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From: "Landon Thorpe" <landocal@mail.utexas.edu> Subject: Thank you all Date: 01 Oct 1998 02:13:50 -0500 Hey everyone, I'd just like to say thank you for the threads of the past several days. I've been ignoring my Zorn-list-digests for about the past 10 days. Tonight I've tried catching up with the 20 (!) digests that came in that time. I'm so sorry I've missed out on the threads concerning collection and literature. I'd like to say that I'm feeling more human after having read that there are other people out there that buy more music than they can listen to, read _High Fidelity_, appreciate Nabokov, Joyce, DeLillo, Delany, and Fowles, and listen to Eno/Byrne and Neubauten (anyone heard _Ende Neu_ or know where to find it?). Speaking of Eno/Byrne and _My Life . . ._--tonight I spent probably the 4th most boring time of my life watching UNKLE at Waterloo Records (In Austin) do some fancy DJ stuff. I was merely dozing until he let part of a track from _My Life_ go on for about 30 seconds or more and doing little to augment it. I found myself outraged. How many people left that in-store thinking that UNKLE was bad-ass because of this section? Arrrgh. I guess that's the nature of DJing, though. Playing other people's records. Anyway, thanks for bringing me out of mostly lurking for the past 2+ years. Landon Thorpe P.S.: If I go back into hiding, it's because I'm still stuck in _Ulysses_ (sans annotations). Anyone have any advice about tackling this for the first time? I'm 240 pages into it, but it has taken a long time! P.P.S.: Anyone enjoying Kreidler's _Appearance and The Park_ as much as I am? P.P.P.S.: Speaking recently of EA--any opinions on O'Rourke's pieces? Like "Mere" from _Disengage_. L - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Felix" <jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt> Subject: Re: Dave Douglas Date: 30 Sep 1998 23:22:03 +0100 >Hello Zornies! > >I'd like any thoughts and recommendations on Dave Douglas' cds. I have >Masada 8 and 9, Five (with the string group) and amazing Tiny Bell's >Live in Europe. >BTW, I have listened to a couple of tracks from Patricia Barber's Modern >Cool (Premonition) and not only she is great but Dave's participation is >outstanding. >So, what follow?/where to continue?/ what to pick up next? >You can email me privately if you want. > >-Hugo Well, Masada 7 also has a wonderful Douglas. Charms of the Night Sky just didn't have it for me - the tunes are really nice, but it really gets "radio friendly" sometimes. Stargazer is good, a nice homage to Wayne Shorter. Then there two non-Douglas albums but which feature him that I totally recommend: The first is John Lindberg's "Bounce" of which I already talked about. Douglas plays absolutely wonderfully during the whole of the album. The second one is the Caine/Mahler album on W&W, "Primal Light/Ulricht". This is one of my favourite albums ever, featuring Douglas, J. Baron, M. Feldman, A. Lindsay, and a bunch of others. Really good. I can't exactly reccomned you anything because I don't know that much Douglas - I still have to get Tiny Bell Trio... But any of the above seems nice to me, except maybe for Charms of the Night Sky... Felix jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gene Natalia <anubis9@concentric.net> Subject: Re: Gabriela Date: 01 Oct 1998 01:02:54 -0700 At 07:23 PM 9/30/98 EDT, you wrote: >I picked up a CD by the guitarist/vocalist Gabriela yesterday from a= cheapie >bin, mainly because of the musicians in support on the CD. They include= Bill >Frisell, Rob Berger, Bill Douglass, Alex Acu=F1a, and Eyvind Kang. Gabriel= a has >a sensual earthy/smokey alto voice- a perfect match to the melodic Latino- >flavored folk music on the CD. I got that cd used as well, since I'm a fan of Frisell and even moreso, Eyvind Kang, but was tremendously disappointed with it. It was just immensely boring. All those wonderful musicians are wasted on an album that, hard as I tried, I just couldn't find anything remarkable about. Imagine Latin Enya. I sent mine back to the used bins. Ethan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J.T. de Boer" <J.T.de.Boer@let.rug.nl> Subject: Re: Dave Douglas Date: 01 Oct 1998 10:36:12 +0200 "Constellations" by the Tiny Bell Trio i.m.o is a classic in the Dave Douglas-oeuvre. Furthermore you should take a listen to "Charms of the Night Sky". I picked it up last weekend and it's one of the most intimate albums I have. Douglas plays phenomenal, accompanied by Guy Clusevec, Mark Feldman and Greg Cohen. Great record! Jeroen > > > >On Wed, 30 Sep 1998 hulinare@bemberg.com.ar wrote: > > > > > >> I'd like any thoughts and recommendations on Dave Douglas' cds. I have > > >> Masada 8 and 9, Five (with the string group) and amazing Tiny Bell's > > >> Live in Europe. > > > > > >Sanctuary, Stargazer, and In Our Lifetime are essential. ESSENTIAL! > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francisco Fonz-GarcΘs" <m145651202@abonados.cplus.es> Subject: Re: Dave Douglas Date: 01 Oct 1998 12:13:12 +0200 > >On Wed, 30 Sep 1998 hulinare@bemberg.com.ar wrote: > > I'd like any thoughts and recommendations on Dave Douglas' cds. I have > > Masada 8 and 9, Five (with the string group) and amazing Tiny Bell's > > Live in Europe. > My favourite Douglas' works are Sanctuary (Avant), Five (Soul Note) -both already quoted- and his early (and only, I think) apparition on The Mosaic Sextet: "Today, This Moment" (Konnex 1994) with Mark Feldman, Joe Fonda and others. A great disc. Paco Fonz - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: West Coast Masada Date: 01 Oct 1998 11:06:56 GMT0BST I was disappointed to find out the truth about this. I rather liked the idea of Shorty Rogers, Bud Shank, Joe Mondragon and Chico Hamilton playing Katzatz, Zebdi, Janohah, Lachish, Ziphim, etc. It sounds great in my head ... I'll have to settle for Masada Play the Gerry Mulligan quartet songbook instead. Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #479? 480? Date: 01 Oct 1998 11:10:43 GMT0BST If we were entirely products of our environment, or our genes, or our upbringing, then the assertion that we were products of our (fill in the blank) would just be another product of our (fill in the blank) and anybody's agreement with it would just be a product of their own (fill in the blank) ... Such a view doesn't seem extreme, or radical, but simply incoherent. Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Alan Shorter Date: 01 Oct 1998 12:31:05 GMT0BST He also plays on one track (which he wrote) of brother Wayne's "The All Seeing Eye". Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Filing Date: 01 Oct 1998 12:37:35 GMT0BST Heh heh, I love being 12 digests behind, just so's I can start up again on what's pissed half the folks off: 1) Get rid of all "collectively" made albums, unless they have a group name. (You can decide that one guy or gal is REALLY the main act if that's too painful) 2) Get rid of everything by somebody who doesn't have a PROPER anglo- saxon name, or something you can translate into that system. This is where I fall down as I can't bear to part with my RA, Sun albums: therefore - 3) File everything under M for music, unless it isn't. This way you have lots of space at either end of the alphabet. Keepin it simple, Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar Subject: Gabriela Date: 01 Oct 1998 10:06:01 -0300 Nice to read something about Gabriela. As fas as I know, guitar player Pino Marrone, her husband, said that Gabriela fell in love with Frisell's song Rambler; then she wrote a letter to producer Lee Townshed just to ask for permission to include that song in her cd. Bill asked for a tape of her stuff and not only he accepted her offer but wanted to be included as a musician. I didn't listen to the cd but I read a good review in Jazztimes; beyond any opinion I'll get my copy in the next future. "Tell me people Am I going insane?" Ozzy Osbourne As Frisell plays in this cd, isn't it a Zorn related subject? Please any light. Later, Hugo - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "hijk" <hijk@gateway.net> Subject: RE: Filing Date: 01 Oct 1998 09:24:16 -0400 "File everything under M." We have a winner. Jeff Kent - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dennis summers <denniss@ic.net> Subject: PK Dick, "Who Cares" and whatever non-zorn content I can think Date: 01 Oct 1998 08:16:02 -0600 Whew, I go away for a few days (paradoxically after a fairly slow period on the list) and I come back to a huge number of digests. So some of my comments are coming a bit late. First of all regarding "lurkers." I've become mostly a lurker, in direct relationship to the increasing number of members on this list. I find that as I read through the digest, formulating my letters as I go along, someone else has already said what I intended to, by the time I come to the end of the digest. So why bother. Second, regarding the water-hole nature of the list. I'm responding now, because even though it's been said (even better) before, the importance of this debate has come to what appears to be a vote of sorts, and I want my vote to be counted. I vote for the watering hole, and que sera sera. In fact when the Dick conversation started, not only did a big smile come to my face (because Dick is one of my faves) but I appreciated that it seems that as a group we seem to share a general aesthetic which crosses media. But not only that, there is still enough significant differences to make things interesting. For example, I don't like Bill Laswell's work, and I don't like Don Dellilo's work. But I've checked them both out, because they seem to fit the general aesthetic that I find myself in. Whereas, for example I have never read a Harlequin Romance, nor listened to that band of 3 teenage brothers. Third, regarding Dick's non SF work, I own and have read almost everything Dick has written, including the non SF stuff. And my take on those books are that they suffer from the same lack of literary style that all of his books suffer from. Also they tend to be very much about human relationships and not cosmic mind-blowing philosophy. That said I still enjoy them because almost all of his books are permeated by Dick's attention to the little things that make us human, in an uncaring world. The tragedy is it could be called that of Dick's literature, is the tragedy of his private life. I believe that Dick had the ability to give his writing the style we demand of "high art" (as seen in a few of his books), and if his temperment was more like say Pynchon's we'd have less books, but better ones. Although I do wish Pynchon could write just a little bit more. WARNING ZORN CONTENT FOLLOWS. This brings me to JZ. His output is very Dicklike in the sense of its volume and variety. Some have argued that his quality suffers because of this. I'm sure that he's not getting rich off of this, but does anyone have an idea if Zorn produces so much, in order to make more money like Dick did? Or just cause he doesn't sleep at night? yours in zornocity --ds ***Quantum Dance Works*** ****http://ic.net/~denniss**** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris Barrett" <cbarrett@neaq.org> Subject: Re: PK Dick, Richard Ford and other non-Zorn, non-music content of Date: 01 Oct 1998 10:39:53 -0400 >Third, regarding Dick's non SF work, I own and have read almost everything >Dick has written, including the non SF stuff. And my take on those books are >that they suffer from the same lack of literary style that all of his books >suffer from. Also they tend to be very much about human relationships and >not cosmic mind-blowing philosophy. That said I still enjoy them because >almost all of his books are permeated by Dick's attention to the little >things that make us human, in an uncaring world. Which is what I love most about Dick too. And on that topic, has anyone read any Richard Ford? I reveived "Women With Men" as a gift and thought that the 3 short stories were remarkable for the emotional depth of the characters and their interactions. Then I find out he won a Pulitzer a couple of years ago for "Independence Day", which I'm s'pposed to read for a book discussion group.....Anyone read it or any Richard Ford? Any thoughts? Ahhh, yet another tangent to go off on.... -Chris - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Re: Richard Ford Date: 01 Oct 1998 10:46:35 -0400 At 10:39 AM 10/1/98 -0400, Chris Barrett wrote: > >Which is what I love most about Dick too. And on that topic, has anyone >read any Richard Ford? I reveived "Women With Men" as a gift and thought >that the 3 short stories were remarkable for the emotional depth of the >characters and their interactions. Then I find out he won a Pulitzer a >couple of years ago for "Independence Day", which I'm s'pposed to read for >a book discussion group.....Anyone read it or any Richard Ford? Any >thoughts? I read it, also for a book group, a few years ago. Although it's lengthy, it has a leisurely quality that I enjoyed. And, more than any other novel I have ever read, there is a defining moment about two-thirds of the way through, after which everything changes. A remarkable achievement. Independence Day is a continuation of an earlier novel, the Sportswriter, but I had not read that and don't believe it would be required for an appreciation. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers -- Pablo Picasso - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Touch Of Evil Date: 01 Oct 1998 12:46:02 GMT0BST Jon Abbey was off to see the re-edited version of this. How was it Jon? By the way, has anyone here seen the 1945 cut of The Big Sleep, pulled when To Have And (To) Have Not went down a storm, and they decided to beef up Bacall's role. It came round last year when I was away on holiday. Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Turner <mturner@netcom.com> Subject: Re: Elvis C., Burt B., and... Bill Frisell? Date: 01 Oct 1998 08:29:21 -0700 (PDT) > > << For those who have been wondering when Bill Frisell was going to make > an appearance in their city anytime soon, we here at Songline / Tone > Field, wanted to let you know that he has taken this year "off" from > touring and spent the last 6 months (and will spend the next 5 or 6) in > a state of hyper productivity. Maybe so, but he's doing solo shows in the Bay Area this weekend. -- Mark Turner | "Jazzadelica" with Rocky Rococo on KFJC mturner@netcom.com | Sundays 10pm-2am, 89.7 FM, Los Altos Hills, CA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: Touch Of Evil Date: 01 Oct 1998 11:55:44 -0400 (EDT) On Thu, 1 Oct 1998, DR S WILKIE wrote: > Jon Abbey was off to see the re-edited version of this. How was it > Jon? just go see it. the re-edit adds a real clarifying linearity to the storyline. it's much edgier than the original edit. > By the way, has anyone here seen the 1945 cut of The Big Sleep, > pulled when To Have And (To) Have Not went down a storm, and they > decided to beef up Bacall's role. It came round last year when I was > away on holiday. "big sleep" is without a doubt the most convoluted storyline in film noir and while the re-edit managed to extricate the plot somewhat, it is really best just to enjoy the cinematography and interplay between bogart and bacall. from what i remember, i liked the new edit a little bit better than the original. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Touch Of Evil Date: 01 Oct 1998 09:06:13 -0700 On Thu, 1 Oct 1998 11:55:44 -0400 (EDT) Brent Burton wrote: > > "big sleep" is without a doubt the most convoluted storyline in film > noir and while the re-edit managed to extricate the plot somewhat, it Even William Faulkner could not answer the question about who killed the driver!!! Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris Barre{t" <cbarrett@neaq.org> Subject: was Re: Touch Of Evil, now "Big Sleep" and still no Zorn Date: 01 Oct 1998 12:18:25 -0400 >"big sleep" is without a doubt the most convoluted storyline in film >noir and while the re-edit managed to extricate the plot somewhat, it >is really best just to enjoy the cinematography and interplay between >bogart and bacall. from what i remember, i liked the new edit a little >bit better than the original. > >b > >- Haven't seen the new (or old) edit yet. Is it out on video? I love this movie, but everytime I see it I remember how confusing the plot (and convoluted) really is. The whole Bogey-Bacall thing here though is pretty extraordinary. "That's what the man said, he said that." -Chris - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Touch Of Evil Date: 01 Oct 1998 12:35:02 EDT In a message dated 10/1/98 11:58:50 AM, bburton@CapAccess.org wrote: <<> Jon Abbey was off to see the re-edited version of this. How was it > Jon? just go see it. the re-edit adds a real clarifying linearity to the storyline. it's much edgier than the original edit. >> agreed. although I haven't seen the old version in years, and I didn't feel like the changes were quite as massive as I thought they might be. but it's highly recommended, especially if you get to see it on a screen bigger than the minscule one at Film Forum in NYC. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lou Smith <lousmith@pipeline.com> Subject: Raymond Scott Date: 01 Oct 1998 12:35:50 -0500 The best place to go for Raymond Scott details and info is the official web site: <http://RaymondScott.com> or the web site for Basta Records, who've issued many Scott projects: <http://www.basta.nl> There are 2 other volumes of Soothing Sounds For Baby available -- you can hear clips at the RaymondScott.com site. Basta is set to release a 2-CD collection of more RS electronic recordings, called Manhattan Research Inc. And discussion of Scott is sorta on-topic, in that Zorn has sampled Scott in live performance, and he has discussed the possibility of his releasing even more of Scott's electronic recordings after Basta issues MRI. -Lou Smith >Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 21:06:42 -0700 >From: Joe Tait <tait@pdq.net> >Subject: Raymond Scott >Sort of off-topic, but figured someone would know.... >I recently picked up the columbia reissue of Raymond Scott's "Reckless >Nights and Turkish Twilights" as well as "Sounds for Baby Vol.1" and was >wondering if there are any other releases of his in print (and what they >sound like), as well as how the other Sounds for Baby compare to the >first. >Thanks, >Joe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: ???? & How many CDs does Zorn sell? Date: 01 Oct 1998 13:34:23 -0400 (EDT) Sean Wilkie wrote: > > If we were entirely products of our environment, or our genes, or our > upbringing, then the assertion that we were products of our (fill in > the blank) would just be another product of our (fill in the blank) > and anybody's agreement with it would just be a product of their > own (fill in the blank) ... Such a view doesn't seem extreme, or > radical, but simply incoherent. ???? Is this about the Masada/exotica thread by any chance? > Someone else (sorry, I cut it) wrote: > WARNING ZORN CONTENT FOLLOWS. > This brings me to JZ. His output is very Dicklike in the sense of its volume > and variety. Some have argued that his quality suffers because of this. I'm > sure that he's not getting rich off of this, but does anyone have an idea if > Zorn produces so much, in order to make more money like Dick did? Or just > cause he doesn't sleep at night? Does anyone have any idea how many of these things he sells? I know that the Naked City CD (1st one) has passed 70,000 supposedly, but what about the other stuff? Is the market in Japan that much more than here in the U.S., that is enough to warrant his releasing the big sellers like Masada + Naked City there? OTOH, I saw in the hatArt catalog that the News for Lulu CDs are only borderline unavailable (1 is, isn't, but Cadence has them both). Those were limited ed. 2000 pressings weren't they? Just wondering who buys all these things. (I have 8 and got four of them used). WY - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nils <jacobson@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu> Subject: Re: Dave Douglas Date: 01 Oct 1998 14:19:15 -0500 Something people have not mentioned yet is the Songlines duet record with Han Bennink, Serpentine. I continue to enjoy it regularly, though it lacks the complexity of some of these other larger group recordings. n - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nils <jacobson@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu> Subject: Re: filing Date: 01 Oct 1998 14:22:13 -0500 > "File everything under M." > > : We have a winner. To be honest, the Entropy System, as I term this method of organization, is my preferred method for organizing the music. It keeps the odds and ends from being forgotten. n - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris Barrett" <cbarrett@neaq.org> Subject: Re: filing, still no JZ Date: 01 Oct 1998 14:51:41 -0400 >To be honest, the Entropy System, as I term this method of organization, is my >preferred method for organizing the music. It keeps the odds and ends >from being >forgotten. > >n Until recently, this is the method I used, mostly because of taunts from my girlfriend (you're not *really* going to alphabetize them, are you?). When I did she'd do her best to sabotage it...y'know, leaving big piles of CDs out of place, mis-filing them on purpose and giggling the whole time. While I managed to finally break her of the habit of (gasp) leaving CDs out of the cases, lying around, or (even worse) putting the CDs in whatever case was closest no matter how many Cds it contained, I could never get any further. Of course, for all her taunting, she was the one who could never find what she was looking for, often for days or weeks at a time, til she'd break down and ask me.... Now she's gone back to school and lives in a different city. The first thing I did back at the apartment was alphabetize them and catagorize them a bit (though I suspect not as thoroughly as a few here) and not only can I not believe how easy it is to find stuff (they were all filed under "L" for Living Room, "B" for Bedroom or "OL" for On Loan) and how much stuff I haven't listened to years. Of course, I wish I had done this before I loaned many of the CDs I have loaned out, cuz it would be easier to remember at least what I have out on loan. I know, I know, I'm gonna be told I should have a sign out sheet with due dates....at least that's what my new roommate said she'd do..... -Chris - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: OC-Boxoffice. Date: 01 Oct 1998 19:16:30 -0400 (EDT) If it's the film I'm thinking of, I was able to rent it from a now-defunct video spot a few years back. It's a 1970s muddled show biz tragedy, anti-abortion, musical. OC's "soundtrack" isn't that clear, but there is a scene where he and his band (a version of Prime Time) suddenly appear playing in the midst of a party scene. Other than that, a porno would probably be a more interesting viewing experience. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Thu, 1 Oct 1998, Joseph Zitt wrote: > Adam MacGregor wrote: > > > Did Cherry not contribute the soundtrack for Jodorowsky's "The Holy Mountain?" > > I seem to remember it being in a very eastern musical vein...excellent though... > > Only quasi-relatedly: A while back, Ornette Coleman did the soundtrack > a movie named "Box Office". After reading a review of it in Variety > when it played a film festival or something, I haven't heard anything > about it. imdb.com doesn't seem to list it. Did I hallucinate its > existence? Is the movie or soundtrack available anywhere? > > -- > ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- > |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| > ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| > |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: West Coast Masada Date: 01 Oct 1998 19:20:59 -0400 (EDT) If you can find Shorty Rogers playing anywhere these days you have the sort of "connections" all of us would admire. A more appropriate group for WC Masada would probably have to include Shelly Manne and Terry Gibbs for their pioneering "Jewish jazz" sessions. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Thu, 1 Oct 1998, DR S WILKIE wrote: > I was disappointed to find out the truth about this. I rather liked > the idea of Shorty Rogers, Bud Shank, Joe Mondragon and Chico > Hamilton playing Katzatz, Zebdi, Janohah, Lachish, Ziphim, etc. > It sounds great in my head ... I'll have to settle for Masada Play > the Gerry Mulligan quartet songbook instead. > > Sean Wilkie > > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Filing Date: 01 Oct 1998 20:25:22 EDT In a message dated 10/1/98 8:36:22 AM Eastern Daylight Time, S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk writes: > 3) File everything under M for music, unless it isn't. This way you > have lots of space at either end of the alphabet. Unless it's noise, then it goes under "N." You realize this could go on for quite a while...;-) =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Gabriela Date: 01 Oct 1998 20:25:24 EDT In a message dated 10/1/98 9:07:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time, hulinare@bemberg.com.ar writes: > Nice to read something about Gabriela. > As fas as I know, guitar player Pino Marrone, her husband, said that > Gabriela fell in love with Frisell's song Rambler; then she wrote a > letter to producer Lee Townshed just to ask for permission to include > that song in her cd. > Bill asked for a tape of her stuff and not only he accepted her offer > but wanted to be included as a musician. > I didn't listen to the cd but I read a good review in Jazztimes; beyond > any opinion I'll get my copy in the next future. I've been a fan of Cenrtal/South American native folk and pop music for a while, so this Gabriela CD was a buy for me despite the other musicians, though their inclusion made me snatch it out of the bin a bit quicker. Admittedly though, it's not everyone's cup o' tea, i'm sure. > As Frisell plays in this cd, isn't it a Zorn related subject? > Please any light. Sorry- my version of tongue in cheek a/o being a smartass. =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stefan Verstraeten <stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be> Subject: eugene chadbourne drum 'n' bass Date: 02 Oct 1998 11:38:50 +0100 Dear Zornies, Yestarday, I picked up some great albums by Eugene Chadbourne: -Total Tuesday (crazy live recordings from a Switzerland/Holland tour) -Insect and western (leo records, fully improvised) But I am looking for the following album: Jungle Cookies (on old gold records) I was told that the album really kicks. Apperently, chadbourne did the same stuff as derek bailey on the 'guitar, drum 'n' bass album'. So, my question is, does someone know of an online distributor for this album. I live in Belgium (Europe) and found out that the 'old gold' label doesn't have a distributor here in Belgium. Can someone help me on this please. Best wishes, -- Stefan Verstraeten - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Vanheumen, Robert" <rvanheumen@intsysserv.com> Subject: Bar Kokhba Date: 02 Oct 1998 10:13:13 -0400 hi yesterday i was at the Bar Kokhba concert in tonic; it was the 'improv night' and i enjoyed it; although it was not as intense as masada, all the different combinations of musicians were very interesting; there was a nice duet of zorn and baron, and a great duet of ribot with this japanese girl playing an instrument i didn't see before, but she told me it was called a kyoto; i do not now if i spelled it right, but does anybody know more about this instrument? i also liked to know the names of this japanese girl and of the drummer (not joey baron of cyro baptista, but the third one)... they are also playing tonight and tomorrownight; go see it! robert - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Recent Goodies Date: 02 Oct 1998 10:04:11 -0500 John Zorn Aporias Tzadik Hard for me to hear this as a major addition to Zorn's canon. The quieter parts are very enjoyable, sometimes moving, in the post-Feldman manner heard in other recent works (Redbird, etc.). The other sections sound a bit too typical of late 20th century orchestral writing: some Xenakis here, some Carter there. I don't find that it coheres very well, even by JZ's standards. My overall impression is of a collection of effects, some more interesting than others; I'd rather have heard each section gone into in more depth. The final two parts, 'Postlude' and 'Coda' I thought held special promise, very somber and mysterious. They're quiet enough, in fact, that I was sitting there enjoying the low, thrumming tones when I realized the disc had been over for a minute and the sounds I was hearing were coming from the building across the way! Ken Vandemark 5 Target or Flag Atavistic A fine follow-up to last year's 'Single Piece Flow'. KV's rollicking quintet (Mars Williams, Jeb Bishop, Kent Kessler and I forget the drummer--Mulvenna?) tear through 8 Vandemark charts, sounding a bit like 70's Braxton with the occasional rockish tinge. Vandemark has a great knack for intricate, propulsive lines that owe, I think, a bit of a debt to British prog, of all things (I could be way off, but I felt the same way about his wonderful piece on the Brotzmann Octet/Tentet release). Imagine a looser early Fripp in a free jazz context. Good stuff, fine playing all around. BTW, is Vandemark the Bizarro World's Ed Wilkerson? Martin Bartlett Burning Water Periplum Bartlett was a US Northwest-based composer (he died in 1994) who developed interactive electronic programs somewhat similar to those by Richard Teitelbaum and George Lewis. This disc features three duets with his program (Peter Hannan on soprano recorder, Lewis, and cellist Frances-Marie Uitti) and one solo piece (all done from 1979-87), all of them fascinating and intriguing. The Hannan piece and the solo title track remind me a bit of Riley circa "Shri Camel" but, IMHO, these are better and dispense with any New Age patina. The program's responsiveness to the performers is often fairly clear, but no less interesting for that, the sounds tending toward the consonant and even lush. Very enjoyable work, ranging from humorous (some Sun Ra-esque synth sounds on the title piece) to deeply thoughtful and moving (the Lewis and Uitti pieces, especially the latter). Find it and give a listen. Available from Forced Exposure, Anamolous and other on-line sources. Periplum, incidentally, is a label run by z-lister Herb Levy. I picked this up from Herb at last week's Pauline Oliveros/Ellen Fullman concert at Columbia University, which featured Fullman's Long Stringed Instrument. The LSI consists of about 150 (piano?) wires, strung through three resonators, extending to a length of nearly 100 feet. Tuning is accomplished by small C-clamps hung at appropriate intervals (it's a wonderful _looking_ machine). The perfomers (there were three here), walk inside the instrument, stroking or strumming the strings with rosined hands. The sound tends to be eerily high with overtones though, in this context, which included much electronic processing, it was often difficult to tell exactly who or what was producing a given sound. I'd be interested to hear it in a solo, unprocessed context. Oliveros' music is often a bit too newagey or quasi-ritualistic for my taste and some of that came to the fore here, the sounds themselves often being more enjoyable than the musical content. Her piece was a long, fairly static one, filled with quiet "exotic" sounds, the type of music that, to me, works better in an ambient situation than in concert format where I find myself looking for more "meat" to bite into. Stuart Dempster followed with a didjeridoo number in similar territory. Fullman's own piece got into subtly different, more rewarding areas; there was a degree of obsessive concentration about it that was refreshing. Towrds the end, when some banjo-like effects were achieved on the LSI, there was a great sense of release after intense rumination. The last work was a remix of Oliveros' and Fullman's music with live performance by DJ Spooky (on mutant electric bass and sampler) which livened things up a few notches. At one point a very loud, raucous cascade of recorded tablas burst from the speakers, no doubt causing many a mood ring to glow red. Spooky still seems to be striving for Xenak-ness; he's not there yet, but it's interesting to hear his progress. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: eugene chadbourne drum 'n' bass Date: 02 Oct 1998 07:57:59 -0400 (EDT) On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, Stefan Verstraeten wrote: > So, my question is, does someone know of an online distributor for this > album. I live in Belgium (Europe) and found out that the 'old gold' > label doesn't have a distributor here in Belgium. > Can someone help me on this please. old gold is an atlanta label. i thought that they were just a tape label, but maybe they've branched into cds and vinyl. they've worked with gold sparkle band and william carlos williams. i think that their address is in the latest tuba frenzy. i can look it up when i'm @ my apartment. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jtalbot@massart.edu Subject: zorn booking Date: 02 Oct 1998 13:59:57 +0100 does anyone have any info on zorn's booking agent? is he his own agent? i remember not too long ago someone mentioning zorn being rather pricey and hard to book. anyhow...any info would be greatly appreciated. thanks jason jtalbot@massart.edu or apoesia794@aol.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Fushitsusha on VICTO Date: 02 Oct 1998 16:57:39 EDT In a message dated 9/29/98 11:07:01 AM, keffer@shell.planetc.com wrote: <<Hello folks on the Zorn-list, Has anybody yet heard the new Fushitsusha release on Les Disques Victo (VICTO 060, 1998), "Withdrawe, this sable Disclosure ere devot'd"? I know that it is live at the Festival International de Musique Actuelle Victoriaville, Canada from May 16, 1997. Do any of you have reviews? Is it dense Fushitsusha or tinkering Fushitsusha? Thanks. David "Just bought a plane ticket from Tennessee to NYC to see Fushitsusha on Halloween" K.>> I just listened to this CD for the first time, although I did see the concert it was recorded at. I'd say it tends more towards "tinkering" Fushitsusha, although of course there are some loud passages. I liked it more than either of the two recent Tokuma records, and the sound quality is surprisingly good for a Victo release, better than any of the Victo live recordings I've heard before. Definitely recommended. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Given <dlgiven@julian.uwo.ca> Subject: Re: eugene chadbourne drum 'n' bass Date: 02 Oct 1998 17:26:00 -0400 >Date: Fri, 02 Oct 1998 11:38:50 +0100 >From: Stefan Verstraeten <stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be> >Subject: eugene chadbourne drum 'n' bass > >Dear Zornies, >Yestarday, I picked up some great albums by Eugene Chadbourne: > >- -Total Tuesday (crazy live recordings from a Switzerland/Holland tour) >- -Insect and western (leo records, fully improvised) Insect and Western isn't a wholly improvised album. On the cover it is listed as 'compositions for large ensembe', and inside he mentions how the score for one piece is about 80 pages long. It is, however, a very fun album. Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: al.t@mtnhdw.com (Al T) Subject: RE: Zorn List Digest V2 #481 - sf & crabbing & being generous Date: 03 Oct 1998 04:12:46 GMT I'm, as usual, a week out of sync. You know, the only thing that has bugged me about this list is people bitching about other peoples irritating taste in music, posting topics, and/or whatever. This inevitably then causes minature storm of recriminations that is even more irritating. Imho, if someone appears to be looking for a fight, assume they're a troll, and, if you really must respond, do it privately. I've found that quite effective, personally, in contributing to the overall signal/noise ration. (Er, not that I mean to attack noise per se. Seriously<g>.) Two things. Judging from others comments, my taste in sf is similar to the norm. (Favorite is Delaney; if you liked Dhalgren and Stars, check out Triton and the Towers trilogy.) So, given a likely match, an author who seems to be up to something very interesting (and sort of coldly creepy in a way which hasn't really come into focus for me) is Patricia Anthony. She's got no avant garde elements in her style at all but I think she's very worth watching. Second, a CD that enters my play cycle often is the eponymous Let's Be Generous. Is there more by these guys? Comments? Thanks to everyone for helping fuel my Fall CD splurge...some David Ware, Mr Bungle, Parker/Guy/Lytton...and, of course, the Temptations 5-CD box set. Bye for now. "God is simultaneous mutual implication of everything" Nicholas of Cusanus - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Wilfredo Casas" <rubberplant@hotmail.com> Subject: Need help Date: 02 Oct 1998 17:52:33 PDT Can anyone recommend classic recordings (in print) by: Derek Bailey? Euguene Chadbourne? Henry Kaiser? Elliot Sharp? Thing is I'm doing a special radio show on guitarists unheard of here in MTY, and I do not know where to start from. BTW, is "The Sign of 4" any good? Thanks, Wil ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Howes <mhowes@best.com> Subject: Re: Need help Date: 02 Oct 1998 18:19:35 -0700 >Euguene Chadbourne? Chadbourne has many good releases. Some of my favorites include... anything he's put out on Intakt. "Strings", "Songs", and "End to Slavery" the disc on Victo with Paul Lovens called Patrizio for a more folk music approach, I love "I've Been Everywhere" Country Protest and Corpses of a Foreign War are more country and Country Music in the World of Islam volume XV is cool...and has appearances by Elliot Sharp and The Sun City Girls. I could go on and on about guitarists (anybody else like the series on SubRosa of guitarist split CDs?) but I just thought i'd mention one more interesting Chadbourne related release. The Book of Heads which is the Zorn piece dedicated to Chadbourne. I was amazed at Ribot's playing and how the combination of the composition and Ribot sounded just like Chadbourne. mike mhowes@best.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: Need help Date: 02 Oct 1998 21:06:04 -0400 Wilfredo Casas wrote: > > Can anyone recommend classic recordings (in print) by: > Derek Bailey? Of his solo stuff, which there is A LOT of, I think 'Aida' is the one to get (originally on Incus, reissued by Dexter's Cigar). There are plenty more recommended solo records too... Of his duo stuff, the 2-CD 'Soho Suites' with Tony Oxley on Incus is absolutely incredible! Also the Organ of Corti disc with Han Bennink 'Live At Verity's Place' and the FMP duo with Cecil Taylor 'Pleistozaen Mit Wasser' are excellent. Check out http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/mbailey.html > Elliot Sharp? I've found Elliott Sharp to be pretty hit-or-miss with me and since his output is so varied, it really depends what you're looking for. My own personal favorite of his guitar-oriented stuff is 'Sferics' on Atonal which is solo fretless guitar. Most of his other stuff I've really enjoyed doesn't have a lot of guitar: Larynx, Rheo~Umbra, Spring & Neap. You may want to check out Carbon too. They can vary but I think 'Interference' is a very good record. Check out http://www.algonet.se/~repple/esharp/es.html -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: HELP with ORANGE JEWS Date: 02 Oct 1998 11:48:52 -0700 Does anybody know what happened with the following compilation? *** - ORANGE JEWS - IT AIN'T JUST FOR BREAKFAST ANYMORE: various artists This record features Andy Statman, David Krakauer, Wally Brill, Andy Haas, Uri Caine, Anthony Coleman, Gary Lucas, etc. 1998 - Knitting Factory Records (USA), KFR-222 (CD) Note: not released yet (planned for April 1998). Also, does anybody know the Premonition label on which MODERN COOL was released (see recent thread on this record)? Any pointers? Thanks, Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Lankin <lankina@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Wayne Horvitz & Zony Mash in Philly Date: 02 Oct 1998 22:21:48 -0400 Just saw a listing for Zony Mash in Philly this coming Monday (10/5) at the Five Spot, in case anyone's interested... -- Alan Lankin lankina@worldnet.att.net http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Need help Date: 02 Oct 1998 22:14:58 EDT In a message dated 10/2/98 8:54:42 PM, rubberplant@hotmail.com wrote: <<Can anyone recommend classic recordings (in print) by: Derek Bailey?>> My favorites are Aida and Incus Taps for solo, Dart Drug, Playing, Music and Dance, and Village Life for duets, and Yankees for trio. I listened to _The Sign of 4_ once and didn't think it was very interesting. <<Euguene Chadbourne?>> I find Chadbourne's stuff very hit-and-miss. The two CDs that I think are great are the recently released Solo Acoustic Guitar, Volume 2 on Rastascan and Patrizio, which is duets with Paul Lovens. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Re: Need help Date: 03 Oct 1998 00:11:51 -0400 At 05:52 PM 10/2/98 PDT, Wilfredo Casas wrote: >Can anyone recommend classic recordings (in print) by: >Derek Bailey? Since no one has piped up with Guitar, Drum & Bass... Maybe not classic in all senses, but still excellent. Harras, with Zorn and Parker, is also good, and perhaps more representative. >Henry Kaiser? His best guitar work, IMHO, was the free improv stuff he did way back when on labels like Metalanguage, etc. He has put together an overview of this period on a single Cuneiform CD, and although I haven't heard it, this is his most interesting period, before he became a more straightforward 'rock' guitarist in various bands. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers -- Pablo Picasso - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sulacco@aol.com Subject: Re: Need Help Date: 03 Oct 1998 01:41:50 EDT i like the disc called Wireforks that is duets between henry kaiser and derek bailey. that should wow 'em on the FM circuit - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Michael A. Piper" <mpiper@indiana.edu> Subject: Re: Need help Date: 03 Oct 1998 13:04:23 -0600 >At 05:52 PM 10/2/98 PDT, Wilfredo Casas wrote: >>Can anyone recommend classic recordings (in print) by: >>Derek Bailey? >>Henry Kaiser? How about Henry Kaiser's Derek Bailey recommendations...I've got a whole page of HK's suggestions for Bailey listening at http://php.indiana.edu/~mpiper/HK%20Suggests%20Bailey.html As for rec's for HK, it depends on what sort of sound you're looking for. For free-improv, I'd suggest OUTSIDE ALOHA PLEASURE (a CD issue of material from his earlier albums ALOHA and OUTSIDE PLEASURE, on Dexter's Cigar) LEMONFISH TWEEZER (a "best of" compilation of his solo material, on Cuneiform) WIREFORKS (HK and Bailey together...a great album, on Shanachie) You can check out HK's discography at: http://php.indiana.edu/~mpiper/HK%20Disco.html Best, MAP Indiana University School of Library and Information Science "Tu id inveni tibi... quid videor -- bibliothecarius?" The Official Henry Kaiser Website http://php.indiana.edu/~mpiper/HKMain.html "The best in comtemporary improvisation..." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: David S. Ware in St. Louis (review) Date: 02 Oct 1998 15:09:57 -0500 I saw the quartet last night in St. Louis and I don't think I liked it all that much. I enjoy freer types of music but this brand of free jazz is not for me. This is the type of music that, to me, is free from almost anything. Most of the time the music didn't make sense to me. The first tune was the basic jazz structure (head->solos->head) but the transitions from the head to the solos (read: noise) were abrupt and lacked coherence. It made it seem like gratuitous noise. What's the point of having a composed head if the solo parts have nothing to do with it? David's solo made no reference to the head. Matthew Shipp's solo actually did take the head into account and it seemed like he played somewhat of a variation on it at one point but none of the other band members picked up on it and he eventually left it for other ideas. Parker's bass solo was long and droning and ended abruptly when he began playing the tune's bassline which led into the head again. The drummer, Suzie Iberra was impressive and throughout the night she brought out all kinds of toys to play with. My problem with her was that she didn't appear to be listening to anyone else in the band. She certainly had interesting ideas going on but she didn't apply them in any meaningful way, in my opinion. Shipp impressed me the most out of all of them. I might even be tempted to listen to some of his albums (any recommendations?). William Parker didn't do much for me. In fact, I sometimes can't justify a place for basses in music like this. When all four of them were wailing and pounding in cacophonous improvisation the bass was barely audible. I may even venture to say that if the bass was removed from the fray there may be no significant difference in the music as a whole. Now, there were the heads of some tunes where the bass was necessary, however, and the band over the course of the whole night would have been very different with out it. Ware's unaccompanied solo spots were enjoyable as he would play with ideas and extend them. It's just the blatant honking and pounding that I can't find interest in. A highlight of the performance was a standard (I can't remember which). A part of it was played by the trio sans Ware and that was something. Shipp and the other two would phase in and out of playing the tune in a borderline cheesy way and pounding and such. I enjoyed that. Of course, this is all subjective and I prefer other types of music to this. I couldn't help but think about Bloodcount, which has it's fair share of honking and wailing. The only difference is that they seem to play as a group whereas the Ware quartet was four people playing at the same time on the same stage. Braxton's quartets (We listened to Dortmund when we got home) have the same kind of group attitude as Bloodcount. Just my take, Dan Hewins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "allen j huotari" <zmasada@email.msn.com> Subject: cd sale/PKD/Messiaen/chitchat Date: 03 Oct 1998 15:10:26 +0100 greetings fellow Zornophiliacs (and evidently closet Dickheads as well...more on this later) taking advantage of the lull to delurk momentarily, apologies in advance for the longish post 1) help me reduce my collection and ease my filing/categorization woes :-) all individual discs are $8 each or $7 each if you take 3 or more these prices include postage within the USofA trade offers are encouraged (but be forewarned, I have a very small wants list right now) please contact me privately John Zorn LOCUS SOLUS (Eva WWCX 2035) John Zorn ANGELUS NOVUS (Tzadik TZ 7028) Naked City ABSINTHE (Avant 004) Prima Materia PEACE ON EARTH-MUSIC OF JOHN COLTRANE (Knitting Factory KFW 158) (w/ Zorn, Wm Parker, R Ali, a.o.) Bob Ostertag ATTENTION SPAN (Rift CD 14) (w/ Zorn and Frith sampled, mangled, mutated, etc.) Briggan Krauss GOOD KITTY (Knitting Factory KFW 178) (w/ C Speed, M Sarin) Butch Morris HOMEING (Sound Aspects SAS CD 4015) (w/ S Hirsch, D Weinstein, JA Deane, a.o.) Henry Threadgill SONG OUT OF MY TREES (Black Saint 120154-2) (w/ B Ross, M Melford, a.o.) Joan LaBarbara SINGING THROUGH-VOCAL COMPOSITIONS BY JOHN CAGE (New Albion 035 CD) (w/ W Winant, a.o.) Gate LIVE IN BOSTON/NYC (Poon Village) (M Morley, L Ranaldo, Z Parkins) 2) I'm surprised that no one mentioned the wondrous Philip K Dick novelette "Faith Of Our Fathers" from Harlan Ellison's groundbreaking DANGEROUS VISIONS anthology this was a mind transforming (or should that be "ass transforming"?) experience when I first read it nearly 30 years ago anyone interested in the elusive qualities of memory, reality, identity, or humanity owes it to themselves to read some PKD (and double apologies if I inadvertently resurrect the PKD thread) 3) I believe it was Patrice Roussel who mentioned that the Olivier Messiaen compositions ET EXSPECTO RESURRECTIONEM MORTUORUM and COULEURS DE LA CITE CELESTE can be found on a single cd and conducted by Pierre Boulez this is correct, and for those who are interested, the cat no. is Erato 4509-91706-2 (this also was an ass-transforming experience when I first heard them over 20 years ago on the original lp release. Anyone out there remember the radio show "Imaginary Landscape" that composer Carl Stone hosted on Saturday night on KPFK-FM in SoCal in the mid to late '70's?) 4) yeah...sometimes this list is too chit-chatty...but otoh it's rarely boring and personally I'd much rather read about some of the off topic stuff here than read the on-topic stuff in other lists (just what is the best King Crimson lp of all time? do Pete Sinfield's lyrics suck? is Robert Fripp in need of a personality bypass? ehhh...*shudder*) count yourselves luck z-listmates...it could be worse back to lurking, thanks for your time and bandwidth ajh now playing: Resonant Swamp Theory MEETINGS WITH REMARKABLE MEN (Random Atmosphere 001) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "allen j huotari" <zmasada@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: cd sale/PKD/Messiaen/chitchat Date: 03 Oct 1998 19:41:12 +0100 thanks to those of you who responded so quickly as of now only the Briggan Krauss GOOD KITTY cd remains ajh - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Poisonhead@aol.com Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #488 Date: 03 Oct 1998 22:47:55 EDT How about those great Jewish music series? Serge G. is great!!! On an off note just caught the Ken Vandermark 5. After seeing them play I bought all 4 cd's they had that were related. And they all kick ass!!! Target or flag, single piece flow, live at the empty bottle, and barrage double trio. Anyone interested in CDR trades? I have everything Zorn has done on cd or close. But I only have the live Masada disc, naked city live video(from radio) and the promo Zorn radio show. Looking for some sugar out there. As well I am a huge LL Lurie,Chapin, Buckethead fan. Email privately to poisonhead@aol.com. Andrew - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nils <jacobson@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu> Subject: Re: Need help with guitar recs Date: 04 Oct 1998 02:26:25 -0500 > Can anyone recommend classic recordings (in print) by: > Derek Bailey? A big second on Wireforks (Shanachie). Some fine playing, and unlike his solo work (obviously), good group interaction. > BTW, is "The Sign of 4" any good? Depends on what you like. I thought it was great. It's Bailey's record. Metheny makes the stretch to the out playing, and it comes out interesting, sort of like Pat trying to play like Derek. You're never going to see that on record again for a while. There are 3 discs, with studio and live work, electric and acoustic, lots of weird guitar instruments played by Metheny. The second disc (if I remember the order properly) contains a huge wallop of electric energy, it's pretty hard to listen all the way through. (I made it once.) The production is a little spotty in places--problems with sound levels; players drown each other out a lot (Bailey gets lost in the mix). So it's hardly crystal clear. But that's not real high on my list of important things about records. For other interesting guitarists, you should check out Tronzo (who has done things with Spanish Fly and in his own groups, a breezy funky slide guitar style); and also there's a record out last year by Rod Poole called The Death Adder, an amazing mysterious hunk of microtonality (which I quite frankly don't really get). nils - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Need help with guitar recs Date: 04 Oct 1998 02:36:54 EDT In a message dated 10/4/98 2:29:10 AM, jacobson@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu wrote: <<and also there's a record out last year by Rod Poole called The Death Adder, an amazing mysterious hunk of microtonality (which I quite frankly don't really get).>> Poole has a second CD just out on the same label, WIN Records, called December 96. It's in much the same vein as The Death Adder. More info at www.winrecords.com. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sulacco@aol.com Subject: Re: Need help with guitar recs Date: 04 Oct 1998 02:58:07 EDT if u r into layered noise, i recommend zero tolerance for silence by pat metheny. i have heard lots of stories about how this came to be recorded, but i don't know for sure what is true or apocrypha. i do know i like what it sounds like and it is on geffen. noise rock on a major label. kick ass - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Orange Jews, David S Ware Date: 04 Oct 1998 04:10:49 -0400 (EDT) :ORANGE JEWS - IT AIN'T JUST FOR BREAKFAST ANYMORE: various artists > > This record features Andy Statman, David Krakauer, Wally Brill, Andy Haas, > Uri Caine, Anthony Coleman, Gary Lucas, etc. > > 1998 - Knitting Factory Records (USA), KFR-222 (CD) > > Note: not released yet (planned for April 1998). They released it under the name _Jewish Alternative Movement: A Guide for the Perplexed_, I think, and it came out maybe in June. I guessed they realized what a bad title that was. I think the Hasidic New Wave CD that came out at the same time also had its name changed from something like About David S. Ware (from Dan Hewins' review) >.... A highlight of the performance was a standard (I can't remember which). A > part of it was played by the trio sans Ware and that was something. Shipp > and the other two would phase in and out of playing the tune in a > borderline cheesy way and pounding and such. I enjoyed that. I'll bet this was "The Way We Were" which is on the new CD. I liked this effect too, the first few times, but Shipp has done it with "Autumn Leaves", "Take the A Train", "Solitude" and maybe others. I like all of these but its starting to maybe seem a little schtick-y in a weird way. > I couldn't help but think about Bloodcount, which has it's fair > share of honking and wailing. The only difference is that they seem to > play as a group whereas the Ware quartet was four people playing at the > same time on the same stage. Braxton's quartets (We listened to Dortmund > when we got home) have the same kind of group attitude as Bloodcount. I agree completely. I mean I like Pharaoh Sanders, Cecil Taylor, Peter Brotzmann, _Spy vs Spy_, and lots of other things most people run from, but I just don't get David S. Ware. I like Shipp's better, but can't help feeling like he's a little overrated (and that Ware is WAY overrated). And I love Bloodcount too. But, I realize other people like Ware, its just my opinion, but I won't be spending any more money on his stuff. William Parker's quartet and big band have done some sstuff that I liked a lot more, FWIW. The Gold Sparkle Band from Atlanta put out a 7" of 2 songs by Shipp and that was very good, I thought. (T > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Artur Nowak" <arno@silesia.top.pl> Subject: Bill FRISELL discography - update Date: 04 Oct 1998 22:28:42 +0200 Hi! I'm very glad to announce the update of Bill FRISELL discography. It is available at http://www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/default.htm. I'm looking forward to your comments. Big thanks to all contributors! :-) Take care! Artur - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Benito Vergara" <sunny70@sirius.com> Subject: RE: masada question Date: 04 Oct 1998 14:18:57 -0700 Thanks to those who answered my "West Coast Masada" question. Additionally, in the SF Examiner today they confirmed the lineup for the Masada concert in SF on November 8: Zorn, Baron, Cohen and Douglas. Needless to say, yeeha! Also, the John Schott Group (previously billed as John Schott's In These Times) is apparently not playing from "In These Times;" he "debuts a new quintet and presents the World Premiere of his latest major competition" (according to the SF Jazz Fest ad). Also, I have a CD of Zorn's "Aporias" for trade. E-mail me if interested (in the US only, please). Thanks, Ben np: john zorn, "two-lane highway" http://www.bigfoot.com/~bvergara/ ICQ# 12832406 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vlad-Drac@webtv.net (Theo Klaase) Subject: Micro-Zorn-soft Date: 04 Oct 1998 17:41:40 -0500 (CDT) I just witmessed a comercial from Microsoft; the back-ground music was "the Heist" featuring Marc Ribot off Zorn's Filmworks 1 album. Look for it! -Theodorus - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com> Subject: Previte at the KF Date: 04 Oct 1998 21:24:01 -0400 I understand that the Bobby Previte 20th Anniversary shows were broadcast over the KF site. Anyone tape this? Answer privately, please. Alan E Kayser - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "hijk" <hijk@gateway.net> Subject: RE: Need Help Date: 04 Oct 1998 20:44:59 -0400 For more great solo electric guitar stylings check out Marc Ducret's Un Certain Malaise on Tim Berne's Screwgun label. Jeff Kent hijk@gateway.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Previte at the KF Date: 04 Oct 1998 23:00:33 -0400 Alan E Kayser wrote: > > I understand that the Bobby Previte 20th Anniversary shows were > broadcast over the KF site. Anyone tape this? Answer privately, > please. Is the KF webcasting again? I had thought that they had stopped doing it since Zorn had his (appropriate) shitfit at them. -- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: naked lunch Date: 05 Oct 1998 13:08:07 +1000 Maybe someone can explain this to me... I saw the Naked Lunch soundtrack on a cd catalog and did some followup searching. I came across the soundtrack which featured Ornette Coleman which was the cd on sale on the catalog. But there was also a spoken word thing by William Burroughs. It wasn't available, but does this spoken word thing also feature Frisell, Horvitz and Kang? And does it have a relationship to the soundtrack cd? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org> Subject: Re: naked lunch Date: 04 Oct 1998 23:28:12 -0400 The soundtrack is for the movie, and has nothing to do with the reading by Burroughs. The reading is a 3 CD set featuring uncle Bill reading various sections from Naked Lunch and Frisell, Horvitz and Kang adding incidental music. At 1:08 PM +1000 10/5/98, Julian wrote: >Maybe someone can explain this to me... > >I saw the Naked Lunch soundtrack on a cd catalog and did some followup >searching. I came across the soundtrack which featured Ornette Coleman >which was the cd on sale on the catalog. But there was also a spoken word >thing by William Burroughs. It wasn't available, but does this spoken word >thing also feature Frisell, Horvitz and Kang? And does it have a >relationship to the soundtrack cd? | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | | | | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | | | | UMD school of music | | | | m-e-t-a-t-r-o-n p-r-e-s-s | | | http://www.artswire.org/comma | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: Previte at the KF Date: 05 Oct 1998 00:57:46 EDT In a message dated 10/4/98 11:05:11 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jzitt@humansystems.com writes: > > Is the KF webcasting again? I had thought that they had stopped doing it > since Zorn had his (appropriate) shitfit at them. I think they still webcast, unless the artist wishes otherwise. Wether or not it's worth recording is another thing. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jnschust@sas.upenn.edu (Joshua N Schuster) Subject: Zorn, Microsoft, ads Date: 05 Oct 1998 01:10:11 -0400 (EDT) I only get the digest, so this debate may already be raging, so apologies if I repeat. On TV, I saw a Microsoft ad that used a Zorn song. I don't really care about that fact, but there are some questions it allows me to ask. The song, I believe, is on Filmworks I, track 3, "The Heist", basically Robert Quine jamming to a rhythm I enjoy. A Weiden and Kennedy ad-- I don't know. The ad campaign for Microsoft seems to be failing. If they want to humanize their product, showing boring people with impersonal camera angles in cold rooms--anyways, Microsoft always knew the consumer is irrelevant in hi-tech; as long as you can destroy competitors, you leave the customer with no choice. Sorry, my questions: the song is almost all Quine. So now that money is involved--I'm simply curious--who gets it? Did Zorn really compose the piece, or merely direct it, set its mood and orchestration (he'd have to be a whiz on the guitar to figure out that rhythm)? Is the song Quine's, Zorn's, the filmmaker's, the record label's (I guess Zorn has the label rights if he bought it back from Elektra to reissue it)? This questions could extend to numerous pieces on Zorn albums. Zorn may set the song's mood, pace and concept, but in many cases the music played clearly is a result of the skilled musician with a clear stylistic signature. So the piece may be collaborative, but suddenly someone's getting paid. (Hm..., what about the moral implications of selling music to Microsoft, of all monopolies?) When I think of it, there are many Zorn songs that would make great ad music. Something about Marc Ribot's playing also makes me think it would be catchy with the consumer (not a negative comment, I think his playing is great). Zorn and the scene are great at those short, 20-1:20 sec. catchy bursts of music. It may be an influence of film with its short-lived spots of music for transition and melodrama. But surely it's also a factor of the music market. With so many albums and musicians, the market is patient only for short songs which are easy to grasp both for musicians and listeners. In the absence of time to develop the music for busy musicians and impatient, distracted listeners, one takes advantage of the short tune, easily identified and understood by both. Plus it's catchy and we recognize the attitude and theme immediately--hence great music for TV ads. There is a lot of marketing and economics going on here, and it's not just the packaging. I think Zorn's theorized his game pieces in political and, ultimately, economic terms, if only in terms of production and consumption: a game piece is easily portable, adapts to number of participants (producers and consumers), not too much practice time required. Take filmwworks "Tears of Ecstasy"--recorded in one day, with each song lasting about one minute I think it says (these are arbitrary, numerical constraints, not like Masada, set up as a cultural, historical decision). In part, the one day session works because a mood can probably hold for a day's duration, so the formal time constraints may help produce and reinforce the mood of the music. But also the musicians are busy--one day in the study not a big deal. The songs are all brief. Great music, yes, with the help of putting economical constraint's to the music's favor. It's probably not long before one of the tracks is picked up by ad agencies. That late track, the western-like one with the hootin' n' hollerin' "he-yah"--would be great for the Marlboro man, or Microsoft, roping in more competitors like cattle. -Josh Schuster - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be> Subject: Re: Actual Post Regarding Zorn Date: 05 Oct 1998 11:55:15 +0200 > This is old info (Douglas mentioned it to me in 1995!), but there was a > project to release the following two sets on Tzadik: > *** - LIVE IN JERUSALEM: Masada > ???? - Tzadik (USA), ??? (CD) > > Note: not released yet. > *** - LIVE AT MOGADOR: Masada > > ???? - Tzadik (USA), ??? (CD) > > Note: not released yet. A bit late, but nevertheless: The Belgium radio taped the concert of Masada at the Luchtbal, Antwerp (spring 1996) and announced that the recording would be part of a 5 CD-set. This Box would also contain this Jerusalem-concert as well as 3 other gigs. I believe this same mastodont has currently expanded to a 10 (or 12 ?) live-box of Masada recordings! YVes - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cappyd <cappyd@uvic.ca> Subject: Re: Zorn, Microsoft, ads Date: 05 Oct 1998 03:08:24 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------8D1BE215135F6D984DB1B26A Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Sorry, my questions: the song is almost all Quine. So now that money is > involved--I'm simply curious--who gets it? Did Zorn really compose the > piece, or merely direct it, set its mood and orchestration (he'd have to > be a whiz on the guitar to figure out that rhythm)? Is the song Quine's, > Zorn's, the filmmaker's, the record label's (I guess Zorn has the label > rights if he bought it back from Elektra to reissue it)? This questions > could extend to numerous pieces on Zorn albums. Zorn may set the song's > mood, pace and concept, but in many cases the music played clearly is a > result of the skilled musician with a clear stylistic signature. So the > piece may be collaborative, but suddenly someone's getting paid. (Hm..., > what about the moral implications of selling music to Microsoft, of all > monopolies?) Assuming Zorn did aquire all rights to the recording, and that Zorn is named as the composer, he would get everything. There are 2 rights involved here: (i) copyright in the sound recording, and (ii) copyright in the composition. If the piece was too "improvised" for Zorn to have any copyright, neither would the performer. A "performer's right" in their performance has recently been enacted in some jurisdictions, but this only applies if the performer is recorded without their consent (i.e. bootlegs - although the US now has dedicated legislation for these). In reality, where an all original recording is made, contracts are usually signed which assign all rights in the recording (either to the producer or the label) just so there's no arguing later, and arrange for royalties for the composition (e.g. 50/50 between composer and publisher). Also, where a work is commissioned (eg Zorn pays performer to compose the work) it becomes a "work for hire" and - you guessed it - Zorn is deemed owner of copyright. No copyright in style either. I can't wait to see the commercial. As far as doubting Zorn's ability to compose in detail for guitar, check out "The Book of Heads" (or "Carny" in respect of piano). Disclaimer: this was not legal advice! Only my opinion! -cd --------------8D1BE215135F6D984DB1B26A Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Cappone D'Angelo Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Cappone D'Angelo n: D'Angelo;Cappone org: Faculty of Law adr: ;;;Victoria BC;;;Canada email;internet: cappyd@uvic.ca title: University of Victoria tel;work: (604) 904-5800 note: Law Student / Sonic Editor / Audiophile x-mozilla-cpt: ;2 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------8D1BE215135F6D984DB1B26A Content-Type: text/x-vcard; charset=us-ascii; name="vcard.vcf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Description: Card for Cappone D'Angelo Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="vcard.vcf" begin: vcard fn: Cappone D'Angelo n: D'Angelo;Cappone org: Faculty of Law adr: ;;;Victoria BC;;;Canada email;internet: cappyd@uvic.ca title: University of Victoria tel;work: (604) 904-5800 note: Law Student / Sonic Editor / Audiophile x-mozilla-cpt: ;2 x-mozilla-html: FALSE version: 2.1 end: vcard --------------8D1BE215135F6D984DB1B26A-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: David S. Ware in St. Louis (review) Date: 05 Oct 1998 09:41:08 -0400 (EDT) On Fri, 2 Oct 1998, Dan Hewins wrote: > What's the point of having a composed head if the solo parts have > nothing to do with it? what??? ever heard of ornette coleman? b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: RE: Need Help Date: 05 Oct 1998 10:39:51 -0500 Seconded. This record is amazing. Dan Hewins At 8:44 PM -0400 10/4/98, hijk wrote: >For more great solo electric guitar stylings check out Marc Ducret's Un >Certain Malaise on Tim Berne's Screwgun label. > >Jeff Kent >hijk@gateway.net > > >- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: ducret Date: 05 Oct 1998 12:22:47 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Dan Hewins wrote: > Seconded. This record is amazing. > > At 8:44 PM -0400 10/4/98, hijk wrote: > >For more great solo electric guitar stylings check out Marc Ducret's Un > >Certain Malaise on Tim Berne's Screwgun label. i picked this up from tim berne when he came through dc. i was always a big fan of ducret's playing on berne's records and this solo album does not disappoint. it starts out with some real angular, expressionistic distorted playing which wouldn't sound out of place in storm & stress. and then the rest of the album ducret largely plays it clean, spanning from abstract to nods to more conventional jazz guitar. i think i mentioned before that the robots-spanking-ass motif from the packaging is beyond brilliant. needless to say, i'm a fan. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "hijk" <hijk@gateway.net> Subject: RE: Ducret Date: 05 Oct 1998 12:43:01 -0400 While you are all at Dowtown Music Gallery picking up Zorn CD's on Wednesday 10/7 at 7:30 (see, Zorn related...) be sure to check out Marc Ducret's solo performance. This is a rare one. Jeff Kent hijk@gateway.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Orange Jews, David S Ware Date: 05 Oct 1998 09:48:55 -0700 On Sun, 4 Oct 1998 04:10:49 -0400 (EDT) William York wrote: > > :ORANGE JEWS - IT AIN'T JUST FOR BREAKFAST ANYMORE: various artists > > > > 1998 - Knitting Factory Records (USA), KFR-222 (CD) > > They released it under the name _Jewish Alternative Movement: A Guide for > the Perplexed_, I think, and it came out maybe in June. I guessed they > realized what a bad title that was. I think the Hasidic New Wave CD that > came out at the same time also had its name changed from something like Makes sense, although the catalog number of A GUIDE FOR THE PERPLEXED is different (KFR-216). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Orange Jews, David S Ware Date: 05 Oct 1998 11:57:44 -0500 (CDT) On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > On Sun, 4 Oct 1998 04:10:49 -0400 (EDT) William York wrote: > > > > :ORANGE JEWS - IT AIN'T JUST FOR BREAKFAST ANYMORE: various artists > > > > > > 1998 - Knitting Factory Records (USA), KFR-222 (CD) > Makes sense, although the catalog number of A GUIDE FOR THE PERPLEXED is > different (KFR-216). They may have pushed up the release to coincide with the KF Lincoln Center Seder, since a lot of the material from the album was performed at that event. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Bar Kokhba at Tonic Date: 05 Oct 1998 14:14:40 -0500 Caught the sextet incarnation of JZ's band Friday night at Tonic (Feldman, Friedlander, Cohen, Robot, Baron and Baptista). A very impressive, beautiful show. All of the pieces (I'm pretty sure) were from the 'Circle Maker' disc, occasionally slowed down or sped up a bit, but Zorn allowed more expansive improv on several of them. A few things stood out: 1) Zorn's conducting, from a chair facing the band, was enjoyable and intriguing to watch. A nice balancing act between allowing his musicians to take off on odd tangents and reining them in when he needed the composition to assert itself. 2) The joyful and humorous interplay between several of the performers: Feldman/Friedlander and Baron/Baptista especially. A pleasure to watch artists who are having such an obviously good time and, by inference, music that allows them this latitude and provides great fodder. 3) Most of all, the intense and unabasedly emotional soloing by all members, in particular Feldman and Ribot (the latter still possessing the most gorgeous guitar tone on the planet). One of my favorite attributes of this band (and Masada) is the near complete defenestration (look it up) of any remnants of post-modernism, in favor of deep thought, feeling and, simply, beautiful music. I can do without ironic allusions and knowing smirks for a while. A word to the wise: Tonic has begun a policy of selling advance tickets for certain performances; these shows, for example. This policy will be in effect for the Haino Keiji shows at the end of the month. I was told they'd begin selling tickets for these events at the end of this week. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: SYMPHONY No. 1 (TONAL PLEXUS) by Glenn Branca Date: 05 Oct 1998 13:23:08 -0700 Does anybody know the story behind the Roir reissue of this symphony? I mean, Atavistic reissued it in 1992 (when the label was called Atavistic video). Was it out of print? Could they have lost the rights to keep it in print? Just curious. Thanks, Patrice (who forgot when Roir -- the cassette only label -- realized that CDs were not evil). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: SYMPHONY No. 1 (TONAL PLEXUS) by Glenn Branca Date: 05 Oct 1998 16:32:44 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 5 Oct 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > Patrice (who forgot when Roir -- the cassette only label -- realized > that CDs were not evil). the deal with roir was that they worked with artists on who were in the midst of label commitments. those bands were able to release stuff with roir as long as it was cassette-only and subsequently roir did really well in the days before record companies realized the potential popularity of cassettes. the bad brains best record was released on roir. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vlad-Drac@webtv.net (Theo Klaase) Subject: Zorn Interview Date: 05 Oct 1998 15:38:07 -0500 (CDT) I've got a book from my college library with a John Zorn interview. The book is called Talking Music by Duckworth. Here's an excerpt: DUCKWORTH: Why did you decide to play saxophone instead of some other instrument? ZORN: I wonder if I picked the Braxton record up first and then the sax, or whether it was the other way around. I can't really remember the chronology. But I do remember that the 1st jazz records I listened to were the Jazz Composers' Orchestra, the two record set with Cecil Taylor and Pharoah Sanders, Ascension, and Free Jazz. Those were the records that a friend of mine, lke an elder, turned me on to in college and said "check this out." And I was impressed with, say, Cecil Taylor's Unit Structures. It had a real structure to it; it wasn't just a blowing session. I enjoyed the blowing session quality of Ascension, but at the same time, I realy got into Taylor's work with structure. DUCKWORTH Were you a natural saxophone playe? Did it come easily? ZORN Yes, I picked the thing up and it was there from the 1st minute I started playing. Maybe that's why I stuck with it. I remember my composition teacher saying, "You know, you're never going to be a great saxophone player, you're starting so late." And I said, "Well, I don't care if I practice ten hours a day for the rest of my life. I love doing it and I'm going to do it. I don't care what you think." He was trying to tell me, "Don't bother with the saxophone, study the piano." And when I was a teenager and got into the organ, I wanted to study organ but my parents said, "No, no. You can't play the organ; play the piano." DUCKWORTH Let's talk about how SPILLANE was written. ZORN Okay. First I'd just write images and ideas: "I heard the scream through the mist of the night." I took the first phrase from my favorite books by him, because he's got great first lines. Or images: "Girl #1: Velda," you know, a portrait of who Velda is. Or Kiss Me Deadly; I have synopses of the six major books. "Knife fight": I just picked different things that I thought related to Spillane. And then I kind of orchestrated like this: "Harlem nightclub; blues guitar and backup; Arto vocal; question mark; marration; shoot out." That's all it would say. Later, I'd pick the musicians involved. So it would start out with images, then I'd begin to get a little more specific in terms of orchestration, then I'd order the thing. DUCKWORTH Did it turn to a point into notes on a page? ZORN Not always. I write everyday. I just write things down that I like. Then I may go through my notes, just independent events, and try to find something that sounds like it fits with something else. So I'd go into the studio equipped with these file cards that have been numbered, and we'd start recording the piece from the beginning. We started with the scream. I have everybody there all the time, so ti's kind of like an artist's palette. All eight musicians were there ten hours a day, every day, in the studio. It took about seven or eight days. (Zorn mentions at one point that he didn't begin playing saxophone till age 20!!!) The interview goes on and on. the ISBN # for the book is 0-02-870823-7 -Theodorus - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Need help Date: 05 Oct 1998 13:43:12 -0700 On Fri, 02 Oct 1998 17:52:33 PDT "Wilfredo Casas" wrote: > > Can anyone recommend classic recordings (in print) by: > Derek Bailey? > Euguene Chadbourne? > Henry Kaiser? > Elliot Sharp? To grasp Elliott's music, you have to try either a Carbon record or one with his string compositions. My favorite Carbon are DATACIDE and TOCSIN (both on Enemy). Because they might not be easy to find, you can try INTERFERENCE (on Atavistic) which is also very good. For his string music, I love CRYPTID FRAGMENTS (on Extreme), and XENOCODEX (on Tzadik). Talking about E# and guitar, he has an upcoming record (called GTR OBLQ) with... Vernon Reid and David Torn!!! Don't know the label (Intuition?). Looks like an interesting combination. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Kowalski <BKowalski@genetics.com> Subject: Aporias & The Bribe Date: 05 Oct 1998 18:13:51 -0400 Two new releases out of the bag recently - anyone w/ thoughts on the above two discs? Thought I'd ask the experts ;^ ) to back up or rip apart the promising blurbs on the sleeve notes... Happy listening, as always. Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ScottRussell <ScottRussell@scottishmedia.com> Subject: RE: Aporias & The Bribe Date: 05 Oct 1998 23:36:18 +0100 > Two new releases out of the bag recently - anyone w/ thoughts on the > above two discs? > Bob Both these discs are great. The Bribe is especially good, it reminds me why I got into Zorn in the first place. If you already like Spillane, The Bribe is basically a jumbo version of same. The main difference is that the themes are allowed to develop fully where they just flash past on Spillane. The music is as varied as you could wish with some outstanding moments, my favourite being track 4 'Meters' (possibly after the funk band?) which is a smokin' funk workout with some scorching Bob Quine guiter. There are also some extended Christian Marclay workouts. The whole thing is just a joy. Aporias is a different beast. I've only listened to it a couple of times so these thoughts are relatively unfocused. Quite low key and with hints and references to a multitude of styles. It's a modern classical chamber piece. I can hear bits of Ellington in the Piano playing and European composers such as Stravinsky and Bartok in the strings but it really is much more than that. If you're going for in-yer-face cut'n'thrust Zorn then get The Bribe, if you fancy something more sombre and less flashy then get Aporias. Or you can do what I imagine most people on this list will do and get 'em both. Happy purchasing Scott Russell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: MeandMrRay@aol.com Subject: Cd's for sale! Date: 05 Oct 1998 19:12:08 EDT Hello All, A friend recommended this list as a place where people may appreciate the CD's I am selling. I'm selling the CD's for 10 dollars a piece. I will entertain lesser per-peice offers from people interested in buying several CDs. This sale is going torwards the funding of my move. I will be paying the shipping on the CD's, so the price is a flat 10 per. All CD's are in near mint -- mint conditions, and full guaranteed. I hope this list interests some people. Hope everyone is well, Greg. the list: Abdullah, Ahmed (and The Solomonic Quintet) Silkheart w/ D.Ware, F.Hopkins, etc. Anderson, Fred "Birdhouse" 1996 Okka Disc. Bang, Billy "Bang On" 1997 Justin Time Bang, Billy "Valve No.10" 1991 Soul Note Bassdrumbone (Helias, R.Anderson, & G.Hemingway) 1997 Enja Beins, Burkhard (w/ M.Ofleider, P. Niklas Wilson) 1997 Hat Hut (limited edition) Berne, Tim "Paraphrase Visitation Rites" 1997 Screw Gun Berne, Tim & M. Formenek "Ornery People" 1997 Little Brother Records Blackwell, Ed "Walls-Bridges" 1996 Soul Note (w/ D.Redman & Cameron Brown) Blake, Ran "Painted Rythms" 1987 GM Recordings Blake, Ran "Short Life of Barbara Monk" 1986 Soul Note Blake, Ran "Unmarked Van" 1997 Soul Note Blakey, Art "I Get a Kick Out Of Bu" 1990 Soul Note Bluiett, Hamiet "Ballads & Blues" 1997 Soul Note Bluiett, Hamiet (& Concept) "Live at Carlos 1:Last Night" 1998 Just a Mem. Bluiett, Hamiet (& Concept) "Live at Carlos I: Another Night" 1997 Just a Memory Bluiett, Hamiet/ MR Abrams "Saying Something For All" 1998 Just a Mem. Braxton, Anthony "5 Compositions (Quartet) 1986" 1986 Soul Note Burton, Ralph (Trio) "The Poem" 1992 DIW (Import) w/ W.Booker - B, J.Cobb - P Catalogue "Penetration" 1996 Hat Hut Cauley, Christopher "FINland" 1997 Eremite (w/ Bendian, W.Parker & S.Swell) Chancey, Vincent "Next Mode" 1996 DIW (Jasrac) w/ DD Jackson, F. Hopkins, etc. Christi, Ellen "Instant Reality" 1995 Network Rec. Christi, Ellen "Reconstruction Of Sound" 1996 Network rec. Christi, Ellen (w/ Menage) "Live at Irving Plaza" 1985 Soul Note Collective 4tet "Live At Crescent" 1998 Leo Lab Collective 4tet "Orca" 1997 Leo Lab Collective 4tet "The Ropedancer" 1996 Leo Lab Colson Unity Troup "No Reservation" 1980 Soul Note Company 91 "Vol. 1" Incus (Bailey, Zorn, Buckethead, etc) Company 91 "Vol. 3" Incus (Bailey, Zorn, Buckethead, etc) Coombes, Nigel & Steve Beresford "Two To Tangle" 1997 Emanem Cyrille, Andrew "Metamusicians' Stomp" 1978 Soul Note (w/ D.Ware, etc.) Cyrille, Andrew "Nuba" 1979 Soul Note Cyrille, Andrew & R.Teitelbaum "Double Clutch" 1996 Silkheart Cyrille, Andrew (Trio) "Good To Go" 1997 Soul Note Dick, Robert "Jazz Standards on Mars" 1997 Enja w/D.Soldier, Dresser, Driscoll...) Dickerson, Walt/Sirone/Cyrille "Life Rays" 1982 Soul Note Dixon, Bill "November 81" 1982 Soul Note Dixon, Bill "Thoughts" 1987 Soul Note DKV Trio (H.Drake, K.Kessler, & K.Vandermark) "Baraka" 1997 Okka Disk Dresser, Mark "The cabinet of Dr.Caligari" 1994 KnitFac. Dunmall, Paul "Soliloquy" Matchless Rec. 1986 (multi tracked saxophones) Ehrlich, Marty & B.Goldberg "Light At The Crossroads" 1997 Songlines Eskelin, Ellery & A.Parkins "Green Bermudas" 1996 Eremite Fasoli, Claudio "Lido" Soul Note 1983 w/ K.Drew, NHOP, B.Altschul Fasteau, Kali "Comraderie" 1998 Flying Note Frazer, Vernon w/ Thomas Chapin "Song of Baobab" 1997 VFCI Ganelin Trio "Ancora Da Capo" 1997 Leo Rec. Ganelin Trio "Poco-A-Poco" 1988 Leo Rec. Ganelin, Vyacheslav "Trio Alliance" 1998 Leo Rec. Golia, Vinny (Large Ensemble) "Portland 1996" 1997 9 Winds Gonzalez, Dennis "The Earth And The Heart" date unknown Konnex Rec. Goodheart, Matthew "Souluminescence" 1996 9winds (w/ G.spearman, L.Ellis, and D.Robinson) Gregorio, Guillermo "Ellipsis" 1997 Hat Hut (Limited edition) Grossman, Steve (quartet) "Hold The Line" 1996 DIW (Jasrac) Hawes, Hampton "Live at the Jazz Showcase, Chicago Vol.2" w/ C.McBee & R.Haynes (Enja 1989) Helias, Mark "Current Set" 1987 Enja (w Tim Berne, G.Osby, Etc.) Helias, Mark "Fictionary" 1196 GM rec. (w/ Eskelin, Rainey, Sarin & Feldman) Hemphill, Julius & Abdul Wadud "Live in New York" 1995 Red Records Hemphill, Julius (Sextet) "At Dr.Kings Table" 1997 New World Rec. Hooker, William "Armageddon" 1995 Homestead Hooker, William "Radiation" 1994 Homestead Hooker, William "Shamballa" 1993 KnitFac. (w/ T.Moore & E.Sharp) Hooker. William/ Lee Ronaldo "Envisioning" 1994 KnitFac. Horvitz, Wayne "Monologue" 1997 Cavity Search Horvitz/B.Morris/W.Parker "Some Order, Long Understood" 1983 Black Saint Jackson, Shannon "What Spirit Say" 1995 DIW (jasrac) w/James Carter Kennel, Hans "Habarigani Brass" 1996 Hat Hut Lindberg, John "Bounce" 1997 Black Saint (w/ D.Douglas, E.Thigpen, L.Ochs) Lonberg-Holm, Fred "Theory Of Motion" 1990 Curious Music w/ Anthony Braxton Malik, Ralph "21st Century Texts" 1992 FMP Malik, Ralph "The Short Farm" 1997 Eremite McCann, Chris-Billy Pierce Trio "Froggin Around" CIMP 1997 (w/ Steve Wallace) Mcphee/Vandermark/Kessler "A Meeting in Chicago" 1998 Okka Disk Milton/Butcher/Hirt (no Title) 1997 FMP Mitchell, Roscoe (And The Note Facotry) "This Dance is for Steve McCall" Black Saint 1993 Morris, Joe "Sweatshop"1993 Riti Morris, Joe & William Parker "Invisable Weave" 1997 No More Rec. Murray, David "Shakill's Warrior" 1991 DIW/Columbia Murray, David & D.Burrell "windward Passages" 1997 Black Saint Murray, David (& P.Dorge's New Jungle Orch.) "The Jazzpar Prize" 1993 Enja Murray, Sunny "Live at Moers-Festival" Moers Music (w/D.Murray, M.Favors, etc.) Music Revelation Ensemble (no Title) 1998 DIW New Winds (R.Dick, H.Robertson, N.Rothenberg) "Potion" 1997 Victo Newton, Lauren "Timbre" 1995 Leo Rec. (w/ Tuchmann, Moerth, Muetter) Newton, Lauren & T.Horstmann "Art Is..." 1994 Leo Rec. Newton, Lauren (no title) Trio L.T.D. + Bertl Muetter 1996 Leo Rec. Parker, Evan (w/ Barry Guy & Paul Lytton) "The Redwood Session" 1996 CIMP (w/ Joe McPhee on one cut) Pavone, Mario "Song For (Septet)" New World Records 1994 Perelman, Ivo "Blue Monk Variations" 1997 CJR (solo sax) Perelman, Ivo "Cama De Terra" 1996 Homestead w/ W.Parker & M.Shipp Perelman, Ivo "En Adir" 1997 Music & Arts (w/ Crispell, G.Hemingway, W.Parker) Perelman, Ivo "Sound Hierarchy" 1997 Music & Arts (same personell as above) Priester, Julian & Sam Rivers "Hints on Light and Shadow" 1997 Postcards Roach, Max "It's Christmas Again" 1994 Soul Note Roach, Max (Double Quartet) "Easy Winners" 1985 Soul Note Rova "Bingo" 1997 Victo Rova (1995) "John Coltrane's Ascension" 1996 Black Saint Rova :The Works (Vol.2)" 1996 Black Saint Shaw, Woody "Two More Pieces of The Puzzle" 1998 32Jazz (2 Cds) Shepp, Archie "The New York Contemporary Five" 1991 Storyville Shepp, Archie & Jasper Van't Hof "The Fifth of May" 1987 L+R Records Shipp, Matthew "By The Law Of Music" Hat Hut (limited) Shipp, Matthew "Symbol Systems" 1995 No More records Tessarollo, Luigi (4tet) "Soul Season" 1997 Soul Note w/ George Garzone Trio Hurricane "Live at Fire in The Valley" 1997 Eremite (P.Murphy, W.Parker, G.Spearman) Varner, Tom "Martian Heartache" 1997 Soul Note (w/ Ellery Eskelin, etc.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com> Subject: Conlon Nancarrow Date: 05 Oct 1998 16:59:14 -0800 I'm slowly working my way through 20 zorn digests that accumulated while I was out of town & then too busy to read them. I don't remember who commented on the Ensemble Modern recording of Nancarrow's music, but I have to warn anyone who has only heard this recording that they really haven't heard Nancarrow's Studies for Player Piano. For that you have to go to the Wergo recordings of the Studies for Player Piano. The ensemble versions of these pieces heard on this disc, arranged by Yvar Mishakoff, are far too slow (humans couldn't play most of them fast enough). The Ensemble Modern recordings of eleven of these studies takes approximately 45 minutes, the most recent recordings of the same works on player piano (from the Wergo sets) takes about 32 minutes. But far worse than the tempo problems, the arrangements, which spread the pitches of Nancarrow's player piano rolls across a small instrumental ensemble. The surprisingly rich timbral effects that Nancarrow is able to achieve using the relatively limited palette of the player piano are gone, replaced by often corny, simplistic orchestrations. In general these arrangements are a travesty, like a colorized movie. Ensemble Modern's playing is quite good, and on the few pieces for live performers that fill out the last third of the disc they're great. And this is the only recording of the Sarabande & Scherzo & of the complete Trio. But still if you want the real deal, go with the Wergo series of discs. Bests, Herb Herb Levy herb@eskimo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen drury <stevedrury@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Aporias Date: 05 Oct 1998 22:38:44 -0400 At 05:21 PM 10/5/98 -0600, Scott Russell wrote: > Aporias is a different beast.... It's a modern classical >chamber piece. Sorry to nitpick after the kind mention, but Aporias is for large orchestra (including 6 -count'em- 6 boy sopranos) with piano solo. However, Zorn's expressed desire when writing for the orchestra was to acheive a chamber music, even soloistic quality in the writing, so I guess both Zorn and Scott are in the money ... --steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leon lee <llee15@ccsf.cc.ca.us> Subject: re: guitar Date: 06 Oct 1998 00:06:43 -0700 (PDT) i know there are tapes of nels cline solo guitar around. one of them is from 'cyberfest 1994 (?)' in which he plays both acoustic and electric. the material ranges from the patented nels chops to lush soundscapes. loren mazzacane conners/keiji haino @ dmg1992 is a nice cd tables of the elements 7"s -- most notably d.bailey's 7" my friend just put out a solo guitar 7" that is quite beautiful. i highly recommend it! gentry densely : solo guitar oblique force the acceleration of color (acoustic) the label is move sounds... info: iceburn @ po box 289 midway ut 84049 (shalom wa'lekkum) peace be with you... Leon Lee _______________________________________________________________________________ "life work in-progress" Students for Creative Music and Experimental Performance, treasurer "What is it to praise? Make yourself particles." -- Rumi - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marcin.Witkowski@wor.tvp.com.pl Subject: San Francisco info wanted Date: 06 Oct 1998 09:37:14 +0200 > Dear zorniers in SF. > > I will be in San Francisco from 2nd to 6th of November (visiting KGO > broadcast station). > I need informations about good CD (new and second hand) shops and places > with Zorn related live music. > I will appreciate any info. > > Thanks > Marcin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Jim Staley Date: 06 Oct 1998 23:12:05 +1000 Are Jim Staley's albums worth getting? Which would people most recommend? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org> Subject: Re: Jim Staley Date: 06 Oct 1998 10:04:00 -0400 (EDT) > Are Jim Staley's albums worth getting? Which would people most recommend? Yes, most certainly. Well, they're all fairly similar in style and scope, so you can't really go wrong - since they're all free improv the things that make the pieces different are the players. I personally would recommend the discs that contain Shelley Hirsch and Ikue Mori (which is actually most of them, maybe even all of them!) - I'm blanking on the title, it's the one with the greenish cover and the zig-zaggy text on the front. The Don Giovanni CD is especially good...I think it's my favorite Staley because of its opera connection. :) (I'm an opera singer) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | | | | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | | | | UMD school of music | | | | m-e-t-a-t-r-o-n p-r-e-s-s | | | http://www.artswire.org/comma | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org> Subject: Scoop Date: 06 Oct 1998 09:42:29 -0700 Here's something interesting - Bill Laswell will be recording with Keiji Haino and Rashid Ali next month, for a release on Avant or Tzadik. Jeff Spirer B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/ Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vlad-Drac@webtv.net (Theo Klaase) Subject: MORE ZORN INTERVIEW! Date: 06 Oct 1998 13:37:05 -0500 (CDT) DUCKWORTH Do you listen to your own music? ZORN No. I think the Spillane record was the 1st thing I really enjoyed listening to. I still come back to that record. All the "game pieces" I never listened to; all the improvised records I never listened to. And I never listened to live performances until the Naked City band. It was bad enough having to play the shit without having to listen to it. DUCKWORTH What happened to get you back to New York ZORN Well, I did a lot of work on the West Coast meeting musicians in jazz-oriented, improvisation-oriented music. And I started promoting my own concerts. I'd just go into a coffee shop and say, "Hey, can I play here on Friday?" And they'd go, "Well, yeah, why not?" I'd make my own posters and put them around. That was 1974. I kept making my own posters until something like '83 or '84. And it was a really great period. No one would come to gigs, but I just loved the opportunity to be able to play, and to compose and then perform it. I think another one of my dissatisfactions was writing these big scores that never got played. In high school, I maybe did one or two performances my whole time, and even that was not very satisfactory. It was like watching my music get butchered by people. And another reason I think I got involved in performing my own stuff was that I'd get it done right. So I started paring the stuff down. That's something that I learned in college. Not writing symphonic works that would never be played, but doing a thing for 4 or 5 or 6 players, then getting the people together, rrefearsing them, and doing it. So, starting from where I dropped out I just said, "Okay, I'm going to meet people, write, perform my music, and play wherever I can play." I played on the street for years. And I had met musicians on the West Coast who eventually gravitated to New York, and we began working together. But in 1974, '75, '76, there were maybe two people I could play with, so I booked trio pieces, you know. DUCKWORTH Where were you playing them? ZORN In my apartment on Lafayette St. across from the Public Theater, at a place I called the Theater of Musical Optics. We used to do weekly concerts. DUCKWORTH Were you getting audiences? ZORN 2,3,4 people. DUCKWORTH Do you think your music changed, or did they have a change in attitude? ZORN I was doing the same fucking shit. My music now is very different that what it was, say, five or ten years aga. But at that particular time I had been doing the "game pieces" and that was improvisational stuff. And sure your music grows. But as far as I was concerned, their attitudes had changed. The music connected with them in some way. ---from the book "Talking Music" by Duckworth maybe at your local Library. -Theodorus - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vlad-Drac@webtv.net (Theo Klaase) Subject: MORE ZORN INTERVIEW! Date: 06 Oct 1998 13:37:05 -0500 (CDT) DUCKWORTH Do you listen to your own music? ZORN No. I think the Spillane record was the 1st thing I really enjoyed listening to. I still come back to that record. All the "game pieces" I never listened to; all the improvised records I never listened to. And I never listened to live performances until the Naked City band. It was bad enough having to play the shit without having to listen to it. DUCKWORTH What happened to get you back to New York ZORN Well, I did a lot of work on the West Coast meeting musicians in jazz-oriented, improvisation-oriented music. And I started promoting my own concerts. I'd just go into a coffee shop and say, "Hey, can I play here on Friday?" And they'd go, "Well, yeah, why not?" I'd make my own posters and put them around. That was 1974. I kept making my own posters until something like '83 or '84. And it was a really great period. No one would come to gigs, but I just loved the opportunity to be able to play, and to compose and then perform it. I think another one of my dissatisfactions was writing these big scores that never got played. In high school, I maybe did one or two performances my whole time, and even that was not very satisfactory. It was like watching my music get butchered by people. And another reason I think I got involved in performing my own stuff was that I'd get it done right. So I started paring the stuff down. That's something that I learned in college. Not writing symphonic works that would never be played, but doing a thing for 4 or 5 or 6 players, then getting the people together, rrefearsing them, and doing it. So, starting from where I dropped out I just said, "Okay, I'm going to meet people, write, perform my music, and play wherever I can play." I played on the street for years. And I had met musicians on the West Coast who eventually gravitated to New York, and we began working together. But in 1974, '75, '76, there were maybe two people I could play with, so I booked trio pieces, you know. DUCKWORTH Where were you playing them? ZORN In my apartment on Lafayette St. across from the Public Theater, at a place I called the Theater of Musical Optics. We used to do weekly concerts. DUCKWORTH Were you getting audiences? ZORN 2,3,4 people. DUCKWORTH Do you think your music changed, or did they have a change in attitude? ZORN I was doing the same fucking shit. My music now is very different that what it was, say, five or ten years aga. But at that particular time I had been doing the "game pieces" and that was improvisational stuff. And sure your music grows. But as far as I was concerned, their attitudes had changed. The music connected with them in some way. ---from the book "Talking Music" by Duckworth maybe at your local Library. -Theodorus - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michel Rondeau <rondelle@bos.ca> Subject: Lust Corner Date: 06 Oct 1998 15:38:35 -0500 Has any body listened to the Winter & Winter album Lust Corner featuring Marc Ribot & Eugene Chadbourne? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vlad-Drac@webtv.net (Theo Klaase) Subject: Zorn-Sites Date: 06 Oct 1998 15:45:00 -0500 (CDT) When is someone going to update those Zorn Websites? -Theodorus - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phil <phil@clarksonp.demon.co.uk> Subject: New Bill Laswell mailing list Date: 06 Oct 1998 23:03:06 +0100 Some of you lot may be interested to hear that a new Bill Laswell mailing list has just been set up - the address is laswell@onelist.com and you can find instructions for subscribing (in both individual post & digest flavours)by checking out http://www.onelist.com. I don't have anything to do with setting the list up, but the more subscribers, the better. Cheers Phil Clarkson phil@clarksonp.demon.co.uk - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> Subject: Roberta Baum query Date: 06 Oct 1998 20:01:17 -0400 The recent Previte retrospective at KF reminded me of one of my favorite one time performances, Roberta Baum's inspired ululations on the composition 'Break the Cups' from Previte's 'Empty Suits'. To the best of my recollection, I've never heard of her before or since. Anyone have any info? Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Q about Sang Phat Date: 06 Oct 1998 20:12:09 EDT I just picked up Sang Phat's _Editor_ CD (Skin Graft GR44CD 1997), and it has very little info contained within the cover...Pat Samson- drums, Mark Shippy- guitar, Todd Rittmann- guitar/banjo, Al Johnson- singer. Also credited is Jim O'Rourke for production. Some really whacked out shit here- crazy improvised rock, played with impeccable musicianship...or something similar. Singer Johnson is an absolute loon here. Anybody care to shed some light on this ensemble? Geeze, this is a great CD... =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale <jhale@sympatico.ca> Subject: Masada String Trio/Hanukkah collection Date: 06 Oct 1998 21:19:09 -0500 FYI: Bikkurim by Masada String Trio is collected as part of a new CD called Festival Of Light on Six Degrees/Koch. Also featured on the disc are Don Byron and Jane Siberry. Erik Friedlander plays on a number of tracks. James Hale - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson <wlt4@mindspring.com> Subject: ESP reissues Date: 06 Oct 1998 23:44:38 -0400 Does anybody know what's happening with the ESP catalog changeover? Should I hold off buying any for the new versions, assuming they'll even happen? Lang Thompson http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4 New at the Funhouse website: Did Elvis Steal Rock 'n' Roll?, The X-Files Movie Bites!, music reviews - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Masada String Trio/Hanukkah collection Date: 06 Oct 1998 23:55:29 -0400 James Hale wrote: > > FYI: Bikkurim by Masada String Trio is collected as part of a new CD > called Festival Of Light on Six Degrees/Koch. > Also featured on the disc are Don Byron and Jane Siberry. Erik > Friedlander plays on a number of tracks. The CD has actually been out since last Chanukah. Yep, it's a keeper! -- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "m. rizzi" <rizzi@netcom.com> Subject: Re: Zorn-Sites Date: 06 Oct 1998 23:03:35 -0700 (PDT) Theo Klaase, demi-God and Icon sez: > >When is someone going to update those Zorn Websites? Which websites? What needs to be updated? Why are you asking the list, rather than the respective webmasters? mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christian Heslop" <xian@mbay.net> Subject: Re: Zorn-Sites Date: 06 Oct 1998 23:28:53 -0700 I think that this question was both semi-rhetorical and apt.My first internet connection was started over two years ago, and every Zorn site from that date has persisted up until now in the same form that they were in when I first encountered them.I think their content shoudl be updated and I believe Theo is asking the list because he is soliciting our opinion on a zorn-related topic.What is it about Zorn enthusiasts that makes us incapable of running web pages.Perhaps we are too healthy to indulge in such fannish pasttimes? ---------- > From: m. rizzi <rizzi@netcom.com> > To: Theo Klaase <Vlad-Drac@webtv.net> > Cc: Zorn Mailing List <zorn-list@xmission.com> > > >When is someone going to update those Zorn Websites? > > Which websites? What needs to be updated? > Why are you asking the list, rather than > the respective webmasters? > > mike > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stefan Verstraeten <stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be> Subject: Eugene Chadbourne (for Europeans only) Date: 07 Oct 1998 09:04:21 +0100 Dear Zornmembers, I got quite an amount of personal emails from european zornlist members where they could get the latest cd's from Eugene Chadbourne. Well, a good european ditributor is Staalplaat. Hope this will solve all the problems. NP: Eric Dolphy 'The complete prestige recordings' (great music) > 6392 Eugene Chadbourne - Insect And Western Insect Attracter CD > 8015 Eugene Chadbourne - Jungle Cookies 2CD > Staalplaat Mailorder > PO Box 11453 > 1001 GL Amsterdam NL > Mon.- Fri. 10am-18pm CET > Phone 31 20 625 4176 > Fax 31 20 623 9281 Their email is mailorder@staalplaat.com -- Stefan Verstraeten - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Zorn-Sites Date: 07 Oct 1998 17:26:47 +1000 > I think that this question was both semi-rhetorical and apt.My first > internet connection was started over two years ago, and every Zorn site > from that date has persisted up until now in the same form that they were > in when I first encountered them.I think their content shoudl be updated > and I believe Theo is asking the list because he is soliciting our opinion > on a zorn-related topic.What is it about Zorn enthusiasts that makes us > incapable of running web pages.Perhaps we are too healthy to indulge in > such fannish pasttimes? Perhaps also it is the fact that he releases over 20 albums every year, and noone can keep up... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Q about Sang Phat Date: 07 Oct 1998 05:59:21 EDT In a message dated 10/7/98 1:34:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ljhender@midway.uchicago.edu writes: > This is actually the second album by the Ohio nowave group, U.S. Maple. > The album's name is Sang Phat Editor. Thanks for the info, Les. I knew I was taking a bit of a gamble with the group/title attempt. I'll check out the first CD. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: God Date: 07 Oct 1998 10:57:57 GMT0BST Al T mentioned: God is simultaneous mutual implication of everything, quoted from Nicholas of somewhere or other. Any info on the author, or his thought? I like this in a Spinoza-Leibniz kind of way. Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Caine's Mahler Project Date: 07 Oct 1998 11:31:38 GMT0BST A note for all list people within concert going distance of England: check out Uri Caine's group this week! fabulous stuff. First time I'd seen Mark Feldman in the flesh - what a player! Two exquisite sounds: a nasty circular bowing motion on the bridge; and (swiftly) sliding the side of his hand down the back of the violin. I can hardly try to rave enough about Don Byron, and won't. I expect great things from Caine, Formanek, Byron and Feldman, and wasn't disappointed. Surprise bonus was Ralph Alessi on trumpet, who was great. Who is he? The name rings a little bell, but can't place him anywhere. My wife was impressed by him too, and thought it was only at the the end (Drunkard In Spring, and maybe the last number of the regular set) that he sounded like a jazz player - she liked his "brass band" style. Cornell Rochester was fine, but his solo on The Little Drummer Boy was a bit too much of the "hard, fast, everything, and then a bit more" for me - it would have been OK/appropriate if, say, they'd beheaded someone at the end of it, but as a fairly delicate melody followed, it just seemed, um, out of place; not at all like Joey's playing on the same piece on the album. Actually, I got the impression (we were sitting in the front row) that Don, Uri, Ralph, Michael and Mark were having a bit of a sneer at this solo - Byron in particular seemed very judgemental about everything on stage (often positively), and I found myself checking him out for approval of my own reactions!! Dave Binney on sax I thought I didn't know, but he was on the Primal Light album - here he played alto rather than soprano, but he didn't seem very involved, and disappeared off stage for a long stretch (what he did play was OK). But the serious disappointment, I thought, was DJ Olive, who seemed to be a total waste of space. MAYBE our seats were too far forward for the PA, but we couldn't hear him when the band was in full swing, and often enough, he was just rooting around for vinyl, and listening to his headphones. Most odd was the fact that he had equal second billing with Don Byron on the publicity ("band of highly acclaimed fellow americans including DJ Olive and Don Byron") - I didn't know who else was in the band until we got to the concert hall! Anyone have any views, gossip on why Caine and Byron (two of my absolute fave music people in the 90s) seem to be outside the Zorn ambit? I first wondered about this when Chris Speed was heard on clarinet on Bar Kokhba (his tenor playing is great, but his clarinet is puny beside Don's); surely Caine and Byron's klezmer credentials are beyond doubt? And was anyone else at the Purcell Room on Monday - if so, could YOU hear DJ Olive? Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Landon Thorpe" <landocal@mail.utexas.edu> Subject: guitar albums and things Date: 07 Oct 1998 08:05:13 -0500 Here are a few good ones: Hans Reichel--Death of the Rare Bird Ymir/Bonobo Beach Reichel--Lower Lurum (w/daxophone) Jim O'Rourke--Remove the Need Jim O'Rourke/K.K. Null--New Kind of Water (np, btw; should be called New Kind of Noisy) O'Rourke--Bad Timing (as you can see, I'm an O'Rourke nut) Steve Reich/Pat Metheny--Electric Counterpoint (better than Zero Tolerance. . . and Song X (w/Ornette) imho. Beautiful, and I think that's what counts) On other recent subjects: Speaking of the Sub Rosa Duo series, anyone have any comments on the Frere-Jones/Mazzacane Connors disc? A recent pickup--Guillermo Gregario: Ellipsis. Quiet and kind of spooky. Quiet free improv, now I like that idea! Anyone have comments on this album or any other info about this guy? This was another O'Rourke buy for me. He plays guitar and accordion on most of the album. My feelings on David S. Ware: When he's playing relatively straight, it is with more emotion than I've heard from almost anyone else. But when he leaves the earth, he completely loses me. Bummer. I like Shipp's By the Law of Music, but it is rather hard to enter. I saw him do a 50-min duo performance with William Parker at the Victory Grill here in Austin about 1.5 years ago, and I think I learned more about free jazz then than I have listening to the stuff on CD for the past 4+ years. Really, live is the only context in which I understand free playing. Interesting. Anyone else have this experience? Landon Thorpe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Charles Jacobus <cjacobus@avesta.com> Subject: Re: Caine's Mahler Project Date: 07 Oct 1998 09:04:17 -0400 DR S WILKIE: > check out Uri Caine's group this week! fabulous > stuff. First time I'd seen Mark Feldman in the > flesh - what a player! I had the privilege of hearing them play at the Knitting Factory a few months ago, and was also blown away. If you haven't already, check out the CD called Primal Light on Winter & Winter. The whole thing is excellent. Dave Douglas is unbelievable. Has anybody seen the film that this music was written for? If so, please comment. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris from Zeke's" <zeke@zeke.com> Subject: RE: Conlon Nancarrow Date: 07 Oct 1998 09:21:25 -0400 Howdy! Herb Levy mentioned: The ensemble versions of these pieces heard on this disc, arranged by Yvar Mishakoff, are far too slow <snip> In general these arrangements are a travesty, like a colorized movie. <snip> But still if you want the real deal, go with the Wergo series of discs. I agree whole heartedly, although I would characterize the Ensemble Moderne more as good silly fun. But if you REALLY want the real deal in Paris there is a Museum of Mechanical Music (sort of close by the Pompidou Center) where they have the player piano and the rolls. I was there about 4 or 5 years ago and spent (I think) 7 francs on a tour, and then asked the guy who owns the place (who gave the tour) if he had any Nancarrow. He said yes, but he didn't like it, and then proceeded to play 4 entire rolls for an audience of my and my girlfriend. I figure the difference between the Wergo discs and the museum is sort of like the difference (to keep the analogy together) between watching the game on TBS and being at Turner Field. (Or for those non-baseball savvy) live recordings and live. S'later Zeke - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: dna & mars Date: 07 Oct 1998 11:33:21 -0400 (EDT) hey, do any of you know how to electronically get in touch with arto lindsay or ikue mori? i'm trying to do some research on dna for an article. also, does anyone know how to get in touch with the folk/folks who run atavistic? private responses are fine. thanks, brent - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: ESP reissues Date: 07 Oct 1998 12:43:24 -0400 (EDT) Don't hold off buying anything. Who knows when new versions will ever appear. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Tue, 6 Oct 1998, Lang Thompson wrote: > Should > I hold off buying any for the new versions, assuming they'll even happen? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen drury <stevedrury@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Nancarrow Date: 07 Oct 1998 21:44:58 -0400 Speaking of Nancarrow, 5 of his studies will be played in transcriptions for 4 human hands on one piano in Boston: Thursday October 15, Jordan Hall, New England Conservatory, 8pm, free. Program also to include music by Messiaen, Donatoni, and Ivan Tcherepnin. -- steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Need help Date: 08 Oct 1998 01:26:33 -0400 Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > Talking about E# and guitar, he has an upcoming record (called GTR OBLQ) > with... Vernon Reid and David Torn!!! Don't know the label (Intuition?). Knitting Factory Records, I think... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com "I'm baa-aa-ack..." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Caine's Mahler Project Date: 08 Oct 1998 02:05:03 -0400 Charles Jacobus wrote: > Has anybody seen the film that [Uri Caine's Mahler project] was > written for? If so, please comment. As a film, it made for a great slideshow. I caught the American premiere of the Caine/Mahler suite a few years ago during the JMT 10th Anniversary Funeral at the Knitting Factory, and not only was the music barely formed at the time (as opposed to the beautifully realized rendition on the Winter&Winter CD), but the film, by Stefan Winter's brother (originally the second Winter in W&W, but he left the company really quickly), struck me as little more than the kind of movie any one of us might shoot if we had a VHS camcorder with us on a tour of various things and sites that had historical significance in Mahler's life. Here a pastoral Austrian landscape, there a slo-oo-ooowww pan across a score or a gravestone... It had all the feel of a student project, and the music on the CD now is most certainly stronger than were the visuals back then. But beyond that... has anyone heard the new W&W CD of Satie piano pieces played on accordion? Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stefan Verstraeten <stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be> Subject: new praxis cd??? Date: 08 Oct 1998 13:39:09 +0100 > From: C Twomey <newpower@interlog.com> > Subject: Re: Praxis - Mold > Hi I'm new to this list. Have you discussed this new Praxis disc yet? > Anyone recognize any samples (beside the ones from the 1st Praxis and the > Smashing Pumpkins)? Surprise for me....... I knew there was a sort of 'best of' praxis cd on Douglas, but apperently, there seems to be a new praxis cd around the house. So, can anyone give some details (label, title,...) Best wishes -- Stefan Verstraeten - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Egan" <degan@excell.com> Subject: Knitting Factory Records sale Date: 08 Oct 1998 06:45:18 -0700 For those of you who haven't been to the Knitting Factory website in the last couple of weeks, Knitting Factory Records has a sale on. It appears that everything in the catalog is on sale at 3 for $25, including shipping. There are also some promo CDs available with an order. I made an order and received fast service, poor packing (although nothing was damaged) and inexplicably, a bill for $26. I'm not inclined to argue though, because I got three regular CDs and two promos in the deal. Now a question. I got Zony Mash's _Brand Spankin' New_, _300_ from Briggan Krause and from Prima Materia, _Albert Ayler's Bells_. Would anyone care to suggest some other KF titles for next month's order? Any must-haves in the catalog? Thanks. - Dave - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads) Date: 08 Oct 1998 06:55:12 PDT >> Sorry, my questions: the song is almost all Quine. So now that money >is >> involved--I'm simply curious--who gets it? >Assuming Zorn did aquire all rights to the recording, and that Zorn is >named as the composer, he would get everything. I've read (something doubtless all you have seen, I just can't remember where...I think it might have been the Gene Santoro feature for downbeat years ago) that JZ cuts all his participants in on all royalties. This may be common knowledge, or it may be untrue, but I've heard Zorn is really warm and decent to musicians he respects, and this would bear that out. Although I imagine this leaves everyone just a little hungry. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jabu <jabu@sminter.com.ar> Subject: Re: Knitting Factory Records sale Date: 08 Oct 1998 11:21:40 -0300 > > > Would anyone care to > suggest some other KF titles for next month's order? Any must-haves in the > catalog? Thanks. > > - Dave Thomas Chapin ,Sky PieceX-Legged sally,Land of giant Dwarfs Tronzo trio ,Roots A.B. > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Knitting Factory Records sale Date: 08 Oct 1998 08:43:47 -0700 On Thu, 8 Oct 1998 06:45:18 -0700 "Dave Egan" wrote: > > Now a question. I got Zony Mash's _Brand Spankin' New_, _300_ from Briggan > Krause and from Prima Materia, _Albert Ayler's Bells_. Would anyone care to > suggest some other KF titles for next month's order? Any must-haves in the > catalog? Thanks. My three favorites on the label: *** - LUCKY WATER: Third Person (1995, KFWCD-156) *** - AGGREGATES 1-26: Arto Lindsay Trio (1995, KFWCD-164) *** - COLD SPELL: Wayne Horvitz & Zony Mash (1997, KFW 201) Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Knitting Factory Records sale Date: 08 Oct 1998 09:34:08 PDT Would anyone care to >> suggest some other KF titles for next month's order? Any must-haves in the >> catalog? Thanks. I was wondering if anyone had heard the Undercover Band (??)'s HOR-FEST album, the Paradox Trio stuff, the Joe Morris/Ken Vandermark/Hans Poppel, or the Liminal stuff? Or E#'s FIELD AND STREAM? I was looking at them, wondering if they were worth more than two listens. --s ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@UVic.CA> Subject: Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads) Date: 08 Oct 1998 10:21:27 -0700 (PDT) > > >Assuming Zorn did aquire all rights to the recording, and that Zorn is > >named as the composer, he would get everything. > > I've read (something doubtless all you have seen, I just can't remember > where...I think it might have been the Gene Santoro feature for downbeat > years ago) that JZ cuts all his participants in on all royalties. This > may be common knowledge, or it may be untrue, but I've heard Zorn is > really warm and decent to musicians he respects, and this would bear > that out. Although I imagine this leaves everyone just a little hungry. Exactly - the musicians would certainly get a cut of "net" not "gross", which, in the context of an independent label release, is usually precisely $0. If the album happened to net $10,000, an artist who played on two tracks of a 10 cut release would usually get 2% (1% per track) at the most - $200. This is about two hours worth of a union gig. If Zorn's musicians were getting more, I'd be very impressed.... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Knitting Factory Records sale Date: 08 Oct 1998 13:30:26 EDT In a message dated 10/8/98 12:37:12 PM, c123018@hotmail.com wrote: <<I was wondering if anyone had heard the Undercover Band (??)'s HOR-FEST album, the Paradox Trio stuff, the Joe Morris/Ken Vandermark/Hans Poppel, or the Liminal stuff? >> the two Liminal discs aren't especially exciting, with Nosferatu being a bit better than Pre-Set. the "illbient" experience has yet to be captured on disc, and at this point, probably won't be. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M.Ho" <mus4mth@atlas.vcu.edu> Subject: other Ribot Date: 08 Oct 1998 13:33:06 EDT I'm curious about Greg Ribot and his music. In this months Knit Knotes they mentioned that he had released two albums, one which was Argentinian music and another of original tunes. Does anyone know how I can get my hands on these albums? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Knitting Factory Records sale Date: 08 Oct 1998 10:40:45 -0700 > Would anyone care to >>> suggest some other KF titles for next month's order? Any must-haves >in the >>> catalog? Thanks. > >I was wondering if anyone had heard the Undercover Band (??)'s HOR-FEST >album, the Paradox Trio stuff, the Joe Morris/Ken Vandermark/Hans >Poppel, or the Liminal stuff? Or E#'s FIELD AND STREAM? I was looking >at them, wondering if they were worth more than two listens. > I have Field and Stream, and I like it, though I have only listened to it twice thus far. I think it's the most successful of Elliott's electronic projects thus far, MUCH better than the abysmal first Tectonics record. The first tune is a very cool drum 'n bass piece, though it's not programmed by E#, the rest is more of his typical guitar and electronics stuff. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: new label: nuscope Date: 08 Oct 1998 12:23:23 PDT I got this info off Peter Stubley's excellent European Free Improv Site, which is my second home: Nuscope Nuscope Recordings P.O. Box 601027 Dallas, Texas 75360; e-mail: russumm@msn.com. "Producer Russell Summers started nuscope recordings in 1998 to document the daring and life-affirming musics of musicians whose goals are to stimulate, mystify, and move. These musicians also have the great gift to shatter preconceived perceptions of what music and sound are all about. With sound artists such as Fred Van Hove, Georg GrΣwe, and others, nuscope recordings hopes to bring about fresh perspectives of improvised and other vital musics. Although the music on the nuscope recordings label will vary, one thing remains consistent. That is, all of these musicians present their music, regardless of label, with added artistic value." The catalogue of nuscope recordings began with two releases in October 1998. The Graewe in question is a trio recording w/Michael Vatcher (the Zorn connection, for topical-compulsives) on drums and Marcio Mattas (never heard of him) on acoustic bass, recorded live at the LOFT in Koln (same location as SATURN CYCLE, which everyone needs now). The Fred Van Hove is solo piano, recorded in Chicago. Check out the covers on Stubley's site, they look beautiful (a Cy Twombly sculpture on one). cheers! s ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Gannushkin <shkin@jazz.ru> Subject: Re: Knitting Factory Records sale Date: 08 Oct 1998 23:36:11 +0300 Hello Dave, ≈σ≥Γσ≡π, 8 ╬Ω≥ ß≡ⁿ 1998, you wrote to me: DE> For those of you who haven't been to the Knitting Factory website in the DE> last couple of weeks, Knitting Factory Records has a sale on. It appears DE> that everything in the catalog is on sale at 3 for $25, including shipping. DE> There are also some promo CDs available with an order. I made an order and DE> received fast service, poor packing (although nothing was damaged) and DE> inexplicably, a bill for $26. I'm not inclined to argue though, because I DE> got three regular CDs and two promos in the deal. DE> Now a question. I got Zony Mash's _Brand Spankin' New_, _300_ from Briggan DE> Krause and from Prima Materia, _Albert Ayler's Bells_. Would anyone care to DE> suggest some other KF titles for next month's order? Any must-haves in the DE> catalog? Thanks. Check these great CDs. Pay maximum attention to Kazutoki Umezu and Third Person: Lucky Water with him. Braxton/Pavone: Seven Standards Thomas Chapin: Third Force, Menagerie Dreams, Plus Strings, Sky Piece Matt Darriau Paradox Trio Pachora Mario Pavone: Dancer's Tales Peep: Joy Of Being Kazutoki Umezu: Eclecticism, First Deserter Blue Dog: What Is Anything Third Person: Lucky Water Best regards, Peter Gannushkin e-mail: shkin@jazz.ru URL: http://www.jazz.ru/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dominique Leone" <d_leone@hotmail.com> Subject: Jewish? Date: 08 Oct 1998 12:58:28 PDT Are all of the people who play in Masada groups Jewish? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: new label: nuscope Date: 08 Oct 1998 17:05:49 EDT In a message dated 10/8/98 3:53:26 PM, c123018@hotmail.com wrote: <<Marcio Mattas (never heard of him) on acoustic bass>> Marcio Mattos is a member of the unsung trio Bardo State Orchestra, in addition to being a member of Chris Burn's Ensemble, which I had the pleasure of seeing at last year's Victoriaville festival. I can't say Mattos' playing was especially memorable, but he held his own with the likes of John Butcher, John Russell, Phil Durrant, and Burn. The disc that this group released recently, _Navigations_ (Acta), is very good, although maybe lacking a bit in the fire department. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Kim Sinh Date: 08 Oct 1998 15:15:24 -0500 Coupla non-zorn related questions: 1) I've been completely enjoying, for some time now, a disc called "The Art of Kim Sinh" (World Music Library, 1991). Sinh is a contemporary Vietnamese singer and guitarist, now about 68 years old, who's apparently rather popular in Vietnam. He works out of a folk tradition (Gai Luong), though I'm guessing that, to a Vietnamese, his work would sound somewhat "modern" (maybe the way Fahey's does to us Westerners). Very beautiful stuff. Does anyone know of other recordings by this guy? I've been unable to locate any. 2) The several releases I've heard from this label, World Music Library, are of exceptional quality. This, despite the fact that they often come packaged as a kind of generic sampler (ie, 'Instrumental Music of Vietnam', 'Music of Khazakstan', etc). Does this level of quality hold true for the rest of the catalogue? Any specific recommendations? Thanks, Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com> Subject: Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads) Date: 08 Oct 1998 15:29:44 -0800 Part of what Zorn splits with participating musicians (when the track is functionally improvised, including the game pieces) is the composer royalties, which are paid (at least in the States, but I think the formula is similar in many other countries) based on the time length of a track x number of units sold. The payment of composer's royalties is separate from any other deals about fees for sales for players, etc.; it's part of the copyright law in every country that's part of the international copyright agreement & it does get paid out of the gross, not the net. Considering that some of his discs sell pretty well, players, at least in small group recordings players, would get substantially more than session pay, which they also receive when they record. Bests, Herb "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@UVic.CA> wrote: >> >> >Assuming Zorn did aquire all rights to the recording, and that Zorn is >> >named as the composer, he would get everything. >> >> I've read (something doubtless all you have seen, I just can't remember >> where...I think it might have been the Gene Santoro feature for downbeat >> years ago) that JZ cuts all his participants in on all royalties. This >> may be common knowledge, or it may be untrue, but I've heard Zorn is >> really warm and decent to musicians he respects, and this would bear >> that out. Although I imagine this leaves everyone just a little hungry. > >Exactly - the musicians would certainly get a cut of "net" not "gross", >which, in the context of an independent label release, is usually >precisely $0. If the album happened to net $10,000, an artist who played >on two tracks of a 10 cut release would usually get 2% (1% per track) >at the most - $200. This is about two hours worth of a union gig. If >Zorn's musicians were getting more, I'd be very impressed.... > > >- - Herb Levy herb@eskimo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Kim So-Hee, Cecil Date: 08 Oct 1998 19:04:25 -0400 I recently picked up a disc of of P'ansori music on Nonesuch that features a vocalist named Kim So-Hee and was really impressed. I'm wondering what other recordings of hers are in existence. I know Zorn's a big fan... I highly recommend any traditional Korean music!! Does anyone know if the Cecil Taylor double-LP on BYG ever got reissued onto CD? Thanks. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re: JZ and royalties Date: 08 Oct 1998 19:53:57 -0500 Cappy D'Angelo wrote: > > > > > >Assuming Zorn did aquire all rights to the recording, and that Zorn is > > >named as the composer, he would get everything. > > > > I've read (something doubtless all you have seen, I just can't remember > > where...I think it might have been the Gene Santoro feature for downbeat > > years ago) that JZ cuts all his participants in on all royalties. This > > may be common knowledge, or it may be untrue, but I've heard Zorn is > > really warm and decent to musicians he respects, and this would bear > > that out. Although I imagine this leaves everyone just a little hungry. > > Exactly - the musicians would certainly get a cut of "net" not "gross", > which, in the context of an independent label release, is usually > precisely $0. If the album happened to net $10,000, an artist who played > on two tracks of a 10 cut release would usually get 2% (1% per track) > at the most - $200. This is about two hours worth of a union gig. If > Zorn's musicians were getting more, I'd be very impressed.... I've often wondered about this in the case of JZ, since so much of his music is improvised by the players, and Ive heard from one somewhat irate JZ collaborator who thought that his(and the other bandmembers) contributions amounted to composition, and credit due, which was not forthcoming. Cultural imperialism, I believe was the term this person used. Other than that, I have no specific knowledge of what or how JZ pays people, but I can speak to the general situation with indie releases. In the case of a record that is issued under the artists name, with the artist listed as composer of record, The musicians have no stake in the recording, or in the publishing rights, unless the artist specificly assigns them some portion. Not a likely scenario. I cant help but think that this could be a logistical nightmare for an artist. Its Hard to imagine JZ doing the work of a dozen Harry Fox agency accountants just to pay out dozens(hundreds?) of $3.58 checks every six months. What would happen if all his past collaborators requested an audit? When would he have time to write 200+Masada compositions? Of course, none of this precludes less formal arrangements. Perhaps someone here has the definitive answer...... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cbwdeluxe1@aol.com Subject: Re: Jewish? Date: 08 Oct 1998 22:34:52 EDT i would have no idea about the denomination of his players, but i am genuinly curious about the implication and reason for your question, and actually think it's one of the better ones i've come across here. care to elaborate? clint - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Kim Sinh Date: 08 Oct 1998 23:57:06 -0400 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > 1) I've been completely enjoying, for some time now, a disc called > "The Art of Kim Sinh" (World Music Library, 1991). Sinh is a > contemporary Vietnamese singer and guitarist, now about 68 years old, > who's apparently rather popular in Vietnam. He works out of a folk > tradition (Gai Luong), though I'm guessing that, to a Vietnamese, his > work would sound somewhat "modern" (maybe the way Fahey's does to us > Westerners). Ironically, it was Jim O'Rourke, one of those most responsible for the Fahey resurgence, who urged me to check out that Kim Sinh disc. I don't know if Sinh has anything else readily available in the U.S., but at least this one disc should be readily available to the curious. > 2) The several releases I've heard from this label, World Music > Library, are of exceptional quality. This, despite the fact that they > often come packaged as a kind of generic sampler (ie, 'Instrumental > Music of Vietnam', 'Music of Khazakstan', etc). Does this level of > quality hold true for the rest of the catalogue? Any specific > recommendations? The quality across the board is excellent, and because I worked at Koch (World Music Library's distributor) for several years, I've actually heard nearly all of the first 175 releases (I think there are now over 200). Each of them has something to recommend it, and many of them have curiously translated notes that lead to some exceptionally screwy phraseology (even on the front cover blurbs). The one WML that is truly a steady part of my life is 5192, "Chitti Babu, The Art of Vina II," an incredibly beautiful album of South Indian karnatic music by a composer named Tyagaraja, who is considered the "Beethoven of South India" according to the notes. Chitti Babu is a virtuosic player on the vina, which sounds to me to be a baritone sitar-like instrument, and the music is simply divine. I'm no expert in Indian music in general but this is one of my favorite albums of any style... of course, I most frequently use it for background, but it can be listened to attentively as well, natrually. Interestingly enough, the cover blurb states that Chitti Babu's phenomenal technique "has given birth to new styles such as octave and harmonic playing" which leads me to believe that Babu, like Fahey and Sinh, is someone who is subverting and expanding traditional music from the inside out, rather than vice versa. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Charles Gillett" <gill0042@tc.umn.edu> Subject: Re: guitar albums and things Date: 08 Oct 1998 23:41:50 +0000 On Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:05:13 -0500, "Landon Thorpe" wrote: > Here are a few good ones: [...] > Jim O'Rourke/K.K. Null--New Kind of Water (np, btw; should be called New > Kind of Noisy) Can you tell me more about this album? I haven't been able to find a track list or any information on it; is there any indication why it's named after a This Heat song? > On other recent subjects: > Speaking of the Sub Rosa Duo series, anyone have any comments on the > Frere-Jones/Mazzacane Connors disc? I've seen it around, but haven't gotten it. What is the point of this series, anyway? The split-LP format isn't very appealing. This week's purchases have all been Albert Ayler CDs, except for the Alan Silva ESP disc. I doubt anyone here who already listens to Ayler hasn't gotten the Greenwich Village set, so I won't bother recommending it. -- Charles - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cd <cappyd@uvic.ca> Subject: Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads) Date: 08 Oct 1998 22:59:42 -0700 I was referring to royalties in respect of performance. The mandatory fees in respect of composition are often called the "performance right" (not to be confused with performer's rights). For example, when something is played on the radio, the composer gets a royalty. When a composer's work is recorded, the maker of the recording pays a flat fee per track per copy (unless the track is very short or part of a medley) which was about seven cents (on units-not sale price) the last time I paid it (this is often split between composer(s) and publisher 50/50). It's interesting that he gives everyone composition credit on the improvised works. Copyright law would traditionally say there is no copyright in improvised works themselves as they don't meet the fixation requirement... On just about every Zorn album I own, Zorn claims "all music composed and arranged by John Zorn" or "all music by John Zorn". A curious exception is Angelus Novus which seems to be silent on the issue (I couldn't find anything) though the score for "Carny" reads (c) 1992 TOMO (BMI). The Masada disks and first Naked City disk are also TOMO (BMI). Thus, it appears that in all these cases the royalties are payable to Tzadik (Zorn), TOMO (Zorn), or BMI for TOMO (Zorn) and any monies payable to the musicians are not by copyright law but by contract between Zorn and those individuals. I'll try to ask BMI who they send the royalties to. Better yet I'll try to ask Zorn when he comes to Seattle next month. What does the Filmworks in question (#1?) say - is the guitarist given composer credit? Considering how well and how often the musicians play for Zorn, and how highly they speak of him, he must be paying them well. Either that or they are all hipnotized with Cobra flashcards (except Trey S.) after which time Zorn communicates telepathically. That is the only way to explain how tight Naked City was... -cd Herb Levy wrote: > > Part of what Zorn splits with participating musicians (when the track is > functionally improvised, including the game pieces) is the composer > royalties, which are paid (at least in the States, but I think the formula > is similar in many other countries) based on the time length of a track x > number of units sold. The payment of composer's royalties is separate from > any other deals about fees for sales for players, etc.; it's part of the > copyright law in every country that's part of the international copyright > agreement & it does get paid out of the gross, not the net. > > Considering that some of his discs sell pretty well, players, at least in > small group recordings players, would get substantially more than session > pay, which they also receive when they record. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cd <cappyd@uvic.ca> Subject: Re: Jewish? Date: 08 Oct 1998 23:31:56 -0700 I've wondered also. For several years I played in a few "Reggae" bands. Although some of the members were Rastafarians, most weren't. Those who weren't black Rasatarians (ie those who were not black, those who were not black and claimed to be Rastafarians, and those who were black but weren't Rastafarians) were often openly criticized by Rastafarians who profess that if you are not a Rastafarian you should not play Reggae. This is because Reggae is the music of the Rastafarians, and to be Rasta you must, by definition, be Black. They were most critical of the "white Rastas" as they have no reason or right to claim to be Rasta, and of the "baldheads" who were against the Rasta cause by not being with it (or so they claim). They almost had me convinced that if I insisted on skanking, I should at least not mention Jah or Babylon or Zion etc. Similarly, I felt odd singing Handel's Messiah in first year music school being an Atheist - I can't sing "Hallelujah" with the same passion as the Christians... Although I don't think any culture (whether religious, ethnic, geographic etc.) should be able to restrict the use of a series of notes or a rythmic motif, I can't help but feel that there MAY be a reasonable argument that if you're not Rasta you can't play "Rasta music" or if you're not Jewish you can't play "Jewish Music" with the same passion (for lack of a better term) than someone who is (however you define "Rasta" or "Jewish"). I should be clear that of course this could apply to any music or art which is associated with a certain culture. (Please excuse any Political Incorrectness of my post - or at least address such comments to me personally as to not waste bandwidth). Comments? What do Zorn's musicians have to say? -cd Cbwdeluxe1@aol.com wrote: > > i would have no idea about the denomination of his players, but i am genuinly > curious about the implication and reason for your question, and actually think > it's one of the better ones i've come across here. care to elaborate? > clint > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FJG_Lamerikx <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> Subject: Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads) Date: 09 Oct 1998 08:38:03 +0200 (MET DST) > Considering how well and how often the musicians play for Zorn, and how > highly they speak of him, he must be paying them well. Either that or > they are all hipnotized with Cobra flashcards (except Trey S.) after > which time Zorn communicates telepathically. That is the only way to > explain how tight Naked City was... Why does it say "except Trey S." (S for Spruance, I presume) here? Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Felix" <jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt> Subject: Recent Goddies + female voices Date: 08 Oct 1998 22:20:31 +0100 Hello there. Just got Zorn's "The Big Gundown" really cheap (I honestly think that the people at the store made a mistake when labelling the price tag on the CD...) It's really good, kinda hard to get used to, though. It took me some hours of listening to start really appreciating the individual tracks. For those that don't have it (impossible, I know, I must have been the last guy on the list buying it), get it. It's a must have for Zorn OR Morricone fans. It presents a big bundle of musicians, like Fred Firth, Wayne Horvitz, Bill Frisell, Bobby Previte, Robert Quine, Anton Fier, Arto Lindsay, and many, many other well-know artists of the downtown scene (they're just too much to number.) My other recent goodie, on the other hand, I completely fell in love with at first listen. Following the recommendations of some people on this list, I got Charles Mingus' "The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady" and must say that I am thankful we can post the off-topic post from now and then. It's a sad album, but it's also the best Mingus I have heard. And now for my question. I'm looking for some female vocalists, and am particularly interested in Shelley Hirsh and Diamanda Galas (of which i don't know anything except 'Metamorfosi' from The Big Gundown). Any reccomendations would be really appreciated. Now playing: Morricone/Zorn - "Poverty (Once upon a time in America)" Thanks Felix jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Ayler Date: 09 Oct 1998 10:45:08 GMT0BST Charles Gillet doubts whether anyone who listens to Ayler hasn't got Greenwich Village so doesn't bother recommending it. I'll have to blow this one out: I listen to Ayler quite a lot, but perhaps it's more accurate to say I listen to the Ayler/Peacock/Murray trio and the quartet (with Don Cherry added). I have a little other Ayler stuff: but - apart from Spirits Rejoice - this might only be because there's also some stuff by the trio or quartet on the same disc (Bells/Prophecy, and a live 1964+1966 disc). So I haven't leapt at the Greenwich Village stuff, and need some bad-ass recommendation if I'm going to do so ... awaiting the bad-ass reco Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar Subject: Knitting Factory Records sale Date: 09 Oct 1998 09:54:42 -0300 Dave Egan wrote: >suggest some other KF titles for next month order? Any must-have in the I'd suggest: Flying at a Slant: Matt Dariau's Paradox Trio (paradoxically it's a quartet) Jews And The Abstract Truth: Hasidic New Wave -KFW 192 The Luckiest Boy In The World: Oren Bloedow- KFW 115 Cold Spell: W. Horvitz & Zony Mash (if you like A go-go music) Vibes: Bill Ware/E.J.Rodriguez/Brad Jones (very nice) Din Of Inequity: Steven Bernstein's Sex Mob (try this!, fun, music and Briggan Krauss!)-KFW/Columbia The Joy Of Being- Peep;- KFW 204 (My favorite. Please don't miss this one!!) I don't recommend: The Sign Of Four- Metheny-Bendian & Co. No Vibe Zone- Don Byron Quintet (not a bad cd, but I prefer other Byrons) Good shopping and listening! Hugo - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert A. Pleshar" <rpleshar@midway.uchicago.edu> Subject: World Music Library Re: Kim Sinh Date: 09 Oct 1998 08:08:44 -0500 (CDT) Hi- I've heard the first 100 or so of this series and all are beautifully recorded and most have music that is fulfilling. I only remember a couple of duds, but can't remember what they are. Some that stand out as particularly good to me are: Hsaing Waing of Myanmar Turkish Military band music of the Ottoman Empire Sinawi Music of Korea a disc of North Indian Vocal music whose name escapes me several discs of Mongolian khoomei (overtone singing) and morin khuur (violin) playing the afrementioned Kim Sinh disc a gamelan composed of bamboo instruments (Javanese, I think) along with several other fine gamelan and Indonesian records plenty to keep folks busy, Ralph - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Hollo <raven@fourplay.com.au> Subject: Re: Jewish? Date: 10 Oct 1998 00:05:08 +1000 Well, going from the names alone, Dave Douglas would be Jewish (Michael and Kurt Dougals are anyway...) Greg Cohen would be, and Joey Baron most probably is. Mark Feldman would be, as would Erik Friedlander. They play like Jews too! However, Don Byron plays fantastic klezmer and is of course not Jewish, proving that You Don't HAVE To Be Jewish (but, as they say, it chelps.) Erm... David Krakauer I'm sure is, but I wouldn't know about Chris Speed (there *are* Jewish Chris's but still...) John Medeski, well these Eastern European names are often indicative of Jewishness, and especially when associated with music/Jewish music so yes... Mark Dresser similarly, and Kenny Wolleson probably. Anthony Coleman is for sure; the name *can* indicate Jewishness but needn't - anyone know is *Andy* Coleman who is aka Animals on Wheels (mad drum'n'bass dude now on Ninja Tune) is Jewish? (As if anyone would know). Marc Ribot? I'm interested in this one, I really don't know. And then Cyro Baptista, well, even more than Chris Speed this is a Jewish name, but South Americans can have names like this without it necessarily meaning much. These three then (in this paragraph) are the only ones who I would not be quite sure are Jewish. I've been interested in this too, for the sole reason that I'm Jewish and I'm just interested. It seems one doesn't have to be Jewish to do klezmer well, but it does help - I know that I intutively know how to play Jewish music (on the cello as it happens) and I'm an atheist, hardly ever been to synagogue, and don't even have a great deal of the culture (youth groups etc) in my background (just a pervading Jewishness). Also wondering then: is DJ Olive of We (who Djed on the wonderful Primal Light album of Uri Caine/Gustav Mahler Jewish? Now on THAT album: Aaron Benoussan, undoutedly (whoever heard of a cantor who was a goy anyway?) Dave Binney - who knows? Danny Blume, for sure with that name. Dean Bowman and also Arto Lindsay - who knows again? Arto is South American I believe and again it's possible but I dunno. Michael Formanek - another Eastern European name, most probably yes. And Larry Gold for sure. [Actually, the only drawback on this album is I really miss Greg Cohen's bass playing and Erik Friedlander's cello playing. These last two are good but the tone and the passion just aren't the same...] And John Roseman - most probably... Anyone who could give a fuck and knows about the question marks, I'm interested. Especially DJ Olive - there aren't a great deal of Jews working in the electronic/sampling/whatever area, so I'd love to know. I do a bit of that music myself... As to why one is interested? It's hard to explain to someone who isn't Jewish, but it's the sort of feeling one has of the extended family of the Jews... partially the (only slightly paranoid and perverse) sense that whether or not one feels strongly Jewish or is indeed like me an atheist, the bigots, the Hitlers, won't give a fuck - it'll be off to the concentration camps anyway. So there's this sense of that (rather morbid) commonality. But on the positive side, there's this culture, this music for instance that everyone on this list loves so much, which we as Jews are part of, and it's both very interesing that there are non-Jews who participate so fruitfully in it (eg Don Byron) and also interesting just who *is* Jewish, who shares this cultural background with us. A lot of people couldn't give two hoots about any such commonality or whatever. However, in a world where as a Jew one can very often be made to feel like a foreigner (an "Auslander") in any country at all (and plenty of people even threaten/resent our own ill-begotten "homeland" Israel), having these roots of some sort, and discovering other people who can one can identify with in certain respects, is part of what makes up and confirms our identity. Ask yourself why you're on the John Zorn list, and why you most probably latch on to people at parties and wherever who share your interests in music... Well, the interest by someone like me at least in who is Jewish is similar to this. Perhaps I'm searching for my own identity in some way in this. Sorry for the long meandering post, hope it was perhaps a bit elucidating. Peter. -- Peter Hollo raven@fourplay.com.au http://www.fourplay.com.au/me.html FourPlay - Eclectic Electric String Quartet http://www.fourplay.com.au "Of course, dance music can be a music where you lie on your back and your brain cells dance" -Michael Karoli of Can, quoted in Wire mag. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cbwdeluxe1@aol.com Subject: Re: Knitting Factory Records sale Date: 09 Oct 1998 10:03:21 EDT >suggest some other KF titles for next month order? Any must-have doesn't the new bongwater box set come out this month or next? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Jewish? Date: 09 Oct 1998 09:08:10 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 8 Oct 1998, cd wrote: > Although I don't think any culture (whether religious, ethnic, > geographic etc.) should be able to restrict the use of a series of notes > or a rythmic motif, I can't help but feel that there MAY be a reasonable > argument that if you're not Rasta you can't play "Rasta music" or if > you're not Jewish you can't play "Jewish Music" with the same passion > (for lack of a better term) than someone who is (however you define > "Rasta" or "Jewish"). I think Don Byron's klezmer work would show that not to be true. - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Charles Jacobus <cjacobus@avesta.com> Subject: re: Jewish? Date: 09 Oct 1998 10:21:19 -0400 > argument that if you're not Rasta you can't play "Rasta music" or if > you're not Jewish you can't play "Jewish Music" with the same passion > (for lack of a better term) than someone who is (however you define > "Rasta" or "Jewish"). I think Don Byron's klezmer work would show that not to be true. I agree. Anyway, Zorn's so-called Jewish music is as indebted to western and non-European traditions. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Shelley Hirsch, Cecil Taylor Date: 09 Oct 1998 10:41:43 -0400 (EDT) > And now for my question. I'm looking for some female vocalists, and am > particularly interested in Shelley Hirsh and Diamanda Galas (of which i > don't know anything except 'Metamorfosi' from The Big Gundown). Any > reccomendations would be really appreciated. I'm also wondering about where to find albums by Hirsch -maybe something less conceptual than _States_ or _O Little TOwn of East New York, which are entertaining but not things I would listen to frequently. I know of one track with her and Chris Cutler and Jon Rose on one the ReR samplers which is sort of a bizarre drama/comedy thing which I really like, but I'd like to find something which features her singing in the same ways as the stuff on _The Big Gundown_ and _Filmworks I_, whether its one of her own albums or a collaboration. So by all means let me know. (Btw, I saw in the liner notes to Arnold Dreyblatt's amazing CD _Animal Magnetism on Tzadik that she had worked with him, which was surprising.) Here's my other question: I'm going to order one or two of the Cecil Taylor CDs on FMP (all I can afford right now), and I'm think of Looking/Feel Trio and The Tree of Life, but basically I'm looking for something on the relatively softer side from this late period. Specifically, if anyone has seen his video on Mystic Fire, the last song w/ him, Parker, and Oxley (+ another percussionist) is the kind of thing I'm looking for (in terms of small groups) and something like "After All" from Silent Tongues in terms of solo piano. Thanks to anyone who can point me in the write direction. P.S. I have Silent Tongues, 3 Phasis, Nefertiti, and For Olim already so if there are any other big ones I'm missing let me know. I'm on a limited budget unfortunately. WY - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Corey Marc Fogel <mecorey@imap3.asu.edu> Subject: re: Jewish? Date: 09 Oct 1998 08:57:58 -0700 (MST) On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Charles Jacobus wrote: > > argument that if you're not Rasta you can't play "Rasta music" or > > you're not Jewish you can't play "Jewish Music" with the same > > (for lack of a better term) than someone who is (however you > > "Rasta" or "Jewish"). > I think Don Byron's klezmer work would show that not to be true. there's a difference between playing Jewish music (or any music specific to one's own heritage) with your heart and playing it with your brain. > I agree. Anyway, Zorn's so-called Jewish music is > as indebted to western and non-European traditions. only the western and non-European aspects, which more or less makes Masada Changes of a Century (correct title?) By Ornette Coleman, when you strip away the "so-called" Jewish aspects. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: re: Jewish? Date: 09 Oct 1998 11:03:27 -0500 (CDT) On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Corey Marc Fogel wrote: > there's a difference between playing Jewish music (or any music specific to > one's own heritage) with your heart and playing it with your brain. And that difference is...? - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M.Ho" <mus4mth@atlas.vcu.edu> Subject: Re: Jewish? Date: 09 Oct 1998 12:37:36 EDT > > Marc Ribot? I'm interested in this one, I really dont know. Marc Ribot is Jewish and did a very interesting interview for the Jewish Student Press Service about his views on the Radical New Music Jewish Festival and Jewish music, the resurgence of it in the downtown music scene and how he identifies with it. Check it out at http://shamash.org/schmooze/jsps/index.html I highly recommend it and would like comments on the interview. -Mary - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Felix" <jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt> Subject: Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads) Date: 09 Oct 1998 14:34:11 +0100 >On just about every Zorn album I own, Zorn claims "all music composed >and arranged by John Zorn" or "all music by John Zorn". A curious >exception is Angelus Novus which seems to be silent on the issue (I >couldn't find anything) though the score for "Carny" reads (c) 1992 TOMO >(BMI). The Masada disks and first Naked City disk are also TOMO (BMI). >Thus, it appears that in all these cases the royalties are payable to >Tzadik (Zorn), TOMO (Zorn), or BMI for TOMO (Zorn) and any monies >payable to the musicians are not by copyright law but by contract >between Zorn and those individuals. I'll try to ask BMI who they send >the royalties to. Better yet I'll try to ask Zorn when he comes to >Seattle next month. What does the Filmworks in question (#1?) say - is >the guitarist given composer credit? > >Considering how well and how often the musicians play for Zorn, and how >highly they speak of him, he must be paying them well. Either that or >they are all hipnotized with Cobra flashcards (except Trey S.) after >which time Zorn communicates telepathically. That is the only way to >explain how tight Naked City was... Well, in Filmworks 1 (from which the track in question comes), it reads something like this (I don't have the booklet in front of me): "All tracks composed and arranged by John Zorn with colaborations (sp?) from all the other players". Anyway, I agree with you. Since John Zorn is taken in such high regard by his players, and since they seem to always come back for more, then he must be paying them or they would starve. I don't doubt Zorn's composer capabilities. He did not became the awe-inspiring musician he is now by a mere stroke of luck. Felix jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org> Subject: Re: JZ and royalties (was Zorn, Microsoft, ads) Date: 09 Oct 1998 10:41:02 -0700 At 02:34 PM 10/9/98 +0100, Felix wrote: >Anyway, I agree with you. Since John Zorn is taken in such high regard by >his players, and since they seem to always come back for more, then he must >be paying them or they would starve. This isn't a comment about Zorn specifically. Many of the musicians I know, recording regularly and perceived as "successful" in the outside-the-mainstream music world, have day jobs or live a very marginalized existence. The royalties from CDs selling 1000-10,000 copies are not particularly big. Many would starve if they tried to live on these royalties. The lucky ones have jobs in the music business. One of Laswell's regulars is on CDs by Michael Jackson, Vanessa Williams, etc. A lot of people look at that and say it's too bad, but it sure beats moving pianos or working in a retail store. Jeff Spirer B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/ Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dennis summers <denniss@ic.net> Subject: Knit Sale Date: 09 Oct 1998 13:32:43 -0600 Thanx for the info. I've placed my order: Brand Spankin New; 2 (Larval) and Byron's No Vibe Zone. Can't wait. yours in zornocity --ds ***Quantum Dance Works*** ****http://ic.net/~denniss**** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: world music library Date: 09 Oct 1998 13:40:05 PDT Is there a website for WML? Could someone post some contact info, if any exists on the sleeves or liner notes? Thak you. --s ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Corey Marc Fogel <mecorey@imap3.asu.edu> Subject: re: Jewish? Date: 09 Oct 1998 14:40:18 -0700 (MST) On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Joseph S. Zitt wrote: > On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Corey Marc Fogel wrote: > > > there's a difference between playing Jewish music (or any music specific to > > one's own heritage) with your heart and playing it with your brain. > > And that difference is...? think about it. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: re: Jewish? Date: 09 Oct 1998 17:02:32 -0500 (CDT) On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Corey Marc Fogel wrote: > > > On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Joseph S. Zitt wrote: > > > On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Corey Marc Fogel wrote: > > > > > there's a difference between playing Jewish music (or any music specific to > > > one's own heritage) with your heart and playing it with your brain. > > > > And that difference is...? > > think about it. Ah, yes, the standard response to the questioning of a baseless cliche. I have spent several years thinking about it. Your turn. - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice <gda@pingnet.li> Subject: oops - zorn content! Date: 10 Oct 1998 00:19:11 +0000 hi fellow zornsters! i found out from the swiss tzadik distributor that the release of jz's "music for children" cd has been postponed for europe. they didn't know when it is going to be available. the good news are, that the masada chamber ensemble will be performing in europe in march next year. something for all of us to look forward to, i guess... hope i didn't waste anyones valuable time. patRice - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Corey Marc Fogel <mecorey@imap3.asu.edu> Subject: re: Jewish? Date: 09 Oct 1998 15:35:15 -0700 (MST) On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Joseph S. Zitt wrote: > > > > there's a difference between playing Jewish music (or any music specific to > > > > one's own heritage) with your heart and playing it with your brain. > > > > > > And that difference is...? > > > > think about it. > > Ah, yes, the standard response to the questioning of a baseless cliche. standard response my ass. if youve spent years thinking about it, then you obviously know damn well what i'm talking about and i really should not have to explain it, but if i dont, then i'm "baseless". If something is part of one's heritage/cultural background, then the person is going to have a more spiritual assoctiation with that thing, for example Jewish music. but someone who learns about it from an outsider's standpoint, they can study it and know everything about it, sure. But...there's a difference. like me being a drummer and learning about drumming in Senegal and Brazil and Carnival and djembes and doumbecs, etc. I didnt grow up with those things, they have nothing to do with me other than the fact that I can access it through knowing how to play the drums. I can be really amazed by and really involved with music of other cultures, but its not going to be quite the same as someone from Senegal or Brazil. I just dont think it could ever mean as much to me that's sort of the bottom line right there. Being involved with Jewish music, however, is different, its something i've known all my life, hearing that music being played for celebratory purposes, like my own Bar Mitzvah, and many other people's, weddings, etc etc etc; or having to go to temple when i was younger, and having to sing certain melodies my entire life. For people who are more religious than myself, the content of prayers, etc are extremely important to them and have alot to do with their lifestyle, just like in any culture or religion. I'm not going to want to hear Hebrew prayers sung to the tune of Church hymns. i guess you could say there are exceptions. like someone who is a friend of a family who's cultural background differs greatly from their own, and they are constantly exposed to many elements of that culture. i'm sure it may sound irrational to some degree. and it probably sounds like i'm rambling. but...that's my opinion and this is the best way i can thikn to explain it. > I have spent several years thinking about it. Your turn. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice <gda@pingnet.li> Subject: Re: Jewish? Date: 10 Oct 1998 00:42:20 +0000 Peter Hollo wrote: > > Mark Feldman would be, David Krakauer I'm sure is, Anthony Coleman is for > sure; the name *can* indicate Jewishness but needn't - anyone know is > Marc Ribot? I'm interested in this one, I really don't know. And then all of the names you mentioned above are definitely jewish. i saw a german documentary (done back in 1997) a few weeks ago, which featured all of those guys. anthony coleman said something in one of the interviews, that i found highly amusing. it went something like this: "we try to make a very limited down version of jewish music. (...) some people will listen to it, hear its jewish origins, and like it because of that. some will dislike it because of that. other people will listen to it, wont spot the origins, and like it anyway. others will dislike it, even though they don't hear the jewish origin. which is okay..." after that he pauses for a few seconds, then just bursts out laughing. marc ribot said that he's aware of his being jewish, and that he takes from that culture all the things that appeal to him. "just as i take & use anything of no matter what cultural background that i feel i can relate to. but i couldn't care to act like a traditional jew, or what a traditional jew is supposed to act like." both of the above are rewritten from memory - hope i didn't memorize anything the opposite from what it was meant to say! patRice - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: Ayler Date: 09 Oct 1998 19:11:06 -0400 DR S WILKIE wrote: > > Charles Gillet doubts whether anyone who listens to Ayler hasn't got > Greenwich Village so doesn't bother recommending it. I'll have to > blow this one out: I listen to Ayler quite a lot, but perhaps it's > more accurate to say I listen to the Ayler/Peacock/Murray trio and > the quartet (with Don Cherry added). I have a little other Ayler > stuff: but - apart from Spirits Rejoice - this might only be because > there's also some stuff by the trio or quartet on the same disc > (Bells/Prophecy, and a live 1964+1966 disc). So I haven't leapt at > the Greenwich Village stuff, and need some bad-ass recommendation if > I'm going to do so ... > > awaiting the bad-ass reco > > Sean Wilkie I don't have the re-issue yet (I will soon), but I have the original Impulse vinyl of the Greenwich Village show and it's unbelievable! A marching band gone riot. It was the Ayler record which, for me, really invoked some serious connections with Charles Ives. I have no reason to believe that the extra material would not hold up to the mere 40 min. originally released. It's truly one of the greatest Ayler recordings ever made. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: Shelley Hirsch, Cecil Taylor Date: 09 Oct 1998 19:24:25 -0400 William York wrote: > > Here's my other question: I'm going to order one or two of the Cecil > Taylor CDs on FMP (all I can afford right now), and I'm think of > Looking/Feel Trio and The Tree of Life, but basically I'm looking for > something on the relatively softer side from this late period. > Specifically, if anyone has seen his video on Mystic Fire, the last song > w/ him, Parker, and Oxley (+ another percussionist) is the kind of thing > I'm looking for (in terms of small groups) and something like "After All" > from Silent Tongues in terms of solo piano. Thanks to anyone who can > point me in the write direction. I've only heard about half the FMP Taylor's but most are a very raucus and intense Cecil. The one that sticks out as very different to the rest is the duo with Derek Bailey, who really brings a whole other side to Cecil out. Much softer and more "Bailey oriented" in the sense of more abstract and less physical. I think it's an incredible disc (especially the "acoustic guitar" half). I've also been very fascinated by the disc he did for Leo called 'Chinampas' which is all solo poetry/percussion without any piano. I can HIGHLY recommend the Feel Trio discs! What an amazing group! Check out the 'Burning Poles' video. Also, his earlier Blue Note discs 'Unit Structures' and 'Conquistador' are essential. I actually prefer 'Conquistador' but I think it was only re-issued for a limited time and has since gone back out-of-print. If you find the original vinyl, pick it up. Does anyone have any comments on his recent quartet disc??? called Q'ua or something... -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Charles Gillett" <gill0042@tc.umn.edu> Subject: Re: Ayler Date: 09 Oct 1998 19:13:22 +0000 On Fri, 9 Oct 1998 10:45:08 GMT0BST, DR S WILKIE wrote: > Charles Gillet doubts whether anyone who listens to Ayler hasn't got > Greenwich Village so doesn't bother recommending it. I have to say that I don't really know what I meant when I said that. I wasn't being serious, but it wasn't a joke, either. On the one hand, Ayler evokes a certain fervor in people which causes them to buy his stuff whenever it becomes available; on the other hand, Ayler fans might tend to be on the money-free end of the spectrum and thus not able to drop the $25 at will. Hmm.... > So I haven't leapt at the Greenwich Village stuff, and need some > bad-ass recommendation if I'm going to do so ... I'm not sure if I can be bad-ass enough, since I caught the Ayler bug fairly recently. The thing that jumps out at me, before my brain has even started perceiving the music, is that I can actually hear all of the instruments--sound quality needn't be the first criterion for determining a good album, but it is nice to hear the bass players playing instead of hearing a vague rumble in the background. Truth be told, however, you can hardly hear the violin a fair amount of the time. Jeff Schwartz's Ayler book (http://ernie.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/ayler.html and other places) says more than I could about the music in Chapter Four than I can. There is a lot of heavy ornamentation of composed material, and many of Ayler's solos are of the high and frantic type. There's a little bit of everything as far as Ayler's pre-New Grass style is concerned, I think. I can't say anything more without exposing the fact that I bought seven of my eight Ayler CDs within the past two weeks...whoops! -- Charles Now Playing: Spirits Rejoice, from _Live in Greenwich Village_. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: APoesia794@aol.com Subject: zorn in the phoenix Date: 09 Oct 1998 20:23:13 EDT there is an article on jewish musicians/composers in the new boston phoenix for anyone in the boston area. zorn is included in this article. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: re: Jewish Date: 09 Oct 1998 20:47:07 -0400 (EDT) > > I agree. Anyway, Zorn's so-called Jewish music is > > as indebted to western and non-European traditions. > > only the western and non-European aspects, which more or less makes Masada > Changes of a Century (correct title?) By Ornette Coleman, when you strip > away the "so-called" Jewish aspects. I disagree, b/c the Masada stuff is more composed in many cases - some of the songs have ostinatos or chord changes (actually Ornette has a little bit of that on Change of the Century, like the 2 chord thing on "Ramblin'"). I don't think the combination of Jewish/non-Jewish is as seamless in Masada as Dave Douglas' Tiny Bell Trio, its easier to separate out the influences with Masada (for me at least). But the Masada thing seems more like a context where certain things stay the same (w/ the jazz quartet lineup and jewish melodies) and the other stuff changes, in the same way that Naked City's rock band line-up was a context. It seems like he likes to have certain things fixed as a challenge to see what he can do with the other stuff, if that makes any sense. WY - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: context (was Re: Jewish) Date: 09 Oct 1998 21:46:03 -0400 > I disagree, b/c the Masada stuff is more composed in many cases - > some of the songs have ostinatos or chord changes (actually Ornette has a > little bit of that on Change of the Century, like the 2 chord > thing on "Ramblin'"). I don't think the combination of Jewish/non-Jewish > is as seamless in Masada as Dave Douglas' Tiny Bell Trio, its easier to > separate out the influences with Masada (for me at least). But the Masada > thing seems more like a context where certain things stay the same (w/ the > jazz quartet lineup and jewish melodies) and the other stuff changes, in > the same way that Naked City's rock band line-up was a context. It seems > like he likes to have certain things fixed as a challenge to see what he > can do with the other stuff, if that makes any sense. > > WY You make sense, William. This whole thing with context is a major *problem* I've had with Zorn's music from the beginning. Often times, I feel all Zorn's compositional basis is just new context for established ideas (ie his influences). For instance Masada=Ornette Coleman 4tet + Jewish music or Spy Vs. Spy=hardcore+Ornette. If you like Masada's *playing* then wonderful, they have, for you, transcended being merely new context. The music of Naked City is really mostly context composition. "N.Y. Flat Top Box" is a perfect example. We've all heard country music and we've all heard thrash metal... But have we heard them together!! "Carny" as well mostly consists of quotes from artists ranging from Stockhausen to Fats Waller put together in the classic Carl Stalling block-structure and not much else. I find this sort of compositional approach to have only limited appeal. A lot of Zorn's free improv work includes this same concept, where Zorn will throw in some jazz lick in the middle of improvising with Derek Bailey... It's the same reason I found nothing groundbreaking about Jim O'Rourke's 'Happy Days' as I saw it as merely a coming-together of Fahey and Conrad and really nothing else. I can't wait to hear the responses... (!) -Tom Pratt P.S. - does anoyone else think Ornette's "Peace" from 'The Shape Of Jazz To Come" sounds like it could be a Masada tune? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Shelley Hirsch, Cecil Taylor Date: 09 Oct 1998 23:18:01 -0400 William York wrote: > I'm also wondering about where to find albums by Hirsch -maybe somethin= g > less conceptual than _States_ or _O Little TOwn of East New York, which > are entertaining but not things I would listen to frequently. If you can find "Haiku Lingo" by Hirsch and Weinstein, that's a fine one,= but it took me years to track down. Shelley's got some good stretches of imp= rov and glossolalia on Jim Staley's "Mumbo Jumbo" (which also features Zorn, Frisell, Horvitz ands others in free improv trio settings) and on two FMP collaborations, "X-Communication" (a large ensemble with the Koch / Suder= / Schutz trio, Butch Morris, Jason Hwang and perhaps others I'm forgetting)= and an album by the September Band (Hirsch, Hans Reichel, R=FCdiger Carl and = Paul Lovens). "O Little Town of East New York" is one of my favorite records, Tzadik or otherwise. > Here's my other question: I'm going to order one or two of the Cecil > Taylor CDs on FMP (all I can afford right now), and I'm think of > Looking/Feel Trio and The Tree of Life, but basically I'm looking for > something on the relatively softer side from this late period. "Looking" by the Feel Trio is a fine one. For "softer" late period stuff= - there's no such record from beginning to end but all of his recent record= s show a bit of it - either "The Tree of Life," "Double Holy House" or "Loo= king" (solo version) would be good, and perhaps by getting the solo "Looking" y= ou'd have, in effect, two very different views of the same concept. "Double H= oly House" is the only one I haven't heard and it includes overdubbed voice a= nd percussion at certain points. > P.S. I have Silent Tongues, 3 Phasis, Nefertiti, and For Olim already s= o > if there are any other big ones I'm missing let me know. I'm on a limi= ted > budget unfortunately. As Tom Pratt mentioned, "Unit Structures" is essential, and "Conquistador= " is also extraordinary. "One Too Many Salty Swift and Not Goodbye" is exhilarating and exhausting, but it's an expensive double set and you do already have that band covered with "3 Phasis." "Always a Pleasure" on F= MP with Longineau Parsons, Harri Sj=F6str=F6m, Charles Gayle, Tristan Honsin= ger and Sirone is one of the more exceptional CT band albums of the later years. And the new "Qu'a" marks the point at which CT's current band finally arr= ives after a year of struggling to find their way. CT is monstrous but also s= hows an increasingly romanticism I find very appealing. Dominic Duval sounds better here than anywhere else I've heard him, Jackson Krall is starting = to really mesh with CT, and soprano saxophonist Harri Sj=F6str=F6m, a source= of irritation for some of my friends, is actually pretty terrific here in my opinion... like an angry hornet buzzing in a hurricane. I think it's a fabulous record and I'm looking forward to Volume 2. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SRus721639@aol.com Subject: Re: context (was Re: Jewish) Date: 10 Oct 1998 04:50:11 EDT i have to confess that, while I love Zorn's work acros the board, Tom's points have occured to me a well. Particularly in the case of Carny and some of Naked City. "N.Y. Flat Top Box" is a perfect example. We've all heard country music and we've all heard thrash metal... But have we heard them together!! "Carny" as well mostly consists of quotes from artists ranging from Stockhausen to Fats Waller put together in the classic Carl Stalling block-structure and not much else. I find this sort of compositional approach to have only limited appeal. There was a British impressionist by the name of Mike Yarwood who, after his monologues in dozens of different characters would announce "and this is me" at the end of the show just before the 'big song' finish. I have to admit I have often wondered if Zorn shouldn't do the same thing... It's the same reason I found nothing groundbreaking about Jim O'Rourke's 'Happy Days' as I saw it as merely a coming-together of Fahey and Conrad and really nothing else. I agree with you here too. I think I've only listened to this once since I bought it! Scott Russell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: context (was Re: Jewish) Date: 10 Oct 1998 21:16:10 +1000 > For instance Masada=Ornette Coleman 4tet + Jewish music or Spy Vs. > Spy=hardcore+Ornette. If you like Masada's *playing* then wonderful, > they have, for you, transcended being merely new context. The music of > Naked City is really mostly context composition. "N.Y. Flat Top Box" is > a perfect example. We've all heard country music and we've all heard > thrash metal... But have we heard them together!! I agree, but I do like Naked City's actual playing too... How could you not with that lineup? > P.S. - does anoyone else think Ornette's "Peace" from 'The Shape Of Jazz > To Come" sounds like it could be a Masada tune? Hmm... really? It doesn't really have that Jewishness that Masada tunes have. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jabu3@rocketmail.com Subject: Re: Glenn Spearman Date: 10 Oct 1998 06:24:35 -0500 This is really sad news A.B. This message was forwarded to you from Deja News by jabu3@rocketmail.com. Deja News, the discussion network, offers free web-based access to more than 50,000 high-quality discussion forums. Come and visit us on the web at http://www.dejanews.com/=zzz_maf/ Audio Book Club Join and get 4 bestselling audiobooks 1c http://www.audiobookclub.com/micro/home.asp?AID=S036L004B009 (beginning of original message) Newsgroups: rec.music.bluenote Glenn died at his home on Thursday morning at 6am of stomach cancer. He was 51. Unbelievably, I still haven't found an obit anywhere. Bill Hery wrote: > I just heard an announcer on WKCR in NY (best jazz station in the > world!) mention that Glenn Spearmann had died this week. Does anyone > know any more about this? > > Bill Hery > Bell Labs, Whippany NJ > email to: my surname at bell-labs.com (end of original message) You can view this message and the related discussion by following this link: http://www.dejanews.com/=zzz_maf/dnquery.xp?search=thread&svcclass=dnserver&recnum=%3c361E3DBA.AAB586B1@wlrn.org%3e%231/1 We hope to see you soon at Deja News, the discussion network. http://www.dejanews.com/=zzz_maf/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: context (was Re: Jewish) Date: 10 Oct 1998 08:09:51 -0400 Julian wrote: > > > P.S. - does anoyone else think Ornette's "Peace" from 'The Shape Of Jazz > > To Come" sounds like it could be a Masada tune? > > Hmm... really? It doesn't really have that Jewishness that Masada tunes > have. Oh, there's a little Jewish tinge in that piece for sure... -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dennis summers <denniss@ic.net> Subject: context (was Re: Jewish) Date: 10 Oct 1998 08:30:54 -0600 A couple of quick things. Regarding the long list of Jewish musicians, I really had no idea, and I'm wondering other than the obvious klezmer thing (which I think we've talked to death), is there a larger issue here. I know that the Knitting Factory guy is jewish, and so this whole "Downtown" jazz thing seems to be permeated by this jewishness. So the question is, what are the larger aesthetic issues that can be asked about the downtown style, and what it's roots are? I'm not sure I have the answer, so I'll leave it up to you more thoughtful types. Speaking of that style and Zorn's context issue in particular what Pratt doesn't like about Zorn is precisely why I like him so much. As a visual artist who does more or less what Zorn does, I believe that the whole "postmodern" question is one of context. I think that collaging elements together does more to ask questions about "our" culture, than any "unified" work does, and that these are the questions that need to be asked at this point in history. yours in zornocity --ds ***Quantum Dance Works*** ****http://ic.net/~denniss**** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: context (was Re: Jewish) Date: 10 Oct 1998 10:49:56 -0400 > Speaking of that style and Zorn's context issue in particular what Pratt > doesn't like about Zorn is precisely why I like him so much. As a visual > artist who does more or less what Zorn does, I believe that the whole > "postmodern" question is one of context. I think that collaging elements > together does more to ask questions about "our" culture, than any "unified" > work does, and that these are the questions that need to be asked at this > point in history. Now I'm no expert on post-modernism but what questions are these? I'm all for bringing elements together but it needs to transcend being merely an awkward heterogeneous collage of innovations from the past. I'm all for looking at the music of Ornette Coleman and identifying its intensity with that of hardcore. Sure, it's an astute observation but I find nothing innovative about actually merging the two. I think Sun Ra and George Clinton have a lot in common but I'm not interested in hearing a funked-out version of "The Magic City". I find a lot in common between Albert Ayler and Charles Ives but I'm not interested in hearing Albert and Don leading separate bands at the same time marching towards each other. I find context composition a cop-out to true innovation and I find this often to be the case with Zorn. I'll use another example that relates to this same issue on a different level. On Peter Brotzmann's 'Wels Concert' disc with Hamid Drake and Mahmoud Gania, there are many points where I felt the clash of cultures and styles was truly awkward, forced and out-of-context. But conversely there were some wonderful moments were they destroyed this awkwardness and the cultural juxtaposition and really made something *work* that was quite special. Are you interested in the awkward sections as well as some sort of post-modernistic question raiser? -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Benton <rancor@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu> Subject: re: Jewish Date: 10 Oct 1998 10:33:44 -0500 (CDT) > >If something is part of one's heritage/cultural background, then the >person is going to have a more spiritual assoctiation with that thing, >for example Jewish music. but someone who learns about it from an >outsider's standpoint, they can study it and know everything about it, >sure. But...there's a difference. > Ok, fine; but let me present you this example: Frank London, the leader of the Klezmatics, is Jewish. He was at the New England Conservatory of Music when he first heard any kind of Jewish music, in this case it was klezmer. He went through a very academic process of learning it, the same way he had learned to play Carribean music or Balkan music or whatever. Thus the not-too-shabby Klezmer Conservatory Band was born. On the other hand take Matt Darriau, leader of the Paradox Trio and reed player for the Klezmatics. He isn't Jewish, but he's been listening to Jewish music all of his life. His dad played it around the house when he was a kid and things just went from there. And I think anybody who's heard him play would be hard pressed to argue that he's not a total monster. So who's the outsider here? I certainly might concede to your point that sitting down and learning the scales and modes and so on could yield different results from really having that music deep down in your gut, but I don't think your heritage argument has any kind of particularly firm hold on the latter option. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Jewish? Date: 10 Oct 1998 11:33:17 -0400 Corey Marc Fogel wrote: > I can be really amazed by and really involved with > music of other cultures, but its not going to be quite the same as someone > from Senegal or Brazil. I just dont think it could ever mean as much to me > that's sort of the bottom line right there. Interesting points... but from the player's perspective, not the listeners. Is there something that comes through differently in the sound that depends on whether the player is from that background? I've been involved with Jewish music all my life (trained for a while to become a cantor, etc), but there are some areas that I still don't do all that well. If you were to blindfold test someone on recordings of my doing klezmer then Don Byron doing it, I suspect that the listener would consistently pick out Byron as Jewish. There's also the problem that "Jewish music" is an area that gets harder to find the more you try to locate it. I did some research in college of analysing a cross-section of Jewish music. Not only did there not turn out to be anything consistently in common, there weren't even any hardcore dichotomies that were statistically interesting. It came off just like a random cross section of any other music. (PS: When one writes a message like the one to which I'm responding, rather than a snide and insulting "Think about it", it improves the flow of conversation on the list.) -- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Cecil Taylor Date: 10 Oct 1998 16:47:43 -0400 (EDT) Qu'a (Cadence Jazz) is not only a fine example of Taylor playing with a group, but doubly valuable because it's less than a year old. Dominic Duval is a great bass player in any circumstances and definitely someone in the lineage of former Taylorites like William Parker and Sirone and Henry Grimes. BTW my comments are based on Vol. 1. There's apparently a Vol. 2 about to come out. The only thing I wonder about is how the regular patrons of Iridium, usually a modern-mainstream club, reacted to Mr. T? Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Glenn Spearman Date: 10 Oct 1998 17:08:45 -0400 (EDT) I got an E-mail telling me that Spearman had died of cancer a couple of days ago. He was only diagnosed in August, so luckily (I guess) he didn't suffer for long. I saw Spearman four times: once in San Francisco with the double trio, once in NYC with Trio Hurricane, once in Victoriaville with Rova 8 and once here in Toronto in duet with drummer/painter John Heward. Each time he was a knock-out with strong ideas and a never-say-die attitude (sic). Any interested in fine tenor playing should (at the very least) pick up: The Fields (Black Saint) with the Double Trio --Larry Ochs (of Rova) on ts and ss, Spearman (ts); Chris Brown (p); Lisle Ellis (b); and Donald Robinson and William Winant (d) Let It Go (red Toucan) with a quartet (Lisle Ellis [b], Donald Robinson [d] and James Routhier [gtr]) Raphe Malik's The Short Form (Eremite), also feature Malik (tmpt); Dennis warren (b) and Larry Roland (d) Trio Hurricane (Eremite) with William Perker (b) and Paul Murphy (d) and Lisle Ellis Elevations (Victo) -with Routhier, Ellis, Spearman, Ochs, Robinson, Joe McPhee (ss, ts) and Chris Cauley (as) Spearman was another of those saxophonists who fought the good fight for avant garde music when it wasn't fashionable and didn't get 1/10th the recognition or 1/100th the remuneration he should have. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Tait <tait@pdq.net> Subject: Re: Jewish? Date: 10 Oct 1998 17:10:34 -0700 I have questioned what was being implied by Corey's responce before and personally came to the conclusion that while art, music etc. often arises out of a specific cultural/ethnic context I don't think that at it's core it is that exclusive, I tend to think it's more universal, as in the human experience being echoed in endless different configurations, therefore accessible to all people. It seems to me, that whatever can being said by any culture about it's specific experiences has its equivalent in most others....experiencing love, suffering, enlightenment etc. is what defines us as human, and seems to me to be what creates the passion to make music and art. That being said I tend to take the position that someone who isn't Jewish can have an equal spiritual association with Jewish music as a Jew, as well as reflect upon that by writing klezmer compositions, or whatever. I mean when I listen to Masada, and Circle Maker specifically, I truly believe I embrace it in its totality and am immersed in the music to the point to where I think I can honestly say it is spiritual for me; and my heritage is a Catholic from Ireland! I don't see too many parellels in terms of style with Celtic Folk on Circle Maker. <-- can't wait to see the responce discrediting that statement thoughts? feedack? Joe > > > standard response my ass. if youve spent years thinking about it, then you > obviously know damn well what i'm talking about and i really should not have > to explain it, but if i dont, then i'm "baseless". If something is part of > one's heritage/cultural background, then the person is going to have a more > spiritual assoctiation with that thing, for example Jewish music. but > someone who learns about it from an outsider's standpoint, they can study it > and know everything about it, sure. But...there's a difference. like me being > a drummer and learning about drumming in Senegal and Brazil and Carnival and > djembes and doumbecs, etc. I didnt grow up with those things, they have > nothing to do with me other than the fact that I can access it through knowing > how to play the drums. I can be really amazed by and really involved with > music of other cultures, but its not going to be quite the same as someone > from Senegal or Brazil. I just dont think it could ever mean as much to me > that's sort of the bottom line right there. > Being involved with Jewish music, however, is different, its something i've > known all my life, hearing that music being played for celebratory purposes, > like my own Bar Mitzvah, and many other people's, weddings, etc etc etc; > or having to go to temple when i was younger, and having to sing certain > melodies my entire life. For people who are more religious than myself, the > content of prayers, etc are extremely important to them and have alot to do > with their lifestyle, just like in any culture or religion. I'm not > going to want to hear Hebrew prayers sung to the tune of Church hymns. > > i guess you could say there are exceptions. like someone who is a friend of a > family who's cultural background differs greatly from their own, and they are > constantly exposed to many elements of that culture. > > i'm sure it may sound irrational to some degree. and it probably sounds like > i'm rambling. but...that's my opinion and this is the best way i can thikn > to explain it. > > > I have spent several years thinking about it. Your turn. > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Tait <tait@pdq.net> Subject: Marc Ribot Interview Date: 10 Oct 1998 17:29:05 -0700 Could whoever originally posted the link to the interview please re-post it, I accidentily deleted the e-mail before I got a chance to bookmark the link. Thanks, Joe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Jewish? Date: 11 Oct 1998 10:28:37 +1000 > I've been involved with Jewish music all my life (trained for a > while to become a cantor, etc), but there are some areas that I still > don't do all that well. If you were to blindfold test someone on > recordings of my doing klezmer then Don Byron doing it, I suspect > that the listener would consistently pick out Byron as Jewish. Ah, but this is a very unbalanced example. Don Byron has obviously practised long and hard to get to the stage he is at (in all styles that is, not just klezmer). For a slightly more even example... I've been playing guitar in a band that plays a bit of klezmer here and there and I'm not Jewish. My experience in klezmer style had only really come from Masada, Bar Kokhba, and a bit of Ben Goldberg and David Krakauer. The violinist on the other hand is Jewish. He has been playing music for about the same time as me, but while I have been surrounding myself with jazz, rock and experimental music, he has listened more to Jewish and gypsy music. So, when we solo back to back, you really can hear a difference. I am not so very interested in making myself sound like a "real" Jewish musician, so my solos retain some of the jazz/experimental quality along with the klezmer, but the violinist sounds very Jewish when he plays (and interestingly, we are both playing pretty much by ear). I guess this is slightly different, because Don Byron certainly made an effort to play klezmer style, whereas I have simply added my whole musical background to my "klezmer" playing. Nonetheless, I think it's a pretty interesting example. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: context (was Re: Jewish) Date: 11 Oct 1998 10:55:06 +1000 > I'm all for bringing elements together but it needs to transcend being > merely an awkward heterogeneous collage of innovations from the past. > I'm all for looking at the music of Ornette Coleman and identifying its > intensity with that of hardcore. Sure, it's an astute observation but I > find nothing innovative about actually merging the two. I think Sun Ra > and George Clinton have a lot in common but I'm not interested in > hearing a funked-out version of "The Magic City". I find a lot in common > between Albert Ayler and Charles Ives but I'm not interested in hearing > Albert and Don leading separate bands at the same time marching towards > each other. I find context composition a cop-out to true innovation and > I find this often to be the case with Zorn. If we're looking at Naked City, it would be unfair to pick out this context thing and suggest it is his sole mileage for the whole project. Outside of the Torture Garden stuff, I see only a few tracks that really use the context thing as a compositional device. The only one that comes to mind at the moment is "Krazy Kat". But anyway, tracks like "Krazy Kat", "Speedfreaks" and "The Prestidigitator" have (in my opinion) pretty low levels of composition going on there. I would say that the main reason I listen to these tracks is just how well the musicians pull them off. But Zorn as a composer for Naked City proves himself (again, my opinion) time and time again, some of the standout tracks for me being "Asylum", "Triggerfingers", "Saigon Pickup" and "Terkmani Teepee". And his arrangement skills are great on (for example) "Contempt", "The Sicilian Clan" and most of the classical stuff. What I'm trying to say is, there's so much more going on in Naked City than you seem to give credit for. And apart from what I've mentioned above, there's always their three slightly more "out-there" discs which basically defy classification. I know you were talking more about Zorn than just Naked City, but you mentioned them as an example, and I am more familiar with them than most of his other stuff, so I just thought I'd give my bit... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sulacco@aol.com Subject: Re: context Date: 11 Oct 1998 00:09:29 EDT In a message dated 10/10/98 21:10:07, you wrote: >But anyway, tracks like "Krazy Kat", > >"Speedfreaks" and "The Prestidigitator" have (in my opinion) pretty low > >levels of composition going on there. with no disrespect intended, i have to disagree with this. once i got the lead sheets to some of the "ten second tunes" and followed along, i became aware of more that was going on than i thought. there are an awful lot of things going on in those tunes in addition to the fantastic musicianship. besides, speedfreaks is one of my favorite naked city tunes, so i kinda felt obligated to "stick up for it." :) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sulacco@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: context (was Re: Jewish) Date: 11 Oct 1998 00:11:41 EDT In a message dated 10/10/98 8:33:39, you wrote: > >> > P.S. - does anoyone else think Ornette's "Peace" from 'The Shape Of Jazz >> > To Come" sounds like it could be a Masada tune? >> >> Hmm... really? It doesn't really have that Jewishness that Masada tunes >> have. > >Oh, there's a little Jewish tinge in that piece for sure... ok. i just whipped out the ornette box and listened to this tune. i didn't hear anything as "jewish" per se. zorn's ornette roots become even more apparent, but i did not get a sense of ornette's "jewishness." $0.02 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: context Date: 11 Oct 1998 01:14:55 -0400 (EDT) Tom Pratt wrote: This whole thing with context is a major > *problem* I've had with Zorn's music from the beginning. Often times, I > feel all Zorn's compositional basis is just new context for established > ideas (ie his influences). This would be true for a lot of people: Miles Davis and Ornette Coleman for example, they continually changed the settings they played in but the things that made them THEM were or are there, for better or worse. >For instance Masada=Ornette Coleman 4tet + Jewish music I think this has more to do with instrumentation though, and the fact that Zorn's playing has been influenced greatly by Ornette's. If he had a big tenor sax sound this comparison might be different. Douglas isn't much at all like Don Cherry, plus a lot of the melodies (like the ones in the odd meters which are more like Bacharach or something) are phrased differently than Ornette writes. When you listen to the Bar Kokhba stuff, the Ornette comparisons don't really come to mind. But in a way I agree, the individual elements are fairly easy to separate out. Still, they've done some great stuff - and there are lots bigger Masada fans than me who would support this opinion. As for Spy vs. Spy, I think while it is, as you say, "hardcore + Ornette", there are a lot of connections that make this a logical and pretty natural combination. Maybe not so much Ornette, but definately a lot of jazz from the 60s (most especially _Machine Gun_) strikes me in the same way as some really noisy rock stuff. I love Spy vs. Spy just because its so loud and abrasive, just like Machine Gun is or some of the "no wave" stuff from the late 70s or the new stuff on Skin Graft is, like the Flying Luttenbachers or Melt Banana. Or Last Exit. Its just a good rackety noise. I also agree with what you were saying about "Carny" or some of the Naked City stuff. Maybe its appeal is limited, but its still fun to listen to at times. But, after its been done, its been done. I've heard some other juxtaposing things done similarly that don't have the same edge to them. He seems to have moved on from this style of writing though recently. But this isn't really what I was referring to in terms of context. What you are saying reminds me of the quote on the J.Z. radio hour, where the Rahsaan Roland Kirk song finishes and he says, "So what kind of music was that??". I remember thinking the same thing about this song before (can't remember the title, sorry). But in terms of coming up with something that really makes you say, "What is this?", you're right, it doesn't always happen with Zorn. But, I think there are plenty of examples - the stuff on Locus Solus w/ Peter Blegvad and Christian Marclay, a lot of the Big Gundown, some of the soundtrack stuff. but these types of moments are rare. Maybe he tries too hard. Do you notice how he's always talking about "unique sound worlds"? Its really hard to achieve this, and in some ways ties into the thread about authenticity in playing Jewish music or any sort of ethnic music or really any sort of style. You have to know it inside and out and just lived with it in order for it sound like you're not just throwing something in there (this is why so much fusion from the 70s sucks, and now there are groups like Human Feel or something which are jazz-freejazz-rock-whatever and it just sounds so much more natural, just from growing up with the stuff). So I've gotten off on a tangent and thrown in some shameless cliches, but I guess what I'm saying is I think people and musicians are a product of their environment as much as anything else and its not something you can really hide, or should try too. Hopefully not too vague or TOO long, WY p.s. I just got Napalm Death "From Enslavement to Obliteration". This rules. dghdghdghdhgdhghgdghgdhgdghgdghgdghghgdghdhdhd - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Dikeman" <shangohammy@hotmail.com> Subject: Anyone got a clue what happened to the movie, New York Eye and Ear Control? Date: 11 Oct 1998 10:42:45 PDT I just got the soundtrack to this movie by Michael Snowdon, with Albert Ayler, Don Cherry, and John Tchiani(sp?) on it. It's really great, but, what I was woundering, what ever happened to the movie. Has anyone ever seen it? Is there anyplace you could order it from. I'd give an arm and a leg to see how this music was interprited. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Anyone got a clue what happened to the movie, New York Eye and Ear Control? Date: 11 Oct 1998 14:03:54 -0400 (EDT) The film was screened at the Guelph Jazz Festival at the end of September. The most important thing to note is that the film is by Canadian painter Michael *Snow*, who continues to perform as an improvising pianist with the CCMC. I'm not sure if the work is commercially available, but if you query the Music Gallery in Toronto (where the CCMC performs once a week) and/or the Art Gallery of Ontario in Toronto, both of which have Web pages, I'm sure someone could lead you on to Snow and/or a distributor. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Sun, 11 Oct 1998, John Dikeman wrote: > I just got the soundtrack to this movie by Michael Snowdon, with Albert > Ayler, Don Cherry, and John Tchiani(sp?) on it. It's really great, but, > what I was woundering, what ever happened to the movie. Has anyone ever > seen it? Is there anyplace you could order it from. I'd give an arm > and a leg to see how this music was interprited. > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: context Date: 11 Oct 1998 14:57:40 -0400 William York wrote: > > Tom Pratt wrote: This whole thing with context is a major > > *problem* I've had with Zorn's music from the beginning. Often times, I > > feel all Zorn's compositional basis is just new context for established > > ideas (ie his influences). > > This would be true for a lot of people: Miles Davis and Ornette Coleman > for example, they continually changed the settings they played in but > the things that made them THEM were or are there, for better or worse. Yes, but the difference as I see it is that Ornette and Miles brought new context to established concepts by applying them to unique concepts of their OWN. Whereas with Zorn, I often find, he brings established concepts together with OTHER established concepts and NOT much of his own. > >For instance Masada=Ornette Coleman 4tet + Jewish music > > I think this has more to do with instrumentation though Yes, exactly! A *consciously* borrowed instrumentation from Ornette's quartet applied to Jewish music. I was not inferring anything more than that. > As for Spy vs. Spy, I think while it is, as you say, "hardcore + Ornette", > there are a lot of connections that make this a logical and pretty natural > combination. It's absolutely a logical combination! However, Spy Vs. Spy comes off, to me, as being very gimmicky and forced - more of a novelty item than anything else. Brotzmann's Machine Gun on the other hand is very natural and pure abrasive music. Painkiller comes off this way too which is why, for me, it's one of the more important Zorn projects (though I generally don't care much for Laswell). -Tom "waiting to be exiled from this list" Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Bramy <tbramy@oz.net> Subject: to: Seattlites re: Mount Analog Date: 11 Oct 1998 13:43:49 -0700 (PDT) Did any of my Seattle brothers out there record the Mount Analog set last weekend? It was on the Sonarchy Radio Hour on KCMU. I was unable to hear it or tape it. Can somebody hook me up? Todd - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Re: context Date: 11 Oct 1998 18:24:32 -0400 (EDT) Tom Pratt wrote: > Yes, but the difference as I see it is that Ornette and > Miles brought > new context to established concepts by applying them to unique concepts > of their OWN. Whereas with Zorn, I often find, he brings established > concepts together with OTHER established concepts and NOT much of his > own. So maybe its not as true of the more linear stuff like Spy vs. Spy or Masada, but I think there is a definate connection, as far as his approach and staying consistent with his own ideas, between the game pieces, the Kurt Weill arrangement, Spillane, Locus Solus, Classic Guide to Strategy, much of the Naked City stuff (Speedfreaks, NY Flat Top Box, Saigon Pickup), some of the arrangements for the Big Gundown, Carny, and others. They all have in common the sound block form, as in the quick changes from one section to another. Sometimes it is done with genre-switching but not always. But, with a lot of recent stuff he seems to have stopped writing in this way. > > > As for Spy vs. Spy, I think while it is, as you say, "hardcore + Ornette", > > there are a lot of connections that make this a logical and pretty natural > > combination. > > It's absolutely a logical combination! However, Spy Vs. Spy comes off, > to me, as being very gimmicky and forced - more of a novelty item than > anything else. So this is just a difference of opinion, I guess. But I remember reading something about how the Ornette project developed over a period beginning in '84 or something, when they would just play Ornette songs for the fun of it, so they wouldn't have to worry about "some neurotic bebopper saying we weren't running the changes properly" (some quote like that). And then over the years it became what ended up on the record. This same idea is what made me give Derek Bailey another chance,. I first found his approach to be very arbitrary and unconnected from 'reality'. Then when i was reading his book he outlined the changes that took place gradually during the 60s that led to his playing in such a way. Not that reading and understanding where someone is coming from, on paper, makes it sound any different, but it made me listen to it in a more openminded way. But there are plenty of other gimmicky things in music - think about Ives simulating two marching bands passing each other. It's not much different than the comparisons people have made about Zorn's stuff sounding like flipping through a radio dial. Maybe both of these approaches are gimmicky as far as imposing foreign, non traditionally musical forms onto music, but I guess the more you like how it sounds, the less gimmicky it seems. These approaches have their dead ends as much as verse chorus verse songwriting, free improv, or 12 bar blues do. Thatt's my beat guess as to why he started writing melodies and doing all the Masada stuff. Of course there are plenty of holes in my arguments and I may actually have no idea what I'm talking about. ?? WY - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Orangejazz@aol.com Subject: Another Zorn album... Date: 11 Oct 1998 19:09:21 EDT On October 20th there is apparently a Zorn Album called Music For Romance, Volume 1. Is there a cheesy guy with the same name releasing albums or is this actually John? :) any information would be appreciated. it's not a filmworks release.. from, matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Landon Thorpe" <landocal@mail.utexas.edu> Subject: O'Rourke/Null Date: 11 Oct 1998 19:38:15 -0500 > Date: Thu, 8 Oct 1998 23:41:50 +0000 > From: "Charles Gillett" <gill0042@tc.umn.edu> > Subject: Re: guitar albums and things > > On Wed, 7 Oct 1998 08:05:13 -0500, "Landon Thorpe" wrote: > > Here are a few good ones: [...] > > Jim O'Rourke/K.K. Null--New Kind of Water (np, btw; should be called New > > Kind of Noisy) > > Can you tell me more about this album? I haven't been able to > find a track list or any information on it; is there any indication > why it's named after a This Heat song? > Sorry about the delayed response. I get the digest, plus I've been away this weekend. Info on Null/O'Rourke (from the CD leaflet): ---------- K.K Null & Jim O'Rourke _New Kind of Water_ Charnel House: CHCD 6 Charnel House Productions, P.O. Box 170277, San Francisco, CA 94117-0277 USA 01. Abyss 02. Gibakaze 03. Live at lounge axe pt 1 04. Septic moon 05. Neuro geometry 06. Live at lounge axe pt 2 07. Operation DNA All titles composed and improvised by Kazuyuki K. Null and Jim O'Rourke Recorded on January-February 1991 and June 1992 Tracks 3. and 6. were recorded live at LOUNGE AXE, Chicago, August 8th, 1992 All tracks are guitar duets ---------- Could someone more enlightened about This Heat give us an idea about the significance of the title? I know they've been discussed here before. > > On other recent subjects: > > Speaking of the Sub Rosa Duo series, anyone have any comments on the > > Frere-Jones/Mazzacane Connors disc? > > I've seen it around, but haven't gotten it. What is the point of > this series, anyway? The split-LP format isn't very appealing. I've had good luck with the Justin K. Broadrick/Andy Hawkins album and the Caspar Brotzmann/Page Hamilton album, which is a collaboration, actually. Anyone know what Brotzmann the younger has been up to lately? Been kind of quiet. Speaking of quiet, more quiet improv--Gunter Muller/Jim O'Rourke _Weighting_ on For Four Ears is a very subtle and beautiful album. Instrumentation includes piano, organ, lap steel, percussion, and electronics. Anyone else heard this one? Enjoying the respite from the heat, Landon Thorpe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org> Subject: Re: Recent Goddies + female voices Date: 11 Oct 1998 20:53:10 -0400 At 10:20 PM +0100 10/8/98, Felix wrote: >And now for my question. I'm looking for some female vocalists, and am >particularly interested in Shelley Hirsh and Diamanda Galas (of which i >don't know anything except 'Metamorfosi' from The Big Gundown). Any >reccomendations would be really appreciated. If you like Shelley Hirsh, then you should check out some other 'classical' works by Ligeti ("Aventures" and "Nouvelles Aventures", among others) Berio ("Sequenza III" and "Circles"), and of course John Cage. Also, don't miss recordings by Joan La Barbara and Cathy Berberian. On that note, I've often wondered if Zorn has ever entertained a 'classical' comission for a work for solo (baritone) voice. Anyone ever heard of such a thing? | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | | | | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | | | | UMD school of music | | | | m-e-t-a-t-r-o-n p-r-e-s-s | | | http://www.artswire.org/comma | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Rath <fripp@ibm.net> Subject: Sub Rosa Subsonic Series Date: 11 Oct 1998 20:18:54 -0500 > > On other recent subjects: > > Speaking of the Sub Rosa Duo series, anyone have any comments on the > > Frere-Jones/Mazzacane Connors disc? > > I've seen it around, but haven't gotten it. What is the point of > this series, anyway? The split-LP format isn't very appealing. The Frere-Jones/Connors CD is quite good. If you like Connors style, the Frere-Jones stuff (while being somewhat different) compliments it well. I've been happy with the whole series, and can't wait for more. As to what the point of the series is, I would imagine it is an attempt to expose people to new things they wouldn't ordinarily get. By pairing Frere-Jones with Connors, fans of Connors might find something new to like as well. For me it hasn't been difficult thus far, as I've liked almost everyone they've had in the series before buying the discs. Matter of taste, I guess. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Rath <fripp@ibm.net> Date: 11 Oct 1998 20:29:15 -0500 >Speaking of quiet, more quiet improv--Gunter Muller/Jim O'Rourke _Weighting_ >on For Four Ears is a very subtle and beautiful album. Instrumentation >includes piano, organ, lap steel, percussion, and electronics. Anyone else >heard this one? Very good disc. If you like that one, also try Slow Motion (also Muller/O'Rourke) which is along the same lines, and Table Chair and Hatstand (Muller/O'Rourke/Voice Crack) which adds some more noise and electronics - All on For Four Ears. Also on that label - Gunter Muller and Christian Marclay - Live Improvisations. As you might imagine, somewhat noisier than the previous three Muller albums mentioned. Interesting, though. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson <wlt4@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Anyone got a clue what happened to the movie Date: 11 Oct 1998 23:47:41 -0400 It was shown at the (Re)Soundings Festival in Atlanta last July, though it was rescheduled at the last moment so I wasn't able to see it. As far as I know, none of Snow's films are available on video. LT At 10:42 AM 10/11/98 PDT, you wrote: >I just got the soundtrack to this movie by Michael Snowdon, with Albert >Ayler, Don Cherry, and John Tchiani(sp?) on it. It's really great, but, >what I was woundering, what ever happened to the movie. Has anyone ever Lang Thompson http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4 New at the Funhouse website: Did Elvis Steal Rock 'n' Roll?, The X-Files Movie Bites!, music reviews - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glenn_Lea@avid.com Subject: Phoenix article Date: 12 Oct 1998 07:42:24 -0400 The Boston Phoenix Zorn et al article is online at: http://www.bostonphoenix.com/archive/music/98/10/08/JEWS.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Anne & Dan Dellosso <adosso@desupernet.net> Subject: [Fwd: Another Zorn album...] Date: 12 Oct 1998 09:30:19 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5C264127492E85063293605D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------5C264127492E85063293605D Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline Message-ID: <36222D42.876D529A@desupernet.net> Reply-To: adosso@desupernet.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3c5f05f0.36213aa1@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Orangejazz@aol.com wrote: > On October 20th there is apparently a Zorn Album called Music For Romance, > Volume 1. Is there a cheesy guy with the same name releasing albums or is this > actually John? :) any information would be appreciated. it's not a filmworks > release.. > > from, > matt > > -it is John, the disc is called music for romance- music for children vol.one. > its a comp. that features three or so unrecorded naked city songs, John recorded > with a Boston band also a couple of chamber type pieces, i was talking to a guy > who works at a record store that got the promo and he said the cover is > horrific, a nude young girl thats body is disfigured or something like that (i > did not actually see the cover just going by what he said). Mabey thats why the > cd's release date is pushed back in europe. dan --------------5C264127492E85063293605D-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FJG_Lamerikx <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> Subject: Re: Another Zorn album... Date: 12 Oct 1998 15:55:13 +0200 (MET DST) Dan wrote: > > i was talking to a guy > > who works at a record store that got the promo and he said the cover is > > horrific, a nude young girl thats body is disfigured or something like that > > (i did not actually see the cover just going by what he said). Mabey > > thats why the cd's release date is pushed back in europe. I don't think so. It would certainly constitute a good reason to push back the release date in the USA, but NOT in Europe. To illustrate this opinion, MTV no longer shows the version of the (brilliant) new Cardigans video where singer Nina Persson crashes everything she finds in her way during a car-ride, and in the end crashes herself against a mini-van. The video very graphically shows Nina being launched out of the car and bouncing off the top of the van, onto the road. She proceeds to display a thin line of blood oozing from the corner of her mouth, and is eventually knocked out or killed by the stone that she placed on the gas pedal to be able to stand upright while driving. Contrary to MTV, however, the Dutch equivalent TMF is showing the video full-blown, any time of day. This quite illustrates the difference between the US and Europe as far as these things are concerned. Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Anne & Dan Dellosso <adosso@desupernet.net> Subject: Re: Another Zorn album... Date: 12 Oct 1998 10:08:39 -0700 FJG_Lamerikx wrote: > Dan wrote: > > > > i was talking to a guy > > > who works at a record store that got the promo and he said the cover is > > > horrific, a nude young girl thats body is disfigured or something like that > > > (i did not actually see the cover just going by what he said). Mabey > > > thats why the cd's release date is pushed back in europe. > > I don't think so. It would certainly constitute a good reason to push back > the release date in the USA, but NOT in Europe. > > To illustrate this opinion, MTV no longer shows the version of the (brilliant) > new Cardigans video where singer Nina Persson crashes everything she finds in > her way during a car-ride, and in the end crashes herself against a mini-van. > The video very graphically shows Nina being launched out of the car and bouncing > off the top of the van, onto the road. She proceeds to display a thin line of > blood oozing from the corner of her mouth, and is eventually knocked out or > killed by the stone that she placed on the gas pedal to be able to stand upright > while driving. > > Contrary to MTV, however, the Dutch equivalent TMF is showing the video > full-blown, any time of day. This quite illustrates the difference between > the US and Europe as far as these things are concerned. > > Frankco. > > -The reason i would think that is cause of the original cover of "Guts of a > Virgin", Painkiller was banned in europe, but if you saw the Toys Factory release > from Japan it had the art work that was intended. dan- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: Re: Another Zorn album... Date: 12 Oct 1998 16:18:58 +0200 (MEST) Frankco wrote: > Contrary to MTV, however, the Dutch equivalent TMF is showing the video > full-blown, any time of day. This quite illustrates the difference between > the US and Europe as far as these things are concerned. same with the Prodigy's video for "smack my bitch up" which was shown on MTV only after midnight. on german music channels VIVA and VIVA II u could see it all the time. BJOERN - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Charles Jacobus <cjacobus@avesta.com> Subject: re: context Date: 12 Oct 1998 10:11:41 -0400 In response to: > You make sense, William. This whole thing with > context is a major *problem* I've had with Zorn's > music from the beginning. Often times, I feel all > Zorn's compositional basis is just new context > for established ideas (ie his influences). and: > Speaking of that style and Zorn's context > issue in particular what Pratt doesn't like > about Zorn is precisely why I like him so > much. As a visual artist who does more or > less what Zorn does, I believe that the whole > "postmodern" question is one of context. I > think that collaging elements together does > more to ask questions about "our" culture, > than any "unified" work does, and that these > are the questions that need to be asked at > this point in history. The idea that "poly-contextualism" is novel is the scourge of our time. Let's not forget that this kind of thing has been going on forever in all of the arts (and other fields too). History is full of examples of one (usually dominant) culture borrowing or "appropriating" the work/style of other cultures. There are a lot of reasons for this. Perhaps most significantly, it serves to validate the work of the newer dominant culture. Denis, it might be helpful to ask exactly what kinds of "questions" post-modernism pretends to ask (or seek to answer). This kind of activity can also be part of a natural, creative process and is in this respect less about validation than a way of paying homage. (I believe someone mentioned Ives in this regard.) And I believe this also helps explain some of what Zorn (and others mentioned in this list) are doing. Whether its good or not is something else. Some of it is and some of it isn't. Really don't mean to rant on and on... Thanks. Charles. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale <jhale@sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: Anyone got a clue what happened to the movie Date: 12 Oct 1998 10:22:15 -0500 Lang Thompson wrote: > > It was shown at the (Re)Soundings Festival in Atlanta last July, though it > was rescheduled at the last moment so I wasn't able to see it. As far as I > know, none of Snow's films are available on video. LT Well, some were made under the auspices of the National Film Board of Canada, which has released almost everything it made on video. Not sure if they have a US distributor, but all NFB material is available in Canada, either for rent or sale. James Hale - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stefan Verstraeten <stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be> Subject: Guitar / Robert Musso Date: 12 Oct 1998 16:36:18 +0100 Dear Listmembers, As always, i saw some very interesting recommendations for guitar music. But i wondered why nobody ever mentioned the guitarplayer Robert Musso. Yes, he is the sound engineer for practically all the Laswell albums.... BUT he seems to be a very good guitar player as well. Unfortunately, i have never heard one of his albums. Can someone give some recommendations on this guy (perhaps Jeff Spirer)????? For example, who is the Robert Musso All Star Band ??????? NP Divination (with Laraaji) (Thank you Jeff Spirer for the link where to order this CD, it seems to be unobtainable here in Belgium, Europe) -- Stefan Verstraeten - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: Guitar / Robert Musso Date: 12 Oct 1998 11:02:12 -0500 >Unfortunately, i have never heard one of his albums. Can someone give >some recommendations on this guy I enjoy his first (?) record, 'Absolute Music' on, as I recall, his own Mu Works label. Some of it is rather sing-songy ('Surakarta'), but in a catchy enough manner that you're likely to find yourself often whistling them. Guitar pyrotechnics are nicely subdued in favor of total sound. Not sure how easy it is to come by these days. His second release, 'Active Resonance', I found less interesting, more of a grab bag. Haven't heard anything under his own name since. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Patrick Ivan Jenkins <cz176@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: new york eye and ear control Date: 12 Oct 1998 12:34:03 -0400 (EDT) New York Eye and Ear Contro, a filml by Michael Snow is distributed in Canada by the Canadian Filmmaker's Distribution Centre and is probably distributed in the USA by either the Filmmaker's Cooperative in New York and/or Canyon Cinema in San Francisco. You can contact the Canadian Filmmaker's Distribution Centre at cfmdc@interlog.com. They have a website at http://www.cfmdc.org Hope that this is useful. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org> Subject: Re: Guitar / Robert Musso Date: 12 Oct 1998 09:40:19 -0700 At 04:36 PM 10/12/98 +0100, Stefan Verstraeten wrote: >As always, i saw some very interesting recommendations for guitar music. >But i wondered why nobody ever mentioned the guitarplayer Robert Musso. >Yes, he is the sound engineer for practically all the Laswell albums.... >BUT he seems to be a very good guitar player as well. > >Unfortunately, i have never heard one of his albums. Can someone give >some recommendations on this guy (perhaps Jeff Spirer)????? For example, >who is the Robert Musso All Star Band ??????? Bob put out three recordings under the name Transonic on the FAX label. These are heavily processed, i.e., not a lot of distinct guitar. He has also appeared under the same name on at least one other CD that Bill produced. He has a new one on Wordsound and one coming out on an undetermined label. I would agree that _Absolute Music_ is the better of the earlier two under his own name. I believe that this was originally distributed by Bruce at Downtown Music Gallery (dmg@panix.com) and it may be available there. Maybe Mike from dmg can post on this. Jeff Spirer B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/ Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re: Guitar / Robert Musso Date: 12 Oct 1998 14:39:37 -0500 Stefan Verstraeten wrote: > > Dear Listmembers, > > As always, i saw some very interesting recommendations for guitar music. > But i wondered why nobody ever mentioned the guitarplayer Robert Musso. > Yes, he is the sound engineer for practically all the Laswell albums.... > BUT he seems to be a very good guitar player as well. > > Unfortunately, i have never heard one of his albums. Can someone give > some recommendations on this guy (perhaps Jeff Spirer)????? For example, > who is the Robert Musso All Star Band ??????? His 2 albums under his own name; Absolute Music and Active Resonance, as well as the 3 recorded under the name Machine Gun, were on his now-defunkt mu-works label. check the used bins, thats where you're most likely to find them. The Machine Gun discs bear a conceptual resemblance to Last Exit, a bit more rock influenced, and the first 2 feature Sharrock on a couple of cuts. Active Resonance is a fairly strait forward Rock/Funk disc. Its a strange listen, Musso plundered the vaults of Material drum tracks, and then wrote new songs on top of them. I keep expecting to hear Memory Serves. RW - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: al.t@mtnhdw.com (Al T) Subject: RE: God Date: 13 Oct 1998 03:58:31 GMT Nicholas of Cusanus. I've seen him quoted often but never read him. He's a Christian mystic of, I believe, the early middles ages but I'm likely off a number of centuries. He's also the guy who said, "God is a sphere whose center is everywhere and circumference nowhere." Al T ------------ re: Al T mentioned: God is simultaneous mutual implication of everything, quoted from Nicholas of somewhere or other. Any info on the author, or his thought? I like this in a Spinoza-Leibniz kind of way. Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dennis summers <denniss@ic.net> Subject: Date: 12 Oct 1998 17:22:36 -0600 >>... I think that collaging elements >> together does more to ask questions about "our" culture, than any "unified" >> work does, and that these are the questions that need to be asked at this >> point in history. >Now I'm no expert on post-modernism but what questions are these? In short, (because unfortunately I just don't have the time right now, and I do apologize), the idea is that the "European/Modern" tradition in the arts (across the boards) is bankrupt. That tradition supports a very specific "white anglo-saxon" agenda that everything including the arts "improves" in an evolutionary way, with the goal of being "superior" to that which came before. This attitude even permeates "non-white" traditions such as jazz. Of late many artists have suggested that by comparing other cultures or subcultures to one another we can explore contrasts and commonalities. Specifically in the case of Zorn, I see his work as more than simply composing styles one after the other, that he asks us to see how they interrelate in a range of musical _and_ especially cultural ways. I think that many of us inadvertantly do this owing to our wide range of taste, i.e. we'll play our Ornette disc and then our Hank Williams disk. But still after many listens to the Naked City stuff, in particular the first disk, the energy and the contrasts still get my blood boiling (in a good way). I think this style is significantly different (not necessarily better) than what composers like Dvorak (sp?) did when incorporating Hungarian folk tunes in his symphonies. The actual "crash" of styles carries meaning above and beyond all the other musical and technical issues. I hope this helps clarify my opinion. yours in zornocity --ds ***Quantum Dance Works*** ****http://ic.net/~denniss**** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dennis summers <denniss@ic.net> Subject: Re: context (was Re: Jewish) (Oops forgot the subject) Date: 12 Oct 1998 17:23:49 -0600 >>... I think that collaging elements >> together does more to ask questions about "our" culture, than any "unified" >> work does, and that these are the questions that need to be asked at this >> point in history. >Now I'm no expert on post-modernism but what questions are these? In short, (because unfortunately I just don't have the time right now, and I do apologize), the idea is that the "European/Modern" tradition in the arts (across the boards) is bankrupt. That tradition supports a very specific "white anglo-saxon" agenda that everything including the arts "improves" in an evolutionary way, with the goal of being "superior" to that which came before. This attitude even permeates "non-white" traditions such as jazz. Of late many artists have suggested that by comparing other cultures or subcultures to one another we can explore contrasts and commonalities. Specifically in the case of Zorn, I see his work as more than simply composing styles one after the other, that he asks us to see how they interrelate in a range of musical _and_ especially cultural ways. I think that many of us inadvertantly do this owing to our wide range of taste, i.e. we'll play our Ornette disc and then our Hank Williams disk. But still after many listens to the Naked City stuff, in particular the first disk, the energy and the contrasts still get my blood boiling (in a good way). I think this style is significantly different (not necessarily better) than what composers like Dvorak (sp?) did when incorporating Hungarian folk tunes in his symphonies. The actual "crash" of styles carries meaning above and beyond all the other musical and technical issues. I hope this helps clarify my opinion. yours in zornocity --ds ***Quantum Dance Works*** ****http://ic.net/~denniss**** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cbwdeluxe1@aol.com Subject: European/Modern bankrupt Date: 12 Oct 1998 19:35:55 EDT granted the outreach beyond European/Modern ideas is a good thing, but your not really going to say that " 'European/Modern' tradition in the arts (across the boards) is bankrupt." come on now, that's the stuff of lazy grad students trying to get their papers published by being "radical." the twentieth century alone has produced so much 'European/Modern' theory that it has yet to be digested, let alone discarded. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: Date: 12 Oct 1998 19:34:38 -0400 > That tradition supports a very specific > "white anglo-saxon" agenda that everything including the arts "improves" in > an evolutionary way, with the goal of being "superior" to that which came > before. This attitude even permeates "non-white" traditions such as jazz. Of > late many artists have suggested that by comparing other cultures or > subcultures to one another we can explore contrasts and commonalities. Do these artists hold any regard for innovation? (You don't exactly make this clear) I think it is *very* important to compare and contrast other cultures and subcultures but I believe these observations must be applied in a way that produces a non-stagnant art. I nearly equate "innovative" with "personal" (shit! Cage... *except* Cage) and I find this kind of compare/contrast to be too objective. > Specifically in the case of Zorn, I see his work as more than simply > composing styles one after the other, that he asks us to see how they > interrelate in a range of musical _and_ especially cultural ways. I > think that many of us inadvertantly do this owing to our wide range of > taste, i.e. we'll play our Ornette disc and then our Hank Williams > disk. I suppose I would prefer to do this myself. -Tom "just took out AMM for Xavier Cugat" Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: European/Modern bankrupt Date: 12 Oct 1998 17:28:46 -0700 On Mon, 12 Oct 1998 19:35:55 EDT Cbwdeluxe1@aol.com wrote: > > granted the outreach beyond European/Modern ideas is a good thing, but your > not really going to say that " 'European/Modern' tradition in the arts (across > the boards) is bankrupt." come on now, that's the stuff of lazy grad students > trying to get their papers published by being "radical." the twentieth century ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ But when you notice that their teachers had to do the same thing with (pick your favorite flavor of the month) phenomenology, structuralism, marxism, etc (all with the success we all know...), it makes you feel a little bit more indulgent with such attempts :-). > alone has produced so much 'European/Modern' theory that it has yet to be > digested, let alone discarded. But it is always simpler to assume that the previous generation got it wrong and start up with a new "revolutionary" system. With a little bit of luck, you can even graduate before this system gets out of fashion. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: cage question Date: 12 Oct 1998 22:51:17 -0400 I was reading something on Keith Rowe which said that he was very inspired by a 1961 recording of Cage's 'Variations II For Amplified Piano'. I was wondering if there are any recordings of this piece available on CD. Anyone know? -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M.Ho" <mus4mth@atlas.vcu.edu> Subject: Re: Marc Ribot Interview Date: 13 Oct 1998 9:59:51 EDT > > Could whoever originally posted the link to the interview please re-post > it, I accidentily deleted the e-mail before I got a chance to bookmark > the link. > > Thanks, > Joe the address is http://shamash.org/shmooze/jsps/index.html It's a very entertaining article where he talks about the taboo of Jewish people as sexual icons (and makes a comparison to the Marx Brothers) and how he wanted to call the "Radical New Jewish Music Festival" the "Loud and Pushy Festival" Enjoy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Charles Jacobus <cjacobus@avesta.com> Subject: re: European/Modern bankruptcy Date: 13 Oct 1998 10:14:17 -0400 Dennis Summers wrote: > the idea is that the "European/Modern" tradition > in the arts (across the boards) is bankrupt. That > tradition supports a very specific "white anglo- > saxon" agenda that everything including the arts > "improves" in an evolutionary way, with the goal > of being "superior" to that which came before. > This attitude even permeates "non-white" > traditions such as jazz. You're opinion/explanation of post-modernism is so misinformed that there is no credible way to respond to it. White? Improvement? Superiority? Who says these things? Who? Give me actions. Give me examples. Who is heading this agenda? Cbwdeluxe1 and Patrice (with tongue in cheek) are right. This reeks of academicism and opportunism. To follow up on your example: I would suggest that what people like Dvorak, Mahler, Ives, Ayler (and now Zorn) did is fundamentally the same - they made music! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DRoyko@aol.com Subject: Re: Ayler Date: 13 Oct 1998 11:47:18 EDT Weighing in on the Ayler Impulse stuff--I have most of this from earlier incarnations, and I too am an Ayler fan of the trio (Peacock/Murray) especially with the addition of Cherry. I have never found the Live Impulse recordings (or the stuff like the live sessions Hat Art issued) to be as powerful, and the "marching band" aspect of Ayler has always left me cold. So, I myself will be taking a pass on the new reissue. Dave Royko - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "m. rizzi" <rizzi@netcom.com> Subject: Seeing Jazz Date: 14 Oct 1998 18:34:03 -0700 (PDT) While cruising the S.F. MOMA bookstore last week, I flipped through a book of photographs titled "Seeing Jazz"...low and behold on pp. 112 there was Zorn. mike - providing lint balls of information to make the zorn-list collector nerd sweat. rizzi@netcom.com -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com "Another nerd with a soulpatch" -------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 ------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Tyner Date: 15 Oct 1998 09:50:15 GMT0BST Is anyone familiar with McCoy Tyner's 1980 (?) album "Horizon". If so, could they post personnel/date info please? Sean Wilkie The connection is that Tyner recently "did" Bacharach who wrote Alfie which featured Michael Caine who, in Hannah And Her Sisters, was married to Mia Farrow, who in turn, in Crimes and Misdemeanours, married Alan Alda, who's ever known for his portrayal in MASH of Hawkeye, played by Donald Sutherland in the film. And Sutherland's son was in flatliners with Kevin Bacon, whose name brings to mind Bacon Bunch from the otherwise not so hot Tales From The Far Side album by Bill Frisell, guitarist with Zorn's Naked City. Phew! And you thought this wasn't relevant!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stefan Verstraeten <stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be> Subject: Divination (Laswell) Date: 15 Oct 1998 11:53:38 +0100 Hi, I recently bought the new divination cd, featuring laswell and Laraaji (on electric zither). The album is really great: no drums or beats, just 'moods'. All the four tracks are amazing, but the first two are definetly the best. 'Reflection' reminds me of Laswell/Buckethead (very moody, even quite romantic -in a laswellian style, if that word exists) and the second one 'Waterbass' shows Laswell in his best way again: no beat, very dark, very hypnotic, yep, i love uncle bill this way. What i'd like to say: Has anyone some background on this Laraaji (has he recorded with Laswell before???) Best wishes, np Aube 'Embers'. The japanese noise master does it again. The sound source this time is fire, and the cd comes with a zippo. ps Thanks everybody again for the help on Transonic (I send mail to DMG, PBE and EAR) -- Stefan Verstraeten - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be> Subject: Re: [laswell] Divination (Laswell) Date: 15 Oct 1998 12:14:13 +0200 > What i'd like to say: Has anyone some background on this Laraaji (has he > recorded with Laswell before???) Laraaji is a black musician (born Edward Gordon, in 1943 , Philadelphia) playing trance-music on electric zither, autoharp and exotic percussion, influenced by minimalism and gamelan. He was discovered by Brian Eno in the seventies, while playing in Washington Square Park, and made some albums for Eno's labels: AMbient 3 :Days of Radiance (EG, 1980), and a contribution to Music for films 3 (Opal, 1988), He also made an album with the Japanese dub-collective Audio Active (The way out is the way in , 1995) No recordings with Laswell , as far as I know. YVes - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Tyner Date: 15 Oct 1998 20:13:25 +1000 > The connection is that Tyner recently "did" Bacharach who wrote Alfie > which featured Michael Caine who, in Hannah And Her Sisters, was > married to Mia Farrow, who in turn, in Crimes and Misdemeanours, > married Alan Alda, who's ever known for his portrayal in MASH of > Hawkeye, played by Donald Sutherland in the film. And Sutherland's > son was in flatliners with Kevin Bacon, whose name brings to mind > Bacon Bunch from the otherwise not so hot Tales From The Far Side > album by Bill Frisell, guitarist with Zorn's Naked City. Phew! And > you thought this wasn't relevant!! Ok, very smart, but you missed a couple of simpler possibilities - for example, isn't the Tzadik Bacharach cd also "doing" Bacharach? Also, MASH's music was done by Johnny Mandel who also wrote "I Want To Live" from the "Naked City" cd. Check out one of those Kevin Bacon sites for an even quicker link. Uh, incidentally, what do you mean by "otherwise not so hot Tales From The Far Side"? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jim Glaspole" <drjim@ozemail.com.au> Subject: David Watson on Dr Jim's Records Date: 15 Oct 1998 21:41:20 +1000 Fellow subscribers to the list may be interested in a release or two on my label. David Watson is NZ born downtowner you may be aware of from his bagpipe work at the Knitting Factory, Bang-On-A-Can etc. We have a CD out by The Wax which has other musicians like Andrea Parkins, Ikue Mori, Kato Hideki, Evan Gallagher, Otomo Yoshihide. I believe David has a CD coming out on Avant soon. In the past we have released stuff by Blood Duster (post-death metal band named for a Naked City track) who are released in the USA by Relapse, and Phlegm, whose two Jewish members played at Zorn's 40th a few years back. Jim Glaspole Dr Jim's Records P.O. Box 45 Clifton Hill VIC 3068 Australia http://www.ozemail.com.au/~drjim drjim@ozemail.com.au fax: +61 (0)3 9428 8785 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Silent Watcher" <silent_watcher@hotmail.com> Subject: Tyner and Alice Coltrane Date: 15 Oct 1998 05:22:09 PDT I know, I know. Straying a little further off-topic, but since Tyner was brought up... I'm back in an Alice Coltrane mood, now that Impulse! has released "A Monastic Trio". Has anyone heard McCoy Tyner's "Extension", which Alic C. played harp on? Is it worth buying? Thanks. Peace, DB Bill Laswell, Eraldo Bernocchi and Lori Carson Discographies at : http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: Tyner and Alice Coltrane Date: 15 Oct 1998 08:25:32 -0500 >I'm back in an Alice Coltrane mood, now that Impulse! has released "A >Monastic Trio". Has anyone heard McCoy Tyner's "Extension", which Alic >C. played harp on? Is it worth buying? Thanks. Both 'Extensions' and 'Asante' from around the same time (c. 1970) are enjoyable and worth hearing. They serve as fine stepping stones towards the extraordinary, unrivalled 'Sahara'. Zorn question: Having just relistened to 'New Traditions in East Asian Bar Bands' (and still thoroughly enjoying it), I'm wondering if anyone knows whether Zorn wrote other pieces in this sub-genre and, if so, are there plans for recording them. I recall seeing at least two of these performed (at Town Hall NYC, sharing the bill with Naked City) about ten years back, but can't remember if there were others that have gone unrecorded. Brian Olewnick NR: Jim Harrison's 'The Road Home' On deck, due to recs herein: Murakami's 'Wind-Up Bird Chronicles' - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Tors <jtors@organic.com> Subject: | NEW ||| | || not so new ||| || | || Date: 15 Oct 1998 09:45:14 -0400 Greetings Zornlist! I am back from my brief hiatus between jobs. I am delighted to be back in touch with this musical discussion group again. I recently puchased Allen Ginsberg, The Lion For Real, a spoken word album featuring many illustrious downtowners as musical backup. I am looking for good spoken word, good being where the music and the words interact. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. JT - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M.Ho" <mus4mth@atlas.VCU.EDU> Subject: Re: | NEW ||| | || not so new ||| || | || Date: 15 Oct 1998 10:46:26 EDT > I am looking for > good spoken word, good being where the music and the words interact. > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. There is a great album that Ornette Coleman's X-wife put out and it also has his son Denardo on drums. Her name is Jane Cortez and it is wonderful stuff. -Mary - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dennis summers <denniss@ic.net> Subject: re: European/Modern bankruptcy Date: 15 Oct 1998 08:48:04 -0600 Regarding Tom Pratt and >Do these artists hold any regard for innovation? (You don't exactly make this clear) Innovation is a slippery term. At one extreme is an artist (whose name escapes me), who simply paint copies of Modrian paintings for exhibition (I think I'm remembering this right). Although this seems a little extreme to me, her "recontextualizing" was all the rage a few years back. But it's a short step from that to Hip hop mixers or John Oswald, and then on to people like Zorn who at least write something new in the style of ... Regarding the anti-academic stance of Cbwdeluxe and Charles Jacobus, there's not really much I can say. One of the advantages of living in this time and place is that we have many choices to pick from for our world view. If you two choose to pick a different one than mine, it's unlikely that I can change your mind. Questions such as "Who is heading this agenda?" display a take on philosophy that reveals to me such a gulf between our attitudes that even if I suggested reading books by say Thomas McEvilley it's doubtful that you would find them "credible." As an aside I'd like to clarify that I'm well aware that the term began in architecture where it had a vastly different definition than the one that has been popularized in other fields. Regarding the actual word "bankrupt" perhaps that's a little strong, perhaps a better expression would be "useless as a guide for the future." That's not to say that the best of the past won't speak still to some of us, just that other cultures are not simply other "styles" to be mined for exotica. They are whole different ways of understanding everything, and by taking advantage of them we escape the limits of the anglo-european culture. Personally, to those of you that consider this academic there's not a whole lot I can say. I consider it to be the most valuable thing human beings can do. >I would suggest that >what people like Dvorak, Mahler, Ives, Ayler (and now >Zorn) did is fundamentally the same - they made music! If this was the level of sophistication to our conversation, then we don't really need a Zorn list do we? yours in multi-cultural zornocity --ds ***Quantum Dance Works*** ****http://ic.net/~denniss**** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cbwdeluxe1@aol.com Subject: re: European/Modern bankruptcy Date: 15 Oct 1998 11:13:09 EDT i hardly think it can be said that charles & myself (patrice threw one out too) are anti-acedemic. especially when that is being based on the fact that we cried bullshit when it was said European&Modern theory were bankrupt. the fact is, that is simply not true, and often IS a cheap ploy used by people trying to eek out a living or credibility in the acedemic world. you mentioned architecture as the origin post-modernism, which is interesting (although untrue, i think that would be literature) because the late nineties have been marked by a great return to modernism by architects who reliaze there wasn't actually a lot to learn from las vegas. people who figured out that the shock of the new is often just a cheap thrill. clint - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: European/Modern bankruptcy Date: 15 Oct 1998 08:53:58 -0700 On Thu, 15 Oct 1998 11:13:09 EDT Cbwdeluxe1@aol.com wrote: > > i hardly think it can be said that charles & myself (patrice threw one out > too) are anti-acedemic. especially when that is being based on the fact that > we cried bullshit when it was said European&Modern theory were bankrupt. the > fact is, that is simply not true, and often IS a cheap ploy used by people > trying to eek out a living or credibility in the acedemic world. > > you mentioned architecture as the origin post-modernism, which is interesting > (although untrue, i think that would be literature) because the late nineties ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Yes, this also puzzled me. Post-modernism finds its roots in the writings of a few French thinkers of the '60s and '70s (which are taken, in France, with the grain of salt they deserve). They were mainly active in human science studies. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SRus721639@aol.com Subject: Swaps Date: 15 Oct 1998 12:04:10 EDT I have the following items for exchange, please email me privately if you are interested in anything. By way of swaps I'd be particularly interested in music concrete recordings and Merzbow's 1930. Violent Onsen Geisha: Que Sera Sera, Por Supesto Records Universal Congress of...: The Eleventh Hour Shine On, Enemy LA 1919: Jouer, Spielen, To Play, Materiali Sonori Tetsuo Inoue, Psycho-Acoustic, Tzadik Bang on A Can: Industry, Sony Classical Alan Licht/Keiji Haino; Gerry Miles, Atavistic Haco: Haco, ReR Borbetomagus; Experience the Magic, Agaric Bob Ostertag, Attention Span, RecRec Peril: Peril, Survival Scott Russell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Tyner Date: 15 Oct 1998 13:07:25 -0400 (EDT) Sean (and others) re: Tyner's LP Horizon recorded April 1979 featuring: Tyner (piano), John Blake (violin), Joe Ford (fl,ss,as); George Adams (fl,ts), Charles Fambrough (b); Al Foster (d) and Guilherme Franco (con. perc) The connection here is that John Blake was once part of a violin section on an Archie Shepp release with Leroy Jenkins. And through his AACM connection Jenkins has played with trombonist George Lewis. And Lewis has played and recorded with Zorn, most notably on Yankees with the two and Derek Bailey, who probably doesn't know who Kevin Bacon is, or even care. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Spoken Word Date: 15 Oct 1998 13:17:47 -0400 (EDT) IMHO the two "best" jazz& spoken word intersections occupy one track each on otherwise all instrumental albums. LeRoi Jones (now Amira Baraka) reading "Black Dada Nihilismus" on the New York Art Quartet ESP Disk and "Scenes In The City" read by actor Melvin Stewart but written by Charles Mingus for his Bethlehem session which was originally called something like "An Exploration of Jazz and Poetry by Charles Mingus". Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Thu, 15 Oct 1998, Jason Tors wrote: > > I recently puchased Allen Ginsberg, The Lion For Real, a spoken word album > featuring many illustrious downtowners as musical backup. I am looking for > good spoken word, good being where the music and the words interact. > > Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > > JT > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: { brad brace } <bbrace@wired.com> Subject: Bell Date: 15 Oct 1998 11:16:19 -0700 (PDT) Listening to the Bell (Yikes Records), 2 CD set, recorded at The Bell Cafe, NYC, Spring 1998 -- like it! -- sort of Lazwell-like with a East Indian twinge (?) The_12hr-ISBN-JPEG_Project since 1994 <<< > serial ftp://ftp.wco.com/pub/users/bbrace < > eccentric ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/bb/bbrace < > continuous ftp://ftp.teleport.com/users/bbrace < > hypermodern ftp://ftp.rdrop.com/pub/users/bbrace < > imagery online ftp://ftp.pacifier.com/pub/users/bbrace < Usenet-news: alt.binaries.pictures.12hr/ a.b.p.fine-art.misc Mailing-list: listserv@netcom.com / subscribe 12hr-isbn-jpeg Reverse Solidus: http://www.teleport.com/~bbrace/bbrace.html { brad brace } <<<< bbrace@netcom.com >>>> ~finger for pgp -- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sean Terwilliger <seanter@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Bell Date: 15 Oct 1998 14:36:44 -0400 { brad brace } wrote: > Listening to the Bell (Yikes Records), 2 CD set, recorded at The Bell > Cafe, NYC, Spring 1998 -- like it! -- sort of Lazwell-like with a East > Indian twinge (?) Hmmm. Anyone have any more information on this one? How about the upcoming Django Bates on screwgun? -Sean - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: Spoken Word/Process Music Date: 15 Oct 1998 13:57:49 -0500 My first thought on Jason's query was of that most integrated of spoken word/music pieces, Lucier's "I Am Sitting In A Room" (where the spoken word, through the interaction with tape recorder and room, actually creates the music), though I'm not sure that's what he was after. But it got me thinking about examples of what I would call 'process music', which I'd define as the instigator (composer, if you will) setting up initial conditions or potentialities and then "flipping a switch" setting the process in motion and observing, hopefully enjoying, the results with minimal subsequent interference. Ideally, the process begins as a fairly discrete, apparently simple situation and evolves into a complex one in ways the instigator either could not have predicted or could only have guessed at generally. The driving cause behind this might be simply "to hear what happens when...". Some might complain that this straddles the line between art and science experiment but, personally, that doesn't bother me a bit. Some well known examples might be: 1)Reich's early tape pieces (and, by extension, the complex rhythms generated in work like "Drumming") 2)Eno's 'Discrete Music' and 'Music for Airports' (whose written descriptions of these works comes closest to what I'm talking about) 3)Much of Lucier's work 4)Even Bryar's "Jesus' Blood..." seems to me to be somewhat in this vein, though he, as composer, "fiddles" with it to a great degree. I'm sure there are many others I'm either not thinking of or haven't heard (I don't think 'Cobra' or JZ's other game pieces qualify, as there's too much directional input from both the prompter and musicians--I don't suppose anyone's tried to program Cobra's strategies into computer-generated instruments a la Teitelbaum or Lewis and let them have a go at it themselves, have they? Now, there's an idea!). I know composer Phil Kline has done work in this type of arena; anyone who heard his 'Whole Lotta' at the Bang on a Can marathon a couple years back where he essentially pulled a Lucier with a fragment of the Led Zep tune, multi-recorded on ten or twelve boomboxes and "ambientized" by the room, experienced quite a treat. Any others? Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rusty Crump <rusty@steno.com> Subject: Nov. 8 SF show Date: 15 Oct 1998 13:23:15 -0800 I'll be in SF on November 8th for the Masada show, and am wondering if any of the Bay Area Zornlisters have any plans to get together on the day of the show. I recently moved to Redding, CA from Oxford, MS, and will be in SF for the first time since a one-day jaunt when I was ten years old. Aside from the Masada gig, I'm hoping to find some Vietnamese food -- I never thought of Memphis as much of a stronghold of Vietnamese cookery, but Redding, Chico, and I think Sacramento, have nothing of the sort. Bummer! I'm jonesin for some pho! Anyway, it might be interesting if a bunch of zornlisters got together, as long as it doesn't turn into "my cd collection can beat up your cd collection." Rusty Crump Wherethehellami, California House of Steno, Inc. Commercial Printing & Publishing . . . where you're more than just a customer - you're a friend 1701 California Street * Redding, California 96001 530/241/6051 * 800/479/6062 www.steno.com Made with Macintosh!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J. Kan" <jkan@javanet.com> Subject: RE: Tyner and Alice Coltrane Date: 15 Oct 1998 17:11:09 -0400 > Zorn question: Having just relistened to 'New Traditions in East Asian > Bar Bands' (and still thoroughly enjoying it), I'm wondering if anyone > knows whether Zorn wrote other pieces in this sub-genre and, if so, > are there plans for recording them. Well, there's "Forbidden Fruit" from _Spillane_. Jim - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: numbat@vianet.net.au (Sibree/Wilkes) Subject: Re: | NEW ||| | || not so new ||| || | || Date: 16 Oct 1998 06:47:19 +0800 >> I am looking for >> good spoken word, good being where the music and the words interact. >> >> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > >There is a great album that Ornette Coleman's X-wife put out and it >also has his son Denardo on drums. Her name is Jane Cortez and it is >wonderful stuff. > >-Mary > >- Hi, It is not so easy for me to access my music at the moment, but from memory, Jane Cortez has put out several albums, at least 2 of which are on cd. I also seem to recall that an early lp had ex husband Ornette guesting on one or two tracks. All are worth getting. This is very strong stuff with great musicians. I am also pretty certain that her last album was on Ornette's harmolodic label. Billy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Christian Heslop" <xian@mbay.net> Subject: Re: Nov. 8 SF show Date: 15 Oct 1998 16:23:23 -0700 What exactly are the show dates for the SF Masada?I live in Monterey, but I have an unbreakable schedule and very limited free time during the week.Otherwise, I would be interested! As for Vietnamese food, try San Jose, Stockton, Fresno and of course S.F. ---------- > From: Rusty Crump <rusty@steno.com> > To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > 530/241/6051 * 800/479/6062 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "ADM" <ameyers@concentric.net> Subject: notice for SFers Date: 15 Oct 1998 19:29:26 -0700 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BDF872.1F0C4560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Peeps from the San Francisco Area might want to know that the "John = Schott Quintet" will be playing Masada covers at Bruno's on October 26. = The band includes Jewlia Eisenberg (vocals), Tom Yoder (trombone), Scott = Amendola (drums), Rob Burger (organ), and of course John Schott = (guitar). Scott Amendola and John Schott both played with Masada in May = and it was great. This ought to be interesting. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BDF872.1F0C4560 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Peeps from the San Francisco Area = might want to=20 know that the "John Schott Quintet" will be playing Masada = covers at=20 Bruno's on October 26. The band includes Jewlia Eisenberg = (vocals), Tom=20 Yoder (trombone), Scott Amendola (drums), Rob Burger (organ), and of = course John=20 Schott (guitar). Scott Amendola and John Schott both played with = Masada in=20 May and it was great. This ought to be=20 interesting.</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BDF872.1F0C4560-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Risser Family <risser@goodnews.net> Subject: US Maple Date: 15 Oct 1998 22:11:42 -0400 Someone mentioned US Maple last week I think and I just wanted to say = that US Maple is the only nowave (?) band recently that rocks rocks = rocks. At least on the first album. I haven't heard the second. Anyone else find them interesting? Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Hollo <raven@fourplay.com.au> Subject: Re: (Zorn) Swaps Date: 16 Oct 1998 12:58:01 +1000 > Violent Onsen Geisha: Que Sera Sera, Por Supesto Records Although I suspect I'm of no help at all with swaps, I was wondering: What is this version of Que Cera Cera like? I once saw an Israeli dance company (Batsheva Dance) doing an amazing amazing work (Mabul) which used large amounts of John Zorn music, as well as Arvo Part and a little other stuff... And it ended with this incredible apocalyptic yet cathartic version of Que Cera Cera, with quite pretty female vocals over a sortof sinister Mr Bungle-like accompaniment. Would this be that? I always assumed it was Zorn but can find no mention of it anywhere. Peter. -- Peter Hollo raven@fourplay.com.au http://www.fourplay.com.au/me.html FourPlay - Eclectic Electric String Quartet http://www.fourplay.com.au "Of course, dance music can be a music where you lie on your back and your brain cells dance" -Michael Karoli of Can, quoted in Wire mag. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FJG_Lamerikx <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> Subject: Fushitsusha, Artemyev Date: 16 Oct 1998 08:55:37 +0200 (MET DST) Stock-picking: Yesterday, I picked up a package from the great Aquarius Records in SF, containing amongst other fine things, the Fushitsusha release on Victo, and the soundtrack to "Solaris" on the Japanese Toei label. What is wrong with non-Japanese Fushitsusha releases? Why don't they stick with the all-black artwork concept? Plus, do I really need an explanation from Alan Cummings about the style of the title printed in the inner sleeve? I also think that the music does not stand up to any of the four Tokuma Fushitsusha releases - they more than definitely have an edge production-wise that I miss here, and I also missed it on the Gold Blood album (which also had lousy artwork). You only need to compare the version of "Pathetique" featured here to that on the album of the same name to find out why I prefer PSF and Tokuma releases. The "Solaris" soundtrack is brilliant, and works very well detached from the images. The Toei label has released a couple of other Tarkovsky soundtracks, "Stalker" being one of them. Highly recommended. Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Tyner's Extensions Date: 16 Oct 1998 09:14:38 GMT0BST Silent Watcher, I haven't heard Asante (recently re-released as mid-price in UK, but not featuring Alice), but I'd second Brian's opinion on Extensions. For me, it falls a notch below the incredible highs of Real McCoy, Time For Tyner and Expansions (all on Blue Note), which precede it, and Sahara (on Milestone? OJC?) which follows; but 2 of the 4 tracks at least are really burnin' stuff ... Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Smart, connections, Frisell Date: 16 Oct 1998 09:23:09 GMT0BST Julian, (very) smart is not what I thought I was. I was, surprisingly, aware of the more direct so-called "connections". I suppose the point was that they didn't include Kevin Bacon. But it was a joke, and (some of) my links were deliberately tenuous. By otherwise not-so-hot TFTFS, I meant what I thought I'd said: that Bacon Bunch is a fine piece (as are two or three others) but that this isn't Bill's best work (nor was it, Gary Larsen's). I think it's a bit extreme for me to PROMISE not to do it again? Best, Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Spoken word/Mingus' scenes in the city Date: 16 Oct 1998 09:28:50 GMT0BST Um, Is there anybody out there who's noticed the different mono and stereo edits of this and two other tracks on A Jazz Symposium? I think there's at least one insuperable problem with the "official" story of the editing, but I've been waiting over a year for the Mingus experts to respond. Mail privately if you want to pursue it. (I won't hold my breath). Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: US Maple and V.Majestic Date: 16 Oct 1998 06:07:48 EDT In a message dated 10/16/98 12:23:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, risser@goodnews.net writes: > Someone mentioned US Maple last week I think and I just wanted to say that US > Maple is the only nowave (?) band recently that rocks rocks rocks. At least > on the first album. I haven't heard the second. I really enjoy their second one. It is supposedly a bit more off-kilter than the first as posted by someone else. I looked for it this past weekend at my favorite CD shoppe but it was not in stock. I did however, come across the self-titled CD by the Rhode Island (?) band who call themselve(s?) V.Majestic, in a cheapo bin. I had read a short blurb about them somewhere that described their music as a cross between Can and Beefheart. Don't see those points of reference in this music, but I can say that the band is a pretty strange lot. Few vocals, horn section that sounds like it might have been lifted from a Albert Marcoeur LP, and some crazed electronics. If U.S. Maple is "no-wave", you can probably throw these guys in the same catagory. Worth looking into if one is looking for some weird 'n' wacko music. =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Fushitsusha, Artemyev Date: 16 Oct 1998 06:07:50 EDT In a message dated 10/16/98 4:02:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, flamerik@best.ms.philips.com writes: > The "Solaris" soundtrack is brilliant, and works very well detached from the > images. The Toei label has released a couple of other Tarkovsky soundtracks, > "Stalker" being one of them. Highly recommended. > Agreed- to an extent. I highly suggest the _Solaris_ soundtrack- classic "Berlin school" -styled electronics with some differences- namely the overtly "Russian classical" influences. The other three CDs are a bit harder to get into. The one that contains the soundtracks for _Stalker_ and _Zerkalo_ (I think I spelled that right) was a bit of a letdown. The music is great, but it seemed that the tracks were fading out just as they were getting interesting. In addition, the high price of the CDs (I bought mine for around $30/each) are a bit hard to swallow. I'd recommend the _Solaris_, but the others one can skip without missing much. I'd like to find copies of Tarkovsky's films, but everywhere i've looked is out of stock. Amazon told me they were out of print for now. Bummer. =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J.T. de Boer" <J.T.de.Boer@let.rug.nl> Subject: Re: oops - zorn content! Date: 16 Oct 1998 12:38:59 +0200 Zorn will be in Rotterdam october the 26th with his Jewish Chamber Ensemble (that's what the publicity mentioned). This undoubtetely is Bar Kokhba, isn't it? Anyway, the concert is in Nightown. Jeroen > hi fellow zornsters! > > i found out from the swiss tzadik distributor that the release of jz's > "music for children" cd has been postponed for europe. they didn't know > when it is going to be available. > > the good news are, that the masada chamber ensemble will be performing > in europe in march next year. something for all of us to look forward > to, i guess... > > hope i didn't waste anyones valuable time. > > patRice > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: MMW Date: 16 Oct 1998 12:42:59 GMT0BST Haven't seen too much discussion of the MMW "combustication " cd...also, has anyone heard the mail-order only release "farmer's reserve" ? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M.Ho" <mus4mth@atlas.vcu.edu> Subject: Re: TONIC - November Schedule Date: 16 Oct 1998 9:18:17 EDT >> > > > > >THE NEW MUSIC SERIES AT TONIC > >November, 1998 Schedule > >11/14 Roy Nathanson/Dougie Bowne/Rob Thomas Is this correct? Has Dougie Bowne recovered? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "hijk" <hijk@gateway.net> Subject: Django Bates Date: 16 Oct 1998 09:53:02 -0400 Several people (one several times?) have asked about the new Django Bates on Tim Berne's Screwgun label. I have not heard it myself, Steve I'm sure you have, but more info is available at the Screwgun website: http.//home.sprynet.com/sprynet/ssmith36/mainpage.htm The Lineup: Django Bates, keyboards, E-flat horn Iain Ballamy, saxophones Michael Mondesir, electric bass Martin France, drums Josefine Cronholm, vocals The Tunes: Speak Low, Teach Me Tonight, And the Mermaids Laughed, Quiet Nights of Quiet Stars,Hi Lili Hi Lo, Solitude, Like Someone in Love, Is There Anyone Up There?, Over The Rainbow Jeff Kent hijk@gateway.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Tors <jtors@organic.com> Subject: Farmer's Reserve | MMW | Date: 16 Oct 1998 10:05:28 -0400 I really like Farmer's Reserve, it fills the spacey-free element that was seriously lacking in the last two albums. If you like MMW but are sick of the groove this album is for you. Did anyone see MMW on July 4th at TONIC? JT - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: sean Date: 16 Oct 1998 23:59:34 +1000 Um, I'm just curious, don't ask me why... has anyone checked out Sean Lennon's album, and if so, is it any good at all? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Tors <jtors@organic.com> Subject: Re: Spoken Word Date: 16 Oct 1998 10:35:01 -0400 >"Scenes In The City" read by actor Melvin Stewart but written by Charles >Mingus for his Bethlehem session which was originally called something >like "An Exploration of Jazz and Poetry by Charles Mingus". I have never heard of this, was it a recording or a live performance? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dennis summers <denniss@ic.net> Subject: Postmodernism Date: 16 Oct 1998 08:42:06 -0600 I won't swear to this, but I'm fairly certain that the *word* postmodern came from architecture, although I agree that the *philosophy* began earlier. I haven't done a word search on those French guys to see if they ever used that word. I'm ready to let this thread die if you are? yours in postmodern zornocity --ds ***Quantum Dance Works*** ****http://ic.net/~denniss**** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Tors <jtors@organic.com> Subject: mingus open letter to miles (long) Date: 16 Oct 1998 11:04:27 -0400 FOund this while poking around for mingus spoken word material. By Charles Mingus November 30, 1955 Down Beat Magazine Four editions of Down Beat come to my mind's eye-Bird's "Blindfold Test," mine, Miles', and Miles' recent "comeback story"-as I sit down and attempt to honestly write my thoughts in an open letter to Miles Davis. (I discarded numerous "mental" letters before this writing, but one final letter formed last night as I looked through some pictures of Bird that Bob Parent had taken at a Village session.) If a picture needs to go with this story, it should be this picture of Bird, standing and looking downat Monk with more love than I think we'll ever find in this jazz business!.... Bird's love, so warmly obvious in this picture, was again demonstrated in his "Blindfold Test." But dig Miles' "Test"! As amatter of fact, dig my own "Blindfold Test"! See what I mean? And more recently, dig Miles' comeback story. How is Miles going to act when he gets back and gets going again? Will it be like a gig in Brooklyn not too long ago with Max, Monk, and me when he kept telling Monk to "lay out" because his chords were all wrong? Or even at a more recent record date when he cursed, laid out, argued, and threatened Monk and asked Bob Weinstock why he hired such a nonmusician and would Monk lay out on his trumpet solos? What's happening to us disciples of Bird? Or would Miles think I'm presuming too much to include myself as one? It seems so hard for some of us to grow up mentally just enough to realize there are other persons of flesh and bone, just like us, on this great, big earth. And if they don't ever stand still, move, or "swing," they are as right as we are, even if they are as wrong as hell by our standards. Yes, Miles, I am apologizing for my stupid "Blindfold Test." I can do it gladly because I'm learning a little something. No matter how much they try to say that Brubeck doesn't swing-or whatever else they're stewing or whoever else they're brewing-it's factually unimportant. Not because Dave made Time magazine-and a dollar-but mainly because Dave honestly thinks he's swinging. He feels a certain pulse and plays a certain pulse which gives him pleasure and a sense of exaltation because he's sincerely doing something the way he, Dave Brubeck, feels like doing it. And as you said in your story, Miles, "if a guy makes you pat your foot, and if you feel it down your back, etc.," then Dave is the swingingest by your definition, Miles, because at Newport and elsewhere Dave had the whole house patting its feet and even clapping its hands.... Miles, don't you remember that "Mingus Fingers" was written in 1945 when I was a youngster, 22 years of age, who was studying and doing his damnedest to write in the Ellington tradition? Miles, that was 10 years ago when I weighed 185. Those clothes are worn and don't fit me anymore. I'm a man; I weigh 215; I think my own way. I don't think like you and my music isn't meant just for the patting of feet and going down backs. When and if I feel gay and carefree, I write or play that way-or when I'm happy, or depressed, even. Just because I'm playing jazz I don't forget about me. I play or write me the way I feel through jazz, or whatever. Music is, or was, a language of the emotions. If someone has been escaping reality, I don't expect him to dig my music, and I would begin to worry about my writing if such a person began to really like it. My music is alive and it's about the living and the dead, about good and evil. It's angry yet it's real because it knows it's angry. I know you're making a comeback, Miles, and I'm with you more than you know. You're playing the greatest Miles I've ever heard, and I'm sure you already know that you're one of America's truly great jazz stylists. You're often fresh in a creative sense and, if anything, you underevaluate yourself-on the outside-and so with other associates in the art. Truly, Miles, I love you and want you to know you're needed here, but you're too important a person in jazz to be less than extra careful about what you say about other musicians who are also trying to create.... Remember me, Miles? I'm Charles. Yeah, Mingus! You read third trumpet on my California record dates 11 years ago on the recommendation of Lucky Thompson. So easy, young man. Easy on those stepping stones.... If you should get around to answering this open letter, Miles, there is one thing I would like to know concerning what you said to Nat Hentoff about all the tunes you've recorded in the last two years. Why did you continue to record, session after session, when you now say you didn't like them except for two LPs? I wonder if you forgot the names of those tunes; also, how a true artist can allow all this music, which even he himself doesn't like, to be sold to the jazz public. Or even accept payment for a job which you yourself say wasn't well done. Good luck on your comeback, Miles. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Charles Jacobus <cjacobus@avesta.com> Subject: RE: Postmodernism Date: 16 Oct 1998 10:56:17 -0400 Why not. I recently read that Postmodernism itself "died" a few summers ago. (Or was it a few winters ago? Damn, now I can't remember. I've already forgotten all about it, which is, interestingly enough, symptomatic of Postmodernism. No?) All in fun... Charles. > -----Original Message----- > From: dennis summers [SMTP:denniss@ic.net] > Sent: Friday, October 16, 1998 10:42 AM > To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Subject: Postmodernism > > I won't swear to this, but I'm fairly certain that the *word* postmodern > came from architecture, although I agree that the *philosophy* began > earlier. I haven't done a word search on those French guys to see if they > ever used that word. > > I'm ready to let this thread die if you are? > > yours in postmodern zornocity --ds > ***Quantum Dance Works*** > ****http://ic.net/~denniss**** > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: TONIC - November Schedule Date: 16 Oct 1998 08:13:23 -0700 On Fri, 16 Oct 98 9:18:17 EDT "M.Ho" wrote: > > > >11/14 Roy Nathanson/Dougie Bowne/Rob Thomas > > Is this correct? Has Dougie Bowne recovered? Looks like. He is playing on the Bolan tribute which was recorded late Spring. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "hijk" <hijk@gateway.net> Subject: RE: sean Date: 16 Oct 1998 11:18:49 -0400 I was not that impressed with the Sean Lennon album. However, I did see him live opening for Sonic Youth and I was very impressed. The band was really tight and I almost forgot that I was there to see SY. That's always the sign of a good oppening band. (Julian???) Jeff Kent hijk@gateway.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: sean Date: 16 Oct 1998 08:20:55 -0700 On Fri, 16 Oct 1998 23:59:34 +1000 "Julian" wrote: > > Um, I'm just curious, don't ask me why... has anyone checked out Sean > Lennon's album, and if so, is it any good at all? It is a fairly sweet album. Sean has an almost feminine voice, which can surprise at first, but I got used to it fairly quick. There are a few tracks with enough quirkiness to hold the attention of a listener who has interest in music beyond straight rock. My impression is that Sean is still looking for his way, but he has some ideas and a charming way (non pushy) to expose them. In short, not a killer rock record, but one that is quite pleasurable. Makes me curious about what direction he will take. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: mingus open letter to miles (long) Date: 16 Oct 1998 10:35:55 -0500 (CDT) Thanks for posting this! Quite intriguing... BTW, there's a new (to me at least) paperback edition of Jack Chanber's "Milestones". It includes the two volumes that had been released separately in hardcover, as well as a new introduction covering events after the original bio was published. It's a good reference -- sufficiently so that, as Chambers shows pretty convincingly in the new introduction, Miles referred to and cribbed from it rather extensively in creating his own autobiography. - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "hijk" <hijk@gateway.net> Subject: Lacy help Date: 16 Oct 1998 12:40:02 -0400 I just picked up 2 Steve Lacy LP's. Can anybody elaborate? Clangs - Duets with Andrea Centazzo on Ictus #0001 Scraps - Sextet w/S.Potts, M.Smith, I.Aebi, K.Carter, K.Tyler on Saravah #10049 Thanks, Jeff Kent hijk@gateway.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jtalbot@massart.edu Subject: spoken word suggstions Date: 16 Oct 1998 12:54:18 -0400 well i have a few suggestions that are a little different than what people have been suggesting. i just picked up an album called "the priest they called him". it is a collaboration between william s. burroughs and kurt cobain. it's a very short album (coming in just under 10 minutes) but i think it was worth the $11. kurt cobain is generating some feedback under burroughs' spoken text. i don't think the two ever met during this collaboration but i could be wrong. also i hear that jim carroll is accompanied by some noise artists on his new cd. if anyone is in the boston area or will be on november 5th i am producing an evening of spoken word that will include a few performers accompanied by music/noise. if anyone is interested in more details please email me privately. thanks the other jt jtalbot@massart.edu or apoesia794@aol.com >> I am looking for >> good spoken word, good being where the music and the words interact. >> >> Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: Lacy help Date: 16 Oct 1998 12:46:35 -0500 >Scraps - Sextet w/S.Potts, M.Smith, I.Aebi, K.Carter, K.Tyler on Saravah >#10049 "M. Smith" is one Michael Smith, an elusive and intriguing character I wouldn't mind finding more about. I think he had a duo record with Lacy (Smith is a pianist) on IAI from around '76. I have a strange Polish release of his from 1978 I think, called 'Geospheres', much of which is unusual and enjoyable, kind of a Braxtonish approach but with an underlying romantic moodiness (the cover painting--a laughably bad one in a spacey '70's style--shows a rather satanic visage). A friend was a little obsessed about this guy last year, trying to locate other releases or to find his current whereabouts (last heard of in France, I believe), but with little luck. Anyone know? For that matter, is Kent Carter still active? Brian Olewnick Brian Olewnick Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Lacy help Date: 16 Oct 1998 10:49:49 -0700 On Fri, 16 Oct 98 12:46:35 -0500 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > > > > >Scraps - Sextet w/S.Potts, M.Smith, I.Aebi, K.Carter, K.Tyler on Saravah > >#10049 > > For that matter, is Kent Carter still active? After many years (decades?) of silence, as far as jazz is concerned, Kent Carter is back and has been playing quite a bit recently. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Postmodernism (?)/ Rahsaan Roland Kirk Date: 16 Oct 1998 15:06:07 -0400 (EDT) > >Do these artists hold any regard for innovation? (You don't exactly make > this clear) > > Innovation is a slippery term. At one extreme is an artist (whose name > escapes me), who simply paint copies of Modrian paintings for exhibition (I > think I'm remembering this right). Although this seems a little extreme to > me, her "recontextualizing" was all the rage a few years back. But it's a > short step from that to Hip hop mixers or John Oswald, and then on to people > like Zorn who at least write something new in the style of ... From my possibly uninformed perspective I can't help thinking that a lot of this postmodern stuff is a result of overanalyzing or, at least, at trying to guess at the motivations of musicians (or architects or writers). For ex. on Rahsaan Roland Kirk's "Rip, Rig, and Panic" (from 1964 -?-) the first song breaks down from an agressive and then very modern jazz number into a solo stride piano solo. Another song has him doing some electronics stuff that he said was inspired by Edgar Varese w/ sirens and broken glass. He also did a lot of old ballads and Ellington stuff on other albums, and a lot of qouting from different genres and time periods in his solos. I doubt he was thinking about post-modernism or recontextualizing and I don't think DJs were thinking about it. So why assume that Zorn or some other folks are thinking about it? Is it because people think blacks aren't smart enough to be arty, or that white folks can't play non-European music without adopting some ironic or colonializing stance, or being "postmodern"? Maybe I'm missing something - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Kuehn <smokey@maui.net> Subject: Re: Spoken Word + Music Date: 16 Oct 1998 10:28:40 +0000 The original post mentioned a recording with Allen Ginsberg, so I was surprised no one mentioned Hal Wilner's projects, in particular the two Wm Burroughs projects, "Spare Ass Annie and Other Tales" & "Dead City Radio".... "Annie" is a classic, produced by Hal W & the Disposable Heros of HipHoprisy. Chilling and hillarious! -- Dan Kuehn - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Taylor McLaren <tmclaren@uoguelph.ca> Subject: Re: Postmodernism (?)/ Rahsaan Roland Kirk Date: 16 Oct 1998 17:42:48 -0400 William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> wrote: >I doubt he was thinking about post-modernism or recontextualizing and I >don't think DJs were thinking about it. So why assume that Zorn or some >other folks are thinking about it? Maybe I'm too hopelessly mired in the reality of being an English student to see otherwise, but I'm not sure how it's possible to say that any sort of DJ could be thinking about anything *other* than recontextualization when s/he goes to work. Even radio types who do nothing more than play compositions back to back can be guilty of forcing a reconsideration of a given track simply by placing alongside another to which it is somehow assumed to be related. The whole notion of turntablism (another term that I like less every time I see it, and still less every time I use it) pretty much entirely depends on recontextualization, or the question of how disparate items from a DJ's record collection can be put to use together in an interesting/novel/groovy/informative way. (Heck, there are three tracks on the new DJ Spooky album in which he explicitly says as much.) In the case of more traditional instrumentalists... well, I'm a bit more willing to debate that one. There's an obvious distinction, after all, between performing music yourself (see the recent bit about non-Jews playing Jewish music if you want to argue about validity) and playing *back* the recordings of somebody else's work. Cover songs work in much the same way, since I find it hard to believe that anybody could honestly set out to record a worthwhile cover or anything without feeling that they were bringing something unique and personal to the music in question. In either case, it's probably safe that the music signifies entirely different things to the original composer, the person doing the playbacking (*that* is an ugly non-word), and probably even the individual members of the audience. So yes, post-modernism likely relies a bit too heavily on analysis and meta-analysis, and it generally brings you to the point where you realize that you can't say anything definite about your subject matter (one of the reasons why I refuse to take any "social science" courses which aren't expressly historical at this point), but it's also a viewpoint that reflects the anxious artistic mindset ("belated" is another favourite term in some English circles) of our loosely-defined times. Speaking of cover songs, I meant to ask something about this a while back, though I don't think that I was originally going to post anything about it to this particular mailing list. About a month ago, Time Magazine ran a brief interview with Lauryn Hill (she of Fugees fame), detailing her chart-busting new record and yadda-yadda-yadda. Alongside the page or two of hype, though, there was a vaguely interesting sidebar listing what the author considered to be some of the most influential rap albums of the past twenty years or so. In the course of waxing rhapsodic over the Fugees' release, _The Score_, s/he (I forget which) made some offhand disparaging comment about the Wu-Tang Clan as being of less than critical importance to the rap scene as a whole, and it got me thinking... What little I've heard from the Fugees (all of one predictable track) struck me as being pretty much warmed-over R&B that added little or nothing to an already dippy song; the Wu-Tang Clan, on the other hand, have struck me as being more or less vital to the progress of rap for the RZA's ideas on sampling, and on building more than simple beats out of pre-existing elements (concentrating instead of evoking atmospheres and constructing entire mythologies out of cultural cliches). While I've never been terribly impressed by any of the Clan's vocal contributions to this mix, it seems as though the Clan as a whole might very well advance rap beyond the point of being a twenty-year-old exercise in rehashing the dozens and what-have-you... they might make it more than an excuse to talk about what great MCs they are, basically. Which got me thinking... what's the difference between the two? Both cover songs (even not very successful ones) and cut-and-paste collages that back up typical rap numbers pretty much represent the low end(s) of the innovation spectrum, don't they? At the same time, they can both lead to some pretty spectacular reworkings of established classics. I guess what I'm looking for here is some sort of input on why somebody would try to distinguish between the efforts artists who focus on either of these two approaches to recontextualization. Can anybody actually justify the comments made in Time, or...? Oh, and I really like _Torture Garden_. -me Is it because people think blacks >aren't smart enough to be arty, or that white folks can't play >non-European music without adopting some ironic or colonializing stance, >or being "postmodern"? > >Maybe I'm missing something > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >- > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Postmodernism (?)/ Rahsaan Roland Kirk Date: 16 Oct 1998 18:05:05 EDT In a message dated 10/16/98 5:34:21 PM, tmclaren@uoguelph.ca wrote: <<Can anybody actually justify the comments made in Time, or...?>> Having just recently completed a decade working at Time, I'd like to say that Chris Farley's music criticism (he was the one who wrote the aforementioned piece, and he does most of the pop/rock stuff for Time) doesn't deserve analysis on any level except that of "How the hell did this guy get this job anyway?". Claiming that Lauryn Hill, the Fugees and Erykah Badu are among the top 10 hip-hop records of all time is only one of his numerous stupidities. In a more recent issue, he described the new Unkle record as "You know the way you felt the first time you saw Pulp Fiction, before the hype or the backlash? Listening to this album feels like that. Very cool." Leaving aside the fact that the bulk of the hype preceded Pulp Fiction's actual release, and thus the only people who actually saw it pre-hype were media types, this Unkle record, for anyone who has been following the Mo' Wax scene for the seven or eight years it's been around, represents the commercialized end to a scene that was creatively played out for the last few years. While I understand that he's speaking to the American public and not to the Zorn-list, it doesn't excuse his lack of knowledge and musical history. oh, one more. he called PJ Harvey's _To Bring You My Love_ the single worst record of the year it was released in (1994 or 1995, not sure). huh. whew. rant over. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Postmodernism (?)/ Rahsaan Roland Kirk Date: 16 Oct 1998 15:33:56 -0700 On Fri, 16 Oct 1998 18:05:05 EDT JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote: > > oh, one more. he called PJ Harvey's _To Bring You My Love_ the single worst > record of the year it was released in (1994 or 1995, not sure). huh. I thought that qualifying the guy of stupid was harsh, but if he really said that about this PJ Harvey record, then I am willing to say that if the word "stupid" did not exist, we would have to create it specially to qualify him. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org> Subject: Meridiem Live (January) Date: 16 Oct 1998 15:47:46 -0700 MERIDIEM: Percy Howard, Bill Laswell, Fred Frith, Charles Hayward San Francisco: The Great American Music Hall Wednesday, Jan 13 Seattle: Arospace Thursday, Jan 14, New York: The Bottom Line Saturday, Jan 16. Jeff Spirer B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/ Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: oops - zorn content! Date: 16 Oct 1998 15:53:34 -0700 On Sat, 10 Oct 1998 00:19:11 +0000 patRice wrote: > > hi fellow zornsters! > > i found out from the swiss tzadik distributor that the release of jz's > "music for children" cd has been postponed for europe. they didn't know > when it is going to be available. This record is also absent from Forced Exposure's list of new releases... Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cd <cappyd@uvic.ca> Subject: Re: sean Date: 16 Oct 1998 16:17:34 -0700 I agree. I saw him live (also as opener) and was also very impressed. Very good attitude. he played a few "pop" tunes, but was not afraid to explore other sounds (e.g. very noisy distorted punk, rap). My guess is that those who were there only because of his name were quite suprised (many probably not impressed). A mention must go out to Yuka Honda for adding great energy to the set. Speaking of Sean, Yuka, and Sean's bassist Timo, what happened to that second Cibo Matto album which was apparently "in the can" almost a year ago? Are they just waiting for the end of Sean's touring? hijk wrote: > > I was not that impressed with the Sean Lennon album. However, I did see him > live opening for Sonic Youth and I was very impressed. The band was really > tight and I almost forgot that I was there to see SY. That's always the > sign of a good oppening band. > > (Julian???) > > Jeff Kent > hijk@gateway.net > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: sean Date: 16 Oct 1998 16:13:23 -0700 On Fri, 16 Oct 1998 16:17:34 -0700 cd wrote: > > bassist Timo, what happened to that second Cibo Matto album which was > apparently "in the can" almost a year ago? Are they just waiting for > the end of Sean's touring? It is planned for February 1999. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Anish Kejariwal <anishk@jps.net> Subject: interesting hip-hop ??? Date: 16 Oct 1998 17:01:39 -0700 (PDT) Sorry, for the non-zorn content, but...in light of the recent thread on post modernism and hip-hop, I was wondering if someone can give me some good hip-hop recs? I have a friend who is an avid hip-hop collector, but when he is playing stuff for me a lot of it sounds kind of simple and unintersting (ex: Fugees, KRS-1). So far, I like Del the Funky Homosapien and De La Soul. Some of Shadow's Pre-Emptive strike is really cool, but Entroducing is way too simple and boring. I also like some of the DJ stuff (like Qbert), and a couple drums n' bass albums (Amon Tobin's Permutation and Squarepusher's Port Rhombus are great! feed me wierd things is OK...some drums n' bass is way too bleak and sterile for me). So, I should like something, but I just need to figure out what...I guess I should check out some Wu-tang. If this is way off topic (and way too vague), you can just respond to me personally. [also, I can't remember who it was, but I was in the midst of working out a trade for a Rubber City tape...but I lost his e-mail address. Please contact me if you are still interested. Or, if someone else could make me a copy, I'd really appreciate it.] thanks in advance, Anish - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org> Subject: Re: interesting hip-hop ??? Date: 16 Oct 1998 17:17:42 -0700 At 05:01 PM 10/16/98 -0700, Anish Kejariwal wrote: >Sorry, for the non-zorn content, but...in light of the recent thread on >post modernism and hip-hop, I was wondering if someone can give me some >good hip-hop recs? ... The absolute best hip-hop of all time, especially for someone reading this list, is New Kingdom's _Paradise Don't Come Cheap_, sadly deleted around the time it came out by the morons at Polygram, but I see it used occasionally. Part Beefheart, part Hendrix, part insane. Maybe totally insane. Mix of live and samples, I think there is quite a bit of live guitar on it. Nothing comes close. And I say this as someone who listens to a fairly broad range of hip-hop. (The first New Kingdom is not nearly as good, although worth owning.) Jeff Spirer B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/ Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David J. Keffer" <keffer@shell.planetc.com> Subject: Fushitsusha on Victo Date: 16 Oct 1998 20:22:18 -0400 >From: FJG_Lamerikx <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> >Yesterday, I picked up...the Fushitsusha release on Victo... What is wrong with >non-Japanese Fushitsusha releases? Why don't they stick with the all-black >artwork concept? Plus, do I really need an explanation from Alan Cummings about >the style of the title printed in the inner sleeve? FWIW: I heard from Alan Cummings that neither he nor Haino approved the use of that explanation on the sleeve. Victo did that on their own. Anyway, while that quote is not essential, it hardly detracts from the album. >I also think that the music >does not stand up to any of the four Tokuma Fushitsusha releases - they more >than definitely have an edge production-wise that I miss here, and I also >missed it on the Gold Blood album (which also had lousy artwork). You only >need to compare the version of "Pathetique" featured here to that on the album >of the same name to find out why I prefer PSF and Tokuma releases. >Frankco. I think this is a matter of personal preference. The albums you cite as superior are all studio recordings. The two albums you cite as inferior are live recordings. Generally, one sacrifices some control over sound quality in exchange for the energy of a live recording. Also, I hardly think the appeal of Fushitsusha lies in the "edge production-wise". Lastly, I think the recordings widely regarded as choice Fushitsusha are live recordings, PSF 15/16 and PSF 3/4. David "Over-production is a vice. Under-production is an aesthetic." K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert L, III Swanger" <rls183@psu.edu> Subject: end of masada releases? Date: 16 Oct 1998 20:57:33 -0400 I was going through the forced exposure web site the other day and it said the masada 10 was going to the be last one of the series. can anyone on this list verify this and has zorn given any reason as to why. sorry, if this has been asked already but i'm quite new to the list and i didn't find an answer in the faq so i thought that i would ask. thanks Robert - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Arnold <david_a@efn.org> Subject: tape trading Date: 16 Oct 1998 19:59:16 -0700 (PDT) Sorry beforehand if this is not appropriate for the list. I have quite a lot of Miles Davis 70's live concerts (about 60) and I want to start collecting Zorn material - Zorn in any and all of his guises and manifestations, I haven't heard anything yet from him that did not at least intrigue me. So far all I have are several commercially-released albums and one live boot: Naked City 10/9/88 at the Spontaneous Music Festival in Quebec, from an FM broadcast, 88' on cassette, very good quality. My trade lists and requirements are at http://www.efn.org/~david_a/trading Please reply OFFLIST, thanks! david - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Anne & Dan Dellosso <adosso@desupernet.net> Subject: Music for Children Date: 16 Oct 1998 23:09:25 -0700 <HTML> <P> I found out that Music for Children is pushed back a month or more due to the cover being misprinted (the front and back covers are reversed). So John destroyed all the copies except for 25 who he gave to a friend of his to sell who i happen to know, so i guess i'll be getting my copy by mon. If anyone is interested i can give a short review once received. <P> dan <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <BR> <P>9</HTML> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Knutboy@aol.com Subject: Re: interesting hip-hop ??? Date: 16 Oct 1998 23:38:22 EDT The new Outkast album, "Aquemini", is the absolute bomb. In particular, the track "SpottieOttieDopaliscious", an amazing mix of a high school marching band mixed ala King Tubby, a killer MC and bass line. One of the most progresssive things I've heard all year, and in Hip Hop. JayZ's "Hard Knock Life" (the song, not the album) is also pretty great. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Risser Family <risser@goodnews.net> Subject: Nancarrow Date: 16 Oct 1998 22:44:50 -0400 Anyone know if anyone has done any MIDI versions if Nancarrow's stuff? = It seems like it's the obvious way to reporduce them in this day and = age. It wouldn't have the cool huffiness of the straining player piano, = but at the same time, the speed and agility of non-human playing was = what he was aiming for. In a similar vein, my 'rents got one of them new fangled player pianos = that use floppies. I tried hacking one open and making my own music, = but it wasn't so easy. In any case, I think that'd be fab and close to = what Nancarrow was trying to do, plus you have the actual mechanical = piano, not a computer simulcrum. Anyone know anyone else who's exploring these areas? Anyone know if Nancarrow ever branched out into, say, Nickolodeons? Just pondering. Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Risser Family <risser@goodnews.net> Subject: On the Subject of Zorn and Composing Date: 16 Oct 1998 22:54:09 -0400 I know this is late, but I been reading the subject of, does Zorn really = deserve the "Composer" credit or royalties considering the musicians are = improvising and doing the real "work". Aside from the obvious argument that a lot of times the improvs are = directed by Zorn's loose compositions, I think Zorn has a great talent similar to that of James Brown, George = Clinton and Miles Davis. It's not so much that they write great music = or play fantastic, although that's certainly true for all the above. = What they really have going for them is that they manage to gather = together in the same room a supernatural group of performers who click = together, share the artist's vision and end up churning out amazing tune = after amazing tune. Anyway, I think that's worth something, and it often gets overlooked. I think that's why Zorn's stuff is so great, not just because his = talents as a player and a composer, but as a... producer? Gatherer? = Something like that. Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Risser Family <risser@goodnews.net> Subject: Harmonia Mundi Date: 16 Oct 1998 22:56:27 -0400 Sort of totally off subject, although we did talk about Musique Concrete = for a while... Does anyone know where I can snag copies of the Cultures Electroniques = series on Harmonia Mundi? I've got #6 and it rules. I've heard 2 and 4 = in the past and they are serious computer music efforts as well. But I = think they're all out of print. Anyone got any clues? Please reply off list, if that's appropriate. Thansk! Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: clockwise <clockwis@mail.execpc.com> Subject: Re: interesting hip-hop ??? / Nils Petter Molvaer Date: 16 Oct 1998 22:52:56 -0500 anyone interested in jazzy hiphop with brilliant, meaningful lyrics should check out Aceyalone "A Book of Human Language". Its on a small independant label called Project Blowed Recordings. the new A Tribe Called Quest album has some great beats as well but ive never been impressed with their lyrics, and the new album as failed to change my opinion. ps - is it just me or is the Nils Petter Molvaer release "Khmer" just a poor (swedish) man's Grassy Knoll? peace clockwise At 11:38 PM 10/16/98 EDT, you wrote: >The new Outkast album, "Aquemini", is the absolute bomb. In particular, the >track "SpottieOttieDopaliscious", an amazing mix of a high school marching >band mixed ala King Tubby, a killer MC and bass line. One of the most >progresssive things I've heard all year, and in Hip Hop. JayZ's "Hard Knock >Life" (the song, not the album) is also pretty great. > >- > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Howes <mhowes@best.com> Subject: Re: interesting hip-hop ??? Date: 16 Oct 1998 21:13:15 -0700 >Sorry, for the non-zorn content, but...in light of the recent thread on >post modernism and hip-hop, I was wondering if someone can give me some >good hip-hop recs? Some of my favorite hiphop includes... Solid rhyming and interesting Latyrx SoulSides Blackalicious Dr Octagon Matabase N' Breath (most things on BOMB are solid) There are two really great comps for DJ/scratching stuff called "Return of the DJ" volumes one and two. The Invisible Scratch Pickles are the best scratchers hands down. mike mhowes@best.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joe Tait <tait@pdq.net> Subject: Good Hip-Hop Date: 16 Oct 1998 23:33:16 -0700 I would add Digable Planets and along the "acid jazz" end of hip-hop, Dj Krush, Dj Cam, Portishead, Differenz, Dj Vadim; and plenty of others. How about herbie hancock's future shock??? i think everyone rememebers the rock it video.....still does it for me :) Joe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sulacco@aol.com Subject: re: spoken word Date: 17 Oct 1998 01:59:55 EDT any of the ken nordine word jazz records are superb - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Bell Date: 17 Oct 1998 03:09:41 -0400 Sean Terwilliger wrote: > How about the upcoming > Django Bates on screwgun? http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/ssmith36/SC70007.htm available now via mail and soon in stores... Astrud Gilberto meets Bjork in a post-modern jazz lounge, that's my take. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP: Nels Cline Trio - "Sad" (following a killin' Mike Watt "opera" gig at the Knit featuring lots and lots o' Nels... plus a swell cameo by Carla Bozulich...) The Nels Cline Trio, what a great band that was... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David J. Keffer" <keffer@shell.planetc.com> Subject: David Grubbs Date: 17 Oct 1998 09:50:23 -0400 Well I suspect there are some gastr del sol fans on this list so I am going to post a review of the first post-gastr David Grubbs release, "The Thicket" on Drag City. I dug the gastr del sol records (including the first one before O'Rourke joined), the various Jim O'Rourke projects, and the David Grubbs solo instrumental album on Table of the Elements. I thought I would check "The Thicket" out despite the description I saw of it as pure, unadulterated pop. (Really I have nothing against pure, unadulterated pop, if it's good.) Plus it has Tony Conrad as a member of "the band". With so many good things going for it, how could I go wrong? Well, "The Thicket" is tepid, one notch up from bad, maybe two notches. The songs sound like rough drafts of songs that gastr del sol would have rejected. The songs are truly pop-like; you hear the beginning of a slow, bad pop song and immediately you can predict the entire progress of the song and you know you just don't want to hear the whole laborious, plodding song to its agonizingly tedious conclusion. That's my impression on this album. Anybody else find something I am missing? David "five second listen, cringe, skip to the next track" K. p.s. On rereading, this review is admittedly overly harsh. But imagine this: a song about a train where Tony Conrad gets on the violin and imitates the Doppler effect of a train approaching and receding... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: CD sale Date: 17 Oct 1998 10:33:13 -0400 I hope you guys don't hate these things... $10 a pop. I'll cover the shipping. Derek Bailey & Henry Kaiser - Wireforks: Guitar Duets (Shanachie) The Bucketheads - All In The Mind (Big Beat) FJF - Blow Horn (OkkaDisk) w/Vandermark, Gustafsson, etc. Tim Berne - Fulton Street Maul (Koch Jazz) I have the vinyl... Barre Phillips/Keiji Haino - Etchings In The Air (P.S.F.) Don Byron Quintet - No-Vibe Zone (Knitting Factory Works) -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Circle9 <caliban@ctol.net> Subject: Re: interesting hip-hop ??? Date: 17 Oct 1998 12:20:47 -0400 If you haven't checked out the first Wu-Tang (36 Chambers), you're missing out big-time. The second album is okay, but there's a lot of filler on it- there's maybe one really solid disc amongst the two-disc set. For recent stuff I really dug the Big Punisher album- his lyrics are so-so but he does have great flow and his beats are pretty slamming. The Black Eyed Peas disc also surprised me- I dug it much more than I expected to from the single. Also worth checking out is the Muggs (from Cypress Hill) solo album- "Muggs presents the Soul Assassins"- various MCs on each track, so it's a little spotty, but his beats are about as good as it gets. If it's Old School you're interested in, you can't go wrong with the first few Public Enemy ("Nation of Millions" and "Fear of a Black Planet" are both especially strong) -SG Anish Kejariwal wrote: > Sorry, for the non-zorn content, but...in light of the recent thread on > post modernism and hip-hop, I was wondering if someone can give me some > good hip-hop recs? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson <wlt4@mindspring.com> Subject: Thurston's label Date: 17 Oct 1998 18:47:29 -0400 I read a couple of article several months back about a label Thurston Moore was starting with somebody (Byron Coley?) that would specialize in reissuing rare music. Does anybody know if this has fallen by the wayside or just has yet to start up? LT Lang Thompson http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4 New at the Funhouse website: Did Elvis Steal Rock 'n' Roll?, The X-Files Movie Bites!, music reviews - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: sean Date: 17 Oct 1998 19:41:09 EDT In a message dated 10/16/98 10:10:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au writes: > Um, I'm just curious, don't ask me why... has anyone checked out Sean > Lennon's album, and if so, is it any good at all? It was recommended to me by one of the clerks at my favorite CD shoppe recently who listens to a lot of the same music as I do. I checked out the first three cuts...not bad, but nothing i'd buy at full price. spinning: Silver Apples- Beacon Remixed =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Thurston's label Date: 18 Oct 1998 00:58:13 -0400 Lang Thompson wrote: > I read a couple of article several months back about a label Thurston Moore > was starting with somebody (Byron Coley?) that would specialize in > reissuing rare music. Does anybody know if this has fallen by the wayside > or just has yet to start up? It's still happening. It's just been kinda pushed back by Thurston's other activities, including SY, other group projects and a new solo album I just read about in The Wire this evening. (Evidently he sent a brief solo guitar track to a lot of different artists, both musical and visual, inviting a "remix" - there's a review of the resulting CD as well as a news item about the gallery showing of the visual collaborations in the UK in the current issue). Anyway, the label deal also moved from Koch to the newly revived Sire Records. And yeah, Byron is the other instigator last I heard... Steve Smith ssmith36@psrynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Artur Nowak" <arno@silesia.top.pl> Subject: new Krakauer and Coleman Date: 18 Oct 1998 10:58:47 +0200 Forced Exposure has announced new Tzadik CDs, two of them are continuation of excelent CDs "Klezmer Madness" by David Krakauer and "Sephardic Tinge" by Anthony Coleman Trio. These CDs are my favourite Tzadik releases so far, I'm looking forward to hear them. Maybe someone already heard it? Just forwarding, FYI: KRAKAUER, DAVID: Klezmer, NY CD (TZ 7127). "This second CD for Tzadik pays tribute to one of the greatest clarinet soloists in jazz: pioneer Sidney Bechet. In this extended, multi-faceted suite, the Krakauer trio explores the hidden connections between Bechet and Klezmer giant Naftule Brandwein -- inspired in part by Bechet's legendary and incredibly rare performance of 'My Yiddish Momma." $13.50 SEPHARDIC TINGE: Morenica CD (TZ 7128). "Anthony Coleman has one of the most intelligent and original musical minds on the downtown scene, capable of confounding you, delighting you, making you howl with laughter or scream with pain. With his popular Sephardic Tinge project he has chosen to delight you, showcasing an unique approach to the classic piano trio. this second collection of original compositions and quirky cover tunes adds a newly-developed virtuosic edge to this already sick and twisted technique, making Morenica his ultimate statement on piano jazz, Sephardic tradition, Latin rhythms and dysfunctional harmony." $13.50 __________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak [arno@silesia.top.DEATHTOSPAMMERS.pl] www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/default.htm - Discography of Bill Frisell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nils <jacobson@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu> Subject: Re: interesting hip hop? Date: 18 Oct 1998 05:54:04 -0500 > Some of my favorite hiphop includes... > Dr Octagon If the one dr. octagon record i got is representative, i strongly disagree. it's puerile words over cheesy music. take it or leave it. tbe record i have is dr. octagonycologist. -Nils - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Beardsley <xouoxno@virtulink.com> Subject: Glenn Branca at the Knit Date: 18 Oct 1998 09:57:47 -0400 So who else went to hear/see Glenn Branca at the Knit last night? A rare appearance, really more of an ensemble than *THE BRANCA GROUP*. Maryanne Amacher on Sound Character (whatever that is), Zev on a massive side drum, Rudolph Grey on skronk guitar. Armacher and Zev dominated the ensemble sound, at times the theatre of performance almost demanded more attention than the music (verry loud at times). -- * D a v i d B e a r d s l e y * xouoxno@virtulink.com * * J u x t a p o s i t i o n E z i n e * M E L A v i r t u a l d r e a m house monitor * * http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: frisell Date: 19 Oct 1998 00:35:04 +1000 I don't want to start anything, but I'm just wondering what people think is the best Bill Frisell album. I've got a few (which I like) but I just wanted to know whether I'm missing out on anything. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: APoesia794@aol.com Subject: Thurston's label Date: 18 Oct 1998 11:46:39 EDT as far as i know it's called "father yod" and is located in western mass. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?=A1Salsa! (absolutely no Zorn content at all)?= Date: 18 Oct 1998 13:17:57 EDT ...but I figure there's more than a few here who might dig this sort of thing... Heard a really cooking salsa band last night by the name of Bio Rotmo at Columbia's (S.C.) New Brookland Tavern. This type music rarely comes to the Deep South (well, except for Atlanta...and maybe Miami...), so I thought i'd check 'em out. Not too much in the way of soloing by any one member (except for the percussionist), but the band has some great charts and a wall of sound coming from the horn section that could knock down the walls of Jericho. Suggest you check 'em out if they come to your neighborhood tavern. My feet are still moving... spinning: Sieges Even- Uneven (...and my head from too many black 'n' tans) =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Thurston's label Date: 18 Oct 1998 15:11:34 EDT In a message dated 10/18/98 11:49:08 AM Eastern Daylight Time, APoesia794@aol.com writes: > as far as i know it's called "father yod" and is located in western mass. > About a year ago I remember getting, from out of the blue, a small yellow catalog (8-10 pages) from a mailorder outfit that called themselves "Father Yod", - though I didn't remember Thurston being associated with it. The listings featured non-mainstream jazz and psych music for the most part. It also talked about a future website by the same name. I've checked on occasion to see if the site ever became active, yet always get the old "401" message. spinning: Sieges Even- Uneven =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TiggerT000@aol.com Subject: The book of heads Date: 18 Oct 1998 15:28:08 EDT hi, im a new member of the list. i have just recieved the score to book of heads from zorn and am about to start working on it/studying it. anyone else have experience with it? i'd love to hear from you. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Orchester 33 1/3 Date: 18 Oct 1998 15:51:35 EDT I just had to rave about this record, which I just finished listening to again. It's just called _Orchester 33 1/3_, on an Austrian label, Plag Dich Nicht, formerly noteworthy for releasing Jon Rose's _Techno Mit Storungen_ a year or two ago. What makes this record so interesting is the number of genres that it blurs. and not in the superficial way that so many records nowaday do. this record has stretches of everything from Mingus-inspired large combo jazz to electronic drones to surf guitar freakouts over a drum and bass groove to the closing song, which sounds like a Boredoms outtake. The band is co-led by Christof Kurzman and Christian Fennesz of Mego fame, and Michael Moser of Polwechsel is one of the band members. Peter Brotzmann guests on one track, and another is dedicated to Michael Mantler, Pharoah Sanders and the JCOA. I don't think my description is really doing this record justice, but it's probably the best new record I've heard this year, and it gives me hope for the future of music, in a world where so many genres seem to be dying and/or dead. Dutch East India is distributing it in the US, and you can get in touch directly with Plag Dich Nicht at plagdichnicht@silverserver.co.at. Anyone else heard any of the new Simon Fell releases on Bruce's Fingers? After I absorb them a bit more, I think they're going to be the subject of my next rave review. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "hijk" <hijk@gateway.net> Subject: RE: Frisell Date: 18 Oct 1998 17:34:27 -0400 I love Quartet and This Land, both on Nonesuch. I could listen to the Quartet lineup (guitar/violin/trumpet/trombone) play forever. That sound really got to me. I instantly wanted to hear them play all of my favorite standards. Jeff Kent hijk@gateway.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Eye Notation? Date: 18 Oct 1998 18:28:09 -0400 Listening to Naked City's "Heretic" for the first time, I've gotten to wondering how Zorn notated parts for Y. Eye? Does he have a set of symbols worked out? Does it say "Taz-noises 8 beats, belch 3 beats, growl 22 seconds"? Does he just indicate for Eye to do whatever he wants at certain points? Another thing that struck me was the absense of genre jump-cutting on this disc and on Absinthe. I have a hunch that, while we think of the technique as Naked City's signature sound, if we were to catalogue the various tracks and what happens in them (and no doubt some graduate student somewhere has already done this :-]) we would find that it's used much less often than we might expect. -- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: PSF Date: 18 Oct 1998 19:09:09 -0400 I hope/expect a flurry of responses on this one... What do you all consider the most absolutely essential PSF discs? I have a few (most notably the Fushitsushas) but am looking to get many more. I'm especially interested in hearing about the Kan Mikami and Kazuki Tomokawa discs... Well, what do you guys like best? -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Egan" <degan@excell.com> Subject: Re: Frisell Date: 18 Oct 1998 17:06:19 -0700 I'd like to second Jeff's recommendations; those are both wonderful discs. Also I'd add the soundtrack for Buster Keaton's "Go West". Earlier this year I went to see Bill and Joey Baron play together here in Seattle, and I've never seen two guys have more fun on stage. It was a totally delightful show. That would also be one of my favorites if it were on CD. - Dave >I love Quartet and This Land, both on Nonesuch. I could listen to the >Quartet lineup (guitar/violin/trumpet/trombone) play forever. That >sound >really got to me. I instantly wanted to hear them play all of my >favorite >standards. > >Jeff Kent - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: PSF Date: 18 Oct 1998 21:26:36 EDT In a message dated 10/18/98 7:34:31 PM, tpratt@smtc.net wrote: <<What do you all consider the most absolutely essential PSF discs?>> After a quick scan through the catalog, here goes. I haven't heard most of the Mikami and Tomokawa stuff, since what I've heard leaves me a bit cold since I don't understand Japanese. My favorites are the two Masayuki Takayanagi records, _Call In Question_ and _Live Independence_, both remarkable early seventies free-jazz blowouts. Harry Bertoia's _Unfolding_ is a classic drone piece, created by Bertoia's wind sculptures. The Toho Sara record can be loosely described as "The Third Ear Band meets Musica Transonic" but it's better than that sounds. The Acid Mothers Temple record is my favorite of the Blue Cheer-inspired axis (High Rise, Musica Transonic, Mainliner, etc.). The first Ghost record is also pretty great. And lastly, the AMM record on PSF, _From A Strange Place_, while it is one of my least played AMM records, still needs to be mentioned. back to the Yankee blowout, Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: matthew.colonnese@yale.edu (Matthew Colonnese) Subject: Re: PSF Date: 18 Oct 1998 23:52:09 -0400 I'd agree with Jon that the Takayanagi Masayuki and Toho Sara very good. I'd suggest _tokyo flashback vol 1_ as the must have non-Fushitsusha release from PSF, at least for psych guitar rock. Killer tracks from much of the labels early lineup. Keep in mind I've actually heard only something less than 10% of the labels output however. And just in case you don't know, the Ghosts are available from Drag City currently and are certainly worth the domestic price. matt ------ "Finally, a thing-a-ma-giggy that would bring people together...even if it kept them apart, spatially." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: interesting hip-hop ??? Date: 19 Oct 1998 00:22:34 EDT In a message dated 10/17/98 12:16:46 AM, you wrote: <<There are two really great comps for DJ/scratching stuff called "Return of the DJ" volumes one and two. The Invisible Scratch Pickles are the best scratchers hands down. >> The best scratching record I've heard is the new DJ Disk, _Ancient Termites_, who is indeed one of the aforementioned Pickles. The other semi-recent hip-hop record I'd recommend is the Genius/GZA record, _Liquid Swords_, which is easily my favorite of the Wu-Tang stuff, including their two group records. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: On the Subject of Zorn and Composing Date: 17 Oct 1998 14:36:09 -0400 Risser Family wrote: > I think that's why Zorn's stuff is so great, not just because his talents as a player and a composer, but as a... producer? Gatherer? Something like that. I recall that Don Byron said that Zorn's strength was not so much as a composer but as a "leader of men". I think it may have come up in the archives. -- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Howes <mhowes@best.com> Subject: Re: interesting hip-hop ??? Date: 18 Oct 1998 23:22:30 -0700 ><<There are two really great comps for DJ/scratching stuff called "Return of >the DJ" volumes one and two. >The Invisible Scratch Pickles are the best scratchers hands down. >> > >The best scratching record I've heard is the new DJ Disk, _Ancient Termites_, >who is indeed one of the aforementioned Pickles. Ahh...I just heard this...along with a comp, that was called (I think If I remember right), "Deeper Concentration" and they were both great. The solo Mix Master Mike (also of the ISP and now a perm member of the Beastie Boys) is also amazing. I've had a fun time recently alternating between the hiphop based turntablists and the other kinds of turntablists I LOVE like Yoshihide, Marclay, Milk Cult, Crawling with Tarts and Cresent. I just picked up a record by... "Techno mit Storungen" called "Ein Projekt von Jon Rose". I have never heard anything about this and don't fully understand what it is....(but I do like the music). I can never pass up any CD with Yoshihide, Marclay, or Rose on it no less this release which has all three of them. The list of "performers" (quotes because I don't understand in what capacity each plays, if at all) is amazing and large. Frank Schulte, Marclay, Yhshihide, Connie Bauer, Rose, Phil Minton, Lauren Newton, Chris Cutler, Peter Cusack, Iva Bittova (yes!), Uli Gumpert, Rudi Widerhofer, Fred Frith, Sainkho, Nick Collins (as in Nicolas Collins?) , Even Parker, Marc Ribot, Peter Hollinger, and more........ On barely a tangent, can anyone tell me anything about the "Exiles 1" release on Megaphone? It's Jon Rose, Tony Buck, and Joe Williamson. Is Megaphone still an active label? mike - who is enjoying lots of noise today...alternating between Aube's amazing release "substructural penetration 1991-95" and crazy Japanese grind/noisecore band, Gore Beyond Necropsy. PS The new The Ex album is great. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FJG_Lamerikx <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> Subject: Re: Fushitsusha on Victo Date: 19 Oct 1998 08:35:46 +0200 (MET DST) David Keffer wrote: [the new Fushitsusha disc on Victo] > FWIW: I heard from Alan Cummings that neither he nor Haino approved the > use of > that explanation on the sleeve. Victo did that on their own. > Anyway, while that quote is not essential, it hardly detracts from the album. It does in my case. What I generally find important is that the whole concept of an album holds together: music, lyrics (if any), artwork, and presentation. The PSF and Tokuma releases succeed in a big way in presenting such a concept, whereas the Victo release does not (and neither does the Gold Blood album, if only for the type font they're using to print the Japanese characters). > I think this is a matter of personal preference. The albums you cite as > superior > are all studio recordings. The two albums you cite as inferior are live > recordings. Generally, one sacrifices some control over sound quality in > exchange for the energy of a live recording. Also, I hardly think the appeal > of Fushitsusha lies in the "edge production-wise". Lastly, I think the > recordings widely regarded as choice Fushitsusha are live recordings, > PSF 15/16 and PSF 3/4. > > David "Over-production is a vice. Under-production is an aesthetic." K. I'm not in favor of over-production either. I quote Dream Theater's "Images and Words" as an example of a ridiculously over-produced album. I think if any of Fushitsusha's studio albums were over-produced, they would loose a lot of their appeal (a remark I've read in a few places about Allegorical Misunderstanding - an album I don't own so I can't comment on the truth of this statement). I don't think any of the Tokuma albums are over-produced, I just think the sound is near perfect for that kind of music. And I also think that the sound of the Tokuma releases gives them more energy then either the Gold Blood or the Victo albums. Considering the PSF albums, you're right - they also have that warmth, and depth that is necessary to make this music come out 100% right. So, it's not that I prefer studio albums over live albums (I love PSF 3/4 and PSF 15/16 to death!), I just happen to be keen on a certain sound that is achieved in the PSf and Tokuma releases, and not in the Victo release. Frankco "production doesn't matter, as long as it sounds good". - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FJG_Lamerikx <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> Subject: Re: interesting hip-hop ??? Date: 19 Oct 1998 08:39:45 +0200 (MET DST) > Some of Shadow's Pre-Emptive strike is really cool, but > Entroducing is way too simple and boring. I also like some of the DJ stuff > (like Qbert), and a couple drums n' bass albums (Amon Tobin's Permutation > and Squarepusher's Port Rhombus are great! feed me wierd things is > OK...some drums n' bass is way too bleak and sterile for me). So, I should > like something, but I just need to figure out what...I guess I should check > out some Wu-tang. Why are so many people so negative about DJ Shadow's Endtroducing? I don't think it's simple at all - considering that EVERY sound on that record is a sample. It must have been a vast undertaking to put it together. Besides my appreciation for the craft and the determination needed to do this, the music is great as well. About drum'n'bass, try Photek. In a few years time, when drum'n'bass is just that what it needs to be (an extension of the comoposer's idiom with otherwise unplayable rhythms and beats), everybody will look back at Photek as one of the very few true visionaries of electronic music. Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Techno Mit Storungen Date: 19 Oct 1998 03:37:40 EDT In a message dated 10/19/98 2:25:33 AM, mhowes@best.com wrote: << I just picked up a record by... "Techno mit Storungen" called "Ein Projekt von Jon Rose". I have never heard anything about this and don't fully understand what it is....(but I do like the music). I can never pass up any CD with Yoshihide, Marclay, or Rose on it no less this release which has all three of them. The list of "performers" (quotes because I don't understand in what capacity each plays, if at all) is amazing and large. Frank Schulte, Marclay, Yhshihide, Connie Bauer, Rose, Phil Minton, Lauren Newton, Chris Cutler, Peter Cusack, Iva Bittova (yes!), Uli Gumpert, Rudi Widerhofer, Fred Frith, Sainkho, Nick Collins (as in Nicolas Collins?) , Even Parker, Marc Ribot, Peter Hollinger, and more........>> well, since I mentioned this record earlier today in another post, I'll toss in what I know about it. it seems to be an edited version of a live performance from a Austrian festival in 1995. it's not nearly as good as one would hope from the personnel, but it's pretty interesting nevertheless. but then I'm not much of a fan of Jon Rose, although I'm sure a lot of his stuff works better live than it does on record. a record with a similar concept that I'd recommend much more highly is _Memory & Money_, performed by Les Sculpteurs De Vinyl. this has fewer performers and is under the direction of Otomo Yoshihide from a festival in Marseille in 1996. the musicians include Tom Cora, Catherine Jauniaux, and three local French DJs, DJ Rebel, DJ Sky, and Erik M. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cerato Marco <g5003725@uts.univ.trieste.it> Subject: Locus Solus Date: 19 Oct 1998 10:11:38 +0200 I'd like to have some opinion about "LOCUS SOLUS". Thank you in advance, Marco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Kuehn <smokey@maui.net> Subject: Re: Glenn Branca at the Knit Date: 18 Oct 1998 22:46:34 +0000 Hey, I saw, or sort of saw, and heard Glenn B on the knet, i mean the net. The RealAudio is a real challenge, but it serves to give us in the hinterlands a glimpse, even if through a glass darkly. And when it works and when it's good, it can be pretty good. Glenn had some interesting comments before the first show. Apparently in response to the Zorn incident (where he pulled the plug on the camera after realizing it's ALWAYS on), there's now a sign in the Main Stage dressing room that sez something to the effect "performers are advised to refrain from personal conversation onstage" ... I guess one might say music is a kind of personal conversation... He then addressed all the people squinting at that little picture on the computer screen and putting up with the poor audio (that's me)-- He said, "Get a life!" Actually, it wasn't bad, I'd never heard'im before All noise no melody, but rich and changing all the time two guitars & percussion, I think, but the picture really was bad. I did tape, tho... -- Dan Kuehn - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org> Subject: Re: On the Subject of Zorn and Composing Date: 19 Oct 1998 07:44:50 -0400 >I recall that Don Byron said that Zorn's strength was not so much as a >composer but as a "leader of men". I think it may have come up in the >archives. Yes, he said this to me at a pre-concert discussion here. The question asked was how he compared his own sweeping genre interests to those the likes of John Zorn and Bill Frisell. It's also interesting that Mr. Byron said Bill's (and Joey Baron, for that matter) interest in other genres was really brought about by Zorn, that Frisell was a fairly straight-ahead player before he met Zorn. | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | | | | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | | | | UMD school of music | | | | m-e-t-a-t-r-o-n p-r-e-s-s | | | http://www.artswire.org/comma | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Geert Buelens <buelens@uia.ua.ac.be> Subject: Jane Cortez Date: 19 Oct 1998 14:08:10 +0200 (MET DST) Is this the same person as the poet Jane Cortez? > >There is a great album that Ornette Coleman's X-wife put out and it > >also has his son Denardo on drums. Her name is Jane Cortez and it is > >wonderful stuff. > > > >-Mary - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: philz <zampino@squidco.com> Subject: Re: Shelley Hirsch, Cecil Taylor Date: 17 Oct 1998 23:10:10 -0400 Steve Smith wrote: > >If you can find "Haiku Lingo" by Hirsch and Weinstein, that's a fine one, but >it took me years to track down. I'm kind of late getting back on this one, but Hirsch and Weinstein's "Haiku Lingo" was recently reissued on rere on cd. You might want to check dmg/verge/cuneiform to see if they have a copy, it's definitely worth having! philz - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M.Ho" <mus4mth@atlas.vcu.edu> Subject: Re: The book of heads Date: 19 Oct 1998 10:15:40 EDT > > hi, im a new member of the list. i have just recieved the score to book of > heads from zorn and am about to start working on it/studying it. anyone else > have experience with it? i'd love to hear from you. When Marc Ribot performed it in Richmond, he went through the score with me after the show and Ribot basically said it dosnt make too much sense without zorn sitting with you to explain it. Do you feel the same. The score is written in a manner that can be taken with many different interpretations. Do you think that was intended or do you think zorn is adament about having his music played the way he wants it to be played? -Mary - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "hijk" <hijk@gateway.net> Subject: RE: On the Subject of Zorn and Composing Date: 19 Oct 1998 09:33:08 -0400 "a leader of men" Don't they say the same about Ellington and Zappa. jeff Kent hijk@gateway.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Audino <psaudino@interaccess.com> Subject: Re: Jane Cortez Date: 19 Oct 1998 08:22:25 -0500 (CDT) On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Geert Buelens wrote: > Is this the same person as the poet Jane Cortez? Yes. > > >There is a great album that Ornette Coleman's X-wife put out and it > > >also has his son Denardo on drums. Her name is Jane Cortez and it is > > >wonderful stuff. Paul psaudino@interaccess.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Jane Cortez Date: 19 Oct 1998 10:13:41 -0500 (CDT) The compulsive preefreader in me notes that she spells her name "Jayne", not "Jane". (Useful to know if you're doing a Web search on her name.) - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Charles Jacobus <cjacobus@avesta.com> Subject: RE: On the Subject of Zorn and Composing Date: 19 Oct 1998 09:48:11 -0400 I agree (although I don't mean to discount his talent as a composer). Zorn really brings out the best in people! And he has enough good sense to more or less let them do their thing. > -----Original Message----- > From: Joseph Zitt [SMTP:jzitt@humansystems.com] > Sent: Saturday, October 17, 1998 2:36 PM > To: Risser Family > Cc: 'zorn-list@lists.xmission.com' > Subject: Re: On the Subject of Zorn and Composing > > Risser Family wrote: > > I think that's why Zorn's stuff is so great, not just because his > talents as a player and a composer, but as a... producer? Gatherer? > Something like that. > > I recall that Don Byron said that Zorn's strength was not so much as a > composer but as a "leader of men". I think it may have come up in the > archives. > > -- > ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- > |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| > ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| > |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sulacco@aol.com Subject: Re: Locus Solus Date: 19 Oct 1998 11:38:13 EDT In a message dated 10/19/98 4:13:23, you wrote: >I'd like to have some opinion about "LOCUS SOLUS". >Thank you in advance, > > > Marco it was one of my 1st half dozen jz purchases. i had not been this excited by a jz cd since _naked city_. i enjoy it quite a bit. its just kinda hard to describe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Locus Solus Date: 19 Oct 1998 08:57:46 -0700 On Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:38:13 EDT Sulacco@aol.com wrote: > > > In a message dated 10/19/98 4:13:23, you wrote: > > >I'd like to have some opinion about "LOCUS SOLUS". > >Thank you in advance, > > > > > > Marco > > it was one of my 1st half dozen jz purchases. i had not been this excited by a > jz cd since _naked city_. i enjoy it quite a bit. its just kinda hard to > describe One of the most insane record ever made. Four different lineups producing terse (in the sense of total lack of redundancy), energetic, and dense improv with a rock edge. Not for the faint of heart. Still sounds fresh and innovative 14 years after. One of my top 20. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Gretz <KGGF@grove.iup.edu> Subject: Naked City style jumps Date: 19 Oct 1998 13:16:38 -0400 (EDT) In exmanining the Naked City output you would find that more often than not. A steady style is maintained throuought the song. Most of the self titled disc maintains whatever style is introduced at the beginning of the song. as does a good portion of torture garden, All of Leng T'che, Absinthe, Heretic, and (with the exception of the title track) Grand Guignol. So, if you like Naked City's jump-cut style. I'd say go with the Self-titled disc, Torture Garden and Radio. Most everything else though is pretty consistent. I guess it's just tunes like Speedfreaks and Snagglepuss that strike most listeners as the "naked city sound". jeff - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "hijk" <hijk@gateway.net> Subject: RE: Locus Solus Date: 19 Oct 1998 13:49:12 -0400 I love the new liner notes for this album. Zorn says, "I was totally convinced that this was going to 'hit the charts'. What charts? On Mars? I guess I've never been too in touch with the marketplace." Jeff Kent hijk@gateway.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "hijk" <hijk@gateway.net> Subject: Carl Stalling Project vol. 3? Date: 19 Oct 1998 13:51:13 -0400 Does anyone know if there will be a Vol. 3 in the Carl Stalling Project series? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: Locus Solus Date: 19 Oct 1998 13:11:02 -0500 Patrice wrote: >One of the most insane record ever made. Four different lineups producing >terse (in the sense of total lack of redundancy), energetic, and dense >improv with a rock edge. Not for the faint of heart. >Still sounds fresh and innovative 14 years after. One of my top 20. Curious. While, as Steve's fond of pointing out, your mileage may vary, I find 'Locus Solus' to be of far greater historical value than strictly musical. It was actually the first Zorn record I ever bought; I'd heard him as sideman with others, including the Palominos and Frank Lowe, but this was my first exposure to his own conception. At the time (around 1984-5?), I thought it was an interesting, potentially promising, variation on things by DNA and other "No Wave" bands, perhaps with freer improv and clearly with a strong, guiding intelligence at work. Certainly, there are many "seeds" of Zorn's later development in evidence here, but it strikes me that, shortly thereafter, due to his exposure to the wonders of the recording studio when doing the Monk and Weill tributes and/or simply a rapid maturation as an artist, he shifted gears drastically (and, IMHO, productively). I happened to listen to 'Locus Solus' last week, and still find that, to me, some pieces work pretty well (much of Sides C & D on the LP), others sound immaturely experimental, in the manner of much of his (and his cohorts') work of the late 70's and early 80's. I understand that there is a tendency for backlash against an artist who's achieved some level of success (Zorn's been around long enough for at least two of these by now, I would think) and the nostalgia for that golden pre-notoriety era (not accusing you of this, Patrice--I strongly respect your judgment....usually ;-)). I caught a healthy dollop of this genre of improv in the late 70's by many of JZ's crowd and for every instance of something gelling, there were 9 or 10 would-be avant posturings (seems a reasonable, not unexpected ratio, actually). 'Locus Solus' seems a mixed bag to me, music-wise. Worth hearing, definitely, for understanding the ground from which Zorn emerged; not earth-shaking otherwise. The difference between documentary fascination and musical depth. Just my two centavos. Others will surely pillory me. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cbarrett@neaq.org (Chris Barrett) Subject: Re: Naked City style jumps Date: 19 Oct 1998 14:22:47 -0400 At 1:16 PM 10/19/98, Jeff Gretz wrote: > I guess it's just tunes like Speedfreaks and Snagglepuss that strike >most listeners as the "naked city > sound". It's funny (and I know in the past we've had simliar threads to what I'm about to write), but even though those are the tunes that most people seem to dig Naked City for, they tend to be my least favorite Naked City tunes to actually listen to. I wonder how many people (and I know many of them are here) can actually put on Torture Garden and listen to it all the way through after already hearing it once or more......... just my 2 cents more -Chris - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sulacco@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Naked City style jumps Date: 19 Oct 1998 14:30:07 EDT In a message dated 10/19/98 14:25:17, you wrote: >I wonder how many people (and I know many of them are here) can actually >put on Torture Garden and listen to it all the way through after already >hearing it once or more......... if we're taking a poll, count me as one who listens to torture garden all the way through rather frequently.. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Rath <fripp@ibm.net> Subject: Re: Naked City style jumps Date: 19 Oct 1998 13:39:37 -0500 At 02:22 PM 10/19/98 -0400, you wrote: > >I wonder how many people (and I know many of them are here) can actually >put on Torture Garden and listen to it all the way through after already >hearing it once or more......... > I for one listen to it quite often. I've found that the first time you listen to the songs on Torture Garden you are overwhelmed by the force of them. The more you listen to them, though, the more you can hear the actual nuances of the songs. I find now that I prefer to listen to it all the way through, as one complete piece. This is why I have a hard time listening to the last third of Grand Guignol - it's missing some of the songs which makes the listening experience incomplete. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Re: Naked City style jumps Date: 19 Oct 1998 14:48:53 -0400 At 02:22 PM 10/19/98 -0400, Chris Barrett wrote: >I wonder how many people (and I know many of them are here) can actually >put on Torture Garden and listen to it all the way through after already >hearing it once or more......... I listen to the first NC album the most often, as it has a large variety of different kinds of music, from the thrash to the movie themes, etc. Next, I listen to Absinthe, mostly because I'm listening more and more to drones and electroacoustic improv (like Morphogenesis or the recent Parker EA ensemble), and Absinthe seems to fit into that category. Periodically I listen to all the NC albums in rapid succession, just to remind myself what a great body of work it is as a whole (except for Leng T'che, which is just too difficult to get through). -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers -- Pablo Picasso - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Tors <jtors@organic.com> Subject: | edward ZEIZEL | Date: 19 Oct 1998 15:11:05 -0400 I am trying to regain electronic contact with said person, please ignore if not applicable. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: Naked City style jumps Date: 19 Oct 1998 14:56:55 -0500 Caleb: >(except for Leng T'che, which is just too difficult to get through). Arrggh! My favorite NC piece! One of my very favorite JZ pieces, too--aims for a particular, if none too pleasant, target, nails it to the wall and sustains. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Tors <jtors@organic.com> Subject: winter winter Date: 19 Oct 1998 15:28:16 -0400 Does Winter Winter have a web info page? I want to find out about where they came from. JT - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Hikaru Hayashi Date: 19 Oct 1998 13:42:02 -0500 (non-Zorn content, but I'd be amazed if JZ wasn't aware of the movie and soundtracked referenced below) Rented and viewed the Japanese movie 'Onibaba' this weekend, a wonderful, brutal work from 1964 (directed by Kaneto Shindo). What there is of a score is largely confined to the opening credits, but it consists of a startling, fine free jazz piece (tenor, piano, bass and drums, I think) that would stack up well with what was going on in the US at the time. Doubly striking in that the movie's story takes place during an undefined but apparently pre-European contact era. The score is credited to one Hikaru Hayashi. Anyone know anything about this guy? A quick Alta Vista search garnered some mention of classically oriented pieces by him, but no listing of recordings or of any jazz-oriented involvement. Thanks. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Tors <jtors@organic.com> Subject: tzadik site Date: 19 Oct 1998 15:45:49 -0400 I always find myself disappointed with the organization/functionality of this site. Since JZ does not play at the knit anymore, he should break away from knitmedia and have someone host/maintain who will do the job correctly. Am I alone in my observations about the Tzadik site? It could still be enigmatic, just more functional. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Duricko <jad5657@is4.nyu.edu> Subject: Re: Naked City style jumps Date: 19 Oct 1998 16:23:45 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Chris Barrett wrote: > I wonder how many people (and I know many of them are here) can actually > put on Torture Garden and listen to it all the way through after already > hearing it once or more......... Funny you should mention that, as I was just having this exact same conversation the other day with one of my friends. Yes, I would be included in the group who listens to it all the way through, but the other way I listen to it is with the shuffle as it remains to this day the only album I listen to where I will actually do that. On most other recordings I own, I would consider that heresy, but Torture Garden just screams to be meddled with. And that actually plays a large role in why I do listen to it so often. Nyah, Jeff "Kick the bagel! Kick it! KICK IT!!!" http://pages.nyu.edu/~jad5657 ICQ#3883353 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vlad-Drac@webtv.net (Theo Klaase) Subject: Making music Date: 19 Oct 1998 18:07:32 -0500 (CDT) I think Zorn has the ultimate ability to find out what a musician is really about musically and build a composition that showcases and high-lights that special ability that is usually unique to that particular musician. How's that for a run-on sentence? }Theodorus-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org> Subject: Re: Re: Naked City style jumps Date: 19 Oct 1998 20:10:34 -0400 >I wonder how many people (and I know many of them are here) can actually >put on Torture Garden and listen to it all the way through after already >hearing it once or more......... Torture Garden was my first Zorn CD, though not the first Zorn I had heard. And I have to admit, I used to listen to it quite a lot back then - especially when staying up late in the computer lab at school (alone) doing work for deadlines. In fact, I'd play it pretty loud. | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | | | | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | | | | UMD school of music | | | | m-e-t-a-t-r-o-n p-r-e-s-s | | | http://www.artswire.org/comma | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: djp6@po.CWRU.Edu (David J. Polak) Subject: Re: Naked City style jumps Date: 19 Oct 1998 20:55:04 -0400 (EDT) Reply to message from mrd@artswire.org of Mon, 19 Oct > >Torture Garden was my first Zorn CD, though not the first Zorn I had heard. >And I have to admit, I used to listen to it quite a lot back then - >especially when staying up late in the computer lab at school (alone) doing >work for deadlines. In fact, I'd play it pretty loud. > I will listen to TG on endless repeat when I'm in the mood. It is the ultimate album to waken up a dead party. It never fails to shock and/or nauseate somebody. Another fun way to listen to it is on vinyl at 33 1/3 RPMs. It was pressed at 45 RPM and you get a slightly slower, longer, but still great album at 33 1/3. If you have it on vinyl, try it at least once. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cbwdeluxe1@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Naked City style jumps Date: 19 Oct 1998 21:58:41 EDT >David J. Polak wrote: It never fails to shock and/or nauseate >somebody. a friend once told me that he first heard kristallnacht on public radio in NYC, during which they interupted it, saying they could not play the track that should follow as it was known to make people physically ill. now i know the story about the broadcast is true, but is the statement? i never know if this and recounts of japanese musicians working with tonal experiments to make the listeners loose certain bodily controls are true or just high brow urban myths. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Beardsley <xouoxno@virtulink.com> Subject: Re: Glenn Branca at the Knit Date: 19 Oct 1998 22:01:45 -0400 Dan Kuehn <smokey@maui.net> writes: >Glenn had some interesting comments before the first show. Apparently >in response to the Zorn incident (where he pulled the plug on the camera >after realizing it's ALWAYS on), there's now a sign in the Main Stage >dressing room that sez something to the effect "performers are advised >to refrain from personal conversation onstage" ... I guess one might >say music is a kind of personal conversation... > >He then addressed all the people squinting at that little picture on the >computer screen and putting up with the poor audio (that's me)-- He >said, "Get a life!" That wasn't Glenn. That was Zev. -- * D a v i d B e a r d s l e y * xouoxno@virtulink.com * * J u x t a p o s i t i o n E z i n e * M E L A v i r t u a l d r e a m house monitor * * http://www.virtulink.com/immp/lookhere.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org> Subject: Re: Re: Naked City style jumps Date: 19 Oct 1998 22:19:54 -0400 (EDT) > a friend once told me that he first heard kristallnacht on public radio in > NYC, during which they interupted it, saying they could not play the track > that should follow as it was known to make people physically ill. now i know > the story about the broadcast is true, but is the statement? It's related to the fact that the sounds used in that particular section of Kristalnacht are extremely shrill frequencies, so shrill that they have the possibility of damaging a human eardrum; the physically ill part i'm not sure of, but it could be that people's equilibrium could be screwed up by such high frequencies. There is a warning in the CD liner notes to this effect as well. | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | | | | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | | | | UMD school of music | | | | m-e-t-a-t-r-o-n p-r-e-s-s | | | http://www.artswire.org/comma | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Locus Solus/ Torture Garden Date: 19 Oct 1998 22:52:06 -0400 (EDT) I've listened to Torture Garden almost a hundred times and still counting. Actually I think its easier to listen to than the S/T Naked City b/c the sound is more consistent. It does have the effect of making just about every thing seem tame in comparison. Locus Solus is also a favorite, although I don't listen to it quite as much because it demands so much attention. It is insane, like Patrice said. I especially like the ones w/ Horvitz/Zorn/Mori and Blegvad/Marclay/Zorn. I see this one used as much as any other Zorn CD so you could probably get it that way... To me it has a much higher enjoyability to historical significance ratio than the Parachute Years, Classic Guide..., and Cobra. Just another opinion. WY - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: gsg@juno.com (Geoff S Gersh) Subject: re:eye notation Date: 19 Oct 1998 23:04:26 -0400 >Listening to Naked City's "Heretic" for the first time, I've gotten to >wondering how Zorn notated parts for Y. Eye? Does he have a set of >symbols worked out? Does it say "Taz-noises 8 beats, belch 3 beats, >growl 22 seconds"? Does he just indicate for Eye to do whatever he wants >at certain points? i think what they do on that album is something called....improvising?? Zorn's been known to do that every now and then..... ;) ___________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson <wlt4@mindspring.com> Subject: Portsmouth Sinfonia Date: 19 Oct 1998 23:05:09 -0400 Does anybody know if any of their albums have been released on CD? Lang Thompson http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4 New at the Funhouse website: Did Elvis Steal Rock 'n' Roll?, The X-Files Movie Bites!, music reviews - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org> Subject: re:eye notation Date: 19 Oct 1998 23:22:44 -0400 (EDT) > i think what they do on that album is something called....improvising?? > Zorn's been known to do that every now and then..... Yes, but a lot of what Zorn did with Naked City was highly structured - I think that's what Joe is getting at - how Y. Eye's stuff was structured in relation to everyone else. :) | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | | | | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | | | | UMD school of music | | | | m-e-t-a-t-r-o-n p-r-e-s-s | | | http://www.artswire.org/comma | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: eye notation Date: 19 Oct 1998 23:36:11 -0400 Geoff S Gersh wrote: > i think what they do on that album is something called....improvising?? > Zorn's been known to do that every now and then..... *grin* Well, yes... but since Naked City was known to have some pretty knotty charts, I would be surprised if one player only participated on total-improv material. Come to think of it, he vocalizes on, at least, the bootleg-video Leng T'che (I no longer have the CD -- must get another), and I know that one's at least partially charted... -- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com> Subject: re:eye notation Date: 19 Oct 1998 21:28:27 -0700 (PDT) On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Matthew Ross Davis wrote: > Yes, but a lot of what Zorn did with Naked City was highly structured - I > think that's what Joe is getting at - how Y. Eye's stuff was structured in > relation to everyone else. :) in interviews, Eye has always maintained he was improvising. Zorn confirms this in an interview in Browbeat. hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Landon Thorpe" <landocal@mail.utexas.edu> Subject: RE: David Grubbs Date: 20 Oct 1998 00:51:05 -0500 > Well, "The Thicket" is tepid, one notch up from bad, maybe two notches. > The songs sound like rough drafts of songs that gastr > del sol would have rejected. The songs are truly pop-like; > you hear the beginning of a slow, bad pop song and immediately > you can predict the entire progress of the song and you know > you just don't want to hear the whole laborious, plodding > song to its agonizingly tedious conclusion. That's my > impression on this album. Anybody else find something I am > missing? > Another late post . . . As a (and I guess the only other, on this list, at least) Gastr-Grubbs-O'Rourkeophile, I can sympathize with your review of _The Thicket_. It hasn't had much staying power with me, but this could be because I just haven't listened to it enough. Some of the song ideas are half-baked and half-executed, and it is a shame, because the album has going for it quite a bit in the departments of atmosphere and charm. I might hesitate to call this pure, unadulterated pop. While pop music often has a kind of pseudo-sensibility about it (maybe kind of an urban-smartness, but I've been listening to a lot of Talking Heads lately), this release seems to have its roots in something more along the lines of country and folk, which lends to the aforementioned charm. Viewed from this frame of reference, where expectations aren't exactly for pop, I like this album though the above shortcomings still exist. One special note, though. I'm not a Tony Conrad fan, and I'm not trying to stir any Conrad controversy the likes of this list has seen. But on this album, I really dig his playing. While it occasionally unearths some hoary cliches (?, I'm pretty tired), Conrad has absolutely the thickest, fattest, most tangible violin sound I've ever heard. It is as if Conrad's violin is just bigger than anyone else's, and he scrapes out a sound that makes the strings positively bleed. I know this is basically what he does on most of his releases, but I've never felt such a connection to it. It has always been a good deal more abstract (a la "Japanese Room at La Pagode" w/ Gastr and _Slapping Pythagoras_). Landon Thorpe (who was recently floored by Kaiser/O'Rourke's _Tomorrow knows where you live_; how can two guitars and no overdubs make these kind of sounds?) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FJG_Lamerikx <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Naked City style jumps Date: 20 Oct 1998 08:44:44 +0200 (MET DST) Brian replied to Caleb: > >(except for Leng T'che, which is just too difficult to get through). > > Arrggh! My favorite NC piece! One of my very favorite JZ pieces, > too--aims for a particular, if none too pleasant, target, nails it to > the wall and sustains. It has been my favorite piece for a while, although that title now goes to the much underrated Grand Guignol. Leng Tch'e is monumental in its slowness and heaviness. When Yamatsuka Eye finally starts screaming after 15 minutes, you can almost feel the agony that the victim on the cover must have gone through. Also, I think it is necessary that this song lasts 30 minutes - it just needs that amount of time for its monstrous development. Do any of you who are familiar with Faith No More's last album think that the song Pristina sounds an awful lot like a miniature version of Leng Tch'e ? Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: bobonic@westol.com (Adam MacGregor) Subject: Why Does Zorn no longer play at the KF... Date: 20 Oct 1998 02:52:33 -0400 : Since JZ does not play at the knit anymore, he should break away : from knitmedia and have someone host/maintain who will do the job : correctly. well, the subject line sez it all... why doesn't he play there anymore? You New Yawkers oughta know about this by virtue of proximity anyway... off to drink scotch & v-8 and write about yough school board proceedings... --adam - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "m. rizzi" <rizzi@netcom.com> Subject: Re: tzadik site Date: 19 Oct 1998 23:53:15 -0700 (PDT) Jason Tors, demi-God and Icon sez: >I always find myself disappointed with the organization/functionality of >this site. I'm curious, in your opinion what are the problems and how do you think they should be solved? >Since JZ does not play at the knit anymore, he should break away >from knitmedia and have someone host/maintain who will do the job >correctly. I understand the hosting/maintenance will be changing soon. mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "John Dikeman" <shangohammy@hotmail.com> Subject: Another Avant-Garde list Date: 09 Oct 1998 14:45:38 PDT Allright, I started an Avant-Garde jazz list, mainly for the guys on Trane's list, were it isn't so free to talk about people other than the actual subject. However, i thought some of you might be interested in being on another free jazz list. Plus, we need more people. Here's the URL: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/Avant-Garde Thanks john dikeman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: gsg@juno.com (Geoff S Gersh) Subject: V. Golia Date: 19 Oct 1998 23:11:19 -0400 Straylight Dialogues w/ Vinny Golia Monday, October 26, 1998 - 9&11pm. $8.00 Alterknit Theater, Knitting Factory, 74 Leonard Street info 212.219.3006 The ambient, avant world trio Straylight gets a West Coast visit from the internationally acclaimed composer/bandleader Vinny Golia (woodwinds), whose improvisations reflect the rich heritage of jazz, contemporary classical, and world music. Accomplished on over twenty different woodwinds and ethnic aerophones, Golia joins Straylight's members Jason Finkelman (berimbau, riti, percussion), Geoff Gersh (guitar), and Charles Cohen (Buchla music easel) alone and in collaboration. Upcoming: Monday, November 30 - w/ Bill Cole Monday, December 28 - w/ Steve Gorn & John Wieczorek - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Cerato Marco <g5003725@uts.univ.trieste.it> Subject: Re: Naked City stile jumps Date: 20 Oct 1998 10:09:57 +0200 >I wonder how many people (and I know many of them are here) can actually >put on Torture Garden and listen to it all the way through after already >hearing it once or more......... Hey, man! You have to try COBRA or THE CLASSIC GUIDE TO STRATEGY! THESE are very hard to listen all the way throught! :) Bye, Marco - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marcin.Witkowski@wor.tvp.com.pl Subject: To all traders Date: 20 Oct 1998 11:09:09 +0200 > Hello all good traders, > I've just started my WEB pages with many Zorn related live items at: > http://witkowski.tvp.com.pl If you want to trade do not hesitate CONTACT ME. Marcin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mayke Nas <mayke@xs4all.nl> Subject: Scores/materials for performance Date: 20 Oct 1998 13:27:20 +0100 With a Dutch Ensemble for contemporary classical music we would like to do a whole John Zorn-program next year. Could anyone tell me where to get scores of Zorns chamber music (Carny, Music for Children etc.)? And because we also like to improvise a lot, we want to play some masada- and game-pieces as well. Does someone know how these pieces work exactly and where to find the written materials used to perform them? In the FAQ about Zorn, I read that the game-pieces are characterized by 'the complete absence of any notated musical notes of any kind'. But since there are many different Game-pieces, SOMETHING must be notated for the prompter to use as direction, or isn't it? Mayke Nas - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Naked City style jumps Date: 20 Oct 1998 22:03:58 +1000 > Do any of you who are familiar with Faith No More's last album think that the > song Pristina sounds an awful lot like a miniature version of Leng Tch'e ? Yes, that's what I thought the first time I listened to that cd. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Scores/materials for performance Date: 20 Oct 1998 22:10:34 +1000 > And because we also like to improvise a lot, we want to play some masada- > and game-pieces as well. Does someone know how these pieces work exactly > and where to find the written materials used to perform them? I can tell you about Masada because I've played a couple of the tunes myself. Basically most of them are like jazz standards (play the main tune or "head" and then solo over that structure for a while, then play the head again), but there's some that are a bit more complex, but it's easy enough to figure out what's going on if you listen to them a couple of times. As far as notation goes, they should be simple enough to transcribe yourself, but maybe books are available...? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stefan Verstraeten <stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be> Subject: New Buckethead CD Date: 20 Oct 1998 14:35:16 +0100 Hi, I noticed the new cd by Buckethead (Cobra Strike) Does anyone know the recordlabel or -even better- does someone know how the album sounds like, who plays on it, ... -- Stefan Verstraeten NP Ruins: Symphonica (imagine King Krimson on speed) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Dumitrescu material online Date: 20 Oct 1998 08:42:35 -0400 A while back, various people were asking about online material for the Rumanian composer Iancu Dumitrescu. Here's a URL to a review of one of his CDs, along with a number of Scelsi CDs. It's part of an online magazine, LaFolia, serving the contemporary classical community. http://www.lafolia.com/dumi.htm -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers -- Pablo Picasso - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "hijk" <hijk@gateway.net> Subject: RE: winter winter Date: 20 Oct 1998 08:43:24 -0400 The short version is that Winter & Winter formed out of the dust of JMT, Stefan Winter's excellent but ill fated label based in Germany. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "hijk" <hijk@gateway.net> Subject: RE: Eye Notation Date: 20 Oct 1998 08:50:03 -0400 The times that I've seen NC live, Zorn would point dramatically at Eye and he would start "doing his thing." Zorn would also cut him off at the "proper" point. It also sounds similar to the Book of Heads notation in that Zorn was constantly checking on Eye and the notecards on his stand to make sure he knew what was going on. Jeff Kent hijk@gateway.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M.Ho" <mus4mth@atlas.vcu.edu> Subject: ackchote Date: 20 Oct 1998 9:26:45 EDT Can someone describe the Ackchote/Ribot/Chadbourne album Lust Corner for me? Thanks, Mary - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Tors <jtors@organic.com> Subject: Re: tzadik site Date: 20 Oct 1998 10:13:34 -0400 constructive comments.. I think my problem has to do more with the hosting/maint end of the site. Design-wise I think it is clean and great use of html text for graphical supliments. On the homepage the arrangement of the main links could be thought out a little better. A suggestion would be to include all areas in two lines instead of two and a quarter, the frames should not be a problem in this alteration. Get rid of the second generation bar at the bottom of the homepage, a strip of black (or dark green) one pixel would be much more elegant. On the sub pages the only thing I would suggest is try and work out an anti-frame solution, it would make the site faster and better. The artist search page was annoying at first because of all the names, after looking at it for a while, and realizing the letter nav on the left, I think it serves as a good html visual effect. In the same breath, the new and notes page does this same thing, but it does not help the viewer with a left hand alpha category. Finding out what is going on in zorn land should be a little easier. Are there any unofficial JZ sites with pictures of the man from the past? I like looking at pictures of JZ with short hair. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FJG_Lamerikx <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> Subject: Re: interesting hip-hop ??? Date: 20 Oct 1998 16:10:38 +0200 (MET DST) In reply to Anish: > entroducing is impressive perhaps in terms of the time commitment, but > other than that the album just hits me as being overwhelmingly simple. > Very simple beats and very, very simple song structures. I just get bored > listening to the album. I liked Entroducing until I heard songs like what > does your soul look like (part 2) and influx (an amazing song), both of > which I find to be of far superior quality. But, perhaps Shadow just > doesn't impress me that much. The only songs I really like are the two > songs above, midnight in a perfect world, organ donor, and a few others. The song structures may be simple, but I guess that wasn't what DJ Shadow was after - I think he earns some credit for making completely new music while STRICTLY using samples. Then again, maybe a lot of other people have done it before him... You're right about In Flux and What Does Your Soul... - those tracks ARE superior to most of the material that made it onto the album. I haven't heard his work with U.N.K.L.E., but it receives varying reviews. I know I didn't like one bit of the 24-minute remix that Q-Bert did of Shadow's material. > I've heard of Photek a lot. any album that you can recommend in > particular? I'm looking for some drums n' bass that has a strong sense of > a song structure in which crazy d n' b beats exist, but only to enhance the > song...not as the sole purpose of the song. If that makes any sense at > all...I'm guessing that's what you meant when you said: " an extension of > the comoposer's idiom with otherwise unplayable rhythms and beats." Photek has made a transgression from "intelligent" jungle as it became known (the style advocated by the likes of LTJ Bukem) to more and more sparse, minimal, mathematical material. I would say his pinnacle is the U.F.O. 12" released on his own Photek label. But, everything he has released starting with the Seven Samurai 12" (which was the fifth on his Photek label) is absolutely brilliant. This includes his much-acclaimed Modus Operandi album - though that album is best where it strays away the furthest from drum'n'bass. He has just released a sampler of early tracks, with some remixes and two new tracks; haven't heard it yet, but I suggest you listen to it since it may give a good overview of the development he has made. Plus, never neglect any Photek 12"-es, since he puts as much effort into the B-sides as into the main tracks (Photek is known to spend upwards of a month, 10 hours a day, on each of his tracks). > Squarepusher's Port Rhombus and Amon Tobin's Permuations both fit this > category perfectly in my mind. Squrepusher's vic acid does not. Also, for > some reason, I think Feed Me weird things is just OK. Maybe I'm looking > for something that isn't too electronic-ish or techno-ish and something not > so bleak/sterile... I am completely fed up with the drill'n'bass style advocated by the likes of Squarepusher. Whereas he is probably the most out-there drum programmer on the planet, his tracks tend to be the modern-day equivalent of the point where jazz-fusion went all wrong in the seventies. He is a brilliant programmer, but he lacks the style and the restraint that Photek is quickly becoming a master of. What strikes me is that most people on the Zorn list (and most people who write for The Wire) seem to be completely enamoured with this drill'n'bass style, while largely neglecting other areas of drum'n'bass. I was also told that the Dom & Roland album is very good. I know he has done some extremely cool tracks in the past, such as his classic "Quadrant Six" track which he did with Optical. Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org> Subject: Re: New Buckethead CD Date: 20 Oct 1998 07:26:54 -0700 At 02:35 PM 10/20/98 +0100, Stefan Verstraeten wrote: >Hi, > >I noticed the new cd by Buckethead (Cobra Strike) >Does anyone know the recordlabel or -even better- does someone know how >the album sounds like, who plays on it, ... I just posted on this on the Laswell list. I will put the information at the web site in the next few days. It will be on Ion. Review coming soon, I hope. Jeff Spirer B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/ Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be> Subject: Re: interesting hip-hop ??? Date: 20 Oct 1998 16:41:10 +0200 > I was also told that the Dom & Roland album is very good. I know he has done > some extremely cool tracks in the past, such as his classic "Quadrant Six" > track which he did with Optical. Why not try the new "Mysteries of Funk" by Grooverider (also with Optical as engineer). Seventies Miles Davis-fusion (dark, no Squarepusher fender rhodes mellowness) with killer bass and twisted beats. Drum'n'Bass record of the year (I admit I haven't heard the new Photek yet) YVes - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Spoken Word Date: 20 Oct 1998 11:50:21 -0400 (EDT) It is (was) an LP on Bethlehem, later reissued with a more palatable title "Scenes", I think on Charley/Affinity in the U.K. I've seen it under the original title on CD. Basically it's the same band as on Mingus' other Bethlehem session, "East Coasting", but with Horaco Parlan on piano instead of Bill Evans. Only the title track is spoken word, the rest is fine, swinging, rootsy Mingus music from his strongest period. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Fri, 16 Oct 1998, Jason Tors wrote: > > >"Scenes In The City" read by actor Melvin Stewart but written by Charles > >Mingus for his Bethlehem session which was originally called something > >like "An Exploration of Jazz and Poetry by Charles Mingus". > > I have never heard of this, was it a recording or a live performance? > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Moffett <fkmoffet@erols.com> Subject: Re: Ill from music Date: 20 Oct 1998 14:37:47 -0400 i never know if > this and recounts of japanese musicians working with tonal experiments to make > the listeners loose certain bodily controls are true or just high brow urban > myths. > > - I don't know about japanese musicians, but I remember from my studio classes in college watching a video about a professor at Harvard doing studies of the effects of extreme high and low frequencies. I specifically remember him saying extreme low end causes the loss of bowel control, because I ended up stealing that tidbit for a short story. I also remember, though, that the average speaker system would be incapable of reproducing the tones. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: nils <jacobson@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu> Subject: Re: Kristallnacht Date: 20 Oct 1998 15:37:45 +0100 > > a friend once told me that he first heard kristallnacht on public radio in > > NYC, during which they interupted it, saying they could not play the track > > that should follow as it was known to make people physically ill. now i know > > the story about the broadcast is true, but is the statement? > > It's related to the fact that the sounds used in that particular section > of Kristalnacht are extremely shrill frequencies, so shrill that they have > the possibility of damaging a human eardrum; the physically ill part i'm > not sure of, but it could be that people's equilibrium could be screwed > up by such high frequencies. There is a warning in the CD liner notes to > this effect as well. There's a scientific term for this effect. Horseshit. If you want to visit the archives, this topic has been covered already. The basic skinny on ear damage is that any frequency can be damaging to the ears if the levels are high enough. Breaking glass is kind of annoying but it's not going to hurt anyone who didn't read the liner notes unless the stereo's cranked. On the subject of Torture Garden and noise-listening stamina, I think the harshest listening I've done in a while was Derek Bailey's Sign of Four. If you can get through those three discs without ripping your head off, congratulations. -Nils - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Braxton/Gillmor Date: 20 Oct 1998 15:29:24 -0500 Has anyone heard the Leo release by Braxton and Stewart Gillmor, '14 Compositions (Traditional)'? As opposed to AB's usual 'Standards', these pieces are apparently older early jazz and blues songs. Any opinions? I'm not even sure what instrument Gillmor plays, though I'd assume it's piano given the nature of the tunes. AB plays, among his normal assortment, some tenor and bass sax herein. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: Braxton/Gillmor Date: 20 Oct 1998 15:57:14 -0500 I wrote: >Any opinions? I'm not even sure what instrument Gillmor plays, >though I'd assume it's piano given the nature of the tunes. Shortly after posting, I found a web page listing Tri-Centric performers; Gillmor, a professor of History at Wesleyan, is listed as a "brass doubler" as well as founder of the Nutmeg Fox-Trot Jazz Orchestra (!). He's referred to as having "mediocre chops but a good attitude". That's what it says. I'm still intrigued. B. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Re: Braxton/Gillmor Date: 20 Oct 1998 15:14:33 -0500 At 3:29 PM -0500 10/20/98, brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > AB plays, among his > normal assortment, some tenor and bass sax herein. Ah, there's the tenor sax... Dan Hewins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: Re: Kristallnacht Date: 20 Oct 1998 16:37:07 EDT In a message dated 98-10-20 15:44:20 EDT, jacobson@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu writes: << On the subject of Torture Garden and noise-listening stamina, I think the harshest listening I've done in a while was Derek Bailey's Sign of Four. >> I'd have to second this.....I couldn't make it through the first disc alone. Dale. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: Kristallnacht Date: 20 Oct 1998 16:41:08 -0500 nils wrote: << <On the subject of Torture Garden and noise-listening stamina, I think the <harshest <listening I've done in a while was Derek Bailey's Sign of Four. >> Dale responded: >I'd have to second this.....I couldn't make it through the first disc alone. Yeah, but is this because of the noise factor or Metheny's Look-Ma-I-can-play-as-abrasively-as-Derek-and-not-bother-to-listen grandstanding attitude? If it's the latter, I'm with you. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Locus Solus Date: 20 Oct 1998 14:16:15 -0700 On Mon, 19 Oct 98 13:11:02 -0500 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > > >Still sounds fresh and innovative 14 years after. One of my top 20. > > Curious. While, as Steve's fond of pointing out, your mileage may > vary, I find 'Locus Solus' to be of far greater historical value than > strictly musical. It was actually the first Zorn record I ever bought; LOCUS SOLUS is the only document of Zorn's attempt to do free improv (at least his form of) with some rock elements. I guess Zorn might have agreed with you because it is not only the first, it is also the last. My feeling is that LOCUS SOLUS was developping something new in Zorn's already extended palette. I would have liked to hear more about that direction. For me it is more than just history and documentation of some obscure corner of an artist that I like a lot, it is a record that I put and put again on my turntable (something I do not do with, for example, ARCHERY, POOL, etc). It works in spite of its weaknesses. Why? Maybe simply because nothing like that was done before and that the weaknesses that you cited are only, to me, a problem with genres of music that have been played ad nauseum (something that never happened with LOCUS SOLUS). Maybe LOCUS SOLUS was lucky to die without filiation, and as such avoided the embarrassement of repeating itself. We will never know. Does it mean that it is perfect? I won't go so far and I think that I understand some of your criticisms. This is maybe why I used "fresh" in my description: the music was not jaded and was full of promisses. The first lineup is maybe the one that I like the least. But I love the other ones (I am a sucker for Arto). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Taylor McLaren <tmclaren@uoguelph.ca> Subject: Re: interesting hip-hop ??? Date: 20 Oct 1998 17:58:24 -0400 Der Francko wrote: [on Photek] >He has just released a sampler of early tracks, with some remixes and two >new tracks; haven't heard it yet, but I suggest you listen to it since it >may give a good overview of the development he has made. _Form & Function_ serves nicely as an introduction to Parkes' style and does give one a sense of how his work has changed over time by way of including the original versions of "Rings Around Saturn", "UFO" and "The Seven Samurai"; unfortunately, it also includes a bunch of recent (I think) remixes of this same material at the beginning of the disc which make for a good forty-five of same-sounding drudgery. While I absolutely love his clinical approach to rhythm, this is definitely a release that I can't listen to all the way through... I'd recommend that prospective listeners start out with just about any 12" that he has released (I'm partial to "The Hidden Camera", personally... conveniently and cheaply available on CD) and maybe his more-diverse-than-usual _Modus Operandi_ before trying to slog through almost eighty minutes of one set of drum sounds. [on Squarepusher] >Whereas he is probably the most out-there drum programmer on >the planet, his tracks tend to be the modern-day equivalent of the point where >jazz-fusion went all wrong in the seventies. ...and here I haven't heard the album in question yet, but his latest effort, _Music Is Rotted One Note_, is supposed to be two giant steps away from the drill 'n' bass routine and a nice piece of work as far as real instruments go. And heck, if somebody hasn't heard anything from the drill crowd, they could do a whole lot worse than to spend five bucks on a used copy of _Big Loada_... Hip-hop-wise, I finally caved in to peer pressure and bought a pair of Public Enemy albums this past weekend, and I can't recommend them enough. Indeed, the opening of _It Takes a Nation of Millions..._ (their introduction at the beginning of one of the Def Jam shows from '88 or so) got me thinking about the rest of the folks who were on that tour, and I think that it would be really neat to listen to follow-up releases from all of those artists back-to-back. Just for fun, and in case anybody has some money to burn this weekend, picking up copies of PE's _Fear of a Black Planet_ (my favourite out of the two titles... it's held together really nicely by some adept DJ fuckery in between tracks), Pop Will Eat Itself's _Cure for Sanity_, and Run DMC's _Back from Hell_ would actually make for a pretty damned neat afternoon of listening. -me - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> Subject: Re: Locus Solus Date: 20 Oct 1998 18:12:37 -0400 Patrice L. Roussel wrote: (a number of good points snipped) > Does it mean that it is perfect? I won't go so far and I think that I > understand some of your criticisms. This is maybe why I used "fresh" in my > description: the music was not jaded and was full of promisses. I think many of your points are valid, and perhaps again it's more a matter of the expectations brought in to the listening. For me, having decided to "dip his toes" into the rock or pop milieu, he strikes me as a bit too tentative, too desirous of holding on to his improv and experimental background. This is a balance he clearly worked out successfully with NC and other projects later on. From around the same time (earlier, in fact) I find that the first Golden Palominos record is far more successful, working a similar, though less improv-oriented, path. In fact it was this record, along with the Love of Life Orchestra's 'Geneve' and 'Extended Niceties' and Branca's 'Ascension' that got me back into rock-oriented stuff after a long hiatus listening to nothing but jazz and classical. But, as I said, you points are well taken; it's decidedly not jaded and that counts for a lot. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer <keffer@shell.planetc.com> Subject: Sign of Four Date: 20 Oct 1998 18:51:57 -0400 jacobson@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu writes: > I think the harshest > listening I've done in a while was Derek Bailey's Sign of Four. TagYrIt@aol.com writes: >I'd have to second this.....I couldn't make it through the first disc alone. I couldn't make it through the first ten seconds of each track. Periodically, I take that thing off the shelf and say, "Well, I haven't listened to 99% of this yet..." I put it on and I've barely stepped away from the stereo when...ugghhhhhh! Stop! Stop! For the love of God, turn it off!!! I take it off and replace it on the shelf. I am in a sort of cold war with that release. Any long confrontation would result in mutually assured destruction. David "Sign of Four is plain old awful" K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Locus Solus Date: 21 Oct 1998 00:01:32 -0400 Brian Olewnick wrote: > In fact it was this record, along with the Love of Life > Orchestra's 'Geneve' and 'Extended Niceties' and Branca's 'Ascension' > that got me back into rock-oriented stuff after a long hiatus listening > to nothing but jazz and classical. Which reminds me: whatever happened to Peter Gordon and the Love of Life Orchestra? The last thing I recall of his was an album that may have been called "Brooklyn", containing the song "Red Meat". If I ever put a rock project together, I wanna cover his "Life is Boring" -- it's one of my favorite songs. -- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Thurston's label Date: 21 Oct 1998 00:39:08 -0400 APoesia794@aol.com wrote: > as far as i know it's called "father yod" and is located in western mass. Father Yod, as I recall, is Byron Coley's imprint. Thurston's indie label is/was called Ecstatic Peace. When they did that series of "Ass Run" vinyl slabs together it was Ecstatic Yod. But the Sire imprint bears a different name altogther... seems as if it might have been a three-letter name but I'm completely spacing on it. Perhaps when I've got more time and energy - I just got home from a three-day business trip - I'll do a search on the CMJ site, as perhaps it's archived somewhere (that's where I read the news in the first place). Steve > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: winter winter Date: 21 Oct 1998 01:11:12 -0400 Jason Tors wrote: > Does Winter Winter have a web info page? Not to my knowledge. > I want to find out about where they came from. The label is a continuation of what Stefan Winter used to do with his JMT label before Polygram bought him out and killed it. It is also an expansion of that label's activities beyond jazz into classical, world music, and less identifiable things. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Newgarden <dn@panix.com> Subject: re: Mingus/Eye/Locus Solus Date: 21 Oct 1998 01:27:43 -0400 (EDT) A Modern Jazz Symposium Of Music And Poetry WIth Charles Mingus was a studio recording - I'd guess recorded in'57 (I think it was released in '59) - as it's line-up is similar to the previously mentioned East Coasting and also the fantastic '57 albums Tijuana Moods and The Clown (w/ _improvised_ spoken word by Jean Shepherd). I've got a '94 CD reissue of AMJSOMAPWCM on Bethlehem so I suspect it's out there somewhere (I also have an '84 vinyl reissue - anybody want this?)... An interesting point of the Eye/Naked City discussion that I don't think has been mentioned is that Eye's compositions for the Boredoms are composed and then performed again & again with very very little improvisation. (though unfortunately not notated...:-) And Patrice wrote: > LOCUS SOLUS is the only document of Zorn's attempt to do free improv (at least > his form of) with some rock elements. I guess Zorn might have agreed with you > because it is not only the first, it is also the last. Au contraire Patrice - Painkiller has been one one of his longest-running projects...and is in a sense simply another Locus Solus free-rock trio, no? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stefan Verstraeten <stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be> Subject: AckchotΘ/Ribot/Chadbourne Date: 21 Oct 1998 08:46:21 +0100 > From: "M.Ho" <mus4mth@atlas.vcu.edu> > Subject: ackchote > Can someone describe the Ackchote/Ribot/Chadbourne album Lust Corner > for me? > Thanks, > Mary No problem, IMHO this album is definetly worthwile your money. The album is based around Ackchote. Half the album, he plays with Ribot, the other half, he plays with chadbourne. What to expect???? Definitly no guitar noise, but well composed songs (only for two songs, there is some free (noise) style, but it doesn't take longer than 2 minutes. As I mentioned, the rest are compositions from the three guitarplayers and a beatiful cover of an ornette coleman tune. The best song on the album is where Chadbourne brought in one of his country songs (not his freaked out style, but the Frisell Nashvill style). So, get that album -- Stefan Verstraeten NP Chadbourne 'Jungle Cookies'.... this is amazing, a double cd filled with completly nutty people.... I dig this stuff..... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FJG_Lamerikx <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> Subject: Re: interesting hip-hop ??? Date: 21 Oct 1998 08:44:42 +0200 (MET DST) Taylor wrote: > [on Photek] > _Form & Function_ serves nicely as an introduction to Parkes' style and > does give one a sense of how his work has changed over time by way of > including the original versions of "Rings Around Saturn", "UFO" and "The > Seven Samurai"; unfortunately, it also includes a bunch of recent (I think) > remixes of this same material at the beginning of the disc which make for a > good forty-five of same-sounding drudgery. While I absolutely love his > clinical approach to rhythm, this is definitely a release that I can't > listen to all the way through... I'd recommend that prospective listeners > start out with just about any 12" that he has released (I'm partial to "The > Hidden Camera", personally... conveniently and cheaply available on CD) and > maybe his more-diverse-than-usual _Modus Operandi_ before trying to slog > through almost eighty minutes of one set of drum sounds. I definitely agree with you here. I stopped by to listen to the album yesterday. The two new tracks (Santiago and Knitevision) are absolutely brilliant, unparalleled mastery of restraint in beatism. The old tracks are, of course, brilliant, but I already own the 12"-es. The remixes, including the one Photek himself did of "Seven Samurai", are no good. I have a problem with them anyway, since I don't think you can really improve on the originals. So I'd stick with your recommendation to try out some of the 12"-es first. The "Modus Operandi" 12" would be nice as well, especially since it features the fantasticly sparse non-album track "Yendl" on the B-side. Plus, the A-side can be played at both 33 rpm (laid-back jazz) and 45 rpm (mellow junglish) (for vinyl-owners only). Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FJG_Lamerikx <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> Subject: D&B (was: Re: interesting hip-hop ???) Date: 21 Oct 1998 08:48:06 +0200 (MET DST) > > I was also told that the Dom & Roland album is very good. I know he has done > > some extremely cool tracks in the past, such as his classic "Quadrant Six" > > track which he did with Optical. > > Why not try the new "Mysteries of Funk" by Grooverider > (also with Optical as engineer). Seventies Miles Davis-fusion > (dark, no Squarepusher fender rhodes mellowness) with killer bass > and twisted beats. > > Drum'n'Bass record of the year (I admit I haven't heard the new I don't, and have never, liked Grooverider's style. The Dom+Roland I was referring to above is very good. The opening track puts the whole No-U-Turn camp, plus the DHR camp, to shame. Very nice stereo effects in the beginning. Dom Angas is trying his hand at two-step, but for the first time ever I like what someone has done with this idiotic reduction in style. So I'd recommend this album. Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Livingston <jamesliv@OCF.Berkeley.EDU> Subject: Re: Ill from music Date: 21 Oct 1998 00:24:19 -0700 (PDT) >From: Matthew Moffett <fkmoffet@erols.com> >Subject: Re: Ill from music > >i never know if >> this and recounts of japanese musicians working with tonal experiments >>to make >> the listeners loose certain bodily controls are true or just high brow urban >> myths. >> >> - >I don't know about japanese musicians, but I remember from my studio >classes in college watching a video about a professor at Harvard doing >studies of the effects of extreme high and low frequencies. I >specifically remember him saying extreme low end causes the loss of >bowel control, because I ended up stealing that tidbit for a short >story. I also remember, though, that the average speaker system would >be incapable of reproducing the tones. There is an interesting set of reprinted articles on experiments in the effects of Infrasound (subsonic frequencies), how to construct an Infrasonic generator, use of Infrasound as a weapon, an interview/ discussion between William Burroughs and Jimmy Page on the topic, etc. in the first (and possibly only) edition of the AMOK Journal (published by the AMOK book store/publishing house(?) in L.A.). Not sure of the ISBN but any place that carries the RE/Search books is likely to have this book in the same section, if they carry it. -James - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be> Subject: Re: AckchotΘ/Ribot/Chadbourne Date: 21 Oct 1998 10:17:31 +0200 Anyone going to Ribot y los Cubanos tomorrow at Vooruit, Gent ? YVes - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stefan Verstraeten <stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be> Subject: Re: New Buckethead CD Date: 21 Oct 1998 11:41:23 +0100 Hi Tim (yes, another belgian on the lists) and other listmembers, I tried the website you mentioned, but as you can see, the site definitly needs a huge update. NP Merzbow: Mort Aux Vaches (Staalplaat Recordings). Harsh noise based on home made metals... what a sound Schelfhout Tim wrote: > Maybe check out http://www.bucketheadland.com > > From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org> > > At 02:35 PM 10/20/98 +0100, Stefan Verstraeten wrote: > > >Hi, > > >I noticed the new cd by Buckethead (Cobra Strike) > > >Does anyone know the recordlabel or -even better- does someone know > > how > > >the album sounds like, who plays on it, ... > > > > I just posted on this on the Laswell list. I will put the information > > at > > the web site in the next few days. > > > > It will be on Ion. > > Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/ Stefan Verstraeten - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: Thurston's label Date: 21 Oct 1998 09:50:18 -0400 (EDT) On Wed, 21 Oct 1998, Steve Smith wrote: > Father Yod, as I recall, is Byron Coley's imprint. Thurston's indie label > is/was called Ecstatic Peace. When they did that series of "Ass Run" vinyl > slabs together it was Ecstatic Yod. But the Sire imprint bears a different > name altogther... seems as if it might have been a three-letter name but I'm > completely spacing on it. Perhaps when I've got more time and energy - I > just got home from a three-day business trip - I'll do a search on the CMJ > site, as perhaps it's archived somewhere (that's where I read the news in the > first place). thurston and byron's collective reissue label is called k'ey. allegedly their first reissues will be coming out sometime in early 1999. i heard something about a sonny sharrock reissue. I I I I b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Mingus/Eye/Locus Solus Date: 21 Oct 1998 08:06:13 -0700 On Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:27:43 -0400 (EDT) David Newgarden wrote: > > > LOCUS SOLUS is the only document of Zorn's attempt to do free improv (at least > > his form of) with some rock elements. I guess Zorn might have agreed with you > > because it is not only the first, it is also the last. > Au contraire Patrice - Painkiller has been one one of his longest-running > projects...and is in a sense simply another Locus Solus free-rock trio, > no? If you were right, nobody with an interest in (death/heavy metal/etc) rock would dig Pain Killer. The improv in LOCUS SOLUS is of a different kind that the one in Pain Killer. Hey, if adding improv and rock would create the same product, we could even compare Henry Cow to Pain Killer :-). Pain Killer = load of rock + improv Locus Solus = free improv + snippets of rock Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Locus Solus Date: 21 Oct 1998 08:23:06 -0700 On Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:01:32 -0400 Joseph Zitt wrote: > > Which reminds me: whatever happened to Peter Gordon and the Love of > Life Orchestra? The last thing I recall of his was an album that > may have been called "Brooklyn", containing the song "Red Meat". He almost completely disappeared after the release of BROOKLYN in 1987 (at least from a record point of view, the only one I can really follow leaving so far from NY). I remember asking Kathy Acker, 3/4 years ago, what he was up to and she said that she had never heard anything from him or his music (but she might had some reasons not to...). Anyway, he has been back on the record market thanks to the Italian label New Tone. They reissued the two LOLO records, and put out three new ones (LENINGRAD-XPRESS, STILL LIFE & THE DEAD MAN, and QUARTET). His last record, to my knowledge, was THE YELLOW BOX with David Cunningham (1996). Patrice (who maintains a secret Peter Gordon discography). PS: and David van Tieghem? Any clue what happened to him? PPS: it would not hurt if Lovely Music decided to reissue STAR JAWS... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: LOLO was Re[2]: Locus Solus Date: 21 Oct 1998 10:43:25 -0500 Joe wrote: >Which reminds me: whatever happened to Peter Gordon and the Love >of Life Orchestra? The last thing I recall of his was an album >that may have been called "Brooklyn", containing the song "Red >Meat". They did a reunion concert of sorts a coupla years back at Merkin Hall which I saw. Pretty disappointing. They essentially ran through the 'Geneve' repertoire, reproducing the songs virtually exactly, appearing rather bored. I didn't understand the point; could've simply played the record on stage to the same effect. Gordon's releases under his own name since LOLO's demise I've also found pretty worthless. Van Tieghem's too, for that matter. Sometime after the release of 'Geneve', Gordon briefly had a big band that I saw at La Mama (probably around 1982). Great group, with Lenny Pickett, Peter Zummo and a pre-fame Buster Poindexter, among others. They put out a nice cassette, but that was that. I don't know--maybe he and Paul Schaeffer are the same person. Brian Olewnick (hoping to catch Zorn at Merkin tonight) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Duricko <jad5657@is4.nyu.edu> Subject: Re: Portsmouth Sinfonia Date: 21 Oct 1998 11:37:04 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, Lang Thompson wrote: > Does anybody know if any of their albums have been released on CD? As far as I know, no! Jeff (hoping to get a copy of one of their albums off of his music history prof.) "Kick the bagel! Kick it! KICK IT!!!" http://pages.nyu.edu/~jad5657 ICQ#3883353 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1@aol.com Subject: Re: Sign of Four Date: 21 Oct 1998 15:01:48 EDT In a message dated 10/20/98 7:19:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time, keffer@shell.planetc.com writes: > I couldn't make it through the first ten seconds of each track. > Periodically, I take that thing off the shelf and say, "Well, I haven't > listened to 99% of this yet..." I put it on and I've barely stepped > away from the stereo when...ugghhhhhh! Stop! Stop! For the love of God, > turn it off!!! > I take it off and replace it on the shelf. I am in a sort of cold war with > that release. Any long confrontation would result in mutually assured > destruction. > > David "Sign of Four is plain old awful" K. Sounds great, thanks for the glowing review! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Taylor McLaren <tmclaren@uoguelph.ca> Subject: Interesting Photek and meat. Date: 21 Oct 1998 15:36:54 -0400 ...and once again, Frankco wrote: >So I'd stick with your recommendation to try out some of the 12"-es first. >The "Modus Operandi" 12" would be nice as well, especially since it features >the fantasticly sparse non-album track "Yendl" on the B-side. Funny you should mention this... as a result of your comments, I spent most of last night listening to the bulk of his recent output, and the "Modus Operandi" single was the first thing that I had on (and it stayed in the CD player for a whole lot longer than any other title). Between it and "The Hidden Camera", people have got a pretty good idea of what the guy is capable of producing. It's probably cheaper to buy the album than it would be to pick up two singles, but missing out on "Hybrid" would be almost inexcusable... "Yendi" is pretty slick, too. In other not-quite-hip-hop news, I've got Meat Beat Manifesto's _Satyricon_ playing right now, and people with a soft spot for Depeche Mode-ish vocals could do a whole lot worse than to look into this one. I'm always amazed by his choice of oddball samples, and there's a fantastic low-key groove to most of these tracks that I haven't felt in any of his releases since (though "Phone Calls from the Dead" on _Subliminal Sandwich_ was groovy as all hell). Yes, this is profound commentary. -me (does Jack ever do DJ spots anywhere?) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: new Tzadik batch? Date: 21 Oct 1998 16:54:20 -0700 Has anybody seen the new Tzadik batch? Patrice (waiting for the Coleman and the Massacre). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Anish Kejariwal <anishk@jps.net> Subject: jazz/fusion (was d n' b...was hip-hop) Date: 21 Oct 1998 17:00:02 -0800 >Squarepusher. Whereas he is probably the most out-there drum programmer on >the planet, his tracks tend to be the modern-day equivalent of the point where >jazz-fusion went all wrong in the seventies. In hopes of starting another cool tangent...can someone recommend some good jazz/fusion. Any specific albums or musicians? I'm guessing Miles Davis is a good place to start... I guess what Frankco means by "jazz-fusion went all wrong in the seventies" is that it too heavily concentrated and focused on technique, and this resulted in stale, emotionless music. Any thing I should be aware of so I know what to look for and what to avoid? thanks in advance. Anish - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: LOLO was Re[2]: Locus Solus Date: 21 Oct 1998 17:22:26 -0700 On Wed, 21 Oct 98 10:43:25 -0500 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > > They did a reunion concert of sorts a coupla years back at Merkin Hall > which I saw. Pretty disappointing. They essentially ran through the > 'Geneve' repertoire, reproducing the songs virtually exactly, > appearing rather bored. I didn't understand the point; could've simply > played the record on stage to the same effect. That's also my impression of QUARTET, his relatively recent LOLO record on New Tone: like something in your fridge that has passed the limit date... And I am (was) a big fan of LOLO!!! > Gordon's releases under his own name since LOLO's demise I've also > found pretty worthless. Van Tieghem's too, for that matter. Sometime I disagree with you on that statement. INNOCENT is a varied and upbeat record, and if you like LOLO, this one should not disappoint you. But because LOLO kind of never died, maybe you stretch the "since LOLO's demise" more than I assume :-). > after the release of 'Geneve', Gordon briefly had a big band that I > saw at La Mama (probably around 1982). Great group, with Lenny > Pickett, Peter Zummo and a pre-fame Buster Poindexter, among others. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Don't you mean "post-fame David Johansen" :-). > They put out a nice cassette, but that was that. ^^^^^^^^^^ Are you talking of: 023 - SECRET PASTURES (Ballet Suite): Peter Gordon/Love Of Life Orchestra 1984 - Artservices (CT) BTW, the music here is not very different from the one available on INNOCENT. Concerning David Van Tieghem, I also disagree with Brian (when he says: no good records after LOLO). There were three records that I played non-stop in 1985: *** - FACTOR X: Rhys Chatham (1985 - Moers Music) *** - ENVY: Arto Lindsay/Ambitious Lovers (1984 - Editions EG Records) *** - THESE THINGS HAPPEN: David Van Tieghem (1984 - Warner Bros. Records) THESE THINGS HAPPEN is a fantastic and luscious record. Lot of percussions and electronics to produce a wide variety of landscapes. The music is so expressive that each song triggers a different feeling. It seems like every note on this record has been premeditated, and that very little room has been left to slopiness. Could it be what bother you? Also, this is not a drummer record at all! In fact, it is more like a record of electronic music. > I don't know--maybe he and Paul Schaeffer are the same person. What do you mean by that? Where have you seen this name? Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Corey Marc Fogel <mecorey@imap3.asu.edu> Subject: Re: new Tzadik batch? Date: 21 Oct 1998 18:17:38 -0700 (MST) On Wed, 21 Oct 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > Has anybody seen the new Tzadik batch? > > Patrice (waiting for the Coleman and the Massacre). i see it right in my hands. thanks CDNow! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Corey Marc Fogel <mecorey@imap3.asu.edu> Subject: Re: tzadik site Date: 21 Oct 1998 18:39:02 -0700 (MST) On Mon, 19 Oct 1998, m. rizzi wrote: > Jason Tors, demi-God and Icon sez: > >I always find myself disappointed with the organization/functionality of > >this site. > > I'm curious, in your opinion what are the problems there are entirely too many loose ends and inconsistencies. mostly on the news section, where there's excessive information given for tours or week long gigs with the same personnel/specifications for each night, rather than just listing th group once and then listing the dates and locations. and what's with alphabetizing it by first names? and what's with listing at least half what's there under the "urgent news" ? and what's with not updating the list of cds that each person in the news section plays on. and what's with these already disgraceful "updates" taking place once every 2 or 3 months? and what's with using whatever format they used for the bulletin board that allows all the bullshit to get posted automatically....forcing them to take it off the website because it just wasnt worth it for anyone to say anything significant anymore since there was so much ridiculous garbage. > and how do you think they should be solved? simple and logical maintenance! it doesnt seem like such a difficult task, especially when i emailed tzadik@tzadik.com asking them to provide more information on the Masada west coast shows and some other various things on the news page and it was updated the next day. but why should we need to ask? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "ADM" <ameyers@concentric.net> Subject: re: jazz/fusion Date: 21 Oct 1998 18:46:37 -0700 I'd reccomend some Return to Forever (Chick Corea's fusion band). All I own of them is a 2 disc anthology released on verve a couple years ago but its great. Stanley Clarke plays bass on both discs and is pretty incredible. Al Di Meola plays guitar on the second disc and its just about the only Al Di Meola I actually like. Oh yea... I was the person you were gonna trade with for the Rubber City tape. E-mail me. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Audino <psaudino@interaccess.com> Subject: Re: new Tzadik batch? Date: 22 Oct 1998 00:19:46 -0500 (CDT) On Wed, 21 Oct 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > Has anybody seen the new Tzadik batch? The new Massacre is currently kicking my ass as we speak...well worth the 18 year wait between albums...hell, I was 3 years old when the first one came out :) The John Zorn album appears to have been delayed, at least here in the U.S....I saw the new Gisburg disc at Tower. BTW, the November batch of Tzadiks includes new albums by Alvin Curran, Death Praxis (Ikue Mori & Tenko), David Shea, London/Skambler/Caine and Annie Gosfield. Out 2 Lunch With Lunchmeat, Paul psaudino@interaccess.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sulacco@aol.com Subject: re: jazz/fusion Date: 22 Oct 1998 02:23:59 EDT i guess u would kinda need i sing the body electric by weather report. if u wanna check out jazz/fusion, its probably kinda mandatory. of course, this assumes u already have bitches brew by miles davis... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sulacco@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: Ill from music Date: 22 Oct 1998 02:27:56 EDT when i worked at a studio, my friend would crank up the 20 khz when he was biasing a 2 track and it would make my teeth feel funny. thanx to fletcher- munson, u have to completely blast the frequencies at either end of the spectrum to hear them, but damn can they do funny things to you. also, i think the cilia responsible for receiving the higher freqs are more fragile, so they are the first to go. and, if yr interested, the resonant freq of the ear canal is around 3-4 khz... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice <gda@pingnet.li> Subject: jz's "music for children Date: 22 Oct 1998 09:27:07 +0000 hi fellow zornsters lucky me. i thought i'd still have to wait for a few weeks after what tzadik's swiss distributor had told me ten days ago. but - i got my copy of jz's "music for children" this morning. here are my first impressions: 1. fils des etoiles - performed by a. coleman/baptista very sweet. coleman's celeste sounds excellent. baptista offers another rhythmically great performance. and some nice, weird "singing"... - music for children! 2. this way out - performed by lacamoire/wendell/johnson/sanesi/hudgins this is the first of the tracks advertised as "naked city style compositions". and that is exactly what it sounds like. although one can hear that it is not performed by naked city. the overall sound of this lineup is totally different to nc. music for children? 3. music for children - performed by abel/steinberg/winant i'd seen this performed live, so i knew what to expect. - most of the music is very quiet and "nice", but there are parts that are more hectic & dissonant. the combination of piano/violin/percussion is not really my cup of tea. winant's performance is great, and the percussion part i can get into. the violin doesn't do it for me, the "plinky plonky" piano neither. overall this is not the kind of classical music i'm usually into. music for children? 4. bikini atoll 5. bone crusher - same lineup as on "this way out" plus jz these are the other two tracks advertised as "naked city style compositions". comment: see track 2. music for children? 6. dreamer of dreams - performed by ribot/friedlander/cohen this is very laidback, and if you picture ribot/friedlander/cohen playing together you'll be able to imagine what it sounds like. reminds me of a track off of one of the filmworks cds. but do i care? not really, since i love ribot's guitarplaying so much! music for children!? 7. cycles du nord (dedicated to edgard var=E8se) - performed by: zorn over 20 minutes long. very atmospheric, ambient... and definitely weird. some highpitched sounds start creeping in after about six minutes that were almost too much for my ears to bear. zorn performed this on three wind machines and two acoustic feedback systems, so you get the picture! (my friend just said that cycles du nord reminds him of the residents' eskimo lp.) music for children? 8. sooki's lullaby - performed by a. coleman performed on a celeste music box. a sweet lullaby. very calming, relaxing... - music for children! i'd recommend this cd to anyone who appreciates zorn's classical compositions; and to those who are into "torture garden" because of tracks 2, 4 and 5. after having listened to the entire cd only once i can't say if i'll play this very often, but it's definitely one of those cds you have to sit down and listen to. can't really imagine it as background music (except for tracks 1, 6 and 8). looking forward to other people's reviews! patRice - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: London help Date: 22 Oct 1998 04:17:11 EDT so, I'm making my first trip ever to London the first week in November, and I'm looking for record store suggestions and concert info, if anyone out there has any. I'll be there from the 1st through the 8th. thanks, Jon. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Schelfhout" <s_tim@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: D&B (was: Re: interesting hip-hop ???) Date: 22 Oct 1998 05:11:17 PDT I can only second the recommendation for the Dom & roland album. Great soundz !! Can someone reflect on them a little. Like What other releases do they have ... ----Original Message Follows---- Reply-To: FJG_Lamerikx <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> > > I was also told that the Dom & Roland album is very good. I know he has done > > some extremely cool tracks in the past, such as his classic "Quadrant Six" > > track which he did with Optical. > > Why not try the new "Mysteries of Funk" by Grooverider > (also with Optical as engineer). Seventies Miles Davis-fusion > (dark, no Squarepusher fender rhodes mellowness) with killer bass > and twisted beats. > > Drum'n'Bass record of the year (I admit I haven't heard the new I don't, and have never, liked Grooverider's style. The Dom+Roland I was referring to above is very good. The opening track puts the whole No-U-Turn camp, plus the DHR camp, to shame. Very nice stereo effects in the beginning. Dom Angas is trying his hand at two-step, but for the first time ever I like what someone has done with this idiotic reduction in style. So I'd recommend this album. Frankco. - ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Schelfhout" <s_tim@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: AckchotΘ/Ribot/Chadbourne Date: 22 Oct 1998 05:38:04 PDT Sorry, went last night in Brussels at the Beursschouwburg. It was amazingly great. Especially the way Ribot announced the group : " we are the lonesome zorro's of punkcuban music". Verry interesting, sometimes reminded me of Tackhead stuff ?? The band had to come back 3 times satisfy the needs of the crowd!! In short it was awesome! I wonder if the CD is equally good See ya ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Tim Schelfhout" <s_tim@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: jazz/fusion (was d n' b...was hip-hop) Date: 22 Oct 1998 05:53:46 PDT >In hopes of starting another cool tangent...can someone recommend some good >jazz/fusion. Any specific albums or musicians? I'm guessing Miles Davis is a good place to start... You betcha !! Check out "Bitches brew" "Phantalassa" (also the Laswell remixes!!)"Live evil" ... Also worth checking out are Herbie Hancock "Headhunters", "Mwandishi", "Secrets", "Sextant", "Thrust", ... Joe Henderson "Terra firma", "las palmas" and of course Weather report, ... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: LOLO was Re[2]: Locus Solus Date: 22 Oct 1998 08:39:30 -0500 Patrice wrote: >I disagree with you on that statement. INNOCENT is a varied and upbeat >record, and if you like LOLO, this one should not disappoint you. But >because LOLO kind of never died, maybe you stretch the "since LOLO's demise" >more than I assume :-). Well, I guess we'll agree to disagree here. Gordon always, IMHO, had a bit of a slick quality to his playing and composing but, early on in work like 'Extended Niceties', juxtaposed it successfully with abrasive and noise elements (you know, back when "post-modern" was fresh ;-)). With 'Innocent' and then 'Brooklyn', he crossed the line to these ears. BTW, another fine album w/Gordon and his crowd from around this time was 'Music from Antarctica, Vol. 1 (never a Vol 2?). Ned Sublette's 'I Ain't Afraid of Girls' remains an all-time fave. >023 - SECRET PASTURES (Ballet Suite): Peter Gordon/Love Of Life Orchestra >1984 - Artservices (CT) >BTW, the music here is not very different from the one available on >INNOCENT. I think that's the one (my cassettes, in defiance of the rest of my collection, are scattered in a drawer somewhere). If so, I'd crystallize my case by comparing versions of 'This Hat' from the two. To these ears, the cassette version is far superior. >Concerning David Van Tieghem, I also disagree with Brian (when he says: >no good records after LOLO). >*** - FACTOR X: Rhys Chatham (1985 - Moers Music) >*** - ENVY: Arto Lindsay/Ambitious Lovers (1984 - Editions EG Records) Both fine records, but more for the principal's contributions (any fans of Chatham's incredible 'Die Donnergotter' here? Any recs on his recent work?). I have no problems with Van Tieghem's drumming, but I haven't been crazy about the stuff out under his own name. Though I do have fond memories of that video of DVT drumming his way down West Broadway. >*** - THESE THINGS HAPPEN: David Van Tieghem (1984 - Warner Bros. Records) >THESE THINGS HAPPEN is a fantastic and luscious record. Lot of >percussions and electronics to produce a wide variety of landscapes. The >music is so expressive that each song triggers a different feeling. It >seems like every note on this record has been premeditated, and that very >little room has been left to slopiness. Could it be what bother you? I remember hearing this and not being impressed, but the one I have from around then is 'Safety in Numbers' which gets way too far over towards a newagey ambiance for my tastes. Again, I'd be curious about any of his more recent work. >>I don't know--maybe he and Paul Schaeffer are the same person. >What do you mean by that? Where have you seen this name? Sorry, perhaps that's too cynical, but Gordon's mid 80's work doesn't strike me as all that far from what you hear backing late night talk hosts. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J.T. de Boer" <J.T.de.Boer@let.rug.nl> Subject: David Shea shows Date: 22 Oct 1998 15:22:07 +0200 Hi all! I'm glad to announce two shows of David Shea in the University's Theatre USVA in Groningen, The Netherlands. November 14: video-art documentary Dial H.I.S.T.O.R.Y. with the soundtrack performed live by David Shea November 15: New solo works for sampler - Premieres. Both shows start at 21.30 and the entrance fee is fl. 12,50. Jeroen de Boer music director - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: jazz/fusion (was d n' b...was hip-hop) Date: 22 Oct 1998 09:29:30 -0400 (EDT) On Thu, 22 Oct 1998, Tim Schelfhout wrote: > Also worth checking out are Herbie Hancock "Headhunters", "Mwandishi", > "Secrets", "Sextant", "Thrust", ... > Joe Henderson "Terra firma", "las palmas" > and of course Weather report, ... weather report? return to forever? fuck that crap! hancock's _sextant_, miles davis' _on the corner_ and tony williams' lifetime _emergency_ are the *raw* fusion. three amazing records that valued genre-busting over proficiency. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: <pequet@nirvanet.net (Benjamin Pequet)> Subject: Hooker William Date: 22 Oct 1998 15:49:43 +0000 (GMT) Anyone knows who is the Rudolf Steiner that William Hooker (quotes ? and)\r\nthanks in his album Mindfulness with DJ Olive and Glenn Spearman ? \r\nI have an uncle who left to America and his name was Rudolf Steiner, we lost\r\ntouch. Anyone ? \r\n\r\nThanks. Benjamin\r\n - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Zorn at Merkin Date: 22 Oct 1998 09:42:34 -0500 JZ's annual Radical Jewish Culture concert at Merkin Hall last night featured five of his compositions: RUGBY (the program gave a date of 1993 for this; unless there's been a change to the rules, I assume this was a misprint)--The band was Zorn, Friedlander, Jim Pugliese, Winant and Coleman, with Steve Drury conducting (negotiating?). Great fun, though I always wonder how pieces like this (and the 69 paroxysms below) work on a purely aural basis. Much of the enjoyment, I find, comes from watching the mini-coalitions form and dissolve and observing the obvious enthusiasm of the players. Whatever the case, it worked, with a natural flow I sometimes find missing in Zorn's written work like... MEMENTO MORI A string quartet (EF, with Feldman, violinist Joyce Hammann and violist Lois Martin). To me, it sounded too much like a collection of "all the effects I couldn't get into 'Forbidden Fruit'". While it didn't genre-jump, it seemed to wallow uncomfortably between a striving for cohesion and a slide-show of avant-garde string techniques. He does utilize, here and elsewhere, the persnickety habit of ending an otherwise so-so piece with 30-60 seconds of absolute gorgeousity, kinda like Ali saving all his boxing for the last 15 seconds of the round in an effort to sway the judges. MUSIC FOR CHILDREN PatRice's review of the recorded version sounds about right to me (here performed by Winant, Feldman and Drury). Winant was pretty much the featured player but, again, it was a bit of a grab bag of percussion effects (as fascinating and enjoyable as those might be) and less of a cohesive composition. ETANT DONNEES Well, if you're familiar with the recorded version, this performance was all that plus big dollops of humor. Why this piece works far more successfully for me than the previous two is hard to say. Perhaps the simple allusion to Duchamp in the subtitle allows one into a more accepting frame of mind, especially with regard to the slapstick elements: Winant and Pugliese noisily slurping bowls of water, hammering nails into a two by four, sawing apart a stool, etc. Fine, noisy fun, attested to by the grins on the performer's mugs throughout. KOL NIDRE After four works of controlled anarchy (!), Zorn once again pulls an Ali by ending with a sublime string quartet. I'm not quite sure to what extent the melodic line is the same as that used in the pre-Yom Kippur ritual (I understand there are differences between versions used by Ashkenaz and Sephardics), but it was moving, mournful, plaintive, elegiac--choose your adjective. A stunning piece. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: jazz/fusion (was d n' b...was hip-hop) Date: 22 Oct 1998 09:04:04 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 22 Oct 1998, Brent Burton wrote: > weather report? return to forever? fuck that crap! hancock's > _sextant_, miles davis' _on the corner_ and tony williams' lifetime > _emergency_ are the *raw* fusion. three amazing records that valued > genre-busting over proficiency. Also don't forget Ornette Coleman's harmolodic fusion on the earlier Prime Time albums, such as Body Meta and Of Human Feelings (I'd love to find a CD of that...). And, of course, the Mahavishnu Orchestra's "The Inner Mounting Flame". I've been binge-listening to Miles's live 70s stuff this week. Lots of layers in there that I hadn't noticed before, plus the cues, compositional aspects, and organization of what's going on is more evident, now that I'm listening for them... - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: jazz/fusion (was d n' b...was hip-hop) Date: 23 Oct 1998 00:14:10 +1000 > Also don't forget Ornette Coleman's harmolodic fusion on the earlier Prime > Time albums, such as Body Meta and Of Human Feelings (I'd love to find a > CD of that...). And, of course, the Mahavishnu Orchestra's "The Inner > Mounting Flame". And Birds Of Fire! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com> Subject: Massacre- Funny Valentine Date: 22 Oct 1998 10:55:20 -0400 Let me add to the chorus praising this disc. It's one of the best CD's I've heard this year- fell in love with it on first hearing it. Some of Frith's best work. Was a little skeptical not seeing Maher on board but Charles Hayward ain't a slouch by a longshot- very powerful and inventive, IMHO. Mr. Laswell does himself proud here too. An amazing power trio- reminds me of early Mahavishnu in places. I just hope that we don't have to wait as long for a follow-up. If anyone knows if this group is planning to tour, please let us all know! It should be amazing. Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Music for Children Date: 22 Oct 1998 10:58:16 -0400 (EDT) This review that patRice posted is perfectly accurate. I really really all 6 of the short songs (which sadly only total abt. 15 minutes), I kind of like the Winant/Steinberg/Abel piece, and I found the wind machine piece to be an endurance test. Considering, like he said, a lot of this does not seem to be "music for children", it is an odd combination of music, somewhat annoying in my opinion. I'll put up some comments about the Coleman, Gisburg, + Krakauer CDs when I get a chance. First impressions = all good. Also, Avant put out an album of Marie McCauliffe's sextet doing all Bacharach in the style of the song on the Great Jewish Music CD. (No I didn't buy any of these, just reviewing them). WY > > i'd recommend this cd to anyone who appreciates zorn's classical > compositions; and to those who are into "torture garden" because of > tracks 2, 4 and 5. after having listened to the entire cd only once i > can't say if i'll play this very often, but it's definitely one of those > cds you have to sit down and listen to. can't really imagine it as > background music (except for tracks 1, 6 and 8). > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com> Subject: Frith/Massacre Date: 22 Oct 1998 10:59:17 -0400 Already found an answer about live dates: http://www.fredfrith.com/fredfrith/schedule.htm It'll be Frith/Hayward/Laswell with Percy Howard on vocals, billed as Meridiem. J -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org> Subject: Re: Frith/Massacre Date: 22 Oct 1998 08:14:28 -0700 At 10:59 AM 10/22/98 -0400, Perfect Sound Forever wrote: >Already found an answer about live dates: >http://www.fredfrith.com/fredfrith/schedule.htm > >It'll be Frith/Hayward/Laswell with Percy Howard on vocals, billed as >Meridiem. > This is going to be Percy's music, not Massacre. It's really Percy's gig. See the Meridiem disc (which came out a few months ago and was recorded at the same time, along with some tracks with Shawn Lane) for what it will be like. Here's the schedule I posted earlier, although someone told me that the Seattle venue (which Frith doesn't list on his site) is spelled wrong. MERIDIEM: Percy Howard, Bill Laswell, Fred Frith, Charles Hayward San Francisco: The Great American Music Hall Wednesday, Jan 13 Seattle: Arospace Thursday, Jan 14, New York: The Bottom Line Saturday, Jan 16. Jeff Spirer B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/ Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Re[2]: LOLO was Re[2]: Locus Solus Date: 22 Oct 1998 09:26:32 -0700 On Thu, 22 Oct 98 08:39:30 -0500 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > > >Concerning David Van Tieghem, I also disagree with Brian (when he says: > >no good records after LOLO). > > > >*** - FACTOR X: Rhys Chatham (1985 - Moers Music) > >*** - ENVY: Arto Lindsay/Ambitious Lovers (1984 - Editions EG Records) > > Both fine records, but more for the principal's contributions (any fans of > Chatham's incredible 'Die Donnergotter' here? Any recs on his recent work?). I ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You bet! I cannot forgive myself for having missed the CD pressing of that one... Nobody has a copy collecting dust? Recently? Rhys has moved to France few years ago and now he is doing some techno music. He has two recents records: *** NEON: Rhys Chatham, Martin Wheeler 1996 - NTone/Ninja Tune, ??? (??) *** - SEPTILE: Rhys Chatham, Jonathan Kane, DJ Elated System 1998 - NTone/Ninja Tune (Canada), NTONE CDS28 (CD) Also, he has been in talks with Table of the Elements to put out some of his old stuff!!! Knowing how little by him is available, needless to say how excited I am at this news. But I have no clue if a deal went through... > >*** - THESE THINGS HAPPEN: David Van Tieghem (1984 - Warner Bros. Records) > > I remember hearing this and not being impressed, but the one I have from > around then is 'Safety in Numbers' which gets way too far over towards a ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ SAFETY IN NUMBERS is a fine record, but not, IMHO, to the level of THESE THINGS HAPPEN. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FJG_Lamerikx <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> Subject: Re: D&B (was: Re: interesting hip-hop ???) Date: 22 Oct 1998 14:20:25 +0200 (MET DST) Tim Schelfhout: > I can only second the recommendation for the Dom & roland album. Great > soundz !! Can someone reflect on them a little. Like What other releases > do they have ... How very nice to still see people being tricked by the name Dom & Roland. It's a *he*, not a *they*. Dom Angas chose the name Dom & Roland to reflect his partnership with his Roland synthesizer/drum computer. He's been active for quite a while now, and has been known to be one of the key figures in the development of tech step - together with the people at No-U-Turn. He released tracks on Moving Shadow, 31 Records, Reinforced (I believe) and probably a lot of other labels. His best, in my opinion, is the classic "Quadrant Six/Concrete Shoes" 12" he did with Optical under the monicker Dom & Optical (Moving Shadow). His album proves the be that what No-U-Turn's "Torque" promised to be but never really was. Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "m. rizzi" <rizzi@netcom.com> Subject: Re: London help Date: 22 Oct 1998 09:47:12 -0700 (PDT) JonAbbey2@aol.com, demi-God and Icon sez: > >so, I'm making my first trip ever to London the first week in November, and >I'm looking for record store suggestions and concert info, if anyone out there >has any. I'll be there from the 1st through the 8th. thanks, Jon. Me too. I'm making my first trip later the same month Nov. 22-28th (fuck Thanksgiving :) Please email me any store/gig info also. much obliged, mike rizzi rizzi@netcom.com -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com "Another nerd with a soulpatch" -------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 ------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org> Subject: Fuck Thanksgiving, (was Re: London help) Date: 22 Oct 1998 09:57:24 -0700 At 09:47 AM 10/22/98 -0700, m. rizzi wrote: > Nov. 22-28th (fuck Thanksgiving :) I agree. We're going to Mexico (again) so that we don't have to eat turkey or see relatives. (Zero list content.) Jeff Spirer B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/ Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: Rhys Chatham was Re[4]: LOLO was Re[2]: Locus Solus Date: 22 Oct 1998 12:38:53 -0500 Patrice wrote: >Recently? Rhys has moved to France few years ago and now he is doing some >techno music. He has two recents records: He also has a web page (don't have the URL handy, but do an Alta Vista search on his name and you'll find it) which includes some thoughtful essays. >*** NEON: Rhys Chatham, Martin Wheeler 1996 - NTone/Ninja Tune, ??? (??) >*** - SEPTILE: Rhys Chatham, Jonathan Kane, DJ Elated System 1998 - NTone/Ninja Tune (Canada), NTONE CDS28 (CD) How are these? I admit that, having read some reviews, I was a little cautious; always wary about new music types mixing it up with dance hall folk, a la Ben Neill--generally seems to end up in watered down versions of both. >Also, he has been in talks with Table of the Elements to put out some of >his old stuff!!! Knowing how little by him is available, needless to say >how excited I am at this news. But I have no clue if a deal went >through... Good news! Isn't there a piece by him involving massed guitars with "Angel" and/or "Speed of Light" in the title? This hasn't been released anywhere, has it? Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Rhys Chatham was Re[4]: LOLO was Re[2]: Locus Solus Date: 22 Oct 1998 10:23:45 -0700 On Thu, 22 Oct 98 12:38:53 -0500 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > > He also has a web page (don't have the URL handy, but do an Alta Vista > search on his name and you'll find it) which includes some thoughtful > essays. http://pages.pratique.fr/~chatham/ > >*** NEON: Rhys Chatham, Martin Wheeler > 1996 - NTone/Ninja Tune, ??? (??) > >*** - SEPTILE: Rhys Chatham, Jonathan Kane, DJ Elated System > 1998 - NTone/Ninja Tune (Canada), NTONE CDS28 (CD) > > How are these? I admit that, having read some reviews, I was a little > cautious; always wary about new music types mixing it up with dance > hall folk, a la Ben Neill--generally seems to end up in watered down > versions of both. I only know SEPTILE and I am not too crazy about it... You can recognize Rhys' style but the net result, like you said, is not very convincing, landing in a kind of no-man's land (neither exciting from what angle you look at it). Not a bad record (and some might love it), but I still feel like an orphan with Rhys, and with barely only two records under his name (of his older stuff), I still feel hungry for more FACTOR X, DRASTIC CLASSICISM, etc. I have never seen NEON which seems to have disappeared very fast. And also, yes, NEW MUSIC FROM ANTARCTICA - VOLUME 1 is a fantastic record! Which also features Rhys Chatham (the piece he wrote for Karol Armitage). > >Also, he has been in talks with Table of the Elements to put out some of > >his old stuff!!! Knowing how little by him is available, needless to say > >how excited I am at this news. But I have no clue if a deal went > >through... > > Good news! Isn't there a piece by him involving massed guitars with > "Angel" and/or "Speed of Light" in the title? This hasn't been > released anywhere, has it? Sure, but like you, I forgot the exact title (something like "100 Angels go faster than speed of Light", for 100 electric guitars). An excerpt from it is on the New Tone compilation on American Music. Don't have the detailed description and will check it. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: no Tzadik link on the KF web site... Date: 22 Oct 1998 12:43:06 -0700 It looks like the KF has removed its link to the Tzadik site... Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: al.t@mtnhdw.com (Al T) Subject: Samuel Delany and music Date: 23 Oct 1998 02:56:52 GMT I've been reading _Silent Interviews_ by Samuel Delaney for the last few months off and on. It's a very interesting critical perspective on critical perspectives, btw. Threads on SF/Delaney, the point of 'experimental' music, and the beginnings of the last pomo thread hit exactly as I was reading the following. The syncronicity was too much to pass up so I marked it and finally had time to type it in. Pardon the length. I've no idea, btw, what he's talking about<g>. Begin quotation: "...here might be a good place to begin a rather sweeping conclusion to all this... In high school, I had a friend who was a composer. For a time we were also part of a folk-signing quartet together. Somewhere during the autumn of 1961, when he was in his second year of college and I had dropped out, gotten married, and was writing my first SF novel, he copleted an interesting musical composition that was to be performed at a concert of new music at Hunter College. It was complex, atonal, and at some of the rehersals I helped out as a page-turner. At any point in the piece, the dozen-odd instruments would be playing all 12 notes of the scale--save one. Through the course of the composition, the missing note moved up and down through the cacophonous sonorites, so theat the "melodic line," if you call it that, was a silence that progressed, as a sort of absent melody, through it all. During rehersals, while I sat by the metal music stand, waiting to turn over the page for the clarinetist, something became clear. When the piece, or more usually, a stretch of it, was performed very, very well by all the players, with the dynamics and intonations truly under control and great attention fixed to its overall cohesion, then the travelling silence became clearly audible and its effect, striking, disturbing, even moving. If, however, one or two of the players lost their concentration, of there was the least little dynamic wandering, or there was any noise at all in the rehersal room, or indeed, if the attention of the listener strayed a moment, then the whole thing dissolved into acoustic mush. I couldn't be at the concert, but some time later my friend told me that, no, he didn't feel it had gone very well. As far as he could tell, simply the change in the sonority of the auditorium that occurred when it was filled with people had been enough to muddy the subtle musical experience he contrived. Possibly because I wasn't at the performance, I had an interesting absence to think about, and my friend's piece became a kind of model for me of the situation of the serious writer--if not the artist in general. I thought about it alot then, and I've thought about it alot since. It doesn't seem to matter whether the writer is a "hard-hitting journalist" of the farthest out constructor of experimental poems. All the writer's noise is finally an attempt to shape a silence in which something can go on. Call it the silence of interpretation, if you will; but even that's too restrictive. The silence of response is probably better--if not just silence itself. The writer tries to shape it carefully, conscientiously; but both forming and hearing it today can be equally hard. end quotation. Bonus questions: Was his friend's experimental piece successful music or not? Would it have been successful if it had been performed impeccably, in the right performance space, but everyone's attention wandered? Could it be considered a success even though hall "broke" the piece, simply because it gave one guy a focus for decades of productive thought and, most likely, altered what he would attempt to do with his own not insignificant work. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel) Subject: Michael Beinhorn discography Date: 23 Oct 1998 00:05:34 +0200 Hi all, just wanted to let you know that I've just uploaded a Michael Beinhorn discography. There are still some gaps, but take a look nevertheless. http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil/beinhorn.htm Kind regards, - Chris. ------------------------------------------------------- * Chris Genzel --- stamil@t-online.de * * Herbie Hancock & Michael Beinhorn discographies at: * * http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil/ * ------------------------------------------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Kaltherzig@aol.com Subject: Masada question and an item up for auction Date: 22 Oct 1998 18:39:21 EDT Hi, I just picked up Masada #10 and it is of course brilliant. My question is, does anyone know just how many of these there are going to be? I have the 'Archery' 2XLP Box for auction if anyone is interested. It is in good shape and has all of the inserts. It is ltd. to 1000 but 500 were destroyed in a fire if I understand correctly. Let's make the starting bid $70. If you are interested in bidding, please e-mail me privately. Thanks for reading. Richard - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Lankin <lankina@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Masada on sale Date: 22 Oct 1998 21:59:10 -0400 In case anyone's interested, I just noticed that CDNow is selling Masada's 1 through 9 for $12.94. (And you can probably get another $5 off if you play their no-jazz-content trivia game.) The sale end 10/30. The Masada stuff is at the bottom of this page: http://www.cdnow.com/switch/from=sr-821868/target=buyweb_products/ArtistID=FRN-ZORN*JOHN -- Alan Lankin lankina@worldnet.att.net http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re: Thurston's label Date: 21 Oct 1998 17:09:26 -0500 Brent Burton wrote: > thurston and byron's collective reissue label is called k'ey. allegedly > their first reissues will be coming out sometime in early 1999. i heard > something about a sonny sharrock reissue. Supposedly its going to be Sonny's Black Woman Lp with Linda, Sirone, Milford Graves and Dave Burrell. I wish them better luck than I had in 86, trying to track down the masters. No one in the front offices had ever heard of Vortex, or knew that it was an Atlantic affiliated label. I even had someone who worked at WEA look into it, according to them, the masters were not listed in the tape archives. Rich http://pages.cthome.net/richwilliams/ (which includes the full Sharrock Discography) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: Re: no Tzadik link on the KF web site... Date: 23 Oct 1998 08:58:37 +0200 (MEST) > It looks like the KF has removed its link to the Tzadik site... > > Patrice. sounds as if some childishness is going on over there BJOERN www.cityinfonetz.de/uni/homepage/bjoern.eichstaedt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: frederick.baas@holdercim-serv.fr Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?R=E9f._:_Re:_Rhys_Chatham_-_NEON?= Date: 23 Oct 1998 17:26:14 +0100 Rhys Chatham' s NEON is a 12"EP with Martin Wheeler=2E Packaging is quite n= ice :=20 Vynil in a antistatic bag=2E I prefer it to Septile=2E First track is very=20= dynamic=20 with many trumpet riff=2E Very good EP=2E - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Whitman <bwhitman@WPI.EDU> Subject: Internet broadcast Date: 23 Oct 1998 15:48:02 -0400 (EDT) Stapple: breadboard 1. Saturday, October 24th from 11pm to 2am EST. Live on New Haven radio and also the internet. You'll need the latest RealPlayer (www.real.com) and a web browser pointed to http://www.netspace.org/crudites/spaces/stapple Stapple is a duo that plays sound installations. This one centers around feedback loops from source material. mike walz: effects, source tones brian whitman: sampler, commodore 64 It is being broadcasted from the Crudites stage, a project finally getting its land legs. Check it out at http://www.netspace.org/crudites thanks for your time, check it out if you can! Brian Whitman - bwhitman@wpi.edu http://www.netspace.org/users/bwhitman Crudites - sound _is_ information. http://www.netspace.org/crudites - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SRus721639@aol.com Subject: Swaps Date: 23 Oct 1998 16:10:10 EDT I have a list of avant garde type cd's available for trades. If anyone is interested please mail me offlist for a copy. thanks Scott Russell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Bruno Bissonnette" <burningwater@hotmail.com> Subject: Brotzmann/Van Hove/Bennink Date: 23 Oct 1998 17:11:37 PDT Hi Zornophiles, What disc would be a good place to start with the Br÷tzmann/Van Hove/Bennink trio? Which contains their most intense material? Are all their records on FMP, and are they available on CD? Thanks, Bruno ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "The Cyberschloss at Schloss Chatsworth" <schloss@mail.com> Subject: News for Anyone going to Zorn's London Gig Date: 24 Oct 1998 01:26:52 +0100 Anyone who was planning to go to the Barbican (London) on Tuesday (27 October) should note that it has been rescheduled (as of today) to Thursday. 'Administrative reasons', apparently. Whatever they are. Christopher Walker - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan Lankin <lankina@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: no Tzadik link on the KF web site... Date: 23 Oct 1998 20:53:24 -0400 > > > It looks like the KF has removed its link to the Tzadik site... > > > sounds as if some childishness is going on over there > Childishness? Or just no-holds-barred capitalism? 8-) -- Alan Lankin lankina@worldnet.att.net http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Greg Pierce <babaluvloo@earthlink.net> Subject: PSF Date: 23 Oct 1998 21:35:24 -0500 Hope it isn't too late to weigh in on this topic... I highly recommend all Mikami Kan related disks. I have all of his PSF releases and all are fabulous. I especially recommend USE (PSFD-30) and Arashi Ame Arashi (PSFD-97). In terms of vague description, Mikami Kan is kind of a bluesy, folky, yet utterly foreign singer/acoustic guitarist. All of his music seems intensely emotional, even though I have no idea what, specifically, he is singing about since it is all in japanese. In fact, I prefer that these discs are all in japanese as that allows me to decide what he is singing about, as opposed to his vision being totally imposed upon me. Also, if you can still find them, buy the two volumes of Music in the First Year of Heisei -- live trio recordings featuring Mikami Kan, Keiji Haino, and Moto Yoshizawa (PSFD-5/6). With respect to heavy rock recordings, I highly recommend all of the High Rise releases on PSF -- heavy, psych, power trio, instrumental, freak out extra-vaganzas. The Tokyo Flashback volumes are also good samplers if you like heavy/psych type music. Also, in this vein, Out (PSFD-11), by White Heaven, is also excellent. Also, all of the Fushitsusha/Haino/Haino + others releases on PSF are excellent. Finally, if anyone knows of any non-PSF recordings by Mikami Kan, please do tell. "A lot can be said for the infinite mercies of God, but the smarts of a good pharmacist, when you get down to it, is worth more." -- P.K. Dick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Brotzmann/Van Hove/Bennink Date: 23 Oct 1998 23:25:12 EDT In a message dated 10/23/98 10:52:23 PM, burningwater@hotmail.com wrote: <<What disc would be a good place to start with the Br=F6tzmann/Van Hove/Bennink trio? Which contains their most intense material? Are all their records on FMP, and are they available on CD?>> I'm fairly sure that most of this trio's material isn't available on CD, w= ith the exception of the double disc _Live In Berlin '71_, which is the trio p= lus stunning guest Albert Mangelsdorff. While I'm at it, I'd like to highly recommend Mangelsdorff's 2 CD set on MPS/Verve, _Three Originals_. This includes the three records, _The Wide Point_, _Trilogue_, and _Live In Montreaux_. Each of the records is a trio record and has a different bassi= st and drummer along with Mangelsdorff. The first has Palle Danielsson and El= vin Jones, the second Jaco Pastorius and Alphonse Mouzon, and the third has Je= an Francois Jenny-Clark and Ronald Shannon Jackson. The dates are 1975, 1976,= and 1980 respectively. The Brotzmann record is pretty good, but the Mangelsdorff is amazing. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Music for Children, again Date: 24 Oct 1998 00:25:43 -0400 (EDT) Just wanted to say that I lasted all the way through "Cycles du Nord", the wind machine/feedback thingie on this CD. Pretty brutal (I'd estimate wind speeds of maybe 150 mph or so...) but better than I had first thought. There are some little melody parts at the end played by the feedback that are actually sort of pretty. But if you thought Leng T'che or even Torture Garden are punishing, listen to this one. Still, I bet he's going to catch a lot of hell for putting this out, and its too bad its on the same disc with the other stuff that I'd listen to over and over. Has anyone else heard the Cassiber/Ground Zero CD pn ReR? I'm not sure about the first disc, but the second disc, the remix, is awesome. Not as frantic as the other Otomo stuff I've heard. Does anyone know where to get Ground Zero Plays Standards (I know this has been mentioned but I tried a few places including DMG w/ no luck). WY - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave Egan" <degan@excell.com> Subject: Re: no Tzadik link on the KF web site... Date: 23 Oct 1998 21:25:03 -0700 That link had been there a long time, and it looks to me like they rotate the links from time to time to make room for new links in the frame. I'm inclined to think that it's as simple as that. - Dave >> > It looks like the KF has removed its link to the Tzadik site... >> > >> sounds as if some childishness is going on over there >> > >Childishness? Or just no-holds-barred capitalism? 8-) > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Ground Zero, Simon Fell, and Bob Ostertag Date: 24 Oct 1998 02:10:52 EDT In a message dated 10/24/98 12:27:52 AM, you wrote: << Does anyone know where to get Ground Zero Plays Standards (I know this has been mentioned but I tried a few places including DMG w/ no luck).>> the newly created Other Music web site lists it, www.othermusic.com. anyone else see Bob Ostertag tonight? I'm not much of a fan, but he put together a pretty solid half hour set of improvised sampling, building climaxes nicely and staying pretty constantly fluid, with only the occasional moment of wankiness. quick review of Simon Fell's _Compilation III (Bruce's Fingers): after two listens, a leading candidate for my top 10 of 1998 list. Parts sound like Mingus-inspired small combos with a bunch of killer sax soloists (Alan Wilkinson, John Butcher, Charles Wharf, and Mick Beck), while other parts are more rock-derived with three electric guitarists (Stefan Jaworzyn, Colin Medlock, and Damien Bowskill) taking the occasional long solo. parts are composed, parts are improv. most of it is broken down into smaller group settings, including Fell's superb OST trio with himself on bass, Mark Wastell on cello, and Rhodri Davies on harp, among numerous others.) there are more than forty musicians on the record, but for all of this, it's stunningly coherent and enjoyable. today I picked up the brand new Incus release by Fell's trio with Alan Wilkinson and drummer Paul Hession. on this one, they're joined by Joe Morris. anyone heard this yet? Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Ground Zero, Simon Fell, and Bob Ostertag Date: 24 Oct 1998 02:10:52 EDT In a message dated 10/24/98 12:27:52 AM, you wrote: << Does anyone know where to get Ground Zero Plays Standards (I know this has been mentioned but I tried a few places including DMG w/ no luck).>> the newly created Other Music web site lists it, www.othermusic.com. anyone else see Bob Ostertag tonight? I'm not much of a fan, but he put together a pretty solid half hour set of improvised sampling, building climaxes nicely and staying pretty constantly fluid, with only the occasional moment of wankiness. quick review of Simon Fell's _Compilation III (Bruce's Fingers): after two listens, a leading candidate for my top 10 of 1998 list. Parts sound like Mingus-inspired small combos with a bunch of killer sax soloists (Alan Wilkinson, John Butcher, Charles Wharf, and Mick Beck), while other parts are more rock-derived with three electric guitarists (Stefan Jaworzyn, Colin Medlock, and Damien Bowskill) taking the occasional long solo. parts are composed, parts are improv. most of it is broken down into smaller group settings, including Fell's superb OST trio with himself on bass, Mark Wastell on cello, and Rhodri Davies on harp, among numerous others.) there are more than forty musicians on the record, but for all of this, it's stunningly coherent and enjoyable. today I picked up the brand new Incus release by Fell's trio with Alan Wilkinson and drummer Paul Hession. on this one, they're joined by Joe Morris. anyone heard this yet? Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TWHY666@aol.com Subject: Whats up with the new boredoms? Date: 24 Oct 1998 03:40:16 EDT It was post to be release in the US 10/20/98 but got pushed back? Anyone know any info when the new date will be, or what it sounds like? thanks, Chad - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Whats up with the new boredoms? Date: 24 Oct 1998 04:13:35 EDT In a message dated 10/24/98 3:42:59 AM, TWHY666@aol.com wrote: <<It was post to be release in the US 10/20/98 but got pushed back? Anyone know any info when the new date will be>> I was told it had been bumped to next Tuesday, the 27th. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Brotzmann/Van Hove/Bennink Date: 24 Oct 1998 04:20:18 EDT In a message dated 10/23/98 10:52:23 PM, burningwater@hotmail.com wrote: <<What disc would be a good place to start with the Br=F6tzmann/Van Hove/Bennink trio? Which contains their most intense material? Are all their records on FMP, and are they available on CD?>> adding to my earlier post, there's a complete list of FMP LPs and CDs at http://www.wam.umd.edu/~losinp/music/fmp.html Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joeseph Simon" <proving@en.com> Subject: Re: Ground Zero, Simon Fell, and Bob Ostertag Date: 24 Oct 1998 12:22:55 -0400 Try Bent Crayon at www.bentcrayon.com. I got my copy there! Joeseph -----Original Message----- > >In a message dated 10/24/98 12:27:52 AM, you wrote: > ><< Does anyone know where to >get Ground Zero Plays Standards (I know this has been mentioned but I >tried a few places including DMG w/ no luck).>> > >the newly created Other Music web site lists it, www.othermusic.com. > >anyone else see Bob Ostertag tonight? I'm not much of a fan, but he put >together a pretty solid half hour set of improvised sampling, building >climaxes nicely and staying pretty constantly fluid, with only the occasional >moment of wankiness. > >quick review of Simon Fell's _Compilation III (Bruce's Fingers): > >after two listens, a leading candidate for my top 10 of 1998 list. Parts sound >like Mingus-inspired small combos with a bunch of killer sax soloists (Alan >Wilkinson, John Butcher, Charles Wharf, and Mick Beck), while other parts are >more rock-derived with three electric guitarists (Stefan Jaworzyn, Colin >Medlock, and Damien Bowskill) taking the occasional long solo. parts are >composed, parts are improv. most of it is broken down into smaller group >settings, including Fell's superb OST trio with himself on bass, Mark Wastell >on cello, and Rhodri Davies on harp, among numerous others.) there are more >than forty musicians on the record, but for all of this, it's stunningly >coherent and enjoyable. > >today I picked up the brand new Incus release by Fell's trio with Alan >Wilkinson and drummer Paul Hession. on this one, they're joined by Joe Morris. >anyone heard this yet? > >Jon > >- > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "m. rizzi" <rizzi@netcom.com> Subject: Re: no Tzadik link on the KF web site... Date: 24 Oct 1998 21:54:19 -0700 (PDT) Alan Lankin, demi-God and Icon sez: > >Childishness? Or just no-holds-barred capitalism? 8-) same thing, ain't it? informatively yours, mike rizzi@netcom.com -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com "Another nerd with a soulpatch" -------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 ------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ScottRussell <ScottRussell@scottishmedia.com> Subject: Teiji Ito Date: 25 Oct 1998 22:22:47 -0000 Thought I'd post some thoughts on the Teiji Ito King Ubu album since I haven't seen it mentioned much. David Toop reviews the disc in the new issue of the Wire, comparing it to Brian Wilson's Smile outtakes he says it is 'small' music in the best sense. Small music it is, low key and charming with direct and open melodies-much like Mr Wilson. Don't let those descriptions fool you, however, this is clearly complex stuff created by someone with giant musical talents. My first impression was of a kind of bedroom Harry Partch-all drums and thumb pianos playing quirkily insistent percussion music. Of course there's the whole kitchen sink-load of instrumentation, from guitars alto sax and clarinet to zither, ukelele, organ and a bunch of stuff you'll never have heard of. I think Guy Klusevcek sums it up well in his liner notes when he describes his favourite moments: "Beer Barrel Polka, with an inspired combination of orkon and a wacked-out xylophone part that sounds like it could have been written by Frank Zappa; Where oh where has my little dog gone, in spiraling, dizzy arrangements for thumb pianos and glass bottles; and a Tea for Two with alto sax and ukelele, dripping with sleaze... Above all, there is the overwhelming sense of a brilliant creative spirit... Teiji loved all styles of music, including classical, ethnic, jazz and pop, and could get deeply enough into each genre to capture the essence and spirit of the music, yet be able to internalise it so that it sounds uniquely his own" I can't add much to that. It's a wonderful disc: witty, gentle, crazy and deeply cherishable. To the list of influences you might also add Raymond Scott and Carl Stalling, perhaps Thelonious Monk and also Moondog. Yet another amazing Tzadik release! Scott Russell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Bramy <tbramy@oz.net> Subject: David S. Ware Date: 25 Oct 1998 19:13:43 -0800 I just picked up David S. Ware's "Third Ear Recitation" and I love it. I bought it because I recognized his name, but damned if I can figure out where from. Could some body rattle my brain for me? Todd - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net> Subject: Re: David S. Ware Date: 25 Oct 1998 23:27:50 -0300 Todd Bramy wrote: > Oz net? You're in Oz?? They still have DSWare's 3rd Ear in stock in OZ?? I **need** this. Can you help me? Discography below. Perhaps it will help you figure out how you recognized his name... Best, RL -- Marilyn Crispell, Susie Ibarra, Sam Rivers, Matthew Shipp, David S. Ware, and Reggie Workman discographies--Samuel Beckett Eulogy--Baseball & the 10,000 Things--Time Stops--LOVETORN--HARD BOIL--etc., at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k ***Very Various Music For Sale: ***http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/4SALE.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: David S. Ware Date: 25 Oct 1998 23:13:14 -0500 Rick Lopez wrote: > Oz net? You're in Oz?? They still have DSWare's 3rd Ear in stock in OZ?? > I **need** this. Can you help me? Hey Rick, Koch is about to put this back in your local store in the coming month, so don't go doing something crazy like mailing a gob of money to Australia! Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sulacco@aol.com Subject: an old thread... Date: 26 Oct 1998 00:37:59 EST i'm not trying to resurrect the past, but i just picked up weird little boy. i have to say that i rather enjoy it. i feel like i was looking for this type of disc for a while. kinda noisy, kinda unpolished. i know some people had very strong feelings about it, and i don't want to really get into this again (so why am i posting this?) but there is at least one fan of this disc out here... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be> Subject: Re: News for Anyone going to Zorn's London Gig Date: 26 Oct 1998 10:19:32 +0100 > Anyone who was planning to go to the Barbican (London) on Tuesday (27 > October) should note that it has been rescheduled (as of today) to Thursday. > 'Administrative reasons', apparently. Whatever they are. On Tuesday 27 oct, he plays at the audijazz-festival in Brussels. YVes - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FJG_Lamerikx <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> Subject: Re: Whats up with the new boredoms? Date: 26 Oct 1998 13:45:03 +0100 (MET) > <<It was post to be release in the US 10/20/98 but got pushed back? Anyone > know > any info when the new date will be>> > > I was told it had been bumped to next Tuesday, the 27th. And then you probably won't get the nice packaging that it has in Japan. Very good CD, by the way. Sort of develops from where Super Roots 6 left. It has little in common with the chaotic Boredoms material of before. Long tracks, trance-like quality. Distinct Krautrock influences. Very good. Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "hijk" <hijk@gateway.net> Subject: RE: High Fidelity Date: 26 Oct 1998 10:11:03 -0500 Thanks to everyone for mentioning this book. I just finished it. Jeff Kent hijk@gateway.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "hijk" <hijk@gateway.net> Subject: Avant Catalog Date: 26 Oct 1998 10:25:18 -0500 Can someone post or tell me where to find a list of all the Avant titles. I just picked up 069, Bruce Ackley Trio. Greg Cohen swings like no other. Jeff Kent hijk@gateway.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Papagiannakis Manolis <papagian@luce.iesl.forth.gr> Subject: GODARD -NATO Date: 26 Oct 1998 23:46:15 +0200 (EET) i have found the Godard ca vous chante compilation with the ZORN piece at a local store. If anyone wants it I cn trade it to something like APORIAS orsomething of that sort *ie normal release. Private e-mail please PAPAGIAN@LUCE.IESL.FORTH.GR MANOLIS. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joshua A Miller <umillj08@umail.ucsb.edu> Subject: fantomas live Date: 26 Oct 1998 13:41:27 -0800 (PST) saw fantomas (mike patton of mr bungle/faithnomore &c, trevor dunn of mr. bungle, buzz osborne of the melvins, and dave lombardo from slayer) the other night. i was really impressed! most of it was reminiscient of boredoms and short thrashy naked city, patton's voice in particular was very eye at times, but it never came off as just being a cheap imitation or anything. it seemed mostly composed with some hand cues by patton. but they never looked at a single chart or even a set list or anything through the whole show, nor did patton tell anybody what song was going to be played next (at least not with words). and they were sooo tight! i thought it was great. there were a lot of metalheads there, ostensibly to see the drummer (who did not at all look like what i would expect the drummer from slayer to look like), and they were really funny. they would really get in to the loudfast parts, then when there was a weird quiet part they would boo and shout "pussies!" then there would be another loudfast part and they'd be happy again. and apparently buzzo can play fast after all (been holding back all these years!) does anyone know exactly how long they've been playing? because they seemed to know the set by heart, and were just _on_. i only remember hearing about them a few months ago. anyway, its great stuff. i don't know how extensive this tour is gonna be, but i highly recommend seeing them if they stop by your town. josh -- Joshua A Miller umillj08@umail.ucsb.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: clockwise <clockwis@mail.execpc.com> Subject: Re: fantomas live Date: 26 Oct 1998 17:56:03 -0600 At 01:41 PM 10/26/98 -0800, you wrote: >and apparently buzzo can play fast after all (been >holding back all these years!) All the hype the Melvins have had concerning their sludge sound is hilarious to anyone even remotely into the band. Even a cursory listen to their early works ("Six Songs", or the uncovered tracks "Scared", "Grinding Process" and "She Waits" off the Deep Six compilation) show that the Melvins did *not* set out to slow down the tempo of rock. If anything, they were the fastest of the northwest scene (with the possible exception of the Accused). peace clockwise - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jack Torrance" <kubrick@www.hotmail.com> Subject: takemitsu,haino Date: 26 Oct 1998 18:18:57 PST In the latest issue of the wire there is an article on takemitsu.At the end of the article they list recommended takemitsu recordings currently available-Film Music Vols 1-6(JVC Japan).Does anyone own any of these or know where they are available?I can't find them anywhere. As well does anyone know the details of haino's shows at Tonic this weekend? Who's playing with him on what night? Jack ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: takemitsu,haino Date: 26 Oct 1998 21:27:58 EST you asked: <<As well does anyone know the details of haino's shows at Tonic this weekend? Who's playing with him on what night?>> following is the current schedule, relayed from our good friend Bruce Gallanter at Downtown Music Gallery. the trio with Feldman and Dresser sounds especially intriguing. Jon <<Oct. 29 - rare solo performance by the enigmatic black-clad noise troubadour 30 - Haino Keiji Trio - with Joey Baron & Mark Dresser. A peculiar recent fascination with the recordings (ca. 192Os- 4Os) of Argentinian swing guitar legend Oscar Aleman has led to the unexpected recording of what might be called a Haino Keiji 'jazz' album (recorded with the Masada rhythm section of Joey Baron & Greg Cohen) (coming in January on Avant - "An Unclear Trial: More Than This"). Expect this to be a one time only event with jazz drum great Baron and Braxton bassist Mark Dresser. Of course -don't expect this to sound just like Oscar Aleman any more than Fushitsusha might 'sound' like Haino's heroes Blue Cheer-- the album's more like Blood Ulmer multiplied to the nth degree. 31 - Haino Keiji with Min Xiao-Fen, Cyro Baptista, Andy Haas, Kramer & Josh Roseman.>> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: takemitsu,haino Date: 25 Oct 1998 21:14:50 -0500 Jack Torrance wrote: > > In the latest issue of the wire there is an article on takemitsu.At > the end of the article they list recommended takemitsu recordings > currently available-Film Music Vols 1-6(JVC Japan).Does anyone own any > of these or know where they are available? I can't find them anywhere. I have a few discs of Korean music on JVC which are easy to find/order. This may be a Japanese branch of the same label??? There is a disc on Nonesuch called 'The Film Music of Toru Takemitsu' which is really good. Maybe you should start there. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phil <phil@clarksonp.demon.co.uk> Subject: RE: London Help Date: 27 Oct 1998 07:03:05 +0000 =46or those of you heading for London - here are a couple of my favorite record shops, but do remember that CDs over here cost about =A312 upwards - they're probably cheaper than in the US, unless you're after some stuff that you can't find back home. So - whilst in town, check out: Rough Trade Records - one of the oldest indie record shops. They have 2 branches, one in Neal's Yard in Covent Garden. This one is in the basement of the Slam City Skates shop & stocks electronica, hip hop, d'n'b, wierd shit jazz, reggae / dub, post-rock (ecch - I hate that term). Ther are also quite often gigs or DJ events down here, even though it's a tiny place. There's a Zorn section. Full of good obscure CDs & vinyl. The other branch is in Talbot Street, Ladbroke Grove towards the north end of the Portobello Road. Nice people, good shopping, but not cheap. Sister Ray records - in Berwick Street, Soho. Full of electronica, hip-hop, d'n'b & most alternative rock. Usually the cheapest prices for new releases. No Zorn-type stuff though. Selectadisc - also in Berwick Street. Same stuff as Sister Ray, but a wider selection. Good prices here too. Sounds Of The Universe, Ingestre Place, Soho. Home of left-field dance, jazz, electronica, hip hop, dub etc etc. Loads of vinyl - a bit trendy but very good. There are loads of other record shops in town. Soho has a huge number of dance / DJ shops specialising in house, hip-hop, latin, & drum & bass - Mr Bongo & Black Market records are probably the best, but if you're over 21 & don't have an attitude, prepare to feel very old when you walk in... The main CD shops are in the centre of town - HMV & Virgin in Oxford Street, and Tower in Piccadilly Circus. You know what they're like - mainstream, huge selection, a few good deals, but try the indie shops first - they're better. As for used CD shops, try Reckless Records in Berwick Street - they have everything, reasonable prices & lots of CD & vinyl. There are also branches of Record & Tape Exchange in Berwick Street, Camden High Street & Notting Hill Gate. They have a big selection & you quite often find some interesting stuff here, but their prices are not fun. As for live gigs, I don't have any listings with me at the moment, but buy Time Out when you arrive for a full list. The Wire also has a gig list for the more avant type of thing. There's loads of music on in London all the time, you should find something you'll like. Enjoy - there's more to London than Britpop & Beatle revivalists! Phil Clarkson phil@clarksonp.demon.co.uk - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stefan Verstraeten <stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be> Subject: Ekstasis : Wake Up And Dream Date: 27 Oct 1998 10:47:34 +0100 Does anyone know what is happening here: I heard some rumours about a new album by Ekstasis: Wake up and dream (by Bill Laswell and Nicky Skopelitis). Does anyone have some information on this album??? Is it a new album compared to the one on Axiom, or is it a reissue??? Best wishes to everybody... NP Revelator (Nicky Skopelitis and Raoul Bj=F6rkenheim). If you can lay your hands on this album (due to the problems with Douglas)..DO SO --=20 Stefan Verstraeten - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stefan Verstraeten <stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be> Subject: Cibo Mato / John Spencer Blues Explosion Date: 27 Oct 1998 11:27:25 +0100 Dear Zornies, If i am correct, i know there should be an album by the drummer of john spencer blues explosion and the beautiful ladies of cibo mato. Does anyone know the title of this album (and if possible the label) Best wishes -- Stefan Verstraeten - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be> Subject: Re: Cibo Mato / John Spencer Blues Explosion Date: 27 Oct 1998 11:51:13 +0100 > If i am correct, i know there should be an album by the drummer of john > spencer blues explosion and the beautiful ladies of cibo mato. > Does anyone know the title of this album (and if possible the label) The Group is called "Butter08" (apparently as an hommage to Marlon Brando's famous scene in Last Tango in Paris). The album is called "Butter" and is on the Beasty Boys' Grand Royal label (Mike Mills of the Label is also in Butter). Great Album, a bit more Punk than the Cibo Matto-output. Some tracks are on the recent Grand Royal Sampler, but go for the complete album. YVes - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Re: Ekstasis : Wake Up And Dream Date: 27 Oct 1998 06:54:09 -0500 At 10:47 AM 10/27/98 +0100, Stefan Verstraeten wrote: >Does anyone know what is happening here: > >I heard some rumours about a new album by Ekstasis: Wake up and dream >(by Bill Laswell and Nicky Skopelitis). > >Does anyone have some information on this album??? Is it a new album >compared to the one on Axiom, or is it a reissue??? cdnow has it prominently displayed on their worldbeat home page, and on sale. According to them, it had a release date of Oct 20, and is on EMD/Virgin, and has an original release date of 1998. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers -- Pablo Picasso - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org> Subject: Re: Ekstasis : Wake Up And Dream Date: 27 Oct 1998 06:28:24 -0800 At 06:54 AM 10/27/98 -0500, Caleb T. Deupree wrote: >cdnow has it prominently displayed on their worldbeat home page, and on >sale. According to them, it had a release date of Oct 20, and is on >EMD/Virgin, and has an original release date of 1998. It's out now. It got held up for a while because Bill didn't like the back cover. Jeff Spirer Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html B&W Photos, Words: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/ Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Vog Date: 27 Oct 1998 11:24:45 -0600 What can anyone tell me about Vog? I got a tape of it in the mail (thanks Fred) yesterday... I know this much already: Horvitz, Previte. It sounds like there is a sax in there somewhere. That's all. Thanks, Dan Hewins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Vog Date: 27 Oct 1998 09:39:30 -0800 On Tue, 27 Oct 1998 11:24:45 -0600 Dan Hewins wrote: > > What can anyone tell me about Vog? I got a tape of it in the mail (thanks > Fred) yesterday... I know this much already: Horvitz, Previte. It sounds > like there is a sax in there somewhere. That's all. This is all I know: *** - ???: Vog Recorded live Wayne Horvitz; Skerik; Bobby Previte; Reggie Watts (?). 1998 - Loosegroove (USA), ??? (CD) Note: not released yet (planned for Summer 1998). According to Wayne, this is one of his "noisy" project. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Egan <degan@excell.com> Subject: Re: Vog Date: 27 Oct 1998 09:45:10 -0800 As I recall, there were two live recording sessions for this band held this spring in Seattle, at the OK Hotel. I was at one of the sessions. Besides Horvitz and Previte, I think the lineup included Skerik, a mad sax-player about town and Tucker Martine and his table 'o stuff. Vog is short for Volcanic Fog, which described the sound of the band pretty accurately as I recall. How does the tape sound? Is there actually a CD in the works? - Dave Dan Hewins wrote: > What can anyone tell me about Vog? I got a tape of it in the mail > (thanks > Fred) yesterday... I know this much already: Horvitz, Previte. It > sounds > like there is a sax in there somewhere. That's all. > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Artur Nowak" <arno@silesia.top.pl> Subject: RE: London Help Date: 27 Oct 1998 18:51:53 +0100 Thanks for the precious info Phil! What about live shows during the next week? I'll be in London and it would be nice to hear some downtown music... __________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak [arno@silesia.top.DEATHTOSPAMMERS.pl] www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/default.htm - Discography of Bill Frisell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Artur Nowak" <arno@silesia.top.pl> Subject: London Help - again Date: 27 Oct 1998 18:55:56 +0100 What about live shows during the next week? I'll be in London and it would be nice to hear some downtown music... __________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak [arno@silesia.top.DEATHTOSPAMMERS.pl] www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/default.htm - Discography of Bill Frisell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jack Torrance" <kubrick@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: takemitsu,haino Date: 27 Oct 1998 11:46:25 PST >There is a disc on Nonesuch called 'The Film Music of Toru Takemitsu' >which is really good. Maybe you should start there. Thanks for your help.I already have the nonesuch CD.What I'm really looking for are the soundtracks to Kwaidan,The Face Of Another,The Pitfall,The Ruined Map and a few other films.As far as I knew none were available on CD.Some of this music might have made it onto the JVC Japan releases mentioned in the article.Anyone have or know the details of what's on them? I'm also looking for Takemitsu's musique concrete pieces such as Water Music.Does anyone know if any of these are available on CD? Thanks. Jack ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dominique Leone" <d_leone@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #512 Date: 27 Oct 1998 12:03:50 PST Can anyone tell me about Tatsuya Yoshida's solo albums? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dominique Leone" <d_leone@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #512 Date: 27 Oct 1998 12:03:50 PST Can anyone tell me about Tatsuya Yoshida's solo albums? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Newgarden <dn@panix.com> Subject: re: Haino Date: 27 Oct 1998 15:22:31 -0500 (EST) Haino solo night at Tonic (Thursday, Oct. 29) will be hurdy-gurdy for first set (9:00) and percussion & voice for 2nd set (10:30). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "M. van Santen" <mvansant@wxs.nl> Subject: Review John Zorn Chamber Ensemble Date: 27 Oct 1998 21:27:44 +0100 Hi, I'm new on this list, and I usually don't come out of my lurking-mode this quick, but i attended a zorn-gig last night, and i thought "let's post a review". "New Jewish Music: John Zorn Ensemble Presents Modern Chamber Music" was the official title of the evening at Nightown in Rotterdam (Holland). The full ensemble consisted of: John Zorn (composer/conductor), Marc Feldman (violin), Joyce Hammann (violin), Lois Martin (altviolin), Erik Friedlander (cello), Steve Drury (piano), Anthony Coleman (Keyboards), Willie Winant (percussion), Jim Pugliese (Percussion). The first piece was Music For Children (Piano, violin and percusion). The second piece was Cat Of 9 Tales for stringquartet. A very dynamic, fragmented piece. The guy sitting next to me thought it was a bit to long, but i didn't agree with him. Antan dun=E9 (?) was the only piece that Zorn actualy conducted (Violin, cello, piano/hammond organ, 2 x percusion). The audience laught a lot because of the funny 'soundeffects' (like one of the percusionists gurgeling in a bowl of water). It looked as if a lot of things where improvised, but i can't be too sure about that. The best piece so far. After a short break they continued with Dark River, a very moody piece for 4 basdrums. It was very beautifull and it was a shame that there was so mutch 'background'-noise from the audience. Carney, a piece for solo-piano was anounced as being written some jears ago and "revised today". = The second piece for stingquartet had a jewish name (something like colnedrai???). Zorn said: if you're jewish you know what that means. And if you're not jewish i don't give a shit what you think of it, what do ya think of that!" It was a far more serious piece than Cat Of 9 Tales and had some klezmer infuences. They ended with a gamepiece called Rugby (from 1983?). It was 'conducted' by Drury and preformed by everybody exept the three violin players but including Zorn himself on altosax. The preformance was as enjoyable to watch as to listen to. (BTW, does anybody know the 'rules' to this gamepiece?) Not having heard any of the compositions before, i can't realy say if the gig was realy very good (objectively speaking), but i enjoyed it a lot, so it was an excelent gig as far as i'm concerned. Can't wait 'till he comes back. Martyn - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jack Torrance" <kubrick@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: takemitsu,haino Date: 27 Oct 1998 11:46:25 PST >There is a disc on Nonesuch called 'The Film Music of Toru Takemitsu' >which is really good. Maybe you should start there. Thanks for your help.I already have the nonesuch CD.What I'm really looking for are the soundtracks to Kwaidan,The Face Of Another,The Pitfall,The Ruined Map and a few other films.As far as I knew none were available on CD.Some of this music might have made it onto the JVC Japan releases mentioned in the article.Anyone have or know the details of what's on them? I'm also looking for Takemitsu's musique concrete pieces such as Water Music.Does anyone know if any of these are available on CD? Thanks. Jack ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "schwitterZ" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Date: 27 Oct 1998 13:24:50 -0800 We still have bugs to work out and much to add, but the pfMENTUM website is up for those of you interested in keeping abreast of the New Music Concert Series in Ventura, California. We have received another site grant for 4 concerts at City Hall in the next year, so in addition to ongoing performances at the Daily Grind and elsewhere, we'll have 4 major events again this year. News will posted to site as available: http://members.aol.com/pfmentum/ s~Z - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Felix" <jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt> Subject: Re: an old thread... Date: 26 Oct 1998 22:54:52 +0100 >i'm not trying to resurrect the past, but i just picked up weird little boy. i >have to say that i rather enjoy it. i feel like i was looking for this type of >disc for a while. kinda noisy, kinda unpolished. i know some people had very >strong feelings about it, and i don't want to really get into this again (so >why am i posting this?) but there is at least one fan of this disc out here... Here's another! No matter what many people say, or even what T. Spruance says, I still like the CD very much. Particularly the brutality in "Lungfull of water". Felix jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: R-oxy <golgi@sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #512 Fantomas Info Date: 27 Oct 1998 17:40:03 -0500 Hey, This may be a bit late because I only get the digest version, but in regards to Fantomas: They played their first two gigs in June, in San Francisco. I happened to be in town so I was able to catch those gigs. Patton wrote all the music, and the band literally practised for only 5 days prior to the first show! Some days they would practise 14 hours straight... The music is very fast, very loud... very precise. Reminded me of Torture Garden to be honest.... not to say that Patton is residing in Zorn's shadow, but the music had several similarities. They are in the midst of a 2 week tour of the west coast (primarily), and have already recorded their first album which is to be released in the spring of '99. Also, on the new Tzadik Marc Bolan tribute, Fantomas has a song titled _Chariot Choogle_ which is rather good. In Mr. Bungle related news, the new album is set to be recorded this November and released next spring. That is all I have to say at this point in time. m. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "James Kirchmer" <jamesk@wolfenet.com> Subject: Good picture of Zorn? Date: 27 Oct 1998 15:28:27 -0800 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE01BE.71DA52A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi! If you have a good picture file of John Zorn and/or Masada=20 available, and you are willing out of kindness to help out a=20 member of the press, please email it as an attachment ASAP to: jamesk@wolfenet.com The picture might be used for publicity purposes and any appropriate credits would of course follow if need be. If you are reading this after the end of the business day on Wednesday don't bother sending anything. Thanks for listening, James Kirchmer ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE01BE.71DA52A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#d8d0c8> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hi!</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>If you have a good picture file of = John Zorn=20 and/or Masada </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>available, and you are willing out = of kindness=20 to help out a </FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>member of the press, </FONT><FONT = color=3D#000000=20 size=3D2>please email it as an attachment ASAP to:</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><A=20 href=3D"mailto:jamesk@wolfenet.com">jamesk@wolfenet.com</A></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>The picture might be used for = publicity purposes=20 and any</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>appropriate credits would of course = follow if=20 need be.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>If you are reading this after the = end of the=20 business day on</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Wednesday don't bother sending = anything.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Thanks for listening,</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>James Kirchmer</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BE01BE.71DA52A0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Avant/Bruce Ackley Date: 28 Oct 1998 00:04:08 -0500 (EST) > Can someone post or tell me where to find a list of all the Avant titles. I > just picked up 069, Bruce Ackley Trio. Greg Cohen swings like no other. > > Jeff Kent This is one of my favorite straight ahead jazz CDs I've heard this year. Actually I've liked all the Greg Cohen/Joey Baron CDs I've heard on Avant/Tzadik - well, actually I've just heard Anthony Coleman's Sephardic Tinge and Misha Mengelberg's Who's Bridge (actually Brad Jones is on bass on that one), so I guess I could say I like all 1 1/2 of them. The new Sephardic Tinge has Mike Sarin and Ben Street instead of Cohen and Baron, at first I was disappointed but they do a fine job. This is definately the most interesting and skewed, in a subtle way, piano trio CD I've heard this year. Not as catchy as the last Sephardic Tinge but its growing on me. Can anyone recommend the Nathanson/Coleman CD on Tzadik? As for Avant, I usually look at forced exposure but I don't think they have all of them listed... WY - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FJG_Lamerikx <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> Subject: Re: Review John Zorn Chamber Ensemble Date: 28 Oct 1998 07:19:03 +0100 (MET) Martyn attended the same gig I did. Martyn wrote: > "New Jewish Music: John Zorn Ensemble Presents Modern Chamber Music" was > the official title of the evening at Nightown in Rotterdam (Holland). > The full ensemble consisted of: John Zorn (composer/conductor), Marc > Feldman (violin), Joyce Hammann (violin), Lois Martin (altviolin), Erik > Friedlander (cello), Steve Drury (piano), Anthony Coleman (Keyboards), > Willie Winant (percussion), Jim Pugliese (Percussion). The pieces played were: 1. Music for Children (Feldman, Winant, Drury) 2. Cat O'Nine Tails (Feldman, Friedlander, Hammann, Martin) 3. Etant Donnes (Feldman, Friedlander, Winant, Pugliese, Coleman) ---- 4. Dark River (Pugliese, Winant) 5. Carny (Drury) 6. Kol Nidre (Feldman, Friedlander, Hammann, Martin) 7. Rugby (Drury - prompter, Winant, Coleman, Friedlander, Pugliese, Zorn) Quite a spectacular mix of pieces. I absolutely loved to see and hear the more abstract pieces: Music for Children, Etant Donnes, and Rugby. Cat O'Nine Tails sounds like a chamber version of Naked City to me. Seeing it live was much better than hearing it on a Kronos album, though. Dark River was awesome - now I heard what exactly my stereo is quite unable to reproduce. Carny was a feat of virtuosity, but other than that didn't do it for me. Drury was great in his execution of it, though. Kol Nidre is one of the best Jewish things Zorn has done so far. An utterly brilliant minimalist chamber piece, beautiful. The best piece of the evening, however, was Rugby. Nice to hear Zorn on sax (this would otherwise have been the second show I've been to that he didn't play). Winant and Pugliese were awesome throughout. On the game piece cards were written words like "TRANSPOSITION" and "INTERCUT". It seemed that all the way through musicians would form groups to counter or add to what was being played. Groups would vary from solo to including everyone present. Drury was busy but decisive in his prompting - a real joy for me to actually see a game piece performed. I had a little word with Winant afterwards. He told me he was going to record a Zorn piece with Mike Patton and Dave Lombardo. Furthermore, he didn't know yet whether he was going to be on the new Mr. Bungle album. He said they were very secretive about the whole thing. Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: graham connah Date: 29 Oct 1998 00:38:05 +1100 After enjoying Graham Connah's Sour Note Six "My God Has Fleas", I decided to pick up Sour Note Seven "Gurney To The Lincoln Center Of Your Mind". I was a bit cautious about the fact that the seventh factor was a vocalist. But now I've got it, I think the vocals are great. So my request is, can anyone recommend anything like Graham Connah's stuff, or anything with this style of singing in it (I hope someone else has this album)... For those of you who don't know, the Six is Connah on piano, Ben Goldberg on clarinet, Trevor Dunn on bass, Elliot Kavee on drums, Rob Sudduth on sax and Marty Wehner on trombone, while the seven adds vocalist Jewlia Eisenberg. According to some website, most of these musicians are also playing on a recent or upcoming release by some guy who I don't know (but some of you might) named Eric Crystal. Anyway... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Anzelotti/Satie Date: 28 Oct 1998 09:09:18 -0500 Steve Smith had inquired about this release a coupla weeks back, so: This is a recording on Winter & Winter of Teodoro Anzelotti performing a selection of Erik Satie piano pieces on accordion. I'm not sure how many Satie fans dwell on this list; I'm very much of one, having cut my teeth on the recordings by Aldo Ciccolini on Angel and I've, fairly or otherwise, always held Ciccolini's approach, his tempi, touch, etc. as the ideal. Occasionally, I'd pick up recordings by other pianists and, more often than not, become annoyed at clipped tempi or mechanical, soulless readings of tunes I felt should have been taken leisurely or played with a wistful or melancholy air. Well, Anzelotti acquits himself admirably. He plays with grace and sensitivity, bending the pieces to his ends with subtlety e.g., slowing down some of the Gnossienes to an almost Feldman-like stasis. Happily, the selections, aside from the six Gnossienes and the ubiquitous 1st Gymnopedie, are drawn from less well known corners of Satie's output. True, there are only a handful of pieces where Anzelotti brings some "accordion-ness" to the proceedings, getting effects unobtainable from a piano; otherwise he simply plays the work as written, but does so quite beautifully. Highly recommended. Also picked up 'Smash! Clap!', the new Tzadik release by Naftule's Dream. At it's best a fun mix of klez and free jazz, at worst some clunky, thudding rockish songs. Not bad, they sound like they'd be enjoyable to hear live. The clarinetist (I forget his name) stands out as a fine player. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar Subject: Avant/Bruce Ackley Date: 28 Oct 1998 14:01:10 -0300 Jeff Kent wrote: >Can someone post or tell me where to find a list of all the Avant >titles WY wrote: >As for Avant, I usually look at Forced Exposure but I don't think they I used to receive by mail DIW and Avant free catalog from Soul Note, but they stopped doing so. Never knew the reasons. I'm also interested to know where to get all the titles they have. >definately the most interesting and skewed, in a subtle way, piano tri >CD I've heard this year. You can also check out _No Idea_ on DIW, with Mengelberg, Cohen and Baron. I just picked it up and it's an amazing and terrific cd with all jazz standards. IMHO, highly recommended. -Hugo - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vlad-Drac@webtv.net (Theo Klaase) Subject: Zorn's Bribe Date: 28 Oct 1998 11:44:15 -0600 (CST) I just bought Zorn's new album "the Bribe" and felt a quick review maybe in order. The album is inspired in-part by the Spillane recordgin he did in the late '80's. Although the musicians have changed somewhat, the continuity is clear. Zorn himself has never sounded better on the sax. Robert Quine is so-so but everyone else shines brightly. Horvitz and Coleman slice and dice just as you might imagine. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that while it's not my favorite Zorn album, it's certainly one to aquire. }Theodorus-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vlad-Drac@webtv.net (Theo Klaase) Subject: Zony Mash Date: 28 Oct 1998 11:55:03 -0600 (CST) The new Zony Mash features a band that has had a chance to develope their unique sound. While a lot like the "Cold Spell" in sound, the songs have been fine tuned -- probably due to all that touring they've been up to. Horvitz is especially thoughtful and brilliant as one can expect. I'm still not sure that I like the album as much as "Cold Spell" but I will NOT say anything derogatory about it! A must for any Horvitz nut. The only weak spot is sometimes timothy young doesn't impress me as a guitarist. You can hear a few clips at cdnow,com or check out the Zony Mash website at www.zonymash.com Take care Zornies! }Theodorus-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: New Tim Berne box Date: 28 Oct 1998 10:23:01 PST Most of you who care might know, but just in case, the new reissue of Tim Berne old Empire albums is out, in a 5CD box set. I saw the notice on the Screwgun site: http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/ssmith36/news.html Bye-ya, s ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: Off topic - CD sale Date: 28 Oct 1998 13:24:14 EST Fellow Zorn list members, If anyone is interested, I've just acquired pretty much the entire Telarc CD catalog. I have most of the jazz titles listed, but haven't started the classical yet. Feel free to ask for a listof the jazz titles, and if there are any specific classical titles you want, I'll try to find them. This time around, $7.00 per disc or 4 for $25.00 plus minimal postage; and other than being promo embossed discs, they're all immaculate on the CD and packaging. I've got quite a project here and need your help! :-) Thanks, Dale. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TagYrIt@aol.com Subject: Re: Zony Mash Date: 28 Oct 1998 13:20:02 EST In a message dated 98-10-28 12:57:55 EST, Theo Klaase writes: << The only weak spot is sometimes timothy young doesn't impress me as a guitarist. >> I've been listening to the new Zony Mash a lot lately, and I absolutely concur with this. Young frequently sounds confused or lost in these tunes....I thought I might have been missing something, but apparently not. To my ears, the band in general is a lot more telepathic and experimental.....there's much more outside experimentation and adventurousness this time around. And generally, I like it much more then the first one. Much more Horvitz, much less Meters. Dale. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Kip Hanrahan Date: 28 Oct 1998 13:23:20 -0500 Anyone heard Hanrahan's 'Shadow Nights 1' yet, recently released by Justin Time/American Clave? Much as I like his work (especially the mid to late 80's things), I'm beginning to get the suspicion that lately he's simply been draining the vaults. Wondering how long Don Pullen's going to continue appearing on KH's issues. Brian Olewnick PS. The same label just reissued Hanrahan's 'Vertical's Currency'--a must have. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Kip Hanrahan Date: 28 Oct 1998 11:08:56 -0800 On Wed, 28 Oct 98 13:23:20 -0500 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > > Anyone heard Hanrahan's 'Shadow Nights 1' yet, recently released by > Justin Time/American Clave? Much as I like his work (especially the ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Does anybody know when this deal started (Justin Time reissuing American Clave)? Also, is SHADOW NIGHTS 1 a reissue? I just have the memory of something with a similar title issued a few years ago. Also, besides VERTICAL'S CURRENCY, is there any other reissue availalble/ planned? Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Caulfield Bivins <jbivins@indiana.edu> Subject: Ackley/Ross Date: 28 Oct 1998 14:15:10 -0500 (EST) Hi, I'm curious to hear about Ackley's "straight-ahead" disc. Not that the ROVA boys don't have roots, but how close to the mainstream does this one get? Are they Ackley's tunes or rep tunes? Also, does anyone have any info on Brandon Ross' group Harriet Tubman? I know the lineup, but can someone describe the sound, aims, etc. if possible? Thanks, Jason Bivins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Graham Connah Date: 28 Oct 1998 16:35:59 -0500 (EST) > > But now I've got it, I think the vocals are great. So my request is, can > > anyone recommend anything like Graham Connah's stuff, or anything with this > > style of singing in it (I hope someone else has this album)... > > Actually it reminded me of some of that good old prog rock. National > Health and Hatfield and the North both had that habit of doubling the > voice with another lead instrument, as well as using the voice as > just another lead instrument in the ensemble, rather than as the focus > of our attention. I liked this one too. I thought the vocals reminded me of Threadgill's _Carry the Day_ and even Frank Zappa. I was also wondering who else did this kind of thing. The singer on Connah's CD still has a limited role, no improvising or anything. WY - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale <jhale@sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: Kip Hanrahan Date: 28 Oct 1998 17:55:28 -0500 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > > Anyone heard Hanrahan's 'Shadow Nights 1' yet, recently released by > Justin Time/American Clave? It's puzzling, to say the least. The liner notes are mostly illegible... overprinted metallic ink on a script font. Some of the musicians pictured in the booklet, like Cindy Blackman, don't appear on any of the tracks. Also strange is the fact that there are track-by-track listings for 13 pieces, but the CD player says there are 16 tracks. Needless to say, it's a little difficult to follow what's what. It sounds like Pullen's on five tracks. The pieces were recorded between '94 and '96. How's it sound? Interesting, especially the Pullen tracks, though I find the 'story line' (basically The Arabian Nights superimposed on The Bronx... shades of that recent film version of Romeo & Juliet in Miami) impossible to comprehend. Perhaps you have to hear all 10 volumes!!! As to Patrice's question... Justin Time will release four American Clave recordings, including a new recording by Deep Rumba. James Hale - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Avant/Bruce Ackley Date: 28 Oct 1998 18:09:47 EST In a message dated 10/28/98 12:28:56 PM, hulinare@bemberg.com.ar wrote: <<I used to receive by mail DIW and Avant free catalog from Soul Note, but they stopped doing so. Never knew the reasons. I'm also interested to know where to get all the titles they have.>> Soul Note isn't distributing DIW and Avant any more, Koch is. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "andrew johnny shay." <bobtj@wwa.com> Subject: o'rourke, gastr del sol, ribot... Date: 28 Oct 1998 18:38:17 -0600 (CST) Hey, I've just picked up O'Rourke's "Happy Days," and it's a right swell release, but after terminal pharmacy I was hopeing for some more-or-less straight guitar work along the lines of his track on the Meme compilation, or "Happy Days" up til the 12-ish minute mark. Any suggestions...? Also I recently picked up the "mirror..." ep by Gastr Del Sol, and the music is interesting but the lyrics seem pretty silly and contrived, and they lose me fast.. How do their other releases compair? How's the new disc? I was also wondering how the new Ribot record, "...the prosthetic cubans" is...or where to start with the lad generally... And thank you. kisses, andy. + andrew johnny shay bobtj@wwa.com ;; http://web.wwa.com/~bobtj/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: TWHY666@aol.com Subject: off subject...Lip Cream? Date: 28 Oct 1998 20:41:45 EST Does anyone know where i could find the albums by Lip Cream "Lip Cream", and "Shocking Disc Terror". There thanked under Torture Garden album but i can never find any of there album. Plus really off subject... does anyone know where to find Muslimgauze "Islamiphobia" there was only 600 made? Well thanks! Chad - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Kip Hanrahan Date: 28 Oct 1998 17:50:38 -0800 On Wed, 28 Oct 1998 17:55:28 -0500 James Hale wrote: > > As to Patrice's question... Justin Time will release four American Clave > recordings, including a new recording by Deep Rumba. And this includes the DNA 12" EP? Patrice (who takes his dreams for reality). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Dresser Date: 29 Oct 1998 13:05:20 GMT0BST anyone got details of the forthcoming Mark Dresser kfw cd? (also the Marie McAuliffe Bacherach cd is out in Nov. - done at Zorn's suggestion, i recall?) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stefan Verstraeten <stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be> Subject: fear no fall (new cd) Date: 29 Oct 1998 14:54:51 +0100 Dear Zornlisters, Just letting you all know there is a fine belgian label, called Lowlands that put out an interesting CD. It is called Fear no Fall, and it is a sort of supergroup. It features Jim O'rourke, Zeena Parkins, Toshinori Kondo, David Shea, DJ Low and Dirk Wachtelaer. No compositions, mere improvisation. But hey, don't expect uncontrolled noise, no all these people seem to understand each other very well. Defenitely check out track 3, a duet between Shea and O'Rourke... subtle, even quite romantic playing going on around here. The label is Lowlands, and they can be reached at: lowlands@innet.be Best wishes -- Stefan Verstraeten NP Murder Ballads (Mick Harris, Bates)... hauntingly beautiful. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sean Terwilliger <seanter@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Kip Hanrahan Date: 29 Oct 1998 10:17:20 -0500 > On Wed, 28 Oct 98 13:23:20 -0500 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > > > > Anyone heard Hanrahan's 'Shadow Nights 1' yet, recently released by > > Justin Time/American Clave? Much as I like his work (especially the > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Anyone know where to get this in the US? I've checked most of the regular on-line places... -Sean - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "m. rizzi" <rizzi@netcom.com> Subject: Re: off subject...Lip Cream? Date: 29 Oct 1998 09:38:43 -0800 (PST) TWHY666@aol.com, demi-God and Icon sez: > > Does anyone know where i could find the albums by Lip Cream "Lip Cream", >and "Shocking Disc Terror". There thanked under Torture Garden album but i can >never find any of there album. They were a hardcore punk band from Japan (early '80s?). I've only seen their recordings once, and that was in the massive MaximumRockNRoll archive in S.F. I imagine, real hard to find. hmmm...I now have a faint memory of a compilation LP that they are on...I'll have to ask around. mike -- rizzi@netcom.com -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com "Another nerd with a soulpatch" -------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 ------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: off subject...Lip Cream? Date: 29 Oct 1998 13:17:05 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 29 Oct 1998, m. rizzi wrote: > They were a hardcore punk band from Japan > (early '80s?). I've only seen their recordings > once, and that was in the massive MaximumRockNRoll > archive in S.F. I imagine, real hard to find. mrr archives? i'd like to hear more about that! b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: a rancid amoeba <rancid@best.com> Subject: Re: off subject...Lip Cream? Date: 29 Oct 1998 13:02:49 -0800 (PST) > > They were a hardcore punk band from Japan > > (early '80s?). I've only seen their recordings > > once, and that was in the massive MaximumRockNRoll > > archive in S.F. I imagine, real hard to find. > > mrr archives? i'd like to hear more about that! MRR has basically kept a library of everything they've received. They have more 7"s then you can even imagine existing and of course in their archive is exceptionally rare stuff. If you ever see a 12"/7" cover that's been taped along the 3 closed sides with wide green tape, you'll know it's probably been stolen from MRR (it happens occasionally). And since this is the closest this list will ever get to punk/ hardcore & MRR, I'm going to take advantage of this moment to mention that I'm doing Book Your Own Fuckin' Life for 1999. If you're involved with anything punk/hardcore related (radio, label, store, distro, club, etc), get on over to http://www.byofl.org/ to submit an entry for the print guide and searchable web site. Deadline is Feb 1 to make it into the print guide; of course the web site will be perpetually ongoing. Spread the word to any appropriate friends (instructions on how to submit if you don't have web access are on the back cover of MRR). chanel (waiting for the 50 flames that this isn't a punk/HC list) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ http://www.arancidamoeba.com/ rancid@best.com r e c o r d l a b e l s o n t h e w e b future home of a rancid amoeba records - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale <jhale@sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: Kip Hanrahan Date: 29 Oct 1998 17:43:39 -0500 Sean Terwilliger wrote: > > > On Wed, 28 Oct 98 13:23:20 -0500 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > > > > > > Anyone heard Hanrahan's 'Shadow Nights 1' yet, recently released by > > > Justin Time/American Clave? Much as I like his work (especially the > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > Anyone know where to get this in the US? I've checked most of the > regular on-line places... It's being distributed by Distribution North America in Woodland, CA. James Hale - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Kip Hanrahan Date: 30 Oct 1998 01:08:30 -0500 Sean Terwilliger wrote: > > > Anyone heard Hanrahan's 'Shadow Nights 1' yet, recently released by > > > Justin Time/American Clave? Much as I like his work (especially the > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > Anyone know where to get this in the US? I've checked most of the > regular on-line places... "Temporarily delayed" said the US publicist for Justin Time when I asked several weeks ago (i.e., the moment after I saw the ad in the last Down Beat). I'll try to get better info... I'm as interested as anybody. "Desire Develops an Edge" is one of my all-time favorite records, and "Vertical's Currency" ain't far behind. Be that as it may, I do share Brian Olewnick's view that it seems like a long, long time since we've heard anything truly new from Kip. But it's my understanding that the licensing deals with Nonesuch (see below if this is news) and Justin Time were made more or less expressly so that Kip could continue to make new recordings -- apparently he's even never come close to making money on any of his critically acclaimed and presumably increasingly expensive projects, and most likely Astor Piazzolla was the only relative bestseller in the American Clave label's history. BTW it may already be common knowledge, but for anyone who hasn't heard, the license for the great trilogy of Piazzolla discs on American Clave (including his all-time best single disc representation, "Tango Zero Hour"), previously held by Rounder, has been picked up by Nonesuch, at least in the US. I believe their version of "Tango Zero Hour" may already be on the market. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "m. rizzi" <rizzi@netcom.com> Subject: Re: off subject...Lip Cream? Date: 29 Oct 1998 23:30:41 -0800 (PST) a rancid amoeba, demi-God and Icon sez: > >MRR has basically kept a library of everything they've received. >They have more 7"s then you can even imagine existing and of >course in their archive is exceptionally rare stuff. If you >ever see a 12"/7" cover that's been taped along the 3 closed >sides with wide green tape, you'll know it's probably been stolen >from MRR (it happens occasionally). Not true, actually. Tim Yo was (sadly, he passed away this past spring) famous for periodically culling the archive and selling it to local record stores. We've bought many an MRR cast off that wasn't "punk enough," but was an excellent addition to the radio station library I maintain. When Tim knew that he was dying, he was particularly ruthless in his purging the library. The feeding frenzy at Amoeba and Epicenter was entertaining and fun. rizzi - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar Subject: Anthony Coleman Date: 30 Oct 1998 10:54:25 -0300 Hi Zornlisters, Your opinions, please. First: What nationality is Anthony Coleman? Second:Any recommendations/comments on his cds (apart from the first Sephardic Tinge)? Thank in advance. Hugo - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Whoops, I'm an Indian Date: 30 Oct 1998 10:01:50 -0500 This is the debut album by Hal Wilner (as performer/composer) on the Pussyfoot label. Apparently consisting almost entirely of samples augmented by a band that includes Ralph Carney. Anyone heard/seen it yet? Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Molestando@aol.com Subject: Music Romance Vol. I : Music for Children Date: 30 Oct 1998 10:28:08 EST Does anyone know the U.S. release date for this record? Any info is surely appreciated. LEVI molestando@aol.com ps- Mason is a wiener. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sean Terwilliger <seanter@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Hanrahan Date: 30 Oct 1998 10:58:59 -0500 It seems to me, that the new Shadow Nights CD is exactly the same as Thousand Nights and A night, released last year. The track listing @ tower and CD connection is the same, the cover image is the same... Perhaps Justin Time is just re-issuing the series with a new title??? They've got a Shadow nights 2 listed as forthcoming on their site. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Whoops, I'm an Indian Date: 30 Oct 1998 12:53:21 EST In a message dated 10/30/98 10:19:50 AM, brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: <<This is the debut album by Hal Wilner (as performer/composer) on the Pussyfoot label. Apparently consisting almost entirely of samples augmented by a band that includes Ralph Carney. Anyone heard/seen it yet? Brian Olewnick>> I bought a copy of this yesterday at Other Music, largely based on the well- written review at Simon Hopkins' Motion site (http://www.state51.co.uk/motion/). I haven't heard it yet. still recovering from the power of Keiji Haino, Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jtalbot@massart.edu Subject: yankees Date: 30 Oct 1998 13:50:40 -0500 i just saw the re-issue of "yankees" in the record store yesterday. when was this released? any reviews of the album would be appreciated. also someone mentioned a new zorn piece to be recorded by dave lombardo and mike patton. anyone know aything about this piece? thanks mucho. jt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vlad-Drac@webtv.net (Theo Klaase) Subject: PIGPEN Date: 30 Oct 1998 17:43:23 -0600 (CST) I have Pigpen's "Half Rack" album and I think it's just great....Does anyone know how good the other albums are? Which one is best, etc....? Any info appreciated. (Email me pivately) Thanks! }Theodorus-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pequet@altern.org (Benjamin Pequet) Subject: aller et a venir in mons, belgium Date: 31 Oct 1998 01:52:30 +0100 Here is the schedule of the concerts at LA MEDIATHEQUE in Mons, Belgium for this season. And an announcement for the magazine they publish. RESEAU D'EXPRESSIONS LIBRES The concerts start at 4 or 5 pm. 100 BEF Auditorium de la Mediatheque 24 rue de la Seuwe, Ilot de la Grand-Place 7000 Mons, Belgium, tel +32 65 311349 21/11 5 pm Arnaud Methivier 05/12 4 pm Leonid Soybelman Jean-Marc Montera + Dominique Regef 23/01 4 pm Luzmilia Carpio 06/03 5 pm Gunter Muller + Voice Crack DISCO GRAPHIE (LA REVUE MUSICALE ANTI-FUN) is a magazine published every other month or so, that I consider unique in the perspective of a critical approach to contemporary expressions, the last edition is already number 24. This is for if you read French. Please contact: P. Hemptinne, La Mediatheque, 24 rue de la Seuwe, 7000 Mons, Belgium, tel +32 65 311349, fax +32 65 312603 (or email me and I will forward or try to answer) Benjamin Pequet - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> Subject: Re: Kip Hanrahan Date: 30 Oct 1998 22:46:13 -0500 At 01:23 PM 10/28/98 -0500, brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > > Anyone heard Hanrahan's 'Shadow Nights 1' yet, recently released by > Justin Time/American Clave? Much as I like his work (especially the > mid to late 80's things), I'm beginning to get the suspicion that > lately he's simply been draining the vaults. Wondering how long Don > Pullen's going to continue appearing on KH's issues. I've kind of been hoping someone else might have had more definite information, but I remember reading somewhere (the exact reference eludes me) that Hanrahan had some large number (16 sticks in my head, but that's admittedly a large number) of albums in the can. Although further discussion of Shadow Nights leads me to think it's a rename of a previous release, perhaps we can expect previously unreleased material from the band at some point in the future. -- Caleb Deupree cdeupree@erinet.com Computers are useless; they can only give you answers -- Pablo Picasso - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> Subject: Re: Kip Hanrahan Date: 30 Oct 1998 22:59:15 -0500 Caleb T. Deupree wrote: > I've kind of been hoping someone else might have had more definite > information, but I remember reading somewhere (the exact reference eludes > me) that Hanrahan had some large number (16 sticks in my head, but that's > admittedly a large number) of albums in the can. Although further > discussion of Shadow Nights leads me to think it's a rename of a previous > release, perhaps we can expect previously unreleased material from the band > at some point in the future. Yeah, I'm totally confused now as to whether this one's new or not. One point though: I think Sean mentioned that he thought the covers of the previous release and this one were the same. They're not; ATON&AN had a burnt orange-ish cover with, I think Cindy Blackman's photo. This one has a purple-ish blue cover with, I'm guessing, Lucy Penabaz. But Steve said the new one's had delayed distribution in the US and I saw this one in Tower (NYC) over a week ago. Maybe this is just the latest step in Hanrahan's willful obscurantism. If anyone can straighten this out decisively, please do! Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: PIGPEN Date: 31 Oct 1998 15:23:45 +1100 > I have Pigpen's "Half Rack" album and I think it's just great....Does > anyone know how good the other albums are? Which one is best, etc....? > > Any info appreciated. (Email me pivately) Thanks! I've got Daylight and Miss Ann. The former contains some slower parts on piano and electric piano and my impression of it is generally jazzier. Miss Ann is a bit more weird, using more fusion-style keyboard sounds, and covering Triggerfingers and Eric Dolphy's Miss Ann. I've heard that V As In Victim (on the Avant label) is great too, and have been searching for it at a reasonable price, to no avail. It seems that all their cds are great. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Ackley/Dresser/Justin Time/Piazzola etc Date: 31 Oct 1998 00:47:35 -0500 (EST) > I'm curious to hear about Ackley's "straight-ahead" disc. Not that the > ROVA boys don't have roots, but how close to the mainstream does this one > get? Are they Ackley's tunes or rep tunes? They're mostly original, with one by Duck Baker (one of the best). When I said straight ahead, I basically meant it has changes, most of the time, and is in countable (swing) time. Also not a lot of extended techniques. I would say this IS mainstream, but if Verve and Blue Note and all that stuff is mainstream, then its not. > > > anyone got details of the forthcoming Mark Dresser kfw cd? > It's going to be Dresser, Anthony Coleman, and Chris Speed, based on what they said in the newsletter that came with their last batch. (also the Marie McAuliffe Bacherach cd is out in Nov. - done at > Zorn's suggestion, i recall?) Its 12 songs and about 45 minutes long, and its all as reworked, or more so, than the one on the GReat Jewish Music CD. Aren't most of the Avant CDs Zorn's suggestions (asking, not being a smartass...) > >the great trilogy of Piazzolla discs on American > Clave (including his all-time best single disc representation, "Tango > Zero Hour"), previously> held by Rounder, has been picked up by > Nonesuch, at least in the US. I believe> their version of "Tango Zero > Hour" may already be on the market. > It is, I saw it last month, for a pretty low price actually ($11.99 compared to 14.99 for most Nonesuch CDs). Didn't get it though, yet. WY > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sulacco@aol.com Subject: Re: Re: PIGPEN Date: 31 Oct 1998 01:56:10 EST In a message dated 10/30/98 23:34:16, you wrote: >I've heard that V As In > >Victim (on the Avant label) is great too this record is fantastic. buy it at any cost. i can't compare it to any of the others, but i really like it. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Keiji Haino Date: 31 Oct 1998 17:46:00 EST Well, here's a quick recap of the first two nights of the NYC three-night Haino festival: Friday night's two sets with Mark Dresser and Joey Baron were certainly fascinating, but on a purely musical level, I didn't find them exceptional. Before the concert, I couldn't quite conceive of how this trio would mesh their differing styles. What ended up being the case was that Haino pushed his sound toward that of Dresser and Baron, at times reminding me a bit of Wes Montgomery, believe it or not (although, to be fair, my knowledge of jazz guitar is fairly limited). They did push a bit towards the noisier side at times, but by and large, the sets were fairly controlled. It was nice to see a different facet of Haino, but the music only occasionally bordered on transcendent, in stark contrast to the previous night. The highlight for me was the ending piece to the first set, where Baron spurred Haino on to a higher state of frenzy than was evident the rest of the night. The previous night, Thursday, featured a solo set of Haino on hurdy-gurdy and a solo set of percussion and vocals. The hurdy-gurdy record I have by Haino (the PSF one, I've heard the Tokuma one is superior) didn't prepare me for the range of sounds that Haino conjured out of the instrument. More than anything, it reminded me of Tony Conrad, but much, much less rigorish. I'm not sure how he was doing it, but Haino really used the sound system well, with different noises flying all over the room. I felt he lost his way a few times during the set, but each time he recovered nicely after a few minutes, and went on to dazzle. the ambience was great also, with the room being almost completely dark, incense burning, a red velvet backdrop, and Haino wearing what looked like priest's robes as opposed to his standard leather pants. he also did some very muted, ghostly whispered vocals. all in all, a very powerful, spiritual set. the percussion and vocal set was performed on a single drum, to which numerous effects had been attached. he also had a mike right up next to his mouth, and for much of the concert inside his mouth. the sounds he was getting from his trademark shriek/screams were far more nuanced than I've ever heard on record; it was stunning to me that the human voice, no matter how processed, could create sounds so seemingly industrial and electronic. as for the percussion, he occasionally ran out of ideas here also, but usually compensated for that with sheer power. he was using a pair of mallets for most of the set, and for the last fifteen minutes or so, one was clearly gradually splintering. the set ended just after he broke this mallet into two pieces, one of which came flying into the front row. I enjoyed the first half hour of this set more than any other Haino I've seen, I think. I'm not attending tonight, but I'd love to hear about it. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: New address for Screwgun website Date: 31 Oct 1998 20:16:05 -0500 Hi all - Just a note to let you know that the Screwgun website has moved to http://www.screwgunrecords.com Update your address books and bookmarks, and please do let me know if you find any bugs or broken links... I've spent the last few days trying to debug the whole site, but certainly might have missed something. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com -