> The new Wayside catalog lists a Pulnoc album called "Live in New York."
> Has anybody heard this? Is it the same as the "Live at PS122" tape?
I know that there IS a live Plastic People CD that recently came out from their Czech label recorded earlier this year. The New York show is on July 18th at Irving Plaza- first time they've played
here in the States and the only date they have planned in the States right now as far as I know.
In my opinion some of the most exciting rhytmically albums are not for drums solo.
The most prominent example would be Miles davis "filles de kilimanjaro". Tony Williams plays incredible stuff there, but it's the whole band that makes it a rythmical masterpiece (although i would love to buy the rythm section tracks from these album, without horns... well i love shorter and davis, but...).
Btw were there any jz or related cover versions of the stuff (petit machins:-)from "kilimanjaro"? It's an absolutly incredible album.
Another great miles davis rythm album is "dark magus". From the same period as agharta or panagea but MUCH BETTER. Intersting for those who are looking for percussive music ( there are 3 guitars, a bass, 2 saxes, a trumpet, a drummer and a percussionist)
Yet another exxelent example of gruop rhytmical playing can be found on '80s crimson records, especially discipline. How a whole band can become a schizoid rythm section...
Also fripp&league of crafty guitarists would be interesting. It's extremly rythmical music, despite there is no drums- acoustic guitars only.
bye,
---
Marcin Gokieli
mkkgokieli@mailexcite.com
"Ale jesli czlowiek nieszczesliwy, choc wielkiego serca, na los swoj raczej oburzony niz upadly na
duchu i zalamany, zyczy sobie smierci, lecz zycie swe zachowuje, nie ze sklonnosci lub bojazni, lecz
z obowiazku - wtedy dopiero maksyma jego ma tresc moralna."
> Brian has been at this a bit longer than me, so trust him.
Hold on, let me drag these creaking bones out here....;-)
>However, I will say I am partial to Bob's Gallery, maybe because it was >the first Breuker I bought.
I must say, this release shows up often on people's recs for prime
Breuker (maybe it was the first to get semi-decent distribution in North
America). I find it a bit stilted, but others may not.
>Of the others above, De Ondersteen is more interesting than good,
>as it is a compilation of various Breuker obscurities. Some of it is >great, some not. Not what I would consider a first purchase. The one >on About Time is great, and still available on vinyl from Cadence.
Hasn't About Time released (or planned to release) the three Threadgill
Sextett things? If so, perhaps a re-release of Breuker is in the offing.
That label has perhaps the highest career batting average in history, by
the way, what with these great issues plus Jerome Cooper, etc.
> Question for Brian: Is European Scene the same as Live at >Donauschingen that came out on MPS CD a couple of years ago? Same era, >so I just wondered. If not, I'll probably have to hunt down a vinyl >copy of that one too. The MPS is very good.
Yep, it's the same. I was using the original LP title. The first side is
the same set they played when I first saw them, at Environ in 1977
(*creak*). I hadn't heard Breuker at all at the time, and only
associated his name with the Euro free improv scene so went expecting
some typical "insect music"; took about a half-hour to pry my jaw from
Sean Wilkie send a comment about adorno's views of music, to which i would like add my two cents
-BTW, some two years ago there was a discussion - which i started -on this list about similarities and differences between fripp and zorn. At some point, somebody used this 2cnts exdpression, someone replied, and added that he also does, BUT, as he is canadian, he adds tho canadian cents, so it's a little bit less... Sop someone remarked they could start to collect thes cents to buy a japanese edition 3cd version of painkiller... "what i didn't know about the 3 cd edition" "oh well, it cost $$..."... Thats how Crim discussion ended. It's beautiful to see the strange manner in which topics come and go, and reemerge on such lists...
But, back to the subject of my mail...
I believe that adorno's vision of culture, society and value is completly different from the one present (or rather inmplied by)in John Zorn's work. In fact, Adorno's critique of mass culture as included in dialectics of the enlightment is based on a kind of "knowledge what is right". His (OK, he wrote the book with horkheimmer, it's not only his fault...) vison relies heavyly on the idea of absolute musical standard, and what is even more importatnt - a kind of hate towards ordinary people's use of music. He knows what music is (or at least he thinks he does), so he can declare what is right and what is wrong, on the other side - JZ does not, so he tries to DO some interesting, create good music, and by this fact, redifine to some point what "good music" really is. JZ treats sounds; all kinds of music people do - and kinds of things people do with music - as something interesting, as a new, intersting point, something which is interesting. For adorno, making music is enetring a kind of competition with the classics. for Zorn it's a infinite creation.
I think that two authors can provide a good theoretical background for an analisys of the kind of music we are interested in: Alasdair MacIntyre with hi s virtue ethics that rely in an important way on a kind of an antiinstitutional, living tradition, and respect for people passions, and Kantian ethics with its equal respect for ordinary and the idea of "act from duty", by which we could analyse the differnence between other musics and the one(s) JZ does.
see you and good luck holland - you're going to win the whole thing...
---
Marcin Gokieli
mkkgokieli@mailexcite.com
"If adversity and hopeless sorrow have completely taken away the relish for life; if the unfortunate one, strong in mind, indignant at his fate rather than desponding or dejected, wishes for death,and yet preserves his life without loving it- not from inclination or fear, but from duty- then his maxim has a moral worth." :-)
Immanuel Kant, 1724-1804
Fundamental Principles of the Metaphysic of Morals
>Musical Quarterly (spring 1992, volume 76, number one) by Theodore A.
>Gracyk, titled "Adorno, Jazz and the Aesthetics of Popular Music,
>which takes a very good standpoint against Adorno's ideas about
>popular music with the use of his own theories. Art-music regarding
>to Adorno has three aspects: atonality, social relevance and freedom
>of form. They all come back in Zorn's music and in jazz from the
>50's, but Adorno never said he was wrong.
>In this view he's characteristic for a certain behaviour very common
>to aestheticians and sociologists in postmodern society: the
>struggle for legitimicy within the high-arts and the fear of the
>dissapearing borders between popular and non-popular art.
I complety agree with you. But remark that's this man intellectual stanpoint implies such attitude: the idea of magical-metaphisycal knowledge some (ie adorno, horkheiimer, and maybe, to a certain degree, heidegger) have, and which is inaccessible, and has nothing to do, with the ordinary man thionking about the world (compare him to JL Austin, late Wittgenstein, or even Kant).
>> PS I think Stam fouled Ortega. But I was rooting for the Dutch.
>....
no he did not...
Marcin Gokieli
mkkgokieli@mailexcite.com
"IF I HAD KNOWN IT WAS HARMLESS I WOULD HAVE KILLED IT MYSELF"
Sorry for disturbing everyone, as it concerns only a small minority of people on the list...
I am a vocalist of a band that plays some nice (well, it can help wou to wake up and go to work with a smile...;-) music. We are going to release an album (our first!) this automn. We are from Poland, and i thought that maybe people from this list could send me some info aabout ways of organizing a few shows in central europe (Germany, Austria, Hungary, Czech Republic, Maybe Holland, France...) Any help/info (adresses of clubs, any hints, etc.) would be great.
Sorry for disturbing all you in the US etc,
Marcin Gokieli
mkkgokieli@mailexcite.com
"If adversity and hopeless sorrow have completely taken away the
relish for life; if the unfortunate one, strong in mind, indignant at
his fate rather than desponding or dejected, wishes for death,and yet
preserves his life without loving it- not from inclination or fear,
but from duty- then his maxim has a moral worth." :-)
Immanuel Kant, 1724-1804
Fundamental Principles of the Metaphysic of Morals
> - violin)? It officially comes out tomorrow and boy oh boy am I excited
> about it...
I do not have any slightest negative remark towards KW (or BP) drumming. I just think that the drummers i mentioned, IMHO, add something special. They are inside of music, i would say (well i hope it can mean something;-).
But maybe it is a queastion of knowing musician's style, knowing the way he sees music. When we listen to a musician we do know, we can't dig all that he does, generally. I do not know much KW's playing. But the cd you write about seems interesting. Any possibilty of buing it online from an european store?
> I'm not sure if you were expecting to hear Joey play with this group, but
> as I understand it, Ben is the only drummer in this band (he also subs for
> Joey in DD's sextet).
DD told me after the warsaw show that on the cd from which those tunes are taken there's JB on drums. As i understand, it's out with BP, so maybe i misunderstood him.
>I saw the quartet at the Texaco Jazzfest last month
> - absolutely killing. I honestly thought DD was maybe the weakest link
> in this band (I don't say this to speak poorly of Dave, but to emphasize
> how top-notch everyone else was). Ben was swinging so hard I thought he
> was going to fracture my skull, James Genus was holding everything
> together with great bass playing and his big mega-fat tone, and Chris
> Potter was soloing off in the stratosphere somewhere. Dave played great
> as well, though he seemed kind of looped or something...as he and the band
> made their way to the stage through the audience, he sat down in a chair
> next to me (I was in the front row) and said to no one in particular
> "Yay! The band's here!" Maybe the pressure's getting to him...
The show DD gave in warsaw was also quite incredible, but i had an impression that they were a little bit tired - this was the last show of the european tour. James Genus was incredible. He's a monster :-)
