now if they could only bring that temple with them wherever they played... Don't get me wrong--Masada is great--the players are great--the music is moving. But as a flagship project for Zorn's acceptance into the mainstream jazz world, it seems like there could be more work put into it. We know Zorn doesn't practice alto anymore (or at least he's said that he doesn't), so he's not pushing himself in his playing, but, okay, he's played for so long that he deserves a break, I guess. So then, I expect him to at least bust his ass composition-wise. But how many really different Masada songs are there? You can take a handful of songs from the first few albums, transpose the bass line and the melody and boom--another few albums, and another few albums...that's a lot of money we're paying for some guy who flashes through town now always only playing the big money shows, and bringing with him projects that he doesn't have to put much effort into. I think Cobra can be really neat, but you know he doesn't have to do shit to prepare for it. I don't think he even procures the players, but lets Willie round them up--and no comment on how cheated I feel when spending $15 on a Zorn/Patton thing that very, very little forethought has gone into. Anyhow, Zorn has opened up a lot of folks' eyes over the years (including mine) and he deserves a lot of credit for that. I just think he's gotten lazy 'cause people will pay for a Zorn show/disc just 'cause it has his name on it now. It'd be nice to see him push himself again, open up some eyes that he's already opened, and maybe play a few smaller shows when he comes to town every now and then. Otherwise, fuck it--next time Zorn's in town on a Sunday night, I'll be at Beanbenders. Jake Rodriguez - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com> Subject: Re: lots of little things from the last couple of weeks while Date: 12 Nov 1998 17:58:16 -0800 Anthony Coleman's nationality is New Yorker. Kaiser/Oswald Moose & Salmon on Music Gallery Editions makes up the 1978 part of the recently released CD the duo has on Incus. Jalal Toufic's books are interesting if you like post-modern auto-biographic/critical works they are sort of about films. I think there was some discussion of them on the list in the past. If you've already read them, you may be interested in Steve Shaviro's Doom Patrols available in print & online <http://www.dhalgren.com/>. Maybe cause I live in the same neighborhood I'm too close to see it, but I don't understand the fascination with Dale Chihuly. To me most of the work never gets past the pretty surfaces. But maybe that's just me. David Weinstein's Perfume is a solo CD by long time (now former) collaborator with Shelley Hirsch, responsible for lots of the accompanying music for many of her recorded projects. The disc is largely sample-based, though the source of the samples is rarely, if ever, the point. (Originally Weinstein's Avant project was going to be a sort of sound effects archive to be used in part for performances by Impossible Music, his collaborative band of musicians playing only CD players.) Some of the pieces on Perfume are related to Impossible Music's work, some of the pieces use unusual microtonal, sometimes just-intonation related tunings, long an interest of Weinstein's. I think it's a very good disc in a sort of contemplative vein. Not for zornlist folks who are only into the rocking and/or noise fest aspects of the scene. Kurt Weill composed both "classical" and "popular" music in the 1930s-1950s or so, frequent collaborator with Bertolt Brecht. Many of the more pop oriented pieces (Mack the Knife, December Song, etc) come from music theater pieces that were in the musical comedy tradition, though the comedy was darker than say Bye Bye Birdie. The Columbia Sony recordings of songs by Lotte Lenya are good, as are the Teresa Stratas disc that were on Nonesuch. There's a recent Marianne Faithfull I haven't heard. & (Zorn content ahead) Hal Willner did a compilation, Lost in the Stars, that had some good things on it. Of the more classical stuff, there's a much recorded suite from 3 Penny Opera that I'll try to find my copy of to recommend - most of the other classical pieces are not in print. Bests, Herb Herb Levy herb@eskimo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be> Subject: Re: lots of little things from the last couple of weeks while Date: 13 Nov 1998 11:15:53 +0100 >Kurt Weill composed both "classical" and "popular" music in the 1930s-1950s >or so, frequent collaborator with Bertolt Brecht. > ... >Hal Willner did a compilation, Lost in the Stars, that had >some good things on it. Of the more classical stuff, there's a much >recorded suite from 3 Penny Opera that I'll try to find my copy of to >recommend - most of the other classical pieces are not in print. Hall Willner did a second compilation of Kurt Weill Music in 1997: September songs : The Music of Kurt Weill (I think it was essentially the soundtrack for a film by Larry Weinstein). Wonderful performances by Elvis Costello, Lou Reed, Polly Harvey, Terese Stratas, Nick Cave and Charlie Haden playing on top of an old recording of Mr.Weill himself. As a bonus there's William Burroughs reading "What Keeps Mankind alive?",while Anthony Coleman provides some backing. The Ute Lemper discs of Weill Recordings are also very good. (she also made marvellous recordings of other German Cabaret composers of that era (Hollaender, Spoliansky, Schultze, Eisler,...)) And to end: there are some pretty good Weill recordings by Dagmar Krause (and she made also an Eisler album with arrangements by Greg Cohen) and there's the Young Gods play Kurt Weill songs (yes, this is the one with the Zorn sample). YVes - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Jake's criticism Date: 13 Nov 1998 11:24:20 GMT0BST I think Jake has a point about Masada, though for my own part, I like the players so much (particularly Dave and Joey) that I've been quite happy to go along with no illusions about what I'm getting. But it reminded me of a brief exchange on this list where someone puzzled me by saying there was more variation on the Masada albums than there was in Hank Mobley's output (I considered that false, tho' perhaps only just, and I was probably leaning heavily on Mobley's GREAT Octet album, A Slice Of The Top). The toruble is, the newest thing on the last Masada album was that long slow track that bored the pants off me! But I have a lot of John Coltrane Quartet, and I've never thought "is this going to be much different to the others?", prior to buying another. (BTW, has anyone heard the complete Impulse thing? What're the Disc 8 alternate takes like? Isd the Archie Shepp Love Supreme on it?) Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J.T. de Boer" <J.T.de.Boer@let.rug.nl> Subject: Re: Napalm Death Date: 13 Nov 1998 13:00:17 +0200 The best deathmetal album ever made is Death's "Human". Chuldiner gathered Cynic's Paul Masdival (guitar) and Sean Reinert (best metal drummer ever!!!!!!) and Sadus' Steve Digorgio (bass) around him and produced 35 minutes of the most mindblowing metal you've ever heard. This band combines pure agression with superb playing. Get this album if you're in for musical madness! Pestilence is nice (by the way, they're dutch!), but compared to Death over even Entombed not very special. > Haven't heard the latest album - any word on that? I do know that "Spiritual > Healing" is one of the finest moments of death metal (rivalled only by > Entombed's "Clandestine", and Pestilence's "Consuming Impulse"). Damnit, the > genre was named after the band! Jeroen - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Zorn on UK Radio 3! Date: 13 Nov 1998 14:03:03 GMT0BST Zorn's Barbican Concert will be broadcast on BBC Radio 3 next Friday (20th November) at 10.00 - 11.30 pm. Any out-of-UK listies who'd like a copy, make us a trading offer! (There'll be at least one direct from the radio copy available). Sean and Hywel. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Caulfield Bivins <jbivins@indiana.edu> Subject: George Lewis Date: 13 Nov 1998 10:36:28 -0500 (EST) Yes, a thousand times yes to HTCP. One of the greatest, and most often played discs, in my collection. I'm a big Lewis fan, as it happens, though some of his stuff leaves me a bit cold. Brian, you're right that he hasn't returned to the lyrical stuff on HTCP as much in recent years (at least not on his own recordings), but I assume you've heard "Jila/Save Mon!" from the same period? A few lovely duets with Douglas Ewart that, while not as great in impact as HTCP, are well worth hearing (and quite lovely). Parenthetically, it seems that while Lewis' output might have changed on one level, it's been remarkably consistent in its concerns. That is, I see most of his music as concerned with the nature of space in music: physical, musical, social, etc. He did a great job of exploring a musical environment -- both socio-historical and electro-acoustic -- on HTCP, and I can see the parallels on a work like Voyager or even Changing with the Times (a record I largely can't stand). Anyway, three cheers for Mr. Lewis. Jason Bivins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: George Lewis Date: 13 Nov 1998 11:06:03 -0500 Jason wrote: >Brian, you're right that he hasn't returned to the lyrical stuff on HTCP >as much in recent years (at least not on his own recordings), but I >assume you've heard "Jila/Save Mon!" from the same period? A few lovely >duets with Douglas Ewart that, while not as great in impact as HTCP, are >well worth hearing (and quite lovely). Yep, that and 'Chicago Slow Dance' from around the same time (on Lovely Music) are fine works, worth seeking out. Ewart's still active in Chicago, isn't he? Any recent releases? >Parenthetically, it seems that while Lewis' output might have changed on >one level, it's been remarkably consistent in its concerns. That is, I >see most of his music as concerned with the nature of space in music: >physical, musical, social, etc. He did a great job of exploring a musical >environment -- both socio-historical and electro-acoustic -- on HTCP, and >I can see the parallels on a work like Voyager or even Changing with the >Times (a record I largely can't stand). You're entirely right; I'd love to hear him just blow more often, though, even along the lines of News for Lulu. I was fortunate enough to catch him with Braxton several times in the late 70's and he was always stellar, often eliciting astonished doubletakes from AB and the rest of the band. In fact, one of my most cherished concert memories was a Braxton quintet date, one which I'd be curious to discover whether or not it was a one-shot affair. It was summer '76, I believe, at Stanley Crouch's wonderful Tin Palace on the Bowery in NYC. The line-up was Braxton, Lewis, Muhal, Fred Hopkins and Steve McCall. What an amazing band--and Lewis stole the show. While I'm fairly sure this group never recorded as such, does anyone know if they played elsewhere or toured? Don't suppose any tapes exist, hmmmm? Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net> Subject: Crispell discog info / No List content, just MUSIC Date: 13 Nov 1998 20:58:51 -0300 Hello all- Excuse the cross-post, but I need you experts from time to time: In 1992 the Marilyn Crispell Trio w/ Workman and Hemingway played at the following. Need details or contacts if anyone can help. Real Art Works, Hartford, CT Wesleyan University, Middletown, CT (tracks 4,6,7) Walker Arts Center, Minneapolis, MN ---Date of concerts for the above? -or a phone# or e-mail? Denver, CO ---Venue & Date of concert? -or a phone# or e-mail? Thanks, RL -- Marilyn Crispell, Susie Ibarra, Sam Rivers, Matthew Shipp, David S. Ware, and Reggie Workman discographies--Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things--Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL--etc., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k ***Very Various Music For Sale: ***http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Poisonhead@aol.com Subject: Tom Waits/John Zorn Date: 13 Nov 1998 21:08:11 EST As far as a Zorn/Waits collaboration I think as close as they will ever get would be the fact that they both have tracks on the Kurt Weill tribute "Lost in the stars". I was surprised not to see Zorn on the experimental musical instrument cd/book "orbitones, spoonharps, and bellowphones" and it's companion. Tom Waits track is great! Also to mention I just picked up Hasidic New Wave Psycho Semitic, what a great album! I would say if some one wanted to get familiar with the later Waits try "Big Time" it is excellent! Live versions of his later material. The new Waits is just getting better first Bone Machine and then the Black Rider. Wow! If anyone has a copy of Waits "Alice in wonderland" music that was for the next Robert Wilson production please contact me at...Poisonhead@aol.com. Andrew - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: laura nyro question Date: 14 Nov 1998 11:56:23 +0100 (MET) yes i know thats off topic again, hmm maybe not that much since she lived in new york and is at least half jewish. question: are there any written publications on her , that have a lot more to say than the usual stuff one can find in every rock-music encyclopedia? by the way: wouldnt she be a nice musician for one of the next great jewish music volumes..?? BJOERN - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sergio luque <sergioluque@usa.net> Subject: Is Masada coming to Mexico city? Date: 14 Nov 1998 17:11:22 -0600 There are rumors around here about a Masada concert on december. Any info? thanks sergio luque - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com> Subject: sad news Date: 14 Nov 1998 16:58:34 -0800 (PST) came across this recently and thought it might be of interest to some. i really enjoyed the Yoshizawa/Barre Phillips disc on PSF, and was hoping he might come out to the states at some point in the future. hasta. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- According to a posting on the MICC list, free jazz giant Motoharu Yoshizawa passed away a month and a half ago (9/13/98). His activities seem to have taken a backseat to those of his peers in the late 60s Japanese underground (notably Masayuki Takayanagi and Kaoru Abe), but from the available recorded testimony (thankfully magnified due to the fine efforts of PSF), his was a similarly massive talent. In particular, the duets with Mototeru Takagi from 10/69 are a fantastic introduction to early Yoshizawa and to the particular Japanese take on American free jazz (the disc are mostly long explorations of standards like Ornette's "Lonely Woman"). In the realm of the legends who continue to walk the earth, Bert Jansch is playing a show on 11/7/98 at the Threadwaxing Space in New York (w/ Bridget St. John, don't know if they're performing together). Not having kept up with his output very recently, does anybody know what he's been up to / what to expect? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phil <phil@clarksonp.demon.co.uk> Subject: Zorn on the radio (UK) Date: 15 Nov 1998 15:45:18 +0000 Just to let those of you who can pick up BBC Radio 3 from the UK know - on Friday 20th Radio 3 are broadcasting highlights from the recent Zorn chamber music gig in London. I think it's in the "Here & Now" slot in the evening. Get those C-90's ready! Phil Clarkson phil@clarksonp.demon.co.uk - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stefan Verstraeten <stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be> Subject: Collectors' corner (Tzadik Website) Date: 16 Nov 1998 11:26:03 +0100 Hi, Does anyone has a clue what happened with the collectors' corner on the tzadik website??? IMHO, the tzadik website seems nowadays like a T.T.M.A.R. - Website (take the money and run). No more zorn top 10, the artist info is most of the case outdated... What's happening???? Best wishes, Stefan Verstraeten NP Thurston Moore & Nels Cline - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Hollo <raven@fourplay.com.au> Subject: Sabbath in Paradise Date: 17 Nov 1998 00:05:56 +1100 Warning, LONG film review... Just went to see the film Sabbath in Paradise at the Sydney Jewish Film Festival. The film is about klezmer in modern settings and so on, and concentrated on the downtown New York scene, so lots of Zorn and Tzadik people! The place was filled with ignorant Jewish people most of whom thought they'd see unchallenging Jewish wedding music and straight klezmer I think, and were a bit taken-aback by what they got ;) The film is structured around a tale about a Rebbe who is on his way somewhere and is taken in by some strangers who turn out to be Moses, King David, King Solomon etc... and he hears wonderful music and so on. There are interviews (or spoken bits) with various relevant people: Anthony Coleman talks a lot, and there are some fascinating bits where he describes how his Selfhaters music comes out of more familiar Jewish contexts. Can't really describe it in words, but it was both amusing and informative... Marc Ribot talks in his slightly drug-fucked way about a lot of things. Because of his manner, most of the audience thought he was screamingly funny and I think the highly intelligent philosophising he was doing totally passed over their heads. Of the musicians related to "Radical Jewish Culture" Ribot has always seemed to me to have the most un-Jewish style of all, much closer to blues, country, thrash, whatever... and so hearing him talk about what it means to be making Jewish music was fantastic. His interviews at http://www.shamash.org/shmooze/jsps/index.html which we were drawn attention to before were along the same lines... David Krakauer said some interesting things, and demonstrated how his more ornate and style of playing comes out of traditional klezmer, and Frank London talked along similar lines. There were a couple of slightly more traditional klezmer musicians, whom I didn't quite know... Andy Statman on clarinet and occasional mandolin, an excellent musician but not particularly adventurous at all. He asked whether a Jewish tradition could exist separate from the Torah for very long, and suggested it couldn't historically. I disagree, but then I'm an atheist Jew ;) There were other dissenting voices. In fact, I'm interested whether Zorn and suchlike associates *are* practising Jews, reform or not, at all... From the film, I suspect Anthony Coleman at least isn't. Also, a fantastic accordian player who also played guitar at one point, and I'd be very grateful if someone could tell me who he was. Musically, there was quite a lot too. We saw Zorn rehearsing the Masada Quartet at the Knitting Factory and got to see just how much control he has over what goes on, directing Joey Baron as to what cymbals to hit when during certain passages and stuff... And we saw 2 or 3 pieces performed live at the Knitting Factory too. Large slabs of Selfhaters stuff, and one piece of Coleman's Sephardic Tinge trio... Various things by Krakauer, and various other things by Statman and whomever. The "soundtrack", intersperced occasionally, was snippets of stuff from the Masada String Trio disc of Circle Maker. Again it was interesting how the improvisations were slowly introduced, so that I imagine each of the pieces was constructed quite controlledly by Zorn with the group. Oh yes! Also, a shortish excerpt from a beautiful Cobra session, involving Marc Ribot for sure, and various others (can't remember or didn't know), quite quiet, with scraping and tinkling percussion by most of them and stuff... wonderful. Altogether an excellent movie. Filmed mostly on video I think, with some very clever editing in some bits and at other times perhaps excessively low-buget in feel, but who cares? Lots of excellent Jewish music, wonderful live performances, snippets of rehearsal, and commentary from the musicians (not including any direct-to-camera talking by Zorn, interestingly) - what more could one seriously ask for? It's on again on Saturday the 28th in Sydney... well worth seeing ;) Peter. np: Klezmer, NY - David Krakauer & Klezmer Madness! A wonderful CD, from the funky alt(dot)klezmer at the start and the lovely setting of Der Gasn Nigun at the end, to the stuff in between. Pity it's so short! The new Naftule's Dream CD is also excellent. -- Peter Hollo raven@fourplay.com.au http://www.fourplay.com.au/me.html FourPlay - Eclectic Electric String Quartet http://www.fourplay.com.au "Of course, dance music can be a music where you lie on your back and your brain cells dance" -Michael Karoli of Can, quoted in Wire mag. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Sabbath in Paradise Date: 17 Nov 1998 00:48:27 +1100 > Marc Ribot talks in his slightly drug-fucked way about a lot of things. > Because of his manner, most of the audience thought he was screamingly > funny and I think the highly intelligent philosophising he was doing > totally passed over their heads. I think the problem was that ALL of his playing made him out to be a punk rock guitarist, because I believe this footage probably came before his Bar Kokhba/Circle Maker work. > Also, a fantastic accordian player who also played guitar at one point, > and I'd be very grateful if someone could tell me who he was. That's Michael Alpert from David Krakauer's Trio (isn't he on the cd you mentioned at the end of your mail?) and I believe he is also in the Klezmatics. The first piece he sang with accordian is on David Krakauer's "Klezmer Madness!", it is The Ballad Of Chernobyl I think, to which he also wrote the words. > Oh yes! Also, a shortish excerpt from a beautiful Cobra session, > involving Marc Ribot for sure, and various others (can't remember or > didn't know), quite quiet, with scraping and tinkling percussion by most > of them and stuff... wonderful. I was under the impression that that was a portion of Kristallnacht (I haven't listened too much to it so I can't be sure). I'm probably wrong though. > Altogether an excellent movie. Filmed mostly on video I think, with some > very clever editing in some bits and at other times perhaps excessively > low-buget in feel, but who cares? Lots of excellent Jewish music, > wonderful live performances, snippets of rehearsal, and commentary from > the musicians (not including any direct-to-camera talking by Zorn, > interestingly) - what more could one seriously ask for? Well, um, some direct-to-camera talking by Zorn perhaps? A bit more than that "cut" at the end at least... But a great movie as you said. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert A. Pleshar" <rpleshar@midway.uchicago.edu> Subject: Re: Sabbath in Paradise Date: 16 Nov 1998 08:09:50 -0600 (CST) At 12:05 AM 11/17/98 +1100, Peter Hollo wrote: >There were a couple of slightly more traditional klezmer musicians, whom >I didn't quite know... Andy Statman on clarinet and occasional mandolin, >an excellent musician but not particularly adventurous at all. Have you heard his quartet album from about a year ago called "Between Heavan and Earth?" You might be surprised. Rob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Oger <oger@worldnet.fr> Subject: Potlatch Date: 16 Nov 1998 16:36:55 +0100 (CET) Information about new Potlatch CD releases : 1. Fred Van HOVE "FLUX" (double CD) Piano solo recorded live in january 1998. 2. Daunik LAZRO (sax)/ Carlos "ZINGARO" (violin,electronics) duo "HAUTS PLATEAUX". Recorded live in february 1995. 3. Michel DONEDA soprano sax solo "ANATOMIE DES CLEFS" Recorded in winter 1998. More information available at http://www.potlatch.digiweb.fr Jacques Oger - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dennis summers <denniss@ic.net> Subject: Michael Mantler Date: 16 Nov 1998 09:08:37 -0700 Best I can remember, we've never discussed Michael Mantler, who IMHO is truly one of the greats. He's had a relatively (slow but) steady and high quality output for over 3 decades. His work is highly literate and achieves a mood that nobody else touches. The reason why I'm writing this, is that I've seen at least one (maybe more) release on some obscure european? label, and am wondering if anyone out there knows of a MM discography. I've searched the web to no avail. And also if any of you european folks no which releases I'm talking about and want to trade or something, let me know. yours in zornocity --ds ***Quantum Dance Works*** ****http://ic.net/~denniss**** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: Michael Mantler Date: 16 Nov 1998 11:37:32 -0500 Dennis wrote: >Best I can remember, we've never discussed Michael Mantler, who IMHO is >truly one of the greats. He's had a relatively (slow but) steady and high >quality output for over 3 decades. His work is highly literate and achieves >a mood that nobody else touches. The reason why I'm writing this, is that >I've seen at least one (maybe more) release on some obscure european? >label, and am wondering if anyone out there knows of a MM discography. I've >searched the web to no avail. And also if any of you european folks no >which releases I'm talking about and want to trade or something, let me >know. Hey, I'm pretty sure I've mentioned his 'Communications' at least once or twice, in comparison to Barry Guy's great 'Theoria'. The Mantler is one of my extreme all-time favorites, a unique an awe-inspiring work. It was also the first time I heard Cecil, and nothing has been the same since. I'm very fond of '13' (paired with Carla Bley's '3/4' on an early Watt release, one that I'm dying to see issued on disc; the power and density of '13' overwhelms the vinyl), 'No Answer', a setting of Beckett text with Jack Bruce, Cherry and Bley and 'The Hapless Child' (Edward Gorey's text sung by Robert Wyatt.) They're all very fine records. I've been less taken with subsequent releases that I've heard ('Live', 'Alien', 'Many Have No Speech'), though all contain at least a little of interest. Haven't seen anything of his not on WATT/ECM. Along ex-spousal lines, wasn't 'Escalator' performed somewhere in Europe last year? Any recordings of this event ever surface? Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Collectors' corner (Tzadik Website) Date: 16 Nov 1998 09:23:53 -0800 On Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:26:03 +0100 Stefan Verstraeten wrote: > > Does anyone has a clue what happened with the collectors' corner on the > tzadik website??? > IMHO, the tzadik website seems nowadays like a T.T.M.A.R. - Website > (take the money and run). > No more zorn top 10, the artist info is most of the case outdated... > What's happening???? I think that they simply have nobody to take care of the site... Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: NYC electroacoustic radio alert Date: 16 Nov 1998 13:07:31 EST press release follows: For a full 72 consecutive hours, all day on November 17, 18, and 19, WKCR-FM 89.9 in NEW YORK CITY, the original FM radio station, will be presenting an Electronic Music Festival. The festival will run the gamut, with everything from blocks devoted to particular artists, such as Karlheinz Stockhausen, Iannis Xenakis, John Cage, Pierre Henry, and David Tudor; to segments devoted to particular genres, such as Computer Music, Electronic Classical, Musique Concrete, Electroacoustic, Live Electronics, Electronics in Rock, Modern Electronica, and Noise. In addition, especially during the late night/early morning hours, there will be several freeform segments, during which our DJs will freely mix and mingle these and all kinds of progressive electronic music. Finally, there will be several live performances throughout the festival, featuring both NYC artists and artists from other parts of the country and world whose sounds will be conveyed to us and our listeners through networking technology. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: APoesia794@aol.com Subject: 100 turntables Date: 16 Nov 1998 13:52:30 EST does anyone know anything about christian marclay's piece for 100 turntables? i'm familiar with some of his recorded works (records, more encores, zorn projects etc...) but would like to know more about this piece. are there any recordings of it? what and who did it involve etc. thanks peace jt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Collectors' corner (Tzadik Website) Date: 16 Nov 1998 19:55:04 EST In a message dated 11/16/98 12:27:17 PM Eastern Standard Time, proussel@ichips.intel.com writes: > On Mon, 16 Nov 1998 11:26:03 +0100 Stefan Verstraeten wrote: > > > > Does anyone has a clue what happened with the collectors' corner on the > > tzadik website??? > > IMHO, the tzadik website seems nowadays like a T.T.M.A.R. - Website > > (take the money and run). > > No more zorn top 10, the artist info is most of the case outdated... > > What's happening???? > > I think that they simply have nobody to take care of the site... > I was under the impression that the sitemaster just got tired of trying to keep up with Zorn. I certainly wouldn't want to try... =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Michael Mantler Date: 16 Nov 1998 19:55:01 EST In a message dated 11/16/98 11:12:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, denniss@ic.net writes: > Best I can remember, we've never discussed Michael Mantler, who IMHO is > truly one of the greats. He's had a relatively (slow but) steady and high > quality output for over 3 decades. His work is highly literate and achieves > a mood that nobody else touches. The reason why I'm writing this, is that > I've seen at least one (maybe more) release on some obscure european? label, > and am wondering if anyone out there knows of a MM discography. I've > searched the web to no avail. And also if any of you european folks no which > releases I'm talking about and want to trade or something, let me know. Sure wish he would go ahead and reissue _The Hapless Child_- his best LP, IMO. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Sabbath in Paradise Date: 16 Nov 1998 23:12:28 -0500 Julian wrote: > > Also, a fantastic accordian player who also played guitar at one point, > > and I'd be very grateful if someone could tell me who he was. > > That's Michael Alpert from David Krakauer's Trio Isn't our own Ted Reichman the accordionist in the Krakauer Trio? He certainly has been for the last several years, and I know he also plays guitar (with Ezther Balint, among others). Shortish black haired lad with specs. Ted? Ya there? Course I haven't seen the film in question, but, as the Elephant Man said, "Oh, I shall, I shall." Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Sabbath in Paradise Date: 17 Nov 1998 15:20:07 +1100 > > > Also, a fantastic accordian player who also played guitar at one point, > > > and I'd be very grateful if someone could tell me who he was. > > > > That's Michael Alpert from David Krakauer's Trio > > Isn't our own Ted Reichman the accordionist in the Krakauer Trio? He certainly > has been for the last several years, and I know he also plays guitar (with > Ezther Balint, among others). Shortish black haired lad with specs. Ted? Ya > there? The guy in the film is definitely Michael Alpert, and the guy on "Klezmer Madness!" is also Michael Alpert. Peter told me that there is a different accordianist on the new Krakauer cd, so I don't know who is the official accordianist, maybe used to be Alpert, and now Reichman? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Michael Alpert Date: 17 Nov 1998 18:43:10 +1100 Just to clear everything about Michael Alpert, the band he would call home is Brave Old World, they've got two cds out, and he must have just been a guest on Krakauer's first Klezmer Madness cd. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be> Subject: Re: Sabbath in Paradise Date: 17 Nov 1998 10:39:57 +0100 >> Marc Ribot talks in his slightly drug-fucked way about a lot of things. >> Because of his manner, most of the audience thought he was screamingly >> funny and I think the highly intelligent philosophising he was doing >> totally passed over their heads. > > I think the problem was that ALL of his playing made him out to be a punk > rock guitarist, because I believe this footage probably came before his Bar > Kokhba/Circle Maker work. In an interview on the Belgian Radio yesterday, Ribot talked about his Jewishness. For him it is nothing more than playing in these Klezmer-scales and he is not at all so radical Jewish as Zorn. He acknowledges the political significance of the movement when it all started (as a reaction against the many right-wing groups in the music-bizz), but now it's a bit to political and nationalist for him. He prefers the pure music. He also talked about Klezmer and Cuban music having the same roots in Middle-Eastern Music. >> Oh yes! Also, a shortish excerpt from a beautiful Cobra session, >> involving Marc Ribot for sure, and various others (can't remember or >> didn't know), quite quiet, with scraping and tinkling percussion by most >> of them and stuff... wonderful. > > I was under the impression that that was a portion of Kristallnacht (I > haven't listened too much to it so I can't be sure). I'm probably wrong > though. Maybe you're talking about the piece "the Sand's Share" that was rehearsed in the movie. It looks like a gamepiece (at least Zorn is taking notes and showing cards), but most sounds are from his Bar Kokhba-vocabulary. Quiet and ambient indeed, very nice! To my knowledge this composition was not released up to know, but it was listed by Zorn on Aporias (or was it Angelus Novus). YVes - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francesco Martinelli" <f.martinelli@comune.pisa.it> Subject: Introduction and NYC visit Date: 17 Nov 1998 10:52:06 +0100 Dear friends, I just subscribed to the list and I'd like to introduce myself. I live in Pisa, Italy and been interested in improvised music since the mid seventies, promoting festivals and developing other activities. You may have seen my liner notes on releases by Anthony Braxton, Evan Parker and several italian musicians; recently I developed an activity with the Italian Instabile Orchestra, promoting a Festival in Dec. 97, contributing to a book, and now organizing another 8 concerts that will climax in another three days in Dec. 98 celebrating the publication of a double Cd on Leo recorded I also published a Discography of Evan Parker and one of Mario Schiano, but I do not want to bore everyone with a CV. I'm not strictly a Zornhead, while appreciating many of the things the man does, including is style in the promotion/production field. However Brian (thanks) suggested that I join the list as many of the other subjects that I'm interested to were discussed before and the list was quite open minded (as confirmed by the very first messages I saw). I'll be visiting NY from Nov 24 to Dec. 2. I'll be reviewing gigs for Musica Jazz magazine so I'll be glad to receive any suggestions. I'll be also very happy to meet people on the list at the gigs, and to share any information or knowledge I may have on the italian/european scene; I have lectured about this subject before and also gave a course to NYU Summer Courses in Pisa for the past three years. If anyone is interested in organizing a lecture, public discussion, meeting, whatever, I'd be happy to participate. You can contact me at both my email addresses, home and workplace. fmartinelli@tin.it F.Martinelli@comune.pisa.it looking forward to hear from you.... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J.T. de Boer" <J.T.de.Boer@let.rug.nl> Subject: Re: Collectors' corner (Tzadik Website) Date: 17 Nov 1998 14:22:03 +0200 Hi Stefan and other members, I have a question about the Tzadik collecter-cd's. I have the Duras-Duchamp album, and on the inner side of the back sleeve there's a print of Duchamp's Etant Donn=E9. It took a while before I mentioned this, but *could* this be one of the collecter's items? Best wishes, Jeroen > Hi, > > Does anyone has a clue what happened with the collectors' corner on the > tzadik website??? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J.T. de Boer" <J.T.de.Boer@let.rug.nl> Subject: Shea Date: 17 Nov 1998 14:59:48 +0200 Hi all, thsi weekend David Shea did two shows in the city of Groningen. I invited him to come over here (I'm the music director of the Universities Theatre). The first night, november 14, he did the soundtrack of the incredible video-art documentary Dial H-I-S-T-O-R-Y. Shea played in front of the screen, and it was great to see how he blended into the film. Not because he was a perfect character for the movie, but because of the beautiful coherence between image and sound. Shea is one of the few sample-composer's by whom you don't have the urge to trie and recognize the material he is using. You're (well, at least I am) always captivated by the final compostion. If you haven't seen this film, go and see it if you can. It's shown a lot, so there's definately a chance to check out an appearance. The second night, november 15, Shea did four pieces. The first one was Trio for Solo Sampler. An eclectic piece, recorded for his first solo-album. Very funny (imagine a combination of pounding housebeat and banjo-playing)! The second piece was Satyricon. Again Shea was playing in front of the screen. The video was made by Lisa Dilillo, and also a must if you like like video/media-art. After the break Shea did Alphaville, a black and white movie. I didn't know it, and I think it was the weakest thing he did during the weekend, especially compared to his last piece: a dedication to the filmmusic of Tex Avery cartoons. He's working on a combination of the original cartoons and his music, but there seem to be quite some copyright-problems. He's coming over here again in june, together with Lisa Dilillo, to do new things during the new media and electronic music festival I'm organising. I'm looking forward to it! Jeroen PS. He's released a new album on Tzadik called "Classical Works". One piece he did with the incredible belgian Ictus Ensemble, another with Friedlander and Pugliese. I'll send a review later this week. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: philz <zampino@squidco.com> Subject: Re: Michael Mantler Date: 17 Nov 1998 11:10:26 -0500 >Best I can remember, we've never discussed Michael Mantler, who IMHO is >truly one of the greats. He's had a relatively (slow but) steady and high >quality output for over 3 decades. His work is highly literate and achieves >a mood that nobody else touches. The reason why I'm writing this, is that >I've seen at least one (maybe more) release on some obscure european? label= , >and am wondering if anyone out there knows of a MM discography. I've >searched the web to no avail. And also if any of you european folks no whic= h >releases I'm talking about and want to trade or something, let me know. > >yours in zornocity --ds >***Quantum Dance Works*** >****http://ic.net/~denniss**** > Here's a discography I picked up in '94 from Julian Christou on the prog=20 rock list... it's a it out of date, and I believe more of the Watt stuff=20 has been reissued on CD on the ECM label, but I have no idea how much. I=20 know I'd like it all, though :) philz Path:=20 panix!cmcl2!swiss.ans.net!howland.reston.ans.net!math.ohio-state.edu!sdd.hp.= com!=20 news.cs.indiana.edu!news.Arizona.EDU!olympus!christou =46rom: christou@olympus.as.arizona.edu (Julian Christou) Newsgroups: alt.music.progressive Organization: University of Arizona, Tucson, AZ Lines: 77 Message-ID: <34kpvr$eo6@news.CCIT.Arizona.EDU> References: <34jg4f$qo8@worak.kaist.ac.kr> NNTP-Posting-Host: olympus.as.arizona.edu In article <34jg4f$qo8@worak.kaist.ac.kr> icshin@chiak.kaist.ac.kr (Incheol= =20 Shin) writes: > >Hi, Folks > >I recently got my copy of Michael Mantler's live album. >To my surprise, it features Nick Mason, Jack Bruce(of Cream fame), >and Robert Wyatt !! >The music is kinda Jazz Rock and very interesting. > >But I have completely no idea about Michael Mantler. >Who is he anyway ? >Any info about Michael Mantler will be greatly appreciated. > I'm interested in the "live" album you have. Mine does not have RW on it. As for who is MM. A long time collaborator of Carla Bley - has played with various European Jazz/Rock musicians over the years. His music can be straig= ht jazz but more often than not setting poems and prose by contemporary authors to music, e.g. Edward Gorey - The Hapless Child, Samual Beckett - No Answer. Also you may wish to check out some of Carla Bley's works but especially Nick Mason's Fictitious Sports with music & songs by Bley and lyrics sung by Wyatt. Appended below in my discography for Mantler from my own collection giving label and release dates as well as musicians and track listing. Is your "Live" the same as mine? -------------------- The Hapless Child And Other Inscrutable Stories WATT WATT/4 1976 LP Robert Wyatt; carla Bley; Steve Swallow; Jack DeJohnette; Terje Rydpal; Alfreda Benj; The Sinking Spell; The Object-Lesson; The Insect God; The doubtful Guest; The Remembered Visit; The Hapless Child; No Answer WATT WATT/2 1973 LP Jack Bruce; Michael mantler; Carla Bley; Don Cherry; Number Six (parts 1 - 4); Number Twelve (parts 1 - 4); Silence WATT WATT/5 1977 LP Michael Mantler; Carla Bley; Robert Wyatt; Kevin Coyne; Chris Spedding; Ron McClure; I Walk With My Girl; I Watch The Clouds; It Is Curiously Hot; When I Run; Sometimes I See People; Around Me Sits The Night; She Was Looking Down; For Instance; A Long Way; After My Work Each D= ay; On Good Evenings; More Movies WATT WATT/10 1980 LP Micheal Mantler; Philip Catherine; Gary Windo; Carla Bley; Steve Swallow; D Sharpe; Movie Nine; The Sinking Spell; Movie Eleven; Will We Meet Tonight?; Movie Thirteen; The Doubtful Guest; Movie Fifteen; Movie Fourteen; The Doubtful Guest; Movie Fifteen; Movie Fourteen; The Doubtful Guest; Movie Fifteen; Movie Fourteen; Movie Ten; Movie Twelve; Something There WATT WATT/13 1983 LP Michael Mantler; Carla Bley; Mike Stern; Steve Swallow; Nick Mason; Michael Gibbs; Twenty; Twenty One; Nineteen; Seventeen; Eighteen; Something There; Alien WATT WATT/15 1985 LP Michael Mantler; Don Preston; Alien Parts 1-4 Live WATT WATT/18 1987 LP Mike Mantler; Jack Bruce; Mick Mason; John Greaves; Don Preston; Rick Fenn; Preview/No Answer; Slow Orchestra Piece #3 (Pisonniers); For Instance; Slow Orchestra Piece #8 (A L'Abattoir); When I Run; The Remembered Visit; Slow Orchestra Piece #6; The Hapless Child; The Doubtful Guest; Many Have No Speech WATT WATT/19 1988 CD Michael Mantler; Rick Fenn; Jack Bruce; Marianne Faithfull; Robert Wyatt; Introduction; Just As Someone; Ce Qu'a De Pis; Alles Scheint Rand; Imagine; In The End; Vieil Aller; Rien Nul; Tant De Temps; En Face; Chaque Jour; PSS; En Cadence; Something There; Comrade; Den Atem Ausgettauscht; A L'Abattoir; And What; D'ou La Voix; Fous Qui Disiez; Merk, Jetzt; Son Ombre; Reve; Life Connects; Silence; Viele Haben Keine Sprache; - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Given <dlgiven@julian.uwo.ca> Subject: Re: Potlatch Date: 17 Nov 1998 11:50:41 -0500 > Date: Mon, 16 Nov 1998 16:36:55 +0100 (CET) > From: Oger <oger@worldnet.fr> > Subject: Potlatch > > Information about new Potlatch CD releases : > > 1. Fred Van HOVE "FLUX" (double CD) > Piano solo recorded live in january 1998. > > 2. Daunik LAZRO (sax)/ Carlos "ZINGARO" (violin,electronics) duo "HAUTS > PLATEAUX". Recorded live in february 1995. > > 3. Michel DONEDA soprano sax solo "ANATOMIE DES CLEFS" > Recorded in winter 1998. > > More information available at http://www.potlatch.digiweb.fr > > Jacques Oger > I want to give these discs a high recommendation! I just finished listening to the Lazro/Zingaro, and one half of the Van Hove. Both are great. Considering Lazro is a colleague of Joe McPhee, this recording makes an interesting companion piece to the McPhee/Prentice disc. Very different. It is much more abstract, at times very intense, at others very sparse. The Van Hove is even better than his recent release on Nuscope. Flux is two long pieces, on per disc. I listened to the second one. It is a fine example of why he should be considered one of the great pianistsof our time. He is also one of he few free jazz pianists who doesn't borrow too much from Cecil Taylor. The piece I listened to is 42 minutes long, covering a wide range of piano technique, and never flags in energy or creativity. The Doneda disc is my next listen. And for anyone not familiar with Potlatch, also check out their first release from last spring, a Derek Bailey/Joelle Leandre duet. Nothing more needs to be said about that. Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: pizzolla redux Date: 17 Nov 1998 08:53:50 PST Last month, Steve Smith mentioned a great "trilogy" of albums by Astor Piazzolla, all origially on American Clave, I think. What are these albums? Also, a friend recommended ZERO HOUR, but I notice there is a ZERO HOUR and a TANGO ZERO HOUR. What's the difference? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: pizzolla redux Date: 17 Nov 1998 12:21:44 EST In a message dated 11/17/98 11:56:39 AM, c123018@hotmail.com wrote: <<Last month, Steve Smith mentioned a great "trilogy" of albums by Astor Piazzolla, all origially on American Clave, I think. What are these albums?>> The three records are _Tango: Zero Hour_, _The Rough Dancer and the Cyclical Night_, and _La Camorra: La Soledad de la Provocacion Apasionada_. Easily the best Piazzolla records, I've heard, especially Tango. Jon NP: WKCR's Electroacoustic Festival: 4 straight hours of electronic Xenakis! break out those tapes, baby. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: A few questions Date: 17 Nov 1998 12:49:52 -0500 (EST) > > For a full 72 consecutive hours, all day on November 17, 18, and 19, > WKCR-FM 89.9 in NEW YORK CITY, the original FM radio station, will be > presenting an Electronic Music Festival. The festival will run the gamut, > Do they broadcast over the internet? > Course I haven't seen the film in question, but, as the Elephant Man said, "Oh, > I shall, I shall." > Where can one see this? Is it on video or only at special theatre showings? t Peter told me that there is a different > accordianist on the new Krakauer cd, so I don't know who is the official > accordianist, maybe used to be Alpert, and now Reichman? Someone's prob. answered this already, but its Reichman on the new one, yes. Here's my other question: I read about the group Alterations (S. Beresford, Peter Cusack, David Toop, one other ?) in Derek Bailey's book, and recently I got the record _Guitar Solos 3_ (for $3!, w/ Frith, Chadbourne, Kaiser, Rowe, D. Williams, P. Cusack, and somone else). Anyway I liked Cusack's song, "Whistling with Guitar Accompaniement" and I've liked Beresford sometimes, so I'm wondeering -do they have any recordings and were/are they any good? The label is/was Bead, I think. Thanks for any help, WY - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: A few questions Date: 17 Nov 1998 13:12:00 EST In a message dated 11/17/98 12:54:19 PM, wyork@email.unc.edu wrote: <<> > For a full 72 consecutive hours, all day on November 17, 18, and 19, > WKCR-FM 89.9 in NEW YORK CITY, the original FM radio station, will be > presenting an Electronic Music Festival. The festival will run the gamut, > Do they broadcast over the internet?>> Unfortunately, no. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re: Michael Mantler Discography Date: 17 Nov 1998 13:47:35 -0500 philz wrote: > > Here's a discography I picked up in '94 from Julian Christou on the prog > rock list... it's a it out of date, and I believe more of the Watt stuff > has been reissued on CD on the ECM label, but I have no idea how much. I > know I'd like it all, though :) > -- > > The Hapless Child And Other Inscrutable Stories WATT WATT/4 1976 LP > No Answer WATT WATT/2 1973 LP > Silence WATT WATT/5 1977 LP > More Movies WATT WATT/10 1980 LP > Something There WATT WATT/13 1983 LP > Alien WATT WATT/15 1985 LP > Live WATT WATT/18 1987 LP > Many Have No Speech WATT WATT/19 1988 CD To which I would add; Movies WATT/7 1978 > Mantler, Bley,Swallow,Tony Williams, Larry Coryell 13 3/4 WATT/3 1973 > This is a split Mantler/Bley disc Mantlers piece is 13, for piano and 2 orchestras Folly Seeing All This ECM 1485 1994 > Mantler, Rick Fenn, The Balanescu quartet,Karen Mantler, Wollfgang Puschnig, Dave Adams, Jack Bruce Cerco Un Paese Innocente ECM 78118-21556-2 1995 > w/Mona Larsen and The danish Radio Big Band The School of Understanding ECM 78118-21648-2 1997 > w/ Don Preston, Jack Bruce, Robert Wyatt, John Greaves.............. ...plus the Jazz Composers Orchestra disc...dont know if that is considered Mantlers disc or not, my copy has long since vanished... BTW, while looking some of this up, I stumbled across a page on the ECM website that allows you to buy those hard-to-find European only ECM rekeases; http://www.ecmrecords.com/ecm/pricehelp/order-munich.html and yes, you can get The Hapless Child on CD there! There goes my credit card limit....again ;-) RW - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: A few questions Date: 16 Nov 1998 14:37:24 -0500 William York wrote: > Here's my other question: I read about the group Alterations (S. > Beresford, Peter Cusack, David Toop, one other ?) in Derek > Bailey's book, and recently I got the record _Guitar Solos 3_ (for $3!, w/ > Frith, Chadbourne, Kaiser, Rowe, D. Williams, P. Cusack, and somone else). Is this the record with Keith Rowe's excellent version of "For A"? (while the version on AMM's 'It Had Been An Ordinary Enough Day In Pueblo, Colorado' was so uninteresting...) > Anyway I liked Cusack's song, "Whistling with Guitar Accompaniement" and > I've liked Beresford sometimes, so I'm wondeering -do they have any > recordings and were/are they any good? The label is/was Bead, I think. Your missing man seems to be Terry Day. Here's the info: Peter Cusack/Steve Beresford/Terry Day/David Toop - Alterations (Bead 9) Bead released the record in '78 and I'm sure it's very difficult to find by now. Violinist Phillip Wachsmann runs the label now and I'm pretty sure he's been running it since it began. Both his solo 'Chathuna' and the Gushwachs disc are pretty phenomenal and I'm hoping they get to reissuing some of their vinyl onto CD. Check out Peter Stubley's excellent European Free Improvisors page at http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/ for all this info. There's an address for Bead which you might try writing... Here's a listing of Bead records with either Cusak or Beresford: Peter Cusack/Simon Mayo - Milk Teeth (Bead 1) Peter Cusack - After Being In Holland For Two Years (Bead 5) Gunter Christmann/Maarten van Regteren Altena/Peter Cusack/Guus Janssen/Paul Lovens - Groups In Front Of People 1 (Bead 14) Evan Parker/Terry Day/Maarten van Regteren Altena/Peter Cusack/Guus Janssen/Paul Termos/Paul Lytton - Groups In Front Of People 2 (Bead 15) Nigel Coombes/Steve Beresford - White String's Attached (Bead 16) Peter Cusack/Clive Bell - Bird Jumps Into Wood (Bead 22) I haven't actually heard any of these (just lifted them off Peter Stubley's site!) -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com> Subject: William Parker's In Order To Survive Date: 17 Nov 1998 08:49:59 -0500 William Parker's In Order to Survive will be celebrating the release of their new 2XCD recording this Sunday at the Unitarian Church, 22nd & Chestnut Sts, Phialdelphia at 4PM. The quartet consists of William on bass, Susie Ibarra drums, Rob Brown alto sax, and Cooper-Moore piano. Tickets will be available at the door. Sunday, December 6, Uri Caine's Mahler/Primal Light. The Unitarian Church, 22nd & Chestnut Sts., 4PM. SWEETNIGHTER PRODUCTIONS - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> Subject: Recent Goodies Date: 17 Nov 1998 20:17:07 -0500 Fred Frith Pacifica Tzadik Surprised I haven't see more discussion of this here. For my bucks, this is Frith's finest, most mature work yet. Essentially a single, long piece (with a brief coda for marimba), it's a chamber orchestra plus electronics setting for sparse text by Neruda. Largely calm and resonant, with songlike melodic patterns floating to the surface, nice use of natural sounds (a fire's crackling emerges periodically), softly intoned texts. Someone here posted a Frith response to (anticipated?) critics of this work a few months back. As I recall, he somewhat resented fans wanting more rock-oriented work. Well, IMHO, this is easily on par with his best Skeleton Crew work and, as a large scale undertaking (conceptually or materially), fulfills all of the promise of 'The Technology of Tears". Willem Breuker Psalm 122 BVHaast I can't tell you the misgivings I had buying this one, but the Breuker completist in me won out. Breuker doing a religious work?! The guy who wrote the music to Doodzonde? Shoulda listened to my inner atheist. This continues the downward spiral of WB's recorded work since 'Heibel' (with the exception, I have to say, of 'Sensemaya'). Live, the Kollektief still kicks major butt, but on recordings he's gotten into this repertoire habit where his tendency towards plodding pomposity is unleashed. There's some decent playing here and there (the great Andy Altenfelder and some nice work by Alex Coke), but by and large it's deadly earnest, accent on the deadly. "Comic relief" comes in the form of a few movements for barrel organ. Sorry, not buying any. If you only avoid purchasing one Breuker album in your lifetime, make sure it's this one. John White Piano Sonatas NMC In the liners for Howard Skempton's beautiful 'Well, Well, Cornelius', pianist Tilbury is mentioned as a proponent of contemporary British composers Michael Smith and John White, both of whom have done time in Gavin Bryars' ensemble. A while ago, I picked up Smith's 'First Piano Concert' on Matchless and found it surprisinly bland; White's work is pretty much the same. Whereas Skempton produces deep, heartfelt songs with apparent (though misleading) simplicity, these two trot out a tango here, a waltz there, handsomely crafted but with little integrity. My guess is that, critically, Skempton gets unfairly lumped in with White and Smith in the 'New Simplicity' movement. Don't believe the hype. Skempton's the real thing. (Various) Smarnamisa! Avant Some pretty neat music from northeast Italy, in the Resia Valley, that draws strongly from Slavic strains. Mostly performed on violin and cello with vocals, hand clappings and foot stompings. Interesting variation on the Balkana things we've known and loved. Nenes Akemodoro Unai Antinos So I had seen this blurb in the Knit schedule for a female Japanese trio called Ne Ne that sounded intriguing and had then forgotten about it. A week later I'm browsing the Japanese section in the store, see this disc and figure it's the same band. Wrong. But happily so. This is an Okinawan pop quartet, coming out of that island's folk roots movement that turn out to be a good deal of fun. Think of them as the Okinawan equivalent of Madagascar's Tarika Sammy. If you enjoyed 'Hai Jai Oki-San' from the first French, Frith, Kaiser, Thompson album, you might consider picking this one up. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: alankin <lankina@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: Sabbath in Paradise Date: 17 Nov 1998 20:50:28 -0500 Sounds like an interesting movie. > That's Michael Alpert from David Krakauer's Trio (isn't he on the cd you > mentioned at the end of your mail?) and I believe he is also in the > Klezmatics. Michael Alpert's a violinist in "Brave Old World." -- Alan Lankin lankina@worldnet.att.net http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Re: A few questions Date: 17 Nov 1998 23:25:19 -0500 (EST) > [...] I got the record _Guitar Solos 3_ [...] > Is this the record with Keith Rowe's excellent version of "For A"? (while the version > on AMM's 'It Had Been An Ordinary Enough Day In Pueblo, Colorado' was so > uninteresting...) Yes, that's the one. The other night I listened to it on 45 rpm without realizing it and I didn't even notice the difference, except for the length. > > > Anyway I liked Cusack's song, "Whistling with Guitar Accompaniement" and > > I've liked Beresford sometimes, so I'm wondeering -do they have any > > recordings and were/are they any good? The label is/was Bead, I think. > > Your missing man seems to be Terry Day. Here's the info: > > Peter Cusack/Steve Beresford/Terry Day/David Toop - Alterations (Bead 9) > [snip] Thanks, I don't expect to have much luck but I'll try. its too bad thatthis stuff is so impossible to find. I like this approach, from what I've heard -not too serious, not afraid to play melodic stuff, etc. Actually Cusack's song on _Guitar Solos 3_ is the only one I have any idea as to how its played -basically harmonics in standard tuning. I can get that, too bad I can't whistle. WY - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: OnionPalac@aol.com Subject: Parachute Years Date: 18 Nov 1998 00:53:16 EST Can anyone tell me if The Parachute Years boxed set is worth getting for $73.00. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stefan Verstraeten <stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be> Subject: Discussion on Laswell & (why not) Zorn Collectors' club Date: 18 Nov 1998 09:51:32 +0100 Dear Downtowners (real & virtual) For those of you who dig Bill Laswell and are not subscribed to the laswell mailing list (shame on you, hahahahaha), the following news. I started a question/discussion about a laswell (read the topic below & the first reactions) collectors' club. What do you think of this idea??? Would you deposit f.e. 100 u.s. dollars? Or for the european listmembers, would you pay some brand new EURO money??? > From: Stefan Verstraeten <stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be> > Subject: An interersting idea for Jeff Spirer, Bill Laswell and fans > > Dear Laswellians, > > A few days ago, everyone was pleased with the possibility that Bill > Laswell and Jeff Spirer would distribute live cd's trough this list. > This reminded me of something that exists allready. The fans of King > Krimson have started something called 'The collectors' club'. Fans > deposited a certain amount of money in advance. In this way, Robert > Fripp and a guy called Toby (this person can be compared with Mr. > Spirer, since this person also has regular contact with the artist) > could set up the preliminary production process. Then, every time a > (live or demo or rarity) cd comes out, they substract something from the > deposit. > > What are the advantages of a system like this: Well, in this way, it is > possible to publish cd's that are perhaps not suitable for big > distribution, but stuff that die hard fans like us are willing to die > for (sorry for the exageration). I think a lot of fans would like to > hear demos, live cd's,... as I said, things that are not interesting > enough for major distribution. A great expansive cover artwork won't be > necessary, it is the music that counts. > > And thanks to the deposit that fans made, the artist knows that this > project wont hurt him financially. > > So, my question is, what do you think of this idea, dear Laswell fans, > are you willing to deposit a certain amount of money to get rare stuff > from from laswell??? I WOULD CERTAINLY........... > And Mr. Jeff Spirer, what do YOU think of this idea, and please, would > you pass this email/question to Bill Laswell (and let us know his > reaction). > > Thanks in advance for the reactions, I'd like to hear of it. > > Best wishes, > -- > Stefan Verstraeten > From: Kip Robinson <kor@montana.com> > Subject: Re: An interersting idea for Jeff Spirer, Bill Laswell and fans > > I think this is a great idea! Not only does it give the deserving fans a > chance to hear what Laswell and participating musicians are capable of from a > live perspective. It also keeps the control issue in the hands of someone I > already trust. > From: laerm <laerm@voicenet.com> > Subject: Re: An interersting idea for Jeff Spirer, Bill Laswell and fans > also reminiscent of staalplaat's muslimgauze subscription service. > > i'd sign up for it... > From: Mark Lachman <marklachman@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: An interersting idea for Jeff Spirer, Bill Laswell and fans > yes, I agree and would sign up for it. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Hermann Nitsch Date: 18 Nov 1998 11:05:50 -0500 Has anyone heard the recorded versions of Nitsch's work? I've only read of his "spectacles", have no idea what the music, or associated goings-on, sounds like and am curious how much of this successfully tranfers to disc. I saw a couple of releases of his recently (somewhat relieved that the CD packet was not blood-spattered), but was reluctant to take the plunge without further info. Thanks, Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Mantler Date: 18 Nov 1998 16:04:07 GMT0BST Haven't heard it for years, but Michael Mantler's Movies was my favourite album of 1980, or whenever i got it! I suppose it slipped into my possession under jazz-rock auspices (Coryell, Bley, Swallow, Williams) but I can't help but think of it fondly. Notice it wasn't on the short list of Mantler releases posted on the last digest. Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stefan Verstraeten <stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be> Subject: Fred Frith Pacifica Date: 18 Nov 1998 17:34:41 +0100 > Hi Brian and Listmembers,Yeah, that was me who had a ***slight*** discussion with Fred Frith. What was the problem: Well, I bought 'the precious evening' (on ReR) and found the disk a little bit 'arty farty'. I posted this opnion on the fred frith - list, and got a tough answer back (check the archives if you want to read what fred frith said.... some very harsh words were written). Anyway, after listening to 'Pacifica' a few times, I still feel to same way: great well composed record, indeed very mature, but I still don't get INTO the record. But hey, since I am a political correct guy (according to ***someone***)... yeah, you're right, I haven't said anything..... Best wishes to everybody tough, hahahahahahaha Stefan Verstraeten > From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> > Fred Frith Pacifica Tzadik > Surprised I haven't see more discussion of this here. For my bucks, this > is Frith's finest, most mature work yet. Essentially a single, long > piece (with a brief coda for marimba), it's a chamber orchestra plus > electronics setting for sparse text by Neruda. Largely calm and > resonant, with songlike melodic patterns floating to the surface, nice > use of natural sounds (a fire's crackling emerges periodically), softly > intoned texts. Someone here posted a Frith response to (anticipated?) > critics of this work a few months back. As I recall, he somewhat > resented fans wanting more rock-oriented work. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Risser <risser@goodnews.net> Subject: No Zorn Content Date: 18 Nov 1998 11:42:43 -0500 But I figured if anyone would know, the musicophiles on this list would. Anyone know where to find 3" recordable CDs? Do they even exist? Thanks, Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "GASK" <gask@findo.freeserve.co.uk> Subject: Re: A few questions Date: 18 Nov 1998 18:51:15 -0800 >Here's my other question: I read about the group Alterations (S. >Beresford, Peter Cusack, David Toop, one other ?) in Derek >Bailey's book, and recently I got the record _Guitar Solos 3_ (for $3!, w/ >Frith, Chadbourne, Kaiser, Rowe, D. Williams, P. Cusack, and somone else). >Anyway I liked Cusack's song, "Whistling with Guitar Accompaniement" and >I've liked Beresford sometimes, so I'm wondeering -do they have any >recordings and were/are they any good? The label is/was Bead, I think. I have another record by alterations, entitled 'Up Your Sleeve'. It is from 1980, consisting of live recordings, and yes, i think it is pretty good. It may also still be available, as i only bought it about a year ago, although it was in a clearance sale. (Quartz Publications, QUARTZ006). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Knutboy@aol.com Subject: San Diego Record Store Recomendations Date: 18 Nov 1998 13:47:01 EST Can anyone recommend any interesting new/second-hand collector type stores in San Diego? Especially interested in rare world/reggae, and avant garde jazz. Thanks! Steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Given <dlgiven@julian.uwo.ca> Subject: re: brian's recent goodies Date: 18 Nov 1998 13:57:02 -0500 >Date: Tue, 17 Nov 1998 20:17:07 -0500 >From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> >Subject: Recent Goodies >Willem Breuker Psalm 122 BVHaast > >I can't tell you the misgivings I had buying this one, but the Breuker >completist in me won out. Breuker doing a religious work?! The guy who >wrote the music to Doodzonde? Shoulda listened to my inner atheist. This >continues the downward spiral of WB's recorded work since 'Heibel' (with >the exception, I have to say, of 'Sensemaya'). Live, the Kollektief >still kicks major butt, but on recordings he's gotten into this >repertoire habit where his tendency towards plodding pomposity is >unleashed. There's some decent playing here and there (the great Andy >Altenfelder and some nice work by Alex Coke), but by and large it's >deadly earnest, accent on the deadly. "Comic relief" comes in the form >of a few movements for barrel organ. Sorry, not buying any. If you only >avoid purchasing one Breuker album in your lifetime, make sure it's this >one. Hey Brian - didn't I warn you off of this one a couple of months ago? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Felix" <jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt> Subject: Top 5 Zorns Date: 18 Nov 1998 19:50:45 +0100 Perhaps this will catch on... Out of over 20 Zorn albums I find these to be the five I enjoy the best (in no particular order): JOHN ZORN: KRISTALLNACHT - IMHO, Zorn's most successful aproach on improvised experimental. Full of feeling. Creepy. Scary. Passionate. I love the way Ribot freaks out in the last tune while Winant seems to be learning out to play, experimenting with various sounds in the drums. A must for Zorniacs. NAKED CITY: RADIO - While I love all Naked City material, including the polemic "Absinthe", I have a special love for this one, specially because it was the first time I ever heard John Zorn. I find this album to be a bit more cohese than the first album, the songs being longer and "groovier". I also like the way the album seems to build on intensity, growing from my-parents-would-like-this jazz to stuff not unlike grind core. JOHN ZORN: SPILLANE - Spillane features three tracks absolutely different from each other, and I love each and everyone of them, specially, of course, the title track. While I found "The Bribe" also enjoyable, the lack of cohesion caused by Lindsay's text made it a little less enjoyable. Robert Quine had a funny way of playing back then - his guitar always seems distant and screechy. Does he still sound the same? "You kill ten guys and one of them is bound to come back..." Wonderfull! JOHN ZORN'S MASADA: SEVEN - Out of the three Masada quartet albums I know, I like "Seven" the best. It features excellent work by all of the band. I particularly like the way Greg Cohen seems to have a more active role, but maybe that's just because of the wonderful "Otiot" tune. Masada is a great quartet, featuring four of the greatest musicians in the world. It's too bad that they decided to stop, but I think ten albums are a good imput. JOHN ZORN: MUSIC FOR CHILDREN - this recent album is wonderful, being varied and neatly performed. It gives out three Naked City tunes, an improvised piece, a pice of Ribot and Cohen playing that would fit well in Circle Maker or perhaps in the Anton, the Mailman film, some Coleman playing the celeste and a long piece for wind machines. It's almost impossible that someone will not like at least one of the songs in the album. Excellent! This choice was difficult and may be different next week. But right now these are my Top 5 Zorns. It just makes me wonder how could I leave out the Filmworks, Bar Kokhba, The Big Gundown and such excellent albums. Felix jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TWHY666@aol.com Subject: off subject...Boredoms? Date: 18 Nov 1998 21:34:07 EST hello got the new Boredoms and it's great! Does anyone have any tour info? If they are touring are they coming to Denver? thanks, chad - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Discussion on Laswell & (why not) Zorn Collectors' club Date: 19 Nov 1998 00:27:56 -0500 Stefan Verstraeten wrote: > > A few days ago, everyone was pleased with the possibility that Bill > > Laswell and Jeff Spirer would distribute live cd's trough this list. > > This reminded me of something that exists allready. The fans of King > > Krimson have started something called 'The collectors' club'. Fans > > deposited a certain amount of money in advance. In this way, Robert > > Fripp and a guy called Toby (this person can be compared with Mr. > > Spirer, since this person also has regular contact with the artist) > > could set up the preliminary production process. Actually, Toby has nothing to do with the Collector's Club. He runs the Elephant Talk fan mailing list. The Club is entirely run by Fripp via his record label Discipline Global Mobile. They solicited fan input from Elephant Talk and the DGM website guestbook as to what kinds of material the fans want to see, and they also sent out a form to all paid subscribers asking what kinds of releases they'd like (old KC boots reclaimed and remastered as well as unbooted live shows, which make up the first few releases; recent live material that might be of too limited appeal to put in the shops, including specific shows acclaimed by those who attended; outtakes and demos, and material from the band's constituent members). But beyond the advice solicited, the shots are called by Fripp and Fripp alone. A $96 subscription entitles members to six bimonthly releases, shipped automatically unless a subscriber indicates he or she doesn't want a certain release, much like Columbia House in that regard. The first was a July 1969 show available previously as a bootleg, cleaned up as much as possible and packaged with photos, credits, notes, and royalties paid to the artists, plus a 15 minute bonus track previously available in tape trading circles but not booted to my knowledge (and I've got about three feet of shelf space devoted to Crim boots...). A complete explanation of the club's workings can be viewed at http://www.discipline.co.uk/news/news.htm I have to say I'm awfully happy with the first club offering and with the scenario in general... it always has bugged me to buy the boots since I know how opposed Fripp is, but I confess I've bought them anyway. With Laswell and Zorn that issue has not been a big one at all so far, to my knowledge. But I could see the club scenario working for them, though I'd never considered it (especially for Zorn, since he releases pretty much everything he wants to, and in overwhelming volume). Speaking of Laswell, the long-awaited Panthalassa Remix CD-5 is on the Columbia schedule for February. Five remixes of Panthalassa tracks, including one remix by Laswell himself. I'm not on the Laswell list so you may already have heard this, but it hasn't been previously posted on the Zornlist. (Stefan, feel free to cross-post any of this you might find useful to your discussion, if anything.) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - "Sometimes God Smiles - The Young Persons' Guide to Discipline, Volume II" (DGM sampler purchased at Fripp Soundscapes show this evening) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stefan Verstraeten <stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be> Subject: Laswell collectors' club Date: 19 Nov 1998 09:14:18 +0100 Steve Smith wrote: > With Laswell and Zorn that issue > has not been a big one at all so far, to my knowledge. But I could see the club > scenario working for them, though I'd never considered it (especially for Zorn, > since he releases pretty much everything he wants to, and in overwhelming volume). Hi Steve, thanks for your reply.The collectors' idea for Laswell was launced on the Laswell Mailing List some time ago, not on the Zornlist (sorry for the surprise, hahahahahaha). Yes you're right, zorn publishes practically everything, but, how about live recordings (everybody knows the naked city live is COMPLETELY different than the studio naked city albums). I think a (small) adience would be interested in this idea. Concerning Laswell, Jeff Spirer mentioned on the laswell list that oz and robert musso have 'a lot of live tapes'. Anyway, i think there is an adience for this collectors' idea. Best wishes, Stefan NP Eugene Chadbourne: Jungle Coockies (completely nutty stuff, but i dig this) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FJG_Lamerikx <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> Subject: Albert Ayler's "Spiritual Unity" Date: 19 Nov 1998 11:55:35 +0100 (MET) I've been getting into jazz classics as of late, and since I reckon Albert Ayler's "Spiritual Unity" is in this category, I was wondering what label I can find it on. Also, can anyone shed light on which version of Bitches Brew I should get? Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FJG_Lamerikx <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> Subject: Re: Albert Ayler's "Spiritual Unity" Date: 19 Nov 1998 15:44:26 +0100 (MET) > > I've been getting into jazz classics as of late, and since I reckon Albert > > Ayler's "Spiritual Unity" is in this category, I was wondering what label > > I can find it on. > > this is officially out-of-print on cd. the zyx reissued it on cd for > several years, but their license lapsed recently. an italian label > called get back reissued it on vinyl, but they allegedly mastered it > straight from the esp/zyx compact disc. some of those get back lps > supposedly have digital clicks on them. you might want to check some > used bins. In that case, which label originally released the album? And who has the rights to it now (read: is there any chance of an official re-issue some time soon)? Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: Albert Ayler's "Spiritual Unity" Date: 19 Nov 1998 09:43:50 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, FJG_Lamerikx wrote: > I've been getting into jazz classics as of late, and since I reckon Albert > Ayler's "Spiritual Unity" is in this category, I was wondering what label > I can find it on. this is officially out-of-print on cd. the zyx reissued it on cd for several years, but their license lapsed recently. an italian label called get back reissued it on vinyl, but they allegedly mastered it straight from the esp/zyx compact disc. some of those get back lps supposedly have digital clicks on them. you might want to check some used bins. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: Albert Ayler's "Spiritual Unity" Date: 19 Nov 1998 09:58:45 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, FJG_Lamerikx wrote: > > this is officially out-of-print on cd. the zyx reissued it on cd for > > several years, but their license lapsed recently. an italian label > > called get back reissued it on vinyl, but they allegedly mastered it > > straight from the esp/zyx compact disc. some of those get back lps > > supposedly have digital clicks on them. you might want to check some > > used bins. > > In that case, which label originally released the album? And who has the > rights to it now (read: is there any chance of an official re-issue some time > soon)? ESP, which was a small independent label, released the record in the mid-'60s. zyx acquired the rights to the catalogue and began reissuing the titles in the early '90s. their license lapsed recently and it's not quite clear when new ESP reissues will appear on cd. get back has been reissuing the stuff on vinyl, but like i said, the quality and legality seem kind of dubious. hope that helps. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Albert Ayler's Date: 19 Nov 1998 07:41:14 PST ...... but they allegedly mastered it >straight from the esp/zyx compact disc. some of those get back lps >supposedly have digital clicks on them. you might want to check some >used bins. > >b Speaking of audio quirks, I was listening to my copy of UNITY the other day, and in the middle of "Ghosts (Second Variation)", there was a one or two second 'beep'. Similar to weather warning beeps that intrude on an otherwise uneventful evening of television. Does anyone else's ESP-CD copy have this phenomenon? And somewhere, I read that the original vinyl copy came with a hidden booklet of poems or other comentary by the session's engineer, Mr. Paul Haines. Did anyone here know that Lennie Tristano engineered some his own sessions? Pretty impressive. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FJG_Lamerikx <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> Subject: Re: Albert Ayler's "Spiritual Unity" Date: 19 Nov 1998 15:44:26 +0100 (MET) > > I've been getting into jazz classics as of late, and since I reckon Albert > > Ayler's "Spiritual Unity" is in this category, I was wondering what label > > I can find it on. > > this is officially out-of-print on cd. the zyx reissued it on cd for > several years, but their license lapsed recently. an italian label > called get back reissued it on vinyl, but they allegedly mastered it > straight from the esp/zyx compact disc. some of those get back lps > supposedly have digital clicks on them. you might want to check some > used bins. In that case, which label originally released the album? And who has the rights to it now (read: is there any chance of an official re-issue some time soon)? Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Albert Ayler's "Spiritual Unity" Date: 19 Nov 1998 11:52:27 -0500 (EST) Ayler - ESP Disk. All his in-print ESP-Disk and Impulse CDs are worth a listen. Bitches - only have the original 2-LP set. But the reviews I've read suggest that the "complete" version adds all type of extraneous material that detracts from the original. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, FJG_Lamerikx wrote: > > I've been getting into jazz classics as of late, and since I reckon Albert > Ayler's "Spiritual Unity" is in this category, I was wondering what label > I can find it on. > > Also, can anyone shed light on which version of Bitches Brew I should get? > > Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vlad-Drac@webtv.net (Theo Klaase) Subject: A PictUre Date: 19 Nov 1998 11:55:16 -0600 (CST) Where can I find a really big/neat/cool picture of John Zorn. Any info greatly appreciated. }Theodorus-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Albert Ayler's "Spiritual Unity" Date: 19 Nov 1998 10:44:11 -0600 (CST) On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Brent Burton wrote: > ESP, which was a small independent label, released the record in the > mid-'60s. zyx acquired the rights to the catalogue and began reissuing > the titles in the early '90s. their license lapsed recently and it's not > quite clear when new ESP reissues will appear on cd. get back has been > reissuing the stuff on vinyl, but like i said, the quality and legality > seem kind of dubious. hope that helps. > FWIW, the recent ESP versions are probably still in stores. I picked up my copy a few months ago, and I'm pretty sure I've seen ESP Aylers at various stores recently. ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com (Martin Wisckol) Subject: san diego record stores Date: 19 Nov 1998 11:42:50 -0800 steve -- unfortunately i haven't lived in san diego for some time. but one of my old favorite stores is still around and i drop in when i'm in town. lou's records on pacific coast highway in leucadia. large and diverse used CDs and vinyl in one building. new stuff in another -- not the size of tower, but selected with taste, affection and eccentricity.... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Given <dlgiven@julian.uwo.ca> Subject: Re: Spiritual Unity Date: 19 Nov 1998 15:23:13 -0500 Cadence still has Spiritual Unity listed in the November issue. ANd the best thng is, they have it listed for only $8. Maybe something to do with the licensing change that they are selling ESP stuff so cheap, because it used to be $13. Dan >From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> >Subject: Re: Albert Ayler's "Spiritual Unity" > >On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, Brent Burton wrote: > >> ESP, which was a small independent label, released the record in the >> mid-'60s. zyx acquired the rights to the catalogue and began reissuing >> the titles in the early '90s. their license lapsed recently and it's not >> quite clear when new ESP reissues will appear on cd. get back has been >> reissuing the stuff on vinyl, but like i said, the quality and legality >> seem kind of dubious. hope that helps. >> > >FWIW, the recent ESP versions are probably still in stores. I picked up my >copy a few months ago, and I'm pretty sure I've seen ESP Aylers at various >stores recently. >- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Martens <ericmartens@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Bitches Brew (was Re: Albert Ayler's "Spiritual Unity") Date: 19 Nov 1998 12:32:55 -0800 (PST) ---Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> wrote: > Bitches - only have the original 2-LP set. But the reviews I've read > suggest that the "complete" version adds all type of extraneous material > that detracts from the original. > > Ken Waxman > cj649@torfree.net It shd. be added that the original 2CD release (which is all I've heard) is really muddy-sounding (badly remastered or something), & I for one intend to spend the bucks for the "complete" version just b/c it supposedly sounds a lot cleaner. eric martens > > > On Thu, 19 Nov 1998, FJG_Lamerikx wrote: > > Also, can anyone shed light on which version of Bitches Brew I should get? > > > > Frankco. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: a few things Date: 19 Nov 1998 17:23:10 -0500 (EST) > JOHN ZORN: MUSIC FOR CHILDREN - [snip] a long piece for wind machines. >It's almost impossible that someone will not like at least one of the >songs in the album. Excellent! I'm glad someone liked the wind machine piece because I couldn't get into it, or the title piece either. I love the other stuff but sadly it only adds up to 14 or 15 min > NP Eugene Chadbourne: Jungle Coockies (completely nutty stuff, but i dig this) And also this! This is one of the weirdest things I've heard this year, sustained over a long time (2 hrs.). Again , I'm glad somebody likes this because it lets me know there's something more to it than I hear, because I don't think I'll be listening to it again soon. Viva la difference (sp?). > Speaking of audio quirks, I was listening to my copy of UNITY the other > day, and in the middle of "Ghosts (Second Variation)", there was a one > or two second 'beep'. Similar to weather warning beeps that intrude on > an otherwise uneventful evening of television. Does anyone else's > ESP-CD copy have this phenomenon? I have heard this on a vinyl reissue too. I was also wondering about that. Also, the Ayler CDs and most of the ESP CDs are still listed in Cadence, for $8, but they have *'s beside them meaning they have limited quantities. Any must-haves? I'm going to order the New York Art Quartet and the Noah Howard 6tet and maybe someting else. Cadence also has all the older Music and Arts CDs for $9 now, but I don't know about any of those. WY - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: must-haves Date: 18 Nov 1998 18:23:10 -0500 > Also, the Ayler CDs and most of the ESP CDs are still listed in Cadence, > for $8, but they have *'s beside them meaning they have limited > quantities. Any must-haves? I'm going to order the New York Art Quartet > and the Noah Howard 6tet and maybe someting else. The Noah Howard is great. I'm actually listening to it right now. For ESP, my favorites are: All the Sun Ra but if I had to narrow it down to two, I'd say 'Heliocentric Worlds Vol. 2' and 'Concert For Comet Kohoutek'. Crucial stuff. Ayler's 'Spiritual Unity', 'Bells' and 'Spirits Rejoice' are all incredible. 'Live At Slug's Saloon Vol. 1' doesn't measure up at all (recording quality's pretty awful too). I never checked out Vol. 2 though. Same thing? The self-titled Marzette Watts disc is unreal. It's a large group featuring Sonny Sharrock, Karl Berger, Henry Grimes, J.C. Moses, etc. and is really one of the best things ESP ever put out as far as I'm concerned. The Lowell Davidson Trio disc is incredible too. He was a pianist protege of Ornette Coleman and plays here with Milford Graves and Gary Peacock. It's a shame he died so early. He's a very sensitive player, really likes fourths... I've played "Ad Hoc" too many times to remember. The Marion Brown and Giuseppi Logan discs are essential as well. The best Marion Brown I've ever heard and you will never hear anyone like Giuseppi Logan. Complete madman. I love that guy. What about that Bob James Trio disc 'Explosions'! Would you ever think the guy who composed the theme to Taxi had recorded with Barre Phillips? There's even some adittional tapework by Gordon Mumma and Robert Ashley! I was very surprised by how good this disc actually was. Also, Frank Wright's 'Your Prayer' (the trio is good too), both Paul Bleys, both Patty Waters (especially 'Sings' for the last track!), the Alan Silva, Henry Grimes, both Charles Tylers, Alan Sondheim's 'T Other Little Tune' (the first Sondheim I find sort of obnoxious), the Steve Lacy, Milford Graves Percussion Ensemble, Revolutionary Ensemble and Frank Lowe's 'Black Beings' are excellent. I love my ESP. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: Shibboleth Date: 20 Nov 1998 02:34:48 +0100 Hello. Can someone indicate where the piece by Zorn titled Shibboleth can be found, if at all (this orthograph may be wrong) and some info on it ? Thanks a lot. Benjamin Pequet - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Bitches Brew (was Re: Albert Ayler's "Spiritual Unity") Date: 20 Nov 1998 00:22:56 -0500 Eric Martens wrote: > ---Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> wrote: > > > Bitches - only have the original 2-LP set. But the reviews I've read > > suggest that the "complete" version adds all type of extraneous > material > > that detracts from the original. > > It shd. be added that the original 2CD release (which is all I've > heard) is really muddy-sounding (badly remastered or something), & I > for one intend to spend the bucks for the "complete" version just b/c > it supposedly sounds a lot cleaner. As with all of the other Miles box sets (except "Plugged Nickel," of course), sometime after the "Complete Bitches Brew Sessions" box has been out a while, there will be a new reissue of "Bitches Brew" using the newly remastered tapes used in the box. I know the quintet records from the last box have just been released, so expect a wait of maybe six months. Regarding the box, its worth just depends how strongly you feel about this particular six-month period of Miles's career. There is some fine stuff from "Big Fun," "Live-Evil" and "Circle in the Round" that gets appended here, but nothing of huge significance from the nine unreleased tracks, which are all okay at the least... *Why* this stuff got appended to a release called "The Complete Bitches Brew Sessions," when all six tracks from the original "Bitches Brew" release were from the three August sessions and none of the bonus material comes from those particular sessions... *that* was my question. The answer, as I learned when I had to interview someone from Legacy for the official Columbia Jazz newsletter (part of the day job, folks), that all of these sessions were based around the same core quintet of Davis / Shorter (later Grossman) / Corea / Holland / DeJohnette, with extra musicians (most notably Bennie Maupin and Joe Zawinul) added. After the last of these so-configured sessions, Miles dropped the horns-and-keys heavy lineup for the more guitar oriented "Jack Johnson" sessions, and then stuck with that for a while. For anyone who cares, the next three Miles boxes planned are the "Complete Miles and Coltrane" (1955-61, 8 CDs, supposedly March), the "Complete 'In a Silent Way'" and the "Complete 'Jack Johnson'" (both 3 CDs, both supposedly October or November). Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Wynton Marsalis - "Black Codes from the Underground" (yes, really...) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: ESP Date: 20 Nov 1998 09:50:19 -0500 (EST) > > Any must-haves? I'm going to order the New York Art Quartet > > and the Noah Howard 6tet and maybe someting else. i think "spiritual unity" is the absolute must-have out of the entire catalogue. the noah howard disc is some solid free-improv. the new york art quartet cd is amazing and one of the few truly unique records on that label (meaning that in a lot of ways ESP was like 1950's blue note - all the records are pretty great but some aren't that distinct in comparison to the rest of the catalogue). new york art quartet inverted the insane skronk of free jazz and played up the quiet side. a definite precursor to spontaneous music ensemble's classic "karyobin." the marzette watts is another truly unique ESP title and highly desirable for some early sonny sharrock guitar damage. start with those and sun ra's "heliocentric worlds" and then hope that someone reissues the catalogue soon! b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <sheepherder@uswest.net> Subject: labels Date: 20 Nov 1998 15:21:09 -0800 i was wondering if anyone out there has could please email me some info on other labels similar to Avant and Tzadik. i know East Side Digital (ESD) has put out a few good titles, and HatArt has put out a few, and of course DIW.... are there any others and how do i find catalogs and album descriptions etc. thanks for any help. -patrick in portland - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: numbat@vianet.net.au (Sibree/Wilkes) Subject: JAZZ LP AUCTION - ZORN CONTENT Date: 21 Nov 1998 11:21:11 +0800 My latest auction list contains a few Zorn items, listed below, but also contains other intriguing items. For details, email me. J E2669 Zorn John/Sato Michihiro Ganryu Island Yukon 2101 J E2722 Zorn/Various - Lindsay/Amati Ensemble etc Godard Ca Vous Chante? Nato (F) gf 634 J E2096 Lowe Frank feat. Zorn John Lowe & Behold Musicworks 3002 Regards, Billy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christian Heslop" <xian@mbay.net> Subject: Nina Simone? Date: 20 Nov 1998 19:50:04 -0800 I hope someone on this list can help me. A very long time ago when I worked in Seattle I had a friend who used to bring this Nina Simone CD to work and we'd listen to it while working.On this cd there was a song that had something to do with two people "making love" in a cornfield while a house burned down in the distance. Now, I'm not really sure that it was Nina Simone but it seems to me that it was and I thought that even an incorrect guess could help spark a memory. oh yeah...uh I really like Zorn....Grand Guignol changed my life... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <sheepherder@uswest.net> Subject: laswell Date: 21 Nov 1998 00:44:20 -0800 well i think it is clear that i am a lover of zorn. but i am looking to expand my bill laswell discography. i have nothing by him... i own only works he has appeared on, such as, Painkiller, Golden Palominos, Massacre, an Axiom comp (Funkcronimicon), and Praxis. i was wondering about his DIW release in particular as well as everything i find under his name in the "Electronica" section at my local record stores. One store actually will open and let you listen to any cd in the store (used or new), albeit the have limited laswell. any info on albums that compare to the above recordings/bands would be appreciated.... feel free to email me directly or post it if you feel the info is valuable to all. patrick in portland - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <sheepherder@uswest.net> Subject: chris cochrane Date: 21 Nov 1998 01:04:23 -0800 i just have to start a thread concerning the merits or lack thereof, of "bath". i am listening to it right now as i write. i have owned it for a while now but just now fell in love with it on the track "spit"........ gorgeous in every way..... commments please..... -patrick in portland - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Felix" <jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt> Subject: Re: a few things - Music for Children Date: 20 Nov 1998 21:10:58 +0100 >> JOHN ZORN: MUSIC FOR CHILDREN - [snip] a long piece for wind machines. >>It's almost impossible that someone will not like at least one of the >>songs in the album. Excellent! > >I'm glad someone liked the wind machine piece because I couldn't get into >it, or the title piece either. I love the other stuff but sadly it only >adds up to 14 or 15 min Well, the wind machine piece is an interesting exercise. But, once I've heard it full length 3 times or so, I think I'll never have the patience to hear it again. But it's still interesting... All those layers... As for the title track, well, it's stuff that seems right out of Elegy. Wynant is really impressive in his playing... But don't be sad, I like the other tracks much more too. :-) Felix jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: Re: Bitches Brew (was Re: Albert Ayler's "Spiritual Unity") Date: 21 Nov 1998 16:52:27 +0100 (MET) > It shd. be added that the original 2CD release (which is all I've > heard) is really muddy-sounding (badly remastered or something), & I > for one intend to spend the bucks for the "complete" version just b/c > it supposedly sounds a lot cleaner. the reissued vinyl version on columbia sounds really great, so i think that is the one to get : ) BJOERN www.cityinfonetz.de/uni/homepage/bjoern.eichstaedt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: must-haves Date: 21 Nov 1998 11:48:02 -0500 Tom Pratt wrote: > What about that Bob James Trio disc 'Explosions'! Would you ever think the guy who > composed the theme to Taxi had recorded with Barre Phillips? There's even some > adittional tapework by Gordon Mumma and Robert Ashley! I was very surprised by how > good this disc actually was. I got that disc on vinyl when I was in college, and I was always amused when someone looking for backgroundy music would put it on :-) -- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: philz <zampino@squidco.com> Subject: Re: chris cochrane Date: 21 Nov 1998 11:52:45 -0500 >i just have to start a thread concerning the merits or lack >thereof, of "bath". i am listening to it right now as i >write. i have owned it for a while now but just now fell in >love with it on the track "spit"........ gorgeous in every >way..... > that is a great track... I've seen very little about Cochrane here but I really like his records (Bath & Suck Pretty) and No Safety is my 2nd favorite band ever, very much in the Naked City mode but with (for me) a rawer edge. Does anyone know what he's up to these days? philz - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" <sunny70@sirius.com> Subject: leng t'che Date: 21 Nov 1998 11:31:13 -0800 Folks, Is "Leng T'che" worth getting for $14.95? As much as I like Naked City, I'm not totally sure about a single half-hour composition (I don't own Black Box either, and I don't know what the Melvins sound like). Any opinions? By the way, does anyone know if Zorn is performing in Japan (or will be in Japan) in the next few days? I was at the San Francisco airport, and the PA system kept calling every few minutes for a "John Zorn" to come to the Tokyo Airlines gate. Or it could have been some Asian guy named John Song... Later, Ben np: squarepusher, "music is rotted one note" http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "hijk" <hijk@gateway.net> Subject: Hemphill 6tet/Big Band Date: 21 Nov 1998 15:32:16 -0500 Did anyone else attend the Lost Jazz Shrines: Loft Jazz show last night with the Julius Hemphill sextet and the big band? When was the last time the big band played? Jeff Kent hijk@gateway.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeremy Isaac Mc Cormick <jm010f@uhura.cc.rochester.edu> Subject: what equipment does he use? Date: 21 Nov 1998 15:33:25 -0500 (EST) Hi, I'm new to this newsgroup as of a couple weeks ago. I really enjoy it and like the discussions of musicians I've never heard of, cuz then I can go check em out. I'm always game for new music. Anyways, I'm an alto saxophone player like Mr. Zorn, and I was wondering if anyone knows the mouthpiece, reed, and ligature setup he uses. I'm curious, because he gets this massive screechy tone on his high notes. He is good at doing it (making saxophone sound like runaway train-----esp. on Spy vs. Spy), but I'm sure his equipment set-up has something to do with it. K, thanks in advance. Everyone take care. ------------Jah Jeremy------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Re: leng t'che Date: 21 Nov 1998 15:55:23 -0500 At 11:31 AM 11/21/98 -0800, Benito Vergara wrote: > >Is "Leng T'che" worth getting for $14.95? As much as I like Naked City, I'm >not totally sure about a single half-hour composition (I don't own Black Box >either, and I don't know what the Melvins sound like). Any opinions? > I don't know the Melvins either, but Leng T'che is my least listened to Naked City album. If you like Eye's screaming sounds (which I don't), you may like this more than I do, as Eye is a major part of this piece, but if Eye gets on your last nerve, avoid this one. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers -- Pablo Picasso - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bobonic@westol.com (Adam MacGregor) Subject: Help! Alboth! Date: 16 Nov 1998 18:40:08 -0500 I was wondering if anyone could point me in the direction of any distro that would be able to hook me up with a copy of "Leibfield" by the swiss band Alboth! I tried Relapse records mailorder, but they sent me the wrong disc...and their label, PDCD doesn;t seem to be too swift on updating the web page at all. if you can help, please lemme know... thanks, adam bobonic@westol.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Risser <risser@goodnews.net> Subject: John Oswald Mailing List Date: 20 Nov 1998 13:33:21 -0500 Hey, For those who are interested, I finally managed to set up a John Oswald Mailing list. It's through OneList, so there are ads and stuff associated with it, but, hey, it was free and the only place I could find where I could set one up. Anyway, if you want to subscribe, there's two ways to go: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/plunderphonia or send mail to plunderphonia-subscribe@onelist.com In any case, I hope it will engender discussion on obvious stuff like, what's John up to these days, and where can I get a hold of Plunderphonics, but also, discussions on appropriated and sampled music in general. Thanks, and tell anyone you know who may be interested. Thanks! Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> Subject: WFMU Record Fair Date: 21 Nov 1998 16:54:50 -0500 Most NYC area folk may already be aware, but in case you're not, this is a fine place to locate obscure vinyl or collection gap fillers at, often, reasonable prices, if you can stand the crowds. It's continuing (I _think_) tomorrow on West 19th st between 6th & 7th Aves (I forget the exact address--closer to 6th on the South side of the block--follow the record geeks). Well worth checking out. My swag from this afternoon: Jerome Cooper The Unpredictability of Predictability Creative Constr. Co. Vol 2 David Garland Control Songs Rzewski/Braxton/Eisler No Place to Go but Around Xenakis Music Today, Vol 2 (on Angel) Stockhausen/Xenakis/ Penderecki/Posseur The New Music (on RCA Victrola) All for @ $50. Brian Olewnick NR: Harry Partch, A Biography by Bob Gilmore. Essential stuff. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: leng t'che Date: 22 Nov 1998 11:04:01 +1100 > I don't know the Melvins either, but Leng T'che is my least listened to > Naked City album. If you like Eye's screaming sounds (which I don't), you > may like this more than I do, as Eye is a major part of this piece, but if > Eye gets on your last nerve, avoid this one. Think about what the piece is about, and Eye's screaming might have a little bit more relevance. Anyway, doesn't he only come in about two-thirds of the way through the piece? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <sheepherder@uswest.net> Subject: Re: leng t'che Date: 21 Nov 1998 17:47:06 -0800 i agree... eye's contribution to Leng T'che is minimal. i enjoy frisell and baron wokring together on this dirge. although it is not an everyday listen. -patrick in portland Julian wrote: > Think about what the piece is about, and Eye's screaming might have a > little bit more relevance. > > Anyway, doesn't he only come in about two-thirds of the way through the > piece? > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Felix" <jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt> Subject: Re: leng t'che Date: 22 Nov 1998 13:56:54 +0100 Regarding Leng T'che: I have never heard that particular album. I think it's the only thing I have never heard from Naked City (except Heretic, which I never heard, too). I wonder, how is this compared to their other releases? And for those that heard Heretic, I ask the same question. Thanks Felix jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Nuovo Consonanza Date: 21 Nov 1998 10:48:47 -0500 After John Abbey's recommendation I got the Edition RZ self-titled disc of the Gruppo di Improvvisazione Nuova Consonanza and, of course, absolutely love it. I just found that there is another disc by them on Cramps called 'Musica Su Schemi'. Is this great as well? -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Nuovo Consonanza Date: 22 Nov 1998 11:35:26 EST In a message dated 11/22/98 11:07:50 AM, tpratt@smtc.net wrote: <<After John Abbey's recommendation I got the Edition RZ self-titled disc of the Gruppo di Improvvisazione Nuova Consonanza and, of course, absolutely love it. I just found that there is another disc by them on Cramps called 'Musica Su Schemi'. Is this great as well?>> yeah, it's pretty great. what I think I like even more (only heard it once so far) is the newly released Franco Evangelisti double disc retrospective on Edition RZ. Evangelisti is the leader of the Gruppo di Improvvisazione Nuova Consonanza, as you're probably aware. the only other thing available by the Gruppo (on CD, anyway) is one half of a twofer Ennio Morricone disc on Point, _Giornata Nera Per L'Ariete/Gli Occhi Freddi Della Paura_. I can't give you more details on this, as my copy is lent out, but it's pretty essential. since it's a single soundtrack, it's more cohesive than the other Gruppo on disc. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Re: leng t'che Date: 22 Nov 1998 15:05:06 -0500 At 11:04 AM 11/22/98 +1100, Julian wrote: > >Think about what the piece is about, and Eye's screaming might have a >little bit more relevance. > >Anyway, doesn't he only come in about two-thirds of the way through the >piece? Yeah, well, what the piece is about is also part of what makes me too uncomfortable about the piece. The first time I had a look at one of the pictures from that set was in one of those magazines that specializes in fairly extreme stuff, and as the picture was all grainy (although fairly good sized), I couldn't get an idea of what it was from a quick glance, so I studied it fairly closely. Quite a shock when I figured out what it was! And since I had studied it, it was firmly in my memory. I still find the pictures completely repellent, even though many artists whom I respect (not only Zorn, but Georges Bataille, who had all of them in his bureau) find them fascinating and inspiring. The only cover art that even comes close to inspiring the same discomfort was a Rip, Rig and Panic album cover with the baboon crossing the life-death boundary (but not until I learned that story either). And maybe Eye isn't on the whole thing, but I find his work so difficult to listen to for long periods that my lasting impression of this piece is his screaming. Since Felix is asking for more of a description, it probably starts with a duet between Baron and Frisell, very slow tempo (for Naked City) but very intense, loud, and funereal. As Julian points out, the soundtrack for an execution, not really like anything else NC did. Heretic is the NC players in duets and trios, so the variety comes from the different combinations. The smaller groups give this album an intimacy, almost, that none of the other have. In recent listenings to this album, I've even grown to respect what Eye does a little more (but it's in much smaller doses than LT). What I like about NC is that every album is different from every other, and even though I don't like Leng T'che, its place in their work only increases the respect I have for the group as a whole. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers -- Pablo Picasso - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" <sunny70@sirius.com> Subject: RE: leng t'che; weird little boy Date: 22 Nov 1998 13:08:57 -0800 > -----Original Message----- > From: Caleb T. Deupree [mailto:cdeupree@erinet.com] > Sent: Sunday, November 22, 1998 12:05 PM > I still find the > pictures completely repellent, even though many artists whom I > respect (not > only Zorn, but Georges Bataille, who had all of them in his bureau) find > them fascinating and inspiring. Isn't the cover reproduced in Bataille's "The Tears of Eros?" (And was it this cover that created all the furor from the Asian American groups, or was it the bondage photos from "Torture Garden?") Had the chance to pick "Leng T'che" up yesterday, but... put it back at the last minute. Thanks for the info, folks; it does sound pretty interesting though. Maybe it'll still be there (had to save some money for beer at a concert later that night)... Which brings me to something slightly off-topic: no doubt the audience at the Jad Fair / Yo La Tengo concert last night (at Slim's, in San Francisco) was taken aback when the unannounced opening act came out on stage. Yup, it was good ol' Mike Patton, with a piece for screams, guitar and turntable -- anyone know whether this was the piece he premiered with Zorn a few months back? In any case, it was pretty much the same performance as the Zorn/Patton/Lombardo concert: big shrill slabs of power-electronics, sustained guitar feedback, Patton screaming his face blue. (How does "Weird Little Boy" compare to this, by the way? It keeps turning up in the used bins now.) All right, enough questions for now. =) Later, Ben np: diamanda galas, "malediction and prayer" http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: leng t'che; weird little boy Date: 21 Nov 1998 16:16:28 -0500 Benito Vergara wrote: > Isn't the cover reproduced in Bataille's "The Tears of Eros?" (And was it > this cover that created all the furor from the Asian American groups, or was > it the bondage photos from "Torture Garden?") I believe it was both actually. > Had the chance to pick "Leng T'che" up yesterday, but... put it back at the > last minute. Thanks for the info, folks; it does sound pretty interesting > though. Maybe it'll still be there (had to save some money for beer at a > concert later that night)... If it makes any difference, the disc is out-of-print and pretty difficult to find as far as I remember. But it's in the 'Black Box' of course. I love Leng T'Che. It's one of those discs I pop in ever couple months and listen all the way through with the lights off. Freaks the shit out of me every time. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: OnionPalac@aol.com Subject: Re: leng t'che; weird little boy Date: 22 Nov 1998 17:03:02 EST In a message dated 11/22/98 9*34*52 PM, you wrote: <> It's good to hear that I am not alone! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Cassiber - Live In Tokyo Date: 21 Nov 1998 18:55:24 -0500 I recently got a copy of Cassiber's double-disc 'Live In Tokyo' and while I don't really like it very much (the Ground Zero remix is much better), I'm really confused as to what it actually *is*. Is it some sort of musical performance for a play or something theatrical? Or is this just what Cassiber did... Is there any other good Heiner Goebbels aside from 'Black On White'??? -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> Subject: Heiner Goebbels was Re: Cassiber - Live In Tokyo Date: 22 Nov 1998 19:23:30 -0500 Tom Pratt wrote: > Is there any other good Heiner Goebbels aside from 'Black On White'??? I would tend to use the term 'good', not great, but most of the Goebbels I've heard has at least something to recommend it. Worth hearing, IMHO, are: Goebbels Heart Eva The Man in the Elevator ECM (Some great Don Cherry work) Shadow/Landscape w/ Argonauts " (fun use of street convers.) Ou bien le debarquement... " Haven't heard anything more recent. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <sheepherder@uswest.net> Subject: david murray/dragon blue Date: 22 Nov 1998 16:36:23 -0800 i was hoping someone could describe david murray's DIW releases. my local store had about 5 of them (tin cup? maybe...plus others) and i am thinking about picking one up. but at 21.99 i like to know a little about what it is im buying unless it is on the Avant imprint. i buy anything on Avant without hesitation....i just picked up Philip Johnston's Big Trouble today, excellent..... also got new Ruins "Vrresto", Frith/Ribot "Subsonic: Sounds of a Distant Episode", and DNA (avant release with Mori, Hayward, Lindsay). OH!!!! does Dragon Blue have any other albums than the Avant release??? thanks, patrick in portland - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vlad-Drac@webtv.net (Theo Klaase) Subject: Bill Frisell Date: 22 Nov 1998 21:03:12 -0600 (CST) "Before we were born" What an amazing album. All hail Joey Baron too. }Theodorus-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FJG_Lamerikx <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> Subject: Re: leng t'che Date: 23 Nov 1998 08:33:42 +0100 (MET) [Leng Tch'e] > If it makes any difference, the disc is out-of-print and pretty difficult to > find as far as I remember. But it's in the 'Black Box' of course. Given that it was released on the Japanese Toy's Factory label, I don't think it is out of print. Japanese releases rarely go out of print, since they just accumulate orders and re-press when the demand is high enough. Also, on a fairly recent visit to Disk Union in Tokyo, I saw it still sitting in their bins (as well as the Toy's Factory version of Torture Garden - I even saw that one used for $6). It might be very expensive to order it from Disk Union, though. I remember getting my copy for about $30 a couple of years ago. When I first got it, Leng Tch'e was my absolute favorite Naked City album. It was the first time I ever heard a composition cross the 30-minute border (a strange feat, looking at my collection today). I really like the way the piece develops, the long drawn-out sounds, the bashing, and then gradually Zorn and Eye coming in to take the piece to frantic heights. I still love it today, although I think my current favorite would be Grand Guignol. And what about the "new" Naked City tracks on the Music For Children CD? The band Prelapse are given good renditions, but somehow they don't capture the magic of the original Naked City line-up. There's something in the production that doesn't click. Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Schelfhout" <s_tim@hotmail.com> Subject: Ribot scores Date: 23 Nov 1998 01:03:22 PST Hey there, Anyone out there who knows where to find Ribot tabs (or notes!) on the net (specifically of his latest Cubanos Postizos project)or even a mailing list ? Thanks Tim Schelfhout ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <sheepherder@uswest.net> Subject: Re: leng t'che Date: 23 Nov 1998 01:17:42 -0800 can someone tell me abouyt this new music for children release. this is not the gary lucas album is it???? "new"? naked city tracks.....i am very interested. please inform me on how to find this. -patrick in portland > And what about the "new" Naked City tracks on the Music For Children CD? > The band Prelapse are given good renditions, but somehow they don't capture > the magic of the original Naked City line-up. There's something in the > production that doesn't click. > > Frankco. > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Re: Cassiber - Live In Tokyo Date: 23 Nov 1998 06:32:37 -0500 At 06:55 PM 11/21/98 -0500, Tom Pratt wrote: >I recently got a copy of Cassiber's double-disc 'Live In Tokyo' and >while I don't really like it very much (the Ground Zero remix is much >better), I'm really confused as to what it actually *is*. Is it some >sort of musical performance for a play or something theatrical? Or is >this just what Cassiber did... Cassiber's studio work is, IMHO, much better than the live performance recorded on that album. Supposedly they brought texts to the studio and then improvised over the texts, but the live album sounds pretty much like most of the corresponding studio pieces, so I dunno... -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers -- Pablo Picasso - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DRoyko@aol.com Subject: Ayler/Slugs "Paul Is Dead" Date: 23 Nov 1998 11:37:18 EST I don't have the official ESP versions of Ayler's Slug's stuff. My versions are those MusicMagic (or MagicMusic, or whatever they call themselves) CDs, one called Truth is Marching In and the other is Black Unity or something along those lines, they're at home and I'm not. As has already been mentioned, the sound is terrible, and I don't assume that the ESP versions are significantly better (they'd have to be from an altogether different source). It's a pretty sure bet that the boot versions are simply mastered from some version of the ESP LPs (for all I know, the BASE reissues). The weird thing about these recordings, though, is that at some point what is heard is the tape being played backwards. The chaotic quality of much of this music and the dismal sound conspire to make the backward passages less noticable than they might otherwise be, but there's no doubt that that is what I'm hearing. Anyone else ever notice this? Personally, I'll take the end of Strawberry Fields as an example of this phenomenon any day. . . Dave Royko - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DRoyko@aol.com Subject: Ayler/Slugs "Paul Is Dead" Date: 23 Nov 1998 11:37:19 EST I don't have the official ESP versions of Ayler's Slug's stuff. My versions are those MusicMagic (or MagicMusic, or whatever they call themselves) CDs, one called Truth is Marching In and the other is Black Unity or something along those lines, they're at home and I'm not. As has already been mentioned, the sound is terrible, and I don't assume that the ESP versions are significantly better (they'd have to be from an altogether different source). It's a pretty sure bet that the boot versions are simply mastered from some version of the ESP LPs (for all I know, the BASE reissues). The weird thing about these recordings, though, is that at some point what is heard is the tape being played backwards. The chaotic quality of much of this music and the dismal sound conspire to make the backward passages less noticable than they might otherwise be, but there's no doubt that that is what I'm hearing. Anyone else ever notice this? Personally, I'll take the end of Strawberry Fields as an example of this phenomenon any day. . . Dave Royko - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: APoesia794@aol.com Subject: good ol' mike patton Date: 23 Nov 1998 12:40:04 EST > Yup, it > was good ol' Mike Patton, with a piece for screams, guitar and turntable -- > anyone know whether this was the piece he premiered with Zorn a few months > back? In any case, it was pretty much the same performa as the > Zorn/Patton/Lombardo concert: big shrill slabs of power-electronics, > sustained guitar feedback, Patton screaming his face blue. who else was involved in this piece? who played guitar and who was on the turntables? patton has premiered a few pieces within the past months. he premiered feedback etudes at the knitting factory in march (i believe) and another piece for small ensemble entitled "peeping tom" at the victo festival. and then there was another piece maybe the day before or after the patton/lombardo/zorn show entitled something like "phono sanjo". is this the piece you are speaking of? anyhow does anyone have a copy of the zorn/lombardo/patton show,the phono sanjo (?) piece or the piece he premiered at this recent yo la tengo show? also it seems that a good portion of the members on this list don't really care for patton's work. any comments? thanks peace jt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" <sunny70@sirius.com> Subject: RE: good ol' mike patton Date: 23 Nov 1998 10:27:37 -0800 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of > APoesia794@aol.com > Sent: Monday, November 23, 1998 9:40 AM > who else was involved in this piece? who played guitar and who was on the > turntables? I'm afraid I don't know; Patton wasn't even introduced or announced, he just came up on stage. Physical descriptions, then: the turntablist was a heavy-set guy with curly black hair; the guitarist was an Asian guy wearing an allergy mask. I don't know if this was a new piece; I seem to remember that Phono Sanjo may have been for voice and turntable as well (I wasn't there). Someone posted a great review of the Xu Feng / Phono Sanjo date on this list previously... Speaking of physical appearances (with all due respect), I had no idea Jad Fair was starting to look like Charles Nelson Reilly! =) Those old photos of him as a skinny geek are clearly outdated... Later, Ben np: portishead, "roseland nyc live" http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson <wlt4@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: pizzolla redux Date: 23 Nov 1998 13:45:21 -0500 >The three records are _Tango: Zero Hour_, _The Rough Dancer and the Cyclical >Night_, and _La Camorra: La Soledad de la Provocacion Apasionada_. Easily the >best Piazzolla records, I've heard, especially Tango. And "Tango Zero Hour" was just reissued by Nonesuch in the past month or two. I also highly recommend the live album on Hemisphere though I can never remember the title. LT Lang Thompson http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4 New at the Funhouse website: Did Elvis Steal Rock 'n' Roll?, The X-Files Movie Bites!, music reviews - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vlad-Drac@webtv.net (Theo Klaase) Subject: WHY ZORN IS ZORN Date: 23 Nov 1998 13:31:28 -0600 (CST) No great creator (musician, scientific, etc.) was prompted by a desire to please his fellow man. His truth was his only motive. His work was his only goal. His creation; not the benefits others derived from it. Zorn holds his truth against all things and against all men. He went ahead whether others agreed with him or not, with his integrity as his only banner. He served nothing and no one. He lived for himself and only by living for himself was he able to conceive of the things which are the glory of his music and man. Such is the nature of achievement. Man's Brain is his only weapon. The mind is an atribute of the individual - there is no such thing as a collective mind. This is why Naked City works. (Zappa too, among others) It's brought under the vision of one man. Zorn thinks, and thinks on his own. The reasoning mind cannot be subordinated to the needs, opionions, or wishes of others. Zorn stands on his own Judgement, the "pop star" or parasite follows the opinions of others. Zorn creates, the parasite copies. Zorn produces much work while the parasite loots. Zorn's is the conquest of nature, the parasite, the conquest of man. The Creator (Zorn) requires independence, he doesn't serve or rule, he wishes to deal with musician's by free exchange and voluntary choice. In other words he has terms and at the same time he respects the musicians terms. }Theodorus-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: cover art, sound quality (was something about Leng Tche) Date: 23 Nov 1998 15:13:00 -0500 (EST) > The only cover art that even comes close > to inspiring the same discomfort was a Rip, Rig and Panic album cover with > the baboon crossing the life-death boundary (but not until I learned that > story either). There's a pretty nasty cover, maybe not as disturbing as these (?) in the November new releases section at Forced Exposure (www.forcedexposure.com). Can't remember the band name, but if you scroll through I guarantee you'll know what I'm talking about. > The weird thing about these recordings, though, is that at some point what is > heard is the tape being played backwards. The chaotic quality of much of this > music and the dismal sound conspire to make the backward passages less > noticable than they might otherwise be, but there's no doubt that that is what > I'm hearing. Anyone else ever notice this? Personally, I'll take the end of > Strawberry Fields as an example of this phenomenon any day. . . I notice all sorts of screwed-up stuff every time I listen to Julius Hemphill's _Reflections_, which is definatley off of a record and not even a good one. This one is being cut out and I still think its worth getting, especially for the price and considering it might not be in print for awhile, but what would it take for someone to reissue those Arista/Freedom CDs properly (aside from Cecil Taylor's Nefertiti)? Uggh. WY - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GoonMonger@aol.com Subject: Re: good ol' mike patton Date: 23 Nov 1998 15:49:09 EST In a message dated 11/23/98 1:44:27 PM, APoesia794@aol.com wrote: >also it seems that a good portion of the members on this list don't really >care for patton's work. any comments? thanks I hate his guts...ha ha ha. LEVI GoonMonger@aol.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: good ol' mike patton Date: 23 Nov 1998 17:25:31 -0500 (EST) In terms of Patton, the members of this list probably "don't care for him" because his "non-rock" work seems way to have been created in an attempt to go above his musical talents. It seems to me we had a discussion about it around the time of his (and Zorn's) appearance at this year's FIMAV. Briefly Zorn's "classical" piece at Victo seemed to be a pastiche of a variety of modern composers. Patton's, with nearly the same personnel seemed to be a pastiche of a pastiche. Zorn's work with Mori (on turntable) and Patton (on "vocals[sic] and turntable), was mixed. Mori was interesting, Zorn's work on alto saxophone hair raising and Patton seemed to be noise-making to keep up. His other piece with an endless bank of amplifiers magnifying his screams was just irritating and offensive. It wasn't music, per se and it wasn't much else either. And before someone climbs on a high horse and accuses me to being anti-noise music or some such, let me rely some of my background. I've heard and appreciated "Ascension", works by Cecil Taylor and Albert Ayler and Zorn. I've seen and enjoyed David S. Ware, Charles Gayle, Prima Materi, Archie Shepp in the 1960sa and the Little Huey Ork; I was impressed when I saw the Soft Machine in 1968 and with the original Sex Pistols tunes, "19th Nervous Breakdown", "Brainwashed", the early Mothers of Invention's "outside" experiments and in 1967 sat right in front of Eric Clapton's amp when I saw Cream in a small NY club. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: goHarry@webtv.net (Harry Hulsizer) Subject: RE: good ol' mike patton Date: 23 Nov 1998 17:33:08 -0500 (EST) --WebTV-Mail-808693362-940 Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Sounds like the guitarist from Melt Banana. Don`t know about the dj though. David Shea maybe? --WebTV-Mail-808693362-940 Content-Disposition: Inline Content-Type: Message/RFC822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit Received: from mailsorter-101.iap.bryant.webtv.net (209.240.198.91) by postoffice-131.iap.bryant.webtv.net; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:38:11 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: <owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com> Received: from lists.xmission.com (lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7]) by mailsorter-101.iap.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.graham.14Aug97) with ESMTP id KAA15696; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:38:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 2.04 #1) id 0zi0qD-0007hO-00 for zorn-list-goout@lists.xmission.com; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:36:05 -0700 Received: from [205.134.253.132] (helo=mail2.sirius.com) by lists.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 2.04 #1) id 0zi0qA-0007h9-00 for zorn-list@lists.xmission.com; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 11:36:02 -0700 Received: from sunny70 (ppp-sfx201--131.sirius.net [205.134.235.131]) by mail2.sirius.com (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA12710 for <zorn-list@lists.xmission.com>; Mon, 23 Nov 1998 10:35:59 -0800 (PST) Reply-To: <sunny70@sirius.com> Message-ID: <000001be170e$f299cfa0$83eb86cd@sunny70.sirius.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 8.5, Build 4.71.2232.26 In-Reply-To: <da143dea.36599df4@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Importance: Normal Sender: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of > APoesia794@aol.com > Sent: Monday, November 23, 1998 9:40 AM > who else was involved in this piece? who played guitar and who was on the > turntables? I'm afraid I don't know; Patton wasn't even introduced or announced, he just came up on stage. Physical descriptions, then: the turntablist was a heavy-set guy with curly black hair; the guitarist was an Asian guy wearing an allergy mask. I don't know if this was a new piece; I seem to remember that Phono Sanjo may have been for voice and turntable as well (I wasn't there). Someone posted a great review of the Xu Feng / Phono Sanjo date on this list previously... Speaking of physical appearances (with all due respect), I had no idea Jad Fair was starting to look like Charles Nelson Reilly! =) Those old photos of him as a skinny geek are clearly outdated... Later, Ben np: portishead, "roseland nyc live" http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - --WebTV-Mail-808693362-940-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: good ol' mike patton Date: 23 Nov 1998 17:39:41 EST In a message dated 11/23/98 5:27:23 PM, cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca wrote: <<His other piece with an endless bank of amplifiers magnifying his screams was just irritating and offensive. It wasn't music, per se and it wasn't much else either.>> I didn't like it much either, but I really was into it for the first five or ten minutes. the problem is that it was an attempt to make noise a la Merzbow or Masonna, but with nowhere near the range of ideas that those musicians have in their best work. <<And before someone climbs on a high horse and accuses me to being anti-noise music or some such, let me rely some of my background. I've heard and appreciated "Ascension", works by Cecil Taylor and Albert Ayler and Zorn. I've seen and enjoyed David S. Ware, Charles Gayle, Prima Materi, Archie Shepp in the 1960sa and the Little Huey Ork; I was impressed when I saw the Soft Machine in 1968 and with the original Sex Pistols tunes, "19th Nervous Breakdown", "Brainwashed", the early Mothers of Invention's "outside" experiments and in 1967 sat right in front of Eric Clapton's amp when I saw Cream in a small NY club.>> none of this is noise, though, and none of it is more than very indirectly related to what Patton was, albeit very poorly, trying to do. on a medium-sized horse, Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Felix" <jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt> Subject: Re: good ol' mike patton Date: 23 Nov 1998 22:01:07 +0100 >also it seems that a good portion of the members on this list don't really >care for patton's work. any comments? thanks >peace >jt Well, I don't really know his work, as he seems to improvise alot on stage but never get things on studio. What I know of him (besides FNM, obviously, which I don't like) makes me think of him with high regard. He is maybe a little pretentious in his music, but aren't they all? MIKE PATTON: PRANZO OLTRANZISTA - A good album with a good concept. A bunch of stars (Friedlander, Winant, Zorn, and Ribot(?)), playing good experimental. Doesn't blow my mind, but it's still a good listen. WEIRD LITTLE BOY - This has to be one of the most controverse albums discussed on this list (I remember even Trey Spruance wrote to the list once explaining his rantings about the album). It features Mike Patton, Zorn, Spruance, Winant and Chris Cochrane, but Patton's job in the albums is quite indefinite. I still like it. I guess he's the one whistling in the title track. JOHN ZORN: ELEGY - Patton participates butdoesn't take an active roll. His screams in the end of the third track simply give me chills, and I think I never heard nobody scream like that, not even Y. Eye. MR BUNGLE - simply beautiful. MR. BUNGLE: DISCO VOLANTE - one of the best records I have ever heard. I think that's all I know. Considering specially the last two and the first, I think I can consider Mike Patton a fairly good composer. Felix jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vlad-Drac@webtv.net (Theo Klaase) Subject: WHY ZORN IS ZORN Date: 23 Nov 1998 17:53:42 -0600 (CST) A friend reminded me that I forgot to mention that I paraphrased alot of what I wrote from a speech taken from a book called "the Fountainhead" by Ayn Rand. I find Zorn is a real life Howard Roark. }Theodorus-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: suebob@mindspring.com (bob burnett) Subject: leng t'che etc. Date: 23 Nov 1998 19:48:45 -0400 The leng t'che prompts this question: Can someone tell me about "Absinthe"? I read a brief review of it describing it as "dark". As a matter of fact, I know very little about the Naked City/Torture Garden side of Zorn's work (I have the Elektra cd only) and would appreciate a tutorial. Thanks. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "ADM" <ameyers@concentric.net> Subject: Re: good ol' mike patton Date: 23 Nov 1998 17:40:30 -0800 I don't think it could've been the guitarist from Melt Banana. They played here a little more than a week ago and were going back to Japan after leaving the Bay Area/California. I saw Phono Sanjo in September and it was Patton (voice), Winant (percussion), and a third member whose name I don't recall on turntables. Anyway... no guitar in Phono Sanjo. BTW... It'd be strange for David Shea to come all the way into S.F. and not be on the bill or anything. -Aaron -----Original Message----- Sounds like the guitarist from Melt Banana. Don`t know about the dj though. David Shea maybe? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christian Heslop" <xian@mbay.net> Subject: Re: leng t'che etc. Date: 23 Nov 1998 17:50:27 -0800 Absinthe is a fantastic album. I don't have it here with me as I have loaned it to someone. That and the fact that I have not owned it for very long precludes me from giving you a more specific review. Knowing a little about the story of Tom Verlaine and Baudelaire actually did seem to enhance my interpretation of this music. Perhaps more in a way that I projected. It's a great album but perhaps not particularly representative of the rest of the Naked City work. Much of Absinthe is more eerily pastoral than one would expect of the Naked City crew. A good album to start with would be "The Grand Guignol". I am however speaking from a position of relative ignorance as these plus the Elektra album are the only Naked City albums that I own. I would like to hear other recommendations. ---------- > From: bob burnett <suebob@mindspring.com> > To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Subject: leng t'che etc. > Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 3:48 PM > > The leng t'che prompts this question: > > Can someone tell me about "Absinthe"? I read a brief review of it > describing it as "dark". As a matter of fact, I know very little about the > Naked City/Torture Garden side of Zorn's work (I have the Elektra cd only) > and would appreciate a tutorial. > > Thanks. > > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: Re: leng t'che etc. Date: 24 Nov 1998 03:09:29 +0100 >about the story of Tom Verlaine and Baudelaire actually did seem to enhance Paul Verlaine. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: suebob@mindspring.com (bob burnett) Subject: Re: leng t'che etc. Date: 23 Nov 1998 21:39:02 -0400 At 5:50 PM 11/23/98, Christian Heslop wrote: >Absinthe is a fantastic album. BB>>>Thanks-that's just what I was hoping to hear-it was listed as a Naked City release in an online catalog. I had no idea it had any relation to Verlaine (and maybe Rimbaud instead of Baudelaire?). That makes it essential! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christian Heslop" <xian@mbay.net> Subject: Re: leng t'che etc. Date: 23 Nov 1998 18:44:06 -0800 Thanks.It's been awhile.I should just insist that you're wrong and start a thread of people attempting to prove me wrong. I'll igonore and continue to insist until I'm banned. Looking at your message I anticipate that you will receive a stern lecture from Mr. Rizzi. I always forget to clip msgs that I reply to. If you had replied privately I wouldn't have to write a public acknowledgment and then lengthen it to avoid a reprimand. This is so terribly complicated.... ; ) I really hate those things but I manage to offend people when I don't use them ---------- > From: Benjamin Pequet <pequet@altern.org> > To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: leng t'che etc. > Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 6:09 PM > > >about the story of Tom Verlaine and Baudelaire actually did seem to enhance > > Paul Verlaine. > > > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christian Heslop" <xian@mbay.net> Subject: Re: leng t'che etc. Date: 23 Nov 1998 18:48:23 -0800 Alright, I really may have messed this one up...When I said I knew a little about the story I really did mean a very terribly small amount. All I did was see an absolutely horrible film called "Total Eclipse" that covered the affair of "Paul or Tom" Verlaine and "Somebody I guess I don't remember". I'm so embarassed. Don't see the movie...it has Leo DiCaprio in it, but he does do some buggering! ---------- > From: bob burnett <suebob@mindspring.com> > To: Christian Heslop <xian@mbay.net> > Cc: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Re: leng t'che etc. > Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 5:39 PM > > At 5:50 PM 11/23/98, Christian Heslop wrote: > >Absinthe is a fantastic album. > > > BB>>>Thanks-that's just what I was hoping to hear-it was listed as a Naked > City release in an online catalog. I had no idea it had any relation to > Verlaine (and maybe Rimbaud instead of Baudelaire?). That makes it > essential! > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" <sunny70@sirius.com> Subject: RE: good ol' mike patton Date: 23 Nov 1998 18:48:33 -0800 > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Ken Waxman > Sent: Monday, November 23, 1998 2:26 PM > His other piece with an endless bank of amplifiers magnifying his screams > was just irritating and offensive. It wasn't music, per se and it wasn't > much else either. > > And before someone climbs on a high horse and accuses me to being > anti-noise music or some such, let me rely some of my background. Not to accuse you of anything, but the folks you've cited "aren't noise enough;" I think Patton is trying to achieve something like what Whitehouse, Merzbow and other (mostly Japanese) noise artists do. But somehow the music from the last two Patton concerts I've seen haven't been as, um, textured? I don't know; it's kind of hard to describe Masami Akita's layering of cacophony, or the density (if not relentless monotony) of Aube's compositions. Patton's stuff just seems more random and on-the-fly somehow. Actually, what I enjoyed most from that Zorn/Patton/Lombardo concert was Lombardo's drumming... Later, Ben http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: Re: leng t'che etc. Date: 24 Nov 1998 03:59:28 +0100 Maybe in the movie with di caprio they translated the name of Verlaine. Sorry. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stila <golgi@sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #533 <good ol' Mike Patton> Date: 23 Nov 1998 22:06:23 -0500 Ummmmmm.... in regards to Patton's entourage at slim's-- I'm sure it was the guitarist from Melt Banana. I would presume the dude on turntables to be a member of the Skratch Piklz but..... that's just a guess........... stila. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David J. Strauss" <djs2852@is.nyu.edu> Subject: Ayler @ Slugs Date: 23 Nov 1998 22:15:33 -0500 (EST) Concerning the various configurations of the Ayler @ Slugs material: There's a German semi-legit single disc that contains both LPs worth of material in order, I believe, with liner notes by Peter Brotzman. It's called In Memory of Albert Ayler, or something similar. Picked it up in a Prague meat shop for $3. DS djs2852@is.nyu.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christian Heslop" <xian@mbay.net> Subject: Re: leng t'che etc. Date: 23 Nov 1998 19:54:50 -0800 This whole Verlaine thing has really gotten out of hand. For anyone who may have seen my response to Benjamin's HELPFUL correction-I'm sorry, I was being ironic. It was just a little self-mocking humour at the gaffe that I made.I'm very sorry that anyone took me seriously. I even put one of those silly little smiley faces on the end of the message as a safety measure. I apparently can not express myself well through msg format. That's understandable, I'm learning Korean right now in an immersive program and have been told by my instructors (all natives) that I might be too sarcastic for Koreans. Which brings me to Pansori music- I just heard some of this today and remembered an earlier thread on Pansori. Interesting stuff- very unique sounds. Give it a try. ---------- > From: Benjamin Pequet <pequet@altern.org> > To: xian@mbay.net > Subject: Re: leng t'che etc. > Date: Monday, November 23, 1998 7:29 PM > 1. I tell you not to embarass you but because you might care to know > 2. I would never dare now post this on the list, though I find this more > relevant to the list than for example who some guitarist with an allergy > mask could or might maybe possibly have been. > > Sincerely, Benjamin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: cover art, sound quality (was something about Leng Tche) Date: 23 Nov 1998 23:47:31 -0500 William York wrote: > but what would it take for someone to reissue those > Arista/Freedom CDs properly (aside from Cecil Taylor's Nefertiti)? Owners of master tapes who gave a damn about the product they foisted upon the market? You wouldn't believe what Revenant had to go through to get "Nefertiti," and to make it as great as it is. And then D.A. had the nerve to release half the material domestically as "Trance" this year anyway. Tim Berne and I have been unsuccessfully attempting to get "Dogon A.D." from D.A. for a few years now. The sad thing is that some of the early D.A. Freedom transfers, like Ayler's "Vibrations" and Taylor's "Silent Tongues," are actually pretty nice. Dont' know where things started going south, or why. But it's a damn sorry way to treat one of the more important catalogs. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FJG_Lamerikx <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> Subject: Re: good ol' mike patton Date: 24 Nov 1998 08:21:59 +0100 (MET) I didn't think I would ever read a comment like this on the Zorn list: > It wasn't music, per se and it wasn't much else either. Anyway, I think Patton is having a hard time because, obviously, he comes from a rock background, having played in FNM for so many years (and FNM is not to be taken seriously by avant-gardists and jazz snobs alike, right?). However, his work with Mr. Bungle, especially on the second album (and a third being recorded at this moment), should give him a lot of credit. Also, remember he stood in for Eye on the Naked City European tour of '91? To me it seems that Patton is really trying (too) hard to be part of the whole circle around Zorn. He needs to grow a bit in his new role. However, his previous two attempts on Tzadik both were worthwhile, in my opinion, especially the "ADULT THEMES", which is a marvellous collection of vocal experimentations. Also, he's proven to be a fairly good arrangeur, given his work on the Great Jewish Music albums. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt, and just wait and see what happens. I heard from William Winant that the Patton/Winant/Lombardo trio was going to record a Zorn piece for Tzadik, and that the Winant/Patton duo were recording a CD for Tzadik as well. Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Corey Marc Fogel <mecorey@imap3.asu.edu> Subject: Re: WHY ZORN IS ZORN Date: 24 Nov 1998 02:53:03 -0700 (MST) you spelled attribute incorrectly - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net> Subject: Re: WHY ZORN IS ZORN Date: 24 Nov 1998 07:54:31 -0300 Corey Marc Fogel wrote: > > you spelled attribute incorrectly > > - You forgot to capitalize your "Y" and put a period at the end of your sentence. Also, I'd be interested in hearing everyone's take on the Sonny Clark Memorial disc. Also, does anyone have any quotes or references from Zorn on his use of violent imagery? I "like" it, appreciate the "edge," but wonder what his reasoning is on this. Thanks, and watch those typing errors, RL -- Marilyn Crispell, Susie Ibarra, Sam Rivers, Matthew Shipp, David S. Ware, and Reggie Workman discographies--Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things--Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL--etc., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k ***Very Various Music For Sale: ***http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: suebob@mindspring.com (bob burnett) Subject: Re: leng t'che etc. Date: 24 Nov 1998 08:23:41 -0400 >I'm so embarassed. Don't see the movie...it has Leo DiCaprio in it, but he >does do some buggering! BB>>>>Hey-no big deal at all-you steered me right by giving me the Absinthe review! I have a friend who informs me leo DeCaprio's naked backside is a highly coveted gay internet acquisition! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "hijk" <hijk@gateway.net> Subject: RE: DiCaprio, sorry Date: 24 Nov 1998 08:42:33 -0500 Heard last night that Leo will star in the Chet Baker Movie... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: noise? Date: 24 Nov 1998 09:31:39 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 23 Nov 1998 JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > <<And before someone climbs on a high horse and accuses me to being > anti-noise music or some such, let me rely some of my background. I've > heard and appreciated "Ascension", works by Cecil Taylor and Albert > Ayler and Zorn. I've seen and enjoyed David S. Ware, Charles Gayle, Prima > Materi, Archie Shepp in the 1960sa and the Little Huey Ork; I was > impressed when I saw the Soft Machine in 1968 and with the original > Sex Pistols tunes, "19th Nervous Breakdown", "Brainwashed", the early > Mothers of Invention's "outside" experiments and in 1967 sat right in > front of Eric Clapton's amp when I saw Cream in a small NY club.>> > > none of this is noise, though, and none of it is more than very indirectly > related to what Patton was, albeit very poorly, trying to do. sounds like semantics to me. where do you think noise came from? b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: dogon a.d. Date: 24 Nov 1998 09:49:46 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Steve Smith wrote: > Tim Berne and I have been unsuccessfully attempting to get "Dogon A.D." > from D.A. for a few years now. i've got a copy of this on the mbari label. i assumed that hemphill put it out himself, so how did they get the master tapes? b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: noise? Date: 24 Nov 1998 10:25:37 EST In a message dated 11/24/98 9:34:20 AM, bburton@CapAccess.org wrote: <<sounds like semantics to me. where do you think noise came from?>> while there may be some superficial similarities with the wilder stretches of bands like the Velvet Underground, Destroy All Monsters, and the Stooges, I don't think that there's any sort of direct link between acts like Merzbow and Masonna and the rock tradition. Albert Ayler and Charles Gayle can be traced back in some ways to Charlie Parker and Lester Young, I suppose, but appreciating one of the latter doesn't necessarily help you understand what Ayler or Gayle is trying to do. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: noise? Date: 24 Nov 1998 11:05:51 -0500 (EST) On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > while there may be some superficial similarities with the wilder stretches of > bands like the Velvet Underground, Destroy All Monsters, and the Stooges, I > don't think that there's any sort of direct link between acts like Merzbow and > Masonna and the rock tradition. Albert Ayler and Charles Gayle can be traced > back in some ways to Charlie Parker and Lester Young, I suppose, but > appreciating one of the latter doesn't necessarily help you understand what > Ayler or Gayle is trying to do. 1) if it weren't for coltrane's "ascension" and other similar sonic experiments (like amp feedback), there wouldn't be any context for anything like merzbow or whitehouse. those guys learned noise from the cacophony of free improvisation and they too traffic in free improvisation. merzbow's great and all, but he's not unprecedented. actually, in a recent wire interview with merzbow, he explained how his musical mode of operation was derived from hearing hendrix's noise-damaged guitar solos. merzbow wanted to isolate that singular aspect of hendrix's music and expand on it. i would say that that is a pretty direct link to the rock tradition. 2) an entirely different subject, but i think that an appreciation of jazz lineage (for example: charlie parker > ornette coleman > john coltrane > albert ayler) helps to explicate the logic of ayler and the post-ayler saxophonists. ayler didn't create in a vacuum and he was very influenced by the jazz which preceded him. just because ayler dispensed with many of the conventions doesn't mean that the conventions didn't inspire him. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: RE: DiCaprio, sorry Date: 24 Nov 1998 11:15:54 -0500 (EST) Sounds perfect. He can't play the trumpet or sing either. As for acting ... Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, hijk wrote: > Heard last night that Leo will star in the Chet Baker Movie... > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: dogon a.d. Date: 24 Nov 1998 11:20:40 -0500 (EST) The original tapes were sold (leased?) to Freedom in the mid-1970s and "Dogon A.D." came out as an LP on Arista/Freedom, which I own. Considering the length of it and "Coon Bid'Ness" (the original non-PC name for the "Reflections" sesion), why doesn't someone (Steve?) combine them both on a single CD with new notes etc. One of my many suggestions Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, Brent Burton wrote: > On Mon, 23 Nov 1998, Steve Smith wrote: > > > Tim Berne and I have been unsuccessfully attempting to get "Dogon A.D." > > from D.A. for a few years now. > > i've got a copy of this on the mbari label. i assumed that hemphill put > it out himself, so how did they get the master tapes? > > b > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: WHY ZORN IS ZORN Date: 24 Nov 1998 08:26:02 -0800 On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 07:54:31 -0300 Rick Lopez wrote: > > Also, I'd be interested in hearing everyone's take on the Sonny Clark > Memorial disc. Also, does anyone have any quotes or references from > Zorn on his use of violent imagery? I "like" it, appreciate the > "edge," but wonder what his reasoning is on this. It is one of the signs that prove John's honesty. John has been pissed for years at how misleading ads and packagings are. For example, you buy a can of cat food with the picture of a cat on it and you would expect that it is food made out of cats for cannibal cats. Of course, you know that it is not the case. Because of this sad situation of misleading consummers (that we all know are the most important thing in the USA), John decided to use for his records graphic designs that would not mislead potential records buyers. By seeing some S/M pictures on a record, a new-age amateur would unlikely buy the product; with some torture scenes, it is unlikely that the record would end up entertaining bachelor pad parties. Less confusion and a higher consummer satisfaction, this is all what John was looking for. As you see, it is as simple as that. Patrice (always happy to help). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: noise? Date: 24 Nov 1998 08:31:59 -0800 On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 11:05:51 -0500 (EST) Brent Burton wrote: > > 1) if it weren't for coltrane's "ascension" and other similar sonic ^^^^^^^^^^^^^ There would be no ASCENSION without FREE JAZZ. Also, MICROPHONY > experiments (like amp feedback), there wouldn't be any context for > anything like merzbow or whitehouse. those guys learned noise from > the cacophony of free improvisation and they too traffic in free Not sure about that. Jazz is there definitely for the improvisation element (that kind of disappeared from classical music), but I would expect more from the following: Varese's interpolations from DESERTS (1954) Stockhausen's MICROPHONIES (1966?) Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: WHY ZORN IS ZORN Date: 24 Nov 1998 10:33:28 -0600 (CST) On Tue, 24 Nov 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > It is one of the signs that prove John's honesty. John has been pissed for > years at how misleading ads and packagings are. For example, you buy a can of > cat food with the picture of a cat on it and you would expect that it is food > made out of cats for cannibal cats. Of course, you know that it is not the > case. Because of this sad situation of misleading consummers (that we all > know are the most important thing in the USA), John decided to use for his > records graphic designs that would not mislead potential records buyers. By > seeing some S/M pictures on a record, a new-age amateur would unlikely buy the > product; with some torture scenes, it is unlikely that the record would end > up entertaining bachelor pad parties. Less confusion and a higher consummer > satisfaction, this is all what John was looking for. As you see, it is as > simple as that. Hmm... and "Music for Children" is truth in packaging ?-) - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Troy Whitfield <twhitfie@chem.bu.edu> Subject: Zorn Packaging Date: 24 Nov 1998 12:18:01 -0500 Patrice Roussel wrote: > It [Zorn cover art] is one of the signs that prove > John's honesty. John has been pissed for years at how > misleading ads and packagings are. Why not print representative sections of the score on the cover then? That should be less ambiguous (but probably less interesting) than Man Ray photographs etc.. I'm not being completely serious, of course. Honesty just seems like a less credible rationale for ones choice of cover art than say, taste. Troy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: noise? Date: 24 Nov 1998 12:18:13 EST hmmm, it seems like a partial retraction is in order from me. <<actually, in a recent wire interview with merzbow, he explained how his musical mode of operation was derived from hearing hendrix's noise-damaged guitar solos. merzbow wanted to isolate that singular aspect of hendrix's music and expand on it. i would say that that is a pretty direct link to the rock tradition.>> looking up this article (May '97), Mr. Akita is in fact quoted as saying "In my mind Merzbow is my deconstruction of rock music, a mixing of the only extreme part. I felt there were no records which solely consisted of the guitar-destroying part of The Who or Jimi Hendrix, the ending noise coda of "21st Century Schizoid Man", the feedback guitar music of The Stooges, the violent knife performance of Keith Emerson." so, there you go. my initial point remains, though, which is that Patton was attempting to perform in the style of Merzbow and/or Masonna and needs to be judged on those terms. <<an entirely different subject, but i think that an appreciation of jazz lineage (for example: charlie parker > ornette coleman > john coltrane > albert ayler) helps to explicate the logic of ayler and the post-ayler saxophonists. ayler didn't create in a vacuum and he was very influenced by the jazz which preceded him. just because ayler dispensed with many of the conventions doesn't mean that the conventions didn't inspire him.>> agreed. what I said was "Albert Ayler and Charles Gayle can be traced back in some ways to Charlie Parker and Lester Young, I suppose, but appreciating one of the latter doesn't necessarily help you understand what Ayler or Gayle is trying to do." my main point here is that there's at least one level of derivation between rock music and the wack noise piece that Patton performed at Victo, as there is between Charlie Parker and Albert Ayler. having heard the earlier musician doesn't necessarily give you a clear idea of what the latter is trying to do, without knowing about the intervening layers. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Martens <ericmartens@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: leng t'che etc. Date: 24 Nov 1998 09:24:45 -0800 (PST) ---Christian Heslop <xian@mbay.net> wrote: >All I did > was see an absolutely horrible film called "Total Eclipse" that covered the > affair of "Paul or Tom" Verlaine and "Somebody I guess I don't remember". Not trying to drag this out interminably, but for the record, Tom Verlaine is the lead singer/guitarist in Television, who pinched the name from the French poet, just if anybody cares. == Eric Martens "When you said that I wasn't worth talking to, I had to take your word on that." -- Liz Phair _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Zorn Packaging Date: 24 Nov 1998 09:30:36 -0800 On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:18:01 -0500 Troy Whitfield wrote: > > Why not print representative sections of the score on the cover then? > That should be less ambiguous (but probably less interesting) than Man > Ray photographs etc.. > > I'm not being completely serious, of course. Honesty just seems like a > less credible rationale for ones choice of cover art than say, taste. Sorry for the confusion, but my answer was a joke. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Re: Dogon A.D. [was: sound quality (was something about Leng Tche)] Date: 24 Nov 1998 12:55:41 -0500 (EST) > You wouldn't believe what Revenant had to go through to get "Nefertiti," and to make > it as great as it is. And then D.A. had the nerve to release half the material > domestically as "Trance" this year anyway. > > Tim Berne and I have been unsuccessfully attempting to get "Dogon A.D." from D.A. > for a few years now. > I'm just wondering what reasons they could possibly give for not letting this out.... So they can put out a crappy version w/ a different cover, misspelled names, no liner notes, sell 1000 copies (or how many do they sell?), and then cut them out? That's the best I can cpme up with. How much money could they be making from these? I have "Silent Tongues" and I agree, it sounds fine. That's being cut out now too isn't it? If so don't miss it. WY - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Troy Whitfield <twhitfie@chem.bu.edu> Subject: Re: Zorn Packaging Date: 24 Nov 1998 12:59:26 -0500 Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > Sorry for the confusion, but my answer was a joke. Good. The bit about the cat food threw me. Troy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nils <jacobson@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #534 Date: 24 Nov 1998 13:20:39 +0000 JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > I > don't think that there's any sort of direct link between acts like Merzbow and > Masonna and the rock tradition. Albert Ayler and Charles Gayle can be traced > back in some ways to Charlie Parker and Lester Young, I suppose, but > appreciating one of the latter doesn't necessarily help you understand what > Ayler or Gayle is trying to do. It might not help you understand, but then maybe you don't understand. Those guys are rooted so much in the tradition of Parker and Young, they're inseparable from it. Seriously. There's a couple things to bear in mind here. First, what you hear Charles Gayle doing on record is not all he does when he performs in person. He just did a gig where he played the Moonlight Sonata. He used to play only the violin and the trumpet. What appears at the surface with that guy is only a trace representation of what goes on underneath. But anyway, look at where music was before Bird. Look at improvisation in particular. The flow of group communication, the interaction between players. Just because Gayle doesn't play bebop doesn't mean he hasn't inherited heaps from the tradition. As for Merzbow, not that I particularly like that stuff, it descends directly from rock, no doubt about it. Listen to some stuff that Hendrix did with feedback. Machine Gun, or whatever. At that point in time, electric music was just beginning to approach noise, absorb the square wave with all its majesty. Obviously, noise for noise's sake is sort of a novelty, but noise in the rock context is ancient. And lumping Ayler or Gayle with Merzbow seems pretty out of place, if you ask me. The main thing they have in common is that they are inaccessible music which most people would prefer to not hear. The jazz guys are trying to use a broader palette and different kind of brushes to get their point across. You can communicate more things with split notes and overtones than without, from a certain point of view. But then you can also communicate with the Moonlight Sonata. Merzbow never leaves the realm of square waves. The purity of that approach has some merit, but it's also really limited. -Nils - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Felix" <jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt> Subject: Absinthe Date: 24 Nov 1998 11:36:19 +0100 >Can someone tell me about "Absinthe"? I read a brief review of it >describing it as "dark". As a matter of fact, I know very little about the >Naked City/Torture Garden side of Zorn's work (I have the Elektra cd only) >and would appreciate a tutorial. Absinthe. Wow. Now there's a strange album. The first piece of ambient music I've ever heard. Compares to nothing in the Elektra CD. Dark? Yes, it's dark, gloomy, scary, has much to do with french "damned" poetry - Rimbaud, Genet, Baudelaire, Verlaine - these last two appearing to have a more active influence (the track "Fleurs du Mal" and the two "Verlaine" tracks near the end). This is not, however, similar to the "Elegy" album in which Zorn also pays homage to a french "damned" poet, Jean Genet. The playing in the CD is very slow, sometimes agonizing, and, mostly, you are never really sure who is playing what. Yamantaka Eye doesn't appear on this one. I think it's a really great album, although I seldom hear it, but I'm happy to have it and it was money well spent. Felix jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Felix" <jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt> Subject: Re: leng t'che etc. Date: 24 Nov 1998 11:35:59 +0100 >Can someone tell me about "Absinthe"? I read a brief review of it >describing it as "dark". As a matter of fact, I know very little about the >Naked City/Torture Garden side of Zorn's work (I have the Elektra cd only) >and would appreciate a tutorial. Absinthe. Wow. Now there's a strange album. The first piece of ambient music I've ever heard. Compares to nothing in the Elektra CD. Dark? Yes, it's dark, gloomy, scary, has much to do with french "damned" poetry - Rimbaud, Genet, Baudelaire, Verlaine - these last two appearing to have a more active influence (the track "Fleurs du Mal" and the two "Verlaine" tracks near the end). This is not, however, similar to the "Elegy" album in which Zorn also pays homage to a french "damned" poet, Jean Genet. The playing in the CD is very slow, sometimes agonizing, and, mostly, you are never really sure who is playing what. Yamantaka Eye doesn't appear on this one. I think it's a really great album, although I seldom hear it, but I'm happy to have it and it was money well spent. Felix jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: truth in packaging Date: 24 Nov 1998 13:29:07 -0500 (EST) > > Memorial disc. Also, does anyone have any quotes or references from > > Zorn on his use of violent imagery? I "like" it, appreciate the > > "edge," but wonder what his reasoning is on this. > > It is one of the signs that prove John's honesty. John has been pissed for > years at how misleading ads and packagings are. [...] Less confusion and > a higher consummer satisfaction, this is all what John was looking for. > As you see, it is as simple as that. > > Patrice (always happy to help). I realize there's some sarcasm here, but it is a good point, although I don't know about the bondage cover for _Radio_. The inside cover listing all the inpirations is great and very fitting, but not what you'd expect if you just see the cover. As for Naked City, Grand Guignol is personally my least favorite (considering I have Torture Garden separately, and haven't heard Absinthe), if that helps. Radio is like the first half of the first naked city album (for anyone who is interested), but to me has a better sound - not so thin and bright. Some people don't like this one but I think its good and fun to lsiten too. Just an opinion. WY - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: lamp shea Date: 24 Nov 1998 12:48:32 PST Hello. Who knows David Shea's music? What do you like? Would you mind describing it a little. I have HSI YU CHI (Tzadik, 1995), and I'm eyeing the TOWER OF MIRRORS. Is MORTS AUX VACHES (sp?) still available? BTW, thanks much to those who responded to my Piazzolla query. TANGO ZERO HOUR is the super bomb. --s NP: Dave Douglas CHARMS OF THE NIGHT SKY (gorgeous, gorgeous record) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug Tapia <dtapia@unoco.edu> Subject: Re: Zorn Packaging Date: 24 Nov 1998 15:25:02 -0000 >On Tue, 24 Nov 1998 12:18:01 -0500 Troy Whitfield wrote: >> >> Why not print representative sections of the score on the cover then? >> That should be less ambiguous (but probably less interesting) than Man >> Ray photographs etc.. >> >> I'm not being completely serious, of course. Honesty just seems like a >> less credible rationale for ones choice of cover art than say, taste. > >Sorry for the confusion, but my answer was a joke. > > Patrice. > Wow! You avant type folks can say the most off the wall things: sometimes it's hard to tell when you're joking .-} <---- (I use the little anoying cyberculture-thingie to let people know when I'm only semi serious. . . At times I wish I could use one when I'm talking face to face with people.) Oh well, back to work. . . -Doug - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: APoesia794@aol.com Subject: patton's circle status Date: 24 Nov 1998 19:04:40 EST << To me it seems that Patton is really trying (too) hard to be part of the whole circle around Zorn. He needs to grow a bit in his new role. >> i agree with everything you said in your post except for this comment. patton IS a part of the circle. he has been part of many zorn shows (including a large number of trio shows with him, zorn & mori). it seems zorn likes what patton does. someone also mentioned that patton filled in for eye on some of the naked city tour. so patton has been a growing member of the circle for a while. as far as his composition skills we have to take into consideration that patton is also fairly new (compared to many of the other members of this crazy pool) in what he is trying. peace jt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Re: lamp shea Date: 24 Nov 1998 21:43:14 -0500 At 12:48 PM 11/24/98 PST, Scott Handley wrote: >Hello. Who knows David Shea's music? What do you like? Would you mind >describing it a little. I have HSI YU CHI (Tzadik, 1995), and I'm >eyeing the TOWER OF MIRRORS. Is MORTS AUX VACHES (sp?) still available? I have four Shea albums. Shock Corridor (Avant) is short (35 minutes or so) and extremely chaotic, not much continuity. One of the three pieces is samples of Tom and Jerry cartoons plus piano, to give you an idea. I like this one the least of the four. Prisoner (Sub Rosa) is better, including more live musicians, more of an edge, definitely worth tracking down. Tower of Mirrors (Sub Rosa) is very nice, more sustained, but still clearly sample based (also including more live musicians). And Satyricon (also Sub Rosa) is my favorite of the bunch, almost all live, including some pretty good piano work, with lots of variety (including some bits that wouldn't be out of place in someone like Biosphere). I haven't heard Hsi Yu Chi (be interested in a brief description if you could), but it would be the next piece of his I would target. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers -- Pablo Picasso - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net> Subject: Re: Zorn Packaging/severedlimbs/tonguedskulls/etcetera Date: 24 Nov 1998 23:31:33 -0300 > >Sorry for the confusion, but my answer was a joke. > > > > Patrice. That's okay, I understand... Now what do you really think, or know, about the element of mega-violence in (on?) Zorn's discs? C'mon all you jokesters. I'm truly curious, interested, and looking for some skinny on this. -RL -- Marilyn Crispell, Susie Ibarra, Sam Rivers, Matthew Shipp, David S. Ware, and Reggie Workman discographies--Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things--Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL--etc., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k ***Very Various Music For Sale: ***http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: dogon a.d. Date: 24 Nov 1998 22:49:57 -0500 Brent Burton wrote: > i've got a copy of [Dogon A.D.] on the mbari label. i assumed that > hemphill put > it out himself, so how did they get the master tapes? Hemphill did put it out himself, initially. But it was licensed by Freedom for wider release and it seems that D.A. still owns the rights. Whether they know where that (or any other) mastertape is located is anyone's guess. This wasn't the only case of Freedom licensing material. The first Human Arts Ensemble album was originally self-released as well. And surely there are others. All of those rights seem to reside with D.A. now. Steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com (Martin Wisckol) Subject: Jobim - No Zorn content Date: 24 Nov 1998 19:54:36 -0800 Anybody know the changes -- or have them in a fake book -- to A.T. Jobim's "Aguas de Marco (Waters of March)"? You would be my hero forever. e-mail or fax (714) 973-4940 Martin_Wisckol@link.freedom.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: dogon a.d. Date: 24 Nov 1998 22:55:03 -0500 Ken Waxman wrote: > Considering the length of it and "Coon Bid'Ness" (the original non-PC > name for the "Reflections" sesion), why doesn't someone (Steve?) combine > them both on a single CD with new notes etc. That's a fine idea. But given that "Coon Bid'Ness" was already released (albeit poorly, with even Hamiet Bluiett's name mis-spelled), Tim was mainly just interested in getting "Dogon." Besides, that particular album has particular resonance for him: it's the single album that inspired him to pursue his career. Steve Smith smsith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cbwdeluxe1@aol.com Subject: Re: RE: DiCaprio, sorry Date: 24 Nov 1998 23:24:59 EST are we saying chet couldn't play? he may not be in the great zorn lineage, but the man could play to his broken hearted souls content. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cd <cappyd@uvic.ca> Subject: Re: noise? Date: 24 Nov 1998 20:38:47 -0800 Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > > Also, MICROPHONY > > > experiments (like amp feedback), there wouldn't be any context for > > anything like merzbow or whitehouse. those guys learned noise from > > the cacophony of free improvisation and they too traffic in free > > Not sure about that. Jazz is there definitely for the improvisation element > (that kind of disappeared from classical music), but I would expect more > from the following: > > Varese's interpolations from DESERTS (1954) > Stockhausen's MICROPHONIES (1966?) > > Patrice. > > - Yes. Cage's CARTRIDGE MUSIC (1960) comes to (my) mind. I think that a distinction can be made where the "noise" comes in the context, e.g., of Hendrix building to a climax in a live performance (not to mention the influence of other aspects of the experience (no pun intended) such as 100,000 screaming fans or hallucinogens). I can't think of any instances where hendrix held his guitar up to the amp, recorded feedback for several minutes, then stopped (and called it a finished work). I would argue the same for (most) Coltrane. On the other hand, the noise in Cage, Stockhausen, and Varese was used as a primary timbral element of entire compositions. Merzbow very well may have been influenced by Hendrix, but the extreme contextual differences between these almost polar uses of noise would have me put Merzbow in the avant-garde/experimental school (not that I like to classify..) - not as an evolution of rock or jazz. Maybe I'm wrong, but I see Merzbow starting a project and saying "the noise will start, then it will modulate, then I'll change it like this, and maybe some unexpected but very interesting changes will happen here ... then the work will end." I see this as very different from an improvisation that climaxes in a state of noise (whether jazz or rock or even Leng T'che). 2c -cd - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: dogon a.d. Date: 24 Nov 1998 23:40:48 -0500 Steve Smith wrote: > > This wasn't the only case of Freedom licensing material. The first Human > Arts Ensemble album was originally self-released as well. And surely there > are others. All of those rights seem to reside with D.A. now. What is D.A.? -- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: lamp shea Date: 24 Nov 1998 21:42:22 PST I can tell you that I like it. Plenty of continuity---one could easily imagine a new Leone movie with this haunting the background. Highlights in Shea-collage-classic-form include a raging duo between drummer Sim Cain (Rollins Band?) and I think a pipa player who we've all heard of. Name escapes me. Sampled western soundtracks, harmonica, peking gongs, etc. I really like it. First Tzadik album I saw and bought, a few years ago. Thanks for the Shea dicog input. --s >I haven't heard Hsi Yu Chi (be >interested in a brief description if you could), but it would be the next >piece of his I would target. > >-- >Caleb Deupree >cdeupree@erinet.com > >Computers are useless; they can only give you answers >-- Pablo Picasso > >- > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stefan Verstraeten <stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be> Subject: question to Arthur Nowak (sorry for the bandwith) Date: 25 Nov 1998 09:01:20 +0100 (Sorry no Zorn content) Arthur Nowak, can you email me once again? I replied to your email, but your return address does not seem to work. Best wishes -- Stefan Verstraeten - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J.T. de Boer" <J.T.de.Boer@let.rug.nl> Subject: Re: lamp shea Date: 25 Nov 1998 11:17:36 +0200 Hi Scott, As a matter of fact I just bought Morts Aux Vaches this weekend, at the Dutch Electronic Arts Festival in Rotterdam. It had only one run of thousand copies (I have number 46), so a place to start finding it is Staalplaat (www.staalplaat.com), the company that released the album. Another possibility is VPRO-radio (I think www.omroep.nl/vpro). They recorded the session. It features a.o. a complete live recording of his album Satyricon. Another great album is Prisoner. Shea is accompanied here by a.o. Ribot, Zeena Parkins and Jim Pugliese. A very nice tribute to the music of 70's detective-series. A real must have is Shea's latest recording on Tzadik, called Classical Works. Simply beatiful! Unfortunately I haven't got Tower of Mirrors (yet). According to Shea's own words he is most satisfied with this album, plus "I". Both were released on the belgian Sub Rosa label. > Hello. Who knows David Shea's music? What do you like? Would you mind > describing it a little. I have HSI YU CHI (Tzadik, 1995), and I'm > eyeing the TOWER OF MIRRORS. Is MORTS AUX VACHES (sp?) still available? > NP: Dave Douglas CHARMS OF THE NIGHT SKY (gorgeous, gorgeous record) Jeroen - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Let's Burn Down The Cornfield Date: 25 Nov 1998 10:29:12 GMT0BST Christian Heslop asked about this song ... I know it by (I'm sure) Etta James from 1974-75, but it's entirely possible that Nina recorded it as well (my interest in her was rekindled by two of three half- hour radio progs on her that I heard recently). I have a niggling feeling that the song was written by Randy newman, but I have no other grounds for that belief ... NP (in my head) A Little Sugar In My Bowl, by Nina Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "keik-o wenischi" <lefauxhulot@hotmail.com> Subject: Umezu's gigs in NY Date: 25 Nov 1998 02:39:54 PST first of all, 'sorry' this message is pretty big (just about 7k) in volume. i could've cut the quotes/disco part, but i thought they might be interesting for some of you?! in case, you have no interests in the contents at all, please skip them & go to next message. _big_ thanx!! -------- immediate release! - UMEZU is back to NYC intro: A colleague of John Zorn's and one of Japan's finest sax players/ composers/producers, Umezu Kazutoki utilized many of downtown's premiere players on two of his four outstanding Knitting Factory Works CDs: Eclecticism, First Deserter, Lucky Water, Shakushain. (selected discography shown below) Like Zorn, Umezu's playing often defies categorization. Avant improv., wacky funk, post-surf groove music, Euro soundtrack and out jazz all can be found on these CDs. Umezu only makes it to NYC once every few years, so come on down and dig in to his challenging sounds. ~ by Bruce Gallanter of Downtown Music Gallery, NYC 888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888888 live dates: Saturday, Dec. 5th, 11 p.m. at tonic, 107 Norfolk St. (bet. Delancey & Rivington) with Dougie Bowne on drum sampler, Melvin Gibbs on bass, Eyvind Kang on violin admission: $10 (will let you see the double bill: Melvin Gibbs/I-Sound/Felix Sanbria at 9 p.m.) Wednesday, Dec. 9th, 8 & 9:30 p.m. (improv nite!: 2 different sets) at Knitting Factory/Old Office, 74 Leonard St. (bet. Church Ave. & B'way) 1st. set: with Christine Bard on percussion, Jim Pugliese on percussion 2nd. set: with Anthony Coleman on keyboards, David Krakauer on clarinets admission: $8 Thursday, Dec. 10th, 8 & 9:30 p.m. (world premiere of Umezu's all new compositions!!) at Knitting Factory/Old Office, 74 Leonard St. (bet. Church Ave. & B'way) both sets: with Brad Jones on bass, Marc Ribot on guitar, Kenny Wollesen on drums note: The line-up for Dec. 10th gig, will go in studio & record the new songs by Umezu in NYC. &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&& The following sections were included for your convenience & additional reading. & some more info. is also available thru his own website (not so much updated in English version, unfortunately...): http://www.j-music.com/umezu/index.html ###################################################################### some additional comments on Umezu... by late Tom Cora: "I don't envy saxophone players. There's too much history compressed into one century, and too much music restricted to one idiom. And virtuoso mega personalities glaring from several previous decades. No shortage of geniuses, either. How would you like to find your own voice on an axe with a history like a caved-in star? Along comes Umezu who switches on the light so fast you can see what the dark looks like. Someone else will undoubtedly write about what an ace he is. I'm more interested in the way that he helps us forget that craft or chops could have anything to do with it. I'm interested in his reflexes, which are quicker than history gets laid: and how he manages to be at ease in the 20th century. His sounds and songs correct all bad attitudes (like the one I have about saxophonists). I'm actually much more interested in playing with Umezu than writing about him." by John Zorn: "Umezu defies the laws of time and space. How can he do so much and stay so positive? Umezu is one of those rare musicians in Japan who cut through the bullshit of 'playing at playing' and really fucking _play_. Pure music. Honest music. Good music." by Ned Rothenberg: "If I had to choose one word to describe Umezu, it would be 'exuberant.'This cat writes exuberant, plays exuberant... His music just bouncesalong like a ball. And I moan in any tempo. Even in a slow ballad, you can hear it there, too. And Umezu really dances when he plays! I remember seeing a video from his days with RC Succession, and he had all the moves, you know? Looked like he stepped right out of James Brown's band!" by Samm Bennett: "Umezu Kazutoki looks damn good in a cap. Then again, he also looks good in a top hat or even a derby, which I've seen him wearing on stage here and there. And then, Umezu looks just fine with no hat at all. That's kind of the way it goes with this fellow. Maybe you've heard him with some Japanese rock band, maybe in some video somewhere. Maybe you've heard the sweet wail of his saxophone provide the perfect backdrop for the entrance of some beautiful but dangerous (abunai!) lady in the latest Yakuza movie. Perhaps you've heard him leading one of his own groups across the various musical terrains over which he loves to travel, whether it's some gut-bucket blues, a tender ballad, some little tune he learned in Thailad or Java, a stomping funk number, or whatever. Or maybe you've heard him throw caution to the wind and just improvise all night with some crazy guys from New York City. In a cap, a top hat, a derby, or with no hat at all... And he always sounds just like Mr. Kazutoki Umezu, which is absolutely fine with me." by Marc Ribot: "That boy can really play the horn!" ********************************************************************** now the selected discography: (more detailed discography avail. upon your request) *released in the U.S. Desert in a hand by Shakushain feat. Umezu Kazutoki - KFR 215 (1997) Kazutoki Umezu, reeds, pianica; Tsuneo Imahori, guitar, mandolin; Isao Miyoshi, guitar; Kazuto Shimizu, piano, keyboard, organ, bass clarinet, vocoder, toy piano, xylophone; Masatoshi Mizuno, bass; Tomohiro Yahiro, percussion; Kozo Niida, drums First Deserter - KFR 214 (1997) with Marc Ribot (guitar & trumpet) Wayne Horvitz (piano, organ, keyboards, keyn) Tom Cora (cello, kehn) Samm Bennett (drums, percussion, samples, loops, kehn) Lucky Water by Third Person - KFR 156 (1995) Samm Bennett (percussion) Tom Cora (cello) Umezu Kazutoki (saxophone) Eclecticism - KFR 130 (1994) with Marc Ribot (guitar) Dougie Bowne (drums) Brad Jones (bass) Curtis Fowlkes (trombone) Samm Bennett (electric percussion) [released only in Japan] Igor no Nageki by Shinohkubo Gentlemen(supposedly a mysterious & anonymous band, but surely features Samm Bennett & Umezu among others) - Music Scene Corp. MSI-10119 (1998) Ahiru by Betsuni Nanmo Klezmer(18 pcs. or more?! Klezmer big band, Umezu version... besides Umezu, it features Makigami Koichi among all others. Hell A Lotta Fun!!) - Disk Union (1996) Dance by Betsuni Nanmo Klezmer - Disk Union (1996) - BNK's second CD Omedeto by Betsuni Nanmo Klezmer - Nani Records NCD-01 (1994) BNK's first CD Sin'myon - collaboration with korean musicians & shamans, recorded in Korea - Victor Zen Label VICG-8027 (1992) Trick Moon by Third Person - Tsuki No Uso TU-001 (1991) Samm Bennett (percussion) Tom Cora (cello) Umezu Kazutoki (saxophone) plus special guest, Imahori Tsuneo (guitar) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Before We were born Date: 25 Nov 1998 10:36:23 GMT0BST Theodorus is right. By the way, can anyone confirm that The Lone Ranger (from that album) was used on the Tales From the Dark Side animated cartoon that larsen made a few years ago? Sean Wilkie Did anyone else hear Joey's Down Home group on UK radio 3 a couple of weeks back? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Embarrassed clarification Date: 25 Nov 1998 10:42:37 GMT0BST Um, that last message, that said "Theodorus is right" was referring to his enthusiasm for Frisell's before We Were Born, and Joey Baron, (Digest 532) and NOT the Ayn Rand speech (Digest 533). Thanks for your indulgence, Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marks, Andy" <Andy.Marks@mts.com> Subject: NY Christmas Shows Date: 25 Nov 1998 05:51:55 -0600 I'll be in NY from Dec. 24 to Dec. 31 Anybody know anything good that's scheduled for then? I don't know of an on-line schedule for Tonic (tried www.tonic.com, but wasn't it). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: Vinyl FS ... Date: 25 Nov 1998 07:29:11 -0500 Hi, Please pardon the intrusion ... I have the following items FS ... Prices are in _US $_ and are POSTAGE PAID within North America. Shipping on orders outside NA can be arranged. Haters - see website below for list Head Of David - "Dogbreath" UK 12" (Blast First) 1986 $10 Head Of David - "LP" UK LP (Blast First) 1986 $12 Merzbow/Cock E.S.P. - "Music For Man With No Name" US 7" (Fusetron/Stuart) 1994 $7 Sauter, Dietrich, Moore - "Barefoot In The Head" US LP (Forced Exposure) 1990 $12 Thanks for looking. -Patrick pm.carey@utoronto.ca http://www.astro.utoronto.ca/~carey/sofa/sale.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: etant donnes (the band) Date: 25 Nov 1998 08:02:27 PST Does anyone know what these guys (gals?) are like? I noticed the name and some interesting-looking releases on Staalplaat. In fact, Staalplaat has anumber of cool-looking acts--Scanner, Hafler Trio, etc--and I just don't know what any of them are like. I suppose I'd like some input before investing. --s ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: DeCaprio Plays Chet Baker Date: 25 Nov 1998 16:09:31 GMT0BST One assumes it'll be predominantly the youthful years ... which prompts the "who'll play Gerry Mulligan?" question. Just my opinion, but Chet was one bad-ass trumpeter ... and his vocal "solos" were, unsurprisingly, straight from the same mould. Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: Zorn Packaging/severedlimbs/tonguedskulls/etcetera Date: 25 Nov 1998 10:28:13 -0500 Rick Lopez wrote: >Now what do you really think, or know, about the element of >mega-violence in (on?) Zorn's discs? I've always tended to credit Zorn with having a great eye for the visual impact of the images he uses as well as having a deep understanding of the resonance or "depth of story" that those images tend to possess. I _don't_ think they're chosen simply for shock value. Examples: 1) The Weegee photo on the front of the first Naked City record. While Weegee might be the most familiar source that JZ has utilized, his best crime photos still provide invaluable refutation of the Hollywood glamorization of violence. Somehow, I don't think the mug pictured here uttered any tender last words or died in poetic slow motion. He was a conscious entity; he's now a sack of meat. 2) The cover of Painkiller's 'Buried Secrets'. I think someone has posted before as to the source of this photo, but, knowing nothing else, it's an extraordinary photo that conjures up a range of possible underlying stories. Aside from being, IMHO, formally beautiful (almost Raphaelesque in the positioning of the hands), the narrative elements (whose skull?, why was it buried?, why the handcuffs?) beg to be elaborated upon and create a wonderful sense of mystery. 3) The 'Grand Guignol' cover. The contrast between the dreamy expression of the fellow and his, um, situation are obvious, but no less powerful for that. A puzzling element, at least for me, is the nearly ornamental arabesque of the skull-carving (was someone just fooling around? If so, another layer of meaning is added). The interior photo of the pile of legs and feet, by the way, echoes some incredible paintings by Gericault, done as studies for his 'Raft of the Medusa' around 1800. Surprised JZ hasn't gotten around to them yet. 4) Leng T'che. This is one of the most powerful, troubling, excruciating photos I've ever seen (A friend, to whom I showed this one day, literally couldn't sleep that evening). Clearly, what "makes" it (and, yes, it's difficult to discuss this on a purely formal basis) is the incredible expression on the victim's face which, again to me, reads as ecstatic or even transcendant, in severe opposition to the actions taking place. This, combined with the "everyday" aspect of the torturers, creates this chaotic, awful, insane 'moment'...well, words fail, hence the power of the image. Anyway, that's my take. Now someone may come along and say, "Naw, Zorn just likes violent images and thinks they're cool." But, until I learn otherwise, I give someone who can appreciate an Agnes Martin painting (surely the antithesis to the violent anime he also likes) the benefit of the doubt. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "hijk" <hijk@gateway.net> Subject: RE: Baker/Mulligan Date: 25 Nov 1998 12:45:45 -0500 The young Gerry Mulligan... Conan O' Brien. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale <jhale@sympatico.ca> Subject: Chicago Online Forum Date: 25 Nov 1998 18:21:26 -0500 Pardon the non-Zorn content... Next Thursday, Dec. 3 from 8 p.m. to 11 p.m. EST, you're invited to join in a worldwide online forum concerning the influence of Chicago on the contemporary jazz scene. >From the early years of Sun Ra to the AACM to Ken Vandermark, Tortoise and Jim O'Rourke, a panel of musicians, music scholars and journalists will be discussing it all. The forum is a co-presentation of the Jazz Journalists Association, Music Now, the Jazz Institute of Chicago and Delmark Records, and coincides with a six-week series of concerts featuring Chicago musicians that Music Now is staging in Ottawa, Canada. There will be "door prizes" courtesy of Delmark Records and other goodies for participants. All you have to do is log into <www.jazzhouse.org> Dec. 3 between 8 and 11 Eastern time and follow the instructions. I'm moderating the forum, so e-mail me directly if you have any questions. James Hale - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tony Reif <treif@songlines.com> Subject: Songlines website and tours Date: 25 Nov 1998 15:34:34 -0800 (PST) Hey... Know you haven't been holding your breath, but it's up at last (although it may still take a few more days for the slower ISPs to update, so if you get a blank page please try again later): www.songlines.com ...includes RealAudio samples from all the CDs; you can now order by credit card, and using a 1 800 number in the States or Canada. Browse, fill out the questionnaire if you have the time, please let me know if anything isn't working for you, and by all means link wherever relevant. Latest releases on Songlines include Paul Plimely (piano) and Trichy Sankaran (mrdangam, kanjira), Persian music by Amir Koushkani (tar, voice) and Houman Pourmehdi (tombak, daf), Francois Houle's John Carter project (with Dave Douglas, Mark Dresser, Peggy Lee, Dylan van der Schyff), and Jerry Granelli's Badlands (with Chris Speed, Peter Epstein, Briggan Krauss, Curtis Hasselbring, Jamie Saft and J. Granelli). Plimley and Houle are each touring solo in the U.S. as follows: Plimley (piano): Dec. 2 San Francisco, Bruno's Dec. 12 San Diego, Spring Street Forum Dec. 13 Birmingham, Artbusrt Houle (clarinet): Dec. 7 Chicago Cultural Centre (contact: Michael Orlove); opening for Myra Melford Dec. 9 Chicago, Empty Bottle (John Corbett), solo and with guests probably including Ken Vandermark Dec. 10 Ann Arbor, Kerrytown Concert House (Dave Lynch) Dec. 12 First Unitarian Meeting House, Madison (Scott Fields/Madison Music Collective) solo and duo with Hal Rammel Dec. 13 Chicago, Hot House, with Gene Coleman's ensemble Dec. 18 First Unitarian Meeting House, Madison (Madison Music Collective/ Scott Fields), 13 piece group including Fields, Joseph Jarman, Myra Melford, Dylan van der Schyff, Kerrie Biolo, Rob Mazurek, Hans Sturm, etc. Tony Reif (Songlines Recordings) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Given <dlgiven@julian.uwo.ca> Subject: Re: Songlines website and tours Date: 25 Nov 1998 19:09:24 -0500 >Date: Wed, 25 Nov 1998 15:34:34 -0800 (PST) >From: Tony Reif <treif@songlines.com> >Subject: Songlines website and tours > >Latest releases on Songlines include... Francois Houle's John Carter project >(with Dave Douglas, Mark Dresser, Peggy Lee, Dylan van der Schyff), I think I say this every time a new Houle album comes out, but it can't be stressed enough: BUY THIS. This is a great album, and a continuation of a string of amazing recordings. Canada's most important musician in years. Houle's music covers a lot of ground - straight jazz, free improv - and he is more than proficient at all of it. The John Carter project is more in the jazz end of the spectrum than some of his recent recordings (the one with Leandre and Graewe, or the duo with Benoit Delbeq, for instance), and has some really good playing by Dresser and Douglas. And Lee and Van der Schyff, who are two more Vancouver treasures worth checking out. Dan (who gets these patriotic notions once in a while) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "keik-o wenischi" <lefauxhulot@hotmail.com> Subject: Shin-Ohkubo Gentlemen/Umezu Kazutoki Date: 25 Nov 1998 16:45:40 PST frank wrote: > oh my god, I think I should go NYC! > I am a BIG fan of Umezu. > Have a lot of albums and one LP (moers Festival!!) > > So please post me the most detailed dsicography of Umezu! patrice wrote: > > Igor no Nageki by Shinohkubo Gentlemen(supposedly a mysterious & > > anonymous band, but surely features Samm Bennett & Umezu among others) > > - Music Scene Corp. MSI-10119 (1998) > > Would it be possible to provide more info on this one? What I would like > is the exact lineup (could Umezu provides it?), and the list of tracks > with duration. well... thanx for some of your interest on Umezu's more detailed disco. i guess i'd start with the 'Shin-Ohkubo Gentlemen'(it seems to be this one is the right english spelling), then... i'll post some others later. its CD cover lists names which only would make you laugh... **** The "Great" kintoki on Soprano sax, alto sax, bariton sax, B-flat clarinet, base clarinet, penny whistle, vocal Abdul Wahaha on rappa violin, violin, electric violin, mandlin, vocal Igor on piano, keyboard(Elizabeth), vocal Oka-no-Moses (means 'Moses on the hill') on double bass, vocal BONE on percussion, samples, vocal Gudang "Rum"-o on drums, percussion, pocket trumpet,guiter,vocal ++++++ according to some japanese folks' live concert report on the band; G.K. with silver-blonde hair really resembles Umezu Kazutoki Abdul in a black jacket & pants but nothing underneath except a bow-tie & a red rose on the jacket, really resembles Ohta Keisuke Igor in a white feather coat w/ a red'n'white knitcap, really resembles Shimizu Kazuto Oka-no-Moses with a pair of sunglasses & a straw hat, really resembles Tachibana Yasuhiko BONE with a baseball hat, really resembles Samm Bennett Gudang with dreadlocks, really resembles Yoshigaki Yasuhiro hmmmm... but according to its official release, they are definitely the group of mysterious foreigners who were brought together by fate... or something?!!!!? Note: Umezu also wrote extensive review/rumour collection as a big fan of 'S-O Gentlemen.' if any one of you can understand japanese, check it at http://www.j-music.com/umezu/shinohkubog/profile.html i cannot translate them all since it's soooo long! (he said at one point, the band members never reveal their real selves & always arrive in disguises at the venues they'd play... they seems to change the outfit quite a bit.) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~ as for the duration of each songs on CDs, no infos are avail. however, song titles are as follows; 1: Igor-no-nageki (Igor's grief) by Igor 2: Ota-no-toruko by Abdul Wahaha - basicaly turkish song 3: Chitei-jin to Saitei-jin (Subterraneans & Worst-eans) by Gudang/Igor 4: Rocker in his forties by The "Great" kintoki 5: Igor-no-tsubuyaki (Igor's whisper) by Igor 6: Fat Back Burner by BONE 7: Boogie Man Song - Take Me Girl, I'm ready (2 songs medley) by Rahsaan Roland Kirk - Pam Sawyer/La Vern Ware/Johnny Bristol 8: But Then, We Love It by Gudang "Rum"-o 9: Igor-no-tsubuyaki(Igor's whisper): reprise by Igor 10: Guri-guri by The "Great" kintoki 11: Ayamu by Jeffry Bulle/Japanese words by The "Great" kintoki 12: Let's Make Love by Moses 13: Igor-no-odori (Igor's dance) by Igor 14: Igor-no-yorokobi (Igor's delight) by Igor All songs are performed & produced by Shin-Okubo Gentlemen ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "keik-o wenischi" <lefauxhulot@hotmail.com> Subject: david shea on nov. 30th in nyc Date: 25 Nov 1998 16:58:17 PST i just received a digest & realized some people are discussing on David Shea. if you're in nyc & interested, he'll give free concert on monday, nov. 30th. it's at the cooler, 416 w. 14th (bet. 9 & 10 av.) he seems to be performing w/ lisa dillilo. i don't know the exact time slots, etc. but maybe check http://www.thecooler.com ... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: NY Christmas Shows Date: 25 Nov 1998 21:42:05 -0500 Marks, Andy wrote: > I'll be in NY from Dec. 24 to Dec. 31 > Anybody know anything good that's scheduled > for then? I don't know of an on-line schedule > for Tonic (tried www.tonic.com, but wasn't it). http://www.tonic104.com December has a very different look to it, given the booking by Vernon Reid. Definitely not the same old names. New Year's Eve will be rung in with Marc Ribot's Cubanos Postisos. Also, the New York Times runs a pretty comprehensive website of New York activities: http://www.nytoday.com I note with some bemusement that the third annual Knitting Factory Christmas Klezmer Festival has been extended to a full week and renamed Jewsapalooza. Oh, that Dorf. But there are some good familiar names on those bills: http://www.knittingfactory.com Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: dogon a.d. Date: 25 Nov 1998 21:56:20 -0500 Joseph Zitt wrote: > > This wasn't the only case of Freedom licensing material. The first Human > > Arts Ensemble album was originally self-released as well. And surely there > > are others. All of those rights seem to reside with D.A. now. > > What is D.A.? A German outfit with an office in New Jersey that acquired the Black Lion and Freedom catalogs and maybe a few others. Did pretty nice reissues in the '80s and pretty crappy ones in the '90s. But several have mentioned "Reflections" has been deleted, and the Downtown Music Gallery $10 sale list #3 included quite a number of recent D.A. releases, so maybe they're selling the catalog, or maybe they're about to get serious. Naahh... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: could it be? Date: 24 Nov 1998 22:22:55 -0500 I just read that there may be plans for Tzadik to issue an old trio session of Derek Bailey, Milford Graves and Min Tanaka. What a mighty treat that would be! Does anybody know if there's any truth to this or have any more information? Thanks. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FJG_Lamerikx <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> Subject: Re: could it be? Date: 26 Nov 1998 08:25:08 +0100 (MET) > I just read that there may be plans for Tzadik to issue an old trio > session of Derek Bailey, Milford Graves and Min Tanaka. What a mighty > treat that would be! Does anybody know if there's any truth to this or > have any more information? Thanks. Speaking of Derek Bailey, a friend of mine claims that his "Music and Dance" might well be the best CD he owns. Can anyone tell me whether this still is available, and on which label? Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rusty Crump <rusty@steno.com> Subject: Music publishing in general and JZ's in particular Date: 25 Nov 1998 17:27:37 -0800 Something I've been meaning to ask for several months now: Does anybody know the back story regarding JZ's music publishing switch from "Theatre of Musical Optics (BMI) to "Musical Optics (ASCAP)"? Was Zorn unhappy with BMI? This strikes me as the sort of move that he'd most likely make with the (harlanellisonian) impetus of moral outrage, "they done me wrong," etc. etc. blah blah. Checking back, I see that it happened between Masada 7 and 8, and I believe I saw the change on one of the Tzadik releases as well. I admit to a purely gossipy sort of interest in this. This leads to my more general question. If you'll notice, there's hardly ever music publishing info on Zorn releases anymore (Masada being an exception); for that matter, on any releases anymore. Once upon a time, publishing info would be conspicuous by its absence; now, as on the most recent Lambchop album, it was conspicuous by its presence. (Parenthetically, I mention Lambchop as an unsubtle way to plug the band, esp. their second album, "How I Quit Smoking". The new one's okay, but nothing matches the psychic weirdness of the second album. Imagine the string- and reed-drenched country music Billy Sherril produced in the 1960s, with lyrics about children dying in Bosnia, and other typically Nashvillian topics.) But back to the question: What changed? What specifically happened to U.S. (and/or international) copyright law that no longer made it necessary to include publishing info on the release? And when did the change occur? Rusty Crump Redding, CA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cd <cappyd@uvic.ca> Subject: Re: Music publishing in general and JZ's in particular Date: 26 Nov 1998 03:49:04 -0800 > But back to the question: What changed? What specifically happened to > U.S. (and/or international) copyright law that no longer made it > necessary to include publishing info on the release? And when did the > change occur? 1. The US used to have all these rules about having to give notice of copyright in order to receive copyright protection. For example: "(c) date of publication, publisher's name" in respect of the underlying compositions and "(p) date of publication, publisher's name" in respect of the sound recording. The US has now come in line with the rest of the world and complied with their treaty obligations (on this issue anyway) that THEIR CAN BE NO TECHNICAL OR ADMINISTRATIVE BARRIERS TO COPYRIGHT PROTECTION - if you made it and it's original and it's a "work", sound recording, cinematograph, or other copyrightable entity, you are protected. No need to register, give notice, publish, or anything else. However, many countries grant "bonuses" to those who do register or give notice such as favorable presumptions and expanded remedies in court should you end up there. 2. I'm guessing here, but part of the reason you would put notice on the album is so those having to pay royalties or wishing to negotiate for use of the work knew who to contact. But, because a vast majority of performance royalties are now collected/distributed by ASCAP and BMI (SOCAN in Canada) and a vast majority of the mechanical license royalties are distributed by Harry Fox (CMRRA in Canada), the user need only contact the appropriate collective society in most circumstances - not the publisher - who then distributes the money to the publisher (after taking their cut) who then distributes it to the composers (after taking their cut). The only reason that I can think of that someone would need to contact the publisher directly is if they want to use a sample (or otherwise copy the recording such as for use in a compilation or as part of a film soundtrack). Theoretically, you might want scores of the underlying works, but that is quite rare these days (and the scores are usually easy to find - there's even a Zorn catalogue now!). Oh ya - the owner's of a sound recording and the performers will now get paid for radio play (and some internet play) in most Rome Treaty countries, but again, this will be distributed by a collective society for the most part. See the RIAA website for info on this point. Join the CNI-COPYRIGHT list if you're very interested. They can answer any of your copyright questions (with footnotes and case sites, and more clearly and accurately than I can). Of course, none of this is legal advise and don't rely on it and this doesn't establish a lawyer/client relationship and all that other junk I should probably say so that I don't lose my license to practise law (that I don't have yet). -cd the good news: only 22 days of school left. the bad news: 3 x 180 minute exams and a 15,000 word paper left. back to work.... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: could it be? Date: 26 Nov 1998 09:52:32 EST In a message dated 11/26/98 2:29:04 AM, flamerik@best.ms.philips.com wrote: <<Speaking of Derek Bailey, a friend of mine claims that his "Music and Dance" might well be the best CD he owns. Can anyone tell me whether this still is available, and on which label?>> this was one of my Bailey recommendations when we had that discussion a few months ago. it's a duet with Min Tanaka tap-dancing, and rain beating down on the outside of the house. and it is still available, on John Fahey's reissue label, Revenant, the same label which Steve helped obtain the rights for Cecil Taylor's Nefertiti for. as always, try Forced Exposure, at www.fe.org. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Re: etant donnes (the band) Date: 26 Nov 1998 11:02:48 -0500 At 08:02 AM 11/25/98 PST, Scott Handley wrote: >Does anyone know what these guys (gals?) are like? I noticed the name >and some interesting-looking releases on Staalplaat. In fact, >Staalplaat has anumber of cool-looking acts--Scanner, Hafler Trio, >etc--and I just don't know what any of them are like. I suppose I'd >like some input before investing. I have one album of Etant Donnes, Royaume on Touch. It's short (about 20 minutes) and extremely puzzling. I don't listen to it much, but I remember something like an aural document of some kind of performance art (I read somewhere that they are performance artists, so I am drawing a conclusion from a fairly unsatisfactory listening experience, trying to make some kind of sense from it). Note that the touch site at hyperreal (http://www.hyperreal.org/music/labels/touch/touch.htm) contains more positive information. If they have other albums I'd be very interested in hearing about them. Staalplaat generally puts out interesting stuff, in my somewhat limited experience. Hafler Trio is Andrew McKenzie, and he's been doing soundscapes for probably 15 years. Their earliest albums actually did have other players (notably Chris Watson, who makes incredible all-natural soundscape disks on Touch), but most of the recent ones are solo. There is also information about H30 (as they are sometimes known) on the touch web site mentioned above. Of the albums listed on the touch site, Thirsty Fish is generally considered one of their best, although the CD reissue is only three sides of what was originally a double lp. Some of their albums are very short, such as Masturbatorium (which accompanied an Annie Sprinkle performance) and Fuck (yes, that's really the title, and the cover photo is, well, in soleilmoon's words, 'extremely tasty cover art you'll want to show your grandmother.' Yahoo has three sites listed for them, although since I run a bit of a paranoid browser (no cookies, java, or javascript), they wouldn't come up very satisfactorily for me. Not as familiar with scanner, but he reports occasionally on hyperreal's ambient list, which discusses this kind of music periodically. If you think you're interested in Staalplaat, they publish a net newsletter the Vital Weekly, which contains a half dozen or so reviews of music they publish and similar efforts. Info on subscriptions at the www.staalplaat.com. Soleilmoon distributes their stuff stateside, and has periodic net updates and a somewhat informative online catalog at www.soleilmoon.com. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers -- Pablo Picasso - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Taj Mahal Travellers Date: 26 Nov 1998 11:24:22 -0500 I've gotten a couple of new CDs lately which I'll be reporting on in time, but I'm very excited about the CD reissue of the Taj Mahal Travellers August 1974 (that's the title) release. TMT was Japan's answer to Stockhausen's improvisational groups of the early 1970s, featuring Fluxus member Takehisa Kosugi (who plays on the excellent Mode release of Cage's Five Stone Wind). Roger Sutherland's _New Perspectives in Music_ book talked about this group at some length in connection with electroacoustic improv (such as he practices in his own group Morphogenesis), so I've been on the lookout for something by them. This package is two CDs, duplicating fairly closely a 2-lp release. The sound is superb. The music is slow moving, lots of drones and percussion, but always with a lot going on under the surface. The set has two long improvs, split into four tracks (following the lp restrictions), and although no bonus material has been included, leaving the time at the original 45 minutes or so per disc, the music doesn't sound dated at all. A very welcome reissue of an important electronic improvisation group. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers -- Pablo Picasso - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Taj Mahal Travellers Date: 26 Nov 1998 13:08:15 EST <<I've gotten a couple of new CDs lately which I'll be reporting on in time, but I'm very excited about the CD reissue of the Taj Mahal Travellers August 1974 (that's the title) release.>> I'm in the middle of Thanksgiving festivities so I have to be brief, but I'd like to chime in and say this is my current front-runner for reissue of the year. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sweetnighter <aek1@erols.com> Subject: Uri Caine's "Mahler" in Philadelphia Date: 26 Nov 1998 20:45:24 -0500 Sunday, December 6, 1998 URI CAINE Urlicht/Primal Light The Music of Gustav Mahler Uri Caine (piano) Mark Feldman (violin) Ralph Alessi (trumpet) DJ Olive (electronics) Drew Gress (bass) Cornell Rochester (drums) Unitarian Church, Chestnut Street Between 21st & 22nd, Philadelphia 4 PM Uri Caine playing the music of Gustav Mahler as performed on his recording Winter&Winter recording, "Primal Light". -- See http://home.att.net/~lankina/sweetnighter for info on this and future concerts. -- http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: NY Christmas Shows Date: 27 Nov 1998 00:39:45 EST In a message dated 11/25/98 9:45:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, ssmith36@sprynet.com writes: > Marks, Andy wrote: > > > I'll be in NY from Dec. 24 to Dec. 31 > > Anybody know anything good that's scheduled > > for then? I don't know of an on-line schedule > > for Tonic (tried www.tonic.com, but wasn't it). > > http://www.tonic104.com > You might have better luck with tonic107.com :-) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FJG_Lamerikx <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> Subject: Merzbow documentary film (gross content) Date: 27 Nov 1998 08:47:23 +0100 (MET) (Non-Zorn content, or maybe you should read this in relation to recent discussion about the Leng Tch'e artwork) On Wednesday, I went to see South-African film maker Ian Kerkhof's new documentary film on Merzbow. Apparently, it was made for Dutch TV, since the VPRO was credited at the end. If this ever makes it to TV, I am sure I live in the most tolerant country in the world (The Netherlands). The documentary was split into several parts, each detailing a particular interest and influence of Merzbow. I came in late, during what must have been the second or third part. It dealt with Merzbow's fascination for eroticism, pornography, and SM. Merzbow was shown at his house, and walking the streets of Tokyo, while talking and philosophizing about these subjects. The filming was decidedly avant-garde, as was the overlaying of his monologues with Merzbow's music. Merzbow talked at length about the importance of George Bataille. The documentary then went on to show various depictions of SM and bondage stills, each accompanied by 1-second blasts of noise. Extremely graphic, and some of the images were quite shocking, to say the least. However, the most shocking part - which made some people leave - came when they showed excerpts of a video Merzbow had directed of a young girl commiting harakiri. They showed quite a bit - too much for most, I reckon. The young girl was shown taking off her blouse very quietly. She proceeded to take up a short sword, winding a piece of cloth over the blade. She then proceeded to slice open her stomach, from left to right, all the while screaming silently. Blood was gushing over the floor, and after a while her entrails started coming out, spilling over the blood-covered floor. Finally, the girl bent over in agony and died screaming. This scene was so graphic, that there was some discussion afterwards whether this was real or fake - some people insisted that this must have been a snuff video. Anyway, it was by far the most repelling thing I've ever seen. The third part was called "Merzbow on Marcel Duchamp", but apart from drawing on Duchamp's idea of spiralling figures it didn't feature one word on the man. The director was present, and there was room for questions and comments after the film. Strangely, he refused to comment on the authenticity of the harakiri scene. Having known Masami Akita for many years, he considered him one of the great philosophers of culture of our time, and an excellent critic of Japanese culture. All in all, an overwhelming experience to say the least. As a documentary, I don't think Kerkhof could have done a better job. There was a lot of insight into the psyche and motivations of Merzbow, and the form of the film, which was demanding for the viewer, was well-chosen and well-executed. So, if you ever get a chance to see this, don't hesitate. It will give you some feeling for the dichotomy at the heart of Japanese culture. Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: all things Merzbow Date: 27 Nov 1998 10:41:54 PST Speaking of the Merz, has anyone heard any of the MERZBOX material? I remember remarking on its forthcomingnesss several months ago. It appears to have not sold out yet. Wow. Would anyone here fess up to having BOUGHT the monolithic mofo? wondering how he pays the rent, scott ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: all things Merzbow Date: 27 Nov 1998 14:06:26 EST In a message dated 11/27/98 1:44:44 PM, c123018@hotmail.com wrote: <<Speaking of the Merz, has anyone heard any of the MERZBOX material? I remember remarking on its forthcomingnesss several months ago. It appears to have not sold out yet. Wow. Would anyone here fess up to having BOUGHT the monolithic mofo?>> I'm pretty sure that it's not actually out yet. the last I heard, it had been bumped back until next year because of packaging delays. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Les Ohlhauser" <unilester@hotmail.com> Subject: NEW GUY! Date: 27 Nov 1998 13:04:52 PST Howdy, folks. I just got on this list, and was wondering what some good stuff to get in this vein would be. I have all of the Naked City discs, and all the Mike Patton stuff, and they all (except for Absinthe) REALLY interest me. Thanx fer the help, $$$THE UNILESTER$$$ ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric John Lundberg <elundber@sfu.ca> Subject: Zorn's Top 10 Lists Date: 27 Nov 1998 15:41:01 -0800 (PST) Hello, I was wondering if anyone remembered any of the suggestions that Zorn included in his now defunct Top 10 lists that used to be on the Tzadik web-page. I am interested in any titles that you can remember. I bought a few of the titles that were on the list (100% Cotton, Kagel's Exotica, and Marcelino Guerra's Rapindey) and was very happy with all of them. Always happy to hear a suggestion and I know that Zorn has very eclectic tastes and is probably a good person to take a reccommendation from. E-mail me privately, or if others would be interested we could open this up as a discussion topic for the list. Thanks alot in advance Eric - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Zorn Packaging/severedlimbs/tonguedskulls/etcetera Date: 27 Nov 1998 22:16:33 -0300 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > > >Rick Lopez wrote: > >Now what do you really think, or know, about the element of > >mega-violence in (on?) Zorn's discs? > > a deep understanding of the resonance or "depth of story" Good, a serious response, thank you very much. These covers always bring to mind that THeads line, "this ain't no disco..." but sung with the gnashing of teeth. The images are always treated respectfully, proffered beautifully, as if they were a kind of gift -- a very serious gift. > 2) The cover of Painkiller's 'Buried Secrets'. Haven't seen this... Anyone have a scanner? > 3) The 'Grand Guignol' cover. A puzzling element > the nearly ornamental arabesque of the skull-carving (was someone just > fooling around? This is a photo from the Burns Collection (they've got a site, but I must've dumped the link last time I swept my bookmarks). It's called, surprise!, "Head on Platter." My own "depth of story" meanderings had me imagining it as the end-result of a torture session, probably Japan, probably WWII. Perhaps because of the many other Oriental images included with these discs... but anyway it's more "innocent" than that. A carving done by a Med-student in an anatomy lab. Almost makes me want to go back to school. It's the look on that man's face that floors me, as if he's about to say something. > (If so, another layer of meaning is added). The more the merrier. Anyone ever been to the Mutter Museum in Philadelphia? It's a museum of Medical Pathology, an incredible silencing place that drops people to their knees and makes them look agape at one another wordlessly and in awe. This head in particular puts me there. There's a long tradition of using body parts in "tableaux" from the early days of museums. There are a number of books (pictorial) on the subject, and in the last half of "Mr. Wilson's Cabinet of Wonder," author L. Weschler speaks extensively of these tableaux. > interior photo of the pile of legs and feet, by the way, echoes some > incredible paintings by Gericault, done as studies for his 'Raft of > the Medusa' around 1800. Where might I find these? > 4) Leng T'che. > the incredible expression on the victim's face which, again to me, > reads as ecstatic or even transcendant, YES! Thank you for this. > chaotic, awful, insane 'moment'...well, words > fail, hence the power of the image. And I often wonder what an unsuspecting neophyte makes of this cover. Does anyone unfamiliar w/ this release imagine the photo's *soundtrack*??? > Anyway, that's my take. Thanks Brian. Now does anyone have any references by that Zorn guy to this business? Oi, RL -- Marilyn Crispell, Susie Ibarra, Sam Rivers, Matthew Shipp, David S. Ware, and Reggie Workman discographies--Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things--Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL--etc., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k ***Very Various Music For Sale: ***http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cd <cappyd@uvic.ca> Subject: Re: Zorn Packaging/severedlimbs/tonguedskulls/etcetera Date: 28 Nov 1998 02:23:56 -0800 Don't the liner notes from "Torture Garden" indicate that the bondage pictures are from Zorn's personal collection? -cd - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Top 10 list Date: 28 Nov 1998 13:10:28 -0500 (EST) Arggh! No Top 10s on the list, svp. I think we determined last year that since each person here has such varied tastes, lists of his or her favorites are just a waste of bandwidth. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net you wrote: E-mail me privately, or if others would be interested we could open > this up as a discussion topic for the list. > Thanks alot in advance > Eric > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gene Natalia <anubis9@concentric.net> Subject: Re: lamp shea Date: 28 Nov 1998 22:14:06 -0800 I'm going to jump onto the tail end of this thread. I seem to be a David Shea completist and have what I believe to be everything of his, including that 12" of Land of Pure Illusions and the Mort Aux Vaches limited cd. I think he's brilliant, not just in his ability as a musician but in the way he manages to make seemingly unrelated genres fit together. He could put milk and lemon juice together and it wouldn't curdle. For instance, on his latest cd, Poem De Nuestra Signora, he beat boxes over a traditional European traditional music, and it sounds RIGHT. Anyway, for all those who hesitate to buy another Shea ablum, here is my suggestion: Shock Corridor, Prisoner, Classical Works, and I are all great, but the essential albums are Hsi-Yu Chi, Tower of Mirrors, Satyricon, The Poem De Nuestra Signora, and his collaboration with DJ Grazhoppa, Down River Up Stream. Those limited edition live "sub rosa session" discs that he shares with the likes of Scanner, Main, Charles Hayward, etc are all good, but the Shea tracks are the only ones worth keeping the cd's for. If you manage to find the Mort Au Vaches cd, POUNCE ON IT. It is two pieces for solo sampler, one from Hsi-Yu Chi and the other from Satyricon. Excellent. -Ethan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sulacco@aol.com Subject: jon Date: 29 Nov 1998 23:03:15 EST ok. so i just got the cd by jon (?) called smoke. it sounds like some 10 yr old making music in his (parents') living room. what's up with this guy? what's his story? i'm not knockin the cd, it just kinda hit me for a loop. any info appreciated. its on tzadik (i know) as part of the new japan series (i think). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "andrew johnny shay." <bobtj@wwa.com> Subject: braxton Date: 30 Nov 1998 00:26:18 -0600 (CST) A fast question. For the sake of the list replies should most likely be private. Where does one start with Braxton? Also...same question with regards to Tony Conrad. Lastly, how about some good musique concrete outings? Thanks for all suggestions, andy/ + andrew johnny shay bobtj@wwa.com ;; http://web.wwa.com/~bobtj/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be> Subject: Re: jon Date: 30 Nov 1998 10:08:20 +0100 >ok. so i just got the cd by jon (?) called smoke. it sounds like some 10 yr >old making music in his (parents') living room. what's up with this guy? >what's his story? i'm not knockin the cd, it just kinda hit me for a >loop. Well, I saw Jon live as part of the Tzadik showcase at the knit last year, and I can tell you she's a Japanese girl (aged 15-20 ?, hard to tell). She came on stage dressed up as Bambi and played the harmonium while singing, accompagned by a Japanes guy dressed as a horse playing toys and small percussion. (When the horse-guy came on stage, he couldn't see anything because of his mask, so he fell an dropped all his toys. Nobody dared to laugh since Zorn was in the frontrow, looking very serious and malicious). The performance was as dada as the CD, so I still don't know whether it's a another joke by Zorn or actually she means what she's doing. Last thing I heard of her (on the late Tzadik gossip-page) was that she married last year. (more gossip on this list !!!!) Another CD to convince your friends you are wasting your money ! YVes - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: numbat@vianet.net.au (Sibree/Wilkes) Subject: JAZZ LP AUCTION - ZORN CONTENT Date: 30 Nov 1998 17:51:54 +0800 A reminder that my latest auction list closes on December 4. Email me for details. Regards, Billy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: braxton Date: 30 Nov 1998 09:42:00 -0600 (CST) On Mon, 30 Nov 1998, andrew johnny shay. wrote: > Where does one start with Braxton? Also...same question with regards to > Tony Conrad. A representative single-disc of Conrad is his "Slapping Pythagoras", which I think is on Table of the Elements. To my ears, his sound is rather, um, consistent, so if you can handle RealZudio, the samples at http://www.tonyconrad.com/ should give you a good idea what he sounds like. - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: braxton Date: 30 Nov 1998 09:58:45 -0800 At 12:26 AM 11/30/98, andrew johnny shay. wrote: >A fast question. >For the sake of the list replies should most likely be private. > >Where does one start with Braxton? Any of the Crispell/Dresser/Hemingway quartet CD's would be an excellent place to start, as I consider them the finest stuff Braxton's done, perhaps some of the finest "jazz" ever. The "Willisau" CD's on Hat Art are particularly great. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: braxton Date: 30 Nov 1998 14:44:57 -0500 At 12:26 AM 11/30/98, andrew johnny shay. wrote: >Where does one start with Braxton? I know, I know, it's a list, but dammit it's Braxton and he's worth it! *ahem* My dozen most beloved releases: New York, Fall, 1974 Arista * Dortmund (Quartet) 1976 hat Hut For Alto Delmark * Trio + Duet Sackville * Willisau (Quartet) 1991 hat Art 7 Compositions (Trio) 1989 hat Art Sax Improvisations-Series F Inner City * Compositions 10 + 16 (+101) hat [now] 19 (Solo) Compositions 1988 New Albion Eight (+3) Tristano Comps hat Art Creative Orchestra (Koln) 1978 hat Art Solo (London) 1988 Leo * unavailable on CD, as far as I know. Ah, that feels better.... Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vlad-Drac@webtv.net (Theo Klaase) Subject: Naked CIty Date: 30 Nov 1998 15:44:18 -0600 (CST) Does JZ use digital editing when recording the Naked City albums? Also, does someone have a complete list of absolutely everything Naked City has put out. }Theodorus-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org> Subject: Re: Naked CIty Date: 30 Nov 1998 17:02:16 -0500 (EST) > Does JZ use digital editing when recording the Naked City albums? Digital editing wasn't really an affordable option when Naked City was making albums. It's all live, my friend. That was the point. :) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | | | | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | | | | UMD school of music | | | | m-e-t-a-t-r-o-n p-r-e-s-s | | | http://www.artswire.org/comma | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Mason Wendell" <fist@erols.com> Subject: RE: Naked CIty Date: 30 Nov 1998 23:05:36 -0500 SXQncyBhbGwgbGl2ZSBhbmQgcmVjb3JkZWQgaW4gYSBraXRjaGVuIDspDQoNCldoZW4gd2UgZGlk IG91ciByZWNvcmRpbmcgKE11c2ljIGZvciBDaGlsZHJlbi1wbHVnKSBhdCB0aGUgc2FtZSBzdHVk aW8gWm9ybiByZWNvcmRlZCBUb3J0dXJlIEdhcmRlbiwgd2UgZ290IHRoZSBzY29vcCBvbiBob3cg dGhlIG9yaWdpbmFsIHdhcyBkb25lLiBBbGwgbGl2ZSwgYnV0IHdpdGggc29tZSBwdW5jaC1pbnMu IFdoZW4gdGhleSBoYWQgdG8gZG8gYSBwdW5jaC1pbiwgdGhleSB3b3UgcmVjb3JkIGEgdHJhY2sg bGlrZSB0aGlzOg0KDQp8c2Fsc2F8cm9ja3wgPGVtcHR5PiB8ZnVua3wgYW5kIHNvIG9uLg0KDQp0 aGVuIHRoZXkgd291bGQgZ28gYmFjayBhbmQgcHVuY2gtaW4gdGhlIGVtcHR5IGJhciBsaWtlIHRo aXM6DQoNCnwgLS0tIHwgLS0gfCBjb3VudHJ5IHwgLS0gfA0KDQpJIGltYWdpbmUgaXQgd2FzIHBy ZXR0eSB0b3VnaCB0byBkbyB0aG9zZSBwdW5jaGVzIGFuZCBrZWVwIGl0IHRpZ2h0IHdoaWxlIG1h aW50YWluaW5nIHRoZSBmbG93IG9mIHRoZSBtdXNpYywgYnV0IHRoZXkgZGlkIHN1Y2ggYSBnb29k IGpvYiBhbmQgSSBoYXZlbid0IGZvdW5kIGFueSBvYnZpb3VzIHNlYW1zLg0KDQpKb2V5IHdhcyBz ZXR1cCBpbiB0aGUga2l0Y2hlbiBmb3IgdGhlIG5hdHVyYWwgcmV2ZXJiIG9mIGxpbm9sZXVtIGFu ZCBwbGFzdGVyLiBJdCBzb3VuZGVkIGdyZWF0IGJ1dCB3YXMgYSBuaWdodG1hcmUgdG8gd2lyZSBh bmQgYW5kIHRvIGNvbW11bmljYXRlLiBCaXNpICh0aGUgZW5naW5lZXIpIHNhaWQgaXQgd2FzIGp1 c3QgdG9vIG11Y2ggaGFzc2xlIGFuZCB3b24ndCBkbyBpdCBhZ2Fpbi4NCg0KV2UgZGlkIG91ciBz ZXNzaW9ucyBhbGwgbGl2ZSBhbmQgdXNlZCBvdmVyZHVicyBzcGFyaW5nbHkuIE1vc3RseSBmb3Ig c21hbGwgdGVjaG5pY2FsIGZpeGVzIGFuZCB0aGUgcmVhbCBwaWFubyBwYXJ0cyB0aGF0IHdlcmUg cGxheWVkIGluIGFub3RoZXIgcm9vbS4gSWYgYW55b25lJ3MgaW50ZXJlc3RlZC4NCg0KTWFzb24g ZnJvbSBQcmVsYXBzZQ0KDQoNCg0KfHwgTWFzb24gV2VuZGVsbA0KfHwgZmlzdEBlcm9scy5jb20N Cnx8IEJsaW5kZXItIGh0dHA6Ly93d3cuYmxpbmRlci5wYWlyLmNvbQ0KfHwgU2lnbW9pZCBGbGV4 dXJlLSBMb3VkIEZyZWUgSW1wcm92DQp8fCBQcmVsYXBzZS0gQ0Qgb3V0IG5vdyEgaHR0cDovL3d3 dy5jZG5vdy5jb20vY2dpLWJpbi9tc2VydmVyL1NJRD05OTU2NDAzNDAvcGFnZW5hbWU9L1JQL0NE Ti9DTEFTUy9tdXplYWxidW0uaHRtbC9kZGNuPVNELTIzOTc3KzczMjErMg0KDQoNCg0KPiAtLS0t LU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiBGcm9tOiBvd25lci16b3JuLWxpc3RAbGlzdHMueG1p c3Npb24uY29tDQo+IFttYWlsdG86b3duZXItem9ybi1saXN0QGxpc3RzLnhtaXNzaW9uLmNvbV1P biBCZWhhbGYgT2YgTWF0dGhldyBSb3NzDQo+IERhdmlzDQo+IFNlbnQ6IE1vbmRheSwgTm92ZW1i ZXIgMzAsIDE5OTggNTowMiBQTQ0KPiBUbzogVGhlbyBLbGFhc2UNCj4gQ2M6IHpvcm4tbGlzdEBs aXN0cy54bWlzc2lvbi5jb20NCj4gU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IE5ha2VkIENJdHkNCj4gDQo+IA0KPiA+ IERvZXMgSlogdXNlIGRpZ2l0YWwgZWRpdGluZyB3aGVuIHJlY29yZGluZyB0aGUgTmFrZWQgQ2l0 eSBhbGJ1bXM/DQo+IA0KPiBEaWdpdGFsIGVkaXRpbmcgd2Fzbid0IHJlYWxseSBhbiBhZmZvcmRh YmxlIG9wdGlvbiB3aGVuIE5ha2VkIENpdHkgd2FzDQo+IG1ha2luZyBhbGJ1bXMuDQo+IA0KPiBJ dCdzIGFsbCBsaXZlLCBteSBmcmllbmQuIFRoYXQgd2FzIHRoZSBwb2ludC4gOikNCg0KDQoNCg0K PiANCj4gfCB8IHwgfCB8IHwgfCB8IHwgfCB8IHwgfCB8IHwgfCB8IHwgfCB8IHwgfCB8IHwgfCB8 IHwgfCB8IHwgfCB8IHwgfCB8DQo+IHwgfCBtIC0gYSAtIHQgLSB0IC0gaCAtIGUgLSB3IHwgciAt IG8gLSBzIC0gcyB8IGQgLSBhIC0gdiAtIGkgLSBzIHwgfA0KPiB8IHwgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5hcnRz d2lyZS5vcmcvbXJkIHwgfCB8IHwgfCB8IHwgVU1EIHNjaG9vbCBvZiBtdXNpYyB8IHwNCj4gfCB8 IG0tZS10LWEtdC1yLW8tbiBwLXItZS1zLXMgfCB8IHwgaHR0cDovL3d3dy5hcnRzd2lyZS5vcmcv Y29tbWEgfCB8DQo+IHwgfCB8IHwgfCB8IHwgfCB8IHwgfCB8IHwgfCB8IHwgfCB8IHwgfCB8IHwg fCB8IHwgfCB8IHwgfCB8IHwgfCB8IHwgfA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IC0NCj4g - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Given <dlgiven@julian.uwo.ca> Subject: Re: Brian's Braxton favs Date: 01 Dec 1998 00:07:00 -0500 >Date: Mon, 30 Nov 98 14:44:57 -0500 >From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu >Subject: Re[2]: braxton > >At 12:26 AM 11/30/98, andrew johnny shay. wrote: > >>Where does one start with Braxton? > > I know, I know, it's a list, but dammit it's Braxton and he's worth > it! *ahem* My dozen most beloved releases: > > New York, Fall, 1974 Arista * > Dortmund (Quartet) 1976 hat Hut > For Alto Delmark * > Trio + Duet Sackville * > Willisau (Quartet) 1991 hat Art > 7 Compositions (Trio) 1989 hat Art > Sax Improvisations-Series F Inner City * > Compositions 10 + 16 (+101) hat [now] > 19 (Solo) Compositions 1988 New Albion > Eight (+3) Tristano Comps hat Art > Creative Orchestra (Koln) 1978 hat Art > Solo (London) 1988 Leo > > * unavailable on CD, as far as I know. > > Ah, that feels better.... > Solo (London) 1988 on Leo ? Hmmm, I'm not aware of this one. Are you sure this is on Leo, and not... what? Impetus maybe? Also, what a cruel joke to not put the * beside 7 Compositions, because though once available, it might be one of the hardest Braxton CDs to get these days. It was worth the hunt for me, but I doubt many will still be able to find it. I wouldn't change Brian's list much, but would add that the duet with Georg Graewe on OKKA is really good. And the Quartet Santa Cruz set on Hat, the last performance of the band with Hemingway, Crispell, and Dresser, is also great, and somewhat cheaper than Willisau. But once you get one, you'll want the other. Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Brian's Braxton favs Date: 01 Dec 1998 00:25:16 -0500 Dan Given wrote: > Also, what a cruel joke to not put the * beside 7 Compositions, because > though once available, it might be one of the hardest Braxton CDs to get > these days. It was worth the hunt for me, but I doubt many will still be > able to find it. FWIW, Cadence lists a lot of hatWhatever recordings that are otherwise unavailable, so maybe North Country has some stashed away (though my scanning eye didn't see this one). See http://cadencebuilding.com/ > I wouldn't change Brian's list much, but would add that the duet with Georg > Graewe on OKKA is really good. And the Quartet Santa Cruz set on Hat, the > last performance of the band with Hemingway, Crispell, and Dresser, is also > great, and somewhat cheaper than Willisau. But once you get one, you'll > want the other. Well, I've momentarily (I hope) broken my self-imposed CD fast and ordered Willisau. Much as I'm fascinated by what I read about Braxton (I have five books on him at this point!), his music has never quite clicked for me, so I'm hoping that this will serve as the auditory Holy Rosetta Grail Stone... -- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Brian's Braxton favs Date: 01 Dec 1998 00:44:08 EST In a message dated 12/1/98 12:26:59 AM, jzitt@humansystems.com wrote: <<> Also, what a cruel joke to not put the * beside 7 Compositions, because > though once available, it might be one of the hardest Braxton CDs to get > these days. It was worth the hunt for me, but I doubt many will still be > able to find it. FWIW, Cadence lists a lot of hatWhatever recordings that are otherwise unavailable, so maybe North Country has some stashed away (though my scanning eye didn't see this one). See http://cadencebuilding.com/>> I've never seen this one listed in Cadence since the first edition of the Penguin Guide called it the best intro to Braxton. speaking of the Penguin Guide, anyone know when the new edition is going to be released here in the US? it's out overseas already. and speaking of Cadence, Walter Horn gives the best review I've ever seen in there to Simon Fell's _Compilation III: Composition 30_ in the new December issue. this is the same Fell record I was raving about here a month or two ago. the following are a few selected quotes from Horn's review: "the monumental Composition No. 30 is, in my view, an important monument in the history of late 20th century music." "In this single piece one finds not only Ives, Webern, Cage, Ligeti, Partch and Boulez, but also Ellington, Mingus, Sousa, Sun Ra, and even a little urban blues. It's as if all of Braxton's varied and copious output were microscoped into one audacious work for large ensemble." "Fell seems to me to have created a piece of music on the level of Boulez' Pli Selon Pli and Ives' Holiday Symphony. It's what Bernstein and Berio may have been trying (unsuccessfully) to do with their Mass and Sinfonia (respectively) and what Ornette Coleman and Butch Morris are striving for in Skies Of America and in countless large ensemble 'conductions'. Fell's Composition No. 30 is nothing less than a summing up and distillation of the experimental strains of Western music at the end of the millennium. It's a resounding success." and it ends with: "Composition No. 30 should not only be considered as one of the top ten recordings of the year, but (Move over all you Cardews, Birtwhistles and Ferneyhoughs!) as one of the most important musical works to come out of Britain since the Sixties." Jon -