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From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: bass albums Date: 01 Mar 1998 00:31:52 -0500 Oh, and one more I just found out about tonight... Malachi Favors has a solo disc on the Art Ensemble's little label AECO. Recorded in 1977. Title was something like "Earth and the Firmament." Almost bought it, then decided I needed to save money after paying $29.95 for my Art Ensemble ticket (money exceedingly well spent), then went over to Tower after the concert and bought discs of Martinu and Jussi Bjoerling instead. So much for saving money... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Lang Thompson <wlt4@mindspring.com> Subject: More copyright Date: 01 Mar 1998 02:11:39 -0500 This is a bit off the list topic but it connects with a few recent posts: Does anybody know for sure how the blank tape tax affected copyright law governing duplication? On another list, somebody insisted that the law was revised to allow a single copy of audio and video works to be made for personal use as a sort of exchange for the tape tax. At first I thought he was mis-reading the statutes which seemed to allow that even though people familiar with statutory language could see that it clearly was not referring to personal copying. But he claimed that it's been interpreted that way in court and seemed to have evidence to back the argument up. This seems really unlikely and against the grain of copyright tendencies but my knowledge (a year of copyright and patent law) is several years out of date. Can anybody supply concrete information? Lang Thompson http://www.tcf.ua.edu/wlt4 New at Funhouse: Pazz & Jop Ballot, Overlooked Albums of 1997, expanded links, William Burroughs obituary. "A stroke of the brush does not guarantee art from the bristles." -- Ambassador Kosh - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DIBBLEE <BDIBBLEE@msuvx2.memphis.edu> Subject: Braxton/Weslyan Date: 01 Mar 1998 01:19:56 -0600 (CST) I was wondering if anyone could provide me with some information about Weslyan's music program...specifically graduate program, and the extent of Braxton's involvement there. thanks, Brian Dibblee - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel) Subject: Toshinori Kondo Date: 01 Mar 1998 12:00:03 +0100 A few digests ago, someone mentioned Toshinori Kondo playing on "Die Like A Dog". I don't have this, but I have several other Kondo CDs which are well worth hearing. First (and best) of all, there's "Toshinori Kondo & IMA: Red City Smoke". It's been released here in Germany on JARO. This combined rock, metal, hiphop, jazz and Kondo's wah-wahed electric trumpet to quite a stew. This is really incredible. Then there are two albums, "Taihen" and "Metal Position" which have been put onto one CD by JARO (though I know there is at least one track missing). "Taihen" has Bill Laswell on it, and both are a lot of fun, with strange noises and ideas combined with funky rhythms. On MP, he even covers Herb Alpert's Tihuana Brass Band's "Cerezo Rosae" (sp?). Recently, he released an album with DJ Krush which is called "Ki-Oku". I haven't heard it yet save for the first track, but it seems to be Kondo's "Doo-Bop", just a bit trippier. Then there's another Br÷tzmann recording with him, "The MΣrz Combo". I don't have it yet. Another release of his is "This, That and The Other" which I don't own because I couldn't get into it while listening to it in the shop (Kondo and Cello was fun, but the other tracks..?). Finally, he appears on the Laswell-produced "Herbie Hancock: Sound-System" with a brief but inspired solo. This was my first introduction to Kondo which made me seek out his other works (Red City Smoke was next). Kind regards, Chris. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel) Subject: Celluloid/Subharmonic/Matarazzo/Beinhorn Date: 01 Mar 1998 12:00:04 +0100 Paul Jacobson wrote: > I'm sure Jeff S can clarify the situation further, but my understanding is= > that Matarazzo contols both the catalogues of Celluloid and Subharmonic.= > This has been evident from a number of Celluloid titles now showing up as= > Subharmonic re-issues. > > As Jeff S. has pointed out in the past, Celluloid artists are receiving no= > money from the sales of their recordings, and I would assume that a similar= > situation exists with Subharmonic. So I hardly think that some so= > principled would worry about putting out a substandard release. First of all, this makes me realize how lucky I was to get the original "Sacrifist". Matarazzo leads me to two questions: 1) I have two Subharmonic releases which have the line "Realization by John Matarazzo" on them; these are "Divination: Akasha" and "M.J. Harris/Bill Laswell: Somnific Flux". Do these releases have any flaws as well compared to the original releases, or is Matarazzo credited on each version? 2) Celluloid once was Jean Karakos' label, what happened to him? Did he sell the whole catalogue? Plus, Anton Fier said the whole money of the Cell. re-releases goes to Michael Beinhorn. Now you say Matarazzo gets the money. "I tell you, Scully, there are extraterrestrial forces involved in this. Karakos, Beinhorn and Matarazzo is one and the same person." (???) Can anyone give me some insight on this? While we're at Michael Beinhorn, can anyone tell me something about this non-keyboarder besides the obvious facts (I read the Soundscape liner notes and I know he's a producer for metal and rock bands nowadays)? Kind regards, Chris. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> Subject: AEC, was re: bass albums Date: 01 Mar 1998 08:34:25 -0800 Steve Smith wrote: > > Oh, and one more I just found out about tonight... > > Malachi Favors has a solo disc on the Art Ensemble's little label AECO. Recorded > in 1977. Title was something like "Earth and the Firmament." I think it was 'The Natural and the Spiritual', if I recall correctly; it's the one issue of the initial three (the others being Jarman's 'Sunbound' and Moye's 'Sun Percussion') that I don't have. I'd guess that there's more than solo bass going on there, though... >Almost bought it, > then decided I needed to save money after paying $29.95 for my Art Ensemble > ticket (money exceedingly well spent), then went over to Tower after the concert > and bought discs of Martinu and Jussi Bjoerling instead. So much for saving > money... So, whadja think? I went with a couple of misgivings: 1) I hadn't seen or heard them in Jarman-less form and thought it might hurt. 2) I share the common view that their best days are way behind them and a certain rut-like quality had entered the live shows (though, I'd be the first to admit, it's a pretty high rut). Well, it may not have been 'Bap-Tizum', but it was a very enjoyable show. (What I wouldn't have given to have heard one of them saying, upon arriving on the stage: "Let's cook, c'mon let's cook"). The first half was largely percussive and quiet, Roscoe spending a lot of time in his percussion arsenal, Bowie quite plaintive. True, it was little that they haven't done for thirty years, but they still do it better than most anyone else. (BTW, it dawned on me last night that Favors reached his 60th birthday last year! Yikes!) The second set was more straight ahead, beginning with a piece in the style of Bowie's 'Charlie M', including another reminiscent of 'Walking in the Moonlight' and concluding with the obligatory (and, by now, kinda perfunctory) 'Odwalla' (Sorry, but nothing will ever surpass the 'Bap-tizum' version for sheer drama and power). Mitchell had two extraordinary back-to-back solos on soprano and alto, the former coming out of his work on that horn since 'The Flow of Things', the latter one of his patented gnarly, snorting efforts. I always enjoy the almost perverse pleasure he seems to take in playing _against_ the strong grooves that Moye and Favors set up. They encored with a fine, ferocious and funky number that was new to me. I did miss Jarman and thought the group sounded noticeably thinner without him and I still think I'm unlikely to hear from them anything to really compare with their incredible achievements from 1968-73. That said, I'd rather hear them than 90% of other bands around today and was glad I went. Any other opinions? Steve? Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Silent Watcher" <silent_watcher@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Celluloid/Subharmonic/Matarazzo/Beinhorn Date: 01 Mar 1998 06:44:47 PST > 1) I have two Subharmonic releases which have the line "Realization by John > Matarazzo" on them; these are "Divination: Akasha" and "M.J. Harris/Bill > Laswell: Somnific Flux". Do these releases have any flaws as well compared > to the original releases, or is Matarazzo credited on each version? I'm kind of curious too. I don't have "Somnific Flux" in front of me, but I know my copy of "Akasha" has the "Realization by John Matarazzo" line in the liner notes. I got it when it came out though. These newer version seem to have it slapped right on the back cover, though. Just wondering. SW For Sale/Want List and Laswell Discography @ http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: david thiel <thiel@buffnet.net> Subject: NEW MUSIC REVELATION ENSEMBLE-WITH ZORN Date: 01 Mar 1998 11:04:57 +0000 Next month on DIW a new Musc Revelation Ensemble recording is coming out that will have Zorn and Pharoah Sanders on it. I saw the promotion for it at a local music store,sounds like an interesting CD. Also next month on Zorn's label theres going to be a Gary Lucas recording with Zorn as one of the musicians. Also for SUN RA fans the new book on RA- SPACE IS THE PLACE is great. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2 <JonAbbey2@aol.com> Subject: Subharmonic and Strata Date: 01 Mar 1998 11:49:14 EST OK, here's the deal. It seems like there are a lot of people out there who would like to get their hands on one or more of the CDs on these labels. Well, I have almost all of them (all original issues) and I just don't listen to almost any of them much. So, if there's a Subharmonic or Strata CD that you particularly crave, make me a cash offer in private e-mail and I'll see what I can do. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jtalbot@massart.edu Subject: re: Zorn/Eye box? Date: 01 Mar 1998 12:54:04 -0500 >Hello, >I know there were rumours of a Zorn/Eye box set of 100 discs to be >released. Was it ever? Some person is selling a copy for $400...if it >came out is this a good price? Just curious. (I didn't think it ever had >been released, but I've bought stuff from this person before, so....?) i don't know about you....but i wouldn't pay $400 for zorn himself to play in my living room (well maybe) i heard a lot of these discs are very very short (like a few minutes) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john <jpetrie@vt.edu> Subject: solo bass Date: 01 Mar 1998 13:43:11 +0500 here are some solo bass records that i like (keep in mind i play bass, so i guess i may be biased). some of these have already been mentioned, sorry for the repetition: Dave Holland "Emerald Tears" - Holland is truly amazing and with a solo version of Braxton's Composition Number 69Q, this is a sure winner. Mark Dresser "Invocation" - this is great "contemporary" bass, but not necessarily solo, as much of it is overdubbed. William Parker "Testimony" - part two of the "In Order to Survive" series, around 70 minutes of live solo bass that will blow your mind. Far out but very cool. also, John Lindberg has a solo disc out that is a tribute to David Izenzon, the bassist with Ornette's 60's trio. i haven't heard this yet, but i would be interested in hearing about it. on the topic of Lindberg, has anyone heard his new disc "Bounce" ? Dave Douglas plays on it as well as Ed Thigpen and Larry Ochs. I think it's really a fine record. john - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glenn Astarita <gastarit@comm.net> Subject: RE: NEW MUSIC REVELATION ENSEMBLE-WITH ZORN Date: 01 Mar 1998 12:07:40 -0600 -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, March 01, 1998 5:05 AM Next month on DIW a new Musc Revelation Ensemble recording is coming out that will have Zorn and Pharoah Sanders on it. I saw the promotion for it at a local music store,sounds like an interesting CD. Also next month on Zorn's label theres going to be a Gary Lucas recording with Zorn as one of the musicians. Also for SUN RA fans the new book on RA- SPACE IS THE PLACE is great. [Glenn Astarita] Does anyone know if the Lucas cd will be an acoustic or electric outing ? Just curious... glenn - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: re: Zorn/Eye box? Date: 01 Mar 1998 14:02:37 -0500 (EST) i hear that the entire set has a total of 2 hrs. of music. duh? -jascha > >Hello, > >I know there were rumours of a Zorn/Eye box set of 100 discs to be > >released. Was it ever? Some person is selling a copy for $400...if it > >came out is this a good price? Just curious. (I didn't think it ever had > >been released, but I've bought stuff from this person before, so....?) > > > > i don't know about you....but i wouldn't pay $400 for zorn himself to play in > my living room (well maybe) > > i heard a lot of these discs are very very short (like a few minutes) > > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: bass albums Date: 01 Mar 1998 13:39:32 -0800 On Fri, 27 Feb 1998 22:47:15 Jesse Simon wrote: > > I'm looking for albums of SOLO double bass. That's right. Unaccompanied > double bass. I'm sure some great bassist of the fifties or sixties must > have done one. Ron Carter perhaps? Paul Chambers? Jimmy Garrison? Charlie > Haden? Gary Peacock? Even someone more modern would be good. If anyone > knows of anything, please e-mail me, privately or otherwise. There is a killer one by Maarten van Regteren Altena made in the 70's after he broke his arm (yes, he plays with one arm in plaster!). The record is called HANDICAP (you know why now :-). Forgot if it was released on ICP or on his own label. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Zorn/Eye box? Date: 01 Mar 1998 14:03:06 -0800 On Sat, 28 Feb 1998 19:20:36 -0500 "Jason J. Tar" wrote: > > I know there were rumours of a Zorn/Eye box set of 100 discs to be > released. Was it ever? Some person is selling a copy for $400...if it I never heard of any rumours that it was released. It was seriously envisioned to be released (after a heavy drinking evening I would be tempted to say, although I know Zorn does not drink). Few adds were put here and there (in THE WIRE) for example. Then the label stopped all activity and no news since (which is annoying because some people sent money to the label to get their copy before it was even released). Maybe this person is trying to give you his Sound Factory's receipt confirming that they received his pre-order :-). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #248 Date: 01 Mar 1998 17:15:45 -0500 (EST) I'm new on the list and I asked last week, but here it is again. Has anyone heard the following CDs: Dave Douglas Sanctuary, Steve Beresford Cue Sheets, Anthony Coleman Tzadik stuff, also Ellery Eskelin The Sun Died or Hans Reichel Death of the Rare Bird Ymir and how would you rate these in comparison to their other work (I'm on a budget and have heard other things by the guys but don't know which others to pursue). Thanks in advance. WY - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: bass albums Date: 01 Mar 1998 13:39:32 -0800 On Fri, 27 Feb 1998 22:47:15 Jesse Simon wrote: > > I'm looking for albums of SOLO double bass. That's right. Unaccompanied > double bass. I'm sure some great bassist of the fifties or sixties must > have done one. Ron Carter perhaps? Paul Chambers? Jimmy Garrison? Charlie > Haden? Gary Peacock? Even someone more modern would be good. If anyone > knows of anything, please e-mail me, privately or otherwise. There is a killer one by Maarten van Regteren Altena made in the 70's after he broke his arm (yes, he plays with one arm in plaster!). The record is called HANDICAP (you know why now :-). Forgot if it was released on ICP or on his own label. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re:More Copyright(Very Off-Topic) Date: 01 Mar 1998 17:39:58 -0500 Lang Thompson wrote: > > This is a bit off the list topic but it connects with a few recent posts: > Does anybody know for sure how the blank tape tax affected copyright law > governing duplication? On another list, somebody insisted that the law was > revised to allow a single copy of audio and video works to be made for > personal use as a sort of exchange for the tape tax. At first I thought he > was mis-reading the statutes which seemed to allow that even though people > familiar with statutory language could see that it clearly was not > referring to personal copying. But he claimed that it's been interpreted > that way in court and seemed to have evidence to back the argument up. > This seems really unlikely and against the grain of copyright tendencies > but my knowledge (a year of copyright and patent law) is several years out > of date. Can anybody supply concrete information? Case law up to now has supported the "personal use" allowance(Known as the LaMacchia decision). Generally speaking, if no money changed hands, there was very little basis for prosecution or litigation. But with the passage of the NET(No Electronic Theft) act this past year, everything is once again up in the air. AFAIK, there hasn't yet been any prosecution under this new law. The NET act is a perfect example of how our legislators are bought and paid for by corporate lobbyists. After donating huge sums of soft money to both parties, The Software and music companies were able to write their own legislation, which effectivly transfers the cost of enforcing their patents and copyrights from the private sector(themselves) to the public sector(you & me). Quite a good investment from their point of view. They now have the FBI as their own, taxpayer funded, Piracy Task Force. Check this out. Lets say you're house is robbed. The criminal is arrested and convicted. You as a citizen have no right to participate in the sentencing hearings, or at parole hearings. If you want to be compensated for your loss, you must go to court and sue. BUT, if you are a record/Software company who is robbed by a bootlegger(or just some poor slob running copies for some friends) you get to file a victim impact statement that goes to the judge and probation officer,. and by law, must be taken into account. Are we supposed to be proud as Americans that we place more importance on the protection of intellectual property rights, than on living,breathing, human beings? And if XYZ records were to hijack some unreleased Zorn recording and put it out, Do you think that they would answer the phone at FBI Headquarters when John Zorn calls? How will this affect the average person who wants to make a tape for his car? We wont really know until the first court case is heard, but the phrase as used in this law "Private financial gain" would seem to outlaw any copying whatsoever. And trading of copyrighted works is expressly forbidden.(Yes friends, that means CDs LP's and live tapes) I appologize for the rant, I feel pretty strongly about this. If anyone wants a copy of the law, as passed by congress. email me privatly. Rich - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: bass albums Date: 01 Mar 1998 14:29:16 -0800 Since there has been a long thread on bass albums, I thought it only fitting to start a thread regarding peoples' favorite trout albums. I'd recommecnd Trout Mask Replica by Captain Beefheart Others? Keith - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: bass albums Date: 01 Mar 1998 17:56:41 -0500 Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > There is a killer one by Maarten van Regteren Altena made in the 70's after > he broke his arm (yes, he plays with one arm in plaster!). The record is > called HANDICAP (you know why now :-). Forgot if it was released on ICP or > on his own label. It's on ICP. I've heard quite a lot of good things about this disc but haven't heard it myself yet. Here's something I got at the wonderful http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/ about it. While I was convalescing from a broken left wrist I got the idea that led to this record. Since I couldn't play anyway I thought of handicapping my bass: I put the same kind of cast on it's neck as I had on my wrist. Now my bass and I were in the same fix. This resulted in 'Handicaps I'. The recording quality is not as balanced as in the later pieces. Since I couldn't play for too long with a broken wrist, everything had to be done within a certain amount of time. 'Handicaps II' was recorded when my bass and I were in good health. The idea was inspired by women on old Japanese prints with hairpins inserted in their hair. The bows used are weaved in and out the strings. All other pieces are 'instant composings' except 'The elephant'. This is also the only piece dubbed in one time.' -Maarten van Regteren Altena. listening to: Dave Douglas 'In Our Lifetime' (what a great album!) -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #248 Date: 01 Mar 1998 15:28:22 -0800 On Sun, 1 Mar 1998 17:15:45 -0500 (EST) William York wrote: > > I'm new on the list and I asked last week, but here it is again. Has > anyone heard the following CDs: Dave Douglas Sanctuary, Steve Beresford > Cue Sheets, Anthony Coleman Tzadik stuff, also Ellery Eskelin The Sun Died ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ SEPHARDIC TINGE (Tzadik) is an excellent record. It showcases Coleman in a jazz setting (piano, bass, drums). It is rare to be able to listen to Coleman playing piano straight. For example, there are his duos with Roy Nathanson, but sometimes I would like to tell them to stick to the point and put on a side the jokes and the humour. On SEPHARDIC TINGE, Coleman is amazingly focused. I still believe that after WHOSE BRIDGE, this is the best jazz trio to come up in 1995 (and the Sephardic tinge is not for nothing in its extra charm!). > or Hans Reichel Death of the Rare Bird Ymir and how would you rate these ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ DEATH OF THE RARE BIRD YMIR is one of the most curious and fascinating record ever made in the field of improv. Rarely innovation and accessi- bility have been present to such degree. The music is soft, subtle, unexpected (no "ready to wear" rules, or cliches). The position of Reichel in the German improv scene has always puzzled me. This school is known for its powerfull players and "take no hostage" attitude. Introspection is not what you think first when you listen to some of their records (to say it mildly :-). Reichel is a real exception in the improv scene. He does not seem to be influenced by anybody, and I do not see anybody influenced by him. He has been doing his music regardless of what people think or buy. You are lucky because the FMP CD reissue also includes BONOBO BEACH (that many people prefer to THE DEATH). I also highly recommend his record on Rastascan (LOWER LURUM) where he uses his daxophone (I am still wondering how he can make these noises). > in comparison to their other work (I'm on a budget and have heard other > things by the guys but don't know which others to pursue). Thanks in > advance. WY - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Jacobson <pauljay@webtime.com.au> Subject: Re: Celluloid/Subharmonic/Matarazzo/Beinhorn Date: 02 Mar 1998 19:30:55 +1000 >I'm kind of curious too. I don't have "Somnific Flux" in front of me,=20 >but I know my copy of "Akasha" has the "Realization by John Matarazzo"=20 >line in the liner notes. I got it when it came out though. These newer=20 >version seem to have it slapped right on the back cover, though. Just=20 >wondering. I really can't throw any light on the Matarazzo mystery. It seems that the= promotion from small line on the liner notes to "Bigger than Laswell"= credits on the back cover marked the transition. As to quality issues, Sacrifist is the only one that has come to my notice= (mainly 'cause I traded a copy, and had the disc returned) I haven't heard about Beinhorn's involvement, but Matarazzo's name= definitely turns up all over Celluloid stuff as Executive Producer. One thing that puzzles me is that three of the main Laswell driven labels= of the past 15-20 years have fallen into hands of "unscruplous" operators,= namely Celluloid, Enemy, and Subharmonic/ Strata.=20 If Matarazzo has been a bad operator from back in the Celluloid days, what= was Material Inc. doing business with him on Subharmonic for? Obviously, if= they had any sense they wouldn't. So I suspect that Material Inc. and= Matarazzo fell out after Subharmonic started up. I'd be interested to know= what actually happened.=20 peace=20 Paul material-ism=20 http://users.webtime.com.au/pauljay/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Phil <phil@clarksonp.demon.co.uk> Subject: Matarazzo Date: 02 Mar 1998 05:23:37 -0700 Chris Genzel wrote: > 1) I have two Subharmonic releases which have the line "Realization by John > Matarazzo" on them; these are "Divination: Akasha" and "M.J. Harris/Bill > Laswell: Somnific Flux". Do these releases have any flaws as well >compared > to the original releases, or is Matarazzo credited on each version? I think I have the original release of these & they both credit Matarazzo with Realisation amongst the other credits in the booklet. He doesn't get a credit on the back of the CD cover like on the "new" issue of Sacrifist. Incidentally, I think Matarazzo also ran a world music label called Interra a couple of years ago. The releases were mainly of gamelan & Chinese music & other stuff from the East - all of them had picture CDs & no CD cover or any notes. At the time I thought it was some exotic marketing ploy to create an aura of mystery about them - I now think it was pure laziness & penny-pinching. I've also seen these releases be sold off in new budget-price CDs with new gaudy trashy covers & really poor sleevenotes. Avoid. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jtalbot@massart.edu Subject: bass question Date: 02 Mar 1998 17:50:35 -0500 i'm not a bass player but i'd like to know what is the difference between a double bass, contrabass and just an upright bass? thanks - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Re: bass question Date: 02 Mar 1998 17:04:39 -0600 At 4:50 PM -0600 3/2/98, jtalbot@massart.edu wrote: >i'm not a bass player but i'd like to know what is the difference between a >double bass, contrabass and just an upright bass? thanks I believe a double-bass and a contrabass are the same thing. They're bigger than a bass. That's all I know. I don't think they're in different keys though. Does anyone know? Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stefan Verstraeten <sverstraeten@alpha.ufsia.ac.be> Subject: arto lindsay on knitting factory Date: 02 Mar 1998 13:51:53 +0100 Hi there, As I am a regular reader, I know that someone has the answer to my question: One year (even maybe two years) ago, knitting factory records announced a second album by Arto Lindsay (sort of aggregates 27-54 perhaps). Does anyone know when his second album on Knitting Factory will be released ??? Bye Bye -- Stefan Verstraeten email:stefan.verstraeten@advalvas.be - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re:bass albums Date: 02 Mar 1998 13:32:56 UT <<I'm looking for albums of SOLO double bass. That's right. Unaccompanied double bass. I'm sure some great bassist of the fifties or sixties must have done one. Ron Carter perhaps? Paul Chambers? Jimmy Garrison? Charlie Haden? Gary Peacock? Even someone more modern would be good. If anyone knows of anything, please e-mail me, privately or otherwise.>> Robert Black is an amazing double bass player, but definitely not Jazz. That doesn't mean he isn't doing improv or whatever. In any case, he's excellent. Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: arto lindsay on knitting factory Date: 02 Mar 1998 15:34:34 -0800 On Mon, 02 Mar 1998 13:51:53 +0100 Stefan Verstraeten wrote: > > Hi there, > > As I am a regular reader, I know that someone has the answer to my > question: > > One year (even maybe two years) ago, knitting factory records announced > a second album by Arto Lindsay (sort of aggregates 27-54 perhaps). It was announced in the 96 KF catalog (sent in January 1996). > Does anyone know when his second album on Knitting Factory will be > released ??? The KF does not mention this record anymore in their new catalogue. If it ever happens, I guess it will be on another label. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fran Bacon" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: braxton book:acquisition address Date: 02 Mar 1998 15:37:08 PST Apologies to all for the floop---especially to Mr Martinelli (whose e.mail I lost, and who writes quite well about E. Parker's music, thank you sir)--- for the careless loss of materials: I have recovered my University of Chicago Press catalog and here's the address and information concerning the cheapo sale item NEW MUSICAL FIGURATIONS: ANTHONY BRAXTON"S CULTURAL CRITIQUE by R. Radano: Univ of Chicago Press 11030 South Langley Ave Chicago, Ill. 60628 Pay with MC/Visa/Check Item #548, ISBN #0226.70196.4, $3.00 Shipping: $3.50 for first item, .75 each additional, for orders outside the US add 4.50 (instead of 3.50, I think) and 1.00 each additional. Minimum order $20 (dammit I knew there was a catch...) Peace to all of you! A Mauricio Kagel article you probably haven't seen (ANY of you---and it's not by me or anyone I know) is on its way. Damn FB ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FUNKADELlC <FUNKADELlC@aol.com> Subject: Re: bass albums Date: 02 Mar 1998 19:17:34 EST In a message dated 98-03-02 18:28:36 EST, you write: << Since there has been a long thread on bass albums, I thought it only fitting to start a thread regarding peoples' favorite trout albums. I'd recommecnd Trout Mask Replica by Captain Beefheart Others? Keith >> i like the band FISHBONE a whole lot.. -corn dpg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Benton <rancor@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu> Subject: Re: bass question Date: 02 Mar 1998 18:26:55 -0600 (CST) >>i'm not a bass player but i'd like to know what is the difference >>between a double bass, contrabass and just an upright bass? thanks > >I believe a double-bass and a contrabass are the same thing. They're >bigger than a bass. That's all I know. I don't think they're in >different keys though. Does anyone know? In my experience, the following terms are pretty much totally interchangeable: upright bass, double bass, contrabass, acoustic bass (half the time at least), bass fiddle, bull fiddle, doghouse, string bass...I'm sure there are plenty more I'm not thinking of. I've heard Billy Martin introduce Chris Wood as playing "el basso profundo", which I tend to think is pretty hip. Regardless, back to your point, I'm not so sure that your commment about the double-bass and contrabass being bigger than a bass is exactly right. Basses do come in 2 sizes, "full" and "3/4". Any bass you see in an orchestra or jazz combo is almost certainly a 3/4 size; this is what I play and I don't know if I could handle it if I had to deal with a piece of lumber any bigger than the one I have now. And even if full size basses are perhaps more widely used than I'm thinking, I'm pretty sure that the assignment of names from the seemingly endless list above has nothing to do with size. I certainly welcome any corrections or adendums from fellow bass-folk, I'm sure anybody with connections to bass academia could straighten this right out for us if I've perhaps flubbed a part of this explanation... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: rladew@hopper.unh.edu (Rich Ladew) Subject: william hooker, lee ranaldo Date: 02 Mar 1998 19:29:23 -0500 (EST) comrades: William Hooker and Lee Ranaldo played at the University of New Hampshire last night (Sunday March 1st). I was lucky enough to pick them up at the Manchester NH airport. It was a part of the KF's Loud Music/silent Film project. the film was a homemade one made by Lee and his significant other, Leah Singer. It was very visually experimental (split screens, swirling lights, flares, partial image photographs, and a dizzying close-up shot of flowers. After a while the lens would zoom in and out. William Hooker accompanied Ranaldo's guitar shenanigans on drums. I thought Hooker was the most compelling. He had an incredible amount of energy, and was soaked with sweat when he finished playing. I understand why he goes to his hotel and rests until the very second he goes onstage. Ranldo's guitar playing seemed self-indulgent to some, but as he was swinging (spinning?) his guitar on the floor, and when he was using some of the reverberating chords and effects on his guitar, it was pretty intersting. Altogether, it was a very interesting night. (Lee had someone go look for pot, which I was at a complete loss for. He also talked about Painkiller opening for Sonic Youth and how much he likes Torture Garden) Hooker was really intersted in the Dave Douglas "sanctuary" cd I had in the car, and was telling me about a bill the Tiny Bell Trio played on with him at the KF some time ago, and Hooker also recommend more cds to me than I can remember, but here (10,000 words later) is my question: Hooker mentioned a label ,I think it is calles Silkart or something (from Sweden?) Anyway, the things he was describing sounded fantastic, and Ive got to find more information. Thanks for indulging the long message, Rich rladew@hopper.unh.edu Hoo-Ha!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrick Stockton" <sheepherder@worldnet.att.net> Subject: re: Bass question Date: 02 Mar 1998 16:41:13 -0800 just to clarify a bit further on this issue. there is no actual "full" size string bass. at least as far as i know there is a 7/8 scale bass which is a huge monster of an instrument. i can not see someone under 6'2" or so playing this size bass comfortably. but also it is important to keep in mind that all "nice" string basses are either very old or handmade. like a fine piece of furniture. therefore 3/4 size basses made in different eras by different instrument makers will likely differ in some dimensions. to make a long story short.... all the terms mentioned are synonyms for the same instrument, and the biggest basses are 7/8 scale, while the 3/4 scale basses comprise 90% of all string basses outside of the orchestras. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2 <JonAbbey2@aol.com> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #248 Date: 02 Mar 1998 00:33:36 EST In a message dated 3/1/98 5:20:10 PM, wyork@email.unc.edu wrote: <<I'm new on the list and I asked last week, but here it is again. Has anyone heard the following CDs: Dave Douglas Sanctuary, Steve Beresford Cue Sheets, Anthony Coleman Tzadik stuff, also Ellery Eskelin The Sun Died or Hans Reichel Death of the Rare Bird Ymir and how would you rate these in comparison to their other work (I'm on a budget and have heard other things by the guys but don't know which others to pursue). Thanks in advance. WY>> The Eskelin record is a superb tribute to Gene Ammons, easily my favorite record by him. The Reichel record is also really good, the best of the 2 or 3 FMPs by him that I've heard. The Douglas record seems to me to be more of a work in progress than his other bands are. The Beresford I've only heard once or twice but it didn't seem essential. And I haven't heard Coleman's stuff as a leader. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: bass albums Date: 02 Mar 1998 09:48:09 -0500 (EST) On Sat, 28 Feb 1998, Nils Jacobson wrote: > I would highly recommend the William Parker album *Testimony*. This is > very fine stuff, pretty out there, lots of scratching and higher order > harmonics. It's on Zero-In and may be a bit hard to find, but if you > have enjoyed Parker in other contexts this is definitely one to check out. gotta second this recommendation and actually _testimony_ is pretty easy to get through www.forcedexposure.com. over 70 minutes of solo bass improvising taken from a show (or maybe shows?) @ the knitting factory. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: william hooker, lee ranaldo Date: 02 Mar 1998 20:51:23 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Rich Ladew wrote: > Hooker mentioned a label ,I think it is calles Silkart or > something (from Sweden?) I imagine this is Silkheart, who, among other things, put out the earliest Charles Gayle recordings I'm aware of. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: The Third Annual VISION FESTIVAL Date: 02 Mar 1998 13:36:23 -0500 Received the following on another mailing list and thought it might have some interest here. ============== Greetings Friends, The first official dispatch with regards to this magnificent week of profound music. IF YOU ARE A RADIO STATION or MAGAZINE, please spread this information to your listener/readership immediately. If you're not a media outlet, please tell all of your friends and plan your NYC visit accordingly. This festival is artist-organized and sponsored, so your help is very, well, helpful; and appreciated. THE THIRD ANNUAL VISION FESTIVAL MAY 18 - 25, 1998 at the ORENSANZ ART CENTER: Lower East Side, Manhattan 8 nights this year! A jazz festival focused on the ecstatic adventure in the music like no other in the world. MONDAY MAY 18 Opening Invocation: JOSEPH JARMAN / ANDREA PARKINS + JIM BLACK Duo / PARAPHRASE: TIM BERNE, DREW GESS, TOM RAINEY / FRANK LOWE Quartet / JOHN ZORN'S MASADA STRING TRIO TUESDAY MAY 19 WARREN SMITH + BILL COLE Ensemble / CHARLES GAYLE / RASHID ALI's Prima Materia / MARK WHITECAGE Quartet / ELLEN CHRISTI / Dance: KJ HOLMES with ROY CAMPBELL / Poet: EVE PACKER with WILBUR MORRIS WEDNESDAY MAY 20 JEMEEL MOONDOC / CARLOS WARD Trio / BILLY BANG / COOPER-MOORE Ensemble / Dance: MARIA MITCHELL with MARION BROWN / Poet: SHIRLEY LeFLORE with J.D. PARRON's Spirit Song THURSDAY MAY 21 BILLY BANG / WILLIAM HOOKER Trio / JOE MORRIS Trio / GOLD SPARKLE BAND / Dance: Mickey Davidson with NEWMAN BAKER FRIDAY MAY 22 TEST: SABIR MATEEN, DANIEL CARTER, TOM BRUNO, MATTHEW HEYNER / THOMAS BUCKNER + ROSCOE MITCHELL / JASON HWANG Far East Band / WHIT DICKEY Trio / DAVID S. WARE Quartet / Dance: PATRICIA NICHOLSON with JOSEPH JARMAN and COEN AALBERT / Poet: LOUIS REYES RIVERA SATURDAY MAY 23 MILFORD GRAVES / KIDD JORDAN / PETER KOWALD + JEN HI KIM / ROB BROWN Quartet / OTHER DIMENSIONS IN MUSIC / Poet: STEVE DALACHINSKY SUNDAY MAY 24 MATTHEW SHIPP String Trio / ASSIF TSAHAR + SUSIE IBARRA Duo / WILLIAM PARKER's Little Huey Creative Music Orchestra / JOE McPHEE / JAKI BYARD Solo / Dance: YOSHIKO CHUMA / Poet: TED JONES MONDAY MAY 25: MEMORIAL DAY TRIBUTE TO THE LATE JIMMY LYONS ANDREW CYRILLE Solo / KAREN BORCA Quintet / RAPHE MALIK / PAUL MURPHY JIMMY LYONS BIG BAND with All Star Players Tickets are $20 per night; festival pass for all 8 nights is $100. There will be a number to call for such reservations; we'll get that together shortly....for e.dispatch #2. Kind Regards, Steven Joerg AUM FIdelity PO Box 170147 Brooklyn, NY 11217 http://www.aumfidelity.com "It's a mountain." --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: NEW MUSIC REVELATION ENSEMBLE-WITH ZORN Date: 02 Mar 1998 20:57:10 -0500 (EST) On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, david thiel wrote: > Next month on DIW a new Musc Revelation Ensemble recording is coming out > that will have Zorn and Pharoah Sanders on it. I saw the promotion for > it at a local music store,sounds like an interesting CD Although I saw a similar promotion at one store, I got this (assuming we're both talking about _Cross Fire_) about a month and a half ago at another store. Distribution of foreign labels in the US can get very confusing... Anyway, it's not groundbreaking, but it's a very solid example of Blood Ulmer's approach. Zorn and Sanders each play on about half the record, no overlap. Zorn stays pretty firmly in an Ornette bag, making his contributions a bit less intriguing than Pharoah's. (I already how Blood and Ornette sound together.) But I don't mean that as much of a criticism. It's a very enjoyable disc. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Marcin.Witkowski@wor.tvp.com.pl Subject: Ornette Coleman Date: 02 Mar 1998 12:04:53 +0100 I found Coleman's "Virgin Beauty" LP and I fall in love. I thought that Ornette Coleman plays free jazz music only (my first contact with Coleman was Zorn's "Spy vs spy"). Could someone tell me there are more such a beauty Coleman's albums or is it the only one? Thanks Marcin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fran Bacon" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: creative music for newbies Date: 02 Mar 1998 18:09:45 PST Evangelism seems to be the product of conviction and enthusiasm, and whereas I generally do not discourage people from sharing their beliefs, interests, and opinions in a forthright, and even aggressive manner-- perhaps subsequent to a not-entirely-self-serving agenda--I must confess annoyance and/or fear when the presentation of ideas (?) takes a turn for the pathological. Anyway (whew!)....I myself am inclined toward being like Chad the Jazz Nanny from JERRY MCGUIRE; this is something I tend to be vigilant about, because it expends energy which could be spent more wisely (cultivating friendships, opening my own mind to new ideas/sounds) and it looks absurd and is often futile if the other person(s) aren't interested in the first damn place. BUT: without apology I practice apologetics for free-jazz(-improv, creative music, "good" noise, etc) when confronted by someone. And everyonce ina while (weekly) I practice generosity and lend dozens of records out. Not on a mission--just love the stuff I love and would like to bounce it off other people who I also like and respect. But is it not possible to be clumsy and counterproductive in one's "presentation of ideas", as casual and SOLICITED as that presentation may be? In other words: What (however many, as many as you'd like) particular records or types of stuff do you think would be thoughtful and penetrating, yet accessible enough to make the "uninitiated" (pardon the elitist flare) hungry for more? Three instant apologies: 1. Maybe this has already been discussed: I just don't know about it. 2. What are the "newbies" already into? Geez this is impossible. Pretend the person like Tool a lot. Or maybe is a little more out than that. They've always liked Hendrix but are definitely dissatisfied with classic rock as well as punk, to a degree. They may dig some hiphop, like let's say Wu-tang Clan. They think Fushitsusha is a type of ethnic food served to you by Pierre Boulez, a waiter they think they knew from Philadelphia. The general idea is: what would captivate a bored/jaded mofo right off the bat, or after first twenty minutes, and make him/her say "wait a minute..." 3. Mix tape schematics are also welcome. P.s. Creative music=__________. Risk a lack of discrimination. Indulge. I'm not scared of labels, but I've annoyed everyone including myself with them, so look at Creative Music-as-a-label the way Henri bergson saw watches (a machine, a convenience, nothing nothing else). Much thanks to the participants and the patient. Bye. ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Filmworks VIII Date: 01 Mar 1998 21:01:43 -0500 I picked up 'Filmworks VIII' the other day because of the rave reviews on this list and I love it. It's by far the most enjoyable of the Filmworks discs I've heard thus far. Sometimes I have a hard time with the Filmworks discs but certainly not this one. Both soundtracks on this are really excellent. I recommend it wholeheartedly! In addition, I picked up the new Busta Rhymes record today and it is also really great. Busta Rhymes is a very original rapper making some great music. The guy at the counter found it odd that I was buying Zorn and Busta at the same time but oh well. I'm really into Busta Rhymes. avoiding my homework... -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JRZ <zube@winternet.com> Subject: Re: classic soul Date: 02 Mar 1998 12:05:00 -0600 At 03:38 AM 2/28/98 -0500, Christopher Hamilton wrote: > > >On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, JRZ wrote: > >> I usually like to buy the original albums instead of an anthology. >> Anthologies rarely capture the same flow or feel as the original release. >> There's a reason the songs were placed that way. > >But a lot of great sixties soul records only ever existed on singles or >anthologies. The album as the primary artifact is a relatively recent >phenomenon for pop music. Very true, If you want to hear Judge Shorty Long you need to get an anthology. But, if I had the choice I'd try to get a copy of the original release. zube (young america at it's best) my tapelist http://www.winternet.com/~zube/tapelist.htm I am not only prepared to retract the above statements but to deny under oath that I ever made them - Tom Lehrer - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> Subject: Re: Filmworks VIII Date: 02 Mar 1998 21:29:00 -0800 Tom Pratt wrote: > > I picked up 'Filmworks VIII' the other day because of the rave reviews > on this list and I love it. It's by far the most enjoyable of the > Filmworks discs I've heard thus far. Sometimes I have a hard time with > the Filmworks discs but certainly not this one. Both soundtracks on this > are really excellent. I recommend it wholeheartedly! Seconded and then some; a beautiful record. As impressed as I am by JZ's compositional skills, I'd still be amazed if the section titled 'Shanghai' was not derived, at least partially, from some pre-existing Chinese folk song. Does anyone know about this? If he wrote this from scratch, my hat's in doffing mode in perpetuity. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: NEW MUSIC REVELATION ENSEMBLE-WITH ZORN Date: 02 Mar 1998 00:01:04 -0500 Glenn Astarita wrote: > Does anyone know if the Lucas cd will be an acoustic or electric outing ? Just curious... Unfortunately there's no answer to your question on it, but this is as good an opportunity to mention a site I just came across which may have been mentioned before but not to my recollection... http://www.garylucas.com Loads of information, tourdates, discography, etc. Nicely done. Keep checking it, as I'm sure there will be information about the new disc before long. But perhaps someone out there has seen the March Koch book? (I've only seen the classical book myself.) Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john petrie <jpetrie@vt.edu> Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman Date: 02 Mar 1998 21:55:13 +0500 Marcin, you have just discovered possibly the most important post-Parker saxophonist and composer in the creative music idiom. John Zorn could not exist without the advances of this man. While many unfortunately labe his music as "free jazz" i would strongly disagree. This music was indeed revolutionary when his first records came out (1959 for the great Atlantic reocrds, '57 for the Contemporary records) and many people thought that it was indeed formless and that Coleman was a fake. However thirty years later, i can't help but think that these people must be very embarrassed. anyway the record you bought features his electric group, PrimeTime. If you dig Virgin Beauty others to look for are: Body Meta, Tone Dialing and the indispensible In All Languages. i highly recommend In All Languages as a great indtroduction to Ornette's music. It has been recently reissued on cd and features his "original" quartet in addition to Prime Time. Also after this i would say go ahead and fork out the cash for the Beauty is a Rare Thing box set. This is six discs of classic jazz. sorry for getting carried away... john - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman Date: 02 Mar 1998 22:19:58 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 2 Mar 1998 Marcin.Witkowski@wor.tvp.com.pl wrote: > I found Coleman's "Virgin Beauty" LP and I fall in love. > I thought that Ornette Coleman plays free jazz music only > (my first contact with Coleman was Zorn's "Spy vs spy"). > Could someone tell me there are more such a beauty Coleman's albums or > is it the only one? Coleman's work tends to be extremely melodic, and not much like Zorn's take on the compositions. _Virgin Beauty_ is, however, unusually upbeat and uncluttered sounding. If you like this one, you might want to check out the recent _Tone Dialing_ (a bit less upbeat and more rhythmically aggressive than _Virgin Beauty_, but still similar) or, in a more traditional jazz context, his early records on Contemporary (_Something Else!_ and _Tomorrow is the Question_). These last two don't sound much like _Virgin Beauty_, but are similarly nonabrasive. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leon lee <llee15@ccsf.cc.ca.us> Subject: re: iceburn Date: 01 Mar 1998 18:48:37 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:40:01 -0500 is there anyone interested in the band Iceburn (or the iceburn collective)? the iceburn collective is releasing their latest record called "Power of the Lion" -- recorded last summer with a different configuration. The pieces based on some ideas about modulation. I haven't heard it but anyone who is interested, i'll post a review when i get an advance copy. Anyhow, iceburn is not touring this summer (unlike the last 8 or 9 summers) but will be doing some laps of the u.s. sometime soon. They've also released a 12" called "Leos" which is very limited and have hand-made covers. Mine is a bunch of police photos of where drug traffickers hid their drugs on their body. is there another place where music we like is discussed that's not nyc based? leon disclaimer:it's all blue. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman Date: 02 Mar 1998 23:15:34 -0500 john petrie wrote: > anyway the record you bought features his electric group, PrimeTime. > If you dig Virgin Beauty others to look for are: Body Meta, Tone Dialing and > the indispensible In All Languages. Which reminds me: was Ornette's "Of Human Feelings" ever issued on CD? If so, is it available anywhere? It's my favorite of the Prime Time recordings, and I've only seen it on vinyl. -- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Howard <Howard@3DI.com> Subject: RE: bass albums Date: 02 Mar 1998 08:55:51 -0600 I'm looking for albums of SOLO double bass. That's right. Unaccompanied double bass. I'm sure some great bassist of the fifties or sixties must have done one. Ron Carter perhaps? Paul Chambers? Jimmy Garrison? Charlie Haden? Gary Peacock? Even someone more modern would be good. If anyone knows of anything, please e-mail me, privately or otherwise. Thanks, Jesse Dave Holland's Emerald Tears on ECM remains the best I have heard, from his peak during the 70's. john - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Filmworks VIII Date: 02 Mar 1998 23:25:24 -0500 Brian Olewnick wrote: > Seconded and then some; a beautiful record. As impressed as I am by JZ's > compositional skills, I'd still be amazed if the section titled > 'Shanghai' was not derived, at least partially, from some pre-existing > Chinese folk song. Does anyone know about this? If he wrote this from > scratch, my hat's in doffing mode in perpetuity. Actually, if you shift a fairly small number of notes around, it's "She'll Be Comin' Round the Mountain". 1/2-) -- ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jesse Simon <umsimo10@cc.UManitoba.CA> Subject: Re: bass albums Date: 01 Mar 1998 22:33:38 Wow! Thanks to everyone who sent their recommendations for bass albums. I'm looking forward to finding some of them. Digging through my record collection I found a track I'd forgotten about at the end of John Coltrane and Pharaoh Sanders Live in Seattle, which is a reasonbly long piece for solo bass (about eight minutes, I recall) performed by Jimmy Garrison. It's not an entire album by any stretch, but quite lovely. cheers, jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com> Subject: Re: Filmworks VIII Date: 02 Mar 1998 20:57:16 -0800 (PST) On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Joseph Zitt wrote: > Actually, if you shift a fairly small number of notes around, it's > "She'll Be Comin' Round the Mountain". 1/2-) haha! that's exactly what i thought too! hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Re: bass albums Date: 02 Mar 1998 09:51:04 -0600 Jesse, I know Dave Holland has done a couple at least. I'm trying to remember the names of them... Emerald Tears (maybe)... I actually have never heard them but I want to! Dave Holland is great. I just wish his stuff wasn't so close to the cheesy border. Dan At 10:47 PM -0600 2/27/98, Jesse Simon wrote: >I'm looking for albums of SOLO double bass. That's right. Unaccompanied >double bass. I'm sure some great bassist of the fifties or sixties must >have done one. Ron Carter perhaps? Paul Chambers? Jimmy Garrison? Charlie >Haden? Gary Peacock? Even someone more modern would be good. If anyone >knows of anything, please e-mail me, privately or otherwise. > >Thanks, >Jesse > > >- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman (plus Don Cherry Eternal Rhythm) Date: 03 Mar 1998 01:14:02 -0500 Joseph Zitt wrote: > Which reminds me: was Ornette's "Of Human Feelings" ever issued on CD? It was issued in Japan, of course. Antilles / Polystar J33D-20002. And I agree... to me, this album is the very essence of Prime Time, and in fact any time Prime Time comes to mind it's the snappy Tacuma bass and Ornette's Stravinsky quote at the beginning of "Sleep Talk" that I hear in my head, without fail. But this is an older CD (what an oxymoron that *still* sounds like) so it may be hard to find. Speaking of made in Japan, earlier this evening quite by accident I snatched up a Japanese CD pressing of another rare old favorite of mine that's been discussed 'round these parts lately: Don Cherry's "Eternal Rhythm." That has an issue date of September 3, 1997, so maybe folks have seen it already. Label is MPS, catalog number is POCJ-2520. Listening to this again after years of leaving the vinyl in its sleeve, and especially having listened to lots of real gamelan in the meantime, it sounds especially fresh and enthralling. Could've made more use of Sonny Sharrock, but whatever. Mighty fine, at $19.99. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Re: bass albums Date: 02 Mar 1998 09:55:31 -0600 How about Trout Fishing in America... It's my favorite, however, I've never heard it. Dan At 4:29 PM -0600 3/1/98, Keith McMullen wrote: >Since there has been a long thread on bass albums, I thought it only fitting >to start a thread regarding peoples' favorite trout albums. > >I'd recommecnd Trout Mask Replica by Captain Beefheart > >Others? > >Keith > > >- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dmcrump@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu (Rusty Crump) Subject: Re: bass albums Date: 02 Mar 1998 09:09:00 -0600 >I'm looking for albums of SOLO double bass. That's right. Unaccompanied >double bass. I'm sure some great bassist of the fifties or sixties must >have done one. Ron Carter perhaps? Paul Chambers? Jimmy Garrison? Charlie >Haden? Gary Peacock? Even someone more modern would be good. If anyone >knows of anything, please e-mail me, privately or otherwise. > >Thanks, >Jesse > Since Cory Sklar mentioned DOS, let me throw my 2=A2 in. Uno Con Dos came out on New Alliance Records (Watt & D. Boon's label, dist. by SST; the first Husker Du record came out on this label) and combines the first EP and the first LP. This is definitely worth having. Vocals are kept to a minimum, and when they are there, they're usually well chosen: Kira sings a cover of Billie Holiday's "Don't Explain" and Watt grunts out Sonic Youth's "Pacific Coast Highway." Justamente Tres is on Kill Rock Stars, and in my opinion, it's pure cack. Just a complete mess. Watt/Kira exhausted their personal set of possibilities early on, long before they got to this one. The music is badly-recycled "Uno Con Dos" and there are too many songs with vocals. Blerf. Rusty Crump Oxford, Mississippi - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrick Stockton" <sheepherder@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman Date: 02 Mar 1998 23:16:05 -0800 sorry to rehash that which was already expressed in another post but... i felt the need, due to my strong convictions concerning Ornette, to reinforce what was previously stated with the goal in mind that hearing a confirmation of an opinion will drive home what happens to be fact and an aesthetic truth. run-on-sentence notwithstanding, i digress. "tone dialing" and "in all languages" are MUST HAVES for any person who genuinely appreciates music on any level. i will not state my reasons for such a claim, for fear of lack of objectivism on my behalf. but TRUST ME, if you are rolling around your local CD store (support your local chain, fuck TOWER!) and you are not sure what to pick up, look under "Coleman" and pick up either or both of these works..... if you find them. unfortunately the only discs filed under Ornette are usually: "free jazz" and "the shape of jazz to come". we can change that by buying the good shit. patrick in portland - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: Re: Praxis Date: 02 Mar 1998 12:08:25 +0100 (MEZ) i already sent that but it didnt reach the list i guess: here in germany i just bought sacrifist as a special offer from a mailorder service... seems to be the original version (8 tracks, no executive producer etc.) very cool record.....love it BJOERN - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john shiurba <shiurba@sfo.com> Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman Date: 03 Mar 1998 01:08:21 -0700 > "tone dialing" and "in all languages" are MUST HAVES for any person who > genuinely appreciates music on any level. .... > pick up either or both of these works..... if you find them. unfortunately > the only discs filed under Ornette are usually: "free jazz" and "the shape > of jazz to come". we can change that by buying the good shit. jesus, are you saying that "tone dialing" is the 'good shit'? compared to "tsojtc" & "free jazz"? get ahold of yourself, man. -- shiurba@sfo.com http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Panthalassa Date: 03 Mar 1998 10:09:49 GMT0BST An important (?!) correction to my earlier posted comments on Panthalassa, in which I gave the impression that the "In A Silent Way" medley is just remix and edit - that is, apart from the complete waste of the first 75 seconds (wind -organ?- noises) it doesn't contain anything not heard on the original album. OOOPS! Actually, after the four minutes of the Silent way theme (rendered by McLaughlin, then Shorter, then Davis), at which point the original cuts to About That Time, there's a further 55 seconds of this legendary 30 minute version that Bill says the original came from, featuring McLaughlin noodling. Quite pleasant, but hardly earth shattering! News of trainspotting on the other medleys will undoubtedly follow! Sean - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: William York Date: 03 Mar 1998 10:40:28 GMT0BST William York asked about, inter alia, Douglas' Sanctuary and Eskelin's The Sun Died. The Eskelin, I like the best of all his stuff that I've heard. Not as out as Figure Of Speech, it's a tribute to Gene Ammons, with Ribot on guitar filling the organ / guitar / bass / piano role, and Wollesden on drums. But if you don't like the early 60s soul end of hard bop, then you might find it disappointing ... The Douglas, I've just spent a lot of time with, and overcome my initial ennui - I was torked at not getting it as cheap as first promised by CdNow. I'd have to say, though, that the sextet albums (In Our Lifetime and Stargazer) remain my first choices for DD; Sanctuary should be heard if you're a Douglas devotee, but if your budget's tight I wouldn't insist you rush out for it. Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Ornette's Virgin Beauty Date: 03 Mar 1998 10:52:03 GMT0BST Marcin: it's one of a kind! But now you've heard it you'll find a lot of his other music equally appealing. Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: silkart? Date: 03 Mar 1998 10:55:21 GMT0BST As well as the earliest Charles Gayle, Silkheart put out Charles Brackeen's Worshippers Come Nigh and Attainment, which I plug tirelessly on these pages. The tunes are like heavy rock riffs and the playing is awesome!! get em' now before I plug them again! Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Sun Ra Date: 03 Mar 1998 11:01:49 GMT0BST David Thiel mentioned a book on Ra. Does it have a decent discography? I am thoroughly baffled by the session details and the conflicting sleeve notes on the Evidence reissues ... for instance, Enlightenment on Jazz In Silhouette seems to be the same version as that on Sun Sound Pleasure (though the mix or transfer sounds a little different), though the details given differ. I don't have the time I used to, to sort this all out by ear (I used to be long-term unemployed on the 1970s Miles' live recordings). Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Trout Date: 03 Mar 1998 11:48:51 GMT0BST I second Keith's recommendation of Trout Mask Replica but let's not forget Eric Dolphy's Trout To Lunch, Trout There, and Troutward Bound; Booker Little's Trout Front; Roy Haynes (with Roland Kirk) Trout Of The Afternoon; Sun Ra's Trout Or Spaceways Inc. (though Ra himself chose the Spaceways). Viz. bass, Holland's "Ones All" is very good. I find it hard to believe that Ron Carter never made a solo album?? Sean Wilkie - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: Re: Filmworks VIII Date: 03 Mar 1998 13:17:09 +0100 (MEZ) have to agree with all the positive reviews of this one..... got it yesterday and love it... B - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Valverde,J" <J.Valverde@lse.ac.uk> Subject: New Tzadik Release -- Ikue Mori: B/Side Date: 03 Mar 1998 12:38:31 -0000 I was wondering if this CD has been released yet, and if anyone would care to offer their thoughts on it. Thanks James - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com> Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman Date: 03 Mar 1998 08:20:23 -0500 Joseph Zitt wrote: > john petrie wrote: > > > anyway the record you bought features his electric group, > PrimeTime. > > If you dig Virgin Beauty others to look for are: Body Meta, Tone > Dialing and > > the indispensible In All Languages. > > Which reminds me: was Ornette's "Of Human Feelings" ever issued on CD? > > If so, is it available anywhere? It's my favorite of the Prime Time > recordings, and I've only seen it on vinyl. Of Human Feelings was released as an early Japanese import. It is long out of print. Alan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com> Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman Date: 03 Mar 1998 08:31:55 -0500 Marcin.Witkowski@wor.tvp.com.pl wrote: > I found Coleman's "Virgin Beauty" LP and I fall in love. > I thought that Ornette Coleman plays free jazz music only > (my first contact with Coleman was Zorn's "Spy vs spy"). > Could someone tell me there are more such a beauty Coleman's albums or > > is it the only one? > Thanks > Marcin > Ornette tagged one of his LPs "Free Jazz" but his playing is far from what we now call free jazz. Thus he is not in the Albert Ayler shtick, not that there's anything wrong with that! I think "In All Languages" is a good place to go since both the acoustic and electric Ornette are located there. However, far more "beauty" can be found on the Atlantic recordings. If you have the $$$ and the desire, buy the box set "Beauty is a Rare Thing." This contains all of the recordings still in existence from the Atlantic period. If $ is a concern then go for "This Is Our Music" "Shape of Jazz" or "Change of the Century" where you will find Ornette at his best. On the electric side, "Body Meta" is good, "Tone Dialing" varies from excellent to just ok. The two new Harmolodic cds with Geri Allen are both excellent and Ornette is in top form. You can't go wrong with either one of them. For long time Ornette fans like myself there's a shock factor of hearing Geri Allen play piano on an Ornette recording, but for newcomers that's not a problem at all. Good hunting Alan Kayser > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Ornette Date: 03 Mar 1998 13:00:16 GMT0BST No No No: keep away from Tone Dialing!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com> Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman Date: 03 Mar 1998 09:14:59 -0500 On Mon, 02 Mar 1998 21:55:13 +0500, john petrie said: > you have just discovered possibly the most important post-Parker >saxophonist and composer in the creative music idiom. John Zorn could not >exist without the advances of this man. Well said! Zorn also has laid a lot of important groundwork himself. >many people thought that it >was indeed formless and that Coleman was a fake. However thirty years later, >i can't help but think that these people must be very embarrassed. I hate to say it but this is doubtful. These same people are probably now hailing Wyton as a genius and haven't learned/understood anything. > anyway the record you bought features his electric group, PrimeTime. >If you dig Virgin Beauty others to look for are: Body Meta, Tone Dialing and >the indispensible In All Languages. All good choices. My favorite Prime Time record is Opening the Caravan Of Dreams. Still have some fond memories of his show at Lincoln Center. Acoustics were pretty pitiful (esp. considering what a famous concert hall it is). Ornette and Badal Roy were STUNNING! The video and the dancers were interesting attractions but like most I really picked up on the 'freak show' with the woman walking on broken glass, the woman who broke a cinder block over another who was on a bed of nails and... (can't remember the other one, a contortionist?). John Szwed had an interesting take on this: Ornette told Prime Time that he really admired the way that sword swallowers, body piercers and contortionists stretched the body and moved it to places which people can't move them. They redefine the body. He said 'if we could only get the music to be that redefined and get the sound as flexible as the body is.' Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: David Keffer <keffer@shell.planetc.com> Subject: The Death of the Rare Bird Ymir and FW VIII Date: 03 Mar 1998 09:18:32 -0500 Two things: First: "The Death of the Rare Bird Ymir" Yesterday and today, I've seen a couple people comment very positively on Hans Reichel's "The Death of the Rare Bird Ymir". I add my praise to theirs. The Ymir/Bonobo disc is, to date, the premiere Reichel guitar disc. Hands down. The original question asked was, if liking other recordings by Reichel, was Ymir a good buy? The answer is yes. Patrice also mentioned "Lower Lurum" as a good disc for guitar and daxophone. It's good but, in terms of essentials, I have a different opinion. Ymir is Reichel's disc for guitar and "Shanghaied on Tor Road" is Reichel's incomparable disc for daxophone. (Shanghaied is also on FMP, maybe 1992.) "Lower Lurum" doesn't compare to "Shanghaied" in terms of absolute daxophone magnificence. On "Lower Lurum" the daxophone has a muted presence beside the guitar. On "Shanghaied", the daxophone appears unconstrained and roaring. "Shanghaied on Tor Road" is the single-most alien-to-this-planet music (not noise) that I have heard. Second: People have been going crazy about FW VIII and I can't believe people are saying it's the best FW he's ever put out. My point of view is this. If you listen to a soundtrack like that on FW III with Ribot and Zorn doing sax/guitar duets, you think, not only is this damn fantastic but only Zorn would have composed it. When you listen to "Port of Last Resort", I kept thinking that I had heard those tracks before. In fact, I started humming the words to a song every time I heard the second track, "Shanghai". I wasn't going to mention this, but having read this on the list, >Brian Olewnick wrote: >As impressed as I am by JZ's >compositional skills, I'd still be amazed if the section titled >'Shanghai' was not derived, at least partially, from some pre-existing >Chinese folk song. I will. You can sing the American folk song, "She'll be coming around the mountain when she comes" to Track 2, ("Shanghai" I think). That's right, get out your disc and sing along. I myself don't think that this is anywhere close to the strongest FW output. Music very similar to the song "Ruan", of which there are three versions on FW VIII, has appeared, I think, in soundtracks to about 20 Chinese movies. It may be nice but it lacks Zorn's signature; anybody could have composed it (and some people already have, or variations thereof). Not to be totally down on the disc, "Latin Boys go to Hell" is pretty good, but whose going to say Zorn's best FW is all percussion? As always, these preposterous opinions are provided gratis by David K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Tors <jtors@usinteractive.com> Subject: Andy Statman and Masada on WNYC Date: 03 Mar 1998 07:17:39 -0700 March 9th at 11pm on WNYC (93.9 FM) they are broadcasting Andy Statman Quartet and John Zorn's Masada live from Merkin Hall. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman Date: 03 Mar 1998 09:00:41 -0600 (CST) On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Patrick Stockton wrote: > "tone dialing" and "in all languages" are MUST HAVES for any person who > genuinely appreciates music on any level. i will not state my reasons for > such a claim, for fear of lack of objectivism on my behalf. but TRUST ME, I was disappointed by "Tone Dialing". It's missing the clarity of earlier Prime Time, being overloaded with rappers, keyboards, and other bells and whistles that distract from the focus without integrating as well into the ensemble work. You'll do better with "Body Meta" or "Dancing in Your Head", as well as with the hard-to-find "Of Human Feelings" and "Live at the Caravan of Dreams". (I also didn't particulary care for "Virgin Beauty".) IMHO, of course. On the other hand, "In all Languages" *is* essential, not only for the playing but for its insights into the way the material works: most pieces on it appear there twice, once by Prime Time and once by the acoustic quartet. - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard E Ladew <rladew@hopper.unh.edu> Subject: WUNH Durham: Modern Jazz report March 2 1998 (fwd) Date: 03 Mar 1998 10:23:00 -0500 (EST) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- >To: Report >From: rladew@hopper.unh.edu (Rich Ladew) >Subject: WUNH Durham: Modern Jazz report March 2 1998 > >Modern Jazz/PCP House of Coffee Playlist >c/o Rich Ladew >WUNH Durham, New Hampshire 91.3fm >Memorial Union Building (MUB) >Durham NH 03824 >rladew@hopper.unh.edu >(603) 659-1732 > >Modern Jazz/PCP House of Coffee playlist for March 2nd 1998 >Roughly 4-6 hours of weekly play > >(Artist) >(ALbum Title, if available) >(Label, if available) > >1.Thomas Chapin Trio > >(Knitting Factory) >2. Dave Douglas >(Sanctuary) >(Avant) > >3. Brad Shepik and The Commuters >(The Loan) >(songlines) > >4. Ben Goldberg/Schott/Sarin >(What Comes before) >(Tzadik) > >5. William Hooker >(title and label unavailable) > >6. John Zorn >(Angelus Novus) >Tzadik > >7. Buckethead >(Colma) > >8. John Lindberg Ensemble > >(Black Saint) > >9. Vibes (Bill Ware et. al) > >(Knitting Factory) > >10. Prajna >Postmodernism >(eclectic) > > Hoo-Ha!!! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: william hooker, lee ranaldo Date: 03 Mar 1998 10:56:27 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Rich Ladew wrote: > is my question: Hooker mentioned a label ,I think it is calles Silkart or > something (from Sweden?) Anyway, the things he was describing sounded > fantastic, and Ive got to find more information. > Thanks for indulging the long message, hooker has 2 records on silkheart. he gave me a copy of the more recent one, which is called _firmament / fury_, but unfortunately i can't remember the title of the first. _firmament_ features, among others, donald miller from borbetomagus on guitar and it's highly recommendable. silkheart has also released great records from the likes of roscoe mitchell, charles gayle, steve lacy, ahmed abdullah, david s. ware and the new horizons ensemble. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: creative music for newbies Date: 03 Mar 1998 10:57:47 -0500 >>>>> "Fran" == Fran Bacon <c123018@hotmail.com> writes: Fran> What (however many, as many as you'd like) particular Fran> records or types of stuff do you think would be thoughtful Fran> and penetrating, yet accessible enough to make the Fran> "uninitiated" (pardon the elitist flare) hungry for more? I've introduced my lifelong companion to many different types of music, and the ones which have been most successful have been those which have a relatively consistent sound throughout. Her taste ran from pop (Celine Dion, Tina Turner) to smooth jazz (Bob James, Joe Sample, Norman Brown) to Enigma, to meditational, and to classical (Mozart, Tchaikovsky). From Enigma it was a small step to world beat (Gipsy Kings, Youssou N'Dour, Sheila Chandra), so that was pretty easy. Enigma and meditational also leads pretty easily to most types of ambient and even some electroacoustic (including Xenakis). The jazz background was also expanded pretty easily, up to (but not including) European free improv, but she likes Frisell and Horvitz a lot. The classical influence shows up in carefully arranged pieces like some of the Filmworks, Redbird, and Bar Kokhba. I've had the least success with genre-hopping and extremely complex noise, and particularly with sudden changes in volume. Mr. Bungle, Ground Zero, and Naked City drive her crazy (except for Absinthe, which she likes). --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FUNKADELlC <FUNKADELlC@aol.com> Subject: Re: bass Date: 03 Mar 1998 11:14:18 EST In a message dated 98-03-03 07:24:26 EST, you write: << Since Cory Sklar mentioned DOS >> hee hee.. thats me... ... anyways.. i have this funny cd by fIREHOSE called BIG BOTTOM POW WOW... its just Mike Watt, Flea, Chris Kirkwood and Les Claypool <via phone> talkin about da bass.. it has a few fIREHOSE songs thrown in here and there.... -corn dog sklar - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman Date: 03 Mar 1998 08:23:50 -0800 On Mon, 02 Mar 1998 21:55:13 +0500 john petrie wrote: > > Marcin, > > you have just discovered possibly the most important post-Parker > saxophonist and composer in the creative music idiom. John Zorn could not > exist without the advances of this man. While many unfortunately labe his ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ There is a large body of Zorn's output that has nothing to do with Coleman. > music as "free jazz" i would strongly disagree. This music was indeed ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Though this applies perfectly to the record FREE JAZZ. I am sometimes wondering if Coleman does not hate this record... Without it, it would have been harder for lazy jazz critics to pigeonhole him so easily. Patrice. > revolutionary when his first records came out (1959 for the great Atlantic > reocrds, '57 for the Contemporary records) and many people thought that it > was indeed formless and that Coleman was a fake. However thirty years late r, > i can't help but think that these people must be very embarrassed. > > anyway the record you bought features his electric group, PrimeTim e. > If you dig Virgin Beauty others to look for are: Body Meta, Tone Dialing a nd > the indispensible In All Languages. > > i highly recommend In All Languages as a great indtroduction to Ornette's > music. It has been recently reissued on cd and features his "original" > quartet in addition to Prime Time. Also after this i would say go ahead an d > fork out the cash for the Beauty is a Rare Thing box set. This is six disc s > of classic jazz. sorry for getting carried away... > > john > > > > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: The Death of the Rare Bird Ymir and FW VIII Date: 03 Mar 1998 08:43:24 -0800 On Tue, 03 Mar 1998 09:18:32 -0500 David Keffer wrote: > > Two things: > > First: "The Death of the Rare Bird Ymir" > Yesterday and today, I've seen a couple people comment very > positively on Hans Reichel's "The Death of the Rare Bird > Ymir". I add my praise to theirs. The Ymir/Bonobo disc is, to > date, the premiere Reichel guitar disc. Hands down. The > original question asked was, if liking other recordings by Reichel, > was Ymir a good buy? The answer is yes. Patrice also mentioned > "Lower Lurum" as a good disc for guitar and daxophone. It's > good but, in terms of essentials, I have a different opinion. > Ymir is Reichel's disc for guitar and "Shanghaied on Tor Road" > is Reichel's incomparable disc for daxophone. (Shanghaied is also > on FMP, maybe 1992.) "Lower Lurum" doesn't compare to "Shanghaied" > in terms of absolute daxophone magnificence. On "Lower Lurum" the > daxophone has a muted presence beside the guitar. On "Shanghaied", > the daxophone appears unconstrained and roaring. "Shanghaied on Tor > Road" is the single-most alien-to-this-planet music (not noise) > that I have heard. I have to acknowledge that I don't know SHANGHAIED ON TOR ROAD. I can swear that this is a blunder that I will fix RIGHT NOW!!! Thanks for the advice (you description of it makes water dripping from my mouth :-). > Second: > People have been going crazy about FW VIII and I can't believe > people are saying it's the best FW he's ever put out. My point > of view is this. If you listen to a soundtrack like that on FW III with > Ribot and Zorn doing sax/guitar duets, you think, not only is this > damn fantastic but only Zorn would have composed it. When you > listen to "Port of Last Resort", I kept thinking that I had heard > those tracks before. In fact, I started humming the words to a > song every time I heard the second track, "Shanghai". > I wasn't going to mention this, but having read this on the list, On this topic, I would say that I like FW VIII as much as the Masada's... Everything is perfect but I can't prevent a yawn after 5mn (although this does not really apply to LATIN BOYS GO TO HELL). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glenn Astarita <gastarit@comm.net> Subject: RE: The Death of the Rare Bird Ymir and FW VIII Date: 03 Mar 1998 11:28:13 -0600 On this topic, I would say that I like FW VIII as much as the=20 Masada's... Everything is perfect but I can't prevent a yawn after 5mn (although this does not really apply to LATIN BOYS GO TO HELL). Patrice. - After several minutes of the percussion movement I was tempted to hit = the "stop" button on ye olde cd player. It doesn't go anywhere = (IMO)..otherwise a 4 star outing for the band ! glenn - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice <gda@pingnet.li> Subject: "new music from the usa" Date: 03 Mar 1998 19:08:38 +0000 hi y'all... the following might be of interest to all zornsters living in and around zurich/switzerland. from march 20 to 22 there's a weekend of "new music from the usa" happening at the "tonhalle". saturday, march 21 is dedicated to the "new york underground" (that's what they're calling it). the "ensemble collegium novum zurich" performs works by mark dresser, george e. lewis, john zorn double bass & musical supervisor: mark dresser flutes: matthias ziegler i hope i can make it. if i can, i will most definitely let you all know how it was. other days: friday: works by steve reich, john adams; piano: peter waters saturday (afternoon): open forum with mark dresser & george e. lewis sunday: works by roberto sierra, james primosch, kenji bunch, bright sheng, miguel del aguila; ensemble collegium novum zurich patRice - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice <gda@pingnet.li> Subject: Re: FW VIII Date: 03 Mar 1998 19:09:20 +0000 David Keffer wrote: > > but whose going to say Zorn's best FW is all percussion? > hey! why not!?!? i'm personally quite amazed at what they've come up with on "latin boys..."! let me add that thanks to all of you who have written in favour of FW VIII i went out and bought it. and i love it! great stuff! reminded me also why i love mr. ribot on guitar so much! patRice - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice <gda@pingnet.li> Subject: Re: The Death of the Rare Bird Ymir and FW VIII Date: 03 Mar 1998 19:12:25 +0000 i can imagine the "latin boys..." stuff working very well in a kitsch gay porn movie. and that's what it was supposed to do, wasn't it?! (even though the director didn't use all of it... i guess she just wasn't daring enough.) patRice Glenn Astarita wrote: > > After several minutes of the percussion movement I was tempted to hit the "stop" button on ye olde cd player. It doesn't go anywhere (IMO)..otherwise a 4 star outing for the band ! > > glenn > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rusty Crump <dmcrump@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu> Subject: Re: bass Date: 03 Mar 1998 12:32:26 -0600 >In a message dated 98-03-03 07:24:26 EST, you write: > ><< Since Cory Sklar mentioned DOS >> > >hee hee.. thats me... ... anyways.. i have this funny cd by fIREHOSE called >BIG BOTTOM POW WOW... its just Mike Watt, Flea, Chris Kirkwood and Les >Claypool <via phone> talkin about da bass.. it has a few fIREHOSE songs thrown >in here and there.... >-corn dog sklar > >- Well, from that description, it sounds tedious at best, worthless at worst. Rusty Crump Oxford, Mississippi - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john shiurba <shiurba@sfo.com> Subject: Re: Sun Ra Date: 03 Mar 1998 10:54:58 -0700 > David Thiel mentioned a book on Ra. Does it have a decent > discography? I am thoroughly baffled by the session details and the > conflicting sleeve notes on the Evidence reissues ... for instance, there is a decent discography in the appendix of "Space is the Place" It was compiled by Robert Campbell, who has published the definitive Sun Ra discography ("The Earthly Recordings of Sun Ra" available through Cadence), with complete session details, info on equivalent issues of the same music, etc. -- shiurba@sfo.com http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john <jpetrie@mail.vt.edu> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #252 Date: 03 Mar 1998 13:57:45 +0500 >On Mon, 02 Mar 1998 21:55:13 +0500 john petrie wrote: >> >> Marcin, >> >> you have just discovered possibly the most important post-Parker >> saxophonist and composer in the creative music idiom. John Zorn could not >> exist without the advances of this man. While many unfortunately label his > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >There is a large body of Zorn's output that has nothing to do with Coleman. ok, my bad, without Coleman, there would be no Masada, Spy vs. Spy or maybe "jazz style" stuff that Zorn does. > >> music as "free jazz" i would strongly disagree. This music was indeed > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ >Though this applies perfectly to the record FREE JAZZ. this appiles to the title of the album, but certainly not the music. anyone who has ever listened to this record would realize that they is most definitely a form and even a few written out sections in between the improvisations. but don't take my word for it, sit down with this album and listen. it's pretty good... john - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: free jazz and _Free Jazz_ Date: 03 Mar 1998 14:07:08 -0500 (EST) On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, john wrote: > this appiles to the title of the album, but certainly not the music. anyone > who has ever listened to this record would realize that they is most > definitely a form and even a few written out sections in between the > improvisations. As would anyone who's ever listened to the music of, say, Albert Ayler. It's funny how there's a tendency to talk about classic American free jazz as if it sounded like purist Derek Bailey-style British improv. Most of the (pre-AACM) 60's stuff I know has clear themes, a steady pulse, and a clear distinction between soloist and ensemble, just like _Free Jazz_. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman Date: 03 Mar 1998 14:15:36 -0500 (EST) On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Joseph S. Zitt wrote: > I was disappointed by "Tone Dialing". It's missing the clarity of earlier > Prime Time, being overloaded with rappers, keyboards, and other bells and > whistles that distract from the focus without integrating as well into the > ensemble work. I agree the rappers are a failed experiment (and not a terribly interesting one at this late date). But the cluttered (but not abrasive) arrangements over clear and danceable beats are precisely what I love about _Tone Dialing_ and _Virgin Beauty_. Although Ornette still dominates, it seems to me that this gets closer to the harmolodic ideal of equality of musical elements than some of the earlier Prime Time dates. I'd still take _Dancing in Your Head_ and _Body Meta_ over these discs, but that just proves I'm not all that harmolodic a guy. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: _Shanghaied on Tor Road_ Date: 03 Mar 1998 14:20:33 -0500 (EST) On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, David Keffer wrote: > On "Shanghaied", > the daxophone appears unconstrained and roaring. "Shanghaied on Tor > Road" is the single-most alien-to-this-planet music (not noise) > that I have heard. I'll second the recommendation for this record, but disagree with this characterization. What I find so incredibly eerie about it is how utterly human are the sounds Reichel coaxes out of those funny pieces of wood. The first time I played this record I was convinced that it included vocal overdubs. Of course, maybe the sound of wood talking is what David means by "alien". Brrrr. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chad edwards <chadhead@rocketmail.com> Subject: Big Gun Down. Date: 03 Mar 1998 11:46:16 -0800 (PST) Can someone describe THE BIG GUN DOWN to me? Is it really part of the filmworks collection? Is it on the Tzadik label? It doesn't have any spaghetti western covers on it, does it? Blessings, Chad. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Big Gun Down. Date: 03 Mar 1998 14:56:53 -0500 >>>>> "Chad" == chad edwards <chadhead@rocketmail.com> writes: Chad> Can someone describe THE BIG GUN DOWN to me? Is it really Chad> part of the filmworks collection? No. Chad> Is it on the Tzadik label? No, Nonesuch. Chad> It doesn't have any spaghetti western covers on it, does it? Perhaps it does. It's all Morricone music, and the track listing at http://www.nwu.edu/wnur/jazz/artists/zorn.john/discog.html mentions Big Gundown and Once Upon a Time in the West. It's among Zorn's earliest efforts at covers and extremely varied groupings of musicians (even Diamanda Galas!). Classic Zorn; you can read the liner notes at http://mars.superlink.net/marko/jz.html. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: "new music from the usa" Date: 03 Mar 1998 15:13:52 -0600 (CST) On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, patRice wrote: > the "ensemble collegium novum zurich" > performs works by mark dresser, george e. lewis, john zorn Do you know which Zorn they'll be doing? - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Doug McKay" <mckay003@maroon.tc.umn.edu> Subject: Re: Big Gun Down. Date: 03 Mar 1998 15:40:01 I don't have the CD yet. It's on order. But, I can tell you this... The title is the title of a Spaghetti Western from 1966. The book "Spaghetti Westerns - the Good, the Bad and the Violent: 558 Eurowesterns and Their Personnel, 1961-1977" by Thomas Weisser says about it: "This is one of the best non-Leone Westerns, and certainly Lee Van Cleef's most memorable role. He plays Texas lawman Jonathan Corbett, who accepts the job of tracking down Cuchillo (Tomas Milian), a Mexican bandit accused of raping and murdering a little girl. "The search is long and hard. And it eventually takes Corbett into Mexico, where he reunites with his employer, the senator (Walter Barnes), and his henchmen. These men turn the pursuit into a cold-blooded "sport hunt" complete with dogs and high-powered weapons, but Corbett begins to realize the truth. He has been duped by these dangerous men. Cuchillo is actually innocent; framed. And Corbett decides to help him. "The "hunt in the cane field" is among the greatest ten minutes ever put on film, comparable to the "Ecstasy of Gold" sequence in THE GOOD, THE BAD, AND THE UGLY and the "Only at the Point of Death" scene in ONCE UPON THE TIME IN THE WEST. Its director Sergio Sollima's most memorable achievement. Plus there's an amazing musical score composed by Ennio Morricone, conducted by Bruno Nicolai. Sergio Sollima also directed a sequel called RUN MAN, RUN starring Tomas Milian, but not Lee Van Cleef." [page 31-32] Doug McKay Old West Society of Minnesota. NRA Life "In Minnesota" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #252 Date: 03 Mar 1998 13:29:44 -0800 On Tue, 03 Mar 1998 13:57:45 +0500 john wrote: > > > >On Mon, 02 Mar 1998 21:55:13 +0500 john petrie wrote: > >> > >> Marcin, > >> > >> you have just discovered possibly the most important post-Parker > >> saxophonist and composer in the creative music idiom. John Zorn could not > >> exist without the advances of this man. While many unfortunately label his > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > > > >There is a large body of Zorn's output that has nothing to do with Coleman. > > ok, my bad, without Coleman, there would be no Masada, Spy vs. Spy or maybe Which is why I say "large body", instead of "everything". Also, because my interest in Zorn comes well before the existence of Masada, I am more sensitive to the influence of contemporary composers (such as Kagel). I don't think that there is any sign of Coleman's influence on anything that Zorn recorded before 1988. > "jazz style" stuff that Zorn does. ^^^^^^^^^^ Most of the jazz stuff from Zorn predates Coleman (Sonny Clark, Hank Mobley, Kenny Dorham, etc). > > > >> music as "free jazz" i would strongly disagree. This music was indeed > > ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ > >Though this applies perfectly to the record FREE JAZZ. > > this appiles to the title of the album, but certainly not the music. anyone > who has ever listened to this record would realize that they is most > definitely a form and even a few written out sections in between the > improvisations. but don't take my word for it, sit down with this album and > listen. it's pretty good... I know the record (I even have the LP copy with the color painting). The music in FREE JAZZ is really what gave free jazz its reputation among many music reviewers. And, indirectly, its reputation of being notes played at random :-). It is easy, 40 years after, to ignore the impact of FREE JAZZ. Yes, now, it looks very melodic and we can make fun at people who did not get it at that time. Anyway, I still think that FREE JAZZ is definitely out compared to his other late 50's records (which are mostly melodic). FREE JAZZ was a big step in the wild, and Coleman had the guts to do it. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re[2]: _Shanghaied on Tor Road_ Date: 03 Mar 1998 21:44:51 UT I'm confused. How did this thread start and what exactly is a daxophone? ____________________Reply Separator____________________ Author: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, David Keffer wrote: > On "Shanghaied", > the daxophone appears unconstrained and roaring. "Shanghaied on Tor > Road" is the single-most alien-to-this-planet music (not noise) > that I have heard. I'll second the recommendation for this record, but disagree with this characterization. What I find so incredibly eerie about it is how utterly human are the sounds Reichel coaxes out of those funny pieces of wood. The first time I played this record I was convinced that it included vocal overdubs. Of course, maybe the sound of wood talking is what David means by "alien". Brrrr. Chris Hamilton - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tag Yr It <TagYrIt@aol.com> Subject: Re: Ornette Date: 03 Mar 1998 17:18:54 EST Addressing these comments: > "tone dialing" and "in all languages" are MUST HAVES for any person who > genuinely appreciates music on any level. . and - jesus, are you saying that "tone dialing" is the 'good shit'? compared to "tsojtc" & "free jazz"? get ahold of yourself, man. My sentiments exactly....As much as I love most of Ornette's work, he's got one weird self-indulgent streak in him, and Tone Dialing sure showcases that part of him. Its little more than bad disco. That's my 2 cents on this. Dale. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JRZ <zube@winternet.com> Subject: Re: Big Gun Down. - Spaghetti Westerns Date: 03 Mar 1998 16:33:25 -0600 At 03:40 PM 3/3/98, Doug McKay wrote: > >"The "hunt in the cane field" is among the greatest ten minutes ever put on >film, comparable to the "Ecstasy of Gold" sequence in THE GOOD, THE BAD, >AND THE UGLY and the "Only at the Point of Death" scene in ONCE UPON THE >TIME IN THE WEST. Its director Sergio Sollima's most memorable achievement. >Plus there's an amazing musical score composed by Ennio Morricone, >conducted by Bruno Nicolai. Sergio Sollima also directed a sequel called >RUN MAN, RUN starring Tomas Milian, but not Lee Van Cleef." [page 31-32] > What scene from "The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly" is the "Ecstasy of Gold"? Is it the final shootout in the cemetary? This is one of my favorite movies but I'm not sure which scene you're talking about. Another thing, is "Two Mules for Sister Sara" a Leone film? I always thought it was a part of the "Fistful of Dollars" sequence. I just checked a Sergio Leone site and it doesn't list it among his films. I'm not to disappointed, "Two Mules for Sister Sara" is pretty weak compared to the other three in the series. Can anyone recommend some other Spaghetti Westerns? It's been a while since I've seen any of em, my curiousity has just been stirred up. anyway, zube (young america at it's best) my tapelist http://www.winternet.com/~zube/tapelist.htm I am not only prepared to retract the above statements but to deny under oath that I ever made them - Tom Lehrer - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Macrobiotic Westerns Date: 03 Mar 1998 14:32:35 -0800 >Can anyone recommend some other Spaghetti Westerns? It's been a while since >I've seen any of em, my curiousity has just been stirred up. Well, no...but I highly recommend the excellent Macrobiotic Western, DEAD MAN by Jim Jarmusch. keith - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Big Gun Down Date: 04 Mar 1998 10:09:17 +1100 For anyone who doesn't know, The Big Gundown is mostly made up of Zorn's reinterpretations of Morricone's music, plus one track that he wrote himself that fit into the mood of the others. The reason some people call it an honourary member of the Filmworks series (Filmworks 0) is that it is the work that got people interested in Zorn as a film composer. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Big Gun Down Date: 03 Mar 1998 15:30:41 -0800 On Wed, 4 Mar 1998 10:09:17 +1100 "Julian" wrote: > > For anyone who doesn't know, The Big Gundown is mostly made up of Zorn's > reinterpretations of Morricone's music, plus one track that he wrote > himself that fit into the mood of the others. The reason some people call > it an honourary member of the Filmworks series (Filmworks 0) is that it is > the work that got people interested in Zorn as a film composer. Although it was never written as music for movies. For me THE BIG GUNDOWN is more part of his cover records (LULU, SPY VS SPY, etc). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: FMP recs? Date: 03 Mar 1998 18:51:03 -0500 With all of this talk about Hans Reichel, I have to ask - what FMP discs do you guys like the best?? Looking through the website at http://www.wam.umd.edu/~losinp/music/fmp.html I've found a lot that interests me. I'm particularly interested in hearing about the discs by Africa Djole, Frith/Reichel/Uchihashi, Kowald/L=FCdi/Morris/Namtchylak, Trio De Clarinettes Live, etc... Let me know what you like best because I only have a few of them. Thanks! -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Re: Robert Rodriguez Date: 03 Mar 1998 18:28:17 -0600 It's just one disc right? I got the Burt Bacharach one and I was curious about this one. I have never heard of Serge Gainsbourg before. Is this one similar to the Bacharach one just better or is it completely different? Any thoughts about it... At 4:05 PM -0600 2/10/98, Gabriel Lichtmann wrote: > I just bought Tzadik's "Great Jewish Music: Serge Gainsbourg". It's a >wonderful record , I think I like it better than the Burt Bacharach one; >what I wanted to find out is if anyone knows if the Robert Rodriguez who >plays drums on the track "Un poison violent, c'est ca l'amour" is the >filmmaker. Sorry, I've never heard of Robert Rodriguez.... heh. Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: more crazy bass music Date: 03 Mar 1998 19:03:13 -0500 I just discovered something that really peaked my interest and is relevant to our recent discussion of double bass music. There is a recently released disc on the Swiss For 4 Ears label (run by Gunter Muller) by the Ensemble Sondarc called 'For Four Rooms' (For 4 Ears CD823). The group consists of only six double bassists. I don't know anything else about it but it interested me enough that I think I'll order it soon. I discovered this at http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/labels/for4ears/for4823.html so look there if you want. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nils Jacobson <JACOBSON@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu> Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman Date: 03 Mar 1998 20:07:42 +0100 john petrie <jpetrie@vt.edu> wrote: > i highly recommend In All Languages as a great indtroduction to Ornette's > music. It has been recently reissued on cd and features his "original" > quartet in addition to Prime Time. Also after this i would say go ahead and > fork out the cash for the Beauty is a Rare Thing box set. This is six discs > of classic jazz. sorry for getting carried away... I know other people have recommended In All Languages, but I don't think it's the place to start. The problem is, it's a very self-conscious recording. On IAL, you have the classic Quartet from 1959 and Prime Time from the 70's. They have different repertoires, but on this one they share tunes. That is, the Quartet plays Prime Time tunes and vice versa. (As well as their own.) You have to be very tolerant of the rhythmically-confined structures of Prime Time to enjoy this album. While it's interesting to hear the Quartet play Prime Time tunes, I don't think it's what they do best, and it is certainly bound to be confusing to a newbie. (Plus, it takes a special appreciation of percussion to enjoy Denardo Coleman on drums, IMHO. I know other people disagree, but he has this very repetitive sort of on-the-beat thing going on, sort of like Shannon Jackson, but much less effective.) The purist in me shouts out: you need to start with The Shape of Jazz To Come. It really is much simpler and cleaner. The box set, btw, is brilliant. Fantastic. Amazing. Genius. -Nils - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Robert Rodriguez/Serge Gainsbourg Date: 04 Mar 1998 12:07:38 +1100 > It's just one disc right? I got the Burt Bacharach one and I was curious > about this one. I have never heard of Serge Gainsbourg before. Is this > one similar to the Bacharach one just better or is it completely different? > Any thoughts about it... Firstly, it is just one disc, but has a lot of material on that disc. I wouldn't say it is very similar to the Bacharach one. It's not better, it has a different overall feel to it. The Bacharach one I think had a few more "original" (not necessarily making them any better) ideas for example Marc Ribot's solo guitar arrangement of Don't Go Breaking My Heart, Joey Baron's solo drum Alfie and Dave Douglas' jazz version of Wives And Lovers. It seems on the Gainsbourg one that they got so carried away with the great pop songs and French lyrics that many of them remain pretty much like the original. John Zorn's Contact is great for a few listens, as is the Ruins doing their usual with a song whose name escapes me. The nicest surprise on the disc for me is David Shea's techno-ish (well I don't know what to call it) version of Initials BB. Fred Frith and Mike Patton do good work here too. Both albums are great, you can't really say either is significantly better than the other, but of course everyone will have their opinions, which can be inserted below in an orderly fashion... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com> Subject: Re: FMP recs? Date: 03 Mar 1998 17:09:28 -0800 (PST) On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Tom Pratt wrote: > With all of this talk about Hans Reichel, I have to ask - what FMP discs > do you guys like the best?? Peter Kowald "Duos" The Peter Broetzmann Octet 1966 "Machine Gun" hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: FMP recs? Date: 03 Mar 1998 17:19:57 -0800 On Tue, 03 Mar 1998 18:51:03 -0500 Tom Pratt wrote: > > With all of this talk about Hans Reichel, I have to ask - what FMP discs > do you guys like the best?? Looking through the website at > http://www.wam.umd.edu/~losinp/music/fmp.html I've found a lot that > interests me. I'm particularly interested in hearing about the discs by > Africa Djole, Frith/Reichel/Uchihashi, Kowald/Lⁿdi/Morris/Namtchylak, > Trio De Clarinettes Live, etc... Let me know what you like best because > I only have a few of them. Thanks! My top favorites: MACHINE GUN: Peter Brotzmann Octet (pre-requisite for the Zorn list :-) N'TANGO FUR GITTI: Ulrich Gumpert (astounding Ernst Ludwig Petrowski on cl) LIVE IN WUPPERTAL: Globe Unity (fantastic compositions and playing!) THE DEATH AND ...: Hans Reichel (we already know why) Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: more crazy bass music Date: 03 Mar 1998 17:22:29 -0800 On Tue, 03 Mar 1998 19:03:13 -0500 Tom Pratt wrote: > > I just discovered something that really peaked my interest and is > relevant to our recent discussion of double bass music. There is a > recently released disc on the Swiss For 4 Ears label (run by Gunter > Muller) by the Ensemble Sondarc called 'For Four Rooms' (For 4 Ears > CD823). The group consists of only six double bassists. I don't know > anything else about it but it interested me enough that I think I'll > order it soon. In the '80s, there was also a double bass big band in France... I guessed it had the same success as Marais'big band of guitars... Patrice (still waiting for a big band of didjeridus backed up by theremin and Tuva singers). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nils Jacobson <JACOBSON@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu> Subject: Re: FMP recs? Date: 03 Mar 1998 20:31:22 +0100 Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> wrote: > With all of this talk about Hans Reichel, I have to ask - what FMP discs > do you guys like the best?? Looking through the website at > http://www.wam.umd.edu/~losinp/music/fmp.html I've found a lot that > interests me. I'm particularly interested in hearing about the discs by > Africa Djole, Frith/Reichel/Uchihashi, Kowald/L=FCdi/Morris/Namtchylak, > Trio De Clarinettes Live, etc... Let me know what you like best because > I only have a few of them. Thanks! I would recommend these four CDs: FMP CD24 Peter Brotzmann Octet (incl. Brotzmann, Parker, Kowald, Bennink, etc.) Machine Gun (1968) Power, dissonance, intensity. Amazing 'anti-jazz.' FMP CD27 Schlippenbach Trio (Evan Parker, A. von Schlippenbach, Paul Lovens) Elf Bagatellent (1990) Nice exploration of subtleties. Sparkly, fresh. FMP CD48 Charles Gayle/William Parker/Rashied Ali Touchin on Trane (1991) Intense, lyrical, interactive. A really nice disc. FMP CD81 Matthew Shipp Before the World (1995) Solo Shipp. Can't get enough of this guy. Ideas galore. A cool abstract vision of structure. Enjoy. -Nils - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian Olewnick <olewnik@IDT.NET> Subject: Re: FW VIII Date: 03 Mar 1998 20:24:58 -0800 David Keffer wrote: > Second: > People have been going crazy about FW VIII and I can't believe > people are saying it's the best FW he's ever put out. My point > of view is this. If you listen to a soundtrack like that on FW III with > Ribot and Zorn doing sax/guitar duets, you think, not only is this > damn fantastic but only Zorn would have composed it. When you > listen to "Port of Last Resort", I kept thinking that I had heard > those tracks before. In fact, I started humming the words to a > song every time I heard the second track, "Shanghai". > I wasn't going to mention this, but having read this on the list, > > >Brian Olewnick wrote: > >As impressed as I am by JZ's > >compositional skills, I'd still be amazed if the section titled > >'Shanghai' was not derived, at least partially, from some pre-existing > >Chinese folk song. > > I will. You can sing the American folk song, "She'll be coming > around the mountain when she comes" to Track 2, ("Shanghai" I think). > That's right, get out your disc and sing along. I myself don't think > that this is anywhere close to the strongest FW output. Music very > similar to the song "Ruan", of which there are three versions on > FW VIII, has appeared, I think, in soundtracks to about 20 Chinese movies. > It may be nice but it lacks Zorn's signature; anybody could have composed > it (and some people already have, or variations thereof). > > Not to be totally down on the disc, "Latin Boys go to Hell" is pretty good, > but whose going to say Zorn's best FW is all percussion? > > As always, these preposterous opinions are provided gratis by David K. David (+ others who pointed out the similarity), In one sense, I'm a little abashed that I didn't notice the similarity (and that's all I think it is; see below) but, then again, I'm now pissed that I'll never be able to listen to the damn piece again without thinking of that bit of Americana. Thanks a lot, guys. The eleven note lead might be rhythmically pretty similar to the folk song (don't know about you all, but on those occasions when I sing it--mercifully few and far between--, I hold the "-ing" syllable longer than JZ holds the comparable note) and the general melodic outline isn't too different, but I'd bet it wasn't a conscious decision. My guess is the link (maybe provided by Min Xiao-Fen) is with Revolutionary-era Chinese songs which, in turn, were influenced by European worker songs and folk songs, which perhaps leads us roundabout to "She'll be Coming...". Many songs from that period bear strong similarities to various Western folk forms (check out the one David Shea utilizes near the beginning of 'Hsi-Yu Chi'). But, hey, maybe your right and it's a (possibly subconscious) reworking of the folk song. So what? It's a gorgeous piece. If 'Ruan' is a clone of some Chinese film scores, who cares? I could care less about how 'original' Zorn's being; I'm interested in hearing beautiful music. Personally, I've been very heartened by Zorn's work in recent years, from which I get a sense of maturity and depth in even his most radical pieces (like 'Zohar' or the water and fire pieces from Filmworks...I forget the number), not to mention his increasing love of 'traditionally' beautiful melody in Masada, much of the Filmworks series and in wonderful work like 'Duras' and (a recent fave) the 'Aliya' section of 'Angelus Novus'. Post-modern irony was well and good for a time and a necessary tonic (it'll surely be needed again), but I find that I weary a bit of the cut-up pieces and I'm not as impressed with work like 'For Your Eyes Only' and 'Carny' (for all their virtuosity and skill needed to perform them) as I'm sure I would've been ten years ago. His recent free improv work (with Bailey this past summer, eg) also strikes me as deeper, more considered, more interested in getting at the truth of the moment than in the past. Along with a handful of composers like Braxton, Yoshihide, O'Rourke, and Stone, I think we're in for a great ride with Mr. Zorn. Just yet another guy's preposterous opinions, Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Benton <rancor@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu> Subject: Re: Filmworks VIII Date: 03 Mar 1998 19:52:30 -0600 (CST) >> Seconded and then some; a beautiful record. As impressed as I am by >> JZ's compositional skills, I'd still be amazed if the section titled >> 'Shanghai' was not derived, at least partially, from some pre-existing >> Chinese folk song. Does anyone know about this? If he wrote this from >> scratch, my hat's in doffing mode in perpetuity. > >Actually, if you shift a fairly small number of notes around, it's >"She'll Be Comin' Round the Mountain". 1/2-) Am I the only person who's noticed that the entire bridge of 'Maskil' (one of the Ribot/Cohen duets on Bar Kokhba) is straight from 'Sunrise, Sunset' from "Fiddler on the Roof?" It's almost too long a phrase for me to think it's pure coincidence; I'm starting to be of the opinion that JZ is having some fun with us... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Re[2]: _Shanghaied on Tor Road_ Date: 03 Mar 1998 21:01:50 -0500 (EST) On Tue, 3 Mar 1998 peter_risser@cinfin.com wrote: > How did this thread start and what exactly is a daxophone? 1) Someone asked about a Hans Reichel record. Not exactly on topic for this list, but when has that stopped us? 2) An instrument invented by Hans Reichel. I've only seen them in photographs, but I gather that they're essentially long, narrow, flat pieces of wood of various shapes. They're played (mostly) with a bow. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tosh@loop.com (Tosh) Subject: Re: Robert Rodriguez/Serge Gainsbourg Date: 03 Mar 1998 18:05:09 -0800 (PST) The Gainsbourg collection is great! It is quite 'respectful' to the great songwriter and personality. The whole cd flows nicely. Get it! ----------------- Tosh Berman TamTam Books ---------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #252 Date: 03 Mar 1998 21:09:59 -0500 (EST) On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > I don't think that there is any sign of Coleman's influence on > anything that Zorn recorded before 1988. > > > "jazz style" stuff that Zorn does. > ^^^^^^^^^^ > > Most of the jazz stuff from Zorn predates Coleman (Sonny Clark, Hank Mobley, > Kenny Dorham, etc). Sure, but Zorn never sounded all that much like Hank Mobley on sax. Dolphy, Mitchell, and (I expect) Braxton may have been more dominant influences on Zorn's earlier "jazz" playing, but I'd say Coleman's been an influence all along. He's certainly become a more dominant one in recent years. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David J. Keffer" <keffer@shell.planetc.com> Subject: daxophone Date: 03 Mar 1998 22:32:27 -0500 >From: peter_risser@cinfin.com >Subject: Re[2]: _Shanghaied on Tor Road_ > >I'm confused. >How did this thread start and what exactly is a daxophone? > This thread got started with a question about Hans Reichel, a German inventor, musician, and type-face designer, among other things. He's been releasing records for 25 years or more, mostly on the Berlin label FMP, Free Music Productions. He has some duo records out with Fred Frith and Tom Cora, a new (1997) duo with a percussionist, E.ROC, called "The Return of Onskel Boskopp", and about a dozen or so solo records. I think that Reichel first rose to (relative) prominence because he built all the guitars he played and built them so that they could be played both in front of the bridge (as is usual) and behind. What this allows for is overtones generated by two different lengths of string vibrating on either side of the bridge. About ten years ago, he started making records with an instrument of his own construction, which he called the dachsophone and which became the daxophone. As to what it is, it's better to listen first to a piece by the daxophone before seeing what it is. The first time I heard it on a seven inch, I swore it was some kind of contorted wind instrument. It is not, nothing like that. But if you want to know the construction of the daxophone, there are some nice pictures and a brief description at http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/idax.html and a little bio on Reichel at http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/mreichel.html The latter site has 2 video clips, one with him on guitar and the other with him on solo daxophone. I also have a little web site, with an interactive daxophone, featuring sounds from daxophones that I have built. For the curious, it's at http://www.planetc.com/users/keffer/dax/text/daxmain.html You need Netscape 3.0 or greater to view it (frame-capable and java script enabled browser necessary). Warning: it was recorded on a $2.00 microphone. David K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrick Stockton" <sheepherder@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman Date: 03 Mar 1998 22:11:50 -0800 okay... i never intended to spawn a huge discussion on the relative merits of different coleman works. i was simply trying to inform people that Ornette has made some good music since TSOJTC and Free Jazz. I owned and listened to much Ornette...but over the years my musical tastes have evolved or changed whatever.... a respected friend recommended In All Languages and i picked it up. i was very elated to find that i re-discovered Ornette in a new light. Then i got tone Dialing and found it to be somewhat outside of my appreciation throughout some of the disc... but there was much that was "fresh" concerning Ornette. that fact that i am not that a very big Ornette Coleman fan probably makes me appreciate TSOJTC and Free Jazz as important works of art yet still enjoy hearing ToneDialing more than the infamous double quartet. even though i understand that Tone dialing does not have a large influence on jazz history or future for that matter, unlike the "popular works", i think they are indispensable for the ornette fan, and of much interest to the music connoisseur. sorry if i offended anyone... i just assumed everyone on this list had experienced and understood the earlier works and that they might not know that he had other worthwhile projects patrick in portland - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leon lee <llee15@ccsf.cc.ca.us> Subject: Rovate Date: 03 Mar 1998 22:36:12 -0800 (PST) hi everyone, just an announcement from the bay area: Rovate: an Improvisers Festival Fri & Sat. April 3&4 friday: John Schott's Diglossia Ensemble (featuring the likes of Ben Goldberg) What We Live (Lisle Ellis, Donald Robinson, Larry Ochs) w/ special guest Wadada Leo Smith ROVA SAX QUARTET premiering pieces by Wadada Leo Smith & John Schott saturday: Actual Size (George Cremaschi, Garth Powell, Bruce Ackley) + Jon Raskin Tiny Bell Trio (nyc) (dave douglas, jim black, brad shepik) ROVA premiering pieces by George Lewis and Larry Ochs $15/show $25/both shows @ ODC Theatre 415-863-9833 I'm very happy about this. What WE Live + W.L.Smith and Tiny Bell Trio --nice. disclaimer:it's all blue. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Filmworks VIII Date: 04 Mar 1998 19:15:00 +1100 > Am I the only person who's noticed that the entire bridge of 'Maskil' (one > of the Ribot/Cohen duets on Bar Kokhba) is straight from 'Sunrise, Sunset' > from "Fiddler on the Roof?" It's almost too long a phrase for me to think > it's pure coincidence; I'm starting to be of the opinion that JZ is having > some fun with us... Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if you could find pieces that matched most of the Masada/Bar Kokhba tunes. They mostly have very simple chord structures, and there's nothing too spectacular about the chords in the bridge of Maskil. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be> Subject: Re: Filmworks VIII Date: 04 Mar 1998 10:04:50 +0100 > Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if you could find pieces that matched most of > the Masada/Bar Kokhba tunes. They mostly have very simple chord structures, > and there's nothing too spectacular about the chords in the bridge of > Maskil. The first tune on CD 1 of Bar Kokhba (Gevurah) actually sounds as a clone of Misirlou by Dick Dale (of Pulp Fiction-Fame) YVes - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Filmworks VIII Date: 04 Mar 1998 20:09:45 +1100 > The first tune on CD 1 of Bar Kokhba (Gevurah) actually sounds as > a clone of Misirlou by Dick Dale (of Pulp Fiction-Fame) A while ago I borrowed a CD of his off a friend and I've got to say I was extremely unimpressed to find that half of the songs or more had that very same chord structure (unimaginative switching between E and F), and the other half were very dull attempts at 12 bar blues. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice <gda@pingnet.li> Subject: Re: "new music from the usa" Date: 04 Mar 1998 10:33:24 +0000 no. in the ads i've seen in the papers it doesnt' say what pieces will be performed. but i'll let you know as soon as i've found out more... patRice Joseph S. Zitt wrote: > > On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, patRice wrote: > > > the "ensemble collegium novum zurich" > > performs works by mark dresser, george e. lewis, john zorn > > Do you know which Zorn they'll be doing? > - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- > |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| > ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| > |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: The Big Gundown Date: 04 Mar 1998 09:27:29 GMT0BST The Big Gundown finishes with a nice arrangemnt of the big electric guitar theme for Once Upon a Time In The West, (Robert Quine is one of the guitarists) which is also a MUST SEE spaghetti western. It's a film with a slow pace, which seems natural after the incredible opening sequence, and makes the dialogue seem more poignant, as though everyone were choosing their words carefully. In a touch of genius, Leone cast Henry Fonda as the cold blooded killer for the big business interests. The scenes are often balletic (?!) and I believe some of them were filmed with the music playing to cue the action ... rather than it being added to fit the film. The Zorn album I find patchy in places: but it has other inspired pieces; the opening music for The Battle of Algiers, and a fabulous piece with Big John Patton on organ (but playing in a style we'd never heard from him before) and both "sexy Italian" and erotic groaning vocals. Sean W - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J.T. de Boer" <s0821683@let.rug.nl> Subject: Dave Douglas' Sanctuary Date: 04 Mar 1998 11:42:47 +0100 Hi, I'm new on the list, so maybe you've talked about this album already. Anyway, can someone tell me what it's like? Thanks, Jeroen de Boer - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "R. Lynn Rardin" <RARDIN%ORION@BINAH.CC.BRANDEIS.EDU> Subject: Re: FMP recs? Date: 04 Mar 1998 07:49:59 -0500 (EST) Tom Pratt wrote: > With all of this talk about Hans Reichel, I have to ask - what FMP > discs do you guys like the best?? Geez, there are so many to choose from! :^) I'll mention one that I haven't seen on others' lists, but there are many others: Marilyn Crispell & Irene Schweizer: Overlapping Hands: Eight Segments (1990; FMP CD 30) This is a live performance by two masterful pianists. Crispell and Schweizer work together amazingly well, yet have very distinctive sounds. I can't recommend Schweizer highly enough. Everything I've heard by Schweizer is pretty damn good to amazing and I'm constantly on the lookout for more (mostly on Intakt,though, not FMP). -Lynn - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: FMP recs? Date: 04 Mar 1998 09:06:38 -0500 >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> writes: Tom> what FMP discs do you guys like the best?? In addition to Machine Gun (which really is essential), I'd also recommend most highly FMP 49, King Ubu (both u's with umlauts) Orchestra, Binaurality. This is one of those textural albums where you wonder what instrument could possibly be making the sounds you hear. Georg Katzer plays computer and electronics, and he has a long background in electroacoustic music, including some pieces on ReR. Peter Van Bergen is one of my favorite noisy sax players, noisy in the sense that you wonder how a sax can make those sounds. Phil Wachsmann is well known in the field of electroacoustic improvisation, especially with the recent releases on Gushwachs and the Parker Electroacoustic Ensemble. A stellar release all the way around, recommended to everyone who liked Archery, Gushwachs, or the new Parker. I'd also recommend Die Like a Dog (FMP 64), which by a pleasant coincidence was in the CD player on the way to work this morning. Brotzmann, William Parker, and Hamid Drake are excellent as always, but the clincher for me is Toshinori Kondo on trumpet and electronics. I'm not always a huge fan of acoustic free jazz, and I very much appreciate the strangeness that can be introduced by some form of electronics. Kondo definitely supplies the strangeness, but in small doses. Sometimes this sounds like free improvised acoustic quartet, but when the electronics start it gets other worldly. There is ample room for everyone to solo, so there is quite a bit of variety on the disk. I've also got FMP 68, Open Paper Tree, a sax trio with Michel Doneda, Paul Rogers, and Le Quan Ninh. I like Ninh's work a lot, he's very noisy and imaginative when it comes to found sounds and percussion, but I found the sound quality of this live release to be a bit muddy. The music, of course, is excellent. Thanks for the tip on the web site. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: FMP recs? Date: 04 Mar 1998 09:56:55 -0500 (EST) On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Tom Pratt wrote: > With all of this talk about Hans Reichel, I have to ask - what FMP discs > do you guys like the best?? the cecil taylor / derek bailey duo cd is worth having if you're interested in either of those gentlemen. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yin Pin <yinpin@pop6.jaring.my> Subject: Re: FMP recs? Date: 05 Mar 1998 00:09:43 +0000 i don't know how anyone could have failed to mention the many cecil taylor releases. (FMP cd2-cd6, cd8/9, 11, 25 & the list goes on) >FMP CD24 >Peter Brotzmann Octet (incl. Brotzmann, Parker, Kowald, Bennink, etc.) >Machine Gun (1968) an inquiry: how many on this list own a copy of brotzmann sextet/quartet '69 _nipples_? (not on FMP) intense, mindblowing jazz-noise from broztmann-evan parker-derek bailey -fred van hove-buschi niegergall-han bennink. -pin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: FMP recs? Date: 04 Mar 1998 08:05:46 -0800 On Thu, 05 Mar 1998 00:09:43 +0000 Yin Pin wrote: > > i don't know how anyone could have failed to mention > the many cecil taylor releases. > (FMP cd2-cd6, cd8/9, 11, 25 & the list goes on) > > >FMP CD24 > >Peter Brotzmann Octet (incl. Brotzmann, Parker, Kowald, Bennink, etc.) > >Machine Gun (1968) > > an inquiry: how many on this list own a copy of brotzmann > sextet/quartet '69 _nipples_? (not on FMP) > intense, mindblowing jazz-noise from broztmann-evan parker-derek bailey > -fred van hove-buschi niegergall-han bennink. I do (left in France like most of my records :-(. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Re: Dave Douglas' Sanctuary Date: 04 Mar 1998 10:35:13 -0600 Jeroen, Sanctuary is a "double band" kind of thing for the nineties. One drummer, one sax, two trumpets, two basses, and two samplers. I'll start off by saying that it's great. Chris Speed is the sax player, someone that I've been really enjoying listening to (his disc Yeah No and any of Tim Berne's Bloodcount). Sanctuary, though, is a long flowing piece that goes between sections where the whole ensemble plays to just basses to just trumpets... basically all over the place. There are points when one of the guys gets a hip-hop type beat going on the sampler and the drummer basically sits out except for accents and fills. I recommend it. I don't know what else to say except listen to it. Oh, by the way, Jeroen. I never received those tapes you were going to send me back in October. Did you ever send them? It was a pretty big trade (7) and I hope you haven't forgotten. Go listen to Sanctuary. Dan >I'm new on the list, so maybe you've talked about this album already. >Anyway, can someone tell me what it's like? > >Thanks, > >Jeroen de Boer - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Naked City - Radio Date: 04 Mar 1998 10:58:48 -0600 Hey folks, I was looking in the Penguin Guide the other day and I checked out the Zorn and Naked City (different listings) reviews and I was a little surprised. Naked City got pretty low ratings and Radio got the worst. I guess for Naked City maybe it's doesn't express the same ideas as Torture Garden or the latter half of Grand Gugnol (sp?) but I like it the best. In fact as far as taking popular-ish/more common music and fucking with it hard core I think Radio does a great job. Because it starts off "normal" and gets progressively harsh and aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!! I think it does it's job quite well. The progression is great from Sunset Surfer to whatever some of the later tracks are called. Metaltov. Oh and Triggerfingers! What a great tune. Well, regardless of all of that, my roomate pointed something out to me this morning. There are all of those influences listed in the liner notes and they are grouped and separated by slashes (/). There are nineteen tracks and nineteen groups of influences. Man, that'll be a tough one to figure out. Has anyone noticed this before and if so has anyone matched the influences to the tracks? Interesting... Oh yeah I forgot to mention the Masada ratings in the Penguin Guide. Alef (one) got the best and two and three got the next best. Five and six were the only other ones in there and they got worse ratings than two and three. They said that the later ones are just repetitive and more of the same and despensible. Damn. Oh well. For the record, I disagree. I'm just waiting for the box to come out so I can have them all. Does anyone know if there is any word on the release of this. Also, when is ten supposed to come out. Also, does DIW have a website. Also, that's enough, bye. Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew R. Miller" <motion@pop.nb.sympatico.ca> Subject: scores of scores Date: 04 Mar 1998 13:19:38 +0000 Dear Zornlist, Does anyone out there know how I can get ahold of John Zorn scores/parts (ie: sheet music). Andrew Miller motion@nb.sympatico.ca - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Pierre Toussaint <m223024@er.uqam.ca> Subject: re: daxophone Date: 04 Mar 1998 12:14:13 -0500 (EST) =46or those of you interested in more daxophone recordings, I have to mentio= n two great CD's by Jean Derome et les dangereux zhoms. It is Rene Lussier who plays the instrument. The first CD is called 'Carnets de voyage' (AM032CD) and the second one is 'Navr=E9' (AM038CD). Both ar available on th= e Ambiance Magnetique Label e-mail: dame_cd@cam.org - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: magnum-jihad@juno.com (Nathan M Earixson) Subject: Re: Filmworks VIII Date: 04 Mar 1998 12:04:52 -0600 On Wed, 4 Mar 1998 10:04:50 +0100 Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be> writes: > >> Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if you could find pieces that matched >most of >> the Masada/Bar Kokhba tunes. They mostly have very simple chord >structures, >> and there's nothing too spectacular about the chords in the bridge >of >> Maskil. > > The first tune on CD 1 of Bar Kokhba (Gevurah) actually sounds as > a clone of Misirlou by Dick Dale (of Pulp Fiction-Fame) > > YVes Actually. 'Misrlou' is a traditional Greek (?) song. Dick Dale just played it reall echoey-like. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman Date: 04 Mar 1998 14:33:59 -0500 (EST) I described _Virgin Beauty_ and _Tone Dialing_ as "uncluttered-sounding" in one post and "cluttered" in another. Oooops. Let me clarify: They wouldn't sound like a wall of noise to even the most virgin ear (unlike, say, the Prime Time material on _In All Languages_), but they are cluttered in detail. I suspect it's this combination strikes many listeners as soupy and unfocused. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Naked City - Radio Date: 04 Mar 1998 14:45:06 -0500 (EST) On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, Dan Hewins wrote: > There are nineteen > tracks and nineteen groups of influences. Man, that'll be a tough one to > figure out. Has anyone noticed this before and if so has anyone matched > the influences to the tracks? Interesting... While I couldn't make sense of all of them, I think they're listed in order. > Oh yeah I forgot to mention the Masada ratings in the Penguin Guide. Alef > (one) got the best and two and three got the next best. Five and six were > the only other ones in there and they got worse ratings than two and three. > They said that the later ones are just repetitive and more of the same and > despensible. Damn. This is probably the result of listening to each disc once, in sequence. I don't think many people who've seriously checked out the whole series would pick _Alef_ as the best of the series. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Schwartz <jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu> Subject: Re: Ornette Coleman Date: 04 Mar 1998 15:02:29 -0500 Christopher Hamilton wrote: > > I described _Virgin Beauty_ and _Tone Dialing_ as "uncluttered-sounding" > in one post and "cluttered" in another. Oooops. Let me clarify: They > wouldn't sound like a wall of noise to even the most virgin ear (unlike, > say, the Prime Time material on _In All Languages_), but they > are cluttered in detail. I suspect it's this combination strikes many > listeners as soupy and unfocused. > > Chris Hamilton > > - I don't care for Denardo as a producer. The earlier Prime Time albums sound like 6 or seven people playing-the ones he produced have this unpleasant sound which I think of as digital. Even the quartet part of In All Languages has peculiar reverbs and such. This makes the unavailability of Of Human Feelings and Live at the Caravan of Dreams especially annoying and the reissue of Body Meta a particularly cool thing. Of course, as many of y'all have said, the Atlantic recordings (especially Change of the Century & The Shape of Jazz to Come & This is Our Music) are the essential Ornette and I am a huge fan of the trio with David Izenson and Charles Moffett. Izenson's influence on bass playing is enormous. While a bunch of other folks were in the smae place at the same time, bringing techniques from avant-classical music into jazz (like Gary Peacock, Richard Davis, and Ronnie Boykins) and extending the possibilities of the instrument from there, there's something about Izenson's playing which is unique. It probably has to do with playing with Ornette, who (especially with this trio) encourages if not demands his sidemen to avoid the conventional. Izenson taught some of today's cool bassists-I don't remember exactly who-Lindberg, Dresser, Helias? The two Blue Note albums are the must-haves from this band. There's a bunch of other stuff, but the recording quality is not always what it could be, and the legal status of some releases is dubious (for those who care about such things).Look for Who's Crazy, An Evening with Ornette Coleman, and Town Hall Concert, especially the first two. -- Jeff Schwartz jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William R Baker <wrb@christa.unh.edu> Subject: Re: Naked City - Radio Date: 04 Mar 1998 15:04:09 -0500 (EST) A Radio fun fact: I am almost sure that "Sunset Surfer" is a Naked City arrangement of The Cynical Hysterical Hour theme. just compare it to "surfing Samba" on Filmworks VII. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Schwartz <jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu> Subject: The Many Masada CDs Date: 04 Mar 1998 15:13:03 -0500 I agree. I am listening to Tet right now, and it definitely is one of my favorites. The compositions are not as catchy as on the first few, where some of the heads would actually stick in my head and I'd find myself humming them at work, but the sound seems better. The bass is more audible and plays a more compositional role (instead of walking or droning most of the time). This is mostly a first impression-I haven't listened to all the albums at once or anything and don't have 7 or 8. Oh yeah, add my name to the list of people who are going to be irritated if Tzadik puts out a box set of the DIW Masadas. It will surely cost less than having bought them at import prices & I'd rather see Tzadik put out material that's either new or has been unavailable (live Naked City! stuff from the KF ZornFest! Great Jewish Music Leonard Bernstein!) Christopher Hamilton wrote: > > > Oh yeah I forgot to mention the Masada ratings in the Penguin Guide. Alef > > (one) got the best and two and three got the next best. Five and six were > > the only other ones in there and they got worse ratings than two and three. > > They said that the later ones are just repetitive and more of the same and > > despensible. Damn. > > This is probably the result of listening to each disc once, in sequence. > I don't think many people who've seriously checked out the whole series > would pick _Alef_ as the best of the series. > > Chris Hamilton > > - -- Jeff Schwartz jeffs@bgnet.bgsu.edu http://www.bgsu.edu/~jeffs/main.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: dreyblatt Date: 04 Mar 1998 16:00:38 -0500 (EST) does anyone know of any dreyblatt titles besides _animal magnetism_, _nodal excitations_ and _propellers in love_? thanks, b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: C E DANGELO <cappyd@UVic.CA> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #252 Date: 04 Mar 1998 12:51:01 -0800 (PST) You don't think there's any Ornette influence (improv-wise) on News for Lulu? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #252 Date: 04 Mar 1998 13:03:06 -0800 On Wed, 4 Mar 1998 12:51:01 -0800 (PST) C E DANGELO wrote: > > You don't think there's any Ornette influence (improv-wise) on News for > Lulu? Ornette would not be the first name which comes to my mind concerning the LULUs. These two records are testimony of John's love for the '50s "Blue Note artists" (a period which predates Coleman). Are you asking the question about his saxophone style? Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: dreyblatt Date: 04 Mar 1998 13:05:28 -0800 On Wed, 4 Mar 1998 16:00:38 -0500 (EST) Brent Burton wrote: > > does anyone know of any dreyblatt titles besides _animal magnetism_, > _nodal excitations_ and _propellers in love_? Is PROPELLERS IN LOVE the hat Art one? If yes, I don't know of any other record under his name (but he is at least on one compilation). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: C E DANGELO <cappyd@UVic.CA> Subject: masada Date: 04 Mar 1998 13:29:33 -0800 (PST) Maybe I'm missing the whole point of Masada, but doesn't it have something to do with the expression of Jewish culture, which by definition will entail the use of previously used material? And will it not, because of the nature of Jewish culture, inevitably contain material derived from cultures which have interacted with Jewish culture (Greek, American, Spanish (see Sephardic Tinge), Eastern European, etc.)? I would fail to see the whole point of Masada or the Radical Jewish Culture Series if it DIDN'T use borrowed material. Also, I think the Serge Gainsbourg album is great! cd - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: C E DANGELO <cappyd@UVic.CA> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #252 Date: 04 Mar 1998 15:37:00 -0800 (PST) Yes, I was refering to the sax. My comment mainly relies on my opinion that, stylisticly, there are things going on with respect to harmony and tone that go beyond what one would have heard by these composers at the time these tunes were originally composed. For example, the way Zorn throws in a short, aggressive, atonal riff at the end of a phrase or behind someone's solo - I would associate this with Ornette more than with, say, pre-sixties Coltrane (who would spend a while building up to such a riff during a long, developed solo). Maybe it's just because it's alto. Maybe I just haven't heard enough Mobley. cd - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chasinthetrane@juno.com (Jamie F Graves) Subject: Re: Bass Albums Date: 04 Mar 1998 22:20:23 -0500 Charlie Haden put out a few albums in the 70's that were very close to solo bass albums. The Golden Number is six duets with the likes of Ornette, Don Cherry and Hampton Hawes. Not quite solo, but a lot of these duets include big stretches of Charlie on his own. In addition, Jimmy Garrison got a lot of solo space on some late Coltrane albums. Someone mentioned Tapestry in Sound off of Live in Seattle, but that album also includes a half hour Afro-Blue, with about 10 or 15 minutes devoted to a double bass duet. Jamie _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Anders Fransson <anders.fransson@hoe.se> Subject: FMP/Branca Date: 05 Mar 1998 09:08:04 +0100 -- About FMP, one of the best i think is "We Play" by Gunter Christman and Detlef Shoneberg. Werry tight playing Does anybody know when Symphony no.11 of Glenn Branca is released? Stay untuned Anders ____________________________________________________________________________ Anders Fransson, Biblioteket, Hogskolan i Orebro, 701 82 Orebro, Sweden. e-mail: anders.fransson@hoe.se Phone +46 19 30 38 66 Fax +46 19 30 38 55 ____________________________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #255 Date: 05 Mar 1998 09:55:04 GMT0BST 1) How can I imaginatively change from E to F 2) I strongly dissent from the tendency to group Virgin Beauty and Tone Dialling. The second seems "cluttered" but not the first. I think there's something in what Jeff says about Denardo's productions, though; but virgin Beauty is the one case where it hasn't bothered me. 3) Finally: Yes! Why have we neglected to rave about the Coleman/Izenson/Moffett trio? But I question rating Who's Crazy? (a film soundtrack with frustrating editing) over Town Hall Concert. Nobody will argue with the Croydon and Stockholm recordings, though. I'm willing to stand up for Empty Foxhole; will someone do the same for new York Is Now and Love Call? And finally, has ANYONE got a copy of Ornette At 12 ... PLEASE can i have a tape copy?? Sean W - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice <gda@pingnet.li> Subject: Re: masada Date: 05 Mar 1998 12:00:14 +0000 C E DANGELO wrote: > doesn't it have something > to do with the expression of Jewish culture, which by definition will ========================= > entail the use of previously used material? And will it not, because ============================================= the way i understand masada it is based on traditional jewish tone scales which IMO doesn't necessarily mean the use of previously used material. but a lot of the masada melodies do sound familiar, because a lot of us have heard stuff based on jewish tone scales, and can therefore easily relate to it. also, the jewish tone scales have sthg very easily likeable, a "friendliness" for the ear, i think... patRice of > the nature of Jewish culture, inevitably contain material derived from > cultures which have interacted with Jewish culture (Greek, American, > Spanish (see Sephardic Tinge), Eastern European, etc.)? I would fail to > see the whole point of Masada or the Radical Jewish Culture Series if it > DIDN'T use borrowed material. > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: more FMP and solo bass Date: 05 Mar 1998 08:48:06 -0500 Following the discussion of FMP, I listened to Open Paper Tree (FMP 68) on the way to work today. Yesterday I said the recording of Michel Doneda (soprano sax), Paul Rogers (bass) and Le Quan Ninh (percussion) was muddy. After listening again, I can add a little clarification. Doneda and Rogers, for the most part, are clear, but Le Quan's percussion sometimes seems lost in the mix. This may be in part because of what he plays. In one of his solos, he gets very noisy, but it sounds like he's playing a big sheet of metal which generates large indistinct clouds of sound (not impossible, given what I've heard on other recordings by him). Perhaps I'm unjustly comparing the recording to the crystal clear trio recordings of Leimgruber, Hauser, and Roidinger on Hat, which had the benefit of a studio recording. Hauser is very different from Le Quan, probably a contributing factor as well. Also, Peter Kowald's solo bass effort, Was Da Ist, is FMP 62. I haven't listened to this all the way through yet, but it comes very well reviewed from both Cadence (where it was on several best-of-the-year lists) and the Penguin Guide (which gave it the highest rating, five stars). --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: masada Date: 05 Mar 1998 10:03:54 -0600 (CST) On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, patRice wrote: > the way i understand masada it is based on traditional jewish tone > scales which IMO doesn't necessarily mean the use of previously used > material. but a lot of the masada melodies do sound familiar, because a > lot of us have heard stuff based on jewish tone scales, and can > therefore easily relate to it. also, the jewish tone scales have sthg > very easily likeable, a "friendliness" for the ear, i think... The concept of "Jewish tone scales" is also somewhat odd. What you're probably referring to is the Eastern European modalities that are associated with the music of the Jews whose families are from there. That's only a small corner of Jewish music though. In my freshman year in college, I frustrated my ethnomusicology professor by collecting samples of what both he and I agreed could be called "Jewish music" from around the world, analyzing it and running a statistical analysis on it -- which showed absolutely no characteristics in common across the set. He had made a big noise about Jewish music being an ethnic music which should show up as consistent. It didn't. We didn't talk much afterward. I've run across the most common "Jewish tone scale" (roughly D-Eb-F#-G-A-BB-C#-D ) in some Arabic music, where it was called the "hijaz" mode (if memory serves -- this was 20 years ago). It's a bear to notate; most of the time when I've used it, I've written in D, with a key signature of two sharps and two flats, to try to save the player from navigating through a nest of accidentals. - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org> Subject: Re: Laswell Info Date: 05 Mar 1998 10:29:28 -0800 At 01:20 PM 2/23/98 -0800, Jeff Spirer wrote: >NEW RELEASE INFO > >Material: The Road to the Western Lands (Remixes). Will probably be >released on March 10 on Triloka. Remixes by Bill Laswell, Talvin Singh, DJ >Soul Slinger, Spring Heel Jack, DJ Olive, and Material. I have a cassette >but have not listened to it. I will post after I do. This is not the >Seven Souls re-release, although I think there is a one-track overlap. This will definitely be out next week. There is *vinyl* on it too. Jeff Spirer B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9mi?= Bissonnette <rbisson@courrier.usherb.ca> Subject: Praxis: Transmutation Date: 06 Mar 1998 00:13:15 -0500 If anybody is interested, I have a new sealed copy of the first Praxis CD, Transmutation, to sell or trade. Bruno R=E9mi Bissonnette Ph.D. Professeur titulaire =46acult=E9 d'=C9ducation physique et sportive Universit=E9 de Sherbrooke Sherbrooke, Qu=E9bec J1K 2R1 =20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com> Subject: charmed, i'm sure Date: 05 Mar 1998 23:19:41 -0800 (PST) maybe i missed it, but has anyone else picked up the new Davey Williams (Curlew) solo release "Charmed, I'm Sure" on Ecstatic Peace? any thoughts? listening to it right now for the first time. overall, it reminds me of Myles Boisen's "Guitarspeak". except, Williams' style is a lot more chunky, if that makes sense. hasta. --dk Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque <Dgasque@aol.com> Subject: Re: FMP Date: 06 Mar 1998 04:09:32 EST I don't know if it's been released on CD yet, but there's a trio of Irene Schweizer and the drummer and bassist from the German psych/world-music group Embryo on FMP- can't remember the name of it now...that is downright stunning. It's quite unique from anything Irene's done since. =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be> Subject: Sabbath in Paradise Date: 06 Mar 1998 10:05:12 +0100 Did somebody see the movie "Sabbath in Paradise" ? It should include interviews with/music of :John Zorn, Marc Ribot, David Krakauer, Frank Londen,Anthony Coleman, ... YVes - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrick Stockton" <sheepherder@worldnet.att.net> Subject: masada Date: 05 Mar 1998 22:48:49 -0800 is anyone absolutely sure about the release of all the Masadas on Tzadik? just wondering.... i dont want to buy any more if they are going to release them here in the U.S. patrick in portland - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "m. rizzi" <rizzi@netcom.com> Subject: ATTN: old bounces coming in Date: 06 Mar 1998 10:30:04 -0800 (PST) Howdy all, Your absentee list administrator here. In cleaning up my mail folder, I've come across a number of messages that were bounced to me and never made it to the zorn-list. I'm going to approve them and send them on their way. Some are hideously old, so don't panic when you see a message from say, October! cheers, mike rizzi -- rizzi@netcom.com -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com "Another nerd with a soulpatch" -------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 ------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William R Baker <wrb@christa.unh.edu> Subject: Masada box? Date: 06 Mar 1998 13:37:55 -0500 (EST) on the Tzadik site (in the questions section) John himself tells a tale of not 1 but 2 box sets of Masada material. It's been really difficult for me to find Masada CDs around and since i heard this rumour I've kind of been content to wait. but then Tet was just released so I'm not sure what the deal is. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: help with KF tape Date: 06 Mar 1998 14:53:29 -0500 (EST) On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > Does anybody have a copy of the following? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *** - SAMPLER A.V. ARTS VOL. 1 (KNITTING FACTORY - MUWORKS): various artists > > This record features excerpts from Improvised Music New York 1981. > > 1992 - Musiche (Italy), No 13 (CT) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ don't have a copy but it sounds like trax from the muworks album recorded @ the kitchen with derek bailey, charles k. noyes, bill laswell (i think?) among others. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: help with KF tape Date: 06 Mar 1998 11:58:54 -0800 On Fri, 6 Mar 1998 14:53:29 -0500 (EST) Brent Burton wrote: > > On Fri, 17 Oct 1997, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > > Does anybody have a copy of the following? > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > *** - SAMPLER A.V. ARTS VOL. 1 (KNITTING FACTORY - MUWORKS): various artists > > > > This record features excerpts from Improvised Music New York 1981. > > > > 1992 - Musiche (Italy), No 13 (CT) > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > don't have a copy but it sounds like trax from the muworks album > recorded @ the kitchen with derek bailey, charles k. noyes, bill laswell > (i think?) among others. Since last October, I got the detailed answer to this question. And yes, you are right about that specific one. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "m. rizzi" <rizzi@netcom.com> Subject: Re: bass question Date: 06 Mar 1998 12:04:19 -0800 (PST) >has nothing to do with size. In my experience, it really has to do with individual tastes. oops, wrong mailing list. m:) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: masada Date: 06 Mar 1998 15:37:21 -0500 (EST) > C E DANGELO wrote: > > doesn't it have something > > to do with the expression of Jewish culture, which by definition will > ========================= > > entail the use of previously used material? And will it not, because ============================================= > > the way i understand masada it is based on traditional jewish tone > scales which IMO doesn't necessarily mean the use of previously used > material. but a lot of the masada melodies do sound familiar, because a > lot of us have heard stuff based on jewish tone scales, and can > therefore easily relate to it. also, the jewish tone scales have sthg > very easily likeable, a "friendliness" for the ear, i think... Although Bar Kokhbah played 'kol nidre' (SP?) when i saw them in TO... -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: AEC, was re: bass albums Date: 03 Mar 1998 02:04:18 -0500 Brian Olewnick wrote: > > Malachi Favors has a solo disc on the Art Ensemble's little label AECO[snip] > > I think it was 'The Natural and the Spiritual', if I recall correctly; > it's the one issue of the initial three (the others being Jarman's > 'Sunbound' and Moye's 'Sun Percussion') that I don't have. I'd guess > that there's more than solo bass going on there, though... You're right about the title, but I'm very nearly positive that it was solo bass or at most bass augmented with "little instruments," as there were no other musicians listed on the disc. > [Re: Art Ensemble] > > So, whadja think? I went with a couple of misgivings: 1) I hadn't seen > or heard them in Jarman-less form and thought it might hurt. 2) I share > the common view that their best days are way behind them and a certain > rut-like quality had entered the live shows (though, I'd be the first to > admit, it's a pretty high rut). I can see both of your points and in fact didn't actually make the decision to attend this concert until the morning of the day it was held. I sort of saw them last summer at the Texaco Festival but since I was "working" that gig I wasn't actually giving my full attention to the band. What I remembered was that the first half was flat and dull, the second half lively and swinging. Since that's exactly what every critic in town wrote, I guess I must have been a bit in tune with the room. And while I also think their glory days may be past, I heard them play a show back in 1989 that is still one of the two or three most powerful shows I've ever witnessed in any genre or idiom, so they still had it in them after I thought their time had past at least one time before... > The first half > was largely percussive and quiet, Roscoe spending a lot of time in his > percussion arsenal, Bowie quite plaintive. This is precisely right, and very little else happened of note in the first half. I was almost ready to believe that the group was down to less than one sax player, and wondered if Roscoe was limiting his playing for some reason related to his illness last year (I can't remember its nature but remember quite clearly that the group played a prominent date... Bumbershoot, perhaps?... as a trio). But the second half would prove that Roscoe didn't play too much sax in the first half because the music was drawing him elsewhere. Not such a bad thing since everything he played on tenor seemed to be pretty badly out of tune... I must also point out here that Roscoe's percussion set-up was something out of a percussionist's wet dream... a four-sided cage of things to be hit, blown through or otherwise manipulated in unorthodox ways. There were game calls, ethnic drums, alarms and telephone bells, wooden and metal blocks and surfaces, gongs and others tubes and sheets to be struck, even what sounded like the components of Henry Threadgill's old Hubkaphone. It was incredible, and so densely packed that Roscoe had to walk around the back of the thing and *get down on the floor and crawl into it!* Now *that's* entertainment. > The second set was more straight ahead, beginning with a piece in the > style of Bowie's 'Charlie M', including another reminiscent of 'Walking > in the Moonlight' and concluding with the obligatory (and, by now, kinda > perfunctory) 'Odwalla' (Sorry, but nothing will ever surpass the > 'Bap-tizum' version for sheer drama and power) That may be, but I was actually happy to hear this newly-sambafied version... it was a cute way to avoid absolute retread, and I would most likely be as disappointed not to hear a version of "Odwalla" at the end of an AECO show as a Lynyrd Skynyrd fan would've been to not hear "Free Bird." I think one of the tunes on the second half may have been "Whatever Happens" from the best of the DIW records, "The Alternative Express," which I'm listening to right now. I was really happy to hear Favors and Moye engage in the old-style vocal shenanigans that seemed to have left the band with Jarman, the most theatrical of the bunch. I also noticed the obligatory loud gongs piece, but it didn't bother me a bit. It just seemed like something that ought to be present in an Art Ensemble show. Maybe it is that very sense of expectation, and of knowing what I'll be hearing, that I should most fear when it comes to hearing this band, but I suppose ultimately I'm as comfortable hearing this band now as others would be at a Billy Joel concert at Nassau Colisseum. > Mitchell had two > extraordinary back-to-back solos on soprano and alto, the former coming > out of his work on that horn since 'The Flow of Things', the latter one > of his patented gnarly, snorting efforts. I always enjoy the almost > perverse pleasure he seems to take in playing _against_ the strong > grooves that Moye and Favors set up. Mitchell's still got it, alright... he just saves most of it for the Note Factory these days. I'm still eagerly awaiting that ECM release later this year... Mitchell, Hugh Ragin, George Lewis, Craig Taborn, Jaribu Shahid, Tani Tabbal, Matt Shipp, William Parker and another drummer I can't remember right this minute. > They encored with a fine, ferocious and funky number that was new to me. Perhaps something written for their upcoming release on Atlantic? > I did miss Jarman and thought the group sounded noticeably thinner > without him and I still think I'm unlikely to hear from them anything to > really compare with their incredible achievements from 1968-73. That > said, I'd rather hear them than 90% of other bands around today and was > glad I went. Agreed on both counts. Even if the Art Ensemble sounds almost completely predictable to me in most ways now, I still find them fresher and more capable of surprise than many others of their generation or later (although Anthony Braxton remains the benchmark of mercurial genius). And I'm very glad I went. It was also fun to go to Tower afterwards and watch the newcomers trying to decide which disc to buy. And it was nice to see the 1100 seat venue very nearly full. It was a big, appreciative crowd that gave the group two standing ovations and called them out for an encore and a curtain call. It's about time. Just wish Jarman could've been there to share in the adulation. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Bobby Previte/Uz Jsme Doma Date: 09 Mar 1998 01:37:34 -0500 (EST) Thanks to all (patrice) who recomended 'too close to the pole'...what a brilliant album. It reminds me, in spots, of this other band, a 'czech puck opera jazz' band called Uz Jsme Doma. Has anyone else heard them? I'd very much recomend them to all out there...they're very much a rock band, but they're very tight, and their sound tends towards the sort of frantic virtuosity which the title track of 'too close to the pole' has going. Lineup: drums, keys, guitars, bass, sax, basoon, other wind instruments, and they all sing, as well. Neat-o. They have a web page with samples, if anyone's curiosity is piqued. -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FUNKADELlC <FUNKADELlC@aol.com> Subject: cool shit Date: 09 Mar 1998 04:53:29 EST hey.. im just droppin a tip... but the first album by the Blue Meanies is full of EVIL SKA and klezmer... and their new album is full of EVIL SKA and blast beats <ie Nekkid Citee/ Painkiller>.... cool shite.. -cory sklar - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com> Subject: Re: Uz Jsme Doma Date: 09 Mar 1998 09:14:17 -0500 > On Mon, 9 Mar 1998 01:37:34 -0500 (EST), ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> sed: > > Thanks to all (patrice) who recomended 'too close to the pole'...what a > brilliant album. It reminds me, in spots, of this other band, a 'czech > puck opera jazz' band called Uz Jsme Doma. Has anyone else heard them? > > I'd very much recomend them to all out there...they're very much a rock > band, but they're very tight, and their sound tends towards the > sort of frantic virtuosity which the title track of 'too close to the > pole' has going. Lineup: drums, keys, guitars, bass, sax, basoon, other > wind instruments, and they all sing, as well. Neat-o. > These guys are great. HOLLYWOOD is one of my favorite CD's from the last couple of years. It's loud, funny, weird and really compelling. They usually get lumped in Zappa and the Residents but in the end, they don't sound a lot like either. Check out this site for more info on them (yes, I admit there's a link to PSF there): http://www.zverina.com/alternatune/uzjsmedoma.html Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: cool shit Date: 09 Mar 1998 09:38:28 -0500 (EST) > of EVIL SKA and klezmer... and their new album is full of EVIL SKA and blast ^^^^^^^^ vas ist das 'EVIL SKA'? -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Zeke's <zeke@zeke.com> Subject: KF 2 Date: 09 Mar 1998 09:28:38 -0500 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD4B3F.8338C300 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Howdy! For those of you who might be making travel plans, the Knit is opening a = second location in Lake Charles, LA. Apparently it is supposed to open = in August. 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Its pretty interesting. I also saw it once at Kim's on Bleeker street in NYC. Never seen it since I should have bought it. e-mail me personally and Ill see what I can do. Rich rladew@hopper.unh.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dtapia@unoco.edu (Douglas Tapia) Subject: Re: EVIL SKA?!? Date: 09 Mar 1998 09:39:10 -0700 >> of EVIL SKA and klezmer... and their new album is full of EVIL SKA and blast > ^^^^^^^^ > >vas ist das 'EVIL SKA'? > >-jascha > I don't know, but if it's in Bb and sounds like a bunch of Brits playing reggae too fast, count me in!!! SKA?!? Who's idea was this? BUT if it's EVIL SKA, I might be interested, thus I second: What is EVIL SKA? (Has to be cool if it's EVIL, eh?) Doug - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard E Ladew <rladew@hopper.unh.edu> Subject: WUNH Durham 91.3fm Jazz/Modern reports March 9, 1998 Date: 09 Mar 1998 14:33:36 -0500 (EST) Jazz/Modern/PCP House Of Coffee WUNH Durham 91.3fm Rich Ladew, Director (603) 659-1732 Memorial Union Building (MUB) University of New Hampshire DURHAM NH 03824 Play is based on 2hrs Tuesday night (10pm-midnight (PCP House of Coffee), 3-4 hrs gen. programming, and approx. 1 hr general jazz play. (Artist) (Recording Title) (Label) 1. Bill Ware Vibes Knitting factory Works 2.William Hooker Great Sunset Warm-O-Brisk 3. Prajna Postmodernism Eclectic 4. Buckethead Colma Cyberoctave 5.MASADA TET DIW 6.Painkiller (4XCD BOX) Tzadik 7.Brad Shepik and the Commuters The Loan Songlines 8. David Slusser Daylight at the End of the Tunnel Tzadik 9.John Lindberg Ensemble Bounce Black Saint 10. John Zorn Angelus Novus Tzadik - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FUNKADELlC <FUNKADELlC@aol.com> Subject: Re: cool shit Date: 09 Mar 1998 15:19:12 EST In a message dated 98-03-09 09:38:42 EST, you write: << > of EVIL SKA and klezmer... and their new album is full of EVIL SKA and blast ^^^^^^^^ vas ist das 'EVIL SKA'? -jascha >> C'MON!!!!.... this is just my way of saying "haunting sounding" ska music... i dunno... i guess it means more diminished or minor chords on the upbeat or sumthin... i.e. Speacials "ghost town" or early Oingo Boingo or sumpthin... the rest of you know what i mean when i say "EVIL SKA" .... i dunno how to explain it.. you guys help me out -cory sklar - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Artur Nowak" <arno@silesia.top.pl> Subject: Bill Frisell discography (message from POLAND) Date: 09 Mar 1998 22:36:22 +0100 Dear Philozorners! If you like the music of Bill FRISELL, please visit my page dedicated to Bill with his (of course not) complete DISCOGRAPHY. The location is: http://www.silesia.top.pl/~arno/emd/pl40/artists/f/frisell_bill/default.htm Although my Frisell pages are only in polish right now, you can still browse the discography, because the discography itself is all in english. One more requirement: this site is made in HTML 4.0, especially Cascading Style Sheets, so you need MS Internet Explorer 4.0 in order to access it (until now Netscape is far behind this standard; just try to see it). Version for "old" browsers will be available... sometime. Please feel free to flame me! Artur Nowak (arno@silesia.top.pl) Licht und Liebe sich entzuenden - Wo sich Streng' und Milde finden. Zorn und Finsternis entbrennen - Wo sich Streng' und Milde trennen. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Goode/Cd sale Date: 09 Mar 1998 20:56:33 -0500 Has anybody checked out the new Tzadik release by Daniel Goode?? How is it? I had the choice between that and the Graves disc the other day and opted for the Graves so I'm wondering what I'm missing out on!! Also, I have some discs I'm looking to sell by Anthony Coleman, Elliott Sharp, Anderson/Crispell/Drake and Anthony Braxton. Let me know if you're interested and I'll give the full scoop. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: Half Japanese Date: 10 Mar 1998 12:48:13 +0100 (MEZ) well can anyone tell me which of these HALF JAPANESE records is the best???? Fire in the sky (1992) Hot (1995) Charmed life (1988) Music to strip by (1987) The band who would be king (1989) answers please privately to me BJOERN - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com> Subject: masada Date: 10 Mar 1998 09:07:55 -0500 Did anyone out there get an FM recording of the Masada String Trio and/or the Andy Statman program? I have lots to trade. Alan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dennis summers <denniss@ic.net> Subject: Ornette Date: 10 Mar 1998 07:04:19 -0700 Entering into the Ornette conversation late, I'd have to second Wilkie's rave of the Coleman/Izenson/Moffett trio, in fact this was my first exposure to Ornette in The Great London Concert which remains one of my faves. I've also noticed that no one has mentioned his recent two Sound Museum discs which I think have been a great "return" to form. However, I suppose that the original "poster" was asking where to start and we're offering far too many choices. I don't think that anyone will defend New York is Now or Love Call, which after years of searching, I got when rereleased on CD, and was hugely disappointed. Finally to Wilkie, I have Ornette at 12, if no one else has already responded contact me direct. ***Quantum Dance Works*** ****http://ic.net/~denniss**** - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Marc A. Foster" <mfoster@datasync.com> Subject: unknown cd sale Date: 10 Mar 1998 09:45:53 -0600 Sorry to bother everyone with this, but I found a text file of a cd sale that I got from someone on this list- problem is, I can't remember who it's from or how old it is. I've included an excerpt from the file. If you recognize it as yours, please get in touch with me. I lost the email address that goes with the file. Marc Foster > OK, here's how the CD sale works: > > First come, first serve (I go by the order that the emails arrive in my > inbox). > > I have to get the money before I ship - In the 10 years that I've been > trading on the Internet, I've never been a "bad trader". If you send me the > money, I will send you the merchandise. I honor all commitments. If you > don't want to do it that way, sorry, but I'm not going to get burned. > > CDs with a * by them are reserved, but I haven't gotten the money or > shipped them yet. If you want something that's reserved, let me know and > I'll put you down for it . You might still be able to get it since > sometimes people don't always follow through and send the money for what > they've reserved. > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: EVIL SKA, and movie trivia Date: 10 Mar 1998 12:36:46 -0500 (EST) > << > of EVIL SKA and klezmer... and their new album is full of EVIL SKA and > blast > ^^^^^^^^ > > vas ist das 'EVIL SKA'? > C'MON!!!!.... this is just my way of saying "haunting sounding" ska music... i Aw, too bad...i thought this was a full-blown genre :) Perhaps, in time, it will be. I, myself, am looking for EVIL REGGAE or (better still) SINISTER DUB, although EVIL SKA has an alluring ring to it. Any suggestions? Question, re: EVIL REGGAE: the music which plays at the beginning of the film 'stepping razor: red X' about Peter Tosh is (in memory, at least) the most wonderfully psychedelic/slow-mo/sinister/lynchian reggae, and i don't think it's Peter Tosh, even though it's a movie about him. Does anyone know who dunnit? thanks, -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Doug McKay" <mckay003@maroon.tc.umn.edu> Subject: Big Gundown Date: 12 Mar 1998 05:00:40 I finally got this today. First impression: Disappointment. Did anyone else have to grow into this album? I imagine I'll like it later, being that I like Zorn. I guess I just expected something that it isn't. It seems anemic to me. "Once Upon a Time in the West" is powerful in the movie. I don't feel that here at all. I'm reminded of how he emasculated "The Good the Bad and the Ugly" on the first Film Music album. Has Zorn ever done original film music for a Western? Right now I can't imagine he could pull it off for anyone who actually cared about the genre. Doug McKay Old West Society of Minnesota - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Big Gundown Date: 12 Mar 1998 23:49:35 +1100 > I finally got this today. First impression: Disappointment. Did anyone else > have to grow into this album? I imagine I'll like it later, being that I > like Zorn. I guess I just expected something that it isn't. It seems anemic > to me. "Once Upon a Time in the West" is powerful in the movie. I don't > feel that here at all. I'm reminded of how he emasculated "The Good the Bad > and the Ugly" on the first Film Music album. Yeah, I suppose expectations can ruin albums, even if they are genuinely good, as I think Big Gundown is. My expectations of Spy Vs Spy weren't exactly matched by what I got, but I've grown to like it (at least more than I did when I first heard it). My tip for the Big Gundown - don't listen as if it has to be something, it's really just Zorn playing around with the music, and if you read the liner notes, Zorn says something like how he didn't want to touch Morricone's music, it was too perfect already. I guess he's just having fun with it. By the way, does anyone know where "Milano Odea" comes from? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Martin Schmitz-Ohrndorf <ohrndorf@zippel.de> Subject: New Masada output Date: 12 Mar 1998 14:11:40 +0100 I don't know, maybe this news is already known. There is a new Masada CD announced for Mar 17, 1998. It will be named "Circle Maker" and features Marc Ribot, Joey Baron, Cyro Babtista, Greg Cohen, Mark Feldman and Erik Friedlander. It'll contain 29 tracks from the MASADA songbook and I am sure it will be great. So this is really great news for all the fans around. I'm not sure about the label, as the tzadik homepage doesn't mention it. I hope it's not on DIW. Guess why! Information (track listing etc.) can be found at http://205.186.189.2/cg/AMG.exe?sql=A341776. Martin Schmitz-Ohrndorf ohrndorf@zippel.de - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re[2]: Big Gundown Date: 12 Mar 1998 13:22:39 UT Big Gundown was one of the first Zorn albums I ever heard (after Naked City) and is still one of my all time favorites. Musically some of the stuff he does is really brilliant and, as usual, he's got a super group of players. I look at this like the Bacharach or Gainsbourg tributes, where there's a song idea and it's mutated, while still paying homage to the original. If you want the true Morricone (music and sound), you need to buy the soundtracks, cuz it doesn't sound much like the originals at all, from the stuff I could compare. Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be> Subject: Re: Big Gundown Date: 12 Mar 1998 14:48:07 +0100 > I guess he's just having fun with it. By the way, does anyone know where > "Milano Odea" comes from? It must come from "Milano odia: la polizia non puo sparare", an Italian Crime-Movie by Umberto Lenzi (1974). US-titles: Almost Human The Kidnap of Mary Lou YVes - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: More Great Jewish Music Date: 12 Mar 1998 21:20:59 UT I was wondering who might be next in the Great Jewish Music cover album series. Neil Diamond? Sammi Davis, Jr.? But seriously, does anyone have a clue who might be next? I was sitting here secretly hoping that Raymond Scott was Jewish... Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: More Great Jewish Music Date: 12 Mar 1998 15:48:38 -0600 (CST) On Thu, 12 Mar 1998 peter_risser@cinfin.com wrote: > I was wondering who might be next in the Great Jewish Music cover album series. > Neil Diamond? Sammi Davis, Jr.? But seriously, does anyone have a clue who > might be next? Well, the world is waiting with bated breath to hear Y. Eye do Morton Feldman covers :-) - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert A. Pleshar" <rpleshar@midway.uchicago.edu> Subject: Re: More Great Jewish Music Date: 12 Mar 1998 16:26:58 -0600 (CST) I believe Raymond Scott was jewish. I can't remember what his "real" name was, though. I think his name was Harry and the last name was Warnov or something. Ralph - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert A. Pleshar" <rpleshar@midway.uchicago.edu> Subject: Re: More Great Jewish Music Date: 12 Mar 1998 16:26:58 -0600 (CST) I believe Raymond Scott was jewish. I can't remember what his "real" name was, though. I think his name was Harry and the last name was Warnov or something. Ralph - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Wierd early Zorn reference? Date: 12 Mar 1998 15:11:35 -0800 Patrice will love this one. I've got this LP by a guitarist named Eddie Senay, titled "Step by Step", released on the Sussex label in 1972. It's one of those funky instrumental soul records, like Roy Ayers, the Blackbyrds, etc, that were so ubiquitous in the '70s. I bought the record mainly for the cover photo of Mr. Senay in a too-cool-for-words red and white polyester hat, with matching shirt. It's not bad stuff, the kind of stuff that the Beastie Boys would probably love to sample. Now for the wierd part. The jacket says it's "Produced by ZORN PRODUCTIONS, Executive Producer: Clarence Avant". Also, all the tunes are composed by Senay, but published by "Interior Music/Zorn Music(BMI)". I'd guess it's recorded in New York City, just because of the sound and the look, but there's no credit on the label as to where it was recorded. Anybody got a clue to the connection to Zorn? I know it's not that common a name. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Pachora in Pittsburgh/shameful self-promotion Date: 12 Mar 1998 19:01:30 -0500 (EST) The by-all-accounts wonderful Pachora (Brad Shepik on guitar, Jim Black on drums, Chris Speed on reeds, Skuli Sverrisson on bass) will be playing at the Millvale Industrial Theatre on Sunday, March 15. Other acts on the bill include the by-all-accounts wonderful Anne LeBaron, Pittsburgh Third Stream (my word, not theirs) quartet Ensemble Duchamp, and Pittsburgh punk/improv trio Balls Ball (featuring, well, me, on bass). The Millvale Industrial Theatre is located on Rte. 28 between the 31st and 40th St. bridges in Millvale Industrial Park. Cover is $7. Discreet BYOB. Show starts at 8:00. Since my band will be the first one on, I encourage you to get there early. If you want to say hello, I'll be the guy with the bass. If you want to punch me, I'll be the guy with the guitar. The "shameful" part is not so much that I'm on the bill as that I'm not sure if there are others in the Pittsburgh area on this list. I'd appreciate it if anyone in the Pittsburgh area sent me a brief private email so I know I'm not wasting everyone's time. If I don't hear from anyone, I will not post about ontopic Pittsburgh-area events here in the future. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: concrete jazz Date: 13 Mar 1998 14:44:55 +1100 (EST) Unnh; i'm listening a Rahsaan Roland Kirk Lp couple days back; I look at the inner sleeve and there's a thumbnail of a record by a duet of Freddie Hubbard and Ilhan Mimoraglu (!). Err; on the Atlantic label: circa early '70s. From memory, title is "Sing me a song of songmy" (I think). Well, heck: but I'm intrigued. Anyone know anything about this? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "m. rizzi" <rizzi@netcom.com> Subject: Bible Launcher Date: 12 Mar 1998 20:22:43 -0800 (PST) Andy Marks, demi-God and Icon sez: > >While we're talking about the value of this release >on vinyl, what do you people think would be >the going price for a nice shiny, unopened copy of >the canceled Tzadik release Bible Launcher? On that topic, if anyone has a copy they would like to sell at non-kollektor-scum prices, please let me know. I'd like to donate a copy to the music library at the local radio station. cheers, mike rizzi rizzi@netcom.com -------------------------------------- www.browbeat.com "Another nerd with a soulpatch" -------- browbeat magazine, po box 11124, oakland, ca 94611-1124 ------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: Pachora in Pittsburgh/shameful self-promotion Date: 12 Mar 1998 20:52:29 -0800 -----Original Message----- If you want to say hello, I'll be >the guy with the bass. If you want to punch me, I'll be the guy with the >guitar. And if I want to kiss you? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jesse Simon <umsimo10@cc.UManitoba.CA> Subject: Re: Wierd early Zorn reference? Date: 13 Mar 1998 01:30:43 Dave Trenkel wrote: >Now for the wierd part. The jacket says it's "Produced by ZORN PRODUCTIONS, >Executive Producer: Clarence Avant". Also, all the tunes are composed by >Senay, but published by "Interior Music/Zorn Music(BMI)". I'd guess it's >recorded in New York City, just because of the sound and the look, but >there's no credit on the label as to where it was recorded. Anybody got a >clue to the connection to Zorn? I know it's not that common a name. "Zorn" is german for wrath / anger. That could be where the name comes from. Or not. jesse - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com> Subject: Re: Wierd early Zorn reference? Date: 12 Mar 1998 23:55:13 -0800 (PST) On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, Jesse Simon wrote: > "Zorn" is german for wrath / anger. That could be where the name comes from. > > Or not. interestingly enough, "zorn" is used as lapine ("destroyed, murdered; denotes a catasrophe") in Richard Adams' "Watership Down". hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: flamerik@best.ms.philips.com Subject: Mimoraglu Date: 13 Mar 1998 09:37:14 +0100 > Unnh; i'm listening a Rahsaan Roland Kirk Lp couple days back; I look at > the inner sleeve and there's a thumbnail of a record by a duet of Freddie > Hubbard and Ilhan Mimoraglu (!). Err; on the Atlantic label: circa early > '70s. From memory, title is "Sing me a song of songmy" (I think). > > Well, heck: but I'm intrigued. Anyone know anything about this? Can anyone say anything about Ilhan Mimoraglu? I've been listening to some extremely brilliant electro-acoustic music lately (notable Bernard Parmegiani and Pierre Henry), and I remember his name being mentioned in this area... Any comments on Parmegiani and Henry are appreciated as well. Also, on what label was the Ground Zero album "Revolutionary Pekinese Opera" releases, and is it still available? Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice <gda@pingnet.li> Subject: the chromatic persuaders Date: 13 Mar 1998 11:35:54 +0000 i read about the following new cd release in a swiss newspaper a few days ago. thought some of you might be interested. the chromatic persuaders - (catalgoue number: tscr9612) the tracks are written by pianist neal kirkwood mark feldman plays violin unfortunately there is no title or label given. but i'm sure i could find out. patRice - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andy Marks" <Andy.Marks@mts.com> Subject: Re: Bible Launcher Date: 13 Mar 1998 07:11:51 -0500 > >While we're talking about the value of this release > >on vinyl, what do you people think would be > >the going price for a nice shiny, unopened copy of > >the canceled Tzadik release Bible Launcher? > > On that topic, if anyone has a copy they > would like to sell at non-kollektor-scum > prices, please let me know. I'd like to > donate a copy to the music library at the > local radio station. I think someone posted here awhile ago another label besides Tzadik that was releasing this. Don't remember which label it was though. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: heesen@philo.uva.nl (Berrie Heesen) Subject: Zorn Film Adam Date: 13 Mar 1998 13:31:28 +0100 (MET) Hi I just noticed next weekend in amsterdam, smallest of metropoles, a John Zorn weekend =46our series of movies with John Zorn's music on friday 20 and saturday 21 March 1998. It will happen in De Balie. Leidseplein. After all these messages about nice events in the States I hope someone else will now be happy. By the way, if you happen to be in London or Paris you can just come over. According to Tarantino you should not miss the Filmmuseum. Ciao Berrie esen manager Journal 100 Department of Humanities, philosophy section Nieuwe Doelenstraat 15 1012 CP Amsterdam The Netherlands T: +31 20 525 4526 or 20 6165369 http://www.xs4all.nl/~krant100/index.html Homepage Journal 100: European children think together Homepage Europese kinderfilosofiekrant 100 & kinderfilosofie I think the best Portuguese idea is the 'world'. The world is Portuguese, because we know the world in Portuguese. Andr=E9 Costa, 8 years old. In Journal 100 number 4 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be> Subject: Re: Bible Launcher Date: 13 Mar 1998 13:57:09 +0100 >> >While we're talking about the value of this release >> >on vinyl, what do you people think would be >> >the going price for a nice shiny, unopened copy of >> >the canceled Tzadik release Bible Launcher? >> >> On that topic, if anyone has a copy they >> would like to sell at non-kollektor-scum >> prices, please let me know. I'd like to >> donate a copy to the music library at the >> local radio station. > > I think someone posted here awhile ago another label > besides Tzadik that was releasing this. Don't remember > which label it was though. It is Radical House Records RH 0015 , there's a website at http://www.radhs.com/label.html (I don't know how reliable their information is, since they mention a Bible Launcher II on Tzadik in August'97) YVes - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: the chromatic persuaders Date: 13 Mar 1998 07:18:38 -0500 patRice wrote: > > i read about the following new cd release in a swiss newspaper a few > days ago. > thought some of you might be interested. > > the chromatic persuaders - (catalgoue number: tscr9612) > the tracks are written by pianist neal kirkwood > mark feldman plays violin > > unfortunately there is no title or label given. but i'm sure i could > find out. > > patRice > > - This was released a while ago on Konnex. Perhaps a reissue?? -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: patRice <gda@pingnet.li> Subject: Re: Bible Launcher Date: 13 Mar 1998 15:21:43 +0000 Andy Marks wrote: > On that topic, if anyone has a copy they > > would like to sell at non-kollektor-scum > > prices, please let me know. I'd like to > > donate a copy to the music library at the > > local radio station. > > I think someone posted here awhile ago another label > besides Tzadik that was releasing this. Don't remember > which label it was though. > > - as far as i remember, it was a label called "radical house" patRice - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mark2u <Mark2u@aol.com> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #258 Date: 13 Mar 1998 09:22:24 EST In a message dated 3/12/98 4:29:39 PM, you wrote: >Did anyone out there get an FM recording of the Masada String Trio >and/or the Andy Statman program? I have lots to trade. Yes. I got it on DAT and would be willing to trade copies. I also have the New Sounds Live performance of the Lounge Lizards from around 1993. Mark Stevens - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Mimoraglu Date: 13 Mar 1998 09:54:13 -0500 >>>>> "Frankco" == flamerik <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> writes: Frankco> Also, on what label was the Ground Zero album Frankco> "Revolutionary Pekinese Opera" releases, and is it still Frankco> available? It's on recommended (ReR), and should still be relatively easily available. Check Wayside (http://members.aol.com/Cuneiform2/cuneiform.html) if you don't have another source. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re:Mimoraglu Date: 13 Mar 1998 15:25:28 UT Ilhan Mimoraglu RULES. He is, in my opinion, one of the best tape manipulators on the planet, right up there with Henry, and better than Ussachevsky. I got into him when I DJed at a college radio station. Unfortunately, I've been searching for his stuff and have found none of it on the web. Another fantastic artist in this vein is Noah Creshevsky, but you don't see his stuff anywhere except on Opus One releases. Peter ____________________Reply Separator____________________ Author: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Unnh; i'm listening a Rahsaan Roland Kirk Lp couple days back; I look at > the inner sleeve and there's a thumbnail of a record by a duet of Freddie > Hubbard and Ilhan Mimoraglu (!). Err; on the Atlantic label: circa early > '70s. From memory, title is "Sing me a song of songmy" (I think). > > Well, heck: but I'm intrigued. Anyone know anything about this? Can anyone say anything about Ilhan Mimoraglu? I've been listening to some extremely brilliant electro-acoustic music lately (notable Bernard Parmegiani and Pierre Henry), and I remember his name being mentioned in this area... Any comments on Parmegiani and Henry are appreciated as well. Also, on what label was the Ground Zero album "Revolutionary Pekinese Opera" releases, and is it still available? Frankco. - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Res.Ass.N.Emrah Aydinonat" <N.Emrah.Aydinonat@dialup.ankara.edu.tr> Subject: Re:Mimoraglu Date: 13 Mar 1998 18:46:40 -0600 (CST) Is this guy Turkish? If yes his name must me "Mimaroglu". Emrah - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Tapes... Date: 13 Mar 1998 11:35:42 -0600 Ok, I apologise first of for this grovel. It's a grovel, yes, so if you don't like it, I'm sorry and you can delete the message. Now that I'm off to such a good start... Basically I don't have any of the kinds of tapes that I really want these days, therefore no trading ability. I don't suppose anyone would be interested in Phish tapes because I have quite a lot of those. Other than that, I have a handful of MMW tapes that are all pretty good. If anyone's interested in either of those drop me an email. Otherwise, Is there any kind soul who would be willing to dub a few tapes if I sent blanks and an SASE? I need to start building a collection so I can trade and avoid this sort of thing in the future. If so, I would be ever greatful. (BTW, I'm interested in Frisell, Horvitz, Zorn, and all those guys.) Please respond to me, not the list. One of these is bad enough. Thanks, Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Sean Terwilliger" <seanter@ix.netcom.com> Subject: stone tiger Date: 13 Mar 1998 12:52:01 -0500 Does anyone know who the drummer in Stone Tiger was? Man, what a phenomonal band. are there any demo's floating around? -Sean - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andrew R. Miller" <motion@pop.nb.sympatico.ca> Subject: scads scores Date: 13 Mar 1998 14:40:45 +0000 Dear Z-List, Does anyone out there know how I can buy/rent parts or scores (ie: sheet music) for Zorn's music? Much appreciated, Andrew Miller - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re: Mimoraglu Date: 13 Mar 1998 17:09:10 -0500 flamerik@best.ms.philips.com wrote: > Can anyone say anything about Ilhan Mimoraglu? I've been listening to some > extremely brilliant electro-acoustic music lately (notable Bernard Parmegiani > and Pierre Henry), and I remember his name being mentioned in this area... > Any comments on Parmegiani and Henry are appreciated as well. Could this be the same person who worked for Atlantic Records in the 70's and , incidently, produced Sonny Sharrock's Paradise LP????? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Mimoraglu Date: 13 Mar 1998 16:05:34 -0600 (CST) On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, Rich Williams wrote: > Could this be the same person who worked for Atlantic Records in the > 70's and , incidently, produced Sonny Sharrock's Paradise LP????? Yup, it is. His "Wings of the Delerious Demon" on the Finnadar label (which, if I recall, he ran)blew my ears open in the 70s. - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re: stone tiger Date: 13 Mar 1998 17:18:50 -0500 Sean Terwilliger wrote: > > Does anyone know who the drummer in Stone Tiger was? Man, what a phenomonal > band. are there any demo's floating around? They started out with Mike Clark(Brand X, Mingus Dynasty etc...). then Dougie Bowne(Lounge Lizards....). Anything from 82 is Clark, Bowne joined in early 83,I believe. There are Demo's from 83, about 20 minutes worth. Oh yeah... and right near the end of the band's existence they added a keyboard player; Anton Sanko. Rich - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jason J. Tar" <tarjason@pilot.msu.edu> Subject: FT: Zorn/Praxis Date: 13 Mar 1998 17:17:58 -0500 Hello, Was hoping to trade the following: Spillane, Torture Garden, and Cobra (Tokyo Operations). Plus the local used shop has Sacrifist and Metatron (the original versions) used that I could pick up for somebody if they need them. Hoping to trade for some noisier Zorn works or David Shea works. Thanks. BTW--Anybody out there who could supply me with a review of David Shea's works? I have his collaboration with DJ Grazhoppa and Zorn's _Elegy_ which features him and quite like both of them. Was wondering which to pick up first. Thanks. (Also any recommendations for other turntable work in the vein of Otomo Yoshihide that anyone knows of would be appreciated.) --- Peace Hugs and Unity, Jason J. Tar Vampire Rodent Productions http://pilot.msu.edu/user/tarjason/VRodents.htm Featuring: Vampire Rodents, Ether Bunny, and Dilate. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org> Subject: Re: FT: Zorn/Praxis Date: 13 Mar 1998 17:37:13 -0500 (EST) >Hoping to trade for some noisier Zorn works or David Shea works. Thanks. Noiser than Torture Garden? | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | | | | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | | | | UMD school of music | | | | m-e-t-a-t-r-o-n p-r-e-s-s | | | http://www.artswire.org/comma | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CuneiWay <CuneiWay@aol.com> Subject: Ground Zero Date: 13 Mar 1998 17:36:52 EST Frankco [flamerik@best.ms.philips.com] wrote: >Also, on what label was the Ground Zero album "Revolutionary Pekinese Opera" >releases, and is it still available? I don't know what label released the original version, but the slightly redone version [titled "Revolutionary Pekinese Opera ver. 1.28"] was released a couple of years ago by ReR [ReR GZ1], IS still in print & shouldn't be too hard to find. Steve F. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: CuneiWay <CuneiWay@aol.com> Subject: stone tiger Date: 13 Mar 1998 17:40:59 EST "Sean Terwilliger" <seanter@ix.netcom.com> wrote: >Does anyone know who the drummer in Stone Tiger was? Man, what a phenomonal >band. are there any demo's floating around? I have it listed on a live tape as "D. Bown". Did they ever DO anything? I had always assumed that they were a one or two gig band only. How do you know them? [you probably have the same live tape I do!] Steve F. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jason J. Tar" <tarjason@pilot.msu.edu> Subject: Re: FT: Zorn/Praxis Date: 13 Mar 1998 19:33:47 -0500 At 05:37 PM 3/13/98 -0500, Matthew Ross Davis wrote: >>Hoping to trade for some noisier Zorn works or David Shea works. Thanks. > >Noiser than Torture Garden? > Well no. Just that I was wanting to get Black Box in order to have Leng Tch'e, and since that comes with Torture Garden I thought it wise to get rid of my cd of it first. JJTar - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9mi?= Bissonnette <rbisson@courrier.usherb.ca> Subject: Sharrock Tribute / Dying Ground Date: 14 Mar 1998 00:38:37 -0500 =46ound this recently at http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/, in Derek Bailey's "Forthcoming Releases" section: <<Possible track on Sonny Sharrock tribute album; still to be recorded.>> Sounds pretty interesting; has anybody here gotten wind of this project at any time? I'd really like to know more details (musicians involved, the project's progress if it's still up... release date??). Secondly, the Eyvind Kang/Kato Hideki/Calvin Weston -Dying Ground CD (Avant 076) was released recently (or will be on tuesday). Has anybody gotten ahold of it already? Comments and/or reviews would be appreciated. Thanks, Bruno R=E9mi Bissonnette Ph.D. Professeur titulaire =46acult=E9 d'=C9ducation physique et sportive Universit=E9 de Sherbrooke Sherbrooke, Qu=E9bec J1K 2R1 =20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re: Sharrock Tribute CD Date: 14 Mar 1998 01:24:00 +0000 R=E9mi Bissonnette wrote: >=20 > Found this recently at http://www.shef.ac.uk/misc/rec/ps/efi/, in Derek > Bailey's "Forthcoming Releases" section: >=20 > <<Possible track on Sonny Sharrock tribute album; still to be recorded.= >> >=20 > Sounds pretty interesting; has anybody here gotten wind of this project= at > any time? I'd really like to know more details (musicians involved, t Last I heard, Derek, Henry Kaiser, and E# were on board, and they were hoping to hear from several more. contact address is; =20 Rob DeNunzio Hi-Fi Mundo =20 www.teleport.com/~hifim hifim@teleport.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: matthew.colonnese@yale.edu (Matthew Colonnese) Subject: Dying Ground/Maneri Date: 14 Mar 1998 02:07:26 -0500 (EST) >Secondly, the Eyvind Kang/Kato Hideki/Calvin Weston -Dying Ground CD (Avant >076) was released recently (or will be on tuesday). Has anybody gotten >ahold of it already? Comments and/or reviews would be appreciated. Not a bad cd, but nearly as inventive as I had hoped given the folks involved. Basically this is their Painkiller tribute as near as I can tell. In fact it's often damn hard to tell Eyvind's violin from a sax. The final track is a real monster rocker, pounding and speedy. Can't get over the feeling I could get better stuff from someone who does this sort of thing for a living though. The Avant to get, IMHO, is the Joe Maneri _Panoits9_, a rerelease of his early 60s work. Roots of Masada, very definately here. Joe Maneri plays clarinet, Greek style clarinet, in a jazz setting 4tet. Very pretty, snaking melodies. Given the sound quality it almost sounds like an ethnographic recording. I can't think of anything more to say 'cept get it, it's great. Actually, I think it required that one mentions that Joe Maneri plays microtonally. So there. I wouldn't have know if I hadn't been told. It just sound completely natural. matt ------ "Finally, a thing-a-ma-giggy that would bring people together...even if it kept them apart, spatially." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2 <JonAbbey2@aol.com> Subject: Re: Dying Ground/Maneri Date: 14 Mar 1998 03:13:06 EST In a message dated 3/14/98 2:09:06 AM, matthew.colonnese@yale.edu wrote: <<The Avant to get, IMHO, is the Joe Maneri _Panoits9_, a rerelease of his early 60s work. Roots of Masada, very definately here. Joe Maneri plays clarinet, Greek style clarinet, in a jazz setting 4tet. Very pretty, snaking melodies. Given the sound quality it almost sounds like an ethnographic recording. I can't think of anything more to say 'cept get it, it's great.>> I'd like to disagree somewhat with this assessment. While the Maneri record is historically important, many of his more recent records are far more compelling if you ask me. Try Get Ready To Receive Yourself (Leo) or Three Men Walking (ECM). After two listens to it, I'd say the Avant record is for fans and historians. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leon lee <llee15@ccsf.cc.ca.us> Subject: seven souls/western lands Date: 14 Mar 1998 00:33:02 -0800 (PST) hi everyone, i've just bought these a few days ago and have been listening to them quite frequently. quite frankly, i couldn't really get into it. the music is (for the most part) good -- always great sounds and beats. i couldn't get into the burroughs readings. there is no real unfolding ideas (ie. Hakim Bey T.A.Z.) and i kept wanting the voice to go away. i know the whole concept of the albums was to feature burroughs, but it sounds as if he is augmented and yet a distraction and dare i say, a little irritating. i was hoping that if 'seven souls' featured burroughs, that 'road...' was a mostly instrumental album -- not at all. i'm trying to immerse myself in it but i'm not sure i want to try for much longer. anyone else? btw -- bought William Parker's Little Huey Creative Music Orchestra - Sunrise in the tone world. *** beautiful beautiful music, although i wish it was a studio recording. any planned? also, just bought Ornette's 'Of Human Feelings' on vinyl for $6; doubling up on the formats, you know, just in case of some freak accident, or if cd's don't last forever. leon disclaimer:it's all blue. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: IOUaLive1 <IOUaLive1@aol.com> Subject: Re: stone tiger Date: 14 Mar 1998 06:46:03 EST In a message dated 98-03-13 12:55:52 EST, seanter@ix.netcom.com writes: > > Does anyone know who the drummer in Stone Tiger was? Man, what a phenomonal > band. are there any demo's floating around? > > -Sean > Stone Tiger featured Mike Clark on drums at first, then later it was Dougie Bowne. In case anyone doesnt know, the rest of the band was Bill Frisell on gutiar and one of my favorite musicians on the planet, Percy Jones on bass. They were around from 1982- 1984, they didnt play a whole lot, but it was more than one or two gigs. They did record some demos, but couldnt get any label interest, and subsequently disbanded. What a shame, there was a lot of potential there. Jody McAllister - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com> Subject: Re: seven souls/western lands Date: 14 Mar 1998 08:34:27 -0500 leon lee wrote: > snip > > btw -- bought William Parker's Little Huey Creative Music Orchestra - > Sunrise in the tone world. *** beautiful beautiful music, although i > wish > it was a studio recording. any planned? I'm not sure if any studio recordings are planned, but there is another cd of Little Huey. Too bad it's out of print, the self released "Flowers grow in my room." Little Huey is one awesome band, very much in the mode of Jemeel Moondoc's unrecorded Jus Grew, of which Parker was a member. BTW, there is a connection here for Zorn folks, Parker of course is on some Zorn recordings. Also, Parker's In Order To Survive group is every bit as strong as Little Huey, in fact in some ways his ideas are clearer in the small group settings. Another fine project that you can get on cd is Other Diemensions in Music, with Parker, Daniel Carter, and Roy Campbell. Carter and Campbell are both deserving of wider attention. Parker also has an amazing duet cd with Joe Morris, Invisible Weave. Alan > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Zorn <gking@win.bright.net> Subject: zorn reviews Date: 14 Mar 1998 11:31:47 -0800 I am putting up a zorn page in which i hope to have fans reviews of his work. If anyone would be willing to write some please email me. also, if anyone has any movies which feature zorn's music i am highly interested . - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: matthew.colonnese@yale.edu (Matthew Colonnese) Subject: Re: Maneri Date: 14 Mar 1998 14:38:15 -0500 (EST) ><<The Avant to get, IMHO, is the Joe Maneri _Panoits9_, >I'd like to disagree somewhat with this assessment. While the Maneri record is >historically important, many of his more recent records are far more >compelling if you ask me. Try Get Ready To Receive Yourself (Leo) or Three Men >Walking (ECM). Well, I'd like to agree with this assessment. _Three Men Walking_ is a great disk; the band is even better live. I haven't heard much of his other recent stuff, but I'm dying to. I'm still sad he doesn't play the clarinet as much these days though, which makes _Panoits9_ extremely enjoyable. But then put clarinet and mediteranean melodies on the same disk and I'm hooked. Certainly the music on _Panoits9_ and _Three men..._ has little in common (at least in overall sound), which is why I more easily recomend it to Masada fans, than Maneri fans. ------ "Finally, a thing-a-ma-giggy that would bring people together...even if it kept them apart, spatially." - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Pennsylvania Date: 14 Mar 1998 15:52:16 -0800 Is Pere Ubu's new PENNSYLVANIA as great as THE WIRE magazine says it is in the March issue? It's hard to trust a magazine that says Frisell's GONE, JUST LIKE A TRAIN is "Totally rocking. As in rocking chair." Eh? Keith - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Doug McKay" <mckay003@maroon.tc.umn.edu> Subject: The Big Gundown Date: 14 Mar 1998 18:37:12 Well, I've grown into it, as I suspected I would. I guess Zorn must be taken as he's given and not pushed into some pre-determined category. If you haven't see "Once Upon a Time in the West" you gotta see it. "Elegaic" is what comes to mind. Powerful and wonderful music by Morricone. Henry Fonda, Jason Robards, Charles Bronson, Claudia Cardinale, and a cool intro scene with Jack Elam, Woody Strode and (who's the other killer?). Doug McKay Old West Society of Minnesota - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Parker/Prevost Date: 14 Mar 1998 21:13:08 -0500 I just picked up the Evan Parker and Eddie Prevost's 2-CD 'Most Materiall' on Matchless and let me tell you, this album is the BOMB! I favor the more subtle and soft Disc A on which Prevost utilizes a variety of bowed cymblals, gongs, etc. as opposed to Disc B where the kit is more prevalent. ...and Evan Parker is just so amazing. Both of these guys are absolutely incredible so if you have any interest in either of them, I highly recommend you pick this one up! Liner notes by Christian Wolff. I also got Ernst Reijseger's solo cello 'Colla Parte' on Winter & Winter and once I figured out how to get the CD out without scraching or breaking it, I really enjoyed it. A very nice disc. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: edechena@thomas.butler.edu (Dechenaux Emmanuel) Subject: Naked city Date: 14 Mar 1998 23:24:06 -0500 (EST) You're all going to kill me but I just got "Naked city". I just heard it for the first time in my life, and so far I must say that it was great. I'm a big fan of Masada. I know the people that surround Zorn better than him actually. I am dedicated to Bill Frisell. Does anybody know what Marc Ribot is doing these last times ? You guys should try the last Marc Ducret "Details". This record is one of the greatest of all times... Ducret sounds kinda like Frisell on Big Satan. have you heard of that ? See ya M_base - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Re: exiles? Date: 15 Mar 1998 01:11:15 -0500 (EST) Off the topic but I found a $4 used copy of a CD on Leo by a duo called Exiles (greg Mills and Jay Zelenka I think). There are some pretty cool roscoe mitchell-like-sax and piano duets, then some other stuff using 'ethnic' instruments and pitter-pattering percussion thingies. It's not earth shatteringly great, but has anyone heard these names? Will York - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque <Dgasque@aol.com> Subject: Re: Naked city Date: 15 Mar 1998 04:09:41 EST In a message dated 98-03-14 23:25:56 EST, you (edechena@thomas.butler.edu) wrote: << You're all going to kill me but I just got "Naked city". I just heard it for the first time in my life, and so far I must say that it was great. >> No, but if you had said you got a Wynton Marsalis CD and that it was great... np: Sergey Kuryokhin- Ways of Freedom =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chasinthetrane@juno.com (Jamie F Graves) Subject: Evil Ska Date: 15 Mar 1998 14:42:43 -0500 >hey.. im just droppin a tip... but the first album by the Blue Meanies is full >of EVIL SKA and klezmer... and their new album is full of EVIL SKA and blast >beats <ie Nekkid Citee/ Painkiller>.... cool shite.. Maybe it's Scott Evil from Austin Powers' Ska Band. Scott: Well I was thinking of becoming a musician... Dr. Evil: An evil musician? Scott: You know, maybe start a ska band... Dr. Evil: An evil ska band? Jamie _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Sonny Sharrock tribute Date: 15 Mar 1998 22:04:49 -0500 I asked both Elliott Sharp and Henry Kaiser for info regarding the Sonny Sharrock tribute that was talked about here and this is what they had to say. Elliott Sharp: "the sonny sharrock tribute is in the works - i'll do Blind Willie as a layered piece with acoustic and electric guitars. should be out late this spring." Henry Kaiser: "Yes to Sonny tribute. All Sonny tunes + one derek talking and playing about Sonny piece. search for Hi-Fi Mundo on the net. those are the guys doing the comp. I did THE ECHOS with Leo Smith & Greg Goodman" -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Pachora in Pittsburgh Date: 16 Mar 1998 00:54:01 -0500 (EST) Just got back from my show with these guys and I was absolutely blown away. All four band members played extremely well (although Chris Speed seemed to be having some embouchure problems). Brad Shepik's bouzouki (?) playing sounded very John McLaughlin-influenced at points. Jim Black was just jaw-droppingly wonderful, as ever. Is there a better drummer around these days? Particularly impressive was that they played this wonderful set cramped into the foyer of the venue with a small but enthusiastic audience, because the stage was ridiculously cold. If you get a chance to catch these guys, do not pass it up. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: flamerik@best.ms.philips.com Subject: Mimaroglu Date: 16 Mar 1998 09:03:25 +0100 Peter Risser wrote: > Ilhan Mimoraglu RULES. He is, in my opinion, one of the best tape manipulators > on the planet, right up there with Henry, and better than Ussachevsky. I got > into him when I DJed at a college radio station. Unfortunately, I've been > searching for his stuff and have found none of it on the web. > > Another fantastic artist in this vein is Noah Creshevsky, but you don't see his > stuff anywhere except on Opus One releases. After these encouraging words, can you recommend any work by Mimaroglu? Also, the stuff I've heard by Parmegiani is AMAZING. I have a few pieces from a work called "Dedans-Dehors", which are mind-blowing. But his stuff seems hard to track down. I looked in a couple of books on 20th century music at the local library, but none listed Parmegiani. I've also been listening to a bit of Luigi Nono ("Como Una Ola De Fuerza Y Luz") and Giacinto Scelsi ("Quattro Piezze Per Orchestre"). So if anyone has any recommendations in that area, I'd appreciate it. Plus, does anyone know anything about Maderna, Berioz, Dutellieux, Mumma,...? Thanks, Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chad edwards <chadhead@rocketmail.com> Subject: Rodd Keith Date: 16 Mar 1998 12:09:25 -0800 (PST) Is anyone familiar with the ROD KEITH: I DIED TODAY release on TZADIK. It sounds interesting, but I was hoping someone could summerize it for me before I buy it. Also what is implied by TZADIK's use of the term "lunatic fringe"? Chad. _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Date: 16 Mar 1998 21:22:35 +0100 (MEZ) JOHN ZORN "The Circle Maker" (Tzadik) 2xcd 21.00 Wow! Essentially part two to Zorn's wonderful "Bar Kohkba." Let's go with the obi: "The first cd, "Issachar," showcases the exciting Masada String Trio and features the telepathic interplay of Mark Feldman, Erik Friedlander and Greg Cohen. The second cd, "Zevulum," expands the trio into a sextet with Marc Ribot, Cyro Baptista and Joey Baron. Passion and virtuosic fireworks abound in this historic set of New Jewish Music at its best." is this already out????????? any reviews...after the great Angelus Novus and the even greater Filmworks 8....another highlight??? BJOERN - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Circle Maker Date: 16 Mar 1998 14:27:37 -0600 At 2:22 PM -0600 3/16/98, BJOERN wrote: >JOHN ZORN "The Circle Maker" (Tzadik) 2xcd 21.00 >... >is this already out????????? Comes out in the USA tomorrow 3/17. Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: Pachora in Pittsburgh Date: 16 Mar 1998 15:47:36 -0500 (EST) > Just got back from my show with these guys and I was absolutely blown > away. All four band members played extremely well (although Chris Speed > seemed to be having some embouchure problems). Brad Shepik's bouzouki (?) > playing sounded very John McLaughlin-influenced at points. Jim Black was > just jaw-droppingly wonderful, as ever. Is there a better drummer around > these days? Particularly impressive was that they played this wonderful My curiosoty is piqued...i've heard tales of this ledgendary Jim Black guy, and any band with a bouzouki player needs to be heard, i think. What do they sound like? Any amazing albums out? -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: C E DANGELO <cappyd@UVic.CA> Subject: Kletka Red Date: 16 Mar 1998 13:22:04 -0800 (PST) This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. Send mail to mime@docserver.cac.washington.edu for more info. ---1905785489-1907979515-888395752=:67720 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII Content-ID: <Pine.A41.3.96.980304124957.29840C@unix3.UVic.CA> I can't stop listening to Hijacking. Have these three done anything else together? Do they tour? Any recommendations on other klezmer-punk albums? -cappyd at the edge of the world ---1905785489-1907979515-888395752=:67720-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: Rodd Keith Date: 16 Mar 1998 16:38:47 -0500 ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: chad edwards <chadhead@rocketmail.com> at SMTP-for-MSSM Is anyone familiar with the ROD KEITH: I DIED TODAY release on TZADIK. It sounds interesting, but I was hoping someone could summerize it for me before I buy it. It's a good bit of fun, quite different from anything else you're likely to find around. Consists of Keith's music for lyrics that folks sent in (the old 'send in your lyrics, we'll set 'em to music and make you a star' scam), some of the absolute worst lyrics (in a fun sense) you'll ever hear. The music ranges across several styles and is, once in a while, actually pretty catchy. Worth getting. Also what is implied by TZADIK's use of the term "lunatic fringe"? I've wondered a bit about that myself. For example, why is Butler's album classified herein? What's so "lunatic" about him? Zorn didn't issue Harry Partch under this designation; I kind of wonder how Butler feels about it. For that matter, how did Jon escape being grouped here? Brian Olewnick _________________________________________________________ DO YOU YAHOO!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gauthier Michelle A <7mag2@qlink.queensu.ca> Subject: Re: Kletka Red Date: 16 Mar 1998 18:27:51 -0500 (EST) Hey. Actually they ARE playing the Victoriaville festival in Quebec!!!!!! Go check it out! May 14-18, 1998. m. On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, C E DANGELO wrote: > I can't stop listening to Hijacking. Have these three done anything else > together? Do they tour? Any recommendations on other klezmer-punk albums? > > -cappyd at the edge of the world > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: ESP kaput? Date: 16 Mar 1998 18:44:32 -0500 I was told today that the word on the street is that the entire CD catalogue of ESP is going out of print very shortly and reissues unlikely (especially in the near future). Has anybody else heard this same thing?? Also, speaking of ESP... If anyone has any/both of those two very rare ESP LP's by Don Pullen and Milford Graves and wouldn't mind taping them for me, please get in touch! Thanks. Psyched for Circle Maker tomorrow!!! -Tom Pratt P.S. I still have a couple disc left for sale ($10 a pop)... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yin Pin <yinpin@pop6.jaring.my> Subject: Re: ESP kaput? Date: 17 Mar 1998 09:33:14 +0000 theres good news however that the ESP back catalog are now being licensed by an italian label, Get Back for LP releases. surf yourself over to www.forcedexposure.com. -pin At 06:44 PM 3/16/98 -0500, Tom Pratt wrote: >I was told today that the word on the street is that the entire CD >catalogue of ESP is going out of print very shortly and reissues >unlikely (especially in the near future). Has anybody else heard this >same thing?? > >Also, speaking of ESP... If anyone has any/both of those two very rare >ESP LP's by Don Pullen and Milford Graves and wouldn't mind taping them >for me, please get in touch! Thanks. > >Psyched for Circle Maker tomorrow!!! > > -Tom Pratt > >P.S. I still have a couple disc left for sale ($10 a pop)... > >- > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: ESP kaput? Date: 16 Mar 1998 20:51:22 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Tom Pratt wrote: > I was told today that the word on the street is that the entire CD > catalogue of ESP is going out of print very shortly and reissues > unlikely (especially in the near future). Has anybody else heard this > same thing?? I had heard about a year ago that the Smithsonian was going to be acquiring the ESP catalog. (I believe the Bernard Stollman interview in _The Wire_ mentioned this.) If the above is true, could this just be a prelude to a Smithsonian reissue program (which would be very well done but very slow if their Folkways reissues are anything to go by)? Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Pachora in Pittsburgh Date: 16 Mar 1998 20:58:19 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, ia zha nah er vesen wrote: > My curiosoty is piqued...i've heard tales of this ledgendary Jim Black > guy, and any band with a bouzouki player needs to be heard, i think. I must shamefacedly report that I appear to have mistaken a saz for a bouzouki. > What do they sound like? In two words, their shtick is Balkan fusion. They're a jazz group using Eastern European melodies. The arrangements remind me vaguely of Mahavishnu Orchestra (lots of fast unisons), but it never comes off as masturbatory. > Any amazing albums out? I'm at this moment listening to their self-titled Knitting Factory Works album for the first time. It's nice, but doesn't live up to their live performance so far. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Circle Maker Date: 16 Mar 1998 21:00:30 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, BJOERN wrote: > is this already out????????? > any reviews...after the great Angelus Novus and the even greater > Filmworks 8....another highlight??? I like it a lot. It's a bit more lively than _Bar Kokhba_. Ribot's guitar sounds surfy at times. I imagine that anyone who expects to like this one will. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: The Odyssey Band Date: 16 Mar 1998 21:11:44 -0500 (EST) I picked up _Reunion_ by this group (James Blood Ulmer, Charlie Burnham, Warren Benbrow) on Knitting Factory Records today. The liner notes, written by Steve Dalachinsky in that kinda charming, kinda annoying Ralph-Gleason-on-acid style popular in the early 70's, state ". . . this band, some 15 years and 3 recordings later has come full circle." What has this trio recorded other than Ulmer's _Odyssey_ and the new one? Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: Mimaroglu and friends Date: 17 Mar 1998 14:01:05 +1100 (EST) On Mon, 16 Mar 1998 flamerik@best.ms.philips.com wrote: > After these encouraging words, can you recommend any work by Mimaroglu? Err: found some Mimaroglu onna old tape (off of that same LP I was asking about, "Sing Me A Song Of Songmy", as it happens). 'The Tomb of Edgar Allan Poe'; think this also made it to the "Electronic Music III" compilation on Turnabout. Its a great, wigged-out but sombre, destruction of some guy reading Mallarme's poem of the same name. Not so crazy about the intrusion of words which are actually recognizable as such towards the end, but this guy's play with sound is jaw-droppingly inventive. The other piece is 'Preludes For Electronic Tape': not quite so astonishing, but still plenty great. There's some actual instruments happening on this one: so maybe this is where Freddie Hubbard fits on. (Some guitar too: is that you, Sonny?) Another great Mimaroglu - best of the few I've heard - is 'Agony'. I've just located a copy of this at a local library: can dub copies, if anyone wants to go thru' that little drama. > I've also been listening to a bit of Luigi Nono ("Como Una Ola De Fuerza Y Luz") > and Giacinto Scelsi ("Quattro Piezze Per Orchestre"). So if anyone has any > recommendations in that area, I'd appreciate it. > Someone whose opinion I respect just gave me his highest possible endorsement for Scelsi. So, yeah: more info, please... > Plus, does anyone know anything about Maderna, Berioz, Dutellieux, Mumma,...? > Oh, and what about Tod Dockstader? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fran Bacon" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: ESP kaput? Date: 16 Mar 1998 19:01:14 PST >I was told today that the word on the street is that the entire CD >catalogue of ESP is going out of print very shortly and reissues >unlikely (especially in the near future). Has anybody else heard this >same thing?? To be specific, go to the "ESP" listing in the Forced Exposure site, and under Ayler's SPIRITUAL UNITY you will find the following: ZYX's license to reissue the ESP series has ended and the entire series of CDs is being deleted. We predict that much of the catalog will be completely unavailable by mid-'98, or even sooner (we are deleting titles from this site as they go out of stock). Please note that a partial quantity of our remaining stock has cut-out saw marks -- but not enought for us to consider lowering our price on remaining copies. The rights to the series have changed hands, rumored to be a Dutch jazz label. What their plans are for this material is unknown, but it's hard to imagine that anyone would go though the process of reissuing the entire catalog again anytime soon. Your opportunity to fill in any holes on this stuff is quickly diminshing. ESP was the quintessential American independent label in the 1960s, run by Bernard Stollman in NYC. They released 100+ albums, completely defining the black free-music explosion of the era; they later branched beyond into obscure European improvisation, the fringes of out-rock and folk, and other purely bizarre documentation. The label folded in 1976, but was resurrected for this CD reissue program in 1992-93 by the German dance music conglomerate ZYX. Content-wise, almost all of the titles in the 1000 numbering series are classics of their kind and come heavily recommended for those outside the scope. Get Back is reissuing at a very uncertain rate/quantity, so perhaps everyone should just take a deep breath and PANIC! PANIC PANIC PANIC PANIC PANIC PANIC PANIC! The Blue Note of marginalized subculture is going under for another seventeen years! Fuck! All newbies: buy! buy! buy! KSH ...who's ESP buying spree will for the next month incite a diet and make him hold the landlord off like Mingus with his rifle. Bring it on mutha... ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Saidel Eric J <ejs4839@usl.edu> Subject: Re: The Odyssey Band Date: 16 Mar 1998 23:09:03 -0600 (CST) > > I picked up _Reunion_ by this group (James Blood Ulmer, Charlie > Burnham, Warren Benbrow) on Knitting Factory Records today. The liner > notes, written by Steve Dalachinsky in that kinda charming, kinda annoying > Ralph-Gleason-on-acid style popular in the early 70's, state ". . . > this band, some 15 years and 3 recordings later has come full circle." > What has this trio recorded other than Ulmer's _Odyssey_ and the new one? > > Chris Hamilton > The only one I know of off the top of my head is _Part-Time_. I have it on Rough Trade, but I've seen it around on other labels. _Part- Time_ is basically Odyssey Live. Well worth picking up if you can find it. Benbow has played in other trios with Ulmer (and I think he's been playing with him a fair amount in recent years, although others on the list would know better than I do about this). Burham, also played with Ulmer on other albums (I think; I'm basing this on my remembered familiarity with him when _Odyssey- came out, but this was so long ago I wouldn't bet much on it). Oh wait. Here they are again. _Live at the Caravan of Dreams_ features the trio augmented by Amin Ali on bass (that's Rashied's son, fwiw). A couple of the tunes are on all three albums - "Little Red House" and "Are You Glad to be in America?". I would get _Part-Time_ before this one. Burham, also fwiw, went on to record with String Trio of NY. So, what's this new one like? I must admit, just the idea of it has me salivating. I'm just afraid it's like the watered down Ulmer I've been hearing of late (with the exception of his Ornette disc). - eric - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rohan James Parkes <marlowe@labyrinth.net.au> Subject: RE: Naked city Date: 17 Mar 1998 13:34:48 +1100 Mark Ducret appeared over here early last year with Bobby Previte's = Latin for Travellers. Previte described him as his "favourite musician = on the planet", as I recall. Apart from his performance, Ducret was = amazing for a number of reasons: firstly, because he played electric = guitar in bare feet, (which is definitely not recommended, given the = number of electrocutions that occur each year), and secondly because of = his Guitar Hero persona on stage, which is sort of ironic, given the = kind of non-standard sounds that emanate from his guitar. on the other = hand, Jerome Harris struck me as even more amazing, as he is the most = undemonstrative guitarist I have ever seen, but could effortlessly cover = all the weird stuff. You can here the results of the tour on the recently released "My Man in = Sydney" (Enja). Cheers, Rohan Parkes Jazz Coordinator 3-PBS FM Melbourne Australia http://www.vicnet.net.au/~pbsfm/jazz/default.html -----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, March 15, 1998 3:24 PM You're all going to kill me but I just got "Naked city". I just heard it for the first time in my life, and so far I must say that it was great. I'm a big fan of Masada. I know the people that surround Zorn better = than him actually. I am dedicated to Bill Frisell. Does anybody know what = Marc Ribot is doing these last times ? You guys should try the last Marc = Ducret "Details". This record is one of the greatest of all times... Ducret sounds kinda like Frisell on Big Satan. have you heard of that ? See ya M_base - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: ESP kaput? Date: 17 Mar 1998 00:42:31 -0500 Not to worry: as someone else has noted, the ESP catalog has been purchased in its entirety by Smithsonian Folkways. They do plan to reissue it, with attention paid to sound and packaging details this time around. Hopefully they'll also pair things creatively - I definitely fall into the camp of longer playing time rather than fetishistic reproduction of original LPs on disc, unless I'm going to be getting that 30 minute CD dirt cheap. Speaking of which, I've been told by several who've bought them that the Get Back LP pressings are cheap crap knockoffs at jacked-up prices. One of the Aylers, in fact, is said to duplicate the sound of skips on the CD from which it was evidently mastered. Talk about your ultimate reversal of sources... Don't panic, and don't rush out to buy the vinyl unless you really want it. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: The Odyssey Band Date: 17 Mar 1998 00:49:43 -0500 Christopher Hamilton wrote: > What has this trio recorded other than Ulmer's _Odyssey_ and the new one? Nothing at all. But as a quartet with Amin Ali added on bass they recorded "Live at the Caravan of Dreams," released in 1986 on the Caravan of Dreams label. Currently residing in the "where the hell do I find THAT?" file. I imagine that was the third disc to which Dalachinsky was referring. And while the Odyssey Trio was fine with the extra bass end added, it wasn't a critical departure from "Odyssey," which is still one of the truly necessary jazz-type releases of the 1980s. How does the new one rate? Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com> Subject: Re: ESP kaput? Date: 16 Mar 1998 22:02:15 -0800 (PST) On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Steve Smith wrote: > longer playing time rather than fetishistic reproduction of original LPs on > disc, unless I'm going to be getting that 30 minute CD dirt cheap. don't know what the prices are like in NY, but out here Amoeba sells the ZYX re-issue CDs for US$10! there's no way the Smithsonians are going to be that cheap. and the sound quality isn't too shabby. i was really happy to finally get "NY Eye and Ear Control" on CD. hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: The Odyssey Band Date: 17 Mar 1998 02:02:01 -0500 Steve Smith wrote: > Christopher Hamilton wrote: > > > What has this trio recorded other than Ulmer's _Odyssey_ and the new one? > > Nothing at all. But as a quartet with Amin Ali added on bass they recorded > "Live at the Caravan of Dreams," released in 1986 on the Caravan of Dreams > label. Oy. As Eric Saidel already pointed out, the Odyssey trio of Ulmer, Burnham and Benbow also recorded the live set "Part Time," available on Rough Trade circa 1983. That was the second of the "three discs" Dalachinsky was referring to; the Knitting Factory disc would therefore be the fourth and the "full circle" to which he refers. I remembered that about a microsecond before reopening the e-mail program to find Eric's message. Damn... you leave the computer turned off for a few days, you grow rusty. I didn't win Ben Stein's money tonight, either. Gotta take my Geritol. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: ESP kaput? Date: 17 Mar 1998 02:15:23 -0500 SUGAR in their vitamins? wrote: > don't know what the prices are > like in NY, but out here Amoeba > sells the ZYX re-issue CDs for > US$10! That's better than anything I've seen here. OTOH, I bought my ZYX ESPs when I lived in Texas, where just about everything was more affordable assuming it came to you at all. > there's no way the > Smithsonians are going to be > that cheap. Agreed, but in the right hands sometimes the extra money provides extra value... > and the sound quality > isn't too shabby. i was really > happy to finally get "NY Eye > and Ear Control" on CD. I was, too. But it was kinda heinous shelling out full price for some of the skimpier releases, even though in my heart of hearts (whatever the hell that means) I was simply pleased to be able to buy most of these thingees. But after the exemplary job they've done on their ongoing Indonesian series as well as the Harry Smith box everyone was talking about this year, I want to believe (quoth Mulder) that Smithsonian Folkways will treat the ESP catalog with the same kind of reverence they've displayed towards other offbeat and anti-commercial indigenous musics. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2 <JonAbbey2@aol.com> Subject: Indonesian Smithsonians (was: ESP kaput?) Date: 17 Mar 1998 02:36:04 EST In a message dated 3/17/98 2:24:16 AM, ssmith36@sprynet.com wrote: <<But after the exemplary job they've done on their ongoing Indonesian series>> Good to see you back, Steve. I know we're a little ways from being on topic here but I'd love to hear some recommendations for the best of this series. I only have Volume 3: From The Outskirts Of Jakarta and I like it a lot. ObZorn: Circle Maker has a way more relaxed feel to it than Bar Kokhba did. I especially think the sextet disc is one of the more successful of JZ's recent releases. And Marc Ribot just keeps getting better and better. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: flamerik@best.ms.philips.com Subject: Circle Maker/Avant Date: 17 Mar 1998 08:45:45 +0100 Bjoern asked: > JOHN ZORN "The Circle Maker" (Tzadik) 2xcd 21.00 > is this already out????????? > any reviews...after the great Angelus Novus and the even greater > Filmworks 8....another highlight??? I hope it will reach these shores aka Holland soon. I've had some problems lately with obtaining Tzadik/Avant/DIW stuff. I haven't seen Masada 9 yet, and it is rumoured that the import of Avant will cease altogether. Which is a pity, because I was looking out for the Weird Little Boy album on Avant. Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque <Dgasque@aol.com> Subject: Bible Launcher Date: 17 Mar 1998 03:05:17 EST I never heard anyone mention any luck in getting this reissue from Radical House, so I thought I would go ahead and take the plunge. If it proves successful (or unsuccessful), i'll let ya'll know... =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vadim Marmer <msvadi@olive.mscc.huji.ac.il> Subject: leo records Date: 17 Mar 1998 10:10:12 +0300 (MEST) does anybody know the place on internet where i can buy Leo Records releases? i`m looking for Ganelin Trio & Sergei Kurehin CDs. (please, don`t mention JazzHausMusik, it took 3 month to get cds from them & they don`t accept credit cards). another question: anyone have idea where can i order David Azarian Trio cds? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leon lee <llee15@ccsf.cc.ca.us> Subject: re: jim black & pachora Date: 17 Mar 1998 01:29:21 -0800 (PST) if you haven't checke out Human Feel, i'd highly suggest it (as i'm sure most people on this list). their 'scatter' lp is great, although every release i have is worth a blind buy. personnel includes chris speed, andrew d'angelo, jim black, kurt rosenwinkle and a now defunkt bassist onthe 'scatter' session. plus jim black as an integral member in Tiny Bell Trio is equally exciting and fresh. one album that i enjoy very much is Hiroshi Minami's "Message from Parlienna' with jim black. his intro solo on Ryuichi Sakamoto's 'Merry Christmas Mr. Lawrence' is lyrical, texturally sensitive and incredibly spacial and dynamic. truly a great drummer. i could go on and on... (ie. tim berne's group w/ jim black et all). you get the point. does pachora have something released? leon disclaimer:it's all blue. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FUNKADELlC <FUNKADELlC@aol.com> Subject: BLAH Date: 17 Mar 1998 04:53:32 EST I SAW BUCKETHEAD PLAY THIS WEEKEND IT WAZ GOOD HE HAD GIANT ROBOT MOVIES ON HE DID BASKETBALL TRICKS STEPHEN PERKINS AND MIKE WATT PLAYED BEFORE HIM IT WAS HAPPY NIGHT -cory sklar - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: Re: More Panthalassa Date: 17 Mar 1998 09:48:58 GMT0BST Black Satin hews closely to the original: I don't know about the "tag" at the end, but Miles' trumpet solo is taken completely from side one of On The Corner. However, they're not identical: on Panthalassa the "theme" is played twice (tho' with one statement less than the first time) before the sharp drum beat break that follows the first theme statement on On The Corner. And Laswell has "snipped" a bit out of the middle of Miles' solo (most of the snipped bit is rather dull, I have to say) as we hear it on On The Corner. The other big difference is that one of the percussion instruments (sounds like a sack of tambourine cymbals) has been removed completely. I can sort of understand that: it makes the rhythms crisper. The rest of the second track on Panthalassa is a mystery to me: I assume it comes from the same sessions, but I have no info. And the four sets of bloody sleeve-notes tell you nothing!!! Sean. Next: September 72, Rated X and Billy Preston - two of my favourites! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: leo records Date: 17 Mar 1998 08:46:51 -0500 >>>>> "Vadim" == Vadim Marmer <msvadi@olive.mscc.huji.ac.il> writes: Vadim> does anybody know the place on internet where i can buy Leo Vadim> Records releases? i`m looking for Ganelin Trio & Sergei Vadim> Kurehin CDs. (please, don`t mention JazzHausMusik, it took Vadim> 3 month to get cds from them & they don`t accept credit Vadim> cards). another question: anyone have idea where can i Vadim> order David Azarian Trio cds? Try cadence at www.cadencebuilding.com. They are the US distributors for Leo. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: edechena@thomas.butler.edu (Dechenaux Emmanuel) Subject: RE: Naked city Date: 17 Mar 1998 09:53:30 -0500 (EST) Marc Ducret is going to play in the jazz festival of my hometown, in France. This guy is just great, especially because of his approach of rhythm and sound. Did you know that almost everything was written ? He uses specific notations for the kind of harmonics he produces by plucking the strings close to the body of the guitar with his pick. I began to listen to Frisell a long time ago and then I came to Kevin Eubanks, and eventually Ducret. I think these guys are going beyond everything that has been made so far. Have ever heard of MAO by Noel Akchote, with Helene Labarriere (Ducret's wife) playing the stick. What about "Soundpages", so close to "Live" by Frisell... Sincerely, M_base - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: ESP kaput? Date: 17 Mar 1998 10:07:25 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Tom Pratt wrote: > Also, speaking of ESP... If anyone has any/both of those two very rare > ESP LP's by Don Pullen and Milford Graves and wouldn't mind taping them > for me, please get in touch! Thanks. the 2 volumes of _nommo_ weren't actually on esp. they were artist-released and are now extremely rare. however, milford did have a record as a leader on esp with sunny morgan called _milford graves percussion ensemble_, which is pretty heavy. i would recommend that disc to anyone thinking about picking up some of the esp titles before they go out of print on cd. i'm pretty sure that get back hasn't issued the graves disc on vinyl and i've also heard that @ least some of the get back titles were mastered from the zyx cds, complete with digital skips. milford also plays drums @ least 2 or 3 of the first 20 or so esp titles. _new york art quartet_ is another essential score. albert ayler's _spiritual unity_ is also a must-have. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian & Sharon Beuchaw <beuchaw@nathan.enteract.com> Subject: Re: leo records Date: 17 Mar 1998 09:12:47 -0600 (CST) On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Caleb Deupree wrote: > >>>>> "Vadim" == Vadim Marmer <msvadi@olive.mscc.huji.ac.il> writes: > > Vadim> does anybody know the place on internet where i can buy Leo > Vadim> Records releases? i`m looking for Ganelin Trio & Sergei > Vadim> Kurehin CDs. (please, don`t mention JazzHausMusik, it took > Vadim> 3 month to get cds from them & they don`t accept credit > Vadim> cards). another question: anyone have idea where can i > Vadim> order David Azarian Trio cds? > > Try cadence at www.cadencebuilding.com. They are the US distributors > for Leo. And Leo's homepage is at www.atlas.co.uk/leorecords, FYI.... cya brian "The most dementing of all modern sins: the inability to distinguish excellence from success." - David Hare - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Aki Takahashi: Hyper Beatles Vol 1 Date: 17 Mar 1998 14:54:24 -0500 Perusing Carl Stone's site (sukothai.com), I came across a listing of the above album (on Toshiba-EMI) which, as near as I can tell, consists of interpretations of Beatles songs by, among others, Stone (He Said She Said), Cage, Curran and Rzewski. While I'm no Beatles fan by any stretch, this does sound intriguing. Anyone heard it? Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: Aki Takahashi: Hyper Beatles Vol 1 Date: 17 Mar 1998 14:12:09 -0600 (CST) On Tue, 17 Mar 1998 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > Perusing Carl Stone's site (sukothai.com), I came across a listing of > the above album (on Toshiba-EMI) which, as near as I can tell, > consists of interpretations of Beatles songs by, among others, Stone > (He Said She Said), Cage, Curran and Rzewski. While I'm no Beatles fan > by any stretch, this does sound intriguing. Yup, it does exist! I've heard it, but remember little about it, other than Cage's piece, which, if memory serves, consisted of a whole lot of piano transcriptions of Beatles tunes superimposed. - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re:Aki Takahashi: Hyper Beatles Vol 1 Date: 17 Mar 1998 21:01:54 UT It does indeed sound really interesting, but I once wrote Carl Stone about it, jeez, must have been two years ago, and he said he had just sold the last one and was now officially out of print. That's what he told me anyway. Peter ____________________Reply Separator____________________ Author: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Perusing Carl Stone's site (sukothai.com), I came across a listing of the above album (on Toshiba-EMI) which, as near as I can tell, consists of interpretations of Beatles songs by, among others, Stone (He Said She Said), Cage, Curran and Rzewski. While I'm no Beatles fan by any stretch, this does sound intriguing. Anyone heard it? Brian Olewnick - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Re: Jim Black, Odyssey Date: 17 Mar 1998 16:02:34 -0500 (EST) I saw Pachora too, and while I thought they were good, they don't touch Dave Douglas tiny bell trio (which has Jim Black and Brad Shepik, half of Pachora). They go farther out and are less self consciously ethnic, if you get the live in europe believe me its better than the Pachora album, which doesn't capture Pachora's live sound. Plus I don't like the electric bass in Pachora. Also, you can hear Jim Black w/ Bloodcount, Ellery Eskelin, and he's touring with Anthony Coleman now. He is great. I heard the Odyssey band's new one, doing a review for it, and I would say its a little watered down. The guitar sound is too slick for me. There are a few good songs, but more square, boring rock songs with vocals, I'm not too big on those. So with Blood Ulmer, I seem to have heard his not as good recent stuff- where is the stuff that he made his name with? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Re: Jim Black, Odyssey Date: 17 Mar 1998 16:02:34 -0500 (EST) I saw Pachora too, and while I thought they were good, they don't touch Dave Douglas tiny bell trio (which has Jim Black and Brad Shepik, half of Pachora). They go farther out and are less self consciously ethnic, if you get the live in europe believe me its better than the Pachora album, which doesn't capture Pachora's live sound. Plus I don't like the electric bass in Pachora. Also, you can hear Jim Black w/ Bloodcount, Ellery Eskelin, and he's touring with Anthony Coleman now. He is great. I heard the Odyssey band's new one, doing a review for it, and I would say its a little watered down. The guitar sound is too slick for me. There are a few good songs, but more square, boring rock songs with vocals, I'm not too big on those. So with Blood Ulmer, I seem to have heard his not as good recent stuff- where is the stuff that he made his name with? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "MBS" <sablof_m@LSA.Lan.McGill.CA> Subject: Oswald's latest Date: 17 Mar 1998 16:13:48 EST Listening to the CBC a few weeks back, I learned what John Oswald is currently working on. He said that it was an orchestral work in which the players were directed/conducted (not sure what he said or even meant... ) by slides being projected in the theatre. The slides are to contain words in English and French and he mentioned that it would explore homophones across the languages. The only other facts that I recall were that it is to be a 10 minute work and it will be presented in Canada. Anyone else have any info? Any out there own any of Oswald's mystery tapes? Anyone want to discuss his works? Let me know.. Good day all. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Aki Takahashi: Hyper Beatles Vol 1 Date: 17 Mar 1998 13:21:18 -0800 On Tue, 17 Mar 1998 21:01:54 UT peter_risser@cinfin.com wrote: > > It does indeed sound really interesting, but I once wrote Carl Stone about it, > jeez, must have been two years ago, and he said he had just sold the last one > and was now officially out of print. > I think there was a total of four volumes: Hyperbeatles Norwegian Wood Get Back and Let it Be including songs arranged by: Volans, Naito, Finnissy, Cage, Vierk, Takemitsu, Oliveros, Saariaho, Altena, Tenney, Riley, Curran, Ikebe, Kang, Mikhashoff, Cage, Miyake, Garland, Norgard, etc Here is the description of the second (from the Guy Klucevsek disco): 023 - NORWEGIAN WOOD - HYPER MUSIC FROM LENNON & McCARTNEY: Aki Takahashi This record features arrangements/recompositions of Beatles songs by Pauline Oliveros, Guy Klucevsek, Per Norgard, Shin-Ichiro Ikebe, Alvin Curran, Sukhi Kang, Mamoru Fujieda, Alvin Lucier, Tan Dun, Ayuo Takahashi, Yvar Mikhashoff, Terry Riley, Walter Zimmerman. 1/ Monk's Intermezzo (arr. Klucevsek) 3:23 Aki Takahashi: piano. 1991 - Eastworld/Toshiba/EMI (Japan), TOCE-8023 (CD) > ____________________Reply Separator____________________ > Subject: Aki Takahashi: Hyper Beatles Vol 1 > Author: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com > Date: 03/17/1998 2:54 PM > > > Perusing Carl Stone's site (sukothai.com), I came across a listing of > the above album (on Toshiba-EMI) which, as near as I can tell, > consists of interpretations of Beatles songs by, among others, Stone > (He Said She Said), Cage, Curran and Rzewski. While I'm no Beatles fan > by any stretch, this does sound intriguing. > > Anyone heard it? > > Brian Olewnick > > > > - > > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: Oswald's latest Date: 17 Mar 1998 13:11:47 -0800 I sent blanks to an address in the Midwest to get free copies of the mystery tapes, and it was for nought. Keith - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@UVic.CA> Subject: Oswald Date: 17 Mar 1998 13:54:38 -0800 (PST) Are you refering to the original Plunderphonics? I know someone with an original copy of the cd (cover art and all) - I'm sure he has a price... . When Oswald was in town for Victoria's tic.toc festival last November, he gave out some lists of reliable addresses to get copies - I'll try to get one and post it here. (post an email if you want more about his visit/lecture/recital or my brief conversation with him...) Cappy D'Angelo Student at Law - Intellectual Property Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion Victoria, B.C., CANADA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jan-Wen Lu <janwenlu@top2.ficnet.net.tw> Subject: "Wedding Disc" for Jon Date: 18 Mar 1998 06:07:23 +0800 Got a compilation CD that celebrates Jon's marriage. Titled "Jumbled Sandwich for 6 Feet", on Perfect Gas Stamp. With a lot of Japanese/American underground artists, UFO Or Die, Akaten, Jad Fair and Jason Willett, Zubi Zuva, Harpy, etc. Zorn contributes one track, titled "Kisofim", played by Marc Ribot, Mark Feldman, Eric Friedlander, Greg Cohen, Cyro Baptista, and Joey Baron. It can be obtained at bigger record stroe in Japan, such as Tower, DiscUnion, Virgin Mega Store, etc. Never heard this compilation before, but it's quite great!! Jan-Wen Lu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: Oswald Date: 17 Mar 1998 17:25:02 -0500 I have a tape of 'Plunderphonics' with a 10 min. thing attached to the end called 'Rubaiyat' that has some manipulations of stuff by The Doors, Metallica, etc. My tape is incredibly well-made with a color photocopied home-made j-card with the cover art and liner notes all there. Anyway, I'm very interested in hearing more from Oswald (is he the same alto sax playing John Oswald?) so someone please let me know what else is out there! Thanks. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Oswald Date: 17 Mar 1998 18:18:18 -0500 >>>>> "Tom" == Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> writes: Tom> I have a tape of 'Plunderphonics' with a 10 min. thing Tom> attached to the end called 'Rubaiyat' that has some Tom> manipulations of stuff by The Doors, Metallica, etc. My tape Tom> is incredibly well-made with a color photocopied home-made Tom> j-card with the cover art and liner notes all there. Anyway, Tom> I'm very interested in hearing more from Oswald (is he the Tom> same alto sax playing John Oswald?) so someone please let me Tom> know what else is out there! Thanks. Yes, he is the same as the alto player, but he is most well known for the Plunderphonics. You can read a fairly complete history and discographical details at http://www.interlog.com/~vacuvox/x.html, but to make a long story short, there are four plunderphonics disks from Oswald. The first (which was the one that caused the stink) is available for download from the site above (or some link from there, you may have to dig). Note that although you may have this music, you may not buy or sell it. The second, Rubaiyat, has become the most unavailable until someone makes it available for download. The Dead commissioned a series which became a 2-CD set with all samples coming from various concert recordings of Dark Star, still relatively available, called Greyfolded (or Greyfol Ded). And finally, JZ himself commissioned his Avant release Plexure, where the samples are recognizable and stolen, so it is possible that someone somewhere sometime may apply the right amount of pressure to get it withdrawn. I haven't heard Rubaiyat, but Plexure is definitely the place to start. 1000 samples from pop and rock of the 1980s, sliced, diced, and blended into an amazing 20-minute piece. Absolutely killer. How much you like Greyfolded will depend on how much you like the original group, although some parts of it go way beyond even the Dead's most outside improvisations, and most serious Oswald lovers will have this. IMHO, the first one sounds, well, like a first one. The tracks are instantly recognizable, and he covers all genres of music, from Michael Jackson (which was the one which got him in so much trouble) to Dolly Parton to Bing Crosby to Stravinsky. The site contains a complete discography, but I'll quickly mention his CD Parade on ReR (also still available) which is interesting electroacoustic music, much of it for dance, but it is not plunderphonic. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: The Odyssey Band Date: 17 Mar 1998 18:53:22 -0500 (EST) Thanks, Eric and Steve, for the info. On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, Saidel Eric J wrote: > So, what's this new one like? I must admit, just the idea of it has > me salivating. I'm just afraid it's like the watered down Ulmer I've > been hearing of late (with the exception of his Ornette disc). I wouldn't call it watered down, but it's not nearly on the level of the original _Odyssey_ (admittedly a pretty high standard). Four out of nine tracks are vocal numbers, and Ulmer's vocals haven't worked well for me since _Odyssey_ with the exception of the funk/rock-oriented but still very good Third Rail album. Aside from that, the group just doesn't seem as tight. In short, it's pretty decent Blood, but it's not up there with his best. (Note that the preceding is based on only one listen. I might very well decide I'm completely wrong.) Have you heard the last three Music Revelation Ensemble albums (_In the Name Of..._, _Knights of Power_, _Cross Fire_)? They don't break any new ground, but they don't sound at all compromised, and the playing is consistently strong from all parties, I think. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: More Panthalassa Date: 17 Mar 1998 19:01:25 -0500 (EST) On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, DR S WILKIE wrote: > The rest of the second track on Panthalassa is a mystery to me: I > assume it comes from the same sessions, but I have no info. And the > four sets of bloody sleeve-notes tell you nothing!!! Good to hear Laswell or Sony (whoever's responsible for the lapse) is staying true to the spirit of the original LPs.8^) Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Ulmer recs? Date: 17 Mar 1998 18:28:29 -0500 Christopher Hamilton wrote: > > In short, it's pretty decent Blood, but it's not up there with his best. So what is his best? Ulmer is someone I have yet to check out and I recently discovered a vinyl store that has quite a few of his LP's but I did not know what to get. Thanks! -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@UVic.CA> Subject: Re: Oswald Date: 17 Mar 1998 16:08:32 -0800 (PST) It IS the alto sax playing Oswald - though he doesn't play often, and then only improv. There's a disc on AVANT which is similar to the original plunderphonics but uses MANY artists (he claims several thousand samples) within each track as opposed to the infamous original with each track dedicated to one artist. Although only released by Elektra as a promo, I've seen the 2-cd Rubayait(sp?) in used record stores. Spectre was (I think) recorded by Kronos (for whom it was composed). The Modern (string) Quartet from Toronto have performed/commissioned several works by Oswald, four of which were performed and recorded at the aforementioned tic.toc festival (digital bootlegs of this are rumored to be available - contact me privately...). Of course, Oswald's 45-plus-minute Plunderphonic of live versions of the Grateful Dead's Dark Star (commissioned by Phil Lesh) is available on "Grayfolded" (on disc two, Oswald "folds" the work upon itself something like 64,000 times.) According to the CBC broadcast much new music is on the way from Oswald, including a plunderphonic of Sonic Youth (commissioned by Sonic Youth). Cappy D'Angelo Student at Law - Intellectual Property Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion Victoria, B.C., CANADA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Odyssey Date: 17 Mar 1998 19:14:45 -0500 (EST) On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, William York wrote: > So with Blood Ulmer, I seem to have heard his not > as good recent stuff- where is the stuff that he made his name with? At least three that I'd call classics are in print to my knowledge: _Tales of Captain Black_ (DIW): With Ornette and Denardo Coleman and Jamaaladeen Tacuma. Sounds closer to early Prime Time than to Ulmer's mature work, even though he writes all the tunes. _Do You Still Believe in America?_ (DIW): My favorite example of his mature style with a sizable cast of players, of whom I'll single out Shannon Jackson. _Odyssey_ (Columbia): Unusual guitar/violin/drums lineup. Crisp playing. Maybe his best songs. Maybe his best album. I'd also recommend the Music Revelation Ensemble's _No Wave_ (recently, maybe still, on Moers Music) and _Black Rock_ and _Free Lancing_ (out of print on Columbia) as good examples of his peak. Other people speak very highly of some od the Phalanx material with George Adams and Rashied Ali, but I'm not very familiar with that group, so I'll leave the recommendations to others. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com> Subject: Re: Ulmer recs? Date: 17 Mar 1998 21:50:36 -0500 Tom Pratt wrote: > Christopher Hamilton wrote: > > > > In short, it's pretty decent Blood, but it's not up there with his > best. > > So what is his best? Ulmer is someone I have yet to check out and I > recently discovered a vinyl store that has quite a few of his LP's but > I > did not know what to get. Thanks! > > -Tom Pratt Ulmer made his reputation with Ornette, and carried the Harmolodic banner into his own band. They made a couple of killer LPs, like the Rough Trade "America" and the classic "Odyssey." Different folks but the identifiable Ulmer sound. His Caravan of Dreams LP is worth tracking down, very similar to "Odyssey." However, Blood has not lived up to the reputation, IMHO. Most of his stuff just lacks the spark of his early work. His singing is most forgetable and his style has not progressed at all. He's one guy that I keep hoping will again produce a classic like "Odyssey" but has disappointed for many years. His work isn't terrible, just lacks the killer. A bit of his style has carried over to Joe Morris, but Blood's cds pale in comparison to Joe. Next time you go to buy a Blood cd, think about picking up a Morris instead. Alan > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org> Subject: Re: Ulmer recs? Date: 17 Mar 1998 19:21:53 -0800 At 09:50 PM 3/17/98 -0500, Alan E Kayser wrote: >Ulmer made his reputation with Ornette, and carried the Harmolodic >banner into his own band. They made a couple of killer LPs, like the >Rough Trade "America" and the classic "Odyssey." Different folks but >the identifiable Ulmer sound. His Caravan of Dreams LP is worth >tracking down, very similar to "Odyssey." However, Blood has not lived >up to the reputation, IMHO. Most of his stuff just lacks the spark of >his early work. His singing is most forgetable and his style has not >progressed at all. He's one guy that I keep hoping will again produce a >classic like "Odyssey" but has disappointed for many years. His work >isn't terrible, just lacks the killer. A bit of his style has carried >over to Joe Morris, but Blood's cds pale in comparison to Joe. Next >time you go to buy a Blood cd, think about picking up a Morris instead. Three things about Blood: 1) The best way to hear him play is live. There is no comparison to any of his recordings when he is in front of an audience. Seems to set him on edge, and he is very responsive to the crowd. 2) A lot of people expect him to be something he isn't. Talking to him, he is far less interested in being a fiery jazz guitarist than in resuscitating blues, gospel, funk and turning them into something modern. None of these really depend on virtuosity delivering their message, and Blood submerges his own playing to create something bigger than a guitar showcase. 3) He's a really nice, humble guy. (Advertisement) There will be a new Third Rail CD coming out this year, Blood, Amina, Bernie Worrell, Jerome Brailey, and Bill Laswell. Jeff Spirer B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: Oswald, etc Date: 18 Mar 1998 14:27:03 +1100 (EST) I've had this same problem - I wrote to the Copyright Violation Squad with an IRC and a query, and got no reply. Then I posted this same bunch of turkeys (at an address I'd just pulled from the latest Wire) with a blank tape, a return envelope, and 4 IRCs. Never heard back. And I gotta say: the US mail has always been very kind about returning any misdirected letters of mine. So, something got violated. Dunno about copyright, but. On Tue, 17 Mar 1998, Keith McMullen wrote: > I sent blanks to an address in the Midwest to get free copies of the mystery > tapes, and it was for nought. > > Keith > > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "MBS" <sablof_m@LSA.Lan.McGill.CA> Subject: Re: Oswald, etc Date: 18 Mar 1998 07:50:35 EST > I've had this same problem - I wrote to the Copyright Violation > Squad with an IRC and a query, and got no reply. > > Then I posted this same bunch of turkeys (at an address I'd just pulled > from the latest Wire) with a blank tape, a return envelope, and 4 IRCs. > Never heard back. And I gotta say: the US mail has always been very kind > about returning any misdirected letters of mine. > > So, something got violated. Dunno about copyright, but. Well, within the last year I contacted the Canadian branch at : The =A9 Violation Squad (Canadian Chapter) P.O.Box 30007, Parkgate PO, N.Vancouver, BC, V7H 2Y8 CANADA and had no problem whatsoever. Their tape (100min) includes the original Plunderphonics, the elektra songs and Negativland's U2 as well, all on the one tape. I personally own Plexure, Discosphere (a collection of his dance works - which does have some plunder-like creations on it, one taken all from "talking books") & Greyfolded. If anyone would like a copy made, let me know. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re[2]: Oswald Date: 18 Mar 1998 13:39:49 UT Oswalds ReR CD is called "Discosphere" and is quite excellent. Yes, his pieces are for dance, but there are a few Plunderphonic ones. In addition, his style is still the same, whether it uses pop music as base material or not, so all the pieces are created by manipulation of sound. The Rubiyat 2CD comp is decent enough (it's got Zorn's cover of TV Eye, the actual first place I'd ever heard Zorn and Naked City! Blew my MIND!) as well as a bunch of other covers, all decent to mediocre, but doesn't have any Oswald on it. The Elektra Promo CD was released in conjunction with the set, and has five Oswald Plunderphonic pieces on it. Very hard to find, I hear, but the station I used to work at had one. I have a tape of Plunderphonics and Elektrax, which also includes a piece by him called "Parade" which is a plunder of Eric Saties' ballet by the same name (I think). How much is him, and how much is Satie, it's hard to say. But it's a good piece. I'd be willing to make copies for anyone who sends a tape and return postage. In addition, the site mentioned in a previous post has links to an FTP site where you can download the actual WAV files from Plunderphonics, so you'se guys with CD-W drives can cut your own CD. I also have copies of all the tunes as MP3's. I'd be willing to mail them out one at a time to interested parties. Let me know by Friday and I can start mailing Monday. I also have copies of all the tunes as RealAudio, which is about 6 Megs and I can send those out to any parties who are curious to hear Oswald right now, RealAudio quality, no questions asked. Let me know. Peter peter_risser@cinfin.com risser@goodnews.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Ulmer recs? Date: 18 Mar 1998 08:41:15 -0500 >>>>> "Alan" == Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com> writes: Alan> A bit of his style has carried over Alan> to Joe Morris, but Blood's cds pale in comparison to Joe. Alan> Next time you go to buy a Blood cd, think about picking up a Alan> Morris instead. Are we thinking of the same Joe Morris? I've got three CDs and some vinyl of the Joe Morris Trio, none of which have a beat of any kind, much less the funky stuff I associate with Blood. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Walsh <MATTW@smginc.com> Subject: RE: Ground Zero Date: 16 Mar 1998 16:23:00 PST <<Also, on what label was the Ground Zero album "Revolutionary Pekinese Opera" releases, and is it still available?>> Oddly enough, I was browsing a website I was referred to from another mailing list (King Crimson), and found this album at the independent artist shop, inventively called "The Artist Shop". You can find it at: http://www.artist-shop.com/cuniform/index.htm they are selling it for $13.99. I think I've seen this at Forced Exposure as well. According to the Artist Shop site, the label is ReR. By the way, I have a Ground Zero 7" called "Revolutionary Pekinese Opera", is this the exact same as the CD?, or part of it?, or something different completely? Please e-mail directly unless you think it's worthwhile for the whole list to see it. Later, Matthew Walsh Software Engineer - Strategic Management Group mattw@smginc.com mattmonkw@aol.com Matt's personal CD jukebox - Currently playing and annoying co-workers with: The Great Kat - "Digital Beethoven On Cyberspeed" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: Ground Zero Date: 18 Mar 1998 10:33:00 -0800 >Oddly enough, I was browsing a website I was referred to from another >mailing list (King Crimson), Speaking of which, I'm going to see Projekt Two tonight...Fripp, Belew, Gunn trio... Will I regret it? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Walsh <MATTW@smginc.com> Subject: Zorn/Patton/Spruance CD Date: 16 Mar 1998 18:37:00 PST I just noticed this CD listed at Music Boulevard, and I don't think I've seen any mention of it on this list, does anyone have any info on this CD? It sounds very intriquing, but the price ($28) is scaring me away... John Zorn / Mike Patton / Trey Sprunace "Weird Little Boy" Hatar , Released 02/27/98 IMPORT - JAPAN Please let me know. Thanks. Later, Matthew Walsh Software Engineer - Strategic Management Group mattw@smginc.com mattmonkw@aol.com Matt's personal CD jukebox - Currently playing and annoying co-workers with: Victor Wooten - "What Did He Say?" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Ground Zero Date: 18 Mar 1998 14:07:09 -0500 >>>>> "Matt" == Matt Walsh <MATTW@smginc.com> writes: Matt> By the way, I have a Ground Zero 7" called "Revolutionary Matt> Pekinese Opera", is this the exact same as the CD?, or part Matt> of it?, or something different completely? Please e-mail Matt> directly unless you think it's worthwhile for the whole list Matt> to see it. According to the discography at http://www2.gol.com/users/miyuki/yotomo/yotomo.html, the 7" is version 1.50, and the ReR CD is 1.28. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Jason J. Tar" <tarjason@pilot.msu.edu> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #263 Date: 18 Mar 1998 15:58:04 -0500 >Date: Mon, 16 Mar 98 16:23:00 PST >From: Matt Walsh <MATTW@smginc.com> >Subject: RE: Ground Zero > >By the way, I have a Ground Zero 7" called "Revolutionary Pekinese >Opera", is this the exact same as the CD?, or part of it?, or something >different completely? Please e-mail directly unless you think it's >worthwhile for the whole list to see it. Thought someone else may care, so replied to all. The 7" is very different from the CD. The A-side is somewhat a new track, while the B-Side is a live track. It was available from Gentle Giant records, but last I heard they were down to less than 10 copies left. btw--TV Pow and Otomo Yoshihide should be touring some parts of the midwest US in early May. I know a May 12th date is set for Cleveland, but not sure of other dates yet. JJTar - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com> Subject: Re: Ground Zero Date: 18 Mar 1998 13:22:52 -0800 (PST) On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Keith McMullen wrote: > Speaking of which, I'm going to see Projekt Two tonight...Fripp, Belew, Gunn > trio... i thought it was Fripp/Bruford/Gunn? looking forward to seeing this 22 March at the Great American in SF. > Will I regret it? is this a rhetorical question? hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: edechena@thomas.butler.edu (Dechenaux Emmanuel) Subject: Re: Pachora in Pittsburgh Date: 18 Mar 1998 19:45:09 -0500 (EST) Can anybody give the address of a web site where I could register for a King Crimson mailing list ? Thanx M_base - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nils Jacobson <JACOBSON@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu> Subject: Re: Joe Morris Date: 18 Mar 1998 19:53:51 +0100 Caleb T. Deupree writes: > Are we thinking of the same Joe Morris? I've got three CDs and some > vinyl of the Joe Morris Trio, none of which have a beat of any kind, > much less the funky stuff I associate with Blood. First, I don't think you've been listening very closely. Joe is always playing with a beat. His stuff swings. The beat is understated, buried, but it's always there. Listen to it closely. Subtlety in the rhythm department. Now if you want a strong thump on the one and three, perhaps that's not the place to look. Joe has a power trio funk album called Sweatshop out since 1990 which is available from Cadence, as well as something new coming out shortly (don't remember the label and title right off) with a sextet, more along the lines of polyphonics and texture. Really gotta check this guy out. -Nils - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glenn Astarita <gastarit@comm.net> Subject: RE: Pachora in Pittsburgh Date: 18 Mar 1998 19:44:10 -0600 -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 1998 6:45 PM Cc: zorn-list@xmission.com Can anybody give the address of a web site where I could register for a King Crimson mailing list ? Thanx M_base [Glenn Astarita] =20 Its called Elephant Talk.....do a search on the web and you'll find the = website and details. I subscribe but don't have the info at = hand...beware ! The list is overpopulated ! If you have lots of time to = burn than go for it ! I've been meaning to "unsub" for quite = sometime...... ga - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Gretz <KGGF@grove.iup.edu> Subject: Reissues question Date: 19 Mar 1998 01:10:07 -0500 (EST) i'm recently going on a major zorn kick and am going to finally buy all the zorn albums i've been putting off buying for years. one question though. I've been seeing a lot of albums come out on Tzadik that i never thought would come out on that label (Black Box, Painkiller, Filmworks) does anyone know if there are any plans of releasing the following (even if in box set form) The big gundown cobra spillane spy vs. spy Live at the Knitting factory: John Zorn's Cobra john zorn's cobra: Tokyo Operations '94 Naked city Grand Guignol Absinthe Heretic Radio the masada catalog let me know i don't want to but them import if i'm gonna have to sell them for the Tzadik reissues, which i think are great and in every case much better in sound and packaging. jeff - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Zorn/Patton/Spruance CD Date: 19 Mar 1998 18:12:41 +1100 > I just noticed this CD listed at Music Boulevard, and I don't think I've > seen any mention of it on this list, does anyone have any info on this > CD? It sounds very intriquing, but the price ($28) is scaring me away... > > John Zorn / Mike Patton / Trey Sprunace > "Weird Little Boy" > Hatar , Released 02/27/98 > IMPORT - JAPAN I read that it was a noisy improvisation type thing, which is understandable since that is what these guys have been doing together lately. But the site where I read that could've been wrong. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: A Question For All You Music Scholars Out There Date: 19 Mar 1998 19:23:37 +1100 simply for my own interest: Does anyone know of any concertos (from any musical period) with 4 movements rather than the usual 3? The only one I can think of off the top of my head is Brahms' 2nd piano concerto. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Doug McKay" <mckay003@maroon.tc.umn.edu> Subject: Albert Ayler Date: 19 Mar 1998 03:51:14 Albert Ayler has 31 albums! Only 7 of which are on ESP. I've got "Spiritual Unity" ('64) and "New York Eye and Ear Control" ('64). The other ESP albums are "Vibrations" ('64), "Spirits Rejoice" ('65), "Bells: At Town Hall" (65), "At Slugs Saloon, vols. 1&2" ('66). Here's my question. Are these ESP albums I don't have some of his best, or can I bypass some to afford some of his others? Although completeness is appealing there's just too many here, so I have to be selective. I found a discography on www.thenewage.com, which is why I'm not going to include it here. I sure do like Ayler. New purchase: "At the Golden Circle, vols 1&2" - Ornette Coleman. Total price - $5.22 when choosing as BMG freebies. I lent Zorn's first "Naked City", first "Film Music" and Painkiller's "Execution Ground" to someone who was playing Morphine (who I hadn't heard before but made me think this guy might like Zorn). His initial reaction was Painkiller over the others. Doug McKay In Minnesota - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Albert Ayler (Painkiller/Morphine section) Date: 19 Mar 1998 20:40:04 +1100 > I lent Zorn's first "Naked City", first "Film Music" and Painkiller's > "Execution Ground" to someone who was playing Morphine (who I hadn't heard > before but made me think this guy might like Zorn). His initial reaction > was Painkiller over the others. It's a similar instrumentation i think. I personally find Morphine pretty boring though. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Doug McKay" <mckay003@maroon.tc.umn.edu> Subject: Albert Ayler Date: 19 Mar 1998 05:35:20 I missed "Prophecy" ('64) as another ESP album. Doug McKay In Minnesota - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar Subject: NAKED LUNCH Date: 19 Mar 1998 10:10:46 -0300 Hello Folks! I'm a brand new member in this list and I'd like to know if anybody ever listened to: NAKED LUNCH:William S. Burroughs Music by Bill Frisell, Wayne Horvitz and Eyvind Kang 1995- Warner (USA), 2-522206 (3xCD) This is the info I have -according to web-, but I couldn't get the CD in any store in my country. Does it really exist? If so, what about it? Please Help! Hugo, from Argentina - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Kaiser Date: 20 Mar 1998 00:22:40 +1100 I know that some of you out there have the (Y)earbooks. Can someone explain to me what Henry Kaiser is doing on the first track to get those weird and wonderful sounds? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com> Subject: either/orchestra Date: 19 Mar 1998 09:11:09 -0500 --------------8B626DB846F0BFA56EF3CBFE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pardon the non-Zorn related posting. Either/Orchestra will be performing here in Philadelphia on April 3 at 8pm. It will be held at the Unitarian Church on Chestnut St between 21st and 22nd. For more information contact aek1@erols.com or stop in at Classical Choice, 21st and Walnut. Ask for Alan. For those of you who don't know, this is one terrific ten man lineup. Should be lots of fun. And thanks to all of you who attended our first concert, Pachora. --------------8B626DB846F0BFA56EF3CBFE Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML> Pardon the non-Zorn related posting. Either/Orchestra will be performing here in Philadelphia on April 3 at 8pm. It will be held at the Unitarian Church on Chestnut St between 21st and 22nd. For more information contact <U>aek1@erols.com</U> or stop in at Classical Choice, 21st and Walnut. Ask for Alan. For those of you who don't know, this is one terrific ten man lineup. Should be lots of fun. And thanks to all of you who attended our first concert, Pachora.</HTML> --------------8B626DB846F0BFA56EF3CBFE-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tag Yr It <TagYrIt@aol.com> Subject: Re: concrete jazz Date: 19 Mar 1998 09:16:26 EST If anyone's interested in this, I have a copy available: J1816/LP/Hubbard, Freddie/Sing Me A Song of Songmy/Ex+(saw mark)/Ex+(minor wol)/Atlantic SD 1576/$8.00 Thanks..... Dale. Little Nighttown Music - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Tors <jtors@usinteractive.com> Subject: praxis Date: 19 Mar 1998 08:07:33 -0700 I realize that this discussion has already taken place, but I am interested in some suggestions for future Praxis recordings. I picked up Sacrifist about three weeks ago. It really hit me today how good it is. I have been told that Sacrifist is not one of the greatest Praxis albums, in which case, could someone suggest the absolute greatest Praxis album. Privately if it is too redundant for the list. That cut called The Hook blows me away. JT - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar Subject: NAKED LUNCH Date: 19 Mar 1998 12:15:58 -0300 Jay, Don't worry; any info I could get, I'll let you know. Anyway, what I do really need is information; the stores I've asked for (in Argentina) gave me no answer. Maybe in your big country you could get any info of it. Hugo, from Argentina - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Tors <jtors@usinteractive.com> Subject: praxis Date: 19 Mar 1998 09:27:52 -0700 Sorry did not mean "future" recordings, I meant other recordings that I could purchase in the future. JT - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Ross Davis <mrd@artswire.org> Subject: Re: NAKED LUNCH Date: 19 Mar 1998 12:26:00 -0500 (EST) >This is the info I have -according to web-, but I couldn't get the CD in >any store in my country. Does it really exist? If so, what about it? Yes, it exists, and it's a wonderful recording! The music is interludish and comes between larger sections of reading, and only overlaps Burroughs's voice in a few spots. If you enjoy listening to Burroughs read his own work, this is a MUST have. If you're a Frisell completist and don't like Burroughs at all, it might not be so urgent, since there isn't really a tremendous amount of music on it. It's nothing like Seven Souls - the music which comes between sections of reading is very spacey and far-out kinda stuff...some very very cool sounds. But it's not the kind of CD you'd play just to listen to the music (the musical sections are not on separate tracks from the readings). M | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | m - a - t - t - h - e - w | r - o - s - s | d - a - v - i - s | | | | http://www.artswire.org/mrd | | | | | | | UMD school of music | | | | m-e-t-a-t-r-o-n p-r-e-s-s | | | http://www.artswire.org/comma | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar Subject: JOHN ZORN: DURAS: DUCHAMP Date: 19 Mar 1998 14:56:13 -0300 Is there anybody out there who can give me any opinions/ suggestions about this CD? Should I buy it?: John Zorn: Duras: Duchamp Tzadik 7023 M. Feldman/ A. Coleman/ C. Bard/ C. Cummins/ J. Medeski/ J. Pugliese E. Friedlander Thanks, Hugo, from Argentina - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: JOHN ZORN: DURAS: DUCHAMP Date: 19 Mar 1998 13:47:50 -0500 >>>>> "Hugo" == hulinare <hulinare@bemberg.com.ar> writes: Hugo> Is there anybody out there who can give me any opinions/ Hugo> suggestions about this CD? Should I buy it?: Hugo> John Zorn: Duras: Duchamp Tzadik 7023 M. Feldman/ Hugo> A. Coleman/ C. Bard/ C. Cummins/ J. Medeski/ J. Pugliese Hugo> E. Friedlander Two of JZ's more ambient pieces. Duras is very much like Redbird, I think it's even the same ensemble. If you liked Redbird, you'll like Duras. Duchamp is much stranger, but also for the most part very quiet. Unlike Redbird and Duras, there are occasional sudden louder, more noisy bursts, overall extremely minimal and enigmatic and not really comparable to anything else I've heard from JZ. A drawback for me is that the characteristics of the two pieces are very different. While my companion would probably like Duras, Duchamp would get on one of her last nerves, so I don't play this much at home. It's way too minimal to play in the car or at the office, so I end up not listening to it much. However, I do like the music quite a bit and would recommend it if you like JZ's quieter, more abstract material. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Third Rail for Sale Date: 19 Mar 1998 16:09:02 -0500 (EST) Anyone who wants to buy my copy of Third Rail- South Delta Space Age you can have it for 8 bucks, let me know. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: praxis Date: 19 Mar 1998 19:44:54 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Jason Tors wrote: > I have been > told that Sacrifist is not one of the greatest Praxis albums, in which > case, could someone suggest the absolute greatest Praxis album. My favorite is the original EP, recently reissued on Subharmonic (don't know about the sound quality on the reissue, given what I've heard about other reissues), but it sounds nothing like any of the others, being an experimental electrofunk record. I actually do think _Sacrifist_ is the best of the Buckethead-centered version of Praxis, because it has the most variety, but I may well be in the minority. _Transmutation (Mutatis Mutandis)_ (Axiom) is fun P-Funk-meets-shred-metal stuff, but a little wearing for me over the long haul. I'm really jazzed on the recent _Transmutation Live_ (Douglas) which has a more improvisational feel and, between DXT and the Invisibl Skratch Picklz, features a small army of turntablists. I'd avoid _Metatron_, featuring a stripped-down trio of Buckethead, Laswell, and Brain on a disappointingly straightforward hard rock set. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Pachora in Pittsburgh Date: 20 Mar 1998 00:41:51 -0500 Dechenaux Emmanuel wrote: > Can anybody give the address of a web site where I could register for a > King Crimson mailing list ? http://www.elephant-talk.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Belew On Skins Date: 19 Mar 1998 21:41:28 -0800 >Dechenaux Emmanuel wrote: > >> Can anybody give the address of a web site where I could register for a >> King Crimson mailing list ? > >http://www.elephant-talk.com Why might Robert Fripp be able to stand playing in a trio with adrian belew on drums? In Projekt 2, Fripp and Gunn are stellar, but it is so hard to ignore Belew pounding sophomorically on the drums. help me somebody. keith - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: praxis Date: 20 Mar 1998 00:55:38 -0500 Jason Tors wrote: > I have been > told that Sacrifist is not one of the greatest Praxis albums, in which > case, could someone suggest the absolute greatest Praxis album. Privately > if it is too redundant for the list. Nothing is too redundant for the List. The difficulty in assessing the relative value of Praxis albums is that none of them is in precisely the same style or genre as the others. So if you love the deep ass funk of "Transmutation," you might very well loath the spurting death metallic "Sacrafist." I, on the other hand, in general prefer thrash to funk and therefore "Sacrafist" is far and away my favorite Praxis disc. "Metatron" is not really either of the above, and struck me as flashy guitar heroics of a type I'm not moved by. I haven't heard the new live disc but I imagine that pairing Buckethead and Brain with the Invisible Skratch Picklz was probably not a bad thing... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: praxis live Date: 20 Mar 1998 17:27:25 +1100 (EST) On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, Steve Smith wrote: > type I'm not moved by. I haven't heard the new live disc but I imagine that > pairing Buckethead and Brain with the Invisible Skratch Picklz was probably not > a bad thing... > Not so new now, but this live recording is a very great and damaged thing. First time I heard this (on the radio) I thought the DJ was mixing recordings by different line-ups of Locus Solus (plus other stuff). Totally boggling, tho' I ain't too crazy about the guitar histrionics. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: praxis Date: 20 Mar 1998 18:30:33 +1100 > My favorite is the original EP, recently reissued on Subharmonic (don't > know about the sound quality on the reissue, given what I've heard about > other reissues), but it sounds nothing like any of the others, being an > experimental electrofunk record. I actually do think _Sacrifist_ is the > best of the Buckethead-centered version of Praxis, because it has the most > variety, but I may well be in the minority. _Transmutation (Mutatis > Mutandis)_ (Axiom) is fun P-Funk-meets-shred-metal stuff, but a little > wearing for me over the long haul. I'm really jazzed on the recent > _Transmutation Live_ (Douglas) which has a more improvisational feel and, > between DXT and the Invisibl Skratch Picklz, features a small army of > turntablists. I'd avoid _Metatron_, featuring a stripped-down trio of > Buckethead, Laswell, and Brain on a disappointingly straightforward hard > rock set. I agree for the most part, but would have to say the Live disc has maybe a few too many scratch sections. And Metatron, although not their best, is worth purchasing if only for the lovely guitar piece "Wake The Dead". - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Terence Sin" <zippy@myna.com> Subject: Re: Tzadik re-issue Date: 20 Mar 1998 03:10:45 +0500 > The big gundown > spillane > spy vs. spy > Naked city These are all Elektra/Nonesuch releases, so if anything else a Tzadik re-issue will probably make them more expensive. The HatArt Cobra is available at normal price. Grand Guignol though, they better re-release it someday, preferably with disgusting pictures re-printed inside the booklet. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: flamerik@best.ms.philips.com Subject: Re: Tzadik re-issue Date: 20 Mar 1998 09:24:59 +0100 > > The big gundown > > spillane > > spy vs. spy > > Naked city > > These are all Elektra/Nonesuch releases, so if anything else a Tzadik > re-issue will probably make them more expensive. The HatArt Cobra is > available at normal price. Grand Guignol though, they better re-release > it someday, preferably with disgusting pictures re-printed inside the > booklet. The Big Gundown and Spillance have even been available at a discount price for some time. Normally, I pay NLG 40 for a CD, and about NLG 45 for a tzadik CD. B.G. and Spillane I've seen for NLG 24 everywhere. Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar Subject: FELDMAN & KANG Date: 20 Mar 1998 09:14:49 -0300 Hello! I'd like opinions about: MARK FELDMAN: Music for Violin Alone Tzadik 7006 EYVIND KANG:7 Nades Tzadik 7013 Thanks. Hugo, from Argentina - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glenn Astarita <gastarit@comm.net> Subject: RE: praxis Date: 19 Mar 1998 19:52:49 -0600 On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Jason Tors wrote: > I have been > told that Sacrifist is not one of the greatest Praxis albums, in which > case, could someone suggest the absolute greatest Praxis album. [Glenn Astarita] snip=20 I'd avoid _Metatron_, featuring a stripped-down trio of Buckethead, Laswell, and Brain on a disappointingly straightforward hard rock set. Chris Hamilton [Glenn Astarita] My opinion sees Metatron as perhaps Buckethead's = finest "electric" hour on record. Specifically for his trademark guitar = pyrotechnics. Its actually better than his solo cd's (IMO)....overall = the cd isn't quite as daring as the others Chris mentioned .....=20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Laura Petersen <Laura@elite.dk> Subject: copenhagen concert dates Date: 20 Mar 1998 13:57:03 +0100 (MET) Hi First time poster, long time lurker. Although this isn't much of a post..I was just wondering if anyone knew of any Zorn (or other cool) Denmark concert dates this summer? Much appreciated! Laura - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: praxis Date: 20 Mar 1998 08:41:27 -0500 >>>>> "Glenn" == Glenn Astarita <gastarit@comm.net> writes: Glenn> My opinion sees Metatron as perhaps Glenn> Buckethead's = finest "electric" hour on record. Glenn> Specifically for his trademark guitar pyrotechnics. Its Glenn> actually better than his solo cd's (IMO). I'd have to cast my vote to the new Arcana, Arc of the Testimony, for Buckethead's finest hour. This album has really grown on me, and Buckethead makes a significant contribution to a very intense and exhilarating album. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: Oswald Date: 20 Mar 1998 09:42:24 -0500 (EST) The album 'plexure' on Avant is amazing (and short - 20min.). It's the most densely sample-populated album i've ever heard... It is a collage made up of bits of what sounds like every popular song from the 80s and early 90s; the overall effect is totally unlike anything i'd heard before, and yet strangely familiar... -jascha > I have a tape of 'Plunderphonics' with a 10 min. thing attached to the > end called 'Rubaiyat' that has some manipulations of stuff by The Doors, > Metallica, etc. My tape is incredibly well-made with a color > photocopied home-made j-card with the cover art and liner notes all > there. Anyway, I'm very interested in hearing more from Oswald (is he > the same alto sax playing John Oswald?) so someone please let me know > what else is out there! Thanks. > > -Tom Pratt > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: Oswald Date: 20 Mar 1998 09:46:45 -0500 (EST) Also, his CD 'discosphere' is truely wonderful, although not in the same way as the plunderphonic stuff. It has a few 'swarming' pieces on it (if you've heard his quartet for the Kronos group off of 'short stories', then you know what this means). It also has some simple sampler type pieces on it, and ends with the glorious 17 minute 'the case of death', which is made entirely out of samples from an Agatha Christie book-on-tape. -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Walsh <MATTW@smginc.com> Subject: Praxis Date: 20 Mar 1998 11:19:00 PST <<I have been told that Sacrifist is not one of the greatest Praxis albums, in which case, could someone suggest the absolute greatest Praxis album.>> I have a copy of their first EP "1984" that I'd be glad to sell you if you're (or someone else is) interested. It IS the Subharmonic reissue. I personally don't care for it all (not because of the sound quality, I just don't care for the music itself)... then again, I think "Sacrifist" is by far their best album, even though some of the better parts on the disc are samples of other bands (Sepultura, Entombed, etc.) My advice depends on what you're looking for from Praxis, if you're looking for more of Buckethead's metal riffing, buy forward in time and pick up "Metatron". If you're looking for the funkier stuff, go backwards and pick up "Transmutation (Mutatis Mutandis)" or "1984". I haven't picked up "Transmutation Live", but hopefully will soon whenever I can find the damn thing... Later, Matthew Walsh Software Engineer - Strategic Management Group mattw@smginc.com mattmonkw@aol.com Matt's personal CD jukebox - Currently playing and annoying co-workers with: Ruins - "Hyderomastgroningem" - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Kowalski <BKowalski@genetics.com> Subject: Evan Lurie / Circle Make Date: 20 Mar 1998 12:07:59 -0500 I've just found "Pieces for Bandolen (sp)" on CD, that wonderful but hard to get hold of recording. I've also recently watched the very silly film "Il Mostro" where in Roberto Beningni does Benny Hill - meets - Jerry Lewis slap stick Italian style. Very funny for a dopey movie. But... Evan Lurie does the soundtrack and it sounds excellent. Anyone have an idea of what may be in store for Evan Lurie fans on the up coming Tdazik release? Also, anyone have a copy of "Happy? Here? Now?" they are interested in parting with. Seems it is even harder to come across than the other. happy listening - Bob ps : when is that "Circle Maker" due out. Saw it in Montreal recently and didn't bother as I knew it was going to be available widely... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?R=E9mi?= Bissonnette <rbisson@courrier.usherb.ca> Subject: Praxis Live / Company '91 Date: 20 Mar 1998 13:07:34 -0500 Going into the Praxis subject, has anybody on this list heard both "Transmutation Live" and "Live and Poland"? I have the Poland one, I thought it was pretty good but the sound quality isn't great and I find it a bit annoying that's it's just one long 70+ minute track. Anyway, how does Transmutation Live compare with it? As for Buckethead, I was wondering if anybody could describe his performance on the three volumes of "Company '91" (featuring Derek Bailey, Zorn and crew)? Or more simply, short reviews of these CDs would be interesting, since I just don't know which one to buy first (and since they're on Incus, they won't come cheap here in Canada...) Bruno R=E9mi Bissonnette Ph.D. Professeur titulaire =46acult=E9 d'=C9ducation physique et sportive Universit=E9 de Sherbrooke Sherbrooke, Qu=E9bec J1K 2R1 =20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Name Date: 18 Mar 1998 10:16:33 -0500 While going through a bunch of old press clippings, I came across this golden nugget. My question to the list is; Has anything by Name ever been released on CD? Ive got one vinyl EP, that is great, very Beefheart influenced stuff, It seems to be a private pressing, as no record co. is indicated. Also, around the same time as this gig there existed a band that was essentially Massacre+ Kaiser and T.Kondo, I believe they called it Mad World Music. Tapes anyone? Rich POST-PUNK-FUNKSION By Derk Richardson from Express magazine circa 1981 "Were going to do 20 minutes of stuff I wrote for these boys." said guitarist Fred Frith as the only introduction to his opening set with Name, Berkeley's own New York-styled "punk-funk" band. He ignored the fact that two members of the young seven-piece group are women, but individual identities seem to be of minor importance in the widening territory where punk rock, R&B, jazz, and "new music" are colliding under the influence of Talking Heads, Robert Fripp, James "Blood" UImer, James Chance and the Contortions, and other avant gardians. For the sake of flexibility and experimentation. musicians are navigating through and between groups in temporary alliances that explore different areas of the new terrain. Most of this activity is taking place in New York City, where the concentration of art school rockers, punks, and post-punks, and openmind jazz artists is the highest, and where the potential mix- ture of musical elements is therefore most combustible. But last sunday night's show at the Keystone,was evidence that the East Bay music sceneis capable of stirring upa few explosive coctails of its ownWith the infusion of a little Manhattan chemistry, the outcome was startling amalgam of rhythms, riffs, emotions, and effects. Name is composed of six youthful musicians--they appear to be in their late teens and early twenties --who grew up together near Disneyland, moved to Berkeley and; formed a band. Meeting local guitarist Henry Kaiser at one of his gigs, they asked him to fill in for an ailing member. The relationship solidified and now Kaiser is one of three electric guitarists in the group. Erling Wold and Judilh Stadtman play the other Guitars, (Wold doubling on keyboards). Lynn Murdock and Rick Crawford play electric bass. Mark Crawford plays drums, and Everett Shock adds declamatory vocals and screeching sax lines. 'Their first "20 minutes of stuff" with Frith was comprised of three compositions that gave some idea of what was to come for the rest of the evening. The set began with all the instrumentalists bouncing dlssonant chords on each other. piling up the jangled rhythms and echoing electronics into a wall of white noise. Kaiser jabbed out long piercing notes trom the high end of his guitar, and Frith, above the din, set into a surprisingly faithful single-note. melodic reading of "Dancing in the Streets." But this was not an invitation to dance The rythyms were twisted into a giant knot that held any recognizable beat in bondage. Besides, for the first time in recent memory, the dance area in front of the stage was filled with tables and chairs. Apparent]y, dancing was to take place inside the heads of the 150 or so listeners. Frith closed the piece with a short, gospel inspired rolling piano solo. The second piece started as a duet of guitar effects between Frith and Kaiser. The two have collaborated before, including their very strange With Friends like These album on Metalanguage Records, and they share an affinity for eerie, unnerving sounds that they liberate from electric guitars by untraditional means:; violin bows, mallets, and rags against strings. hand slaps against the front and back of the neck. When the band joined in, Shock was going wild on a wheeling Ace Tone organ with others around him reaching in to punch at the keys. Fnth led them out of this one with a sharply defined Scottish or Irish folk melody over a marching rhythm that walked right into a massive, door slamming ending . The first set closed wlrh a composition that built from a tight little three-guitar fugue into a mountain of ascending chords played in near unison and driven by Kaiser's Pete Tomshend-like power strumming. The band generared enough dense metallic sound to challenge. guitar for guitar. any heavy metal rock outfit on the Coliseum circuit. Again. Frith was at the top of the upward climb. trampolining crimped guitar figures off the solid en- semble roar. When, after a short break, Name returned for a set of their own material, they tore right into a series of funk-based tunes that bore a slight comparison to Talking Heads and Gang of Four but resonated with a bizarre originality. On the first number they were joined by tenor saxophonist Larry Ochs of ROVA Saxophone guartet. Och's abandoned squeals pierced through the chunky rhythms, yet fit quite amiably with the quirky jumps and turns of the song's changes, reiterating the possibilities for spontaneous interactions between the avant gardes of jazz and rock. But while Name's disjointed music sounds a great deal like the jazz improvisations of guitarist James "Blood" Ulmer or drummer Ronald Shannon Jackson, according to Kaiser, "everything is fixed --there is no improvising except for the sax solos and Mark's drumming." Yet with three guitars chopping out chords, two basses snapping out funky bottom Lines, and Crawford churning out loose- jointed polyrythmic drum patterns, Name retains a free-wheeling feel uncommon to rock bands that unleash the same punk intensity. Shock's mostly undecipherable vocals were delivered in a flattened hiccuppy style, similar to T-Heads' David Byrne, while Kaiser and the others bounced in herky-jerky pogo around the stage. As the set wore on--and when Sunday night shows don't start until nearly 10:00 ,the sets do wear on--the inherent zaniness of Name's approach softened the hard edges of the music. Song titles, like "~Willie and Tecumseh" (nominally about President William Henry Harrison and the great Northwestern Indian chief), "Safetty in Sports." "Plaid Pants." "Sandy the Pelican." and (1 think) "Rolph the Wild Surf," revealed an engaging goofiness not unlike that of Captain Beefheart or Frank Zappa. Someone in the back kept yelling for "Aquahead." which no one on stage had heard of, but Shock pretended as if it were one of their old favorites. Such a sense of humor, if not pushed to over- cleverness, is to be whole heartedly welcomed in an ambltious school of music where many self-concious artists take themselves all too seriously. When combined with an expansive outlook and adequate musicianship, it makes Name one of the most promismg bands in an otherwise relatively bleak local rock scene. Fred Frith didn't get on stage with his own band. Massacre, until midnight, but he had the good sense, and seemingly restricted repertoire, to keep his set short and to the point--five instrumental tunes in 40 minutes, and two quick encores. Known to a cult following as a founding member of the rock band, Henry Cow, Frith has made an obscure career out of exotic guitar noodlings and sonic experiments. Massacre is a "power trio," with Frith, bassist Bill Laswell, and drummer Fred Maher, and unless~you have heard James Ulmer or can imagine Jimi Hendrix meeting the Sex Pistols, Massacre could catch you completely off guard. Laswell and Maher are members of a loosely defined.New York musical collective known as Material, and in their various ramblings they have played with jazz musicians Henry Threadgill (of Air), trumpeter Olu Dara, Frank Lowe, Billy Bang, as well as punk voidoid Richard Hell. For Frith they supply a thunderous but precise rhythm section-Maher crashing through powerhouse cross-rthythms, Laswell popping his bass along R&B riffs, and ringing out melodic counterpoints to Frith's guitar (and on one tune, violin). Most of Massacre's numbers were built on amphetamine-pogo cadences, with harsh, edgy shards of melody constructed into stop- and-go Lines. Frith clawed at his strings or rubbed two guitars to- gether to create effects that bent around the corners of the music. At that late hour, the trio sounded best when it was at its simplest, achieving a slow, molten intensity. Frith, like Name, is not without humor. Returning for the first encore. he dashed off a fragment of "Tunes of Glory." before playing what could well have been a funky surf-punk version of the "Rawhide" theme. Then he came back to meet the second insistent encore call. Frith said they'd have to play "something we've already done because we don't know too many numbers, They always sound different anyway." Massacre repeated the sets first tune. and it did sound different. Thats what makes this new music as intriguing as it is unsettling. Coming up with new answers to musical questions you might not have even asked yet. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Ground Zero Date: 18 Mar 1998 11:25:24 -0800 On Wed, 18 Mar 1998 14:07:09 -0500 Caleb Deupree wrote: > > >>>>> "Matt" == Matt Walsh <MATTW@smginc.com> writes: > > Matt> By the way, I have a Ground Zero 7" called "Revolutionary > Matt> Pekinese Opera", is this the exact same as the CD?, or part > Matt> of it?, or something different completely? Please e-mail > Matt> directly unless you think it's worthwhile for the whole list > Matt> to see it. > > According to the discography at > http://www2.gol.com/users/miyuki/yotomo/yotomo.html, the 7" is version > 1.50, and the ReR CD is 1.28. There are a total of three records: - two CD pressings (which are basically the same) - one 7" 045 - KAKUMEI KYOUGEKI - REVOLUTIONARY PEKINESE OPERA: Ground Zero 1/ 6 Seconds 4 Frames 0:06 2/ Opening - Japanese Economy 9:27 3/ Consume Mao 1:32 4/ Thema Mao 1 2:05 5/ Red Mao Book 4:23 6/ Frankfurt Mao 2:00 7/ Maologue 4:52 8/ Blue Mao 7:02 9/ Ronald Mao 1:27 10/ Enka Mao 1:14 11/ Pink Mao 1:27 12/ Maology 1:28 13/ Thema Mao 2 0:51 14/ Slogan 0:51 15/ Grand Finale 1:11 16/ International 1:43 17/ 5 Seconds 4 Frame 0:06 Recorded and mixed by Kondo Yoshiaki at GOK SOUND, Tokyo on March 1995 Otomo Yoshihide: turntables, guitar; Uchihashi Kazuhisa: guitar, effects; Matsubara Sachiko: sampler, voice; Nasuno Mitsuru: bass; Uemura Masahiro: drums, enka keyboard; Yoshigaki Yasuhiro: drums, percussion, voice; DJ-MAO (2,3,11,13,14,17): samples; Nomoto Kazuhiro (2): bass clarinet; AYA (5): voice; Kikuchi Naruyoshi (10,13): tenor. Sampled Guests are: Original Pekinese opera groupes (all tracks, except 1,9,10,16,17); Heiner Goebbels (2,4,5,6,7,8): piano, etc; Alfred 23 Harth (2,4,5,6,7,8): sax, etc; Jon Rose (3,11): violin; Amaya Norimizu (2): telephone samples; Hashimoto Osamu (3): voice; Steve Beresford (3): voice; Rudolf Ebner (11,12): voice, etc. 1995 - Trigram (Japan), TR-P 909 (CD) 068 - REVOLUTIONARY PEKINESE OPERA VER.1.50: Ground-Zero 1/ Revolutionary Pekinese Opera Ver.1.50 (Ground-Zero) 5:55 Recorded at Gok Sound, Tokyo in March 1995 Otomo Yoshihide: turntables, guitar, voice; Uchihashi Kazuhisa: guitar, voice; Matsubara Sachiko: sampler, voice; Nasuno Mitsuru: bass, voice; Yoshigaki Yasuhiro: drums, voice; Uemura Masahiro: drums, voice; Kikuchi Naruyoshi: sax; Tanaka Yumiko: Gidayu-shamisen, voice. 2/ Live 1992 (Ground-Zero) 0:59 Recorded live at 20000V, Tokyo on March 1, 1992 Otomo Yoshihide: turntables, guitar; Yamantaka Eye: voice; Hirose Junji: sax; Kato Hideki: bass; Uemura Masahiro: drums. 1996 - Gentle Giant Records (USA), gg701 (7") 070 - KAKUMEI KYOGEKI VER. 1.28 - REVOLUTIONARY PEKINESE OPERA: Ground Zero 1/ Opening - Flying Across the J.P.Yen 9:29 2/ Consume Mao 1:33 3/ Rush Capture of the Revolutionary Opera -1 2:05 4/ Red Mao Book by Sony 4:23 5/ Crossing Frankfurt Four Times 2:02 6/ The Glory Hong Kong - Kabukicho Conference 4:53 7/ Paraiso -1 7:03 8/ Announcing Good News from the West 0:40 9/ Revolutionary Enka 2001 1:15 10/ Grand Pink Junction Ballad 1:27 11/ Crossing Snow Mountains with Yamaha Bike 1:29 12/ Rush Capture of the Revolutionary Opera -2 0:51 13/ Yellow Army, Beloved of the Various Nationalities 0:52 14/ Triumphant Junction(Grand Finale) 1:07 15/ International - Epilogue 2:49 16/ Paraiso - 2 5:36 Recorded and mixed by Kondo Yoshiaki at GOK SOUND, Tokyo on March 1995 Otomo Yoshihide: turntables, guitar; Uchihashi Kazuhisa: guitar, effects; Matsubara Sachiko: sampler, voice (10); Nasuno Mitsuru: bass; Uemura Masahiro: drums, enka keyboard (9); Yoshigaki Yasuhiro: drums, percussion, voice (10,11); DJ-MAO (1,2,10,12,13,16): samples; Nomoto Kazuhiro (1): bass clarinet; AYA (4): voice; Kikuchi Naruyoshi (9,12,13,14): tenor; Mao singers (13,14). Sampled Guests are: Original Pekinese opera groupes; Heiner Goebbels: piano, etc; Alfred 23 Harth: sax, etc; Jon Rose (2,10): violin; Amaya Norimizu (1): telephone samples; Hashimoto Osamu (2): voice; Steve Beresford (2): voice; Rudolf Ebner (10,11): voice, etc; COMPOSTERA (3); Tanaka Yumiko (1,13,14): voice, syamisen; Christian Marclay (15,16): record without cover. 1996 - ReR Megacorp (U.K), ReR GZ1(CD) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen drury <stevedrury@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #264 Date: 20 Mar 1998 18:09:02 -0500 > >Does anyone know of any concertos (from any musical period) with 4 >movements rather than the usual 3? The only one I can think of off the top >of my head is Brahms' 2nd piano concerto. > The Busoni Piano Concerto has something like 5, I think. Zorn's Piano Concerto "Aporias -- Requia for Piano and Orchestra" has 9 or 10 movements; I played the thing and I still can't remember how many.... -- steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Gretz <KGGF@grove.iup.edu> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #265 Date: 20 Mar 1998 19:45:33 -0500 (EST) Wasn't Filmworks and Elektra/Nonesuch release also? that got released though. I'd just like to have all of zorn's stuff on one handy label. and around here it seems the Tzadik stuff is just as much as the other cd's. (sometimes cheaper) i got filmworks III for 12.99. not bad. considering the average price is 14.99 jeff - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: HatArt catalog online Date: 20 Mar 1998 19:53:37 -0500 Just a quick shout out to let you know that the HatArt catalog is now on line: http://www.hathut.com/ I don't have anything to do with it, I just got word from Ellery Eskelin who heard it from Werner Uehlinger in Europe. Nice looking site but I've not explored yet. Ellery and trio have just done a new disc for them due in August, "Kulak 29 & 30." Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Albert Ayler Date: 20 Mar 1998 20:12:55 -0500 Doug McKay wrote: > I've got "Spiritual Unity" ('64) and "New York Eye and Ear Control" ('64). > The other ESP albums are "Vibrations" ('64), "Spirits Rejoice" ('65), > "Bells: At Town Hall" (65), "At Slugs Saloon, vols. 1&2" ('66). > > Here's my question. Are these ESP albums I don't have some of his best, or > can I bypass some to afford some of his others? "Bells" is certainly worth having and the disc comes with another album's worth of material tacked on (it was originally a one-sided LP). But here's my 2 cents worth, and this is as a major league Ronald Shannon Jackson fan: the two "Slug's" volumes sound atrocious and are really for completists. Skip them and spend the money on "Vibrations" on Freedom and "In Greenwich Village" on Impulse, and if you have enough left over get "Love Cry" on Impulse too, mainly for the incredible contributions of Milford Graves. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #265 Date: 20 Mar 1998 20:17:36 -0500 Jeff Gretz wrote: > Wasn't Filmworks and Elektra/Nonesuch release also? Nonesuch licensed "Filmworks" from the Japanese Eva label, so when the license ran out Zorn was able to get the disc back from them. ("Locus Solus," "Kristallnacht" and "Elegy" were also Eva releases that Zorn was able to recover, but while we got the Tzadik versions the Japanese got versions on the new Evva label.) "The Big Gundown," "Spillane," "Spy vs. Spy" and "Naked City" are all owned outright by Nonesuch, and aren't likely to be given away. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Peter Cline <pmc7288@is.nyu.edu> Subject: Re: A Question For All You Music Scholars Out There Date: 20 Mar 1998 22:07:01 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Julian wrote: > simply for my own interest: > > Does anyone know of any concertos (from any musical period) with 4 > movements rather than the usual 3? The only one I can think of off the top > of my head is Brahms' 2nd piano concerto. All 3 recordings of Shostakovich concertos that I have, Piano No. 1, Cello No. 1 and Violin No. 1 are in 4 movements Schittke's Concerto Grosso No. 5 is in 4 movements Gubaidulina's Concerto for bassoon and low strings is in 5 movements. Maybe it's a soviet russian thing? -Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org> Subject: Re: Praxis Date: 20 Mar 1998 18:17:40 -0800 At 11:19 AM 3/20/98 PST, Matt Walsh wrote: >I haven't >picked up "Transmutation Live", but hopefully will soon whenever I can >find the damn thing... Borders seems to be the most likely place, although by now they may have sold their stock. Douglas really didn't distribute this (or _Asana_) in the US. There probably won't be much more Laswell coming out on Douglas, seems like things have gone into limbo. The Raoul Bjorkenheim/Nicky Skopelitis CD, which is probably the best thing Douglas was going to put out is definitely homeless... Jeff Spirer B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nathaniel Dorward <ndorward@is2.dal.ca> Subject: Braxton House Date: 21 Mar 1998 02:12:05 -0400 (AST) Perhaps the Braxtonites out there could suggest which discs on Braxton's own label, Braxton House, are worth searching out. How's the music (and the sound-quality) on these discs? Or perhaps one should stick with the Hat Art and Leo releases--plenty there already... --N * Nate Dorward (ndorward@is2.dal.ca) website: http://is2.dal.ca/~ndorward/ * And I hear what's missing there music is core of the missing the code of fly time --Clark Coolidge - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Craig Rath <fripp@ibm.net> Subject: Concertos Date: 21 Mar 1998 01:34:27 -0600 > simply for my own interest: > > Does anyone know of any concertos (from any musical period) with 4 > movements rather than the usual 3? The only one I can think of off the top > of my head is Brahms' 2nd piano concerto. I have at least one with 4 movements: Ligeti: Chamber concerto for 13 instrumentalists and a few I have with less: Saint-Saens - Piano Concerto #4 - 2 movements Krzysztof Penderecki - Cello Concerto #2, Violin Concerto, Concerto for Viola and Orchestra - all one movement each. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: frenesi <frenesi@ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: Belew On Skins Date: 21 Mar 1998 06:02:05 -0800 Keith McMullen wrote: > Why might Robert Fripp be able to stand playing in a trio with adrian belew > on drums? In Projekt 2, Fripp and Gunn are stellar, but it is so hard to > ignore Belew pounding sophomorically on the drums. help me somebody. > > keith > > - saw them in santa cruz last night...tho i would agree with you about the level of adrians drums, his enthusiam imho went a long way to making it a most enjoyable evening for me (to me, a welcome relief to roberts stoicism...). on the darshan-like segments, adrian held his own. fripp and trey, as you say, were breathtaking... rich - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Praxis Live / Company '91 Date: 21 Mar 1998 21:12:40 +1100 << Going into the Praxis subject, has anybody on this list heard both "Transmutation Live" and "Live and Poland"? I have the Poland one, I thought it was pretty good but the sound quality isn't great and I find it a bit annoying that's it's just one long 70+ minute track. Anyway, how does Transmutation Live compare with it? >> Well, I think Transmutation Live has pretty good sound quality. It's got 4 tracks at approximately 15 minutes each called Movement 1, 2, 3 and 4. And the material's pretty cool too, but with quite a bit of turntable scratching. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Cobra Date: 21 Mar 1998 21:39:41 +1100 A friend of mine told me she was a part of a performance similar to Cobra a few years ago, and I think they actually called it "John Zorn's Cobra". So what I am wondering is, is there any specific procedure for putting on one of these performances? Is it considered an infringement of copyright or something? I need information... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nils Jacobson <JACOBSON@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu> Subject: Re: Bible Launcher Date: 21 Mar 1998 05:55:37 +0100 Yes, Radical House actually exists and will send this to you. It's most excellent. Highly recommended. Only $10. -Nils - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel) Subject: Re: Praxis Date: 21 Mar 1998 12:07:05 +0100 > On Thu, 19 Mar 1998, Jason Tors wrote: > > > I have been > > told that Sacrifist is not one of the greatest Praxis albums, in which > > case, could someone suggest the absolute greatest Praxis album. > [Glenn Astarita] snip=20 > I'd avoid _Metatron_, featuring a stripped-down trio of > Buckethead, Laswell, and Brain on a disappointingly straightforward hard > rock set. > > Chris Hamilton > > > [Glenn Astarita] My opinion sees Metatron as perhaps Buckethead's = > finest "electric" hour on record. Specifically for his trademark guitar = > pyrotechnics. Its actually better than his solo cd's (IMO)....overall = > the cd isn't quite as daring as the others Chris mentioned .....=20 Finally! I thought I would be alone with loving _Metatron_, which I think is the finest Praxis' CD. It has beautiful melodies, great riffs, strange and fascinating sounds and wonderful soloing by Buckethead. "Wake the Dead" is really beautiful. "Cathedral Space", "Warm Time Machine/..." and "Double Vision" are so athmospheric and scary, and "Meta-Matic" and "Triad" have superb riffs, plus they don't develop like you expect (in a conventional metal/hardrock manner). _Transmutation_ is also great. Many of the tunes are really majestetic, e.g. "Dead Man Walking", "Giant Robot", "The Interworld and the New Innocence". There's so much stuff going on there that I always hear something new on this disc, even after listening to it more than 50 times! Try to hear all sounds in "Giant Robot" for an example. Plus the great "Animal Behaviour" (funky, even my mom likes it) and "Crash Victim/Black Science Navigator", which moves from a great hard-rock riff with funky/jazzy clavinet in the background to hip-hop scratching. Finally, "After Shock (Chaos Never Died)" is so wonderfully strange (kind of sounds like your CD has scratches). _Sacrifist_ is my least favorite Praxis CD, even though it has its moments. The "Iron Dub" is cool, "Rivet" is from hell, "The Hook" has 'chemical beats' (I love 'em) combined with Zorn's squeaking and a slashing riff. The latter two also have the right doses of Y.Eye, who just makes the other songs a bit too aggressive for me. Trash metal is aggressive enough, and the squeaking and screaming make it go over the top. Nothing wrong with that; when I'm in the right mood these tracks make me *high*, especially "Nine Secrets". And Worrell's closing "Crossing" is so spooky and droning and demented. But all in all, _Sacrifist_ is the one I don't listen to very often, contrary to the others. I haven't heard "1984", "Transmutation Live" or "Live In Poland" yet. - Chris. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob DeNunzio <zorn@gladstone.uoregon.edu> Subject: Re: Praxis Live / Company '91 Date: 21 Mar 1998 03:29:37 -0800 At 09:12 PM 3/21/98 +1100, Julian wrote: ><< Going into the Praxis subject, has anybody on this list heard both >"Transmutation Live" and "Live and Poland"? I have the Poland one, I >thought it was pretty good but the sound quality isn't great and I find it >a bit annoying that's it's just one long 70+ minute track. Anyway, how >does Transmutation Live compare with it? >> > >Well, I think Transmutation Live has pretty good sound quality. It's got 4 >tracks at approximately 15 minutes each called Movement 1, 2, 3 and 4. And >the material's pretty cool too, but with quite a bit of turntable >scratching. I liked the Transmutation Live album a bit. I did both a review of it and posted some sound files: http://www.teleport.com/~hifim Can't say I know the live in Poland CD. Any more info out there? Rob DeNunzio Hi-Fi Mundo - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Uncle Meat <jf.lamarre@sympatico.ca> Subject: john zorn/jean derome Date: 21 Mar 1998 12:14:58 -0500 Hi there, i don't know if any of you are familiar with Jean Derome, but here in Quebec he's sort of at the forefront of the avant-guard music scene (here we call it musique actuelle). You could say that Jean Derome and John Zorn have some points in common : they both are avant-guard composers and improvisers, they play sax and they're both great at what they do. I just bought Derome's latest "3 Musique pour UBU" (3 musics for UBU). Now, when i got to the 11th track "lueurs" on the first cd , i was astonished that the last minute and a half of this piece sounds pretty much like Zorn's Redbird. I don't know if any of you had the chance to hear both tracks, but if so i'd like to know what you think of this. By the way, Jean Derome composed this piece in 1990, and Redbird was released in 1995, but maybe it was composed earlier. There's no such thing as a bad coincidence!(lost highway) Uncle Meat - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john shiurba <shiurba@sfo.com> Subject: Re: Kaiser Date: 20 Mar 1998 00:26:17 -0700 > I know that some of you out there have the (Y)earbooks. Can someone explain > to me what Henry Kaiser is doing on the first track to get those weird and > wonderful sounds? > he appears to be using a pitch transposer (with jumps of a 5th, and octave) with a momentary on/off switch. then near the end of the piece, it seems he's using a long delay so that you hear what he's just played, but transposed. this explanation seems consistent with what i've seen him do in live situations. if you like this piece, you should check out "it's a wonderful life" -- shiurba@sfo.com http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: Evan Lurie / Circle Make Date: 21 Mar 1998 16:20:56 -0500 > ps : when is that "Circle Maker" due out. Saw it in Montreal recently and > didn't bother as I knew it was going to be available widely... Well I bought mine today (as well as the Toy's Factory LENG TCH'E which I found used for $8) and it's great as expected! -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: Kaiser Date: 21 Mar 1998 16:25:30 -0500 john shiurba wrote: > > > I know that some of you out there have the (Y)earbooks. Can someone explain > > to me what Henry Kaiser is doing on the first track to get those weird and > > wonderful sounds? > > > he appears to be using a pitch transposer (with jumps of a 5th, and octave) with a > momentary on/off switch. then near the end of the piece, it seems he's using a long > delay so that you hear what he's just played, but transposed. this explanation seems > consistent with what i've seen him do in live situations. if you like this piece, you > should check out "it's a wonderful life" Kaiser has an instructional video called 'Eclectic Electric' in which he dedicates a large portion demonstraing a lot of the various effects/techniques he uses. It's not really an "instructional" video per se but is more of an "inspirational" video. It has some great Kaiser performances on it as well. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Steve Beresford Date: 21 Mar 1998 17:10:39 -0500 (EST) I just noticed that an album by this guy, 'Signals for Tea', has Masada as a backing band. What's it like? For that matter: what is Steve Beresford's music like, in general? I've never heard it. -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Masada Date: 21 Mar 1998 17:11:46 -0500 (EST) Does Circle Maker include the band's version of 'kol nidre'(sp)? -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: creative music for newbies Date: 21 Mar 1998 17:31:47 -0500 (EST) Have you ever heard Skinny Puppy? They could bridge the gap between conventional loud, angry, (quite possibly stupid?) music to the far more interesting lands of electronic/electroacoustic experimentalism. They did for me, at any rate, back in early high-school, when the album 'Too Dark Park' convinced me that heavy metal was a lost cause. -jascha , who still listens to Skinny Puppy, and has long since sold off his heavy metal tapes. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Steve Beresford Date: 22 Mar 1998 11:43:57 +1100 > I just noticed that an album by this guy, 'Signals for Tea', has Masada as > a backing band. What's it like? I don't really like it. The instrumental tracks (I think there are three, from memory) are the best, but really it's pretty much straight jazz, no hint of the rich jams that Masada has. I've got it hidden away somewhere and haven't listened to it since the end of last year when I got it, so maybe I should give it a second chance. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: musique concrete Date: 21 Mar 1998 23:00:41 -0500 All the discussion this week about Oswald, Mimaroglu, Parmegiani, et al., has kept me thinking. I consider myself a big fan of this type of music, yet the number of individual items in my collection as compared to everything else is relatively small. I do have Mimaroglu's Wings of the Delerious Demon on vinyl, as well as Parmegiani's Creation du Monde on CD, but I ended up thinking more about the some other issues relating to this music. One problem is that it's nearly impossible to find. Anomalous Records has the best supply I've seen lately, but I'd love to be able to walk into a store and impulse buy some musique concrete. The best Towers only have a few tired selections, and even the classics are out of print. This means my collection is more sporadic and less focused, as my music purchasing resources get drained off into one of the many other areas of interest. And even though I have a couple dozen musique concrete CDs, they are either compilations or singletons (meaning I have only one album by the composer). When I mail order new ones, I tend to order pieces by new composers rather than more CDs by artists I already have. Does anyone out there have more than one or two Francois Bayle CDs, for example (INA-GRM is releasing his complete works, now up to volume 10, but I've only got one)? As a result, I have little idea whether composers have stylistic characteristics that are evident from one work to the next. One of the pleasures of listening to John Zorn's output over the last 20 years is the evolution of his music, from the early game pieces to the recent minimalist works to the film music, and yet much of his music is instantly recognizable as being his (more true for his sax work than the minimal compositions, but you get my drift). I'm not sure I can say this for musique concrete. Even with a composer with whom I'm relatively familiar at different periods, Stockhausen, I wouldn't necessarily know that Kontakte, Hymnen, and Telemusik were all by him, nor can I discern stylistic traits running through them (although I can through his work as a whole). All you who have the complete Bayle set, are there recognizable traits and discernable growth running through all the works, especially when compared to other concretists? Maybe I'm a minority of one, and many of you have collections of musique concrete to parallel the complete Masadas. What would you consider essential musique concrete? What recent purchases are interesting (or not) and why? For essentials, I'd have to put Stockhausen's Telemusik at the top of the list, one of my all time favorite pieces. I wish it were on CD at an affordable price. The combination of wispy radio noises and smatterings of music from different cultures (and long before samples too), combined with a fairly clear structure delimited by Japanese wood blocks, has always moved me. My favorite Xenakis piece is La legende d'Eer (Montaigne), a stunning, dense cloud of sound which builds from very tiny noises to a huge roar and then back to the tiny sounds. I've heard good things about the recent EMF compilation of his earlier works, but I've only heard the Nonesuch vinyl release, which is too scratched up to enjoy. The Canadian label Empreintes Digitales and their relatives has some very impressive pieces. I am in awe of Paul Dolden's Threshold of Deafening Silence, another huge cloud of sound, but it's almost too intense to listen to very often. I play Robert Normandeau's Tangram album much more often. He combines found sounds with the electronics, including such elements as children's voices, to great effect. However, I continue to be disappointed by the highly regarded disk by Hildegard Westerkamp, which includes a poetry reading and a sonic documentary, complete with narration, which IMHO just gets in the way of the music. My most recent concrete purchase is Francois Dhomont's Frankenstein Symphony (Asphodel), a cacophonous trawl through other recent concrete works the way Oswald's plunderphonics treats pop music. Mind you, I don't get the references in Frankenstein the way I do with Plexure, but it's an enjoyable ride nonetheless. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ScottRussell <ScottRussell@scottishmedia.com> Subject: juke/19 Date: 22 Mar 1998 09:43:36 -0000 --MimeMultipartBoundary Content-Type: text/plain OK here's a poser for all fans of Japanese mayhem. Yesterday I picked up a 5 cd box by a band called Juke/19 on the Time Bomb label. It's a retrospective of their work from the late 70's and early 80's. I know nothing about them at all. They sound kind of like Musica Transonic if they had been influenced by Ubu, Beefheart and UK punk rather than Blue Cheer and Hendrix! There are copious notes but they are all in Japanese. I have noticed the odd reference to the Boredoms and Yamatsuka. The music is quite intriguing in a lo-fi way. Very experimental, sometimes short songs, some lengthy soundscapes and a mixture of punk/thrash and krautrock-like ensemble styles. Anybody know anything else? I'd love to know more. Scott Russell --MimeMultipartBoundary-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: philz <zampino@panix.com> Subject: Re: john zorn/jean derome Date: 22 Mar 1998 10:57:15 -0500 uncle meat writes: > i don't know if any of you are familiar with Jean Derome, but here >in Quebec he's sort of at the forefront of the avant-guard music scene >(here we call it musique actuelle). You could say that Jean Derome and >John Zorn have some points in common : they both are avant-guard >composers and improvisers, they play sax and they're both great at what >they do. I just bought Derome's latest "3 Musique pour UBU" (3 musics >for UBU). Now, when i got to the 11th track "lueurs" on the first cd , >i was astonished that the last minute and a half of this piece sounds >pretty much like Zorn's Redbird. I don't know if any of you had the >chance to hear both tracks, but if so i'd like to know what you think of >this. > > By the way, Jean Derome composed this piece in 1990, and Redbird was >released in 1995, but maybe it was composed earlier. > > There's no such thing as a bad coincidence!(lost highway) As another Derome fan I can't recommend his music enough. The aforementioned Ubu piece is amazing, a show I wish I had been fortunate enough to see, though the music on the Ubu cd speaks for itself. Derome is an extremely well rounded musician/composer and his playing and sense of dynamics amazes me. As well as his excellent sense of humour, which appears to be pretty twisted- check the Derome/Lussier records. He works with a lot of tonality and mood settings, borrowing liberally from all sorts of musical genres and putting them together in very unique ways. Derome and his wife Joanne Hetu (Wondeur Brass/Justine/solo) are the core of Ambience Magnetique, a label from Canada that I've been following for the last couple of years. They also carry releases from Rene Lussier, Diane Labrosse, and Robert Lepage, amongst a large catalog of others. A good starting point is probably the Derome/Lussier collaboration records, though I have yet to hear any Derome solo record that I don't like (and, incidentally, the Lussier solo records are pretty much uniformly interesting and excellent). BTW, I find these releases difficult to find in the US, but all of the Ambience Magnetique releases are available from Verge records http://www.ptbo.igs.net/~verge/index.htm with a nice discount from a favourable US exchange rate. philz - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Silent Watcher" <silent_watcher@hotmail.com> Subject: Yikes! Date: 22 Mar 1998 08:21:29 PST Hey all, I found this at Koch's website. Hope it's of interest to some of you... YIKES is a new label formed by Peter Wetherbee, former A&R / Label Manager of Axiom/Island Records, and former GM of the Miami-based Coconut Grove label. During his four-year stint at Axiom, Wetherbee oversaw the creative execution and marketing of some 50 albums with Bill Laswell, with an additional 22 Axiom releases through Polygram Label Group Distribution. Between tenures at Axiom and CGRC, Wetherbee also set up the initial releases and helped found the Tzadik label with John Zorn, distributed by KOCH International. YIKES Records debuts with two World Music projects: Tribu Kemistri, an asian fusion of ethnic music with pop and rock songs, led by Mike Hanopol, one of SE Asia╣s greatest rock guitar legends since the early 1970╣s. The second project is by one of the world╣s great master drummers from Ghana, Kwaku Kwaakye Obeng. The debut recording is called Awakening. This recording is a percussion-only album of deep trance, dance, funk and healing music on which Kwaku performs an assortment of ancient and modern drums, bells, rattles, and even a trap kit. These two releases are slated for February 20th, 1998. Other mainstream pop and ambient projects will be released in March of 1998 and will include artists such as Steve Rossiter, and Cypher 7 (Alex Haas and Jeff Bova). Alex and Jeff have both been awarded Grammys and Platinum albums for past work in the industry. Bova received a Record Of The Year Grammy for producing Celine Dion; Haas engineered and mixed Eric Clapton╣s Tears In Heaven. Later on in the year we will see releases from Bill Laswell╣s Praxis; the band Tift, a silky folk and soul group; and the Tetrakyts, who will be laying down some organic ambient funk. Compass Records was founded in 1995 by banjoist Alison Brown and bassist / producer Garry West. Over the past three years Compass has built an impressive catalog of twenty two titles and, unlike many artist-run labels, its founders continue to be involved in the day-to-day operations of the label while maintaining active performing careers. Brown and West launched the Compass label with the premiere recording │Songs from the Levee,▓ a debut recording by Southern singer / songwriter Kate Campbell. That album quickly established the fledgling Compass as a label to watch. In 1996, Compass scored an indie hit with │A Show of Hands,▓ the debut solo recording by Victor Wooten, (bassist for Bela Fleck and the Flecktones), and received two nominations from the National Association of Independent Record Distributors (NAIRD). Releases from folk poet Pierce Pettis, bluegrasser Judith Edelman and Brit rocker Clive Gregson rounded out the label╣s already eclectic catalog. In their third year Compass Records was voted Best Independent Label of the Year by the readers of The Nashville Scene. New Releases in 1997 included a second release titled │Moonpie Dreams▓ from Kate Campbell, │In the Country of Country,▓ a collection of great country songs by various artists which is the companion CD to the book of the same title published by Pantheon Press, and finally │What Did He Say?,▓ by Victor Wooten, the critically acclaimed bassist. The first releases through KOCH will be the Compass debut of label co-founder Alison Brown and contemporary bluegrass instrumentalist Matt Flinner. As of January 1st, 1998, Compass Records will be distributed by KOCH International. Both DIW Records and YIKES will commence distribution in February of 1998. SW For Sale/Want List and Laswell Discography at http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Spirer <jeffs@hyperreal.org> Subject: Re: Yikes! Date: 22 Mar 1998 08:46:28 -0800 At 08:21 AM 3/22/98 PST, Silent Watcher wrote: >YIKES Records debuts with two World Music projects: Tribu Kemistri, an=20 >asian fusion of ethnic music with pop Interesting description. It's Filipino music. Maybe Koch decided that "Asian" was a more catchy word. >second project is by one of the world=B9s great master drummers from=20 >Ghana, Kwaku Kwaakye Obeng. The debut >recording is called Awakening.=20 Both of these are great recordings, although the first may be a little bit too poppy for many of the people on this list. The Obeng is somewhat minimalist, and probably has more appeal (at least here.) Pete is an excellent producer, and they are extremely well-recorded. Jeff Spirer B&W Photos: http://www.pomegranates.com Color and B&W Photos: http://www.hyperreal.org/~jeffs/gallery.html Axiom/Material: http://www.hyperreal.org/axiom/ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Caulfield Bivins <jbivins@indiana.edu> Subject: Company 91 Date: 22 Mar 1998 12:11:01 -0500 (EST) Impressions on this one are varied, but I'd say that volume 1 is generally worth the investment. There are fine contributions from Bailey, Zorn, and especially from Vanessa Mackness. Buckethead plays with staggering technique, as usual, but this isn't always so effective musically. Still an interesting document of "worlds colliding", as it were. Jason Bivins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Caulfield Bivins <jbivins@indiana.edu> Subject: Braxton House Date: 22 Mar 1998 12:14:22 -0500 (EST) Hi, I don't remember who asked about Braxton House, but I feel compelled to issue something of a warning. I had to review a pile of these for Cadence last month and I was sorely underwhelmed. As a huge AB fan, I think these are less than essential documents. True, they're continuous with portions of his earlier work and they contain some fine individual playing from Kevin Norton and Roland Dahinden; but I find them musically flat -- unwavering tempi, unsatisfying group interaction, little of compositional interest. Go for the Hat Huts, the Leos, the creative orchestra stuff first. Jason Bivins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian & Sharon Beuchaw <beuchaw@enteract.com> Subject: Re: juke/19 Date: 22 Mar 1998 11:25:52 -0600 (CST) On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, ScottRussell wrote: > Anybody know anything else? I'd love to know more. > > Scott Russell www.forcedexposure.com has a little description of their stuff. Hope this helps.... cya brian "The most dementing of all modern sins: the inability to distinguish excellence from success." - David Hare - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: musique concrete Date: 22 Mar 1998 17:13:47 -0500 (EST) > Maybe I'm a minority of one, and many of you have collections of musique > concrete to parallel the complete Masadas. What would you consider > essential musique concrete? What recent purchases are interesting (or not) > and why? The guy whose alias is DJ Spooky (i don't know his real name) has edited a few complilations of electroacoustic music, the most recent being a 3CD set called 'a swarm of drones'. The previous two are a 2 CD and single CD release, entitled 'a storm of drones' and 'a throne of drones' or some such thing. They're on a label called 'sombient', which is DJ spooky's label, i think. Things brings up the question of whether to make a distinction between prjects like the above, or "bands" such as Zoviet France,the Hafler Trio, Nurse With Wound, and the more 'accademic' electroacoustic composers such as Stockhausen. Some albums by NWW (not all) are very much in this vein, anything the Hafler Trio does certainly is, and Zoviet France could be seen as being the electroacoustic equivalent of punk rock, etc... In the case of all of these "bands", there is a very clear musical progression, as well as very distinctive styles. (The albums are also easier to find, since they're distrubuted more like rock albums than 'new music' albums, which is another whole topic by itself...). As well, some of what gets called 'ambient' these days has a very strong influence from the musicque concrete tradition. Any thoughts on this? -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Doug McKay" <mckay003@maroon.tc.umn.edu> Subject: A Fistful of Film Music Date: 22 Mar 1998 16:53:44 The Ennio Morricone Anthology. I got this yesterday. Actually I went to the store to get some Ayler, had Bells/Prophecy in my hand, then picked Zorn's Film Music IV (S/m), but then thought to look for Morricone and found this. I couldn't afford all, so came home with the Morricone. (I was in a Spaghetti Western mood.) My cat likes it. He got between the speakers just right today and didn't move for quite a while, his ears alert and reacting to the musical changes. I like it too. It's a 2 CD set put out by Rhino in '95. I don't know if there are other collections I might have liked even more, though. There are a few selections I cringed at: specifically Joan Baez singing on two from the film Sacco & Vanzetti, and Jackie Eaton singing on one from The Ballad of Hank McCain. I could have done without any singing. It comes as an interruption, for me. Incidently, can anyone give an impression of what Zorn's Film Music IV is like? All I've heard is his first. Doug McKay In Minnesota - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Schoof/Pilz Date: 22 Mar 1998 17:13:14 -0500 I picked up Manfred Schoof's 1976 ECM LP 'Scales' and really dig the bass clarinet playing by Michel Pilz. The LP is decent. Schoof and Pilz are excellent but there is a really cheesy keyboardist (something that seems to contaminate a lot of ECM releases). Anyway, I was wondering if anybody knows where I can hear some more bass clarinet playing from Pilz because he rips on this LP in a very Dolphy-esque style. Has anyone besides me noticed any striking similarities between Manfred Schoof and Dave Douglas? I'll take any Schoof recommendations while I'm at it also. Thanks. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: musique concrete Date: 22 Mar 1998 17:21:30 -0500 > The guy whose alias is DJ Spooky (i don't know his real name) has edited a > few complilations of electroacoustic music, the most recent being a 3CD > set called 'a swarm of drones'. His real name is Paul D. Miller and he also took part in the fairly recent recording of Xenakis's KRAANERG by the ST-X Ensemble on Sombient/Asphodel which is great! KRAANERG is one of my all-time favorites by Xenakis and in general. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: Cobra>>>Phlegm Date: 23 Mar 1998 17:03:47 +1100 (EST) On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, Julian wrote: > A friend of mine told me she was a part of a performance similar to Cobra a > few years ago, and I think they actually called it "John Zorn's Cobra". So > what I am wondering is, is there any specific procedure for putting on one > of these performances? Is it considered an infringement of copyright or > something? I need information... > That'd probably be the performances of Cobra organised by Phlegm's Oren Ambarchi and Rob Avenaim in Sydney for the first What Is Music? festival (I'm guessing, of course). By that stage, I think they'd both played with Zorn in NY in some Radical Jewish Culture events: in any case, they'd met him, asked for permission to perform Cobra out here, and received instructions on its performance from him. So far as I know, Cobra exists as a process-score (as opposed to ants-on-a-page), and Zorn is v happy for people to perform it. Patton and pals from Mr Bungle gave a performance of it down here in Melbourne, late '96. BTW: can I express my delight with Phlegm's "Milkin' and Poppin'" CD? Name your superlative - to these ears, this is the most exciting local release in too long an age. Their next release rumoured to be on the Radical Jewish Culture series. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: Steve Beresford Date: 23 Mar 1998 17:11:04 +1100 (EST) On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, ia zha nah er vesen wrote: > For that matter: what is Steve Beresford's music like, in general? I've > never heard it. > Hey there, difficult to characterise Mr Beresford's work in a simple, reductive way: he makes as many different kinds of music as people like Otomo Yoshihide or John Zorn. Some of his soundtrack work is collected on 'Cue Sheets' - wonderful, varied stuff. His duo w Otomo is bonkers and *fab*. A lot of improvisation with Anglo/Euro free musicians (some work with the EX that I haven't heard, but sounds v exciting!). Also: work in groups like The Slits, The Flying Lizards, New Age Steppers (all highly recommended!). Deadly Weapons, which I haven't heard but is apparently pretty great. Oh, and v much more. Essentially, tho', what I love about this character's work is his gentle whimsy. A bit like S/H&W in that sense (even if they sound nothing alike). I'm sure someone else can profer a more searching analysis... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: juke/19>>>shinro ohtake Date: 23 Mar 1998 17:19:17 +1100 (EST) On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, ScottRussell wrote: > OK > > Anybody know anything else? I'd love to know more. Not so crazy about the 19 stuff myself, but main-man Shinro Ohtake newest thing is (or was - damned if I can keep up, really) Puzzle Punks with Yamatsuka Eye (Oh: and I guess you all know now that Eye hurt his legs in a car accident a little while back?) which is very fantastic in a destroyed kind of style. Also: I remember seeing some of Shinro Ohtake's artwork at the First Asia-Pacific Trienialle at the Queensland Art Gallery in Brisbane (not too sure of the year, tho - allow me a moment to pause for reflection). Scrapbooks of v funky collage-work, analogous to this music in some ways, maybe: but very appealing in a bold, brut sort-of style. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: Steve Beresford(2) Date: 23 Mar 1998 17:21:35 +1100 (EST) On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, James Douglas Knox wrote: > Also: work in groups like The Slits, The Flying Lizards, New Age Steppers > (all highly recommended!). Deadly Weapons, which I haven't heard but is Oh: I forgot to mention African Headcharge, and sundry other On-U things... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: rhythm and noise Date: 23 Mar 1998 17:23:59 +1100 (EST) On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, Tom Pratt wrote: > > The guy whose alias is DJ Spooky (i don't know his real name) has edited a > > few complilations of electroacoustic music, the most recent being a 3CD > > set called 'a swarm of drones'. > Actually, I think these 3 compilations were put together by Naut Haumon, who used to be in Rhythm and Noise. > His real name is Paul D. Miller and he also took part in the fairly > recent recording of Xenakis's KRAANERG by the ST-X Ensemble on > Sombient/Asphodel which is great! KRAANERG is one of my all-time > favorites by Xenakis and in general. > > -Tom Pratt > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: a rancid amoeba <rancid@best.com> Subject: Re: rhythm and noise Date: 22 Mar 1998 22:29:37 -0800 (PST) > > > > The guy whose alias is DJ Spooky (i don't know his real name) has edited a > > > few complilations of electroacoustic music, the most recent being a 3CD > > > set called 'a swarm of drones'. > > > Actually, I think these 3 compilations were put together by Naut Haumon, > who used to be in Rhythm and Noise. > Does anybody know who Naut co-founded Asphodel and Sombient with? Is it Spooky (although I kinda doubt it)? chanel ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ http://www.arancidamoeba.com/ rancid@best.com r e c o r d l a b e l s o n t h e w e b future home of a rancid amoeba records - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: rhythm and noise Date: 23 Mar 1998 17:34:56 +1100 (EST) On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, a rancid amoeba wrote: > > Actually, I think these 3 compilations were put together by Naut Haumon, > > who used to be in Rhythm and Noise. > > > Does anybody know who Naut co-founded Asphodel and Sombient with? > Is it Spooky (although I kinda doubt it)? > So far as I know, it is he. You might be able to find some info at the Asphodel website, maybe. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mason Wendell &/or Megan Gass <prelapse@tiac.net> Subject: Sigmoid Flexure 3/29 Date: 23 Mar 1998 01:33:37 -0500 Howdy folks! Sigmoid Flexure will be playing this Sunday (3/29) at Jacques. The band features members of Prelapse (Tzadik rec.), Blinder, and Ever Since Day One. We play Loud Free Improv. Sunday, March 29 Jacques (corner of Piedmont and Broadway, Boston) 21+, 9:30sharp w/ Andrew Neuman & Can't Come on Down! </Mason.Sigmoid_Flexure> Sigmoid Flexure 1687 Comm. Ave #31, Brighton, MA 02135 (617) 782-2943 prelapse@tiac.net Sigmoid Flexure plays loud free improv. They walk all over the lines that separate punk rock and free jazz, improvisation and composition, and nois= e and melody. They=92re not sure if there=92s a difference between form and function. Features members of Prelapse (Tzadik Rec.), Blinder, and Ever Since Day O= ne. Sigmoid Flexure is: Mason Wendell- fretless bass Megan Gass- vocals Emily Weber- tenor sax Chris Lavender- vibes Dane Johnson- fretless guitar Rohin Khemani- drums Mason Wendell prelapse@tiac.net Blinder- http://www.tiac.net/users/prelapse/blinder.html Sigmoid Flexure- Loud Free Improv Prelapse- the music of Naked City and new music for loud ensemble Freelance Web Design and Computer Music Copying - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: flamerik@best.ms.philips.com Subject: Re: A Fistful of Film Music Date: 23 Mar 1998 09:19:32 +0100 Doug McKay wrote: > The Ennio Morricone Anthology. > I like it too. It's a 2 CD set put out by Rhino in '95. I don't know if > there are other collections I might have liked even more, though. There are > a few selections I cringed at: specifically Joan Baez singing on two from > the film Sacco & Vanzetti, and Jackie Eaton singing on one from The Ballad > of Hank McCain. I could have done without any singing. It comes as an > interruption, for me. Although the best track on the album, IMO, is one that features singing, namely "Il Ritorno di Ringo". I've been looking out for Morricone compilations too, and this one is probably the best when it comes to compiling Morricone's western and more well-known stuff. Most compilations focus on his Sergio Leone stuff anyway. However, there are a few VERY good compilations out that focus on his work for (mostly) Italian B-movies: thrillers, erotica, giallos. These compilations are the result of the easy-tunes hype that swept the world about one and a half year ago. As long as they are as brilliant as they are, I don't really care why they are released, though. We should thank the easy hype, 'cause most of this would be totally unavailable otherwise. Titles: Mondo Morricone - compilation on the German Colloseum label. More Mondo Morricone - another compilation on Colloseum. This one features the whole of "Maddalena". A shortened version of this track is found on many compilations, but this is the only time I've ever seen the 9:05 complete version. Also has some really great thriller music. Morricone A Go! Go! - 2CD on the Japanese Kiss label. I picked it up in Tokyo, but it is available outside of Japan as well, at least in Europe. At a ridiculous price, of course... Nevertheless, this has got to be my favorite Morricone album, especially disc one. Opens with "Belinda May", which is such a nice track that nothing can go wrong after that. A few tracks here also appear on the Mondo albums, but who cares. Listen to "Tema From Eat It" and all of sudden Bungle's "Violenza Domestica" makes sense. There's also a Trovaioli A Go! Go! double album which, unfortunately, I haven't been able to find yet. If anyone knows any other compilations that I might have forgotten, I'd be glad to find out... Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: flamerik@best.ms.philips.com Subject: Musique Concrete Date: 23 Mar 1998 09:45:52 +0100 I totally agree with Caleb Deupree that it is virtually impossible to find musique concrete. When I asked at my local "classical music" record store for Parmegiani, they took out a catalogue as thick as a phone book, but the name Parmegiani wasn't in it, so they couldn't order it. Since this stuff is so hard to find, I wouldn't really know which recordings are essential - heck, I'm not even sure of some of the stuff I have whether it is musique concrete or electro-acoustic music or whatever. But, here's some of the stuff I happen to like. I'm especially partial to the Edition RZ stuff, but these records mostly don't have titles... Runzelstirn & Gurgelstock - HO (Schimpfluch 25) This has to be one of my all-time favorite albums, and probably the one that changed my perception of music the most, if not entirely. I've heard other stuff by Rudolf Eber/Runzelstirn, but this has to be the best. 69 tracks of cut-ups, fucked up, blocks of sounds, silence, screams, noise blasts, etc. It's incoherence makes it coherent again. Totally brilliant sound, amazing conceptual artwork. Unfortunately, the thing is out of print. Iancu Dumitrescu - Medium III/Cogito (Edition Modern ED.MN 1001) I think this could be called electro-acoustic music, but I'm not sure. Medium III is a piece for solo bass that will totally blow you away. The most profound and scorching double bass sounds ever put to record. This should be a reference CD for testing stereo systems. Originally released on vinyl on the Edition RZ label, but re-released on CD on Edition MN, with a couple of other cool pieces as well. "album of musique concrete on Edition RZ" This is an album of four or five Finnish musique concrete composers, released on vinyl only on the Berlin-based Edition RZ label. Beautiful sounds, taken from every-day life. "the Iani Christou album on Edition RZ" Much in the minimalist vein of Scelsi, exceptional stuff. MB (Maurizio Bianchi) I don't know if this qualifies at all. I have only one track of his, which is among the best stuff I've ever heard (yeah, I like to exaggerate, sue me) The piece is called "MB55" and features one instrument - some sort of analogue keyboard, but I don't know which. Long drawn out sounds, very beautiful. It's from the early 80s. Nurse With Wound - Merzbild Schwet Featuring the ominous "Futurismo", which sounds like it is designed to accompany a dark Blake's 7 episode. Compelling stuff, to say the least. Best NWW stuff I've heard, but I admit that I haven't heard all of it. I've noticed that some of the more adventurous techno borders on electro-acoustic music. I don't know if any of you are familiar with the releases on the Berlin-based Basic Channel and Chain Reaction labels, but this stuff is soooo close to electro-acoustic. I completed my Basic Channel collection this weekend, and am now the proud owner of all the 9 12"-es released on this label, each a classic in its own right. If you've ever heard the "Radiance" or 12", you know what I'm talking about. The latest edition of The Wire has a VERY good article on Chain Reaction, although I think Basic Channel has released better stuff (but it is defunct now). Since I'm such a sucker for this stuff, I'd like to know other people's favorite stuff. Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Cobra>>>Phlegm Date: 23 Mar 1998 20:21:05 +1100 > That'd probably be the performances of Cobra organised by Phlegm's Oren > Ambarchi and Rob Avenaim in Sydney for the first What Is Music? festival > (I'm guessing, of course). By that stage, I think they'd both played with > Zorn in NY in some Radical Jewish Culture events: in any case, they'd met > him, asked for permission to perform Cobra out here, and received > instructions on its performance from him. Wow, it's good to see a name that rings a bell. I actually jammed with that Rob guy at a free improvisation thing called "Left Of Centre". I never realised he was in Phlegm. Are they any good? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque <Dgasque@aol.com> Subject: Re: praxis Date: 23 Mar 1998 04:26:08 EST In a message dated 98-03-20 08:54:09 EST, you (cdeupree@interagp.com) wrote: << I'd have to cast my vote to the new Arcana, Arc of the Testimony, for Buckethead's finest hour. This album has really grown on me, and Buckethead makes a significant contribution to a very intense and exhilarating album. >> While the music and musicians here are truly outstanding, I can't understand for the life of me why this set is recorded so damn loud. Distortion levels are exceeded throughout, putting a damper on an otherwise excellent CD. Tony Williams last recording deserved to sound better than this... =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque <Dgasque@aol.com> Subject: Re: musique concrete Date: 23 Mar 1998 04:26:35 EST In a message dated 98-03-21 23:01:34 EST, you (cdeupree@interagp.com) wrote: << Maybe I'm a minority of one, and many of you have collections of musique concrete to parallel the complete Masadas. What would you consider essential musique concrete? What recent purchases are interesting (or not) and why? >> The music of Un Drame Musical Instantaine should fit your listening request. Unfortunately, the group has woefully poor distribution outside of Europe. The only way I was able to obtain their early LPs was through Ultima Thule in England. No doubt you've seen some of their later offerings in the Wayside catalog on the Adda label. These later works are much more electronic in form than the early stuff, which is more acoustic-based. I can see a lot of Masada fans digging these earlier works. Those interested may wish to try Mole Jazz in England. Their website URL is their name- http://www.molejazz.com/ =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Julien Quint <Julien.Quint@xrce.xerox.com> Subject: Re: juke/19 Date: 23 Mar 1998 10:33:43 +0100 From ScottRussell <ScottRussell@scottishmedia.com>: > here's a poser for all fans of Japanese mayhem. Yesterday I picked up > a 5 cd box by a band called Juke/19 on the Time Bomb label. It's a > retrospective of their work from the late 70's and early 80's. I know > nothing about them at all. They sound kind of like Musica Transonic if > they had been influenced by Ubu, Beefheart and UK punk rather than > Blue Cheer and Hendrix! There are copious notes but they are all in > Japanese. I have noticed the odd reference to the Boredoms and > Yamatsuka. Eye cites this band as one of his big influences and an inspiration for Hanatarash. He actually has a band / project together with the main guy behind Juke/19 (I think "19" is really the name of the band, they added "juke" so that people pronounce it correctly, japanese-style, not "nineteen" or "dix-neuf" or what have you), Shinro Ohtake, called Puzzle Punks. As far as I know they have two releases out: "24 hits by 24 puzzle punk bands" or something along these lines, featuring 24 tracks by 24 supposedly different bands (which are all of course the duo of Eye and Ohtake). It comes with a very beautiful and thick CD-sized booklet full of the pair's drawings and art, but is very expensive because it was put out in Japan by a modern art institution... I haven't heard it, unfortunately so I won't comment further, but I've read good reviews. Their other release I have though: "Budub", an album on the aforementioned Time Bomb label, relatively available for decent prices, comes in CD format and picture-disc LP, very beautiful too. Minimalistic electronics would be a quick and dirty way to describe this, very much in the vein of the more electronic Boredoms such as Super Roots 6 (well, the electronic tracks of course) and the "ambient" track on Chocolate Synthesizer ("Synthesizer Guidebook on Fire" ?) I'd recommend it to any Boredoms fan (and, I guess, to any 19 fan). * Julien - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: A Fistful of Film Music Date: 23 Mar 1998 21:18:44 +1100 Speaking of the man, has anyone heard "Dancing With Morricone"? It looks pretty interesting but I wonder whether it would be better to get soundtracks of separate movies? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Geert Buelens <buelens@uia.ua.ac.be> Subject: Re: Musique Concrete Date: 23 Mar 1998 11:49:00 +0100 (MET) On Mon, 23 Mar 1998 flamerik@best.ms.philips.com wrote: > I totally agree with Caleb Deupree that it is virtually impossible to find > musique concrete. When I asked at my local "classical music" record store for > Parmegiani, they took out a catalogue as thick as a phone book, but the name > Parmegiani wasn't in it, so they couldn't order it. Same happened to me with a Russian (?) composer RASKATOV (don't know if you would label that as Musique Concrete); saw a work of his performed two years ago; one of THE musical experiences... Any idea where to find this? geert - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Stefan Verstraeten <sverstraeten@alpha.ufsia.ac.be> Subject: john oswald plunderphonics Date: 23 Mar 1998 12:19:07 +0100 Dear Zornies, A few days ago, I read articles by Chris Cutler & David Toop on John Oswald Plunderstuff... Naturally, I started looking for copies of his work but found nothing. So, does anyone on this list can make me a copy of his work on minidisc or on CD (if it's on MP3, that won't be a problem as well). Naturally, I'll pay for the costs of copying and sending the stuff over to me... Thanxxx already for possible answers... -- Stefan Verstraeten U.F.S.I.A. - Universiteit Antwerpen Bureau B - 421 Prinsstraat 13 B - 2000 Antwerpen Belgium (Europe) TEL.: +32 3 220 41 47 FAX : +32 3 220 47 99 GSM : +32 477 35 37 09 sverstraeten@ufsia.ac.be http://www.ufsia.ac.be - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: flamerik@best.ms.philips.com Subject: Re: A Fistful of Film Music Date: 23 Mar 1998 13:16:01 +0100 > Speaking of the man, has anyone heard "Dancing With Morricone"? It looks > pretty interesting but I wonder whether it would be better to get > soundtracks of separate movies? It depends, but in general I prefer compilations. The reason is this. Many of Morricone's (as well as other people's) soundtracks consist of one or two themes, played in any number of variations. Reasons for this are that the soundtracks often needed to be cheap (given the kind of movies they were designed to support), and that they were to be delivered at a fast pace (people in Italy spoke of "this week's Morricone soundtrack" in the period '68-'72). While the themes are often very good, the variations can get boring. This holds true for a number of 'whole-movie' soundtracks I've heard: Una Lucertola Con La Pelle Di Donna (which even features the main theme twice, unaltered!), L'Antichristo, I Malamondo (to a lesser extent), etc. A compilation album gathers a number of strong themes without any variations, so you won't get tired easily listening to them. Only when listening to a compilation, it gets to you how good the man was at composing great themes with great melodies. This said, I would be reluctant to buy anything called "Dancing With Morricone", "Morricone Greatest Hits" or anything like that. When it comes to the well- known stuff, the Rhino anthology is probably the best out there. There's also a supposedly pretty good one on DRG, which I haven't heard, but probably it does not feature much different material from the Rhino one. Once you're past the Rhino thing, I would really recommend the Mondo Morricone and Morricone A Go! Go! stuff, that is just mind-boggling. As far as 'whole-movie' soundtracks go, the best I've heard is probably I Malamondo, which is re-released on CAM. Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: Steve Beresford Date: 23 Mar 1998 05:53:58 -0800 > >On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, ia zha nah er vesen wrote: > >> For that matter: what is Steve Beresford's music like, in general? I've >> never heard it. I had to laugh at the absurdity of the fact that when I first heard the Stone/Yoshihide collaboration (can't remember the name of it right now) I noticed samples of Steve Beresford's BATH OF SURPRISE in the mix. But, the way he splashes bath water is so distinct. I cracked up when I looked at the list of samples and saw it listed in the liner notes. That really impressed the neighbors. Keith - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glenn Lea <glenn_lea@avid.com> Subject: Re: Tzadik re-issue Date: 23 Mar 1998 09:10:27 -0500 zippy@myna.com wrote: > > The HatArt Cobra is > available at normal price. Currently it's on sale for $14 (2 CDs) from Cadence. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: Braxton House Date: 23 Mar 1998 10:56:06 -0500 Allow me to cautiously disagree here. I've picked up a couple of Braxton House releases, most recently the 'Four Compositions (Quartet) 1995'. Despite its surface friendliness (the minimalistic character of the steady pulse), I've actually found this to be some of the thorniest music AB's created of late. I think this is so partly because one is lulled by the pulse into expecting something along the relatively accessible lines of 23C. But then, the lines extend seemingly forever, the musicians break off at unexpected points to freely improvise and there's very little in the way of resolution. I find myself imagining a long vine with the odd tendril shooting off at random intervals. I've noticed a number of criticisms of his Ghost Trance work as boring, repetitive etc. I think it might be more a matter of AB playing with the expected (especially in jazz terms) notions of tension and release. This listener remains very curious to hear where this latest development takes him. While the Ghist Trance music isn't where I'd recommend a listener new to Braxton to dive in, those who have followed his career for a while should definitely check out at least some of it. Brian Olewnick ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: Jason Caulfield Bivins <jbivins@indiana.edu> at SMTP-for-MSSM Hi, I don't remember who asked about Braxton House, but I feel compelled to issue something of a warning. I had to review a pile of these for Cadence last month and I was sorely underwhelmed. As a huge AB fan, I think these are less than essential documents. True, they're continuous with portions of his earlier work and they contain some fine individual playing from Kevin Norton and Roland Dahinden; but I find them musically flat -- unwavering tempi, unsatisfying group interaction, little of compositional interest. Go for the Hat Huts, the Leos, the creative orchestra stuff first. Jason Bivins - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: musique concrete Date: 23 Mar 1998 11:28:03 -0500 First, an apology to hard core jazz Zornies about the length of my responses. If you can suggest a more appropriate forum to discuss this music, please let me know. Don't suggest the ambient list -- all they talk about over there any more is Fax. >>>>> "Jascha" == ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> writes: Jascha> Things brings up the question of whether to make a Jascha> distinction between prjects like the above, or "bands" Jascha> such as Zoviet France,the Hafler Trio, Nurse With Wound, Jascha> and the more 'accademic' electroacoustic composers such as Jascha> Stockhausen. Some albums by NWW (not all) are very much Jascha> in this vein, anything the Hafler Trio does certainly is, Jascha> and Zoviet France could be seen as being the Jascha> electroacoustic equivalent of punk rock, etc... In the Jascha> case of all of these "bands", there is a very clear Jascha> musical progression, as well as very distinctive styles. Jascha> (The albums are also easier to find, since they're Jascha> distrubuted more like rock albums than 'new music' albums, Jascha> which is another whole topic by itself...). As well, some Jascha> of what gets called 'ambient' these days has a very strong Jascha> influence from the musicque concrete tradition. Any Jascha> thoughts on this? Yeah, I have noticed that 'electroacoustic' is being used more and more as a buzzword in music reviews, where it used to be the English translation of 'musique concrete'. And I agree that the music is much easier to find, and I'm very fond of much of this music. (I even considered being a Hafler Trio completist before they started coming out with $70 for 10-inch vinyl.) and "Frankco" == <flamerik@best.ms.philips.com> writes: Frankco> I've noticed that some of the more adventurous techno Frankco> borders on electro-acoustic music. I don't know if any of Frankco> you are familiar with the releases on the Berlin-based Frankco> Basic Channel and Chain Reaction labels, but this stuff Frankco> is soooo close to electro-acoustic. I completed my Basic Frankco> Channel collection this weekend, and am now the proud Frankco> owner of all the 9 12"-es released on this label, each a Frankco> classic in its own right. If you've ever heard the Frankco> "Radiance" or 12", you know what I'm talking about. The Frankco> latest edition of The Wire has a VERY good article on Frankco> Chain Reaction, although I think Basic Channel has Frankco> released better stuff (but it is defunct now). This article was indeed one of the catalysts for my missive. I'd be very interested in knowing more about the electroacousticity (is that a word?) of this outfit, as the Wire article is a little vague, preferring to concentrate more on the Chain Reaction side. The only Chain Reaction I've heard is Porter Ricks, which falls to my ears more on the pop side because of their heavy use of drum machines (regardless of how much they garble it). Concerning the differences, if they exist, between 'pop' electroacoustic music like Hafler Trio, NWW, (perhaps Imbalance), etc., and 'classical' music like Empreintes Digitales, INA-GRM, etc. (this kind of music is also beastly difficult to describe): I feel like there is more going on in the classical pieces. The image of a movie for the ears seems more apt than it does for a Hafler Trio piece, which seems to create a strange and unearthly atmosphere, but doesn't have the flow and transitions of a movie (if a Hafler Trio piece were a movie, it would be like one of those extremely static Warhol-type movies). Perhaps another way to say this is that the individual semantic units in classical works are smaller and shorter than they are with pop ones? This is of course an extreme overgeneralization, so here's another. Brian Olenwick recently commented on the tension-release model in Anthony Braxton's music, and maybe this is another difference. I don't hear as much tension-release in Hafler Trio or Zoviet France as I do in Parmegiani or Normandeau or Xenakis (what could be more tension-release than Legendes of Eer). Geez, long winded enough? --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re[2]: Musique Concrete Date: 23 Mar 1998 14:42:02 UT Two of the best Music Concrete comps I've had the pleasure to hear and own are the 13 volume Wergo Computer Music Compilations (Available at Forced Exposure) and Culture Electroniques on Harmonia Mundi, which, as far as I can tell, are unavailable. Almost all the Wergo ones are fantastic, except, I think, 11. I've only heard CE2, 4 and 6, but they are all good. If anyone knows where these might be available, please let me know. Once, a long long time ago I went to Schoolkids Music in Ann Arbor and they had a fantastic selection of CDs along this vein. Unfortunately I was dirt poor. When I went back three years later, ambient music was the shit and had completely taken over the "electronic music" section and my precious experimental/electronic was nowhere to be seen. Alas. Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Date: 23 Mar 1998 10:25:04 -0700 to.ca with SMTP id <160086(6)>; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 10:05:46 -0500 X-Sender: pm.carey@mailbox57.utcc.utoronto.ca Message-Id: <v02110105b13c02a60983@[142.150.128.235]> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Status: RO Sender: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk flamerik@best.ms.philips.com wrote: >I totally agree with Caleb Deupree that it is virtually impossible >to find musique concrete. It definitely requires some searching, that's for sure ... Mail order seems to be the best way since you get the best prices and a much much wider selection than a big chain store like Tower, Virgin MS or HMV would ever have. >When I asked at my local "classical music" record store for >Parmegiani, they took out a catalogue as thick as a phone book, >but the name Parmegiani wasn't in it, so they couldn't order it. As Caleb mentioned, you should try Anomalous for Parmegiani as Eric just got 2 of his INA-GRM CDs and one 2CD in a couple weeks back. >Since this stuff is so hard to find, I wouldn't really know which >recordings are essential Who does? :) I'd appreciate some help in this department as well, as far as sorting through releases is concerned. Everyone has their own favorite pieces/composers of course, but I would definitely say that names like Pierre Schaeffer, Pierre Henry, Luc Ferrari, Michel Chion, Bernard Parmegiani, Francis Dhomont, Iancu Dumitrescu, Rune Lindblad, Luigi Nono, Karlheinz Stockhausen, Mauricio Kagel, and Iannis Xenakis are just a few whose electro-acoustic output should not be missed ... >heck, I'm not even sure of some of the stuff I have whether it is >musique concrete or electro-acoustic music or whatever. As I understand it, these terms are basically interchangeable. A dictionary definition of musique concrete will read something like "recorded montage of natural (acoustic) sounds often electronically modified" which is basically saying you've got both electronics and acoustic sounds/instruments in a composition. Hence the term electro-acoustic. Another synonymous term y= ou will often encounter in descriptions of music of this nature is "acousmat= ic". >But, here's some of the stuff I happen to like. I'm especially partial >to the Edition RZ stuff, but these records mostly don't have titles... Most all of the Edition RZ material that I've heard has been excellent. Of course, a lot of the original LPs are now on CD format as well. >Runzelstirn & Gurgelstock - HO (Schimpfluch 25) >This has to be one of my all-time favorite albums, and probably the one = that >changed my perception of music the most, if not entirely. I've heard oth= er >stuff by Rudolf Eber/Runzelstirn, but this has to be the best. 69 tracks= of >cut-ups, fucked up, blocks of sounds, silence, screams, noise blasts, et= c. >It's incoherence makes it coherent again. Totally brilliant sound, amazi= ng >conceptual artwork. Unfortunately, the thing is out of print. I totally agree. This record is amazing. >Iancu Dumitrescu - Medium III/Cogito (Edition Modern ED.MN 1001) >I think this could be called electro-acoustic music, but I'm not sure. >Medium III is a piece for solo bass that will totally blow you away. >The most profound and scorching double bass sounds ever put to record. >This should be a reference CD for testing stereo systems. Originally >released on vinyl on the Edition RZ label, but re-released on CD on >Edition MN, with a couple of other cool pieces as well. Dumitrescu is an extremely underappreciated genius when it comes to way-fucked-up compositions. Check out all his stuff (most of it on CD now), but especially "Pierres Sacrees" and "Galaxy", both on Edition Modern of course. >MB (Maurizio Bianchi) >I don't know if this qualifies at all. I have only one track of his, >which is among the best stuff I've ever heard (yeah, I like to exaggerat= e, >sue me) The piece is called "MB55" and features one instrument - some >sort of analogue keyboard, but I don't know which. Long drawn out sounds= , >very beautiful. It's from the early 80s. Don't know that I'd throw MB in with this group. Most of his material (that I've heard) is heavy on the "old school industrial" side of things, pretty much power electronics a la early Whitehouse et al. >Nurse With Wound - Merzbild Schwet >Featuring the ominous "Futurismo", which sounds like it is designed to >accompany a dark Blake's 7 episode. Compelling stuff, to say the least. >Best NWW stuff I've heard, but I admit that I haven't heard all of it. Stapleton has done some absolutely brilliant stuff in this vein, and I'm sure most people who've heard his work would agree. I'm guessing he was at least (somewhat) influenced by some of the musique concrete pioneers. >I've noticed that some of the more adventurous techno borders on >electro-acoustic music. I don't know if any of you are familiar with >the releases on the Berlin-based Basic Channel and Chain Reaction labels= , >but this stuff is soooo close to electro-acoustic. I completed my Basic >Channel collection this weekend, and am now the proud owner of all the 9 >12"-es released on this label, each a classic in its own right. If you'v= e >ever heard the "Radiance" or 12", you know what I'm talking about. The >latest edition of The Wire has a VERY good article on Chain Reaction, >although I think Basic Channel has released better stuff (but it is >defunct now). Not actually electro-acoustic by definition, of course, but bordering on it in sound in many ways for sure. All the Basic Channel, and most of th= e Chain Reaction releases are excellent IMO! I have yet to read the articl= e, but the March issue of the Wire is sitting in a pile on my desk ... >Since I'm such a sucker for this stuff, I'd like to know other >people's favorite stuff. Most anything by Pierre Henry ... faves being his "Des Ann=E9es 50" 3CD (Mantra) with most all of his early material from the 50's (as the title says), including work with Schaeffer. Also his "Apocalypse de Jean" 2CD (Mantra) and "Variations Pour Une Porte Et Un Soupir/Voile d'Orph=E9e" (Harmonia Mundi). Pierre Schaeffer ... he has two 4CD box sets (with books), which, if you can afford them are essential. I don't own them, but have heard much of the material by borrowing from a friend's collection. The best is "l'=A6= vre musicale" (INA-GRM) which contains much of his work from 1948 to 1988, including his pieces with Henry in the 50's. Luc Ferrari ... "Presque Rein" CD on INA-GRM and "Petite Symphonie" CD on BVHaast. Luigi Nono (often overlooked amazing Italian composer) is a favorite with "Guai Ai Gelidi Mostri", "Fragmente-Stille, An Diotima" and "La Lontanaza nostalgica ...", all CDs on Montaigne, the same label that Xenakis' class= ic 8-channel electronic tape piece, "La L=E9gende d'Eer" is on. His "A Carl= o Scarpa" LP is also great ... on Edition RZ. Xenakis ... "Kraanerg" is pure brilliance, as another list member already attested to. The version on Asphodel from 1996 is highly recommended. I don't have it, but his "Electro-Acoustic Music" LP (out of print, of course) is very highly sought after. Paul Dolden ... "L'ivresse de la Vitesse" 2CD on Empreintes Digitales. Michel Chion ... "Requiem" CD also on Empreintes Digitales. The work of a lot of artists on the Metamkine label out of France ... 3" CDs by Chion (same as above), Noetinger, Marchetti, Mion, Ascione and Jim O'Rourke (!). Fairly cheap, and also fun to collect!!! Get 'em all kids! :) Many of these artists also have full-length CDs on Empreintes Digitales/INA-GRM. I also enjoy much of the work in this genre (used very loosely) by more "recent" folks like Christoph Heemann, Bernard Gunter, Francisco Lopez, CM von Hausswolff, Ralf Wehowsky and others that should also be familiar to a lot of people here. -Patrick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Greg Mills <gregm@leftfield.net> Subject: Ives, Partch, Xenakis Date: 23 Mar 1998 10:11:57 -0800 I know I plumb this list for all its worth, recommendation wise, but what am I to do? I have socially retarded friends. Today's requested recos: Ives, Partch, Xenakis. Where should I start? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@UVic.CA> Subject: Electro-acoustic/Musique concrete Date: 23 Mar 1998 10:24:07 -0800 (PST) Have you guys heard Paul Dolden's work? He's already kind of a Legend in Canada (at least the West Coast), and people seem to either love him or hate him (though this might have more to do with his personality than his music). Generally, Dolden makes his own recordings with all acoustic instruments, than layers them to create new sounds etc. The instruments and ensembles are sometimes recognizable, while at times they are layered hundreds thick. Some samples are longer while sometimes hundreds may be present in one second of sound. The compositions are often very rhythmic, and he's not afraid to sound "jazz' or "rock" when appropriate (whatever that means). My favorites are the works for tape and one acoustic (though usually amplified) solo instrument. Several recordings are available in Canada, but I don't know which distributers carry them. "Beyond the Walls of Jerico" is a good starting point - one of his less subtle works(!). BTW, I'm still working on getting that Oswald info - should have it any day now... Cappy D'Angelo Student at Law - Intellectual Property Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion Victoria, B.C., CANADA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Bob Kowalski <BKowalski@genetics.com> Subject: MMW / "Tango Lesson" sndtrk Date: 23 Mar 1998 13:29:25 -0500 Would anyone venture a yeah / neah vote for any of the MMW albums. One over the others? In particular, the one w/ Ribot on guitar ("Its a jungle out there") ? Also, any recommendations (or boos from peanut gallery) for soundtrack to "The Tango Lesson"? I've yet to see the film but enjoyed "Orlando" very much (both film & sndtrk.) Happy Oscar Day Bob - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jkan@javanet.com Subject: Re: Musique Concrete Date: 23 Mar 1998 13:45:56 -0500 >Luigi Nono (often overlooked amazing Italian composer) is a favorite with >"Guai Ai Gelidi Mostri", "Fragmente-Stille, An Diotima" and "La Lontanaza >nostalgica ...", all CDs on Montaigne Hmm... my copy of "Fragmente-Stille, An Diotima" (on Disques Montaigne) is not particularly concrete -- it's a string quartet piece.... Is there another version? >Xenakis ... "Kraanerg" is pure brilliance, as another list member already >attested to. The version on Asphodel from 1996 is highly recommended. >I don't have it, but his "Electro-Acoustic Music" LP (out of print, of >course) is very highly sought after. As far as I can tell, EMF/INA-GRM recently re-released "Electro-Acoustic Music" -- with 2 additional pieces from 1970 and 1992 -- under the equally imaginative title "Electronic Music." Or at least that's my guess, since I was never able to find a copy of the original.... Jim //========================================================================= // Jim Kan (jkan@javanet.com) // // However far you may travel in this world, you will still occupy // the same volume of space. // Traditional Ur-Bororo saying //========================================================================= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: Ives, Partch, Xenakis Date: 23 Mar 1998 13:32:37 -0500 Greg, Ives--I'm not too familiar with specific recordings, but I always enjoyed the ones of Ives himself banging on the piano and, um, singing things like 'The Battle Cry of Freedom' Partch--Clearly, the CRI series is a great place to start. I'd say begin with Vol II, which includes the wonderful 'Petals...', possibly the easiest entry into Partch's music. Unless, of course. you can find a copy of 'Delusion of the Fury', a desert island selection of mine. Xenakis--Recent excellent CD issues include 'Electro-Acoustic Music' (mostly a reissue of the classic Nonesuch recording from around 1970) and 'La Legende d'Eer'. Happy listening, Brian Olewnick ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: Greg Mills <gregm@leftfield.net> at SMTP-for-MSSM I know I plumb this list for all its worth, recommendation wise, but what am I to do? I have socially retarded friends. Today's requested recos: Ives, Partch, Xenakis. Where should I start? - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rusty Crump <dmcrump@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu> Subject: Victoriaville '98 Date: 23 Mar 1998 13:07:36 -0600 Could somebody direct me to further information about this year's Victoriaville festival? Is there a web site where I can find info beyond the artist lineup, like costs, travel, lodging, etc? There is a .001% chance of my being able to go this year, but the logistics such a trip from the wilds of Mississippi are no small thing. Rusty Crump Oxford, Mississippi - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: Ives, Partch, Xenakis Date: 23 Mar 1998 11:04:03 -0800 Try Ives' SONATAS FOR VIOLIN AND PIANO...stunning. The original Nonesuch are the best...with Zukovsky on violin. Also, his solo piano stuff knocks my socks off and I am not a solo piano fan. Keith - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Ives, Partch, Xenakis Date: 23 Mar 1998 14:10:36 -0500 >>>>> "brian" == brian olewnick <brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu> writes: gregm> requested recos: Ives, Partch, Xenakis. gregm> should I start? brian> Partch--Clearly, the CRI series is a great place to brian> start. I'd say begin with Vol II, which includes the brian> wonderful 'Petals...', possibly the easiest entry into brian> Partch's music. Unless, of course. you can find a copy of brian> 'Delusion of the Fury', a desert island selection of mine. Volume 4 in the new set is a long theatrical piece, Bewitched, which is somewhat similar to Delusion (which is unquestionably the best Partch -- absolutely inexcusable for Columbia to have left this out of print). brian> Xenakis--Recent excellent CD issues include brian> 'Electro-Acoustic Music' (mostly a reissue of the classic brian> Nonesuch recording from around 1970) and 'La Legende brian> d'Eer'. I'd have to agree with these too. I picked up Iannissimo!, claiming to be volume 2 of a projected complete works, and was disappointed. These recordings of his orchestral and chamber works don't have the same power as some other (sadly available only on vinyl) recordings I've heard. I also remember a tape work Persepolis, which was designed to be broadcast throughout a massive outdoor space. Very powerful music. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: Partch, Xenakis Date: 23 Mar 1998 14:26:04 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 23 Mar 1998 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > Partch--Clearly, the CRI series is a great place to start. I'd say > begin with Vol II, which includes the wonderful 'Petals...', possibly > the easiest entry into Partch's music. Unless, of course. you can find > a copy of 'Delusion of the Fury', a desert island selection of mine. i picked up volume I of the four recent cri partch reissues on the recommendation of someone on this list, and i would say that it is also highly recommendable. kind of like an american gamelan often with partch's sometimes poignant, sometimes nonsensical vocals overtop. i love it. > Xenakis--Recent excellent CD issues include 'Electro-Acoustic Music' > (mostly a reissue of the classic Nonesuch recording from around 1970) > and 'La Legende d'Eer'. i believe the one on emf is simply titled _electronic music_. it is essential. hard to believe some of it dates back 40 years. _la legende d'er_ is not as accessible and is often downright discordant, but definitely worth pursuing if you like the emf disc. i also think the recording of "pleides" on harmonia mundi is really hot. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re: Electro-acoustic/Musique concrete Date: 23 Mar 1998 14:14:31 -0500 I caught a performance of a piece for tape and sextet of Dolden's at last year's Bang On A Can marathon. I recall enjoying the tape portion (as you said, very dense and rich), but thought the interaction between the tape and the live performers was negligible. I would much rather have simply listened to the tape (FWIW, this reaction was shared by several posters on rec.music.classical.contemporary at the time). Unfortunately, Mr. Dolden was interviewed on stage after the piece and came off as, to put it politely, a pompous ass. Unfair, I know, but it kinda soured me on pursuing his work. ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@UVic.CA> at SMTP-for-MSSM Have you guys heard Paul Dolden's work? He's already kind of a Legend in Canada (at least the West Coast), and people seem to either love him or hate him (though this might have more to do with his personality than his music). Generally, Dolden makes his own recordings with all acoustic instruments, than layers them to create new sounds etc. The instruments and ensembles are sometimes recognizable, while at times they are layered hundreds thick. Some samples are longer while sometimes hundreds may be present in one second of sound. The compositions are often very rhythmic, and he's not afraid to sound "jazz' or "rock" when appropriate (whatever that means). My favorites are the works for tape and one acoustic (though usually amplified) solo instrument. Several recordings are available in Canada, but I don't know which distributers carry them. "Beyond the Walls of Jerico" is a good starting point - one of his less subtle works(!). BTW, I'm still working on getting that Oswald info - should have it any day now... Cappy D'Angelo Student at Law - Intellectual Property Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion Victoria, B.C., CANADA - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glenn Lea <glenn_lea@avid.com> Subject: Re: Xenakis Date: 23 Mar 1998 14:27:55 -0500 bburton@CapAccess.org wrote: > > i believe the one on emf is simply titled _electronic music_. it is > essential. hard to believe some of it dates back 40 years. _la legende > d'er_ is not as accessible and is often downright discordant, but > definitely worth pursuing if you like the emf disc. i also think the > recording of "pleides" on harmonia mundi is really hot. I'd agree on all points and add the incredible 2-disc "Chamber Music" by the Arditti Quartet + piano on Auvidis Montaigne. Not your usual chamber music. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Re: MMW / "Tango Lesson" sndtrk Date: 23 Mar 1998 13:40:29 -0600 I like all of the MMW albums but I can rank them for you (IMO). 1. Shack Man 2. Friday Afternoon in the Universe 3. Notes From the Underground 4. It's a Jungle in Here Don't expect too much from the one w/Ribot. He isn't to prominent, not to mention that he isn't on all the tracks. Shack Man is the latest and my favorite. It's packed with little funk nuggets, as I heard it described - It's a true description. The tunes are great and it's less "jazzy" than Notes or Jungle. I like Notes because they're doing an acoustic trio thing. Medeski plays piano the whole disc and they play tunes like Caravan and Orbits which are great. About Ribot, get one of the live tapes with him guesting on a few tunes. I really enjoy the ones that I have heard. There's also a tape out there with Trey Anastasio of Phish playing with them. If you know Trey and the way he plays, this tape will surprise you. I think it's a pretty good one as well. I was intrigued by that Oren Bloedow Knitting Factory disc with MMW in the band but the realaudio sample didn't do much for me. I'm really waiting to hear the John Scofield album with MMW too. Hope this helps... Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Electro-acoustic/Musique concrete Date: 23 Mar 1998 14:42:42 -0500 >>>>> "Cappy" == Cappy D'Angelo <cappyd@UVic.CA> writes: Cappy> Have you guys heard Paul Dolden's work? He's already kind Cappy> of a Legend in Canada (at least the West Coast), and people Cappy> seem to either love him or hate him (though this might have Cappy> more to do with his personality than his music). I almost mentioned Dolden in my list of essential composers, but listening to one whole CD of his work (I have his CD Threshold of Deafening Silence) is exhausting. Thanks for the tip on his personality, I'll try to avoid interviews ;-). --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JRZ <zube@winternet.com> Subject: Re: MMW / "Tango Lesson" sndtrk Date: 23 Mar 1998 13:50:44 -0600 At 01:29 PM 3/23/98 -0500, Bob Kowalski wrote: >Would anyone venture a yeah / neah vote for any of the MMW albums. >One over the others? In particular, the one w/ Ribot on guitar ("Its a >jungle out there") ? My fave is "Friday Afternoon in the Universe". It's got a lot more of the B3/vintage keys/Jimmy Smith vibes than the early ones and stretches out a lot more than "Shack Man". "Shack Man" is more of a reference album for their live shows. It's got a lot of great Meters-esque grooves on it but doesn't lay out at all. I loved it for a month but hardly listen to it anymore. "Notes from the Underground" is great too, it's all acoustic tho and isn't very representitive of what they're doing now. Ribot only plays on 1 or 2 tracks on IAJIH. He tears shit up on "Worms" but if you're buying it to listen to him you'll be disappointed. zube http://www.winternet.com/~zube/index.htm If anyone objects to any statement I make. I am not only prepared to retract the statement, but to deny under oath that I ever made it - Tom Lehrer - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: musique concrete Date: 23 Mar 1998 14:55:12 -0500 (EST) > Concerning the differences, if they exist, between 'pop' > electroacoustic music like Hafler Trio, NWW, (perhaps Imbalance), > etc., and 'classical' music like Empreintes Digitales, INA-GRM, > etc. (this kind of music is also beastly difficult to describe): I > feel like there is more going on in the classical pieces. The image > of a movie for the ears seems more apt than it does for a Hafler Trio > piece, which seems to create a strange and unearthly atmosphere, but > doesn't have the flow and transitions of a movie (if a Hafler Trio > piece were a movie, it would be like one of those extremely static > Warhol-type movies). Perhaps another way to say this is that the > individual semantic units in classical works are smaller and shorter > than they are with pop ones? > > This is of course an extreme overgeneralization, so here's another. > Brian Olenwick recently commented on the tension-release model in > Anthony Braxton's music, and maybe this is another difference. I > don't hear as much tension-release in Hafler Trio or Zoviet France as > I do in Parmegiani or Normandeau or Xenakis (what could be more > tension-release than Legendes of Eer). Now that i think of it, the 'pop' electroacousticians do tend toward long, sprawling, somewhat static pieces... Interesting point. I'll have to sit down with my recently-aquired stack of old electroacoustic vinyl and think about this one for a while. Two immediate counter-examples which comes to mind (although i think the point you're making is probably true, for the most part) are the pieces 'masturbatorium' and 'fuck' by the Hafler Trio. They have complementary schemes, with the first one gradually building in volume/density/speed over 17minutes or so, and the second one doing, roughly, the reverse kind of thing in about twice the length. 'Masturbatorium' especially struck me with its well-crafted progression. -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: Electro-acoustic/Musique concrete Date: 23 Mar 1998 11:43:46 -0800 >I caught a performance of a piece for tape and sextet of Dolden's at > last year's Bang On A Can marathon There was avery positive review of a recent release by Band On A Can doing Eno's 'Music For Airports.' Anyone heard it? Keith - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rusty Crump <dmcrump@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu> Subject: Re: MMW/Scofield Date: 23 Mar 1998 14:03:32 -0600 >I like all of the MMW albums but I can rank them for you (IMO). > >1. Shack Man >2. Friday Afternoon in the Universe >3. Notes From the Underground >4. It's a Jungle in Here > >Don't expect too much from the one w/Ribot. He isn't to prominent, not to >mention that he isn't on all the tracks. Shack Man is the latest and my >favorite. It's packed with little funk nuggets, as I heard it described - >It's a true description. The tunes are great and it's less "jazzy" than >Notes or Jungle. I like Notes because they're doing an acoustic trio >thing. Medeski plays piano the whole disc and they play tunes like Caravan >and Orbits which are great. > ... > >I was intrigued by that Oren Bloedow Knitting Factory disc with MMW in the >band but the realaudio sample didn't do much for me. I'm really waiting to >hear the John Scofield album with MMW too. > >Hope this helps... > >Dan I got an advance copy of "A-Go-Go" with Scofield, and I must say, I'm underwhelmed. I don't have the writerly chops to give a good detailed review, but the few tracks I've listened to so far didn't put any sweat on my upper lip. MMW don't do anything to distinguish themselves -- they submerge their personalities strictly in service to Scofield, whose ideas seem worthy of a couple of tracks rather than a whole album. But who knows, I may listen to it again in a couple of days and love it. Some albums are like that (like SY's Daydream Nation, which I hated the first five times I listened to it, & loved from then on). Rusty Crump Oxford, Mississippi - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: electroacoustic music Date: 23 Mar 1998 15:02:06 -0500 (EST) Is there an electroacoustic music mailing-list? This thread is brilliant, and, if it continues, might warrant the creation of one... ...then again, it sort of spices up the already spicey Zorn list a fair bit. -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: Bang on a Can Date: 23 Mar 1998 15:10:37 -0500 (EST) > There was avery positive review of a recent release by Band On A Can doing > Eno's 'Music For Airports.' Anyone heard it? Wow! No, but i'd like to... Re: Bang on a Can - there are regular marathons, right? When/where's the next one? Also, i have the disc 'industry' put out by the BOAC folks...i've heard of many others. Any recomendations? -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re[2]: musique concrete Date: 23 Mar 1998 20:17:10 UT Actually, I was going to mention this also. The "classical" stuff seems to be more thought out and composed, which might allow for better use of dynamic changes and sound structures, where the "pop" stuff tends to be more on the "experimental" tip, where you can sit around and make funny noises for an hour, then press the results to CD. They tend to be more cloudy, more drony, whereas the "classical" stuff tends to have crisper sounds even. I dunno. I've heard a lot of "ambient", "experimental" and "noise" but nothing really comes close to a good Xenakis or Ligeti piece for excitement. Also, I'm not big on Stockhausen for many of the same reasons. Anyway, another artist I really enjoy: Nicolas Collins, who did, among other great things, the now sadly out of print _100 of the World's Most Beautiful Melodies_ with some of the artists who get mentioned on this list. His other stuff is equally as great. Also, if we're going to the far extreme of Music Concrete, I think Negativland's Theme from Big 10-8 Place is fantastic and one of the shining moments of the genre. But even though they are more "pop" like, I think the planning and execution, the recurring themes and the dynamic interplay of that peice are all fantastic. I also really enjoy Helter Stupid and some of the tracks from Escape from Noise for the same reasons. All excellently done. Much better than their later stuff. Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Lucas on Tzadik Date: 23 Mar 1998 15:26:56 -0500 Haven't seen a review of the new Lucas CD on Tzadik here yet. Anyone? Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: Bang on a Can Date: 23 Mar 1998 15:25:30 -0500 1) The marathon is generally in mid-May, I think. Haven't heard the line-up for this year yet. It makes for a generally enjoyable day, though I go in prepared to hear a fair amount of dross, some decent work and a small amount of extraordinary music (seems reasonable for 10 hours!). The major snafu last year was the non-performance of Bryars' "Jesus' Blood..." due to schedule overruns. This might not have been so bad had not said overruns been caused by some overlong works by the evenings composers-in-residence, in particular an hour- long piece by Michael Gordon (performed when it was clear the evening was going long) which A) on its own merits, could have been shortened by 45 minutes and B) knowing that most of the audience remaining was there to hear the Bryars work--well, a little class might have been called for. Sorry to vent, but that still pisses me off. Don't let that put you off, though--it's worth attending. 2) I was all set to dislike BOAC's version of 'Music for Airports' (an old fave) but I must say, it won me over. I _would_ say that it's almost necessary to put the original (and its implied philosophy of listening) out of mind and approach it on its own. Ie, it's no longer background music, but it's still a joy to bathe in. Brian Olewnick ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> at SMTP-for-MSSM > There was avery positive review of a recent release by Band On A Can doing > Eno's 'Music For Airports.' Anyone heard it? Wow! No, but i'd like to... Re: Bang on a Can - there are regular marathons, right? When/where's the next one? Also, i have the disc 'industry' put out by the BOAC folks...i've heard of many others. Any recomendations? -jascha - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@UVic.CA> Subject: re: mmw Date: 23 Mar 1998 12:45:28 -0800 (PST) I've never been impressed by their recordings, but was VERY impressed by their live set at Bumbershoot (Seattle) last year. Rumour was that the only reason they were asked to play was that Beck requested that they open for him - I thought they were the best performance of the whole festival (though I missed the Wayne Horvitz/Art Ensemble of Chicago show). Any good quality live MMW recordings out there? Cappy D'Angelo Student at Law - Intellectual Property Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion Victoria, B.C., CANADA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com> Subject: Jean Derome Date: 23 Mar 1998 15:49:52 -0500 I'm sorry I missed out on this thread before- thought something was wrong with my postings here (thanks for the help Mike). I'd like to heap a little a more praise on Mr. Derome- he's a brilliant writer and musician. Anyone interested in him should check out a book by Raymond Jones called 'Plunderphonics, Pataphysicians and Pop Mechanics' . There's a chapter about Derome, talking about his work in Les Granules and his solo work. Also, I think was mentioned before but just in case... there's a festival that he's a part of (and probably helped organize) that will also feature Zorn, Ikue Mori, Mike Patton and others in Canada in May in Victoriaville (Festival Musique Actuelle): http://www.login.net/cdcbf/FIMAV/ If anyone from the New York area is thinking of going to this, let me know as I'd like to see this myself. Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Re: MMW/Scofield Date: 23 Mar 1998 14:50:40 -0600 This is what I am afraid of. I guess guys like Scofield can't help but cheese out a little. Maybe I'll go by one of the nice CD stores that lets one listen to CDs before purchase and have a listen. Dan >I got an advance copy of "A-Go-Go" with Scofield, and I must say, I'm >underwhelmed. I don't have the writerly chops to give a good detailed >review, but the few tracks I've listened to so far didn't put any sweat on >my upper lip. MMW don't do anything to distinguish themselves -- they >submerge their personalities strictly in service to Scofield, whose ideas >seem worthy of a couple of tracks rather than a whole album. > >But who knows, I may listen to it again in a couple of days and love it. >Some albums are like that (like SY's Daydream Nation, which I hated the >first five times I listened to it, & loved from then on). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Gretz <KGGF@grove.iup.edu> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #270 Date: 23 Mar 1998 16:03:43 -0500 (EST) as far as Ives goes. if you can find a disc with The Fourth Of July on it BUY IT. wonderful piece. I have a cd that i like a lot. It's on Deustch Grammophone and it's called Symphony No. 2 the symphony itself is rather "normal" except for the last chord which is one of the greatest orchestral endings ever written in my opinion. it also features some shorter works, "the gong on the back of the hook and ladder", "the unanswered question" etc. all in all, a solid intro into the world of Charles Ives. jeff - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: xenakis, e#, ives, mmw(/scofield) Date: 23 Mar 1998 15:43:28 -0500 Glenn Lea wrote: > > I'd agree on all points and add the incredible 2-disc "Chamber Music" by the Arditti > Quartet + piano on Auvidis Montaigne. Not your usual chamber music. I will second this one. That first string quartet and the solo cello pieces are particularly amazing but I don't particularly like Xenakis's works for piano. The thing I love about Xenakis is how dynamic and powerful his music is. Not many other composers are as "in your face" as Xenakis. I still would recommend 'Kraanerg' (Sombient/Asphodel) as the disc to get for the guy looking for recs. For those of you who dig Xenakis, I would recommend Elliott Sharp's hand-packaged zOaR disc 'Spring & Neap' which is a very dynamic and dissonant orchestral piece that sounds quite Xenakis-like. E#'s new Orchestra Carbon disc 'Rheo-Umbra' just came out and it is phenomenal as well. It's another hand-packaged limited edition zOaR disc with similar instrumentation as 'Abstract Repressionism' but with the addition of two bass clarinetists. For Ives, I would recommend his Symphony #3 "Three Places In New England". I would call it is THE essential Ives and I'm very surprised to have not seen anyone mention it yet. I'd say 'Friday Afternoon In The Universe' is the best MMW disc by far for its short noisy tracks and lack of guests. It's certainly the most edgy and aggressive MMW album. Get this one first. I also have an advance copy of the Scofield/MMW collaboration and it is a very fun and groovy little album. No real edge and no real outside playing (which is probably the source of complaints from this list) but it is overall a very decent disc. I would have a hard time calling any disc "bad" where Medeski solos at least once. He's just a BEAST! -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rusty Crump <dmcrump@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu> Subject: re: mmw Date: 23 Mar 1998 15:32:59 -0600 >I've never been impressed by their recordings, but was VERY impressed by >their live set at Bumbershoot (Seattle) last year. Rumour was that the >only reason they were asked to play was that Beck requested that they open >for him - I thought they were the best performance of the whole festival >(though I missed the Wayne Horvitz/Art Ensemble of Chicago show). Any >good quality live MMW recordings out there? > >Cappy D'Angelo MMW played Oxford three times in a 2-year span and I saw a DAT-taper at each show. I gather there's quite a tape network for their shows, though I'm not in with that crowd. You'd probably have good luck getting shows if you contact the nearest Spreadhead (Widespread Panic fan), as MMW seems to be a favorite among them. You're absolutely right, their live shows peel the paint off the walls -- much more better than the studio stuff. Rusty Crump Oxford, Mississippi - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: Dumitrescu Date: 23 Mar 1998 16:08:34 -0500 > >Iancu Dumitrescu - Medium III/Cogito (Edition Modern ED.MN 1001) > >I think this could be called electro-acoustic music, but I'm not sure. > >Medium III is a piece for solo bass that will totally blow you away. > >The most profound and scorching double bass sounds ever put to record. > >This should be a reference CD for testing stereo systems. Originally > >released on vinyl on the Edition RZ label, but re-released on CD on > >Edition MN, with a couple of other cool pieces as well. > > Dumitrescu is an extremely underappreciated genius when it comes to > way-fucked-up compositions. Check out all his stuff (most of it on > CD now), but especially "Pierres Sacrees" and "Galaxy", both on Edition > Modern of course. I highly recommend Dumitrescu as well. The only place I've been able to get his great Edition Modern discs is through Forced Exposure. MEDIUM III is mind-blowing! Also, check out Horatiu Radalescu. Most of the stuff that has been talked about recently is available through mail-order from Forced Exposure at http://www.forcedexposure.com. I am a very satisfied customer. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: mmw Date: 23 Mar 1998 16:18:16 -0500 Rusty Crump wrote: > > >I've never been impressed by their recordings, but was VERY impressed by > >their live set at Bumbershoot (Seattle) last year. Rumour was that the > >only reason they were asked to play was that Beck requested that they open > >for him - I thought they were the best performance of the whole festival > >(though I missed the Wayne Horvitz/Art Ensemble of Chicago show). Any > >good quality live MMW recordings out there? > > > >Cappy D'Angelo > > MMW played Oxford three times in a 2-year span and I saw a DAT-taper at > each show. I gather there's quite a tape network for their shows, though > I'm not in with that crowd. You'd probably have good luck getting shows if > you contact the nearest Spreadhead (Widespread Panic fan), as MMW seems to > be a favorite among them. > > You're absolutely right, their live shows peel the paint off the walls -- > much more better than the studio stuff. If you're looking for live MMW tapes, go to http://www.tapetrading.com and look under MMW for a big huge list of people trading tapes of theirs. Most of these guys are the Phish/Grateful Dead/jam band type but I'm sure someone will do a blanks and postage deal for you. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Re: mmw Date: 23 Mar 1998 15:58:31 -0600 >If you're looking for live MMW tapes, go to http://www.tapetrading.com >and look under MMW for a big huge list of people trading tapes of >theirs. Most of these guys are the Phish/Grateful Dead/jam band type but >I'm sure someone will do a blanks and postage deal for you. I am/was one of those types... I have a handful of MMW tapes and I would be interested in trading for more zorn-list type material. (Frisell, Horvitz, Masada, etc.) Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: heesen@philo.uva.nl (Berrie Heesen) Subject: Zorn Filmworks Date: 23 Mar 1998 23:24:36 +0100 (MET) =46olks Last weekend I have seen three movies that wre brought together here in Mokum because Zorn made music for these movies. It was filmfestival called john Zorn filmworks. The organizers had bad luck because a couple of movies did not it, because the courier made a mistake (Fedex, keep inmind!!). But two out of three were impressing, especially because of the way music is interferring with the films. elegant spanking. I knew the music already, from one of the Filmwork collections (do not have the CD at hand here) that opens with Pueblo, I think is a most fascinating piece. anyway, not knowing what the movie was about, I happen not to read the info of the CD's, I learned that it was a session of two women in a SM action. Brilliant. for the first time I really enjoyed both SM and lesbos on the screen. I would like to know when and where more of Zorns films (can one say that) are shown, and I guess i am willing to travel. So if anyone knows, please let this list know too. =46urther, reading about Steve Beresford, I have a LP, Deadly Weapons that I never put on the turn table, so if anyone is interested please let me know. Last question, what is the last CD Arto lindsay put on the market? Ciao Berrie esen manager Journal 100 Department of Humanities, philosophy section Nieuwe Doelenstraat 15 1012 CP Amsterdam The Netherlands T: +31 20 525 4526 or 20 6165369 http://www.xs4all.nl/~krant100/index.html Homepage Journal 100: European children think together Homepage Europese kinderfilosofiekrant 100 & kinderfilosofie I think the best Portuguese idea is the 'world'. The world is Portuguese, because we know the world in Portuguese. Andr=E9 Costa, 8 years old. In Journal 100 number 4 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Company '91 Date: 23 Mar 1998 17:57:44 -0500 (EST) On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, [iso-8859-1] R=E9mi Bissonnette wrote: > As for Buckethead, I was wondering if anybody could describe his > performance on the three volumes of "Company '91" (featuring Derek Bailey= , > Zorn and crew)? Or more simply, short reviews of these CDs would be > interesting, since I just don't know which one to buy first (and since > they're on Incus, they won't come cheap here in Canada...) Buckethead fits in interestingly without departing much from his usual style. It's most interesting (to me) to hear how the more standardly avant-garde types react to playing with a "metal guy" than vice versa. Here's the problem: The earlier discs in the series are somewhat tighter generally, but Buckethead is featured more prominently on the later ones (which are not bad). So if you're going for the general Company vibe, I'd start with vol. 1; if you're going for the Buckethead-in-an-interesting- context thing, I'd start with vol. 3. Chris Hamilton=20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Steve Beresford Date: 23 Mar 1998 18:06:36 -0500 (EST) On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, ia zha nah er vesen wrote: > > I just noticed that an album by this guy, 'Signals for Tea', has Masada as > a backing band. What's it like? Slightly twisted lounge music. The playing's nice but the focus is mostly on the melodies and (sometimes darkly) amusing lyrics. If you like the lyric "It's like living with ants in your anus/Like refusing to swallow your phlegm/Tonight we'll let nothing restrain us/Let's feel free to do unto them" (from "Let's Get Cynical"), you'll likely find this charming. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Masada Date: 23 Mar 1998 18:08:40 -0500 (EST) On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, ia zha nah er vesen wrote: > > Does Circle Maker include the band's version of 'kol nidre'(sp)? No, unless your spelling's really off. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dora Agiotis <stubb@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: Victoriaville '98 Date: 23 Mar 1998 18:14:47 -0500 > > > Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:07:36 -0600 > From: Rusty Crump <dmcrump@sunset.backbone.olemiss.edu> > Subject: Victoriaville '98 > > Could somebody direct me to further information about this year's > Victoriaville festival? Is there a web site where I can find info beyond > the artist lineup, like costs, travel, lodging, etc? There is a .001% > chance of my being able to go this year, but the logistics such a trip from > the wilds of Mississippi are no small thing. > > Rusty Crump > Oxford, Mississippi > > Rusty Crump, and others interested, The web site for the Victoriaville Festival is: http://www.login.net.cdcbf/fimav Airline services and lodging For information and reservation call : Air Canada 1-800-361-7585 Voyages Escapades 1-819-758-3151 FIMAV's file number : Tour Box code CV984051 Motel Colibri 1-800-563-0533 ou 1-819-758-0533 The passport for all band is $290 Canadian For more information, you can call Production Platefrome inc. Tel: (819) 752-7912 Fax:(819) 758-4370 e-mail: fimav@cdcbf.qc.ca The single day (or show) tickets have not gone on sale yet. They should be soon though. Just check the web page every so often. I hope this information helps you. Dora (stubb) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re: john oswald plunderphonics Date: 23 Mar 1998 18:20:36 -0500 Stefan Verstraeten wrote: > > Dear Zornies, > > A few days ago, I read articles by Chris Cutler & David Toop on John > Oswald Plunderstuff... > Naturally, I started looking for copies of his work but found nothing. > So, does anyone on this list can make me a copy of his work on minidisc > or on CD (if it's on MP3, that won't be a problem as well). Naturally, > I'll pay for the costs of copying and sending the stuff over to me... > Thanxxx already for possible answers... I think Tom Pratt posted this about a week ago, but it bears repeating. Go to http://www.interlog.com/~vacuvox/xnotes.html#plunderphonic and the entire banned plunderphonics CD is there for the plundering, so to speak. Rich - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John McMahon <jmcmahon@wwdc.com> Subject: Electroacoustic Mailing-List Date: 23 Mar 1998 18:40:12 +0000 Quote: Is there an electroacoustic music mailing-list? This thread is brilliant, and, if it continues, might warrant the creation of one... ...then again, it sort of spices up the already spicey Zorn list a fair bit. - -jascha There IS a list for the Canadian Electroacoustic Community, called CECDISCUSS. Many/most of the list members are composer/musicians (some of them mentioned in the recent thread here), so the discussion is occasionally over the heads of non-musicians like myself, but it is fascinating reading nonetheless, with lots of news of current goings-on in EA. The CEC has a web-page at http://www-fofa.concordia.ca/cec/home.html. which contains the subscription information. Cheers, John McMahon Belmont, Ontario Currently listening to "Sunrise, Sunset" The Bob Thiele Collective. (David Murray, John Hicks, Cecil McBee, Andrew Cyrille.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: john shiurba <shiurba@sfo.com> Subject: Re: xenakis, e#, ives, mmw(/scofield) Date: 23 Mar 1998 15:49:46 -0700 > For Ives, I would recommend his Symphony #3 "Three Places In New > England". I would call it is THE essential Ives and I'm very surprised > to have not seen anyone mention it yet. actually these are two different works. symphony no. 3 is subtitled "camp meeting" and is not the same piece as 'three places in new england' both are excellent, but (imo) Ives great masterpiece is the fourth symphony. the orchestra is divided up, and in parts is playing two distinct things at different tempi, an idea that would still be considered avant garde when Stockhausen did it 40 years later. besides all of that it's really gorgeous stuff. -- shiurba@sfo.com http://www.sfo.com/~shiurba - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Luca Betti <lbetti@dinonet.it> Subject: THE NEW REAL BOOK CD-ROM , TABLATURE AND MIDI FILES Date: 24 Mar 1998 00:54:35 +0100 THE NEW REAL BOOK CD-ROM JAZZ CLASSICS CHOICE STANDARDS POP-FUSION CLASSICS TABLATURE AND MIDI FILES INCLUDED e-mail:lbetti@dinonet.it - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: xenakis, e#, ives, mmw(/scofield) Date: 23 Mar 1998 18:28:19 -0500 john shiurba wrote: > > > For Ives, I would recommend his Symphony #3 "Three Places In New > > England". I would call it is THE essential Ives and I'm very surprised > > to have not seen anyone mention it yet. > > actually these are two different works. symphony no. 3 is subtitled "camp > meeting" and is not the same piece as 'three places in new england' Upon review... you're right! The record I have is has "Three Places In New England" an the A side and Symphony No. 3 on the B side. For all this time I had been thinking it was one piece!!! Anyway, I think "Three Places In New England" is the better piece. I dig the Fourth Symphony as well. I feel dumb. > both are excellent, but (imo) Ives great masterpiece is the fourth > symphony. the orchestra is divided up, and in parts is playing two distinct > things at different tempi, an idea that would still be considered avant garde > when Stockhausen did it 40 years later. besides all of that it's really > gorgeous stuff. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chasinthetrane@juno.com (Jamie F Graves) Subject: MMW Recs Date: 23 Mar 1998 19:09:51 -0500 I'd have to say my two favorite MMW albums are Notes from the Underground and Friday Afternoon in the Universe. I think Shack Man is very appealing on first listen, but when you go back you realize there isn't much to it. I don't what's wrong with Its a Jungle in Here, it just seems to lack some creative spark. Kind of an indication of where they were going, but not quite there yet. The Ribot presence is also minimal. He sounds more like Joe Generic jazz guitar on this album. He plays on just one tune, and plays a pretty bland solo. But I don't think you can go wrong with either Notes or Friday. Notes is all acoustic, not really what they're doing now, but the solos on this album seriously kick, and the few horn tracks really get me. Friday is mesmerizing. The perfect blend of avant garde and funk, its closest they've come to art. Basically its 30 second avant chunks blended with extended groove jams. I highly recomend this one. They also have a fifth album, Farmers Reserve, which is only available at shows. Its pretty out, I'd say get it if you REALLY like the little experimental parts on Friday. Its a whole album of that. Speaking of MMW, has anyone heard anything about their Blue Note album? I'm interested to see what influence (if any) the label will have on their sound. Jamie _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Zorn Filmworks Date: 23 Mar 1998 16:26:20 -0800 On Mon, 23 Mar 1998 23:24:36 +0100 (MET) Berrie Heesen wrote: > > Last question, what is the last CD Arto lindsay put on the market? ON CHILL: Arto Lindsay 124 - NOON CHILL: Arto Lindsay 1997 - Gut (Japan), FLCG-3031 (CD) Soon to be released domstically on Bar/None (April 28). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FUNKADELlC <FUNKADELlC@aol.com> Subject: Re: MMW Date: 23 Mar 1998 20:13:51 EST In a message dated 98-03-23 18:18:02 EST, you write: << Any good quality live MMW recordings out there? >> HEY EVERYONE!!!!! CHECK OUT THE ALBUM "LUNAR CRUSH" by John Medeski and Dave Fruzinski..... this shit is way way out funky jazz... its out there... good good stuff.. cant stop listening to it. -cory sklar - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: Re: Dumitrescu Date: 23 Mar 1998 20:46:22 -0500 > >I think this could be called electro-acoustic music, but I'm not sure. > >Medium III is a piece for solo bass that will totally blow you away. > >The most profound and scorching double bass sounds ever put to record. > >This should be a reference CD for testing stereo systems. Originally > >released on vinyl on the Edition RZ label, but re-released on CD on > >Edition MN, with a couple of other cool pieces as well. > > Dumitrescu is an extremely underappreciated genius when it comes to > way-fucked-up compositions. Check out all his stuff (most of it on > CD now), but especially "Pierres Sacrees" and "Galaxy", both on Edition > Modern of course. Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> added: >I highly recommend Dumitrescu as well. The only place I've been able to >get his great Edition Modern discs is through Forced Exposure. MEDIUM >III is mind-blowing! Also, check out Horatiu Radalescu. >Most of the stuff that has been talked about recently is available >through mail-order from Forced Exposure at >http://www.forcedexposure.com. I am a very satisfied customer. You might also want to check out Anomalous Records as Eric's stock of this type of music easily rivals (if not surpasses) Forced Exposure's, and oftentimes his prices are even better. No, I don't work there ... just passing on the info. Check out his stuff at: http://www.zipcon.net/~anomaly/ -Patrick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Charles Gillett" <gill0042@tc.umn.edu> Subject: Arto Lindsay and more Date: 23 Mar 1998 19:48:57 +0000 On Mon, 23 Mar 1998 23:24:36 +0100 (MET) Berrie Heesen wrote: > > Last question, what is the last CD Arto lindsay put on the market? I just saw a Lindsay CD on the New Releases rack today, but I can't remember what it was called. The cover is dark and has a picture of Arto underwater, possibly snorkeling...it's a two word title, I want to say "Nice Cool" but I feel like it was something that made more sense than that. If Bar None ever updates their site, you could go there (www.bar-none.com) and find out about it. As it is they only have stuff about _Mundo Civilizado_, his second-most recent CD--and a darn good one at that. _The Circle Maker_ hasn't appeared in MN yet, even in the stores that are usually right on top of that sort of thing. I've seen the new Gary Lucas and Bun Ching-Lam, but no Circle Maker. Can anyone recommend (or not recommend) Keiji Haino's duet CDs with Derek Bailey, Peter Br=F6tzmann, or Loren MazzaCane Connors? I've never heard Haino. There was a discussion about the best Fushitsusha CDs here a while back, but for some reason I'm leaning toward the duet CDs. -- Charles - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: Re: Musique Concrete Date: 23 Mar 1998 20:45:56 -0500 jkan@javanet.com wrote: >Hmm... my copy of "Fragmente-Stille, An Diotima" (on Disques Montaigne) is >not particularly concrete -- it's a string quartet piece.... Is there >another version? I don't have the disc in front of me at the moment, but I thought this had David Albermann on electronics/tapes/sound projection or some such aspect. I could very well be wrong, or perhaps I'm thinking of one of his Wergo discs which has an electronic composition for orchestra and some tape pieces on it. >As far as I can tell, EMF/INA-GRM recently re-released "Electro-Acoustic >Music" -- with 2 additional pieces from 1970 and 1992 -- under the equally >imaginative title "Electronic Music." Or at least that's my guess, since I >was never able to find a copy of the original.... Hmmm ... I have "Electronic Music", but as I've never seen his "Electro-Acoustic Music" LP, I never thought it was a reissue of that title. It would make sense, I guess, but as far as I can see it doesn't say _anywhere_ in the CD liner notes that it is specifically a reissue of that record. I always thought it was just a collection of his best _electronic_ works (finally available) on disc. Maybe someone can clear this up if they have the original LP. -Patrick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: Musique Concrete Date: 23 Mar 1998 20:50:29 -0500 Patrick Carey wrote: > > jkan@javanet.com wrote: > > >Hmm... my copy of "Fragmente-Stille, An Diotima" (on Disques Montaigne) is > >not particularly concrete -- it's a string quartet piece.... Is there > >another version? > > I don't have the disc in front of me at the moment, but I thought this > had David Albermann on electronics/tapes/sound projection or some such > aspect. I could very well be wrong, or perhaps I'm thinking of one of > his Wergo discs which has an electronic composition for orchestra and > some tape pieces on it. Fragmente-Stille, An Diotima is a string quartet piece if I remember that Montaigne disc correctly (it's not in front of me). > >As far as I can tell, EMF/INA-GRM recently re-released "Electro-Acoustic > >Music" -- with 2 additional pieces from 1970 and 1992 -- under the equally > >imaginative title "Electronic Music." Or at least that's my guess, since I > >was never able to find a copy of the original.... > > Hmmm ... I have "Electronic Music", but as I've never seen his > "Electro-Acoustic Music" LP, I never thought it was a reissue > of that title. It would make sense, I guess, but as far as I > can see it doesn't say _anywhere_ in the CD liner notes that > it is specifically a reissue of that record. I always thought > it was just a collection of his best _electronic_ works (finally > available) on disc. Maybe someone can clear this up if they > have the original LP. The recent 'Electronic Music' disc on EMF contains a few pieces from the original Nonesuch LP 'Electro-Acoustic Music' plus some others. So it is not a direct re-issue of the LP. Has anyone checked out Xenakis's disc of Choral Music on the British label Hyperion??? Looks interesting... -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Mason Wendell &/or Megan Gass <prelapse@tiac.net> Subject: Re: Sigmoid Flexure 3/29 Date: 23 Mar 1998 21:21:34 -0500 Heeey List! When I got this from Patrice, I realized that I might not have been as clear as I could have been. To clarify: At 08:22 AM 3/23/98 -0800, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > Hi Mason, > >On Mon, 23 Mar 1998 01:33:37 -0500 Mason Wendell &/or Megan Gass wrote: >> >> Howdy folks! >> >> Sigmoid Flexure will be playing this Sunday (3/29) at Jacques. The band >> features members of Prelapse (Tzadik rec.), Blinder, and Ever Since Day > ^^^^^^^^^^ >What do you mean by that? > > Patrice. Hi Patrice. I know it's been a while since I first mentioned to the list that my group Prelapse would be recording Naked City premiers for Zorn, but it's finally happened. Our tracks are already in the can for a CD featuring us doing the NC stuff along with other artists TBA. Zorn's actually playing with us on this one. Zorn's also fronted for a CD of our originals. Those will be out as soon as they're mastered. Maybe Tzadik, maybe Avant. Details get worked out as we go. It's been a long process for us, with many starts and stops, but the end is in sight. I'm really excited for the discs to come out! </Mason.Prelapse> Mason Wendell prelapse@tiac.net Blinder- http://www.tiac.net/users/prelapse/blinder.html Sigmoid Flexure- Loud Free Improv Prelapse- the music of Naked City and new music for loud ensemble Freelance Web Design and Computer Music Copying - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen drury <stevedrury@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #270 Date: 23 Mar 1998 22:45:38 -0500 At 01:01 PM 3/23/98 -0700, you wrote: >I know I plumb this list for all its worth, recommendation wise, but >what am I to do? I have socially retarded friends. >Today's requested recos: Ives, Partch, Xenakis. >Where should I start? > Ives: "Holidays" Symphony (either Bernstein's or Michael Tilson Thomas's recordings), Symphony #4 (Tilson Thomas). The 2nd String Quartet as recorded by the Emerson Quartet. William Masselos's out-of-print recording of the 1st piano sonata. Tilson Thomas' version of "Three Places in New England". Unfortunately, (shameless plug to follow) I remain unsatisfied with any of the available recordings of Ives' greatest work for solo piano, the "Concord" sonata. So until Sony--or Tzadik--sees fit to record my interpretation, I'll have to settle with begging you to wait for Avant's release of my version of Ives' "Celestial Railroad". BTW, Partch's masterpiece "Delusion of the Fury" is available as a videotape in the "Enclosure" series. Also, if you dig Ives, you might find Cage's "Apartment House 1776" a treat (another shameless plug). --steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fran Bacon" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: john zorn/jean derome Date: 23 Mar 1998 20:29:20 PST i don't know if any of you are familiar with Jean Derome, but here >in Quebec he's sort of at the forefront of the avant-guard music scene What recordings are currently available by J. Derome, and where can one find them (i.e. what are the labels)? Thanks, KSH ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jeff Gretz <KGGF@grove.iup.edu> Subject: Bang on a can Date: 24 Mar 1998 00:11:39 -0500 (EST) if you're looking for other bang on a can stuff. check out the Steve Reich box set. they're all over that. jeff - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be> Subject: Re: Zorn Filmworks Date: 24 Mar 1998 09:56:48 +0100 > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > 124 - NOON CHILL: Arto Lindsay > > 1997 - Gut (Japan), FLCG-3031 (CD) > >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Soon to be released domstically on Bar/None (April 28). > Patrice. > My copy has a bonus-CD with a song not on the album and 4 remixes. YVes - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar Subject: MMW/LUNAR CRUSH Date: 24 Mar 1998 09:09:58 -0300 In my opinion "Friday Afternoon in the Universe" is a great CD; DON'T MISS "Lunar Crush" [Gramavision] by David Fiuczynski ("sick" guitar player) & John Medeski, a very powerful album though I don't like vocals included in some songs. Hugo, from Argentina. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar Subject: MANCINI'S PETER GUNN Date: 24 Mar 1998 09:21:57 -0300 Would anyone tell me about any groups or ensembles that played Henry Mancini's Peter Gunn? I listened to it last night in a local TV Show and it was great; rather fast, very well played, and there were reeds. It isn't "Oranj Simphonette". Thanks. Hugo, from Argentina. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David J. Keffer" <keffer@shell.planetc.com> Subject: Ives Date: 24 Mar 1998 09:24:43 -0500 >both are excellent, but (imo) Ives great masterpiece is the fourth >symphony. the orchestra is divided up, and in parts is playing two distinct >things at different tempi, an idea that would still be considered avant garde >when Stockhausen did it 40 years later. besides all of that it's really >gorgeous stuff. >shiurba@sfo.com >Ives: "Holidays" Symphony (either Bernstein's or Michael Tilson Thomas's >recordings), Symphony #4 (Tilson Thomas). >- --steve I have to agree with Steve. The two most "exciting" Ives pieces I know are the "Holidays" Symphony and Symphony #4 (in that order). David K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com> Subject: Re: john zorn/jean derome Date: 24 Mar 1998 09:51:51 -0500 On Mon, 23 Mar 1998 20:29:20 PST, "Fran Bacon" <c123018@hotmail.com> sed: >What recordings are currently available by J. Derome, and where can one >find them (i.e. what are the labels)? Wayside carries a number of his solo projects and collaborations: http://members.aol.com/Cuneiform2/way.cat.html God, it does the ol' heart good to see this kind of interest in his work! Jason -- Perfect Sound Forever perfect-sound@furious.com http://www.furious.com/perfect - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: philz <zampino@panix.com> Subject: Re: Musique Concrete Date: 24 Mar 1998 09:27:01 -0500 Frankco wrote: >I totally agree with Caleb Deupree that it is virtually impossible to find >musique concrete. When I asked at my local "classical music" record store for >Parmegiani, they took out a catalogue as thick as a phone book, but the name >Parmegiani wasn't in it, so they couldn't order it. Since this stuff is so >hard to find, I wouldn't really know which recordings are essential - >heck, I'm >not even sure of some of the stuff I have whether it is musique concrete or >electro-acoustic music or whatever. Actually one of the original (perhaps the original) Musique Concrete artists, Pierre Schaeffer, is finally properly documented in a 4-cd release from France on the Ina-grm label. Most of the material is from the 50's but has aged really well and is really fascinating... the book that comes with the set is in French so I can't comment, but it has some great photos :) Anyway I got my copy from Ear Rational (http://www.xmission.com/~ear/). >I've noticed that some of the more adventurous techno borders on >electro-acoustic music. I don't know if any of you are familiar with the >releases on the Berlin-based Basic Channel and Chain Reaction labels, but this >stuff is soooo close to electro-acoustic.... According to my roommate Will who keeps a Basic Channel discography at Hyperreal (http://www.hyperreal.org/music/exclusive/discogs/basic_channel/) Basic Channel is actually released out of Detroit though the music is probably made in Berlin; apparently they worked hard at confusing people :) phil - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: philz <zampino@panix.com> Subject: Re: john zorn/jean derome Date: 24 Mar 1998 09:01:31 -0500 >i don't know if any of you are familiar with Jean Derome, but here >>in Quebec he's sort of at the forefront of the avant-guard music scene > >What recordings are currently available by J. Derome, and where can one >find them (i.e. what are the labels)? check http://www.ptbo.igs.net/~verge/index.htm philz - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: edechena@thomas.butler.edu (Dechenaux Emmanuel) Subject: Re: A Question For All You Music Scholars Out There Date: 24 Mar 1998 11:06:32 -0500 (EST) Does anyone know of any concertos (from any musical period) with 4 > movements rather than the usual 3? Oh my god ! I didn't think about the Concerto for Double Bass and Orchestra by John Downey. A great, great time ! If you like four-movement pieces, check out for Corigliano's first symphony. This is great music in four movements. M_base - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fran Bacon" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: marc ducret solo Date: 24 Mar 1998 08:54:24 PST I can't remember anyone sharing any opinions about the new Ducret electric solo on Screwgun....how does everyone (anyone) like it? And he has an acoustic solo record too, right?...How's that? And earlier Ducret or other work as sideman (besides the obvious Berne/Bloodcount stuff).... Thanks, KSH ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian & Sharon Beuchaw <beuchaw@nathan.enteract.com> Subject: Re: Basic Channel Date: 24 Mar 1998 10:58:26 -0600 (CST) On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, philz wrote: > According to my roommate Will who keeps a Basic Channel discography at > Hyperreal (http://www.hyperreal.org/music/exclusive/discogs/basic_channel/) > Basic Channel is actually released out of Detroit though the music is > probably made in Berlin; apparently they worked hard at confusing people :) > > phil Um, I think the first few releases might've been made in Detroit, but then after that I'm pretty sure they were all pressed and manufactured in Berlin (so they could have better control over the quality). I got this info from a couple of articles in The Wire (#150 and the March 98 issue). The March 98 issue mentions that they have a pressing plant located in/by the Hard Wax record store in Berlin that seems to be the gathering place/HQ for most Basic Channel/Chain Reaction/etc. artists. Don't have the mags with me, so can't give exact quotes, but can do so later tonight if anyone wishes. Also, check out amor.rz.hu-berlin.de/~h0444rrf/bcdisc.html for an unofficial BC web page that is pretty comprehensive and up-to-date. cya brian "The most dementing of all modern sins: the inability to distinguish excellence from success." - David Hare - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nils Jacobson <JACOBSON@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu> Subject: Re: Medeski onward Date: 24 Mar 1998 12:10:01 +0100 FUNKADELlC <FUNKADELlC@aol.com> writes: > > HEY EVERYONE!!!!! CHECK OUT THE ALBUM "LUNAR CRUSH" by John Medeski and Dave > Fruzinski..... this shit is way way out funky jazz... its out there... good > good stuff.. cant stop listening to it. It's Fiuczynski, but anyway... Lunar Crush is, IMHO, for completists only. He and Medeski are a sympathetic team, but it's mostly Fuze's show, as far as I can tell. This record is a lot like the self-titled release by the Screaming Headless torsos. Heavy on the funk, with vocals, basically rock n roll with a twist. I would start with the Screaming Hedless Torsos if you want to go this direction, their album is more "together." It also has much more raw energy. I find it bears repeated listening much better than Lunar Crush. Also highly recommended is Fiuczynski on Santi Debriano's more jazzy release Soldiers of Fortune (Evidence). He does a very credible, perhaps unknowing, Mahavishnu impersonation there. That's got more of the in-n-out aesthetic that would likely appeal to people on this list. Debriano is a monster, and that particular album has a few big names on it: John Purcell, Kenny Werner, Ronnie Burrage, Joe Locke. -Nils - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Moran <moran@staff.juno.com> Subject: Ives Date: 24 Mar 1998 13:29:09 -0500 (EST) Hey, here's a little aside regarding Ives' music: If you're in NYC on March 28 or April 6, Sideshow (songs of Charles Ives) is performing at the Knit and at alt.coffee, respectively. This is an instrumental quartet which interprets Ives songs, including improvisation. -matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Artur Nowak" <arno@silesia.top.pl> Subject: Odp: MMW/LUNAR CRUSH Date: 24 Mar 1998 20:39:14 +0100 >Hugo, from Argentina: >In my opinion "Friday Afternoon in the Universe" is a great CD; DON'T >MISS "Lunar Crush" [Gramavision] by David Fiuczynski ("sick" guitar >player) & John Medeski, a very powerful album though I don't like vocals >included in some songs. Right! I hated the vocals from the first time I've heard "Lunar Crash". This kind of vocals reminds me of english glam rock, the disaster of '70: guys dressed like virgins and virgins dancing like witches. BTW: I know only one guy, who liked these scary vocals on "Lunar Crush": my friend, who is devoted Diamanda Galas fan. He made me aware of the fact, that I have an album with Diamanda (althought I said "no way, I hate her screaming") - it is THE BIG GUNDOWN by John Zorn (not often mentioned on this mailing list these times). I was shocked! Zorn and Diamanda, yes, yes! Artur Nowak (arno@silesia.top.pl) Licht und Liebe sich entzuenden - Wo sich Streng' und Milde finden. Zorn und Finsternis entbrennen - Wo sich Streng' und Milde trennen. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: More musique concrete Date: 24 Mar 1998 17:00:38 -0500 (EST) I am planning on doing a show on Francis Dhomont, his Frankenstein Symph. as well as foret profond which is on Empreintes Digitales, at 10:00 this Sun Mar. 29, for 2 hours. You can listen over the net if you have realaudio, visit http://www.wxyc.org. This show is called Broken Music, and the station is WXYC in Chapel Hill, NC (89.3). This show is on every Sunday from 10 until 12, but sometimes its kind of lame. For example, I've been trying to convince this one guy that Wynton Marsalis is a waste of time and doesn't belong on a new music show, but he just doesn't get it. Also, does anyone have any recommendations for oud/Turkish music, or other non-western improvisational music? I saw that Zorn mentioned some things on AAA records, but I'm not familiar with that label. I'm less concerned with getting an overview (like the Nonesuch explorer things) as much as something that is just reaaly good and rocks. Thanks in advance. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: Re[2]: musique concrete Date: 24 Mar 1998 17:22:13 -0500 (EST) > Also, if we're going to the far extreme of Music Concrete, I think > Negativland's Theme from Big 10-8 Place is fantastic and one of the > shining moments of the genre. But even though they are more "pop" like, > I think the planning and execution, the recurring themes and the dynamic > interplay of that peice are all fantastic. I also really enjoy Helter > Stupid and some of the tracks from Escape from Noise for the same > reasons. All excellently done. Much better than their later stuff. Except, i'd hasten to add, 'The Gun And The Bible' from 'FREE', which, in addition to being brilliantly escecuted, is also side-splittingly funny (a somewhat rare trait for electroacoustic music). -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Turkish music Date: 24 Mar 1998 17:38:59 -0500 >>>>> "William" == William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> writes: William> Also, does anyone have any recommendations for William> oud/Turkish music, or other non-western improvisational William> music? I saw that Zorn mentioned some things on AAA William> records, but I'm not familiar with that label. I'm less William> concerned with getting an overview (like the Nonesuch William> explorer things) as much as something that is just reaaly William> good and rocks. Thanks in advance. I've been pretty happy with some of Rabih Abou-Khalil's albums on Enja. He's a great oud player who allies himself with some very unlikely partners. Blue Camel features Kenny Wheeler, Charlie Mariano, and Steve Swallow (among others), and is a fine jazz-influenced date. Arabian Waltz features the Balinescu String Quartet -- amazing work from all involved. I've also got a newer one, Odd Times, which is a live date featuring Howard Levy, the harmonica player from Bela Fleck's Flecktones, and I'm not as impressed with this one. The sound is a bit too brash, not quite as hypnotic as the other two. One of Bruce Morris's conductions on New World took place in Turkey with Turkish musicians along with some westerners. Non-western improv in general -- tall order. Would you consider Nusrat improvisational? And there's a whole bunch of Japanese free improv listed at http://www2.gol.com/users/miyuki/index.html. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re: Medeski onward Date: 24 Mar 1998 17:50:53 -0500 Nils Jacobson wrote: > Also highly recommended is Fiuczynski on Santi Debriano's more jazzy > release Soldiers of Fortune (Evidence). He does a very credible, perhaps > unknowing, Mahavishnu impersonation there. That's got more of the > in-n-out aesthetic that would likely appeal to people on this list. > Debriano is a monster, and that particular album has a few big names on > it: John Purcell, Kenny Werner, Ronnie Burrage, Joe Locke. Caught Debriano in a trio with Andrew Cyrille and Billy Bang some years ago, and he was a monster even then. Recently though, I only hear of him playing in the kind of piano trio's that would tend to bore most zorn-listers. Anyone know of any more adventurous stuff that he's played on? Rich - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Re: Turkish music Date: 24 Mar 1998 16:58:26 -0600 >I've been pretty happy with some of Rabih Abou-Khalil's albums on >Enja. He's a great oud player who allies himself with some very ... By the way, what's an oud? Is it a reed instrument? What's it look like? On a side note, I wonder what an oon is... Take bassoon or contrabassoon for example, is there an altooon or a tenoroon? Is a oboe an oon of some sort? I don't think so. (just kidding...) Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Turkish music Date: 24 Mar 1998 18:01:00 -0500 >>>>> "Dan" == Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> writes: Dan> ... By the way, what's an oud? Is it a reed instrument? Dan> What's it look like? An Arabic lute, a little smaller than a European one (of which it is the ancestor), and fretless, I think. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Turkish music Date: 24 Mar 1998 19:30:05 -0500 (EST) On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Dan Hewins wrote: > >I've been pretty happy with some of Rabih Abou-Khalil's albums on > >Enja. He's a great oud player who allies himself with some very > ... > By the way, what's an oud? Is it a reed instrument? What's it look like? > > It's a lute-like stringed instrument. I think Ahmed Abdul-Malik was the first person to introduce it to jazz in the late 1950s. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net > > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dora Agiotis <stubb@globalserve.net> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #272 Date: 24 Mar 1998 21:00:24 -0500 I'm sorry, I made a slight mistake with the Victoriaville Festival address. The real won is: http://login.net/cdcbf/FIMAV - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Nonesuch Xenakis lp Date: 24 Mar 1998 22:00:35 -0500 For the record (ha ha), the Nonesuch Xenakis Electro-Acoustic Music lp (Nonesuch H-71246) was licensed from Disques Erato and contains Bohor I (1962, 21:56), Concret P-H II (1958, 2:38), Diamorphoses II (1957, 6:49) and Orient-Occident III (1959-1960, 11:12). - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Keiji Haino duets Date: 24 Mar 1998 23:11:30 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Charles Gillett wrote: > Can anyone recommend (or not recommend) Keiji Haino's duet CDs > with Derek Bailey, Peter Br=F6tzmann, or Loren MazzaCane Connors? > I've never heard Haino. There was a discussion about the best > Fushitsusha CDs here a while back, but for some reason I'm leaning > toward the duet CDs. I've got the duets with Brotzmann and Bailey. These are also the only Haino I know, so I can't compare with his other work. On the disc with Brotzmann, Haino sticks with vocals. It's histrionic, but very enjoyable. Presumably it's not representative since he doesn't play guitar. The disc with Bailey is fine, but Haino's approach here sounds awfully similar to Bailey's. I tend to enjoy Bailey's collaborations more when his partners have a contrasting approach, so I'd recommend the Brotzmann over the Bailey. But I'm suspicious that they're both atypical of Haino's work. (I gather he usually doesn't sound much like Bailey on guitar.) Chris Hamilton=20 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brian & Sharon Beuchaw <beuchaw@enteract.com> Subject: Re: Keiji Haino duets Date: 24 Mar 1998 22:38:41 -0600 (CST) On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, Christopher Hamilton wrote: > On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Charles Gillett wrote: >=20 > > Can anyone recommend (or not recommend) Keiji Haino's duet CDs > > with Derek Bailey, Peter Br=F6tzmann, or Loren MazzaCane Connors? > > I've never heard Haino. There was a discussion about the best > > Fushitsusha CDs here a while back, but for some reason I'm leaning > > toward the duet CDs. >=20 > I've got the duets with Brotzmann and Bailey. These are also the only > Haino I know, so I can't compare with his other work. On the disc with > Brotzmann, Haino sticks with vocals. It's histrionic, but very enjoyab= le. > Presumably it's not representative since he doesn't play guitar. The d= isc > with Bailey is fine, but Haino's approach here sounds awfully similar t= o > Bailey's. I tend to enjoy Bailey's collaborations more when his partne= rs > have a contrasting approach, so I'd recommend the Brotzmann over the > Bailey. But I'm suspicious that they're both atypical of Haino's work. > (I gather he usually doesn't sound much like Bailey on guitar.) >=20 > Chris Hamilton=20 Yep, you're right - on both the Bailey and Connors discs, he sounds too much like the partner. His usual style (if it can be called such) will rip your head off at about 300 paces. He's usually quite a bit more violent and noisy and loud and fantastic and seething and varied and whatever else I can't think of right now. :-) cya brian "The most dementing of all modern sins: the inability to distinguish excellence from success." - David Hare - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris Barrett" <cbarrett@neaq.org> Subject: Re: Cobra Date: 25 Mar 1998 00:46:43 -0500 I have a friend who works at the New England Conservatory who called me a week and a half ago to tell me that they (students) were performing Cobra at Jordan Hall that night, unfortunately I couldn't make it. A couple of years ago I did see a student/faculty program of Zorn compositions there that included preformances of Red Bird, Masada stuff and some Naked City. At the end of the performance it turned out that Zorn was in the audience the whole time. So it seems he condones performances of his work, including Cobra. -Chris At 09:39 PM 3/21/98 +1100, you wrote: >A friend of mine told me she was a part of a performance similar to Cobra a >few years ago, and I think they actually called it "John Zorn's Cobra". So >what I am wondering is, is there any specific procedure for putting on one >of these performances? Is it considered an infringement of copyright or >something? I need information... > > >- > > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: fate@telepath.com (Jon Mooneyham) Subject: Re: Cobra Date: 25 Mar 1998 00:03:32 -0600 Actually, there's been a rash of Cobra performances here (Norman, OK) through the channels of the OU Music School.I saw three different performances of it one evening about a month ago (paired w/ two premiere perfs of a Christian Wolff comp. for improv voices & instruments); the instrumentation was fairly varied (lotsa vocals, the most adept improvs of the bunch), with two of the perfs highly entertaining and one of 'em kinda tentative and piddly. And a friend called last week to clue me in to another perf. at OU by some collegiate ensemble from Texas - I passed on this'un. But it appears that Cobra's alive and well under academic auspices, anyway: who'da thunk it? >I have a friend who works at the New England Conservatory who called me a >week and a half ago to tell me that they (students) were performing Cobra >at Jordan Hall that night, unfortunately I couldn't make it. > >A couple of years ago I did see a student/faculty program of Zorn >compositions there that included preformances of Red Bird, Masada stuff and >some Naked City. At the end of the performance it turned out that Zorn was >in the audience the whole time. So it seems he condones performances of >his work, including Cobra. > >-Chris > > > >At 09:39 PM 3/21/98 +1100, you wrote: >>A friend of mine told me she was a part of a performance similar to Cobra a >>few years ago, and I think they actually called it "John Zorn's Cobra". So >>what I am wondering is, is there any specific procedure for putting on one >>of these performances? Is it considered an infringement of copyright or >>something? I need information... >> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: (MANCINI'S) PETER GUNN Date: 25 Mar 1998 17:06:32 +1100 (EST) On Tue, 24 Mar 1998 hulinare@bemberg.com.ar wrote: > Would anyone tell me about any groups or ensembles that played Henry > Mancini's Peter Gunn? > I listened to it last night in a local TV Show and it was great; rather > fast, very well played, and there were reeds. Haven't heard it, but I know Shelley Manne's version of Peter Gunn has just been re-issued on disc. Most of Manne's work is pretty great (err: to these ears, at least. Opinions differ in other quarters.) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michael Howes <mhowes@best.com> Subject: Re: Turkish music Date: 24 Mar 1998 22:15:26 -0800 >> Also, does anyone have any recommendations for >> oud/Turkish music, or other non-western improvisational >> music? I saw that Zorn mentioned some things on AAA >> records, but I'm not familiar with that label. I'm less >> concerned with getting an overview (like the Nonesuch >> explorer things) as much as something that is just reaaly >> good and rocks. Thanks in advance. Over the last year or so I was turned on to some amazing Oud music and for those in the Bay Area there is a show this weekend with quanun player Mimi Spencer and Turkish oud player Necati Celik, some place in Hayes Valley. Anything you can find by Necati Celik is amazing. I tend to like the Turkish players I've heard a lot more than other middle eastern players (but I learned this stuff froo a Turk) but another guy I like is, Munir Bachir who is from Iraq if I remember right. Some others that definitely rock are Munir Nurettin Beken from Turkey and Matar Muhammad who actually plays the buzuq but it's really similar to an oud. I also sent this this email to my friend who I learned this from who is now in Turkey playing with the Ankara (sp?) symphony and will probably get more recommendations from her. mike mhowes@best.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew R Levitt <levi0082@tc.umn.edu> Subject: MMW tapes Date: 25 Mar 1998 00:25:06 -0600 (CST) I've got plenty of MMW on dat and cassette. I'd be very interested trading for zorn/knitting factory/tzadik artists. -Matt "In music the passions enjoy themselves" Nietzsche. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: Cobra>>>Phlegm Date: 25 Mar 1998 17:27:16 +1100 (EST) On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Julian wrote: > Wow, it's good to see a name that rings a bell. I actually jammed with that > Rob guy at a free improvisation thing called "Left Of Centre". I never > realised he was in Phlegm. Are they any good? > Phlegm are fantastic: tho' sadly defunct at this point (I think). Third member was Sydney postal worker and throat-singer-of-reknown, Rizzili. He and Rob both have solo discs on the market. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: marc ducret solo Date: 25 Mar 1998 02:07:10 -0500 Fran Bacon wrote: > I can't remember anyone sharing any opinions about the new Ducret > electric solo on Screwgun....how does everyone (anyone) like it? I'd think it's unlikely that anyone's heard it... Tim just received the shipment last Friday (March 20, 1998), discs were forwarded to the distributors on Saturday, and most of the critics got their copies just yesterday, if our postal service is to be trusted. > And he has an acoustic solo record too, right?...How's that? Yup, "(d=E9tail)" on the Winter & Winter label. It's nice, very nice. A= nd different from the Screwgun disc. > And earlier Ducret or other work as sideman (besides the obvious > Berne/Bloodcount > stuff).... That I can't help you with. Ducret's stuff on Label Bleu is supposedly carried by a major American distributor now (same as the distributor for W&W) but damned if I can find any of their rekkids... http://home.sprynet.com/sprynet/ssmith36/ducret.htm for more info, althou= gh I've a sneaking suspicion you've already been there... Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com Screwgun Shill. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar Subject: L.CRUSH/EPHRON/L. TRIBE Date: 25 Mar 1998 09:39:21 -0300 "Vog", ""Pineapple", "Slow Blues for Fuzy's Mama" and "122 St. Marks" worth the price of LUNAR CRUSH. It's outstanding the performance of drummers Jojo Mayer and Gene Lake as fantastic the groove of Fima Ephron on electric & acoustic bass. You can also check LOST TRIBE, for another incredible Fima Ephron's session. Is there any more "heavy on the funk" out there? -Hugo, from Argentina - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: bobby previte Date: 25 Mar 1998 23:52:20 +1100 Can someone tell me what Bobby Previte's recordings are generally like, particularly "My Man In Sydney" and "Euclid's Nightmare"? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glenn Astarita <gastarit@comm.net> Subject: RE: marc ducret solo Date: 25 Mar 1998 07:11:25 -0600 > And earlier Ducret or other work as sideman (besides the obvious > Berne/Bloodcount > stuff).... [Glenn Astarita] I have Ducret's "Gris" which is on the Label Bleu = label as Steve mentioned. I did purchase it at Tower in New = Orleans......It's a nice outing. The only band member i recognize is = trumpet maestro Enrico Rava. In a nutshell, it's worth picking up if = you admire his electric guitar work. Mainly slow tempo numbers with MD = wailing away on his axe with some stellar support. Good tunes = .....etc.. glenn=20 - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andy Marks" <Andy.Marks@mts.com> Subject: Bun Ching Lam - The Child God Date: 25 Mar 1998 08:08:30 -0500 Anybody got this? Looks intriguing. I like traditional Asian type stuff. Let me know what you think. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rohan James Parkes <marlowe@labyrinth.net.au> Subject: RE: bobby previte Date: 26 Mar 1998 00:23:26 +1100 Hi Julian, I can tell you about My Man in Sydney, because I was there! It's an = enjoyable album, but it wouldn't be my first call on Previte. Previte's = always been interested in guitar-based rock, and this was his attempt at = putting together a "bar band". Ducret seems a bit under-utilised, for = one thing. Previte's initial works on Gramavision were rather meandering. I = wouldn't bother with Music for the Moscow Circus, (even though Previte = told me in an interview that he considers it his finest moment - he was = really referring to the difficulty of composing music at very short = notice for an already-existent ballet). Also, Pushing the Envelope and = Slay the Suitors were less than gripping. However, Previte at his best is definitely worth checking out. The one = that seems to have brought him critical attention is "Empty Suits", and = it is very good, although Bobby prefers "Claude's Late Morning" (both on = Gramavision). "Weather Clear, Track Fast" is excellent, as are a series = of albums Previte rather confusingly made with a group of that name - = "Hue and Cry" and "Too Close to the Pole" (there may have been another = one as well). All these last albums are on Enja. Hope this is helpful, Rohan Parkes Jazz Coordinator 3-PBS FM Melbourne Australia http://www.vicnet.net.au/~pbsfm/jazz/default.html -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 1998 11:52 PM Can someone tell me what Bobby Previte's recordings are generally like, particularly "My Man In Sydney" and "Euclid's Nightmare"? - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Electronic Music Festivals in France Date: 25 Mar 1998 13:29:31 UT Just picked this off another mailing list (exotica, of all things). How come we can't get cool shit like this going on over here? ============================ In France ============================ *Festival Manca The last sounds may have just faded from the air, but you should know that Festival Manca resumed in Nice (on the French Riviera) from March 7 to March 12, presented by CIRM (Centre National de Creation Musicale) with artistic direction by Michel Redolfi. The concerts included music by Xavier Bellenger, Henry Foures, Louis Dandrel, Jon Hassell, Eliane Radigue, Michel Redolfi, Luc Martinez, and Bernard Fort. And there were events presented in conjunction with GRM (Groupe de Recherches Musicales) in Paris to celebrate the 50th anniversary of musique concrete will include music by Daniel Teruggi, Francois Bayle, Pierre Henry, and Pierre Schaeffer. For detailed information: cirm_studio@compuserve.com http://www.imaginet.fr/manca http://www.rom.fr/manca *Musique en Scene Grame, a major research and production center in Lyons, France, produces the Musique en Scene festival every year. This year it was March 4 - 24, in Lyons and in the Rhone-Alpes region of France, and it was combined with the Futura festival and a range of concerts celebrating the pioneering works of Pierre Schaeffer, Pierre Henry, Iannis Xenakis, Luc Ferrari, Andre Boucourechliev, and others during the 1950s and 1960s, in addition to a large sampling of younger composers including Horacio Vaggione, Patrick Ascione, Kristine Burns, Philip Samartzis, and many others. grame@rd.grame.fr http://www.grame.fr http://perso.wanadoo.fr/futura - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: New Game Pieces Date: 25 Mar 1998 13:35:33 UT Just wondering if Zorn still composes game pieces or has he moved over to the deterministic side of things for good? How long has it been since he did Cobra? Anyone know? Just curious, Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rohan James Parkes <marlowe@labyrinth.net.au> Subject: Previte's Web Site Date: 26 Mar 1998 00:37:02 +1100 Hey, how about checking out Previte's Web Site <http://members.aol.com/Previte/index.html>? It's depressingly low on hits! Rohan Parkes Jazz Coordinator 3-PBS FM Melbourne Australia http://www.vicnet.net.au/~pbsfm/jazz/default.html - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Filmworks VIII Date: 25 Mar 1998 13:41:13 UT I just got Filmworks VIII (also FW7, which is fantastic, although a bit short at 25 minutes) and was wondering how the Masada tunes stack up against the "real" thing. I'm embarrassed to say I've never heard the real thing, so I don't have anything to compare these to. These are very low key, but very beautiful. Are these same pieces as low key with the jazz combo? Just wondering, Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Electronic Music Festivals in France Date: 25 Mar 1998 08:55:20 -0500 >>>>> "peter" == peter risser <peter_risser@cinfin.com> writes: peter> Just picked this off another mailing list (exotica, of all peter> things). How come we can't get cool shit like this going peter> on over here? For some reason that I've never been able to comprehend, the French have always been extremely supportive of this kind of music. Most of the major labels which specialize here (INA-GRM, Metamkine, GMVL -- the 'L' in this acronym is Lyon) are from France, and the other major one (Empreintes Digitales) is from Quebec, which would like to be France. Seem to be pretty well funded, maybe it's that 75% tax bracket they have over there... --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "J.T. de Boer" <s0821683@let.rug.nl> Subject: Re: L.CRUSH/EPHRON/L. TRIBE Date: 25 Mar 1998 16:12:08 +0100 Cc: zorn-list@xmission.com Check out the Screaming Headless Torsos. It's a band with a.o Dave Fuczynski, Fima Ephron and Jojo Mayer. They have two incredible albums out; one selftitled and a live album with Greg Lake on drums. When you compare these albums with Lunar Crush, they're much, much better! It's something like a jazz-oriented Living Colour kind of 70's jazzrock ensemble. Buy them! Jeroen de Boer "Vog", ""Pineapple", "Slow Blues for Fuzy's Mama" and "122 St. Marks" worth the price of LUNAR CRUSH. It's outstanding the performance of drummers Jojo Mayer and Gene Lake as fantastic the groove of Fima Ephron on electric & acoustic bass. You can also check LOST TRIBE, for another incredible Fima Ephron's session. Is there any more "heavy on the funk" out there? -Hugo, from Argentina - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gauthier Michelle A <7mag2@qlink.queensu.ca> Subject: Re: New Game Pieces Date: 25 Mar 1998 10:48:18 -0500 (EST) Well, John still performs Cobra live. The last Cobra gig was in San Francisco in January. I also saw Cobra in August of 96 at the Knitting Factory. As for him actually composing new game pieces and making new Cobra CD's, I doubt it. That remains to be seen. m. On Wed, 25 Mar 1998 peter_risser@cinfin.com wrote: > Just wondering if Zorn still composes game pieces or has he moved over to the > deterministic side of things for good? How long has it been since he did Cobra? > Anyone know? > > Just curious, > Peter > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: New Game Pieces Date: 25 Mar 1998 10:03:20 -0600 (CST) On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, Gauthier Michelle A wrote: > Well, John still performs Cobra live. The last Cobra gig was in San > Francisco in January. I also saw Cobra in August of 96 at the Knitting > Factory. As for him actually composing new game pieces and making new > Cobra CD's, I doubt it. That remains to be seen. One thing that's struck me in listening to his recent music (as opposed to his recent released of old material, such as Angelus Novus) is how structurally conservative it is. A lot of the Masada material sounds to me (without an extremely close listening and analysis) to be classic head-improv-head structures. What is the structure like in his NYPhilharmonic piece? I would love to see Tzadik or whomever publish a book of the game piece scores, if they can be understood without his in-person coaching. Are there any plans for this in the works (or is anyone on this list in a position to kickstart such a project)? - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SAM Records <linemen@clark.net> Subject: Re: (MANCINI'S) PETER GUNN Date: 25 Mar 1998 11:04:07 -0500 (EST) There are two pretty cool versions I know about, but nobody really beats the Mancini original (now available remastered on the amazing Henry Mancini box set): Four-Piece Suits (Boston) and Oranj Symphonette (San Francisco) both have all-Mancini records worth checking out. Kevin Johnson On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, James Douglas Knox wrote: > > On Tue, 24 Mar 1998 hulinare@bemberg.com.ar wrote: > > > Would anyone tell me about any groups or ensembles that played Henry > > Mancini's Peter Gunn? > > I listened to it last night in a local TV Show and it was great; rather > > fast, very well played, and there were reeds. > > Haven't heard it, but I know Shelley Manne's version of Peter Gunn has > just been re-issued on disc. Most of Manne's work is pretty great (err: > to these ears, at least. Opinions differ in other quarters.) > > > - > 1415 Union Avenue Baltimore, MD 21211-1906 WEB: http://www.jlsystems.com/linemen/ EMAIL: kevinjohnson@royal.net FAX: 410-366-7329 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SAM Records <linemen@clark.net> Subject: funny games Date: 25 Mar 1998 11:08:47 -0500 (EST) Saw the premiere of a new German film by Michael Haneke, "Funny Games" at the Film Forum in NYC this weekend. It featured some stuff from Naked City (_Grand Guiginol_) in the title credits that was just fabulously effective. Highly recommended for fans of postmodern film. Kevin Johnson 1415 Union Avenue Baltimore, MD 21211-1906 WEB: http://www.jlsystems.com/linemen/ EMAIL: kevinjohnson@royal.net FAX: 410-366-7329 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Ives Date: 25 Mar 1998 08:10:56 -0800 > >Ives: "Holidays" Symphony (either Bernstein's or Michael Tilson Thomas's > >recordings), Symphony #4 (Tilson Thomas). > >- --steve > > I have to agree with Steve. The two most "exciting" Ives > pieces I know are the "Holidays" Symphony and Symphony #4 > (in that order). > > David K. > Fellas, may I recommend the inexpensive Stockowski recording of the Fourth on Sony? That and the full price one by Christoph von Dohnanyi that's coupled with Varese "Amerique," they both are a shade better than the Tilson Thomas, IMO, although MTT is the best on the "Holidays Symphony," which by the way also uses the multiple orchestra device in the Washington's Birthday movement, where Ives recreats the sound of three marching bands playing simultaneously along different points of the parade. Like parts of the Fourth, this music requires a second conductor. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Musique Concrete Date: 25 Mar 1998 08:16:14 -0800 > >I totally agree with Caleb Deupree that it is virtually impossible to find > >musique concrete. When I asked at my local "classical music" record store for > >Parmegiani, they took out a catalogue as thick as a phone book, but the name > >Parmegiani wasn't in it, so they couldn't order it. Since this stuff is so > >hard to find, I wouldn't really know which recordings are essential - > >heck, I'm > >not even sure of some of the stuff I have whether it is musique concrete or > >electro-acoustic music or whatever. > > Actually one of the original (perhaps the original) Musique Concrete > artists, Pierre Schaeffer, is finally properly documented in a 4-cd release > from France on the Ina-grm label. Most of the material is from the 50's > but has aged really well and is really fascinating... the book that comes > with the set is in French so I can't comment, but it has some great photos > :) Anyway I got my copy from Ear Rational (http://www.xmission.com/~ear/). > Frankco, Sounds like the record store clerk was looking in the Schwann guide to recordings in print. I can't remember the exact title or lable off the top of my head [I'm at work right now], but there is a very good collection of classic Musique Concrete which features the Varese "Poeme Electronique," which I believe is the first ever piece of that type, as well as Babbitt, Reynolds, et. al. The Schwann guide should have it under Varese. There is also a great CD on New World Records of film scores by Vladimir Ussachevsky. I would urge this one on anybody. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: A Question For All You Music Scholars Out There Date: 25 Mar 1998 08:18:21 -0800 Concertos with four movements? Does it have to be exactly four, or just more than three? There's many, and many more than I can possibly think of right now, I'm sure. If memory serves, the Lutoslawski Piano Concerto is four movement, so is the Stravinsky Violin Concerto. You can always check with Prokofiev for a plethora of concerto movements, five in at least one piano concerto. That's a start. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Turkish music Date: 25 Mar 1998 08:25:40 -0800 > Non-western improv in general -- tall order. Would you consider > Nusrat improvisational? And there's a whole bunch of Japanese free > improv listed at http://www2.gol.com/users/miyuki/index.html. > If you're looking for non-western improvisation, go to a record store section that features traditional non-western music [non-pop], close your eyes and point at something. Improvisation is a basis for pretty much every non-western style. In general, try Gnawa music from Morocco, Gamelan music, all Indian music [yes, Nusrat is highly improvisational]. If you're looking for totally free improvisation though, that is pretty much a 20th century western thing. As other people have mentioned, there is a lot of recordings combining jazz players and non-western improvisation, or western players improvising non-western music. May I mention Codona, Glen Velez, lots of Don Cherry, and many of the recent Butch Morris conduction series. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: Re: (MANCINI'S) PETER GUNN Date: 25 Mar 1998 17:31:11 +0100 (MEZ) there is one by Emerson, Lake and Palmer : ) B - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be> Subject: Re: (MANCINI'S) PETER GUNN Date: 25 Mar 1998 17:44:54 +0100 > > On Tue, 24 Mar 1998 hulinare@bemberg.com.ar wrote: > > > Would anyone tell me about any groups or ensembles that played Henry > > Mancini's Peter Gunn? > > I listened to it last night in a local TV Show and it was great; rather > > fast, very well played, and there were reeds. > > Haven't heard it, but I know Shelley Manne's version of Peter Gunn has > just been re-issued on disc. Most of Manne's work is pretty great (err: > to these ears, at least. Opinions differ in other quarters.) There are also versions by: -Roland Kirk (and I think: the Quincy Jones Big Band) -The Art of Noise -Dick Dale YVes - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: (MANCINI'S) PETER GUNN Date: 25 Mar 1998 10:45:39 -0600 (CST) On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, BJOERN wrote: > > there is one by Emerson, Lake and Palmer : ) There's also an all-percussion one led by Michael Pugliese on his CD "Perkin' at Merkin" with Kory Grossman, Christopher Nappi and William Trigg. See http://www.mode.com/catalog/025pugliese.html - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re[2]: New Game Pieces Date: 25 Mar 1998 17:16:07 UT Oh wow. I would buy that book in a heart beat. In fact, a book of any of his scores. The cartoon one I saw (Roadrunner) was so graphically interesting... Yeah, in a second. Peter <<I would love to see Tzadik or whomever publish a book of the game piece scores, if they can be understood without his in-person coaching. Are there any plans for this in the works (or is anyone on this list in a position to kickstart such a project)? >> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Michel Rondeau <rondelle@bos.ca> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #274 Peter Gunn Date: 25 Mar 1998 12:24:25 -0500 >Hendrix also covered it on War Heroes or Hendrix in the West. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Knutboy <Knutboy@aol.com> Subject: Re: (MANCINI'S) PETER GUNN Date: 25 Mar 1998 14:08:29 EST Johnny Kidd & The Pirates! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William R Baker <wrb@christa.unh.edu> Subject: Re: Re[2]: New Game Pieces Date: 25 Mar 1998 14:13:53 -0500 (EST) I think a published book of Zorn scores would be great. Especially if printed by Tzadik. In the book of heads CD he talks about how he hoped that one day the pieces would be studied by many guitarists to learn how to improvise. John, if you don't publish your pieces how do you expect all these people to learn them? I for one have played a game piece or two and seen some of the scores so I know they exist and are distributed to people John Zorn chooses. I met a kid from New England Conservatory who asked John for some Naked City scores and JZ practically gave him compies of ALL of the Naked City pieces. We could somehow make a new "real book" of some of JZ's pieces since the scores would be obtainable from different sources But I would much rather buy them from Tzadik along with the explanations of how the pieces work. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Toby Dodds <toby@seanet.com> Subject: RE: Bobby Previtte Date: 25 Mar 1998 12:01:16 -0800 (PST) FYI- The Quartet featuring: Wayne Horvitz - keyboards (Nord Lead) Skerik - tenor sax, electronics Dave Palmer - keyboards (Rhodes) Bobby Previtte - drums is recording in Seattle in April. There will be two shows in town at the OK Hotel on April 9th & 10th, I believe. Past performances of this group have been completely improvised and inspiring. Anytime Wayne and Bobby collaborate it's a must see. I wonder when the other quartet record comes out with E#, Zorn, Horvitz & Previtte? Could be an interesting comparison, maybe they should make it one double CD.... Just a thought. ;) Toby wow a post without mentioning ZONY MASH... incredible. DOH! - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Doug McKay" <mckay003@maroon.tc.umn.edu> Subject: Surrender to the Air Date: 25 Mar 1998 14:38:11 Players: Marshall Allen, Trey Anastasio, Kofi Burbridge, Oteil Burbridge, Damon R. Choice, Jon Fishman, Bob Gulloti, James Harvey, John Medeski, Michael Ray, Marc Ribot. 1996 Elektra. Produced by Trey Anastasio I imagine this would be called a variant of Free Jazz. It's very coherent and seems almost composed. There are two pieces. The listing goes like this: 1.Intro 2.And Furthermore 3.We Deflate 4.And Furthermore 5.Down 6.Intro 7.And Furthermore 8.And Furthermore 9.Out The music is rather mellow, and even when it gets chaotic it isn't over the top. Good drumming. No one instrument commands the performance. I'd buy another. Doug McKay In Minnesota - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Caulfield Bivins <jbivins@indiana.edu> Subject: ducret Date: 25 Mar 1998 15:21:10 -0500 (EST) OK, file this under "lost causes" but if anyone is able to track down a copy of Ducret's "News from the Front" I recommend it highly. It's not just a guitar album but features some nice work from trombonist Yves Robert and, if memory serves, Herb Robertson as well. Sadly, it's one of the many old JMT albums that are out of print -- but you can get it from import CD sites, I believe. I don't know of too much other stuff (though I believe some of the Label Bleu stuff is available from Cadence), other than Berne and Sclavis. I'm looking forward to the solo discs. Jason Bivins - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Surrender to the Air Date: 25 Mar 1998 15:35:05 -0500 (EST) Doug: If you like that you should start to investigate (if you haven't already the recorded work of Sun and Michael Ray and the Kosmic Krewe. Ray has one CD on Evidence. Ra has a whole series of must-haves --on Evidence, on Delmark, on Leo, on hatArt etc. etc. I'd start with the soundtrack to Space Is The Place, Angels and Demons and we Travel The Spaceways (all Evidence). Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, Doug McKay wrote: > Players: Marshall Allen, Trey Anastasio, Kofi Burbridge, Oteil Burbridge, > Damon R. Choice, Jon Fishman, Bob Gulloti, James Harvey, John Medeski, > Michael Ray, Marc Ribot. > > 1996 Elektra. Produced by Trey Anastasio > > I imagine this would be called a variant of Free Jazz. It's very coherent > and seems almost composed. There are two pieces. The listing goes like > this: > > 1.Intro 2.And Furthermore 3.We Deflate 4.And Furthermore 5.Down > 6.Intro 7.And Furthermore 8.And Furthermore 9.Out > > The music is rather mellow, and even when it gets chaotic it isn't over the > top. Good drumming. No one instrument commands the performance. > > I'd buy another. > > Doug McKay > In Minnesota > > > > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: { brad brace } <bbrace@wired.com> Subject: Re: MMW tapes Date: 25 Mar 1998 12:45:08 -0800 (PST) > From: Matthew R Levitt <levi0082@tc.umn.edu> > > I've got plenty of MMW on dat and cassette. I'd be very interested > trading for zorn/knitting factory/tzadik artists. Now, I'm rarely disappointed by the first two, so I wonder what tzadik is? The_12hr-ISBN-JPEG_Project <<< > episodic ftp://ftp.wco.com/users/bbrace < > eccentric ftp://ftp.netcom.com/pub/bb/bbrace < > continuous ftp://ftp.teleport.com/users/bbrace < > hypermodern ftp://ftp.rdrop.com/pub/users/bbrace < > imagery online ftp://ftp.pacifier.com/pub/users/bbrace < Usenet-news: alt.binaries.pictures.12hr/ a.b.p.fine-art.misc Mailing-list: listserv@netcom.com / subscribe 12hr-isbn-jpeg Reverse Solidus: http://www.teleport.com/~bbrace/bbrace.html { brad brace } <<<< bbrace@netcom.com >>>> ~finger for pgp - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Discs Date: 25 Mar 1998 17:09:09 -0500 I promise this is the last time I'll do this kind of thing in a LONG while. I'm sure these things piss some people off... Well, I'm sorry. Feel free to bitch at me. First come, first serve and I'll cover postage unless you're international. Thanks. John Cage: The Complete String Quartets, Vol. 1 - perf. by Arditti Qrt. (Mode) $10 Alvin Curran: Schtyx - feat. Abel-Steinberg-Winant Trio (CRI) $10 Myra Melford: The Same River, Twice - w/Douglas, Friedlander, Speed & Sarin (Gramavision) $9 Fred Frith & Henry Kaiser: With Enemies Like These, Who Needs Friends? (SST) $9 Elliott Sharp & The Soldier String Quartet: Cryptid Fragments (Extreme) $10 Donald Byrd: Kofi - same session as 'Electric Byrd' (Blue Note) $8 Parliament: Tear The Roof Off (1974-1980) - 2-disc anthology (Casablanca) $14 Parliament: 'Live' P-Funk Earth Tour (Casablanca) $9 New and Used: Souvenir -w/Douglas, Feldman, Driscoll, etc. (Knitting Factory) $9 Jonas Hellborg/Buckethead/Michael Shrieve: Octave of the Holy Innocents (Day Eight) $9 The Quintet (Gillespie, "Bird", B. Powell, Mingus & Roach): Jazz at Massey Hall (Debut) $9 Steve Reich: The Desert Music (Nonesuch) $8 -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: edechena@thomas.butler.edu (Dechenaux Emmanuel) Subject: Re: ducret Date: 25 Mar 1998 17:49:27 -0500 (EST) Of course, News From the Front is highly recommended ! Did you know it was the soundtrack of some obscure German movie ? It is a great CD. Gris is excellent also, and Le Kodo isn't bad at all. The arrangements on News from the front are particularly great, with Ducret or Yves Robert playing on the edge of the pitch. Everything or almost everything has been written down ! Ducret writes almost all his music. Well, try to get Details if you haven't listened to it yet. See ya. M_base - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrick Stockton" <sheepherder@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: Question for Music Scholars Date: 25 Mar 1998 17:14:55 -0800 to the person who was inquiring.... i was unaware of Brahm's use of a fourth movement in any of his large works (concerti, symponies, etc). but then again im not the biggest Brahm's fan. The use of three movements in concerti and four in symphonies was established in the classical era by masters such as Mozart and Haydn. Even throughout the Romantic period, composers were sticking to this standard, merely exchanging minuet-and-trio sections for scherzos and other new movement styles coined by greats like Beethoven. not until the 20th cent. with composers like Stravinsky, Mahler, etc. do we start to see four movements in a concerto and five in a symphony. i am not sure if there is one particular composer of historical or artistic merit who can be pinpointed as the innovator of more movements. you might have found him yourself in Brahms. anyone else???? patrick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Zachary <zachary@netwalk.com> Subject: Re: (MANCINI'S) PETER GUNN Date: 25 Mar 1998 21:21:48 -0500 Something interesting to check out is _Shots in the Dark_, a sort of tribute record to Henry Mancini. Lots of surfy-type and lounge-style versions of Mancini classics, including Man Or Astro-Man? ("Touch of Evil"), Oranj Symphonette ("The Pink Panther Theme"), Wiskey Biscuit ("A Shot in the Dark"), and Friends of Dean Martinez ("Lonesome"). And who does "The Peter Gunn Theme"? None other than Poison Ivy of the Cramps. _Shots in the Dark_ is on Donna Records, a division of Del-Fi Records (catalog # DOCD 2113). -Zachary - _________________________ )) Zachary (( [|**| zachary@netwalk.com |**|] |__| "Coffee Cures Everything" |__| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fran Bacon" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: marc ducret: unsung badass Date: 25 Mar 1998 20:26:32 PST Hey! I just remembered a record I had with Marc Ducret, strictly on 6- and 12-string acoustics---Louis Sclavis/Dominique Pifarely: ACOUSTIC QUARTET (ECM). I've had it for years and only listened to it again last night. Great record, with easily one of the best currently working clarinetists/bass-clarinetists in the world, Sclavis! The nature of the compositions reminds me a little of the Chimera WATCHMAN record, by all means a "chamber jazz" record but the playing is great, the improvising violin is better than Stephane Grapelli and arguably less inclined toward cliches than Mark Feldman, and Ducret simply has his own thing happening. Check it out! Holy cow! KSh ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: musique concrete Date: 26 Mar 1998 16:09:50 +1100 (EST) On Sun, 22 Mar 1998, ia zha nah er vesen wrote: (snip) > Things brings up the question of whether to make a distinction between > prjects like the above, or "bands" such as Zoviet France,the Hafler Trio, > Nurse With Wound, and the more 'accademic' electroacoustic composers such > as Stockhausen. Some albums by NWW (not all) are very much in this vein, Dunno about this distinction; these "bands" owe as much to an academic tradition as some of the more "academic" composers; the main difference is in their marketing strategy: I understand Todd Dockstader (e.g.) was opposed to any such thing. Also: I don't know that NWW or Zoviet France are really operating out of a popular idiom (tho': what about something like Rap?) To say nothing of contemporary pop-music production-techniques, per se. I mean: if you look to where this stuff really started to come before an Anglo audience, it was maybe with: cut-ups of Buchanan and Goodman, Joe Meek's concrete intro to 'Telstar'. I'm a big fan of Jean-Jacques Perrey from way back, and his work might confuse a distinction between 'popular' and 'academic' even further. But to me, these terms are only indications of how many units a particular title managed to shift. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Fran Bacon" <c123018@hotmail.com> Subject: haino Date: 25 Mar 1998 21:09:43 PST I just got F'susha's DOUBLE LIVE (PSF 15/16) and I am stoked! This shit is so amazing it makes me want to throw up. I will, no doubt get the GOLD BLOOD record and a bunch of solo stuff. To all those who made suggestions, I thank you. I haven't been more excited than this since I got ahold of a London Jazz Composers' Orchestra record. I just rue that the Japanese stuff isn't a few bucks cheaper on the average. Better distribution might make them more affordable, one might think they would sell better....is this guy a superstar in Japan? I'd be interested in opinions on the Purple Trap box, although one or two of you mentioned it in your earlier e.mails. If anyone wants to sell their Purple Trap, I'm on. And to Tom Pratt or whoever had an ALLEGORICAL MISUNDERSTANDING CD for sale---I want it, but I lost your address...is it still there....? Bye SCOTT ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: flamerik@best.ms.philips.com Subject: Re: Russian composers Date: 26 Mar 1998 08:33:43 +0100 > (snip) > > > > There is also a great CD on New World Records of film scores by Vladimir > > Ussachevsky. I would urge this one on anybody. > > > This sounds wild! Could you maybe post the titles of the films these > scores were for? When I read this, I got an association with the Russian composer who did the scores for Stalker and Solaris. His name is Edward Artemyev. I haven't heard the scores, but can someone tell me whether these are any good, and whether they are available? Frankco. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yves Dewulf <yves@inwpent1.rug.ac.be> Subject: Re: musique concrete Date: 26 Mar 1998 09:52:47 +0100 > I mean: if you look to where this stuff really started to come > before an Anglo audience, it was maybe with: cut-ups of Buchanan and > Goodman, Joe Meek's concrete intro to 'Telstar'. I'm a big fan of > Jean-Jacques Perrey from way back, and his work might confuse a > distinction between 'popular' and 'academic' even further. But to me, > these terms are only indications of how many units a particular title > managed to shift. Speaking of Jean-Jacques Perry, he 'borrowed' quite often bits of musique concrete by Pierre Henry. (on the LP":Moog Indigo (1969), he uses bits of "Messe pour le temps present" by Henry/Colombier) YVes - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Aaron Chee-Kean Chua <a.chua@ugrad.unimelb.edu.au> Subject: kristallnacht Date: 26 Mar 1998 20:04:15 +1100 (EST) hi, i just got Kristallnacht yesterday and am a little concerned about listening to Never Again. how seriously should i take the warning in the liner notes re: hearing damage/ loss? will playing the track softly be just as harmful to my hearing? i don't really know much about the human ear so any advice would be appreciated. thanks. aaron. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Vadim Marmer <msvadi@olive.mscc.huji.ac.il> Subject: keith jarrett-lou harrison Date: 26 Mar 1998 12:36:15 +0200 (WET) i`m looking for information on Keith Jarrett`s "Piano Concerto / Suite for Violin, Piano and Small Orchestra, (Lou Harrison)". I saw this CD in the "Tower", but because of their new "yellow label" policy i can listen to it only if i`m buying the CD, so before i do it, i`d like to know if it`s worth buying? any opinion will be appreciated. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glenn Lea <glenn_lea@avid.com> Subject: Re: New Thing reissues Date: 26 Mar 1998 07:42:37 -0500 guthartz@nwu.edu wrote: > > At 04:09 PM 3/25/98 -0400, bopie@DRYCAS.CLUB.CC.CMU.EDU wrote: > >I'm curious about comments regarding the latest Impulse! New Thing > >reissues. I have the Sun Ra disc, I think I've heard one of the two > >Pharoah Sanders recordings. I am not familiar with the two Archie Shepp > >discs, the Elvin Jones & Jimmy Garrison recording, or the new Coltrane > >(the latter was available mostly on some collection). Thoughts? > > The Ra disc is the best of the bunch IMO, and the Shepp and Trane reissues > are fantastic. Shepp's Live in SF is 70+ minutes -- two entire LPs plus one more track. The band includes Roswell Rudd in peak form. Nice mix of "tunes" and longform free blowout. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: DR S WILKIE <S.Wilkie@swansea.ac.uk> Subject: morton feldman Date: 26 Mar 1998 12:35:58 GMT0BST can someone recommend one of the morton feldman cds of the later works? e.g. "string quartet", "trio" "clarinet and string quartet" etc. i just want one cd by him: are they all pretty similar or does one in particular stand out? thanks... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Julien Quint <julien.quint@xrce.xerox.com> Subject: Marc Ducret (then Keith Tippett) Date: 26 Mar 1998 14:31:18 +0100 Funny there's a discussion about Marc Ducret right now... I have mixed feelings about him since yesterday. I don't know much of his stuff but what I had heard so far was very good -- his playing in Caos Totale and also a few pieces I heard on the radio some time ago of solo electric guitar where he would make a very interesting use of distortion -- but yesterday night he was playing a show in my city for a jazz festival as a leader and that was appalling. Ducret's sound on guitar was irritating at best, with lots of reverb (not a good thing when you do start/stops), the compositions were pretty lazy and very long, with lenghty stretches of improvisation that didn't go anywhere, and his playing was so sufficient and guitar-hero-like. He was only listening to himself playing, not to the other players (which is a pity because Bruno Chevillon played upright bass, and *he* was very good, unfortunately the star was Ducret.) I've seen more interesting heavy metal shows; here there was no dynamics, and the only images that this music brought were those of a big guy in tight pants playing guitar. Reminded me of Nigel Tufnel's solo in Spinal Tap, except his was funnier. That was really a pity because as far as I know Ducret can be very good in a group setting, or even solo, but as a leader... I was planning to record the show and couldn't for some reason, but I really don't regret now. On the other hand I regret I couldn't record Keith Tippett and his band Mugician (Paul Dunmall on sax, Paul Rogers on upright bass and Tony Levine on drums) the day before either. Their performance was the total opposite of Ducret's: it was group playing all along, new things happened constantly, making the whole hour they played a magical moment. I guess the name they chose for this formation is very representative of what they do. Tippett was playing prepared piano, and it was fun to see in the reflections of the piano case what he was doing to get such sounds out of his instrument. Paul Rogers was amazing on bass, inventive and ressourceful. Paul Dunmall was impressive as well... As opposed to Ducret, the improvisational moments were so tight that it was hard to tell what was composed and what was improvised. Moreover, their dynamic range was very large, and the music very evocative. Every time something new, fresh, inventive was played, one musician would finish the phrase another would have started. They played for one hour with no pause, and kept good things coming all the time. Too bad there was no encore... Anyone has recommendation on Keith Tippett? Does this group Mugician have any records out? I'd sure like to hear that. Sorry it was so long -- but I don't post often... * Julien - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Alan E Kayser <aek1@erols.com> Subject: Re: ducret Date: 26 Mar 1998 08:50:38 -0500 Jason Caulfield Bivins wrote: > OK, file this under "lost causes" but if anyone is able to track down > a > copy of Ducret's "News from the Front" I recommend it highly. snip Forget it, the old JMT releases are impossible to find. This is one I've been looking for, no luck. > I don't know of too much other stuff (though I believe some of the > Label > Bleu stuff is available from Cadence), Yes they are. Once they were hard to find, but are in general release here in the US. > other than Berne and Sclavis. His work on Berne's Caos Totale, Diminutive Mysteries, and original Bloodcount is excellent. Especially on Caos Totale's "Pace Yourself." He tens to be somewhat buried in Bloodcount, except when soloing. If you can find Berne's "Big Satan" you'll get an excellent dose of Ducret. Don't buy the ECM Sclavis to hear Ducret. He's buried in the mix and does nothing of note. > I'm > looking forward to the solo discs. Don't yet have the electric solo, but found the acoustic to be a disappointment. Sorry Marc, not this time. > Alan Kayser > > > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Marc Ducret (then Keith Tippett) Date: 26 Mar 1998 08:36:28 -0500 >>>>> "Julien" == Julien Quint <julien.quint@xrce.xerox.com> writes: Julien> Anyone has recommendation on Keith Tippett? Does this Julien> group Mugician have any records out? I'd sure like to hear Julien> that. They have two CDs on Cuneiform (yes, the prog rock outfit), although I haven't heard either one. Check out http://members.aol.com/Cuneiform2/cuneiform.html. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: morton feldman Date: 26 Mar 1998 08:16:26 -0600 (CST) On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, DR S WILKIE wrote: > can someone recommend one of the morton feldman cds of the later > works? e.g. "string quartet", "trio" "clarinet and string quartet" > etc. i just want one cd by him: are they all pretty similar or does > one in particular stand out? thanks... I recommend "Piano and String Quartet", recorded on Nonesuch (I think) by Aki Takahashi and the Kronos Quartet: ELEKTRA NONESUCH PIANO AND STRING QUARTET 1993 7559-79320-2 1985 Piano and String Quartet or "Only" on New Albion: NEW ALBION ONLY: WORKS FOR VOICE AND INSTRUMENTS 1996 NA085 CD 1946 Only 1962 For Franz Kline 1963 Vertical Thoughts V 1972 Pianos and Voices 1973 Voices and Cello 1976 Voice, Violin and Piano OTOH, I prefer his middle period, before he latched on to the repeating modules. For those, I'd recommend the disc of his music on Auvidis Montaigne: AUVIDIS MONTAIGNE MORTON FELDMAN 1994 MO 782018 1970 The Viola in My Life I 1970 The Viola in My Life II 1971 I Met Heine on the Rue Frstenberg 1973 For Frank O'Hara 1976 Routine Investigations OTOOH, if you want to get only one later-period piece, and can afford the 4 CD set, you might go with "For Philip Gustion", which exists in two recordings: HAT HUT FOR PHILIP GUSTON 1992 ART CD 61041/4 1984 For Philip Guston BRIDGE RECORDS FOR PHILIP GUSTON 1997 BRIDGE 9078A/D 1984 For Philip Guston + Audio-visual track for Windows 95, 3.1 computers OYAH: You might also look into his later large-ensemble works, which had a very different, much denser sound. Two excellent examples: HAT HUT NEITHER 1997 ART 102 1977 Neither (Opera in One Act) CPO ... AND ORCHESTRA 1997 CPO 999 483-2 1972 Cello and Orchestra 1975 Piano and Orchestra 1976 Oboe and Orchestra 1978 Flute and Orchestra ... the CPO bing a double-disc available very inexpensively. These discography listing are from the excellent resource at http://www.cnvill.demon.co.uk/mfcds.htm Was that more than you wanted to know?-) - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: Marc Ducret (then Keith Tippett) Date: 26 Mar 1998 06:18:16 -0800 >Anyone has recommendation on Keith Tippett? Does this group Mugician have >any records out? I'd sure like to hear that. >Julien UNE CROIX DANS L'OCEAN is a materpiece to my ears...Victo CD031...and I don't usually like solo piano. He sounds like an orchestra on piano...at times a gamelan orchestra...and his regular ole piano playing skills are stunning. I have one Mujician recording and I would describe it exactly as you described the concert. Can't recall the title and don't have it at hand......need coffee. keith - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Keith Tippett and Roswell Rudd Date: 26 Mar 1998 10:25:04 -0500 (EST) To tie two recent threads together. Yes, Mujician has many CDs out, many of which have got good reviews. However if you're really in the mood for top-flight music try picking up "Bladik" (Cuneiform RUNE 92). It's a thrre tune completely improvised session from London in 1996. It features not only various members of Mujician --Paul Dunmall (ts), Keith Tippett (p), Paul Rogers (b) and Tony Levin(d) --that's this thread, but Elton Dean (as), who has played with Carla Bley and The Soft Machine, among others -- and Roswell Rudd (tmb) -- the Impulse reissue thread. It's definitely worth your currency, and as fine an example of Rudd's playing in a contemporary group setting as I you'll find. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, Julien Quint wrote: > Funny there's a discussion about Marc Ducret right now... I have mixed > feelings about him since yesterday. > > I don't know much of his stuff but what I had heard so far was very good -- > his playing in Caos Totale and also a few pieces I heard on the radio some > time ago of solo electric guitar where he would make a very interesting use > of distortion -- but yesterday night he was playing a show in my city for a > jazz festival as a leader and that was appalling. > > Ducret's sound on guitar was irritating at best, with lots of reverb (not a > good thing when you do start/stops), the compositions were pretty lazy and > very long, with lenghty stretches of improvisation that didn't go anywhere, > and his playing was so sufficient and guitar-hero-like. He was only > listening to himself playing, not to the other players (which is a pity > because Bruno Chevillon played upright bass, and *he* was very good, > unfortunately the star was Ducret.) I've seen more interesting heavy metal > shows; here there was no dynamics, and the only images that this music > brought were those of a big guy in tight pants playing guitar. Reminded me > of Nigel Tufnel's solo in Spinal Tap, except his was funnier. > > That was really a pity because as far as I know Ducret can be very good in > a group setting, or even solo, but as a leader... I was planning to record > the show and couldn't for some reason, but I really don't regret now. > > On the other hand I regret I couldn't record Keith Tippett and his band > Mugician (Paul Dunmall on sax, Paul Rogers on upright bass and Tony Levine > on drums) the day before either. Their performance was the total opposite > of Ducret's: it was group playing all along, new things happened > constantly, making the whole hour they played a magical moment. I guess the > name they chose for this formation is very representative of what they do. > > Tippett was playing prepared piano, and it was fun to see in the > reflections of the piano case what he was doing to get such sounds out of > his instrument. Paul Rogers was amazing on bass, inventive and > ressourceful. Paul Dunmall was impressive as well... As opposed to Ducret, > the improvisational moments were so tight that it was hard to tell what was > composed and what was improvised. Moreover, their dynamic range was very > large, and the music very evocative. Every time something new, fresh, > inventive was played, one musician would finish the phrase another would > have started. They played for one hour with no pause, and kept good things > coming all the time. Too bad there was no encore... > > Anyone has recommendation on Keith Tippett? Does this group Mugician have > any records out? I'd sure like to hear that. > > Sorry it was so long -- but I don't post often... > > * > Julien > > > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nils Jacobson <JACOBSON@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu> Subject: Re: Surrender to the Air Date: 26 Mar 1998 11:31:14 +0100 A fine record deserving attention. I agree about this. Doug McKay <mckay003@maroon.tc.umn.edu> writes: > Players: Marshall Allen, Trey Anastasio, Kofi Burbridge, Oteil Burbridge, > Damon R. Choice, Jon Fishman, Bob Gulloti, James Harvey, John Medeski, > Michael Ray, Marc Ribot. You will note the weird combination of Sun Ra alumni with Phish-heads. And wasn't Oteil in the Allman Brothers? > I imagine this would be called a variant of Free Jazz. It's very coherent > and seems almost composed. There are two pieces. ^^^^^^^^ I think the word is produced. I think this stuff was compiled out of a jam, by our good friend Trey. Tastefully done, but it's important I think to note how this differs from the open spontaneity of free jazz performance. > The listing goes like this: > 1.Intro 2.And Furthermore 3.We Deflate 4.And Furthermore 5.Down > 6.Intro 7.And Furthermore 8.And Furthermore 9.Out And as you can tell, these are completely artificial titles, for tracking purposes only, as far as I can tell. There are two pieces. These nine things are just there to confuse you. > The music is rather mellow, and even when it gets chaotic it isn't over the > top. Good drumming. No one instrument commands the performance. Yes, I would agree, but there are parts (for example, early on in the first piece) where the intensity level reaches a plateau at a point where most records don't dare to go. For Zornophiles, not a big deal. -Nils - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: John Howard <Howard@3di.com> Subject: Re: Turkish music Date: 26 Mar 1998 10:14:04 -0600 As someone who has played Balinese gamelan music, I can tell you that hardly any of it is improvised. In fact it is some of the most formal music around. Only a small portion of the melody lines are improvised and those are very strictly based on the melodies inherhent in the piece. john > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 08:25:40 -0800 > From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> > Subject: Re: Turkish music > > > Non-western improv in general -- tall order. Would you consider > > Nusrat improvisational? And there's a whole bunch of Japanese free > > improv listed at http://www2.gol.com/users/miyuki/index.html. > > > > If you're looking for non-western improvisation, go to a record store > section that features traditional non-western music [non-pop], close > your eyes and point at something. Improvisation is a basis for pretty > much every non-western style. In general, try Gnawa music from > Morocco, > Gamelan music, all Indian music [yes, Nusrat is highly > improvisational]. If you're looking for totally free improvisation > though, that is pretty much a 20th century western thing. > > As other people have mentioned, there is a lot of recordings combining > jazz players and non-western improvisation, or western players > improvising non-western music. May I mention Codona, Glen Velez, lots > of Don Cherry, and many of the recent Butch Morris conduction series. > > gg > > > - - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Re: Surrender to the Air Date: 26 Mar 1998 11:18:48 -0600 At 4:31 AM -0600 3/26/98, Nils Jacobson wrote: >A fine record deserving attention. I agree about this. > >Doug McKay <mckay003@maroon.tc.umn.edu> writes: >> Players: Marshall Allen, Trey Anastasio, Kofi Burbridge, Oteil Burbridge, >> Damon R. Choice, Jon Fishman, Bob Gulloti, James Harvey, John Medeski, >> Michael Ray, Marc Ribot. > >You will note the weird combination of Sun Ra alumni with Phish-heads. >And wasn't Oteil in the Allman Brothers? Oteil is/was in the Allman Brothers Band recently but before that he was in the Aquarium Rescue Unit which used to be headed by Col. Bruce Hampton (retired). Kofi is his brother. I only wonder who Bob Gulloti is... anyone know? I have to agree that this record is "A fine record deserving attention." Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Musique Concrete Date: 26 Mar 1998 09:39:08 -0800 At 4:59 PM 3/26/98, James Douglas Knox wrote: >On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, George Grella wrote: > >(snip) >> >> There is also a great CD on New World Records of film scores by Vladimir >> Ussachevsky. I would urge this one on anybody. >> >This sounds wild! Could you maybe post the titles of the films these >scores were for? The films were No Exit (1962), Orson Welles film of Sartre's play, and Line of Apogee (1967), by Lloyd Williams. This is a fantastic disc, parts of it very conventionally melodic and beautiful, parts very noisy. It is surprisingly similar to some of Aphex Twin's ambient works, only better composed and recorded about 30 years earlier. When I play this for friends who are into ambient stuff, they are generally amazed that it was recorded in the 60's. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Russian composers Date: 26 Mar 1998 09:39:11 -0800 At 8:33 AM 3/26/98, flamerik@best.ms.philips.com wrote: > >> (snip) >> > >> > There is also a great CD on New World Records of film scores by Vladimir >> > Ussachevsky. I would urge this one on anybody. >> > >> This sounds wild! Could you maybe post the titles of the films these >> scores were for? > >When I read this, I got an association with the Russian composer who did the >scores for Stalker and Solaris. His name is Edward Artemyev. I haven't heard >the scores, but can someone tell me whether these are any good, and whether >they are available? > >Frankco. I have only heard them as part of the films, but I'd love to have them on disc. These are amazing scores, to equally amazing films. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: record-recommendations needed Date: 26 Mar 1998 19:16:47 +0100 (MEZ) since this turns more and more into a zorn-list + a forum for non-mainstream music i want to ask for some record-recommendations : peter ablinger sofia gubaidulina ken nordine john adams jean jaques perrey louis andriessen jean-claude risset eden ahbez harry breuer les baxter thanx in advance BJOERN http://www.cityinfonetz.de/uni/homepage/bjoern.eichstaedt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar Subject: Horvitz Date: 26 Mar 1998 16:47:16 -0300 Anyone has recommendation on Wayne Horvitz's Pigpen "Daylight"? -Hugo - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Olivier Nguyen Van Tan" <onvt@micronet.fr> Subject: Re: Electronic Music Festivals in France & musique concrete Date: 26 Mar 1998 09:46:51 +0100 Hi, I would like to add this festival about "musique concrete" and mixed music In France at "les Instants Chavires" from March, 24th to 28th... Maybe, it is less "maintstream" than the two other you mention but it is also to celebrate the pioneering works of descendants of Pierre Schaeffer... (if maintsream can be applied to these musics ;) ) (it 's right now in Paris !!) ======================================================== Symphonie de bruits Musiques mixtes et concrΦtes Concerts dans le cadre de " La Musique concrΦte jubile α Montreuil " En collaboration avec le Centre Pierre Schaeffer (Montreuil) ======================================================== More details on : Le Site Web du Fennec pour les musiques creatives http://www.fennec.digiweb.fr (in French, sorry) Olivier, fennec parmi les Fennecs ps: why French have always been extremely supportive of this kind of music ? maybe because of the IRCAM and Pierre Boulez in the 70░s and some funds by the French government... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: keith jarrett-lou harrison Date: 26 Mar 1998 11:56:54 -0800 References: <E0yIFbP-000064-00@lists.xmission.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > i`m looking for information on Keith Jarrett`s "Piano Concerto / Suite > for Violin, Piano and Small Orchestra, (Lou Harrison)". I saw this CD in > the "Tower", but because of their new "yellow label" policy i can listen > to it only if i`m buying the CD, so before i do it, i`d like to know if > it`s worth buying? > any opinion will be appreciated. > Coincidentally, I was listening to this CD last night. If you like Lou Harrison, this is an excellent recording. If you're not familiar with his music, it is highly, even beautifully melodic, highly rhythmic, and is great part is based on Asian, especially Indonesian, scales and sonorities. Harrison also is interested in alternate tunings, especially Even-Tempered tuning, and the pieces on this CD use that. You can clearly hear the contrast in the Piano Concerto between the orchestra, Well-Tempered, and the piano, Even-Tempered. Go for it! gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: FUNKADELlC <FUNKADELlC@aol.com> Subject: ..... Date: 26 Mar 1998 16:27:57 EST how the hell do i contact john zorn? -cory sklar - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re: Surrender to the Air Date: 26 Mar 1998 16:53:03 -0500 Dan Hewins wrote: > Oteil is/was in the Allman Brothers Band recently but before that he was in > the Aquarium Rescue Unit which used to be headed by Col. Bruce Hampton > (retired). Kofi is his brother. I only wonder who Bob Gulloti is... > anyone know? Bob was a member of the grand daddy of improvised jazz in Boston, a band called The Fringe. It was a Sax, Bass and Drums trio, but they had a sonic pallette that went way beyond the instrumentation. They had been around for quite a few years when I first heard them around 1977, If I remember though, Bob left before they did most(all?) of their records. Rich - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: dtapia@unoco.edu (Douglas Tapia) Subject: Re: ..... Date: 26 Mar 1998 15:00:07 -0700 >how the hell do i contact john zorn? >-cory sklar > >- Take the blood of a virgin goat. With that blood, draw a pentagram on the ground. Place a candle at each point. . . OH, you said John ZORN. My mistake. .-} - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: record-recommendations needed Date: 26 Mar 1998 14:32:15 -0800 On Thu, 26 Mar 1998 19:16:47 +0100 (MEZ) BJOERN wrote: > > since this turns more and more into a zorn-list + a forum for > non-mainstream music i want to ask for some record-recommendations : > > peter ablinger > sofia gubaidulina She has an amazing record on Naxos. Most of the pieces are written for some kind of russian accordeon and strings. The atmosphere on most of the pieces is particularly intense and ominous. It was my first exposure to her work and is still my favorite record with her compositions (and it is really cheap). > ken nordine > john adams SHAKER LOOPS is my favorite composition by him. He was initially very influenced by the minimalists (Glass, Reich, etc), and SHAKER LOOPS comes from that period. In the past ten years, he has shown himself as an amazing orchestrator, but nothing from him has really excited me in a while. > jean jaques perrey > louis andriessen ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I have failed to find anything by him more than just interesting. In fact, I don't remember anybody being really crazy of Andriessen's music. By saying that I am sure somebody will stand up and openly disagree :-). > jean-claude risset ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Risset has not a lot on records, if I remember well. He has been more involved with research and management than with writing music :-). He has a record on GRM that sounded to me more like a demo record to show that his research on sound synthesis was working. Great music artifacts also (such as sounds that seem to go up in pitch when in fact they don't). To me, not very different from the demo records in the late '50s to show stereo effects :-). Risset has always shown more interest in the way of producing sounds that composing, I believe. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: kristallnacht Date: 26 Mar 1998 18:15:27 -0500 (EST) On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, Aaron Chee-Kean Chua wrote: > how seriously should i take the warning in the > liner notes re: hearing damage/ loss? I don't know much about hearing loss. I can tell you that I've found the high frequencies on this track extremely painful on some stereos, but not on others. (Or maybe it's just that my ears have now been damaged enough that it's no longer painful.) My completely unreliable advice would be to try listening to it. If it hurts, stop and try again through earplugs. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@UVic.CA> Subject: (re)... Date: 26 Mar 1998 17:32:45 -0800 (PST) To get John's phone number: Have your ex-girlfriend get a summer scholarship to study piano in Austria, have her call when she hears of a live performance of a new work by Zorn at a local music festival - performed by the NY players and conducted by Zorn himself - convince her that, even though she has no interest in music written after the 1830's, she should get tickets and go to the show - have her go to the show, then call you the next day to tell you she met Zorn after the show and that he was very friendly and talkative, that he autographed a programme for you, and gave her a page of his score with his personal number in NYC...or at least that's how I did it! Cappy D'Angelo Student at Law - Intellectual Property Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion Victoria, B.C., CANADA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: HSpaceboy <HSpaceboy@aol.com> Subject: Free Jazz/General noise Date: 26 Mar 1998 22:29:09 EST I've recently started a free jazz/noise ensemble. I play trombone and mellophone in the group. I use distortion pedals on both horns and as such when I would go into music stores to try out and purchase pedals invariably someone would mention Zorn. Up until about a week ago I had never listened to any John Zorn. I picked up Locus Solus and Nani Nani, I was blown away. Zorn is the only person I've ever listened to that does anything even close to what I am doing with my own group. Primarily I listen to noise, like Merzbow. Anyway enough of that. Does anyone have any ideas as to what more I could do to my trombone to get more interesting sounds out of it? Also I am fortunate enough to be playing Ives Variations on America in my high school symphonic band, it's such a great piece. -mark - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: record-recommendations needed Date: 27 Mar 1998 17:06:11 +1100 (EST) On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, BJOERN wrote: > since this turns more and more into a zorn-list + a forum for > non-mainstream music i want to ask for some record-recommendations : > > peter ablinger > sofia gubaidulina > ken nordine This guy's work is entirely singular and *amazing*! He performs on Wilner's Disney tribute with Frisell and Horvitz: also on the new Poe tribute. There's a fine compilation CD, think its called 'Best of Word Jazz Vol. 1'. Still doing new work, but dunno if its too easy to find. > john adams > jean jaques perrey This guy is just so incredibly inventive: excellent because, unlike many experimental musicians, he's quite explicit about his work being dedicated to the pursuit of fun and some kinda pleasure principle. And it is! Just *freakin'* great. Get 'The Best of Perrey and Kingsley' (both of their collaborative recs on one CD) and the 'Moog Indigo' re-issue. Haven't heard any of his French LPs, but a friend is over there chasing some up for me right now (I'll let you know how he's fared). Must be getting on, but still working: most recent release is a collaboration with David Chazram called 'Eclectricity'. > louis andriessen > jean-claude risset > eden ahbez Think he only did one record, "Eden's Island", recently re-issued on disc. Totally unique proto-beat stuff from a genuine American original. > harry breuer Don't know if any of this guy's work has been re-issued on disc (yet). But he did some collaborative work with Perrey that's probably great. Oh, and did I mention, I just discovered that Perrey worked with *Angelo Badalamenti* in the '60s (yep: that's his anglicized credit, Andy Badale, you can read on those old LP sleeves!) > les baxter Look for the Tikitunes CD: Tak Shindo's "M'ganga" and Baxter's "African Jazz" - and set the controls for the heart of the darkness... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: kristallnacht Date: 27 Mar 1998 17:11:59 +1100 (EST) On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, Christopher Hamilton wrote: > On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, Aaron Chee-Kean Chua wrote: > > > how seriously should i take the warning in the > > liner notes re: hearing damage/ loss? > > I don't know much about hearing loss. I can tell you that I've found the > high frequencies on this track extremely painful on some stereos, but not > on others. (Or maybe it's just that my ears have now been damaged enough > that it's no longer painful.) My completely unreliable advice would be to > try listening to it. If it hurts, stop and try again through earplugs. > Yes: what Chris says makes sense. If there are sounds happening at the extreme of the human hearing range, then many stereos (and/or headphones) won't be able to reproduce those sounds. But - so far as I know - amplitude (volume) and exposure are the real causes of hearing damage, rather than the frequency per se. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: Russian composers Date: 27 Mar 1998 17:14:14 +1100 (EST) On Thu, 26 Mar 1998 flamerik@best.ms.philips.com wrote: > > > There is also a great CD on New World Records of film scores by Vladimir > > > Ussachevsky. I would urge this one on anybody. > > > > > This sounds wild! Could you maybe post the titles of the films these > > scores were for? > > When I read this, I got an association with the Russian composer who did the > scores for Stalker and Solaris. His name is Edward Artemyev. I haven't heard > the scores, but can someone tell me whether these are any good, and whether > they are available? > This came up earlier this year. The scores are amazing in the context of the films: don't imagine that coming off of a disc would change that. I think the CD release was by EVA (??). Anyways, someone out there knows...> - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: Electronic Music Festivals in France & musique concrete Date: 27 Mar 1998 17:27:05 +1100 (EST) On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, Olivier Nguyen Van Tan wrote: (snip) >=20 > ps: why French have always been extremely supportive of this kind of musi= c ? > maybe because of the IRCAM and Pierre Boulez in the 70=B0s and some funds= by > the French government... >=20 I think its also due the fact that musique concrete was, so far as I know, essentially a french discovery - Pierres Schaeffer and Henri working at the national broadcaster in the late 40s and beyond... Also, that the governments of continental Europe seem quite jealous about protecting and promoting their cultural heritage: France, maybe more so than other nations. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: gsg@juno.com (Geoff S Gersh) Subject: re: freejazz/general noise Date: 27 Mar 1998 03:58:36 EST check out: Jim Staley Stuart Dempster two very fine t-bone players......Dempster has a book out thats pretty much all about extended trombone techniques G. Gersh _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dgasque <Dgasque@aol.com> Subject: Re: L.CRUSH/EPHRON/L. TRIBE Date: 27 Mar 1998 04:09:59 EST In a message dated 98-03-25 07:44:30 EST, you (hulinare@bemberg.com.ar) wrote: << Is there any more "heavy on the funk" out there? >> If it hasn't been mentioned, ye should look for anything by Defunkt. Crazy stuff... =dgasque= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: JPatton/JZorn Date: 27 Mar 1998 23:15:12 +1100 Is there anywhere on the net to hear samples from "Minor Swing"? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re[333]: record-recommendations needed Date: 27 Mar 1998 13:26:54 UT > ken nordine <<This guy's work is entirely singular and *amazing*! He performs on Wilner's Disney tribute with Frisell and Horvitz: also on the new Poe tribute. There's a fine compilation CD, think its called 'Best of Word Jazz Vol. 1'. Still doing new work, but dunno if its too easy to find. >> His "Colors" album was re-released by Asphodel. And there was that Best of Word Jazz, which asctually has some really cool stories. It's all coming back to me now... But the best were his Word Jazz radio shows. Absolute classics. I have some old tapes somewhere... > jean-claude risset If I'm not mistaken he has at least one piece on that Wergo Computer Music Currents disc set I mentioned. They're for sale at Forced Exposure. Get 'em all, except maybe 11. Anyway, there's descriptions of the artists and pieces, so you can see which he's on. If it's 1, 4 or 6, it's a super-fantastic disc and you can't go wrong. > les baxter <<Look for the Tikitunes CD: Tak Shindo's "M'ganga" and Baxter's "African Jazz" - and set the controls for the heart of the darkness... >> Also, Capitol just released a 2CD comp of his stuff, which I've been told is pretty representative. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel) Subject: Re: Peter Gunn Date: 27 Mar 1998 16:06:03 +0100 > Date: Wed, 25 Mar 1998 17:06:32 +1100 (EST) > From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> > Subject: Re: (MANCINI'S) PETER GUNN > > On Tue, 24 Mar 1998 hulinare@bemberg.com.ar wrote: > > > Would anyone tell me about any groups or ensembles that played Henry > > Mancini's Peter Gunn? > > I listened to it last night in a local TV Show and it was great; rather > > fast, very well played, and there were reeds. There's a version on the Blues Brothers soundtrack album, though I don't know whether it's the Mancini original or if it's played by the Blues Brothers band. - Chris. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: freejazz/general noise Date: 27 Mar 1998 08:19:45 -0800 On Fri, 27 Mar 1998 03:58:36 EST Geoff S Gersh wrote: > > check out: > > Jim Staley > > Stuart Dempster > > two very fine t-bone players......Dempster has a book out thats pretty > much all about extended trombone techniques Also add GENTLE HARM OF BOURGEOISIE by Paul Rutherford, recently reissued on Emanem. A classic of improv with extended techniques. Berio wrote one of his SEQUENZIA for trombone. Often cited as a model of what can be done to extend the way of playing this instrument. Vinko Globokar is a contemporary composer who happens also to be a trombone player. He has many compositions for brass, and specially trombone. I would like to mention Nicolas Collins, but his usage of the "trombone propelled electronics" has little to do with trombone playing :-). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Musique Concete Date: 27 Mar 1998 08:23:13 -0800 Here are some details on the CDs I mentioned before; "Electro--Acoustic Music: Classics" Neuma 450-74 Varese: "Poeme Electronique" Babbitt: "Phonemena," "Philomel" Reynolds: "Transfigured Wind IV" Xenaxis: "Mycenae-Alpha" As far as I know, this is the only CD with the recording of Poeme Electronique currently in print. "Vladimir Ussachevsky, Film Music" NWW 80389-2 Suite from "No Exit" - film by Orson Welles from Sartre Line of Apogee - experimental film by Lloyd Williams I don't have it, but my CRi catalogue lists CD 611, American Master: Electronic, which has pieces by Ussachevsky and Otto Luening. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: Musique Concete Date: 27 Mar 1998 11:38:40 -0500 (EST) On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, George Grella wrote: > "Electro--Acoustic Music: Classics" > Neuma 450-74 > > As far as I know, this is the only CD with the recording of Poeme > Electronique currently in print. one-way records, a sony-related spin-off, recently issued _the music of edgard varese_ on cd, which features "poeme electronique". evidently this is only one album of the cbs (or columbia?) double lp of the same name. b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Turkish Music Date: 27 Mar 1998 09:03:29 -0800 > As someone who has played Balinese gamelan music, I can tell you that > hardly any of it is improvised. In fact it is some of the most formal > music around. Only a small portion of the melody lines are improvised > and those are very strictly based on the melodies inherhent in the > piece. john > I think this opens up some interesting territory on the state and place of music in the West and elsewhere. Improvisation in the West, outside of jazz, has become almost fetishized in a way, certainly made up of cult-like practioners and cult-like followers [and I don't mean that in a perjorative way, I would number myself a member]. In other parts of the world, improvisation is such a basic part of the music, of the practice of the music, that it is an implicit part of a musician's training. This used to be the case in the West, where musicians who couldn't improvise idiomatically were not considered musicians. It's not the amount of improvisation that matters, IMO, but the nature of it. I think what John writes complements, not contradicts, the improvisational basis of Gamelan, and other, music. While there may not have been a lot of improvisation in the playing he was involved in [and there are modern pieces that do involve improvisation in performance], there was improvisation in the gestation of the piece and, if it was traditional, there was some improvisation involved in the aural passing along of the music. And the piece called for idiomatic improvisation, even just a small bit, a lot like baroque era performance of Western music, or Flamenco. I can't think of any non-Western music, off the top of my head, that does not involved the training of its musicians in idiomatic improvisation as a basis, not a specialty, of their playing. Which makes me think of Derek Bailey's book, "Improvisation," which is a great introduction to many kinds of improvisation around the world. Anybody else here know it? gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: record-recommendations needed Date: 27 Mar 1998 09:20:54 -0800 I just started subscribing to this list, and I am so thankful for the fresh perspective on things in here. I've been writing in a classical list how stodgy, snobby audiences are killing American symphonies, and that people who come from listening to more rock based music are interested in hearing the living repertoire. Reading everyone here confirms that for me. > since this turns more and more into a zorn-list + a forum for > non-mainstream music i want to ask for some record-recommendations : > I like reading this "non-mainstream" label because it has several layers of irony. Some of the composers I can comment on here are definitely in the grand mainstream of Western classical music, they are living and working today at the point the stream had reached from its long progression through the centuries. But people who claim to love classical music often recject this music for, yes, being non-mainstream. Bizarre! Anyway: sofia gubaidulina john adams louis andriessen Late 20th century composers. Someone mentioned the Naxos recording for Gubaidulina, and I concur. A super-bargain and good performances of her work. A lot of people lump her into the Easter Mystic mold, and there certainly is a liturgical quality to a lot of her work, but it's also far freer in form and tonality than Part and the popular works of Gorecki. John Adams is maybe the leading American composer right now. He comes out of the Minimalist style, but was never as strict with it as Glass or Reich; he acknowledges an artistic debt to Mahler and Sibelius, the former for his Romantic aesthetic and the latter for his great, tonal resonance. "Shaker Loops" is probably his most recorded work, and his "Violin Concerto" won the Gravemeyer prize, which is the Nobel of music, but his best piece is probably "Harmonielehre," which is now part of the standard orchestral repertoire. It is literally stunning. There's a great recording on ECM, but a good and more generous one on EMI, which adds three shorter works. If you picked up that and a Nonesuch CD with "Chamber Symphony" and "Grand Pianola Music," you'd have a great and deep survey of his work. Louis Andriessen is a Duthc Minimalist composer. He has a very political aesthetic and can be very witty in his music. He's been a big infnce on the Bang on a Can founders. His most famous piece is "De Staat," which is on CD, and there's also a good CD available with two pieces, "De Stijd," and "M is for Man, Music and Mozart," which he wrote for a short Peter Greenaway film. gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Korean Music Date: 27 Mar 1998 09:49:29 -0500 Listening last evening to the (under-mentioned) album 'SXL-Into the Outlands' and having recently listened to the fine record by SamulNori, 'Record of Changes', I got to wondering about other music by Korean musicians those on this list might recommend. I'm familiar with the work of Sang Won Park, Jin Hi Kim and (somewhat) with Kang Tae Hwan (his duet with that Mongolian singer whose name I can never accurately spell, and with which I wasn't overly impressed). I'm sure, however, there's a lot I'm missing, both that which is ethnically Korean and jazz or improv based. Any thoughts? PS. Still haven't heard any yeas or nays on the new Lucas CD on Tzasdik. C'mon, _somebody_ must've gotten this by now! Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re[2]: trombone (was: freejazz/general noise ) Date: 27 Mar 1998 17:19:13 UT Doesn't Ellery Eskilin play a trombone? At least on the Barondown stuff, I thought. Not exactly Noisy, or extended technique, but good stuff nonetheless. Peter ____________________Reply Separator____________________ Author: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com On Fri, 27 Mar 1998 03:58:36 EST Geoff S Gersh wrote: > > check out: > > Jim Staley > > Stuart Dempster > > two very fine t-bone players......Dempster has a book out thats pretty > much all about extended trombone techniques Also add GENTLE HARM OF BOURGEOISIE by Paul Rutherford, recently reissued on Emanem. A classic of improv with extended techniques. Berio wrote one of his SEQUENZIA for trombone. Often cited as a model of what can be done to extend the way of playing this instrument. Vinko Globokar is a contemporary composer who happens also to be a trombone player. He has many compositions for brass, and specially trombone. I would like to mention Nicolas Collins, but his usage of the "trombone propelled electronics" has little to do with trombone playing :-). Patrice. - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Richard E Ladew <rladew@hopper.unh.edu> Subject: WUNH DURHAM 91.3fm jazz/modern reports Mar 30 1998 Date: 27 Mar 1998 12:45:45 -0500 (EST) Greetings to All! Sorry for the down time...Just got back from a trip to the West Coast. WUNH DURHAM 91.3fm Jazz/Modern/Improvised report Airplay is based on PCP House of Coffee (2 hrs Tues 10-midnight), Gen Programming (aPPROX 2-3 HRS), AND jAZZ (1-2 HRS) (Artist) (Title) (Label) 1. David Slusser Delight at the end of the tunnel Tzadik 2.Marty Ehrlich and Ben Goldberg Light at the end of the tunnel Songlines 3.Buckethead Colma Cyberoctave 4.Marc Ducret Un Certain Malaise Screwgun 5.Jon Lindberg Ensemble Bounce Black Saint 6.Malachi Thompson 47th St Delmark 7.William Hooker Great Sunset Warm-O-Brisk 8.Robert Mazurek Playground Delmark 9.John Zorn Filmworks VIII Tzadik 10.Arto Lindsay Noon Chill Bar/None All mailings/inquiries/etc: WUNH Durham / PCP House of Coffee Rich Ladew: Jazz/Modern director Memorial Union Building (MUB) UNH Durham New Hampshire 03824 (603) 862 2087 (603) 659 1732 rladew@hopper.unh.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Korean Music Date: 27 Mar 1998 12:44:26 -0500 >>>>> "brian" == brian olewnick <brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu> writes: brian> Listening last evening to the (under-mentioned) album brian> 'SXL-Into the Outlands' and having recently listened to the brian> fine record by SamulNori, 'Record of Changes', I got to brian> wondering about other music by Korean musicians those on brian> this list might recommend. brian> I'm familiar with the work of Sang Won Park, Jin Hi brian> Kim and (somewhat) with Kang Tae Hwan (his duet with that brian> Mongolian singer whose name I can never accurately spell, brian> and with which I wasn't overly impressed). I'm sure, brian> however, there's a lot I'm missing, both that which is brian> ethnically Korean and jazz or improv based. brian> Any thoughts? SamulNori has a cd on ECM with a jazz group Red Sun, called Then Comes the White Tiger, which is very nice, more subtle than SXL. More info at http://ecmrecords.com/ecm/recordings/1499.html. Then there's always Ground Zero Consume Red, which features Kim Suk Chul on hojok... --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: Korean Music Date: 27 Mar 1998 13:07:03 -0500 ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: <cdeupree@interagp.com > at SMTP-for-MSSM Then there's always Ground Zero Consume Red, which features Kim Suk Chul on hojok... Yeah, forgot about him; odd since 'Consume Red' was my favorite release of last year. I looked around a bit for other records by/with him but had no luck. If anyone knows of any, I'd appreciate it. Brian Olewnick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Olivier Nguyen Van Tan" <onvt@micronet.fr> Subject: Re: Marc Ducret Date: 27 Mar 1998 14:26:27 +0100 Julien, I had the chance to see Marc Ducret several times in a lot of project, the past two years. And obviously, this Ducret Trio was the worst for me also (at Sons d'hiver). I really hate this drummer (Echampard) and Ducret just looks like a poor guitar heroe who would have forget improvisation and feeling... It all boils down to playing a lot of notes all over his guitar... Too bad for us ! The best gig I saw of Ducret was a Details-like gig : solo acoustic guitar that was really great. With a lot a emotion, without guitar-freak gizmo. I just hope Ducret will go back to improvisation or/and avant-garde because hard-jazz-rock sucks !! ;) Olivier, fennec parmi les Fennecs Le Site Web du Fennec pour les musiques creatives http://www.fennec.digiweb.fr ps: nevertheless, Details is a GREAT album. -----Message d'origine----- >Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 14:31:18 +0100 >From: Julien Quint <julien.quint@xrce.xerox.com> >Subject: Marc Ducret (then Keith Tippett) > >Funny there's a discussion about Marc Ducret right now... I have mixed >feelings about him since yesterday. > >I don't know much of his stuff but what I had heard so far was very good -- >his playing in Caos Totale and also a few pieces I heard on the radio some >time ago of solo electric guitar where he would make a very interesting use >of distortion -- but yesterday night he was playing a show in my city for a >jazz festival as a leader and that was appalling. > >Ducret's sound on guitar was irritating at best, with lots of reverb (not a >good thing when you do start/stops), the compositions were pretty lazy and >very long, with lenghty stretches of improvisation that didn't go anywhere, >and his playing was so sufficient and guitar-hero-like. He was only >listening to himself playing, not to the other players (which is a pity >because Bruno Chevillon played upright bass, and *he* was very good, >unfortunately the star was Ducret.) I've seen more interesting heavy metal >shows; here there was no dynamics, and the only images that this music >brought were those of a big guy in tight pants playing guitar. Reminded me >of Nigel Tufnel's solo in Spinal Tap, except his was funnier. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Re[2]: trombone (was: freejazz/general noise ) Date: 27 Mar 1998 12:39:16 -0600 No, Ellery Eskelin plays tenor sax. It's Steve Swell who is playing trombone on the Barondown stuff. Which, by the way, is a pretty good disc (Raised Pleasure Dot)... Dan >Doesn't Ellery Eskilin play a trombone? At least on the Barondown stuff, I >thought. Not exactly Noisy, or extended technique, but good stuff >nonetheless. > >Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Toby Dodds <toby@seanet.com> Subject: RE: HORVITZ Date: 27 Mar 1998 10:48:24 -0800 (PST) >Anyone has recommendation on Wayne Horvitz's Pigpen "Daylight"? > >- -Hugo I'm certainly no music critic, but in my oppinion every Pigpen release is essential listening. This recording from 97 will definiately be the last for a while and in many way is the best yet. It is without a doubt the best "sounding" release from the band. It also is the best performance in the studio by these guys. Briggan Krauss has certainly only gotten stronger since deserting ;) the NW for NYC in 94. The rest of the band shines as well, Horvitz and Krauss have a duet, and the revisited version of V as in Victim is a much improved interpretation of this Horvitz classic. I only wish Fred Chalenor was louder on bass. He is incredible and a fine soloist as well. Mike Stone takes more of a thrash approach to drumming than say Andy Roth from ZM and as a result this rhythms tend to be more frantic, perhaps this is why Pigpen is closer in spirit to Naked City than Zony Mash, which is more of a groove... Definiately don't miss out on Daylight by Pigpen!! Toby - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar Subject: TROMBONE Date: 27 Mar 1998 15:47:31 -0300 Ellery Eskelin played tenor sax and Steve Swell trombone on Barondown. - Hugo, from Argentina - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: magnum-jihad@juno.com (Nathan M Earixson) Subject: Re: Turkish Music Date: 27 Mar 1998 13:17:23 -0600 On Fri, 27 Mar 1998 09:03:29 -0800 George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> writes: >Which makes me think of Derek Bailey's book, "Improvisation," which is >a >great introduction to many kinds of improvisation around the world. >Anybody else here know it? > I just read it last month, incedentally. I consider it necessary reading for anyone interested in Improvised music. _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matthew Moran <moran@staff.juno.com> Subject: contact Date: 27 Mar 1998 14:47:49 -0500 (EST) > ------------------------------ > > Date: Thu, 26 Mar 1998 16:27:57 EST > From: FUNKADELlC <FUNKADELlC@aol.com> > Subject: ..... > > how the hell do i contact john zorn? > - -cory sklar Practice! um, -matt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: QUESOMALO <QUESOMALO@aol.com> Subject: Re: Trombone Date: 27 Mar 1998 18:06:52 EST You should check out the free improv "Yankees" with Zorn (sax, game calls), George Lewis (trombone), and Derek Bailey (guitar). I don't know much about trombones so I can't say much about what Lewis is doing to make noises, but I find his playing and the cd to be very entertaining. Does anyone know if this is game piece based on baseball? How does this compare to the significantly more expensive "Harras"? I also really like Robin Eubank's trombone playing on Steve Coleman's "Rhythm People" (the track Blues Shifting especially) and Bobby Previte's Empty Suits (I believe that he plays with a wah pedal on this one). It isn't really noise or free jazz, just some nice 'boning -nick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Silent Watcher" <silent_watcher@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Trombone Date: 27 Mar 1998 18:25:49 PST > You should check out the free improv "Yankees" with Zorn (sax, >game calls), George Lewis (trombone), and Derek Bailey (guitar). I'll second that, it is a great CD. > Does anyone know if this is game piece based on baseball? How >does this compare to the significantly more expensive "Harras"? Not a game piece from what I recall. Just a series of improvs revolving around baseball. I haven't heard 'Harras' yet, so I can't comment on that! SW For Sale/Want List and Laswell discography at http://www.geocities.com/SunsetStrip/Underground/7093 ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen drury <stevedrury@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: feldman Date: 27 Mar 1998 22:56:15 -0500 On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, DR S WILKIE wrote: >> can someone recommend one of the morton feldman cds of the later >> works? e.g. "string quartet", "trio" "clarinet and string quartet" >> etc. i just want one cd by him: are they all pretty similar or does >> one in particular stand out? thanks... > > I agree wholeheartedly with Joe Zitt on Feldman's PIANO AND STRING QUARTET, and also the ...AND ORCHESTRA collection. But how did Joe miss "FOR MORTON FELDMAN" on HatArt? Extraordinary piece; strongest impact of any Feldman I know. >ELEKTRA NONESUCH PIANO AND STRING QUARTET >1993 7559-79320-2 > >CPO ... AND ORCHESTRA >1997 CPO 999 483-2 > 1972 Cello and Orchestra > 1975 Piano and Orchestra > 1976 Oboe and Orchestra > 1978 Flute and Orchestra > >... the CPO bing a double-disc available very inexpensively. > >These discography listing are from the excellent resource at >http://www.cnvill.demon.co.uk/mfcds.htm > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@uvic.ca> Subject: Masada Date: 27 Mar 1998 20:39:25 -0800 Just picked up the Painkiller boxed set (and Filmworks VIII). Good thing I didn't pay the mail-order price, as it would have cost almost $100 with exchange/shipping/duty/gst. It only cost me $42.49 (less than $30 US) at A & B (western Canada's answer to Tower). I asked if they could order Masada 9, but they couldn't find Masada in their Koch catalogue. Who's the Canadian distributor for DIW? cappyd - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com> Subject: Re: Masada Date: 27 Mar 1998 20:57:44 -0800 (PST) On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, Cappy D'Angelo wrote: > Just picked up the Painkiller boxed set (and Filmworks VIII). Good > thing I didn't pay the mail-order price, as it would have cost almost > $100 with exchange/shipping/duty/gst. It only cost me $42.49 (less than for those interested, Scratch Records (Canada) is selling the Painkiller box set for US$30. this is according to their US dollar mailorder pricelist. i'm not sure what their usual postage rates are, but i'm sure it would still cost less than the US$43 that Amoeba is asking here in SF. hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Chavez <pmchavez@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Musique Concrete Date: 27 Mar 1998 23:26:54 -0600 Since we're on the subject, I saw a film about two months ago which featured some incredible uses of experimental soundwork. When the movie was over, I watched the credits to see who composed the music or if there was a soundtrack available and there was no mention of either. It was a Canadian film about a guy who had lost his reasoning abilities and found that the only way to think clearly was to stick a sharp object (like a pocketknife) under his fingernails. The film heavily featured short-wave static as background. Overall, it reminded me of Zorn's Absinthe. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? If the movie comes back around, I'm going to sit in the theatre with a walkman and record it. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Re: ducret Date: 28 Mar 1998 01:16:14 -0500 Alan E Kayser wrote: > Jason Caulfield Bivins wrote: > > > I'm > > looking forward to the solo discs. > > Don't yet have the electric solo, but found the acoustic to be a > disappointment. Sorry Marc, not this time. The electric is similar but more powerful and interesting on the whole. (Jason, if you hurry up and ask maybe Rusch will assign it to you...) Better than just about anything I've heard is the Ducret/Previte Duo CD "In the Grass," coming soon on Enja and already out in Europe I believe. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Adams [was Re: record-recommendations needed] Date: 28 Mar 1998 02:08:35 -0500 George Grella wrote: > If you picked up [Adams's "Harmonielehre"] and a Nonesuch CD with > "Chamber Symphony" and "Grand Pianola Music," you'd have a great and > deep survey of his work. For the rank beginner I still think the Nonesuch disc that begins with "The Chairman Dances" and ends with "Christian Zeal and Activity" is quite hard to beat. The latter piece revisits his roots (it's a remake of an earlier recording on Eno's Obscure label in probably the only instance of John Adams and Derek Bailey coexisting on the same LP), while the former is a great little orchestral outtake (not excerpt) from his opera "Nixon in China" and to me is the apotheosis of Adams's minimalist period. Even though "Harmonielehre" is without question the weightier and more important work, I just love the fact that "The Chairman Dances" can encompass both the motoric rhythms of all of his earlier music, the neo-Romanticism that has increasingly taken over his work since then, and a sense of kitschy melodicism as well -- it *is* a foxtrot, after all. There's a French horn section line late in the piece that's so gorgeous, it's practically straight out of "Der Rosenkavalier." Or, even more likely, Lerner and Loewe's "Gigi." I haven't heard much to make me as gaga since then. The Violin Concerto, for instance, I find self-conciously "difficult" and not very compelling (and this as a fan of not just the Berg concerto but the Schoenberg as well). My favorite Adams is the point where he was perfectly balanced as the serious modern composer not afraid of a cheap laugh ("Grand Pianola Music") and the minimalist not afraid of a conventional melodicism creeping in from time to time. The recent "El Dorado" shows that he still has it in him. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: JonAbbey2 <JonAbbey2@aol.com> Subject: Re: feldman Date: 28 Mar 1998 02:44:02 EST In a message dated 3/27/98 10:57:39 PM, stevedrury@mindspring.com wrote: <<I agree wholeheartedly with Joe Zitt on Feldman's PIANO AND STRING QUARTET, and also the ...AND ORCHESTRA collection. But how did Joe miss "FOR MORTON FELDMAN" on HatArt? Extraordinary piece; strongest impact of any Feldman I know. >> OK, now maybe I'm completely off base here, but I don't think there is a Feldman piece called FOR MORTON FELDMAN. My guess is that Mr. Drury is referring to FOR BUNITA MARCUS which is also one of my favorite Feldman discs. My other fave, which I haven't seen mentioned yet, is PATTERNS IN A CHROMATIC FIELD, also on Hat Art. The musicians are Marianne Schroeder on piano and Rohan De Saram (from the Arditti Quartet and AMM"s The Inexhaustible Document) on violincello. This is the Feldman disc I play the most from my collection. Jon - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: improv@peak.org (Dave Trenkel) Subject: Re: Musique Concrete Date: 28 Mar 1998 09:39:32 -0800 At 11:26 PM 3/27/98, Paul Chavez wrote: >Since we're on the subject, I saw a film about two months ago which >featured some incredible uses of experimental soundwork. When the movie >was over, I watched the credits to see who composed the music or if >there was a soundtrack available and there was no mention of either. It >was a Canadian film about a guy who had lost his reasoning abilities and >found that the only way to think clearly was to stick a sharp object >(like a pocketknife) under his fingernails. The film heavily featured >short-wave static as background. Overall, it reminded me of Zorn's >Absinthe. > >Does anyone know what I'm talking about? > >If the movie comes back around, I'm going to sit in the theatre with a >walkman and record it. This sounds a lot like "Clean, Shaven". I was really impressed with the music for this film also. The music was done by Hahn Rowe (not sure about the spelling),a New Yok guitarist/violinist who was once a member of Hugo Largo. I would really love to find a recording of this score. ________________________________________________________ Dave Trenkel : improv@peak.org : www.peak.org/~improv/ "...there will come a day when you won't have to use gasoline. You'd simply take a cassette and put it in your car, let it run. You'd have to have the proper type of music. Like you take two sticks, put 'em together, make fire. You take some notes and rub 'em together - dum, dum, dum, dum - fire, cosmic fire." -Sun Ra ________________________________________________________ - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrick Stockton" <sheepherder@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Re: Horvitz Date: 28 Mar 1998 11:21:19 -0800 someone wrote... > Anyone has recommendation on Wayne Horvitz's Pigpen "Daylight"? > > -Hugo yes..... my recommendation is to buy it immediately. not quite as interesting a "V as in Victim" but a wonderful new release. patrick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: leon lee <llee15@ccsf.cc.ca.us> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #277 Date: 29 Mar 1998 00:31:02 -0800 (PST) I only wonder who Bob Gulloti is... anyone know? Bob Gulloti is in a trio called The Fringe. I know they have quite a few records out though i only have The Return of the Neanderthal Man. I think they are from Boston. The Return... is a great record of a live show and they burn it up. I use to sit around listening to this when there wasn't good shows (when i didn't have access). ...well that and Yusef Lateef's Live @ Pep's. another concert going experience at home. (that's another story though) leon --- Paid Advertisement --- "...we could attempt the Masonna cover of Stars and Stripes Forever... i'll bring my mic with the short-circuit." david arnold -- member since 1998 SCMEP ccsf - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: sasanborn@micron.com Subject: Sounds Wanted Date: 29 Mar 1998 03:02:09 -0700 MST I am interested in hearing the following music, if you have any of these things and could dub me a copy in trade for something I have, that would be excellent. Email me to check out my trade list. Cheers, Steve email to sasanborn@micron.com in no particular order: Atman - Sounddreams High Rise - Disallow MX-80 - anything Mainliner - Mellow Out Thela - Argentina Grobbschnitt - anything Ornette Coleman - Chappaqua Suite Guru Guru - anything Fairport Convention - A Chronicle of Sorts Dr. Nerve - anything The Brain - Dimensions Unmeasurable Neu - Fur Immen Luna - Indian Summer Iannis Xenakis - La Legende D'er Krakatau - anything Devil Doll - Dies Irae, Sacriligeum Crown Of Autumn - Treasure Arcane Empyrium - Songs of the Moors Ghost - anything Fushitsusha - Purple Trap, Allegorical Misunderstanding Beyond the Calico Wall compilation Acid Dreams Epitath compilation Magma - anything Univers Zero - Heresies The Fugs- anything and anything else along those lines. I'd also be interested in any old time bluegrass-mountain music. Thanx for your time and hope to hear from some of you. Cheers, Steve - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dwight Haden <dhaden@worldnet.att.net> Subject: Date: 29 Mar 1998 11:49:57 +0000 >Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 20:39:25 -0800 >From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@uvic.ca> >Subject: Masada > >I asked if they >could order Masada 9, but they couldn't find Masada in their Koch >catalogue. Who's the Canadian distributor for DIW? I don't know but I suggest you check out Cheap Thrills in Montreal. They carry DIW at a decent price. Masadas are under "M" not "Z" in their catalog. http://www.cam.org/~thrills/#catalogs Dwight Haden === dhaden@worldnet.att.net - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: david thiel <thiel@buffnet.net> Subject: Zorn and Bondage Date: 29 Mar 1998 09:13:49 +0000 I am wondering if any one else is confused or put off by Zorn's interest in bondage. I'm confused by the bondage interest in his work ( such as the cover for the Painkiller live in japan disc and the naming of selections like Osaka Bondage). The Painkiller live album is called Rituals so I believe the cover photo relates to this title, but what confuses me is how bondage relates to Zorn's music which to me has meant breaking though musical bondage's. Looking up Zorn's artist list from the Grand Guignol disc, I found sites on the web about Dan Oniroku who is as much as I've seen a bondage artist. The theme of bondage is the only one that doesn't make sense to me in Zorn's work ( even the use of a serial killers writing on a wall for Buried Secrets makes sense to me). I would appreciate hearing others on the lists thoughts on this subject. One other quick comment yesterday I picked up the new Music Revelation Ensemble release that has Zorn playing on it (called Cross Fire) it is interesting hearing Zorn play James Blood Ulmer"s compositions. The only bad part of the Disc is that Zorn and Pharaoh Sanders never play on a track together. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Zorn and Bondage Date: 29 Mar 1998 23:28:20 +1000 > I am wondering if any one else is confused or put off by Zorn's interest > in bondage. I'm confused by the bondage interest in his work ( such as > the cover for the Painkiller live in japan disc and the naming of > selections like Osaka Bondage). The Painkiller live album is called > Rituals so I believe the cover photo relates to this title, but what > confuses me is how bondage relates to Zorn's music which to me has meant > breaking though musical bondage's. Looking up Zorn's artist list from > the Grand Guignol disc, I found sites on the web about Dan Oniroku who > is as much as I've seen a bondage artist. The theme of bondage is the > only one that doesn't make sense to me in Zorn's work ( even the use of > a serial killers writing on a wall for Buried Secrets makes sense to > me). I would appreciate hearing others on the lists thoughts on this > subject. I just saw it as an extension of the whole torture thing. Most of the titles are related to torture, insanity, sex or horror, so bondage just seems like a natural inclusion. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: Zorn and Bondage Date: 29 Mar 1998 07:28:04 -0800 >I am wondering if any one else is confused or put off by Zorn's interest >in bondage. Try it. You might like it. Penguin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: SCHLEEP Date: 29 Mar 1998 08:40:43 -0800 anyone out there listening to Robert Wyatt's latest? was kind of put off by it at first. now can't stop listening. is surely the first recording on which both Brian Eno and Evan Parker appear? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Naked City Date: 29 Mar 1998 09:12:47 -0800 Okay, who out there knows ALL the Naked City records, and what can you tell me about each one? gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Keldon Drudge <kdrudge@julian.uwo.ca> Subject: re: canadian masada distribution Date: 29 Mar 1998 12:59:56 -0500 (EST) Cheap Thrills is a great source; also check out Verge music distribution in Peterborough at http://www.ptbo.igs.net/~verge/ (which is cheaper probably depends on which province you live in, since if you order out of province you don't pay provincial sales tax) On Sun, 29 Mar 1998, Dwight Haden wrote: > >Date: Fri, 27 Mar 1998 20:39:25 -0800 > >From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@uvic.ca> > >Subject: Masada > > > >I asked if they > >could order Masada 9, but they couldn't find Masada in their Koch > >catalogue. Who's the Canadian distributor for DIW? > > I don't know but I suggest you check out Cheap Thrills in Montreal. > They carry DIW at a decent price. Masadas are under "M" not "Z" in their > catalog. > > http://www.cam.org/~thrills/#catalogs > > Dwight Haden === dhaden@worldnet.att.net > > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re: SCHLEEP Date: 29 Mar 1998 14:05:03 -0500 Keith McMullen wrote: > > anyone out there listening to Robert Wyatt's latest? was kind of put off by > it at first. now can't stop listening. Schleep is fantastic!! I too, was lukewarm to it at first, but it has definitely grown on me. Much like Rockbottom did many years ago. I know this would be heresy in some quarters, but I think Schleep may even supplant RockBottom as the quintessential Wyatt album. Rich - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re: feldman Date: 29 Mar 1998 13:08:53 -0600 (CST) On Fri, 27 Mar 1998, stephen drury wrote: > I agree wholeheartedly with Joe Zitt on Feldman's PIANO AND STRING QUARTET, > and also the ...AND ORCHESTRA collection. But how did Joe miss "FOR MORTON > FELDMAN" on HatArt? Extraordinary piece; strongest impact of any Feldman I > know. "For Morton Feldman"? The only piece of that name that I know of is by (I think) Stephen Mosko. Hmm... You might mean "For Christian Wolff"? I haven't heard it, not being able to convince myself to shell out the US$60 or so for it. (Anyone wanna sell a used copy?) - ---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------1---------- |||/ Joseph Zitt ===== jzitt@humansystems.com ===== Human Systems \||| ||/ Maryland? = <*> SILENCE: The John Cage Mailing List <*> = ecto \|| |/ http://www.realtime.net/~jzitt ====== Comma: Voices of New Music \| - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: SCHLEEP Date: 29 Mar 1998 17:54:44 -0500 Keith McMullen wrote: > > anyone out there listening to Robert Wyatt's latest? was kind of put off by > it at first. now can't stop listening. is surely the first recording on > which both Brian Eno and Evan Parker appear? For a strange Parker tidbit, there's a Scott Walker album with both Evan Parker and Billy Ocean?! Now there's an odd combination! -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: SCHLEEP Date: 29 Mar 1998 15:49:15 -0800 >For a strange Parker tidbit, there's a Scott Walker album with both Evan >Parker and Billy Ocean?! Now there's an odd combination! > > -Tom Pratt How is Scott Walker? K. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stephen drury <stevedrury@mindspring.com> Subject: Re:feldman Date: 29 Mar 1998 23:37:18 -0500 At 01:31 AM 3/29/98 -0700, you wrote: >Date: Sat, 28 Mar 1998 02:44:02 EST >From: JonAbbey2 <JonAbbey2@aol.com> >Subject: Re: feldman >OK, now maybe I'm completely off base here, but I don't think there is a >Feldman piece called FOR MORTON FELDMAN. My guess is that Mr. Drury is >referring to FOR BUNITA MARCUS which is also one of my favorite Feldman discs. > Of course, not FOR MORTON FELDMAN. What I had in mind was FOR SAMUEL BECKETT. The two have become one person in my deteriorating mind. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: gsg@juno.com (Geoff S Gersh) Subject: Peter Thomas Date: 30 Mar 1998 01:09:21 EST anyone familiar with Peter Thomas' Sound Orchestra?? he did music for film in the late 60's/early 70's.....the music I heard was for elec. guitar,drums, bass, brass, electronics, voice......had elements of jazz, lounge/exotica, spacy elec. sounds, even early hints of drum n bass!! I heard some of his music from the film Chariots of the Gods on Spinning on Air, a radio show in NYC, the other night.....its pretty wild stuff. Im just curious if anyone knows about his work...and if hes still around. Im sure Zorn must know of him! later G.Gersh _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "A. David Gross" <bliss@IDT.NET> Subject: SKIF2 Date: 30 Mar 1998 00:11:52 -0500 Bliss Records 36 Plaza Street East Brooklyn, NY 11238 (212) 330-0688 www.skifnyc.com For Immediate Release: Contact: Katie Down (212) 330-0688 SKIF2 (The Second Annual Sergey Kuryokhin International Festival) New, avant-garde and experimental music - May 6 through 10, 1998 From May 6th through the 10th, 1998, Bliss Records in association with The Russian-American Cultural Forum are pleased to announce The Second Annual Sergey Kuryokhin International Festival (SKIF2), celebrating the life and work of the innovative Russian pianist/composer/actor Sergey Kuryokhin (1954 - 1996). In January, 1997, cellist and composer Boris Rayskin organized the 11-day Sergey Kuryokhin International Interdisciplinary Festival (SKIIFestival) in New York City dedicated to the memory of Sergey Kuryokhin. Tragically, Boris's life ended soon after the festival. SKIF2 is dedicated in his memory. SKIF2 will once again bring together many artists with whom Kuryokhin collaborated, as well those close to his creative spirit, to perform in this eclectic musical celebration. The festival will showcase the most cutting edge avant-garde, jazz, and experimental rock musicians from Russia, the United States and Europe including: "Silver Apples", "Tequila Jazz", "Kolibri", Rashied Ali, Marilyn Crispell, "Tri-O", Vladimir Tarasov, Sakari Luoma, Yudanov and Katz, David Soldier, "White Out", Borah Bergman, Cyro Baptista, "Vershki da Koreshki", "The Slackers", Volkov-Trio, Spectre and Sensational, Ned Rothenberg, Anatole Gerasimov, Aleksey Khvostenko, William Hooker, DJ-Olive + WE, Peter Brotzman and special guest artist Chico Freeman and many more. Daniel Rayskin, Boris's Brother will perform a special piece dedicated to his late brother. "SKIF2", will be held at the best venues of New York City: THE COOLER, CAMI HALL, MERKIN HALL, and the ELBOW ROOM. The festival will be an opportunity for further collaboration between Russian, European and American performers who will share their music with New York audiences. SKIF2 is produced by Bliss Records in Association with The Russian-American Cultural Forum. Artistic Direction for the festival is provided by Seva Gakkel, chairman of the Board of The Sergey Kuryokhin Foundation, St. Petersburg, Russia, and Anatole Gerasimov. For more information call the SKIF HOTLINE at (212) 330-0688 or check out the web site at www.skifnyc.com PEace & lOve David Gross Bliss Records http://www.skifnyc.com PEace & lOve David Gross Bliss Records http://www.skifnyc.com - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: stamil@t-online.de (Chris Genzel) Subject: M.E. Miller / Charles K. Noyes Date: 30 Mar 1998 08:05:03 +0200 Through "Locus Solus" and the first Golden Palominos album, I became interested in Mark (M.E.) Miller. I know he's on the Material "Live From Soundscape" CD, but I can't distinguish him from Moss and Noyes on this set. What can you tell me about Miller? What recordings of his are available and recommended? Is he still active? The same question goes for Charles K. Noyes -- I love his appearance on "Memory Serves" and I also have "Improvised Music New York 1981". Kind regards, - Chris. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: Re: Peter Thomas Date: 30 Mar 1998 12:53:49 +0200 (MESZ) well i guess most of you guys already know that.. Peter Thomas is a german filmcomposer...he had his most active period in the 60s and 70s when he did the music for german crime films and sci-fi stuff... he worked alot for tv also... he is still active today and will soon release a new CD called "warped back to earth" which will feature guys from Tortoise, Mouse on mars, Pulp, Stock-hausen and Walkman etc. some really important musicians such as Klaus Doldinger (passport) and Jan Hammer started their carreers playing in his sound-orchester. there is a peter thomas sample on the new PULP single and Mr. Bungle did cover versions of some of his stuff on the Disco Volante tour... some CDs out at the moment: RAUMPATROUILLE - amazing, essential the BEST FILMMUSIK - GREAT STUFF!! 100% COTTON - well ok but not essential CHARIOTS OF THE GODS - i guess that one was not rereleased on CD STEINER, THE IRON CROSS pt. 2 - pretty normal filmmusic... THUNDER ON THE BORDERLINE - music for a german western movie, nice EASY LOUNGIN` - nice compilation for the start KRIMINALFILMMUSIK - dont have it yet but similar to FILMMUSIK hope that helps BJOERN - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: the far side Date: 30 Mar 1998 20:25:06 +1000 Is Bill Frisell's music for Tales From The Far Side available on any of his releases? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Naked City Date: 30 Mar 1998 20:19:52 +1000 > Okay, who out there knows ALL the Naked City records, and what can you > tell me about each one? Naked City - a big mixture of jazzy stuff, bluesy stuff and a bit of thrash here and there. Probably the best one to start on - it includes covers of James Bond, Lonely Woman by Ornette Coleman and the brilliant Contempt by George Delerue, among others. Grand Guignol - one long noisy track followed by a bunch of classical covers (Debussy, Scriabin, Messaien, Ives and Di Lassus) and then a whole lot of "thrash jazz" - short bursts of energy with heavy guitars, saxophone squealing and Eye screaming his lungs out. These pieces have got titles like Pigfucker, which is an added bonus. Torture Garden - all material on this disc overlaps from the last two - it includes the whole thrash jazz section from Grand Guignol and some of the heavier tracks from Naked City. Radio - probably the most fun album - included is a list of influences for each track which is supposed to help you figure out where the band is coming from in each piece (it rarely helps). There are a lot of fully cohesive tracks here. But just in the first few tracks there are elements of funk, freejazz, classical, metal, bebop, surf and rockabilly. Absinthe - ambient soundscapes perhaps? I don't know how to describe this. Apparently, they set out to make noises that you wouldn't easily recognise. Heretic - noisy tracks with smaller groups from the band getting together and feeding off each other. Lots of squealing, screaming and fucking about. Leng Tche - a torturous slow heavy piece, over 30 minutes in length. It depicts a chinese torture and so in the middle there is a lot of screaming. There are (very) sustained chords, very few chord changes though. You shouldn't listen to this while watching the counter on your cd player. Well, that's all of them I guess. By the way, this is a really cool thing to do to if you want to waste some time. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: the far side Date: 30 Mar 1998 23:14:52 +1000 > Is Bill Frisell's music for Tales From The Far Side available on any of his > releases? Well, here I go answering my own question. After a bit of looking I found "Quartet". But a followup question: is this cd basically a soundtrack to the animation, or is there other stuff on there too? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Chris B{rrett" <cbarrett@neaq.org> Subject: Re: the far side Date: 30 Mar 1998 08:44:50 -0500 His CD Quartet w/ Eyvind Kang, Ron MIles and (wow, I can't remember the fourth person) has several tracks from the Far Side (though I missed the special, so I don't know if these are the actual recordings). I don't have it yet, but Gone Like a Train also has some tracks that I know were on Quartet. -Chris At 8:25 PM 3/30/98, Julian wrote: >Is Bill Frisell's music for Tales From The Far Side available on any of his >releases? > > >- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Robert A. Pleshar" <rpleshar@midway.uchicago.edu> Subject: Charles K. Noyes Date: 30 Mar 1998 08:09:47 -0600 (CST) Speaking of Mr. Noyes- Does anyone have a copy of his album. I think it's called "The World and the Raw People" or something like that? If so, is anyone willing to tape it for me? (or even sell or trade it?) I remember playing it on the radio a lot and enjoying it a lot, but never got around to taping it. Ralph - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Joseph S. Zitt" <jzitt@humansystems.com> Subject: Re:feldman Date: 30 Mar 1998 08:12:11 -0600 (CST) On Sun, 29 Mar 1998, stephen drury wrote: > Of course, not FOR MORTON FELDMAN. What I had in mind was FOR SAMUEL > BECKETT. The two have become one person in my deteriorating mind. Ah! I haven't heard the HatArt recording to which you referred, but I've heard the other one (was it on Newport Classics?). It's not one of my favorites, though it's a good example of his dense large-ensemble works, in the same class as Neither and the "... and Orchestra" series. - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar Subject: Re: the far side Date: 30 Mar 1998 11:22:49 -0300 --openmail-part-00f5719c-00000001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Re:" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Re:" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The fourth person is Curtis Fowlkes on trombone and "Quartet" is an outstanding cd; by the way, any opinions on "Gone like a train"? -Hugo, from Argentina --openmail-part-00f5719c-00000001 Content-Type: message/rfc822 MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: cbarrett/unix////////RFC-822/cbarrett#a#neaq#f#org@cmqp03 TO: jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au, zorn-list@xmission.com FROM: cbarrett/unix////////RFC-822/cbarrett#a#neaq#f#org@cmqp03 Content-Type: multipart/Mixed; boundary="openmail-part-00f5719c-00000002" --openmail-part-00f5719c-00000002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; name="Re:" Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Re:" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit His CD Quartet w/ Eyvind Kang, Ron MIles and (wow, I can't remember the fourth person) has several tracks from the Far Side (though I missed the special, so I don't know if these are the actual recordings). I don't have it yet, but Gone Like a Train also has some tracks that I know were on Quartet. -Chris At 8:25 PM 3/30/98, Julian wrote: >Is Bill Frisell's music for Tales From The Far Side available on any of his >releases? > > >- - --openmail-part-00f5719c-00000002-- --openmail-part-00f5719c-00000001-- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Benton <rancor@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu> Subject: Re: the far side Date: 30 Mar 1998 09:20:08 -0600 (CST) > >His CD Quartet w/ Eyvind Kang, Ron MIles and (wow, I can't remember the >fourth person) has several tracks from the Far Side (though I missed the >special, so I don't know if these are the actual recordings). I don't >have it yet, but Gone Like a Train also has some tracks that I know were >on Quartet. > The fourth person is Curtis Fowlkes. But back to the matter at hand - no, the tracks on 'Quartet' did not appear in the actual Far Side special. I'm under the impression that the sessions for the soundtrack included Bay Area organ ace Rob Burger and maybe Briggan Krauss on saxophone, among other people. Off the top of my head, 'Gone Just Like a Train' does have at least one of the Far Side tunes on it: "Egg Radio". By the way, I haven't seen this special either - has anyone? -tom - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glenn Lea <glenn_lea@avid.com> Subject: Re: the far side Date: 30 Mar 1998 10:42:20 -0500 rancor@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu wrote: > > By the way, I haven't seen this special either - has anyone? I saw it. Funny and really sick. For example, one segment was about an "dude ranch" for dead people who couldn't seem to keep all their body parts attached. It deserves a video release. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jtalbot@massart.edu Subject: Leng Tche Date: 30 Mar 1998 11:10:58 -0500 >Leng Tche - a torturous slow heavy piece, over 30 minutes in length. It >depicts a chinese torture and so in the middle there is a lot of screaming. >There are (very) sustained chords, very few chord changes though. You >shouldn't listen to this while watching the counter on your cd player. also a great album to paint to..... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: SCHLEEP Date: 30 Mar 1998 08:29:08 -0800 On Sun, 29 Mar 1998 17:54:44 -0500 Tom Pratt wrote: > > Keith McMullen wrote: > > > > anyone out there listening to Robert Wyatt's latest? was kind of put off by > > it at first. now can't stop listening. is surely the first recording on > > which both Brian Eno and Evan Parker appear? > > For a strange Parker tidbit, there's a Scott Walker album with both Evan > Parker and Billy Ocean?! Now there's an odd combination! As much as Evan Parker and Charlie Watts? Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: M.E. Miller / Charles K. Noyes Date: 30 Mar 1998 08:37:08 -0800 On Mon, 30 Mar 1998 08:05:03 +0200 Chris Genzel wrote: > > > Through "Locus Solus" and the first Golden Palominos album, I became interested > in Mark (M.E.) Miller. I know he's on the Material "Live From Soundscape" CD, > but I can't distinguish him from Moss and Noyes on this set. > What can you tell me about Miller? What recordings of his are available and > recommended? Is he still active? Tidbit about Mark Miller: he is married to a country singer in San Francisco; they have a band together that plays lots of weddings [it was a couple years ago]. > The same question goes for Charles K. Noyes -- I love his appearance on > "Memory Serves" and I also have "Improvised Music New York 1981". > > Kind regards, > - Chris. > > > - > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nils Jacobson <JACOBSON@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu> Subject: Re: Sounds wanted Date: 30 Mar 1998 12:00:35 +0100 sasanborn@micron.com writes: > I am interested in hearing the following music, if you have any of > these things and could dub me a copy in trade for something I have, > that would be excellent. I highly recommend buying the music in question. The musicians need the money, the labels need support, and it's generally a good idea to go to the store and do everyone a service. I know it's hard to come up with the money, but then maybe you can listen to the radio. That's always free. -Nils - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Nils Jacobson <JACOBSON@frodo.mgh.harvard.edu> Subject: Re: the far side Date: 30 Mar 1998 12:03:54 +0100 "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> writes: > > Is Bill Frisell's music for Tales From The Far Side available on any of > > his releases? > > Well, here I go answering my own question. After a bit of looking I found > "Quartet". But a followup question: is this cd basically a soundtrack to > the animation, or is there other stuff on there too? The CD contains soundtracks from three or four different things. It has some stuff from the far side, and some stuff from Italian TV specials, etc. I don't have it in front of me so I can't give the details, but I can highly recommend Quartet. It's a good record. Really quite different from the other things Frisell has done lately. The music is super subtle and quite cartoonish. Worth checking out. -Nils - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: SCHLEEP Date: 30 Mar 1998 09:46:10 -0800 On Sun, 29 Mar 1998 15:49:15 -0800 "Keith McMullen" wrote: > > >For a strange Parker tidbit, there's a Scott Walker album with both Evan > >Parker and Billy Ocean?! Now there's an odd combination! > > > > -Tom Pratt > > > How is Scott Walker? A fabulous singer and songwriter!!! American. Moved to England (where he still lives). Founded the Walker Brothers in the '60s. Got few hits then disbanded. After that Scott started a solo career. Very reclusive and terse output. A big influence on many singers (to give a recent example: Neil Hannon of Divine Comedy). There is currently a compilation of his late '60s songs that is fabulous. TILT, his last record, is easily available. Even Jim O'Rourke likes him (which explains the US release of TILT). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Re: Naked City Date: 30 Mar 1998 13:24:54 -0500 (EST) It's funny that no one mentions that the thrash songs on the first naked city album (10-17) are all repeated on Torture Garden, which is repeated in exactly the same order on grand Guignol, and are also available on the Black Box 2 CD which has torture garden. So the same performances of those songs (10-17 from Naked City) are repeated 4 times. I'm sure this is common knowledge to most but a lot of people, such as reviewers, don't make this connection. In any case Torture Garden is awesome, worth getting in one of its 3 fully avail. forms. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Andy Marks" <Andy.Marks@mts.com> Subject: Re: Naked City Date: 30 Mar 1998 13:34:44 -0500 > It's funny that no one mentions that the thrash songs on the first naked > city album (10-17) are all repeated on Torture Garden, which is repeated > in exactly the same order on grand Guignol Actually, Grand Guignol contains all of Torture garden EXCEPT the thrash songs from Naked City. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar Subject: VIDEO Date: 30 Mar 1998 15:48:40 -0300 Is there anybody out there who knows where can I get "N.City at the Marquee Club" video? Any more information about International Transfers (Email, telephone)? Thanks, -Hugo, from Argentina - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re[2]: Naked City Date: 30 Mar 1998 19:27:58 UT Actually, this is how it goes: Torture Garden is a full album of mini-thrash-jazz tunes with Yamatsuka Eye of the Boredoms supplying some lead vocals. Some of these tunes are also available on the first Naked City album along with original speed jazz tunes by Zorn/Naked City and a bunch of awesome covers. Grand Guignol contains all the OTHER tunes from Torture Garden, plus Grand Guignol, plus, I think, those classical covers. Thus, if you have Naked City and Grand Guignol, you have ALL the tunes from Torture Garden, just not all in a row. Black Box contains the entire Torture Garden LP in its entirety, in the proper order, etc.etc.etc. Finally, Radio contains a bunch more mini-thrash-jazz tunes along these same lines, but this is the only place they appear. Also, for some reason, they don't seem as great as the others. What the difference could be, heaven only knows, but I routinely skip these while savoring every moment of the Naked City/Torture Garden ones. Anyway, the rest of the album is really good and I listen to it semi-regularly. Anyway, that's the skinny. Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "David J. Strauss" <djs2852@is.nyu.edu> Subject: Peter Thomas Date: 30 Mar 1998 15:01:06 -0500 (EST) I belive Scamp is issuing a Peter Thomas comp in a month or so. DS djs2852@is.nyu.edu - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Matt Moffett <fkmoffet@erols.com> Subject: Scorn and Ground Zero Date: 30 Mar 1998 15:32:09 -0500 The Capital Ballroom in D.C. is putting on 2 good shows in April Wed April 1 Invisible Records Tour, feat. Pigface, Scorn, FM Einheit (of Neubaten), etc.(Scorn seems to be tentative, according to the venue they will be there, the record label seems confused) Wed April 8 Ground Zero tix for both I think are $15 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Brent Burton <bburton@CapAccess.org> Subject: Re: Scorn and Ground Zero Date: 30 Mar 1998 15:25:06 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Matt Moffett wrote: > The Capital Ballroom in D.C. is putting on 2 good shows in April > Wed April 8 > Ground Zero this isn't the band ground zero. it's just an evening of gothic dj-ing entitled "ground zero". b - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Remco Vlaanderen <varlecom@xs4all.nl> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #280 Date: 30 Mar 1998 22:00:56 -0800 Re: Bondage >I am wondering if any one else is confused or put off by Zorn's interest >in bondage. I'm confused by the bondage interest in his work ( such as >the cover for the Painkiller live in japan disc and the naming of >selections like Osaka Bondage). The Painkiller live album is called >Rituals so I believe the cover photo relates to this title, but what >confuses me is how bondage relates to Zorn's music which to me has meant >breaking though musical bondage's. Looking up Zorn's artist list from >the Grand Guignol disc, I found sites on the web about Dan Oniroku who >is as much as I've seen a bondage artist. The theme of bondage is the >only one that doesn't make sense to me in Zorn's work ( even the use of >a serial killers writing on a wall for Buried Secrets makes sense to >me). I would appreciate hearing others on the lists thoughts on this >subject. Or, why does bondage like Zorn? 'Osaka Bondage' is a short video clip by Henri Hills, a sort of collage clip using images from Japanese XXX-rated trash porn supported by naked City songs. The speedy mixture of images, the fast cutting-techniques and the concept of sampling are all elements that Zorn tends to use in his approach to music. 2 weeks ago I saw the video 'The Elegant Spanking' by Maria Beatty (here in Amsterdam) in which she is dominated by another woman. The dominatrix ties up Maria to the bed and then she starts using all kinds of instruments to inflict a certain pain. Zorn did the sound design for this video, that was filmed in beautiful classic noir style and his score is perfect with the images. Zorn's interest in bondage is nothing to be scared about. The man has a healthy interest in both high and low culture and he likes to help out his fellow-artists who are in need of soundtracks for their films. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * Remco Vlaanderen +31 (0)20 4202405 varlecom@xs4all.nl - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V2 #280 Date: 30 Mar 1998 13:09:18 -0800 >Re: Bondage Zorn's interest was an insider's. Not just as an outside observer. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: a rancid amoeba <rancid@best.com> Subject: Re: Scorn and Ground Zero Date: 30 Mar 1998 13:31:56 -0800 (PST) > The Capital Ballroom in D.C. is putting on 2 good shows in April > > Wed April 1 > Invisible Records Tour, feat. Pigface, Scorn, FM Einheit (of > Neubaten), etc.(Scorn seems to be tentative, according to the venue > they will be there, the record label seems confused) > Or maybe not so hot.... I saw this show in SF and it was quite disappointing. Pigface are the doing the same thing they've been doing for years but its infectious quality is gone--it feels more like they're just mindlessly rehashing the same thing for the zillionth time. FM Einheit was definitely the highlight of the night although it was not at all what I expected. He's not doing any of his experimental stuff--it's a very rock-oriented line-up complete with female singer and Einheit plays a very small role in it all. Very well done, just not pushing the limits any. Scorn didn't play. Atkins came on stage to tell us all that Mick had gone to be with his wife/girlfriend/significant other (whichever it is) who had just had a baby girl. According to another source who'd talked to Mick by email, Invisible fucked up the paperwork to get him into the country and he was quite pissed. I wouldn't be surprised if he doesn't do any of the remaining dates. Tribes of Neurot, Bagman, and Not Breathing also played at the SF show (I doubt they're on the rest of the tour). Tribes live are even more wanker than their CDs--I love Neurosis but Tribes just sounds so forced and formulated. Bagman is a Sheep on Drugs side project and was just embarassing--while a knob tweaker did techno-type stuff, the "singer" just yelled really stupid things (like 'what's up San Francisco') into the mic and danced around (not all that well). Not Breathing were good--a whole slew of knob tweakers doing techno/ jungle. And then added to all that was Invisible-related video ads between all the bands. Pitiful. In summary, if Scorn doesn't show up, watching TV might be a much more enjoyable way to pass the evening. chanel (who'll be having an awesome April Fools Day at the Crash Worship show) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ http://www.arancidamoeba.com/ rancid@best.com r e c o r d l a b e l s o n t h e w e b future home of a rancid amoeba records - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: West Coast (US) tour of Fred Frith? Date: 30 Mar 1998 14:13:55 -0800 Does anybody know if Frith will really tour on the West Coast in the near future? I remember reading about a tour with Larry Ochs and Miyaka Masaoka. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ia zha nah er vesen <jwnarves@csclub.uwaterloo.ca> Subject: Re: bobby previte Date: 30 Mar 1998 17:59:26 -0500 (EST) > Can someone tell me what Bobby Previte's recordings are generally like, > particularly "My Man In Sydney" and "Euclid's Nightmare"? Euclid's Nightmare is wonderful...it's 27 very short improvisations; Zorn and Previtte tried to make them all one minute long, but some of them were a bit longer, so the whole disc is about 47:00 or so. Both of them have a lot of fun, and manage to create a variety of moods. It's very rhythmic, as you'd expect...some tracks are jazzy, some are noise-ey, some are noise-es...and at the end, you have the privilege of hearing Z&P discuss where to have lunch. I also bought 'Too Close to the Pole' thanks to wise words from Patrice, and it, too, is a fine fine thing. The first track is a hectic horn-hocket pseudo-spy-movie music, very fun. The second song is a 13 minute long song which starts with a drum rhythm in 7 accompanied by tin whistle, later joined by chromaticly teasing horns, and builds to a beutiful moment....theres' a cover of a tune from 'the queen of spades', an opera by Tchaikovsky, and and and... -jascha - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Dan Hewins <hewins@synsolutions.com> Subject: Peeved (was Re: bobby previte) Date: 30 Mar 1998 17:10:33 -0600 >Euclid's Nightmare is wonderful...it's 27 very short improvisations; Zorn >and Previtte tried to make them all one minute long, but some of them were >a bit longer, so the whole disc is about 47:00 or so. Both of them have a >lot of fun, and manage to create a variety of moods. It's very rhythmic, >as you'd expect...some tracks are jazzy, some are noise-ey, some are >noise-es...and at the end, you have the privilege of hearing Z&P discuss >where to have lunch. First, I'll agree with this. I really enjoy this disc except for one thing. As I was scanning through it to find a good one to put on a mix tape for a friend I discovered that there is at least one repeated track on there. 7 and 18 are identical! What's up with that? I would have expected better from those guys. I don't know if there are any other repeated tracks; I didn't bother to check. What's the need for repeating tracks? There is absolutely no difference between the two I found, not even a few notes... Dan - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rohan James Parkes <marlowe@labyrinth.net.au> Subject: RE: the far side Date: 31 Mar 1998 09:19:07 +1000 I was waiting to see the special, which was shown here for the first = time a few days ago, but I have to say I didn't care for it much. = Unrelentingly morbid and depressing, and I thought some of the humour = wasn't very convincing. But then I've always found Larson's humour to be = patchy.=20 Frisell's soundtrack is too low in the mix, and I was rather = disappointed to see that he only got a standard credit at the end. (And = the credits rolled by too quickly.) Rohan Parkes The Something Else Show 3-PBS FM Melbourne Australia http://www.vicnet.net.au/~pbsfm/jazz/default.html -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 1998 1:42 AM rancor@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu wrote: >=20 > By the way, I haven't seen this special either - has anyone? I saw it. Funny and really sick. For example, one segment was about an = "dude ranch" for dead people who couldn't seem to keep all their body parts attached. It deserves a video release. - =00=00 - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Naked City Date: 30 Mar 1998 15:39:32 -0800 William York writes: > It's funny that no one mentions that the thrash songs on the first naked > city album (10-17) are all repeated on Torture Garden, which is repeated > in exactly the same order on grand Guignol, and are also available on the > Black Box 2 CD which has torture garden. So the same performances of > those songs (10-17 from Naked City) are repeated 4 times. I'm sure this > is common knowledge to most but a lot of people, such as reviewers, don't > make this connection. In any case Torture Garden is awesome, worth > getting in one of its 3 fully avail. forms. I'm a little confused. Are the tunes the same ones on each record, in different peformances, or are they the same tunes and performances recycled on each CD? gg - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Tom Pratt <tpratt@smtc.net> Subject: Re: Naked City Date: 30 Mar 1998 18:16:26 -0500 George Grella wrote: > > William York writes: > > > It's funny that no one mentions that the thrash songs on the first naked > > city album (10-17) are all repeated on Torture Garden, which is repeated > > in exactly the same order on grand Guignol, and are also available on the > > Black Box 2 CD which has torture garden. So the same performances of > > those songs (10-17 from Naked City) are repeated 4 times. I'm sure this > > is common knowledge to most but a lot of people, such as reviewers, don't > > make this connection. In any case Torture Garden is awesome, worth > > getting in one of its 3 fully avail. forms. > > I'm a little confused. Are the tunes the same ones on each record, in > different peformances, or are they the same tunes and performances > recycled on each CD? > > gg Same tunes, same performances. I've never read any explanation as to why Zorn chose to do this but I assume it had something to do with his desire to give each entire record a sort of compositional structure. ie: NAKED CITY seems to be a short/speed track sandwich on longer/focused track bread. -Tom Pratt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Bondage Date: 30 Mar 1998 19:27:03 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Remco Vlaanderen wrote: > 'Osaka Bondage' is a short video clip by Henri Hills, a sort of collage > clip > using images from Japanese XXX-rated trash porn supported by naked City > songs. I saw Hills present this clip along with a number of other examples of his work a couple of years ago. It's a fine piece of work, but it was made to accompany the music (not vice versa) and Hills expressed some discomfort about the bondage sequences, which he'd included because of Zorn's interest in bondage. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: jkan@javanet.com Subject: Re: Naked City Date: 30 Mar 1998 19:39:23 -0500 At 06:16 PM 3/30/98 -0500, Tom Pratt wrote: >Same tunes, same performances. > >I've never read any explanation as to why Zorn chose to do this but I >assume it had something to do with his desire to give each entire record >a sort of compositional structure. ie: NAKED CITY seems to be a >short/speed track sandwich on longer/focused track bread. > > -Tom Pratt I'd guess it had something to do with Elektra/Nonesuch not being willing to release that material in its entirety. I remember _Torture Garden_ coming out on Shimmy Disc about the same time as _Naked City_, or shortly afterwards, which seems to suggest that Zorn had to find another publisher for the noisier stuff. Speculation, of course.... Jim //========================================================================= // Jim Kan (jkan@javanet.com) // // However far you may travel in this world, you will still occupy // the same volume of space. // Traditional Ur-Bororo saying //========================================================================= - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Cappy D'Angelo" <cappyd@UVic.CA> Subject: Re: Naked City Date: 30 Mar 1998 17:11:22 -0800 (PST) I too figured it had something to do with the different labels. Might it also have something to do with difficulties with distributers/retailers and certain graphics? (wasn't this the reason for the Black Box release of Torture Garden by Tzadik?) This doesn't explain much, though, as the original Torture Garden artwork seems the LEAST disturbing compared to Naked City, Grand Guignol, etc. ... I don't even own the ORIGINAL Torture Garden and I have two copies of all those tracks between NC, GG, and the Black Box (which I had to get for Leng Tche - what a great marketing ploy!) Cappy D'Angelo Student at Law - Intellectual Property Dabbler in Recording - Sonic Solutions Digital Editing and Mastering Twanger of Guitar & Blower of Eb Horns of Alto & Bari Persuasion Victoria, B.C., CANADA - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Uncle Meat <jf.lamarre@sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: the far side Date: 30 Mar 1998 20:29:01 -0500 Yeah, on Quartet, released on Nonesuch in 1996 Julian wrote: > Is Bill Frisell's music for Tales From The Far Side available on any > of his > releases? > > - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Re: Naked City Date: 30 Mar 1998 21:04:08 -0500 (EST) > > It's funny that no one mentions that the thrash songs on the first naked > > city album (10-17) are all repeated on Torture Garden, which is repeated > > in exactly the same order on grand Guignol > Actually, Grand Guignol contains all of Torture garden EXCEPT > the thrash songs from Naked City. I guess that's why no one mentions it! I don't have G.G. but I borrowed and could have sworn it was the same thing. Anyway, here's another comment that may be off base, but when listening to Radio, another one I don't own, and reading the influences listed in the liner notes, I thought the influences were pretty clear. The Stravinsky/Stallings one, the one that cited the Ruins, and the Webern/Sinatra one stood out as being pretty clear. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: chasinthetrane@juno.com (Jamie F Graves) Subject: Gone, Just Like a Train Date: 30 Mar 1998 23:08:02 -0500 >The fourth person is Curtis Fowlkes on trombone and "Quartet" is an >outstanding cd; by the way, any opinions on "Gone like a train"? I'm still deciding on that CD. I bought it the week it came out, was at first dissapointed with the CD, then it grew on me. There is nothing wrong with the CD, it just doesn't really seem as inventive or fun as either Quartet or Nashville were. Its about the most straight I've ever heard Bill play, a lot of rock and folk and this album. However, granted, some of the tracks are phenomenal. Girl Asks Boy 1&2, Wife and Kid, and Verona are worth the price of the CD. Plus the cover art is really neat, by this cartoonist thats friends with Bill. All in all, its a great album, but I'm a little dissapointed in Bill. Excellent playing from all three (Viktor Kraus and Jim Keltner are phenomenal) but it doesn't seem all that new for Bill. Any other thoughts on this disc? Jamie _____________________________________________________________________ You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail. Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866] - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tosh@loop.com (Tosh) Subject: Re: Naked City Date: 30 Mar 1998 23:21:39 -0800 (PST) . The Stravinsky/Stallings one, the one >that cited the Ruins, and the Webern/Sinatra one stood out as being pretty >clear. This is interesting! Explain the Sinatra influence. ----------------- Tosh Berman TamTam Books ---------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: Peter Thomas Date: 31 Mar 1998 16:45:47 +1000 (EST) On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Geoff S Gersh wrote: > anyone familiar with Peter Thomas' Sound Orchestra?? > > I heard some of his music from the film Chariots of the Gods on Spinning > on Air, a radio show in NYC, the other night.....its pretty wild stuff. > "Chariots of the Gods" is great and totally destroyed! Psych-baroque-exotica freakout! Aaah: those crazy Germans - you gotta love 'em! Another great one by Thomas is: "The Spy Set". Tho', despite these gems, I haveta say - he did plenty of schlock cover versions of pop music of the day - avoid that garbage at all costs. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ulrich Gernert <Ulrich.Gernert@TU-Berlin.de> Subject: Where to get the Bible Launcher CD Date: 31 Mar 1998 15:06:12 +0200 Does anyone know, where I can bye Zorns "Bible Launcher" CD, published on Radical House Records? A distributor not so far away from Berlin, Germany. Thanks Ulrich Gernert - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: tosh@loop.com (Tosh) Subject: Re: Peter Thomas Date: 31 Mar 1998 07:02:23 -0800 (PST) I just bought the new Pulp single "This is Hardcore," and there is a sample of Thomas's "Bolero on the Moon Rocks" on it. Any comments on the Bolero record? The sample sounds great. ----------------- Tosh Berman TamTam Books ---------------- - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: BJOERN <bjoern.eichstaedt@student.uni-tuebingen.de> Subject: 20 essential records Date: 31 Mar 1998 14:07:17 +0200 (MESZ) 1. PLEASE ANSWER PRIVATELY!!!! i am sure several people would be pissed if you send the answers to the list THANX 2. This one goes mainly to people with CD/LP collections bigger than 1000 CDs/LPs (most of you guys I guess) so this morning i looked through my record collection this way: WHAT RECORDS WOULD I KEEP IF I COULD ONLY KEEP 20 OF THEM????? so what records would u guys keep if you could only keep 20 of your records???? i am interested in that because i am looking for essential records that i do not have yet and i am in the mood of selling lots of my stuff that is not THAT great! BJOERN http://www.cityinfonetz.de/uni/homepage/bjoern.eichstaedt - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> Subject: Re: Naked City Date: 31 Mar 1998 08:47:14 -0800 Tom Pratt writes: > Same tunes, same performances. > > I've never read any explanation as to why Zorn chose to do this but I > assume it had something to do with his desire to give each entire record > a sort of compositional structure. ie: NAKED CITY seems to be a > short/speed track sandwich on longer/focused track bread. > Wow, this actually bothers me, and I'm less inclined to be so charitable to Zorn over it. I respect his musicianship and a lot of his work, but there's a whiff of a cynical side now and then, and this smells of it. He's turned into quite a manufacturer of his own work, with all the film CDs and all the Masada recorinds, etc., et. al. Don't get me wrong, a lot of this is great music, but there's redundancy as well, and, as this list shows, a lot of devoted fans who'll buy most of everything. I don't want to sound critical of the listeners, I'm not, hey, I paid full price for the 25 minutes of music on Film Works VII [which also troubles me]. This Naked City thing shows me a little too much of that; copying tracks from one CD onto two others and selling them separately? For an improvising artist especially, that just doesn't seem right. Am I the only one who feels this way? gg P.S. and does that mean that "Absinthe" is the only recording that shows a substantial variation on the other CDs, yet if it's almost the same as Pain Killer, what's the point there? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Naked City Date: 31 Mar 1998 12:16:35 -0500 >>>>> "George" == George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> writes: George> This Naked City thing shows me a little too much of that; George> copying tracks from one CD onto two others and selling George> them separately? For an improvising artist especially, George> that just doesn't seem right. Am I the only one who feels George> this way? Torture Garden was released two years, and recorded one year, before the rest of Grand Guignol, and was originally 12-inch 45-rpm vinyl. So although there was some duplication with the Elektra CD, it's not like everything was available twice until much later. By the same token, Naked City didn't return to the studio again until after both the Elektra and Torture Garden were both released, and the remaining disks (except for Leng T'che) was all released on Avant (and were among the first releases on that label). So, perhaps the initial duplication was due perhaps to contractual dealings, and perhaps when GG was released, the original 45 had gone out of print. Thus perhaps the release of the extra Torture Garden material on GG provided a way to get all of the original material available again. I agree that it seems a bit cynical to release it yet again, but Leng T'che is IMHO the least listenable of all Naked City, and thus the new Tzadik release would be fairly easy to overlook (especially considering the excellent newer releases such as Angelus Novus, Duras/Duchamp, Bar Kokhba, etc.) and should be considered for completists only. Discographical details courtesy of Patrice, http://www.nwu.edu/wnur/jazz/artists/zorn.john/discog.html (who mentions when albums are released, but unfortunately does not mention how extensive the run is or when the release disappears from general circulation (information which would no doubt be extremely difficult to obtain with any degree of reliability). --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: cdeupree@interagp.com (Caleb Deupree) Subject: Re: Naked City Date: 31 Mar 1998 12:18:42 -0500 >>>>> "George" == George Grella <george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com> writes: George> P.S. and does that mean that "Absinthe" is the only George> recording that shows a substantial variation on the other George> CDs, yet if it's almost the same as Pain Killer, what's George> the point there? Sorry, almost missed this one. While Absinthe does show a significant variation from the other CDs, it is also very different from the ambient CD of Painkiller. Absinthe is a larger group playing music, the Painkiller disk is remixes. --- Caleb T. Deupree ;; Opinions are not necessarily shared by management Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. (Pablo Picasso) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: Re: Scorn Date: 31 Mar 1998 06:43:19 -0500 Matt Moffett <fkmoffet@erols.com> initially wrote: >>Wed April 1 >>Invisible Records Tour, feat. Pigface, Scorn, FM Einheit (of >>Neubaten), etc.(Scorn seems to be tentative, according to the venue >> >>they will be there, the record label seems confused) a rancid amoeba <rancid@best.com> replied with, among other things: >Scorn didn't play. Atkins came on stage to tell us all that Mick >had gone to be with his wife/girlfriend/significant other (whichever >it is) who had just had a baby girl. According to another source >who'd talked to Mick by email, Invisible fucked up the paperwork >to get him into the country and he was quite pissed. I wouldn't be >surprised if he doesn't do any of the remaining dates. What I know about this combines both stories. Mick's wife Helen did just have their second child, but this was not going to prevent him from coming over to do the tour. Someone (whether at Invisible or not) _did_ fuck up his US work permit/paperwork, by not getting it in time, but _only_ for the West Coast dates (SF & L.A.) and the rest of the first half of the tour. Mick was definitely pissed off, but he will (if all goes as planned ... hmmm??) be flying in to NYC (from his home in Birmingham) on 4/1 to _start_ the remainder of the dates that he is playing. This _begins_ with the NYC date on 4/2 (includes a bunch of cities in between such as Toronto (4/7), Pontiac, MI, Chicago (4/11) etc. etc.) and _ends_ with the Milwaukee date on 4/13. Here's hoping he doesn't scrap the whole damn thing ... -Patrick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re: Naked City Date: 31 Mar 1998 13:29:00 UT About Black Box: I remember Torture Garden fitting easily onto one side of a 90 minute tape (ie: under 45 minutes). I also thought LengTche was under 30 minutes. Couldn't he have pressed them both to the same disc? Although, 20 bucks for two short discs isn't too bad, I guess. Just wondering. Peter - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glenn Lea <glenn_lea@avid.com> Subject: Re: Naked City Date: 31 Mar 1998 12:54:20 -0500 george_grella@pop3.decisionanalytics.com wrote: > I don't want to sound critical of the listeners, I'm not, hey, I paid full > price for the 25 minutes of music on Film Works VII... I didn't mind in this case since those 25 minutes are so damn good. It's balanced out by the first Bar Hokhba, which was two loaded CDs for under $20. However, I suggest you pass on Masada 4. > This Naked City thing shows me a little too much of that; copying tracks > from one CD onto two others and selling them separately? He took about one third of a hard-to-find vinyl-only 45 EP and added them to the middle of the Naked City CD. The remaining two thirds he put on the Grand Guignol CD. I figured he was doing people a favor by making the EP's music available to CD buyers -- the resulting CDs were both quite long. Then the record company who had released the EP (Shimmydisc) decided to release it on CD and created the CD "duplication". At least that's how I remember it. I don't see it as that big a deal anyway. It's so easy now to find out what's on a CD, even hear it before you buy. You don't have to buy them all (and with Zorn, who could possibly afford to?). (BTW, how many people besides me played the EP at 33 the first time -- it sounded pretty cool that way). > P.S. and does that mean that "Absinthe" is the only recording that > shows a substantial variation on the other CDs, yet if it's almost the > same as Pain Killer, what's the point there? How is it like Pain Killer? Different band, different kind of music altogether. "Heretics" is very different from "Naked City" and "Absinthe" and "Leng Tche". Have you heard any of these? "Radio" is the only one that sounds like a "variation" to me. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: Fire label query Date: 31 Mar 1998 16:56:39 +1000 (EST) Does anything know anything about an Icelandic label called Fire? Apparently they were planning to release some 10" records by Jim O'Rourke, and Stock, Hausen and Walkman. Any info, greatly appreciated... - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: ROLAND JOST <ROLAND_JOST@compuserve.com> Subject: mike osborne Date: 31 Mar 1998 13:47:25 -0500 i hope this is not too off-topic here! does anyone know what mike osborne= is doing these days? i heard he's having some health problems (alcohol related). does he play at all? live? any new records? i'd appreciate some= info. if you think this doesn't belong here, please e-mail me privately. thanks. cheers roland - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: hulinare@bemberg.com.ar Subject: Naked City Date: 31 Mar 1998 15:07:39 -0300 I think that if anyone sounds critical of the listeners, nothing would happen!. Personally, I wouldn't be bothered. Not only this smells as a cinical side, but it is! What is the difference between a Naked City DEVOTED FAN fan and another group like Nirvana, for example? Dogmatism goes nowhere. Hugo, from Argentina - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: mike osborne Date: 31 Mar 1998 10:59:19 -0800 On Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:47:25 -0500 ROLAND JOST wrote: > > i hope this is not too off-topic here! does anyone know what mike osborne > is doing these days? i heard he's having some health problems (alcohol Wow! Mike Osborne has been out of the music business for almost 20 years! I never heard anything about alcohol, but yes, he has been seriously ill and stopped all music activities. Once in a while there is a rumour of him doing a come back but nothing had happened yet. This is really sad because he was such a treat and a warm alto player. > related). does he play at all? live? any new records? i'd appreciate some > info. if you think this doesn't belong here, please e-mail me privately. > thanks. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: peter_risser@cinfin.com Subject: Re[2]: Naked City Date: 31 Mar 1998 13:23:06 UT I definitely think that's part of it. Also, Torture Garden came out on Shimmy, I think AFTER Naked City came out on Elektra. So, my guess is, Naked City cut all these little baby thrash tracks, then included a few on that first album. Then, maybe he wanted to release the full album as a suite of those things. Then, I imagine, after people bitched that the other bits of Torture Garden weren't avbailable on CD, he decided to put the rest on a disc where people could listen to them. (Also, Torture Garden probably went promptly out of print, like most other Shimmy releases.) Anyway, the final installment was the re-release of the complete Torture Garden in the Black Box set. And yeah, all the tunes are from the original Torture Garden performance. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu Subject: Re[2]: mike osborne Date: 31 Mar 1998 14:00:12 -0500 I'd been wondering about this also after having recently listened to that old SOS album on Ogun. Much of it holds up pretty well, though some drifts into Roger Powell-y territory (anyone here remember 'Cosmic Furnace' from around 1972?) Also wondered about the whereabouts/doings of Alan Skidmore. Any recommendations for other Osborne work? Brian Olewnick ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ Author: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> at SMTP-for-MSSM On Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:47:25 -0500 ROLAND JOST wrote: > > i hope this is not too off-topic here! does anyone know what mike osborne > is doing these days? i heard he's having some health problems (alcohol Wow! Mike Osborne has been out of the music business for almost 20 years! I never heard anything about alcohol, but yes, he has been seriously ill and stopped all music activities. Once in a while there is a rumour of him doing a come back but nothing had happened yet. This is really sad because he was such a treat and a warm alto player. > related). does he play at all? live? any new records? i'd appreciate some > info. if you think this doesn't belong here, please e-mail me privately. > thanks. Patrice. - - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Jason Tors <jtors@usinteractive.com> Subject: Naked City Date: 31 Mar 1998 13:17:26 -0700 I just borrowed all of the Naked City recording from a work-mate. I have to say that the one that appeals to me the most is Heretic. I guess it is a soundtrack to a movie about spanking or soft core S&M. I think that the collaboration between all players and especially the duet with Eye and Zorn. I never liked his "voice" stuff till I heard this album, is really is amazing especially when he gets super gutteral. Heretic seems to hold together more effectively than the other albums which are contrast compositions, this by no means is a critisism, the man obviously knows what he is doing. Absinthe is my cat's least favorite album. Her ears nearly spin off her head, I guess she picks up on some more frequencies than I do. I was playing Absinthe relatively loud last night as I was writing, she ran from one end of the apartment to the other crashing into two walls in the process. I put on some masada instead, she needs a little time to get adjusted to some of Zorn's audio collages. JT - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ulrich Gernert <Ulrich.Gernert@TU-Berlin.de> Subject: Where to get the Bible Launcher CD Date: 31 Mar 1998 14:59:55 +0200 Does anyone know, where I can bye Zorns "Bible Launcher" CD, published on Radical House Records? A distributor not so far away from Berlin, Germany. Thanks Ulrich Gernert - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Glenn Lea <glenn_lea@avid.com> Subject: Re: Naked City Date: 31 Mar 1998 13:02:40 -0500 peter_risser@cinfin.com wrote: > > About Black Box: > > I remember Torture Garden fitting easily onto one side of a 90 minute tape (ie: > under 45 minutes). I also thought LengTche was under 30 minutes. Couldn't he > have pressed them both to the same disc? Although, 20 bucks for two short discs > isn't too bad, I guess. Just wondering. Torture Garden runs about 20-25 minutes. Sure, they would've fit on one CD. But then he couldn't have called it Black Box. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Yin Pin <yinpin@pop6.jaring.my> Subject: FS: Frank Wright Trio CD (ESP 1023) - sealed Date: 01 Apr 1998 05:18:00 +0000 pardon the spam, i have the above release still in its plastic wrap for sale or trade. -pin - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Re[2]: mike osborne Date: 31 Mar 1998 13:14:24 -0800 On Tue, 31 Mar 98 14:00:12 -0500 brian_olewnick@smtplink.mssm.edu wrote: > > > I'd been wondering about this also after having recently listened to > that old SOS album on Ogun. Much of it holds up pretty well, though > some drifts into Roger Powell-y territory (anyone here remember > 'Cosmic Furnace' from around 1972?) Also wondered about the > whereabouts/doings of Alan Skidmore. > > Any recommendations for other Osborne work? Easy question to answer, two of his best records have recently reissued: *** - OUTBACK: Mike Osborne 1/ So It Is (Mike Osborne) 2/ Outback (Mike Osborne) Mike Osborne: alto; Harry Beckett: trumpet; Louis Moholo: drums; Harry Miller: bass; Chris McGregor: piano. 1994 - Future Music Records (UK), FMR CD07-031994 (CD) *** - SHAPES: Mike Osborne 1/ Shapes (part 1 + part 2) (Osborne) 19:40 2/ Straight Jack (Osborne) 7:05 3/ Double It (Osborne) 14:00 Recorded in February 1972 at Pye Studios John Surman: soprano, baritone saxophone; Mike Osborne: alto; Alan Skidmore: tenor; Harry Miller: double bass; Earl Freeman: double bass; Louis Moholo: drums. 1994 - Future Music (UK), FMR CD10 - 021995 (CD) Patrice (still waiting for the reissue of his favorite -- MARCEL'S MUSE) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: William York <wyork@email.unc.edu> Subject: Re: Naked City/Sinatra/Webern Date: 31 Mar 1998 16:34:00 -0500 (EST) Having only heard this song once its hard for me to get too specific, but when I was listening to it, it seemed to be kind of loungy serial hybrid, or at least it reminded me of both of those folks. Wh else is listed there, is it Morton Feldman? I've thought about buying the album but I'll probably get Bar Kokhba or Circle Maker instead. Also, one song that I think is repaeted in 4 cases is NY Flat Top box, I think this one is on Grand Guignol unlike the sandwiched songs from the First Naked City. As for prices, you can get the Shimmy Disc version (down here) for 11.99, Black Box for 16.99, Grand Guignol usually 17.99 or 18.99, and the Naked City album pops up used pretty often, being a point of entry album, and that's how I got it. So I guess you have options. torture garden is only 26 minutes, but considering the work that had to have gone into it that is fairly reasonable. Plus I usually feel sufficiently pummeled and steamrolled after listening to it, so I don't know that any thing else is needed time-wise. Opinions on Bar Kokhba vs. Circle Maker? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Naked City Date: 31 Mar 1998 13:39:56 -0800 On Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:23:06 UT peter_risser@cinfin.com wrote: > > I definitely think that's part of it. Also, Torture Garden came out on Shimmy, > I think AFTER Naked City came out on Elektra. So, my guess is, Naked City cut > all these little baby thrash tracks, then included a few on that first album. > Then, maybe he wanted to release the full album as a suite of those things. > Then, I imagine, after people bitched that the other bits of Torture Garden > weren't avbailable on CD, he decided to put the rest on a disc where people > could listen to them. (Also, Torture Garden probably went promptly out of > print, like most other Shimmy releases.) Anyway, the final installment was the > re-release of the complete Torture Garden in the Black Box set. Just a little precision that I think has not been mentioned. Nonesuch refused to put out the material of TORTURE GARDEN on their label. Because they refused to put out the music, they could not really prevent Zorn from getting it released somewhere else. It seems that they found an agree- ment: "you can put it in the US, but not on CD". This explains why Shimmy only put out vinyl/tape pressings of the record. Later on (1991), Toy's Factory released it on CD, which was OK with Nonesuch. Then the contract between Zorn and Nonesuch broke (around 1993) and Shimmy reissued a CD version of TORTURE GARDEN. More: late 1994, Zorn got in trouble with the CAAAV (Committee Against Anti- Asian Violence). Two of his records (TORTURE GARDEN and LENG TCH'E) were accused of giving a bad image of Asian people. Under pressure from this group, Zorn decided to remove these records from the stores. He asked to Shimmy to stop selling it. This is at that time that he came up with the idea of releasing them in a PC design :-). Now, that does not explain why Shimmy made the record available again in October 96 (when the BLACK BOX was already announced)... Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: Re[2]: mike osborne Date: 31 Mar 1998 16:39:07 -0500 (EST) On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > Easy question to answer, two of his best records have recently reissued: > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *** - OUTBACK: Mike Osborne > > 1/ So It Is (Mike Osborne) > 2/ Outback (Mike Osborne) > > Mike Osborne: alto; Harry Beckett: trumpet; Louis Moholo: drums; Harry > Miller: bass; Chris McGregor: piano. > > 1994 - Future Music Records (UK), FMR CD07-031994 (CD) Patrice: What is the real release date on this. Not 1994, surely. And how long are the tracks? > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > *** - SHAPES: Mike Osborne > > 1/ Shapes (part 1 + part 2) (Osborne) 19:40 > 2/ Straight Jack (Osborne) 7:05 > 3/ Double It (Osborne) 14:00 > > Recorded in February 1972 at Pye Studios > > John Surman: soprano, baritone saxophone; Mike Osborne: alto; Alan Skidmore: > tenor; Harry Miller: double bass; Earl Freeman: double bass; Louis Moholo: > drums. > > 1994 - Future Music (UK), FMR CD10 - 021995 (CD) > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Now this is interesting, especially with the participation of Earl Freeman, another American avant gardist of the second wave who played with Noah Howard and Archie Shepp. If I'm not mistaken it was William Parker who wrote a tune honoring him, called "Goggles". All around us the second generation new thing players are passing on -- most recently Denis Charles and Arthur Jones. Considering that their explorations and non-conformity influenced Zorn, maybe we could spend more time discussing their achievements here. Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net > Patrice (still waiting for the reissue of his favorite -- MARCEL'S > MUSE) > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Ken Waxman <cj649@freenet.toronto.on.ca> Subject: Re: mike osborne Date: 31 Mar 1998 16:22:30 -0500 (EST) From what I've gathered over the years, I think the problems were that of a worsening mental condition. Some have fought themselves back from the brink. Tom Harrell, for instance, is a acknowledged schizophrenic who keeps his "mania" under control with medication. So maybe there's hope for Mike Ken Waxman cj649@torfree.net On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > On Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:47:25 -0500 ROLAND JOST wrote: > > > > i hope this is not too off-topic here! does anyone know what mike osborne > > is doing these days? i heard he's having some health problems (alcohol > > Wow! Mike Osborne has been out of the music business for almost 20 years! > > I never heard anything about alcohol, but yes, he has been seriously ill and > stopped all music activities. Once in a while there is a rumour of him doing > a come back but nothing had happened yet. > > This is really sad because he was such a treat and a warm alto player. > > > related). does he play at all? live? any new records? i'd appreciate some > > info. if you think this doesn't belong here, please e-mail me privately. > > thanks. > > Patrice. > > - > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Re[2]: mike osborne Date: 31 Mar 1998 13:46:57 -0800 On Tue, 31 Mar 1998 16:39:07 -0500 (EST) Ken Waxman wrote: > > On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > > > > > Easy question to answer, two of his best records have recently reissued: > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > *** - OUTBACK: Mike Osborne > > > > 1/ So It Is (Mike Osborne) > > 2/ Outback (Mike Osborne) > > > > Mike Osborne: alto; Harry Beckett: trumpet; Louis Moholo: drums; Harry > > Miller: bass; Chris McGregor: piano. > > > > 1994 - Future Music Records (UK), FMR CD07-031994 (CD) > > > Patrice: What is the real release date on this. Not 1994, surely. And how > long are the tracks? 1994 for the reissue. Original? I guess early '70s. This record used (and still) to be of collector status (always subject to tough bargain on the Mole Jazz auction list!). > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > > *** - SHAPES: Mike Osborne > > > > 1/ Shapes (part 1 + part 2) (Osborne) 19:40 > > 2/ Straight Jack (Osborne) 7:05 > > 3/ Double It (Osborne) 14:00 > > > > Recorded in February 1972 at Pye Studios > > > > John Surman: soprano, baritone saxophone; Mike Osborne: alto; Alan Skidmore: > > tenor; Harry Miller: double bass; Earl Freeman: double bass; Louis Moholo: > > drums. > > > > 1994 - Future Music (UK), FMR CD10 - 021995 (CD) > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > Now this is interesting, especially with the participation of Earl > Freeman, another American avant gardist of the second wave who played > with Noah Howard and Archie Shepp. If I'm not mistaken it was William > Parker who wrote a tune honoring him, called "Goggles". > > All around us the second generation new thing players are passing on -- > most recently Denis Charles and Arthur Jones. Considering that their ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Arthur Jones? When? I never heard about his death. > explorations and non-conformity influenced Zorn, maybe we could spend > more time discussing their achievements here. Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Naked City Date: 31 Mar 1998 13:49:10 -0800 (PST) On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > Now, that does not explain why Shimmy made the record available again in > October 96 (when the BLACK BOX was already announced)... ...or why Shimmy re-issued CDs of Ruins' "Stonehenge" (with that horrible psychedelic color scheme) and "Burning Stone" just after Magaibutsu released their own remastered versions? there is no understanding Krammer. hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Naked City Date: 31 Mar 1998 14:15:21 -0800 On Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:49:10 -0800 (PST) SUGAR in their vitamins? wrote: > > > On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > > > Now, that does not explain why Shimmy made the record available again in > > October 96 (when the BLACK BOX was already announced)... > > ...or why Shimmy re-issued CDs > of Ruins' "Stonehenge" (with that > horrible psychedelic color scheme) > and "Burning Stone" just after > Magaibutsu released their own > remastered versions? > > there is no understanding Krammer. But now that Shimmy is owned by KF, everything should be under control, shouldn't they ? :-). Patrice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Naked City Date: 31 Mar 1998 14:34:05 -0800 (PST) On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Patrice L. Roussel wrote: > But now that Shimmy is owned by KF, everything should be under control, > shouldn't they ? :-). will KF pay all the artists Krammer never did? hasta. Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: al.t@mtnhdw.com (Al T) Subject: re: Turkish music Date: 31 Mar 1998 23:50:22 GMT Just to dovetail w/ other topics: Talip Ozkan - The Dark Fire - produced by Bill Laswell & Nicky Skopelitis. Good stuff - no oud though - saz, precussion, voice. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au> Subject: Re: Naked City/Sinatra/Webern Date: 01 Apr 1998 10:29:08 +1000 > Also, one song that I think is repaeted in 4 cases is NY Flat Top box, I > think this one is on Grand Guignol unlike the sandwiched songs from the > First Naked City. Well it's on Naked City, but what was your point? By the way, why does everyone keep saying the song are repeated 4 times? The songs are only on two albums. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Dennis Charles and Arthur Jones Date: 31 Mar 1998 20:04:27 -0500 (EST) On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Ken Waxman wrote: > All around us the second generation new thing players are passing on -- > most recently Denis Charles I hadn't heard this. What a wonderful, underappreciated drummer. > and Arthur Jones. Considering that their > explorations and non-conformity influenced Zorn, maybe we could spend > more time discussing their achievements here. I'm sure it would be very educational for many of us. For example, I'm ashamed to admit I don't know who Arthur Jones is. Could someone enlighten me? Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rich Williams <punkjazz@snet.net> Subject: Re: Dennis Charles and Arthur Jones Date: 31 Mar 1998 20:36:04 -0500 On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Ken Waxman wrote: > All around us the second generation new thing players are passing on -- > most recently Denis Charles > and Arthur Jones. Considering that their > explorations and non-conformity influenced Zorn, maybe we could spend > more time discussing their achievements here. I hadn't heard that Dennis passed, how sad. His long standing partnership with bassist Wilbur Morris constituted one of my favorite rhythm sections. Anyone who is so inclined should check out their work on Billy Bang's early 80's LP's on Soul Note. Rich - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> Subject: Re: Gone, Just Like a Train Date: 31 Mar 1998 20:32:17 -0500 (EST) On Mon, 30 Mar 1998, Jamie F Graves wrote: > All in all, its a great album, but I'm a little dissapointed in Bill. > Excellent playing from all three (Viktor Kraus and Jim Keltner are > phenomenal) but it doesn't seem all that new for Bill. Any other thoughts > on this disc? Like you, I was at first disappointed with this one. I like it better every time I listen to it, but I've had trouble caring enough about it to drag it out much. It's masterfully subtle music, but I'd have liked more superficial dazzle. (I'm reminded of my reaction to James Joyce's work, which I also find very rewarding but still not worth the effort. Of course, the CD may continue to grow on me. And all of this probably says more about me than about the record.) That being said, I thought this was a pretty gutsy move for Frisell. It seems like an attempt to cut away all the tricksy effects and artificial concepts his audience (including me) love, and get down to just some serious playing. It leaves him very exposed. Chris Hamilton - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Corey Marc Fogel <mecorey@imap3.asu.edu> Subject: Re: 20 essential records Date: 31 Mar 1998 19:22:43 -0700 (MST) On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, BJOERN wrote: > 1. PLEASE ANSWER PRIVATELY!!!! i am sure several people would be pissed > if you send the answers to the list THANX why privately? maybe you should ask the list first, since the most common topic is everyone's opinions of different albums. I'm sure more than half the people, including myself, are somewhat interested in knowing what others would place in a category such as "20 essential records"....or whatever; and had you not prefaced the question with that "!!!!!" request, I'm sure no one would have said "let's stop this thread immediately!" so...I wanna know. everyone tell me. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Rob DeNunzio <zorn@gladstone.uoregon.edu> Subject: filmworks viii Date: 31 Mar 1998 19:39:34 -0800 I just picked this one up and I gotta say, I'm totally enthralled by the contrasts of the two projects documented on it. Has anyone out there got any thoughts on this one? - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> Subject: Re: 20 essential records Date: 01 Apr 1998 13:09:10 +1000 (EST) On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Corey Marc Fogel wrote: > On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, BJOERN wrote: > > > 1. PLEASE ANSWER PRIVATELY!!!! i am sure several people would be pissed > > if you send the answers to the list THANX > > why privately? maybe you should ask the list first, since the most common > topic is everyone's opinions of different albums. I'm sure more than > half the people, including myself, are somewhat interested in knowing what > others would place in a category such as "20 essential records"....or > whatever; and had you not prefaced the question with that "!!!!!" request, > I'm sure no one would have said "let's stop this thread immediately!" > > so...I wanna know. everyone tell me. > I'd be interested myself. I imagine it'd be some kinda trial for most people to have that few. For my part; some of my favourite records are available on CD, but I prefer them on vinyl because 1) it affords greater enjoyment of the cover graphics 2) just out of, err: willful perversity ;-) - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Glenn A" <gastarit@comm.net> Subject: Re: Dennis Charles and Arthur Jones Date: 31 Mar 1998 10:14:35 +0000 > Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 20:04:27 -0500 (EST) > From: Christopher Hamilton <chhst9+@pitt.edu> > Cc: zorn-list@xmission.com > Subject: Re: Dennis Charles and Arthur Jones > > > > > > All around us the second generation new thing players are passing on -- > > most recently Denis Charles > > I hadn't heard this. What a wonderful, underappreciated drummer. > > >Is this the same Denis Charles who played with Steve Lacy ? I'm thinking of that Hat Art release of improvised Monk tunes along with trombonist Rosewell Rudd... glenn > > - > > > - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "Keith McMullen" <mcmullenm@vcss.k12.ca.us> Subject: 20 Date: 31 Mar 1998 20:01:21 -0800 TROUT MASK REPLICA ELECTRIC LADYLAND EINSTEIN ON THE BEACH BINAURALITY THE MARZ COMBO NAKED CITY LARKS TONGUES IN ASPIC I'M YOUR MAN PANGAEA BLUE NOTE DON CHERRY LA LEGENDE D'EER DELUSION OF THE FURY INDETERMINACY QUARTET DORTMUND MINGUS AT ANTIBES CHAOS TOTALE URSONATE SUNRISE IN DIFFERENT DIMENSIONS TESTAMENT THE WAY MONSTER - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey) Subject: Re: Fire label query Date: 31 Mar 1998 23:27:34 -0500 James Douglas Knox <s9606487@minyos.its.rmit.EDU.AU> wrote: >Does anything know anything about an Icelandic label called Fire? The label is called Fire Inc., and I don't know much. They're new. >Apparently they were planning to release some 10" records by >Jim O'Rourke, nd Stock, Hausen and Walkman. The O'Rourke record has been out since Feb. or so ... It's called "Please Note Our Failure" and it's a plunderphonics sorta thing. Kim's Underground (Bleeker/La Guardia) in NYC had copies when I was there (I s'pose that doesn't help you in Australia ...), and you can order it from Bent Crayon (www.bentcrayon.com), among other places. Not sure about the SH & W record ... -Patrick - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Paul Chavez <pmchavez@earthlink.net> Subject: New stuff in question Date: 31 Mar 1998 23:34:19 -0600 Hi out there. First, thanks for the info on the movie "Clean, Shaven". That was the movie I was referring to! At least I know I can rent it on video and dub the audio from there. I was going over some new discs to buy and was curious to get feedback on the following titles: Field Recordings in Ghana - ? Is this more new age crap or authentic field work? Eyvind Kang - ? What in the world is this like? Conrad Schnitzler - ? Who is this and what are his recent recordings like? That's all. Hope someone knows about these releases/people. - ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: flamerik@best.ms.philips.com Subject: Re: Peter Thomas Date: 01 Apr 1998 08:37:27 +0200 > I just bought the new Pulp single "This is Hardcore," and there is a sample > of Thomas's "Bolero on the Moon Rocks" on it. Any comments on the Bolero > record? The sample sounds great. That's track number six from the "Raumpatrouille" soundtrack - music scored for a Bavarian sci-fi TV series about the space ship Orion that actually predates Star Trek. In my opinion, it categorizes under "best film music ever recorded". There's a CD re-issue out, with three extra tracks, but I was fortunate to find the original record from 1966 about a year ago. I guess it'll be hard to get now that Peter Thomas compilations are coming out left and right. Mr. Bungle used to play a track of this album live, "Love In Space" (which is essentially a piece for saxophone and bass, with blasts of percussive noise inserted). Frankco. -