ftp.xmission.com

home *** CD-ROM | disk | FTP | other *** search

/ ftp.xmission.com / 2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar / ftp.xmission.com / pub / lists / zorn-list / archive / zorn-list.9804 < prev next >

Wrap

Internet Message Format | 1998-04-30 | 1MB

From: Vadim Marmer <msvadi@olive.mscc.huji.ac.il> Subject: masada on sale Date: 01 Apr 1998 11:05:15 +0200 (WET) CD Universe has all "Masada" on sale for $15.97. is it considered to be a good price? if i don`t have any of "masada", except the one that was released on "jazz door", and i can buy only 2-3 CDs which one should i pick up? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: 20 Date: 01 Apr 1998 11:16:29 +0200 (MESZ) ok some of you guys wanted it that way: oh yes and sorry these are 23! BURT BACHARACH - the best of JOHN BARRY - thunderball o.s.t. BEACH BOYS - pet sounds BEATLES - magical mystery tour BJORK - homogenic CAKE - fashion nugget MILES DAVIS - kind of blue DIESELHED - tales of a brown dragon EN VOGUE - funky divas ESKIMO - the further adventures of der shrimpkin FAITH NO MORE - king for a day fool for a lifetime GENESIS - foxtrot JAMIROQUAI - the return of the space cowboy KING CRIMSON - larks` tongues in aspic CAROLE KING - tapestry MR. BUNGLE - disco volante DOLLY PARTON - the best of (1970-1978) SQUAREPUSHER - feed me weird things PETER THOMAS - raumpatrouille TORTOISE - millions now living will never die XTC - white music NEIL YOUNG - dead man JOHN ZORN - elegy BJOERN http://www.cityinfonetz.de/uni/homepage/bjoern.eichstaedt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be> Subject: Re: New stuff in question Date: 01 Apr 1998 12:00:00 +0200 >Conrad Schnitzler - ? Who is this and what are his recent recordings >like? Conrad Schnitzler is a student of Joseph Beuys, was involved in lots of performances in the late sixties and was known as "the Mad Genius of West Berlin". In '69 he joined Tangerine Dream (then Edgar Froese and Klaus Schulze) to record "Electronic Meditation" (on which he played cello,viola,flute and effects). He left Tangerine Dream, unsatisfied with the vision of Froese and joined Cluster (Roedelius + Moebius, forming Kluster), they recorded two albums of pre-industrial/noise electronics in the early seventies. He left Kluster for a solo-carreer, recording lots of very-limited LP's (100 copies most of the time). Most of them based on his concept of Cassette-concerts: recording drones and sequenced noises from analog synths on several tapes, then live-mixing them to produce an unique concert. Some of these LP's were recently reissued (Control, Charred Machinery,Electronegativity,...). Since mid-eighties he's more focussed on the synclavier digital synth, producing strange soundscapes (which he calls "Dramatic Electronic Music") and complex rhythms (essential work: Constellations). "Con Brio" contains more classical structured works and works for piano (comparable to the Nancorrow player-piano pieces) to conclude: He is one of the most original artists of the German Electronics scene. YVes P.S. Schnitzler has a small web-site at http://www.conrad-schnitzler.net4.com/ - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Petsitter" <PETSITTER@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: masada on sale Date: 31 Mar 1998 19:46:48 -0600 -----Original Message----- >CD Universe has all "Masada" on sale for $15.97. is it >considered to be a good price? if i don`t have any of "masada", except the >one that was released on "jazz door", and i can buy only 2-3 CDs which one >should i pick up? That is a good price, at least from what I have seen. Even Cadence sells them for $18. What Masada CD was released on jazz door, I am unfamiliar? I would first purchase Masada 1-3.> > >- > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: flamerik@best.ms.philips.com Subject: 20 records I want my girlfriend to appreciate Date: 01 Apr 1998 16:15:52 +0200 In no particular order. Not all are CDs... 1. Mr. Bungle - Disco Volante 2. Faith No More - Angel Dust 3. Bjork - Homogenic 4. Naked City - Grand Guignol 5. Runzelstirn & Gurgelstock - HO 6. Ennio Morricone - either one of Mondo Morricone, More Mondo Morricone, or Morricone A Go! Go! (all compilations - is this allowed?) 7. Marillion - Misplaced Childhood 8. Rush - Moving Pictures 9. Genesis - Foxtrot 10. Photek - U.F.O. 12" 11. Primus - Frizzle Fry 12. Frank Zappa - disc one of The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life 13. Slayer - Reign In Blood 14. Boredoms - Super Roots 15. the entire Basic Channel output 16. Peter Thomas - Raumpatrouille 17. Bernard Herrmann - Vertigo 18. Bernard Herrmann - The Day The Earth Stood Still 19. Dream Theater - Images and Words 20. Peter Gabriel - Live My God, what a biased list... Some of this stuff I haven't played in months, but I still think it's probably better than what I'm listening to now... or, the stuff from recent years still needs to grow. Anyway, I know I've listened 500 times to that Dream Theater album, for example, so the fact that I haven't touched it in over a year is not going to keep me from including it here. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: CAKE (was 20 before) Date: 01 Apr 1998 16:18:06 +0200 (MESZ) On Wed, 1 Apr 1998, Keith McMullen wrote: > What's the scoop on CAKE? Someone else mentioned them to me the other day. > well CAKE are an amazing band from the US (i guess California am not sure though)... their style can be described as alternative country-rock with weird elements and funny lyrics...musically they are amazing. especially their arrangements are completely weird...reminds me of some Zappa stuff!!!! they have two albums out..the first one is called "motorcade of generosity" the second one is called "fashion nigget" which i highly recommend (one of my 20 fav records :) ) at the moment they are in the studio workin on their third album. BJOERN http://www.cityinfonetz.de/uni/homepage/bjoern.eichstaedt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jason J. Tar" <tarjason@pilot.msu.edu> Subject: Yoshihide Dates. Date: 01 Apr 1998 09:38:29 -0500 I was e-mailed these dates by the person who does the Yoshihide pages. Thought some of you might care. The Ohio show is going to be at Speak in Tongues. >Several days ago, Sachiko sent me the schedule of their U.S. and European tour. >The U.S. tour schedule is as follows; > >Filament / I.S.O. Tour 1998 >I.S.O with Otomo, Yoshimitsu Ichiraku (drums) and Sachiko M (sampler) >5/7 <thu> NY/ USA [ The Cooler ] OTOMO&Christian Marclay&DJ Toshio > Sachiko M& Koosil-ja(Kumiko Kimoto) >5/10 <sun> NY/ USA [Alterknit] w/Anthony Coleman >5/11 <mon> Pittsburgh,PA / USA [ ] Filament >5/12 <tue> Cleveland,OH/ USA [ ] Filament >5/13 <wed> Detroit,Mi / USA [ ] Filament >5/14 <thu> >5/15 <fri> Chicago/ USA [ ] I.S.O. w/Jim O'Rouke > --- Peace Hugs and Unity, Jason J. Tar Vampire Rodent Productions http://pilot.msu.edu/user/tarjason/VRodents.htm Featuring: Vampire Rodents, Ether Bunny, and Dilate. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rusty Crump <dmcrump@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu> Subject: Re: masada on sale Date: 01 Apr 1998 08:47:07 -0600 >CD Universe has all "Masada" on sale for $15.97. is it >considered to be a good price? if i don`t have any of "masada", except the >one that was released on "jazz door", and i can buy only 2-3 CDs which one >should i pick up? > > >- FOUR. Abso-rootie-tootie-tootly. Rusty Crump Oxford, Mississippi - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: re: Turkish music Date: 01 Apr 1998 09:50:13 -0500 (EST) On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Al T wrote: > Just to dovetail w/ other topics: > Talip Ozkan - The Dark Fire - produced by Bill Laswell & Nicky > Skopelitis. > > Good stuff - no oud though - saz, precussion, voice. got to second this. it's on axiom and it's raw just like master musicians and gnawa music of marrakesh. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re:Bar Kokhba/Circle Maker Date: 01 Apr 1998 09:39:25 -0500 Author: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> at SMTP-for-MSSM Opinions on Bar Kokhba vs. Circle Maker? Forced to choose, I'd pick 'Bar Kokhba', though I think 'The Circle Maker' is a very fine release. Part of the difference might merely be the pleasant surprise, at the time, of hearing all the lush romanticism of the earlier work; now we've come to expect it. 'The Circle Maker' does contain some of the absolute best work I've heard from both Mark Feldman and Ribot; the latter's tone is pure joy to listen to. Cyro Batista is also exceptional on the Zevulon portion of the program. I do get the nagging (and quite possibly mistaken) feeling that JZ can almost toss off these compositions at will. There's a certain gem-like, perhaps too-perfect aspect to some pieces that occasionally leaves me wanting a bit more edge, even a few 'failures'. But, what the hell, if my carping gets to this level of anality, I figure we're dealing with some very fine work. Get 'em both. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gauthier Michelle A <7mag2@qlink.queensu.ca> Subject: 20 great albums Date: 01 Apr 1998 10:11:26 -0500 (EST) KRONOS QUARTET-- Early Music BOB OSTERTAG AND OTOMO YOSHIHIDE-- Twins BOB OSTERTAG-- Sooner or Later DAVE DOUGLAS-- Sanctuary DIAMANDA GALAS-- Masque of the Red Death PETER THOMAS-- Raumpatrouille TIPSY-- The Seductive Sounds of.. ARTO LINDSAY-- Mundo Civilizado BAR KOKHBA DAVID SHEA AND DJ GRAZHOPPA BOREDOMS-- Anal By Anal YOSHIMI P-WE-- 00100 RYOJI IKEDA-- 1000 Fragments ORANJ SYMPHONETTE-- Plays Mancini CHRISTIAN MARKLAY-- Records 1981-1989 OTOMO YOSHIHEDE-- We Insist? HANATARASH-- 4 MILES DAVIS-- On The Corner ERIC DOLPHY-- Out to Lunch PHILIP GREENLIEF/TREVOR DUNN oops! 21. TOM WAITS-- Bone Machine In no apparent order.... m. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Given <dlgiven@julian.uwo.ca> Subject: Re; Mike Osborne Date: 31 Mar 1998 22:40:22 +0100 >> Easy question to answer, two of his best records have recently reissued: >> >> >> >> *** - OUTBACK: Mike Osborne >> >> 1/ So It Is (Mike Osborne) >> 2/ Outback (Mike Osborne) >> >> Mike Osborne: alto; Harry Beckett: trumpet; Louis Moholo: drums; Harry >> Miller: bass; Chris McGregor: piano. >> >> 1994 - Future Music Records (UK), FMR CD07-031994 (CD) >Patrice: What is the real release date on this. Not 1994, surely. And how >long are the tracks? This album is from something like 1970. Unfortunately, it is no longer in print. Cadence had it in their catalogue for a long time, but when I ordered it, it was out of stock. The next issue it was removed from the listing. I asked Daniel at Verge about it, as they also deal with Future Music. He called FMR, and they are out of them, with no intent to reprint it. So, unfortunately, I don't have it :(. Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Dennis Charles and Arthur Jones Date: 01 Apr 1998 10:21:03 -0500 (EST) Yes the same Denis Charles, but he's probably best known as being Cecil Taylor's first drummer. He was still playing well up to the (near) end. I saw him in NYC last summer for the first (and now last) time playing in a couple of groups, including one with Mr. Tireless, Borah Bergman --and he was as inventive as always. Luckily a couple of CD featuring him will soon be out on Eremite. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Glenn A wrote: > > Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 20:04:27 -0500 (EST) > > From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> > > Cc: zorn-list@xmission.com > > Subject: Re: Dennis Charles and Arthur Jones > > > > > > > > > > > > All around us the second generation new thing players are passing on -- > > > most recently Denis Charles > > > > I hadn't heard this. What a wonderful, underappreciated drummer. > > > > >Is this the same Denis Charles who played with Steve Lacy ? I'm thinking of that Hat Art release of improvised Monk tunes > along with trombonist Rosewell Rudd... > > > glenn > > > > - > > > > > > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: 20 great albums Date: 01 Apr 1998 07:06:49 -0800 This is fun. It is so absurd to reduce our collective passions for music to a list of 20, yet it is so delightful to see homages paid to those we love so dearly. I'm sitting here going YES! YES! to everyone else's lists as much (sometimes more than) my own. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Arthur Jones Date: 01 Apr 1998 10:03:54 -0500 (EST) Not sure of the exact details, but it happened two or three weeks ago. Apparently Jones had gone from NYC to Paris, then was back in NYC, close to living on the street. When he heard of the death of Samarai Celestian (*sp), the Sun Ra drummer, he sent a postcard to Ahmed Abdullah, the ex-Ra trumpeter predicting he (Jones) would be next. That had a short discussion about that and next thing he knew, Abdullah heard of Jones demise. All the more reason to get those BYGs out again Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > On Tue, 31 Mar 1998 16:39:07 -0500 (EST) Ken Waxman wrote: > > > > > > Now this is interesting, especially with the participation of Earl > > Freeman, another American avant gardist of the second wave who played > > with Noah Howard and Archie Shepp. If I'm not mistaken it was William > > Parker who wrote a tune honoring him, called "Goggles". > > > > All around us the second generation new thing players are passing on -- > > most recently Denis Charles and Arthur Jones. Considering that their > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Arthur Jones? When? I never heard about his death. > > > explorations and non-conformity influenced Zorn, maybe we could spend > > more time discussing their achievements here. > > Patrice. > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Given <dlgiven@julian.uwo.ca> Subject: Re; Mike Osborne Date: 31 Mar 1998 22:40:22 +0100 >> Easy question to answer, two of his best records have recently reissued: >> >> >> >> *** - OUTBACK: Mike Osborne >> >> 1/ So It Is (Mike Osborne) >> 2/ Outback (Mike Osborne) >> >> Mike Osborne: alto; Harry Beckett: trumpet; Louis Moholo: drums; Harry >> Miller: bass; Chris McGregor: piano. >> >> 1994 - Future Music Records (UK), FMR CD07-031994 (CD) >Patrice: What is the real release date on this. Not 1994, surely. And how >long are the tracks? This album is from something like 1970. Unfortunately, it is no longer in print. Cadence had it in their catalogue for a long time, but when I ordered it, it was out of stock. The next issue it was removed from the listing. I asked Daniel at Verge about it, as they also deal with Future Music. He called FMR, and they are out of them, with no intent to reprint it. So, unfortunately, I don't have it :(. Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JRZ <zube@winternet.com> Subject: Re: CAKE (was 20 before) Date: 01 Apr 1998 09:29:51 -0600 At 04:18 PM 4/1/98 +0200, BJOERN wrote: > > >On Wed, 1 Apr 1998, Keith McMullen wrote: > >> What's the scoop on CAKE? Someone else mentioned them to me the other day. >> >well CAKE are an amazing band from the US (i guess California am not sure >though)... their style can be described as alternative country-rock with >weird elements and funny lyrics...musically they are amazing. especially >their arrangements are completely weird...reminds me of some Zappa stuff!!!! Didn't they have a "big hit single on the charts" a year or so ago? I remember someone recommending their disc but I kinda blew it off. Can anyone clue me in? zube http://www.winternet.com/~zube/index.htm If anyone objects to any statement I make. I am not only prepared to retract the statement, but to deny under oath that I ever made it - Tom Lehrer - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: stockhausen Date: 01 Apr 1998 11:14:22 -0500 (EST) On Wed, 1 Apr 1998, Julian wrote: > A while back there was a bit of talk about a version of Stockhausen's > "Kontakte" which included William Winant. Where is this recording > available? it is available on thurston moore's ecstatic peace label. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marc Couroux <couroux@music.mcgill.ca> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #284 Date: 01 Apr 1998 11:11:00 -0500 (EST) Steve Reich - Music for 18 Musicians (1977) ECM The Residents - Third Reich and Roll (1976) ESD The Fall - This Nation's Saving Grace (1985) Beggar's Banquet Cecil Taylor - Looking (Berlin) (1991) FMP Evan Parker - Process and Reality (1993) FMP Conlon Nancarrow - Studies for Player Piano Vols. 1-5 WERGO Harry Partch - The Wayward CRI Glenn Branca - Symphony No. 3 (1980) Atavistic Art Ensemble of Chicago - Full Force/Urban Bushmen ECM Morton Feldman - For Samuel Beckett (1986) HatARt John Zorn - Torture Garden (1991) Tzadik Terry Riley - Songs for the Ten Voices of the Two Prophets (1982) Charlemagne Palestine - Godbear (1980) Barooni Robert Ashley - Perfect Lives (1985) Lovely Music Michel-Georges Bregent - Atlantide (1985) Ambiance Magnetique Richard Barrett - Chamber Works (1994) Etcetera Firesign Theatre - How Can you Be Two Places at Once - SONY Felix Leclerc - Le Chant des Patriotes Talking Heads - Fear of Music (1978) Sire Laurie Anderson - United States Live (1985) Warner Bros. Gyorgy Ligeti - Le Grand Macabre (1978) WERGO Iannis Xenakis - La Legende d'Eer (1978) Disques Montaigne Luigi Nono - Prometeo (1985) SONY Frank Zappa - 200 Motels (1970) Rykodisc Philip Glass - Music in 12 Parts (1975) Elektra - Marc Couroux - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Petsitter" <PETSITTER@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: masada on sale Date: 31 Mar 1998 19:46:48 -0600 -----Original Message----- >CD Universe has all "Masada" on sale for $15.97. is it >considered to be a good price? if i don`t have any of "masada", except the >one that was released on "jazz door", and i can buy only 2-3 CDs which one >should i pick up? That is a good price, at least from what I have seen. Even Cadence sells them for $18. What Masada CD was released on jazz door, I am unfamiliar? I would first purchase Masada 1-3.> > >- > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "roger langvik" <tjohansen@vf.telia.no> Subject: Cobra.....Other game pieces, Date: 01 Apr 1998 18:47:11 +0200 does anyone know of a good site to understand more abaout the rules (perhaps THE rules) of Cobra how it is built up,etc,etc.or just tell me,us ,the other persons on this digest how it works,functions in the playing situations,I am writing a paper on zorn and am having problems finding the words the notes on my record doesn't tell me much...... thanks.......... Roger I have no cool catch frase..... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Torture Garden Mystery Date: 01 Apr 1998 08:48:53 -0800 On Wed, 01 Apr 1998 14:23:04 +0200 Julien Quint wrote: > > Patrice L. Roussel <proussel@ichips.intel.com> wrote: > > > Nonesuch refused to put out the material of TORTURE GARDEN on their > > label. Because they refused to put out the music, they could not > > really prevent Zorn from getting it released somewhere else. It seems > > that they found an agree- ment: "you can put it in the US, but not on > > CD". This explains why Shimmy only put out vinyl/tape pressings of > > the record. > > > Later on (1991), Toy's Factory released it on CD, which was OK with > > Nonesuch. > > snip! > > > Now, that does not explain why Shimmy made the record available again > > in October 96 (when the BLACK BOX was already announced)... > > This is strange, because I bought a CD copy of Torture Garden way before 1996 This is not strange... I just skipped few details :-). I was talking about Shimmy putting the record back on the shelves after Zorn asking them to withdraw it. Yes, Shimmy put out a CD pressing of the record in 1993. > (must have been around 1993) and it was already on Shimmy Disc, just like the > 12" record (and I was under the impression that the 12" didn't have > *everything* that's on the CD... my CD has 46 tracks, running time approx. 26 > minutes btw) 46 tracks? I am really surprised because the vinyl/tape had only 42... Could I have missed the fact that the CD pressings added extra tracks? > This is getting pretty complicated; maybe Shimmy Disc sold the CD only outside > the US? I bought mine in France. In regards to the last question, it's been > said on numerous occasion that Shimmy Disc have pretty dodgy business > practices. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Dennis Charles and Arthur Jones Date: 01 Apr 1998 08:54:02 -0800 On Wed, 1 Apr 1998 10:21:03 -0500 (EST) Ken Waxman wrote: > > Yes the same Denis Charles, but he's probably best known as being Cecil > Taylor's first drummer. > He was still playing well up to the (near) end. I saw him in NYC last > summer for the first (and now last) time playing in a couple of groups, > including one with Mr. Tireless, Borah Bergman --and he was as inventive > as always. Luckily a couple of CD featuring him will soon be out on Eremite. He had many exciting shows announced at The Roulette... Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "A.Bueno" <jabu@sminter.com.ar> Subject: Re: masada on sale Date: 01 Apr 1998 14:18:51 -0300 Petsitter wrote: > >CD Universe has all "Masada" on sale for $15.97. is it > >considered to be a good price? if i don`t have any of "masada", except the > >one that was released on "jazz door", and i can buy only 2-3 CDs which one > >should i pick up? > > That is a good price, at least from what I have seen. Even Cadence sells > them for $18. > What Masada CD was released on jazz door, I am unfamiliar? > I would first purchase Masada 1-3.> Downtown music gallery in NYC has the same price for the Masada`s($16). A.Bueno - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Howard <Howard@3DI.com> Subject: Re: 20 great albums Date: 01 Apr 1998 12:00:59 -0600 Today's list: Miles Davis - Kind Of Blue John Coltrane - Meditations Tim Berne - Diminutive Mysteries Plug - Drum and Bass for Papa Public Enemy - It Takes A Nation Of Millions The Fall - Complete Recordings boxset (on Myimagination Records) Stravinsky conducts The Firebird, Petrushka, The Rite Of Spring Long Fin Killie - Houdini Can - Tago Mago Albert Ayler - Spiritual Unity Ornette Coleman - Atlantic box Spacemen 3 - Perfect Perscription (CD version) Miles Davis - Dark Magus Marvin Gaye - What's Goin On? John Zorn - Bar Kokhba Pram - Helium Link Wray -Complete Swan Recordings Cecil Taylor Unit Gavin Bryars - Sinking Of the Titanic (Point version) The Dead C - Harsh 70's Reality Artists who didn't make the list just cause I couldn't pick an album: Karlheinz Stockhausen P-Funk Derek Bailey Charles Gayle any 60's Garage-rock comp George Crumb Charles Ives Brian Eno Captain Beefheart James Brown The Wedding Present John Cage Oh man was this hard. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Gretz <KGGF@grove.iup.edu> Subject: MY top 20 albums Date: 01 Apr 1998 12:59:58 -0500 (EST) in no particular order: 1. Beach Boys - Pet Sounds 2. Frank Zappa - Weasels Ripped My Flesh 3. John Coltrane - The Major Works Of John Coltrane 4. Genesis - The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway 5. Don Caballero - II 6. Burt Bacharach - Plays His Hits 7. Miles Davis - Bitches Brew 8. Naked City - Leng T'che 9. Melvins- Stone Witch 10. Faith No More - Album Of The Year 11. Boredoms - Onanie Bomb Versus The Sex Pistols 12. Deus - Worst Case Scenerio 13. Mr. Bungle - Disco Volante 14. Stravinsky - Leonard Berstein/Israel Philharmonic (Rite Of Spring) 15. Ennio Moriconne - A Fistful OF FIlm Music 16. Peter Gabriel - 3rd 17. Edgar Varese - Ionizations, Arcana, Density (not sure of the exact name) 18. Sonic Youth - Bad Moon Rising 19. Faxed Head - Uncomfortalbe But Free 20. Daniel Johnston - Yip/Jump Music honorable mentions go to - Spy Vs. Spy, The Shaggs (Philosophy of the World) and Half Japanese (1/2 Gentlemen, Not Beasts) jeff - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Schwartz <jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu> Subject: Re: 20 essential records Date: 01 Apr 1998 13:02:59 -0500 no particular order to these-I left out box sets (that's cheating!) 1. Beatles-Revolver 2. Zorn-Naked City 3. Stravinsky-The Rite of Spring 4. James Brown-Greatest Hits 5. Funkadelic-One Nation Under a Groove 6. Minutemen-Double Nickels on the Dime 7. David Bowie-Low 8. Roxy Music-Avalon 9. John Coltrane-A Love Supreme 10. Miles Davis-Kind of Blue 11. Miles Davis-Jack Johnson 12. Eric Dolphy-Out to Lunch 13. Anthony Braxton-Five Pieces 1975 14. Dave Holland-Conference of the Birds 15. Albert Ayler-Vibrations 16. Joe Pass-Virtuoso 17. Thelonious Monk-Genius of Modern Music 18. Charlie Parker-The Dial Masters 19. Charles Mingus Presents Charles Mingus 20. X-Los Angeles -- Jeff Schwartz jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: 20 essential records Date: 01 Apr 1998 10:02:15 -0800 Great to see Holland's CONFERENCE OF THE BIRDS on several lists. It came to mind...as did many others. More...more... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: stockhausen Date: 01 Apr 1998 11:05:47 -0800 At 9:15 PM 4/1/98, Julian wrote: >A while back there was a bit of talk about a version of Stockhausen's >"Kontakte" which included William Winant. Where is this recording >available? > It's on Ecstatic Piece, recorded in 1978, not released until 1997, with Winant and James Tenney on piano, from a live performance in Toronto. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: 20 greats Date: 01 Apr 1998 13:38:52 -0500 Tim Berne - Sanctified Dreams Iannis Xenakis - La Legende D'Eer Richard "Groove" Holmes - Living Soul Cecil Taylor (The Feel Trio) - Looking (Berlin Version) Naked City - Torture Garden Iannis Xenakis - Kraanerg Elliott Sharp - Spring & Neap Tom Waits - Rain Dogs Charles Mingus - Blues & Roots and many others Henryk Gorecki - String Quartets 1 & 2 (Kronos Quartet) Curtis Mayfield - Curtis Evan Parker - Process & Reality (on someone else's list as well!) Steve Reich - Music For 18 Musicians Anthony Braxton - Wilisau Quartet Julius Hemphill - 'Coon Bid'ness Iancu Dumitrescu - Medium III, etc... (on Edition Modern) John Coltrane - Sun Ship Derek Bailey - solo discs (can't pick one!) etc, etc... This list will undoubtedy change a whole bunch in the coming years. Hell, I'll probably be trying to sell all of these here in a couple of weeks! (: -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: 20 essential records Date: 01 Apr 1998 13:59:19 -0500 A seminal record, IMHO. Picked it up around the time it was issued--my first exposure to Mr. Braxton, as I recall; had I but known how much he'd be depleting my wallet over the next 25 years...nah, he's been more than worth it. Listened to COTB recently and it holds up extremely well. Speaking as a non-musician, Holland's themes strike me as wonderful springboards towards inspired improv (they surface regularly in my whistling regimen). Brian Olewnick --listening to...Carl Stone Nyala ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> at SMTP-for-MSSM Great to see Holland's CONFERENCE OF THE BIRDS on several lists. It came to mind...as did many others. More...more... - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: CAKE (was 20 before) Date: 01 Apr 1998 13:53:24 -0500 > Didn't they have a "big hit single on the charts" a year or so ago? I > remember someone recommending their disc but I kinda blew it off. Can > anyone clue me in? yeah. Their version of "I Will Survive" and "She's Going The Distance" (I'm not sure of the real title but that's the repeated chorus line) were around radio waves a lot about a year ago until the end of this summer. I've heard the entire disc (the newest one) and think it's altogether forgettable except for the "She's Going The Distance" (or whatever) which completely rules. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: top 20 Date: 01 Apr 1998 14:31:21 -0500 Top 20 for today, in the order in which they came to me: Naked City (first) Bryars - Jesus Blood Never Failed Me Yet (Point) Johnny Clegg - Heat, Dust & Dreams John Oswald - Plexure Arcana - Arc of the Testimony Sheila Chandra - ABoneCroneDrone Bach - Goldberg Variations (Charles Rosen) King Crimson - Thrak Beatles - White Album Miles - Sketches of Spain Stockhausen - Kontakte with instruments (EC) Nudes - Vanishing Point David Bowie - Outside Deep Forest - Boheme Plus From Us (RealWorld) Gipsy Kings - Este Mundo Henry Threadgill - Makin a Move Chiky(u)u (Ash International) Torn, Karn, Bozzio - Polytown Xenakis - Legende d'Eer Hmm, not much jazz on there... We'll have to try this again sometime. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JRZ <zube@winternet.com> Subject: Re: 20 Date: 01 Apr 1998 14:38:07 -0600 hmmm, this is hard, ya need an album for every occasion. Captain Beefheart - Trout Mask Replica Hampton Grease Band - Music to Eat Beatles - Rubber Soul Husker Du - Zen Arcade Overkill - Taking Over Uncle Tupelo - No Depression Grateful Dead - American Beauty Merle Haggard - Mama Tried Funkadelic - Maggot Brain Pimps, Players and Private Eyes Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back John Coltrane - Meditations John Coltrane - Complete Village Vanguard Recordings (disc 1 if I had to choose) Miles Davis - Miles Smiles Tony Williams Lifetime - Emergency Rahsaan Roland Kirk - Rip Rig and Panic Masada - (not sure which one, VIII?) Painkiller - Execution Ground (the whole box set if I could) Medeski, Martin and Wood - Friday Afternoon in the Universe Happy Apple - Blown Shockwaves and Crashflow (it's recent but it just keeps growing on me) honorable mention: Some gawdawful Miami Bass disc in case I really want to annoy people, provided I get to keep a nice system. zube http://www.winternet.com/~zube/index.htm If anyone objects to any statement I make. I am not only prepared to retract the statement, but to deny under oath that I ever made it - Tom Lehrer - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Arthur Jones Date: 01 Apr 1998 15:55:05 -0500 (EST) For Chris Hamilton and others who asked: Arthur Jones was a Cleveland-born alto saxophonist who recorded with among others, Sunny Murray, Burton Greene, Dave Burrell, Braxton, Archie Shepp, Alan Silva and Frank Wright. IMHO his best work comes on fellow-Clevelander Frank Wright's "Your Prayer" on ESP Disk, a seminal free jazz/blues session. More saxophones and fewer guitars would make the world a better place Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: 20 Date: 01 Apr 1998 15:34:53 -0500 JRZ wrote: > > Uncle Tupelo - No Depression mmm... Great album. I think I'll bring it along with me as well. I got this disc when I was 13 and it's one of the very few discs from that time I've stuck with. I didn't like many other Tupelo albums aside from this one and their projects since breaking up have been really weak (Wilco and Son Volt). > Medeski, Martin and Wood - Friday Afternoon in the Universe I can't believe I forgot to include this one! And I now realize I didn't put any Esquivel on my list... -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@UVic.CA> Subject: Top 20 Date: 01 Apr 1998 13:26:51 -0800 (PST) I'm still working on mine, but I hope someone's compiling a "zorn-list most mentioned top 20 albums" ! Cappy D'Angelo Student at Law - Intellectual Property Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion Victoria, B.C., CANADA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Zachary <zachary@netwalk.com> Subject: 20 Essentials Date: 01 Apr 1998 17:05:52 -0500 These are my favorites, most have been for a long time. Lots of pop/standard "alternative" rock, but hey, that's what I listen to. Sue me. Listed alphabetically: Big Black _Songs About Fucking_ Cabaret Voltaire _Micro-Phonies_ Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds _Tender Prey_ Cocteau Twins _Treasure_ Julian Cope _Peggy Suicide_ Denison-Kimball Trio _Soul Machine_ Einsturzende Neubauten _Haus der Leuge_ Philip Glass _1000 Airplanes on the Roof_ The Jesus Lizard _Head_ Lush _Split_ Meat Beat Manifesto _Storm the Studio_ My Bloody Valentine _Loveless_ Naked City _Torture Garden_ Scraping Foetus Off the Wheel _Nail_ Sonic Youth _Daydream Nation_ Soul Coughing _Ruby Vroom_ Supernova _Ages 3 and Up_ SWANS _White Light from the Mouth of Infinity_ Tar _Toast_ Wire _Pink Flag_ Swap 'em! Save 'em! Listen to 'em till they sound fuzzy, then listen to 'em again! -Zachary - _________________________ )) Zachary (( [|**| zachary@netwalk.com |**|] |__| "Coffee Cures Everything" |__| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JRZ <zube@winternet.com> Subject: Re: 20 Date: 01 Apr 1998 16:14:09 -0600 At 03:34 PM 4/1/98 -0500, Tom Pratt wrote: >JRZ wrote: >> >> Uncle Tupelo - No Depression > >mmm... Great album. I think I'll bring it along with me as well. I got >this disc when I was 13 and it's one of the very few discs from that >time I've stuck with. I didn't like many other Tupelo albums aside from >this one and their projects since breaking up have been really weak >(Wilco and Son Volt). I don't really like the album's after ND either. I disagree about the spinoffs, I love both Son Volt albums. The Wilco double CD is good. 'Course I listened to too many of my dad's Merle Haggard and Waylon Jennings albums growing up so your milage may vary. I can't believe I forgot to mention Tarbabies - Honey Bubble (the most wrongly forgotten band of the late 80's) zube http://www.winternet.com/~zube/index.htm If anyone objects to any statement I make. I am not only prepared to retract the statement, but to deny under oath that I ever made it - Tom Lehrer - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: 20 essential records Date: 01 Apr 1998 17:20:20 -0500 (EST) Albert Ayler, _Spiritual Unity_ Derek Bailey, _Aida_ and _Drop Me Off at 96th_ Peter Brotzmann, _Machine Gun_ Ornette Coleman, _Body Meta_, _Dancing in Your Head_, _Free Jazz_, and _This Is Our Music_ Miles Davis, _Miles Davis and the Modern Jazz Giants_, _On the Corner_, and _Pangaea_ Brian Eno, _Discreet Music_ and _Neroli_ Yoko Ono, _Yoko Ono/Plastic Ono Band_ Sun Ra, _Atlantis_ and _Cosmic Tones for Mental Therapy_ Cecil Taylor, _For Olim_ Tricky, _Maxinquaye_ Velvet Underground, _White Light/White Heat_ John Zorn, _Locus Solus_ (Bjoern, who I'd sent this to privately, may notice a small change. I got two Miles Davis records confused. This is the correct version.) Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: 20 Date: 01 Apr 1998 17:30:35 -0500 Trout Mask Replica (I still find new things on it, even after 25 years) Gravity - Fred Frith Another Green World - Brian Eno Ascension - John Coltrane (how can you pick just one?) Ask The Ages - Sonny Sharrock Of Queues and Cures - National Health Barbecue Dog - Decoding Society 8th Street Nights - Back Door (anyone else remember them?) Rockbottom - Robert Wyatt (though Schleep is a close 2nd) Naked City - s/t Consequences - Godley and Creme (mostly for Sarah Vaughn's cameo, otherwise "L") Lumpy Gravy - Frank Zappa The World As It Is Today - Art Bears The Hapless Child - Michael Mantler Ph7 - Peter Hammill Kew Rhone - John Greaves & Peter Blegvad Familjesprikor - Zamla Mammas Manna 185 - The Muffins Iron Path - Last Exit Crafty Hands - Happy The Man Maybe I should change my nick to "unrepentent prog rocker" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Keldon Drudge <kdrudge@julian.uwo.ca> Subject: Re: 20 Essentials Date: 01 Apr 1998 17:23:41 -0500 (EST) > Wire _Pink Flag_ ...ahhhh, finally someone mentions this one. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: 20 Date: 01 Apr 1998 14:11:55 -0800 I was gritting my teeth holding back from going on a FLAMING tirade that TROUT MASK was nowhere to be found, but that has been rectified, so I'll be a nice puppy... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: Turkish music Date: 01 Apr 1998 18:49:56 -0500 (EST) > As other people have mentioned, there is a lot of recordings combining > jazz players and non-western improvisation, or western players > improvising non-western music. May I mention Codona, Glen Velez, lots > of Don Cherry, and many of the recent Butch Morris conduction series. Someone here mentioned an album a while ago called 'cairo heavy traffic' which sounded amazing, but i've forgotten everything about it other than the title. Fill me in, oh mighty zorn-list. -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "PETSITTER" <PETSITTER@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: MY top 20 albums Date: 01 Apr 1998 05:55:52 -0600 -----Original Message----- >in no particular order: > >>10. Faith No More - Album Of The Year >11. Boredoms - Onanie Bomb Versus The Sex Pistols >12. Deus - Worst Case Scenerio >13. Mr. Bungle - Disco Volante > >Why did you choose Album of the year? Im just curious. If I had to pick one CD to summarize Faith No More and also the best CD, I would choose Angel Dust. On the other hand, thank you for choosing Disco Volante over the self-titled album. I get discouraged when people speak poorly over DiscoV. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Screwgun Date: 01 Apr 1998 20:25:31 -0500 (EST) I just got my copy of Tim Berne/Bloodcount's "Discretion" in the mail. Its really amazing, but anyway it came with a postcard announcing the Marc Ducret CD, and it said "Buy this CD and my power comes back on - Tim Berne". Don't tell me Screwgun is having financial problems already- I had read that they've been doing well. I know it's a sarcastic remark and that he's like that, but I just don't know how sarcastic. Also, I was glad to see someone list FZ's 200 Motels on their top 20. While it is not one of my favorite FZ albums, I think its much better than people give it credit for. But try telling that to someone who doesn't like FZ- impossible! Try it. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Hollo <raven@cia.com.au> Subject: Re: masada on sale Date: 02 Apr 1998 12:18:37 +1000 I suspect that the Masada on Jazz Door isn't part of the series, but is a CD of a live performance they did in I think 1994. Recently I was listening to some Zorn in Red Eye Records (a superb Sydney records store) and had a listen to this one. It has a lot of great tracks from the first 3 Masadas, often in quite long versions, but I thought first I should get those Masadas 1-3. I'll agree with those other people who said get Masada 1-3 first. Definitely. But they're all excellent. I still think Bar Kokhba's even better, but perhaps it's because I'm a string player, or perhaps because, whilst I think the playing is superb on the Masadas, free jazz still leaves me a bit cold, whereas the Masada String Trio is just so totally lush and, oooh what can you say?! By the way, I'm told by a guy at Red Eye (one third of Phlegm, who is soon to record & release an album for Tzadik along with another member of Phlegm, but not *as* Phlegm) that the release of Circle Maker for outside of the USA was delayed because of problems with the printing of the covers - something to do with printing black on black and a couple of spelling mistakes and generally John Z's stubbornness. So consequently I haven't been able to pick up Circle Maker yet (later this week)... Is this true, anybody? Peter. -- Peter Hollo raven@cia.com.au http://www.cia.com.au/raven/ FourPlay - Eclectic Electric String Quartet http://www.cia.com.au/raven/fourplay.html "Of course, dance music can be a music where you lie on your back and your brain cells dance" -Michael Karoli of Can, quoted in Wire mag. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Landon Thorpe <landocal@mail.utexas.edu> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #287 Date: 01 Apr 1998 20:26:40 -0600 At 06:27 PM 4/1/98 -0700, you wrote: >5. Don Caballero - II Boy am I glad to see this pop up on a top 20 list! It would definitely be on my top 20 list, too (forthcoming, hopefully). Does anyone else feel strongly about this band and esp. this album? I think Don Caballero has a lot to say about composition and group improvisation and blurring the line between the two. Some passages seem like they must be improvised, but the group performance is so tight that I wonder if they are. Can anyone shed any light on this? I suppose that Storm & Stress, DC guitarist Ian T. Williams' other band, might stand as an answer. Their music sounds like the result one would get when applying the ideas of free improv to an electric guitar/electric bass/drums lineup. That is, if their songs weren't each thoroughly composed. Kinda weird. I know that the above has little to do with Zorn--sorry. But does anyone else have anything to say about these bands? Any comments on Damon Che's "lead drumming?" Landon Thorpe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: top 20 Date: 02 Apr 1998 13:15:29 +1000 (EST) In no particular order, right as of this moment (and that I can remember)... 1. SPK "Information Overload Unit" 2. Elmer Bernstein "The Man With The Golden Arm" OST 3. Buddy Morrow "Poe For Moderns" 4. Esquivel "Exploring New Sounds In Hi-Fi" 5. Rudimentary Peni "Cacophony" 6. Lubricated Goat "Play The Devil's Music" 7. Harpo Marx "In Hi-Fi" 8. DNA "A Taste Of" 9. Orchestra Of Skin and Bone s/t 10. Naked City "Torture Garden" 11. DJ Carhouse and MC Hellshit "Live!" 12. John Zorn "Filmworks 1986-1990" 13. Ground Zero s/t 14. Sun Ra "The Magic City" 15. Jazz Composer's Orchestra "Communications" 16. Ornette Coleman "The Shape Of Jazz To Come" 17. Erik Satie "Gymnopedies/Gnossienes/Parade" 18. Raymond Scott "Moonlit Nights and Turkish Twilights" 19. Flux of Pink Indians "Uncarved Block" 20. Runzelstirn and Gurgelstock "Mama/Das Fest" 21. John Cage "Fontana Mix/Aria" 22. Perrey/Kingsley "The In Sound From Way Out" That's more than 20, and still seems to unjustly neglect lots of my favorite musicians. I dunno: these best-of lists are maybe a bootless thing? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: 20 Essentials Date: 01 Apr 1998 23:42:57 -0500 Here's a list done of da toppa my head, intentionally not looking at my collection. If I were to do it an hour from now, there might not be much overlap. Karlheinz Stockhausen: Stimmung John Cage: Roaratorio Morton Feldman: Rothko Chapel / For Frank O'Hara (original Odyssey recording) Miles Davis: Pangaea Ornette Coleman/Charlie Haden: Soapsuds, Soapsuds Brian Eno: Music for Airports David Bowie: Heroes Stevie Wonder: The Secret Life of Plants Happy Rhodes: Rhodesongs Deep Listening Band: The Ready Made Boomerang Jennifer Warnes: Famous Blue Raincoat David Sylvian/Robert Fripp: Damage Public Image Limited: Second Edition Lisa Gerrard: The Mirror Pool David Hykes and the Harmonic Choir: Hearing Solar Winds Meredith Monk: Book of Days October Project: October Project Peter Gabriel: Secret World Live Kate Bush: The Whole Story Laurie Anderson: Mr. Heartbreak -- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yin Pin <yinpin@pop6.jaring.my> Subject: twenty Date: 02 Apr 1998 13:22:26 +0000 zoviet france _monhomische_ dead c _harsh 70s reality_ peter brotzmann sextet/quartet _nipples_ blauer hirsch _cyberpunk_ derek bailey _music & dance with min tanaka_ pharoah sanders _tauhid_ last exit _the noise of trouble_ richard grossman _one..two..three..four..._ hanatarash _5 : We Are 0:00_ thela _argentina_ davy graham _folk routes, new routes_ squarepusher _hard normal daddy_ kluster _klopfzeichen_ john cage _roaratorio_ coffee _artifact/artifact shadow_ charalambides _union_ amm _laminal_ marilyn crispell _labyrinths_ dietrich/sauter/moore _barefoot in the head_ amid the mimic _jugular polar wars_ huseyin ertunc trio _musiki_ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Screwgun Date: 02 Apr 1998 00:32:00 -0500 Tim's that sarcastic. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: QUESOMALO <QUESOMALO@aol.com> Subject: top 20 Date: 02 Apr 1998 00:40:06 EST I'm glad to see that many of my faves have been mentioned, even those that aren't so Zorny. Has the order any significance? Nope. 1-Bill Frisell "Have A Little Faith"/ "Buster Keaton discs" 2-Yo La Tengo "Painful" 3-David Murray Octet "New Life" 4-Massacre "Killing Time" 5-Steve Coleman "the Way of the Cipher"/ "Rhythm People" 6-Zappa/Mothers "Absolutely Free" 7-Soth Indian Instrumental Ensemble "Vadya Lahari" 8-Arto Lindsay "Mundo Civilizado" 9-Xenakis "Electro-Acoustic Music" 10- Zorn "Spy vs. Spy"/ "Cobra: Tokyo Operations"/ "Bar Kohkba" 11- Minutemen "Post Mersh 1 (The Punchline & What Makes a Man Start Fires?)" 12-Braxton "Wilisau" 13-Ornette Coleman "the Empty Foxhole" 14-Spacemen 3 "the Perfect prescription" 15-Monk "the Composer" 16- Coltrane "Live in Seattle" 17- John Cage/ David Tudor "Indeterminacy" 18- Art Ensemble "Third Decade" 19- Jon Spencer Blues Explosion "Orange" 20- David Torn "What Means Solid Traveller?" also couldn't do w/out albums by: Johnny Cash, A.C. Jobim, Prokofiev, Stravinsky, Otis Redding, Prince, Kurt Weill, Manitas de Platas, Tim Berne, Sonny Sharrock, Django Reinhardt, and Hendrix. -Nick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Given <dlgiven@julian.uwo.ca> Subject: Re: 20 essential records Date: 02 Apr 1998 00:07:01 +0100 Tough question, but I'll take a shot. This is one from a different room than (most of) my albums are in, so I'm sure as soon as I send this and leave the room, I will see something on the shelf that should have been included. Not in any order Peter Brotzmann Die Like a Dog (FMP) Anthony Braxton Seven Comp's (Trio) 1989 (HatArt) Joe McPhee Oleo and A Future Retrospective (HatArt) Charles Mingus Presents Charles Mingus (Candid) Evan Parker 50th Birthday Concert (Leo) Willem Breuker Bob's Gallery (BVHaast) Mats Gustaffson Parrot Fish Eye (OKKA) London Jazz Composers Orchestra Theoria (Intakt) Cecil Taylor For Olim (Soul Note) AMM The Nameless Uncarved Block (Matchless) Derek Bailey Improvisatione (Cramps) Jimmy Guiffre Free Fall (Columbia) Ganelin Trio Poca a Poco (Leo) Duke Ellington Blanton-Webster Years (Columbia) Anthony Braxton Creative Orchestra Koln (HatArt) John Coltrane The Major Works of (Impulse) Ornette Coleman Change of the Century (Atlantic) George Lewis Homage to Charles Parker (Black Saint) Spontaneous Music Ensemble Karyobin (Chronoscope) Steve Lacy Weal and Woe (Emanem) Is it cheating to have 3 doubles and one 3 disc set? That was so hard I hope I never have to actually choose. Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Twenty-something Date: 01 Apr 1998 21:47:53 -0800 More...more...don't stop now... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Landon Thorpe <landocal@mail.utexas.edu> Subject: Top 20, er, 22 Date: 02 Apr 1998 00:17:44 -0600 In no particular order: Don Caballero--Don Caballero 2 Fugazi--In on the Kill Taker, Red Medicine Gastr Del Sol--Upgrade and Afterlife Helmet--Strap It On Jim O'Rourke--Bad Timing Rodan--Rusty John Coltrane--My Favorite Things, A Love Supreme, Ascension (either ed.) Miles Davis--Kind of Blue, A Tribute to Jack Johnson Eric Dolphy--Out to Lunch Bill Frisell--Where in the World? John McLaughlin--Extrapolation Thelonius Monk--Brilliant Corners Sonny Sharrock--Ask the Ages John Zorn--Spillane J.S. Bach--Brandenburg Concertos (Philip Pickett w/New London Consort) Mahler--Symphony No. 5 (Barbirolli) Tortoise--TNT (a little too early to tell, but it's making a fantastic impression) Godflesh--Streetcleaner - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: flamerik@best.ms.philips.com Subject: Re: MY top 20 albums Date: 02 Apr 1998 08:55:25 +0200 PETSITTER wrote: >> On the other hand, thank you for choosing Disco Volante over the > self-titled album. I get discouraged when people speak poorly over DiscoV. I know scores of people who like the debut album far better than DV. In my opinion, DV is about a lightyear better than the debut, and I guarantee you that the debut would be in my top 20 if it weren't for DV. But really, a LOT of people think the debut album is crazy in a good way, but DV is utter crap. I tend to put on Hanatarash "4" when someone who thinks so is around my house.. And it was nice to see a couple of people mention Peter Thomas. Plus, some people's lists read like my wish list, scary... Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Doug McKay" <mckay003@maroon.tc.umn.edu> Subject: Top 20 Date: 02 Apr 1998 01:30:11 You guys know WAY too much about music. Most of these musicans I've never even heard of! Hell, my top 20 would include such staples of my youth as BLACK SABBATH vol. 4 !!! And Pantera's VULGAR DISPLAY OF POWER. But then Alyer and Dolphy would get on the list too, so I don't feel too bad. Doug McKay In Minnesota - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com> Subject: Re: top 20 Date: 01 Apr 1998 23:13:45 -0800 (PST) On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, QUESOMALO wrote: > 14-Spacemen 3 "the Perfect prescription" just curious why this record over "Dreamweapon", featuring the ULTIMATE from the sonic pharmacy, 'an evening of contemporary sitar music'? COUGH hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com> Subject: Re: Fire label query Date: 01 Apr 1998 23:34:55 -0800 (PST) On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Patrick Carey wrote: > >Does anything know anything about an Icelandic label called Fire? > > The label is called Fire Inc., and I don't know much. They're new. not really. Fire has been around in one way or another since 1993. their first release was a CD compilation titled "F.I.R.E." and included tracks by various notable Icelandic bands such as Curver, Bellatrix (aka Purkur Pyllnck, excuse the spelling, but they changed their name to Bellatrix), Pff and Stilluppsteypa. in fact, the label is run by those fun-loving Icelandic boys also known as Stilluppsteypa. to date, Fire has released a handful of records: f-1 F.I.R.E. Various Artists compact disc f-2 STILLUPPSTEYPA + CURVER Inside AM 7 inch f-3 PLASTIK Hrna cassette f-6 HAFLER TRIO The day I married the world 7 inch f-7 IRR.APP.(EXT.) An uncertain animal, ruptured... compact disc (just released) f-8 STILLUPPSTEYPA One side mona lisa... compact disc f-9 REPTILICUS Craters 7 inch f-10 HAFLER TRIO Whistling about chickens compact disc (sold out, but not yet released) f-11 STOCK, HAUSEN & WALKMAN Empty box 10 inch f-13 STILLUPPSTEYPA & IRR.APP.(EXT.) Tpith or tetapth compact disc f-14 CM VON HAUSSWOLFF To make things happen... compact disc f-15 STILLUPPSTEYPA Reduce by reducing 12 inch/compact disc (not yet released) there is an excellent interview with Stilluppsteypa in the most recent Bananafish magazine. the next issue will have an interview with irr.app.(ext.). Fire has a website: http://www.isholf.is/fire/ > >Apparently they were planning to release some 10" records by > >Jim O'Rourke, nd Stock, Hausen and Walkman. > > The O'Rourke record has been out since Feb. or so ... It's called > "Please Note Our Failure" and it's a plunderphonics sorta thing. this is actually released by Something Records (same folks who put out the Stilluppsteypa and Melt Banana split 10" from a few years ago) and is distributed by Fire, but is not a Fire release. > Not sure about the SH & W record ... probably the "Empty Box" 10". hope this helps. hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com> Subject: Re: twenty Date: 01 Apr 1998 23:37:46 -0800 (PST) On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Yin Pin wrote: > thela _argentina_ how does this compare to the first Thela release, also on Ecstatic Peace? hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Doug McKay" <mckay003@maroon.tc.umn.edu> Subject: Top 20 Date: 02 Apr 1998 02:12:33 Alright. I went through the CDs I've got. Not "records". Not anything I don't own on CD. Here's what I came up with. It's a little meaningless unless you know what I'm selecting FROM, but here it is: No Ranking. Yo-Yo Ma - Six Unaccompanied Cello Suites (2CDs) Bela Bartok - Six String Quartets (2CDs) -- John Zorn - Naked City -- Alan Jackson - Who I Am Michael Martin Murphy - Cowboy Songs Michael Martin Murphy - Cowboy Songs III Hank Williams - 40 Greatest Hits (2CDs) Johnny Cash - American Recordings -- Frank Zappa - Shut Up and Play Yer Guitar (3CDs) -- Black Sabbath - Vol 4 Pantera - Vulgar Display of Power -- Eric Dolphy - Out to Lunch Albert Ayler - Spiritual Unity -- The Baltimore Consort - On the Banks of Helicon: Early Music of Scotland -- Temple of the Dog (0R) Alice in Chains - Dirt Nothing esoteric. Guess I'm not an esoteric sort of guy. Doug McKay In Minnesota - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Laura Petersen <Laura@elite.dk> Subject: Re: Top 20 Date: 02 Apr 1998 10:50:07 +0200 (MET DST) My Top 20 (in no particular order) John Zorn - News for Lulu John Zorn - Naked City Peter Brotzmann - Machine Gun Charles Mingus - The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady Thelonious Monk - Brilliant Corners Eric Dolphy - Out to Lunch Charlie Parker - The Dial Masters John Coltrane - A Love Supreme John Coltrane - Giant Steps Sonny Clark - Cool Struttin' Dexter Gordon - Our Man in Paris Ornette Coleman - The Shape of Jazz to Come Miles Davis - Kind of Blue Johnny Griffin - A Blowing Session Howlin' Wolf - London Sessions Beastie Boys - Paul's Boutique Cypress Hill - Black Sunday Curtis Mayfield - Superfly Funkadelic - One Nation under a Groove Dr. John - Mos' Scocious: The Dr.John Anthology P.S. Please, no mocking. I know my taste is conventional ;) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leon lee <llee15@ccsf.cc.ca.us> Subject: 20 something... Date: 02 Apr 1998 01:11:39 -0800 (PST) off the top of my head: julius hemphill - raw material and residuals ornette coleman - beauty is a rare thing <-rules are meant to be broken nels cline trio - ground vinny golia - slice of life mingus - town hall concert w/ praying for eric robert dick - the other flute (just for his version of gazzelloni) john coltrane - interstellar space (if i had to pick one) anthony braxton - alto saxophone improvisations series f (or any solo) sun ra - dancing shadows world saxophone quartet - live in zurich nick drake - pink moon the coctails - lp stereolab - emperor tomato ketchup javanese court gamelan (folkways) hugh mundell - africa must be free by 1983 (inclusive of dub album) scientist - rids the world of the evils of vampires (i don't remember exactly the title) material - hallucination engine acid jazz vol 1-3 (yeah yeah i'm cheating) on beat goes public portishead - dummy dr. octagon - dr octagon aphex twin - saw II defunkt - thermonuclear sweat ...enough already. and this is without looking what i would have to part with. leon --- Paid Advertisement --- "...we could attempt the Masonna cover of Stars and Stripes Forever... i'll bring my mic with the short-circuit." david arnold -- member since 1998 SCMEP ccsf - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jan-Wen Lu <janwenlu@top2.ficnet.net.tw> Subject: Top 20 Date: 02 Apr 1998 17:42:30 +0800 This is my top 20 list. In no particular order. *Makigami Koichi-Koroshi no Blues (Toshiba-EMI) *Machine for Making Sense-On Second Thoughts (O.O. Disc/Tall Poppies) *Naked City-Torture Garden (Toy's Factory/Shimmy Disc) *Ground Zero-s/t (God Mountain) *Hanatarash-4 (Public Bath) *Boredoms-Super Roots (Warner Bros.) *MC Hellshit/DJ Carhouse-Live! (Blast First) *Frank Schulte-Switchbox (No Man's Land) *Catherine Jauniaux/Ikue Mori-Vibraslaps (RecRec) *Bob Ostertag-Say No More (RecRec) *Martin Tetreault-Des Pas et Des Mois (Ambiances Magnetiques) *Carl Stone/Otomo Yoshihide-Monogatari (Trigram) *Hoppy Kamiyama Visual Works 2-Nympho Has Some Great Elements (God Ocean) *Jon Rose-Violin Music in the Age of Shopping (Intakt) *ESP-Extra Sensory Perception (SubConscious) *Christian Marclay/Gunter Muller-Live Improvisations (For 4 Ears) *Butch Morris-Current Trends in Racism in Modern America (Sound Aspects) *Omoide Hatoba-Kinsei (Birdman) *John Zorn-The Classic Guide to Strategy (Tzadik) *Trevor Wishart-Red Bird/Anticredos (October) Jan-Wen Lu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Friedrich Feger <ffeger@gwdg.de> Subject: 20 Date: 02 Apr 1998 12:27:39 +0200 Are you all mad?! I go bust! I blame you all for making me poor and neglecting things I thought to be important. So shut the fuck up! *grin* Here's my cup of poison, trying to be true as opposed to ambitious. Beeing miles away from my CDs, here's my freestyle-instant-top 20: Miles Davis: Kind of Blue Miles Davis: Nefertiti Miles Davis: On The Corner Miles Davis: Amandla John Coltrane: Ballads (hard to leave others unmentioned) Al Jarreau: This Time (not because of every tune on it...) A Tribe Called Quest: Midnight Marauders Plug: Drum 'n' Bass For Papa Dionne Warwick: The Best Of (Rhino, Compilation) Rickie Lee Jones: Pop Pop Naked City Paul Motian / Joe Lovano / Bill Frisell: On Broadway II Earth, Wind And Fire: The Best Of Vol. I (Compilation) Genesis: The Lamb Lies Down On Broadway Bill Frisell: Have A Little Faith Nat King Cole: Let's Fall In Love (Compilation) (Not mainly for the songs but for the voice...) Tom Waits: Rain Dogs James Brown: Star Time (sorry, 4-CD-Best-Of-Compilation...) Donald Fagen: The Nightfly Richard Strau=DF: Vier Letzte Lieder (Jessie Norman) The hypothetic island-situation suffices to cause nightmares. As I look at my list, there is pretty much mainstream on it. Seems to be more sustainable than some avant things. I am amused that so many people outed themselves that way as I did. Fritz. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: Re: Fire label query Date: 02 Apr 1998 05:50:03 -0500 Well sheesh, this'll teach me not to pipe up when I've got minimal info ... ;-b Should have looked at my Soleilmoon catalogs first!! Thanks SUGAR, for the informative history and discog. >Fire has been around in one way or >another since 1993. their first >release was a CD compilation >titled "F.I.R.E." and included >tracks by various notable Icelandic >bands such as Curver, Bellatrix >(aka Purkur Pyllnck, excuse the >spelling, but they changed their >name to Bellatrix), Pff and >Stilluppsteypa. in fact, the label >is run by those fun-loving >Icelandic boys also known as >Stilluppsteypa. to date, Fire >has released a handful of records: >f-1 F.I.R.E. Various Artists compact disc >f-2 STILLUPPSTEYPA + CURVER Inside AM 7 inch >f-3 PLASTIK Hrna cassette >f-6 HAFLER TRIO The day I married the world 7 inch >f-7 IRR.APP.(EXT.) An uncertain animal, ruptured... compact disc >(just released) >f-8 STILLUPPSTEYPA One side mona lisa... compact disc >f-9 REPTILICUS Craters 7 inch >f-10 HAFLER TRIO Whistling about chickens compact disc (sold out, >but not yet released) >f-11 STOCK, HAUSEN & WALKMAN Empty box 10 inch >f-13 STILLUPPSTEYPA & IRR.APP.(EXT.) Tpith or tetapth compact disc >f-14 CM VON HAUSSWOLFF To make things happen... compact disc >f-15 STILLUPPSTEYPA Reduce by reducing 12 inch/compact disc (not >yet released) Geez, don't know what I was thinkin'. I've read reviews of at least 4 or 5 of these records ... never paid attention to the label I guess. [O'Rourke 10"] this is actually released by Something Records (same folks who put out the Stilluppsteypa and Melt Banana split 10" from a few years ago) and is distributed by Fire, but is not a Fire release. That would explain why I've seen it listed as being on both Something and (mistakenly) Fire Inc. _Some_ mail-order outfits just don't seem to be as on the ball as others ... -Patrick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: Re: CAKE (was 20 before) Date: 02 Apr 1998 13:30:26 +0200 (MESZ) > >> What's the scoop on CAKE? Someone else mentioned them to me the other day. > >> > >well CAKE are an amazing band from the US (i guess California am not sure > >though)... their style can be described as alternative country-rock with > >weird elements and funny lyrics...musically they are amazing. especially > >their arrangements are completely weird...reminds me of some Zappa stuff!!!! > > Didn't they have a "big hit single on the charts" a year or so ago? I > remember someone recommending their disc but I kinda blew it off. Can > anyone clue me in? yepp they did that nice cover version of I WILL SURVIVE.. B - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: Re: CAKE (was 20 before) Date: 02 Apr 1998 13:36:22 +0200 (MESZ) > yeah. Their version of "I Will Survive" and "She's Going The Distance" > (I'm not sure of the real title but that's the repeated chorus line) > were around radio waves a lot about a year ago until the end of this > summer. I've heard the entire disc (the newest one) and think it's > altogether forgettable except for the "She's Going The Distance" (or > whatever) which completely rules. the song is called THE DISTANCE and it`s: HE`s going...not SHE... i have to disagree completely on this...the disc in a complete is one of the finest rock albums ever recorded and has some tunes that are damn amazing, for example ITALIAN LEATHER SOFA which is the greatest song of the whole album..... these songs are all beautiful as hell...and the guitarstyle is unique BJOERN - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: Re: Top 20 Date: 02 Apr 1998 13:38:38 +0200 (MESZ) > I'm still working on mine, but I hope someone's compiling a "zorn-list > most mentioned top 20 albums" ! already working on that since i am the stupid guy who brought that up... damn am i stupid LOL : ) B - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: Re: 20 essential records (fwd) Date: 02 Apr 1998 13:58:27 +0200 (MESZ) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- 1. Scott Walker "Boychild" 2. Rolling Stones "Exile On Main Street" 3. Gram Parsons "Return Of The Grievous Angel" 4. Pere Ubu "The Modern Dance" 5. Bob Dylan "Blood On The Tracks" 6. Beach Boys "Pet Sounds" 7. Masada "The Circle Marker" 8. Merle Haggard "The Capitol Years" 9. Roxy Music "For Your Pleasure" 10. Sun Ra "Out There a Minute" 11. Tougher Than The Rest-Island 4 CD Reggae compilation 12. Captain Beefheart "Safe As Milk" 13. Can "Cannabilism 1" 14. Elvis Presley "The Sun Sessions" 15. Little Richard "Specialty Years" Box set 16. Miles Davis- almost anything 17. John Coltrane "Love Supreme" 18. Ornette Coleman "Beauty Is a Rare Thing" 19. Louis Armstrong "WC Handy" 20. Dock Boggs - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: Re: 20 essential records (fwd) Date: 02 Apr 1998 13:58:52 +0200 (MESZ) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Bjoern, Ok, you asked for it: 1. Frederic Rzewski The People United... Hat Art 1986 2. Charles Mingus Let My Children Hear Music Columbia 3. Harry Partch Delusion of the Fury Columbia 4. Ornette Coleman Science Fiction Columbia 5. Michael Mantler/JCOA Communications JCOA/Watt 6. Charles Mingus Presents Charles Mingus Candid 7. George Lewis Homage to Charles Parker Black Saint 8. Charles Mingus Mingus Ah Um Columbia 9. Roscoe Mitchell Congliptious Nessa 10.Art Ensemble of Chicago Les Stances a Sophie Nessa 11.Duke Ellington New Orleans Suite Atlantic 12.Gavin Bryars Sinking.../Jesus' Blood Obscure 13.Julius Hemphill 'Coon Bid'ness Arista 14.Glenn Branca The Ascension Neutral 15.Carla Bley/Paul Haines Escalator Over the Hill JCOA/Watt 16.Steve Reich Drumming DG 17.Dave Holland Conference of the Birds ECM 18.Anthony Braxton New York, Fall, 1974 Arista 19.Art Ensemble of Chicago People in Sorrow Nessa 20.Cecil Taylor Indent Arista As you might guess, I've put some thought into this list (and more!) previously, so I had it at the ready. You also might be able to discern that, for me, the late 60's and early 70's were the source of some great music. No, no Zorn makes the list, thought had you asked for best releases of the 80's and 90's, he would have been well represented. Happy listening, Brian Olewnick ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> at SMTP-for-MSSM 1. PLEASE ANSWER PRIVATELY!!!! i am sure several people would be pissed if you send the answers to the list THANX 2. This one goes mainly to people with CD/LP collections bigger than 1000 CDs/LPs (most of you guys I guess) so this morning i looked through my record collection this way: WHAT RECORDS WOULD I KEEP IF I COULD ONLY KEEP 20 OF THEM????? so what records would u guys keep if you could only keep 20 of your records???? i am interested in that because i am looking for essential records that i do not have yet and i am in the mood of selling lots of my stuff that is not THAT great! BJOERN http://www.cityinfonetz.de/uni/homepage/bjoern.eichstaedt - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: top 20 so far Date: 02 Apr 1998 13:57:06 +0200 (MESZ) so i went through several top 20s that have been sent and there are some tendencies: Torture Garden seems to be Zorn`s record that gets mentioned pretty often. Genesis gets mentioned as much as King Crimson (which confused me a bit although i had albums of both of them in my list) Miles Davis has one record in nearly all the lists. i guess there are much too much lists to do a definite list...... dont know if i`ll have the time....if someone else wants to do oit i`ll forward the lists that i got privately when this whole thing started BJOERN - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: Re: 20 essential records (fwd) Date: 02 Apr 1998 13:57:58 +0200 (MESZ) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, BJOERN wrote: > so what records would u guys keep if you could only keep 20 of your > records???? this is so self-indulgent of me: this heat _deceipt_ albert ayler _spiritual unity_ roscoe mitchell art ensemble _congliptious_ derek bailey _aida_ son house _death letter_ codeine _frigid stars_ ornette coleman _beauty is a rare thing_ box set john coltrane _impressions_ congos _heart of the congos_ slint _spiderland_ black flag _first four years_ tom waits _swordfishtrombones_ bob dylan _blood on the tracks_ nick drake _pink moon_ marion brown _geechee recollections_ the minutemen _what makes a man start fires_ television _marquee moon_ charles mingus _mingus, mingus, mingus, mingus, mingus_ edgar varese _the music of edgar varese_ john zorn _spy vs. spy_ wow, that's just off the top of my head and nowhere near complete. it would be much too hard to stop @ 20 b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: Re: 20 essential records (fwd) Date: 02 Apr 1998 13:59:37 +0200 (MESZ) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Bjoern-- I'm shocked that you would find this useful, but I enjoy doing this kind of thing, so here goes (in alphabetical order): Albert Ayler, _Spiritual Unity_ Derek Bailey, _Aida_ and _Drop Me Off at 96th_ Peter Brotzmann, _Machine Gun_ Ornette Coleman, _Body Meta_, _Dancing in Your Head_, _Free Jazz_, and _This Is Our Music_ Miles Davis, _Bags' Groove_, _On the Corner_, and _Pangaea_ Brian Eno, _Discreet Music_ and _Neroli_ Yoko Ono, _Yoko Ono/Plastic Ono Band_ Sun Ra, _Atlantis_ and _Cosmic Tones for Mental Therapy_ Cecil Taylor, _For Olim_ Tricky, _Maxinquaye_ Velvet Underground, _White Light/White Heat_ John Zorn, _Locus Solus_ That's out of around 1300 records, since base size seemed to matter. Hope this helps, Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: Re: 20 essential records (fwd) Date: 02 Apr 1998 13:59:13 +0200 (MESZ) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- 20???? That's a rough, rough question! Well, here goes (mind you, this 20 would probably be a little different if you asked me again tomorrow!) : 1) Isaac Hayes - Best of Volume 1 (Stax) 2) Stravinsky - Conducts "The Rite of Spring" & "Petrushka" (CBS) 3) The Beatles - The White Album (Parlophone) 4) The Beatles - Revolver (Parlophone) 5) Sonny Sharrock - Ask the Ages (Axiom) 6) Alice Coltrane - Journey In Satchidananda (Impulse!) 7) David Shea - The Prisoner (Sub Rosa) 8) Slotek - 7 (WordSound) 9) Bootsy Collins - Back in the Day...Best of (Warner Bros.) 10) John Coltrane - The Impulse! Years (Impulse!) 11) Burning Spear - Marcus Garvey/Garvey's Ghost (Mango) 12) Bob Marley - Legend (Island) 13) Bob Marley - Dreams of Freedom (Axiom) 14) Mad Professor - The Lost Scrolls of Moses (Ariwa) 15) Material - Seven Souls (Axiom) 16) Flying Mijinko Band - Central Asian Tour (Japan Foundation) 17) Naked City - Radio (Avant) 18) Masada - Alef (DIW) 19) Laswell/Inoue - Cymatic Scan (Subharmonic) 20) Painkiller - Complete Studio Recordings (Tzadik) Whew! SW For Sale/Want List and Laswell Discography at http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "A.Bueno" <jabu@sminter.com.ar> Subject: 20 is not enough Date: 02 Apr 1998 09:00:36 -0300 No special order ZAPPA Weasels rippes my flesh C.BEEFHEART Shiny Beast HENDRIX Band of Gypsies K.CRIMSON Starless and bible black ROLAND KIRK Infalted tear COLTRANE Live in Japan ART ENSEMBLE OF CHICAGO Full Force XENAKIS Kraanerg G.SCELSI SUITES #9 & 10 CAGE SONATAS & INTERLUDES FOR PREPARED PIANO MILES DAVIS Agharta HERMETO PASCOAL Live at Montreux SUN RA Live at montreux JOHNNY WINTER And live ALLMAN BROTHERS Live at Fillmore INVISIBLE Invisible TEN YEARS AFTER Undead BLOODCOUNT Unwound TIM BUCKLEY Lorca BRAXTON Koln 72 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "A.Bueno" <jabu@sminter.com.ar> Subject: Re: 20 is not enough Date: 02 Apr 1998 09:30:11 -0300 A.Bueno wrote: > > No special order > > ZAPPA Weasels rippes my flesh > C.BEEFHEART Shiny Beast > HENDRIX Band of Gypsies > K.CRIMSON Starless and bible black > ROLAND KIRK Infalted tear > COLTRANE Live in Japan > ART ENSEMBLE OF CHICAGO Full Force > XENAKIS Kraanerg > G.SCELSI SUITES #9 & 10 > CAGE SONATAS & INTERLUDES FOR PREPARED PIANO > MILES DAVIS Agharta > HERMETO PASCOAL Live at Montreux > SUN RA Live at montreux > JOHNNY WINTER And live > ALLMAN BROTHERS Live at Fillmore > INVISIBLE Invisible > TEN YEARS AFTER Undead > BLOODCOUNT Unwound > TIM BUCKLEY Lorca > BRAXTON Koln 72 > > - how could i forget ornette coleman shape of jazz.. santana ,lotus vienna art orchestra ,suiteof green eighties irene schweitzer ,many and one direction messiaen,coleurs de la cite cel... john adams, shaker loops conlon nancarrow,sudies for piano stevie ray vaughan,texas flood jethro tull,aqualung gentle giant,live charlie mingus,live at antibes eric dolphy,out to lunch ligeti,Mechanical works cecil taylor 3 phasis someck & sharp ,revenge of... mahavishnu orchestra ,between nothing.... elp, brain salad surgery cactus same led zeppelin 1st focus, moving waves - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Zorn <gking@win.bright.net> Subject: Top 20 Date: 02 Apr 1998 07:05:57 -0800 (in no particular order)-(BASED OFF OF WHAT CDS I WOULD WANT TO LISTEN TO IF I COULD ONLY TAKE 20 ON A TRIP) MR BUNGLE - DISCO VOLANTE BOREDOMS - SOUL DISCHARGE SHIZUO - FUCKSTEP '98 APHEX TWIN - RICHARD D JAMES or SAW II JOHN ZORN - HOCKEY NAKED CITY - TORTURE GARDEN CARL STALLING - PROJECT VOLUME 1 JOHN ZORN - ELEGY JOHN ZORN - KRISTALLNACHT JOHN ZORN - NEW TRADITIONS IN EAST ASIAN BAR BANDS WEEN - PURE GUAVA PRIMUS - FRIZZLE FRY COCK ESP - GREATEST DICKS RUINS - HYDEROMASTGRONINGEM ALEC EMPIRE - HYPERMODERN JAZZ 2000.5 NAKED CITY - ABSINTHE FAITH NO MORE - KING FOR A DAY BEATLES - MAGICAL MYSTERY TOUR FUDGE TUNNEL - HATE SONGS IN E MINOR JOHN ZORN - FIRST RECORDINGS 1973 (I'd either take those or just grab 20 out of my zorn collection :P) P.S. I am still looking for people to do reviews of Zorn's work for my page - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Zorn <gking@win.bright.net> Subject: looking for some info on these albums Date: 02 Apr 1998 07:06:42 -0800 im wondering if anyone knows anyhting about these albums..what they are like etc..? EXPERIMENTAL PERFORMANCE WITH JOHN ZORN: Jojo Takayanagi GANRYU ISLAND: Michihiro Sato and John Zorn - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be> Subject: top 20 Date: 02 Apr 1998 15:20:50 +0200 only 20 is insane: 1)Roni Size: New Forms 2)Amon Tobin: Bricolage 3)Great Jewish Music:Serge Gainsbourg 4)Zorn:Elegy 5)Klaus Schulze: X 6)Tangerine Dream : The Sorcerer 7)Material: Seven Souls 8)Kraftwerk: Computer world 9)M.Mengelberg: Who's bridge 10)Cibo Matto: Viva La Woman 11)Beatles: Sgt.Peppers ... 12)Roland Kirk: talkin' verve: Roots of Acid Jazz 13)Naked City: Naked City 14)Masada VII 15)King Crimson: Islands 16)Wendy Carlos: Clockwork Orange 17)J.S.Bach: violin concertos (Trevor Pinnock + English Consort) 18)G.Bryars: Music for the sinking of the titanic 19)S.Reich: Music for 18 musicians 20)Zappa: Jazz from Hell 20b)Boredoms: Onanie Bomb ... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stefan Verstraeten <stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be> Subject: what's up with dougie bowne & arto lindsay ??????? Date: 02 Apr 1998 15:45:57 +0200 Hi Zornheads, One little question: Yesterday I bought the new album by Arto Lindsay 'Noon Chill' (be fast by the way, because the first ones contain an extra 5 track cd with 4 remixes and one great noise track, remember aggregates ???) Anyway, in the liner notes arto says 'I wish dougie bowne had played on this record'.... Does anyone know what's up with dougie bowne??? Does anybody know if he will tour with arto ???? Please give me some answers..... -- Stefan Verstraeten sverstraeten@ufsia.ac.be http://www.ufsia.ac.be - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vadim Marmer <msvadi@olive.mscc.huji.ac.il> Subject: 20 Date: 02 Apr 1998 17:05:54 +0200 (WET) 1. A LOVE SUPREME - John Coltrane 2. THE KOLN CONCERT - Keith Jarrett 3. CATALOGUE - Ganelin Trio 4. SPY VS SPY - John Zorn 5. LIVE-EVIL - Miles Davis 6. DARK MAGUS - Miles Davis 7. Filles De Kilimanjaro - Miles Davis 8. FREE JAZZ - Ornette Coleman 9. Crescent - John Coltrane 10. First Meditations - John Coltrane 11. OLE - John Coltrane 12. Kind of Blue - Miles Davis 13. Death and the Flower - Keith Jarrett 14. Extrapolations - Mclaughlin 15. Double Rainbow - Joe Henderson 16. Headhaunters- Herbie Hancock 17. Third - Soft Machine 18. Birds of Fire -Mahavishnu Orc. 19. Haden/Matheny - Short Stories 20. The Shape of Jazz to Come - Ornette Coleman - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: 20 Records Date: 02 Apr 1998 15:12:16 GMT0BST This is completely pointless! Had I the time, I'd do a Martin Scorsese, ie submit a list 18 and a half times as long as the one requested. Louis Armstrong - Hot Fives And Sevens complete Jelly Roll Morton - Red Hot Chilli Peppers 1926-27 Robert Johnson - Complete Recordings Bukka White - Complete Vocalion (?) Recordings Billie Holiday - Complete Commodore (?), ie 1940s, Recordings Charlie Parker - Complete Royal Roost Recordings (or maybe Benedetti) Thelonious Monk - Complete Prestige Recordings (doesn't exist) Max Roach/Clifford Brown Quintet - Study In Brown or complete ... Sonny Rollins - Complete Prestige or whatever has Sax Colossus and Worktime and lots of stuff from 1956 and 1957 Charlie Mingus - at least a dozen albums I'm gonna cheat and cram them in one sleeve/box Booker Little - Lookin' Ahead (aka Victory And Sorrow aka ... And Friend) Eric Dolphy - Complete Prestige Recordings vs. Out To Lunch !! Max Roach - Percussion Bitter Sweet Ornette Coleman - Beauty Is A Rare Thing (or maybe Golden Circle) Cecil Taylor - Complete Candid Recordings John Coltrane - Vanguard? Atlantic? hell, I'm gonna cheat again, unless they put out the Complete Impulse recordings Miles Davis - This is getting ludicrous, I can barely, maybe, whittle Miles alone down to 20 albums Albert Ayler - Spiritual Unity/Prophecy/Vibrations/Hilversuum Jackie McLean - Complete Blue Note recordings (doesn't exist) Frank Zappa - Some Old Masters Box with Uncle Meat/Money/Weasels etc I haven't even got the 1970s yet (apart from Miles), so there's no point in continuing to list things like David Murray - Live At Sweet Basil (or maybe Deep River) Charles Brackeen - Worshippers Come Nigh Dave Holland, Paul Motian, aw hell, I give up ... consider me whupped Sean John Coltrane - Interstellar Space Albert Ayler - Spiritual Unity Charles Mingus - Presents Mingus Miles Davis - Filles de Kilimanjaro Capt. Beefheart - Clear Spot Charlie Parker - Dean Benedetti Recordings Thelonious Monk - Complete Prestige Records (don't exist, but should) Frank Zappa - We're Only In It For The Money Dave Holland - Seeds Of Time Clifford Brown/Max Roach Quintet - Study In Brown Ornette Coleman - This Is Our Music - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: 20 essential records Date: 02 Apr 1998 09:07:57 -0500 ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: Dan Given <dlgiven@julian.uwo.ca> at SMTP-for-MSSM >Tough question, but I'll take a shot. This is one from a different room >than (most of) my albums are in, so I'm sure as soon as I send this and >leave the room, I will see something on the shelf that should have been >included. >Not in any order Excellent list, Dan! Next to mine, the best one I've seen here! ;^) Some comments and questions: >Peter Brotzmann Die Like a Dog (FMP) >Anthony Braxton Seven Comp's (Trio) 1989 (HatArt) >Joe McPhee Oleo and A Future Retrospective (HatArt) All three are great; nice to see Joe make someone's list and I'd agree this is his best recorded work. >Charles Mingus Presents Charles Mingus (Candid) >Evan Parker 50th Birthday Concert (Leo) >Willem Breuker Bob's Gallery (BVHaast) Two of Breuker's almost made my list: 'Dreibergen-Zeist' and 'In Holland'. A wonderful band. I'm curious why you chose 'Bob's Gallery' out of all their stuff--big Larson fan? >Mats Gustaffson Parrot Fish Eye (OKKA) Could someone provide a brief review of this? I've almost picked it up on several occasions. >London Jazz Composers Orchestra Theoria (Intakt) Another that almost made my list; best record of the 1990's. >Cecil Taylor For Olim (Soul Note) >AMM The Nameless Uncarved Block >(Matchless) Derek Bailey Improvisatione (Cramps) >Jimmy Guiffre Free Fall >(Columbia) Ganelin Trio Poca a Poco >(Leo) Duke Ellington Blanton-Webster Years >(Columbia) Anthony Braxton Creative Orchestra Koln Agreed. Even better than the original Arista release. > (HatArt) >John Coltrane The Major Works of (Impulse) >Ornette Coleman Change of the Century (Atlantic) >George Lewis Homage to Charles Parker (Black Saint) Warms my heart that someone else included this one. What a beautiful album! >Spontaneous Music Ensemble Karyobin (Chronoscope) >Steve Lacy Weal and Woe (Emanem) Some details on this Lacy please; it doesn't ring a bell. I trust his distaff side isn't present here? Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "A. David Gross" <bliss@IDT.NET> Subject: SKIF2 Date: 02 Apr 1998 09:23:46 -0500 Bliss Records 36 Plaza Street East Brooklyn, NY 11238 (212) 330-0688 www.skifnyc.com For Immediate Release: Contact: Katie Down (212) 330-0688 SKIF2 (The Second Annual Sergey Kuryokhin International Festival) New, avant-garde and experimental music - May 6 through 10, 1998 From May 6th through the 10th, 1998, Bliss Records in association with The Russian-American Cultural Forum are pleased to announce The Second Annual Sergey Kuryokhin International Festival (SKIF2), celebrating the life and work of the innovative Russian pianist/composer/actor Sergey Kuryokhin (1954 - 1996). In January, 1997, cellist and composer Boris Rayskin organized the 11-day Sergey Kuryokhin International Interdisciplinary Festival (SKIIFestival) in New York City dedicated to the memory of Sergey Kuryokhin. Tragically, Boris's life ended soon after the festival. SKIF2 is dedicated in his memory. SKIF2 will once again bring together many artists with whom Kuryokhin collaborated, as well those close to his creative spirit, to perform in this eclectic musical celebration. The festival will showcase the most cutting edge avant-garde, jazz, and experimental rock musicians from Russia, the United States and Europe including: "Silver Apples", "Tequila Jazz", "Kolibri", Rashied Ali, Marilyn Crispell, "Tri-O", Vladimir Tarasov, Sakari Luoma, Yudanov and Katz, David Soldier, "White Out", Borah Bergman, Cyro Baptista, "Vershki da Koreshki", "The Slackers", Volkov-Trio, Spectre and Sensational, Ned Rothenberg, Anatole Gerasimov, Aleksey Khvostenko, William Hooker, DJ-Olive + WE, Peter Brotzman and special guest artist Chico Freeman and many more. Daniel Rayskin, Boris's Brother will perform a special piece dedicated to his late brother. "SKIF2", will be held at the best venues of New York City: THE COOLER, CAMI HALL, MERKIN HALL, and the ELBOW ROOM. The festival will be an opportunity for further collaboration between Russian, European and American performers who will share their music with New York audiences. SKIF2 is produced by Bliss Records in Association with The Russian-American Cultural Forum. Artistic Direction for the festival is provided by Seva Gakkel, chairman of the Board of The Sergey Kuryokhin Foundation, St. Petersburg, Russia, and Anatole Gerasimov. For more information call the SKIF HOTLINE at (212) 330-0688 or check out the web site at www.skifnyc.com PEace & lOve David Gross Bliss Records http://www.skifnyc.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Hanatarash (was top 20) Date: 02 Apr 1998 09:36:00 -0500 >>>>> "flamerik" == flamerik <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> writes: flamerik> I tend to put on flamerik> Hanatarash "4" when someone who thinks so is around my flamerik> house.. This showed up on another list as well. Could someone please provide a better review than what's at Forced Exposure? --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pierre Toussaint <m223024@er.uqam.ca> Subject: re: top 20 Date: 02 Apr 1998 09:48:24 -0500 I didn't want to participate to this. But it was eating me up. Here it is, in no particular order. Well, in fact, it reflects the order in wich they are (somewhat) classified... Miles Davis-Kind of Blue (columbia) essential for eating... les Granules-Aux royaume du silencieux "in the kingdom of the silence" (ambiances magnetiques) Rene Lussier-Le tresor de la langue "the treaure of language" (ambiances magnetiques) if you understand french, this is a must have Frank Zappa-the Grand Wazoo (ryko) the Young gods-Music of Kurt Weill (play it again sam) this band is great Sonic Youth-Daydream nation (geffen) Tom Waits-Frank's wild years (island) some zorn friends on this one Leonard Cohen-Songs of... (columbia) not only for rany days Boris Vian-Chansons possibles et impossible "Possible ans impossible songs" (philips) Funny... Daniel Belanger-Quatre saisons dans le desordre "The disorder of the seasons" (audiogram) Richard Desjardins-Les derniers humains "The last humans" (fukinic) Michel Faubert-Careme et Mardi-Gras "Lent and Shrove tuesday (milles-pattes) Essential if you like folklore in a avant-garde rock setting Naked City-Radio (avant) Eh, have you heard of this band before??? John Zorn-Bar Kokhba (tzadik) Philip Glass-Einstein on the beach (cbs) Philip Glass-Koyaanisqatsi "world out of balance" (island) Philip Glass-Music for the screens (point) Essential, not that glassy compared to the other two Kurt Weil-Speak low /with Anne Sofie von Otter (dgg) Steve Reich-the Desert music (nonesuch) (only because I had to choose) Bach-cello suites /with V. Rostropovich (emi) most anything by Erik Satie, Stravinsky, Edgar Varese, Meredith Monk and John Coltrane. It was fun, but I don't have enough CD's to really give a list of stranded island records... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar Subject: TOP 21 Date: 02 Apr 1998 11:48:33 -0300 In no particular order ASTOR PIAZZOLLA SEXTETO "Tango, Nuevo Tango" JONI MITCHELL "Night Ride Home" JOHN SCOFIELD "Grace Under Pressure" MISHA MENGELBERG "Who's Bridge" BAR KOKHBA "Masada Chamber Ensembles" ASTOR PIAZZOLLA "Tango Maestro" MILES DAVIS "Live in Montreux" LUIS ALBERTO SPINETTA "Estrelicia" WAYNE HORVITZ- THE PRESIDENT "Miracle Mile" NAKED CITY "Naked City" ZORN, LEWIS & FRISELL "News for Lulu" ZORN, LEWIS & Frisell "More News for Lulu" DINO SALUZZI, ANTHONY COX & DAVID FRIEDMAN "Rios" LUIS ALBERTO SPINETTA "Peluson of Milk" EGBERTO GISMONTI GROUP "Mzsica de Sobrevivencia" JOHN ZORN MASADA "Live" DAVID SYLVIAN "Live in Theatre 1988" SALIF KEITA "Folon"... The Past LIQUID SOUL "Liquid Soul" KAMIKAZE GROUND CREW "The Scenic Route" BILL FRISELL "Quartet" -Hugo, from Argentina - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: top 20 so far Date: 02 Apr 1998 06:35:10 -0800 Okay...the esteemed Dr, Wilkie is in....anyone else...we need a quorum... I'm thinking about volunteering to do a group Top 20 analysis...it might take a while...can anyone do it quickly... I do such a compilation every year from THE WIRE, CADENCE, CODA, and OPTION. Well, I didn't do it this year, or I would've posted the results. Still waiting for a list from Schwitterz....you out there dude? Keith - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: top 20 so far Date: 02 Apr 1998 08:58:09 -0600 (CST) On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Keith McMullen wrote: > Okay...the esteemed Dr, Wilkie is in....anyone else...we need a quorum... > > I'm thinking about volunteering to do a group Top 20 analysis...it might > take a while...can anyone do it quickly... It might be worth doing it by artist, as well as by album. I notice that a lot of artists appear frequently (Miles, Ornette, Braxton, Zorn, etc) but with little overlap on which album of theirs is chosen. - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rusty Crump <dmcrump@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu> Subject: Top 23 Date: 02 Apr 1998 09:01:32 -0600 How about a top 23 instead? 1. The Kinks Are the Village Green Preservation Society (Something Else may have RD's greatest single song, "Waterloo Sunset," but this is the better album.) 2. Yo La Tengo - Fakebook (By a nose over Painful and I Can Hear the Heart Beating As One) 3. various - Macro Dub Infection, Volume I 4. Richard & Linda Thompson - I Want To See the Bright Lights Tonight (Don't listen to this one with the lights off, or with any razor blades around.) 5. Ornette Coleman - Beauty Is a Rare Thing (This was a top-20 RELEASES, right? Or if it wasn't, it is now. Box sets are go!) 6. The Roches - The Roches (Produced by Robert Fripp. One of the most indescribably beautiful albums on the planet.) 7. The Compulsive Gamblers - Gambling Days Are Over (A short-lived Memphis group-- out of their ashes rose The Oblivians, but I prefer the Gamblers, thanks. Twisted rock and roll and soul and punk and booze, booze, booze. Dedicated to the notion that actually having a good time is about as likely as "finding a shiny silver dollar in a hot batch of dog shit." --per the liner notes. This is on Sympathy for the Record Industry, if it's still in print.) 8. Lambchop - How I Quit Smoking A psychotic episode as it might have been orchestrated and conducted by Nashville's great Billy Sherrill.) 9. Stereolab - Dots and Loops (Over their others because of the heavy John McEntire contributions.) 10. Big Star - #1 Record/Radio City (Essential pop document. Listen to this and you won't need any post-1965 Beatles. I don't know about the Ryko version, but the sound on my copy, a German import on Line Records, is crystalline.) 11. Aphex Twin - The Richard D. James Album 12. Eno - Another Green World 13. Frank Zappa - Uncle Meat 14. Frank Zappa - You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore, volume 2 (A full 1974 live show from Helsinki, by my favorite of FZ's bands -- George Duke, Napoleon Murphy Brock, Chester Thompson, Ruth Underwood, Tom Fowler, FZ. Both this and Uncle Meat sum up a very large amount of what FZ was about, but there are a dozen others of his that could make this list.) 15. Masada - 4. (For "Hobah" and no other reason.) 16. Naked City 17. The Essential Al Green (A British best-of on Demon/Hi. Al Green's voice makes me want to drop everything and have sex with the first person I see -- very embarrassing at times.) 18. Elvis Costello - Get Happy!! (Barely edging Armed Forces, Trust and Blood & Chocolate.) 19. Miles - In a Silent Way 20. Howlin' Wolf - His Greatest Sides, vol. 1 (A long-deleted vinyl compilation from back when Sugar Hill owned Chess. This gets the nod because it has "Down in the Bottom.") 21. Omnibus Wind Ensemble - Music by Frank Zappa (On OPUS3 Records. This really showcases FZ the composer, minus the distractions of the rubber giraffe filled with brown ale and shaving cream.) 22. Neil Young - Tonight's the Night 23. Doo Rag - What We Do (I think they created a new style -- cracker thrash.) Bjoern, you kooky human, thanks for the kickstart. This was fun, and readin the other lists has been a blast as well. Rusty Crump Oxford, Mississippi - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender (fwd) Date: 02 Apr 1998 10:15:59 -0500 (EST) i revised mine too... albert ayler _spiritual unity_ derek bailey _aida_ brian eno _another green world_ ben webster & coleman hawkins double lp on verve the fall _hex enduction hour_ roscoe mitchell art ensemble _congliptious_ slint _spiderland_ john coltrane _impressions_ ornette coleman _beauty is a rare thing_ box this heat _deceipt_ john zorn _spy vs. spy_ the minutemen _what makes a man start fires?_ anthology of american folk music ed. harry smith congos _heart of the congos_ black flag _first 4 years_ son house _death letter_ edgar varese _music of edgar varese_ charles mingus _mingus, mingus, mingus, mingus, mingus_ tom waits _swordfishtrombones_ sonic youth _daydream nation_ b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris Barrett" <cbarrett@neaq.org> Subject: 20 Date: 02 Apr 1998 10:16:41 -0500 Wow, this is tough. I dunno where to begin, but I'm not near my collection right now so I'll give it a shot: Jawbox - Jawbox Curtis Mayfield - Superfly Stevie Wonder - Innervisions King Crimson - Red Miles - Kind of Blue Masada - Heit (or One if that's not one) Pigpen - V as in Victim Prince - Emancipation Sonny Sharrock - Ask the Ages Todd Rundgren - Something/Anything Naked City - Radio Helmet - Betty 24-7 Spyz - 6 Louis And Ella - Together Again Oliver Nelson - Blues and the Abstract Truth Steely Dan - Aja King Crimson - Beat Tom Waits - Swordfishtrombones Tom Waits - Frank's Wild Years Radiohead - OK Computer of course, ten minutes from now this could change.... -Chris - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Ikue Mori's B/Side Date: 02 Apr 1998 09:58:54 -0500 A couple weeks back, one or two folks here asked for opinions on Mori's latest. It's not bad, though fans of her more rock-oriented ('Painted Desert') things might be put off. It's very much in the pure soundtrack vein, as opposed to the more song-oriented work found in many of Zorn's projects. Her drum machine and sampler are dominant, sometimes to excellent effect (the wonderfully titled 'Bulldozer's Song') but sometimes uneasily reminiscent of that mid-80's drum machine sound, a bit tinny and hollow for my taste. On the final two cuts, she obtains an interesting toy piano-like sound and mixes in some rather Partchian rhythms very nicely. Worth hearing, though I'm still waiting to hear a recording as impressive as her improv work with Bailey and Zorn last fall at KF. That was just extraordinary. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: don cab II Date: 02 Apr 1998 10:25:31 -0500 (EST) On Wed, 1 Apr 1998, Landon Thorpe wrote: > Boy am I glad to see this pop up on a top 20 list! It would definitely be > on my top 20 list, too (forthcoming, hopefully). Does anyone else feel > strongly about this band and esp. this album? I think Don Caballero has a > lot to say about composition and group improvisation and blurring the line > between the two. Some passages seem like they must be improvised, but the > group performance is so tight that I wonder if they are. Can anyone shed > any light on this? having seen them play some of the material from _II_, i would say that you might be surprised how much is composed. their newest material seems to be part composed part improvised, but definitely not locked into the kind of tight changes on _for respect_. the new stuff definitely sounds more like storm & stress with those damon che rock-solid beats underneath. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Twenty Date: 02 Apr 1998 14:03:10 UT I tried this at home last night sitting in front of my collection and stopped at about 50. So maybe here at work I'll be more honest: Order in which they come to mind: 1) Elysian Fields - Burn Your Cedar Mr Bungle - Disco Volante Jamiroquai - Emergency on Planet Earth Sly and the Family Stone - Fresh 5) Air - Moon Safari Getz/Gilberto Space Age Pop Vol 1 (RCA) Yes - Relayer Soft Machine - Volume Two 10) Beastie Boys - Check Your Head/Paul's Boutique Carl Stone - Mom's Helmet - Meantime 5ive Style - s/t Ed Hall - Motherscratcher 15) Dr. Nerve - Skin Dazzling Killmen - the second album, I forget the name Melvins - Ozma Blossom Dearie - Sings Rootin' Songs v/a - Arrhythmia II 20) King Crimson - Starless and Bible Black/Red THere's more. Two things I noticed. One, not much jazz, and only the sunniest happiest jazz when it's on there. I'm not a big jazzbo, but it looks like a lot of other people on the list are not either. I think that's cool that a "jazz" artist like Zorn can bring together such disparate elements in his work that he attracts music lovers from all ends of the spectrum. Two, if you had asked me four years ago, the list woulda been full of Fishbone, Primus, PFunk, stuff like that. Seven years ago it woulda been Throwing Muses, They Might Be Giants, Smiths, etc. All still excellent albums, albums I'd never trade, but I don't need to listen to them any more. Usually. And if I had to pick a Zorn album, it'd be a tough choice between Naked City's first and The Big Gundown. But I'd probably pack Naked City. Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re:looking for some info on these albums Date: 02 Apr 1998 15:27:44 UT << GANRYU ISLAND: Michihiro Sato and John Zorn >> At the radio station I worked at, someone had scrawled on the jacket: Champion Airwave Clearing Music Which it was indeed. Zorn is Zorn at his noisy squealing best and Sato plays some sort of asian stringed instrument I think. So, it's the two of them whooping it up with extreme noise free jazz improvs. The asain instrument is extremely twangy and in a non-western tonality, I think, so it had a particular edge to it that made it definitely difficult listening. Anyway, I've always held a soft spot for the record in the same place I hold Classic Guide to Strategy One and Two. Not pretty music, but a lot of fun noise. If you dig these records, you'll probably like the Sato/Zorn thing. Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "A.Bueno" <jabu@sminter.com.ar> Subject: Re: 20 is not enough Date: 02 Apr 1998 12:35:37 -0300 A.Bueno wrote: > > A.Bueno wrote: > > > > No special order > > > > ZAPPA Weasels rippes my flesh > > C.BEEFHEART Shiny Beast > > HENDRIX Band of Gypsies > > K.CRIMSON Starless and bible black > > ROLAND KIRK Infalted tear > > COLTRANE Live in Japan > > ART ENSEMBLE OF CHICAGO Full Force > > XENAKIS Kraanerg > > G.SCELSI SUITES #9 & 10 > > CAGE SONATAS & INTERLUDES FOR PREPARED PIANO > > MILES DAVIS Agharta > > HERMETO PASCOAL Live at Montreux > > SUN RA Live at montreux > > JOHNNY WINTER And live > > ALLMAN BROTHERS Live at Fillmore > > INVISIBLE Invisible > > TEN YEARS AFTER Undead > > BLOODCOUNT Unwound > > TIM BUCKLEY Lorca > > BRAXTON Koln 72 > > > > - > how could i forget > > ornette coleman shape of jazz.. > santana ,lotus > vienna art orchestra ,suiteof green eighties > irene schweitzer ,many and one direction > messiaen,coleurs de la cite cel... > john adams, shaker loops > conlon nancarrow,sudies for piano > stevie ray vaughan,texas flood > jethro tull,aqualung > gentle giant,live > charlie mingus,live at antibes > eric dolphy,out to lunch > ligeti,Mechanical works > cecil taylor 3 phasis > someck & sharp ,revenge of... > mahavishnu orchestra ,between nothing.... > elp, brain salad surgery > cactus same > led zeppelin 1st > focus, moving waves And what about BUTCH MORRIS MONUMENTAL "TESTAMENT" X-LEGGED SALLY EGGS & ASHES BACK DOOR same I promise to stop this - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: y9d62@TTACS.TTU.EDU Subject: 20 CDs Date: 02 Apr 1998 09:36:41 -0600 (CST) ALTRUDA, JOEY Coctails With Joey BASE OF FICTION Base of Fiction BEATLES Abbey Road BEATLES Past Masters BEATLES White Album BEACH BOYS Good Vibrations Box CAN Ege Bamyasi DAVIS, MILES Nefertiti DEBUSSY La Mer, Nocturnes GERSHWIN Rhapsody In Blue (Bernstein) HAPPY FAMILY Toscco KING CRIMSON Red MESSIAEN Mystic METERS Funky Miracle MR. BUNGLE Disco Volante NEWMAN, RANDY Sail Away STRAVINSKY Rite of Spring ZORN, JOHN Grand Guignol, Circle Maker Dominique - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark Saleski <marks@foliage.com> Subject: Re: 20 Records Date: 02 Apr 1998 11:09:52 -0500 my, oh my, was this difficult!! Bailey/Kaiser - Wireforks Ginger Baker - Horses and Trees Black Sabbath - Black Sabbath Greg Brown - A Live One Ornette Coleman - Beauty Is A Rare Thing Coltrane - A Love Supreme Miles Davis - Kind Of Blue Miles Davis - In A Silent Way Grateful Dead - Blues For Allah Ronnie Earl - I Like It When It Rains Bill Frizell - Before We Were Born Gorecki - Symphony #3 Joe Jackson - Live Pat Metheny Group - Offramp Pat Metheny Group - Imaginary Day Pat Metheny Group - Travels Mozart - Requiem Marc Ribot - Rootless Cosmopolitans Bruce Springsteen - Born To Run Zappa - The Best Band You Never Heard... Zappa - Jazz From Hell - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: what's up with dougie bowne & arto lindsay ??????? Date: 02 Apr 1998 08:28:09 -0800 On Thu, 02 Apr 1998 15:45:57 +0200 Stefan Verstraeten wrote: > > Hi Zornheads, > One little question: Yesterday I bought the new album by Arto Lindsay > 'Noon Chill' (be fast by the way, because the first ones contain an > extra 5 track cd with 4 remixes and one great noise track, remember > aggregates ???) Anyway, in the liner notes arto says 'I wish dougie > bowne had played on this record'.... > Does anyone know what's up with dougie bowne??? Does anybody know if he > will tour with arto ???? Dougie has been seriously ill for the past two years. Patrice. > Please give me some answers..... > -- > Stefan Verstraeten > sverstraeten@ufsia.ac.be > http://www.ufsia.ac.be > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: masada on sale Date: 02 Apr 1998 08:35:44 -0800 Peter Hollo writes: > I still think Bar Kokhba's even better, but perhaps it's because I'm a > string player, or perhaps because, whilst I think the playing is superb > on the Masadas, free jazz still leaves me a bit cold, whereas the Masada > String Trio is just so totally lush and, oooh what can you say?! > I can say that perspective does funny things! Coming from the direction of originally being a jazz musician, Masada strikes me as top-notch, straight-ahead contemporary jazz, with the emphasis on contemporary, while things like "Yankees" are free. But the only thing that really matters is that it sounds good to people. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: 20 Records Date: 02 Apr 1998 08:23:48 -0800 Previous discussion notwithstanding, I almost put Zappa's BEST BAND YOU NEVER HEARD IN YOUR LIFE or MAKE A JAZZ NOISE HERE on my list. Kudos to those who have. Also SOFT MACHINE THIRD still gets regular airplay here. I listened to KIND OF BLUE so much it has drifted away, but belongs. Are REMAIN IN LIGHT or BUSH OF GHOSTS on any lists? I'm cheating. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: 20 Records Date: 02 Apr 1998 08:57:23 -0800 I should have never done that, but here we go (just the tip of my iceberg of favorites). (Bjorn, you should have asked a list per genre; thinking about that more, it would still have been a pain :-). In order of (approximate) release year (the ones with the "#" got removed only to make the list 20-long -- my sneaky way to add more to a list that should have been at least 200-long): KIND OF BLUE: Miles Davis (Columbia) A LOVE SUPREME: John Coltrane (Impulse!) A RAINBOW IN CURVED AIR: Terry Riley (Columbia) SERGENT PEPPER: Beatles (EMI) # SINFONIA: Luciano Berio # IN A SILENT WAY: Miles Davis # BLASE: Archie Shepp (Charly) # ALL THINGS MUST PASS: George Harrison (Apple) MUSIC IN SIMILAR MOTION: Phil Glass (Chatham) # FOUR ORGANS: Steve Reich (Shandar) ZIGGY STARDUST: David Bowie # JUST ANOTHER BAND FROM LA: Frank Zappa CHRIS McGREGOR BROTHERHOOD OF BREATH: s/t (Neon) RA 1 + 2: Evan Parker, Paul Lytton (Ring) NOT AVAILABLE: The Residents (Raph) # EINSTEIN ON THE BEACH: Phil Glass (Tomato) MUSIC FOR EIGHTEEN MUSICIANS: Steve Reich (ECM) # TEHILLIM: Steve Reich (ECM) # THE DREAMING: Kate Bush HOUNDS OF LOVE: Kate Bush SONGS: Steve Lacy (Hat Hut) LOCUS SOLUS: John Zorn (Tzadik) # DENSE BAND: David Moss (Moers) ENVY: Ambitious Lovers (Virgin) THESE THINGS HAPPEN: David Van Tieghem (Warner) FACTOR X: Rhys Chatham (Moers) THIS NEW GENERATION: Wayne Horvitz (Elektra) # CLAUDE'S LATE MORNING: Bobby Previte (Gramavision) IT WAS A DARK AND STORMY NIGHT: Nicholas Collins (Trace Elements) LIBERATION: The Divine Comedy (Setanta) # SAISORO: Derek Bailey and Ruins I CAN HEAR THE HEART BEATING AS ONE: Yo La Tengo (Matador) And how could I avoid citing the following: PELEAS ET MELISSANDE: Claude Debussy PETROUCHKA: Igor Stravinski THE RITE OF SPRINGS: Igor Stravinski LES NOCES: Igor Stravinski JEUX: Claude Debussy MUSIC FOR STRINGS, PERCUSSION, AND CELESTA: Bela Bartok QUATUOR POUR LA FIN DU TEMPS: Olivier Messiaen PETITES LITURGIES DE LA PRESENCE DIVINE: Olivier Messiaen - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re:20 Date: 02 Apr 1998 09:10:18 -0800 This time, I can't resist the herd impulse: Glenn Gould; Goldberg Variations, 2nd recording Steve Lacy and Mal Waldron; Sempre Amore Cecil Taylor; Looking w/Feel Trio Tony Williams; Spring Stravinksy; Petrushka/Rite of Spring (Stravinsky Conducting) Mahler; Symphony 4/Songs of a Wayfarer (Szell, Cleveland Symphony) Zorn; Big Gundown Tom Waits; Franks Wild Years Sibelius; Symphony 2/7 (Ormandy and Philly) Adams; Harmonielehre (De Waart and SF) Reich; Music for 18 Musicians Art Ensemble of Chicago; Urban Bushmen Ornette Coleman; Beauty is a Rare Thing Shostakovich; String Quartets (Manhattan 4tet) Beethoven; Symphonies (Gardiner and Orchestre Revolutionaire . . .) Berg; Violin Concerto (Anne-Sophie Mutter) Elvis Costello; This Year's Model Webern; Complete Works (Boulez on Sony) Mozart; Symphony 40/41 (Bernstein and VPO) Charlie Parker; Complete Savoy RecordingsDial Recordings/Verve Recordings subject to change, of course! gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Keldon Drudge <kdrudge@julian.uwo.ca> Subject: another 20 Date: 02 Apr 1998 12:12:07 -0500 (EST) elastica cherry/haden/blackwell/remand old & new dreams (ecm 1979) elvis costello this year's model eno here come the warm jets honegger symphonies 2 & 3 (jansons/oslo phil.; emi) ornette coleman beauty is a rare thing (magically squashed onto one disc) janacek string quartets 1 & 2 (hagen quartet; dg) jazz butcher fishcoteque mahler/caine urlicht/primal light masada 7 bill monroe columbia historic edition new order movement nits urk astor piazzola tango: zero hour rem automatic for the people scriabin piano sonatas (szidon; dg) shostakovich jazz music (chailly, concertgebouw orc.; london) talk talk laughing stock togashi/cherry/haden song of soil tom waits black rider wire pink flag john zorn filmworks 1986-1990 anthology of american folk music please don't count... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rusty Crump <dmcrump@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu> Subject: Re: 20 Records Date: 02 Apr 1998 11:15:50 -0600 >Previous discussion notwithstanding, I almost put Zappa's BEST BAND YOU >NEVER HEARD IN YOUR LIFE or MAKE A JAZZ NOISE HERE on my list. Kudos to >those who have. > >Also SOFT MACHINE THIRD still gets regular airplay here. > >I listened to KIND OF BLUE so much it has drifted away, but belongs. > >Are REMAIN IN LIGHT or BUSH OF GHOSTS on any lists? > >I'm cheating. > > >- I came THIS close to putting both Remain in Light and Bush of Ghosts (original vinyl version) on my list. But it was already 23 items long, going on fifty. Rusty Crump Oxford, Mississippi - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: musique concrete Date: 02 Apr 1998 12:16:23 -0500 (EST) > > Things brings up the question of whether to make a distinction between > > prjects like the above, or "bands" such as Zoviet France,the Hafler Trio, > > Nurse With Wound, and the more 'accademic' electroacoustic composers such > > as Stockhausen. Some albums by NWW (not all) are very much in this vein, > Dunno about this distinction; these "bands" owe as much to an academic > tradition as some of the more "academic" composers; the main difference is > in their marketing strategy: I understand Todd Dockstader (e.g.) was (snip) > distinction between 'popular' and 'academic' even further. But to me, > these terms are only indications of how many units a particular title > managed to shift. Actually, i think a very valid point was raised here a little while ago that there really are formal differences between 'academic' and 'underground' electroacousticians, with the former making more use of dynamic changes and tension/release passages (which is very much part of the western concert music tradition) while the latter tend towards more sprawling ambient drones and such. I think there's something in that. -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: record-recommendations needed Date: 02 Apr 1998 12:25:55 -0500 (EST) > louis andriessen I have the Bang on a Can Cd entitled 'industry' which includes two longish works by Andriessen: 'hocket' and some other one whose title escapes me right now, but which consisits of several musicians in a very close cannon (an eighth note apart). This CD also has a brilliant piece for solo cello and distortion pedal by Micheal Gordon, played by Maya Beiser (sp). Hocket is an amazing piece, consisting entirely of the technique it's named after. Its for two ensembles consisting of electric bass, pan pipes, saxophone, vibraphone, cello, and i'm not sure about the instrumentation exactly but you get the idea. It took the musicians a year to learn how to play properly. -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Bush of Ghosts/Remain in Light Date: 02 Apr 1998 17:26:44 UT Bush of Ghosts is one of my favorite albums of all time, and I was recently introduced to Remain in Light, which is also excellent. How far backwards/forwards should I go listening to Talking Heads before I get away from this sound? Private emails, if this in inappropriate for the list. Thanks, Peter risser@goodnews.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: magnum-jihad@juno.com (Nathan M Earixson) Subject: Re: looking for some info on these albums Date: 02 Apr 1998 11:16:08 -0600 On Thu, 2 Apr 1998 15:27:44 UT peter_risser@cinfin.com writes: ><< >GANRYU ISLAND: Michihiro Sato and John Zorn ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Wasn't that one of the Samurai Trilogy movies, Starring Toshiro Mifune? Or was that a different Island? _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: musique concrete Date: 02 Apr 1998 09:36:53 -0800 On Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:16:23 -0500 (EST) ia zha nah er vesen wrote: > > > > Things brings up the question of whether to make a distinction between > > > prjects like the above, or "bands" such as Zoviet France,the Hafler Trio, > > > Nurse With Wound, and the more 'accademic' electroacoustic composers such > > > as Stockhausen. Some albums by NWW (not all) are very much in this vein, > > > Dunno about this distinction; these "bands" owe as much to an academic > > tradition as some of the more "academic" composers; the main difference is > > in their marketing strategy: I understand Todd Dockstader (e.g.) was > (snip) > > distinction between 'popular' and 'academic' even further. But to me, > > these terms are only indications of how many units a particular title > > managed to shift. > > Actually, i think a very valid point was raised here a little while ago > that there really are formal differences between 'academic' and > 'underground' electroacousticians, with the former making more use of > dynamic changes and tension/release passages (which is very much part of > the western concert music tradition) while the latter tend towards more > sprawling ambient drones and such. I think there's something in that. I think that the main difference is that one has "Composer" on his business card (and, to a lesser extent, some subsidies and a desk in a University). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: magnum-jihad@juno.com (Nathan M Earixson) Subject: Re: 20 essential records Date: 02 Apr 1998 10:56:59 -0600 jeez, this was hard. King Crimson--RED Sonny Sharrock--ASK THE AGES John Zorn--BAR KOCHBA Tom Waits--FRANKS WILD YEARS Husker Du--ZEN ARCADE Miles Davis--BITCHES' BREW Ornette Coleman--FREE JAZZ Ikue Mori--PAINTED DESERT Richard Thompson--RUMOUR AND SIGH Feelies--CRAZY RHYTHMS John Coltrane--AFRICA BRASS Don Caballero-2 Steve Beresford-SIGNALS FOR TEA Tim Berne-FULTON STREET MAUL Pixies--COME ON PILGRIM Lounge Lizards--self-titled Bailey,Zorn,Parker-HARRASS (sp?) Television--THE BLOW UP (LIVE) Praxis-TRANSMUTATION Pigpen--LIVE IN POLAND so incomplete........... _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: Naked City Date: 02 Apr 1998 12:42:35 -0500 (EST) > Okay, who out there knows ALL the Naked City records, and what can you > tell me about each one? Very quickly: the self titled one is amazing, and very fun, with covers of spy music, some tracks from the infamous torture garden, and a whole lot of jump-cut originals. Beutiful sound, too... 'radio' is the one i listen to the least. It's 19 tracks, not as good productions as the first one, and the songs don't catch me as much. It starts out fairly tame (for them) and ends on some very zorney notes, with crazy jump cuts and noise and the whole bit 'grand guignol' is more like three smaller albums. The first song is 17 miunutes, and it's an ominous, rumbly, burst-of-noise injected horror-show soundtrack. The next few are interpretations of classical music, ranging from Ives, Messien, Debussy, DeLassus and Scriabin. The last 34 or so songs comprise the rest of the infamous torture garden. 'absinthe' is haunting, subtle, spooky, quiet (at times), and very experimental. It doesn't sound like Naked City at all at all at all - Zorn doesn't even play on this one. It's amazing, though. 'heretic' is a bunch of smaller combos made up from the Naked City group, with only one song featuring all of them. The rest are duets/trios, and are improvised (at least, they sound like it). It's interesting. ta da. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Musique-Concrete; 3rd Stream Date: 02 Apr 1998 10:02:25 -0800 May I suggest a great electronic record by a Composer, capital "C," with a more pop sensibility than you'll find in the pages of Computer Music Journal; the record is "Mom's" on New Albion, the Composer is Carl Stone. It's the best of all worlds; ambient, cut-ups, constructed tension and release; rhythms. The most listenable electronic music I know. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: musique concrete Date: 02 Apr 1998 12:11:49 -0600 (CST) On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > On Thu, 2 Apr 1998 12:16:23 -0500 (EST) ia zha nah er vesen wrote: > > > > Actually, i think a very valid point was raised here a little while ago > > that there really are formal differences between 'academic' and > > 'underground' electroacousticians, with the former making more use of > > dynamic changes and tension/release passages (which is very much part of > > the western concert music tradition) while the latter tend towards more > > sprawling ambient drones and such. I think there's something in that. > > I think that the main difference is that one has "Composer" on his > business card (and, to a lesser extent, some subsidies and a desk in > a University). I think ia zha has a valid point here. To a great extent, popular music tends to have a much narrower dynamic range than concert music. Even when the popular music has contrasting densities, the recording or performance is often compressed to such an extent that the resulting loudness remains steady. In a concert hall, one can expect to have the full attention of the audience, who are willing and expected to burrow down into the quiet sounds and be engulfed by the loud ones. In the environments in which popular musics are usually experienced (the home, cars, radio, clubs) there is a lot of ambient sound to deal with; you may have had the experience of listening to a recording of concert music and having to turn it up to hear the quiet stuff and down to avoid breaking your lease :-). (There are instances of extreme dynamic shifts in pop records -- the openings of King Crimson's "In the Court of the Crimson King" and Pink Floyd's "The Wall" come to mind, but they tend to be there for the surprise value and occur at the beginning of a CD or an album side, so that once the listener has jumped up and reset the volume to an appropriate setting, it stays constant.) So, yeah, it makes sense that music written for total-attention-listening environments would tend to include more dynamic shifts. It also makes sense that these musics would come out of the academic environments, where there's more chance to hear them in their native environment (that is, the concert hall). Musics composed for other environments, and by composers from non-academic settings would have the steady volumes that, for these practical reasons, is typical of this kind of music. - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rusty Crump <dmcrump@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu> Subject: Re: Bush of Ghosts/Remain in Light Date: 02 Apr 1998 12:20:46 -0600 >Bush of Ghosts is one of my favorite albums of all time, and I was recently >introduced to Remain in Light, which is also excellent. How far >backwards/forwards should I go listening to Talking Heads before I get >away from >this sound? > >Private emails, if this in inappropriate for the list. > >Thanks, >Peter > > > >risser@goodnews.net > >- Remain/Bush are of a piece, I'd say, and almost unique. Nothing in the T.Heads discography after Remain sounds like that. Fear of Music, the previous album, sort of leads up to Remain (the same way that Station to Station can be seen as a prelude to the Bowie/Eno Berlin Trilogy). Some similarities, especially in "I Zimbra." Record two of the HIGHLY underrated live album (The Name of This Band Is Talking Heads) consists of live versions of a few Remain in Light songs and others, arranged for that kind of funk-heavy effect, for the expanded band that toured after Remain came out. 2nd bassist Busta Cherry Jones, Adrian Belew, Worrell, Scales, Nona Hendryx, etc. -- highly recommended, much more than the "Stop Making Sense" soundtrack. P-Funk meets Television? Only their hairdressers know for sure. Another Eno album from the same period that worked a similar vein was Fourth World Vol. 1: Possible Musics by Eno and Jon Hassell. Also recommended. Rusty Crump Oxford, Mississippi - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Artur Nowak <arno@silesia.top.pl> Subject: Top 20 disappointments Date: 02 Apr 1998 20:25:54 +0200 The feedback to BJOERN's question was amazing, but, on the other hand, people always like to talk about their favourite albums, cars, lipsticks, food, movies, sex partners... ;-) I have other question: WHAT IS YOUR GREATEST MUSIC DISSAPOINTMENT? Did you bought an album recommended by somebody and get frustrated by the poor quality of the music (BJOERN?) ? Did you wait for months for a CD and wanted to destroy it after first listening (because you spent 20$ for 20 minutes long japanese import)? After first look at the "Top 20" replies it seems that Zorn is not the favourite artist on the "John Zorn Mailing List" (way behind Davis, Coltrane, Faith no More, King Crimson, David Bowie...). I can bet he will be mentioned frequently on the "Top 20 disappointment" list! Please, do not mail John Zorn discography in replies! Artur %-X ---------------------------------- Artur Nowak (arno@silesia.top.pl) Licht und Liebe sich entzuenden Wo sich Streng' und Milde finden. Zorn und Finsternis entbrennen Wo sich Streng' und Milde trennen. ---------------------------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: perojo@unsl.edu.ar Subject: testin Date: 02 Apr 1998 13:01:47 -0300 (GMT-0300) testing 2 ... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: 20 Records (Rock sub-division) Date: 02 Apr 1998 12:24:35 -0500 Author: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> at SMTP-for-MSSM I should have never done that, but here we go (just the tip of my iceberg of favorites). (Bjorn, you should have asked a list per genre; thinking about that more, it would still have been a pain :-). Hey, what the hell. As long as we're indulging our anal selves here, and since my original list consisted almost entirely of jazz and contemporary classical, here's my top 20 rock albums. NB: Of course, distinctions between genres are often arbitrary, but the following strike me as more 'rock' than otherwise; opinions may differ. 1) Glenn Branca The Ascension 2) John Zorn Leng T'che 3) Captain Beefheart Lick My Decals Off, Baby 4) Captain Beefheart Trout Mask Replica 5) Fripp/Eno No Pussyfooting 6) Rhys Chatham Die Donnergotter 7) Glenn Branca Symphony #6 8) Glenn Branca Symphonies #8 & 10 9) Julie Tippetts Sunset Glow 10) Laurie Anderson Big Science 11) Glenn Branca Symphony #2 12) Jimi Hendrix Electric Ladyland 13) Fripp/Eno Evening Star 14) Caspar Brotzmann Home 15) Blind Idiot God Blind Idiot God 16) Elliott Sharp Larynx 17) Jimi Hendrix Are You Experienced? 18) John Fahey The Legend of Blind Joe Death 19) The Roches The Roches 20) Frank Zappa Burnt Weenie Sandwich Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel) Subject: Re: Miller / Noyes // plus: new CDs Date: 02 Apr 1998 21:04:24 +0200 > On Mon, 30 Mar 1998 08:05:03 +0200 Chris Genzel wrote: >> >> Through "Locus Solus" and the first Golden Palominos album, I became >> interested >> in Mark (M.E.) Miller. I know he's on the Material "Live From Soundscape" >> CD, >> but I can't distinguish him from Moss and Noyes on this set. >> What can you tell me about Miller? What recordings of his are available and >> recommended? Is he still active? > > Tidbit about Mark Miller: he is married to a country singer in San Francisco; > they have a band together that plays lots of weddings [it was a couple years > ago]. So it seems like his musically more adventurous days are gone ... is he still throwing firecrackers into the audience? :) > > > The same question goes for Charles K. Noyes -- I love his appearance on > > "Memory Serves" and I also have "Improvised Music New York 1981". > > > > Kind regards, > > - Chris. C'mon, there must be something you know about Miller and Noyes, or at least a record you could recommend. - Chris. P.S. Yesterday I went to Munich for my monthly big CD orgy and I came back with these CDs: SXL - Into the Outlands New York Gong - About Time Bob Ostertag - Verbatim The Last Poets - Time Has Come Jonas Hellborg with Buckethead and Michael Shrieve - Octave of the Holy Innocents Ground-Zero - Revolutionary Pekinese Opera Ver.1.28 (I just listened to this--what a great, weird and noisy thang. Are there significant differences between v1.28 and the other version(s)?) Divination - Light In Extension The Dark Side Of The Moog VI (Pete Namlook, Klaus Schulze, Bill Laswell) Daevid Allen - Divided Alien Clockwork Band And on Monday, I finally got "Cypher 7: Security" and "Buckethead: The Day Of The Robot" which I ordered some time ago. What a lucky guy I am to get hold of all this wonderful music. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris Barrett" <cbarrett@neaq.org> Subject: Re: Top 20 disappointments Date: 02 Apr 1998 14:11:54 -0500 >The feedback to BJOERN's question was amazing, but, on the other hand, >people always like to talk about their favourite albums, cars, lipsticks, >food, movies, sex partners... ;-) >I have other question: > >WHAT IS YOUR GREATEST MUSIC DISSAPOINTMENT? > >Did you bought an album recommended by somebody and get frustrated by the >poor quality of the music (BJOERN?) ? Did you wait for months for a CD and >wanted to destroy it after first listening (because you spent 20$ for 20 >minutes long japanese import)? > >After first look at the "Top 20" replies it seems that Zorn is not the >favourite artist on the "John Zorn Mailing List" (way behind Davis, >Coltrane, Faith no More, King Crimson, David Bowie...). I can bet he will >be mentioned frequently on the "Top 20 disappointment" list! > >Please, do not mail John Zorn discography in replies! > >Artur %-X > > ---------------------------------- > Artur Nowak (arno@silesia.top.pl) > Licht und Liebe sich entzuenden > Wo sich Streng' und Milde finden. > Zorn und Finsternis entbrennen > Wo sich Streng' und Milde trennen. > ---------------------------------- > > >- Great idea. Now we get down to the nitty gritty. This one's easier. I can't think of 20 off of my head, but there are a few major ones.... Last Exit (whatever the first album title was)...After hearing so much about it, AND after starting to listen to Zorn's weirder stuff and King Crimson's weirder stuff, I absolutely hated this CD. I actually stooped to the level of microwaving it in a dish of water until weird little cracks appeared below the surface to return it and get something else. ("wow, man, that's really wierd, I've never seen a CD do that before"). I know, I know how bad that is (like pouring out a beer in front of an alcoholic). Derek Bailey & Ruins - Sainsoro. I guess I just don't get the whole Derek Bailey thing. I think he takes away from Ruins (I have Hyderomasteg...whatever and I like that one a lot). Zorn/Naked City - Torture Garden - I'm gonna catch a lot of flak for this one, but after the first dozen or so pieces I find them pretty uninteresting. There's only so many times I can hear a bunch of styles sandwiched between thrash parts and Eye's screams and then have the piece end after 20 seconds. I bought this one after getting Naked City and Absinthe without knowing anything about each Naked City release before I bought 'em, and I already knew I didn't like the short pieces that much, so when I realized this was 42 (or is it 46) of 'em after I got it home and opened it, ugh. Leonard Cohen - Best Of - After hearing so many people cite him as a major influence and hearing people on the Tom Waits listserv rave about him I borrowed a friend's CD. I didn't find his lyrics special at all, and I really disliked the music. I like noise, but I guess at the bottom of it I'm a melody guy. I like the noise to have some sort of melody buried in it somewhere. I guess that puts me at odds with many of Zorn's releases, but I'll never stop cheking them out. I would never get rid of the Bailey/Ruins or Torture Gardne releases. I periodically go back to them to see if I get 'em, but no progress yet. -Chris - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Top 20 disappointments Date: 02 Apr 1998 14:09:01 -0500 >>>>> "Artur" == Artur Nowak <arno@silesia.top.pl> writes: Artur> WHAT IS YOUR GREATEST MUSIC DISSAPOINTMENT? Geez, my mailbox is still so full from the recommendations! Not 20 disappointments, but here's a few. 1) Blue Cheer - InsideOutside. I remembered this one fondly from my early years, and I see Blue Cheer mentioned as an influence on new psych bands a lot, but it was a big disappointment when I picked it up again. 2) Blauer Hirsch. Penguin Jazz Guide compared this to Last Exit, and I liked Gysi's work on Domestic Stories, but this has all the volume and none of the subtlety of most of the loud noise we like to discuss. 3) Jean Schwarz - Quatre Saisons. German lieder sung by a tenor with musique concrete accompaniment. Taught me to do better research before taking chances on complete unknowns, and that not all musique concrete is listenable (much less interesting). Artur> After first look at the "Top 20" replies it seems that Zorn Artur> is not the favourite artist on the "John Zorn Mailing List" Artur> (way behind Davis, Coltrane, Faith no More, King Crimson, Artur> David Bowie...). I can bet he will be mentioned frequently Artur> on the "Top 20 disappointment" list! 4) Two Zorn disappointments are my one Masada disk (probably Masada two) and Leng T'che. I find Eye's screaming very difficult to take even in small doses, although one of the other albums with him in a prominent place (Heretic?) is more listenable. Also, I agree with an earlier poster that the variety of Zorn's output is largely responsible for the variety in taste that we've seen in the top 20 exercise. Some of the lists have had only jazz, some no jazz at all, some all noise, lots of classical. I've been amazed at our collective extremely varied taste. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: Top 20 disappointments Date: 02 Apr 1998 14:29:20 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Chris Barrett wrote: > Derek Bailey & Ruins - Sainsoro. I guess I just don't get the whole Derek > Bailey thing. I think he takes away from Ruins (I have > Hyderomasteg...whatever and I like that one a lot). this is really more like a derek bailey record than a ruins one. i wouldn't recommend it to anyone until they get into bailey. after that the derek & the ruins disc seems like such a great idea. > Leonard Cohen - Best Of - After hearing so many people cite him as a > major influence and hearing people on the Tom Waits listserv rave about him > I borrowed a friend's CD. I didn't find his lyrics special at all, and I > really disliked the music. what i like about cohen is the cynical realism of his songs, so many of which are about various stages of loving someone. no sentimental tripe-peddler would dare sing about blowjobs in the chelsea hotel. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: Musique-Concrete; 3rd Stream Date: 02 Apr 1998 14:16:37 -0500 >Subject: Musique-Concrete; 3rd Stream >Author: <george_grella@decisionanalytics.com > at SMTP-for-MSSM >Date: 4/2/98 10:02 AM >May I suggest a great electronic record by a Composer, capital "C," >with a more pop sensibility than you'll find in the pages of Computer >Music Journal; the record is "Mom's" on New Albion, the Composer is >Carl Stone. It's the best of all worlds; ambient, cut-ups, constructed >tension and release; rhythms. The most listenable electronic music I >know. Strongly seconded; another release considered for the Top 20. All of Stone's work I've heard is recommended, including 'Kamiya Bar', 'Nyala' and his fine duet with Otomo Yoshihide, 'Monogatari--Amino Argot' (which was mentioned on one or two of those lists). Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Re: Screwgun Date: 02 Apr 1998 13:28:37 -0600 It seems to me that when in doubt, he's kidding. I highly recommend you get "Saturation Point" too. I am biased because I was there but I really like this one. It's got a tune on there called "Screwgun" and it rocks! It's worth the $10 by a longshot. Dan At 7:25 PM -0600 4/1/98, William York wrote: >I just got my copy of Tim Berne/Bloodcount's "Discretion" in the mail. >Its really amazing, but anyway it came with a postcard announcing the Marc >Ducret CD, and it said "Buy this CD and my power comes back on - Tim >Berne". Don't tell me Screwgun is having financial problems already- >I had read that they've been doing well. I know it's a sarcastic remark >and that he's like that, but I just don't know how sarcastic. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Re: masada on sale Date: 02 Apr 1998 13:31:31 -0600 My roomates have the Jazz Door Masada disc and it seems to be a bootleg. However, I recommend it. The live Masada is great. I can't wait until that box set comes out with ten discs of live material. Also, I have a feeling that JZ could be pretty upset about the fact that that Jazz Door cd exists. Dan At 8:18 PM -0600 4/1/98, Peter Hollo wrote: >I suspect that the Masada on Jazz Door isn't part of the series, but is >a CD of a live performance they did in I think 1994. Recently I was >listening to some Zorn in Red Eye Records (a superb Sydney records >store) and had a listen to this one. It has a lot of great tracks from >the first 3 Masadas, often in quite long versions, but I thought first I >should get those Masadas 1-3. I'll agree with those other people who >said get Masada 1-3 first. Definitely. But they're all excellent. >I still think Bar Kokhba's even better, but perhaps it's because I'm a >string player, or perhaps because, whilst I think the playing is superb >on the Masadas, free jazz still leaves me a bit cold, whereas the Masada >String Trio is just so totally lush and, oooh what can you say?! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com> Subject: Re: 20 Records Date: 01 Apr 1998 14:47:56 -0500 This as already pass=E9 as we've moved onto disappointments but what the hell. In no particular order, favorites for today are... Uz Jsme Doma 'Hollywood' Holger Czukay/Dr. Walker 'Clash' Gang of Four 'Entertainment!' Faust 'IV' Ivor Darreg 'Detwelvulate!' Negativland 'Helter Stupid' Red Crayola With Art and Language 'Kangeroo?' Jon Hassell/Brian Eno 'Fourth World' The Fall 'Hex Enduction Hour' or 'The Infotainment Scan' Various Artists 'Minatures' Prince Charming 'Psychotropic Heat' Moondog 'Sax Pack for a Sax' Sly and the Family Stone 'There's A Riot Goin' On' Miles Davis 'Agharta' Spike Jones 'Musical Depreciation Revue' Merzbow 'Space Metalizer' Robert Ashley 'Perfect Lives: Private Parts- The Bar' Mothers of Invention 'We're Only In It For the Money' Swamp Dogg 'Fuck The Bomb, Stop the Drugs' Firesign Theatre 'Shoes For Industry' Howlin' Wolf 'Howlin' Wolf' (box set) It kills me that this leaves out Huun-Huur-Tu, Louis Jordan, the Stooges, Professor Longhair, Black Flag, Flipper, Can, the Grifters, My Bloody Valentine, Captain Beefheart, Thelonious Monk, Wire, Yo La Tengo, Sonic Youth, Steve Reich and Hank Williams but I'll settle with this, for now. Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: Top 20 disappointments Date: 02 Apr 1998 14:34:49 -0500 >Subject: Re: Top 20 disappointments >Author: "Chris Barrett" <cbarrett@neaq.org> at SMTP-for-MSSM >Date: 4/2/98 2:11 PM >Last Exit (whatever the first album title was)...After hearing so >much >about it, AND after starting to listen to Zorn's weirder stuff >and King >Crimson's weirder stuff, I absolutely hated this CD. Hmmm...this one almost makes it into my TOP 20! Just goes to show... There's one album that's been totally opaque to me for twenty years; it's by my favorite musician in the world and I go back once in a while to give it another try but, damn it, Braxton's 'Four Orchestras' disappoints me every time! As if the whole affair isn't frustrating enough, there's that one incredibly gorgeous extended, complex chord about halfway through side one; I'd gladly listen to that for two hours! Instead it's surrounded by plinks and scrapes that, I imagine, only the driest serialist could love. Grrr...Maybe the spatial aspects in live performance make a difference... Incidentally, why all the griping over short disc times? Shouldn't the dollar value of a product have to do more with the intrinsic worth of the creation involved rather than peripheral matters like its duration? Wouldn't most folk here rather listen to 20-25 minutes of 'Plexure' or 'Cynical Hysterie Hour' than 75 minutes of (for lack of a better person to dump on) Celine Dion? Do you also feel cheated if a good novel is only 150 pages long instead of being padded to 600? Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lucio <lukcyfer@interlink.com.ar> Subject: 21 albums you must listen to before you die. Date: 02 Apr 1998 16:57:51 -0300 Hi, I think nobody should die before listening to the following albums. So if any of you is planning to commit suicide, please get these records first. 1- CHECK YOUR HEAD- Beastie Boys 2- NAKED CITY- Naked City 3- DISCO VOLANTE- Mr.Bungle 4- ANGEL DUST- Faith No More 5- GARDEN- Ikue Mori 6- FILMWORKS 86-90- John Zorn 7- KULMA- Panasonic 8- THE POD- Ween 9- MR.BUNGLE- Mr.Bungle 10- EXECUTION GROUND- Painkiller 11- LED ZEPPELIN II- Led Zeppelin 12- WHITE ALBUM- The Beatles 13- PORTISHEAD- Portishead 14- OK COMPUTER- Radiohead 15- SELECTED AMBIENT WORKS II- Aphex Twin 16- SONGS OF A DEAD DREAMER- DJ Spooky 17- AENIMA- Tool 18- SOUL DISCHARGE '99- Boredoms 19- LISTEN WITHOUT PREJUDICE- George Michael 20- HARD NORMAL DADDY- Squarepusher 21- BAR KOKHBA- John Zorn - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Top 20 disappointments Date: 02 Apr 1998 15:02:31 -0500 >>>>> "brian" == brian olewnick <brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu> writes: brian> Incidentally, why all the griping over short disc brian> times? Shouldn't the dollar value of a product have to do brian> more with the intrinsic worth of the creation involved brian> rather than peripheral matters like its duration? Wouldn't brian> most folk here rather listen to 20-25 minutes of 'Plexure' brian> or 'Cynical Hysterie Hour' than 75 minutes of (for lack of brian> a better person to dump on) Celine Dion? Do you also feel brian> cheated if a good novel is only 150 pages long instead of brian> being padded to 600? Absolutely! This morning on my way to work (when I usually get to listen to about half a CD) I played Threadgill's Carry the Day. Wonderful album, made me want to exchange it with Makin a Move (the Very Very Circus album) on my essential list. And yet, I got to hear the whole thing, all 37 minutes. Frankly, I'd be exhausted after 75 minutes of Plexure. It's perfect the way it is. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: 20 Records Date: 02 Apr 1998 12:40:27 -0800 On Wed, 01 Apr 1998 14:47:56 -0500 Perfect Sound Forever wrote: > > This as already passΘ as we've moved onto disappointments but what the > hell. In no particular order, favorites for today are... > > Uz Jsme Doma 'Hollywood' > Holger Czukay/Dr. Walker 'Clash' > Gang of Four 'Entertainment!' > Faust 'IV' > Ivor Darreg 'Detwelvulate!' > Negativland 'Helter Stupid' > Red Crayola With Art and Language 'Kangeroo?' > Jon Hassell/Brian Eno 'Fourth World' > The Fall 'Hex Enduction Hour' or 'The Infotainment Scan' > Various Artists 'Minatures' > Prince Charming 'Psychotropic Heat' > Moondog 'Sax Pack for a Sax' > Sly and the Family Stone 'There's A Riot Goin' On' > Miles Davis 'Agharta' > Spike Jones 'Musical Depreciation Revue' > Merzbow 'Space Metalizer' > Robert Ashley 'Perfect Lives: Private Parts- The Bar' ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ What do you think of the CD version? I was very disappointed that Bob redid THE BAR for the CD box. I remember opening the box frantically, knowing that I would not have to fear for my vinyl to wear out... and... DARN! It was not the same :-(. The version on LP is, I think, much better (it rocks!). > Mothers of Invention 'We're Only In It For the Money' > Swamp Dogg 'Fuck The Bomb, Stop the Drugs' > Firesign Theatre 'Shoes For Industry' > Howlin' Wolf 'Howlin' Wolf' (box set) > > It kills me that this leaves out Huun-Huur-Tu, Louis Jordan, the > Stooges, Professor Longhair, Black Flag, Flipper, Can, the Grifters, My > Bloody Valentine, Captain Beefheart, Thelonious Monk, Wire, Yo La Tengo, > Sonic Youth, Steve Reich and Hank Williams but I'll settle with this, > for now. > > Jason > -- > Perfect Sound Forever > online music magazine > perfect-sound@furious.com > http://www.furious.com/perfect > > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Zorn <gking@win.bright.net> Subject: Disappointments Date: 02 Apr 1998 14:57:38 -0800 As far as dissappointments in Zorn's work i only have a couple.. First is Leng T'che, which is my least favorite Naked City...i listen to it occassionally but it usually just doesn't do anything for me. Second is Redbird. I enjoy Dark River, but Redbird itself still just sounds like the same few chords played over and over again for 40+ minutes and it gets quite annoying. other than those two i have enjoyed pretty much every other zorn album i have heard. -matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Top 20 disappointments Date: 02 Apr 1998 13:04:39 -0800 I concur, an excellent topic, especially once the debate starts over the same items on the two different kinds of lists: Marc Ribot - Rootless Cosmopolitans; I think he's a great musician on other people's records, but a lousy band leader making bad pieces of music. Don Byron - Bug Music; The critics raved about this one last year, and there's a lot of good music playing on it. But I question the whole premise of recreating old recordings in the contet of a living music, jazz. We already have Wynton Marsalis as a curator of dead things, we don't need another. Bahia Black - Ritual Beating System; Another Laswell dud. I've really tried to give his records generous listenings, but I have come to the conclusion that while his musicianship and taste are limited, his pretentiousness is not. Gavin Bryars - Jesus Blood; Repetition, with only the most superficial variation, does not music make. I'd rather listen to a recording of Czerny exercises. Glass - Heroes Symphony; He can either be brilliant or awful, this one is awful. Glenn Branca Symphonies; At best these are interesting studies, if they were maybe a few minutes long. Like Bryars, it's one thing to have an idea, another to develop it. Alvin Curran - Animal Behviour; I have several excellent recordings of his, and was excited about this one, only to find it contained inferior versions of music he had already done. Steve Lacy - Itinerary; One of my personal gods with a big band record?! Turned up to be the stiffest thing I'd ever heard him do. Cecil Taylor - In Flouresence; Another god. I had just seen Gregg Bendian with Derek Bailey and Robert Dick when this CD came out, and I jumped on it. Their conceptions never work together. Mahler Symphony #1, Dohnanyi and Cleveland Symphony; One of my favorite pieces by a favorite composer, recorded by maybe the finest American orchestra. The results were pallid. That's 10, I guess, which is good, fewer, far fewer than favorites . . . or maybe I've thankfully forgotten a lot more disappointments. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Top 20 disappointments Date: 02 Apr 1998 15:20:33 -0600 (CST) On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, George Grella wrote: > Gavin Bryars - Jesus Blood; Repetition, with only the most superficial > variation, does not music make. I'd rather listen to a recording of > Czerny exercises. I disagree on this (though I do prefer the Obscure recording to the recent one with the pointless and distracting added vocal). Of course repetition does not necessarily make music -- it's the variations that do (and I can't see calling the subtle changes in this piece "superficial"). > Alvin Curran - Animal Behviour; I have several excellent recordings of > his, and was excited about this one, only to find it contained inferior > versions of music he had already done. I don't find that it resembles his earlier work much. OTOH, I'm rarely inspired to listen to it. Re: the Branca tracks: there's now a compilation CD that may be more to your liking. His recordings don't do much for me, but being there at the performance/recording of Symphony #3 was the closest I've ever been to achieving ecstacy within a jet turbine. I guess my top disappointments would be Mystic Fugu Orchestra's "Zohar" (I've learned to keep a safe distance from Eye's work, even his Naked City tracks) and Frank Zappa's "Thing Fish" (where the labored faux-ethnic imitations make it difficult to hear the music). - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Boock <m.boock@csu-e.csuohio.edu> Subject: 20 Records Date: 02 Apr 1998 16:22:30 -0500 Before this subject becomes too passe, without looking at my collection, in no particular order... King Crimson - Lark's Tongue in Aspic Fairport Convention - Unhalfbricking Kate Bush - The Dreaming John Zorn - Bar Kokhba Helmet - Meantime Rickie Lee Jones - s/t Tom Waits - Rain Dogs The Beatles - White Album Genesis - Lamb Lies Down on Broadway Cherry/Haden/Blackwell/Redmon - Old and New Dreams Van Morrison - Astral Weeks Pere Ubu - Modern Dance David Thomas - Monster Walks Winter Lake Laurie Anderson - Big Science Brian Eno - Another Green World Al Green - I'm Still in Love with You Material - Memory Serves Stevie Wonder - Innervisions Velvet Underground and Nico - s/t (1st album) Pretenders - s/t (1st album) Roxy Music - s/t (1st album) Randy Newman - Sail Away - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tag Yr It <TagYrIt@aol.com> Subject: Re: top 20 Date: 02 Apr 1998 16:45:22 EST I haven't thought about my list yet, but I do think I'll get around to it. This is really sounding like and a good exercise for some insight into the people on the list, and ourselves.....in the meantime, would anyone care to speculate on what it is that is common to our lists that brings us all hovering around Zorn? Just a thought....like we need another one to wrack our brains over lately..... Dale. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: Top 20 disappointments Date: 02 Apr 1998 16:33:14 -0500 ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ george grella wrote: >Gavin Bryars - Jesus Blood; Repetition, with only the most superficial >variation, does not music make. I'd rather listen to a recording of >Czerny exercises. Don't know if it would make much difference (or if you're already doing so), but judgment should optimally be made on the original Obscure version, not the somewhat awkward Point release with, IMHO, the unnecessary introduction of Tom Waits into the proceedings. >Glenn Branca Symphonies; At best these are interesting studies, if they >were maybe a few minutes long. Like Bryars, it's one thing to have an >idea, another to develop it. As one who likes' em plenty, I can only say: hear it live. Regarding "idea" pieces, this is perhaps an area where non-musician listeners (like myself) might have an advantage, where development or lack thereof may be less of an issue. Maybe it becomes easier to consider a piece as an 'art object' rather than as a specifically musical work. For example, perhaps the ultimate relatively recent idea piece (and one that could've made my Top 20 list) is Alvin Lucier's 'I Am Sitting In A Room'. I easily sit tranfixed, listening to it unfold--a non-musical process that, incredibly, produces music! Wonderful! This 'setting in motion' type of composition (and I think 'Jesus' Blood' qualifies, as well as Eno's 'Discreet Music' and progeny) has great inherent fascination for me. George, you cited Carl Stone's 'Mom's' as a favorite, I think. Isn't 'Shing Kee' (among others) somewhat comparable to Bryers' piece? I find both stunningly and equally gorgeous. My 2 cents, anyway. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Charles Gillett" <gill0042@tc.umn.edu> Subject: Re: masada on sale Date: 02 Apr 1998 16:13:47 +0000 On Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:47:07 -0600, Rusty Crump wrote, > >CD Universe has all "Masada" on sale for $15.97. is it > >considered to be a good price? if i don`t have any of "masada", > >except the one that was released on "jazz door", and i can buy only > >2-3 CDs which one should i pick up? > > FOUR. Abso-rootie-tootie-tootly. And on Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:01:32 -0600, Rusty Crump wrote: > 15. Masada - 4. > (For "Hobah" and no other reason.) For the sake of the CD Universe buyer whose name I've lost, the CD Rusty refers to is actually 5/Hei, not 4/Dalet. Dalet is good, but for an introduction you might want more than 18 minutes of music. I'm not sure which one I would recommend...1/Alef hooked me but good, and I've listened to 8/Het a lot recently. I'm not up to making a best-20 list. I've only got about 300 CDs, anyway. :-P -- Charles - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chad edwards <chadhead@rocketmail.com> Subject: Chad's 20 Date: 02 Apr 1998 11:38:42 -0800 (PST) This list is very unstable, because it occasionaly blows up into something quite different. However there are some that will always remain my favorite. The Chad happys in no particular order: John Zorn-----Filmworks 1 CamperVanBeetoven-----Key Lime Pie Charles Mingus-----Three or Four Shades of Blue Tom Waits-----Bone Machine Naked City-----Radio Mr. Bungle-----Disco Volante Faith no More-----King for a Day Slayer-----Reign in Blood Captain Beefheart-----Trout Mask Replica Tom Waits-----Raindogs Ween-----The Pod Beatles-----White Album Extreme Noise Terror-----Peel Sessions De La Soul-----3 feet High and Rising Montiverdi-----L'Orfeo Miles Davis-----Bitches Brew Old and in the Way-----Old and in the Way Frank Zappa-----Weasles Eat my Flesh Butthole Surfers-----Widow Maker The Doors-----Morrison Hotel Wow. It looks kinda silly now that I look at it. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Top 20 disappointments Date: 02 Apr 1998 17:16:39 -0500 >>>>> "brian" == brian olewnick <brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu> writes: >> Gavin Bryars - Jesus Blood; Repetition, with only the most >> superficial variation, does not music make. I'd rather listen >> to a recording of Czerny exercises. brian> Don't know if it would make much difference (or if brian> you're already doing so), but judgment should optimally be brian> made on the original Obscure version, not the somewhat brian> awkward Point release with, IMHO, the unnecessary brian> introduction of Tom Waits into the proceedings. I have to jump in here for the Point version (I checked, and I did include it in my original list). There's more variation in the music (the various horn sections, etc.), and I think having Waits come in at the end was a stroke of genius, one of the few singers who *could* sing along with the tramp. I had the Obscure version since way back when, and so the piece was already familiar when the Point version came out, and hearing Waits was a magnificent coda to a recording which was already an old friend. Perhaps if I was approaching this work for the first time I'd feel differently. brian> Regarding "idea" pieces, this is perhaps an area where brian> non-musician listeners (like myself) might have an brian> advantage, where development or lack thereof may be less of brian> an issue. Maybe it becomes easier to consider a piece as an brian> 'art object' rather than as a specifically musical brian> work. For example, perhaps the ultimate relatively recent brian> idea piece (and one that could've made my Top 20 list) is brian> Alvin Lucier's 'I Am Sitting In A Room'. I easily sit brian> tranfixed, listening to it unfold--a non-musical process brian> that, incredibly, produces music! Wonderful! This 'setting brian> in motion' type of composition (and I think 'Jesus' Blood' brian> qualifies, as well as Eno's 'Discreet Music' and progeny) brian> has great inherent fascination for me. Some works of music increase in meaning when I know some story that accompanies them. Much of Lucier's work is like this, although I Am Sitting is unique in that the idea is presented as part of the piece, rather than accompaniment in the form of liner notes. Stockhausen's intuitive music is related as well. Sometimes I think my distance to some of, say, Braxton's music is because I don't know any stories (and the strange pictures he calls 'scores' don't help ;-). My appreciation of Butch Morris also increased after I started reading more about conduction. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Twenty Part 2 Date: 02 Apr 1998 22:36:00 UT Oh shit! I forgot a few. Can - Ege Bamyasi/Soon Over Babaluma/Future Days Eno/Byrne - My Life in the Bush of Ghosts Beatles - White Album Jesus Lizard - Goat Negativland - Big 10-8 Place - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Musiq Concrete; 3rd Stream Date: 02 Apr 1998 22:40:10 UT I second that whole-heartedly. I routinely put the title track on mix tapes for friends and they're like, That's SO wierd, but sorta funky... Plus, the development of two of the other pieces are excellent experiments in minimalism, but different than the usual definition. BTW, one of my favorite Musique Concrete pieces of all time is Revolution #9 by the Beatles. I love listening to Beatles A-Z weekends, just so I can hear this piece come over the radio, preceeded by the usual remarks about how this is routinely voted the LEAST favorite Beatles song by Beatles fans. I love it. Peter ____________________Reply Separator____________________ Author: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com May I suggest a great electronic record by a Composer, capital "C," with a more pop sensibility than you'll find in the pages of Computer Music Journal; the record is "Mom's" on New Albion, the Composer is Carl Stone. It's the best of all worlds; ambient, cut-ups, constructed tension and release; rhythms. The most listenable electronic music I know. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re: Miller / Noyes / Date: 02 Apr 1998 18:01:16 -0500 Chris Genzel wrote: > > Tidbit about Mark Miller: he is married to a country singer in San Francisco; > > they have a band together that plays lots of weddings [it was a couple years > > ago]. > > So it seems like his musically more adventurous days are gone ... is he still > throwing firecrackers into the audience? :) I remember an early line-up of Arto's Ambitous Lovers playing at Soundscape, during a blinding snowstorm. Miller was kind enough to pour lighter fluid on the floor, and ignite it. Thus providing heat for the handful of listeners who made it to the show. > > > The same question goes for Charles K. Noyes -- I love his appearance on > > > "Memory Serves" and I also have "Improvised Music New York 1981". > > > > > > Kind regards, > > > - Chris. > > C'mon, there must be something you know about Miller and Noyes, or at least > a record you could recommend. I've been wracking my tiny little mind, trying to come up with some recordings....it's tough...heres what I remember Charles K Noyes had an LP called "The World And The Raw People" It might have been on Rift or MetaLanguage. There was the "Invite The Spirit" Double LP on OAO w/Noyes, Kaiser, and Sang won Park.(DONT buy the CD copy! it's a Karakos rip-off, mastered from a scratched LP) Mark Miller played drums on Elliot Sharp's ISM which has been reissued so many times on so many different labels it's hard to keep track of them all. Laswell, Olu Dara, and Art Baron also appear on this. Miller and Noyes were also in a thrash/punk trio called Toy Killers, Miller was in the Golden Palomino's for about 3 seconds(Playing Bass),and was 1/3 of JZ's "Impressions of Africa" trio, and of course, he ran Studio Henry, one of the best loft/performance spaces around NY. CK Noyes has done a lot of playing with Henry Kaiser(including a trio performance w/Sonny Sharrock) Thats about all I can come up with. Rich - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rusty Crump <dmcrump@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu> Subject: Oh shit! (Was: Re: masada on sale) Date: 02 Apr 1998 16:58:35 -0600 >On Wed, 1 Apr 1998 08:47:07 -0600, Rusty Crump wrote, >> >CD Universe has all "Masada" on sale for $15.97. is it >> >considered to be a good price? if i don`t have any of "masada", >> >except the one that was released on "jazz door", and i can buy only >> >2-3 CDs which one should i pick up? >> >> FOUR. Abso-rootie-tootie-tootly. > >And on Thu, 2 Apr 1998 09:01:32 -0600, Rusty Crump wrote: >> 15. Masada - 4. >> (For "Hobah" and no other reason.) > > For the sake of the CD Universe buyer whose name I've lost, the >CD Rusty refers to is actually 5/Hei, not 4/Dalet. Dalet is good, >but for an introduction you might want more than 18 minutes of >music. I'm not sure which one I would recommend...1/Alef hooked >me but good, and I've listened to 8/Het a lot recently. > > I'm not up to making a best-20 list. I've only got about 300 CDs, >anyway. :-P > > >-- Charles > > >- Oh, shit! Got my Masadas mixed up! My bad! Damn, how embarrassing! Rusty Crump - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@uvic.ca> Subject: bryars Date: 02 Apr 1998 14:58:56 -0800 --------------531724DE64E70034C52BB288 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit G. Grella wrote: >Gavin Bryars - Jesus Blood; Repetition, with only the most superficial >variation, does not music make. Are you completely writing off minimalism here, or just this particular piece? Reich, Riley, Young, Andriessen, Glass? Gamelon (and much non-western music)? What about Sinking of the Titanic (Bryars) which I've noticed on a few top 20s? What about the Bryars album (the name escapes me) with Alaric (sp?) featuring, inter alia, Evan Parker and Bill Frisell - this is one of my favorites. Though I must admit these styles of music have always been much more effective for me hearing them live in concert ... cappyd --------------531724DE64E70034C52BB288 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML> G. Grella wrote: <P>>Gavin Bryars - Jesus Blood; <I>Repetition</I>, <I>with only the most superficial</I> <BR><I>>variation, does not music make.</I> <P>Are you completely writing off minimalism here, or just this particular piece? Reich, Riley, Young, Andriessen, Glass? Gamelon (and much non-western music)? What about Sinking of the Titanic (Bryars) which I've noticed on a few top 20s? What about the Bryars album (the name escapes me) with Alaric (sp?) featuring, inter alia, Evan Parker and Bill Frisell - this is one of my favorites. <P>Though I must admit these styles of music have always been much more effective for me hearing them live in concert ... <P>cappyd</HTML> --------------531724DE64E70034C52BB288-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Top 20 disappointments Date: 02 Apr 1998 14:58:21 -0800 Brian Olewnick writes: > Regarding "idea" pieces, this is perhaps an area where non-musician > listeners (like myself) might have an advantage, where development or > lack thereof may be less of an issue. Maybe it becomes easier to > consider a piece as an 'art object' rather than as a specifically > musical work. For example, perhaps the ultimate relatively recent idea > piece (and one that could've made my Top 20 list) is Alvin Lucier's 'I > Am Sitting In A Room'. I easily sit tranfixed, listening to it > unfold--a non-musical process that, incredibly, produces music! > Wonderful! This 'setting in motion' type of composition (and I think > 'Jesus' Blood' qualifies, as well as Eno's 'Discreet Music' and > progeny) has great inherent fascination for me. > > George, you cited Carl Stone's 'Mom's' as a favorite, I think. Isn't > 'Shing Kee' (among others) somewhat comparable to Bryers' piece? I > find both stunningly and equally gorgeous. > "I am sitting in a room " is one of the great post-war composition, IMO. I disagree that it is a non-musical process, however; the point of the piece, like all Lucier's work, is to make music. Most pieces, the listener hears the end result and has no clue to the process, while in this one you know the process, hear the process work, and hear the end result, a rare combination, and even rarer still is that the music sounds good! Along with the Lovely Music CD, I've heard another recording which was Lucier's first take, in a different room. Interesting for contrast, but the room was harsher in it's acoustic, the transformations not as pleasant or harmonically rich. Stone's and Bryar's work, as discussed, is comparable in the most general sense, I agree, but I think there is an important difference in their conception that makes and breaks it for me. The Stone pieces begin a certain way and transform into something altogether different; they have a powerful structure that allows for complex events inside, events that are part of the process. Bryar's piece gives away it's hand immediately which I think is its mistake; the sample is the core, and while the backgrounds have their gradual transformations, there's the sample, which tires quickly. There's no mystery, no tension, no sense that the unexpected ever happens. What I would compare the Bryar's to, as a lesson in how to do it right, is Passacaglia form, where the ground tune [read sample for Bryar's] is itself transformed through modulation and variation, all the while continuing in other voices [the most general description, before people want to start picking nits]. I don't hear anything substantially varied in "Jesus Blood." gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Musiq Concrete; 3rd Stream Date: 02 Apr 1998 17:55:46 -0500 >>>>> "peter" == peter risser <peter_risser@cinfin.com> writes: peter> I second that whole-heartedly. I routinely put the title peter> track on mix tapes for friends and they're like, That's SO peter> wierd, but sorta funky... Plus, the development of two of peter> the other pieces are excellent experiments in minimalism, peter> but different than the usual definition. The funky track has always somehow reminded me of the Remain in Light Talking Heads album. It sounds like one of the guitar solos, run through a shredder and pasted back together. peter> BTW, one of my favorite Musique Concrete pieces of all time peter> is Revolution #9 by the Beatles. I love listening to peter> Beatles A-Z weekends, just so I can hear this piece come peter> over the radio, preceeded by the usual remarks about how peter> this is routinely voted the LEAST favorite Beatles song by peter> Beatles fans. I love it. Ditto. I've got this on a mix tape somewhere, and it always surprises me when it comes up. Very advanced and forward looking, with a clearer shape than works two decades newer and put together by people with better academic credentials. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Allen Gittelson" <Allen.Gittelson@eng.efi.com> Subject: top 20 (or so) list Date: 02 Apr 1998 15:25:14 -0800 I long held high regard for the "desert island", "Top x", etc type of favorites lists. I can't seem to locate the last one that I compiled, but this is fairly accurate. I may have left some critical favorites out of this list as the sinus problem I have at the moment is affecting my thinking and listening. In no particular order: Trout Mask Replica - Captain Beefheart & His Magic Band The Dark Side of the Moon - Pink Floyd Discipline - King Crimson In the Court of the Crimson King - King Crimson The Modern Dance - Pere Ubu Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band - The Beatles The Beatles (a.k.a. The White Album) - The Beatles A Big 10-8 Place - Negativland Naked City - Naked City Duck Stab (CD w/Goosebumps) - The Residents Eskimo - The Residents Indeterminacy - John Cage We're Only in it for the Money (Original Vinyl or CD reissue w/original drums and bass) - Frank Zappa Lumpy Gravy - Frank Zappa The Velvet Underground & Nico - The Velvet Underground & Nico Trans Europe Express - Kraftwerk Check Your Head - The Beastie Boys Paul's Boutique - The Beastie Boys Electric Ladyland - Jimi Hendrix Laurie Anderson - Poeme Electronique - Edgard Varese Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegetables - Dead Kennedys Strategies Against Architechture - Einsturzende Neubauten Entertainment! - The Gang of Four Power, Corruption, & Lies - New Order The Wall - Pink Floyd Music with Sound - The Tape Beatles Another Green World - Brian Eno Twang Bar King - Adrian Belew Lone Rhino - Adrian Belew Hexed - Gem I have some good ideas of albums I should listen to from all the posts about this topic. Good idea. Ciao, Allen Gittelson email to: allen.gittelson@eng.efi.com P.S. I also agree with Pete Risser about GANRYU ISLAND: Michihiro Sato and John Zorn. Great album. I'd love to see it available, as the only copy I've ever seen is the same one Pete has. It does tend to weed out the listening audience. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re[2]: Carl Stone's Mom Date: 02 Apr 1998 23:25:42 UT <<The funky track has always somehow reminded me of the Remain in Light Talking Heads album. It sounds like one of the guitar solos, run through a shredder and pasted back together. >> Actually, my guess is that it's a Zydeco tune. Anyone know who done it before Carl Stone got ahold of it? Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Top 20 Report Date: 02 Apr 1998 23:20:09 UT Yeah, I did it. Here's the stats so far: Top Artists by number of mentions over 5: Faith No More - 5 Genesis - 5 Jimi Hendrix - 5 Sonic Youth - 5 Bill Frisell - 6 Boredoms - 6 Art Ensemble of Chicago - 6 Glenn Branca - 6 Masada - 6 Sonny Sharrock - 6 Sun Ra - 6 Thelonius Monk - 7 Iannis Xenakis - 7 Eric Dolphy - 7 John Cage - 7 Can - 7 Cecil Taylor - 7 Mr. Bungle - 7 Anthony Braxton - 8 Philip Glass - 8 Steve Reich - 9 Derek Bailey - 8 + 1 combo Brian Eno - 9 Stravinsky - 10 Albert Ayler - 11 Captain Beefheart - 11 King Crimson - 12 Tom Waits - 14 Beatles - 15 Charles Mingus - 15 Frank Zappa - 20 Naked City - 25 Ornette Coleman - 26 John Coltrane - 31 John Zorn (including Bar Kokhba, but NOT Naked City or Masada) - 32 + 3 in combos Miles Davis - 42 Just thought you'd like to know. Keep turnin' 'em in and I'll post a list later containing the top 20 albums. Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gabriel Lichtmann <licht@bancaria.com.ar> Subject: 20 records Date: 15 Feb 1998 01:57:52 -0300 Well, here's my list, I know I'll regret most of it tomorrow, but anyway: (in no particular order) Faith No More "Angel Dust" Sonic Youth "Daydream Nation" Neil Young "Ragged Glory" Miles Davis "Kind Of Blue" John Zorn "Bar Kokhba" Caetano Veloso "Circulado Ao Vivo" The Beatles "The White Album" Pixies "Surfer Rosa" John Zorn "Naked City" Prince "Sign O' The Times" Prince "Purple Rain" Velvet Underground & Nico "Peel Slowly and See" (boxed set) The Smiths "Louder than bommbs" John Coltrane "A Love Supreme" Pink Floyd "The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn" Joy Division "Substance" (actually anything, but I'll go for this one) Don Cornelio y La Zona "idem" (I know the other argentinian guys chose L.A. Spinetta for his musicality reasons, but this is what poetry sounds like to me) Roni Size/Reprazent "New Forms" Aphex Twin "SAW vol2" V.A "Isolationism" Mmm, too "rock", I think I got a bit nostalgic. I'm forgetting many records, but this I what I would keep if I had to sell my records collection, this are not my favorite records. Bye. P.D: If the other argentinian guys want to discuss my choice of Don Cornelio over Spinetta I think we should do it outside the list. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joshua A Miller <umillj08@mcl.ucsb.edu> Subject: twentysomething Date: 02 Apr 1998 15:50:43 -0800 (PST) okay, okay, me too. this will be missing a lot (obviously) john cale- paris 1919 glenn branca symphonies 8&10 james chance/contortions- buy the contortions bill frisell- where in the world (let's say for now...) swell maps- jane from occupied europe the raincoats- the raincoats (!!!) ornette coleman- free jazz fred frith- speechless 8-eyed spy- 8-eyed spy charles mingus- the black saint and the sinner lady god is my co-pilot- speed yr trip tom waits- raindogs the fall- wonderfull and frightening world of... henry threadgill- too much sugar for a dime sonic youth- daydream nation sun ra- space is the place velvet undergound- velvet underground and nico john zorn- naked city vaselines- the way of the vaselines half japanese- greatest hits eugene chadbourne- corpses of foreign war (first to come to mind)... minutemen- double nickels on the dime pere ubu- dub housing wire- pink flag elvis costello- armed forces so i went over...everybody else did too! only twenty. hmph. what a nightmare! josh - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: 20 records Date: 02 Apr 1998 15:53:59 -0800 On Sun, 15 Feb 1998 01:57:52 -0300 Gabriel Lichtmann wrote: > > Well, here's my list, I know I'll regret most of it tomorrow, but anyway: > (in no particular order) > > Faith No More "Angel Dust" > Sonic Youth "Daydream Nation" > Neil Young "Ragged Glory" > Miles Davis "Kind Of Blue" > John Zorn "Bar Kokhba" > Caetano Veloso "Circulado Ao Vivo" > The Beatles "The White Album" > Pixies "Surfer Rosa" > John Zorn "Naked City" > Prince "Sign O' The Times" > Prince "Purple Rain" > Velvet Underground & Nico "Peel Slowly and See" (boxed set) > The Smiths "Louder than bommbs" Darn! I forgot The Smiths... Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Top 23 Albums Date: 02 Apr 1998 23:51:04 UT You asked for it: First, the runners up: 3 - Beach Boys - Pet Sounds 3 - Eno/Byrne - My Life in the Bush of Ghosts 3 - Derek Bailey - Aida 3 - Don Caballero - II 3 - Faith No More - King for a Day 3 - Genesis - Lamb Lies Down on Broadway 3 - John Zorn - Filmworks 1986-1990 3 - King Crimson - Larks' Tongues in Aspic 3 - Miles Davis - Bitches' Brew 3 - Miles Davis - On the Corner 3 - Miles Davis - Pangaea 3 - Ornette Coleman - Free Jazz 3 - Ornette Coleman - The Shape of Jazz to Come 3 - Peter Thomas - Raumpatrouille 3 - Philip Glass - Einstein on the Beach 3 - Sonic Youth - Daydream Nation 3 - Tom Waits - Swordfishtrombones 3 - Frank Zappa - The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life 3 - Frank Zappa - Weasels Ripped My Flesh Now the top 23: 4 - Steve Reich - Music for 18 Musicians 4 - King Crimson - Red 4 - Brian Eno - Another Green World 4 - Charles Mingus - Presents Charles Mingus 4 - Naked City - Radio 4 - Stravinsky's Petrouchka 4 - Tom Waits - Frank's Wild Years 4 - Tom Waits - Rain Dogs 4 - Iannis Xenakis - La Legende D'Eer Heading into classics territory: 5 - Captain Beefheart - Trout Mask Replica 5 - John Zorn - Spy vs Spy 5 - Sonny Sharrock - Ask the Ages 6 - Beatles - White Album 6 - Naked City - Torture Garden Seminal Recordings?: 7 - Albert Ayler - Spiritual Unity 7 - Eric Dolphy - Out to Lunch 7 - John Coltrane - A Love Supreme 7 - John Zorn - Bar Kokhba 7 - Mr. Bungle - Disco Volante 7 - Stravinsky's Rite of Spring 9 - Ornette Coleman - Beauty Is a Rare Thing 10 - Naked City - s/t 12 - Miles Davis - Kind of Blue Just thought you'd like to know Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #294 Date: 02 Apr 1998 16:09:51 -0800 Cappy D'Angelo writes: > Are you completely writing off minimalism here, or just this particular > piece? Reich, Riley, Young, Andriessen, Glass? Gamelon (and much > non-western music)? What about Sinking of the Titanic (Bryars) which > I've noticed on a few top 20s? What about the Bryars album (the name > escapes me) with Alaric (sp?) featuring, inter alia, Evan Parker and > Bill Frisell - this is one of my favorites. > Not in any way - this response surprises me. I have many CDs by the composers you mention in my collection, to begin with, and their music, as Minimalism, does a lot more than the Bryar's piece does. Take some or Reich's most rigorous work for example, like "It's Gonna Rain," or "Drumming." The music develops on an elemental level, it transforms from one thing to another. Like any good composer, he implicitly understands the need for modulation, especially when his "language" is repetition. In the tape piece, he chooses only one element to modulate, the playback of the loop, but he still modulates it. "Jesus Blood" doesn't modulate. It doesn't vary key, tempo, rhythm or mode from how it begins to any other appreciably different state. Some instruments come in, the voice keeps going, some more instruments come in, the voice keeps going. I wouldn't even call this Minimalism, which implys that the composer is using a specific technique but it still writing a piece of music that does something. Brys uses no technique other than plain repetition and less than cursory arranging. And with a piece the length of a Romantic era symphony, that is just deadly, whether or not Tom Wairs makes a cameo in the "coda." It's not that I don't understand the appeal of the record, I do, and if people enjoy it, good for them. But it's not for me. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: e# (was 20 records) Date: 02 Apr 1998 18:41:02 -0500 > 16) Elliott Sharp Larynx Brian - I remember you asking a while back for some recent e# recs... If you really liked LARYNX (I did too) you should check out his new Orchestra Carbon disc called RHEO-UMBRA. It's a brand spanking new hand-packaged, limited edition (only 300) set on e#'s zOaR label. It's a pretty similar concept to LARYNX (e# w/Carbon + string quartet + 2 bass clarinets playing one piece split into two parts with the blocky structure of LARYNX). Also on zOaR (another hand-packaged limited edition set) is SPRING & NEAP which is an AMAZING piece written and conducted by e#. It's one composition for 2 kotos, 2 shamisen, harp, piano, 2 violins, 2 cellos, 2 contrabasses & 4 percussionists (i could be leaving something out) that is a very dissonant and dynamic build-up/release of tension piece. I can very easily compare it to Xenakis. Other recent-ish e# discs of note are INTERFERENCE (w/Carbon, instrumental, very different from all other Carbon I've heard) and his solo fretless guitar disc SFERICS. I really love all of these discs. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Doug McKay <mckay003@maroon.tc.umn.edu> Subject: Trout Mask Replica Date: 02 Apr 1998 18:23:34 -0600 (CST) TROUT MASK REPLICA shows up on a lot of lists. I haven't heard it, but I had the sampler ZAPPED as kid and it had one or two Beefheart on it. Now I'm thinking this is a good time to finally buy it. Doug McKay In Minnesota - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alistair Poore <a.poore@unsw.edu.au> Subject: Re: Top 20 Date: 03 Apr 1998 11:53:12 +1000 Not quite 20, but a pretty good summary of my tastes at the moment. George Adams/Don Pullen Quartet - City gates Bajourou - Big string theory Tim Berne's Bloodcount - Unwound Ornette Coleman - Change of the century Eric Dolphy Eric Dolphy - At the Five Spot, Vol. 1 Bob Dylan - Blood on the tracks Marty Ehrlich's Darkwoods Ensemble - Just before the dawn Donald Harrison - Indian blues Keith Jarrett - At the Blue Note. The complete recordings Kronos Quartet - Pieces of Africa Taj Mahal - Giant steps/De ole folks at home Myra Melford Extended Ensemble - Even the sounds shine David Murray - Spirituals Bobby Previte - Too close to the pole Don Pullen and the Afro-Brazilian Connection - Ode to life Horace Tapscott - The dark tree. Vol. 1 Ali Farke Toure & Ry Cooder - Talking Timbuktu McCoy Tyner - The real McCoy Loudon Wainwright III - History Tom Waits - Rain dogs Randy Weston - The spirits of our ancestors World Saxophone Quartet - Metamorphosis John Zorn - Bar Khokhba -- Alistair G. B. Poore Email: a.poore@unsw.edu.au - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com> Subject: Carl Stone Date: 01 Apr 1998 20:52:03 -0500 Wouldn't have thought he would come up on this list but my hat's off to the people that have been mentioning him recently. Anyone else see his recent Kitchen performance? He did this wild, swirling psychedelic piece called 'Guelaguetza' (or 'Guelaguetzl'). Jason Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: request Date: 02 Apr 1998 19:50:21 -0500 I'm making a request to hear from Stephen Drury, David Newgarden and David Slusser as to what they would consider their top 20 records. Let's hear 'em guys! -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tyler <fruitypants@biogate.com> Subject: Top 20 o' mine Date: 02 Apr 1998 21:43:18 -0400 Hey all, thought I might as well throw my faves out while I have the chance... Probably a change from regular zorn list material,oh well. Enjoy (or don't). In no order. Sonic Youth-"Goo" The Jesus Lizard-"Goat" Medecine-"The Buried Life" My Bloody Valentine-"Loveless" Naked City-"Torture Garden" Boredoms-"Onanie Bomb Meets the Sex Pistols" Six Finger Satellite-"Severe Exposure" Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds-"Let Love In" Husker Du-"New Day Rising" Girls against Boys-"Cruise Yourself" Didjits-"Full Nelson Reilly" Big Black-"Songs About Fucking" Photek-"Modus Operandi" Jon Spencer Blues Explosion-"Orange" Fishbone-"The Reality of My Surroundings" Parliament-"Tear the Roof Off" Supernova-"Ages 3 and Up" Greyboy Allstars-"A Town Called Earth" Minor Threat-"Complete Discography" Wesley Willis Fiasco-"SpookyDisharmoniousConflictHellride" There. Now the world (part of it at least) knows the inner-most listenings of one Tyler J. fruitypants@biogate.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jack Blanton <jblanton@kent.edu> Subject: top 20 Date: 02 Apr 1998 22:07:35 -0500 My top 20; not necessarily in order, trying to avoid too much repetition in artists, probabally forgetting some, and likely with many mispellings: Sonic Youth-Sister John Zorn-Bar Khokba Dimiti Shostakovitch-String Quartet #8 (all time favorite piece of music; especially the flawless version by the Kronos Quartet) John Coltrane-Live in Seattle Johnny Cash-The American Recordings Kronos Quartet/Terry Rielly-Salome Dances for Peace Ludwig Van Beetoveen-The Complete Symphonies Sebadoh-Bubble and Scrape Naked City-Radio Blue (soundtrack, by L. Preisler) Fugazi-Red Medicine Bela Bartock-Complete String Quartets (Emerson Quartet) Black Flag-Loose Nut Dave Douglass-Parallell Worlds Franz Schubert-Death and the Maden Quartet (Emerson Quartet) Gorecki-String Quartets 1 and 2 (Kronos Quartet) Georges Bizet-Carmen Osvaldo Golijov-The Dreams and Prayers of Isaac the Blind (Kronos Quartet/David Krakauer) Oliver Messiaen-Quartet for the End of Time Masada (Box set; I'm cheating, but they're all so great!) A mixed bag, no? JACK - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "cmurat" <cmurat@rcc.com.AR> Subject: 20 records Date: 03 Apr 1998 00:14:05 -0300 My 20 favorites: Kronos Quartet - White man sleeps / Black Angels Miles Davis - Kind of blue / Bitches Brew / We want Miles Ornette Coleman - Beauty is a rare thing Eric Dolphy - The complete Prestige recording John Coltrane - Live in Japan Keith Jarrett - Koln Concert Joni Mitchell - Mingus Spinetta - Artaud Pescado Rabioso - Pescado 2 Caetano Veloso - Muito Erik Satie - Vexations Arditti String Quartet - Arnold Schoenberg 3 Chamber Music Velvet Underground - Peel slowly and see Curlew - A beautiful western saddle Nick Cave - Murder Ballads Larry Ochs - The secret Magritte Anthony Braxton - Willisau (quartet) 1991 Zeena Parkins - Isabelle Zorn - Frisell - Lewis - News for Lulu Elliott Sharp - Xenocodex Guy Klucevsek - Flying vegetables of the apocalypse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: Stravinsky/Shostakovitch do jazz?? Date: 03 Apr 1998 12:27:49 +1000 (EST) I've seen a couple of people mention these guys in their lists, so I'm hoping someone out here knows more than me... Heard a piece for brass on the radio a while back; it was a jazz-suite by Stravinsky for Shostakovitch (or maybe: the other way around). I think it was the 2nd of 2. Don't know too much about these guys, but like my few Stravinsky records just fine. Can anyone fill me in? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: looking for some info on these albums Date: 03 Apr 1998 12:36:17 +1000 (EST) On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Zorn wrote: > EXPERIMENTAL PERFORMANCE WITH JOHN ZORN: Jojo Takayanagi > > GANRYU ISLAND: Michihiro Sato and John Zorn Both dead-rare, I'd say. Masayuki 'Jojo' Takayanagi was a Japanese guitarist who did work in the vein of prepared guitar and cut-ups under his Action Direct moniker. That stuff is apparently pretty great - the inspiration for Merzbow and Otomo Yoshihide both. I think Otomo studied with him for a time. More info on him in issue 4/2 of the inestimable British mag, Resonance. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: Masayuki Takayanagi Date: 02 Apr 1998 22:21:22 -0500 James Douglas Knox wrote: > > On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Zorn wrote: > > > EXPERIMENTAL PERFORMANCE WITH JOHN ZORN: Jojo Takayanagi > > > > GANRYU ISLAND: Michihiro Sato and John Zorn > > Both dead-rare, I'd say. Masayuki 'Jojo' Takayanagi was a Japanese > guitarist who did work in the vein of prepared guitar and cut-ups under > his Action Direct moniker. That stuff is apparently pretty great - the > inspiration for Merzbow and Otomo Yoshihide both. I think Otomo studied > with him for a time. More info on him in issue 4/2 of the inestimable > British mag, Resonance. Masayuki Takayanagi has a solo prepared table-top guitar disc on the Japanese Jinya label called 'Inanimate Nature' as well as one with his group New Direction called 'Live Independence' (or something like that - this is off hand) with Moto Yoshisawa on bass and a percussionist. The latter is in more of a conventional guitar style (two tracks on the album, split between acoustic and electric guitars). Both are quite good but very different from each other. This is all I've been able to find on CD. Anyone know of any more? I've been dying to hear Zorn's duo LP with him so if anyone who has it is feeling kind enough to offer to make me a tape, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks! While I'm here, can anyone recommend Henry Rollins' spoken word performances? He's coming to perform in my neck of the woods Tuesday night. Not sure if I'll go... -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: more takayanagi Date: 02 Apr 1998 22:27:59 -0500 I just went over to Forced Exposure and found that Takayanagi has another disc I don't have with New Direction called 'The Call In Question' on PSF. I'll be ordering that one soon. Anything else from this guy? -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fate@telepath.com (Jon Mooneyham) Subject: Top 20 at the moment... Date: 02 Apr 1998 22:37:38 -0600 It's pretty entertaining to see everyone's dirty undies (jazzbos, headbangers, industrio-noisehogs, reg'lar rockin' dudes, etc.) - here's mine, right now, in no partic. order... The Birthday Party - Junkyard Throbbing Gristle - 20 Jazz Funk Greats Charles Mingus - Mingus Ah Um Pere Ubu - Dub Housing Tom Waits - Small Change Mothers of Invention - Uncle Meat The Pop Group - Y Rahsaan Roland Kirk - Rip, Rig & Panic/Now Please Don't You Cry, Beautiful Edith Ornette Coleman - The Shape of Jazz to Come Alberta Hunter - Amtrak Blues Captain Beefheart & the Magic Band - Trout Mask Replica Barry Adamson - Moss Side Story Leonard Cohen - The Best of (Vol. 1) Funkadelic - Maggot Brain Al Green - Let's Stay Together Burning Spear - Marcus Garvey/Garvey's Ghost John Oswald - Plexure Mekons - Curse of the Mekons Martin Denny - Afro-Desia & a current fave - Cujo-Adventures in Foam Jeez, pretty testosterone-laden... not enough women. Ehhhh... Yrs, Jon M. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fate@telepath.com (Jon Mooneyham) Subject: Top 20 Egos on Parade Date: 02 Apr 1998 22:44:45 -0600 Hey, I'm as guilty as the next subscriber... BUT: With over a hundred messages from this list in the last 24 hours, I gotta say, there's nothin' like a Biggest/Coolest Dick contest (like this) to get everybody's fingers flyin' over the keyboard... ok, back to lurker mode. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: Top 20 Egos on Parade Date: 02 Apr 1998 20:35:48 -0800 Hey Jon, You can reduce having a passion for music to dickness if you like. As for me, I highly value a bunch of people honoring one of the best things life and creativity have to offer. Music. I love it. And I love seeing what everyone really likes. Keith - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fate@telepath.com (Jon Mooneyham) Subject: make that 21 Date: 02 Apr 1998 22:56:46 -0600 Fuck! I left out the Fall! Grotesque or This Nation's Saving Grace or Hex Enduction Hour or... Jon M. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nils Jacobson <JACOBSON@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu> Subject: 20 Date: 03 Apr 1998 00:21:39 +0100 In the order they sit on the rack: Squarepusher - Feed Me Weird Things Tim Berne's Fractured Fairy Tales Mr. Bungle Naked City William Parker - Testimony Matthew Shipp - Critical Mass Charles Gayle - Touchin on Trane Clusone 3 Ornette Coleman - TSOJTC Ron Miles - My Cruel Heart Arvo Part - Te Deum Miles Davis - Aura Steve Reich - Music for 18 musicians Don Pullen - Evidence of Things Unseen Coltrane - Sun Ship Gateway John Cage - In a Landscape FSOL - Lifeforms Steve Coleman - Curves of Life Rage Against the Machine - Evil Empire - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: My 20 Date: 03 Apr 1998 00:25:09 -0500 This is tough, as everyone's noted. My own list is unabashedly personal and not intended to make a statement as to the overall greatness of the discs listed... some are and some surely aren't... but it's the 20 I really couldn't bear to be without if I were forced to give up all the others. 1. King Crimson - Larks' Tongues in Aspic My top 1 desert island disc. 2. King Crimson - Lizard I'd want to have this along, too. 3. Gordon Haskell - It's Just a Plot to Drive You Crazy A guy with a guitar singing really simple, really catchy songs about everyday things, and apparently getting really drunk along the way (literally, not metaphorically). 4. Miles Davis - Kind of Blue A staple of any jazz collection, with one of my personal drum heroes in the back. 5. Miles Davis - In a Silent Way Something else altogether. 6. John Coltrane - A Love Supreme The most pious, humble, worshipful, powerful music in the jazz canon. 7. Tim Berne - Unwound Couldn't forget Tim, could I? This covers a lot of ground, from chamber music to funk. 8. Derek Bailey - Drop Me Off on 96th My favorite Bailey solo album. "Aida" came close. Both are beautiful. 9. Bobby Previte - Claude's Late Morning Gotta have something by Bobby, and this has a bit of just about everything he does. 10. Ornette Coleman - Beauty Is a Rare Thing Of course, if box sets were ruled out I could get by with "The Shape of Jazz to Come." 11. Power Tools - Strange Meeting My favorite Frisell, stripped down and gnarly, with the tough rhythm section of Gibbs and Jackson. 12. Joseph Haydn - String Quartets Op. 77 & 103 (Festetics Quartet) Haydn's quartets set the standard, and these at the end are gorgeous. 13. Ludwig van Beethoven - Symphony No. 9 (London Classical Players/Norrington) Once I listened to nothing else but this record for a whole week, and understood just how freaked out the audiences of the day must have been, and why it took Brahms so long to write his first symphony. The rendition of the 6th symphony from this same cycle is a close second and would be included if this were a top 25. 14. Jussi Bj=F6rling - Opera Arias 1936-45 (1988 EMI compilation) Vocal beauty defined, for me at least. "Ch'ella mi creda libero" belongs to Bj=F6rling. 15. Carcass - Heartwork The opposite end of the spectrum, of course, for when nothing else will do. This nearly could have been Napalm Death's "Utopia Banished," but Carcass gets the edge for the massive guitar riffage of the title track. 16. American Music Club - Mercury This could easily have been "California" or "Everclear" but "Mercury" gets the edge for oddness and one of the greatest desperate odes of all time, "Apology for an Accident." 17. Fairground Attraction - The First of a Million Kisses Eddi Reader's vocal candyfloss in its warmest setting. 18. Art Ensemble of Chicago - Live in Berlin There are more important albums, but this is the most scintillating of the later complete concert recordings. 19. Astor Piazzolla - Tango Zero Hour One of the greatest records ever made, period. 20. Kip Hanrahan - Desire Develops an Edge An art film disguised as a record of poems about politics, both international and interpersonal. Obviously my classical background and pop proclivities are all apparent to the max here, and I hope not to be disowned by the rest of you... The closest also-rans were "Spirit of Eden" by Talk Talk, "Workers Playtime" by Billy Bragg, James "Blood" Ulmer's "Odyssey," the 4CD set of Ravel's orchestral works played by the Montreal Symphony under Charles Dutoit, and Zorn's "Spillane." I was also startled to realize that there are numerous artists who are represented by 10, 20 or more recordings in my collection yet didn't make the trip to the island with me, first and foremost of which were Anthony Braxton and Cecil Taylor, both of whom I admire and enjoy wihtout reservation. And like so may other lists, Zorn himself didn't make the cut, but I still can't and won't ever underestimate the impact "The Big Gundown" had on my overall listening choices and development. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fate@telepath.com (Jon Mooneyham) Subject: Re: Top 20 Emos on Parade (way off-topic) Date: 02 Apr 1998 23:42:30 -0600 >Hey Jon, > >You can reduce having a passion for music to dickness if you like. As for >me, I highly value a bunch of people honoring one of the best things life >and creativity have to offer. Music. I love it. And I love seeing what >everyone really likes. > >Keith Hey Keith, Didn't mean to trample yer tootsies - but having a passion for music isn't quite the same as having a passion for making lists... and lest anyone else be w/ feathers all a-ruffled, I meant "dick" as in "penis," not "dick" as in "really arrogant and largely unpleasant male person." I enjoyed reading the lists, too - "Makin' a list, checkin' it twice" infects all sub-lists at some point... I have a few contributor's lists earmarked for future purchases... And, umm, what's the right term, here? Dickliness? Dickishness? Again, sorry... Jon "Dickhead" M. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Zorn <gking@win.bright.net> Subject: albums Date: 02 Apr 1998 23:52:53 -0800 EXPERIMENTAL PERFORMANCE WITH JOHN ZORN: Jojo Takayanagi GANRYU ISLAND: Michihiro Sato and John Zorn if anyone can provide me with a tape of either of these two i would be eternally grateful. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com> Subject: Re: Top 20 Emos on Parade (way off-topic) Date: 02 Apr 1998 21:49:03 -0800 (PST) On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Jon Mooneyham wrote: > Didn't mean to trample yer tootsies - but having a passion for music isn't > quite the same as having a passion for making lists... and lest anyone else > be w/ feathers all a-ruffled, I meant "dick" as in "penis," not "dick" as > in "really arrogant and largely unpleasant male person." you have too much time on your hands. hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: gsg@juno.com (Geoff S Gersh) Subject: Dougie Bowne Date: 02 Apr 1998 21:15:16 EST I heard that D. Bowne is paralyzed from the neck down....due to taking bad heroin!? He was gettin high with some 19 yo girl....I think she's in a coma. real sad if its true...... G. Gersh _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dwight Haden <dhaden@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Yet Another Top 20, but my first Date: 03 Apr 1998 06:48:14 +0000 25 actually, but I hope my lack of box sets makes things equal. Arranged roughly by date of release... 1. Pere Ubu The Modern Dance 2. Chrome Alien Soundtracks 3. The Stranglers No More Heroes 4. Gang Of 4 Entertainment! 5. Joy Division Closer 6. Mission of Burma VS 7. REM Murmur 8. The Birthday Party Mutiny/The Bad Seed EPs 9. Violent Femmes Hallowed Ground 10. Husker Du Zen Arcade 11. Robyn Hitchcock I Often Dream Of Trains 12. Sonic Youth Evol 13. Shockabilly Vietnam 14. Einst=FCrzende Neubauten F=FCnf Auf Der Nach Oben Offenen Richterscala 15. The Silos Cuba 16. The Pixies Doolittle 17. Kronos Quartet White Man Sleeps 19. Lounge Lizards Voice Of Chunk 18. Bongwater The Power Of Pussy 20. Miniature Can't Put My Finger On It 21. Tool Undertow 22. Boss Hog Boss Hog 23. Pigpen Live In Poland 24. David S. Ware Quartet Dao 25. Barbara Manning 1212 Noticeably absent, Mr. Zorn. That's because I could chuck the above list and just keep virtually all my Zorn / Naked City / Painkiller / Avant /=20 Tzadik CD's and be quite content. You'd have to pry them from my cold dead fingers. Dwight Haden =3D=3D=3D dhaden@worldnet.att.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mike burma <rizzi@grin.net> Subject: RE: Top 20 Emos on Parade (way off-topic) Date: 02 Apr 1998 22:53:03 -0800 >From: SUGAR in their vitamins? >On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Jon Mooneyham wrote: >> Didn't mean to trample yer tootsies - but having a passion for music isn't >> quite the same as having a passion for making lists... and lest anyone else >> be w/ feathers all a-ruffled, I meant "dick" as in "penis," not "dick" as >> in "really arrogant and largely unpleasant male person." >you have too much time on your hands. That's a pretty uncalled for comment, especially considering he apologized. mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: gsg@juno.com (Geoff S Gersh) Subject: 20 + Date: 03 Apr 1998 02:22:42 EST heres my list.....this was hard!!!!! there are many recordings that would probably make this list IF i had them....but, my CD purchasing has slowed down quite a bit in the last year or so..... anyway....here it is in no particular order: Eraserhead Soundtrack Pat Metheny - Q&A Charles Ives - Symphony #4, Central Park in the Dark, Three Places in New England Kenny Dorham - 2 Horns/2 Rhythm Samuel Barber - Adagio for Strings Bill Frisell - Quartet(well....everything by him!!) Marc Ribot - Requiem for Whats His Name Carl Stalling Project - Vol. 1 & 2 Deep Listening Band - Tosca Salad Gnawa Music of Marrakesh - Night Spirit Masters Le Mystere des Voix Bulgares - Bulgarian State TV Female Voice Choir(Vol.1,2 & Ritual-3 CD set) Charles Mingus - Live at Antibes "" "" "" "" - Blues and Roots Metallica - ....and Justice for All Jam Session of Tsugaru Shamisen - Yamada Chisato/Swada Katsuaki Angelo Badalamenti - Twin Peaks S/T (TV and film) Julee Cruise - the Voice of Love Kronos Quartet - Winter was Hard Henryk Gorecki - Symphony #3 w/ Dawn Upshaw John Zorn - Elegy "" "" "" - Filmworks 89 - 90, FW III "" "" """ - News For Lulu Masada - 3 and 5 ok...so i snuck a few extras in there......maybe next month we should do this again!!! G. Gersh _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dwight Haden <dhaden@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: Top 20 Date: 03 Apr 1998 07:58:14 +0000 I am amazed that I keep seeing Sonic Youth's Daydream Nation showing up on top 20 lists (it seems to me it's been on 6 or 7 lists so far.) I'm a long time SY fan and I consider Daydream Nation to be easily surpassed by anything they recorded before or since. Daydream Nation I mark as the first SY record with truly lame, uninspired lyrics, and, unfortunately, not the last. I see the new instrumental disks (SYR 1-3) as a giant step forward. Also, glad to see Naked City's Radio get mentioned on quite a few top 20's. Seems to me it usually gets disparaged on the Zorn Digest. I think the first 10 tracks on this disk are some of Zorn's best work (and Frisell's, and Horvitz's for that matter.) Dwight Haden === dhaden@worldnet.att.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Bramy <tbramy@oz.net> Subject: my 20 Date: 03 Apr 1998 00:18:42 -0800 (PST) I know if I go look through my stuff, this list would be impossible - so here it is off the top of my head: John Zorn: Kristallnacht Melvins: Houdini Bill Frisell: Before We Were Born Yoko Ono: Approximately Infinite Universe The Boomtown Rats: A Tonic For The Troops Big Black: Songs About Fucking Atari Teenage Riot: Burn Berlin Burn Miles Davis: Bitches Brew Butthole Surfers: Locust Abortion Technician Tony Scott: Music For Zen Meditation Naked City: Naked City Corrosion Of Conformity: Animosity Nirvana: In Utero Pink Floyd: The Piper At The Gates Of Dawn Philip Glass: North Star Steve Reich: Four Organs Derek and the Ruins: Saisoro Tom Waits: Bone Machine Mahavishnu Orchestra: Birds of Fire Elvis Costello: Armed Forces The Pixies: Doolittle Negativland: Escape From Noise Wow. That doesn't seem like very much. I'd like seconds. ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` Todd Bramy tbramy@oz.net http://www.oz.net/~tbramy ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` "It is not a fragrant world." Raymond Chandler ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob DeNunzio <zorn@gladstone.uoregon.edu> Subject: Re: Top 20 (JZ's Radio) Date: 03 Apr 1998 00:33:35 -0800 >Also, glad to see Naked City's Radio get mentioned on quite a few top 20's. >Seems to me it usually gets disparaged on the Zorn Digest. I think the first >10 tracks on this disk are some of Zorn's best work (and Frisell's, and >Horvitz's for that matter.) > > Dwight Haden === dhaden@worldnet.att.net The Radio phenomena brings up an interesting point. When I first starting delving my funds into the Avant Naked City discs. The Penguin Guide had all of the ones issued to that point, and like a dolt, I took thier advice and purchased Heretic instead of Radio. From their descriptions, it seems like they mixed the two discs up - what they had described of Heretic was nothing like what it was. They also gave Radio a very low rating. After I thought something was amiss, I went to listen to Radio and fell in love with it. I don't know how many people trust guides for purchasing music (I don't anymore!) but a mix-up like that probably didn't just affect me, esp. with a fancy little guide like Penguin's. Hell, it's the only guide I see stocked in jazz sections in most stores. I bet you're all pretty upset that you stopped to read this by now. Sorry kids, just yakkin'. Rob DeNunzio Hi-Fi Mundo http://www.teleport.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Julien Quint <Julien.Quint@xrce.xerox.com> Subject: Top 20 Date: 03 Apr 1998 10:39:05 +0200 My top 20 for this hour (April 3rd, 1998, 10 am). Compiled from work, not looking at my records collection. Actually, I'm pretty surprised at how this list turns out... I've missed so much stuff :( The choices for some artists (Coltrane, Ornette, Miles, the Boredoms, Mingus, Albini projects, Tortoise, Zorn of course) are totally arbitray, but they had to be there. Sorry it's a little over 20, these lists are really tough to compile! Alboth!...................... Amour 1991 (PDCD) Autechre..................... Chiastic Slide (Warp) Bali......................... a Gamelan disc (Nonesuch, JVC?) Bastard...................... Radiant, Discharged, Crossed-off (Semantic) Big Black.................... Atomizer (Touch & Go) Boredoms..................... Chocolate Synthesizer (Reprise) Brise Glace.................. When in Vanitas (Skin Graft) Cheer-Accident............... Not a Food (Pravda) Ornette Coleman.............. Beauty is a rare thing (Atlantic) John Coltrane................ Stellar Regions (Impulse) Miles Davis.................. Filles de Kilimandjaro (Columbia) Dazzling Killmen............. Face of Collapse (Skin Graft) Dog Faced Hermans............ Those Deep Buds (Alternative Tentacles) Eric Dolphy.................. Out to Lunch (Blue Note) Duke Ellington............... Money Jungle (Blue Note) Master Musicians of Jajouka.. Apocalypse across the sky (Axiom) Charlie Mingus............... Dynasty (Columbia) Naked City................... Torture Garden (Shimmy Disc) Nomeansno.................... Wrong (Alternative Tentacles) Slint........................ Spiderland (Touch & Go) Sonic Youth.................. Sister (Blast First) Tortoise..................... Millions now living will never die (Thrill Jockey) This Heat.................... This Heat (These) ps -- my copy of Torture Garden has 42 tracks, not 46 as I wrongly wrote earlier... must be the same as the 12" then. * Julien Julien Quint Member of the MLTT Resarch Staff Xerox Research Centre Europe julien.quint@xrce.xerox.com 6, chemin de Maupertuis phone: +33 (0)4 76 61 50 38 38240 Meylan, France fax: +33 (0)4 76 61 50 99 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque <Dgasque@aol.com> Subject: Re: Musique-Concrete; 3rd Stream Date: 03 Apr 1998 04:10:11 EST In a message dated 98-04-02 13:06:12 EST, you write: << May I suggest a great electronic record by a Composer, capital "C," with a more pop sensibility than you'll find in the pages of Computer Music Journal; the record is "Mom's" on New Albion, the Composer is Carl Stone. It's the best of all worlds; ambient, cut-ups, constructed tension and release; rhythms. The most listenable electronic music I know. >> I agree- great CD! =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque <Dgasque@aol.com> Subject: My 20 Date: 03 Apr 1998 04:10:06 EST A little bit of everything and in no order whatsoever- Cardiacs- All That Glitters is a Maresnest Louis Moholo Octet- Spirits Rejoice Area- 1978 Chase- Ennea Il Balletto di Bronzo- Ys Steve Lacy Septet- The Gleam Ozric Tentacles- Erpland Tangerine Dream- Phaedra Opus Avantra- Interspezione Arti+Mestieri- Giro di Valzer per Domani Beach Boys- Pet Sounds National Health- Queues and Cures Flea- Topi o Uomini Horslips- The Man Who Built America Sun Ra- Jazz in Silhouette Bruford- One of a Kind Terje Rypdal- If Mountains Could Sing Eberhard Weber- Silent Feet Can- Saw Delight Tarika Sammy- Son Egal =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Friedrich Feger <ffeger@gwdg.de> Subject: Top Disappointments / Meta-Comment Date: 03 Apr 1998 11:16:59 +0200 <paraindent><param>out</param>Bill Laswell: Dub Meltdown. Sounds like listening to the drum and bass tracks of a vulgar Reaggae recording in the studio before putting the rest of the band on tape. With some occasional disturbing and meaningless noises. Mike Patton: Pranza OltaorwhateverIforgotit. After hearing him live together with Zorn and beeing really impressed, I couldn't believe that. The same with Faith No More as a whole. I simply didn't get it. Pat Metheny: Imaginary Day. It continues the sequence of recordings beeing less and less bearable. There are so many records of him that I like a lot (Offramp, 80/81, Duo w/Haden, Song X, Still Live Talking...), this is Kitsch as Kitsch can, without any ironic distance. </paraindent>That's it so far. I must say that I really enjoy this climax of the whole chart/recommendation thing on the list. For two reasons: first, we did something almost everybody secretly wanted to to for a long time (I suspect), and it revealed the celebrated diversity of tastes here, as well as the funny fact that Zorn and avant music in general is not the core of the music passion of SOME people here. Secondly, I nourish the hope that we are kind of through with the recommendation thing after this excess, so that we can turn to more general and theoretic issues. What has always been the thing I liked the most here. Fritz. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vadim Marmer <msvadi@olive.mscc.huji.ac.il> Subject: King Crimson (20 best) Date: 03 Apr 1998 12:54:41 +0200 (WET) King Crimson was mentioned so many times, so i decided to give it another chance, i have not listened to KC about 4 years (since i`m on Jazz). So i went to the store and picked up "Red". And i just have to say, that "Red" is Great! How could i forget it for so long period?! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: top 20 Date: 03 Apr 1998 20:20:54 +1000 As if you're not sick enough of all this already, here's another one: (in no particular order) Mr Bungle - Disco Volante, Mr Bungle Ruins - Hyderomastgroningem Mahavishnu Orchestra - Birds Of Fire Zorn - Naked City, Bar Kokhba, Masada 1, Masada 7, Big Gundown Naked City - Radio, Grand Guignol Charlie Hunter Trio - Charlie Hunter Trio Secret Chiefs Trio - First Grand Constitution And Bylaws Cartoon - Ovine Bovine Faith No More - Angel Dust, King For A Day Primus - Frizzle Fry, Sailing The Seas Of Cheese Soundgarden - Superunknown Morricone - Fistful Of Film Music Steve Coleman - Def Trance Beat - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: flamerik@best.ms.philips.com Subject: Top disappointments Date: 03 Apr 1998 13:00:14 +0200 I think only albums should qualify for "top disappointment" that you had high expectations of. I mean, I just *know* that the new Spice Girls album isn't going to be of much interest for me, so from that point of view it's not going to disappointment me. Maybe we should also have a category "albums that you expected nothing of but turned out really great in the end". Okay, my top disappointments would include: - Every single Primus album since Frizzle Fry; - Every single album by anyone in Mr. Bungle except maybe Mike Patton (I must confess I haven't heard the new Secret Chiefs 3 album yet). How come these guys have made one of the most brilliant albums ever, and their other projects are all lame? - 95% of my collection of drum'n'bass. Listening to it now, just about everything sounds really bleak. In my opinion, when drum'n'bass falls from its throne, only people like Photek and Squarepusher are going to survive, mainly because they have already moved largely outside of the purist d&b arena. Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrick Stockton" <sheepherder@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: Trout Mask Replica Date: 02 Apr 1998 17:24:47 -0800 >TROUT MASK REPLICA shows up on a lot of lists. I haven't heard it, but I >had the sampler ZAPPED as kid and it had one or two Beefheart on it. Now >I'm thinking this is a good time to finally buy it. > >Doug McKay >In Minnesota do so without hesitation. TMR is one of those rare gems of recorded music. especially when considering the relatively conservative nature of the music industry at the time it was recorded. without complete funding and resources from Frank Zappa, this album would not exist. Zappa basically gave Beefheart (Don Van Vliet) complete and total creative control and a studio and any musicians he needed. the result is a glance into the mind of a poet/visionary from the late sixties, a mind from the other side of the tracks. he did not fit in with popular culture, and he sure as hell was not a hippy. he, zappa and others were just wierd intellectual artists intent on destroying the banal, popular middle America. of course, Zappa and Beefheart were high school buddies but shortly adfter this project they had a bitter dissolution of their friendship. they got back together, and allegedly made up in '75 and did an album "Bongo Fury" and a tour. but it seems that this was only a favor to beefheart, to help him make some cash or something. i think i remember zappa saying that they were not really friends ever again but they did the album anyway to help beefhearts failing career. that is supposedly why the cover of "Bongo Fury" is a photo of Zappa and Beefheart sitting facing forward. Beefheart has his head down with a hat on, as if he is hiding his face in shame. Eight years before he trash talked Zappa in the media, in his music, in his poetry, and then comes crawling back. just a ramble...... anyway buy the album! patrick in portland - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrick Stockton" <sheepherder@worldnet.att.net> Subject: TOP 20 Date: 02 Apr 1998 17:07:07 -0800 i hope im not too late on this one... sorry if this is already a tired thread. John Zorn - "Bar Kokhba" Juan Garcia Esquivel - "Other Worlds, Other Sounds" Frank Zappa - "One Size Fits All" Caveman Shoestore - "Flux" Caveman Hughscore - self-titled (this is Caveman Shoestore with Hugh Hopper) Hughscore - "High Spot Paradox" Edgar Varese - "Ameriques/Offrandes/Hyperprism/Octandre/Arcana" (rec. by Orchestre National de France and conducted by Kent Nagano Carla Bley - "Tropical Appetites" Bad Brains - "I Against I" Gary Burton - "A Genuine Tong Funeral" (composed by C. Bley) Pigpen - "V as in Victim" Boodlers - self-titled (trio of Sharp, Chalenor, Franzoni) Bill Frisell - "Have A Little Faith" Tipsy - "Trip Tease" Mark Ribot - "Shrek" Mark Ribot - "Shoe-String Symphonettes" Frank Zappa - "You Are What You Is" George Antheil - Ensemble Modern conducted by HK Gruber - "Plays the music of George Antheil" and..... #20 can be any Miles Davis album between "Miles Smiles" (1966) to "Filles de Kilimanjaro" (1968) with the lineup of Ron Carter, Tony Williams (RIP), Wayne Shorter, and Herbie Hancock. patrick in portland - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Laura <Laura@elite.dk> Subject: Re: the top 20, etc etc Date: 03 Apr 1998 14:14:47 +0200 (MET DST) Just to drag this out a little more, how about a top 5 or some other arbitrary number list of how people got turned onto these albums? For example, by others, by reviews, by listening to previous examples, etc? Just a thought.. Laura Your data is gone All is lost Pull trigger? (yes/no) - Winner of Salon Magazine's Windows error message Haiku contest - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Kowalski <BKowalski@genetics.com> Subject: anyone listening? Date: 03 Apr 1998 08:26:24 -0500 Hey all - W/ all the postings to this list (even in digest format I receive average 3-5 daily) do y'all have time to listen to the music chatted up? Just curious (perhaps someday when I've a PC at home I'll understand.) Currently enjoying FWVIII, Circle Maker & Michael Nyman's soundtrack to animated game / interactive movie (dunno) Enemy Zero. Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andy Marks" <Andy.Marks@mts.com> Subject: Re: Yoshihide Dates. Date: 03 Apr 1998 08:28:23 -0500 > >Several days ago, Sachiko sent me the schedule of their U.S. and European > tour. > >The U.S. tour schedule is as follows; -snip dates not near me > >5/13 <wed> Detroit,Mi / USA [ ] Filament Anyone know where this Detroit date is at? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Artur Nowak <arno@silesia.top.pl> Subject: RE: Top 20 disappointments Date: 03 Apr 1998 09:39:12 +0200 >> Incidentally, why all the griping over short disc times? Shouldn't the >> dollar value of a product have to do more with the intrinsic worth of >> the creation involved rather than peripheral matters like its >> duration? Wouldn't most folk here rather listen to 20-25 minutes of >> 'Plexure' or 'Cynical Hysterie Hour' than 75 minutes of (for lack of a >> better person to dump on) Celine Dion? Do you also feel cheated if a >> good novel is only 150 pages long instead of being padded to 600? >> Brian Olewnick [Artur Nowak] Your're right, there is no relation between money or CD lenght and quaity of music. But there is between different albums. If you have to choose your "Lonely Island Top 20" (carefully selected form your Top 200 list), do you prefer the 60+ minutes CDs or could you survive with 10 hours of bunch of short albums? OR: if you find 10 superb CDs in a store, and you have money only for 5, do you buy the shorter or the lornger ones? ____________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/emd/pl40/artists/f/frisell_bill/default.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Artur Nowak <arno@silesia.top.pl> Subject: Top 3 (was: Top 20) Date: 03 Apr 1998 09:43:21 +0200 I don't have privilege to answer the "Top 20" question with a list of 20 albums, because I don't have 1000 records. ;-) So, here is my "Top 3" list Category: ROCK/EXPERIMENTAL - Jimi Hendrix Experience "ARE YOU EXPERIENCED?" Category: JAZZ - John Coltrane "A LOVE SUPREME" Category: CLASSICAL - Witold Lutoslawski "PRELUDES & FUGUE FOR 13 SOLO STRINGS" + "CELLO CONCERTO" I know these records for years, and I'm sure of them: MASTERPIECES. This was easy. You guys have too many records! Do you have time to listen to your "Top 20" weekly / monthly / yearly? ____________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/emd/pl40/artists/f/frisell_bill/default.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Artur Nowak <arno@silesia.top.pl> Subject: RE: Disappointments Date: 03 Apr 1998 09:39:58 +0200 >> Second is Redbird. I enjoy Dark River, but Redbird itself still just sounds [Artur Nowak] Is there anybody who likes this records? (I really would like to know). I can still remember the discussion about "fake Zorn", and this is the point: among these 200 records with Zorn, there are many NOBODY likes. Including mr Zorn himself (Zorn [gking@win.bright.net]) :-) ____________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/emd/pl40/artists/f/frisell_bill/default.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Crimson & Astor (was Top 20) Date: 03 Apr 1998 08:59:06 -0500 >>>>> "Steve" == Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> writes: Steve> 1. King Crimson - Larks' Tongues in Aspic My top 1 desert Steve> island disc. One of my colleagues just acquired Night Watch, the new live release of the supposedly famous 1973 Concertgebouw recording. Man, this kicks ass! Some of the improv on here made it onto the Starless album, but it sounds so much better here in its raw, unadulterated state. I'm going to have to get a copy of this for myself, and since there's so much Crimson in our lists, I'll recommend it for all the Crimson fans out there. Steve> 19. Astor Piazzolla - Tango Zero Hour One of the greatest Steve> records ever made, period. I keep forgetting this one. I have it on vinyl, which means I don't get to listen to it as often as I'd like, but yeah. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rusty Crump <dmcrump@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu> Subject: RE: Disappointments Date: 03 Apr 1998 08:31:56 -0600 >>> Second is Redbird. I enjoy Dark River, but Redbird itself still just >sounds >[Artur Nowak] Is there anybody who likes this records? (I really would like >to know). >I can still remember the discussion about "fake Zorn", and this is the >point: among these 200 records with Zorn, there are many NOBODY likes. >Including mr Zorn himself (Zorn [gking@win.bright.net]) :-) > > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Artur Nowak > www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/emd/pl40/artists/f/frisell_bill/default.htm I, for one, love "Redbird." (And "Dark River.") I put it, "For Samuel Beckett," some Eno, and Yo La Tengo's "Fakebook" in the CD changer when I want to settle down for a long serious session of reading. Rusty Crump Oxford, Mississippi - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Parrot Fish Eye (was 20 essential records) Date: 03 Apr 1998 09:27:36 -0500 >>>>> "brian" == brian olewnick <brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu> writes: >> Mats Gustaffson Parrot Fish Eye (OKKA) brian> Could someone provide a brief review of this? I've brian> almost picked it up on several occasions. Eight duets with Michael Zerang on percussion, followed by 5 trios with Gene Coleman on bass clarinet and Jim O'Rourke on acoustic guitar (mostly) and a little accordion and percussion, everything recorded during a week-long stay by Gustafsson in Chicago in May 1994. Nice set of liner notes by John Corbett. 56 minutes total. Some of the pieces are quite short (five of them under 3 minutes), and especially in the trios, are sometimes pretty sparse. I was kind of disappointed with the trios because the acoustic guitar doesn't really work for me here, especially in the relatively few moments when MG and Coleman are really blowing and the guitar, to me, just sounds lame strumming along. OTOH, you really get to hear MG's sax playing very well, it's a very clear recording, and I imagine this is an excellent document of what he sounds like live. Unlike other recordings I've got with MG, this one is all acoustic. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: TOP 20 Date: 03 Apr 1998 09:36:37 -0600 (CST) On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Patrick Stockton wrote: > and..... #20 can be any Miles Davis album between "Miles Smiles" (1966) to > "Filles de Kilimanjaro" (1968) with the lineup of Ron Carter, Tony > Williams (RIP), Wayne Shorter, and Herbie Hancock. Seeing as box sets are getting listed, you could probably get away with listing the new boxed set that contains *all* of those (and which has been leering enticingly at my wallet for the past week...) - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: RE: Disappointments Date: 03 Apr 1998 09:45:21 -0600 (CST) On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Artur Nowak wrote: > >> Second is Redbird. I enjoy Dark River, but Redbird itself still just > sounds > [Artur Nowak] Is there anybody who likes this records? (I really would like > to know). "Redbird" is one of my favorite Zorns. The title track is pretty much an homage to Morton Feldman's work for larger ensembles. Listen to his "For Samuel Beckett" or the "... and Orchestra" pieces, and Redbird may come into focus for you. - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Two Comments Date: 03 Apr 1998 07:30:47 -0800 (1) A coupla folks have asked the question my wife always asks: What's the point? How often do you listen to most of those? There isn't enought time. I file that question under the general category titled: Why live, we're just gonna die? And since I plan to live at least another 50 years. In 20,000 days I can listen to a hell of a lot of music. And, you know, different states of being require different musicks. It is reprehensible to get into a space which screams for a partcular tune and to not have it handy. It's a quality of life thing. (2) I'm twitching to start the next thread: Top 20 most memorable live concert experiences. I suppose we should wait till we've finished this one, eh?....but...but....Captain Beefheart at the Whisky (2X), Golden Bear, and Country Club (Reseda) on the Shiny Beast tour...oops...I couldn't help myself.........I'll stop....I'll stop....but then there's Sun Ra at Myron's Ballroom in LA with Astronauts suspended by cables from the ceiling gliding across the room...I'm sorry....I'm trying to stop.........Archie Shepp at Kimball's in SF doing everything from Ascension style chaos to crooning 'Girl From Ipanema....please forgive me....I'm stopping.... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Butch Morris in today's NYTimes Date: 03 Apr 1998 09:52:47 -0600 (CST) http://www.nytimes.com/yr/mo/day/news/arts/morris-conductor-profile.html - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francisca" <monsalve@interaccess.cl> Subject: RE: Top 20 Egos on Parade Date: 03 Apr 1998 10:57:16 -0400 Jon, Sorry to interrupt, but not all of us on this list have a dick. Grow up. -- Francisca ---------- > De: Jon Mooneyham <fate@telepath.com> > A: zorn-list@xmission.com > Asunto: Top 20 Egos on Parade > Fecha: Friday, April 03, 1998 12:44 AM > > Hey, I'm as guilty as the next subscriber... BUT: > With over a hundred messages from this list in the last 24 hours, I gotta > say, there's nothin' like a Biggest/Coolest Dick contest (like this) to get > everybody's fingers flyin' over the keyboard... > > ok, back to lurker mode. > > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Top 20 at the moment... Date: 03 Apr 1998 08:04:22 -0800 On Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:37:38 -0600 Jon Mooneyham wrote: > > & a current fave - > Cujo-Adventures in Foam Talking about that one. I can't remember but the soprano sax reminds me of Wayne Shorter on one of Laswell's project. Not only the sax, but the complete piece... Happens on two/three tracks of this record, and this has quite reduced my enthousiasm for it. Still some doubt but... Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Concerts Date: 03 Apr 1998 10:58:28 -0500 >>>>> "Keith" == Keith McMullen <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> writes: Keith> (2) I'm twitching to start the next thread: Top 20 most Keith> memorable live concert experiences. I suppose we should Keith> wait till we've finished this one, Keith> eh?....but...but....Captain Beefheart at the Whisky (2X), Keith> Golden Bear, and Country Club (Reseda) on the Shiny Beast Keith> tour...oops...I couldn't help myself.........I'll Keith> stop....I'll stop....but then there's Sun Ra at Myron's Keith> Ballroom in LA with Astronauts suspended by cables from the Keith> ceiling gliding across the room...I'm sorry....I'm trying Keith> to stop.........Archie Shepp at Kimball's in SF doing Keith> everything from Ascension style chaos to crooning 'Girl Keith> From Ipanema....please forgive me....I'm stopping.... Nooo, nooo, I'm getting sucked in... I've spent more time on this list this week than doing anything resembling real work. Zorn and Chadbourne on the Free Improvised Country & Western BeBop tour, playing the craziest possible music, grabbing for different instruments two and three at a time, one of the group (Kramer?) with half a dozen cheap cassette recorders in front of him, into which he popped tapes in and out very rapidly. All this for me and the bartenders, because no one else showed up. Duke Ellington. The last encore in which he introduced 'our young piano player' before playing the most heart-rending solo. Johnny Clegg and Savuka performing amazing acrobatics and tribal dances. Sorry I don't have 20. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: J Burke <jbb4u@yahoo.com> Subject: ZORN,PATTON,MORI Date: 03 Apr 1998 07:58:25 -0800 (PST) i have a video of this show at the knitting factory, march 14 @ 9pm. i am only interested in trades and will trade audio for audio and video for video. i am mostly interested in video, and stuuff to do with mike patton. if anyone is interested please e-mail me privatly. thnx jim _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Stravinsky/Shostakovitch do jazz?? Date: 03 Apr 1998 08:24:45 -0800 References: <E0yKyRS-00000C-00@lists.xmission.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Douglas Knox writes: > Heard a piece for brass on the radio a while back; it was a jazz-suite by > Stravinsky for Shostakovitch (or maybe: the other way around). I think it > was the 2nd of 2. Don't know too much about these guys, but like my few > Stravinsky records just fine. Can anyone fill me in? > It's hard to tell from your description, but it might be Shostakovitch, who wrote two "Jazz Suites," with those words in the title. If it featured a solo clarinet, it's Stravinsky's "Ebony Concerto," which was written for Woody Herman. If you've ever wondered where Gil Evans got some of those great sonorities from, it's the "Ebony Concerto." gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fran Bacon" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: Mats Gustafsson / P. Fish Eye Date: 03 Apr 1998 08:23:38 PST > >>>>>> "brian" == brian olewnick <brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu> writes: > > >> Mats Gustaffson Parrot Fish Eye (OKKA) > > brian> Could someone provide a brief review of this? I've > brian> almost picked it up on several occasions. > >Eight duets ..... I was kind of >disappointed with the trios because the acoustic guitar doesn't really >work for me here, especially in the relatively few moments when MG and >Coleman are really blowing and the guitar, to me, just sounds lame >strumming along. OTOH, you really get to hear MG's sax playing very >well, it's a very clear recording, and I imagine this is an excellent >document of what he sounds like live. Unlike other recordings I've >got with MG, this one is all acoustic. PARROt FISH EYE (for those of you who haven't seen Mats live) is NOT a good representation of Mats-in-the-flesh. I saw him solo in New Orleans thanks to the efforts of a very independent promoter there (no scene at all for frimprov down there)and it was AWESOME. Everyone says that live is always better than records: this is generally true for improv but not always. With Mats there's such a performance-emphasis that the energy is impossible. It was incredibly exciting and dynamic. And the slap-tongue and vocal techniques are mesmerizing. ALL the BEST KSH ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Schwitterz <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: 20 Date: 03 Apr 1998 08:15:22 -0800 COUNTRY MUSIC IN THE WORLD OF ISLAM BLOOD ON THE TRACKS EXPOSURE MAGIC AND LOSS BONE MACHINE WELD UNCLE MEAT AEC 1967/8 DIE LIKE A DOG JOHN CARTER'S AMERICAN SUITE (DAUWHE + 4) SOFT MACHINE THIRD ADRITTI 4TET: CAGE'S COMPLETE STRING 4TETS PASSIO WELL TUNED PIANO PULSE DEMON REAL TCHICAI SEVEN SOULS VERNAL EQUINOX RELATIVE RLIABILITY HEJIRA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com> Subject: Re: concerts Date: 02 Apr 1998 11:45:32 -0500 Best shows... Tough one again. Saw the Art Ensemble play one of the first shows at the new Knitting Factory- what stood out in my mind was before they started, they all stood silently with their heads bowed, facing east. Very moving. Just to see Sonny Rollins hit the stage at the Bottom Line a few years ago was a thrill, not to mention the way he could hold a note for a few minutes (I was out of breath just watching this). Ikue Mori is BRILLIANT- she sits there and turns some knobs and what she's able to coax out of samplers and drum machines is incredible. She's a good match for any techno artist I've heard. Lee Perry's shows at Wetlands last year were really memorable- not even just the garb he had on but the way that the Mad Professor made him sound like he was standing on a mountain top, yelling through a thunder storm. The Raincoats opened for Liz Phair a few years back and got a great reception (incl. me yelling my head off for them). They were genuinely surprised and confused by the positive response. Ana told the crowd 'you know, we're not done yet,' not understanding how enthuastic everyone was. Then there's Judy Collins/Arlo Guthrie (first show I ever saw), My Bloody Valentine (ears rang for a month), Big Star (yelled out the lyrics louder than Alex), John Prine (ditto), Ornette at Carnegie Hall last year (despite the lousy acoustics). Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Walsh <MATTW@smginc.com> Subject: Jumping on the "20 CDs" bandwagon... Date: 03 Apr 1998 11:51:00 PST I wasn't going to send in my list, but I caved in and decided to do so for the hell of it. If I was forced to spend the rest of my life with 20 CDs, I'd probably rather die... I'm just the kind of person who can't listen to the same things too frequently (which probably explains my 3,000+ CD collection). Funny thing is, when I narrowed myself to 20, I realized that it was pretty one-sided, and not remotely representative of my collection... So here is my pretty boring list - this is a Jazz list and I have practically no Jazz CD's in here! Definitely not a "best 20 of all time", but a "20 I'd need for different emotions to get me through life", etc. In alphabeical order: Boredoms - "Soul Discharge" Celtic Frost - "Into The Pandemonium" Celtic Frost - "To Mega Therion" Al DiMeola - "Kiss My Axe" Faith No More - "Angel Dust" Helmet - "Meantime" King Crimson - "Discipline" King Crimson - "Lark's Tongues In Aspic" King's X - "Gretchen Goes To Nebraska" Meshuggah - "Destroy Erase Improve" Mr. Bungle - "Mr. Bungle" My Dying Bride - "Turn Loose The Swans" Naked City - "Torture Garden" Pink Floyd - "Wish You Were Here" Primus - "Frizzle Fry" Rush - "Moving Pictures" Therion - "Theli" They Might Be Giants - "Flood" Voivod - "Nothingface" John Zorn - "Spy Vs Spy" ...and I'd try to sneak Lords Of Acid's "Voodoo U" in one of my jacket pockets... This will probably change tommorrow... Actually, if I had to choose 20 CDs, I'd spend the week before making my own 20 CD-R's... There were some pretty interesting lists on here... Well, hope you all had a good laugh with mine... Later, Matthew Walsh Software Engineer - Strategic Management Group mattw@smginc.com mattmonkw@aol.com Matt's personal CD jukebox - Currently playing and annoying co-workers with: Voodoo Glow Skulls - "Firme" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris Barrett" <cbarrett@neaq.org> Subject: Oren Bloedow Date: 03 Apr 1998 12:05:20 -0500 This is pretty far off topic, I know, but I was wonderin' if anyone knows anything about Oren Bloedow's new CD on the Knitting Factory label, or has any info on him (I guess he was in the Loung Lizards for a time?). Email me privately if you've got any info/insight. Thanks, -Chris - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: GABE_EISENSTEIN@HP-Vancouver-om10.om.hp.com Subject: top 20s Date: 03 Apr 1998 09:57:39 -0800 Albums: I stuck to original issues -- greatest hits makes it a bit easier. Coltrane Meditations Stockhausen Hymnen Ornette Change of the Century Elvis Costello Imperial Bedroom Zappa Hot Rats Circle Paris Concert Spirit 12 Dreams of Dr. Sardonicus Zorn Bar Kokhba Naked City Naked City Leonard Cohen Songs From a Room Grateful Dead Live Dead They Might Be Giants Lincoln Steely Dan Aja King Crimson Discipline Rickie Lee Jones Flying Cowboys McCoy Tyner Extensions Richard Thompson Shoot Out the Lights Blue Nile Hats Jefferson Airplane Crown of Creation Townes Van Zandt Live in Houston Items I was glad to see on other lists: Stockhausen acoustic Kontakte (EC)Nudes Vanishing Point (I prefer the CD Pale Nudes--Wise to the Heat) Bill Frisell Have A Little Faith Ornette Coleman Science Fiction Miles In a Silent Way Dylan Blood on the Tracks Coltrane Ballads Caveman Shoestore Flux (I prefer Master Cylinder) Dave Holland Conference of the Birds Sonic Youth Daydream Nation (I reconsidered after the putdown of this album; sorry, it really is my favorite SY) too recent to make the list: Radiohead OK Computer Dave Douglas Sanctuary Pigpen Daylight Stereolab Dots and Loops Portishead Portishead Arcana Arc of the Testimony Golden Palominos Pure My top 20 live concerts Ornette Coleman trio some hole in the wall in Detroit 1973 Ravi Shankar Ann Arbor 1974 Masada Jewish Museum NYC 1994 (or Showbox,Seattle 1996) Elvis Costello "farewell tour" Portland 1997 Keith Jarrett solo New Orleans 1977 McCoy Tyner quartet Detroit 1974 Don Cherry,Foday Musa Suso Amazing Grace,Chicago 1980(?) CrosbyStillsNashYoung,Joni Mitchell Chicago 1970 (my first concert) Grateful Dead Ann Arbor 1972 Pixies, Pere Ubu Fox Theatre, Portland 1991 Old & New Dreams Armadillo World Headquarters, Austin 1978 The Kinks,Blondie Armadillo World Headquarters, Austin 1978 Bob Mould,Vic Chesnutt W.O.W. Hall, Eugene 1989(?) Public Image Limited Starry Night, Portland 1989 Richard Thompson,Shawn Colvin Portland 1992(?) Van Morrison San Francisco 1986(?) Frank Zappa Detroit 1973 Tone Dogs Blue Gallery, Portland 1989 Bill Frisell Quartet W.O.W. Hall, Eugene 1991 Poison Idea Melody Ballroom, Portland 1992 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Keldon Drudge <kdrudge@julian.uwo.ca> Subject: Re: Stravinsky/Shostakovitch do jazz?? Date: 03 Apr 1998 13:15:25 -0500 (EST) On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, James Douglas Knox wrote: > > Heard a piece for brass on the radio a while back; it was a jazz-suite by > Stravinsky for Shostakovitch (or maybe: the other way around). I think it > was the 2nd of 2. Don't know too much about these guys, but like my few > Stravinsky records just fine. Can anyone fill me in? > Shostakovich's two jazz suites (late 1920's, early 1930's) are, for me at least, beautiful and fun--in the same vein as his first symphony or first piano concerto to some degree, but with considerably more whimsy. the recording by the royal concertgebouw with chailly conducting (and also featuring the piano concerto #1) is one of my top 20 for sure. the jazz moniker is perhaps a bit misleading, but it is kind of big bandish (the liner notes mention an american bandleader called paul whiteman, but i haven't heard him...anyone?) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mike burma <rizzi@grin.net> Subject: RE: Jumping on the "20 CDs" bandwagon... Date: 03 Apr 1998 10:17:25 -0800 >this is a Jazz list and I have practically no Jazz CD's in here! Please, let us dispel the myth that this is a Jazz list. It is the John Zorn list and to quote the charter statement: "The Zorn list was created so that fans of John Zorn and his many projects could come together and chat about the man and his music...Naked City, Masada, Painkiller, etc..... Also discussed on this list are: Bill Laswell, Bill Frisell, Elliott Sharp, Bobby Previte, Wayne Horvitz, Zeena Parkins, Knitting Factory roster artists, Joey Baron, Last Exit posse, and any other downtown NYC connected musicians. " mike rizzi zorn-list-owner-and-enforcer - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris Barret{" <cbarrett@neaq.org> Subject: Re: Stravinsky/Shostakovitch do jazz?? Date: 03 Apr 1998 13:29:22 -0500 > (the liner notes mention an american bandleader >called paul whiteman, but i haven't heard him...anyone?) If I remember my early Jazz history correctly, Paul Whiteman's band in the twenties and thirties played "safe" big band/orchestra jazz that wasn't as ruanchy as the Jelly Roll Mortons and King Oliver/Louis Armstrongs for the white, more affluent crowds. I think he was based in New York. I can't remember if early coronet gret Bix Beiderbeck actually played with him or not. Can anyone else fill in what I've left out, or correct in inaccuracies I may have mentioned? -Chris - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: eric@av.letts.american.edu (Eric Gordon) Subject: BIG 20 Date: 03 Apr 1998 13:35:33 -0500 I can no longer resist, please excuse spelling and other errors, I'm at = work and can't check the titles. In no particular order; 1. John McLaughlin- Devotion 2. Coltrane- Ascension 3. Ornette- Of Human Feeling 4. Tin Berne's Chaos Totale- nice view 5. Julius Hemphil- Big Band 6. R.S. Jackson- Street Priest 7. Power Tools- Strange Meeting 8. Duke Ellington- Black, Brown, & Beige 9. The Residents- Duck Stab/ Buster & Glenn 10. Soft Machine- 3 11. Pere Ubu- Song of the Bailing Man 12. Last Exit - Last Exit 13. McCoy Tyner- Sahara 14. Eric Dolphy- Out To Lunch 15. Demi Semi Quaver- Demi Semi Quaver II 16. Blood Ulmer- Music Revelation Ensemble 17. Fred Frith- Speechless 18. John Carter- Shadows on the Wall 19. Bill Frisell- Before we were Born 20. Material - Memory Serves 21(oops). Beefheart- Trout Mask Replica Mostly sentimental favorites here, it would be very difficult to choose = if I actually could only have 20 records. I'm glad I don't have to. =20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Re: Stravinsky/Shostakovitch do jazz?? Date: 03 Apr 1998 13:23:58 -0600 Whiteman was the watered down version of big band. And, yeah, it was directed towards the wgite folks. I read a book called "The Story of Jazz" (which you all should read if you haven't already) that talked a bit about Whiteman. He was more of a pop guy, well known because he was popular. His contributions to jazz and the development of jazz were little to none. I guess his arrangments were conservative and possibly boring to people who enjoyed Ellington and Fletcher Henderson and others around that time. I do believe that Bix Beiderbeck was in the Whiteman band but he played soprano sax, not cornet. On the subject of older (1940s) big band... I'm listening to a Dizzy Gillespie disc called The Complete RCA Victor Recordings and it's great. The Penguin Guide gave it a very rare 5 stars and it deserves it. Maybe I should start making my top 20 list... On second thought, maybe not. Dan At 12:29 PM -0600 4/3/98, Chris Barret{ wrote: >> (the liner notes mention an american bandleader >>called paul whiteman, but i haven't heard him...anyone?) > >If I remember my early Jazz history correctly, Paul Whiteman's band in the >twenties and thirties played "safe" big band/orchestra jazz that wasn't as >ruanchy as the Jelly Roll Mortons and King Oliver/Louis Armstrongs for the >white, more affluent crowds. I think he was based in New York. I can't >remember if early coronet gret Bix Beiderbeck actually played with him or >not. Can anyone else fill in what I've left out, or correct in >inaccuracies I may have mentioned? > >-Chris > > > >- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Patrick Ivan Jenkins <cz176@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Date: 03 Apr 1998 14:37:43 -0500 (EST) I was wondering if anyone out there knows the answer to the following questions. 1)I read in an article on John Zorn's Masada, that the Masada compositions are written in six or less staves of music. If there are any musician's out there I'd be interested on knowing how the Masada musicians can perform such long pieces of music based on such little musical notation and yet have the pieces come out sounding similar each time? Are they improvising on a set of chords or melody lines or is there a musical shorthand? I'm not a musician but I'd be curious to know? When Zorn performed here in Toronto in 1995 with Masada and in 1997 with Bar Kokhba, the sheet music did look like it was six staves or less for each piece. 2)Does anybody know of a dictionary or resource book to translate the titles of the masada compositions into English? I was told that they are phonetic hebrew words and names? 3)I really like Mark Ribot's guitar playing on the Bar Kokhba and Circlemaker discs. I'm interested in his Ribot's "Shoe String Symphonies" and his other CD's but I would like to know if they're in the same vein as his work with Bar Kokhba? I'd appreciate any opinions on Ribot's recordings. I'm a big fan of Zorn's Masada and Bar Kokhba projects. I also like his Filmworks series and the Naked City CD. Any information would be appreciated. Thanks, Patrick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Stravinsky/Shostakovitch do jazz?? Date: 03 Apr 1998 14:42:48 -0500 (EST) Paul Whiteman was a white (sic) bandleader of the 1920s most famous for his "symphonic jazz". His orchestra was the first to perform Rhapsody In Blue, with Gershwin. However the orchestra itself was a lumbering beast so, although he employed great sideman - Bix Beiderbecke, Jack Teagarden, Eddie Lang, Joe Venuti etc. etc. he buried them in arrangements and Whiteman's band was never the equal of Duke Ellington's, Fletcher Henderson's or any other "real jazz" group of the period. Of course because he was more palatable to the majority of people, he was dubbed the "King of Jazz," just like Benny Goodman, not Count Basie was "King of Swing". Whiteman is usually seen as the villan in thge heavily romantic the Beiderbecke sage, but, in truth, but kept the alcoholic, sick cornestist on his payroll, whether he could play or notr almost until he (Bix) died. Whiteman lived until the 1960s, had a TV show in the 1950s, and, I think, helped discover Bobby Darin. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net P.S. IMHO it's time to call the list making to a halt. I have as many records as the next person, and as many favorites, but I think spreading useful information is a better "read" than who likes what On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Keldon Drudge wrote: > > On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, James Douglas Knox wrote: > > > > Heard a piece for brass on the radio a while back; it was a jazz-suite by > > Stravinsky for Shostakovitch (or maybe: the other way around). I think it > > was the 2nd of 2. Don't know too much about these guys, but like my few > > Stravinsky records just fine. Can anyone fill me in? > > > Shostakovich's two jazz suites (late 1920's, early 1930's) are, for > me at least, beautiful and fun--in the same vein as his first symphony > or first piano concerto to some degree, but with considerably > more whimsy. the recording by the royal concertgebouw with chailly > conducting (and also featuring the piano concerto #1) is one of my > top 20 for sure. the jazz moniker is perhaps a bit misleading, but it > is kind of big bandish (the liner notes mention an american bandleader > called paul whiteman, but i haven't heard him...anyone?) > > > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Stravinsky/Shostakovitch do jazz?? Date: 03 Apr 1998 14:45:31 -0500 (EST) If Bix played soprano sax, then Joey Barron plays cello and Dave Douglas plays English horn Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Dan Hewins wrote: > Whiteman was the watered down version of big band. And, yeah, it was > directed towards the wgite folks. I read a book called "The Story of Jazz" > (which you all should read if you haven't already) that talked a bit about > Whiteman. He was more of a pop guy, well known because he was popular. > His contributions to jazz and the development of jazz were little to none. > I guess his arrangments were conservative and possibly boring to people who > enjoyed Ellington and Fletcher Henderson and others around that time. I do > believe that Bix Beiderbeck was in the Whiteman band but he played soprano > sax, not cornet. > > On the subject of older (1940s) big band... I'm listening to a Dizzy > Gillespie disc called The Complete RCA Victor Recordings and it's great. > The Penguin Guide gave it a very rare 5 stars and it deserves it. Maybe I > should start making my top 20 list... On second thought, maybe not. > > Dan > > > At 12:29 PM -0600 4/3/98, Chris Barret{ wrote: > >> (the liner notes mention an american bandleader > >>called paul whiteman, but i haven't heard him...anyone?) > > > >If I remember my early Jazz history correctly, Paul Whiteman's band in the > >twenties and thirties played "safe" big band/orchestra jazz that wasn't as > >ruanchy as the Jelly Roll Mortons and King Oliver/Louis Armstrongs for the > >white, more affluent crowds. I think he was based in New York. I can't > >remember if early coronet gret Bix Beiderbeck actually played with him or > >not. Can anyone else fill in what I've left out, or correct in > >inaccuracies I may have mentioned? > > > >-Chris > > > > > > > >- > > > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Stravinsky/Shostakovitch do jazz?? Date: 03 Apr 1998 11:53:33 -0800 Keldon Drudge writes: > (the liner notes mention an american bandleader > called paul whiteman, but i haven't heard him...anyone?) > Paul Whiteman had a famous jazz style pop big band in the 1920s-30s, which at one time featured Bix Beiderbecke. He also commissioned and premiered a pleasant tune by the name of "Rhapsody in Blue," by a talented songwriter of the day, George Gershwin. Some of you may be familiar with it . . . ? :-) gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Walsh <MATTW@smginc.com> Subject: RE: Jumping on the "20 CDs" bandwagon... Date: 03 Apr 1998 14:52:00 PST <<Please, let us dispel the myth that this is a Jazz list.>> Mike, What I meant was that the list is a list for Zorn & Zorn-related artists, which essentially fall under the Jazz genre (thought obviously not limited to), in the same that another artist list I am subscibed to, My Dying Bride, while being a list specifically for that band, is essentially a doom metal list since My Dying Bride is a doom metal band (albeit a rather different one). Sorry for the confusion, Matthew Walsh Software Engineer - Strategic Management Group mattw@smginc.com mattmonkw@aol.com Matt's personal CD jukebox - Currently playing and annoying co-workers with: Theatre Of Tragedy - "Velvet Darkness They Fear" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Stravinsky/Shostakovitch do jazz?? Date: 03 Apr 1998 11:56:26 -0800 References: <E0yLCNo-0001Sw-00@lists.xmission.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dan Hewins writes: > I do > believe that Bix Beiderbeck was in the Whiteman band but he played soprano > sax, not cornet. > And when you get to Casablanca, try the waters! Bix Beiderbeck was one of the great cornetists/trumpeters in the history of jazz. If he ever played soprano sax, Dan is the only guy who knows about it! gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Re: Stravinsky/Shostakovitch do jazz?? Date: 03 Apr 1998 14:03:09 -0600 Who am I confusing him with then? There was some old-time guy who played soprano sax, wasn't there? Hmmmm... Oh! I'm thinking of Sidney Bechet (sp?). Nevermind. Dan At 1:45 PM -0600 4/3/98, Ken Waxman wrote: >If Bix played soprano sax, then Joey Barron plays cello and Dave Douglas >plays English horn - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Stravinsky/Shostakovitch do jazz?? Date: 03 Apr 1998 14:12:53 -0600 (CST) On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Ken Waxman wrote: > P.S. IMHO it's time to call the list making to a halt. I have as many > records as the next person, and as many favorites, but I think spreading > useful information is a better "read" than who likes what I think most of the regulars have chimed in. Perhaps whoever it is who is keeping tally should declare an end-point (allowing a little more time for those who haven't submitted their lists to do so) then let us know the result? I'd actually be interested in a list of all those that were listed, since even some of those that got a single vote reminded me to buy them... ...and then DMG mail order should put all of them on sale :-) - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Sherry <msherry@psych.umass.edu> Subject: Marty Ehrlich Date: 03 Apr 1998 15:20:09 -0500 (EST) I've been listening to Marty Ehrlich's The Traveller's Tale(1990). It covers alot of stylistic ground with a very sinuous melodic feel and Bobby Previte's drumming often has a "rolling thunderish"quality, I find. Ehrlich played on The Big Gundown. Can anyone who has listened to his more recent music critique it? Thanks in advance. Mike - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris Bar{ett" <cbarrett@neaq.org> Subject: Re: Stravinsky/Shostakovitch do jazz?? Date: 03 Apr 1998 15:28:48 -0500 >I do >believe that Bix Beiderbeck was in the Whiteman band but he played soprano >sax, not cornet. I may be shaky on the Whiteman info, but as a trumpet player, I *know* that Bix was a coronet player, and hung with Hoagy Carmicheal. -Chris - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Keldon Drudge <kdrudge@julian.uwo.ca> Subject: Re: Marty Ehrlich Date: 03 Apr 1998 15:31:26 -0500 (EST) his `urlicht' on winter & winter (compositions by mahler, featuring dave douglas, joey baron, uri caine, etc.) is great. On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Michael Sherry wrote: > I've been listening to Marty Ehrlich's The Traveller's Tale(1990). It > covers alot of stylistic ground with a very sinuous melodic feel and > Bobby Previte's drumming often has a "rolling thunderish"quality, I find. > Ehrlich > played on The Big Gundown. Can anyone who has listened to his more > recent music critique it? Thanks in advance. > Mike > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob DeNunzio <zorn@gladstone.uoregon.edu> Subject: Re: Ribot Date: 03 Apr 1998 12:38:29 -0800 > >3)I really like Mark Ribot's guitar playing on the Bar Kokhba and >Circlemaker discs. I'm interested in his Ribot's "Shoe String Symphonies" >and his other CD's but I would like to know if they're in the same vein >as his work with Bar Kokhba? >I'd appreciate any opinions on Ribot's recordings. Ribot's solo recordings ("Shoe String Symphonettes", "Shrek", "Rootless Cosmopolitans") are pretty varied, yet they all have that unmistakable Ribot twang somewhere on them. "Shoe String" has a set of his music for films, my favorite of which are the small ensemble works and the lone mambo tune (which he plays trumpet on). "Rootless Cosmopolitans" is a total blend of all his interests, from the Lounge Lizards style playing to the "minimalist" style which pervades Shrek. Don Byron does some wonderful playing on "Rootless", as well as Anthony Coleman. Shrek is filled with mesmerizingly (I've also heard it called boring, but who's to say) repetitive work which is most notably brought to life by Jim Pugliese. Of all of them, I find "Shoe String" the most mature and varied of his works, great to sink your teeth into. His performances on numerous Tom Waits, Lounge Lizards, Elvis Costello, and of course, Zorn Filmworks albums are all worthwhile, as he is probably one of the more unique modern guitarists. His versions (2) of Burt Bacharach's "Don't Go Breaking My Heart" on the Tzadik compilation never cease to amaze me. > >I'm a big fan of Zorn's Masada and Bar Kokhba projects. I also like his >Filmworks series and the Naked City CD. Any information would be >appreciated. This is where it gets touchy (esp. in lieu of missing Zorn titles in everyone's top 20 lists), because his work is so varied, it becomes a major issue of personal taste. I'll step out with my opinion on his top 10 CDs: (in no particular order) The Big Gundown Naked City Naked City - Radio Spillane / Two-Lane Highway Filmworks 1986-90 Filmworks II Filmworks VIII Filmworks III Masada Ensembles - Bar Kohkba Duras / Duchamp I don't feel knowledgeable enough about all of the Masada albums to pick the best out, I'm sure someone else can help out there. Hope this helps, Rob DeNunzio Hi-Fi Mundo http://www.teleport.com/~hifim - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Marty Ehrlich Date: 03 Apr 1998 12:38:40 -0800 On Fri, 3 Apr 1998 15:31:26 -0500 (EST) Keldon Drudge wrote: > > his `urlicht' on winter & winter (compositions by mahler, featuring dave ^^^^^^^ This is a Uri Caine record. Patrice. > douglas, joey baron, uri caine, etc.) is great. > > > On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Michael Sherry wrote: > > > I've been listening to Marty Ehrlich's The Traveller's Tale(1990). It > > covers alot of stylistic ground with a very sinuous melodic feel and > > Bobby Previte's drumming often has a "rolling thunderish"quality, I find. > > Ehrlich > > played on The Big Gundown. Can anyone who has listened to his more > > recent music critique it? Thanks in advance. > > Mike > > > > - > > > > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Winter & Winter Date: 03 Apr 1998 14:57:15 -0600 Does anyone know who carries Winter & Winter discs? (online or mail order) I have been trying to find the Big Satan disc and I am interested to see what else they have... Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FUNKADELlC <FUNKADELlC@aol.com> Subject: blah blah blah Date: 03 Apr 1998 16:19:27 EST im not as musically educated as all you.. im still young <17> theres alot i havent heard yet.... but i know i'd go crazy if i didnt have my Bitches Brew, some Fishbone..i guess Give a Monkey a Brain... i cant decide which zorn id want.. i need my Zappa Roxy and Elsewhere... Minutemen- Double Nickles on the Dime, i dunno which P-Funk.. i love em all.. and throw in the first Wu- Tang...and <dont hate me> a toss up between Yes' Close to the Edge or REalyer <blush> -corn diggity dog next time: top 10 live performances - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FUNKADELlC <FUNKADELlC@aol.com> Subject: Bomb ass live shows Date: 03 Apr 1998 16:37:53 EST these shows have influenced me greatly in life.....<in no paticular order> 1)most recently P-Funk at the Billboard.. i've seen em like 10 times but this time it went off for 5 hours...they did everything..the horns at one point busted into "I am the slime" then "freedom jazz dance".. hee hee 2)Psychic TV at SinAmatic... wow.. this was insane, Genesis P' orridge was all fucked up on extacy..circa 96 3)MR Bungle at The Palace.. right when Disco Volante came out i beleive.. i really didnt know the album yet.. and i didnt quite understand em.. they were all in masks and the horn players looked like monks and Patton had like a keybord/harness/thing.. it was really cool.. the sound was the best 4) FISHBONE!!!!!!! ive seen fishbone about 13 times and everytime its my favorite.. Fishbone truely is my favorite live band... ever.. period 5) Yes <blush> in SLO i know, i know.. but it was like a dream come true seeing Rick Wakeman and Steve Howe to me.. i thought id never see em on stage playing those songs! I wasnt alive in the 70's! about 96 6) Bad Brains and the Beastie Boys at some college in Compton... I love the Bad Brains and the Beasties put on the tightest show in da biz... serioulsy! again 95-96 7) Buckethead at The Mint.... i never heard of him or seen him before this night... he blew my ass away.. after you see Buckethead live all other Guitar players seem useless.... 8) King Crimson on their THRAK tour at the Ventura Theater was fucking awesome... but i really hate seats... i hate seats at concerts!!! AHHH! but fuck man.. Adreian Belew, Fripp, Bruford, Levin.. what can i say that you all dont already know? 9) WU TANG CLAN at a little club called LA HACIENDA.. it was just supposed to be a Ghostface Killa show but they all showed up, Meth, the Rza.. all of dem.. it went off.. around when the Ghostface album came out. and finally.... 10) fIREHOSE at the Anaconda when i was 13... this is my first concert.. i saw Mike watt and he sweated on me... i loved them... it was cool -cory sklar sorry.. i guess you all are saying "this kid needs some jazz" and i do.. i know this.. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer <keffer@shell.planetc.com> Subject: Ribot Date: 03 Apr 1998 17:06:15 -0500 > From: Patrick Ivan Jenkins <cz176@freenet.toronto.on.ca> > 3)I really like Mark Ribot's guitar playing on the Bar Kokhba and > Circlemaker discs. I'm interested in his Ribot's "Shoe String Symphonies" > and his other CD's but I would like to know if they're in the same vein > as his work with Bar Kokhba? > I'd appreciate any opinions on Ribot's recordings. I totally dug the Ribot/Cohen duet "Mahlah" (I think) on Bar Kokhba and I dig Ribot's playing on the Ribot/Zorn duets on Filmworks III and I dig Ribot's playing on Ikue Mori's "Painted Desert" cd. Thinking I would check out some other Ribot, I picked up "Shoe String Symphonies" (Tzadik). IMO, the compositions on "Shoe String Symphonies" are lame, not exciting, not wonderful like "Mahlah" or FWIII, or "Painted Desert". The tracks on SSS are somewhat original but still lame. So then I thought that, perhaps, Ribot was a fantastic musician but not a fantastic songwriter, (because only on SSS had he composed the music) so I checked out "Don't Blame Me" (DIW), guitar solos, most of which are composed by other people. I gave the disc half a listen but very quickly decided that the Ribot I was looking for was not on this disc either. This disc sounds more like "tinkering" with a guitar than playing. Now, here on the list, god damn us if we don't all love tinkering, but if you're looking for melodic Ribot, neither "Shoe String Symphonies" nor "Don't Blame Me" is going to make you happy. Instead, try "Painted Desert" (Avant) very nice, and Filmworks III (Tzadik), not all that melodic but fantastic guitar playing all the same. Another thing to avoid, if you are looking for melodic Ribot, is "The Book of Heads" (Tzadik). This would be exactly not what you are looking for. David K. p.s. For those on the list who are wild about "The book of heads", no need to reply and enumerate the virtues of that record. It has its virtues; I'm just saying it is not melodic. I don't want to start a thread on the top 20 virtues of "The book of heads". Heaven forbid. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lucio <lukcyfer@interlink.com.ar> Subject: 6 disappointments 6 Date: 03 Apr 1998 19:21:55 -0300 Hi, I really wanted this albums to come out, but now I don't know what to do with them (please, don't give any suggestions) 1- KING FOR A DAY- Faith No More Where were the keyboards in this album? Without Roddy FNM is NOT really FNM. It was just a good record from a good band (which didn't sound like FNM) 2- FILMWORKS II- John Zorn Very boring compared to Filmworks I 3- Z-ROCK HAWAII (Boredoms+Ween) Just Ween trademark songs with Eye shouting on them. They didn't create any new sounds together, it's just each band doing their part. 4- THE MOLLUSK- Ween They were more creative on the old days (The Pod, Pure Guava) when all they had was a guitar and a drum machine. 5- AFTERTASTE- Helmet After Betty it seemed that Helmet was trying new things on their songs but Aftertaste was not a good comeback. It's better to buy "Meantime" instead. 6- MODUS OPERNADI- Photek Monotonous drum n' bass (you listen to one track, you listened to all) I know many of you may think I'm crazy because of this list but if you have some good arguments you might convince me to give them another listen. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: List Tally Date: 03 Apr 1998 22:21:32 UT I got 'em all so far. I'll let the weekenders chime in with their faves, if they want to, then post the final results. Also, anyone who wants a complete list can email me for a Windows XL spreadsheet, or a comma separated text file. Let me know your preference. Peter peter_risser@cinfin.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re: Two Comments Date: 03 Apr 1998 15:31:08 -0500 Keith McMullen wrote: (snip) > (2) I'm twitching to start the next thread: Top 20 most memorable live > concert experiences. I was just thinking about suggesting the same thing..... Rich - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re: Date: 03 Apr 1998 15:49:25 -0500 Patrick Ivan Jenkins wrote: > > I was wondering if anyone out there knows the answer to the following > questions. > > 1)I read in an article on John Zorn's Masada, that the Masada > compositions are written in six or less staves of music During the recent Masada String Trio radio b-cast, JZ revealed that the comps are written just like standard jazz compositions. The heads are notated, and the rest is improv based on the chord changes of the head. If you've ever seen The Real Book this should be very familiar > 2)Does anybody know of a dictionary or resource book to translate the > titles of the masada compositions into English? I was told that they are > phonetic hebrew words and names? Zorn also said something to the effect that even he doesn't remember the translations, since he got them from many different books. Some are hebrew, some are from other languages of the middle east. Rich - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Bramy <tbramy@oz.net> Subject: Yes <blush> Date: 03 Apr 1998 16:16:41 -0800 (PST) >...and <dont hate me> a toss up between Yes' Close to the Edge or REalyer ><blush> > >- -corn diggity dog No need to blush, corn- I recently had a chance to listen to the latest Yes "Keys to Ascension 2", and was very surprised at how good it was. Nothing like the "Big Generator" sound I was expecting. Anyhow, this put me on something of a Yes binge, at which time I thankfully rediscovered "Relayer" as a long forgotten treasure from my youth. Good call! Todd ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` Todd Bramy tbramy@oz.net http://www.oz.net/~tbramy ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` "It is not a fragrant world." Raymond Chandler ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Uncle Meat <jf.lamarre@sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: Disappointments (with Redbird) Date: 03 Apr 1998 19:17:05 -0500 Artur Nowak wrote: > >> Second is Redbird. I enjoy Dark River, but Redbird itself still > just > sounds > [Artur Nowak] Is there anybody who likes this records? (I really would > like > to know). > Artur Nowak wrote: > >> Second is Redbird. I enjoy Dark River, but Redbird itself still > just > sounds > [Artur Nowak] Is there anybody who likes this records? (I really would > like > to know). > Well, i do. You see, i've always enjoyed the sound of a washing machine running for a long period of time. So to me, this is just about the same thing: a constant rythm that is almost hynotic (well, it does that to me). Another song that i feel is hypnotic is Dio Fa by Zappa: god do i love these Tuvans! Uncle Meat > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: Top 20 disappointments Date: 03 Apr 1998 19:19:57 -0500 (EST) ZORN/EYE - 'nani nani' and 'zohar'...sad sad sad to think i could've purchased something good instead of these... SHAKTI - 'best of': after hearing their brilliant live album, this struck me as such over-produced, easy-listening studio crap (except for the first song, which was off the live album...) -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: 20 Date: 03 Apr 1998 19:32:04 -0500 (EST) off the top of my head - 1. Erik Satie - gnossienes, gymnopedies, etc... 2. Shivkumar Sharma & Zakir Hussain - Rag Madhuvanti, Rag Misra Tilang 3. Bach - sonatas and partitas for solo violin (Arthur Grumiaux) 4. Bach - The musical offering 5. Bach - Solo cello suites 5. Naked City - self titled 6. Masada - Alef 7. Peter Namlook - Air 8. Skinny Puppy - Bites and Remission 9. Skinny Puppy - Too Dark Park 10. Bartok - complete string quartets 11. Autechre - Tri Repetea 12. David Bowie - the rise and fall of ziggy stardust and the spiders from mars 13. Ensemble Anonymous - Rue Des Jugleors 14. Laurie Anderson - United States Live 15. Astor Piazzola - Tango Sensations, or maybe Zero Hour 16. Clemencic Consort - Carmina Burana (uncut version) 17. Steve Reich - 'Music for large ensemble, Octet, Violin Phase' 18. The compilation of Greek Rebetika music from the 30's with the green cover... 19. Dead Can Dance - self titled 20. Tom Waits - bone machine - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "PETSITTER" <PETSITTER@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: 6 disappointments 6 Date: 03 Apr 1998 06:33:45 -0600 -----Original Message----- >Hi, > > I really wanted this albums to come out, but now I don't know what >to do with them (please, don't give any suggestions) > >1- KING FOR A DAY- Faith No More >Where were the keyboards in this album? Without Roddy FNM is NOT really >FNM. It was just a good record from a good band (which didn't sound like >FNM) > >2- FILMWORKS II- John Zorn >Very boring compared to Filmworks I > >3- Z-ROCK HAWAII (Boredoms+Ween) >Just Ween trademark songs with Eye shouting on them. They didn't create any >new sounds together, it's just each band doing their part. > >4- THE MOLLUSK- Ween >They were more creative on the old days (The Pod, Pure Guava) when all they >had was a guitar and a drum machine. > >5- AFTERTASTE- Helmet >After Betty it seemed that Helmet was trying new things on their songs but >Aftertaste was not a good comeback. It's better to buy "Meantime" instead. > >6- MODUS OPERNADI- Photek >Monotonous drum n' bass (you listen to one track, you listened to all) > > I know many of you may think I'm crazy because of this list but if >you have some good arguments you might convince me to give them another >listen. Oh, I agree with you. The only 2 albums I have on that list of yours are King for a day.... and FWII and they both disapointed me. I don't really regret buying them, but my expectations were different for both. In my opinion King for a Day is the worst Mike Patton Faith no MOre CD. I find FW2 interesting once in a while, but for some reason I can't listen to it straight through. I think it is boring compared to any of the Film Works. It's nice to have in the collection thoughf > > > > >- > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: Top 20 disappointments Date: 03 Apr 1998 16:28:50 -0800 everything Frisell has recorded under his own name the last godflesh remix (the remix of songs of love and hate) every new recording by Zappa after Zoot Allures when Beefheart quit recording to paint Don Cherry's death Miles Davis' comeback recordings everything Steve Reich has done since Drumming & 18 Musicians everything Philip Glass has done since EINSTEIN Jan Garbarek live the Playboy Jazz festival David Murray last time at Catalinas doing the bossa nova in a suit all the electro-acoustic music THE WIRE raves over the second ARCANA cd Buckethead live in Goleta King Crimson breaking up 2 weeks before I had tickets to see them in Chicago in 1974 or 5 or whenever King Crimson breaking up 2 weeks before I had tickets to see them in Chicago in 1974 or 5 or whenever King Crimson breaking up 2 weeks before I had tickets to see them in Chicago in 1974 or 5 or whenever King Crimson breaking up 2 weeks before I had tickets to see them in Chicago in 1974 or 5 or whenever King Crimson breaking up 2 weeks before I had tickets to see them in Chicago in 1974 or 5 or whenever King Crimson breaking up 2 weeks before I had tickets to see them in Chicago in 1974 or 5 or whenever - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Uncle Meat <jf.lamarre@sympatico.ca> Subject: 20 Date: 03 Apr 1998 20:08:09 -0500 For the last couple of days, i took the time to look at all your lists. Then 2 things came up to me: 1) I started to wonder how many people could be on this list? A hundred? 2) I said to myself that i would finally take the time to share my own little list, because i realized that some of my favorite albums never made the list. So here it is: -Alice Cooper Pretties for you -Alice Cooper Easy Action -Dead Kennedys Fresh fruit for rotten vegetable -Dead brain cells Universe -Frank Zappa Weasel's ripped my flesh -Frank Zappa Joe's garage -Mr. Bungle Disco Volante -The Zombies The Collection -Masada Alef -Frank Zappa Lumpy gravy -Frank Zappa Waka/Jawaka -Harmonium L'heptade -Butthole Surfers Locust abortian technician -John Zorn Spillane -Iron Maiden Live after death -Getz/Gilberto s/t -Black Sabbath Sabotage -XTC Waxworks/beeswax -Nomeansno 0+2=1 After completing this list, i'm in shock! Where are all my Cage, Stravinsky, Ives, Jean Derome, Varese, Coltrane, Coleman (...) records! I found two possible answers: - most of the albums on my list stood the test of time: i've listened to most of them for years. So maybe those records that i love so much but didn't make the list need some time to grow on me. - or maybe, just maybe, i'm swimming against the current of mainstream music just to be unique among the people i meet. But then again, i really do like all these great composers/musicians that didin't make the list. This important question must be asked: why does our avant-garde records (Zorn for one) don't make the list as often as we (or i) previously thought? Uncle Meat - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> Subject: Rzewski Birthday Concert Date: 03 Apr 1998 20:27:37 -0500 In celebration of Rzewski's 60th birthday, the Kitchen (NYC) is hosting three concerts devoted to his music April 16-18. Among the performers will be Anthony de Mere, Aki Takahashi and our own Steven Drury. Mr. Drury, would you be kind enough to let us in on the specific programs for these three days? NYC-area z-listers unfamiliar with Rzewski's work: get the hell over there--he's one of the single most beautiful composers alive. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John McMahon <jmcmahon@wwdc.com> Subject: Bargain Bins; Other Lists (longish) Date: 03 Apr 1998 20:26:06 +0000 Hi! I have really been enjoying the Top 20 thread. I get the digest version, and instead of one every couple of days, I've been getting half-a-dozen a day. What is fascinating (to me) is the way in which there is an overlap in taste between/among those of us who are Zorn fans. Lots of Waits, Beefheart, Ornette, Miles - things which would seem to have little in common, but which appeal to lots of people who also like Zorn. Or is it just that EVERBODY likes Miles, Ornette, Waits, Beefheart? I dunno. Don't be embarassed... lists are what music freaks DO! Be honest, now: how many of us went through the incoming lists and did a "Got it, got it, need it, got it.." routine? So here's another bandwidth-gobbling thread to ponder: In every good record store there is a bin which is filled with the incoming stuff that is too weird, unpopular, unclassifiable, for the owners to expect to make much money on. Or else it contains those items which for whatever reason the industry has decided to delete, and get rid of at a bargain price. When I was growing up in Detroit, I'd cruise from Montgomery Ward's to Federal's to Kresge's to every little record shop in the area looking for those bins with the magic symbols "LPs...$1.88 Each" atop them. To this day (some thirty plus years and a change of country later), it is the bargain bin to which I head when I enter any place that sells records/CDs. I suspect that not all of you folks paid full price for everything in your collections either. So, here's the question: What are your current five (5) favourite Bargain Bin stories? That is, what are the occasions when you had most clearly the "I can't believe they're selling this at THIS price!" feeling? This feeling can be typified by a tingling sensation at the back of the neck, and an overwhelming sense of gratitude and wonder that such marvels are avilable to, and affordable by, mere mortals. Just so we don't crash all the servers from here to Poland, let's limit it to five. Bonus marks for high wonderfulness-to-price ratio. Extra bonus marks if you include a Zorn-related story (just so the list-owner doesn't give up in despair). And no marks for Record Industry Freebies. Here's mine, for starters: Duke Ellington: "The Duke and his Men" There was a little Hi-Fi and Appliance shop on Grand River that kept a stack of these on hand to demonstrate record players with. I went in (I was maybe 13) and asked the sales guy how much it was to buy the demo disc; I already had a stereo. He asked if I had a quarter. Sold! Sun Ra: "Heliocentric Worlds" (Vols 1+2) "Nothing Is" Albert Ayler: "Bells", "Spiritual Unity", "New York Eye & Ear Control" Patty Waters: "Sings" For a brief time, Windsor, Ontario had a Sam the Record Man outlet on its main street. In its bargain bin, I found a huge heap of ESP-Disc releases still sealed for around two bucks each. I kept pulling them out until I ran out of money. The ones I didn't get (Giuseppe Logan springs to mind) still haunt me. The Spontaneous Music Ensemble: "The Source: From and Toward" Found unsealed in a K-Mart bargain bin for 25c! Mohamed Abdel Wahab: "Al Karnak, Falestine, Dimashq" Released by Soutelphan records of Cairo, I found this used, but in mint condition, in Value Village (a thrift shop) in London, Ontario, for 99c. John Zorn: "Spy vs Spy" + "The Big Gundown" For around three bucks apiece in a Sam the Record Man bin at Devonshire Mall in Windsor. All of the above were on vinyl. I picked up dozens of things in the late eighties, when the record companies started dumping vinyl to force us to buy CDs: David Holland, Old & New Dreams, Walcott, Weber, etc. on ECM. "Nixon in China" for $9.99... It goes on... Barre Philips, Music Construction Company, David Darling. Okay, I'm done. Hey, what are you listening to RIGHT NOW? Cheers, John McMahon, no longer lurking. Now Playing (CDs): Om Kalsoum: "Hajartek" (when I started writing this) Guy Klucevsek: "Stolen Memories" (while I wait for my son to get off the phone so I can post this). ...later... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: 20 live shows Date: 03 Apr 1998 18:35:25 -0500 This is MUCH easier, and in no particular order(except for #1) they are 1. Golden Palomino's 8/6/82 Public Theatre NYC. My 1st exposure to Zorn, Arto, David Moss, and Jamaaladeen. Needless to say they took my head off. People were laughing, crying tears of sheer joy and dancing in the aisles. What a great noise they made. The interplay between Laswell and Tacuma was un-fucking believable. 2. Decoding Society 4/30/85 Jonathan Swifts, Cambridge Mass They started with the fastest, most frenetic version of Bebop ever played, and it only got better from there. 2 1/2 hours and it rarely let up. 3. King Crimson Nov 81 The Savoy NYC Fripp damn near falls off his stool while soloing 4. Sonny Sharrock August 1985 The backing band wasn't very good, but it was the night I first met Sonny, and despite everything he still burned with that intensity he had. They were doing Coltrane covers and a few originals. The show took place in a neighborhhod bar on the lower east side that had 3 distinct personalities. It was a jazz club, a low-level mob hangout, and the meeting place for a lesbian softball team. Quite amusing when they overlapped. 5. Last Exit Jan 91 Johnny D's lounge. Somerville Mass (What can I say, My biggest regret in life is that I didn't go on a tour with Exit. Mitch, Nicky, Steve Lake .... I will be eternally envious of you guys) 6. Al Dimeola/ UK(Bruford,Holdsworth,Wetton,Jobson) Summer 1976 Central Park NYC (you couldn't pay me to listen to this stuff now, but hey, I was 15 at the time, and it was the disco era) 7. Company December 1981 Roulette NYC (Bailey,Zorn,Laswell,Frith,Brotzman,Joelle Leandre, Keshavan Maslkak......) Brotzman and Maslak did a 25 minute duo of non-stop Machine-Gun style shrieking that I've never seen matched. At one point Maslak was writhing on his back, blowing like it was his last breath....absolutly stunning. The normally sedate Roulette audience were just as breathless and exhausted as the musicians! 8. Skeleton Crew/The Golden Polo Ponies(AKA Locus Solus) December 1982 NYC The Original Crew(Frith, Cora and Dave Newhouse from The Muffins on sax and Keyboards) Opening were Zorn, Arto and Anton. JZ was blowing so hard that night, his glasses fell off, and into his bowl of water. After the gig, walking down the street, I overheard someone say "That Zorn guy nearly blew his face off! ;-) 9. Willem Breuker Kollektief Feb 84 The Village Gate NYC (If these guys EVER come back to the states, Do NOT miss them. After seeing this, I kind of felt like I knew what it was like to see the old Mothers of Invention. 10. The Ordinaires 2/85 Sweet Basil NYC I went on a recommendation of a friend and stayed for all 3 sets and then hung with the band, whom I must have seen 20 times after that. 9 musicians who truly had fun playing for people. The records dont do them justice. 11. Massacre 4th of July 1981 Inroads NYC Great Show, Great venue, my 1st Frith show 12. Captain Beefheart Fall 1980 or 81 The Paradise Boston. It was around Halloween, my date cancelled so I went alone, In a Zippy the pinhead mask. The Captain comes into the audience, shakes my hand, smiles and says "Nice head". Later, I sit with "Mr Butch", a notorious Boston Street musician, who a few months later, while being interviewed on college radio, go's on a long rant about how he knows for sure that there are aliens walking among us. His proof....He met one at a Captain Beefheart concert. So I guess all those folks who think I'm from another planet could be right. 13. Pink Floyd The Wall 1980 Nassau Coliseum NY Full size airplanes crashing around me, giant inflatable neo-nazi pigs, with laser beam eyes, a 75 foot high wall, and 250 micrograms of a certain illicit substance, make for a memorable experience. 14. Vernon Reid's Living Colour Feb 85 7th Avenue South. NOT the same band that made the CD's. this was a high energy rock fusion show with Geri Allen guesting. They did an Ornette tune, and a bunch of stuff thats never been released. At the time I remember thinking that it sounded like what Hendrix might be doing if he were still here. 15. Ornette Coleman & Prime Time 6/30/85 The Old State House Lawn, Hartford. They declared it Ornette Coleman Day and gave him the key to the city! 16. Don Cherry/Billy Bang Quartet 1985 Tramps NYC with Dennis Charles and Wilbur Morris Beautiful, sparsely attended show with Don singing, playing Piano,trumpet and that african guitar that I wont attempt to try to spell. 17. Brand X 1979 Bottom Line NYC. Goodsall walks off the edge of the stage and down a front table, stepping in French Fries and Tequila Mockingbirds as he went, while playing a blistering solo. Later Phil Collins starts an arguement about who in the band has the best drugs. (2 years later he was at the top of the pop charts, and doing "Just Say No" ads for Nancy Reagan) 18. John Greaves/Peter Blegvad/Lisa Herman 1987 the Kitchen NYC Simply fucking beautiful music performed with only acoutic Guitar ,Piano and Voice. Lisa Herman has a voice that should have made her a star, whatever happened to her? 19. Frank Zappa Xmas shows 1976 Palladium NYC Hard to pick a best Zappa show, they were all amazing, but this stand with the Horns from the Sat Night Live band, and guest Don Pardo were exceptional. 20. Painkiller Spring 1996 Knitting Factory NYC (when they went from Free Improv into a bastardized version of Black Sabbaths Iron Man, I almost peed my pants) I also have to also mention the Tribute to Sonny Sharrock done by Vernon Reid Dave Fuze, Cindy Blackman,Bernie Worrell, TM Stevens et al. in Central Park 1994. The music was under rehearsed, but it was truly heartwarming to see the support for Sonny. And I could never forget Fred Frith and Tom Cora's Marching Band at the CISPES-led protests in Washington DC during the war in El Salvador. Sorry to be so long winded, but this was a hell of a lot more fun than trying to whittle down a fave album list. Rich - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: musique concrete Date: 03 Apr 1998 19:15:09 -0500 (EST) > > > distinction between 'popular' and 'academic' even further. But to me, > > > these terms are only indications of how many units a particular title > > > managed to shift. > > > > Actually, i think a very valid point was raised here a little while ago > > that there really are formal differences between 'academic' and > > 'underground' electroacousticians, with the former making more use of > > dynamic changes and tension/release passages (which is very much part of > > the western concert music tradition) while the latter tend towards more > > sprawling ambient drones and such. I think there's something in that. > > I think that the main difference is that one has "Composer" on his > business card (and, to a lesser extent, some subsidies and a desk in > a University). > Patrice. Well, yes, i haven't ruled that out entirely, either... :) -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: Bomb ass live shows Date: 03 Apr 1998 18:41:26 -0800 >5) Yes <blush> in SLO i know, i know.. but it was like a dream come true >seeing Rick Wakeman and Steve Howe to me.. i thought id never see em on stage >playing those songs! I wasnt alive in the 70's! about 96 My first two major rock shows back in the early 70s were ELP and YES in separate shows in a hockey rink (?) in the middle of a cornfield in Chicago. What is/was the name of that place? As Rolling Stone said at the end of a review of the ELP show: 'At the end, the audience screamed for an encore, but how could you possibly ask for more?' Blush now, but ECSTACY then. Brain Salad Surgery with 4 ENORMOUS banks of speakers in the 4 corners of the stadium. Stunning quadrophonic dinosaur prog rock BLISS. Ahhh...now for a demitasse of herbal tea and Kind of Blue....honey...hand me my walker...thanks... later, Keith - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R. Lynn Rardin" <RARDIN%ORION@BINAH.CC.BRANDEIS.EDU> Subject: Re: Mats Gustafsson / P. Fish Eye Date: 03 Apr 1998 22:12:13 -0500 (EST) KSH wrote: >PARROt FISH EYE (for those of you who haven't seen Mats live) is NOT a >good representation of Mats-in-the-flesh. I saw him solo in New Orleans >thanks to the efforts of a very independent promoter there (no scene at >all for frimprov down there)and it was AWESOME. Everyone says that live >is always better than records: this is generally true for improv but not >always. With Mats there's such a performance-emphasis that the energy >is impossible. It was incredibly exciting and dynamic. And the >slap-tongue and vocal techniques are mesmerizing. I agree completely. Loved the Gustafsson I'd heard on record, but the live performance is on a completely different level. I caught him a few months back in duet with Ken Vandermark at a small record store in Cambridge, MA. The intensity is incredible...indescribable, really. His tongueing is something else (it made my tongue hurt sometimes just to listen to it). His use of overtones is amazing. And that flutophone is pretty cool, too. :^) -Lynn - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Bramy <tbramy@oz.net> Subject: listening to Date: 03 Apr 1998 20:33:31 -0800 (PST) >Okay, I'm done. Hey, what are you listening to RIGHT NOW? Pitchshifter's new one "www.pitchshifter.com". todd =83=83=83=83=83=83=83 "For every complex question there is a simple answer. And it is wrong." H. L. Mencken - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Orangejazz <Orangejazz@aol.com> Subject: 20 Date: 04 Apr 1998 00:03:31 EST Here's my 20 albums, no specific order.. 1. Ornette Coleman + Howard Shore, Soundtrack To Naked Lunch 2. Tom Waits - The Black Rider two things relating to William Burroughs already.. 3. John Zorn - Cobra live at the knitting factory 4. Miles Davis - Bitches Brew 5. John Coltrane - A Love Supreme 6. Morphine - good 7.Dead Kennedys - Plastic Surgery Disaster And In God We Trust 8. The VU boxset 9. The Pere Ubu box set 10.The Cramps - Date With Elvis 11. Ken Nordine - The Best of Word Jazz Volume 1 (if anyone knows anything about this guy, besides his other album, Colors, or his radio show, please tell me) 12. Frank Sinatra - The Very Best 13. Naked City - Naked City 14. Syd Barrett Box set 15. The Music Of Edgar Varese 16. Esquivel - Space Age Bachelor Pad Music 17. Violent Femmes - Violent Femmes 18. Jeff Buckley - Grace 19. Piano Sonatas and Interludes - John Cage 20. Zappa - Uncle Meat Dissapointments 1. John Cale and Lou Reed solo albums, especially Lou Reed 2. Miles Davis - The 80's and beyond 3. Zappa after hot rats, but before his classical stuff 4. The end of "the elephant man", isn't that fucking sad.. Bargain Bin Discs 1. Stravinsky - Rite of Spring 2. Butthole Surfers - Pyschic Powerless and another man's sac 3. XTC - Nonsuch - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: listening to Date: 03 Apr 1998 21:19:50 -0800 >>Okay, I'm done. Hey, what are you listening to RIGHT NOW? Robert Wyatt's SCHLEEP over and over and over again with a break now and then for the remixed SEVEN SOULS by Material - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Date: 04 Apr 1998 15:43:46 +1000 > Patrick Ivan Jenkins wrote: > > > > I was wondering if anyone out there knows the answer to the following > > questions. > > > > 1)I read in an article on John Zorn's Masada, that the Masada > > compositions are written in six or less staves of music > > During the recent Masada String Trio radio b-cast, JZ revealed that the > comps are written just like standard jazz compositions. The heads are > notated, and the rest is improv based on the chord changes of the head. > If you've ever seen The Real Book this should be very familiar Just as an example, Abidan (from Masada 3 and Bar Kokhba) has only 12 bars in its cycle, repeated over and over (and over). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Ribot Date: 04 Apr 1998 15:54:12 +1000 > Thinking I would check out some other Ribot, I picked up "Shoe String > Symphonies" (Tzadik). IMO, the compositions on "Shoe String Symphonies" > are lame, not exciting, not wonderful like "Mahlah" or FWIII, or "Painted > Desert". The tracks on SSS are somewhat original but still lame. > So then I thought that, perhaps, Ribot was a fantastic musician > but not a fantastic songwriter, (because only on SSS had he composed > the music) so I checked out "Don't Blame Me" (DIW), I personally love Shoestring Symphonettes, particularly the "nice" tracks (the ones written for the unfinished project). I was a bit disappointed by Zorn's involvement though (I believe he's on it for all of 15 seconds). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: 6 disappointments 6 Date: 04 Apr 1998 16:00:50 +1000 > 1- KING FOR A DAY- Faith No More > Where were the keyboards in this album? Without Roddy FNM is NOT really > FNM. It was just a good record from a good band (which didn't sound like > FNM) I don't know about you, but I would prefer to hear Trey than Roddy any day. > 3- Z-ROCK HAWAII (Boredoms+Ween) > Just Ween trademark songs with Eye shouting on them. They didn't create any > new sounds together, it's just each band doing their part. "God In My Bed" is fantastic, as is "Tuchus" (for a while at least). "In The Garden" is a great track too. I admit this track is more Ween than anything, but I like Ween as well anyway. But those first two are definitely riddled with the Boredoms influence. By the way, it's not Boredoms and Ween, it's Eye and Ween. The others from the Boredoms are just guests. > 4- THE MOLLUSK- Ween > They were more creative on the old days (The Pod, Pure Guava) when all they > had was a guitar and a drum machine. Absolutely true. It's more an album full of "nice" songs, isn't it? "Mutilated Lips" is a particularly nice one though. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Top 20 disappointments Date: 04 Apr 1998 16:04:52 +1000 > everything Frisell has recorded under his own name Strange that this should come up when a few days ago, someone said they couldn't decide between them all for "best albums". The only solo release I have is "Nashville" which I think displays his wonderful playing very well. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Top 20 (JZ's Radio) Date: 04 Apr 1998 01:16:15 -0500 (EST) On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Rob DeNunzio wrote: > The Penguin Guide had all > of the ones issued to that point, and like a dolt, I took thier advice and > purchased Heretic instead of Radio. From their descriptions, it seems like > they mixed the two discs up - what they had described of Heretic was > nothing like what it was. They also gave Radio a very low rating. I agree that the Naked City entry is one of many where Cook and Morton don't seem to have put much effort into listening to the records. But I don't think they mixed them up. They just restricted their comments to the packaging, and evidently liked _Heretic_ better than _Radio_. Chris Hamilton Swearing Off List-Making - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Bargain Bins; Other Lists (longish) Date: 04 Apr 1998 16:08:41 +1000 > What is fascinating (to me) is the way in which there is an overlap in > taste between/among those of us who are Zorn fans. Lots of Waits, > Beefheart, Ornette, Miles - things which would seem to have little in > common, but which appeal to lots of people who also like Zorn. Or is it > just that EVERBODY likes Miles, Ornette, Waits, Beefheart? I dunno. Speaking of Waits, I noticed that probably the two albums of his that came up the most were "Raindogs" and "Bone Machine". I haven't actually got any of his albums, can someone describe these two to me? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: 20 best shows (well, make it 10) Date: 04 Apr 1998 16:27:28 +1000 In no particular order (all shows in Sydney Australia): 1. Bob Ostertag - Artspace 1997 2. Mr Bungle - Narrabeen Sands 1996 3. Mr Bungle - Macquarie Uni 1996 4. Triaxiom - Strawberry Hills Hotel 1997 - a freejazz/funk group with one of my friends on sax 5. Maldoror - Harbourside Brasserie 1997 - Mike Patton/Merzbow made lots of noise 6. Primus - Alternative Nation 1995 7. Sydney Jazz Festival 1995 - with Max Roach, plus local band d.i.g. 8. Regurgitator - Metro 1996 - it hardly made sense, but they were supported by Boredoms! 9. Sultana Muhammad - Harbourside Brasserie 1996 - local weird band, supported by a jazz quartet. 10. Willem Breuker Kollektief - The Basement 1997 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Artur Nowak <arno@silesia.top.pl> Subject: RE: Top 20 disappointments Date: 04 Apr 1998 08:42:47 +0200 Sent: Saturday, April 04, 1998 2:29 AM everything Frisell has recorded under his own name [Artur Nowak] Hmmm... I love Frisell's solo work, especially Nonesuch records. Please explain: What did you heard before Frisell's solo albums, that made your expectations higher, then his solo works? Naked City? What is better, than albums published under his own name? Bill Frisell Band? :-) ____________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/emd/pl40/artists/f/frisell_bill/default.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob DeNunzio <zorn@gladstone.uoregon.edu> Subject: Re: Bargain Bins; Other Lists (longish) Date: 03 Apr 1998 23:57:42 -0800 At 04:08 PM 4/4/98 +1000, Julian wrote: >> What is fascinating (to me) is the way in which there is an overlap in >> taste between/among those of us who are Zorn fans. Lots of Waits, >> Beefheart, Ornette, Miles - things which would seem to have little in >> common, but which appeal to lots of people who also like Zorn. Or is it >> just that EVERBODY likes Miles, Ornette, Waits, Beefheart? I dunno. > >Speaking of Waits, I noticed that probably the two albums of his that came >up the most were "Raindogs" and "Bone Machine". I haven't actually got any >of his albums, can someone describe these two to me? > At 04:08 PM 4/4/98 +1000, you wrote: >> What is fascinating (to me) is the way in which there is an overlap in >> taste between/among those of us who are Zorn fans. Lots of Waits, >> Beefheart, Ornette, Miles - things which would seem to have little in >> common, but which appeal to lots of people who also like Zorn. Or is it >> just that EVERBODY likes Miles, Ornette, Waits, Beefheart? I dunno. > >Speaking of Waits, I noticed that probably the two albums of his that came >up the most were "Raindogs" and "Bone Machine". I haven't actually got any >of his albums, can someone describe these two to me? > > Rain Dogs is probably his masterpiece, but there are others I would choose above Bone Machine. Frank's Wild Years has some wonderful stuff on it, and his older albums like Small Change are equally cool, even if they don't rely as much on odd instrumentations. The fact that he appears on so many of these lists isn't really shocking, considering that Greg Cohen is one of his most important collaborators. Ribot's playing on Rain Dogs (two times in one day, I gotta quit this) is phenomenal. I guess it only seems odd because in the end, Tom is most memorable for his lyrics and his voice, something I don't think too many of us would say about JZ. The music on Rain Dogs is pretty varied, but sticks to a "junkyard meets marimbas" kinda feel. Bone Machine never worked for me because the sound is so much more polished, even considering Joe Gore's wonderful guitar playing, and Brain's percussion fits (like "spasms", not "works"). Both of these albums hot the tunes that people like to heist for films, too, which might explain a little Zorn comparison: "Tango Til They're Sore" from Rain Dogs in Jim Jarmush's Down By Law, and "Earth Died Screaming" in Terry Gilliam's Twelve Monkeys. Good stuff, but most Beefheart fans I've talked to think he's just a watered down version. What I'm curious about is: with so much Beefheart and Waits being mentioned recently, do I have to be the first to bring up Screamin' Jay Hawkins? Rob DeNunzio Hi-Fi Mundo http://www.teleport.com/~hifim - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque <Dgasque@aol.com> Subject: Everyone's Top 20 lists Date: 04 Apr 1998 04:10:06 EST I also want to say thanks for all of the lists sent here for everyone to enjoy (well, almost everybody...) I went out and bought Don Cabellero 2, as it was on a bunch of lists. It's a great one, I must say. Anyone care to share more CDs in this "math rock" genre that DC have been cast into? Faith No More is also on the "to buy" list... =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Bargain Bins Date: 04 Apr 1998 07:07:38 -0500 At 08:26 PM 4/3/98 +0000, John McMahon wrote: > >In every good record store there is a bin which is filled with the >incoming stuff that is too weird, unpopular, unclassifiable, for the >owners to expect to make much money on. Or else it contains those items >which for whatever reason the industry has decided to delete, and get >rid of at a bargain price. Sadly, while this happened a lot in the vinyl days, I've had such little success since everything is CD that I've quit looking. Most of the bargain bins for CDs have bad 80s rock albums, never anything remotely worthwhile. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lucio <lukcyfer@interlink.com.ar> Subject: Re: 6 disappointments 6 Date: 04 Apr 1998 09:19:23 -0300 Julian wrote: I don't know about you, but I would prefer to hear Trey than Roddy any day. Lucio replies: What do Trey have to do with Roddy? Of course I prefer him to Jim Martin or Dean Menta but I don't know if I like the way he influenced the album. Star AD and Cookoo for Caca sound too much like Mr.Bungle, and the other tracks are just "normal" rock songs (Get Out for example). I know Jim was too lazy and didn't colaborate in the writing of many tracks but I miss Caffeine, The Real Thing, The Crab Song, As the Worm Turns, Midlife Crisis, etc. But it seems FNM has finally found it's guitarrist. If Hudson co-wrote "Stripsearch" as I heard he did, he then deserves to stay in the band for many more albums. Julian wrote: "God In My Bed" is fantastic, as is "Tuchus" (for a while at least). "In The Garden" is a great track too. I admit this track is more Ween than anything, but I like Ween as well anyway. But those first two are definitely riddled with the Boredoms influence. By the way, it's not Boredoms and Ween, it's Eye and Ween. The others from the Boredoms are just guests. Lucio replies: The problem with Z-Rock Hawaii is that it sounds like if Ween never met the Boredoms. I don't know if they recorded the album together but it looks like they didn't. Of course there are some good tracks in it, the same as in the Mollusk, but I was expecting them to give me something more (that's why they're disappointments. Because one knows they're good and have a lot to offer). Hey, the rest of the Boredoms aren't guests. The CD says "Z-Rock Hawaii are: Gene Ween, Dean Ween, Eye, Andrew Weiss, Yamamoto, Yoshimi, Coleman and Yoshikawa (only Hira and Atari aren't there). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: 6 disappointments 6 Date: 04 Apr 1998 22:24:02 +1000 > Hey, the rest of the Boredoms aren't > guests. The CD says "Z-Rock Hawaii are: Gene Ween, Dean Ween, Eye, Andrew > Weiss, Yamamoto, Yoshimi, Coleman and Yoshikawa (only Hira and Atari aren't > there). Oh ok, but mine says "Z-Rock Hawaii is Ween with Eye from the Boredoms". By the way, John Hudson sucks :) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com> Subject: Re: Marty Ehrlich Date: 04 Apr 1998 08:22:31 -0500 Keldon Drudge wrote: > his `urlicht' on winter & winter (compositions by mahler, featuring > dave > douglas, joey baron, uri caine, etc.) is great. > URLICHT is a CD on winter & winter by Uri Caine, not Marty Ehrlich. Alan Kayser - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Friedrich Feger <ffeger@gwdg.de> Subject: Disappointment: Boredoms Super Roots 5 Date: 04 Apr 1998 15:52:21 +0200 Some weeks ago I bought a whole bunch of CDs, some of them recommended by people on the list (that was the "best 97 release"- debate, not this "all time greatest"). One I bought and unpacked not until today is Boredoms Super Roots 5. I've never listened to a Boredoms record before, and I would like to know if the above mentioned is representative for the band. I mean there is five minutes of processed voice/instruments at the beginning, which sounds great, but has told it's story in one minute. Then someone shouts "Go!" and, as expected, it goes. 55 minutes more or less white noise (one or two further extremely expressive "go!"s indented) with hardly no detectable structural changes in it and hardly no dynamic differences. And it was expensive!! Do I have to approach the record like I have to approach Cage's 4'whatever''? Did I purchase something political *grin* or music? Super Roots 1 was on some top 20 lists, so how is it compared to 5? Fritz. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lucio <lukcyfer@interlink.com.ar> Subject: Re: 6 disappointments 6 Date: 04 Apr 1998 11:04:26 -0300 By the way, John Hudson sucks Why? 1- He plays all the tracks in the same way the old guitarrists did (Dean Menta couldn't do that) 2- He co-wrote many of the new songs (Jim Martin couldn't do so) 3- He tours (Trey didn't) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson <wlt4@mindspring.com> Subject: mail-order cut-outs Date: 04 Apr 1998 09:53:03 -0500 Does anybody know of mail-order sources for cut-outs? There were a couple a few years ago but one seems to have gone out of business and I've lost the catalog for the other. Lang Thompson http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4 New at Funhouse: Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan obituary. "No one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. Has even grown to like it." -- Zathras - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: 20 best shows (well, make it 10) Date: 04 Apr 1998 07:30:45 -0800 Codona at McCabes Don Cherry solo at McCabes Old and New Dreams at CalArts The Kool Jazz Festival in LA at various sites around town which in one week included: Art Ensemble of Chicago Lester Bowie (Great Pretender line-up) World Saxophone Quartet Anthony Braxton duo with Muhal Richard Abrams James Blood Ulmer Trio Laurie Anderson (United States Live) (!?) Roscoe Mitchell Ensemble Charlie Haden's Liberation Orchestra at CalArts John Carter Castles of Ghana Octet at Claremont Vinny Golia in all amnner of ensembles all over SoCalifornia - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: Top 20 disappointments Date: 04 Apr 1998 07:41:38 -0800 >[Artur Nowak] Hmmm... I love Frisell's solo work, especially Nonesuch >records. Please explain: What did you heard before Frisell's solo albums, >that made your expectations higher, then his solo works? Naked City? What >is better, than albums published under his own name? Bill Frisell Band? > :-) I can't explain it. Character defect perhaps (mine). Perhaps seeing him live was what really killed the recordings for me. I saw him in Santa Monica on the BEFORE WE WERE BORN tour and it remains tied for first with the absolutely GREATEST performances I have ever heard. I'm a HUGE Frisell fan. I just don't like his own recordings. It doesn't make any sense. I've traded in every Frisell CD I've ever purchased. I do love him with Berne ('Theoretically' and 'Fulton St. Maul') and Zorn and Bryars and Motian and that clarinetist whose name I'm blocking right now.................... Just ignore me. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Don Cab Date: 04 Apr 1998 11:04:49 -0500 (EST) On Wed, 1 Apr 1998, Landon Thorpe wrote: > Some passages seem like they must be improvised, but the > group performance is so tight that I wonder if they are. Can anyone shed > any light on this? I suppose that Storm & Stress, DC guitarist Ian T. > Williams' other band, might stand as an answer. Their music sounds like the > result one would get when applying the ideas of free improv to an electric > guitar/electric bass/drums lineup. That is, if their songs weren't each > thoroughly composed. Kinda weird. I haven't heard much Don Cab, but my impression from talking with Ian is that their pre-S&S material was very tightly composed. S&S, as I understand it, use composed motivic cells, which the players are free to interpret at any tempo and repeat as often as they like. Kevin Shea, their original drummer, had been playing aroung Pittsburgh with free music groups for some time before S&S formed. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dora Agiotis <stubb@globalserve.net> Subject: Victoriaville festival Date: 04 Apr 1998 11:24:23 -0500 Is anyone going to the Victoriaville Festival in Montreal, Canada this May? John Zorn is playing a couple of shows, as well as Mike Patton, Ikue Mori and others. stubb - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Bargain Bins; Other Lists Date: 04 Apr 1998 08:44:44 -0800 John McMahon writes: > What is fascinating (to me) is the way in which there is an overlap in > taste between/among those of us who are Zorn fans. Lots of Waits, > Beefheart, Ornette, Miles - things which would seem to have little in > common, but which appeal to lots of people who also like Zorn. I disagree, I think they have a great deal in common, the most basic thread being that they are maverick artists all working within American grown forms yet still keeping their work grounded in the most basic part of those forms. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "allen j huotari" <zmasada@email.msn.com> Subject: yet more 20 Date: 04 Apr 1998 08:32:19 +0100 it's really been cool seeing everyone else's lists so far (and a damned fine listening party we would have if the group mind could get together) here's my list, perhaps posted solely so that Henry Cow and Gerry Hemingway could be added to the statistics (both conspicuously absent from previously posted lists) ajh Henry Cow - Western Culture King Crimson - Great Deceiver Soft Machine - Peel Sessions Robert Wyatt - Rock Bottom Hatfield and the North - Rotters Club National Health - Of Queues and Cures Gilgamesh - Another Fine Tune Ornette Coleman - The Shape Of Jazz To Come Miles Davis - In A Silent Way Gerry Hemingway Quintet - Perfect World Tim Berne's Caos Totale - Nice View Henry Threadgill - Too Much Sugar For A Dime Bill Frisell - Where In the World ? Naked City - Naked City Portishead - Dummy Philip Glass - Einstein on the Beach Steve Reich - Music for 18 Musicians Olivier Messiaen - Et Especto Resurrectionem Mortuorum Le Mystere Des Voix Bulgares Vol. 1 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Bargain Bins Date: 04 Apr 1998 11:45:40 -0500 (EST) The other sad problem is that we're not living in the era of "budget labels". Go to any bargain basement outlet like those we all remember from our youth and instead of 99 cent Zoot Sims records on Dawn or Duke Ellington's A Drum Is A Woman on Columbia or Sun Ra At Montreux on Inner City, we'll see major label best-ofs and those odd labels that seem to specialize in strange "greatest hits" collections from artists who never had hits. I think it's part of the globalization of international capitalism, since many of these collections come from somewhere offshore. Without proper delete bins, from where will the future music-obsessives like ourselves be nutured? Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Sat, 4 Apr 1998, Caleb Deupree wrote: > At 08:26 PM 4/3/98 +0000, John McMahon wrote: > > > >In every good record store there is a bin which is filled with the > >incoming stuff that is too weird, unpopular, unclassifiable, for the > >owners to expect to make much money on. Or else it contains those items > >which for whatever reason the industry has decided to delete, and get > >rid of at a bargain price. > > Sadly, while this happened a lot in the vinyl days, I've had such little > success since everything is CD that I've quit looking. Most of the bargain > bins for CDs have bad 80s rock albums, never anything remotely worthwhile. > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Top 20 disappointments Date: 04 Apr 1998 08:59:16 -0800 Artur Nowak writes: > Hmmm... I love Frisell's solo work, especially Nonesuch > records. Please explain: What did you heard before Frisell's solo albums, > that made your expectations higher, then his solo works? Naked City? What > is better, than albums published under his own name? Bill Frisell Band? I agree, I think Frisell has made several excellent records as a leader, going all the way back to "Look Out For Hope." In fact, I'm write now listening to "Gone, Like A Train." In my head, I keep hearing it against the Power Tools trio from about 10 years ago, which highlights one of my great pleasures in listening; hearing an artist grow and change and mature and focus. People are always going to like certain periods of an artist's growth [Elvis Costello especially comes to mind here] but the artist is still, hopefully, going to change through time. And then there's Frisell's non-solo work. Sure, he's got the rock edge to things on Naked City and other "downtown" records, but there's also his long tenure in the Paul Motian Trio, the Bass Desires records, etc. He's been malleable, in a good way, for a long time now, so I'd be hard pressed to define a non-solo style that is monolithic enough to compare everything against. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: Bargain Bins Date: 04 Apr 1998 08:49:15 -0800 >Without proper delete bins, from where will the future music-obsessives like >ourselves be nutured? > >Ken Waxman Implants. In our lifetimes. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "PETSITTER" <PETSITTER@prodigy.net> Subject: Top 10 Zorn CD's Date: 03 Apr 1998 23:21:24 -0600 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BD5F57.386860C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Since everyone's having such a good time with the top 20 list, why = not start a top 10 Zorn list? Not many Zorn CD's have been mentioned = any ways. If anyone is interested they should prob. have at least 20 = Zorn related CD's and could list individual CD's from multi disk sets. = How about it? ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BD5F57.386860C0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.71.2016.0"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2> <FONT = color=3D#000000>Since=20 everyone's having such a good time with the top 20 list, why not start a = top 10=20 Zorn list? Not many Zorn CD's have been mentioned any ways. = If=20 anyone is interested they should prob. have at least 20 Zorn related = CD's and=20 could list individual CD's from multi disk sets. How about=20 it?</FONT></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BD5F57.386860C0-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Newgarden <dn@panix.com> Subject: NYC Broadcast of THE ART OF REMEMBRANCE Date: 04 Apr 1998 13:29:54 -0500 (EST) The documentary film THE ART OF REMEMBRANCE - SIMON WIESENTHAL will air on WNET/Channel Thirteen (New York) on Thursday April 23, 1998, at 10:00 p.m. (original music by Zorn (Bar Kokhba) Don't know if this is being aired on any other PBS affiliates...um..check your local listings... For further information about the film: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/RLP ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com> Subject: Re: Disappointment: Boredoms Super Roots 5 Date: 04 Apr 1998 10:32:23 -0800 (PST) On Sat, 4 Apr 1998, Friedrich Feger wrote: > Some weeks ago I bought a whole bunch of CDs, some of them recommended by > people on the list (that was the "best 97 release"- debate, not this "all > time greatest"). One I bought and unpacked not until today is Boredoms > Super Roots 5. I've never listened to a Boredoms record before, and I would > like to know if the above mentioned is representative for the band. I mean no, the "Super Roots" EPs have evolved into a way for Boredoms to experiment outside of the alterna rawk niche that they have been boxed into. your best bet is to try out "Pop Tatari" and then work your way around. > there is five minutes of processed voice/instruments at the beginning, > which sounds great, but has told it's story in one minute. Then someone > shouts "Go!" and, as expected, it goes. 55 minutes more or less white noise uh, that's the sound of two drummers hitting the cymbols on full throttle. with a little bass, guitar and synth drone washing over it. if you listen carefully, you can hear multiple layers of the cymbols being brought in gradually as it progresses and then later pulled out. it's very subtle. i quite like it, but i don't hear any white noise. your mileage may vary. hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave" <torturegarden@mailexcite.com> Subject: Top 20 Date: 04 Apr 1998 10:51:35 -0700 In no particular order: 1. Ornette Coleman - The Shape of Jazz to Come 2. Cecil Taylor - Praxis 3. Hampton Grease Band - Music To Eat 4. Talking Heads - Remain In Light 5. Miles Davis - Bitches Brew 6. R.E.M. - Murmur 7. U2 - War 8. Charles Mingus - Mingus Presents Mingus 9. Zorn / Naked City - Torture Garden 10. Esquivel - Space Age Bachelor Pad Music 11. Dick Dale - Unknown Territory 12. The Beatles - Revolver 13. Johnny Cash - American Recordings 14. Frank Zappa - Weasels Ripped My Flesh 15. King Crimson - Discipline 16. Jefferson Airplane - Surrealistic Pillow 17. The Velvet Underground - Velvet Underground & Nico 18. Peter Gabriel - S/T (Mercury) 19. Kronos Quartet - Early Music 20. MMW - Friday Afternoon in the Universe Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Sainkho Date: 04 Apr 1998 13:22:32 -0500 I have recently been digging Sainkho Namchylak's music and was wondering what else is out there I don't know about. I have her duo with Evan Parker on Victo, a disc w/MCO called 'Let Permesky Dream' and her FMP solo disc. I know of 'Letters' on Leo, another MCO, a duo w/Rothenberg and a disc with Werner Ludi, Butch Morris & Peter Kowald. What else is out there????? -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Bramy <tbramy@oz.net> Subject: Ken Nordine Date: 04 Apr 1998 11:00:25 -0800 (PST) >Here's my 20 albums, no specific order.. > >11. Ken Nordine - The Best of Word Jazz Volume 1 (if anyone knows anything >about this guy, besides his other album, Colors, or his radio show, please >tell me) I LOVE this guy. I discovered him nestled in my Grandfather's record collection several years ago and while I have meant to buy some of his other recordings, all I have is a tape of that record. It's called "How Are Things In Your Town" 1960 Blue Thumb Records 2 LP set. The only other instances of him I have are on two Hal Wilner compilation/tribute projects: "Stay Awake" - the Disney Tribute; and "Closed on Account of Rabies" - the Edgar Allen Poe Tribute. Now I have a question: radio show? Todd - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Victoriaville festival Date: 04 Apr 1998 11:36:56 -0800 On Sat, 04 Apr 1998 11:24:23 -0500 Dora Agiotis wrote: > > Is anyone going to the Victoriaville Festival in Montreal, Canada this May? > John Zorn is playing a couple of shows, as well as Mike Patton, Ikue Mori and > others. I do. After ten years on using flaky excuses, I decided to take the jump (it is also true that the program is hard to beat). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Bargain Bins Date: 04 Apr 1998 14:29:10 -0500 Caleb Deupree wrote: > Sadly, while this happened a lot in the vinyl days, I've had such little > success since everything is CD that I've quit looking. Most of the bargain > bins for CDs have bad 80s rock albums, never anything remotely worthwhile. Last week alone I picked up Anthony Davis's "X", a John Carter disc, a Cypher 7 disc, Orbital, Jon Hassell, Cecil Taylor, Rapoon, and Artists United against Apartheid, all for under $8 apiece. Not a sorry stack of "bad 80s rock albums", hmm? And the bins here in DC are, for the most part, *pathetic* compared the amazing stuff that's to be found in the bins in Austin and Dallas... -- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Starlowski <Starlowski@aol.com> Subject: Top 10 for me... Date: 04 Apr 1998 15:26:06 EST Here are mine, in no particular order: Keith Jarrett....... The K=F6ln Concert=09 The Cheiftains.... Long Black Veil Zorn ........................ Big Gundown Frisell.................... Nashville Rostropovich....... Bach Cello Suites Sonny Rollins...... Saxophone Colossus J. Coltrane........... Ascension Bj=F6rk...................... Homogenic Marta Sebestyen... Kismet Miles.......................... anything before the 1980s (+4... Sun Ra............ The Singles..... Chemical Bros..... Dig Your O= wn=0AHole.... anything by Earl Hooker or SRV-- except Soul to Soul)=0A - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: Bargain Bins Date: 04 Apr 1998 15:00:26 -0500 Joseph Zitt wrote: > > Caleb Deupree wrote: > > > Sadly, while this happened a lot in the vinyl days, I've had such little > > success since everything is CD that I've quit looking. Most of the bargain > > bins for CDs have bad 80s rock albums, never anything remotely worthwhile. > > Last week alone I picked up Anthony Davis's "X", a John Carter disc, > a Cypher 7 disc, Orbital, Jon Hassell, Cecil Taylor, Rapoon, and > Artists United against Apartheid, all for under $8 apiece. Not a sorry > stack of "bad 80s rock albums", hmm? And the bins here in DC are, for > the most part, *pathetic* compared the amazing stuff that's to be found > in the bins in Austin and Dallas... I live in Portland, ME and in the last few weeks I've bought on vinyl stuff by Henry Threadgill Sextett, Walt Dickerson, Tim Berne, Hank Roberts, Music Improvisation Company (w/Bailey, Parker, etc.), Butch Morris, Phillipine Gong Music, Steve Reich, "Blood" Ulmer, etc. All for very cheap (Ulmer's 'Odyssey' was $1) AND THIS IS MAINE!!!! -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joshua A Miller <umillj08@mcl.ucsb.edu> Subject: santa barbara noise festival Date: 04 Apr 1998 12:41:25 -0800 (PST) sorry for such short notice for this, but- for those of you in southern california (i know there's at least a few...), the santa barbara noise festival is happening this week, april 7-9. and although this isn't quite the area where one would expect a noise festival to take place, here it is anyway. tues, april 7 lots of live bands (including my own improv noise band) at- NYM, 1117 state st., downtown santa barbara (805) 9656281 21+ wed, april 8 digital zone EAT lab room 2220, arts building, UCSB thurs, april 9 broadcast outreach tune in to KCSB, 91.9 fm i'm not sure about times for anything, but for more info you can check out the web page- http://arts.ucsb.edu/~noise, or email noise@arts.ucsb.edu hopefully we can manage to get some people in the audience aside from the other performers... josh - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Caulfield Bivins <jbivins@indiana.edu> Date: 04 Apr 1998 15:42:48 -0500 (EST) Sorry to be coming in at the tail end of this tide, but I can't resist a good list. Here are my 20, in random order: Miles Davis, "In a Silent Way" Tom Waits, "Frank's Wild Years" John Coltrane, "Live at Birdland" James Brown, "Live at the Apollo 1967" Charles Gayle, "Touchin' On Trane" King Crimson, "Red" Sam Rivers, "Dimensions and Extensions" Charles Mingus, "Presents Charles Mingus" Joe McPhee, "Oleo and a Future Retrospective" Ornette Coleman, "Beauty is a Rare Thing" Hans Reichel, "The Death of the Rare Bird Ymir/Bonobo Beach" Nels Cline, "Chest" Oliver Lake, "Zaki" Anthony Braxton, "Willisau (1991) Quartet" Jimi Hendrix, "Band of Gypsys" Tony Williams Lifetime, "Emergency" Mahavishnu Orchestra, "Inner Mounting Flame" Funkadelic, "Let's Take it to the Stage" Bobby Previte, "Too Close to the Pole" Bill Frisell, "Where in the World?" Much overlap with other lists. And like so many others, there are a lot of artists who take up considerable space on the shelves (Taylor, Zorn, etc.) who don't make it here. I've enjoyed reading everyone's lists, especially curveballs like Yes or Portishead -- isn't this sort of eclecticism what draws us all to Mr. Z? At any rate, let me weigh in a bit earlier with the live stuff (albeit fewer than 20). Max Roach solo in Tompkins Square Park 1996 Kronos Quartet at Oberlin College 1989 Bloodcount in Chicago 1997 Fugazi at St. Stephen's Church, D.C. 1991 Sonny Sharrock at 9:30 Club, D.C. 1992 Steve Lacy at Unity Temple, Oak Park 1997 Bill Frisell at Wolftrap, Virginia 1992 Evan Parker at the Vortex, London 1996 What fun! Jason Bivins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brandt Gebhardt <gebhardt.2@osu.edu> Subject: RE: Everyone's Top 20 lists Date: 04 Apr 1998 16:25:57 -0500 I have seen the term "math rock" applied to only two bands: Honor Role = and Slint. Album on Merge compiles two Honor Role LPs and three 7"s. = Slint has two LPs, Tweez and Spiderland, and a two song untitled EP on = Touch and Go. I consider Slint the better of the two bands and = Spiderland their best work. While an endorsement claimed that Honor = Role is the band responsible for "math rock," I would suggest that = Squirrel Bait is the great "proto-math-rock" combo. Their two = recordings have been re-released by Dexter's Cigar. After Squirrel = Bait, Brian McMahan became Slint's vocalist/guitarist, and David Grubbs = and Clark Johnson formed Bastro with John McEntire. The only Bastro = album I have is Diablo Guapo on Homestead, but I consider it to be in = the "math-rock" genre. Judging from their Pravda release Not a Food, = Cheer-Accident is a band that shares Don Caballero's proclivity for = rhythmic complexity and vocal economy. Finally, I would recommend = Dazzling Killmen, described as "prog-rock hardcore," and Yona-Kit, = featuring K.K. Null and Jim O'Rourke. Both bands have releases on Skin = Graft. Brandt Gebhardt Gebhardt.2@osu.edu ---------- Sent: Saturday, April 04, 1998 4:10 AM I also want to say thanks for all of the lists sent here for everyone to = enjoy (well, almost everybody...) I went out and bought Don Cabellero 2, as it was on a bunch of lists. = It's a great one, I must say. Anyone care to share more CDs in this "math = rock" genre that DC have been cast into? Faith No More is also on the "to buy" list... =3Ddgasque=3D - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: gsg@juno.com (Geoff S Gersh) Subject: Cut Outs Date: 04 Apr 1998 17:39:21 EST theres a cutout house located in New Jersey called Scorpio Music. I think their email address is: scorpiomus@aol.com the last catalog i got from them had some good stuff in it....Miles, Laswell, Zappa, etc etc......the minimum order is $100. G. Gersh _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FUNKADELlC <FUNKADELlC@aol.com> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #301 Date: 04 Apr 1998 17:04:19 EST In a message dated 98-04-04 09:40:12 EST, you write: << Speaking of Waits, I noticed that probably the two albums of his that came up the most were "Raindogs" and "Bone Machine". >> Raindogs was his first outing in his so called "expiramental" period.. you see.. for the majority of the 70's and early 80's Tom had a real "im a drunk jazzy, beat generation guy" image and he really stuck to that.. until raindogs.. i guess i can describe it as dark sounding with weird precussion. alot of it reminds me of old italian or french film music in a way... Bone Machine seems like its just an extension of that... but newer.. Personally my favorite Waits releases are his follow ups to Rain Dogs, SWORDFISHTROMBONE and the beautiful soundtrack to his play FRANK'S WILD YEARS... just my .02 -cory sklar - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fate@telepath.com (Jon Mooneyham) Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #301 Date: 04 Apr 1998 16:47:39 -0600 >In a message dated 98-04-04 09:40:12 EST, you write: > >Raindogs was his first outing in his so called "expiramental" period.. > >Personally my >favorite Waits releases are his follow ups to Rain Dogs, SWORDFISHTROMBONE and >the beautiful soundtrack to his play FRANK'S WILD YEARS... just my .02 >-cory sklar > Swordfishtrombones was the first in Waits' then-new more whacked approach, not Raindogs... Jon M. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Sainkho Date: 04 Apr 1998 17:59:10 -0500 (EST) There's one on Leo with the Moscow Composers Orchestra, and I think yet another with an orchestra on that label. Check Leo's Web site: http://www.atlas.co.uk/leorecords/ Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Sat, 4 Apr 1998, Tom Pratt wrote: > I have recently been digging Sainkho Namchylak's music and was wondering > what else is out there I don't know about. I have her duo with Evan > Parker on Victo, a disc w/MCO called 'Let Permesky Dream' and her FMP > solo disc. I know of 'Letters' on Leo, another MCO, a duo w/Rothenberg > and a disc with Werner Ludi, Butch Morris & Peter Kowald. What else is > out there????? > > -Tom Pratt > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com> Subject: RE: Everyone's Top 20 lists Date: 04 Apr 1998 15:20:44 -0800 (PST) On Sat, 4 Apr 1998, Brandt Gebhardt wrote: > I have seen the term "math rock" applied to only two bands: Honor > Role and Slint. Album on Merge compiles two Honor Role LPs and three strange! Atavistic released compilation of "math rock" music last year and it included bands like Quintron, Scissor Girls, Math and other related artists, mostly from Chicago and often associated with the Bulb label. i was always under the impression that this kind of second wave of "no wave" music was math rock. if Honor Role started the term, how did it come about? what's the meaning? what's the determining characteristics of math rock? hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: 6 disappointments 6 Date: 05 Apr 1998 09:29:39 +1000 > By the way, John Hudson sucks > > Why? > 1- He plays all the tracks in the same way the old guitarrists did (Dean > Menta couldn't do that) > 2- He co-wrote many of the new songs (Jim Martin couldn't do so) > 3- He tours (Trey didn't) If you need to go through a checklist to tell you whether someone's good or not, you're probably not understanding me. I don't like his playing, okay? (Can I get any clearer than this?) I agree that Stripsearch is a great song, but they needed a whole album full of songs that good. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lucio <lukcyfer@interlink.com.ar> Subject: Re: 6 disappointments 6 Date: 04 Apr 1998 22:02:09 -0300 By the way, John Hudson sucks If you need to go through a checklist to tell you whether someone's good or not, you're probably not understanding me. I don't like his playing, okay? (Can I get any clearer than this?) I agree that Stripsearch is a great song, but they needed a whole album full of songs that good. Let's give an end to this because we'll never agree in this point. Although "Album of the Year" is far from being my favourite FNM album I think there are some great tracks in it (Helpless, Last Cup of Sorrow, She Loves Me Not, Stripsearch and Ashes to Ashes). In my first mail I said that if any of you had some good arguments you might convince me to give KFAD another listen. That's why I couldn't accept just a "John Hudson sucks" as an answer. But that's it, let's finish with this (I even like Trey's stuff a lot, specially his work with Mr.Bungle and Secret Chiefs 3- I just didn't like him for FNM) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque <Dgasque@aol.com> Subject: Nels Cline Q... Date: 04 Apr 1998 20:11:14 EST I was listening to Gogaga Internet Radio a few months ago and heard a Nels Cline cut that was more musique concrete-sounding than his usual jazz/rock/noise ventures. Anyone know what CD this might have been from? =dagsque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Uncle Meat <jf.lamarre@sympatico.ca> Subject: Perfect album? Date: 04 Apr 1998 20:13:38 -0500 Now that we know what everybody would bring on a desert island, maybe it would be great to ask ourselves if such a thing as a perfect album exists. I don't know about you, but i don't see anything coming even close in my own collection (i've got around 1100 of them). ... well maybe Zappa's L=E4ther Uncle Meat This idea was nice: What are you listening to right now? When i started this letter.....Off Minor (Thelonious Monk with John Coltrane) Now.....I've go my mojo working (The Zombies) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Given <dlgiven@julian.uwo.ca> Subject: Disappointment/Frisell Date: 04 Apr 1998 20:22:46 +0100 >"Keith McMullen" wrote >Subject: Re: Top 20 disappointments >>[Artur Nowak] Hmmm... I love Frisell's solo work, especially Nonesuch >>records. Please explain: What did you heard before Frisell's solo albums, >>that made your expectations higher, then his solo works? Naked City? What >>is better, than albums published under his own name? Bill Frisell Band? >I can't explain it. Character defect perhaps (mine). Perhaps seeing him live >was what really killed the recordings for me. I saw him in Santa Monica on >the BEFORE WE WERE BORN tour and it remains tied for first with the >absolutely GREATEST performances I have ever heard. I'm a HUGE Frisell fan. >I just don't like his own recordings. It doesn't make any sense. I've traded >in every Frisell CD I've ever purchased. I do love him with Berne >('Theoretically' and 'Fulton St. Maul') and Zorn and Bryars and Motian and >that clarinetist whose name I'm blocking right now.................... >Just ignore me. Keith, just so you know you are not alone, I too really dislike Frisell's albums. Dumped every one of them I have bought. I to like his work with Naked City, the Paul Motian trio stuff, and I assume the clarinetist thing you mention above is his playing on Don Byron's Tuskegee Experiments, which is a great album. I don't like Theoretically though. The only Berne album I've traded in. Sounded to me like new age twaddle (I'm gonna get flamed.) There's something about Frisell's choice of material and combined with style that just bore me to death. His album with the John Hiatt song, the Madonna one, etc was, to my ears, bad elevator music. The only one I regret not keeping, just so I could give it another chance, is an early Nonesuch album, with a long track arranged by Zorn, can't remember the name of the album. I think I have managed to put his own album into some back part of my memory, where I try to keep them hidden so it doesn't sour my opinion of his other work. Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Uncle Meat <jf.lamarre@sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: Victoriaville festival Date: 04 Apr 1998 20:03:58 -0500 Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > On Sat, 04 Apr 1998 11:24:23 -0500 Dora Agiotis wrote: > > > > Is anyone going to the Victoriaville Festival in Montreal, Canada > this May? > > John Zorn is playing a couple of shows, as well as Mike Patton, Ikue > Mori and > > others. > > I do. After ten years on using flaky excuses, I decided to take the > jump (it > is also true that the program is hard to beat). > > Patrice. > > -I do too. Just like M. Rousell, this will be my first attendance at > this festival. For me it's not really a big problem to get there: i > live just an hour an a half from there. It's on this list that > someone made me realize that the ticket were in sale. The next > morning, i bought the tickets for four shows (wich gives you a 15% > discount). I'll ge going to see: -John Zorn - Modern Chamber Music-Rene Lussier - Solo -Mike Patton - New works for ensemble & voyeur -Ikue Mori-Mike Patton-John Zorn (a show that i first saw on the knit's real player cam, because i don't have the chance like some of you to live in New-York) I some of you are going to the festival, maybe it would be great to meet those with whom we spend some time every day. Uncle Meat - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob DeNunzio <zorn@gladstone.uoregon.edu> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #301 Date: 04 Apr 1998 18:06:47 -0800 Personally my >favorite Waits releases are his follow ups to Rain Dogs, SWORDFISHTROMBONE and >the beautiful soundtrack to his play FRANK'S WILD YEARS... just my .02 >-cory sklar > I can't belive I omitted Swordfistrombone. I think I also may have misattributed some songs off it to Rain Dogs since I didn't have the discs nearby. Those two albums have always seemed completely linked together for me - I could never listen to one without following it up with the other. I hope I didn't create any confusion. Rob DeNunzio Hi-Fi Mundo http://www.teleport.com/~hifim - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob DeNunzio <zorn@gladstone.uoregon.edu> Subject: Re: Ken Nordine Date: 04 Apr 1998 18:11:13 -0800 At 11:00 AM 4/4/98 -0800, Todd Bramy wrote: >>Here's my 20 albums, no specific order.. >> >>11. Ken Nordine - The Best of Word Jazz Volume 1 (if anyone knows anything >>about this guy, besides his other album, Colors, or his radio show, please >>tell me) > >I LOVE this guy. I discovered him nestled in my Grandfather's record >collection several years ago and while I have meant to buy some of his >other recordings, all I have is a tape of that record. It's called "How Are >Things In Your Town" 1960 Blue Thumb Records 2 LP set. > >The only other instances of him I have are on two Hal Wilner >compilation/tribute projects: "Stay Awake" - the Disney Tribute; and >"Closed on Account of Rabies" - the Edgar Allen Poe Tribute. > >Now I have a question: radio show? > >Todd > At 11:00 AM 4/4/98 -0800, you wrote: >>Here's my 20 albums, no specific order.. >> >>11. Ken Nordine - The Best of Word Jazz Volume 1 (if anyone knows anything >>about this guy, besides his other album, Colors, or his radio show, please >>tell me) > >I LOVE this guy. I discovered him nestled in my Grandfather's record >collection several years ago and while I have meant to buy some of his >other recordings, all I have is a tape of that record. It's called "How Are >Things In Your Town" 1960 Blue Thumb Records 2 LP set. > >The only other instances of him I have are on two Hal Wilner >compilation/tribute projects: "Stay Awake" - the Disney Tribute; and >"Closed on Account of Rabies" - the Edgar Allen Poe Tribute. > >Now I have a question: radio show? > >Todd > The only Ken Nordine I've heard is off the Beat Generation box set - what're people's thoughts on his different recordings? Any distinctly good collections? Rob DeNunzio Hi-Fi Mundo http://www.teleport.com/~hifim - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jan-Wen Lu <janwenlu@top2.ficnet.net.tw> Subject: Re: Sainkho Date: 05 Apr 1998 11:05:38 +0800 > I have recently been digging Sainkho Namchylak's music and was > wondering > what else is out there I don't know about. I have her duo with Evan > Parker on Victo, a disc w/MCO called 'Let Permesky Dream' and her FMP > solo disc. I know of 'Letters' on Leo, another MCO, a duo w/Rothenberg > > and a disc with Werner Ludi, Butch Morris & Peter Kowald. What else is > > out there????? > > -Tom Pratt > Sainkho is a truly amazing voclaist. Please check the following web site for her items: http://www.avantart.com/music/sainkho/sainkhom.html/ I believe there are more items that she joins as guest. Jan-Wen Lu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Sainkho Date: 04 Apr 1998 22:10:13 -0500 At 01:22 PM 4/4/98 -0500, Tom Pratt wrote: >I have recently been digging Sainkho Namchylak's music and was wondering >what else is out there I don't know about. I have her duo with Evan >Parker on Victo, a disc w/MCO called 'Let Permesky Dream' and her FMP >solo disc. I know of 'Letters' on Leo, another MCO, a duo w/Rothenberg >and a disc with Werner Ludi, Butch Morris & Peter Kowald. What else is >out there????? I've got an album by her on Crammed, Out of Tuva, which is a compilation of her work from traditional folk songs recorded starting in 1986 in Tuva, through her more pop-oriented work with Hector Zazou and Vincent Kenis in Europe in 1993. A fair amount of variety, but all much more straight and traditional than anything I imagine in the list you describe (none of which I've heard). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen drury <stevedrury@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Rzewski Date: 05 Apr 1998 00:01:50 -0500 >Date: Fri, 03 Apr 1998 20:27:37 -0500 >From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> >Subject: Rzewski Birthday Concert > >In celebration of Rzewski's 60th birthday, the Kitchen (NYC) is hosting >three concerts devoted to his music April 16-18. Among the performers >will be Anthony de Mere, Aki Takahashi and our own Steven Drury. > >Mr. Drury, would you be kind enough to let us in on the specific >programs for these three days? > Yo! only problem is, I only know that I'm playing on April 17, "The People United" variations. I believe Tony DeMare is also playing that day, the "Piano Piece #4" with monster repeated notes. Does the Kitchen have a web site? -- steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: frenesi <frenesi@ix.netcom.com> Subject: top 20 lists Date: 05 Apr 1998 01:05:37 -0800 have to say, im really disappointed in y'all.... not once, havning gone half blind from reading all these lists, (and enjoying everyminute of it!!) have i seen mentioned one of the greatest discs of all time.... <<mainstream>> by quiet sun z. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: top 20 lists Date: 05 Apr 1998 16:06:52 +1000 > have to say, im really disappointed in y'all.... > > not once, havning gone half blind from reading all these lists, (and > enjoying everyminute of it!!) have i seen mentioned one of the greatest > discs of all time.... > > <<mainstream>> by quiet sun haven't seen Michael Bolton's "Secret Passion" (or whatever it was) either... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: frenesi <frenesi@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: top 20 lists Date: 05 Apr 1998 03:36:57 -0700 Julian wrote: > haven't seen Michael Bolton's "Secret Passion" (or whatever it was) > either... not to mention...michael jackson's "thriller"... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@UVic.CA> Subject: top 20 Date: 04 Apr 1998 23:21:59 -0800 (PST) Cage, Monk (Tony de Mare): Pianos and Voices Arvo Part (Jarvi conducting): 3 Symphonies/Cello Concerto/Pro e Contra New York Composers Orchestra: First Program in Standard Time Zorn/Frisell/Lewis: News for Lulu Zorn: Naked City Zorn: Bar Kokhba Marty Ehrlich: Traveller's Tale Kletka Red: Hijacking Mr. Bungle: DV or s/t - can't decide Miles Davis: Kind of Blue John Coltrane: Africa/Brass Pixies: Bossanova Tool: Aenima Pantera: Vulgar Display of Power (for Doug!) Danzig: s/t Jimi Hendrix: Jimi Plays Monterey John Frusciante: Niandre Lades/Usually Just a T-shirt Me Mom & Morgantaler: Shiva Space Machine SNFU: ...And No One Else Wanted To Play Sunny Day Real Estate: Diary Cappy D'Angelo Student at Law - Intellectual Property Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion Victoria, B.C., CANADA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Don Byron Date: 05 Apr 1998 03:46:00 -0400 (EDT) Speaking of Don Byron, since he was mentioned on the last list, does anyone know when he will have something new out? It's strange, but he only has two albums of original stuff, plus 2 cover albums and 1 live album, in 7-8 years. Maybe he's too involved in political stuff. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque <Dgasque@aol.com> Subject: Re: Don Cab Date: 05 Apr 1998 05:09:58 EDT In a message dated 98-04-04 11:08:41 EST, you write: << > Some passages seem like they must be improvised, but the > group performance is so tight that I wonder if they are. Can anyone shed > any light on this? I suppose that Storm & Stress, DC guitarist Ian T. > Williams' other band, might stand as an answer. Their music sounds like the > result one would get when applying the ideas of free improv to an electric > guitar/electric bass/drums lineup. That is, if their songs weren't each > thoroughly composed. Kinda weird. I haven't heard much Don Cab, but my impression from talking with Ian is that their pre-S&S material was very tightly composed. S&S, as I understand it, use composed motivic cells, which the players are free to interpret at any tempo and repeat as often as they like. Kevin Shea, their original drummer, had been playing aroung Pittsburgh with free music groups for some time before S&S formed. >> Any of this Storm and Stress material available on CD? =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque <Dgasque@aol.com> Subject: Re: Ken Nordine Date: 05 Apr 1998 05:10:01 EDT In a message dated 98-04-04 21:11:13 EST, you write: << The only Ken Nordine I've heard is off the Beat Generation box set - what're people's thoughts on his different recordings? Any distinctly good collections? >> Look for his LPs/CDs with backup by the Fred Katz Group- by far better than his later output. Speaking of the Fred Katz Group, his ensemble is featured in the soundtrack of a 50's movie about a plant that ate people- later remade featuring Rick Moranis in the starring role. Never can remember the name of it though... =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Matsumoto <wedge@slip.net> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #281 Date: 05 Apr 1998 01:34:52 -0800 (PST) >From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> >Subject: West Coast (US) tour of Fred Frith? > >Does anybody know if Frith will really tour on the West Coast in the >near future? I remember reading about a tour with Larry Ochs and >Miyaka Masaoka. > > Patrice. Apparently he's playing the DuMaruier International Jazz & Blues Festival in Vancouver, B.C., in late June, then coming down to California (yay). That's all I know - i pulled it from www.fredfrith.com. The site does mention the tour with Masaoka and Ochs, but it's got only two dates: the Vancouver thing and a visit to Yoshi's in Oakland. -- craig - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ben Wallace <carcass@uclink.berkeley.edu> Subject: late top 20 and others Date: 05 Apr 1998 03:38:10 -0700 (PDT) my top 20 records, in no particular order: OLD - The Musical Dimensions of Sleastak Neurosis - Souls at Zero Godflesh - Selfless Disembowelment - Transcendence into the Peripheral Into Another - Ignaurus Painkiller - Buried Secrets Napalm Death - Utopia Banished Carcass - Tools of the Trad Brutal Truth - Need to Control Miles Davis - Get up with It Final - One Rapoon - Errant Angels Anathema - The Silent Enigma GOD - Anatomy of Addiction Skullflower - IIIrd Gatekeeper Faith No More - King For a Day...Fool for a Lifetime Last Exit - Last Exit Milk Cult - Love God Fushitsusha - Purple Trap Best Live Shows: Painkiller - Slims, San Francisco 1995 Buckethead - Slims, San Francisco 1997 Zorn/Ruins - Knitting Factory, NY 1997 Sonic Youth - Cooler, NY 1997 Man is the Bastard - Gilman St, Berkeley 1995 Merzbow - a wherehouse, Oakland 1996 Trouble, Cathedral - Berkeley Square, Berkeley 1996 Brutal Truth, Pain Teens, Boredoms - One Step Beyond, Santa Clara, CA 1993 Paradise Lost - Stone, SF 1993 Crash Worship - Berkeley Square, Berkeley 1995 Fushitsusha - Great American Music Hall, SF 1996 Neurosis - Gilman St., Berkeley 1995 Ben Wallace carcass@uclink.berkeley.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com> Subject: Re: Don Byron Date: 05 Apr 1998 09:59:30 -0400 William York wrote: > Speaking of Don Byron, since he was mentioned on the last list, does > anyone know when he will have something new out? It's strange, but he > > only has two albums of original stuff, plus 2 cover albums and 1 live > album, in 7-8 years. Maybe he's too involved in political stuff. Any > > help would be appreciated. Thanks. > > - During a conversation with Uri Caine he mentioned that he had done some work on the next Don Byron recording. Are you ready for this...covers of War and Mandrill tunes!!! That was about six months ago and so far nothing has come out. Don is quite a character. He has been doing tours with Six Musicians and Bug Music. Alan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phil Plencner <plencner@lnd.com> Subject: Re: Top 20 Albums Date: 05 Apr 1998 11:13:09 -0500 With a "better late than never" mentality, as well as making this an ample opportunity to start posting to this list, here is my top 20 albums: Frank Zappa - Lather Zappa - Weasles Ripped My Flesh The Residents - Duck Stab/Buster & Glen John Spencer Blues Explosion - Now I Got Worry John Zorn - Spillaine Zorn - Naked City Bob Dylan - The Freewheeling... Ozric Tentacles - Jurrasic Shift Buddy Rich & Gene Krupa - Krupa & Rich Capt. Beefheart - Trout Mask Replica Jimi Hendrix - Axis: Bold As Love The Police - Ghost In The Machine Vinnie Colaiuta - Vinnie Colaiuta "Cannonball" Adderly - Something Else Funkadelic - Maggot Brain Charlie Hunter Trio - Bing Bing Bing! King Crimson - Larks Tongue In Aspic Rush - 2112 John Coltrane - The Complete Africa/Brass Sessions Les Claypool & The Holy Mackerel - Highball With The Devil This list of course comes with the disclaimer that the list is in a constant state of flux. Latre, Phil - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francisca" <monsalve@interaccess.cl> Subject: RV: Art Ensemble of Chicago Date: 05 Apr 1998 12:35:32 -0400 Many of you have mentioned the Art Ensemble of Chicago in your Top 20 lists. I have been meaning to buy their albums for a long time now but I have always held make, not knowing which are considered to be their best recordings. Some of you mentioned albums released by ECM: do these albums suffer from ECM's questionable, smooth (read: nauseating) production values? I do own a couple of ECM releases, and although the music is great (Rypdal, Godard & Parker/Phillips/Bley), I'd be hard-pressed to order any other records by this label. The other albums you mention are on Nessa; I know they released a box set some years ago. So, what would you recommend a finicky music-lover who prefers her jazz rough and earthy? I'd really appreciate some suggestions. Thank you. Francisca Monsalve@interaccess.cl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Don Byron Date: 05 Apr 1998 14:03:53 -0400 (EDT) The Canadian big (jazz) band NOJO -- Neufeld Occipinti Jazz Orchestra had Byron here in Toronto as a guest soloist earlier this year and will do so again sometime in late spring/early summer. That will probably be when the NOJO CD featuring Byron is released. I figure it'll be on Auracle, the band's own label. The group is a post-bop, modern mainstream group that certainly cuts any group like Maria Schneider's IMHO. Cadence/North Country carries NOJO CDs. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, William York wrote: > Speaking of Don Byron, since he was mentioned on the last list, does > anyone know when he will have something new out? It's strange, but he > only has two albums of original stuff, plus 2 cover albums and 1 live > album, in 7-8 years. Maybe he's too involved in political stuff. Any > help would be appreciated. Thanks. > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: RV: Art Ensemble of Chicago Date: 05 Apr 1998 14:16:34 -0400 (EDT) Outside of a couple of Old & New Dreams and Dewey Redman albums, the Art Ensemble has the only stuff on ECM that isn't a replacement for sleeping pills. A good place to start (and I apologize in advance if some don't exist because I'm working fron my vinyl copies) is: Full Force (ECM 1-1167) Nice Guys (ECM 1-1126) Urban Bushman (ECM 2-1211) I'd also recommend checking out Lester Bowie's "The Great Pretender" (ECM 1-1209), featuring Bowie on trumpet, the late Philip Wilson on drums, and on some tracks Hamiet Bluiett (baritone saxophone) and David Peaston and Fontella Bass on vocals. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, Francisca wrote: > > > Many of you have mentioned the Art Ensemble of Chicago in your Top 20 > lists. I have been meaning to buy their albums for a long time now but I > have always held make, not knowing which are considered to be their best > recordings. Some of you mentioned albums released by ECM: do these albums > suffer from ECM's questionable, smooth (read: nauseating) production > values? I do own a couple of ECM releases, and although the music is great > (Rypdal, Godard & Parker/Phillips/Bley), I'd be hard-pressed to order any > other records by this label. The other albums you mention are on Nessa; I > know they released a box set some years ago. So, what would you recommend a > finicky music-lover who prefers her jazz rough and earthy? I'd really > appreciate some suggestions. Thank you. > Francisca > > > Monsalve@interaccess.cl > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Gretz <KGGF@grove.iup.edu> Subject: top live shows Date: 05 Apr 1998 14:26:22 -0500 (EST) here's my list of the best concerts i have ever seen: 1) Fishbone (the give a monkey a brain tour) Metropol, Pittsburgh PA 2) Faith No More (Angel Dust tour) Metropol, pittsburgh pa 3) Faith NO MOre (Album of the year tour) Electric Factory, Philly, pa 4) Mr. Bungle (Disco Volante Tour) Black Cat, Washington dc 5) Jesus Lizard (Liar tour) City LImits, Penn hills, pa 6) Boredoms (their lollapalooza appearance) starlake ampitheater, pittsburgh 7) P- FUnk (same as above) 8) Masada (two years ago) Rodef Shamlom temple pittsburgh pa 9) Rolling Stones (voodoo lounge tour) three rivers stadium, pittsburgh (hey, what can i say, they rock) 10) Neil Diamond (back in 89) civic arena, pittsburgh pa, (he's the king!) jeff - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Gretz <KGGF@grove.iup.edu> Subject: math rock Date: 05 Apr 1998 14:27:07 -0500 (EST) you forgot the most IMPORTANT math-rock band of all time, BREADWINNER (which was an off-shoor of Honor Role) jeff - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: Art Ensemble of Chicago Date: 05 Apr 1998 11:22:51 -0700 >I >know they released a box set some years ago. So, what would you recommend a >finicky music-lover who prefers her jazz rough and earthy? I'd really >appreciate some suggestions. Thank you. > Francisca For rough and earthy you simply must get the boxed set. Don't hesitate. Keith - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: top live shows Date: 05 Apr 1998 11:26:03 -0700 Carl Stone/Otomo Yoshihide at the Alligator Lounge words cannot express the show was during a time of extreme stress between Japan and USA regarding trade issues, and Clinton refusing to apologize for Hiroshima if memory serves...for whatever reason there was high tension...at one point OY put the Star Spangled Banner on the turntable...let it go for a few seconds...then with fury slammed his fist on the record bringing it to a profound halt... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fate@telepath.com Subject: Re: RV: Art Ensemble of Chicago Date: 05 Apr 1998 14:19:46 -0500 >Outside of a couple of Old & New Dreams and Dewey Redman albums, the Art >Ensemble has the only stuff on ECM that isn't a replacement for sleeping >pills. Waitaminnit - the Hal Russell/NRG Ensemble records are pretty damn wild and hairy; Hal readily confessed to the Ayler influence. And those definitely _don't_ have the glossy patina usually associated with ECM. I'd say those are a better replacement for some trashy bathtub speed or acid... Hal Russell/NRG Ensemble: the Finnish/Swiss Tour - great live document! Hal Russell/NRG Ensemble: the Hal Russell Story (a fantastic record - it breaks my heart that Hal died so soon after recording this...) Hal Russell: Hal's Bells - a little mellower, but not by much - also solo in every sense; Hal overdubbed all the instruments - vibes, sax, trumpet, trap set, etc. - himself. Some amazing preconception of where everything would fit, similar to Bill Evans' Conversations with Myself in that respect - and that respect only ;). Further, lotsa Carla Bley's work is pretty raucous - try European Tour 1977 or Live! . >> >>So, what would you recommend a >> finicky music-lover who prefers her jazz rough and earthy? I'd really >> appreciate some suggestions. Thank you. >> Francisca Rahsaan Roland Kirk! I'd say the man was as earthy as they come... find reissued recordings prior to 73... the late Atlantics & the Warner Bros releases get a little too sleek in song selection (read: pop) for my tastes. And the posthumously released live recordings are all pretty great, IMNSHO. Also the obvious choices: Mingus, Monk, Coleman - but you probably already know that ;)... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> Subject: Re: RV: Art Ensemble of Chicago Date: 05 Apr 1998 15:40:27 -0400 Francisca wrote: The other albums you mention are on Nessa; I > know they released a box set some years ago. So, what would you recommend a > finicky music-lover who prefers her jazz rough and earthy? I'd really > appreciate some suggestions. Thank you. > The aggravating thing is that their six greatest records, IMHO (not counting the Nessa box, which _is_ very great), haven't been reissued on disc and could be neatly packaged in three pairs: Les Stances/People In Sorrow, Phase One/w/Fontella Bass and Bap-Tizum/Fanfare. The first was scheduled to be issued (by Blue Note, I think) last fall, but fell through. I believe I also heard something about the latter being released soon (through Koch? Steve?). If you can locate the vinyl, though, go for 'em. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William R Baker <wrb@christa.unh.edu> Subject: better late than never top 20 Date: 05 Apr 1998 16:25:59 -0400 (EDT) Here's my top 20: mr.bungle-discovolante & self titled boredoms-super roots masada-any ...um the box set john zorn-elegy radiohead-ok computer john zorn-classic guide to strategy 1&2 secretchiefs 3-first grand constitution & Bylaws Aphex Twin-Richard D. James & SAW II Stravinsky-Rite of Spring Peter Thomas-Film Musik Squarepusher-hard normal daddy nirvana-nevermind forbidden planet-louis and Bebe Barron mingus,mingus,mingus,mingus-charles mingus angel dust-faith no more under the pink-tori amos portrait of jazz-bill evans absolutely free-frank zappa biggest disapointment 1) painkiller....I just can't get into it. best concert experiences 1) 2 sets of Masada at the ICA in boston...a near religious experience 2) mr.bungle-disco volante tour at the avalon 3) fishbone -ok on cd but probably one of the best live bands i've ever seen. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sean Terwilliger <seanter@ix.netcom.com> Subject: ECM Date: 05 Apr 1998 16:36:44 -0400 > >Outside of a couple of Old & New Dreams and Dewey Redman albums, the Art > >Ensemble has the only stuff on ECM that isn't a replacement for sleeping > >pills. What about... Steve Tibbetts David Torn Krakatau Bill Frisell Early Pat Metheny (ie: Offramp, 80/81) -Sean - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: ECM Date: 05 Apr 1998 14:59:35 -0700 >> >Outside of a couple of Old & New Dreams and Dewey Redman albums, the Art >> >Ensemble has the only stuff on ECM that isn't a replacement for sleeping >> >pills. > >What about... >Steve Tibbetts >David Torn >Krakatau >Bill Frisell >Early Pat Metheny (ie: Offramp, 80/81) > >-Sean That's right. I can't go to sleep with that shit on. Keith - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pierre Toussaint <m223024@er.uqam.ca> Subject: cobra Date: 05 Apr 1998 19:08:23 -0400 I've just bought the Cobra cd (on Hat Now). It says on a sticker, and on the back that it's the 4th edition. Does anyone know what it means? Are they three (or more) other versions? Is it the 4th pressing? It's not an existential question, but i'm curious! Thanks. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel) Subject: top 20 (a late one) Date: 06 Apr 1998 01:19:12 +0200 Hi all! You probably don't want to read this anymore, but I thought, since my list has some CDs which weren't mentioned by others, I'll send it to you anyway. I really couldn't live without these 20 CDs: (Most decisions were made because of memories I connect with the music, but nearly every CD of these touches me because of it's beauty as well) In alphabetical order: 1. Peter Blegvad: The Naked Shakespeare 2. APC Tracks Vol. 1 3. Axiom Dub: Mysteries Of Creation 4. Cat People 5. Dire Straits: Making Movies 6. Divination: ambient dub volume I 7. The Golden Palominos: A Dead Horse 8. The Golden Palominos: Pure 9. Herbie Hancock: Dis Is Da Drum 10. Jon Hassell and bluescreen: Dressing For Pleasure 11. Bill Laswell: Silent Recoil - Dub System One 12. Material: Hallucination Engine 13. Material: Seven Souls 14. Marcus Miller: The Sun Don't Lie 15. Robert Musso: Active Resonance 16. Praxis: Transmutation (Mutatis Mutandis) 17. Praxis: Metatron 18. Julian Priester: Keep Swingin' 19. Ryuichi Sakamoto: Sweet Revenge 20. Tangerine Dream: Sorcerer And since I can only take 20 on the desert island, I'd leave those back with a bleeding heart (read: I couldn't live without those either): 1. Axiom Funk: Funkcronomicon 2. George Clinton & The P-Funk Allstars: T.A.P.O.A.F.O.M. 3. Conan The Barbarian 4. Miles Davis: In A Silent Way 5. Elixir: Hegalien Zone 6. Funkadelic: One Nation Under A Groove 7. Herbie Hancock: Head Hunters 8. Hardware 9. Jochen Hippel: Give It A Try 10. Massacre: Killing Time 11. Material: Temporary Music (1979-1981) 12. Material: Memory Serves I've got the following ones on vinyl only, so I didn't include them: Iron Maiden: Killers CAN: Soon Over Babaluma Julian Priester Pepo Mtoto: Love, Love Well ... I was very disappointed by these CDs: Anthony Braxton/Richard Teitelbaum: Open Aspects (Duo) 1982 - Not my first exposure to Braxton (I already knew him from Marion Brown's "Afternoon of a Georgia Faun"), but probably my last one. I really find this CD so thoroughly annoying I never listened to it all the way through. It's so cold, so untouching, so uninteresting and so unnerving ... Julian Priester/Sam Rivers: Hints Of Light and Shadow (1997) - I was so excited to see Priester had done a new album after 20 years! But, no, it's not like "Keep Swingin'", it's not like "Love, Love", but it's something which leaves me thoroughly cold. Herbie Hancock/Wayne Shorter: 1+1 (1997) - Seems I should keep my hands away from duets. This is beautiful, of course, but has also a quite annoying vibe, and since it's all ballads, I keep pressing the stop button after max. 4 songs. The concert was so great, but this is boring. I really can't comment on my top 20 live concerts, since I've been only to a handful, so it's probably better if I comment those I saw: Herbie Hancock w/ Craig Handy, Dave Holland, Gene Jackson; Munich, Herkules- saal 1996: ("The New Standard") The first time I saw the great Herbie Hancock live, and it was so wonderful. This inspired me to seek out more Dave Holland and Craig Handy, of whom I only knew that he did the music for a season of the Cosby Show. Ray Anderson's Pocket Brass Band w/ Marcus Rojas, Pheeroan AkLaff; Vilshofen, 1996: I didn't know anyone of these three players, but I liked the show quite well. Didn't check Anderson's albums out yet, but the concert surely was inspired, with only trombone/voice, tuba and drums delivering great tunes ranging from bebop to free improv. Pharoah Sanders w/ Lonnie Plaxedo (sp?), Terri Lyne Carrington, Joanne Brackeen (sp?); Vilshofen, 1996: Sanders impressed me with the "Message from Home" CD, and I bought some of his other albums as well, but this concert was really lame. Those four couldn't play together at all; Joanna wanted to break the piano in pieces, Carrington always raised her upper lip as if in ecstacy and Pharoah didn't talk to us at all, took several wrong starts and was quite unimpressive. Herbie Hancock/Wayne Shorter; Munich, Philharmonie, 1997; ("1+1") Delightful. This was what the CD should have been - fascinating. Lenny White w/ Bennie Maupin, Foley, Ralph Armstrong, Don Blackman, Mark Ledford; Munich, Bayrischer Hof, 1997; Great, great, great!! They all were in top form and were funky like hell. Good to hear Maupin hasn't lost his power (his recent CD appearances have been somewhat lame); he screamed all the way through. Foley turned a jazz ballad into a hard rock song, and everybody really had a good time. That's all for now; sorry for this verbose and probably way too late message. Kind regards, - Chris. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Landon Thorpe <landocal@mail.utexas.edu> Subject: Re: Don Cab Date: 05 Apr 1998 18:20:38 -0500 >Any of this Storm and Stress material available on CD? > >=dgasque= Yes. Self-titled on Touch and Go: tg173. Landon Thorpe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: Top 20 Date: 05 Apr 1998 16:13:32 -0700 Over 80 lists...about 320 to go? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gabriel Lichtmann <licht@bancaria.com.ar> Subject: Disappointments and Controversy Date: 15 Feb 1998 15:34:00 -0300 Well, I' ve been having great fun reading the discussions that have arised from this "dissapointments" thing, and I think it's my turn to participate. On the "Faith No More/KFADFFAL/AD/Jon Hudson" subject, I have to say I was really surprised so many of you voted their last two albums over the first two with Mike Patton. I think that was there most creative period, the one where they tried everything they would later use on the "AOTY" songs, and from which they tried to get away with the "straigt ahead rock music sound" of "King...". Incidentally, this album was one of the great disappointments in my music life; the day I first heard "Angel Dust" I, literally, cried, I couldn't believe such beautiful music, and when I heard the follow up I, literally, got furious. I think "Angel Dust" is a masterpiece (one of the few in rock music), an album created out from frustration, anger, and the internal struggles in a band which hasn't yet decided what it wants to sound like (it's a shame that on the last two albums they gave up their fights and opted for indifference for each other). I think the band is at it's best on that album, and I have to disagree with Julian, as much as I love Trey's work with Mr. Bungle, his playing with FNM sounded dull and mechanical; at least Jon Hudson is now the only member of the band, along with Billy Gould, who plays with his heart into it. And Julian, it's not fair to disqualify someone just because he "sucks".=20 Well, I think I wrote a bit too much, but I would like to give my opinion on one last subject, =BFWhy is everyone putting down Bill Frisell's solo records? Although I have to admit they seem a bit boring to me right now, they don't seem to qualify as failures to me. And last (but not least), I would like to add one dissapointment to the list: Mouse On Mars "Autodidakter", which sounds to me like a sixty minutes long KrautRock-Techno reinterpretation of Herbie Hancock's "Rock It". Bye P.D: =BFWhat are the opinions on Arto's and Tortoise's latest? I personally love them both. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com> Subject: Victoriaville festival Date: 04 Apr 1998 22:36:53 -0500 Is anyone from the New York City area planning to go to the festival? I am seriously considering this myself. Jason Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Silent Watcher" <silent_watcher@hotmail.com> Subject: Oh, oh...another late top 20 entry Date: 05 Apr 1998 19:57:21 PDT Sorry for the late submission, but I responded privately to the initial request for a Desert Island discs top 20, and was too busy to struggle to come up with another top 20 (it changes somewhat from day to day!) 1) Masada - Alef 2) Isaac Hayes - Greatest Hits Volume I 3) Alice Coltrane - Journey In Satchidananda 4) John Coltrane - A Love Supreme 5) Sonny Sharrock - Ask the Ages 6) Bob Marley - Legend 7) Frank Zappa - Freak Out 8) Material - Seven Souls (remastered) 9) Stravinsky - The Rite of Spring (conducted by Stravinsky) 10) Mad Professor - The Lost Scrolls of Moses 11) The Golden Palominos - This Is How It Feels 12) Bootsy Collins - Back In the Day : Best of 13) Laswell/Tetsu Inoue - Cymatic Scan 14) Lull - Cold Summer 15) Naked City - Radio 16) Stevie Wonder - Original Musiquarium 17) Slotek - 7 18) Beatles - The Beatles 19) Beatles - Revolver 20) Lee Perry - Upsetter In Dub Ask me again tomorrow, and it'll change. Live Shows : Bootsy Collins - The Axis in Boston September 1994 P-Funk - Garden State Arts Center August 1996 Painkiller - The Middle East, Cambridge, Mass. May 1995 Masada - September 1997 (I expect the next round of shows at the end of the month to live up to this one!) Alice Cooper - Meadowlands 1990-ish (Never liked him, it was part of a package tour in my "metal" youth...he put on an amazing stage show-it's a shame most of his material is terrible) Nuclear Assault/Savatage/Testament - 1989 (first show I ever saw - it HAD to make the list, regardless of what I think of that music now!) Tribe After Tribe - The Axis, 1993 Buckethead/Invisible Skratch Picklz - Wetlands, 1996 Zorn/Patton/Mori - Knitting Factory, August 1996 (kind of an off show compared to what I hear about them now, but the first time I ever saw Ikue Mori play....she's got skills!) The Golden Palominos - TT the Bears, Cambridge, Mass....oh, wait, the cancelled that tour a few days before the show...grrrrrr... Praxis - The Anchorage in Brooklyn, June 1997 (I imagine they could do better, but, come on, it was Laswell, Buckethead and Worrell on stage together, it had it's moments) Ok, then, I guess that's it. Sorry again for the lateness of this one. SW For Sale/Want List and Laswell Discography at http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Cline <pmc7288@is.nyu.edu> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #301 Date: 05 Apr 1998 23:34:19 -0400 (EDT) On Sat, 4 Apr 1998, Jon Mooneyham wrote: > >In a message dated 98-04-04 09:40:12 EST, you write: > > > >Raindogs was his first outing in his so called "expiramental" period.. > > > >Personally my > >favorite Waits releases are his follow ups to Rain Dogs, SWORDFISHTROMBONE and > >the beautiful soundtrack to his play FRANK'S WILD YEARS... just my .02 > >-cory sklar > > > Swordfishtrombones was the first in Waits' then-new more whacked approach, > not Raindogs... > Jon M. > My personal favorite Waits album is the soundtrack to the Black Rider, on which he collaborates with Wiliam Burroughs and Robert Wilson. Greg Cohen figures prominently on this album. Speaking of Robert Wilson, I saw his production of Wagner's Lohengrin at the Met Opera last week. It was thouroughly enjoyable, and like all Wilson productions, at least all that I have seen, completely devoid of movement, life, and physical interaction. Which is what makes his productions so fascinating. Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: Caroliner, Secret Chiefs to tour Aus... Date: 06 Apr 1998 12:58:36 +1000 (EST) On Fri, 3 Apr 1998 flamerik@best.ms.philips.com wrote: > > Okay, my top disappointments would include: > - Every single album by anyone in Mr. Bungle except maybe Mike Patton (I must > confess I haven't heard the new Secret Chiefs 3 album yet). How come these > guys have made one of the most brilliant albums ever, and their other projects > are all lame? Have you heard any of the LPs by Caroliner? Some great things happening there, with (I think) Trey Spruance or Trevor Dunn onboard. Someone here will know. Some of the Amarillo 7-inchs are v funny in a special way, also. (This next part is mostly directed to the Aus-listers here: sorry) I guess you know by now that the Secret Chiefs Trio will be making their world premiere in Australia this May - if not, check the details at the Web of Mimicry site. Starting 21st May at Geelong, ends June 9th at the Gold Coast. Should be something! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: Freddie Katz soundtracks (was: Ken Nordine) Date: 06 Apr 1998 13:24:28 +1000 (EST) On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, Dgasque wrote: > Look for his LPs/CDs with backup by the Fred Katz Group- by far better than > his later output. Speaking of the Fred Katz Group, his ensemble is featured > in the soundtrack of a 50's movie about a plant that ate people- later remade > featuring Rick Moranis in the starring role. Never can remember the name of > it though... > That's "Little Shop of Horrors". Fred Katz scored a couple of Roger Corman's other movies from this period (no titles offhand, sorry): his group - with Chico Hamilton - also worked under Elmer Bernstein for "The Sweet Smell of Success" (not as great as the Man w the Golden Arm, sadly...) Tho' I have to say: i like all Nordine's stuff - his work backed by the Northern Jazz Quartet, and the more recent work as well. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: Caveman music (was: TOP 20) Date: 06 Apr 1998 13:26:55 +1000 (EST) On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Patrick Stockton wrote: > Caveman Shoestore - "Flux" > Caveman Hughscore - self-titled (this is Caveman Shoestore with Hugh > Hopper) > Hughscore - "High Spot Paradox" This doesn't mean a damn thing to me: please tell me more... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: Stravinsky/Shostakovitch do jazz?? Date: 06 Apr 1998 13:33:48 +1000 (EST) On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Chris Bar{ett wrote: > >I do > >believe that Bix Beiderbeck was in the Whiteman band but he played soprano > >sax, not cornet. > > I may be shaky on the Whiteman info, but as a trumpet player, I *know* that > Bix was a coronet player, and hung with Hoagy Carmicheal. > I may be shaky on my Stravinsky/Shostakovitch/Whiteman info, but as a cornet player, I *know* a coronet is a thing that goes on yr head Err, I think... :-) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #301 Date: 05 Apr 1998 21:18:22 -0700 >Speaking of Robert Wilson, I saw his production of Wagner's Lohengrin at >the Met Opera last week. It was thouroughly enjoyable, and like all >Wilson productions, at least all that I have seen, completely devoid of >movement, life, and physical interaction. Which is what makes his >productions so fascinating. > >Peter And beginning next week is the much awaited MONSTERS OF GRACE by Wilson/Glass to annoint the earthquake repaired and refurbished Royce Hall at UCLA. Polish up those 3D glasses and see the show. Will it live up to all the hype? I'm betting my 70 bucks to find out. Keith - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: Stravinsky/Shostakovitch do jazz?? Date: 05 Apr 1998 21:20:23 -0700 >I may be shaky on my Stravinsky/Shostakovitch/Whiteman info, but as a >cornet player, I *know* a coronet is a thing that goes on yr head > >Err, I think... :-) Yeah...it was Spike Jones that played the coronet. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: Stravinsky/Shostakovitch do jazz?? Date: 06 Apr 1998 13:41:07 +1000 (EST) Thanks so much for all the info! On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Ken Waxman wrote: > Paul Whiteman was a white (sic) bandleader of the 1920s most > famous for his "symphonic jazz". His orchestra was the first to perform (snip) > Whiteman is usually seen as the villan in thge heavily romantic > the Beiderbecke sage, but, in truth, but kept the alcoholic, sick cornestist on his payroll, whether he could > play or notr almost until he (Bix) died. Oh, this was the source of my confusion: I've just been reading Milton "Mezz" Mezzrow's "Really The Blues" (a fantastic, idiomatic insider's account of the early days of jazz - written in patois of the day), and he talks about how great was the performance of Stravinsky's piece by Herman's band. He talks about some pretty crazy binges with Bix as well, so, yeah - what Ken says is spot-on. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob DeNunzio <zorn@gladstone.uoregon.edu> Subject: Re: Caveman music (was: TOP 20) Date: 05 Apr 1998 22:44:48 -0700 At 01:26 PM 4/6/98 +1000, James Douglas Knox wrote: > >On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Patrick Stockton wrote: > >> Caveman Shoestore - "Flux" >> Caveman Hughscore - self-titled (this is Caveman Shoestore with Hugh >> Hopper) >> Hughscore - "High Spot Paradox" > >This doesn't mean a damn thing to me: please tell me more... > The only thing I know about these releases is that they involve Wayne Horvitz bass veteran Fred Chalenor (Zony Mash, Pigpen, etc.). Rob DeNunzio Hi-Fi Mundo http://www.teleport.com/~hifim - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jack Schonewolf <jdschone@sas.upenn.edu> Subject: Steve Reich Date: 06 Apr 1998 02:58:50 -0500 Dear Listservers, First off, I want to thank everyone for the great discussion lately on the listserve, as it helped me through a real bad week. Anyway, one name that I saw come up on a few lists, I believe, was Steve Reich, who I am not familiar with. What is his music like? Good albums to start with? What are people's thoughts on his work? I would be very appreciative of whatever you could tell me. By the way, I highly recommend both of the Anthony Coleman Tzadik Radical Jewish Culture Series records, Sephardic Tinge and Selfhaters. They are the cat's meow. In fact, I have not had a bad purchase from that series. Well, I guess that is all for now. Jack Schonewolf - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J.T. de Boer" <S0821683@let.rug.nl> Subject: Re: Stravinsky/Shostakovitch do jazz?? Date: 06 Apr 1998 09:10:48 +0100 I thought Bix Beiderbecke was a clarinetplayer? Jeroen de Boer On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Chris Bar{ett wrote: > >I do > >believe that Bix Beiderbeck was in the Whiteman band but he played soprano > >sax, not cornet. > > I may be shaky on the Whiteman info, but as a trumpet player, I *know* that > Bix was a coronet player, and hung with Hoagy Carmicheal. > I may be shaky on my Stravinsky/Shostakovitch/Whiteman info, but as a cornet player, I *know* a coronet is a thing that goes on yr head Err, I think... :-) - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Artur Nowak <arno@silesia.top.pl> Subject: RE: Disappointment/Frisell Date: 05 Apr 1998 22:54:07 +0200 -----Original Message----- Sent: Saturday, April 04, 1998 9:23 PM >Just ignore me. Keith, just so you know you are not alone, I too really dislike Frisell's albums. Dumped every one of them I have bought. I to like his work with Naked City, the Paul Motian trio stuff, and I assume the clarinetist thing you mention above is his playing on Don Byron's Tuskegee Experiments, which is a great album. I don't like Theoretically though. The only Berne album I've traded in. Sounded to me like new age twaddle (I'm gonna get flamed.) There's something about Frisell's choice of material and combined with style that just bore me to death. His album with the John Hiatt song, the Madonna one, etc was, to my ears, bad elevator music. The only one I regret not keeping, just so I could give it another chance, is an early Nonesuch album, with a long track arranged by Zorn, can't remember the name of the album. I think I have managed to put his own album into some back part of my memory, where I try to keep them hidden so it doesn't sour my opinion of his other work. Dan [Artur Nowak] The only album you regret not keeping is "Before We Were Born" which is a good record, but a bit too casual, recorded during few sessions, with different musicians. Each composition has easily perceived arranger-trademark. The themes arranged by Scherer are more electronic-based (drum machine, keyboard backgrounds). The track arranged by Zorn is: 6. "Hard Plains Drifter. Or: as I take my last breath and the noose grows tight, the incredible events of the past three days flash before my eyes" (13:18). This track sounds for me now like early Naked City recording (maybe this was Zorn's first idea of making such project?), arranged using cut-and-paste method: few noisy moments, country, reagge-dubbs, punk-intros, and quitet soundscapes. The last song (song, really, with Arto Lindsay singing) is extraordinary, the CD is worth buying just for this 2 minutes long song. The album with Hiatt and Madonna songs is "Have a Little Faith", which is essential Frisell album, IMHO. This record shows one of his gratest talents: he is able make synthesis of opposite elements. Frisell's music methotology is dialectics, and the synthesis is (almost) always very coherent (VERY coherent in case of "Have a Little Faith). One of the most non-coherent album is already mentioned "Before We Were Born", which is rather a preparation for future projects, preliminary, opening to new influences. Too much Hegel? OK, I'm gone, just like a train... ;-) ____________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/emd/pl40/artists/f/frisell_bill/default.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: Re: Yes <blush> Date: 06 Apr 1998 10:42:14 +0200 (MESZ) hmmm YESSONGS was the album that made me interested in more "complicate" music when i was 13 in 1987... still love to listen to Close to the edge and Relayer YEPP BJOERN > >...and <dont hate me> a toss up between Yes' Close to the Edge or REalyer > ><blush> > > > >- -corn diggity dog > > No need to blush, corn- > > I recently had a chance to listen to the latest Yes "Keys to Ascension 2", > and was very surprised at how good it was. Nothing like the "Big Generator" > sound I was expecting. Anyhow, this put me on something of a Yes binge, at > which time I thankfully rediscovered "Relayer" as a long forgotten treasure > from my youth. Good call! > > Todd > > > > > ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` > Todd Bramy > tbramy@oz.net > http://www.oz.net/~tbramy > ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` > "It is not a fragrant world." > Raymond Chandler > ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` > > > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: Re: 6 disappointments 6 Date: 06 Apr 1998 10:47:02 +0200 (MESZ) > > 1- KING FOR A DAY- Faith No More > > Where were the keyboards in this album? Without Roddy FNM is NOT really > > FNM. It was just a good record from a good band (which didn't sound like > > FNM) > I don't know about you, but I would prefer to hear Trey than Roddy any day. > well since this is in my top 20 i want to say that this is a perfect album...maybe it is no typical FNM album but it is their only album that also jazz/avantgarde non-rock listeners like...believe me\ BJOERN - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: enough!!!! Date: 06 Apr 1998 10:59:23 +0200 (MESZ) shit, i know i started this whole top 20 thing.... comin back home after four days and havin more than 300 emails in my mail-folder is too much.... when will i ever get the chance to get through all these lists goddamn\ anyway...go on!!! i dont see the sence in top 20s for liveshows and disappointments since this wont help anyone to get into great stuff he/she never heard before... BJOERN http://www.cityinfonetz.de/uni/homepage/bjoern.eichstaedt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JSub <JSub@aol.com> Subject: Top 20 Date: 06 Apr 1998 06:34:24 EDT In no particular order: Napalm Death - Scum Techno Animal - Re-Entry Zorn - Naked City Godflesh - Pure James Brown - StarTime (if I couldn't take the whole box then disc 3) Material - Hallucination Engine Painkiller - Execution Ground Last Exit - Headfirst Into the Flames Led Zeppelin - IV King Crimson - Great Deceiver Miles Davis - Panagea Scorn - Evanescence Extreme Noise Terror - Peel Sessions Masada - Circle Maker New Kingdom - Paradise Don't Come Cheap Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back Nicky Skopelitis - Ekstasis Divination - Ambient Dub vol 2 Dead Slow Sonny Sharrock - Guitar John Coltrane - Major Works Entirely too many great things have been left off. I'm thankful this is just a what if and hope I would never be limited to just 20 cd's. Jeff Sublett - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Disappointments and Controversy Date: 06 Apr 1998 21:34:02 +1000 > I think "Angel Dust" is a > masterpiece (one of the few in rock music), an album created out from > frustration, anger, and the internal struggles in a band which hasn't yet > decided what it wants to sound like (it's a shame that on the last two > albums they gave up their fights and opted for indifference for each > other). I think the band is at it's best on that album, and I have to > disagree with Julian, as much as I love Trey's work with Mr. Bungle, his > playing with FNM sounded dull and mechanical; at least Jon Hudson is now > the only member of the band, along with Billy Gould, who plays with his > heart into it. And Julian, it's not fair to disqualify someone just because > he "sucks". True, but I _was_ joking with that abruptness. I agree that Angel Dust is one of the greatest rock albums, but your argument makes little sense. What should KFAD have been like? It was either going to be a copy of AD or something totally different. They could choose whichever they wanted, and they chose the latter. So, put the two albums together, you get a good band in two different modes, which I think is a lot better than two albums that sound the same (a direct comparison can be made to Mr Bungle's jump from the selftitled to Disco Volante). And by the way, in my humble opinion, Evidence has some of Trey's most impressive playing in it. In Mr Bungle he's a lot more imaginative, but on KFAD, he did some pretty straight but still excellent guitar work. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Rad. Jewish Culture (was Steve Reich) Date: 06 Apr 1998 21:40:48 +1000 > By the way, I highly recommend both of the Anthony Coleman Tzadik Radical > Jewish Culture Series records, Sephardic Tinge and Selfhaters. They are the > cat's meow. In fact, I have not had a bad purchase from that series. Well, > I guess that is all for now. I think Nani Nani's on that series isn't it? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: akemi and jagatara Date: 06 Apr 1998 21:48:05 +1000 Can someone tell me who these are? They're listed in the "Radio" booklet for the song "Bone Orchard" I believe. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: weird? Date: 06 Apr 1998 12:58:14 GMT0BST anybody have info. on the forthcoming zorn release "weird little boy" (avant 43?) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "PETSITTER" <PETSITTER@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: 6 disappointments 6 Date: 05 Apr 1998 18:59:14 -0500 -----Original Message----- >> > 1- KING FOR A DAY- Faith No More >> > Where were the keyboards in this album? Without Roddy FNM is NOT really >> > FNM. It was just a good record from a good band (which didn't sound like >> > FNM) >> I don't know about you, but I would prefer to hear Trey than Roddy any day. >> >well since this is in my top 20 i want to say that this is a perfect >album...maybe it is no typical FNM album but it is their only album that >also jazz/avantgarde non-rock listeners like...believe me\ > > >How do you figure a jazz/avantgarde listener will like this lame album. Jazz/avantgarde listeners expect something a little different, exciting and spontaneus. King for a day is bad even for a typical rock CD. and I love Faith no More! Any one else agree on this?> >- > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com> Subject: Re: ECM Date: 06 Apr 1998 08:34:46 -0400 Keith McMullen wrote: > >> >Outside of a couple of Old & New Dreams and Dewey Redman albums, > the Art > >> >Ensemble has the only stuff on ECM that isn't a replacement for > sleeping > >> >pills. > > > >What about... > >Steve Tibbetts > >David Torn > >Krakatau > >Bill Frisell > >Early Pat Metheny (ie: Offramp, 80/81) > > > >-Sean > > That's right. I can't go to sleep with that shit on. > > Keith I must agree that the current version of ECM is pretty lame. However, way back in ancient history, the 70s, they put out quite a few excellent LPs. In fact some of it was cutting edge, at least at the time it was. There are many that I could name, but just a few are: Dave Holland's Conference of the Birds Barre Phillips' Mountainscapes Jack DeJohnette's New Directions Ralph Towner's Batik Eberhard Weber's Yellow Fields Pat Metheny's 80/81 Chick Corea's Return to Forever (the LP, not the band) CIRCLE Regardless of how we might view some of the above in 1998, these were all, as I remember, at the razor's edge when they came out. Though Jarrett long ago went off the deep end, his early ECM stuff was quite exciting, especially the Koln and Bremen solo pieces and the Dewey Redman quartet. The first Bass Desires was another good piece, and let's not forget that AEC was on ECM, though not at the top of their game. Of course most of this goes back at least 20 years, but they do deserve some credit for recognizing the talent involved. Other than small labels like HatArt and Tzadik, there is no consistent flow of interesting music coming forth from anywhere. The big guns put out Boney James and Kenny G then ram them down your throat. Guys like HatArt and AUM are lucky to crack 1000 copies of anything. Alan > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: weeeeeeeen Date: 06 Apr 1998 13:49:26 UT I noticed a lot of attention to The Pod and Pure Guava, both of which are excellent, but no-one's mentioned their first album, God*Ween*Satan. Definitely as good as the others, if not their best. I suppose it really depends on what mood I'm in to say which is the best. Anyway, if you don't have it, go get it. Fantastic, plus the cover of Prince's Shockadelica rules. Also, I'm pleased to say I saw them in their first ever live gig at the Euclid Tavern in Cleveland, and they tore the place up with only two guitars and a DAT of drum beats. They ended with the Prince cover and one Ween guy (which is which?) tore the strings off his guitar one by one, ending with a five minute long scorhcing one-string guitar solo. Those guys ruled. Another great band lost to the majors. :( Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Geert Buelens <buelens@uia.ua.ac.be> Subject: My 20 Date: 06 Apr 1998 15:02:27 +0200 (MET DST) Random order: Beatles: White Album Violent Femmes: Violent Femmes Van Morrison: Veedon Fleece Miles Davis: Kind of Blue Tom Waits: Swordfishtrombones Zorn: Bar Kokhba Joni Mitchell: Hejira Soul Coughing: Ruby Vroom Sibelius: Violin Concerto Schubert: String Quintett in C Bach: Cello Suites Bach: Violin Sonatas & Partitas Bach: Goldberg Variations David Sylvian: Secrets of the Beehive Prince: Sign of the Times Joe Jackson: Body & Soul Elvis Costello: King of America REM: Lifes Rich Pageant Townes van Zandt: Live & Obscure any Jacques Brel geert - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Math Rock/ DC II Date: 06 Apr 1998 14:00:47 UT I really never caught on to DC II, but DC I is a fantastic rock record, with a little bit of math. My favorite math rock: Dr. Nerve - Skin : It gets NO mathier than this. An amazing amazing record with an ensemble that plays more fucked up and tighter than Naked City, with rhythms shifting from 13/8 into 7/4 into 5/8 into god knows what else. Plus, computer generated melodies that are tonal/atonal collisions, yet are beautiful in a bizarre way. A must have. Did it make my list? Yeah, it did, but the next one didn't and that's a sin. Philo Beddow - This all but unknown band has one EP out and it could be one of the best records of all time. Shoulda been on my list and it's a crime that it wasn't. Vaguely acessible math rock. Far out meters, but in a good rockin' way, with nice heavy playing all around. Craw - their first album - Whatever it's called, this was the it for me. All sorts of math games with a bit of free improv and excellent playing. Rock when it's time to rock. Twiddle when it's time to twiddle. Scream when it's time to scream. You get the idea. Any other suggestions? Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Math Rock/ DC II Date: 06 Apr 1998 23:26:39 +1000 > Any other suggestions? Well, what about just the good ol' Ruins? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Math Rock/ DC II Date: 06 Apr 1998 23:38:51 +1000 > Dr. Nerve - Skin : It gets NO mathier than this. An amazing amazing record with > an ensemble that plays more fucked up and tighter than Naked City, with rhythms > shifting from 13/8 into 7/4 into 5/8 into god knows what else. Plus, computer > generated melodies that are tonal/atonal collisions, yet are beautiful in a > bizarre way. A must have. Did it make my list? Yeah, it did, but the next one > didn't and that's a sin. > > Philo Beddow - This all but unknown band has one EP out and it could be one of > the best records of all time. Shoulda been on my list and it's a crime that it > wasn't. Vaguely acessible math rock. Far out meters, but in a good rockin' > way, with nice heavy playing all around. Where can you buy these? I tried searching some shops on the net, with no luck. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: flamerik@best.ms.philips.com Subject: Re: Math Rock/ DC II Date: 06 Apr 1998 15:29:43 +0200 > My favorite math rock: > > Dr. Nerve - Skin : It gets NO mathier than this. An amazing amazing record with > an ensemble that plays more fucked up and tighter than Naked City, with rhythms > shifting from 13/8 into 7/4 into 5/8 into god knows what else. What's so special about that? Bands like Dream Theater routinely write songs that feature every meter from 5/4, 5/8, 7/8, 9/8, 11/8, 13/8, 15/16, etc. in one and the same song. Listen to "Metropolis Pt. I" from Images and Words, for example. Yet this is not called math-rock, its called over-pretentious progressive crap. There isn't a single symphonic rock band that sticks to 4/4, so I get a bit tired every time someone says "wow, this song is in 5/4, check it out". What about Zappa using completely fucked up meters like 23/16. As a matter of fact, even Genesis uses something this far out during the solo of "Robbery, Assault, and Battery". Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Gretz <KGGF@grove.iup.edu> Subject: Diabolic Date: 06 Apr 1998 14:05:33 -0400 (EDT) just picked this up on the FNM list: turns out mike patton has a new band called - DIABOLIC, with Trevor Dunn, Buzz Osbourne (from the Melvins) and Dave Lombardo!!!!!!!!!!! (former drummer of SLAYER), they are making their live debut in July. this will probably be to good to handle. jeff - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: top 20 tallies Date: 06 Apr 1998 17:30:52 UT Again, I have the full list in either Windows XL or text file format. Let me know if you want a copy. Peter peter_risser@cinfin.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francisca" <monsalve@interaccess.cl> Subject: Re: Faith No More Date: 06 Apr 1998 12:27:20 -0400 I do not mean to insult anybody's musical preferences, but I have a hard time figuring out what exactly so many of you find compelling, experimental and exciting about Faith No More, considering that you appreciate such a diverse range of excellent music. And I know what I'm talking about, since at one point in my life I owned 3 of their albums. But I have long since abandoned any interest in pretty pop -- along with all my rock favorites of yore: Jane's Addiction, Metallica, Carcass, King's X, Voivod and Soundgarden's Louder Than Love. Nowadays I prefer Musica Transonic (an insane Japanese band), Caspar Brotzmann Massaker and Pussy Galore. God knows even Xenakis is far louder and wilder than any of those tame pups. Francisca P.S. Thank you to all those who have made known their favorite Art Ensemble of Chicago records. Monsalve@interaccess.cl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Final Tally Date: 06 Apr 1998 17:25:46 UT The top 40 Artists in the John Zorn countdown are as follows: 62 Davis, Miles 59 Zorn, John 46 Naked City 44 Coltrane, John 39 Coleman, Ornette 39 Zappa, Frank (including Mothers) 23 King Crimson 22 Beatles 22 Mingus, Charles 22 Waits, Tom 16 Masada 16 Mr. Bungle 15 Captain Beefheart 15 Eno, Brian (including Fripp/Eno and Byrne/Eno) 14 Reich, Steve 13 Bailey, Derek (including w/ Ruins) 13 Frisell, Bill 13 Stravinksy, Igor 12 Material 12 Sonic Youth 11 Ayler, Albert 11 Bach 11 Dolphy, Eric 11 Kronos Quartet (including items listed under composer, but they were mentioned as players) 11 Taylor, Cecil (including the Feel Trio and Unit) 10 Berne, Tim (including Bloodcount and Chaos Totale) 10 Boredoms 10 Braxton, Anthony 10 Cage, John 10 Faith No More 10 Glass, Philip 10 The various forms of P-Funk (including Funkadelic (6), Parliament (1) and GC and PFunk AllStars (1)) 9 Fall 9 Hendrix, Jimi 8 Art Ensemble of Chicago 8 Can 8 Pere Ubu 8 Sharrock, Sonny 8 Sun Ra 8 Velvet Underground (including Nico) 7 Aphex Twin 7 Branca, Glenn 7 Costello, Elvis 7 Monk, Thelonius 7 Varese, Edgard 7 Xenakis, Iannis Notice Miles Davis beats out Zorn, but only barely. Also, if you wrap Naked CIty and Masada back into Zorn, as some of his other projects have been, he tops the charts with a whopping 121 mentions, nearly twice as many as Davis. Which makes sense, considering the concept behind the list. The top 23 Albums you oughta own or at least run out and buy right now: 23 Naked City - Naked City 17 Davis, Miles - Kind of Blue 15 Zorn, John - Bar Kokhba 12 Coleman, Ornette - Beauty Is a Rare Thing 12 Coltrane, John - A Love Supreme 11 Mr. Bungle - Disco Volante 10 Beatles - White Album 10 Naked City - Torture Garden 9 Captain Beefheart - Trout Mask Replica 9 Coleman, Ornette - The Shape of Jazz to Come 9 Dolphy, Eric - Out to Lunch 8 Davis, Miles - Bitches' Brew 7 Ayler, Albert - Spiritual Unity 7 Davis, Miles - In A Silent Way 7 Naked City - Radio 7 Reich, Steve - Music for 18 Musicians 6 King Crimson - Larks' Tongues in Aspic 6 Masada - Alef 6 Sharrock, Sonny - Ask the Ages 6 Sonic Youth - Daydream Nation 6 Waits, Tom - Rain Dogs 6 Zappa, Frank - Weasels Ripped My Flesh 6 Zorn, John - Spy vs. Spy then, 27 more for the top 50: 5 Dylan, Bob - Blood on the Tracks 5 Eno, Brian - Another Green World 5 Faith No More - King For a Day 5 Material - Seven Souls 5 Mingus, Charles - Presents Charles Mingus 5 Mr. Bungle - Mr. Bungle 5 Stravinksy, Igor - Rite Of Spring 5 Waits, Tom - Bone Machine 5 Zorn, John - Elegy 5 Zorn, John - News for Lulu 4 Aphex Twin - Saw II 4 Beach Boys - Pet Sounds 4 Beatles - Revolver 4 Coleman, Ornette - Free Jazz 4 Davis, Miles - Pangaea 4 Faith No More - Angel Dust 4 Frisell, Bill - Have A Little Faith 4 Glass, Philip - Einstein on the Beach 4 King Crimson - Discipline 4 King Crimson - Red 4 Primus - Frizzle Fry 4 Soft Machine - Third 4 Waits, Tom - Frank's Wild Years 4 Waits, Tom - Swordfishtrombones 4 Xenakis, Iannis - La Legende D'Eer 4 Zappa, Frank - Uncle Meat 4 Zorn, John - Spillane Polls are now closed. Eat up! Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Stravinsky/Shostakovitch do jazz?? Date: 06 Apr 1998 12:35:39 -0400 (EDT) Here we go again. Bix = cornet and some piano. Never even seen with a clarinet (unless Pee Wee Russell was holding it). Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, J.T. de Boer wrote: > I thought Bix Beiderbecke was a clarinetplayer? > > Jeroen de Boer > > > On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Chris Bar{ett wrote: > > > >I do > > >believe that Bix Beiderbeck was in the Whiteman band but he played soprano > > >sax, not cornet. > > > > I may be shaky on the Whiteman info, but as a trumpet player, I *know* that > > Bix was a coronet player, and hung with Hoagy Carmicheal. > > > I may be shaky on my Stravinsky/Shostakovitch/Whiteman info, but as a > cornet player, I *know* a coronet is a thing that goes on yr head > > Err, I think... :-) > > > - > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Final Tally Date: 06 Apr 1998 17:25:46 UT The top 40 Artists in the John Zorn countdown are as follows: 62 Davis, Miles 59 Zorn, John 46 Naked City 44 Coltrane, John 39 Coleman, Ornette 39 Zappa, Frank (including Mothers) 23 King Crimson 22 Beatles 22 Mingus, Charles 22 Waits, Tom 16 Masada 16 Mr. Bungle 15 Captain Beefheart 15 Eno, Brian (including Fripp/Eno and Byrne/Eno) 14 Reich, Steve 13 Bailey, Derek (including w/ Ruins) 13 Frisell, Bill 13 Stravinksy, Igor 12 Material 12 Sonic Youth 11 Ayler, Albert 11 Bach 11 Dolphy, Eric 11 Kronos Quartet (including items listed under composer, but they were mentioned as players) 11 Taylor, Cecil (including the Feel Trio and Unit) 10 Berne, Tim (including Bloodcount and Chaos Totale) 10 Boredoms 10 Braxton, Anthony 10 Cage, John 10 Faith No More 10 Glass, Philip 10 The various forms of P-Funk (including Funkadelic (6), Parliament (1) and GC and PFunk AllStars (1)) 9 Fall 9 Hendrix, Jimi 8 Art Ensemble of Chicago 8 Can 8 Pere Ubu 8 Sharrock, Sonny 8 Sun Ra 8 Velvet Underground (including Nico) 7 Aphex Twin 7 Branca, Glenn 7 Costello, Elvis 7 Monk, Thelonius 7 Varese, Edgard 7 Xenakis, Iannis Notice Miles Davis beats out Zorn, but only barely. Also, if you wrap Naked CIty and Masada back into Zorn, as some of his other projects have been, he tops the charts with a whopping 121 mentions, nearly twice as many as Davis. Which makes sense, considering the concept behind the list. The top 23 Albums you oughta own or at least run out and buy right now: 23 Naked City - Naked City 17 Davis, Miles - Kind of Blue 15 Zorn, John - Bar Kokhba 12 Coleman, Ornette - Beauty Is a Rare Thing 12 Coltrane, John - A Love Supreme 11 Mr. Bungle - Disco Volante 10 Beatles - White Album 10 Naked City - Torture Garden 9 Captain Beefheart - Trout Mask Replica 9 Coleman, Ornette - The Shape of Jazz to Come 9 Dolphy, Eric - Out to Lunch 8 Davis, Miles - Bitches' Brew 7 Ayler, Albert - Spiritual Unity 7 Davis, Miles - In A Silent Way 7 Naked City - Radio 7 Reich, Steve - Music for 18 Musicians 6 King Crimson - Larks' Tongues in Aspic 6 Masada - Alef 6 Sharrock, Sonny - Ask the Ages 6 Sonic Youth - Daydream Nation 6 Waits, Tom - Rain Dogs 6 Zappa, Frank - Weasels Ripped My Flesh 6 Zorn, John - Spy vs. Spy then, 27 more for the top 50: 5 Dylan, Bob - Blood on the Tracks 5 Eno, Brian - Another Green World 5 Faith No More - King For a Day 5 Material - Seven Souls 5 Mingus, Charles - Presents Charles Mingus 5 Mr. Bungle - Mr. Bungle 5 Stravinksy, Igor - Rite Of Spring 5 Waits, Tom - Bone Machine 5 Zorn, John - Elegy 5 Zorn, John - News for Lulu 4 Aphex Twin - Saw II 4 Beach Boys - Pet Sounds 4 Beatles - Revolver 4 Coleman, Ornette - Free Jazz 4 Davis, Miles - Pangaea 4 Faith No More - Angel Dust 4 Frisell, Bill - Have A Little Faith 4 Glass, Philip - Einstein on the Beach 4 King Crimson - Discipline 4 King Crimson - Red 4 Primus - Frizzle Fry 4 Soft Machine - Third 4 Waits, Tom - Frank's Wild Years 4 Waits, Tom - Swordfishtrombones 4 Xenakis, Iannis - La Legende D'Eer 4 Zappa, Frank - Uncle Meat 4 Zorn, John - Spillane Polls are now closed. Eat up! Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Re: top 20 tallies Date: 06 Apr 1998 15:49:19 -0500 Peter, I would like a copy. Could you send both formats, please? I appreciate all the time you've spent on this! Thanks, Dan At 12:30 PM -0500 4/6/98, peter_risser@cinfin.com wrote: >Again, I have the full list in either Windows XL or text file format. >Let me know if you want a copy. > >Peter > > >peter_risser@cinfin.com > >- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Tors <jtors@usinteractive.com> Subject: Williams EMERGENCY! Date: 06 Apr 1998 15:28:36 -0600 Is Tony Williams "singing" on this album? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Tors <jtors@usinteractive.com> Subject: Williams EMERGENCY! Date: 06 Apr 1998 15:28:36 -0600 Is Tony Williams "singing" on this album? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Stravinsky/Shostakovitch do jazz?? Date: 06 Apr 1998 15:36:54 -0800 J.T. Boer writes: > I thought Bix Beiderbecke was a clarinetplayer? > > Jeroen de Boer > For the love of Mike! Bix played the cornet! Mezz played the clarinet! It's those letters at the end of the alphabet that can be confusing. This is true too: Bix was a fair pianist. "in a Mist" is a nice tune he wrote and recorded playing the piano. But let's settles this once and for all. Look for a Bluebird CD "Bix Lives!" with a picture of a guy on the cover holding a cornet. Decipher symbology from there. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "m. rizzi" <rizzi@netcom.com> Subject: No More Lists Date: 06 Apr 1998 11:57:03 -0700 (PDT) Okay campers, time for the list owner to clapmpdown. I'm getting deluged with unsubcription requests and bounced messages from full mailboxes. This is a discussion mailing list meant to have a high signal-to-noise ratio (especially compared to the USENET newsgroups). Lists without commentary are considered noise by me. Therefore... *** No more list postings to the zorn-list. *** If someone wants to do a survey, they can collect the results privately and post a summary. If you want to discuss a great live show you saw, discuss it. If you want to talk about a disappointing album you bought, talk about it. Let's not generate a list for every topic that interests us. Instead, let's go back to talking about those very topics. cheers, mike rizzi zorn-list-owner-and-no-fun-guy p.s. other than the recent list making frenzy, the zorn-list has been the pillar of an excellent mailing list. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Final Tally Date: 06 Apr 1998 17:25:46 UT The top 40 Artists in the John Zorn countdown are as follows: 62 Davis, Miles 59 Zorn, John 46 Naked City 44 Coltrane, John 39 Coleman, Ornette 39 Zappa, Frank (including Mothers) 23 King Crimson 22 Beatles 22 Mingus, Charles 22 Waits, Tom 16 Masada 16 Mr. Bungle 15 Captain Beefheart 15 Eno, Brian (including Fripp/Eno and Byrne/Eno) 14 Reich, Steve 13 Bailey, Derek (including w/ Ruins) 13 Frisell, Bill 13 Stravinksy, Igor 12 Material 12 Sonic Youth 11 Ayler, Albert 11 Bach 11 Dolphy, Eric 11 Kronos Quartet (including items listed under composer, but they were mentioned as players) 11 Taylor, Cecil (including the Feel Trio and Unit) 10 Berne, Tim (including Bloodcount and Chaos Totale) 10 Boredoms 10 Braxton, Anthony 10 Cage, John 10 Faith No More 10 Glass, Philip 10 The various forms of P-Funk (including Funkadelic (6), Parliament (1) and GC and PFunk AllStars (1)) 9 Fall 9 Hendrix, Jimi 8 Art Ensemble of Chicago 8 Can 8 Pere Ubu 8 Sharrock, Sonny 8 Sun Ra 8 Velvet Underground (including Nico) 7 Aphex Twin 7 Branca, Glenn 7 Costello, Elvis 7 Monk, Thelonius 7 Varese, Edgard 7 Xenakis, Iannis Notice Miles Davis beats out Zorn, but only barely. Also, if you wrap Naked CIty and Masada back into Zorn, as some of his other projects have been, he tops the charts with a whopping 121 mentions, nearly twice as many as Davis. Which makes sense, considering the concept behind the list. The top 23 Albums you oughta own or at least run out and buy right now: 23 Naked City - Naked City 17 Davis, Miles - Kind of Blue 15 Zorn, John - Bar Kokhba 12 Coleman, Ornette - Beauty Is a Rare Thing 12 Coltrane, John - A Love Supreme 11 Mr. Bungle - Disco Volante 10 Beatles - White Album 10 Naked City - Torture Garden 9 Captain Beefheart - Trout Mask Replica 9 Coleman, Ornette - The Shape of Jazz to Come 9 Dolphy, Eric - Out to Lunch 8 Davis, Miles - Bitches' Brew 7 Ayler, Albert - Spiritual Unity 7 Davis, Miles - In A Silent Way 7 Naked City - Radio 7 Reich, Steve - Music for 18 Musicians 6 King Crimson - Larks' Tongues in Aspic 6 Masada - Alef 6 Sharrock, Sonny - Ask the Ages 6 Sonic Youth - Daydream Nation 6 Waits, Tom - Rain Dogs 6 Zappa, Frank - Weasels Ripped My Flesh 6 Zorn, John - Spy vs. Spy then, 27 more for the top 50: 5 Dylan, Bob - Blood on the Tracks 5 Eno, Brian - Another Green World 5 Faith No More - King For a Day 5 Material - Seven Souls 5 Mingus, Charles - Presents Charles Mingus 5 Mr. Bungle - Mr. Bungle 5 Stravinksy, Igor - Rite Of Spring 5 Waits, Tom - Bone Machine 5 Zorn, John - Elegy 5 Zorn, John - News for Lulu 4 Aphex Twin - Saw II 4 Beach Boys - Pet Sounds 4 Beatles - Revolver 4 Coleman, Ornette - Free Jazz 4 Davis, Miles - Pangaea 4 Faith No More - Angel Dust 4 Frisell, Bill - Have A Little Faith 4 Glass, Philip - Einstein on the Beach 4 King Crimson - Discipline 4 King Crimson - Red 4 Primus - Frizzle Fry 4 Soft Machine - Third 4 Waits, Tom - Frank's Wild Years 4 Waits, Tom - Swordfishtrombones 4 Xenakis, Iannis - La Legende D'Eer 4 Zappa, Frank - Uncle Meat 4 Zorn, John - Spillane Polls are now closed. Eat up! Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Stravinsky/Shostakovitch do jazz?? Date: 06 Apr 1998 12:35:39 -0400 (EDT) Here we go again. Bix = cornet and some piano. Never even seen with a clarinet (unless Pee Wee Russell was holding it). Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, J.T. de Boer wrote: > I thought Bix Beiderbecke was a clarinetplayer? > > Jeroen de Boer > > > On Fri, 3 Apr 1998, Chris Bar{ett wrote: > > > >I do > > >believe that Bix Beiderbeck was in the Whiteman band but he played soprano > > >sax, not cornet. > > > > I may be shaky on the Whiteman info, but as a trumpet player, I *know* that > > Bix was a coronet player, and hung with Hoagy Carmicheal. > > > I may be shaky on my Stravinsky/Shostakovitch/Whiteman info, but as a > cornet player, I *know* a coronet is a thing that goes on yr head > > Err, I think... :-) > > > - > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Mezz Date: 06 Apr 1998 12:32:48 -0400 (EDT) Take anything Mezz sez with a large grain of salt (or maybe the type of spliff Mezrow would have preferred). Let's just say he and the truth were little more than distant cousins. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, James Douglas Knox wrote: > Oh, this was the source of my confusion: I've just been reading Milton > "Mezz" Mezzrow's "Really The Blues" (a fantastic, idiomatic insider's > account of the early days of jazz - written in patois of the day), and he > talks about how great was the performance of Stravinsky's piece by > Herman's band. > > He talks about some pretty crazy binges with Bix as well, so, yeah - what > Ken says is spot-on. > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Caveman music (was: TOP 20) Date: 06 Apr 1998 17:18:55 -0700 >At 01:26 PM 4/6/98 +1000, James Douglas Knox wrote: >> >>On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Patrick Stockton wrote: >> >>> Caveman Shoestore - "Flux" >>> Caveman Hughscore - self-titled (this is Caveman Shoestore with Hugh >>> Hopper) >>> Hughscore - "High Spot Paradox" >> >>This doesn't mean a damn thing to me: please tell me more... >> > The only thing I know about these releases is that they involve Wayne >Horvitz bass veteran Fred Chalenor (Zony Mash, Pigpen, etc.). > Was waiting for someone else to chime in on this thread, but here goes... Caveman Shoestore was Fred Chalenor(bass), Henry Franzoni(drums) and Elaine DiFalco(vocals, keys). Fred and Henry were in numerous Northwest experimental/improv rock bands including Face Ditch, Boodlers, and the best live, though never recorded, version of the Tone Dogs. They released 2 albums as Caveman (Master Cylinder and Flux), and a third as Caveman Hughscore, which added ex-Soft Machine bassist and composer Hugh Hopper. Caveman Split up a couple of years ago, but Fred, Elaine and Hugh Hopper continued collaborating, and recently released a CD as just "Hughscore". Fred also plays with Zony Mash, Freestyle Candela and many other Seattle bands, and is one of the best electric bassists on the planet, in my opinion. Henry currently plays in Minus, with a CD on New & Improv Music. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: ECM Date: 06 Apr 1998 12:13:25 -0400 (EDT) More guitar stuff. I think rough & ready was what is desired. If any of the below can mix the intelligence, grit and ideas of folks like Archie Shep, Frank Wright, Glen Spearmann, Charles Gayle etc. etc. I'd like to know about it. Of course maybe we're comparing apples and oranges (or is it fuzzboxes and saxophone keys), but IMHO I don't think any of the below are going to lead anyone to the Art Esemble or other "outside" music. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net If there were fewer guitars and more saxophones around, the world would be a better place On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, Sean Terwilliger wrote: > > >Outside of a couple of Old & New Dreams and Dewey Redman albums, the Art > > >Ensemble has the only stuff on ECM that isn't a replacement for sleeping > > >pills. > > What about... > Steve Tibbetts > David Torn > Krakatau > Bill Frisell > Early Pat Metheny (ie: Offramp, 80/81) > > -Sean > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Landon Thorpe <landocal@mail.utexas.edu> Subject: Re: DC 2/math rock Date: 06 Apr 1998 19:26:54 -0500 >> My favorite math rock: >> >> Dr. Nerve - Skin : It gets NO mathier than this. An amazing amazing record with >> an ensemble that plays more fucked up and tighter than Naked City, with rhythms >> shifting from 13/8 into 7/4 into 5/8 into god knows what else. > >What's so special about that? Bands like Dream Theater routinely write songs >that feature every meter from 5/4, 5/8, 7/8, 9/8, 11/8, 13/8, 15/16, etc. in >one and the same song. Listen to "Metropolis Pt. I" from Images and Words, >for example. Yet this is not called math-rock, its called over-pretentious >progressive crap. There isn't a single symphonic rock band that sticks to 4/4, >so I get a bit tired every time someone says "wow, this song is in 5/4, check >it out". > >What about Zappa using completely fucked up meters like 23/16. As a matter >of fact, even Genesis uses something this far out during the solo of "Robbery, >Assault, and Battery". Yeah, I don't know what math rock means either. I've just always assumed it was a pejorative term meant to evoke the cheesiness of some prog rock or some sort of anti-technique sentiment (from the indie rock world). As far as DC 2 is concerned, I like to think of it as "maximal minimalism:" long, loud lines repeated over very dynamic drumming (I think Damon Che is one of the best, or at least one of the most creative and energetic drummers around). Someone sometime ago said that DC 2 inverted the traditional role of the guitar/guitar/bass/drums lineup. The guitars use the regularity of their repeated lines to keep time while the drums take the "lead" role. Actually, I think both guitars and drums do a little bit of both. On a side note, DC 2 and Disco Volante came out in stores around the same time. I bought both in one trip, and I haven't yet had a better "catch" from the record store in terms of quality. Landon Thorpe - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Sainkho Date: 06 Apr 1998 18:02:03 -0700 At 1:22 PM 4/4/98, Tom Pratt wrote: >I have recently been digging Sainkho Namchylak's music and was wondering >what else is out there I don't know about. I have her duo with Evan >Parker on Victo, a disc w/MCO called 'Let Permesky Dream' and her FMP >solo disc. I know of 'Letters' on Leo, another MCO, a duo w/Rothenberg >and a disc with Werner Ludi, Butch Morris & Peter Kowald. What else is >out there????? > > -Tom Pratt Though it's not buying just for her, the Leo 8-CD Document box of '80s russian avante garde jazz has a fantastic performance by her with Tri-0, a wind trio. Actually, this remains my favorite recording of hers. The rest of the box is mixed for me, with some excellent stuff (Dearly Departed, one of the most completely heart-rending pieces of music I've heard, and the Jazz Group Arkhangelsk) some good stuff by groups with better material available elsewhere (Ganelin Trio and Sergey Kuryokhin), and some pretty forgettable stuff. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Math Rock/ DC II Date: 07 Apr 1998 11:06:48 +1000 > What's so special about that? Bands like Dream Theater routinely write songs > that feature every meter from 5/4, 5/8, 7/8, 9/8, 11/8, 13/8, 15/16, etc. in > one and the same song. Listen to "Metropolis Pt. I" from Images and Words, > for example. Yet this is not called math-rock, its called over-pretentious > progressive crap. There isn't a single symphonic rock band that sticks to 4/4, > so I get a bit tired every time someone says "wow, this song is in 5/4, check > it out". Yes yes, agreed. But you can do some interesting things with odd times - when I went to the KF page recently I heard a sample of Pachora (newish quartet with Chris Speed on clarinet) which just happened to be in 5 if I remember correctly. If it had been a straight 4 I probably would have said "nice tune, but it's pretty boring". Since it was in 5 it had an added momentum to it, so that when it got to the end I was literally speechless, and incidentally I very soon ordered the CD. Obviously you can do some interesting stuff with 4 as well (a piece whose name escapes me from Masada 2 comes to mind). When odd times were the "in-thing", people might've said "wow, check it out", but now really they're just part of the general vocabulary. Are you saying now that a song in an odd time doesn't deserve a listen because it's just being pretentious? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: ECM Date: 06 Apr 1998 08:56:36 -0700 On Mon, 06 Apr 1998 08:34:46 -0400 Alan E Kayser wrote: > > Keith McMullen wrote: > > > >> >Outside of a couple of Old & New Dreams and Dewey Redman albums, > > the Art > > >> >Ensemble has the only stuff on ECM that isn't a replacement for > > sleeping > > >> >pills. > > > > > >What about... > > >Steve Tibbetts > > >David Torn > > >Krakatau > > >Bill Frisell > > >Early Pat Metheny (ie: Offramp, 80/81) > > > > > >-Sean > > > > That's right. I can't go to sleep with that shit on. > > > > Keith > > I must agree that the current version of ECM is pretty lame. However, > way back in ancient history, the 70s, they put out quite a few excellent > LPs. In fact some of it was cutting edge, at least at the time it was. > There are many that I could name, but just a few are: > > Dave Holland's Conference of the Birds > Barre Phillips' Mountainscapes > Jack DeJohnette's New Directions > Ralph Towner's Batik > Eberhard Weber's Yellow Fields > Pat Metheny's 80/81 > Chick Corea's Return to Forever (the LP, not the band) > CIRCLE And you forgot: MUSIC IMPROVISATION COMPANY DUO DEREK BAILEY DAVE HOLLAND You had to have some guts to put out such records in the early '70s. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: weird? Date: 06 Apr 1998 08:49:41 -0700 On Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:58:14 GMT0BST DR S WILKIE wrote: > > anybody have info. on the forthcoming zorn release "weird little boy" > (avant 43?) Typo? CADENCE lists this record as having Chris Cochrane, instead of Mike Patton. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Steve Reich Date: 06 Apr 1998 08:38:11 -0700 On Mon, 6 Apr 1998 02:58:50 -0500 Jack Schonewolf wrote: > > Dear Listservers, > First off, I want to thank everyone for the great discussion lately on the > listserve, as it helped me through a real bad week. Anyway, one name that I > saw come up on a few lists, I believe, was Steve Reich, who I am not > familiar with. What is his music like? Good albums to start with? What are > people's thoughts on his work? I would be very appreciative of whatever you > could tell me. Just bought a new version of MUSIC FOR 18 MUSICIANS which seems to create unanimity (along with KIND OF BLUE and A LOVE SUPREME). I guess it is the version from the 10xCD box (on Nonesuch). If you want to have an idea of what Steve Reich is, there is not better buy. Hard to imagine a more luscious and serene piece of music. Just when many people were ready to believe (in the '70s) that there was only two alternatives to contemporary music: Cage or Stockhausen (and their respec- tive epigones), here comes a bunch of composers with a totally different approach to music (Reich, Glass). 20 years after, this piece is already a classic in a genre that has very few (I mean, after WW2). I was really surprised how similar this new interpretation is (as compared to the ECM one). I am even wondering if, duration aside, I could detect a difference. This will be a good argument for those who judge Reich's music too mechanical :-). BTW, am I the only one to be surprised at the fact that there is no book on Reich (I am excluding, of course, his collection of essays)? I was expecting that with his 60th anniversary, somebody would come up with a book. That might be Reich's lot: people listen to his music instead of writing about :-). A way to acknowledge that the music speaks for itself (instead of the opposite). > By the way, I highly recommend both of the Anthony Coleman Tzadik Radical > Jewish Culture Series records, Sephardic Tinge and Selfhaters. They are the SEPHARDIC TINGE is a wonderfull jazz trio. It is, to my knowledge, the only record on which Coleman really plays piano: no gimmick, no play around, just piano, bass, drums and great music. Can't stop avoiding to compare it with another great recent trio: WHO'S BRIDGE by Misha Mengelberg. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Disappointments and Controversy Date: 06 Apr 1998 18:24:32 -0700 > P.D: =BFWhat are the opinions on Arto's and Tortoise's latest? I >personally love them both. > The new Tortoise is the first of their records that I have really liked a lot. I didn't actively dislike their earlier stuff, just thought it was a bit over rated, especially by the Wire. But the pieces on the new disc are very nice, much more composed, don't wander as much as the earlier stuff, there are more interesting textures, and some of the tunes are pretty catchy. As usual, it's pretty easy to spot their influences, Morricone and Steve Reich in particular on this CD, but I hear more of a unique band voice on TNT. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: weird? Date: 06 Apr 1998 08:49:41 -0700 On Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:58:14 GMT0BST DR S WILKIE wrote: > > anybody have info. on the forthcoming zorn release "weird little boy" > (avant 43?) Typo? CADENCE lists this record as having Chris Cochrane, instead of Mike Patton. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Caveman music (was: TOP 20) Date: 06 Apr 1998 08:20:17 -0700 On Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:26:55 +1000 (EST) James Douglas Knox wrote: > > > On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Patrick Stockton wrote: > > > Caveman Shoestore - "Flux" > > Caveman Hughscore - self-titled (this is Caveman Shoestore with Hugh > > Hopper) > > Hughscore - "High Spot Paradox" > > This doesn't mean a damn thing to me: please tell me more... Me either... The only way this could make sense is that Patrick is a good friend of the band :-). If it is not the case, I am totally puzzled... Not that I don't like C.S., but on the scale of music achievement, I do not believe that they are at the top (even Coltrane or Miles did not get three records listed!!!). I like the first C.S. better and found the lyrics on FLUX (their second) really annoying. The Hughscore are OK, in the same way as meeting an old friend from whom you expect nothing but having good time. But nothing to change the direction in music, more like a "hello to the past". Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Steve Reich Date: 06 Apr 1998 07:19:02 -0800 Jack, Steve Reich is one of the foremost Minimalist composers. If you're familiar with Phillip Glass, who's probably more popular, than you have some idea of the nature of the music, although they are very different composers. Reich's background is as a percussionist, which I believe leads to the highly syncopated style of his music. Over the past ten years or so, his work has gotten more complex harmonically and now melodically, and he's also become more of a dramatic composer. His "Music for 18 Musicians" has been on many lists here, and it's a great work and a great example of his music. Plus it's really very beautiful and powerful. It's probably the best introduction to him, along with "Different Trains" which is a dramatic work for the Kronos 4tet, using sampled sounds and speech. That's on a CD with "Electric Counterpoint," a guitar piece which is played by Pat Metheny, so I would venture that recording is perhaps his best seller. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Partners in subversion Date: 06 Apr 1998 11:17:21 -0400 This press release came to me on another mailing list, and since we periodically discuss plunderphonics, including Negativland, I thought some of us might be interested. ------ Start of Forwarded Message ------ FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE April 6, 1998 Contacts: RTMARK (rtmark@paranoia.com) Illegal Art (illegalart@detritus.net) Negativland (mark@negativland.com) RTMARK ANNOUNCES NEW PARTNERSHIP Series with Illegal Art and Negativland builds on earlier successes, encouraged by Geffen's tolerance Three big players in the field of corporate subversion are joining forces. Negativland has agreed to help Illegal Art and RTMARK with their new "Deconstructing" series, which builds on the unexpectedly large success of Deconstructing Beck, a compilation of illegally sampled Beck released by Illegal Art and sponsored by RTMARK. The new series, for which RTMARK has gathered $5,500 in "seed" funds, will sample well-known copyrighted material for artistic purposes; Negativland will help distribute some of the releases. First in the series is Deconstructing Beck itself, already re-released on Negativland's label, Seeland. The next release, slated for August, will "deconstruct" Hollywood film music. New releases are planned every six months thereafter, with RTMARK providing more funding as needed. The music industry's relative calm in the face of Deconstructing Beck--which has been featured on radio stations worldwide and has made it onto many of their "top 10" charts--has encouraged Illegal Art and RTMARK to establish the series. Beck's label, Geffen, reacted aggressively at first to the CD, but has since then been silent. In a recent e-mail to RTMARK, Geffen's Jim Griffin wrote: "Frankly, everyone seems to have forgotten about it and I suspect that at most our attorneys felt obligated to write you some kind of note. But no one here so much as busted a sweat when they heard about it.... They probably felt the need to raise some amount of token objection so it didn't set a precedent." Meanwhile, unbeknownst to Geffen, Beck's publisher (BMG) is still trying to force Illegal Art to cease distribution, but so far can't find a physical address to which to deliver a threatening letter, the necessary prelude to any legal action. (See http://www.paranoia.com/~rtmark/lawletters.html for some of the correspondence, including a response by Negativland to Geffen's lawyers. Also see http://www.paranoia.com/~rtmark/faq.html for articles about Deconstructing Beck.) Geffen's passivity may reflect emerging industry standards, according to RTMARK spokesperson Ray Thomas. A few years ago, U2's lawyers pursued Negativland for an album which sampled U2's music extensively. When U2 itself found out, they called off the lawyers, but it turned out that U2's reputation had already been tarnished by the episode. When Negativland later did a similar thing with Pepsi jingles, Pepsi, perhaps wisely, chose not to react. Something similar may be happening with Geffen, according to Thomas, and "BMG is just being thick." Negativland spokesperson Mark H. likewise believes that Geffen has learned its lesson. "Geffen knows this sort of thing is no threat to the sampled artist. For their lawyers to really pursue this would only make Beck look mean-spirited, and they know it." There is another possible explanation as well. Beck, who was sent a copy of Deconstructing Beck shortly after its initial release in February, is rumored to like the CD. RTMARK was established in 1991 to further intelligent subversion, in some cases by channelling funds from donors to workers for sabotage of corporate products. Recent and upcoming acts of RTMARK-aided subversion are documented on RTMARK's web site, http://www.paranoia.com/~rtmark. ------- End of forwarded message ------- --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Steve Reich Date: 06 Apr 1998 08:38:11 -0700 On Mon, 6 Apr 1998 02:58:50 -0500 Jack Schonewolf wrote: > > Dear Listservers, > First off, I want to thank everyone for the great discussion lately on the > listserve, as it helped me through a real bad week. Anyway, one name that I > saw come up on a few lists, I believe, was Steve Reich, who I am not > familiar with. What is his music like? Good albums to start with? What are > people's thoughts on his work? I would be very appreciative of whatever you > could tell me. Just bought a new version of MUSIC FOR 18 MUSICIANS which seems to create unanimity (along with KIND OF BLUE and A LOVE SUPREME). I guess it is the version from the 10xCD box (on Nonesuch). If you want to have an idea of what Steve Reich is, there is not better buy. Hard to imagine a more luscious and serene piece of music. Just when many people were ready to believe (in the '70s) that there was only two alternatives to contemporary music: Cage or Stockhausen (and their respec- tive epigones), here comes a bunch of composers with a totally different approach to music (Reich, Glass). 20 years after, this piece is already a classic in a genre that has very few (I mean, after WW2). I was really surprised how similar this new interpretation is (as compared to the ECM one). I am even wondering if, duration aside, I could detect a difference. This will be a good argument for those who judge Reich's music too mechanical :-). BTW, am I the only one to be surprised at the fact that there is no book on Reich (I am excluding, of course, his collection of essays)? I was expecting that with his 60th anniversary, somebody would come up with a book. That might be Reich's lot: people listen to his music instead of writing about :-). A way to acknowledge that the music speaks for itself (instead of the opposite). > By the way, I highly recommend both of the Anthony Coleman Tzadik Radical > Jewish Culture Series records, Sephardic Tinge and Selfhaters. They are the SEPHARDIC TINGE is a wonderfull jazz trio. It is, to my knowledge, the only record on which Coleman really plays piano: no gimmick, no play around, just piano, bass, drums and great music. Can't stop avoiding to compare it with another great recent trio: WHO'S BRIDGE by Misha Mengelberg. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Cline <pmc7288@is.nyu.edu> Subject: Re: 6 disappointments 6 Date: 06 Apr 1998 22:12:36 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, BJOERN wrote: > well since this is in my top 20 i want to say that this is a perfect > album...maybe it is no typical FNM album but it is their only album that > also jazz/avantgarde non-rock listeners like...believe me\ > > > BJOERN I have to diagree. Of all FNM albums, King for a day is my least favorite. Angel Dust is one of the greatest albums I've ever heard. The Real Thing is a good enjoyable listen, and Album of the Year has some good moments, but I find King for a Day to be largely uninteresting. But hey, you are entitled to your opinion. Angel Dust is so much more adventorous, if any FNM will appeal to jazz/avantgarde listeners, I'd suspect that this is the one. Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: No More Lists Date: 06 Apr 1998 19:40:15 -0700 -----Original Message----- >Okay campers, time for the list owner to clapmpdown. Thanks for waiting until the lists were over and compiled to clamp down. I've got people asking me how TO subscribe. Back to the discussions. Keith - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Williams EMERGENCY! Date: 06 Apr 1998 19:54:49 -0800 Jason Tors writes: > Is Tony Williams "singing" on this album? Why yes, that is Tony Williams "singing" on that album! gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: DC 2 Date: 06 Apr 1998 23:11:38 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, Landon Thorpe wrote: > Someone sometime ago said that DC 2 inverted the > traditional role of the guitar/guitar/bass/drums lineup. The guitars use > the regularity of their repeated lines to keep time while the drums take > the "lead" role. Actually, I think both guitars and drums do a little bit > of both. Interesting observations. Supposedly the original concept behind Storm & Stress was Sonic Youth inverted in just this way. (But, according to another version of the story from the same source, the original concept was a combination of German Romanticism and GQ fashion, so . . .) Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ash <ash157@yahoo.com> Subject: King Crimson Date: 06 Apr 1998 18:54:54 -0700 (PDT) I noticed that King Crimson was in a couple of the lists posted to the mailing list so I feel its okay to ask this: What would be a good introductory album by King Crimson? Im a guitarist and am interested in good songs but also interesting playing. Also, I like Adrian Belew, what KC album with him is a good one? Thanks. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: reich/trane Date: 06 Apr 1998 21:42:57 -0400 > Just bought a new version of MUSIC FOR 18 MUSICIANS which seems to create > unanimity (along with KIND OF BLUE and A LOVE SUPREME). I guess it is the > version from the 10xCD box (on Nonesuch). What's this 10xCD box? All Reich? What's on it? btw, no one answered my Coltrane question... Is the material from the 2-LP 'Concert In Japan' on the 4-CD 'Live In Japan'(Impulse)? -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Winter & Winter Date: 07 Apr 1998 01:21:41 -0400 Dan Hewins wrote: > Does anyone know who carries Winter & Winter discs? (online or mail order) > I have been trying to find the Big Satan disc and I am interested to see > what else they have... Allegro, starting in May, here in the states. But I was under the impression that the label's been widely available in Canada for some time now... Steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: ECM/Frisell Date: 06 Apr 1998 21:26:05 -0400 Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > And you forgot: > > MUSIC IMPROVISATION COMPANY > DUO DEREK BAILEY DAVE HOLLAND > > You had to have some guts to put out such records in the early '70s. > > Patrice. And also: AMM III - It Had Been an Ordianry Enough Day in Pueblo, CO Evan Parker Electro-Acoustic Ensemble - Between The Margins I really love that Bailey duo with Holland! I just picked up the Music Improvisation Company LP the other day but my turntable just busted so I haven't had a chance to listen to it yet ): About the Frisell thing, I personally love the guy but not all of his CD's. I thought 'Is That You?' was pretty dismal and the latest installment of 'Nashville' and 'Gone, Just Like A Train' are nice but I miss his edge. 'Have A Little Faith' and 'This Land' I thought were solid efforts but not notably strong HOWEVER, 'Where In The World?' is absolutely awesome! It's Frisell with Hank Roberts, Kermit Driscoll and Joey Baron. It's certainly my own favorite of Frisell's and if "Spell" doesn't get you, I don't know what will. I will admit, it took some growing on me before I totally loved it. It may have been on my top 20 list. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: King Crimson Date: 07 Apr 1998 01:53:16 -0400 Ash wrote: > I noticed that King Crimson was in a couple of the lists posted to the > mailing list so I feel its okay to ask this: What would be a good > introductory album by King Crimson? Im a guitarist and am interested > in good songs but also interesting playing. Well obviously I'm going to say "Larks' Tongues in Aspic," since it's my personal Rosetta Stone. But there's fine playing on all Crimson discs - it just depends what else you want on there. If your taste goes to synth-prog of the Yes/ELP/Genesis axis, start with "In the Court of the Crimson King." If you're into more improv oriented stuff, sometimes like Mahavishnu Orchestra with a singer added, head for "Larks' Tongues" and discover why my attempt at a quick, pat description is doomed to be inadequate. If "Remain in Light"-era Talking Heads is your cup of tea and you don't mind guitars that almost never sound like guitars, skip directly to "Discipline." That third recommendation answers the part of your question that pertained to Belew, as well. > Also, I like Adrian > Belew, what KC album with him is a good one? "Discipline" is the place to start. And it's the best in most people's opinions. I prefer "Beat," its followup. And "Three of a Perfect Pair," while far from a great record, is a collection of great parts. There's some superior Belew noise guitar on side two to couterbalance the superior Belew pop songsmanship on side one. The recent "Thrak" isn't bad but suffers from wanting to be "Discipline" and "Red" at the same time. The next studio record by the full Crimson lineup ought to be an improvement. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com > > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Steve Reich Date: 06 Apr 1998 08:38:11 -0700 On Mon, 6 Apr 1998 02:58:50 -0500 Jack Schonewolf wrote: > > Dear Listservers, > First off, I want to thank everyone for the great discussion lately on the > listserve, as it helped me through a real bad week. Anyway, one name that I > saw come up on a few lists, I believe, was Steve Reich, who I am not > familiar with. What is his music like? Good albums to start with? What are > people's thoughts on his work? I would be very appreciative of whatever you > could tell me. Just bought a new version of MUSIC FOR 18 MUSICIANS which seems to create unanimity (along with KIND OF BLUE and A LOVE SUPREME). I guess it is the version from the 10xCD box (on Nonesuch). If you want to have an idea of what Steve Reich is, there is not better buy. Hard to imagine a more luscious and serene piece of music. Just when many people were ready to believe (in the '70s) that there was only two alternatives to contemporary music: Cage or Stockhausen (and their respec- tive epigones), here comes a bunch of composers with a totally different approach to music (Reich, Glass). 20 years after, this piece is already a classic in a genre that has very few (I mean, after WW2). I was really surprised how similar this new interpretation is (as compared to the ECM one). I am even wondering if, duration aside, I could detect a difference. This will be a good argument for those who judge Reich's music too mechanical :-). BTW, am I the only one to be surprised at the fact that there is no book on Reich (I am excluding, of course, his collection of essays)? I was expecting that with his 60th anniversary, somebody would come up with a book. That might be Reich's lot: people listen to his music instead of writing about :-). A way to acknowledge that the music speaks for itself (instead of the opposite). > By the way, I highly recommend both of the Anthony Coleman Tzadik Radical > Jewish Culture Series records, Sephardic Tinge and Selfhaters. They are the SEPHARDIC TINGE is a wonderfull jazz trio. It is, to my knowledge, the only record on which Coleman really plays piano: no gimmick, no play around, just piano, bass, drums and great music. Can't stop avoiding to compare it with another great recent trio: WHO'S BRIDGE by Misha Mengelberg. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Oh, oh...another late top 20 entry Date: 06 Apr 1998 08:11:53 -0700 On Sun, 05 Apr 1998 19:57:21 PDT "Silent Watcher" wrote: > > Sorry for the late submission, but I responded privately to the initial > request for a Desert Island discs top 20, and was too busy to struggle > to come up with another top 20 (it changes somewhat from day to day!) > > 1) Masada - Alef > 2) Isaac Hayes - Greatest Hits Volume I > 3) Alice Coltrane - Journey In Satchidananda > 4) John Coltrane - A Love Supreme > 5) Sonny Sharrock - Ask the Ages > 6) Bob Marley - Legend > 7) Frank Zappa - Freak Out > 8) Material - Seven Souls (remastered) > 9) Stravinsky - The Rite of Spring (conducted by Stravinsky) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ You mean, the one with the wrong tempo :-). Patrice (who only likes Stravinski interpreted by anybody but him (think about THE WEDDING sung in English... beurk...)). > 10) Mad Professor - The Lost Scrolls of Moses > 11) The Golden Palominos - This Is How It Feels > 12) Bootsy Collins - Back In the Day : Best of > 13) Laswell/Tetsu Inoue - Cymatic Scan > 14) Lull - Cold Summer > 15) Naked City - Radio > 16) Stevie Wonder - Original Musiquarium > 17) Slotek - 7 > 18) Beatles - The Beatles > 19) Beatles - Revolver > 20) Lee Perry - Upsetter In Dub > > Ask me again tomorrow, and it'll change. > > Live Shows : > Bootsy Collins - The Axis in Boston September 1994 > P-Funk - Garden State Arts Center August 1996 > Painkiller - The Middle East, Cambridge, Mass. May 1995 > Masada - September 1997 (I expect the next round of shows at the end of > the month to live up to this one!) > Alice Cooper - Meadowlands 1990-ish (Never liked him, it was part of a > package tour in my "metal" youth...he put on an amazing stage show-it's > a shame most of his material is terrible) > Nuclear Assault/Savatage/Testament - 1989 (first show I ever saw - it > HAD to make the list, regardless of what I think of that music now!) > Tribe After Tribe - The Axis, 1993 > Buckethead/Invisible Skratch Picklz - Wetlands, 1996 > Zorn/Patton/Mori - Knitting Factory, August 1996 (kind of an off show > compared to what I hear about them now, but the first time I ever saw > Ikue Mori play....she's got skills!) > The Golden Palominos - TT the Bears, Cambridge, Mass....oh, wait, the > cancelled that tour a few days before the show...grrrrrr... > Praxis - The Anchorage in Brooklyn, June 1997 (I imagine they could do > better, but, come on, it was Laswell, Buckethead and Worrell on stage > together, it had it's moments) > > Ok, then, I guess that's it. Sorry again for the lateness of this one. > > SW > For Sale/Want List and Laswell Discography at > http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093 > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Bargain Bins; Other Lists (longish) Date: 07 Apr 1998 02:14:57 -0400 John McMahon wrote: > What are your current five (5) favourite Bargain Bin stories? 1. My first copy of Cecil Taylor's "Silent Tongues" was found in the "free to good home" box next to the exit at my favorite indie store in Houston, where they had the charming habit of writing on the cover of occupants of said bin in black magic marker. For years I owned a copy of "Silent Tongues" featuring a photo of Cecil Taylor with a word balloon drawn in which said, "Got my mojo workin'." 2. My first copy of Archie Shepp's "Mama Too Tight" was a cassette on Jasmine, purchased for 25 cents. 3. My first copy of the Art Ensemble of Chicago's "Phase Two" was a cassette on America, purchased for $2.99. 4. I got a used copy of "Topography of the Lungs" by Derek Bailey, Evan Parker and Han Bennink for $4.99, which I consider to have been a screaming deal. 5. I once bought a copy of The Uncanny X-Men #101 (first issue with Phoenix) in near mint condition at a used bookstore where they were embarassed to charge me 50 cents when store policy dictated that everything was priced at half of cover price ("it's our minimum price, we're really sorry..."). I got about $39 for it about an hour later (and this was in like '86). Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com P.S. If you didn't like my number five, here's a replacement: I got my first copy of Bill Frisell's "Rambler" for 99 cents in an ECM cassette closeout. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: math rock Date: 06 Apr 1998 11:11:46 -0400 (EDT) math rock is kind of a dubious phrase like free jazz. it doesn't really mean a whole lot, yet it's applied to bands coming out of the *punk* tradition who begin to play in non-standard time signatures and often (though not always) eschew vocals arguably the first real math rock would be (ex-honor role guitarist) pen rolling's band, butterglove. they pre-dated breadwinner by about a year or two and have one posthumous cd available on speed kills. that combined with breadwinner's _burner_ cd on merge make up a visceral representation of the early confessor and c.o.c.-influenced sound of richmond virginia. lots of great richmond bands followed in the wake like ladyfinger (featuring pen on drums!), sliang laos and mao st. helen. the two rollings bands were contemporaries (late 80's/early 90's) with louisville's slint, who created a more quiet, intellectual kind of math. reference _spiderland_ on touch & go for the archetype. some recent bands of note: bastro and bitch magnet provided further mapping of the math gene. bitch magnet expertly combined melody with sheer weight and crunch. bastro were more abstract and provided the proving ground for later-to-be-members-of tortoise and gastr del sol. of course don caballero, from pittsburgh are one of the most powerful rock bands i've ever seen. seeing rodan live was one of the single best musical experiences of my 25 years. splinter groups like june of 44 and shipping news are less good, but still worth checking out. polvo took the sonic youth mass of noise and made it staccato. my most recent favorite from the math pile, though, would have to be the champs, who are from san franciso. thoroughly satisfying in that crunchy, metallic don cab kind of way. they eschew vocals like don cab, but they don't eschew the irony. they didn't grow up with metal, but they're loving it now. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson <wlt4@mindspring.com> Subject: more ECM Date: 06 Apr 1998 10:53:05 -0400 Don't forget back in the day they put out albums from Music Improvisation Company, Circle, Jon Hassell and Codona. And recent good ones include: Joe Manieri/Matt Manieri/Joe Morris "Three Men Walking" Bley/Peacock/Oxley/Surman "In the Evenings Out There" Jimmy Giuffre 3 "1961" Charles Lloyd "Canto" Gyorgy Kurtag "Jatekok" and apparently the European division put out an Evan Parker with electronics album. Best LT Lang Thompson http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4 New at Funhouse: Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan obituary. "No one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. Has even grown to like it." -- Zathras - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Hollo <raven@cia.com.au> Subject: Re: Top 20. Date: 07 Apr 1998 00:50:12 +1000 OK OK so I cave in. I have about 500 CDs and in *very* varying genres so this is **extremely** difficult to do. And of course the standard disclaimer that this list changes from day to day holds :) And it was constructed with no reference to my CD collection as otherwise I would never have limited to so few! There's a lot of doubling up with the artists... the idea is that I'd not want to do without any of those works (or dozens of others!) but I want to list as many separate entities as possible... No particular order: -- John Zorn/Masada Chamber Ensembles - Bar Kokhba/Circle Maker -- Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds - Tender Prey (or Your Funeral, My Trial; or anything else you like from Boys Next Door onwards. No really, Tender Prey above all else) -- Future Sound of London - ISDN *AND* Lifeforms EP, and, dammit, everything else! -- Mu-ziq - Lunatic Harness or Mu-ziq vs the Auteurs or Bluff Limbo... -- Aphex Twin - Selected Ambient Works Vol II and Girl/Boy EP and I Care Because You Do etc etc -- Squarepusher - Big Loada EP (I love this more and more - better than both his albums IMHO) -- Various - Funkjazztical Tricknology and Flexistentialism on the wonderful Ninja Tune label -- Amon Tobin - Pirhana Breaks EP or Bricolage -- The Clouds (now sadly departed Sydney band) - Penny Century or Thunderhead or... -- Pop Will Eat Itself - This is the day, This is the hour, This is This or the limited edition UK double CD of Two Fingers My Friends -- They Might be Giants - Flood or Then - the Early Years -- Not Drowning, Waving (Melbourne band, also sadly no longer with us) - Claim (or any other of their albums) -- Cocteau Twins - Blue Bell Knoll -- This Mortal Coil - Blood -- (Various) - Soundtrack to Wings of Desire (Der Himmel Uber Berlin), film by Wim Wenders -- Various - Lost in the Stars and/or September Songs (both are the songs of Kurt Weill) [* - see note] -- Ravel - Piano Concerti and selected orchestral works; Piano - Pascal Roge, Montreal Symph (?) conducted Dutoit. -- Stravinsky - Rite of Spring with Shostakovich - Symphony No 5, Cleveland Orchestra conducted Lorin Maazel. Pity it doesn't have Petrouchka too. Or Shosta 10 instead, but no 5's great... -- Mahler - Symphony No 4, Cleveland Orchestra conducted George Szell with Judith Raskin - mezzo soprano. Alternatively No 6, Vienna Symph under Pierre Boulez or No 7, Chicago Symph under Claudio Abbado. --Shostakovich - String Quartets Nos 3, 7 and 8, Borodin String Quartet (FAR, FAR better than the Kronos Qtet version I'm afraid, all respect to Kronos notwithstanding...) There are of course horrifying ommissions and Mr Bungle's self-titled album certainly deserves honourable mention... But that's quite a good range of selections. Hope you enjoy, feel free to comment in private emails ;) Peter [*NOTE: Does anyone else thing a Great Jewish Music Music: Kurt Weill compilation would be superb? I know there's two really good Weill cover albums out (see list), and that Zorn even contributed to the first one. Nevertheless... -- Peter Hollo raven@cia.com.au http://www.cia.com.au/raven/ FourPlay - Eclectic Electric String Quartet http://www.cia.com.au/raven/fourplay.html "Of course, dance music can be a music where you lie on your back and your brain cells dance" -Michael Karoli of Can, quoted in Wire mag. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrick Stockton" <sheepherder@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: weird? Date: 06 Apr 1998 07:15:13 -0700 > anybody have info. on the forthcoming zorn release "weird little boy" > (avant 43?) well it is out. at least here in Portland Oregon. I found it in the Zorn section... inquired about it and was told that is was an album of noise by Mike Patton, Zorn and others. ive considered buying it about three times but the $29 price tag still puts me off. waiting to find it used somewhere. HA!!!! that's likely!!! but then again i did find Blind Idiot God for $7 (avant) and Marc RIbot's "Shrek" for 6.50 so there is some hope. if anyone has actually heard this al;bum, a review would be helpful. thanks patrick in portland - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: enough!!!! Date: 06 Apr 1998 07:13:30 -0700 >i dont see the sence in top 20s for liveshows and disappointments since >this wont help anyone to get into great stuff he/she never heard before... > >BJOERN STOP MAKING SENSE Talking Heads at the Greek Theatre - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Ken Nordine Date: 07 Apr 1998 02:34:37 -0400 Todd Bramy wrote: > Now I have a question: radio show? "Now, Nordine" was carried by my local Pacifica station in Houston for many years... I think it might even have been an NPR program, but could be completely off my nut about that. It was a magical otherworld, that's for sure. This man has a VOICE. I know that at least some of these radio segments were later released on Nordine's own Snail label of cassette-only releases... the only one I've got is "Triple Talk," which is a pretty descriptive title... Ken 1 talks in my left ear, Ken 2 speaks to the right, and Ken 3 makes noises or chants mantras off in the distance. (Any bets on whether Ken would have had the same effect on our collective nervous system had he NOT been such a prominent voice in American TV commercials throughout the '70s and '80s?) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: enough!!!! Date: 06 Apr 1998 07:13:30 -0700 >i dont see the sence in top 20s for liveshows and disappointments since >this wont help anyone to get into great stuff he/she never heard before... > >BJOERN STOP MAKING SENSE Talking Heads at the Greek Theatre - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Don Byron Date: 07 Apr 1998 02:50:43 -0400 Alan E Kayser wrote: > William York wrote: > > > Speaking of Don Byron, since he was mentioned on the last list, does > > anyone know when he will have something new out? > > During a conversation with Uri Caine he mentioned that he had done some > work on the next Don Byron recording. Are you ready for this...covers > of War and Mandrill tunes!!! Due out before summer on... wait for it... BLUE NOTE!!!!!!! This latest project's called something like New Blaxploitation, and Biz Markie's on the disc... Not that *I* mind, but Alfred and Francis are bound to be spinning right about now... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: enough!!!! Date: 06 Apr 1998 07:13:30 -0700 >i dont see the sence in top 20s for liveshows and disappointments since >this wont help anyone to get into great stuff he/she never heard before... > >BJOERN STOP MAKING SENSE Talking Heads at the Greek Theatre - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Ken Nordine Date: 07 Apr 1998 02:34:37 -0400 Todd Bramy wrote: > Now I have a question: radio show? "Now, Nordine" was carried by my local Pacifica station in Houston for many years... I think it might even have been an NPR program, but could be completely off my nut about that. It was a magical otherworld, that's for sure. This man has a VOICE. I know that at least some of these radio segments were later released on Nordine's own Snail label of cassette-only releases... the only one I've got is "Triple Talk," which is a pretty descriptive title... Ken 1 talks in my left ear, Ken 2 speaks to the right, and Ken 3 makes noises or chants mantras off in the distance. (Any bets on whether Ken would have had the same effect on our collective nervous system had he NOT been such a prominent voice in American TV commercials throughout the '70s and '80s?) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrick Stockton" <sheepherder@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: weird? Date: 06 Apr 1998 07:15:13 -0700 > anybody have info. on the forthcoming zorn release "weird little boy" > (avant 43?) well it is out. at least here in Portland Oregon. I found it in the Zorn section... inquired about it and was told that is was an album of noise by Mike Patton, Zorn and others. ive considered buying it about three times but the $29 price tag still puts me off. waiting to find it used somewhere. HA!!!! that's likely!!! but then again i did find Blind Idiot God for $7 (avant) and Marc RIbot's "Shrek" for 6.50 so there is some hope. if anyone has actually heard this al;bum, a review would be helpful. thanks patrick in portland - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: top 20 lists Date: 07 Apr 1998 03:05:22 -0400 frenesi wrote: > > haven't seen Michael Bolton's "Secret Passion" (or whatever it was) > > either... > > not to mention...michael jackson's "thriller"... The main difference being I'd *accept* Michael Jackson's "Thriller" (hell, if this were a Top 2000 list I might even *name* "Thriller," though "Off the Wall' would inevitably do better), while the Bolton thing is a hellish monstrosity for which Peter Gelb ought to be summarily executed. I'd poke a sharp stick through his eardrums myself if I thought he had any. I'd planned to never hear the damn thing, but one evening spent shopping for world music in the glassed-off room at the Tower in Huntington, NY blew that for me. What a fucking monstrosity (and remember I'm the poseur with the Jussi Bj=F6rling disc in the top 20 so at least I know the material Bolton's debasing...). It was playing in alternation with a Kenny G. disc, I kid you not. Damn how I've suffered, but "Vissi l'arte" ... ;-) And of course it's number one on the "legit" classical Billbord charts. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: RV: Art Ensemble of Chicago Date: 07 Apr 1998 03:18:36 -0400 Brian Olewnick wrote: > Les Stances/People In Sorrow I'm on line for this one with you... the French have all the luck sometimes, but I figure it's just because the Art Ensemble made a living there when they couldn't here... > Phase One/w/Fontella Bass I've got the latter on a French Musidisc CD but the former remains elusive... > Bap-Tizum/Fanfare. Still on the Koch schedule, yes indeed. There's hope after all... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Rath <fripp@ibm.net> Subject: Re: Bargain Bins; Other Lists (longish) Date: 07 Apr 1998 02:26:49 -0500 At 02:14 AM 4/7/98 -0400, Steve Smith wrote: >> What are your current five (5) favourite Bargain Bin stories? > >5. I once bought a copy of The Uncanny X-Men #101 (first issue with Phoenix) >in near mint condition at a used bookstore where they were embarassed to >charge me 50 cents when store policy dictated that everything was priced at >half of cover price ("it's our minimum price, we're really sorry..."). I >got about $39 for it about an hour later (and this was in like '86). That kills me. I used to buy comics for their "potential value" until I realized that you still have to find someone to buy them from you at a higher price, not always easy to do. My best bargain bin finds are: Brian Eno - Another Green World (one of my all time favorite albums) for $1.00 on vinyl in 1983 at a Wolworths of all places. 801 - Live - for $1.00 on cassette in 1984 at a head-shop in Mankato MN. The Soft Boys - 1976-1981 Compilation (2CD) - for $8.00 at Roadrunner records in Minneapolis before it was even released. Gary Numan - The Fury - $11.00 at a Musicland - Not that great of a deal unless you realize not only how hard it was to find at the time, but also that it was at a Musicland for crying out loud. Half Japanese - Fire in the Sky - 99 Cents (plus a 10% discount) in Rochester, MN. Probably my most financially frugal score yet. Other Purchase of note - Bible Launcher - lucky enough to come in on a Sunday and purchase it just before the phone call came in telling them not to even put it on the shelf. Not really a bargain bin buy, but as there are probably only three or four copies in the Twin Cities area, worth noting. Most disappointing Bargain Bin story - I had just purchased a Descendents single called Bonus Fat for the unheard of price of $12.00 (I was a bit more foolish then) which had a total of 12 minutes of music on it. The song I had been looking for at the time clocked in at 12 seconds. That's over a buck a second. Now that in itself is enough to make anyone irritated, but three days later, at a now defunct store in St. Paul, I found a descendents disc in the used bin which contained an entire album, plus the aforementioned single for a whopping $7.00. Now my question for you is: What is the most you have spent on a single disc? I'm not talking about boxed sets, just one disc, by itself. Me personally is the unofficial soundtrack to Blade Runner by Vangelis for which I paid $54.00. I look back and shake my head once in a while, but it's still a great disc, and if I was drunk I'd probably do it again. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Rath <fripp@ibm.net> Subject: Bargain Bins Date: 07 Apr 1998 02:35:27 -0500 I almost forgot: Talking Heads - The Name of This Band Is Talking Heads - $3.00 on vinyl. Unfortunately I let my friend Chris buy it instead of snagging it for myself. Since that time, I have NEVER seen another copy of it for sale anywhere at any price. Can anyone give me one good reason why this album has never been released on CD? It's probably my favorite album by them. Just thinking about it pisses me off. Again. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: El Kabong <perna8601@mail.cc.duq.edu> Subject: Re: weird? Date: 07 Apr 1998 05:02:30 -0400 (EDT) > > anybody have info. on the forthcoming zorn release "weird little boy" > > (avant 43?) > > well it is out. at least here in Portland Oregon. I found it in the Zorn > section... inquired about it and was told that is was an album of noise by > Mike Patton, Zorn and others. ive considered buying it about three times > but the $29 price tag still puts me off. nobody in america should buy this just yet. while it has been imported already, koch is going to officially release it in america on april 21, and it will then cost the standard price for an avant disc- $18-20 -a. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re: Math Rock/DC II Date: 06 Apr 1998 18:18:34 UT Replying to my own message: It looks like there's some discrepency about what "math rock" is. I see it as tight, wacky-meter ROCK music. I dunno. Slint, though I like them a LOT, is definitely NOT math rock. There's nothing mathy in their appoach at all. In my book (and my friends) they have the honor of having developed their own sound, Slint Rock or Slintastic Music. A whole subset of rock bands have spawned from the sound of Spiderland, including most everything on the Grass label. Anyway, I write again because I overlooked some other very important releases: Dazzling Killmen: Face of Collapse Tight tight tight playing from this St. Louis group (note the Blind Idiot God overtones) with shifting meter changes. Music to break stuff by. Bitch Magnet - Ben Hur: Again, a more accessible math rock, also from that Squirrel Bait scene, I think. Anyway, the earlier stuff is alright, but this final release is the math, baby. Nice rock songs enveloped in tight meter shifts, plus a few instrumentals. And, duh: Ruins Funny, I didn't like Hydro blahblahblah as much as I liked Burning Stone and Stonehenge. But the best, for the math fan, is the 10 song 7" on Bloody Butterfly. Ten songs in, like, fifteen minutes, plus a full score. Kids can sing along! Also, Early Works kicks major bootie AND features John Zorn on one of the best tracks ever (Dry Lungs). Go Get 'em. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Gschwend Gschwend D. Atelier" <gda@pingnet.li> Date: 07 Apr 1998 12:10:57 +0200 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice <gda@pingnet.li> Subject: top 20s (better late than never...) Date: 07 Apr 1998 12:10:34 +0000 hi y'all... yet someone else who's wanted to post a list since last week. but hasn't had the time yet... (also haven't had the time to flip through my collection, so it's just off the top of my head.) in alphabetical order: arnold schoenberg - transfigured night (performed by ensemble intercontemporain) bjork - debut frank zappa - apostrophe/overnite sensation jeff mills (dj) - live at the liquid room, tokyo jeff mills (dj) - the purpose maker compilation john zorn - big gundown / forbidden fruit john zorn - circle maker/isaachar (sp?) (to be able to listen to marc ribot) john zorn - naked city joy division - (last album w/the live tracks) madonna - the immaculate collection material - seven souls naked city - radio naked city - torture garden pierre boulez conducts all the works by anton webern residents - commercial album something by bela bartok terry bozzio - the drum solo music off his paiste drum solo videos the cure - pornography the fall - the frenz experiment the smiths - louder than bombs "expiry date": 35 hours from now. patRice listening 2 right now: circle maker - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Terwilliger" <seanter@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: ECM Date: 06 Apr 1998 13:15:34 -0400 Well, Aside from the fact that Krakatau has a sax player, and is some of the finest 'free-jazz' I know and Frisell could lead anyone to Zorn or any number of avant-free artists, and Metheny could lead one to Ornette... Well you may be right about Torn and Tibbetts. -Sean ---------- > From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> > To: Sean Terwilliger <seanter@ix.netcom.com> > Cc: zorn-list@xmission.com > Subject: Re: ECM > Date: Monday, April 06, 1998 12:13 PM > > > More guitar stuff. I think rough & ready was what is desired. If any of > the below can mix the intelligence, grit and ideas of folks like Archie > Shep, Frank Wright, Glen Spearmann, Charles Gayle etc. etc. I'd like to > know about it. > > Of course maybe we're comparing apples and oranges (or is it fuzzboxes and > saxophone keys), but IMHO I don't think any of the below are going to > lead anyone to the Art Esemble or other "outside" music. > > Ken Waxman > cj649@torfree.net > > If there were fewer guitars and more saxophones around, the world would > be a better place > > > > > > > On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, Sean Terwilliger wrote: > > > > >Outside of a couple of Old & New Dreams and Dewey Redman albums, the Art > > > >Ensemble has the only stuff on ECM that isn't a replacement for sleeping > > > >pills. > > > > What about... > > Steve Tibbetts > > David Torn > > Krakatau > > Bill Frisell > > Early Pat Metheny (ie: Offramp, 80/81) > > > > -Sean > > > > > > - > > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re[2]: Math Rock/ DC II Date: 06 Apr 1998 18:24:13 UT << What's so special about that? Bands like Dream Theater routinely write songs that feature every meter from 5/4, 5/8, 7/8, 9/8, 11/8, 13/8, 15/16, etc. in one and the same song. Listen to "Metropolis Pt. I" from Images and Words, for example. Yet this is not called math-rock, its called over-pretentious progressive crap. There isn't a single symphonic rock band that sticks to 4/4, so I get a bit tired every time someone says "wow, this song is in 5/4, check it out". What about Zappa using completely fucked up meters like 23/16. As a matter of fact, even Genesis uses something this far out during the solo of "Robbery, Assault, and Battery". >> Yeah, you're right. I mean, that's not all there is to it, natch. Rush does it all over, and I'm not really a big fan of theirs. Lots of composers have done this too, but Stravinsky made it ROCK. So, that's not all there is to it. I guess what I'm saying is, on top of the excellent rock music going on, they throw in nifty meter changes. Plus, hey, a lot of times, I just like the groove of a 7/8 or 5/8 (Can, KC, Soft Machine). Nothin' grooves finer. One more add: Zeni Geva. My favorite is Freedom Bondage, cuz on top of the crushing weight of the typical ZG stuff, it has synths. :) Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "f.e. somerset" <fsomerse@julian.uwo.ca> Subject: interesting small venues? Date: 06 Apr 1998 13:49:37 -0400 (EDT) Hi, new to the list, excuse the slightly irrelevant first posting: Someone who books gigs for God is My Copilot (not sure if they've featured on anyone's top 20?) wants suggestions for small innovative venues in Montreal, Quebec City, Ottawa, and Toronto. Where are good places to hear interesting gigs? Newly arrived in Canada, I've also got a vested interest in finding this out... Fiona - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J.T. de Boer" <s0821683@let.rug.nl> Subject: Re: Math Rock Date: 07 Apr 1998 10:26:56 +0100 During the last couple of years I've been listening a lot to bands in the metal genre, who frequently use odd meters and complex rhythmic structures. Let's see if I can name a few, without the ability to walk to my cd-collection (because I'm at the University right now). Meshuggah-Destroy, Erase, Improve; A Swedish metalband with a drummer who eats polyrhythms for breakfast, and a guitarplayer (Fredrik Thordendal) who is obviously influenced by Allan Holdsworth. Imagine the sound of Pantera with jazzy guitarsolo's and rather unplayable breaks and meters. Oh yeah, besides these technical matters, they're one of the most agressive bands I've ever heard. Fredrik Thordendal-Sol Niger Within; Solo-album of the main composer and guitarist of Meshuggah. The album contains one song, which is divided in (I believe) 39 parts. The total CD-time is apppr. 49m. On this album he makes an almost perfect synthesis of extreme metal and jazz/symphonic rock.A part of the rhythmsection consist of Mats and Morgan, who also play on Zappa's Universe. Two incredible musicians! One part of the composition features a saxophone-player, who obviously is influenced by John Zorn. Cynic-Focus; The band who delivered their drummer ans guitarplayer to (IMHO) the best metal album ever made; Human by Death. Cynic does also 'focus' on a combination of metal and jazz. They're not as agressive as Meshuggah, but their songs are beautiful: based in the 70's jazzrock tradition. The music is rather easy to listen to, partly because of the very strong (in a musical sense) dynamics. Very good musicians. Confessor-forgot the title, but they only have one album out; I think the most technical band I've ever heard. The drummer is the most featured bandmember, and he's really incredible. I think Meshuggah's drummer has listend a lot to him. Watchtower-forgot the title, but I mean their second album; the band who made the term "Techno-Metal" the only appoppriate way to describe their music. Sometimes it's a bit over the top, but they are an example of all the mentioned bands in this email. Some other bands: Nocturnus, Sadist (I haven't heard these yet, but they must be a more melodic version of Meshuggah), Sadus. Jeroen de Boer - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice <gda@pingnet.li> Subject: re: cujo - adventures in foam/w.shorter Date: 06 Apr 1998 17:46:48 +0100 hi patrice! the fact that you are reminded of wayne shorter on 2 or 3 tracks has reduced your *enthusiasm* for "adventures in foam"? how am i to understand that? you don't appreciate cujo sampling what sounds like wayne shorter? - please put me in on your thoughts... patRice Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > On Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:37:38 -0600 Jon Mooneyham wrote: > > > > & a current fave - > > Cujo-Adventures in Foam > > Talking about that one. I can't remember but the soprano sax reminds > me of Wayne Shorter on one of Laswell's project. Not only the sax, but > the complete piece... Happens on two/three tracks of this record, and > this has quite reduced my enthousiasm for it. Still some doubt but... > > Patrice. > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice <gda@pingnet.li> Subject: re: cujo adventures/w.shorter Date: 07 Apr 1998 12:15:38 +0000 hi patrice! the fact that you are reminded of wayne shorter on 2 or 3 tracks has reduced your *enthusiasm* for "adventures in foam"? how am i to understand that? you don't appreciate cujo sampling what sounds like wayne shorter? - please put me in on your thoughts... patRice Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > On Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:37:38 -0600 Jon Mooneyham wrote: > > > > & a current fave - > > Cujo-Adventures in Foam > > Talking about that one. I can't remember but the soprano sax reminds > me of Wayne Shorter on one of Laswell's project. Not only the sax, but > the complete piece... Happens on two/three tracks of this record, and > this has quite reduced my enthousiasm for it. Still some doubt but... > > Patrice. > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice <gda@pingnet.li> Subject: re: cujo - adventures in foam/w.shorter Date: 06 Apr 1998 17:46:48 +0100 hi patrice! the fact that you are reminded of wayne shorter on 2 or 3 tracks has reduced your *enthusiasm* for "adventures in foam"? how am i to understand that? you don't appreciate cujo sampling what sounds like wayne shorter? - please put me in on your thoughts... patRice Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > On Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:37:38 -0600 Jon Mooneyham wrote: > > > > & a current fave - > > Cujo-Adventures in Foam > > Talking about that one. I can't remember but the soprano sax reminds > me of Wayne Shorter on one of Laswell's project. Not only the sax, but > the complete piece... Happens on two/three tracks of this record, and > this has quite reduced my enthousiasm for it. Still some doubt but... > > Patrice. > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: DC 2 Date: 06 Apr 1998 23:11:38 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 6 Apr 1998, Landon Thorpe wrote: > Someone sometime ago said that DC 2 inverted the > traditional role of the guitar/guitar/bass/drums lineup. The guitars use > the regularity of their repeated lines to keep time while the drums take > the "lead" role. Actually, I think both guitars and drums do a little bit > of both. Interesting observations. Supposedly the original concept behind Storm & Stress was Sonic Youth inverted in just this way. (But, according to another version of the story from the same source, the original concept was a combination of German Romanticism and GQ fashion, so . . .) Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Gretz <KGGF@grove.iup.edu> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #310 Date: 07 Apr 1998 08:39:34 -0400 (EDT) it's good to see someone mention Madonna's immaculate collection although i myself prefer (can't remember the name goddamit) the collection of ballads. SOmething to believe in? maybe. oh well, it's realy good and has some beautiful songs on it. jeff - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "PETSITTER" <PETSITTER@prodigy.net> Subject: Re: weird? Date: 06 Apr 1998 19:10:09 -0500 -----Original Message----- Cc: zorn-list@xmission.com <zorn-list@xmission.com>; proussel@ichips.intel.com <proussel@ichips.intel.com> > >On Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:58:14 GMT0BST DR S WILKIE wrote: >> >> anybody have info. on the forthcoming zorn release "weird little boy" >> (avant 43?) > >Typo? CADENCE lists this record as having Chris Cochrane, instead of >Mike Patton. > >Yes, a typo. I wrote Cadence and asked them if they had Weird Little Boy and their answer was yes.. > >- > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Gretz <KGGF@grove.iup.edu> Subject: king crimson Date: 07 Apr 1998 08:45:04 -0400 (EDT) it depends on what you would be looking for out of king crimson which one to start with, prog-rock - Larks Tounges In Aspic or Starless and Bible Black heavy stuff - Red (really good, this one is just a trio of Robert Fripp, john wetton and Bill Bruford. Adrian Belew - Discipline (i don't know how to describe this really other than when you listen to this, you'll know where Primus got all of their ideas) but i think the best start- up disc would be THRAK since it is a culmination of all the ideas that RObert Fripp has been exploring throughout Crimson's existance jeff - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com> Subject: Re: Williams EMERGENCY! Date: 06 Apr 1998 20:22:18 -0400 Jason Tors wrote: > Is Tony Williams "singing" on this album? Yes, if you call what he does "singing." Just on a couple of the pieces. It does not keep this from being the ultimate garage fusion LP. When it first came out it blew minds, including mine. Never had heard anything like it, and it still sounds "far out" to me, except for those lame vocals. But don't forget that Dylan was in his prime, and if he could sing, then... John McLaughlin just rips things open, and Larry Young was doing his best to formulate a Coltrane language for the organ. Perhaps if these guys had stuck together they would have received the accolades that Miles got for"inventing" this type of music. Just this and Turn It Over document this trio, with Jack Bruce augmenting on the latter. Tony never approached this level again, IMHO. Mahavishnu came close, and Larry Young made one great LP, still not on CD, titled Lawrence of Newark. He then got caught up in some rather commercial fusion stuff, then died way before his time. Alan Kayser > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: King Crimson Date: 07 Apr 1998 09:19:01 -0400 >>>>> "Ash" == Ash <ash157@yahoo.com> writes: Ash> I noticed that King Crimson was in a couple of the lists Ash> posted to the mailing list so I feel its okay to ask this: Ash> What would be a good introductory album by King Crimson? Im Ash> a guitarist and am interested in good songs but also Ash> interesting playing. Also, I like Adrian Belew, what KC Ash> album with him is a good one? Thanks. Crimson fans tend to divide their work into four categories. In the first, personnel changed on each of four albums, but most of it is in fairly traditional progrock mode. Court of the Crimson King is the most famous album from this period, although Lizard made a few of the top 20 lists, and has more unusual instrumentation (woodwinds and keys) than some of the others. Keith Tippett puts in some incredible licks on their second album, Wake of Poseidon. Phase 2 starts with Larks Tongues in Aspic, the album that made the most top 20s. Absolutely incredible album, although I personally remember more dynamic range on the old vinyl than the new 'remastered' edition (maybe it was just all the tape hiss that let me know how much volume was coming). Features Jamie Muir from the Music Improvisation Company on percussion. Red (also on a number of top 20) is their final album from this period, stripped down to a trio and also very powerful. Fripp has a very famous 'one-note' guitar solo on Red. Both of these albums features long, extended pieces that are not successfully anthologized. There is also a fine new live 2-cd set, Night Watch, that contains original material that was tweaked in the studio for the middle album from this group, Starless & Bible Black, and which I would recommend as well. Can't go wrong with any of these (I'd save Starless for last though). Hiatus for six years, than three albums with Belew on guitar, Discipline, Beat, and Three of a Perfect Pair. Comparisons with Remain in Light Talking Heads are somewhat justified, and although I like these albums, I listen to them the least. I'd vote for Discipline from these three. Band cohesion was supposedly at a low by the time the last was recorded, and IMO it shows. This is usually referred to as the 1980s Crimson. The latest incarnation is the 1980s lineup plus another drummer and another bass/stick player. One studio album, Thrak and a live set of improvisations (their first of *all* improv), Thrakattak, both worthwhile. Their label, Discipline, is releasing live material from most of these bands. The first live set includes more versions of 21st Century Schizoid Man than any one person should have, and the sound is pretty raw. I haven't heard the recent 1990s live set. If you want a Belew Crimson album, I'd recommend Discipline or Thrak. Otherwise, I'd have to recommend Larks Tongues as their pinnacle. There's a web site and mailing list devoted to them at www.elephant-talk.com. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: No More Lists Date: 06 Apr 1998 19:40:15 -0700 -----Original Message----- >Okay campers, time for the list owner to clapmpdown. Thanks for waiting until the lists were over and compiled to clamp down. I've got people asking me how TO subscribe. Back to the discussions. Keith - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Williams EMERGENCY! Date: 06 Apr 1998 19:54:49 -0800 Jason Tors writes: > Is Tony Williams "singing" on this album? Why yes, that is Tony Williams "singing" on that album! gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re:Partners in subversion Date: 07 Apr 1998 14:13:17 UT I think the funniest thing about the deconstructing Beck disc is also what made the damn U2 fiasco so funny. Beck himself uses samples from all over (not always cleared, either!) to create his own music. So, most of the samples used on the Deconstructiing Beck record are probably not even HIS music. You know? U2 was the same way, when at the time they were touring the world with their Zoo Tour, broadcasting TV signals to a paying audience (fairly illegal). So. Just thought it was funny, and no-one had mentioned it. Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Ch{is Barrett" <cbarrett@neaq.org> Subject: Re: King Crimson Date: 07 Apr 1998 09:47:56 -0400 At 6:54 PM 4/6/98, Ash wrote: >I noticed that King Crimson was in a couple of the lists posted to the >mailing list so I feel its okay to ask this: What would be a good >introductory album by King Crimson? Im a guitarist and am interested >in good songs but also interesting playing. Also, I like Adrian >Belew, what KC album with him is a good one? Thanks. Just to add to all the Crimson posts..... It sounds like Discipline might be the disk you're looking for...both for Adrian's guitar work and, in many ways, the most inspired playing of the three 80's Crimson albums. One additional note, the double live CD B'Boom from the '94 tour offers IMHO a good overview of Adrian and the band live covering 80's material, intersting takes on the title tracks from the two 70s albums that made many top 20 lists (Red and Lark's Tongue in Aspic, pt. 2) and generally more inspired versions of tunes from Thrak (though I have to say that there is something missing on the actual Thrak album. The 30 minute EP Vroom actually sounds better to me than Thrak itself). -Chris - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re:king crimson Date: 07 Apr 1998 14:40:30 UT <<it depends on what you would be looking for out of king crimson which one to start with, prog-rock - Larks Tounges In Aspic or Starless and Bible Black heavy stuff - Red (really good, this one is just a trio of Robert Fripp, john wetton and Bill Bruford. Adrian Belew - Discipline (i don't know how to describe this really other than when you listen to this, you'll know where Primus got all of their ideas) but i think the best start- up disc would be THRAK since it is a culmination of all the ideas that RObert Fripp has been exploring throughout Crimson's existance >> I'd have to agree with everything, except to mention that there's an earlier set of King CRimson that's very very Romantic-Prog oriented. Lots of flutes and oboes and stuff like that. There's a bazillion variations on collections for King Crimson, as Fripp seems to be unable to make up his mind what constitutes the essential Crimson. The one I have has all the good early stuff like 21st Century Schizoid Man, Ladies of the Road, Cat Food, In the Court, and some others, plus '80s stuff, but omits all the mid period, so it fits my collection perfect. Also, while I think all the 72-74 stuff is excellent (LTIA, Starless, Red), I think THRAK blows custard. But others seem to like it, so just know that there's dissenting opinion. Also, Discipline is an excellent album, very '80's sounding, but well done. The other two '80s albums are only for purists, although my Belew-head friends seem to like them, so you might also. (Although Three of a Perfect Pair is an excellent song.) PeterR - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson <wlt4@mindspring.com> Subject: bargain bin alert Date: 07 Apr 1998 09:52:44 -0400 I'm an employee so this might be considered an improper commerical posting but what the heck. Several of the Borders stores have recently been getting some good bargain CDs buried amongst all the usual schlock. At $6 each I've bought: Tom Johnson on HatArt, Shannon Jackson's Taboo, a Roky Erickson comp, that ROIR Richard Hell disc, Anthony Davis' X, Miles/Tadd Dameron live, Sun Records country. There's been even more stuff that I didn't get to in time, like a Bill Evans import, Johnny Thunders & Heartbreakers, Glenn Branca songs, etc. Happy hunting. LT Lang Thompson http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4 New at Funhouse: Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan obituary. "No one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. Has even grown to like it." -- Zathras - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tag Yr It <TagYrIt@aol.com> Subject: Re: Expensive discs Date: 07 Apr 1998 10:00:57 EDT Hello all, Now....I like this particular thread (and I totally enjoyed the top 20 lists, sorry I never got around to putting mine together). When I read the first post about paying a lot for discs, two things immediately came to mind for me - Quiet Sun's "Mainstream" which I found in stock at my favorite CD shop....for $37.98...the other one was Lloyd Cole's "Another Story," a collection of 7 alternate and B-side tracks, which if I remember right was around $30.00, special ordered from the same shop. Kind of related to this on the thread of luckiest finds...I bought a copy of Negativland's "U2" CD the weekend it was released, because at the time (and still) I was buying anything new that Negativland put out. Its a wonderful piece of satire and comedy that more than anything reminded me of growing up with Firesign Theatre stuff. And for those who don't know the whole story (I've read and have tons of documentation on this) the "U2" CD was withdrawn in a matter of days, and now goes for something like $150.00. I'm definitely not parting with mine though! Dale. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tag Yr It <TagYrIt@aol.com> Subject: Fwd: Faith No More Date: 07 Apr 1998 10:23:55 EDT This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_891959036_boundary Content-ID: <0_891959036@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In a message dated 98-04-06 18:04:24 EDT, monsalve@interaccess.cl writes: << zorn-list@xmission.com >> I really see what you're saying here, and agree with it. I've grown similarly as well....however, I haven't written off Jane's Addiction at all. I still love the power of their stuff, and to me they were the 80's version of Led Zeppelin. Dale. --part0_891959036_boundary Content-ID: <0_891959036@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: <owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com> Received: from rly-zb04.mx.aol.com (rly-zb04.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.4]) by air-zb05.mail.aol.com (v40.19) with SMTP; Mon, 06 Apr 1998 18:04:24 -0400 Received: from lists.xmission.com (lists.xmission.com [198.60.22.7]) by rly-zb04.mx.aol.com (8.8.5/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with SMTP id SAA27069; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 18:01:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from domo by lists.xmission.com with local (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yMIJb-0003tS-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:16:23 -0600 Received: from (mail.xmission.com) [198.60.22.22] by lists.xmission.com with smtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yMIBF-0002Kg-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 14:07:45 -0600 Received: from (cheops.iusanet.cl) [206.48.128.150] by mail.xmission.com with esmtp (Exim 1.82 #1) id 0yMEyg-0004AS-00; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 10:42:35 -0600 Received: from pluton.interaccess.cl (pluton.interaccess.cl [206.48.128.129]) by cheops.iusanet.cl (8.8.8/8.7.5) with SMTP id MAA11839 for <zorn-list@xmission.com>; Mon, 6 Apr 1998 12:44:52 -0400 (CST) Received: from monsalve.interaccess.cl (unverified [206.48.134.12]) by pluton.interaccess.cl (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id <B0000052794@pluton.interaccess.cl>; Mon, 06 Apr 1998 12:41:15 -0400 Message-ID: <B0000052794@pluton.interaccess.cl> Reply-To: <monsalve@interaccess.cl> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 Sender: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I do not mean to insult anybody's musical preferences, but I have a hard time figuring out what exactly so many of you find compelling, experiment= al and exciting about Faith No More, considering that you appreciate such a diverse range of excellent music. And I know what I'm talking about, sinc= e at one point in my life I owned 3 of their albums. But I have long since abandoned any interest in pretty pop -- along with all my rock favorites = of yore: Jane's Addiction, Metallica, Carcass, King's X, Voivod and Soundgarden's Louder Than Love. Nowadays I prefer Musica Transonic (an insane Japanese band), Caspar Brotzmann Massaker and Pussy Galore. God knows even Xenakis is far louder and wilder than any of those tame pups. =09=09=09=09=09=09Francisca P.S. Thank you to all those who have made known their favorite Art Ensemb= le of Chicago records. Monsalve@interaccess.cl - --part0_891959036_boundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: reich/trane Date: 07 Apr 1998 08:02:11 -0700 On Mon, 06 Apr 1998 21:42:57 -0400 Tom Pratt wrote: > > > Just bought a new version of MUSIC FOR 18 MUSICIANS which seems to create > > unanimity (along with KIND OF BLUE and A LOVE SUPREME). I guess it is the > > version from the 10xCD box (on Nonesuch). > > What's this 10xCD box? All Reich? What's on it? It is basically a retrospective of Reich's music. All new interpretations of most of his compositions (few missing, such as PENDULUM MUSIC). It was supposed to be released in 1996 to celebrate his 60th birthday. But the box only came out in 1997. > btw, no one answered my Coltrane question... Is the material from the > 2-LP 'Concert In Japan' on the 4-CD 'Live In Japan'(Impulse)? A safe bet would be to say: yes. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: Math Rock/DC II Date: 07 Apr 1998 11:29:15 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 6 Apr 1998 peter_risser@cinfin.com wrote: > It looks like there's some discrepency about what "math rock" is. > I see it as tight, wacky-meter ROCK music. I dunno. > Slint, though I like them a LOT, is definitely NOT math rock. > There's nothing mathy in their appoach at all. well, assuming that "wacky" means non-4/4 time signature, haven't you contradicted your own definition? b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: cujo adventures/w.shorter Date: 07 Apr 1998 08:19:43 -0700 On Tue, 07 Apr 1998 12:15:38 +0000 patRice wrote: > > hi patrice! > > the fact that you are reminded of wayne shorter on 2 or 3 tracks has > reduced your *enthusiasm* for "adventures in foam"? how am i to > understand that? you don't appreciate cujo sampling what sounds like > wayne shorter? - please put me in on your thoughts... Using other's music as sampling material is fine with me, as long you (the DJ/sampler) are adding something on top of it. These tracks reminded me as being out of a Laswell project without being touched. You don't need a sampler to do that; you just play the orginal. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Partners in subversion Date: 07 Apr 1998 08:24:42 -0700 On Tue, 7 Apr 1998 14:13:17 UT peter_risser@cinfin.com wrote: > > I think the funniest thing about the deconstructing Beck disc is also what made > the damn U2 fiasco so funny. Beck himself uses samples from all over (not > always cleared, either!) to create his own music. So, most of the samples used > on the Deconstructiing Beck record are probably not even HIS music. You know? > U2 was the same way, when at the time they were touring the world with their Zoo > Tour, broadcasting TV signals to a paying audience (fairly illegal). So. A little bit like Dylan threatening to sue Apple because they called one of their product Dylan :-). Or Scanner to sue Bjork... Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Caveman music (was: TOP 20) Date: 06 Apr 1998 17:18:55 -0700 >At 01:26 PM 4/6/98 +1000, James Douglas Knox wrote: >> >>On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Patrick Stockton wrote: >> >>> Caveman Shoestore - "Flux" >>> Caveman Hughscore - self-titled (this is Caveman Shoestore with Hugh >>> Hopper) >>> Hughscore - "High Spot Paradox" >> >>This doesn't mean a damn thing to me: please tell me more... >> > The only thing I know about these releases is that they involve Wayne >Horvitz bass veteran Fred Chalenor (Zony Mash, Pigpen, etc.). > Was waiting for someone else to chime in on this thread, but here goes... Caveman Shoestore was Fred Chalenor(bass), Henry Franzoni(drums) and Elaine DiFalco(vocals, keys). Fred and Henry were in numerous Northwest experimental/improv rock bands including Face Ditch, Boodlers, and the best live, though never recorded, version of the Tone Dogs. They released 2 albums as Caveman (Master Cylinder and Flux), and a third as Caveman Hughscore, which added ex-Soft Machine bassist and composer Hugh Hopper. Caveman Split up a couple of years ago, but Fred, Elaine and Hugh Hopper continued collaborating, and recently released a CD as just "Hughscore". Fred also plays with Zony Mash, Freestyle Candela and many other Seattle bands, and is one of the best electric bassists on the planet, in my opinion. Henry currently plays in Minus, with a CD on New & Improv Music. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Tors <jtors@usinteractive.com> Subject: Williams EMERGENCY! Date: 06 Apr 1998 15:28:36 -0600 Is Tony Williams "singing" on this album? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian & Sharon Beuchaw <beuchaw@nathan.enteract.com> Subject: Re: reich/trane Date: 07 Apr 1998 11:04:39 -0500 (CDT) On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > On Mon, 06 Apr 1998 21:42:57 -0400 Tom Pratt wrote: > > > > > Just bought a new version of MUSIC FOR 18 MUSICIANS which seems to create > > > unanimity (along with KIND OF BLUE and A LOVE SUPREME). I guess it is the > > > version from the 10xCD box (on Nonesuch). > > > > What's this 10xCD box? All Reich? What's on it? > > It is basically a retrospective of Reich's music. All new interpretations of > most of his compositions (few missing, such as PENDULUM MUSIC). ... Actually, only *some* of the pieces are new interpretations - I can't remember which ones right now and the box is at home. Here's a list of what's in the box: Three Movements Electric Counterpoint Different Trains The Cave: Excerpt(s) Proverb Nagoya Marimbas City Life Come Out Piano Phase It's Gonna Rain Four Organs Drumming Music for Mallet Instruments, Voices and Electric Organ Clapping Music Six Marimbas Music for 18 Musicians Eight Lines Tehillim Desert Music New York Counterpoint Sextet The Four Sections Hope this helps.... cya brian "The most dementing of all modern sins: the inability to distinguish excellence from success." - David Hare - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: WALTER_MACKEIGAN@HP-Canada-om1.om.hp.com Subject: Om Kalthoum (Kalsoum) Date: 07 Apr 1998 12:12:27 -0400 from an earlier posting: >From: John McMahon <jmcmahon@wwdc.com> >Subject: Bargain Bins; Other Lists (longish) >Hi! >What are your current five (5) favourite Bargain Bin stories? >Okay, I'm done. Hey, what are you listening to RIGHT NOW? >Cheers, >John McMahon, >no longer lurking. >Now Playing (CDs): >Om Kalsoum: "Hajartek" (when I started writing this) First some bargain bin pickups: Weather Report: Heavy Weather A Woolco bargain bin. 99cents. circa 1979 Synergy: Audion (Larry Fast stuff) Sam the Record Man in Thunderbay, Ontario. $1.49.circa 1983 Some original Gramophone Company of India (Odeon) lps from the mid 60's to the early seventies including Zakair Hussain, Bismahli Khan, and Ravi Shankar. Got these back in 1986 at my fav Indian grocery store for $1.99 each. All new in their krinkly plastic wrap and 'psycho-delic' covers. Now a question about John' McMahon's great taste in music. I see that you like to play Om Kalsoum (Omme Kalthoum). I 'discovered' her music in a local (Ottawa, Canada) taxi. The driver played her "Etna Omrey(You are my Life)" tape. I now have that tape and a CD called "Diva" which is a compilation of her 78's from the 20's , 30's and 40's. Marvelous! What other stuff is out on CD that features this powerful Egyptian Chanteuse. What am I missing besides Harjatek? sorry for the non-Zorn content. but ya's gotta hear this woman, ya jus gotta! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lucio <lukcyfer@interlink.com.ar> Subject: Re: FAITH NO MORE Date: 07 Apr 1998 13:18:30 -0300 I think many chose FNM in their lists because it's similar to Zorn in a way. Both keep trying new things every time and have a strong sense of humour. When Zorn goes from playing "The Sicilian Clan" to "Ujaku" in Naked City, FNM do the same in Angel Dust with "Jizzlober and "Midnight Cowboy" or "Caralho Voador" and "Ugly in the Morning" in KFAD. When you ask what's so experimental about FNM just listen to some of their tracks. Are they a "heavy rock" band? (Caffeine, Surprise!You're Dead!, Malpractice) A "pop group"? (She Loves Me Not, Take this Bottle, Just a Man) Do they do "dance music"? (Last Cup of Sorrow Bonehead Mix, A Small Victory r-evolution 23 full moon mix, Ashes to Ashes Dillinja Mix) Are they into "trip hop"? (Stripsearch, Pristina Billy Gould Mix) Jazz? (Star AD) Rap? (Epic) And the musical styles go on and on... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: FAITH NO MORE Date: 07 Apr 1998 12:34:14 -0400 (EDT) On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Lucio wrote: > When you ask what's so experimental about FNM just listen to some of > their tracks. Are they a "heavy rock" band? (Caffeine, Surprise!You're > Dead!, Malpractice) A "pop group"? (She Loves Me Not, Take this Bottle, > Just a Man) Do they do "dance music"? (Last Cup of Sorrow Bonehead Mix, > A Small Victory r-evolution 23 full moon mix, Ashes to Ashes Dillinja > Mix) Are they into "trip hop"? (Stripsearch, Pristina Billy Gould Mix) > Jazz? (Star AD) Rap? (Epic) And the musical styles go on and on... that makes them eclectic, which isn't necessarily the same thing as experimental. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Crimson Date: 07 Apr 1998 17:25:14 GMT0BST I'm intrigued that Caleb Dupree, in an otherwise comprehensive Crimson rundown, omits entirely any mention of Earthbound (which must be mark 1), which is a kick butt, live and groovy, funked up piece of jazzy R'n'B improv mayhem. (Some people think it's garbage but they're wrong). Then, he omits completely the BEST album by Crimson mark II, the Kick butt, live and groovy, (etc. but different) USA. This is where Larks' Tongues comes alive! And you need to hear this band play Schizoid Man, don't you? B'Boom is all right, but it doesn't even come close to licking the decals off the above two. Groon! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Tors <jtors@usinteractive.com> Subject: Williams EMERGENCY! Date: 06 Apr 1998 15:28:36 -0600 Is Tony Williams "singing" on this album? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Bargain Bin Date: 07 Apr 1998 11:38:50 -0500 (CDT) from an earlier posting: > > >What are your current five (5) favourite Bargain Bin stories? When I was in college, in the late '70s, our local record store, Cheap Thrills in New Brinswick, NJ, was the main dumping group for Jem Records' import overstock. So I got just about the complete works up to that time of King Crimson, Eno, and oodles and oodles of related stuff for no more than $2.99 apiece. Nyaa nyaa :-) Two others: - One disk of Miles Davis's "Pangaea" in Japanese vinyl import in the mid 80s for 99 cents. - Ornette Coleman's "Skies of America" at K-Mart in Toms River, NJ, for 25 cents. - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: Re: king crimson Date: 07 Apr 1998 18:43:27 +0200 (MESZ) > but i think the best start- up disc would be THRAK since it is a culmination of > all the ideas that RObert Fripp has been exploring throughout Crimson's > existance NO!!! i cant agree on that... if you ask me what to start with: best record: larks` tongues in aspic OR red best adrian belew: vroooom ep if you only want one of their records try to get "the young person`s guide to king crimson" (as 2vinyl or 2cd <japan only and very expensive>) BJOERN - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Re: Bargain Bin Date: 07 Apr 1998 11:46:15 -0500 I found a Tim Berne Caos Totale and a Michael Formanek disc, both on CD, for $4.99 at some store in Cambridge, MA. They also had two copies of a Henry Cow LP of which I got one for no more than a couple of bucks. I don't know why anyone cares about my scores though... Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rusty Crump <dmcrump@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu> Subject: Re: interesting small venues? Date: 07 Apr 1998 11:51:52 -0500 >Hi, new to the list, excuse the slightly irrelevant first posting: > >Someone who books gigs for God is My Copilot (not sure if they've featured >on anyone's top 20?) wants suggestions for small innovative venues in >Montreal, Quebec City, Ottawa, and Toronto. Where are good places to hear >interesting gigs? Newly arrived in Canada, I've also got a vested >interest in finding this out... > >Fiona > > >- Barristers in Memphis has been known to present some good shows over the past few years, now that the Antenna Club is no more. Masada played there, Zony Mash played there... Sheep on Drugs... the Jesus Lizard, recently (very disappointing show, by the way. The opening band, The Diarrhea of Anne Frank, was more interesting.) A guy named Chris Walker has been putting on some great shows in Memphisto, and for a while Barristers was his venue. Chris is also doing shows at the Young Avenue Deli now, if I'm not mistaken. (He booked the recent Polvo and Eugene Chadbourne shows there, I think.) Anyway, in Memphis it seems the venue is secondary to the promoter: good promoter (like Chris), good show, no matter where it winds up being. The Antenna Club is now a lesbian bar, and the Oblivians have played there live since it stopped being the Antenna, and now that I think about it, that might be a fun venue for GodCo to play. Here in Oxford, Proud Larry's used to do great shows (Medeski, Martin & Wood; Dick Dale; Ween), and still could, if only there were someone who knew anything about music booking for them. The music-minded of the two owners moved back to Atlanta last year to look after his mother after his father was killed in a plane crash. So while there's still great food there, the live music leaves a lot to be desired. Rusty Crump Oxford, Mississippi - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: y9d62@TTACS.TTU.EDU Subject: Re: king crimson Date: 07 Apr 1998 11:50:48 -0600 (CST) I started with the Compact King Crimson, which had Red, 21st Century Schizoid Man, and a bunch from the 80s band. As it turned out, I liked the 70s Red-period best, but I agree that a retrospective is probably the best idea for this band, whose music is so varied. On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, BJOERN wrote: > > but i think the best start- up disc would be THRAK since it is a culmination of > > all the ideas that RObert Fripp has been exploring throughout Crimson's > > existance > NO!!! i cant agree on that... > > if you ask me what to start with: > > best record: larks` tongues in aspic OR red > best adrian belew: vroooom ep > > if you only want one of their records try to get "the young person`s > guide to king crimson" (as 2vinyl or 2cd <japan only and very expensive>) > > BJOERN > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Crimson Date: 07 Apr 1998 11:53:50 -0500 (CDT) On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, DR S WILKIE wrote: > I'm intrigued that Caleb Dupree, in an otherwise comprehensive > Crimson rundown, omits entirely any mention of Earthbound > (which must be mark 1), which is a kick butt, live and > groovy, funked up piece of jazzy R'n'B improv mayhem. (Some people > think it's garbage but they're wrong). Then, he omits completely the > BEST album by Crimson mark II, the Kick butt, live and groovy, (etc. > but different) USA. This is where Larks' Tongues comes alive! I'm intrigued that you chose these too. "Earthbound" is a muddy mess, and "USA" is far from Mark 2 at their best. Rather than USA, check out the recent double-disc "The Night Watch", which kicks it to hellandback. (I don't think I'd call the Earthbound band either mark 1 or mark 2; it was the document of a short-lived aberration that (other than Fripp) had little connection with its predecessor or follower. The players sound like they're straining to get out from under the prog material, though they do succeed in wrestling some of it to the ground.) - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Re: king crimson (and similarities engine) Date: 07 Apr 1998 11:56:04 -0500 Has anyone mentioned "Lizard?" A few years ago when there was this web site called the "Similarities Engine" (which was amazing by the way) I put in my five albums and King Crimson Lizard was on there. I went out an bought it blindly and I really enjoy it. For those of you who don't know what the similarities engine is I'll explain briefly. It was a web site where you would put in your top five favorite albums and a few days later it would email you a list of rated recommendations. The recs were rated with a number that was meant to say how much you would like it. I was really amazed; some of the recs were albums I already had and liked and others were ones that I didn't have and I went out and got them and I liked them. Anyhow, that didn't last long and it became a thing where you would pick one album and it would give you a recommendation list but that was pretty lame. I looked at the guys webpage the other day and he said he sold the technology to a company called Firefly (don't quote me on this one) and they apparently haven't done anything useful with it yet. I really hope they do though, the similarites engine was absolutely mind-blowing. Dan At 11:43 AM -0500 4/7/98, BJOERN wrote: >> but i think the best start- up disc would be THRAK since it is a >>culmination of >> all the ideas that RObert Fripp has been exploring throughout Crimson's >> existance >NO!!! i cant agree on that... > >if you ask me what to start with: > >best record: larks` tongues in aspic OR red >best adrian belew: vroooom ep > >if you only want one of their records try to get "the young person`s >guide to king crimson" (as 2vinyl or 2cd <japan only and very expensive>) > >BJOERN > >- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: king crimson (and similarities engine) Date: 07 Apr 1998 12:29:22 -0500 (CDT) On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Dan Hewins wrote: > a recommendation list but that was pretty lame. I looked at the guys > webpage the other day and he said he sold the technology to a company > called Firefly (don't quote me on this one) and they apparently haven't > done anything useful with it yet. I really hope they do though, the > similarites engine was absolutely mind-blowing. Check out http://www.tunes.com/ who seem to be using a similar technology. - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel) Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #307 Date: 07 Apr 1998 19:57:28 +0200 >Outside of a couple of Old & New Dreams and Dewey Redman albums, the Art >Ensemble has the only stuff on ECM that isn't a replacement for sleeping >pills. There's a new CD on ECM by Nils Petter Molvaer, "Khmer", which is absolutely great. It's the most modern CD ECM ever has produced, with lots of samples, drum beats/loops, treated guitars and the lot. I like it a whole lot, and there's been a remix EP with reconstructions by The Herbalizer, Rocker's Hifi and somebody else I can't remember now. And then there was Julian Priester's "Love, Love" from 1974 (when will they rerelease it?) which I think is as beautiful as it is exciting, and it has lots of energy. Kind regards, - Chris. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris Barr{tt" <cbarrett@neaq.org> Subject: Re: Crimson Date: 07 Apr 1998 14:03:55 -0400 >B'Boom is all right, but it doesn't even come close to licking the >decals off the above two. Nope, wasn't suggesting that it was their best live one, but simply that it was a good overview of Belew's work with the band, with a hint of the 73-74 lineup that everyone (including myself) seems to like so much..... -Chris - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel) Subject: Re: No More Lists Date: 07 Apr 1998 20:01:14 +0200 > p.s. other than the recent list making frenzy, > the zorn-list has been the pillar of an excellent > mailing list. Well, I enjoyed these lists, but apart from that I have to agree: the zorn-list is the most open-minded, interesting, fascinating, fun-to-read mailing list I know. Kind regards, - Chris. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lucio <lukcyfer@interlink.com.ar> Subject: Re:FAITH NO MORE Date: 07 Apr 1998 15:16:17 -0300 > When you ask what's so experimental about FNM just listen to some of > their tracks. Are they a "heavy rock" band? (Caffeine, Surprise!You're > Dead!, Malpractice) A "pop group"? (She Loves Me Not, Take this Bottle, > Just a Man) Do they do "dance music"? (Last Cup of Sorrow Bonehead Mix, > A Small Victory r-evolution 23 full moon mix, Ashes to Ashes Dillinja > Mix) Are they into "trip hop"? (Stripsearch, Pristina Billy Gould Mix) > Jazz? (Star AD) Rap? (Epic) And the musical styles go on and on... that makes them eclectic, which isn't necessarily the same thing as experimental. Well, the term "experimental" is quite vague. What is to be "experimental"? Which band do you consider to be "experimental"? I think this is a word which we usually use but which doesn't have a valid meaning nowdays. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Doug McKay" <mckay003@maroon.tc.umn.edu> Subject: King Crimson Date: 07 Apr 1998 13:35:26 Here's my odd, fully opinionated take on Crimson. I've got all their studio albums through the 80's plus most of what Fripp did aside from Crimson up to then. I respect Fripp and, being a drummer myself, I love Bruford's style, including his work with YES. Bruford on drums and Wetton on bass and vocals made the best compliments to the pre-80s Fripp. This Crimson is incredible. The other stuff is good but this is great. In the 80's Fripp is in a new phase. It's rhymically interesting and Bruford gets to show his talent. Tony Levin on bass fits right in with Fripp's new style. Belew as noise maker and weird singer more or less works well with this but IN MY BIASED OPINION Belew is a bubble-gum animal freak and should have never been brought back for the new Crimson. THRAK was my biggest musical disappointment since Alice Cooper did MUSCLE OF LOVE. Bruford is astonishingly dull on THRAK and I like Bruford a lot, so I don't like saying this. Belew is just repeating himself and doing it far worse. And he's still singing about animals. Fripp sounds like someone trying to recapture past greatness and having no clue how he did it. THRAK is like a bar band trying to compose old Crimson style songs and failing. Addtionally, after my discovery of Ayler and Dolphy, the attempts throughout the early Crimson to incorporate jazz and do the free jazz thing sound sophmoric. Before when I heard this on Crimson I was impressed at the chaos making music, now it just seems second rate. King Crimson as a trio: Bruford, Wetton, Fripp. That was the best of a band that's always been pretty damn good. Until now. Doug McKay In Minnesota - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re:reich/trane Date: 07 Apr 1998 11:17:37 -0800 Patrice writes: > It is basically a retrospective of Reich's music. All new interpretations of > most of his compositions (few missing, such as PENDULUM MUSIC). > Strictly speaking, it is not all new, in case someone is looking for second recordings of familiar works. There's a lot in the set that has been released already by Nonesuch, e.g. "The Cave," "Three Movements." gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@UVic.CA> Subject: Norman Yamata Date: 07 Apr 1998 11:25:35 -0700 (PDT) Anyone know how I can contact Norman Yamata? (or have any info on his music?) Cappy D'Angelo Student at Law - Intellectual Property Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion Victoria, B.C., CANADA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rusty Crump <dmcrump@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu> Subject: RE: interesting small venues? Date: 07 Apr 1998 13:32:30 -0500 >Uh, isn't Memphis and Mississippi a bit far from Canada? > >mike rizzi > >---------- >From: Rusty Crump >Sent: Tuesday, April 07, 1998 9:51 AM >To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com >Subject: Re: interesting small venues? > >>Hi, new to the list, excuse the slightly irrelevant first posting: >> >>Someone who books gigs for God is My Copilot (not sure if they've featured >>on anyone's top 20?) wants suggestions for small innovative venues in >>Montreal, Quebec City, Ottawa, and Toronto. Where are good places to hear >>interesting gigs? Newly arrived in Canada, I've also got a vested >>interest in finding this out... >> >>Fiona >> >> >>- > Yes, and let this be a lesson to everyone who might be tempted to do as I do, and respond to something on the zornlist without completely reading what it is one is responding to. Dying of mortification, Rusty Crump Oxford, Mississippi >Barristers in Memphis has been known to present some good shows over the >past few years, now that the Antenna Club is no more. Masada played there, >Zony Mash played there... Sheep on Drugs... the Jesus Lizard, recently >(very disappointing show, by the way. The opening band, The Diarrhea of >Anne Frank, was more interesting.) A guy named Chris Walker has been >putting on some great shows in Memphisto, and for a while Barristers was >his venue. Chris is also doing shows at the Young Avenue Deli now, if I'm >not mistaken. (He booked the recent Polvo and Eugene Chadbourne shows >there, I think.) Anyway, in Memphis it seems the venue is secondary to the >promoter: good promoter (like Chris), good show, no matter where it winds >up being. > >The Antenna Club is now a lesbian bar, and the Oblivians have played there >live since it stopped being the Antenna, and now that I think about it, >that might be a fun venue for GodCo to play. > >Here in Oxford, Proud Larry's used to do great shows (Medeski, Martin & >Wood; Dick Dale; Ween), and still could, if only there were someone who >knew anything about music booking for them. The music-minded of the two >owners moved back to Atlanta last year to look after his mother after his >father was killed in a plane crash. So while there's still great food >there, the live music leaves a lot to be desired. > >Rusty Crump >Oxford, Mississippi > > > >- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re:FAITH NO MORE Date: 07 Apr 1998 14:37:45 -0400 (EDT) On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Lucio wrote: >> that makes them eclectic, which isn't necessarily the same thing as >> experimental. > > Well, the term "experimental" is quite vague. What is to be > "experimental"? Which band do you consider to be "experimental"? I think > this is a word which we usually use but which doesn't have a valid meaning > nowdays. "founded on or derived from experiment," says webster's. i grant you that in dealing with the arts, that definition can be vague. however, what you described was eclecticism - genre hopping. that doesn't necessitate that fnm is experimental. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@UVic.CA> Subject: Re:experimentation/was FAITH NO MORE Date: 07 Apr 1998 12:06:01 -0700 (PDT) IMHO, "experimentation" suggests actions whose reactions are unpredictable (eg "let's throw the piano out the window of the 10th floor and hear what it sounds like when it lands"), and would encompass both "indeterminacy" (eg "let's draw squiggles on a page and tell performers to play it) and "chance" (eg "let's flip a coin to determine if we should use an f or an f#"). I would agree that "pragmatic" is a better term for FNM. Cappy D'Angelo Student at Law - Intellectual Property Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion Victoria, B.C., CANADA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re:experimentation Date: 07 Apr 1998 21:00:54 UT Yeah, but good experimentation goes beyond that, I think, and hits even good free-improv. Like, sure, throwing a piano out the window would sound super-cool, but how many times can you do that before it gets old? Good experimentation is like a brainstorm. Here's an idea, let's do what freewheeling craziness we can to expand it to its greatest extent and see what cool things we can come up with. In my opinion, expermentation/experimental music is alright, but I'm really only interested in what comes OUT of that experimentation, not the process in itself, although that could be good too. My roommate used to say it pissed him off when people called it "experimental" cuz the experimenting was already done. Now we're playing music. So. Throwing a piano out the window, or getting five people in the room to jam on the same piano could be considered experimental. And that's fine once. But if you manage to incorporate a piano out the window in a major piece to great effect, or form an ensemble that plays all the parts (legs, top, etc.) of a grand piano and makes a fucking great noise with it, maybe that's post-experimental music, too. Which is more what I'm interested in. Same with throwing a coin. That's the experiment. Let's see what this sounds like. Then, when you've figured out a really cool way to do coin-throwing pieces, that's experimental too. Or post-experimental. See, I'd say Zorn's early game pieces are experimental in the pure sense. And the later ones (the more popular ones) like Cobra are the results of what he learned from the experiments. So, is it still experimental? Sure. FNM doesn't really do this. I'd say, yeah, they're eclectic. Unless you say, Hey, what happens when a popular band records wacked jazz tunes, rap songs, sings in Portugese, etc.? That could be cool! Let's see what we can do with that concept. I suppose then it relies on your level of "experimentalism". But in looking back on my ramble, I wonder about Mike Bolton's new disc. Let's see what happens when we take a mediocre pop singer and get him to sing opera music. Sounds experimental to me... :) PeterR ____________________Reply Separator____________________ Author: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com IMHO, "experimentation" suggests actions whose reactions are unpredictable (eg "let's throw the piano out the window of the 10th floor and hear what it sounds like when it lands"), and would encompass both "indeterminacy" (eg "let's draw squiggles on a page and tell performers to play it) and "chance" (eg "let's flip a coin to determine if we should use an f or an f#"). I would agree that "pragmatic" is a better term for FNM. Cappy D'Angelo Student at Law - Intellectual Property Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion Victoria, B.C., CANADA - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Andrew Hill Date: 07 Apr 1998 16:18:55 -0400 (EDT) I was surprised to see that with all of the mentions Dolphy's Out to Lunch got that nobody mentioned Andrew Hill's 'Point of Deparure", rec. a month after (or before) w/ 3 of the same band members. It's equally great in my opinion. Sorry to remind any one of the lists, who might be trying to forget. A bit off topic too... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Is this annoying? Date: 07 Apr 1998 16:25:35 -0400 (EDT) It doesn't bother me when others do this, but if it's annoying please tell me. I am unloading the following Cds, we can negotiate off the list. Ornette Coleman- Sound Museum/Hidden Man Frank Zappa- Grand Wazoo, Joe's Garage, YCDTOSA Vol. 5, The Best Band You've Never Heard in Your Life (Barking Pumpkin edition) Masada- VAV (6) Third Rail- South Delta Space Age Bern Nix Trio- Alarms and Excursions (w/ Fred Hopkins, Newman Baker on New World/Counter Currents) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel) Subject: Re: anti-bargain deals Date: 07 Apr 1998 22:07:35 +0200 > Now my question for you is: What is the most you have spent on a single > disc? I'm not talking about boxed sets, just one disc, by itself. I paid 65 DM, which is about 37 $, for "Herbie Hancock: Dis Is Da Drum" when it came out. It was a Japanese import, and one month later it was available for half the price. But it's been worth it. - Chris. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: math rock Date: 07 Apr 1998 16:49:14 -0400 (EDT) WHAT'S MATH ROCK??????? thanks, jascha On Sun, 5 Apr 1998, Jeff Gretz wrote: > you forgot the most IMPORTANT math-rock band of all time, BREADWINNER (which > was an off-shoor of Honor Role) > > jeff > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: Steve Reich Date: 07 Apr 1998 17:01:18 -0400 (EDT) > I was really surprised how similar this new interpretation is (as compared > to the ECM one). I am even wondering if, duration aside, I could detect a > difference. This will be a good argument for those who judge Reich's music > too mechanical :-). > So, were all the compositions in the Reich Box rercorded especially for it? What an expensive undertaking... Any thoughts on whether the original performances are better or not? -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Re: math rock Date: 07 Apr 1998 15:58:57 -0500 Math rock is kinda like this: 8 measures of 13/8 4 measures of 3/4 7 measures of 7/8 1 measure of 8/8 6 measures of 4/4 rinse and repeat. A peev: why call it 13/8 if it's more easily "feel-able" as one 6/8 and one 7/8? This could go on forever so I'll just stop now. Dan At 3:49 PM -0500 4/7/98, ia zha nah er vesen wrote: >WHAT'S MATH ROCK??????? > >thanks, > jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: math rock Date: 07 Apr 1998 16:17:52 -0500 (CDT) On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Dan Hewins wrote: > 8 measures of 13/8 (snip) > A peev: why call it 13/8 if it's more easily "feel-able" as one 6/8 and one > 7/8? Because it's easier to say "8 measures of 13/8" than 1 measure of 6/8 1 measure of 7/8 1 measure of 6/8 1 measure of 7/8 1 measure of 6/8 1 measure of 7/8 1 measure of 6/8 1 measure of 7/8 1 measure of 6/8 1 measure of 7/8 1 measure of 6/8 1 measure of 7/8 1 measure of 6/8 1 measure of 7/8 1 measure of 6/8 1 measure of 7/8 or even "eight instances of 1 measure of 6/8 followed by 1 measure of 7/8". - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phil Plencner <plencner@lnd.com> Subject: King Crimson Date: 07 Apr 1998 17:00:02 -0500 Finally someone mentioned Lizard! I find that to be a very enjoyable KC album, but if your looking for fancy guitar work or loud rock, this is not what your looking for. Very jazzy, lots of fantastic horn solos. Guest singing on the title track by Jon Anderson of Yes. Also from the same period of crimson, but not nearly as good, is Islands. I would say stay away from this one. The sound is pretty muddy, and most of the songwriting is pretty blah. Although the tune "Sailor's Tale" is pretty cool, the rest (to me) falls flat. Someone else I believe mentioned The Young Persons Guide To King Crimson, which is an excellent collection. I found it in a local used record shop for a couple of bucks, so I don't think its too hard to find on vinyl. Came with an informative booklet too! Phil - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phil Plencner <plencner@lnd.com> Subject: Vog Date: 07 Apr 1998 17:05:57 -0500 Just read this at the addicted to noise web site (www.addict.com). Sounds interesting...anybody else out there heard any insights about this project? Tuatara sax player Skerik has formed a new instrumental, jazz-flavored combo called Vog with keyboardist Wayne Horvitz, drummer Bobby Previte and pianist Dave Palmer. They plan to issue an album on Pearl Jam guitarist Stone Gossard's Loosegroove label this summer. [Mon., Apr 6, 11:07 PM PDT] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Winter & Winter Date: 07 Apr 1998 18:54:43 -0400 (EDT) Not widely available. I'm been looking for a copy of the Uri Caine disc for months. Everyone's heard of it. It's even been reviewed (favorably) but it's nowhere to be seen. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Steve Smith wrote: > Dan Hewins wrote: > > > Does anyone know who carries Winter & Winter discs? (online or mail order) > > I have been trying to find the Big Satan disc and I am interested to see > > what else they have... > > Allegro, starting in May, here in the states. But I was under the impression > that the label's been widely available in Canada for some time now... > > Steve > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Allen Gittelson" <Allen.Gittelson@eng.efi.com> Subject: Varese and "experimenting" Date: 07 Apr 1998 17:13:26 -0700 I am reminded of the following quote from one of my favorite composers: I do not write experimental music. My experimenting is done before I make the music. - Edgar Varese - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Hollo <raven@cia.com.au> Subject: Re: DIGEST! WHAT'S GOING ON? Date: 08 Apr 1998 12:27:19 +1000 Erm, anybody else finding the digest is working very weirdly indeed these days? Multiple messages *all over the place* and digests even coming in the wrong order... List-owner, help! -- Peter Hollo raven@cia.com.au http://www.cia.com.au/raven/ FourPlay - Eclectic Electric String Quartet http://www.cia.com.au/raven/fourplay.html "Of course, dance music can be a music where you lie on your back and your brain cells dance" -Michael Karoli of Can, quoted in Wire mag. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Crimson Date: 08 Apr 1998 00:25:09 -0400 DR S WILKIE wrote: > I'm intrigued that Caleb Dupree, in an otherwise comprehensive > Crimson rundown, omits entirely any mention of Earthbound > (which must be mark 1), which is a kick butt, live and > groovy, funked up piece of jazzy R'n'B improv mayhem. (Some people > think it's garbage but they're wrong). They are wrong, yes, but "Earthbound" is still not an especially good representation of what this band could do. Mel Collins was a godlike reeds player in those days, Fripp was frequently at his most aggressive, and Boz and Ian were a frequently capable rhythm section. The problem was that the latter two didn't want to play in Fripp's chosen genre and struggled from underneath to subvert the system, and Mel tended to go with them. Furthermore, "Earthbound" was poorly recorded, and I'm also convinced that Fripp made his programming decisions for the LP in order to demonstrate just how *bad* the band had become on the second U.S. tour. It's true that the version of "21st Century Schizoid Man" is a killer, but so many other things are just wrong, and including two meandering scat jams on one LP seems like a deliberate diminution of the band's strengths. And it ends with just about the most listless and bloated version of "Groon" of any I've heard. I'm hopeful that enough time has passed that Fripp will now see his way clear to compiling some of the best material for the "official bootleg" of this band, "Ladies of the Road," due by the end of the year. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: UN-Bargain Bins Date: 08 Apr 1998 00:47:04 -0400 Craig Rath wrote: > Now my question for you is: What is the most you have spent on a single > disc? I'm not talking about boxed sets, just one disc, by itself. I paid about $39.99 apiece for the Japanese Sony pressing of "Cynical Hysterie Hour" and the Terrapin (which is actually also Japanese Sony) pressing of the first SXL album "Live in Japan" (not "Into the Outlands"). Both on visits to New York before I moved here, both at the late, lamented DMG predecessor Lunch for Your Ears, and in both cases Manny told me, "Buy this now, you'll never see it again" and was right (the Tzadik version of "Cynical" aside). Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gabriel Lichtmann <licht@bancaria.com.ar> Subject: Re: Experimental and FNM Date: 16 Feb 1998 01:26:25 -0300 I have to say I got a bit disappointed when I read some of the answers to the suggestion that FNM is an experimental band. I couldn't believe that someone thinks that "throwing a piano out of a window" is being experimental. =BFWas he trying to define chance?=BFis this all those years o= f investigation by people like Cage mean to him/her? =BFWhere do Harry Partch, AMM, Stockhausen, and Pierre Henry, fit according to this definition?. I have the strange feeling that too many people here like "experimental music" just because it's strange, because they want to impress their friends. Seems to me that the market needs to recycle itself every five years; ten years ago the only thing that was important was how proficient technically a musician was and which music school did he go to (Pat Metheny and Steve Vai are both a product of that era); five years later Grunge "ruled" and all that mattered was songwriting, feeling over technique, and being "normal" with a bit of existential angst; and nowadays everybody is tring to be "experimental", and "weird", the term electronica is being used to define almost anything with a drum machine, suddenly Arto Lindsay is well known and listened, an "The Wire" and Tortoise are the coolest thing around. Be careful, experimentation alone is just empty aestheticism, and just as bad as the things you are criticizing. For example, =BFwhat does it mean that FNM is pragmatic or eclectic?, correct me if I'm wrong, but "The White Album", Zorn, Miles Davis, and King Crimson could also fall into those categories. I'm not interested in odd time signatures or virtuosism, if I wanted to be shocked by someone's skills or weirdness I would go to a circus; no wonder so many of you have confessed a fondness for Yes. In my case, I prefer punk-rock. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: ECM Date: 08 Apr 1998 01:17:03 -0400 Alan E Kayser wrote: > I must agree that the current version of ECM is pretty lame. However, > way back in ancient history, the 70s, they put out quite a few excellent > LPs. I agree, and I would use as proof some examples even further out than those Alan mentioned: 1005 The Music Improvisation Company (Derek Bailey, Evan Parker, Hugh Davies, Jamie Muir, Christine Jeffries) 1013 David Holland and Derek Bailey - Improvisations for Cello and Guitar I note that to this day, even though they haven't reissued either of these on CD, they still proudly proclaim Bailey as part of their lineage of great guitarists in their print catalogs. and of course there's the mighty Paris Concert by Circle... I also think that lately things are looking up for ECM. Sure, they're still releasing a fair amount of twaddle, but if that enables them to record the Evan Parker electroacoustic thing, Marilyn Crispell, and the Roscoe Mitchell Note Factory (as yet unreleased but featuring a killing frontline of Mitchell, Hugh Ragin, and George Lewis, and two rhythm sections, Matt Shipp and Craig Taborn on pianos, William Parker and Jaribu Shahid on basses, and Tani Tabbal and someone I can't remember on drums - someone exceptional, I'm just spacing right this minute) then I'll try to turn a blind eye and hope for more. As will we all, I suspect. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Top 20. Date: 08 Apr 1998 01:28:43 -0400 Peter Hollo wrote: > [*NOTE: Does anyone else thing a Great Jewish Music Music: Kurt Weill > compilation would be superb? Yessir, you betcha. Sign me up. Weill is incredible. I used to end my college radio program ('86-'88) every single week with the beautiful version of "Speak Low" on the Wilner-directed tribute "Lost in the Stars." And that record also contained some of the first Zorn, E# and Henry Threadgill I ever heard. Monstrously influential, and certainly paved my path to "The Big Gundown." Plus Stan Ridgeway's version of the "Cannon Song" rocked hard then and still does now. As for Lou Reed's version of "September Song," give me Jimmy Durante any day... (But I'm also still hoping for the Stanley Eisen / Chaim Witz collection...) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: reich/trane Date: 08 Apr 1998 00:53:12 -0400 Tom Pratt wrote: > btw, no one answered my Coltrane question... Is the material from the > 2-LP 'Concert In Japan' on the 4-CD 'Live In Japan'(Impulse)? Yes, it is, plus a whole hell of a lot more. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Julien Quint <Julien.Quint@xrce.xerox.com> Subject: Steve Reich boxset Date: 08 Apr 1998 09:17:23 +0200 ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> said: > So, were all the compositions in the Reich Box rercorded especially > for it? What an expensive undertaking... No, the box set contains all the original recordings published by Elektra (e.g. "Different Trains", etc.) and new recordings of works published elsewhere (e.g. "Drumming" or "Music for 18 musicians"), so only a part of the recordings is new. I was under the impression that the box had about anything Reich had done up to this point, but maybe some pieces are missing. Can't tell you which one though; I don't have the box yet (I'll buy it after I get the Miles Davis one.) * Julien - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "m. rizzi" <rizzi@netcom.com> Subject: Re: DIGEST! WHAT'S GOING ON? Date: 08 Apr 1998 00:32:52 -0700 (PDT) Peter Hollo, demi-God and Icon sez: > >Erm, anybody else finding the digest is working very weirdly indeed >these days? Multiple messages *all over the place* and digests even >coming in the wrong order... List-owner, help! I'm all over it. Should be fine now. The culprit was a funky mailer in Switzerland (I thought they were perfectionists...what's the deal). In the future, please email me directly about list probles rather than cluttering everyones mailbox. cheers, mike rizzi zorn-list-owner -- rizzi@netcom.com -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com "Another nerd with a soulpatch" -------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 ------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Experimental and FNM Date: 08 Apr 1998 17:35:59 +1000 Basically that person who mentioned "chance" and "indeterminacy" was completely off the mark. That has nothing to do with the general idea of experimental music. Experimental means exactly what it sounds like - experimentation, as in doing something different, fiddling around with what is usually done. So that is why that other person said quite correctly that FNM wasn't experimental in playing different styles. I would call their stuff on Angel Dust experimental - they play rock music like it has never been played before on that album. But their concept on King For A Day (playing varied styles from country to metal) isn't since all the music has basically been done before. Chance and indeterminacy (in the sense that you meant it) only come into those 20th century works of such composers as Cage and Varese, and of course Zorn. And as that _other_ person said, these days it isn't still called experimental since the ideas have already been formulated, everyone's going to stand around and follow these weird little graphs and make appropriate noises at appropriate times. But of course, generally these terms come into all music from all musical periods... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Howie Voigt <buurin@athenet.net> Subject: Re: FAITH NO MORE Date: 08 Apr 1998 02:52:24 -0500 [FNM is eclectic, not experimental.] > "founded on or derived from experiment," says webster's. i grant > you that in dealing with the arts, that definition can be vague. > however, what you described was eclecticism - genre hopping. that > doesn't necessitate that fnm is experimental. I don't necessarily think FNM is simply genre hopping. A lot of times they do tend to genre hop, and a lot of times they tend to fuse two genres (or more) into the same song. If one day in 1989 I was sitting in my room and I decided to write a song that would fuse metal, funk, and rap I'd think it was experimental. But then again, the Accused and maybe Suicidal Tendencies already did it...ah pooey. The first Zorn-related thing I heard was Naked City "Torture Garden". I thought that was great because it was something new. But really all they do is genre hop 20 times within the same 1 minute song. Anyway, what I'm getting at is I don't like to use the term experimental nor progressive (too many demo "prog rock" bands sound like King Crimson so I don't see it being progressive). I like or dislike a recording based on originality and overall enjoyment. If a band creates a sound that is very original and refreshing I like it without evaluation. If a band creates music that triggers a feeling inside me that I want brought forth then I like it without evaluation. The first time I hear a recording I usually know if I like it or not. If I like it I see no point in setting criteria such as "is this purely experimental" "what are their views on music like" "are they pop?" "are they less original that John Zorn?" I've tried countless times to become one of these elitists but really I'm no different than a pop fan, I like what I like. =) Just to make things clear I'm not offended by anything said on the list nor meaning to offend anyone in particular. Just decided to speak my views on the subject. Maybe one thing offended me, saying you are "disappointed" with other people's music tastes is asinine. (^_^) One more thing is I think a lot of people like FNM because of their relation to Mr. Bungle (which is probably considered more experimental to people). Likewise a lot of people like Mr. Bungle for the same reason. Me? Yes I like FNM. And Portishead, Peter Gabriel, the Cure, Slayer, Black Sabbath, Napalm Death, the Accused, Emperor, John Zorn, Univers Zero, Arcturus, Bill Laswell, At The Gates, Diamanda Galas, Buckethead, Celtic Frost etc. Those are some favourites. Take care! Howie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Beiderbecke <beider19@idt.net> Subject: Re: Mezz Date: 08 Apr 1998 05:31:44 -0500 Weighing in about something that happened way before my time, Mr. Waxman says; >Take anything Mezz sez with a large grain of salt (or maybe the type of >spliff Mezrow would have preferred). Let's just say he and the truth >were little more than distant cousins. In reply to Mr Knox who said in part; >> He talks about some pretty crazy binges with Bix as well... To which I add, Too true, but the blurred memories of Mr. Mezzrow, despite their only glancing intersection with fact, makes for some really fun reading. Jazz, and the players, the way they were perceived, 20 years after the facts. The chapter of definitions and sample conversations is worth the price of admission. But a snoozing Bix being awakened for his 16 bar solo with the Whitman Orchestra is true. Ah, the fabulation of history..... ****************************** Just Browsing? http://idt.net/~beider19 ****************************** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Oskardmay <davido@makesys.com> Subject: KC Date: 08 Apr 1998 08:33:25 -0400 OK, I'm finally delurking for a quick^H^H^H^H^H Crimson recommendation.. When King Crimson 'Discipline' came out in '80, it was the biggest kick in the head of my young and impressionable youth. Don't miss this one whatever you do. The 70's KC is really a different band, but also required listening. It's really difficult to pick one to start with. The Fripp compilations give a good overview of the studio work. Which leads to the other point many seem to make--Crimson is/was a live band. I second the motion on USA, but I don't think it has been reissued on CD (yet). As for comparing Crimson to other bands, and I guess this is a more general comment, I've never really had much interest in drawing comparisons. Either it takes you there, or not. If it works for you, go for it. So now we can make some comparisons.. The 90's KC hasn't yet rocked me as much as the earlier bands, but it's still the live animal. Look for more new stuff from KC subprojekts at your favorite convenience store... In short, buy! buy! buy! see youse, david - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tag Yr It <TagYrIt@aol.com> Subject: Re: Varese Date: 08 Apr 1998 09:04:01 EDT Thank you Allen for the following quote: I am reminded of the following quote from one of my favorite composers: I do not write experimental music. My experimenting is done before I make the music. - Edgar Varese I was reminded of that myself and couldn't think of who'd said it - I was thinking Ives. And if memory serves, the line after the above was "Now it is the listener who must experiment." Dale. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Tim Berne & David Sanborn Date: 08 Apr 1998 09:28:58 -0400 This morning on my way to work I listened to Berne's album Diminutive Mysteries, his tribute to Julius Hemphill, which includes David Sanborn as a sideman. This seems like an uncharacteristic pairing, and I was wondering if anyone had information on how this came to pass, whether they played live or toured together, etc. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: Re: KC Date: 08 Apr 1998 15:30:14 +0200 (MESZ) > It's really difficult to pick one to start with. The Fripp compilations > give a good overview of the studio work. Which leads to the other point > many seem to make--Crimson is/was a live band. I second the motion on > USA, but I don't think it has been reissued on CD (yet). yes it has....japan only : ) BJOERN http://www.cityinfonetz.de/uni/homepage/bjoern.eichstaedt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Eric Saidel <saidel@usl.edu> Subject: Re: Tim Berne & David Sanborn Date: 08 Apr 1998 08:30:54 -0700 > This morning on my way to work I listened to Berne's album Diminutive > Mysteries, his tribute to Julius Hemphill, which includes David > Sanborn as a sideman. This seems like an uncharacteristic pairing, > and I was wondering if anyone had information on how this came to > pass, whether they played live or toured together, etc. > > --- > Caleb T. Deupree Sanborn was once upon a time a member of St. Louis' Black Artists Group (something akin to Chicago's AACM) - a group that also featured Oliver Lake, Julius Hemphill, and I think Lester Bowie and Marty Ehrlich. (Sanborn may not have been a member; he may have just been a younger guy hanging around with the group.) He also used to hang out with Roscoe Mitchell (he may have even been a student). Then - so Roscoe tells me - he decided it would be nice to make some money, so he gave up all that avant garde noise and started playing much more R&B. He does some nice playing on Diminutive Mysteries, almost to make one regret the path he did take. I have no idea of Berne and Sanborn toured or played live together. - eric - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: Tim Berne & David Sanborn Date: 08 Apr 1998 09:47:37 -0500 Sanborn, all indications to the contrary, came out of the St. Louis area and was involved with members of BAG (Black Artists Group) at the time (late 60's, early 70's), an organization similar to the AACM which included Julius Hemphill, Oliver Lake, John Hicks (I think) and others. Arista released a couple of pretty good albums from BAG-associated folk (sans Sanborn) including Joseph Bowie's Human Arts Ensemble and Lake's 'Ntu'. Sanborn, to give credit where credit is due, also hosted the short-lived but pretty amazing late Sunday night music show on NBC about eight years back which had as guests Zorn (DS participated in a performance of 'Road Runner'!), WSQ, Diamanda Galas and many other non-TV types (I recall taping was problematic as the show's actual airing time was dependant on the length of that afternoon's NFL game!). Brian Olewnick ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: <cdeupree@interagp.com > at SMTP-for-MSSM This morning on my way to work I listened to Berne's album Diminutive Mysteries, his tribute to Julius Hemphill, which includes David Sanborn as a sideman. This seems like an uncharacteristic pairing, and I was wondering if anyone had information on how this came to pass, whether they played live or toured together, etc. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1 <IOUaLive1@aol.com> Subject: Re: Tim Berne & David Sanborn Date: 08 Apr 1998 10:29:07 EDT They have played live together, in "Spy Vs. Spy". At at least one show, there was Zorn, Berne, and Sanborn reading Zorn's charts and blowing like mad. Jody - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Given <dlgiven@julian.uwo.ca> Subject: Re: winter and winter Date: 08 Apr 1998 10:45:11 +0100 Various people wrote: >>> Does anyone know who carries Winter & Winter discs? (online or mail order) >>> I have been trying to find the Big Satan disc and I am interested to see >>> what else they have... >> >> Allegro, starting in May, here in the states. But I was under the impression >> >> that the label's been widely available in Canada for some time now... >Not widely available. I'm been looking for a copy of the Uri Caine disc >for months. Everyone's heard of it. It's even been reviewed (favorably) >but it's nowhere to be seen. >Ken Waxman >cj649@torfree.net The Winter and Winter discs should be available through any HMV in Canada. I know tha one here (London Ontario) has had them. Also, I think Verge carries at least some of them. I'm sure I saw at least the Reijeger disc listed--which is amazing. Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Tim Berne & David Sanborn Date: 08 Apr 1998 10:21:42 -0400 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > Sanborn, to give credit where credit is due, also hosted the > short-lived but pretty amazing late Sunday night music show on NBC > about eight years back which had as guests Zorn (DS participated in a > performance of 'Road Runner'!), WSQ, Diamanda Galas and many other > non-TV types (I recall taping was problematic as the show's actual > airing time was dependant on the length of that afternoon's NFL > game!). BTW: If your cable system gets the BET ON JAZZ station, you can see Night Music reruns several times a day. Woo-hoo! (I think their Web page is http://www.betonjazz.com/ but I could be wrong. A web search should find it.) -- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re[3]: math rock Date: 08 Apr 1998 15:44:30 UT << Because it's easier to say "8 measures of 13/8" than >> Actually, being non-musically trained, me and my fellows just drop the /8 or /4 altogether and talk about threes, fives, 13s, etc. What's the difference between 4/4 and 8/8. Or 3/4 and 6/8. I can't tell. I've had people try to explain it to me, but to no avail. And when someone says, 31, yeah, you know it's probably 8/8/8/7, cuz if it were 6/10/7/8, they'd say that instead. I think Soft Machine has a song at the end of one album called something like 21/4 Box Top and, yeah, it's definitely warped around to be a 21, and not three 7's or anything like that. I've also seen a jazz tune called 8/8, and I'll be damned if it did sound more like 8 than a funky four. So, it can be done. Also, math rock can be done in 4/4, by turning things around in three measures instead of the usual rock four, or by adding silences in interesting places. So. PeterR - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re[2]:Varese and "experimenting" Date: 08 Apr 1998 15:44:56 UT Yeah! That's the quote. I guess he's not my "friend." My my friend was quoting him. And by the way folks, not to be a music snob, but his name really is Edgard Varese, with a d. PeterR ____________________Reply Separator____________________ Author: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com I am reminded of the following quote from one of my favorite composers: I do not write experimental music. My experimenting is done before I make the music. - Edgar Varese - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice <gda@pingnet.li> Subject: Re: Don Byron Date: 07 Apr 1998 17:17:24 +0100 William York wrote: > > Speaking of Don Byron, since he was mentioned on the last list, does > anyone know when he will have something new out? It's strange, but he > only has two albums of original stuff, plus 2 cover albums and 1 live > album, in 7-8 years. Maybe he's too involved in political stuff. Any > help would be appreciated. Thanks. ****************** > hi william! what kind of political stuff is don byron involved in? can you maybe tell me sthg about this? thanks! patRice - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: Re[3]: math rock Date: 08 Apr 1998 11:16:26 -0400 (EDT) On Wed, 8 Apr 1998 peter_risser@cinfin.com wrote: > Also, math rock can be done in 4/4, by turning things around in three measures > instead of the usual rock four, or by adding silences in interesting places. that's true too. definitely a math rock trait, being easier for punks to play than 21/4. also, i've seen varese's name spelled both edgar and edgard on album covers. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Experimental and FNM Date: 08 Apr 1998 08:12:36 -0700 On Wed, 8 Apr 1998 17:35:59 +1000 "Julian" wrote: > > Basically that person who mentioned "chance" and "indeterminacy" was > completely off the mark. That has nothing to do with the general idea of > experimental music. Experimental means exactly what it sounds like - > experimentation, as in doing something different, fiddling around with what > is usually done. So that is why that other person said quite correctly that > FNM wasn't experimental in playing different styles. I would call their > stuff on Angel Dust experimental - they play rock music like it has never > been played before on that album. But their concept on King For A Day > (playing varied styles from country to metal) isn't since all the music has > basically been done before. > > Chance and indeterminacy (in the sense that you meant it) only come into > those 20th century works of such composers as Cage and Varese, and of ^^^^^^ Chance and indeterminacy in Varese? Hard to believe when you know how much Varese sweated on each note of each of his scores... Patrice. > course Zorn. And as that _other_ person said, these days it isn't still > called experimental since the ideas have already been formulated, > everyone's going to stand around and follow these weird little graphs and > make appropriate noises at appropriate times. But of course, generally > these terms come into all music from all musical periods... > > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Steve Reich boxset Date: 08 Apr 1998 08:10:36 -0700 On Wed, 08 Apr 1998 09:17:23 +0200 Julien Quint wrote: > > > ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> said: > > So, were all the compositions in the Reich Box rercorded especially > > for it? What an expensive undertaking... > > No, the box set contains all the original recordings published by Elektra > (e.g. "Different Trains", etc.) and new recordings of works published > elsewhere (e.g. "Drumming" or "Music for 18 musicians"), so only a part of the > recordings is new. I was under the impression that the box had about anything > Reich had done up to this point, but maybe some pieces are missing. Can't tell > you which one though; I don't have the box yet (I'll buy it after I get the > Miles Davis one.) Besides PENDULUM MUSIC, that Reich has never recorded, it seems that PHASE PATTERNS was also missing from the list recently posted. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Gschwend Gschwend D. Atelier" <gda@pingnet.li> Date: 08 Apr 1998 17:01:10 +0200 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice <gda@pingnet.li> Subject: Re: Partners in subversion Date: 08 Apr 1998 09:57:55 +0100 hi patrice! what's the story behind scanner suing bjork?!? that sounds interesting! patRice Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > > A little bit like Dylan threatening to sue Apple because they called one of their > product Dylan :-). > > Or Scanner to sue Bjork... > > Patrice. > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: varese/experimentalism/cage Date: 08 Apr 1998 08:42:04 PDT > >I am reminded of the following quote from one of my favorite composers: > >I do not write experimental music. My experimenting is done before I >make the music. > - Edgar Varese I like this, although I'd be curious to hear what else Varese said, just to put the above epigram in context, and to flesh it out. I find that people like sound bites, and as such we are suckers for all politicians, even--or especially--the politicians of aesthetics. This can be elevated to an art. Since Jim Morrison (my slection is arbitrary...AT LEAST SINCE Jim Morrison), the mainstream has demanded of pop-cultural icons that they challenge and contribute and pontificate in 1.5 sentence increments. "interviews" are great opportunities for this. Manifestos are produced by the baker's dozen. Ideology is is filtered down to MTV edits: very palatable, very convenient, and not too taxing on the absolutely modern attention span. Oscar Wilde, among few others, was able to build a virtual aesthetic worldview (albeit rife with irony), with bite size maxims; he was REALLY GOOD at it. I personally think Neitzsche was not as funny or as helpful or as good as Wilde, but I respect N's quotes anyway. Of course, I do not direct these comments toward Allen or anyone on this list: I LIKE (at least sometimes) the quotes offered here, although those "signature quotes" at the bottom of EVERY POST by some tend to irritate me a little after I've seen them for the eighteenth time (c'mon...there are a LOT of quotes in the world...). They sometimes make me want to check the source out. I just thought I'd offer double-nickels on the tendency of one's affinity for bite-size wisdom to encourage non-thinking and facile answers to complicated questions. I have suffered from this myself, and continue to fight the urge to be satisfied on morsels, philosophical jellybeans instead of a nice mouthfull of wine to be tasted and savored and tried again and thought about: is is bitter? is it sweet? how formidable is it? does it challenge my taste? does the way I perceive it change with time, or with the way I approach it? By the way, I suppose I should say something about experimental music. For those of you who haven't read John Cage's SILENCE, it's a beautiful work, even if you dislike Cage's music. It is, I think a tribute and a user's manual to the experimental sensibility, and perhaps the creative impulse at large. There is a manifesto-of-sorts, very short (for absolutely modern attention spans), re: experimental music. I think many of you would be inspired by it and enjoy it. Thanks for reading this, Scott ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fran Bacon" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Tim Berne & David Sanborn Date: 08 Apr 1998 08:15:55 PDT CALEB wrote: >This morning on my way to work I listened to Berne's album Diminutive >Mysteries, his tribute to Julius Hemphill, which includes David >Sanborn as a sideman. This seems like an uncharacteristic pairing, >and I was wondering if anyone had information on how this came to >pass, whether they played live or toured together, etc. Caleb (and all): This may be common knowledge, but I believe Tim Berne appeared on the David Sanborn-hosted late-night music variety show called NIGHT MUSIC. Seems like I heard that Sonic Youth was a guest on that same show, and they all played together. Of course, since I have only heard this, and since my memory's artless, I'll leave this to those who KNOW for sure. I know for a fact that Sanborn has played entire sets w/Spy vs. Spy, on a date or so when Berne was there, as well as JZ, as well as Pheeroan Aklaff, et al. I just got SATURATION POINT, and for those wondering, it tends, I think to dwell more in the "radical noise/sound" territory than the other Bloodcount releases (a couple of Tim's solos make me say this, please forgive the unintentional pretentious jargon-mongering); a bit more groovy than the JMT stuff, using half material from other Screwgun stuff and half material that sounds like the earlier Screwgun stuff. And, most importantly for the non-fans---it's the cheapest by far, and it's easily the best recorded of the three Bloodcount Screwgun albums. Tim Berne is great, and I'd love to know what Paraphrase sounded like on their recent NYC 5-night stand (or has that happened yet?). ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re[2]: Steve Reich boxset Date: 08 Apr 1998 16:35:56 UT I also didn't see Telhillim. And only It's Gonna Rain or Come Out, but I can't remember which one.... Or Melodica (another tape phase piece using a quick four note sax line), but that's okay. :) PeterR === Besides PENDULUM MUSIC, that Reich has never recorded, it seems that PHASE PATTERNS was also missing from the list recently posted. Patrice. - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FUNKADELlC <FUNKADELlC@aol.com> Subject: dumb Date: 08 Apr 1998 11:54:02 EDT In a message dated 98-04-08 09:38:06 EDT, you write: << I'm not interested in odd time signatures or virtuosism, if I wanted to be shocked by someone's skills or weirdness I would go to a circus; no wonder so many of you have confessed a fondness for Yes. In my case, I prefer punk-rock. >> "duh duh duh blah blah blah i dunno what im talking about duh duh" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert A. Pleshar" <rpleshar@midway.uchicago.edu> Subject: Re: Tim Berne & David Sanborn Date: 08 Apr 1998 11:22:09 -0500 (CDT) I haven't seen this mentioned yet, but an obvious connection (and one that I think was mentioned by Berne around the time the record came out) is that both Berne and Sanborn studied with Hemphill. They may even have studied at the same time, I'm not sure. Ralph - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: ECM Date: 08 Apr 1998 12:31:25 -0400 (EDT) I haven't heard the Crispell album, but the uniformly good reviews have said she sounds completely unlike her other CDs (Do I see the ghost of Keith Jarrett?). The upcoming Mitchell release also makes me salivate (an infant version of that band recorded on Black Saint a few years ago), just as long as the ghost of Jan Garbarek doesn't hover over the session. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net P.S. Steve - would the drummer you're thinkin of be Vincent Davis? On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, Steve Smith wrote: > Alan E Kayser wrote: > > > I must agree that the current version of ECM is pretty lame. However, > > way back in ancient history, the 70s, they put out quite a few excellent > > LPs. > > I agree, and I would use as proof some examples even further out than those > Alan mentioned: > > 1005 The Music Improvisation Company (Derek Bailey, Evan Parker, Hugh > Davies, Jamie Muir, Christine Jeffries) > 1013 David Holland and Derek Bailey - Improvisations for Cello and Guitar > > I note that to this day, even though they haven't reissued either of these > on CD, they still proudly proclaim Bailey as part of their lineage of great > guitarists in their print catalogs. > > and of course there's the mighty Paris Concert by Circle... > > I also think that lately things are looking up for ECM. Sure, they're still > releasing a fair amount of twaddle, but if that enables them to record the > Evan Parker electroacoustic thing, Marilyn Crispell, and the Roscoe Mitchell > Note Factory (as yet unreleased but featuring a killing frontline of > Mitchell, Hugh Ragin, and George Lewis, and two rhythm sections, Matt Shipp > and Craig Taborn on pianos, William Parker and Jaribu Shahid on basses, and > Tani Tabbal and someone I can't remember on drums - someone exceptional, I'm > just spacing right this minute) then I'll try to turn a blind eye and hope > for more. As will we all, I suspect. > > Steve Smith > ssmith36@sprynet.com > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gabriel Lichtmann <licht@bancaria.com.ar> Subject: Re: Faith No More Date: 16 Feb 1998 02:22:55 -0300 If you are talking about me, I've never said I was dissapointed of someones musical tastes, I just said I was disappointed of some peoples narrow views regarding what should be called experimental. I respect all musical genres and I would never judge someone by what they listen to. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Re[3]: math rock Date: 08 Apr 1998 11:46:16 -0500 (CDT) On Wed, 8 Apr 1998 peter_risser@cinfin.com wrote: > What's the difference between 4/4 and 8/8. Or 3/4 and 6/8. I can't tell. I've > had people try to explain it to me, but to no avail. 6/8 often has a duple feel on top of the triplets... or in non-doublespeak, the "one" is stronger in the first triplet than the second. > And when someone says, 31, yeah, you know it's probably 8/8/8/7, cuz if it were > 6/10/7/8, they'd say that instead. A lot of Balkan rhythms put things together as strings of twos and threes, so you get patterns like Bada-yada-yadada-bada-yadada-bada-yada (which is a sixteen that definitely isn't an eight or a four). A relevant joke I heard a long time ago: someone has a gig playing the percussion with a group in an ethnic restaurant of some sort. On his own, he starts getting really into jazz. One night, when he gets a chance to solo, he plays a letter-perfect arrangement of a straightahead Art Blakey recording. Afterwards, the proprietor is furious and threatens to fire him: "You will play the music the way our customer are used to hearing it: the groove is in 37 with the downbeats on 1 and 23!" - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Tim Berne & David Sanborn Date: 08 Apr 1998 11:55:23 -0500 (CDT) On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, Joseph Zitt wrote: > BTW: If your cable system gets the BET ON JAZZ station, you can see > Night Music reruns several times a day. Woo-hoo! (I think their Web > page is http://www.betonjazz.com/ but I could be wrong. A web search > should find it.) Mea culpa: it's http://www.betnetworks.com/jazz/home.html - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Gretz <KGGF@grove.iup.edu> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #315 Date: 08 Apr 1998 13:21:55 -0400 (EDT) the difference between 3/4 and 6/8 is QUITE different being that the 6 eighth notes of 3/4 are played with an agogic stress on 1,3,and5 whereas 6/8 the stress is on 1 and 4. two totally different feels. jeff - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Re: Don Byron Date: 08 Apr 1998 13:40:05 -0400 (EDT) On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, patRice wrote: > hi william! > > what kind of political stuff is don byron involved in? can you maybe > tell me sthg about this? thanks! > > patRice Sorry, not to say that he is running for political office, but that most of his work has some sort of political slant to it- from Tuskeegee Experiments to the song titles on "6 Musicians" (haven't heard it though- any thoughts) to Bug Music. I enjoy this aspect of his work in that it gives focus to what he is doing. But I wonder if he isn't too preoccupied with the political stuff at the expense of putting out music. I was just trying to think of a reason why he has put out so few albums, especially for a jazz-type musician. Also, when I saw him last summer on the bug music tour, he played a few songs with just the rhythm section or with the trumpet player added, and they were all older songs. I think he tends to be a good writer, but seemingly not a prolific one. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gabriel Lichtmann <licht@bancaria.com.ar> Subject: Re: dumb Date: 16 Feb 1998 03:17:34 -0300 I'm not going to waste my precious time explaining something which I think should be obvious to anyone in this list. My advice to you is to start reading something else besides "______(fill with your instrument of choice) Player" and go through my message carefully and you'll understand what I was trying to get at. Besides, if you want to start a serious discussion you should try harder than "duh duh duh blah blah blah i dunno what im talking about duh duh", I can help you with that if you want. Perhaps reading Greil Marcus "Lipstick Traces" will help you, it's a bit longer than the last issue of "_______ Player", but I'm sure you'll manage. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Allen Gittelson" <Allen.Gittelson@eng.efi.com> Subject: Varese (spelling and "sound" bites) Date: 08 Apr 1998 11:08:01 -0700 You will see his first name spelled both as Edgar and as Edgard. I personally regard the Edgard spelling as correct, yet I failed to use that spelling in my previous email that contained the quote. Also, note that often you will see an accent mark over his last name, and it's probably not practical for me to figure out how to enter the right character in my email so that you may all see it. You may also see variations on the spelling of his last name. He is not a native of the USA so, any spelling of his name in USA English is an approximation of another language. He was born in France. It is true that Varese did not include Indeterminacy in his music. Rather he used the term "Organized Sound" often to describe the music he created. Also, the full quote is actually: "I do not write experimental music. I do my experimenting before I write my music. After that, it is the listener who must experiment" -- Edgard Varese If you are interested further in written material about him, I suggest you visit http://www.mala.bc.ca/~mcneil/varese.htm or your local library or book store. There are quite a few interesting reads to be had. If you read all that is written, you of course are less likely to take the "quotes" out of context. I do think that there is a quite valid point made about taking people "out of context". It is quite a common practice today, as is the practice of not verifying sources. Just check Negativland's Helter Stupid album and notes if you need further proof from just one such example. I worked in "professional" radio for a while and I can tell you that many of the news people are not always the most informed or aware humans on this earth. Happy listening, Allen - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Time sigs Date: 08 Apr 1998 13:08:48 -0500 I'm in agreement with whomever it was (sorry, I forgot) that said he dispenses with the number underneath in the time signatures. There are minor differences in the feels of 4/4 and 8/8 in many cases and to me (and my band) it's more worth while to say a tune is in 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, etc. In many cases I feel that 3 is different than 6... In most cases, the differences are the length of the melodic phrase or the bassline or whatever might signify a "1" in the music. That's why I originally said "6 and 7" makes more sense to me than "13" does. Unless, of course, the phrase is 13 beats long and not more like 6 then 7. Now that I think about it, this is sort of a strange thread we've got here... On the subject of the list, I've noticed on some Masada discs that a tune in 6/[4-8] was track 6 on the disc. Also, one of my favorites on Masada 5 is the on that's in 5/[4-8]. I know there are a few in 7 but I don't know if any of them are on Masada 7 or are track 7 on any disc. Oh, that cute tune on 7 called "Bacharach" is in 5... Pretty damn good use of 5, I have to say. This makes me think of those Dead songs, "Estimated Prophet" (in 7) and "Playing in the Band" (in 10). I think the Dead was good at having songs in odd time signatures but not making it obvious that they were in odd time signatures. That is how I like to hear odd times used. I never liked songs in 7 that sound like there's a beat chopped off the end. That's no good. Well then... Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CuneiWay <CuneiWay@aol.com> Subject: Re: math rock/Dr. Nerve Date: 08 Apr 1998 14:27:25 EDT peter_risser@cinfin.com wrote: >Also, math rock can be done in 4/4, by turning things around in three measures >instead of the usual rock four, or by adding silences in interesting places. Yes it can. I stayed out of this discussion, but will now jump in & tie it to one of the original posts re: math rock/Dr. Nerve. If you look at the scores for much of the material on Nerve's "Skin" CD, you will see that an amazing amount of it, considering how convuluted it sounds, is in 4/4 or 3/4, but with very unusual internal timings & rests. So, please stop comparing Doctor Nerve to Dream Theatre if you haven't heard them!! :-) Steve Feigenbaum - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sfunk@pop.adn.com (Stephen Funk) Subject: "Godard" by Zorn Date: 08 Apr 1998 10:28:54 -1000 Hello... new to the list and a question: I had an LP several years ago, from maybe the mid-80s, that was a tribute to J-L Godard. Featured artists such as Arto Lindsay. The longest track, and the reason I bought it, was a piece by John Zorn called, I think, just "Godard"? It was about 15 minutes or so, with lots of musicians, major studio editing, shifting genres often in the manner of "Spillane". Does anyone know if this piece has appeared on any CD? I've been scanning the "Film Works" series, but don't see it there. It's an amazing work, it got me into Zorn in the first place. Anyone else remember it? - Steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: "Godard" by Zorn Date: 08 Apr 1998 14:35:06 -0400 >>>>> "Stephen" == Stephen Funk <sfunk@pop.adn.com> writes: Stephen> Hello... new to the list and a question: I had an LP Stephen> several years ago, from maybe the mid-80s, that was a Stephen> tribute to J-L Godard. Featured artists such as Arto Stephen> Lindsay. The longest track, and the reason I bought it, Stephen> was a piece by John Zorn called, I think, just "Godard"? Stephen> Does anyone know if this piece has appeared on any CD? Stephen> I've been scanning the "Film Works" series, but don't see Stephen> it there. The tribute itself is released on CD, including the Zorn piece. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: "Godard" by Zorn Date: 08 Apr 1998 11:38:30 -0700 On Wed, 8 Apr 1998 10:28:54 -1000 Stephen Funk wrote: > > Hello... new to the list and a question: > > I had an LP several years ago, from maybe the mid-80s, that was a tribute > to J-L Godard. Featured artists such as Arto Lindsay. The longest track, > and the reason I bought it, was a piece by John Zorn called, I think, just > "Godard"? > > It was about 15 minutes or so, with lots of musicians, major studio > editing, shifting genres often in the manner of "Spillane". > > Does anyone know if this piece has appeared on any CD? I've been scanning > the "Film Works" series, but don't see it there. Nato put out the LP, and later the CD version. Zorn has plans to get GODARD out on his Tzadik. According to Larry Ochs: "the old Godard piece is being released early next year with a new suite of piece also dedicated to Godard that has yet to be recorded (but will be soon.)" [September 4, 1996] Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Carol Emanuel Date: 08 Apr 1998 14:46:03 -0400 (EDT) I was looking on the Koch Jazz page and I saw an album by Carol Emanuel, part time harp player with Zorn (song 5 on Filmworks I for example), with music written by Zorn, Evan Lurie, Guy Klucevsek, A. Coleman, Horvitz, Ehrlich, Previte, Frisell, and Butch Morris. Anyone heard this? I realize its been out for a while, but it sounds interesting at least on paper. Thanks in advance. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian & Sharon Beuchaw <beuchaw@nathan.enteract.com> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Steve Reich boxset Date: 08 Apr 1998 13:53:24 -0500 (CDT) On Wed, 8 Apr 1998 peter_risser@cinfin.com and Patrice said: > I also didn't see Telhillim. > And only It's Gonna Rain or Come Out, but I can't remember which one.... > Or Melodica (another tape phase piece using a quick four note sax line), but > that's okay. :) > > PeterR > > === > Besides PENDULUM MUSIC, that Reich has never recorded, it seems that PHASE > PATTERNS was also missing from the list recently posted. > > Patrice. Here's the list again - Tehillim is on it, as is *both* Come Out and It's Gonna Rain. But Phase Patterns *and* Violin Phase are *not* on it. Three Movements Electric Counterpoint Different Trains The Cave: Excerpt(s) Proverb Nagoya Marimbas City Life **Come Out Piano Phase **It's Gonna Rain Four Organs Drumming Music for Mallet Instruments, Voices and Electric Organ Clapping Music Six Marimbas Music for 18 Musicians Eight Lines **Tehillim Desert Music New York Counterpoint Sextet The Four Sections I don't think Nonesuch ever posited that the box was a *complete* collection of his works from 1966-96, but it *is* a huge majority. cya brian "The most dementing of all modern sins: the inability to distinguish excellence from success." - David Hare - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Steve Reich boxset Date: 08 Apr 1998 13:57:05 -0500 (CDT) On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, Brian & Sharon Beuchaw wrote: > Here's the list again - Tehillim is on it, as is *both* Come Out and It's > Gonna Rain. But Phase Patterns *and* Violin Phase are *not* on it. Do you know if the new Nonesuch single disc of "Music for 18 Musicians" is the same recording as in the box? I would guess it is... - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: ECM Date: 08 Apr 1998 15:01:41 -0400 (EDT) I was very amused to find that my recording of Perotin is on the ECM 'new' series... :) -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: Carol Emanuel Date: 08 Apr 1998 15:03:18 -0500 Maybe a bit more interesting on paper than in actuality, but not a bad record. If I'm remembering correctly (it's home, I'm at work) there are one or two kind of annoying pieces with a new age-rock feel (in fact, I think one of them's the Previte piece--whose work I normally love) but those are balanced by a number of very nice works, those by Klucevsek and Lurie especially. God-awful cover, by the way. Brian Olewnick ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> at SMTP-for-MSSM I was looking on the Koch Jazz page and I saw an album by Carol Emanuel, part time harp player with Zorn (song 5 on Filmworks I for example), with music written by Zorn, Evan Lurie, Guy Klucevsek, A. Coleman, Horvitz, Ehrlich, Previte, Frisell, and Butch Morris. Anyone heard this? I realize its been out for a while, but it sounds interesting at least on paper. Thanks in advance. - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: Tim Berne & David Sanborn Date: 08 Apr 1998 14:35:45 -0400 Caleb Deupree wrote: > > This morning on my way to work I listened to Berne's album Diminutive > Mysteries, his tribute to Julius Hemphill, which includes David > Sanborn as a sideman. This seems like an uncharacteristic pairing, > and I was wondering if anyone had information on how this came to > pass, whether they played live or toured together, etc. David Sanborn and Marty Ehrlich are/were Hemphill's two musical proteges. Berne also studied with Hemphill and because 'Diminutive Mysteries' is "mostly Hemphill" the hook-up with Sanborn was perfectly normal (sort of). -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: Steve Reich boxset Date: 08 Apr 1998 15:08:52 -0400 (EDT) > Besides PENDULUM MUSIC, that Reich has never recorded, it seems that PHASE > PATTERNS was also missing from the list recently posted. Is Phase Patterns the one off of '4 organs'? Also, could someone who's actually purchased the set tell me how much it is? i'm curious... -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Steve Reich boxset Date: 08 Apr 1998 15:17:43 -0400 (EDT) > Here's the list again - Tehillim is on it, as is *both* Come Out and It's > Gonna Rain. But Phase Patterns *and* Violin Phase are *not* on it. > I don't think Nonesuch ever posited that the box was a *complete* > collection of his works from 1966-96, but it *is* a huge majority. Sad...i really really really like Violin Phase. Are these two things the only works from this period which aren't in the set, or are there others? -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: new Tzadik Date: 08 Apr 1998 14:54:46 -0400 Be expecting new discs by Merzbow, Anthony Coleman's Selfhaters and another one by an electronic composer with a very non-western name (can't remember). I was flipping through a soon-to-be-released catalog at the store today and found these... -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: ECM Date: 08 Apr 1998 13:50:22 -0700 On Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:01:41 -0400 (EDT) ia zha nah er vesen wrote: > > > I was very amused to find that my recording of Perotin is on the ECM 'new' > series... :) BTW, I seem to remember that Reich mentions Perotin as an influence for MUSIC BY 18 MUSICIANS. That might explain why :-). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar Subject: Carol Emanuel Date: 08 Apr 1998 17:02:24 -0300 God-awful cover, that's right, but an amazing work of Carol. The first (by Evan Lurie) and the third (by Guy Klucevsek) songs worth the price of the disc. Try this one! -Hugo - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: QUESOMALO <QUESOMALO@aol.com> Subject: Re: Bargain Bins; Other Lists (longish) Date: 08 Apr 1998 17:06:13 EDT In a message dated 98-04-07 03:55:08 EDT, fripp@ibm.net writes: << >> What are your current five (5) favourite Bargain Bin stories? >> I still get excited thinking about the time that I was cleaning out the teacher's lounge during a service day at my school (it's a quaker school so we have quite a few of these) and I found a copy of Massacre's Killing Time in a dusty stack of LPs. It was between a Tal Farlow record and a Charlie Daniel's band record. The lounge didn't even have a record player so I assumed that it no longer needed to live there. I had been looking for that album for quite a while and it is still one of my favorites. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: time sigs Date: 08 Apr 1998 14:17:16 -0800 Dan Hewins writes: > I'm in agreement with whomever it was (sorry, I forgot) that said he > dispenses with the number underneath in the time signatures. There are > minor differences in the feels of 4/4 and 8/8 in many cases and to me (and > my band) it's more worth while to say a tune is in 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, > etc. In many cases I feel that 3 is different than 6... In most cases, the > differences are the length of the melodic phrase or the bassline or > whatever might signify a "1" in the music. That's why I originally said "6 > and 7" makes more sense to me than "13" does. Unless, of course, the > phrase is 13 beats long and not more like 6 then 7. Now that I think about > it, this is sort of a strange thread we've got here... This is all well and good as long as you maintain a single unit of beat, e.g. 4/4, 7/4, 6/4, 11/4. But once you start mixing units, which is beyond common in 20th century music, then you had better keep track of the changes; e.g. 4/4 -> 3/8. The initial unit is quarter, but you have to keep a solid feel of what the eighth-note subdivision is. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Toby Dodds <toby@seanet.com> Subject: Math Rock & Steve Albini Date: 07 Apr 1998 16:22:18 -0700 (PDT) The genre owes a lot to Steve Albini, who recorded and captured much of the definitive math rock sound before it had the now-loosely-applied classification. My short list has got to begin with Breadwinner and Table. Both bands nailed down the formula for extremely tight execution of intricate, weighty music, and both worked briefly with Albini. His recordings of Don Caballero, Dazzling Killmen and Johnboy are also legendary. Today he pays the bills by occasionally recording less *admirable* bands, but his influence is still as important as ever. My personal favorite Albini-recorded record: Faucet "self-titled" disc on Southern (1995). You can read my review of it here: http://www.pillowfight.com Table info: http://www.droolboy.com/bands/table/index.html Mark Wieman / Pillowfight - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@UVic.CA> Subject: experimentation Date: 08 Apr 1998 16:38:09 -0700 (PDT) I had hoped that that one would initiate debate - you people are great! I think the Varese quote on experimentation is right on point. When Varese composed music, he knew exactly how he wanted it to sound - he was a great orchestrator, and had very much in mind the precise "colors" he wanted the music to express. There was no experimentation once he began to compose the work. If FNM compose a set of tunes, then go into the studio and record those tunes in the manner which results in the album they set out to record, where is the experimentation? Inevitably there is initial experimentation in the conception of the ideas which will become the compositions, but is there experimentation in the execution of those compositions? By definition, experimentation suggests that the initiator of the process cannot predict the end result - there is uncertainty or tentativeness. Composers such as Varese (or Stravinsky, or Zorn with respect to his "composed" music) are masters of their trade in part because they can accurately predict the result when they notate a composition. Where is the experiment? Music can be innovative, eclectic, and unpredictable (to the listener) without being experimental. Contrast this to the first time Cage put 20 radios in a room and swept across the frequencies - I would suggest that this was experimental - i.e. "what is this going to sound like?" (and will always be indeterminate to the extent that one cannot predict what sounds will be broadcast by the transmitters at the time of the performance). To label music "experimental" solely because it is innovative or eclectic assumes a definition of experimental of which I am unaware (and strips it of the meaning that I currently assume). I would suggest that the most experimental aspect of FNM's albums is whether or not their record company is going to make any profit (i.e. whether people are going to buy it). Am I completely off the mark? Cappy D'Angelo Student at Law - Intellectual Property Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion Victoria, B.C., CANADA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@UVic.CA> Subject: re:time sigs Date: 08 Apr 1998 17:06:30 -0700 (PDT) For those of you who never notate or read notated music, and never use conductors, the difference between these may not be relevant - as long as you can work out where you want the accents. It is otherwise usually helpful to have a time signature in order to determine heavy or subtle accents where they are consistent in a work (or particular idiom). Eg 3/4 is usually assumed to be waltz-like, whereas 6/8 is usually assumed to be gigue-like. Where accents are not meant to be implied unless specifically notated, composers often do away with them altogether (see Satie's Messe des Pauvres for an example of this). Other technicalities, such as beaming, are usually different between, for example, 3/4 (eights grouped in 2 or 4) and 6/8 (eights grouped in threes). One difference between 4/4 and 8/8 is that a traditional conductor would assume to conduct the former "in 4" and the latter "in 8". If you're sightreading with a ensemble, not knowing this could be embarrassing! Cappy D'Angelo Student at Law - Intellectual Property Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion Victoria, B.C., CANADA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Time sigs Date: 09 Apr 1998 10:50:40 +1000 > I'm in agreement with whomever it was (sorry, I forgot) that said he > dispenses with the number underneath in the time signatures. There are > minor differences in the feels of 4/4 and 8/8 in many cases and to me (and > my band) it's more worth while to say a tune is in 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 10, > etc. In many cases I feel that 3 is different than 6... In most cases, the > differences are the length of the melodic phrase or the bassline or > whatever might signify a "1" in the music. That's why I originally said "6 > and 7" makes more sense to me than "13" does. Unless, of course, the > phrase is 13 beats long and not more like 6 then 7. Now that I think about > it, this is sort of a strange thread we've got here... It's true that there isn't a difference really between 3/8 and 3/4, or 4/8 and 4/4. But there is actually quite a difference between 8/8, 4/4 and 2/2 and the other simple duples. Just as an example, I was trying to arrange Zorn's "Sex Fiend", and found that the opening groove (right after the intro) seemed completely wrong in 4/4, it needed to be notated in 2/2, because of the accents. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: the residents Date: 09 Apr 1998 11:09:31 +1000 What would people recommend as good Residents? I already have "Hell!" but that's it. I'm also wondering which album(s) have the song "Constantinople" on them? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sfunk@pop.adn.com (Stephen Funk) Subject: Re: the residents Date: 08 Apr 1998 17:22:04 -1000 >What would people recommend as good Residents? 1. ESKIMO 2. MEET THE RESIDENTS 3. THE COMMERCIAL ALBUM 4. THE THIRD REICH AND ROLL 5. MARK OF THE MOLE > I'm also wondering which album(s) have the song "Constantinople" >on them? I believe this is on: 6. DUCK STAB It's almost all great, but these albums are a place to start. - Steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gauthier Michelle A <7mag2@qlink.queensu.ca> Subject: Re: the residents Date: 08 Apr 1998 23:42:04 -0400 (EDT) Julian: Three albums you need to pick up by the Residents are: 1. Third Reich and Roll 2. Buster and Glen 3. Eskimo ****************** A must!!!! On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Julian wrote: > What would people recommend as good Residents? I already have "Hell!" but > that's it. I'm also wondering which album(s) have the song "Constantinople" > on them? > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jonas Thompson" <swinginjoe@hotmail.com> Subject: sanborn Date: 08 Apr 1998 22:08:58 MDT sanborn's presence on diminutive mysteries still surprises me, but hemphill himself makes comments in the liner notes that imply that he is the connection between sanborn and berne. at first i thought sanborn sounded surprisingly good on berne's album, but the more i listen, it seems that he is imitating the style, and doesn't really mean what he is playing. any opinions of his spy vs. spy playing? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: the residents Date: 09 Apr 1998 00:46:04 -0400 (EDT) > Three albums you need to pick up by the Residents are: > > 1. Third Reich and Roll > 2. Buster and Glen > 3. Eskimo ****************** A must!!!! And then there's the one where they do their own version of a James Brown live show, and then some covers of Gershwin (!). -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Steve Reich boxset Date: 09 Apr 1998 08:52:26 +0200 > Here's the list again - Tehillim is on it, as is *both* Come Out and It's > Gonna Rain. But Phase Patterns *and* Violin Phase are *not* on it. I see both Electric Counterpoint en New York Counterpoint are on the list but there was at least one other Counterpoint, I think it was called Vermont Counterpoint (for clarinets, if I'm remembering well). YVes - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Artur Nowak" <arno@silesia.top.pl> Subject: Bet on Jazz or beton jazz Date: 09 Apr 1998 10:13:41 +0200 >BTW: If your cable system gets the BET ON JAZZ station, you can see >Night Music reruns several times a day. Woo-hoo! (I think their Web >page is http://www.betonjazz.com/ but I could be wrong. A web search >should find it.) Funny: www.betonjazz.com - for me it means: beton jazz, concrete-jazz. Like: the jazz that is closed for any new ideas. I could have Bet on Jazz, anybody can tell me if this station is worth having? Do they play concrete-jazz or good jazz too? I don't expect Zorn in lunch time, but... ____________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/emd/pl40/artists/f/frisell_bill/default.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Artur Nowak" <arno@silesia.top.pl> Subject: Odp: the residents Date: 09 Apr 1998 10:12:19 +0200 >What would people recommend as good Residents? I already have "Hell!" but >that's it. I'm also wondering which album(s) have the song "Constantinople" >on them? If you like songs and funny lyrics, a good record to start is "Commercial Album". If you won't like this record, you won't like the Residents; this record is typical for their sense of humor (BTW: does ZORN has sense of humor? Anybody knows?). First four albums are great (NOT in terms of sound quality, be prepared for lo-fi): - "MEET THE RESIDENTS" LP RALPH 02.1974. - "THE THIRD REICH'N'ROLL" LP RALPH (RR1075) 01.02.1976. - "FINGERPRICE" LP RALPH (RR1276) 02.1977. - "NOT AVAILABLE" LP RALPH (RR1174) 1978. "Eskimo" is one of a kind - this is some sort of eskimo-country-music played on analog synths. The whole album illustrates short stories included in the booklet. "For maximum enjoyment, this record should be listened to with headphones while reading the enclosed verbal accounts of what you hear. The disc should be played in its entirety and in the proper sequence of sides. A relaxed state of mind is essential. Warm clothing or a blanket should be within easy reach" - from liner notes. I don't recommend "Big Bubble" - what the hell is this record about? The only bad Resident's album I know. "Pal TV LP" is very nice, BTW: is the CD available? "13th Anniversary Show - Live in Japan" "Stars and Hank Forever" - first side: remakes of Hank Williams country-songs, I LOVE Residents' versions, they became some kind of "hits", "Kaw-Liga" was remixed many times (not only by Residents themselves), the version on this album has original drums samples taken from Michael Jacksons "Billy Jean" - Residents were sample-somebody-and-make-your-own-music pioneers! The second side is music of John Philip SOUSA (you all Americans know him well!) arranged for supermarkets (or cyrcus). Last 10 years were not so good, as the first 10, I like "King and Eye", but the rest is too smooth and clean (DDD, E-mu samplers and Shure microphones). Highly recommended are their videos, and CD-ROMs. Early '80 videos were made on Apple - you can imagine these 8 colours less-then-VGA graphics! "Constantinople" is available on: - "THE BEST OF RAPLH RECORDS" 2LP RALPH 1982. VERY good compilation! - "DUCK STAB" EP - "DUCK STAB / BUSTER AND GLEN" CD - "PLEAE DO NOT STEAL IT!" LP 1979 - limited <1000 copies - "ASSORTED SECRETS" tape - limited <2000 copies - "LIVE IN THE USA" CD - "LIVE IN HOLLAND" CD More info on: http://www.residents.com/ I you will get "Please do not steal it" - please let me know ;-) Artur ____________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/emd/pl40/artists/f/frisell_bill/default.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque <Dgasque@aol.com> Subject: Re: Caroliner, Secret Chiefs to tour Aus... Date: 09 Apr 1998 04:18:14 EDT In a message dated 98-04-05 23:59:25 EDT, you (James Douglas Knox) wrote: << Have you heard any of the LPs by Caroliner? Some great things happening there, with (I think) Trey Spruance or Trevor Dunn onboard. Someone here will know. Some of the Amarillo 7-inchs are v funny in a special way, also. >> I agree- Caroliner LPs are worth the search. I got mine from Good as Any...Better 'n' Some (Dan sells them for about as cheap as anybody, and seems to keep most of them in stock.) Crazy noise, and the most irritating vocalist you'll ever hear...but that's a good thing. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque <Dgasque@aol.com> Subject: Re: Math Rock Date: 09 Apr 1998 04:18:18 EDT In a message dated 98-04-07 06:43:53 EDT, you (J.T. de Boer) write: << Cynic-Focus; The band who delivered their drummer ans guitarplayer to (IMHO) the best metal album ever made; Human by Death. Cynic does also 'focus' on a combination of metal and jazz. They're not as agressive as Meshuggah, but their songs are beautiful: based in the 70's jazzrock tradition. The music is rather easy to listen to, partly because of the very strong (in a musical sense) dynamics. Very good musicians. >> Been looking for these Cynic CDs (I think there's 2 of them.) Anyone know a dealer who still carries them? np: RRK- Rip, Rig, and Panic =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "D. Gschwend Gschwend D. Atelier" <gda@pingnet.li> Date: 09 Apr 1998 12:10:43 +0200 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re: Tim Berne & David Sanborn Date: 08 Apr 1998 19:32:45 -0500 IOUaLive1 wrote: > > They have played live together, in "Spy Vs. Spy". At at least one show, there > was Zorn, Berne, and Sanborn reading Zorn's charts and blowing like mad. There is some footage of this floating around. It was a part of a documentary called "Put Blood In The Music" that was aired on PBS about 10 years ago. Besides the Spy vs Spy clip, there is a scene shot inside Zorn's apartment as he goes through his LP collection. Rich - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Roscoe Mitchell in NYC Date: 09 Apr 1998 08:40:58 -0500 Roscoe Mitchell will be having a 20th anniversary performance of his LRG/The Maze/S II Examples on Monday, April 27 at 7:30 at the Tribeca Performing Arts Center on 199 Chambers St. Line-up includes: Joseph Jarman, George Lewis, Leo Smith, Doug Ewart, Malachi Favors, Tani Tabbal and others. Sounds promising, to say the least. Brian Olewnick Listening to: Braxton's 'Dona Lee' (sic) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Bet on Jazz or beton jazz Date: 09 Apr 1998 09:34:52 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Artur Nowak wrote: > Funny: www.betonjazz.com - for me it means: beton jazz, concrete-jazz. Like: > the jazz that is closed for any new ideas. I could have Bet on Jazz, anybody > can tell me if this station is worth having? Do they play concrete-jazz or good > jazz too? I don't expect Zorn in lunch time, but... If concrete jazz has any relation to musique concrete, odds are that it'll show up on Tzadik eventually :-) - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com> Subject: Re: experimentation Date: 08 Apr 1998 11:11:37 -0400 On Wed, 8 Apr 1998 16:38:09 -0700 (PDT) "Cappy D'Angelo" said: > By definition, experimentation suggests that the initiator of the process > cannot predict the end result - there is uncertainty or tentativeness. > Composers such as Varese (or Stravinsky, or Zorn with respect to his > "composed" music) are masters of their trade in part because they can > accurately predict the result when they notate a composition. Where is > the experiment? Music can be innovative, eclectic, and unpredictable > (to the listener) without being experimental. > Actually this is a very good point. Yes, a lot of the composers you mentioned do use scores so where the output/music is determined. It depends how exact you want to get with your definition of 'experimental.' When it's done in the scientific community, you start with a hypothesis that says 'this will happen' or 'this won't happen'- it's something you're trying to prove or disprove. Usually, if you don't get the results you want, you might try it again or try another tact. There isn't a lot of guess work here- you're looking for a certain result so you're working within determined parameters. Right, we're talking about music and not science but how did the word 'experimental' get carried over to the music then? It didn't have its origins in music so what were people originally thinking when they applied this tag to music? Cage's scores left a lot of things open to chance so maybe you could say that his 'hypotheses' were 'is the result of these chance happenings good music?' Then again, when a composer creates innovative music even with a set score, it's blazing some kind of new path and taking some kind of chance on acceptance or rejection. No final answers here just some more good questions... Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: wynton marsalis Date: 10 Apr 1998 01:10:20 +1000 If I'm not mistaken, some people on this list were saying a while ago how much they hated Wynton. I personally have only heard the slightest little bit and couldn't make judgements from that, but one of my friends thinks he's some sort of genius or something. Granted he's not as well-equipped with music knowledge as we are on this list, but I was wondering how it could be that there could be so much of a difference in opinion. So, those who were talking about Wynton a while ago, could you explain to me what it was that you disliked about him? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Steve Reich boxset Date: 09 Apr 1998 08:32:38 -0800 Yves Dewulf writes: > I see both Electric Counterpoint en New York Counterpoint are on the > list but there was at least one other Counterpoint, I > think it was called Vermont Counterpoint (for clarinets, if I'm > remembering well). > It is "Vermont Counterpoint," but it's for a flute soloist [who has previously overdubbed parts on tape]. It has been recorded on ECM, but I don't think the CD currently is in print - I've actually been looking for it for a few years now, ever since a friend performed the piece in recital. Another important piece on ECM, not in the box set, is the "Octet." I think this one is still available, fortunately. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: wynton marsalis Date: 09 Apr 1998 10:37:23 -0500 (CDT) On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Julian wrote: > If I'm not mistaken, some people on this list were saying a while ago how > much they hated Wynton. I personally have only heard the slightest little > bit and couldn't make judgements from that, but one of my friends thinks > he's some sort of genius or something. Granted he's not as well-equipped > with music knowledge as we are on this list, but I was wondering how it > could be that there could be so much of a difference in opinion. So, those > who were talking about Wynton a while ago, could you explain to me what it > was that you disliked about him? I don't know that he's any sort of a genius. He is a rather good trumpeter (to my ears) in the areas he specializes in, and a competent composer. He sticks to conservative genres, which is OK, even if I don't often tend to choose to listen to him much. The first CD I ever bought (after a few thousand records) was one of his, and I didn't regret it. The problem with him is not what he plays so much as what he says. He seems to have decided that the stuff he plays (tonal, harmonically-structured jazz, hewing closely to its traditions as established before, say, 1965) is the ultimate form of music, and that everything that has followed is worthless. He has repeatedly derided rock, funk, and free playing. This is true of many other musicians too, most of whom are a whole lot older than him. He, however, has been granted a bully pulpit due to shrewd marketing (and a lot of hard work), so his ideas have locked in the ears of a lot of people and made it more difficult for them to expand their horizons to much of the music in which this list specializes. There are more insidious things out there (such as the entire smooth jazz thing, featuring Kenny G and his Wonder Bread school of music), but Wynton is the most visible symbol of repressive conservatism in jazz, and thus the most accessible target for the venom of those who disagree. - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Steve Reich boxset Date: 09 Apr 1998 10:46:14 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, George Grella wrote: > It is "Vermont Counterpoint," but it's for a flute soloist [who has > previously overdubbed parts on tape]. It has been recorded on ECM, but > I don't think the CD currently is in print - I've actually been looking > for it for a few years now, ever since a friend performed the piece in > recital. I don't know of an CM recording, but Ransom Wilson's LP containing it was on Angel/EMI. I haven't seen a performance of that piece, but I saw Pat Metheny perform Electric Counterpoint and found the live performance kinda pointless. I could see doing a version with all the parts live, or listening to the all-recorded record. However, there didn't seem to be much of a reason that that one part which was done live was singled out from all the others, and the live performance struck me as a poor compromise with the music (though it was well played). I'd love to see a large guitar ensemble play that (possibly followed by some Glenn Branca!). - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re:wynton marsalis Date: 09 Apr 1998 16:28:23 UT Not knowing anything about Wynton or horn playing, but willing to comment anyway: I think what we've got here is the Music School vs. the Music Lover. I've noticed a lot of music school people, who are very interested in learning a trade, ie: playing an intstrument, are NOT interested in expanding their musical experiences. When they say someone like Wynton is a genius, it probably has everything to do with excellent technique and nothing to do with the reasons music lovers tend to listen to music: honesty, emotion, new ideas, interesting techniques, great tunes, etc. It's like the guitar-heads who love Steve Vai, who makes the most sterile records imaginable. Yeah, he's a fine guitar player, maybe even a genius with the guitar, but what's he DOING with that playing ability? Yawn. Maybe that's not what's going on at all. But it's something I've noticed. PeterR ____________________Reply Separator____________________ Author: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com If I'm not mistaken, some people on this list were saying a while ago how much they hated Wynton. I personally have only heard the slightest little bit and couldn't make judgements from that, but one of my friends thinks he's some sort of genius or something. Granted he's not as well-equipped with music knowledge as we are on this list, but I was wondering how it could be that there could be so much of a difference in opinion. So, those who were talking about Wynton a while ago, could you explain to me what it was that you disliked about him? - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Steve Reich boxset Date: 09 Apr 1998 09:56:14 -0800 Joseph S. Zitt writes: > I don't know of an CM recording, but Ransom Wilson's LP containing it was > on Angel/EMI. > > I haven't seen a performance of that piece, but I saw Pat Metheny perform > Electric Counterpoint and found the live performance kinda pointless. I > could see doing a version with all the parts live, or listening to the > all-recorded record. However, there didn't seem to be much of a reason > that that one part which was done live was singled out from all the > others, and the live performance struck me as a poor compromise with the > music (though it was well played). I believe that EMI recording is also out of print; there's a John Adams piece on it as well, Shaker Loops or Phrygian Gates, I can't remember. The performance of Vermont Counterpoint was good and interesting. The piece calls for Flute, Bass Flute and Piccolo. All those instruments are on the prerecorded tape and are also played live by the performer. The "solo" part calls for a different member of the flute family at different points in the piece, so there's the quality of the performer following lines as they modulate through different voices. Very satisfying. There's another "version" of the Electric Counterpoint, Acoustic Counterpoint, which I've seen performed by a guitar ensemble, which again is a satisfying live piece. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: Steve Reich boxset Date: 09 Apr 1998 13:31:51 -0500 >I believe that EMI recording is also out of print; there's a John Adams >piece on it as well, Shaker Loops or Phrygian Gates, I can't remember. I think you're thinking of the Phillips release with Reich's 'Variations for String Orchestra' (a rearranging of 'Octet') and 'Shaker Loops'. The Angel/EMI Ransom Wilson release had 'Vermont Counterpoint', Glass' 'Facades' (a pretty enough piece) and a rather horrendous work by Frank (?) Becker called 'Stonehenge'. Um, isn't it safe to say that, a priori, ANY piece called 'Stonehenge' is going to be awful? Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: wynton marsalis Date: 09 Apr 1998 13:44:45 -0400 (EDT) I always thought that Wynton Kelly was one of the best pianists Miles Davis ever employed. He could swing like Red Garland and do the softer stuff like Bill Evans. And he (and Jimmy Cobb and Paul Chambers) also did some great work with Wes Montgomery on some live sessions in the 1960s. So why would we hate Wynton? Oh it's W. Marsalis you're talking about. Isn't he some classical music administrator looking for a set repretoire that can only be played in well-appointed halls? What does he have to do with free improvisation? Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Julian wrote: > If I'm not mistaken, some people on this list were saying a while ago how > much they hated Wynton. I personally have only heard the slightest little > bit and couldn't make judgements from that, but one of my friends thinks > he's some sort of genius or something. Granted he's not as well-equipped > with music knowledge as we are on this list, but I was wondering how it > could be that there could be so much of a difference in opinion. So, those > who were talking about Wynton a while ago, could you explain to me what it > was that you disliked about him? > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pierre Toussaint <m223024@er.uqam.ca> Subject: re: the residents Date: 09 Apr 1998 13:51:01 -0400 "Constantinople" is either on "Duck Stab" (1977) or "Buster & Glenn" (1978) ep's. I think these two cd's have been released on one CD. It's also available on the ryko disc compilation "Our tired, our poor, our huddled masses" (1997). Wich, by the way, is probably the best way to discover this band. But it is also simply great for anyone who dislikes commercial music. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re[3]: Re[2]: Steve Reich boxset Date: 09 Apr 1998 18:58:04 UT On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, George Grella wrote: > It is "Vermont Counterpoint," but it's for a flute soloist [who has > previously overdubbed parts on tape]. It has been recorded on ECM, but > I don't think the CD currently is in print - I've actually been looking > for it for a few years now, ever since a friend performed the piece in > recital. I'm not sure what the name was, but I definitely saw a Reich piece performed by 8 clarinets and 3 bass clarinets. I'd never really been into his stuff before, but live it was definitely very cool. PeterR - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Sherry <msherry@psych.umass.edu> Subject: Music Scores Date: 09 Apr 1998 14:26:15 -0400 (EDT) With Zorn's focus on music for films, has there been much discussion here about scores for movies? I am not talking about the movie compilations using lots of different rock numbers but the more organic music composed for movies yet capable of standing on its own, such as the scores by Bernard Herrmann. And can anyone recommend great movie scores from now or yesteryear? I heard that Psycho and oddly enough seventh Voyage of Sinbad were particularly good. Mike Sherry - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sfunk@pop.adn.com (Stephen Funk) Subject: Re: Music Scores Date: 09 Apr 1998 10:36:24 -1000 > And can anyone recommend great movie scores from now >or yesteryear? I heard that Psycho and oddly enough seventh Voyage of >Sinbad were particularly good. >Mike Sherry > Well, theres "Titanic".... just kidding!!!!! Seriously, "Psycho" by Hermann is a definite must. You might also try: - "Once Upon A Time in The West" by Ennio Morricone (and his other stuff) - "The Man With The Golden Arm" by Elmer Bernstein - "On The Waterfront" by Leonard Bernstein - "The Omen" by Jerry Goldsmith - "Contempt" by Georges Delarue (sp?) - Steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Cynical Hysterie Hour Date: 09 Apr 1998 19:28:25 UT What are the chances of ever seeing this cartoon here in the states? Maybe Tzadik will start a video division? PeterR - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: Music Scores Date: 09 Apr 1998 14:50:01 -0500 >With Zorn's focus on music for films, has there been much discussion >here about scores for movies? I am not talking about the movie >compilations using lots of different rock numbers but the more organic >music composed for movies yet capable of standing on its own, such as >the scores by Bernard Herrmann. And can anyone recommend great movie >scores from now or yesteryear? I heard that Psycho and oddly enough >seventh Voyage of Sinbad were particularly good. >Mike Sherry Among relatively recent issues (and maybe stretching the term 'soundtrack' a bit), I've greatly enjoyed Simon Fisher Turner's work, particularly 'Blue' (and 'Live Blue Roma') and 'The Last of England' both for films of the late Derek Jarman. But everything I've heard by him has had something of value, even in his pop incarnation as the King of Luxembourg. Other individual scores I've liked a lot in the past couple of years include Frank London's 'The Schvitz' and Zhao Jiping's 'Raise the Red Lantern'. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Movie Scores (was Music Scores) Date: 09 Apr 1998 15:03:13 -0400 >>>>> "Michael" == Michael Sherry <msherry@psych.umass.edu> writes: Michael> With Zorn's focus on music for films, has there been much Michael> discussion here about scores for movies? I am not Michael> talking about the movie compilations using lots of Michael> different rock numbers but the more organic music Michael> composed for movies yet capable of standing on its own, Michael> such as the scores by Bernard Herrmann. And can anyone Michael> recommend great movie scores from now or yesteryear? I Michael> heard that Psycho and oddly enough seventh Voyage of Michael> Sinbad were particularly good. Mike Sherry Night on Earth, by Tom Waits. We just rented the movie last week and saw this excellent piece for the first time, but Waits' music is also excellent. There is a soundtrack which I've got, but I haven't listened to it since we saw the movie, so I can't make any additional comments. Eleni Karaindrou has three soundtrack albums on ECM (not to bring that bunch up again, but...). The first, Music for Films, is a compilation from a bunch of different movies, and does include Jan Garbarek on some tracks. The most recent, Ulysses' Gaze, is much more soundtrack-like with the same theme repeated in different (sometimes not so different) ways. All of them are mostly string orchestra, very melodic and romantic with a touch of melancholy, suitable for late night listening. Additional info on Karaindrou is at http://www.ecmrecords.com/ecm/artists/213.html. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: wynton marsalis Date: 09 Apr 1998 12:33:34 -0800 Peter Risser writes: > I think what we've got here is the Music School vs. the Music Lover. I've > noticed a lot > of music school people, who are very interested in learning a trade, ie: playing > an intstrument, > are NOT interested in expanding their musical experiences. When they say > someone like Wynton is a genius, > it probably has everything to do with excellent technique and nothing to do with > the reasons music > lovers tend to listen to music: honesty, emotion, new ideas, interesting > techniques, great tunes, etc. > I have to object to this, calmly, but strongly. I am a music school person, with instrumental training that began in my early teens that culminated in a Masters in composition from a conservatory, and as such a person, I can say that such a generalization is foolish and dead wrong. Music shool people spend their time, in years, and their money, in tens of thousands of dollars, to do something they love. If there is a "trade" in playing instruments, then let me in on it, because myself and many, many thousands of musicians would love to find these jobs. The hundreds of "music shool" peers I've been around were expanding their entire repertoire of musical skills; playing their instrument, deepening their knowledge of theory and harmony and history, sharpening their listening, their ensemble playing and their experience of the entire repertoire of music. The scope of music is so vast that no one could become an expert in all of it, so of course people make their choices as to what really moves them, but they learn to be musicians. And as musicians, they are a lot more capable of hearing honesty, emotion, new ideas, great tunes and especially interesting techniques than "music lovers." In all my years in musical life, 20 some now, I have never seen the variety, depth and adventurousness in music that I find in conservatory ANYWHERE in the public of "music lovers." It's the "music lovers" whose dollars are supporting all the dishonest, emotionless, trite, cliched and dull pop music [of all stripes and styles] that deluges the world today. It is the "music lovers" whose dollars lead to the "top 40" programming of classical organizations like the New York Phil [their new season schedule is just appalling, seemingly dictated by the marketing department], while musicians gnash their teeth in frustration over not getting anything that is risky. And it is the "music lovers" who find Wynton Marsalis a "genius," when to a musician, her certainly is not. Capable on his horn, yes, able to write exceedingly derivative jazz pieces, yes . . . uninteresting to music shool people, absolutely. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Music Scores Date: 09 Apr 1998 12:47:01 -0800 Michael Sherry writes: > With Zorn's focus on music for films, has there been much discussion here > about scores for movies? I am not talking about the movie compilations > using lots of different rock numbers but the more organic music composed > for movies yet capable of standing on its own, such as the scores by > Bernard Herrmann. And can anyone recommend great movie scores from now > or yesteryear? I heard that Psycho and oddly enough seventh Voyage of > Sinbad were particularly good. > There's a lot of great movie music out there, organic movie music, young and old. I'll try not to be too redundant with what other people have/will say: Herrmann is a giant, and there are many recordings available, including collections which are great for movie music. There's recent one on Sony which includes suites from "Psycho," "Vertigo," "Fahrenheit 451" and "Taxi Driver." You can also get the complete "Vertigo" recording, which is one of the greatest movie scores ever. There's another collection on RCA, and two on London, including one for science fiction movies; that one has the "Sinbad" music as well as "Journey to the Center of the Earth" and "The Day The Earth Stood Still," with it's eerie Theremin part. The RCA and other London CD have a lot of overlap; I would recommend the Sony as covering them both. There's also another collection on Milan, but again, a lot of the same stuff [although it's not the same conductor/orchestra each time, for whatever that's worth]. There's two collections of Morricone themes, just the main themes alone, on Virgin. Plus you can also get his scores for many westerns and for "The Mission," which should have won the Oscar [for original score, Herbie Hancock was given the Oscar for arranging standards, and writing no original music, for "'Round Midnight"]. Elmer Bernstein and Jerry Goldsmith have been mentioned, I would add recordings of "The Magnificent Seven" and "Chinatown" respectively, although good luck in finding the latter; I had to pay $32 for an import LP a few years ago. Marco Polo lable has a series of new recordings of movie music, including Delarue's work for Truffaut and a couple CDs of Arthur Honnegger's work for several movies. There's famous film music by Prokofiev and Shostakovich, of course. Ry Cooder has done a lot of geat music for Walter Hill; "Trespass" has been recommended, and maybe someday we'll all be able to get "The Long Riders" CD. There's also two recent recordings work by Howard Shore for "Naked Lunch," with Ornetter, and "Crash." Soundtracks, not just the pop-marketed stuff, are becoming a bigger part of music sales, so that means that there is more and more stuff available, fortunately. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris Barrett" <cbarrett@neaq.org> Subject: Re: wynton marsalis Date: 09 Apr 1998 16:43:27 -0400 >Peter Risser writes: >> I think what we've got here is the Music School vs. the Music Lover. >> >George Grella writes: >I have to object to this, calmly, but strongly. I am a music school >person, with instrumental training that began in my early teens that >culminated in a Masters in composition from a conservatory, and as such >a person.......... >And as musicians, they are a lot more capable of hearing honesty, >emotion, new ideas, great tunes and especially interesting techniques >than "music lovers." In all my years in musical life, 20 some now, I >have never seen the variety, depth and adventurousness in music that I >find in conservatory ANYWHERE in the public of "music lovers." >etc. I think we have a couple of point of views that are too absolute. I have been a musician for over 15 years, but with very limited formal training. My father had extensive formal training and over his twenty year career (he hasn't played professionally much in the last 15 years or so) included stints most notably with Buddy Rich among others. He definitely had much more formal training than I did, and was a much more accomplished musician in almost every way than I was at the same age, and still much more than I am currently. My point is this, he has little to no appreciation for much adventurous music. He has evolved into a fan of (shudder) Kenny G among others. Granted Buddy Rich was not really much of an innovator, but I'm trying to prove a point that really, music schooling doesn't really make the difference in someone's ability to appreciate different types of music. My biggest issue is with a key component of George's argument, which seems to imply that only a conservatory (or similarly formally) trained musician can truly appreciate (good/adventurous) music, and that "music loving" non-musicians like only "crap" (or at least shallow "top 40"). Let me know if I interpreted this wrong. If I didn't, then I have to completely disagree. I have many friends who do not know the first thing about music who love a wide variety of music, much of which, after seeing everyone's lists, is appreciatedon this list. I also have known formally trained musicians (some very amazing players) who only appreciate or recognize a narrow area of music. Ultimately my point is this...music training in itself does not teach one everything about music, in fact all it does teach you in many ways is how to express yourself in a way that others will understand you. Knowing where a piece changes key, how it modulates, what time signature its in, or any number of different possibilities does not mean you are going to like or even understand the composer's intent in the same way that not knowing those things does not mean you cannot like a piece of music. I've always felt that musicians, as a whole, can be quite elitist about that fact. I've also felt that musicians often do not always have the best ears when it comes to hearing a complete piece of music (as opposed to a cool part or modulation or whatever). I think this is most obvious when you speak of the Steve Vai's and other shred/rock players or the Spyro Gyras and Dave Weckyls or whatever. I guess in the end I'm trying to say that just cuz you're a monster on your intrument it don't mean you automatically got taste too and just cuz you don't know nuthin 'bout the formal structure of music don't mean you don't understand the music -- you just might have difficulty expressing your understanding to others. (whew) -Chris "Anyone can enjoy music, it's disliking it that takes training" - Philip K. Dick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jtalbot@massart.edu Subject: "put blood in the music" Date: 09 Apr 1998 17:38:45 -0400 >There is some footage of this floating around. It was a part of a >documentary called "Put Blood In The Music" that was aired on PBS about >10 years ago. Besides the Spy vs Spy clip, there is a scene shot inside >Zorn's apartment as he goes through his LP collection. does anybody have a copy of this? please respond privately. thanks jason jtalbot@massart.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phil Plencner <plencner@lnd.com> Subject: Re: Residents Date: 09 Apr 1998 16:38:09 -0500 Well, I happen to like the CD with both Duck Stab and Buster & Glen on it a lot. It has the song contantinople on it, plus other great songs like Bach Is Dead,Birthday Boy and Sinister Exaggerator (later covered by Primus on Misc. Debris...by the way I think a lot of the vocals on Duck Stab, among other Residents albums, sounds similar to how Les Claypool sings...) The album FingerPrince is also quite good. I happen to like the 6 movement "ballet" called Six Things To A Cycle. Its mostly percussion and weird vocals. For a broad overview of the Residents, the 2CD "Our Tired, Our Poor, Our Huddled Masses" collection is quite nice. It has a lot of their early "classic" stuff as well as some of their newer works. Many of the albums were put onto this collection in the form of what they call a "Concentrate". They take portions of the original album and paste it together into one continous song. I think it works pretty well.... Phil - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Music Scores Date: 09 Apr 1998 15:10:32 -0700 My favorite movie scores, in no particular order: Howard Shore: Dead Ringers, Music from the films of David Cronenburg - George Grella mentions "Naked Lunch" and "Crash", which are both excellent, but this disc is essential for the material from "Scanners", massively creepy electronics and strings. Shore is a fantastic comnposer. Jerry Goldsmith: Planet of the Apes - Generally I think Goldsmith is kind of a hack, but this score, a serial piece for a percussion-heavy orchestra, is pretty cool. Parts sound remarkably like Harry Partch. Scott Johnson: Patty Hearst - I think this has been out of print for a while, but it's a very cool piece interweaving vocal loops from the films dialog with some very nice minimalist compostions. Morricone: Hamlet - Morricone is great, what can I saw, this is perhaps my favorite. For cheese value, find his score to "The Excorcist 2" Carter Burwell: Fargo/Barton Fink - Burwell's elegant scores have always seemed a bit out of place in the Coen Bro's films, but they stand on their own very well. Ry Cooder: Trespass - Yeah, I know it's not cool to like this on this list since Zorn was screwed out of this score, but this, with Cooder, Jim Keltner and Jon Hassell, is one of my favorite records of pure atmosphere, if you program around the country and blues tunes at the end. Uh oh, is this another top 20 thread in the making.... ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: wynton marsalis Date: 09 Apr 1998 15:35:47 -0800 Chris Barrett writes: > My point is this, he has little to no appreciation for much > adventurous music. He has evolved into a fan of (shudder) Kenny G among > others. Granted Buddy Rich was not really much of an innovator, but I'm > trying to prove a point that really, music schooling doesn't really make > the difference in someone's ability to appreciate different types of music. > > > My biggest issue is with a key component of George's argument, which seems > to imply that only a conservatory (or similarly formally) trained musician > can truly appreciate (good/adventurous) music, and that "music loving" > non-musicians like only "crap" (or at least shallow "top 40"). Let me know > if I interpreted this wrong. If I didn't, then I have to completely > disagree. > Yes, you did interpret me wrong. What I saw and responded to was some musical snobbery that I have seen too often and can't stand; this fallacy that training and chops = no heart and no ears. Garbage. I don't feel my expression was absolutist, because I don't feel that way, but perhaps I expressed myself badly. But I can say this, absolutely, that for anyone who has any appreciation for music, musical training is a good thing, any amount of it. Personal taste may run to, and stick to, Yngwie Malmsteen, but that's taste, and has nothing to do with being a "music schooler" or a "music lover." Which also gets to my point; you can't denigrate taste in music, and bad music existing and people loving it [whatever you feel is bad] by saying that the people who love bad music are "schoolers" who can't hear what "lovers" can. That was the post, and that's my response, plain and simple. Sorry if I indicated that only trained musicians can be adventurous, I know that's not the case; I was merely being hyperbolic. But I don't feel it hyperbolic to say that denigrating taste by excusing it as that of a "music schooler" is on the same level of discourse as George Bush calling Dukakis a "car-carrying member of the ACLU." So what? I can't stand Respighi and Michael Nyman, what does that have to do with ear training and dictation, theory and analysis, history, lessons and practicing, orchestration, being required to know and play music of all centuries? Does that mean I can't love music? Tell me I can't. I'll be paying off my love of music for years to come. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: wynton marsalis Date: 09 Apr 1998 18:59:30 -0400 (EDT) I think what Chris was trying to address is the concept among SOME trained msuicians that only they can understand exactly what's happening in certain musics. The sort of falacy that you really aren't appreciating Jim Hall or Ed Bickert or whomever because you don't realize that he just snuck a quote in from "Hothouse" in the middle of bar 23 of "God Bless the Child" (just made that up for a bad, quick example). The other fallacy when it comes to some sort of music, including the creative, improvised stuff we like, is that only critics and "fans" can't appreciate it, "true" musicians have the training to know what's going on. This is particularly funny when you recall that the main people who put down both Monk and the early avant garde were musicians of the older school -Roy Eldridge, Kenny Dorham, Andre Previn, Sonny Stitt, Buddy DeFranco etc. My supposition was because they how the instrument SHOULD sound when they heard Ayler or Monk or whomever not making those sounds, they felt they couldn't properly be playing music. I have more faith in the many people I know who have no musicial training, but who like or dislike certain musics because they reach them on a visceral level. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, George Grella wrote: > Chris Barrett writes: > > > > My point is this, he has little to no appreciation for much > > adventurous music. He has evolved into a fan of (shudder) Kenny G among > > others. Granted Buddy Rich was not really much of an innovator, but I'm > > trying to prove a point that really, music schooling doesn't really make > > the difference in someone's ability to appreciate different types of music. > > > > > > My biggest issue is with a key component of George's argument, which seems > > to imply that only a conservatory (or similarly formally) trained musician > > can truly appreciate (good/adventurous) music, and that "music loving" > > non-musicians like only "crap" (or at least shallow "top 40"). Let me know > > if I interpreted this wrong. If I didn't, then I have to completely > > disagree. > > > > Yes, you did interpret me wrong. What I saw and responded to was some > musical snobbery that I have seen too often and can't stand; this > fallacy that training and chops = no heart and no ears. Garbage. I > don't feel my expression was absolutist, because I don't feel that way, > but perhaps I expressed myself badly. But I can say this, absolutely, > that for anyone who has any appreciation for music, musical training is > a good thing, any amount of it. Personal taste may run to, and stick > to, Yngwie Malmsteen, but that's taste, and has nothing to do with being > a "music schooler" or a "music lover." Which also gets to my point; you > can't denigrate taste in music, and bad music existing and people loving > it [whatever you feel is bad] by saying that the people who love bad > music are "schoolers" who can't hear what "lovers" can. That was the > post, and that's my response, plain and simple. Sorry if I indicated > that only trained musicians can be adventurous, I know that's not the > case; I was merely being hyperbolic. But I don't feel it hyperbolic to > say that denigrating taste by excusing it as that of a "music schooler" > is on the same level of discourse as George Bush calling Dukakis a > "car-carrying member of the ACLU." So what? I can't stand Respighi and > Michael Nyman, what does that have to do with ear training and > dictation, theory and analysis, history, lessons and practicing, > orchestration, being required to know and play music of all centuries? > Does that mean I can't love music? Tell me I can't. I'll be paying off > my love of music for years to come. > > gg > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Music School vs. Music Lover Date: 09 Apr 1998 19:54:28 -0400 (EDT) On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, George Grella wrote: > It is the "music lovers" whose > dollars lead to the "top 40" programming of classical organizations like > the New York Phil [their new season schedule is just appalling, > seemingly dictated by the marketing department], while musicians gnash > their teeth in frustration over not getting anything that is risky. While I've known plenty of adventurous-minded, conservatory-trained musicians and thus wouldn't want to endorse Peter's generalization, I don't buy this general take either. (It may be true of the New York Phil; I have no way of knowing what its members would like to be playing.) A local chamber orchestra consisting largely of music students has constant conflicts with its director when he wants to play music composed since 1900. Some attitudes I've encountered among schooled musicians include: Free improvisation is dubious because it's open to fakery. All free jazz is fraudulant because you just play random notes. A considerable amount of technique is required to play good music (used to dismiss Arto Lindsay). A considerable knowledge of theory is required to be a real musician (used to dismiss Bootsy Collins). Three of these claims were made by people who attributed their views to their schooling. Of course, the director of the local chamber orchestra mentioned above is also a schooled musician. The point isn't that schooled musicians are in general narrow in their appreciation of music, but only that some are. I doubt that those with attitudes like the ones I've cited are the rule, but I also doubt that they're as much an aberration as George suggests. I also think Peter has a point, although I don't think schooling has much to do with it. Many musicians do overrate technique's importance, to the point of admiring other musicians for their speed rather than their music. But I've encountered this attitude among only non-conservatory-trained musicians (like myself). This might indeed be one reason why someone thinks Marsalis is a genius. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Steve Reich boxset Date: 09 Apr 1998 20:01:07 -0400 (EDT) On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Joseph S. Zitt wrote: > I haven't seen a performance of that piece, but I saw Pat Metheny perform > Electric Counterpoint and found the live performance kinda pointless. I > could see doing a version with all the parts live, or listening to the > all-recorded record. However, there didn't seem to be much of a reason > that that one part which was done live was singled out from all the > others, and the live performance struck me as a poor compromise with the > music (though it was well played). I saw this piece performed by a guitarist other than Pat Metheny (I forget his name) in 1990 or 1991. The principle interest of the live performance seemed to be the danger of the live part getting out-of-sync with the tapes. I can imagine that this would be less evident in a well played performance than in the painful but, in retrospect, amusing trainwreck I witnessed. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: wynton marsalis Date: 09 Apr 1998 20:09:03 -0400 (EDT) On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Joseph S. Zitt wrote: > The problem with him is not what he plays so much as what he says. He > seems to have decided that the stuff he plays (tonal, > harmonically-structured jazz, hewing closely to its traditions as > established before, say, 1965) is the ultimate form of music, and that > everything that has followed is worthless. He has repeatedly derided rock, > funk, and free playing. But he also has some interesting things to say about the importance of technique over race mythologizing notions of "soul" and the focus of contemporary pop on adolescent emotional and intellectual states as symptomatic of a cultural sickness. I actually like what the man has to say, even though I frequently disagree with him. It's just unfortunate that he's the only jazz musician the mainstream press will talk to. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: wynton marsalis Date: 09 Apr 1998 20:18:09 -0400 (EDT) On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Julian wrote: > So, those > who were talking about Wynton a while ago, could you explain to me what it > was that you disliked about him? My major problem with him is that much of his work that I've heard seems rhythmically stiff. (I'm thinking mostly of _Black Codes from the Underground_ and _Marsalis Standard Time Vol. 1_ here.) He subdivides the beat all over the place, but it's so precise-sounding, I feel like I can hear him counting. In other words, it doesn't swing. More recent recordings I've heard by him didn't strike me this way, so he may have gotten over it. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Zorn's sense of humor Date: 09 Apr 1998 20:27:28 -0400 (EDT) On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Artur Nowak wrote: > (BTW: does ZORN has sense of humor? Anybody > knows?) I would be horrified to discover that titles like "Purgatory of Fiery Vulvas" are not intended to be humorous. Not to mention "Gob of Spit". Actually, I think _Torture Garden_ and the first two Painkiller records are, among other things, hysterically funny pretty much all the way through. Most of Zorn's records seem to me to have a good dose of humor. Check out also the track on _Locus Solus_ (I forget the title) that breaks down when Zorn can't contain his laughter at Christian Marclay's choice of record. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sfunk@pop.adn.com (Stephen Funk) Subject: Re: wynton marsalis Date: 09 Apr 1998 16:30:09 -1000 Sorry Christopher... I sent this to you instead of the list... >>My major problem with him is that much of his work that I've heard seems >>rhythmically stiff. (I'm thinking mostly of _Black Codes from the >>Underground_ and _Marsalis Standard Time Vol. 1_ here.) He subdivides the >>beat all over the place, but it's so precise-sounding, I feel like I can >>hear him counting. In other words, it doesn't swing. >> >>More recent recordings I've heard by him didn't strike me this way, so he >>may have gotten over it. >> > While I'm not really into Marsalis or the "Marsalis controversy", I did pick up "Blood on the Fields" and it swings often and is an admirable and enjoyable piece of work... Just my 2 cents. - Steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Music School vs. Music Lover Date: 10 Apr 1998 10:48:20 +1000 Gee, we got some pretty long posts for this topic. Thanks for all the input. I think I can make a bit of sense of all this... I was classically trained, then moved to jazz, but all the while I was listening to music that I would say is doing new or interesting stuff or at least was at the time eg Zorn, Bungle, Ruins, Primus. It's all the listening and learning from music like this that gives me my appreciation for whatever music I like, add the training and you get a better understanding of the music. So my friend who likes Wynton Marsalis, he was also classically trained, but he listened mainly to classical and straight jazz. So I think that basically explains the initial example, obviously you can't make broad generalisations, but hey, that's music for you. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: wynton marsalis Date: 09 Apr 1998 17:57:50 -0800 Ken Waxman writes: > I think what Chris was trying to address is the concept among SOME > trained msuicians that only they can understand exactly what's happening > in certain musics. The sort of falacy that you really aren't appreciating > Jim Hall or Ed Bickert or whomever because you don't realize that he just > snuck a quote in from "Hothouse" in the middle of bar 23 of "God Bless the > Child" (just made that up for a bad, quick example). > > The other fallacy when it comes to some sort of music, including > the creative, improvised stuff we like, is that only critics and "fans" > can't appreciate it, "true" musicians have the training to know what's > going on. > > This is particularly funny when you recall that the main people who put > down both Monk and the early avant garde were musicians of the older > school -Roy Eldridge, Kenny Dorham, Andre Previn, Sonny Stitt, Buddy > DeFranco etc. My supposition was because they how the instrument SHOULD > sound when they heard Ayler or Monk or whomever not making those sounds, > they felt they couldn't properly be playing music. I agree with all of this, which is well put. Hell don't forget that Louis Armstrong called be-bop "Chinese Music" when he first heard it, and not because he was a world beat afficionado. But I'm not going to stress more or less faith in any type of listener, vis-a-vis acceptance of expression over technique. People with musical training can have ears of cloth and souls of lead, as can people with no training whatsoever. I'm against snobbery, and the snobbery of saying non-trained music lovers have more sensitivity as listeners is no better than the snobbery that's of the "I know more than you kind." Oscar Peterson is someone who comes to my mind, a tremendous piano player who says nothing of musical value to me, as a trained musician. But he does say things of value to other musicians, and non-musicians, just as he also does nothing for non-musicians. Go back to Wynton, who's got training out his own ass; he can't stand the music of Lester Bowie or Cecil Taylor. They both have technique like you wouldn't believe, so what's the problem there? It's wrong to say this or that group likes this or that kind of music. And again, I do not have anything to say critically about any group of listeners, I'm just sticking up for one that got knocked down. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Music Scores Date: 09 Apr 1998 18:02:10 -0800 Holy splicing block, Batman, I forgot to mention an all-time great film score; "Blade Runner" by Vangelis. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FUNKADELlC <FUNKADELlC@aol.com> Subject: plicky plicky plock Date: 09 Apr 1998 21:25:50 EDT okay okay okay.... someone gimme the lowdown on Henry Cow... should i shell out my money for this stuff? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "allen j huotari" <zmasada@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: Re[3]: Re[2]: Steve Reich boxset Date: 09 Apr 1998 19:58:38 +0100 the clarinet piece in question is "New York Counterpoint" released on the cd NEW YORK COUNTERPOINT by Richard Stoltzman (cat no RCA Red Seal 5944-2-RC) ajh -----Original Message----- > >On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, George Grella wrote: > >> It is "Vermont Counterpoint," but it's for a flute soloist [who has >> previously overdubbed parts on tape]. It has been recorded on ECM, but >> I don't think the CD currently is in print - I've actually been looking >> for it for a few years now, ever since a friend performed the piece in >> recital. > >I'm not sure what the name was, but I definitely saw a Reich piece performed by >8 clarinets and 3 bass clarinets. I'd never really been into his stuff before, >but live it was definitely very cool. > >PeterR > >- > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: re: the residents Date: 09 Apr 1998 20:14:53 PDT Hello, Residents Nation: I have never heard the Residents. Some day I will remedy this. But I HAVE heard of them, and I've heard they are from Shreveport, La. I'm from there (I'm there right now, which is too damn bad.) Is this rumor true, and have they ever revealed their identities? Scott > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: plicky plicky plock Date: 09 Apr 1998 23:23:08 -0400 FUNKADELlC wrote: > > okay okay okay.... someone gimme the lowdown on Henry Cow... should i shell > out my money for this stuff? Grab the first album (the one with Nirvana for Mice) immediately! Then go for the "Concerts" album. I find that I admire the others more than I actually listen to them. -- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque <Dgasque@aol.com> Subject: Bible Launcher Date: 10 Apr 1998 00:10:19 EDT Just got this a couple of days ago, and i'll have to say that it lives up to its "infamy" as I had hoped. Maybe not as musically intense as I thought it would be (I was thinking on the lines of, say, Borbetamagus...), but the mere thought of impassioned fire and brimstone sermons mixed with porn film soundtracks does have a way of being intense in its own diabolical way...I should have known what was coming with a CD booklet that sports a page with pics of Pope JPII and Traci Lords side by side. Exactly why was this CD pulled by Tzadik? =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Steve Reich boxset Date: 10 Apr 1998 00:32:49 -0400 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > Um, isn't it safe to say that, a > priori, ANY piece called 'Stonehenge' is going to be awful? Surely you jest, my friend. "And you, my love / Won't you take my hand / We'll go back in time / To that mystic land / Where dew drops cry / And the cats meow / I will take you there / I will show you how..." And where are they now, the little people of Stonehenge? Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Tim Berne & David Sanborn Date: 10 Apr 1998 00:50:09 -0400 Caleb Deupree wrote: > This morning on my way to work I listened to Berne's album Diminutive > Mysteries, his tribute to Julius Hemphill, which includes David > Sanborn as a sideman. This seems like an uncharacteristic pairing, > and I was wondering if anyone had information on how this came to > pass, whether they played live or toured together, etc. Everyone's pretty much explained all the ins and outs of this, so I'd just add that I don't believe Berne and Sanborn ever toured this material or even performed it here in town. The one tape of live Diminutive Mysteries material I've got features Oliver Lake instead of Sanborn... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gauthier Michelle A <7mag2@qlink.queensu.ca> Subject: re: the residents Date: 10 Apr 1998 01:04:49 -0400 (EDT) The Residents have never officially revealed their identities-- yet there is profoud speculation/rumors as to who they actually are... I know many people MUST know who they in fact are, such as other musicians... I've been told that Fred Frith has played with them before. I have always heard that they hailed from San Francisco-- or at least if they are from La, they didn't remain there too long. I heard that they acquired their name like this: They showed up at a club that they were not even booked to perform at, got up on the stage and just began playing "music"... people were asking their band name, astonished by the music... their only claim was that they were the "residents" of this club at that particular time... the name supposedly stuck after that.... In any event, this band is unbelievable. I encourage anyone to grab Eskimo and Hell... actually, grab any album you can! It's all amazing. michelle On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Scott Handley wrote: > > Hello, Residents Nation: > > I have never heard the Residents. Some day I will remedy this. But I > HAVE heard of them, and I've heard they are from Shreveport, La. I'm > from there (I'm there right now, which is too damn bad.) Is this rumor > true, and have they ever revealed their identities? > > Scott > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Julien Quint <Julien.Quint@xrce.xerox.com> Subject: OST Date: 10 Apr 1998 09:18:34 +0200 On the original soundtracks subject: I found recently the original soundtrack for the movie "The Blue Kite" by none other than Otomo Yoshihide. The music is very beautiful, a main theme repeated different times with variations (even played with toy instruments...) as well as some dialogue excerpts from the movie, some them very moving even if you can't understand Chinese (and I can't.) Among the musicians, besides Otomo, are two guys from Altered States / Ground Zero, I don't know about the other ones. It's on Milan Asia and also has short but sweet liner notes by Otomo. This was his first film score, and it's a nice piece of work. I know that he composed other film music since (for at least seven other movies according to the Internet Movie Database), does anyone know about other film scores available? * Julien Julien Quint Member of the MLTT Resarch Staff Xerox Research Centre Europe julien.quint@xrce.xerox.com 6, chemin de Maupertuis phone: +33 (0)4 76 61 50 38 38240 Meylan, France fax: +33 (0)4 76 61 50 99 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jkan@javanet.com Subject: re: the residents Date: 10 Apr 1998 02:45:42 -0400 At 01:04 AM 4/10/98 -0400, Gauthier Michelle A wrote: > >I heard that they acquired their name like this: >They showed up at a club that they were not even booked to perform at, got >up on the stage and just began playing "music"... people were asking their >band name, astonished by the music... their only claim was that they were >the "residents" of this club at that particular time... the name >supposedly stuck after that.... The version I know is: a record company returned a demo tape to them, but was apparently unable to decipher their name from the cryptic (pun intended) packaging, and so addressed the package to "residents." The liner notes on my copy of _Meet the Residents_ (Ralph Records garage sale, $2 according to the sticker still on the cover...) mention their having been in college in Louisiana, although the relationship between that text and reality might be, umm, complex.... Anyone go to their 25th Anniversary shows in S.F. last year? The Cube-E show that I saw would be on my top n list -- if I had one, that is. Not that I'm saying I have such a thing, of course.... Jim //========================================================================= // Jim Kan (jkan@javanet.com) // // However far you may travel in this world, you will still occupy // the same volume of space. // Traditional Ur-Bororo saying //========================================================================= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Julien Quint <Julien.Quint@xrce.xerox.com> Subject: Tom Cora R.I.P. Date: 10 Apr 1998 10:32:11 +0200 Sad news: it seems that Tom Cora died of cancer this week. He had been sick for some time now, but never gave up and tried to play music as long as he could. Just two weeks ago he was on stage in Lyon playing with Roof, putting all his energy in his music. Tom Cora was a great musician and will sorely be missed. * Julien - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Julien Quint <Julien.Quint@xrce.xerox.com> Subject: Residents name / identity Date: 10 Apr 1998 11:38:49 +0200 Gauthier Michelle A <7mag2@qlink.queensu.ca> said: > The Residents have never officially revealed their identities-- yet > there is profoud speculation/rumors as to who they actually are... I > know many people MUST know who they in fact are, such as other > musicians... I've been told that Fred Frith has played with them > before. I have always heard that they hailed from San Francisco-- or > at least if they are from La, they didn't remain there too long. I > heard that they acquired their name like this: They showed up at a > club that they were not even booked to perform at, got up on the stage > and just began playing "music"... people were asking their band name, > astonished by the music... their only claim was that they were the > "residents" of this club at that particular time... the name > supposedly stuck after that.... From what I know (most of this information I got from the excellent RzWeb website: http://www.residents.com) the Residents were originally from Louisiana and decided to move to SF. They sent tapes to record company with a return address but no name whatsoever, so when the tapes were sent back they were sent to the "residents" of said address. The name is supposed to come from here. Fred Frith did play with the Residents (on the Commercial Album, and maybe on some other occasions) which led people to think he was one of the Residents (the same kind of reasoning led people to think that Frank Zappa, Snakefinger, the Beatles, Laurie Anderson, and so on were also in the Residents.) My current favorite answer to "Who are the Residents?" is from Frank Pahl* who played with Brian Poole of Renaldo and the Loaf -- also rumored to be in the Residents, of course -- on different occasions. He said that Brian Poole told him that having met the Residents on different occasions, he could reveal the shocking truth: tha group was really composed of Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis. (I guess that would make swiss cheese out of the Louisiana origin theory.) Any other funny/serious opinions on who the Residents really are? * Julien * Shameless plug: Frank Pahl's latest CD "Remove the Cork" is out now on the Demosaurus label, featuring guests Eugene Chadbourne, Brian Poole, Denis Palmer and many others... e-mail david.fenech@st.com for info. Sorry for the spamming. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re: plicky plicky plock Date: 10 Apr 1998 08:01:39 -0500 FUNKADELlC wrote: > > okay okay okay.... someone gimme the lowdown on Henry Cow... should i shell > out my money for this stuff? Well, if a band that mixes equal parts of Chamber music, progressive rock, and free-improv sounds good to you, then you should definitely check them out. Rich - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris Barrett" <cbarrett@neaq.org> Subject: Re: wynton marsalis Date: 10 Apr 1998 09:17:32 -0400 >Yes, you did interpret me wrong. What I saw and responded to was some >musical snobbery that I have seen too often and can't stand; this >fallacy that training and chops = no heart and no ears. Garbage. Cool. I was hoping that was the case..... -Chris - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: philz <zampino@panix.com> Subject: Re: plicky plicky plock Date: 10 Apr 1998 10:31:11 -0400 >FUNKADELlC wrote: >> >> okay okay okay.... someone gimme the lowdown on Henry Cow... should i shell >> out my money for this stuff? > >Grab the first album (the one with Nirvana for Mice) immediately! Then >go for the "Concerts" album. Personally I find I listen to the albums after Henry Cow fused with Slapp Happy, such as _Desperate Straights_ and _In Praise of Learning,_ more than I do the instrumental records, though they're all, imho, excellent releases. Also excellent are the News from Babel releases (reissued on ReR on 1 cd) and, of course, the Art Bears releases, particularly _Hopes and Fears_. philz - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: plicky plicky plock Date: 10 Apr 1998 10:32:12 -0400 >>>>> "FUNKADELlC" == FUNKADELlC <FUNKADELlC@aol.com> writes: FUNKADELlC> okay okay okay.... someone gimme the lowdown on Henry FUNKADELlC> Cow... should i shell out my money for this stuff? First album, Legend (1968), all instrumental and very well done. This got me hooked the first time I heard it, and opened up a whole new world for me of the Recommended (now ReR) label, Chris Cutler, Fred Frith, et al., with all the wonderful music they led me to (probably even to Zorn when Frith went to New York). They joined forces with a poppish group, Slapp Happy, and put out a couple of records with both names. First introduction of Dagmar Krause on vocals. I personally found that her voice took some getting used to, and when I listen to these old Cow records I still find it a little grating, although I've come to like some of her more recent work (e.g., Domestic Stories). Then there's the concert recordings, much more improv than the studio records (and the first not released by Virgin, as I remember). Some of the studio cuts redone as well. Their last album, Western Culture (1978), was their first on Recommended, and back to all instrumental. I also like this album a lot. One could also mention Art Bears, whose first album (featuring Frith, Cutler, and Dagmar) was intended to be a Henry Cow album, but not all members of the group agreed to the material. Still available on ReR. I have all of these on vinyl, so I don't listen to them all that much. The Virgin releases have been reissued on CD, but the Wayside catalog said that they had been radically and unsympathetically remixed, so perhaps some kind of caveat is in order (they aren't listed in the current Wayside). They have one song on the Rhino history of progressive rock, from the poppy Dagmar album, which is not terribly representative of their best work. IMO, their instrumental work is their most interesting (but then I'm not much on songs anyway). Fairly complex and clever arrangements and instrumentals, odd time signatures, etc.. Legend is somewhat lighter in tone than Western Culture, which came after ten grueling years of touring and politicizing, and which sounds more labored (but also more complex). They probably sound a little dated now, and they are definitely in the progressive rock vein. You can check out the Gibralter Encyclopedia of Progressive Rock (http://www.ari.net/prog/gepr/) for more info, and Fred Frith also has an interesting site at http://www.fredfrith.com. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: philz <zampino@panix.com> Subject: Re: Tom Cora R.I.P. Date: 10 Apr 1998 10:49:45 -0400 >Sad news: it seems that Tom Cora died of cancer this week. He had been sick >for some time now, but never gave up and tried to play music as long as he >could. Just two weeks ago he was on stage in Lyon playing with Roof, putting >all his energy in his music. > >Tom Cora was a great musician and will sorely be missed. *sigh* say it's not true... Skeleton Crew/Roof/Curlew/The Ex/John Zorn/David Moss/Eugene Chadbourne/Third Person/The Hat Shoes/Catherine Jauniaux/countless other collaborations... I'm going to miss this amazing voice, my favorite cellist ever, a monster on the instrument and an excellent conceptualist... Rip up the afterlife, Tom! philz - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: re: the residents Date: 10 Apr 1998 10:17:34 -0500 (CDT) On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Gauthier Michelle A wrote: > I heard that they acquired their name like this: > They showed up at a club that they were not even booked to perform at, got > up on the stage and just began playing "music"... people were asking their > band name, astonished by the music... their only claim was that they were > the "residents" of this club at that particular time... the name > supposedly stuck after that.... The story I heard was that they sent a demo to Warner Brothers with a return address but no band name. Warners sent it back addressed to "Residents". - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: y9d62@TTACS.TTU.EDU Subject: Re: Music School vs. Music Lover Date: 10 Apr 1998 12:20:37 -0600 (CST) I have been in school for some time studying to be a professional musician. I think the reason why many 'schooled' musicians place emphasis on technical ability is because much of what is stressed in school is technique. The goal of most musicians I know and admire, I think, is to make great music, and for many musicians, classical music is the choice of performance---I must say that it is very difficult to pull off a Rachmaninoff piano concerto if you can't play your scales, or a set of Paginini variations if you can't move your fingers quickly. I cannot make excuses for bad musicians, but I must defend musicians who practice their technique in order to reach a higher goal. I don't think Mr. Marsalis is a genius; I think technically speaking, he is a wunderkind---the knock on him, among jazz and classical players alike, that I've heard, is that he's a self-righteous ass. I wonder if a lot of criticism isn't based on persona, rather than on music. On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Christopher Hamilton wrote: > > > On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, George Grella wrote: > > > It is the "music lovers" whose > > dollars lead to the "top 40" programming of classical organizations like > > the New York Phil [their new season schedule is just appalling, > > seemingly dictated by the marketing department], while musicians gnash > > their teeth in frustration over not getting anything that is risky. > > While I've known plenty of adventurous-minded, conservatory-trained > musicians and thus wouldn't want to endorse Peter's generalization, I > don't buy this general take either. (It may be true of the New York > Phil; I have no way of knowing what its members would like to be > playing.) A local chamber orchestra consisting largely of music students > has constant conflicts with its director when he wants to play music > composed since 1900. > > Some attitudes I've encountered among schooled musicians include: > Free improvisation is dubious because it's open to fakery. All free jazz > is fraudulant because you just play random notes. A considerable amount > of technique is required to play good music (used to dismiss Arto > Lindsay). A considerable knowledge of theory is required to be a real > musician (used to dismiss Bootsy Collins). Three of these claims were > made by people who attributed their views to their schooling. > > Of course, the director of the local chamber orchestra mentioned > above is also a schooled musician. The point isn't that schooled > musicians are in general narrow in their appreciation of music, but only > that some are. I doubt that those with attitudes like the ones I've cited > are the rule, but I also doubt that they're as much an aberration as > George suggests. > > I also think Peter has a point, although I don't think schooling has > much to do with it. Many musicians do overrate technique's importance, to > the point of admiring other musicians for their speed rather than their > music. But I've encountered this attitude among only > non-conservatory-trained musicians (like myself). This might indeed be > one reason why someone thinks Marsalis is a genius. > > Chris Hamilton > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Residents name / identity Date: 10 Apr 1998 14:21:59 -0400 (EDT) The residents? What about the Brian Poole cited below? Wasn't he the lead singer of Brian Poole and the Tremeloes who had a 1960s British Invasion hit with "Here Comes My Baby"? I thought he had become a professional butcher. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net adding some useless musical trivia On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Julien Quint wrote: > Gauthier Michelle A <7mag2@qlink.queensu.ca> said: > > The Residents have never officially revealed their identities-- yet > > there is profoud speculation/rumors as to who they actually are... I > > know many people MUST know who they in fact are, such as other > > musicians... I've been told that Fred Frith has played with them > > before. I have always heard that they hailed from San Francisco-- or > > at least if they are from La, they didn't remain there too long. I > > heard that they acquired their name like this: They showed up at a > > club that they were not even booked to perform at, got up on the stage > > and just began playing "music"... people were asking their band name, > > astonished by the music... their only claim was that they were the > > "residents" of this club at that particular time... the name > > supposedly stuck after that.... > > >From what I know (most of this information I got from the excellent RzWeb > website: http://www.residents.com) the Residents were originally from > Louisiana and decided to move to SF. They sent tapes to record company with a > return address but no name whatsoever, so when the tapes were sent back they > were sent to the "residents" of said address. The name is supposed to come > from here. > > Fred Frith did play with the Residents (on the Commercial Album, and maybe on > some other occasions) which led people to think he was one of the Residents > (the same kind of reasoning led people to think that Frank Zappa, Snakefinger, > the Beatles, Laurie Anderson, and so on were also in the Residents.) My > current favorite answer to "Who are the Residents?" is from Frank Pahl* who > played with Brian Poole of Renaldo and the Loaf -- also rumored to be in the > Residents, of course -- on different occasions. He said that Brian Poole told > him that having met the Residents on different occasions, he could reveal the > shocking truth: tha group was really composed of Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis. > > (I guess that would make swiss cheese out of the Louisiana origin theory.) > > Any other funny/serious opinions on who the Residents really are? > > * > Julien > > > > > * Shameless plug: Frank Pahl's latest CD "Remove the Cork" is out now on the > Demosaurus label, featuring guests Eugene Chadbourne, Brian Poole, Denis > Palmer and many others... e-mail david.fenech@st.com for info. Sorry for the > spamming. > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Todd Bramy <tbramy@oz.net> Subject: Passover netcast from Lincoln Center Date: 10 Apr 1998 13:54:21 -0700 Everybody see this?: CYBERSEDER TO BRING OUT MUSICAL ALL-STARS Lou Reed, Laurie Anderson, and John Zorn will be featured in a Passover netcast from Lincoln Center. If all goes as planned, it could give the still-embryonic business of netcasting a shot in the arm. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . http://www.wired.com/news/news/email/other/culture/story/11605.html ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` Todd Bramy tbramy@oz.net http://www.oz.net/~tbramy ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` "I don't want to spend my life explaining myself. You either get it or you don't." Frank Zappa ```````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````` - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Schoolers .vs. Lovers Date: 10 Apr 1998 21:06:07 UT Alright, I was making a sweeping generalization in my first post which was very wrong. On further review, it seems that musical tastes run in the same percentages inside music schools as outside. I remember taking a music history course that painted Cage and Stockhausen as fools, and Reich and Glass as putterers. So, that just goes to show ya... something. In any case, I will say that musical schooling doesn't necessarily make musicians more open to obscure musicalities, although it may offer more access, and I suppose it could depend on the school too. But there were plenty of people in the orchestra trying to figure out why they should bother playing the Cage piece, when it "just sounded like everyone was playing at once..." Also, I will say I've known many instrumentalists to award interest based solely on technique. Like my one flautist friend who didn't like Jethro Tull because Ian whoosit overblows his flute, or the other who couldn't stand Mississippi Fred McDowell because he always sounded out of tune, or the recording of Cello Suites I love, because the guy's "phrasing was all wrong." In the meantime, like I said, they rave about Steve Vai and Joe Satriani, who put out amazingly sterile music, but with excellent speed and technique. I guess they're entitled to their opinions, but it seems like they're missing the point of the performance if they can't hear past that. That's what I'm saying, I guess. Sorry to piss anyone off. It *was* a bad generalization. PeterR === Peter Risser, Senior Consultant, Norrell Information Services peter_risser@cinfin.com risser@goodnews.net [Yeah, I just figured out how to do this...:)] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sfunk@pop.adn.com (Stephen Funk) Subject: Henry Cow Date: 10 Apr 1998 14:59:06 -1000 Once upon I time I bought the 3 Henry Cow ablums, "In Praise Of Learning", "Legend", and I forget the other. Had heard a lot about them, was curious. Listened a few times, never listened to them again. Didn't really do much for me. Sort of dry "art rock" or something, couldn't really appreciate their style. I do have the Slapp Happy CD, "Acnalbasac Noom", which I liked a lot and still listen to occasionally. More on the tuneful side of things. Just one man's experience. - Steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Olivier Nguyen Van Tan" <onvt@micronet.fr> Subject: Tom Cora... Date: 11 Apr 1998 02:20:20 +0200 Bad news. Sorry, guys, this message is in French but I am not in the mood of translating it... It is too sad a moment to do it. Hope you 'll get it and forget me. ******************** 18 Mars 1998, Laboratoires d'Aubervilliers (Paris). L'homme qui est assis, la, en face de nous, sur notre droite, nous est bien familier : sa grande silhouette, son petit gilet en maille, ses habits sombres mais surtout et essentiellement, ce son de violoncelle qui n'appartient qu'a lui. Pour nous, c'est le violoncelliste qui vient de New York et qui a joue avec des grands. Ce soir, il est avec son vieil ami Fred Frith... Des les premiers coups d'archets, des les premiers frottements sur le bois de l'instrument, on retrouve cet univers familier de sons, de bruits et d'emotions. Le son est vif, brutal. Il joue avec la matiere sonore, avec le corps de son instrument... L'improvisation court, revient, se fait melodique, discute avec Bach, se retourne sur soi, rugit comme du rock ! Je reve avec elle. Creant un corde cinquieme corde avec son chevalet, il fait ce fameux son (grave sur disque avec Roof) que j'appelle avec naivete : "le son qui rend fou", un sorte de cri primal du violoncelle ! Un frottement harmonique qui crisse avec des tremolos. Pour moi, c'est la voix de Tom Cora, celle que l'on reconnait entre mille. Ce soir-la, Tom est d'humeur fort joyeuse. Taquin, il interpelle le public des le debut. Des clins d'oeil s'echangent avec Fred Frith : la complicite semble grande. Il joue avec un grand sourire, on le sent serein (avec sa famille qui l'ecoute). On voit, on entend qu'il s'amuse (autant que nous). Il jouera intensivement, instinctivement jsqu'au bout en nous donnant un grand moment d'improvisation. Visiblement epuise physiquement, il ne reviendra pas rejouer au rappel. Olivier, fennec parmi les Fennecs, qui aurait aime apprendre le violoncelle Le Site Web du Fennec pour les musiques creatives http://www.fennec.digiweb.fr - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Tom Cora R.I.P. Date: 10 Apr 1998 23:00:17 -0400 (EDT) On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, philz wrote: > I'm going to miss this amazing voice, my favorite cellist ever, a monster > on the instrument and an excellent conceptualist... Agreed on all counts. I met him once, and he was a hell of a nice guy, even after a long drive in a blizzard. Damn, damn, damn. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Music School vs. Music Lover Date: 10 Apr 1998 23:04:07 -0400 (EDT) On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 y9d62@TTACS.TTU.EDU wrote: > I cannot > make excuses for bad musicians, but I must defend musicians who > practice their technique in order to reach a higher goal. Sure. It's important to have technique adequate to the music you want to make. It's just a fallacy to think that there's some one level and kind of technique required for all music. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque <Dgasque@aol.com> Subject: Re: plicky plicky plock Date: 11 Apr 1998 00:10:47 EDT In a message dated 98-04-09 21:28:24 EDT, you write: << okay okay okay.... someone gimme the lowdown on Henry Cow... should i shell out my money for this stuff? >> absolutely. =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9mi?= Bissonnette <rbisson@courrier.usherb.ca> Subject: CD and artist recommendations Date: 11 Apr 1998 01:03:12 -0400 I'd like to know if anybody here can recommend (or suggest to stay away from) the following CDs, or offer short reviews of them, etc.: Bailey/Parker/Zorn: Harras Bailey/Parker/Bennink: Topography of the Lungs Br=F6tzmann/Parker/Bendian: Sacred Scrape/Secret Response Ginger Baker: No Material X-Legged Sally: --all releases-- (which is best?) Also, from the following Fushitsusha releases: The Caution Appears, Gold Blood, Allegorical Misunderstanding and Purple Trap (btw are there any others?), which is the noisiest, which is the most accessible, which is the best or most representative of the band? And where to start with Anthony Braxton? I saw Willisau on quite a few top 20 lists and I'll probably look for it real soon, but other than that one what is his best composed material, and conversely his best free improvised material? Same questions for Evan Parker, Cecil Taylor and Eugene Chadbourne. Yeah, there are a lot of great musicians I have (and want) to get into, but with those massive discographies it's really hard to choose what direction to go in. Please reply by private e-mail if you feel things are getting a bit too repetitive (even for this list!). Thanks for the help. Bruno R=E9mi Bissonnette Ph.D. Professeur titulaire =46acult=E9 d'=C9ducation physique et sportive Universit=E9 de Sherbrooke Sherbrooke, Qu=E9bec J1K 2R1 =20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Chavez <pmchavez@earthlink.net> Subject: Stockhausen Date: 11 Apr 1998 01:21:40 -0500 I'm curious to know if anyone can recommend a good starting point for Stockhausen. I've seen the recent Ecstatic Peace release, but I'd like to know if there is something else I should check out first. Paul - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: *UN*Bargain Bins Date: 11 Apr 1998 15:54:39 +1000 (EST) On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Craig Rath wrote: > Now my question for you is: What is the most you have spent on a single > disc? I'm not talking about boxed sets, just one disc, by itself. > > Me personally is the unofficial soundtrack to Blade Runner by Vangelis for > which I paid $54.00. I look back and shake my head once in a while, but > it's still a great disc, and if I was drunk I'd probably do it again. You wuz gypped, man - unless I'm very much mistaken, this (perfectly legitimate and official) soundtrack is quite available at a regular price. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: Ken Nordine Date: 11 Apr 1998 15:58:12 +1000 (EST) On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Steve Smith wrote: > > (Any bets on whether Ken would have had the same effect on our collective > nervous system had he NOT been such a prominent voice in American TV > commercials throughout the '70s and '80s?) > He goes back even further than that - working in the '50s. Back of an LP at home (think its 'Son of Word Jazz') he thanks Fred Astaire for having him on the tv show Astaire hosted. I've read about it elsewhere: apparently Astaire improvised a dance routine while Nordine was doing his *usual* extemporisation thing! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: Mezz, a great jewish musician... Date: 11 Apr 1998 16:08:25 +1000 (EST) Something that interested me was the way Mezzrow identified so strongly with Afro-Americans. Like: angling to be in the *black* cell-block at Riker's Island(?). Which is maybe a little wierd, but definitely interesting in terms of his near-complete alientation from a WASP hegemony. Poor bastard was so self-deprecating, but. Talk aboutcha self-hatred... On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, Mike Beiderbecke wrote: > Weighing in about something that happened way before my time, > > Mr. Waxman says; > >Take anything Mezz sez with a large grain of salt (or maybe the type of > >spliff Mezrow would have preferred). Let's just say he and the truth > >were little more than distant cousins. > > In reply to Mr Knox who said in part; > >> He talks about some pretty crazy binges with Bix as well... > > To which I add, > > Too true, but the blurred memories of Mr. Mezzrow, despite their > only glancing intersection with fact, makes for some really fun reading. > Jazz, and the players, the way they were perceived, 20 years after the > facts. The chapter of definitions and sample conversations is worth the > price of admission. But a snoozing Bix being awakened for his 16 bar solo > with the Whitman Orchestra is true. > > Ah, the fabulation of history..... > > > > > > ****************************** > Just Browsing? > http://idt.net/~beider19 > ****************************** > > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Rath <fripp@ibm.net> Subject: Un-Bargain Bins Date: 11 Apr 1998 02:11:20 -0500 J.D.Knox said: >"On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Craig Rath wrote: >> Now my question for you is: What is the most you have spent on a single >> disc? I'm not talking about boxed sets, just one disc, by itself. >> >> Me personally is the unofficial soundtrack to Blade Runner by Vangelis for >> which I paid $54.00. I look back and shake my head once in a while, but >> it's still a great disc, and if I was drunk I'd probably do it again. >You wuz gypped, man - unless I'm very much mistaken, this (perfectly >legitimate and official) soundtrack is quite available at a regular price." You might think that, but you'd be wrong. Shortly after the release I bought, Vangelis finally released his "official" version of the soundtrack (I think because he realized the unofficial one was going for unheard of prices) but his version has less and much shorter versions of the best songs, most noticeably "Blade Runner Blues", which is probably one of the best things Vangelis has ever done. I think the official version is about 7 minutes long, while the unofficial version has the full 10.5 minute version. I'm not saying it wasn't still an extravagant purchase, just that the "official" release doesn't really touch what you get with the "unofficial" version. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: "Godard" by Zorn Date: 11 Apr 1998 16:13:30 +1000 (EST) Name of the compilation is "Goddard, Ca Vous Chante": on Nato. I guess that means Do You Sing? or something like that... On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, Caleb Deupree wrote: > The tribute itself is released on CD, including the Zorn piece. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: experimentation Date: 11 Apr 1998 16:32:49 +1000 (EST) On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, Perfect Sound Forever wrote: > On Wed, 8 Apr 1998 16:38:09 -0700 (PDT) "Cappy D'Angelo" said: > > > By definition, experimentation suggests that the initiator of the process > > cannot predict the end result - there is uncertainty or tentativeness. (snip) > > It depends how exact you want to get with your definition of 'experimental.' When > it's done in the scientific community, you start with a hypothesis that says 'this > will happen' or 'this won't happen'- it's something you're trying to prove or > disprove. Usually, if you don't get the results you want, you might try it again or > try another tact. There isn't a lot of guess work here- you're looking for a certain > result so you're working within determined parameters. In science, an experiment is designed to test yr hyposthesis: but the point is - if your hypothesis is disproven, that's not neccesarily a bad thing. It's (maybe) a Cagean thing, like the Buddhist axiom says: "Honour your mistake - it is a hidden intention". Y'know, like Fleming (and who was his collaborator?) discovers antibiotics or something...No, not really. But for an experiment to be valid, you have to factor in random factors, that you can't initially predict. Designing the *process*, and executing the design, become as important as the outcome. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: wynton marsalis Date: 11 Apr 1998 16:57:42 +1000 (EST) On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Ken Waxman wrote: > Oh it's W. Marsalis you're talking about. Isn't he some > classical music administrator looking for a set repretoire that can only > be played in well-appointed halls? What does he have to do with free > improvisation? Got it in one feller (and liked the way you put it, also!) Marsalis programmed jazz at the Lincoln Centre for years (still?) and turned the place into a mausoleum. Unrelated (but even more irritating): couple months back; he and his wretched orchestra are brought to Australia at huge expense to do the local arts festivals. Which is maybe fine - I know some people like his stuff - but I would very much prefer that someone a bit more deserving of our notice was toured down here. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: marsalis city limits Date: 11 Apr 1998 17:04:45 +1000 (EST) On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, George Grella wrote: > It's the "music lovers" whose dollars are supporting all the dishonest, > emotionless, trite, cliched and dull pop music [of all stripes and > styles] that deluges the world today. It is the "music lovers" whose Dunno about this - *pop* music is hardly any more possessing of these qualities than jazz, classical, rock, blah per se... I heard "Nutbush City Limits" the other day, wandering around a record store. And I swear - that is a freakin' strange piece of music - much more than anything I've ever heard by FMN, for example (that might get me in trouble, but what the hey). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: soundtracks Date: 11 Apr 1998 17:37:05 +1000 (EST) On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, Michael Sherry wrote: > With Zorn's focus on music for films, has there been much discussion here > about scores for movies? I am not talking about the movie compilations > using lots of different rock numbers but the more organic music composed > for movies yet capable of standing on its own, such as the scores by > Bernard Herrmann. And can anyone recommend great movie scores from now > or yesteryear? I heard that Psycho and oddly enough seventh Voyage of > Sinbad were particularly good. Herrmann is highly recommended: in addition to titles mentioned elsewhere, you might want to check out Taxi Driver and North by Northwest. Morriconne, also. Dead prolific, but: occasionally I'll scare up a pile of old Italian imports (vinyl!) and not all are equally great. Gui La Testa is a nice one I got recently. Heretic: Exorcist 2 is a hoot! Mancini is plenty great, also, but I don't know so much about his work. "Touch of Evil" is recommended. John Barry definitely deserves a mention. I much prefer his older stuff - I have a battered copy of "Beat Girl" that is always on household high-rotation. Goldfinger, Thunderball, Ipcress File, lots more. His work is as instantly recognisable as Lalo Schifrin's. Can't give you too many titles by this guy, but I love his "Enter The Dragon" soundtrack - its got the funk, plus Bruce Lee's vocalisations spliced in (I like to imagine Audio Sports with Yamatsuka Eye sounds like this, but its probably not as good). Something great I heard recently was the score for "Johnny got his gun" - an old movie about the original basket case, tapping out k-i-l-l-m-e-k-i-l-l-m-e with his eyelids at the nurse! Cartoon scores by Carl Stallings and Scott Bradley are around: but I would personally like for more of the MGM cartoon soundtracks to get a release - I saw a Tom and Jerry cartoon recently with v nice interjections from theremin and electric guitar. Rhino has released 2 comps of 'Crime jazz', which are fine collections of work in this genre: tho' I'm still hoping for the release of the full scores to some of those movies. Heck: there's heaps more. Stuff that Zorn covers is a good place to start. All the stuff I've listed is out on disc, but a lot of older stuff - and original recordings on vinyl - is dead hard to find: seemingly, soundtracks were once a very specialised taste, and pressed in limited runs. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: Shostakovitch soundtracks... Date: 11 Apr 1998 17:42:05 +1000 (EST) On Thu, 9 Apr 1998, George Grella wrote: > Honnegger's work for several movies. There's famous film music by > Prokofiev and Shostakovich, of course. Ry Cooder has done a lot of geat Prokofiev I know: didn't he score Eisenstein's "Ivan The Terrible"? Never heard it, but I bet its great. As for Shostakovitch: I used to have an LP on the Melodya label, with 2 or 3 scores he did for war-time Soviet films. Great and stirring: reminded me of Mossolov's "Zavod" a little bit. Can't find the damn thing, and can't remember the titles. Anyone have any info on this guy's work for the cinema? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: Otomo's soundtracks Date: 11 Apr 1998 17:48:52 +1000 (EST) On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Julien Quint wrote: > On the original soundtracks subject: I found recently the original soundtrack > for the movie "The Blue Kite" by none other than Otomo Yoshihide. The music is > very beautiful, a main theme repeated different times with variations (even > played with toy instruments...) as well as some dialogue excerpts from the Yes: a great score to a haunting and beautiful film. Parts of this soundtrack are included on Ground Zero's "Null and Void" > > It's on Milan Asia and also has short but sweet liner notes by Otomo. This was > his first film score, and it's a nice piece of work. I know that he composed > other film music since (for at least seven other movies according to the > Internet Movie Database), does anyone know about other film scores available? > Other stuff is available on the (Hong Kong) Sound Factory label, but I can't remember which particular titles... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: soundtracks Date: 11 Apr 1998 23:44:09 +1000 > Something great I heard recently was the score for "Johnny got his gun" - > an old movie about the original basket case, tapping out > k-i-l-l-m-e-k-i-l-l-m-e with his eyelids at the nurse! This would be the film used for Metallica's "One" video? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: CD and artist recommendations Date: 11 Apr 1998 10:52:13 -0400 (EDT) I'll leave the other folks to other people, but in terms of Cecil Taylor,= =20 the problem, is I haven't heard a bad record he's made (with the=20 possible exception of the Pablo duets with Mary Lou Williams, which are a= =20 bit diffuse). The decision you have to make is how "out" do you want to get with=20 Taylor. The man has been recording since 1955 and while some of his stuff= =20 at that time was considered far-out, now it just sounds like sped up=20 bebop. For my money, I'd take Taylor straight up -solo Indent and Silent Tongues (both on Arista Freedom) For Olim (Soul Note) Then solo and duo In East Berlin with Gunther Sommer (two CDs FMP) Trio: Celebrated Blazons with William Parker & Tony Oxley (FMP) Quintet: Live in Bologna with Parker, Carlos Ward, Leroy Jenkins and=20 Thurman Barker (Leo) and Dark To Themselves with Jimmy Lyons (the Johnny Hodges to his Ellington);= =20 Raphe Malik, David S. Ware and Marc Edwards (Enja)=20 Sextet: Conquisitor with Bill Dixon, Lyons, Henry Grimes, Alan Silva and=20 Andrew Cyrille (Blue Note) and The Cecil Taylor Unit with Lyons, Malik, Sirone, Ramsey Ameen and Ronald=20 Shannon Jackson Larger groups: Unit Structures (Blue Note) including Ken McIntyre, Olu Iwa (Soul Note) with Brotzmann and Frank Wright and Always A Pleasure= =20 (FMP) with Charles Gayle One early reissue of taylor's was called "The World Of Cecil Taylor" and=20 indeed it's all out there to explore. salut Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Sat, 11 Apr 1998, =3D?iso-8859-1?Q?R=3DE9mi?=3D Bissonnette wrote: > I'd like to know if anybody here can recommend (or suggest to stay away > from) the following CDs, or offer short reviews of them, etc.: >=20 > Bailey/Parker/Zorn: Harras > Bailey/Parker/Bennink: Topography of the Lungs > Br=F6tzmann/Parker/Bendian: Sacred Scrape/Secret Response > Ginger Baker: No Material > X-Legged Sally: --all releases-- (which is best?) >=20 > Also, from the following Fushitsusha releases: The Caution Appears, Gold > Blood, Allegorical Misunderstanding and Purple Trap (btw are there any > others?), which is the noisiest, which is the most accessible, which is > the best or most representative of the band? >=20 > And where to start with Anthony Braxton? I saw Willisau on quite a few t= op > 20 lists and I'll probably look for it real soon, but other than that one > what is his best composed material, and conversely his best free improvis= ed > material? >=20 > Same questions for Evan Parker, Cecil Taylor and Eugene Chadbourne. Yeah= , > there are a lot of great musicians I have (and want) to get into, but wit= h > those massive discographies it's really hard to choose what direction to = go > in. >=20 > Please reply by private e-mail if you feel things are getting a bit too > repetitive (even for this list!). Thanks for the help. >=20 > Bruno >=20 > R=E9mi Bissonnette Ph.D. > Professeur titulaire > Facult=E9 d'=C9ducation physique et sportive > Universit=E9 de Sherbrooke > Sherbrooke, Qu=E9bec > J1K 2R1 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > - >=20 >=20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Schoolers .vs. Lovers Date: 11 Apr 1998 09:15:59 -0800 Peter Risser writes: > Also, I will say I've known many instrumentalists to award interest based solely > on technique. Like my one flautist friend who didn't like Jethro Tull because > Ian whoosit overblows his flute, or the other who couldn't stand Mississippi > Fred McDowell because he always sounded out of tune, or the recording of Cello > Suites I love, because the guy's "phrasing was all wrong." In the meantime, > like I said, they rave about Steve Vai and Joe Satriani, who put out amazingly > sterile music, but with excellent speed and technique. Oooh, I couldn't resist this, because originally I'm a flutist, and I loathe Jethro Tull! Not because of his technique, but because I loathe that 'Boots with Bells' metal music, unless it's played by Spinal Tap, of course. On the other hand [or the same one], given the choice between Yo-Yo Ma's Bach Cello Suites and Rostrapovich's recording of same, I'll take Rosty, because Ma's sound and technique is too perfect for me. It's the music that matters, to all of us, I'm sure. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Mezz, a great jewish musician... Date: 11 Apr 1998 09:22:39 -0800 James Douglas Knox writes: > Something that interested me was the way Mezzrow identified so strongly > with Afro-Americans. Like: angling to be in the *black* cell-block at > Riker's Island(?). Which is maybe a little wierd, but definitely > interesting in terms of his near-complete alientation from a WASP > hegemony. If you're keeping Mezz in the context of his life, which is jazz, what WASP hegemony are you talking about? I don't know of any such thing in jazz, quite the opposite, actually [when was it ever WASP music?], especially in the pre-WWII years. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Patrick Ivan Jenkins <cz176@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: places to play in Toronto Date: 11 Apr 1998 14:29:03 -0400 (EDT) Someone a couple of issues back was looking for places to play in Toronto. I think it was for God Is My Co-Pilot. The Music Gallery has performances of new music. Zorn played there many years ago, doing one of his game pieces. The Rivoli has also hosted performances of a wide range of music and events. If you'd like, e-mail me. I can send you the local club listings. A friend of mine also toured Canada doing off beat and unusual clubs for a Jazz poetry performance. He might have some ideas. I'd be glad to help out. Yours truly, Patrick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "allen j huotari" <zmasada@email.msn.com> Subject: essential Tom Cora recordings Date: 11 Apr 1998 12:44:54 +0100 It's a grey, gloomy, rainy Saturday morning here in Southern CA...and Tom Cora is dead, alas... While the rest of the family is out shopping, my infant daughter and I are home alone and taking the opportunity to dig the late Tom Cora's remarkable performance on the video by Curlew entitled "The Hardwood" (yeah, she's too young to actually appreciate the tunes, but the tv is turned up pretty loud so she can't help but be attracted to the glorious racket) if you, fellow zorn-lister, are wondering why many of us are mourning the passing of Mr. Cora, then I urge you to investigate the above named recording so you can not only hear but see for yourself if the video is too pricey, then try the below named recordings featuring Cora: Curlew - "Bee" (cat no. Cuneiform Rune 27) (Curlew mixes the blues grit of Mississippi delta mud with the jazz grit of the downtown NYC asphalt and filters the concoction through Ornette Coleman...or something to that effect..."Bee" was recorded just prior to "The Hardwood") Nimal - "Voix De Surface" (cat no. RecRec Music ReCDec 31) (accompanied by Curlew drummer Pippin Barnett and members of Debile Menthol, L', Ensemble Reye, and Begnagrad, this quintet performs an incredibly nimble and lively mixture of rock, Eastern European folk, and jazz. Instrumentation includes guitar, bass, drums, cello, accordion, harmonica, bouzouki...) Skeleton Crew - "Learn to Talk/Country Of the Blinds" (cat no. RecRec Music ReCDec 512) (both SC lps on a single cd. On the first Cora is teamed with Fred Frith and on the second both are joined by Zeena Parkins. True to the "one man band" philosophy, SC employed all four limbs in performance. The result is a weird and wonderful hybrid of rock, improvisation, and fake folk tunes played with a "naive gusto" according to FF) I've intentionally omitted Tom Cora's improvisational recordings here, I hope someone can contribute an appropriate addendum for this aspect of his career and for more information, be sure to check out the Tom Cora discography (painstakingly compiled by Roussel and Vuilleumier) at http://www.nwu.edu/WNUR/jazz/artists/cora.tom/discog.html if any Cora fans are out there and care to embellish, elaborate, or correct the commentary above, please do so ajh - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Stockhausen Date: 11 Apr 1998 16:51:15 -0400 At 01:21 AM 4/11/98 -0500, Paul Chavez wrote: >I'm curious to know if anyone can recommend a good starting point for >Stockhausen. I've seen the recent Ecstatic Peace release, but I'd like >to know if there is something else I should check out first. I'm not familiar with the Ecstatic Peace release, but where to start with Stockhausen depends on where your interest and finances lie. Let's assume you don't want to start with any of the Stockhausen edition CDs, because of their outrageous expense (if you do, start with Hymnen or Telemusik, his two pieces for tape). That leaves a much smaller range of choice. If you like 20th century piano music, all of the piano pieces are available in three volumes. The ones up through 11 are from the 1950s, 12 and later were released (if not written) more recently. 9, 10, and 11 are the most interesting of these (haven't heard all the new ones yet). 9 experiments with effects which he learned from electronic music, echoes and delays. 10 is a sprawling affair with great glissandi and arm motion. Frederic Rzewski wore white gloves and dusted the keyboard with powder to play it. 11 is a number of fragments which are played in any order. Mantra is a piano work from the early 1970s, for two pianos and live electronics. It represented a turning point for KS, a significant place in his output. For me it is the last interesting work, everything since has been part of his opera. Kontakte exists in two versions, for tape alone, or for tape, piano, and percussion. This is an excellent work, one of the first tape and instruments pieces, with some famous effects in slowing down sounds. I've heard about a new recording with William Winant doing the percussion, is this the Ecstatic Peace release you mentioned? This would be an excellent starting point. Stimmung is unique, six vocalists all singing the harmonics of one note (they have tone generators to keep in tune), with various chants. This was a fairly late arrival for me, and a huge surprise, as it is much more delicate and subtle than most other KS works. Still available on CD, I think, and while I like and recommend it, it is completely unrepresentative of his other work. However, Stimmung did begin a series of works in which meditation played a great part, and these were culminated in a series of poems upon which KS's ensemble meditated, then performed an intuitive music based on the poems. This series was called 'from the seven days (aus den sieben tagen)' because KS fasted and meditated for a week before coming forth with the works. Although they were released as a big 7 lp set, some of the works were also released separately, and two of them are still available on Harmonia Mundi. The electronics were primitive (sometimes a player is credited with a potentiometer, which is little more than a volume control), but the music is really good for the most part. The ensemble also included the Kontarsky brothers on piano, so it wasn't all electronic. If you like Gushwachs or the Parker Electroacoustic Ensemble, these might be of interest. I'd also recommend Possible Worlds by his son Marcus, on CMP, if you like this kind of music. The only other Stockhausen works I see in most record stores are arrangements of a series of melodies he wrote for music boxes, one for each sign of the Zodiac, called Tierkreis. IMHO these were not worth the fuss, and they later were worked into his opera Michael, based on the life of the archangel, and which goes on for seven days (Wagner rested after four, and even the Old Testament God rested after six). Opera is the one genre of music which I've never enjoyed, but this whole thing seems very retro and conservative, and the best KS works have neither of these characteristics. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Schoolers .vs. Lovers Date: 11 Apr 1998 16:56:56 -0400 (EDT) Ian Anderson's flute would have been passable when I first heard it almost 30 years ago if I had known he hadn't copped the style from Rahsaan Roland Kirk. Now it's even worse, as Anderson (I suppose) continues to recycle old licks. Meanwhile RRK died a few years ago without earning 1/100th of what Jethro Tull did (or 1/1,000,000 of what he was worth) Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Sat, 11 Apr 1998, George Grella wrote: > Peter Risser writes: > > > Also, I will say I've known many instrumentalists to award interest based solely > > on technique. Like my one flautist friend who didn't like Jethro Tull because > > Ian whoosit overblows his flute, or the other who couldn't stand Mississippi > > Fred McDowell because he always sounded out of tune, or the recording of Cello > > Suites I love, because the guy's "phrasing was all wrong." In the meantime, > > like I said, they rave about Steve Vai and Joe Satriani, who put out amazingly > > sterile music, but with excellent speed and technique. > > Oooh, I couldn't resist this, because originally I'm a flutist, and I > loathe Jethro Tull! Not because of his technique, but because I loathe > that 'Boots with Bells' metal music, unless it's played by Spinal Tap, > of course. > > On the other hand [or the same one], given the choice between Yo-Yo Ma's > Bach Cello Suites and Rostrapovich's recording of same, I'll take Rosty, > because Ma's sound and technique is too perfect for me. It's the music > that matters, to all of us, I'm sure. > > gg > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Shostakovitch soundtracks... Date: 11 Apr 1998 18:09:03 -0400 At 05:42 PM 4/11/98 +1000, James Douglas Knox wrote: >As for Shostakovitch: I used to have an LP on the Melodya label, with 2 or >3 scores he did for war-time Soviet films. Great and stirring: >reminded me of Mossolov's "Zavod" a little bit. Can't find the damn thing, >and can't remember the titles. Anyone have any info on this guy's work for >the cinema? I've got a Koch International recording of DS's Suites for Film and Stage, and it opens with a 12-part Gadfly Suite, which according to the liner notes is his 'best known and certainly the most recorded' film score, although the movie never made it to the West. It is wonderful! The overture is one of those melodramatic emotional pieces, superb. The whole album is a bit wearing, also including a King Lear and Hamlet suites which are unmemorable, but Gadfly is recommended. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jesse Simon <umsimo10@cc.UManitoba.CA> Subject: Re: Stockhausen Date: 11 Apr 1998 16:17:51 At 04:51 PM 4/11/98 -0400, Caleb Deupree wrote: >The only other Stockhausen works I see in most record stores are >arrangements of a series of melodies he wrote for music boxes, one for each >sign of the Zodiac, called Tierkreis. IMHO these were not worth the fuss, >and they later were worked into his opera Michael, based on the life of the >archangel, and which goes on for seven days (Wagner rested after four, and >even the Old Testament God rested after six). Opera is the one genre of >music which I've never enjoyed, but this whole thing seems very retro and >conservative, and the best KS works have neither of these characteristics. Is Michael the same as Licht? I remember a few years ago Deutsche Grammophon had these two Stockhausen box sets in their opera section (four discs each). One was called _Samstag aus Licht_ and the other was _Donnerstag aus Licht_. I always interpreted this to be a seven part opera called Licht of which only two parts were available / written (the ones corresponding to Sunday and Thursday). I can't imagine any human being creating two seven day operatic extravaganzas (even one seems a little far fetched), so I'm interested to know if there is any connection The albums, by the way, were deleted from the catalogue and there is no evidence that they ever existed. cheers, jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: CD and artist recommendations Date: 11 Apr 1998 16:47:44 -0700 On Sat, 11 Apr 1998 01:03:12 -0400 =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9mi?= Bissonnette wrote: > > I'd like to know if anybody here can recommend (or suggest to stay away > from) the following CDs, or offer short reviews of them, etc.: > > Bailey/Parker/Zorn: Harras > Bailey/Parker/Bennink: Topography of the Lungs ^^^^^^^^^^^ On CD, really? Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Terence Sin" <zippy@myna.com> Subject: Quotes Date: 11 Apr 1998 13:18:27 +0500 A friend recently forwarded me some quotes of composers denigrating one another, I've put it up at http://www.myna.com/~zippy/composer.html. Here are some examples: "He'd be better off shoveling snow." --Richard Strauss on Arnold Schoenberg. "Madam, you have between your legs an instrument capable of giving pleasure to thousands and all you can do is scratch it." --Sir Thomas Beecham to a lady cellist. "I liked the opera very much. Everything but the music." --Benjamin Britten on Stravinsky's The Rakes's Progress - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@uvic.ca> Subject: Re: Shostakovitch soundtracks... Date: 11 Apr 1998 19:02:49 -0700 Here's a few that are mentioned in Roy Pendergasts's "Film Music": D.S.: Alone The New Babylon S.Prokofiev: Alexander Nevsky Ivan the Terrible Lieutenant Kije Romeo and Juliet The Love for Three Oranges Prokofiev worked very closely with Eisenstein - sometimes the film was even edited to the music. As far as I know, Prokofiev refused to compose any more film music after Eisenstein's death. A.N. is a great film, and widely available. Prokofiev re-arranged the score for a larger orchestra for live performance, which is what you hear on most recordings. The reason he used a smaller group originally had to do with technical difficulties in recording (they could't fit a bigger group in the room!) -cappyd - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen drury <stevedrury@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: stockhausen Date: 12 Apr 1998 00:48:08 -0400 At 08:52 AM 4/11/98 -0600, you wrote: >I'm curious to know if anyone can recommend a good starting point for >Stockhausen. I've seen the recent Ecstatic Peace release, but I'd like >to know if there is something else I should check out first. Unfortunately, most of Stockhausen's music is not readily available on CD. A lot of the old recordings are now property of Karlheinz himself, and his reissues, while gorgeously done, are expensive -- and you have to buy them from the man himself, unless you go to a certain clothing/CD store in Koln which carries them. The following are available commercially: Kontakte -- maybe the best electronic music ever created, with optional piano and percussion -- and (on the same CD) Refrain -- for piano, vibes, celesta. Gruppen for 3 orchestras. Claudio Abbado's import recording is sometimes available at Tower. I heard this live 4 years ago at Tanglewood and will still remember it the day I die. Hymnen -- electronic/collage. Good luck finding this one! Klavierstuck I thru XI. Bernard Wambach's recordings of these are highly recommended; or you can wait (plug, plug) for my performance of IX on Avant. -- steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: stockhausen Date: 12 Apr 1998 14:50:57 +1000 > Unfortunately, most of Stockhausen's music is not readily available on CD. > A lot of the old recordings are now property of Karlheinz himself, and his > reissues, while gorgeously done, are expensive -- and you have to buy them > from the man himself, unless you go to a certain clothing/CD store in Koln > which carries them. The following are available commercially: Surely there's a lot of second hand lps floating around though... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: Mezz, a great jewish musician... Date: 12 Apr 1998 14:08:50 +1000 (EST) On Sat, 11 Apr 1998, George Grella wrote: > James Douglas Knox writes: > > > Something that interested me was the way Mezzrow identified so strongly > > with Afro-Americans. Like: angling to be in the *black* cell-block at > > Riker's Island(?). Which is maybe a little wierd, but definitely > > interesting in terms of his near-complete alientation from a WASP > > hegemony. > > If you're keeping Mezz in the context of his life, which is jazz, what > WASP hegemony are you talking about? I don't know of any such thing in > jazz, quite the opposite, actually [when was it ever WASP music?], > especially in the pre-WWII years. Have you actually read his book? If so, you'd "know" that his initial attraction to jazz was that it was an expression of Afro-american culture; and as such, a negation of the Amerikkka's dominant WASP culture... Like: is that clear enough for you, dopey? Mezzrow may have devoted much of his life to music, but this choice and the specific choice of the kind of music he played was informed by a social context: the experience of a white, jewish, middle-class male in a society that still had (and has?) a large measure of tacit (and maybe more?) racism towards such a person... Do I need to make this any clearer for you? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: Concrete jazz (2) (Was: Varese) Date: 12 Apr 1998 15:07:15 +1000 (EST) On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, Allen Gittelson wrote: > If you are interested further in written material about him, I suggest > you visit http://www.mala.bc.ca/~mcneil/varese.htm or your local library > or book store. There are quite a few interesting reads to be had. If > you read all that is written, you of course are less likely to take the > "quotes" out of context. I seem to recall that Henry Miller devoted a chapter of "The Air-Conditioned Nightmare" to Varese. Was it here (I can't remember) that I read about Charlie Parker's idolisation of Varese? After Parker died, his widow sought out Varese, and told him the story: he and Parker both lived in the East Village, and Varese was prone to taking long strolls about the streets. And apparently Parker made a habit of following at a distance, too shy to actually speak to his hero. BTW: found a copy of Mimoraglu's "Sing Me A Song Of Songmy" in a local used- record store: put a hold on it until the government (yes: they've finally agreed to fund another year of my "education") springs with my Austudy backpay - should be this week. No sign of 'The Tomb of Edgar Allan Poe', but many reworkings of studio jazz sessions. Will post details after I pick it up (hopefully this week - fingers crossed!)... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jesse Simon <umsimo10@cc.UManitoba.CA> Subject: Re: stockhausen Date: 12 Apr 1998 02:07:51 At 02:50 PM 4/12/98 +1000, Julian wrote: >Surely there's a lot of second hand lps floating around though... You'd think. But unfortunately the monetary value of Stockhausen records is surprizingly well known. The few that I've seen (mostly on Deutsche Grammophon) have gone for $30 and up. Everything about Stockhausen is prohibitively expensive. jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: Re: Blade Runner was (*UN*Bargain Bins) Date: 12 Apr 1998 08:56:59 -0400 On Tue, 7 Apr 1998, Craig Rath wrote: >Me personally is the unofficial soundtrack to Blade Runner by Vangelis for >which I paid $54.00. I look back and shake my head once in a while, but >it's still a great disc, and if I was drunk I'd probably do it again. James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> replied: >>You wuz gypped, man - unless I'm very much mistaken, this (perfectly >>legitimate and official) soundtrack is quite available at a regular price. Craig Rath <fripp@ibm.net> again: >>>You might think that, but you'd be wrong. Shortly after the release I >>>bought, Vangelis finally released his "official" version of the soundtrack >>>(I think because he realized the unofficial one was going for unheard of >>>prices) but his version has less and much shorter versions of the best >>>songs, most noticeably "Blade Runner Blues", which is probably one of the >>>best things Vangelis has ever done. I think the official version is about >>>7 minutes long, while the unofficial version has the full 10.5 minute >>>version. I'm not saying it wasn't still an extravagant purchase, just that >>>the "official" release doesn't really touch what you get with the >>>"unofficial" version. Which release do you have? There were three "unofficial" releases on CD [all limited, one is a 2CD (very limited) which is the music for the entire Director's Cut], none of which were licenced for public sale. The two single discs are a bit different ... each has a track (or two?) that the other doesn't have, but both have nearly all the "songs" in the film. Both also have different artwork and photos. The first came out on LP in 1982, and on CD in 1993. It's on Off World Music and it goes for _a lot_ more than $54!! I'd say you were lucky. The second is on Gongo Music and came out in 1995. It either _is_ a Romanian bootleg (all the text is in Romanian) or someone _meant_ it look this way. I paid $30 for my copy on Gongo, and that was right when it came out. The official version (1994 WB) does have shorter versions of some of the pieces, and doesn't have all the music in the film. As a "bonus" though, it's got some tracks that weren't in the film at all which Vangelis added just for this release. There is also an "archival" (ridiculously) limited CD release entitled "Memoires 5" (1997) that is a supplement to Vangelis' official release. The music on it (various "themes" that were cut from the official release) is not found anywhere else. Oh yeah ... there is yet another version on CD (forgettable, IMO) which has (the major) pieces performed by an orchestra (forget which). How could someone even think of trying to interpret Vangelis' electronic pieces with a live orchestra? Big mistake if you ask me. Definitely agree about "Blade Runner Blues" being one of Vangelis' best pieces ... -Patrick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Rath <fripp@ibm.net> Subject: Re: Blade Runner was (*UN*Bargain Bins) Date: 12 Apr 1998 09:24:29 -0500 At 08:56 AM 4/12/98 -0400, Patrick Carey wrote: > >Which release do you have? The "Off World Music" version on CD from '93. >one is a 2CD (very limited) which is the music for the entire >Director's Cut], none of which were licenced for public sale. Never even heard of this one. Sounds rather interesting. I assume someone probably recorded the music tracks from the laserdisc version of the movie or something? >The second is on Gongo Music and came out in 1995. >It either _is_ a Romanian bootleg (all the text is in Romanian) or someone >_meant_ it look this way. I paid $30 for my copy on Gongo, and that was >right when it came out. > I'll have to keep my eyes open for it. >The official version (1994 WB) does have shorter versions of some of the >pieces, and doesn't have all the music in the film. As a "bonus" though, >it's got some tracks that weren't in the film at all which Vangelis added >just for this release. > I almost bought this when it came out as well, and now wish I had since it's not real easy to find. > >Oh yeah ... there is yet another version on CD (forgettable, IMO) which >has (the major) pieces performed by an orchestra (forget which). The New American Orchestra. >How could >someone even think of trying to interpret Vangelis' electronic pieces >with a live orchestra? Big mistake if you ask me. > If I remember correctly, what happened here was that Vangelis actually released a version of the soundtrack on vinyl shortly after the movie came out, but it was recalled for some legal or artistic reasons (one story is that he was pissed at Ridley Scott for using other music in the final film, which supposedly violated the contract). If you notice on the original version of the movie it says "Original Soundtrack by Vangelis available" during the credits. When the deal fell through, the orchestral version was released in an attempt to appease the pissed off fans, which probably just pissed them off even more. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Concrete jazz (2) (Was: Varese) Date: 12 Apr 1998 12:46:36 -0400 (EDT) On Sun, 12 Apr 1998, James Douglas Knox wrote: > . Was it here (I can't remember) that > I read about Charlie Parker's idolisation of Varese? After Parker died, > his widow sought out Varese, and told him the story: he and Parker both > lived in the East Village, and Varese was prone to taking long strolls > about the streets. And apparently Parker made a habit of following at a > distance, too shy to actually speak to his hero. > > I'm not too sure about that. It seems to me that Bird approached Varese with the idea of studying with him since he (Parker) had decided that he had done all he could with blues-based music and wanted to expand his compositional palate. Unfortunately it never got beyond the discussion stage. As an aside, maybe that wasn't too much of a bad thing. Gunther Schuller gave Ornette Coleman some compositional "lessons" in the early 1960s. When, after studying music and finding out that nearly every concept he had was "wrong" Coleman literally rushed to the bathroom and threw up. He didn't take any other lessons, not wanting to "ruin" what he had already figured out by himself. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tag Yr It <TagYrIt@aol.com> Subject: Re: Bladerunner Date: 12 Apr 1998 15:02:51 EDT Please......spare me the impending Vangelis thread..... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jesse Simon <umsimo10@cc.UManitoba.CA> Subject: Re: Bladerunner Date: 12 Apr 1998 14:33:53 Tag Yr It wrote: >Please......spare me the impending Vangelis thread..... So long as we don't get a _Jon and Vangelis_ thread everything should be o.k. (really. what were they thinking?) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: stockhausen Date: 12 Apr 1998 16:30:33 -0400 (EDT) On Sun, 12 Apr 1998, stephen drury wrote: > A lot of the old recordings are now property of Karlheinz himself, and his > reissues, while gorgeously done, are expensive -- and you have to buy them > from the man himself, unless you go to a certain clothing/CD store in Koln > which carries them. So how would those of us outside of Koln do this? Can anyone provide a contact address, pricing info, that sort of thing? Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john shiurba <shiurba@sfo.com> Subject: Re: stockhausen Date: 12 Apr 1998 14:09:37 -0700 Christopher Hamilton wrote: > > A lot of the old recordings are now property of Karlheinz himself, and his > > reissues, while gorgeously done, are expensive -- and you have to buy them > > from the man himself, unless you go to a certain clothing/CD store in Koln > > which carries them. > > So how would those of us outside of Koln do this? Can anyone provide a > contact address, pricing info, that sort of thing? Stockhausen-Verlag Kettenberg 15 51515 Kurten Germany the pricing starts at $28 for single CDs, some are more depending on the size of the booklet, etc. He will send you a free catalog. also check this website: http://www.jimstonebraker.com/stockhausen.html it seems to be somewhat official, with the inside scoop on recent stuff. my recommendations for where to start with Stockhausen are: -Gruppen/Carre (large scale orchestral stuff) -Kontrapunkte/Zeitmasze/Adieu (chamber works) -Gesang der Jungling/Kontakte (electronic music) -Aus Den Sieben Tagen (intuitive music) -- shiurba@sfo.com http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: CD and artist recommendations Date: 12 Apr 1998 19:12:30 -0400 R=E9mi Bissonnette wrote: > And where to start with Anthony Braxton? I saw Willisau on quite a few= top > 20 lists and I'll probably look for it real soon, but other than that o= ne > what is his best composed material, and conversely his best free improv= ised > material? I just got his first Ghost Trance Music CD, Four Compositions=20 (Quartet) 1995, and rather like it. However, I've only run across one other person who likes it (it's very... um.... schematic) and it bears little relation to anything else of his I've ever heard. --=20 ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D jzitt@humansystems.com =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D H= uman Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? =3D <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> =3D ecto \|= | |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Comma: Voices of New= Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Stockhausen Date: 12 Apr 1998 19:15:11 -0400 Paul Chavez wrote: > I'm curious to know if anyone can recommend a good starting point for > Stockhausen. I've seen the recent Ecstatic Peace release, but I'd like > to know if there is something else I should check out first. I'm a big fan of his Stimmung and Aus den Sieben Tagen. A lot of his best stuff, however, is out of print except for the releases on his own label which, at prices like $40 for a single disc, are pretty much beyond consideration. -- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel) Subject: Cliff Cultreri Date: 13 Apr 1998 01:18:24 +0200 Does anybody have ANY info on Cliff Cultreri? What he's doing now, if he recorded anything besides the Material stuff ... Kind regards, - Chris. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tag Yr It <TagYrIt@aol.com> Subject: Re: Stockhausen Date: 12 Apr 1998 19:50:15 EDT Does anyone know definitely if the DGG titles were ever issued on DGG CD's? Thanks, Dale. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Stockhausen Date: 12 Apr 1998 17:02:05 -0700 On Sun, 12 Apr 1998 19:50:15 EDT Tag Yr It wrote: > > Does anyone know definitely if the DGG titles were ever issued on DGG CD's? I don't remember seing any... In fact, the only reissue that I know is EXOTICA by Mauricio Kagel (which means that there is still some hope...). And it was not a long time ago. From what I read, Stockhausen put out different versions of most of his compositions (although I have the feeling that STUDIES I & II and GESANG DER JUNGLINGE are the same :-). Patrice. PS: Stephen Drury not commenting on the available versions on MANTRA? I personally miss the original one (with Alfons and Alois Kontarsky). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Charles Gillett" <gill0042@tc.umn.edu> Subject: Circle Maker errors Date: 12 Apr 1998 19:13:32 +0000 Someone mentioned noticing something wrong with "The Circle Maker" a while ago, but I can't remember what s/he said and I can't find the digest that message is in. The liner notes for the first disc, "Issachar," list "Bikkurim" as track 12 and "Idalah-Abal" as track 13. However, track 12 is actually "Elilah," and track 13 is actually "Meholalot." Hopefully further listening won't reveal more mistakes. I have no way of confirming the names of the tunes which haven't been done by the regular Masada quartet, of course, so we'll just have to take those on faith. Aha! The Tzadik web page has the correct titles for the tracks. I just checked. None of the other track names have been changed. I suppose I could edit the message, but this way you get to share in the discovery with me. Actually, they call track 12 "Elijah," but according to Masada 8/Het it's "Elilah." -- Charles - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com> Subject: Re: experimentation Date: 12 Apr 1998 21:08:49 -0400 At 04:32 PM 4/11/98 +1000, James Douglas Knox wrote: >In science, an experiment is designed to test yr hyposthesis: but the >point is - if your hypothesis is disproven, that's not neccesarily a bad >thing. It's (maybe) a Cagean thing, like the Buddhist axiom says: > "Honour your mistake - it is a hidden intention". >Y'know, like Fleming (and who was his collaborator?) discovers antibiotics >or something...No, not really. > >But for an experiment to be valid, you have to factor in random factors, >that you can't initially predict. Designing the *process*, and executing >the design, become as important as the outcome. Yes, we can (and have learned) a lot from our mistakes and hopefully we can learn from them. My point was just that I didn't see the connection between this terminology in the scienfitic field and how it carried over to a label for music- it seems to be pretty different. 'the first sociological laboratory is your own life'- Archie Shepp Jason Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "m. rizzi" <rizzi@netcom.com> Subject: IMPORTANT zorn-list ANNOUNCEMENT Date: 12 Apr 1998 20:27:44 -0700 (PDT) From now on, when sending messages to the zorn list only use the address zorn-list@lists.xmission.com *** Please change your email address books now. *** Our generous hosts at xmission have now dedicated an entire machine to managing their mailing lists, the zorn-list included. thanks, mike rizzi zorn-list-owner - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Quotes Date: 13 Apr 1998 00:50:31 -0400 Terence Sin wrote: > A friend recently forwarded me some quotes of composers denigrating one > another [snip] You should definitely see Slonimsky's "Lexicon of Musical Invective." The whole thing's like that. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: CD and artist recommendations Date: 13 Apr 1998 00:28:04 -0400 Ken Waxman wrote: > > I'll leave the other folks to other people, but in terms of Cecil Taylor, > the problem, is I haven't heard a bad record he's made (with the > possible exception of the Pablo duets with Mary Lou Williams, which are a > bit diffuse). My absolute favorite Cecil Taylor actually doesn't have any piano on it: it's "Chiampas", a full disc of sound poetry with percussion. The verbal snippets on "In Fluorescence" only begin to hint at its brilliance. I believe it's on Leo. -- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: stockhausen Date: 13 Apr 1998 00:37:50 -0400 stephen drury wrote: > Unfortunately, most of Stockhausen's music is not readily available on CD. > A lot of the old recordings are now property of Karlheinz himself, and his > reissues, while gorgeously done, are expensive -- and you have to buy them > from the man himself, unless you go to a certain clothing/CD store in Koln > which carries them. For what its worth, Other Music in NYC (4th and Lafayette, across from Tower) has what appears to be them in stock. Oy, are they expensive... -- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: stockhausen Date: 13 Apr 1998 01:19:44 -0400 stephen drury wrote: > A lot of the old recordings are now property of Karlheinz himself, and his > reissues, while gorgeously done, are expensive -- and you have to buy them > from the man himself, unless you go to a certain clothing/CD store in Koln > which carries them. Other Music in New York carries most of them, too. One of the three owners of the store is a huge fan who does his best to push the stuff. Buy Stephen's upcoming Avant record anyway. One more Stockhausen recording I'll recommend is one that was available on Music & Arts in 1990 -- it may or may not be in print now. The disc pairs Bartok's Sonata for Two Pianos and Percussion and Stockhausen's Kontakte for electronic sounds, piano and percussion. The Bartok appears first on the disc, so if you're going to turn it up, look there. The only name I recognize is that of the incredibly amazing percussionist Stephen Schick, while the pianists are John Simms and James Avery and the second percussionist is Thomas Davis. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris Barrett" <cbarrett@neaq.org> Subject: Re: Shostakovitch soundtracks... Date: 13 Apr 1998 08:23:52 -0400 >S.Prokofiev: > >Alexander Nevsky >Prokofiev worked very closely with Eisenstein - sometimes the film was even >edited to the music. As far as I know, Prokofiev refused to compose any more >film music after Eisenstein's death. A.N. is a great film, and widely >available. Prokofiev re-arranged the score for a larger orchestra for live >performance, which is what you hear on most recordings. The reason he used a >smaller group originally had to do with technical difficulties in recording >(they could't fit a bigger group in the room!) > I believe they remastered and did some othe work to the soundtrack to Nevsky last year or the year before. I remember renting it again to hear the newly improved audio and it sounded great (if I can remember correctly, I think the music almost overwhelmed the film -- of course, nothing could ever completely overwhelm the battle on the ice scene). I never purchased it, but I know that at the same time they re-released the soundtrack on CD (I don't remember what label though). -Chris - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris Barrett" <cbarrett@neaq.org> Subject: Re: Mezz, a great jewish musician... Date: 13 Apr 1998 08:27:19 -0400 >Like: is that clear enough for you, dopey? I think this is a little uncalled for... -Chris - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: stockhausen Date: 13 Apr 1998 08:47:37 -0400 >>>>> "Chris" == Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> writes: Chris> So how would those of us outside of Koln do this? Can Chris> anyone provide a contact address, pricing info, that sort Chris> of thing? The Electronic Music Foundation carries most of them, www.cdemusic.org. The original Mantra with the Kontarskys goes for $39; Hymnen, including a version with orchestra which has not, AFAIK, been released otherwise, on 4 cds, goes for a whopping $149 (not a typo, $149). This is not EMF ripping us off, either, as the prices are comparable to the ones on KS's home page. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Stockhausen Date: 13 Apr 1998 08:55:08 -0400 >>>>> "Jesse" == Jesse Simon <umsimo10@cc.UManitoba.CA> writes: Jesse> Is Michael the same as Licht? I remember a few years ago Jesse> Deutsche Grammophon had these two Stockhausen box sets in Jesse> their opera section (four discs each). One was called Jesse> _Samstag aus Licht_ and the other was _Donnerstag aus Jesse> Licht_. I always interpreted this to be a seven part opera Jesse> called Licht of which only two parts were available / Jesse> written (the ones corresponding to Sunday and Thursday). I Jesse> can't imagine any human being creating two seven day Jesse> operatic extravaganzas (even one seems a little far Jesse> fetched), so I'm interested to know if there is any Jesse> connection Mea culpa. Licht is indeed the name of the opera. I was thinking of Michaels Reise, an excerpt for soloists available on ECM. Jesse> The albums, by the way, were deleted from the catalogue and Jesse> there is no evidence that they ever existed. At the moment I'm separated from my vinyl, but I remember at least one CD of material from the opera released on DGG, maybe a couple scenes from Donnerstag. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: conversion in progress Date: 13 Apr 1998 09:54:45 -0400 I'm shaking my head in disbelief, so I thought I'd share the moment. One of my colleagues on the office's shared stereo is a big prog-rock fan, with nearly complete collections of Yes, David Bowie, Pink Floyd, all of which are regular visitors on the above mentioned stereo. Last week, he completed his collection of Ground Zero with the purchase of Standards, the Opera, and the remixes, and with his package came a Tzadik catalogue. He looked at it for a while, then asked me if I had any of these Radical Jewish series albums (I don't think he's Jewish, either). I brought in all the ones I had today, including Kristallnacht (which should have been there if it hadn't been a reissue), and he has played one of the Bar Kokhba CDs (not as radical as he'd hoped), and now he's playing Kristallnacht. Frankly I'm stunned. Everyone else in the office wants to string me up. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: stockhausen Date: 13 Apr 1998 10:32:18 -0400 (EDT) On Sun, 12 Apr 1998, Julian wrote: > Surely there's a lot of second hand lps floating around though... i occassionally see stockhausen vinyl or used copies of the deutsche gramophon cds, when you do see them they are usually prohibitively expensive. in fact, i've seen the deutsche gramophon version of _hymnen_ go for $120 @ other music. i once saw a sealed copy for $60 here in d.c. and i guess i should've snagged it. the cds i have which are relatively easy to find are: _mantra_ (new albion) - this is a piece for piano and electronics (ring modulator, i think). quite good and recommended as a good first-stockhausen-purchase by a friend of mine, who wrote his senior thesis on stockhausen. _kontakte_ (wergo) - this is the original recorded version for tape, piano (david tudor) and percussion. it is an electronic marvel and definitely worth picking out - forced exposure has this and _klavierstucke_ on their website. the title relates to the contact of electronic and acoustic sounds. i also have the version on ecstatic peace with william winant and it is definitely cool too, but i like the wergo version better. _aus den sieben tagen_ (harmonia mundi) - this is "intuitive" era stockhausen, employing aleatory exercises much like cage. k.s. wrote up a series of texts and then had musicians improvise based on what they read from the text-score. this recording is from 1969 and it also features stockhausen in the engineer's booth tweaking poteniometers for an electro-acoustic sound. very reminiscent of what amm were doing with cardew just a year or two prior. hope this helps, b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar Subject: THE LOUNGE LIZARDS Date: 13 Apr 1998 11:35:14 -0300 Is there anybody out there who knows the entire LOUNGE LIZARDS discography (including labels)? Any special cd to recommend? Thanks, -Hugo - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: conversion in progress Date: 13 Apr 1998 10:16:11 -0500 > he has played one of the Bar Kokhba CDs (not as radical as he'd >hoped), and now he's playing Kristallnacht. >Frankly I'm stunned. Everyone else in the office wants to string me up. >--- ...hope you have the barf bags ready when the glass-shattering sequence comes on... It's often only a matter of getting someone to sit down and actually _listen_ to something, though I've found there's more success when that person happens upon it serendipitously. This past fall, my brother-in-law, whose musical taste was firmly in the quasi-emotive-folk realm (James Taylor, CSN&Y) wandered into a record store and encountered an in-progress show by Ken Vandermark and group. He was floored and is now eagerly gobbling up all sorts of unusual music. Of course, my sister is holding this against _me_! Brian Olewnick Listening to: Bailey/Holland. When, oh when, will ECM see fit to release this on disc? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: stockhausen Date: 13 Apr 1998 08:16:43 -0700 On Mon, 13 Apr 1998 08:47:37 -0400 Caleb Deupree wrote: > > >>>>> "Chris" == Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> writes: > > Chris> So how would those of us outside of Koln do this? Can > Chris> anyone provide a contact address, pricing info, that sort > Chris> of thing? > > The Electronic Music Foundation carries most of them, > www.cdemusic.org. The original Mantra with the Kontarskys goes for > $39; Hymnen, including a version with orchestra which has not, AFAIK, ^^^ Great news!!! Which seems to indicate that many of the records on Verlag could be the exact same versions as the DGG ones. Can somebody confirm? I am specially interested in TELEMUSIK, MIKROPHONIE. > been released otherwise, on 4 cds, goes for a whopping $149 (not a > typo, $149). This is not EMF ripping us off, either, as the prices ^^^^ Wow!!! And I just saw the Steve Reich box at Tower for only $97... Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Mezz, a great jewish musician... Date: 13 Apr 1998 08:37:46 -0800 James Douglas Knox writes: > Have you actually read his book? If so, you'd "know" that his initial > attraction to jazz was that it was an expression of Afro-american > culture; and as such, a negation of the Amerikkka's dominant > WASP culture... > > Like: is that clear enough for you, dopey? Mezzrow may have devoted much > of his life to music, but this choice and the specific choice of the kind > of music he played was informed by a social context: the experience of a > white, jewish, middle-class male in a society that still had (and has?) a > large measure of tacit (and maybe more?) racism towards such a person... > > Do I need to make this any clearer for you? > Yeah, I have actually read this book, rhetoric-breath. And I know it's a lot more fun than your hind-sightful, ideological attitude about it. I "know" that his attraction to jazz had a lot to do with the music itself, not some sort of guilty, social protest, like, might come from some self-lacerating WASP, like, say, yourself? And then Mezz was a jazz musician, which he spends a lot of time as in the book. While it's clear to me that his race role, his "social context," is important to you, I just find pleasure in the actual music itself, which is my concern and, fortunately, to a great extent Mezz's as well. He played jazz, not some WASP music yearning to be free. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: stockhausen Date: 13 Apr 1998 11:39:26 -0400 >>>>> "Patrice" == Patrice L Roussel <proussel@ichips.intel.com> writes: Patrice> Great news!!! Which seems to indicate that many of the Patrice> records on Verlag could be the exact same versions as the Patrice> DGG ones. Can somebody confirm? I am specially Patrice> interested in TELEMUSIK, MIKROPHONIE. My old Mikrophonie was on CBS, not DGG, but the personnel listing at http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/2047/kscds.html makes me think these are the same recordings, not new ones. And Telemusik is a tape piece, not likely that he would have redone it. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: stockhausen Date: 13 Apr 1998 08:46:04 -0700 On Mon, 13 Apr 1998 11:39:26 -0400 Caleb Deupree wrote: > > >>>>> "Patrice" == Patrice L Roussel <proussel@ichips.intel.com> writes: > > Patrice> Great news!!! Which seems to indicate that many of the > Patrice> records on Verlag could be the exact same versions as the > Patrice> DGG ones. Can somebody confirm? I am specially > Patrice> interested in TELEMUSIK, MIKROPHONIE. > > My old Mikrophonie was on CBS, not DGG, but the personnel listing at ^^^ Mea Culpa. Wonder how this one ended up there... > http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/2047/kscds.html makes me think these > are the same recordings, not new ones. And Telemusik is a tape piece, > not likely that he would have redone it. Anybody bought STUDIES I & II? For many years, it used to be *THE* record I was dreaming to find in a bin. I never listened to it and I was wondering how does it sound? Any opinions? Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Mezz, a great jewish musician... Date: 13 Apr 1998 08:49:48 -0800 Chris Barrett wrties: > >Like: is that clear enough for you, dopey? > > I think this is a little uncalled for... > > -Chris > James is just showing us all how worldly he is. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Mezz, a great jewish musician... Date: 13 Apr 1998 08:58:47 -0800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit James Douglas Knox writes: > Have you actually read his book? If so, you'd "know" that his initial > attraction to jazz was that it was an expression of Afro-american > culture; and as such, a negation of the Amerikkka's dominant > WASP culture... > > Like: is that clear enough for you, dopey? Mezzrow may have devoted much > of his life to music, but this choice and the specific choice of the kind > of music he played was informed by a social context: the experience of a > white, jewish, middle-class male in a society that still had (and has?) a > large measure of tacit (and maybe more?) racism towards such a person... > > Do I need to make this any clearer for you? > Yeah, I have actually read this book, rhetoric-breath. And I know it's a lot more fun than your hind-sightful, ideological attitude about it. I "know" that his attraction to jazz had a lot to do with the music itself, not some sort of guilty, social protest, like, might come from some self-lacerating WASP, like, say, yourself? And then Mezz was a jazz musician, which he spends a lot of time as in the book. While it's clear to me that his race role, his "social context," is important to you, I just find pleasure in the actual music itself, which is my concern and, fortunately, to a great extent Mezz's as well. He played jazz, not some WASP music yearning to be free. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: Tom Cora R.I.P. Date: 13 Apr 1998 12:16:39 -0400 (EDT) On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Christopher Hamilton wrote: > Agreed on all counts. I met him once, and he was a hell of a nice guy, > even after a long drive in a blizzard. i saw the arcado string trio (eyving kang, mark dresser, hank roberts) this saturday @ the library of congress and mark dresser dedicated the show to tom cora. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: magnum-jihad@juno.com (Nathan M Earixson) Subject: Info wanted Date: 13 Apr 1998 11:19:33 -0500 Can anyone give me some idea of what the East Side Percussion disc on Avant is like? -nathan _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Greg Mills <gregm@leftfield.net> Subject: Zorn & Albert Collins Date: 13 Apr 1998 10:36:16 -0700 Does anyone how the thingie with Albert Collins was produced? Was it Albert going off and the band chasing him, or was there some Zorn orchestration thrown in there? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john shiurba <shiurba@sfo.com> Subject: Re: Stockhausen Date: 13 Apr 1998 12:19:18 -0700 > At the moment I'm separated from my vinyl, but I remember at least one > CD of material from the opera released on DGG, maybe a couple scenes > from Donnerstag. > both 'donnerstag aus licht' and 'samstag aus licht'(4 cds)were released in their complete form (4 cds each) on CD by DG. they were also released later, along with 'montag' (5 cds) and 'dienstag' (2 cds) by stockhausen-verlag. alot of the internal material in the operas can be performed in 'concert versions' and some recordings of these have been made-- eg 'michael's riese' from donnerstag. -- shiurba@sfo.com http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David J. Strauss" <djs2852@is.nyu.edu> Subject: Anyone want to make an offer on a copy of Stockhausen's _Sirius_? Date: 13 Apr 1998 15:45:10 -0400 (EDT) I have a copy of the 2LP _Sirius_ in great shape with all the Zodiac stuff included. On Deutshce Grammophone. CYou do not see this often.ontact me if you wish to make an offer. DS djs2852@is.nyu.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Subscribing to Avant? Date: 13 Apr 1998 14:51:20 -0500 (CDT) I recently stumbled across a copy of the British music magazine Avant, and I'm hooked. Unfortunately, from carefully perusing the zine, I don't have a clue how anyone here in the States would subscribe to it. Any clues? - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Gustafsson/Guy??? Date: 13 Apr 1998 15:47:20 -0400 Does anyone know if the new Mats Gustafsson & Barry Guy duo CD on Maya has been released yet? It's apparently called FROGGING. Thanks! -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andy Marks" <Andy.Marks@mts.com> Subject: Boston Area Music Stores Date: 13 Apr 1998 16:16:54 -0400 I'm going to Boston this week and weekend. Where are the best avant/experimental record stores? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris Barre{t" <cbarrett@neaq.org> Subject: Re: Boston Area Music Stores Date: 13 Apr 1998 16:42:17 -0400 Twisted Village is by far the best avant/experimental store, located in harvard square past Charlies (great burgers) and the Funny Farm (can't remember the street name). It's a basement place with usually a small sandwich board sign, so you could miss it if you're not careful. There are tons of other new and used stores around, but none are consistent in terms of avant/experimental stuff. Newbury Comics has two locations which usually have alot of hard to find stuff, one is on Newbury Street, in the 300's, about a block down from Tower Records (which is on the corner of Mass Ave and Newbury, #360), and the other is in Harvard Square in a complex known as The Garage. They have a lot of sales, and I can usually find a lot of Zorn, Ruins, David Shea, Laswell, Ikue Mori and other stuff, but if it falls under jazz or classical (at Newbury Comics, Zorn is under rock), you probably won't find a lot. HMV in Harvard Square isn't bad, sometimes better than Tower. There are also numerous used stores which vary from time to time. Planet Records in Kenmore Square sometimes has cool stuff, and occasionally Nuggets, also in Kenmore, does too. Mars Records on Mass Ave between Harvard and Central Squares seems to have some stuff, but most of the out stuff is a little pricey. Finally, just outside of Harvard Square, also on Mass Ave is Second Coming Records, which used to be a fantastic place to find bootlegs, both audio and video, but I haven't been there in a while and while there were some pretty crazy bootlegs of artists you'd never think of having bootlegs (the scottish band Big Country from the early eighties for example), I don't recall anything exceptional in terms of avant/experimental stuff. Basically, most of the stuff I find is either at Twisted Village or at Newbury Comics. -Chris At 4:16 PM 4/13/98, Andy Marks wrote: >I'm going to Boston this week and weekend. >Where are the best avant/experimental record stores? > >- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rusty Crump <dmcrump@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu> Subject: Re: Boston Area Music Stores Date: 13 Apr 1998 15:49:13 -0500 >I'm going to Boston this week and weekend. >Where are the best avant/experimental record stores? > >- When I was there for a glorious week in 1989, I bought way too many CDs (and a bunch of back issues of Weirdo and Yummy Fur) at Newbury Comics. It's on Newbury Street, amazingly enough. It may not be the best place for avant/experimental in Boston -- I wasn't able to do a full survey of the city's offerings -- but I recall their racks being full of artists I hadn't EVEN heard of before. Much more better than the Tower Records a few doors down. Rusty Crump Oxford, Mississippi - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sfunk@pop.adn.com (Stephen Funk) Subject: Painkiller Date: 13 Apr 1998 12:51:04 -1000 I apologize if this is old news... Just wondering what to make of the 4CD Tzadik set of Painkiller material... #1: Has it been released yet? #2: What is it like? I have never heard any of this material. Is it Naked City-ish? More on the improv end? Both? Neither? Thanks. - Steve *** *** *** Steve Funk (sfunk@pop.adn.com) Anchorage, AK USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mike Beiderbecke <beider19@idt.net> Subject: Re: Stockhausen Date: 13 Apr 1998 16:55:02 -0500 Among other things, > Jesse> Is Michael the same as Licht? I remember a few years ago > Jesse> Deutsche Grammophon had these two Stockhausen box sets in > Jesse> their opera section (four discs each). One was called > Jesse> _Samstag aus Licht_ and the other was _Donnerstag aus > Jesse> Licht_. > Jesse> The albums, by the way, were deleted from the catalogue and > Jesse> there is no evidence that they ever existed. > >Caleb T. Deupree >At the moment I'm separated from my vinyl, but I remember at least one >CD of material from the opera released on DGG, maybe a couple scenes >from Donnerstag. Well, I've got both Samstag and Donnerstag in the 4 cd boxes so they did (do?) indeed exist. I got them both for 12$ apiece, so maybe it should have been on the list of bargains. Never have seen the rest of the week. For what it's worth ****************************** Just Browsing? http://idt.net/~beider19 ****************************** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: recent goodies! Date: 13 Apr 1998 18:33:43 -0400 So what have you all picked up recently that you've really enjoyed? It's a simple question that I think should be asked now and again... For me, I was pretty pleased by Elliott Sharp's solo WESTWERK. It seemed a little too standard e# though. Not enough sounds I haven't heard from him before (which is why I would prefer SFERICS). I still can't recommend SPRING & NEAP highly enough!!!! I also picked up SWORDFISHTROMBONE by Tom Waits which is another goody with Greg Cohen (no Ribot unfortunatley). It's got that same style as Rain Dogs with some great spoken wordy kinds of tracks and other stuff. A great disc. I haven't gotten a whole lot recently so I'm itching for something new! Lay it on me. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Newgarden <dn@panix.com> Subject: Otomo (fwd) Date: 13 Apr 1998 21:12:16 -0400 (EDT) I'm forwarding these Otomo Yoshihide U.S. dates (minus a lengthy bio/discog) sent to me by Keiko Uenishi (oblaat@ibm.net) who organized all this... I believe the European dates are posted at www.tzadik.com otomo/sachiko M tour in the u.s. May 8th, Friday in New York @ The Cooler, 416 W. 14th St. (bet. 9th Ave. & Wash. St.) - SKIF2 (Sergei Kuryokhin International Festival vol.2) - featuring : Otomo Yoshihide/Christian Marclay/DJ Toshio trio, Sachiko M/Koosil-ja duo, and others (Silver Apples, David Linton aka Circuit Redux/ Lloop of We(I*(J duo, and guest DJs) showtime: 9 p.m. tkt: $10/adv., $12/door note: Otomo said in his recent e-mail; he & Sergei met in Tokyo & discussed to collaborate on CD project which never materialized since Sergei passed away in the following year after they had the conversation. Otomo performed one of Sergei's fellow musicians who was supposed to appear on the CD, as a tribute to Sergei. The concert was recorded & mixed by Otomo which will be released in Russia within several months. ------- May 9th, Saturday in New York @ fakeshop(www.fakeshop.com, live internet hookup), 90 North 11th St., Brooklyn(Williamsburg), NYC (near Bedford Ave. on L train) - Mimetic Playground Party, featuring Filament(Otomo/Sachiko M duo), TV Pow(Gentle Giants Record: http://members.aol.com/gengiant/ihot/menu.htm, from Chicago), and others: Nova, Mneumonyk Hi-Fi(www.junkradio.com), E.O.E., pitchbrite, and guest DJ visuals by day-dream, and fakeshop clew showtime: 9 p.m. till 3 a.m.(Filament's time slot will be 11:30 p.m.) admission: $5 ------- May 10th, Sunday in New York @ The Knitting Factory (main space), 74 Leonard St. (bet. Church St. & B'way) - Otomo Yoshihide, Sachiko M, Anthony Coleman, and Andy Haas, plus members of TV Pow will join towards the end of the set to jam. showtime: 10 p.m. tkt: TBA ------- May 11th, Monday in Pittsburgh @ The Millvale Industrial Theater - Filament, TV Pow, Condemek ------- May 12, Tuesday in Cleveland @ Speak In Tongues - Filament, TV Pow ------- May 13, Wednesday in Detroit @ The Gold Dollar - Filament, TV Pow, Goat, and Condemek ------- May 14, Thursday off ------- May 15, Friday in Chicago @ Lounge Ax - I.S.O., Jim O'Rourke, You Fantastic!, and TV Pow --------- Check out for Otomo's European part of schedule at www.tzadik.com (in its News & Notes section.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen drury <stevedrury@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Stockhausen Date: 13 Apr 1998 22:46:28 -0400 At 11:11 PM 4/12/98 -0600, you wrote:> >PS: Stephen Drury not commenting on the available versions on MANTRA? I >personally miss the original one (with Alfons and Alois Kontarsky). Never liked it, even though I tried. Even went to hear it performed live at Tanglewood last summer late at night. --steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: Stockhausen Date: 13 Apr 1998 22:25:55 -0400 stephen drury wrote: > > At 11:11 PM 4/12/98 -0600, you wrote:> > >PS: Stephen Drury not commenting on the available versions on MANTRA? I > >personally miss the original one (with Alfons and Alois Kontarsky). > > Never liked it, even though I tried. Even went to hear it performed live at > Tanglewood last summer late at night. > --steve I agree. MANTRA was the first disc I picked up by Stockhausen and it was a while before I got another. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Silent Watcher" <silent_watcher@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Boston Area Music Stores Date: 13 Apr 1998 22:00:17 PDT >I'm going to Boston this week and weekend. >Where are the best avant/experimental record stores? > When I was in school up there, I was fan of Mystery Train II, about two blocks past Newberry Comics on Newberry Street (same side, downstairs). There a used store, but they usually had some real gems tucked away on CD and Vinyl. Also Nuggets and Planet Records in the Kenmore Square area. If you make a left on Commonwealth Ave, coming from the Tower on Massachusetts Ave, you'll run into Nuggets first, then Planet, a few blocks past that. SW ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: THE LOUNGE LIZARDS Date: 14 Apr 1998 01:37:33 -0400 hulinare@bemberg.com.ar wrote: > Is there anybody out there who knows the entire LOUNGE LIZARDS > discography (including labels)? The Lounge Lizards (1981) Editions E.G. Live In Tokyo Big Heart (1986) Antilles No Pain For Cakes (1987) Antilles Voice of Chunk (1989) Lagarto Live in Berlin 1991 Part I (1991) Intuition Live In Berlin 1991 Vol II (1992) Intuition The Queen of All Ears (coming in 1998) Strange and Beautiful Music I think there was also a live cassette on ROIR which may or may not be available on CD, called "Live from the Drunken Barge" or something equally colorful. Strange and Beautiful Music is Lurie's own new label, currently negotiating a distribution deal. They'll be issuing both the long lost 1996 recording "The Queen of All Ears," which was made for Luaka Bop but dropped due to a personality dispute, and an all-new Lizards album as well, which is great news since I find the current Lizards hypnotic to the extreme. Check out http://www.inch.com/~lagarto for more details on all things lizardly. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Artur Nowak" <arno@silesia.top.pl> Subject: Good music stores in Philadelphia, PA Date: 13 Apr 1998 16:08:39 +0200 Dear Philozorners! Could anyone recommend good CD stores in Philadelphia, PA, USA? By "good music store" I mean store with Zorn / Zorn-related artists. The same question about Berlin, Germany. Thanks! ____________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/emd/pl40/artists/f/frisell_bill/default.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: stockhausen (trade) Date: 14 Apr 1998 11:09:52 GMT0BST i've got the DG cd of solo clarinet pieces -"in freunschaft", "traum- formel", "armour"- played by Suzanne somebody (it's not in front of me...). if anyone's interested in it , please get in touch... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: stockhausen trade Date: 14 Apr 1998 11:27:53 GMT0BST i've got the CD cd of solo clarinet pices played by Suzanne Stephens; if anyone's interested, please get in touch... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: stockhausen Date: 14 Apr 1998 11:52:34 GMT0BST i've got a deleted DG cd of the solo clarinet pices played by suzanne stephens; if anyone's interested in making me an offer, please get in touch... hywel davies - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J.T. de Boer" <S0821683@let.rug.nl> Subject: Re: Math Rock Date: 14 Apr 1998 14:42:40 +0100 Hi, the album (they released just one) was released by Roadrunner, so it should still be available. Sometimes I see some secondhand copies at a local CD-store. I can check it out if you like. If you have a MD I can make a digital copy for you (but that's an option I'd rather wouldn't use...) Best wishes, Jeroen In a message dated 98-04-07 06:43:53 EDT, you (J.T. de Boer) write: << Cynic-Focus; The band who delivered their drummer ans guitarplayer to (IMHO) the best metal album ever made; Human by Death. Cynic does also 'focus' on a combination of metal and jazz. They're not as agressive as Meshuggah, but their songs are beautiful: based in the 70's jazzrock tradition. The music is rather easy to listen to, partly because of the very strong (in a musical sense) dynamics. Very good musicians. >> Been looking for these Cynic CDs (I think there's 2 of them.) Anyone know a dealer who still carries them? np: RRK- Rip, Rig, and Panic =dgasque= - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marc Downing <mpdownin@cousteau.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: recent goodies! Date: 14 Apr 1998 09:03:06 -0400 >So what have you all picked up recently that you've really enjoyed? It's >a simple question that I think should be asked now and again... David Shea's Satyricon, despite poorly written liner notes that attempt an explanation of his motivations, is fantastic. He's one of the most interesting collagists I've heard. He seems unafraid to sample sounds and music that, on their own, are very powerful. He's a chef that isn't afraid to serve sauce containing thirty red chillies simply for colour. Ground Zero "Plays Standards" is unbelievably good. I've noticed an enthusiastic group of Otomo fans here. You should all get this. You'll yelp for joy. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marc Downing <mpdownin@cousteau.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Recent Goodies. Date: 14 Apr 1998 09:09:17 -0400 >So what have you all picked up recently that you've really enjoyed? It's >a simple question that I think should be asked now and again... David Shea's Satyricon, despite poorly written liner notes that attempt an explanation of his motivations, is fantastic. He's one of the most interesting collagists I've heard. He seems unafraid to sample sounds and music that, on their own, are very powerful. He's a chef that isn't afraid to serve sauce containing thirty red chillies simply for colour. Ground Zero "Plays Standards" is unbelievably good. I've noticed an enthusiastic group of Otomo fans here. You should all get this. You'll yelp for joy. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sean Terwilliger <seanter@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: THE LOUNGE LIZARDS Date: 14 Apr 1998 09:08:10 -0400 Steve Smith wrote: > The Lounge Lizards (1981) Editions E.G. > Live In Tokyo Big Heart (1986) Antilles > No Pain For Cakes (1987) Antilles > Voice of Chunk (1989) Lagarto > Live in Berlin 1991 Part I (1991) Intuition > Live In Berlin 1991 Vol II (1992) Intuition > The Queen of All Ears (coming in 1998) Strange and Beautiful Music > > I think there was also a live cassette on ROIR which may or may not be > available on CD, called "Live from the Drunken Barge" or something > equally colorful. > I've got a CD on ROIR Europe called Live 1979-81. -Sean - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rusty Crump <dmcrump@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu> Subject: Re: recent goodies! Date: 14 Apr 1998 08:16:32 -0500 >So what have you all picked up recently that you've really enjoyed? It's >a simple question that I think should be asked now and again... > >For me, I was pretty pleased by Elliott Sharp's solo WESTWERK. It seemed >a little too standard e# though. Not enough sounds I haven't heard from >him before (which is why I would prefer SFERICS). I still can't >recommend SPRING & NEAP highly enough!!!! > >I also picked up SWORDFISHTROMBONE by Tom Waits which is another goody >with Greg Cohen (no Ribot unfortunatley). It's got that same style as >Rain Dogs with some great spoken wordy kinds of tracks and other stuff. >A great disc. > >I haven't gotten a whole lot recently so I'm itching for something new! >Lay it on me. > > -Tom Pratt > >- For me, "Medicine Hat" by the Will Bernard 4-tet provides all the thrills, spills and chills missing in the Scofield/Medeski/Martin/Wood album. Same guitar/organ/bass/drums lineup. Extremely hot playing, nothing by the numbers. Also I picked up Mingus' "The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady" a couple of weeks ago and have been kicking myself for not checking this out about a decade earlier. And the old standby, "The Kinks Are the Village Green Preservation Society." Especially the song "Animal Farm," where Ray Davies (never known as a very strong singer) really projects for once instead of the usual pinched nasalness -- a vocal performance of extreme passion... reminds me of "God" from John Lennon/Plastic Ono Band. The whole album is great. Rusty Crump Oxford, Mississippi - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: recent goodies! Date: 14 Apr 1998 09:33:01 -0500 >David Shea's Satyricon, despite poorly written liner notes that attempt an >explanation of his motivations, is fantastic. He's one of the most >interesting collagists I've heard. He seems unafraid to sample sounds and >music that, on their own, are very powerful. He's a chef that isn't afraid >to serve sauce containing thirty red chillies simply for colour. Seconded. Also try to find his wonderful 'Mort aux Vaches' on Staalplaat, a limited edition of 1000, containing live versions of 'Satyricon' and 'Hsi-Yu Chi'. Ground Zero "Plays Standards" is unbelievably good. I've noticed an enthusiastic group of Otomo fans here. You should all get this. You'll yelp for joy. Seconded again. To the extent one might call them a rock band, they're the finest rock band around, IMHO. Recent purchase: Gary Lucas' 'Busy Being Born'. It's generally a great deal of fun, Lucas fondly recalling songs with a Sephardic tinge from his youth including 'Dreidel', 'Sunrise, Sunset' and the theme from 'Exodus'. Features several of his standard jaw-dropping exercises like 'The Mensch in the Moon'. JZ guests on a few tracks. Also, the new WIRE arrived yesterday with a sampler CD (apparently only available in the US to subscribers) that has more than the usual amount of interesting music one tends to get on these things. One of the stand-out cuts is by a UK band called 2nd Gen made up, I take it, of British citizens of Middle-Eastern ancestry and sounding like a somewhat junlge-ized updating of God (the group, not that other deity). Anyone here heard of these guys? The disc also contains a track from Arto Lindsay's new 'Noon Chill' that's pretty nice. Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: recent goodies! Date: 15 Apr 1998 00:11:15 +1000 > Ground Zero "Plays Standards" is unbelievably good. I've noticed an > enthusiastic group of Otomo fans here. You should all get this. You'll > yelp for joy. What exactly is meant by "standards" in the Ground Zero context? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: recent goodies! Date: 14 Apr 1998 10:29:12 -0400 >>>>> "Julian" == Julian <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> writes: Julian> What exactly is meant by "standards" in the Ground Zero Julian> context? Another vote for a wonderful album. Standards which are generally known include Those Were the Days, Washington Post March, Bones (Massacre), Where is the Police (Misha Mengelberg), Bath of Surprise (Steve Beresford), I Say a Little Prayer (Roland Kirk version), plus a samba, and Japanese TV, pop and film music. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: THE LOUNGE LIZARDS Date: 14 Apr 1998 08:02:08 -0700 On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 01:37:33 -0400 Steve Smith wrote: > > hulinare@bemberg.com.ar wrote: > > > Is there anybody out there who knows the entire LOUNGE LIZARDS > > discography (including labels)? > > The Queen of All Ears (coming in 1998) Strange and Beautiful Music > I think there was also a live cassette on ROIR which may or may not be > available on CD, called "Live from the Drunken Barge" or something > equally colorful. Sure: 034 - LIVE 1979/81: Lounge Lizards John Lurie: alto; Evan Lurie: piano, organ; Steve Piccolo: bass; Anton Fier: drums; Arto Lindsay (8,9,10): guitar; Dana Vlcek (4,7): guitar; Danny Rosen (1,2,3,5,6,11,12): guitar. 1985 - ROIR (USA), A-136 (CT) ???? - Danceteria (France), DANCD046 (CD) ???? - Roir Europe/Danceteria Records, RE136CD (CD) > Strange and Beautiful Music is Lurie's own new label, currently > negotiating a distribution deal. They'll be issuing both the long lost > 1996 recording "The Queen of All Ears," which was made for Luaka Bop but > dropped due to a personality dispute, and an all-new Lizards album as > well, which is great news since I find the current Lizards hypnotic to > the extreme. Check out http://www.inch.com/~lagarto for more details on > all things lizardly. That's a great news. This new LL was announced almost two years ago and I was wondering it would eventually come up. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Re: recent goodies! Date: 14 Apr 1998 11:42:54 -0500 I picked up a bunch of things lately... It seems I have some sort of addiction. I probably don't really need to mention Zorn's Filmworks VIII but I will anyway. I have avoided the Filmworks discs in the past because I didn't like to have a million short tracks. VIII is different though, it basically has songs and they're all at least three minutes long. If you like Bar Kohkba (sp?) and Circle Maker (and Masada for that matter) and don't have this Filmworks, go get it. Even though I think it can get cheesy I find myself going back to Marc Johnson's latest with Frisell/Metheny/Baron, "The Sound of Summer Running." I can't relly put my finger on why I like it but I bet it's Frisell and Baron. I have tried to like Pat Meteny but I just can't. However, there are a couple I enjoy, "Bright Size Life" (with Jaco) and Joshua Redman's "Wish." Wish has a killer lineup for 1990s straight-ahead stuff: Charlie Hayden, Billy Higgins, and Metheny. I got Pigpen "Daylight" recently as well. It's much more chillin' than the others. I would say that "Miss Ann" grooves, "V as in Victim" is heavy-metal jazz, and the live one sort of mixes it all together. Daylight has some nice tunes on there, a couple are also on the Zony Mash disc. It would seem that he's recycling tunes (there are four on here that are used on other Zony Mash or Pigpen) but they fit in nicely. That's all for now. Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: recent goodies Date: 14 Apr 1998 13:28:25 -0400 (EDT) 'Circle Maker'...ahhh..... -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: recent goodies! Date: 14 Apr 1998 14:34:05 -0400 (EDT) the newly reissued (okkadisk) joe mcphee / ken vandermark / kent kessler _a meeting in chicago_ cd is really worthwhile. the original release was actually in late 1997, so i guess it must have been a very limited pressing. anyway, like other okka titles, the packaging is great and the music has that breathy, sparse, studied quality that i love about joe mcphee. he totally blew me away when i saw him live last summer. i also picked up the _noah howard quartet_ cd on esp last night, since all those titles are rapidly descending into out of print status again. and it got me to thinking how esp was to free jazz what blue note was to hard bop - just about anything you pick up on that label is good. hovering somewhere in the stratosphere between ayler's folk meldies and the swerving alto-sax lines of coleman, the only problem with this disc is that at 30 minutes it's just too short. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Pigpen Date: 14 Apr 1998 13:48:30 -0500 I want to find out how the EP "Halfrack" is without buying it. Does anyone have it? Is it worth getting if I like the Pigpen stuff, barring "V as in Victim?" Thanks, Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Pigpen Date: 14 Apr 1998 13:11:49 -0700 On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:48:30 -0500 Dan Hewins wrote: > > I want to find out how the EP "Halfrack" is without buying it. Does anyone > have it? Is it worth getting if I like the Pigpen stuff, barring "V as in > Victim?" It is a fantastic EP. If you like Pigpen as much as me, you will love it. This was the first Pigpen record ever released and I remember how impatient I was for the next (and first full-length). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jesse Simon <umsimo10@cc.UManitoba.CA> Subject: Re: THE LOUNGE LIZARDS Date: 14 Apr 1998 15:30:16 >Steve Smith wrote: >> I think there was also a live cassette on ROIR which may or may not be >> available on CD, called "Live from the Drunken Barge" or something >> equally colorful. Then Sean Terwilliger wrote: >I've got a CD on ROIR Europe called Live 1979-81. The Live album on ROIR and Live from the Drunken Boat are two completely separate albums. Live from the Drunken Boat was recorded in 1983 and features John and Evan Lurie plus Peter Zummo on Trombone and the strangely guitarless rhtyhm section of Tony Garnier and Dougie Bowne. As far as I know it is not available on CD. There is also another album which features the Lounge Lizards. It is called FUSION and is a series of compositions by Teo Macero. The title piece is written for Symphony Orchestra and Jazz Quintet and features the lounge lizards skronking and swinging their way through some fairly dense orchestral sounds. It's a good if strange collaboration. For what it's worth, I keep my copy filed under Lounge Lizards. >>Strange and Beautiful Music is Lurie's own new label, currently >>negotiating a distribution deal. They'll be issuing both the long lost >>1996 recording "The Queen of All Ears," which was made for Luaka Bop but >>dropped due to a personality dispute, and an all-new Lizards album That just brightens up my year immeasurably. cheers, jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Zorn <gking@win.bright.net> Subject: Minneapolis stores Date: 14 Apr 1998 17:16:02 -0700 since people are asking about stores....how about Minneapolis? i usually go to Let it Be are there better or cheaper stores? (mainly for avant/experimental) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: recent goodies! Date: 14 Apr 1998 18:14:32 -0400 (EDT) If you liked Howard's quartet disk, try to get "Live At Judson Hall" also on ESP. It's with a quintet (sextet) including Sirone and Dave Burell. Much more textural music, because there are more players involved. Howard is also touring the US around right now and should have some new CDs out soon. As for "A Meeting In Chicago". I have the original issue on Eighth Day Music. Is there *anything* different about this one than the other. And why was a year-old CD reissued? Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Brent Burton wrote: > > the newly reissued (okkadisk) joe mcphee / ken vandermark / kent kessler > _a meeting in chicago_ cd is really worthwhile. the original release was > actually in late 1997, so i guess it must have been a very limited pressing. > anyway, like other okka titles, the packaging is great and the music has > that breathy, sparse, studied quality that i love about joe mcphee. he > totally blew me away when i saw him live last summer. > > i also picked up the _noah howard quartet_ cd on esp last night, since all > those titles are rapidly descending into out of print status again. and > it got me to thinking how esp was to free jazz what blue note was to hard > bop - just about anything you pick up on that label is good. hovering > somewhere in the stratosphere between ayler's folk meldies and the > swerving alto-sax lines of coleman, the only problem with this disc is > that at 30 minutes it's just too short. > > b > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alain Potvin <louisp@destination.ca> Subject: Shea "Mort aux vaches" Date: 14 Apr 1998 18:28:23 -0400 I read a few weeks ago in this mailing list that David Shea "mort aux vaches" is very hard to find. (limited edition 1000 copy). I find it last week-end at Kim's video and music in NYC. They still have few copy. They don't have it at Downtown music gallery. The adress: 6 St Mark Place NYC Alain Potvin 1296 Julien St-Felicien Quebec, Canada - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: magnum-jihad@juno.com (Nathan M Earixson) Subject: Re: Minneapolis stores Date: 14 Apr 1998 18:15:11 -0500 On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:16:02 -0700 Zorn <gking@win.bright.net> writes: >since people are asking about stores....how about Minneapolis? >i usually go to Let it Be >are there better or cheaper stores? (mainly for avant/experimental) > between Oarfolkjokepus, Roadrunner, The Electric Fetus, KnowName and The Cheapo-Applause combo in St Paul, I can find more weird stuff than I can possibly afford and/or listen to. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Tim Berne and Chris Speed April-May tours Date: 14 Apr 1998 20:52:02 -0400 Sorry for the quasi-commercial intrusion: April-May tour dates for Tim Berne's Paraphrase (east coast and midwest) and Chris Speed's yeah, no (WA, OR, CA, Vancouver) can be found at the Screwgun website: http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/ssmith36/livedate.htm E-mail me if you can't see the website. Back to your regularly scheduled mayhem. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tony Reif <treif@songlines.com> Subject: Songlines update: Chris Speed tour, Brad Shepik gigs Date: 14 Apr 1998 18:27:58 -0700 (PDT) Chris Speed's Yeah No is performing at the Knitting Factory's Old Office April 15-19 before heading off on a west coast tour: April 24 Seattle O.K. Hotel April 25 Vancouver Western Front April 26 Bellingham Stewart's Coffee House April 27 Ellensburg afternoon clinic, evening concert April 28 Portland Bijou Cafe April 29 Eugene Sam Bond's Garage May 1 Santa Cruz Kuumba Jazz May 2 San Francisco The Sweat Shop May 3 San Diego Spruce Street Forum May 4 Los Angeles Luna Park Yeah No consists of Chris on tenor & clarinet, Cuong Vu on trumpet, Skuli Sverrisson on electric bass, and Jim Black on drums. Their first CD was released last summer on Songlines. "With equal parts rhapsodic lyricism, compositonal integrity, and freak-jazz freedom Speed's quartet delivers invigorating new music which hints at the shape of jazz to come." Trey Hatch, The Stranger "Here is an improvising saxophonist influenced as much by Elliot Carter ellipsis and Bartok folk studies as he is by Rollins or Coltrane. Yet, while the vocabulary may not be blues based the feeling conveyed speaks in a distinctive delta blues patois...Modern impressionist gutbucket...." Joseph Murphy, 5/4 Magazine "Chris Speed is a crucial newer voice on tenor saxophone....Speed's writing suggests a vast store of wide open ideas, loose melodies and modes (which work well here with the electric bass threading his needle from number to number) and the skills to hand over the goods in high style. Black is always interesting and ferocious, Cuong Vu is another new voice emerging surely and with individuality. But it's Speed's day and he is enjoying himself here, doing what he does and with fire, soul and a big brain." Spike Taylor, Exclaim! Chris is also the co-leader of Human Feel, whose latest CD, Speak to It, was released on Songlines in 1996, and Pachora (along with Brad Shepik, Jim Black and Skuli Sverrisson), whose first CD was released last year on Knitting Factory Works. He is also a member of Jerry Granelli's band Badlands, whose debut CD will be released on Songlines in June, and of Tim Berne's Bloodcount, Myra Melford's The Same River, Twice, Dave Douglas's sextet, and Erik Friedlander's Chimera as well as various other NY-based groups. Meanwhile, Brad Shepik and the Commuters are holding forth at the Bell Cafe in New York Sat. April 18 and 25 at 9:30 p.m. and at the Cornelia St. Cafe Sat. May 2 at 9:00 p.m. Brad plays mostly electric guitar and electric saz in this group, and the Commuters are Peter Epstein on soprano & alto, Skuli Sverrisson on electric bass, Michael Sarin on drums, and Seido Salifoski on dumbek and percussion. Their CD "The Loan" was released last fall on Songlines. "Ever-active fretmaster Brad Shepik excels in a vein of ethnic improv that mines Middle Eastern and southern European sources with real wit and passion....His playing has real flair, and the material is deep, spirited stuff - full of appeal not only for the avant-jazz crowd but also for world music fans and the hippie-groove contingent." Bradley Bambarger, Billboard Shepik is one of downtown's most exciting guitarists....Virtuoso rootless-cosmopolitan groovesmanship at its finest...." Richard Gehr, Village Voice (also ten best for 1997, Folk Roots) "Shepik takes a less is more approach to the material with close melodic development and attention to dynamic range....With emphasis on instrumental and ensemble texture, The Loan cuts a sharp path to the door of enduring, world musics while maintaining an improvisational link to jazz." Joseph Murphy, 5/4 Magazine Apart from his playing with Dave Douglas in the Tiny Bell Trio, Brad is co-leader of Pachora and of BABKAS (whose three CDs are on Songlines) and a member of Paul Motian's Electric Bebop Band, Matt Darriau's Paradox Trio, Carla Bley's Escalator Over the Hill, and Owen Howard's quintet. Tony Reif (Songlines Recordings) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dwight Haden <dhaden@worldnet.att.net> Subject: RE: Circle Maker errors Date: 15 Apr 1998 03:58:17 +0000 >Date: Sun, 12 Apr 1998 19:13:32 +0000 >From: "Charles Gillett" <gill0042@tc.umn.edu> >The liner notes for the first disc, "Issachar," list "Bikkurim" as >track 12 and "Idalah-Abal" as track 13. However, track 12 is actually >"Elilah," and track 13 is actually "Meholalot." Hopefully further >listening won't reveal more mistakes. > >Aha! The Tzadik web page has the correct titles for the tracks. I >just checked. None of the other track names have been changed. I >suppose I could edit the message, but this way you get to share in >the discovery with me. > >Actually, they call track 12 "Elijah," but according to Masada 8/Het >it's "Elilah." My copy of Circle Maker (which I bought 2 weeks ago from DMG) lists the corrected song titles for 12 and 13. Track 12 is shown as Elilah. At the time I bought it, every local and/or web based retailer I checked seemed to be "out-of-stock/backordered" on Circle Maker. It appeared to have been taken out of production by Tzadik. If I remember correctly, Bar Kokhba was also yanked from production soon after release, but in this case to replace a track or two with an alternate recording. Has anyone ever confirmed this? Are there 2 slightly different versions of Bar Kokhba out there? Dwight Haden === dhaden@worldnet.att.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Rath <fripp@ibm.net> Subject: Minneapolis Stores Date: 14 Apr 1998 23:13:52 -0500 >since people are asking about stores....how about Minneapolis? >i usually go to Let it Be >are there better or cheaper stores? (mainly for avant/experimental) > Let it be probably is the best one for unconventional/avant garde. OarFolkJokeOpus (26th St. and Lyndale) is probably the second best. If you're looking for Zorn related (Tzadik/Avant) or other Jazz, the electric Fetus is great (4th Ave and Franklin). Another good one, although without as good of an avant selection, is Roadrunner (43rd st. and Nicollet). Those are the ones I go to most often. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: Mezz, a great jewish musician... Date: 15 Apr 1998 13:54:50 +1000 (EST) On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, Chris Barrett wrote: > >Like: is that clear enough for you, dopey? > > I think this is a little uncalled for... > Its a little rude, to be sure - but given this turkey's ignorance of that which he speaks, coupled with his straight-out ignorance: perfectly justified... On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, George Grella wrote: > James Douglas Knox writes: > > > > Have you actually read his book? If so, you'd "know" that his initial > > attraction to jazz was that it was an expression of Afro-american > > culture; and as such, a negation of the Amerikkka's dominant > > WASP culture... > > > > Like: is that clear enough for you, dopey? Mezzrow may have devoted much > > of his life to music, but this choice and the specific choice of the kind > > of music he played was informed by a social context: the experience of a > > white, jewish, middle-class male in a society that still had (and has?) a > > large measure of tacit (and maybe more?) racism towards such a person... > > > > Do I need to make this any clearer for you? > > > > Yeah, I have actually read this book, rhetoric-breath. And I know it's > a lot more fun than your hind-sightful, ideological attitude about it. > I "know" that his attraction to jazz had a lot to do with the music > itself, not some sort of guilty, social protest, like, might come from > some self-lacerating WASP, like, say, yourself? FUCK YOU MAN My heritage is hundreds of proud years of Irish Catholic, plus a little Indigenous Australian, you stupid Fucker - And in all instances the subject of generatioons of opression by WASP fuckwits like youself. You have no more idea about this than you do about the actual subject in point which is: In first chapter of his book, Mezzrow EXPLICITLY states that he felt absolutely no affinity for his Jewish cultural heritage - that for him it was tainted by the dominant WASP culture that he felt totally disaffected from. And, OK: maybe I'm being naive - maybe this is his late '50s ghostwriter putting a sentiment in his mouth thats not really there - but ITS IN TTHE FUCKING BOOK, AND ITS WRIT COUNTRY SIMPLE so that even a redneck simp like you can work it out. And he reiterates his identification with Afro-American culture throughout most of the book - especially in the later chapters. Like: if anyone there doubts what I'm saying, I'll borrow the book again and post the quotes... And there's plenty. > And then Mezz was a jazz musician, which he spends a lot of time as in > the book. While it's clear to me that his race role, his "social > context," is important to you, I just find pleasure in the actual music > itself, which is my concern and, fortunately, to a great extent Mezz's > as well. He played jazz, not some WASP music yearning to be free. > And if you'd read the book, you'd know that although he loved music and played and recorded plenty, most of his life was spent in a drug-fucked daze, and he bemoans the lost opportunities and wasted years that have characterised his life...Or at least, that's how he saw his own life (or again: maybe I'm being naive, and attributing the words to him when they're the invention of his ghostwriter) Sorry if I got a little heated here: but I in no way aver from the validity of my initial statement - which wasn't in any way provocative, and was perfectly congruous with Mezzrow's autobiography. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: recent purchases Date: 15 Apr 1998 15:27:09 +1000 I just got a bundle of cds which included the following: Filmworks 8 - not quite as spectacular as some said, but good nonetheless. Circle Maker - as spectacular as some said. Pachora - this is a great cd with a great feel. It's like all the Masada-ish stuff, but with a more "world" feel. It's got a more original flavour than FW8 anyway. Colma by Buckethead - a bit of a disappointment. There's some very lame writing here, but hey I guess we're supposed to like Buckethead for his playing technique, not for his writing, eh? Don't get me wrong though, there's a few good ones here. Miss Ann by Pigpen - very good, a bit of a surprise since the only other cd I have of theirs so far is Daylight which is a lot less "out there" than this. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ash <ash157@yahoo.com> Subject: Marc Ribot Date: 14 Apr 1998 23:07:25 -0700 (PDT) I own two CDs by Marc Ribot, Shoe String Symphonettes and Dont Blame Me; and I was wondering if anyone has any good suggestions of other albums he is own that I should check out. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Marc Ribot Date: 15 Apr 1998 16:14:55 +1000 > I own two CDs by Marc Ribot, Shoe String Symphonettes and Dont Blame > Me; and I was wondering if anyone has any good suggestions of other > albums he is own that I should check out. 2 that come straight to mind because I just got them are Filmworks 8 and The Circle Maker - Ribot's playing is a highlight on both of these. A brilliant album which shows him in a different light is Eclecticism by Kazutoki Umezu - it's got elements of jazz and funk plus everything from surf to western (and obviously some eastern too). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jesse Simon <umsimo10@cc.UManitoba.CA> Subject: Re: Marc Ribot Date: 15 Apr 1998 01:29:15 Ash wrote: >I own two CDs by Marc Ribot, Shoe String Symphonettes and Dont Blame >Me; and I was wondering if anyone has any good suggestions of other >albums he is own that I should check out. All of them, of course. But most especially: Rootless Cosmopolitans is part of the Island Records cutout series. Records that no one bought in the mid to late eighties and found themselves in every bargain bin of every Tower Records from here to wherever you are. It's a great album featuring many great musicians and such. It's definitely in a "fake jazz" vein, although with a definite edge to that stops it from ever becoming trivial. Shrek is harder to find, being on the Avant label but is worth the search. In fact it is worth whatever price you might pay just for his hyperkinetic take on Albert Ayler's BELLS. Ribot seems to have such a great understanding of Ayler (as evidenced from Bells and his version of Ghosts). cheers, jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stefan Verstraeten <stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be> Subject: where to get ground zero / standards Date: 15 Apr 1998 11:58:12 +0200 Dear Zornheads, I've read about the new cd by ground zero 'Standards'. But what's the record label and where is it for sale ??? Does dowtown music gallery have it ???? Please help me find out... greetings -- Stefan Verstraeten - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Felix" <jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt> Subject: Zorn Purchase Date: 13 Apr 1998 15:20:09 +0200 Well, I'm about to make my Zorn purchase of the month, and woud like to hear your opinion on these Zron records that interest me the most: "Classical Guide to Strategy" - I know it's lenghty, but how good is it, how does it sound? "Filmworks" - I actually haven't heard anything from Filworks series. What's the best one? "Nani Nani" - with Yamantake Eye. I have Mystic Fugu Orchestra, does it have anything to do with that? "Angelus Novus" - I've heard this is a Zorn masterpiece. "Krystalnacht" - Is it jew oriented also (in music I mean, because in concept it certainly is)? and finally "Cobra" - game pieces? Also, if you know something much better, please recommend it with a general description (other than Masada (including Bar Kohkba), Painkiller, Naked City, Elegy, Spy vs. Spy, and Mystic Fugu Orchestra). Thanks for yr patience. Felix jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jan-Wen Lu <janwenlu@top2.ficnet.net.tw> Subject: Re: where to get ground zero / standards Date: 15 Apr 1998 18:47:57 +0800 Stefan Verstraeten ?g?D?G > Dear Zornheads, > > I've read about the new cd by ground zero 'Standards'. But what's the > record label and where is it for sale ??? Does dowtown music gallery > have it ???? > > Please help me find out... > > greetings > -- > Stefan Verstraeten If you only want "Play Standards", you can get them from two online mailorder distributions- Forced Exposure http://www.fe.org/ Bent Crayon http://www.bentcrayon.com/ In fact, "Play Standards" is not a new one, there are plenty new titles with Otomo Yoshihide. Such as: 1.Cassiber/Live in Tokyo (Off Note/ReR) -a double CD set, first CD is a '92 live recording of Cassiber. On the second CD, Ground Ground Zero remixed the live recording of Cassiber. Released in late December in Japan. Currently available through ReR, too. 2.Otomo Yoshihide/Memory Defacement (Japan Overseas/FMN Sound Factory) -a wonderful double LP set. A project of very special concept. Limited to 500 sets only. You can order it from Japan Overseas. Each $30, with $10 as postage. 3.Ground Zero-Consummation(Creativeman Disc/SANK-OHSO Disc) -volume three of Ground Zero's project:consume. Fourteen remix tracks from artists all over the world. Our friend Jim Knox also contributes one track. Very interesting stuff!! Released on Apr. 1 in Japan. Haven't found any online mailorder distributor with this one. 4.Original Soundtrack-Kitchen(Toshiba-EMI) -another beautiful soundtrack by Otomo Yoshihide, along with The Blue Kite, Summer Snow, Hu-Du-Men, and The Day the Sun Turned Cold. For the Hong Kong movie Kitchen. Released in late Novemeber in Japan. 5.Three Inch Compact Disc Featuring Exclusive Tracks by Masonna/MC Hellshit & DJ Carhouse/Merzbow (Blast First) -a 3" CD with tracks by Masonna, Merzbow, and MC Hellshit & DJ Carhouse. The track of MC Hellshit & DJ Carhouse(Yamataka Eye & Otomo Yoshihide) is great but too short. Only 1'11". For those who are very interested in Otomo's works. You can check Yoshiyuki Suzuki's "Japanese Free Improvisers" web. http://www2.gol.com/miyuki/ You can also find how to mailorder those Otomo related items from Sachiko Matsubara(ex. Ground Zero). Jan-Wen Lu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vadim Marmer <msvadi@olive.mscc.huji.ac.il> Subject: Re: Zorn Purchase Date: 15 Apr 1998 14:07:48 +0300 (WET) i picked up "Angelus Novus" few days ago, and i`m really disappointed. i have "The Big Gundown" and "Spillane" and i like them both, but "Angelus Novus" just didn`t make me feel anything. i also ordered "Film Works 8", it is on its way to me and now i just don`t know what to expect to. i saw that "Bar Kohkba" and "Circle Maker" are very popular on this list, can somebody tell me how do they sound comparing to "Angelus Novus"? On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, Felix wrote: > Well, I'm about to make my Zorn purchase of the month, and woud like to hear > your opinion on these Zron records that interest me the most: > > "Classical Guide to Strategy" - I know it's lenghty, but how good is it, how > does it sound? > > "Filmworks" - I actually haven't heard anything from Filworks series. What's > the best one? > > "Nani Nani" - with Yamantake Eye. I have Mystic Fugu Orchestra, does it have > anything to do with that? > > "Angelus Novus" - I've heard this is a Zorn masterpiece. > > "Krystalnacht" - Is it jew oriented also (in music I mean, because in > concept it certainly is)? > > and finally > "Cobra" - game pieces? > > Also, if you know something much better, please recommend it with a general > description (other than Masada (including Bar Kohkba), Painkiller, Naked > City, Elegy, Spy vs. Spy, and Mystic Fugu Orchestra). > > Thanks for yr patience. > > Felix > jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt > > jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt > > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris Barrett" <cbarrett@neaq.org> Subject: Hamiet Bluiett & his Baritone Sax Quartet Date: 15 Apr 1998 08:15:22 -0400 I managed to catch the second set last night of Hamiet Bluiett's Baritone Sax Quartet (4 Bari's and a drummer), and it was a pretty cool show. Possibly cooler was Hamiet's almost rambling banter in which it sounded like he'd been lurking around the recent Wynton Marsalis thread. He kept going on about how it's time to take the music back, that all that other crap's been played and it's time for new stuff, and it pisses him off to see all the stuff stagnate. He also commented on how the shows should be fun, and that "I payed my $12-20 , so I am gonna hoot and holler and make a fool of myself!" The tunes went back and forth from crazy noise jams on the saxes to blues/funk send ups in which they would eventually get into a fantastic cacophanous frenzy and then bring it back down. The band was a hell of a lot of fun too, and they were clearly having a good time up there. Has anyone seen this group or have any thoughts on them? I know they have a recent CD out on the Knitting Factory works. The only guy besides Hamiet that I know of who's in the band is James Carter. I think it's kind of interesting that he's in it, especially since he apparently took Brandford's place in Wynton's band at the ripe old age of 17 (I think he's 27 now). I've always loved his playing and his amazing control, especially on tenor, but I always got a feeling that he was just about doin' the old stuff straight. It was good to see that he's exploring out a little bit. Anyone have any thoughts on him? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: mperlson@interport.net Subject: stockhausen, etc... Date: 15 Apr 1998 08:37:52 +0100 I've been trying to license some music from Stockhausen for an early electronic CD I'm putting together and a movie my company is working on and let me tell you, those people at Stockhausen Verlag are difficult and the own EVERYTHING. They want too much money and won't let most stuff happen. So, I wouldn't expect to see much more soon. Also, I own a copy of "Queen of All Ears" on CD, put out by Warner Bros Germany as a promo before it got dropped. It is an amazing recording, so it is great that it is finally coming out. That must be a rare one. I showed it to several of the Lounge Lizards and they couldn't believe I had it. That one isn't for sale, but I will sell my Mia Zabelka "Possible Fruit" CD on the Austrian Label Extraplatte. Two Zorn appearances, misspelled as Jon Zorn. It's in a digipack. Nice package, I've never seen another copy of this one. Also features David Moss and several other European musicians. Please email me directly if you want to make an offer. Ciao Mark Perlson - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: RE: Circle Maker errors Date: 15 Apr 1998 08:38:53 -0500 (CDT) On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, Dwight Haden wrote: > If I remember correctly, Bar Kokhba was also yanked from production soon > after release, but in this case to replace a track or two with an alternate > recording. Has anyone ever confirmed this? Are there 2 slightly different > versions of Bar Kokhba out there? http://www.tzadik.com has a page labeled "Collector's Corner (Tzadik Secrets) that I'm guessing will address this stuff soon. - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: recent goodies! Date: 15 Apr 1998 09:42:02 -0400 (EDT) On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, Ken Waxman wrote: > If you liked Howard's quartet disk, try to get "Live At Judson Hall" also > on ESP. It's with a quintet (sextet) including Sirone and Dave Burell. > Much more textural music, because there are more players involved. Howard > is also touring the US around right now and should have some new CDs out > soon. thanks for the recommendation. i'll definitely pick it up *if* i see it. > As for "A Meeting In Chicago". I have the original issue on Eighth > Day Music. Is there *anything* different about this one than the other. > And why was a year-old CD reissued? i think i read that the cover art is different, although i'm unfamiliar with the 8th day version. the okka cd is 70 minutes long so i don't know if they added any material... b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: stockhausen, etc... Date: 15 Apr 1998 09:58:57 -0400 (EDT) On Wed, 15 Apr 1998 mperlson@interport.net wrote: > I've been trying to license some music from Stockhausen for an early > electronic CD I'm putting together and a movie my company is working on and > let me tell you, those people at Stockhausen Verlag are difficult and the > own EVERYTHING. They want too much money and won't let most stuff happen. > So, I wouldn't expect to see much more soon. you should check out the news section of stockhausen-verlag website, where karlheinz's squeeze discusses plans to possibly *sue* a vocal group that performed "stimmung" incorrectly! b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Hamiet Bluiett & his Baritone Sax Quartet Date: 15 Apr 1998 10:01:23 -0400 (EDT) Carter is the only one of the so-called "young lions" for whom I have any hope. That's because even before his association with Our Mr. Marsalis he was exploring other musics. He had an association with some of the hipper people in Detroit like Marcus Belgrave, Wendell Harrison and Roy Brooks. Then, besides playing with Marsalis and Bluiett, he also did work with Lester Bowie, the antithesis to Marsalis. His original quarter featured Jaribu Shahid (b) and Tanni Tabal (d), veteran "out" players who had worked with Sun Ra, Roscoe Mitchell et. al. And Carter's most recent CD has duets with Bowie and Bluiett as well as the playing of a Braxton composition. That said, I hope Carter can live up to his promise. I've heard that he's recently changed his drummer and bass player. Most of the reviews I've read have commented on his "showboating" and the media seems to have set him up as the Rllong Stones to Joshua Redman's The Beatles, if you know what I mean, The very first time I saw Carter, in a club in Buffalo about three years ago, he seemed excessively self-satisfied for someone so young and untried. (Sorta like a pre-hits Bryan Adams I interviewed early in his career many year ago), and it seemed as if all this praise can do nothing but go to Carter's head. Let's see what happens and hope, Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, Chris Barrett wrote: The only guy besides Hamiet > that I know of who's in the band is James Carter. I think it's kind of > interesting that he's in it, especially since he apparently took > Brandford's place in Wynton's band at the ripe old age of 17 (I think he's > 27 now). I've always loved his playing and his amazing control, especially > on tenor, but I always got a feeling that he was just about doin' the old > stuff straight. It was good to see that he's exploring out a little bit. > Anyone have any thoughts on him? > > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar Subject: recent goodies!! Date: 15 Apr 1998 11:05:27 -0300 For me, "My man in Sydney" by Bobby Previte's Latin For Travelers has been a superb purchase; even though this isn't my first Previte, I'm pretty pleased with the powerful funky stuff included on this recent outing. Despite the "kicking-assy" performance of Previte, you have Jerome Harris (electric guitar/electric bass); Marc Ducret (electric guitar) and Jamie Saft on Hammond organ, Fender Rhodes piano ans mini moog. Billy Tipton Memorial Saxophone Quartet "Box" is unbelievable good; five girls who play covers and original combinations alike, but with something as elusive yet durable as breath. Really nasty funk and a wailing klezmer combo that also bears the stamp of various European and African folk dances and American derivatives and hybrids. For those who don't know the line-up: Amy Denio, alto sax; Jessica Luri, alto sax; Maya Johnson, tenor sax; Barbara Marino, baritone sax and Pam Barger on drums. I also got Spanish Fly "Fly by Night" recently as well. I'd say that Spanish Fly grooves great with an unusual instrumental configuration: Steven Bernstein on trumpet; Marcus Rojas blows tuba bass lines and Dave Tronzo supplies both slippery and powerful solid footing on slide guitar. Wow, wow, wow!!!, Ben Perowsky (!!!Maestro!!!) guests on a few tracks. A great deal of fun. And finally...Misha Mengelberg Trio "Who's Bridge" (Menguelberg, piano; Brad Jones, bass and Joey Baron (another Master) drums). I do ask myself if people on this list have already enjoyed such a piano trio like this (except for Patrice Proussel, of course). If Jones, Baron and Mengelberg don't get you tapping your toes, you better see an ear especialist! That's all for now. -Hugo - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Zorn Purchase Date: 15 Apr 1998 09:05:25 -0500 (CDT) On Mon, 13 Apr 1998, Felix wrote: > Well, I'm about to make my Zorn purchase of the month, and woud like to hear > your opinion on these Zron records that interest me the most: The answer would depend stongly on what you'd liked so far -- there's no way to tell, for example, whether someone who liked Bar Kochba would like the Complete Guide to Strategy or Leng T'che, for example. - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Geert Buelens <buelens@uia.ua.ac.be> Subject: Re: Tom Cora R.I.P. Date: 15 Apr 1998 16:30:30 +0200 (MET DST) I interviewed Tom Cora two years ago in Gent; indeed, a really nice guy and a great musician. It's a sad sad planet. geert > On Fri, 10 Apr 1998, Christopher Hamilton wrote: > > > Agreed on all counts. I met him once, and he was a hell of a nice guy, > > even after a long drive in a blizzard. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Charles Gillett" <gill0042@tc.umn.edu> Subject: Re: Minneapolis stores Date: 15 Apr 1998 09:38:14 +0000 On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 18:15:11 -0500 magnum-jihad@juno.com wrote: > On Tue, 14 Apr 1998 17:16:02 -0700 Zorn <gking@win.bright.net> writes: > >since people are asking about stores....how about Minneapolis? > >i usually go to Let it Be > >are there better or cheaper stores? (mainly for avant/experimental) > > > between Oarfolkjokepus, Roadrunner, The Electric Fetus, KnowName and > The Cheapo-Applause combo in St Paul, I can find more weird stuff than I > can possibly afford and/or listen to. Pricewise all of these stores are about the same (well, I don't know about Know Name, which seems to be just an excuse to sell bongs). The Electric Fetus is the most likely to have Zorn CDs at sale prices. Roadrunner is the only store in town that I've found which carries hatART CDs. Let It Be had a copy of Shea's "Mort aux Vaches" last time I checked. Let It Be also has a guy named Rob who is really into the "weird" stuff, and a guy named John who is very conversant on the subject of free jazz and obscure psychedelic music. Cheapo/Applause in St. Paul and Cheapo Uptown in Minneapolis have decent jazz/etc. selections, but they're pretty spotty. The "new release" wall in the uptown store hasn't been updated in months, and the racks are kind of a mess. I'm not sure what I think of Oar Folkjokeopus right now. On the one hand, it has one of the best Experimental music sections in town. On the other hand, their pop/rock section includes some questionable items, namely Nirvana and Beck bootlegs. I don't know why the owner would want to risk alienating customers in such a fashion. I suppose I should butt heads with him next time I go there. I'm sure the 99.9% of you folks who aren't in Minnesota are deeply fascinated by all this. -- Charles - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Charles Gillett" <gill0042@tc.umn.edu> Subject: Re: Circle Maker errors Date: 15 Apr 1998 09:38:14 +0000 On Wed, 15 Apr 1998 03:58:17 +0000 Dwight Haden wrote: > My copy of Circle Maker (which I bought 2 weeks ago from DMG) lists the > corrected song titles for 12 and 13. Track 12 is shown as Elilah. [...] > If I remember correctly, Bar Kokhba was also yanked from production soon > after release, but in this case to replace a track or two with an alternate > recording. Has anyone ever confirmed this? Are there 2 slightly different > versions of Bar Kokhba out there? Hmm, I bought my Circle Maker four days ago and it has the incorrect song titles. What a deal. Regarding Bar Kokhba, Erik Friedlander posted this to rec.music.bluenote ages ago: > Subject: Bar Kokhba first pressing unique > From: erikf@nyc.pipeline.com (Erik Friedlander) > Date: 1996/09/12 > I have heard that Zorn is changing the Bar Kokhba collection for the > next and all following pressings.....I believe the changes will affect > only one tune in the collection and involve some kind of orchestration > change...... So I believe there was a change but I don't know what it was. I should encourage my friends to buy copies of it so I can compare mine to theirs. I wonder if Zorn has corrected or will correct the misspelling of John Medeski's name on "Duras:Duchamp." Not to mention "paroxysm." The website has "Medeski" spelled correctly, but still spells "paroxysm" without the s. -- Charles - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Robert.C.Auten@Dartmouth.EDU (Robert C. Auten) Subject: Deconstructing Beck Date: 15 Apr 1998 11:16:27 EDT Ok, I think this got a bit of discussion a few days ago, but I just got my hands (via a prof, of all people) on a copy of the Illegal Art production "Deconstrucing Beck" and it refuses to leave me alone. Maybe not all the edits are Oswald quality, but this album, (made up from the sampled samples of various commercial Beck releases) is pretty damn cool and very Plunderphonic-esque. Anybody else hear this? More info and copies (only 5 bucks inc. shipping) available @ http://www.detritus.net/illegalart/beck Let me (and anybody else) know what you think. I belive Illegal Art has an album coming out soon of sampled soundtracks. Should be neato. And no, I had nothing to do w/ the production of any of these... some of you may know what I mean. anyway, scope it out. r - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Mezz, a great jewish musician... Date: 15 Apr 1998 08:22:17 PDT >FUCK YOU MAN My heritage is hundreds of proud years of Irish Catholic, >plus a little Indigenous Australian, you stupid Fucker - And in all >instances the subject of generatioons of opression by WASP fuckwits like >youself. You have no more idea about this than you do about the actual >subject in point > >which is:..... It sucks that this bullshit had to be brought to the table. This list a feast of ideas, at its best. Even when it consists of perhaps a deluge of top-20s, it's fun, and I'm willing to suspend suspicion and just enjoy people enjoying music. I write way too much and say nothing sometimes, and people will respond patiently, even enthusiastically, take my peanut-shell ideas to the ext level, reprove me good-naturedly....but a flame war? Brought out here in the open so we can see its oozing pus and tasteless obscenity? Nothing stylish, nothing clever---nothing fun or funny or fresh. This isn't invective. >ITS IN TTHE FUCKING BOOK, AND ITS WRIT COUNTRY SIMPLE so that even a >redneck simp like you can work it out. And he reiterates his >identification with Afro-American culture throughout most of the book - >especially in the later chapters. > >Sorry if I got a little heated here: but I in no way aver from the >validity of my initial statement - which wasn't in any way provocative, >and was perfectly congruous with Mezzrow's autobiography. Next time think before you write. I was really interested in the Mezzrow thread and in your ideas TOO, until they degenerated into impotent name-calling. I wasted time opening the above messages hoping to see Mezz, this guy I want to meet, from still another angle, and all I get is CRAP. So you're opinionated. SFW. >FUCK YOU MAN My heritage is hundreds of proud years of Irish Catholic, >plus a little Indigenous Australian, you stupid Fucker - I checked out the Muslimgauze ideological site last night. You might like it. Thanks to everyone who's kept this list confrontational AND constructive AND controversial AND interesting. At least MOST posts that make it here are worth opening. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: zornlist: new address? Date: 15 Apr 1998 08:23:38 PDT I seem to have lost the new zorn-list address through xmission that M. Rizzi posted? Could someone post it again please, or send it to me? --scott ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: recent goodies! Date: 15 Apr 1998 08:27:42 -0800 Dan Hewins writes: > Even though I think it can get cheesy I find myself going back to Marc > Johnson's latest with Frisell/Metheny/Baron, "The Sound of Summer Running." > I can't relly put my finger on why I like it but I bet it's Frisell and > Baron. > I can dig this, I listened to the CD in the record store and thought it was very solid, contemporary playing. The sound of the two guitars together is especially pleasing. Is anyone out here a devotee of Mosaic records? I just got a new set from them Monday, The Complete Atlantic Recordings of Lennie Tristano, Lee Konitz and Warne Marsh. As usual with Mosaic, it's wonderful, undervalued music and enlightening documentation. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Miles CDs for sale Date: 15 Apr 1998 10:43:40 -0500 Sorry to get in the way to sell CDs but I got the Miles Quintet box set and I need to get rid of a couple of discs. I have: Miles Smiles Sorcerer I'll sell them for $8 each, shipping included. email me privetely if interested. Thanks, Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jason J. Tar" <tarjason@pilot.msu.edu> Subject: Re: where to get ground zero / standards Date: 15 Apr 1998 13:01:56 -0400 > Such as: 1.Cassiber/Live in Tokyo (Off Note/ReR) > -a double CD set, first CD is a '92 live recording of Cassiber. >On the second CD, Ground > Ground Zero remixed the live recording of Cassiber. Released in >late December in Japan. > Currently available through ReR, too. Is this indeed available from ReR already? I was told that it wouldn't be available from them until later this year, and the Off Note version isn't being stocked anywhere in the US that I can find.... > 2.Otomo Yoshihide/Memory Defacement (Japan Overseas/FMN Sound >Factory) > -a wonderful double LP set. A project of very special concept. >Limited to 500 sets only. You > can order it from Japan Overseas. Each $30, with $10 as >postage. BentCrayon has this in stock (mine should hopefully show up soon!). It's $34.99 plus shipping (about $3). Crazy price for a double LP. Hopefully it'll prove worth it. --- Peace Hugs and Unity, Jason J. Tar Vampire Rodent Productions http://pilot.msu.edu/user/tarjason/VRodents.htm Featuring: Vampire Rodents, Ether Bunny, and Dilate. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque <Dgasque@aol.com> Subject: Re: Zorn Purchase Date: 15 Apr 1998 14:19:24 EDT In a message dated 98-04-15 06:19:32 EDT, you write: << Well, I'm about to make my Zorn purchase of the month, and woud like to hear your opinion on these Zron records that interest me the most: (clip) "Filmworks" - I actually haven't heard anything from Filworks series. What's the best one? >> I'd say start with the CDs in this series. _FW2_ seems to get the votes as best...i'd say start with __FW1_ and go forward (although buying one a month, you're never going to catch up anytime soon...;-) ) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Boster <boster@mills.edu> Subject: Re: Deconstructing Beck Date: 15 Apr 1998 11:37:39 -0700 (PDT) On 15 Apr 1998, Robert C. Auten wrote: > Ok, I think this got a bit of discussion a few days ago, but I just got my > hands (via a prof, of all people) on a copy of the Illegal Art production > "Deconstrucing Beck" and it refuses to leave me alone. Maybe not all the edits > are Oswald quality, but this album, (made up from the sampled samples of > various commercial Beck releases) is pretty damn cool and very > Plunderphonic-esque. Thanks for the kind words. I'm likely the only member of the DeconBeck artists that reads the zorn list, and I've been wondering if there would be any cross-interest, and I appreciate the plug. The heat from Beck's label is rising, so if you are interested I would try to get a copy soon. I recommend the rest of the detritus.net site as well. Mr. Meridies trks 1, 7, and 11 (last of which is realized completely live on CD players and processing) more often, Bob Boster - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jan-Wen Lu <janwenlu@top2.ficnet.net.tw> Subject: Re: where to get ground zero / standards Date: 16 Apr 1998 03:12:26 +0800 Jason J. Tar ?g?D?G > > Such as: 1.Cassiber/Live in Tokyo (Off Note/ReR) > > -a double CD set, first CD is a '92 live recording of > Cassiber. > >On the second CD, Ground > > Ground Zero remixed the live recording of Cassiber. Released > in > >late December in Japan. > > Currently available through ReR, too. > > Is this indeed available from ReR already? I was told that it > wouldn't be > available from them until later this year, and the Off Note version > isn't > being stocked anywhere in the US that I can find.... I have the February 1998 ReR update and it was listed. So I think it's available throught them.Got my own copy from Sachiko Matsubara in January. > > 2.Otomo Yoshihide/Memory Defacement (Japan Overseas/FMN Sound > >Factory) > > -a wonderful double LP set. A project of very special > concept. > >Limited to 500 sets only. You > > can order it from Japan Overseas. Each $30, with $10 as > >postage. > > BentCrayon has this in stock (mine should hopefully show up soon!). > It's > $34.99 plus shipping (about $3). Crazy price for a double LP. > Hopefully > it'll prove worth it. For a Japanese pressing, I think the price is not that crazy. The packing is also quite unique!! The first LP contains sound sources for this project. The second LP(only one-sided) is a live recordingby Otomo and Sachiko M. Otomo also describes this project in detail. In my point of view, most Otomo fans will love it very much. Jan-Wen Lu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Deconstructing Beck Date: 15 Apr 1998 12:22:15 -0700 On Wed, 15 Apr 1998 11:37:39 -0700 (PDT) Bob Boster wrote: > > > > On 15 Apr 1998, Robert C. Auten wrote: > > > Ok, I think this got a bit of discussion a few days ago, but I just got my > > hands (via a prof, of all people) on a copy of the Illegal Art production > > "Deconstrucing Beck" and it refuses to leave me alone. Maybe not all the edits > > are Oswald quality, but this album, (made up from the sampled samples of > > various commercial Beck releases) is pretty damn cool and very > > Plunderphonic-esque. > > Thanks for the kind words. I'm likely the only member of the DeconBeck > artists that reads the zorn list, and I've been wondering if there would > be any cross-interest, and I appreciate the plug. The heat from Beck's ^^^^^^^^^^^ That's a wonderful news :-). Let's face it, if they were not giving you a hard time, who would really care about your project? Patrice (who has patience with people who play with fire and act as victims when they get burned). > label is rising, so if you are interested I would try to get a > copy soon. I recommend the rest of the detritus.net site as well. > > > > Mr. Meridies > trks 1, 7, and 11 > (last of which is realized completely live on CD players and processing) > > more often, Bob Boster > > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: Zorn Purchase Date: 15 Apr 1998 15:38:45 -0400 (EDT) > "Filmworks" - I actually haven't heard anything from Filworks series. What's > the best one? I have FW 1, 2, 5, 6. I like FW 1 alot - it has some fine moments on it. The others are alright, but i hardly listen to any of them, and wouldn't really miss them if i traded them for other, cooler things... > "Nani Nani" - with Yamantake Eye. I have Mystic Fugu Orchestra, does it have > anything to do with that? Ack! This CD looked so cool, and it is sort of fun i suppose, but the joke here wears terribly terribly thin. If you want it, buy it from me, please! > "Krystalnacht" - Is it jew oriented also (in music I mean, because in > concept it certainly is)? It has some very jewish-flavours on quite a few tracks, and it also has the infamous 'second track' which is one of the most uncomfortable listening experiences i've ever had. highly recommended. Yum. > "Cobra" - game pieces? Fun, but very mood-specific. I don't listen to mine very much, but it is definitely interesting. > Also, if you know something much better, please recommend it with a general > description (other than Masada (including Bar Kohkba), Painkiller, Naked > City, Elegy, Spy vs. Spy, and Mystic Fugu Orchestra). The Big Gundown is way-cool - featuring eight-billion guest artists incuding Vernon Reid, Diamanda Galas, Bill Frisell (i think), and others... It's de/re-constructed versions of Ennio Morricone's soundrack music from various Westerns. Classically Zorny in approach, with jump cuts and loony-tunes dynamics all over the place. 'Euclid's Nightmare' is a bunch of short improvs with Bobby Previtte, and is very good, too. -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jan-Wen Lu <janwenlu@top2.ficnet.net.tw> Subject: Kato Hideki new release? Date: 16 Apr 1998 03:40:16 +0800 From the lastest News/Supplement of Downtown Music Gallery. There is a CD release party of Kato Hideki on May 10th. Any info. on Kato's upcoming new CD? On Tzadik or other label? Or it's just the CD release party for the "Dying Ground"(Avant) CD? Jan-Wen Lu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Avant World Music Date: 15 Apr 1998 14:56:15 -0500 A month or so ago I got the "Drums of Death" disc on Avant and I've really enjoyed it. I can't seem to find out what other World Music releases they have but I am interested. I saw BERNARD WOMA "Live At The Pito Bar" listed at FE; does anyone know how this one is? Basically any info is appreciated. Thanks, Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: IKUE MORI Recs Date: 15 Apr 1998 14:58:00 -0500 Any recommendations? I am intrigued and I would like to hear something involving her. It doesn't neccesarily need to be a session that she leads either. This is another one I don't know anything about. Thanks, Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2 <JonAbbey2@aol.com> Subject: Re: Kato Hideki new release? Date: 15 Apr 1998 16:12:06 EDT In a message dated 4/15/98 3:45:56 PM, janwenlu@top2.ficnet.net.tw wrote: <<From the lastest News/Supplement of Downtown Music Gallery. There is a CD release party of Kato Hideki on May 10th. Any info. on Kato's upcoming new CD? On Tzadik or other label? Or it's just the CD release party for the "Dying Ground"(Avant) CD?>> I'm pretty sure it's for the new Tenko record on Avant being released next week which Hideki is on. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chad edwards <chadhead@rocketmail.com> Subject: Edgar Varese Date: 15 Apr 1998 16:25:58 -0700 (PDT) I just heard some of Edgar Varese's Poeme Electronique and wanted to know if anyone can tell me anything about him. All I know is that he is French. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com> Subject: AACM Composer Series Date: 15 Apr 1998 19:38:23 -0400 Hopefully, you've already read about this upcoming show: Roscoe Mitchell- April 27, 7:30 PM at the Tribeca Performing Arts Center (199 Chambers St, NYC, 212-346-8510) The AACM will also be having these concerts latter this year: Andrew Cyrille- Sept 18th, 8PM, the New York Ethical Cultural Center (2 West 64th Street, NYC, 212-874-5210) Amina Claudine Myers- Oct. 17th, 8PM, NY Ethical Cultural Center Muhal Richard Abrams- Nov. 14th, 8PM, NY Ethical Cultural Center See you there, Jason Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Felix" <jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt> Subject: Re: Zorn Purchase Date: 15 Apr 1998 23:57:45 +0200 >The answer would depend stongly on what you'd liked so far -- there's no >way to tell, for example, whether someone who liked Bar Kochba would like >the Complete Guide to Strategy or Leng T'che, for example. Actually, I liked almost everything from Zorn that I've heard. Masada makes me crazy sometimes (saw them live - absolutely exciting and fascinating - got to speak with Baron), specailly them more speedy tunes like Mashav or Kedem (in Seven, i think), but also the sad, depressing tunes like Idalah-Abal. Spy vs Spy, I like alot too, speacially because Zorn made a different aproach to songs that had already been taken a different aproach by it's author, various times. Like speacially his interpretation in Mob Job. Naked City I adore, from the catchy, sometimes happy, sometimes not, Naked City to the weird, depressing Absynthe. My relationship with Elegy is one similar to Absynthe. I love it but find myself listening to it only from time to time. Sort of like Mike Patton's Pranzo Oltranzista. The Mystic Fugu Orchestra EP is the weirdest thing I heard Zorn do. It's so weird it surprised me. I actually thought there was something wrong with my CD player when I first played that album. Now, I'm not sorry I spent my money on it but I listen to it even fewer times than I listen to Absynthe or Elegy. So, basically, I'm looking for stuff that's not so taken to the extreme of experimental, but also with the Zorn mark in it. I liked Naked City's Grand Guignol stuff and haven't heard anything like it again (I'm referring, of course, to the first fourty minutes of the album, i.e., not Torture Garden). Any further help is appreciated. Felix jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: QUESOMALO <QUESOMALO@aol.com> Subject: Re: Good music stores in Philadelphia, PA Date: 15 Apr 1998 19:42:09 EDT In a message dated 98-04-14 04:29:49 EDT, you write: << Dear Philozorners! Could anyone recommend good CD stores in Philadelphia, PA, USA? By "good music store" I mean store with Zorn / Zorn-related artists. The same question about>> The best is definitely Sounds of Market on 11th street off market. The third floor is called Jazz sounds and has the best selection and prices in the city. They've recently started sponsering a series of concerts to get more interesting musicians to play in Philly. Great store... There's also Classical Choice (stocks lots of Zorny jazz in addition to classical) which recently moved from 38th and Walnut to, I believe, around 20th on Locust. Its prices and selection are not nearly as good as Sounds of Market but they do have some used stuff. -nick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Recent CDs Date: 15 Apr 1998 20:06:41 -0400 (EDT) My top 2 of the recent months are still Dave Douglas tiny bell # in europe and Bloodcount discretion, but here are some more things- fringe benefits of working at a radio station. Late arriving Avant CDs (these show up every 2 or so weeks) Erik Friedlander- Chimera (w/ C. Speed, D. Gress, A. D'Angelo) this is a pretty cool album, chamber jazz, unusual lineup- they also have one on tzadik- anyone heard this Joey Baron- Barondown -I was kind of disappointed by this, sounds kind of empty, esp. on the low end. He has some good tunes but overall a little restrained Bobby Previte's Empty Suits- I haven't heard the albums that everyone mentions, but I'm guessing that this isn't at the top of the list. Could be a soundtrack, pretty dark and atmospheric, and a good trombone solo at the endby Robin Eubanks John Scofield/MMW- blah Marc Ducret- Un Certain Malaise- I don't know many people who can sustain a solo electric performance like this, but this stays interesting. Some of it is like "Dali's Car" by Beefheart, then there's some pretty cool noise playing on the first one and some other stuff- this is the 1st I've heard of him so I don't quite no what to make of it, how it compares w/ his others, etc Zorn- Circle Maker- I'm a little less enthusiastic than some people but Ribot's and Feldman's esp. are fine, although I'm not sold on all of the songs. High expectations I suppose. Deconstructing Beck- this is still waiting for review, I better get to it. Finally, I found the New York Composers Orch (Horvitz, Ehrlich, etc.) on cassette for $5 and its really good. I didn't know if this was still available. Anyway... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Zorn <gking@win.bright.net> Subject: cheap cds Date: 15 Apr 1998 20:21:09 -0700 has anyone ever ordered from cheap cds? (http://cheap-cds.com/surf/about) i was wondering how good their service is thanks -matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Lounge Lizards redux Date: 16 Apr 1998 00:50:17 -0400 First, thanks to those who were able to explain the difference between the ROIR/Danceteria live release and "Live at the Drunken Boat." Second, I'm guessing now that "Queen of All Ears" is coming even sooner than I thought... the new issue of Esquire includes a column mentioning the two new releases on Strange and Beautiful, "Queen..." and the sounstrack for "Fishing with John." (Only Mark Perlson knows how my teeth chatter when you put those last three words in succession... but never mind me, the shows, currently playing on the Independent Film Channel, are an amazing drunken pisstake on adventure TV, like Jacques Cousteau half-pissed and existentialist, and the music's fine, too. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Tim Berne and Chris Speed April-May tours Date: 16 Apr 1998 00:59:52 -0400 (EDT) So, I'm not a huge Berne fan and there's a lot going on in the next couple of weeks for me musically and personally. As a result I'm undecided on whether to attend the Paraphrase show here in Pittsburgh next week (Wednesday, April 22). Could someone describe Paraphrase in enough detail to indicate to me whether I should bust my ass to get to this one? Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Tim Berne and Chris Speed April-May tours Date: 16 Apr 1998 01:58:36 -0400 Christopher Hamilton wrote: > So, I'm not a huge Berne fan [snip] Could someone describe Paraphrase i= n > enough detail to indicate to me whether I should bust my ass to get to = this > one? Obviously I'm not entirely objective, but I've been a Berne fan for a lot longer than I've worked with him, so let me at least try to answer your question.If you're not a huge Berne fan because of his compositional styl= e but you like his playing, then Paraphrase may be for you because it's freely improvised, albeit freely improvised by three musicians used to playing composed music so you won't often mistake this for Peter Br=F6tzmann. Paraphrase tends to improvise freely until the guys find a form they can = agree upon, then improvise within that form. This means they'll shake your boo= ty at least as often as they'll shake your fillings. If you're not a huge Berne fan because of his playing, avoid Paraphrase, because it's all about playing. If the length of the average Bloodcount chart turns you off stay away, be= cause Paraphrase improvs are longer on average. But to these admittedly biased ears, Paraphrase spontaneously makes amazi= ng music appear out of thin air on any given night. Drew Gress is a great bassist. And Tom Rainey is the most amazing unsung percussionist in New = York (now that everyone knows Jim Black). There are nights he just makes my j= aw drop. Some of those nights he's playing standards with Fred Hersch; othe= rs find him playing freestyle with Tim and/or Mark Helias. He is Paraphrase= 's secret weapon. You will agree, this I promise. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com Paraphrase's unsecret whippet - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jesse Simon <umsimo10@cc.UManitoba.CA> Subject: Re: Lounge Lizards redux Date: 16 Apr 1998 01:33:33 Steve Smith wrote: >Second, I'm guessing now that "Queen of All Ears" is coming even sooner >than I thought... the new issue of Esquire includes a column mentioning >the two new releases on Strange and Beautiful, "Queen..." and the >sounstrack for "Fishing with John." (Only Mark Perlson knows how my >teeth chatter when you put those last three words in succession... but >never mind me, the shows, currently playing on the Independent Film >Channel, are an amazing drunken pisstake on adventure TV, like Jacques >Cousteau half-pissed and existentialist, and the music's fine, too. I'm very interested in finding out more about this new label. There is no info on the Lounge Lizards web page and ... well ... the Lounge Lizards (in any incarnation) are pretty much my favorite working jazz band and have been for a number of years. Will Strange and Beautiful albums be distributed across north america or will they only be available in new york and through mail order? Also ... if anyone has a videotape of Fishing With John, I'd love to get a copy. cheers, jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "abulafia" <abulafia@i1.net> Subject: RE: Recent Goodies Date: 16 Apr 1998 07:45:18 -0500 Hello all. I've been getting the list for some time, but have not until know written in. This is mostly due to not having time so I am always about 2 days behind the discussion. But that aside. Recent goodies. The Painkiller disk set. This has been talked about allot, so I am sure you all know how good it truly is. Sonic Youth/Jim O'Rourke SYR3 I know there are many SY fans on the list, but that not everyone seam's completely sold on there notion. This I think is there farthest work on where Rock can go yet. Beautiful almost concerto like lay out of tracks, you don't notice precisely where they start & stop. Sweet backing groves, punctuated by discordant, percussive tones. Lots O" Fun. Arcana Arc of testimony Tons' to love here for the Bill Lazzwell fan in all of us. Plus the stunningnessosity of Tony Williams. (Yeah so what if stunnignessosity it's a real phrasamathingy!) Buckethead putt's in a performance worthy of notice to the Praxis fan. David Byrne Feelings Certainly in my opinion his best work since the Threads, reminiscent of naked era folkrock/swoon stuff. Loved it all day long. Miles Davis Pangaea I'm know by looking at the recent tallies of the Top 20 list's, that I don't have to tell anyone about Miles, but this is truly a beautiful record. OP8 Slush I've actually had this for some time, so I guess you can't really call it a recent goodie preset. But it has still had a hard time coming out of my CD player. Simply a great collection of well written songs, played out at there own pace. A slow drawn-out kiss of a record, I can't put it down. Well that is about all, hope you all approve, & if you don't, well, to bad! Keep on keeping' on. JohnG Abulafia. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Cecil Taylor questions Date: 16 Apr 1998 08:39:52 -0500 Spent the last couple of evenings listening to some of my favorite CT (ie, some of my favorite music), that of the late 60's early 70's: 'Unit Structures', 'Conquistador!', 'Indent' and 'Spring of Two Blue-J's' (not to mention perhaps the most astonishing performance of all: his JCOA/Mantler work). To the best of my knowledge, I'm missing two recordings from that period: 'Praxis' and 'Nuits de la Fondation Maeght'. The former was issued on the Greek label of the same name. It apparently bears the recording date 'June, 1968' though in Damon Short's on-line discography he mentions "reliable sources" indicating that it's from around 1972. I recently heard it on radio (bless you, WKCR) and it did sound to me more in line with 'Indent' than the JCOA thing. a) Does anyone here know for sure? b) Is this available anywhere? The latter (on Shandar?) is from 1969, I think, and is the only recording so far as I know of Sam Rivers' brief tenure with CT. Again, does anyone know if this can be found? If it is Shandar, is Robi Droli planning to release it? Thanks for any info, Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com> Subject: Re: Good music stores in Philadelphia, PA Date: 16 Apr 1998 09:02:55 -0400 QUESOMALO wrote: > In a message dated 98-04-14 04:29:49 EDT, you write: > > << Dear Philozorners! > > Could anyone recommend good CD stores in Philadelphia, PA, USA? By > "good > music > store" I mean store with Zorn / Zorn-related artists. The same > question > about>> > > The best is definitely Sounds of Market on 11th street off market. > The > third floor is called Jazz sounds and has the best selection and > prices in the > city. They've recently started sponsering a series of concerts to get > more > interesting musicians to play in Philly. This is not correct. Craig Baylor, an employee of S of M, and I are the sponsors. We are Sweetnighter Productions, which has no connection to Sound of Market. Sound of market is in no way connected with our jazz series, and in fact your statement about their interest in musicians is way off target. > Great store... > There's also Classical Choice (stocks lots of Zorny jazz in > addition to > classical) which recently moved from 38th and Walnut to, I believe, > around > 20th on Locust. Its prices and selection are not nearly as good as > Sounds of > Market but they do have some used stuff. Classical Choice has contributed to the success of our jazz series, and in fact has a growing jazz department that carries all of Zorn's releases. There is also a large used cd selection that is on-line at cdchoice.com. The name of the store in no way reflects the inventory, which is about 60-40 on the classical side. It is located at 21st and Walnut. These are the facts, my brother. Alan BTW, Gerry Hemingway's quartet featuring Ellery Eskelin, Herb Robertson, and Mark Dresser will be performing on May 22nd at the Unitarian Church, 21st and Chestnut. Craig and I (Sweetnighter Productions) are the sponsors. Today's City Paper has a nice article on Sweetnighter Productions, thanks Nate Chinen and City Paper. > -nick > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marcin.Witkowski@wor.tvp.com.pl Subject: Life Litania for sell/trade Date: 16 Apr 1998 15:31:13 +0200 Litania - Tomasz Stanko septet plays music of Krzysztof Komeda is the best selling jazz album in Europe right now. I have 90minutes video (VHS-PAL) and double CD-r (made from DAT) from LIFE Stanko's Litania performance. Anyone interested in buy/trade e-mail me privately. Marcin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: Cecil Taylor questions Date: 16 Apr 1998 10:03:35 -0400 (EDT) On Thu, 16 Apr 1998 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > The latter (on Shandar?) is from 1969, I think, and is the only > recording so far as I know of Sam Rivers' brief tenure with CT. Again, > does anyone know if this can be found? If it is Shandar, is Robi Droli > planning to release it? i think rivers also played on the cecil taylor concert box set on prestige. i have a terry riley cd (_whirling surgery dervishes_) that was originally released on shandar and reissued on mantra (i think), so i imagine that there's always hope. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com> Subject: Re: IKUE MORI Recs Date: 16 Apr 1998 10:26:13 -0400 On Wed, 15 Apr 1998 14:58:00 -0500, Dan Hewins said: > Any recommendations? I am intrigued and I would like to hear something > involving her. It doesn't neccesarily need to be a session that she leads > either. This is another one I don't know anything about. > She's an amazing instrumentalist. She'll be playing here at one of the Sonic Youth shows at Irving Plaza in June and there's other shows listed at the Tzadik site (www.tzadik.com). It's well worth your time to see her live. For her work, I'd recommend Garden or her collaborations Death Ambient (with Fred Frith and Kato Hideki) and Painted Desert (with Marc Ribot and Robert Quine). The first two are on Tzadik and the last one is on Avant. Patrice Roussel has a very good discography for her at http://www.nwu.edu/jazz/artists/mori.ikue/discog.html Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Paraphrase Date: 16 Apr 1998 15:37:09 GMT0BST Chris, I went to the Bath Festival last year, which was an expensive way to see both Berne groups: I went with great expectations for Bloodcount - which were somewhat disappointed - and great trepidation about Paraphrase - which was delightfully dissipated. Steve Smith's analysis is pretty accurate; but let me emphasise that Rainey is a drummer to be SEEN - he makes Joey Baron look restrained. I mean that his movements seem - superficially - excessive, but to me they seem indicative of complete immersion in the music (which is how Baron impressed me 10 years ago). It was a strange venue; some posh old town house with ludicrous portraits adorning the walls, and we were sat right at the front (a good move, even if I closed my eyes for long stretches). I'm reluctant to advise you to hear the album first, cos I'm sure I wouldn't listen to it in the same way if I hadn't seen them first ... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Lounge Lizards, and ... Date: 16 Apr 1998 15:47:20 GMT0BST Big Heart was one of my fave albums of the mid-80s. But who's in the group now? Also: can anyone review Tomasz Stanko's BossaNossa (on GOWI), compared to the ECM albums by the same quartet? Also: how come, in listing the "only good stuff" on ECM, nobody mentioned the Dave Holland Quintet albums of the 1980s, with Coleman, Wheeler, Priester/Eubanks and Ellington/Smith. They're bloody brilliant! Of course there will be lots of stuff on ECM that's not to any individual's taste - isn't that true of all labels? (It is for me!) Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: mori Date: 16 Apr 1998 11:06:06 -0400 (EDT) On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Perfect Sound Forever wrote: > For her work, I'd recommend Garden or her collaborations Death Ambient > (with Fred Frith and Kato Hideki) and Painted Desert (with Marc Ribot > and Robert Quine). The first two are on Tzadik and the last one is on > Avant. Patrice Roussel has a very good discography for her at > http://www.nwu.edu/jazz/artists/mori.ikue/discog.html she also played drums with the arto lindsay in the new york no-wave band, dna. tzadik released a live set of theirs from cbgb's. i saw mori play with derek bailey and john zorn late last year @ the knitting factory and was kind of underwhelmed by her drum machine avec effects improvisations. although her style of volume swells was pretty consistent with bailey's electric guitar playing, i just kept wishing that she was playing a kit. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be> Subject: Re: mori Date: 16 Apr 1998 17:19:47 +0200 >i saw mori play with derek bailey and john zorn late last year @ the >knitting factory and was kind of underwhelmed by her drum machine avec >effects improvisations. although her style of volume swells was >pretty consistent with bailey's electric guitar playing, i just kept >wishing that she was playing a kit. I think this is a big problem for electronic musicians doing live performances (especially the more compact electronic instruments like samplers and drum-machines): the audience only sees a person behind a table pushing buttons on a machine, even if the musician must take the same musical decisions as somebody playing conventional instruments. This was the main point of criticism in local papers on the Mori-performance of Death Ambient last year: the performance was to cold for the critics and it looked as if she was not touched at all by the music (as opposed to Kato Hideki on bass). I guess the opposite is true. YVes - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Tim Berne and Chris Speed April-May tours Date: 16 Apr 1998 11:36:25 -0400 (EDT) Let me add my "Amen" to what Steve wrote. I saw Rainey live for the first time in February playing with Mark Helias and Ellery Eskelin. I was sitting no more than three feet from his drumset and wasn't overcome by bombast, even when he soloed. To me that's the mark of a great drummer: someone who can do all that's required without raising the volume. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Steve Smith wrote: . And Tom Rainey is the most amazing unsung percussionist in New York > (now that everyone knows Jim Black). There are nights he just makes my jaw > drop. Some of those nights he's playing standards with Fred Hersch; others > find him playing freestyle with Tim and/or Mark Helias. He is Paraphrase's > secret weapon. You will agree, this I promise. > > > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Lounge Lizards, and ... Date: 16 Apr 1998 10:42:20 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, DR S WILKIE wrote: > Also: how come, in listing the "only good stuff" on ECM, nobody > mentioned the Dave Holland Quintet albums of the 1980s, with Coleman, > Wheeler, Priester/Eubanks and Ellington/Smith. They're bloody > brilliant! Of course there will be lots of stuff on ECM that's not > to any individual's taste - isn't that true of all labels? (It is > for me!) Which reminds me of another two essential ECM artists: Meredith Monk and Old And New Dreams... - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: James & his Giant Bitch Date: 16 Apr 1998 08:50:37 -0800 James, some advice; stop hyperventilating before you faint, and watch out for bruises from beating your chest. Now let me help you out a little here, because you surely need it. Since personal perspective seems to be the only thing you recognize, I'll give you some of mine; I've been playing jazz, performing professionally, for 19 years. For me, Jazz Is, it is what it is, never touched in any way by "WASP hegemony" because it was never part of any such thing [as if American culture was EVER solely WASP culture]. Even if I was both a WASP fucktwit and a redneck simp, what would I be doing in jazz, as such an obvious WASP hegemonist [is that anyone other than yourself, African-Americans and Mezz Mezzrow]? And your "point," which may only be the need to be potty-mouthed with people who don't agree with you, begs the question on this list, since John Zorn's work is now explicitly, self-consciously, Radical Jewish Culture, and since Mezz says [and if Mezz says, then you can bet anything that only a stupid Fucker would disagree], that Jews are tainted by WASPS, then doesn't that make Zorn a WASP hegemonist also? A conundrum. Of course, on the good side is that WASPs can now take credit, country-wide, for their part in the Civil Rights movement, via all those young Jewish kids. Unless we look at the possibility that, outside of the entirely personal context of things [which means one has to reject the maxim that the personal is the political; I'll raise my hand as the first hearty volunteer], we can't take Mezzrow's statement as a proven quality for the entire culture. Of course, that was my initial point, which obviously must have been more than provocative, like throwing napalm on the fire of your Objective Truth. I would be the first to admit that Mezzrow has his own feelings, which are valid as his OWN feelings and experiences, regardless of the accuracy of his memory or his views. But there's an interesting thing, there's other people who have their own feelings and experiences, which might be different. One does not supercede the other, it doesn't matter how sympathetic you or I might be to any of the particular views. Agree with what Mezzrow says, but just because he says it doesn't make it true, or RIGHT. James, the way you're acting is like someone out of an old American Leninist-Trotskyist debate. I'll let you judge yourself on how wise and mature that makes you. If you want to believe one man's experiences, great, if you make one man's experiences the Objective Truth for all people, than even the most innocent questioning of that is an apostasy, and you're showing that in a big way. I can post all the quotes you and I want [I OWN the book, James], but it's still one man's experience. I could post quotes' from "Straight Life," but that's just one man's experience. Hell, I could find quotes of Andre Hodier essentially complaining that Lester Young was too avant-garde, but that's not universal aesthetic/political truth. If you want to believe everything you read, that's your life. I would recommend "Bird Lives," a novel that masquerades as a biography of Charlie Parker. That strikes me as something that would please you. And James, if someone disagreeing with your gross generalizations causes you enough stomach trouble to bring your diahrrea of the mouth, then I suggest you move back in with Mommy and Daddy and don't leave the house, because it can be scary out there. Or at least wear a bib. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Woma, etc. Date: 16 Apr 1998 12:16:41 -0400 (EDT) Bernard Woma plays an instrument that sounds sort of like a Marimba, its a pretty wild album- definately Zorn like in production as the person who was recording it got up in the middle and started dancing and so the sound is supposedly worse after halfway thru. I played it on the radio and someone called up to complain after 8 minutes. I didn't hear the whole album but some other people folks around the station liked it. TOo bad those things are so expensive. Also, how could someone not like TimBerne's writing? Anyway I'd go see him because I missed him when Bloodcount came and I regret it sorely. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert A. Pleshar" <rpleshar@midway.uchicago.edu> Subject: Re: James & his Giant Bitch Date: 16 Apr 1998 11:33:15 -0500 (CDT) At 08:50 AM 4/16/98 -0800, George Grella wrote: > And your "point," which >may only be the need to be potty-mouthed with people who don't agree >with you, begs the question on this list, since John Zorn's work is now >explicitly, self-consciously, Radical Jewish Culture, and since Mezz >says [and if Mezz says, then you can bet anything that only a stupid >Fucker would disagree], that Jews are tainted by WASPS, then doesn't >that make Zorn a WASP hegemonist also? A conundrum. Just as an aside, I have my doubts that Mezzrow's family was particularly immersed in Jewish culture. Knowing a bit about the neighborhood that he grew up in and it's ethnic makeup at the time, his family was probably one of the few in the neighborhood that was jewish. He grew up in Austin, which at the time, was a sleepy bedroom comminty of mainly WASPs and some catholics. Most jews lived in Lawndale and Douglas Park at the time, farther south and east than Austin. Austin was a well-to-do community and I could see how one would rebel against the rich aspects of his surroundings, as did many of his non-jewish neighbors and peers whom he played with. In other words, I don't think Mezzrow'sseemingly nominal jewishness had much to do with it. Rob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Schwartz <jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu> Subject: Re: Cecil Taylor questions Date: 16 Apr 1998 13:19:36 -0400 Sorry if someone already got to this- A ton of Shandar stuff was reissued on CD (at budget prices) by Jazz View, including their live Cecil, Ra, and Ayler sets & Cecil's "Spring of Two Blue Jays" (originally on Unit Core). I saw them at many stores in San Francisco a year ago & at CDNOW. They may be pirated since the series listed inside also includes a number of bootlegs or "audio verite" recordings. I'm pretty sure that the 3 live Shandar discs are the same as the Prestige "Great Concert" box, but don't sue me if it isn't. Any recomendations on FMP's Cecil meets the European Free Improvisers series? -- Jeff Schwartz jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Sedlak <twsedlak@artsci.wustl.edu> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #330 Date: 16 Apr 1998 12:43:28 -0500 (CDT) > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 98 08:39:52 -0500 > From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu > Subject: Cecil Taylor questions > all: his JCOA/Mantler work). To the best of my knowledge, I'm missing > two recordings from that period: 'Praxis' and 'Nuits de la Fondation > Maeght'. > > The latter (on Shandar?) is from 1969, I think, and is the only > recording so far as I know of Sam Rivers' brief tenure with CT. Again, > does anyone know if this can be found? If it is Shandar, is Robi Droli > planning to release it? I have these three "Fondation" discs via some little label called JazzView (pretty sure that that is the name). It is the same label that reissued "Spring of 2 Blue J-s". All of them sound as if they were mastered directly off someone's old vinyl copy. > i think rivers also played on the cecil taylor concert box set on prestige. I've always been under the impression that the prestige box is the same thing as the three "Fondation Maeght" discs. Anyone care to confirm? Furthermore, in the past year Black Lion has reissued the "Great Paris Concert." Does this have any overlap? Just a few months ago they also put out a disc called "Trance." I have a one sheet that claims it harbors previously unreleased material, but the track listing and lineup suggests that it is merely a 1 CD repackaging of Nefertiti (the 1962 Cafe Momarte recordings). Anyone know if this is an abridged disc of the original Freedom double LP and Revenant double CD or whether these are really alternate unissued takes? TS - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Sedlak <twsedlak@artsci.wustl.edu> Subject: Cecil Taylor reissues Date: 16 Apr 1998 12:45:44 -0500 (CDT) > Date: Thu, 16 Apr 98 08:39:52 -0500 > From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu > Subject: Cecil Taylor questions > all: his JCOA/Mantler work). To the best of my knowledge, I'm missing > two recordings from that period: 'Praxis' and 'Nuits de la Fondation > Maeght'. > > The latter (on Shandar?) is from 1969, I think, and is the only > recording so far as I know of Sam Rivers' brief tenure with CT. Again, > does anyone know if this can be found? If it is Shandar, is Robi Droli > planning to release it? I have these three "Fondation" discs via some little label called JazzView (pretty sure that that is the name). It is the same label that reissued "Spring of 2 Blue J-s". All of them sound as if they were mastered directly off someone's old vinyl copy. > i think rivers also played on the cecil taylor concert box set on prestige. I've always been under the impression that the prestige box is the same thing as the three "Fondation Maeght" discs. Anyone care to confirm? Furthermore, in the past year Black Lion has reissued the "Great Paris Concert." Does this have any overlap? Just a few months ago they also put out a disc called "Trance." I have a one sheet that claims it harbors previously unreleased material, but the track listing and lineup suggests that it is merely a 1 CD repackaging of Nefertiti (the 1962 Cafe Momarte recordings). Anyone know if this is an abridged disc of the original Freedom double LP and Revenant double CD or whether these are really alternate unissued takes? TS - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: Cecil Taylor questions Date: 16 Apr 1998 13:55:23 -0500 Jeff wrote: >Any recomendations on FMP's Cecil meets the European Free >Improvisers series? Another glaring gap in my collection. When they came out, I figured I'd get most of them eventually, but to date have only purchased two: 'The Hearth' with Evan Parker and Tristan Honsinger which is pretty nice and 'Alms/Tiergarten/Spree' with the orchestra which is superb.I understand the disc w/Bailey is fine (as might be expected) with Derek being the musician in this series who most 'bent' CT towards his style. Personally, I'm very curious about the duet with Louis Moholo. Anyone? Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: shopkins@globalnet.co.uk (Simon Hopkins) Subject: Re: mori Date: 16 Apr 1998 19:15:22 +0000 Having seen Death Ambient play in London last year, I have to say that I must disagree. While it's always a pleasure to watch a vituoso play a, er, "real instrument", it can be a distraction. One can get caught up in the whole technique thing. On the other hand, to watch someone like Mori sit behind a simple box, frantically pressing buttons and footswitches, and produce such astonishing aural results preserves some real mystery in the whole music-making process. Whatever, the DA gig was one of the best I attended last year. S >i saw mori play with derek bailey and john zorn late last year @ the >>knitting factory and was kind of underwhelmed by her drum machine avec >>effects improvisations. although her style of volume swells was >>pretty consistent with bailey's electric guitar playing, i just kept >>wishing that she was playing a kit. > >I think this is a big problem for electronic musicians doing live >performances (especially the more compact electronic instruments like >samplers and drum-machines): the audience only sees a person behind a >table pushing buttons on a machine, even if the musician must take the >same musical decisions as somebody playing conventional >instruments. > >This was the main point of criticism in local papers on the >Mori-performance of Death Ambient last year: the performance was >to cold for the critics and it looked as if she was not >touched at all by the music (as opposed to Kato Hideki on bass). >I guess the opposite is true. > >YVes > > >- n. simon hopkins a. 216 kensington park road london w11 1nr t/f. (0)171 727 9329 c. (0)973 654 276 e. simon@state51.co.uk or shopkins@globalnet.co.uk - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Cecil Taylor questions Date: 16 Apr 1998 11:28:16 -0800 Jeff Schwartz writes: > Any recomendations on FMP's Cecil meets the European Free > Improvisers series? > If you mean the "In Berlin" series, then I would recommend ALL OF THEM! Absolutely. My personal favorite, FWIW, is the recording with Derek Bailey. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com> Subject: Re: mori Date: 16 Apr 1998 14:38:12 -0400 On Thu, 16 Apr 1998 11:06:06 -0400 (EDT), Brent Burton said: > i saw mori play with derek bailey and john zorn late last year @ the > knitting factory and was kind of underwhelmed by her drum machine avec > effects improvisations. although her style of volume swells was > pretty consistent with bailey's electric guitar playing, i just kept > wishing that she was playing a kit. > Gotta disagree here. I saw the same show and I was amazed at what she was able to do. Though she does sit there quietly and push buttons and turn knobs, the sounds that she's able to create are amazing- I think she outclassed some of the other people at that show (without trying). I also saw her do a great set with Kim Gordon of Sonic Youth at the Anchorage last year. Don't be fooled by her seemingly quiet demeanor- if you just listen, there's a lot going on. I think the work she's doing now is much better the playing she did on a drum kit with DNA. Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Cecil Taylor questions Date: 16 Apr 1998 11:40:14 PDT > >Any recomendations on FMP's Cecil meets the European Free >Improvisers series? >-- >Jeff Schwartz >jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu >http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html If for some INSANE REASON anyone is selling their box set, I'm buying! On that note, I really like the meetings with Tony Oxley and especially Paul Lovens: my favorite playing by Lovens on record (which I've heard). REGALIA (w/Lovens) is a super-awesome record. --scott ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: mori Date: 16 Apr 1998 14:58:29 -0400 (EDT) nOn Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Perfect Sound Forever wrote: > Gotta disagree here. I saw the same show and I was amazed at what she > was able to do. Though she does sit there quietly and push buttons and > turn knobs, the sounds that she's able to create are amazing- I think > she outclassed some of the other people at that show (without trying). > Don't be fooled by her seemingly quiet demeanor- if you just listen, > there's a lot going on. I think the work she's doing now is much better > the playing she did on a drum kit with DNA. well it wasn't as if bailey's stage presence was that much more electric. i just didn't think she was sonically was adding that much. i mean you can *tell* me that there was a lot going on, but i just didn't *hear* it. i would've been just as happy if it had been just zorn and bailey. i mean, it's improv, so it's too much of an assumption for me to say that it didn't seem as if zorn or bailey were really feeding off mori, but that's what it sounded like from the front row. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: mori Date: 16 Apr 1998 14:58:30 -0500 >> i saw mori play with derek bailey and john zorn late last year @ the >> knitting factory and was kind of underwhelmed by her drum machine >>avec effects improvisations. although her style of volume swells was >> pretty consistent with bailey's electric guitar playing, i just >>kept wishing that she was playing a kit. > >Gotta disagree here. I saw the same show and I was amazed at what she >was able to do. Though she does sit there quietly and push buttons >and turn knobs, the sounds that she's able to create are amazing- I >think she outclassed some of the other people at that show (without >trying). I also saw her do a great set with Kim Gordon of Sonic Youth >at the Anchorage last year. Don't be fooled by her seemingly quiet >demeanor- if you just listen, there's a lot going on. I think the >work she's doing now is much better the playing she did on a drum kit >with DNA. Crikey! Was everyone on this last at that show?! We should probably wear name tags. Anyway, I'll second Jason; I thought Ikue was amazing and more than held her own in that crowd. I, too, get a kick out of someone with such a calm demeanor producing such wild and inspired sounds. Brian Olewnick -- Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2 <JonAbbey2@aol.com> Subject: Re: mori Date: 16 Apr 1998 15:06:25 EDT In a message dated 4/16/98 2:52:44 PM, bburton@CapAccess.org wrote: <<> Gotta disagree here. I saw the same show and I was amazed at what she > was able to do. Though she does sit there quietly and push buttons and > turn knobs, the sounds that she's able to create are amazing- I think > she outclassed some of the other people at that show (without trying). > Don't be fooled by her seemingly quiet demeanor- if you just listen, > there's a lot going on. I think the work she's doing now is much better > the playing she did on a drum kit with DNA. well it wasn't as if bailey's stage presence was that much more electric. i just didn't think she was sonically was adding that much. i mean you can *tell* me that there was a lot going on, but i just didn't *hear* it. i would've been just as happy if it had been just zorn and bailey. i mean, it's improv, so it's too much of an assumption for me to say that it didn't seem as if zorn or bailey were really feeding off mori, but that's what it sounded like from the front row. b>> well, I loved Mori during this concert. I thought Zorn was actually the odd person out. He seemed to be switching between his duck call mode and a very quiet, subdued mode without ever exploring the territory in between. I remember saying to the illustrious Steve Smith afterwards that I would like to hear a duet record between Mori and Bailey. What she does with textures is remarkable and not really captured fully on any record I've ever heard. She holds her own with any of the live "electronica" acts I've seen, from Autechre to Mouse On Mars. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: more mori Date: 16 Apr 1998 15:37:29 -0400 (EDT) On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, JonAbbey2 wrote: > well, I loved Mori during this concert. I thought Zorn was actually the odd > person out. He seemed to be switching between his duck call mode and a very > quiet, subdued mode without ever exploring the territory in between. I > remember saying to the illustrious Steve Smith afterwards that I would like to > hear a duet record between Mori and Bailey. What she does with textures is > remarkable and not really captured fully on any record I've ever heard. She > holds her own with any of the live "electronica" acts I've seen, from Autechre > to Mouse On Mars. i think i *really* must have been @ a different show! i grant you that a duo disc between mori and bailey would be cool to hear, but i thought zorn sounded really nice that night. and i think he responded well to the clashing between bailey's plaintive, floating harmonics and agressive, distorted assault of notes. maybe that's why his "switching" was so abrupt? i was sitting about three feet from his horn and i was loving every minute of it. as far as "electronica" goes, i don't think anything i've heard mori do on drum machines can touch autechre, who compose tracks that sound like computers dying rhythmically - shards of sound. i didn't feel mori did *enough* with the sampled drum sounds at that show or on the recent _painted desert_ - they just sounded like drum machines. stiff. but then again her approach seems completely different than autechre's. apples and oranges. love, b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Langvik" <tjohansen@vf.telia.no> Subject: Theatre of musical optics Date: 16 Apr 1998 21:48:31 +0200 I have some questions abaout Zorns Thetre of musical optics.... I would be happy if any of you goys and gals could answer these...: 1. How was the objeckts highlighted on the grid....? (I have a theory abaout spotlights being used on each grid to light up th= e objects in piece......) 2. How did time get out of the music? 3. How does "Fidel" and "Caf=E9 wha?" help to point towards the answer of what remains after both time and sound is taken away from a musical performance? Anybody? Roger - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2 <JonAbbey2@aol.com> Subject: Re: more mori Date: 16 Apr 1998 15:55:37 EDT In a message dated 4/16/98 3:35:50 PM, bburton@CapAccess.org wrote: <<as far as "electronica" goes, i don't think anything i've heard mori do on drum machines can touch autechre, who compose tracks that sound like computers dying rhythmically - shards of sound.>> I'm talking about live performances, not records. Both Autechre and Mouse On Mars, who have made a bunch of great records between them, are not especially interesting live, at least in my experience. It's much harder to create the sort of multi-layering effects that help to make many electronica albums good when you're performing live. Mori's very good at it. Very few electronica acts are. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sfunk@pop.adn.com (Stephen Funk) Subject: Cobra Date: 16 Apr 1998 12:00:27 -1000 Digging back in memory a few years... I bought the 2LP "Cobra" on HatArt way back when it first came out. I don't think I ever listened all the way through. I recall there was a studio version and a live version. Pretty "cerebral" sounding stuff, and if you didn't know better you might think it was random. Of course the process used to compose the piece is interesting, but the results are often a bit tedious if I recall. I do remember the live version containing some amusing "breaks" where the band would suddenly start playing the "Beer Barrell Polka" or something... aparently this was built in to the composition in some way to keep it from getting too "boring". I think there were also a few of these moments in the studio version, where someone would randomly put a record on a turntable and let it play for a few seconds... I really can't remember details too well about this one. Someone else on the list can probably fill in the blanks a lot better than me. Personally, I have never been intersted in buying this piece on CD. I don't know if the CD is the same as the Hat Art LPs, or a new performance... I imagine the piece could sound totally different with different players and instrumentation. So, if you're into the more experimental, non-linear, process-music, improv side of Zorn, you may find it interesting. If you're more on the Naked City, Spillane, Big Gundown side of the fence, you may be bored. If you must have all things Zorn, it's a no brainer. One man's story. - Steve *** *** *** Steve Funk (sfunk@pop.adn.com) Anchorage, AK USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Theatre of musical optics Date: 16 Apr 1998 15:01:09 -0500 (CDT) That's a fascinating bunch of questions -- but what are you asking about? Is the theatre of musical optics something other than just a publishing company? On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Roger Langvik wrote: > I have some questions abaout Zorns Thetre of musical optics.... - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re:Cobra Date: 16 Apr 1998 21:14:17 UT I think Cobra as much theatre as it is music. I would not hesitate to ever see it live, if I got the chance again. Listening to a recording of cobra would be like listening to a recording of Stomp, as far as I'm concerned, maybe interesting, but you're only getting half the point. PeterR ____________________Reply Separator____________________ Author: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Digging back in memory a few years... Personally, I have never been intersted in buying this piece on CD. I don't know if the CD is the same as the Hat Art LPs, or a new performance... I imagine the piece could sound totally different with different players and instrumentation. So, if you're into the more experimental, non-linear, process-music, improv side of Zorn, you may find it interesting. If you're more on the Naked City, Spillane, Big Gundown side of the fence, you may be bored. If you must have all things Zorn, it's a no brainer. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: Theatre of musical optics Date: 16 Apr 1998 16:15:39 -0500 2. How did time get out of the music? Well, how _does_ time get out of the music? Hmmmm. Brian Olewnick ;^) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: more mori Date: 16 Apr 1998 16:46:51 -0400 (EDT) > I'm talking about live performances, not records. Both Autechre and Mouse On > Mars, who have made a bunch of great records between them, are not especially > interesting live, at least in my experience. It's much harder to create the Whoa...too bad you didn't have MY experience of an Autechre live show. (Autechre...Autechre...Autechre...) I'll spare the play-by-play account of what the set was like, but i did sneak a few peeks over the DJ table to see what they were up to. It looked like a whole bunch of synths connected to a Mac, running some sort of sequencer and they just ran the whole show to a MIDI clock whilst tweaking knobs. I'm not sure how 'preprogrammed' the set was, ie: if they were capable of 'improvising' or not, and how much the live knob tweaking and Mac-poking changed the course of events... It still blew me and everyone i talked to afterwards far far away. Perhaps the LSD helped. -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: more mori Date: 16 Apr 1998 15:54:32 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, ia zha nah er vesen wrote: > (Autechre...Autechre...Autechre...) BTW, how the bleep do you pronounce that? I've heard everything from "Ottiker" to "Oh Tekh Ra" to "Aw-Tesh(gurgle)". - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: more mori Date: 16 Apr 1998 17:13:37 -0400 (EDT) On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Joseph S. Zitt wrote: > On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, ia zha nah er vesen wrote: > > > (Autechre...Autechre...Autechre...) > > BTW, how the bleep do you pronounce that? I've heard everything from > "Ottiker" to "Oh Tekh Ra" to "Aw-Tesh(gurgle)". i have it from reliable sources that it's pronounced: aw-tek-er (the "techre" part is pronounced similar to occur) b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tag Yr It <TagYrIt@aol.com> Subject: Sorry to spam..... Date: 16 Apr 1998 17:16:10 EDT Hello list-eners..... I have about 75 CD's to get rid of cheap...everything from Debbie Gibson to Painkiller. Email me privately for a list..... Dale. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Theatre of musical optics Date: 16 Apr 1998 15:26:15 -0700 On Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:01:09 -0500 (CDT) "Joseph S. Zitt" wrote: > > That's a fascinating bunch of questions -- but what are you asking about? > Is the theatre of musical optics something other than just a publishing > company? It is much more than that! Zorn was involved in some kind of minimal theatre in the late '70s (a consequence, I guess, of frequenting artists like Foreman and Smith). I remember that during the Zorn month at the KF, he had a couple of late performances where he would just sit on the floor and spend the full time just moving little objects. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Simon Thibaudeau" <aag017@agora.ulaval.ca> Subject: Merzbow Date: 16 Apr 1998 14:40:38 -0400 Message en plusieurs parties et au format MIME. ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BD6945.9F468220 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Does anybody know where to start with Merzbow? There is so much and I = don't know where to start. Any suggestion If I'm too off subject please e-mail me personnally Simon Thibaudeau Personal: simon.thibaudeau@ift.ulaval.ca Mindspell: aag017@agora.ulaval.ca (418)658-6150 http://mindspell.home.ml.org http://mindspellzine.home.ml.org Mindspell "paper" 'zine out now! featuring: Devin Townsend, Sadus, Brutal Truth, Raison D'=EAtre, Solar Spine and more.... Send 2$ US and Canada 3$ World to: Mindspell=20 c/o Simon Thibaudeau 112 Ste-Marie Panet G0R 2J0 Canada "..and so this style of expression will depend largely on representation by sounds and gesture.."=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BD6945.9F468220 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"> <HTML> <HEAD> <META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type> <META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.2106.6"' name=3DGENERATOR> </HEAD> <BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>Does anybody know where to start with Merzbow? There = is so=20 much and I don't know where to start. Any suggestion</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2>If I'm too off subject please e-mail me=20 personnally</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Simon Thibaudeau<BR>Personal: <A=20 href=3D"mailto:simon.thibaudeau@ift.ulaval.ca">simon.thibaudeau@ift.ulava= l.ca</A><BR>Mindspell:=20 <A=20 href=3D"mailto:aag017@agora.ulaval.ca">aag017@agora.ulaval.ca</A><BR>(418= )658-6150</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2><A=20 href=3D"http://mindspell.home.ml.org">http://mindspell.home.ml.org</A><BR= ><A=20 href=3D"http://mindspellzine.home.ml.org">http://mindspellzine.home.ml.or= g</A></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Mindspell "paper" 'zine = out=20 now!<BR>featuring: Devin Townsend, Sadus, Brutal Truth,<BR>Raison = D'être,=20 Solar Spine and more....</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Send 2$ US and=20 Canada<BR> 3$ = World</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>to: Mindspell <BR>c/o Simon = Thibaudeau<BR>112=20 Ste-Marie<BR>Panet<BR>G0R 2J0<BR>Canada</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>"..and so this style of = expression will=20 depend<BR>largely on representation by sounds and gesture.."=20 </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_0034_01BD6945.9F468220-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: Theatre of musical optics Date: 16 Apr 1998 19:07:11 -0400 (EDT) > I remember that during the Zorn month at the KF, he had a couple of late > performances where he would just sit on the floor and spend the full time > just moving little objects. ...deep......very deep.... :) -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Merzbow Date: 16 Apr 1998 16:35:25 -0700 On Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:40:38 -0400 "Simon Thibaudeau" wrote: > > Does anybody know where to start with Merzbow? There is so much and I = > don't know where to start. Any suggestion If I were you, I would wait for the 50xCD set :-). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jdschone@sas.upenn.edu (John D Schonewolf) Subject: Bang on a Can and Thanks Date: 16 Apr 1998 19:44:00 -0400 (EDT) Dear Listservers (Particularly the Philly ones), I wanted to write and see what people thought about the whole Bang on a Can Festival and their CDs. Any recommendations on where to start with their catalogue? Tommorrow night down here at Penn at the Annenberg Center, the Bang on Can players will be in concert, playing their interpretation of Brian Eno's ambient Music for Airports. I will be unable to attend, I think, as I will be participating in drunken festivities related to Spring Fling here, but I am sure that others will wish to pursue more cerebral pursuits. I also wish to thank everyone for their recommendations and whatnot, as it is so great to read such informative posts everyday Jack Schonewolf - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com> Subject: Re: Theatre of musical optics Date: 16 Apr 1998 16:47:29 -0700 (PDT) On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Roger Langvik wrote: > I would be happy if any of you goys and gals could answer these...: ^^^^ a Freudian slip? hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: WINRECORDS <WINRECORDS@aol.com> Subject: Crib @ AlterKnit Date: 16 Apr 1998 20:32:46 EDT An open invite to all fellow Zorn list members, my solo bass improv project (Crib) will make its NY debut on Thurs. April 23rd @ Knitting Factory/Alter Knit @ 9pm. It will be solo plus a duet w/ drummer Tom Surgal (of Thurston Moore, Arthur Doyle, Charles Gayle etc.) **Plus, i think Zorn plays the same night at the Knit's Old Office space at 8pm....so stop on by afterwards! Thanks. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Theatre of musical optics Date: 16 Apr 1998 19:40:17 PDT How did you get this information, even? The only place I remember reading about T.O.M.O. was somewhere in the nest of Zornfest 93 reviews located somewhere on the net. And I didn't remember anything like the below stuff. > >I have some questions abaout Zorns Thetre of musical optics.... > >I would be happy if any of you goys and gals could answer these...: > >1. How was the objeckts highlighted on the grid....? >(I have a theory abaout spotlights being used on each grid to light up th= >e >objects in piece......) >2. How did time get out of the music? >3. How does "Fidel" and "Caf=E9 wha?" help to point towards the answer of >what remains after both time and sound is taken away from a musical >performance? > >Anybody? > >Roger > >- > > ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: re: merzbow Date: 16 Apr 1998 20:28:14 PDT >On Thu, 16 Apr 1998 14:40:38 -0400 "Simon Thibaudeau" wrote: >> >> Does anybody know where to start with Merzbow? There is so much and I = >> don't know where to start. Any suggestion > >If I were you, I would wait for the 50xCD set :-). > > Patrice. Is it not true that Merzbow has a forthcoming Tzadik (Avant?) release? That makes it more than topical. And where is this 50disc release coming from (label, release date, etc), or is this a joke? I, too, would be interested in som Merz-opinions, and maybe even descriptions and noise-ometer readings. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com> Subject: re: merzbow Date: 16 Apr 1998 21:07:47 -0700 (PDT) On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Scott Handley wrote: > Is it not true that Merzbow has a forthcoming Tzadik (Avant?) > release? that's what someone mentioned, but the Tzadik web site has no information to corroborate. however, new Ruins (rubbing hands together) and Death Praxis discs are due this month. > That makes it more than topical. And where is this 50disc > release > coming from (label, release date, etc), or is this a joke? no joke. Extreme (Australia) has been working on a 50 CD set for almost two years now. their website says it should have been released this past March, but last i had heard, it's still not yet available. http://www.xtr.com/extreme/ hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: merzbow Date: 16 Apr 1998 23:53:35 -0400 SUGAR in their vitamins? wrote: > > On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Scott Handley wrote: > > > Is it not true that Merzbow has a forthcoming Tzadik (Avant?) > > release? > > that's what someone mentioned, > but the Tzadik web site has > no information to corroborate. > however, new Ruins (rubbing hands > together) and Death Praxis > discs are due this month. I've seen it in ink in an upcoming release catalog at a music store my friend works at. It had all the upcoming Tzadik releases (Merzbow, Anthony Coleman & Selfhaters, non-western named electronic composer) but with no mention of Ruins or Death Praxis... It's been a while since tzadik.com has been updated though. That lunatic fringe disc by Dion Mcgregor slated to go along with the Lurie/Circle Maker/Lucas batch never came out either... -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: soviet/russian improv Date: 16 Apr 1998 21:25:07 PDT Something I can't remember seeing discussed on this list is the apparently-fertile Russian/Soviet/Eastern-bloc music of the past, say twenty-odd years. Maybe it's because most of you know about as little as I do about it all. Leo Records had to SMUGGLE shit out and release it with disclaimers (basically implying, for the sake of the artists, that they had STOLEN the tapes). Some records I'm interested in investing-in include: *Anything by Ganelin/Ganelin Trio *8 CD Soviet Eighties box set *4 CD Sergey Kuryokhin box *4 CD Soviet Jazz Festival: CONSPIRACY box, 1989 *etc. (I picked the famous stuff) I'd appreciate suggestions and comments and new names, and info about other releases, of course. And feel free to e.mail me privately unless you think it would be of interest to the list. Thanks! Scott ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: El Kabong <perna8601@mail.cc.duq.edu> Subject: re: merzbow Date: 17 Apr 1998 00:26:26 -0400 (EDT) merzbow has an album titled "1930" to be released on tzadik on may 19th. also in may: "Psycho Acoustic" by Tetsu Ionue and a new selfhaters disc. in april there's going to be a disc called "self-indulgent music" by the horse cock kids and (greg?) cohen. anyone know what this is all about? -a. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: mantler/cecil taylor/jcoa Date: 16 Apr 1998 21:27:56 PDT Zorn mentions this as one of the early releases which spurred his interest in free improvisation, if I'm correct; that was fom his Webster College days. 1.Is this record still available? and 2. Even if it is, I'll buy anyone's copy who doesn't like it; or I'll trade for it. Thanks, Scott ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: re: merzbow Date: 16 Apr 1998 21:51:20 PDT The box set....o my god I'm tempted, I am tempted.....I--- Does anyone have the Merzbox sampler? Would anyone be willing to send me a sampler tape of his work? I'll send blanks/post or trade tapes. Scott ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Dave Douglas "Thoughts Around Mahfouz" [was Re: mori] Date: 17 Apr 1998 01:13:33 -0400 Yves Dewulf wrote: > I think this is a big problem for electronic musicians doing live > performances (especially the more compact electronic instruments like > samplers and drum-machines): the audience only sees a person behind a > table pushing buttons on a machine Reminds me of Braxton's "myth of the sweaty brow" wherein he posits that = in order to be perceived as doing something meaningful and difficult one mus= t work up a sweat. Also precisely the reason Eno took to dressing up in la= m=E9 and huge feather boas with Roxy Music. Ikue is an amazing artist, and I can't imagine wishing to hear her behind= a conventional kit... that's not what she does. But she's contributed in a serious and beautiiful way to every instance in which I've heard her, including last night at Roulette with the premiere of Dave Douglas's late= st concept, "Thoughts Around Mahfouz," featuring DD on occasional trumpet, t= wo cassette decks, CD player, effect pedals, antiquated beat box and melodic= a, Jamie Saft on vintage keyboards, sampler and lap slide guitar, Kenny Wollesen on drums, percussion, pipes, plinks, planks and plonks, and Ikue using her regular arsenal. "We've decided to move into Roulette," said Dave at the beginning. "We've got more stuff here than at home. The project was inspired by an Egyptian novelist. During the three piece= s played (the first an hour, the second 30-plus minutes, the third about 10 minutes) the quartet touched on Egyptian modalities, noise, longs stretch= es of darkish ambiance, startling crashes, whirling percussion dervshes, Tin= y Bell-style tight unison passages with Jamie Saft's sampler or Fender Rhod= es subbing for Shepik's role (on a few occasions Saft played lines sampled from Dave's sound but transposed down to tuba range, synched so tightly that at first I'd thought Dave was just playing through a splitter of som= e sort , snatches of found music and voice, the occasional spectre of Miles (perhaps inevitable when playing trumpet through effects pedals, but not unwelcome), chance processes, and a lot of other things I'm forgetting about probably -- it was a hell of a lot to absorb. Dave played trumpet infrequently but was his reliably fine self when he did. Sometimes he would just play a note or two and then fool around wit= h the sound electronically. One particularly interesting section found him disassembling his trumpet literally and making noises blowing through various holes and valves. Jamie Saft is a terrific keyboardist who manag= es to sound very modern and at the same time nostalgic... the only thing missing from his arsenal was his Clavinet. Kenny Wollesen was everything the music needed... very loud and thundrous sometimes, very soft and quie= t at others. His playing had a welcome airiness; every note was picked and placed deliberately and he would frequently stop on his way to playing a note and choose to omit it for the effect of the interruption instead. A= nd Ikue just did what she does, and added wonderful things to a bewildering stew. Frequently, given the random sounding drop-ins by voices and prerecorded music, not to mention the presence of Mori and the sound of Saft's slide guitar, I was often reminded of some of the more dense and transitional music of Zorn's late '80s music... some things here reminded me of bits, snippets, really, of "The Big Gundown," "Spillane" and "Godard." This is not to say that Dave was copying Zorn in specific, but rather that my ear= s, always seeking familar sounds as a base from which to absorb the unfamila= r, lit upon occasional musical textures that I had first heard in the Zorn records mentioned. Dave's bringing this group to the Knitting Factory's Old Office May 8-10. I'll be there to see how it develops... But damn, what a high point fro= m which to begin. Were any other listers besides David Newgarden there? Brian? Sated, Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com [who was here making typing noises on other subjects last night but couldn't begin to elaborate on the "Mahfouz" music well enough to post anything...] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Cecil Taylor questions Date: 17 Apr 1998 01:26:01 -0400 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > Another glaring gap in my collection. When they came out, I figured > I'd get most of them eventually, but to date have only purchased two: > 'The Hearth' with Evan Parker and Tristan Honsinger which is pretty > nice and 'Alms/Tiergarten/Spree' with the orchestra which is superb.I > understand the disc w/Bailey is fine (as might be expected) with Derek > being the musician in this series who most 'bent' CT towards his > style. Personally, I'm very curious about the duet with Louis Moholo. > Anyone? The Moholo duo is disappointing in my opinion. They just don't ever really connect. I, too, always thought I'd get around to buying all of these and still may; a single CD sampler issued with a recent issue of the Italian jazz magzine Musica Jazz included samples of many of the CT FMPs I hadn't heard and they all sounded fine, but it's hard to tell with so little context. I own and endorse the Bailey and the Parker/Honsinger, as well as one I've not yet purchased but have heard in its entirety, the Han Bennink. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Cecil Taylor reissues Date: 17 Apr 1998 01:46:07 -0400 Tom Sedlak wrote: > Furthermore, in the past year Black Lion has reissued the "Great Paris > Concert." Does this have any overlap? No, the "Great Paris Concert" is a pretty fascinating session I've seen around for years on a variety of labels. It's also been called "Student Studies." The date is Nov. 30, 1966, the band is CT, Lyons, Cyrille and Alan Silva, and the disc, like so much Black Lion product, is mastered from a not fabulous vinyl LP. In addition, the recording is overly reverberant and tends to distort. I continue to hang on to it because much of the music is fascinating and quite unique, especially the percussive poetry of "Amplitude," complete with tubular bells and timpani. It's worth a listen if you can get it cheap. > Anyone know if this is an abridged disc of the > original Freedom double LP and Revenant double CD or whether these are > really alternate unissued takes? "Trance" is one disc of the two that make up "Nefertiti," unscrupulously foisted onto the U.S. market after Revenant was made to cough up major bucks for licensing rights. And having seen but not heard it I'd be willing to bet that it's made from the same cheap crappy DAT dub of a vinyl LP that was furnished initially to Revenant, who happily wouldn't settle for it and demanded a better source. I'd bet further that there are no bonus tracks. D.A. Music is a bad, nasty, slag-eared bunch when it comes to quality control, and it's a shame they own so many great recordings of the Freedom era. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Cecil Taylor, "Amplitude," _The Great Paris Concert_ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: mantler/cecil taylor/jcoa Date: 17 Apr 1998 01:59:17 -0400 Scott Handley wrote: > Zorn mentions this as one of the early releases which spurred his > interest in free improvisation, if I'm correct; that was fom his Webster > College days. > > 1.Is this record still available? and > 2. Even if it is, I'll buy anyone's copy who doesn't like it; or I'll > trade for it. It is available on a single CD on the JCOA label, released via ECM, catalog number 78118-23401-2. No, it's not an ECM recording, but the connection runs from JCOA via Bley and Mantler to Watt Works and from there to ECM, who got it issued. I'll be keeping mine, thanks... :-) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Chavez <pmchavez@earthlink.net> Subject: Recent goodies Date: 17 Apr 1998 02:16:08 -0500 Just bought two Miles Davis releases: Dark Magus and Live Evil. Both are stunning and beautiful releases... however, can't figure out why Dark Magus was a Japanese only release for so long. I am blown away on the bands Miles uses for these releases as the music is heavy funk with lots of freeblowing movements. I think of prime Throbbing Gristle when I have these on as possible points of influence. Maybe? Possibly? Someone had mentioned buying Pangaea. What's this one like? Paul - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be> Subject: Re: Dave Douglas "Thoughts Around Mahfouz" [was Re: mori] Date: 17 Apr 1998 10:25:37 +0200 >The project was inspired by an Egyptian novelist. During the three pieces >played (the first an hour, the second 30-plus minutes, the third about 10 >minutes) the quartet touched on Egyptian modalities, noise, longs stretches >of darkish ambiance, startling crashes, whirling percussion dervshes, Tiny >Bell-style tight unison passages with Jamie Saft's sampler or Fender Rhodes >subbing for Shepik's role (on a few occasions Saft played lines sampled >from Dave's sound but transposed down to tuba range, synched so tightly >that at first I'd thought Dave was just playing through a splitter of some >... Are you sure this was not an effect by Dave ? I ask this because he was doing the same thing (trumpet doubled by a pitched down version of it, sounding like a tuba or a trombone) in a Douglas/Bennink -duo performance some months ago, and there was no Jamie Saft there to provide this effect. I must say I was completely blown away by the electric Dave Douglas at that gig, amazing ! I hope he will put out more of this electric stuff soon. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alister Shew <alby@midnite.net.au> Subject: David S. Ware Quartet Date: 17 Apr 1998 18:32:29 +1000 I'm looking for some advice on the David S. Ware Quartet. I bought "Godspelized" recently and like it a lot - any recommendations on the group's other records? Thanks Al - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: mantler/cecil taylor/jcoa Date: 17 Apr 1998 08:39:37 -0500 Steve Smith wrote: >It is available on a single CD on the JCOA label, released via ECM, catalog >number 78118-23401-2. No, it's not an ECM recording, but the connection >runs from JCOA via Bley and Mantler to Watt Works and from there to ECM, >who got it issued. One minor quibble with the CD re-issue (which, nonetheless, is one of THE essential records of the last 30 or more years--incredible start to finish): the tracks are slightly rearranged, placing the Pharaoh Sanders piece after the Swallow/Rudd one, abutting the two Taylor forays. I'm not sure, but there might be a law against having two tracks containing this much energy placed back-to-back on disc. In any case, the dramatic flow of the original is somewhat compromised. >I'll be keeping mine, thanks... :-) Yeah, sorry Scott, me too, vinyl and disc. But the disc's not too hard to come by. It's arguable that none of the soloists involved (Cherry, Barbieri, Coryell (!), Sanders, Swallow, Rudd and Taylor) have ever sounded much better than they do here. And Mantler, unfortunately, has never again come close to this level (with the possible exception of '13'). FWIW and IMHO, the only composer working in this general arena who has produced things of comparable quality recently has been Barry Guy, especially his 'Theoria'. Any other nominees? Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fate@telepath.com (Jon Mooneyham) Subject: Miles' Throbbing Gristle (was Re: Recent goodies) Date: 17 Apr 1998 09:17:45 -0500 >Just bought two Miles Davis releases: > >Dark Magus and Live Evil. > >Both are stunning and beautiful releases... however, can't figure out >why Dark Magus was a Japanese only release for so long. I am blown away >on the bands Miles uses for these releases as the music is heavy funk >with lots of freeblowing movements. I think of prime Throbbing Gristle >when I have these on as possible points of influence. Maybe? Possibly? > >Paul If you're saying Miles was an influence on TG - sure, it's possible, but as TG were not chops-oriented and mostly collective in their approach, Cosey's processed cornet floating over walls of noise is more a happy coincidence than a measured influence, I think... BUT, if you're saying TG influenced Miles (as the sentence reads), that's hilarious, insane, and impossible (timeline-wise) - congrats for making me laugh before my first coffee this morning! There is a Miles influence on Pere Ubu, though - check "The Art of Walking"... Yours, Jon M. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: Dave Douglas "Thoughts Around Mahfouz" [was Re: mori] Date: 17 Apr 1998 10:25:52 -0400 (EDT) On Fri, 17 Apr 1998, Steve Smith wrote: > Yves Dewulf wrote: > > > I think this is a big problem for electronic musicians doing live > > performances (especially the more compact electronic instruments like > > samplers and drum-machines): the audience only sees a person behind a > > table pushing buttons on a machine > > Reminds me of Braxton's "myth of the sweaty brow" wherein he posits that in > order to be perceived as doing something meaningful and difficult one must > work up a sweat. > > Ikue is an amazing artist, and I can't imagine wishing to hear her behind a > conventional kit... that's not what she does. lest you all misunderstand me, i never meant to imply that mori's playing didn't appeal to me on a particular evening because of her lack of stage motion or gesticulation. all i meant to say was that i wasn't as impressed with her improvisations as i was with bailey's and zorn's. i also don't think that there's anything wrong with wanting to hear her on a kit anymore than it would be wrong to want to hear zorn play tenor or soprano. i think it would be interesting. personally, i like dna better than anything those guys have done subsequently, but that's probably the punk rocker in me talking. i tend to only post positive comments on lists because sometimes fans will take such umbrage when a stranger doesn't like one of their favorite musicians. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Theatre of musical optics Date: 17 Apr 1998 07:58:02 -0700 On Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:40:17 PDT "Scott Handley" wrote: > > How did you get this information, even? The only place I remember > reading about T.O.M.O. was somewhere in the nest of Zornfest 93 reviews > located somewhere on the net. And I didn't remember anything like the > below stuff. I still have the flyer that Zorn put out for these events. I even might be able to write it down if anybody is interested. Patrice. > > > >I have some questions abaout Zorns Thetre of musical optics.... > > > >I would be happy if any of you goys and gals could answer these...: > > > >1. How was the objeckts highlighted on the grid....? > >(I have a theory abaout spotlights being used on each grid to light up > th= > >e > >objects in piece......) > >2. How did time get out of the music? > >3. How does "Fidel" and "Caf=E9 wha?" help to point towards the answer > of > >what remains after both time and sound is taken away from a musical > >performance? > > > >Anybody? > > > >Roger > > > >- > > > > > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Barry Guy/LCJO (was re: cecil taylor/JCOA) Date: 17 Apr 1998 08:23:35 PDT > > FWIW and IMHO, the only composer working in this general arena who has > produced things of comparable quality recently has been Barry Guy, > especially his 'Theoria'. Any other nominees? > > Brian Olewnick B. OLEWICK IS RIGHT (an essay without indentation by S. Handley) I haven't heard JCOA (my chops are drooly, yes...yes), but I did recently purchase Barry Guy/LCJO PORTRAITS, a 2CD set from the same multiform/multi-tiered, composition/free-improv approach (I use "same" and "approach" in the same way one might say a dump truck and a tank are similar), as well as the Tony Oxley Celebration Orchestra, which I was a little bit disappointed by. [After hearing Joe McPhee do solo trumpet, Bill Dixon's stuff (here, by the way----I haven't heard the highly-touted VADE MECUM but hope to soon) just seems like a one-trick pony.] PORTRAITS was incredible, though, and I'd recommend it to anybody; though on the long side, it seems like a neat idea, well-executed, because in addition to a titanic all-star big-band (or "large-ensemble", if you prefer), within that group you have the occasional (and intentional) surfacing of three or four long-performing ensembles such as ISKA 1903 and the Parker/Guy/Lytton trio. Plus, the whole album begins with the most bone-chilling solo tenor playing I've heard from Evan Parker; haven't felt that way hearing him on tenor since hearing the 1969 Brotzmann album NIPPLES. How does THEORIA, or ODE, or any of the other LCJO albums compare to PORTRAITS? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Langvik" <tjohansen@vf.telia.no> Subject: Re: Theatre of musical optics Date: 17 Apr 1998 17:31:14 +0200 > On Thu, 16 Apr 1998 15:01:09 -0500 (CDT) "Joseph S. Zitt" wrote: > > > > That's a fascinating bunch of questions -- but what are you asking about? > > Is the theatre of musical optics something other than just a publishing > > company? > > It is much more than that! Zorn was involved in some kind of minimal > theatre in the late '70s (a consequence, I guess, of frequenting artists like > Foreman and Smith). > > I remember that during the Zorn month at the KF, he had a couple of late > performances where he would just sit on the floor and spend the full time > just moving little objects. That piece is probably "For Jack" the latest piece I know of that Zorn has produced in the T.O.M.O. line of thought Wich is :"MUSIC HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SOUND -- MUSIC HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TIME" This info is from theTheatre of musical optics web page (it's a history lesson of sorts and I have actually mannaged to forget the address so...don't ask :-) ) Roger - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Bang on a Can and Thanks Date: 17 Apr 1998 08:44:52 -0800 John D Schonewolf writes: > I wanted to write and see what people thought about the whole Bang on a > Can Festival and their CDs. Any recommendations on where to start with > their catalogue? John, I feel you can pretty much start anywhere. Since the CDs are compilations of various pieces, they are varied in quality, good stuff and not so good stuff on each one. The approach I took was to pick out the ones with particular pieces I wanted to hear [out of the three CRI volumes and the two Sony ones]; for me that meant focussing on Tom Johnson and David Lang, and being both pleasantly surprised and also disappointed by other works on the recordings. Catch as catch can. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Recent Goodies Date: 17 Apr 1998 08:51:55 -0800 Paul Chavez writes: > Just bought two Miles Davis releases: > > Dark Magus and Live Evil. > > Both are stunning and beautiful releases... however, can't figure out > why Dark Magus was a Japanese only release for so long. I am blown away > on the bands Miles uses for these releases as the music is heavy funk > with lots of freeblowing movements. I think of prime Throbbing Gristle > when I have these on as possible points of influence. Maybe? Possibly? > > Someone had mentioned buying Pangaea. What's this one like? You don't meant to say that Throbbing Gristle influenced this music [which came before], do you? I think the other way is definitely valid, however, it does remind me of a suick spot on MTV where Lou Reed, Michelle N'Degocello [sp?], et. al. were mentioning influences like Miles Davis and Ornette Coleman, which I found pretty strange since I never hear anywhere near the level of musicianship, radical conception or even basic improvisation in their music as you can hear in Miles and Ornette. Pangea, and Agharta along with it, are a step removed from Live Evil and Dark Magus; more abstract, darker, often much darker. The band is not as flexible, I don't feel, but the music is strong. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: Barry Guy/LCJO (was re: cecil taylor/JCOA) Date: 17 Apr 1998 13:29:30 -0500 Scott Handley wrote: >I haven't heard JCOA (my chops are drooly, yes...yes), but I did >recently purchase Barry Guy/LCJO PORTRAITS, a 2CD set from the same >multiform/multi-tiered, composition/free-improv approach (I use "same" >and "approach" in the same way one might say a dump truck and a tank >are similar), as well as the Tony Oxley Celebration Orchestra, which I >was a little bit disappointed by. [After hearing Joe McPhee do solo >trumpet, Bill Dixon's stuff (here, by the way----I haven't heard the >highly-touted VADE MECUM but hope to soon) just seems like a one-trick >pony.] Mmmmm...you're treading on dangerous ground with many listeners, but...I agree! Dixon's one of those I know I'm _supposed_ to think is great, but I've yet to hear it. WKCR used to have a semi-regular program devoted to his work and, more often than not, I'd come away not overly impressed. Like you, though, I've haven't yet heard 'Vade Mecum' and have been meaning to give it a try. You're dead-on about McPhee too. For all the relatively high amount of publicity he's gotten in the last year or two, Joe remains one of the great under-appreciated players around. > PORTRAITS was incredible, though, and I'd recommend it to >anybody; >though on the long side, it seems like a neat idea, >well-executed, >because in addition to a titanic all-star big-band (or >"large-ensemble", if you prefer), within that group you have the >occasional (and intentional) surfacing of three or four long-performing >ensembles such as ISKA 1903 and the Parker/Guy/Lytton trio. Plus, the >whole album begins with the most bone-chilling solo tenor playing I've >heard from Evan Parker; haven't felt that way hearing him on tenor >since hearing the 1969 Brotzmann album NIPPLES. >How does THEORIA, or ODE, or any of the other LCJO albums compare to >PORTRAITS? Actually, PORTRAITS is the one (?) large-scale Guy work I haven't gotten to. As I posted earlier, I think THEORIA is incredible; it absolutely floored me when I first heard it about a year ago. HARMOS is almost as good. The recent THREE PIECES FOR ORCHESTRA is very fine as are ODE (from 1972) and the ZURICH CONCERTS (in which the LJCO performs pieces by Guy and Braxton). All of these are on Intakt. Last year's WITCH GONG GAME II/10 (on Maya) seems to me somewhat less successful, though not bad. Like early Mantler, Guy is able to work that odd area between rich, sonorous, post-Romantic orchestral writing and free improv. If Frederic Rzewski wrote for orchestra, perhaps he'd be in the same ballpark--man, I'd love to hear that (meanwhile, I'll be quite content to hear z-lister Drury's performance of THE PEOPLE UNITED... this evening!). Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sfunk@pop.adn.com (Stephen Funk) Subject: Re: Recent goodies Date: 17 Apr 1998 10:08:14 -1000 >Just bought two Miles Davis releases: > >Dark Magus and Live Evil. > >Someone had mentioned buying Pangaea. What's this one like? > Definitely get it, and while you're at the store, get Agartha (Argatha? Can never remember the spelling) too. Both were concerts recorded on the same day, A. in the afternoon, P. in the eve, live in Japan. I think the best way to listen to these is to reserve about 3 hours and listen to all four discs of A. and P. in a row. A mind-blowing experience. If there ever existed an truly epic jam session in geologic terms, this is it. Keep the lights low and the phone off the hook. If you're into Dark Magus (as I am, and would rather have that record over Bitches Brew any day of the week), you will not be disappointed. - Steve *** *** *** Steve Funk (sfunk@pop.adn.com) Anchorage, AK USA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Theatre of Musical Optics Date: 17 Apr 1998 14:29:06 -0400 (EDT) I read an article about this and some other parts of Zorn's history in the early years- it was in a book of interviews with modern composers that I checked out from my school's music library. I suppose I should get the name of the book- actually there were two. He taled about the relationship between these little objects and his game pieces, and about playing concerts for audiences of 2-4 people in his apt. P.S. I saw Noah Howard last night, he played to an audience of about 25 in the student union building. Bobby Few (piano) didn't show up, and a really ridiculous poet sat in for three songs while they played some boring funk vamps, but the rest was amazing. They played Ole (Coltrane) and some other stuff that ROCKED. Wilbur Morris is a monster on the bass. I don't know how they get up for such shows, all that traveling and no turnout. He's got some recent albums on Cadence and CIMP by the way. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: DA music Date: 17 Apr 1998 14:36:51 -0400 (EDT) I'm glad to know there is a difference between the nefertiti version on Revenant and the cheaper Black Lion relaease since I've got the revenant one. But I have a question about Julius Hemphill reissues. I have Reflections, formerly Coon Bidness. They misspelled some names which doesn't bother me so much, but there is a strange dropout that occurs during the the written part of "The Hard Blues". Is this just an effect of orchestration i.e. does it occur on the record. Also, is Dogon A.D. available? I read that both were out of print (Coon... and Dogon) but since I found this I wonder if the other one's out there. I'm looking forward to Screwgun's reissue(s) of his stuff. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: sonny simmons / sonny murray tour Date: 17 Apr 1998 15:13:23 -0400 (EDT) did someone mention this on the zorn list? i'm trying to find out information for a possible booking. thanks in advance, b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re:Sorry to spam..... Date: 16 Apr 1998 22:29:20 UT I don't know about anyone else, but I don't get any email addresses with these. So I can't mail recommendations or requests or make bids until I happen to get my digest copy (yes I subscribe to both) and look it up. Other people don't seem to have this problem, I guess, but I can't reply to anyone but the list. So, please, if you're asking for private mail from members of the list, please include your private email address so's I can send some. Thanks, PeterR ____________________Reply Separator____________________ Author: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Hello list-eners..... I have about 75 CD's to get rid of cheap...everything from Debbie Gibson to Painkiller. Email me privately for a list..... Dale. - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrick Stockton" <sheepherder@worldnet.att.net> Subject: merzbow? Date: 17 Apr 1998 17:30:47 -0700 sorry to have to plead ignorance on the newsgroup, but who is merzbow and what are they all about. sorry for the wasted space.... oh and zony mash played here in portland last night. they were opening for DJ Gravy, or the Grey Boy All-Stars. i didnt stay for either band so im not sure who was headlining..... anyway, any info on these two? thanks, patrick in portland - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Given <dlgiven@julian.uwo.ca> Subject: Barry Guy/LJCO and Bill Dixon Date: 17 Apr 1998 22:15:32 +0100 Scott Handley and Brian Olewnick wrote: >>I haven't heard JCOA (my chops are drooly, yes...yes), but I did >>recently purchase Barry Guy/LCJO PORTRAITS, a 2CD set from the same >>multiform/multi-tiered, composition/free-improv approach (I use "same" >>and "approach" in the same way one might say a dump truck and a tank >>are similar), as well as the Tony Oxley Celebration Orchestra, which I >>was a little bit disappointed by. [After hearing Joe McPhee do solo >>trumpet, Bill Dixon's stuff (here, by the way----I haven't heard the >>highly-touted VADE MECUM but hope to soon) just seems like a one-trick >>pony.] >Mmmmm...you're treading on dangerous ground with many listeners, but...I >agree! Dixon's one of those I know I'm _supposed_ to think is great, but >I've yet to hear it. WKCR used to have a semi-regular program devoted to >his work and, more often than not, I'd come away not overly impressed. >Like you, though, I've haven't yet heard 'Vade Mecum' and have been >meaning to give it a try. You're dead-on about McPhee too. For all the >relatively high amount of publicity he's gotten in the last year or two, >Joe remains one of the great under-appreciated players around. The Oxley disc is on my want list, so I don't know what Dixon's contribution is to it. I do, however, have both volumes of Vade Mecum and love them. I find Dixon quite interesting on these, but highlight is the overall sound. There are times when I am unsure just who is doing what. Though you may not like Dixon as a player, I think that these discs may shed new light in him as a composer/conceptualist. >> PORTRAITS was incredible, though, and I'd recommend it to >anybody; >>though on the long side, it seems like a neat idea, >well-executed, >>because in addition to a titanic all-star big-band (or >>"large-ensemble", if you prefer), within that group you have the >>occasional (and intentional) surfacing of three or four long-performing >>ensembles such as ISKA 1903 and the Parker/Guy/Lytton trio. Plus, the >>whole album begins with the most bone-chilling solo tenor playing I've >>heard from Evan Parker; haven't felt that way hearing him on tenor >>since hearing the 1969 Brotzmann album NIPPLES. >How does THEORIA, or ODE, or any of the other LCJO albums compare to >PORTRAITS? >Actually, PORTRAITS is the one (?) large-scale Guy work I haven't >gotten to. As I posted earlier, I think THEORIA is incredible; it >absolutely floored me when I first heard it about a year ago. HARMOS >is almost as good. The recent THREE PIECES FOR ORCHESTRA is very fine >as are ODE (from 1972) and the ZURICH CONCERTS (in which the LJCO >performs pieces by Guy and Braxton). All of these are on Intakt. Last >year's WITCH GONG GAME II/10 (on Maya) seems to me somewhat less >successful, though not bad. I don't have Witch Gong Game; is it the one from Vancouver with the west coast players? This might explain its lack of success, as Guy writes much of his material specifically for the members of LJCO, much like Ellington composed for his band. The only one of the Intakt releases I don't have yet is Three Pieces, but really want it to hear how Crispell fit into the band. A friend of mine saw LJCO w/ Crispell performing Theoria (originally written for Irene Schweizer) a few years ago and was blown away. As for the others, Zurich Concerts is my least favourite, even though I am a huge Braxton fan. I don't think it really worked, but maybe it was for the same reason as WGG doesn't, it just needed more work. I wouldn't recommend Ode as a first place to start. It is great, but stylistically different; much more rough(?) than the later pieces. Some of the composed parts of Harmos are stunningly beautiful. Theoria is my favorite though. On a semi related note, what do people think of Vinny Golia's large ensemble works. he seems to be working in the same territory, but not quite hitting it dead on. However, all the recordings of that band are poor quality, so maybe they sound much better live. Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phil Plencner <plencner@lnd.com> Subject: Theater of Musical Optics Date: 17 Apr 1998 21:22:56 -0500 > Roger Langvik wrote: > Wich is :"MUSIC HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SOUND -- > MUSIC HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH TIME" > > This info is from theTheatre of musical optics web page (it's a history > lesson of sorts and I have actually mannaged to forget the address > so...don't ask :-) ) > > Roger > That web page address is: http://www.nwu.edu/jazz/performance/zornfest/zorn-ToMO.html Phil - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@UVic.CA> Subject: jco Date: 17 Apr 1998 23:16:40 -0700 (PDT) Speaking of JCOA, is the "Jazz Composers Orchestra" album (the one with a track featuring Pharoah Sanders at maximum intensity) still available? If so, who distributes it (in Canada)? Someone played it for me a few years ago (on vinyl) but I've never seen it for sale. Cappy D'Angelo Student at Law - Intellectual Property Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion Victoria, B.C., CANADA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> Subject: Re: Barry Guy/LJCO and Bill Dixon Date: 18 Apr 1998 08:58:06 -0400 Dan Given wrote: > I don't have Witch Gong Game; is it the one from Vancouver with the west > coast players? Yes it is and you're probably right, that could explain the less-than-inspired sound of the session. > This might explain its lack of success, as Guy writes much > of his material specifically for the members of LJCO, much like Ellington > composed for his band. The only one of the Intakt releases I don't have > yet is Three Pieces, but really want it to hear how Crispell fit into the > band. A friend of mine saw LJCO w/ Crispell performing Theoria (originally > written for Irene Schweizer) a few years ago and was blown away. IMHO, the piece with Crispell and the straight orchestra one work wonderfully, fitting in nicely with the best of Guy's recent work. The track with Maggie Nichols I find a bit more problematic, but I admit to being ill at ease with many free vocalists. > As for > the others, Zurich Concerts is my least favourite, even though I am a huge > Braxton fan. I don't think it really worked, but maybe it was for the same > reason as WGG doesn't, it just needed more work. I wouldn't recommend Ode > as a first place to start. It is great, but stylistically different; much > more rough(?) than the later pieces. Some of the composed parts of Harmos > are stunningly beautiful. Theoria is my favorite though. > > On a semi related note, what do people think of Vinny Golia's large > ensemble works. he seems to be working in the same territory, but not > quite hitting it dead on. However, all the recordings of that band are > poor quality, so maybe they sound much better live. Yeah, though I've never caught him live, I've checked in on his work off and on for around twenty years and have never heard anything particularly compelling. If anyone would care to recommend any large-ensemble stuff of his they think is great, please do. I had high expectations for last year's trio w/ George Lewis and Bertram Turetsky but was somewhat disappointed (though it garnered great reviews in some quarters). Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave" <torturegarden@mailexcite.com> Subject: Wanted: Torture Garden vinyl Date: 18 Apr 1998 09:11:46 -0700 I am in need of a copy of Torture Garden on vinyl. Must be in VG+ or better condition. I don't know what it is worth, but can trade for a copy of "Black Box" or pay cash. E-mail me privately as not to clutter the list. Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Cecil Taylor in Berlin Date: 18 Apr 1998 09:26:25 -0800 Now that I'm home I'm reviewing the Cecil Taylor in Berlin recordings that have been discussed and wanted to mention my own subjective take on what are the best of a truly indispensable bunch: "Spots, Circles and Fantasy" w/Han Bennink "Pleistozean Mit Wasser" w/Derek Bailey. This is really superb, surprising at first because there is no piano for a long while at the start, Taylor chanting while Bailey plays, and it works great. "Leaf Palm Hand" w/Tony Oxley. If you know the Feel Trio, you know how these two play together. "Erzulie Maketh Scent" solo. On par with the best later solo recordings like Garden and For Olim. "Regalia" w/Paul Lovens. "Alms/Tiergarten (Spree)" w/orchestra. The others include Gunter Sommer, Louis Moholo and Honsinger/Parker, which are all fine but don't stand out as much as the ones I've listed, IMO. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> Subject: Cecil Taylor question Date: 18 Apr 1998 12:46:30 -0400 I recently rediscovered the insert in the sleeve of the Unit Core release of SPRING OF TWO BLUE-J'S. It mentions two pending releases (including cover shots): INDENT II (solo, I think, from the same concert as INDENT) and CECIL TAYLOR UNIT CORE ENSEMBLE, also recorded at Antioch with an ensemble of student musicians. As far as I know, neither has ever seen the light of day. Anyone out there know otherwise? Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Caulfield Bivins <jbivins@indiana.edu> Subject: David S. Ware Date: 18 Apr 1998 13:51:50 -0500 (EST) I think this quartet is one of the best working groups of the decade, and you can't really go wrong with any purchase. That having been said, I'd snap up the other releases on DIW ("Earthquation", "Flight of i", "Third Ear Recitation") before they go out of print. Jason Bivins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Chavez <pmchavez@earthlink.net> Subject: Goodies = Miles + Throbbing Date: 18 Apr 1998 15:09:23 -0500 TG influenced by Miles my friends (see 20 Jazz Funk Greats) ... not the other way around. Excuse the confusion. As for Pangea and Agharta, they are next on my list. Paul - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tricky88@earthlink.net Subject: a late 20-odd Date: 18 Apr 1998 13:10:16 -0700 LATE: But considering the list=92s reactions to these, I doubt anyone wil= l mind. I WAS pissed b/c this blew up the traffic on the list; I=92m just now catching up and still have 25 digests to get through. I was ignoring the idea, but something about Doug McKay=92s list in particular made me realize this has nothing to do with BEST records, but the things it would be oh so difficult to live without. In my case these are the records that on first listen destroyed my perception of a genre, or simply turned my life upside-down. The first chord of each floods my memory. No order... - Mark Mauer Tappa Zukie - In Dub - Blood & Fire (Some of the most riveting 70s dub Ive heard) Guided By Voices - Under the Bushes, Under the Stars - Matador=20 (Sincere? as a heart attack.) Pixies - Doolittle - 4AD=20 Pavement - Slanted & Enchanted - Matador (every song shoulda been a Top 40 hit) John Zorn - Elegy - Eva / 99 Records (NOT an obligatory choice, though after hearing David Slusser=92s amazing disc, I think he should get co-billing on this one.) Harris / Laswell - Sominic Flux - Subharmonic (Spookiest thing Ive ever heard) Alec Empire - Generation Star Wars - Mille Plateaux (Spookiest thing with beats Ive ever heard) Replacements - Pleased to Meet Me - Reprise Didjits - Hey Judester - Touch & Go (In concert they had Satan introduce them) Wonder Stuff - Hup! - PLG (Joyous heartbreaks) Manic Street Preachers - Generation Terrorists (UK 18 song edition) - Sony (No Aplogies for this one, it's playing as I write this) Underworld - Second Toughest in the Infants - Wax Trax! Wesley Willis - Fireman Rick - Wesley Willis Records (Bought from Wesley at Delilah's: Mostly to keep him from headbutting my girlfriend and me) Las Vegas Grind - various artists - Crypt (FILTHY 50s rock and roll. Thank God Crypt rescued these songs) Wilco - Being There - Reprise (The only double CD!)=20 Swamp Terrorists - Grim Stroke Disease - Machinery (The loudest record I'd ever heard at the time)=20 Miles Davis - In Person Saturday Night Vol. 2 - Columbia (Opened up a whole new world for me) Big Star - Third / Sister Lovers - Ryko (Should be playing at my funeral) REM - Reckoning - IRS=20 American Music Club - Everclear - Alias Bauhaus - Press the Eject, Give me the Tape - Beggars Banquet Sinead O=92Connor - Lion and The Cobra - Chrysalis (heartbreaking) Robyn Hitchcock - I Often Dream of Trains - Midnight Fish Lutefisk - Deliver from Porcelin: Theme and Variations - Bong Load (Folks into Mr. Bungle might find this band of real interest: Other album is called Burn in Hell Fuckers) Screamin Jay Hawkins - Voodoo Jive - Rhino Sorely Missing: Ministry, Nirvana, Wedding Present, Beck, Prince, most Digital Hardcore, Mo Wax and Tzadik recrods, Birthday Party, Beastie Boys, Ink Spots, World Party, Tom Waits, Nick Drake, Aphex Twin, Lou Barlow, Swans, Impala, Coltrane, and the list goes on. Also videos of Withnail & I, Naked and Pee-Wee=92s Big Adventure Books: Dictionary of the Khazars, Nine Stories, and any William T. Vollman. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Howie Voigt <buurin@athenet.net> Subject: Torture Garden Vinyl/Painkiller Date: 18 Apr 1998 18:07:34 -0500 Dave wrote: > > I am in need of a copy of Torture Garden on vinyl. Must be > in VG+ or better condition. I don't know what it is worth, but can > trade for a copy of "Black Box" or pay cash. E-mail me privately > as not to clutter the list. I am not willing to sell mine but I know someone in the UK who has one for sale. I believe it is brand new and in very good condition but she wants 15pounds for it. This is the Earache UK release, a very nice looking gatefold LP. The US shimmy disc(?) release might be cheaper but I don't know where to look for one. I have seen one once and I believe this version is gatefold as well. If you, or anyone is interested mail me for her email address. I have dealt with her many times before, and although expensive, she is very reliable. Finally, I have two Painkiller CDs I would like to trade: Rituals Live in Japan Toy's Factory Records TFCK-88627 Execution Ground 3CD Toy's Factory Records TFCK-88731~3 I am willing to trade for CDs/Vinyl by the following bands: Univers Zero Shub-Niggurath (the prog. band) Anglagard Landberk Osamu Kitajima (earlier recordings) Anekdoten ...other stuff you think I might like based on this Or 80's metal such as: (especially vinyl, but CD is good too:) Possessed Candlemass Sodom Destruction Dark Angel Kreator (Flag of Hate MLP only) Celtic Frost Bathory ...other bands, tell me what you have/can get I will also consider trades for earlier and harder to find modern Death Metal stuff. For example between '88-'93, especially 7"s and demos. Cheers! Howie (buurin@athenet.net) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Greg Cohen - Way Low Date: 18 Apr 1998 18:26:56 -0500 I know someone on this list is going to pick this up (if it's not already owned) so I'll put in a request for a review. Thanks, Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Paraphrase Date: 19 Apr 1998 01:45:01 -0400 I caught Paraphrase last night at the Emanuel Church in Boston. I've been a fan of Tim Berne for quite a while now (ever since I heard 'Snactified Dreams' which is still my favorite) so I was super-excited to be there after skipping all of my classes on Friday trying to organize the trip. It was, shall I say, intimate (with only 25 or so people there) and I was right up close. I thought the show was very good. I think Berne's real strength is in his composing so Paraphrase being a free improv unit, that was obviously just not there. There's a lot of Berne's composing style in his improvised lines though. I thought Tom Rainey was the stand-out. It's amazing the amount of intensity he can mull up using brushes while remaining relatively soft. He and Drew Gress had some pretty great interactions. Good show! By the way, I found two Berne JMT discs at the Tower Records in Cambridge the next morning - Miniature 'I Can't Put my Finger On It' and Caos Totale 'Nice View'. I picked both of them up (though 'Diminutive Mysteries' is still there). Anyway, for those of you still looking to find JMT stuff, I recommend a big store like Tower that has a ton in-stock. They are still out there! Good luck! -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vadim Marmer <msvadi@olive.mscc.huji.ac.il> Subject: Re: soviet/russian improv Date: 19 Apr 1998 10:17:24 +0300 (WET) i have "Catalogue" and "Poco-a-Poco" by Ganelin Trio and both records are just amazing. if you like free jazz it`s the best of this kind of music. wonderful performances, all members of the band are multi-insrumentalists, and sometimes you just can not believe that what you hear is a live trio, wonderful compositions - today Ganelin is the head of jazz department in israel musical academy. On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Scott Handley wrote: > Something I can't remember seeing discussed on this list is the > apparently-fertile Russian/Soviet/Eastern-bloc music of the past, say > twenty-odd years. Maybe it's because most of you know about as little > as I do about it all. Leo Records had to SMUGGLE shit out and release > it with disclaimers (basically implying, for the sake of the artists, > that they had STOLEN the tapes). Some records I'm interested in > investing-in include: > *Anything by Ganelin/Ganelin Trio > *8 CD Soviet Eighties box set > *4 CD Sergey Kuryokhin box > *4 CD Soviet Jazz Festival: CONSPIRACY box, 1989 > *etc. (I picked the famous stuff) > > I'd appreciate suggestions and comments and new names, and info about > other releases, of course. And feel free to e.mail me privately unless > you think it would be of interest to the list. > > Thanks! > > Scott > > > ______________________________________________________ > Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> Subject: Hat...site Date: 19 Apr 1998 09:31:29 -0400 The company originally known as Hat hut has a new web site at: www.hathut.com They're now divided into three areas: 1) Hat(now)Art--Contemporary Classical 2) Hatology--Jazz and Improvised 3) Hat noir--Uncategorizable Some of the releases, impending and recently issued, sound mouth-watering, including a recording of two of Braxton's early pieces (#'s 10 & 16) by a quintet including Jim O'Rourke and an album by the band Polwechsel, a group I've been trying to locate (to listen to) for a few years. Also in preparation, new Eskelin, Feldman's 'Atlantis', much more. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com> Subject: 2 Web sites Date: 19 Apr 1998 07:00:30 -0800 I've been working my usual seasonal gig in an office doing US income taxes returns til last week, so I'm very slowly going through the last couple of months of posts. You folks have been keeping busy. I'll try not to dredge up ancient topics that have talked out, so I'll try to get through to the most recent digests before I respond to anything. I did want to briefly point out 2 Web sites I'm involved in, though. Neither of them focuses exclusively on the topic of this list, but they both overlap our concerns here. The first is an annotated list of Web sites, greatly revised and expanded, relevant to a variety of new music topics: <http://www.artswire.org/Artswire/www/awtour/herb/index.html> The second is an online "radio" station on which several, though not all, of the weekly programs regularly present music with roots & branches in the focus of our discussions here: <http://www.antennaradio.com/> Now back to reading through a few weeks of digests. Bests, Herb Herb Levy herb@eskimo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David J. Keffer" <keffer@shell.planetc.com> Subject: Request for a review of "Weird Little Boys" Date: 19 Apr 1998 10:34:24 -0400 Hello Folks on the Zorn-list, I saw a request for a review of "Weird Little Boys" posted earlier on the list but I don't remember seeing a review. I read the quip on it on the Forced Exposure site: "Weird Little Boy is a special band project spearheaded by John Zorn and Mike Patton. A collective of artists, writers and musicians, their first CD release features the world-renowned graphics of Nayland Blake, the cutting edge writing of gay S/M writer Dennis Cooper and music by Chris Cochrane, John Zorn and members of the cult rock band Mr. Bungle. A deluxe CD-book package containing a 46 page booklet and some of the strangest music you are ever likely to hear makes this unusual collaborative meeting of 'gays' and 'straights' a must for fans of each and every member of this exciting experimental collective." But this doesn't say a thing about the music. Let's hear the thoughts of those who have heard it. Thanks. David Keffer p.s. Regarding "bargain buys", when it was first released I saw the "Parachute Boxed Set" listed for $27 on an internet cd store. I thought to myself, "Well, this must be a typo" but I decided to order it and see whether they would send it to me for $27. It took 8 weeks (it was listed as an import from Holland) but it arrived. I thought this deal was too good to be true and so I checked back at the site to see if the price was still the same, as I intended to email the zorn-list and share the secret. However, the typo had been corrected. It was now $168. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrick Stockton" <sheepherder@worldnet.att.net> Subject: avant/DIW Date: 19 Apr 1998 11:00:11 -0700 would some kind person mind explaining the nature of DIW and Avant.... are they different companies? i always assumed they were but recently i have been seeing albums credited to both labels. is one simply a distributer? Also does Zorn own or have anything to do with either in terms of business? i always thought, for some reason, that Zorn started Avant to make it easier to release stuff in Japan. but now its seems as though he has little to do with it. also i have been trying to locate catalogues for these labels and have come up empty handed. if someone knows where to find alisting of their recordings or have one themslef. i would appreciate it. feel free to answer me privately at: sheepherder@worldnet.att.net thanks patrick in portland - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ROLAND JOST <ROLAND_JOST@compuserve.com> Subject: RE: merzbow? Date: 19 Apr 1998 16:15:59 -0400 >sorry to have to plead ignorance on the newsgroup, but who is merzbow an= d what are they all about. sorry for the wasted space... thanks, patrick in portland< merzbow =3D masami akita japanese guitarist, although he's apparently also playing theremin, moog etc. very noisy stuff - john zorn hasn't done any noise compared to merzbow recommended cd's include: antimonument space metalizer mercurated there's also the 3 in 1 cd (strange concept) balance it's merzbow and ladybird it's not exactly merzbow as we know him, but a great cd nevertheless. cheers roland - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: what a pain... Date: 19 Apr 1998 13:29:32 -0700 Any idea who is the "super cool dude" who writes the News section at the KF web page? Seems to come directly out of "slacker for dummies". It was really annoying; thought for a moment it was a youth mistake (or a joke). Patrice (who hopes that it is not Michael Dorf). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: re: new goodies / AYLER Date: 19 Apr 1998 14:19:04 PDT The majority of this post is personal op. Skip to bottom for Ayler question. Old news to many of you, but what I'm really enjoying now is: Evan Parker Electroacoustic Project : TOWARDS THE MARGINS (ECM) Evan Parker + Ghost-in-the-Machine (ECM) One great example and one good example of E.P. w/very sensitive and very musical live electronic treatment (and a hell of a lot of group PLAYING while they're at it). I know the former ahs been mentioned several times already, but it's just gorgeous. Derek Bailey: AIDA (reissue: DEXTER"S CIGAR) Marc Ducret: UN CERTAIN MALAISE (Screwgun) Two solo guitar records: one acoustic, one electric, both live. Bailey might have started in R&B and jazz (like Tim Berne!), but these influences are at most completely diffuse here. It's hilarious when at a beatiful peak of ideas at the end of the first track, his watch alarm (?) goes off; after turning it off, he tries but just can't quite get back on the train, mumbling in good-humored resignation. Ducret's outing might be a little less radical, but it's fun nonetheless, with equal parts free improv, big rock chops, the occasional surprising use of (non-)amplification, and strands of Bailey, Cobain, folk-rock, and Tuck Andress ("La Mazurka"). The former album is beautiful but still deeply free, while the latter--I suppose--would be great for exposing more rock-oriented guitarists and listeners to the pleasures of improvised music. Sun Ra: HELIOCENTRIC WORLDS, vol. 1 and 2 I was a bit equivocal about Ra before I heard these ESP records, which are just great. The clatter of percussion and Armageddon trombone blasts at the beginning of vol. 1 reminded me of some Tibetan Buddhist music I heard once. 1965: and as advanvced and fascinating as any of the AACM stuff of that period that I've heard. Now for the ALBERT AYLER question: I haven't heard NEW GRASS, and I'm not sure I want to. What does everyone think of this? I seem to hear nothing but horrible reports of this record; on the other hand, it seems that Al was trying something NEW (or was he?), which would explain a lot. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Cecil Taylor questions Date: 19 Apr 1998 14:23:19 -0700 On Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:26:01 -0400 Steve Smith wrote: > > brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > > > Another glaring gap in my collection. When they came out, I figured > > I'd get most of them eventually, but to date have only purchased two: > > 'The Hearth' with Evan Parker and Tristan Honsinger which is pretty > > nice and 'Alms/Tiergarten/Spree' with the orchestra which is superb.I > > understand the disc w/Bailey is fine (as might be expected) with Derek > > being the musician in this series who most 'bent' CT towards his > > style. Personally, I'm very curious about the duet with Louis Moholo. > > Anyone? > > The Moholo duo is disappointing in my opinion. They just don't ever really > connect. I, too, always thought I'd get around to buying all of these and > still may; a single CD sampler issued with a recent issue of the Italian jazz > magzine Musica Jazz included samples of many of the CT FMPs I hadn't heard and ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Any idea if an excerpt with Evan Parker showed up on this sampler? > they all sounded fine, but it's hard to tell with so little context. I own and > endorse the Bailey and the Parker/Honsinger, as well as one I've not yet > purchased but have heard in its entirety, the Han Bennink. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Another Zorn Date: 19 Apr 1998 17:40:45 -0400 (EDT) If you check the "Upcoming Concerts" section on Braxton's Tri-Centric foundation page you'll see that he's playing two concerts in the future with someone named Jonathan Zorn on contrabass. I'm almost sure it's not *our* Mr. Z., but if that person is pursuing a career in improvised music, I hope he's prepared for a lot of understandable confusion. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: new goodies / AYLER Date: 19 Apr 1998 14:48:16 -0700 On Sun, 19 Apr 1998 14:19:04 PDT "Scott Handley" wrote: > > Now for the ALBERT AYLER question: I haven't heard NEW GRASS, and I'm > not sure I want to. What does everyone think of this? I seem to hear > nothing but horrible reports of this record; on the other hand, it > seems that Al was trying something NEW (or was he?), which would explain > a lot. Is it the one with a lot of R&B singing? If yes, it is a very accessible record which I always listen to with a lot of pleasure. Not free at all but Ayler blows as you can expect. Knowing Ayler's passion for very popular styles of music (including the dreaded military one), I am surprised that people can dislike that one when liking Ayler. I often wondered if Ayler was not at his most genuine state with that record :-). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: Bang on a Can and Thanks Date: 19 Apr 1998 19:16:50 -0400 (EDT) as for CD's, i really like 'industry'. -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Terence Sin" <zippy@myna.com> Subject: Headphones amp for listening to Bar Kokbha Date: 19 Apr 1998 20:24:32 +0500 Can any audio freak out there in Zorn land shed some light on the recording quality of the bass in Bar Kokbha? I find the really deep-end of the acoustic bass to be muddy and undefined, the same problem I've found with the Pat Metheny/Charlie Haden duet CD. Someone alerted me to the fact that the 50 cents op-amps that drive the headphone output commonly found in CD players and receivers don't quite cut it, and recommended that I get a dedicated headphone amp such as the ones available from HeadRoom. Any opinion? I'm using the Sennheiser HD-455 headphones, which is spec'ed to go as low as 18 Hz, but I suspect the headphones aren't the weak link here. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Polwchsel (was Hat...site) Date: 19 Apr 1998 23:33:49 -0400 At 09:31 AM 4/19/98 -0400, Brian Olewnick wrote: >an album by the >band Polwechsel, a group I've been trying to locate (to listen to) for a >few years. They have a wonderful album on Random Acoustics, which is listed in the most recent Cadence (RA9). Very much in the textural vein, like Archery or King Ubu, where I spend time wondering what instrument is playing what. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Torture Garden Vinyl Date: 19 Apr 1998 23:43:43 -0400 At 06:07 PM 4/18/98 -0500, Howie Voigt wrote: >The US shimmy disc(?) >release might be cheaper but I don't know where to look for one. >I have seen one once and I believe this version is gatefold as well. The Shimmy Disc version is *not* a gatefold, although the inner sleeve has special pictures. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Greg Cohen - Way Low Date: 20 Apr 1998 00:30:29 -0400 Dan Hewins wrote: > I know someone on this list is going to pick this up (if it's not already > owned) so I'll put in a request for a review. First rate blend of Ellington swing and west coast cool polyphony. Smokin live band, especially when Zorn sits in and adds a bit of the dirty stuff to this squeaky clean group. Retro, but original material and way less self-consciously hip than "Bug Music." Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque <Dgasque@aol.com> Subject: Re: Another Zorn Date: 20 Apr 1998 00:28:42 EDT In a message dated 98-04-19 17:42:14 EDT, you write: << If you check the "Upcoming Concerts" section on Braxton's Tri-Centric foundation page you'll see that he's playing two concerts in the future with someone named Jonathan Zorn on contrabass. I'm almost sure it's not *our* Mr. Z., but if that person is pursuing a career in improvised music, I hope he's prepared for a lot of understandable confusion. >> Yep, there is another John Zorn. I've got a friend who just got back from NYC a couple of months ago who was under Mr. Braxton's tutelage for a year or so. I jokingly asked him if he had jammed with Zorn while up there and he stated "which one?" He went on to say that there were in fact two John Zorns doing the improv thing and that he had played on occasion with one who was under Mr. Braxton's guidance. Yeah, I guess we're looking at the Zorn vs. Zorn CD that will hit the shelves one day soon... =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: avant/DIW Date: 20 Apr 1998 01:22:25 -0400 Patrick Stockton wrote: > would some kind person mind explaining the nature of DIW and Avant.... are > they different companies? Others could explain this better, probably, but since I'm more of a blab by nature I'll have a crack at it. DIW is the label of Disc Union, a Japanese distributor and retailer. They have been releasing exceptional and important recordings of traditional and avant-garde jazz for a number of years. These have made it into the U.S. with varying degrees of success. At one point in the '80s, the label signed a deal with Columbia Records, enabling the latter to cherry-pick new releases from the DIW release list. That didn't last long, naturally. DIW had just entered into a similar licensing deal with Koch International in 1993 for a handful of releases on the Koch Jazz label, halted it in 1994, and signed a full-fledged distribution deal with Koch DIW granted Zorn a platform from which to release his own records and those of artists chosen by him, Avant. DIW is not controlled by Zorn; Avant is. Avant is not controlled by DIW; it is manufactured and distributed by them. Tzadik is run by Zorn domestically and has nothing at all to do with DIW. Zorn does from time to time release records on DIW rather than Avant or Tzadik; notably, the entire Masada ouevre has been on DIW. I won't speculate as to why. DIW also runs a blues imprint, the name of which escapes me, and I think they also run the label that released the Ground Zero "Standards" CD recently. The name of that label escapes me as well. Sorry. I don't know of any printed catalog of Avant or DIW releases, but I'd imagine the Koch catalog will become a pretty good source before long. That's not available to the public generally speaking, but you could probably get someone at your local record store's jazz department to give you a peak. You can also get a complete listing of Avant releases in Patrice Roussel's Zorn discography which is housed on the WNUR Jazzweb, now located at the new URL http://www.wnur.org/jazz/artists/zorn.john/discog.html Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Dave Douglas "Thoughts Around Mahfouz" [was Re: mori] Date: 20 Apr 1998 02:11:52 -0400 Yves Dewulf wrote: > [snip] Tiny > >Bell-style tight unison passages with Jamie Saft's sampler or Fender Rhodes > >subbing for Shepik's role (on a few occasions Saft played lines sampled > >from Dave's sound but transposed down to tuba range, synched so tightly > >that at first I'd thought Dave was just playing through a splitter of some > >... > > Are you sure this was not an effect by Dave ? I ask this because he was > doing the same thing (trumpet doubled by a pitched down version of it, > sounding like a tuba or a trombone) in a Douglas/Bennink -duo > performance some months ago My first thought was that it was Dave playing through an octave divider of some sort, but I could see Jamie playing the same line and on occasion it sounded like there were small discrepancies that might be explained by two musicians playing almost but not exactly simultaneously. I didn't think to ask Dave at the end. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Dave Douglas "Thoughts Around Mahfouz" [was Re: mori] Date: 20 Apr 1998 02:21:22 -0400 Brent Burton wrote: > i tend to only post positive comments on lists because sometimes fans > will take such umbrage when a stranger doesn't like one of their favorite > musicians. I apologize if you felt I took umbrage with your opinion. Not at all. It's all just an exchange of opinions around here, and yours is as valid as mine. I do think Ikue Mori is the most mindblowing drum machine virtuoso around today... also the only one, to my knowledge. And to me, DNA was cool in a visceral sort of way, but it doesn't make me want to hear more drumming by Ikue. But that's *just* me... you are entitled to your opinion as well, it is no doubt shared by others, and I would feel cheated if you didn't feel free to post it to the Zornlist regardless of what I or others think. After all, no one's a stranger here because we're *all* stranger than most IMHO... Just so's you know... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Cecil Taylor questions Date: 20 Apr 1998 01:47:02 -0400 Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > [snip] a single CD sampler issued with a recent issue of the Italian jazz > > magzine Musica Jazz included samples of many of the CT FMPs I hadn't heard and > ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Any idea if an excerpt with Evan Parker showed up on this sampler? No. It contained excerpts from the solo disc, the duos with Sommer, Moholo, and Oxley, the "Alms/Tiergarten" orchestra, plus non-box FMP recordings including the Feel Trio and Corona versions of "Looking" and the solo "Double Holy House." The disc also included an unreleased outtake from "Always a Pleasure" that featured the "rhythm section" (Taylor, Honsinger, Sirone, Bakr) without the horns, as well as an 11 minute 1990 recording available nowhere else that features Taylor, Parker and percussionist Masahi Harada. A damn fine sampler, but, like I previously stated, it just makes me want all the original releases I don't have. Between this, a Verona Jazz live sampler disc I got some time back that included excerpts from live recordings of Ornette's "Skies of America," a live Zorn performance of a Morricone piece, a fragment of a Butch Morris conduction and more, and a disc of Steve Lacy duets subsequently released commercially last year, I'm beginning to think "Musica Jazz" may be the most enlightened jazz publication on the planet. Anyone who can actually read the magazine care to voice an opinion of the editorial content? Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Recent goodies Date: 20 Apr 1998 02:47:20 -0400 After a lengthy abstinence, I went nuts this weekend and purchased and enjoyed the following: Joe McPhee - As Serious As Your Life - hatOLOGY 514 Seems like everything Joe does is worth hearing. I like his work with ensembles better, but this is a very interesting solo effort. Matthew Shipp Trio - The Multiplication Trio - hatOLOGY 516 His best yet to these ol' ears. Susie Ibarra is Goddess. Mat Maneri Quintet - Acceptance - hatOLOGY 512 Like it, but still processing before I'll have the language to say why. (Highlight of my weekend, aside from hearing the newly rejuvenated Sphere at the Village Vanguard, was meeting Joe Maneri on Saturday, who was giving an interview to journalist/Zornlister David Strauss in a car parked outside Downtown Music Gallery, while I was doing most of the fiduciary damage about which you're currently reading.) ProjeKCt Two - Space Groove - DGM 9801 Adrian Belew, while not much of a drummer, is still more creative than I'd anticipated given his minimal groove drumming in the '80s King Crimson live shows. But this is two discs worth of Robert Fripp letting what little of his hair remains down with a pair of trusted companions, Belew and "touch guitarist" Trey Gunn, and for the price of one disc, to boot. And this recording was their first-ever rehearsal in this trio format, which makes me even hungrier for the upcoming live date at Irving Plaza. Much like the more groove-oriented tendencies of the sainted 1973-74 King Crimson lineup in collision/colusion with the weird instrumental KC stuff on side two of "Three of a Perfect Pair." John Lurie - Fishing with John - Strange and Beautful 0014 Well. It's got a lot of nice moments, but it hangs together as a whole about as well as the average soundtrack compilation. If you're a Lurie completist or a Tom Waits completist you'll need this (not one but *two* drunken vocal duets between Waits and Lurie-doing-Waits) and there's also a really brief track by the superlative current Lizards lineup, but otherwise you're better off buying "The Queen of All Ears," the new Lizards disc. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Toby Dodds <toby@seanet.com> Subject: Zony Mash Tour! Date: 20 Apr 1998 00:05:04 -0700 (PDT) ZONY MASH FEATURING: Wayne Horvitz - keyboards Timothy Young - guitar Fred Chalenor - bass Andy Roth - drums is on the road again! Hope to see ALL of you there. Fri - 4/24 - Neurolux - Boise, ID Sat - 4/25 - Evergreen State College - Olympia, WA Fri - 5/1 - Berbatti's Pan - Portland, OR Sat - 5/2 - WOW Hall - Eugene, OR Sun - 5/3 - Jambalaya - Arcata, CA Tue - 5/5 - SLO Brewing - San Luis Obispo, CA Wed - 5/6 - Coach House - Santa Barbara, CA Thu - 5/7 - TBA - Chico, CA Fri - 5/8 - Kresge Hall - UC Santa Cruz, CA Sat - 5/9 - Great American Music Hall - San Francisco, CA Sun - 5/10 - McCabes Guitar Shop - Santa Monica, CA WHAT THE PRESS ARE SAYING ABOUT ZONY MASH: .....a smarter, more harmonically involved band that never stays locked in a single groove. Its Meters meets Miles approach, though certainly tailored for the crossover, jam band set, was of the type that would be equally attractive to more discriminating listeners. Bill Kohlhaase, L.A Times You've got to be ultra tight to convince listeners of your funkateer prowess, and for the most part, the fingers of Zony Mash form a fist. On the nimble intro to "Smiles" they have the accuracy of a string quartet.... Here's to their inspired if unholy alliances. May they continue to offer such seductive blends Jim Macnie Down Beat Original tunes incorporate delightfully strange twists of harmony or rhythm, but the essential appeal is to the urge to dance. Josef Woodard Jazziz BYE! Toby - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stefan Verstraeten <stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be> Subject: weird little boy review... Date: 20 Apr 1998 08:58:09 +0200 Dear Zornies, Yes, I have a copy of weird little boy, and here's my very personal opinion... Well, unless you don't want to own everything by Zorn, I say, don't buy it, cause it's a lot of money for musical crap: The first two songs (10.07 & 8.05 minutes) is typical zorn stuff: vinyl noise as background, his duck-style saxophone playing, some guitar picking, you know it... Track 3 (2.14): imagine a kid who never had a guitar but plays it with distortion.... track 4 (1.39): an idiot camp tune on guitar track 5 (7.51): a childish imitation of doom metal track 6 (3.04): one track that makes everything all right Zorn on sax and trey spruance who plays guitar a bit like derek bailey would do, but more on in a melodic way... I really dig this track track 7 (2.59): vinyl noise and duck-style sax... I prefer merzbow, cause this track is childish track 8 (1.46): again a camp/country song track 9 (4.04): image a track that ikue mori would throw away cause it sucks... well you got a pretty idea what this sounds like As you can see, I won't recommend this, unless for the collectors among you. Zorn only plays his typical duck style and uses a sampler... in a bad way, I suggest he would leave this to mori, ostertag, shea & marclay. Mike Patton plays 'da drum' like a child (but probably this is art, you know what i'm saying ???), Chris Cochrane must have had a bad day because he can do better. Thank god for trey spruance, he tried it anyway. As a conclusion I would say: if you think that albums like mystic fugu orchestra and & nani nani are no rip-off but 'avant-garde art', you'll dig this album... if not buy the newest album of barbra streisand, cause even that one contains more sens than weird little boy.... -- Stefan Verstraeten - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: M.Ho <mus4mth@atlas.vcu.edu> Subject: ribot Date: 20 Apr 1998 9:07:17 EDT Are Greg Ribot and Marc anyway related? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Howard <Howard@3DI.com> Subject: RE:Another Zorn Date: 20 Apr 1998 08:34:27 -0500 If you check the "Upcoming Concerts" section on Braxton's Tri-Centric foundation page you'll see that he's playing two concerts in the future with someone named Jonathan Zorn on contrabass. I'm almost sure it's not *our* Mr. Z., but if that person is pursuing a career in improvised music, I hope he's prepared for a lot of understandable confusion. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net This is almost certainly Braxton's son's best friend, improbably named Jon Zorn. They played in a few bands together. He is a great musician and belongs to a Unitarian Church that some friends of mine belong to. We saw him play, Well You Needn't on piano for one of their services (Unitarians, gotta love em!) In fact, a band I was in played at this church with "Braxton and Zorn" and their post Nirvana kinda proggy pretty good for a high school band. Braxton's son (Tony?) told a great story about his dad getting him backstage to meet his fave band...Nirvana! He was very patient with the requisite "your dad's the greatest" slobbering. john - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stefan Verstraeten <stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be> Subject: avant & diw Date: 20 Apr 1998 16:36:17 +0200 The avant-record label is a subsidiary of the diw-label (stands for disk in the world). DIW gave John Zorn the possibility to be the artistic director of a sub label.... called avant... Capito ???? -- Stefan Verstraeten - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Boster <boster@mills.edu> Subject: Re: Another Zorn Date: 20 Apr 1998 08:19:23 -0700 (PDT) On Sun, 19 Apr 1998, Ken Waxman wrote: > If you check the "Upcoming Concerts" section on Braxton's > Tri-Centric foundation page you'll see that he's playing two concerts in > the future with someone named Jonathan Zorn on contrabass. No, rather a gifted young Weslyan student who also plays in a fine group called the Middletown 3 - all three multi-instrumentalists I believe. It is improvisational, although with perhaps a taste of the contemporary noise scene thrown in. Or some would say maybe a more European approach. They plan to tour somewhat this summer and I recommend catching them live (this review based on a couple recordings I've recieved from them, one of which was a live set on Weslyan radio). For the most part, it seems like Braxton is VERY supportive of his students in terms of including them in his work and creating some opportunities for them. Bob Boster (recieved a tape from them in hopes of booking them to the Cultural Labyrinth series here in SF) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dtapia@unoco.edu (Douglas Tapia) Subject: Re: David S. Ware Date: 20 Apr 1998 10:41:45 -0700 >I think this quartet is one of the best working groups of the decade, and >you can't really go wrong with any purchase. That having been said, I'd >snap up the other releases on DIW ("Earthquation", "Flight of i", "Third >Ear Recitation") before they go out of print. > >Jason Bivins > > >- You know, I really dug all the David S. Ware recordings I had ever heard, and I even own a few. Then, I saw the group live a couple of years back: The pianist looked like he didn't want to be there at all, the drummer played with the worst "anamatronic"-looking technique I've ever seen (and played really stiff and unmusically) Mr. Ware assended the stage, honked around a bit, and got totally pissed off screaming that the sound "fuckin' sucked." At this point, he ran off the stage and the bass player had to stop playing and chase him down. He caught David at the back of the room where David continued to yell and the bass player continued to try to calm him. After about ten minutes of this nonsense, the bass player took the stage again and told the audience that the sound just wasn't right, and that they were going to stop playing and let the engineer fix it. David intoned that they wouldn't come back till the sound was right. Thirty minutes later, the band took the stage again, everyone in the band appearing more disinterested than ever. The rhythm section began and about five minutes later Mr. Ware began playing. He started off honking in the low regester of the horn on one note which he kept up for a few minutes, then giving up on even rearticulating, he just started circular breathing and held the note for close to seven minutes. (We timed it) After the first tune was over, and in between each of the following tunes, Mr. Ware took every oppritunity to sneer at the audience. He put off this vibe like he new what he was playing was mostly bullshit, but that the audience was so dumb and eager to prove that they were hip that nobody would dare express that the show sucked (sort of the empereor's new cloths sort of thing) When a few people, including some great local "free" musicians, got up to leave, he made some really angry comments under his breath, dismissing them as "not getting it" I don't understand this. I myself have been involved in performance art pieces that intentionally alienate the audience, etc, but never have I seen anything where the artist showed obvious hatred and repulsion towards his audience so clearly. Would any of you with more experience with David S. Ware like to comment? I'd like it if someone could help me reconcile some of what I saw and heard that evening. -Doug Tapia - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Cecil Taylor questions Date: 20 Apr 1998 11:42:52 -0500 (CDT) On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Steve Smith wrote: > Between this, a Verona Jazz live sampler disc I got some time back that included > excerpts from live recordings of Ornette's "Skies of America," a live Zorn > performance of a Morricone piece, a fragment of a Butch Morris conduction and more, > and a disc of Steve Lacy duets subsequently released commercially last year, I'm > beginning to think "Musica Jazz" may be the most enlightened jazz publication on the > planet. Anyone who can actually read the magazine care to voice an opinion of the > editorial content? Wow -- is it possible to find copies of this magazine and its CDs? - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: David S. Ware Date: 20 Apr 1998 13:56:37 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Douglas Tapia wrote: > You know, I really dug all the David S. Ware recordings I had ever heard, > and I even own a few. Then, I saw the group live a couple of years back: sounds like you saw a terrible show. i love the quartet's recordings and their show here in d.c. a few months back was simply one of my favorite all-time live experiences. it's really rare to see a group of such virtuosic intensity and any one of those four musicians (ware, william parker, susie ibarra and matthew shipp) would be well worth seeing solo. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Weird Little Boy Date: 20 Apr 1998 14:34:21 -0400 (EDT) I've had a chance to listen to this several times thru the magic of radio promo-ism, and I think it's great- my favorite of the things that have come out this year. It's in the ambient/soundtrack/noise vein, it sounds a little like what I've heard about Absinthe or Elegy, but I haven't heard those. The book is really screwed up, but I didn't pick up on the writer being into gay/S+M stuff. Anyway, its only 42 or so min. long, and there is a virtually unlistenable high pitch at the end of the first track lasting about 2 minutes. The first song is sectioned, about 5 sections in 10 minutes, into various ambient/noise oriented things. The rest of the tracks are shorter and do not have many sections. 1 is a sludgy Black Sabbath type thing only the drums are played with brushes. That's the closest it gets to rock, but there are two others that have distorted guitar and an implied rock feeling to them, then there's another that's kind of a darker Morricone western thing. But the one's that get me are 2 near the end that have what sound like fire crackle or vinyl noises, with some really subtle noir things underneath (that's the Spillane part). I don't want to ruin it for anybody, but listening to #7 and thinking about the title is really something- scary. I wouldn't listen to this one everyday, as it's pretty dark and needs to be listened to straight thru, but it's pretty powerful and much more than the noisey fooling around I expected. Still, it sounds like they're not even trying, that's the scary part. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar Subject: MUSICA JAZZ Date: 20 Apr 1998 17:09:09 -0300 Joseff Zitt wrote: Is it possible to find copies of this magazine and its cds? I don't know know if MUSICA JAZZ is the most enligthened jazz publication on the planet, but it is a great Italian magazine very well written, with lot information, and very interesting CDs. I can get it in Argentina in some special book-stores. Email me privately Joseph, if you are interested. I can check it out. You'd better read Italian, otherwise... Hugo, from Argentina - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Olivier Nguyen Van Tan" <onvt@micronet.fr> Subject: Derek Bailey and Joelle Leandre on a new French label called Potlatch !!!!! Date: 20 Apr 1998 23:57:20 +0200 Hear or Die ! A new french label, called Potlatch, has just released a must-have record with MISTER Derek Bailey and "MADAME" Joelle Leandre. This CD is a pure moment of joy ! A splendid acoustic ballet between two jewels of improvisation... Every time, I listen to it, I listen to another record. Bailey is simply great and so is Leandre !!! :)) It is the first time that these two great improvisers appear together on a whole CD. The music was recorded live by Jean-Marc Foussat at Les Instants ChavirΘs, a club located in Montreuil, very close to Paris (on may 9, 1997). Potlatch records are available from distributors (d) and mail order services (mo) : * United Kingdom : Harmonia Mundi (d) * USA : Northcountry Distribution (d), Forced Exposure (mo) * Canada : Verge (d+mo) * Japan : DiskUnion (d) Information on the label can be found at : http://www.potlatch.digiweb.fr Olivier - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John McMahon <jmcmahon@wwdc.com> Subject: Ayler's New Grass Date: 20 Apr 1998 17:34:56 +0000 Quote from Scott Handley: "Now for the ALBERT AYLER question: I haven't heard NEW GRASS, and I'm not sure I want to. What does everyone think of this? I seem to hear nothing but horrible reports of this record; on the other hand, it seems that Al was trying something NEW (or was he?), which would explain a lot." I'm listening to New Grass as I type this (not an amazing coincidence; I put it on to refresh my memory). I think this is definitely worth acquiring. As you suggest, Ayler is trying something new. In a spoken intro on the first track, he says "The music I bring you is of a different dimension in my life... Through meditation... I have been made a universal man through the power of the creator...." etc. In the album, Albert works out over some soul/gospel grooves, as well as some soul singing by, um, The Soul Singers. Also, you GOTTA hear Albert and band SING "Ghosts"! If you like Ayler, give this a chance. It brings to mind another album from roughly the same era, "Atica Blues" by Archie Shepp. If you know that one, you will have a frame of reference. (Has Attica Blues ever been released on CD?) One quibble with the Ayler record: there are occasions where the sax is panned wildly from speaker to speaker. Probably pretty cool at the time; pretty annoying now. Anyhow, Cheers. John McMahon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Cecil Taylor questions Date: 21 Apr 1998 00:38:18 -0400 Joseph S. Zitt wrote: > On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Steve Smith wrote: > > [snip]I'm > > beginning to think "Musica Jazz" may be the most enlightened jazz publication on the > > planet. Anyone who can actually read the magazine care to voice an opinion of the > > editorial content? > > Wow -- is it possible to find copies of this magazine and its CDs? I'm not sure how to answer... I got the two issues I own from an Italian acquaintance on another list. So I'm not really sure how you would get this, short of that. But the Steve Lacy duets disc has been commerically released since the time the magazine offered it. Perhaps FMP will do the same with the Taylor? Steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Cecil Taylor Date: 21 Apr 1998 11:49:08 GMT0BST While so many people are focused on this subject, can I ask for opinions about (?) In Fluorescense (?), on the same surprise A&M label as a couple of Sun Ra's from the late 80s Also: marilyn Crispell, Kitchen Concert and Gaia? Any good? (All of these are second hand in Cardiff Market at the moment, and I don't expect they're going anywhere else in a hurry, so I thought I'd take soundings before forking out.) PS can someone fill me in about Screwgun's Julius Hemphill release programme? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Well, You Needn't Date: 21 Apr 1998 12:21:03 GMT0BST As "Well, You Needn't" has been mentioned, I have to tell you folks, most of whom don't have the BBC spending your money, of the best version of this song since 1954. Billy Jenkins and the Voice Of the People (which is basically the same group as The Voice Of God Collective) had a spot on a brief series of jazz progs here and, after two numbers (Greenwich One Way System and Close To You - he's been doing the latter for a few years; ie before the bacharach revival started) he finished the set with a short version of Well, You Needn't, telling the audience that they'd put lyrics to it, and that they could sing along: so it goes Da-da da-da daa da-da da-daa, Billy exorts the audience to shout "Bastard!", Da-da da-da daa da-da da-duh, "bastard!", etc. What I especially liked was that the word would fit in perfectly with the tune, but that getting the crowd to shout it out slightly stretched the space between the phrases, giving it a stop-start feel. They just played the theme once (Ballamy started a second round but Billy stopped him, either pre-arranged for humour, or due to time-constraints, I don't know?). Has anybody heard Jenkins? He's a great performer - and his shows are clearly designed for entertainment (which I'm utterly in favour of) but he's also, in my opinion, a very interesting, talented, and quite unique guitar player. I haven't heard any of his big fight records or concerts, but I rather like the idea: two free improvisers, in the ring, rounds of three minutes of "fighting" stopped by the bell. This dates back to the 80s, I believe. Did Zorn and Previte steal it for Euclid's Nightmare? Sean Wilkie Unrelated PS Miniature: will we ever see their likes again? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Sulacco <Sulacco@aol.com> Subject: Re: Re: Cecil Taylor Date: 21 Apr 1998 09:34:54 EDT the only one i can offered an opinion on is In Flourescence. this record rules. it was actually my introduction to cecil, so you can tell i'm a relative newbie. the playing on it is, IMHO, inspired and i REALLY dig the little spoken poetry bits on some of the songs. buy this one at any cost! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Simon Thibaudeau" <aag017@agora.ulaval.ca> Subject: Faxed Head Date: 21 Apr 1998 09:05:14 -0400 Does any of you have ever heard anything from Faxed Head? What are they all about? Does the band still exist? I read Trey Spruance talk about them in an interview and can't find anything on them execpt that they were, aparently, on Amarillo records. Anyone? Simon Thibaudeau Personal: simon.thibaudeau@ift.ulaval.ca Mindspell: aag017@agora.ulaval.ca (418)658-6150 http://mindspell.home.ml.org http://mindspellzine.home.ml.org Mindspell "paper" 'zine out now! featuring: Devin Townsend, Sadus, Brutal Truth, Raison D'Ωtre, Solar Spine and more.... Send 2$ US and Canada 3$ World to: Mindspell c/o Simon Thibaudeau 112 Ste-Marie Panet G0R 2J0 Canada "..and so this style of expression will depend largely on representation by sounds and gesture.." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Simon Thibaudeau" <aag017@agora.ulaval.ca> Subject: Faith no more, no more---officially Date: 21 Apr 1998 09:52:01 -0400 Faith No More have broken up, and this time it does not seem to be a rumour. Here is a copy of press release that is currently going out: "After 15 long and fruitful years, Faith No More have decided to put an end to speculation regarding their imminent break up... by breaking up. The decision among the members is mutual, and there will be no pointing of fingers, no naming of names, other than stating, for the record, that "Puffy started it". Furthermore, the split will now enable each member to pursue his individual project(s) unhindered. Lastly, and most importantly, the band would like to thank all of those fans and associates that have stuck with and supported the band Billy Gould (the bassist) has added this personal remark: I personally would like to thank all of you folks who've done such a fantastic job in keeping us alive, and growing with us through our changes, but especially in helping make our band available to people through the internet, because I'm absolutely convinced that without all of your help we would have been ignored (especially in the States). I would appreciate it if someone could please post a copy of this on to alt.music.faith-no-more. Seeee ya, Bill Written April 20 Simon Thibaudeau Personal: simon.thibaudeau@ift.ulaval.ca Mindspell: aag017@agora.ulaval.ca (418)658-6150 http://mindspell.home.ml.org http://mindspellzine.home.ml.org Mindspell "paper" 'zine out now! featuring: Devin Townsend, Sadus, Brutal Truth, Raison D'Ωtre, Solar Spine and more.... Send 2$ US and Canada 3$ World to: Mindspell c/o Simon Thibaudeau 112 Ste-Marie Panet G0R 2J0 Canada "..and so this style of expression will depend largely on representation by sounds and gesture.." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Cecil Taylor Date: 21 Apr 1998 10:24:03 -0400 (EDT) "Blue Delight" (on A&M) is a fine Ra release from 1989 with a 21 piece band, including regulars like Marshall Allen, John Gilmore and Ahmed Abdullah and a few ringers, including two guitarists and two drummesr, one of whom is Billy Higgins. And you haven't lived until you've heard the Arkestra's version of "Days of Wine and Roses". Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, DR S WILKIE wrote: > While so many people are focused on this subject, can I ask for > opinions about (?) In Fluorescense (?), on the same surprise A&M > label as a couple of Sun Ra's from the late 80s > Also: marilyn Crispell, Kitchen Concert and Gaia? Any good? > (All of these are second hand in Cardiff Market at the moment, and I > don't expect they're going anywhere else in a hurry, so I thought I'd > take soundings before forking out.) > > PS can someone fill me in about Screwgun's Julius Hemphill release > programme? > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Faxed Head Date: 22 Apr 1998 00:49:21 +1000 > Does any of you have ever heard anything from Faxed Head? What are they all > about? Does the band still exist? I read Trey Spruance talk about them in an > interview and can't find anything on them execpt that they were, aparently, > on Amarillo records. Fake heavy metal/noise band where they pretend all the members are failed suicide attempts. Trey plays guitar as "Neck Head", a guy with no head, just a big neck. The lead singer is I believe Gregg Turkington aka Neil Hamburger aka the head of Amarillo aka "McPatrick Head", a guy with a plaid skin graft. The others are similarly deformed and named. There's guitar, bass, drums, vocals and electronics, so there's enough experimental noise to piss off real heavy metal fans in the audience. Some of the songs are genuinely good, but the recording quality is (purposely) pretty bad. I saw them live and they covered "Spiderwebs" by No Doubt which was pretty funny. Generally better live than on CD. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: New York Crash Space Date: 21 Apr 1998 14:43:41 -0400 (EDT) Hi, i live in Canada, i want to go down to NYC at the end of this month to hear Masada play the Knit, and i want to bring four or five friends with me. Do any of you have suggestions for REALLY CHEAP places to sleep (besides, that is, Central Park)? -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: DIW Releases Date: 21 Apr 1998 13:53:41 -0500 Maybe someone can help me figure this out. I'm listening to the John Patton new one out on DIW and I'm wondering why it's been released on DIW. It was recorded in NYC and it seems to be an "American" album (whatever that means). I wonder why someone decided to put it out on DIW. Could it be that John Patton has a contract with DIW? If so, then duh, there's my answer; if not, why? Same goes with the Greg Cohen disc. On a similar note: What makes one decide whether to release something on Tzadik or Avant? To make things more/less accesible for Japanese/Americans? Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gabriel Lichtmann <licht@bancaria.com.ar> Subject: [Fwd: Help Wanted] Date: 18 Apr 1998 06:29:55 -0300 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------E963F4A7B37A7670EB61F3A4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------E963F4A7B37A7670EB61F3A4 Content-Type: message/rfc822 Content-Disposition: inline Return-Path: rizzi@netcom.com Received: from netcom9.netcom.com (rizzi@netcom9.netcom.com [192.100.81.119]) by serverw.bancaria.com.ar (8.7.6/SCO5) with ESMTP id SAA11199 for <licht@bancaria.com.ar>; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 18:11:50 GMT Received: (from rizzi@localhost) by netcom9.netcom.com (8.8.5-r-beta/8.8.5/(NETCOM v1.02)) id LAA16773 for licht@bancaria.com.ar; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:06:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <199804211806.LAA16773@netcom9.netcom.com> In-Reply-To: <35385E46.8C09269B@bancaria.com.ar> from "Gabriel Lichtmann" at Apr 18, 98 05:03:18 am X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL25] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gabriel Lichtmann, demi-God and Icon sez: > >I need to contact Mr. Z. to ask him for the rights of some of his >compositions for a short film I'm about to make =BFdoes anybody know whe= re >can I find him besides the Tzadik Website? Thanks. You can try writing the Tzadik postal address. mike p.s. This message did not go to the members of the zorn-list because it was sent to the address owner-zorn-list-digest@xmission.com instead of=20 zorn-list@xmission.com where messages sent to fellow list members should be addressed.=20 Thanks, mike rizzi zorn-list owner --=20 rizzi@netcom.com -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com "Another nerd with a soulpatch"=20 -------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 ------- --------------E963F4A7B37A7670EB61F3A4-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JoLaMaSoul <JoLaMaSoul@aol.com> Subject: 4/26 Grn St:Yaun 4tet/Maneri 4tet/Maneri-Morris-Maneri Date: 21 Apr 1998 17:09:49 EDT HELLDORADO PRESENTS THE KEITH YAUN QUINTET, THE JOE MANERI QUARTET, AND MANERI-MORRIS- MANERI TRIO ON SUNDAY APRIL 26, AT THE GREEN STREET GRILL, 280 GREEN STREET, CENTRAL SQUARE, CAMBRIDGE, MA. ______________________________________ "Joe Maneri is one of the most important musicians in the history of free jazz" Harvey Pekar, Village Voice "Bostonian guitarist Joe Morris is perhaps the most exciting and original jazz plucker to emerge in the last decade." John Corbett, Down Beat ______________________________________ Helldorado is proud to present the debut of The Keith Yaun Quintet, along with sets by The Joe Maneri Quartet and The Maneri-Morris-Maneri Trio. Doors open at 9pm, with the first set (Maneri-Morris-Maneri) occuring at 9:30pm. The Green Street Grill, 280 Green Street, Central Square, Cambridge, MA, 02139. Tickets are $6. For more information, contact Billy: malamond@world.std.com, or Jonathan: JoLaMaSoul@aol.com, or call the club at 617-876-1655. Headlining the evening at 11:30 pm in their Green Street Grill debut will be The Keith Yaun Quintet. ThisBoston-based quintet consists of Yaun on guitar, Mat Maneri (ECM, HatArt, Leo-Lab) on electric viola, Nathan Cook (Accurate Records) on tenor saxophone, John Lockwood (ECM, Soul Note) on bass and John McLellan (Accurate Records) on drums. Each member with his own inventive style plays an integral part in incorporating contemporary harmonic and melodic motifs to the traditional setting of a jazz quintet. The group has recently completed an albumÆs worth of material comprised entirely of compositions by group members, the sound of which has been described as a cross between 20th century classical and hard-swinging jazz. At 10:30 pm, the Joe Maneri Quartet will treat the audience to another wonderful Green Street performance. The 70-year-old microtonal master and his quartet, featuring Joe on reeds, his son Mat on the six-string electric violin, John Lockwood on double-bass, and Randy Peterson on drums and percussion, has been making waves in the jazz community with their deeply emotional recordings, including the recent ECM release "In Full Cry". Bob Blumenthal, in a Boston Globe article, calls them "One of the most adventurous quartets anywhere." Not only is the group in amazing synchronicity with the compositions (incorporating the amazing 72-notes-per-octave microtonal system which the senior Maneri has been teaching at the New England Conservatory since the 1960's), but each player is a highly creative master of their own individual instrument. Opening the evenings show at 9:30 pm will be the amazing trio of Maneri- Morris-Maneri. For the last 20 years and over the course of 16 albums recorded since the early 80's, Joe Morris has been unfolding his truly singular guitar style. Reviews of Joe's work in the past few years have either stated directly or pointed to the fact that he is the guitar revolutionary to be listening and paying mind to today. 1997 was a prolific year of recording release dates for Morris; Black Saint brought forth the most recent recordings of the Joe Morris Quartet; HatArt dealt the unprecedented duo with Matthew Shipp, and No More Records released a very fine live duo with William Parker. In November of '97, the remarkable Joe Morris Trio released the disc "Antennae" (Aum Fidelity). 1996 saw the release of three very different albums: a beautiful solo disc on Leo, an Ensemble date on Homestead recorded with Matthew Shipp, William Parker and Whit Dickey, and finally, a collective trio with the father/son team of Joe/Mat Maneri on ECM, entitled "Three Men Walking". This trio is not to be missed! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jack Torrance" <kubrick@hotmail.com> Subject: faith no more breakup Date: 21 Apr 1998 14:22:38 PDT For those interested here's an article which talks aboit fnm's breakup and some upcoming side projects- "After fifteen long years and at least one hit song (1989's "Epic"), Bay Area heavy-metal-funksters Faith No More have decided to throw in the towel, pack it up, call it a day, stop playing music together. A statement faxed to muzic.com global headquarters in San Francisco made official what we've already been reporting for some time now: "Faith No More have decided to put an end to speculation regarding their imminent demise by . . . breaking up. The decision among the members is mutual and there will be no pointing of fingers, no naming of names, other than stating, for the record, that, Puffy started it." The Puffy in question isn't Sean Combs of Bad Boy infamy but rather FNM drummer Mike "Puffy" Bordin, whose decision to commit to skinsbeating for Ozzy Osbourne's Ozz Fest gigs this summer rather than a planned Faith tour of Europe is said to have been a major point of friction within the band. As the release states, speculation about the band's dissolution was rampant, and may have played an ironic role in making things final. FNM were reportedly distressed about a San Francisco Chronicle story last week that all but nailed their coffin shut for them. In any case and whatever the cause, things are kaput, and the boys of Faith No More are finally free to devote all their energy to their respective side projects. Keyboardist Roddy Bottum will resume his role as guitarist and songwriter for San Francisco's critical sweethearts, Imperial Teen (whose new record, What Is Not To Love? should be in stores later this summer), while singer Mike Patton (who replaced original FNM vocalist Chuck Mosley in 1988) will continue playing, recording and gigging with the likes of Mr.Bungle and that artsy-fartsy John Zorn guy. Furthermore, this June 18 at Slim's in San Francisco, Patton will debut his latest ensemble, Phantomas. Featuring Patton alongside ex-Slayer drummer Dave Lombardo, Mr.Bungle's Trevor Dunn and The Melvins' Buzz Osbourne, Phantomas had originally decided to call themselves Diabolik, but later rejected their own moniker because it wasn't that cool."Greg Heller Jack (who must like artsy-farsty music according to this well informed music journalist) ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Cecil Taylor Date: 21 Apr 1998 20:20:31 -0400 DR S WILKIE wrote: > While so many people are focused on this subject, can I ask for > opinions about (?) In Fluorescense (?), on the same surprise A&M > label as a couple of Sun Ra's from the late 80s Very well recorded, nice integration of poetry and music. It lives or dies on what you think of Bendian... I know plenty of people who just hate it for that reason alone, but I'm not one of them. If it's cheap you should probably grab it... a Cecil record on a major label is bound to be a rare curiosity for the ages. > PS can someone fill me in about Screwgun's Julius Hemphill release > programme? Right now it's just a straight reissue of the rare album "Blue Boy=E9" which Tim helped Julius self-release in the '80s. Down the line there's talk of digging into a wealth of live material from the early days of the B.A.G. that Baikida Carroll's been sitting on for years, he seems to have been that scene's primary archivist. Early Hemphill and Lake and so on. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> Subject: Gregg Bendian; was Re: Cecil Taylor Date: 21 Apr 1998 21:08:07 -0400 Steve Smith wrote: > Very well recorded, nice integration of poetry and music. It lives or > dies on what you think of Bendian... I know plenty of people who just > hate it for that reason alone, but I'm not one of them. Any other comments on Bendian's work from anyone? I tended to be in the camp cited by Steve above, but a couple of years go I picked up the album 'Noir' by Paul Plimley, Lisle Ellis and Bendian and found myself enjoying his work, and compositions, very much. Haven't heard anything really under his own name though. Recommendations, as always, would be appreciated. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Lawrence Schwartz <jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu> Subject: Re: Gregg Bendian; was Re: Cecil Taylor Date: 21 Apr 1998 21:32:17 -0400 (EDT) I recently saw Gregg Bendian with Nels Cline in L.A., covering Coltrane's Interstellar Space (no, I'm not kidding). They were fearsome. Although I thought of Bendian more as a percussionist, his kit playing was tremendous. It reminded me a lot of Book of Heads, in that he seemed to have taken the approaches of early free drummers like Sunny Murray, Milford Graves, and (of course) Rashied Ali, and systematized them in a way informed by European avant stuff like Nancarrow and Elliot Carter. I thought it was cool. I also like In Floresence, though I haven't listened to it for a while. I have several other albums with Bendian on them-impressions follow: Gregg Bendian's Interzone: fairly restrained session with Clines (Nels & Alex) and Mark Dresser. Bendian plays mallets only-Alex Cline's got the kit. Claims to be a tribute to Gentle Giant-I know nothing about that band. Whatever the GG reverence portends, the album is not tainted by whatever it is that I negativly associate with progressive rock (flame away y'all) Derek Bailey/Pat Metheny/Paul Wertico/Bendian 3CD thing on Knitting Factory: This has already been discussed a lot on this list-I don't getit. Too much mayhem. Maybe the 2 drummer/guitarist pairs are mixed hard left and right for a reason... Bailey/Bendian-Banter: One of my favorite Derek Bailey records. Often, it seems Bailey's collaborators play simultaneously with him rather than WITH him (see above). Bailey is enough of an anarchist to keep doing his own thing no matter what other players throw at him, and has big enough ears that he can comprehend mere simultanaety as interplay (or whatever). Of the folks I've heard play with Bailey, Anthony Braxton, Henry Kaiser, Barre Phillips, and Bendian seem to get inside of his sound-world the most. I haven't heard the Bailey/Cecil Taylor thang yet. I like Bendian a lot on mallets and hand instruments with Bailey-they fit with the colors and levels he gets from the guitar. That's all I know about that. Bendian must have been hella young when he played with Cecil-he doesn't look much older than 25 now... I guess the summary is-get Banter and keep a lookout for a Bendian/Nels Cline Coltrane thang this Fall-the show was scary as can be. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2 <JonAbbey2@aol.com> Subject: Hemphill reissues Date: 21 Apr 1998 22:41:03 EDT In a message dated 4/21/98 8:48:58 PM, ssmith36@sprynet.com wrote: <<> PS can someone fill me in about Screwgun's Julius Hemphill release > programme? Right now it's just a straight reissue of the rare album "Blue Boy=E9" which Tim helped Julius self-release in the '80s. Down the line there's talk of digging into a wealth of live material from the early days of the B.A.G. that Baikida Carroll's been sitting on for years, he seems to have been that scene's primary archivist. Early Hemphill and Lake and so on.>= > How come we can't get a reissue of Dogon AD? Does someone have the rights= =0Alocked up and is waiting for Julius' 100th birthday celebration to rel= ease it?=0AWhat a crime. Jon=0A - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson <wlt4@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: mantler/cecil taylor/jcoa Date: 22 Apr 1998 01:05:39 -0400 At 01:59 AM 4/17/98 -0400, you wrote: >It is available on a single CD on the JCOA label, Is the single CD the complete original album? For some reason I got the impression that it wasn't but there's no indication on the disc of any trimming. Lang Thompson http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4 New at Funhouse: Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan obituary. "No one ever listens to Zathras. Quite mad they say. It is good that Zathras does not mind. Has even grown to like it." -- Zathras - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stefan Verstraeten <stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be> Subject: new derek bailey albums Date: 22 Apr 1998 10:10:48 +0200 Hi Zornies, for those interested in derek bailey, check out the following new albums: (1)take fakes & dead she dances (incus): new stuff recorded 1997 (2)karyobin (chronoscope): recordings from 1968 with bailey, kenny wheeler, evan parker (3)tohjimbo (paratactile): new stuff from derek bailey & the ruins (4)no wating (potlach): duo with joelle leandre I know it's hard to find those albums, but for those who live in Europe, I mention that you can order them from derek bailey himself: The cd's cost 12=A3 (including p&p) and the adress is: INCUS RECORDS 14 DOWNS ROAD LONDON E5 8DS ENGLAND Eric Clapton is God, no way, derek bailey is.................... --=20 Stefan Verstraeten Belgium (Europe) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: davis/laswell Date: 22 Apr 1998 23:38:13 +1000 I know this has probably been discussed before, but anyway, what is the "laswell manipulates miles davis" disc like? And incidentally for future reference what's it called? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: jcoa Date: 22 Apr 1998 10:03:27 -0400 (EDT) > At 01:59 AM 4/17/98 -0400, you wrote: > >It is available on a single CD on the JCOA label, i was wondering if anyone knew of other records on the jcoa label? i have a don cherry album (the one with "trans-love airways") on jcoa and i remember william hooker saying something about jcoa distributing his records, but i've never seen anything else they've done. also, on a similar note, i recently acquired a jerome cooper/kalaparuscha/frank lowe double lp on kharma records and i was wondering if any of you folks knew anything about that label (or about the record for that matter). the library of congress holds only one kharma title and it's frank lowe's _dr. too much_. did they release anything else? thanks, b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Gregg Bendian; was Re: Cecil Taylor Date: 22 Apr 1998 10:39:06 -0400 (EDT) I too was turned on by "Noir" and because of it picked up a couple of Gregg's discs. The prize, to me, is "Counterparts" (CIMP) which features his percussion/drums, plus Mark Dresser on bass, Paul Smoker on tmpt and flugel and Vinny Golia on reeds. It's a fast-paced, joyous, free bop session. "Interzone" (Eremite) is more problematic since Gregg limits himself to vibes and glokenspiel and besides Dresser the CD also features Nels Cline on guitar and Alex Cline on drums/percussion. The session does grow on you, but to my ears is pretty "soft" compared to the CIMP. Be warned (or excited, depending on your interests), by the way, the session is dedicated to the British rock band Gentle Giant, which Bendian hymns as the first group to introduce him to contemporary composition. Bendian also does very fine work on vibes on William Parker's Little Huey Creative Orchestra's "Sunrise In The Tone World" on Eremite, including one track that is set up as a duet between him and Marco Eneidi (as). And, also featuring William Parker and , on some tracks, Steve Swell (tmb), Bendian is the rock-solid bottom for Christopher Cauley's "FINland" (Eremite). I'd definitely get the other three CDs and decide on "Interzone" according to your tastes. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Brian Olewnick wrote: > Steve Smith wrote: > > > Very well recorded, nice integration of poetry and music. It lives or > > dies on what you think of Bendian... I know plenty of people who just > > hate it for that reason alone, but I'm not one of them. > > Any other comments on Bendian's work from anyone? I tended to be in the > camp cited by Steve above, but a couple of years go I picked up the > album 'Noir' by Paul Plimley, Lisle Ellis and Bendian and found myself > enjoying his work, and compositions, very much. Haven't heard anything > really under his own name though. Recommendations, as always, would be > appreciated. > > Brian Olewnick > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: jcoa Date: 22 Apr 1998 10:45:19 -0500 Brent wrote: >i was wondering if anyone knew of other records on the jcoa label? i >have a don cherry album (the one with "trans-love airways") on jcoa >and i remember william hooker saying something about jcoa distributing >his records, but i've never seen anything else they've done. Aside from the Mantler and Bley's ESCALATOR, JCOA released: Don Cherry Relativity Suite Leroy Jenkins For Players Only Roswell Rudd Numatic Swing Band Grachan Moncur Echoes of Prayer Clifford Thornton The Gardens of Harlem I think that's all, though perhaps I'm missing one or two. I don't think any have been re-issued on disc. The Cherry and Thornton albums have some great playing and compositions on them. The others, IMHO, are a bit hit and miss. What Hooker is likely talking about was the distribution service run out of JCOA: NMDS (New Music Distribution Service). During most of the 70's they were the prime place to order otherwise-impossible-to-find records on tiny labels. They operated out of a townhouse on West 95th St. (Bley's home, I believe). It was a great place to walk into and be bowled over by the amount of amazing records lying around and talk music with the quite knowledgeable staff (including Kip Hanrahan for a while). >also, on a similar note, i recently acquired a jerome >cooper/kalaparuscha/frank lowe double lp on kharma records and i was >wondering if any of you folks knew anything about that label (or about >the record for that matter). the library of congress holds only one >kharma title and it's frank lowe's _dr. too much_. did they release >anything else? Was this the label run by Dan Spero? If so, he's still around involved in record dealing; he shows up at record fairs around town (NYC) occasionally. Not sure if he's on the Net anywhere. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: jcoa Date: 22 Apr 1998 08:01:48 -0700 On Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:03:27 -0400 (EDT) Brent Burton wrote: > > > At 01:59 AM 4/17/98 -0400, you wrote: > > > >It is available on a single CD on the JCOA label, > > i was wondering if anyone knew of other records on the jcoa label? i > have a don cherry album (the one with "trans-love airways") on jcoa and > i remember william hooker saying something about jcoa distributing his > records, but i've never seen anything else they've done. Could it be New Music Distribution? > also, on a similar note, i recently acquired a jerome > cooper/kalaparuscha/frank lowe double lp on kharma records and i was > wondering if any of you folks knew anything about that label (or about > the record for that matter). the library of congress holds only one > kharma title and it's frank lowe's _dr. too much_. did they release > anything else? I know of at least two others: *** - UNEXPECTED: Kenny Davern Recorded in New York City on May 30, 1978 Kenny Davern: soprano, clarinet; Steve Lacy (all but (2)): soprano; Steve Swallow: bass; Paul Motian: drums. 1978 - Kharma, PK 7 (LP) *** - IN TOUCH... BUT OUT OF REACH: Butch Morris Recorded on December 22 and 23, 1978 Lawrence "Butch" Morris: cornet; Gracham Moncur III: trombone; Charles Eubanks: piano; Wilbur Morris: bass; Bobby Battle: drums, percussion; Steve McCall: drums, percussion. 1978 - Kharma, PK9 (LP) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Cecil Taylor Date: 22 Apr 1998 08:21:04 -0800 DR S WILKIE writes: > While so many people are focused on this subject, can I ask for > opinions about (?) In Fluorescense (?), on the same surprise A&M > label as a couple of Sun Ra's from the late 80s > I used to have In Flouresence but traded it in, never found it satisfying to listen to. Like the record CT made with the AAOC, the musicians (Bendian) never really connect at all. Bendian's soni vocabulary doesn't stand up well to Taylor's playing, he's more of an impressionistic musician than one with any kind of pulse. There always seemed to be a missing element on the record. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: jcoa Date: 22 Apr 1998 11:16:11 -0400 (EDT) On Wed, 22 Apr 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > the library of congress holds only one kharma title and it's frank > > lowe's _dr. too much_. did they release anything else? > > I know of at least two others: > > *** - UNEXPECTED: Kenny Davern > 1978 - Kharma, PK 7 (LP) > *** - IN TOUCH... BUT OUT OF REACH: Butch Morris > 1978 - Kharma, PK9 (LP) that's interesting, because i know the frank lowe lp is pk 1 and the jerome cooper double lp (1978) is pk 3/4, so there must also be pk 2, pk 5, pk 6 and pk 8 floating around somewhere. thanks, b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: John Szwed's review of Dave Douglas's "Mahfouz" Date: 21 Apr 1998 20:40:34 -0400 This is a longish but really good review of the new Dave Douglas project "Mahfouz" which I talked about last week. Leave it to John Szwed (author of the Sun Ra biography) to say it a lot better than I did. This is in the new Village Voice: =========================================== When my editor first suggested last week that I should hear trumpeter Dave Douglas's meditations on the works of Naguib Mahfouz at Roulette, I thought he said Nassim Maalouf, the Lebanese four-valve trumpeter whose microtonal melodies turn up in many a French DJ's orientalist mixes. But no, it was Egypt's Nobel Prize-winning author whom Douglas was celebrating. An understandable error, since jazz musicians have been multicultural from the beginning, drawing inspiration from anywhere they could find it, their own mythical geographies as finely detailed as those of an Italo Calvino or a Jorge Luis Borges. In fact, it was just at the moment when classical music was beginning to abandon programmatic composition under the influence of neoclassicism that jazz arrived, sprinkling its titles and lyrics with the street names, railroads, junctions, deltas, coasts, and cities that made up its America. Soon whole countries and continents also surfaced in this music through the borrowed and imagined melodies and rhythms of Mexico, India, Cuba, Brazil, and Africa (which I don't have to remind you includes Egypt). Dave Douglas's own personal geography has that same grand sweep. His three recordings with guitarist Brad Schoeppach and drummer Jim Black as the Tiny Bell Trio (such as their latest--and my favorite--Live in Europe, on Arabesque Records) take their inspiration from Balkan instrumental music; his Strings Group projects (Parallel Worlds and Five on Soul Note) have worked the repertoires of Kurt Weill, Webern, and Stravinsky. But Douglas also draws from the books of Monk and Herbie Nichols, and two of his best recordings honor Booker Little (In Our Lifetime on New World) and Wayne Shorter (Stargazer on Arabesque). Even in a cosmopolitan music, his range marks him as singularly urbane. Douglas is something of a stealth success, having moved from sideman of choice to a leader who can now play almost anywhere, from the usual new-music haunts to mainstream jazz clubs. But he paid his way, working in every conceivable trumpet role in the bands of Horace Silver, Myra Melford, Don Byron's Mickey Katz project, Guy Klucevsek, Uri Caine, and most notably in John Zorn's Masada, where Douglas continues to walk the wire between free jazz and klezmer. In spite of the company he keeps Downtown, he is too persistently lyrical and melodic to be considered a postmodernist. If anything, he is pre-modernist, even romantic, in his respectful approach to sources, his willingness to treat any musics of the world as potential for covers. He plays with the bright, piercing tone of the classic lead trumpet, but also with the poise, emotion, and intelligence of a first-rate improviser (he's one of those musicians you can hear thinking). He possesses a style rich with a variety of vibrato and attack and the facility to push the horn to its limits with multi-octave jumps; and he draws from a full catalogue of buzzes, half-valve squeezes, and choked tones that mark the nexus where the blues and the 20th-century avant-garde meet unashamed. Last year he turned a corner with Sanctuary (Avant), an ambitious two-hour foray into electronics with a double quartet of samplers, trumpets, bassists, saxophones, and drums which updates the '60s experiments with double groups of John Coltrane and Ornette Coleman, and remarkably manages to sustain interest over two CDs. Douglas credits Coltrane and Coleman on the record, along with Arnold Schoenberg, Pierre Boulez, Boccaccio, and the Santa Maria del Fiore Cathedral of Florence, Italy. But given Douglas's affinity for Wayne Shorter's music and the electric rumble and shifting textures of this record, it would be hard to imagine that the spirit of Shorter's composition "Sanctuary'' (which concluded Miles Davis's Bitches Brew) is not also lurking somewhere in the mix. Despite the billing at Roulette last week, the compositions that Douglas presented were not noticeably programmatic: they seemed less walks through Cairo's Khan al-Khalili bazaar or the alleyways of Gamaliyya than a sonic fantasy in the strict musical sense of the term. He extended the directions he had begun on Sanctuary, and though the evening was heavy with electronics (Douglas and the ubiquitous Ikue Mori on samplers, along with Jamie Saft's keyboards and Kenny Wollesen's drums), the music was flush with melody, tone color, and dynamics, and even moments of fastidiousness and delicacy. And if I say that I most enjoyed those moments when Douglas picked up his horn, I mean it as no disrespect to his ambitions: it's just that I suspect that Douglas can play anything on his trumpet that he can get from his electronics, and probably anything else he wants to. As Amiri Baraka used to say, hear him now, and prepare to be moved. copyright 1998 John Szwed / Village Voice Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: Kharma Records Date: 22 Apr 1998 13:51:11 -0500 Brent, I misremembered the name of the producer of Kharma Records; it's Dan Serro. He does have an on-line auction list at: http://www.jazzimprov.com/A_rare_d.htm Perhaps you can locate the missing catalogue items through him. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tag Yr It <TagYrIt@aol.com> Subject: Re: Hemphill reissues Date: 22 Apr 1998 16:16:44 EDT Since we're on the subject, if anyone's interested I have available: J0330/LP promo/Hemphill, Julius/'Coon Bid'ness/Ex+(minor woc, hic, pro. stk.)/M-/promo label; Arista Freedom AL 1012/$15.00 J0329/LP promo/Hemphill, Julius/Dogon A.D./Ex+(minor woc, pro. emb.)/M-/promo label; Arista Freedom AL 1028/$15.00 Email me privately if you're interested in these. or would like a list of other jazz material I have available. Thanks! Dale. Little Nighttown Music - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "f.e. somerset" <fsomerse@julian.uwo.ca> Subject: leroy jenkins Date: 22 Apr 1998 17:12:56 -0400 (EDT) A while ago I used to listen to a friend's solo improv live album of Leroy Jenkins, and thought it was amazing... It ends with a melodic double stop tune as encore, can't remember what but it's a spiritual or something. Anyway, since then I've been searching for the album but haven't been able to find it, and everything else of his I've seen has looked a bit risky to invest in (pricy and involving ensembles I don't know). Can anyone offer a review of any of his disks, or even a guess as to which one it is I'm after? cheers f - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> Subject: Re: leroy jenkins Date: 22 Apr 1998 17:48:18 -0400 f.e. somerset wrote: > > A while ago I used to listen to a friend's solo improv live album of Leroy > Jenkins, and thought it was amazing... It ends with a melodic double stop > tune as encore, can't remember what but it's a spiritual or something. > Anyway, since then I've been searching for the album but haven't been able > to find it, and everything else of his I've seen has looked a bit risky to > invest in (pricy and involving ensembles I don't know). Can anyone offer > a review of any of his disks, or even a guess as to which one it is I'm > after? cheers f > > - I _think_ it's the one recorded at Washington Square Church around 1978; I was actually in attendance at the show, though I don't have the record. The closing piece was one similar to what you described. Might've been issued on India Navigation. Other than his work with the Revolutionary Ensemble, which is required listening, my favorites are his 'Space Minds, New Worlds, Survival of America' on Tomato (I believe reissued on disc) with George Lewis, Anthony Davis and others and his wonderful duo with Rashied Ali, 'Swift Are the Winds of Life' on Survival Records (this may be more difficult to come by). I've never been a big fan of his quasi-rock band Sting! (actually, the exclamation point was enough to put me off) and some of his stuff (like the duo with Muhal) tends toward the arid but, at his best, there's not an improvising violinist around who can touch him (IMHO, of course). Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dora Agiotis <stubb@globalserve.net> Subject: FNM Box set Date: 22 Apr 1998 22:07:18 -0400 If you want to bug Reprise Records to put out a Video Croissant 2 with all of the videos since A Small Victory, e-mail them and tell them. Also, tell them that they should release a box set of FNM B-sides and rarities. Tell them how much money they will make because of their recent break up. Another words, suck up really badly. But don't stop sending them mail until they do it. Dora Agiotis - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Gregg Bendian; was Re: Cecil Taylor Date: 23 Apr 1998 02:21:26 -0400 Ken Waxman wrote: > The prize, to me, is "Counterparts" (CIMP) I agree based on a live gig I heard, but I depise the CIMP approach to recording and can hardly stand to hear this disc. > "Interzone" (Eremite) is more problematic since Gregg limits > himself to vibes and glokenspiel and besides Dresser the CD also featur= es > Nels Cline on guitar and Alex Cline on drums/percussion. That's no limitation in my book. The Nels/Alex axis is an amazing thing = to behold (behear?). When I heard them live recently electric bassist Stomu Takeishi replaced Dresser. Dresser is amazing, it is agreed all around, = yet Gregg seemed to feel that the inclusion of an *electric* bass virtuoso op= ened up a whole 'nuther can of worms for the band... Of the recordings of Gregg I have, "Noir," "In Florescence" and Peter Br=F6tzmann's "Sacred Scrape" are my favorites. I like Interzone live bu= t have mixed feelings about the disc. I'm looking forward to the "Interstellar Spaces" recording quite a lot. The disc with Bailey is quite fine but th= ere are many Bailey discs I like better... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richie <richie@clearview.com.au> Subject: John Szwed's review of Dave Douglas's "Mahfouz" Date: 23 Apr 1998 14:13:34 +1000 (EST) This is a longish but really good review of the new Dave Douglas project "Mahfouz" which I talked about last week. Leave it to John Szwed (author of the Sun Ra biography) to say it a lot better than I did. This is in the new Village Voice: =========================================== When my editor first suggested last week that I should hear trumpeter Dave Douglas's meditations on the works of Naguib Mahfouz at Roulette, I thought he said Nassim Maalouf, the Lebanese four-valve trumpeter whose microtonal melodies turn up in many a French DJ's orientalist mixes. But no, it was Egypt's Nobel Prize-winning author whom Douglas was celebrating. An understandable error, since jazz musicians have been multicultural from the beginning, drawing inspiration from anywhere they could find it, their own mythical geographies as finely detailed as those of an Italo Calvino or a Jorge Luis Borges. In fact, it was just at the moment when classical music was beginning to abandon programmatic composition under the influence of neoclassicism that jazz arrived, sprinkling its titles and lyrics with the street names, railroads, junctions, deltas, coasts, and cities that made up its America. Soon whole countries and continents also surfaced in this music through the borrowed and imagined melodies and rhythms of Mexico, India, Cuba, Brazil, and Africa (which I don't have to remind you includes Egypt). Dave Douglas's own personal geography has that same grand sweep. His three recordings with guitarist Brad Schoeppach and drummer Jim Black as the Tiny Bell Trio (such as their latest--and my favorite--Live in Europe, on Arabesque Records) take their inspiration from Balkan instrumental music; his Strings Group projects (Parallel Worlds and Five on Soul Note) have worked the repertoires of Kurt Weill, Webern, and Stravinsky. But Douglas also draws from the books of Monk and Herbie Nichols, and two of his best recordings honor Booker Little (In Our Lifetime on New World) and Wayne Shorter (Stargazer on Arabesque). Even in a cosmopolitan music, his range marks him as singularly urbane. Douglas is something of a stealth success, having moved from sideman of choice to a leader who can now play almost anywhere, from the usual new-music haunts to mainstream jazz clubs. But he paid his way, working in every conceivable trumpet role in the bands of Horace Silver, Myra Melford, Don Byron's Mickey Katz project, Guy Klucevsek, Uri Caine, and most notably in John Zorn's Masada, where Douglas continues to walk the wire between free jazz and klezmer. In spite of the company he keeps Downtown, he is too persistently lyrical and melodic to be considered a postmodernist. If anything, he is pre-modernist, even romantic, in his respectful approach to sources, his willingness to treat any musics of the world as potential for covers. He plays with the bright, piercing tone of the classic lead trumpet, but also with the poise, emotion, and intelligence of a first-rate improviser (he's one of those musicians you can hear thinking). He possesses a style rich with a variety of vibrato and attack and the facility to push the horn to its limits with multi-octave jumps; and he draws from a full catalogue of buzzes, half-valve squeezes, and choked tones that mark the nexus where the blues and the 20th-century avant-garde meet unashamed. Last year he turned a corner with Sanctuary (Avant), an ambitious two-hour foray into electronics with a double quartet of samplers, trumpets, bassists, saxophones, and drums which updates the '60s experiments with double groups of John Coltrane and Ornette Coleman, and remarkably manages to sustain interest over two CDs. Douglas credits Coltrane and Coleman on the record, along with Arnold Schoenberg, Pierre Boulez, Boccaccio, and the Santa Maria del Fiore Cathedral of Florence, Italy. But given Douglas's affinity for Wayne Shorter's music and the electric rumble and shifting textures of this record, it would be hard to imagine that the spirit of Shorter's composition "Sanctuary'' (which concluded Miles Davis's Bitches Brew) is not also lurking somewhere in the mix. Despite the billing at Roulette last week, the compositions that Douglas presented were not noticeably programmatic: they seemed less walks through Cairo's Khan al-Khalili bazaar or the alleyways of Gamaliyya than a sonic fantasy in the strict musical sense of the term. He extended the directions he had begun on Sanctuary, and though the evening was heavy with electronics (Douglas and the ubiquitous Ikue Mori on samplers, along with Jamie Saft's keyboards and Kenny Wollesen's drums), the music was flush with melody, tone color, and dynamics, and even moments of fastidiousness and delicacy. And if I say that I most enjoyed those moments when Douglas picked up his horn, I mean it as no disrespect to his ambitions: it's just that I suspect that Douglas can play anything on his trumpet that he can get from his electronics, and probably anything else he wants to. As Amiri Baraka used to say, hear him now, and prepare to be moved. copyright 1998 John Szwed / Village Voice Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jan-Wen Lu <janwenlu@top2.ficnet.net.tw> Subject: New Mr. Bungle recording?! Date: 23 Apr 1998 19:40:54 +0800 From the mailing list of an online mailorder distributior "AB-CD", there's a new Mr. Bungle CD titled "Bowl of Chiley" released on Apr. 14. But on "Web of Mimicry"(the official Mr. Bungle site) that mentioned this CD is not authorized by members of Mr. Bungle. Could someone give me any information about it? Is it a booleg live recording or something else? I'm very curious!! Jan-Wen Lu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gauthier Michelle A <7mag2@qlink.queensu.ca> Subject: Re: New Mr. Bungle recording?! Date: 23 Apr 1998 08:30:05 -0400 (EDT) That recording-- "Bowl of Chiley" is a demo that was recorded in 1986. Mr.Bungle have never released this as a CD. Some scumball that got ahold of a copy (tape) took it to a company and said he had Mr.Bungles' permission-- which he DID NOT. This has caused a lot of problems-- the Cd was produced and sold at a few stores (may still be around for a limited time) but Mr.Bungle have requested it be pulled off the shelves-- it's totally illegitimate and they did not want that to be released. So that is what happenend. It's really bad quality and comes in a shittc cardboard case-- not worth it AT ALL. Mr.Bungle are in the "idea" process right now for their new album-- nothing concrete as of yet. m. On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, Jan-Wen Lu wrote: > >From the mailing list of an online mailorder distributior "AB-CD", > there's a new Mr. Bungle CD titled "Bowl of Chiley" released on Apr. 14. > But on "Web of Mimicry"(the official Mr. Bungle site) that mentioned > this CD is not authorized by members of Mr. Bungle. Could someone give > me any information about it? Is it a booleg live recording or something > else? I'm very curious!! > > > > Jan-Wen Lu > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Gregg Bendian; was Re: Cecil Taylor Date: 23 Apr 1998 08:30:31 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, Steve Smith wrote: > I agree based on a live gig I heard, but I depise the CIMP approach to > recording and can hardly stand to hear this disc. What is the CIMP approach? I was looking at an ad for them in CODA last night and it looked like they had some good stuff. Should I beware? - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Gregg Bendian; was Re: Cecil Taylor Date: 23 Apr 1998 07:22:50 PDT > >> The prize, to me, is "Counterparts" (CIMP) > >I agree based on a live gig I heard, but I depise the CIMP approach to >recording and can hardly stand to hear this disc. > I don't have any CIMPs but was eyeing the Paul Lytton album w/ electronics on his kit, among others (Joe McPhee etc.). What IS the "CIMP" approach? I seem to have heard buzz about this. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Oger <oger@worldnet.fr> Subject: Re: new derek bailey albums Date: 23 Apr 1998 16:32:23 +0200 (MET DST) About CD "No waiting" release (Derek Bailey+Joelle Leandre), distributors and mail order services in different countries are indicated on Potlatch label site : http://www.potlatch.digiweb.fr Jacques Oger (Paris) >Date: Wed, 22 Apr 1998 10:10:48 +0200 >From: Stefan Verstraeten <stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be> >Subject: new derek bailey albums > >Hi Zornies, >for those interested in derek bailey, check out the following new >albums: > >(1)take fakes & dead she dances (incus): new stuff recorded 1997 >(2)karyobin (chronoscope): recordings from 1968 with bailey, kenny >wheeler, evan parker >(3)tohjimbo (paratactile): new stuff from derek bailey & the ruins >(4)no wating (potlach): duo with joelle leandre > >I know it's hard to find those albums, but for those who live in Europe, >I mention that you can order them from derek bailey himself: > >The cd's cost 12=A3 (including p&p) and the adress is: > >INCUS RECORDS >14 DOWNS ROAD >LONDON >E5 8DS >ENGLAND > >Eric Clapton is God, no way, derek bailey is.................... >- --=20 >Stefan Verstraeten >Belgium (Europe) > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: kondo toshinori kondo + electronic horns Date: 23 Apr 1998 07:34:28 PDT Re: Recent electronic threads; Kondo; Kang; D. Douglas I have recently mentioned how much I like Toshinori Kondo's live electronics + trumpet on Brotzmann's spectacular DIE LIKE A DOG; there has been plenty of talk about the wired Miles Davis; people seem to enthuse over Evan Parker's Electroacoutic Project (I do, for sure); and the recent talk about Dave Douglas' Thoughts... group has me ready to relocate to NYC. And there's the long Musique concrete / electronic thread. So what other examples of improvised music meeting/using/being used by electronics can people think of? For one, I noticed that Kondo is slated for a new Tzadik release---but when? Has anyone heard the Kondo/Paul Lovens duets on Potorch (I haven't)? And what's the new NADEs album by Eyvind kang like? ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: improvised electronics (was kondo et al) Date: 23 Apr 1998 10:58:10 -0400 >>>>> "Scott" == Scott Handley <c123018@hotmail.com> writes: Scott> So what other examples of improvised music Scott> meeting/using/being used by electronics can people think Scott> of? For one, I noticed that Kondo is slated for a new Scott> Tzadik release---but when? Has anyone heard the Kondo/Paul Scott> Lovens duets on Potorch (I haven't)? And what's the new Scott> NADEs album by Eyvind kang like? Classic work includes Stockhausen's intuitive music, including From the Seven Days (some of which is still available) and Spiral (which is available by a couple of different players). I also think you can't go wrong with Gushwachs, an improvised release with the Swedish trio Gush (Mats Gustafsson on reeds, Sten Sandall on keyboards, and Raymond Strid on percussion) plus Phil Wachsmann on violin. All of them play electronics in addition, except maybe Gustafsson (and with his unusual technique, who can tell). Gushwachs is the closest I've heard to KS's intuitive music in recent years. The album is on Bead, available from Cadence. Then there's always King Ubu Orchestra, featuring Georg Katzer (whose concrete piece Aide Memoire is on ReR's electronics CD) on computer and electronics, plus Wachsmann again, and Paul Lytton, all on electronics, among others. I love this CD, one of the great textural groups where you can't tell who's playing what. Information on both these groups, with personnel and track listings, is at http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/ehome.html, the European Free Improvisers home page (a great site). --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Gregg Bendian; was Re: Cecil Taylor Date: 23 Apr 1998 15:16:26 -0400 (EDT) Essentially CIMP records everything live off the floor with no sweetening. I own a few CIMPs and lean towards the negative response. That's because when recording that way you need really strong material, with very little low or middle. So, IMHO the sound works quite well for the Gregg Bendian "Counterparts session (trumpet, reeds, bass and drums), but makes Rosewell Rudd's "The Unheard Herbie Nichols Vol. 1" (trombone, guitar and drums) spectacularly loggy and monochromic. (I saw the band live and it sounded nothing like that). The Marc Edwards disc. "Red Sprites and Blue Jets" is okay overall, with some dead spots, as is Sonny Simmons' "Judgement Day" and Frank Lowe's "Bodies and Soul". But the three horns in Lou Grassi's Saxtet have to be riffing wildly to make things move. I guess the overall advice is if you like a particular string saxophone player, he'll probably sound okay on CIMP. Other instruments: caveat emptor. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, Joseph S. Zitt wrote: > On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, Steve Smith wrote: > > > I agree based on a live gig I heard, but I depise the CIMP approach to > > recording and can hardly stand to hear this disc. > > What is the CIMP approach? I was looking at an ad for them in CODA last > night and it looked like they had some good stuff. Should I beware? > - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- > |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| > ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| > |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: improvised electronics (was kondo et al) Date: 23 Apr 1998 13:26:24 -0800 Scott Handley writes: > So what other examples of improvised music meeting/using/being used by > electronics can people think of? > You could go all the way back to the original source, Musica Elletronica Viva, although I have absolutely no idea what might be in print nowadays, if anything at all. What I own is a two LP set that adds Steve Lacy and Karl Berger to the group, but that was perhaps their final incarnation, except for the odd "reunion" event here and there. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Francisca" <monsalve@interaccess.cl> Subject: RE: Gregg Bendian; was Re: Cecil Taylor Date: 23 Apr 1998 12:02:33 -0400 If I may ask, what is so despicable about the CIMP approach to recording? I have never heard any of their releases -- so I wouldn't know. Francisca Monsalve@interaccess.cl ---------- De: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> A: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> CC: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET>; zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Asunto: Re: Gregg Bendian; was Re: Cecil Taylor Fecha: Thursday, April 23, 1998 2:21 AM Ken Waxman wrote: > The prize, to me, is "Counterparts" (CIMP) I agree based on a live gig I heard, but I depise the CIMP approach to recording and can hardly stand to hear this disc. > "Interzone" (Eremite) is more problematic since Gregg limits > himself to vibes and glokenspiel and besides Dresser the CD also features > Nels Cline on guitar and Alex Cline on drums/percussion. That's no limitation in my book. The Nels/Alex axis is an amazing thing to behold (behear?). When I heard them live recently electric bassist Stomu Takeishi replaced Dresser. Dresser is amazing, it is agreed all around, yet Gregg seemed to feel that the inclusion of an *electric* bass virtuoso opened up a whole 'nuther can of worms for the band... Of the recordings of Gregg I have, "Noir," "In Florescence" and Peter Br÷tzmann's "Sacred Scrape" are my favorites. I like Interzone live but have mixed feelings about the disc. I'm looking forward to the "Interstellar Spaces" recording quite a lot. The disc with Bailey is quite fine but there are many Bailey discs I like better... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ---------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: improvised electronics (was kondo et al) Date: 23 Apr 1998 14:28:21 -0700 On Thu, 23 Apr 1998 13:26:24 -0800 George Grella wrote: > > Scott Handley writes: > > > > So what other examples of improvised music meeting/using/being used by > > electronics can people think of? > > > > You could go all the way back to the original source, Musica Elletronica > Viva, although I have absolutely no idea what might be in print > nowadays, if anything at all. What I own is a two LP set that adds > Steve Lacy and Karl Berger to the group, but that was perhaps their ^^^^^^^^^^ That's the one on Horo. I know people who would give up on everything to put their hand on it :-). > final incarnation, except for the odd "reunion" event here and there. Just a warning: flee like the plague the following one (and it seems that there is another one by the same incarnation of MEV): *** - LEAVE THE CITY: Musica Elettronica Viva Actuel Volume 35. 1/ Message (M.E.V.) 2/ Cosmic Communion (M.E.V.) Recorded June 1970 Ivan Coaquette; Patricia Coaquette; Birgit Knabe; Nona Howard (side 2 only); Stephano Giolitti. 1971 (?) - Byg Record, 529.335 (LP) 1997 - Spalax (France), CD 14968 (CD) Note: the sleeve is of very strong mystico-Indian inspiration (effect of the late 60's, I guess :-). Note: explanation from Frederic Rzewski: In 1968/69 MEV experimented with audience participation and took on a number of new younger people, many of whom were not musicians. We wanted to see how far we could extend the idea of free improvisation, surrounding the core group with people who happened to be around. The group expanded and spawned separate communities. In the early 70's there were three MEV's: one in Rome, led by Alvin Curran; one in New York, where Richard Teitelbaum & I were based; and one in Paris, which was organized by the Coaquettes. Birgit and Nona were members of the Living Theatre, with whom we also hung out a lot, and Stefano was one of the younger acolytes. The record you are talking about was a kind of hippie child who chose MEV as its identity. Nobody ever found out really who was in MEV. At that time, it was part of a movement, and that part of it that was a part of the movement lived and died with that movement. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: CIMP recording Date: 23 Apr 1998 20:05:04 -0400 (EDT) On Thu, 23 Apr 1998, Joseph S. Zitt wrote: > What is the CIMP approach? I was looking at an ad for them in CODA last > night and it looked like they had some good stuff. Should I beware? Basically the approach is two mikes, no fiddling with the mix. People seem to either love it or hate it. Since others who have chimed in are in the latter camp, I'll mount a few words in its defense. I think these recordings sound more like live jazz really sounds than any other recordings I've ever heard. I've nothing against studio illusionism, but I'm gald someone's recording this way, and, on records like Frank Lowe's _Bodies and Soul_, it really pays off. My only complaint is that this really puts a limitation on the volume range at which these records can be listened to. Put it on much lower than the recording level, and any upright bass disappears. It wouldn't surprise me if it also varies more noticeably from one stereo system to another than most recordings, though it sounds fine on my very low-end system. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Well, You Needn't Date: 23 Apr 1998 20:09:01 -0400 (EDT) On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, DR S WILKIE wrote: > I haven't heard any of his big fight > records or concerts, but I rather like the idea: two free > improvisers, in the ring, rounds of three minutes of "fighting" > stopped by the bell. This dates back to the 80s, I believe. Did > Zorn and Previte steal it for Euclid's Nightmare? While they weren't duos, the performances on _Locus Solus_ from 1983 are already using very short timespans, and neither these nor the Zorn/Previte duos sound like fights to me, so I doubt it. Any idea how the Jenkins tracks are supposed to be fights? Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: David S. Ware Date: 23 Apr 1998 20:14:13 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 20 Apr 1998, Douglas Tapia wrote: > You know, I really dug all the David S. Ware recordings I had ever heard, > and I even own a few. Then, I saw the group live a couple of years back: <report of stunningly bad performance snipped> Sounds like Ware can be pretty spotty live. I saw him in Pittsburgh a couple of years ago, just after Suzie Ibarra joined the group. Shipp, Parker, and Ibarra played very well (although they sounded like they were still adjusting to the new lineup) but Ware's own playing was pretty dreadful: anemic and with very little sense of development, not nearly up to the level of his recordings I've heard. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Recent goodies Date: 23 Apr 1998 20:18:56 -0400 (EDT) On Fri, 17 Apr 1998, Paul Chavez wrote: > Someone had mentioned buying Pangaea. What's this one like? It's a step on from _Dark Magus_. Less relentlessly funky/noisy. It's got some lovely, almost ambient passages with Sonny Fortune on flute. Some was asking a while back about the "perfect" album. For me this is as close as it gets. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re:Cobra Date: 23 Apr 1998 20:22:39 -0400 (EDT) On Thu, 16 Apr 1998 peter_risser@cinfin.com wrote: > I think Cobra as much theatre as it is music. I would not hesitate to ever see > it live, if I got the chance again. Listening to a recording of cobra would be > like listening to a recording of Stomp, as far as I'm concerned, maybe > interesting, but you're only getting half the point. I was actually disappointed when I finally saw it live. Watching the prompter made the musical logic seem more arbitrary than listening to the music alone (or maybe the performance I saw was particularly musically incoherent). On the Hat Hut and Tokyo versions, some performers seem to be trying to keep some kind of continuity going through all the jumpcuts. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Re: CIMP recording Date: 23 Apr 1998 19:22:01 -0500 Tim Berne's Screwgun recordings are this way (at least the bloodcount) and I think they all sound great. 2 cents. Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: more mori Date: 23 Apr 1998 20:29:14 -0400 (EDT) I realize this is old news, but I'm playing catchup and I wanted to put my two cents in on this one. On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, Brent Burton wrote: > as far as "electronica" goes, i don't think anything i've heard mori do > on drum machines can touch autechre, who compose tracks that sound like > computers dying rhythmically - shards of sound. i didn't feel mori did > *enough* with the sampled drum sounds at that show or on the recent > _painted desert_ - they just sounded like drum machines. stiff. What I love about Mori's work (esp. _Garden_) is that she lets the drum machines sound like what they are instead of disguising them as something else. If you don't want it to sound like a drum machine, why use one? but then > again her approach seems completely different than autechre's. Precisely. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrick Stockton" <sheepherder@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: New Mr. Bungle? Date: 23 Apr 1998 18:18:21 -0700 in earlier messages it was stated that the "new" Mr. bungle comes in a shitty cardboard case and is not worth buying. the former being true does not necessarily guarantee the truth of the latter. sure it comes in a shitty case but it is definitly worth buying for fans of the band or Mike Patton completists. i picked it up at a local CD store here in portland for $10 i think. the clerk warned me that it was only four-track outtakes from the bands early days, which is evident from the 1987 copywrite and the picture of a younger, fatter Patton. i bought it anyway, thinking it might have some music worth having. additionally it had a '87 copywrite yet i had never seen it anywhere until 11 yrs after its alleged release. all things considered, it seemed to be something worth getting for 10 bucks. anyway...... it is valuable to any Bungle fans who might want to hear where it all came from. the songs are decidedly simpler and rawer, yet they still all have the essential Patton quality he brings to everything he works on. some of it is similar to "Merry go bye bye" (last song on disco vollante) except far less polished. if it is getting pulled off the shelves you might think of picking up a copy before you are stuck with a shitty recording of a shitty recording. late patrick in portland - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: CIMP recording Date: 24 Apr 1998 00:56:52 -0400 Christopher Hamilton wrote: > > What is the CIMP approach? I was looking at an ad for them in CODA la= st > > night and it looked like they had some good stuff. Should I beware? > > Basically the approach is two mikes, no fiddling with the mix. People > seem to either love it or hate it. Since others who have chimed in are= in > the latter camp, I'll mount a few words in its defense. [Succinct and > intelligent defense snipped] Chris's words re: audio verit=E9 are very well chosen and illustrate the = idea and the sound as well as anything I've read. That's been the general reception with the audiophile market, I would add, and I won't dispute th= e validity. I also appreciate that Chris mentions his low-end system, beca= use I was about to suggest that perhaps having the kind of top of the line syst= em that North Country Audio itself promotes (not that I'm implying any confl= ict of interest, either!). Maybe it's just the conditions under which I normally listen... at reason= ably low levels in a crowded apartment building with thin walls, or really lou= d in headphones. With neither of these approaches do I hear a sound to which = I care to listen. This is really unfortunate, because there are a great ma= ny discs on the label by artists I typically try to buy as a matter of cours= e (Joe McPhee and Evan Parker, for example) as well as musicians I'd really= love to hear in new settings (Kevin Norton, Brandon Evans, Chris Kelsey). But= I will just reiterate, since I opened this can of worms to begin with... *I= * can't stand the way these discs sound, but that's just me, and Chris give= s a really good alternative viewpoint. Ultimately I'd recommend you buy according to how stongly you feel compel= led by the artist or material, and then your ears will tell you if you want t= o go any further. After all, the one thing about which you will find no argum= ent is that CIMP has built up an amazing catalog in virtually no time at all.= I can think of few other labels that have built up such an impressive roste= r so quickly and consistently. I regret feeling no compulsion to ever hear another, but it's just me. Vote with your ears. The prosecution rests. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar Subject: WAYNE HORVITZ Date: 24 Apr 1998 08:21:20 -0300 Hello "Zornies", Fortunately Wayne Horvitz continues to put out fine albums here and there but unfortunately those albums are just below the surface of mainstream -public attention. I think Horvitz is one of the best composers and musicians of the decade so I ask myself if any of you would like to comment: 1)Is there any live recording of Wayne Horvitz's The President? 2)What are people thoughts on Pig Pen's "Live in Poland" and Horvitz's "Monologue"? 3)Are the Tim/Kerr Records and Cavity Search available at any store or would I contact a special address/place (just to get Pig Pen's CDs)? I would be very appreciative of whatever you could tell me. -Hugo - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re[2]: Well, You Needn't Date: 24 Apr 1998 13:30:27 UT > I haven't heard any of his big fight > records or concerts, but I rather like the idea: two free > improvisers, in the ring, rounds of three minutes of "fighting" > stopped by the bell. Dude, I fuckin' love this idea. Doesn't it sound cool? Instead of the typical jazz idea of conversation, try argument! Yeah! Maybe that's what we should do next time we're together. Take turns doing duet "arguments". Wow, I think the interaction would be super cool. You'd have to listen. CoolCoolCool! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re[2]:Cobra Date: 24 Apr 1998 13:28:16 UT << I was actually disappointed when I finally saw it live. Watching the prompter made the musical logic seem more arbitrary than listening to the music alone (or maybe the performance I saw was particularly musically incoherent). On the Hat Hut and Tokyo versions, some performers seem to be trying to keep some kind of continuity going through all the jumpcuts. Chris Hamilton >> Actually, the cobra show that I saw was amazing, not just because of the music, but because I finally saw what free improv could do. IT was at Oberlin and Zorn was conducting a group that had among others, Ribot, Coleman, Parkins, and shit, tons of others I can't remember. Anyway, the first set completely blew. It was a waste. A joke. They sucked. What can I say? I feel comfortable saying this wasn't just my perspective because about 2/3s of the way through, Zorn threw down the prompting cards and folded his arms. That's right, he quit. So, I think he agreed with me. So I went outside during intermission thinking well, at least I gave it a chance. Then we went back in and watched the second half and they fucking blew me away. It was amazing. I dunno what sort of pep talk they all got, but they came back out and rocked and jazzed and improved and they ruled completely. So, I imagine, like any true good jazz combo, and especially with free improv, I think, they have to really connect for it to have meaning. So maybe your group just wasn't connecting. The other thing I remember was Zeena was wearing biker shorts and we heckled her by shouting her name after every... tune? I guess. ZEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEENNNNNNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! Anyway, she hated it. Heh. PeterR - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Matthew Ostrowski at Roulette Date: 24 Apr 1998 09:32:18 -0500 NYC area z-listers might be interested in a concert at Roulette tomorrow evening (Saturday) featuring the electronics and sampler work of Matt Ostrowski (FMU listeners may recall his work as DJ using the nom Matty O). From what I've heard of his work, he tends to take simple sounds produced by household objects which are then manipulated, amplified stretched, etc. into unusual forms, somewhat along the lines of Xenakis' pieces like 'Boron'. Pretty good stuff. The piece being performed tomorrow is called 'Vertebra'; one hesitates to imagine the source... Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dylan Fitch (Eden Staffing)" <a-dfitch@microsoft.com> Subject: PainKiller's "unsung heroes" Date: 24 Apr 1998 08:17:03 -0700 Does anyone have information regarding the artists who designed all of PainKiller's cover art - e.g.: Tomoyo T.L. (KARATH=RAZAR)? DYLAN - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Re[2]:Cobra Date: 25 Apr 1998 01:34:32 +1000 > So, I imagine, like any true good jazz combo, and especially with free improv, I > think, they have to really connect for it to have meaning. So maybe your group > just wasn't connecting. But you can't do it "wrong" can you? I remember when I was performing some free improv somewhere, someone told me I "should" be playing something based on this chord, because that's what he was doing. I didn't really understand what he was thinking, if it's free improv, it should really be exactly that, improv and free. I admit it can sound better or worse to the audience if you approach it a different way, but usually from what I've experienced, the group has just as much fun no matter what happens (obviously unless they've got some guy like Zorn lecturing them in the interval). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re[3]:Cobra Date: 24 Apr 1998 17:40:31 UT But you can't do it "wrong" can you? I remember when I was performing some free improv somewhere, someone told me I "should" be playing something based on this chord, because that's what he was doing. I didn't really understand what he was thinking, if it's free improv, it should really be exactly that, improv and free. I admit it can sound better or worse to the audience if you approach it a different way, but usually from what I've experienced, the group has just as much fun no matter what happens (obviously unless they've got some guy like Zorn lecturing them in the interval). [pnr] Well, I wouldn't say wrong as in, wrong note, like the guy you were playing with. Sure, that's not free-improv then, is it? No, I mean wrong as in, not connecting and playing WITH each other. One of the big criticisms you see on this list is "detached" which makes for not-so-hot music. For the free-improv thing to really click, the musicians really need to be listening to each other and reacting to what the other members are playing. This is where you get the jazz "dialogue" thing going and that connectedness, to me anyway, is the heart of good improv. So, yeah, play whatever notes you want to play, but if we're listening to each other and we're connecting, it comes through in the music. That's my opinion anyway. PeterR - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: al.t@mtnhdw.com (Al T) Subject: RE: Mondo Mezzarro Date: 24 Apr 1998 01:04:06 GMT Hi, I sent a private message to James Douglas Knox and received a two replies...one of which he asked me to forward. I'm doing so and including an excerpt from the first in hopes he doesn't mind me forwarding that as well. I'm doing this, first because he is offering what seems a genuine apology, and, second, because his arguments seem perfectly well-reasoned once the invective is removed. Please note that I'm not necessarily endorsing any particular point and second I read the digest and am generally a few days behind so that trying to argue with me about something will have some definite turtle and hare aspects. ====== message two - whole ====== in it he quotes and replies to a gg msg (Dear Al, sorry to bother you again. I just looked over the archive and found this. I think I'm entitled a right of reply: I've tried to effect a more civil tone than in the past. Would you mind to forward it to the zorn-list? I'd appreciate it, but if not, no matter) I've no interest at all in reviving this argument, which I still don't think should ever have occured in the first place. And apologies (all) for my ill-considered and inchoate invective. But I was upset; not least by Mr Grella's imputation about my racial extraction (something Mr Grella might have expressed with perfect diction, but could only be guaranteed to provoke me. Is an offensive statement more "reasonable" when that statement veils itself in correct grammar and punctuation? Or vice versa? I find it curious how many people on this list are so *hung up* on normative codes of communication - standards used to invalidate marginal culture, and indeed, any expression of "illegitimate" thought or emotion, by consensus culture. *********************************************************************** (snip) > we can't > take Mezzrow's statement as a proven quality for the entire culture. Of I'm sorry; I never intended any such thing. I simply thought it was sad how much self-hatred he seemed to have (or at least: expressed in his book) And, as I've noted elsewhere: I certainly recognise the possibility that those are the sentiments of his ghostwriter, not even of Mezz' himself. But, from the start, my feelings were simply of sadness for Mezzrow as an individual. I imagine his self-esteem problems were the thing that directed him to spend so much of his life destroying himself with drugs, *instead of* recording and arranging the music he had such a gift for. Beyond that: I simply didn't realise it was unreasonable to draw an analogue between this recurrent theme in Mezzrow's book and (some of) the work of Anthony Coleman (e.g.), viz Selfhaters, and that quote from Adorno on jazz. But perhaps I wasn't explicit enough in drawing that connection - I just thought it was obvious. (snip) > views. Agree with what Mezzrow says, but just because he says it > doesn't make it true, or RIGHT. I don't agree with what Mezzrow says - I have never said that I did. But I do think "Really the Blues" is a reflection of what Mezzrow thought, felt, and experienced during his life: if not as an expression of "objective truth" (your term, not mine), then as a creative and intuitive response to his environment. If that later is true for this, or any other artist - and I think it is - then what of "social context" (my term, not yours) which you seemed to think bears no relation to music? I can understand that Mezzrow's feelings about his Jewish background are contentious. But I tried (not very succesfully, obviously) to make clear that those were simply his personal feelings, as expressed in his book (and so, maybe, more the work of his ghostwriter: for maybe it was he (I can't remember offhand: Bernard Wolfe?) who clutched this idealised image of Afro-american culture so close to his bossom). I don't feel like that about Jewish culture myself: and I mentioned Mezzrow because I felt he might have been some small kind of a precendent for Zorn: a Jewish guy, alienated by mainstream American society, with a vocation for music per se but, more specifically, a variant of jazz. Sorry, again, that I lost my block. But imputing Mezzrow's ideas (or, an ill-expressed version of some of the things in "his" book) is one thing. Attributing a *race* to me: frankly, I found that highly offensive. Dead-sorry I got so wound up about it (and appalled that in my anger I responded in turn). ======= msg 1 excerpted ======= the >'s quote me > You know, I'm not entirely sure what the points of disagreement between you and > this Grella guy are. (Something about how Mezzrow related to his jewish > heritage?) The whole thing is stupid. When I first mentioned Mezzrow, I just made some off-hand remark about self-hatred, and his identification with (an idealised image of) afro-american culture over his own Jewish roots. I was thinking: in relation to (Tzadik recording artist) Anthony Coleman's "Selfhaters", and the quote Coleman used from Theodor Adorno on the sleeve of that disc. Didn't intend any harm. Grella seems to have taken umbrage with me saying something about cultural heritage. OK, granted; I can understand how this can be a volatile subject. But I tried to explain that I was just relaying Mezz's express point of view, as it reads crystal-clear in his book. Grella certainly got upset about my suggestion that Mezzrow's work might have had any social context. Well, dunno; at that point I just dismissed him out-of-hand. That's just daft. And my next (and final) posting on the subject I really lost my cool. Sorry to have descended into a morass of ill-expressed emotion... > But your approach to the discussion isn't helping make your points. Your insults > don't make your point clearer, nor make his (whatever it was) any less tenable, > or develop anything beyond inclining me to write you off as a flaming asshole > and simply gong your postings. Which means I don't even hear your side. And I > would just as soon hear it if I don't have to wade through three or four lines > of you screaming fuck for every sentence that contains some actual content. Sorry if I was inchoate and offensive - I feel perfectly sick about that myself. But I'm off that damn list now, and don't intend to be back for a while. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrick Stockton" <sheepherder@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Frisell, Baron Date: 24 Apr 1998 12:16:11 -0700 incase there are any portlanders (even southern Wash.), on this newgroup, Bill Frisell and Joey Baron are playing tonight a t the Alladin (east side). anyone else know of this lineup? i figured he was touring the "Gone.....train" lineup. at least thats what he was doing in the seattle area over the last few weeks. thanks, patrick in portland - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nathaniel Dorward <ndorward@is2.dal.ca> Subject: Re: CIMP recording Date: 24 Apr 1998 17:21:10 -0300 (ADT) a further 2 cents: I used to run a jazz radio show & made a point of never playing CIMP discs. The volume level would sometimes drop so low a listener could think the station had dropped off the air; at other times it would be quite high. Eventually I got tired of twiddling the volume knob up and down. --N * Nate Dorward (ndorward@is2.dal.ca) website: http://is2.dal.ca/~ndorward/ * And I hear what's missing there music is core of the missing the code of fly time --Clark Coolidge - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Re[2]:Cobra Date: 24 Apr 1998 18:08:33 -0400 (EDT) On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, Julian wrote: > I admit it can sound better or worse to the > audience if you approach it a different way, but usually from what I've > experienced, the group has just as much fun no matter what happens > (obviously unless they've got some guy like Zorn lecturing them in the > interval). There may not be any "rules" but most free improvisors I've dealt with certainly think they can play well or badly. And I generally feel pretty miserable after a bad performance, and embarrassed as hell to be on stage during one. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: PainKiller's "unsung heroes" Date: 24 Apr 1998 18:05:27 -0400 (EDT) > Does anyone have information regarding the artists who designed all of > PainKiller's cover art - e.g.: Tomoyo T.L. (KARATH=RAZAR)? ...not to mention Locus Solus and (i think) Heretic, Naked City, Leng T'Che, Grand Guignol... -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: CIMP recording Date: 24 Apr 1998 18:08:58 -0400 (EDT) > a further 2 cents: I used to run a jazz radio show & made a point of never > playing CIMP discs. The volume level would sometimes drop so low a > listener could think the station had dropped off the air; at other times > it would be quite high. Eventually I got tired of twiddling the volume > knob up and down. --N a radio station without a compressor?? -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: malczews@stars1.ast.lmco.com (Frank Malczewski) Subject: Re: jcoa Date: 24 Apr 1998 19:35:23 -0600 More Kharma titles: Roland Alexander: Live At The Axis (PK-5) Jerome Cooper, Kalaparusha & Frank Lowe: Positions (PK 3/4) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gauthier Michelle A <7mag2@qlink.queensu.ca> Subject: Re: PainKiller's "unsung heroes" Date: 24 Apr 1998 22:11:02 -0400 (EDT) The artist is a woman named Tanaka Tomoyo-- she lives in NYC. She is very talented-- did tons of Zorn's albums, as well as designing Mr. Bungle's first album. I'm not sure what she is up to presently... The name KARATH=RAZAR is the name of her company. m. On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, ia zha nah er vesen wrote: > > Does anyone have information regarding the artists who designed all of > > PainKiller's cover art - e.g.: Tomoyo T.L. (KARATH=RAZAR)? > > ...not to mention Locus Solus and (i think) Heretic, Naked City, Leng > T'Che, Grand Guignol... > > -jascha > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Snap" <qfwfqf@email.msn.com> Subject: Max Roach Quartet Date: 26 Apr 1998 00:51:13 -0400 Would anyone know, by chance, of a hardbop piece by the Max Roach Quartet in which Mr. Roach projects a frenetic drum solo/ostinato over snippets of a Martin Luther King Jr. speech? I have the song recorded completely, and, third-shift disk jockeys being as negligent as they can be, no title. A clue would be deeply appreciated. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Felix" <jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt> Subject: Kristallnacht Date: 24 Apr 1998 23:54:37 +0200 I just got "Kristallnacht" and am wondering how the hell did I miss it in the past. The album is simply geniusly composed. It depresses you in a way that you can't help it. I dare to say that I like "Kristallnacht" better than (dare I say it, dare I say it) "Circle Maker" (Wait! Don't flame me yet!!). I mean, Circle Maker is very very good, but it's basically re-interpretation of already interpreted musics. While "Kristallnacht", well, the person who advised it to me (sorry, can't remember who he/she was but thanks alot, anyway), was right about the "infamous second track". Never Again is to hear and feel the pain of those people during the Holocaust. I kind of perceive Kristallnacht as Zorn's dedication to the dead in the WW2... Simply genius... Simply genius... I also picked up Kiss My Jazz's latest and was wondering how many here know and apreciate Kiss My Jazz. Felix Patiently Waiting for Winter jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Snap" <qfwfqf@email.msn.com> Subject: Re: Kristallnacht Date: 26 Apr 1998 08:17:03 -0400 Kristallnacht indeed is a melancholically lovely album; I claim the first track, "Shtetl", to be my favorite Zorn piece ever. Unsettling. I may stand alone when saying this, but I always saw the Masada material as an extension of Kristallnacht, especially the chamber pieces on Bar Kokhba and The Circle Maker. Maybe that was the idea, or maybe not. Dunno. -----Original Message----- >I just got "Kristallnacht" and am wondering how the hell did I miss it in >the past. The album is simply geniusly composed. It depresses you in a way >that you can't help it. I dare to say that I like "Kristallnacht" better >than (dare I say it, dare I say it) "Circle Maker" (Wait! Don't flame me >yet!!). I mean, Circle Maker is very very good, but it's basically >re-interpretation of already interpreted musics. While "Kristallnacht", >well, the person who advised it to me (sorry, can't remember who he/she was >but thanks alot, anyway), was right about the "infamous second track". Never >Again is to hear and feel the pain of those people during the Holocaust. I >kind of perceive Kristallnacht as Zorn's dedication to the dead in the >WW2... Simply genius... Simply genius... > >I also picked up Kiss My Jazz's latest and was wondering how many here know >and apreciate Kiss My Jazz. > >Felix >Patiently Waiting for Winter >jonasfel@mail.telepac.pt > > >- > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: ground zero volume 3 Date: 25 Apr 1998 09:42:28 -0400 Anyone heard volume 3 of the Ground Zero Consume series yet? Reviews please? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> Subject: Recent Goodies Date: 25 Apr 1998 11:29:06 -0400 Coupla new things and three that have been on my list for a while: AMM--Newfoundland Finally able to take them off the top of my list of groups I hadn't gotten around to really hearing (I'd ordered this from Cadence about three years ago but they were out of it at the time) and now, of course, I'm kicking myself. Gorgeous record, creates a very unique sense of space. Much more tonal than I expected; is this perhaps one of their more 'accessible' recordings? I do think the proceedings could have been cut off at around an hour, just before the final loudish section where, IMHO, the playing 'degenerates' into a more standard free improv type of thing. Derek Bailey/Joelle Leandre--No Waiting Pretty nice, Bailey in fine form. I'm still not convinced by Leandre's playing. Her sound seems lacking in individuality and richness to these ears. I've heard her in several contexts now (though never as 'leader') and nothing's really stood out. Any suggestions? Dragon Blue--Hades Park New Avant release with a band led (?) by singer Tenko along with Yoshihide, Kato Hideki and two members of Tipographica. A hit and miss affair; when the band gets rolling, it chugs along nicely, greatly abetted by Otomo's creative turntables. Other times, it gets a bit static, the guitar and drums getting into kind of a, how should I describe it, post-71 Zappa mode--not my cup of tea. Mats Gustaffson--Parrot Fish Eye My first Gustaffson and I'll have to withhold judgment on his playing, not knowing if this is a typical outing. I get more a sense of technical exercises than deep, rich musicality here, a common problem I find with a lot of younger free players (sometimes referred to a borahbergmanitis), but I'd be interested in hearing him in other contexts. Iannis Xenakis--Kraanerg This is the Etcetera recording, not the DJ Spooky version (anyone care to compare the two?). Somewhat less elemental and earth-shattering than I'd been led to believe, but it does build up a head of steam. To me, the recording seems flat and even fluctuating at times, though perhaps thats part of the original taped portion of the score. It strikes me as something that could be outstandingly performed by an orchestra of strong improvisers, say the LJCO. In fact, it would seem a natural fit for Guy. Some items I saw but didn't make the cut this time: Joe McPhee As Serious As Your Life (hatology) Eyvind Kang (the new Tzadik release) Luc Ferrari " " " JZ Weird Little Boy I don't know, but something puts me off about this. Re-issues of note that will eventually make their way into my collection: Ornette Science Fiction and Skies of America--both on Japanese Sony for $22 at Other Music. Anyone know how good a remastering job was done on these? R. Mitchell Old/Quartet Also a Japanese issue W. Breuker Doodzonde/Twee Vroumen Two fun soundtracks from the early 70's. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Hale <jhale@sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: Max Roach Quartet Date: 25 Apr 1998 11:40:46 -0500 Snap wrote: > > Would anyone know, by chance, of a hardbop piece by the Max Roach Quartet in > which Mr. Roach projects a frenetic drum solo/ostinato over snippets of a > Martin Luther King Jr. speech? It's on a Columbia album called Chattahoochie Red from 1981. James Hale - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: Recent Goodies Date: 25 Apr 1998 12:54:09 -0400 Brian Olewnick wrote: > > Coupla new things and three that have been on my list for a while: > > AMM--Newfoundland I was finally able to take them off the top of my "gotta hear soon" list too by getting THE CRYPT and the AMM III disc (Rowe/Prevost). I think these are the two most different-from-standard-AMM recordings out there. The Crypt is quite good but incredibly noisy (can't listen to it often) and I think AMM III is pretty lousy (Rowe in more standard guitar form than prepared tabletop). I did get SUPERSESSION a little while back which is sort of a meeting of the classic groupings of AMM and the Parker/Guy/Lytton trio (lineup=Rowe/Prevost/Parker/Guy). Super disc! One of those groupings where every player is serving the purpose of a truly collective sound. Great stuff! though only clocking in at under 40 min. > Derek Bailey/Joelle Leandre--No Waiting Pretty nice, Bailey in fine > form. I'm still not convinced by Leandre's playing. Her sound seems > lacking in individuality and richness to these ears. I've heard her in > several contexts now (though never as 'leader') and nothing's really > stood out. Any suggestions? Though I haven't heard it, her duo with violinist Carlos Zingaro on In Situ could very well be incredible. It's been on my "should get soon" list for a while. I love Zingaro's solo disc on that same label though the recording is a bit echoey - an incredible player! There's also a new HatArt disc by Urs Leimgruber, Joelle Leandre & Fritz Hauser which I should get. I really liked Leimgruber's previous disc on that label with this same lineup except Adelhard Roidinger on bass. Not anti-coherent like a lot of free-improv... Roidinger has a very similar tone to Dave Holland. Anyone heard Leimgruber's solo stuff? I know he is well-documented as a solo performer. > Mats Gustaffson--Parrot Fish Eye My first Gustaffson and I'll have to > withhold judgment on his playing, not knowing if this is a typical > outing. I get more a sense of technical exercises than deep, rich > musicality here, a common problem I find with a lot of younger free > players (sometimes referred to a borahbergmanitis), but I'd be > interested in hearing him in other contexts. I just got my first Gustafsson a couple weeks ago which was "Mouth Eating Trees And Related Activities' with Barry Guy and Paul Lovens on OkkaDisk. I was really impressed with Gustafsson! He's incredibly expressive and has some great bleating and tongue clucking ability. He literally blurs the line between voice and instrument. I had to order a couple more by him... (haven't heard Parrot Fish Eye though). I think his style would have particular appeal to Zorn fans. > Iannis Xenakis--Kraanerg This is the Etcetera recording, not the DJ > Spooky version (anyone care to compare the two?). Somewhat less > elemental and earth-shattering than I'd been led to believe, but it does > build up a head of steam. To me, the recording seems flat and even > fluctuating at times, though perhaps thats part of the original taped > portion of the score. I haven't heard this version but the DJ Spooky version is VERY full sounding. > Luc Ferrari " " " Anyone have this one yet? Anyone know if his soundtrack to "Chronopolis" is available on CD? -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William R Baker <wrb@christa.unh.edu> Subject: Re: knitting factory Date: 25 Apr 1998 13:33:12 -0400 (EDT) next week will be my first trip to the knit and I was wondering what they do as far as recording devices go. is it simply not allowed? unchecked? can you get by if you plan well? or do they frisk you at the door? thanks, bacos - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David J. Keffer" <keffer@shell.planetc.com> Subject: Recent Goodies: Fushitsusha, Braxton Date: 25 Apr 1998 14:54:34 -0400 Hello Folks on the Zorn-list, I have heard the new Fushitsusha on Charnel Music, "Gold Blood" and will contribute a review. It's a recording from a live performance in San Francisco in November, 1996. The sound on "Gold Blood" is pure Fushitsusha. It's middle of the road density for Fushitsusha--not as noisy as "The Caution Appears" but without the quiet sections on the PSF untitled double live discs, PSF 15~16. "Gold Blood" is a 72-minute snippet from the performance. I say snippet because the performance must have been longer than 70 minutes. As Keiji Haino said in an interview with Jon Abbey, "We need three hours." (http://www.planetc.com/users/keffer/haino/text/hk_int1.html) I saw Fushitsusha play in the same month (in Chicago) and they played three hours. In Chicago, they were apparently allotted about 2 hours for their slot (third in a lineup of 5 bands, I think) so they played a 45 minute sound check before the opening band, then played 2 hours and 15 minutes in their slot. What would really make the world a better place is a video of the Fushitsusha performance at the Chicago show, the third night of the table of the elements festival # 2. Haino had some both mesmerizing and amusing visual theatrics at that show. Anyway, the sound quality on "Gold Blood" is straight from the mixer, so the crowd noise is absent, which is a plus, since the last Fushitsusha live release, "Purple Trap" on Blast First/Disobey has an abysmal sound quality. The music on "Purple Trap" is fantastic but the constant conversation of patrons in the bar is prominent in the mix. Lastly, "Gold Blood" has, as always, great titles to the tracks, like: 1. The halation born between you and I who were doomed to appear in form 4. If I had been showered in gold blood, wouldn't my prayer have been answered? 5. This trembling in my core, with which of your cells couldn't it hold hands! Now really lastly, "Gold Blood" is the first Fushitsusha release on a North American Label, so the price in the U.S. is low, relative to the Japanese and European imports. The other recording I picked up is Anthony Braxton's "5 Pieces 1975" [with Braxton (saxophones, clarinets, and flutes), Kenny Wheeler (trumpet), Dave Holland (bass), and Barry Altschul (drums)] at a used record store in Knoxville, Tennessee. It's a nice blend of Jazz and free improv. David K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: gustaffson (was re: goodies) Date: 25 Apr 1998 13:20:54 PDT >Mats Gustaffson--Parrot Fish Eye My first Gustaffson and I'll have to >withhold judgment on his playing, not knowing if this is a typical >outing. I get more a sense of technical exercises than deep, rich >musicality here, a common problem I find with a lot of younger free >players (sometimes referred to a borahbergmanitis), but I'd be >interested in hearing him in other contexts. Just 1.5 cents, for the record: I heard most of a friend's Gryffsgryffsgryffsgryys (Marilyn Crispell, Gustafsson, Barry Guy, Raymond Strid--MUSIC & ARTS, 1997?) and was REALLY impressed. I also saw him solo live and it was the BOMB. I own PARROT FISH EYE and don't like it. There are semireliable rumors that Okka will soon release a multidisc (?) set of the Tentet performances in Chicago from about a year ago, including Brotzmann, Gustafsson, Joe McPhee, Ken Vandermark, Mars Williams, Kent Kessler, Hamid Drake, and some other people. I heard this from McPhee and someone else. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Dave" <torturegarden@mailexcite.com> Subject: Dark River Date: 25 Apr 1998 17:21:58 -0700 I just got new speakers today with 12" woofers and great bass. My old ones were small bookshelf ones. I put on the Zorn disc "Redbird" and the piece "Dark River" shook the house! It was amazing. My cats started acting very bizarre. Free web-based email, Forever, From anywhere! http://www.mailexcite.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Recent Goodies Date: 25 Apr 1998 17:37:47 -0400 Brian Olewnick wrote: > Ornette Science Fiction and Skies of America--both on Japanese > Sony for $22 at Other Music. Anyone know how good a > remastering job was done on these? This reminds me: when the Caravan of Dreams first opened, I heard that they'd recorded a new version of Skies of America that they were going to release on their (short-lived) label. Did that ever appear anywhere? I also once saw a documentary about Ornette made at that time by... uh... Shirley Clarke?... which featured footage of that concert, and heard that it was out on video. What was it called, and is it available? Science Fiction, I believe, contains one of my favorite Ornette tracks, the song "All My Life", sung by Asha Puthli (I think). Is there a good Ornette discography online? www.harmolodic.com had a good start of a site, but dropped the ball a while back... -- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen drury <stevedrury@mindspring.com> Subject: Re:Cobra Date: 25 Apr 1998 22:30:32 -0400 At 09:28 AM 4/25/98 -0600, you wrote: >But you can't do it "wrong" can you? I know I'm taking the above quote out of context, but I think it's important to remember "Cobra" is not free jazz, or a blowing session, or unstructured. It's a composition, and it definitely is possible to make mistakes. It's also possible to play it entirely correctly and still suck, just like playing a Beethoven string quartet. --steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Recent Goodies Date: 26 Apr 1998 02:50:17 -0400 (EDT) On Sat, 25 Apr 1998, Joseph Zitt wrote: > I also once saw a documentary about Ornette made at that time by... > uh... Shirley Clarke?... which featured footage of that concert, and > heard that it was out on video. What was it called, and is it > available? The title is _Ornette: Made In America_, I believe. Don't know if it's commercially available. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Re: Weird Little Boy Date: 26 Apr 1998 03:20:23 -0400 (EDT) I was fairly enthusiastic in the review I gave a few days ago, but I think if I'd paid $20 I wouldn't have enjoyed it so much. In fact, it does seem to be kind of half baked. Either Patton/Zorn are trying to see what they can get away with or they think they can get away w/ halfway efforts such as this. Maybe with all the albums Zorn puts out, he should put stickers on them saying "I care about this album", "I sort of care about this album", and "This is more of a 'statement' than something you will want to listen to very much". As for CIMP vs. Screwgun, they must be doing something different b/c the Screwgun thingies sound a lot more alive. I would be surprised to hear Berne start talking about audiophile sound or anything like that. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Weird Little Boy Date: 26 Apr 1998 17:23:50 +1000 > I was fairly enthusiastic in the review I gave a few days ago, but I think > if I'd paid $20 I wouldn't have enjoyed it so much. In fact, it does seem > to be kind of half baked. Either Patton/Zorn are trying to see what they > can get away with or they think they can get away w/ halfway efforts such > as this. Maybe with all the albums Zorn puts out, he should put stickers > on them Stuff on the Circle Maker (just to take an example) don't really take that much effort either, they just come out sounding nicer, that's all. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: gustaffson (was re: goodies) Date: 26 Apr 1998 14:40:35 -0400 Scott Handley wrote: > > >Mats Gustaffson--Parrot Fish Eye My first Gustaffson and I'll have to > >withhold judgment on his playing, not knowing if this is a typical > >outing. I get more a sense of technical exercises than deep, rich > >musicality here, a common problem I find with a lot of younger free > >players (sometimes referred to a borahbergmanitis), but I'd be > >interested in hearing him in other contexts. > > Just 1.5 cents, for the record: > > I heard most of a friend's Gryffsgryffsgryffsgryys (Marilyn Crispell, > Gustafsson, Barry Guy, Raymond Strid--MUSIC & ARTS, 1997?) and was > REALLY impressed. I also saw him solo live and it was the BOMB. I own > PARROT FISH EYE and don't like it. There are semireliable rumors that > Okka will soon release a multidisc (?) set of the Tentet performances in > Chicago from about a year ago, including Brotzmann, Gustafsson, Joe > McPhee, Ken Vandermark, Mars Williams, Kent Kessler, Hamid Drake, and > some other people. I heard this from McPhee and someone else. According to the European Free Improv page, this will be a 3CD set on OkkaDisk. David Weinstein has a new disc on Avant called PERFUME (Avan-020). Anyone checked it out? -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: gustaffson (was re: goodies) Date: 26 Apr 1998 13:49:31 -0700 On Sun, 26 Apr 1998 14:40:35 -0400 Tom Pratt wrote: > > David Weinstein has a new disc on Avant called PERFUME (Avan-020). > Anyone checked it out? That's strange. The following one was planned a long time ago: 21 - BICYCLOPEDIA: David Weinstein (???? - Avant, Avan 021 (CD)) but David stopped making music few years ago and the project died. Could PERFUME be that one? Or is it a new project (implying that David is back)? Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: avant/DIW Date: 26 Apr 1998 14:03:23 -0700 On Mon, 20 Apr 1998 01:22:25 -0400 Steve Smith wrote: > > Zorn does from time to time release records on DIW rather than Avant or Tzadik; > notably, the entire Masada ouevre has been on DIW. I won't speculate as to > why. I asked him the question and his answer was that it was a matter of money. A project requiring more that $5000 would end up on Avant; less or equal on Tzadik (this was three years ago). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "m. rizzi" <rizzi@netcom.com> Subject: NYC bound Date: 26 Apr 1998 14:12:22 -0700 (PDT) Hello Compadres, I'll in NYC for the next 10 days or so. Going to see Masada on Tues. and Wed. nights. Should any fellow list freaks want to hook up, drop me a note (I expect NY has a few Internet Cafes I can check email from) or just look for the blue-haired guy with the beardlet under his lip. cheers, mike rizzi -- rizzi@netcom.com -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com "Another nerd with a soulpatch" -------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 ------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Re[3]:Cobra Date: 26 Apr 1998 16:18:43 -0700 On Fri, 24 Apr 1998 17:40:31 UT peter_risser@cinfin.com wrote: > > > But you can't do it "wrong" can you? I remember when I was performing some > free improv somewhere, someone told me I "should" be playing something > based on this chord, because that's what he was doing. I didn't really > understand what he was thinking, if it's free improv, it should really be ^^^^^^^^^^^ The expression "free improv" is quite interesting. On one side, it is used to talk about a kind of improv that was initiated by the British "school" which started in the late '60s with people like Derek Bailey, Evan Parker, Paul Rutherford, Tony Oxley, etc. Following Bailey's taxinomy, it is also known as "non-idiomatic" improvisation (as opposed to free jazz and jazz improvisation). By extension, artists following similar cannon are classified as free improvisers. On the younger generation side, "free improv" means what the two words imply (as Peter does): do what you want and no rules at all. There is a popular belief (...) that people not knowing each others can meet for one evening, and, without rehearsing at all and no predefined rules, can produce "magic moments with telepathic interaction". I also believed that for a long time, until I realized that the best "free improv" was done by artists that really knew each others very well and improvised in a fairly well-defined form (because you can immediately recognize it). For example, the trio Parker/Guy/Lytton is usually considered as one of the best free improv group. Needless to say that what this group does does not match at all the second definition of "free improv". No wonder why people can argue so long and do not understand each others :-). > exactly that, improv and free. I admit it can sound better or worse to the > audience if you approach it a different way, but usually from what I've > experienced, the group has just as much fun no matter what happens ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ And this is the point, right? That the band has fun... No matter what the audience can think? Sorry to be cynical, but these "free improv" situations look more an more to me like group therapy, where the need for an audience become secondary, as long as the protagonists have fun. > (obviously unless they've got some guy like Zorn lecturing them in the > interval). > > [pnr] > Well, I wouldn't say wrong as in, wrong note, like the guy you were playing > with. Sure, that's not free-improv then, is it? No, I mean wrong as in, not > connecting and playing WITH each other. One of the big criticisms you see on > this list is "detached" which makes for not-so-hot music. For the free-improv > thing to really click, the musicians really need to be listening to each other > and reacting to what the other members are playing. This is where you get the > jazz "dialogue" thing going and that connectedness, to me anyway, is the heart > of good improv. > > So, yeah, play whatever notes you want to play, but if we're listening to each > other and we're connecting, it comes through in the music. > > That's my opinion anyway. > > PeterR > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Re: Weird Little Boy Date: 26 Apr 1998 19:27:10 -0400 (EDT) > > Stuff on the Circle Maker (just to take an example) don't really take that > much effort either, they just come out sounding nicer, that's all. > > I kind of feel that way too. I guess it comes down to how much of something you want to hear, or from Zorn's perspective it is maybe more a matter of documenting what he is doing. Certainly other people take this approach- I just wonder how for example anyone could ever keep up with all of the stuff Anthony Braxton puts out, and if putting so much stuff out has the effect of diluting the quality of things. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2 <JonAbbey2@aol.com> Subject: Re: Weird Little Boy Date: 26 Apr 1998 21:20:36 EDT In a message dated 4/26/98 7:30:57 PM, wyork@email.unc.edu wrote: <<I just wonder how for example anyone could ever keep up with all of the stuff Anthony Braxton puts out, and if putting so much stuff out has the effect of diluting the quality of things.>> I think it depends on the artist. Evan Parker puts out as many records as Braxton or Zorn and manages to maintain a remarkably high level of quality and originality. I think part of it is self-discipline; an artist having the self- awareness to realize which of his project ideas are the most viable. The new Parker record on Leo, Live at Les Instants Chavires, is Parker's most successful foray into electronics yet. Other recent Parker faves include Most Materiall (Matchless), 2 CDs of duos with Eddie Prevost, and Natives And Aliens (Leo), with Barry Guy, Paul Lytton, and Marilyn Crispell. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> Subject: Re: Weird Little Boy Date: 26 Apr 1998 21:54:21 -0400 Julian wrote: > Stuff on the Circle Maker (just to take an example) don't really take that > much effort either, they just come out sounding nicer, that's all. Well, one obvious question: How do you know they "don't really take that much effort"? I take it you're not merely referring to the sweat factor, a quaint notion that Braxton, for many years now, has been attempting to put to rest (though, I'd imagine several of the pieces on 'Circle Maker' drew forth a few beads!), Are you implying that simply because many of the songs therein are beautiful in a traditional manner, that they must have been easy to compose? Or that because JZ produces these melodies in such profusion that they must pose no more difficulty to him than burping? I'm no musician, but as a painter, I'll tell you that slapping something with 'angst' on a canvas is a walk in the park compared to creating something that looks as if it were effortless. So, until every other downtown wannabe starts producing stuff the caliber of the Masada songbook, I'm quite willing to give old Zorno the benefit of the doubt. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: HSpaceboy <HSpaceboy@aol.com> Subject: Electronic horns Date: 26 Apr 1998 23:31:58 EDT I had the same Barcus Berry transducer pick up that Miles used installed on my trombone (it involved drilling into the mouthpiece). The damn thing only picked up the slide gliding from position to position and then it died. Anyway, if anyone knows of a less painful way to use a pick up with brass I'd appreciate your suggestions. -Mark - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian Curwin" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Re[3]:Cobra Date: 27 Apr 1998 20:30:24 +1000 > On the younger generation side, "free improv" means what the two words > imply (as Peter does): do what you want and no rules at all. The definition that I was following when I was talking about my experiences with "free improv" was a slight variation on what you seem to imply here. I wouldn't say there are no rules. You obviously have to make an effort to "fit in" or complement the others' playing. And the people I was doing the improv with mostly had the musical ability to do this, and not just "do what you want". I mean, I guess you have to have a strong sense of rhythm, and usually perfect or relative pitch can help - most of us were jazz musicians so we had these things covered pretty well. So, not wanting to sound pretentious or anything, I guess it sounded pretty good. I would imagine something with absolutely no rules could sound a bit off. Do you mean the players could totally ignore the other players if they wanted to? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re[4]:Cobra Date: 27 Apr 1998 13:31:42 UT << On the younger generation side, "free improv" means what the two words imply (as Peter does): do what you want and no rules at all. >> Part of that is my lack of knowledge of the history, which is a shame. I tend to use free improv and free jazz interchangably. << There is a popular belief (...) that people not knowing each others can meet for one evening, and, without rehearsing at all and no predefined rules, can produce "magic moments with telepathic interaction". I also believed that for a long time, until I realized that the best "free improv" was done by artists that really knew each others very well and improvised in a fairly well-defined form (because you can immediately recognize it). For example, the trio Parker/Guy/Lytton is usually considered as one of the best free improv group. Needless to say that what this group does does not match at all the second definition of "free improv". >> See, I think that these magic moments can happen, but it's certainly not a given. In fact, I'd say it's usually the other way, which is why I railed against free improv for so long. The best free improv, as I said, comes with a certain connectedness. The best way to get that is to practice. I used to be in a band where we'd break into free moments and they only got better and better as time went on because we'd practice playing free together. It's a good thing. << > exactly that, improv and free. I admit it can sound better or worse to the > audience if you approach it a different way, but usually from what I've > experienced, the group has just as much fun no matter what happens ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ And this is the point, right? That the band has fun... No matter what the audience can think? >> Well, that is being a little cynical. Who says you need an audience at all? Some of the best jamming moments I've ever had has been when myself and ten of my friends gather in a room and "improv". Usually it's just noise, but sometimes it's amazing, and the point is primarily that we have fun. Would I want to inflict that on anyone? No. Also, I'm not propping fun over musical experience, but if you're not having a good time, or enjoying what you're doing, chances are the music is going to suffer. I dunno. I agree though that practice is necessary for serious free improv and that the magical moments of a momentary midnight meeting are mostly myth. (How's that for alliteration?) === << So, not wanting to sound pretentious or anything, I guess it sounded pretty good. I would imagine something with absolutely no rules could sound a bit off. Do you mean the players could totally ignore the other players if they wanted to? >> We always said that's a viable option just like playing nothing is a viable option, as long as you're making a decision to do that and are not doing it out of laziness. Doing it because you're not paying attention naturally misses the point of what we were trying to do. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian Curwin" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Weird Little Boy Date: 27 Apr 1998 21:09:18 +1000 Firstly, the point I was trying to make is this: The fact that Zorn has a book of hundreds of Masada tunes tells me that he can kind of produce a lot of them like burping. I would say that a lot of what "makes" a Masada tune is the improvisation. Obviously some of the more complex ones (like say Tahah, with it's insane time sig changes) might have taken more effort to work out. So, I guess what I'm saying is that Zorn, or any accomplished musician, can possibly make music that sounds pretty basic or even "half-hearted" (I know these two have totally different connotations) but there can still be something, some beauty there. I remember just a few months ago we had a discussion about Frisell's latest release, some saying it was less adventurous than usual, but others saying it is good music, and that's all that counts. So I was applying this idea to Zorn's "noise"-ier side like Weird Little Boy. The whole album could have been recorded live in an hour or something, in other words they might have just rattled it off without the slightest bit of effort, but it could still sound miraculous to some fans. So really I was saying that overall the sound should be judged and not the effort or complexity involved. Interesting this should come up because a lecturer at my university was trying to come up with a way to "grade" jazz solos. A big debate arose, someone saying there has to be dynamic contrast, rhythmic variety, use of certain scales and all this crap, and then us jazz musicians spoke up, saying it should just "sound good". > Stuff on the Circle Maker (just to take an example) don't really take that > > much effort either, they just come out sounding nicer, that's all. > > Well, one obvious question: How do you know they "don't really take that > much effort"? I take it you're not merely referring to the sweat factor, > a quaint notion that Braxton, for many years now, has been attempting to > put to rest (though, I'd imagine several of the pieces on 'Circle Maker' > drew forth a few beads!), > > Are you implying that simply because many of the songs therein are > beautiful in a traditional manner, that they must have been easy to > compose? Or that because JZ produces these melodies in such profusion > that they must pose no more difficulty to him than burping? I'm no > musician, but as a painter, I'll tell you that slapping something with > 'angst' on a canvas is a walk in the park compared to creating something > that looks as if it were effortless. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Silent Watcher" <silent_watcher@hotmail.com> Subject: BIG Date: 27 Apr 1998 09:32:16 PDT Music Boulevard has a new Blind Idiot God album entitled "Rock" scheduled for release on May 19 on Avant. Does anyone have any info on this? SW For Sale/Want list and Laswell Discography at http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: The Violent Death of Dutch Schultz Date: 27 Apr 1998 13:20:28 -0500 Noticed JZ referencing this piece in an interview culled, apparently, from the CD issue of LOCUS SOLUS. Sounds like it might have been one of his pieces from around the time of the Monk and Weill tributes, when he first had access to a serious recording studio. Anyone know if it has ever seen a smidgen of the light of day? Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joshua A Miller <umillj08@mcl.ucsb.edu> Subject: Re: The Violent Death of Dutch Schultz Date: 27 Apr 1998 10:44:28 -0700 (PDT) yes, it's on locus solus. On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > > Noticed JZ referencing this piece in an interview culled, apparently, > from the CD issue of LOCUS SOLUS. Sounds like it might have been one > of his pieces from around the time of the Monk and Weill tributes, > when he first had access to a serious recording studio. > > Anyone know if it has ever seen a smidgen of the light of day? > > Brian Olewnick > > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jdschone@sas.upenn.edu (John D Schonewolf) Subject: Locus Solus Date: 27 Apr 1998 15:37:31 -0400 (EDT) Dear Listservers, I just purchased Locus Solus yesterday, and must say that it is amazing. So, I was wondering what other albums in the Zorn discography I could turn to in this vein? Zorn mentioned this project as being a precursor to Painkiller and a few other projects. How similar are Painkiller and Locus Solus (obviously I have never heard any Painkiller)? For Brian- the song The Violent Death of Dutch Schultz is track 35 on Locus Solus. Thanks for any help and direction. Jack Schonewolf - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: WAYNE HORVITZ Date: 27 Apr 1998 13:50:08 -0700 On Fri, 24 Apr 98 08:21:20 -0300 hulinare@bemberg.com.ar wrote: > > Hello "Zornies", > > Fortunately Wayne Horvitz continues to put out fine albums here and > there but unfortunately those albums are just below the surface of > mainstream -public attention. > I think Horvitz is one of the best composers and musicians of the decade > so I ask myself if any of you would like to comment: Horvitz' problem is that he is neither commercial or totally obscure. It is unlikely that you will scare your friends with any of his records; and I would not recommend them either as background music when you have a date. Not falling in either one of these categories dooms you to almost total obscurity (not to mention that he likes to write songs -- a sin for which there is little indulgence). But I am sure that if he was to die tomorrow, there would be plenty of e-mail asking for advices about what to get... > 1)Is there any live recording of Wayne Horvitz's The President? Not to my knowledge. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Locus Solus Date: 27 Apr 1998 17:44:35 -0400 (EDT) On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, John D Schonewolf wrote: > I just purchased Locus Solus yesterday, and must say that it is amazing. > So, I was wondering what other albums in the Zorn discography I could > turn to in this vein? Not much, sadly. _Locus Solus_ is probably the earliest recorded example of Zorn's short sharp shock approach to improv, and of his use of rock as a big influence. But Naked City and Painkiller primarily reference metal, and don't play off popular song forms to the same extent. Slan might be the closest thing I've heard in Zorn's output, but there are only a few compilation tracks out there. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Weird Little Boy Date: 27 Apr 1998 17:47:52 -0400 (EDT) On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, JonAbbey2 wrote: > I think it depends on the artist. Evan Parker puts out as many records as > Braxton or Zorn and manages to maintain a remarkably high level of quality and > originality. My Parker collection is spotty, but he seems to put out mediocrities too. The duo with Sainkho Namtchylak last year on Victo comes to mind. I couldn't say how his ration of good:mediocre compares to Zorn's. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Re[3]:Cobra Date: 27 Apr 1998 17:56:13 -0400 (EDT) On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > There is a popular belief (...) that people not knowing each others can meet > for one evening, and, without rehearsing at all and no predefined rules, can > produce "magic moments with telepathic interaction". I also believed that > for a long time, until I realized that the best "free improv" was done by > artists that really knew each others very well and improvised in a fairly > well-defined form (because you can immediately recognize it). This seems overstated, and I've got the Company albums to prove it. Obviously, "first encounters" run a risk of just making a mess, but I'm not convinced that this is any more a problem then the risk involved in the latter case of falling into cliches. (Another example of great "first encounters" just occurred to me: the wonderful series of Cecil Taylor albums on FMP recently discussed on this list.) Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Re[3]:Cobra Date: 27 Apr 1998 15:00:43 -0700 On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:56:13 -0400 (EDT) Christopher Hamilton wrote: > > > > On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > > There is a popular belief (...) that people not knowing each others can meet > > for one evening, and, without rehearsing at all and no predefined rules, can > > produce "magic moments with telepathic interaction". I also believed that > > for a long time, until I realized that the best "free improv" was done by > > artists that really knew each others very well and improvised in a fairly > > well-defined form (because you can immediately recognize it). > > This seems overstated, and I've got the Company albums to prove it. > Obviously, "first encounters" run a risk of just making a mess, but I'm > not convinced that this is any more a problem then the risk involved in > the latter case of falling into cliches. (Another example of great > "first encounters" just occurred to me: the wonderful series of Cecil > Taylor albums on FMP recently discussed on this list.) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ If you believe that you have to play with Taylor on the same stage to know how to play with him :-). My statement above does not apply with masters of improvisation that are so well documented on records that playing with them for the first time could hardly be called a... blind date. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chad edwards <chadhead@rocketmail.com> Date: 27 Apr 1998 15:00:03 -0700 (PDT) 1. Why would anyone choose to have sex with a corpse? Well, I don't know about you but I've always had a fear of rejection. From the very first time I sunk into naked, dead flesh, I knew I would always find a taker if I stayed with this crowd. Suddenly I could have any woman I wanted, regardless of age, size, or social status. The only thing was she had to be dead. A small price to pay for so much top-notch tail! 2. Does the stage of decay affect the sensation? This is truly a difficult question. A fresh dead body is just like having sex with a real live girl (only colder) but for a couple of weeks before the real decay begins, you're going to have your work cut out for you. Rest assured though, that the benefits far outweigh the extra work it takes to get in there! Then, however, as heavy decay progresses, it becomes easier and easier to get in -- Although at this stage, I must advise that it doesn't feel very good at all and you run the risk of getting sick from corpse germs. 3. Isn't necrophilia illegal? Yes, the world over. However, there are up sides: For instance, a necrophilia charge cancels out a statutory rape charge! Try THAT with a still-alive girl! 4. Isn't necrophilia immoral? It depends on your religion. Right now the Bolshnavanian Orthodox faith is the only religion that not only approves of, but encourages necrophilia as well as countless other deviant sexual practices. 5. How can I find out if necrophilia is for me? If you're a normal male with healthy urges, necrophilia is not for you. If you are an angry loner, or a widower, or a liberal democrat, or just completely off your nut... Give it a try! _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9mi?= Bissonnette <rbisson@courrier.usherb.ca> Subject: Improvising Vancouver Date: 27 Apr 1998 18:09:31 -0400 Two short questions: is the John Oswald playing sax with Henry Kaiser on the "Improvising Vancouver" CD on Incus the same person as the 'plunderphonics' John Oswald? And is "Improvising Vancouver" an interesting recording? Bruno R=E9mi Bissonnette Ph.D. Professeur titulaire =46acult=E9 d'=C9ducation physique et sportive Universit=E9 de Sherbrooke Sherbrooke, Qu=E9bec J1K 2R1 =20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Re[3]:Cobra Date: 27 Apr 1998 18:13:22 -0400 (EDT) I don't intend to run this into the ground, but . . . On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > My statement above does not apply with masters of improvisation that are so > well documented on records that playing with them for the first time could > hardly be called a... blind date. Some excellent performances on later Company records involve players this couldn't apply to because they were either not well known to each other or had no prior public experience as free players. But I like the term "blind date" for this sort of improv setting. and I'll be sure to use it in the future. 8^) Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Evan Parker (was Re: Weird Little Boy) Date: 27 Apr 1998 17:43:57 -0400 > My Parker collection is spotty, but he seems to put out mediocrities too. > The duo with Sainkho Namtchylak last year on Victo comes to mind. I > couldn't say how his ration of good:mediocre compares to Zorn's. > > Chris Hamilton I actually liked the duo with Sainkho but I don't like CHICAGO SOLO much. All tenor, short tunes that sound more like exercises to me. Anyone else have thought son this? Out of what I have, I would pick MOST MATERIALL (w/Prevost), NATIVES AND ALIENS (w/Guy, Lytton & Crispell) and CONIC SECTIONS (solo soprano) to be my favorites. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Evan Parker (was Re: Weird Little Boy) Date: 27 Apr 1998 15:18:48 -0700 On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:43:57 -0400 Tom Pratt wrote: > > > My Parker collection is spotty, but he seems to put out mediocrities too. > > The duo with Sainkho Namtchylak last year on Victo comes to mind. I > > couldn't say how his ration of good:mediocre compares to Zorn's. > > > > Chris Hamilton > > I actually liked the duo with Sainkho but I don't like CHICAGO SOLO > much. All tenor, short tunes that sound more like exercises to me. > Anyone else have thought son this? > > Out of what I have, I would pick MOST MATERIALL (w/Prevost), NATIVES AND > ALIENS (w/Guy, Lytton & Crispell) and CONIC SECTIONS (solo soprano) to > be my favorites. If you don't have them, you should also check the duos with Paul Lytton from the early '70s. Fortunately, Emanem has released original sessions from that era. Even 25 years after, it looks weird. Also, I found it fascinating to see how Parker has evolved. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re: Improvising Vancouver Date: 27 Apr 1998 17:42:31 -0500 R=E9mi Bissonnette wrote: >=20 > Two short questions: is the John Oswald playing sax with Henry Kaiser o= n > the "Improvising Vancouver" CD on Incus the same person as the > 'plunderphonics' John Oswald?=20 Yes, thats the same John Oswald. He has been an improvising Saxophonist since long before samplers were invented, and he's been working with Henry for 20 years. Rich - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Benton <rancor@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu> Subject: Weird Little Boy Date: 27 Apr 1998 18:21:33 -0500 (CDT) Just for the record (and I think this applies to both the original "How is this album?" question as well as the current discussion it's turned into), Trey Spruance (guitarist on WLB) is apparently pretty ashamed of this album and referred to it on the CV-list as, if my memory serves me correctly, "improv at its worst". Take that how you will... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fate@telepath.com (Jon Mooneyham) Subject: Re: necrophilia Date: 27 Apr 1998 18:25:32 -0500 > chad edwards <chadhead@rocketmail.com> >1. Why would anyone choose to have sex with a corpse? [snippage] Um, I know this list is pretty wide-ranging insofar as topics go, but honestly, what the fug?? Jon M. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Improvising Vancouver Date: 27 Apr 1998 19:36:28 -0400 (EDT) Not 100% sure, but considering Oswald plays alto sax with the CCMC=20 featuring Michael Snow (piano); Paul Dutton (voice) and others who play=20 every week in Toronto and did a gig at FIMAV last year I'm 99% sure it is. By the by, when Sonic Youth play Toronto next month, CCMC will be the=20 opening act. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, =3D?iso-8859-1?Q?R=3DE9mi?=3D Bissonnette wrote: > Two short questions: is the John Oswald playing sax with Henry Kaiser on > the "Improvising Vancouver" CD on Incus the same person as the > 'plunderphonics' John Oswald? And is "Improvising Vancouver" an > interesting recording? >=20 > Bruno >=20 > R=E9mi Bissonnette Ph.D. > Professeur titulaire > Facult=E9 d'=C9ducation physique et sportive > Universit=E9 de Sherbrooke > Sherbrooke, Qu=E9bec > J1K 2R1 > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > - >=20 >=20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: your mail Date: 27 Apr 1998 19:47:07 -0400 (EDT) WHAT IS THIS CRAP? On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, chad edwards wrote: > > > 1. Why would anyone choose to have sex with a corpse? > > Well, I don't know about you but I've always had a > fear of rejection. From the very > first time I sunk into naked, dead flesh, I knew I > would always find a taker if I stayed > with this crowd. Suddenly I could have any woman I > wanted, regardless of age, size, or > social status. The only thing was she had to be dead. > A small price to pay for so much > top-notch tail! > > > > 2. Does the stage of decay affect the sensation? > > This is truly a difficult question. A fresh dead body > is just like having sex with a real > live girl (only colder) but for a couple of weeks > before the real decay begins, you're > going to have your work cut out for you. Rest assured > though, that the benefits far > outweigh the extra work it takes to get in there! > Then, however, as heavy decay > progresses, it becomes easier and easier to get in -- > Although at this stage, I must > advise that it doesn't feel very good at all and you > run the risk of getting sick from > corpse germs. > > > > 3. Isn't necrophilia illegal? > > Yes, the world over. However, there are up sides: For > instance, a necrophilia charge > cancels out a statutory rape charge! Try THAT with a > still-alive girl! > > > > 4. Isn't necrophilia immoral? > > It depends on your religion. Right now the > Bolshnavanian Orthodox faith is the only > religion that not only approves of, but encourages > necrophilia as well as countless > other deviant sexual practices. > > > > 5. How can I find out if necrophilia is for me? > > If you're a normal male with healthy urges, > necrophilia is not for you. If you are an > angry loner, or a widower, or a liberal democrat, or > just completely off your nut... Give > it a try! > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________ > DO YOU YAHOO!? > Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chad edwards <chadhead@rocketmail.com> Subject: Sorry... Date: 27 Apr 1998 16:57:52 -0700 (PDT) Sorry, I meant to send that necro spam to a friend of mine in the UK. I hit the wrong address in my list. Didn't mean to offend anyone, except for him of course. Humble Apologies, chadhead@rocketmail.com _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Evan Parker Date: 27 Apr 1998 19:42:04 -0400 (EDT) Parker/Sainko has its good points. I own it, but I find I can't listen to more than one of the tracks at a time. Other excellent Parker discs are 50th Birthday Concert on Leo and Imaginary Values on Maya. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:43:57 -0400 Tom Pratt wrote: > > > > > My Parker collection is spotty, but he seems to put out mediocrities too. > > > The duo with Sainkho Namtchylak last year on Victo comes to mind. I > > > couldn't say how his ration of good:mediocre compares to Zorn's. > > > > > > Chris Hamilton > > > > I actually liked the duo with Sainkho but I don't like CHICAGO SOLO > > much. All tenor, short tunes that sound more like exercises to me. > > Anyone else have thought son this? > > > > Out of what I have, I would pick MOST MATERIALL (w/Prevost), NATIVES AND > > ALIENS (w/Guy, Lytton & Crispell) and CONIC SECTIONS (solo soprano) to > > be my favorites. > > If you don't have them, you should also check the duos with Paul Lytton > from the early '70s. Fortunately, Emanem has released original sessions > from that era. Even 25 years after, it looks weird. Also, I found it > fascinating to see how Parker has evolved. > > Patrice. > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrick Stockton" <sheepherder@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: Frisell/Baron in the Zorn listserv Date: 27 Apr 1998 18:34:27 -0700 > So Patrick! Did you make it to the Frisell/Baron show on Saturday > night? I saw both the Frisell/Baron and the 'Train' lineup here in > Seattle this month and enjoyed both tremendously. The Frisell/Baron > show last week took a little more work to listen to though ... > What did you think? > > - Dave > > -- > Replies? Remove the 'not' from my reply address. yes i did. i actually saw them twice that day. at 5pm they played at music millenium, a pretty good record store in NW portland. then at 830 they played the scheduled show. it was a great show! the venue is small, about 50 people not including the balcony which was closed. i saw bill there a while back with the Quartet lineup. The place is old with lots of character, as it was once the longest running porn theater in the US. and i believe the building still holds the record. anyway about the music.... This was the first tiome i had ever seen joey baron live, so i was really focusing on him. he is the best drummer i have ever seen, better than dejohnette in my opinion, who was formerly considered by me to be the best living drummer. joey is so versatile. the best aspec tof the performance though was that they were having so much fun. they were laughing and toying with each other. also their chemistry was perfect, probably due to so many years playing together. you are right it does take a little more effort to listen to. mostly becasue frisell really takes the supporting role for baron's exquisite brush and rim work. playing stands and cymbal nuts more than skins at some points, baron really expanded the nature and function of the drums in a duo. i always sort of chuckled when rock drummers would play with their hands but dropping the sticks in baron's world opened up entirely new timbres and even tones (by bending the skin). another interesting aspect of the show was their composition choices. it did not even occur to me until the 1st encore, when someone shouted out a request, that they were not playing any compositions from any of their recorded albums. someone requested "have a little faith", and bill responded by explaining they were just playing tunes without a set list, but they were not playing any of their own tunes. for some strange reason i had just sat through two and a half hours of compositions i had never heard before, or if i had, they were arranged so differently (i.e. joey playing the melody or the rhythm thereof, on the drums, similar to "Alfie" on bacharach), that i could not recognize them, but it seemed as though i was listening to familiar music. very bizarre feeling. great, great performance. if they come your way i would not hesitate to go. do not condemn frisell if you do not appreciate "gone just like train", he is one of the greatest guitarist/composers around who plays with the best musicians. consider "gone just like train" to be as musically adventurous as the first halves of zorn's naked city-naked city, and naked city radio. not everything these guys do is going to be extremely avant garde. but everything they do is going to have that particular language or accent or sound, however you want to describe it, that makes it appealing to fans of said composers work. patrick in portland - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Columbia Date: 28 Apr 1998 03:20:48 -0400 (EDT) Someone told me today that Columbia signed David S. Ware. I wonder what hey're going to do with him? They just dropped Threadgill, and I thought they could have at least made a video for one of his songs or something since there were some backbeats. No really, what do they think is going to happen to these people who they can't sell and don't promote- Ornette, Tim Berne, Threadgill, etc. I guess they get a tax write-off or something. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Jenkins' Big Fights Series Date: 28 Apr 1998 11:46:55 GMT0BST I have no particular opinion on whether it's more helpful to describe the Zorn - Previte duets as "fighting", "arguing" or "conversing": I have listened a few times to the record, or 1-27 anyway (is there more?) but wasn't too wowed. My point was actually only this: that Jenkins uses a pre-defined cut off point, specifically a three minute bell, and I thought, from the sleeve note?, that the Zorn Previte's maybe used the same (only, one minute or two) That said, I WAS impressed by the enthusiasm that someone expressed for the concept (like so many ideas, it's what you might be able to make of it; ie there's little doubt that most pairs of musicians, if asked first to converse, then to argue, then to fight, would play different sounding stuff, and probably one could even tell which was which; though that might reflect cliches, ... but there's little sense, I suppose in imagining that these ideas should impose restraints ...) Sean - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: hassell Date: 28 Apr 1998 12:17:36 GMT0BST anyone know how to get the Hassell remix/compilation cd "the vertical collection" on Earshot? i think it's only via mail order... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com> Subject: Re: Evan Parker Date: 28 Apr 1998 09:30:01 -0400 Ken Waxman wrote: > Parker/Sainko has its good points. I own it, but I find I can't listen > to > more than one of the tracks at a time. Other excellent Parker discs > are 50th Birthday Concert on Leo and Imaginary Values on Maya. > > Ken Waxman > cj649@torfree > > On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > Speaking of Parker, has anyone heard the new ECM electro-acoustic CD? I'm interested in some input before shelling out $$ for this as it is rather expensive as an import. Alan Kayser - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Columbia Date: 28 Apr 1998 10:20:00 -0400 (EDT) While he's long gone from there, I'm sure the spirit of Clive Davis still pervades at CBS/Sony. In his autobiography Davis said he signed people like Ornette Coleman not because they sold (m)any records, but because they gave the label prestige. I forget which rock or fusion group Davis cited as "signable" when he pointed out that Ornette and Miles were on board, but that sort of misplaced snobism seemed to work for both parties. (I guess, "I'm signed to CBS the home of Ornette, so my music must be avant garde too.") That's what the signed of Ware, Threadgill, Berne etc. does for the label. Then after a while when the accounts point out that all the avant gardists together don't sell as many copies as one Michael Jackson album, the label drops 'em. But by reissuing the product when it feels like it, the major still gets reflected prestige. Cynical as always Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, William York wrote: > Someone told me today that Columbia signed David S. Ware. I wonder what > hey're going to do with him? They just dropped Threadgill, and I thought > they could have at least made a video for one of his songs or something > since there were some backbeats. No really, what do they think is going > to happen to these people who they can't sell and don't promote- Ornette, > Tim Berne, Threadgill, etc. I guess they get a tax write-off or > something. > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Columbia Date: 28 Apr 1998 07:50:31 -0700 On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 03:20:48 -0400 (EDT) William York wrote: > > Someone told me today that Columbia signed David S. Ware. I wonder what > hey're going to do with him? They just dropped Threadgill, and I thought ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Did they, really? I know that they refused to put out some of his music, but is his contract with them over? > they could have at least made a video for one of his songs or something > since there were some backbeats. No really, what do they think is going > to happen to these people who they can't sell and don't promote- Ornette, > Tim Berne, Threadgill, etc. I guess they get a tax write-off or > something. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Columbia Date: 28 Apr 1998 08:34:57 PDT >Someone told me today that Columbia signed David S. Ware. This is not a completely new affair. About 5 years ago, I think, there was an album called FLIGHT OF i, jointly released by Columbia/DIW. I think Matt Shipp and Whit Dickey were on it. I have it but haven't listened to it in a long time. Not sure if this has happened to any other records. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: The Violent Death of Dutch Schultz Date: 28 Apr 1998 11:38:39 -0400 (EDT) > Noticed JZ referencing this piece in an interview culled, apparently, > from the CD issue of LOCUS SOLUS. Sounds like it might have been one > of his pieces from around the time of the Monk and Weill tributes, > when he first had access to a serious recording studio. > > Anyone know if it has ever seen a smidgen of the light of day? It's on the LOCUS SOLUS CD. -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Evan Parker Date: 28 Apr 1998 08:48:13 PDT >> > >Speaking of Parker, has anyone heard the new ECM electro-acoustic CD? >I'm interested in some input before shelling out $$ for this as it is >rather expensive as an import. > >Alan Kayser > I bought it for $15 American plus s/h from Downtown. I think it's just GREAT. I've listened to it several times this week alone, and intends to put it down so I don't get sick of it. It's an hour long and ranges from the more "typical" P/G/L approach to a more "ambient" sensibility. I wouldn't be one to judge, because I haven't seen this group live, but more than half of the record seems to bear a very strong "ECM"/Steve Lake-compatible recording aesthetic. (See TIME WILL TELL for comparable reverb/ambience.) Nevertheless, the music is in charge here, and of the few examples of Phil Wachsman's playing I've heard (GUSHWACHS, COWWS Quintet, LJCO, ...), this is the finest IMHO---period! Is it Phil Wax-man, or Wahshman? P.s. Does everybody interested in E. Parker know about the new Parker/Guy/Lytton album coming out on Emanem? It's live at Vortex 1996. Sounds good! (I haven't heard IMAGINARY VALUES yet, but this new one is two LONG ASS performances and it sounds beautiful. In keeping with Emanem's usual standards, the information on their website is thorough, concise, and wonderfully inclusive...and of course, self-promotional in a friendly kind of way. Indie label family values! http://members.aol.com/EmanemDisc ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: Radical Jewish burping Date: 28 Apr 1998 11:56:29 -0400 (EDT) > Are you implying that simply because many of the songs therein are > beautiful in a traditional manner, that they must have been easy to > compose? Or that because JZ produces these melodies in such profusion > that they must pose no more difficulty to him than burping? Thoughts - I myself find it fiendishly difficult to just 'come up with' a melody as simple and beautiful as, say, 'sippur' (off of 'issachar'). I also think that, certainly, JZ's decision to work in/around the klezmer genre would make it easier to come up with melodies - the harmonic minor scale lending itself quite well to a certain kind of sound. Also, he wouldn't have to worry if his melodies, rather than sounding totaly fresh and new, sounded like klezmer...they're supposed to! This would get rid of the tricky problem of trying to make something which was at once beautiful and also completely 'new'. (I seem to remember this subject popping up a long time ago on this list: how much sense does it make to try and make somthing with no obvious ties to the music which came before?) Finally: even if the masada tunes are as easy as burping for JZ, there's still the fact that *nobody else* is burping like him right now. So: burp on, John. -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Sedlak <twsedlak@artsci.wustl.edu> Subject: Evan Parker/David S. Ware Date: 28 Apr 1998 11:18:08 -0500 (CDT) >Someone told me today that Columbia signed David S. Ware. >This is not a completely new affair. About 5 years ago, I think, there >was an album called FLIGHT OF i, jointly released by Columbia/DIW. Flight of I occurred at a time when Columbia was licensing a number of DIW records for US release. The Art Ensemble of Chicago had a few released stateside this way, as well as at least one fine David Murray record, "Fast Life". My understanding is that the Ware group has now been offically "signed" as opposed to having selected records chosen for license. > > My Parker collection is spotty, but he seems to put out mediocrities too. > > The duo with Sainkho Namtchylak last year on Victo comes to mind. I > > couldn't say how his ration of good:mediocre compares to Zorn's. > I actually liked the duo with Sainkho but I don't like CHICAGO SOLO > much. All tenor, short tunes that sound more like exercises to me. > Anyone else have thought son this? There are some screechy scrawly solos on the Chicago Solo disc, but some very beautiful ones as well. It's interesting to hear him perform solo on tenor, lending him a much more natural, breathy tone... which goes well since he is often circular breathing. Most of his solo performances are on soprano... my faves of which are "Conic Sections" (AhUm), a solo track on "Atlanta" (Impetus), and some cool duos with Steve Lacy "Chirps" (FMP). Also, there is a really boss duo with Irene Schweitzer on "Elsie Jo" (Maya). The duo with Braxton on Leo is also excellent, though the addition of (Paul Rutherford?) on another Leo disc perhaps adds a bit too much sonic baggage. Also recommended are the trio "Imaginary Values" (Maya) and "Breaths and Heartbeats" (Rastascan- at a domestic price!), both of which cut out the fat that appears on lenghty performances such as the "50th birthday Performance" Anything with Alexander von Schlippenbach on it (discs on FMP and PoTorch) is also easily recommended. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Roger Langvik" <tjohansen@vf.telia.no> Subject: Masada Date: 28 Apr 1998 20:47:31 +0200 "So, until every other downtown wannabe starts producing stuff the caliber of the Masada songbook, I'm quite willing to give old Zorno the benefit of the doubt." Brian Olewnick Did you say "Masada songbook" is those pieces released in printed form? I just noticed and I am agreeing with Brian on this.... I'm a composer and writing something beutiful is the hardest thing to do EVERYTHING has to be perfekt from melodies to orchestrating. Things have to be just right .............and then they all must play beutifuly,,; and break our harts. and that doesn't happen often ,but when it does... Roger - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Caulfield Bivins <jbivins@indiana.edu> Subject: Columbia Date: 28 Apr 1998 14:08:27 -0500 (EST) Does anyone have any more info on the latest debacle here? I'd read about the Ware signing, but not about the Threadgill difficulties. Patrice, do you know what exactly they declined to release? At any rate, it seems to confirm the long-standing observation that Columbia likes to keep one (and ONLY one) "outside" artist in stock. Ugh. On another note, let me warmly recommend the Evan Parker disc on ECM. Not wanting to revive the ECM debate from a few weeks back, I can affirm that there is little "toning down" of Parker's approach and quite a bit of interesting development for this great artist. Jason Bivins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Artur Nowak" <arno@silesia.top.pl> Subject: Odp: Sorry... Date: 28 Apr 1998 21:16:08 +0200 > Sorry, I meant to send that necro spam to a friend >of mine in the UK. >I hit the wrong address in my list. >Didn't mean to offend anyone, except for him of course. > >Humble Apologies, > >chadhead@rocketmail.com You don't have to apologize, everybody has small secrets... Some like bondage, some dead girls... The "Honest Zorn-List Message of the Week" award goes to Chad. Applause please! :-) :-) :-) ____________________________________________________________________ Artur Nowak www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/emd/pl40/artists/f/frisell_bill/default.htm - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Re: Columbia Date: 28 Apr 1998 15:50:48 -0400 (EDT) > > Someone told me today that Columbia signed David S. Ware. I wonder what > > hey're going to do with him? They just dropped Threadgill, andthought ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Did they, really? I know that they refused to put out some of his music, > but is his contract with them over? I read an article about this in a stereo magazine that one of my friends had. I just remember him taling about the Flute ForceFour CD with James Newton on Black Saint, but how he didn't care about making records so much. He did say that he wanted to record a big band that he has that operates out of Italy (?). I found an unopened copy of his last CD in the free box at a record store- this major label thing has a funny effect- there are so many more promo cut-outs that lots of people just get those, as some people just don't know who these folks are. So that helps the fans save money, I guess that's the only real benefit. But then they go out of print Funny that they would choose David Ware, who seems to be disliked by quite a few of the people who actuallly do know who he is, more so than most in this field. I and a lot of other folks were pretty turned off by his appearance in Chapel Hill, NC- most of the good parts came when he stepped off of the stage and let Shipp, Parker, and Ibarra play. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Columbia Date: 28 Apr 1998 16:17:33 -0700 On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:50:48 -0400 (EDT) William York wrote: > > > > > Someone told me today that Columbia signed David S. Ware. I wonder what > > > hey're going to do with him? They just dropped Threadgill, andthought > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > Did they, really? I know that they refused to put out some of his music, > > but is his contract with them over? > > I read an article about this in a stereo magazine that one of my friends > had. I just remember him taling about the Flute ForceFour CD with James > Newton on Black Saint, but how he didn't care about making records so > much. He did say that he wanted to record a big band that he has that > operates out of Italy (?). Here is an excerpt from an interview that Threadgill gave to epulse! of March 13, 1998: epulse: What new recording material are you working on now? Threadgill: Nothing at the moment because of what happened with Columbia. I had a great album for them and they chickened out. It's a 21-piece dance band. The young people in Europe go crazy for it. It's the killingest thing. We play my compositions for the most part. It's music to dance to, funky stuff and everything, but there ain't no formulas. We cover everything. But Columbia chickened out. They dropped the ball on that one. But recording that band isn't as important to me as its live life. I also had a new Make a Move album ready to go. I didn't hear about Columbia not wanting to do it until I returned from India with the new project ready to rehearse. epulse: Does that bother you? Threadgill: I wasn't hurt, but I was dispirited. Funny thing is, if you came up to me and asked me to make a record, I wouldn't do it. I couldn't do it. I might be tempted because of the money, but recordings just flow out of me without being planned. That's what happened with this new material, which will probably never get recorded now. epulse: Why not? Isn't it important for you to have your work documented on record? Threadgill: Look, record companies are not that damn important to me. I'm telling you, I wouldn't be disappointed if I didn't make records. As long as I can perform and make a good living at it, I don't have to record. I'm not thinking about how posterity remembers me. I don't care. Patrice - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: David ware/matt shipp/joe mcphee (was: columbia) Date: 28 Apr 1998 16:24:51 PDT >Funny that they would choose David Ware, who seems to be disliked by quite >a few of the people who actuallly do know who he is, more so than most in >this field. I and a lot of other folks were pretty turned off by his >appearance in Chapel Hill, NC- most of the good parts came when he stepped >off of the stage and let Shipp, Parker, and Ibarra play. This is really strange, but true. It seems like critics and honest appreciates all over the place don't like Ware. I bought FLIGHT OF I and CRYPTOLOGY and remember loving the rhythm section and being powerhoused by Ware, but I was just easing into this side of the music at that point (and "insect improv" was light years away, and naked City was all Zorn was to me, etc etc). I haven't listened to ware in a while, but I will soon. I AM curious what you guys (and gals) think. Also, what matt Shipp albums does everyone like? I've got my eye on BEFORE THE WORLD, BY THE LAW OF MUSIC, FLOW OF X, and MULTIPLICATION TABLE, among others. And what are the thoughts on the new McPhee hatology solo record? I myself am a fan, even though the tenor vibrato (see: Ware, Gayle, and Ayler) is not really my thing. I try to get over that little hang-up, though...I guess in my experience it hasn't paid off to be too proud of my "aesthetic", or what-you-will. I'm trying to get into punk and _______ Wave, but I feel lost, like I missed something. Same deal. But I saw McPhee play in Houston and Austin wand it was really beautiful, and I got the SWEET FREEDOM album w/ Lisle Ellis and Paul Plimley and that kicks ass. And ALL of you who haven't heard the Hatart record TOPOLOGY: you guys need it bad. Strings, and guitar noise, and pre-Bloodcount melodies, and free-blowing, and catharsis...what a great great record! Ay yai yai! Enuff! SH ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Tomokawa/Mikami Date: 28 Apr 1998 21:36:18 -0400 I was browsing through the P.S.F. catalog at Forced Exposure and stumbled across a bunch of albums by Kazuki Tomokawa and Kan Mikami, both of whom I've never heard but had some descriptions which really appealed to me. Can anyone recommend which discs are the best to get by these guys? There are about 8 or 9 each. Thanks! -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Scott Handley" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: arditti quartet / ligeti Date: 28 Apr 1998 20:54:30 PDT Pardon the blunder, but I lost the email(s) in the thread where a few people mentioned a 2CD Arditti String Quartet record w/ various composers. What's the label/title/etc? Has anyone heard the 2CD opera by Ligeti on Wergo? How do you like it? (There may be more than one; can't remember title.) Thanks. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Columbia Date: 29 Apr 1998 00:24:23 -0400 William York wrote: > Someone told me today that Columbia signed David S. Ware. I wonder what > hey're going to do with him? They just dropped Threadgill [snip] Threadgill was sacked by the regime that's since left the building; I heard rumors of this as long ago as last summer (which was actually when "Where's Your Cup?" first appeared) but didn't see any confirmation until the issue of E-Pulse that Patrice shared. Ware, on the other hand, had already finished recording his second album for AUM Fidelity when Branford Marsalis, new "creative consultant" for Columbia's jazz department (meaning he's making the recommendations as to who gets signed), signed Ware to the label and took the record for Columbia (your eyes do not deceive you). Ware was apparently Branford's top priority. Yes, it's true that David has had a disc on Columbia before, as someone mentioned - "Flight of i" on DIW/Columbia with Matt Shipp, William Parker, and wasn't it Marc Edwards? But it was a one-off situation... Columbia didn't pick up any further Ware releases even though "Third Ear Recitation," I'm told, was in most ways superior to "Flight." But I agree, it's a shame about Threadgill, especially given the f@#$in' killing big band he's bringing to the Texaco Fest... wonder if that's the outfit he mentions in the E-Pulse interview? Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com Shillgard (TM): Part of my daytime job involves saying nice things about some Columbia releases. All of the above therefore consists only of factual data. Except for that last part about Threadgill. That's my opinion, baby. Good night. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: David ware Date: 29 Apr 1998 10:17:36 -0400 (EDT) On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Scott Handley wrote: > I myself am a fan, even though the tenor vibrato (see: Ware, Gayle, and > Ayler) is not really my thing. I try to get over that little hang-up, > though... i think that appreciating ware may have a lot to do with understanding where he comes from. he is *definitely* a full-on, gutbucket, energy-sound tenor player in the tradition of ayler and late, late coltrane - lots of circular breathing, skronking and muscular, low riffing. as i've said before on the zorn-list, i think the guy is absolutely great (definitely not for every taste...) and i would go see him again in a second. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Columbia Date: 29 Apr 1998 11:18:05 -0400 (EDT) On Wed, 29 Apr 1998, Steve Smith wrote: > > Threadgill was sacked by the regime that's since left the building; I heard > rumors of this as long ago as last summer (which was actually when "Where's > Your Cup?" first appeared) but didn't see any confirmation until the issue of > E-Pulse that Patrice shared. So potentially when "this" regime "leaves the building" (as happens with regularity in the majors), the next set of execs will compare Ware's and Grover Washington's sales and give him (Ware) his walking papers too. The spirit of Clive Davis -- who gave Ornette, Keith Jarrett, Bill Evans (and I forget who else) -- the boot one afternoon because they weren't megastars still pervades all the majors. Like commercial radio they're pushing "product" not music. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net > > Ware, on the other hand, had already finished recording his second album for > AUM Fidelity when Branford Marsalis, new "creative consultant" for Columbia's > jazz department (meaning he's making the recommendations as to who gets > signed), signed Ware to the label and took the record for Columbia (your eyes > do not deceive you). Ware was apparently Branford's top priority. > > Yes, it's true that David has had a disc on Columbia before, as someone > mentioned - "Flight of i" on DIW/Columbia with Matt Shipp, William Parker, > and wasn't it Marc Edwards? But it was a one-off situation... Columbia > didn't pick up any further Ware releases even though "Third Ear Recitation," > I'm told, was in most ways superior to "Flight." > > But I agree, it's a shame about Threadgill, especially given the f@#$in' > killing big band he's bringing to the Texaco Fest... wonder if that's the > outfit he mentions in the E-Pulse interview? > > Steve Smith > ssmith36@sprynet.com > > Shillgard (TM): Part of my daytime job involves saying nice things about > some Columbia releases. All of the above therefore consists only of factual > data. Except for that last part about Threadgill. That's my opinion, baby. > Good night. > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Roscoe Mitchell in New York City 4/27/98 Date: 28 Apr 1998 01:58:08 -0400 Back in the days when jazz was brand new to me, the reference book I trusted most (no doubt due to the title) was John Swenson's "Rolling Stone Jazz Record Guide" I had this in mind as I went into the concert commemorating the 20th anniversary of Roscoe Mitchell's "LRG - The Maze - S II Variations," an LP released on Nessa in 1978, because I seem to remember that that album was given a fairly poor rating, and oddly enough, I found myself wondering if I would be carrying any negative preconceptions into tonight's concert. Nevertheless, having embraced wholeheartedly all manner of avant garde music and in particular the various idioms and voices of the A.A.C.M.'s first generation, I certainly was not about to miss this all-star aggregation, reuniting Roscoe Mitchell and Malachi Favors with Joseph Jarman for the first time in years, in the company of no less than Wadada Leo Smith, George Lewis, Douglas Ewart, Thurman Barker, Tani Tabbal, Gerald Cleaver and Vincent Davis. The Tribeca Performing Arts Center turns out to be a fine little auditorium, with steep, stadium-style seating which gives every ticketholder a clear seat. (Wish I'd gone to hear one of the conductions led by Butch Morris last week...) I sat in the center near the top to get a panoramic view of one of the most spectacular amalgamations of percussion gear I've ever seen. The crowd was small at the beginning but continued to trickle in throughout the performance of the first piece, the 30+ minute "LRG" for high brass, winds and low brass. I surmise that "LRG" stands for Leo, Roscoe and George. Leo was situated on one side of the stage with trumpet, European-style keyed fluegelhorn, and a mute or two. He played very little at any point in the night, admittedly much to my disappointment. Roscoe was in the middle with a family of saxes from sopranino to bass, E-flat and B-flat clarinets, flute, piccolo, wood flute and a lower-pitched member of the recorder family. George Lewis was on Roscoe's other side, with trombone and Sousaphone. I can't say much more than that for me this piece was easily the low point of the evening. It seemed like little more than an exercise in pointillistic frustration. But let me also mention that the A.A.C.M. did no one any favors by not providing notes for the composition in the program. There may have been a compelling method behind the seemingly pointless bleeps and burbles that passed from one player to another, seldom in tandem. But lacking those notes, all one heard was what I described, and I'd be surprised to hear if anyone else found the piece convincing. The only real enjoyment to be had in this piece was the sheer inventiveness of George Lewis, who is surely one of the top trombone practitioners on this or any other planet. He also employed a fairly unique (well, I've never seen anyone else do it but most likely everything's been done by this point!) technique of using a bassoon double reed in both his trombone and Sousaphone at times, creating some fascinating sounds. Mitchell's part was perhaps most baffling of all -- a few notes on one horn, put it down, a few notes on another horn, put it down, etc... To be perfectly honest, robbed of a chance to understand what Roscoe was trying to do in the piece (the only descriptive phrase in the program was that all of the pieces were "sound collages based on the individual vocabularies of the players") then I must label "LRG" an unsuccessful piece of pure music. I welcome rebuttal here by all means, from anyone who knows the record or heard tonight's performance differently. After the break, "The Maze" brought Mitchell, Jarman, Favors, Barker, Ewart, Tabbal, Cleaver and Davis to the stage to man that awesome array of percussion. Roscoe's percussion cage is a one-man orchestra by itself, and the others employed everything from balaphons and hand drums to coffee cans and sheet metal, zithers to tuned gongs, washtubs to mixing bowls. Ewart brought on a few laughs with his two musical crutches (literally speaking... they were standard issue broke-leg crutches with shakers of different sorts suspended between the sides, decked up shamanistically... the tools of the urban witchdoctor, no doubt -- I might add as well that Ewart was the only facepainted member of the troupe). Obviously the sheer variety of tone and timbre all by itself would tend to offer an improvement over the previous piece, but what "The Maze" also brought to the mix was a loose but welcome feeling of structure and order... it didn't seem as willfully random or obscure as "LRG" and to this listener was packed with incident and a steady momentum despite lacking a pulse. I found myself put in mind of a meeting ground between the stark sound poetry of "Ionisations" and the faux primitive music of Cage's constructions, given a distinctly urban feel with the bells and alarms. This is a wonderful piece that could only have come from the A.A.C.M. That not everyone felt the same was made clear by the irate listener who stormed out in the middle of the piece, muttering that it was a travesty and that he could compose a better piece, and that he was going to get a refund. Hmmmm... Once again some notes as to what Mitchell was exploring in "S II Examples" would have been welcome, but the piece itself, far shorter than the other two, was a fine little exploration of overtones, microtones, breathy almost-tones, and other mostly quiet saxophone noises by Ewart on sopranino, Jarman on soprano and Mitchell on alto. At the time I was put in mind of the World Saxophone Quartet playing Morton Feldman, but in retrospect, I think it falls somewhere between Feldman and Tony Conrad at a low volume. Those who know a great deal more about the composers I've namechecked (Jon? Brian?) are welcome to call me mad. Interestingly, where "LRG" featured almost no ensemble work, "S II" was purely an ensemble piece. For the finale, everyone came out for a simultaneous collage of the collage pieces. There was more enjoyable percussion work from all, more baffling silence and rare beautiful tones from Smith, more textural amazement from Lewis, short saxophone bits from Jarman and Ewart from the "S II" music (heard now in alternation rather than in unison), and a brief reprise of Mitchell's saxophone stylings a la "LRG." Witnessing the sheer all-star firepower on stage but hearing the ping-ponging style of the music, I mentally dubbed it "Spazz at the Philharmonic." It was, however, quite easy to hear the three distinct preceding compositions witin the final collage. After the concert, as the audience milled about and discussed the concert, I was a little bit surprised to hear how many other people were willing to admit an ambivalence or even an outright dislike of the music... and this from some of the most openminded listeners I know! The most frequently used word had to be "cerebral" and with that I would certainly agree, at least for "LRG." I saw a number of writers, but more remarkably, I think I noticed more musicians at this show than virtually any other show I've attended recently... Marion Brown, Noah Howard, Jumma Santos, Anthony Coleman, Myra Melford, J.D. Parran, Kelvyn Bell, and no doubt others. As for me, despite all previously mentioned reservations and criticisms I'm still considering myself awfully lucky to have been able to hear this. This was a stage full of amazing musicians, and I can't think of any composer about whom I can say they've written nothing I dislike, so if "LRG" struck me as a protracted misstep, at least the rest of the program reminded me why so I love the Art Ensemble of Chicago (as much by what the concert omitted as by what it included) and why Roscoe Mitchell is a major musical figure of the late 20th century. Long may he continue to confuse, annoy, and, oh yes, delight us all. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tag Yr It <TagYrIt@aol.com> Subject: Masada at the Knit Date: 29 Apr 1998 12:02:24 EDT Greetings, Was anyone receiving the second set of Masada Tuesday night? I got the first set just fine, but after that, everything went dead....let me know of you have a chance. Thanks! Dale. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: arditti quartet / ligeti Date: 29 Apr 1998 09:23:28 -0800 Scott Handley writes: > Pardon the blunder, but I lost the email(s) in the thread where > a few > people mentioned a 2CD Arditti String Quartet record w/ various > composers. What's the label/title/etc? > > Has anyone heard the 2CD opera by Ligeti on Wergo? How do you > like it? > (There may be more than one; can't remember title.) > There's a double CD set of Arditti playing "From Italy," Disque Montaigne 789007. But there's also 2 CDs of Arditti playing collected works on Gramavision; they are titled "One" and "Two" but come separately. Same goes for the Elliot Carter string quartets they recorded, one two separate Etcetera CDs. The Ligeti opera is "Le Grand Macabre," Wergo 6170. If you like Ligeti, you'll like this, especially if you appreciate both his sense of humor and his later, more idiomatic style. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Silent Watcher" <silent_watcher@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Masada at the Knit Date: 29 Apr 1998 09:27:38 PDT >Was anyone receiving the second set of Masada Tuesday night? I got the first >set just fine, but after that, everything went dead....let me know of you have >a chance. I'll tell you why...Right before the guys came out, someone covered the cameras. When the group came out, Zorn declared the set the first private party at the Knit in over a year. No cameras, no recordings. He told everyone with a recorder to turn them off. Probably the most I've heard him talk in the 5 or 6 times I've seen him. Amazing set, though. SW For Sale/Want List and Laswell discography at http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Aaron Hertzmann" <hertzman@cat.nyu.edu> Subject: Masada at KF Date: 29 Apr 1998 13:07:47 -0400 I saw Masada last night, second set at the Knitting Factory. At the start of the show, Zorn said: "this is the first private performance of Masada. We've covered up those fucking video cameras, so tonight's performance is just for you. Who does this fucking guy think he is, broadcasting the entire performance over the Internet, for all to see, even our rehearsals, without even telling the musicians? Tapers, turn off your tape recorders tonight --- this set is just for the people in this room!" (The webcams were covered up by cloth.) After the first song, he pointed to one of the webcams and said: "let's take off the cover!" and gave it the finger. :) (He didn't sound belligerent, just annoyed.) Aaron PS The show was ok --- I thought the last song and the encore were the best. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Tors <jtors@usinteractive.com> Subject: JZ and religion Date: 29 Apr 1998 11:16:52 -0600 When did John Zorn become heavily into Judiasm? It does not seem to be a prevalent aspect in his music until masada and all it variations. If this is completely redundant information pardon me, I have not consulted the jz-faq. JT "Good design adds value of some kind, gives meaning, and, not incidentally, can be sheer pleasure to behold; it respects the viewer's sensibilities and rewards the entrepreneur" P. Rand - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: WINRECORDS <WINRECORDS@aol.com> Subject: Re: Ware/Columbia Date: 29 Apr 1998 13:57:52 EDT Quite honestly, what's the big deal? So, what if they DO end up dropping him a few years from now (worst case senario.) At least he'll hopefully have a fair amount of money to live off of until then (which probably would not have been the case were he on an independent.) As long as material gets released in some form or another, that's really the most important thing...not the label so much. One would hope artists are savvy enough these days to suss out a crap deal when they see one. I can only hope that Mr. Ware is in control enough of his own career that this shouldn't be anyones concern but his own. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jack Blanton <jblanton@kent.edu> Subject: Re: Masada at the Knit Date: 29 Apr 1998 14:12:12 -0400 At 12:02 PM 4/29/98 EDT, you wrote: >Greetings, > >Was anyone receiving the second set of Masada Tuesday night? I got the first >set just fine, but after that, everything went dead....let me know of you have >a chance. > >Thanks! > >Dale. > >- > > > I had the same problem which was terribly dissapointing. As soon as it happened I called them up (long distance no less) and they said they would try to fix it, but that it might not have been a problem at the club but with the connection somewhere else. As you know the problem was not solved as of about midnight last night. Hopefully it will be up and working today as I am really looking foreward to hearing more from the band. Jack Blanton jblanton@kent.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jack Blanton <jblanton@kent.edu> Subject: Why one should read all messages before replying Date: 29 Apr 1998 14:14:51 -0400 Sorry for adding nothing about the concert last night. I replied before seeing the more relevant responses. Does this mean that tonight's shows will not be broadcast? Jack Blanton jblanton@kent.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: Roscoe Mitchell in New York City 4/27/98 Date: 29 Apr 1998 14:29:16 -0500 Steve Smith wrote: (First part of an excellently written review snipped) >At the time I was put in mind of the World Saxophone Quartet playing >Morton Feldman, but in retrospect, I think it falls somewhere between >Feldman and Tony Conrad at a low volume. One reason that such rarified music as that of Feldman and Conrad (to take only two of many examples) works so well, IMHO, is that they have been obsessed with a relatively (seemingly) small sonic area as an avenue towards their larger expressive goal. By working it and working it, they arrive at a richness that's surprisingly deep. The old 'universe in a grain of sand' adage holds up extremely well in this era of Mandelbrot. When many AACM alumni (not to pick on them, but just as an example--there are many others) dip their toes into post-serialist classical music of European derivation (or whatever you want to call it--you know what I mean) I often feel that the results come out half-baked. There are exceptions of course, much of Braxton's and Lewis' work, but in Mitchell's case it seems to me to hold true almost entirely (similarly with Muhal's work in the same genre). As opposed to the "cerebral" comment you heard at the concert, I'd use the term "academic" in the sense of being dry and lifeless; I wonder if someone can draw a correlation between one's acceptance of a university post and an increase in output tailored to the tastes of the Babbitt/Wuorinen axis. Roscoe's Space Ensemble work often bores me to tears, not because of the sparseness of sound, but for how _non-committal_ it strikes me. Throw the pretentiousness of Tom Buckner into the mix (vis. 'Words', if I'm remembering the title correctly, on the Black Saint 'Sound and Space Ensembles' recording--insert Simpsonesque shudder sound here) and you have easily enough to drive me from the room. I'm just not convinced Roscoe _really_ buys into this genre; at least, to these ears, that's the way it sounds. Obviously, I could be 100% wrong, but I hear nowhere near the same level of inspired obsession as I do in Feldman, Conrad or, say, Lucier. These carpings aside, Mitchell's 'Congliptious' remains firmly embedded in my desert island satchel, followed closely by 'Old/Quartet', 'Snurdy McGurdy...', 'The Flow of Things' and others (not to mention all the great AEC work.) I could listen to 'Tkhke' a hundred times a day. Still wish I could've caught the show instead of being laid up with the flu, including hearing 'LRG' if only to have a fuller appreciation of Mitchell's oeuvre. He's worth more than a few benefits of doubt. My 3 cents. Brian Olewnick Listening to: Miles' 'Black Beauty'. Now, if Laswell had the guts, and I'm sure he does, he should enlist Roscoe for his next post-fusion Milesian project. Mmmmmm.... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: America OLivo <jtalbot@massart.edu> Subject: circle breathing Date: 29 Apr 1998 19:42:23 -0400 if anybody has any information on circle breathing could you let me know. is it possible to circle breath while throat singing or chanting? feel free to email me privately if so desired. thanks jt jtalbot@massart.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tag Yr It <TagYrIt@aol.com> Subject: Masada at the Knit, Thursday Date: 29 Apr 1998 20:23:41 EDT Well I see that there's no live broadcast again tonight of Masada.....is it safe to assume that Zorn's being a dick about this? For what we pay for his CDs, and how many of them I'm sure a great deal of us own....its really starting to make me wonder.... Dale. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tag Yr It <TagYrIt@aol.com> Subject: Masada at the Knit, Thursday...redux..... Date: 29 Apr 1998 20:27:47 EDT ...I obviously meant Wednesday...... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jack Blanton <jblanton@kent.edu> Subject: Re: Masada at the Knit, Thursday Date: 29 Apr 1998 20:47:19 -0400 At 08:23 PM 4/29/98 EDT, you wrote: >Well I see that there's no live broadcast again tonight of Masada.....is it >safe to assume that Zorn's being a dick about this? For what we pay for his >CDs, and how many of them I'm sure a great deal of us own....its really >starting to make me wonder.... > >Dale. > >- > > > Yes and no, in my opinion. I can understand his position (at least what I think his position is) that he doesn't want the performance of music in forms he is unable to control to be disceminated all over, but on the other hand, it is kind of 'dick'-ish. I mean I live in Ohio and as a relatively poor graduate student have no way of making it to NYC for a show. So this is my only way to have heard them live. I've bought every Masada CD and many other Zorn projects, so its not like he would be losing money. In fact, after hearing them live I am more inclined to go out and get other projects by the members of the band. So yea, I can sort of see where he's coming from, but it is disapointing for me to not be able to revel in the joy that is listening to the live performances. Jack Blanton jblanton@kent.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com> Subject: Re: Roscoe Mitchell in New York City 4/27/98 Date: 29 Apr 1998 21:22:42 -0400 I was actually pretty skeptical about the first piece until a friend I was with (a musician) advised me to close my eyes and listen. Before I also just saw them picking up and playing one instrument after another for a few notes each. After I 'listened,' I heard more of a 'conversation' going on between the players. The percussion piece was actually my favorite because of most of the beautiful and wide ranging sounds the ensemble was able to make- the traps, snares, chimes, xylophones, toys, conches, talking drums, tin cans and everything else were used well here. I guess I would have enjoyed having a steady beat behind the music but I could definitely appreciate what Mitchell was trying to do. I was pretty close to violence when some ignorant bastard stood up in the middle of the one of pieces and yelled 'this is a bloody outrage! I could compose better music! I want my money back!' Jason Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrick Stockton" <sheepherder@worldnet.att.net> Subject: sanctuary? Date: 29 Apr 1998 19:09:29 -0700 i know this has already been discussed but my memory is failing.... therefore i have no choice but to ask for someone's opinion on David Douglas' Sacntuary (Avant). email me privately to prevent starting another thread on this already discussed topic. patrick in portland sheepherder@worldnet.att.net ps- recent pickup..... cyro baptista's avant release..... an excellent work. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Oger <oger@worldnet.fr> Subject: Re: Evan Parker Date: 30 Apr 1998 15:24:42 +0200 (MET DST) >I actually liked the duo with Sainkho but I don't like CHICAGO SOLO >much. All tenor, short tunes that sound more like exercises to me. >Anyone else have thought son this? > >Out of what I have, I would pick MOST MATERIALL (w/Prevost), NATIVES AND >ALIENS (w/Guy, Lytton & Crispell) and CONIC SECTIONS (solo soprano) to >be my favorites. > > -Tom Pratt I like very much CHICAGO SOLO (Okka Disc). For me it's a very important CD. Parker plays a kind of mix between Coltrane and old african songs. GREAT ! Jacques Oger (Paris) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: circle breathing Date: 30 Apr 1998 08:43:19 -0800 American OLivo writes: > if anybody has any information on circle breathing could you let me know. is > it possible to circle breath while throat singing or chanting? feel free to > email me privately if so desired. thanks > jt > Circular breathing involves holding a supply of air in your mouth and forcing it out using pressure provided by your cheek muscles while inhaling through your nostrils. Since air has to pass over your vocal chords in your throat to produce any type of vocal sound [chanting or singing], and with circular breathing there is a point where no air is passing, outward bound, over your vocal chords, you would not be able to apply the technique to any sort of vocalisation. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andy Marks" <Andy.Marks@mts.com> Subject: Buckethead's Colma Date: 30 Apr 1998 11:49:30 -0400 Anybody know where I can order a copy of Buckethead's Colma, besides CyberOctave? They want $15.98 + $4.00 shipping, which seems a little steep for 1 CD. I've checked the usual places on-line (CDNOW, CD Connection, Forced Exposure, EAR-Rational), but none of them have it. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: circle breathing Date: 30 Apr 1998 10:53:37 -0500 (CDT) On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, George Grella wrote: > Circular breathing involves holding a supply of air in your mouth and > forcing it out using pressure provided by your cheek muscles while > inhaling through your nostrils. Since air has to pass over your vocal > chords in your throat to produce any type of vocal sound [chanting or > singing], and with circular breathing there is a point where no air is > passing, outward bound, over your vocal chords, you would not be able to > apply the technique to any sort of vocalisation. Listen to Joan La Barbara's records (such as, I believe, "Voice is the Original Instrument") where she does circular-breathed vocals by singing both while inhaling and exhaling. - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: circle breathing Date: 30 Apr 1998 08:59:02 -0800 Joseph S. Zitt writes: > Listen to Joan La Barbara's records (such as, I believe, "Voice is the > Original Instrument") where she does circular-breathed vocals by singing > both while inhaling and exhaling. I've heard Joan La Barbara do this on several recordings, but I wouldn't call it circular breathing. I'm a woodwind player, and I can't circular breath, but I can sing a tone both inhaling and exhaling [anybody can], I can also whistle both inhaling and exhaling; it's not really circular breathing because the flow of air changes completely from one direction to the other and back again; there is a break in the outward flow of air, while in circular breathing, the outward flow of air remains constant. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Tors <jtors@usinteractive.com> Subject: Re: Masada at the Knit, Thursday Date: 30 Apr 1998 10:35:36 -0600 I stopped into the knit to purchase tickets on thurs night. I was listening to a bit of the second set through closed doors. It sounded great, I recognized the tune but cannot place the name or album it originated from. I also noticed that the tv viewer was off in the ticket area, I inquired about the lack of video feed with the guy working the booth. He said that John was yelling at the sound man to turn off all recording devices and video equip. Is this true, is John making all of these shows private parties? I think that it is just an addition to the enigmatic circle around zorn, he does it to piss people off, he does it because he can get away with it. I hope he shuts everything down when I go see him tonight, it would make it more special and unique. Shutting off all documenting technology is an artistic statement as well, not allowing the music art to exist outside of the moment is a very interesting statement, it throws historians and catalogers into a tail spin. It is unfortunate, however, that people out in Nebraska and Ohio cannot loggon and view these amazing players in a extra special intimate four run show at the knit. You all will just have to move to NYC, it is a small island but hey, we have highrises to accomodate. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Buckethead's Colma Date: 30 Apr 1998 09:39:28 -0700 At 11:49 AM 4/30/98, Andy Marks wrote: >Anybody know where I can order a copy of >Buckethead's Colma, besides CyberOctave? >They want $15.98 + $4.00 shipping, which >seems a little steep for 1 CD. I've checked the >usual places on-line (CDNOW, CD Connection, >Forced Exposure, EAR-Rational), but none of them have it. > Unless you're a huge fan, I'd saw don't bother with this disc. I have it, and it's really not that interesting, simple, kind of noodly acoustic guitar tunes with hip hop beats. I'm starting to think that Buckethead, left to his own devices, doesn't really have a lot to say. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dtapia@unoco.edu (Douglas Tapia) Subject: Re: Buckethead's Colma Date: 30 Apr 1998 10:59:35 -0700 >Anybody know where I can order a copy of >Buckethead's Colma, besides CyberOctave? >They want $15.98 + $4.00 shipping, which >seems a little steep for 1 CD. I've checked the >usual places on-line (CDNOW, CD Connection, >Forced Exposure, EAR-Rational), but none of them have it. > >- I got my copy at (gasp) Tower Records. It was even on sale. Cost me something like $13.00 plus tax. I would think that Tower Online would have this in stock. That is, if you don't mind dealing with "the big T" As for me, I've admitted that I'm a junky and that I can always hook up at Tower, if I'm willing to pay a lot more and deal with multiple pierced tini-boopers. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com> Subject: Masada & Klezmer Date: 30 Apr 1998 10:01:09 -0800 Not to pick on whoever recently wrote: >I also think that, certainly, JZ's decision to work in/around the klezmer >genre would make it easier to come up with melodies - the harmonic minor >scale lending itself quite well to a certain kind of sound. Also, he >wouldn't have to worry if his melodies, rather than sounding totaly fresh >and new, sounded like klezmer...they're supposed to! but here's one for the FAQ ('though it's more of a frequently assumed answer than a frequently asked question): Very few, if any, of the compositions for Masada show the direct influence of klezmer music as such, though some of the improvisations (primarily those by musicians who have played in klezmer groups) do. The tunes are much more related to the traditions of Israeli folk music than to those of Eastern European klezmer music. Herb Levy herb@eskimo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glenn Lea <glenn_lea@avid.com> Subject: Masada Snit Date: 30 Apr 1998 13:55:40 -0400 > > Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 20:47:19 -0400 > From: Jack Blanton <jblanton@kent.edu> > Subject: Re: Masada at the Knit, Thursday > > At 08:23 PM 4/29/98 EDT, you wrote: > >Well I see that there's no live broadcast again tonight of Masada.....is it > >safe to assume that Zorn's being a dick about this? From what others who were there have reported, he objected to rehearsals being broadcast without the performers' knowledge -- this sounds like his "punishment" to whoever was doing that. Or maybe he just wanted, as he said, to treat the locals to a "private show". Honestly, I can't blame him for either. > For what we pay for his > >CDs, and how many of them I'm sure a great deal of us own....its really > >starting to make me wonder.. Oh please. You buy a CD, you have the CD. End of transaction. Buy many, you have many. Ditto. No artist "owes" you anything further. Everybody's getting upset because a freebie got cut short? *I'm* upset cuz I missed the whole thing since nobody posted anything to this list announcing the webcast. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john shiurba <shiurba@sfo.com> Subject: Re: circle breathing Date: 30 Apr 1998 11:44:03 -0700 > and with circular breathing there is a point where no air is > passing, outward bound, over your vocal chords, you would not be able to > apply the technique to any sort of vocalisation. not that they strictly count as 'vocalization' but consider some of the mouth cavity sounds that say Phil Minton uses... I've always entertained a little fantasy about someone utilizing vocal circular breathing with these kinds of noises. it would be something to see. -- shiurba@sfo.com http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Troy Whitfield <twhitfie@chem.bu.edu> Subject: Masada KF broadcasts Date: 30 Apr 1998 15:07:28 -0400 Where are, or rather were, people watching these Masada sets from the KF? If they're something that Zorn has agreed about in advance of the shows, that's one thing, but if they're being bootlegged, that's another. Why should he condone being abused in that way? Anyway, I can't remember the last time I heard anyone complain that an artist should make their concert performances freely available as a matter of course. Troy - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jack Blanton <jblanton@kent.edu> Subject: Re: Masada KF broadcasts Date: 30 Apr 1998 15:49:24 -0400 At 03:07 PM 4/30/98 -0400, you wrote: >Where are, or rather were, people watching these Masada sets from the >KF? > >If they're something that Zorn has agreed about in advance of the shows, >that's one thing, but if they're being bootlegged, that's another. Why >should he condone being abused in that way? > >Anyway, I can't remember the last time I heard anyone complain that an >artist should make their concert performances freely available as a >matter of course. > >Troy > >- > > > Well, the knitting factory has been broadcasting all their mainstage concerts for a while now (or at least the one's I have checked out). So it is not a bootleg (I assume) since the club is doing it. It seems to be their general policy, and is probabally not a bad one because: The sound quality/experience is not good enough that if I were in NYC and wanted to go to a show I would skip it for the internet broadcast, and if I do get to NYC I am much more likely to check out a show there after hearing what type of stuff they play. I think it is good for the artists as well since we can hear what they sound like, if they are good then we can buy their music, its kind of like free advertising. I am quite suprised that Zorn didn't know that this was happening, I mean I've know about it for a while and I didn't have a video camera pointed at me while performing. Just my two cents. Jack Blanton jblanton@kent.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Newgarden <dn@panix.com> Subject: re: Steve Smith's incredibly detailed account of befuddlement at the Roscoe Mitchell concert, NYC 4/27/98 aka 'Spazz At The Philharmonic' Date: 30 Apr 1998 16:45:29 -0400 (EDT) I disagree. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2 <JonAbbey2@aol.com> Subject: Re: Roscoe Mitchell in New York City 4/27/98 Date: 30 Apr 1998 17:26:53 EDT wow, what a comprehensive review by Steve. I agree with the bulk of what he said, but I'd like to add a few things. <<Back in the days when jazz was brand new to me, the reference book I trusted most (no doubt due to the title) was John Swenson's "Rolling Stone Jazz Record Guide" >> Me too. Did you ever notice that Bob Blumenthal got to review almost every good artist in the book? I bought a lot of albums based on the miniscule, sketchy opinions they offered up. Concerning LRG, Steve said: <<I can't say much more than that for me this piece was easily the low point of the evening. It seemed like little more than an exercise in pointillistic frustration.>> No argument here. It was incredibly disjointed and filled with full stops and pauses for no apparent reason. Whenever one of the three musicians played an interesting segment and I felt myself being drawn in a bit, it would abruptly end. I felt like one of two things was occurring in this piece: either this was Mitchell's conception of the piece in which case it was simply a thoroughly incoherent (to my ears, anyway) composition. The other possibility that occured to me was that Mitchell's original composition in 1978 was meant to contain longer parts (which is what I seem to recall from the record) and that Leo Smith wasn't up to playing those anymore so the other two musicians altered what they were doing accordingly. Now, I easily could be completely wrong on this, but from where I was sitting (just a few rows back, on Smith's side), it looked like he was seriously laboring even with the short phrases he played. Like I said, maybe I'm dead wrong; I hope that I am but this was a possibility that occured to me at the time. <<Obviously the sheer variety of tone and timbre all by itself would tend to offer an improvement over the previous piece, but what "The Maze" also brought to the mix was a loose but welcome feeling of structure and order>> One of the reasons I found The Maze more enjoyable than LRG was the continuity. This was probably my favorite piece of the evening. <<Once again some notes as to what Mitchell was exploring in "S II Examples" would have been welcome, but the piece itself, far shorter than the other two, was a fine little exploration of overtones, microtones, breathy almost-tones, and other mostly quiet saxophone noises by Ewart on sopranino, Jarman on soprano and Mitchell on alto. At the time I was put in mind of the World Saxophone Quartet playing Morton Feldman, but in retrospect, I think it falls somewhere between Feldman and Tony Conrad at a low volume.>> More than Feldman or Conrad, this piece reminded me of the Rova record where they play a Terry Riley piece. All in all, a pretty unfulfilling night. I won't miss many chances to see these musicians play, but I'd much prefer to see them in settings where they were less restrained by the material. So who's going to Victoriaville besides me? It looks like the strongest lineup of the three I've been to so far. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2 <JonAbbey2@aol.com> Subject: Re: Evan Parker Date: 30 Apr 1998 17:50:02 EDT In a message dated 4/28/98 11:53:42 AM, c123018@hotmail.com wrote: <<>Speaking of Parker, has anyone heard the new ECM electro-acoustic CD? >I'm interested in some input before shelling out $$ for this as it is >rather expensive as an import. > >Alan Kayser > I bought it for $15 American plus s/h from Downtown. I think it's just GREAT. I've listened to it several times this week alone, and intends to put it down so I don't get sick of it. It's an hour long and ranges from the more "typical" P/G/L approach to a more "ambient" sensibility. I wouldn't be one to judge, because I haven't seen this group live, but more than half of the record seems to bear a very strong "ECM"/Steve Lake-compatible recording aesthetic. (See TIME WILL TELL for comparable reverb/ambience.) >> The ECM record is fine and is worth it as the first recorded document of a great band. I was lucky enough to see this band perform live (along with Sainkho Namchymlak, at Victo in 1996). It's the only concert I've ever attended where I felt like there was more happening than I could comprehend and that I'd like to witness the whole thing again to get a better feel of what I actually thought about it. For those of you who don't know, this band consists of the Parker/Guy/Lytton trio plus Phil Wachsmann (I'm pretty sure it's pronounced Woks-man, by the way) and two Italian musicians whose names escape me right now at work. The latter three are each assigned one of the Parker trio to sample live fragments from and then work them back into the piece. Eventually this leads to so many lines flying around that it's hard to keep track of what's happening, for me anyway. Anyway, my main point was going to be that the just-released Parker record on Leo with Noel Akchote and two electronic musicians, is his most successful of his recent forays into electronically-altered improv. I'd recommend this over the ECM record. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> Subject: Couple of semi-AMM-related questions Date: 30 Apr 1998 17:58:47 -0400 (Apologies if this message comes over more than once. Attempted to send it from work today, apparently unsuccessfully, but it might be belched forth later.) Can anyone cite or recommend: 1) Work by John Tilbury in contexts other than AMM, including performances of other composers works? I understand he's recorded much of the Feldman piano canon for the London Hall label. 2) Recordings by occasional AMM collaborator Howard Skempton? Thanks, Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2 <JonAbbey2@aol.com> Subject: Re: Couple of semi-AMM-related questions Date: 30 Apr 1998 18:43:47 EDT In a message dated 4/30/98 6:00:44 PM, olewnik@IDT.NET wrote: <<Can anyone cite or recommend: 1) Work by John Tilbury in contexts other than AMM, including performances of other composers works? I understand he's recorded much of the Feldman piano canon for the London Hall label. 2) Recordings by occasional AMM collaborator Howard Skempton? >> Well, killing two birds with one stone, the only Skempton recording I know of is called Well Well Cornelius and is solo piano compositions performed by John Tilbury. It's on Sony and was domestically released a year or two back. I haven't heard it in a while and thus can't comment on the music's quality. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: Masada Snit Date: 30 Apr 1998 18:51:25 -0400 (EDT) > Everybody's getting upset because a freebie got cut short? *I'm* upset cuz I > missed the > whole thing since nobody posted anything to this list announcing the webcast. i watches the second set on monday night and i must say it was a VERY DISTANT second to seeing them live at the knit. The net broadcasts are just simply not the same, nor will they ever be. Interesting, yes; exciting?....well, for the first few minutes, maybe... -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Greg Mills <gregm@leftfield.net> Subject: Frank Zappa as composer Date: 30 Apr 1998 15:54:50 -0700 Hello, I think I might be opening a can of worms here, but I gotta question for list members who have a music theory background. Was Frank Zappa a "competent" composer? I like his orchestral stuff, but I am a mere country rube.Was good at what he did, or was he merely adept at making creepy sounds fit together? Perhpas this question is inappropriate, but again, I am a bumpkin. Thanks. GReg Mills - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Roof Date: 30 Apr 1998 18:33:05 -0400 I just picked up Roof's THE UNTRACEABLE CIGAR and absolutely love it! The group consists of the late Tom Cora (cello), Luc Ex (bass - I'm not familiar with him), Phil Minton (vocals) and Michael Vatcher (drums - was on Spy Vs. Spy right?) and they play composed music (with, granted, plenty of improv within). Rock-tinged, super-compositions and playing as could be expected from these guys. They do a rendition of Harry Partch's "The Letter" and a couple tracks have Minton singing lyrics (in addition to his standard wack shit). Super disc! I recommend it lots. Anyway, has this group released anything else worthy of buying?? Thanks for any info. See ya! -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9mi?= Bissonnette <rbisson@courrier.usherb.ca> Subject: Victo festival Date: 30 Apr 1998 19:20:22 -0400 Jon wrote: "So who's going to Victoriaville besides me? It looks like the strongest lin= eup of the three I've been to so far." Well, I am -- but since I live in the area, it's no big feat. I'm looking forward to the Zorn/Patton/Mori gig, since I've never heard these three playing together. I would love to see the Gerry Hemingway Quartet (with Han Bennink opening, no less!) but sadly I really can't make that one. Bruno R=E9mi Bissonnette Ph.D. Professeur titulaire =46acult=E9 d'=C9ducation physique et sportive Universit=E9 de Sherbrooke Sherbrooke, Qu=E9bec J1K 2R1 =20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Steve Smith's incredibly detailed account of befuddlement at the Roscoe Mitchell concert, NYC 4/27/98 aka 'Spazz At The Philharmonic' Date: 30 Apr 1998 19:46:52 -0400 David Newgarden wrote: > I disagree. DAY-VIIIHHDD! No fair! I want to know what you thought! With this reply I don't even know *what* you disagree with! Pretty please? Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Toby Dodds <toby@seanet.com> Subject: WAYNE HORVITZ Date: 30 Apr 1998 18:47:18 -0700 (PDT) Hello! Many of you may already know about this but on the eve of tour I thought I'd send one more message to remind you all to come out and see Zony Mash as they hit the road again this next week. Also there is brand new web site at www.zonymash.com to look over! See you down the road... Smiles, Toby WAYNE HORVITZ & ZONY MASH UPCOMING SHOWS SPRING 1998 Friday, May 1st Berbatti's Pan - Portland, OR Saturday, May 2nd Wow Hall - Eugene, OR Sunday, May 3rd Jambalaya - Arcata, CA Tuesday, May 5th SLO Brewery - San Luis Obispo, CA Wednesday, May 6th The Coach House - Santa Barbara, CA Thursday, May 7th Duffy's Tavern - Chico, CA Friday, May 8th Kresge Hall, UC of Santa Cruz - Santa Cruz, CA Saturday, May 9th Great American Music Hall - San Francisco, CA w/Robin Holcomb! Sunday, May 10th McCabes Guitar Shop - Santa Monica, CA Wednesday, June 3rd NY Jazzfest - New York City w/Jazz Passengers & Squirrel Nut Zippers! Sunday, June 21st DuMaurier Jazz Festival - Vancouver, BC - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Frank Zappa as composer Date: 30 Apr 1998 22:49:42 -0400 Greg Mills wrote: > Was Frank Zappa a "competent" composer? I like his orchestral stuff, but > I am a mere country rube.Was good at what he did, or was he merely adept > at making creepy sounds fit together? He was adept at making sounds fit together... which is about as much of a definition of a "competent" composer as is needed. -- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| -