ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/zorn-list/archive/zorn-list.9806

Internet Message Format | 1998-06-30 | 567KB

From: leon lee <[e-mail]>
Subject: fishing with john
Date: 01 Jun 1998 00:32:40 -0700 (PDT)

i just saw a preview for a movie called: Fishing With John.  looks like a
documentary (somewhat) of john lurie fishing with tom waits, having a
grand ole time.  it's suppose to be an exclusive on the independent film
tv network (?).  any takers?  what's this about?  they play snipets of
lurie's music and shows him stuffing a fish down his pants (for fun).
what's going on?  anyone seen it?  i want to see it but i don't have
access to cable.


leon



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From: [e-mail] (Chris Genzel)
Subject: Re: Ambient Laswell
Date: 01 Jun 1998 13:57:37 +0200


>> Divination's _Distill_ is also much more austere than the earlier
>> Divination records.

 Agreed. Thomas Koner's "Zone" is frightening, and the other pieces are also
 very dark.

> I'll second the Laswell/Harris album, also.  I guess "dark ambience" is
> probably a good way to describe it. 2 very deep, dark, rumbling pieces.

 Yes, "Somnific Flux" is a monster. These pieces have the size of planets
 (not as big planets as Tangerine Dream's Zeit, but still big enough). It's
 eerie.
 Don't forget one of my favorite Bill Laswell CDs, "Silent Recoil - Dub System
 One". It contains two wonderful ambient dub pieces (the second one with quite
 long ambient stretches) and the really haunting ambient "Undercurrent (Endless
 Light In The Nameless Land)".
 The Subsonic 2 disc (Bill Laswell/Nicholas James Bullen: Bass Terror) also
 has long, dark ambient sections. The end of Bill's "Bass Terror Tetragramaton"
 and the beginning of Nik Bullen's "Noctural Crawl" are especially frightening.
 And one piece which always gives me the creeps is Terre Thaemlitz's "Soul
 Killer" remix on the Seven Souls CD. Ooooh, scary.

 Kind regards,
 - Chris.

 ---------------------------------------------
 *    Chris Genzel --- [e-mail]    *
 * Homepage & Herbie Hancock discography at: *
 *    http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil/   *
 ---------------------------------------------


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From: [e-mail] (Chris Genzel)
Subject: Re:  Music appreciation & anti-intellectualism
Date: 01 Jun 1998 13:57:36 +0200


 Hi Joseph,

> It might be worth looking at what else is happening in the music that
> creates a setting for the noise and chaos, either as an accepting bed
> for it or as a contrast to it.

 You're right, there's more to music than just noise and chaos. I was just
 selecting this as an example; there are thousands of attributes I could choose,
 and most of time it would end in "I like this one, but not that one, and I
 can't really say why."

> For example, I like the noise and chaos of the ending of King Crimson's
> "21st Century Schizoid Man" partially because it grows out of an
> extremely orderly song and jump cuts into the simply slow tonality of
> the mellotron  flutes (I think) of "I Talk to the Wind". I don't know
> that I'd want to listen to an entire album of it. It's rather like
> textures and seasonings in food: the context and presentation are
> essential. I like some spicy food, but wouldn't chow down on a plate
> of raw chili peppers.

 That's an interesting point. I often think to myself, "I love this section,
 but I don't think I could stand an entire album like this". That's always
 the case when listening to ballads: one, maybe two ballads on an album are
 wonderful, but I don't like an album to be overloaded with them. I go crazy
 about the last track on the Transmutation disc, "After Shock (Chaos Never
 Died)", because it's so weird, but an entire album of this would be clearly
 too much.

> I've been scratching my head on this trying to figure out why Zorn's
> "Duras" works for me while Anthony Coleman's "The Abysmal Richness of
> the Infinite Proximity of the Same" doesn't. To describe them verbally,
> they seem very similar, yet I find the impact different. I'm wondering
> if I listen to things in the Radical Jewish Culture series differently,
> and with different expectations, than I do to stuff in the Composers
> series, and whether I would have the opposite reactions if the
> packaging were swapped...

 Another interesting point: how do expectations alter our reactions to music?
 I don't like Julian Priester's new "Hints on Lights & Shadow" because I don't
 really want Julian to play avantgarde pieces like this; if this CD was by
 somebody else I might say "wow, this is really weird stuff".

 Kind regards,
 - Chris.

 ---------------------------------------------
 *    Chris Genzel --- [e-mail]    *
 * Homepage & Herbie Hancock discography at: *
 *    http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil/   *
 ---------------------------------------------


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From: Friedrich Feger <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Music appreciation & anti-intellectualism
Date: 01 Jun 1998 15:43:28 +0200

Chris Genzel says:
> [...] And I do not like Kenny G because he isn't
> noisy and chaotic at all. You see, the amount seems to be no criterium.

It's a different thing to LISTEN TO or APPRECIATE music without analyzing
it (I'm not talking about intellectual activity, see below) or to deny that
there actually ARE reasons for you to like or dislike the music in question
that you could communicate to us. I doubt that you exhaustively presented
your reasons of liking or disliking the artists/recordings you mentioned,
taking into account all the attributes + their amounts, the contexts, and
expectations... That is not to claim that one can order dozens of different
pieces in a transitive and perfectly judged way! So, maybe, we're about
d'accord.

Chris Genzel says:
>Right, there is no intellect necessary to appreciate music. A dumb person
can
>like music as well, and even retarded people can appreciate music.
>But I wouldn't say that analysis is an "added bonus". Well, sometimes it is.
>But sometimes, again, it can be the other way round. Some things have more
>power when you just let them engulf you instead of analyzing the components.

Okay, to recognize a melody as a melody, any kind of structure, you have to
use some intellectual capacities, but anyway... doesn't mean to literally
analyze it --- Isn't it more that you suspect the intellectual activity to
be likely to disturb the emotional side of reception?

And here it is:
>Asking "why?" creates a sort of distance between you and the
>object of your appreciation, and more often than not I want to get
>as close to it as possible.

To me, this is not necessarily the case. The intellect seems to have a
tendency to supress the "ecstatic unification" with the music, to
neutralize emotion, but I think this is an artificial opposition, at least
one you can overcome. There is a way to listen to music synthesizing the
emotional and the intellectual channel. You don't make a formal analysis or
something like that, cause that's not the way to find things you like, at
least in many cases. But you RECOGNIZE the subtle scratch in the singer's
relaxed but present voice, the laid back but pressing flow of the drums,
the dark pumping bass sound, the harmonic tension, and the necessary logic
of it all together. You recognize the relation to the context and your
expectations, your associations. You recognize all that, and you feel it
the same time, and the combination is the source of appreciaton. This is my
theory of how it all works :-)

Fritz.

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From: Jan-Wen Lu <[e-mail]>
Subject: New Boredoms Album
Date: 01 Jun 1998 21:49:28 +0800

Can anyone provide me the information about the new Boredoms album
"Super Are"
and their "Super Go" single? I've heard both of them have special
editions. What's the
difference?


Also, Yamataka Eye has some collaboration works(one CD, one K7) with
Musica
Transonic on Asahito Nanjo's La Musica Records. Anyone know where to
find them?
Thanks!!



Jan-Wen Lu


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From: David Keffer <[e-mail]>
Subject: intellectualism
Date: 01 Jun 1998 10:42:18 -0400


>"Dominique Leone" <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>Anyone caught in an argument about the intellectualism of music acts as
>a proponent, no?

No.  There is a distinction between the destination of the argument and
the vehicle that moves the argument.



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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Strings
Date: 01 Jun 1998 16:19:20 -0300

Hi Zornheads!
Though no one in the list seems to know Akua Dixon, any clue where to
look information on her?
On the other hand I'm particularly amazed with strings combos, specially
with the Masada String Trio (Bar Kokhba and Circle Maker, Kronos,
Balanescu among my goodies), so my question is:
What other strings combos can you recommend me (not necessarily in the
Jewish vein and if possible titles and labels)?
You can email me privately if you think it's not related to Zorn.

Thanks in advance.

-Hugo, from Argentina

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From: Brent Burton <[e-mail]>
Subject: sunny murray
Date: 01 Jun 1998 15:22:40 -0400 (EDT)

does anyone know of any sunny murray recordings more recent than the
audible hiss duo with charles gayle?  you can email me privately if you want.

b



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From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Strings
Date: 01 Jun 1998 12:37:40 -0700


On Mon, 1 Jun 98 16:19:20 -0300  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> Hi Zornheads!
> Though no one in the list seems to know Akua Dixon, any clue where to
> look information on her?
> On the other hand I'm particularly amazed with strings combos, specially
> with the Masada String Trio (Bar Kokhba and Circle Maker, Kronos,
> Balanescu among my goodies), so my question is:
> What other strings combos can you recommend me (not necessarily in the
> Jewish vein and if possible titles and labels)?
> You can email me privately if you think it's not related to Zorn.

For some really twisted string quartet music, you should try some of Elliott
Sharp's records. To choose a new one, XENOCODEX is a great one. I am specially
found of the first composition (X-Topia) where he was able to transfer his
electronic manipulations to a live context.

    Patrice.

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From: "m. rizzi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Paris
Date: 01 Jun 1998 13:07:01 -0700 (PDT)


I'll be in Paris for the next two weeks (leaving in 3 days),
are there any zorn related shows happening? What about
recommendations for music shopping?

mike rizzi

--
[e-mail] -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com
                   "Another nerd with a soulpatch"
-------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 -------

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From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Paris
Date: 01 Jun 1998 13:19:32 -0700


On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:07:01 -0700 (PDT)  "m. rizzi" wrote:
>
>
> I'll be in Paris for the next two weeks (leaving in 3 days),
> are there any zorn related shows happening? What about
> recommendations for music shopping?

Paris is currently one of the most depressing town for live music of the kind
we talk on this list. To my knowledge, there is practically only one club playing
"our" music: Les Instants Chavires (in Montreuil).

    Patrice.

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From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Strings
Date: 01 Jun 1998 16:05:55 -0400

Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> On Mon, 1 Jun 98 16:19:20 -0300  [e-mail] wrote:
> >
> > Hi Zornheads!
> > Though no one in the list seems to know Akua Dixon, any clue where to
> > look information on her?
> > On the other hand I'm particularly amazed with strings combos, specially
> > with the Masada String Trio (Bar Kokhba and Circle Maker, Kronos,
> > Balanescu among my goodies), so my question is:
> > What other strings combos can you recommend me (not necessarily in the
> > Jewish vein and if possible titles and labels)?
> > You can email me privately if you think it's not related to Zorn.

You'd probably really enjoy Arcado String Trio. I believe all their
discs were on JMT (so now out of print) except for one on live disc on
Avant. The group originally consisted of Mark Feldman, Hank Roberts and
Mark Dresser but the Avant disc has Ernst Reijseger instead of Roberts
and the new lineup apparently has Eyvind Kang replacing Feldman. 'Behind
The Myth' was my favorite but it's out-of-print now. If you see any
copies around, pick 'em up!

Check out Gorecki's string quartets on Nonesuch. They are very unlike
anything else I've heard from Gorecki (of which I'm only moderately fond
of) and they TOTALLY kick ass. Played by the Kronos Quartet.

                -Tom Pratt

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From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Strings
Date: 01 Jun 1998 14:54:43 -0700 (PDT)

On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 [e-mail] wrote:

> Though no one in the list seems to know Akua Dixon, any clue where to
> look information on her?

a quick Alta Vista search
brought up more than a few websites.
the two which looked interesting
were:

http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages/ndca/Akua.htm

http://www.clarityconnect.com/webpages/ndca/cc_inkfall.html

both are somehow linked to
a site called Cello City and
the NDCA.

hasta.

Yes.  Beautiful, wonderful nature.  Hear it sing to us: *snap*  Yes.  natURE.


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From: [e-mail] (Al T)
Subject: re: Music appreciation & anti-intellectualism
Date: 02 Jun 1998 04:33:49 GMT

I think there are two topics being worked at cross purposes here:

1. whether the intellect is critical/useful/helpful to appreciate music.

2. whether it is worth subjecting ones musical appreciation to an intellectual
analysis.

Case 2 would not necessarily happen while listening to music or as a part of
listening to music. It would more likely be a reflective analysis on what sort
of creatures we are that find the sort of pleasure and meaning that we do in
music. Or what sort of creature am I that I respond in such-and-such a manner to
this or that sort of music.

The intellect is useful to me in case 1 above very rarely. Otoh, I try to make
case 2 type questions an important part of whatever I do. I'd argue that they're
important or, at the very least, a critical part of my own particular approach
to the overall enjoyment of life.

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From: "J.T. de Boer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: John Wall
Date: 02 Jun 1998 16:39:14 +0200

Hi all,

I recently bought a CD by John Wall. His music consists only of
samples and I'm quite impressed by the result. Can anyone give me
more info about him? The title of the album is 'Afterstill'.

Thanks,

Jeroen de Boer

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From: "J.T. de Boer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Zorn-article
Date: 02 Jun 1998 16:44:38 +0200

Hi Zornies,

the may-juni issue of "Neue Zeitschrift f=FCr Musik" (a German magazine
for contemporary music) is totally dedicated to klezmer. There is an
article about Zorn and Radical New Jewish Culture in it. Another
article that might interest you is about a.o. Hasidic New Wave. You
must be able to read German though...


Jeroen de Boer

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From: [e-mail] (Simon Hopkins)
Subject: John Wall
Date: 02 Jun 1998 17:14:33 +0000

There's stuff of interest re Wall on state51's ---+motion website:

http://www.tate51.co.uk/motion

Lots else of interest to this list. In point of admission: I've written a
lot of it myself.

Cheers

Simon Hopkins

simon hopkins

a    216 kensington park road  london  w11 1nr
t/f  00 44 (0)171 727 9329
c    00 44 (0)973 654 276
e    [e-mail]  or [e-mail]

worldwide representation for:

paul schⁿtze (7░, phantom city)
kevin martin & justin broadrick (techno animal, ice, the sidewinder)
jon hassell
the sons of silence
arashi vs red king
magus designs
nikky twyman on-line editing and proofreading

sh is an associate member of the state51 conspiracy

check out the ---+ motion website:
http://www.state51.co.uk/motion/



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From: [e-mail] (Caleb Deupree)
Subject: cassiber/ground zero
Date: 02 Jun 1998 12:49:19 -0400

This new gem arrived in my mailbox last week, and I've finally had a
chance to listen to it all the way through.  Please bear in mind that
these are first impressions.  Patrice has already published the track
listing on this list, so I won't repeat that information.

Cassiber is a semi-improvising trio with Christoph Anders, Chris
Cutler, and Heiner Goebbels, joined for this 1992 concert by Shinoda
Masami on alto.  The recording is pretty good, crowd noise kept to a
minimum (a plus for me), and Masami's sax is a good addition on the
few numbers where he joins the rest of the band.  They play mostly
from Face We All Know, but some songs from their earlier releases.
For those who are unfamiliar with Cassiber, Anders recites various
texts, in English and German, with accompaniment by the others.  There
are instrumental interludes, but most of it has vocals.  I'm not an
especially big fan of this genre, but I've been listening to Cassiber
since their first albums, and find their music to be very enjoyable.
The music can be melodic, noisy, ominous and peaceful in turns, and
there are significant differences between these live recordings and
the studio versions which they've performed in the past.

The second disk is music from the first disk, 're-mixed by
Ground-Zero.'  One of the reasons I like GZ so much is their capacity
to surprise, and this disk was.  The first track is a 20-minute
version of Across the Sky which sounded to me more like Oval's Diskont
94, or perhaps some primitive Finnish techno.  There's a gentle
melodic loop which runs almost all the way through this piece, with a
couple of surprises along the way, but overall very peaceful.  Nothing
like what I expected!  But I ended up shaking my head, wondering what
Otomo would come up with next.  Well, next was much more in the
musique concrete line, then a d'n'b piece (!) with beats by Masuko
Tatsuki, and more musique concrete.  The final track starts in much
the same vein, but suddenly kicks in with work that would not be out
of place on the standards album, which is also the only track that
features anything like the band lineups which have graced recent GZ
releases.  Cassiber references are present on this disk, but not
overwhelmingly so.

Personally, I'm very pleased with the album, but I've always liked
Cassiber and found the GZ surprise to be delightful.  However, anyone
looking for a significant amount of music like previous GZ albums
should revise their expectations.

---
Caleb T. Deupree
;; Opinions...  funny thing about opinions, they can change.

Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers.
(Pablo Picasso)


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From: "Jason J. Tar" <[e-mail]>
Subject: John Wall.
Date: 02 Jun 1998 13:36:09 -0400

>Date: Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:39:14 +0200
>From: "J.T. de Boer" <[e-mail]>
>Subject: John Wall
>
>Hi all,
>
>I recently bought a CD by John Wall. His music consists only of
>samples and I'm quite impressed by the result. Can anyone give me
>more info about him? The title of the album is 'Afterstill'.

There are three albums out by him:
_Fear of Gravity_ From 1993, his first work and you can kinda tell.
_Alterstill_, from 1995 which you have.
_Fractuur_ from 1997.  Same exquisite packaging, sound sources still
include Zorn (as well as a host of others, this time including live
musicians also).  A quieter, much more refined sound.  Very excellent.
I haven't found much information about any work beyond these three
releases, but they are most excellent.  I'd highly recommend finding
_Fractuur_ if you like _Alterstill_.  _FoG_ is supposedly hard to find, but
Manifold Records in the US recently recieved about a hundred copies or so
from the label and may still have a few for sale.  (www.manifoldrecords.com)

Jason J. Tar

---
Peace Hugs and Unity,
Jason J. Tar
        Vampire Rodent Productions
    http://pilot.msu.edu/user/tarjason/VRodents.htm
Featuring: Vampire Rodents, Ether Bunny, and Dilate.

-



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From: Bob Kowalski <[e-mail]>
Subject: john is fishing
Date: 02 Jun 1998 14:46:37 -0500

Leon (and interested parties...) -

John Lurie taped at least 4 or 5 episodes of an aborted Japanese TV
show (series called "Fishing w/ John") a while back.  His guests were T
Waits, Matt Dillon, Jim Jarmusch, Willem Dafoe & Dennis Hopper (those are
one I know about.)  I was fortunate enough to catch the episodes with
Waits and Dafoe (both hilarious) at the Harvard Film Archive last year,
where Mr Lurie himself was present for the screening.  I hope the whole
lot is eventually released on tape, as I also don't have (want) cable.

On related note, supposedly www.stangeandbeautiful.com is new J Lurie
web site were one potentially can find out about soundtrack to above as
well as the latest Lounge Lizards disc... So far its still under construction.

;^ )

Bob

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From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: New Boredoms Album
Date: 02 Jun 1998 12:03:59 -0700 (PDT)

On Mon, 1 Jun 1998, Jan-Wen Lu wrote:

> Can anyone provide me the information about the new Boredoms album
> "Super Are"
> and their "Super Go" single? I've heard both of them have special
> editions. What's the
> difference?

i don't have these (yet), but as
far as i know the single is definately
out now and maybe the album has
been just released.

> Also, Yamataka Eye has some collaboration works(one CD, one K7) with
> Musica
> Transonic on Asahito Nanjo's La Musica Records. Anyone know where to
> find them?

from what i know, there is a
Musica Transonic & Eye cassette
which Nanjo released, but no CD.
there has been talk of releasing
the cassette as a CD, but nothing
definite yet. as for locating a
copy of this, it may prove difficult.
Nanjo doesn't answer mail very
well or fill orders. but you can
always try!

hasta.

Yes.  Beautiful, wonderful nature.  Hear it sing to us: *snap*  Yes.  natURE.


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From: "Olivier Nguyen Van Tan" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Paris
Date: 02 Jun 1998 21:07:36 +0100

Yes and Noooooo !

There is one major club playing our music : les Instants Chavires in
Montreuil... there are some other places but just a few, it is true.
BUT : the live music is GREAT in Paris.

Just a few names for May :
The Ex, Marc Ducret, Tim Berne, Phil Minton, Roger Turner, Ferdinand
Richard, Otomo Yoshihide, Benoit Delbecq, Steve Arguelles....
So, I think you can't say that "Paris is currently one of the most
depressing town for live music ".

Some young musicians even told me that it is more appealing to play in Pa=
ris
because no one has locked the scene, yet. I mean everything is possible,
right now in Paris... a kind of artistic freedom with no "big names" for
reference. A bit like New York in the 80=B0s with Zorn, no ?

BUT (re-BUT in fact) : June and July will be the months of the World Cup =
of
Soccer (what a shame !) and no major musical event will be planned... For
example, les Instants Chavires will close the 5th of June (official date =
but
some more gigs after with a special mention to the Label Rectangle Night
with Noel Aktchote and many more on the 25th).

Forget about soccer (football for European) : it sucks... but live music =
in
Paris don't !
;))


Olivier, fennec parmi les Fennecs

Le Site du Fennec pour les musiques creatives
http://www.fennec.digiweb.fr




-----Message d'origine-----
>From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: Paris
>
>On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:07:01 -0700 (PDT)  "m. rizzi" wrote:
>>
>> I'll be in Paris for the next two weeks (leaving in 3 days),
>> are there any zorn related shows happening? What about
>> recommendations for music shopping?
>
>Paris is currently one of the most depressing town for live music of the
kind
>we talk on this list. To my knowledge, there is practically only one clu=
b
playing
>"our" music: Les Instants Chavires (in Montreuil).
>
> Patrice.



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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Laswell
Date: 02 Jun 1998 20:44:44 UT

Is there any news on the domestic release of the Miles Davis project,
Panthalassa?

Also, is there any more news on the Bob Marley dub project?

Anyone?

PeterR


now playing: Crib - She Is Church

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From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Laswell
Date: 02 Jun 1998 14:57:27 -0500 (CDT)

On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 [e-mail] wrote:

> Is there any news on the domestic release of the Miles Davis project,
> Panthalassa?

It came out several weeks ago. I'm listening to it now -- it's quite
wonderful, although the differences from the Macero mixes are subtler (and
more effective) than I'd imagined they would be.

- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|


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From: [e-mail] (Caleb Deupree)
Subject: Re: Laswell
Date: 02 Jun 1998 15:59:57 -0400

>>>>> "peter" == peter risser <[e-mail]> writes:

    peter> Is there any news on the domestic release of the Miles
    peter> Davis project, Panthalassa?

Picked it up on sale at the local borders a couple of weekends ago.

    peter> Also, is there any more news on the Bob Marley dub project?

You mean Laswell's ambient remixes?  They've been out even longer,
since sometime when it was cold.

---
Caleb T. Deupree
;; Opinions...  funny thing about opinions, they can change.

Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers.
(Pablo Picasso)


-



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From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Laswell
Date: 02 Jun 1998 13:30:57 -0700

At 08:44 PM 6/2/98 UT, [e-mail] wrote:
>Is there any news on the domestic release of the Miles Davis project,
>Panthalassa?

It's out, as other people have mentioned.

>
>Also, is there any more news on the Bob Marley dub project?

It's out and selling quite well, so it should be easy to find.



Jeff Spirer
B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/
Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html
Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/

-



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From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Paris
Date: 02 Jun 1998 14:21:41 -0700


On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 21:07:36 +0100  "Olivier Nguyen Van Tan" wrote:
>
> Yes and Noooooo !
>
> There is one major club playing our music : les Instants Chavires in
> Montreuil... there are some other places but just a few, it is true.
> BUT : the live music is GREAT in Paris.
>
> Just a few names for May :
> The Ex, Marc Ducret, Tim Berne, Phil Minton, Roger Turner, Ferdinand
> Richard, Otomo Yoshihide, Benoit Delbecq, Steve Arguelles....
> So, I think you can't say that "Paris is currently one of the most
> depressing town for live music ".

I said that because everytime I encouter an artist touring in Europe, Paris
shines by its absence on his list. And yes, sometimes somebody really plays
there.

The list of artists that you give is the equivalent of 2-3 weeks at the
Knitting Factory. How is it in Paris? One year...

    Patrice.

> Some young musicians even told me that it is more appealing to play in Paris
> because no one has locked the scene, yet. I mean everything is possible,
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

That's a really cute understatement :-).

I am happy to learn that Paris and Portland (OR) are at the same level:
everything is possible. But I guess that would also apply to every virgin
island :-).

    Patrice.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Olivier Nguyen Van Tan" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Paris
Date: 02 Jun 1998 23:59:15 +0100

-----Message d'origine-----
De : Patrice L. Roussel <[e-mail]>
>
>The list of artists that you give is the equivalent of 2-3 weeks at the
>Knitting Factory. How is it in Paris? One year...
>


The ONLY month of MAY at "Les Instants Chavires" (4 to 26th to be more exact
!)...
(so, 22 days...more or less 3 weeks)


Olivier



nb : and you know there are a lot of bank Holydays in May in France...


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Olivier Nguyen Van Tan" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Paris
Date: 03 Jun 1998 00:23:25 +0100

Patrice,

Ok, what I would like to mean is that the Paris scene is more opened to
young and fresh artists....

If the dowtown scene is so developped right now in the Big Apple, it is
because some years ago, artists had the opportunities to play in clubs...
such as the Knitting Factory... Remember Naked City...

Right now, this place is a "locked place" because it is a "must-to-go" sc=
ene
in order to be recognised. I think that in New York, big names such as Zo=
rn
or Dresser muffle a bit young talents... Look at the Knitting Factory
program : I almost know every one who play this month... No discovery, no
risk.... or just a few with "names".

In short, what I would like to mean is : maybe, Paris is more opened and =
we
can compare it to  the old New York scene of the 80=B0s !


BUT it is true that in France : there are a lot of efforts for "creative
music" (festival, clubs, associations and so on ) but what a pity when yo=
u
have more musicians on stage than in the club...  ;((


Olivier, fennec parmi les Fennecs

Le Site du Fennec pour les musiques creatives
http://www.fennec.digiweb.fr




-----Message d'origine-----
De : Patrice L. Roussel <[e-mail]>
>
>> Some young musicians even told me that it is more appealing to play in
Paris
>> because no one has locked the scene, yet. I mean everything is possibl=
e,
>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
>That's a really cute understatement :-).
>
>I am happy to learn that Paris and Portland (OR) are at the same level:
>everything is possible. But I guess that would also apply to every virgi=
n
>island :-).
>
> Patrice.



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jason Tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: paris 20th c - NYC 21st c
Date: 02 Jun 1998 16:50:05 -0600


>>> Some young musicians even told me that it is more appealing to play in
>Paris
>>> because no one has locked the scene, yet. I mean everything is possible,
>>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>
>>That's a really cute understatement :-).

I wonder if cities go through cyclical stages of high creativity and
oversaturation in a particular medium? From an art standpoint, it seems
like Paris went through an extended art explosion in the beginning of the
19th century, then dying down in the early 20th century.  I wonder if this
could be characterized about nyc and jazz? Sometimes I wonder if nyc is
starting to decline as a haven for artists, musicians, writers, poets,
dancers, etc...



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: paris 20th c - NYC 21st c
Date: 02 Jun 1998 16:13:24 -0700


On Tue, 2 Jun 1998 16:50:05 -0600  Jason Tors wrote:
>
>
> >>> Some young musicians even told me that it is more appealing to play in
> >Paris
> >>> because no one has locked the scene, yet. I mean everything is possible,
> >>    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >>
> >>That's a really cute understatement :-).
>
> I wonder if cities go through cyclical stages of high creativity and
> oversaturation in a particular medium? From an art standpoint, it seems
> like Paris went through an extended art explosion in the beginning of the
> 19th century, then dying down in the early 20th century.  I wonder if this
> could be characterized about nyc and jazz? Sometimes I wonder if nyc is
> starting to decline as a haven for artists, musicians, writers, poets,
> dancers, etc...

I think that we are just lucky when an individual decides, based on passion,
to do something that does not make any sense from a financial point of view:
running a venue/festival dedicated to non-mainstream music.

Thanks to people like Sylvain Donikian for the Dunois in Paris (in the '80s),
Levasseur for the Victoriaville festival, Dorf for the KF, Bachetta for Les
Instants Chavires in Paris, etc.

    Patrice.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: ducret
Date: 02 Jun 1998 19:37:27 -0400

During that thread on Marc Ducret, I never saw mention of the following
disc which I just came upon at the Enja Records website
(http://www.enjarecords.com). It looks pretty damn appealing to me!

Marc Ducret & Bobby Previte: In The Grass (ENJA 9343 2)

It's a duo recording. Just thought I'd let you know...

                -Tom Pratt

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re[2]: Laswell
Date: 03 Jun 1998 00:58:01 UT


    peter> Also, is there any more news on the Bob Marley dub project?

You mean Laswell's ambient remixes?  They've been out even longer,
since sometime when it was cold.

[pnr]
No... well, maybe.  I'm not sure.  I heard somewhere (probably here) that an
album of dub Marley was being done by Laswell and it would be called Devotional
Mix Translation, or something to that effect.  But I haven't heard of anything
like that.  Is it supposed to be ambient remixes?  I don't remember...

PeterR


now playing: a MUZAK version of One Headlight by the Wallflowers.  Sigh.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: ducret
Date: 02 Jun 1998 23:59:37 -0400

Tom Pratt wrote:

> Marc Ducret & Bobby Previte: In The Grass (ENJA 9343 2)
>
> It's a duo recording. Just thought I'd let you know...

It's wunnerful, to boot.  Powerful and creaetive, less abstract than Marc's
two solo albums but less circumspect than his band albums.  Marc on lots of
guitars, Bobby on drums (acoustic, Hywel, though occasionally they trigger
samples) and piano.  But it't not out here in the States till July or
August...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Hugues Roulon" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #381
Date: 03 Jun 1998 14:12:46 +0200



>Date: Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:07:01 -0700 (PDT)
>From: "m. rizzi" <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Paris
>
>I'll be in Paris for the next two weeks (leaving in 3 days),
>are there any zorn related shows happening? What about
>recommendations for music shopping?
>
>mike rizzi
>
>- --
>[e-mail] -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com
>                   "Another nerd with a soulpatch"
>- -------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 -------
>
>- -
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Mon, 01 Jun 1998 13:19:32 -0700
>From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: Paris
>
>On Mon, 1 Jun 1998 13:07:01 -0700 (PDT)  "m. rizzi" wrote:
>>
>>
>> I'll be in Paris for the next two weeks (leaving in 3 days),
>> are there any zorn related shows happening? What about
>> recommendations for music shopping?
>
>Paris is currently one of the most depressing town for live music of the
kind
>we talk on this list. To my knowledge, there is practically only one club
playing
>"our" music: Les Instants Chavires (in Montreuil).
>
> Patrice.
>
>- -


Paris is NOT as depressing as you think. I go to Les Instants Chavires twice
a week. I have sometimes to choose between different gigs at different
places.
There IS live music in Paris and a very interesting emerging scene: Thierry
Madiot, Noel Akchote,
Benoit delbecq, Didier Petit, Marc Ducret, Helene Labarriere, Francois
Corneloup, Sylvain Kassap...
but a was saying Olivier, the problem is that
there are sometimes more people on stage than in the audience.
There is a problem of diffusion of this music. There are only two
interesting record shops in Paris: Wave (rue Keller) and bimbo Tower
(Impasse Josset). These two shops are near Bastille. You can find some
interesting records in the FNAC (our "cultural supermarkets") but they are
very expensive. The major problem is the price of the records and the
dictatorship of official institution and media who do not promote this
music.

Hugues

http://www.fennec.digiweb.fr



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Thomas Queins" <[e-mail]>
Subject: book on music listening
Date: 03 Jun 1998 16:42:45 +0200

Some weeks ago somebody spoke (here) about a book on music listening,
psycology & related subjects. I think I've got to read it but I can't
remenber author/title/ISBN/ecc. If somebody still has the original mail
please send it to my private adress.
[e-mail]

Thanx & ciao

Thomas





-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "m. rizzi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Paris ain't New York (fwd)
Date: 03 Jun 1998 09:53:21 -0700 (PDT)


    This message came from a non-member of the zorn-list
    whose email address is [e-mail]
    I thought it might be of interest.
        - mike rizzi, zorn-list-owner
        p.s.     am I the only one who thinks this Paris
            thread has run its course?

Cc: [e-mail]

>Some young musicians even told me that it is more appealing to play in P
aris
>because no one has locked the scene, yet. I mean everything is possible,
>right now in Paris... a kind of artistic freedom with no "big names" for
>reference. A bit like New York in the 80's with Zorn, no ?

As we say in French, "tu reves", you're dreaming. The scene (I hate "scen
es") isn't that bad, but there's nothing much worth cheering about eith
er. The Instants struggles on a shoestring budget to put on interesting
 music (go see the BIMhuis in Amsterdam if you want to see a really sup
erb well-funded concerthall), all credit to it. Comparisons to 80's New
 York seem to be misplaced for a number of reasons: number of musicians
, style of music, venues to play at, availability of recording possibil
ities etc. I love Paris with a passion (I've been here for ten years),
but things are far from perfect. That said, thank GOD the Knitting Fact
ory didn't open up in Paris..
One last thing: nobody seems to be able to spell his name correctly, but
let me lust correct you all: it's A-K-C-H-O-T-E, OK?

Dan Warburton
Paris New Music Review
www.paristransatlantic.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: "Great Jewish Music"
Date: 03 Jun 1998 18:01:35 -0400 (EDT)

    In the newest The Wire, Gary Lucas says he's just contributed a
track to a Marc Bolan tribute album for Zorn's Great Jewish Music Series.
How expected. What next a tribute to Corky Laing and Leslie West of
Mountain ("Mississippi Queen")?
    If Zorn was really interested in exposing some unknown "Great Jewish
Music" he should do a session honoring the Brooklyn Jewish bebop pioneers of
the late 1940s. Al Cohn (tenor saxophone/composer/arranger) was the best
known, but they included drummer Tiny Kahn, vibist Terry Gibbs, tenor-
saxophonist Frankie Socolow, arranger George Handy, pianist/arranger Ed
Finckel, trombonist/composer Johnny Mandel, trumpeter Jerry Lloyd,
baritone saxophonist Danny Bank, Al Young, Irv Kruger etc. etc. Alternately
(or additionally) Tzadik could reissue Gibbs' "Jewish Melodies In Jazz
Time" and Shelly Manne's "My Son The Jazz Drummer." Now those two are the
real beginnings of the "Jewish Jazz Movement".
    Those interested in more "out" people carrying on this tradition
besides Zorn should check out Ivo Perelman's "En Adair: Traditional Jewish
Songs" On Music And Arts. On it tenor saxophonist Perelman improvises on
seen traditional melodies seconded by "landsmen" "Miriam" Crispell (piano),
"Yehuda" Hemmingway (drums) and "Wolfie" Parker (bass) --funny they don't
look it.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joe Germuska <[e-mail]>
Subject: paris 20th c - NYC 21st c
Date: 03 Jun 1998 17:05:04 -0500

Jason Tors <[e-mail]> wrote:

>Sometimes I wonder if nyc is
>starting to decline as a haven for artists, musicians, writers, poets,
>dancers, etc...

might be something to do the rent.  People who choose such resolutely
unprofitable career paths as creative music need to find the right balance
between affordable living and sufficient audience.

Ah, Chicago :-)

Joe
--
* Joe Germuska    {[e-mail]} |    Learning Technologies Group
<http://www.nwu.edu/people/j-germuska> |      Northwestern University

"One thing I've learned about time...
                              ...It moves very slowly."  --LaMonte Young

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bolan
Date: 03 Jun 1998 20:07:04 EDT

What exactly is this supposed to mean?


    In the newest The Wire, Gary Lucas says he's just contributed a
track to a Marc Bolan tribute album for Zorn's Great Jewish Music Series.
How expected.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "Great Jewish Music"
Date: 03 Jun 1998 21:57:17 -0400 (EDT)



On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Ken Waxman wrote:

>     In the newest The Wire, Gary Lucas says he's just contributed a
> track to a Marc Bolan tribute album for Zorn's Great Jewish Music Series.
> How expected.

Well, I'm fairly surprised, as I had no idea Bolan was Jewish.8^)

Chris Hamilton



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "m. rizzi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: zorn-list administration
Date: 03 Jun 1998 23:12:18 -0700 (PDT)


Once again I am shirking my duties and going on vacation.
So the zorn-list will be running on auto-pilot for the next
two weeks while I cavort on the streets of Paris.

What that means is

    all problems with subscribing/unsubscribing will
    have to wait until June 18th.

    any messages larger than 8K will sit in my mailbox
    waiting for me to forward them.

    any messages sent from a different address than
    the one you subscribed with will sit in my mailbox
    anxiously awaiting my return.

    any messages containing 'special' words like
    "subscribe", "help", etc. will also wait for me.

Of course, there is a *remote chance* that I'll actually
check my email in some Parisian cybercafe...yeah, right.  :)

have fun while I'm gone & play nice,

mike rizzi
zorn-list-owner

[e-mail] -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com
                   "Another nerd with a soulpatch"
-------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 -------




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: BJOERN <[e-mail]>
Subject: book on black music??
Date: 04 Jun 1998 09:37:36 +0200 (MEST)

is there any good book available that focuses on black music ....
i am most interested in RnB/Soul focusing books...

BJOERN


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "J.T. de Boer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: book on music listening
Date: 04 Jun 1998 10:46:45 +0200





Hi,

I think this isn't the book you're refering to, but I think it's very
interesting though. The title is "Musical Meaning and Expression" and
it's written by Stephen Davies. In this book he tries to describe
the meaning of music on a psychological and filosophical basis. I
haven't got the book yet, but I ordered it and it should come in in a
couple of weeks. Davies, who is an Australian art-filosopher, is a
fantastic writer who convinced me earlier this year with the
excellent book "Definitions of Art" in which he gives a very clear
overview of the filosophy of art.

Jeroen de Boer



 Some weeks ago somebody spoke
(here) about a book on music listening, psycology & related subjects.
I think I've got to read it but I can't remenber
author/title/ISBN/ecc. If somebody still has the original mail please
send it to my private adress. [e-mail]

Thanx & ciao

Thomas





-


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Terence Sin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: ECM
Date: 04 Jun 1998 05:16:42 +0500

ECM has declared war on Wire magazine:

http://www.mediapolis.com/ecm-cgi-bin/article?article=19980528.news


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject:       Re: intellectualism, doh!
Date: 04 Jun 1998 10:59:39 GMT0BST

The point of view that: to hear a melody as a melody, is already
an intellectual viewpoint needs to be spelt out ... do you mean "to
pick out the melody, and call it a melody?  or would just humming the
melody do?  what if you got mislead by the harmony (and got it
wrong)?  or, what if the melody was harmonised, so as to, as it were,
offer a choice of what to hum?  (this last afflicts me when I'm
trying to pick it out on an instrument) -

as an aside, can anyone run me down the bridge of Little Rootie
Tootie?  I picked it out on guitar the other night, starting on G#-C-
Eb-F#-F, C#-etc., ...  Don't worry about the "banged" chords, it's
simply some of the runs I can't discern.

Anyway, I'm surprised no-one responded to the Leibniz quote I posted,
as that too seemed to claim that pleasure at music was unconscious
mathematics!  But this view seems more Kantian to me: that to
perceive anything is to categorise it.  This is like philosophers who
- responding to the (already bonkers) claim that the aeroplane in the
sky isn't "given" in perception, but is "judged" on the basis of the
"little black spot" that is "given" - say that even the "little black
spot" must be judged as it has been categorised AS a "little black
spot".  And people wonder why there's been so little progress in 2500
years!!!


Sean

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject:       Re: David S Ware on Sony
Date: 04 Jun 1998 11:09:07 GMT0BST

I know that this topic was thoroughly trawled a while back, but
Branford Marsalis was on UK's Jazz On 3 last Friday, briefly
explaining his signing policy: to sign great musicians who had NEVER
had a record deal.  Jeff Watts was his key example, but his second
was Kenny Kirkland, of whom he qualified the criteria by saying, if i
remember rightly, that Kirkland had "never REALLY had a PROPER record
deal".  He then mentioned Calderazzo, and Ware, who he said was sort
of avant-garde, up-front sax ... well, in any case, he did enthuse
about him, so we might assume that Branford at least has no plans to
drop him yet.  His other comment was that it would be a marketing
ploy to sign a teenager, but that there weren't any good teenage jazz
players - that he (BM) wasn't that good as a teenager, and that Sonny
Rollins WAS, but that Rollins was Rollins (a nice use of what we in
philosophy mistake for tautology) - he might have added that Rollins
was in his sixties now, but didn't!

Anyone recommend any good Ware albums?

Sean Wilkie

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject:       Re: Panthalassa
Date: 04 Jun 1998 11:25:16 GMT0BST

Am I alone in thinking that one of the big boo-boos on Panthalassa,
is the mutilation of the organ part on Rated X?

Also, as no-one has carried forward the (ahem) sterling analysis of
this album, let me continue: Billy Preston is pretty much untouched,
from Miles' point of view.  There's a kind of theme "couplet" of
phrases which Bill uses twice at around 7.40, in place of a climbing
phrase by Miles on the original.  Then this "theme" reappears at
around 8.30 and 9.05, but there was no trumpet at these spots in the
original.  It then cuts the last 4 or 4andahalf minutes off the
original, but there isn't too much trumpet on that section anyway ...
The "theme", by the way, is played by Miles prior to Laswell's
"repeats", and is subsequently used occasionally in fragment on the
original (and is heard on Laswell's mix too ...)

Right, I really do have too much work on, so how about somebody else
doing the last piece, He Loved Him Madly?  Hywel's already pilloried
the ending ...

Sean Wilkie

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject:       moore/ maneri
Date: 04 Jun 1998 12:09:10 GMT0BST

any recommendations of Michael Moore's cd? who plays with him on the
new trio "bering".
has anyone heard the new Mat Maneri "acceptance" on hatology?

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject:       Public Image
Date: 04 Jun 1998 12:32:52 GMT0BST

Bill Laswell mentioned that Tony Williams drummed on the PIL album.
I'd heard that Ginger Baker played on it, and I'm told that Hancock
and Steve Vai did too.  Does anyone know the full personnel list?

Sean Wilkie

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Public Image
Date: 04 Jun 1998 06:47:17 -0700

At 12:32 PM 6/4/98 GMT0BST, DR S WILKIE wrote:
>Bill Laswell mentioned that Tony Williams drummed on the PIL album.
>I'd heard that Ginger Baker played on it, and I'm told that Hancock
>and Steve Vai did too.  Does anyone know the full personnel list?

John Lydon: Voice; Steve Vai: Guitar; Skopelitis: Guitar; Bernie Worrell:
Organ; Bill Laswell: Bass; Tony Williams: Drums; Bernard Fowler:
Voice; Ryuichi Sakamoto: Fairlight CMI; L. Shankar: Violin; Malachi Favors:
Acoustic Bass; Ginger Baker: Drums; Aiyb Dieng: Chatan; Jonas
Hellborg: Bass; Steve Turre: Didjeridu
Jeff Spirer
B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/
Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html
Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "J.T. de Boer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: North Sea Jazz Festival
Date: 04 Jun 1998 16:42:50 +0200

Here are some nice acts from the upcoming NSJ-Festival in Den Haag,
The Netherlands. It's taking place at july 10-12.

MISHA MENGELBERG / YURI HONING DUO
CLUSONE TRIO
MINGUS BIG BAND
LEE KONITZ / CHARLIE HADEN / PAUL BLEY
LOUIS SCLAVIS TRIO     special  guest DAVE   DOUGLAS
GIANLUIGI TROVESI OCTET
PAUL WEILING TRIO   special  guest DAVID TRONZO
RAY ANDERSON'S LAPIS LAZULI BAND
PAINKILLER   feat. BILL LASWELL, JOHN ZORN & MIKE HARRIS
BENNINK / BORSTLAP / GLERUM
PIERRE COURBOIS QUINTET
STEVEN BERNSTEIN'S SEX MOB
HARRIET TUBMAN
feat. Brandon Ross Brandon Ross (guitar), Melvin Gibbs (bass), J.T.
Lewis (drums)
WAYNE HORVITZ & ZONY MASH
JAZZ ON LINE
Live from the Knitting factory and the North Sea Jazz Festival.
Details t.b.a.

Check out their website: http://www.netcetera.nl/northsea/98/


Jeroen de Boer







-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re[2]: intellectualism, doh!
Date: 04 Jun 1998 12:38:13 -0500


Sean Wilkie wrote:

>Anyway, I'm surprised no-one responded to the Leibniz quote I
>posted, as that too seemed to claim that pleasure at music was
>unconscious mathematics!

Well, unless one accepts the "soulist" point of view, which I don't,
doesn't this ultimately follow? At some level far below conscious
perception (but no less real) the pleasure derived from music begins
as a pattern recognition activity, the same as sight, smell, etc.

As an analogy: I'm looking at a photo on my office calendar depicting
a couple of samoyeds frolicking in a field of flowers (hey, someone
gave it to me). While I can happily look at it as "two dogs" I know
that, should I choose to peer closely, it's nothing more than a great
number of colored dots (and, of course, further that those dots are
just molecules, the molecules atoms...). I _can_ view it in its
component parts, though I choose not to and I "enjoy" it on a
meta-level, without, generally, being conscious of its "actuality"
though, on a level below my consciousness, I necessarily perceive
that actuality.

Next: I'm listening to a CD (as it happens, Simon Fisher Turner's
soundtrack to Derek Jarman's 'The Garden'). It would be possible, I
imagine, to transcribe each bit of digital data into, essentially, a
mathematical equation, this one here representing a tiny fraction of
a phoneme of Tilda Swinton's voice. I could even more eccentricly
imagine that one could, with infinite practice and extraordinary
brainpower, learn to read these equations, mentally coalesce them and
appreciate them just as if one had "heard" them! Hofstadter had the
same idea when he had one of his characters remove a vinyl LP from
its sleeve and visually scan it, "reading" the music encoded there
(why not? it's simply information!) and enjoying it just as much as
if the information was entering his ears rather than his eyes.

The point being that the brain has not evolved to be conscious of its
own internal workings. Move your right index finger an inch; now try
to explain how you did it. I've no doubt that musical enjoyment,
along with everything else we perceive, is, at bottom
mechanical/mathematical. Those with mystical notions would dispute
this and, generally, shudder at the thought of a deeper analysis of
art, fearing that we will lose the "mystery". Those of us on the
other side of the Cartesian divide tend not to have any fear of
following the path towards deeper understanding of nature, wherever
it leads. What one finds will likely be far more beautiful and
mysterious than any mystical dogma.

Side point: I don't have a great deal of difficulty imagining some
time in the future the possibility of a neurosurgeon entering my
skull and tweaking a given area of brain, thereby causing my
consciousness to perceive Kenny G's music as heartrendingly
beautiful. How would this affect the objective/subjective taste
arguments?

My two cents.

Brian Olewnick








-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "Great Jewish Music"
Date: 04 Jun 1998 13:49:37 -0400 (EDT)


Yup, real name Marc Feld

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]





On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Christopher Hamilton wrote:

>
>
> On Wed, 3 Jun 1998, Ken Waxman wrote:
>
> >     In the newest The Wire, Gary Lucas says he's just contributed a
> > track to a Marc Bolan tribute album for Zorn's Great Jewish Music Series.
> > How expected.
>
> Well, I'm fairly surprised, as I had no idea Bolan was Jewish.8^)
>
> Chris Hamilton
>
>
>
> -
>
>

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: intellectualism, doh!
Date: 04 Jun 1998 12:56:47 -0500 (CDT)

On Thu, 4 Jun 1998 [e-mail] wrote:

> Those with mystical notions would dispute
> this and, generally, shudder at the thought of a deeper analysis of
> art, fearing that we will lose the "mystery".

You seem to be using "mystical" as a synonym for "newagey". Or something.
Those who follow the more rigorous schools of mystical thought (have you
investigated these before condemning the "mystical") would shudder at the
thought that people think that they are opposed to the analytical.

- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Artur Nowak" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Berlin shows
Date: 04 Jun 1998 20:52:20 +0200

Does anybody knows about interresting shows in Berlin between 11th and
14th of June?
Thanks


______________________________________________________________________
     Artur Nowak ([e-mail]) (spam filter in
use)
     www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/default.htm - Discography of Bill Frisell



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Artur Nowak" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Public Image
Date: 04 Jun 1998 20:52:25 +0200

> John Lydon: Voice; Steve Vai: Guitar; Skopelitis: Guitar;
> Bernie Worrell:
> Organ; Bill Laswell: Bass; Tony Williams: Drums; Bernard Fowler:
> Voice; Ryuichi Sakamoto: Fairlight CMI; L. Shankar: Violin;
> Malachi Favors:
> Acoustic Bass; Ginger Baker: Drums; Aiyb Dieng: Chatan; Jonas
> Hellborg: Bass; Steve Turre: Didjeridu

Is this lineup on the album cover? Or you just know?


______________________________________________________________________
     Artur Nowak ([e-mail]) (spam filter in
use)
     www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/default.htm - Discography of Bill Frisell



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: intellectualism, doh!
Date: 04 Jun 1998 12:56:47 -0500 (CDT)

On Thu, 4 Jun 1998 [e-mail] wrote:

> Those with mystical notions would dispute
> this and, generally, shudder at the thought of a deeper analysis of
> art, fearing that we will lose the "mystery".

You seem to be using "mystical" as a synonym for "newagey". Or something.
Those who follow the more rigorous schools of mystical thought (have you
investigated these before condemning the "mystical") would shudder at the
thought that people think that they are opposed to the analytical.

- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re[4]: intellectualism, doh!
Date: 04 Jun 1998 14:23:51 -0500


     Joseph wrote:

You seem to be using "mystical" as a synonym for "newagey". Or something.
Those who follow the more rigorous schools of mystical thought (have you
investigated these before condemning the "mystical") would shudder at the
thought that people think that they are opposed to the analytical.

     Correct me if I'm wrong, but ultimately one is forced to come down on
     one side or the other: either consciousness is some sort of ineffable
     essence (a "soul") or that it's the result of an underlying series of
     mechanical processes and pattern organizations (Dennett's
     'Consciousness Explained' _begins_, I think, to get at the picture,
     though the title is a stretch). No, I haven't investigated the "more
     rigorous schools of mystical thought"; I take it you're referring to
     the Kabbala and certain forms of Islam and Buddhism. Life is short
     and, being a non-soulist, I don't look forward to an infinite period
     of study after death! While I don't doubt that serious studies do
     occur, I was, in fact, referring to the more popular, newagey if you
     will, attitude of, "Don't examine a work of art too closely, or you'll
     destroy its beauty! Don't try to parse it or to understand why it's
     beautiful! No one can know!" I'm trying to make the case that it's
     not, in theory, impossible to understand; it may be hard, perhaps
     extraordinarily difficult, maybe beyond our ability to directly
     perceive--but it's there, deep down in the gears, in flesh and blood.

     Hypermaterialistically,

     Brian Olewnick




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re[4]: intellectualism, doh!
Date: 04 Jun 1998 15:03:53 -0500 (CDT)

On Thu, 4 Jun 1998 [e-mail] wrote:

>      Correct me if I'm wrong, but ultimately one is forced to come down on
>      one side or the other: either consciousness is some sort of ineffable
>      essence (a "soul") or that it's the result of an underlying series of
>      mechanical processes and pattern organizations (Dennett's
>      'Consciousness Explained' _begins_, I think, to get at the picture,
>      though the title is a stretch). No, I haven't investigated the "more
>      rigorous schools of mystical thought"; I take it you're referring to
>      the Kabbala and certain forms of Islam and Buddhism. Life is short
>      and, being a non-soulist, I don't look forward to an infinite period
>      of study after death!

Who is forcing one to "come down on one side or the other"? When does the
"ultimately" alarm bell ring?  Is there something wrong with admitting
that there are things that we might not yet know, without jumping to
either extreme? As you say, life is short.  Does this make it necessary to
jump to conclusions about that which one has not had the time or chance to
study? If not, a position of honest not-knowing is a valid choice.

> While I don't doubt that serious studies do
>      occur, I was, in fact, referring to the more popular, newagey if you
>      will, attitude of, "Don't examine a work of art too closely, or you'll
>      destroy its beauty! Don't try to parse it or to understand why it's
>      beautiful! No one can know!" I'm trying to make the case that it's
>      not, in theory, impossible to understand; it may be hard, perhaps
>      extraordinarily difficult, maybe beyond our ability to directly
>      perceive--but it's there, deep down in the gears, in flesh and blood.

But using the term "mystical" to refer to warm-fuzzy thinking, and
slamming all mysticism because of it is akin to using the term "jazz" to
refer to Kenny G and thereby dissing Cecil Taylor for bland tonal
melodicism.

Your belief that it's all possible to understand is, in the ansence of
position of faith (this is sounding like "Contact" :-]). Sounds like
you're in a glass house with respect to questioning belief systems.

- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #383
Date: 04 Jun 1998 16:32:41 EDT

In a message dated 6/4/98 3:42:47 PM EDT, owner-zorn-list-
[e-mail] writes:

> as I had no idea Bolan was Jewish.
Marc Feld!

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Public Image
Date: 04 Jun 1998 13:53:47 -0700

At 08:52 PM 6/4/98 +0200, Artur Nowak wrote:
>> John Lydon: Voice; Steve Vai: Guitar; Skopelitis: Guitar;
>> Bernie Worrell:
>> Organ; Bill Laswell: Bass; Tony Williams: Drums; Bernard Fowler:
>> Voice; Ryuichi Sakamoto: Fairlight CMI; L. Shankar: Violin;
>> Malachi Favors:
>> Acoustic Bass; Ginger Baker: Drums; Aiyb Dieng: Chatan; Jonas
>> Hellborg: Bass; Steve Turre: Didjeridu
>
>Is this lineup on the album cover? Or you just know?

There's only one word on the album cover.  I got this from the Japanese CD
and asked Bill if it was correct.


Jeff Spirer
B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/
Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html
Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re[6]: intellectualism, doh!
Date: 04 Jun 1998 16:41:20 -0500




     Joseph wrote:

Who is forcing one to "come down on one side or the other"? When does the
"ultimately" alarm bell ring?  Is there something wrong with admitting
that there are things that we might not yet know, without jumping to
either extreme? As you say, life is short.  Does this make it necessary to
jump to conclusions about that which one has not had the time or chance to
study? If not, a position of honest not-knowing is a valid choice.

     Of course, you're correct in the sense that neither I, nor anyone
     else, absolutely _knows_ the facts on this question (allowing that
     there are facts). But there are plenty of things that I, and you I
     would suspect, dismiss out of hand without perfect knowledge as to
     their falsity. I don't _know_ that Uri Geller didn't bend keys by
     mind-power alone, but I have no aversion to stating that he didn't!
     I don't _know_ that Christ didn't walk on water, but I betcha it
     didn't happen! I don't _know_ that I won't be reincarnated, but I'm
     not taking it into consideration as a serious possibility either. Hey,
     I may be proved wrong; it's happened before. I simply use my noggin to
     the best of its ability to separate wheat from chaff. I think Pascal
     was a coward for hedging his bets. If I'm wrong, well, does Hell have
     Internet access and a good music distributor?

But using the term "mystical" to refer to warm-fuzzy thinking, and
slamming all mysticism because of it is akin to using the term "jazz" to
refer to Kenny G and thereby dissing Cecil Taylor for bland tonal
melodicism.

     Ouch! I don't think this really applies. While most would agree that
     there is, generally speaking, good and bad music, one could argue (and
     you could disagree) that a given system of belief is flawed in its
     premises, therefore essentially false; say, astrology (please, no
     arguments here; if there are vehement supporters of astrology out
     there, substitute Santa Claus).

Your belief that it's all possible to understand is, in the ansence of
position of faith (this is sounding like "Contact" :-]). Sounds like
you're in a glass house with respect to questioning belief systems.

     I really don't think it's faith, though I've had this argument with
     others. It's simply drawing inferences from the best information
     available. As knowledge advances, those inferences may be disproven,
     unlike articles of faith. If the glass isn't strong enough, tossed
     stones are welcome.

     Brian Olewnick






-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dave" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fripp thinks he is a god
Date: 04 Jun 1998 15:57:25 -0700

Noo real Zoen content, but I know a lot of list members like
Fripp. I saw ProjeKct Two (Fripp, Belew, Gunn) and an announcement
was made before the show that there was no smoking, recording devices,
or cameras allowed. During the second set a flash went off.
Everybody left the stage mid-song. An announcement was made
that whoever took the picture had to turn in the film to the
sound man and be escorted out of the venue in order for the show
to resume. About ten minutes later Fripp was back on stage and
unravelled the roll of film and threw it into the aduience. They
picked up right where they left off. Great show music wise, but
Fripp seems like he has a huge ego.


Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fripp thinks he is a god
Date: 04 Jun 1998 16:10:31 -0700


On Thu, 04 Jun 1998 15:57:25 -0700  "Dave" wrote:
>
> Noo real Zoen content, but I know a lot of list members like
> Fripp. I saw ProjeKct Two (Fripp, Belew, Gunn) and an announcement
> was made before the show that there was no smoking, recording devices,
> or cameras allowed. During the second set a flash went off.
> Everybody left the stage mid-song. An announcement was made
> that whoever took the picture had to turn in the film to the
> sound man and be escorted out of the venue in order for the show
> to resume. About ten minutes later Fripp was back on stage and
> unravelled the roll of film and threw it into the aduience. They
> picked up right where they left off. Great show music wise, but
> Fripp seems like he has a huge ego.

That's now that you realize it? I have detecting a serious infatuation with
himself ten years ago (during a show of his guitar band). The urgency of his
music might have decreased with time, but his ego has followed the opposite
track.

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    William York <[e-mail]>
Subject: Downtown
Date: 04 Jun 1998 19:59:01 -0400 (EDT)

I've seen a few things recently that don't quite make sense from my
distant perspective re: the downtown/kf scene.  In Cadence, someone made a
comment about someone else's ignorance of the Knit Fac "meat market".
Also, on the Secret Chiefs etc. site (which I found thru a link from the
newly appeared Zorn site) there was a comment about the lack of good
recordings to come out of the downtown scene, and some comments about the
buy-anything mentality of Zorn fans (this was actually in a portion of the
site that highly praised Angelus Novus).  Could someone explain this
meat-market thing that is supposedly so obvious, and does anyone have any
comments on the recordings issue as well?  I'm having enough trouble
trying to get around to just some of the main ones, having come in a
little late.

Thanks, WY

Also for sale cheap- Fred Lonberg Holm: Personal Scratch (Eighth Day)
                   - FJF- Blow Horn (Okka) which I was just complimenting
but it's a bit abrasive for me in the end.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Craig Rath <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fripp thinks he is a god
Date: 04 Jun 1998 20:57:16 -0500

At 03:57 PM 6/4/98 -0700, you wrote:
>Noo real Zoen content, but I know a lot of list members like
>Fripp. I saw ProjeKct Two (Fripp, Belew, Gunn) and an announcement
>was made before the show that there was no smoking, recording devices,
>or cameras allowed. During the second set a flash went off.
>Everybody left the stage mid-song. An announcement was made
>that whoever took the picture had to turn in the film to the
>sound man and be escorted out of the venue in order for the show
>to resume. About ten minutes later Fripp was back on stage and
>unravelled the roll of film and threw it into the aduience. They
>picked up right where they left off. Great show music wise, but
>Fripp seems like he has a huge ego.
>

How is this any different than what any other musician does to control the
way their music/appearance is put forth?  I seem to remember similar
incidents ocurring with Mr. Zorn recently, especially with regard to the
web casts from the Knitting Factory.  Or the more violent methods used by
some groups, such as physically attacking someone caught in the act.

Fripp has, from the day King Crimson began, been very much concerned with
having the final say about how he and the musicians who play with him are
represented, whether on a recording or in their live performances.  I don't
see that as egotism, more as perfectionism - a big difference.  While I
still don't completely agree with the strictness of anti-recording rules, I
can at least understand the reasons behind them.  I do agree that recording
(in any form - audio or visual) of someone's work and then selling it
without their approval is reprehensible.  But I also think that doing so
for your own use or as a remembrance of something you experienced should be
treated differently.  But you have to remember, at the time that this
incident occurred, Fripp had no idea which of these two outcomes the
perpetrator had in mind, so he came down on the side of caution and
prevention.

As you can tell from my e-mail address I've been a follower of his for
years. I do not always like some of the things he has done and have often
thought he could lighten up a bit, but the thing to remember (especially
noticeable from his liner notes) is that he tries his best to represent the
musician above all other considerations.  I don't consider that egotism,
just the right way to do things.  And if that means coming down on someone
who doesn't obey the rules he sets up ahead of time (notice he warned
everyone first) I say the more power to him.  Especially if prevents
someone from capitalizing on something they had no right to.

Just my take on the matter.



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fripp thinks he is a god
Date: 04 Jun 1998 19:29:22 -0700 (PDT)


speaking of Fripp... sort of.

that nifty clear jewel case
for my copy of King Crimson's
"The Nightwatch" (phenominal live
recording, despite Fripp's
disparaging remarks in the liner
notes btw) is broken and i am crushed.
it's one of those "slimline"
double-cd jewel cases. i haven't
been able to find a record shop
in the area (San Francisco) who
sells empty cases like this. any
reccommendations for a mailorder
outfit that does? left and right-hinged
cases are desired.

thanks!

hasta.

Yes.  Beautiful, wonderful nature.  Hear it sing to us: *snap*  Yes.  natURE.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: a rancid amoeba <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fripp thinks he is a god
Date: 04 Jun 1998 19:35:40 -0700 (PDT)

> Fripp has, from the day King Crimson began, been very much concerned with
> having the final say about how he and the musicians who play with him are
> represented, whether on a recording or in their live performances.  I don't
> see that as egotism, more as perfectionism - a big difference.  While I
> still don't completely agree with the strictness of anti-recording rules, I
> can at least understand the reasons behind them.  I do agree that recording
> (in any form - audio or visual) of someone's work and then selling it
> without their approval is reprehensible.

I'll make a blanket statement that artists that are preoccupied
with attendees taping the show or taking their picture based on
the argument that the attendee is going to make money from it
are coming heavily from the side of egotism, not perfectionism
or even fairness.

This isn't to say that I feel that it is right to make bootlegs
and sell them. The reality is, though, that those live bootlegs
help the artist far more than they hurt them.


chanel

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
http://www.arancidamoeba.com/                          [e-mail]
              r e c o r d  l a b e l s  o n  t h e  w e b
                 future home of a rancid amoeba records


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fripp thinks he is a god
Date: 04 Jun 1998 20:18:20 -0700

At 07:35 PM 6/4/98 -0700, a rancid amoeba wrote:

>I'll make a blanket statement that artists that are preoccupied
>with attendees taping the show or taking their picture based on
>the argument that the attendee is going to make money from it
>are coming heavily from the side of egotism, not perfectionism
>or even fairness.

Let me say as someone who has been paid by artists to photograph them in
concert (and published in Drum and Modern Drummer magazine) that this is
completely within the artist's rights and may reflect any number of
concerns, *not* egotism, including a feeling of intrusion, problems with
flash going off during a performance disturbing musicians, contracts with
professional photographers, club requirements (musicians often get blamed
for having a crowd that fucks with the rules), etc.

If the rules say "No Photography," then people who want to take pictures
should go see something else.  If someone unauthorized takes pictures, I
think it is fine for the artist to take the person's camera, take out the
film and destroy it.  Anyone who wants to fuck around with what the artist
wants in a performance should expect to get fucked with in return.

Let me give people here some idea of how completely fucked up this can be.
Clubs almost always forbid flash, even if they allow photography.  When I
have permission to use flash, I usually set slave flashes up near the
stage.  These trigger from any flash, and when people in the audience use
flash my slaves go off.  This is a) annoying to the musicians, since I
usually clear when I can use them (like not when the lights are out), and
b) it runs their power down and I can't get them to fire when I need them.
So some punk-ass idiot decides for his own good to fuck up the artist's
ability to get decent photographs of the concert.

Fripp was perfectly within his rights and, like I said before, someone that
doesn't like the rules should go listen to someone else.



Jeff Spirer
B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/
Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html
Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fripp thinks he is a god
Date: 04 Jun 1998 23:34:36 EDT

In a message dated 98-06-04 19:00:47 EDT, you write:

<< Noo real Zoen content, but I know a lot of list members like
 Fripp. I saw ProjeKct Two (Fripp, Belew, Gunn) and an announcement
 was made before the show that there was no smoking, recording devices,
 or cameras allowed. >>

Dave, was this the Cleveland show on Tuesday? I considered going, but after
hearing the Projekt 2 CD, I couldn't think of anything that left me
more....unimpressed and opinionless. It did absolutely nothing at all for me.

Dale.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: David S Ware on Sony
Date: 04 Jun 1998 23:58:21 -0400

DR S WILKIE wrote:

> Anyone recommend any good Ware albums?

My favorites are "Flight of i" with Marc Edwards on drums, either "Dao"
or "Cryptology" with Whit Dickey, and "Wisdom of Uncertainty" and
"Godspelized" with the fabulous Susie Ibarra.  Shipp and Parker are
common to all of them.  I hear great things about "Third Ear Recitation,
but haven't heard it."  I won't say anything about the upcoming Columbia
record since puching that is part of my day job.  Actually, I will say
just this... it was recorded *before* Ware was signed to Columbia, so you
needn't fear he was forced to compromise in any way.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Recent George Clinton live shows
Date: 05 Jun 1998 00:11:24 -0400

I've used the excuse of the nice P-Funk primer in the June issue of The
Wire to shore up my woefully inadequate collection with four of their
classic albums ("Maggot Brain," "Mothership Connection," "Funkentelechy
vs. the Placebo Syndrome" and "One Nation Under a Groove").  Fine stuff
indeed... little did I know how profoundly they'd influenced my beloved
Prince/TAFKAP/The Artist, for just one example.

I see P-Funk's playing at the Texaco Festival on Sunday night.
Recommendations from those who've seen them lately?  Does the current
live show still "cut it?"  And which of the important older all-stars
are still on board?

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fripp thinks he is a god
Date: 05 Jun 1998 00:25:41 -0400

Jeff Spirer wrote:

> Let me say as someone who has been paid by artists to photograph them in
> concert (and published in Drum and Modern Drummer magazine) that this is
> completely within the artist's rights and may reflect any number of
> concerns, *not* egotism, including a feeling of intrusion, problems with
> flash going off during a performance disturbing musicians, contracts with
> professional photographers, club requirements (musicians often get blamed
> for having a crowd that fucks with the rules), etc.

Another definite problem with unexpected flashes: A performer who moves
around on stage a lot (granted, that probably doesn't include Fripp :-])
can be momentarily blinded and/or disoriented by the flash. If the
performer is near the lip of the stage and can't see how far away it
is, this could lead to serious injury.
--
---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Recent George Clinton live shows
Date: 04 Jun 1998 21:30:03 -0700

At 12:11 AM 6/5/98 -0400, Steve Smith wrote:

>I see P-Funk's playing at the Texaco Festival on Sunday night.
>Recommendations from those who've seen them lately?  Does the current
>live show still "cut it?"  And which of the important older all-stars
>are still on board?

You will never see Bernie on stage with Clinton.  And listening to a lot of
those classics, you can hear how influential Bernie was to the sound.


Jeff Spirer
B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/
Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html
Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  Recent George Clinton live shows
Date: 05 Jun 1998 01:21:25 EDT


In a message dated 6/5/98 12:26:48 AM, [e-mail] wrote:

<<I've used the excuse of the nice P-Funk primer in the June issue of The
Wire to shore up my woefully inadequate collection with four of their
classic albums ("Maggot Brain," "Mothership Connection," "Funkentelechy
vs. the Placebo Syndrome" and "One Nation Under a Groove").  Fine stuff
indeed... little did I know how profoundly they'd influenced my beloved
Prince/TAFKAP/The Artist, for just one example.

I see P-Funk's playing at the Texaco Festival on Sunday night.
Recommendations from those who've seen them lately?  Does the current
live show still "cut it?"  And which of the important older all-stars
are still on board?

Steve Smith
[e-mail]>>

Well, I haven't seen them live for 7 or 8 years now, so I can't really answer
your set of questions very well, except to say that Eddie Hazel (deceased) and
Bernie Worrell and Bootsy Collins don't play with P-Funk anymore. On the other
hand, Michael Hampton still does sometimes, depending on the show, and Maggot
Brain live is a killer. One of the best concerts I've ever seen was The P-Funk
All-Stars in 1990 or so playing Club Bene in Sayreville, NJ. They played for
four hours straight, never letting up the funk.

The real reason I'm posting, though, is to mention a few essential records not
among the four you picked up. While Maggot Brain and One Nation Under A Groove
are superessential, the other two I've always considered to be a notch below
their classic material. Other records I do consider essential are Funkadelic,
Standing On The Verge Of Getting It On, Cosmic Slop, First Thangs, and Up For
The Down Stroke. Also, the recently released live show from 1971 is an amazing
document of P-Funk in their wildest hour.

Jon, who's more psyched for the Pelt/White Winged Moth/Lhasa Cement Plant show
next Monday at the Cooler than anything in the Texaco Festival.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Recent George Clinton live shows
Date: 05 Jun 1998 02:17:11 -0400

[e-mail] wrote:

> Well, I haven't seen them live for 7 or 8 years now, so I can't really answer
> your set of questions very well, except to say that Eddie Hazel (deceased) and
> Bernie Worrell and Bootsy Collins don't play with P-Funk anymore.

Yeah, I'd figured as much.  It's a shame... while Clinton may have been the spark
behind P-Funk, Worrell is clearly responsible for virtually everything that makes
the band important, musically speaking, with Bootsy, Hazel, Hampton, Tiki and
Brailey also large in the mix.  Mainly I was curious about folks like Gary Shider,
Junie Morrison and Michael Hampton at this point...

> The real reason I'm posting, though, is to mention a few essential records not
> among the four you picked up. While Maggot Brain and One Nation Under A Groove
> are superessential, the other two I've always considered to be a notch below
> their classic material. Other records I do consider essential are Funkadelic,
> Standing On The Verge Of Getting It On, Cosmic Slop, First Thangs, and Up For
> The Down Stroke. Also, the recently released live show from 1971 is an amazing
> document of P-Funk in their wildest hour.

"Their wildest hour," as in, two members of the band quit and their replacements
were sight-reading and screwing up, which is what I read on the P-Funk website run
by someone at Duke U.?  Tell me more...

And how do you feel about "America Eats Its Young"?  Just curious... I'm
interested in investigating this one on a cursory examination...

It appears that you are much more allied with the Funkadelic side
(musician-centric) than the Parliament side (vocalist-centric and concept
album-obsessed).  In general I tend to agree... "Maggot Brain" is incredible, and
"One Nation" is very impressive (although the Priority CD issue of "One Nation..."
seems to have been made with a really compressed and limited source... it doesn't
"breathe" at all).  But "Funkentelechy," which includes "Bop Gun" and "Flash
Light," seems pretty crucial to me, and *sounds* a lot better than the "One
Nation..." CD I bought tonight.

> Jon, who's more psyched for the Pelt/White Winged Moth/Lhasa Cement Plant show
> next Monday at the Cooler than anything in the Texaco Festival.

Steve, who HAS to attend the Medeski Martin Wood show next Monday at the Texaco
Tent (TM) for job reasons, and would otherwise be all over your provocative sig
rejoinder...  Pelt is Donald Miller's group, right?

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Parliament, "Flash Light," _Funkentelechy vs. the Placebo Syndrome_


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Recent George Clinton live shows
Date: 05 Jun 1998 03:34:56 EDT


In a message dated 6/5/98 2:19:29 AM, [e-mail] wrote:

<<Also, the recently released live show from 1971 is an amazing
> document of P-Funk in their wildest hour.

"Their wildest hour," as in, two members of the band quit and their
replacements
were sight-reading and screwing up, which is what I read on the P-Funk website
run
by someone at Duke U.?  Tell me more...>>

The drummer and rhythm guitarist had indeed just joined the band and are
pretty sloppy but for me, it doesn't get in the way of the energy that runs
through this set. I guess part of the reason I like this one is that I had
given up hope for a recording which captured the P-Funk experience on disc,
after hearing a bunch of bad records and some mediocre bootlegs. There's no
substitute for the 1971 no-holds-barred feel. Is it a brilliant record? No.
Will fans be psyched they have it? I think so.

<<And how do you feel about "America Eats Its Young"?  Just curious... I'm
interested in investigating this one on a cursory examination...>>

Never got much out of this one. It's the one early Funkadelic album that's a
failure in my eyes.

<<It appears that you are much more allied with the Funkadelic side
(musician-centric) than the Parliament side (vocalist-centric and concept
album-obsessed).  In general I tend to agree... "Maggot Brain" is incredible,
and
"One Nation" is very impressive (although the Priority CD issue of "One
Nation..."
seems to have been made with a really compressed and limited source... it
doesn't
"breathe" at all).  But "Funkentelechy," which includes "Bop Gun" and "Flash
Light," seems pretty crucial to me, and *sounds* a lot better than the "One
Nation..." CD I bought tonight.>>

True in regards to favoring Funkadelic over Parliament. I have the One Nation
release on Charly Groove which sounds as good as my old vinyl did, so I can't
comment on that. The title track on that and Who Says A Rock Band Can't Play
Funk? hold up better than Bop Gun and Flash Light for me. Of course, I played
Parliament's Greatest Hits a million times in college and post-college which
has the latter two and not the first two so that probably has a lot to do with
it. Actually, now that I pull out Funkentelechy and look at the track listing,
Sir Nose D'Voidofunk is pretty great. It's the Funkentelechy and Placebo
Syndrome tracks that never grabbed me on this one.

<<Pelt is Donald Miller's group, right?>>

Donald Miller is in Lhasa Cement Plant. Pelt is a couple of guys from Virginia
who record for VHF.

Can we do Can next, Steve? (Tago Mago-greatest rock album ever!)

Jon
NP: Omit-Quad (Corpus Hermeticum)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rusty Crump <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fripp thinks he is a god
Date: 05 Jun 1998 08:58:41 -0500

>Noo real Zoen content, but I know a lot of list members like
>Fripp. I saw ProjeKct Two (Fripp, Belew, Gunn) and an announcement
>was made before the show that there was no smoking, recording devices,
>or cameras allowed. During the second set a flash went off.
>Everybody left the stage mid-song. An announcement was made
>that whoever took the picture had to turn in the film to the
>sound man and be escorted out of the venue in order for the show
>to resume. About ten minutes later Fripp was back on stage and
>unravelled the roll of film and threw it into the aduience. They
>picked up right where they left off. Great show music wise, but
>Fripp seems like he has a huge ego.
>

Is it egotistical to say, "I have a set of conditions under which I will
play live. If these conditions are not met, I won't play. If these
conditions are broken during the show, I will stop playing."...? I don't
think so. Why should the audience, rather than the artist, determine the
conditions under which the show proceeds? WE pay to see THEM, after all.
That's oversimplified, and the contract involves obligations both ways, but
I admire Fripp's refusal to compromise on some issues -- particularly
audience behavior during the music.

Fripp doesn't have a huge ego, he has a keen awareness of his own value to
the "marketplace." (And a smidgen of the humility that needs to go along
with the recognition that he has value in a marketplace/talent as a
musician.) I like the guy, from what I've read, and this little story just
tickles the shit out of me. I hope I get to see him play live someday.

Rusty Crump
Oxford, Mississippi



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian & Sharon Beuchaw <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  Recent George Clinton live shows
Date: 05 Jun 1998 09:18:51 -0500 (CDT)

On Fri, 5 Jun 1998 [e-mail] wrote:

> Well, I haven't seen them live for 7 or 8 years now, so I can't really answer
> your set of questions very well, except to say that Eddie Hazel (deceased) and
> Bernie Worrell and Bootsy Collins don't play with P-Funk anymore. On the other
> hand, Michael Hampton still does sometimes, depending on the show, and Maggot
> Brain live is a killer. One of the best concerts I've ever seen was The P-Funk
> All-Stars in 1990 or so playing Club Bene in Sayreville, NJ. They played for
> four hours straight, never letting up the funk.

Actually, on their Mothership tour a couple of years ago, Bootsy played
with them (and did his own little solo set in the middle of the show).
Awesome show - they pulled out the old Mothership props and played for 4
hours (which is about the normal time for a P-Funk show).  All the old
ones were with George this time around (except for Bernie, but he played
at the Central Park show, I heard), so it was definitely up to snuff.  It
was one of the funkiest shows I've ever seen and well worth the money and
time (even without Bernie :-)), so I'd recommend going, but that's just my
own opinion.

cya
brian
"The most dementing of all modern sins: the inability to
distinguish excellence from success." - David Hare


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fripp thinks he is a god
Date: 05 Jun 1998 07:59:43 -0700


On Thu, 4 Jun 1998 19:35:40 -0700 (PDT)  a rancid amoeba wrote:
>
> > Fripp has, from the day King Crimson began, been very much concerned with
> > having the final say about how he and the musicians who play with him are
> > represented, whether on a recording or in their live performances.  I don't
> > see that as egotism, more as perfectionism - a big difference.  While I
> > still don't completely agree with the strictness of anti-recording rules, I
> > can at least understand the reasons behind them.  I do agree that recording
> > (in any form - audio or visual) of someone's work and then selling it
> > without their approval is reprehensible.
>
> I'll make a blanket statement that artists that are preoccupied
> with attendees taping the show or taking their picture based on
> the argument that the attendee is going to make money from it
> are coming heavily from the side of egotism, not perfectionism
> or even fairness.
>
> This isn't to say that I feel that it is right to make bootlegs
> and sell them. The reality is, though, that those live bootlegs
> help the artist far more than they hurt them.

Because the discussion is drifting to "to be or not to be recorded". I did
not have that in mind when I followed up on the initial mail. My experience
was a show (about ten years ago) with (I guess) the League of Crafty
Guitarists where Fripp was surrounded by a group of young players (students?
followers?). Fripp acted like a guru surrounded by loving followers. I
thought it was embarrassing. I could not get rid off this feeling during the
all concert.

There were also books sold at the show. Just the title of them put me off.
My interpretration was that Fripp was really taking himself too seriously
(and I don't think that the music he was making at that show could justify
such seriousness).

    Patrice.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fripp, but more on Photography
Date: 05 Jun 1998 12:30:06 -0400 (EDT)


My wife, Susan O'Connor, has done some exceptional jazz performance
shots, but she never uses a flash. Also whenever she takes a picture she
makes sure she is as unobtrusive as possible. Many a time she has told a
musician she has taken his picture and he replies that he hasn't noticed.

That said, she only takes photos where she's allowed. Nothing from the
Victo fests, unfortunately, despite its good lighting, but quite a lot
from clubs and the recent Vision Fests.

She had an exhibition of her jazz photos at the Metro Toronto Reference
Library four years ago, that was held over, and she's going to have
another "display" at a coffee bar here for a month, starting in one week.

Anyone who wants to details etc., e-mail me privately at: [e-mail]

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]



On Fri, 5 Jun 1998, Joseph Zitt wrote:

> Jeff Spirer wrote:
>
> > Let me say as someone who has been paid by artists to photograph them in
> > concert (and published in Drum and Modern Drummer magazine) that this is
> > completely within the artist's rights and may reflect any number of
> > concerns, *not* egotism, including a feeling of intrusion, problems with
> > flash going off during a performance disturbing musicians, contracts with
> > professional photographers, club requirements (musicians often get blamed
> > for having a crowd that fucks with the rules), etc.
>
> Another definite problem with unexpected flashes: A performer who moves
> around on stage a lot (granted, that probably doesn't include Fripp :-])
> can be momentarily blinded and/or disoriented by the flash. If the
> performer is near the lip of the stage and can't see how far away it
> is, this could lead to serious injury.
> --
> ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
> |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
> ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
> |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|
>
> -
>
>

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re: Re[4]: intellectualism, doh!/Pelt
Date: 05 Jun 1998 12:39:11 EDT

On Thu, 4 Jun 1998 [e-mail] wrote:
>      I take it you're referring to
>      the Kabbala and certain forms of Islam and Buddhism. Life is short
>      and, being a non-soulist, I don't look forward to an infinite period
>      of study after death!

Sorry, don't mean to resurrect this thread but one of the main tenants of
(orthodox) Buddhism is that there is no soul.

Okay, can somebody tell me more about Pelt. Just theother day I saw their
recordong listed in Forcedexposure and it said they were from the D.C. area. I
live in the D.C. area and I never heard of them. Please, somebody tell me
more. I'm very curious.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Perfect Sound Forever <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  Recent George Clinton live shows
Date: 05 Jun 1998 12:51:27 -0400

Bernie and Bootsy wrote a lot of the classics with George so it is
pretty telling not having them around.  BUT... George was the mastermind
(Maggot Overlord) behind P-Funk nevertheless.

I've seen P-Funk twice- two or three years ago (Palladium) and again
around the beginning of the '90's (Ritz).  Hampton is a great player
(bandleader?) esp. decked out in a diaper.  Both shows clocked in at
over 3 hours- I was pretty f-ing exhausted at both and actually couldn't
make it through one of them.  Great music, great show but from the clips
I've seen of the ol' P-Funk mob, they were clearly the better group.
Still, if you haven't witnessed them and you're curious, you really owe
it to yourself to check out P-Funk.

Favorite albums of theirs: Maggot Brain (Eddie Hazel's the man),
Standing on the Verge of Getting It On, One Nation Under A Groove.
Uncle Jam Wants You and Let's Take It To the Stage are worth hearing
too.  Any compilation you can find of their early LP's is manna.  I
remember two on Westbound from '75 and '77 and I'm sure there's some
CD's out there like that.

Did somebody say the TAGO MAGO was one of the greatest rock albums
ever?  Give that man a cigar!!!

Jason
--
Perfect Sound Forever
online music magazine
[e-mail]
http://www.furious.com/perfect



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dave" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re: Fripp thinks he is a god
Date: 05 Jun 1998 09:59:39 -0700

>In a message dated 98-06-04 19:00:47 EDT, you write:
>
><< Noo real Zoen content, but I know a lot of list members like
> Fripp. I saw ProjeKct Two (Fripp, Belew, Gunn) and an announcement
> was made before the show that there was no smoking, recording devices,
> or cameras allowed. >>
>
>Dave, was this the Cleveland show on Tuesday? I considered going, but after
>hearing the Projekt 2 CD, I couldn't think of anything that left me
>more....unimpressed and opinionless. It did absolutely nothing at all for me.
>
Yeah, it was the Cleveland show on Tuesday. I liked it a lot. Lots of great improv and Belew looked like a kid with a brand new toy playing his V drum.


Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Jon Mooneyham)
Subject: Re: Recent George Clinton live shows
Date: 05 Jun 1998 12:10:01 -0500

><<And how do you feel about "America Eats Its Young"?  Just curious... I'm
>interested in investigating this one on a cursory examination...>>
>
>Never got much out of this one. It's the one early Funkadelic album that's a
>failure in my eyes.

AARRRGGGGH! NO! _America Eats Its Young_ was the first P-Funk I purchased -
it was in a cut-out bin for a buck at a TG&Y (ca. 1976), so I figured "what
th' fark"... and have never regretted it.  While it doesn't have the
acid-fueled inspiration of _Maggot Brain_ or the sharp focus of _Cosmic
Slop_ (Eddie Hazel's kinda in retrograde for the whole 2 lp's), it features
a smoother facet of the Funkadelic jewel - you can read it in hindsight as
a prototype for the revised/revived Parliament that followed. Tons of
string arrangements and the briliant country-soul synthesis of "Biological
Speculation" - that pedal steel soaring over a shuffling funk groove
lacerated my teenage brain the first time I heard it - the album's still a
favorite from the P-Funk canon...

Jon M.
FATE, Discorporated



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brent Burton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Pelt
Date: 05 Jun 1998 13:14:06 -0400 (EDT)

On Fri, 5 Jun 1998 [e-mail] wrote:

> Okay, can somebody tell me more about Pelt. Just theother day I saw their
> recordong listed in Forcedexposure and it said they were from the D.C. area. I
> live in the D.C. area and I never heard of them. Please, somebody tell me
> more. I'm very curious.

pelt is a great band.  i've played on several bills with them, so i've
seen them in action quite a few times.  they started out in richmond va.
playing noisey rock not too disparate from '80s style sonic youth.  they
released a split 7inch with another richmond band, damn near red, before
morphing into a all-guitar trio.  i'm not sure what happened to their
drummer, but their old bassist, joe lives in falls church now.  for awhile
pelt were more of a blacksburg, va. band, with mike and jack both living in
down in appalachia.  now, i think jack lives in philadelphia, mike lives
not too far from blacksburg and pat still lives in richmond.  i'm not
sure why the vhf press release claimed they were a d.c. band.  they can
hardly get shows here (although they were requested by thurston to open
for sonic youth here @ the 9:30 club in may).
sonically, the current band aspires to essential pure-sound touchstones like
glen branca, popol vuh and terry riley.  amassed droning guitars and
tribal percussion.

b

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Pelt
Date: 05 Jun 1998 12:32:24 -0500 (CDT)

On Fri, 5 Jun 1998, Brent Burton wrote:

> pelt is a great band.  i've played on several bills with them, so i've

What and with whom do you play? It's good to se other DC musicians on the
list.

> sonically, the current band aspires to essential pure-sound touchstones like
> glen branca, popol vuh and terry riley.  amassed droning guitars and
> tribal percussion.

This sounds worth looking into. Can you recommend any recordings?

- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: David Shea vs. Andre Popp
Date: 05 Jun 1998 10:56:50 -0700

I'm beginning to really hate it when I discover the sources of samples.
Picked up the reissue of Andr=E9 Popp's "Delirium in Hi-Fi", and promptly
noticed that "La Polka du Colonel" sounds rather familiar.  Or rather,
about 15 seconds of it does.  As looped into one of the pieces on Shea's
"Prisoner".  When I hear just how much further the original piece goes
beyond those 10 or 15 seconds, I really don't think that I want to hear
Shea's butchery of it again.

Not to pick on Shea in particular (though he chose to mention many of his
inspirations on the Prisoner liner notes, no mention is given for the
arranger of this rather distinctive sample)...and in fact, I'm still quite
a fan of Shea, but I've been experiencing this form of disillusionment
quite often lately.

But rather, I meant to say that Andre Popp is my new hero.  Twisted
orchestral arrangements of chansons.  Backwards, sped up and slowed down,
and a host of other tricks, including some rather impressive "three
dimensional sound" for 1957 and for being in mono, goodness me.  Something
like a Jacques Tati soundtrack on a mild hallucinogen.

Alexander

Radio Khartoum.           http://www.algonet.se/~elegans/radiok/



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Al T)
Subject: RE: Public Image
Date: 06 Jun 1998 00:41:27 GMT

Now that I"ve been enticed by reading the list of artists three or four times --
I missed the original that listed what CD we're talking about....this is a brand
new PIL or what?

Thanks

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Public Image
Date: 05 Jun 1998 11:28:18 -0700

At 12:41 AM 6/6/98 GMT, Al T wrote:
>Now that I"ve been enticed by reading the list of artists three or four
times --
>I missed the original that listed what CD we're talking about....this is a
brand
>new PIL or what?

It was originally released in 1986 as "Album" and it is now available as
"Compact Disc" and "Cassette."


Jeff Spirer
B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/
Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html
Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Tosh)
Subject: Re: David Shea vs. Andre Popp
Date: 05 Jun 1998 11:36:12 -0700 (PDT)

.
>
>But rather, I meant to say that Andre Popp is my new hero.  Twisted
>orchestral arrangements of chansons.  Backwards, sped up and slowed down,
>and a host of other tricks, including some rather impressive "three
>dimensional sound" for 1957 and for being in mono, goodness me.  Something
>like a Jacques Tati soundtrack on a mild hallucinogen.
>
>Alexander
>
>This sounds really interesting!  Could you supply us with some
>information.  What label is Andre Popp on, and is it still in print?

-----------------
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
----------------



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Andre Popp
Date: 05 Jun 1998 12:02:44 -0700

The reissue CD is on Basta (Germany, but distributed by Sony), and I found
it yesterday at both Amoeba and Rasputin in Berkeley, so it's got to be
pretty available.  Look in the lounge/cocktail section wherever you are.

Alexander

Radio Khartoum.           http://www.algonet.se/~elegans/radiok/



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Al T)
Subject: Re: Recent George Clinton live shows
Date: 06 Jun 1998 01:08:02 GMT

While you're out gettin' Up for the Down Stroke and such get the Axiom funk
collection Funkcronium (with lots of our favorite folks) and Clinton's recent
TAPOAFwhatever. Both are relatively current and both totally kick butt! Ditto on
recent live shows!

I think its misleading to forcus on whether Bernie or Bootsie or whoever is or
isn't playing at the moment. Clinton to me parallels Altman's film making. He
gets good ensemble players and give them time and space to work out and
sometimes it all hangs together and other times it doesn't. It's not a
meaningful critique of Players to point out that Warren Beatty and Julie
Christie aren't in it. Nor is it to point out that Players and McCabe look
different. You should never cook the same minestrone twice. In a Clinton
concert, all moments and individuals might not be total jamming but you're not
gonna nod-off and the odds of hitting a number of those critical transcendent
moments in the 4 hour show are *extremely* good. Folks drift on and off the
stage, combine in various mannners, throw off a few riffs, or do a protracted
solo workout on Maggot Brain, or suddenly all show up and chant for 30 minutes
about whomping you upside the head. Sometimes it's falling apart and sometimes
it's falling together. Who can ask for more?

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Klucevsek's 'Altered Landscapes'
Date: 05 Jun 1998 13:30:28 -0500


     Does anyone know of this apparently new release of Guy's on, I
     believe, the Japanese Eva label, either regarding its availability or
     substance?

     Thanks,

     Brian Olewnick



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rusty Crump <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Recent George Clinton live shows
Date: 05 Jun 1998 15:56:29 -0500


>I think its misleading to forcus on whether Bernie or Bootsie or whoever is or
>isn't playing at the moment. Clinton to me parallels Altman's film making. He
>gets good ensemble players and give them time and space to work out and
>sometimes it all hangs together and other times it doesn't. It's not a
>meaningful critique of Players to point out that Warren Beatty and Julie
>Christie aren't in it. Nor is it to point out that Players and McCabe look
>different. You should never cook the same minestrone twice. In a Clinton
>concert, all moments and individuals might not be total jamming but you're not
>gonna nod-off and the odds of hitting a number of those critical transcendent
>moments in the 4 hour show are *extremely* good. Folks drift on and off the
>stage, combine in various mannners, throw off a few riffs, or do a protracted
>solo workout on Maggot Brain, or suddenly all show up and chant for 30 minutes
>about whomping you upside the head. Sometimes it's falling apart and sometimes
>it's falling together. Who can ask for more?
>
>-


Generally, I think this is accurate, but with the addendum that sometimes
you do want to use the exact same recipe for the minestrone. The difference
is that it might be a meal cooked for a lover the first time, showing off
for one's parents (who never really came to grips with the idea that their
kid grew up) another time, cooking a big batch for a dinner party a third
time.... etc. The recipe remains the same, but the minestrone IS different
each time by virtue of the difference in context.

How this metaphor applies to live musical performances would seem to me to
be obvious, so I won't belabor the point. But it is worth pointing out that
using the same recipe IN THE SAME CONTEXT over and over is a Bad Thing. So
bands that play the same set list night after night, to the same audience
which travels around following the band... well, what's the use in that?
It's like going to the same restaurant every night and eating the same red
snapper dish each time.

I won't even begin to address bands like the Dead, the Panic and Phish, for
whom the context remains (or remained) very similar from night to night. I
only hope they change/d the recipe for the minestrone every night. Or even
switched to rogan josh, or collards and cornbread, or pho and bun bi.

Dang. Now I'm hungry.

Point being, as far as live music goes, context/atmosphere/audience can
make the minestrone different, as can using a different recipe.

Rusty Crump
Oxford, Mississippi



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Phil <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: R'n'B / Soul Books
Date: 05 Jun 1998 20:38:54 +0100

The one book you DO need is the superb "Funk, the music the people and the
rhythm of the one" by Rickey Vincent, published by St.Martin's Griffin (US)
in 1996. you should be able to get it from amazon.com. It has a foreward by
George Clinton, an excellent discography, some top photos & a pretty
comprehensive  history of funk music. I keep going back to it for
reccomendations. Wonderful stuff. A new history of P-Funk has aso just been
published - can't remember the
name of it, but amazon have it too & there's a load of information about it
on the P-Funk web site at http://www.gnofn.org/~1nation/begin.html. Haven't
read it yet, but it looks promising.

Phil Clarkson (a true funkateer)
[e-mail]

>From: BJOERN <[e-mail]>
>Subject: book on black music??
>
>is there any good book available that focuses on black music ....
>i am most interested in RnB/Soul focusing books...
>
>BJOERN



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Phil <[e-mail]>
Subject: George Clinton live
Date: 05 Jun 1998 21:52:25 +0100

I saw George & the P-Funk All Stars live last Sunday in London, their
second appearance in town this year. They were better in January, but are
still well worth 3 or 4 hours worth of anyone's time, in my opinion.
Usually, the All-Stars include Gary Shider, Mike "Kidd Funkadelic" Hampton,
Amp Fiddler, Blackbyrd McKnight, Billy "Bass" Nelson amongst a cast of
thousands. Sadly last week, Mike Hampton & Gary Shider were missing, but
the glorious Belita Woods did show - she, more than anyone, has energised
recent P-Funk recordings, I reckon - she has a stunning voice. Also
appearing: George's granddaughter, LaShonda, who does a hilarious rap about
dope, Rodney Skeet Davis on bass, a fabulous 3 piece horn section featuring
Greg Thomas, who did that legendary scat vocal on Knee Deep. Previous shows
have also featured the very silly Louie "Babblin" Kabbabie, P-Funk's own
Sgt Bilko lookalike, George's son Trey Lewd and sometimes Chaka Khan shows
& shakes her thang. Go & see them, you'll laugh, you'll get to shake your
booty & you get to see some glorious fret mangling & horn work.

Bootsy is hitting London in July with a stunning line-up featuring Bernie
Worrell, Fred Wesley, Catfish & a load of old P-Funk alumni. Guess who has
front-row seats?

And for those who dissed "America Eats Its Young", dont forget that it
features Bootsy's first appearance with the Funk Mob, the classic Loose
Booty, and the gobsmacking A Joyful Process, which features a drumbreak to
rival James Brown's Funky Drummer and some glorious clavinet work from
Bernie Worrell. It's worth buying for Pedro Bell's cover alone.

Just my 2p worth....

Phil Clarkson
[e-mail]



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Klucevsek's 'Altered Landscapes'
Date: 05 Jun 1998 13:57:09 -0700


On Fri, 05 Jun 98 13:30:28 -0500  [e-mail] wrote:
>
>
>      Does anyone know of this apparently new release of Guy's on, I
>      believe, the Japanese Eva label, either regarding its availability or
>      substance?

The true title is:


053 - ALTERED LANDSCAPES: AMERICAN MUSIC BACHARACH TO CAGE: Guy Klucevsek

  Music by Amy Denio, Charlie Haden, Burt Bacharach, Henry Cowell, John Cage,
  Alvin Lucier, Alan Hovhaness, Guy Klucevsek.

    1998 - Evva (Japan/Europe), ??? (CD)


It is out in Europe according to Guy Klucevsek. No idea when it will be
available here.

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: a rancid amoeba <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fripp thinks he is a god (fwd)
Date: 05 Jun 1998 14:21:26 -0700 (PDT)


The Zorn list mailer upchucks on Ray's email address, so I'm
forwarding this for him.


chanel

----- Forwarded message from Ray Peck -----

Fripp's problem with people recording his concerts has nothing to do
with money.  He's written numerous times on this topic, including an
essay which he wrote years ago, I believe for Musician magazine, and
which is available on the web (check the Elephant Talk archives).

His reasons have to do with being "in the moment" at the performance,
and the energy that an audience which is "in the moment" lends to the
musicians and to Music with a capital M.  His argument is that someone
recording the show does not have their energy aligned with the
performance, but rather is concerned about the tape, is thinking about
tape levels, and isn't paying the strict attention that they might if
they didn't know that they'd be able to listen to the show again
tomorrow on their Walkman.  And that this keeps that audience member,
and perhaps others around them, from helping the music in some tangible
yet perhaps also metaphysical way.

Being a heavy show taper, I agree with him from direct experience.  When
I am recording a show, I am in a different place than when I am not.



Also, having attended a Guitar Craft Level One course at which I was in
fairly close contact with Robert for 6 days I can say with as near
certainty as one can speak of another's inner workings that the things
he does do not come from "egotism" or even egoism, but rather from the
strongly held belief that he is driven to do whatever is best for Music
(again, with a capital M), often at great expense to him personally.

----- End of forwarded message from Ray Peck -----


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
http://www.arancidamoeba.com/                          [e-mail]
              r e c o r d  l a b e l s  o n  t h e  w e b
                 future home of a rancid amoeba records


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rich Williams <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fripp thinks he is a god
Date: 05 Jun 1998 15:56:55 -0500

[e-mail] wrote:
>  after
> hearing the Projekt 2 CD, I couldn't think of anything that left me
> more....unimpressed and opinionless. It did absolutely nothing at all for me.


    I had a lukewarm reaction to the CD too. Still do, in fact, But the
live show I caught(Huntington, LI) was fantastic. Belews drumming was
OK, but what really amazed me was the amount, and quality of
improvisation, from Fripp and Gunn. It was the best Fripp performance
Ive seen since 1981. Not to be missed. In fact I'm going to drive the
200 miles to see the 6/28 show in Somerville Mass.

Rich


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joe Germuska <[e-mail]>
Subject: books about "black music"
Date: 05 Jun 1998 17:15:48 -0500

At 4:22 PM -0500 6/5/98, Zorn List Digest wrote:
>The one book you DO need is the superb "Funk, the music the people and the
>rhythm of the one" by Rickey Vincent, published by St.Martin's Griffin (US)
>in 1996.

I think Vincent's book is valuable, if only because it's the first book to
deal with Funk as it's own genre, which is absolutely appropriate and
right.  But I have to admit, I gradually grew frustrated at his endless
cheerleaderism -- he was SO positive about every album that I never really
felt like I could use his commentary to know what I wanted to pursue next.
It's not only that he was always positive, but he didn't say a whole lot
about what really happened in the music.  I should probably re-read some of
it before letting that impression ossify, but it's not the best music
writing I've ever come across, how ever dear the subject is to my heart or
the author's.

In any case, other books about "black music"

* BLUES PEOPLE by LeRoi Jones -- probably the first book to address
African-american music as a distinct concept.  Seminal.

* BLACK MUSIC OF TWO WORLDS by John Storm Roberts -- a little dry, but does
a nice job of following the various ways in which African and European (and
to a less obvious extent, Arabic) music met and fused in North and South
America.

* SWEET SOUL MUSIC by Peter Guralnick -- since you asked specifically about
books about Soul or R&B.  This is the only one I've read on the subject.
It's more about the people than about the music, but I enjoyed it quite a
bit.  It covers Memphis/Macon/Muscle Shoals thoroughly, but did leave me
wishing for more about Philly, Chicago, New Orleans, Detroit, and other
important soul cities.

* AS SERIOUS AS YOUR LIFE by Valerie Wilmer -- closest to the actual topic
of this list.  Wilmer covers the development of free jazz, again through
the people, and doesn't shy away from social/political/racial implications
of the music.

Of course, there are lots more.  I like Gene Santoro's "Dancing In Your
Head" which covers all kinds of stuff from early jazz and blues through
rock, pop, and soul, and into the edges of creative jazz.  I think Francis
Davis is good too.  Why doesn't somebody start a music magazine that gives
folks like that a regular place to publish for readers like us?

Joe
--
* Joe Germuska    {[e-mail]} |    Learning Technologies Group
<http://www.nwu.edu/people/j-germuska> |      Northwestern University

"One thing I've learned about time...
                              ...It moves very slowly."  --LaMonte Young

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Can [Re: Recent George Clinton live shows]
Date: 06 Jun 1998 00:25:57 -0400

[e-mail] wrote:

> Can we do Can next, Steve? (Tago Mago-greatest rock album ever!)

It's funny you should say that... I hope this doesn't mark me a pariah, but I just
bought my first Can disc ever just last Saturday.  "Soon Over Babaluma."  It's
cool... not a revelation, but that's most likely because my ears are coming at it
from the wrong direction, post-"Metal Box" and so on.  I try to imagine what this
must have been like with no precedent...  Anyway, I'm interested enough by that
one to want further recommendations, from you and anyone else out there.  "Tago
Mago," you say?  Why's that?

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Arjan Plug" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Andre Popp
Date: 06 Jun 1998 12:57:21 +0200



>The reissue CD is on Basta (Germany, but distributed by Sony), and I found
>it yesterday at both Amoeba and Rasputin in Berkeley, so it's got to be
>pretty available.  Look in the lounge/cocktail section wherever you are.


or order it directly from the Basta-site    http://max.eastsite.nl/BASTA/


Arjan




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "pf(the magic)MENTUM" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Last Call For Hemingway In Ventura
Date: 06 Jun 1998 08:09:38 -0700

One last reminder that the Gerry Hemingway Quartet will be appearing at City
Hall in Ventura on Saturday, June 13 @ 8pm for $7. Tickets at the door. A
promotional newsletter and a custom-made postcard reminder are available
upon request via private e-mail.

This Has Been A pfMENTUM Service Announcement



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Caleb Deupree)
Subject: Re: Can
Date: 06 Jun 1998 11:51:32 -0400

At 12:25 AM 6/6/98 -0400, Steve Smith wrote:
>I just bought my first Can disc ever just last Saturday.  "Soon Over
Babaluma."  >It's cool... not a revelation, but that's most likely because
my ears are coming >at it from the wrong direction, post-"Metal Box" and so
on.  I try to imagine >what this must have been like with no precedent...
Anyway, I'm interested >enough by that one to want further recommendations,
from you and anyone else out >there.  "Tago Mago," you say?  Why's that?

The four albums they put out in the early 1970s, Tago Mago (1971), Ege
Bamyasi (1972), Future Days (1973) and concluding with Soon Over Babaluma
(1974) are their best.  This body of work combines song forms with extended
jams (especially on TM) and innovative studio work.  Several years ago the
Wire put Soon Over Babaluma on the 100 greatest albums of all time list,
but gave Future Days and TM honorable mentions.  Can't really go wrong with
any of them.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian & Sharon Beuchaw <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Can
Date: 06 Jun 1998 11:15:21 -0500 (CDT)

On Sat, 6 Jun 1998, Caleb Deupree wrote:

> The four albums they put out in the early 1970s, Tago Mago (1971), Ege
> Bamyasi (1972), Future Days (1973) and concluding with Soon Over Babaluma
> (1974) are their best.  This body of work combines song forms with extended
> jams (especially on TM) and innovative studio work.  Several years ago the
> Wire put Soon Over Babaluma on the 100 greatest albums of all time list,
> but gave Future Days and TM honorable mentions.  Can't really go wrong with
> any of them.

'Tis true and I would add _Monster Movie_ to that list (just to have
something with Malcolm Mooney in it :-)).  But seriously, it contains the
immortal 20 minute long "Yoo Doo Right" that is just one maaasssiiivveee
groove.  Mooney's singing can get a bit intense at times, but "Yoo Doo
Right" is a *classic* Can song.

cya
brian
"The most dementing of all modern sins: the inability to
distinguish excellence from success." - David Hare


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Of Ophicleides and Sarrusaphones
Date: 06 Jun 1998 19:29:16 -0400

Spent a decent part of the afternoon in the Metropolitan Museum and, for
the first time in a while, ambled through the musical instruments
section, again marveling at the sheer number and wild variety of
noisemakers. The brass and reed section alone is incredible, with items
ranging from normal instruments made from unusual substances (an
earthenware hunting horn, a clear plastic clarinet, an ivory flute) to
mutant offspring like hinged clarinets and double-belled euphoniums and
cornets (about a hundred years before Ben Neill). Amazing place (and the
only part of the museum where, in my judgment, one can properly use the
museum-supplied headphones).

My question is: aside from the "garden variety" strange instruments
(we'll keep it in the wind family for now) like contrabass saxes,
shawms, etc. used by the Braxtons, Ewarts and Parrans of the world, can
anyone name recordings, in the jazz/improv field or otherwise, featuring
some of the odder members of this group? For example, the wonderfully
named ophicleide (or bass horn) is a marvelous looking antecedant of the
tuba--I'd love to hear it in action. SOMEONE must play this thing. The
only person I can think of who played sarrusaphone (a double-reed
saxophone, essentially) was the late Gerald Oshita (once on a Roscoe
Mitchell disc which also featured Brian Smith on a triple contrabass
viol which required him to stand on a riser to play!). There must be
someone out there laying claim to being the Derek Bailey of the
aptly-named serpent! Anyone?

Brian Olewnick

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Of Ophicleides and Sarrusaphones
Date: 06 Jun 1998 21:54:14 -0400

Brian Olewnick wrote:

> (once on a Roscoe
> Mitchell disc which also featured Brian Smith on a triple contrabass
> viol which required him to stand on a riser to play!).

So that's who that was! For years I've been trying to remember who
played the tall bass -- I knew there was some relationship to the
AEC but not a member of it. Thanks...
--
---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tom Pratt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Of Ophicleides and Sarrusaphones
Date: 07 Jun 1998 01:46:51 -0400

> My question is: aside from the "garden variety" strange instruments
> (we'll keep it in the wind family for now) like contrabass saxes,
> shawms, etc. used by the Braxtons, Ewarts and Parrans of the world, can
> anyone name recordings, in the jazz/improv field or otherwise, featuring
> some of the odder members of this group?

Adolph Sax, while inventing different saxophones, made a steam powered
sax and a thing called the "saxo-cannon" (not sure if it actually shot
cannonballs)  (:  This is at least what my music teacher told me but
he's a burnout fuck-up so don't quote me on it.

Not that strange but worth mention is Mats Gustafsson's "flutephone"
which is essentially a flute with a sax mouthpiece (probably so he can
blow the shit out of it).

> There must be someone out there laying claim to being the Derek Bailey
> of the aptly-named serpent! Anyone?

Not exactly Bailey, but Michel Godard plays the tuba and serpent and is
on quite a few Enja discs.

                -Tom Pratt

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Of Ophicleides and Sarrusaphones
Date: 07 Jun 1998 02:18:46 -0400

Brian Olewnick wrote:

> For example, the wonderfully
> named ophicleide (or bass horn) is a marvelous looking antecedant of the
> tuba--I'd love to hear it in action. SOMEONE must play this thing.

I'd be interested in hearing this in an exposed situation as well, but one
place you can sort of hear the ophicleide is on Roger Norrington's "period
instruments" recording of Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique on EMI, most
likely available at midprice or lower now.  A veritable smorgasbord of odd
sounds from within the traditional European orchestra format.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP: Parliament, "Funkentelechy vs. the Placebo Syndrome" (Sir Nose
D'Voidoffunk)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Of Ophicleides and Sarrusaphones
Date: 07 Jun 1998 09:20:00 -0400

Tom Pratt wrote:

> Not that strange but worth mention is Mats Gustafsson's "flutephone"
> which is essentially a flute with a sax mouthpiece (probably so he can
> blow the shit out of it).

Probably so; he does get an interesting sound out of it. That's the
first time I've heard it done with a flute (surprised, in hindsight, it
took so long), but I've always been fond of the sound of the reed
trumpet, especially Rahsaan on something like 'Bye Bye Blackbird'. I'm
guessing the reason it's not more popular is that it's limited to one
octave--is this true? Back around 1978, Joe McPhee would occasionally
play a pocket cornet fitted with a baritone sax mouthpiece; it resulted
in a lovely low sound midway between brass and reed, all the more
surprising coming from such a tiny instrument.

Brian Olewnick

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dominique Leone" <[e-mail]>
Subject: ruins
Date: 07 Jun 1998 12:02:02 PDT

When does the Ruins' Symphonica come out?

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Of Ophicleides and Sarrusaphones
Date: 07 Jun 1998 17:09:30 EDT

In a message dated 98-06-07 09:23:09 EDT, you write:

<< > Not that strange but worth mention is Mats Gustafsson's "flutephone"
 > which is essentially a flute with a sax mouthpiece (probably so he can
 > blow the shit out of it).

 Probably so; he does get an interesting sound out of it. That's the
 first time I've heard it done with a flute (surprised, in hindsight, it
 took so long), but I've always been fond of the sound of the reed
 trumpet,  >>

I seem to remember Eddie Harris doing a lot of reed trumpet things too.

Dale.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Artur Nowak" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Can
Date: 07 Jun 1998 23:29:17 +0200

> "Tago Mago," you say?  Why's that?

- "SOON OVER BABALUMA" is excelent record, but I prefere the albums with
Kenji "Damo" SUZUKI on vocals (TAGO, EGE, FUTURE). I've heard a story
about how he became band singer - Can members met him in a pub in Koeln
(Germany), he was drunk and screeming, they took him home and next day
proposed to be band singer.

If you would like have good overview of Can's work I highly recommend
"CANNIBALISM 1", which is a good selection of their early recordings,
including the famous "Yoo Doo Right" track, which is an excellent
example of Can's live performane.

- "CANNIBALISM"
CD 'C74:14-12' SPOON (CD001/2) 1989.
1. Father Can Not Yell. (7:05)/ 2. Soup. (3:03)/ 3. Mother Sky. (6:41)/
4. She Brings The Rain. (4:07)/ 5. Mushroom. (4:31)/ 6. One More Night.
(5:37)/ 7. Outside My Door. (4:11)/ 8. Spoon. (3:09)/ 9. Halleluwah.
(5:39)/ 10. Aumgn. (7:18)/ 11. Dizzy Dizzy. (3:30)/ 12. Yoo Doo Right.
(20:20).


______________________________________________________________________
     Artur Nowak ([e-mail]) (spam filter in
use)
     www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/default.htm - Discography of Bill Frisell



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: ruins
Date: 07 Jun 1998 18:36:28 -0700 (PDT)

On Sun, 7 Jun 1998, Dominique Leone wrote:

> When does the Ruins' Symphonica come out?

it's out now.

hasta.

Yes.  Beautiful, wonderful nature.  Hear it sing to us: *snap*  Yes.  natURE.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    William York <[e-mail]>
Subject: New Zorn Page Address
Date: 08 Jun 1998 00:22:22 -0400 (EDT)

Some people asked me; the address for this new site is
http://members.xoom.com/jscuth

I'm not at all involved but I recognize this name from this list...

WY


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    William York <[e-mail]>
Subject: NY Flattop Box
Date: 08 Jun 1998 00:35:49 -0400 (EDT)

Some folks probably already know this, but I thought I'd share it anyway.
On Eugene Chadbourne's "LSD C&W" he has a cover of Johnny Cash's
"Tennessee Flat Top Box".  It has a part where it suddenly gets fast like
demented bebop and then slows back down, similar to NY Flat Top Box.
Cash's version doesn't have this.  So I guess that's where that song came
from.

By the way I've been listening to some of those early Chadbourne LPs w/
Zorn, Tom Cora, David Moss, etc.  (another one is "There'll Be No Tears
Tonight").  They're great!! Some people might find them a little indulgent
but there's some funny stuff, mostly warped country songs w/ noise and
bebop thrown in.  Great playing, including duck calls.  I don't know if
they are available anywhere b/c I taped them from my radio station but
just thought I'd share. email me if you want, I guess.

WY, currently at [e-mail]




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    William York <[e-mail]>
Subject: Sorry, folks (re: Chadbourne recs)
Date: 08 Jun 1998 00:44:30 -0400 (EDT)

the correct address is [e-mail], if anyone was interested
in knowing more about those Chadbourne recs.  For the record, does anyone
know for certain if any w/ Zorn in this country style ARE on CD? Thanks

WY


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    William York <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: New Zorn Page Address Correction
Date: 08 Jun 1998 00:51:44 -0400 (EDT)

It's probably this:

> > http://members.xoom.com/jschuth

I left out an h.

If it's not right you can hurt me- esp. J. Zitt who got this message
twice.

WY


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Vadim Marmer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Kronos, again
Date: 08 Jun 1998 14:54:13 +0300 (WET)

i`d like to thank the person who recommended "Pieces of Africa" to me.
i picked up it, and it stays in my CD player 24 hours a day. i really
like  eastern/african melodies and strings on it.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brent Burton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Can
Date: 08 Jun 1998 09:54:20 -0400 (EDT)

On Sat, 6 Jun 1998, Caleb Deupree wrote:

> The four albums they put out in the early 1970s, Tago Mago (1971), Ege
> Bamyasi (1972), Future Days (1973) and concluding with Soon Over Babaluma
> (1974) are their best.  This body of work combines song forms with extended
> jams (especially on TM) and innovative studio work.  Several years ago the
> Wire put Soon Over Babaluma on the 100 greatest albums of all time list,
> but gave Future Days and TM honorable mentions.  Can't really go wrong with
> any of them.

_ege bamyasi_ has always been my favorite for the sheer polyrhythmic
drive.  the earlier can records like _delay 1968_, _monster movie_ and
_sounbdtracks_ have a rawer, more proto-punk edge.
even can agrees that mileage varies greatly after _future days_ because
they began over-dubbing parts with greater frequency, losing the
improvisational group-composing style that made tracks like "mother sky"
so massive.

b

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fritz Feger <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: intellectualism (longish)
Date: 08 Jun 1998 16:21:29 +0200

<paraindent><param>left</param>Sean says:

The point of view that: to hear a melody as a melody, is already an
intellectual viewpoint needs to be spelt out ... do you mean "to pick out
the melody, and call it a melody? or would just humming the melody do?
[...] this view seems more Kantian to me: that to perceive anything is to
categorise it.

</paraindent>

At first I want to put the conceptual framework a little different. The
talk of an "intellectual viewpoint" seems misleading concerning the
approach I want to advocate; I'd rather speak of mental activity, reason
vs. emotion and of concepts and consciousness.=20


Right, I think that sensual perception has to be followed by some sort of
conceptualization (rather than categorization, since this sounds like
sorting everything into an existing shoecase). As Brian already pointed
out, to have any kind of mental representation of music or, to keep the
example, a melody, you have to mentally structure your sensual
experience. And this is corresponds with the recognition of "known"
patterns (they may be quite unconscious) and the construction of new, own
conceptions, in whatever proportions. All this is a mental activity,
where the power of reason is essential, and in that way it is an
intellectual activity. Pure reasoning won't do the job, because it is
only capable of categorizations and logical conclusions and can't lead to
NEW concepts. This developement of a concept of a heard melody is not
necessarily a conscious process, but it can be watched by the
consciousness. It is this concept of the melody, that we appreciate, the
mental image or, if you will, model of a sequence of frequencies and
amplitudes of pressure waves.


The original question of intellectual music appreciation can now be
reconstructed as the question of 1) how much conscious self-investigation
and 2) how much theoretical knowledge is put into the reception.


<paraindent><param>left</param>Brian said:

I could even more eccentricly imagine that one could, with infinite
practice and extraordinary brainpower, learn to read these equations,
mentally coalesce them and appreciate them just as if one had "heard"
them.

</paraindent>

I don't find this idea too eccentric ;-), since this is exactly what you
do when you read music from scores or harmonic symbols. There are
conductors with extraordinary brainpower that read symphonies with dozens
of instruments and "hear" it... The only difference to your example is
that the musical notation is more operational than mathematic
representations of the physics of music.


<paraindent><param>left</param>Brian said:

Those with mystical notions would dispute this and, generally, shudder at
the thought of a deeper analysis of art, fearing that we will loose the
"mystery".


</paraindent>I think Joseph is right when he defends "rigorous schools of
mystical thought" of beeing anti- or non-analytical in a certain sense,
but he's wrong in another. If you understand "analysis" as exact
research, as rigorous thinking, then there are for sure lots of people
with a mystical notion of art which fulfill the highest expectations. But
analysis literally means decomposition, reduction on the elements, and
that seems to be a contradiction to the mysical thinking in "Gestalten",
in irreducible wholes. To me, the crucial point seems to be the
difficulties in the acceptance of emotion, unconscious mental processes,
"Gestalthaftigkeit" and so on as constitutive for art in some radically
analytic aesthetic models, and the denial of radical mysticism to make
use of apparently sucessful reasoning.=20


My personal experience: neither a theoretic approach nor conscious
introspection is capable of destroying the beauty or the mystery of
music; rather it often deepens the love in a marriage of reasonable
emotion... So don't be afraid *grin*! What can destroy the mystery is to
miss the right point to put a record back to the board and leave it there
for a while.


My 2 Pfennig (currently about 1.2 Cent; not too much)

Fritz



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Can
Date: 08 Jun 1998 15:36:37 UT

I have to add a few more fringe records:

Unlimited Edition has some really good grooves on it.

Soundtracks is good mostly all the way through.

And the one right after Soon, which I can't remember the title of, but it has
Hunters & Gatherers and Vernal Equinox on it is a great record, but further in
the well-produced vein.

After that, it pretty much blows, although I have another later disc that has
Smoke and Babylonian Pearl which are two good tunes.  But the rest of the disc
sucks.

Add to that Monster Movie, Tago Mago, Ege Bamyasi and Future Days and you've got
the important ones, as far as I'm concerned.

I'm not really a fan of Delay 1968, as it sounds way to rockish and ungroovy.
Very raw.  At least that's what I remember.  My friend really likes it though,
so, as always, your mileage may vary.

PeterR

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Saidel Eric J <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Can
Date: 08 Jun 1998 10:03:23 -0500 (CDT)


Peter Risser:

> And the one right after Soon, which I can't remember the title of, but it has
> Hunters & Gatherers and Vernal Equinox on it is a great record, but further in
> the well-produced vein.

Landed.  I've been waiting for someone to mention this.  This is one of my
favorites, Can doing something like good old american rock and roll.

Brent Burton mentioned Ege Bamyasi, another favorite of mine, for
the same reason, its polyrythmic drive.  I just wanted to second that.

> After that, it pretty much blows, although I have another later disc that has
> Smoke and Babylonian Pearl which are two good tunes.  But the rest of the disc
> sucks.

Flow Motion.  I don't think this disc sucks.  In fact, with the possible
exception of their last real disc, Rite Time, everything of theirs that I've
heard (and I've heard pretty much everything, and listen to it too much to
say) is really really good.  Even Rite Time has some passable tracks:
Below This Level (Patient's Song) has that old Can feeling.

Also worth checking out are Holger's solo albums.  I really like The
East is Red, and On The Way to the Peak of Normal.  Okay, include Rome
Remains Rome and Movies.


- eric



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Dave" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Personal to David Newgarden
Date: 08 Jun 1998 09:56:19 -0700

Sorry to waste bandwidth, but David Newgarden if you are reading this - have you shippped my Torturegarden LP yet? I lost your e-mail address.




Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Circle9 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Can
Date: 08 Jun 1998 13:04:20 -0400

Not exactly Can, but close... Does anyone know have access to the
soundtrack to Wim Wenders' "Kings of the Road"- Axel Linstadst I believe
was the composer. It was very reminiscient of Can in certain moments.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: dennis summers <[e-mail]>
Subject: Can
Date: 08 Jun 1998 18:48:33 -0600

Steve Smith: It's nice to know that you haven't already listened to every
great band out there. It gives some hope to us slackers. I have to second
(third, fourth) the ealier posters on their Can recommendations. I think
Tago Mago is the classic, but I, like one of the others, lean toward their
first couple of releases for that "proto-punk" energy. However, on a Can
related note, if you can find them check out Holger Czukay's solo releases,
in particular Movies and On The Way To The Peak of Normal. Both highly
idiosyncratic, and thouroughly enjoyable. Also I have greatly enjoyed any of
the Jah Wobble/Czukay collaborations, which can often be found used.

I've been having a problem keeping up with the digests lately, so I may have
missed this conversation. But my vote on Weird Little Boy was a thumbs down.
It just didn't seem to go anywhere, IMO.

yours in zornocity --ds
***Quantum Dance Works***
****http://ic.net/~denniss****


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Wiry and Wired <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Can
Date: 08 Jun 1998 08:26:43 -0700 (PDT)






---Saidel Eric J <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Landed.
> Flow Motion.
> Even Rite Time has some passable tracks:
> Also worth checking out are Holger's solo albums.  I really like The
> East is Red, and On The Way to the Peak of Normal.  Okay, include Rome
> Remains Rome and Movies.

Eric, I'm with you on all these (especially Der Osten Ist Rot & Peak
of Normal) but would warn people to save the later Czukay discs (the
names of which escape me) & Can's Saw Delight for their very last
completist purchases because I can't hear anything on these to enjoy.
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Silent Watcher" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Karl Berger Info, Please
Date: 09 Jun 1998 18:34:38 PDT

Hello all,

I was wondering if anyone on this list could give me opinions on any
Karl Berger albums (preferably something that's available in the US). I
really like the string arrangements he's done on various Laswell albums.
Now I'm curious to hear if his own work is any good.  I was actually
looking specifically at purchasing "Conversations", as it features James
Blood Ulmer and Mark Feldman also. Thanks for any help.

Peace,
SW
For Sale/Want list and Bill Laswell Discography at :
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Karl Berger Info, Please
Date: 09 Jun 1998 21:59:34 -0400

Silent Watcher wrote:
>
> Hello all,
>
> I was wondering if anyone on this list could give me opinions on any
> Karl Berger albums (preferably something that's available in the US). I
> really like the string arrangements he's done on various Laswell albums.
> Now I'm curious to hear if his own work is any good.

Though I'm not sure how available it is nowadays, I've always been a big
fan of his duet with Dave Holland on Sackville, 'All Kinds of Time'.
Also well worth hearing, for Berger and everyone else on it, is Don
Cherry's 'Eternal Rhythm', a classic recently reissued on disc. Amazing
stuff.

Brian Olewnick

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Schwartz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Unjustified Karl Berger opinions
Date: 09 Jun 1998 22:25:18 -0400

I believe Berger is on Don Cherry's Blue Note albums,
which I think rule (and have been reissued in those
annoying limited editions). All Kinds of Time is
wonderful, Conversations OK.
--
Jeff Schwartz
[e-mail]
http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Can
Date: 10 Jun 1998 01:45:25 -0400

dennis summers wrote:

> Steve Smith: It's nice to know that you haven't already listened to every
> great band out there. It gives some hope to us slackers.

Oh goodness, Dennis, there are lots of great artists and bands I've not gotten
around to yet.  (Would you believe I've never heard the Pop Group or anything by
Adrian Sherwood?)  That's one of the reasons I read The Wire from cover to cover
as soon as I get it... yes, I even take notes, like a dork, and carry them to
the store with me.

It's also the best reason for being on the Zornlist.  Thanks for your input re:
Can, and thanks to everyone who chimed in on Parliament-Funkadelic.  Five CDs
and a fine 3 hour show later (short by Funk Mob standards, I understand), I feel
enriched, enhanced, funked up.  No Bootsy and no Bernie, but Clinton himself was
in rare form and Blackbyrd McKnight tore shit up, as did that female guitarist
from the David Letterman show (Felicia something?) who sat in for a few tunes.
And whoever it was that sang "Bop Gun" sounded just like Glen Goins but looked
to young to be him.  "One Nation Under a Groove" was anemic but pretty much
everything else rocked.

Patrice Roussel, on the other hand, has heard every great band out there, and
charted its discography in minute detail as well... ;-)

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - King Crimson - "The Lurking Fear" (bootleg, July '69)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dwight Haden <[e-mail]>
Subject: Frisell
Date: 10 Jun 1998 13:13:53 +0000

Bill Frisell is performing in Chapel Hill on July 18th.  Anybody know
who is in his touring band this time?

  Dwight Haden === [e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Kronos, again/Africa
Date: 10 Jun 1998 11:32:14 -0300

>i'like to thank the person who recommended "Pieces of Africa" to me.

You4re welcome.
I also like a lot eastern/african groups; is there any recommendation on
this kind of music?

-Hugo, from Argentina

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Vadim Marmer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Kronos, again/Africa
Date: 10 Jun 1998 18:25:10 +0300 (WET)

> I also like a lot eastern/african groups; is there any recommendation on
> this kind of music?

few years ago i liked to listen to two Garbarek`s Albums "Madar" and
"Sagas and Ragas" (i hope i spell it correctly), now i`m a little bit
disappointed of Garbarek, but in any way, i think these two are good
examples of jazz-world music.

i also like very much Philip Glass`s album with Ravi Shankar "Passages",
this one, i think, is more close to what Kronos did on "Pieces of Africa".

and talking about Shankar, the last double CD compilation released on EMI
(classics) is just excellent. it includes pieces he recorded with Menuhin,
concerts for Sitar and Orchestra. i can send details if anybody is
interested.

and for the end, my favorite Shankar`s album is "Inside the Kremlin", very
beautiful record.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Can
Date: 10 Jun 1998 10:41:07 -0700


On Wed, 10 Jun 1998 01:45:25 -0400  Steve Smith wrote:
>
> dennis summers wrote:
>
> > Steve Smith: It's nice to know that you haven't already listened to every
> > great band out there. It gives some hope to us slackers.
>
> Oh goodness, Dennis, there are lots of great artists and bands I've not gotten
> around to yet.  (Would you believe I've never heard the Pop Group or anything by
> Adrian Sherwood?)  That's one of the reasons I read The Wire from cover to cover
> as soon as I get it... yes, I even take notes, like a dork, and carry them to
> the store with me.

Dont' worry, you are not the only one :-).

> It's also the best reason for being on the Zornlist.  Thanks for your input re:
> Can, and thanks to everyone who chimed in on Parliament-Funkadelic.  Five CDs
> and a fine 3 hour show later (short by Funk Mob standards, I understand), I feel
> enriched, enhanced, funked up.  No Bootsy and no Bernie, but Clinton himself was
> in rare form and Blackbyrd McKnight tore shit up, as did that female guitarist
> from the David Letterman show (Felicia something?) who sat in for a few tunes.
> And whoever it was that sang "Bop Gun" sounded just like Glen Goins but looked
> to young to be him.  "One Nation Under a Groove" was anemic but pretty much
> everything else rocked.
>
> Patrice Roussel, on the other hand, has heard every great band out there, and
> charted its discography in minute detail as well... ;-)

I don't know where you got this impression. It would be far easier (and much
shorter) for me to say what I know instead of what I don't know :-).

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Kronos, again/Africa
Date: 10 Jun 1998 14:11:47 -0500




I also like a lot eastern/african groups; is there any recommendation on
this kind of music?

-Hugo, from Argentina

     Where to start? In general, I find I mentally divide "world music"
     (for extreme lack of a better, non-Westernized term) into two
     categories: traditional and pop. In the former group, it's tough to go
     wrong. For example, I could do a blind pick from the traditional Iran
     section of my local record mart and end up with something likely to be
     quite beautiful. As you veer towards the pop end of the spectrum, it's
     necessary to exercise a great deal of judgment; there's as much dross
     there as anywhere else, and there's nothing quite so horrible as, say,
     a Senegalese Billy Joel. Feh. (I better watch out--that could be JZ's
     next Great Jewish Music project after Bolan/Feld!)

     Anyway, some of my favorites from various African/Middle-East genres:

     Dumisani Maraire           The African Mbira               Nonesuch
     (Various)                  Night Spirit Masters            Axiom
     Muhamed Abdel Wahab        Music of Muhamed Abdel Wahab    Axiom (?)
     Master Musicians Jojouka   Apocalypse Across the Sky       Axiom
     Toure Kunda                Live Paris-Ziguinchor           Celluloid
     Maleem Mahmoud Ghania      The Trance of Seven Colors      Axiom
     (Various)                  Master Drummers of Dagbon       (?)
     Toumani Diabate            Kaira                           Hannibal
     D'Gary                     Malagasy Guitar                 Shanachie
     Master Musicians Joujouka  Joujouka Black Eyes             Axiom
     Faramarz Payvar            Iran-Persian Classics           Nonesuch
     (Various)                  Music from the World of Islam   (?)
     D'Gary/Mahaleo             The Long Way Home               Shanachie
     Dama Mahaleo               Songs of Madagascar             (?)
     Tarika Sammy               Fanafody                        Xenophile

     (By the way, if there's a finer singer around than Dama Mahaleo, I'd
     like to hear him!)

     There, that's a start. As impossible as it is to keep up with all the
     worthwhile releases in the jazz/improv/contemporary fields, I actually
     find myself hesitating to visit the world area of, say, Tower, as I'm
     sure I'd have no trouble (aside from monetary) of getting several
     hundred fine recordings. Ah well...

     Brian Olewnick








-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: The Zorn list
Date: 10 Jun 1998 15:38:01 EDT

In a message dated 98-06-10 13:43:51 EDT, you write:

<< Oh goodness, Dennis, there are lots of great artists and bands I've not
gotten
 > around to yet.  >>

"yes, I even take notes, like a dork, and carry them to
> the store with me."

> It's also the best reason for being on the Zornlist.

I really just have to add me opinion here and concur with all of the above.
While I may not agree with some of what's been posted here, the music I've
been introduced to and subsequently infatuated with from the posts to this
list far outweigh the instances where I've been disappointed. Many of you have
been a great influence on my CD purchases, and I'd just like to offer a
general "thanks" for the generally intelligent discussions I've seen.

Dale.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Ikue Mori
Date: 10 Jun 1998 15:22:09 -0500

About 6 weeks ago there was a thread about Mori...

I just want to add that I picked up "Painted Desert" with Ribot and Quine
and I really enjoy it.  It's not really "jazz," it's more like a soundtrack
for a move not made.  It's very nice.

Dan



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Phil Plencner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Laswell/Can
Date: 10 Jun 1998 16:16:24 -0500

Just so you're aware:

The latest issue of Downbeat ( July 98) has a fairly interesting article on Laswell in it.  Mainly discussing the Panthalassa CD.

Also, with all this discussion lately with the band Can I ordered Tago Mago and Monster Movie from my local record shop.  Thanks for the
recommendations....

Phil


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Karl Berger Info, Please
Date: 10 Jun 1998 18:05:53 -0400 (EDT)


All of the Sakville avant garde stuff (includding discs by Braxton,
Hemphill, Bowie, G. Lewis etc. etc.) has never been reissued on CD. In
fact the label owners are looking for someone to buy the masters. See the
most recent CODA.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]


On Tue, 9 Jun 1998, Brian Olewnick wrote:

> Silent Watcher wrote:
> >
> > Hello all,
> >
> > I was wondering if anyone on this list could give me opinions on any
> > Karl Berger albums (preferably something that's available in the US). I
> > really like the string arrangements he's done on various Laswell albums.
> > Now I'm curious to hear if his own work is any good.
>
> Though I'm not sure how available it is nowadays, I've always been a big
> fan of his duet with Dave Holland on Sackville, 'All Kinds of Time'.
> Also well worth hearing, for Berger and everyone else on it, is Don
> Cherry's 'Eternal Rhythm', a classic recently reissued on disc. Amazing
> stuff.
>
> Brian Olewnick
>
> -
>
>

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Jamie F Graves)
Subject: New Ribot Disc
Date: 10 Jun 1998 22:52:42 -0400

Thanks to the amazing Sally White, I was able to pick up a copy of the
Cubanos Postizos album today, a few days before the release date
(incidentally, if anyone here is in Southern Connecticut, check out
Sally's Place in Westport, it's an oasis of jazz and hard to find stuff).
In general it's what I expected, considering that I already know
practically every song on the disc from live performances. For those of
you who have seen them live, the disc is a pretty straight and accurate
representation of their style. the onyl difference is the addition of
horns on a few tracks (I didn't now Ribot played the trumpet) and added
organ work from John Medeski and Anthony Coleman. However, I don't think
either of them takes a solo, and what they do add the album is some very
low key back up work.

For those of you who haven't heard them yet, the band is essentially
Ribot soloing over cuban grooves.  His style on the album is remarkably
straight, a little edgier in tone than Circle Maker, but DEFINITELY no
balloons or pocket fans. Pretty much just a fun instrumental rock album
with a cuban flavor. Nothing really that new here though, just a bunch of
musicians having a good time.
Jamie


_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    William York <[e-mail]>
Subject: Another Downtown Question
Date: 10 Jun 1998 23:03:13 -0400 (EDT)

I sort of asked this one last week, but I'll try again, especially after
finding The President "Bring Yr Camera" today for $2.99.  On first listen
this sounds really dated, to me some of the sounds are a little hard
to get through, but what I'm wanting to ask is: how do people feel that
this music has held up (that of Sharp, Horvitz, Previte, Frisell, Zorn).

None of the Zorn stuff sounds dated at all to me, but I can't say this for
everything from this era.  It's almost like there were a lot of sounds and
styles going on that didn't quite gel.  Maybe it's my perspective.  It
also seems like there is much less of a buzz over the Knitting Factory and
a lot of these musicians.  Partly that has to do with many of them
starting their own labels and not being on Nonesuch, I don't know.

But what do people think of as classic recordings of the so-called
downtown scene.  I would have to nominate Big Gundown, Spillane, Spy vs
Spy, hmm maybe Tim Berne's "Fulton St. Maul", LAst Exit, then ...?  I'm
sure Previte has something but I haven't heard those.  Frisell? Sharp?
Arto? I guess
I'm thinking 1985-90 but perhaps the better stuff came before (Locus
Solus, Golden Palominos? ?) Any comments would be appreciated.

William York, a 22 yr old who asks more questions than most 4 yr olds


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Kronos, again/Africa
Date: 11 Jun 1998 00:23:29 EDT

In a message dated 98-06-10 10:44:07 EDT, you ([e-mail]) wrote:

<< I also like a lot eastern/african groups; is there any recommendation on
 this kind of music? >>

Among Brian Olewnick's suggestions:

D'Gary                     Malagasy Guitar                 Shanachie
D'Gary/Mahaleo             The Long Way Home               Shanachie
Dama Mahaleo               Songs of Madagascar             (?)
Tarika Sammy               Fanafody                        Xenophile

I'd recommend anything from Madagascar.  This island country hosts some
fascinating musicians and unique musical instruments.  Tarika Sammy (they now
go only by "Tarika") are one of my absolute favorite groups.  Their latest CD,
_Son Egal_ (on Xenophile), is worth owning not only for the music, but the
risks that the band took in releasing it.  They take more than a few swipes at
the dictatorial government ruling Madagascar and their subsequent squandering
of the island nation's resources.  Also worth looking for are the two volumes
called _Out of Madagascar_ recorded/produced by guitarists David Lindley and
Henry Kaiser during their two visits to the country.  They participate in very
little of the music, if that means anything to you.

=dgasque=


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Nathaniel Dorward <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Karl Berger
Date: 11 Jun 1998 01:50:53 -0300 (ADT)

Check out his performance on John McLaughlin's _Where Fortune Smiles_, an
excellent pre-Mahavishnu album. --N

                        *

                    Nate Dorward  ([e-mail])
                    website: http://is2.dal.ca/~ndorward/

                        *

        And I hear
            what's missing there
            music is core of the missing
                the code of fly time

                        --Clark Coolidge


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Vadim Marmer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: R: Kronos, again/Africa
Date: 11 Jun 1998 09:52:23 +0300 (WET)

> > few years ago i liked to listen to two Garbarek`s Albums "Madar" and
> > "Sagas and Ragas" (i hope i spell it correctly), now i`m a little bit
> > disappointed of Garbarek,
>
> WHY?
i find garbarek is too boring, i think his playing is lack of imagination
or improvisation, and the most important for me, i just don`t like his
sound, there`s too much "new age" in it, i think,he made half way to
yani/kenny G (ok, may be the last statement is too strong). all that i
said, of course, is just a matter of taste, and i still like him on a
couples of albums, for example, "Nude Ants" or "Belongings"


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re[2]: Kronos, again/Africa
Date: 11 Jun 1998 09:03:17 -0500


     dgasque wrote:

>I'd recommend anything from Madagascar.  This island country hosts some
>fascinating musicians and unique musical instruments.  Tarika Sammy (they now
>go only by "Tarika") are one of my absolute favorite groups.

For the sake of historical accuracy, the two lead female singers of Tarika
Sammy (Sammy's Group), Hanitra and Noro, broke off to form their own band,
Tarika. Sammy Andriamalalaharijaona has continued with his band which, I
think, is still called Tarika Sammy.

> Their latest CD, _Son Egal_ (on Xenophile), is worth owning not only for the
>music, but the risks that the band took in releasing it.  They take more than
>a few swipes at the dictatorial government ruling Madagascar and their
>subsequent squandering of the island nation's resources.

While I enjoy 'Son Egal' also, Hana has taken the group in a slightly more pop
oriented direction than Sammy and, overall, I prefer the latter ("Tsenao Amin'
Ny Gara" from the 'Fanafody' album is an all-time killer song). I caught
Tarika Sammy a few years back at Symphony Space and they put on a wonderful,
infectious show, though it seemed clear that Hana had pop-star ambitions.
It'll be interesting to follow their development.

>Also worth looking for are the two volumes called _Out of Madagascar_
>recorded/produced by guitarists David Lindley and Henry Kaiser during their
>two visits to the country.  They participate in very little of the music, if
>that means anything to you.

     The series is called 'A World Out of Time' and there are actually
     three volumes (last time I looked) available now. All are worth
     owning; they run the gamut from extreme traditional to sugary pop, but
     each contains at least several gems. To the extent that it's a
     pop/folk song, Dama Mahaleo's 'Kobaka' (if I'm recalling the spelling
     correctly) from Vol. 1 is one of the two or three most beautiful
     examples of the form I've ever heard. (Incidentally, the record of his
     I cited on my original list is actually titled 'Melodies de
     Madagascar'.)

     Check 'em out.

     Brian Olewnick
-





-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brent Burton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Another Downtown Question
Date: 11 Jun 1998 09:52:46 -0400 (EDT)

On Wed, 10 Jun 1998, William York wrote:

> I sort of asked this one last week, but I'll try again, especially after
> finding The President "Bring Yr Camera" today for $2.99.  On first listen
> this sounds really dated, to me some of the sounds are a little hard
> to get through, but what I'm wanting to ask is: how do people feel that
> this music has held up (that of Sharp, Horvitz, Previte, Frisell, Zorn).

i thought the president records sounded dated as soon as they came out.
maybe nonesuch exerted some kind of civilizing effect on the music
and got horvitz to take the edge off for the sake of the consumer?  i
don't know.  i think some of horvitz's playing with naked city sounds a
bit dated now 10 years down the road, but for the most part i think those
records hold up really well.

b

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "M.A. Piper" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Kronos, again/Africa
Date: 11 Jun 1998 08:56:36 -0500 (EST)



On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 [e-mail] wrote:

    >of the island nation's resources.  Also worth looking for are the two volumes
    >called _Out of Madagascar_ recorded/produced by guitarists David Lindley and
    >Henry Kaiser during their two visits to the country.  They participate in very
    >little of the music, if that means anything to you.
    >

Actually, the Kaiser/Lindley discs are called _A World Out of Time_ and
there are three volumes, all on Shanachie. The D'Gary albums came from the
same sessions. <=-)


Michael


The Official Henry Kaiser Website
    http://php.indiana.edu/~mpiper/HKMain.html
        "The best in contemporary improvisation..."



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Another Downtown Question
Date: 11 Jun 1998 07:58:18 -0700


On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 09:52:46 -0400 (EDT)  Brent Burton wrote:
>
> On Wed, 10 Jun 1998, William York wrote:
>
> > I sort of asked this one last week, but I'll try again, especially after
> > finding The President "Bring Yr Camera" today for $2.99.  On first listen
> > this sounds really dated, to me some of the sounds are a little hard
> > to get through, but what I'm wanting to ask is: how do people feel that
> > this music has held up (that of Sharp, Horvitz, Previte, Frisell, Zorn).
>
> i thought the president records sounded dated as soon as they came out.

This kind of puzzles me. Zillion of records are released every year with
many of them rehashing cliches and tricks defined/introduced by others long
time ago, and keep on getting the stamp of "cutting edge". My musical
knowledge is far from being what I would like it to be, but as far as I know,
Horvitz' style is pretty unique. Are you bothered that he still keeps on
writing melodies? Should he do 100% free improv like zillions of others to not
look "dated" (because rehashing TOPOGRAPHY OF THE LUNGS 30 years after does
not seem dated by most of the "on the edge" audience)?

> maybe nonesuch exerted some kind of civilizing effect on the music
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I doubt that. The first record on Elektra (THIS NEW GENERATION) was a
compilation of two President records that came on Dossier. BRING YR CAMERA
is in direct filiation with THIS NEW GENERATION.

> and got horvitz to take the edge off for the sake of the consumer?  i
                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Would you say the same of Zorn's records on Nonesuch? No, then why are you
assuming that for Horvitz?

> don't know.  i think some of horvitz's playing with naked city sounds a
> bit dated now 10 years down the road, but for the most part i think those
> records hold up really well.

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brent Burton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Another Downtown Question
Date: 11 Jun 1998 11:12:13 -0400 (EDT)

On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

> This kind of puzzles me. Zillion of records are released every year with
> many of them rehashing cliches and tricks defined/introduced by others long
> time ago, and keep on getting the stamp of "cutting edge". My musical
> knowledge is far from being what I would like it to be, but as far as I know,
> Horvitz' style is pretty unique.

well, just because something is unique doesn't necessarily mean that it's
great or even good.

> Are you bothered that he still keeps on writing melodies? Should he do
> 100% free improv like zillions of others to not look "dated" (because
> rehashing TOPOGRAPHY OF THE LUNGS 30 years after does not seem dated by
> most of the "on the edge" audience)?

zillions?  "boy i can't swing a bat on the sidewalk in front of my
buidling without hitting some free improv artist!"  the melodies don't
bother me, it's just the keyboard sounds he chose.  not my bag.  just
sounded dated to these ears.  i'll grant you that there was certainly a
time when i equated fusion with "dated" or "sucks," but a lot of that has
to do with musicians taking the most banal aspects of a genre and fusing
them into something even worse.  however, i just bought herbie hancock's
"sextant" (1973) and boy is that one ass-kicking record!  the band manage
an amalgamation of everything raw about free-jazz, electronics
experimentation and gut-bucket funk.  dated?  no way!

> Would you say the same of Zorn's records on Nonesuch? No, then why are you
> assuming that for Horvitz?

maybe.  i mean zorn recorded some great records for nonesuch, but they
wouldn't budge when he wanted to put a decapitated head on a cover.
nonesuch ultimately answer to elektra and on up the line.  when you're
dealing with a major label the bottom line is always what sells.

b

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Another Downtown Question
Date: 11 Jun 1998 08:48:51 -0700


On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 11:12:13 -0400 (EDT)  Brent Burton wrote:
>
> On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> > This kind of puzzles me. Zillion of records are released every year with
> > many of them rehashing cliches and tricks defined/introduced by others long
> > time ago, and keep on getting the stamp of "cutting edge". My musical
> > knowledge is far from being what I would like it to be, but as far as I know,
> > Horvitz' style is pretty unique.
>
> well, just because something is unique doesn't necessarily mean that it's
> great or even good.

I agree but I can't remember the number of times I had to argue with people
who claimed that being unique was enough to be worth listeming. OK, I know
now that you are not one of them :-).

> > Are you bothered that he still keeps on writing melodies? Should he do
> > 100% free improv like zillions of others to not look "dated" (because
> > rehashing TOPOGRAPHY OF THE LUNGS 30 years after does not seem dated by
> > most of the "on the edge" audience)?
>
> zillions?  "boy i can't swing a bat on the sidewalk in front of my
> buidling without hitting some free improv artist!"  the melodies don't
> bother me, it's just the keyboard sounds he chose.  not my bag.  just
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Darn! You don't like the DX7? Be careful, the DX7 will be in ten years what
the Hammond organ it today ;-).

> sounded dated to these ears.  i'll grant you that there was certainly a
> time when i equated fusion with "dated" or "sucks," but a lot of that has
> to do with musicians taking the most banal aspects of a genre and fusing
> them into something even worse.  however, i just bought herbie hancock's
> "sextant" (1973) and boy is that one ass-kicking record!  the band manage
> an amalgamation of everything raw about free-jazz, electronics
> experimentation and gut-bucket funk.  dated?  no way!

Hum, you make me curious about that one (hey, I even love ROCKIT). I will
definitely look for it.

> > Would you say the same of Zorn's records on Nonesuch? No, then why are you
> > assuming that for Horvitz?
>
> maybe.  i mean zorn recorded some great records for nonesuch, but they
> wouldn't budge when he wanted to put a decapitated head on a cover.
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^
You see, the hassle had very little to do with music but with packaging
issues. You would have a hard time to find a company of this size putting
such records out. Hey, even EARACHE (or TOYS FACTORY?) had second feelings
about the record sleeves of the Pain Killer records.

> nonesuch ultimately answer to elektra and on up the line.  when you're
> dealing with a major label the bottom line is always what sells.

In this case, I am tempted to say that the management of Nonesuch is either
clueless of has strong suicidal tendencies... I mean, if I really want to
buy your statement ("the bottom line is always what sells").

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Wiry and Wired <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Unjustified Karl Berger opinions
Date: 11 Jun 1998 08:49:33 -0700 (PDT)


To the Berger-curious:

I absolutely agree with JS's opinions below & would like to add that
my favorite Berger is a quartet disc on Black Saint called Around. It
is surprisingly pretty & rewards a close listen (you know, staring at
the speakers) as well as making outstanding dinner music.  A
promising-looking trio disc with the word Crystal in the title came
out soon afterward & left me absolutely cold.

Regards
WW




---Jeff Schwartz <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> I believe Berger is on Don Cherry's Blue Note albums,
> which I think rule (and have been reissued in those
> annoying limited editions). All Kinds of Time is
> wonderful, Conversations OK.
> --
> Jeff Schwartz
> [e-mail]
> http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html
>
> -
>
>

==
Love?  What is it?  Most natural painkiller what there is.  LOVE.  --the last words of William Burroughs


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sean Terwilliger <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Unjustified Karl Berger opinions
Date: 11 Jun 1998 12:08:53 -0400

Just visited the FAX page and there am informed that Berger and Namlook have put out a duo... Might be
intresting (as will the Opera mentioned on the Axiom page...)

-Sean

Wiry and Wired wrote:

> To the Berger-curious:
>
> I absolutely agree with JS's opinions below & would like to add that
> my favorite Berger is a quartet disc on Black Saint called Around. It
> is surprisingly pretty & rewards a close listen (you know, staring at
> the speakers) as well as making outstanding dinner music.  A
> promising-looking trio disc with the word Crystal in the title came
> out soon afterward & left me absolutely cold.
>
> Regards
> WW
>
> ---Jeff Schwartz <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >
> > I believe Berger is on Don Cherry's Blue Note albums,
> > which I think rule (and have been reissued in those
> > annoying limited editions). All Kinds of Time is
> > wonderful, Conversations OK.
> > --
> > Jeff Schwartz
> > [e-mail]
> > http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html
> >
> > -
> >
> >
>
> ==
> Love?  What is it?  Most natural painkiller what there is.  LOVE.  --the last words of William Burroughs
>
> _________________________________________________________
> DO YOU YAHOO!?
> Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
>
> -




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Wiry and Wired <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: New Ribot Disc
Date: 11 Jun 1998 08:50:24 -0700 (PDT)






---Jamie F Graves <[e-mail]> wrote:
> the disc is a pretty straight and accurate
> representation of their style

> Nothing really that new here though, just a bunch of
> musicians having a good time.

If the disc is like the single performance I heard, most of the tunes
are by a little known & absolutely fantastic composer, Arsenio
Rodriguez who will be new to most listeners.  I raced out & got a
representative disc by AR immediately & love it.  It's called COmmo Se
Goza en el Barrio & comes from Tumbao Cuban Classics  (TCD-022).

Let's dance!
WW
==
Love?  What is it?  Most natural painkiller what there is.  LOVE.  --the last words of William Burroughs


_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re[2]: Another Downtown Question
Date: 11 Jun 1998 11:38:08 -0500




     Patrice wrote:

>This kind of puzzles me. Zillion of records are released every year with many
>of them rehashing cliches and tricks defined/introduced by others long time
>ago, and keep on getting the stamp of "cutting edge". My musical knowledge is
>far from being what I would like it to be, but as far as I know, Horvitz'
>style is pretty unique. Are you bothered that he still keeps on writing
>melodies? Should he do 100% free improv like zillions of others to not look
>"dated" (because rehashing TOPOGRAPHY OF THE LUNGS 30 years after does not
>seem dated by most of the "on the edge" audience)?

     Ouch! That's certainly a nail deserving to be hit on the head, though
     parsing out which performances are rehashes and which are not gets a
     bit sticky.

     While I enjoy the President releases (and think they're an interesting
     precursor to Previte's recent fusion investigations), I think I hear
     at least part of what William was complaining about. Horvitz' electric
     piano-y sound does tend to impart a slickening quality (though, yes he
     writes lovely melodies) and I recall thinking at the time that I was
     glad for Sharp's participation in the band as he manages to inject a
     bit of grit into the proceedings. A number of other records from the
     downtown folk at the time (off-hand, I'm thinking of Moss', Tacuma's,
     Arto's, etc) utilized a drum machine sound that I'm sure was the cat's
     meow then, but quickly (in fact, instantly) sounded horribly thin and
     shallow.

     I think my favorite of Horvitz' from that period was his solo, 'Dinner
     at Eight' on Dossier.

     BTW, any Robin Holcomb fans out there? I find some of her song-format
     works to be very beautiful, her lyrics refreshingly honest and, for
     that matter, I loved her 'classical' release, 'Little Three'. Anyone
     know what, if anything, she has planned for the near future?

     Brian Olewnick




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Allen Gittelson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fishing with John Lurie + Henry Kaiser comments on Parachute Year
Date: 11 Jun 1998 09:31:29 -0700

Greetings,

Two items of interest to this group.

1)  Regarding the Fishing with John:

I just stumbled across these notes which can be found at
http://www.sfweekly.com which is from a weekly here in San Francisco.

John Lurie, became a trace ruffled in the mid-'80s when his screen
performances in Jim Jarmusch's Stranger Than Paradise and Down by Law
brought him much-deserved publicity. Acting was just a diversion for Lurie.
His true darling was, and still is, the somewhat infamous, wholly
irreverent, oftentimes ingenious Lounge Lizards -- a mutable nine-piece that
has been creating skewed jazz since 1979. Despite his grumbling, though, the
connection between the Lizards and movies seems permanent: Lurie gladly
received screen time in The Last Temptation of Christ, Wild at Heart, and
Blue in the Face, and of the band's 18 recordings, half are film scores. To
make matters worse, whenever the Lounge Lizards have had time to release a
new studio album (as opposed to their numerous live recordings) a soundtrack
has been nipping at their heels. In 1987, it was No Pain for Cakes followed
by Down by Law; in 1989, it was Voice of Chunk followed by Mystery Train.
Now, in 1998, we have what is possibly the Lizards' most notable -- and
perhaps spiritual -- work. Queen of Ears finds Lurie tempering his cartoon
antics with touches of African juju rhythm, Gnawan harmony, Burundi
drumming, and klezmer noodling. Sadly, few people will be able to regard
this work without also considering Fishing With John, the newly released
soundtrack that accompanies Lurie's brilliantly absurd fishing show --
hosted, written, and directed by himself -- which is scheduled to debut on
the Independent Film Channel on Monday, June 15, at 8:30 p.m., and on Bravo
on Friday, June 19, at 11:30 p.m. The first six episodes find Lurie shark
fishing with Jim Jarmusch in Montauk, snapper fishing with Tom Waits in
Jamaica, snook fishing with Matt Dillon in Costa Rica, ice fishing with
Willem Dafoe in Maine, and giant-squid hunting with Dennis Hopper in
Thailand (a two-parter). After seeing Fishing With John, it's impossible to
separate Lurie's signature sax line from the droll voice of narrator Robb
Webb: "These are real men, doing real things." You will be forever haunted
by images of Waits getting seasick, Dillon flapping his arms during the
sacred fishing dance, Dafoe offering his armpit as an answer to hypothermia,
and Hopper all hopped up on pingpong. For the sake of upright music
appreciation, check out John Lurie & the Lounge Lizards before the show
airs, at the Fillmore on Saturday, June 13, at 9 p.m. Tickets are $25; call
775-7722.

I'd be very interested in seeing this, but alas I have no way to do so.  I
do not have nor desire cable television (except for viewing this).

2)  I saw this on the Henry Kaiser web pages which can be found at:
http://php.indiana.edu/~mpiper/HKMain.html

*THE PARACHUTE YEARS 1977-1980 (TWINS/LA CROSSE CD), John Zorn, Tzadik TZ
7316-1.
HK needs to relate an anecdote about this product: Eugene Chadbourne told me
that he had written great historical notes for this documentry CD of the
group TWINS recorded back in 1977. He told me that I would really enjoy
them. Then when I got my copy I was surprised that the notes were not
printed in the CD. I wondered why and asked Chadbourne. He said that Zorn
thought I would be offended by the notes and and so he didn't include them.
I was telling this to ROVA's Larry Ochs and he said: no, that was wrong.
Zorn didn't print the notes because Chadbourne took too much credit for
"Zorn's ideas." ...Oh well .....some things never do change......... I
emailed Eugene and asked to see the censored notes. But he had lost them.

Very interesting.

Ciao,

Allen

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Perfect Sound Forever <[e-mail]>
Subject: African Music (was Kronos, again/Africa)
Date: 11 Jun 1998 13:00:48 -0400

A lot of my favorite music from Africa comes from Nigeria.  Sunny Ade
(who's playing later this month in NYC at Tramps), Fela Kuti (RIP),
Babatunde Olatunji (who's still touring), I. K. Dairo and Ebenezer Obey
are just a few (of many performers) who are worth checking out.

Glad to see there haven't been any 'ripping out the culture' arguments
here about Western musicians-that's a real crock.

Jason

--
Perfect Sound Forever
online music magazine
[e-mail]
http://www.furious.com/perfect



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Yin Pin <[e-mail]>
Subject: ny spots and things to do
Date: 12 Jun 1998 01:39:51 +0000

hi, this has probably be asked before on the list.
but was wondering if anyone could recommend places,
record stores (besides cadence, downtown music gallery
and northcountry) and things to do in new york between
21st-23rd of june.

thanks.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: David Keffer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Source for Locus Solus Records
Date: 11 Jun 1998 14:05:38 -0400


Hello Folks on the Zorn-List,

I am looking to pick up some records on the new label,
"Locus Solus".  It is the Japanese arm of Recommended=20
Records.  Anybody know of a mail order site for these
records?  The two releases on Locus Solus so far are:

Charles Hayward=20
"Double Agent(s): Live in Japan Volume 2"=20
Locus Solus Records - LSR 002 - released May, 1998=20
compact disc=20
featuring C. Hayward with Keiji Haino, Tatsuya Yoshida,=20
Yoshihide Otomo, and Peter Br=F6tzmann.=20
               =20
Charles Hayward=20
"Escape from Europe:  Live in Japan Volume 1"
Locus Solus Records - LSR 001 - released 1996=20
compact disc=20

Thanks.

David K.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Silent Watcher" <[e-mail]>
Subject: While we're on the subject of Int'l music...
Date: 11 Jun 1998 11:02:38 PDT

Hoping some knowledgeable list-member might be able to help me out with
this :

I just obtained a ney (Egyptian flute) and a rhaita (Moroccan double
reed instrument) and need some help.  Basically, with the Ney at least,
I can't figure out how to play it.  It has six finger holes, but
nowehere to blow into like a western flute does.  It's open on both
ends, but neither end appears to be for the purpose of blowing into. Is
it possible there's some sort of mouthpiece that I don't have?  As far
as the rhaita...it's been compared to an oboe, and I was lead to believe
that you could use oboe reeds with it. There is no mouthpiece, but there
is an opening about 7/16" in diameter at the top. Being unfamiliar with
the physical characteristics of an oboe, is this in any way similar, or
is there a mouthpiece involved here too, like the woodwind instruments
that I'm familiar with. Any help at all would be extremely appreciated.

Peace,
SW
For Sale/Want list and Bill Laswell Discography at :
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Caleb Deupree)
Subject: Re: Source for Locus Solus Records
Date: 11 Jun 1998 14:18:37 -0400

>>>>> "David" == David Keffer <[e-mail]> writes:

    David> I am looking to pick up some records on the new label,
    David> "Locus Solus".  It is the Japanese arm of Recommended
    David> Records.  Anybody know of a mail order site for these
    David> records?  The two releases on Locus Solus so far are:

    David> Charles Hayward "Double Agent(s): Live in Japan Volume
    David> 2" Locus Solus Records - LSR 002 - released May, 1998
    David> compact disc featuring C. Hayward with Keiji Haino,
    David> Tatsuya Yoshida, Yoshihide Otomo, and Peter
    David> Brotzmann.  Charles Hayward "Escape from Europe:
    David> Live in Japan Volume 1" Locus Solus Records - LSR 001 -
    David> released 1996 compact disc

Wayside has Escape from Europe, crediting it as a UK release though.
They are the US distributor for ReR, so I'd keep checking back with
them at http://members.aol.com/Cuneiform2/cuneiform.html.

---
Caleb T. Deupree
;; Opinions...  funny thing about opinions, they can change.

Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers.
(Pablo Picasso)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Douglas Tapia)
Subject: Re: Another Downtown Question
Date: 11 Jun 1998 12:22:08 -0700

>I sort of asked this one last week, but I'll try again, especially after
>finding The President "Bring Yr Camera" today for $2.99.  On first listen
>this sounds really dated, to me some of the sounds are a little hard
>to get through, but what I'm wanting to ask is: how do people feel that
>this music has held up (that of Sharp, Horvitz, Previte, Frisell, Zorn).

I'm aware that another very enlightning conversation is even now underway
on this subject between Brent Burton and Patrice Roussel, but when I tried
to tie in their conversation with my opinions on this subject I found
myself quite bewildered, besides they have said really all their is to be
said about the merits of uniqueness and the DX-7  .-}

So on to my opinion of all this.  I think the problem with a lot of the
music from the '80s is that musicians were given, for the first time, new
tools that enabled them to work in a cloistered fashion.  This is
especially evident, to me, in the music of Horvitz and Frisell from this
period. Yes, the sounds are difficult to get through, but the problem is
this:  Much of the music is defined by the sounds.  (Remember, this was the
time when "New Age" began to boom.)  People with rudementary keyboard
skills were sitting down at synths and letting the timbres suggest the
pieces that were being written.  Wayne was busy plaing with drum machines
and samplers.  And, as I've always asserted, just because I, as a
keyboardist, can now play a saxophone or drum sample with relativly good
tone and intonation, does not mean that I really ought to.

I think that it's fair to say that in a few cases some of these musicians
traded in their normally good taste for an opprutunity to showcase these
new instruments in a way that was atypical of their
composition/improvisition styles.  This era if fascinating for this reason:
Taking Horwitz as an example, I think that the first President albums were
fairly weak, as their focus was really more on the cool new sounds and
slick production than on real musical substance, though this in itself was
an esential part of these musicians' development, and therefore important.
(Remember, this was the age of pink spandex and big hair)

In the Frisell and Horvitz albums of this era, I think that the technical
learning curve can be seen quite plainly.  Remember, when this stuff was
brand new nothing really sounded real and there was nobody who could make
drum machines and sequencers groove.  Now at the close of the millennium,
not only are there people who can sequence tracks that are nearly
indistinguishable from "real" players. (Now we have drumers who
intentionally immitate drum machines. . .but that's a different post)
Horwitz now creates music with much more substance and melodic content than
the earily days of the President.  He's gotten used to the instruments and
has incorporated them into his sound/concept.  _Miracle Mile_ is a great
example of technology and musicality coming together in a good way.

As for Frisell. . .  Well, you'll note that Bill hasn't been using a lot of
drum machine lately.  In fact, Bill's had one semi-acoustic project after
another lately.  Horvitz and Previte have jam bands or bar bands, if you
will. (Bobby's term, you'll note)  Zorn's output seems rather acoustic
instrument centered as well, though as you've pointed out, his stuff ages
pretty well.  I suspect this has to do with Zorn's constant avoidence of
anything that smells like mainstream.

I think we're all in agreement that every era has a signiture sound.  We're
all influenced by changing socital values.  We either take some part of
that and use it, or we react against it.  This forms the "sound of an era"
Certainly, we are seeing a shift from lush, electronic synth textures to a
newfound facination with acoustic based music.  Take the fairly recent
renewed interest in country music, folk music, ethnic/world music, etc.
Also look at the trend in jazz away from fusion to earthy, funky sounds ala
MMW, Zony Mash, Henery Thredgill, etc.  Will we look back and say, "wow!
that sounds really late '90s!"?  Almost surely.

--peace

Doug



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Horvitz, Zorn, E#, (drummer) quartet
Date: 11 Jun 1998 13:36:59 -0500

Anybody know what label this disc will be released on and when? And who is
the drummer, Previte or Wollesen?

Thanks,
Dan



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brent Burton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Another Downtown Question
Date: 11 Jun 1998 14:36:09 -0400 (EDT)

On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Douglas Tapia wrote:

> I think we're all in agreement that every era has a signiture sound.  We're
> all influenced by changing socital values.  We either take some part of
> that and use it, or we react against it.  This forms the "sound of an era"
> Certainly, we are seeing a shift from lush, electronic synth textures to a
> newfound facination with acoustic based music.  Take the fairly recent
> renewed interest in country music, folk music, ethnic/world music, etc.
> Also look at the trend in jazz away from fusion to earthy, funky sounds ala
> MMW, Zony Mash, Henery Thredgill, etc.  Will we look back and say, "wow!
> that sounds really late '90s!"?  Almost surely.

well, your inquiry seems to be trying to get @ the heart of what makes
music age well.  i don't think you'll ever listen to masada records and
say "how 90's" any more than you would listen to the stooges and say "how
60's".  i think that varese's and xenakis' early electronic works sound
amazing all these decades later, yet some of the downtown music from the
knitting factory comps sounds real dated.  i think you have the essence of
the idea and that is that the artist needs a true musical voice (think how
great coltrane still sounds today) that isn't swayed by musical trends.
another example would be tom waits.  trends be damned, you can always tell
a tom waits song the instant you hear it.  technology fetishism rarely leads
to music that can stand the test of time.  my point was that hancock's
"sextant" holds up remarkably well regardless of the synths used, because
the music came first.  they didn't write around the technology and they
didn't haphazardly throw the coolest, newest technology on the record just
for commercial appeal.

b

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Horvitz, Zorn, E#, (drummer) quartet
Date: 11 Jun 1998 12:11:26 -0700


On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 13:36:59 -0500  Dan Hewins wrote:
>
> Anybody know what label this disc will be released on and when? And who is
> the drummer, Previte or Wollesen?


*** - DOWNTOWN LULLABY: John Zorn, Elliott Sharp, Wayne Horvitz, Bobby Previte

    Recorded at Avatar Studios, New York on January 15, 1998

  John Zorn; Wayne Horvitz; Elliott Sharp; Bobby Previte.

    1998 - Depth Of Field (USA), DOF CD 2-2 (CD)

  Note: not released yet (planned for June 1998).


Depth Of Field is Bobby's label.

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Paul Audino <[e-mail]>
Subject: Need Help Tracking Down _Meridiem_
Date: 11 Jun 1998 14:17:12 -0500 (CDT)


Hello all,

    I could use some leads in my search
to track down the Laswell/Howard/Hayward/Frith: _Meridiem_ release which
the Materiali Sonori web page says has been released.  I did find one
all-Italian web site, but the lack of English translations would make
ordering a daunting task.

Thanks,

Paul
[e-mail]

  GROOVE
----------
One Nation



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Douglas Tapia)
Subject: Re: Another Downtown Question
Date: 11 Jun 1998 13:27:26 -0700

>> I think we're all in agreement that every era has a signature sound.  We'=
re
>> all influenced by changing societal values.  We either take some part of
>> that and use it, or we react against it.  This forms the "sound of an era=
"
>> Certainly, we are seeing a shift from lush, electronic synth textures to =
a
>> newfound fascination with acoustic based music.  Take the fairly recent
>> renewed interest in country music, folk music, ethnic/world music, etc.
>> Also look at the trend in jazz away from fusion to earthy, funky sounds a=
la
>> MMW, Zony Mash, Henery Thredgill, etc.  Will we look back and say, "wow!
>> that sounds really late '90s!"?  Almost surely.
>
>well, your inquiry seems to be trying to get @ the heart of what makes
>music age well.  i don't think you'll ever listen to masada records and
>say "how 90's"

I did not mean to suggest that all music from an era will be immediately
identifiable with said era.  This is obviously not the case, and I know
that there are more exceptions to this gross generalization than I'd ever
want to take on.  That being said (and I cringe as I write this at the
thought of all the emails I may get telling me how wrong I am)  I think
that Masada is sort of a 90's phenomenon.  World music, cultural awareness,
harmolidic concept. . .  these are pretty 90's things.   Have you noticed
that everyone is getting rid of the piano lately (again) in favor of less
traditional harmonic instruments (or no harmonic instrument at all?)  This
has been with us for a long time, but it's becoming more present in the
music as of late.  Admittedly, Masada is definitely one of the--if not
THE--group at the forefront of this shift.

 any more than you would listen to the stooges and say "how
>60's".  i think that varese's and xenakis' early electronic works sound
>amazing all these decades later,

Oh yes, it's all amazing, but I get misty eyed when I hear Glenn Gould play
Bach. (Who, by the way, sounds very 18th century to me despite the fact
that nobody else working at the time could touch him)  Saying that
something is identifiable with an era does not preclude it being good.  All
really great music IS timeless, but that doesn't mean that I can't put a
date on it by listening.

 yet some of the downtown music from the
>knitting factory comps sounds real dated.

Absolutely!  I think this happens when people try to sound hip, try to
associate themselves with this particular camp or that instead of just
letting it be what it's going to be.  Real music is a mirror of our human
experience, or our experiences as humans, if you will.

  i think you have the essence of
>the idea and that is that the artist needs a true musical voice (think how
>great coltrane still sounds today) that isn't swayed by musical trends.

I speak not only of musical trends, but of cultural.  Yes, Trane was on a
different path, but my little mind will always equate him and that sound
with that era.  He helped to define it, surely, but it still could have
only happened in the 60s.  He wore 60's cloths, shopped at 60's stores, ate
60's food, was bombarded with 60's advertisements.  His music came from the
heart of his humanity, but his body was living in 1960s United States.  We
can't get away from that.  It was an era of civil right, ethnic awareness,
racial solidarity.  Trane still makes me cry because I feel the era, as
well as the man expressed in his music.  Is Trane dated and pass=E9?  I'll
punch anyone who says yes.  Can he be identified with an era?  Yeah, I
think he can.

>another example would be tom waits.  trends be damned, you can always tell
>a tom waits song the instant you hear it.  technology fetishism rarely lead=
s
>to music that can stand the test of time.  my point was that hancock's
>"sextant" holds up remarkably well regardless of the synths used, because
>the music came first.

I couldn't agree more.

they didn't write around the technology and they
>didn't haphazardly throw the coolest, newest technology on the record just
>for commercial appeal.

I don't think it was commercial appeal that Bill or Wayne were after
either.  I think they are just gear heads who were playing with some new
toys and their judgment was perhaps a little clouded by the newness of it
all.

--Doug



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Chris Genzel)
Subject: Re: Hancock's Sextant
Date: 11 Jun 1998 22:16:26 +0200


> > them into something even worse.  however, i just bought herbie hancock's
> > "sextant" (1973) and boy is that one ass-kicking record!  the band manage
> > an amalgamation of everything raw about free-jazz, electronics
> > experimentation and gut-bucket funk.  dated?  no way!
>
> Hum, you make me curious about that one (hey, I even love ROCKIT). I will
> definitely look for it.

 I really have to recommend Sextant. It's weird, funky, deep and intense.
 It was my first Hancock record and I loved it; I was 14 at the time I first
 heard it and used to listen to Iron Maiden, Helloween & Queen (well, I still do
 that sometimes). It blew me away.
 Please note that Bill Laswell took an obvious sample from "Rain Dance", the
 first track on Sextant, into Material's "Ghost Light/Dread Recall" (on the
 Axiom Dub CD). Acknowledging roots, I'd say.

 Kind regards,
 - Chris.

 ---------------------------------------------
 *    Chris Genzel --- [e-mail]    *
 * Homepage & Herbie Hancock discography at: *
 *    http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil/   *
 ---------------------------------------------


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: dennis summers <[e-mail]>
Subject: Robin Holcomb
Date: 11 Jun 1998 15:13:17 -0600

        BTW, any Robin Holcomb fans out there? I find some of her song-format
     works to be very beautiful, her lyrics refreshingly honest and, for
     that matter, I loved her 'classical' release, 'Little Three'. Anyone
     know what, if anything, she has planned for the near future?

Yes, I'm a huge Holcomb fan, although when I first got her 1st "song" disc
(self titled), it sure took me off guard. Naturally I expected more abstract
jazz. But those songs, Man, they just make me ache with emotion. I don't
know how she does it, or where any of this came from.

yours in zornocity --ds
***Quantum Dance Works***
****http://ic.net/~denniss****


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Robin Holcomb
Date: 11 Jun 1998 14:24:04 -0700


On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 15:13:17 -0600  dennis summers wrote:
>
>         BTW, any Robin Holcomb fans out there? I find some of her song-format
>      works to be very beautiful, her lyrics refreshingly honest and, for
>      that matter, I loved her 'classical' release, 'Little Three'. Anyone
>      know what, if anything, she has planned for the near future?
>
> Yes, I'm a huge Holcomb fan, although when I first got her 1st "song" disc
> (self titled), it sure took me off guard. Naturally I expected more abstract
> jazz. But those songs, Man, they just make me ache with emotion. I don't
> know how she does it, or where any of this came from.

You can add me also to the club. My initial interest came of course from the
connection with Wayne Horvitz. Then I discovered her first two records on Sound
Aspects and realized how a gifted composer she is (many of the songs are really
moving, and the playing is superb):

*** - TODOS SANTOS: Horvitz, Morris, and Previte play the music of Robin Holcomb
  1988 - Sound Aspects (Germany), SAS CD 019 (CD)
*** - LARKS, THEY CRAZY: Robin Holcomb
  1989 - Sound Aspects (Germany), sas CD 026 (CD)

Then she made her two song records, very different from the above. But the magic
worked again (haunting melodies). I am kind of sad that she did not get more
recognition from these two records.

LITTLE THREE did not do too much to me, but I did not really listen to it with
the attention it deserves (the music is not as directly appealing as on her
previous two song records). But I will.

To my knowledge, she has no other records planned.

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Another Downtown Question
Date: 11 Jun 1998 14:46:47 -0700


On Wed, 10 Jun 1998 23:03:13 -0400 (EDT)  William York wrote:
>
> I sort of asked this one last week, but I'll try again, especially after
> finding The President "Bring Yr Camera" today for $2.99.  On first listen
> this sounds really dated, to me some of the sounds are a little hard
> to get through, but what I'm wanting to ask is: how do people feel that
> this music has held up (that of Sharp, Horvitz, Previte, Frisell, Zorn).

The Carbon records (Sharp) stood up time very well. They are beyond time
consideration and fashion.

> But what do people think of as classic recordings of the so-called
> downtown scene.  I would have to nominate Big Gundown, Spillane, Spy vs
> Spy, hmm maybe Tim Berne's "Fulton St. Maul", LAst Exit, then ...?  I'm
> sure Previte has something but I haven't heard those.  Frisell? Sharp?
> Arto? I guess

ENVY by Arto Linday and the Ambitious Lovers should be on the list! It
is a great mix of dancing music with an very special edge. One my
top records. See more below.

Previte's records are not really NY downtown, except for geographical,
logistic, and casting reasons. I see his records more like modern jazz,
with great emphasis on writing, and grooves.

> I'm thinking 1985-90 but perhaps the better stuff came before (Locus
> Solus, Golden Palominos? ?) Any comments would be appreciated.

LOCUS SOLUS is one, the first GOLDEN PALOMINOS another.

I would add (top of my head):

*** - KILLING TIME: Massacre
*** - MEMORY SERVES: Material
*** - BASELINES: Bill Laswell
*** - THE LOUNGE LIZARDS (???? - EG Records, EEGCD 8)
*** - TOCSIN: Elliott Sharp's Carbon
  (or DATASIDE)
*** - DENSE BAND: David Moss (1985 - Moers Music, 02076 CD)
*** - THIS NEW GENERATION: Wayne Horvitz
*** - GOOD AS GOLD: OWT (1989 - Homestead Records, HMS140-2)
  (this is David Linton and Zeena Parkins)
*** - WEATHER CLEAR, TRACK FAST: Bobby Previte (1991 - Enja Records, R2 79667)

> William York, a 22 yr old who asks more questions than most 4 yr olds

    Patrice.
> -
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Caleb Deupree)
Subject: Re: Need Help Tracking Down _Meridiem_
Date: 11 Jun 1998 17:48:01 -0400

>>>>> "Paul" == Paul Audino <[e-mail]> writes:

    Paul>     I could use some leads in my search to track down the
    Paul> Laswell/Howard/Hayward/Frith: _Meridiem_ release which the
    Paul> Materiali Sonori web page says has been released.  I did
    Paul> find one all-Italian web site, but the lack of English
    Paul> translations would make ordering a daunting task.

I've had some success with other Materiali Sonori releases at
ab-cd.com.

---
Caleb T. Deupree
;; Opinions...  funny thing about opinions, they can change.

Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers.
(Pablo Picasso)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Robin Holcomb
Date: 11 Jun 1998 18:32:42 -0400

Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

> LITTLE THREE did not do too much to me, but I did not really listen to it with
> the attention it deserves (the music is not as directly appealing as on her
> previous two song records). But I will.

By all means, give it another go. Holcomb seems to me to be operating
out of a very deep, rich Americana vein, something that's been none too
fashionable for a long while (though Fahey _has_ made a nice comeback).
I found myself be reminded a lot of Samuel Barber while listening to the
extended piano pieces on 'Little Three' and, from me, that's high
praise. There's a beguiling quality of wistfulness/strength/melancholy
in much of her stuff that I love. There's also, in her songs, a loving
and deep appreciation for the lives of those living outside of the hip
centers of the universe. The lyrics to 'So Straight and Slow' just floor
me with their love of the poetry of everyday life and the sympathy that
allows her to simply state (and encapsulate, with understanding, a small
segment of American culture):

    A deer struck down by a car
    Brings two cows in trade.

Amazing line; sung, perhaps, with melancholy but not horror or derision.
That song and 'Deliver Me', both from the self-titled Elektra album, are
killer.

> To my knowledge, she has no other records planned.

Arggh.

Brian Olewnick

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Another Downtown Question
Date: 11 Jun 1998 22:20:44 -0400 (EDT)



On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 [e-mail] wrote:

>      While I enjoy the President releases (and think they're an interesting
>      precursor to Previte's recent fusion investigations), I think I hear
>      at least part of what William was complaining about. Horvitz' electric
>      piano-y sound does tend to impart a slickening quality

I also found this very offputting on first exposure.  But over repeated
listening I've found it makes a nice contrast with the edgier, subtler
stuff usually going on in the background of President tracks.  The
slickness of some of the keyboard sounds (along with Horvitz's
straightforwardly lovely melodies) makes the edgy bits seem even
creepier.

>      A number of other records from the
>      downtown folk at the time (off-hand, I'm thinking of Moss', Tacuma's,
>      Arto's, etc) utilized a drum machine sound that I'm sure was the cat's
>      meow then, but quickly (in fact, instantly) sounded horribly thin and
>      shallow.

Man, I love that drum machine sound!  I think what I like about a lot of
the work that came out of this scene in the early to mid-80's is in part
the sense that a lot is being accomplished with limited technical means,
both in terms of the equipment (e.g. cheap sounding drum machines, even
much of Horvitz's gear in comparison to the kind of keyboards typical for
pop and fusion of the day) and the skill level of some of the players.
While there were certainly some virtuosic players on the scene then, those
records seem to be littered with players (Arto being the most obvious
example) with a much lower standard of technique than you find on the
"downtown" scene today.
     I actually think these factors helped the music
in a couple of ways:  They kept it for ever falling into mere
displays of instrumental facility, and they forced the players to develop
interesting contexts in which these limited resources could shine.  While
there are obviously still great records being made by people in New York,
it seems to me that these particular virtues are in shorter supply now
then they were 15 years ago.
     But maybe I'm falling into the trap of only
looking at highlights of the past.

Chris Hamilton



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Another Downtown Question
Date: 11 Jun 1998 22:30:55 -0400 (EDT)



On Wed, 10 Jun 1998, William York wrote:

> It
> also seems like there is much less of a buzz over the Knitting Factory and
> a lot of these musicians.  Partly that has to do with many of them
> starting their own labels and not being on Nonesuch, I don't know.

I'd suggest two other reasons:  Some of the figures most prominently
associated with the "downtown" tag (Frisell, Horvitz) have moved away from
New York.  And with the Texaco Jazz Festival, the Knit seems (at least
from my perspective in Pittsburgh) to have pretty much become the dominant
jazz club.  (I realize the Vanguard and others still get more tourist
trade, but they don't seem to book many non-ancient musicians.)  It can't
be hip anymore if it defines the mainstream.

Chris Hamilton



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Race and "Downtown": Another Question
Date: 11 Jun 1998 22:41:53 -0400 (EDT)



Reading the recent posts on the 80's "downtown" scene, I was struck by the
fact that, other than Brian Olewnick's mention of Jamaaladeen Tacuma, the
artists being discussed were overwhelmingly "white".  It brought to the
surface a question that's been nagging at the back of my mind for quite a
while.
     Why does the "downtown" tag tend to attach to "white" musicians
and not "black" ones?  I understand why, say, the NYC energy scene
dominated by "black" musicians tends not to get mentioned in the same
sentences as Zorn et al.  It sounds really different, and there's not that
much overlap among the players.  But even guys like Butch Morris, George
Lewis, and Don Byron whose work is of a similar spirit to the standard
"downtown" names and have often worked with musicians who are identified
with that scene aren't generally discussed as "downtown" players.

     Please note that I'm not accusing anyone on this list of racism.  To
the extent that we've bought into the distinction on this list, it's just
the result of taking the use of the "downtown" tag in the press.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Kronos, again/Africa
Date: 12 Jun 1998 00:47:11 EDT

In a message dated 98-06-11 09:34:31 EDT, you (brian_olewnick) wrote:

<< For the sake of historical accuracy, the two lead female singers of Tarika
 Sammy (Sammy's Group), Hanitra and Noro, broke off to form their own band,
 Tarika. Sammy Andriamalalaharijaona has continued with his band which, I
 think, is still called Tarika Sammy. >>

Thanks for the info- was completely unaware of this...

I chucked:

>Also worth looking for are the two volumes called _Out of Madagascar_
>recorded/produced by guitarists David Lindley and Henry Kaiser during their
>two visits to the country.  They participate in very little of the music, if
>that means anything to you.

  Brian then said:

     The series is called 'A World Out of Time' and there are actually
     three volumes (last time I looked) available now.

Thanks for the correction.  I was obviously working offline resources at the
moment!

=dgasque=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Kronos, again/Africa
Date: 12 Jun 1998 01:31:58 -0400

[e-mail] wrote:

> In a message dated 98-06-11 09:34:31 EDT, you (brian_olewnick) wrote:
>
> << For the sake of historical accuracy, the two lead female singers of Tarika
>  Sammy (Sammy's Group), Hanitra and Noro, broke off to form their own band,
>  Tarika. Sammy Andriamalalaharijaona has continued with his band which, I
>  think, is still called Tarika Sammy. >>
>
> Thanks for the info- was completely unaware of this...

I think the pop-oriented Tarika is the one Henry Kaiser now refers to as "Tarika
Shammy."

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Hancock's Sextant
Date: 12 Jun 1998 02:03:12 -0400

Chris Genzel wrote:

> > > them into something even worse.  however, i just bought herbie hancock's
> > > "sextant" (1973) and boy is that one ass-kicking record!  the band manage
> > > an amalgamation of everything raw about free-jazz, electronics
> > > experimentation and gut-bucket funk.  dated?  no way!
> >
> > Hum, you make me curious about that one (hey, I even love ROCKIT). I will
> > definitely look for it.

I'd like to jump in here to make one note: "Sextant" is in incredible album and I
agree with what Chris wrote about it.  Its two predecessors, "Mwandishi" and
"Crossing," feature  the same band (minus the synth programmer and extra
percussionist who came on board with "Sextant") and are also worth checking out by
those into the deeper mysteries of UR-fusion, back when things were actually being
"fused".....  The core of that band was a first rate jazz sextet, which may have a
lot to do with why this experimental stuff still sounds good now... Hancock, Bennie
Maupin, Eddie Henderson, Julian Priester, Buster Williams and Billy Hart.  Both of
the earlier albums are available in an inexpensive two-CD set of the complete
Hancock recordings for Warner Brothers (which also includes an earlier album's worth
of material from "Fat Albert" by a different Hancock band).

Those into the funky sounds of analogue and incredibly early digital keyboards
simply must check these out, as Herbie deploys everything from mellotron to ARP and
most points in between.  Such lunatics won't mind the $25+ price tag on the Japanese
Sony import Forced Exposure has so kindly provided  (I bought mine two weeks ago.)
But for the merely curious who are scratching their heads over spending a bunch of
money on the Japanese import, I would only add that Columbia Legacy will be issuing
a domestic version, complete with English-language liner notes, in August or
September.

It was immediately after "Sextant" that Herbie took a radical about-face into
simpler music and funkier grooves with the bestselling "Headhunters."  That album
also has its  merits (it ain't Spyro Gyra or Kenny Gorelick, that's for sure), but
Herbie's most cutting edge material was on the three previous albums.

And yes, Patrice, I too enjoy "Rockit" (and just watched Herbie and band play it
live on a Saturday Night Live rereun on Comedy Central last night), but I think that
that was a cutting edge *Laswell* record... wouldn't you agree?

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: While we're on the subject of Int'l music...
Date: 12 Jun 1998 18:24:22 +1000

> it possible there's some sort of mouthpiece that I don't have?  As far
> as the rhaita...it's been compared to an oboe, and I was lead to believe
> that you could use oboe reeds with it. There is no mouthpiece, but there
> is an opening about 7/16" in diameter at the top. Being unfamiliar with
> the physical characteristics of an oboe, is this in any way similar, or
> is there a mouthpiece involved here too, like the woodwind instruments
> that I'm familiar with. Any help at all would be extremely appreciated.

I don't usually use inches but I would say an oboe reed is closer to about
a third of an inch. The reeds go straight into the top of the oboe by the
way, no extra mouthpiece.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Chris Genzel)
Subject: Re:  Hancock's Sextant
Date: 12 Jun 1998 10:44:34 +0200


> I'd like to jump in here to make one note: "Sextant" is in incredible album
> and I agree with what Chris wrote about it.  Its two predecessors, "Mwandishi"
> and "Crossing," feature  the same band (minus the synth programmer and extra
> percussionist who came on board with "Sextant") and are also worth checking
> out by those into the deeper mysteries of UR-fusion, back when things were
> actually being "fused".....  The core of that band was a first rate jazz
> sextet, which may have a lot to do with why this experimental stuff still
> sounds good now... Hancock, Bennie Maupin, Eddie Henderson, Julian Priester,
> Buster Williams and Billy Hart.

 By the way, Bennie Maupin and Dr. Patrick Gleason (both contributed excellently
 to "Sextant" and "Crossings") have issued a new CD, "Driving While Black".
 It's obviously some sort of trip-hop-jazz; I hope I can get it soon. This duo
 has one track on "Macro Dub Infection, Vol. 2", as Magnet, but the track is
 remixed by Techno-Animal, so you can't really tell how they sound.

> It was immediately after "Sextant" that Herbie took a radical about-face into
> simpler music and funkier grooves with the bestselling "Headhunters."  That
> album also has its  merits (it ain't Spyro Gyra or Kenny Gorelick, that's for
> sure), but Herbie's most cutting edge material was on the three previous
> albums.

 I wouldn't call it simpler ... it's easier to catch on, but there are still
 some difficult things going on. For a glimpse of the Sextant days, listen
 to the last track on "Secrets" (1976), which Bennie Maupin wrote, "Sanso
 Shima". It's quite intense. But you're right, the 1971-1973 albums were the
 most weird ones.

> And yes, Patrice, I too enjoy "Rockit" (and just watched Herbie and band play
> it live on a Saturday Night Live rereun on Comedy Central last night), but I
> think that that was a cutting edge *Laswell* record... wouldn't you agree?

 I'd too say that "Future Shock", "Sound-System" and "Perfect Machine" are
 Laswell albums ... though Hancock presumably had some influence on these
 records, it was most probably Laswell who put things together.


 ---------------------------------------------
 *    Chris Genzel --- [e-mail]    *
 * Homepage & Herbie Hancock discography at: *
 *    http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil/   *
 ---------------------------------------------


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject:       Re: sarrusophone
Date: 12 Jun 1998 11:21:08 GMT0BST

Hope someone can remember this thread: is the sarrusophone a double-
reed instrument?  Whatever, Sidney Bechet is playing one on a
Clarence Williams' Blue Five session from 1924 (or 1923? with
Armstrong): the track I have is "Mandy, Make Up Your Mind".  It (the
s/phone) sounds horrible in a very interesting way!

Sean Wilkie

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Paul Audino <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Need Help Tracking Down _Meridiem_
Date: 12 Jun 1998 08:47:55 -0500 (CDT)


On Thu, 11 Jun 1998, Caleb Deupree wrote:

> >>>>> "Paul" == Paul Audino <[e-mail]> writes:
>
>     Paul>     I could use some leads in my search to track down the
>     Paul> Laswell/Howard/Hayward/Frith: _Meridiem_ release which the
>     Paul> Materiali Sonori web page says has been released.  I did
>     Paul> find one all-Italian web site, but the lack of English
>     Paul> translations would make ordering a daunting task.
>
> I've had some success with other Materiali Sonori releases at
> ab-cd.com.

Thanks for the recomendation.  ab-cd.com does have it for about $22.  In
case anyone is looking, _Lingo_ the new Almamegretta disc, is available at
www.musicexpress.com for a similar price.

Thanks,

Paul
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Raymond Scott
Date: 12 Jul 1998 14:42:02 UT

I just got the Beau Hunks doing a Raymond Scott tribute, and although the
production is much better than the thin stuff of the originals (I have the
Columbia package too) and it's very good, I was wondering

does anyone know of any covers of Raymond Scott tunes that rock?  I'm looking
for somebody like the NRG Ensemble to cover some of his tunes or something I
guess.  Anything like that?

Thanks,
Peter

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joe Sever <[e-mail]>
Subject: Raymond Scott -Reply
Date: 12 Jun 1998 10:00:41 -0400

I just picked up Don Byron's _Bug Music_, which is essentially a "tribute"
(for lack of a better term) of the "music of The Raymond Scott Quintette,
John Kirby & His Orchestra, and The Duke Ellington Orchestra".

It's well done, and the lineup consists of folks associated with the
"Downtown" scene (this _is_ the Zorn list...)  -- Joey Baron, Steven
Bernstein, David Gilmore.  I'm not sure it "rocks", though...

j

>>> <[e-mail]> 07/12/98 10:42am >>>
I just got the Beau Hunks doing a Raymond Scott tribute, and although the
production is much better than the thin stuff of the originals (I have the
Columbia package too) and it's very good, I was wondering

does anyone know of any covers of Raymond Scott tunes that rock?  I'm
looking
for somebody like the NRG Ensemble to cover some of his tunes or
something I
guess.  Anything like that?

Thanks,
Peter

-



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Race and "Downtown": Another Question
Date: 12 Jun 1998 08:14:18 -0700


On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 22:41:53 -0400 (EDT)  Christopher Hamilton wrote:
>
>
>
> Reading the recent posts on the 80's "downtown" scene, I was struck by the
> fact that, other than Brian Olewnick's mention of Jamaaladeen Tacuma, the
> artists being discussed were overwhelmingly "white".  It brought to the
> surface a question that's been nagging at the back of my mind for quite a
> while.
>      Why does the "downtown" tag tend to attach to "white" musicians
> and not "black" ones?  I understand why, say, the NYC energy scene
> dominated by "black" musicians tends not to get mentioned in the same
> sentences as Zorn et al.  It sounds really different, and there's not that
> much overlap among the players.  But even guys like Butch Morris, George
> Lewis, and Don Byron whose work is of a similar spirit to the standard
> "downtown" names and have often worked with musicians who are identified
> with that scene aren't generally discussed as "downtown" players.
>
>      Please note that I'm not accusing anyone on this list of racism.  To
> the extent that we've bought into the distinction on this list, it's just
> the result of taking the use of the "downtown" tag in the press.

Nobody is surprised that the free improv is mainly played by white musicians
(Bailey, Parker, etc), because it came from Europe.

I guess the only reason I see why so few blacks are involved with the NY
downtown scene is that the roots of this genre are to be found mainly in free
improv and contemporary music. Blacks are overwhelmingly present in (post)free
jazz, but almost absent from free improv. With the exception of Braxton, Leo
Smith, G. Lewis, etc, blacks are also almost absent from contemporary
classical music.

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Raymond Scott
Date: 12 Jun 1998 10:45:16 -0500


Peter Risser wrote:

>does anyone know of any covers of Raymond Scott tunes that rock?  I'm looking
>for somebody like the NRG Ensemble to cover some of his tunes or something I
>guess.  Anything like that?

     Well, don't know if it "rocks" or not, but Phillip Johnston's version
     of 'Powerhouse' on one of his Big Trouble albums (I think the first
     one on Black Saint) is certainly rollicking.

     Brian Olewnick
-





-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: sarrusophone
Date: 12 Jun 1998 09:09:55 -0700


On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:21:08 GMT0BST  DR S WILKIE wrote:
>
> Hope someone can remember this thread: is the sarrusophone a double-
> reed instrument?  Whatever, Sidney Bechet is playing one on a
  ^^^^^

Double-reed, that's what I heard, altough I have never seen any.

    Patrice.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Hancock's Sextant
Date: 12 Jun 1998 13:25:14 -0700


On Fri, 12 Jun 1998 02:03:12 -0400  Steve Smith wrote:
>
> And yes, Patrice, I too enjoy "Rockit" (and just watched Herbie and band play it
> live on a Saturday Night Live rereun on Comedy Central last night), but I think that
> that was a cutting edge *Laswell* record... wouldn't you agree?

You bet! This is with records like that I started to pay attention to
Laswell (the first tickling being the great KILLING TIME).

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: chad edwards <[e-mail]>
Subject: Phantamos
Date: 13 Jun 1998 19:27:48 -0700 (PDT)



 I just read in a recent issue of Guitar World that
Mike Patton has been collaborating with Dave
Lombardo, King Buzzo and Trevor Dunn under the name
Phantamos. It was only a short blurb and left many
questions unanswered. Does anyone out there know
anything more about this? Are they recording?

Chad



_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Phantamos
Date: 14 Jun 1998 13:46:01 +1000

>  I just read in a recent issue of Guitar World that
> Mike Patton has been collaborating with Dave
> Lombardo, King Buzzo and Trevor Dunn under the name
> Phantamos. It was only a short blurb and left many
> questions unanswered. Does anyone out there know
> anything more about this? Are they recording?

Apparently they were pretty indecisive about that name, and have settled on
Fantomas. If all the info I have is true, then the band was all Patton's
idea. He's written a bunch of material, kind of in the realm of Naked City
I suppose, with some "spooky" atmospherics as well. He got his ideas
together, then asked the other 3 whether they'd be interested. They said
yes, and I think they're doing some shows in NY and SF. If they record, it
will be some time next year, when the next Mr Bungle record has been taken
care of.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Dave Trenkel)
Subject: Re: Re[2]: Another Downtown Question
Date: 13 Jun 1998 09:02:08 -0700

At 10:20 PM 6/11/98, Christopher Hamilton wrote:
>On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 [e-mail] wrote:
>
>>      While I enjoy the President releases (and think they're an interesting
>>      precursor to Previte's recent fusion investigations), I think I hear
>>      at least part of what William was complaining about. Horvitz' electric
>>      piano-y sound does tend to impart a slickening quality
>
>I also found this very offputting on first exposure.  But over repeated
>listening I've found it makes a nice contrast with the edgier, subtler
>stuff usually going on in the background of President tracks.  The
>slickness of some of the keyboard sounds (along with Horvitz's
>straightforwardly lovely melodies) makes the edgy bits seem even
>creepier.
>
I think that one of Horvitz' great talents is as an arranger of electronic
sounds. It's a skill that a lot of keyboardists don't really understand,
especially with the great variety of sounds available on todays gear. I
think that one of the reasons Horvitz uses the "thin" dx-7 sounds so much
is that he can fit a lot of contrapuntal lines into an arrangement, and the
lines remain clear. If he were to use fatter sounds, they would compete
with each other. I personally like his sounds quite a bit, after spending
years programming the dx-7, I've come to really appreciate how subtle and
musical Horvitz' approach is. Plus, I think he writes some great tunes. I
saw him and Robin Holcomb do a duo show a few weeks ago, it was really
beautiful.

About Hancock's Sextant, yeah, it is a great record, but I wonder if its
"timelessness", as compared to Horvitz' records in an earlier message, is
simply that the synthesizer sounds Hancock and Patrick Gleeson used are
back in vogue, via the whole techno explosion and the renewed interest in
analog synthesis. Sometmes I think that the history we've personally
experienced seems dated, while the history previous to our experience.
Witness the current interest in almost all things '70's, while anything
from the '80's sounds dated. At this rate, in about 2008, there will be a
huge resurgence of interest in the downtown NYC scene. I hope all the
musicians can hold on until then...

________________________________________________________
Dave Trenkel : [e-mail]  : www.peak.org/~improv/

"...there will come a day when you won't have to use
gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in
your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper
type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em
together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em
together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire."
                                            -Sun Ra
________________________________________________________



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Henry Threadgill/Butch Morris
Date: 13 Jun 1998 10:45:21 -0400

Caught the show at the Texaco fest last evening, and thought I'd offer a
few comments.

Butch Morris' Holy Ghost--Made up of about 15 musicians, playing a wide
range of instruments. I neglected to pick up a program and didn't
recognize several of the players, but among those I did were Blood
Ulmer, Graham Haynes, Melvin Gibbs, Brandon Ross, JA Deane, JT Lewis and
Charles Burnham. I'm not overly familiar with Morris' conductions of the
last decade, but I haven't been completely convinced by what I've heard;
I remain unsure, though the show had its moments. I've no idea what
preparations go into these performances (perhaps someone on the list
with greater knowledge can elaborate), but to this listener it seemed
that the band was instructed to stay pretty much in a c. 1970 Miles
groove which Morris adjusted with gestures indicating diminuendos,
crescendos, staccato clusters, etc. I found it difficult to determine
what contribution Morris was making (aside from these obvious aspects)
and what the band was responsible for, not that it matters. When the
band locked into a groove it did so nicely, though in the back of my
mind I'm thinking, "Why not just listen to 'Black Beauty'?" While fairly
enjoyable, I wondered why the people who, properly, give Marsalis much
grief for reproducing 1962 Miles, don't level the same criticism at
someone imitating his work from a few years later. But, maybe each show
by this group differs from the last, and I just happened to catch it's
electric-Miles/fusion version.(There was one point when Gibbs began to
riff on a bass line that led me to briefly think the band was going to
launch into a version of Zappa's 'Little House I Used to Live In'(!)).
In fairness, I must report that the audience reaction was a good bit
more enthusiastic than mine.

Henry Threadgill's Society Situation Dance Band--Now, here's a whole
nuther kettle o' fish. I wasn't quite sure what to expect of this
incarnation, but it turns out that it's pure Threadgill expanded to a
17-18 piece group and it was extraordinary. The band included Josh
Roseman, Bob Stewart, John Stubblefield, Brandon Ross, JT Lewis, Tony
Cedras, Stomu Takeshi (if I'm remembering his name correctly--the
electric bassist who works with Melford a.o.), Leroy Jenkins, Jason
Hwang and Charles Burnham (what a violin section!); Threadgill
conducted. All five pieces cooked, the band working its way through HT's
typically gnarly and beautiful heads with little difficulty, providing
wonderful bases for solos. Outstanding work from Burnham, Jenkins (great
to hear him still playing so beautifully), the soprano player (name
needed!) and the second trombonist, who turned in blistering work on the
funkiest piece of the evening (a heavy-set white or Latino fellow--need
this name too!). The finale set up a feverish rhythm that cooked with a
tension and energy level that had the entire house standing. Having both
Stewart and Takeshi in the band provided a wonderful, rich bottom to
each piece. HT's conception here is so great, I couldn't help thinking
of other players I'd like to have in this band, to make it even
stronger. For example, Amina Claudine Myers came out to sing on two
pieces and while she made a valiant effort, I'm thinking, "Get Fontella
Bass or Jevetta Steele--or Asha Puthli!--in here and the roof would've
blown!". Minor carping. I understand this was their first US concert;
catch 'em wherever possible. Great stuff.

Love to hear the opinions of anyone else who attended--even if they're
directly opposite!

Brian Olewnick

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Henry Threadgill/Butch Morris
Date: 13 Jun 1998 10:45:21 -0400

Caught the show at the Texaco fest last evening, and thought I'd offer a
few comments.

Butch Morris' Holy Ghost--Made up of about 15 musicians, playing a wide
range of instruments. I neglected to pick up a program and didn't
recognize several of the players, but among those I did were Blood
Ulmer, Graham Haynes, Melvin Gibbs, Brandon Ross, JA Deane, JT Lewis and
Charles Burnham. I'm not overly familiar with Morris' conductions of the
last decade, but I haven't been completely convinced by what I've heard;
I remain unsure, though the show had its moments. I've no idea what
preparations go into these performances (perhaps someone on the list
with greater knowledge can elaborate), but to this listener it seemed
that the band was instructed to stay pretty much in a c. 1970 Miles
groove which Morris adjusted with gestures indicating diminuendos,
crescendos, staccato clusters, etc. I found it difficult to determine
what contribution Morris was making (aside from these obvious aspects)
and what the band was responsible for, not that it matters. When the
band locked into a groove it did so nicely, though in the back of my
mind I'm thinking, "Why not just listen to 'Black Beauty'?" While fairly
enjoyable, I wondered why the people who, properly, give Marsalis much
grief for reproducing 1962 Miles, don't level the same criticism at
someone imitating his work from a few years later. But, maybe each show
by this group differs from the last, and I just happened to catch it's
electric-Miles/fusion version.(There was one point when Gibbs began to
riff on a bass line that led me to briefly think the band was going to
launch into a version of Zappa's 'Little House I Used to Live In'(!)).
In fairness, I must report that the audience reaction was a good bit
more enthusiastic than mine.

Henry Threadgill's Society Situation Dance Band--Now, here's a whole
nuther kettle o' fish. I wasn't quite sure what to expect of this
incarnation, but it turns out that it's pure Threadgill expanded to a
17-18 piece group and it was extraordinary. The band included Josh
Roseman, Bob Stewart, John Stubblefield, Brandon Ross, JT Lewis, Tony
Cedras, Stomu Takeshi (if I'm remembering his name correctly--the
electric bassist who works with Melford a.o.), Leroy Jenkins, Jason
Hwang and Charles Burnham (what a violin section!); Threadgill
conducted. All five pieces cooked, the band working its way through HT's
typically gnarly and beautiful heads with little difficulty, providing
wonderful bases for solos. Outstanding work from Burnham, Jenkins (great
to hear him still playing so beautifully), the soprano player (name
needed!) and the second trombonist, who turned in blistering work on the
funkiest piece of the evening (a heavy-set white or Latino fellow--need
this name too!). The finale set up a feverish rhythm that cooked with a
tension and energy level that had the entire house standing. Having both
Stewart and Takeshi in the band provided a wonderful, rich bottom to
each piece. HT's conception here is so great, I couldn't help thinking
of other players I'd like to have in this band, to make it even
stronger. For example, Amina Claudine Myers came out to sing on two
pieces and while she made a valiant effort, I'm thinking, "Get Fontella
Bass or Jevetta Steele--or Asha Puthli!--in here and the roof would've
blown!". Minor carping. I understand this was their first US concert;
catch 'em wherever possible. Great stuff.

Love to hear the opinions of anyone else who attended--even if they're
directly opposite!

Brian Olewnick

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  Henry Threadgill/Butch Morris
Date: 14 Jun 1998 02:48:58 EDT


In a message dated 6/14/98 2:25:20 AM, [e-mail] wrote:

<<Butch Morris' Holy Ghost--Made up of about 15 musicians, playing a wide
range of instruments. I neglected to pick up a program and didn't
recognize several of the players, but among those I did were Blood
Ulmer, Graham Haynes, Melvin Gibbs, Brandon Ross, JA Deane, JT Lewis and
Charles Burnham. I'm not overly familiar with Morris' conductions of the
last decade, but I haven't been completely convinced by what I've heard;
I remain unsure, though the show had its moments. I've no idea what
preparations go into these performances (perhaps someone on the list
with greater knowledge can elaborate), but to this listener it seemed
that the band was instructed to stay pretty much in a c. 1970 Miles
groove which Morris adjusted with gestures indicating diminuendos,
crescendos, staccato clusters, etc. I found it difficult to determine
what contribution Morris was making (aside from these obvious aspects)
and what the band was responsible for, not that it matters. When the
band locked into a groove it did so nicely, though in the back of my
mind I'm thinking, "Why not just listen to 'Black Beauty'?" While fairly
enjoyable, I wondered why the people who, properly, give Marsalis much
grief for reproducing 1962 Miles, don't level the same criticism at
someone imitating his work from a few years later. But, maybe each show
by this group differs from the last, and I just happened to catch it's
electric-Miles/fusion version.(There was one point when Gibbs began to
riff on a bass line that led me to briefly think the band was going to
launch into a version of Zappa's 'Little House I Used to Live In'(!)).
In fairness, I must report that the audience reaction was a good bit
more enthusiastic than mine.>>

I didn't go see this show, mainly because the list of musicians didn't
especially appeal to me. What I would like to add is that while I too wasn't
previously  completely convinced by Morris' conduction work, his new record on
For 4 Ears, Conduction #70: Tit For Tat, is superb. The musicians include the
ubiquitous Jim O'Rourke, the guys from Voice Crack, Stephan Wittwer, Fredy
Studer, and Gunter Muller. It's Morris' most prominent use of electronics yet,
and it achieves a flow lacking from a lot of his other records.

Morris also has a brand-new double CD on FMP called Berlin Skyscraper that I
haven't heard yet.

Jon

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    William York <[e-mail]>
Subject: Downtown stuff
Date: 13 Jun 1998 03:44:21 -0400 (EDT)

Thanks for the comments regarding my questions about The President and all
that.  I should say that the I like the CD better than I first thought but
I'm glad to know this isn't considered a major work.

Also, I may have made it sound like I was referring to the "scene" in the
past tense.  Well maybe the scene is different but most of those folks
seem to be developing their own ideas better as the scene has separated or
maybe its just them getting a clearer perspective on their ideas.  Tim
Berne, Arto, Zorn, Ribot, E#, etc. seem to be doing just as well or better
than they were doing.

Anyway I wanted to mention the CD _the alt.coffee tapes_ on Katahdin,
maybe some of you all have been there.  What a 90s thing this is -coffee,
the internet, the cover, plus a change in the music from the faster paced
stuff of the 80s to a more slowly developing and almost minimal approach
at times, plus cheap electronics, unusual instruments (well, accordion at
least), European folk influences, etc.  This may be looked back in the
same way as the 80s stuff but its pretty good- one track has Chris Speed
and Drew Gress, mostly John Hollenbeck and Matt Moran who I'm less
familiar w/.

Sorry for rambling, William York



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Vadim Marmer <[e-mail]>
Subject: mistake on masada-8
Date: 14 Jun 1998 11:22:31 +0300 (WET)

it`s not something really serious, but two days ago i received my copy of
Masada-8 (Het) ,but the hebrew letter that printed in the circle on the
disc is not "Het", it`s "Zayin". did anybody else see it also?


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Kronos, again/Africa
Date: 12 Jun 1998 22:10:17 EDT

In a message dated 98-06-12 01:35:10 EDT, you write:

<< I think the pop-oriented Tarika is the one Henry Kaiser now refers to as
"Tarika
 Shammy." >>

eh eh...a witty one, that Kaiser!

Dave

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rich Williams <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Another Downtown Question
Date: 11 Jun 1998 17:52:43 -0500

Douglas Tapia wrote:

> I don't think it was commercial appeal that Bill or Wayne were after
> either.  I think they are just gear heads who were playing with some new
> toys and their judgment was perhaps a little clouded by the newness of it
> all.

    The live gigs I saw of The President bear this out. Same goes for The
Golden Palomino's. That first album, with the DX Drums, and all the
overdubbing realy pales in comparison to the live shows they put on.
    But the " Why cant I make a good album" award has got to go to Peter
Blegvad, who despite being an excellent songwriter, singer, and stage
performer, cant seem to translate what he does to disc.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rich Williams <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Another Downtown Question
Date: 11 Jun 1998 17:52:43 -0500

Douglas Tapia wrote:

> I don't think it was commercial appeal that Bill or Wayne were after
> either.  I think they are just gear heads who were playing with some new
> toys and their judgment was perhaps a little clouded by the newness of it
> all.

    The live gigs I saw of The President bear this out. Same goes for The
Golden Palomino's. That first album, with the DX Drums, and all the
overdubbing realy pales in comparison to the live shows they put on.
    But the " Why cant I make a good album" award has got to go to Peter
Blegvad, who despite being an excellent songwriter, singer, and stage
performer, cant seem to translate what he does to disc.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matt Moffett <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Raymond Scott
Date: 14 Jun 1998 10:47:13 -0400

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> I just got the Beau Hunks doing a Raymond Scott tribute, and although the
> production is much better than the thin stuff of the originals (I have the
> Columbia package too) and it's very good, I was wondering
>
> does anyone know of any covers of Raymond Scott tunes that rock?  I'm looking
> for somebody like the NRG Ensemble to cover some of his tunes or something I
> guess.  Anything like that?
>
> Thanks,
> Peter
Jim Thirwell of Foetus has a big band oriented project called Steroid
Maximus.  They cover "Powerhouse", and I think a few other Raymond Scott
tunes.  The drummer and guitarist from Voivod play on the album, so it
has a little heavier feel than a traditional big band sound.  Very
cartoony with a few samples thrown in here and there.  A real fun album
as I remember.
  I believe the album is long out of print (maybe 5 years old) but a
Borders or CDNOW might be able to track one for you, or you can always
post to alt.music.foetus (newsgroup for all Thirwell related projects).

Hope this helps...

Matt


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Henry Threadgill/Butch Morris
Date: 13 Jun 1998 10:45:21 -0400

Caught the show at the Texaco fest last evening, and thought I'd offer a
few comments.

Butch Morris' Holy Ghost--Made up of about 15 musicians, playing a wide
range of instruments. I neglected to pick up a program and didn't
recognize several of the players, but among those I did were Blood
Ulmer, Graham Haynes, Melvin Gibbs, Brandon Ross, JA Deane, JT Lewis and
Charles Burnham. I'm not overly familiar with Morris' conductions of the
last decade, but I haven't been completely convinced by what I've heard;
I remain unsure, though the show had its moments. I've no idea what
preparations go into these performances (perhaps someone on the list
with greater knowledge can elaborate), but to this listener it seemed
that the band was instructed to stay pretty much in a c. 1970 Miles
groove which Morris adjusted with gestures indicating diminuendos,
crescendos, staccato clusters, etc. I found it difficult to determine
what contribution Morris was making (aside from these obvious aspects)
and what the band was responsible for, not that it matters. When the
band locked into a groove it did so nicely, though in the back of my
mind I'm thinking, "Why not just listen to 'Black Beauty'?" While fairly
enjoyable, I wondered why the people who, properly, give Marsalis much
grief for reproducing 1962 Miles, don't level the same criticism at
someone imitating his work from a few years later. But, maybe each show
by this group differs from the last, and I just happened to catch it's
electric-Miles/fusion version.(There was one point when Gibbs began to
riff on a bass line that led me to briefly think the band was going to
launch into a version of Zappa's 'Little House I Used to Live In'(!)).
In fairness, I must report that the audience reaction was a good bit
more enthusiastic than mine.

Henry Threadgill's Society Situation Dance Band--Now, here's a whole
nuther kettle o' fish. I wasn't quite sure what to expect of this
incarnation, but it turns out that it's pure Threadgill expanded to a
17-18 piece group and it was extraordinary. The band included Josh
Roseman, Bob Stewart, John Stubblefield, Brandon Ross, JT Lewis, Tony
Cedras, Stomu Takeshi (if I'm remembering his name correctly--the
electric bassist who works with Melford a.o.), Leroy Jenkins, Jason
Hwang and Charles Burnham (what a violin section!); Threadgill
conducted. All five pieces cooked, the band working its way through HT's
typically gnarly and beautiful heads with little difficulty, providing
wonderful bases for solos. Outstanding work from Burnham, Jenkins (great
to hear him still playing so beautifully), the soprano player (name
needed!) and the second trombonist, who turned in blistering work on the
funkiest piece of the evening (a heavy-set white or Latino fellow--need
this name too!). The finale set up a feverish rhythm that cooked with a
tension and energy level that had the entire house standing. Having both
Stewart and Takeshi in the band provided a wonderful, rich bottom to
each piece. HT's conception here is so great, I couldn't help thinking
of other players I'd like to have in this band, to make it even
stronger. For example, Amina Claudine Myers came out to sing on two
pieces and while she made a valiant effort, I'm thinking, "Get Fontella
Bass or Jevetta Steele--or Asha Puthli!--in here and the roof would've
blown!". Minor carping. I understand this was their first US concert;
catch 'em wherever possible. Great stuff.

Love to hear the opinions of anyone else who attended--even if they're
directly opposite!

Brian Olewnick

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  Henry Threadgill/Butch Morris
Date: 14 Jun 1998 02:48:58 EDT


In a message dated 6/14/98 2:25:20 AM, [e-mail] wrote:

<<Butch Morris' Holy Ghost--Made up of about 15 musicians, playing a wide
range of instruments. I neglected to pick up a program and didn't
recognize several of the players, but among those I did were Blood
Ulmer, Graham Haynes, Melvin Gibbs, Brandon Ross, JA Deane, JT Lewis and
Charles Burnham. I'm not overly familiar with Morris' conductions of the
last decade, but I haven't been completely convinced by what I've heard;
I remain unsure, though the show had its moments. I've no idea what
preparations go into these performances (perhaps someone on the list
with greater knowledge can elaborate), but to this listener it seemed
that the band was instructed to stay pretty much in a c. 1970 Miles
groove which Morris adjusted with gestures indicating diminuendos,
crescendos, staccato clusters, etc. I found it difficult to determine
what contribution Morris was making (aside from these obvious aspects)
and what the band was responsible for, not that it matters. When the
band locked into a groove it did so nicely, though in the back of my
mind I'm thinking, "Why not just listen to 'Black Beauty'?" While fairly
enjoyable, I wondered why the people who, properly, give Marsalis much
grief for reproducing 1962 Miles, don't level the same criticism at
someone imitating his work from a few years later. But, maybe each show
by this group differs from the last, and I just happened to catch it's
electric-Miles/fusion version.(There was one point when Gibbs began to
riff on a bass line that led me to briefly think the band was going to
launch into a version of Zappa's 'Little House I Used to Live In'(!)).
In fairness, I must report that the audience reaction was a good bit
more enthusiastic than mine.>>

I didn't go see this show, mainly because the list of musicians didn't
especially appeal to me. What I would like to add is that while I too wasn't
previously  completely convinced by Morris' conduction work, his new record on
For 4 Ears, Conduction #70: Tit For Tat, is superb. The musicians include the
ubiquitous Jim O'Rourke, the guys from Voice Crack, Stephan Wittwer, Fredy
Studer, and Gunter Muller. It's Morris' most prominent use of electronics yet,
and it achieves a flow lacking from a lot of his other records.

Morris also has a brand-new double CD on FMP called Berlin Skyscraper that I
haven't heard yet.

Jon

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Phantamos
Date: 15 Jun 1998 08:10:51 +0200


[Fantomas]

> yes, and I think they're doing some shows in NY and SF. If they record, it
> will be some time next year, when the next Mr Bungle record has been taken
> care of.

Where does that last piece of information come from? I know Fantomas are
about to play a show at Slim's, SF, on June 18, and then 5 shows in NYC, but
I haven't heard anything about a new Mr. Bungle album...

Frankco.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Another Downtown Question
Date: 15 Jun 1998 02:25:37 -0400

Dave Trenkel wrote:

> About Hancock's Sextant, yeah, it is a great record, but I wonder if its
> "timelessness", as compared to Horvitz' records in an earlier message, is
> simply that the synthesizer sounds Hancock and Patrick Gleeson used are
> back in vogue, via the whole techno explosion and the renewed interest in
> analog synthesis.

I can see your point here, but must jump in with a rebuttal: I discovered
"Sextant" and the other two Hancock Sextet discs not when they were issued, and
not now when they've been reissued, but about ten years ago when they were
included as part of a MASSIVE donation of sealed jazz LPs received by the radio
station at which I worked in college.  There was no special vogue for those
analogue synth sounds that I was aware of at the time, nor was I at all interested
in the later Headhunters or Rockit band material (at that time, anyway)... all I
knew was that these albums snapped my head around in a really new way and I still
feel the same about them.

That's just me, and I'm not average or normal but a music junkie, but still I'd
like to think that this particular band's continued appeal is more than just an
interest in a synth patch...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Phantamos
Date: 15 Jun 1998 16:32:25 +1000

> Where does that last piece of information come from? I know Fantomas are
> about to play a show at Slim's, SF, on June 18, and then 5 shows in NYC,
but
> I haven't heard anything about a new Mr. Bungle album...

Trey was interviewed a number of times here in Australia about what
Bungle's up to, and he said there were plans for a release very soon.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Julien Quint <[e-mail]>
Subject: New Boredoms
Date: 15 Jun 1998 11:15:08 +0200

Hi everyone,

Back from a week in Paris where a) I met our beloved list owner Mike Rizzi and
b) I found the latest Boredoms EP "Super Go". It looks like the new album is
also out but didn't manage to find it (although rumours were circulating that
someone had found a copy at the Virgin Megastore of the Champs Elyse'es)

The EP is only 2 songs, "Super Go" is 17+ long and sounds like an evolution of
the Super Roots 6 stuff... very psychedelic, very different from their
previous "normal" output; the second song "Super Punk" is about 4 minutes long
and is more of an ambien electronic piece. This new EP is really surprising
and I'd have to listen to it a few more times to get a real opinion of it.

So who has heard the new stuff (as I understand there's also another promo EP
called "Super Old" that you could get by sending the Super Roots obis) and can
comment on it?

bye, julien


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: philz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Hancock's Sextant
Date: 15 Jun 1998 08:46:35 -0400

>Steve Smith wrote:

>I agree with what Chris wrote about it.  Its two predecessors, "Mwandishi" and
>"Crossing," feature  the same band (minus the synth programmer and extra
>percussionist who came on board with "Sextant") and are also worth
>checking out by
>those into the deeper mysteries of UR-fusion, back when things were
>actually being
>"fused".....  The core of that band was a first rate jazz sextet, which
>may have a
>lot to do with why this experimental stuff still sounds good now...
>Hancock, Bennie
>Maupin, Eddie Henderson, Julian Priester, Buster Williams and Billy Hart.
>Both of
>the earlier albums are available in an inexpensive two-CD set of the complete
>Hancock recordings for Warner Brothers (which also includes an earlier
>album's worth
>of material from "Fat Albert" by a different Hancock band).


There are also solo records by Bennie Maupin and Eddie Henderson from that
same era that explore the whole "Sextant" sound... don't recall the titles
off-hand, but it's worth exploring their discographies for more material in
that vein.

philz

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Artur Nowak" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Dave Douglas' "Charm of Night Sky" is out
Date: 15 Jun 1998 19:08:03 +0200

The german Winter & Winter label (JMT successor) is very active
realising lot of new records, one of the latest is Dave Douglas' "Charm
of Night Sky", very gentle, calm and tender music, mostly duos (Dave and
Guy) and waltzes. Highly recommended for all Dave fans, but also those
people who liked Frisells "Have a Litte Faith" - Guy Klucevsek's
accordion recalls the lyrical parts of this record. Please let me quote
Mr Zorn about Dave's music: "Dave has been touched by many kinds of
music, but what comes out is solely his - coherent, tasteful and never
self-indulgent. This music has a different story to tell each listener,
and yet always retains an integrity, an honesty and a clarity of
vision".

Here are the details:

- "CHARM OF THE NIGHT SKY"
CD 'C56:07-13' WINTER & WINTER (910 015-2[G])     1998.
1. Charms of the Night Sky. (7:32)/ 2. Bal Masque. (3:48)/ 3. Sea
Change. (5:18)/ 4. Facing West. (4:23)/ 5. Dance in Thy Soul (for
Charlie Haden). (8:07)/ 6. Little One. (4:11)/ Mug Shots. (7 - 9): 7.
Wild Coffe. (1:14)/ 8. The Girl with the rose hips. (2:51)/ 9.
Decafinata. (2:27)/ 10. Poveri Fiori. (2:41)/ 11. Odyssey. (6:28)/ 12.
Twisted. (3:37)/ 13. Codetta. (2:53).
Dave DOUGLAS: trumpet./ Greg COHEN: acoustic bass./ Mark FELDMAN:
violin./ Guy KLUCEVSEK: accordion.
All compositions by Dave DOUGLAS (Noenmity Music) except 6 by Herbie
HANCOCK (Hancock Music Co.), 7 - 9 by Guy KLUCEVSEK (Guy Klucevsek
Music, BMI) and 10 by Francesco CILEA (Casa Mus. Sonzogono). Analog
recording September 18 & 19, 1997 at Avatar Studios, NYC, USA. Digitally
mixed November 30, 1997 at Avatar Studios, NYC, USA. Recording and
mixing engineer: Joe FERLA. 24 bit digital mastering with Super Bit
Mapping March 6, 1998 at Bauer Studios, Ludwigsburg, Germany. Mastering
engineer: Adrian von RIPKA. CD-SmartPac 19532321.1-53:Herzog+Index.
Photography: Robert LEWIS. Portrait of Dave: Maarit KYTOHARJU.
design&artstephenbyram. Produced by Dave DOUGLAS, Stefan WINTER and Joe
FERLA. [e-mail]. Made in Germany. A production of
Winter & Winter. Dave says thanks to Guy, Greg and Mark; Joe FERLA,
Nabila SCHWAB and Maarit KYTOHARJU. Artist Edition. [100%]

Regards


______________________________________________________________________
     Artur Nowak ([e-mail]) (spam filter in
use)
     www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/default.htm - Discography of Bill Frisell



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Artur Nowak" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Horvitz, Zorn, E#, (drummer) quartet
Date: 15 Jun 1998 19:08:13 +0200

> Anybody know what label this disc will be released on and
> when? And who is the drummer, Previte or Wollesen?

Yes, it's out. I bought this CD last Friday in Berlin.

John ZORN + Wayne HORVITZ + Elliot SHARP + Bobby PREVITE
- "Downtown Lullaby"
CD 47:37, 7 tracks, label DEPTH OF FIELD (DOF-02)

"This record was played live"


______________________________________________________________________
     Artur Nowak ([e-mail]) (spam filter in
use)
     www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/default.htm - Discography of Bill Frisell



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Uncle Meat <[e-mail]>
Subject: Audio on the net
Date: 15 Jun 1998 18:29:55 -0400

Because my budget is limited, and that sometimes a good review on this
list or elsewhere is not enough, i was wondering if you knew some good
sites on the net where you could hear some audio excerpts of the
musicians and composers that are mentionned here.  Apart from the
obvious (Tzadik), the only one i feel is worth mentioning is tunes.com.
Maybe the Wire ought to open an internet music store.

    Does anyone knows of a good site for music excepts?

                                                            Uncle Meat


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Audio on the net
Date: 15 Jun 1998 18:52:08 -0400

Uncle Meat wrote:
>
> Because my budget is limited, and that sometimes a good review on this
> list or elsewhere is not enough, i was wondering if you knew some good
> sites on the net where you could hear some audio excerpts of the
> musicians and composers that are mentionned here.  Apart from the
> obvious (Tzadik), the only one i feel is worth mentioning is tunes.com.
> Maybe the Wire ought to open an internet music store.
>
>     Does anyone knows of a good site for music excepts?
>
>                                                             Uncle Meat
>
> -

Z-lister Herb Levy posted it here a while back and I highly recommend it
also:

http://www.antennaradio.com

There're about 7 shows which change weekly, covering avant-jazz, new
classical, world, punk, Japanese, etc. A very fine site. Herb's
selection this week, for example includes Lois V. Vierk's 'Simoom' and
an Alvin Lucier cello piece (I forget the name). The jazz area has
tracks from 1988 including, Lazro, Threadgill, etc.

Check it out.

Brian Olewnick

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Seth Gordon <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Audio on the net
Date: 15 Jun 1998 19:32:32 PDT

Justin Broadrick's own site has feeds of tracks from all of his new
projects in gloriously crappy RealAudio sound.

http://www.avanlanche.demon.co.uk/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Another Downtown Question
Date: 15 Jun 1998 17:48:42 -0700


On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:52:43 -0500  Rich Williams wrote:
>
> Douglas Tapia wrote:
>
> > I don't think it was commercial appeal that Bill or Wayne were after
> > either.  I think they are just gear heads who were playing with some new
> > toys and their judgment was perhaps a little clouded by the newness of it
> > all.
>
>     The live gigs I saw of The President bear this out. Same goes for The
> Golden Palomino's. That first album, with the DX Drums, and all the
> overdubbing realy pales in comparison to the live shows they put on.

Might be pale in comparison of the live shows, but for mere mortals like me
(who were not lucky to be there at the right time) that's the only thing that
I can put under my teeth. But you might assume from that that I am ready to
settle with anything (I don't have the choice, right)? But I am also conscious
that shows can be overated, specially when looking at them 15 years after
(with an handkerchief in one hand). I mean, the first Golden Palominos is
darn good. If the shows were really largely superior to the record (as few
people have implied), then I might have missed the best musical experience of
my whole life. Am I ready for a meaningless life? No, hence I will refuse
to acknowledge that the shows were better than the records :-).

Anyway, I find both the President and the first Golden Palominos amazing
records. I saw the President and I can say that the shows and the records
are very similar (which should not surprise anybody based on the "chamber
music" aspect of the President's music).

>     But the " Why cant I make a good album" award has got to go to Peter
> Blegvad, who despite being an excellent songwriter, singer, and stage
> performer, cant seem to translate what he does to disc.

Even KEW RHONE?

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mans Engman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: While we're on the subject of Int'l music...
Date: 16 Jun 1998 02:49:40 +0200

"Silent Watcher" <[e-mail]> writes:

> I just obtained a ney (Egyptian flute) and a rhaita (Moroccan double
> reed instrument) and need some help.  Basically, with the Ney at least,
> I can't figure out how to play it.

The ney is an end-blown flute and the technique should be similar to
playing panpipes. I don't remember the exact design of the ney but
I'd first try blowing in the end with the least number of holes. :)
Good luck,

/mans

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Downtown stuff
Date: 15 Jun 1998 17:56:49 -0700


On Sat, 13 Jun 1998 03:44:21 -0400 (EDT)  William York wrote:
>
> Thanks for the comments regarding my questions about The President and all
> that.  I should say that the I like the CD better than I first thought but
> I'm glad to know this isn't considered a major work.
            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

You are saying that as a conclusion on which the zorn list agreed. I doubt
that such agreement ever happened.

There were basically two camps: those who love the President's record, and
those who could live without.

    Patrice.

> Also, I may have made it sound like I was referring to the "scene" in the
> past tense.  Well maybe the scene is different but most of those folks
> seem to be developing their own ideas better as the scene has separated or
> maybe its just them getting a clearer perspective on their ideas.  Tim
> Berne, Arto, Zorn, Ribot, E#, etc. seem to be doing just as well or better
> than they were doing.

Be very careful with these "scenes". You have to realize that it is a
practical expression for terse communication. For example, you see a review
and the writer uses the expression "NY downtown scene". This should be a
clue that the music has little to do with Louis Armstrong or Johnny Cash.
But I doubt that you could infer more than that.

The "scene" (like all scenes and movements) has never been an homogenous
one. The artists who used to be moving in different artistic directions
still do.

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rich Williams <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Another Downtown Question
Date: 15 Jun 1998 20:58:39 -0500

Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> On Thu, 11 Jun 1998 17:52:43 -0500  Rich Williams wrote:

> >       The live gigs I saw of The President bear this out. Same goes for The
> > Golden Palomino's. That first album, with the DX Drums, and all the
> > overdubbing realy pales in comparison to the live shows they put on.
>
> Might be pale in comparison of the live shows, but for mere mortals like me
> (who were not lucky to be there at the right time) that's the only thing that
> I can put under my teeth. But you might assume from that that I am ready to
> settle with anything (I don't have the choice, right)? But I am also conscious
> that shows can be overated, specially when looking at them 15 years after
> (with an handkerchief in one hand). I mean, the first Golden Palominos is
> darn good. If the shows were really largely superior to the record (as few
> people have implied), then I might have missed the best musical experience of
> my whole life. Am I ready for a meaningless life? No, hence I will refuse
> to acknowledge that the shows were better than the records :-).

    I feel the same way about Coltrane. :-)
    As far as the Palomino's; The live band was unrelentingly funky, in a
way that seemed to fuse P-Funk and Prime Time. The record seemed to
downplay that aspect. The fact that Tacuma  only appears on 2 tracks has
a lot to do with that I imagine. Also,  Zorn did some real nice
straight-ahead sax parts with the live group, but on the LP he seems to
have been limited to the Duck-call-in-the-bowl of water stuff.
    Rose colored glasses?  I dont think so, at least I hope not.  But I
guess if the LP had come first, I'd have raved about how much they
improved upon the album. :-)


> >       But the " Why cant I make a good album" award has got to go to Peter
> > Blegvad, who despite being an excellent songwriter, singer, and stage
> > performer, cant seem to translate what he does to disc.
>
> Even KEW RHONE?

EXCEPT for Kew Rhone
and Just Woke Up is certainly a step in the right direction.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Marc Edwards and E#
Date: 16 Jun 1998 00:07:45 EDT

In a message dated 5/6/98 12:38:13 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

> Tom Pratt wrote:
>
>  > Marc Edwards is a drummer, eh??? Sounds like a reincarnation of Percy
>  > Jones' Scanners with E# and Previte from back in the day. I love hearing
>  > e# in a rock trio format - I hope they record something!
>
>  Marc Edwards is indeed a drummer, but I don't know how forthcoming the rock
> trio
>  content might be, unless Marc's got a side I've not heard.  The records
from
>  which I know his playing are Cecil Taylor's "Dark to Themselves" and David
S.
>
>  Ware's "Flight of i" ......... That, in a sense, makes it all the more
>  interesting to me, though I agree E# can be mighty compelling in a
straight-
> ish situation.

Okay, if this gig is still happening, then I urge everyone who can make it to
do so.  Percy Jones is one of the most inventive, not to mention scariest,
bassists Ive ever heard.   I dont think he's played with E# in 10 years, and
this gig should be a real treat.

Jody McAllister

PS- I dont think Previte played in Scanners...

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jack Torrance" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Phantamos
Date: 15 Jun 1998 21:12:16 PDT


>Received: (from flamerik)
>I know Fantomas are
>about to play a show at Slim's, SF, on June 18, and then 5 shows in
>NYC

What are the dates and locations of these NY shows?

Jack Torrance

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Peril "Multiverse" CD FS ...
Date: 16 Jun 1998 02:54:16 -0400

Hello all,

Pardon the intrusion ...

I have a copy of Peril's (Tony Buck, Otomo Yoshihide etc.)
now o/p "Multiverse" CD (Sound Factory - Hong Kong 1993) for
sale for $10 US ppd (within NA), if anyone is interested.

Email if you'd like it.


-Patrick
[e-mail]



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Henry Threadgill/Butch Morris
Date: 16 Jun 1998 02:57:04 -0400

Brian Olewnick wrote:

> Butch Morris' Holy Ghost--Made up of about 15 musicians, playing a wide
> range of instruments. I neglected to pick up a program and didn't
> recognize several of the players, but among those I did were Blood
> Ulmer, Graham Haynes, Melvin Gibbs, Brandon Ross, JA Deane, JT Lewis and
> Charles Burnham.

All of those names are accurate.  The program was largely inaccurate so you
didn't miss much.  I've seen the names they printed and several are
definitely incorrect.

> I'm not overly familiar with Morris' conductions of the
> last decade, but I haven't been completely convinced by what I've heard;
> I remain unsure, though the show had its moments.

I've liked pretty much all of the conductions I've heard to some extent.
The box set on New World is cost prohibitive to most, but there's some
fantastic music in there.  The single disc "Homeing" is also a singular
statement of incredible lyricism and beauty, though I don't know that this
is part of the official "conductions" series.

> I've no idea what
> preparations go into these performances

The booklet that accompanies the box set goes into great detail, including a
description of each hand signal and what it is supposed to produce.

I fully understand everything you said in your reponse to the Morris
performance, but I have to say that I felt that the first piece was a
complete success... to me it sounded like the early '70s Miles band as
orchestrated by Luciano Berio... long static washes of dissonance with the
funk band bursting out, seemingly randomly (as in "Sinfonia"), only to
recede until its next outburst.  (Those who know Berio better than I do may
chafe, but that's my gut reaction.)  The second piece wasn't going anywhere,
and I assume that that's why Butch cut it off so abruptly and the alto
player left the stage as quickly as he could manage.  Still, it was a great
start to the evening, and Ulmer's hamming it up all night was most
enjoyable.

> But, maybe each show
> by this group differs from the last, and I just happened to catch it's
> electric-Miles/fusion version.

Actually, I don't think Holy Ghost is a group (someone corect me if I'm
wrong).  Most of the conductions in the New World box set have been given
titles after the fact, and perhaps "Holy Ghost" was the title of this
conduction.

> Henry Threadgill's Society Situation Dance Band--Now, here's a whole
> nuther kettle o' fish.

Agreed.  I enjoyed telling the guy now managing Columbia's A&R department
(no, not Branford) how incredibly cool Threadgill's set was, given that
they'd dropped Henry just before he was to bring them this project with no
less than Aster Aweke as vocalist.  Henry writes the most interesting bass
line progressions I've ever heard, and in this band there was a lot of
worthy content to be played over it.  The violin section was iconoclast
central, but sounded fine together.  Russell Gunn, the trumpeter hiding in
the back, was another fine soloist, but John Stubblefield was the MAN,
blasting away solos of depth, strength and melodicism all night.  Booker T.,
if that's indeed who the second tenor soloist was (as in the program guide,
chock full of misprints), was largely disappointing as a soloist, full of
gesture and squawk but no music at all.  (Was it really Booker T.?  All
night I was convinced that it was Ken McIntyre fallen upon a drought of
inspiration.)  Violinist Charles Burnham, on the other hand, was also a
wickedly impressive soloist.  Leroy Jenkins is always a pleasure.

For me this was without a doubt the artistic high point of the entire
festival.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joe Germuska <[e-mail]>
Subject: Net Audio
Date: 16 Jun 1998 09:38:42 -0500

>>     Does anyone knows of a good site for music excepts?

shameless self-promotion especially because it's not really what you were
looking for, but WNUR is now "broadcasting" via RealAudio.  We program
"jazz" every morning from 5 am - 12:30 pm Central time (GMT -500 right
now).  More complete details can be found on our website
<http://www.wnur.org/>

More shameless and more self-ish: I DJ "Continental Drift" ("world" music)
on Mondays 12:30 - 2 and "Jazz" on Thursdays from 10 - 12:30.  Sorry, no
net connection in On-air control, so you still have to phone in your
requests :-)

So you don't get to pick what you hear, but perhaps still you'll hear
something that excites you...

Joe
--
* Joe Germuska    {[e-mail]} |    Learning Technologies Group
<http://www.nwu.edu/people/j-germuska> |      Northwestern University

"One thing I've learned about time...
                              ...It moves very slowly."  --LaMonte Young

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Paul Audino <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Net Audio
Date: 16 Jun 1998 11:12:37 -0500 (CDT)


On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Joe Germuska wrote:

> >>     Does anyone knows of a good site for music excepts?
>
> shameless self-promotion especially because it's not really what you were
> looking for, but WNUR is now "broadcasting" via RealAudio.  We program
> "jazz" every morning from 5 am - 12:30 pm Central time (GMT -500 right
> now).  More complete details can be found on our website
> <http://www.wnur.org/>
>
> More shameless and more self-ish: I DJ "Continental Drift" ("world" music)
> on Mondays 12:30 - 2 and "Jazz" on Thursdays from 10 - 12:30.  Sorry, no
> net connection in On-air control, so you still have to phone in your
> requests :-)

As a fellow WNUR DJ I'll hop on the shameless self-promotion train with
Joe.  My show is currently on from 5AM-7:30AM CST on Wednesday mornings.
I have a soft spot for the New York downtown scene, and artists such as
Zorn and Laswell frequently appear on my playlists.  If you ever happen to
be up at these insanely early hours, give a listen and let me know what
you think.

Thanks,

Paul
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Henry Threadgill/Butch Morris
Date: 16 Jun 1998 12:52:12 EDT

In a message dated 98-06-16 03:28:38 EDT, you write:

<< I've liked pretty much all of the conductions I've heard to some extent.
 The box set on New World is cost prohibitive to most, but there's some
 fantastic music in there.  The single disc "Homeing" is also a singular
 statement of incredible lyricism and beauty, though I don't know that this
 is part of the official "conductions" series. >>

You are correct- the booklet accompanying the _Testement_ box does not list
_Homeing_ as a conduction.  It is interesting to note the number of
conductions  documented up to that point- 50 of them as of March 5, 1995.  In
this case, the box set itself represents less than half of these conductions
as a whole.  One wonders how many of these suffered an early demise due to the
musicians "not clicking" on that day.

=dgasque=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Henry Threadgill/Butch Morris
Date: 16 Jun 1998 10:00:42 -0700


On Tue, 16 Jun 1998 12:52:12 EDT  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> In a message dated 98-06-16 03:28:38 EDT, you write:
>
> << I've liked pretty much all of the conductions I've heard to some extent.
>  The box set on New World is cost prohibitive to most, but there's some
>  fantastic music in there.  The single disc "Homeing" is also a singular
>  statement of incredible lyricism and beauty, though I don't know that this
>  is part of the official "conductions" series. >>
>
> You are correct- the booklet accompanying the _Testement_ box does not list
> _Homeing_ as a conduction.  It is interesting to note the number of
> conductions  documented up to that point- 50 of them as of March 5, 1995.  In
> this case, the box set itself represents less than half of these conductions
> as a whole.  One wonders how many of these suffered an early demise due to the
> musicians "not clicking" on that day.
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Or Derek Bailey putting his guitar back in its box and leaving after 10 mn :-).

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Henry Threadgill/Butch Morris
Date: 16 Jun 1998 10:54:21 -0700

At 02:57 AM 6/16/98 -0400, Steve Smith wrote:...

By the way, Reuters ran a story on Threadgill despite the lack of a label
for his work:

http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/entertainment/story.html?s=z/reuters/98
0616/entertainment/stories/review_musichenry_1.html


Jeff Spirer
B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/
Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html
Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Chris Genzel)
Subject: Re: Bennie Maupin / Eddie Henderson
Date: 16 Jun 1998 20:03:05 +0200


> There are also solo records by Bennie Maupin and Eddie Henderson from that
> same era that explore the whole "Sextant" sound... don't recall the titles
> off-hand, but it's worth exploring their discographies for more material in
> that vein.

 Sadly, none of the following albums have been reissued on CD:

 Bennie Maupin has 3 albums as a leader, one (the first) is in the sextant
 vein, the other two are in the Headhunters vein.

  1974 - The Jewel In The Lotus
    with Herbie Hancock, Billy Hart, Buster Williams, Bill Summers, ...
  1976 - Slow Traffic To The Right
    with Blackbyrd McKnight, ...
  1978 - Moonscapes
    with ???

 Eddie Henderson released a whole lot of albums in the 1970's (which were all,
 AFAIK, quite funky), remained quiet in the 1980's and started to release
 hard bop records in the 1990's:

  1973 - Realization
    with Herbie Hancock, Bennie Maupin, Billy Hart, Buster Williams, Patrick
         Gleeson, Lenny White ...
  1974 - Inside Out
    with Hancock, Maupin, Williams, Hart, Gleeson, Bill Summers, ...
  1975 - Sunburst
    with Hart, Maupin, Julian Priester, Williams, Harvey Mason, Alphonso
         Johnson, Bobby Hutcherson, George Duke, ...
  1976 - Heritage
    with Priester, Hart, Patrice Rushen, Mtume, Mike Clarke, Hadley Caliman,
         Paul Jackson, ...
  1977 - Comin' Through
    see Heritage
  1978 - Mahal
    with Hancock, Maupin, Priester, Summers, Jackson, Mtume, Ray Obiedo, ...
  1979 - Running To Your Love
    with ????

 May I add the Julian Priester albums of the 1970's which lovers of the
 Sextant days might also find interesting (they also are not available on
 CD (though LL will be in 1999), but I have the vinyl versions):

  1974 - Love, Love
    with Hadley Caliman, Patrick Gleeson, ...
  1977 - Polarization
    with Ray Obiedo and other players which are unknown to me

 You see, there's quite a lot out there, and, according to the personnel,
 it all seems very interesting (to me at least). Wish I could get my hands
 on these records!!

 Kind regards,
 - Chris.

 ---------------------------------------------
 *    Chris Genzel --- [e-mail]    *
 * Homepage & Herbie Hancock Discography at: *
 *    http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil/   *
 ---------------------------------------------


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mark Saleski <[e-mail]>
Subject: New Lounge Lizards
Date: 16 Jun 1998 14:39:35 -0400

i just picked up the new Lounge Lizards - "Queen of All Ears"

pretty cool stuff. reminds me of the material on Live In Tokyo.

cut #8 is called "John Zorn's S&M Circus". heh.

also got Laswell's 'ambient dub volume II' in the cheapo rack for $5.99




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Paul Audino <[e-mail]>
Subject: Speaking Of Threadgill...
Date: 16 Jun 1998 14:26:26 -0500 (CDT)


Does anyone out there know of a source for his now out-of-print _Easily
Slip Into Another World_ CD that was released on Novus about a decade ago?

Thanks,

Paul
[e-mail]

  GROOVE
----------
One Nation



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Henry Threadgill/Butch Morris
Date: 16 Jun 1998 17:50:48 -0400

Steve Smith wrote:

> I fully understand everything you said in your reponse to the Morris
> performance, but I have to say that I felt that the first piece was a
> complete success... to me it sounded like the early '70s Miles band as
> orchestrated by Luciano Berio... long static washes of dissonance with the
> funk band bursting out, seemingly randomly (as in "Sinfonia"), only to
> recede until its next outburst.

Part of my problem with the piece was that the "randomness" of the
alterations between funk and dissonance only seemed (to me) random in
the sense that Morris felt like he had to do _something_ up there to
justify his role as conductor. Many times I would have enjoyed letting
the band simply continue on, either funkily or dissonantly, to see what
they'd discover. I found myself thinking, "OK, Butch, provide these guys
with the germ of your idea and let them take off with it." But, I guess
that wouldn't be a "conduction". Bitch, bitch bitch....

Brian Olewnick

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Public Service Announcement re: new Cecil Taylor on FMP
Date: 17 Jun 1998 01:53:32 -0400

I've just picked up the new Cecil Taylor CD "The Tree of Life" (along
with the new Butch Morris 2CD "Berlin Skyscraper") on FMP.  And while it
is a typically powerful and beautiful CT solo disc, I just want to
mention that nowhere on the outside of the package ((C) and (P) 1998) is
there any evidence to indicate that the recording actually dates from
3/19/91, a live performance from the "Deutsche Oper Berlin."  CT fans
will be more than satisfied by the performance, but the lack of CT
recordings more recent than 1993 (the date "Always a Pleasure" was
recorded) continues.  I haven't a clue why this should be.

Anyone here catch CT's gig at Tribeca Hall during the Texaco Festival?
Once again, as when he was at Iridium earlier in the year, what was
billed as a trio was in fact a quartet, which in itself would have been
incentive for me to go hear them  Soprano saxophonist Harri Sj=F6str=F6m =
was
on this date and the Iridium run, neither of which I knew about until
well after the fact.  Is it really that hard to get the facts right when
it's CT?  (A rhetorical question... it's late and I'm cranky...)

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Stefan Verstraeten <[e-mail]>
Subject: meridiem record
Date: 17 Jun 1998 11:58:32 +0200

Dear Frith-ies and Zornies,
Just got a copy of the new album (meridiem) by fred frith, hayward,
howard and the ubiquous bill laswell.
I really recommend this album, frith really shows a different side of
himself, not so 'academic' like on 'the previous evening' or albums like
that. This time he plays more in a 'pop style' but still with his
typical 'sound' (distortion, improv,...).
Favorite tracks are: Iurodivi (frith on accoustic guitar, beautiful) and
Lunarsa (frith on violin).
How does the album sound: sort of ambient, but with an edge...

By the way: has anyone on the list got a copy of the new frith album on
tzadik records? How does it sound ????
--
Stefan Verstraeten

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Stephane Vuilleumier" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: meridiem record
Date: 17 Jun 1998 12:31:52 +0200

somebody described Meridiem to me as having David Sylvian or Peter Gabriel
singing...
I found this a bit harsh, but actually (and unfortunately) rather accurate.

Can somebody give more info more about Percy Howard?

Stephane


-----Original Message-----
[e-mail] <[e-mail]>


>Dear Frith-ies and Zornies,
>Just got a copy of the new album (meridiem) by fred frith, hayward,
>howard and the ubiquous bill laswell.
>I really recommend this album, frith really shows a different side of
>himself, not so 'academic' like on 'the previous evening' or albums like
>that. This time he plays more in a 'pop style' but still with his
>typical 'sound' (distortion, improv,...).
>Favorite tracks are: Iurodivi (frith on accoustic guitar, beautiful) and
>Lunarsa (frith on violin).
>How does the album sound: sort of ambient, but with an edge...
>
>By the way: has anyone on the list got a copy of the new frith album on
>tzadik records? How does it sound ????
>--
>Stefan Verstraeten
>
>-
>
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Geoff S Gersh)
Subject: New Series at the KF
Date: 17 Jun 1998 12:31:05 -0400

Straylight Dialogues w/ Pauline Oliveros
Monday, June 29, 1998  -  9& 11 pm
Alterknit Theater, Knitting Factory, 74 Leonard St. NYC
info / tix  212.219.3006  email:[e-mail]

Straylight Dialogues is a new series at the Knitting Factory featuring
the
ambient, avant world trio Straylight with special guest improvising
artists /
ensembles performing alone and in collaboration.  Straylight's members
Jason
Finkelman (berimbau, riti, percussion), Geoff Gersh (guitar), and Charles
Cohen (Buchla music easel) launch the series premiere with Pauline
Oliveros
(accordion, voice).  Composer / performer Pauline Oliveros is a pioneer
in
electronic and improvised music, a founding member of the Deep Listening
Band, which is currently celebrating it's 10th anniversary season, and an
educator who teaches her Deep Listening strategies throughout the world.

The Straylight Dialogues series is presented every last Monday of the
month at
the Knitting Factory, and will continue with an emphasis on improvisors
combining ambient sound, ethnic and experimental instruments, and collage
form.

Upcoming concerts:

Straylight Dialogues w/ Steve Gorn and John Wieczorek
Monday, July 27, 1998  -  9 & 11pm

Straylight Dialogues w/ Joe McPhee and Michael West
Monday, August 31, 1998  -  9 & 11pm

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Vadim Marmer <[e-mail]>
Subject: mistake on Masada-8
Date: 17 Jun 1998 19:59:12 +0300 (WET)

i posted that message before, but because i have not received any response
to it i`m posting it again.

i just received a copy of Masada-8 (Het), and  i saw that the Hebrew
letter that printed in the circle on the disc is not "HET", it`s "ZAYIN".
i wonder if the same mistakes appears on all copies of Masada Het. anybody
here saw it also? i suppose that there`s enough people on that list who
have Masada Het, i really want to know if that mistake appears on all CDs.




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Speaking Of Threadgill...
Date: 17 Jun 1998 21:41:46 -0400 (EDT)

Check your local large store delete bin. That's where I found all the
Threadgill and Braxton Novus CDs here in Toronto @ $4.99 to $7.99 (Can) each.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]




On Tue, 16 Jun 1998, Paul Audino wrote:

>
> Does anyone out there know of a source for his now out-of-print _Easily
> Slip Into Another World_ CD that was released on Novus about a decade ago?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Paul
> [e-mail]
>
>   GROOVE
> ----------
> One Nation
>
>
>
> -
>
>

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Public Service Announcement re: new Cecil Taylor on FMP
Date: 17 Jun 1998 21:51:19 -0400 (EDT)


Hey Steve:
=09You live in NYC and you're "in the business". Can't you find=20
someone in Manhattan who represents, manages or is friends with CT to=20
answer those questions below?
=09I too was initially excited when I heard there was a new=20
Taylor CD, then disappointed when I realized it was seven years old.
=09Can someone get Cecil into ther studio with Jackson & Krall and=20
whomever? I'm sure we're not the only ones who would savor some new Cecil=
=20
discs.

Waiting expectantly in Toronto

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]







On Wed, 17 Jun 1998, Steve Smith wrote:

> I've just picked up the new Cecil Taylor CD "The Tree of Life" (along
> with the new Butch Morris 2CD "Berlin Skyscraper") on FMP.  And while it
> is a typically powerful and beautiful CT solo disc, I just want to
> mention that nowhere on the outside of the package ((C) and (P) 1998) is
> there any evidence to indicate that the recording actually dates from
> 3/19/91, a live performance from the "Deutsche Oper Berlin."  CT fans
> will be more than satisfied by the performance, but the lack of CT
> recordings more recent than 1993 (the date "Always a Pleasure" was
> recorded) continues.  I haven't a clue why this should be.
>=20
> Anyone here catch CT's gig at Tribeca Hall during the Texaco Festival?
> Once again, as when he was at Iridium earlier in the year, what was
> billed as a trio was in fact a quartet, which in itself would have been
> incentive for me to go hear them  Soprano saxophonist Harri Sj=F6str=F6m =
was
> on this date and the Iridium run, neither of which I knew about until
> well after the fact.  Is it really that hard to get the facts right when
> it's CT?  (A rhetorical question... it's late and I'm cranky...)
>=20
> Steve Smith
> [e-mail]
>=20
>=20
> -
>=20
>=20

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Knitting Factory
Date: 17 Jun 1998 22:09:33 EDT

Has anyone gotten any music online form the Knitting Factory ever since the JZ
fiasco?

Thanks.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Info needed: FMP/AACM Jazz fest- Atlanta, GA. July 16-18
Date: 17 Jun 1998 23:30:42 EDT

Can anyone supply or point me to some info on this upcoming festival?  Much
obliged!!

=dgasque=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Knitting Factory
Date: 18 Jun 1998 00:39:11 -0400

[e-mail] wrote:

> Has anyone gotten any music online form the Knitting Factory ever since the JZ
> fiasco?

I watched a few minutes of the Miya Masaoka / William Parker / Susie Ibarra gig
Monday night but as there was no sound coming through I signed off.

There is now a stipulation in the contract of all main space performers to allow
or deny the webcast, and supposedly most musicians are cool with it.

Steve "Matt Drudge" Smith
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bob Kowalski <[e-mail]>
Subject: my trip to the record store...
Date: 18 Jun 1998 08:49:55 -0500

Looking forward to hearing the new Lizards disc, Queen of all Ears, as
well as the soundtrack for Fishing with John series and the (hopefully)
soon to be released African Swimming / Manny & Lo soundtrack.
Meanwhile I'll continue to enjoy Evan Lurie's recent Tzadik release...

The new Ribot disc jams indeed.  No shrieking guitars and some very
touching tunes, its excellent and no suprise for this long time fan.

New Tom Waits compilation is out -- no new tunes, just a compilation of
Island years tracks.  But hey, this is "The Man" (the Fishing w/ John
soundtrack however, is rumored to have guest vocals by Mr. Waits....)

Dave Douglas - is there really a new Winter and Winter release?  What
was the name of it again?  I saw a Wayne Shorter tribute album filed
under Douglas the other day... anyone familiar with this disc..?

Bob


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jason Tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Knitting Factory (TONIC)
Date: 18 Jun 1998 07:59:03 -0600

Sorry if this is old news, what is the JZ fiasco?

>Has anyone gotten any music online form the Knitting Factory ever since the JZ
>fiasco?

I stopped by Tonic to make sure JZ curated series is for real. I wonder if
this fiasco with the knit inspired Zorn to take his projects, and
associated muscians,  to another venue?
Tonic has a few draw backs as far as a music club goes, however,  the space
is smaller and more open than the knitting factory.

TONIC is at 107 Norfolk between Rivington and Delancey ( F or J train )
phone [phone]
JUNE
Wed 24 @11pm Opening Night Improv Party w/Zorn & many special guests - FREE
Thu 25 Dave Douglas $10
Fri 26 Josh Roseman $8
Sat 27 Mike Patton $15
Sun 28 Derek Bailey & Suzie Ibarra $10

JULY
Wed 1 Masada String Trio $10
Thu 2 Butch Morris $10
Fri 3 Arto Lindsay $10
Sat 4 Medeski, Martin & Wood $10
Sun 5 Zorn, Ribot, Medeski & Wollesen $10
Wed 8 Vernon Reid $10
Thu 9 Painkiller / Ikue Mori solo $15
Fri 10 Marc Ribot y los Cubanos Postisos $10
Sat 11 Previte / Sharp / Zorn $10
Sun 12 David Krakauer's Klezmer Madness $10
Wed 15 EasSide Percussion $6
Thu 16 Charles Gayle $10
Fri 17 Joe Lovano $10
Sat 18 Anthony Coleman's Sephardic Tinge $8
Sun 19 Myra Melford & Crush $8
Wed 22 Zeena Parkins $6
Thu 23 Spanish Fly $8
Fri 24 Ravi Coltrane $10
Sat 25 Min Xiao-Fen $8
Sun 26 William Parker $10
Wed 29 Erik Friedlander's Chimera $8
Thu 30 Alicia Svigals $8
Fri 31 Joey Baron & Baron Down $10

August
Sat 1 Roy Campbell's Other Dimensions $8
Sun 2 Chris Speed & Pachora $6
Wed 5 Eyvind Kang $10
Thu 6 Tim Berne $10
Fri 7 Cyro Baptista's Beat the Donkey $10
Sat 8 Liminal Lounge with Perowsky, Blume and guests $6
Sun 9 Mark Feldman $8
Wed 12 John Zorn's COBRA $10
Thu 13 Frank London $8
Fri 14 Mark Helias $10
Sat 15 Guy Klucevsek $8
Sun 16 Rashied Ali, Louis Belogenis & Wilber Morris $10

All Shows at 9 & 10:30

Every Friday at Midnight - Sex Mob
Every Saturday at Midnight - The Wollesens
except Jun 27 at midnight Erik Friedlander's Topaz





-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joe Germuska <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Info needed: FMP/AACM Jazz fest- Atlanta, GA. July 16-18
Date: 18 Jun 1998 09:08:04 -0500

>Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 23:30:42 EDT
>From: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Info needed: FMP/AACM Jazz fest- Atlanta, GA. July 16-18
>
>Can anyone supply or point me to some info on this upcoming festival?  Much
>obliged!!

A full accounting of the (amazing!) schedule of performances is in the
"se-improv" mailing list archives, web-able from:

<http://wnur.nwu.edu/cgi-bin/lwgate/SE-IMPROV/archives/se-improv.archive.980=
6/da
te/article-0.html>

It would be well worth the trip.

Joe
--
* Joe Germuska    {[e-mail]} |    Learning Technologies Group
<http://www.nwu.edu/people/j-germuska> |      Northwestern University

"The imaginary is that which tends to become real." -- Andr=E9 Breton

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Douglas Tapia)
Subject: Re: my trip to the record store...
Date: 18 Jun 1998 09:21:52 -0700


>Dave Douglas - is there really a new Winter and Winter release?  What
>was the name of it again?  I saw a Wayne Shorter tribute album filed
>under Douglas the other day... anyone familiar with this disc..?
>

Acording to Artur Nowak the new Winter and Winter disk is entitled _Charm
of Night Sky_

- "CHARM OF THE NIGHT SKY"
CD 'C56:07-13' WINTER & WINTER (910 015-2[G])   1998.

Dave DOUGLAS: trumpet./ Greg COHEN: acoustic bass./ Mark FELDMAN:
violin./ Guy KLUCEVSEK: accordion.

Where did you find this, Artur?

_Stargazer_ is the only Wayne Shorter tribute disk that Dave has done, as
far as I know.

While Searching for _Charm of the Night Sky_, I came across _Moving
Portrait_.  It was released on 16 Jun, 1998 and is DIW 3976934 2.  Does
anyone know anything about this disk?  Any idea of who the musicians are on
it?

peace

Doug



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Scott Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Dave Douglas (was:my trip to the record store...)
Date: 18 Jun 1998 09:14:01 PDT

 I saw a Wayne Shorter tribute album filed
>>under Douglas the other day... anyone familiar with this disc..?

It's the same sextet as the Booker Little "tribute" (IN OUR LIFETIME).
Relatively straight-ahead, with enormously complex yet non-academic
arrangements, and some gorgeous hall-of-fame percussion stylings by Joey
Baron.  I wouldn't hesitate to recommend this album.  Only three
(obscure) Shorter tunes, the rest by Dave.  I just love.  A great great
great jazz record.  My opinion, although I suspect it's a fact.

Does anyone know offhand if Dave is performing regularly w/ the Mahfouz
group?  Have they or will they record?  It sounds bad-ass.

--scott

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Charles Gillett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: mistake on Masada-8
Date: 18 Jun 1998 13:47:10 +0000

On Wed, 17 Jun 1998 19:59:12 +0300 (WET), Vadim Marmer wrote:
> i just received a copy of Masada-8 (Het), and  i saw that the Hebrew
> letter that printed in the circle on the disc is not "HET", it`s "ZAYIN".
> i wonder if the same mistakes appears on all copies of Masada Het. anybody
> here saw it also?

  My copy of "Het" also has a zayin on the disc.  I bought it at Jazz
Record Mart in Chicago and I opened it while riding on the train from
downtown to Oak Park, on my way toward seeing ROVA at Unity Temple.
Luckily, I had also just purchased "Zayin," so I was able to compare
the two discs and see that it was just a printing error and not the
wrong disc entirely.


-- Charles


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Artur Nowak" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: my trip to the record store...
Date: 18 Jun 1998 22:38:35 +0200

> >Dave Douglas - is there really a new Winter and Winter release?  What
> >was the name of it again?

Yes, it's brand new Winter & Winter release, and Partice already pointed
out my mistake in the title of this record. It's called "CHARMS OF THE
NIGHT SKY".

> Where did you find this, Artur?

Saturn, Alex Platz, Berlin, Germany, Europe (the other side of the world
you live in). Wow, am I the first peson on this mailinglist who get this
album? I already thought I live at the end of the world!   ;-)   Thank
god Berlin is 6 hours away from the place I live in Poland!

W&W already released few other interresting CDs: Eugene Chadbourne in
duets with Marc Ribot and Noel Akchote, Marc Ducret solo album (if my
memory serves), Paul Motian Trio (with Lovano and Frisell), Uri Caine
"Urlicht", compilation from the first few releases... sorry, I just
don't remember the details.

Regards

     __________________________________________________________________
     Artur Nowak [[e-mail]]
     www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/default.htm - Discography of Bill Frisell



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: my trip to the record store...
Date: 18 Jun 1998 19:11:46 -0400 (EDT)


    Not the end of the world when it comes to Winter & Winter. The
label's North American distribution is, to put it kindly, spotty.
    It took me about eight months to get my hands on Uri Caine's
Mahler project and I got one of the few copies in Toronto.
    It's a great disc, by the way.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]



On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, Artur Nowak wrote:

> > >Dave Douglas - is there really a new Winter and Winter release?  What
> > >was the name of it again?
>
> Yes, it's brand new Winter & Winter release, and Partice already pointed
> out my mistake in the title of this record. It's called "CHARMS OF THE
> NIGHT SKY".
>
> > Where did you find this, Artur?
>
> Saturn, Alex Platz, Berlin, Germany, Europe (the other side of the world
> you live in). Wow, am I the first peson on this mailinglist who get this
> album? I already thought I live at the end of the world!   ;-)   Thank
> god Berlin is 6 hours away from the place I live in Poland!
>
> W&W already released few other interresting CDs: Eugene Chadbourne in
> duets with Marc Ribot and Noel Akchote, Marc Ducret solo album (if my
> memory serves), Paul Motian Trio (with Lovano and Frisell), Uri Caine
> "Urlicht", compilation from the first few releases... sorry, I just
> don't remember the details.
>
> Regards
>
>      __________________________________________________________________
>      Artur Nowak [[e-mail]]
>      www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/default.htm - Discography of Bill Frisell
>
>
>
> -
>
>

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Laswell channels Miles
Date: 18 Jun 1998 19:22:43 -0400 (EDT)


This Just In:

    According to the latest (July 1998) issue of downbeat, it seems
that Bill Laswell is not only a bassist, a producer and a remixer of
tapes, but that he has a special relationship to the dead.
    In an article on his Panthalassa project, when asked what he
thinks about critics, fans and (probably) the original producer, Teo Macero
complaining about his remixs of Miles' 1969 to 1974 work he replies:
    "I knew Miles and I absolutely know he would have liked
    this. Nothing else matters. Not on review. Not one comment."
    Do you think that since Bill seems to be tuned into Miles'
wavelength on the "other side" he could find out some more info from him?
    I'm mostly interested to know how he's getting along with Eric Dolphy
in the next world, not to mention his relations with Monk and Mingus.

And people talked about Ra's weirdness

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: David Newgarden <[e-mail]>
Subject: Tonic New Music Series (NYC)
Date: 18 Jun 1998 19:37:49 -0400 (EDT)

Tonic's advertisement in Time Out (NY) has some errors. The previously
posted and printed schedule is correct re:

July 3 Arto Lindsay (solo guitar!)
July 4 Medeski Martin & Wood (however it will be an early 7pm show - one
set only)
July 5 Zorn, Ribot, Medeski & Wollesen

Charles Gayle has unfortunately had to cancel July 16, and we will have
a replacement show A.S.A.P.

If anyone needs the full Tonic schedule (and/or my Tonic-area restaurant
recommendations) please email me privately.

-David Newgarden
 [e-mail]





-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Africa/Holcomb
Date: 12 Jun 1998 08:50:05 -0300

Hi Zornheads!

Thanks for the information on African/Eastearn musicians, I also was
completely unaware of this kind of stuff; even though my heart (and
ears) are very close to Salif Keita and no one seems to listen to his
music.

Also add me to the Holcomb Club; she's really great.
I've been asking  myself why doesn't she plan new records?

-Hugo, from Argentina




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Antanas Gustys" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Vilnius Jazz Festival (Lithuania)
Date: 12 Jun 1998 00:55:35 +0300

Find full discography of Lithuanian jazz (incl. Vyacheslav Ganelin,Vladimir
Chekasin, Vladimir Tarasov,Petras Vysniauskas and many others) ,new albums,
history of Vilnius Jazz Festival and press ,photogallery ,news at web site
of
Vilnius Jazz Festival - http://www.vilniusjazz.lt
Best regards-Antanas Gustys.





-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Cancellation of Experimenta '98
Date: 09 Jun 1998 12:39:41 -0300

The decision last week end by Secretary of Culture of Buenos Aires to
cancel founding suport for avant-garde music event "Experimenta '98"
sent an abrupt final for this "suposed to be" second edition.

The Secretary was going to provide $140.000 for this purpose, but they
finally alleged budget problems that meant the cancellation of the event
(musicians originally announced included A. Lucier, M. Dresser, E.
Chadbourne and J. Zorn Masada amoung others).

Taken from local newspaper "La Nacisn", June 7th.

-Hugo (very sad), from Argentina




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Mark Logan and Kathleen O'Grady" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: my trip to the record store...
Date: 18 Jun 1998 21:30:41 -0400

> While Searching for _Charm of the Night Sky_, I came across _Moving
> Portrait_.  It was released on 16 Jun, 1998 and is DIW 3976934 2.  Does
> anyone know anything about this disk?  Any idea of who the musicians are on
> it?
>

This had Bill Carrothers on piano, James Genus on bass and Billy Hart on
Drums.  Recorded 12/29 and 30/97 in NYC.  9 tracks.  All Douglas originals
except Roses Blue, My Old Man and The Same Situation by Joni Mitchell.  Ive
listened to it a couple of times so far and been very impressed.

mark



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: my trip to the record store...
Date: 19 Jun 1998 00:20:15 -0400

Douglas Tapia wrote:

> - "CHARM OF THE NIGHT SKY"
> CD 'C56:07-13' WINTER & WINTER (910 015-2[G])   1998.
>
> Where did you find this, Artur?

It is scheduled for U.S. release through Allegro in August.  It should be easy
to find when it comes out.  I was in Tower two days ago and they had lots of
copies of the Uri Caine Mahler project and the latest Motian Trio disc, which
leads me to believe distribution for the label is finally underway and it's
going to be reasonably solid.  If your local indie store seems to be clueless
tell them to contact Allegro.  If you see new Black Saint, Soul Note and
Songlines discs where you shop, you'll eventually see Winter & Winter there
too.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Zorn <[e-mail]>
Subject: Revolutionary Peking Opera
Date: 19 Jun 1998 00:41:10 -0700

Hi....can anyone describe/recommend Ground Zero's Revolutionary Peking Opera?

thanks..

-matt


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "J.T. de Boer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Parallel Worlds
Date: 19 Jun 1998 13:31:53 +0200

Yesterday I picked up Douglas's "Parallel Worlds". I already had
"Five" and I liked that one so much it was nothing but a logical
buy. Can anyone give recommendations for more mixtures of
contemporary classical and improvized music? Not the ordinary
Tzadik/Avant/Hat releases, but more obscure musicians and ensembles.

Are there any opinions about "The Circle Maker"? I bought it a week
ago and I like the more subtle approach when I compare it with the
"Bar Kokhba" record.

Thanks,

Jeroen de Boer

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Revolutionary Peking Opera
Date: 19 Jun 1998 09:13:21 -0400

Zorn wrote:
>
> Hi....can anyone describe/recommend Ground Zero's Revolutionary Peking Opera?
>
> thanks..
>
> -matt
>

Take one part original recording of a Chinese opera, mix in samples of
same by Heiner Goebbels. Put aside to cool for 10 or so years. Fold in
treatments by Otomo Yoshihide and crew. Microwave and serve. Very tasty.

Season to taste.

A fine disc; get it.

Brian Olewnick
> -

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Douglas Tapia)
Subject: Re: my trip to the record store...
Date: 19 Jun 1998 10:45:40 -0700

>Douglas Tapia wrote:
>
>> - "CHARM OF THE NIGHT SKY"
>> CD 'C56:07-13' WINTER & WINTER (910 015-2[G])   1998.
>>
>> Where did you find this, Artur?
>
>It is scheduled for U.S. release through Allegro in August.  It should be easy
>to find when it comes out.  I was in Tower two days ago and they had lots of
>copies of the Uri Caine Mahler project and the latest Motian Trio disc,

That's great news!  I'd given up on trying to find the Mahler project state
side.  Now I've just got to emotionally prepair myself to get to that great
meca of alternative lifestyles and body piercing that is Tower. . .  [.-}

which
>leads me to believe distribution for the label is finally underway and it's
>going to be reasonably solid.  If your local indie store seems to be clueless
>tell them to contact Allegro.  If you see new Black Saint, Soul Note and
>Songlines discs where you shop, you'll eventually see Winter & Winter there
>too.
>
Woo-hoo!  Goodbye money.

Thanks for the tips, Steve!

peace

Doug



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Paul Audino <[e-mail]>
Subject: Winter & Winter releases in the US
Date: 19 Jun 1998 12:48:40 -0500 (CDT)


Hey everyone,

In case anyone is wondering what Winter & Winter releases are/will be
available in the States, here's a list from CDNow :

Out Now
-------

Caine/Mahler - _Urlict/Primal Light_
Paul Motian - _Sound Of Love_
VA - _From Monk To Bach_ (sampler)
VA - Voches De Sardinia 1 - _Tenore De Orosei_
VA - Voches De Sardinia 2 - _Cuncordu De Orosei_

Out June 23rd
-------------

J.S. Bach - _Ste Solo Vcl 1-3_

Out July 7th
------------

Berne/Ducret/Rainey - _Big Satan_
VA - Tango Vivo - _Noches De Buenos Aires_
Venezia La Festa - _Venezia La Festa_

Reviews of any of the above (esp. the world music releases) would be
appreciated.

Thanks,

Paul
[e-mail]

  GROOVE
----------
One Nation



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Winter & Winter releases in the US
Date: 19 Jun 1998 11:13:37 -0700


On Fri, 19 Jun 1998 12:48:40 -0500 (CDT)  Paul Audino wrote:
>
> VA - _From Monk To Bach_ (sampler)

Does anyone own this sampler? I need some info about it.

    Thanks,

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Silent Watcher" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Laswell channels Miles
Date: 19 Jun 1998 11:34:23 PDT


>    "I knew Miles and I absolutely know he would have liked
>    this. Nothing else matters. Not on review. Not one comment."
>    Do you think that since Bill seems to be tuned into Miles'
>wavelength on the "other side" he could find out some more info from
>him?    I'm mostly interested to know how he's getting along with Eric
>Dolphy in the next world, not to mention his relations with Monk and
>Mingus.

Before you go out with the villagers to burn Laswell at the stake, you
should know that Laswell has said in a few different places (I'll try to
dig them up for you if I can find them) that he did meet with Miles more
than a couple of times.  After Herbie Hancock's "Rockit" broke, Davis
talked to him about producing and album, but in the end Laswell passed
since he would have only done a few tracks, and he wanted to produce a
whole album.

DB
For Sale/Want List and Laswell Discography at
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Paul Audino <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Laswell channels Miles
Date: 19 Jun 1998 14:27:49 -0500 (CDT)


On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, Ken Waxman wrote:

>     In an article on his Panthalassa project, when asked what he
> thinks about critics, fans and (probably) the original producer, Teo Macero
> complaining about his remixs of Miles' 1969 to 1974 work he replies:
>     "I knew Miles and I absolutely know he would have liked
>     this. Nothing else matters. Not on review. Not one comment."

> And people talked about Ra's weirdness

    I really don't see what is so weird about Laswell's statements in the
article.  He details how he and Miles knew each other and planned to work
on a project together but Miles died before they could ever get around to
doing so.  When reading the article, I got the impression that from
knowing Miles (the person as well as his music), Laswell feels that Davis
would have approved of _Panthalassa_, i.e. the artist would have
approved of the mixing job done on his music.  Therefore, if Miles would
have given his blessing were he alive to do so, then screw everyone who
cries blasphemy when someone like Laswell "messes" with the originals.

    While I think that the author of the article unfairly makes it
seem as if Bill is whining about this issue, Laswell does have (IMHO) a
valid point.  He seems out to attack the purist point of view (interesting
how when Miles' electric works were being released we had acoustic purists
declaring them to be bullshit, and now three decades later some of the
"enlightened" cats of that time are crying foul @ the concept of
remixing).

    I would also highlight the portion of the article where Bill
states his belief that Teo did a sub-par job on the originals, and perhaps
very revealing in the ego department, Macero refusing to comment on Bill's
work.  One would think that the producer of the original versions, who
jazz lore basically credits with being a remixer (how many time have we
heard the story of Miles and the band jamming and Teo piecing together an
album out of hundreds of hours of tapes?), would at least be open to the
idea of someone else having a shot.  Yet apparently this is not the case.

    As a side note, if any purists out there (not that I think
that you would find many on this list) want to rally around a cause, they
can attack the Doc Scott and Jamie Myerson remixes of "Rated X" that are
floating around on a promo 12".  These two mixes are decent yet
standard-sounding jungle tracks that use the original as sample fodder yet
give no indication whatsoever how the remixers were affected by Davis and
his music.  I have no problem with using Davis for soundbytes, but I had
hoped that the remixes would have submitted tunes that carried a bit more
of a bang.

Out 2 Lunch With Lunchmeat,

Paul
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Paul Audino <[e-mail]>
Subject: Laswell & Miles P.S.
Date: 19 Jun 1998 14:31:10 -0500 (CDT)


One last observation that I forgot : at no point in the article does
Laswell give any sort of indication about "speaking with Miles from beyond
the grave."

But yes, Sun Ra did lead a fairly atypical life ;)

Paul
[e-mail]

  GROOVE
----------
One Nation



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Laswell channels Miles
Date: 19 Jun 1998 15:36:26 -0400 (EDT)


I'm not burning anyone at a stake (unless they have mashmellows). My
argument is not with Laswell's production, it's that he claims to "speak"
for Miles. NOBODY knows how Miles would view any remix or reissue of his
work if he were alive.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]






On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, Silent Watcher wrote:

>
> >    "I knew Miles and I absolutely know he would have liked
> >    this. Nothing else matters. Not on review. Not one comment."
> >    Do you think that since Bill seems to be tuned into Miles'
> >wavelength on the "other side" he could find out some more info from
> >him?    I'm mostly interested to know how he's getting along with Eric
> >Dolphy in the next world, not to mention his relations with Monk and
> >Mingus.
>
> Before you go out with the villagers to burn Laswell at the stake, you
> should know that Laswell has said in a few different places (I'll try to
> dig them up for you if I can find them) that he did meet with Miles more
> than a couple of times.  After Herbie Hancock's "Rockit" broke, Davis
> talked to him about producing and album, but in the end Laswell passed
> since he would have only done a few tracks, and he wanted to produce a
> whole album.
>
> DB
> For Sale/Want List and Laswell Discography at
> http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Laswell & Miles P.S.
Date: 19 Jun 1998 15:41:26 -0400 (EDT)

I was exaggerating for humorous effect, but Laswell saying that Miles
would approve is still his (Laswell's) opinion. As I posted elsewhere,
NOBODY knows what Miles would think or say in 1998. His comment might be:
%&*&^%&%$$%%^%  -as they used to print it in the old downbeat.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]



On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, Paul Audino wrote:

>
> One last observation that I forgot : at no point in the article does
> Laswell give any sort of indication about "speaking with Miles from beyond
> the grave."
>
> But yes, Sun Ra did lead a fairly atypical life ;)
>
> Paul
> [e-mail]
>
>   GROOVE
> ----------
> One Nation
>
>
>
> -
>
>

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Laswell channels Miles
Date: 19 Jun 1998 12:51:40 -0700


On Fri, 19 Jun 1998 14:27:49 -0500 (CDT)  Paul Audino wrote:
>
>
> On Thu, 18 Jun 1998, Ken Waxman wrote:
>
> >     In an article on his Panthalassa project, when asked what he
> > thinks about critics, fans and (probably) the original producer, Teo Macero
> > complaining about his remixs of Miles' 1969 to 1974 work he replies:
> >     "I knew Miles and I absolutely know he would have liked
> >     this. Nothing else matters. Not on review. Not one comment."
>
> > And people talked about Ra's weirdness
>
>     I really don't see what is so weird about Laswell's statements in the
> article.  He details how he and Miles knew each other and planned to work
> on a project together but Miles died before they could ever get around to
> doing so.  When reading the article, I got the impression that from
> knowing Miles (the person as well as his music), Laswell feels that Davis
> would have approved of _Panthalassa_, i.e. the artist would have
> approved of the mixing job done on his music.  Therefore, if Miles would
> have given his blessing were he alive to do so, then screw everyone who
> cries blasphemy when someone like Laswell "messes" with the originals.
>
>     While I think that the author of the article unfairly makes it
> seem as if Bill is whining about this issue, Laswell does have (IMHO) a
> valid point.  He seems out to attack the purist point of view (interesting
> how when Miles' electric works were being released we had acoustic purists
> declaring them to be bullshit, and now three decades later some of the
> "enlightened" cats of that time are crying foul @ the concept of
> remixing).
>
>     I would also highlight the portion of the article where Bill
> states his belief that Teo did a sub-par job on the originals, and perhaps
> very revealing in the ego department, Macero refusing to comment on Bill's
> work.  One would think that the producer of the original versions, who

We live in a really strange world... According to the above, Bill says
something negative on Teo Macero and Teo Macero refuses to comment (the
causal relation is not clearly stated, but it is besides what I am trying
to say). If the above is true, I would be tempted to side on Teo Macero's
side who has the dignity to shut up when he has nothing special to say.
But the person writing this e-mail seems to believe that shutting his
mouth is not a correct attitude, but bad mouthing is fine...

I would also like to say that it is perfectly OK for an artist/producer/etc
not to have to comment (positively or negatively) on everything done after
him... He might have more important things to do, or just tired of being
expected to have something relevant to say. For many people, shutting up
still means that they don't care (on one way or another). Even though
shutting up, these days, and thanks to the litigation hysteria, is often
interpreted negatively (as does the poster).

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Silent Watcher" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Laswell channels Miles
Date: 19 Jun 1998 13:14:12 PDT


>I'm not burning anyone at a stake (unless they have mashmellows).

Mmmmm....marshmellows...

>My argument is not with Laswell's production, it's that he claims to
>"speak" for Miles. NOBODY knows how Miles would view any remix or
>reissue of his work if he were alive.

Ok, sorry that I maybe read to deep into what I thought was deep sarcasm
as far as the "talking to the dead remarks".  Not having read the
article in Downbeat I can't comment on the words Laswell chooses.  As
for other articles on the remixes, Laswell says something to the effect
of he believes Miles would like what he did, and that he doesn't think
that it's all that sacreligious considering Miles' experimentation
throughout his career.  He always points to Macero's comments about
anyone not liking the work he did can remix the albums (or something of
that nature), although Macero doesn't seem all that pleased now that
it's been done.  Naturally, as you pointed out, no one can speak for
Miles' opinions on such works except Miles.

Peace,
DB
For Sale/Want list and Bill Laswell Discography at :
http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Kuehn <[e-mail]>
Subject: WhatI'dLikeToKnow
Date: 19 Jun 1998 13:49:46 +0000

Perhaps the 2nd volume of the Knitting Factory bookseries will discuss the
evolution of the "live webcam" and all the issues it raises, artistic
political & corporate.

And I'd sure like to know more about the club's  "globalization"...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the cam continues nonfunctional since the Zorn
incident - I hope it's not a "private party" much longer....

They've got posted hours now 8 to midnight  -  that's about 2 to 6pm here,
which I understand as a musician, but jeez what a thrill it was to watch&hear
all those guys doing soundchecks!!!  Now just a brief moment in history - glad
I was "there"...

Actually, since the beginning of june, I have gotten picture a couple times,
but silent film, silent music   -nothing.

Can anybody give us any details about webcam drama or global takeover?

Thanks
--
Smokey Dan

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Jamie F Graves)
Subject: Booker Little
Date: 19 Jun 1998 20:37:15 -0400

I just picked up a copy of an old Booker Little album called "In New
York." I had always enjoyed his playing with Eric Dolphy, and I'm not at
all dissapointed with the disc. Does anyone have any other Booker Little
recomendations for me? I know his recorded output is quite small
considering his premature death.
Jamie

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Jamie F Graves)
Subject: Re: Parallel Worlds
Date: 19 Jun 1998 20:32:29 -0400

>Yesterday I picked up Douglas's "Parallel Worlds". I already had
>"Five" and I liked that one so much it was nothing but a logical
>buy. Can anyone give recommendations for more mixtures of
>contemporary classical and improvized music? Not the ordinary
>Tzadik/Avant/Hat releases, but more obscure musicians and ensembles.
>
>Are there any opinions about "The Circle Maker"? I bought it a week
>ago and I like the more subtle approach when I compare it with the
>"Bar Kokhba" record.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Jeroen de Boer

Probably the first logical step would be to sniff around Gunther
Schuller's Third Stream stuff from the 60's. I have a Dolphy album called
Vintage Dolphy which has a Gunther Schuller piece called "Variations on a
Theme By Monk", which weaves in and out of jazz and classical in an
arrangement of Monk's Criss Cross.

I haven't heard it, but Uri Caine has a Mahler tribute album that you
might want to check out.
Jamie

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: WhatI'dLikeToKnow
Date: 19 Jun 1998 20:44:51 EDT

In a message dated 98-06-19 19:51:22 EDT, you write:

<< Correct me if I'm wrong, but the cam continues nonfunctional since the Zorn
 incident - I hope it's not a "private party" much longer....
  >>

I had video Thursday night, but no audio. And I was really looking forward to
that one too.....I really hope we haven't seen the end of this wonderful idea
due to some bloated egos.

Dale.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Paul Audino <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Laswell channels Miles
Date: 19 Jun 1998 21:06:40 -0500 (CDT)


On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

> We live in a really strange world... According to the above, Bill says
> something negative on Teo Macero and Teo Macero refuses to comment (the
> causal relation is not clearly stated, but it is besides what I am trying
> to say). If the above is true, I would be tempted to side on Teo Macero's
> side who has the dignity to shut up when he has nothing special to say.
> But the person writing this e-mail seems to believe that shutting his
> mouth is not a correct attitude, but bad mouthing is fine...

I re-checked the article.  It states that Macero was contacted, that he
was "incensed" at what Bill has done and that he refused to make any
on-the-record comments.  I don't think that this is an "incorrect
attitude" as much as it is a curiosity.  If Macero doesn't like what has
been done, why?  He's offered the forum to air his viewpoint but doesn't
even offer up any reason why he is displeased, although he is indeed
displeased.

> I would also like to say that it is perfectly OK for an artist/producer/etc
> not to have to comment (positively or negatively) on everything done after
> him... He might have more important things to do, or just tired of being
> expected to have something relevant to say. For many people, shutting up
> still means that they don't care (on one way or another). Even though
> shutting up, these days, and thanks to the litigation hysteria, is often
> interpreted negatively (as does the poster).

Of course he doesn't have to comment.  It's a shame that he doesn't,
however, seeing as how legend has accorded him the title of Shaper of
Miles Davis' Music Of This Period.  Since Miles isn't around to comment,
it would be nice if one of creative partners did.

Paul
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: WhatI'dLikeToKnow
Date: 20 Jun 1998 01:57:49 -0400

Dan Kuehn wrote:

> They've got posted hours now 8 to midnight  -  that's about 2 to 6pm here,
> which I understand as a musician, but jeez what a thrill it was to watch&hear
> all those guys doing soundchecks!!!  Now just a brief moment in history - glad
> I was "there"...

You were "there" for a lot more than you know.  Think about it this way... you
wake up one morning and discover, a la "The Truman Show," that your bathroom
mirror has always had a hidden camera behind it, through which the entire world
has been able to tune in to watch you scratch your ass in the morning.

That may sound funny, but that's about how it felt when Zorn found out that the
cameras had been on 24-7.  Thus the reaction.  But, like I said, the webcam's now
a part of the contract a performer signs in agreeing to play the Main Space, it's
turned on at the performer's discretion (or not), and if I understand correctly
from my former cohorts, it's actually more sophisticated now, with multiple
cameras giving a variety of angles on the stage.

> Actually, since the beginning of june, I have gotten picture a couple times,
> but silent film, silent music   -nothing.

I watched Masaoka/Parker/Ibarra the other day but there was no sound.  Perhaps a
statement is being made, or perhaps the equipment's simply out of order again.
Send a message to Steve Gratzer ([e-mail]) and see what he
reports.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Christopher Hamilton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Laswell channels Miles
Date: 20 Jun 1998 02:14:21 -0400 (EDT)



On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, Paul Audino wrote:

>     I would also highlight the portion of the article where Bill
> states his belief that Teo did a sub-par job on the originals, and perhaps
> very revealing in the ego department, Macero refusing to comment on Bill's
> work.  One would think that the producer of the original versions, who
> jazz lore basically credits with being a remixer (how many time have we
> heard the story of Miles and the band jamming and Teo piecing together an
> album out of hundreds of hours of tapes?), would at least be open to the
> idea of someone else having a shot.  Yet apparently this is not the case.

Since Macero's has stated that he's fine with someone else taking the
masters and making different choices, perhaps he just doesn't like the
choices Laswell made.  Or maybe (I haven't seen the article yet) he's just
pissed that Laswell's been badmouthing the original mixes so much.  If
it's the latter, I can sympathize.  I like the Laswell versions fine, but
I don't think they're up to Macero's, and Laswell's complaints about the
originals have made me really want to hate the new ones.

Chris Hamilton


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: WhatI'dLikeToKnow
Date: 20 Jun 1998 02:32:07 -0400

Steve Smith wrote:
> That may sound funny, but that's about how it felt when Zorn found out that the
> cameras had been on 24-7.  Thus the reaction.  But, like I said, the webcam's now
> a part of the contract a performer signs in agreeing to play the Main Space, it's
> turned on at the performer's discretion (or not), and if I understand correctly
> from my former cohorts, it's actually more sophisticated now, with multiple
> cameras giving a variety of angles on the stage.

It's probably a good thing that artists are being given a choice. If
it's so, though, it would make sense for the Powers That Be to note on
the calendar and the Web page whether an upcoming show was to be
Webcast, so we could turn in or not without playing Wheel of Knitting.

--
---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Laswell channels Miles
Date: 20 Jun 1998 02:29:12 -0400

Paul Audino wrote:

> On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> > We live in a really strange world... According to the above, Bill says
> > something negative on Teo Macero and Teo Macero refuses to comment (the
> > causal relation is not clearly stated, but it is besides what I am trying
> > to say). If the above is true, I would be tempted to side on Teo Macero's
> > side who has the dignity to shut up when he has nothing special to say.
> > But the person writing this e-mail seems to believe that shutting his
> > mouth is not a correct attitude, but bad mouthing is fine...
>
> I re-checked the article.  It states that Macero was contacted, that he
> was "incensed" at what Bill has done and that he refused to make any
> on-the-record comments.  I don't think that this is an "incorrect
> attitude" as much as it is a curiosity.  If Macero doesn't like what has
> been done, why?  He's offered the forum to air his viewpoint but doesn't
> even offer up any reason why he is displeased, although he is indeed
> displeased.

Teo offered the writer many, many detailed reasons why he didn't like what was
done on "Panthalassa" and on any number of other Miles-related things.  Then he
asked the writer what *he* thought of "Panthalassa" and the writer made the grave
error of indicating that he *liked* it, whereupon Teo set upon the writer and
threatened to sue if anything he'd said was used in print.  Therefore, what would
undoubtedly have been an interesting and valuable part of the overall picture was
summarily shut out.

"Matt Drudge"
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Laswell channels Miles
Date: 20 Jun 1998 02:47:21 -0400

Steve Smith wrote:

> Teo offered the writer many, many detailed reasons why he didn't like what was
> done on "Panthalassa" and on any number of other Miles-related things.  Then he
> asked the writer what *he* thought of "Panthalassa" and the writer made the grave
> error of indicating that he *liked* it, whereupon Teo set upon the writer and
> threatened to sue if anything he'd said was used in print.  Therefore, what would
> undoubtedly have been an interesting and valuable part of the overall picture was
> summarily shut out.

Has he spoken about these matters elsewhere? I'd be quite interested in
what he has to say. (Much as I like "Panthalassa", it'll never replace
the original version of, for example, "He Loved Him Madly" for me...)

--
---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Artur Nowak" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Winter & Winter releases in the US
Date: 20 Jun 1998 10:55:47 +0200

> > VA - _From Monk To Bach_ (sampler)
>
> Does anyone own this sampler? I need some info about it.

I don't have detailed info, but it has one track from each of the
released albums. The first track is from "Sound of Love", it is
"Misterioso" by Monk, Uri Caine arrangement of Mahler with Arto Lindsay
on vocals in someplace in the middle, and Bach's piece is the last one
(now you know where the title came from). no more than 10 tracks. No
details this time. One optimistic news though: this sampler has lower
price (24 DM) than other albums (34 DM). I wonder what will be the price
in US? I have to pay ~40 DM for Tzadik CDs in Germany and ~45 for
japanese imports (49,90 for Masadas "Tet"). 8-(

Regards

     __________________________________________________________________
     Artur Nowak [[e-mail]]
     www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/default.htm - Discography of Bill Frisell



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Artur Nowak" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Winter & Winter releases in the US
Date: 20 Jun 1998 10:55:42 +0200

> Paul Motian - _Sound Of Love_

Very nice record, but not so good as "In Tokyo" (IMHO) previously
released by JMT. Usually the scheme for a song is simple: main theme,
solos (Lovano, than Frisell, than together), main theme once again. But
the solos are nice; actually some time ago I was suspicious about
Frisell's collaboration with Motian and Lovano (especially him), but now
I really like their records, the records recorded live (majority of
their albums) are really great and are good remedy for Zorns aggresive
style (sorry for too general expression about maestro).

Anyone can share the impressions about other Motian records? I'm really
eager to learn more.

Details, just for the record:

PAUL MOTIAN TRIO
- "PAUL MOTIAN, BILL FRISELL & JOE LOVANO LIVE AT THE VILLAGE VANGUARD -
SOUND OF LOVE" (07. - 10.06.1995.)
CD 'C59:25-7' WINTER & WINTER (910 008-2)     199_.
1. Misterioso. (Thelonious MONK) (13:24)/ 2. Duke Ellington's Sound of
Love. (Charles MINGUS) (9:09)/ 3. Mumbo Jumbo. (Paul MOTIAN) (7:29)/ 4.
Once Around the Park. (Paul MOTIAN) (6:48)/ 5. Good Morning Heartache.
(Dan FISHER, Irene HIGGINBOTTOM, Ervin DRAKE) (8:48)/ 6. Epistrophy.
(Thelonious MONK, Liaquat Ali SALAAM) (7:10)/ 7. Play. (Paul MOTIAN)
(6:08).
Bill FRISELL: electric guitar./ Joe LOVANO: tenor saxophone./ Paul
MOTIAN: drums.
20 bit digital recording with Sony PCM 9000 live to two track at the
Village Vanguard, New York City, USA, June 7 trough 10, 1995. Effanel
Location Recording Assistants: James BRIGGS, Brian KINGMAN and John
HARRIS. Recording Engineer: Joe FERLA. Digitally Mastered with Sonic
Solutions Turbo Bit Mapping at Bauer Studios, Ludwigburg, Germany,
September 14, 1996. Engineer: Adrian Von RIPKA. CD SmartPac (c)
19532321.1-53: Herzog+Index. Art&design: stephenbyram. Photography:
Robert LEWIS. Producer: Stefan WINTER. Bill FRISELL appears courtesy of
elektra / asylum / nonesuch records. Joe LOVANO appears courtesy of blue
note records. [100%]

Regards

     __________________________________________________________________
     Artur Nowak [[e-mail]]
     www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/default.htm - Discography of Bill Frisell



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Felix" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Winter & Winter releases in the US
Date: 19 Jun 1998 19:33:06 +0200

>Caine/Mahler - _Urlict/Primal Light_

I got this one and was surprized at it's quality. I didn't know anything
from Uri Caine, but the names of Dave Douglas, Joey Baron, Mark Feldman and
Arto Lindsay called me to it. It's really good, specially the the 3rd
movement of symphonie n║ 1, the one from which the french "frΘre Jaques
(sp?)" comes from. Overall, it's a multifaced album going from typical jazz
tunes to klezmer to crazy songs like the drunkard in spring or the drummer
boy. Really good! I stronlgy recommend it!

joey baron (drums); aaron bensoussan (cantor and hand drums); dave binney
(soprano sax); danny blume (guitar and electronics); dean bowman (vocals);
don byron (clarinet); uri caine (piano); dave douglas (trumpet); mark
feldman (violin); michael formanek (bass); larry gould (cello); arto lindsay
(vocals); dj olive (turntables); josh roseman (trombone).

Special attention, as I said above, to Baron and Douglas, they are
incredible (as always)

BTW, could anyone tell me what is the publisher of Zorn's The Big Gundown?

Thanks
Felix
[e-mail]




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Schwartz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Electric Miles Stereo Fantasy
Date: 20 Jun 1998 11:12:07 -0400

I recall people who attended the Miles conferences in St.
Louis reporting that Teo was unhappy with the release of
uncut Miles on the Plugged Nickel and Miles/Gil box sets.
While he may not be opposed to the creation of alternate
versions of the pieces, he did not think it should be
issued as played (especially the electric music-I must
agree that Big Fun is not my favorite Miles album but I
don't see the same logic supporting cutting out bits of
solos from the Blackhawk and Plugged Nickel quintet
dates).
Sorry that this is all hearsay.
I have to say that, despite the above, I'm basically down
with what John Corbett said in Downbeat: Laswell's
versions are cool, but when CBS starts boxing up the
electric era, they really should give it up uncut-if I had
to pay for 2 CDs of rehearsals on the Miles/Gil box,
they'd better give me the entire In a Silent Way, Live
Evil, and Jack Johnson sessions.
I'm hoping the next advance in home audio is a multi-track
format where an album could come with a default mix, a
couple of alternates (dry, karaoke, disgruntled
bandmember, whatever) and the listener would be able to
adjust eq, track levels, track panning, effects, etc at
home.
I know some CD-ROMs like Peter Gabriel's and 0(+> had
little toylike remix modules, and it'd be expensive as
hell for everyone to get a 64 channel board for home, but
it could be done virtually, through a computer interface
or a Nintendo-like controller that put the board on your
TV screen. It would kick ass, especially for electric
Miles ("ok, THAT electric piano is Larry Young, THAT one
is Herbie, pan Don Alias hard right and Airto hard left,
turn up Benny Maupin...").
--
Jeff Schwartz
[e-mail]
http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Booker Little
Date: 20 Jun 1998 12:20:47 -0400 (EDT)

If you "enjoyed his playing with Eric Dolphy" you probably have "Out
Front" on Candid, which features Dolphy, Roach et. al. If not pick it up.
Also look for Roach's "Freedom Now Suite" (Columbia --when last seen);
and "Percussion Bitter Sweet" (Impulse!). Unfortunately, Little only made
about four LPs undere his own name.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]


On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, Jamie F Graves wrote:

> I just picked up a copy of an old Booker Little album called "In New
> York." I had always enjoyed his playing with Eric Dolphy, and I'm not at
> all dissapointed with the disc. Does anyone have any other Booker Little
> recomendations for me? I know his recorded output is quite small
> considering his premature death.
> Jamie
>
> _____________________________________________________________________
> You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
> Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
> Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]
>
> -
>
>

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Winter & Winter releases in the US
Date: 20 Jun 1998 12:33:16 -0400 (EDT)

If you liked that, Caine has a more conventionally "jazzy" CD called=20
"Toys" out on JMT. The label is, as you know, defunct, but you can=20
probably still find it.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]







On Fri, 19 Jun 1998, Felix wrote:

> >Caine/Mahler - _Urlict/Primal Light_
>=20
> I got this one and was surprized at it's quality. I didn't know anything
> from Uri Caine, but the names of Dave Douglas, Joey Baron, Mark Feldman a=
nd
> Arto Lindsay called me to it. It's really good, specially the the 3rd
> movement of symphonie n=BA 1, the one from which the french "fr=E9re Jaqu=
es
> (sp?)" comes from. Overall, it's a multifaced album going from typical ja=
zz
> tunes to klezmer to crazy songs like the drunkard in spring or the drumme=
r
> boy. Really good! I stronlgy recommend it!
>=20
> joey baron (drums); aaron bensoussan (cantor and hand drums); dave binney
> (soprano sax); danny blume (guitar and electronics); dean bowman (vocals)=
;
> don byron (clarinet); uri caine (piano); dave douglas (trumpet); mark
> feldman (violin); michael formanek (bass); larry gould (cello); arto lind=
say
> (vocals); dj olive (turntables); josh roseman (trombone).
>=20
> Special attention, as I said above, to Baron and Douglas, they are
> incredible (as always)
>=20
> BTW, could anyone tell me what is the publisher of Zorn's The Big Gundown=
?
>=20
> Thanks
> Felix
> [e-mail]
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -
>=20
>=20

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Need Help Tracking Down _Meridiem_
Date: 20 Jun 1998 15:29:54 -0700

At 07:17 PM 6/11/98 +0000, Paul Audino wrote:


>    I could use some leads in my search
>to track down the Laswell/Howard/Hayward/Frith: _Meridiem_ release which
>the Materiali Sonori web page says has been released.  I did find one
>all-Italian web site, but the lack of English translations would make
>ordering a daunting task.

I got a note from Percy Howard today that the US release will be on July 1.


Jeff Spirer
B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/
Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html
Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Charles Gillett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Downtown Lullaby error; Moving Portrait
Date: 20 Jun 1998 18:04:31 +0000

The liner notes for my copy of _Downtown Lullaby_ have the timings
for the first track and the last track switched.  "484 Broome" is
actually 5:42, and "1 Morton St (Downtown Lullaby)" is 9:00.  All
the other timings are correct.

   The music is good, I think, with a bit of a melancholy feel.  No
one player takes the spotlight for very long--there are some solos,
but for the most part all of the players are working together.  A
little howling and screeching; just enough.

   The new Dave Douglas on DIW hasn't impressed me yet.  It's pretty,
but not much more than that.  I like some of Dave's solos, but Bill
Carrothers doesn't seem to have much of a personality--perhaps one
will emerge upon further listening (I saw him play Fender Rhodes
with the local band Happy Apple, and that wasn't bad, but the context
was quite different).  The rhythm section doesn't move me one way or
another.

   The compositions mostly have that "floating on air" quality that
some of Douglas's other work has ("Petals," by New and Used; a couple
tunes on "Stargazer"); sometimes I wonder if this quality is due to
some group of chords Dave likes to use, but I haven't done the kind
of close analysis it would take to determine that.  All I know for
sure is that he's written several pieces which have a certain similar
quality, and I don't really like any of them.


-- Charles

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Alan E Kayser <[e-mail]>
Subject: uri caine
Date: 21 Jun 1998 08:54:53 -0400

For those of you in the Philadelphia area:

    Uri Caine will be signing copies of his Winter & Winter cd
"Mahler-Urlicht" at Classical Choice, 122 S 21st Street on Wednesday,
June 24 from 5 to 8pm.  This is a follow up to his European trip and
recent trio date at Chris' on Sansom Street.

    Come early!

    Be on the lookout for more news on upcoming concerts presented by
Sweetnighter Productions.  Listen to Mike Harrison on WRTI for news, and
our listings in the City Paper and Philly Weekly.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Recent Goodies and otherwise
Date: 21 Jun 1998 10:37:14 -0400

GAVIN BRYARS        A MAN IN A ROOM, GAMBLING    POINT

The title pieces (five are presented out of the ten which make up the
entire work) are rather unique. Intended as radio inserts similar to BBC
radio shipping reports (our British subscribers might have a better idea
of the context), they consist of an English-speaking, Spanish-accented
narrator describing various card-sharping techniques accompanied by
moody, often poignant music for Bryars' small ensemble. It's often very
funny, sometimes a bit oddly sad. Of the remaining pieces, 'Les
Fiancailles' from 1983 begins in the same territory as Bryars'
'Hommages' from around the same time (an old favorite of mine) and
wanders very close to that old Zornian standby, Messaien's 'Louange a
l'Eternite....'. Very nice. The other two works, 'The North Shore' and
'The South Downs' stick to that, for me, ho-hum area he's been
inhabiting in recent years. Pretty, but kinda blah.

I understand Point is planning to release the original Obscure recording
of 'Jesus' Blood...' and '...Titanic'. Those who only know these pieces
from the recent recordings (as well as those of us with the eroding
vinyl) would do well to pick this up; a desert island disc. I'd add,
though, that I find the 1990 recording of 'Titanic' on Les Disques de
Crepuscule to be even better than the original, but I'm not sure how
difficult this is to come by.

DEREK BAILEY/MIN XIAO FEN    VIPER            AVANT

Caught this duo in the fall at the Knit and had the same problem then as
with this release (recorded 12/97): As much as I love Min's work in
traditional Chinese music (check out her fine disc on Asphodel), I just
don't find her a compelling free improvisor and, as many have before
her, I think she bends too readily to Mr. Bailey (who I don't think is
in top form here either). He makes several nods towards her style, she
follows for a moment, then "retreats" into some fairly bland improv. I'd
much rather have heard Bailey being Bailey, Min being Min, and seeing if
they'd meet somewhere. Not terrible, mind you, but nowhere near as
scintillating as one would have hoped. BTW, much praise to Ikue Mori for
another stunning graphic design, virtually worth the price of the disc!

Not quite "Recent", but new to my collection and worth hearing:

ARCADO STRING TRIO    LIVE IN EUROPE        AVANT

Nice work, but I'd love to hear these guys loosen up a bit more.
Dresser's and Feldman's own music often seems to have an academic strain
to it that gnaws at me a bit. C'mon guys, have some fun!

HINDEMITH/SCHULHOFF/SCHREKER    TANZ GROTESK        LONDON

Three enjoyable early to mid 20th century pieces by composers the Third
Reich considered 'degenerate' ("Entartete Musik"). While I'm
uncomfortable with the popular idea that _anything_ liked by this or
that human beast must be terrible and _anything_ hated by same must be
good (similarly, with the tastes of this or that "saint"), these are
fine pieces, especially Hindemith's 'Der Damon'.

On the other hand, two bargain bin buys that would've been better off
unbought:

EUGENE CHADBOURNE    CAMPER VAN CHADBOURNE        FUNDAMENTAL

From, I imagine, around 1988. I tend to enjoy EC's guitar work and other
music, but his puerile politics make me think of some precocious 10-year
old who's just discovered the notion of hypocrisy. Those TV preachers
are scumbags?! No! You're kidding!! Southern whites are sometimes
racist?! You don't say! Couldn't find any easier targets, Eugene? Feh.

(VARIOUS)        VALIS, VOL 1        SUBHARMONIC

One or two OK cuts (Laswell's and one by Corporal Blossom, whoever that
is). Much boring dub and various tedious (to me) house forms.
Sub-moronic liner notes from DJ Spooky, whose pieces here I found
disappointing, considering his involvement with Xenakis and such.

All for now,

Brian Olewnick

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Josh Roseman
Date: 21 Jun 1998 10:50:12 -0400

I'm thinking of going to see Roseman at Tonic on Friday, but I've no
idea what his own music is like. I've heard him twice, once with Ellery
Eskelin and Joey Baron, where he was excellent and last week in
Threadgill's ensemble where he was, IMHO, so-so. Can anyone fill me in
as to his own band?

Thanks,

Brian Olewnick

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Circle9 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Help!! (Not really Zorn-related)
Date: 21 Jun 1998 03:20:27 -0400

Is anyone on the list at all familiar with posting RealAudio tracks to
the Web? I've been trying to post a couple to my site, but when I go to
test them with my browser, they won't stream. Instead my computer will
download the entire file first, as if it was a .wav or something. It's
not my browser- it streams Real media just fine off of anyone else's
site. I'm using Frontpage 97 for Web design. Anyone have any ideas?





-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Butch Morris
Date: 21 Jun 1998 12:38:49 EDT

Anyone know more about the Morris gig planned for Tonic on Thursday? Who's he
supposed to be playing with?

Thanks,
Jon

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: philz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Source for Locus Solus Records
Date: 21 Jun 1998 12:06:24 -0400

>David K wrote:

>I am looking to pick up some records on the new label,
>"Locus Solus".  It is the Japanese arm of Recommended
>Records.  Anybody know of a mail order site for these
>records?  The two releases on Locus Solus so far are:


From doing the rer site (http://www.panix.com/~zampino/rer/) I've picked up
a small amount of info about the distributor Locus Solus from Kenichi
Kitamura, a RIO/rer fan.   Locus Solus is not actually a part of
Recommended Records, but does distribute their records in Japan:

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

From Kenichi Kitamura:

In Japan,a distributor , Locus Solus ,began to distribute ReR,Cuneiform,
Ambience Magnetique,RecRec,AYAA, and so on.

Locus Solus invited Charles Heyward,Nick Didkovski,Amy Denio to Japan.
and will invite Fred Frith&Chris Cutler,Die Knodel(RecRec) soon.
And distributes RecRec,ReR,Cuneiform,AYAA,Megaphone,amf,Ambience Magnetique,
Victo release(or so).

To contact Locus Solus:Tel.Gax 0422-21-4758

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

philz

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Chris Genzel)
Subject: Re: Valis, Vol 1
Date: 21 Jun 1998 22:42:33 +0200


> (VARIOUS)        VALIS, VOL 1        SUBHARMONIC
>
> One or two OK cuts (Laswell's and one by Corporal Blossom, whoever that
> is). Much boring dub and various tedious (to me) house forms.
> Sub-moronic liner notes from DJ Spooky, whose pieces here I found
> disappointing, considering his involvement with Xenakis and such.

 Actually, I love the Valis CD. These tracks are so wonderfully fucked up,
 from DXT's painful scratching on "Bullit In The Head" to We's strange
 oscillations on "Quark Soup", AF's messing up of "Osaka Bondage" on "Peace
 Akhi", Spectre's gangster-style "Backstab", the bad FM reception beginning
 of Corporal Blossom's "Senseless Humor", Torture's rap-on-dope "Play To Win"
 and the wall of noise of DJ Spooky's "Nasty Data Burst". I also found the
 liner notes quite interesting. By the way, Corporal Blossom is actually
 sound engineer Layng Martine (one of Laswell's associates).

 Kind regards,
 - Chris.


 ---------------------------------------------
 *    Chris Genzel --- [e-mail]    *
 * Homepage & Herbie Hancock discography at: *
 *    http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil/   *
 ---------------------------------------------


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "David J. Keffer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Bailey/Min, Musica Transonic/Haino
Date: 21 Jun 1998 19:16:18 -0400

>From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>>
>DEREK BAILEY/MIN XIAO FEN    VIPER            AVANT
>
>...As much as I love Min's work in
>traditional Chinese music (check out her fine disc on Asphodel), I just
>don't find her a compelling free improvisor and, as many have before
>her, I think she bends too readily to Mr. Bailey (who I don't think is
>in top form here either). He makes several nods towards her style, she
>follows for a moment, then "retreats" into some fairly bland improv.
>...Not terrible, mind you, but nowhere near as
>scintillating as one would have hoped.

Picked this up myself and I agree with each point Mr. Olewnick makes above.
Not a spectacular collaboration, not primo-Bailey and less interesting than
Min's Asphodel release, "Spring, River, Flower, Moon, Night".  In fact what
"Viper" is very strongly reminiscent of is the disc of duet improvisations
that Jin Hi Kim (Komungo, Korean stringed instrument) put out on
Nonsequitur/What Next? in 1993, pairing up with the likes of Bailey, Reichel,
Sharp, Kaiser, Chadbourne... (And the Nonsequitur release is better for the
varied line-up.)

A recent release that shows a much better collaboration is the new disc
"Incubation" by Musica Transonic with Keiji Haino on PSF. On this disc they
put together a nice mixture of Musica Transonic's volume and Keiji Haino's
unique vocals and guitar.

David K.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Help!! (Not really Zorn-related)
Date: 22 Jun 1998 00:31:06 -0400

Circle9 wrote:

> Is anyone on the list at all familiar with posting RealAudio tracks to
> the Web? I've been trying to post a couple to my site, but when I go to
> test them with my browser, they won't stream. Instead my computer will
> download the entire file first, as if it was a .wav or something.

I'm no expert but I think this has something to do with whether your ISP
runs a RealAudio server or not.  You can probably find tips at the
RealAudio website, but that's what the problem sounds like to me.  I've not
yet started offering RealAudio on my site yet, but it's definitely in the
works.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Dave Douglas at Tonic Thursday night
Date: 22 Jun 1998 00:42:01 -0400

Dave Douglas asked me to pass along to all interested parties the makeup
and the style of the band he'll be leading at Tonic next Thursday night:

Dave Douglas, Cuong Vu, Roy Campbell, trumpets; Drew Gress, bass; Susie
Ibarra, drums and percussion
Content will be free jazz and possibly some Rahsaan Roland Kirk covers.
Someone tell me about it, as I'm forced to be elsewhere that evening...
:-(

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rob DeNunzio <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Help!! (Not really Zorn-related)
Date: 22 Jun 1998 00:51:24 -0700

At 12:31 AM 6/22/98 -0400, Steve Smith wrote:
>Circle9 wrote:
>
>> Is anyone on the list at all familiar with posting RealAudio tracks to
>> the Web? I've been trying to post a couple to my site, but when I go to
>> test them with my browser, they won't stream. Instead my computer will
>> download the entire file first, as if it was a .wav or something.
>
    Our site has RealAudio, but for streaming, it requires an extra fee to our
ISP. Since we use such short excerpts (c. a minute or so), the download
time is only about ten seconds. I know that a lot of ISPs offer free
streaming, though. Follow the suggestion of checking out the RealAudio
site, and send an email to your ISP asking about their services.

Rob DeNunzio
Hi-Fi Mundo
http://www.teleport.com/~hifim

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Yves Dewulf <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Winter & Winter releases in the US
Date: 22 Jun 1998 10:51:42 +0200

>Hey everyone,
>
>In case anyone is wondering what Winter & Winter releases are/will be
>available in the States, here's a list from CDNow :

 This one is out in Europe for quite some time and is quite enjoyable:

    Uri Caine: Wagner E Venezia

 This record features more straightforward chamber-music translations
 of the most famous ouvertures by Wagner.
 The orchestra includes Eric Friedlander on Cello, Mark Feldman
 violin,Uri Caine piano (and also Italian accordeon-player, a second
 violin-player whose name I forgot and I think,
 Drew Gress on bass, not sure)

 It is a live-performance at the St.Marco-place in Venice
 and has a lot of background-noise (people talking, the clocktower
 chiming at the end of one of the pieces). At first this sounds very
 disturbing but then it starts to contribute to  live-atmosphere in a
 rather strange way.

 If you didn't like Wagner because it was way too bombastic,
 maybe you check out this!

 YVes

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject:       Re: Little, Caine, Herbie
Date: 22 Jun 1998 11:19:26 GMT0BST

Jamie -

The VERY BEST Booker Little album is the last one he made, just a
month or two before his tragically early death: it has been released
as Victory And Sorrow and as Looking Ahead, but has just re-appeared
on CD as Booker Little And Friend, on Bethlehem, with two alternate
takes of the piece titled (on this issue) Molotone Music (tho'
they're incorrectly listed as alternates of Matilde), tho' previously
titled Looking Ahead, and referred to by the producer or engineer as
"X" (!) ...

It continues the sextet format of Out Front, and although
Dolphy and Roach are absent, I think the music is better
realised ... it was these two albums which Douglas drew upon
for In Our Lifetime

Also very much worth hearing is the music from the Five Spot with
Dolphy & Co.  He made quite a few albums with Max Roach ... but
the late (for Little) Percussion Bitter Sweet is the best one I know

My first exposure to Uri Caine was the Douglas album, but I can't
recommend him enough: preceding Toys on JMT was Sphere Music
(1992 trio and quartet/quintet with Don Byron, Gary Thomas, Graham
Haynes), which is well up to scratch ...

Finally, does anyone know of a Ron Carter trio album with Hancock and
Cobham??

Sean Wilkie



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rich Williams <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Help!! (Not really Zorn-related)
Date: 22 Jun 1998 05:50:23 -0500

Circle9 wrote:
>
> Is anyone on the list at all familiar with posting RealAudio tracks to
> the Web? I've been trying to post a couple to my site, but when I go to
> test them with my browser, they won't stream. Instead my computer will
> download the entire file first, as if it was a .wav or something. It's
> not my browser- it streams Real media just fine off of anyone else's
> site. I'm using Frontpage 97 for Web design. Anyone have any ideas?

To get Real Audio to stream from a http server without the extra cgi
charges:

First(a bit obvious, I know) upload the mysong.ra file

then create a generic text document containing only the following text:

http://Your.site.address/yoursong.ra

Name this text file: yoursong.ram

upload the text file to your server

the link on your web page should refer to the text file

when someone clicks on the link to the text file

the text file will call up the .ra file which should then stream.

This is how I did the page at
http://pages.cthome.net/richwilliams/Soundfiles.html

Hope this helps

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Alan E Kayser <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Winter & Winter releases in the US
Date: 22 Jun 1998 08:44:13 -0400

Yves Dewulf wrote:

> >Hey everyone,
> >
> >In case anyone is wondering what Winter & Winter releases are/will be
>
> >available in the States, here's a list from CDNow :
>
>  This one is out in Europe for quite some time and is quite enjoyable:
>
>         Uri Caine: Wagner E Venezia
>
>  This record features more straightforward chamber-music translations
>  of the most famous ouvertures by Wagner.
>  The orchestra includes Eric Friedlander on Cello, Mark Feldman
>  violin,Uri Caine piano (and also Italian accordeon-player, a second
>  violin-player whose name I forgot and I think,
>  Drew Gress on bass, not sure)
>
>  It is a live-performance at the St.Marco-place in Venice
>  and has a lot of background-noise (people talking, the clocktower
>  chiming at the end of one of the pieces). At first this sounds very
>  disturbing but then it starts to contribute to  live-atmosphere in a
>  rather strange way.
>
>  If you didn't like Wagner because it was way too bombastic,
>  maybe you check out this!
>
>  YVes

This will not be available in the US for some time, as W & W has just
started their association with Allegro.  The schedule looks like two or
three releases a month.  However, a few lucky Philadelphians may be the
fortunate ones to get their hands on a copy.  Uri will be signing the
Mahler disk on June 24 at Classical Choice, 122 S 21st St, and promised
to have a few copies of the Wagner on hand.  For those of you that know
Uri, you will quickly recognize the Wagner as a sendup of the music,
respectful but playful.

Alan Kayser

>
>
> -




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brent Burton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Recent Goodies and otherwise
Date: 22 Jun 1998 11:55:18 -0400 (EDT)

On Sun, 21 Jun 1998, Brian Olewnick wrote:

> DEREK BAILEY/MIN XIAO FEN    VIPER            AVANT

> As much as I love Min's work in traditional Chinese music (check out
> her fine disc on Asphodel), I just don't find her a compelling free
> improvisor and, as many have before her, I think she bends too readily
> to Mr. Bailey (who I don't think is in top form here either). He makes
> several nods towards her style, she follows for a moment, then
> "retreats" into some fairly bland improv. I'd much rather have heard
> Bailey being Bailey, Min being Min, and seeing if they'd meet
> somewhere. Not terrible, mind you, but nowhere near as scintillating as
> one would have hoped.

i wasn't blown away by _viper_ but it's definitely a nice disc.
excellent recording quality.  i would say that bailey adopts an asian
bent as much as i think min xiao fen tries to sound like bailey.  my initial
impression was how complementary the instruments and playing styles
sound, especially how easily bailey's glass-like harmonics fit into the
eastern folk tradition.  not *the* definitive bailey recording, but a very
cool addition to his discography.

b

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Little, Caine, Herbie
Date: 22 Jun 1998 12:24:58 -0400 (EDT)


You're not referring to the Milestone album Carter made about 1980 with
Hancock and Tony Williams are you? If so, I have it on vinyl and can look
up the particulars on it if you're interested.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]




On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, DR S WILKIE wrote:
>
> Finally, does anyone know of a Ron Carter trio album with Hancock and
> Cobham??
>
> Sean Wilkie
>
>
>
> -
>
>

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Bailey/Min, Musica Transonic/Haino
Date: 22 Jun 1998 14:33:56 -0500





David Keffer wrote:

>A recent release that shows a much better collaboration is the new disc
>"Incubation" by Musica Transonic with Keiji Haino on PSF. On this disc they
>put together a nice mixture of Musica Transonic's volume and Keiji Haino's
>unique vocals and guitar.

     I've been curious about this album myself. I have a couple of the
     earlier Musica Transonic releases (I don't recall the titles or wasn't
     able to translate the Greek!) and, while exciting in at least a
     surface sense, they left me unsatisfied. I've had a similar reaction
     with some other bands in this genre (High Rise, Vajra) which, IMHO,
     lack the depth achieved by Fushitsusha in, say, 'Pathetique'. Love to
     hear more details on 'Incubation' (Admittedly, a little bit of Haino's
     vocal stylings go a long way with me).

     There's a solo bass album on PSF by someone whose name, damn it,
     escapes me at the moment--begins with 'M'--that I've heard great
     things about. If anyone, miraculously, can figure out which release
     I'm referring to and can provide a review, please do.

     Hazily,

     Brian Olewnick



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: ScottRussell <[e-mail]>
Subject: Musica Transonic etc
Date: 22 Jun 1998 20:02:52 +0100


    Brian I think the artist you refer to is Motohara  Yoshizawa .

    I agree that Musica Transonic and High Rise are probably not as
'deep' as Fushitsusha but I certainly wouldn't want to be without them.
I find all the PSF MT albums to be exhiliratingly OTT in a kind of
everyone-falls-down-the-stairs kind of way. Perhaps they make more sense
if you've seen them live. I caught them a couple of years back and they
were blistering. Imagine Naked City stripped down to just guitar, bass
and drums and then have them all play flat out all the time. Righteous.

    I can't comment on much of High Rise but I'd certainly recommend
their live album to anyone who needs to do some wallpaper stripping in a
hurry!!

    Scott Russell


>      I've been curious about this album myself. I have a couple of the
>
>      earlier Musica Transonic releases (I don't recall the titles or
> wasn't
>      able to translate the Greek!) and, while exciting in at least a
>      surface sense, they left me unsatisfied. I've had a similar
> reaction
>      with some other bands in this genre (High Rise, Vajra) which,
> IMHO,
>      lack the depth achieved by Fushitsusha in, say, 'Pathetique'.
> Love to
>      hear more details on 'Incubation' (Admittedly, a little bit of
> Haino's
>      vocal stylings go a long way with me).
>
>      There's a solo bass album on PSF by someone whose name, damn it,
>      escapes me at the moment--begins with 'M'--that I've heard great
>      things about. If anyone, miraculously, can figure out which
> release
>      I'm referring to and can provide a review, please do.
>
>      Hazily,
>
>      Brian Olewnick
>
>
>
> -
>
>

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: John Hawkes died...
Date: 22 Jun 1998 12:03:17 -0700


    Just learnt that John Hawkes died (around the same time as
Frank). A great novelist that will be dearly missed. Always amazed
that he wrote a novel such as THE CANNIBAL when he was only 22 years
old. A true and unique voice in American contemporary litterature.

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Recent Goodies and otherwise
Date: 22 Jun 1998 12:07:42 -0700


On Sun, 21 Jun 1998 10:37:14 -0400  Brian Olewnick wrote:
>
> GAVIN BRYARS        A MAN IN A ROOM, GAMBLING    POINT
>
> The title pieces (five are presented out of the ten which make up the
> entire work) are rather unique. Intended as radio inserts similar to BBC
> radio shipping reports (our British subscribers might have a better idea
> of the context), they consist of an English-speaking, Spanish-accented
> narrator describing various card-sharping techniques accompanied by
> moody, often poignant music for Bryars' small ensemble. It's often very
> funny, sometimes a bit oddly sad. Of the remaining pieces, 'Les
> Fiancailles' from 1983 begins in the same territory as Bryars'
> 'Hommages' from around the same time (an old favorite of mine) and
> wanders very close to that old Zornian standby, Messaien's 'Louange a
> l'Eternite....'. Very nice. The other two works, 'The North Shore' and
> 'The South Downs' stick to that, for me, ho-hum area he's been
> inhabiting in recent years. Pretty, but kinda blah.
>
> I understand Point is planning to release the original Obscure recording
> of 'Jesus' Blood...' and '...Titanic'. Those who only know these pieces
> from the recent recordings (as well as those of us with the eroding
> vinyl) would do well to pick this up; a desert island disc. I'd add,
> though, that I find the 1990 recording of 'Titanic' on Les Disques de
> Crepuscule to be even better than the original, but I'm not sure how
> difficult this is to come by.

Wow! Never heard that Les Disques du Crepuscule issued another interpre-
tation of THE SINKING OF THE TITANIC. How could I have missed that?

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject:  Re: Bailey/Min, Musica Transonic/Haino
Date: 22 Jun 1998 15:17:20 EDT


In a message dated 6/22/98 2:49:01 PM, [e-mail] wrote:

<<>A recent release that shows a much better collaboration is the new disc

>"Incubation" by Musica Transonic with Keiji Haino on PSF. On this disc they

>put together a nice mixture of Musica Transonic's volume and Keiji Haino's

>unique vocals and guitar.



     I've been curious about this album myself. I have a couple of the

     earlier Musica Transonic releases (I don't recall the titles or wasn't

     able to translate the Greek!) and, while exciting in at least a

     surface sense, they left me unsatisfied. I've had a similar reaction

     with some other bands in this genre (High Rise, Vajra) which, IMHO,

     lack the depth achieved by Fushitsusha in, say, 'Pathetique'. Love to

     hear more details on 'Incubation' (Admittedly, a little bit of Haino's

     vocal stylings go a long way with me).



     There's a solo bass album on PSF by someone whose name, damn it,

     escapes me at the moment--begins with 'M'--that I've heard great

     things about. If anyone, miraculously, can figure out which release

     I'm referring to and can provide a review, please do.>>

I just finished listening to Incubation for the first time and frankly, I was
underwhelmed. I'm a huge Haino fan and I like some of the MT/Mainliner/Acid
Mothers stuff but this one just doesn't seem to work. there doesn't seem to be
much meshing between the two styles, just Haino's vocals over the top of a MT
rave-up that isn't as wild as a lot of their other recorded work. I'd say give
this one a miss. Haino's collaborations with other "name" artists don't seem
to connect with me like much of his solo work or his Fushitsusha material
does.

the Greek lettering on the MT records, by the way, can be translated by a
simple letter substitution, english for greek. if you look at the covers with
this in mind, you'll quickly see that the second and third "translate" to A
Pilgrim's Solace and Orthodox Jazz.

your bass player is probably motoharu yoshizawa. I haven't heard any of his
solo work, though. he has a bunch of solo records on PSF.

I haven't heard the Bailey/Xiao-Fen duets yet, but I'm sure I'll have an
opinion on those soon enough.

Jon

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Winter & Winter releases in the US
Date: 22 Jun 1998 14:23:21 -0500


>Anyone can share the impressions about other Motian records? I'm really
>eager to learn more.

I can't get enough of those trio albums (but there's a catch).  I like the
live at the Villiage Vanguard albums (on JMT and W&W) and the one called
"Trioism."  Also the Live in Tokyo one is great.  I have to say that I like
the Frisell solos the best, although, I was tempted to check out a Lovano
disc the other day, but I didn't.  I got so excited I picked up an older
one on Soul Note (I think that's the label, it's at home and I'm at work)
but I didn't like it as much as the later ones.  I think I tend to like the
ones later than 1992 best.  Give 'em ten years and they're fine... I also
got an older record called "Tribute" that I enjoy.  I believe it's form the
'70s.  The Electric Bebop Band ones are also pretty good.

Any Lovano suggestions?  I saw a used one at the local store with Dave
Holland and I almost listened to it but I didn't have time... What are any
impressions of Lovano albums from a Motian trio standpoint?

Dan



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Downtown Lullaby error
Date: 22 Jun 1998 14:30:02 -0500

So far the Depth Of Field recordings (all two of them) have some small
problems.  Is it that they were made in haste or is it just carelessness?
I posted before that on the "Euclid's Nighmare" disc there are repeated
tracks (7 and 18, for example).  There's this mislabeling on the new one,
too.  What's up?  I like the music but the package just seems a bit thrown
together.

Is this label going to only release 100% improv discs or what?  I don't
really mean that but so far that's all there is.

Dan


At 1:04 PM -0500 6/20/98, Charles Gillett wrote:
>The liner notes for my copy of _Downtown Lullaby_ have the timings
>for the first track and the last track switched.  "484 Broome" is
>actually 5:42, and "1 Morton St (Downtown Lullaby)" is 9:00.  All
>the other timings are correct.



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Toby Dodds <[e-mail]>
Subject: Frith, Masaoka & Ochs (long)
Date: 22 Jun 1998 12:43:48 -0700 (PDT)

Here's a slightly modified copy of the press release that was sent out,
not long ago, in support of this landmark tour!  Enjoy,
:)
Toby


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:

THREE MUSICAL INNOVATORS FORM UNIQUE TRIO:

FRITH, MASAOKA & OCHS

FEATURING:
FRED FRITH: GUITARS
MIYA MASAOKA: KOTO
LARRY OCHS: SAXOPHONES

WILL BE PERFORMING THE FOLLOWING DATES
06/25 - DuMaurier Jazz Festival,  Vancouver, BC
06/26 - OK Hotel Ballroom,  Seattle, WA  w/guest Wayne Horvitz in 2nd set
06/27 - Institute of Contemporary Art,  Portland, OR
06/29 - Luna Park,  Los Angeles, CA
06/30 - Yoshi's,  Oakland, CA
07/02 - Oak Park Unity Temple,  Chicago, IL
07/03 - Oak Park Unity Temple,  Chicago, IL


FIRST US TOUR BY FRED FRITH SINCE 1988!

This concert will feature one of the seminal figures in
improvisation-meets-rock-meets-new music: Fred Frith.   Along with
founding the legendary English band Henry Cow and the seminal improv-rock
trio Skeleton Crew, Frith was at the epicenter of the Downtown Lower East
Side music scene in New York along with John Zorn and others in the eighties.

He is joined by Miya Masaoka playing the Japanese koto, who has toured
with Frith in Europe, leads a trio with Reggie Workman and Andrew
Cyrille, and is described by the New York press as a "world-class
innovator with uncompromising musicality."

Rounding out the trio is Larry Ochs, whose group Rova Saxophone Quartet
has influenced a generation of saxophonists in technique, form and
compositional content.  Ochs has performed in virtually every major
festival of jazz and improvised music.  His ferocity and virtuosity on
various saxophones has led him to perform and/or record with many artists
including Henry Kaiser, Fred Frith, Alvin Curran, John Zorn, Wayne
Horvitz, John Lindberg, Dave Douglas, Leo Smith, Lisle Ellis, Anthony
Braxton & George Lewis.

FRED FRITH
BRIEF BIOGRAPHY

Fred Frith, composer, improviser and multi-instrumentalist, has been a
fixture for more than twenty-five years in the area where rock music and
new music meet.  Co-founder of the British underground band Henry Cow
(1968-78), he moved to New York in the late seventies and came into
contact with many of the musicians with whom he has since been
associated, including John Zorn, Ikue Mori, Tom Cora, Zeena Parkins and
Bob Ostertag.

Fourteen years in New York gave rise to groups like Massacre (with Bill
Laswell and Fred Mahler), Skeleton Crew (with Tom and Zeena), and Keep
the Dog, a sextet performing an extensive repertoire of Frith's compositions.

In the eighties he began to write for dance, film, and theatre, and this
in turn has led to his composing for Rova Sax Quartet, Ensemble Modern,
Asko Ensemble, and a number of other groups, including his own critically
acclaimed Guitar Quartet.  Best known world-wide as an improvising
guitarist, Frith has also performed in a variety of other contexts,
playing bass in John Zorn's Naked City, violin in Lars Hollmer's Looping
Home Orchestra, and guitar on recordings ranging from The Residents and
Rene Lussier to Brian Eno and Amy Denio.

Frith is the subject of the award-winning documentary film Step Across
the Border.  He lives in Germany with photographer Heike Liss and their
children Finn and Lucia.


Further information:    www.fredfrith.com


MIYA MASAOKA
BRIEF BIOGRAPHY

Miya Masaoka works simultaneously in the varied musical worlds of jazz,
Western classical music, electronic music, traditional Japanese music and
free improvisation, and is currently the director of an ensemble of
traditional Japanese court music, the San Francisco Gagaku Society.  She
has studied Japanese music with court musician Suenobu Togi, and holds
music degrees from San Francisco State University, a Masters Degree in
Composition from Mills College and certificates from the Chikushi gakko
school.

Her debut recording for solo koto, Compositions/Improvisations received
critical acclaim in Europe and the United States, and made several "Top
Ten" lists, including CODA, The Bay Guardian (from two different critics)
and the East Bay Express.

She has performed extensively in Japan and the US and also has toured in
India and Canada; both solo and with a wide variety of musicians and
traditions.  Collaborations include work with Pharoah Sanders, L.
Subramaniam, The Berlin Rias Dorchester Symphony and the Berlin Opera,
Rova Saxophone Quartet, Steve Coleman, Mark Izu, Francis Wong, George
Lewis, henry Kaiser, Fred Frith, Wadada Leo Smith, Rohan de Saram
(Arditti String Quartet), James Newton and many others.

Her Eastern sense of time and space, multiplicities of aesthetics and
improvisational skills have distinguished Masaoka as a new virtuoso and
innovator on the contemporary landscape.


LAWRENCE OCHS
BRIEF BIOGRAPHY

Lawrence Ochs, composer and saxophonist, has been working in the field of
improvised music since 1973.  Mr. Ochs' professional activities have,
since 1978, been primarily centered around the Rova Saxophone Quartet,
which has played over twenty European tours and numerous concerts
throughout the US and Canada.  Ochs has also been the executive director
of the Rova non-profit organization since 1985.  In this capacity, his
accomplishments include producing the acclaimed PreEchoes series,
involving Rova in collaborations with other artists such as the Ganelin
Trio from USSR, Anthony Braxton, John Zorn, Terry Riley, Fred Frith,
Henry Kaiser, Lawrence Butch Morris, Alvin Curran, Chris Brown, and San
Francisco Taiko Dojo.

In 1986, Ochs formed the group Room, a quartet of saxophone, piano,
computer electronics and percussion.  In 1990, he and keyboardist Wayne
Horvitz formed The International Creative Music Orchestra for the Pan
American Goodwill Games in Seattle with further performances at the
Vancouver DuMaurier International Jazz Festival.  In 1991, he helped
organize the Glenn Spearman Double Trio, a sextet with Glenn Spearman's
trio and the three musicians in Room.  In 1993, he created a nine-piece
group to perform a specially commisioned work for Antwerpen '93
Festival.  Also in 1993, he organized a saxophone octet (including the
Rova quartet) to perform his music at festivals in Austria and Germany.
In 1994, he joined with Lisle Ellis and Donald Robinson to form the
ongoing trio, What We Live.  In 1995, he was a guest soloist with the
George Lewis Creative Orchestra at Mills College in Oakland, California.
Also that year, he performed and recorded with India Cooke's group Red
Handed.  He has also recorded and/or performed with ensembles led by John
Goldberg, Fred Frith, Henry Kaiser and others.

Ochs has composed some two dozen compositions for saxophone quartet as
well as other pieces for mixed ensembles.  He recently composed the music
for the film Letters Not About Love which won best documentary film award
at the 1998 South by Southwest Film Festival.




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Grassy Knoll III
Date: 22 Jun 1998 14:53:48 -0500

I know this may be a bit off subject but I would like some recommendations.

My roomate picked up "Grassy Knoll III" a couple of weeks ago (probably
because of the names Ellery Eskelin and Thurston Moore) and I have been
listening to it for the last couple of days.  I really like it!  Another
friend said he listened to another Grassy Knoll release and he didn't like
it.  Hmmmm.... Anyway, what I am interested in would be recommendations
that are in the vein of the following artists/discs: Grassy Knoll III, DJ
Shadow, APC Tracks, Vol. 2 (Laswell is invlolved in this one), parts of
DD's Sanctuary (you may know what I mean), basically jazzy-ish stuff with a
heavy beat in there sometimes...  Any ideas?

Thanks,
Dan



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: WhatI'dLikeToKnow
Date: 22 Jun 1998 13:05:49 -0700 (PDT)

CANADIAN Copyright law now prohibits the broadcast or recording of a
performance without the knowledge of the performer - ie. it is no longer
enough to have the producer's/venue's permission - the performers must
consent. Despite valid arguments that performers will ALWAYS be required
to waive these rights if they ever want to gig, and that only those with
significant bargaining power (money) will benefit from the right, at least
performers will know of the broadcast/recording and have the right to turn
down the gig... as far as I know the US hasn't followed suit.

Cappy D'Angelo
Student at Law - Intellectual Property
Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering
Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion
Victoria, B.C., CANADA








-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Marc Downing <[e-mail]>
Subject: masada string trio
Date: 22 Jun 1998 16:08:58 -0400

Does anyone know if Greg Cohen, Erik Friedlander and Mark Feldman have
recorded anything other than Issachar as a trio?

Thanks,

Marc



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Vancouver Jazzfest
Date: 22 Jun 1998 13:20:54 -0700 (PDT)

Already checked out Zony Mash w/ Dr. Umezu(!!), Dave Douglas/Tiny Bell
Trio, and Willem Breuker Kollektief ...  looking forward to
Frith/Ochs/Masaoka, Ben Goldberg's Junk Genius ...   Any other Zornies in
Vancouver right now? (M.W.?)

Cappy D'Angelo
Student at Law - Intellectual Property
Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering
Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion
VANCOUVER, BC, CANADA









-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "m. rizzi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Mike Patton's Fantomas
Date: 22 Jun 1998 14:22:47 -0700 (PDT)


I am so lame, I missed last nights debut of Mike Pattons
new group Fantomas. Did anyone go? Description/review
appreciated.

mike

--
[e-mail] -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com
                   "Another nerd with a soulpatch"
-------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 -------

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Chris Bar{ett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mike Patton's Fantomas
Date: 22 Jun 1998 17:50:14 -0400

Didn't see it (or hear it) but, I read on MTV's site (gotta keep up with my
Spice Girls news) and one other that he puzzled, befuddled and confused
most of the crowd.  It was apparently some sort of metallish-improv.  It
seems many fans left the show early or midway through, a few screaming
their displeasure during the few quiet moments.

-Chris

At 2:22 PM 6/22/98, m. rizzi wrote:
>I am so lame, I missed last nights debut of Mike Pattons
>new group Fantomas. Did anyone go? Description/review
>appreciated.
>
>mike
>
>--
>[e-mail] -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com
>                   "Another nerd with a soulpatch"
>-------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 -------
>
>-



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Artur Nowak" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Grassy Knoll III (not recommended)
Date: 22 Jun 1998 23:54:14 +0200

> I know this may be a bit off subject but I would like some
> recommendations.

I saw this band live yesterday on Warsaw Summer Jazz Days festival, and
it was one of the worst performances I ever saw. These guys don't know
how to play instruments!!! It was loud and boring, nothing to really
listen to. My friend was repeating "fuck, fuck, fuck" during the whole
performance, because it was unbelievable. Accidental dissonances all the
time, real amateurs who should shut up and learn how to play the fucking
instruments. Lost money (the worst point ever, but they diserved it).

     __________________________________________________________________
     Artur Nowak [[e-mail]]
     www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/default.htm - Discography of Bill Frisell




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Grassy Knoll III (not recommended)
Date: 22 Jun 1998 17:03:01 -0500

I can see how that may have happened but I have to say that I really enjoy
the disc... Hmmm...

Dan


At 4:54 PM -0500 6/22/98, Artur Nowak wrote:
>> I know this may be a bit off subject but I would like some
>> recommendations.
>
>I saw this band live yesterday on Warsaw Summer Jazz Days festival, and
>it was one of the worst performances I ever saw. These guys don't know
>how to play instruments!!! It was loud and boring, nothing to really
>listen to. My friend was repeating "fuck, fuck, fuck" during the whole
>performance, because it was unbelievable. Accidental dissonances all the
>time, real amateurs who should shut up and learn how to play the fucking
>instruments. Lost money (the worst point ever, but they diserved it).
>
>     __________________________________________________________________
>     Artur Nowak [[e-mail]]
>     www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/default.htm - Discography of Bill Frisell




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: David Keffer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Motoharu Yoshizawa
Date: 22 Jun 1998 18:17:55 -0400

Brian Olewnick wrote:
>
>     There's a solo bass album on PSF by someone whose name, damn it,
>     escapes me at the moment--begins with 'M'--that I've heard great
>     things about. If anyone, miraculously, can figure out which release
>     I'm referring to and can provide a review, please do.
>
The bass player you are thinking of his probably Motoharu (given name)
Yoshizawa
(surname).  He plays on about 10 discs on the PSF label.  What I have heard
with
him is the 2 cd's he did with Mikami Kan and Keiji Haino _Live in the First
Year of
the Heisei_  volumes 1 and 2, 1990.  These 2 discs feature Haino on guitar
and
Mikami on guitar and voice, so if you don't think Vajra hits the spot, then
you
probably will feel the same way about these 2 discs.  The only other
Yoshizawa disc
I have heard is "Angels have Passed", PSF 22, which features Yoshizawa on a
five-string
bass of his own construction, in an improv trio including violin and piano.
 Yoshizawa's
bass is the featured instrument and, if you imagine that you would like
bass/violin/piano
improv, then this disc will not disappoint, because it's a fantastic work
in this
genre.

I haven't heard the Solo Yoshizawa discs on PSF from the 60's or 70's.
Also haven't
heard the freeform bass duo disc he did with Barre Philips but I bet that
is great.

David K.



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Holmes <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mike Patton's Fantomas
Date: 22 Jun 1998 15:34:47 -0700 (PDT)


The article in this weekends Chronicle made it sound like they expected
people to go running and screaming. They also said they have been fighting
off A&R guys left and right. The article made it sounds like it was a
Naked city type of heavy metal band. I didn't make it to the show either,
but I can imagine guys in Megadeath t-shirts and long hair running from
Slim's with their hands on their ears. This ain't your older brothers
Metal Band. The article interview each of the members and stressed their
hatred of corporate radio rock. No surprise there, but it was still funny
to hear. The article will probably be online sometime this week.
Bummed I missed it, but they did mention a cd being realesed sometime next
year, and enough material for two.
Sounded fun, please chime in if you actually saw it. They'll be in NY
soon. Love to hear some feedback.

Ciao,
Brian


On Mon, 22 Jun 1998, Chris Bar{ett wrote:

> Didn't see it (or hear it) but, I read on MTV's site (gotta keep up with my
> Spice Girls news) and one other that he puzzled, befuddled and confused
> most of the crowd.  It was apparently some sort of metallish-improv.  It
> seems many fans left the show early or midway through, a few screaming
> their displeasure during the few quiet moments.
>
> -Chris
>
> At 2:22 PM 6/22/98, m. rizzi wrote:
> >I am so lame, I missed last nights debut of Mike Pattons
> >new group Fantomas. Did anyone go? Description/review
> >appreciated.
> >
> >mike
> >
> >--
> >[e-mail] -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com
> >                   "Another nerd with a soulpatch"
> >-------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 -------
> >
> >-
>
>
>
> -
>
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "David J. Keffer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Musica Transonic + Haino
Date: 22 Jun 1998 19:45:52 -0400

 <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
>I just finished listening to Incubation for the first time and frankly, I was
>underwhelmed. I'm a huge Haino fan and I like some of the MT/Mainliner/Acid
>Mothers stuff but this one just doesn't seem to work. there doesn't seem
to be
>much meshing between the two styles, just Haino's vocals over the top of a MT
>rave-up that isn't as wild as a lot of their other recorded work. I'd say
give
>this one a miss. Haino's collaborations with other "name" artists don't seem
>to connect with me like much of his solo work or his Fushitsusha material
>does.
>

Well, I have to disagree with this.  The Musica Transonic and Haino
collaboration works for me because I think that there is careful
interplay between Haino's voice and the rest of the instruments,
especially on the first two tracks.  My only regret with this album is
that Haino sings on only 3 of the 7 tracks.
As for comparing "Incubation" to Fushitsusha, well...
I agree this record doesn't have anything like the impact of a
choice Fushitsusha record, but that's not saying a lot.  Fushitsusha is
an extraordinary phenomenon; it's unrealistic to think that
everything Haino puts his finger in is going to turn to gold.
(The same could be said for anyone else, including Zorn.)  ;)

David "Let's keep a level head and give it a second listen" K.

p.s.  Two new Fushitsusha records in the second wave of 4 Haino cds
coming out on Tokuma Records June 24, 1998.  June 24 as in Wednesday!

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Carlson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mike Patton's Fantomas
Date: 22 Jun 1998 19:33:37 -0400

I received this fan review of the first show in San Fran on another list.
It reads...............

Reply-To: [e-mail] (Chris Rogers)

  -jun 18 thr Fantomas at Slim's, San Francisco  $12advance/$14door all
ages  8pm/9pm

  I got to Slim's around 8:30pm, people outside were talking about how the
show was sold out.  A weathered man standing by the entrance tried to sell
me some half a gram of hash.  The security guys at Slim's were trying to
not let any cameras into the club, but judging from flashes during the
performance, a few got through the pat-down.  On the big screen rolled down
in front of the stage, old-skool Ultraman movies were being shown.  There
were quite a few Bungle & FNM shirts floating around.  I worked my way up
as close to the stage as I could & got within two bodies of the stage.
Slim's is a great venue, perhaps the very best in SF; medium size, great
stage and consistent kick-ass bands playing there.
  I was suprised when the screen rolled up and 'twas Buckethead + DJ Disk
opening.  They've been playing around the Bay Area quite a bit for the past
couple months.  They traffic in one-on-one instrumental-solo duels of the
highest caliber; Buckethead on guitars and DJ Disk on turntables.  It's
fuckin' amazing to watch them square off.  Check out www.bucketheadland.com
for a taste of his shtuff.  They tore it up - with just a drum machine to
lay down a groove, the two ripped out furious intricate solos to drop yer
jaw.  High-Quality entertainment.  Buckethead did the robot dance and also
demonstrated his skill with the nunchucks over the course of the set.  He
alsohanded out a bunch of comics to the audience.  I got an X-Men comic.
Maximum Bob stared at the audience from under his cowboy hat.  This is his
role, he does it at every Buckethead show I've been to.  He does it well.
(Bob has a credit for backing vocals on the Bungle self-titled album.  I'd
like to know exactly what he did since when he's onstage he never speaks.)
The crowd dug 'em.
  Fantomas took a very long time to set up - half of "The Nightmare Before
Christmas".  A group of people cheered randomly at the happenings on the
screen.   A few guys peeked beneath the screen to watch the roadies set up.
Finally the screen rolled up & the show began.  Dave's huge drumset and
Mike's bank of equipment bookended the stage, with Buzzo & Trevor in
between.  They set it up that way so they could have eye contact I suppose.
The best way to describe the sound of the band is "bursts".  There is no
song structure per se; more like a ridiculously slow part followed by a a
ridiculously fast part, repeat, lasting about 1 and a half minutes.  It's
closer to Mike's solo work than Bungle or The Melvins.  Every once in a
while the band would threaten to drop into a groove and produce some
semblance of a cohesive piece, then it would almost immediately be
destroyed by the band flailing at their instruments as hard as possible.
Now this isn't a bad thing, but it gets really fucking annoying when you
expect so much from these guys.  Besides, Anal Cunt does that for a living.
I expected intracacies, fucked-up tempo shifts and VARIETY from these
guys, but instead they're doing this extreme noise terror trip. There were
about 4 instances during the show when Dave would lay down a kick-ass fast
punk/Slayer drumtrack and a song fragment would form atop it for perhaps 10
seconds before being destroyed.  I found myself at times more apt to read
my X-Men comic than watch what was happening on stage two feet away from
me.  But... but... but... I got hope in these guys... hey, it's their first
time and they're just mucking around having a good time and it doesn't
really matter as long as they're enjoying themselves right?  If they
record, it should be interesting to see what they come up with.

-random chunks from the show:
  *The band was working off of arcanely scribbled notes for each "song",
(not using the mic and just to the band, sez Mike: "ok, number 21.
ready?") they went off of numbers and each song would take up a page or
two.  Mike paid the most attention to his notes, set on a music stand in
front of his equipment.  If they weren't being included in the current
exchange, Buzzo or Trevor might squat to check out their notes on the
floor.
  *There were no words in the songs.  Mike wasn't kidding about that in the
SF Examiner interview.
  *There were two styles of t-shirts on sale.  One white; with a series of
eyes (drawn) in boxes beneath the name across the chest, the other black;
with the name written in big Death Metal calligraphy across the chest and
an evil-looking head for the "O".  Both very cool.  They were $15 each.
  *Though it looked like they really didn't have a set course, you got the
vibe that the band was havin' a good time up there.  They were all smiles.
  *Mike kept tabs on on the band, asking quite a few times "Everyone ok?"
off-mic to see where the guys were at, or making sure they were all on the
same song.
  *After one song, Mike said with a grin off-mic; "Interesting
interpretation, boys!"
  *Only one comment from a heckler turned Mike's head - in between songs
someguy yelled "Hey Mike!  You finally found something you're shitty at:
producing!!"  Mike spun around and blew a kiss in the guy's direction.  The
audience laughed.

  At the very end of the show, right before their last song, Mike addressed
the audience.  He thanked everyone sincerely for showing up, mentioned that
it was their first show and said that he thought the next song would be
their Big Hit.  When the audience laughed, he said "a normal band would
give you one hit, but we've given you like 30 hits here tonight!"  The last
song sounded the same as the rest.  Then the band went offstage to do the
whole encore bit.  I pushed my way up so that I was front and center, right
up against the stage.  I set my comic down on it.  A guy to my right tried
to take Mike's thick sheaf of notes off of the music stand.  An onstage
roadie grabbed his hand and I grabbed his wrist and the roadie wrangled the
notes away from him.  The roadie then reshuffled the notes and set them
back on the music stand,  The band came back out after a bit and Mike
introduced the encore song as one that had been a Big Hit back in the
1930s.  Buzzo smiled and said to the other guys "Ready boys?  Ready men?".
They tear-assed through it, but it had words and everything.  (If someone
could identify what song that was, they would be cool.)  They finished, the
crowd applauded.  Some guy jumped onstage, kissed Mike on the back of the
head(he didn't flinch) and was pushed back into the crowd by the same
roadie.  The crowd began to disperse.  Trey Spruance was wandering around
the audience area, looking as scummy as ever.  People were talking to him
and taking pictures with him & he's a super-nice guy; answering all their
queries, signing tickets and shakin' hands all around.  I couldn't think of
what to say, so I asked him if there was going to be a full-on Secret
Chiefs 3 junket in the Bay Area in the forseeable future (as opposed to the
abbreviated show in the backroom at Mission Records 2 months ago).  He said
that it's kinda hard to get the whole band together 'cause everyone lives
in different places, but he said they just came off their Aussie tour and
it was great.  Then he said that the main thing that he's focusing on right
now is the new Bungle album (which was going to be my next question, so I
was glad that he led into it!).  I asked him about the new Bungle album
and... and... I completely forgot what he said.  I told him how much I dug
his work, and he was like "thanks, man!".  He's a super-cool guy.  I shook
his hand and then headed for the exit.  Talked to Jeremy from the CV list
on the way out.  He was suprised that I had shaved most of my hair off
since last I saw him.  Then I drove home, then I wrote this, then I went to
sleep(presumably).  On a scale of 1 to 4 I don't think I'm going to bother
trying to rate this experience.

  Sorry I wrote so much, if you have any feedback it may take a long time
for me to respond 'cause I'm heading off to Europe for a month on Saturday.
So you'll have to tell me how the Sunday show goes.  'til next time...
warm pizza and ripe papayas to you...
         - c h r i s                                    [4:07am]








-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Nils Jacobson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Grassy Knoll III
Date: 22 Jun 1998 20:32:02 +0100

Dan Hewins <[e-mail]> writes:
>
> I know this may be a bit off subject but I would like some recommendations.
>
> My roomate picked up "Grassy Knoll III" a couple of weeks ago (probably
> because of the names Ellery Eskelin and Thurston Moore) and I have been
> listening to it for the last couple of days.  I really like it!

The other Grassy Knoll albums are close to the level of III.  Go get
Positive, the second release.  It's a nice tidbit.

Something maybe close is Ben Neill.  He has a couple albums out.  The one
I have is called Tryptical.  Beat-heavy but with instrumental flair.

As for the live performances, I am fairly certain these guys know how to
play their instruments.  They've been together for a while now.  It's
possible (amazing though it may sound) for a musician to have a bad day,
or a group of musicians not to be together.  This particular group is not
that used to being a live band, their work has mostly been in the
studio.  Part of the problem is marketing, they don't fit into a niche
with a venue with an audience.

-Nils

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Downtown Lullaby error
Date: 23 Jun 1998 00:15:53 EDT

In a message dated 98-06-22 15:32:55 EDT, [e-mail] writes:

<< So far the Depth Of Field recordings (all two of them) have some small
 problems.  Is it that they were made in haste or is it just carelessness?
 I posted before that on the "Euclid's Nighmare" disc there are repeated
 tracks (7 and 18, for example). >>

   Actually, a friend of mine wrote to Previte asking about this and he wrote
back saying that it was intentional and thanked my friend for noticing.
 I like that disk more and more each time I listen to it.
   -nick

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Downtown Lullaby error
Date: 23 Jun 1998 00:35:26 -0400

Dan Hewins wrote:

> Is this label going to only release 100% improv discs or what?  I don't
> really mean that but so far that's all there is.

Next on the agenda is an already-recorded album of Bobby's classic fusion
repertoire band The Horse, an all-new studio recording.  There may be another
album of the Lullaby quartet recorded live at the Knitting Factory.  And
before long there will be discs by other artists, but not before sometime next
year.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Chris Genzel)
Subject: Re: Hancock
Date: 23 Jun 1998 08:55:57 +0200


> > Finally, does anyone know of a Ron Carter trio album with Hancock and
> > Cobham??

 On Ron Carter's "Uptown Conversation" (1969), there are some tracks with just
 Carter, Hancock and Cobham. Don't know whether there's a whole album with
 just the three of them.

> You're not referring to the Milestone album Carter made about 1980 with
> Hancock and Tony Williams are you? If so, I have it on vinyl and can look
> up the particulars on it if you're interested.

 There are several Carter/Hancock/Williams trio albums out. You're talking
 about Carter's "Third Plane" (rec. 1977, rel. 1978); there's also "The
 Herbie Hancock Trio '77" and "Herbie Hancock Trio With Ron Carter + Tony
 Williams" (1981). The latter ones have only been issued in Japan.

 Regards,
 - Chris.

 ---------------------------------------------
 *    Chris Genzel --- [e-mail]    *
 * Homepage & Herbie Hancock Discography at: *
 *    http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil/   *
 ---------------------------------------------


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Olivier Nguyen Van Tan" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mike Patton's Fantomas
Date: 23 Jun 1998 09:51:20 +0100

This description of "metallish-improv" sounds great to me !!!
:)))

Who are the member of Fantomas ?


Olivier


-----Message d'origine-----
>From: "m. rizzi" <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Mike Patton's Fantomas
>
>I am so lame, I missed last nights debut of Mike Pattons
>new group Fantomas. Did anyone go? Description/review
>appreciated.


>From: "Chris Bar{ett" <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: Mike Patton's Fantomas
>
>Didn't see it (or hear it) but, I read on MTV's site (gotta keep up with my
>Spice Girls news) and one other that he puzzled, befuddled and confused
>most of the crowd.  It was apparently some sort of metallish-improv.  It
>seems many fans left the show early or midway through, a few screaming
>their displeasure during the few quiet moments.
>
>- -Chris



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mike Patton's Fantomas
Date: 23 Jun 1998 18:01:59 +1000

> Who are the member of Fantomas ?

Trevor Dunn (Mr Bungle) on bass
Dave Lombardo (Slayer) on drums
Buzz Osborne (Melvins) on guitar
and of course Patton making noises out front

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Stefan Verstraeten <[e-mail]>
Subject: Mike Patton & Han Bennink
Date: 23 Jun 1998 11:05:40 +0200

Dear Zornies,

I just read the new booklet of the Vooruit Arts Centre (Ghent, Belgium,
Europe), and I was amazed by a forthcoming concert. Mike Patton in
concert with Han Bennink.

So my question is: has someone ever heard any recordings, saw some
concerts by these two guys??? Is it amazing or is Mike Patton trying
(not succeeding though) to imitate Zorn again.....

Bye
--
Stefan Verstraeten

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Mike Patton & Han Bennink
Date: 23 Jun 1998 11:54:52 +0200



> Dear Zornies,
>
> I just read the new booklet of the Vooruit Arts Centre (Ghent, Belgium,
> Europe), and I was amazed by a forthcoming concert. Mike Patton in
> concert with Han Bennink.

WHEN????

Frankco.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Mike Patton & Han Bennink
Date: 23 Jun 1998 13:02:47 +0200



> So my question is: has someone ever heard any recordings, saw some
> concerts by these two guys??? Is it amazing or is Mike Patton trying
> (not succeeding though) to imitate Zorn again.....

I don't recall Mike Patton ever trying to immitate Zorn. Or has he picked
up playing the saxophone lately?

You could say Patton is trying to immitate Hanatarash, maybe, but Zorn?!

Frankco.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Recent  Goodies and otherwise
Date: 23 Jun 1998 08:20:29 -0300

>ARCADO STRING TRIO     LIVE IN EUROPE              AVANT

>Nice work, but I'd love to hear these guys loosen up a bit more.

I do agree. I guess they sound academic and kind of dark, except for
"Lanette" (track 4) where the trio opens the song playing percussion on
the bodies of their instruments, passes through a Caribbean melody and
closes with a series of playful quotes by Feldman.
IMO, I think it's a pity they didn't follow Lanette's tone on the rest
of the cd.

-Hugo, from Argentina


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Felix" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Edgar Allan Poe
Date: 22 Jun 1998 23:46:14 +0200

I recently heard about this album called "Closed On Account Of Rabies" by
various artists which is supposed to be musical interpretations and
recitations of Poe's poems and stories. It has good artists such as Marc
Ribot and Diamanda Galas, but also strange names such as Iggy Pop and
Cristopher Walken (the actor?). Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has heard
this album, and how do they recommend it...

Thanks
Felix
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: BJOERN <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mike Patton & Han Bennink
Date: 23 Jun 1998 13:34:52 +0200 (MEST)

>> So my question is: has someone ever heard any recordings, saw some
>> concerts by these two guys??? Is it amazing or is Mike Patton trying
>> (not succeeding though) to imitate Zorn again.....

>I don't recall Mike Patton ever trying to immitate Zorn. Or has he picked
>up playing the saxophone lately?

oh yes he does...i never heard anything sounding so much like Zorn as Mike
Patton`s pranzo oltranzista album....
i think as a composer Mike Patton is rather weak. if you listen to the
stuff he wrote for the last Faith No More album..these are the weakest
tracks on the album..also the main track he wrote for Mr. Bungle`s Disco
Volante..Violenza domestica is musically very primitive although it is a
great track...
a think Patton did his best work when he sings/screams on other people`s
compositions

BJOERN


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: BJOERN <[e-mail]>
Subject: LCV: Fantomas cover (fwd)
Date: 23 Jun 1998 13:49:46 +0200 (MEST)

>Following lcv tradition, I figured people might want to know that the
>cover song Fantomas played at the SF shows was T-Rex's "Chariot Choogle",
>which is on the album Slider (1974).  It was the only piece played at
>either show that had words (recognizable as such anyhow)

and here u see it again...!!!
when zorn did the bacharch tribute album mike patton sang a bacharch song
on the Faith No More tour...now zorn works on the marc bolan tribute and
patton does a t.rex cover with fantomas....
not really an imitation...but not very unique either

BJOERN
http://www.cityinfonetz.de/uni/homepage/bjoern.eichstaedt


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: The Grassy Knoll live
Date: 23 Jun 1998 13:54:06 +0200

Hi,

I saw The Grassy Knoll show at Warsaw Summer Jazz Days and I don't agree
with Artur (pozdrawiam).
Deepy drum & bass sounds with many samples and Davis oriented trumpet.
Maybe compositions were too similar each other but I really enjoyed the
concert.
I didn't hear The Grassy Knoll studio releases before and now I'd like to.

Marcin

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Thomas Queins" <[e-mail]>
Subject: R: Edgar Allan Poe
Date: 23 Jun 1998 16:06:42 +0200

"Closed On Account Of Rabies" is an Hal Willner Production.
There's also Marianne Faithfull, Gavin Fryday, Debbie Harry,
Jeff Buckley, Ed Sanders, Gabriel Byrne, ABel Ferrara, Dr. John
and Wayne Kramer

----------
> Da: Felix <[e-mail]>
> A: Zorn List <[e-mail]>
> Oggetto: Edgar Allan Poe
> Data: luned∞ 22 giugno 1998 23.46
>
> I recently heard about this album called "Closed On Account Of Rabies" by
> various artists which is supposed to be musical interpretations and
> recitations of Poe's poems and stories. It has good artists such as Marc
> Ribot and Diamanda Galas, but also strange names such as Iggy Pop and
> Cristopher Walken (the actor?). Anyway, I was wondering if anyone has
heard
> this album, and how do they recommend it...
>
> Thanks
> Felix
> [e-mail]
>
>
> -

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Downtown Lullaby error
Date: 23 Jun 1998 07:45:01 -0700


On Tue, 23 Jun 1998 00:35:26 -0400  Steve Smith wrote:
>
> Dan Hewins wrote:
>
> > Is this label going to only release 100% improv discs or what?  I don't
> > really mean that but so far that's all there is.
>
> Next on the agenda is an already-recorded album of Bobby's classic fusion
> repertoire band The Horse, an all-new studio recording.  There may be another
> album of the Lullaby quartet recorded live at the Knitting Factory.  And
> before long there will be discs by other artists, but not before sometime next
> year.

What about the duo Susan McKeown/Lindsey Horner?

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Grassy Knoll/Liquid Soul
Date: 23 Jun 1998 13:04:20 -0300

>DD's Sanctuary (you may know what I mean), basically jazzy-sh stuff
>with a heavy beat in there sometimes... Any ideas?

I have listened to Grassy Knoll I and I enjoyed it a lot, though I
already have to try with II and III.
If you want a heavy beat, Chicago's Liquid Soul has caught fire and
their second recent "Make some noise" (ARK21- 1998) is very funky with
powerful horns. There you can listen to the great Mars Williams on
tenor, alto and soprano sax; Ron Haynes, trumpet, flugelhorn; John
Janowiak, trombone; Tommy Sanchez, guitar; Ricky Showalter, bass; Dan
Leali, drums; Frank Hill & Chris Cameron, keyboards (on different
tracks); Jesse de la Pena, turntables; Dirty M.F., rap.
I bet you that Kurt Elling's scat vocal on "Salt Peanuts" (track 3) and
"Ramblin'" (from O. Coleman's songbook -track 8) will really dig into
you.
Also try their first outing "Liquid Soul" (Soul What Records, according
to my copy).
By the way, is there any recommendation on Brooklyn Funk Essentials?
Should I buy it?

Thanks in advance.

-Hugo, from Argentina

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Claudio Koremblit" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RV: Cancellation of Experimenta '98
Date: 23 Jun 1998 13:18:21 -0300


Regarding an information about the cancellation of the experimental music
series in Buenos Aires, Argentina, called Experimenta 98, taken=20
from La Nacion, newspaper, june 7, we suggest to see the=20
article published for Clarin, other argentinian newspaper,=20
that have address on line:=20
http://www.clarin.com/diario/98-06-09/c-00301d.htm=20

and then maybe you could understand (probably not) that Experimenta=20
still didn't died and maybe could have a new agreement with the=20
authorities of the City of Buenos Aires in the next days.=20
Probably with a violent reduction of the budget but
with the hope of don't lose this important space for the=20
new music.
Below you have the letter that were signed for many artists in Argentina=20
and other places asking the authorities for maintain the conditions for=20
Experimenta continue working.

Best
CK


EXPERIMENTA DOESN'T SLEEP

We, the undersigned Argentine and foreign artists, turn to the public
opinion and to the authorities elected by the Argentine people in order t=
o
inform you of a situation we consider to be of utmost importance.=20
In 1997, a cycle called Experimenta 97 was created which included concert=
s
and workshops whose purpose was to promote music presently being produced
in the entire world in the experimental field. These events were carried
out with the presence of prominent artists from abroad who were able to
exchange experiences with Argentine musicians interested in generating ne=
w
ideas. This is a research and experimentation process which every country
promotes. It contributes to the cultural sign of the times and enriches
culture in all of its areas. This was undoubtedly understood by the Bueno=
s
Aires city authorities, whose officials in the culture department support=
ed
the cycle financially and later benefited from the acclaim. At the end of
last year, the same officials spoke of success and committed themselves t=
o
sponsoring, including through the media, the cycle's continuation in 1998.
This is how its artistic director, Claudio Koremblit, began work on the n=
ew
program and secured the commitments of all the artists that are included =
in
the Experimenta 98 cycle with the blessing of the city authorities. In Ma=
y,
when many of us were working on the new program, we began to fear that th=
e
commitments made by the Secretary of Culture of the city of Buenos Aires
and it representatives in the Alvear Theater could be altered. We now kno=
w
that there is a strange word circulating among the people in charge of
carrying it out: the cycle is "un-financed."=20
In a country where the people profoundly distrusts the system that
legislates them, where the economic situation is critical, where words me=
an
nothing, where people do not believe in justice, it would seem that the
situation of an anvanguard cycle and its possible disappearance as if it
had never existed would be something totally irrelevant. Nevertheless, we
believe that it is another blow that is added to all the other blows our
culture has to withstand every day; and that presents us as a country
manipulated by the whims and political necessities of its leaders. In
addition, Experimenta makes contributions in an area which has always bee=
n
rather thrashed and iscriminated against. It is an area which contributes
much by its mere existence, because it is open and unprejudiced, somethin=
g
which our empoverished culture needs as much as it does air in order to
exist. To make something die of hunger that is considered successful and
important is an obscurantist attitude that generates backwardness,
confusion and disbelief. We believe that it is of vital importance that t=
he
authorities reconsider this attitude, and at the same time call upon the
public opinion and artists to join and defend something that we must all
defend: the right to be informed and respected. We must sustain the place
we have won with much effort and which we undoubtedly deserve.
Bob Ostertag
Ned Rothenberg
Dave Soldier
Pauline Oliveros
Warren Burt
Chris Mann
John Sanborn
Nick Didkovsky
Kathleen Supov=E9
Jin Hi Kim
Joseph Celli
Rodrigo Sigal
Zev Asher
Diane Labrosse
Mark Dresser=20
Masami Akita
Jim Denley
Stevie Wishart
Carlos "ZINGARO" Alves
Kono Masahiko
Gerry Hemingway
Gregg Bendian
Michael Schell
Laetitia Sonami
John Oswald
Jon Rose
Elliott Sharp
Ana Alvarado DNI 13.388.887
Jos=E9 Antonio AmatoDNI16.658.531
Laura Apr=E1 DNI 16.895.629
Alejandro Baigorria DNI 16.761.540
Carmen Baliero  DNI 14.986.724
Hugo Barrionuevo DNI 14.775.342
Ricardo Bartis DNI 8.104.986
Mart=EDn Bauer  DNI 14.820.302
Sergio Boryszanski DNI 18.160.414
Mario O. Bozeglav DNI 16.584.188
Edgardo Cardozo DNI 17.029.476 =20
Ignacio D. Carosi DNI 20.618.230                     =20
Luis Dziembrowsky DNI14.976.509          =20
Oscar Edelstein DNI  10.824.177
Eduardo del Estal DNI 11.534.341
Mar=EDa A. Esteves DNI 21.749.038
Julio Fainguersch CI 3.760.536
Ana Lucia Frega C.I. 3.597.611
Martin A. Fumarola DNI  18.016.421
Fabiana Galante DNI 17.029.668
Omar Gianmarco DNI 18.588.145
Dina P. de Graetzer CI 5.271.225
Pablo Grinjot DNI 22.743.416
Anibal Guiser DNI 12.667.322
Horacio Gutman DNI 14.186.938
Jose Halac DNI 14.921.100
Luis Herrera  DNI 9.342.710
Daniel Ibarrart DNI 17.291.286
H=E9ctor Jascolowski DNI 16.053.594
Gonzalo Juan DNI 24.647.175
Aitana Kasulin DNI: 17.363.445
Marcelo Katz  DNI 16.054.717
Eduardo Kusnir  CI  4.577.895
Gregory Kowalski Pte Z7050152
David LagmanovichDNI 7.023.227
Wenchi Lazo DNI  20.988.254
Pablo Ledesma DNI: 12.167.247
Gabriel Levy DNI 18.470.910
Pablo Di Liscia DNI 11.866.250
Fernando Llosa DNI 4.399.639
Mario Lorenzo DNI 20226592
Elizabeth Magazian DNI 16.559.540
Jorge Mancini DNI 14.232.455
Patricia Mart=EDnez DNI  23.469.510
Soledad Mascia  DNI 25.358.916
Daniel A. Miraglia DNI 12.849.079
Mart=EDn Moore DNI 17.606.890
Alberto Mu=F1oz CI 6.435.426   =20
Orlando Musumeci DNI 17.366.063
Juan Pampin DNI 18.642.898
Andrea Pensado DNI 17592501
Mauro Pereira DNI 25869099
Jorge S. Perednik DNI 10.128.295
Gustavo Ribicic  CI  6.464.144
C=E9sar Rodr=EDguez DNI 17.189.098
Damian Rodriguez DNI 16.548.114
Diego Ruiz DNI 24.561.256
Adriana de losSantos DNI11807044
Jorge Sad D.N.I. 13.565035=20
Daniel Schachter DNI 10.983.109
H=E9ctor Torres DNI 12.900.700
Osvaldo V=E1zquez DNI 12.685.332
Santiago V=E1zquez  DNI 23.123.563
Claudio Veneziale DNI 16.199.049
Daniel Veronese  DNI 11.962.388
Celeste WiedeDNI 22.650.354
Laura Yusem  DNI 4.706.330
Antonio ZimmermanDNI22.533.340
Federico Zypce CI 11.955.833

=09



 > > Subject: Cancellation of Experimenta '98
> > > Date: martes 9 de junio de 1998 12:39
> > >=20
> > > The decision last week end by Secretary of Culture of Buenos Aires =
to
> > > cancel founding suport for avant-garde music event "Experimenta '98=
"
> > > sent an abrupt final for this "suposed to be" second edition.
> > >=20
> > > The Secretary was going to provide $140.000 for this purpose, but
they
> > > finally alleged budget problems that meant the cancellation of the
> event
> > > (musicians originally announced included A. Lucier, M. Dresser, E.
> > > Chadbourne and J. Zorn Masada amoung others).
> > >=20
> > > Taken from local newspaper "La Nacisn", June 7th.
> > >=20
> > > -Hugo (very sad), from Argentina =20




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Claudio Koremblit" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RV: Cancellation of Experimenta '98
Date: 23 Jun 1998 13:41:12 -0300

Address of Clarin newspaperr wrong:


> Regarding an information about the cancellation of the experimental music
> series in Buenos Aires, Argentina, called Experimenta 98, taken
> from La Nacion, newspaper, june 7, we suggest to see the
> article published for Clarin, other argentinian newspaper,
> that have address on line:

http://www.clarin.com.ar/diario/98-06-09/c-00301d.htm

this is right.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Paul Audino <[e-mail]>
Subject: Maleem Mahmoud Ghania
Date: 23 Jun 1998 16:02:58 -0500 (CDT)


    I just got done perusing an old interview with Bill Laswell from
1994 where he mentions that Maleem Mahmoud Ghania (from _The Trance of
Seven Colors_) has relleased over 30 cassette tapes in Morrocco.  Any
ideas of on-line sources where I might be able to track some of this
material down?

Thanks,

Paul
[e-mail]

  GROOVE
----------
One Nation



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Downtown Lullaby error
Date: 24 Jun 1998 00:44:37 -0400

Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

> What about the duo Susan McKeown/Lindsey Horner?

Still on the schedule but delayed because the duo released another album on another
label about the same time BP originally planned to issue the record of theirs he
has.

(Celtic vocals and double bass + penny whistle, for those unfamiliar with the
pair...)

Steve


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fritz Feger <[e-mail]>
Subject: Joe Lovano and Motian/Lovano/Frisell
Date: 24 Jun 1998 09:36:32 +0200

Concerning the trio, I think nobody mentioned the two "On Broadway" discs
on JMT. They play standards on it exclusively, and they do it in a way that
justifies to rerecord pieces recorded hundreds of times, IMO. Especially
the ballads with floating time really touch me, for example "It might as
well be spring" on the first one. All three contribute to the band sound in
an exciting and unusual way, especially Motian and Frisell.

Talking about Lovano, I would say that in general he is better as sideman
than as a leader. I have heard one record, don't remember the name, with a
rather large setup (among them a female singer) which doesn't work at all,
and I find his Sinatra-tribute quite overestimated by the press. Although
being rather mainstream for this list, I would recommend the Scofield
albums with Lovano, Bill Steward and Larry Goldings - not too far out, but
serious masters at work, if you ask me.

Any opinions?

Fritz.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Circle9 <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Scofield
Date: 24 Jun 1998 03:51:58 -0400

Speaking of Sco, I recently picked up his new one with MMW as his sidecrew. I
had read some good reviews, but honestly, I was wary about the purchase, it
being King Wank and all. But this album took me by complete surprise. It rocks!
Evenm though it's all Sco tunes, it fits very nicely into the MMW discography.
Far, far better than anything Booker T's done in the last twenty years...


Fritz Feger wrote:

> Concerning the trio, I think nobody mentioned the two "On Broadway" discs
> on JMT. They play standards on it exclusively, and they do it in a way that
> justifies to rerecord pieces recorded hundreds of times, IMO. Especially
> the ballads with floating time really touch me, for example "It might as
> well be spring" on the first one. All three contribute to the band sound in
> an exciting and unusual way, especially Motian and Frisell.
>
> Talking about Lovano, I would say that in general he is better as sideman
> than as a leader. I have heard one record, don't remember the name, with a
> rather large setup (among them a female singer) which doesn't work at all,
> and I find his Sinatra-tribute quite overestimated by the press. Although
> being rather mainstream for this list, I would recommend the Scofield
> albums with Lovano, Bill Steward and Larry Goldings - not too far out, but
> serious masters at work, if you ask me.
>
> Any opinions?
>
> Fritz.
>
> -




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Stefan Verstraeten <[e-mail]>
Subject: Patton and zorn (for franko)
Date: 24 Jun 1998 10:11:55 +0200

> From: [e-mail]
> I don't recall Mike Patton ever trying to immitate Zorn. Or has he picked
> up playing the saxophone lately?
> > Frankco.

Hello, anybody out there?????? Of course I know the difference between a
microphone and a saxophone (hello, beam it up scotty....). What I was
trying to say is that Patton is trying too hard to get into zorns'
entourage... (still can't believe that I have to explain this)...
--
Stefan Verstraeten

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Patton and zorn (for franko)
Date: 24 Jun 1998 10:41:43 +0200


> > I don't recall Mike Patton ever trying to immitate Zorn. Or has he picked
> > up playing the saxophone lately?
> > > Frankco.
>
> Hello, anybody out there?????? Of course I know the difference between a
> microphone and a saxophone (hello, beam it up scotty....). What I was
> trying to say is that Patton is trying too hard to get into zorns'
> entourage... (still can't believe that I have to explain this)...

Of course, the reference to the saxophone was meant in a humorous/cynical way.
I can't believe I have to explain this!

What I was trying to say is that I don't think Patton is trying to immitate
Zorn. Plus, referring to what you say about Patton trying to get into Zorn's
little circle of friends - for all I know, Zorn asked Patton to join Naked
City for their 1991 European tour, not the other way around. I think Patton
isn't trying to become part of the people around Zorn, he already is. Whether
he is successful at what he does musically is subject to discussion, though...

Could you now please answer my question when Patton and Bennink are playing
in Ghent? Since I live in The Netherlands, Ghent is well within reach for me,
so I might enjoy going to that concert...

Frankco.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Felix" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Weird Little Boy
Date: 23 Jun 1998 18:39:19 +0200

I know this is probably old news, but only today did I find this record for
sale. I never really was much interested in it at first but grew interested
as I saw the names of the players/composers. Could anyone give me a brief
review on that album?

On a unrelated note, I just picked up SYR3, an intrumental album by Sonic
Youth with Jim O'Rourke. It's pretty good, but it doesn't deserve all the
fuss that SY fans have been giving it. It sounds alot like many ambient
albums, particularly the ones like "absinthe" (droning, constant, sometimes
anoying sounds), but it's done mainly with guitar noises and feedback. Kim
Gordon actually sings in one of the tracks, but very little and mostly
meaningless words. The only problem is that it lacks the concept that comes
with ambient or free improv albums like absynthe, elegy, new traditions...,
etc. It lacks theme. But it's good anyway, I recommend it, but try to give
it a listen before you buy it.

Felix
[e-mail]

[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Caleb Deupree)
Subject: GENE COLEMAN & POLWECHSEL @ ROULETTE
Date: 24 Jun 1998 09:14:13 -0400

Forwarded from another list.  Polwechsel's Random Acoustics album is a
marvelous album of textural improv, and this sounds like a great
concert if you're in the area.

------- Start of forwarded message -------
CONCERT
POLWECHSEL & GENE COLEMAN
June 26, 1998 at 9:00PM, $8
@ Roulette, 228 West Broadway, Manhattan
info: 718-388-1809, [e-mail]

Between New Music & Improvisation

Gene Coleman - bassclarinet
Burkhard Stangl - guitar
Michael Moser - cello
Werner Dafeldecker - bass

With one foot in new music and the other in free-jazz, the Viennese quartet
Polwechsel (in New York heard as trio with Gene Coleman) produce tense
compositions of uncanny detail and precision. Inspired by the notion of
"trusting the sound" the ensemble produce extreme sonic events at once
delicate and aggressive, playful and sharply focused. A major force in
contemporary notions of the radical developement of new music, Polwechsel's
members have worked variously with Tony Oxley, Heiner Goebbels, Jim
O'Rourke, Elliot Sharp, Ned Rothenberg, Tom Varner, Steve Lacy, Tom Cora,
Klangforum Vienna, Maxixe, a.o.

Between free improvisation and composed structures, these musicians engage
in an alchemical conversation that predicts musical gestures as much as it
reacts to them. They are not only masters of the sensitive give-and-take,
but they apply their sublime skills in a fascination exploration of sound.
They not merely revel in exciting and unusual textures, they obsess over
them. Their music consists of tiny, highly detailed studies in which the
smallest gestures and fragments take on lives of their own. They rarely
produce sounds you would expect from their instruments, and the dynamic use
of silence heightens the intensity of the most fragile sounds. Listening to
Polwechsel requires full attention, but the group's gorgeously unique
approach rewards rapt ears.

Gene Coleman (Chicago) and the members of Polwechsel, all Austrians, share
a considerable history already. Their collaboration  began in 1997 with a
concert in Chicago, followed by programs in Vienna. In August 1997, Coleman
performed in the premier of Burkhard Stangl's operetta "Der Venusmond"
which was played on the top of the Empire State Building in New York. In
April '98 the members of Polwechsel played an entire concert of Coleman's
compositions at Echoraum/Vienna. This same program, which will be presented
in June '98 in Chicago, Vancouver, Seattle as well as New York represents a
deepening connection between the Chicago and Vienna musicians. The
concentration on sound itself (rather than pitch) along with extreme
dynamics, silence, and space within the composition creates a vital basis
for their ongoing dialogue. The Roulette concert is the group's New York
debut.


Gene Coleman
born 1958; studied music, film, and visual arts at the Art Institute of
Chicago; private study in composition; collaborated several times with the
members of Polwechsel in North America and in Europe; with his group
"Ensemble Noamnesia"he has worked with Helmut Lachenmann,Vinko Globokar,
Roscoe Mitchell; has performed in concert with Derek Bailey, Evan Parker,
Radu Malfatti, Jim O'Rourke and Eddie Prevost, a.o.; has recorded with
Gastr del Sol, Brice-Glace, Tony Conrad, Anthony Braxton and his own
compostions can be heard on the Hat Art and Okka disc labels; lives in
Chicago.

Michael Moser
born 1959; studies: violoncello ; performances for live electronics; worked
with Bernhard Lang, Heiner Goebbels, Peter Ablinger, Vinko Globokar, Helmut
Lachenmann, Burkhard Stangl, Tony Oxley, Dieter Glawischnig, Ton.Art,
Klangforum Wien, a.o.; lives in Vienna.

Burkhard Stangl
born 1960; studies: classical guitar, music ethnology; Projects: Maxixe,
Q.uit; worked with Klangforum Wien, Ensemble 2001, Franz Kogelmann, Tom
Cora, Steve Lacy, Tom Varner, Lee Konitz, Tony Coe, and many others;
compositions for different ensembles and projects; CD releases on:Hat Art,
Creative Works, Random Acoustics, Extraplatte, a.o.; lives in Vienna.

Werner Dafeldecker
born 1964; studies: doublebass; projects: Polwechsel, Shabotinski; worked
with: Eugene Chadbourne, Gene Coleman, Christian Fennesz, Ned Rothenberg,
Walter Malli, Radu Malfatti, Tom Varner, Franz Kogelmann, Christof
Kurzmann, Sunny Murray, Jim O┤Rourke, Elliot Sharp, Klangforum Wien,
Ensemble Maxixe, Ton.Art and others; compositions for ensembles and
projects like: Klangforum Wien, European Tuba Quartett, Polwechsel,
Shabotinski, Ton Art a.o. Founded the Avantgarde-Label Durian Records in
1995. Concerts at international festivals; CD releases for Hat Art, Random
Acoustics, Durian Records, Plag dich nicht, Extraplatte, a.o.; lives in
Vienna.
------- End of forwarded message -------

---
Caleb T. Deupree
;; Opinions...  funny thing about opinions, they can change.

Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers.
(Pablo Picasso)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Gift Ideas
Date: 24 Jun 1998 09:35:19 -0500


     OK, here's my problem: I have this 18-year old nephew for whom I'd
     like to get a couple of discs as a high school graduation present.
     He's very much into the electronica, big beat, etc. scene (he DJs
     around) but has pretty big ears; I had him listening to Naked City and
     Coltrane ('Ascension'!) at 14. In that my knowledge of the current
     dance genre is minimal at best, I'm looking for suggestions of things
     that stretch those boundaries a bit, something, say, a step (or three)
     beyond Aube or Squarepusher, that he'd enjoy while still providing
     something of a challenge.

     Thanks for the help.

     Brian Olewnick

     NP: Evan Parker    Toward the Margins



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brent Burton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Gift Ideas
Date: 24 Jun 1998 10:10:06 -0400 (EDT)

On Wed, 24 Jun 1998 [e-mail] wrote:

>      OK, here's my problem: I have this 18-year old nephew for whom I'd
>      like to get a couple of discs as a high school graduation present.
>      He's very much into the electronica, big beat, etc. scene (he DJs
>      around) but has pretty big ears; I had him listening to Naked City and
>      Coltrane ('Ascension'!) at 14. In that my knowledge of the current
>      dance genre is minimal at best, I'm looking for suggestions of things
>      that stretch those boundaries a bit, something, say, a step (or three)
>      beyond Aube or Squarepusher, that he'd enjoy while still providing
>      something of a challenge.

any of panasonic's discs or mika vanio's sideprojects (like philus'
_tetra_ and the _onko_ disc on touch) are great minimalist e-musik, arriving
from the techno side of the map.  same goes for autechre (_chiastic
slide_ being amazing), (+gescom), farmersmanual (_fsck_ taking the wm.
burroughs approach to drum n' bass), ryoji ikeda, noto, fx randomiz,
general magic, oval, etc.  all share a very similar aesthetic of spare,
cracked sounds and you should be able to find most of it in forced exposure.

b


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Caleb Deupree)
Subject: Re: Gift Ideas
Date: 24 Jun 1998 10:14:53 -0400

>>>>> "brian" == brian olewnick <[e-mail]> writes:

    brian>      OK, here's my problem: I have this 18-year old nephew
    brian> for whom I'd like to get a couple of discs as a high school
    brian> graduation present.  He's very much into the electronica,
    brian> big beat, etc. scene (he DJs around) but has pretty big
    brian> ears; I had him listening to Naked City and Coltrane
    brian> ('Ascension'!) at 14. In that my knowledge of the current
    brian> dance genre is minimal at best, I'm looking for suggestions
    brian> of things that stretch those boundaries a bit, something,
    brian> say, a step (or three) beyond Aube or Squarepusher, that
    brian> he'd enjoy while still providing something of a challenge.

How about Derek Bailey's Guitar, Drum & Bass, Laswell's Oscillations
or Tetragrammaton?
---
Caleb T. Deupree
;; Opinions...  funny thing about opinions, they can change.

Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers.
(Pablo Picasso)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Carlos Murat" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: Solidarity with Experimenta
Date: 24 Jun 1998 11:22:36 -0300

The place Experimenta has won last year, justified every effort to repeat
it.

Carlos Murat
[e-mail]

----------


EXPERIMENTA DOESN'T SLEEP

We, the undersigned Argentine and foreign artists, turn to the public
opinion and to the authorities elected by the Argentine people in order t=
o
inform you of a situation we consider to be of utmost importance.=20
In 1997, a cycle called Experimenta 97 was created which included concert=
s
and workshops whose purpose was to promote music presently being produced
in the entire world in the experimental field. These events were carried
out with the presence of prominent artists from abroad who were able to
exchange experiences with Argentine musicians interested in generating ne=
w
ideas. This is a research and experimentation process which every country
promotes. It contributes to the cultural sign of the times and enriches
culture in all of its areas. This was undoubtedly understood by the Bueno=
s
Aires city authorities, whose officials in the culture department support=
ed
the cycle financially and later benefited from the acclaim. At the end of
last year, the same officials spoke of success and committed themselves t=
o
sponsoring, including through the media, the cycle's continuation in 1998.
This is how its artistic director began work on the new
program and secured the commitments of all the artists that are included =
in
the Experimenta 98 cycle with the blessing of the city authorities. In Ma=
y,
when many of us were working on the new program, we began to fear that th=
e
commitments made by the Secretary of Culture of the city of Buenos Aires
and it representatives in the Alvear Theater could be altered. We now kno=
w
that there is a strange word circulating among the people in charge of
carrying it out: the cycle is "un-financed."=20
In a country where the people profoundly distrusts the system that
legislates them, where the economic situation is critical, where words me=
an
nothing, where people do not believe in justice, it would seem that the
situation of an anvanguard cycle and its possible disappearance as if it
had never existed would be something totally irrelevant. Nevertheless, we
believe that it is another blow that is added to all the other blows our
culture has to withstand every day; and that presents us as a country
manipulated by the whims and political necessities of its leaders. In
addition, Experimenta makes contributions in an area which has always bee=
n
rather thrashed and iscriminated against. It is an area which contributes
much by its mere existence, because it is open and unprejudiced, somethin=
g
which our empoverished culture needs as much as it does air in order to
exist. To make something die of hunger that is considered successful and
important is an obscurantist attitude that generates backwardness,
confusion and disbelief. We believe that it is of vital importance that t=
he
authorities reconsider this attitude, and at the same time call upon the
public opinion and artists to join and defend something that we must all
defend: the right to be informed and respected. We must sustain the place
we have won with much effort and which we undoubtedly deserve.
Bob Ostertag
Ned Rothenberg
Dave Soldier
Pauline Oliveros
Warren Burt
Chris Mann
John Sanborn
Nick Didkovsky
Kathleen Supov=E9
Jin Hi Kim
Joseph Celli
Rodrigo Sigal
Zev Asher
Diane Labrosse
Mark Dresser=20
Masami Akita
Jim Denley
Stevie Wishart
Carlos "ZINGARO" Alves
Kono Masahiko
Gerry Hemingway
Gregg Bendian
Michael Schell
Laetitia Sonami
John Oswald
Jon Rose
Elliott Sharp
Ana Alvarado DNI 13.388.887
Jos=E9 Antonio AmatoDNI16.658.531
Laura Apr=E1 DNI 16.895.629
Alejandro Baigorria DNI 16.761.540
Carmen Baliero  DNI 14.986.724
Hugo Barrionuevo DNI 14.775.342
Ricardo Bartis DNI 8.104.986
Mart=EDn Bauer  DNI 14.820.302
Sergio Boryszanski DNI 18.160.414
Mario O. Bozeglav DNI 16.584.188
Edgardo Cardozo DNI 17.029.476 =20
Ignacio D. Carosi DNI 20.618.230                     =20
Luis Dziembrowsky DNI14.976.509          =20
Oscar Edelstein DNI  10.824.177
Eduardo del Estal DNI 11.534.341
Mar=EDa A. Esteves DNI 21.749.038
Julio Fainguersch CI 3.760.536
Ana Lucia Frega C.I. 3.597.611
Martin A. Fumarola DNI  18.016.421
Fabiana Galante DNI 17.029.668
Omar Gianmarco DNI 18.588.145
Dina P. de Graetzer CI 5.271.225
Pablo Grinjot DNI 22.743.416
Anibal Guiser DNI 12.667.322
Horacio Gutman DNI 14.186.938
Jose Halac DNI 14.921.100
Luis Herrera  DNI 9.342.710
Daniel Ibarrart DNI 17.291.286
H=E9ctor Jascolowski DNI 16.053.594
Gonzalo Juan DNI 24.647.175
Aitana Kasulin DNI: 17.363.445
Marcelo Katz  DNI 16.054.717
Eduardo Kusnir  CI  4.577.895
Gregory Kowalski Pte Z7050152
David LagmanovichDNI 7.023.227
Wenchi Lazo DNI  20.988.254
Pablo Ledesma DNI: 12.167.247
Gabriel Levy DNI 18.470.910
Pablo Di Liscia DNI 11.866.250
Fernando Llosa DNI 4.399.639
Mario Lorenzo DNI 20226592
Elizabeth Magazian DNI 16.559.540
Jorge Mancini DNI 14.232.455
Patricia Mart=EDnez DNI  23.469.510
Soledad Mascia  DNI 25.358.916
Daniel A. Miraglia DNI 12.849.079
Mart=EDn Moore DNI 17.606.890
Alberto Mu=F1oz CI 6.435.426   =20
Orlando Musumeci DNI 17.366.063
Juan Pampin DNI 18.642.898
Andrea Pensado DNI 17592501
Mauro Pereira DNI 25869099
Jorge S. Perednik DNI 10.128.295
Gustavo Ribicic  CI  6.464.144
C=E9sar Rodr=EDguez DNI 17.189.098
Damian Rodriguez DNI 16.548.114
Diego Ruiz DNI 24.561.256
Adriana de losSantos DNI11807044
Jorge Sad D.N.I. 13.565035=20
Daniel Schachter DNI 10.983.109
H=E9ctor Torres DNI 12.900.700
Osvaldo V=E1zquez DNI 12.685.332
Santiago V=E1zquez  DNI 23.123.563
Claudio Veneziale DNI 16.199.049
Daniel Veronese  DNI 11.962.388
Celeste WiedeDNI 22.650.354
Laura Yusem  DNI 4.706.330
Antonio ZimmermanDNI22.533.340
Federico Zypce CI 11.955.833


Comments or adhesion to: [e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Joe Lovano and Motian/Lovano/Frisell
Date: 24 Jun 1998 10:12:42 -0500

There are three On Broadway discs and they add a fourth to the group:
Charlie Haden.  I've only heard the first and I like it quite a bit.

Dan

At 2:36 AM -0500 6/24/98, Fritz Feger wrote:
>Concerning the trio, I think nobody mentioned the two "On Broadway" discs
>on JMT. They play standards on it exclusively, and they do it in a way that



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Patton and zorn (for franko)
Date: 24 Jun 1998 08:22:45 -0700


On Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:41:43 +0200  [e-mail] wrote:
>
>
> > > I don't recall Mike Patton ever trying to immitate Zorn. Or has he picked
> > > up playing the saxophone lately?
> > > > Frankco.
> >
> > Hello, anybody out there?????? Of course I know the difference between a
> > microphone and a saxophone (hello, beam it up scotty....). What I was
> > trying to say is that Patton is trying too hard to get into zorns'
> > entourage... (still can't believe that I have to explain this)...
>
> Of course, the reference to the saxophone was meant in a humorous/cynical way.
> I can't believe I have to explain this!
>
> What I was trying to say is that I don't think Patton is trying to immitate

You should have seen his piece at the Victoriaville festival: hard to
differentiate it from one by Zorn (both from a sound, performance, and setting
points of view).

I am not saying that he is imitating Zorn, but I would lie by refusing to
acknowledge that this idea did not leave during the whole performance.

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Patton and zorn (for franko)
Date: 24 Jun 1998 17:40:13 +0200


>
> You should have seen his piece at the Victoriaville festival: hard to
> differentiate it from one by Zorn (both from a sound, performance, and setting
> points of view).

Maybe I should have, but it's hard for someone from Holland...

> I am not saying that he is imitating Zorn, but I would lie by refusing to
> acknowledge that this idea did not leave during the whole performance.

I'm interested in a description/review of this piece, though.
I must say that I think Patton's "Pranzo Oltranzista" isn't unsimilar to
something Zorn would do - or maybe that is because Zorn's saxophone playing
is prominent in a number of tracks.

Frankco.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Scott Handley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Joe Lovano and Motian/Lovano/Frisell
Date: 24 Jun 1998 08:43:06 PDT

Marc Johnson is the bassist on vol III, w/ Lee Konitz guesting.  The HOW
DEEP IS THE OCEAN is gorgeous.

--scott

>Date: Wed, 24 Jun 1998 10:12:42 -0500
>To: Fritz Feger <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
>From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: Joe Lovano and Motian/Lovano/Frisell
>
>There are three On Broadway discs and they add a fourth to the group:
>Charlie Haden.  I've only heard the first and I like it quite a bit.
>
>Dan
>
>At 2:36 AM -0500 6/24/98, Fritz Feger wrote:
>>Concerning the trio, I think nobody mentioned the two "On Broadway"
discs
>>on JMT. They play standards on it exclusively, and they do it in a way
that
>
>
>
>-
>
>


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Patton and zorn
Date: 24 Jun 1998 11:49:21 EDT


In a message dated 6/24/98 11:28:25 AM, [e-mail] wrote:

<<> What I was trying to say is that I don't think Patton is trying to
immitate

You should have seen his piece at the Victoriaville festival: hard to
differentiate it from one by Zorn (both from a sound, performance, and setting
points of view).

I am not saying that he is imitating Zorn, but I would lie by refusing to
acknowledge that this idea did not leave during the whole performance.
>>

Personally I thought it was a really bad Masonna imitation. Patton seemed to
be completely out of ideas after ten minutes. I don't think Zorn's done
anything that purely "noisy" that I can think of.

Jon

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rusty Crump <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Scofield
Date: 24 Jun 1998 11:05:47 -0500

>Speaking of Sco, I recently picked up his new one with MMW as his sidecrew. I
>had read some good reviews, but honestly, I was wary about the purchase, it
>being King Wank and all. But this album took me by complete surprise. It
>rocks!
>Evenm though it's all Sco tunes, it fits very nicely into the MMW discography.
>Far, far better than anything Booker T's done in the last twenty years...
>
>

For me, the appeal of MMW has started to wear thin. And the funky-ass
organ/gtr/bass/drums disc of the year is "Medicine Hat" by the Will Bernard
4-Tet, on Antilles. It burns the Scofield/MMW down to the ground -- get it,
sez Joe Bob.


Rusty Crump
Oxford, Mississippi
(for a few more weeks, after which the sig will say Redding, California)



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Motian
Date: 24 Jun 1998 13:03:39 -0300

>Concerning the trio, I think nobody mentioned the two "On Broadway"
>discs on JMT. They play standars on it exclusively, and they do it in

I wrote this yesterday, though I guess I did it wrong (mail address).
Here I go again.
I think good choices on other Motian records are "Bill Evans" (JMT-
1990) and "On Broadway- Vol 1" (JMT- 1988).
The first one is all Bill Evans compositions, with Lovano, Frisell and
Marc Johnson on bass; an amazing fine record, with superb melodies and
excellent solos and playing from this cult-fave quartet.
The second one is an album of standards from Broadway musicals. like
"Liza", "Somewhere over the rainbow", "They didn't believe me", amoung
other highlights; musicians are the same except for Haden's presence on
bass, instead of Johnson.
IMO this cd looks like as if they all know the tunes so well and are so
comfortable with each other that they sound like they are having a great
time.
Don't miss them, though I prefer "Bill Evans", if I have to choose.

-Hugo, from Argentina




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rusty Crump <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Gift Ideas
Date: 24 Jun 1998 11:08:39 -0500

>     OK, here's my problem: I have this 18-year old nephew for whom I'd
>     like to get a couple of discs as a high school graduation present.
>     He's very much into the electronica, big beat, etc. scene (he DJs
>     around) but has pretty big ears; I had him listening to Naked City and
>     Coltrane ('Ascension'!) at 14. In that my knowledge of the current
>     dance genre is minimal at best, I'm looking for suggestions of things
>     that stretch those boundaries a bit, something, say, a step (or three)
>     beyond Aube or Squarepusher, that he'd enjoy while still providing
>     something of a challenge.
>
>     Thanks for the help.
>
>     Brian Olewnick
>
>     NP: Evan Parker    Toward the Margins
>
>
>
>-

Hmm... if he doesn't already have them, either of the "Macro Dub Infection"
collections would go down quite tasty. They're British releases on Caroline
(I think).

Rusty Crump
Oxford, MS/Redding, CA



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jabu <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: RV: Cancellation of Experimenta '98
Date: 24 Jun 1998 13:39:36 -0300

Experimenta is one of the few chances  local musicians have for their musical
growth and maybe the only one for music lovers to be exposed to  creative
artists from all over the world.
It would be really sad to loose it.
Antonio Bueno

Claudio Koremblit wrote:

> Address of Clarin newspaperr wrong:
>
> > Regarding an information about the cancellation of the experimental music
> > series in Buenos Aires, Argentina, called Experimenta 98, taken
> > from La Nacion, newspaper, june 7, we suggest to see the
> > article published for Clarin, other argentinian newspaper,
> > that have address on line:
>
> http://www.clarin.com.ar/diario/98-06-09/c-00301d.htm
>
> this is right.
>
> -




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Joe Lovano
Date: 24 Jun 1998 13:05:09 -0400 (EDT)

IMHO Lovano's pinnacle came with his two CD set "Quartets - Live At The
Village Vanguard" on Blue Note. One discs is rather Ornette-y with Tom
Farrell (tmpt), Anthony Cox (b) and Billy Hart (d). The other is more modern
mainstream with Mulgrew Miller (p), Christian McBride (b) and Lewis Nash (d).

I saw Joe with a version of the Mulgrew quartet and he played good, solid
work. But like Hank Mobley or Clifford Jordan, say, Lovano is probably a
tremendously talented player of the second rank. But unlike many of those
guys --and all young lions -- at least he tries to present himself in
different circumstances, even if the experiments don't work.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Scofield
Date: 24 Jun 1998 13:12:57 -0400 (EDT)

MM&W are probably one of the most overrated bands in the world. I saw
them here (Toronto) about three years ago and thought any average
bar/blues/R&B band could play as well.

That and their CDs struck me as being by a rhythm section in search of
someone to back up. That's why the couple of tracks I've heard from the new
Scofield + MM&W CD are so impressive, the three have finally found their
soloist.

BTW, if people are really hot on that kind of "groove" stuff I heard a
band in a similar style last night. It's Slow Poke, featuring Michael
Blake (ss, ts); Dave Tronzo (gtr); Tony Scherr (el bs) and Kenny Woolsen
(d). There ain't much there for the head, but your feet sure tap and
fingers snap.

Ken Waxman
[e-mail]






On Wed, 24 Jun 1998, Circle9 wrote:

> Speaking of Sco, I recently picked up his new one with MMW as his sidecrew. I
> had read some good reviews, but honestly, I was wary about the purchase, it
> being King Wank and all. But this album took me by complete surprise. It rocks!
> Evenm though it's all Sco tunes, it fits very nicely into the MMW discography.
> Far, far better than anything Booker T's done in the last twenty years...
>

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Scofield
Date: 24 Jun 1998 13:30:51 EDT

In a message dated 98-06-24 13:13:50 EDT, Ken Waxman writes:

<< MM&W are probably one of the most overrated bands in the world. I saw
 them here (Toronto) about three years ago and thought any average
 bar/blues/R&B band could play as well.
  >>

I know we've already run this debate.....but I have to say, I'm in total
agreement with this. They sound to me like bad Jimmy Smith outtakes.

Dale.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Scofield (MMW)
Date: 24 Jun 1998 13:02:19 -0500

I know a lot of people who have been bored stiff at MMW shows who have
liked them before.  I can see how this could happen and I am not surprised
by people's comments on them being overrated.  Ken said, "That and their
CDs struck me as being by a rhythm section in search of someone to back
up."  I thought the same thing a while ago too.  I thought becuause of the
leader that the new Scofield disc was going to cheese out too much but, on
the contrary, I find myself listening to it still quite a lot.  I have some
live tapes of MMW with Marc Ribot that are great!

I can't listen to them too much though (I still listen to them a lot).
About them being overrated: That may go for Martin and Wood.  Billy Martin
has a few stock beats that, granted, he can do very well, but I don't think
he strays too far from that.  If I had never heard a Chris Wood bass solo I
would be completely bored with his playing.  However, I think John Medeski
is one of the better players around.  Take his playing on Bar Kohkba for
example.  Also, some of the solos I've heard have blown me away
(particularly on "Jelly Belly").

I do think that they will have to go in a new direction to keep my interest
though.  I am excited to hear the new album that will come out on Blue Note.

In small defense,
Dan



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Patton and zorn
Date: 24 Jun 1998 12:21:03 -0700


On Wed, 24 Jun 1998 11:49:21 EDT  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> In a message dated 6/24/98 11:28:25 AM, [e-mail] wrote:
>
> <<> What I was trying to say is that I don't think Patton is trying to
> immitate
>
> You should have seen his piece at the Victoriaville festival: hard to
> differentiate it from one by Zorn (both from a sound, performance, and setting
> points of view).
>
> I am not saying that he is imitating Zorn, but I would lie by refusing to
> acknowledge that this idea did not leave during the whole performance.
> >>
>
> Personally I thought it was a really bad Masonna imitation. Patton seemed to
> be completely out of ideas after ten minutes. I don't think Zorn's done
> anything that purely "noisy" that I can think of.

Noisy? I don't remember the performance being really so noisy. After the three
compositions directed by Zorn, the one by Patton seemed to me in a not very
different spirit (same form of loose direction, sections with very different
contents, abrupt switches, etc). But I may have already reached music OD at
that time :-).

    Patrice.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  Re: Patton and zorn
Date: 24 Jun 1998 15:44:36 EDT


In a message dated 6/24/98 3:21:15 PM, [e-mail] wrote:

<<> Personally I thought it was a really bad Masonna imitation. Patton seemed
to
> be completely out of ideas after ten minutes. I don't think Zorn's done
> anything that purely "noisy" that I can think of.

Noisy? I don't remember the performance being really so noisy. After the three
compositions directed by Zorn, the one by Patton seemed to me in a not very
different spirit (same form of loose direction, sections with very different
contents, abrupt switches, etc). But I may have already reached music OD at
that time :-).>>

ok, now I understand the confusion. I had forgotten patton's first piece,
which was indeed rather "zornesque". I was talking about the next piece he
did, the one for eight amplifiers.

never mind. :)

Jon

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Al T)
Subject: RE: Electric Miles
Date: 25 Jun 1998 02:36:25 GMT

Actually Big Fun is one of my favorites. It was uncut and others (Aghartha, On
the Corner) weren't? Tell me more, please.

-------------------


I recall people who attended the Miles conferences in St.
Louis reporting that Teo was unhappy with the release of
uncut Miles on the Plugged Nickel and Miles/Gil box sets.
While he may not be opposed to the creation of alternate
versions of the pieces, he did not think it should be
issued as played (especially the electric music-I must
agree that Big Fun is not my favorite Miles album but I
don't see the same logic supporting cutting out bits of
solos from the Blackhawk and Plugged Nickel quintet
dates).

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "m. rizzi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: zorn-list etiquette #102
Date: 24 Jun 1998 14:41:52 -0700 (PDT)

>The place Experimenta has won last year, justified every effort to repeat
>it.

    Time for a refresher lesson on how to reply
    to another zorn-list message.

    DO NOT quote an entire message (especially
    one that is 156 lines long!) for a single
    sentence reply!

    When the length of your message is shorter
    than the message you are replying to, please
    trim the quoted text down to the relevant section(s).

    Why? Because it makes the digests easier to
    read, it conserves bandwidth, and it uses
    less disk space for the archives at xmission.com
    (our generous host...in other words, we ain't
    paying for the disk space, so we should be good
    house guests)

    Thanks,
    mike rizzi
    zorn-list-owner-and-etiquette-queen


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Gretz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Patton imitating Zorn?
Date: 24 Jun 1998 17:44:47 -0400 (EDT)

first of all, if Pranzo did sound like a Zorn composition (which it doesn't,
maybe Elegy but that's about it) you have to take into account that three of
the same players are on both.  Also, about the violenza domestica issue, it is
actually a very complex piece, in fact the band had to rewrite it for live
performances so they could play it (which, if you have ever seen bungle live
you would realize this usually isn't even an issue). And as far as the tracks
on the FNM album go you have to understand that patton seems to enjoy
performing in more of a "noisy" mode so these tunes were probably forced. Zorn
has had his share of bad pieces and so does every other composer.

on another note, Patton was voicing a love of Bacharach in interviews long
before the tribute album came out and his piece on the album was one of the
best ones. Did anybody stop to think for a moment that maybe the song Fantomas
played is gonna be on the tribute album.  I recall someone writing about one of
the Masada gigs in SF recently and how Zorn urged Patton on stage and got all
excited when he came up to sing with them. doesn't sound like Mike is "trying"
to get into any circle of people. if anything, i think zorn respects him maybe
a little more than some of the people who are already "in".


jeff

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Gift Ideas
Date: 25 Jun 1998 00:18:53 EDT

       Well, I'm a recently graduated 18-year old so I suppose that would lend
some authenticity to my opinion (or perhaps strip it of all authenticity).
I'm more of an experimental Jazz/rock fan with a side interest in electronica
and such.  One disk which I see as having a foot (or at least a toe) planted
in each style is Davis Torn's "What Means Solid Travelor?" (which I happened
to receive as a gift from my uncle several years ago).  While it doesn't
really fit into any of the current dance music classifications, It has lush
textures and sampled grooves, but also the ripping guitar which one would
expect from a rock-o-jazzer like Torn.  To me, this is a more effective hybrid
of attack guitar and electronica than the Derek Baily record.  I like way his
guit playing interacts with the beats but I think that the programming by ninj
would leave any serious jungle fan cold.
   Also, if he hasn't checked out the Silver Apples yet that could be a
fun(ny?) gift.  Hearing those recordings gave me a completely different
perspective on modern dance music, as well as the sixties.
   -nick

<<   OK, here's my problem: I have this 18-year old nephew for whom I'd
      like to get a couple of discs as a high school graduation present.
      He's very much into the electronica, big beat, etc. scene (he DJs
      around) but has pretty big ears; I had him listening to Naked City and
      Coltrane ('Ascension'!) at 14. In that my knowledge of the current
      dance genre is minimal at best, I'm looking for suggestions of things
      that stretch those boundaries a bit, something, say, a step (or three)
      beyond Aube or Squarepusher, that he'd enjoy while still providing
      something of a challenge.
       >>

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Parry Gettelman)
Subject: Closed on Account of Rabies
Date: 25 Jun 1998 02:31:52 -0400

I loved it. Hadn't read any Poe since I was a kid and rediscovery through
these quite varied spoken/musical versions of his work was a real thrill.
The version of "The Masque of the Red Death," in particular, is wonderfully
chilling.  I don't usually like recorded versions of literature, but I
found myself driving around w/ this CD in the car for days.

Parry, de-lurking



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "J.T. de Boer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Gift Ideas
Date: 25 Jun 1998 10:44:39 +0200


Try Vernon Reids "Mistaken Identity" for the guitar/bigbeat
combination and the British bands Autechre/Boards of Canada (Warp
records) for dance that's anything but conventional.

Jeroen de Boer

     OK, here's my problem: I have this 18-year old nephew for whom I'd
     like to get a couple of discs as a high school graduation present.
     He's very much into the electronica, big beat, etc. scene (he DJs
     around) but has pretty big ears; I had him listening to Naked City and
     Coltrane ('Ascension'!) at 14. In that my knowledge of the current
     dance genre is minimal at best, I'm looking for suggestions of things
     that stretch those boundaries a bit, something, say, a step (or three)
     beyond Aube or Squarepusher, that he'd enjoy while still providing
     something of a challenge.

     Thanks for the help.

     Brian Olewnick

     NP: Evan Parker    Toward the Margins



-


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Yves Dewulf <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Gift Ideas
Date: 25 Jun 1998 11:48:31 +0200



*Alec Empire: The Geist of Alec Empire (Geist Records)
 Selection of his tracks for the Mille Plateaux-label, not as
 aggresive and punkish as Atari Teenage Riot, but in general very dark.
 Switches between dark ambient, distorted breakbeats (a la Scorn),
 and strange electronic jazz-like things.
 If you are interested in dark, experimental ambient/dance-music the
 Mille Plateaux-label is really a must. A good starting-point
 could be the In Memoriam Gilles Deleuze-compilation.

*Techno-Animal: Another project of Justin Broadrick and Kevin Martin
 (God,Ice,The Sidewinder,Godflesh): industrial dub and
 hardcore/noise with heavy beats!
 Re-Entry (Virgin), Techno Animal Versus Reality (EFA)


 Yves





-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Recent Goodies
Date: 25 Jun 1998 12:49:58 +0200

Hello,

I've just got RUINS - Refusal Fossil [Skin Graft]. There are 12 previously
unreleased tracks and others 8 live with guests. Studio tracks were mastered
by Jim ORourke. Guests in live tracks are Kikuchi Naruyoshi (better known
from TIPOGRAPHICA or as a sax player on Ground Zero Plays Standards), Emi
Eleonda and Yamamoto Seiichi from OMOIDE HATOBA. Absolutely brill CD for all
Ruins' fans.

CIBO MATTO - Viva! La Woman. It's difficult to explain this band. Hip-hop
rhythms, tape loops and fractured pop melodies with trumpet and sax. Two
japaneese women Miho Hatori and Yuka Honda invite some guests including
Dougie Bowne (Honda's ex-husband) on drums, Dave Douglas on trumpet,Joshua
Roseman on trombone, Jay Rodriguez on sax, Rick Lee on horn, Marc Anthony
Thompson, Bernie Worrell on organ. All of that gives exellent eclectic
modern compilation.

Marcin.

BTW
Warsaw Summer Jazz Days videos are ready for trade!!!

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Gift Ideas
Date: 25 Jun 1998 09:27:45 -0300

Try Living Colour's "Vivid", or any Kraftwerk cd. Also Miles' "Doo Bop".

-Hugo, from Argentina

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Duricko/Rock Fed Fuji <[e-mail]>
Subject: Anchorage NYC Coming Events
Date: 25 Jun 1998 08:36:27 -0400 (EDT)

Hi all, I'm brand new to this list, so I have no idea as to whether or not
this was already circulated or not. In the instance that it hasn't, I
though this would be worth checking out.

Take Care,
Jeff

    "Some are born stupid, some achieve stupidity, and some have stupidity
                                thrust upon them."
                  http://pages.nyu.edu/~jad5657  ICQ#3883353


>

>CREATIVE TIME IN THE ANCHORAGE 98
>music, films, performance inside the
>Brooklyn Bridge
>/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
>
>THURS. JUNE 25 -- PLATFORM.NET PRESENTS COLLUDE & INTRUDE 8:30 PM
>$12 advance/$15 day of show. DJ CAM goes on at 9PM promptly
>
>       COLLUDE & INTRUDE, the unification of hip hop culture's four
>elements and its most progressive offshoots MCing, turntablism,
>breakdancing
>       and graffiti art. This unbelievable meeting of the minds and the
>music is hosted by the most innovative Lord Sear and Mums The Schemer.
>       Performers at this once-in-a-lifetime event include 15-year old
>turntable mystic A-Trak of the Invisbl Skratch Picklz (defending 1997
>worldwide
>       DMC champion) with DJ Craze (Krash Dummiez, URB Top 100), The
>X-Ecutioners' Roc Raida with Mista Sinista, France's hip-hop renegade DJ
>       Cam with Channel Live; The Anamolies and the Bronx Monks;
>performance assault from Sir Menelik/Cyclops 4000; innovators of Brisol's
>dub and
>       soul-laced sound system culure Pressure Drop; All City,
>AtomsFamily, Masterminds, Syndicate; Lyricist Lounge young guns AL with
>Punch and
>       Wordsworth; live video projection, pro skate demos by New York
>skate kingpins Zoo York, Rookie and Infamous; breakdancing by originators
>       The Jam On The Groove Crew, Fable & Rocafella, and Kingpins SF;
>live graffiti by Dontay TC5, Selector and Starr Foundation Murals; Pan
>Optic
>       Urban Visuals; the futureevolutionary sounds of hip-hop by artists
>with fully live bands such as Dujeous? (Wax Poetic), Mike Ladd, Anti Pop
>       Consortium, Saul Williams, and Orkestra Cimmarron.
>
>
>FRI. JUNE 26 -- JOHN ZORN'S NIGHT OF RADICAL IMPROVISATIONS 9 PM
>$12 advance/$15 day of show
>
>       John Zorn gathers a group of experimental musicians for an evening
>of radical acoustic improvisation including Mike Patton formerly of Faith
>No
>       More, Min Xiao-Fen with Derek Bailey, Cyro Baptista's "Beat the
>Donkey," and legendary free jazz percussionist Milford Graves.
>
>
>SAT. JUNE 27 -- BLACK METROPOLIS 10 PM $12 in advance/$15 day of show.
>
>       Just yesterday Coltrane, Sun Ra, Jimi Hendrix and so many other
>were musicians who gathered little of the attention they deserved in their
>own
>       country and from their own people. Today, the creative minds of
>"Detroit Techno"- Derrick May, Kevin Saunderson, Carl Craig and Juan
>Atkins to
>       name a few -- stand in a similar position. They are creating music
>that speaks to black people but is seldom heard by them. Hopefully that
>will
>       change, maybe tomorrow. . . Black Metropolis' line-up includes:
>Carl Craig and Juan Atkins; Che Christopher Stackhouse, Malik, Jaymz
>Nylon,
>       Brett Dancer and Gamall.
>
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Marc Downing <[e-mail]>
Subject: NYC gigs
Date: 25 Jun 1998 08:52:43 -0400

Could any of you suggest some NYC shows to check out between July 2 and July 5?


Marc



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  TONIC
Date: 25 Jun 1998 09:39:40 EDT

Any reports on this new TONIC space? Are Zorn's shows here just happening over
the summer or is it a new permanent venue?

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bob Kowalski <[e-mail]>
Subject:  motain
Date: 25 Jun 1998 09:43:53 -0500

Glad to hear so many out there enjoying the excellent recordings under
the Motain/Lovano/Frisell trio (both w/ and without bass.)  The new one
on Winter & Winter is great, although I think I still prefer the first "Live at
the Village Vanguard" recording.  By the way, Charlie Haden's new disc
(I know, which one) with Chris Anderson (I think -- its the "import" w/
Anderson on piano) is another recent disc in heavy cd player rotation
lately.
-=happy listening=-
Bob

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rusty Crump <[e-mail]>
Subject: composing... heh
Date: 25 Jun 1998 09:30:00 -0500

After seeing notices this year for new Masada shows in NYC, an attempt at a
Masada show in Argentina, some west coast Masadas, Zorn & Friends at the
Knit, Tonic stuff, Victo, and now a listing for Zorn in Anchorage,
Alaska... I am moved to recall late last year, when someone said that 1998
was supposed to be the year Zorn toured and played live less, and hunkered
down and composed more.

By no means is live Zorn a bad thing, but I admit I am amused... oh, the
whims of the artist...

Rusty Crump
Oxford, MS/Redding, CA



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rich Williams <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: composing... heh
Date: 25 Jun 1998 09:40:15 -0500

Rusty Crump wrote:
>
> After seeing notices this year for new Masada shows in NYC, an attempt at a
> Masada show in Argentina, some west coast Masadas, Zorn & Friends at the
> Knit, Tonic stuff, Victo, and now a listing for Zorn in Anchorage,
> Alaska...

That would be the Brooklyn Bridge Anchorage in NYC. That is the immense
brownstone caverns that form the base of the bridge approach. A great
place for concerts BTW.
 I hope you haven't given false hope to any real Alaskans  :-)

Rich

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: composing... heh
Date: 25 Jun 1998 08:29:19 -0700


BTW, does anybody know if Zorn still lives part time in Japan?

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jason Tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: TONIC s  p  a  c  e
Date: 25 Jun 1998 12:00:56 -0500

After being hugely disappointed with Herbie Hancock and the Headhunters, I
went down to TONIC to satisfy my still wanting musical evening. As I
rounded the corner of rivington and norfolk, I saw the huge teaming line of
people waiting to get into TONIC. It is safe to say that tonic is the new
hip joint on the downtown NYC jazz scene, thanks to JZ. I walked up to the
door and asked Marc Ribot (whoah), who was catching a breath of fresh air,
why there were so many people on line. He said that the space was filled to
capacity, they were letting people out so more could come in. In the
background I could hear zorn honking and sqwealing away. Motor City is
right around the corner and is a great place to get a cheap beer and dig on
the local biker scene, I highly suggest it for those who are unfamiliar
with the lower east side. (Motor City is on Ludlow St between rivington and
delancy.) After grabbing a quick beer at Motor City, I gave TONIC another
try. There was no line this time and the space was loosly packed. I caught
the second to last song of the night which ended in a flurry of sustained
slightly contrasting notes. The only players I recognized were JZ and
Ribot. There was an asian elect bass player, cello player (erik
Frielander??) , percussion player, and a funked out black trumpet player.
Ribot ripped into a great (almost) solo piece for the last song of the
evening. TONIC was incredibly hot and stuffy, nobody seemed to mind and
neither did I. The sound was good despite all four walls being made of
cement. I guess the audience helped suck up some of the stray sound. I had
seen Brad Schepik and the Commuters play at TONIC with a very sparce crowd,
the sound was pretty bad, then again they were all electrified and Zorn
wasn't. I wonder what is going to happen when MMW plays at TONIC? It could
very well be a complete mad house. Does anyone else think it is really cool
that TONIC does not serve alcohol?



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: composing... heh
Date: 25 Jun 1998 09:13:38 -0700 (PDT)

When a friend of mine spoke to him last summer, she specifically asked
about Japan.  He more or less said he'd had his fill of Japan and wouldn't
be living there anymore.

Cappy D'Angelo
Student at Law - Intellectual Property
Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering
Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion
Victoria, B.C., CANADA







On Thu, 25 Jun 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

>
> BTW, does anybody know if Zorn still lives part time in Japan?
>
>     Patrice.
>
> -
>
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: guts <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #404
Date: 25 Jun 1998 10:42:37 -0700 (PDT)

I must speak up for Scofield, since there seem to be alot of tacit
criticisms of his playing.  Check out his three trio albums with Steve
Swallow and Bob Moses, "Bar Talk," "Shinola," and "Out Like A Light."
Not only is the playing burning but its harmonically interesting as well.
Not at all the "straight ahead" style Sco is so often slammed for.




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Troy Whitfield <[e-mail]>
Subject: MMW
Date: 25 Jun 1998 13:02:00 -0400

Dan Hewins wrote:

> I can't listen to them too much though (I still listen to them a
> lot). About them being overrated: That may go for Martin and Wood.
>  Billy Martin has a few stock beats that, granted, he can do very
> well, but I don't think he strays too far from that.  If I had
> never heard a Chris Wood bass solo I would be completely bored
> with his playing.  However, I think John Medeski is one of the
> better players around.  Take his playing on Bar Kohkba for example.
> Also, some of the solos I've heard have blown me away
> (particularly on "Jelly Belly").

I just thought I'd chime in with my agreement here.  I don't really know
this group, apart from seeing them live once (I think it may have been
the same show that Ken Waxman mentioned - it was at the Air Canada tent
as one of the $2 afternoon shows during the '95 or '96 du Maurier
Downtown Jazz Fesitval in Toronto).  At that show however, I was pretty
underwhelmed, except for Medeski's rare solos.

Troy

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: John Dikeman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Best of Naked City
Date: 25 Jun 1998 13:54:56 -0600

I've been listening to Zorn for a short time now, and really like what
I hear, But I am looking to get another Naked City CD.  I already have
Naked City, but, what should I buy next?

john Dikeman

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Best of Naked City
Date: 25 Jun 1998 15:02:35 -0500

A couple of months ago we talked extensively about Naked City and all their
albums.  You should check out the digests from March/April, I don't
remember exacly...  I recommend "Radio" but some of the other listers liked
that one the least.  Read the past.

Dan

At 2:54 PM -0500 6/25/98, John Dikeman wrote:
>I've been listening to Zorn for a short time now, and really like what
>I hear, But I am looking to get another Naked City CD.  I already have
>Naked City, but, what should I buy next?
>
>john Dikeman
>
>-




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: TONIC s  p  a  c  e
Date: 26 Jun 1998 01:25:29 -0400

Jason Tors wrote:

> The only players I recognized were JZ and
> Ribot. There was an asian elect bass player, cello player (erik
> Frielander??) , percussion player, and a funked out black trumpet player.

In order, Kato Hideki, Erik Friedlander, Cyro Baptista and Roy Campbell, Jr.
Mark Feldman played early in the evening.  All of this lineup information is
received secondhand... I never got in, but it was my own fault... got there
early for the end of Peter Epstein's second set earlier in the evening, and the
room was pretty empty.  That entire crowd materialized between 10 and 11, while
I was a few blocks away at the Luna Lounge knocking back a beer with a friend.
Tonic is still in the process of securing its own liquor license, so right now
it's strictly coffees, teas, juices and sodas.

Tonight things were much more sane, as I got to go to Dave Douglas's show after
all.  The band, as I mentioned a few days ago, was trumpters DD, Roy Campbell
and Cuong Vu, all of whom were marvellous and very individual and distinctive.
Drew Gress has quietly become one of my very favorite bassists for his solid
support, melodicism and quick ear... he's always able to play something
appropriate for whatever's going on in front.  And Susie Ibarra remains a
genuine marvel, a beautiful, beautiful musician with bottomless style in a free
setting and a mean sense of swing to boot... for some reason a lot of her
straight playing tonight reminded me of Mingus drummer Dannie Richmond.  There
were free blows, ensemble pieces for the trumpets alone, duets for Dave and
Susie, Cuong and Drew, and plenty of solo space for all.  Plus gobs and gobs of
Rahsaan Roland Kirk material, not just the few odd pieces Dave had promised.

Can't wait for Sunday, Derek Bailey and Susie.  But you won't get me within a
mile of that place on MMW's night (and if you're not early, you won't get
*yourself* within a mile either).  Pain Killer will be enough of a madhouse for
me, methinks.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject:       Re: motian/lovano/frisell
Date: 26 Jun 1998 09:22:36 GMT0BST

The third album actually has Marc Johnson on bass, and adds Lee
Konitz on also and soprano.  When this line-up played Glasgow three
years later, they claimed to have recorded a fourth album ... but it
never appeared.

Sean Wilkie

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject:       Re: Coltrane
Date: 26 Jun 1998 09:29:02 GMT0BST

British TV have just finished a six show series of Jazz Legends.
Pretty much as you'd expect: the Monk show was the best, the Mulligan
the worst.  But the Coltrane programme featured some snippets of
footage I'd never seen before: I'd previously seen a "all surviving
footage" show which included the Miles Quintet of 1959, and then two
(?) German(?) TV shows of the Quartet, from 1961 (with Dolphy) and
1963.  The "new" footage featured Vigil and Naima.  Anybody come
across this anywhere else?  It was recorded in a large hall with
an audience seated in rows.

Sean Wilkie

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject:       Re: Miles
Date: 26 Jun 1998 09:43:55 GMT0BST

Agharta is uncut.  (I was going to say because it's live, but that
didn't prevent the Fillmore East and Live Evil albums from being
spliced and - the former - even looped!).  But Big Fun and On the
Corner are presumed to bear the mark of post-production ...

Incidentally, that is still one of my biggest disappointments about
Panthalassa - that Laswell (or any of the FOUR sleeve-note writers)
doesn't clue us in to the nature of the source material.

(Before anyone replies, I have read the piece where he describes the
8 track masters of In a Silent Way, and the 30 minute version of the
title piece, from which he presents us with a bonus 55 seconds,
whoopee!)

Sean Wilkie

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Miles
Date: 26 Jun 1998 08:48:23 -0500 (CDT)

On Fri, 26 Jun 1998, DR S WILKIE wrote:

> Agharta is uncut.  (I was going to say because it's live, but that
> didn't prevent the Fillmore East and Live Evil albums from being
> spliced and - the former - even looped!).  But Big Fun and On the
> Corner are presumed to bear the mark of post-production ...

It's been a while since I've heard Big Fun, but I recall a section where
three trumpet solos are overlaid. Either that was postproduction, or Miles
was even more amazing than I thought... :-)

- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Best of Naked City
Date: 26 Jun 1998 23:59:59 +1000

> I've been listening to Zorn for a short time now, and really like what
> I hear, But I am looking to get another Naked City CD.  I already have
> Naked City, but, what should I buy next?

Yes, Radio is the logical second choice. Torture Garden's pretty much
essential too, but you're better off getting Grand Guignol since the tracks
overlap.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Recent Goodies
Date: 27 Jun 1998 00:20:19 +1000

> I've just got RUINS - Refusal Fossil [Skin Graft]. There are 12
previously
> unreleased tracks and others 8 live with guests. Studio tracks were
mastered
> by Jim ORourke. Guests in live tracks are Kikuchi Naruyoshi (better known
> from TIPOGRAPHICA or as a sax player on Ground Zero Plays Standards), Emi
> Eleonda and Yamamoto Seiichi from OMOIDE HATOBA. Absolutely brill CD for
all
> Ruins' fans.

There's something which has sort of intrigued me about this since I bought
it a few months ago. Who plays vibes on Gravestone?


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Charles Gillett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Anchorage NYC Coming Events
Date: 26 Jun 1998 09:46:20 +0000

On Thu, 25 Jun 1998 08:36:27 -0400 (EDT), <[e-mail]> wrote:
> >CREATIVE TIME IN THE ANCHORAGE 98
> >music, films, performance inside the
> >Brooklyn Bridge
> >/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
> >
> >FRI. JUNE 26 -- JOHN ZORN'S NIGHT OF RADICAL IMPROVISATIONS 9 PM
> >$12 advance/$15 day of show
> >
> >       John Zorn gathers a group of experimental musicians for an evening
> >of radical acoustic improvisation including Mike Patton formerly of Faith
> >No More, Min Xiao-Fen with Derek Bailey, Cyro Baptista's "Beat the
> >Donkey," and legendary free jazz percussionist Milford Graves.

   Aarrgh.  I'm scheduled to arrive at La Guardia at 8:50pm or so.
Will this be a Tonic-esque madhouse, or is the anchorage more
spacious?  I suppose I'll find out when I get there....


-- Charles


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bob Kowalski <[e-mail]>
Subject: downtown serenade
Date: 26 Jun 1998 10:08:43 -0500

Anyone have the scoop on the sound of the new disc "Downtown
Serenade" featuring Wayne Horovitz, John Zorn, and two others (I think
Previte might be on this...actually, not even 100% positive about the title -
just glanced at it in the shop.)  Is this as straight forward a ballad - to -
the - city / jazz quartet as it appears?  Would love to know.

Bob

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: downtown serenade
Date: 26 Jun 1998 08:53:19 -0700


On Fri, 26 Jun 1998 10:08:43 -0500  Bob Kowalski wrote:
>
> Anyone have the scoop on the sound of the new disc "Downtown
> Serenade" featuring Wayne Horovitz, John Zorn, and two others (I think
> Previte might be on this...actually, not even 100% positive about the title -
> just glanced at it in the shop.)  Is this as straight forward a ballad - to -
> the - city / jazz quartet as it appears?  Would love to know.

Yes, Wayne is on the balcony and Zorn shows up with his violin. After
some failed attempts at attracting attention from Wayne, Elliott shows
up on the far left of the scene with his mandolin. According to some
rumours, Bobby was there in the early evening but his drum playing
did not do too much to Wayne.

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: response to patton & bennink
Date: 26 Jun 1998 12:08:59 -0400

>So my question is: has someone ever heard any recordings, saw some
>concerts by these two guys???

yep. patton did a show with david slusser and han bennink at the
saalfelden jazz festival a few years ago. it was a great show. there are
video and audio versions of this show floating around. i have a copy of
the video. ok.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Big Fun
Date: 26 Jun 1998 12:04:08 EDT

In a message dated 98-06-26 10:16:08 EDT, Joseph S. Zitt writes:

<< It's been a while since I've heard Big Fun, but I recall a section where
 three trumpet solos are overlaid. Either that was postproduction, or Miles
 was even more amazing than I thought... :-)
  >>

Big Fun in general, and this passage specifically, have always been among my
favorite examples of Miles, regardless of how it was done. It was either
studio multitracking, or possibly, by using an echoplex with a really long
delay time. Its a beautifully simple passage - Miles playing a gentle, slow
blues, almost in completely free time, with minimal backup from bass and
drums. To me, its just totally beautiful.

Dale.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: downtown serenade
Date: 27 Jun 1998 02:07:28 +1000

> Anyone have the scoop on the sound of the new disc "Downtown
> Serenade" featuring Wayne Horovitz, John Zorn, and two others (I think
> Previte might be on this...actually, not even 100% positive about the
title -
> just glanced at it in the shop.)  Is this as straight forward a ballad -
to -
> the - city / jazz quartet as it appears?  Would love to know.

He shoots, he scores! Patrice's answer was more interesting and informative
than this will be, but I might as well give you some more info since I've
got nothing better to do. The cd you speak of would be "Downtown Lullaby"
by Zorn/Horvitz/Sharp/Previte. It's released on Depth Of Field, and it
ain't no straight forward a ballad blah blah as it appears (if it did ever
appear so). It's an improv-ish thing, ok?


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Laswell/Marley
Date: 26 Jun 1998 18:54:03 UT

Apparently this has been out for a while, but I don't have the proper title for
it.
Could someone tell me what it's called and what label it's on?
And maybe a little bit about it.

Thanks,
Peter

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Laswell/Marley
Date: 26 Jun 1998 11:54:43 -0700

At 06:54 PM 6/26/98 +0000, [e-mail] wrote:
>Apparently this has been out for a while, but I don't have the proper
title for
>it.
>Could someone tell me what it's called and what label it's on?
>And maybe a little bit about it.

Check the Axiom Label pages at the Axiom Web Site below.


Jeff Spirer
B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/
Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html
Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Hewins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Frith Bands
Date: 26 Jun 1998 14:31:42 -0500

I was trying to get info on some of Frith's bands, Art Bears and Skeleton
Crew.  I was successful at AMG in finding the correct Art Bears but the
Skeleton Crew was not a band invlolving Frith.  I found some RA soundclips
from the Skeleton Crew album "Prehistoric...Dig" and it DEFINITELY isn't
Frith.  Hmmm.... anyone know anything about Skeleton Crew?

Thanks,
Dan



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Frith Bands
Date: 26 Jun 1998 15:39:44 -0500


Dan wrote:

>I was trying to get info on some of Frith's bands, Art Bears and Skeleton
>Crew.  I was successful at AMG in finding the correct Art Bears but the
>Skeleton Crew was not a band invlolving Frith.  I found some RA soundclips
>from the Skeleton Crew album "Prehistoric...Dig" and it DEFINITELY isn't
>Frith.  Hmmm.... anyone know anything about Skeleton Crew?

     Check Patrice's Frith discography on the web. Skeleton Crew (Frith,
     Tom Cora and Zeena Parkins) put out one of the finest, IMHO, "rock"
     albums of the 80's, COUNTRY OF BLINDS on Rift. I _think_ it's out
     there somewhere on disc...

     Brian Olewnick


-





-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "De Kater" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Frith Bands
Date: 26 Jun 1998 21:52:31 +0200

 Skeleton Crew was a group with Fred Frith and Tom Cora and later on Zeena
Parkins. They made two albums: 'Learn to talk'  (RecRec 05/Rift 08
-1983/1984)and 'The Country of Blinds' (RecRec 12/Rift 11 - 1985/1986).
There is also a cd with this material (reCDec 512), but it seams out of
sale at the moment.
Distribution by: RecRec Genossenschaft, P.O. Box 717, 8026 Zurich,
Switzerland. Tel. [phone], Fax [phone].
Jan Luyben

... anyone know anything about Skeleton Crew?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
>
>
>
> -
>

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: ScottRussell <[e-mail]>
Subject: God
Date: 26 Jun 1998 21:02:26 +0100

--MimeMultipartBoundary
Content-Type: text/plain

Anyone care to comment on K Martin's outfit God? I saw a disc today
which looked interesting. Feat Zorn amongst many other guests. I'm
expecting some kind of grindcore... Good, bad, neither?



Scott Russell
--MimeMultipartBoundary--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Frith Bands
Date: 26 Jun 1998 13:09:10 -0700


On Fri, 26 Jun 1998 21:52:31 +0200  "De Kater" wrote:
>
>  Skeleton Crew was a group with Fred Frith and Tom Cora and later on Zeena

The first incarnation had also (ex-Muffins) Dave Newhouse, later replaced
by Zeena.

    Patrice.

PS: be ready for a significant update of the Frith discography (jumping
from 200 to 250 recording listed!).

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: God /Sugarbullet?
Date: 26 Jun 1998 16:05:47 -0500




>Anyone care to comment on K Martin's outfit God? I saw a disc today
>which looked interesting. Feat Zorn amongst many other guests. I'm
>expecting some kind of grindcore... Good, bad, neither?

     I have two releases, POSSESSION and ANATOMY OF ADDICTION, both on
     Earache. They're pretty good, nice and noisy. Something about the, to
     me, rather affected angst of that whole "isolationist" school leaves
     me cold (maybe that's the point), but they're OK.

     But this reminds me, for some reason: About five or six years ago,
     Zorn, as he often did back then, was DJ'ing a broadcast on WKCR here
     in NY. During one set, he played a piece by a band I _think_ he
     identified as 'Sugarbullet'. It was probably the most effective
     combination of thrash/rap/noise that I'd ever heard. Aside from that
     one snatch, I've never been able to locate anything but a passing
     mention of this or that EP on some ancient auction lists. Anyone here
     know anything about 'em?

     Brian Olewnick




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rich Williams <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Frith Bands
Date: 26 Jun 1998 16:22:13 -0500

Dan Hewins wrote:
 Hmmm.... anyone know anything about Skeleton Crew?


    They started off in 1982 as a trio. Fred ,Tom Cora and Dave
Newhouse(former member of DC based band The Muffins) This version lasted
only a few months, after Newhouse left, they continued on as a duo for a
couple of years, then added Zeena Parkins. The concept of the band was
of 2(or3) one-man-bands playing simultaneously. Each member played 2 or
3 instruments, and a piece of a drum kit.
    They toured extensively, recorded 2 albums(which were re-released as a
2on1 CD) and disbanded in 1986. Definitely one of my favorite bands of
the 80's. Their concerts were always loose and playful, with a great
deal of humor involved. They used to do a hysterical version of
Massacre's Killing Time with Fred soloing on a home-made guitar that
resembled a length of 2X4 with pegs. The music was mostly song based,
with widely divergent influences(Only Skeleton Crew could pull off a set
that included music by The Art Bears and Jelly-Roll Morton!),  and both
Fred and Tom sang, though every once in a while they would chuck the
book and do a concert length Free-improv, or a set of traditional folk
tunes from around the world. Skeleton Crew was sometimes the  "House"
band for CISPES(Citizens in Solidarity with The People Of El Salvador)
events in New York, which led to another permutation where Fred and Tom
led an impromptu marching band during a demonstration in Washington DC.
    I had always hoped that they would have a reunion, but TC's passing
makes that impossible, .  BTW, can anyone offer a review of The Cora
Tribute concert at the knit last month?

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Frith Bands
Date: 26 Jun 1998 14:16:16 -0700


On Fri, 26 Jun 1998 16:22:13 -0500  Rich Williams wrote:
>
> Dan Hewins wrote:
>  Hmmm.... anyone know anything about Skeleton Crew?
>
>     I had always hoped that they would have a reunion, but TC's passing
> makes that impossible, .  BTW, can anyone offer a review of The Cora
> Tribute concert at the knit last month?

Interesting that you are saying that because a recent Skeleton Crew record has
been issued:


247 - ETYMOLOGY: Fred Frith, Tom Cora

    Recorded at the Koeinverhuurbdrijf Studio, Purmerland (Netherlands) during
    Fall 1995

    Produced by Tom Dimuzio
  Fred Frith (1-54): guitar, electromagnetic translations; Tom Cora (37-95):
  cello, cello resonated objects.

    1997 - Rarefaction (USA), RF13 (CD)
    1997 - Rarefaction (USA), RF12 (CD-ROM)


see: http://www.rarefaction.com/crewbios.htm

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rich Williams <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Anchorage NYC Coming Events
Date: 26 Jun 1998 16:33:12 -0500

Charles Gillett wrote:
 I'm scheduled to arrive at La Guardia at 8:50pm or so.
> Will this be a Tonic-esque madhouse, or is the anchorage more
> spacious?

The Anchorage is a series of brownstone chambers underneath the Approach
to the Brooklyn Bridge. 40 foot high ceilings, catwalks...sculptures on
display... its quite the place. I saw Diamanda Galas there and it scared
the bejesus out of me. The place is totally made of stone so its LOUD in
there, but otherwise quite comfortable, as far as caverns go...


Rich

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Anchorage NYC Coming Events
Date: 26 Jun 1998 14:30:30 -0700

At 04:33 PM 6/26/98 -0500, Rich Williams wrote:
>Charles Gillett wrote:
> I'm scheduled to arrive at La Guardia at 8:50pm or so.
>> Will this be a Tonic-esque madhouse, or is the anchorage more
>> spacious?
>
>The Anchorage is a series of brownstone chambers underneath the Approach
>to the Brooklyn Bridge. 40 foot high ceilings, catwalks...sculptures on
>display... its quite the place. I saw Diamanda Galas there and it scared
>the bejesus out of me. The place is totally made of stone so its LOUD in
>there, but otherwise quite comfortable, as far as caverns go...

This might give a feel for the Anchorage:

http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/praxis.html


>
>
>Rich
>
>-
>

Jeff Spirer
B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/
Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html
Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Felix" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Weird Little Boy/ Mark Feldman sig
Date: 26 Jun 1998 23:47:57 +0200

Two things:

Just got Weird Little Boy (thanks for the info, BTW) and was wondering who
this Dennis Cooper is. Anyone know? His texts are pretty good, the kind of
poetry I like the most. Was the music in the album written (?) for them?

I noticed that Mark Feldman uses sort of a musical signature in his playing!
If you have the Caine/Mahler CD, put it on track 6 and wait for the 1 minute
or so, you'll hear Feldman sort of screaching with the violin. Now, if you
also have Zorn's Kristallnacht, put track 5 playing and wait for the 7
minute 10 seconds or so - there's the same almost exact sound! There's also
a track in Bar Kokhba that has this signature (can't remember which right
now - it's one of the hardest trio ones). Has anyone else noticed it or am I
just imagining things? Is it a signature or lack of inspiration?

Felix
[e-mail]



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Tosh)
Subject: Dennis Cooper
Date: 26 Jun 1998 17:43:02 -0700 (PDT)

Dennis Cooper is a wonderful writer.  Check out his latest novel GUIDE!  It
is published by Grove, and one can see his whole catalog of works (I
imagine) on the Amazon site.

-----------------
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
----------------



-



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From: "Jeff Schuth" <[e-mail]>
Subject: New York Clubs
Date: 27 Jun 1998 07:18:29 PDT

HI, I will be going to New York in August.  I have never been there, but
I know they have alot of cool jazz clubs.  Does anyone know whats going
on in August?  Also, I am 18 years old.  Do you have to be twenty one to
get in most places?  If yes, is it o.k if you are with an adult?
Thanx


Jeff Schuth
                "http://members.xoom.com/jschuth"


______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Gene Coleman/Polwechsel at Roulette
Date: 27 Jun 1998 12:30:44 -0400

Figuring the rest of the NYC new music community would be splitting time
between JZ and Co. at the Anchorage and Diamanda Galas at the Knit, and
since I've wanted to hear this band for several years, I (and only about
20 others) took in the show by Polwechsel with guest artist Gene Coleman
last evening.

Polwechsel is an Austrian trio (Werner Dafeldecker, bass and
electronics; Michale Moser, cello; Burkhard Stangl, guitars and piano);
Coleman's a bass clarinetist out of Chicago who's worked with Jim
O'Rourke. They performed five pieces, two compositions by Coleman, one
by Stangl and two improvs. I enjoyed the improvisations the most, by
far; the composed pieces were a bit static and dry for my taste.
Virtually everything the group played was very quiet (don't know if this
is the norm), the improvs venturing very nicely into subdued AMM
territory. Dafeldecker (easily the best name of the year!) was
especially impressive both for his rich, deep arco tone on bass and for
the extreme pains he took at his electronics table, coaxing the quietest
and most subtle sounds from his apparatus.

Stangl was also quite enjoyable, utilizing a number of post-Frithian
techniques including producing an, again, very quiet low rumble from his
electric guitar that provided a wonderful base for much of the improvs.
Moser and Coleman were, I thought, somewhat less interesting, though I'd
hesitate to make any generalizations from this one show; I can easily
imagine that performances from this bunch vary widely. All showed a good
capacity for listening closely to each other.

I know Polwechsel has an pending release on Hatology; if anyone can
review this or prior releases if theirs, I'd be interested to hear. For
that matter, if anyone knows of Gene Coleman's previous work (I've only
heard him on Gastr del Sol's 'Upgrade and Afterlife'), I'd be curious
about that too.

Thanks to Caleb Deupree for posting the announcement of this event;
Roulette's calendar is over a month behind and I wouldn't have known
otherwise.

Brian Olewnick

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jason J. Tar" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Stone cd for trade.
Date: 27 Jun 1998 13:10:36 -0400

Hello,
Might anyone want _Mom's_ on cd?  I'm looking to trade it.  Interested in
getting _Fear No Love_ by Bob Ostertag in return.  (Or open to other offers
if not.)  Also have Naked City _Absinthe_ for trade.

Thanks.

JJTar

BTW--The God cds I have are all on Pathological, Virgin, or Big Cat...NOT
Earache.  Good heavy grindcore, very dense.  Zorn appears on _Possession_.
If anybody has "Consumed" for trade/sale, I'd be extremely interested in
acquiring it!  I still lack that disc.  Thanks.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  Gene Coleman/Polwechsel at Roulette
Date: 27 Jun 1998 13:35:27 EDT


In a message dated 6/27/98 12:58:56 PM, [e-mail] wrote:

<<Figuring the rest of the NYC new music community would be splitting time
between JZ and Co. at the Anchorage and Diamanda Galas at the Knit, and
since I've wanted to hear this band for several years, I (and only about
20 others) took in the show by Polwechsel with guest artist Gene Coleman
last evening.>>

well, I was one of those 20. I was up in the front row on the left with my
friend. where were you, Brian?

<< I enjoyed the improvisations the most, by far; the composed pieces were a
bit static and dry for my taste.>>

I actually felt that the compositions cohered more while the improv was a bit
aimless. of course, this might have had something to do with my attention span
since the improv was last and the air conditioning had been turned off before
the show started, since it interfered with their sparse, quiet pieces.

<<I know Polwechsel has an pending release on Hatology; if anyone can
review this or prior releases if theirs, I'd be interested to hear. For
that matter, if anyone knows of Gene Coleman's previous work (I've only
heard him on Gastr del Sol's 'Upgrade and Afterlife'), I'd be curious
about that too.>>

well, I'm pretty sure the only polwechsel release available is on random
acoustics. it's the three austrians with the addition of malfatti, and while I
haven't heard it yet, I'll be picking it up soon.

I know coleman is on the recent guillermo gregorio record on hatology and on
the recent set of anthony braxton compostions on hat(now). I don't know of any
records featuring his compositions but I'd be curious to hear them.

<<Thanks to Caleb Deupree for posting the announcement of this event;
Roulette's calendar is over a month behind and I wouldn't have known
otherwise. >>

yeah, definitely. thanks, caleb. it's too bad that roulette gigs aren't better
publicized.

Jon

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jonas Thompson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: re: coltrane
Date: 27 Jun 1998 13:16:23 MDT

i vaguely remember the world according to john coltrane video which
featured some b&w european live footage from '63, with devastating
performances of naima and maybe my favorite things (?), but i don't
recall vigil. is this the same stuff?

either way, is the original film of the complete concert, or just these
snippets?

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Sibree/Wilkes)
Subject: Zorn vinyl
Date: 28 Jun 1998 11:46:44 +0800

Just to let you know that there are a few Zorn and other relevant lps in
the list I recently posted to rec.music.marketplace.vinyl.  Look for NUMBAT
JAZZ AUCTION LIST 4 - FREE JAZZ/AVANT GARDE, or email me direct for
details.  I am not a dealer.  Apologies for the spam.

Billy



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Claudio Koremblit" <[e-mail]>
Subject:
Date: 28 Jun 1998 01:01:17 -0300

> De: Rusty Crump <[e-mail]>
> A: [e-mail]
> Asunto: composing... heh
> Fecha: Jueves 25 de Junio de 1998 11:30
>
> After seeing notices this year for new Masada shows in NYC, an attempt at
a
> Masada show in Argentina, some west coast Masadas...

Hello, I would like to know how do you knew about a possible Masada's show
in Argentina...this notice was announced in this list?

thanks, ck

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Chris Genzel)
Subject: Wild Palms
Date: 28 Jun 1998 19:45:13 +0200


 Hi!

 On Ryuichi Sakamoto's soundtrack to "Wild Palms" (a wonderful disc, by the way),
 there are uncredited vocals (female) on tracks 3 ("Harry To Hospital") and 11
 ("Tully Hooked"). Does anybody know who these vocalists are?

 Kind regards,
 - Chris.

 ---------------------------------------------
 *    Chris Genzel --- [e-mail]    *
 * Homepage & Herbie Hancock discography at: *
 *    http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil/   *
 ---------------------------------------------


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Simon Hopkins <[e-mail]>
Subject: God
Date: 28 Jun 1998 19:11:55 +0000


>
>Anyone care to comment on K Martin's outfit God? I saw a disc today
>which looked interesting. Feat Zorn amongst many other guests. I'm
>expecting some kind of grindcore... Good, bad, neither?
>
>
For sound sample-accompanied reviews of some of Kevin Martin and Justin
Broadrick'ss more recent work with Techno Animal and Ice and as a
collaborators with Alec Empire on "Curse of the Golden Vampire" check out
the ---+motion website:

http://www.state51.co.uk/motion/

Cheers!

Simon & Dan @ state51



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: CD's for sale
Date: 28 Jun 1998 18:58:23 EDT

Greetings all,

For any of you that might be interested, IÆm having a CD sale. ThereÆs over
150 items, everything from Debbie Gibson to Painkiller, and most of these are
in the $4 - $7 range. Email me privately for the list, and thanks for your
interest!

Dale.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: philz <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Frith Bands
Date: 28 Jun 1998 22:40:36 -0400

Dan Hewins wrote:

>I was trying to get info on some of Frith's bands, Art Bears and Skeleton
>Crew.  I was successful at AMG in finding the correct Art Bears but the
>Skeleton Crew was not a band invlolving Frith.  I found some RA soundclips
>from the Skeleton Crew album "Prehistoric...Dig" and it DEFINITELY isn't
>Frith.  Hmmm.... anyone know anything about Skeleton Crew?

I've actually seen the album you're talking about and scratched my head
wondering if this was the same band as Frith & Cora's... the answer is
definitely not, it's some rock band (I believe) that happened to take the
same name.  What you're looking for is either of the vinyl records _Learn
to Talk_ or _Country of Blinds_, or the single Recommended Record cd that
puts those two together, though missing a couple of tracks.

Awesome stuff, top of my list with No Safety and the early Naked City records.

philz

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: concrete music
Date: 29 Jun 1998 14:27:06 -0300 (GMT-0300)


Hello, anybody can explain what is the concrete music, musician, what about
his 50 years of life, and what about electronic music, any information ...
Txs in advance.

    .Pablo.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: concrete music
Date: 29 Jun 1998 10:41:18 -0700


On Mon, 29 Jun 1998 14:27:06 -0300 (GMT-0300)  [e-mail] wrote:
>
>
> Hello, anybody can explain what is the concrete music, musician, what about
> his 50 years of life, and what about electronic music, any information ...
> Txs in advance.

Musique Concrete restricted its use of sound material to the ones produced
exclusively by natural ways (no synthetic sounds): foot steps, sqweaky door, etc.
Electric instruments were used to manipulate these sounds, but not to produce
them.

Electronic music started soon after in Cologne (1951), and was based on sounds
produced synthetically (with basic electronic wave generators).

Then musique concrete and electronic music fused (which you could easily expect)
and the name musique concrete belongs to begone time.

    Patrice.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Winter & Winter
Date: 29 Jun 1998 15:33:57 -0500


     Well, this seems to be a slow day in the JZ Corral, so I thought I'd
     indulge myself in some spleen-venting:

     Picked up the Uri Caine 'Urlicht' CD the other day; from one listen,
     it seems to be a very fine work--that's not the problem. I think there
     was a Winter & Winter discussion here a while back, though I didn't
     follow it much, so this might have already been brought up, but:

     This is the UGLIEST graphics/packaging job I've seen in a long, long
     time! I had always found the JMT releases to be bad enough, sterile,
     awful colors, shallow, etc., but this canary yellow faux corduroy wins
     the ugly award hands down. The bland booklet isn't too offensive (and,
     I guess, you have to give them credit for offering six translations of
     the notes, though the notes themselves are blather) but the CD docking
     station is clunky at best, the disc settling in with a disturbing
     'click'. Blecch. Worst design idea I've seen since the hat Art
     Double-LP boxes fromt he early 80's--anyone else still get annoyed
     while sliding in the record next to one of these and having it catch
     on the hidden lip? At least hat Art has progressed to those neat,
     sleek envelopes they're using now (also got the Taku Sugimoto disc on
     hat Noir--what a contrast!). OK, I feel better now.

     The Caine disc does sound fine though; a ripe avenue for exploration,
     I think. Love to hear an orchestra of free improvisors tackle some
     Scriabin or, heaven forfend, Rachmaninov's 'Isle of the Dead'!

     Brian Olewnick



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: About Skeleton Crew
Date: 29 Jun 1998 12:42:36 -0700


The following is sent on behalf of Stephane Vuilleumier:

RecRec just told me last week that the double reissue
of the 2 Skeleton Crew LPs on one CD RecDec 512 has
just become available again in a new pressing.
Somebody said that Skeleton Crew disbanded in 86
but I think I last saw them in July? 87.
If somebody's desperate for the integral content
of the 2 LPs (there's no real reason for that, the
one song from each LP which is missing is probably
the weakest to end-of-the-90s ears), I'm sure there's
lots of copies of the LPs still floating around.

        Stephane


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Winter & Winter
Date: 29 Jun 1998 12:57:20 -0700


On Mon, 29 Jun 98 15:33:57 -0500  [e-mail] wrote:
>
>      Picked up the Uri Caine 'Urlicht' CD the other day; from one listen,
>      it seems to be a very fine work--that's not the problem. I think there
>      was a Winter & Winter discussion here a while back, though I didn't
>      follow it much, so this might have already been brought up, but:
>
>      This is the UGLIEST graphics/packaging job I've seen in a long, long
    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Really? Then I assume that you are not buying records very often :-).

I personnally think that the design is gorgeous and I am affraid that, as with
most digipack, it won't age gracefully. Also annoyed that getting the record
out can lead to some scratches. But besides that, I find the design fantastic.

I would be curious to know what you consider a gorgeous design.

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jason Tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: good package design
Date: 29 Jun 1998 16:21:50 -0500

I think that the new Downtown Lullaby package and design is great. The
type, photos, material, and silkscreening on the cd all work very well
together. Does anyone know who the designer at DOF is?
At the anchorage I was talking to this crazy french guy named Marco. He and
a bunch of his runarounds are filming a documentary on the DT jazz scene.
Does anyone know if this has been done before? Marco said that he and his
crew were well recieved by everyone for various interviews and the like.



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re[2]: Winter & Winter
Date: 29 Jun 1998 16:35:43 -0500



I wrote:
>      This is the UGLIEST graphics/packaging job I've seen in a long, long
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Patrice responded:

>Really? Then I assume that you are not buying records very often :-).

     Right. I wish ;-). FWIW, I'm coming at this from a background as a
     painter, so many of the album designs I find most teeth-gratingly bad
     are those using paintings as covers. Off the top of my head, some that
     stick out as particularly irksome: Vol 2 of the Creative Construction
     Company (if anyone remembers that far back), Julius Hemphill's
     'Georgia Blue', Michael Smith's 'Geo Music' (if anyone knows _that_
     one, I'll be impressed), Sonny Sharrock's 'Dance with Me, Montana'
     (phew! absolutely horrid!), gosh, so many more...Sun Ra's
     'Astro-Black'...the entire list would be looong...

>I personnally think that the design is gorgeous and I am affraid that, as
>with most digipack, it won't age gracefully. Also annoyed that getting the
>record out can lead to some scratches. But besides that, I find the design
>fantastic.

>I would be curious to know what you consider a gorgeous design.

        Well, in recent years, of course, virtually all of Ikue Mori's work,
        much of Thi Linh-Le's. I've always been fond of the painting on the
        front of Rahsaan's 'Natural Black Inventions: Root Strata' (also a
        great, great record). And, for that matter, the cover of the _1st_
        volume of CCC was pretty nice. The Table of the Elements series, the hat
        Art classical series (the red and white covers), etc, etc...

        Brian Olewnick





-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Artur Nowak" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: good package design
Date: 29 Jun 1998 23:53:45 +0200

> I think that the new Downtown Lullaby package and design is great. The
> type, photos, material, and silkscreening on the cd all work very well
> together.

NOT! The type is too small (I'm tired of Corel types...), photos are
amatour-like, material is too soft. BAD cover design.

Now we will talk about CD-packaging. If everything is already said about
the music, why not?  :-)

     __________________________________________________________________
     Artur Nowak [[e-mail]]
     www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/default.htm - Discography of Bill Frisell



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Artur Nowak" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Winter & Winter
Date: 29 Jun 1998 23:53:49 +0200


> >      This is the UGLIEST graphics/packaging job I've seen
> in a long, long
>     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> I personnally think that the design is gorgeous

I agree with Patrice! But I have to agree with Brian also: this way of
packaging CD's is not practical. And he's right about JMT as well: their
design was macabre, just take look at any of Tim Berne records or
"Tongue in Groove" YAK! This type of design sais: "if you think this is
bad art, you will love it after listening to the music!" I'm lucky to be
on this mailing list: I don't have to choose records after cover art,
but after recommendations from you people. In other case I would NEVER
know Tim Berne works.

I think JMT/W&W was/is in shadow of ECM, other world-wide fanous german
label which is well known for its constant (boring), ascetic (dull)
design. I always thought JMT wants to say "NO" to ECM, with the music
and with the design. Now W&W is already well established and recognized
label, so tey can finally afford better cover art, packaging, they would
like to say: "take a look at this acid-yellow package, it will look
absolutely better on your shelf than yet another black ECM cover! And
the music is better too!"

OK, .

     __________________________________________________________________
     Artur Nowak [[e-mail]]
     www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/default.htm - Discography of Bill Frisell



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Winter & Winter
Date: 29 Jun 1998 15:30:37 -0700 (PDT)

Now that I think about it, the only reason I've never been able to get
into Tim Berne is the Artwork - which is that album with the fish ?...

I was quite impressed by the photos and general design of Downtown
Lullaby (now playing), but I wouldn't have minded more liner notes.  My
policy with
those paper cases is always to keep the cd itself in another
(plastic) case.  Those four-cd-cases-that-only-come-with-two-cds are
particularly handy for that (eg the Masada chamber ensemble cases)

Cappy D'Angelo
Student at Law - Intellectual Property
Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering
Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion
Vancouver, B.C., CANADA








-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Todd Bramy <[e-mail]>
Subject: new label
Date: 30 Jun 1998 01:35:18 -0700 (PDT)

Recently recieved this little tidbit from the Superchunk news list.
Superchunk's leader, Mac, is starting a new label, and what follows is his
description of it. Thought it may interest you.

"Wobbly Rail is a very small label i've started to release the type of music i
probably listen to more than any other - improvised music. Free Jazz, creative
music, whatever you want to call it, it's a music that's hard to find in this
country (most cd's are imports) though labels like AUM Fidelity, No More,
Tzadik, and Knitting Factory Works are releasing more and more stuff that you
can find easily.
I'm basically just doing this out of my house, on a very small level, knowing
that the stuff is pretty esoteric to many people and won't sell a ton, but i
think it's important to get it out there. The first three releases are:
- Wadada Leo Smith / Harumi Makino Smith - "Condor, Autumn Wind"
- AALY Trio + Ken Vandermark - "Stumble"
- Steve Lacy - "Solo, Live at Unity Temple"
I feel lucky to be able to release these albums by musicians i've been a fan
of for years, so it's pretty exciting.
There's a website:  http:\\wobbly.home.mindspring.com\
that i'm slowly getting up; there's some stuff there now.
And the name comes from a Cecil Taylor song "Excursion on a Wobbly Rail" from
his Looking Ahead! lp."

Todd



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "J.T. de Boer" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: concrete music
Date: 30 Jun 1998 11:36:45 +0200

Can anyone give me recommendations about the work of ? Parmegiani?
I'm only familiar with his "Creation du Monde" which is a bit to
'ambient' for me. Has he composed more spectacular work, in terms of
tempo and melody?

Just released in Holland are two cd-sets with the music of Jan
Boerman and Dick Raaymakers. These men are the leadind dutch
composers in musique concr=E8te. I think it's good to check it out.


Jeroen de Boer

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Alan E Kayser <[e-mail]>
Subject: ken vandermark
Date: 30 Jun 1998 09:05:09 -0400

To all the friends of Sweetnighter Prodductions:

The DKV Trio will be appearing in Philadelphia at the Unitarian Church
on July 10, 1998.  The show will take place at 8PM, with a surprise
opening act.  Tickets are $15.  Oh yes, the Trio is Ken Vandermark on
reeds, Kent Kessler on bass, and Hamid Drake on drums.  Coming all the
way from Chicago, too.

Craig and I recently traveled to the Knitting Factory to meet Ken,
playing that night with Sweetnighter's favorite guitarist  Joe Morris
(perhaps a future show) and Hans Poppel.  Ken played clarinet
exclusively that night, but will have his full arsenal of weapons on
Friday night.

Uri Caine will be performing his Mahler tribute tonight at the Knitting
Factory.  We are taking the first steps in having this fantastic work
performed here in Philadelphia.  Uri's recent cd signing at Classical
Choice, 21st and Walnut, was quite successful.  In addition to the
Mahler discs, Uri brought copies of his yet unreleased in the USA Wagner
in Vienna.  What a piece of work this one is.  Sold out very quickly.
We will have more signed copies to sell shortly, for you lucky
Philadelphians.  Uri is looking forward to doing this gig here in his
hometown.  For those of you outside the area, you may be lucky enough to
pick up one of the Wagner discs by contacting Classical Choice at
http://www.cdchoice.com

Thanks for the space.

Alan Kayser
Sweetnighter Productions


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: DR S WILKIE <[e-mail]>
Subject:       winter
Date: 30 Jun 1998 13:52:21 GMT0BST

the new douglas cd on winter and winter features a redesigned
package; it's now possible to get the disc out without snapping it
in two!



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Aaron Chee-Kean Chua <[e-mail]>
Subject: Derek Bailey
Date: 01 Jul 1998 01:00:03 +1000 (EST)

Hi zorn-listers,

    I think there has been some discussion of certain Derek Bailey
discs here, but does anyone have any recommendations on where to start
with him (or john Fahey)? I've only got his d'n'b album. (sorry if i
missed this thread.)

    I recently read something about Zorn being commissioned to compose
a piece for the NY Philharmonic (or something). Has this been released?

thanks.

aaron



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Troy Whitfield <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re. Winter & Winter
Date: 30 Jun 1998 11:36:20 -0400

Brian Olewnick wrote:

> This is the UGLIEST graphics/packaging job I've seen in a long, long
> time! I had always found the JMT releases to be bad enough, sterile,
> awful colors, shallow, etc., but this canary yellow faux corduroy wins
> the ugly award hands down. The bland booklet isn't too offensive (and,
> I guess, you have to give them credit for offering six translations of
> the notes, though the notes themselves are blather) but the CD docking
> station is clunky at best, the disc settling in with a disturbing
> 'click'. Blecch.

I have the Paul Motian Trio disk on W&W and have to say that I like the
finish of the packaging.  The way that the CD is held in the case is
pretty sloppy, however.  It slides around, sticks out of the case, and
as a result becomes scratched.  Nice looking, I think, but not very
functional.

Troy

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Derek Bailey, dave douglas
Date: 30 Jun 1998 08:57:07 -0700

Well,
I do not know much about derek, but the Metheny-bailey-wertico-beard "the sign of four" is an intersting thing.
BTW, i've heard about a wertico - beard cd. Could someone tell me something about it?
BTW II From which CD came the tunes played by Dave Douglas on his last european tour (i' ve seen the waraaw concert at the end of march). He told that it was from his last cd, but i couldn't get it
Any info?
nice to be back here, anyhow...
Marcin Gokieli
[e-mail]

"Ale jesli czlowiek nieszczesliwy, choc wielkiego serca, na los swoj raczej oburzony niz upadly na
duchu i zalamany, zyczy sobie smierci, lecz zycie swe zachowuje, nie ze sklonnosci lub bojazni, lecz
z obowiazku - wtedy dopiero maksyma jego ma tresc moralna."
Immanuel Kant, Uzasadnienie metafizyki moralnosci

>Hi zorn-listers,
>
>    I think there has been some discussion of certain Derek Bailey
>discs here, but does anyone have any recommendations on where to start
>with him (or john Fahey)? I've only got his d'n'b album. (sorry if i
>missed this thread.)
>
>    I recently read something about Zorn being commissioned to compose
>a piece for the NY Philharmonic (or something). Has this been released?
>
>thanks.
>
>aaron
>
>
>
>-
>
>



Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere!
http://www.mailexcite.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jason Caulfield Bivins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Winter & Winter/Wobbly Rail
Date: 30 Jun 1998 11:06:03 -0500 (EST)

I've gotta chime in alongside Brian re. the W & W packaging. Last summer I
picked up the "Big Satan" disc at Other Music and wondered "what is this
clunky thing?". Great music, of course, and I personally don't mind the
artwork (it's Byram, right?). But it looks and feels like some government
issue black box, and each time I go for the CD or put it back in its case
it seems like it's about to be mauled by the corrugated casing. Ugh.
Still, a great trio record.

And as for Wobbly Rail, kudos to Mac on his endeavor. I highly recommend
the Lacy disc, though it's only the first set of a stellar concert.

Jason Bivins


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Brent Burton <[e-mail]>
Subject: lacy/ruins
Date: 30 Jun 1998 12:13:46 -0400 (EDT)

On Tue, 30 Jun 1998, Jason Caulfield Bivins wrote:

> And as for Wobbly Rail, kudos to Mac on his endeavor. I highly recommend
> the Lacy disc, though it's only the first set of a stellar concert.

i saw lacy's concept piece, "the cry", this past sunday @ the district
of columbia jewish community center and i can't say that it was very
recommendable.  aebi's singing was pretty lotte lenya-esque yet didn't bug
me as much as it used to.  lacy sounded great, but his playing seemed
subordinated to the overall work.  the piece never seemed to leave the
ground.  for the record, i saw lacy's octet back in '93 and they blew me
away.

the ruins last night were amazing.  they have the pure sound.

b

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From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: lacy/ruins
Date: 30 Jun 1998 11:27:47 -0500 (CDT)

On Tue, 30 Jun 1998, Brent Burton wrote:

> the ruins last night were amazing.  they have the pure sound.

The Ruins were in DC? And I missed it? Aaaarghhhh....

- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1----------
|||/ Joseph Zitt ===== [e-mail] ===== Human Systems \|||
||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \||
|/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \|


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From: "Artur Nowak" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Derek Bailey, dave douglas
Date: 30 Jun 1998 18:50:45 +0200

> BTW II From which CD came the tunes played by Dave Douglas on
> his last european tour (i' ve seen the waraaw concert at the
> end of march). He told that it was from his last cd, but i
> couldn't get it. Any info?

These tunes are not released yet. After the excelent Warsaw performance
Dave & Quartet went to NY - as far as I know in order record this new
material. I don't know who and when will release it. But I highly
recommended it, my first impression was: Naked City tunes (cut-and-pase
technique) played by Masada (the same lineup, except tenor instead of
alto).

> "Ale jesli czlowiek nieszczesliwy, choc wielkiego serca, na
> los swoj raczej oburzony niz upadly na
> duchu i zalamany, zyczy sobie smierci, lecz zycie swe
> zachowuje, nie ze sklonnosci lub bojazni, lecz
> z obowiazku - wtedy dopiero maksyma jego ma tresc moralna."
> Immanuel Kant, Uzasadnienie metafizyki moralnosci

"Dlatego tez etyka nie jest wlasciwie nauka [o tym], jak mamy czynic sie
szczesliwymi, lecz [o tym], jak mamy stac sie godnymi szczesciwosci."
Immanuel Kant, Krytyka praktycznego rozumu.

     __________________________________________________________________
     Artur Nowak [[e-mail]]
     www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/default.htm - Discography of Bill Frisell



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: BEAUTIFUL MALADIES - THE ISLAND YEARS
Date: 30 Jun 1998 12:58:31 -0700


    I remember somebody mentioning this record on the list:


098 - BEAUTIFUL MALADIES - THE ISLAND YEARS: Tom Waits

    1998 - Island (USA), 314 524 519-2 (CD)


Does anybody remember when it came out?

    Thanks,

    Patrice.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Chris Genzel)
Subject: Re: design
Date: 30 Jun 1998 22:43:14 +0200


>         Well, in recent years, of course, virtually all of Ikue Mori's work,
>         much of Thi Linh-Le's. I've always been fond of the painting on the

 Speaking of Thi Linh Le, I *love* his artworks and photographies. Can anybody
 tell me more about this person?

 Some other names which come to my mind are James Koehnline and Russell Mills,
 whose artworks and designs are gorgeous, and Reid Miles, whose design for
 Blue Note is very appealing.

 Some CDs which come to my mind when thinking of great designs:
  Mark Knopfler: Golden Heart
  Cypher 7: Security
  Ozzy Osbourne: Ozzmosis
  Rob Springett's artworks for Herbie Hancock's early 70's records

 On the other hand, when thinking of the covers of Buckethead's "Colma" or
 Herbie Hancock's "Sound-System", they could be a reason *not* to buy the disc.
 Really, it sometimes happens that I don't buy a CD because I don't like the
 artwork. Or the other way 'round: I became interested in Ikue Mori's "Hex
 Kitchen" because I liked the design.

 Kind regards,
 - Chris.

 ---------------------------------------------
 *    Chris Genzel --- [e-mail]    *
 * Homepage & Herbie Hancock Discography at: *
 *    http://home.t-online.de/home/stamil/   *
 ---------------------------------------------


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Richard C Williams <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: design
Date: 30 Jun 1998 16:37:32 +0000

Chris Genzel wrote:
>
>
> >         Well, in recent years, of course, virtually all of Ikue Mori's work,
> >         much of Thi Linh-Le's. I've always been fond of the painting on the
>
>  Speaking of Thi Linh Le, I *love* his artworks and photographies. Can anybody
>  tell me more about this person?

Only that Thi Linh is very much a woman. And I do mean Very much.

Rich

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Caleb Deupree)
Subject: Re: BEAUTIFUL MALADIES - THE ISLAND YEARS
Date: 30 Jun 1998 17:38:18 -0400

>>>>> "Patrice" == Patrice L Roussel <[e-mail]> writes:

    Patrice> 098 - BEAUTIFUL MALADIES - THE ISLAND YEARS: Tom Waits
    Patrice>     1998 - Island (USA), 314 524 519-2 (CD)

    Patrice> Does anybody remember when it came out?

cdnow gives a release date of June 16, 1998.

---
Caleb T. Deupree
;; Opinions...  funny thing about opinions, they can change.

Computers are useless.  They can only give you answers.
(Pablo Picasso)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeff Spirer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: design
Date: 30 Jul 1998 15:22:00 -0700

At 10:43 PM 6/30/98 +0200, Chris Genzel wrote:

> Speaking of Thi Linh Le, I *love* his artworks and photographies. Can
anybody
> tell me more about this person?

Thi Linh was around Bill Laswell for a number of years (read whatever you
want into that.)  She appeared as a vocalist early in the Material history.

> Some other names which come to my mind are James Koehnline

You can see Koehnline's next cover at:

http://www.hyperreal.org/music/labels/axiom/upcoming.html


Jeff Spirer
B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com/frame/spirer/
Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html
Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Perfect Sound Forever <[e-mail]>
Subject: Roscoe Mitchell, Otomo Yoshihide interviews
Date: 30 Jun 1998 23:28:01 -0400

Greetings,

In the July edition of Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine
<http://www.furious.com/perfect>, you'll find, among other things:

ROSCOE MITCHELL INTERVIEW
    The art of improvisation from an Art Ensemble and AACM founder
  http://www.furious.com/perfect/roscoemitchell.html

OTOMO YOSHIHIDE INTERVIEW
    The aftermath of Ground Zero
  http://www.furious.com/perfect/otomo.html

EXPERIMENTAL MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS
    Showcase of inventors who make their own instruments
  http://www.furious.com/perfect/emi/expmusicalinstr.html

We're always looking for good material and ideas- let us know if you have
anything for a future issue.

See you online,
Jason

Perfect Sound Forever
online music magazine
[e-mail]
http://www.furious.com/perfect

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Michael Howes <[e-mail]>
Subject: Looking for more percussion
Date: 30 Jun 1998 20:55:26 -0700


I've recently been enjoying discs from Le Quan Ninh, Moe!, and Gino
Robair....all percussion disc.
Le Quan Ninh - Ustensiles (For4Ears)
Gino Robair - Singular Pleasures (Rastascan)
Moe! Staiano - Non-Study of First Impressions (Dephine Knormal Music)

I'm looking for suggestion of more percussion music...

Does Le Quan Ninh have anything else out?

I'm already very familiar with things like Crash Worship, Savage Aural
Hotbed, Test Dept, and the Arrythmia comps.

Any suggestions?

thanks
mike
[e-mail]





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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Winter & Winter
Date: 30 Jun 1998 23:57:06 -0400

Artur Nowak wrote:

> > >      This is the UGLIEST graphics/packaging job I've seen
> > in a long, long
> >       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > I personnally think that the design is gorgeous
>
> I agree with Patrice!

The Winter & Winter packaging was created by edel in Germany to Stefan
Winter's pecifications.  But the art is all Steve Byram, with photos by
Robert Lewis.  They are the unsung heroes of Downtown art design.  New World
hired Byram to do their Countercurrents series so they could look as hip as
JMT.  Winter & Winter continues to use Byram and Lewis.  And of course all
the Screwgun covers are designed by Steve, although the spanking illo on the
cover of Ducret's album is actually by someone else.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  Looking for more percussion
Date: 01 Jul 1998 00:03:34 EDT


In a message dated 6/30/98 11:57:37 PM, [e-mail] wrote:

<<Does Le Quan Ninh have anything else out?>>

nothing solo, but the 1995 trio release Open Paper Tree on FMP with Michel
Doneda on soprano sax and Paul Rogers on bass is one of the highlights of the
last five years in European improv. man, I wish Ninh would play New York.

Jon

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Winter & Winter
Date: 01 Jul 1998 00:08:23 -0400

Following up on Brian's post about good package design...

Kimsu Theiler's work for Tzadik was also outstanding, and the Karath-Raza=
r stuff on
Zorn's slightly earlier releases, although often depicting gruesome subje=
ct matter,
was generally beautiful.  I find Peter Br=F6tzmann's design work pretty a=
ppealing in a
brut kind of way.  I agree with Brian regarding Jeff Hunt's work for Tabl=
e of the
Elements and Revenant has been really nice, and hat ART releases have a r=
eally
distinctive look that makes them very appealing.  And my favorite release=
 CD package
is "Explorers We" by Farmers Manual.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Derek Bailey, dave douglas
Date: 01 Jul 1998 00:22:08 -0400

Artur Nowak wrote:

> These tunes are not released yet. After the excelent Warsaw performance
> Dave & Quartet went to NY - as far as I know in order record this new
> material. I don't know who and when will release it.

If it's the quartet with Chris Potter, James Genus and Ben Perowsky to which
you're all referring, it's scheduled for September release on Arabesque.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Winter & Winter
Date: 01 Jul 1998 00:39:07 -0400

Steve Smith wrote:

> And my favorite release CD package is "Explorers We" by Farmers Manual.

                            ^^^^^^I meant "recent," of course.

Steve


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lang Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: live Pulnoc album
Date: 01 Jul 1998 00:50:59 -0400

The new Wayside catalog lists a Pulnoc album called "Live in New York."
Has anybody heard this?  Is it the same as the "Live at PS122" tape?

LT
Lang Thompson
http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4

New at the Funhouse website:  Best Films of 1997,
Anthology of American Folk Music, Godzilla Bites!

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Steve Smith <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: live Pulnoc album
Date: 01 Jul 1998 01:05:24 -0400

Lang Thompson wrote:

> The new Wayside catalog lists a Pulnoc album called "Live in New York."
> Has anybody heard this?  Is it the same as the "Live at PS122" tape?

I can't answer that, but did you know that the Plastic People of the
Universe are playing their U.S. debut at Irving Plaza in New York in just a
few weeks, as part of the Intel Festival?

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: eyvind kang
Date: 01 Jul 1998 15:20:09 +1000

Does anyone have any comments on Kang's "Sweetness Of Sickness"? Or in fact
any of his releases... Incidentally, 7 Nades seems to have been removed
from catalogues of stores such as CDnow which seems quite strange.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Charles Gillett" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Dave Douglas quartet
Date: 01 Jul 1998 00:41:51 +0000

On Wed, 01 Jul 1998 00:22:08 -0400, Steve Smith wrote:
> If it's the quartet with Chris Potter, James Genus and Ben Perowsky to which
> you're all referring, it's scheduled for September release on Arabesque.

    And apparently they played a "brunch" concert at Birdland this past
Sunday, 2 to 5pm.  Grr...I was watching my traveling companions shop
for shoes.  Ah, what can ya do?  I missed Zorn a couple times and
Douglas once, but I did see Erik Friedlander's Topaz and Derek Bailey
with Susie Ibarra.  I can't complain.

   I also met our own Mr. Smith--good stuff!--and Mr. Olewnick
was pointed out to me but I wasn't able to speak to him.  I'll write
up a longer review of my experiences once my shoulder stops aching
(I ended up hauling my overnight bag with me all day Sunday).


-- Charles


-