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Internet Message Format | 2002-02-28 | 1MB

From: jmcazurin <[e-mail]>
Subject: steel drum recommendations?
Date: 01 Feb 2002 15:01:21 +0800


Hello all -

   While in NYC recently I had the pleasure of checking out a lot of the
street and subway musicians. One of them was a steel drum player who would
play blues, R&B, reggae, Stevie Wonder tunes, and so on, either with other
musicians or along to a tape. It seemed to me that he was a really good
soloist and that the pans are very well suited to the blues and R&B.

   Can anyone recommend good music with steel drums? I'm interested in
hearing them both in the original context (calypso, I think? please correct
me if I'm wrong) and in other styles.

   Thanks very much in advance!

mikah



Sometimes we construct spiderwebs
of smoke and saliva, fragile thought packets.
Leave thinking to the one who gave intelligence.
In silence, there is eloquence.
Stop weaving, and watch how the pattern improves.
- Rumi


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: punk jazz
Date: 01 Feb 2002 02:22:25 EST

In a message dated 1/31/02 1:23:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 22:15:49 EST  [e-mail] wrote:
 >
 > And one French outfit that I can't quite squeeze out...

 Catalog with Jac Berrocal?
  >>

Good guess, but not the one I was thinking of.

AAARGH! (BAM BAM!!) <= sound of head beating against the table

=dg=

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: west masada
Date: 01 Feb 2002 02:31:30 EST

<< The lineup you describe below was videotaped at the Great Amearican Music
 Hall in SF early 1994.  Zorn, of course, made the videographer swear never
 to release it.

 There was one more west coast Masada show by a different lineup--much more
 recent (1996 or 97?). They played at Slim's--scott amendola, john schott,
 and bassist john shifflet, and probably others.

 --graham connah >>

That GAMH show was really fine.  I remember Zorn kept making like he was
worshipping Kenny Wolleson.  Zorn and Goldberg did work very well together.
I remember another Masada show at the Stork Club in Oakland with Douglas
replacing Goldberg.  They were very high energy that night. I remember when
Zorn came on he passed out free sandwiches.

>>I have a vague memory of that group being recorded for broadcast (on
KPFA, maybe?), but playing Herbie Nichols compositions.  Anybody have a
copy?  I think the show would have been at New Langton Arts in SF.

Jim<<

I think that show was a Ben Goldberg project only that didn't have anything
to do with Zorn.

Also I thing Skip mentioned a Goldberg/Eskelin duo in Berkeley.  I think they
played in a 4tet many years ago at Beanbenders.  That was Eskelin's 1st visit
to the Bay Area in a long time, maybe ever. Also, there was a Goldberg/Schott
duo opening for Eskelin/Parkins/Black a couple of years ago at Tuva.  If
anyone knows of other shows, I'd like to hear about it.  Cheers,
                                        John Threadgould
                                        np  John Hollenbeck- The Claudia
Quintet

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From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: abstract hip hop
Date: 01 Feb 2002 00:09:46 -0800

is it me, or has nobody mentioned mixmaster mike? we did two gigs together,
and he wiped me out both nights.  just brilliant.

also, on the jurassic 5 "quality control" disc, there's a cut chemist solo
cut (something about jazz or swing in the title) that is positively cosmic.

for those around LA, marvski -- a former j5 cat -- is worth seeing.  he's
actually steve fowler's (fowler bros) son.  also, he's a burning turntablist
and a very cool rapper.

skip h



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From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: david bowie (slight return)
Date: 01 Feb 2002 09:17:22 +0100


> The first 3 Eno Albums (the first is the most glam rock)
You mean the first three POP Eno albums, his first being 'no pussyfooting',
, a duet with robert fripp - not that much glam. That being said, all those
albums are really great, some of the mest music made for the 30 years IMHO.
'Another green World', an absolute beast, should be the best starting point
(yet, when i think wbut it, this album does not sound that much glam -
rather minimalist/ pop for childern that are not very bright). Brian Eno is,
as we all know,  god.
Marcin



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From: "carlos torres" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Flying Vandermarks
Date: 01 Feb 2002 00:34:31 -0800

>Hmmm, you're on the Spockmorgue list, right Davy?!?

how can i get on this list?

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


-



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From: drool puddle kittens <[e-mail]>
Subject: zorn does herbie nichols
Date: 01 Feb 2002 01:17:20 -0800

the concert you recall was at Yoshi's in oakland......zorn, ben goldberg,
kenny wollesen, john schott, and a bassist named richard saunders.
probably early 1993.

(other shows in the same  (NEA-funded)series were indeed at new langton
arts--for example, goldberg and wollesen with bobby bradford, playing john
carter tunes.)

--graham connah

> From: "J Kan" <[e-mail]>

>> I'm assuming folks are referring to the
>> Zorn (sax, natch), Ben Goldberg (clarinet),
>> Trevor Dunn (bass), and Kenny Wolleson (drums)
>> incarnation of Masada. [...]
>
>> Sadly, I've never heard any recordings of
>> that line up.
>
> I have a vague memory of that group being recorded for broadcast (on
> KPFA, maybe?), but playing Herbie Nichols compositions.  Anybody have a
> copy?  I think the show would have been at New Langton Arts in SF.
>
> Jim


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From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: d-mented R&B/hip hop
Date: 09 Jan 2002 16:18:29 +0100

>

>
>
> Somebody was dissing French hip hop, and for all I know, the rest of it
> sucks, but I really like MC Solaar.
>
> Parry
>
> -

Hey, your open-mindedness is all to your credit!
I personally find the lack of originality, and especially the lack of swing,
of voice, to be exasperating in most French pop, including hip-hop.
There are a few rare exceptions for pop/rock, but I have'nt heard any yet in
hip-hop.
Mc Solaar seems to rap with the left side of his brain. Veeery exciting...

Cheers,
DY


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From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: OT Neptunes etc. (was Re: d-mented R&B/hip hop)
Date: 01 Feb 2002 06:57:10 -0500

* [e-mail]:
>The Neptunes, of Ol' Dirty Bastard fame (or is it Dirty Ol',
>I never could be bothered to get it straight),

It's Ol' Dirty Bastard. :)

The Neptunes are Chad Hugo and Pharrell Williams, the duo behind the
brilliant N*E*R*D LP, "In Search Of...", and various tunes by Jay-Z,
Mystikal, Beenie Man, Ludacris, Britney (gasp) etc., and yes, Kelis :).

>produced a brilliantly deranged hip-hop infused album by R&B singer
>Kelis a couple years ago.  Great beats, and all kind of production
>and lyrical weirdness.  The first time I heard the single, "Caught
>Out There," I just stood in the aisle of the record store and laughed.
>It's way past angry, the chorus is Kelis hollering "I hate you so much
>right now" and all the little things going on in the production are
>full of menace -- but then her voice on the verses is so gorgeous. It
>makes for a really bizarre contrast.  I love the album so much, I may
>>eventually actually make myself listen to a whole  Ol' Dirty Bastard
>album.

Ah yes, Kelis.  I laughed at that song too, and couldn't stand it when
it was everywhere, but the Neptunes' production is what brought me back=
.
As you're a fan, I recommend you pick up a US copy of the N*E*R*D album
when it drops (March 12th now, or is it out already?) if you want to
hear what they can really do.  The previous version (in the UK, and
elsewhere) was altered/unfinished, and released without their
permission.

Ol' Dirty's first record would be the one to check out, but be prepared
for some oddness/wackiness.  I didn't spend much time with the second,
but that was the case with most Wu-related follow-up output ...

>Somebody was dissing French hip hop, and for all I know, the rest of
>it sucks, but I really like MC Solaar.

Early Solaar is the best (first couple of LPs), but there's much more
there if you look further.  He's simply the name that first made it
internationally.  If interested, check out the whole Marseilles scene
[the main group IAM, and spin off work from Shurik'n, Imhotep,
Akhenaton & Freeman (the last two don't move me as much as the first)]
plus related groups/artists like Faf Larage, 3eme Oeil, Intik (Arabic/
Algerian connection, and a nice reggae vibe), Oxmo Puccino, Fonky
Family etc.  There's also Paris-based stuff like Supreme NTM, and
Minist=E8re Amer.


-Patrick


NP: Helena "Azul"
OD: Coralie Cl=E9ment "Salle des pas perdus"



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From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: OT Re: French rap
Date: 01 Feb 2002 06:56:59 -0500

>>BTW, Duncan, since you're in France ... I should point out that
>>there are some French acts in the above list. :)

* duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>:
>Many thanx for the rich hip-hop recommendations, I'll definitely
>go shopping soon (will look for cassettes!)

>As for French rap, though, I happen to be allergic... (what I heard
>is to American rap what your corner deli's "French dressing" is to
>French cuisine...)

Well, I don't know what you heard, but judging from what you've said
you tend to like, and some of the big names that have bored you (Ice
Cube, Wu-Tang, Snoop Dog, Ice-T etc.), your cut off is definitely
different than mine. ;-)  NWA, the first 2 Ice Cube LPs, the first
Snoop Dog, Dre's "Chronic" (and I like Clinton/P-Funk), the first
Wu & GZA/Genius, and even some mid-period Ice-T are all near classic
in my book.  If you're willing to try (again), or perhaps something
you haven't heard ... give a listen to Solaar's first 2 LPs, IAM's
2nd and 3rd, Faf Larage's "C'est ma cause", Shurik'n's "O=F9 je vis",
Intik's "S/T", maybe 3eme Oeil's LP and Oxmo Puccino's "Op=E9ra puccino=
"
(it helps to like Biggie :) or mid-period Supreme NTM.  Probably not
your cup of tea in the end, but who knows.


-Patrick


NP: Helena "Azul"
OD: Coralie Cl=E9ment "Salle des pas perdus"






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From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: OT Re: freestyle fellowship/saul williams
Date: 01 Feb 2002 06:57:07 -0500

* aaron chua <[e-mail]>:
>also you should check out stuff w/ mikah 9 from the
>free stylefellowship. a recent release - ''timetable''
>is mostly archival stuff  (radio spots parties etc)
>but is still incredible.includes  the amazing piece
>w/ daddy kev of the lost angels ep.

I agree.  I heartily recommend all the FF stuff (even their new
material), as well as solo work from Aceyalone, Mikah 9, P.E.A.C.E.
etc.  The "Souldoubt" LP with Daddy Kev & (damn, I'm blanking ...)
is also nice!

>what do people think of the new saul williams.

If by "new" you mean "Amethyst Rock Star", I think it's brilliant,
and was a breath of fresh air when I was spinning it non-stop
early last year. :)  I've seen Saul live with his band and they
can certainly "bring the noise/funk/whathaveyou".  His lyrics/
poetry and delivery are unmatched for me, although some of Mike
Ladd's stuff comes close.  The disc was produced by Rick Rubin,
and it shows.  The track with Krust ("Coded Language") came out
earlier and is the centerpiece of his LP of the same name _and_
(I would argue_ "Amethyst...".  A fave singer of mine, Esthero,
also makes a nice appearance.  Saul had some stuff out earlier
on Big Dada (as 12"s, and on their first hip hop comp.) that's
worth it if you find yourself returning to "Amethyst...".


-Patrick


NP: Helena "Azul"
OD: Coralie Cl=E9ment "Salle des pas perdus"




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From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: OT Re: hip hop/ninja/click-hop
Date: 01 Feb 2002 06:57:03 -0500

* "Andrew" <[e-mail]>:
>Ninja Tune really puts out great records. I thought that the recent
>bonobo was one of the weaker things they've released in a while, but
>Flanger's "outer space/inner space" is SO DAMN GOOD! Has anyone heard
>it? It's seriously funky...some compare it to Hancock's really out
>there stuff.

Haven't made up my mind about the Bonobo, but I agree on the Flanger!
Pick up all three if you don't have them already ...

>I'm not that impressed with the Big Dada stuff.....Roots Manuva's
>"run come save me" was weak, and I've never been a fan of Mike Ladd
>or the Infesticons.

Wow, really?  Another area where we differ then. ;)  I enjoy both
Roots Manuva albums, as well as all New Flesh/Part 2, Gamma/Juice
Aleem, Ty, plus other Brit-ish like Blak Twang, Phi-Life Cypher,
Skitz, Taskforce, Braintax, Mark B/Blade, Rodney P, as well as the
collabs Ice & TA have done with rappers.  Mike Ladd's first record
on Mercury, his "...Afterfuture", and the Infesticons are staples
here.  Didn't much care for his live record though.

>I'm also really interested in the latest trend- "Click Hop"- basically=
,
>glitchy, crunchy hip hop. Prefuse 73 and the Tigerbeat 6 and Mille
>Plateaux crowd have picked up on it.....

Some of what I've heard that would fall into this category (all these
horrible names for new "genres"!) is OK, but I'm wondering if the
style will become more defined.  Everything bleeds into something
else these days (which is fine, but) ...  Kid 606 has always been
a joke to me (maybe that's what he's going for?), which has led me
to ignore other Tigerbeat stuff (I should try Cex again though ;-b).
I've got a fair bit of older MP/Force Inc. stuff, but haven't paid
attention to them lately (with the exception of the new K=F6ner).

>MP recently put out a "click hop" compilation called "electric ladylan=
d"
>or something like that, and it was VERY disappointing. It was mostly
>>glitch-house and more drum-n-bass type stuff....no real "click hop."

Haven't heard this and I doubt I will.  I had my days with the "Macro
Dub", illbient, and original "Electric Ladyland" comps back in the
mid-90's so I'm kind of "off it" now.  I'm not positive, but I thought
the idea of this new "EL" comp. was to have glitch/clicks 'n' cuts/
tech/minimal house folks _remix_ the older dub-hop/distorto-d'n'b
crowd ... can't remember who's on it so I don't know for sure.


-Patrick


NP: Helena "Azul"
OD: Coralie Cl=E9ment "Salle des pas perdus"




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From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: OT Doublemoon (was: Re: Burhan Ocal and Jamaaladeen Tacuma)
Date: 01 Feb 2002 06:56:56 -0500

* "Brummer, Charlie" <[e-mail]>:
>A while back, someone mentioned a new CD "Groove alla Turca" by Burhan
>Ocal and Jamaaladeen Tacuma.  I've been unable to track it down anywhe=
re.
>Does anyone know of a source?

I'm inquiring about the Doublemoon press below, but I thought the UK (?=
)
version on "Birds & B-(something?)" (cat: BB2001) was well distributed.
I've seen that one (ugly multicolored digipak) in chain stores in Canad=
a
and the eastern US.  If it isn't at amazon.com/cdnow.com, you might try
looking it up at hmv.com, hmv.co.uk, amazon.co.uk, amazon.de, amazon.fr
etc. etc.

* Perfect Sound Forever <[e-mail]>
>That's out on Doublemoon Records:
>http://www.doublemoon.com.tr/eng/home_eng.htm
>http://www.doublemoon.com.tr/eng/catalogue/catalouge.htm
>Amazon sells some of his other releases but not this one

Right, so does anyone know where one can get the Doublemoon catalog
outside of ordering from Turkey?  I have a few titles that I've been
lucky to find, and have seen _a few_ as imports in North American
stores, but nothing else.  The artwork for the the UK (?) issue
of "Groove alla Turca" that seems to be everywhere is horrendous,
so I wouldn't mind the original to replace my CD-R copy ...

Thanks


-Patrick


NP: Helena "Azul"
OD: Coralie Cl=E9ment "Salle des pas perdus"



-



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From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: OT Re: abstract hip hop
Date: 01 Feb 2002 06:57:13 -0500

* "Andrew" <[e-mail]>:
>I'm glad that everyone on here digs the Clouddead record....I love it.
>Mush's distro is pretty poor, though....you can hardly order anything
>from www.dirtyloop.com ......I wonder if they'll work out a better dea=
l?

Well, not _everyone_ loves it that much. ;-b  I may have a more
deep-rooted problem with Anticon and hype though, so ...

It is bad that Mush can't get it's product out, but I would argue
that because _everyone_ should be able to hear Aesop's "Float",
and not so much because of the cDEAD disc/10"s.  Anyway, I think
the rest of the world may have it better (for once) since the
cDEAD is on Big Dada outside the US, and is _everywhere_ I look. :)


-P


NP: Helena "Azul"
OD: Coralie Cl=E9ment "Salle des pas perdus"



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From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: jazz punk
Date: 01 Feb 2002 08:18:58 -0500

on 1/30/02 5:23 PM, Skip Heller at [e-mail] wrote:

>
>
>> From: Mike Rizzi <[e-mail]>
>> Reply-To: [e-mail]
>> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 13:44:46 -0800 (PST)
>> To: [e-mail]
>> Cc: [e-mail]
>> Subject: Re: jazz punk
>>
>> To me, when I hear jazz punk, I think Minutemen
>> (they were an early SST band). I still love their
>> music after all these years, and I clearly remember
>> when D. Boon died. <sniff>
>>
>> mike
>>
> Still LA's greatest contribution via punk rock (and, before anybody counters
> with the  obvious, at least one member of X agrees with me on this).
>
> skip h

Probably just false modesty on his or her part. :-)

--Mike


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From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: French pop/rock (was Re: French rap)
Date: 01 Feb 2002 09:27:03 -0500

>>Somebody was dissing French hip hop, and for all I know,
>>the rest of it sucks, but I really like MC Solaar.

* duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>:
>Hey, your open-mindedness is all to your credit!
>I personally find the lack of originality, and especially the lack
>of swing, of voice, to be exasperating in most French pop, including
>hip-hop.  There are a few rare exceptions for pop/rock, but I have'nt
>heard any yet in hip-hop.  Mc Solaar seems to rap with the left side
>of his brain. Veeery exciting...

Duncan,

I enjoy some French pop/rock, old, recent & new.  I'll agree that
(as with US pop/rock, or any other genre) there's _a lot_ of s**t
to sift through.  I'd be interested to know what you like, and
what you find uninspired & boring. ;-)  No doubt you have a slighly
different take on it from those who aren't surrounded by it ...

Thanks


-Patrick


NP: Elis Regina - "Elis 1966"



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From: "Andrew" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: French pop/rock (was Re: French rap)
Date: 01 Feb 2002 09:28:46 -0500

> I enjoy some French pop/rock, old, recent & new.  I'll agree that
> (as with US pop/rock, or any other genre) there's _a lot_ of s**t
> to sift through.  I'd be interested to know what you like, and
> what you find uninspired & boring. ;-)  No doubt you have a slighly
> different take on it from those who aren't surrounded by it ...

On this note, I've lately been getting into the Bertrand Burgalat record,
"The Sssound of Mmmusic"- it's like Serge Gainsbourg meets Air.

andrew


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From: William Crump <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jazz Punk
Date: 01 Feb 2002 06:59:26 -0800 (PST)

Other jazz punk options, from SST near the end of its
life. (Is SST still in business? New releases, or just
keeping its catalogue in print?) Anyway...

There was/is a band called Hotel X that put out at
least two records, one of which was called Ladders, if
memory serves. The first album was just the band (a
quartet in which the bassists/guitarists doubled on
various brass and reeds), the second had some guest
appearances (Ginn, Bern Nix). I don't have the records
anymore, but I don't recall anything special about
either of them.

Also, there was something called The Sort Of Quartet,
who put out a disc called Kiss Me Twice, I'm Schizo.
I'd say all this fell clumsily into the jazz-punk
category.

William Crump

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com

-



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From: Dan Frank Kuehn <[e-mail]>
Subject: david bowie (slight return)
Date: 01 Feb 2002 08:23:14 -0700

Of course we love our frontmen, but the words get old faster than the music....

Are there any Tin Machine albums without Bowie?

Rollins Band albums without Henry?

Dan in Taos

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From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: steel drum recommendations?
Date: 01 Feb 2002 07:34:42 -0800

This is really out there, but there's a steel drummer in Japan that
does experimental music of sorts.  Sadly, I can't think of his name
at the moment. Not exactly traditional, but still....
--
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com

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From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Eno
Date: 01 Feb 2002 07:52:25 -0800

Those early Eno years were totally fab!  I lost him during his (and
current) U2 years.  I respect him, but I find his current work not
that interesting.  Generally I don't think he's the greatest producer
in the world.  I really miss his old sound - very textural and
intense.  I thought he started losing the pilot during his 'Talking
Heads' years - and I never really liked the record he did with David
Byrne.  I much prefered the 'Movies' album by the guy from Can. The
concept was basically the same.  Getting sounds from other sources -
especially the vocals.
  Sorry my memory is not too good due that - generally my memory is
bad in the mornings -plus I am suffering from a head cold from hell!

--
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com

-



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From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re: steel drum recommendations?
Date: 01 Feb 2002 11:02:22 -0500

> This is really out there, but there's a steel drummer in Japan that
>does experimental music of sorts.  Sadly, I can't think of his

Are you thinking of "Panhandling" from Fast Forward on Lovely?  He's British, though, I think and this is certainly not the usual steel drum stuff.  I thought the album pretty worthless.

-



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From: "Phil Plencner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: steel drum recommendations?
Date: 01 Feb 2002 10:08:54 -0600

My favorite steel drum band is Bakra Bata.  They do a wide mix of both
traditional songs as well as contemporary covers (moondance, redemption song
etc).

They have a few cds out and they're all available at their website
http://www.bakrabata.com/ (including soundclips for the curious).  I
particularly enjoy "Music For Bad Guys" and "Steel Drums and Percussion".

Oddly, they're from Seattle Washington. However they also tour around
frequently and I can't recommend enough seeing their live show. The first
time I heard them, it was at Milwaukee Summerfest of all places.

Phil


>    Can anyone recommend good music with steel drums? I'm interested in
> hearing them both in the original context (calypso, I think? please
correct
> me if I'm wrong) and in other styles.
>
>    Thanks very much in advance!
>
> mikah
>




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From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re: steel drum recommendations?
Date: 01 Feb 2002 08:16:20 -0800

>No, for sure it is a Japanese release and he's Japanese.  I'll try
>to locate his name shortly.  Sorry!
>
>Are you thinking of "Panhandling" from Fast Forward on Lovely?  He's
>British, though, I think and this is certainly not the usual steel
>drum stuff.  I thought the album pretty worthless.
>
>-


--
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com

-



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From: "matt krefting" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: david bowie (slight return)
Date: 01 Feb 2002 11:26:05 -0500

i would say _here come the warm jets_ should be the starting point, but
maybe just because it was mine. it's still my favorite of those pop records.
really, tho, i can't begin to think about knowing how to express how much i
love ALL the early eno stuff. fripp's solo on "st. elmo's fire" (_another
green world_) alone justifies being alive, and the title track to _warm
jets_ is one of the only songs i can think of that i see as both completely
heartbreaking and totally triumphant. the whole record is that way, tho.
_tiger mountain_, _no pussyfooting_, _evening star_, the cluster collabs,
the ambient records; all great. get them all...

mk


>Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 09:17:22 +0100
>From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Odp: david bowie (slight return)
>
> > The first 3 Eno Albums (the first is the most glam rock)
>You mean the first three POP Eno albums, his first being 'no pussyfooting',
>, a duet with robert fripp - not that much glam. That being said, all those
>albums are really great, some of the mest music made for the 30 years IMHO.
>'Another green World', an absolute beast, should be the best starting point
>(yet, when i think wbut it, this album does not sound that much glam -
>rather minimalist/ pop for childern that are not very bright). Brian Eno
>is,
>as we all know,  god.
>Marcin
>
>
>
>- -
>


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "carlos torres" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: OT Re: freestyle fellowship/saul williams
Date: 01 Feb 2002 08:48:44 -0800


>If by "new" you mean "Amethyst Rock Star", I think it's brilliant,
>and was a breath of fresh air when I was spinning it non-stop
>early last year. :)  I've seen Saul live with his band and they
>can certainly "bring the noise/funk/whathaveyou".  His lyrics/
>poetry and delivery are unmatched for me, although some of Mike
>Ladd's stuff comes close.

this is one ill have to argue. i thought it was very mediocre. his beats are
recycled jibberish at high volume..and as for his lyrics...the words trite
and just plain silly (in the bad sense, as when someone is trying to be
serious but its just too darn bad to take it that way) come to mind

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Verstraeten Stefan" <[e-mail]>
Subject: post-rock question
Date: 01 Feb 2002 17:50:07 +0100

Hello,

I need the musical knowledge that floats on this list...
I am looking for the name of the band and the title of their album...

They had a some airplay (at the end of) last year with a song called "Iron
Long". They had a video that was entirely constructed from drawings of
people inhaling air in various ways and with various things....

Can anybody help me out with this one?

A LOT of thanks in advance...

Stefan Verstraeten

[e-mail]

np Fred Frith: Guitar Solos (I-III)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "dekater" <[e-mail]>
Subject: steeldrum
Date: 01 Feb 2002 17:50:59 +0100

What about Van Dyke Parks' 'Discover America'?

Jan Luyben


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Leo Records_Document_ on eBay
Date: 01 Feb 2002 12:04:32 EST

FYI- can't remember if it's been mentioned here or not, but someone is
selling a copy of the long-OOP Leo Records 8xCD _Document_ box on eBay.  I'd
easily put this box set in the "most important musical works ever released"
catagory.

--
=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: French pock/rop
Date: 09 Jan 2002 23:44:28 +0100

>  I'd be interested to know what you like, and
> what you find uninspired & boring=2E ;-)  No doubt you have a slighly
> different take on it from those who aren't surrounded by it =2E=2E=2E
>
> Thanks
>
> -Patrick
>
>
>
>

OK=2E This is by no means an authoritive lecture on the subject, but what I
in my limited experience and knowledge personally feel (though I'd have
to add I'm not alone in feeling this=2E=2E=2E)=2E

Of the classic 60's chanson singer/songwriter generation, there's Jacques
Brel and Barbara, on a par in their domain with Dylan or Joni Mitchell in
theirs=2E (Georges Brassens and L=E9o Ferr=E9 deserve mention as well=2E)

Gainsbourg I see as a highly gifted wisecrack and self-promo man, not
much more (the only song of his I find enjoyable is "Comic strip", sung
by Brigitte Bardot, an irresistibly cute jingle, really)=2E

The onslaught of rock n'roll and rock in the 60's was for France a
musical disaster=2E Mimicking American or British fashionable attitudes
became commercially obligatory and the fragile native thread of melodic,
thoughtful chanson was broken=2E Johnny Halliday (his real name is
Jean-Philippe Smet), the uncontested pop idol since1960 perfectly
illustrates this loss and the qualification "involuntarily funny"=2E

There was a very brief moment of tremendous hope in 1968 (I was 12) that
a Great Dawn of francophone pop music on a par with Anglo-american
standards was finally about to happen when the song "Lindberg" by Robert
Charlebois (Quebec) hit the airwaves: a stunningly inventive
Dylan-meets-Pink Floyd hit that stood miles apart from all the phony
local production=2E
Charlebois made a couple good albums but regrettably did not end up
setting French-language pop on fire=2E

Despite some memorable Dylan/Lennonesque attempts ("Je suis un homme",
etc=2E), the talented Michel Polnareff did not succeed to do that either=2E

Of the 80's & 90's US-influenced generation, I think V=E9ronique Sanson
(ex-Mrs=2E Steve Stills, no less) and Francis Cabrel stand out as
singer/songwriters of genuine talent/soul=2E
Michel Berger was a very talented harmonist/melodist=2E His hit song for
Johnny Haliday,"Quelquechose de Tennessee" (a homage to Tennessee
Williams=2E=2E=2E-only in France!), is just about the only listenable "Johnn=
y"=2E

The duo Rita Mitsouko stands out for me as the one hip mid-80's new wave
band, mostly thanks to singer Catherine Ringer's devil-may-care energy
and humor=2E Recommended album: "Le No-comprendo" (exhuberant, funky,
out-to-lunch chanson)=2E
It must be said that France just is'nt a nation of bands, the group
format just never caught on here like it did in the Anglo world=2E Too
individualistic (see Napoleon, DeGaulle=2E=2E=2E)?

I have a weakness for singer Patricia Kaas, her low raspy voice coupled
with some of the more-than-decent blues-rock songs written for her in the
late 80's/early 90's made her, at least for a while, a credible French
pop star=2E

As for French rappers, I just don't believe them=2E They act angry 'cause
they saw American rappers act angry and become multi-millionaires=2E
The whole gospel/ talking-blues tradition that's behind hip-hop is
entirely foreign to them=2E
As Duke Ellington used to say: "if it ain't got that swing=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=
=2E=2E"

Best,
DY=2E




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: jazz punk
Date: 01 Feb 2002 09:16:50 -0800



> From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
> Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 08:18:58 -0500
> To: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>,
> <[e-mail]>
> Cc: <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: jazz punk
>
>> Still LA's greatest contribution via punk rock (and, before anybody counters
>> with the  obvious, at least one member of X agrees with me on this).
>>
>> skip h
>
> Probably just false modesty on his or her part. :-)
>
> --Mike
>
Nah -- just that during a time when everything purported to be apocolyptic,
these three actually ere.  X were merely a fantastic rock'n'roll band.

sh


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: steeldrum
Date: 01 Feb 2002 09:20:03 -0800



> From: "dekater" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 17:50:59 +0100
> To: "zornlist" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: steeldrum
>
> What about Van Dyke Parks' 'Discover America'?
>
> Jan Luyben
>
>
> -
A fantastic album! Also, while doing that record, he produced an LP of the
Esso-Trinidad Steel Band for Warner Bros, whihc seems to be quite a favorite
among the steel drum fans.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matthew Moffett <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jazz Punk
Date: 01 Feb 2002 12:54:57 -0500

Don't know if I'd call Hotel X Jazz-punk so much as jazz rock,  but they
were a good band and were the ones to crack open my brain enough to
finally accept fusion.  Ladders is good, as is Uncommon Grounds.  One of
the few good bands to ever come out of Richmond, and they worked harder
than most bands I've ever seen, often changing their names every few
months to re-invent their material running through differnent veins of
jazz and math rock.  Last I heard, most of them spend their time in Bio
Ritmo now, a project similar to Ribot's latino stuff that started mostly
as a joke.

Matt


William Crump wrote:
>
> Other jazz punk options, from SST near the end of its
> life. (Is SST still in business? New releases, or just
> keeping its catalogue in print?) Anyway...
>
> There was/is a band called Hotel X that put out at
> least two records, one of which was called Ladders, if
> memory serves. The first album was just the band (a
> quartet in which the bassists/guitarists doubled on
> various brass and reeds), the second had some guest
> appearances (Ginn, Bern Nix). I don't have the records
> anymore, but I don't recall anything special about
> either of them.
>
> Also, there was something called The Sort Of Quartet,
> who put out a disc called Kiss Me Twice, I'm Schizo.
> I'd say all this fell clumsily into the jazz-punk
> category.
>
> William Crump
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
> http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
> -

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Scott Handley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: d-mented R&B/hip hop
Date: 01 Feb 2002 10:01:55 -0800 (PST)

> > Somebody was dissing French hip hop, and for all I
> know, the rest of it
> > sucks, but I really like MC Solaar.

Apparently you are in good company....about 1 year
ago, in ARTFORUM's end-of-year wrap-up, Christian
Marclay was quoted as saying that cassettes of Solaar
were all he listened to while driving across Europe.
He raved about it, though unfortunately I haven't the
magazine with me.

----s

np: Superchunk, COME PICK ME UP
nr: Neil Gaiman, AMERICAN GODS

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Oger <[e-mail]>
Subject: New Potlatch releases
Date: 01 Feb 2002 19:05:27 +0200


I apologize for the promotional nature of this message.

                          **********

New Potlatch releases are available now.

- "rouge gris bruit"
Sophie AGNEL (piano), Lionel MARCHETTI (tapes, loud speakers,
electronics), Jerome NOETINGER (tapes, loud speakers, electronics) -
Potlatch P401

  - "Phosphor"
Burkhard BEINS (percussion), Alessandro BOSETTI (soprano saxophone),
Axel DORNER (trumpet, electronics), Robin HAYWARD (tuba), Michael
RENKEL (acoustic guitar), Annette KREBS (electro-acoustic guitar),
Andrea NEUMANN (inside piano, mixing desk), Ignaz SCHICK
(live-electronics) - Potlatch P501

If you need more information :
  http://www.potlatch.fr

Jacques Oger
                          **********




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: French pock/rop
Date: 01 Feb 2002 10:29:16 -0800

With due and great respect to Duncan, I disagree of course with his
commentary on Gainsbourg.  Of course I am biased since I published
the english translation of 'Evguenie Sokolov,' Gainsbourg's only work
of fiction.  I think his music is really great from the late 50's to
the 70's.  The 80's were dodgy at best, but I think he's a great
writer.  i strongly suggest his album from the 70's Melody Nelson as
well as some of early 50's Jazz/Latin pop.

On the other hand I totally agree with Duncan about Les Rita
Mitsuoko.  They're are a great pop band.  Sort of a combination of
Sparks and T-Rex.  It's a shame that they didn't take off in the
States or outside of France.  They also have a great visual quality -
their videos are wonderful!

--
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "graham stephenson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: jazz punk
Date: 01 Feb 2002 18:40:45 +0000



i think the minutemen would be a good example of this.  they came from the
80's hardcore scene in L.A. but started to play guitars without distortion,
to keep their sound unique.  the guitar parts are equally jazzy and funky,
played with the attitude and edge of punk.


     __  (\_
    (_ \ ( '>
      ) \/_)=
      (_(_ )_
     squirrel


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Re: post-rock question
Date: 01 Feb 2002 13:50:58 -0500

* "Verstraeten Stefan" <[e-mail]>
>I need the musical knowledge that floats on this list...
>I am looking for the name of the band and the title of their album...

>They had a some airplay (at the end of) last year with a song called
>"Iron Long". They had a video that was entirely constructed from
>drawings of people inhaling air in various ways and with various things....

I'm probably way off if you're correct with the song title,
but if it's actually "Iron Lung" _by any chance_, then what
you heard could be the UK band, Pram.  The song is a good
6 years old though so no doubt I'm rambling for no reason.


-P



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Re: OT: freestyle fellowship/saul williams
Date: 01 Feb 2002 13:50:55 -0500

>If by "new" you mean "Amethyst Rock Star", I think it's brilliant,
>and was a breath of fresh air when I was spinning it non-stop
>early last year. :)  I've seen Saul live with his band and they
>can certainly "bring the noise/funk/whathaveyou".  His lyrics/
>poetry and delivery are unmatched for me, although some of Mike
>Ladd's stuff comes close.

* "carlos torres" <[e-mail]>:
>this is one ill have to argue. i thought it was very mediocre. his beats
>are recycled jibberish at high volume..and as for his lyrics...the words
>trite and just plain silly (in the bad sense, as when someone is trying
>to be serious but its just too darn bad to take it that way) come to mind

Wow!  Never heard this from _anyone_.  Pretty harsh, but hey ...
it's your take.  I don't find anything "trite" or "silly" about him.
And ... "recycled jibberish"?  How can (drum) beats (played by a real,
live drummer) be "jibberish"?  This really leaves me wondering whether
we're listening to the same LP.

Takes all kinds, I guess.


-Patrick



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: French pock/rop
Date: 01 Feb 2002 11:26:05 -0800


    BTW, the last issue of MOJO has a good intro to French pop. It shows
that French pop was at the best when it did not try to imitate the English/
US models (and at worst...).

    A few comments on Ducan's every good overlook of French pop:

On Sat, 09 Jan 1904 23:44:28 +0100  duncan youngerman wrote:
>
> Gainsbourg I see as a highly gifted wisecrack and self-promo man, not
> much more (the only song of his I find enjoyable is "Comic strip", sung
> by Brigitte Bardot, an irresistibly cute jingle, really).

Gainsbourg is much more than "Comic Strip"! He is responsible for a
significant part of the top best French songs. Gainsbourg did not
create musical trends, and instead was inpired by them (he was very
attentive to every new musical movements all over the world, and
borrowed heavily). This can be perceived as a crticism but it is
not. Gainsbourg's main talent was at playing with words and in
using new music genres to craft great songs (most of them still
stands after more than four decades!).

> The onslaught of rock n'roll and rock in the 60's was for France a
> musical disaster. Mimicking American or British fashionable attitudes
> became commercially obligatory and the fragile native thread of melodic,
> thoughtful chanson was broken. Johnny Halliday (his real name is
> Jean-Philippe Smet), the uncontested pop idol since1960 perfectly
> illustrates this loss and the qualification "involuntarily funny".

This is unfortunately true. I have forgotten how awful and derivative
many of these bands were, when, at the same time so many amazing French
songs were written. The only decent rock made in France was of the
experimental type (and Magma is the first I can think of).

> There was a very brief moment of tremendous hope in 1968 (I was 12) that
> a Great Dawn of francophone pop music on a par with Anglo-american
> standards was finally about to happen when the song "Lindberg" by Robert
> Charlebois (Quebec) hit the airwaves: a stunningly inventive
> Dylan-meets-Pink Floyd hit that stood miles apart from all the phony
> local production.

I missed that totally (and I have the same age :-).

> Charlebois made a couple good albums but regrettably did not end up
> setting French-language pop on fire.
>
> Despite some memorable Dylan/Lennonesque attempts ("Je suis un homme",
> etc.), the talented Michel Polnareff did not succeed to do that either.

How can you reduce Polnareff to one of his most mediocre song? What
about "Le Bal des Lazes" with its gothic grandiosity, or "Love Me, Please
Love Me", and so many more.

And where is Jacques Dutronc? Who interpreted one of the best French
song ever made: "Il est 5 heures, Paris s'eveille"?

He was singing about individualism in the sixties, when everybody was
in "peace and love". As a result, thirty years after, his songs finally
find a society in sync with their spirit :-).

> Of the 80's & 90's US-influenced generation, I think VΘronique Sanson
> (ex-Mrs. Steve Stills, no less) and Francis Cabrel stand out as
> singer/songwriters of genuine talent/soul.

And what about Jean-Louis Murat?

> Michel Berger was a very talented harmonist/melodist. His hit song for
> Johnny Haliday,"Quelquechose de Tennessee" (a homage to Tennessee
> Williams...-only in France!), is just about the only listenable "Johnny".
>
> The duo Rita Mitsouko stands out for me as the one hip mid-80's new wave
> band, mostly thanks to singer Catherine Ringer's devil-may-care energy
> and humor. Recommended album: "Le No-comprendo" (exhuberant, funky,
> out-to-lunch chanson).
> It must be said that France just is'nt a nation of bands, the group
> format just never caught on here like it did in the Anglo world. Too
> individualistic (see Napoleon, DeGaulle...)?

You are absolutely right here. I can only remember of one good French
punk band: The Thugs.

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rev. Floyd Heirs" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: david bowie (slight return)
Date: 01 Feb 2002 11:34:38 -0800

>>>Brian Eno is, as we all know,  god.<<<

Eno also pioneered 'gland rock' when he went offstage to take a
piss with his microphone still turned on a few years back near the
end of a lecture/discussion in Los Angeles.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Peter Cusak's MY FAVORITE SOUNDS OF LONDON
Date: 01 Feb 2002 11:36:39 -0800


    A couple of days ago, Peter Cusak was interviewed on NPR about his new
project: gathering sounds from London selected by various people. It was not
clear if this was made on record (no label was mentioned, and I was listening
to carefully). Does anybody know more on this?

    Thanks,

    Patrice (also waiting for the new compilation from David Toop).

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rev. Floyd Heirs" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Trisha Brown Dancing To Dave Douglas
Date: 01 Feb 2002 11:48:43 -0800

"Postmodern dance, like jazz, is a quintessentially American art,
and the two make happy bedfellows in El Trilogy, with BrownÆs
predilection for juggling seriousness and play, structure and
improvisation, likely matches to DouglasÆ score, which
incorporates the musicianÆs coughing alongside syncopated poly
rhythms and dense, post-Webern scherzos."

Anyone seen this? She's at UCLA tomorrow night. Should I go? (The
music is recorded not Douglas live.)

Is Matthew jumping Shipp?
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/02/11/music-burk.shtml




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: French pock/rop
Date: 01 Feb 2002 11:58:32 -0800

Patrice's remark about Jacques Dutronc reminded me that I just
purchased a best of collection - mostly his early to mid 60's stuff
with one out-of-site song he wrote with Gainsbourg.  I think he's
great, but what about his stuff he did in the 70's and so forth.  I
know he's an actor (was in one of Godard's films), but is he
consistant with his music.
--
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: French pock/rop
Date: 01 Feb 2002 12:01:19 -0800


On Fri, 1 Feb 2002 11:58:32 -0800  Tosh wrote:
>
> Patrice's remark about Jacques Dutronc reminded me that I just
> purchased a best of collection - mostly his early to mid 60's stuff
> with one out-of-site song he wrote with Gainsbourg.  I think he's
> great, but what about his stuff he did in the 70's and so forth.  I
> know he's an actor (was in one of Godard's films), but is he
> consistant with his music.

I can't tell since I mainly know him for his songs from the 60's.

    Patrice (shameful).

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Michael Berman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: French pock/rop
Date: 01 Feb 2002 15:45:22 -0500

i guess they dont qualify as pop or rock, but im a real fan of les =
negresses vertes.  id love to know more about them, do they still exist =
(I recall hearing the lead guy died?)?



> > It must be said that France just is'nt a nation of bands, the group
> > format just never caught on here like it did in the Anglo world. Too
> > individualistic (see Napoleon, DeGaulle...)?
>=20
> You are absolutely right here. I can only remember of one good French
> punk band: The Thugs.



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:Serge
Date: 10 Jan 2002 03:00:43 +0100



Tosh a =E9crit :

> With due and great respect to Duncan, I disagree of course with his
> commentary on Gainsbourg=2E

I did say (or did I) he was brilliant=2E But a little bit too much the
brilliance of a great ad man, IMHO=2E
Maybe I find it a little too respectable/comfortable in France to be the
scato-erotico-anarchist provocateur=2E Rabelais, Sade, Rimbaud,
Lautr=E9amont, Artaud, H=2EMiller, Genet were there=2E Why I never bought
Coluche (comedian who ran for president and almost won) either=2E

Much more daring in the Mayflower-founded USA=2E
Which is why I respect Lenny Bruce or even Eminem, and your defense and
publishing of Gainsbourg!!

Best,
D=2E

>
>
>
> -


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Serge
Date: 01 Feb 2002 12:37:19 -0800


On Sun, 10 Jan 1904 03:00:43 +0100  duncan youngerman wrote:
>
> Maybe I find it a little too respectable/comfortable in France to be the
> scato-erotico-anarchist provocateur. Rabelais, Sade, Rimbaud,

But he was more that that since three of the above qualifiers mainly
apply to the last 20 years of his career. I do not like too much
Gainsbourg toward the end because he became a carricature of himself
(due to the fact you mention: it was too easy for him). But what is
it in light of the 50's, 60's, 70's? Almost three decades of great
songs.

> LautrΘamont, Artaud, H.Miller, Genet were there. Why I never bought
> Coluche (comedian who ran for president and almost won) either.

You miss something by not buying Coluche. Humour in France (as far as
stand up comedians are concerned) was stagnating in the early 70's.
Coluche completely changed the situation (as well as Reiser, Cabu, in
comic strips). Many people were put off by Coluche's vulgarity. At
least in his case the vulgarity was at the service of the humour.

    Patrice.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:Serge
Date: 01 Feb 2002 12:54:01 -0800

>Duncan's commentary is very interesting!  The only thing I can add
>at this point is that I think Gainsbourg wrote beautiful melodies.

Mentioning Lenny Bruce...I don't know if Gainsbourg would serve the
same purpose  or not.  But perhaps yes, since both were in a sense
devoted to their culture as well as being subersive within their
society.  Bruce became destroyed by it (U.S. culture) in the sense
that he took on a huge battle by himself - and I think he was
heartbroken about the situation that he was placed in.  Gainsbourg on
the other hand was someone who survived within his culture (even
though he drinked himself to death) and basically went on doing his
art/craft.

But I don't know, Gainsbourg means a lot to me.  When U.S. people ask
me who Gainsbourg is I usually say he is a cross between Johnny
Rotten and Bob Dylan with the skills of Cole Porter.  And by the way
(if I may say so) is novel is great!



--
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: French pock/rop
Date: 10 Jan 2002 03:49:12 +0100



Gainsbourg did not

> create musical trends, and instead was inpired by them (he was very
> attentive to every new musical movements all over the world, and
> borrowed heavily)=2E This can be perceived as a crticism but it is
> not=2E Gainsbourg's main talent was at playing with words and in
> using new music genres to craft great songs (most of them still
> stands after more than four decades!)=2E

I definitely agree about his being derivative=2E A friend of mine calls that
musical tourism=2E To me, his self is missing, somehow=2E

> The only decent rock made in France was of the
> experimental type (and Magma is the first I can think of)=2E

> Definitely Magma and the few others (Cirkus?) being so progressive and
> instrumentally oriented, they did'nt come to my mind=2E

> > There was a very brief moment of tremendous hope in 1968 (I was 12) that
> > a Great Dawn of francophone pop music on a par with Anglo-american
> > standards was finally about to happen when the song "Lindberg" by Robert
> > Charlebois (Quebec) hit the airwaves: a stunningly inventive
> > Dylan-meets-Pink Floyd hit that stood miles apart from all the phony
> > local production=2E
>
> I missed that totally (and I have the same age :-)=2E

You're (apparently) Canadian and you missed Charlebois?! Were you logging wo=
od?

> Despite some memorable Dylan/Lennonesque attempts ("Je suis un homme",
>  etc=2E), the talented Michel Polnareff did not succeed to do that either=
=2E
>
> How can you reduce Polnareff to one of his most mediocre song? What
> about "Le Bal des Lazes" with its gothic grandiosity, or "Love Me, Please
> Love Me", and so many more=2E

"Je suis un homme" was his popular peak I think, and seems to me a successfu=
l
and one-of-a-kind glam-rock/new-wave ironic anthem, about 5 years before Que=
en,
staying very French in character (the individualist again)=2E

> And where is Jacques Dutronc? Who interpreted one of the best French
> song ever made: "Il est 5 heures, Paris s'eveille"?

Who wrote it, even (at least the music)=2E
Yes, he did some good stuff and I will now proceed to whip myself for having
left him out=2E

> He was singing about individualism in the sixties, when everybody was
> in "peace and love"=2E As a result, thirty years after, his songs finally
> find a society in sync with their spirit :-)=2E

Well, he was doing (a watered down) Dylan's "Subterranian homesick blues",
which, following punk and rap, is as modern as ever=2E

>  Of the 80's & 90's US-influenced generation, I think V=E9ronique Sanson

> (ex-Mrs=2E Steve Stills, no less) and Francis Cabrel stand out as

> singer/songwriters of genuine talent/soul=2E

> And what about Jean-Louis Murat?

The guy has no voice=2E=2E=2E or if he does, he can't use it=2E Who needs th=
at?
There's too much complacency in France for people who can't sing their way o=
ut
of a paper bag and hide behind their supposed intelligence or subversiveness=
=2E

DY=2E

>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Dutronc
Date: 10 Jan 2002 03:59:44 +0100



>   I
> know he's an actor (was in one of Godard's films), but is he
> consistant with his music.
>
>
> -

He's actually a -very- good actor who's played in films by Zuwlawski
("L'important c'est d'aimer" opposite Romy Schneider) and many others.
His interpretation of Vincent in Maurice Pialat's "Van Gogh" drove me
crazy though (it might have been Pialat's direction, who knows): he
played him like a swinging latin lover...

D.



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Coluche
Date: 10 Jan 2002 04:06:25 +0100



>
> Many people were put off by Coluche's vulgarity. At
> least in his case the vulgarity was at the service of the humour.
>
>         Patrice.

I've never met a french person who did'nt love Coluche or was put off by his
vulgarity.
And I've never once been able to laugh at his stuff no matter how much I
thought I ought to... (-must be the non-French  -50%- in me).

D.

>
>
> -


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "carlos torres" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: OT: freestyle fellowship/saul williams
Date: 01 Feb 2002 13:33:26 -0800

>I don't find anything "trite" or "silly" about him.
>And ... "recycled jibberish"?

as in..his flow, its all been done before, nothing new..or of any interest.
i dont mean to be harsh, like you said, to each his own..i just  didnt enjoy
it when i heard it..what do you think andrew? you've probably come across
it...just wondering what other people think..perhaps i should give it
another shot...or not.

carlos




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: French pock/rop
Date: 01 Feb 2002 13:36:12 -0800


On Sun, 10 Jan 1904 03:49:12 +0100  duncan youngerman wrote:
>
> > And what about Jean-Louis Murat?
>
> The guy has no voice... or if he does, he can't use it. Who needs that?
> There's too much complacency in France for people who can't sing their way out
> of a paper bag and hide behind their supposed intelligence or subversiveness.

Sounds like the the usual "he can't play his intrument...".

I can think of many great songwriters who are not so good singers (technically,
I mean)...

It is funny that more than forty years ago the new generation of French
singers (Brel, Brassens, etc) was attacked for not having the voice of
Luis Mariano, and Boris Vian in a famous essay put things straight (read:
he ridiculed them).

Maybe Murat cannot sing, but he is able to make haunting songs that are hard
to get rid off (such as one version of "Rouge est mon Sommeil", and the
truly incredible live version of "Polly Jean" on MURAGOSTANG (the one with
reading excerpts from Genet's bio)).

In fact, there are many French singers who do not sing (I specially think
of actors who are pushed in the singing business). But Murat is at least
a songwriter in total control of what he does. And last, many American
friends fell in love with Murat's voice.

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=E9gresses?= vertes
Date: 10 Jan 2002 04:15:52 +0100

Il s'agit d'un message multivolet au format MIME.
--------------57190E4C02A17CAB4F9B6623
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



--------------57190E4C02A17CAB4F9B6623
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [fr] (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-Accept-Language: fr
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <[e-mail]> <00e501c1ab61$78e2ee40$f05520d8@mberman>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit




> i guess they dont qualify as pop or rock, but im a real fan of les negresses vertes.  id love to know more about them, do they still exist (I recall hearing the lead guy died?)?

They do qualify as pop/rock (that's a pretty wide category) and definitely represent a important trend. But I hope someone here knows more details about them, because I'm pretty
limited there. (not a very useful message.)
D.


>
>
>
> -


--------------57190E4C02A17CAB4F9B6623--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=E9gresses?= vertes boundary="------------57190E4C02A17CAB4F9B6623"
Date: 01 Feb 2002 13:47:36 -0800


On Sun, 10 Jan 1904 04:15:52 +0100  duncan youngerman wrote:
>
> Date: Sun, 10 Jan 1904 04:14:57 +0100
> From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
> To: Michael Berman <[e-mail]>
> Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?N=E9gresses?= vertes
>
> > i guess they dont qualify as pop or rock, but im a real fan of les
> > negresses vertes.  id love to know more about them, do they still exist
> > (I recall hearing the lead guy died?)?
>
> They do qualify as pop/rock (that's a pretty wide category) and definitely
> represent a important trend. But I hope someone here knows more details
> about them, because I'm pretty limited there. (not a very useful message.)

And do not forget Mano Negra, maybe the only French band to have a song
with some (limited, I am sure) visibility in the US in a while (maybe
because it talked of Arizona :-).

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Herbie Hancock
Date: 01 Feb 2002 17:03:20 -0500

While looking at the new DTG Release email today I saw an interesting
comment next to a vinyl version of Hancock's Sextant: "The last great
record from Herbie!"  and then it says next to Headhunters: "The
beginning of Herbie's long journey info funk!?!"  What's with this
comment and the weird/ambiguous punctuation on the second?  I happen to
enjoy both post-Sextant and the "Techno Trilogy" from the eighties.  Am
I in the minority here?

Zach


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Murat
Date: 10 Jan 2002 04:43:41 +0100



"Patrice L=2E Roussel" a *crit :

> On Sun, 10 Jan 1904 03:49:12 +0100  duncan youngerman wrote:
> >
> > > And what about Jean-Louis Murat?
> >
> > The guy has no voice=2E=2E=2E or if he does, he can't use it=2E Who need=
s that?
> > There's too much complacency in France for people who can't sing their w=
ay out
> > of a paper bag and hide behind their supposed intelligence or subversive=
ness=2E
>
> Sounds like the the usual "he can't play his intrument=2E=2E=2E"=2E
>
> I can think of many great songwriters who are not so good singers (technic=
ally,
> I mean)=2E=2E=2E
>
> It is funny that more than forty years ago the new generation of French
> singers (Brel, Brassens, etc) was attacked for not having the voice of
> Luis Mariano, and Boris Vian in a famous essay put things straight (read:
> he ridiculed them)=2E
>
> Maybe Murat cannot sing, but he is able to make haunting songs that are ha=
rd
> to get rid off (such as one version of "Rouge est mon Sommeil", and the
> truly incredible live version of "Polly Jean" on MURAGOSTANG (the one with
> reading excerpts from Genet's bio))=2E
>
> In fact, there are many French singers who do not sing (I specially think
> of actors who are pushed in the singing business)=2E But Murat is at least
> a songwriter in total control of what he does=2E And last, many American
> friends fell in love with Murat's voice=2E
>
>         Patrice=2E

Bob Dylan does'nt sing like Bing Crosby, and Janis Joplin does'nt sing like
Elizabeth Schwartzkof, but they do deliver a song=2E
I don't feel any courage or authenticity or presence in people like Murat, S=
ouchon,
Daho, etc=2E
(while with people like Johnny, Claude Fran=E7ois, Sardou, I feel they try t=
oo hard
to sound authentic only to sound pathetic!)

Look, I'll suspend my judgement on Murat, and if I get a chance to see him l=
ive,
I'll check him out: that sometimes surprises=2E=2E=2E
D=2E



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Coluche
Date: 01 Feb 2002 14:09:29 -0800


On Sun, 10 Jan 1904 04:06:25 +0100  duncan youngerman wrote:
>
> I've never met a french person who did'nt love Coluche or was put off by his
> vulgarity.

Now, for sure. But in the early 70's with "C'est l'histoire d'un mec"?

> And I've never once been able to laugh at his stuff no matter how much I
> thought I ought to... (-must be the non-French  -50%- in me).

Even the one about the advertisements (including washing powder)? Just
thinking of it I am already laughing :-).

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Herbie Hancock
Date: 01 Feb 2002 14:35:46 -0800



> From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 17:03:20 -0500
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Herbie Hancock
>
> While looking at the new DTG Release email today I saw an interesting
> comment next to a vinyl version of Hancock's Sextant: "The last great
> record from Herbie!"  and then it says next to Headhunters: "The
> beginning of Herbie's long journey info funk!?!"  What's with this
> comment and the weird/ambiguous punctuation on the second?  I happen to
> enjoy both post-Sextant and the "Techno Trilogy" from the eighties.  Am
> I in the minority here?
>
> Zach
>
Personally, I have not loved Herbie's techno stuff, more because I thought
they lagged and weren't produced in a way that I thought really made good
use of herbie, as soloist, texturalist, or composer.  I keep waiting for him
take take electronics into the same next realm where he took hornwriting on
his last two Blue Note albums.  I recommend Shocklee or Prince Paul to
produce.

skip "old fogie" heller
np: zappa guest dj's on dr demento, 1981


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rich Williams <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jazz Punk
Date: 01 Feb 2002 17:37:06 -0500

>
>There was/is a band called Hotel X that put out at
>least two records, one of which was called Ladders, if
>memory serves. The first album was just the band (a
>quartet in which the bassists/guitarists doubled on
>various brass and reeds), the second had some guest
>appearances (Ginn, Bern Nix). I don't have the records
>anymore, but I don't recall anything special about
>either of them.


    There are at least 5 Hotel X discs, and though I agree that
the band never really distinguished itself, they did do quite a few
interesting covers; Sharrock's Who Does She Hope to Be, and Laswell's
Work Song along with stuff by David Murray, Pharoah Sanders and McCoy
Tyner.
    For me , the term Punkjazz means the early work of
Curlew(Their 1st LP), Material (w/Frith/Sharrock/Threadgill/Bang
etc), The Lounge Lizards, James Blood's first band(they opened for
Beefheart on his last NYC appearance), and Elliot Sharp's Moving
Information(w/Percy Jones, Art Baron etc),


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rich Williams <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: steel drum recommendations?
Date: 01 Feb 2002 17:41:33 -0500

>Hello all -
>
>   While in NYC recently I had the pleasure of checking out a lot of
>the street and subway musicians. One of them was a steel drum player
>who would play blues, R&B, reggae, Stevie Wonder tunes, and so on,
>either with other musicians or along to a tape. It seemed to me that
>he was a really good soloist and that the pans are very well suited
>to the blues and R&B.
>
>   Can anyone recommend good music with steel drums? I'm interested
>in hearing them both in the original context (calypso, I think?
>please correct me if I'm wrong) and in other styles.


    The Beaver Harris 360 Music Experience  circa 1985 was a
(more or less) free-jazz group
that was based around the Steel Drum, and featured a young Vincent
Herring on tenor.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: the muff <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: d-mented R&B/hip hop
Date: 01 Feb 2002 17:43:30 -0800

speaking of french hip hop, i'm surprised no one here has mentioned IAM.

they're much more commercial than any of the previously mentioned
artists.  they have great beats, rhythm, etc.
kinda like st germain for the jazz enthusiast.

the muff


Scott Handley wrote:

> > > Somebody was dissing French hip hop, and for all I
> > know, the rest of it
> > > sucks, but I really like MC Solaar.
>
> Apparently you are in good company....about 1 year
> ago, in ARTFORUM's end-of-year wrap-up, Christian
> Marclay was quoted as saying that cassettes of Solaar
> were all he listened to while driving across Europe.
> He raved about it, though unfortunately I haven't the
> magazine with me.
>
> ----s
>
> np: Superchunk, COME PICK ME UP
> nr: Neil Gaiman, AMERICAN GODS
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
> http://auctions.yahoo.com
>
> -


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: I wrote this?
Date: 01 Feb 2002 17:05:45 -0800

>Personally, I have not loved Herbie's techno stuff, more because I thought they
>lagged and weren't produced in a way that I thought really made good use of
>herbie, as soloist, texturalist, or composer.  I keep waiting for him take take
>electronics into the same next realm where he took hornwriting on his last two
>Blue Note albums.

I just reread that, and I apologize heartily for having written it.  Telling
Herbie he's supposed to weigh himself down with some sort of artistic
pretentions when he's making dance records is really bogus on my part.  The
two forms are governed by different requirements.  He's obviously one of the
geniuses of the music, and he's made enough heady records that he probably
should make some fun ones, too.  God knows, we need both sides of the
equation, and it's wonderful that he's open to both kinds of expression, and
even better that he can pull it off more than most.

skip h



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kasra George Ahmadi <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Herbie Hancock
Date: 01 Feb 2002 19:16:53 -0600

Actually I just picked up Sextant and found it to be another incredible part
of Herbie's output as a musician searching and searching. I can say that I
have definitely formed a hierarchy when it comes to his music. "Thrust" did
not hit me as much as "Headhunters" did but then again I think "Headhunters"
is also an overused album for what Herbie has done. Just my two cents, but
I'm curious as to see what people think about his recent collaboration with
Bill Laswell called Future 2 Future.
best,
kasra george ahmadi

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 4:03 PM


While looking at the new DTG Release email today I saw an interesting
comment next to a vinyl version of Hancock's Sextant: "The last great
record from Herbie!"  and then it says next to Headhunters: "The
beginning of Herbie's long journey info funk!?!"  What's with this
comment and the weird/ambiguous punctuation on the second?  I happen to
enjoy both post-Sextant and the "Techno Trilogy" from the eighties.  Am
I in the minority here?

Zach


-

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Herbie Hancock
Date: 01 Feb 2002 17:44:47 -0800



> From: Kasra George Ahmadi <[e-mail]>
> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 19:16:53 -0600
> To: 'Zachary Steiner' <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
> Subject: RE: Herbie Hancock
>
> "Thrust" did
> not hit me as much as "Headhunters" did but then again I think "Headhunters"
> is also an overused album for what Herbie has done

For my two cents, I advise folks to check out the Japanese double disc
FLOOD, which is the Thrust band live.  The studio records for me pale in
comparison after hearing that, espec the version of "Actual Proof", where
herbie plays some of the most intense piano of his career.

sh


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kasra George Ahmadi <[e-mail]>
Subject: Lonely Woman
Date: 01 Feb 2002 20:28:55 -0600

I know a bunch argued about Ornette. I'm not contributing, I just listened
to Lonely Woman, and just fell in love with it and transcribed the melody
and put it on repeat. Forget all theory and history and what people are
doing in jazz and whatever, it was just simply enjoyable.
best,
kasra

np: replaying "Lonely Woman" from The Shape of Jazz to Come, Ornette Coleman

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Herbie Hancock
Date: 01 Feb 2002 21:33:18 -0500



-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Skip Heller
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2002 8:45 PM



> From: Kasra George Ahmadi <[e-mail]>
> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 19:16:53 -0600
> To: 'Zachary Steiner' <[e-mail]>,
[e-mail]
> Subject: RE: Herbie Hancock
>
> "Thrust" did
> not hit me as much as "Headhunters" did but then again I think
"Headhunters"
> is also an overused album for what Herbie has done

For my two cents, I advise folks to check out the Japanese double disc
FLOOD, which is the Thrust band live.  The studio records for me pale in
comparison after hearing that, espec the version of "Actual Proof",
where
herbie plays some of the most intense piano of his career.

sh


-


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Herbie Hancock
Date: 01 Feb 2002 21:34:48 -0500

Did any one see the "Directions in Music" tour that Herbie put on last
fall? Any thoughts? I enjoyed the rhythm section, but was left cold by
the horns.  Which is ironic for a tribute to great horn players...oh
well.

Zach


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: abstract hip hop
Date: 01 Feb 2002 19:41:59 -0800 (PST)

streetlight records (www.streetlightrecords.com)
carries all the anticon collective records/cds.



On Fri, 1 Feb 2002, Andrew wrote:

> > well, since we're on the subject, i'll crawl out of my whole and put
> > down my $0.02
> > A great band to listen to is cLOUDDEAD.  Abstract beats, with ambient
> > sounds.  Hip hop nontheless.
>
> I'm glad that everyone on here digs the Clouddead record....I love it.
> Mush's distro is pretty poor, though....you can hardly order anything from
> www.dirtyloop.com ......I wonder if they'll work out a better deal?
>
> I'm also digging the Reaching Quiet Mp3's i've found.....it's 2/3 of
> Clouddead (minus Dose One) and it's a little heavier and more melodic.
>
> a
>
>
> -
>
>

Yes.  Beautiful, wonderful nature.  Hear it sing to us: *snap*  Yes.  natURE.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Herbie Hancock
Date: 01 Feb 2002 22:56:44 EST


--part1_148.8d47a08.298cbd7c_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 2/1/02 8:17:41 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> but
> I'm curious as to see what people think about his recent collaboration with
> Bill Laswell called Future 2 Future.
>

I've tried listening to Future2Future several times, and it just seems really
flat and directionless to me. However, a friend of mine suggested that, based
on Hancock's career, you have to take the "jazz" out of the equation for this
one. Which unfortunately leaves me with another uninteresting hip-hop (?)
album.

Dale.

--part1_148.8d47a08.298cbd7c_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c0c0c0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">In a message dated 2/1/02 8:17:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">but<BR>
I'm curious as to see what people think about his recent collaboration with<BR>
Bill Laswell called Future 2 Future. <BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c0c0c0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BR>
I've tried listening to Future2Future several times, and it just seems really flat and directionless to me. However, a friend of mine suggested that, based on Hancock's career, you have to take the "jazz" out of the equation for this one. Which unfortunately leaves me with another uninteresting hip-hop (?) album.<BR>
<BR>
Dale.<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_148.8d47a08.298cbd7c_boundary--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew" <[e-mail]>
Subject: /saul williams/ www.massmag.com
Date: 01 Feb 2002 23:34:10 -0500



This is as good an opportunity as any to spam.....I write for an online
webzine that covers Hip hop, literature, film, cultural commentary,
industrial design, etc... I really love the mag. Check us out at
www.massmag.com , and read my reviews of the recent Saul Williams and David
Axelrod records. Also, dig my cover story on "the failed promise of 'the Dj
in the Band."

Again, this is not spam, but I think you guys might dig the mag.

andrew


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Banjology <[e-mail]>
Subject: new to the list
Date: 01 Feb 2002 20:56:23 -0800 (PST)

Hi all,
My name is John. I'm from maine and currently studying
jazz at the University of Southern Maine. I'm a huge
zorn fan and even more a fan of Bill Frisell, since i
play guitar.
I look forward to talking to you all about this great
style of music!

John


=====
[e-mail]

AOL Messenger - GtrJazz9
ICQ - 135811954
Yahoo Messenger - GtrJazz9

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Herbie Hancock
Date: 01 Feb 2002 21:57:50 -0800





I've tried listening to Future2Future several times, and it just seems
really flat and directionless to me. However, a friend of mine suggested
that, based on Hancock's career, you have to take the "jazz" out of the
equation for this one. Which unfortunately leaves me with another
uninteresting hip-hop (?) album.

Dale.

I agree.  I didn't think the hip-hop aspect was all that compellingly
rendered, and Herbie's solos sounded kind of phoned in over top of this
rather undistinguished bed of electronic wash.  Herbie's always been at his
best when interacting with other players in the moment, and it would be
interesting to see what would happen if he was made to face off with a Cut
Chemist or a Mixmaster Mike.

skip h
np: THE WORLD"S GREATEST SINNER


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new to the list
Date: 01 Feb 2002 22:19:12 -0800



> From: Banjology <[e-mail]>
> Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 20:56:23 -0800 (PST)
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: new to the list
>
> Hi all,
> My name is John. I'm from maine and currently studying
> jazz at the University of Southern Maine. I'm a huge
> zorn fan and even more a fan of Bill Frisell, since i
> play guitar.
> I look forward to talking to you all about this great
> style of music!
>
> John
>
John --
You are best to wear a prtective cup.  This list has gotten ugly lately.
Agree with everybody all the time, hold the avant-garde as sacred and
populated by nothing but perfect godly figures whose musicianship is beyond
reproach, and you too may grow up to be a venerated member.  Here are some
useful tips for your protection:

hot:
70s Miles, free Trane, any Ornette Coleman, speed metal, Bjork, anything on
Erstwhile, anything Marc Ribot plays on, Dave Douglas as a general rule

not:
Tommy Flanagan, Grover Washington, bluegrass music (even Clarence White),
Van Halen, anything Marc Ribot doesn't play on (except the last Tom Waits
album)

the jury is out on:
the last few Frisell discs, Cecil Taylor (in some quarters), Weather Report
(ditto), and whether James Blood Ulmer's last record was all that and a bag
of chips, and which period was Sun Ra's period

you will be shot if:
you dispute the vailidty of Ornette, Bjork, Ayler, music with a large
electronics quotient of any kind, and it is likely best if you keep away
from mentioning any sort of citrus fruits for the time being.

Flaming is bad, unless you flame me, because I dislike Ornette Coleman and
Bjork (instensely, I might add).  I have been singled out for such
blaspheming and flamed like a [insert whatever flames], as I disavow Ornette
Coleman while listening to my vast collection of 1970's horn funk records.
About the only way I get downright rude -- although I once called Bill
Ashline "hard to love" -- is if you write uncomplimentry things about Uri
Caine.  He's so nice.

welcome aboard --
skip heller


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Jazz Punk
Date: 02 Feb 2002 01:19:39 EST

In a message dated 2/1/02 12:50:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Don't know if I'd call Hotel X Jazz-punk so much as jazz rock,  but they
 were a good band and were the ones to crack open my brain enough to
 finally accept fusion.  Ladders is good, as is Uncommon Grounds.  One of
 the few good bands to ever come out of Richmond, and they worked harder
 than most bands I've ever seen, often changing their names every few
 months to re-invent their material running through differnent veins of
 jazz and math rock.  Last I heard, most of them spend their time in Bio
 Ritmo now, a project similar to Ribot's latino stuff that started mostly
 as a joke. >>

So *that's* why Bio Ritmo cooked like they did in the three appearances
they've made to Columbia, SC.   They're a great salsa/hiphop (salsahop?)
putfit that'll have that ass a' shakin', without a doubt.

--
V.A. The Lost Grooves (Rare And Previously Unreleased Slices Of Funk From The
Vaults Of Blue Note 67-70...cookin' stuff!!)

=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: new to the list
Date: 02 Feb 2002 02:04:20 -0500

Well put, Skip. Way to scare the guy off.

Zach


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new to the list
Date: 02 Feb 2002 00:30:45 -0800



> From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 02:04:20 -0500
> To: "'Skip Heller'" <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
> Subject: RE: new to the list
>
> Well put, Skip. Way to scare the guy off.
>
> Zach
>
Likely you've been to a Flyers game by now.  And if you hadn't, believe me,
I wouldn't send you in unprepared.

This past week has been much like that (except without the great Gene Hart
announcing at rinkside).  It would be cruel of us not to let this young man
know up front our potential for collective ugliness.

your good neighbor around the way --
skip h




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bertrand Guggenheim <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: French pock/rop
Date: 02 Feb 2002 09:46:27 +0100

Looks like the  right moment for coming back to the list, even if 46 messages
during the 1st night is a bit hard for me ...

duncan youngerman, I mainly agree with your opinions about french singers.
Veronique Sanson & Patricia Kaas are also amongst the very few I can listen
(my jazz backgrounds ...). But Gainsbourg has hilarious songs and he really
swings. "No Comment" comes to mind, and they are many others ...
You did not mention Henri Salvador. One of the most amazing and totally out
came from the cd Jazz Magazine had with its  last december issue: "I"
(Chanson Surrealiste), a 1948 song.

And I can't resist to mention this other one from Duke: "French jazz is like
american champagne" (but they both improve ....)

Bertrand



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Oger <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Peter Cusak's MY FAVORITE SOUNDS OF LONDON
Date: 02 Feb 2002 12:40:24 +0200

Yes it is a new CD released by LMC (London Musician's Collective).
Mailorder. Visit their website : www.l-m-c.org.uk

Jacques (strange to write you in english!)

>
>From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
>
>    A couple of days ago, Peter Cusak was interviewed on NPR about his new
>project: gathering sounds from London selected by various people. It was not
>clear if this was made on record (no label was mentioned, and I was listening
>to carefully). Does anybody know more on this?
>
>    Thanks,

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bza" <[e-mail]>
Subject: French pock/rop.........post Gainsbourg
Date: 02 Feb 2002 12:37:23 +0100

Hi

I don't listen to much French artist but some has done great albums
recently....

Noir desir always been a good band but the last Noir Desir album is a great
thing for French rock.....a very good album, intelligent, great
lyrics......2001 best french album for sure.

My favorite French artist is Alain Bashung. The last 3 albums from Bashung
are great. There is a constant evolution in Bashung's works and that what
makes him different from the other French band or artist. I personnaly find
that Fantaisie Militaire is the best French album from the 90s. If you
haven't already listen to "La nuit je mens", you definately have to try
it......it's a great, great song.


Following Bashung in my personnal french all of fame there is Dominique A.
As Bashung, there is an evolution in his albums....He started with some
popular hits (like 'twenty-two Bar') but the albums were more complex. Then
his albums became more and more complex so people found them hard-to-listen
but for me all of them are must-have albums.

So if you want to discover some great French artists, try these one up there
!!! :)


Bza


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Oger <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: French pock/rop
Date: 02 Feb 2002 12:40:11 +0200

Well, what is swing ? Can white jazz players swing ? An interesting
question, for blindfold tests fans. Anyway, I agree with you that
many french rappers try to imitate american groups!

BUT, I believe there are some good artists in the french rap scene
who deserve attention. For instance, I think of Kery James. His music
is not an american hip hop copy. He is more influenced by his roots :
african traditional music. Of course, it makes more sense in that
case. If you don't know him, and if you live in France (?), try
listening to him.

Jacques Oger (a little bit surprised to read all these posts about
french singers! My favorite french songs are on the accordeon).

>From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
>
>As for French rappers, I just don't believe them=2E They act angry 'cause
>they saw American rappers act angry and become multi-millionaires=2E
>The whole gospel/ talking-blues tradition that's behind hip-hop is
>entirely foreign to them=2E
>As Duke Ellington used to say: "if it ain't got that swing=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=2E=
>=2E=2E"
>
>Best,
>DY=2E
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new Toop collection (was Cusak...)
Date: 31 Jan 2002 07:09:24 -0500

At 11:36 AM 2/1/02 -0800, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
>    Patrice (also waiting for the new compilation from David Toop).

If this is the Not Necessarily English Music collection I asked about a few
days ago, I'm listening to it now.  By a strange coincidence, this arrived
in my mailbox the day after I posted my inquiry, and if anyone is
interested in the set, I'd highly recommend spending a little extra and
getting the Leonardo Music Journal, which is devoted to this set and
contains a great deal of extra written material (although no convenient
jewel box for the cds).

The music itself is, predictably, rather raw.  Steve Beresford, for
example, has two short tracks, both of which were recorded on 6-inch vinyl
in "Record your own voice" booths in train stations.  The AMM track is from
the same period as the ReR album, but again, a live recording and
considerably low-fi.  There are excellent performances from John Stevens,
Parker & Lytton, Derek Bailey (although this track is also available on one
of his solo Incus releases, the only track here available elsewhere).  The
noisier tracks, like the ones by Daphne Oram and Ranulph Glanville, are
wonderfully reminiscent of the early live electronics from Cage & Tudor,
and have a fresh approach that is missing from many post-modern improv
artists.  More about the set, including track listings, is at
http://www.cdemusic.org/store/cde_search.cfm?keywords=em136.
--

Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tom Gatzen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Zorn-Frith-Lombardo-Laswell-5-21-001
Date: 02 Feb 2002 04:53:31 -0800 (PST)

I have this netcast on MP3 if anyone was interested in
file swapping.
I don't have an FTP, I could transfer the file through
aim or if anyone has an FTP I can upload it on I can
do that too. I have other files to swap that are Zorn
related if anyone is interested in trading let me
know.


Tom

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: Re: new to the list
Date: 02 Feb 2002 14:25:04 +0100 (CET)

Funny message, Skip.

I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who dislikes (to
say the least) Bj÷rk.

John, don't pay attention to Skip's comments, It's
been hard on him lately!! :-)

Best,

EfrΘn del Valle
n.p: Fugazi "Repeater"

_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: new to the list
Date: 02 Feb 2002 08:58:12 EST


--part1_161.82107eb.298d4a74_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 2/2/02 1:17:11 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> John --
> You are best to wear a prtective cup.  This list has gotten ugly lately.
> Agree with everybody all the time, hold the avant-garde as sacred and
> populated by nothing but perfect godly figures whose musicianship is beyond
> reproach, and you too may grow up to be a venerated member.  Here are some
> useful tips for your protection:
>

Skip, which issue of Mad magazine was this (and the rest of it) in? This is
SO us! <G>

Dale.

--part1_161.82107eb.298d4a74_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c0c0c0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">In a message dated 2/2/02 1:17:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">John --<BR>
You are best to wear a prtective cup.  This list has gotten ugly lately.<BR>
Agree with everybody all the time, hold the avant-garde as sacred and<BR>
populated by nothing but perfect godly figures whose musicianship is beyond<BR>
reproach, and you too may grow up to be a venerated member.  Here are some<BR>
useful tips for your protection:<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c0c0c0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BR>
Skip, which issue of Mad magazine was this (and the rest of it) in? This is SO us! <G><BR>
<BR>
Dale.</FONT></HTML>

--part1_161.82107eb.298d4a74_boundary--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Banjology <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new to the list
Date: 02 Feb 2002 07:12:42 -0800 (PST)

You guys will have to do more than that to scare me
off. Though I do agree with all the players you all
like, I have to say the thing about not liking
folk/bluegrass music isn't really that great. I
personally think that it really blends great with
modern jazz. If you don't think so take a listen to
Frisells "Blues Dream". But anyway....i just had to
say that little piece.
Umm so let me say more about what i do. I like i said
play guitar. The stuff I play with my own groups is
pretty modern stuff i think. I use a bunch of
different "sonic" tools when i play (effects) from
fuzz right up to delays a samplers.
I am fortunate enough to know a lot of musicians that
are currently on the scene. Including Bill Frisell,
Dave Douglas, Tony Malaby, Jeff Williams, John
Abercrombie......etc.
So anyway..thats me...i can't wait to here more about
what you folks do.....

John


=====
[e-mail]

AOL Messenger - GtrJazz9
ICQ - 135811954
Yahoo Messenger - GtrJazz9

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: French pock/rop Henri Salvador
Date: 02 Feb 2002 08:12:23 -0800

>Speaking of Henri Salvador, can anyone recommend a good collection
>to start with.  I don't know his music at all,  but I am interested
>in him because of the Boris Vian connection.  I would like to find a
>collection of songs written by Vian and Salvador.  I imagine most of
>this material would be from the mid-50's.

Thanks



--
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject:  Alain Bashung........post Gainsbourg
Date: 02 Feb 2002 08:24:04 -0800

>I know his name, but I don't know his music or albums at all.  Is he
>pop? Is he jazz?
>
>
>-


--
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Alan Lankin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new to the list
Date: 02 Feb 2002 11:28:41 -0500

Lol.  Skip's list should be added to a FAQ for the group...

Alan


Skip Heller wrote:

> You are best to wear a prtective cup.  This list has gotten ugly lately.
> Agree with everybody all the time, hold the avant-garde as sacred and
> populated by nothing but perfect godly figures whose musicianship is beyond
> reproach, and you too may grow up to be a venerated member.  Here are some
> useful tips for your protection:
>
> hot: [etc, ...]



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Alan Lankin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn Live
Date: 02 Feb 2002 11:40:25 -0500

I publishing listings of Philadelphia jazz-related concerts at:

http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz/phillyjazz.html

(I also send out a weekly email of the week's concerts, check the page
for info.)

There's also a philadelphia/baltimore improvised music mailing list.


Alan Lankin

--
Jazzmatazz
http://jazzmatazz.home.att.net
[e-mail]



Andrew Nairn wrote:

> Hello, What web sites do I check for upcoming performances by Zorn (or
> similar music)? (in the New York, Philadelpia, Washington D.C. area)




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rk?= (was: Re: new to the list)
Date: 02 Feb 2002 18:02:25 +0100



EfrΘn del Valle wrote:

>
> I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who dislikes (to
> say the least) Bj÷rk.
>

EfrΘn - count me in; I have also really started disliking her. I loved
the first album, but now her singing just gets on my nerves very big
time.

BTW: did you notice that we are discovering more and more things we do
have in common, EfrΘn? ;-)

patRice

np: Jeff Mills, various Purpose Maker 12"s
nr: Chris Wroblewski, Skin Shows III


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: new to the list
Date: 02 Feb 2002 12:03:28 EST

Welcome to the list, John!

--
=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Perfect Sound Forever <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new to the list
Date: 02 Feb 2002 12:17:40 -0500

On Fri, 01 Feb 2002 22:19:12 -0800, Skip Heller said:

>You are best to wear a prtective cup.  This list has gotten ugly lately.
>Agree with everybody all the time, hold the avant-garde as sacred and
>populated by nothing but perfect godly figures whose musicianship is
>beyond reproach, and you too may grow up to be a venerated member.  Here
>are some useful tips for your protection:

Thank you Skip.  We did need an new FAQ here!  ;-)

Best,
Jason




Perfect Sound Forever
online music magazine
[e-mail]
http://www.furious.com/perfect


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: new to the list
Date: 02 Feb 2002 12:53:07 -0500

>> It would be cruel of us not to let this young man know up front our
potential for collective ugliness.

You might want to add that he shouldn't agree with K8 on anything.  That
will keep him in good graces with the powers that be.

Zach


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Bjornette again?
Date: 02 Feb 2002 18:06:55 +0000


Any word on the rumoured collaboration between Bjork and Ornette?


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Re: deranged rap recommendations
Date: 02 Feb 2002 14:28:18 -0500

I get the feeling that both of the gigs you flagged are trio dates, but I
don't actually know for certain. I'll try to find more details and get back
to you...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Luigi Dallapiccola, 'Canti di liberazione,' Bamberg Sym/Metzmacher
(EMI)

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, January 31, 2002 10:05 AM

>From: <[e-mail]>
>
>Previous night is John McIntire/Ikue Mori/Zeena Parkins, next night is Fred
>Anderson/Marc Ribot/Chad Taylor...)
   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

are they playing as a "special trio" or with different groups? just
curious...


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Jazz punk
Date: 02 Feb 2002 14:32:17 EST

When I saw Ruf der Heimat, with E-L Petrowsky, Thomas Borgmann, Christolph
Winckel, and Willi Keller, I thought to myself "This is like punk rock."  It
was loud (oh, man was it loud), abrasive, in your face, and it rocked too.
The recording that#s out there captured their stage sound pretty well too.
The next evening Broetzmann played with B. W. & K. but I missed that show.

Jerry

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: zorn pc cancelled at carnegie
Date: 02 Feb 2002 15:21:55 EST


dear friends
in case you were planning on zorn, carnegie hall has announced:
 2/27 WDA Cologne:
 (note that the Zorn premiere has been cancelled and
replaced with Takemitsu "Quotation of Dream" and Lutoslawski
"Variations on a Theme of Paganini")

love to all
steve koenig
n.p.: butcher/durrant: the scenic route

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: new to the list
Date: 02 Feb 2002 15:23:23 -0500

Geez, Skip, speed metal went out with skin-tight jeans and white Converse
hi-tops. Metalcore and progressive black metal are where it's at. Duhhh...
get with it! ;-)

;-)!  ;-)!!!

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Karl Amadeus Hartmann, Symphony No. 7, Bamberg Sym/Metzmacher (EMI)

P.S. ;-)!!!!!


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ryan Novak <[e-mail]>
Subject:  Zorn screeches, Screech Zorns (?)
Date: 02 Feb 2002 12:40:22 -0800 (PST)

Hey,

I thought it might be interesting that in the recent
issue The Onion, there's an interview with Dustin
Diamond, who played "Screech" on the TV show "Saved By
the Bell", and in it he says...  "... I like a wide
variety of music.  I like Jaco Pastorius and Joni
Mitchell, but then I like Mr. Bungle, John Zorn, crazy
stuff like that."  Diamond is apparently a musician
himself (bass), and although he obviously wants to go
beyond being Screech, throughout the whole interview I
could only interpret him in that cracking screech
voice.  :~)  Anyway, I'm sure it's online at the
Onion's website if it's of any interest.

---Ryan Novak



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: zorn pc cancelled at carnegie
Date: 02 Feb 2002 15:38:59 -0500

Yeah, I think someone mentioned that Zorn talked about this at Miller
Theatre, saying he cancelled the piece because the Labecque sisters were
meddling too much in the compositional process. But there is another big
Zorn classical performance coming up at Cooper Union: the U.S. premiere of
'Rituals,' paired with two pieces by Charles Wuorinen, performed by the
Eastman School of Music's Musica Nova ensemble on March 9. (And no
Zorn-content, but on the 14th, the very fabulous Marilyn Nonken plays the
complete solo piano works of Pierre Boulez in the same hall... given her
amazing complete Schoenberg a few months back at Miller, this should be
amazing.)

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Karl Amadeus Hartmann, Symphony No. 8, Bamberg Sym/Metzmacher (EMI)

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of
[e-mail]

dear friends
in case you were planning on zorn, carnegie hall has announced:
 2/27 WDA Cologne:
 (note that the Zorn premiere has been cancelled and
replaced with Takemitsu "Quotation of Dream" and Lutoslawski
"Variations on a Theme of Paganini")


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rev. Floyd Heirs" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new to the list
Date: 02 Feb 2002 12:58:47 -0800

>>>Geez, Skip, speed metal went out with skin-tight jeans and
white Converse
hi-tops. Metalcore and progressive black metal are where it's
at.<<<

And footwear?


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Suite
Date: 02 Feb 2002 16:08:45 -0500

I'm trying to remember the name of a composition done in the sixties.
I'm pretty sure Max Roach had a hand in it.  It was something Suite.  I
remember there was a female vocalist that ended screaming towards the
end of the piece.  Any one know the title?

Zach


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "George Scala" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Suite
Date: 02 Feb 2002 16:14:25 -0500

"We Insist!  Freedom Now Suite" was issued on Candid with Abbey Lincoln, is
that what you mean?

George



----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 4:08 PM


> I'm trying to remember the name of a composition done in the sixties.
> I'm pretty sure Max Roach had a hand in it.  It was something Suite.  I
> remember there was a female vocalist that ended screaming towards the
> end of the piece.  Any one know the title?
>
> Zach
>
>
> -
>
>



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Alain Bashung........post Gainsbourg
Date: 02 Feb 2002 13:38:34 -0800



> From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
> Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 08:24:04 -0800
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Alain Bashung........post Gainsbourg
>
>> I know his name, but I don't know his music or albums at all.  Is he
>> pop? Is he jazz?
>>
>>
Fr what I have heard, he's sort of a French roots rocker.  I have his OZEZ
JOSEPHINE (which I believe was recorded in memphis), and it's real good.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new to the list
Date: 02 Feb 2002 13:39:40 -0800



> From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
> Reply-To: <[e-mail]>
> Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 15:23:23 -0500
> To: "'Skip Heller'" <[e-mail]>, "'Banjology'"
> <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
> Subject: RE: new to the list
>
> Geez, Skip, speed metal went out with skin-tight jeans and white Converse
> hi-tops. Metalcore and progressive black metal are where it's at. Duhhh...
> get with it! ;-)
>
> ;-)!  ;-)!!!
>
> Steve Smith
> [e-mail]
> NP - Karl Amadeus Hartmann, Symphony No. 7, Bamberg Sym/Metzmacher (EMI)
>
> P.S. ;-)!!!!!

I simply MUST start keeping up with the digests.

np: Esther Phillips -- CONFESSIN' THE BLUES


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new to the list
Date: 02 Feb 2002 13:42:07 -0800



> From: "Rev. Floyd Heirs" <[e-mail]>
> Reply-To: "Rev. Floyd Heirs" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 12:58:47 -0800
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: new to the list
>
>>>> Geez, Skip, speed metal went out with skin-tight jeans and
> white Converse
> hi-tops. Metalcore and progressive black metal are where it's
> at.<<<
>
> And footwear?
>
I am, at this moment, wearing black Converse hi-tops.  So I guess it must be
some sort of post-Air Jordan thing.

sh


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Zorn screeches, Screech Zorns (?)
Date: 02 Feb 2002 16:58:09 -0500

Wondered if anyone else would catch that. I loved his final quote:

"The stuff I listen to in my provate collection, it's what moves me, makes
me want to play. I want to make other people feel like I feel when I listen
to that music. Whether other people like it or criticize it - even if
there's only 10 people on the planet that love it, you're touching 10 people
that way. There probably is a lot of music that no one's ever gonna hear.
For anyone doing music, just do exactly what it is that makes you want to do
it. If you like listening to odd, strange, bizarre noise and that makes you
want to create it, do it. Even if everyone around you tells you it's crap or
thinks it won't work, someone out there is going to appreciate it."

If ever we print up a Zornlist t-shirt, I vote for Screech's face on the
front.

BTW, since we're talking about mainstream media sightings, there's a pretty
terrific overview of Mike Patton's career in the new issue of Revolver
(P.O.D. on the cover), a glossy mag which has gone metal in recent months.
Don't know what's funnier, Patton's unflinching slam at all the nu-metal
bands that have cropped up in the wake of Faith No More, or members of those
same bands offering their heartfelt testimonials to Patton's influence. The
writer even gets a sizeable quote from Zorn.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Khanate, "Under Rotting Sky" (downloaded via AGSatellite)

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Ryan Novak

I thought it might be interesting that in the recent
issue The Onion, there's an interview with Dustin
Diamond, who played "Screech" on the TV show "Saved By
the Bell", and in it he says...  "... I like a wide
variety of music.  I like Jaco Pastorius and Joni
Mitchell, but then I like Mr. Bungle, John Zorn, crazy
stuff like that."  Diamond is apparently a musician
himself (bass), and although he obviously wants to go
beyond being Screech, throughout the whole interview I
could only interpret him in that cracking screech
voice.  :~)  Anyway, I'm sure it's online at the
Onion's website if it's of any interest.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "David Beardsley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn screeches, Screech Zorns (?)
Date: 02 Feb 2002 17:04:58 -0500

----- Original Message -----

> BTW, since we're talking about mainstream media sightings, there's a
pretty
> terrific overview of Mike Patton's career in the new issue of Revolver
> (P.O.D. on the cover), a glossy mag which has gone metal in recent months.

I think they went metal after their first issue!


* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Suite
Date: 02 Feb 2002 17:24:42 -0500 (EST)

Wow, Zach, what clues:

What you're probably think of is an Impulse session
called Percussion Bittersweet, recorded withg Eric
Dolphy et al. The female vocalist "screaming" on
"Mendacity" is Abbey Lincoln. Roach wrote a coupole of
other suyites around that time, I can give more info
if that isn't ir.

Ken Waxman


--- Zachary Steiner <[e-mail]> wrote:
> I'm trying to remember the name of a composition
> done in the sixties.
> I'm pretty sure Max Roach had a hand in it.  It was
> something Suite.  I
> remember there was a female vocalist that ended
> screaming towards the
> end of the piece.  Any one know the title?
>
> Zach
>
>
> -
>


=====
Ken Waxman
[e-mail]
www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos

______________________________________________________________________
Web-hosting solutions for home and business! http://website.yahoo.ca

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Jazz Punk
Date: 02 Feb 2002 17:28:01 EST


--part1_168.826ac7a.298dc1f1_boundary
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In a message dated 2/1/2002 5:42:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> and Elliot Sharp's Moving
> Information(w/Percy Jones, Art Baron etc),

sill looking for a copy of that tape.  Did Elliot ever release it on CD ?
Wanna burn me a copy ?

Jody

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/1/2002 5:42:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">and Elliot Sharp's Moving <BR>
Information(w/Percy Jones, Art Baron etc),</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
sill looking for a copy of that tape.  Did Elliot ever release it on CD ?  Wanna burn me a copy ?<BR>
<BR>
Jody</FONT></HTML>

--part1_168.826ac7a.298dc1f1_boundary--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Zorn plays Zappa
Date: 02 Feb 2002 17:35:32 EST

I cant remember if i told this little story here or not, but when i was
working at the bell atlantic jazz fest a few years ago, where Zorn, Frith,
Lombardo and Laswell played... during soundcheck i was bullshitting with fred
frith (trying not to sound like a big fan who owns almost all of his solo
records....) the name Zappa came up.  Zorn was like Yeah ! Zappa !! then he
starts mouthing the riffs to peaches n Regalia while Frith was kinda faking
it on guitar.  Good stuff......

-Jody

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Weather Report
Date: 02 Feb 2002 17:42:22 EST


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In a message dated 1/31/2002 11:39:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> > For me Live In Tokyo is the one. This is an early
> > version of the band
> > tearing it up in 1972. Close to (dare I use the
> > phrase?) free jazz at times.
>
> What label is this on, and has it been issued on CD?

Weather Report:  one of the greatest groups of musicians that ever existed.
Live in Tokyo was released on CD in Japan, if you look around you'll find it.
 That one featured the very under-rated Eric Gravatt on drums.... any live
tape with him is sure to be killing.... I just read almost all of the weather
report postings here (among the other 960 emails in my inbox... i just read
the ones with interesting looking subjects... interspersed with other emails
with subjects like "Get big, ripped and strong" ... does that stuff actually
work???)

-Jody

-Jody

--part1_125.b393470.298dc54e_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 1/31/2002 11:39:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">> For me Live In Tokyo is the one. This is an early<BR>
> version of the band<BR>
> tearing it up in 1972. Close to (dare I use the<BR>
> phrase?) free jazz at times.<BR>
<BR>
What label is this on, and has it been issued on CD?</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Weather Report:  one of the greatest groups of musicians that ever existed.  Live in Tokyo was released on CD in Japan, if you look around you'll find it.  That one featured the very under-rated Eric Gravatt on drums.... any live tape with him is sure to be killing.... I just read almost all of the weather report postings here (among the other 960 emails in my inbox... i just read the ones with interesting looking subjects... interspersed with other emails with subjects like "Get big, ripped and strong" ... does that stuff actually work???)<BR>
<BR>
-Jody<BR>
<BR>
-Jody</FONT></HTML>

--part1_125.b393470.298dc54e_boundary--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new to the list/WR
Date: 03 Feb 2002 00:23:00 +0100

>
>
>
> the jury is out on:
> the last few Frisell discs, Cecil Taylor (in some quarters), Weather Report

As far as I've been reading (and writing), the jury has unanimously raised its
thumb at WR.

(which doesnt mean everyone passionately loves every single thing they (or
anyone else!) ever recorded and which takes into account the bloke who did'nt
know half a thing about Jaco's "Punk jazz".)

DY.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Fwd: Weather Report
Date: 02 Feb 2002 18:53:02 EST


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In a message dated 2/2/02 4:43:24 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<<  For me Live In Tokyo is the one. This is an early
> > version of the band
> > tearing it up in 1972. Close to (dare I use the
> > phrase?) free jazz at times.
>
> What label is this on, and has it been issued on CD? >>

The second half of columbia's re-release on cd of "I Sing the Body Electric"
has three tracks from a live concert in tokyo in 1972.  What's on Live in
Tokyo that isn't on the columbia release?  (consequently, it was the live
material from "I Sing" that I dug the most when first listening to the album).
eriedell


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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 1/31/2002 11:39:19 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> > For me Live In Tokyo is the one. This is an early
> > version of the band
> > tearing it up in 1972. Close to (dare I use the
> > phrase?) free jazz at times.
>
> What label is this on, and has it been issued on CD?

Weather Report:  one of the greatest groups of musicians that ever existed.
Live in Tokyo was released on CD in Japan, if you look around you'll find it.
 That one featured the very under-rated Eric Gravatt on drums.... any live
tape with him is sure to be killing.... I just read almost all of the weather
report postings here (among the other 960 emails in my inbox... i just read
the ones with interesting looking subjects... interspersed with other emails
with subjects like "Get big, ripped and strong" ... does that stuff actually
work???)

-Jody

-Jody

--part1_125.b393470.298dc54e_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 1/31/2002 11:39:19 AM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE>> For me Live In Tokyo is the one. This is an early<BR>
> version of the band<BR>
> tearing it up in 1972. Close to (dare I use the<BR>
> phrase?) free jazz at times.<BR>
<BR>
What label is this on, and has it been issued on CD?</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Weather Report:  one of the greatest groups of musicians that ever existed.  Live in Tokyo was released on CD in Japan, if you look around you'll find it.  That one featured the very under-rated Eric Gravatt on drums.... any live tape with him is sure to be killing.... I just read almost all of the weather report postings here (among the other 960 emails in my inbox... i just read the ones with interesting looking subjects... interspersed with other emails with subjects like "Get big, ripped and strong" ... does that stuff actually work???)<BR>
<BR>
-Jody<BR>
<BR>
-Jody</FONT></HTML>

--part1_125.b393470.298dc54e_boundary--

--part1_68.1ad2d44e.298dd5de_boundary--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jason J. Tar" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Susie Ibarra Trio?
Date: 02 Feb 2002 19:12:51 -0500

At 04:53 PM 2/2/2002 -0700, you wrote:
I saw Songbird Suite at the local shop and it looked interesting, but
unfortunately Tzadik's website has no samples.  Perhaps anyone here might
have heard and can describe this?  I've never heard of Susie Ibarra before,
so....  How much input does Mori have?

THanks.


---
Peace Hugs and Unity                    Jason J. Tar
                 W.      W.      J.      D?
                        (What would Jason Do?)
                          ICQ@13792120



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: David Keffer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Review:  Jim O'Rourke:  =?iso-8859-1?Q?I=B4m_?= Happy, And
Date: 02 Feb 2002 19:59:42 -0500

A few months ago, I asked for the list for reviews on O'Rourke's album
"Insignificance" (Drag City, 2001).  I think there was one or two posters
who had heard the album and gave it a thumbs down.  Based on this
information, I did not purchase it.  However, since that time I have had
the opportunity to hear it and, in its defense, I have to say that it is
not at all a wretched record.  A couple of the songs are nice and
marginally catchy pop songs.  The chief flaw of the record is that it is a
relatively pale imitation of "Bad Timing" released three or four years
earlier. =20

That said, I maintained some interest in O'Rourke's most recent record
because (i) it's not a pop song, (ii) he doesn't sing on it, and (iii) it
has a nice title.  So here is a review.

Label:MEGO 050
Artist: Jim O=B4Rourke
Title: I=B4m Happy, And I=B4m Singing, And a 1,2,3,4
Release: January, 2002

To my knowledge, I don't think I have a solo computer record by anyone.  It
seems that those records just aren't my cup of tea.  However, I have
listened to this album four or five times since I have had it all the way
through (an unprecedented event for me with this sort of record).  It's
very listenable, very accessible, and sort of fun.  To be honest, I was
afraid that a solo computer album was going to have a lot of digital
gadgetry that may be pressing the frontiers of experimental music but is
dull to sit down and listen to for 40 minutes.  So, I was pleasantly
surprised at the musical extent of all three tracks.  Very musical, very
melodic (given the fact that its a solo computer project).  This cd harkens
back to O'Rourke's earlier composer days, which were fine and enlightening
days indeed.  Here I am thinking of "A Young Person's Guide To Drowning" on
"Disengage" (Staaltape/Korm Plastics, STCD 048/KP 4294, 1992) & "Scend"
(Divided, DIV01, 1992). =20

To better explain what I am getting at, I should compare "I=B4m Happy, And
I=B4m Singing, And a 1,2,3,4" to "The Magic Sound of Fenno'Berg" (Mego 031),
which also was released on Mego in 1999, which featured O'Rourke, Christian
Fennesz, and Peter Rehberg, and which I have never made it all the way
through.  That record is a pastiche of gimmicky computer bits that is
totally uninteresting to me.  So, if you thought "The Magic Sound of
Fenno'Berg" was a very fine record (and there have been many positive
things said of it on this list) then bear in mind that "I=B4m Happy, And I=
=B4m
Singing, And a 1,2,3,4" isn't much like it.

That's all.

David K.



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: David Keffer <[e-mail]>
Subject: G.F. Fitzgerald
Date: 02 Feb 2002 19:59:50 -0500


I recently got my hands on a copy of
Caroline Records C 1518 Guitar solos 2
Derek Bailey/Fred Frith/G.F. Fitzgerald/Hans Reichel
All tracks recorded in December 1975 or January 1976.

It is a very fine record but one peculiar thing is that
three of these four guitarists are luminaries in their
field and the other I have never heard of outside this
record.  Does anyone know who G.F. Fitzgerald is/was
and how he came to be on a compilation with these other
three superstars?

David K.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Susie Ibarra Trio?
Date: 02 Feb 2002 20:42:11 -0500

on 2/2/02 7:12 PM, Jason J. Tar at [e-mail] wrote:

 I've never heard of Susie Ibarra before,
> so....

Should we allow this guy to stay on the list?

--Mike


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjornette again?
Date: 02 Feb 2002 20:56:24 -0500

on 2/2/02 1:06 PM, thomas chatterton at [e-mail] wrote:

>
> Any word on the rumoured collaboration between Bjork and Ornette?
>
>
They've been trying to get Skip Heller to produce it, but so far, no go.

--Mike


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Susie Ibarra Trio?
Date: 02 Feb 2002 17:57:45 -0800

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Mike Chamberlain
> Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 5:42 PM

> on 2/2/02 7:12 PM, Jason J. Tar at [e-mail] wrote:
>
>  I've never heard of Susie Ibarra before,
> > so....
>
> Should we allow this guy to stay on the list?

Jeez, winks and grins are a little difficult to communicate over e-mail.
Don't scare the guy off!

I've only had the chance to listen to "Songbird Suite" once, so I can't say
very much. But Ikue Mori plays on 3 tracks. The album sounds very... [gropes
for word] ...fragile, in a way, with lots of cymbals and wisps of violin.

I almost wrote that it was psychically reminiscent of, um, "Vespertine," but
I didn't want to incur the wrath of Skip and Efren. =)

But "Songbird Suite" is in marked contrast, I think, to "Radiance" (also
mostly with piano and violin, but with Charles Burnham and Cooper-Moore),
which has a more muscular, aggressive sound to it. And the best cover of
Hendrix's "Up from the Skies" since Rickie Lee Jones's on "Pop Pop."

Later,
Ben

http://members.tripod.com/~tamad2/
ICQ/AIM: thewilyfilipino


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjornette again?
Date: 02 Feb 2002 18:05:14 -0800



> From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
> Date: Sat, 02 Feb 2002 20:56:24 -0500
> To: thomas chatterton <[e-mail]>,
> <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: Bjornette again?
>
>>
>> Any word on the rumoured collaboration between Bjork and Ornette?
>>
>>
> They've been trying to get Skip Heller to produce it, but so far, no go.
>
> --Mike
>
There is not enough money to get me to sit through anything that promises to
be that unpleasant.

The funniest assessment of Bjork I've heard -- "The Sinead O'Connor of the
technoid generation."

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Susie Ibarra Trio?
Date: 02 Feb 2002 18:09:00 -0800



> From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 17:57:45 -0800
> To: "Zorn List" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: RE: Susie Ibarra Trio?
>
> I didn't want to incur the wrath of Skip and Efren. =)
>
> But "Songbird Suite" is in marked contrast, I think, to "Radiance" (also
> mostly with piano and violin, but with Charles Burnham and Cooper-Moore),
> which has a more muscular, aggressive sound to it. And the best cover of
> Hendrix's "Up from the Skies" since Rickie Lee Jones's on "Pop Pop."
>
> Later,
> Ben

Anytime there's a bad cover of Hendrix -- Ribot's "Wind Cries Mary" or
Byron's "If Six Was Nine" from someone I respect, I get pissed off, because
while I avoided listening to Hendrix like the plague when I was coming up,
the guy's songwriting is inescapable.

My fav Hendrix covers -- the Rickie Lee among them (POP POP as a whole was
just great), as well as a gorgeous bootleg of Stevie Ray Vaughan playing
"Little Wing" solo (accoustic twelve string no less).

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Susie Ibarra Trio?
Date: 02 Feb 2002 22:04:18 -0500

on 02.02.02 8:42 PM, Mike Chamberlain at [e-mail] wrote:

> on 2/2/02 7:12 PM, Jason J. Tar at [e-mail] wrote:
>
> I've never heard of Susie Ibarra before,
>> so....
>
> Should we allow this guy to stay on the list?
>
> --Mike

No. Make him memorize Susie's recordings in order of session date before he
can say another gawddam word:

http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/IBARRA.disc.html

I'm dead serious,
RL
----------
[  All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k  ]

Sessionographies :
CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.

Discographies :
COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN.

Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag;
ETC.,
----------
*** THINGS 4 SALE ***  [Updated: 01.12.01]
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/ChipsInCashing.html




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rev. Floyd Heirs" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjornette again?
Date: 02 Feb 2002 19:26:19 -0800

Bjork is the shit, man. Her performance at LA's Dorothy Chandler
Pavilion was worth twice the ticket price. Absolutely stunning.
And her voice is magnificent. Icelandish, but sublime. And Zeena
with her no less.

np: The Fire Tale - Borah Bergman/Evan Parker


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Bjornette again?
Date: 02 Feb 2002 22:34:29 -0500

>> Bjork is the shit, man. Her performance at LA's Dorothy Chandler
Pavilion was worth twice the ticket price.

Was she wearing the swan?

Zach


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: G.F. Fitzgerald
Date: 03 Feb 2002 03:50:07 +0000

>From: David Keffer <[e-mail]>
>
  Does anyone know who G.F. Fitzgerald is/was
>and how he came to be on a compilation with these other
>three superstars?

Part of the late '60s Canterbury jazz-rock scene, had a band with Geoff
Leigh (flute & sax player later in Henry Cow, hence the Frith connection)
called Mouseproof, did a solo album with the same name that also featured
underrated sax player Lyn Dobson (later in Soft Machine); I thought
Cuneiform was supposed to put out a new record by him?

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: new to the list
Date: 03 Feb 2002 04:20:04 EST


In a message dated 2/2/02 12:53:40 PM, [e-mail] writes:

>You might want to add that he shouldn't agree with K8 on anything.  That
>will keep him in good graces with the powers that be.
>

[scoff, cough, gag, heave...]  who are the powers that be, anyways?

k8.  <--- lowerCASE k.


-----
[ .n o t h i n g  i s  w h a t  i s  s a i d. ]

.k a t e  p e t e r s o n.
.c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r.
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>
<A HREF="http://www.icefoundation.org">http://www.icefoundation.org</A>
(roundtable)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: G.F. Fitzgerald
Date: 03 Feb 2002 10:49:05 +0100

David wrote:

Does anyone know who G.F. Fitzgerald is/was
and how he came to be on a compilation with these other
three superstars?

David K.

-
I suspect Hans Reichel would be very disturbed when you called him a
superstar. As for Fred Frith, he was in the top 40 once, he arranged Robert
Wyatt's I'm a believer single.

Bye, Remco


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Susie Ibarra Trio?
Date: 03 Feb 2002 11:03:25 +0100

>
> I've never heard of Susie Ibarra before,
>> so....
>
Susie Ibarra belongs to the group of musicians around David S. Ware, Matthew
Ship and William Parker.

Check out the record label she runs with her husband, saxofonist Assif
Tsahar. Ibarra is mainly a free jazz drummer, although her duo record with
Tsahar 'Home Cookin' makes good use of all kinds of instruments laying
around the Ibarra/Tsahar house.

May, in a few years, the young Ibarra/ Tsahar couple get two or three kids:
I would surely buy their family cd-album.

Regards, Remco Takken


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn plays Zappa
Date: 03 Feb 2002 10:43:57 +0100

Jody wrote:
the name Zappa came up.  Zorn was like Yeah ! Zappa !! then he
starts mouthing the riffs to peaches n Regalia while Frith was kinda faking
it on guitar.  Good stuff......

-Jody
-
On early Henry Cow albums with Fred Frith you can just hear echoes of
Zappa's Burnt Weany Sandwich, Uncle Meat and Weasels Ripped My Flesh
concepts. Part of Frith comes from early Zappa, but ofcourse he drew from
innumerable other sources to enrichen his work.

Frith's tendency to release orchestra stuff in later life might even point
to a similar development (both Zappa and Frith are autodidacts).

In the movie STEP ACROSS THE BORDER, Frith talks about the total and utter
Beatles obsession he had when he was young. Now there's an influence I
wouldn't come up with when listening to Frith!

As for Zorn, in managing Tzadik, he is just as witty and commercial as Zappa
was: both created a great, recognisable brand, where musically everything
could happen.

In both cases, especially compared to other contemporary composers, their
stuff sells fairly well. Zorn maybe somewhat less than Zappa. But then
again, both Zorns own output, as well as the complete Tzadik catalogue, are
much bigger than Zappa's output as a leader and producer.

Regards,
Remco Takken


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: mark dresser trio was tonight...
Date: 03 Feb 2002 04:52:23 EST

friends, zornfans, worldlypersons,

i wish you all could have been at mark dresser trio tonight.  although i got
in free i would have GLADLY paid $50 for that ticket because it was so
completely perfect.  accompaniment to 4 films...  un chien andalou,
chronicles of an asthmatic stripper, and the two moisture project films.
aside from the dali, mark dresser wrote the music FIRST and then the film was
made afterwards for his music, and it was so fucking cool.  and the little
'soundtrack' the trio provided for un chien was plausibly the best live
accompaniment i have ever seen to a silent film.  ever.

this was only the second gig they've played with the 4 films.  when/if it
comes to where you are, Go See It.  i promise, it's worth it.

plus, they opened with three tunes and closed with a really nice one.  oh
yeah, it ruled.

love,
  k8.


-----
[ .n o t h i n g  i s  w h a t  i s  s a i d. ]

.k a t e  p e t e r s o n.
.c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r.
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>
<A HREF="http://www.icefoundation.org">http://www.icefoundation.org</A>
(roundtable)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "dekater" <[e-mail]>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Bj=F6rk_=28was:_Re:_new_to_the_list=29?=
Date: 03 Feb 2002 12:03:43 +0100

OK Efren

I like Spain a lot and dislike Bjork

Jan Luyben
----- Original Message -----
Cc: <[e-mail]>
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 6:02 PM


>
>
> EfrΘn del Valle wrote:
>
> >
> > I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who dislikes (to
> > say the least) Bj÷rk.
> >
>
> EfrΘn - count me in; I have also really started disliking her. I loved
> the first album, but now her singing just gets on my nerves very big
> time.
>
> BTW: did you notice that we are discovering more and more things we do
> have in common, EfrΘn? ;-)
>
> patRice
>
> np: Jeff Mills, various Purpose Maker 12"s
> nr: Chris Wroblewski, Skin Shows III
>
>
> -
>
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "dekater" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: French pock/rop Henri Salvador
Date: 03 Feb 2002 12:02:12 +0100

I believe this has been discussed before. There's an excellent compilation
of Viansongs by various interpreters (including Vian himself). The box
exists of 6 cd's. One of them contains "Chansons Rock" with a.o. Henri
Salvador (using the name Henry Cording for the occasion). Vian and Salvador
composed in a nick of time lot of rocksongs after they heard this kind of
music on import lp's. They laughed their heads off and just couldn't believe
this was meant to be serious. Needless to say that songs and texts are very
funny. The box appeared on Polygram and is still available. When you read
French you should also get the book "Chansons" (Ed. Christian Bourgois)
which contains all songtexts Vian has written.
Jan Luyben
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2002 5:12 PM


> >Speaking of Henri Salvador, can anyone recommend a good collection
> >to start with.  I don't know his music at all,  but I am interested
> >in him because of the Boris Vian connection.  I would like to find a
> >collection of songs written by Vian and Salvador.  I imagine most of
> >this material would be from the mid-50's.
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> --
> Tosh Berman
> TamTam Books
> http://www.tamtambooks.com
>
> -
>
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "David Beardsley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Susie Ibarra Trio?
Date: 03 Feb 2002 07:56:37 -0500


----- Original Message -----

> > I've never heard of Susie Ibarra before,
> >> so....
> >
> Susie Ibarra belongs to the group of musicians around David S. Ware,
Matthew
> Ship and William Parker.
>
> Check out the record label she runs with her husband, saxofonist Assif
> Tsahar. Ibarra is mainly a free jazz drummer, although her duo record with
> Tsahar 'Home Cookin' makes good use of all kinds of instruments laying
> around the Ibarra/Tsahar house.
>
> May, in a few years, the young Ibarra/ Tsahar couple get two or three
kids:
> I would surely buy their family cd-album.

Ain't gonna happen. They haven't been together for a while.


* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Susie Ibarra Trio?
Date: 03 Feb 2002 07:53:46 -0500

on 02.02.03 5:03 AM, Remco Takken at [e-mail] wrote:

>>
>> I've never heard of Susie Ibarra before,
>>> so....
>>
> Susie Ibarra belongs to the group of musicians around David S. Ware, Matthew
> Ship and William Parker.

Well, she was up until a few years ago, but there was a split, and now she
is most definitely *not* w/ any Ware 4tet folk.

> Check out the record label she runs with her husband, saxofonist Assif
> Tsahar. Ibarra is mainly a free jazz drummer, although her duo record with
> Tsahar 'Home Cookin' makes good use of all kinds of instruments laying
> around the Ibarra/Tsahar house.
>
> May, in a few years, the young Ibarra/ Tsahar couple get two or three kids:
> I would surely buy their family cd-album.

In addition, she and Assif split a few years ago. (But Home Cookin' is still
a good recommendation)

You're behind the times, Remco! ;-)

RL
----------
[  All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k  ]

Sessionographies :
CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.

Discographies :
COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN.

Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag;
ETC.,
----------
*** THINGS 4 SALE ***  [Updated: 01.12.01]
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/ChipsInCashing.html




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Susie Ibarra Trio?
Date: 03 Feb 2002 15:32:25 +0100

Rick Lopez wrote:
Remco Takken wrote:
>>> Susie Ibarra belongs to the group of musicians around David S. Ware,
Matthew Ship and William Parker.

>Well, she was up until a few years ago, but there was a split, and now she
is most definitely *not* w/ any Ware 4tet folk.

>>> May, in a few years, the young Ibarra/ Tsahar couple get two or three
kids:
>>> I would surely buy their family cd-album.

>In addition, she and Assif split a few years ago. (But Home Cookin' is
still
a good recommendation)

>You're behind the times, Remco! ;-)

I sure am, what a shame. Would you believe Susie Ibarra played her Dutch
debut in 2001?? When the end of the world's coming, be sure to visit
Holland, Rick, we walk behind in everything.

Remco



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: re: G.F. Fitzgerald
Date: 03 Feb 2002 09:44:39 EST

>I thought
>Cuneiform was supposed to put out a new record by him?

You certainly didn't hear the above from us.

Steve
Cuneiform Records

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Music theory (NZC)
Date: 03 Feb 2002 19:32:33 +0000


"There is no theory. You have only to listen. Pleasure is the law."  Claude
Debussy

np: Monk 'I Should Care'



_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: new O'Rourke
Date: 03 Feb 2002 12:37:57 -0700

=20

G=FCnter M=FCller's review was that "i am happy..." is great music for =
driving
in your car except the drum crescendo at the end which he fades out =
each
time he listens.

Matt

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: new to the list
Date: 03 Feb 2002 14:39:09 -0500

The powers that be are the old-timeys.  You gotta love that old-timey
music...

Zach


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rob Allaert <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn-Frith-Lombardo-Laswell-5-21-001
Date: 03 Feb 2002 22:19:38 +0100

You should just join the ZornListGalaxy on www.audiogalaxy.com to do just
that and more. Welcome!

Rob, group owner.


On zaterdag, februari 2, 2002, at 01:53 , Tom Gatzen wrote:

> I have this netcast on MP3 if anyone was interested in
> file swapping.
> I don't have an FTP, I could transfer the file through
> aim or if anyone has an FTP I can upload it on I can
> do that too. I have other files to swap that are Zorn
> related if anyone is interested in trading let me
> know.
>
>
> Tom


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: new O'Rourke
Date: 03 Feb 2002 14:46:13 -0700

=20
sorry...

...you're right.  I haven't actually heard either but it was
"insignificance" and not "I am happy..." which the comment was aimed =
at.

thanks for the correction.
Matt


-----Original Message-----
Sent: 2/3/2002 2:24 PM

are you sure this was about "i'm happy..."? there's no drum crescendo =
in
there. there is one at the end of insignificance, tho. and i always
decrease
the sound each time i listen to it.

I found "I'm happy..." to be a pretty enjoyable album. Very cool and
reflected. Very calm, and the last song makes it also very quiet.

davidf=E9lix

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 7:37 PM




G=FCnter M=FCller's review was that "i am happy..." is great music for
driving
in your car except the drum crescendo at the end which he fades out =
each
time he listens.

Matt

-



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: Enrico Pieranunzi
Date: 04 Feb 2002 00:04:14 +0100


Hi boys & girls...

Anyone heard the following release yet:

Enrico Pieranunzi (piano), Marc Johnson (bass) & Joey Baron play
Morricone.

Any comments?
Worth purchasing or not?

Pieranunzi used to play on the original Morricone soundtracks, as far as
I know...

patRice

np: Underground Resistance, various vinyl 12"s
nr: Tony Cohen, Tattoo


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20Bj=F6rk=20(was:=20Re:=20new=20to=20the=20li?=
Date: 03 Feb 2002 19:57:43 EST


--part1_146.8e98e93.298f3687_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 2/3/2002 5:18:42 AM Central Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> I like Spain a lot and dislike Bjork


i like vermont a lot and dislike barry manilow.

love,
  k8.




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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/3/2002 5:18:42 AM Central Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I like Spain a lot and dislike Bjork</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">i like vermont a lot and dislike barry manilow.<BR>
<BR>
love,<BR>
  k8.<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_146.8e98e93.298f3687_boundary--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: new to the list
Date: 03 Feb 2002 19:59:15 EST


--part1_d0.21bd1cdf.298f36e3_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 2/3/2002 1:39:42 PM Central Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> The powers that be are the old-timeys.  You gotta love that old-timey
> music...


damn.  you're right.  that kinda music just *soothes* my soul...

k8.




--part1_d0.21bd1cdf.298f36e3_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/3/2002 1:39:42 PM Central Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">The powers that be are the old-timeys.  You gotta love that old-timey<BR>
music...</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">damn.  you're right.  that kinda music just *soothes* my soul...<BR>
<BR>
k8.<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_d0.21bd1cdf.298f36e3_boundary--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bj=?ISO-8859-1?B?9g==?=rk (was: Re: new to the list)
Date: 03 Feb 2002 20:02:06 -0500

on 02.02.03 7:57 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

> In a message dated 2/3/2002 5:18:42 AM Central Standard Time,
> [e-mail] writes:
>
>
>> I like Spain a lot and dislike Bjork
>
>
> i like vermont a lot and dislike barry manilow.
>
> love,
> k8.

I've never been to Vermont *or* Spain, Manilow gives me buboes, and Bjork
makes me weep with joy.

I don't understand what's not to love with the Bjorkmeister???

I welcome any and all perspectives,
RL
----------
[  All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k  ]

Sessionographies :
CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.

Discographies :
COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN.

Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag;
ETC.,
----------
*** THINGS 4 SALE ***  [Updated: 01.12.01]
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/ChipsInCashing.html




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_Bj=F6rk_=28was:_Re:_new_to_the_list=29?=
Date: 03 Feb 2002 22:12:53 -0500

>> I don't understand what's not to love with the Bjorkmeister???

Dancer in the Dark?

zach


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bj=?ISO-8859-1?B?9g==?=rk (was: Re: new to the list)
Date: 03 Feb 2002 22:25:22 -0500

on 02.02.03 10:12 PM, Zachary Steiner at [e-mail] wrote:

>>> I don't understand what's not to love with the Bjorkmeister???
>
> Dancer in the Dark?
>
> zach

But! Those *glasses* !

How could you,
RL
----------
[  All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k  ]

Sessionographies :
CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.

Discographies :
COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN.

Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag;
ETC.,
----------
*** THINGS 4 SALE ***  [Updated: 01.12.01]
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/ChipsInCashing.html




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Z-List Smart Shopper
Date: 04 Feb 2002 04:21:52 +0000


Thanks to the recent discussions on this list, I was able to make an
informed choice from the cheap CD selection in a local department store:

NRBQ - Message For The Mess Age
Cherry/Redman/Haden/Blackwell - Old And New Dreams


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rev. Freud Hairs" <[e-mail]>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Bj=F6rk_=28was:_Re:_new_to_the_list=29?=
Date: 03 Feb 2002 20:23:14 -0800

>>>Dancer in the Dark?<<<

I really paid little attention to her music until I saw her
performance in that movie. After seeing the movie I vowed to see
her next LA show. I have no problem understanding why she grates
on some sensibilities. But, for me, she is numinous and sublime.
All this and Zeena, too.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Fal=E7ata-Galia_and_Tariff_Records?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Finally arrived releases at FG!!
Date: 03 Feb 2002 21:07:35 -0800

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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Hi folks;

I'm the bearer of a little bit of good news today!  I have received
(FINALLY) the long-threatened CDs I've been mentioning (writers, you know
who you are, are being sent some next week).  Here's a list of what's out...

FAL╟-0005 Pastlife: Mind-Machine - The Mourn of Angels
Los Angeles-based project in the vein of Cold Meat Industry sounds, but more
filmic in its scope.  Terrifying sounds, black ambience, the feel one gets
watching a Svankmajer animation...
FAL╟-0006 Jeffrey Kinart - Swimming In The Amniotic
Another Los Angelino, manager of the band MINISTRY, and following in the
dilletante tradition of Brian Eno.  The recorded sounds were produced after
experimenting on fetal stimulation with his soon-to-be-born daughter and
wife, producing very soothing, free-floating sounds...
FAL╟-0007 Frode Gjerstad Trio - Last First
Norway's giant of the free jazz community, recording with the "Last First"
trio of young and talented Stavanger scene.
FAL╟-0018 Farflung - When Science Fails
Forget all you know about Farflung, and dive into this release, their magnum
opus.  The album Can never made...
FAL╟-0024 Frode Gjerstad & Nick Stephens - North Atlantic Drift
Frode's second release for the label, collaborating with British bassist
Stephens, combining for some torrid, yet controlled, free jazz workouts...
FAL╟-0028 Stefan Dill Trio - Run For Heaven
The jazz power trio from Hell!  Mahavishnu battling Broetzmann in a steel
cage.  Vicious chops, dextrous guitar playing, and a solid rhythm section
make this an essential release for guitar jazz fans.
FAL╟-0033 Andrew D'Angelo and Jaime Fennelly - Terpsichorea #2
Laptop improvisational music from two of Downtown New York's most creative
(and very active) performers.  Wildly adept playing mixed with great
real-time laptop programming...

Available currently through Subterranean Distribution, soon through Forced
Exposure and NorthCountry.  For further details, visit the websites listed
below.

Regards,

Rudy Carrera
Falτata-Galia and Tariff Records
PO Box 134
Rialto, California 92377 USA
http://www.falcata-galia.com
http://www.tariffrecords.com



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------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C1ACF6.CD80D7F0--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Z-List Smart Shopper
Date: 03 Feb 2002 22:26:09 -0800



> From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 04:21:52 +0000
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Z-List Smart Shopper
>
>
> Thanks to the recent discussions on this list, I was able to make an
> informed choice from the cheap CD selection in a local department store:
>
> NRBQ - Message For The Mess Age
> Cherry/Redman/Haden/Blackwell - Old And New Dreams
>
MESSAGE is not my ideal starting point for the Q, but "Ramona" and
"Everybody Thinks I'm Crazy" are just pop gems, and "Spampinato" gives you a
front view to their more, um, whimsical side.

That first Old & New Dreams is one of my fav records for Cherry, too.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bj=?ISO-8859-1?B?9g==?=rk (was: Re: new to the list)
Date: 03 Feb 2002 22:27:16 -0800



> From: "Rev. Freud Hairs" <[e-mail]>
> Reply-To: "Rev. Freud Hairs" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Sun, 3 Feb 2002 20:23:14 -0800
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: Bj=F6rk (was: Re: new to the list)
>=20
> All this and Zeena, too.

As the Parkins girls go, I'm more an Andrea fan.  I love accordions played
mean.  She's like the Steve Jordan of splatter music.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: mean accordions?
Date: 04 Feb 2002 01:27:00 EST


In a message dated 2/4/02 1:24:39 AM, [e-mail] writes:

>As the Parkins girls go, I'm more an Andrea fan.  I love accordions played
>mean.  She's like the Steve Jordan of splatter music.


i love accordion, and i play.  tell me more!

also, has anyone else out there heard that song, i don't know what it is
called or who does it...

"i love her more than wicker and cork, bjork, bjork, bjork...  i love her so
much i feel like a dork, bjork, bjork, bjork..."

;)

love,
  k8.



-----
[ .n o t h i n g  i s  w h a t  i s  s a i d. ]

.k a t e  p e t e r s o n.
.c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r.
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>
<A HREF="http://www.icefoundation.org">http://www.icefoundation.org</A>
(roundtable)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: mean accordions?
Date: 03 Feb 2002 22:32:21 -0800



> From: [e-mail]
> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 01:27:00 EST
> To: [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail]
> Subject: mean accordions?
>
>
> In a message dated 2/4/02 1:24:39 AM, [e-mail] writes:
>
>> As the Parkins girls go, I'm more an Andrea fan.  I love accordions played
>> mean.  She's like the Steve Jordan of splatter music.
>
>
> i love accordion, and i play.  tell me more!

She's  a Cecil Taylor kind of accordionist.  Very intense, rhythmic,
clustery, complete with a fuzz box -- but always musical.  Her playing on
Ellery Eskelin's records is fantastic.  Lotsa attitude, and her chops are
pretty formidable.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: mean accordions?
Date: 04 Feb 2002 01:32:42 EST


In a message dated 2/4/02 1:30:01 AM, [e-mail] writes:

>>> As the Parkins girls go, I'm more an Andrea fan.  I love accordions
>played
>>> mean.  She's like the Steve Jordan of splatter music.
>>
>>
>> i love accordion, and i play.  tell me more!
>
>She's  a Cecil Taylor kind of accordionist.  Very intense, rhythmic,
>clustery, complete with a fuzz box -- but always musical.  Her playing
>on
>Ellery Eskelin's records is fantastic.  Lotsa attitude, and her chops are
>pretty formidable.

can you reccomend something specific for me to check out?

k8.



-----
[ .n o t h i n g  i s  w h a t  i s  s a i d. ]

.k a t e  p e t e r s o n.
.c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r.
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>
<A HREF="http://www.icefoundation.org">http://www.icefoundation.org</A>
(roundtable)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new O'Rourke
Date: 04 Feb 2002 07:50:53 +0100

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C1AD50.AC191B40
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    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi, to add something to the O'Rourke thoughts, here's my short review as =
published in dutch Fake Magazine. Try to read through the translational =
illogics, please.

Regards, Remco

Jim O'Rourke: I'm happy, and I'm singing, and a 1,2,3,4 (Mego/ =
Staalplaat)

This is no light pop album, although the title suspects otherwise. It's =
a live recorded electronics album. O'Rourke followers drifted away from =
the unbearable lightness of the songs on Halfway To A Threeway, might =
want to come back and try again. But they will find out they have to =
encounter some more of those sugary triads.=20

Recorded between 1997 and 1999, O'Rourke's latest seems to be a =
minimalistic intermediate station, just before his stylistic change to =
pop. After the fact, this would only take the younger fans fully by =
surprise.

(Rem)


------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C1AD50.AC191B40
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3105.105" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000>
<P>Hi, to add something to the O'Rourke thoughts, here's my short review =
as=20
published in dutch Fake Magazine. Try to read through the =
translational=20
illogics, please.</P>
<P>Regards, Remco</P>
<P><STRONG>Jim O’Rourke: I’m happy, and I’m singing, =
and a 1,2,3,4 (Mego/=20
Staalplaat)</STRONG></P>
<P>This is no light pop album, although the title suspects otherwise. =
It's a=20
live recorded electronics album. O’Rourke followers drifted away =
from the=20
unbearable lightness of the songs on Halfway To A Threeway, might =
want to=20
come back and try again. But they will find out they have to =
encounter some=20
more of those sugary triads. </P>
<P>Recorded between 1997 and 1999, O'Rourke's latest seems to be a =
minimalistic=20
intermediate station, just before his stylistic change to pop. =
After the=20
fact, this would only take the younger fans fully by surprise.</P>
<P>(Rem)</P></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C1AD50.AC191B40--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: mean accordions?
Date: 03 Feb 2002 23:06:43 -0800



> From: [e-mail]
> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 01:32:42 EST
> To: [e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail],
> [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: mean accordions?
>
>> Ellery Eskelin's records is fantastic.  Lotsa attitude, and her chops are
>> pretty formidable.
>
> can you reccomend something specific for me to check out?
>
> k8.
Ellery's ONE GREAT DAY.

sh


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_Bj=F6rk_=28was:_Re:_new_to_the_list=29?=
Date: 04 Feb 2002 02:26:34 -0500

Apparently she puts her money where her mouth is, as it were. I hear she
regularly shows up at Zeena's local gigs now. And damn, touring with Matmos
to boot...

Me, I've loved her since "Birthday" and "Motorcrash."

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Rev. Freud Hairs
Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 11:23 PM


>>>Dancer in the Dark?<<<

I really paid little attention to her music until I saw her
performance in that movie. After seeing the movie I vowed to see
her next LA show. I have no problem understanding why she grates
on some sensibilities. But, for me, she is numinous and sublime.
All this and Zeena, too.


-


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Bjork
Date: 04 Feb 2002 01:27:13 -0500

I think that Bjork is vastly overrated for "herself"- she's more like
musical tofu. Whatever else is in there with her really determines whether
or not her music is good. In other words...like Madonna and PJ Harvey, she's
only as good as the production team that's actually making the songs that
she ends up singing over.

an


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: French punk jazz
Date: 04 Feb 2002 04:01:34 EST

In a message dated 2/3/02 9:26:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail]
writes:

Me sayeth-

<< > And one French outfit that I can't quite squeeze out...
 >

 Ok, I'll wager a guess:

 Is it Larsen Rupin?  >>

Nope- I want to say it's "(blank) the (blank)" ...or something like that.  It
just isn't coming through...

--
np: Golden Years of the Soviet New Jazz Vol. 2, Disk 2- Orkestrion

=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork
Date: 04 Feb 2002 01:07:26 -0800



> From: "Andrew" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 01:27:13 -0500
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Bjork
>
> I think that Bjork is vastly overrated for "herself"- she's more like
> musical tofu. Whatever else is in there with her really determines whether
> or not her music is good. In other words...like Madonna and PJ Harvey, she's
> only as good as the production team that's actually making the songs that
> she ends up singing over.
>
> an
>
Note to list: IT'S NOT JUST ME!!


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Richard Gardner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Weather Report
Date: 04 Feb 2002 12:46:03 +0000

on 2/2/02 11:53 PM, Zorn List Digest at
[e-mail] wrote:

> From: [e-mail]
> Subject: Fwd: Weather Report
>
> The second half of columbia's re-release on cd of "I Sing the Body Electric"
> has three tracks from a live concert in tokyo in 1972.  What's on Live in
> Tokyo that isn't on the columbia release?  (consequently, it was the live
> material from "I Sing" that I dug the most when first listening to the album).
> eriedell

This will give you a better picture than I will.

www.binkie.net/wrdisc/Live%20in%20Tokyo.html

Not a bad site with some snippets on Weather Report worth checking.

Richard


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "David Beardsley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork
Date: 04 Feb 2002 09:35:10 -0500

----- Original Message -----

> I think that Bjork is vastly overrated for "herself"- she's more like
> musical tofu. Whatever else is in there with her really determines whether
> or not her music is good. In other words...like Madonna and PJ Harvey,
she's
> only as good as the production team that's actually making the songs that
> she ends up singing over.

But unlike your examples, she's an interesting singer. Very unique,
I like the way rolls vowels around in her mouth and
mangles the English language.

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: david bowie (slight return)
Date: 04 Feb 2002 09:28:23 -0500



>4. I notice Roxy Music's FOR YOUR PLEASURE has been
>reissued rather recently, with a sticker saying
>something like "Remixed. Remastered.  Remade." or some
>such thing, on the cover, and the words "Words and
>Music by Bryan Ferry" (sic) on the back cover.  This
>made me wonder if Ferry had somehow gained access to
>the tapes and fiddled out some of the stranger Eno (?)
>contributions to the record.  I haven't heard it, but
>thought I'd ask.

the Roxy remasters sound amazing.  Eno is still right there.  the
remastering reveals levels of detail and tones that are like hearing these
albums for the first time again.  I've only got the first 5 albums (their
later stuff kind of bores me), but i'm sure they all sound amazing.

sean


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Non-JZ Sale (lowered): NEW AUTO'd Jap Tortoise CD + 7" vinyl
Date: 04 Feb 2002 10:04:16 -0500

Any Tortoise fans/collectors o'er here in Zorn-land?

** PRICES ARE US$ POSTAGE PAID ** in North America (more for overseas)
If you don't like a price, make me an OFFER.

All three items are BRAND NEW:

$12 -- Tortoise - "Mosquito/Onions Wrapped In Rubber/Gooseneck" US 7"
       (Torsion: b17-003-7) 1993  [2nd pressing on clear vinyl of this
       early single.  In poster sleeve.  mint/mint.  Deleted.]

$30 -- Tortoise - "Millions Now Living Will Never Die" JAP CD
       (Tokuma: tkcb-70931) 1996  [Inside sleeve AUTOGRAPHED in silver
       by Bitney, McEntire, Herndon, McCombs & Pajo (not personalized).
       9 tracks; 3 bonus cuts: "Gamera", "Goriri" & "Restless Waters".
       Mint/new with papers & obi.]

$20 -- K.K. Null - "Invisible Fire/Mad Water" AUS 7" (Syntactic:
       zero41) 2000  [Blue vinyl.  Ltd. & numbered (#91/100).  Deleted.]

-Patrick
[e-mail]









-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "M.B." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Cartoon Music
Date: 04 Feb 2002 07:39:37 -0800 (PST)

Hello-

Could anyone make any good cartoon music
recommendations outside of the realms of Raymond Scott
and Carl Stalling? I am particularly interested in
cartoon music possibly mixed with a lil' exotica.  Im
already familiar with Zorns cartoon music (Classic
Guide to Strategy, CynicalHysterieHour, maybe there is
more that I am missing?) Anything mentioned would be
much appreciated.

PS Were Zorns Game Pieces a direct influence from
cartoon music or was it a combination of many
different mediums? (Im only familiar with Pool at this
point)

Mike

=====
Conversation Piece

Talk about the death of an imaginary
person.  If somebody is interested, bring out
a black framed photograph of the deceased and show. If friends invite you, excuse yourself by explaining about the death of the person.

1963 Summer--Yoko Ono

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Cartoon Music
Date: 04 Feb 2002 10:46:59 EST


--part1_70.17421391.299006f3_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 2/4/02 10:41:46 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> PS Were Zorns Game Pieces a direct influence from
> cartoon music or was it a combination of many
> different mediums? (Im only familiar with Pool at this
> point)
>
> Mike
>
Cartoon music was one part of the influence. There's some more detailed info
about this in the liner notes to one of the Elektra albums - either Spillane
or The Big Gundown.

Dale.

--part1_70.17421391.299006f3_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c0c0c0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">In a message dated 2/4/02 10:41:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">PS Were Zorns Game Pieces a direct influence from<BR>
cartoon music or was it a combination of many<BR>
different mediums? (Im only familiar with Pool at this<BR>
point)<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c0c0c0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">Cartoon music was one part of the influence. There's some more detailed info about this in the liner notes to one of the Elektra albums - either Spillane or The Big Gundown.<BR>
<BR>
Dale.<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_70.17421391.299006f3_boundary--

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Zorn Does Zappa: Tzadik's reply
Date: 04 Feb 2002 10:56:58 EST

This just in from Tzadik in response to my inquiry:

Hi,

I am sure it is a fake.  Or, somebody's wish list, more likely.

Kind of fun to see this.

Thanks.



______________________________________________________________________
Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately,
and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music."

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Cartoon Music
Date: 04 Feb 2002 08:18:21 -0800



> From: "M.B." <[e-mail]>
> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 07:39:37 -0800 (PST)
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Cartoon Music
>
> Could anyone make any good cartoon music
> recommendations outside of the realms of Raymond Scott
> and Carl Stalling? I am particularly interested in
> cartoon music possibly mixed with a lil' exotica.

When I was working on THE FLINTSTONES last yr, I was given a heavy Hoyt
Curtin indoctrination.  He's got a lot of different styles in his scores,
and there are various Hanna-Barbera comps out there.  He's got his exotic
moments, his outer space moments etc.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rev. Freud Hairs" <[e-mail]>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Bj=F6rk_=28was:_Re:_new_to_the_list=29?=
Date: 04 Feb 2002 08:19:37 -0800

>>>As the Parkins girls go, I'm more an Andrea fan.<<<

I was very disappointed with Andrea's performance in LA. She was
surprisingly bland. Not at all what I was expecting. But, Bjork.
Man that lady can sing. Putting her in the same category as
Madonna and others of that ilk means someone is not really
listening. Take the microphone away from Madonna and its thin
soup. Listen to Bjork a capella, and its bliss.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Cartoon Music
Date: 04 Feb 2002 08:22:20 -0800

Hi,

This maybe too obivious, but how about 'Fantasia?'  As far as I know
Raymond Scott and Stallings were the main cartoon composers - but
'Fantasia,' I imagine was an introduction to classical music for a
lot of American kids.  As a child I had classical recordings in our
house - but I imagine that there were many households that didn't
have recordings (during the 50's) so, seeing this cartoon was
probably an introduction to the 'classics.'  And of course Stallings
taking or borrowing music from the classical world, etc.
--
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Bjork
Date: 04 Feb 2002 08:27:57 -0800

I don't have strong feelings about her music either way, but I must
say I have seen her in bookshops, and she has to be one of the most
beautiful humans on this planet.  She has that 'it' quality - a
natural born star.
--
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ajda the Turkish Queen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving (No Zorn Content)
Date: 04 Feb 2002 11:29:16 -0500

Personally, I do like some of Bjork's stuff.  And to the non-believers out
there, I ask whether you've heard her album "Telegram"???  The string
arrangements are glorious, and I might point out she did them herself.  So
in her case, it's not necessary the 'production team' that deserves the
credit.

Frankly, I'm surprised to hear so many people on this list express dislike
for her.  She has more of an obvious jazz influence in her sound than most
pop stars...

Don't get me wrong; I'm certainly not her #1 fan.  I only have "Telegram"
and the "Joga" remix single, but I've heard much of the other releases.
She's a playful musician.  That's all.  It's not a crime.  Does she get less
respect 'cause she's rolling in $$$?  Why do I get the feeling someone like
Iva Bittova, who has a similar spirit but not as much notoriety, would get
more credit?

Regarding the lumping together of Madonna, PJ Harvey, and Bjork - sounds
like someone forgot they these women don't just sing {lalala} over songs
their "teams" create.  They write, and play instruments, too.  Perhaps you
feel singers are lesser???

For the record, I will say I'm a HUGE fan of Rob Ellis, who worked on
PJ'smost recent album , and others I think:)  He is versatile on high.

And Nellee Hooper mixed with just about anyone will likely turn out a great
song.

Ciaou,
Ajda the Turkish Queen
http://mp3.com/turkishqueen
http://wmbr.mit.edu/schedesc.html#binge
Remix http://drawbridge.com/countess/music.html


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tom Benton <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: mean accordions?
Date: 04 Feb 2002 10:50:43 -0600 (CST)


K8 was saying...

> i love accordion, and i play.  tell me more!

I'd agree with the recommendation of Eskelin's 'One Great Day' though it's
probably worth mentioning that Parkins has two discs of her own on
Knitting Factory Works.  These are with her trio - Briggan Krauss (alto
sax) and Kenny Wollesen (drums) and are deeply strange.  In a mostly good
way.  Actually I've only heard the first one.  Though I kind of doubt that
the second is straight-up Tin Pan Alley tunes or anything.

>
> also, has anyone else out there heard that song, i don't know what it is
> called or who does it...
>
> "i love her more than wicker and cork, bjork, bjork, bjork...  i love
> her so much i feel like a dork, bjork, bjork, bjork..."
>

Hey, didn't I write that song?  Maybe not.  But I probably should have,
really.  To anyone who has anything bad to say about Ms. Gudmundsdottir:
watch your back...


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Alain Bashung........post Gainsbourg
Date: 04 Feb 2002 08:52:33 -0800


On Sat, 02 Feb 2002 13:38:34 -0800  Skip Heller wrote:
>
>
>
> > From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
> > Date: Sat, 2 Feb 2002 08:24:04 -0800
> > To: [e-mail]
> > Subject: Alain Bashung........post Gainsbourg
> >
> >> I know his name, but I don't know his music or albums at all.  Is he
> >> pop? Is he jazz?
> >>
> >>
> Fr what I have heard, he's sort of a French roots rocker.  I have his OZEZ
> JOSEPHINE (which I believe was recorded in memphis), and it's real good.

Not to mention that Marc Ribot plays on at least two of his records:

    CLIMAX and CHATTERTON

making the discussion relevant to the list :-).

    Patrice.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Robert A. Pleshar" <[e-mail]>
Subject: bjork / accordians / beauty
Date: 04 Feb 2002 11:20:37 -0600

Hi,

Bjork - dig some of her stuff and enjoy her voice quite a bit.

Accordions - check out Guy Klucevsek (the guy is incredible) and Ted Reichman.

Speaking of Mr. Reichman, he is featured on Roberto J. Rodriguez new tzadik
disc "El Danzon de Moises" which is probably the best new disc I've heard
so far this year (Ms. Ibarra's will be heard soon, though, and I have high
hopes). An excellent group of musicians blending together latin and jewish
themes into a great mix. Marcus Rojas has some fantastic tuba solos as well.

Bruhaha - hope it starts winding down a bit and we have more civility. It's
only music we're talking about here (or books, films, etc). and esoteric
stuff at that.

Remember, all ships rise together,
Rob


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rk_=28was:_Re:_new_to_the_list=29?=
Date: 04 Feb 2002 11:22:14 -0600

Like Steve, I've been a Bjork fan ever since the Sugarcubes days, so I've
always loved her.

But, contrary to what folks may think about her musical abilities, I read=
 an
article with the Matmos guys (i *think* in grooves magazine) that Bjork d=
oes
an incredible amount of the songwriting and production herself - they men=
tioned
being extremely impressed that she WASN'T just a voice over good producti=
on
and other people's work, that she keeps herself incredibly busy writing a=
nd
arranging all her songs.

Bjork continues to amaze me - she goes in new directions with each album,
trying out new ideas and sounds and not letting it get stale. As for her =
voice,
well, I was hooked with Birthday and Motorcrash too, way back when...

m
http://craque.net

Steve Smith([e-mail])@Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 02:26:34AM -0500:
> Apparently she puts her money where her mouth is, as it were. I hear sh=
e
> regularly shows up at Zeena's local gigs now. And damn, touring with Ma=
tmos
> to boot...
>=20
> Me, I've loved her since "Birthday" and "Motorcrash."
>=20
> Steve Smith
> [e-mail]
>=20
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Rev. Freud Hair=
s
> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 11:23 PM
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: Bj=F6rk (was: Re: new to the list)
>=20
>=20
> >>>Dancer in the Dark?<<<
>=20
> I really paid little attention to her music until I saw her
> performance in that movie. After seeing the movie I vowed to see
> her next LA show. I have no problem understanding why she grates
> on some sensibilities. But, for me, she is numinous and sublime.
> All this and Zeena, too.
>=20
>=20
> -
>=20
>=20
> -

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: bjork / accordians / beauty
Date: 04 Feb 2002 11:24:12 -0600

> Accordions - check out Guy Klucevsek (the guy is incredible) and Ted Reichman.

And Pauline Oliveros!!!

m
http://craque.net


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: bjork / accordians / beauty
Date: 04 Feb 2002 09:38:28 -0800



> From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 11:24:12 -0600
> To: "Robert A. Pleshar" <[e-mail]>
> Cc: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: bjork / accordians / beauty
>
>> Accordions - check out Guy Klucevsek (the guy is incredible)

I have a pretty thorough collection of Klucevsek, and the guy is just a
total genius -- and that's not a word I tend to use often.  "Roadrunner',
written for him by Mr Zorn, is one of the most incredible things I've ever
heard, as is his collaboration with Marclay, which I believe is called "Ping
Pong Polka".  Checking out Klucevsek is essential.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: bjork, extended vocal technique, female singers.  non-zc.
Date: 04 Feb 2002 12:37:28 EST

as a performer, my main field is in extended vocal technique, and while i
started out with singing stockhausen and berio and the likes, i found that
when composers were writing for me to sing, they wanted to make those
bjork-type noises.  i spent about 6 months with post and telegram, and it
definitely took at least that long to be able to make the rolls, growls, and
general gutteral noises which all of bjork's albums are laden with.  i really
love her songwriting, and i am into the sounds she makes.  however, she is
wearing thin on me as i feel i have heard all she has to offer timbrally,
etc.  not that post still isn't in my CD player right now...

i really like to compare and contrast aurally the vocal styles of such pop
singers as bjork, ani difranco, sinead o'connor, gwen stefani (whom i
loathe), k.d. lang, pj harvey and jane siberry.  all of these women, while
they each have their pitfalls which i don't think we need to hash out here,
have developed their own unique styles, but a lot of them use similar sounds
within those styles - the "breaking" sound that bjork is so fond of is also
used a lot by sinead and other celts and k.d. lang uses it when singing
country, ani while whatever ani sings ;), etc.

the big point of interest comes in comparing these singers to "real" singers
like meredith monk and the late berberian.  i'm placing my bet on the fact
that neither ani nor gwen nor pj nor k.d. own a meredith monk CD, and
probably haven't even heard of kathy berberian.  however, (and probably more
vocally-unsafely), they employ many of the same sounds and techniques in a
"cross-over" kind of setting.  bjork i would give more credit to on the
informed side of music, but i think that her vocalising is purely a natural
output, not something she has worked to create stylistically - it is part of
her culture.  american female singers are not taught to make a lot of these
noises; they are not "nice" noises for girls to make when they're singing
"nice" songs.  that so few female singers in america have appropriated them
(and canada, k.d.,) is to me a kind of subversion - an assertion of making
the less acceptable noises more acceptable to mass audiences (k.d.) or WILDLY
enjoyed by teenagers everywhere (gwen, ani for the feminazi lesbian faction
;).

tori amos was probably the first of the american crew to do this, but let's
not even go there since if i hear one more thing about ice cream and fluff
and faeries i might just puke my breakfast of herbal tea and a bagel right
onto my iBook.

love,
  k8.

n.p. - "you make it easy to stay awake", by corey dargel.  infinite repeat
for three days now, of just this one song...


-----
[ .n o t h i n g  i s  w h a t  i s  s a i d. ]

.k a t e  p e t e r s o n.
.c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r.
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>
<A HREF="http://www.icefoundation.org">http://www.icefoundation.org</A>
(roundtable)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: pauline oliveros / accordions.
Date: 04 Feb 2002 12:40:22 EST


In a message dated 2/4/02 12:33:05 PM, [e-mail] writes:

>> Accordions - check out Guy Klucevsek (the guy is incredible) and Ted
>Reichman.
>
>And Pauline Oliveros!!!
>
>m

man, my mind is boggled that pauline was overlooked until now, seriously.
even i overlooked her, and i *studied* with her!  seeing the deep listening
band play with six speaker surround sound in a cafe in oberlin was one of the
more enlightening experiences i've ever had.  and can i just say what a
freaking cool woman pauline is?  i was totally intimidated by the idea of
taking a class with her and she put everyone with the same intimidation at
ease and it was a totally comfortable, beautiful chi-enhancing experience.
and stuart dempster can make some of the coolest noises i've ever heard in my
life.

love,
  k8.



-----
[ .n o t h i n g  i s  w h a t  i s  s a i d. ]

.k a t e  p e t e r s o n.
.c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r.
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>
<A HREF="http://www.icefoundation.org">http://www.icefoundation.org</A>
(roundtable)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving (No Zorn Content)
Date: 04 Feb 2002 11:33:29 -0600

> Regarding the lumping together of Madonna, PJ Harvey, and Bjork - sounds
> like someone forgot they these women don't just sing {lalala} over songs
> their "teams" create.  They write, and play instruments, too.  Perhaps you
> feel singers are lesser???

I'm going to have to agree here, in part. I don't know personally how much
songwriting and production Madonna or PJ Harvey do, but they obviously do
*something* right or they wouldn't be where they are now. I have a great deal
of respect for Madonna, though I have never liked much of her music. I'm a
big fan of Polly Jean's early work (back when she probably did a great deal
more of the songwriting).

Lumping these three women together is a poor example of the first claim (that
they are just "singers" performing other people's work), but makes perfect
sense in their artistic ability and courage as women who are actually creative
spirits and respectful artists in an entertainment industry that churns out
such great women role models as Britney Spears.

And yeah, Zeena Parkins. Enough said. :)

Oh and I also heard that Bjork originally wanted to have Bogdan Raczynski do
what Matmos is doing now... THAT would have been an interesting combo!

m
http://craque.net


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Bjork
Date: 04 Feb 2002 09:49:09 -0800

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Andrew
> Sent: Sunday, February 03, 2002 10:27 PM

> I think that Bjork is vastly overrated for "herself"- she's more like
> musical tofu. Whatever else is in there with her really determines whether
> or not her music is good. In other words...like Madonna and PJ
> Harvey, she's
> only as good as the production team that's actually making the songs that
> she ends up singing over.

That's it -- I can't take this sitting down anymore. =)

I'm a big fan of both Bjork and PJ Harvey, and there's a world of difference
between Bjork and Madonna, not to mention the fact that Bjork is a goddess.
(Indeed, I see Bjork as the Good Elf Queen, and PJ Harvey as the High
Priestess of Hecate -- which reminds me, what is Diamanda Galas up to
lately?)

I suppose one can see parallels, particularly in their somewhat outsized
personas, and in Bjork's transformation from indie "grrl" to techno diva to
ProTools pixie. But as David reminded us, Bjork is a pop singer like no
other, what with her repertoire of growls, shrieks, whispers, trills, swoops
and so on, and I can't see them as calculated eccentricities either.
Furthermore, the musicians Bjork may have surrounded herself with,
particularly for her latest album, are no glossy pop hacks either.

What I like about Bjork is that she has been making some of the most
sonically adventurous (and damned good) pop music in a long while. For an
artist so ostensibly mainstream, and for a pop music climate that seems to
be stagnating more and more, this is saying a lot.

Now you may legitimately ask: what's so great about being "sonically
adventurous" if we can listen to any Tzadik release and get our thrills that
way? (See Ian Penman's review of "Kid A" (or was it "Amnesiac?") in _The
Wire_ a year or so ago for variations on that argument.) But to combine
skillful pop songwriting with what are clearly risky musical choices is a
monumental task in itself, and Bjork succeeds most beautifully.

Plus "Hyperballad" is, without a doubt, one of the greatest songs of the
last 30 years.

Later,
Ben

http://members.tripod.com/~tamad2/
ICQ/AIM: thewilyfilipino


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Bjork ranting+raving (No Zorn Content)
Date: 04 Feb 2002 13:05:16 -0500


On the Tori Amos...I once saw a guy speak who went to the Peabody
Conservatory, from where Tori was expelled.  He almost exalted in this
fact.  I think he brought it up at least 3 times in his 50 minute talk.
I just think that he was bitter because he is poor with his Peabody
degree in classical guitar, but Tori is rolling in money without.

Zach


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mark Saleski <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: Bjork
Date: 04 Feb 2002 13:14:41 -0500


--------------070802010907000304050504
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit


>I don't have strong feelings about her music either way, but I must
>say I have seen her in bookshops, and she has to be one of the most
>beautiful humans on this planet.

gees...i hate to recyle words but: Note to list: IT'S NOT JUST ME!!

honestly, i've always loved the sound of her voice...from the very first
time i heard "Birthday" from that Sugarcubes album.

i can see though why people might not like here. kinda reminds me of
Radiohead. some people "get it"...some don't (including myself)

mark

--
Mark Saleski - [e-mail] | http://www.foliage.com/~marks
"Music is spiritual. The music business is not." - Van Morrison


--------------070802010907000304050504
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<html>
<head>
</head>
<body>
<pre wrap=""><!----><br>>I don't have strong feelings about her music either way, but I must
>say I have seen her in bookshops, and she has to be one of the most
>beautiful humans on this planet.<br><br>gees...i hate to recyle words but: Note to list: IT'S NOT JUST ME!!</pre>
honestly, i've always loved the sound of her voice...from the very first
time i heard "Birthday" from that Sugarcubes album.<br>
<br>
i can see though why people might not like here. kinda reminds me of Radiohead.
some people "get it"...some don't (including myself)<br>
<br>
mark<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="$mailwrapcol">--
Mark Saleski - <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</a> | <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.foliage.com/~marks">http://www.foliage.com/~marks</a>
"Music is spiritual. The music business is not." - Van Morrison</pre>
</body>
</html>

--------------070802010907000304050504--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: re: Bjork
Date: 04 Feb 2002 19:16:53 +0100 (CET)

Hi,

> i can see though why people might not like here.
> kinda reminds me of
> Radiohead. some people "get it"...some don't
> (including myself)
>
> mark

WEll, I'm loving Radiohead's "OK Computer" but still
hate Bj÷rk! I don't see any similarities between them.
What I think is that Bj÷rk's voice has a strong
personality and there's no mid-point. You love her or
or you hate her.

Best,

EfrΘn del Valle

_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_Bj=F6rk_=28was:_Re:_new_to_the_list=29?=
Date: 04 Feb 2002 10:23:26 -0800


On Mon, 4 Feb 2002 02:26:34 -0500  "Steve Smith" wrote:
>
> Apparently she puts her money where her mouth is, as it were. I hear she
> regularly shows up at Zeena's local gigs now. And damn, touring with Matmos
> to boot...

I read somewhere that she does not live in NY anymore.

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_RE:_Bj=F6rk_=28was:_Re:_new_to_the_list=29?=
Date: 04 Feb 2002 13:26:12 -0500

She still has a home here, but she's living pretty much everywhere.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Anne Sofie von Otter and Elvis Costello, "No Wonder," 'For the Stars'
(Deutsche Grammophon)

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 1:23 PM
Cc: 'Rev. Freud Hairs'; [e-mail];
[e-mail]



On Mon, 4 Feb 2002 02:26:34 -0500  "Steve Smith" wrote:
>
> Apparently she puts her money where her mouth is, as it were. I hear she
> regularly shows up at Zeena's local gigs now. And damn, touring with
Matmos
> to boot...

I read somewhere that she does not live in NY anymore.

    Patrice.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fwd: re: Bjork
Date: 04 Feb 2002 12:21:00 -0600

Efr=E9n del Valle([e-mail])@Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 07:16:53PM +0100=
:
> WEll, I'm loving Radiohead's "OK Computer" but still
> hate Bj=F6rk! I don't see any similarities between them.
> What I think is that Bj=F6rk's voice has a strong
> personality and there's no mid-point. You love her or
> or you hate her.=20

Well, the same can be said about Radiohead... I was encouraged by all the=
=20
press they got extolling their electronica 'crossover', and ended up just=
=20
being really bored with it.

m
http://craque.net


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fwd: re: Bjork
Date: 04 Feb 2002 10:41:00 -0800


On Mon, 4 Feb 2002 12:21:00 -0600  Matthew Ross Davis wrote:
>
> EfrΘn del Valle([e-mail])@Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 07:16:53PM +0100:
> > WEll, I'm loving Radiohead's "OK Computer" but still
> > hate Bj÷rk! I don't see any similarities between them.
> > What I think is that Bj÷rk's voice has a strong
> > personality and there's no mid-point. You love her or
> > or you hate her.
>
> Well, the same can be said about Radiohead... I was encouraged by all the
> press they got extolling their electronica 'crossover', and ended up just
> being really bored with it.

OK, I am not the only one (although I think that Radiohead is pure genius
compared to the Strokes; could I miss the lyrics?).

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "dekater" <[e-mail]>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Bj=F6rk_=28was:_Re:_new_to_the_list=29?=
Date: 04 Feb 2002 20:37:47 +0100



> Great Jan. That sounds really good!! And what about  Spanish women?? :-)
>
> Best,
>
> EfrΘn


Yeah, Dulcinea and Maya.
Jan Luyben


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Chris Selvig <[e-mail]>
Subject: Tori Amos, indeed
Date: 04 Feb 2002 12:02:59 -0800

Was I hallucinating, or did I actually see someone appear to defend Tori
Amos on the grounds that she is making more money than her former music
professor?  I usually hear this argument as a defense of some high-gloss
halfwits like Bon Jovi - "Well, they make more money than Muddy Waters ever
did."  Did you forget to use an emoticon to remind us that you were joking,
or do you honestly equate sales figures with aesthetic quality?

Chris Selvig


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Fwd: re: Bjork
Date: 04 Feb 2002 13:06:27 -0700

=20
Efr=E9n wrote:
>[clip]...there's no mid-point. You love her or
> or you hate her.=20

m wrote:
>>Well, the same can be said about Radiohead...=20

I'm rather neutral on both.  I liked Ok Computer the first four or so =
times
I listened to it but now I can't really listen anymore.  KidA+B both =
lost
interest by the third listen.

As for Bjork I've only heard her music when fans put it on for me and =
I'm ok
with it...it's better than a lot of other stuff one could put on.  For =
me I
have a similar reaction listening to Stereolab, ie: this is ok but I =
can't
seem to make it through an entire album without getting a bit bored.  =
Still,
that doesn't mean I hate her.

I know we've had the "expanding pop music and public awareness" blah =
blah
about Radiohead and perhaps the same can be said for Bjork...I think =
this is
a valid statement about both groups.

an aside:  Bjork walked into other music in NY where my friend (and =
former
15 yr old list member) was working.  She asked him to help her find =
INA-GRM
or comparable music...
better than Michael Stipe who simply sent a representative to ask for
"recommendations on his behalf"

Matt


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Stephen Arthur <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Susie Ibarra Trio?
Date: 03 Feb 2002 06:23:23 -0800 (PST)

I saw Susie Ibarra trio at Tonic last weekend.  I
would definitely recommend the live show.  I will
probably go again, but I am not committed to owning
her CD just yet.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Butch Morris w/J.A. Deane + Otomo Yoshihide
Date: 04 Feb 2002 13:21:18 -0700


Has anyone out there heard this or can you give other recommendations =
of
starting points for Butch Morris?


Lawrence D "Butch" Morris/ORT-Orchestra della Toscana:
Holy Sea: Conductions 57, 58, 59
(Splasc(h) 802803)
J A Deane, live sampling, drum machine, trombone, electronics =B7 =
Riccardo
Fassi, piano =B7 Lawrence "Butch" Morris, conductor =B7 ORT-Orchestra =
della
Toscana, ensemble =B7 Otomo Yoshihide, turntables, sampling, =
electronics=20
Conduction Number 57: Holy Sea, Shopping =B7 57E1 =B7 57 =B7 57E2 =B7 =
Conduction
Number 58: Holy Sea, Marble Dust =B7 58E1 =B7 58E2 =B7 58E3 =B7 =
Conduction Number
58: Holy Sea, Marble Dust =B7 58 =B7 Conduction Number 59: Holy Sea, =
(The)
Devil's Music =B7 59E2=20

Thanks, =20
Matt


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Last Plane to Jakarta
Date: 04 Feb 2002 15:20:42 -0500

Hi all:

Just wanted to throw out an unprompted plug for one of my favorite web
discoveries, Last Plane to Jakarta. It's a small operation run by writer
John Darnielle, located at www.lastplanetojakarta.com. Used to be a paper
fanzine, I understand. Its pleasures are many, including cool (and
browser-friendly) graphics, innovative layouts, and some pretty diverse and
wacky links. Still, its primary pleasures are definitely to be derived from
John's enthusiastic and informed coverage of pop music. He's into indie
stuff for the most part - I discovered Propagandhi through him - and no one
out there writes more enthusiastically, intelligently and convincingly about
death metal, either - that's where I found Kataklysm, and his coverage of
Chuck Schuldiner's passing was heartbreaking. He's also reviewed Radiohead's
'Amnesiac' track by track over the last several months, and even if you
don't like the band, you must admire the deapth of thought he's devoted to
it. It's quirky and personable, exactly as the web should be.

The site is updated every Sunday night and is always worth the time it takes
to read. Check it out.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Psyco on Da Bus, "Time to Take a Rest Suite, Part II," 'Psyco on Da
Bus' (PGI)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Butch Morris w/J.A. Deane + Otomo Yoshihide
Date: 04 Feb 2002 15:32:00 -0500

I haven't heard 'Holy Sea' as an offical "finished" CD, but Butch sent me
cassettes of the music a long time ago, before he found a home for the
project (he was hoping Koch would consider it). I remember being impressed,
but it doesn't seem like the best starting point, though it's received great
reviews. The orchestra manages Butch's musical intentions well, it seems,
but I think it might be easier to start with one of his smaller projects for
improvisers and then work out from there.

I've got a lot of Butch stuff (including the New World box set), but the one
disc I come back to more than any other is one my pal Vince Kargatis gave me
long ago, 'Homeing.' It's got a fine group (J.A. Deane, Vincent Chancey,
Shelley Hirsch, David Weinstein, Jason Hwang, Pierre Dorge and others), and
its demanding stretches are leavened with a truly gorgeous, heavenly
recurring melody. Vince once told me it was some of his favorite music to go
to sleep by, and he didn't mean it as an insult. It's on Sound Aspects and
could be a bit tough to find at the moment, but it's sooooo worth it.

My last CD just ended... think I'm going to put 'Homeing' on right now.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Matthew W
Wirzbicki (S)
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 3:21 PM



Has anyone out there heard this or can you give other recommendations of
starting points for Butch Morris?


Lawrence D "Butch" Morris/ORT-Orchestra della Toscana:
Holy Sea: Conductions 57, 58, 59
(Splasc(h) 802803)
J A Deane, live sampling, drum machine, trombone, electronics ╖ Riccardo
Fassi, piano ╖ Lawrence "Butch" Morris, conductor ╖ ORT-Orchestra della
Toscana, ensemble ╖ Otomo Yoshihide, turntables, sampling, electronics
Conduction Number 57: Holy Sea, Shopping ╖ 57E1 ╖ 57 ╖ 57E2 ╖ Conduction
Number 58: Holy Sea, Marble Dust ╖ 58E1 ╖ 58E2 ╖ 58E3 ╖ Conduction Number
58: Holy Sea, Marble Dust ╖ 58 ╖ Conduction Number 59: Holy Sea, (The)
Devil's Music ╖ 59E2

Thanks,
Matt


-


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving (No Zorn Content)
Date: 04 Feb 2002 21:45:35 +0100



Ajda the Turkish Queen wrote:

> Personally, I do like some of Bjork's stuff.  And to the non-believers out
> there, I ask whether you've heard her album "Telegram"???  The string
> arrangements are glorious, and I might point out she did them herself.  So
> in her case, it's not necessary the 'production team' that deserves the
> credit.
>
> Frankly, I'm surprised to hear so many people on this list express dislike
> for her.  She has more of an obvious jazz influence in her sound than most
> pop stars...

Well - I used to be heavily into the Sugarcubes, and also I do like some of
Bj÷rk's music; it's just her singing I can't put up with anymore. To me, it's
just "one-dimensional"...; it always sounds exactly the same to me...

patRice

np: sfa
nr: Horiyoshi III, 108 Heroes of the Suikoden


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rev. Freud Hairs" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: bjork, extended vocal technique, female singers.  non-zc.
Date: 04 Feb 2002 12:42:09 -0800

Extended Vocal Technique
TDWR:
http://members.aol.com/ninewinds/BIOS/barnett.html


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rev. Freud Hairs" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Butch Morris w/J.A. Deane + Otomo Yoshihide
Date: 04 Feb 2002 12:44:45 -0800

Dust To Dust by Butch Morris is one of my most repeated listens.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
Date: 04 Feb 2002 22:45:44 +0100

Matthew Ross Davis Wrote:
Some notes on Bjork, Madonna and PJ Harvey...
>>
perfect > sense in their artistic ability and courage as women who are
actually creative > spirits and respectful artists in an entertainment
industry that churns out > such great women role models as Britney Spears.

And Patrice Wrote, (on Radiohead):
OK, I am not the only one (although I think that Radiohead is pure genius
compared to the Strokes; could I miss the lyrics?).

Ben Wrote:
Now you may legitimately ask: what's so great about being "sonically
adventurous" if we can listen to any Tzadik release and get our thrills that
way?

Remco Writes:
Right, I feel Ben's point very urgently. To me the above arguments equal the
giving of star ratings to different styles of crap. So Madonna, PJ and
Radiohead get high rates in crap industry? Interesting? As soon as you need
Britney Spears or the Strokes in order to make your point, there must be
*something* wrong, huh?

Regards, Remco

ps
Zach wrote (on a classical guitar player with a degree):
I just think that he was bitter because he is poor with his Peabody
degree in classical guitar, but Tori is rolling in money without.
>>>>
Poor bastard. He doesn't realise there are many many poor Tori Amoses out
there. Only one of'em made it, just like there's only one John Williams who
made it big time (parallelling Dr Bitter Peabody in having a classical
degree). Besides: every hard working butcher or plumber earns a lot more
than a classical music teacher. The sad bugger sure did some bad thinking
before he went into conservatory. And it didn't get better over the years.
He bitter? Hah!

Remco (studied modern dutch literature, ouch! what was HE thinking at 18?:-)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving (No Zorn Content)
Date: 04 Feb 2002 22:58:20 +0100


> Bj÷rk's music; it's just her singing I can't put up with anymore. To me,
it's > just "one-dimensional"...; it always sounds exactly the same to me...
>
> patRice

Still, you might want to put up with *one* or *two* weak aspects in great
music. In Bjork's case I love the taped a cassette I made from MTV
Unplugged. The main stuff she does just sounds OK to me.

But what do I know, I vividly remember how it took me years to get into
Coltrane. I just heard a regular saxophone guy at first. A bit like, say,
Joshua Redman;-)

I am completely unaware of Bjorks influence on techno and dance, like I
missed Coltrane's influence on later jazz, back when I thought his playing
was pretty normal.

Regards, Remco

np: Billy Preston/ Billy's Bag (on some cheap cd with similar Preston tunes)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Tori Amos, indeed
Date: 04 Feb 2002 16:48:01 -0500

I don't equate money to success as an artist or quality of work in any
way.  Is Brittany Spears better than all of the artists discussed on
this list because she pulls in millions or even because more people
listen to her albums? I think not.  In my Tori Amos post I was more
commenting on the bitterness of less successful (monetarily) musicians
towards those who are more successful.  I believe that artists should be
content with artistic success whether it produces material success or
not.  I would imagine that some one who chooses jazz, classical, or
experimental styles for artistic expression that they don't anticipate
to be as rich as Brittany.  I couldn't see Zorn shakin' his thang in a
Pepsi ad (though it could be interesting).

I have a problem with "rip-offs."  A situation where a inferior group
gets rich or famous by merely imitating another group (normally poorly)
that it claims as an influence.  I do believe that people deserve
respect and/or notoriety for their innovations and creativity.  Though,
there is something to be said for a group that can translate a
pre-existing style to be understood by the masses, that's a talent in
and of itself.  Not every one can be entertaining, just as not every one
can possess perfect technique. Though I don't know how I would feel if a
group that I have affection for (i.e. Mr. Bungle) was being
"ripped-off."

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
Date: 04 Feb 2002 15:42:09 -0600

Remco Takken([e-mail])@Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 10:45:44PM +0100:
> Ben Wrote:
> Now you may legitimately ask: what's so great about being "sonically
> adventurous" if we can listen to any Tzadik release and get our thrills that
> way?
>
> Remco Writes:
> Right, I feel Ben's point very urgently. To me the above arguments equal the
> giving of star ratings to different styles of crap. So Madonna, PJ and
> Radiohead get high rates in crap industry? Interesting? As soon as you need
> Britney Spears or the Strokes in order to make your point, there must be
> *something* wrong, huh?

Because it has everything to do with the style in which these artists choose to
work. It's not a matter of "who can be more adventurous than the next" or
just being so over the top that you can't stand to listen to good music in a
different style than something besides skronk or japanese noise bands, so you
have to listen to Tzadik releases and nothing else.

Bjork and Madonna and PJ Harvey all work within very very specific idioms
of music, and they all have varying degrees of musicality and artistic
creativity. But you cannot expect them to work within a popular idiom and
completely alienate their audience.

And just to genericize my argument, look at Autechre. Yes, many folks on the
Zorn list probably prefer their latest outings into experimental electronica to
earlier works, but a good majority of their fan base think they went way
downhill.

The point is that you cannot categorically dismiss the work of a good artist
because they choose to work within a medium that you don't like (or worse,
don't understand and therefore shun).

m
http://craque.net


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
Date: 04 Feb 2002 13:54:37 -0800


On Mon, 4 Feb 2002 22:45:44 +0100  "Remco Takken" wrote:
>
> Remco Writes:
> Right, I feel Ben's point very urgently. To me the above arguments equal the
> giving of star ratings to different styles of crap. So Madonna, PJ and
> Radiohead get high rates in crap industry? Interesting? As soon as you need
> Britney Spears or the Strokes in order to make your point, there must be
> *something* wrong, huh?

Britney Spears is at the top in a category with a lot of contenders and very
few elected. She does not do everything (like unloading the trucks, tune the
guitars, write the songs, etc), but the big boss at Ford does not put all the
screws on every car that leaves the plant... You see what I mean: she is the
top of the iceberg of a very popular act, the equivalent of a heavy industry.
Judging her with the criteria that you apply to experimental/improv/etc does
not make any sense. She is in a different league. You might not like what she
does, but to be where she is, she definitely have something.

Also, please don't make successfull people responsible for the obscurity of
the others. Even if the fame of Britney Spears collapses tomorrow, I doubt
that this will help Pauline Oliveros to make the top ten.

    Patrice (who does not even know Britney Spears's songs...).

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving (No Zorn Content)
Date: 04 Feb 2002 13:57:40 -0800


On Mon, 4 Feb 2002 22:58:20 +0100  "Remco Takken" wrote:
>
> I am completely unaware of Bjorks influence on techno and dance, like I
> missed Coltrane's influence on later jazz, back when I thought his playing
> was pretty normal.

I always had the feeling that Bjork was like Gainsbourg, keeping her ears
opened to jump on the new trends. She more a catalyst to me (and we need
artists like that).

    Patrice:

PS: PARADISO: PJ Harvey

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
Date: 04 Feb 2002 14:13:07 -0800



> From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 15:42:09 -0600
> To: Remco Takken <[e-mail]>
> Cc: Ajda the Turkish Queen <[e-mail]>, Zorn List
> <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers


> Bjork and Madonna and PJ Harvey all work within very very specific idioms
> of music, and they all have varying degrees of musicality and artistic
> creativity. But you cannot expect them to work within a popular idiom and
> completely alienate their audience.

But what about working in an idion specifically designed to generate dollars
while purporting to be all about art? Whenever you see somebody bitching
about being famous even as they have a VERY expensive publicist, you're
likely right to suspect their motives from the ground up.  Bjork has been a
very canny career strategist, and the way she's played the media is by no
means beneath -- or for that matter above -- examination.  She's on a major
label, makes sure to hire the kinds of people who will guarantee that her
work is percieved a certain way by virtue of their participation, and has a
publicist out there pushing all the right buttons.  I would say this is not
working to alientae an audience.  I would say it is working to look a
certain way to a certain clientele so they will buy records.  If you don't
believe me, come to Hollywood and check out how these things work.  I
guarantee you'll think twice before purchasing another major label record.
You'll likely buy it anyway, but you will likely feel unclean for having
done so.

If Bjork was on Tzadik, she'd be in a whole other boat.  But she's on a
major, and her use of major label machinary is pretty much like everyone
else's.


> And just to genericize my argument, look at Autechre. Yes, many folks on the
> Zorn list probably prefer their latest outings into experimental electronica
> to
> earlier works, but a good majority of their fan base think they went way
> downhill.

Your fan base doesn't count.  Your art does.  Unless you're only in it for
the money.
>
> The point is that you cannot categorically dismiss the work of a good artist
> because they choose to work within a medium that you don't like (or worse,
> don't understand and therefore shun).

There's no such thing as an inherently bad medium.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving (No Zorn Content)
Date: 04 Feb 2002 15:59:31 -0600

Patrice L. Roussel([e-mail])@Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 01:57:40PM -0800:
> > I am completely unaware of Bjorks influence on techno and dance, like I
> > missed Coltrane's influence on later jazz, back when I thought his playing
> > was pretty normal.
>
> I always had the feeling that Bjork was like Gainsbourg, keeping her ears
> opened to jump on the new trends. She more a catalyst to me (and we need
> artists like that).

I'll chime in here too and say I think techno has more of an influence on her
than the other way around - ergo her desire to have Bogdan or Matmos work with
her on Vespertine.

m
http://craque.net

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rev. Freud Hairs" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving (No Zorn Content)
Date: 04 Feb 2002 14:18:08 -0800

>>>....what Matmos is doing now... <<<

Seeing Matmos do what Matmos does, on the stage of the esteemed
Dorothy Chandler Pavilion, was a rare treat.

I must admit I was proud of my 13 y/o son [who attended Bjork with
me], when he remarked after attending a performance by the Jeff
Kaiser Improvising Big Band [including Vinny Golia, Brad Dutz,
Wayne Peet, et al.] here at Ventura's City Hall: "That music was a
lot better than Bjork, Dad."


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tori Amos, indeed
Date: 04 Feb 2002 14:26:53 -0800



> From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 16:48:01 -0500
> To: "'Chris Selvig'" <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
> Subject: RE: Tori Amos, indeed
>
> I don't equate money to success as an artist or quality of work in any
> way.  Is Brittany Spears better than all of the artists discussed on
> this list because she pulls in millions or even because more people
> listen to her albums? I think not.
But is she WORSE because she does? No.  And to a certain audience, she's
completely effective.

>  In my Tori Amos post I was more
> commenting on the bitterness of less successful (monetarily) musicians
> towards those who are more successful.  I believe that artists should be
> content with artistic success whether it produces material success or
> not.

I agree.  But people signed to major labels are saddled with different
options and obbligations -- which they know when they sign.

>  I would imagine that some one who chooses jazz, classical, or
> experimental styles for artistic expression that they don't anticipate
> to be as rich as Brittany.
No, but they likely anticipate other fringe benefits.


>  I couldn't see Zorn shakin' his thang in a
> Pepsi ad (though it could be interesting).

Wasn't Naked City used to sell footwear?

> I have a problem with "rip-offs."  A situation where a inferior group
> gets rich or famous by merely imitating another group (normally poorly)
> that it claims as an influence.  I do believe that people deserve
> respect and/or notoriety for their innovations and creativity.
But for as many bands as have credited Beefheart, Iggy, X, the Velvet
Underground et al -- and therefore have given the respect publicly --
audiences generally want young, goodlooking people who are happening now.
You can't blame Kurt Cobain for not pushing more people to buy the
Raincoats' album.  And it's not his responsibility to sell Raincoats albums.
And its not even really the audience's job to go on a research project to
"correctly" build a record library.  They've already spent 40 hrs a week to
make that money, and they usually want some entertainment.  I don't think
anyone's trying to make a point for Brittney as a force of art, but it does
get certain people off.  I imagine that her work is meaningful to a 13 year
old girl, whereas Masada would not adress the concerns of a 14 yr old girl
as well.  And 14 yr old girls need music, too. Is she wrong to provide it?



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving (No Zorn Content)
Date: 04 Feb 2002 14:28:44 -0800



> From: "Rev. Freud Hairs" <[e-mail]>
> Reply-To: "Rev. Freud Hairs" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 14:18:08 -0800
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving (No Zorn Content)
>
>
> I must admit I was proud of my 13 y/o son [who attended Bjork with
> me], when he remarked after attending a performance by the Jeff
> Kaiser Improvising Big Band [including Vinny Golia, Brad Dutz,
> Wayne Peet, et al.] here at Ventura's City Hall: "That music was a
> lot better than Bjork, Dad."
>
I am sending this over to Wayne right now.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Tori Amos, indeed
Date: 04 Feb 2002 17:20:29 -0500


>  I don't think
>anyone's trying to make a point for Brittney as a force of art, but it does
>get certain people off.  I imagine that her work is meaningful to a 13 year
>old girl, whereas Masada would not adress the concerns of a 14 yr old girl
>as well.  And 14 yr old girls need music, too. Is she wrong to provide it?

the creepy part is that it isn't just 13 & 14 year old girls buying Britney.
I worked record (CD for you youngsters) retail for about 10 years, and a
good portion of her consumers don't fall into the teen/pre-teen girl
demographic.  i fear the ones really "getting off" are the middle aged men
who were buying it.  only some of them had kids.  YUCK

sean

-



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Ricardo=20Campillo?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: polish f. on the net (NZC)
Date: 04 Feb 2002 23:35:04 +0100 (CET)

Somebody knows a site on the net where I can find
images of polish films? I specially interested in the
films of: Andrzej Munk, Wojciech Has, Wajda, Jerzy
Skolimowski, Stanislaw Rozawicz and Henryk Kluba.
And the czechoslovakian Jaromil Jires.
Regards for everybody.

n.p.:Massacre"Meltdown"

_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tori Amos, indeed
Date: 04 Feb 2002 14:42:15 -0800



> From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 17:20:29 -0500
> To: "Skip Heller" <[e-mail]>, "Zachary Steiner"
> <[e-mail]>, "'Chris Selvig'" <[e-mail]>,
> <[e-mail]>
> Subject: RE: Tori Amos, indeed
>
> the creepy part is that it isn't just 13 & 14 year old girls buying Britney.
> I worked record (CD for you youngsters) retail for about 10 years, and a
> good portion of her consumers don't fall into the teen/pre-teen girl
> demographic.  i fear the ones really "getting off" are the middle aged men
> who were buying it.  only some of them had kids.  YUCK

Well, that's a whole other thing that we probably don't need to go into.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
Date: 04 Feb 2002 14:40:31 -0800


On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:13:07 -0800  Skip Heller wrote:
>
> But what about working in an idion specifically designed to generate dollars
> while purporting to be all about art? Whenever you see somebody bitching
> about being famous even as they have a VERY expensive publicist, you're
> likely right to suspect their motives from the ground up.  Bjork has been a

Do I detect bitter tears here or am I having some optical illusions?

> very canny career strategist, and the way she's played the media is by no
> means beneath -- or for that matter above -- examination.  She's on a major

To play with the media, you first need to be on their radar screen.

> label, makes sure to hire the kinds of people who will guarantee that her
> work is percieved a certain way by virtue of their participation, and has a
> publicist out there pushing all the right buttons.  I would say this is not

Which means that if tomorrow Skip Heller gets a good publicist (you have an
address, BTW?), he will immediately pop up in every DOWN BEAT issue next to
Diana Krall? But we can be reassured that he won't do that because he will
never sell his soul to the devil.

> working to alientae an audience.  I would say it is working to look a
> certain way to a certain clientele so they will buy records.  If you don't
> believe me, come to Hollywood and check out how these things work.  I
> guarantee you'll think twice before purchasing another major label record.

Thanks for letting us know that besides confidential pressings (is 1000 not
too many?), there is no salvation.

> You'll likely buy it anyway, but you will likely feel unclean for having
> done so.

Unclean? For buying a popular record? Should we wait twenty years until
THE WIRE has a special dossier on rediscovering entertainment music from
the nineties? Since we all know now that it is cool to appreciate Burt
Bacharach and Abba (after decades of purgatory).

> If Bjork was on Tzadik, she'd be in a whole other boat.  But she's on a
> major, and her use of major label machinary is pretty much like everyone
> else's.
>
>
> > And just to genericize my argument, look at Autechre. Yes, many folks on the
> > Zorn list probably prefer their latest outings into experimental electronica
> > to
> > earlier works, but a good majority of their fan base think they went way
> > downhill.
>
> Your fan base doesn't count.  Your art does.  Unless you're only in it for
> the money.

    Patrice.[

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: bjork, extended vocal technique, female singers.  non-zc.
Date: 04 Feb 2002 18:11:52 -0500

on 02.02.04 12:37 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

> as a performer
...[HUGE snip]
> onto my iBook.


Ummm.... you married?



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
Date: 04 Feb 2002 17:04:22 -0600

Skip Heller([e-mail])@Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 02:13:07PM -0800:
> If Bjork was on Tzadik, she'd be in a whole other boat.  But she's on a
> major, and her use of major label machinary is pretty much like everyone
> else's.

Yeah, but I doubt she'd ever be on Tzadik. However, she *has* appeared on Warp
with Plaid, and has several of those cats remix her tunes, so I fully trust her
ability to diversify and not just live a life of commercial music. The amount
of remix work and collaboration that Bjork does on the flip side of her major
label is quite enough for me to believe that she has her wits about her in this
area.

But it's quite obvious that Bjork made it into the entertainment business
because she's entertaining, she's a damn good musician, and she has a fabulous
voice. She is making a career of music, and to make a career of anything you
have to be willing to work within certain constraints. Vespertine is a much
less "pop" album than the past few, and I think it's readily apparent that she
did this as the "do what I want to do" release as opposed to "make people get
up and notice me" (like Debut, for example).

One of the things I love about the indie label world is how one artist
(obviously a successful one if he or she can get multiple deals on small
labels) can shop their different musical voices to different labels. Kit
Clayton is this way - he's got releases on a ton of different labels, and
their "sound" is reflected in what he chooses to release on that label.

> Your fan base doesn't count.  Your art does.  Unless you're only in it for
> the money.

I disagree. Fan base *does* count, because those are the people listening. You
don't have to be "only in it for the money" to desire a fan base and people who
want to listen to your music. It's a very symbiotic relationship.

(of course, this is my personal view, i am aware that plenty of folks are more
puritanical about it, which is cool with me and i respect that)

> There's no such thing as an inherently bad medium.

100% in agreement here!

m
http://craque.net


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
Date: 04 Feb 2002 15:14:13 -0800

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Remco Takken
> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 1:46 PM

> Ben Wrote:
> Now you may legitimately ask: what's so great about being "sonically
> adventurous" if we can listen to any Tzadik release and get our
> thrills that
> way?

> Remco Writes:
> Right, I feel Ben's point very urgently. To me the above
> arguments equal the
> giving of star ratings to different styles of crap. So Madonna, PJ and
> Radiohead get high rates in crap industry?

You're taking my words out of context. My above sentence is followed by "But
to combine
skillful pop songwriting with what are clearly risky musical choices is a
monumental task in itself, and Bjork succeeds most beautifully."

Later,
Ben

np: king tubby, "dub gone 2 crazy"

http://members.tripod.com/~tamad2/
ICQ/AIM: thewilyfilipino


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
Date: 04 Feb 2002 15:36:34 -0800



> From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:40:31 -0800
> To: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
> Cc: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>, Remco Takken
> <[e-mail]>, Ajda the Turkish Queen <[e-mail]>, Zorn
> List <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
>
> On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:13:07 -0800  Skip Heller wrote:
>>
>> But what about working in an idion specifically designed to generate dollars
>> while purporting to be all about art? Whenever you see somebody bitching
>> about being famous even as they have a VERY expensive publicist, you're
>> likely right to suspect their motives from the ground up.
>
> Do I detect bitter tears here or am I having some optical illusions?

Optical illusions.  You don't go into what I've gone into to be in lots of
magazines.  Guys who do everything but what you're supposed to don't get the
big media attention.  On the other hand, you get to do fun stuff all the
time and pay your rent doing it without having to answer to anyone.  I can't
complain.  The fact that I work in the profession I like under conditions I
can live with makes me the guy who won the lottery.  I know guys who can
play like Wes Montgomery who pump gas for a living.  You think I don't
mutter "there but for the grace of God go I" once a day at least?
>

> To play with the media, you first need to be on their radar screen.
And -- on that level of media -- that ain't cheap.  And the artist has to be
into working it as hard as the publicist.
>

> Which means that if tomorrow Skip Heller gets a good publicist (you have an
> address, BTW?), he will immediately pop up in every DOWN BEAT issue next to
> Diana Krall? But we can be reassured that he won't do that because he will
> never sell his soul to the devil.
I have turned down big ticket rock tours that would have paid bitchen wages
but did go out with NRBQ, if that tells you anything about my own personal
money/music equation.  And, incidentally, how did Diana Krall find herself
so far ahead of the pack of people with similar talents as hers? There's a
very serious publicity machine behind Ms Krall, coupled with her on
commitment to being the kind of artist that gets magazine covers.  I don't
find her objectionable, but I also don't think she's exactly light years
ahead of her peer group.  There's a enough evidence to suggest that, if your
label spends enough advertising dollars in a given magaine, you can call
some shots.  Which probably has a lot to do with who is on the covers of
magazines.

Zorn's opinion of the press and the effect major labels have on it was spot
on.  If you have huge a huge publicity machine, you'll pop up in every
DOWNBEAT, regardless of the content of your music (I don't dismiss Diana
Krall, but she's been on the cover more times than Guy Klucevsek, who
certainly is a great artist).  Look at Frisell -- while making fine records
on ECM, he didn't get large attention fr the press.  But Nonesuch could
afford a much more efficient and powerful publicist.  Not that I rank myself
with Frisell (who was already much greater at the start of his career than
I'll ever be), but he's a classic example.

>> working to alientae an audience.  I would say it is working to look a
>> certain way to a certain clientele so they will buy records.  If you don't
>> believe me, come to Hollywood and check out how these things work.  I
>> guarantee you'll think twice before purchasing another major label record.
>
> Thanks for letting us know that besides confidential pressings (is 1000 not
> too many?), there is no salvation.
It's much deeper and worse than that.  And sadder.  Mark Twain said that
people are best not knowing what goes into making their laws or their
sausages.  That should be extended to major label recordings.  Remember --
these are the guys who make cross-ventured deals with Clear Channel and the
Gap.  I've sat in meetings with these guys, and it really shook me up.

> Unclean? For buying a popular record? Should we wait twenty years until
> THE WIRE has a special dossier on rediscovering entertainment music from
> the nineties? Since we all know now that it is cool to appreciate Burt
> Bacharach and Abba (after decades of purgatory).
Again, if you met the people that were responsible for bringing the stuff to
you -- deciding what/who gets the shove into the marketplace and what that
decision is based on, you would likely be really disturbed.  They aren't
nice, they generally don't care about music, and their concept of what is
good is based pretty much entirely on what sold and how much.   Remember --
we're talking about committees that decided to push boy bands and joked
about how much income would be derived from the "pedophile demo[graphic]."
To quote Frank Zappa, recording artists on major labels are owned and
operated by truly bad people.

And it's always been cool to appreciate Burt Bacharach.  If you're looking
for some Burt you can't find, I'll hook ya up.

sh


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork/Gainsbourg
Date: 05 Feb 2002 00:52:55 +0100

>
>
> I always had the feeling that Bjork was like Gainsbourg, keeping her ears
> opened to jump on the new trends=2E
>
>         Patrice:
>
>
>
> -

Bj=F6rk's ears will never be in the same league as Gainsbourg's (without ver=
y
costly plastic surgery, that is) !!

DY=2E


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
Date: 04 Feb 2002 15:51:38 -0800



> From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 17:04:22 -0600
> To: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
> Cc: Remco Takken <[e-mail]>, Ajda the Turkish Queen
> <[e-mail]>, Zorn List <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
>
>> Your fan base doesn't count.  Your art does.  Unless you're only in it for
>> the money.
>
> I disagree. Fan base *does* count, because those are the people listening. You
> don't have to be "only in it for the money" to desire a fan base and people
> who
> want to listen to your music. It's a very symbiotic relationship.

Let me rephrase that -- because you're right in light of the flimsy way I
wrote that.  New sentence:
Your fan base should not dictate anything about your artistic choices.  The
symbiosis ideally occurs when -- based purely on an art motive --  the
artist and the audience grow together, and that the audience comes to check
things out with the artist.  Z-List favorite Ornette Coleman as example: the
bulk of the people I knew to be fans of the original quartet were into Prime
Time, because they wanted to go exploring with Ornette.  Doing Prime Time
was a different thing for him to do, and I doubt that he was trying to
appease anyone by going in that direction.  But the fan base went because
they want the journey.  I don't think he did it to make $.  That's the ideal
symbiotic relationship.  Whereas the relationship that has a guy servicing a
fan base by providing more of what they already like out of some fear of
f**king with the formula is in bad shape.

The artist is in business for the people who buy the CD.  he should make the
best effort he can.  But he shouldn't compromise himself in the effort to
become a human jukebox that just spits out more of the same.  To be Ornette
Coleman in the Prime Time situation must have been pleasant.  But to be a
human jukebox... Well, let's just say I've heard Jimmy Buffett is rumored to
go to great lengths to avoid dealing personally with his fan base.

Glenn Gould once said that it would be interesting to see what happened if
musicians were completely annonymous and had no concept of who was listening
to them, why, or how much it sold.  Then, he opined, the artist would have
to rely solely on his own artistic judgement.

It's a little extreme, but interesting to ponder.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Chris Selvig <[e-mail]>
Subject: Britney, Tori, et al
Date: 04 Feb 2002 15:47:17 -0800

Zach,
   I'm relieved to hear you are not a defender of the sales figures =
genius equation.  While the professor is a bit loserly for being so bitter
about it, I'd certainly try to dissociate myself from any and all Tori Amos
associations.  As for defenders of Britney Spears and her ilk, while I do
not expect to hear snarling el/ac improv on a Top 40 station, my main
criterion for music is that it be interesting.  I find her music dull, and
I think extramusical concerns drive her career.  The medium in which
Madonna and her clones operate is music only tangentially - they are
professional celebrities, puppets for pop-song writers and producers; their
art form is fame.  The fact that Ms. Ciccone controls her publicity machine
does not make her music any better, though perhaps she deserves cudos for
her business acumen.
   Now that I have that off my chest, I hypocritically wish to move away
from this thread: I'd like to hear recommendations for some country records
to check out.  I have no interest in new country and don't wish to hear
about alt-country, but I'd like recommendations on some good entry points
into classic c&w.  I have Hank Williams' "40 Greatest Hits," which I would
definitely take to my desert island; I love Dock Boggs and early Johnny
Cash and Willie Nelson and that's about it.
   And... it seems like Get Back is maybe going to reissue all of the BYG
Actuel series - is this the case?  I hope so, 'cause I really NEED Alan
Silva's "Luna Surface" LP and my, uh, career trajectory is not currently at
a point where I can troll for such precious items on Ebay.

Chris Selvig


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tori Amos, indeed
Date: 04 Feb 2002 23:57:03 +0000

>From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>

>I agree.  But people signed to major labels are saddled with different
>options and obligations -- which they know when they sign.

I tend to think that 98% of the people who do get signed to the majors have
NO idea what they're getting themselves into, and I say this from the
experience of watching promising local artists landing deals, thinking
they're finally going to hit the top, getting that nice fat advance to
record an album (and fill up their nostrils and veins), then heading out on
the road to play the never ending string of one nighters in the vague hope
that they can generate enough sales to pay back that big advance. And
finding out in the end that they owe the label a helluva lot more than they
got fronted because of course they've been charged for every piece of
stationary, every cup of coffee, every postage stamp that's been 'invested'
in their 'career'. Really it's only the very successful artists (Tori Amos
just got dropped by her label right? Rod Stewart made millions& millions for
Atlantic but just get dropped) who end up benefiting from being on a major
label.  But some of the majors are in serious trouble now, the old
established system of marketing music (ooops! should read 'product') is
falling apart, and those not willing to change with the times must surely
perish...

I can't believe Britney Spears is being discussed here!

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Britney, Tori, et al
Date: 04 Feb 2002 16:05:13 -0800



> From: Chris Selvig <[e-mail]>
> Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:47:17 -0800
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Britney, Tori, et al
>
> I have no interest in new country and don't wish to hear
> about alt-country, but I'd like recommendations on some good entry points
> into classic c&w.

Any decent Lefty Frisell collection on Columbia, my fav being LOOK WHAT
THOUGHTS WILL DO
Bob Wills -- CLASSIC WESTERN SWING (Rhino)
anything by Jerry Lee Lewis on Mercury
Merle Haggard -- DOWN EVERY ROAD (4 CD box, all meat, no fat and an
essential part of any American record collection, IMHO)
GEORGE JONES -- Best Of (Rhino)every volume of Rhino's HILLBILLY FEVER
series has the essential stuff in its respective subgenre
Flatt & Scruggs -- TIS SWEET TO BE REMEMBERED Earl Scruggs was to 5 string
banjo what Charlie Parker was to alto saxophone.  All dazzling.  Great track
selection, too.
any RCA Dolly Parton album made before "Here You Come Again" (1977).
Tom T Hall -- GREATEST HITS (Mercury).
Ernest Tubb-- any best of on MCA.
Louvin Bros -- WHEN I STOP DREAMING (Razor & Tie)  Even the fundamentalist
Christian tunes on here ("that word 'broadminded' is spelled S-I-N") are
amazing.  Great Chet Atkins solos throughout,and some of the best brother
harmonies ever.
any Hank Snow best of on RCA
Jimmy Martin -- KING OF BLUEGRASS (I forget the label) -- The Ray Charles of
bluegrass singers
THE ESSENTIAL JIMMIE ROGERS (RCA)

contact me off-list if need be.  this was my first love.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tori Amos, indeed
Date: 04 Feb 2002 16:14:07 -0800



> From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 23:57:03 +0000
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: Tori Amos, indeed
>
>
> I tend to think that 98% of the people who do get signed to the majors have
> NO idea what they're getting themselves into, and I say this from the
> experience of watching promising local artists landing deals

You're right and more than right fr that angle.  I'm speaking from
Hollywood, where people have lawyers reading the service agreements for
their kitchen sinks.

skip h



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Britney, Tori, et al
Date: 04 Feb 2002 19:21:00 -0500

When it comes to musicians and actors, the vast majority of people want
a pretty face and/or a nice body.  Listening to people in my age group
talk about celebrities they want to meet, I hear the vast majority say
they want to meet a celeb of the opposite sex.  When pressed as to why
they want to, I normally hear "Cause they're hot."  I never hear
"Because they do good work" or "Because I think they would be
interesting to talk to." It seems logical that tastes for actors would
bank on looks, but it seems bizarre that musicians are judged on looks.
I listen to musicians that I wouldn't know if I tripped over them.
Maybe that's just me...

Zach


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Britney, Tori, et al
Date: 04 Feb 2002 16:22:26 -0800


On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:47:17 -0800  Chris Selvig wrote:
>
> Zach,
>    I'm relieved to hear you are not a defender of the sales figures =
> genius equation.  While the professor is a bit loserly for being so bitter
> about it, I'd certainly try to dissociate myself from any and all Tori Amos
> associations.  As for defenders of Britney Spears and her ilk, while I do
> not expect to hear snarling el/ac improv on a Top 40 station, my main
> criterion for music is that it be interesting.  I find her music dull, and
> I think extramusical concerns drive her career.  The medium in which
> Madonna and her clones operate is music only tangentially - they are

You are absolutely right. It is called entertainment business. It is big
and a lot of money is at risk if wrongly managed.

> professional celebrities, puppets for pop-song writers and producers; their

Here we are in the third millenium and the cliche of the young woman in the
music business being totally manipulated goes stronger than ever. I don't
know what control you have on your life, but I am sure that I would be
better off with hers.

> art form is fame.  The fact that Ms. Ciccone controls her publicity machine
> does not make her music any better, though perhaps she deserves cudos for
> her business acumen.

You know, when you deal with an audience which counts in the million range,
you have to run your business a little bit differently than a coffee shop
with a weekly concert evening.

I am sure that Madonna would have a chuckle at seeing people on an obscure
mailing list questioning her capability of control :-).

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Bjorkasaurus
Date: 04 Feb 2002 19:27:54 EST

Always fun to follow debates on this list, even when things seem somewhat out
of hand. A lot of these Bjork exchanges assume Bjork arrived fully formed and
instantly successful. In her defense, Bjork started out an indie artist in
Iceland - can't get much more obscure or isolated than that - then slowly
earned the respect and (relative) popularity more recently lobbed her way.
And she appears to have done it her own way, at her own pace.

After the Sugarcubes (at best a cult phenom), she released a solo album,
largely a collaboration with Soul II Soul's Nellee Hooper; followed it with a
collab with 808 State, Tricky, Goldie, and Howie B; followed that by a more
wholly electronic release helmed by LFO's Marc Bell; then followed _that_ by
a disc backed by Inuit singers, Zeena Parkins, and Matmos. She then toured
with the same odd combo and stuck strictly to alternative venues. She might
sell out concerts and sell a few records, but I'm not quite sure exactly what
Bjork is doing to actively increase her audience through artistic compromise.
 Her interviews are relatively rare and her private life still pretty
private. She might have an expensive publicist - don't know of any beyond her
label - but I can't really say she's been going about her career like just
another superstar. If anything, she keeps getting more and more ambitious,
with fewer signs of compromise. Blame the hype for fueling overexposure, but
Bjork has as far as I can tell remained as creatively independent as any
artist I can think of, indie or major. Unless I'm missing something?

As for majors, the key differences between big labels and little labels is
usually just distribution and budget. There have been just as many "bad"
indies as "bad" majors. I mean, they're all out to make money, and as in any
capitalist system, some people and companies make more money than others.
Perhaps the whole system is therefore flawed, but I don't see many indies
offering their albums for free.

Josh

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
Date: 04 Feb 2002 16:46:43 -0800


On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 15:36:34 -0800  Skip Heller wrote:
>
>
>
> > From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
> > Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:40:31 -0800
> > To: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
> > Cc: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>, Remco Takken
> > <[e-mail]>, Ajda the Turkish Queen <[e-mail]>, Zorn
> > List <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
> > Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
> >
> > On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 14:13:07 -0800  Skip Heller wrote:
> >>
> >> But what about working in an idion specifically designed to generate dollars
> >> while purporting to be all about art? Whenever you see somebody bitching
> >> about being famous even as they have a VERY expensive publicist, you're
> >> likely right to suspect their motives from the ground up.
> >
> > Do I detect bitter tears here or am I having some optical illusions?
>
> Optical illusions.  You don't go into what I've gone into to be in lots of
> magazines.  Guys who do everything but what you're supposed to don't get the
> big media attention.  On the other hand, you get to do fun stuff all the
> time and pay your rent doing it without having to answer to anyone.  I can't
> complain.  The fact that I work in the profession I like under conditions I
> can live with makes me the guy who won the lottery.  I know guys who can
> play like Wes Montgomery who pump gas for a living.  You think I don't
> mutter "there but for the grace of God go I" once a day at least?

Who cares about somebody who plays like Wes Montgomery in 2002 (besides the
usual nostalgic of the good old time)? Forty years ago, it was another
story.

Classical orchestras are packed with top notch skilled technicians, but would
I interrupt my activities to see them if they decide to stop at my local
coffee shop for some "experimental" noodling? I doubt. But they know how to
play their instruments, you would say. Who cares if that's all they have to
put on the table of an already overcrowded music market.

> Zorn's opinion of the press and the effect major labels have on it was spot

Zorn is not your average joe. He can afford to not give a shit because he
has something that nobody else has.

> > Thanks for letting us know that besides confidential pressings (is 1000 not
> > too many?), there is no salvation.
> It's much deeper and worse than that.  And sadder.  Mark Twain said that
> people are best not knowing what goes into making their laws or their
> sausages.  That should be extended to major label recordings.  Remember --
> these are the guys who make cross-ventured deals with Clear Channel and the
> Gap.  I've sat in meetings with these guys, and it really shook me up.

Are you not tired of the same patronizing and condescending attitude? After
having followed non-mainstream music for almost thirty years, I just don't buy
it anymore. People are far from being stupid. We should not forget that the
first reason why music does not sell is because you can live without it (to
say it nicely). The myth of the tormented genius, pure in his mind, not
willing to compromise his art, and totally misunderstood... I won't comment.

Yes, big audience does not mean quality (or what gratifying qualifier you
prefer), but playing in front of empty rooms does not imply it either.

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
Date: 04 Feb 2002 18:59:24 -0600

Skip Heller([e-mail])@Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 03:51:38PM -0800:
> Let me rephrase that -- because you're right in light of the flimsy way I
> wrote that.  New sentence:
> Your fan base should not dictate anything about your artistic choices.  The
> symbiosis ideally occurs when -- based purely on an art motive --  the
> artist and the audience grow together, and that the audience comes to check
> things out with the artist.

With this I totally agree, I see where you were coming from in the first
statement.

It makes me interested in the dynamicism of what Autechre did on their last
tour. This is a duo that has won the hearts of a great deal of 'avant' dance
music folks to the point of becoming contemporary legends in the field. A great
deal of the flak they caught from the last album (which I love) and tour was
centered around a music that fit a sit-down audience more than a dance
audience.

I personally believe Autechre was being true to their art and not letting their
fan base dictate anything about their choices, but I also believe they were
alienating their fanbase in the way they chose to market both the album and the
tour - that is, to venues that are expected to be "dance music" events. Number
one, if you're going to gain new listeners, the ones interested in that kind of
music would never think to go to a dance club to hear it; number two, the
people who do go to dance clubs to hear dance music don't have the patience for
that much experimental sound that isn't danceable.

The Transmitions festival in Chicago last spring made this mistake too - Kit
Clayton and company played their experimental take on techno at one of the
least avant-friendly clubs in Chicago. I wasn't there, but friends of mine went
and said it was nothing short of a disaster - they should have booked it
elsewhere, not at Rednofive where people go to expect house and trance.

I'm not quite sure if there's any solution to this conundrum, or even what my
own opinion is on when you should be mindful about your audience and how it is
balanced with your own art, but these are some observations I've made in the
recent past.

> Glenn Gould once said that it would be interesting to see what happened if
> musicians were completely annonymous and had no concept of who was listening
> to them, why, or how much it sold.  Then, he opined, the artist would have
> to rely solely on his own artistic judgement.
>
> It's a little extreme, but interesting to ponder.

It's a great thing to ponder, indeed... I think it's actually probably a great
place to start (or at least take a short detour) in the creative process.

m
http://craque.net


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjorkasaurus
Date: 04 Feb 2002 17:38:25 -0800



> From: [e-mail]
> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 19:27:54 EST
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Bjorkasaurus
>
> As for majors, the key differences between big labels and little labels is
> usually just distribution and budget.

No -- there's more to it than that.  The difference is who runs 'em and why.
it's the difference between Clive Davis and John Zorn.

> There have been just as many "bad"
> indies as "bad" majors.
True, but at least at the indie you can go to the office and punch the crap
out of the a**hole who's making things difficult.  Also, the royalty
statements you get fr an indie tend to be more readable.

> I mean, they're all out to make money, and as in any
> capitalist system, some people and companies make more money than others.
> Perhaps the whole system is therefore flawed, but I don't see many indies
> offering their albums for free.
No, but you also don't see that many indies putting out Mariah Carey records
or other swill just because it will sell (until they get chained to a major,
after which, they stand to lose their best-selling artist because of that
"first look" codicial, then they specifically have to find a way to close
the sales gap).

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjorkasaurus
Date: 04 Feb 2002 19:43:22 -0600

Skip Heller([e-mail])@Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 05:38:25PM -0800:
> No, but you also don't see that many indies putting out Mariah Carey records
> or other swill just because it will sell (until they get chained to a major,
> after which, they stand to lose their best-selling artist because of that
> "first look" codicial, then they specifically have to find a way to close
> the sales gap).

One thing that strikes me is the success of labels such as Matador. Here's a
label with a hugely wide array of artists and styles, and I would *think* that
the reason they are successful is because they allow their "big name" artists
to bring in some of the cash to afford them the chance to publish smaller name
acts.

With Tzadik I've always imagined that they just have enough cash to break even
on the releases - and I would imagine most indie labels operate in much the
same way.

But the entire gamble of labels paying to publish unknown artists and making
enough money to run the business has always intrigued me.

m
http://craque.net


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
Date: 04 Feb 2002 18:02:10 -0800



> From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>

> Who cares about somebody who plays like Wes Montgomery in 2002 (besides the
> usual nostalgic of the good old time)?

I meant "as well as".  And, whatever the year, great plaing is great
playing.  I don't think relevance is an issue if I guy can play really great
guitar, irregardless of idiom.  I have a phobia about deciding relevance
based on time.  Whether or not I like Ornette Coleman's quartet, he is
extremely relevant to a community of players, even if that stuff is forty
years old.  Wes deserves that same respect.  And so does Clarence White and
a lot of other guys whose ideas have withstood the test of the years.
>
> Classical orchestras are packed with top notch skilled technicians, but would
> I interrupt my activities to see them if they decide to stop at my local
> coffee shop for some "experimental" noodling? I doubt.

It would depend on the player.  A few years ago, that criterion would have
cost you the chance to see Mark Feldman in a really intimate setting.


>> Zorn's opinion of the press and the effect major labels have on it was spot
>
> Zorn is not your average joe. He can afford to not give a shit because he
> has something that nobody else has.

Granted, but there are a great many people who are not your average joe and
who provide a unique service.  But you have often to go digging for 'em.
And I think honestly that anybody can not give a shit about the other stuff
if they just do what's in their heart.  You may fail at it, but at least you
haven't wasted your time.  You may pass marginally, but at least you get to
pay your rent and bills doing it even if you maybe can't afford a Mercedes.
I can't help but think there are a lot of people out there doing amazing
things but who didn't have Zorn's opportunities.  This is not putting Zorn
down.  He has the goods, to be sure.  But he found his way to the right
place at the right time.


> Are you not tired of the same patronizing and condescending attitude? After
> having followed non-mainstream music for almost thirty years, I just don't buy
> it anymore. People are far from being stupid. We should not forget that the
> first reason why music does not sell is because you can live without it (to
> say it nicely). The myth of the tormented genius, pure in his mind, not
> willing to compromise his art, and totally misunderstood... I won't comment.

Well, some people refuse to get ulcers doing a job they hate.  For me, the
idea of committing six months to a tour that offers absolutely no prospect
of fun, growth, interplay, etc is a bad idea.  Better to stay home, maybe
make less dough, but like what you're doing.  Some people -- in music --
relegate it to "it's just a job" and go about their business.  They leave
the job at the studio or whatever and that's that.  Fine, if not the kind of
musician I admire.

I don't think any audience is inherently stupid.  But I think there are
clumps of listeners who are better-eduated than others -- which does not
always mean they automatically make the smartest choices, either.  As for
tormented geniuses, I have known a couple (although not in music) and
they're not much fun.  Personally, I've learned to refuse jobs I'll hate no
matter what the dough -- and I answer this personally because I sense
something akin to a personal opinion question here -- because the result of
playing music I hate will always cost me more than money.  I don't call that
purity, either.  It's more like enlightened self-interest.

> Yes, big audience does not mean quality (or what gratifying qualifier you
> prefer), but playing in front of empty rooms does not imply it either.
>
Music that does not sell just doesn't sell.  As for the empty rooms, I don't
know what that implies.  To hear Paul Bley tell it, it implies you're doing
something there's not yet an audience for (re: his memories of the group
with him, Cherry, Ornette et al).  If you honestly believe in what you're
playing -- without regard for fame, $, or critical regard -- you should be
happy just to be doing it.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjorkasaurus
Date: 04 Feb 2002 18:08:07 -0800



> From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 19:43:22 -0600
> To: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
> Cc: [e-mail], [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: Bjorkasaurus

> One thing that strikes me is the success of labels such as Matador. Here's a
> label with a hugely wide array of artists and styles, and I would *think* that
> the reason they are successful is because they allow their "big name" artists
> to bring in some of the cash to afford them the chance to publish smaller name
> acts.
They're one of the few that's been allowed to keep their big name acts after
hooking up with a major.  Whoever drafted their aggreement was very crafty.

> With Tzadik I've always imagined that they just have enough cash to break even
> on the releases - and I would imagine most indie labels operate in much the
> same way.
Tzadik does things relatively inexpensively, so one record that does well
can pay for four that don't.  BAR KOKHBA probably paid for ten Tzadik
records.

> But the entire gamble of labels paying to publish unknown artists and making
> enough money to run the business has always intrigued me.
Passionate record guys are intriguing.  They run things according to their
own taste.  You ougtha meet Lee Jospeh at Dionysus.  Even as a lot of his
peers/competitiors with more $ went belly-up, he's stayed in business.  And
I think it's because he doesn't care enough about anything else to change
his ways.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ajda the Turkish Queen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tori Amos, indeed+I smell misogyny
Date: 04 Feb 2002 21:10:41 -0500

>>  I don't think anyone's trying to make a point for Brittney as a force of
>>art, but it does get certain people off.  I imagine that her work is
>>meaningful to a 13 year old girl, whereas Masada would not adress the
>>concerns of a 14 yr old girl as well.  And 14 yr old girls need music,
>>too. Is she wrong to provide it?

Sniff, sniff...Do I smell authority??  The final word??

{Here comes the sarcasm) Yes, indeed, young girls cannot handle abstract
musics.  Their brains are lacking!

How do you know what a 14 yr-old girl likes to listen to??  Have you ever
been one?  I didn't think so.  Well, I have, as have the other females on
this list.  Don't assume you know what we, or any other FEMALES of any age
like.  I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you
didn't mean that comment to come out the way it did;)

Ajda the Turkish Queen
http://mp3.com/turkishqueen
http://wmbr.mit.edu/schedesc.html#binge
Remix http://drawbridge.com/countess/music.html




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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jim Flannery <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjorkasaurus
Date: 04 Feb 2002 18:12:03 -0800

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> After the Sugarcubes (at best a cult phenom),

And for some reason I feel an urge to remind y'all that the Sugarcubes were not
her first band, that she'd been at it for 4 or 5 years by *that* time, and her
previous act was on the CRASS label (and sounded not even anything like Crass).

--
Jim Flannery                                             [e-mail]

         "It seems that the less respect you have for the legacy
          of jazz, the more likely you are to create it."
                                                     -- Steve Hanson
np: Mellow Candle, _Swaddling Songs_
nr: Ian Brady, _The Gates of Janus_

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tori Amos, indeed+I smell misogyny
Date: 04 Feb 2002 18:30:06 -0800



> From: "Ajda the Turkish Queen" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 21:10:41 -0500
> To: [e-mail], [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: Tori Amos, indeed+I smell misogyny
>
>
> How do you know what a 14 yr-old girl likes to listen to??  Have you ever
> been one?  I didn't think so.  Well, I have, as have the other females on
> this list.  Don't assume you know what we, or any other FEMALES of any age
> like.  I'm gonna give you the benefit of the doubt here and assume you
> didn't mean that comment to come out the way it did;)
>
Certainly I meant no disrespect.  I ask my nieces -- who are 13 and 14
--what they like and why.   I take their answers at face value and on good
faith.  I like to know what music to buy them for their birthdays etc, and
why that's what they want.  While I have never been a fourteen year old
girl, I feel safe with their answers about their music.  They tend to go for
things you can dance to and which contain lyrics about love relationships.
A year or so ago, Ms Spears was the music they were most happy to recieve,
whereas before that, they and their friends wre quite taken with the Spice
Girls' records.

As for 14 yr olds of either sex listening to abstract music, I'd say you've
got a unique 14 yr old on your hands if abstract music is the entertainment
they crave.  Come to think of it, that craving makes for a unique 36-yr-old,
if the BILLBOARD charts are any indication.

skip h


-



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From: "Ajda the Turkish Queen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: All is forgiv'n (No ZC)
Date: 04 Feb 2002 21:34:15 -0500

OK.  I see where you're coming from.  In fact, that explanation was cute.
All I'm sayin' is personally, I wasn't into music _at all_ until I started
listening to college radio at the age of 14.  That opened the flood gates
for me.  I'm confident without it I would not be typing these words:)

Ajda the Turkish Queen
http://mp3.com/turkishqueen
http://wmbr.mit.edu/schedesc.html#binge
Remix http://drawbridge.com/countess/music.html


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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ajda the Turkish Queen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Parkins sisters (NZC)
Date: 04 Feb 2002 21:38:24 -0500

The ladies Parkins are sisters, non?

Have they put out a collaborative effort?

Cheers,
Ajda the Turkish Queen
http://mp3.com/turkishqueen
http://wmbr.mit.edu/schedesc.html#binge
Remix http://drawbridge.com/countess/music.html


_________________________________________________________________
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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Misunderstandings
Date: 04 Feb 2002 21:50:34 -0500

I have gone way divergent from the common tastes of my age group.  I
should be listening to Dave Matthews, alt-Rock, and/or rap not jazz,
classical, and experimental.  I should be enjoying shallow comedies,
love stories, or action movies not foreign, experimental, and
independent films.  I find myself encountering people, both friends and
otherwise, that say something-- for I have much disdain or loathing--is
great.  Often I bite my tongue, but feel horrible for harboring such ill
will for something they find so remarkable.  I haven't been able to
reconcile whether I'm right for my opinions and tastes, but more
importantly if this snobbery (as I feel it) is warranted or accepted.
I'm not sure if having outsider tastes is something you pick or if it
picks you.  Is this terrible feeling I have for what I perceive as
snobbery normal?  It almost seems impossible to have outsider tastes and
not have some opinion (probably) on "insider" music.

Zach


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Parkins sisters (NZC)
Date: 04 Feb 2002 18:53:38 -0800



> From: "Ajda the Turkish Queen" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 21:38:24 -0500
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Parkins sisters (NZC)
>
> The ladies Parkins are sisters, non?
cousins, i think.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rev. Freud Hairs" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjorkasaurus
Date: 04 Feb 2002 18:54:14 -0800

"then followed _that_ by a disc backed by Inuit singers, Zeena
Parkins, and Matmos. She then toured
with the same odd combo and stuck strictly to alternative venues."

Are you saying that some of the world's greatest concert halls are
alternative venues?


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Chris Selvig <[e-mail]>
Subject: Britney
Date: 04 Feb 2002 19:47:14 -0800

"Here we are in the third millenium and the cliche of the young woman in
the music business being totally manipulated goes stronger than ever. I
don't know what control you have on your life, but I am sure that I would
be better off with hers." - I'm not sure if she's totally manipulated, but
c'mon - these young women are chosen because they are good looking and they
know how to dance.  Do you think she's working out all of the arrangements
for her songs, choreographing her squad of dancers, choosing each New
Look?  And Patrice, if you want to spend your days practicing dance
routines and lipsynching, I'm sure your town has a dance school that would
be delighted to empty your wallet.  I'm afraid I don't have the build for
her life and I don't much care for dancing.
   You have made numerous jabs at the sorts of musicians who perform in
coffee shops, release records in editions of less than 1000, etc - are you
suggesting that nothing of worth is created at this level?  I don't think
obscurity validates art, and a lot of half-assed doodling masquerades as
"avant-garde," but there are a lot of excellent records made in small editions.
   And judging from the recent whining about falling record sales, I'm not
the exalted big entertainment money is being managed so well, after all.





-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Britney
Date: 04 Feb 2002 20:04:09 -0800



> From: Chris Selvig <[e-mail]>
> Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 19:47:14 -0800
> To: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
> Cc: [e-mail]
> Subject: Britney
>
> You have made numerous jabs at the sorts of musicians who perform in
> coffee shops, release records in editions of less than 1000, etc - are you
> suggesting that nothing of worth is created at this level?  I don't think
> obscurity validates art, and a lot of half-assed doodling masquerades as
> "avant-garde," but there are a lot of excellent records made in small
> editions.
> And judging from the recent whining about falling record sales, I'm not
> the exalted big entertainment money is being managed so well, after all.
>
I gotta second this emotion.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rev. Freud Hairs" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Misunderstandings
Date: 04 Feb 2002 20:03:39 -0800

>>>I haven't been able to reconcile whether I'm right for my
opinions and tastes, but more
importantly if this snobbery (as I feel it) is warranted or
accepted.<<<

I'll bet well over 50% of Zorn-listers are unequally yoked with
significant others who do not share our interest in
non-lowest-common-denominator music.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ryan Novak <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Glenn Gould
Date: 04 Feb 2002 20:16:21 -0800 (PST)

>Glenn Gould once said that it would be interesting to

>see what happened if
>musicians were completely annonymous and had no
>concept of who was listening
>to them, why, or how much it sold.  Then, he opined,
>the artist would have
>to rely solely on his own artistic judgement.
>
>It's a little extreme, but interesting to ponder.


Well, I'd say this is a good way to think of yourself
as a musician or anything.  Do I have enough faith in
what I do that I feel it matters in the world without
any sort of confirmation?  Sounds lonely, but even
with one enthusiastic fan or millions who may fill up
your wallet in the process, this could be the mirror
where you see just how true you are being to music,
art, or yourself in general.  Not a place to live, but
probably to visit regularly.

But I'm just paraphrasing the great Screech.  :~)


---Ryan Novak

__________________________________________________
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Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
Subject: tzadik sales
Date: 04 Feb 2002 20:21:36 -0800

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Skip Heller
> Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 6:08 PM

> Tzadik does things relatively inexpensively, so one record that does well
> can pay for four that don't.  BAR KOKHBA probably paid for ten Tzadik
> records.

I've wondered about this. Anyone have any idea how well Tzadik releases
sell, and which titles are the "bestsellers?" (I assume that, of all Zorn's
output at least, it's the Elektra/Nonesuch releases which sold the most
units.)

Later,
Ben

np: cat power, "what would the community think?"

http://members.tripod.com/~tamad2/
ICQ/AIM: thewilyfilipino


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: venues
Date: 04 Feb 2002 23:24:00 EST


In a message dated 2/4/02 10:17:50 PM,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Are you saying that some of the world's greatest concert halls are
alternative venues? >>

In the case of a pop/rock/whatever act like Bjork, definitely. The
(somewhere) aforementioned Clear Channel cabal ensures that virtually every
pop act wil play the local Enormodome or Club-O-Rama. Last summer Bjork
avoided the usual venues, as did Radiohead. Very refreshing change of pace
for fans of artists that can fill such places.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tom Gatzen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: tzadik sales
Date: 04 Feb 2002 20:56:21 -0800 (PST)

In the store I work in the best sellers were the
Masada titles and the Death Ambient stuff

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: tzadik sales
Date: 04 Feb 2002 23:58:44 -0500

Last time I saw real figures... admittedly a while back... the top sellers
were the two Patton albums and yes, Bar Kokhba. All in the respectable low
tens of thousands. Many others barely scratch a thousand.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Benito Vergara
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 11:22 PM

I've wondered about this. Anyone have any idea how well Tzadik releases
sell, and which titles are the "bestsellers?" (I assume that, of all Zorn's
output at least, it's the Elektra/Nonesuch releases which sold the most
units.)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: tzadik sales
Date: 04 Feb 2002 21:04:04 -0800



> From: Tom Gatzen <[e-mail]>
> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 20:56:21 -0800 (PST)
> To: Benito Vergara <[e-mail]>, Zorn List
> <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: tzadik sales
>
> In the store I work in the best sellers were the
> Masada titles and the Death Ambient stuff

For a time, BAR KOKHBA was the label's biggest seller.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Chris Selvig <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Tori Amos, indeed
Date: 04 Feb 2002 21:09:42 -0800


>
>
>I have a problem with "rip-offs."  A situation where a inferior group
>gets rich or famous by merely imitating another group (normally poorly)
>that it claims as an influence.  I do believe that people deserve
>respect and/or notoriety for their innovations and creativity.  Though,
>there is something to be said for a group that can translate a
>pre-existing style to be understood by the masses, that's a talent in
>and of itself.  Not every one can be entertaining, just as not every one
>can possess perfect technique. Though I don't know how I would feel if a
>group that I have affection for (i.e. Mr. Bungle) was being
>"ripped-off."
>
>Zach


   Can you give an example or two of bands you think are egregious
rip-offs?  I can think of some, though I don't think Nirvana and The
Raincoats sound too similar (and was it Cobain or Sonic Youth who pushed
DGC into reissuing the Raincoats records?)  But the rip-off question is
really tricky, since forms have roots and, jeez, was Captain Beefheart's
iteration of Howlin' Wolf's singing style a rip-off?  An hommage?  An
evolution?  Is a free improv guitarist sticking kitchen implements in their
strings ripping Keith Rowe off?  Was Rowe ripping John Cage off?
    There's a really good book by Griselda Pollock, "Avant-Garde Gambits,"
which is about the competition between Gauguin and his contemporaries.  The
central idea is that in an evolving form, works of art employ gambits to
gain attention: reference to, deference to, and difference from prior works.


Chris Selvig


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: tzadik sales
Date: 04 Feb 2002 21:07:04 -0800



> From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
> Reply-To: <[e-mail]>
> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2002 23:58:44 -0500
> To: "'Benito Vergara'" <[e-mail]>, "'Zorn List'"
> <[e-mail]>
> Subject: RE: tzadik sales
>
> Last time I saw real figures... admittedly a while back... the top sellers
> were the two Patton albums and yes, Bar Kokhba. All in the respectable low
> tens of thousands. Many others barely scratch a thousand.
>
> Steve Smith

What? You don't go platinum with an album called MUSIC FOR VIOLIN ALONE?!

sh


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Tori Amos, indeed
Date: 05 Feb 2002 00:21:50 -0500

   Can you give an example or two of bands you think are egregious
rip-offs?

I can't give you any concrete examples of rip-offs, but the idea bothers
me.  I think the main reason that I'm straying away from concrete
answers is because of the ambiguity of the lines between
homage/influence and rip-offs.  Here, yet again, my theory gets me in
trouble because I'm too ignorant to produce a concrete example... Oh how
I yearn for wisdom, old-timers show me the way :)

Zach


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "D Dvb" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Yet another tangent (marginal Zorn content)
Date: 04 Feb 2002 21:26:34 -0800

> > Zorn is not your average joe. He can afford to not give a shit because
>he
> > has something that nobody else has.

I know that I'm on the Zornlist so this may sound funny, but quite frankly
if John Zorn didn't exist, well, so what?  Of the thousands of artists that
have walked this planet in the history of recorded music, John Zorn is
somehow ultra-special?  I mean, how many potential "geniuses" have we lost
because minorities (blacks/women/etc.) were never given the opportunity?  I
don't want to get into silly space-time continuum issues (ie, Zornlist not
existing if Zorn wasn't here) but if I didn't have Zorn's music, I'd still
have the Velvets, Vandermark, Berne, Dylan, Pavement, Ayler, Art Ensemble,
O'Rourke [insert favorite artists here]. And from past threads, I know a lot
of people here have collections in the thousands, tens of thousands so
there's a lot of people you can fill in the blank with.  Zorn is the reason
I started playing sax so I'm not disparaging the guy at all...but I don't
put him on some pedestal either.

>I have gone way divergent from the common tastes of my age group.  I
>should be listening to Dave Matthews, alt-Rock, and/or rap not jazz,
>classical, and experimental.  I should be enjoying shallow comedies,
>love stories, or action movies not foreign, experimental, and
>independent films.  I find myself encountering people, both friends and

What's wrong with enjoying both?  I understand your point (it's hard not to
interject when my 23 year old sister is telling me how poignant Mariah
Carey's lyrics are) but to paraphrase a Kundera novel, it's dangerous to
spend all your time with Beethoven.

--davy

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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Frisell Sells Out [was RE: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers ]
Date: 05 Feb 2002 00:35:18 -0500

I'll agree with a lot of what Skip wrote in this thread, and a lot of what
others have written as well. But I do want to point out something of an
inaccuracy specific to the use of Frisell as an example, since I'm in a
unique position to know a little bit. Nonesuch has never used any publicist
for Frisell other than their own in-house person, and for much of his tenure
that publicist has been my now ex-wife, who started from ground zero
publicity-wise (as in zero experience but basic good sense - musical and
otherwise) and worked her way up to a position of respect. The publicist
that preceded her was indeed considered an industry powerhouse in her own
right, but she was still just one woman on the label's staff of seven.

Way I see it, there were three major things at work in Frisell's career
which took him to "the next level" or whatever. First, ECM has always been
the black sheep at any major with which it has been signed for domestic
marketing and distribution. Aside from Metheny, Jarrett and the occasional
breakaway hit from someone like Garbarek, no one on the label was ever
afforded the full resources of whatever major label ECM might happen to be
pacted at any given moment. On Nonesuch, Frisell is an anchor of the roster,
and whatever you think of this or that project on the label, they have
always done the utmost to promote their own artists, whether we're talking
the Gipsy Kings, Gidon Kremer, Philip Glass or, yes, John Zorn.
(Incidentally, Bob Hurwitz, the man who rejuvenated and rebuilt Nonesuch in
his own image, was formerly ECM's U.S. label head - small wonder that he
scooped up a substantial handful of artists like Frisell, Steve Reich and
John Adams when he set up his own shop.)

Second, Frisell simply made some of his best records early in his Nonesuch
career. I'm a big fan of 'Rambler' and 'Lookout for Hope' was certainly a
bit of a breakthrough as the first quartet disc, but 'In Line' isn't likely
to make very any Frisell Top Ten lists at this point. And some of the discs
that Frisell has made for Nonesuch tapped into music that has a wider
audience than our little avant-patch, which brought in new listeners...
'Nashville,' certainly.

And third, even if there was no megabucks publicity push for Frisell, he's
one example of a critic's darling who simply accumulated so much momentum
and goodwill with his early recordings that when he was finally signed to a
label with a chunk of Warner's marketing budget behind it, the writers who
loved him all along were finally able to get their editors and magazines in
line - I watched the same thing happening when I worked records by David S.
Ware and Dave Douglas for Columbia and RCA, respectively.

Not that I'm saying there's any magazine out there that would actually give
preferential treatment to artists on labels that spend more advertising
money... heavens, that would never happen...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Skip Heller
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 6:37 PM
Look at Frisell -- while making fine records
on ECM, he didn't get large attention fr the press.  But Nonesuch could
afford a much more efficient and powerful publicist.  Not that I rank myself
with Frisell (who was already much greater at the start of his career than
I'll ever be), but he's a classic example.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Parkins sisters (NZC)
Date: 05 Feb 2002 00:03:42 -0500

Margaret and Sara Parkins are Zeena's sisters, I believe. The former plays
cello and the latter violin on Zeena's Avant disc 'Isabelle.' Andrea is a
cousin, of that much I'm sure.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Ajda the Turkish
Queen
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2002 9:38 PM


The ladies Parkins are sisters, non?

Have they put out a collaborative effort?


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tori Amos, indeed
Date: 04 Feb 2002 21:58:18 -0800



> From: Chris Selvig <[e-mail]>
> Date: Mon, 04 Feb 2002 21:09:42 -0800
> To: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
> Subject: RE: Tori Amos, indeed
>
> (and was it Cobain or Sonic Youth who pushed
> DGC into reissuing the Raincoats records?)

Cobain mentioned them in a few high-profile interviews.  Always preferred
the Slits myself, but that's what makes for horceracing.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Frisell Sells Out [was RE: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus:
Date: 04 Feb 2002 22:07:39 -0800

Frisell may well have been a bad example in some ways.  Charlie Hunter would
probably have worked better.

> Way I see it, there were three major things at work in Frisell's career
> which took him to "the next level" or whatever. First, ECM has always been
> the black sheep at any major with which it has been signed for domestic
> marketing and distribution. Aside from Metheny, Jarrett and the occasional
> breakaway hit from someone like Garbarek, no one on the label was ever
> afforded the full resources of whatever major label ECM might happen to be
> pacted at any given moment.
I knew the guy (he died) who was doing what ECM publicity he could while at
Warners.  If his words are to be taken as true, anything at all would be a
big improvement.

> On Nonesuch, Frisell is an anchor of the roster,
> and whatever you think of this or that project on the label, they have
> always done the utmost to promote their own artists, whether we're talking
> the Gipsy Kings, Gidon Kremer, Philip Glass or, yes, John Zorn.
> (Incidentally, Bob Hurwitz, the man who rejuvenated and rebuilt Nonesuch in
> his own image, was formerly ECM's U.S. label head - small wonder that he
> scooped up a substantial handful of artists like Frisell, Steve Reich and
> John Adams when he set up his own shop.)
>
> Second, Frisell simply made some of his best records early in his Nonesuch
> career. I'm a big fan of 'Rambler' and 'Lookout for Hope' was certainly a
> bit of a breakthrough as the first quartet disc, but 'In Line' isn't likely
> to make very any Frisell Top Ten lists at this point.
Does at my house.  A great Frisell guitar record.

> And some of the discs
> that Frisell has made for Nonesuch tapped into music that has a wider
> audience than our little avant-patch, which brought in new listeners...
> 'Nashville,' certainly.
Yeah, but those folks haven't exactly been big THIS LAND consumers.  They go
more for the stuff with Greg Leisz -- of whom I think the world -- rather
than Joey baron.

> And third, even if there was no megabucks publicity push for Frisell, he's
> one example of a critic's darling who simply accumulated so much momentum
> and goodwill with his early recordings that when he was finally signed to a
> label with a chunk of Warner's marketing budget behind it,
AHA!
> the writers who
> loved him all along were finally able to get their editors and magazines in
> line - I watched the same thing happening when I worked records by David S.
> Ware and Dave Douglas for Columbia and RCA, respectively.

I had an experience in the other direction when Blue Note were advertising
their first MMW record in a paper for which I wrote.   Advertising is the
major whip-crack when you're trying to push a new artist.  And they'll roll
over articles that interfere with that.

> Not that I'm saying there's any magazine out there that would actually give
> preferential treatment to artists on labels that spend more advertising
> money... heavens, that would never happen...
>
> Steve Smith
> [e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tori Amos, indeed
Date: 05 Feb 2002 00:48:41 -0500

> I have a problem with "rip-offs."  A situation where a inferior group
> gets rich or famous by merely imitating another group (normally poorly)
> that it claims as an influence.  I do believe that people deserve
> respect and/or notoriety for their innovations and creativity>


This is how I've long felt about indie-darlings Stereolab. They've long been
lauded for their mix of jazz rhythms, vintage synths, and silly
vocals....not to mention Stereolab imitators like Broadcast and Pram. All of
these bands, but most notably Stereolab, are horribly ripping off the United
States of America. The thing is that most people haven't heard the USA, so
they heap praise on stereolab and ilk for being so inventive.

Ditto for Blonde Redhead in relation to DNA.

a


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Tori Amos, indeed
Date: 05 Feb 2002 01:50:58 EST


In a message dated 2/4/02 4:48:54 PM, [e-mail] writes:

>Though I don't know how I would feel if a
>group that I have affection for (i.e. Mr. Bungle) was being
>"ripped-off."
>
>Zach

lest we all forget...  imitation is the sincerest form of flattery...

k8.



-----
[ .n o t h i n g  i s  w h a t  i s  s a i d. ]

.k a t e  p e t e r s o n.
.c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r.
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>
<A HREF="http://www.icefoundation.org">http://www.icefoundation.org</A>
(roundtable)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: bjork, extended vocal technique, female singers.  non-zc.
Date: 05 Feb 2002 02:08:37 EST


In a message dated 2/4/02 6:12:27 PM, [e-mail] writes:

>> as a performer
>...[HUGE snip]
>> onto my iBook.
>
>
>Ummm.... you married?

not last time i checked...  but there were those two drunken nights...  oh
nevermind...

k


>



-----
[ .n o t h i n g  i s  w h a t  i s  s a i d. ]

.k a t e  p e t e r s o n.
.c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r.
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>
<A HREF="http://www.icefoundation.org">http://www.icefoundation.org</A>
(roundtable)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: stereolab.
Date: 05 Feb 2002 02:20:19 EST


In a message dated 2/5/02 1:33:10 AM, [e-mail] writes:

>This is how I've long felt about indie-darlings Stereolab. They've long
>been
>lauded for their mix of jazz rhythms, vintage synths, and silly
>vocals....not to mention Stereolab imitators like Broadcast and Pram. All
>of these bands, but most notably Stereolab, are horribly ripping off the
United
>States of America. The thing is that most people haven't heard the USA,
>so
>
>they heap praise on stereolab and ilk for being so inventive.

getting back to my original point...  i love, worship and adore stereolab,
they jammed harder than anyone i've ever seen in concert (all the drugs i was
on didn't hurt either), and they ruled.  but they're clear USA and especially
Neu! rip-offs...  i hear the Neu more than USA...

love,
  k8.

>
>



-----
[ .n o t h i n g  i s  w h a t  i s  s a i d. ]

.k a t e  p e t e r s o n.
.c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r.
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>
<A HREF="http://www.icefoundation.org">http://www.icefoundation.org</A>
(roundtable)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: New Music by Carl Stone in RealAudio, Mappings for the week
Date: 05 Feb 2002 01:23:21 -0600

Hi y'all,

This week on Mappings <http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/>,
you'll hear music by electro-acoustic composer Carl Stone.

The show went online Monday evening around 10:00 PM (-0600 GMT) and
will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program
(featuring new works for solo strings with and without electronics by
Martin Bartlett, John Cage, Charlotte Hug, Gyorgy Ligeti, Kaffe
Mathews, LaDonna Smith, and David Tudor, with performances by Irvine
Arditti, Malcolm Goldstein, Garth Knox, Takehisa Kosugi, Stefano
Scodanibbio, and Frances-Marie Uitti) is still available in the
Mappings archive
<http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/index1.htm>, where you
can also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998.

Hope you tune in to the program.

Bests,

Herb

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Bjork ranting+raving (No Zorn Content)
Date: 05 Feb 2002 08:46:49 +0100



> Well - I used to be heavily into the Sugarcubes, and also I do like some
of
> Bj÷rk's music; it's just her singing I can't put up with anymore. To me,
it's
> just "one-dimensional"...; it always sounds exactly the same to me...

I have a very similiar impression - her voice may be really great, but she
always sings in the same way



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
Date: 05 Feb 2002 09:06:00 +0100


----- Original Message -----

> certainly is a great artist).  Look at Frisell -- while making fine
records
> on ECM, he didn't get large attention fr the press.  But Nonesuch could
> afford a much more efficient and powerful publicist.  Not that I rank
myself
> with Frisell (who was already much greater at the start of his career than
> I'll ever be), but he's a classic example.

I don't want to join the whole discussion on the major labels etc., but it
may be worth pointing out that Frisell's Elektra stuff is much better then
his ECM. He recorded some really great records in a row after signing for
elektra



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
Date: 05 Feb 2002 09:15:17 +0100


----- Original Message -----

> Are you not tired of the same patronizing and condescending attitude?
After
> having followed non-mainstream music for almost thirty years, I just don't
buy
> it anymore.

What do you buy, then?
Marcin


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: tzadik sales
Date: 05 Feb 2002 03:12:12 EST

'>>I've wondered about this. Anyone have any idea how well Tzadik releases
sell, and which titles are the "bestsellers?" (I assume that, of all Zorn's
output at least, it's the Elektra/Nonesuch releases which sold the most
units.)

Later,
Ben<<

This was answered a couple of days ago courtesy of Efren with his Zorn=20
interview.  Here goes:


<< JZ: The last thing I wanted to do is start a record company. But=20
practically, I think the only way an artist can survive in this society and=20
retain 100% credibility, integrity and self-respect is do-it-yourself (...)=20
So I started Tzadik records. (...) It couldn=E2=80=99t be more different tha=
n a major=20
corporation. It=E2=80=99s incredibly artist-friendly and it=E2=80=99s based=20=
on profit share.=20
All the expenses that go into making the record are paid up first and then w=
e=20
split the profits. Everybody gets the same budget. Every record on Tzadik is=
=20
made for 5,000 dollars. And this is esoteric music, it=E2=80=99s not gonna s=
ell a lot=20
of copies. But nevertheless, we have records that have sold 35,000 copies on=
=20
our label. And others that have only sold less than a thousand. But the=20
balances are in a good place.  >>

    Later,
            John Threadgould

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Britney
Date: 05 Feb 2002 10:06:57 +0100

>    You have made numerous jabs at the sorts of musicians who perform in
> coffee shops, release records in editions of less than 1000, etc - are you
> suggesting that nothing of worth is created at this level?  I don't think
> obscurity validates art, and a lot of half-assed doodling masquerades as
> "avant-garde," but there are a lot of excellent records made in small
editions.

It seems to be a taboo, that a big percentage of us Z-listers, might have
awful tastes in cultures outside of the arts. Just because we know shit
about it.

Example, based on my own life: I have never eaten $40 limited edition
cabbages, so I won't know if they are better. There are a few restaurants
that runs really expensive cards on 'better' food. They will never reach a
wide audience. Hey, maybe we all miss something!!!!

It's the same in music. Most people know shit about it, and are satisfied
with all the crap they listen to on the radio. No problem.
Regards, Remco Takken


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
Date: 05 Feb 2002 09:46:04 +0100

Skip Heller wrote:
There's a
> very serious publicity machine behind Ms Krall, coupled with her on
> commitment to being the kind of artist that gets magazine covers.  I don't
> find her objectionable, but I also don't think she's exactly light years
> ahead of her peer group.  There's a enough evidence to suggest that, if
your
> label spends enough advertising dollars in a given magaine, you can call
> some shots.  Which probably has a lot to do with who is on the covers of
> magazines.
This is very very true. If you mirror the bigger European jazz magazines to
their American counterparts, one would suspect a difference. The content
surely differs from US magazines (at least some coverage of Brit fusion,
German impro, Scandinavian electronics, New Dutch Swing).

But the covers tell you who's paying for the ads. Diana Krall is on our
magazines, but I don't believe she ever performed in Holland. How could that
be possible, other than some multinational record company paying the
magazine?????

Regards, Remco Takken


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: tzadik sales
Date: 05 Feb 2002 10:26:35 +0100


----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 5:21 AM


well
> > can pay for four that don't.  BAR KOKHBA probably paid for ten Tzadik
> > records.
>
> I've wondered about this. Anyone have any idea how well Tzadik releases
> sell, and which titles are the "bestsellers?" (I assume that, of all
Zorn's
> output at least, it's the Elektra/Nonesuch releases which sold the most
> units.)
>
I read somewhere, probably on the zornlist, that Bar Khokba sold 35,000.
Tzadik being a non-pfrofit organisation, I assume that, to break even with a
release, the have to sell less than 1,000 copies per release.

The 35,000 out of Bar Khokba in this light, provides money for far more than
35 releases.

About elektra: in Europe, Elektra is available in the shops, but so is
Tzadik (and, expensively Avant imports). From the day Tzadik hit the shops,
with the beautiful packaging and new music, I doubt whether the Elektras
still sold a lot.

Regards, Remco



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
Date: 05 Feb 2002 09:52:19 +0100

> Who cares about somebody who plays like Wes Montgomery in 2002 (besides
the
> usual nostalgic of the good old time)? Forty years ago, it was another
> story.
>
I will sell my soul to the devil immediately to sound like Wes Montgomery,
and I really appreciate guys who play like that nowadays. Admitted, record
covers by Russel Malone look bad, but seeing him live in concert is a
completely different story.

Another guy who is run by a big record company that makes stuoid marketing
decisions for him. Malone operates in the 'wrong' part of jazz, where top
executives decide how the young neobop-styles must be marketed.

I am sure more Z-listers would listen to music like this, if it wasn't for
the record companies political agendas, to present 'neobop' as it is now.

Regards, Remco

np Marc Ribot: Saints (it's on Atlantic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjorkasaurus
Date: 05 Feb 2002 09:56:20 +0100


>
> But the entire gamble of labels paying to publish unknown artists and
making
> enough money to run the business has always intrigued me.
>
Ask any artist on sixtieslabel ESP Disk how that works. They never saw a
penny of their 'non compromising noncommercial potential' music. We are
talking second generation remastered cd's of the complete catalogue at this
moment...

Regards, Remco


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: Re: tzadik sales
Date: 05 Feb 2002 10:29:23 +0100 (CET)

Thanks John. I was thinking nobody had read the
transcription! ;-)

Greetings,
EfrΘn

>
> This was answered a couple of days ago courtesy of
> Efren with his Zorn
> interview.  Here goes:
>
>
> << JZ: The last thing I wanted to do is start a
> record company. But
> practically, I think the only way an artist can
> survive in this society and
> retain 100% credibility, integrity and self-respect
> is do-it-yourself (...)
> So I started Tzadik records. (...) It couldnΓÇÖt be
> more different than a major
> corporation. ItΓÇÖs incredibly artist-friendly and
> itΓÇÖs based on profit share.
> All the expenses that go into making the record are
> paid up first and then we
> split the profits. Everybody gets the same budget.
> Every record on Tzadik is
> made for 5,000 dollars. And this is esoteric music,
> itΓÇÖs not gonna sell a lot
> of copies. But nevertheless, we have records that
> have sold 35,000 copies on
> our label. And others that have only sold less than
> a thousand. But the
> balances are in a good place.  >>
>
>     Later,
>             John Threadgould
>
> -
>

_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
Date: 05 Feb 2002 10:37:29 +0100 (CET)

HI,
> np Marc Ribot: Saints (it's on
> Atlantic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

But not anymore. I think he's definitely been thrown
out of Atlantic after that release. A pity? I'm not so
sure.

Greetings,

EfrΘn

_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: stereolab.
Date: 05 Feb 2002 10:43:52 +0100 (CET)

Hi,

As opposed to your satisfactory Stereolab-experience,
I saw them live in Barcelona last September and it was
probably the worst concert I've ever seen.
However, I do enjoy their records, specially their
latest release "Sound-Dust". As far as being as they
want us to believe, I don't agree.
I can't agree with someone's assertion that Pram are
Stereolab imitators, either. There are obvious
similarities, but Pram are much darker and
"avant-gardish" than the "darlings".

Best,

EfrΘn del Valle



>
> getting back to my original point...  i love,
> worship and adore stereolab,
> they jammed harder than anyone i've ever seen in
> concert (all the drugs i was
> on didn't hurt either), and they ruled.  but they're
> clear USA and especially
> Neu! rip-offs...  i hear the Neu more than USA...
>
> love,
>   k8.
>
> >
> >
>
>
>
> -----
> [ .n o t h i n g  i s  w h a t  i s  s a i d. ]
>
> .k a t e  p e t e r s o n.
> .c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r.
> <A
> HREF="http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
> http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>
> <A
>
HREF="http://www.icefoundation.org">http://www.icefoundation.org</A>
>
> (roundtable)
>
> -
>

_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Vincent Kargatis / Anne Larson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: hip-hop redux
Date: 05 Feb 2002 13:06:14 +0200

I dl'ed a number of hip-hop tracks recently, many from the recent 'deranged
rap' discussion.  I've certainly seen Cannibal Ox's THE COLD VEIN tossed
around on year-end lists all over the place, but I gotta admit, every single
thing I've heard (~3-4 tracks from each) from the Cannibal Ox, Company Flow,
Anti-Pop Consortium crowd leaves me dead cold.  I get no audio enjoyment out
of it at all, and I'm wondering whether I'm missing something.  I guess I'm
not MC-centric, which this stuff seems to be, with the lo-fi, gloomy urban
backgrounds, and to my ears, largely NOT rhythmically-related raps
dominating the whole thing.

Otoh, I could listen to The Coup all day (I love The Coup!**), and Outkast,
and the tracks I grabbed from Aesop Rock and Quasimoto are cool (tho I
prefer AR).  (And with older stuff, I favored PE, Native Tongue, Gang Starr,
etc.)

I'm guessing the first group of stuff is just not my bag, sonically, but I'm
checking whether that "makes sense" to those familiar with all of the
above - do you hear a distinction between those groups?  It seems one key
difference for me is that the group I like always seem to be "in the
pocket", the MCs interacting, staying with, and gleefully skipping over the
beats, where as Company Flow etc uses it primarily, to my ears, as sonic
background.  To the experts, is it likely I'm missing something (am I
"mis-hearing" it?), or does it sound like, given my preferences, more
listening to the first group won't help much?

I'm asking cuz, usually, I'm not far outside the "mainstream" of the
"adventurous listening" crowd, but I'm not getting this Cannibal Ox thing at
all.

** The Coup is interesting - the music and raps rule, though I don't swallow
Boots' communist horse-shit for a second.  Reminds me of enjoying religious
music (Orthodox liturgical hymns, Prince's "The Cross", plenty in between)
while being a stone-cold atheist.  But I guess I came to pop music pretty
late in life (raised on jazz), so lyrical content has never been much of an
issue with me - although, who couldn't appreciate stuff like

"Ay man, I got a disease...It's called broke, wi no muthafuckin' respect,
and it's an STD, but you ain't never gon'nut, cuz it comes from a long
legacy of getting fucked".

(Otoh, put that in an El-P production, and I likely wouldn't give a crap.)
--
Vincent Kargatis
np: Rowe/Muller/Sugimoto - THE WORLD TURNED UPSIDE DOWN (Erstwhile)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Major releases, Was: Re: Re: Bjork ranting+raving
Date: 05 Feb 2002 12:26:05 +0100


> > np Marc Ribot: Saints (it's on
> > Atlantic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
>
> But not anymore. I think he's definitely been thrown
> out of Atlantic after that release. A pity? I'm not so
> sure.
>
I heard about that. Still, it's strange to get such an uncompromising solo
guitar album released by a major...

Would you believe the recent Atlantic releases by multisaxofonist James
Carter aren't even available in Holland? Worldwide huh? Those major artists
get fucked over big time. A small label would at least allow you to sell
cd's at shows: a big label helps the stores, not the artists. I doubt
whether James Carter ever had more than 2,500 copies of his last two cd's
out there.

He would be way better of dealing with an indie, just as Marc Ribot is now.
Regards, Remco Takken


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ari <[e-mail]>
Subject: music & cooking
Date: 05 Feb 2002 12:29:46 +0100

> Example, based on my own life: I have never eaten $40 limited edition
> cabbages, so I won't know if they are better. There are a few restaurants
> that runs really expensive cards on 'better' food. They will never reach a
> wide audience. Hey, maybe we all miss something!!!!

You are, believe me ;-) But most of the 'better' music isn't more expensive
than the crap. So...

> It's the same in music. Most people know shit about it, and are satisfied
> with all the crap they listen to on the radio. No problem.

...I don't think this is a good comparison. I'll take you to the best
Belgian restaurant and you'll go bankrupt, cause you'll wanna go there twice
a week. Play some Xenakis and your neigbours will turn on the volume of the
crap on their radio (but who cares?).

Ari

np: G. Klucevsek - Who stole the polka? (great fun!)

btw isn't zorn crazy about (expensive) food in chic restaurants? (where are
the French members of this list?) (think i read that somewher)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Re: Weather Report "Live In Japan"
Date: 05 Feb 2002 07:55:57 -0500

>>For me Live In Tokyo is the one.  This is an early version of
>>the band tearing it up in 1972. Close to (dare I use the phrase?)
>>free jazz at times.

>>What label is this on, and has it been issued on CD?

* [e-mail]:
>Weather Report:  one of the greatest groups of musicians that ever
>existed.  Live in Tokyo was released on CD in Japan, if you look
>around you'll find it.

Weather Report "Live In Japan" CD (Sony Japan: SRCS-9139)
3/31/97  Y2913


-Patrick



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: IAM etc. (was Re: d-mented R&B/hip hop)
Date: 05 Feb 2002 07:56:41 -0500

* the muff <[e-mail]>
>speaking of french hip hop, i'm surprised no one here has mentioned IA=
M.
>they're much more commercial than any of the previously mentioned arti=
sts.
>>they have great beats, rhythm, etc.

Well, I guess you missed my two posts. :-b

<snip> ... If you're willing to try (again), or perhaps something
you haven't heard ... give a listen to Solaar's first 2 LPs, IAM's
2nd and 3rd, Faf Larage's "C'est ma cause", Shurik'n's "O=F9 je vis",
Intik's "S/T", maybe 3eme Oeil's LP and Oxmo Puccino's "Op=E9ra puccino=
"
(it helps to like Biggie :) or mid-period Supreme NTM. ... <snip>

<snip> ... Early Solaar is the best (first couple of LPs), but there's
much more there if you look further.  He's simply the name that first
made it internationally.  If interested, check out the whole Marseilles
scene [the main group IAM, and spin off work from Shurik'n, Imhotep,
Akhenaton & Freeman (the last two don't move me as much as the first)]
plus related groups/artists like Faf Larage, 3eme Oeil, Intik (Arabic/
Algerian connection, and a nice reggae vibe), Oxmo Puccino, Fonky
Family etc.  There's also Paris-based stuff like Supreme NTM, and
Minist=E8re Amer. ... <snip>

>kinda like st germain for the jazz enthusiast.

This, I completely disagree with.  I would argue that IAM can hold
their own with the best of them (hip hoppers).  I'm assuming you meant
to imply that St. Germain is "jazz lite" and therefore not the same
as the "real thing", which I believe IAM is.  If I read you wrong,
my apologies.


-Patrick



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Re: (recent) French pop/rock (was Re: French rap)
Date: 05 Feb 2002 07:57:32 -0500

* "Andrew" <[e-mail]>:
>On this note, I've lately been getting into the Bertrand Burgalat
>record, "The Sssound of Mmmusic"- it's like Serge Gainsbourg meets Air=
.

I'm way behind here (who can keep up with this list? :) so I have no
idea if any _recent_ French pop has been discussed.  I'll second the
recommendation for this particular Burgalat LP, and list some others
I like, in case anyone cares/is into the same/wants to tell me it's
crap etc.:

Katerine, Helena (Noguerra), Fran=E7oiz Breut, Dominique A, Autour de
Lucie, Yann Tiersen, Keren Ann, Benjamin Biolay, Coralie Cl=E9ment,
Natacha Tertone, Jorane, Sophie-Meriem Rockwell, J=E9r=F4me Mini=E8re e=
tc.


-Patrick



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Witkowski, Marcin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: New Otomo Yoshihide?
Date: 05 Feb 2002 13:21:16 -0000

Dear all

Anybody got the idea what is it?

YOSHIHIDE, OTOMO (FEAT. SHIMADA MASAHIKO): MIRA NI NARUMAD
Label: CHARIZMA

Thanks
Marcin



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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: music & cooking
Date: 05 Feb 2002 15:27:36 +0100

> > Example, based on my own life: I have never eaten $40 limited edition
> > cabbages, so I won't know if they are better. There are a few
restaurants
> > that runs really expensive cards on 'better' food. They will never reach
a
> > wide audience. Hey, maybe we all miss something!!!!
>
> You are, believe me ;-) But most of the 'better' music isn't more
expensive
> than the crap. So...
>
Like the really good restaurants, they are harder to find though. And
believe me, the ten or so Avant releases I own, ARE expensive imports, not
to mention Zorn's Parachute Box. Exploring weird music, and trying new
stuff, is definitely more expensive than listening to the radio all day.

> > It's the same in music. Most people know shit about it, and are
satisfied
> > with all the crap they listen to on the radio. No problem.
>
> ...I don't think this is a good comparison. I'll take you to the best
> Belgian restaurant and you'll go bankrupt, cause you'll wanna go there
twice
> a week. Play some Xenakis and your neigbours will turn on the volume of
the
> crap on their radio (but who cares?).
That's true, but I still can't understand why a guy like Steven Bernstein
isn't world famous. He is loveable. Even my neighbours would like Sex Mob,
if they only knew. Same with Bar Khokba. Good for Zorn that it sells good,
but I can't believe why this cd didn't sell 350,000 copies. Yes, I believe
my neighbours would like it, even though they might hate Xenakis...
Regards, Remco


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: tzadik sales
Date: 05 Feb 2002 09:25:51 -0500

Just to add some perspective on jazz sales.
Tim Berne recently told me that Screwgun sales average about 1,500-2,000.
And from a slightly more commercial angle... D.D. Jackson sells about 5,000 on
Justin Time, which has global distribution.

James Hale

Remco Takken wrote:

> I read somewhere, probably on the zornlist, that Bar Khokba sold 35,000.
> Tzadik being a non-pfrofit organisation, I assume that, to break even with a
> release, the have to sell less than 1,000 copies per release.
>
> The 35,000 out of Bar Khokba in this light, provides money for far more than
> 35 releases.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: USA/Stereolab etc. (was Re: Tori Amos, indeed)
Date: 05 Feb 2002 09:32:50 -0500

> I have a problem with "rip-offs."  A situation where a inferior group
> gets rich or famous by merely imitating another group (normally poorly)
> that it claims as an influence.  I do believe that people deserve
> respect and/or notoriety for their innovations and creativity>

* "Andrew" <[e-mail]>:
>This is how I've long felt about indie-darlings Stereolab. They've
>long been lauded for their mix of jazz rhythms, vintage synths, and
>silly vocals....not to mention Stereolab imitators like Broadcast
>and Pram.  All of these bands, but most notably Stereolab, are
>horribly ripping off the United States of America. The thing is
>that most people haven't heard the USA, so they heap praise on
>stereolab and ilk for being so inventive.

I have the USA LP (and the Field Hippies ...), enjoy Neu!, Can etc.
and absolutely adore Stereolab, Broadcast and Pram!  "Silly vocals"?
To each his own. ;)  I definitely would not say that Broadcast & Pram
are Stereolab imitators.  I would put them on almost equal ground.
Broadcast are the closest to the USA sound, but they put a new twist
on it, IMO ... and this isn't even mentioning the Piccioni, Umiliani,
Morricone, Barry etc. that inspires them.  Everything's been done
before.  Nothing is new.  Why listen to anything since the first
music made by mankind? ;-b ;-b  All this said, I have the same
problem with those folks that heap praise without knowing.  I know
full well that "it's been done before, and perhaps better", but it
doesn't stop me from listening ...

* =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>:
>I can't agree with someone's assertion that Pram are Stereolab
>imitators, either. There are obvious similarities, but Pram are
>much darker and "avant-gardish" than the "darlings".

Indeed!  Pram's last few albums have been exceptional, IMHO.

* [e-mail]:
>getting back to my original point...  i love, worship and adore
>stereolab, they jammed harder than anyone i've ever seen in concert
>(all the drugs i was on didn't hurt either), and they ruled.  but
>they're clear USA and especially Neu! rip-offs...  i hear the Neu
>more than USA...

Early Stereolab is clearly directly Neu! inspired, but what they've
been doing on their albums since "Emperor Tomato Ketchup" is taking
them further & further away from these origins ... and mixing in
so many different styles/influences (my .02).


-Patrick



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Re: French pock/rop
Date: 05 Feb 2002 09:32:47 -0500

Following up, little comments here and there ...

* duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
>Of the classic 60's chanson singer/songwriter generation, there's
>Jacques Brel and Barbara, on a par in their domain with Dylan or
>Joni Mitchell in theirs (Georges Brassens and L=3DE9o Ferr=3DE9 deserv=
e
>mention as well=3D2E)

I enjoy both Brel & Barbara, but still need to explore their work
in more depth.  Who would you compare Brassens and Ferr=3DE9 to,
if you had to? :)

>Gainsbourg I see as a highly gifted wisecrack and self-promo man,
>not much more (the only song of his I find enjoyable is "Comic strip",
>sung by Brigitte Bardot, an irresistibly cute jingle, really).

I like both the French & English versions of this little number!

>The duo Rita Mitsouko stands out for me as the one hip mid-80's
>new wave band, mostly thanks to singer Catherine Ringer's devil-
>may-care energy and humor.  Recommended album: "Le No-comprendo"
>(exhuberant, funky, out-to-lunch chanson).

I have some of their stuff, and have enjoyed them from time to time.
I think a friend put "Le No-comprendo" on a tape for me once ...

>I have a weakness for singer Patricia Kaas, her low raspy voice
>coupled with some of the more-than-decent blues-rock songs written
>for her in the late 80's/early 90's made her, at least for a while,
>a credible French pop star.

I have heard some Kass as well, that I liked, but not all.  Would
you recommend any album(s) in particular?  I assume her recent
stuff is no longer of interest?

>As for French rappers, I just don't believe them.  They act angry
>'cause they saw American rappers act angry and become multi-
>millionaires.

Fair enough ... in some cases, but I still think a small number
of them stand out/have done quality work.  I personally think
French is a great language to rhyme/flow in (very smooth), as
are Spanish & Portuguese.  Japanese & Turkish also work
surprisingly well. :)

>The whole gospel/talking-blues tradition that's behind hip-hop
>is entirely foreign to them.

You have a point here, although it doesn't diminish my appreciation
for what's been done/is being done.

>Bj=F6rk's ears will never be in the same league as Gainsbourg's
>(without very costly plastic surgery, that is) !!

Ha!!  Serge's ears on her and a collage cover like "Vu de l'ext=E9rieur=
"
would be amusing ... "Bj=F6rk sings Gainsbourg", which I don't think
I'd want, even though I enjoy Bj=F6rk.

* Tosh <[e-mail]>:
>With due and great respect to Duncan, I disagree of course with his
>commentary on Gainsbourg.  Of course I am biased since I published
>the english translation of 'Evguenie Sokolov,' Gainsbourg's only work
>of fiction.  I think his music is really great from the late 50's to
>the 70's.  The 80's were dodgy at best, but I think he's a great
>writer.  i strongly suggest his album from the 70's Melody Nelson
>as well as some of early 50's Jazz/Latin pop.

Days late, but I'm a Gainsbourg fan as well.  I would agree that the
late 50's to the mid 70's ('76, maybe) is the period to be concerned
with, and would also recommend "Histoire de Melody Nelson", as well
as plenty of others.

So, since they were never mentioned (or were they?), does anyone here
like Fran=E7oise Hardy, Brigitte Bardot, Brigitte Fontaine, Chantal Goy=
a,
France Gall (gasp! ;), or anyone else along these lines?  I enjoy a
good chunk of their 60's and (mostly) early 70's stuff (just a couple
Gall LPs), but recent albums from Hardy & Fontaine have also been nice
(IMO, of course).

* "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>:
>BTW, the last issue of MOJO has a good intro to French pop. It shows
>that French pop was at the best when it did not try to imitate the
>English/US models (and at worst...).

From my experience, I would agree with this. :)

>And do not forget Mano Negra, maybe the only French band to have a
>song with some (limited, I am sure) visibility in the US in a while
>(maybe because it talked of Arizona :-).

Speaking of, and pushing things outside of France ... I would also
recommend Manu Chao's two records, and esp. "Pr=F3xima Estaci=F3n:
Esperanza", which I think is wonderful!

* Bertrand Guggenheim <[e-mail]>:
>You did not mention Henri Salvador. One of the most amazing and totall=
y
>out came from the cd Jazz Magazine had with its  last december issue:
>"I" (Chanson Surrealiste), a 1948 song.

I would second the recommendation for Salvador, if it hasn't been
done already.

* "Bza" <[e-mail]>:
>Following Bashung in my personnal french all of fame there is Dominiqu=
e A.
>As Bashung, there is an evolution in his albums....He started with som=
e
>popular hits (like 'twenty-two Bar') but the albums were more complex.
>Then his albums became more and more complex so people found them
>>hard-to-listen but for me all of them are must-have albums.

Nice to see another Dom A. fan.  His most recent, "Auguri", is still
great!  I like some of the early stuff, but probably spend the most
time with "Remu=E9".


-Patrick



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Selling: Blind Idiot God CDs
Date: 05 Feb 2002 09:33:49 -0500

Hi all,

A friend is parting with these.  All three in AS NEW condition.

** PRICES ARE US$ POSTAGE PAID ** in North America (more for overseas)
If you don't like a price, make me an OFFER.

$ 9 -- Blind Idiot God - "Blind Idiot God" US CD (SST: cd104) 1987
       [Excellent debut from this trio on the good ol' SST label.]

$ 9 -- Blind Idiot God - "Undertow" US CD (Enemy: emcd107) 1988
       [2nd album.  Feat. Zorn (alto) on "Purged Specimen" (not on
       the LP), plus a cover of Funkadelic's "Alice In My Fantasies".]

$16 -- Blind Idiot God - "Cyclotron" JAP CD (Avant: avan010) 1992
       [3rd album from Hawkins, Katz, and Epstein.  Loud, dense
       instrumental grind, dub & funk produced by Bill Laswell.]

Thanks for looking,


-Patrick
[e-mail]



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mathieu =?iso-8859-1?Q?B=E9langer?=  <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Parkins sisters (NZC)
Date: 05 Feb 2002 09:50:43 -0500

Hello,

>  > The ladies Parkins are sisters, non?
>cousins, i think.

There was an interview with Andrea Parkins in the Voce del Popolo of
December - a magazine run by the folks of Casa del Popolo, Montreal's
best venue - Zeena and her are cousins:

http://www.casadelpopolo.com/voce0112/AndreaParkins.html

Tschuss,

Mathieu

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mathieu =?iso-8859-1?Q?B=E9langer?=  <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (recent) French pop/rock
Date: 05 Feb 2002 09:56:32 -0500

Hello,

>Katerine, Helena (Noguerra), Fran=E7oiz Breut, Dominique A, Autour de
>Lucie, Yann Tiersen, Keren Ann, Benjamin Biolay, Coralie Cl=E9ment,
>Natacha Tertone, Jorane, Sophie-Meriem Rockwell, J=E9r=F4me Mini=E8re etc.

Just want to point out that Jorane is from Quebec (can't remember the
exact town though) and J=E9r=F4me Mini=E8re has been living in Quebec -
Montreal to be exact - for the past few years.

Tschuss,

Mathieu

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
Date: 05 Feb 2002 10:19:14 -0500

But he's not, not anymore. Least that's what I heard from one of the
survivors of the latest corporate bloodbath.

And Russell Malone's probably not safe over at Universal, either. They've
just put the marketing guy in charge and announced a roster trim and a new
emphasis on big business records. They're pumped about an upcoming release
by Natalie Cole, and by Roy Hargrove's first hip-hop/neo-soul oriented
release. (Of course, in the latter case it's at least an extension of his
own actual interests.) Last thing I got in the mail from Verve was an
excruciating remix CD, with dance mixes of Billie Holiday's "Strange Fruit,"
things by Ella, Sarah, Shirley Horn, etc. I wouldn't put much stock in the
longevity of Malone, Kurt Rosenwinkel or Chris Potter right about now. I'd
love to be proven wrong.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Remco Takken
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 3:52 AM

np Marc Ribot: Saints (it's on Atlantic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: tzadik sales
Date: 05 Feb 2002 10:33:42 -0500

One thing to bear in mind is that "sells" is often a reference to selling
product from the label/distributor to the stores, and doesn't always take
into account sell-through and returns. Tim's sales are largely one-way, so
it's probably an accurate barometer. But in D.D.'s case, fine though he is,
I'd truly question whether those 5,000 discs are selling to consumers or
just to stores and then piling up in returns. (I'd assume they'll be in
cutout bins before long.)

The only reason I bring this up is because of the two D.D. Jackson discs we
released during my RCA stint. Both were terrific records; we laid out
something like 5-10K copies of each in the U.S. alone. The actual sales
figures, according to Soundscan, did not break a thousand while I was
there - and that's with more positive press than we ever could have dared to
hope for. Worldwide the figures may be somewhat better, but still, we were
all completely appalled, and naturally D.D. was out pretty soon after we
(the marketing, PR and A&R staff) were all sacked. The new guys wanted him
to make a "Brad Mehldau record."

Of course, those sales are more a reflection of inadequate advertising and
too little radio/TV exposure - I still think the records are some of the
best of his career to date (though the second one was "controversial" in
that it flirted openly with electric jazz, something your designated
"acoustic" guys aren't supposed to do).

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of James Hale
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 9:26 AM


Just to add some perspective on jazz sales.
Tim Berne recently told me that Screwgun sales average about 1,500-2,000.
And from a slightly more commercial angle... D.D. Jackson sells about 5,000
on
Justin Time, which has global distribution.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tom Benton <[e-mail]>
Subject: alasnoaxis
Date: 05 Feb 2002 09:42:07 -0600 (CST)

  Isn't the second W&W disc from Jim Black's Alasnoaxis band due out this
month?  At least that was the word months and months ago - does anyone
know about this?
  And to link this, in a roundabout way, to the list discussion at hand,
when both Black and Chris Speed were asked "Who is one person you are
still looking forward to playing with and why?" (in interviews at
allaboutjazz.com), they both answered to the effect of: "Bjork.  Do I need
a reason?"


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: French pock/rop
Date: 05 Feb 2002 07:58:17 -0800

>I am a huge Godard fan, so I am dying to hear Chantal Goya.  Sadly I
>saw one of her albums (an early hits collection) on my travels, but
>foolishly I didn't purchase it.

=46rance Gall is pure great pop trash!  I don't know her recent work,
but I do have a best of France Gall album and it's great.  Also
thanks for everyone who recommended Henri Salvador - I'll check him
out for sure.

>
>So, since they were never mentioned (or were they?), does anyone here
>like Fran=E7oise Hardy, Brigitte Bardot, Brigitte Fontaine, Chantal Goya,
>France Gall (gasp! ;), or anyone else along these lines?  I enjoy a
>good chunk of their 60's and (mostly) early 70's stuff (just a couple
>Gall LPs), but recent albums from Hardy & Fontaine have also been nice
>(IMO, of course).
>

--
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Brummer, Charlie" <[e-mail]>
Subject: classic C&W
Date: 05 Feb 2002 10:01:23 -0600

Skip's list of classic C&W is a good starting point.  Here are some others.


I'd amplify the George Jones--I've had the Essential GJ on Epic (2 discs) on
heavy rotation lately.

The latest two Merle Haggard discs--If I Could Only Fly and Roots--are
excellent.  I'd recommend just about anything by Hag, although there are a
few stinkers in his output. (About 10 years ago, the New Yorker devoted
nearly an entire issue to an article on Hag--it was a fabulous chronicle of
one of America's foremost musicians.)

Johnny Cash can do (almost) no wrong.  I have a couple of the Bear Family
collections (wish I had 'em all) as well as his recent American
recordings.....all well worth having.  The live Folsom Prison/San Quentin
twofer is essential.

The Carter Family complete recordings on Rounder are excellent early
country.

Bill Monroe for excellent bluegrass, in addition to Skip's suggestions--the
Bear Family discs may be too much right off, but all have some hot picking.

For a while back in college, I was into the outlaws--Waylon Jennings, David
Allen Coe, etc....They have some good stuff mixed with a bunch that isn't
very good at all.  Try DAC's greatest hits if you want a sampler of this
subgenre.

And there's always Conway Twitty--scattered stuff of his is great, but most
isn't.....

A couple more recent country artists:  Emmylou Harris has many excellent
albums, my favorite may be "Roses in the Snow."  Dwight Yoakam, particularly
his first few discs, plays some fantastic country, but I've been less
impressed with his last few.

A bit off the pure country path, but that find their way on to my CD player
with regularity:
Jerry Jeff Walker, especially his live "A Man Must Carry On" 2 vol set
Guy Clark--his early stuff (The Essential... I think is the name of the best
set)
Butch Hancock--Eats Away the Night
Joe Ely--Early stuff

Charlie

np:  Dave Douglas--Charms of the Night Sky

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: sales
Date: 05 Feb 2002 11:06:02 EST

>>Tim Berne recently told me that Screwgun sales average about 1,500-2,000.<<

If that's sold & paid for, then that is pretty fantastic for average. Certainly better than ours.

Steve
Cuneiform Records

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ari <[e-mail]>
Subject: DD Jackson (was: tzadik sales)
Date: 05 Feb 2002 17:06:48 +0100

> The only reason I bring this up is because of the two D.D. Jackson discs =
we
> released during my RCA stint. Both were terrific records; we laid out
> something like 5-10K copies of each in the U.S. alone. The actual sales
> figures, according to Soundscan, did not break a thousand while I was
> there - and that's with more positive press than we ever could have dared=
 to
> hope for. Worldwide the figures may be somewhat better, but still, we wer=
e
> all completely appalled, and naturally D.D. was out pretty soon after we
> (the marketing, PR and A&R staff) were all sacked. The new guys wanted hi=
m
> to make a "Brad Mehldau record."

Hi Steve,

can you tell something more about these two discs?
The virtuosity and swing in DD's music is amazing. The independent playing
of his left and right hand is just incredible!
I own a few of his collaborations with David Murray and two of his albums o=
n
Justin Time, "Rythm Dance" being my favourite. Are the two on RCA comparabl=
e
or even better?

Thanks for any comments,
Ari

np: laswell & br=F6tzmann - low life


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: stereolab
Date: 05 Feb 2002 17:05:48 +0100




Efren wrote:

> As opposed to your satisfactory Stereolab-experience,
> I saw them live in Barcelona last September and it was
> probably the worst concert I've ever seen.
> However, I do enjoy their records, specially their
> latest release "Sound-Dust". As far as being as they
> want us to believe, I don't agree.

There are two strange things about Stereolab, in my opinion.
First of all, I've seen them live a couple of times (ever since
the release of "Dots & Loops"), and I don't think they were ever
really brilliant (even though they were always at least good).
It is always as if their songs rely too much on the lush production
and arranging details to really work in a live context.
Notable exceptions are always the older songs, like "Metronomic
Underground", which were probably more developed with a live situation
in mind in the first place. But then again, I've become a bit bored
by how they turned "Metronomic Underground" into the set-closing
staple piece.
Which brings me to the second remark. At least since "Emperor Tomato
Ketchup", every Stereolab album has been more sophisticated, more
intricately detailed, and more lushly produced than the previous
one. However, this does not necessarily mean that each album is
better than the one before. Having preferred "Dots & Loops" over
"Emperor Tomato Ketchup" for quite some time, I have now arrived
at the conclusion that the latter is actually the better album,
simply because it contains better songs (on the whole).
It was the release of "Sound-Dust" which triggered this nutshell
analysis, by the way; it is the first Stereolab albums in many
years that didn't catch my attention enough to even buy it...

Frankco



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: Re: music & cooking
Date: 05 Feb 2002 17:47:41 +0100 (CET)

HI,

> >
> Like the really good restaurants, they are harder to
> find though. And
> believe me, the ten or so Avant releases I own, ARE
> expensive imports, not
> to mention Zorn's Parachute Box. Exploring weird
> music, and trying new
> stuff, is definitely more expensive than listening
> to the radio all day.

Well, most of all the commercial garbage that they put
on the radio is really expensive: you spend 15$ in a
Cd of which probably just two songs are worth the
money (basically the singles).

> That's true, but I still can't understand why a guy
> like Steven Bernstein
> isn't world famous. He is loveable. Even my
> neighbours would like Sex Mob,
> if they only knew. Same with Bar Khokba. Good for
> Zorn that it sells good,
> but I can't believe why this cd didn't sell 350,000
> copies. Yes, I believe
> my neighbours would like it, even though they might
> hate Xenakis...
> Regards, Remco

It's easily understandable. My mother loves Masada,
Pachora, David Krakauer,... but she's been exposed to
that music only through me. She had just listened to
Julio Iglesias before! Maybe if more people could have
access to this kind of product they'd be immediately
hooked up- but radio stations won't just play that
stuff. A pity.

Greetings,

EfrΘn del VAlle

_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: stereolab
Date: 05 Feb 2002 11:47:35 EST


In a message dated 2/5/02 11:15:04 AM, [e-mail] writes:

>Notable exceptions are always the older songs, like "Metronomic
>Underground", which were probably more developed with a live situation
>in mind in the first place.

this is a good point.  i saw stereolab about a month after emperor tomato
ketchup was released in the states, and that album (and prior efforts, imo)
was much more geared towards live-what-amounts-to-jam-sessions.  in a lot of
ways, i kind of see them as the grateful dead or phish of electronica.  they
played finney chapel, which is a chapel that seats about 200 or maybe a few
more and a balcony that goes around from the sides of the stage to the front
of the top tier of the chapel, in oberlin, with probably the best sound
reinforcement they'd ever played with before or since.  i think that intimate
atmosphere, plus the material they played (almost all stuff off of ETK), just
made the whole thing almost *too* good.  they encored with metronomic
underground (one of the few things i specifically remember about the show)
and played it for a good 20-30 minutes.  it was sick.

so...  i don't know.  i'd be interested to see them in a club where everyone
around me i didn't know, the kid running sound i didn't know, and i hadn't
eaten such deadly mushrooms...  <laugh>  i'm sure it wouldn't be the same but
i know i would shake my ass and enjoy it all the same...

love,
  k8.

n.p. - ween, 'the mollusk'



-----
[ .n o t h i n g  i s  w h a t  i s  s a i d. ]

.k a t e  p e t e r s o n.
.c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r.
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>
<A HREF="http://www.icefoundation.org">http://www.icefoundation.org</A>
(roundtable)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Richard Gardner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Weather Report "Live in Japan"
Date: 05 Feb 2002 17:11:53 +0000

on 5/2/02 12:57 PM, Zorn List Digest at
[e-mail] wrote:

> Weather Report "Live In Japan" CD (Sony Japan: SRCS-9139)
> 3/31/97  Y2913


In the UK this album has been a normal release for some years (As you can
see its 2 CDs for the price of one):
Live in Tokyo=A0=A0
Weather Report  Amazon Price: =A312.99
(26 January, 1998) Number of Discs: 2
Label: Sony Jazz Catalogue Number: 4892082
Track Listings=20
1. Medley  2. Vertical invader  3. Seventh arrow  4. TH
5. Doctor Honoris Causa  6. Surucucu  7. Lost
8. Early minor  9. Directions   10. Orange lady   11. Eurydice
12. Moors   13. Tears   14. Umbrellas


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rev. Freud Hairs" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Ventura City Hall: Eugene Chadbourne this Saturday!
Date: 05 Feb 2002 09:15:56 -0800

THIS Saturday
February 9, 8 p.m.
Ventura City Hall Atrium, 501 Poli St, Ventura, CA
$10 Admission

Dr. Eugene Chadbourne!
Avant-Militant Banjoist and guitarist

Opening: Jeff Kaiser and Brad Dutz
(Trumpet and Percussion)

Tickets at the door only! No advance sales.

For Directions: http://www.mapblast.com/
**************************

http://www.pfmentum.com
http://www.newcreativemusic.com





-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Benjamin Pequet)
Subject: Fwd: Re: French pop/crock
Date: 05 Feb 2002 12:19:47 -0500

At 10:58 AM 2/5/2002, Tosh wrote:
>>I am a huge Godard fan, so I am dying to hear Chantal Goya.  Sadly I saw=
=20
>>one of her albums (an early hits collection) on my travels, but foolishly=
=20
>>I didn't purchase it.
>
>France Gall is pure great pop trash!  I don't know her recent work, but I=
=20
>do have a best of France Gall album and it's great.  Also thanks for=20
>everyone who recommended Henri Salvador - I'll check him out for sure.

Ok, I admit I haven't read this thread or any other from very close on this=
=20
mailing-list recently, and / thus may fail to see the irony (would be much=
=20
needed, imo) in these recent posts...

Can someone please seriously explain to me what (bj=F6rk,) chantal goya,=20
france gall, henri salvador, ... and the names dropping of two dozen=20
middle- to sub-par french speaking bands / singers, have to do with=
 anything?



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Britney
Date: 05 Feb 2002 09:25:00 -0800


On Mon, 04 Feb 2002 19:47:14 -0800  Chris Selvig wrote:
>
>    You have made numerous jabs at the sorts of musicians who perform in
> coffee shops, release records in editions of less than 1000, etc - are you
> suggesting that nothing of worth is created at this level?  I don't think
> obscurity validates art, and a lot of half-assed doodling masquerades as
> "avant-garde," but there are a lot of excellent records made in small editions.

I never suggested that, I was simply trying to say that small does not
automatically means beautiful and big means evil. Bottom line what matters,
for me as least, is talent, and we can find it with both majors and obscure
labels.

>    And judging from the recent whining about falling record sales, I'm not
> the exalted big entertainment money is being managed so well, after all.

And this is the only business going down these days?

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: alasnoaxis
Date: 05 Feb 2002 12:48:16 -0500 (EST)

Yup:

And Flip Phillips liked and Oscar Peterson liked
playing with Fred Astaire and Johnny Hodges played
with Lawrence Welk. Just because one musician wants to
play with another doesn't make the second any better.

Ken Waxman



--- Tom Benton <[e-mail]> wrote:
>   Isn't the second W&W disc from Jim Black's
> Alasnoaxis band due out this month?  At least that
was the word months and months ago - does anyone
> know about this? And to link this, in a roundabout
way, to the list discussion at hand, when both Black
and Chris Speed were asked "Who is one person you are
> still looking forward to playing with and why they
both answered to the effect of: "Bjork.  Do I need
> a reason?"


=====
Ken Waxman
[e-mail]
www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos

______________________________________________________________________
Web-hosting solutions for home and business! http://website.yahoo.ca

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: hey nirav, drop me a line
Date: 05 Feb 2002 18:06:30 +0000

everyone else, my apologies. but you can drop me a line too, if you want...

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Independent Groups
Date: 05 Feb 2002 13:32:15 -0500

A week or two ago I had asked the list about an idea I had to bring
groups to my campus.  I got into contact with a professor that wants to
sit down with me and discuss specifics.  He has long been in charge of
bringing writers to speak, so he was experience in booking people and
finding money to do so.  He told me that he wants names when we meet.

I realized that I really only know the heavy weights in the genre -- the
Zorns, the Vandermarks -- or dead guys.  Can any one give me some names
or places to contact to find lesser known artists (preferably in the
Midwest) that would be willing to come to a small college and do their
thing for a relatively modest amount?  Accessibility (musically
speaking) is also a key.

Zach


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjorkasaurus
Date: 05 Feb 2002 18:33:22 +0000

>From: Jim Flannery <[e-mail]>
>
>And for some reason I feel an urge to remind y'all that the Sugarcubes were
>not
>her first band, that she'd been at it for 4 or 5 years by *that* time

Bjork made her first LP at the age of 12, singing 'hippie folk' music. For
me, she's one of the great underachievers in music, I like what she's done
(good contemporary pop, but ultimately disposible), I feel like she's
capable of doing a lot more, breaking out of the electronica mode into
something with a lot more depth. Her Unplugged show really hinted at that,
with the unusual instruments and players like Oliver Lake. There was a
recent documentary that showed sessions for Vespertine, and she was talking
about that album being a balance of purely electronic sounds with acoustic
orchestral (strings) playing, but it didn't quite turn out that way. She
would do well with something more in the vein of  the INA-GRM music, but
unfortunately she's still on a major label...

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
Date: 05 Feb 2002 10:34:33 -0800


On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 09:15:17 +0100  "Marcin Gokieli" wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Patrice L. Roussel <[e-mail]>
>
> > Are you not tired of the same patronizing and condescending attitude?
> After
> > having followed non-mainstream music for almost thirty years, I just don't
> buy
> > it anymore.
>
> What do you buy, then?

Reading my statement above I realize that it could be misunderstood. By "not
buying it anymore", I meant the argument that Skip was pushing (people being
clueless, illustrated by the Mark Twain quote).

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: French pop/crock
Date: 05 Feb 2002 10:11:51 -0800

>Nothing that serious!  Just talking about music.
>
>Can someone please seriously explain to me what (bj=F6rk,) chantal
>goya, france gall, henri salvador, ... and the names dropping of two
>dozen middle- to sub-par french speaking bands / singers, have to do
>with anything?
>
>
>
>-


--
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: the business end
Date: 05 Feb 2002 10:11:31 -0800

while we're on the subject of the business end, can somebody answer me
this: guys like braxton and lacy especially, but anybody who records for
small labels -- are they making any money off those records? did lacy or
david murray make "much" money when they were recording four or six or 10
CDs a year? or is it purely an artistic endeavor to record a Cd that sells,
presumably, a few thousand?


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: New Otomo Yoshihide?
Date: 05 Feb 2002 10:46:49 -0800


On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 13:21:16 -0000  "Witkowski, Marcin" wrote:
>
> Dear all
>
> Anybody got the idea what is it?
>
> YOSHIHIDE, OTOMO (FEAT. SHIMADA MASAHIKO): MIRA NI NARUMAD
> Label: CHARIZMA

Could it be a European pressing of:


*** - MIIRA NI NARUMADE (MY DEAR MUMMY): Shimada Masahiko, Otomo Yoshihide

    Recorded at GOK Sound, Tokyo on June 23, 1996
    Produced by Noda Shigenori

  Otomo Yoshihide: conductor; Harada Takashi: ondes Martenot; Ishikawa Ko:
  sho; Nakamura Hitomi: hichiriki; Hirai Yuko: ryuteki, Koma-fue; Uchihashi
  Kazuhisa: electric guitar, effects; Kikuchi Masaaki: doublebass, electro-
  nics; Takara Kumiko: percussion; Era Mari: percussion; Sano Shiro: reading;
  Shimada Masahiko: reading; sampled guest: Derek Bailey (guitars).

    1997 - Sank-Ohso Discs/Creativeman Disc/Uplink (Japan), CMDD-00034
    (CD-Book)


    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: the business end
Date: 05 Feb 2002 10:52:31 -0800


On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 10:11:31 -0800  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> while we're on the subject of the business end, can somebody answer me
> this: guys like braxton and lacy especially, but anybody who records for
> small labels -- are they making any money off those records? did lacy or
> david murray make "much" money when they were recording four or six or 10
> CDs a year? or is it purely an artistic endeavor to record a Cd that sells,
> presumably, a few thousand?

Can't talk for Braxton, but Lacy expects some money in advance. Even with the
infamous BYG records from the late sixties, Lacy got paid, but only once (and
I guess it was not a lot). Is he making money with these records? A quick
evaluation of the number of records he put out in the past years multiplied
by the money he received for them (guess), that will add up to a nice number
for pocket money, but not enough to sustain a living.

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjorkasaurus
Date: 05 Feb 2002 12:56:00 -0600

Skip Heller([e-mail])@Mon, Feb 04, 2002 at 06:08:07PM -0800:
> They're one of the few that's been allowed to keep their big name acts after
> hooking up with a major.  Whoever drafted their aggreement was very crafty.

Well it also seems that artists just seem to enjoy staying with them. Anyone
got a contact in Matador A&R? ;)

m
http://craque.net


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Axis of Evil
Date: 05 Feb 2002 21:04:27 +0100

Il s'agit d'un message multivolet au format MIME.
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Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [fr] (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-Accept-Language: fr
MIME-Version: 1.0
     "[e-mail]" <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit




>
>
> Can someone please seriously explain to me what (bj÷rk,) chantal goya,
> france gall, henri salvador, ... and the names dropping of two dozen
> middle- to sub-par french speaking bands / singers, have to do with anything?

I just know they have every little thing to do with Iannis Xenakis, gangsta rap,
Indian Carnatic music, Cecil Taylor, hillbilly, Weather Report, Orson Welles,
Jewish and Hutu Radical cultures, and above all, The Axis of Evil.

DY.


>
>
> -


--------------C20E1AF3ABA219806FCA1B03--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Artur Nowak" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Naked City live on DVD...
Date: 05 Feb 2002 21:30:17 +0100

...but only one track! I just bought a DVD called "The Jazz Club Highlights
1990" (sic!) TDK Recording Media Europe S.A (c) 2001. The Naked City track
is very slow, I can't recognise it, although I'm pretty familiar with their
live repertoire. It's called "Mystery Song" but I'm sure it's not the real
title, the producer probably coundn't recognise the title either. Apart from
NC you can see Steps Ahead, Archie Shepp, Mike Stern, Petrucciani... It was
recorded during "Haus Jazz Tage, Ostern 1990". Look at some screenshots at
http://www.emd.pl/emd/pl4/artists/n/naked_city/photos.htm

    __________________________________________________________________
    Artur Nowak [arno at emd dot pl] muzyka.emd.pl


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mark Saleski <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Frisell Sells Out
Date: 05 Feb 2002 16:00:16 -0500


--------------070204020402000608020100
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Skip Heller:
>I knew the guy (he died) who was doing what ECM publicity he could while at
>Warners.  If his words are to be taken as true, anything at all would be a
>big improvement.


it bet they were. i seem to remember reading some interview with metheny
(who i think had a pretty big falling out with eicher) where he
basically said that ecm runs a very cheap operation despite their
outward "image" (glossy album cover art).

--
Mark Saleski - [e-mail] | http://www.foliage.com/~marks
"Music is spiritual. The music business is not." - Van Morrison


--------------070204020402000608020100
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
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<html>
<head>
</head>
<body>
<pre wrap=""><!---->Skip Heller:<br>>I knew the guy (he died) who was doing what ECM publicity he could while at
>Warners.  If his words are to be taken as true, anything at all would be a
>big improvement.

</pre>
it bet they were. i seem to remember reading some interview with metheny
(who i think had a pretty big falling out with eicher) where he basically
said that ecm runs a very cheap operation despite their outward "image" (glossy
album cover art).<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="$mailwrapcol">--
Mark Saleski - <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</a> | <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.foliage.com/~marks">http://www.foliage.com/~marks</a>
"Music is spiritual. The music business is not." - Van Morrison</pre>
</body>
</html>

--------------070204020402000608020100--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: French pock/rop
Date: 05 Feb 2002 22:15:44 +0100



Patrick Carey a =E9crit :

> Following up, little comments here and there =2E=2E=2E
>
> * duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo=2Efr>
> >Of the classic 60's chanson singer/songwriter generation, there's
> >Jacques Brel and Barbara, on a par in their domain with Dylan or
> >Joni Mitchell in theirs (Georges Brassens and L=3DE9o Ferr=3DE9 deserve
> >mention as well=3D2E)
>
> I enjoy both Brel & Barbara, but still need to explore their work
> in more depth=2E  Who would you compare Brassens and Ferr=3DE9 to,
> if you had to? :)

Brassens is a very fine poet/songwriter, with cleverly woven medieval and
mythological references (if you understand french)=2E
His own singing and guitar playing, though, are a bit monotonous and gruffy,
though, imho=2E
Barbara spent years singing his songs (and Brel's) before she found her own
songwriting voice, and the Philips/Polygram Vol=2E2 (1960/61/62) "Barbara ch=
ante
Brassens et Brel" fully documents this=2E Her interpretations of Brassens ar=
e
superb, she totally fulfills his songs' melifluent potential (her "Penelope"
is bliss)=2E
This just to suggest you might want to kill 2 birds with 1 stone by getting
this cd: as an intro to the world of Brassens, with great Barbara singing=2E

Leo Ferre is also a very fine poet/songwriter, more combatively anarchist in
his texts, emotional in his singing=2E His voice has a vulnerable quality,
reminiscent in some ways of Willie Nelson's or Neil Young's=2E His most famo=
us
song "Avec le temps" is intense and beautiful but not recommended for the
depressive=2E
I don't happen to know of the right cd to recommend, but his 60's work
(including the aforementioned song) is generally considered classic (I don't
think you can go wrong there or with a "best of"-type cd either)=2E

> >I have a weakness for singer Patricia Kaas, her low raspy voice
> >coupled with some of the more-than-decent blues-rock songs written
> >for her in the late 80's/early 90's made her, at least for a while,
> >a credible French pop star=2E
>
> I have heard some Kass as well, that I liked, but not all=2E  Would
> you recommend any album(s) in particular?  I assume her recent
> stuff is no longer of interest?

She has a greatest hits cd out right now (on Universal, I believe) that shou=
ld
be no problem getting anywhere=2E
The 1994 live cd "Tour de Charme" has most of her best songs and gives a ver=
y
good overview=2E
The song "Je te dis vous" on it drives me wild (it's not that well known) (t=
he
album by that title also has a great studio version)=2E
Since the early-mid 90's nothing essential=2E
She's the star of an upcoming film by Claude Lelouch, her first: "And now,
ladies and gentlemen", with Jeremy Irons, where she's a cabaret singer=2E

> =2E  I personally think
> French is a great language to rhyme/flow in (very smooth),

Definitely, but US-driven pop has desensitized most guys and girls from the
power of their own language=2E

>
> >Bj=F6rk's ears will never be in the same league as Gainsbourg's
> >(without very costly plastic surgery, that is) !!
>
> Ha!!  Serge's ears on her and a collage cover like "Vu de l'ext=E9rieur"
> would be amusing =2E=2E=2E "Bj=F6rk sings Gainsbourg", which I don't think
> I'd want, even though I enjoy Bj=F6rk=2E

Would'nt be any more bizzare than Jane Birkin!

Best,
DY=2E

>
>
> -


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Naked City live on DVD
Date: 05 Feb 2002 16:19:00 EST

First of all, I was wondering if anyone knew where to get this live DVD or
any other live Naked City performances (DVD or VHS).  Second (and a trivial
matter I might add) is that I first saw John Zorn live about 2 years ago.  He
was wearing camouflage pants.  In the next 8 or so times I saw him, he had
the same pants on.  About a year ago, I saw a picture of him in the NY Times
and he had the pants on again.  I just looked at the pics on the website
recommended of the Naked City live from 1990.  Guess what?  He is wearing the
pants.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: French pock/rop
Date: 05 Feb 2002 13:25:29 -0800


    Great list of recommendation from Duncan.

On Tue, 05 Feb 2002 22:15:44 +0100  duncan youngerman wrote:
>
> > I enjoy both Brel & Barbara, but still need to explore their work
> > in more depth.  Who would you compare Brassens and Ferr=E9 to,
> > if you had to? :)
>
> Brassens is a very fine poet/songwriter, with cleverly woven medieval and
> mythological references (if you understand french).
> His own singing and guitar playing, though, are a bit monotonous and gruffy,
> though, imho.

Brassens appears to me like a product that would suffer export. The emphasis
on texts is really strong with him and because of the total lack of flashiness
in the music (usually acoustic guitar and stand up bass) I am not too sure how
people who don't understand him would react (in fact I know a little bit
because I sneaked some of his songs on tapes, and nobody really paid atten-
tion).

> Leo Ferre is also a very fine poet/songwriter, more combatively anarchist in
> his texts, emotional in his singing. His voice has a vulnerable quality,
> reminiscent in some ways of Willie Nelson's or Neil Young's. His most famous
> song "Avec le temps" is intense and beautiful but not recommended for the
> depressive.

Ferre's delivery is so strong that I can imagine liking him without under-
standing him. In fact, Ferre even had a record in the late sixties with a
rock band (Zao?).

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Naked City live on DVD
Date: 05 Feb 2002 13:29:30 -0800


On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 16:19:00 EST  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> First of all, I was wondering if anyone knew where to get this live DVD or
> any other live Naked City performances (DVD or VHS).  Second (and a trivial
> matter I might add) is that I first saw John Zorn live about 2 years ago.  He
> was wearing camouflage pants.  In the next 8 or so times I saw him, he had
> the same pants on.  About a year ago, I saw a picture of him in the NY Times
> and he had the pants on again.  I just looked at the pics on the website
> recommended of the Naked City live from 1990.  Guess what?  He is wearing the
> pants.

He has two pairs of these pants. Basically it works like that: when he is
wearing pair A, pair B is usually at the dry cleaner on E. 7th St. I did not
verify but according to some rumours, the same seems to apply when he is
wearing pair B (read: pair A is at the dry cleaner). Unfortunately I have not
been able to gather the same level of information concerning the T-shirts.

    Patrice (always eager to help).


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Chris Selvig <[e-mail]>
Subject: Independent Groups
Date: 05 Feb 2002 13:47:07 -0800

Zach,
   Accessibility is another of those nebulous qualities, y'know.  I'll
probably get in trouble for saying this, but I wouldn't worry too much
about accessibility - if you can afford to book someone you really believe
in, go for it.  If the Phish fans on campus are mad that you brought some
wailing free-jazz group, they can get it together and bring Phish
themselves.  When I was in college, I was more interested in noise-rock,
but we managed to get some great bands (Cows, Doo Rag) out to isolated
Santa Fe.  Sure, there were only a few Cows fans on campus, but we raised
the money and booked the bands and there was nothing stopping others from
doing the same; they just didn't care enough to do it.
   You might see if Matt W from Colorado College will correspond with you
about this, since he seems to be connected with CC's recent parade of
world-class improvisors.  There are a few organizations in the Bay Area
that put on lots of experimental/improv concerts, and I'd imagine they'd be
happy to give you some tips.  TUVA Space may be reached at
[e-mail], and the Luggage Store Gallery's concert series is run by
Ernesto Diaz-Infante, I think, [e-mail].
   Good luck!

Chris Selvig


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: alasnoaxis
Date: 05 Feb 2002 16:39:07 -0500

on 02.02.05 10:42 AM, Tom Benton at [e-mail] wrote:

> when both Black and Chris Speed were asked "Who is one person you are
> still looking forward to playing with and why?" (in interviews at
> allaboutjazz.com), they both answered to the effect of: "Bjork.  Do I need
> a reason?"

Yeah! So there yuo naysayers! You weiners! Yeah!!!

Take that!
RL
----------
[  All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k  ]

Sessionographies :
CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.

Discographies :
COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN.

Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag;
ETC.,
----------
*** THINGS 4 SALE ***  [Updated: 01.12.01]
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/ChipsInCashing.html




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tom Benton <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: alasnoaxis
Date: 05 Feb 2002 15:56:30 -0600 (CST)

On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Rick Lopez wrote:

> > when both Black and Chris Speed were asked "Who is one person you are
> > still looking forward to playing with and why?" (in interviews at
> > allaboutjazz.com), they both answered to the effect of: "Bjork.  Do I need
> > a reason?"
>
> Yeah! So there yuo naysayers! You weiners! Yeah!!!
>
> Take that!
> RL

Since my sarcasm detector is low on batteries today, I'm going to go ahead
and say that it was not my intention to imply that the opinions of Black
and/or Speed should warrant Bjork some reconsideration from any members of
this esteemed list (hell, Zorn probably *loves* the Shaggs, which doesn't
mean I wouldn't still blast each and every one of their CDs into space
given the opportunity).  Rather, as I put it in a private email to Ken
Waxman, it should give the fans in the house a great Bjork album to ponder.
That is all.

So, um, how about that Buckethead, eh?


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: alasnoaxis
Date: 05 Feb 2002 17:16:54 -0500

on 02.02.05 4:56 PM, Tom Benton at [e-mail] wrote:

> On Tue, 5 Feb 2002, Rick Lopez wrote:
>
>>> when both Black and Chris Speed were asked "Who is one person you are
>>> still looking forward to playing with and why?" (in interviews at
>>> allaboutjazz.com), they both answered to the effect of: "Bjork.  Do I need
>>> a reason?"
>>
>> Yeah! So there yuo naysayers! You weiners! Yeah!!!
>>
>> Take that!
>> RL
>
> Since my sarcasm detector is low on batteries today, I'm going to go ahead
> and say that it was not my intention to imply that the opinions of Black
> and/or Speed should warrant Bjork some reconsideration from any members of
> this esteemed list (hell, Zorn probably *loves* the Shaggs, which doesn't
> mean I wouldn't still blast each and every one of their CDs into space
> given the opportunity).  Rather, as I put it in a private email to Ken
> Waxman, it should give the fans in the house a great Bjork album to ponder.
> That is all.

And I apologize, as I am medicated today (some very pleasant pain pills) and
should probably keep my childish mitts off the keyboard when I'm feeling
this giddy.

My reply wasn't immature or anything, *was* it???

slinking away,
RL
----------
[  All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k  ]

Sessionographies :
CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.

Discographies :
COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN.

Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag;
ETC.,
----------
*** THINGS 4 SALE ***  [Updated: 01.12.01]
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/ChipsInCashing.html




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:  Naked City live on DVD
Date: 05 Feb 2002 17:20:41 EST


In a message dated 2/5/02 3:19:48 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< First of all, I was wondering if anyone knew where to get this live DVD or
any other live Naked City performances (DVD or VHS).  Second (and a trivial
matter I might add) is that I first saw John Zorn live about 2 years ago.  He
was wearing camouflage pants.  In the next 8 or so times I saw him, he had
the same pants on.  About a year ago, I saw a picture of him in the NY Times
and he had the pants on again.  I just looked at the pics on the website
recommended of the Naked City live from 1990.  Guess what?  He is wearing the
pants.   >>

I saw him a year ago and he was wearing red camoflage pants that clashed
brilliantly with his bright orange polo shirt.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: alasnoaxis
Date: 05 Feb 2002 14:21:44 -0800


On Tue, 5 Feb 2002 15:56:30 -0600 (CST)  Tom Benton wrote:
>
> So, um, how about that Buckethead, eh?

Based on my experience of three shows with his projects five years ago, I
think it was the most self-indulgent crap I have ever seen in my whole life.
I could not believe how bad it was and that's why I tried him again (convinced
that it could only be the result of a bad night). Never the expression "tech-
nical masturbation" had found such a perfect case to illustrate it. There was
no music, no feeling, just a set of songs built the same (totally uninspired),
with in the middle Buckethead throwing the most ackneyed cliches of speed
metal guitar playing. How can somebody with such technical skills can be so
empty might be an interesting topic for a PhD.

On the other side, I kind of like him in contexts where he is a guest (like
with Laswell, of a great Painkiller show at the KF).

    Patrice.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: French pock/rop
Date: 05 Feb 2002 23:43:45 +0100



"Patrice L=2E Roussel" a =E9crit :

>
> Brassens appears to me like a product that would suffer export=2E

Impossible to export=2E

>
> Ferre's delivery is so strong that I can imagine liking him without under-
> standing him=2E In fact, Ferre even had a record in the late sixties with =
a
> rock band (Zao?)=2E

Zoo, in 70, I think=2E An album called "Amour/Anarchie" or something close (=
never
heard it but should be interesting)=2E

DY=2E

>
>
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Chris Selvig <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Tori Amos, indeed
Date: 05 Feb 2002 14:54:31 -0800

I'm not even 30 and I'm an old-timer already... sweet!  I was just curious
about concrete examples because you sound like you're coming from more of a
jazz/improv/experimental direction, and while I find it easy to think of
rock ripoffs, it's a little tougher with the Highbrow Stuff.  A case could
be made for some early Ayler stuff, like "Witches and Devils," standing way
back in Ornette's shadow.  But he moved on to other things, some better,
some worse.

At 12:21 AM 2/5/02 -0500, Zachary Steiner wrote:
>    Can you give an example or two of bands you think are egregious
>rip-offs?
>
>I can't give you any concrete examples of rip-offs, but the idea bothers
>me.  I think the main reason that I'm straying away from concrete
>answers is because of the ambiguity of the lines between
>homage/influence and rip-offs.  Here, yet again, my theory gets me in
>trouble because I'm too ignorant to produce a concrete example... Oh how
>I yearn for wisdom, old-timers show me the way :)
>
>Zach

Chris Selvig


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re: Bjorkasaurus
Date: 05 Feb 2002 15:41:44 -0500

And unfortunately, Nonesuch's planned recording of Schoenberg's Pierrot Lunaire with her a few years ago fell by the wayside somewhere, as did a planned jazz disc for Bar/None which would have included Lake and other heavies.

I'm not making any of that stuff up, either.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Ruth Crawford Seeger, Prelude No. 5, Jenny Lin (Bis)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re: alasnoaxis
Date: 05 Feb 2002 18:43:33 -0500

Patrice sed:

>On the other side, I kind of like him in contexts where he is a guest (like
>with Laswell, of a great Painkiller show at the KF).


Was that the show where part of his solo was sticking the end of the guitar chord in his mouth? The one where Mick Harris tried to get Lee Dorrian to come up out of the audience and join them \\\"for old times\\\' sake,\\\" to no avail?

LASWELL: [deadpan] So much for old times\\\' sake.

That wuz awesome.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Leos Janacek, \\\'Moravian Folk Poetry\\\' - Magdalena Kozena (Deutsche Grammophon)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re: Naked City live on DVD
Date: 05 Feb 2002 18:47:39 -0500

The really convenient thing is that by the time Zorn's ready to do laundry, the pants walk themselves to the cleaners... ;-P

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Leos Janacek, 'Moravian Folk Poetry' - Magdalena Kozena (Deutsche Grammophon)

P.S. I once saw Zorn wearing those camos at the New York Philharmonic for the world premiere of his latest orchestral work...

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jeni Dahmus" <[e-mail]>
Subject: stylish Zorn
Date: 05 Feb 2002 19:11:05 -0500

Zorn also mismatches his socks and often wears Mr. Bungle t-shirts...

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Re: OT: saul williams / www.massmag.com
Date: 05 Feb 2002 07:57:05 -0500

>>I don't find anything "trite" or "silly" about him.
>>And ... "recycled jibberish"?

* "carlos torres" <[e-mail]>
>as in..his flow, its all been done before, nothing new..or of any interest.

Right, so I didn't _need_ to bring this up again, but you cut off
the rest of my reply (above), and changed what you initially said ;-),
which was:

"his * beats * are recycled jibberish at high volume"

to which I replied:

"And ... "recycled jibberish"?  How can (drum) beats (played by a real,
live drummer) be "jibberish"?"

Now you say it's his flow?  If you were referring to his lyrics/poetry
in the first place, that's fine (again, to each his own), but you
said _beats_, and I couldn't (and still can't) understand how _beats_
can be jibberish.  Recycled, perhaps, but ...  He does use a live drummer
so there is a heck of a lot more variety (than a lot of hip hop shows)
when he plays live ...

>i dont mean to be harsh, like you said, to each his own..i just didnt
>enjoy it when i heard it..

Fair enough.  You just really confused me with the above.

>just wondering what other people think..perhaps i should give it
>another shot...or not.

I'd say, yes, but honestly, if you felt it had all been done before
(and what hasn't?), why waste your time. ;)


* "Andrew" <[e-mail]>:
>I write for an online webzine that covers Hip hop, literature, film,
>cultural commentary, industrial design, etc... I really love the mag.
>Check us out at www.massmag.com , and read my reviews of the recent
>Saul Williams and David Axelrod records.

Will check it out.  Thanks!


-Patrick







-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: hip-hop redux
Date: 05 Feb 2002 19:35:15 -0500

> I dl'ed a number of hip-hop tracks recently, many from the recent
'deranged
> rap' discussion.  I've certainly seen Cannibal Ox's THE COLD VEIN tossed
> around on year-end lists all over the place, but I gotta admit, every
single
> thing I've heard (~3-4 tracks from each) from the Cannibal Ox, Company
Flow,
> Anti-Pop Consortium crowd leaves me dead cold.  I get no audio enjoyment
out
> of it at all, and I'm wondering whether I'm missing something.  I guess
I'm
> not MC-centric, which this stuff seems to be, with the lo-fi, gloomy urban
> backgrounds, and to my ears, largely NOT rhythmically-related raps
> dominating the whole thing.

I think we're definitely starting to see bona-fied sub-genres in the indie
hip hop community.....we're just not sure what to call those. Cannibal Ox,
Anti-Pop, some of the Anticon stuff, etc. are definitely on the more
"experimental" side of the genre. I just love the Cannibal Ox record as a
whole- if anything, check out the songs "Pigeon", "Phoenix", "Iron Galaxy",
"Raspberry Fields" - those are the ones that just turn my crank. I like the
can-ox are pretty much the polar opposite of "fun" and "funky"- the
machine-drone beats and free-form MC'ing just does it for me.


> I'm guessing the first group of stuff is just not my bag, sonically, but
I'm
> checking whether that "makes sense" to those familiar with all of the
> above - do you hear a distinction between those groups?  It seems one key
> difference for me is that the group I like always seem to be "in the
> pocket", the MCs interacting, staying with, and gleefully skipping over
the
> beats, where as Company Flow etc uses it primarily, to my ears, as sonic
> background.  To the experts, is it likely I'm missing something (am I
> "mis-hearing" it?), or does it sound like, given my preferences, more
> listening to the first group won't help much?

There's definitely a distinction! The Coup didn't call their record "Party
Music" for the sake of irony; while it's "politicaly charged" (well, at
least as much as Rage against the machine...bwahahhaha), it's definitely a
"hip-pop" record.




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mathieu =?iso-8859-1?Q?B=E9langer?=  <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: French pock/rop
Date: 05 Feb 2002 20:41:29 -0500

Hello,

>  > Ferre's delivery is so strong that I can imagine liking him without und=
er-
>>  standing him. In fact, Ferre even had a record in the late sixties with =
a
>>  rock band (Zao?).
>
>Zoo, in 70, I think. An album called "Amour/Anarchie" or something
>close (never heard it but should be interesting).

The band was indeed Zoo. The collaborated in the late 60s/eary 70s.
The album Ferr=E9 and Zoo did together was _La Solitude_. Zoo did
appear on two tracks of _Amour/Anarchie_: "Le Chien" and "La "the"
nana".

Tschuss,

Mathieu

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: the business end
Date: 06 Feb 2002 01:48:20 +0000

>From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>

>Can't talk for Braxton, but Lacy expects some money in advance. Even with
>the
>infamous BYG records from the late sixties, Lacy got paid, but only once
>(and
>I guess it was not a lot). Is he making money with these records?

Hmm, a few years ago Lacy's partner Irene Aebi once told me he's never been
paid for any of his recordings, but he's never been worried about getting
money from small labels, it just bothered him that Novus and HatArt weren't
forthcoming with some cash. Incidentally, the payment for recording with
Prestige Records in the '50s was $60, a bottle of booze and a hit of smack.

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: alasnoaxis
Date: 06 Feb 2002 01:50:44 +0000

>From: Tom Benton <[e-mail]>

>(hell, Zorn probably *loves* the Shaggs, which doesn't
>mean I wouldn't still blast each and every one of their CDs into space
>given the opportunity).

Hey, I thought everybody loved the Shaggs. Don't tell me you think they play
out of tune???

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ayako Chinen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fujii/ Feldman/ February
Date: 06 Feb 2002 10:52:07 +0900

It is the same April Shower released from EWE in 2001.  AMAIK, EWE is more
or less a "domestic" label without particular distributors/agents outside of
Japan, so April Shower is re-released from BUZZ to reach the international
listeners/market.  It is a must CD, and we've been playing it on and off
quite often.  Fluid and passionate.

The itinerary for the US tour is as follows (from Satoko's HP @
http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~Libra/ ).  The quartet is the one on Vulcan,
Fujii piano, Natsuki Tamura on trumpet, Takeharu Hayakawa on bass, and
Tatsuya Yoshida on drums.

Satoko Fujii Quartet US Tour
April 20    Boston
April 21    Portland, Main
April 23    Tonic, NYC
April 26    Pittsburgh
April 27    Painted Bride Art Center, Philadelphia
April 29    MAC Dallas, Texas
April 30    Austin, Texas
May 1       Houston
May 3       Spruce street forum, San Diego
May 4       Rocco, Hollywood
May 6       Portland, Oregon
May 7       Seattle

Duo with Yoshida.
May 18  Victoriaville Festival, Canada


Aya Chinen


Alan Lankin wrote

>
> There's a release scheduled in the U.S. next week:
>
> - Satoko Fujii with Mark Feldman - April Shower (Buzz) Feb 5
>
> Has anyone heard this?
>
> Fujii will be performing at the Painted Bride in Philadelphia in April.
>
>
> Alan Lankin
>
> --
> Jazzmatazz
> http://jazzmatazz.home.att.net
> [e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re: hip-hop redux
Date: 05 Feb 2002 21:18:48 -0500

Yet another coincidence during this ongoing thread... I went over to Other Music tonight at about 7:30 to pick up an Aesop Rock CD just to see what all the fuss is about. There's a line out the door and halfway around the block, and it quickly becomes clear that they're trying to hustle people out of the store, while setting up a P.A. and some turntables.

Turned out to be a free live in-store by Aesop Rock, approaching at 8pm.

Sadly, I couldn't stay, so I purchased his new EP 'Daylight' and the cLOUDDEAD CD and the new issue of The Wire, and moseyed back to the office. Weird, huh?

Oh, I liked the CD.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - tedious, lengthy blank space prior to the hidden track on 'Daylight,' I assume... oh, wait, was that a spoiler?

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
Date: 05 Feb 2002 19:05:57 -0800



> From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>

> Reading my statement above I realize that it could be misunderstood. By "not
> buying it anymore", I meant the argument that Skip was pushing (people being
> clueless, illustrated by the Mark Twain quote).

I was not referring to people being stupid, but rather that the powers that
be intentionally keep them from knowing what goes on behind the doors closed
to those without money or power.  I wonder what makes you think I hate
people so much.

skip h



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: the business end
Date: 05 Feb 2002 19:08:18 -0800



> From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 10:52:31 -0800
> To: [e-mail]
> Cc: [e-mail], [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: the business end
>
> Can't talk for Braxton, but Lacy expects some money in advance. Even with the
> infamous BYG records from the late sixties, Lacy got paid, but only once (and
> I guess it was not a lot). Is he making money with these records? A quick
> evaluation of the number of records he put out in the past years multiplied
> by the money he received for them (guess), that will add up to a nice number
> for pocket money, but not enough to sustain a living.
>
> Patrice.

Most guys get paid up front with the promise of royalties.  Frankly, you're
better taking a royalty advance in product, so you can sell the stuff at
gigs (which is your only total assurance that you'll see any money from
records).

This procedure, BTW, has kept many bands fr having to sleep in their vans on
the road.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Re: (recent) French pop/rock
Date: 05 Feb 2002 22:37:35 -0500

>Katerine, Helena (Noguerra), Fran=E7oiz Breut, Dominique A, Autour de
>Lucie, Yann Tiersen, Keren Ann, Benjamin Biolay, Coralie Cl=E9ment,
>Natacha Tertone, Jorane, Sophie-Meriem Rockwell, J=E9r=F4me Mini=E8re =
etc.

* Mathieu B=E9langer <[e-mail]>:
>Just want to point out that Jorane is from Quebec (can't remember
>the exact town though) and J=E9r=F4me Mini=E8re has been living in Que=
bec
>- Montreal to be exact - for the past few years.

Hi Mathieu,

Yes, I know.  I wasn't limiting my choices to just those from
France. ;-)  I think Jorane is from Qu=E9bec City, or maybe
somewhere near there ... or in the east? (I can't remember
right now either)  I had heard that J=E9r=F4me was in Montr=E9al
since some of his last album was recorded/mixed there.


-Patrick



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Nirav Soni" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: alasnoaxis
Date: 05 Feb 2002 22:44:28 -0500

> Hey, I thought everybody loved the Shaggs. Don't tell me you think they
play
> out of tune???

I love the Shaggs. And, so do a bunch of other people (at least enough to
cover their songs):

from the Animal World Recordings homepage: http://www.awr.f2s.com/

 awr016 - "Better than the Beatles": a Tribute to the Shaggs CD ONLY
$9.99ppd
available later in the year 2001
Volume One in Animal World's tribute series which aims to give more exposure
to groups from the 60s/70s/80s that we like and wish more people liked. The
Shaggs tops our list in this category, making them the subject of our first
tribute CD. The idea of covering a Shaggs song seems mind-boggling, near
impossible to some, which makes the idea of a full Shaggs tribute album that
much more fun. The line-up on this one is amazing, with Shaggs cover songs
performed by: Ida, Optiganally Yours, Thinking Fellers Union Local 282, the
Double U, R. Stevie Moore, Deerhoof, Mongrell, Bauer, Joost Visser, Plastic
Mastery, Danielson Famile, and the Furtips. Liner notes by R. Stevie Moore
(one of the earliest Shaggs fans) and Irwin Chusid, WFMU DJ and author of
the book Songs in the Key of Z.

And, speaking of outsider music, has anyone else really latched onto that
Langley Schools Music Project cd? Our man zorn has a quote in it, "This is
beauty. This is truth. This is music that touches the heart in a way no
other music ever has, or ever could." --John.Zorn" And he's totally on the
mark. Their version of "In My Room" brings me to my knees everytime I hear
it. Better than apple cider to warm yr heart.

Nirav
--
OnNow- AMM- Before Driving to the Chapel....
NR- _In Watermelon Sugar_- Richard Brautigan
AIM: Icefactory37
"Duration is to the consciousness as light is to the eye" - Bill Viola


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: the business end -- or how small potatoes can be a banquet
Date: 05 Feb 2002 20:58:47 -0800

as someone who actually has made a huge chunk of his living in the indie
record industry, I can tell you some ways you get paid without actually
collecting a royalty for record sales:

collecting publishing royalties.  Recording artists have to wait until the
label has made back their initial investment.  Songwriters do not.  They get
paid from the first copy sold.  This is the most relaible way to get paid,
BTW, because no label wants BMI or ASCAP auditing their books.

Broadcast royalties, which are paid to the publisher and not the label.  It
helps to be your own publisher, because you get all the money instead of
half of it.  And it only costs about $100 (American) to be your own
publisher.

taking a big advance in the form of product (I covered that already)

cash on the barrelhead for being the producer, plus taking a three point
royalty on all monies generated by that recording (ie film/TV usage,
downloads) exclusive from actual disc/record sales.  This means that a
percentage of the fee paid by a movie guy to use that tune goes into my
pocket, whether or not the label has recouped costs yet.  I put this into
all my contracts.

Owning your own masters doesn't hurt, because people who own their own music
get paid for any aspect of its use.  You can't do this when you're being
commissioned to do a score for a movie or cartoon for a big company (theypay
well and they own what they pay for), but -- and this is a big BUT -- indie
film companies who don't get big theatrical releases but do wangle
cable/broadcast showings usually license huge amounts of music from small
sources like me and my friends, and twenty showings of that film on cable do
indeed add up on your publishing statement.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: alasnoaxis
Date: 05 Feb 2002 21:01:44 -0800



> From: "Nirav Soni" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 22:44:28 -0500
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: alasnoaxis
>
>> Hey, I thought everybody loved the Shaggs. Don't tell me you think they play
>> out of tune???

The Shaggs have their own notes, structures, and everything else.  The first
time I heard them, I knew I was hearing some music that I could only hear
from them.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: the business end
Date: 05 Feb 2002 21:36:23 -0800


Wow!  No wonder why I like Prestige Recordings!  But seriously it's
kind of sad.   For the last 7 months I have become a huge fan of the
50's recordings.  With respect to the payment are we talking about
the sidemen on the dates?  For instince was Miles paid the same
amount or Monk?

>Incidentally, the payment for recording with Prestige Records in the
>'50s was $60, a bottle of booze and a hit of smack.
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
>
>-


--
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: the business end
Date: 06 Feb 2002 01:00:29 -0500

Wasn't Dolphy clean?  I thought he didn't do drugs or drink.  Am I wrong
this?  So did he only get $60 and miss out on the good night?

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "carlos torres" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: OT: saul williams / www.massmag.com
Date: 05 Feb 2002 22:38:17 -0800

>Right, so I didn't _need_ to bring this up again, but you cut off
>the rest of my reply (above), and changed what you initially said ;-),
>which was:


maybe your just arent hip wid my lingo....(theres a ";-)" for ya...).

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Re: French pock/rop
Date: 06 Feb 2002 01:44:11 -0500

* Tosh <[e-mail]>:
>I am a huge Godard fan, so I am dying to hear Chantal Goya.

Hey-hey!  "Masculin-f=E9minin" is a great one, non? ;)

>Sadly I saw one of her albums (an early hits collection)
>on my travels, but foolishly I didn't purchase it.

The one to get, IMO, is "Les Annees 60" on the French Magic label.
Here's a summary from Other Music (I think):

" Goya's most famous turn came in Jean-Luc Godard's 1966 film
"Masculin Feminin", where she portrayed Madeleine, an aspiring
pop star. This collection includes six songs from that film plus
six 7-inch releases between 1964 and 1967, 20 songs total. Her
best work is post-1965, where the arrangements start edging
towards the baroque end of the pop spectrum. Goya's voice is
lilting and guileless, as if she was Francoise Hardy's untrained
kid sister. "

>France Gall is pure great pop trash!  I don't know her recent work,
>but I do have a best of France Gall album and it's great.

The albums I enjoy most are "Baby Pop" (1966, with songs from Serge
and Andre Popp, and the wonderful Alain Goraguer and his orchestra;
Goraguer's music for "La Plan=E8te Sauvage" and his work on early
Gainsbourg LPs is great!), and "1968", her psychedelic LP (!), with
even more tunes from Gainsbourg, Goraguer, Dassin et al.  I would
avoid anything from the 70's onward.  Pre-1966 she's a little bit
too pre-teen ... ;-b


-Patrick


NP: Nara Le=E3o - "Dez Anos Depois"



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Re: French pock/rop
Date: 06 Feb 2002 01:44:14 -0500

Thanks Duncan & Patrice ... for the Brassens, Ferr=E9 and Kaas
recommendations/comments. :)

[Patricia Kaas]
>She's the star of an upcoming film by Claude Lelouch, her first:
>"And now, ladies and gentlemen", with Jeremy Irons, where she's
>a cabaret singer.

Interesting ... and Lelouch no less.  Will have to read more.

>>I personally think French is a great language to rhyme/flow in
>>(very smooth),

>Definitely, but US-driven pop has desensitized most guys and girls
>from the power of their own language.

Sad, but true.

>>"Bj=F6rk sings Gainsbourg", which I don't think I'd want,
>>even though I enjoy Bj=F6rk.

>Would'nt be any more bizzare than Jane Birkin!

Well ... at least _a little_ more bizzare. :)


-Patrick



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Independent Groups
Date: 06 Feb 2002 01:17:10 -0700




I have been 'connected' with the recent improv shows and with the previous
Le Quan Ninh show, Tim Berne Paraphrase show, the AMM concert and the Cecil
Taylor solo gig last fall.

It's been a nice couple of years in C.Springs and I just saw Keith Rowe solo
tonight.  (Can you make a second T-shirt for me Scott?)

Accessibility -- well, I just had the experience of having a "20th century"
composer trash the Mueller/Sugimoto duo (which he didn't attend) because his
freshman class didn't enjoy it.  Fortunately, the mission statement of the
committee I've been dealing with is to bring challenging artistic
performers, NOT entertainers, and I've been blowing the dust off that
manifesto.  This - conservative - "new" composer wanted to assert that
because people left the event it was not a "success"

The other main source of funding , and orginization (for AMM, Keith, and
Cecil) was a NEH professorship held by Philosophy prof. Jonathan Lee.  He's
actually bringing Robert Ashley later this spring.  Great guy.  I actually
helped only a bit on these whereas I orginized Mueller/Sugimoto, Tim Berne,
and Le Quan Ninh....oh, and bear in mind....I DON'T know what I'm doing.
I'm just a kid, not a 'professional'....

I'll second Chris's emotion -- back things you believe in.  College's have
money....you just have to care what they spend it on because really most
students don't.  They don't even know that they can influence things.

as for mid west acts...J.A. Deane lives in New Mexico....Jack Wright lives
in Boulder CO.  I don't know about expense but....anyway Vandermark might
not be as expensive as you think or as colleges are able to give.  This
school payed $10,000 for a Dick Hyman (yes that's his name) solo concert.
(He was involved in the sdtk for Woody Allen's RADIODAYS -- I think....)

anyway -- Zack, please contact me off list if you think I can be of any
help...

Matt


oh, and the concerts.....I need a more well defined vocabulary of emoticons
:-)




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?US-ASCII?Q?Falcata-Galia_and_Tariff_Records?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: FW: [thewire-announcements] Diaz-Infante / Marsh L.A. gigs / Feb 9-10
Date: 06 Feb 2002 00:59:21 -0800

Folks;

This is being forwarded for the benefit of those in the Los Angeles area.
Hope to see you at Ernesto's performance.  Enjoy!

Regards,

Rudy Carrera
Falcata-Galia and Tariff Records
PO Box 134
Rialto, California 92377 USA
http://www.falcata-galia.com
http://www.tariffrecords.com


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 1:01 AM
9-10



Greetings!
Bob Marsh and I have some out-of-town performances below this weekend in
the Los Angeles area. Please feel free to pass this info to friends or
those interested in the L.A. area. Thanks! more later, Ernesto


February 9, 9pm
Salvation Theater
1519 Griffith Park Blvd
(in Silver lake at Sunset)

Ernesto Diaz-Infante, prepared guitar
Bob Marsh, cello
Chris Heenan, reeds

and

Jeremy Drake, guitar
Jeff Eliassen, trumpet
Andrew Epstein, contrabass


February 10, 9pm
The Smell
247 South Main St.
Los Angeles, CA 90012
[phone]

Bob Marsh's Illuminated Orchestra

Featuring. . .

Ernesto Diaz-Infante, guitar
Jeremy Drake, guitar
Harris Eisenstadt, percussion
Chris Heenan, reeds
Jeff Kaiser, trumpet
Ronit Kirchman, violin
Sara Schoenbeck, bassoon
Cory Wright, reeds
Hal Onserud, contrabass


About Ernesto Diaz-Infante:
http://www.paxrecordings.com/ernesto/
http://www.bayimproviser.com/ernestodiazinfante

About Bob Marsh:
http://homepage.interaccess.com/~raf/zeggz//rjm/

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[e-mail]



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Yet another tangent (marginal Zorn content)
Date: 06 Feb 2002 10:21:09 +0100


----- Original Message -----
> I know that I'm on the Zornlist so this may sound funny, but quite frankly
> if John Zorn didn't exist, well, so what?  Of the thousands of artists
that

You are IMO wrong. JZ plays the role now Miles played in the 60's an early
'70s. He organizes musicians, finds the, shows somehow the way. Many leading
musicians (see douglas and frisell, for example) have been influenced by him
very strongly. We'd have had loads of good musicians - ornette, ayler,
dolphy - had Miles not been there, but he was surely central.
FWIW, I can  hardly anyone else producieng piececes that would be comparable
in importance with godard, spillane, troture garden, or absinthe.

> have walked this planet in the history of recorded music, John Zorn is
> somehow ultra-special?  I mean, how many potential "geniuses" have we lost
> because minorities (blacks/women/etc.) were never given the opportunity?

OK, thousends of Stravinskys died in car accidents being four years old, and
99% of them where born in Bengladesh without any chance to do anything but
struggle for life. Not to mention the possibility of people like Webern or
Dolphy living longer. You can't look at it that way. There are too many
possibilities to take them into account.

Best,
Marcin


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Stephen Berman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jost on Ornette & Re:ornette
Date: 06 Feb 2002 11:12:34 +0100

"Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]> writes:

> >From: Scott Handley <[e-mail]>
>
> >I appreciate the Gebers fragments, Bill; I need to go
> >back to this book.  But since Gebers brought it up:
> >could someone please NAME SOME NAMES regarding this
> >"sterilized tone quality" of "West Coast jazz"?
>
> Fair question, Scott.  Ekkehard Jost does not say.  The statement is
> not developed.  Therefore, it's only speculation in trying to fill in
> the details.  I consider it a throw-away line--nothing to get shook up
> about.  Absent Jost himself, the aporia remains.

Jost (Ekkehard) expands on this in his 1982 book _Sozialgeschichte des
Jazz in den USA_ (Social History of Jazz in the USA), which includes a
35-page chapter on "Cool and West Coast Jazz".  He draws a clear
distinction between the former and the latter: "From a structural
perspective, Cool Jazz was rather a daring music, whose achievements
only later, with West Coast Jazz, were flattened out and degenerated
to a cliche" (here and below, my rough translation from the original
German).  (Note, however, that this book, unlike his _Free Jazz_, is
not primarily concerned with purely musical (i.e., with sonic and
structural) analysis.)

Scott Handley further writes:

> To defend Ornette Coleman at the cost of denigrating improvisors
> like Konitz, Getz, Mulligan, Baker, Warne Marsh, and any number of
> other cool improvisors---all of whom, to my mind, are associated
> with the "West Coast" sound, and all of whom have shockingly nuanced
> tonal practices in their best performances, which would seem to me
> to include almost aggressive deviations from this mythical
> norm---would seem to me to be overcompensation, at the risk of
> reducing this view of intonation to a function of race.  Not that
> race isn't a concern, but what the hell is meant by equating "West
> Coast" (say it: "white") imporvisors' tactics with "sterility"?
> Let's get specific.

Most of the musicians Scott mentions are cited by Jost in connection
with Cool Jazz.  Jost specifically singles out the groups centered
around Tristano and Gil Evans, as decisive to the development of Cool
Jazz, and attributes to both "a certain emotional reservation, which
stands in clear contrast to the extraverted, even occasionally
panic-ridden spontaneity and hectic quality of Bebop."  He calls
Tristano's _Intuition_ and _Digression_ "a short-lived extravagance of
white musicians who had temporarily freed themselves of the black
background of jazz, the blues, and the urgent rhythm of Bebop, and now
looked longingly towards the polyphonic sound worlds of the West...."
However, he also notes that the MJQ (whose music he describes as
substituting "the caution and elegance of pseudo-baroque counterpoint
for the rhythmic fever of Bop") contradicts the notion that Cool Jazz
is a "white music", and that Lester Young was the "involuntary father
figure of Cool and West Coast Jazz".  As prototypical of West Coast
Jazz Jost cites the bands of Stand Kenton and Woody Herman (he
characterizes the sax section of Herman's "Four Brothers" as the
"standardization of the instrumental sound with the goal of maximal
blending"); also the Chico Hamilton quintet.  In West Coast Jazz
"extremes were avoided; it was concerned less with exciting than with
suggesting, not with being hectic and nervous, but with being carefree
and comfortable."  He calls West Coast Jazz a "thoroughly white
stylistic domain, formed of an aesthetic oriented towards European
ideals of sound and structure, played almost exclusively by white
musicians [he counts five important black exponents] and consumed by
an overwhelmingly white public."  He argues that the rise and
(short-lived) success of West Coast Jazz was conditioned by the social
and economic development of (southern) California (in particular the
movie industry), but also speculates (and as a native Angelo I can't
resist citing this): "It is not unlikely that the mild Pacific climate
of California (in Los Angeles 325 sunny days per year) favored a
mentality in which effortless enjoyment and a preference for simple
cheerfulness developed into the dominant patterns of musical
behavior."

--Steve Berman


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jason tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: alas
Date: 06 Feb 2002 05:15:13 -0800 (PST)

from bruce at DMG

Hi Jason,
       I assume you mean the second Jim Black Alas No Axis cd, since
the first one came out last year.  We only hear about W&W release
dates 1 month in advance.  The second AlasNoAxis will be out later
this year, but no idea exactly when.  Next time I see Jim, I will ask
him.  take care, Bruce at DMG

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Emmanouil Papagiannakis <[e-mail]>
Subject: events in Lund/Kopenhagen?
Date: 06 Feb 2002 14:52:25 +0100 (MET)

I am going to be in Lund, Sweden for the next couple of weeks and I was
wondering if anyone from that region could recommend anything interesting
taking place. I guess even Kopenhagen is within reach, making it more
interesting.

Too bad I'll be missing DKV here, but I will be back in time for the
Misha Mengelberg / H. Bennink/ B. Jones/ D. Douglas concerts at the BIMhuis.
Any idea on what to expect? Similar "quiet" stuff as last year with
M.M./J. Baron/ G. Cohen or (hopefully...) something more exciting?
Of course Bennink is not Baron (I see flames coming...)!!!

Manolis

PS: after the hiphop discussions of the last weeks I (also) picked up
the cLOUDDEAD CD. Pretty good. inspired, distorted misty sound.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Alex Werner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re: Naked City live on DVD  / NY gigs
Date: 06 Feb 2002 12:19:05 +0000

Hi!

I'd like to know if there are any newspapers, fanzines or even blogs
that reviews NY gigs.

I'd like to know because Zorn is playing tomorrow at Tonic but i guess
i won't find any review here on the Zornlist. You guys (not you, Steve, you in
general) don't write too often about the gigs you go. I've never read a
word about
those shows for the Red Cross (the ones Zorn promote with Masada, Emergency),
neither the new year's eve, with the Electric Masada.

I know this great site with the pictures (www.downtownmusic.net), but the
reviews are
in russian! I can't barely speak english!   :)

So, please send me any related link if you could... Have been brownsing
through some NY newspapers,
with no sucess.

And... If you're going to Tonic tomorrow, let us know how it was, who
played etc.

Thank you very much,

Alex Werner
rio de janeiro, brazil


At 18:47 2/5/02 Tuesday, you wrote:
>The really convenient thing is that by the time Zorn's ready to do
>laundry, the pants walk themselves to the cleaners... ;-P
>
>Steve Smith
>[e-mail]
>NP - Leos Janacek, 'Moravian Folk Poetry' - Magdalena Kozena (Deutsche
>Grammophon)
>
>P.S. I once saw Zorn wearing those camos at the New York Philharmonic for
>the world premiere of his latest orchestral work...
>
>-


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: the business end
Date: 06 Feb 2002 15:09:22 +0000

>From: Tosh <[e-mail]>

  With respect to the payment are we talking about
>the sidemen on the dates?  For instince was Miles paid the same
>amount or Monk?

That would be  for just playing on the date, I believe the leader was paid
extra (maybe even double?), and then of course the cats like Miles and Monk
got an advance (not much , I think around $2000?) to sign an 'exclusive'
with the label. Apparently Blue Note paid twice as much (cashwise, they
didn't provide the substances), and the band even had the luxury of a day's
rehearsal. In the '50s Prestige was known as the junkies' label, Red Garland
was the in-house pusher...

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ricardo Jorge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: seigen ono
Date: 06 Feb 2002 15:27:56 +0000

can anyone please point me to a site with complete discography of Seigen
Ono?

np- An opctopuss on the bath tub (japaneeese noise, great)

_________________________________________________________________
Chegou o novo MSN Explorer. Instale jß. ╔ gratuito:
http://explorer.msn.com.br/.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bill Thompson, prof lo-fi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: GATES  is performing the Sat. the 16th, 8 to 9, at 33 degrees on Guadalupe Austin Tx...see you there :)
Date: 06 Feb 2002 10:10:42 -0600


.........sorry for the crossposting!............

Hi Everyone :)

I wanted to invite you to GATES' next performance (only an hour this time
:))

It's the 16th (a saturday), from 8 to 9pm at 33 degrees...at 4017 Guadalupe.
(in Austin)

Free, and we will be selling cd's etc.

We should have Guitar, Effects, a couple of Laptops, Bass, Keyboard, Violin,
and maybe oboe and turntable....

Please come and enjoy, should be quieter than our other shows at coffee
houses :)

See you there,

Thanx,

Bill Thompson


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: the business end
Date: 06 Feb 2002 11:49:33 -0500 (EST)

Tosh:

Are you asking about the $60 or the smack?

Ken Waxman
--- Tosh <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> Wow!  No wonder why I like Prestige Recordings!  But
> seriously it's
> kind of sad.   For the last 7 months I have become a
> huge fan of the
> 50's recordings.  With respect to the payment are we
> talking about
> the sidemen on the dates?  For instince was Miles
> paid the same
> amount or Monk?
>
> >Incidentally, the payment for recording with
> Prestige Records in the
> >'50s was $60, a bottle of booze and a hit of smack.


=====
Ken Waxman
[e-mail]
www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos

______________________________________________________
Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: the business end
Date: 06 Feb 2002 09:25:55 -0800

>
>That would be  for just playing on the date, I believe the leader
>was paid extra (maybe even double?), and then of course the cats
>like Miles and Monk got an advance (not much , I think around
>$2000?) to sign an 'exclusive' with the label. Apparently Blue Note
>paid twice as much (cashwise, they didn't provide the substances),
>and the band even had the luxury of a day's rehearsal. In the '50s
>Prestige was known as the junkies' label, Red Garland was the
>in-house pusher...


That's fascinating!  Is there a book that covers the Prestige years?

>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>
>-


--
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jost on Ornette & Re:ornette
Date: 06 Feb 2002 09:28:20 -0800



> From: Stephen Berman <[e-mail]>
> Date: 06 Feb 2002 11:12:34 +0100
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: Jost on Ornette & Re:ornette
>
>> Fair question, Scott.  Ekkehard Jost does not say.  The statement is
>> not developed.  Therefore, it's only speculation in trying to fill in
>> the details.  I consider it a throw-away line--nothing to get shook up
>> about.  Absent Jost himself, the aporia remains.
>
> Jost (Ekkehard) expands on this in his 1982 book _Sozialgeschichte des
> Jazz in den USA_ (Social History of Jazz in the USA), which includes a
> 35-page chapter on "Cool and West Coast Jazz".  He draws a clear
> distinction between the former and the latter: "From a structural
> perspective, Cool Jazz was rather a daring music, whose achievements
> only later, with West Coast Jazz, were flattened out and degenerated
> to a cliche" (here and below, my rough translation from the original
> German).  (Note, however, that this book, unlike his _Free Jazz_, is
> not primarily concerned with purely musical (i.e., with sonic and
> structural) analysis.)
>
> Scott Handley further writes:
>
>> To defend Ornette Coleman at the cost of denigrating improvisors
>> like Konitz, Getz, Mulligan, Baker, Warne Marsh, and any number of
>> other cool improvisors---all of whom, to my mind, are associated
>> with the "West Coast" sound, and all of whom have shockingly nuanced
>> tonal practices in their best performances, which would seem to me
>> to include almost aggressive deviations from this mythical
>> norm---would seem to me to be overcompensation, at the risk of
>> reducing this view of intonation to a function of race.  Not that
>> race isn't a concern, but what the hell is meant by equating "West
>> Coast" (say it: "white") imporvisors' tactics with "sterility"?
>> Let's get specific.
>
> Most of the musicians Scott mentions are cited by Jost in connection
> with Cool Jazz.  Jost specifically singles out the groups centered
> around Tristano and Gil Evans, as decisive to the development of Cool
> Jazz, and attributes to both "a certain emotional reservation, which
> stands in clear contrast to the extraverted, even occasionally
> panic-ridden spontaneity and hectic quality of Bebop."  He calls
> Tristano's _Intuition_ and _Digression_ "a short-lived extravagance of
> white musicians who had temporarily freed themselves of the black
> background of jazz, the blues, and the urgent rhythm of Bebop, and now
> looked longingly towards the polyphonic sound worlds of the West...."

>As prototypical of West Coast
> Jazz Jost cites the bands of Stand Kenton and Woody Herman (he
> characterizes the sax section of Herman's "Four Brothers" as the
> "standardization of the instrumental sound with the goal of maximal
> blending"); also the Chico Hamilton quintet.  In West Coast Jazz
> "extremes were avoided; it was concerned less with exciting than with
> suggesting, not with being hectic and nervous, but with being carefree
> and comfortable."  He calls West Coast Jazz a "thoroughly white
> stylistic domain, formed of an aesthetic oriented towards European
> ideals of sound and structure, played almost exclusively by white
> musicians [he counts five important black exponents] and consumed by
> an overwhelmingly white public."

>"It is not unlikely that the mild Pacific climate
> of California (in Los Angeles 325 sunny days per year) favored a
> mentality in which effortless enjoyment and a preference for simple
> cheerfulness developed into the dominant patterns of musical
> behavior."
>
> --Steve Berman

This Jost guy sounds like a dork of the first water.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: the business end
Date: 06 Feb 2002 09:30:03 -0800



> From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 15:09:22 +0000
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: the business end
>
> That would be  for just playing on the date, I believe the leader was paid
> extra (maybe even double?), and then of course the cats like Miles and Monk
> got an advance (not much , I think around $2000?) to sign an 'exclusive'
> with the label. Apparently Blue Note paid twice as much (cashwise, they
> didn't provide the substances), and the band even had the luxury of a day's
> rehearsal. In the '50s Prestige was known as the junkies' label, Red Garland
> was the in-house pusher...

For whatever its worth, Monk's Prestige contract was purchased by Riverside
for $109 -- the balance of what he owed the label in non-recouped costs.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Scott Handley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Dick Hyman + Enoch Light  (was RE: Independent Groups)
Date: 06 Feb 2002 09:29:38 -0800 (PST)

<--- "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S)"
[e-mail]> wrote:
>This
> school payed $10,000 for a Dick Hyman (yes that's
> his name) solo concert.
> (He was involved in the sdtk for Woody Allen's
> RADIODAYS -- I think....)

I'm getting really tangential here, but please bear
with me.  A few/several issues ago in The Wire, there
was a backpage editorial---one of the
testimonies/anecdotes The Wire calls
"Epiphanies"---with Drew Daniel from Matmos extolling
the virtues of his thrift-bin-vinyl
revelation/discovery of the easy-listening wunderband
Enoch Light, which turned out to be a project of Dick
Hyman's (who I understand is actually an arranger of
note....Skip?).  Anyway, all this is topical, because
Daniel likens the complex inner workings of the
arrangements to Naked City, all the genre changes and
stop-on-a-dime acrobatics, albeit sprinkled with a
saccharine coating. (And can't that be sinfully
sweet?)  I've never heard Enoch light, but since we've
been discussing esoterica/exotica recently, and Naked
City, I thought I'd mention this group.  Is Enoch
Light worth checking out?

-----s

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Dick Hyman + Enoch Light  (was RE: Independent Groups)
Date: 06 Feb 2002 12:28:18 -0500

What I've heard of Enoch Light's stuff is totally and painfully lightweight.
he ran a couple labels in the 60's and 70's (Command & Project 3)that
cranked out tons of albums that cashed in on the hits of the day-the
precursor to Muzak?  There's some fun use of stereo on some of the
recordings, but Esquivel is way cooler for my money.
sean

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Scott Handley
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 12:30 PM


<--- "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S)"
[e-mail]> wrote:
>This
> school payed $10,000 for a Dick Hyman (yes that's
> his name) solo concert.
> (He was involved in the sdtk for Woody Allen's
> RADIODAYS -- I think....)

I'm getting really tangential here, but please bear
with me.  A few/several issues ago in The Wire, there
was a backpage editorial---one of the
testimonies/anecdotes The Wire calls
"Epiphanies"---with Drew Daniel from Matmos extolling
the virtues of his thrift-bin-vinyl
revelation/discovery of the easy-listening wunderband
Enoch Light, which turned out to be a project of Dick
Hyman's (who I understand is actually an arranger of
note....Skip?).  Anyway, all this is topical, because
Daniel likens the complex inner workings of the
arrangements to Naked City, all the genre changes and
stop-on-a-dime acrobatics, albeit sprinkled with a
saccharine coating. (And can't that be sinfully
sweet?)  I've never heard Enoch light, but since we've
been discussing esoterica/exotica recently, and Naked
City, I thought I'd mention this group.  Is Enoch
Light worth checking out?

-----s

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

-



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: refuting jost
Date: 06 Feb 2002 09:47:19 -0800

>Jazz, and attributes to both "a certain emotional reservation, which
>stands in clear contrast to the extraverted, even occasionally
>panic-ridden spontaneity and hectic quality of Bebop."  He calls
>Tristano's _Intuition_ and _Digression_ "a short-lived extravagance of
>white musicians who had temporarily freed themselves of the black
>background of jazz, the blues, and the urgent rhythm of Bebop, and now
>looked longingly towards the polyphonic sound worlds of the West...."

This is just ridiculous.  Neither of the Tristano free titles are bound to
polyphony or any kind of tonal implication that way.

And I don't recall Tristano's attitudes about California's jazz players in
general being all that loving

>However, he also notes that the MJQ (whose music he describes as
>substituting "the caution and elegance of pseudo-baroque counterpoint
>for the rhythmic fever of Bop") contradicts the notion that Cool Jazz
>is a "white music", and that Lester Young was the "involuntary father
>figure of Cool and West Coast Jazz".

this is part of something that is true.  The major figures of Califronia
jazz during the period cited Count Basie's band as the chief influence.

 >As prototypical of West Coast
>Jazz Jost cites the bands of Stand Kenton and Woody Herman (he
>characterizes the sax section of Herman's "Four Brothers" as the
>"standardization of the instrumental sound with the goal of maximal
>blending"); also the Chico Hamilton quintet.

Groups that sound absolutely nothing like each other.  Interesting.  And the
last of which being a springboard for Eric Dolphy.

>In West Coast Jazz
>"extremes were avoided; it was concerned less with exciting than with
>suggesting, not with being hectic and nervous, but with being carefree
>and comfortable."

There is enough West Coast music that contradicts that statement that it
doesn't even need a response other than head-shaking.

> He calls West Coast Jazz a "thoroughly white
>stylistic domain, formed of an aesthetic oriented towards European
>ideals of sound and structure, played almost exclusively by white
>musicians [he counts five important black exponents] and consumed by
>an overwhelmingly white public."

Ill-founded, given Central Avenue's prolific output and high degree of
influence.

>He argues that the rise and
>(short-lived) success of West Coast Jazz was conditioned by the social
>and economic development of (southern) California (in particular the
>movie industry), but also speculates (and as a native Angelo I can't
>resist citing this): "It is not unlikely that the mild Pacific climate
>of California (in Los Angeles 325 sunny days per year) favored a
>mentality in which effortless enjoyment and a preference for simple
>cheerfulness developed into the dominant patterns of musical
>behavior."

It's more likely that weather and population density play a role in the
atmosphere in which one expresses himself.  Think about it this way -- if
you take the NY subways every day, you're liable to feel a certain way.  But
you're probably going to feel different if you're taking a subway every day.
Factors like this, weather etc definitely color the music.  It's a big part
of artistic regionalism.

skip h
-



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Dick Hyman + Enoch Light  (was RE: Independent Groups)
Date: 06 Feb 2002 09:48:24 -0800



> From: Scott Handley <[e-mail]>
> Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 09:29:38 -0800 (PST)
> To: Zorn-List <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Dick Hyman + Enoch Light  (was RE: Independent Groups)
>
> Is Enoch
> Light worth checking out?

No.  His stuff sounds like old shopping music.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tim Blechmann <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: alas
Date: 06 Feb 2002 18:56:14 +0100

jt>        I assume you mean the second Jim Black Alas No Axis cd, since
jt> the first one came out last year.  We only hear about W&W release
jt> dates 1 month in advance.  The second AlasNoAxis will be out later
jt> this year, but no idea exactly when.  Next time I see Jim, I will ask
jt> him.  take care, Bruce at DMG

i am not sure, but as far as i remember it will be released in march
or april (in germany).

 Tim                          mailto:[e-mail]
                              ICQ: 96771783
--
The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live,
mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time,
the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn,
burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across
the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and
everybody goes "Awww!"
                                                          Jack Kerouac


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Rev. Freud Hairs" <[e-mail]>
Subject: The Concert for New York City
Date: 06 Feb 2002 10:09:20 -0800

>"It is not unlikely that the mild Pacific climate
> of California (in Los Angeles 325 sunny days per year) favored a
> mentality in which effortless enjoyment and a preference for
simple
> cheerfulness developed into the dominant patterns of musical
> behavior."

Funny, I just watched the DVD "The Concert For New York City." If
ever their was an occasion calling for music which exemplifies
effort and complexity, this was such an occasion. However, the DVD
is very much a showcase for effortless enjoyment and simple
cheerfulness (musically speaking). The *dominant* patterns are
pretty universal regardless of locale:

Paul McCartney, The Who, Bon Jovi, Bono and Edge of U2, David
Bowie, Elton John, Destiny's Child, Janet Jackson (remote from
Pittsburgh), Backstreet Boys, Mick Jagger, John Mellencamp, Eric
Clapton, Billy Joel, James Taylor, Melissa Etheridge, Macy Gray,
Marc Anthony, Five For Fighting, Goo Goo Dolls, Jay-Z


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Buckethead, Was: Re: alasnoaxis
Date: 06 Feb 2002 19:42:45 +0100


> > So, um, how about that Buckethead, eh?
>
> Based on my experience of three shows with his projects five years ago, I
> think it was the most self-indulgent crap I have ever seen in my whole
life.
Same goes for his records. I liked the ones with Laswells editing all around
him, but his stuff (on Avant f.i.) is crap: hopeless demo-ing of the most
self indulgent kind (especially the fact that it is being released as a
'real' album disturbed me).

Henry Kaiser kind of discovered him, Buckethead is on a nice track of the
so-so Kaiser cd 'Hope you like our new direction' (1991). Kaiser reveals
Bucketheads real name, too, it's Brian Carroll.
Regards, Remco Takken


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Misha Mengelberg, Was: Re: events in Lund/Kopenhagen?
Date: 06 Feb 2002 20:13:57 +0100


I will be back in time for the
> Misha Mengelberg / H. Bennink/ B. Jones/ D. Douglas concerts at the
BIMhuis.
> Any idea on what to expect? Similar "quiet" stuff as last year with
> M.M./J. Baron/ G. Cohen or (hopefully...) something more exciting?

Mhm, I hope you live long enough to grow into the concept of excitement in
quietly brooding atmospheres. Misha Mengelberg is capable off that, so you
missed the point the first time. Misha's just really meaningful as a
soiloist, especially when disguising as Thelonious Monk's best pupil. Then,
at least at one of last years concerts, Lee Konitz sat in, now here's an
interesting quiet guy to start with.

But, perhaps I am trying in vain, you might be one of those people who just
need a hammer in order to *feel* something coming through. I can't give it
to you.

Regards, Remco Takken





-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tori Amos, indeed: Highbrow ripp-offs
Date: 06 Feb 2002 19:53:02 +0100

I was just curious
> about concrete examples because you sound like you're coming from more of
a
> jazz/improv/experimental direction, and while I find it easy to think of
> rock ripoffs, it's a little tougher with the Highbrow Stuff.
What about a 'highbrow guy' trying to be Frank Zappa? Pierre Henry once made
a hopeless sixties album called Messe pour les temps present. He really
tries to keep up with psychedelica by using the riff of Louie Louie in his
score. Ouch.

It's just as embarassing as seeing Mick Jagger discussing the problems of
the world with the bishop of Canterbury. At least one of them must have had
a really bad advisor.
------------
Dutch composer Louis Andriessen would be utterly cool if he would stop
trying to be fucking Stravinsky all the time. Although Andriessen built a
sound world of his own, the fandom towards Stravinsky is just too obvious to
be regarded as 'transcended' or 'perverted'. He just uses piles of
Stravinsky in his orchestrations.

Stravinsky might be the winner here: it should be very easy to find further
examples of mediocre composers doing the rhythmic thing Stravinsky refined,
or the use of wind instruments in small orchestras.

btw saxophone player Joshua Redman got stuck at the 'c' in his
alphabetically ordered jazz record collection. His cd 'Beyond' doesn't even
try to go beyond Coltrane. Redman became *so* Coltrane, it's almost scary.
And useless.

Regards, Remco Takken


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Duke Wong" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Zorn's Pants
Date: 06 Feb 2002 14:12:44 -0500

Personally I have seen the following colored cargo motifs worn by Mr. Zorn:

green, gray-white, red, yellow-green, blue

When asked how many pairs of such pants he owns, I believe the answer was
around 10. I guess the man likes his cargo camos.

Let's see which ones he'll don for tomorrow night's show. My bet's on the
yellow ones.

-- Duke

np: Roberto Juan Rodriguez, El Danzon de Moises


Second (and a trivial
matter I might add) is that I first saw John Zorn live about 2 years
ago.Hewas wearing camouflage pants.  In the next 8 or so times I saw him, he
had the same pants on.  About a year ago, I saw a picture of him in the NY
Times and he had the pants on again.  I just looked at the pics on the
website recommended of the Naked City live from 1990.  Guess what?  He is
wearing thepants.


_________________________________________________________________
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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Chris Selvig <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tori Amos, indeed: Highbrow ripp-offs
Date: 06 Feb 2002 12:30:01 -0800

Remco,
   In a private email to Zach, which I never got 'round to sending, I was
going to ask him if he was talking about Redman and/or James Carter.  Henry
also made that record with Spooky Tooth, so I guess he really wanted to rock.
   OK, I'm going to get in trouble for this, but I'm going to stick my
digital foot in my virtual mouth and ask:  is jazz a dead language at this
point, or can we really look forward to major formal innovations in the
future?  Of course it's hard to predict if or when someone will invent the
next dead horse, but even the hot young players aren't really doing much
that would have been new in 1982, much less now.  The lines between
European free improv and American free jazz are growing blurrier, and
forays into electronics/turntable action are more common, and previously
untouched ethnic musics are crossbred with jazz, and that's about it.
   I'll be preparing my foxhole.

-Selvig



At 07:53 PM 2/6/02 +0100, Remco Takken wrote:
>I was just curious
> > about concrete examples because you sound like you're coming from more of
>a
> > jazz/improv/experimental direction, and while I find it easy to think of
> > rock ripoffs, it's a little tougher with the Highbrow Stuff.
>What about a 'highbrow guy' trying to be Frank Zappa? Pierre Henry once made
>a hopeless sixties album called Messe pour les temps present. He really
>tries to keep up with psychedelica by using the riff of Louie Louie in his
>score. Ouch.
>
>It's just as embarassing as seeing Mick Jagger discussing the problems of
>the world with the bishop of Canterbury. At least one of them must have had
>a really bad advisor.
>------------
>Dutch composer Louis Andriessen would be utterly cool if he would stop
>trying to be fucking Stravinsky all the time. Although Andriessen built a
>sound world of his own, the fandom towards Stravinsky is just too obvious to
>be regarded as 'transcended' or 'perverted'. He just uses piles of
>Stravinsky in his orchestrations.
>
>Stravinsky might be the winner here: it should be very easy to find further
>examples of mediocre composers doing the rhythmic thing Stravinsky refined,
>or the use of wind instruments in small orchestras.
>
>btw saxophone player Joshua Redman got stuck at the 'c' in his
>alphabetically ordered jazz record collection. His cd 'Beyond' doesn't even
>try to go beyond Coltrane. Redman became *so* Coltrane, it's almost scary.
>And useless.
>
>Regards, Remco Takken

Chris Selvig


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: downtown related items on ebay
Date: 06 Feb 2002 20:34:03 +0000

sorry for the ad. i have a couple items that might be of interest up on
ebay.

'out of their mouths M2K' item#1511504554
double disc post-punk comp on atavistic from 1996, w/teenage jesus and the
jerks, crescent, mars, chrome cranks, the scissor girls, the dream
syndicate, eleventh dream day, wynn/rizzo/bean/gay, tigerlilies, wolverton
brothers, mx-80, antimuro, theoretical girls, lydia lunch, e.a.r., blastula,
wharton tiers, glenn branca, lydia lunch, thurston moore, elliott sharp's
carbon, bruce anderson, gerry miles & alan licht, the vnadermark five, raeo,
nrg ensemble, gordy horn infusion, lee ranaldo. full color front and back
art show only slight wear. discs in perfect condition

sean lennon - half horse, half musician item #1511449961
promo-only 7-song cd by sean lennon, includes 2 remixes from 'into the sun.'
full color front and back art. tracks are: queue (radio mix), spaceship
(radio mix), dream, heart & lung (texas motel version), 5/8, pyramid,
happiness (on the bus version). produced by sean and cibo matto's yuka
honda. w/mito hatori, john medeski, timo ellis, greg ribot, smokey hormel,
duma love, japa keenan, kenny wollensen, brad jones, ej rodriguez, kenny
wollensen.




_________________________________________________________________
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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "John Schuller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Old School
Date: 06 Feb 2002 13:20:02 -0800

1994. http://expage.com/mypageistoogay

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Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Alan Kayser" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 06 Feb 2002 16:22:26 -0500

Marcin wrote

"You are IMO wrong. JZ plays the role now Miles played in the 60's an early
'70s. He organizes musicians, finds the, shows somehow the way. Many leading
musicians (see douglas and frisell, for example) have been influenced by him
very strongly. We'd have had loads of good musicians - ornette, ayler,
dolphy - had Miles not been there, but he was surely central.
FWIW, I can  hardly anyone else producieng piececes that would be comparable
in importance with godard, spillane, troture garden, or absinthe."

Uh, oh.  I hope you aren't serious here.  I like what JZ has done, and take
nothing away from what he has accomplished.  But...First, Frisell, as with
many of the musicians associated with JZ, was around for quite some time
before falling in with NC.  He certainly didn't "find" Frisell, as say Miles
found 17 year old Tony Williams.  I don't hear the musical influence on
Douglas, Frisell, as say Miles had on Weather Report, Lifetime, Mahavishnu,
and countless others. JZ has thrown many projects against the wall, some
hit, some miss.  Miles concentrated only on his own projects, rarely if ever
getting involved in anything else.  Just being around Miles seemed to
inspire his sidemen.  I recently read that Sonny Sharrock, though he only
spent one day with Miles in the studio, was profoundly influenced by the
experience.  He said that Miles never really communicated in verbal terms
exactly what he wanted.  Yet he had a way of touching each musician.  Dave
Holland said he learned more about music riding in the car with Miles after
flying in from the UK than he had ever known before.  Miles had an uncanny
knack for choosing the right people for his music, and the right music for
his people.  Is there among JZ people a Coltrane, Shorter, Corea, Hancock,
Carter, McLaughlin, DeJohnette, Jarrett, etc etc?  From his early days with
Parker until (IMHO) about 1973 Miles produced one masterwork after another,
most of which have stood the test of time.  I don't think we've yet gotten
or can expect a Kind of Blue, Bitches Brew, Silent Way, Sketches of Spain,
Milestones or anything close out of JZ, but who's looking.  As far as
finding and organizing, how about Uri Caine and Bobby Previte, to name two.
They have both produced very diversified projects utilizing many of the same
musicians as JZ.  And again IMHO, both have produced music every bit as
important as JZ.  Neither has achieved the "cult" status that JZ seems to
have at this point.  This is not meant to compare or take anything away from
JZ.  Just think the Miles comparison is a bit off.

Alan Kayser













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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tori Amos, indeed: Highbrow ripp-offs
Date: 06 Feb 2002 22:44:01 +0100

>    OK, I'm going to get in trouble for this, but I'm going to stick my
> digital foot in my virtual mouth and ask:  is jazz a dead language at this
> point, or can we really look forward to major formal innovations in the
> future?  Of course it's hard to predict if or when someone will invent the
> next dead horse, but even the hot young players aren't really doing much
> that would have been new in 1982, much less now.  The lines between

I have the fear that most of the really important innovations from appr 1970
on, appear in almost total and complete obscurity. Also, don't let yourself
become impressed by all the re-writing of jazz history. Who wants to
remember that most of the early repertoire of Duke ellington's band
consisted of waltzes? There are no records of this (it is no jazz), but this
big band would have been out of work within the year, if they only played
the stuff that we now see shine so clearly. Times were blurred then, too,
just like they are now.

Joshua Redman, James Carter and other 'superstars' (that aren't known in the
way Dizzy or Louis or Miles were known) just aren't the guys to check out
right now. I try to stay away of screaming out who's the greatest in this
present time, but i dont' think it was that clear in, say, 1959.

Maybe Prestige, Blue Note, Riverside were what Between the Lines, TryTone,
Tzadik and Erstwhile are now. Remember, there were many days Coltrane played
for 15 people, even (and especially) in the sixties. Jazzmammoth bassplayer
Ray Brown (now 75) once put it like this: Jazz has always been this big.
Media attention wasn't that great in the old days.

If you try to generalise modern jazz by reducing it to Joshua Redman and
James Carter in order to make a point, you will lose your point just as easy
by overlooking the niches where great art always have been created. Herbie
Nichols, and even Thelonious Monk weren't that big back in their golden
days.

Regards, Remco


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jason tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: cibo matto recs
Date: 06 Feb 2002 13:35:04 -0800 (PST)

hello, I am interested in exploring the various works of cibo matto,
any suggestions for the essential[s]?

you can respond privately or to the list if you feel its valid.

J

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: crymad <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Independent Groups
Date: 06 Feb 2002 14:05:43 -0800



"Matthew W Wirzbicki (S)" wrote:
>  This
> school payed $10,000 for a Dick Hyman (yes that's his name) solo concert.
> (He was involved in the sdtk for Woody Allen's RADIODAYS -- I think....)

Dick Hyman also released two of the earliest moog albums, THE ELECTRIC
ECLECTICS OF DICK HYMAN and MOOG PIECES.  Some that music was quite
adventurous for the time.  In fact, it would probably even make most
modern-day shoppers a little uneasy if played in today's supermarkets.

--crymad

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 06 Feb 2002 08:32:12 +0100

Hi,

Alan wrote:

Is there among JZ people a Coltrane, Shorter, Corea, Hancock,
> Carter, McLaughlin, DeJohnette, Jarrett, etc etc?  From his early days
with
> Parker until (IMHO) about 1973 Miles produced one masterwork after
another,
> most of which have stood the test of time.

Maybe not a Coltrane, but certainly JZ has gathered a superb group of
collaborators around him: Frith, Ribot, Baron, Rothenberg, A. Coleman,
Douglas, Cohen, ... and the list could go on forever. I think the skills of
these musicians are undeniable (either you like them or not). If we add to
that the fact that some of them are also superb composers, I think your
statement is a bit too Miles-friendly or perhaps nostalgic.


 I don't think we've yet gotten
> or can expect a Kind of Blue, Bitches Brew, Silent Way, Sketches of Spain,
> Milestones or anything close out of JZ, but who's looking.

We haven't? It depends on your personal taste, but "Spillane" or "Elegy"
mean much more to me than any of the records you mention. I understand they
are important for many people, and going against Miles has "come rather
expensive" to me, so to speak. Maybe my age prevents me from enjoying those
titles in all their supposed immensity, but IMHO, Miles had his time, and
now's the time for something else. Of course, I don't expect anyone of any
future generations to produce another "Spillane", because it's supposed to
be unique. And, of course, I also look back when purchasing or just
listening to music, but your comments seem to me a little "anchored in the
past" .


 As far as
> finding and organizing, how about Uri Caine and Bobby Previte, to name
two.
> They have both produced very diversified projects utilizing many of the
same
> musicians as JZ.  And again IMHO, both have produced music every bit as
> important as JZ.

I don't know about Uri Caine, because I haven't heard too many of his works,
but putting Previte at the same level as Zorn seems quite exaggerated. Maybe
I missed something, but I find him just a great drummer with a
immediately-recognizable sound. However I have strong doubts about his
compositional competence.

Neither has achieved the "cult" status that JZ seems to
> have at this point.  This is not meant to compare or take anything away
from
> JZ.  Just think the Miles comparison is a bit off.
> Alan Kayser

Sure, Alan, absolutely off!!. Just an opinion.


Best,

EfrΘn del Valle
n.p: Susie Ibarra Trio "Songbird Suite" (Tzadik)





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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: mwoodwor <[e-mail]>
Subject: manchester with previte
Date: 06 Feb 2002 18:42:17 -0400

hey - I will be in Manchester from Feb 14-21 - anyone know of any good
concerts/things going on during this time?

Also, I'm enjoying the new Bobby Previte on Tzadik ssooooooooo much, but have
heard luke-warm reviews for his other new album on Palmetto with the 'Bump the
Renisance' group.  This surprises me, first because I've loved almost all of
his albums and because the original bump the renisance album (and group) as
well as his other early release 'pushing the envelope' were both so fantastic.
Can any one on the list comment about the new one?  Finally, I'm pretty sure
I've spelt renisance wronge but I'm too lasy to shuffle over to my CD rack and
check on correct spelling................

w.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: the new miles's
Date: 06 Feb 2002 15:03:22 -0800

More in jazz than in any other genre, it seems that there's a need to feel
that the phaseology of jazz is a repeating timeline, so that certain figures
may be called the new Tranne, the new Bird, whatever.

It does no justice to anyone.  Calling Ornette Coleman the "new Bird" did no
service, because the two guys emerged on their respective scenes each with
such different equipment than the other, and the effect Bird had was more to
convert already-active players to a new pallette that organically extended
the old one, whereas the effect Ornette seemed more to be to establish a
different community of players as a means to break clean from the old
pallette.

But many people wrote that Ornette Coleman was the new Bird, which served
mostly to draw battle lines between those who embraced Ornette and those who
dismissed him.

There are a great many things Zorn and Miles Davis share in common.  While
Miles did not "discover" Cannonball Adderley or Bill Evans for instance,
they did go through his group and were changed drastically for having done
so.  But Zorn's methods of leading groups, and even his manifest need to
mount different ensembles for different bodies of work is unlike Miles.  And
those things are so much of what makes Zorn Zorn.

(One could make a farily substantial argument for Don Byron Plays Mickey
Katz as the 1990's analog to the 1960s Miles quintet, in terms of who came
out of it and the relative importance of their subsequent work -- Dave
Douglas, Uri Caine, John Roseman, Mark Feldman, and Mark Dresser.)

The situations under which jazz is played, recorded, and presented have
changed so drastically between 1961 and 1991 that the need to call someone
"the [insert name] of the 1990's" is at best a slippery slope.  And the same
could be said of 1941 and 1961.

Any strong leader who has a specific musical vision -- Miles, Mingus, Zorn,
Prince, Raymond Scott, Zappa -- is going to share things in common with
other strong musical leaders posessed of specific musical vision.  But that
doesn't mean that they mirror each other.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Odp: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
Date: 07 Feb 2002 00:15:52 +0100


> Reading my statement above I realize that it could be misunderstood. By
"not
> buying it anymore", I meant the argument that Skip was pushing (people
being
> clueless, illustrated by the Mark Twain quote).

After having deciding toi THINK, i came to the solution you pointed here.
But i was a little bit shocked at first.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Whit Schonbein <[e-mail]>
Subject: dick hyman
Date: 06 Feb 2002 17:25:56 -0600 (CST)


i have a couple of enoch light albums i enjoy more for the album art than
the music.  my only hyman album is 'Moog: The Electric Eclectics of Dick
Hyman', on Command records (same as enoch light).  It features such
kwality klassiks as 'Tap Dance in the Memory Banks', 'Topless Dancers of
Corfu', and my personal favorite (title, that is), 'The Legend of Johnny
Pot'.  The album liner notes trumpet, "The Startling Sounds of the Brave
New Music World!...singular, synthesized composition that heralds the
future art of Sound-Expansion!"  I can't find a date on it anywhere, so i
have no idea what year it heralds from. In the end, the music is not as
good as, say, Perry and Kingsley's moog work (if 'good' is an adjective
that can be used here).  And that's all I know about Dick Hyman.

end transmission.....whit


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: cibo matto recs
Date: 06 Feb 2002 18:41:48 EST

i really like viva la woman!.
i also like any of their albums (several have it) with the song "know your
chicken".

i also really, really like sean lennon's first album.  i know the lyrics are
total shit mostly, but i think musically it's just a really hip album, and
yuka honda is on it all over the place (as is john medeski).  i guess that's
what happens when you're the son of famous people and fuck other famous
people.

love,
  kate.
*fukkr
-----
[ .n o t h i n g  i s  w h a t  i s  s a i d. ]

.k a t e  p e t e r s o n.
.c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r.
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>
<A HREF="http://www.icefoundation.org">http://www.icefoundation.org</A>
(roundtable)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Brian Olewnick" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jazz Death?
Date: 06 Feb 2002 19:38:48 -0500

Chris Selwig dared to ask:

>    OK, I'm going to get in trouble for this, but I'm going to stick my
> digital foot in my virtual mouth and ask:  is jazz a dead language at this
> point, or can we really look forward to major formal innovations in the
> future?

If it's not dead, it's on a resuscitator. I've argued this point here and
elsewhere for a number of years. While I'm not quite as extreme as some, I
do think that there has been extremely little of great value produced in the
last few years that any reasonable listener would term "jazz" and that what
_has_ been achieved has been by musicians 40 years old or older. For
example, imho, Cecil Taylor still creates at almost as high a level as he
ever has, Braxton still produces fine work (though calling his superb
"Composition 247" from last year "jazz" would certainly be stretching the
term); Threadgill, Bailey, etc. are all still in pretty good shape. My
personal favorite jazz of the last 10 or so years has been that of Barry
Guy's LJCO and New Orchestra, though whether one wants to call that
innovative or building on the solid foundations laid by Mantler and the JCOA
is an open question. (fwiw, I don't think Zorn's produced much of interest
since 'Bar Kokhba').

But all of these folk are my age (47) and older. I don't see _any_ jazz
musicians in their 20's doing beautiful, innovative work. To be sure, we're
up to our knees in fine jazz _musicians_, but not, imho, great jazz
creators. I've said it before, I'll say it again: where's the current
equivalent, in jazz, of Braxton in 1968 (at 23, when he recorded 'For
Alto'), Roscoe Mitchell in 1966, Mingus in 1959, Taylor in 1955, etc.? I
don't hear him/her. It might be a simple matter of there being no stones
left to overturn. I've heard several musicians use the term "an historical
form" with regard to jazz and perhaps that's the simple fact of the matter.
All movements have their life spans; no reason to think jazz is any
different. It troubles me, as it's a form I very much love but....

There are tons of great young musicians, but they aren't playing jazz. I had
the huge pleasure of hearing one of them several times over this past
weekend: Taku Sugimoto (alone and in the company of two wonderful old
timers, Gunter Muller and Keith Rowe (the latter, in his early 60's, quite
capable of holding his own in any stable of youngsters). I'm currently in
the midst of the pretty amazing 10-CD set, "Improvised Music from Japan"
which features numerous musicians born in the 60's and 70's, many of whom
are creating far more vital free music than their jazz-rooted peers.

Of course, this is just my opinion. But when it comes time for someone like
Cecil to die (he's about 73, I believe), I don't see anyone to take his
stead. Not Matt Shipp, not DD Jackson much less Brad Mehldau. Fine pianists
all but not nearly in Taylor's league as thinkers/creators. Sure, there
might be some toiling away in total obscurity, but obscurity is harder and
harder to achieve these days.

Of course, I'd love to be proven wrong on all this.

Brian Olewnick

NP - Aki Onda - Two Women




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 07 Feb 2002 02:06:34 +0100


----- Original Message -----

> Uh, oh.  I hope you aren't serious here.

No, I'm not. ;-). I just wanted to point out to the person who sent the mail
in which he/ she stated that nothing special would have happened if there
was no zorn records that his importance goes beyond the existance of cds on
shelves: he's a great leader, a visionnary, a label owner, etc.


>I like what JZ has done, and take
> nothing away from what he has accomplished.  But...First, Frisell, as with
> many of the musicians associated with JZ, was around for quite some time
> before falling in with NC.He certainly didn't "find" Frisell, as say Miles
> found 17 year old Tony Williams.    I don't hear the musical influence on
> Douglas, Frisell, as say Miles had on Weather Report, Lifetime,
Mahavishnu,
> and countless others.


BF's 'before we were born' recorded in 1987 contains a track arranged by
Zorn. BF has played on Spillane and godard, the latter being from 1985. and
his records before he met JZ were different.
DD states JZ as major influece, and a lot of his pieces have a strong JZ
influence (thre's a NC-like eclectic piece on forst quartet disc, for
example)
I do not want to say that the situation is 100 percent identical,  just
similarities exist. And i do think, BTW, that BF's americana period is an
effort to free from JZ's influence.



> finding and organizing, how about Uri Caine and Bobby Previte, to name
two.
> They have both produced very diversified projects utilizing many of the
same
> musicians as JZ.  And again IMHO, both have produced music every bit as
> important as JZ.  Neither has achieved the "cult" status that JZ seems to
> have at this point.  This is not meant to compare or take anything away
from
> JZ.  Just think the Miles comparison is a bit off.

as i said, i see no contemporary work that would be as important and
original as godard, spillane, torture garden, absinthe, even masada, in a
way. And if we take zorn's work as a whole, its weight becomes even more
obvious. Previte makes great records, but what would you try to put up
against JZ's work? Hue&cry is his bets, but it is not more original then
masada.
I do not want to say that JZ = MD of 1990's or anything. Just wnated to
state that he's VERY important. And the 'cult' status is an element of it -
it makes him very influential, he's a partof our culture in a wider sense:
not just as musician, but as a 'freak musician of our time', a position held
probably by Zappa in late 60s an 70s.
Marcin




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 06 Feb 2002 17:08:43 -0800



> From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 02:06:34 +0100
> To: "Alan Kayser" <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Odp: Zorn as Miles????????
>
> as i said, i see no contemporary work that would be as important and
> original as godard, spillane, torture garden, absinthe, even masada, in a
> way.

We'll probably have a better idea in a few yrs as to what was important, to
whom, and for how long.  It's too soon to tell about Uri Caine's Mahler
Project, Charms Of The Night Sky, or a million other things.  Importance is
a tricky issue to throw around, because each listener and each player forms
his own musical tradition.  And in many musical communities within the
jazz/new music realm, Zorn is not seen as all that influential.  In others,
the guy is unavoidable.  And, in a way, who cares, really? If each person
who gets into some aspect of Zorn's music is somehow the better for it,
that's better than some declaration (from wherever these things are
decalred) that he or anybody else is "important".  I don't really hear the
press saying how important Cannonball Adderley is, but Cannonball Adderley
is still wielding a very positive influence over a lot of players who did
not bother to check if he was "relevant", "important", or anything else.
They just hear it, love it, and draw from it.  Which is the best.

skip h



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: the new miles's
Date: 07 Feb 2002 02:24:09 +0100

Skip  wrote:

> Any strong leader who has a specific musical vision -- Miles, Mingus,
Zorn,
> Prince, Raymond Scott, Zappa -- is going to share things in common with
> other strong musical leaders posessed of specific musical vision.  But
that
> doesn't mean that they mirror each other.

But MD shared with JZ the extreme diversityof his output. As I wrote before,
i do not want to push this analogy very hard - i just meant that he's
important as a leader of some musical community.
This list is a good exaple of his role - although the man is not that ofyten
discussed, we're discussing on all those kinds of music on the ZORN LIST.
Marcin


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jazz Death?
Date: 06 Feb 2002 17:26:24 -0800



> From: "Brian Olewnick" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 19:38:48 -0500
> To: <[e-mail]>, "Chris Selvig" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: Jazz Death?
>
> Chris Selwig dared to ask:
>
>> OK, I'm going to get in trouble for this, but I'm going to stick my
>> digital foot in my virtual mouth and ask:  is jazz a dead language at this
>> point, or can we really look forward to major formal innovations in the
>> future?
Is innovation neccessary for the stuff to feel and sound good? I was in New
orleans for my honeymoon this past October, and I heard some guys playing
really beautiful music in a comparitively early style.  It wasn't
freeze-dried or anything, it was just the way they played, and it delivered
the goods.

To me -- and I speak only for myself -- the object isn't to launch a major
formal innovation.  It's for each player and listener to share some notion
of discovery along the way.

> If it's not dead, it's on a resuscitator. I've argued this point here and
> elsewhere for a number of years. While I'm not quite as extreme as some, I
> do think that there has been extremely little of great value produced in the
> last few years that any reasonable listener would term "jazz" and that what
> _has_ been achieved has been by musicians 40 years old or older.

It depends who you ask and where their tastes lie.  Also, the term
"reasonable listener" might get you an argument from someone like Dave
Douglas, who thinks a reasonable listener is exactly liable to stretch the
term jazz to include all sorts of things.

> For
> example, imho, Cecil Taylor still creates at almost as high a level as he
> ever has, Braxton still produces fine work (though calling his superb
> "Composition 247" from last year "jazz" would certainly be stretching the
> term); Threadgill, Bailey, etc. are all still in pretty good shape. My
> personal favorite jazz of the last 10 or so years has been that of Barry
> Guy's LJCO and New Orchestra, though whether one wants to call that
> innovative or building on the solid foundations laid by Mantler and the JCOA
> is an open question. (fwiw, I don't think Zorn's produced much of interest
> since 'Bar Kokhba').

A lot of reasonable listeners would disagree with that assessment of Zorn,
though.  Also, I see some really incredible young players/thinkers who are
building their own vocabulary in the music. Jim Black leaps to mind.

> But all of these folk are my age (47) and older. I don't see _any_ jazz
> musicians in their 20's doing beautiful, innovative work.

I don't think "beautiful" and "innovative" mean the same thing.  Hank Jones
may not be the most innovative pianist, but he's one of the most beautiful.

Also, the downtown crowd is, as a school of thought, still relatively young,
but largely made up of players who came that way after developing somewhere
else, so they are not in the most advanced stages of their respective
careers (if that makes any sense) even though they're often ten yrs older
than the previous typical upstarts.

> To be sure, we're
> up to our knees in fine jazz _musicians_, but not, imho, great jazz
> creators. I've said it before, I'll say it again: where's the current
> equivalent, in jazz, of Braxton in 1968 (at 23, when he recorded 'For
> Alto'), Roscoe Mitchell in 1966, Mingus in 1959, Taylor in 1955, etc.? I
> don't hear him/her.
Think of how undisocvered those people (save for Mingus) were during the
years you state, then ask this: How much amazing shit is going on that
likely I'm not hearing yet?

> It might be a simple matter of there being no stones
> left to overturn. I've heard several musicians use the term "an historical
> form" with regard to jazz and perhaps that's the simple fact of the matter.
> All movements have their life spans; no reason to think jazz is any
> different. It troubles me, as it's a form I very much love but....
Your words echo almost exactly those dixieland and swing guys who were
lamenting the coming of a form they considered not jazz -- be-bop.  Jazz is
less a what than a how, so it will endure.

> There are tons of great young musicians, but they aren't playing jazz.
That's one opinion, not neccessarily held by the players.  My thesis -- is
you design it as jazz, and execute it in a collective ensemble context (solo
work not withstanding), it's jazz.  What happens next is the listener's
decision.
>
> Of course, this is just my opinion. But when it comes time for someone like
> Cecil to die (he's about 73, I believe), I don't see anyone to take his
> stead. Not Matt Shipp, not DD Jackson much less Brad Mehldau. Fine pianists
> all but not nearly in Taylor's league as thinkers/creators. Sure, there
> might be some toiling away in total obscurity, but obscurity is harder and
> harder to achieve these days.
So's media attention.  You can bet your bottom $ that there are guys doing
exactly what you crave, and probably lots of 'em, but that they're nowhere
near an effective publicist.

> Of course, I'd love to be proven wrong on all this.
You might be.  And you'll likely be relieved to be.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 07 Feb 2002 02:19:32 +0100



> titles in all their supposed immensity, but IMHO, Miles had his time, and
> now's the time for something else.

Efren...
Try approaching Miles with three albums: 'filles de kilimajaro', 'big fun',
and 'Dark Magus'.
If that won't work, then well, probably nothing ever will.
But I can hardly imagine THAT. Those albums are real killers, they blow away
non - miles jazz record, except, maybe 'out to lunch'. In my humble,
although true ;-), opinion, of course.


> I don't know about Uri Caine, because I haven't heard too many of his
works,
> but putting Previte at the same level as Zorn seems quite exaggerated.
Maybe
> I missed something, but I find him just a great drummer with a
> immediately-recognizable sound. However I have strong doubts about his
> compositional competence.

I have not heard his last album, which I suppose is great, but his 'Weather
clear, track fast' albums are very, very good. Not very original, but gret
music.
Best,
Marcin


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Odp: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 07 Feb 2002 02:38:36 +0100



> We'll probably have a better idea in a few yrs as to what was important,
to
> whom, and for how long.  It's too soon to tell about Uri Caine's Mahler
> Project, Charms Of The Night Sky, or a million other things.

FWIW, I do not believe that any of those projects could be influential.
Caine's mahler seems to be repeating what Mclaugling tried to do on 'Vision
of the emerald beyond' - very explosive arrangements etc., but the whole
thing gets boring ofter a few listens.

>  Importance is
> a tricky issue to throw around, because each listener and each player
forms
> his own musical tradition.  And in many musical communities within the
> jazz/new music realm, Zorn is not seen as all that influential.  In
others,
> the guy is unavoidable.  And, in a way, who cares, really?

Of course.

>If each person
> who gets into some aspect of Zorn's music is somehow the better for it,
> that's better than some declaration (from wherever these things are
> decalred) that he or anybody else is "important".  I don't really hear the
> press saying how important Cannonball Adderley is, but Cannonball Adderley
> is still wielding a very positive influence over a lot of players who did
> not bother to check if he was "relevant", "important", or anything else.
> They just hear it, love it, and draw from it.  Which is the best.

To make things clear, musicians with a capital M are IMO Igor Stravinsky,
Miles Davis, Brian Eno, John Zorn. They define the way I hear music now.




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: it's all just opinion, obviously. here's mine!
Date: 06 Feb 2002 20:29:25 EST

[e-mail] wrote re: Bobby Previte

>However I have strong doubts about his
>compositional competence.

Funny, I would have said the same thing about John Zorn.
For my money, Previte is one of *the* best composers to emerge from the
downtown scene & far surpasses JZ in that particular regard.

Steve

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 06 Feb 2002 17:37:00 -0800



> From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 02:38:36 +0100
> To: "Skip Heller" <[e-mail]>, "Alan Kayser"
> <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Odp: Odp: Zorn as Miles????????
>
> Caine's mahler seems to be repeating what Mclaugling tried to do on 'Vision
> of the emerald beyond' - very explosive arrangements etc., but the whole
> thing gets boring ofter a few listens.

Dissing Uri with me in the area is really dangerous.

sh


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Odp: Odp: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 07 Feb 2002 02:58:34 +0100


> > Caine's mahler seems to be repeating what Mclaugling tried to do on
'Vision
> > of the emerald beyond' - very explosive arrangements etc., but the whole
> > thing gets boring ofter a few listens.
>
> Dissing Uri with me in the area is really dangerous.

But don't you thinkj that there are some - not very direct - similiarities
between Caine's mahler studio album and this mahavishnu?


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Brian Olewnick" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jazz Death?
Date: 06 Feb 2002 20:51:15 -0500

Skip asked:

> Is innovation neccessary for the stuff to feel and sound good?

No, surely not. But just as surely, if there's no innovation, an art form
eventually dies. There's no great baroque music being composed these days,
if you notice.

> To me -- and I speak only for myself -- the object isn't to launch a major
> formal innovation.  It's for each player and listener to share some notion
> of discovery along the way.

Sure, but eventually it becomes apparent to any sensitive musician that he's
"discovering" nothing, but simply repeating things he's heard. As you
mentioned, there are musicians playing enjoyable ragtime, but there are no
composers (that I'm aware of) pursuing ragtime, writing startling and
evocative new ragtime compositions any longer.

> It depends who you ask and where their tastes lie.  Also, the term
> "reasonable listener" might get you an argument from someone like Dave
> Douglas, who thinks a reasonable listener is exactly liable to stretch the
> term jazz to include all sorts of things.

Douglas tries hard, I give him credit, but his recent work has bored me to
tears, including a performance of the Witness band at Victo last year. An
exception was "Charms of the Night Sky" (which I think you also mentioned as
enjoying), but that's one of his least "jazzy" efforts, no? Besides, most
anything with Klucevsek on it transcends boundries. At a recent Axel
Dorner/Andrea Neumann concert at Tonic, Douglas was in the crowd and picked
up the Dorner/Drumm Erstwhile disc, so maybe he's exploring more. But
Dorner/Drumm ain't jazz.
>
 > A lot of reasonable listeners would disagree with that assessment of
Zorn,
> though.  Also, I see some really incredible young players/thinkers who are
> building their own vocabulary in the music. Jim Black leaps to mind.

I like Black very much as a drummer. I don't (yet) hear him as a major
force.
>
> I don't think "beautiful" and "innovative" mean the same thing.  Hank
Jones
> may not be the most innovative pianist, but he's one of the most
beautiful.

He's also not 20 years old. I'd prefer to hear Randy Weston, Mal Waldron,
etc. to any dozen Matt Shipp's. They've carved out their own beautiful niche
_and_ were innovative themselves. I don't hear that in any younger jazz
pianist.

> Also, the downtown crowd is, as a school of thought, still relatively
young,
> but largely made up of players who came that way after developing
somewhere
> else, so they are not in the most advanced stages of their respective
> careers (if that makes any sense) even though they're often ten yrs older
> than the previous typical upstarts.

Well, I've seen Zorn play since 1977, and lots of these guys and gals are
into their 40's. Historically, most great art is made (or at least
conceptualized) by folk in their 20's. Zorn's done some monumental work (for
me: Spillane and Leng T'che, among others). I hear him treading mucho water
these last few years.

> Think of how undisocvered those people (save for Mingus) were during the
> years you state, then ask this: How much amazing shit is going on that
> likely I'm not hearing yet?

As I alluded to, though possible, I think that's far more unlikely these
days than before when almost anyone can get 1000 Cd's printed and have it
reviewed in WIRE, played on KCR or FMU, etc and gerneally get the word out.

> Your words echo almost exactly those dixieland and swing guys who were
> lamenting the coming of a form they considered not jazz -- be-bop.  Jazz
is
> less a what than a how, so it will endure.

Well, we get into the thorny problem of defining terms here. You may
consider AMM jazz, for example; I don't.

> So's media attention.  You can bet your bottom $ that there are guys doing
> exactly what you crave, and probably lots of 'em, but that they're nowhere
> near an effective publicist.

See above. Getting the attention of the 2500 or so potential buyers of
adventurous jazz is not that hard. Most all interested buyers read the same
magazines, the same websites.
>
> > Of course, I'd love to be proven wrong on all this.
> You might be.  And you'll likely be relieved to be.

Wish you were right.

Brian Olewnick

NP - Incapacitants - Forest in Noise 20010721


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Dick Hyman + Enoch Light (was RE: Independent Groups)
Date: 07 Feb 2002 02:23:59 +0000

>From: Scott Handley <[e-mail]>

Is Enoch
>Light worth checking out?

Certainly, if you find the LPs for under $1 and you have a turntable; like
so much of that kitschy lounge and exotica stuff, it was fun finding it in
thrift stores, but now that it's collectible, I would have to say it's not
really worth seeking out and paying the current asking prices; it's fun to
hear a couple of times, but really how many times are you going to go back
to it? Unlike Les Baxter, Martin Denny or Yma Sumac...

np:Debussy String Quartet in G minor Quartetto Italiano
nr: Thomas Mann Doctor Faustus

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jazz Death?
Date: 06 Feb 2002 18:43:23 -0800



> From: "Brian Olewnick" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 20:51:15 -0500
> To: "Skip Heller" <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>,
> "Chris Selvig" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: Jazz Death?
>
> Skip asked:
>
>> Is innovation neccessary for the stuff to feel and sound good?
>
> No, surely not. But just as surely, if there's no innovation, an art form
> eventually dies. There's no great baroque music being composed these days,
> if you notice.
I've heard, in the last twenty years, music derived from barouqe techniques
that I found quite compelling (generally student works).

>> To me -- and I speak only for myself -- the object isn't to launch a major
>> formal innovation.  It's for each player and listener to share some notion
>> of discovery along the way.
>
> Sure, but eventually it becomes apparent to any sensitive musician that he's
> "discovering" nothing, but simply repeating things he's heard.
Or rediscovering things about them he never figured before.  Astor Piazolla
is a great example of this.  Also, I don't know how sensitive a musician you
are, but everybody has their good days and their bad.
There are musicians whose tastes lead them to an improvisory style that does
not hinge on mountain-moving, but that are fantastic improvisors.  Breaking
new ground does not figure into their equation, even though they are
improvisors, and that does not make them a desensitized musician, or a
repetitive one.  If you look at John Hartford's output in the last five
years of his life, you'll see exactly what I mean.  I would also put Andy
Statman in this category.

> As you
> mentioned, there are musicians playing enjoyable ragtime, but there are no
> composers (that I'm aware of) pursuing ragtime, writing startling and
> evocative new ragtime compositions any longer.
And fifteen years ago, you might have been right to say the same thing about
klezmer music, but that's definitely taken on a new life.


> Douglas tries hard, I give him credit, but his recent work has bored me to
> tears, including a performance of the Witness band at Victo last year. An
> exception was "Charms of the Night Sky" (which I think you also mentioned as
> enjoying), but that's one of his least "jazzy" efforts, no?
Well, they play herbie Hancock and Nat Adderley.  That seems jazzy to me.

> Besides, most
> anything with Klucevsek on it transcends boundries.
Sure does!


> I like Black very much as a drummer. I don't (yet) hear him as a major
> force.
I'm pretty sure he will be.  His growth rate is startling.  Joey baron
already is.  After he showed up, everyone was taping their ride cymbals!

> I'd prefer to hear Randy Weston, Mal Waldron,
> etc. to any dozen Matt Shipp's. They've carved out their own beautiful niche
> _and_ were innovative themselves. I don't hear that in any younger jazz
> pianist.
I almost agree, except that I think something beautiful always carves its
own place in the world, because beauty is so damn needed.  I don't really
think of Mal Waldron as an innovator, although I think he's a wonderful
musician.  I think of Bill Evans as the kind of innovator I take you to
mean.


> Well, I've seen Zorn play since 1977, and lots of these guys and gals are
> into their 40's. Historically, most great art is made (or at least
> conceptualized) by folk in their 20's. Zorn's done some monumental work (for
> me: Spillane and Leng T'che, among others). I hear him treading mucho water
> these last few years.
I don't.  I hear him as less mercurial.  THE GIFT is really nice music, and
largely new territory for him.

> As I alluded to, though possible, I think that's far more unlikely these
> days than before when almost anyone can get 1000 Cd's printed and have it
> reviewed in WIRE, played on KCR or FMU, etc and gerneally get the word out.
It's not as easy as you think.  There are just so many records of that type
being pressed up in small numbers.  It's impossible to ever know how many.

>> Your words echo almost exactly those dixieland and swing guys who were
>> lamenting the coming of a form they considered not jazz -- be-bop.  Jazz
> is
>> less a what than a how, so it will endure.
>
> Well, we get into the thorny problem of defining terms here. You may
> consider AMM jazz, for example; I don't.
Do the guys in AMM consider themselves jazz guys? Does their audience?
I'm not defining anything for anyone.  But the player makes his own
decisions, then the consumer makes his own decisions.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: Odp: Odp: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 06 Feb 2002 18:44:06 -0800



> From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 02:58:34 +0100
> To: "Skip Heller" <[e-mail]>, "Alan Kayser"
> <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Odp: Odp: Odp: Zorn as Miles????????
>
> But don't you thinkj that there are some - not very direct - similiarities
> between Caine's mahler studio album and this mahavishnu?
 On the surface, yes.  But they're on two different paths in how they handle
the source material.

sh


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Chris Selvig <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jazz Death?
Date: 06 Feb 2002 19:46:06 -0800

AMM have specifically denied being jazz, in the liner notes for "To Hear
and Back Again."  I love AMM (and Drumm and Dorner, for that matter), but I
don't consider them jazz.  And I'm sorry if this was unclear, but I was not
positing James Carter and Joshua Redman as the state of the jazz art, or
even as major current figures.
    And yes, I realize the value and long gestation time of musical
hindsight, especially in defining important formal innovations, but can
anyone out there tell me they're hearing the equivalent of Coltrane, or
Parker, or Ellington, out there?
      Zach mentioned the problem of fragmentation of the audience, eg a
great straight player might be too tame for the free music audience, and
the Ken Burns crowd doesn't want to hear Mats Gustafsson, and maybe he's
right, though there's always David Murray's shotgun approach to counter that.
   Maybe this boils down to not wanting to kick myself for passing up some
genius when they pass through San Francisco and play for 30 people in a
living room.

Chris Selvig


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Chris Selvig <[e-mail]>
Subject: Jazz Death
Date: 06 Feb 2002 20:27:53 -0800

"Is innovation necessary for the stuff to feel and sound good?" - sometimes
yes, sometimes no, but that's what I meant when I asked if jazz is a dead
language - if even the best players are reproducing what has gone before,
they play jazz in the way that I write Homeric Greek.  (O.K., FAR better
than I write Homeric Greek, but you get my point).  Maybe there is less
difference between "Salt Peanuts" and Bach's Solo Cello Suites than I
think, and a good jazz performance is much the same as a good classical
performance, except the player has more variables to play with.  And yes, I
know there is contempo classical music with non-fixed elements, Mozart game
pieces, Renaissance organ music with improvisation, etc, but I'm speaking
of works with very specific instructions.
   My early education in jazz came from hanging around my high school's
jazz combo, who worked with a repertoire of pieces already 40-50 years old,
and listening to a scant few jazz records a mere 25-30 years old at the
time ("Kind of Blue," "Birth of the Cool," "Blue Train," and Mingus' "Live
at Antibes.")  And I love crude rock'n'roll like the Seeds, so I know
there's some indefinable element of Feel that keeps things interesting once
the form moves out of being innovative, but I'm still very much in love
with that moment where music just goes off the rails and the players are
lost and thrilled.  Or I'm lost and thrilled, as is the case when I see
Cecil Taylor live.  Unless he's doing poetry, in which case I'm just impatient.


Chris Selvig


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Chris Selvig <[e-mail]>
Subject: Jazz Death as health
Date: 06 Feb 2002 20:58:39 -0800

 From my buddy, Marty Linville: "lots of bad ideas remain utterly original
because nobody's dumb enough to do them."


Chris Selvig


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "William York" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Zorn's influence on Frisell
Date: 07 Feb 2002 05:06:40

This subject was mentioned in a recent digest. So, here is a Frisell quote
from the Godard/Spillane CD liner notes:

"John was looking at music froma completely different angle. I'd never heard
anything like it. These early experiences and especially these first
recordings with John changed the way I play/think/hear music."



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Cibo Matto
Date: 07 Feb 2002 01:42:40 -0500

Cibo Matto only have two records out: "Viva La Woman!" (more hip hop/sample
based) and "Stereotype A" (more funky/uptempo, live instrumentation). I
think they're both great records, and highly suggest both.

andrew


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: dick hyman
Date: 07 Feb 2002 08:31:33 +0100




> i have a couple of enoch light albums i enjoy more for the album art than
> the music.  my only hyman album is 'Moog: The Electric Eclectics of Dick
> Hyman', on Command records (same as enoch light).  It features such
> kwality klassiks as 'Tap Dance in the Memory Banks', 'Topless Dancers of
> Corfu', and my personal favorite (title, that is), 'The Legend of Johnny
> Pot'.  The album liner notes trumpet, "The Startling Sounds of the Brave
> New Music World!...singular, synthesized composition that heralds the
> future art of Sound-Expansion!"  I can't find a date on it anywhere, so i
> have no idea what year it heralds from. In the end, the music is not as
> good as, say, Perry and Kingsley's moog work (if 'good' is an adjective
> that can be used here).  And that's all I know about Dick Hyman.

Titles like that are fairly standard in the cross-over music of the late 50s
and early 60s. Dick Hyman released another album on Command Records called
"Fabulous: Dick Hyman at the Lowry Organ" that is pretty good. Dick Hyman,
as well as other organ fetishists of the era, has been a profound influence on
Mr.Bungle, especially in their transition from the debut album to the "Disco
Volante" era.

You should hear some of Anton LaVey's organ stuff...

Frankco



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Now vs.Then
Date: 02 Jan 2002 02:16:36 +0100

IMHO, The problem lies in great part in the simple statistical fact that
most of the viable potential artistic terrain was preempted, roughly
between 1950 and 1980, by the post-war generation(s), in keeping with
the new tools and freedoms offered to them by technology and society.

There are plenty, perhaps many more incredibly creative musicians right
now then there were in those times, but they were preceded in the
pathways of creation  now looking more like jammed highways of creation.

It's easier now in some ways because everything's readily available
(improvisation schools, video methods, recordings, internet, etc.) but
much harder in another way because the territory's been covered and one
can only be at best "the new so and so" or a respectable upholder of a
now venerable tradition (bop, free, r 'n b, punk, etc.)

This axiom is as true for rock as for jazz: nobody now can possibly have
the impact and novelty the Beatles, Dylan, Hendrix, James Brown, etc.
had in the 60's. All there seems to be is rehashing, with once in a
while an ephemerous"new so and so"(Prince, Beck, Oasis, etc.).

Ditto for contemporary classical: Cage, Feldman, Scelci, Ligeti,
Xenakis, Reich, Glass have each produced schoolfuls of bright
students/imitators condemned to live in the shadow of "the great
original".

Painting and film don't seem different in that respect: Talented
regurgitations of Duchamp, Pollock, Stella, Lichtenstein, or Welles,
Godard, Fellini seem to be the best we can hope for.

Zorn's great insight is that from his generation's historical position
there was no alternative but to be derivative, so let's dance with it!
Let that be the new paradigm of originality: there ain't none, and what
about it? (Strawinsky in his own way blew away the myth of originality
for his contemporaries as well). And may the influences be as diverse,
obscure or unexpected as possible (Stalling, Japan, Gainsbourg, Torah,
etc.) but always explicit: so that it be clear that we are not of the
old "original" mold, and even less a good little "wannabe".

What can come after that? No, I'm not a pessimist, nor a conveniantly
incurable nostalgic of some golden age. Great stuff will inevitably come
up, such is life, but probably not from the place we expect it to, such
is life.

DY.






-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Old & New
Date: 02 Jan 2002 02:40:58 +0100

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IMHO, The problem lies in great part in the simple statistical fact that
most of the viable potential artistic terrain was preempted, roughly
between 1950 and 1980, by the post-war generation(s), in keeping with
the new tools and freedoms offered to them by technology and society.

There are plenty, perhaps many more incredibly creative musicians right
now then there were in those times, but they were preceded in the
pathways of creation  now looking more like jammed highways of creation.

It's easier now in some ways because everything's readily available
(improvisation schools, video methods, recordings, internet, etc.) but
much harder in another way because the territory's been covered and one
can only be at best "the new so and so" or a respectable upholder of a
now venerable tradition (bop, free, r 'n b, punk, etc.)

This axiom is as true for rock as for jazz: nobody now can possibly have
the impact and novelty the Beatles, Dylan, Hendrix, James Brown, etc.
had in the 60's. All there seems to be is rehashing, with once in a
while an ephemerous"new so and so"(Prince, Beck, Oasis, etc.).

Ditto for contemporary classical: Cage, Feldman, Scelci, Ligeti,
Xenakis, Reich, Glass have each produced schoolfuls of bright
students/imitators condemned to live in the shadow of "the great
original".

Painting and film don't seem different in that respect: Talented
regurgitations of Duchamp, Pollock, Stella, Lichtenstein, or Welles,
Godard, Fellini seem to be the best we can hope for.

Zorn's great insight is that from his generation's historical position
there was no alternative but to be derivative, so let's dance with it!
Let that be the new paradigm of originality: there ain't none, and what
about it? (Strawinsky in his own way blew away the myth of originality
for his contemporaries as well). And may the influences be as diverse,
obscure or unexpected as possible (Stalling, Japan, Gainsbourg, Torah,
etc.) but always explicit: so that it be clear that we are not of the
old "original" mold, and even less a good little "wannabe".

What can come after that? No, I'm not a pessimist, nor a conveniantly
incurable nostalgic of some golden age. Great stuff will inevitably come
up, such is life, but probably not from the place we expect it to, such
is life.

DY.






-


--------------B8AF82B89EAB6CEB0EAEB994--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Now vs.Then
Date: 07 Feb 2002 12:01:16 +0100

Il s'agit d'un message multivolet au format MIME.
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Very appropriately, my computer's date being out to lunch, i'm sending
this thing again with hopefully the correct one...
sorry for the repetition.
DY.

--------------1A37CC25C37F2BDA223DB31B
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
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Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

IMHO, The problem lies in great part in the simple statistical fact that
most of the viable potential artistic terrain was preempted, roughly
between 1950 and 1980, by the post-war generation(s), in keeping with
the new tools and freedoms offered to them by technology and society.

There are plenty, perhaps many more incredibly creative musicians right
now then there were in those times, but they were preceded in the
pathways of creation  now looking more like jammed highways of creation.

It's easier now in some ways because everything's readily available
(improvisation schools, video methods, recordings, internet, etc.) but
much harder in another way because the territory's been covered and one
can only be at best "the new so and so" or a respectable upholder of a
now venerable tradition (bop, free, r 'n b, punk, etc.)

This axiom is as true for rock as for jazz: nobody now can possibly have
the impact and novelty the Beatles, Dylan, Hendrix, James Brown, etc.
had in the 60's. All there seems to be is rehashing, with once in a
while an ephemerous"new so and so"(Prince, Beck, Oasis, etc.).

Ditto for contemporary classical: Cage, Feldman, Scelci, Ligeti,
Xenakis, Reich, Glass have each produced schoolfuls of bright
students/imitators condemned to live in the shadow of "the great
original".

Painting and film don't seem different in that respect: Talented
regurgitations of Duchamp, Pollock, Stella, Lichtenstein, or Welles,
Godard, Fellini seem to be the best we can hope for.

Zorn's great insight is that from his generation's historical position
there was no alternative but to be derivative, so let's dance with it!
Let that be the new paradigm of originality: there ain't none, and what
about it? (Strawinsky in his own way blew away the myth of originality
for his contemporaries as well). And may the influences be as diverse,
obscure or unexpected as possible (Stalling, Japan, Gainsbourg, Torah,
etc.) but always explicit: so that it be clear that we are not of the
old "original" mold, and even less a good little "wannabe".

What can come after that? No, I'm not a pessimist, nor a conveniantly
incurable nostalgic of some golden age. Great stuff will inevitably come
up, such is life, but probably not from the place we expect it to, such
is life.

DY.






--------------1A37CC25C37F2BDA223DB31B--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ricardo Reis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Kubrik, piano
Date: 07 Feb 2002 12:20:41 +0000 (WET)


    Hi! could someone shade some info on that fantastic and marvellous
irritating piano piece on Kubrik's last film, "eyes wide shut"?

            greets,
                 Ricardo Reis

                "Non Serviam"


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Vincent Kargatis / Anne Larson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jazz Death
Date: 07 Feb 2002 14:32:07 +0200

> From: "Brian Olewnick" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: Jazz Death?
>
> Skip asked:
> > Also, I see some really incredible young players/thinkers who are
> > building their own vocabulary in the music. Jim Black leaps to mind.
>
> I like Black very much as a drummer. I don't (yet) hear him as a major
> force.

I also wouldn't yet label Black a "major force" (despite his astounding
drumming).  I do, however, hold up the ALASNOAXIS album as one argument
against using the term "historical" to describe the jazz genre.  I think
it's a great album, and think its strengths derive from successful synthesis
rather than innovation - but in any case, it sounds to me totally
contemporary (as in ahistorical - it doesn't sound like something that could
have come from a previous period in jazz), and "jazz" seems to me without a
doubt to be the best descriptive label for it.
--
Vincent Kargatis
np: Dave Holland - NOT FOR NOTHIN' (ECM)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Yves Dewulf <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Kubrik, piano
Date: 07 Feb 2002 14:01:42 +0100 (CET)

>
>       Hi! could someone shade some info on that fantastic and marvellous
> irritating piano piece on Kubrik's last film, "eyes wide shut"?
>
It's part of "musica ricercata" by Gyorgy Ligeti. Worth checking out!


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Kubrik, piano
Date: 07 Feb 2002 14:06:29 +0100

Ricardo Reis a =E9crit :

>         Hi! could someone shade some info on that fantastic and marvellous
> irritating piano piece on Kubrik's last film, "eyes wide shut"?
>
>                         greets,
>                                  Ricardo Reis
>
>                                 "Non Serviam"
>

It's n=B0 2, from Gy=F6rgy Ligeti's "Musical ricercata" (1951-53)=2E
N=B0 1 just uses one pich =2E N=B02 uses 2, n=B0 3, 3 etc=2E all to 12=2E
A more than recommendable recording is "Ligeti, Works for piano: Etudes,
Musica Ricercata" by (top notch interpreter) Pierre-Laurent Aimard, on Sony
Classical=2E

DY=2E


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ari <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Kubrik, piano
Date: 07 Feb 2002 14:50:01 +0100

> Ricardo Reis a =E9crit :
>=20
>> Hi! could someone shade some info on that fantastic and marvellous
>> irritating piano piece on Kubrik's last film, "eyes wide shut"?
>>=20
>> greets,
>> Ricardo Reis
>>=20
>> "Non Serviam"
>>=20
>=20
> It's n=B0 2, from Gy=F6rgy Ligeti's "Musical ricercata" (1951-53).
> N=B0 1 just uses one pich . N=B02 uses 2, n=B0 3, 3 etc. all to 12.
> A more than recommendable recording is "Ligeti, Works for piano: Etudes,
> Musica Ricercata" by (top notch interpreter) Pierre-Laurent Aimard, on So=
ny
> Classical.

Ligeti made also an adaptation for barrel organ!


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: frisell's sound part 17
Date: 08 Feb 2002 01:10:55 +1100

Hey, this has probably been asked a million times before but I've just
totally forgotten... what does Mr. Frisell use to get that 'backwards
guitar' tone? And while we're at it, what delay unit does he use?

Thanks,
Julian.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Andy Marks <[e-mail]>
Subject: Messages out of order?
Date: 07 Feb 2002 06:21:01 -0800 (PST)

Is it just me or do others receive zorn-list
messages out of order? Like with that last
Kubrick message, I received the response and
then a couple minutes later the original message.

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Jazz Death?
Date: 07 Feb 2002 09:16:33 -0500



Chris Selwig dared to ask:

>    OK, I'm going to get in trouble for this, but I'm going to stick my
> digital foot in my virtual mouth and ask:  is jazz a dead language at this
> point, or can we really look forward to major formal innovations in the
> future?


"Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny"  - Frank Zappa (early 70's i thnk)



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Now vs.Then
Date: 07 Feb 2002 06:32:33 -0800

I think Duncan's commentary is right on the mark.  Also I want to add
age may have something to do with too.  I am in my 40's and lived
pretty much through the 'culture' of the 60's, 70's and so forth.
And remembered thinking 'wow this is so new and different.'

The artists who affected me that way when I first heard it are The
Beatles, Hendrix, Velvets, Miles Davis (my dad played 'Brew' really
loud and I thought it was the weirdest record ever), Roxy Music,
Bowie and Bo Diddley among others.  Art and cineama - Warhol,
Duchamp, Godard, Ozu,etc.   And there are sure are more examples -
but I don't have those feelings for new artists.  It doesn't mean I
don't like current artists (I do), but I for sure don't have that
'wow never seen this before, this is amazing' type of feeling anymore.
--
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ari <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Messages out of order?
Date: 07 Feb 2002 15:33:20 +0100

> From: Andy Marks <[e-mail]>
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 06:21:01 -0800 (PST)
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Messages out of order?
>
> Is it just me or do others receive zorn-list
> messages out of order? Like with that last
> Kubrick message, I received the response and
> then a couple minutes later the original message.

I receive messages that were posted in 1904. There must be some kind of a
delay on this list. Don't know if it's at random ;-)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Sick of Miles
Date: 07 Feb 2002 16:06:47 +0100 (CET)

Hi,

Skip, some days ago you sent a welcome message to a
newcomer which I found enlighteningly ironic and
perfectly justifiable. In it, you questioned the
open-mindedness of this list in some particular cases.

However, your reply to my thoughts on Miles vs. Zorn
doesn't seem to me coherent in relation to the
contents in that message of yours.

Considering me a "silly", "damn kid" just due to the
fact that I dislike DAvis shouldn't be correct at
first sight. There are many ways to say things without
the need to fall into boring pollitical correctness
and keeping, at the same time, politeness.

I hate some attitudes by people who MUST adore a
specific artist because he/she is considered an icon.
I have never done it and will never do it- although I
put my "integrity" at risk.

I hope this doesn't start a stupid exchange like those
a couple of weeks ago.

Best,

EfrΘn del Valle


_______________________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Messenger
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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #755
Date: 07 Feb 2002 15:30:05 +0000


The esteemed "Brian Olewnick" ranted like a loony:

I do think that there has been extremely little of great value produced in
the last few years that any reasonable listener would term "jazz" and that
what _has_ been achieved has been by musicians 40 years old or older...But I
don't see _any_ jazz musicians in their 20's doing beautiful, innovative
work. To be sure, we're up to our knees in fine jazz _musicians_, but not,
imho, great jazz creators. I've said it before, I'll say it again: where's
the current equivalent, in jazz, of Braxton in 1968 (at 23, when he recorded
'For Alto'), Roscoe Mitchell in 1966, Mingus in 1959, Taylor in 1955, etc.?

brian -- i wish i was gonna out'n'out fight you on this, but i guess i'm
not. still, i think there is some hope.

but first, a standard set by four (braxton, mingus, mitchell, taylor)
all-time geniuses is a little high. one could easily construct such an
argument to say "surely painting is no longer a viable art form."

nevertheless, yeah, we ain't in a heyday. but there are names i'm excited
about, moreso than in most of the 90s.

when i moved to nyc in 1993, i was pretty much always the youngest person in
audience at the old knit (27 at the time) and guaranteed younger than anyone
on stage. that's no longer the case, which in no way could be merely a
product of my getting older (september, november). there are a lot of
players in town doing very good music, at least some of whom will be adding
something considerable to the canon. names?
-ori kaplan, especially his percussion ensemble. the record on kfw is nice,
and they can be a fairly chilling band live. and it features...
-andrew bemkey. one of the great traditions of pianists is post-monk. (and
not monk-redux -- misha m being obvious, abrams at times, others). bemkey is
a remarkable musician, can play the fuck out of monk, can approach some
mingus/ra as a composer. why he doesn't get more attention i know not. that
downbeat TDWR bullshit? that should be andrew's middle name.
-tom abbs is a phenom on bass. he does some nice composing, and as an
organizer/scenemaker, he's fairly important (jump arts).
-susie ibarra. i'm not sold on the 'new music' approach of the last couple
years, but only cause i gots a fire in my soul that she's fanning less these
days. but nothing but respect. she's huge.
-assif tsahar. great player, yeah, but the zoanthropic orchestra (new cd on
the way) stuff really shows the mine he's working.
-charles waters. gold sparkle band(s) are great hard jazz. his funky stuff
is ok. but as a jazz chamber composer, he's quite interesting. saw him last
week (sax and flute/piano/acc guitar/trumpet and bass clarinet), and other
like ensembles in the past.
-andrew barker is the shit.

that's just what leaps to mind.

given alla dat:

>It might be a simple matter of there being no stones left to overturn.

true enough. the thing about jazz is it sounds jazzy. i agree that amm ain't
jazz, and there's stuff more to my liking being done in that vein (please
don't ask me what vein that is) than the sons'n'daughters'o'satchmo. still,
joyous music abounds, olewnick.

cheers.

_________________________________________________________________
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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: cripes, i can't believe i'm posting bout bjork
Date: 07 Feb 2002 15:32:13 +0000

ok, respect enough for her i guess. songs i've heard sound pretty good, but
never felt quite drawn to explore.

but yesterday i read here that she is the most beautiful human on earth (or
some such). that fish-eyed dwarf? i was, well, surprised.

but that was before last night. she's radiant.

_________________________________________________________________
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http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: cripes, i can't believe i'm posting bout bjork
Date: 07 Feb 2002 16:43:20 +0100 (CET)

HI,
> but yesterday i read here that she is the most
> beautiful human on earth (or
> some such). that fish-eyed dwarf? i was, well,
> surprised.

I think it made reference to her as a person, not her
appeareance if I understood the right way.

EfrΘn del Valle

_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re. Jazz Death
Date: 07 Feb 2002 10:46:54 -0500

Any discussion of Where is the next innovation?, etc., is dangerous
ground.

Consider that there are large number of serious jazz fans (they assail
me constantly so I know they're out there) who believe that jazz
innovation ended sometime in the '30s. Obviously, no one on this list
shares that belief.

By the same token, those who believe that innovation died with Coltrane,
Mingus and Monk, or will die with Taylor, Rollins, et.al., are planting
their flag in a particular era and missing out on the new discoveries
and fresh new approaches that I hear all the time.

Personally, I believe that the ascendancy of many of the musicians of
the '50s and '60s to iconic stature had a lot to do with the times.

No, there will never be another Davis or Taylor. But Davis and Taylor
weren't Bolden and Armstrong. Move on and keep your ears open.

James Hale


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Theo Klaase <[e-mail]>
Subject: blind idiot god
Date: 07 Feb 2002 07:48:51 -0800 (PST)

    What is the best release to start with for the
band BLIND IDIOT GOD...?



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mark Saleski <[e-mail]>
Subject: Future Distribution of Music
Date: 07 Feb 2002 11:04:49 -0500

skip h:
>So's media attention.  You can bet your bottom $ that there are guys doing
>exactly what you crave, and probably lots of 'em, but that they're nowhere
>near an effective publicist.

this made me think of of a recent article i read about cdbaby.com. with things like the industry's moves against napster, new cd encryption scheme's, minor (i wish it was major) publicity about the 'trap' of most major label recording contracts, etc.....i've been wondering what people think about the future of distribution setups like cdbaby.

i think it's a cool thing mostly because it keeps the major labels completely out of the loop. on the other hand, maybe the exposure will always be limited to folks like me who are always rooting around for something new.

mark

--
Mark Saleski - [e-mail] | http://www.foliage.com/~marks
"Music is spiritual. The music business is not." - Van Morrison



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: dick hyman
Date: 07 Feb 2002 11:20:20 -0500 (EST)

All:

Hyman is a studio musician cum traditional jazz guy
who worked every part of the music biz from being the
music director of the Arthur Godfrey radio (!) show to
playing modernistic jazz.

During the 1950s he had some success under the
pseudonym Knuckles O'Toole and turned out some
corny-stride-ragtime albums. He has offered his
version of different jazz styles for projects like
Leonard Feather's Encyclopedia of Jazz and live
performances where he tries to show the styles of
everyone from Scott Joplin to Cecil Taylor. He also
arranged music for some of Woody Allen's films.

Having studied with Teddy Wilson, he's most
comfortable in a swing-mainstream jazz piano style and
has played countless so-called jazz parties,
Dixie-swing sessions on CD and is a proficient solo
pianist. If the local straight jazz/piano bar in your
burg specializes in bringing in the type of guys who
played with the big bands or in the first Dixie
revival -- in the late 1940s before Wynton -- he may
very well be in its line up.

Ken Waxman

--- Whit Schonbein <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> i have a couple of enoch light albums i enjoy more
> for the album art than
> the music.  my only hyman album is 'Moog: The
> Electric Eclectics of Dick
> Hyman', on Command records I can't find a date
> on it anywhere, so i
> have no idea what year it heralds from. In the end,
> the music is not as
> good as, say, Perry and Kingsley's moog work (if
> 'good' is an adjective
> that can be used here).  And that's all I know about
> Dick Hyman.
>
> end transmission.....whit
>
>
> -
>


=====
Ken Waxman
[e-mail]
www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos

______________________________________________________________________
Web-hosting solutions for home and business! http://website.yahoo.ca

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "John Thomas"<[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Misha, Monk redux
Date: 07 Feb 2002 10:29:35 -0600



> From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <[e-mail]>
> - -andrew bemkey. one of the great traditions of pianists is
> post-monk. (and
> not monk-redux -- misha m being obvious, abrams at times,
> others).
>

I am not sure what you meant here, but Misha M's playing is not
all Monk redux. It can be at times, but his free improv playing
to my ears is an extension of Monk's playing.

Some other Dutch pianists like Guus Janssen and Cor Fuhler's
playing can also be seen to some extent as extensions of Monk,
though there are a lot of other things that go into their playing
than just Monk.

I look forward to checking out this Terry Adams fellow from NRBQ
in terms of his playing that shows some Monk influence.

Some other players that come to mind that build on Monk and Misha...
Pandelis Karayorgis, David Haney, Per Henrik Wallin.

John

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Frank Kuehn <[e-mail]>
Subject: My Dream NY Downtown Touring Fesival
Date: 07 Feb 2002 09:30:47 -0700

I've had this impossible dream rolling around in my head for awhile:

A collection of a dozen or so NY downtown favorites coming to my
town(Taos NM) and yours, playing in nearly as many conglomerations of 3,
4, 6, 8,12... over a period of a week or so, demonstrating not just the
importance of that scene to a world that hardly knows it exists, but
also the wonder of the many many ways a group of localized musicians can
mix it up.

The idea that a musician can be part of several full-blown projects at
once is something smaller musical communities could take to heart.
Local working bands often settle into a comfortable rut, when they (and
their audience) could be stretched in wonderful and frightening ways if
there was less anxiety about being in two (or five) bands AT ONCE, not
all of them necessarily commercial ventures.

And now, with the extra attention on the Big Apple, might be the one big
chance to get folks out to see groups they've never heard of, just
because they're from New Yawk, New Yawk, one hell of a town.

Just a dream,

Dan

PS - and who would be on the bus?

NP: Sun Ra and his Intergalactic Research Orchestra - Black Myth/Out in Space
NR: Marion Meade - Dorothy Parker: What Fresh Hell is This?

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Now vs.Then
Date: 07 Feb 2002 17:15:10 +0100


> What can come after that? No, I'm not a pessimist, nor a conveniantly
> incurable nostalgic of some golden age. Great stuff will inevitably come
> up, such is life, but probably not from the place we expect it to, such
> is life.
>
> DY.
>
I was relieved to read this upbeat conclusion from you, after so many all
too broad generalizations on postmodern culture. Reading from all the open
doorly examples you give, it seems very unlikely, that you will find new
creations. Just try to be open.

The sixities stars were all made big by their own baby boom generation.
Please try to look at 'now', and think about how Dylan and the Beatles were
never of any use for the real avantgarde of the sixties. So aren't Beck or
Oasis. It's your point of reference that matters.

Regards, Remco



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jazz Death?
Date: 07 Feb 2002 17:39:48 +0100

> If it's not dead, it's on a resuscitator. I've argued this point here and
> elsewhere for a number of years.

Great! You might be very comfortable in telling this story for the rest of
your life!

(sorry for this, but I just HAD to punch that one in)

> But all of these folk are my age (47) and older. I don't see _any_ jazz
> musicians in their 20's doing beautiful, innovative work. To be sure,
we're
> up to our knees in fine jazz _musicians_, but not, imho, great jazz
> creators. I've said it before, I'll say it again: where's the current
> equivalent, in jazz, of Braxton in 1968 (at 23, when he recorded 'For
> Alto'), Roscoe Mitchell in 1966, Mingus in 1959, Taylor in 1955, etc.?

Let me take the freedom to tell you something about yourself: being 47 of
age, means that you very likely weren't there, when all these (what you
consider) 'big happenings' in jazz took place. In fact, none of the great
names you mention, did their important stuff when you were, say, in your
twenties (that would be 1975-1985, the rise of neobop a.o. things).Could it
be that you aren't where it's at IN THE NOW????

You might have heard Taylor's 1955 recordings in 1970, when it changed your
life at fifteen. Cool, so did I!!!! It's just a very free assumption, from
my side, nothing wrong with listening to great old records!

The Taylor album was fifteen years old in 1970. Going at that approximate
rate, which is very common to all consumers of modern art, the really great
art of 2002 will only be discovered or acknowledged in the year of 2017.

Exaggerating big time here, but I hope you see the point. BTW I couldn't
care less if  I was  to miss the new this or that, I just enjoy music, and
see live music as much as I can. I saw a Cecil Taylor concert once, that
sucked so hard. Man, I am glad I have seen lesser gods playing cool stuff.


> might be some toiling away in total obscurity, but obscurity is harder and
> harder to achieve these days.
>
You just can't know this, can you? Typing someone's name in a search engine,
will only work when you know his/ her name...

Regards, Remco



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Frank Kuehn <[e-mail]>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Bj=F6rk?=
Date: 07 Feb 2002 09:34:20 -0700

Oh, I forgot, I just like to say Bj=F6rk.=20

Bj=F6rk, Bj=F6rk, Bj=F6rk, Bj=F6rk, Bj=F6rk, Bj=F6rk, Bj=F6rk, Bj=F6rk.

Dan

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE:_Bj=F6rk?=
Date: 07 Feb 2002 11:26:20 -0500

saying it like that always reminds me of the Swedish Chef from the Muppet
Show.
sean

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Dan Frank Kuehn
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 11:34 AM


Oh, I forgot, I just like to say Bj÷rk.

Bj÷rk, Bj÷rk, Bj÷rk, Bj÷rk, Bj÷rk, Bj÷rk, Bj÷rk, Bj÷rk.

Dan

-



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jazz Death?
Date: 07 Feb 2002 11:37:32 -0500 (EST)

Chris (and others):

Don't "pas up some genius when they pass through San
Francisco and play for 30 people in a living room",
you may never get a chance to see them again.

I had a grade 10 algebra exam, so missed seeing
Richard Farina the one time he played Montreal. I was
late, or he cancelled or the club folded the times I
tried to see Cannonball Adderley (a real piss off,
n'est-ce pas, Skip), I didn't see Marion Brown because
I couldn't get out to an all night club and when I
first came to Toronto I missed Vic Dickenson because a
friend had to drag me to see some second rate rock
band.

Having just come back from a drive (from Toronto) to
see Carlo Actis Dato -- a great Italian multi-woodwind
player -- I'd encourage *everyone* to see as many
folks as you can. You never know when you won't be
able to see them again. And don't worry about the low
attendance. I one attended a local jazz concert where
the band members outnumbered the audience --and it was
only a trio.

Ken Waxman



--- Chris Selvig <[e-mail]> wrote:
    Maybe this boils down to not wanting to kick
> myself for passing up some
> genius when they pass through San Francisco and play
> for 30 people in a
> living room.
>
> Chris Selvig



=====
Ken Waxman
[e-mail]
www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos

______________________________________________________
Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jonas Leddington <[e-mail]>
Subject: Thoughts from a neophyte -- Zorn, Coltrane, innovation etc.
Date: 07 Feb 2002 11:55:58 -0500

Prior to my introduction to Zorn at his recent performance at the Miller
Theatre in New York, I would listen with envy and sadness to, say, the
unrestrained, impromptu whoops of the audience in the Dizzy/Parker/Powell
recording "Jazz at Massey Hall".  In "Perdido", Charlie and Dizzy go at it,
the crowd can't help themselves, they're hollering, they're entirely swept
away.

Well, listening to Masada for the very first time there at the Miller, I
said to my friend, "This is it.  Yes yes yes - a chaotic, rapturous,
far-reaching, inclusive and utterly imposing music, a music for our time."
And since, that statement has been affirmed by explorations and expansions
prompted by the info. on this list: Kristallnacht, the String Quartets, my
first ventures to Tonic, introductions to the whole downtown scene...  I
can't speak to how innovative his music is, only to how visceral was its
effect on me.  And I had been looking for such a music for some time.  (It's
almost like this stuff is deliberately hidden from view).

As for historical place, it's worth remembering that while most everybody
knows who Coltrane is and hails him as a musician, I find that the great
majority of people still don't (I don't want to say "can't") stomach his
music.  It's not like Kind of Blue, which plays nicely and unobtrusively in
the background at cocktail parties.  We'll see what happens with Zorn in
that context.  I imagine that the history of our music, the music of our
time, will be written by very knowledgeable, devoted music lovers, much like
the people on this list, a fact that bodes well for JZ.  Spoken about or
acknowledged by many, listened to by few?  (As for why that's the case,
well, whatever.)

Also, for discussion: perhaps innovation is itself tired as a criteria?  Can
we or should we begin to evaluate and historicize art, music, whatnot using
different criteria?  Could we say: music as a form of working on oneself?

Regards,
Jonas


I think Duncan's commentary is right on the mark.  Also I want to add
age may have something to do with too.  I am in my 40's and lived
pretty much through the 'culture' of the 60's, 70's and so forth.
And remembered thinking 'wow this is so new and different.'

The artists who affected me that way when I first heard it are The
Beatles, Hendrix, Velvets, Miles Davis (my dad played 'Brew' really
loud and I thought it was the weirdest record ever), Roxy Music,
Bowie and Bo Diddley among others.  Art and cineama - Warhol,
Duchamp, Godard, Ozu,etc.   And there are sure are more examples -
but I don't have those feelings for new artists.  It doesn't mean I
don't like current artists (I do), but I for sure don't have that
'wow never seen this before, this is amazing' type of feeling anymore.
- --
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jason tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn's Pants
Date: 07 Feb 2002 08:56:20 -0800 (PST)

Zorn's funky rope belts are also great accessories. Arent the belts
some relation to his religious dedication?

I always dig on his bright colored tshirts with hebrew characters down
the front.

style is for celebration

--- Duke Wong <[e-mail]> wrote:
> Personally I have seen the following colored cargo motifs worn by Mr.
> Zorn:
>
> green, gray-white, red, yellow-green, blue
>
> When asked how many pairs of such pants he owns, I believe the answer
> was
> around 10. I guess the man likes his cargo camos.
>
> Let's see which ones he'll don for tomorrow night's show. My bet's on
> the
> yellow ones.
>
> -- Duke
>
> np: Roberto Juan Rodriguez, El Danzon de Moises
>
>
> ------------------------------
> Second (and a trivial
> matter I might add) is that I first saw John Zorn live about 2 years
> ago.Hewas wearing camouflage pants.  In the next 8 or so times I saw
> him, he
> had the same pants on.  About a year ago, I saw a picture of him in
> the NY
> Times and he had the pants on again.  I just looked at the pics on
> the
> website recommended of the Naked City live from 1990.  Guess what?
> He is
> wearing thepants.
> ------------------------------
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
> -
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Master and Margarita?
Date: 07 Feb 2002 11:56:10 EST

Has anyone gotten this recording by Simon Nabatov?  If so, any impressions?
Is it worth the $30 price?  The players (Mark Feldman, Herb Robertson, Mark
Helias and Tom Rainey) are some of my faves.  I should probably just purchase
on faith.

Thanks in advance for any helpful descriptions/opinions,
Tom

______________________________________________________________________
Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately,
and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music."

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: frisell's sound part 17
Date: 07 Feb 2002 11:29:57 -0500

> Hey, this has probably been asked a million times before but I've just
> totally forgotten... what does Mr. Frisell use to get that 'backwards
> guitar' tone? And while we're at it, what delay unit does he use?

Many pedals now allow you to play backwards in real-time- the best one of
these is the Line 6 "delay modeler." ( www.line6.com ). Basically, it
emulates all of those classic analogue and tape-based delays, like the
Roland Space Echo and Echoplex, as well as throwing in a looper and the
ability to play backwards in real-time........very nice.

For Frisell....maybe he uses something like that, or layers actual reversed
tapes of his lead playing. It's very easy to do digitally.

adnrew


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: bjork (or the dangers of keyboards)
Date: 07 Feb 2002 12:13:15 EST


In a message dated 2/7/02 11:34:02 AM, [e-mail] writes:

>Oh, I forgot, I just like to say Bj=F6rk.=20
>
>
>
>Bj=F6rk, Bj=F6rk, Bj=F6rk, Bj=F6rk, Bj=F6rk, Bj=F6rk, Bj=F6rk, Bj=F6rk.

ladies and boys,

    beware!  this is what can happen when you suddenly figure out the macro=20
for an O with an umlatt over it!  it is happening all over the nation, all=20
over the WORLD, and no one knows what to do...  <screams and runs away while=
=20
a theremin blasts crazy tritones>

>
>



-----
[ .n o t h i n g  i s  w h a t  i s  s a i d. ]

.k a t e  p e t e r s o n.
.c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r.
<A HREF=3D"http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.icefoundation.org">http://www.icefoundation.org</A> =20
(roundtable)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: bjork (or the dangers of keyboards)
Date: 08 Feb 2002 04:32:29 +1100

ah, the 'humorous response' macro. how witty...

<<    beware!  this is what can happen when you suddenly figure out the
macro
for an O with an umlatt over it!  it is happening all over the nation, all
over the WORLD, and no one knows what to do...  <screams and runs away while
a theremin blasts crazy tritones> >>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sick of Miles
Date: 07 Feb 2002 09:56:35 -0800



> From: Efr=E9n del Valle <[e-mail]>
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 16:06:47 +0100 (CET)
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Sick of Miles
>=20
> I hate some attitudes by people who MUST adore a
> specific artist because he/she is considered an icon.
> I have never done it and will never do it- although I
> put my "integrity" at risk.

"Adore" has nothing to do with it.  Accepting that that person was
influential and is still so is a different story.  You remind me of me when
I was about 17, although at that point my ire was more about people telling
me that I absolutely had to love Pat Martino (it was Philly and I am a
guitar player). =20

And, incidentally, I didn't call you silly.  I said Zorn would likely slapo
you silly.  And the "damn kid" comment was meant humorously.  I will no
longer take for granted that you have a sense of humor.

sh


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Future Distribution of Music
Date: 07 Feb 2002 09:59:47 -0800



> From: Mark Saleski <[e-mail]>
> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:04:49 -0500
> To: zorn <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Future Distribution of Music
>
> ....i've been wondering what people think about the future of distribution
> setups like cdbaby.
>
> i think it's a cool thing mostly because it keeps the major labels completely
> out of the loop. on the other hand, maybe the exposure will always be limited
> to folks like me who are always rooting around for something new.

Basic bottom line -- not all types of music are meant to reach a large
audience.  Once the artists and the audience accept this, you can see a
thing like CDBABY as conduit to a specific if small crowd who will seek out
a specific thing.

sh


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Now vs.Then
Date: 07 Feb 2002 10:01:32 -0800



> From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 17:15:10 +0100
> To: <[e-mail]>, "Zorn List" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: Now vs.Then
>
> The sixities stars were all made big by their own baby boom generation.
> Please try to look at 'now', and think about how Dylan and the Beatles were
> never of any use for the real avantgarde of the sixties.

I think Carla Bley would take you to task on this, with regards to the
Beatles and their impact on ESCALATOR OVER THE HILL.  And that's only one
record.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Thoughts from a neophyte -- Zorn, Coltrane, innovation etc.
Date: 07 Feb 2002 10:03:13 -0800



> From: Jonas Leddington <[e-mail]>
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:55:58 -0500
> To: "'[e-mail]'" <[e-mail]>
> Cc: Jonas Leddington <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Thoughts from a neophyte -- Zorn, Coltrane, innovation etc.
>
> Also, for discussion: perhaps innovation is itself tired as a criteria?

YES!!!!!!

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: frisell's sound part 17.5
Date: 07 Feb 2002 18:14:52 +0000

>From: "Andrew" <[e-mail]>

>Many pedals now allow you to play backwards in real-time- the best one of
>these is the Line 6 "delay modeler." ( www.line6.com ).
>For Frisell....maybe he uses something like that, or layers actual reversed
>tapes of his lead playing. It's very easy to do digitally.

He originally used the ElectroHarmonix Memory Man  pedal which was an
analogue delay device that also played backwards loops, don't know if if
he'd still use it,  it's one of the effects the Line 6 can copy...

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Doug Tapia" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: frisell's sound part 17.5
Date: 07 Feb 2002 11:24:33 -0700

still using the electroharmonix on top of a barstool last i saw him. . .

fwiw,

-Doug Tapia
www.roger-hq.com

----------

>>Many pedals now allow you to play backwards in real-time- the best one of
>>these is the Line 6 "delay modeler." ( www.line6.com ).
>>For Frisell....maybe he uses something like that, or layers actual reversed
>>tapes of his lead playing. It's very easy to do digitally.
>
> He originally used the ElectroHarmonix Memory Man  pedal which was an
> analogue delay device that also played backwards loops, don't know if if
> he'd still use it,  it's one of the effects the Line 6 can copy...

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: mishamonk
Date: 07 Feb 2002 18:58:28 +0000


>Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:29:35 -0600
>From: "John Thomas"<[e-mail]>
>Subject: RE: Misha, Monk redux
>
> > From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <[e-mail]>
> > - -andrew bemkey. one of the great traditions of pianists is
> > post-monk. (and
> > not monk-redux -- misha m being obvious, abrams at times,
> > others).
> >
>
>I am not sure what you meant here, but Misha M's playing is not
>all Monk redux. It can be at times, but his free improv playing
>to my ears is an extension of Monk's playing.

sorry -- poor wording on my part. i loves misha. i meant to draw a line
between post-monk and monk-redux, with misha being the former, an extension
of, not a retread.

kurt


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "David Beardsley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: bjork (or the dangers of keyboards)
Date: 07 Feb 2002 14:12:34 -0500

----- Original Message -----

<screams and runs away while
a theremin blasts crazy tritones>

How are you getting more than on note out of a tritone?


* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "David Beardsley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: bjork (or the dangers of keyboards)
Date: 07 Feb 2002 14:17:36 -0500


----- Original Message -----


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[e-mail]>
>
> <screams and runs away while
> a theremin blasts crazy tritones>
>
> How are you getting more than on note out of a tritone?

Duh! What I really wanted to ask: How are you getting more
than one note out of a theremin? You can only play on note at a time.


* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
Date: 07 Feb 2002 11:54:29 -0800


On Tue, 05 Feb 2002 19:05:57 -0800  Skip Heller wrote:
>
>
>
> > From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
>
> > Reading my statement above I realize that it could be misunderstood. By "not
> > buying it anymore", I meant the argument that Skip was pushing (people being
> > clueless, illustrated by the Mark Twain quote).
>
> I was not referring to people being stupid, but rather that the powers that
> be intentionally keep them from knowing what goes on behind the doors closed
> to those without money or power.  I wonder what makes you think I hate
> people so much.

Yeah, and I was using words like condescending and patronizing. You seem to
make a difference, I feel yours is the polite way to say it.

Condescending and patronizing are not about hating people, just feeling a
little bit superior... You know, the typical and good wisher "I know what is
good for you" attitude, and the refusal to admit that people might have good
reasons (besides ignorance, cluelessness, brainwashing by big media, etc) to
not buy an artistic product.

And again the usual fallacy of people involved in obscure/marginal activities
being genuinely puzzled at the fact that the world does not share their
priorities...

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: alasnoaxis
Date: 07 Feb 2002 11:56:48 -0800


On Tue, 05 Feb 2002 18:43:33 -0500  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> >On the other side, I kind of like him in contexts where he is a guest (like
> >with Laswell, of a great Painkiller show at the KF).
>
> Was that the show where part of his solo was sticking the end of the guitar
> chord in his mouth? The one where Mick Harris tried to get Lee Dorrian to
> come up out of the audience and join them \\\"for old times\\\' sake,\\\" to
>  no avail?

I don' think so. The concert I attended was the one part of the 40th birthday
month at the KF.

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Now vs.Then (to Remko)
Date: 07 Feb 2002 21:05:34 +0100



Remco Takken a =E9crit :

> Reading from all the open
> doorly examples you give, it seems very unlikely, that you will find new
> creations=2E Just try to be open=2E

Who is closed here?

> The sixities stars were all made big by their own baby boom generation=2E
> Please try to look at 'now', and think about how Dylan and the Beatles wer=
e
> never of any use for the real avantgarde of the sixties=2E

I thought Stockhausen, Berio, Berberian, Ligeti ("Hungarian rock"), to menti=
on
only those who spring to mind, were swayed away by rock, its intuitive music=
al
approach, its socio-political content and nature, its modalism, electronic
instrumentation, etc=2E
Even Boulez' "rug concerts" with the NY Philharmonic ca=2E1970 were indebted=
 to
rock fests and sit-ins (in turn indebted to Cage, so the wheel goes round=2E=
=2E=2E)
Minimalism (Riley, Reich , Glass), arguably the most important new "high"
musical style to emerge from the 60's, comes straight out of rock's pulsatio=
n
and bare bones harmony in reaction to the over-elaborate, self-absorbed
avant-garde cliches of European composers, abstract expressionism and free
jazz=2E
Miles himself from '68 on is the most eloquent example of rock's impact=2E

> So aren't Beck or
> Oasis=2E

They certainly don't, being watered-down music of 35 years ago, but I do
believe nowadays techno and internet's counterculture have a somewhat simila=
r
influence on "avant" artists (not just musicians) as the 60's own
counterculture in it's time=2E
In fact a big consequence of the 60's, Imho, is the partial breakdown of the
wall between pop and avant-garde=2E Is the Beatles'"Revolution n=B09" really=
 pop
music? Is Glenn Branca really avant-garde? Zorn? Glass? "Nixon in China"?
Keith Haring? Jean Michel Basquiat? Warhol? Laurie Anderson?

Best,
DY=2E



>
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: [Fwd: Messages out of order?]
Date: 07 Feb 2002 21:15:26 +0100

Il s'agit d'un message multivolet au format MIME.
--------------3ED309876CA9F1E007FBBB70
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit



--------------3ED309876CA9F1E007FBBB70
Content-Type: message/rfc822
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Disposition: inline

X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [fr] (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-Accept-Language: fr
MIME-Version: 1.0
References: <[e-mail]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit



Ari a Θcrit :

> > From: Andy Marks <[e-mail]>
> > Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 06:21:01 -0800 (PST)
> > To: [e-mail]
> > Subject: Messages out of order?
> >
> > Is it just me or do others receive zorn-list
> > messages out of order? Like with that last
> > Kubrick message, I received the response and
> > then a couple minutes later the original message.
>
> I receive messages that were posted in 1904. There must be some kind of a
> delay on this list. Don't know if it's at random ;-)

I've set my time machine back to 2002, thank you. (1904's great, though.
They have this amazing music in New Orleans, does'nt have a name yet...)
yours,
DY.



--------------3ED309876CA9F1E007FBBB70--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jazz Death?
Date: 07 Feb 2002 12:40:20 -0800

>>>I one attended a local jazz concert where
the band members outnumbered the audience --and it was
only a trio.<<<

Must've been at a locale in a sunny, warm climate.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Now vs.Then
Date: 07 Feb 2002 21:43:18 +0100



Skip Heller a =E9crit :

> > From: "Remco Takken" <r=2Etakken@planet=2Enl>
> > Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 17:15:10 +0100
> > To: <y-man@wanadoo=2Efr>, "Zorn List" <zorn-list@lists=2Exmission=2Ecom>
> > Subject: Re: Now vs=2EThen
> >
> > The sixities stars were all made big by their own baby boom generation=
=2E
> > Please try to look at 'now', and think about how Dylan and the Beatles w=
ere
> > never of any use for the real avantgarde of the sixties=2E
>
> I think Carla Bley would take you to task on this, with regards to the
> Beatles and their impact on ESCALATOR OVER THE HILL=2E  And that's only on=
e
> record=2E
>
> skip h

So would Gary Burton (whose late 60's band with Larry Coryell was a wonderfu=
lly
successful jazz/country/rock hybrid), Chick Corea, Roswell Rudd, etc=2E etc=
=2E

Best,
DY=2E



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Brian Olewnick" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re. Jazz Death
Date: 07 Feb 2002 16:41:24 -0500


> Consider that there are large number of serious jazz fans (they assail
> me constantly so I know they're out there) who believe that jazz
> innovation ended sometime in the '30s. Obviously, no one on this list
> shares that belief.

Yes, but on the other hand, is it so difficult imagining someone looking
back from 2100 and identifying Jazz as an art form that flourished from
about 1900-2000? All forms have their life spans; I don't see why jazz would
be excluded. No one does Cubist paintings anymore--it would seem a bit silly
to do so. But most areas of painting still carry Cubism's influence, just as
virtually every contemporary musical genre carries the (often strong)
influence of jazz.

I'm happy to be pointed in directions I'm unaware of but, to generalize
(there are exceptions), I find younger jazz musicians to fall into one of
two categories: Marsalis acolytes regurgitating watered down versions of bop
and early 60's Miles and members of the Aum Fidelity/Visions axis
regurgitating watered down versions of Ayler, Sanders, etc. Personally, I
find them equally boring, but that's just me.

I liked Masada well enough at the beginning; when I caught them a couple of
summers ago (and the chamber version again this past spring at Victo) it
seemed clear that they were going through the motions, able to play this
stuff falling out of bed. All are fine musicians, but there wasn't a real
spark between them. otoh, when I saw Sachiko M. and Otomo duetting at Tonic,
the sense of excitement and _danger_ was palpable. The possibility of
failure was actually present. Can't remember the last time I saw a jazz show
with a drastic enough conception that there was a distinct chance it
wouldn't work. _That's_ what I find missing these days.

Your mileage may vary.

Brian Olewnick

NP: Michihiro Sato - Improvisation






-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re. Jazz Death
Date: 07 Feb 2002 17:13:12 -0500

Brian Olewnick wrote:

> two categories: Marsalis acolytes regurgitating watered down versions
of bop
> and early 60's Miles and members of the Aum Fidelity/Visions axis
> regurgitating watered down versions of Ayler, Sanders, etc.

Rabih Abou-Khalil
Brian Blade
Uri Caine
Dominic Duval
James Emery
Satoko Fujii
et.al.

Distinctive voices are there to hear.
Categorize (or pigeonhole) them at your own loss.

> I liked Masada <snip>All are fine musicians, but there wasn't a real
> spark between them.

Hmmm. Last time I saw them, Zorn planted a big kiss on Dave's cheek
after a
trumpet solo, and Joey was sweating his ass off. Looked like sparks to
me.

Sounds like you need some time without music to re-discover its joys.

James Hale




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Robert Pleshar <[e-mail]>
Subject: Leonardo Music Journal
Date: 07 Feb 2002 16:24:54 -0600

Hi all,

Don't know if this was ever mentioned and I haven't read any of the articles
yet, but Vol. 11 (2001) of Leonardo Music Journal has a lot of potentially
interesting articles, including:

The Scratch Orchestra and Visual Arts
Cardew as a Basis for a Discussion on Ethical Options
Eddie Prevost: The Arrival of a New Musical Aesthetic: Extracts from a
half-buried Diary
Imaging Music: Abstract Expressionism and Free Improvisation
Hugh Davies, Lawrence Casserly, Alvin Lucier, Scanner all wrote articles as
well.

Rob


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Brian Olewnick" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re. Jazz Death
Date: 07 Feb 2002 17:27:42 -0500

> Rabih Abou-Khalil

Yeah, I like Rabih very much, but I'd be hard pressed to call (what I find
to be) his best work (like 'Odd Times') jazz. But that's just my own
pigeon-holing.

> Brian Blade
> Uri Caine

Not a big fan of either and, of the latter, it's more his classical
interpretations than his azz-related stuff.

> Dominic Duval

You know, none of these guys are very young! What's Duval, 55 or so? In any
case, no, I don't find his own work (what I've heard, which is admittedly
incomplete, though I've seen him as leader a few times) very compelling; you
may differ. As an accompanist for Taylor or McPhee (another giant) I think
he's ok, but, well, no Sirone.

> James Emery

Like him 25 years ago with the String Trio! Again, recent work has struck me
as bland.

> Satoko Fujii

I really haven't heard her well at all. Give me a rec or two.

> Distinctive voices are there to hear.
> Categorize (or pigeonhole) them at your own loss.

But Chris' original post specified "jazz", a pigeonhole in and of itself.
There are some around who would expand that definition to include _every_
music they love that has the slightest tinge. I don't.

> Hmmm. Last time I saw them, Zorn planted a big kiss on Dave's cheek
> after a
> trumpet solo, and Joey was sweating his ass off. Looked like sparks to
> me.

Yeah, if sweating automatically equated to good music, you'd have a point.
I've probably seen Zorn perform more than 30 times and I can't remember a
date where he _didn't_ look overjoyed at the performance, great, bad or
indifferent. Can't say whether or not he kissed Douglas every time.

Brian Olewnick


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: bjork (or the dangers of keyboards)
Date: 07 Feb 2002 18:23:57 EST


In a message dated 2/7/02 2:19:14 PM, [e-mail] writes:

>> a theremin blasts crazy tritones>
>
>>
>
>> How are you getting more than on note out of a tritone?

>Duh! What I really wanted to ask: How are you getting more
>than one note out of a theremin? You can only play on note at a time.


tremolo, baby.

wooooAAAAAHwwooooooAHAAHAHHAwoooooAHAHAH where woooo is B and AhAHAhHAH is F.

love,
  kate.



-----
[ .n o t h i n g  i s  w h a t  i s  s a i d. ]

.k a t e  p e t e r s o n.
.c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r.
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>
<A HREF="http://www.icefoundation.org">http://www.icefoundation.org</A>
(roundtable)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "David Beardsley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: bjork (or the dangers of keyboards)
Date: 07 Feb 2002 18:43:30 -0500

----- Original Message -----

> In a message dated 2/7/02 2:19:14 PM, [e-mail] writes:
>
> >> a theremin blasts crazy tritones>
> >
> >> How are you getting more than on note out of a tritone?
>
> >Duh! What I really wanted to ask: How are you getting more
> >than one note out of a theremin? You can only play on note at a time.
>
>
> tremolo, baby.

More like vibrato or glissando.



* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Chris Selvig <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jazz Death?
Date: 07 Feb 2002 16:15:52 -0800

I'd never pass up a chance to see some genius in a living room, but I live
outside of San Francisco, so I have more opportunities to see concerts than
I have time and money for.  The best problem I've ever had, granted, but
even if I gave up on buying records and seeing movies and eating out, and
got every book at the library, I still couldn't do it all.  However, the
size of the audience is of no concern to me, and I really like tiny
shows.  You can sit wherever you want, and you get to thank the performer
at the end.

At 11:37 AM 2/7/02 -0500, Ken Waxman wrote:
>Chris (and others):
>
>Don't "pas up some genius when they pass through San
>Francisco and play for 30 people in a living room",
>you may never get a chance to see them again.
>
>I had a grade 10 algebra exam, so missed seeing
>Richard Farina the one time he played Montreal. I was
>late, or he cancelled or the club folded the times I
>tried to see Cannonball Adderley (a real piss off,
>n'est-ce pas, Skip), I didn't see Marion Brown because
>I couldn't get out to an all night club and when I
>first came to Toronto I missed Vic Dickenson because a
>friend had to drag me to see some second rate rock
>band.
>
>Having just come back from a drive (from Toronto) to
>see Carlo Actis Dato -- a great Italian multi-woodwind
>player -- I'd encourage *everyone* to see as many
>folks as you can. You never know when you won't be
>able to see them again. And don't worry about the low
>attendance. I one attended a local jazz concert where
>the band members outnumbered the audience --and it was
>only a trio.
>
>Ken Waxman
>
>
>
>--- Chris Selvig <[e-mail]> wrote:
>     Maybe this boils down to not wanting to kick
> > myself for passing up some
> > genius when they pass through San Francisco and play
> > for 30 people in a
> > living room.
> >
> > Chris Selvig
>
>
>
>=====
>Ken Waxman
>[e-mail]
>www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos
>
>______________________________________________________
>Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca

Chris Selvig


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
Date: 07 Feb 2002 17:03:26 -0800



> From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:54:29 -0800
> To: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
> Cc: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>, Marcin Gokieli
> <[e-mail]>, Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>, Remco Takken
> <[e-mail]>, Ajda the Turkish Queen <[e-mail]>, Zorn
> List <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: Odp: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
>
>
> On Tue, 05 Feb 2002 19:05:57 -0800  Skip Heller wrote:

> Yeah, and I was using words like condescending and patronizing. You seem to
> make a difference, I feel yours is the polite way to say it.
>
> Condescending and patronizing are not about hating people, just feeling a
> little bit superior... You know, the typical and good wisher "I know what is
> good for you" attitude, and the refusal to admit that people might have good
> reasons (besides ignorance, cluelessness, brainwashing by big media, etc) to
> not buy an artistic product.
>
> And again the usual fallacy of people involved in obscure/marginal activities
> being genuinely puzzled at the fact that the world does not share their
> priorities...

Okay Patrice, you've proven to me the way to believe is your way.

Let me give you a little insider tale, and tell me if this would not do much
to color your perception of how it works before it hits the streets:

Big Name jazz label, who are manufactured, distributed, and funded (for
publicity, endcaps etc) by a major label signs two acts.  One in Black Horn
Player, and the other is Funky White Jazz Group who have caught on big with
college kids and other fans of jam band-style activity.  Both have reaped a
great deal of press.  BHP is coming off a major where they didn't quite know
what to do with him, but at least one of his records did -- by jazz slaes
standards -- really well.  FWJG are moving up to a bigger label because the
samll label has really done all the can, and can't really get them up to the
next step for which they are obviously ready.

Both make their discs at about the same time.  BHP makes a record that will
not get him any radio, even NPR, because there's cursing on it, and jazz
radio won't touch it because there's no jazz (in the mainstream sense of the
word).  FWJG makes exactly the same kind of record they always have, just
with a slightly glossier production sense.  They know they're going to the
next step, and they're not messing around.  They've worked hard and aren;t
about to get stupid just because Big Name has more money than Respectable
Name (their former label).

Advance discs of both records come out a few wks before the release date, as
per usual.  A freelance reporter who writes prolifically for one of the two
weekly papers in LA here's both, and realizes that, of the two, BHP could
use the ink more, especially since he is not playing LA soon.  Meanwhile,
FWJG are booked in to play at the Launch Pad (not its real name), a club
known as an industry launch for new stars.

The well-meaning editor of the weekly paper says, "Yes, by all means, write
about BHP.  He's always been really interesting, we have yet to cover him,
and his record deserves a shove."

BHP is contacted, gives a fantastic interview, and the article composes
itself with very little write-through.  Editor is happy as a clam with story
and calls Big Name publicity department for a photo of BHP to run with the
story.

BHP advertising division calls editor back moments later, and says they are
not to run this story at least for two months (at which point, the momentum
for BHP's uncommercial little folly will have been killed).  The Launch Pad,
Mega Record Mart, and Big Name are taking a full page ad for two wks in a
row to hype FWJG's BIG GIG, and any interference with this will cost the
paper their advertising, which they will take to the other weekly for a damn
long time.

The editor realizes his job is on the line if he costs his paper three
lucrative clients, and spikes the story.  After which point, BHP is
relegated to "problematic" status for over a year (or nearly two albums),
and he can't really get good coverage in that paper, which is really the
only one that takes a non-provinical attitude towards jazz.

And that's just one scenario of this sort which I've seen up close.  new of
this sort of thing doesn't really leave the offices, but it happens in the
allegedly noble world of jazz, and happens even worse in the world of rock,
where it's a much higher-stakes game ($-wise).

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: joseph neff to automotive...
Date: 07 Feb 2002 17:35:24 -0800

Sorry all, but I lost Mr Neff's personal email and just wanted to thank him
for the ultra-cool CD and wonder if he got mine and found it entertaining.

sh


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re. Jazz Death
Date: 07 Feb 2002 20:45:10 -0500

on 2/7/02 5:27 PM, Brian Olewnick at [e-mail] wrote:

>> Rabih Abou-Khalil
>
> Yeah, I like Rabih very much, but I'd be hard pressed to call (what I find
> to be) his best work (like 'Odd Times') jazz. But that's just my own
> pigeon-holing.
>
I think you're pigeon-holing things a bit narrowly.  If you're not doing it
to suit your argument, then you have a point.
>
>> Satoko Fujii
>
> I really haven't heard her well at all. Give me a rec or two.
>
I'd recommend her big band album "Jo" (Buzz) and the trio (w/Dresser and
Black) Toward, "To West" (Enja) as starting points.  There's also "Double
Take" (Ewe) with her North American orchestra on one disk and her Japanese
orchestra doing (mostly) the same compositions on the other.

Others will recommend her duo album with Feldman, "April Shower" (Ewe), but
I haven't yet warmed to that one.  Her most recent trio album is "Junction"
(Ewe) and for a post-rock oriented outing, there's her Japanese quartet
"Vulcan" (sorry, don't have the disk handy, but it's on either Buzz or Ewe,
IIRC).


>> Hmmm. Last time I saw them, Zorn planted a big kiss on Dave's cheek
>> after a
>> trumpet solo, and Joey was sweating his ass off. Looked like sparks to
>> me.
>
> Yeah, if sweating automatically equated to good music, you'd have a point.

And if glib replies constituted an argument, so would you, at least on this
one.  C'mon Brian, you can do better than that.

--Mike


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jazz Death?
Date: 07 Feb 2002 20:56:01 -0500

At 11:37 AM 2/7/02 -0500, Ken Waxman wrote:
>And don't worry about the low
>attendance. I one attended a local jazz concert where
>the band members outnumbered the audience --and it was
>only a trio.

The only time I've ever seen Zorn was when he was touring with the
Chadbournes.  For the first set there was me and two bartenders, and two
other patrons showed up for the second set.
--

Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Brian Olewnick" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re. Jazz Death
Date: 07 Feb 2002 21:01:02 -0500

Mike C. wrote re: Rabih:

> I think you're pigeon-holing things a bit narrowly.  If you're not doing
it
> to suit your argument, then you have a point.

I don't know. On the things I've heard (not everything in his oeuvre, to be
sure), I hear more of a middle-eastern thing than jazz. Similarly with Simon
Shaheen or Talip Ozkan who, I guess, some jazz fans might want to claim as
their own.

> >> Satoko Fujii

Thanks for the recs.

> > Yeah, if sweating automatically equated to good music, you'd have a
point.
>
> And if glib replies constituted an argument, so would you, at least on
this
> one.  C'mon Brian, you can do better than that.

Ok.ok. I think Baron's a really fine drummer and every time I've seen him,
he's given his all. That (to me) doesn't mean the _music_ he's playing (in
this case, as a supporting musician) is automatically great. Hell, Elton
John sweats during his shows. I'd never suggested these guys aren't _trying_
hard, but that's not my criterion for aesthetic success. I think Masada's a
perfect example of the type of thing I'm talking about. All four guys are
monster musicians, Zorn's written an attractive songbook and, for a while,
the music was fairly exciting (I mean, not up in Coltrane territory, but
pretty good). But they take it to a certain point and no further, becoming a
well-oiled, professional machine and it loses (again, for me) all signs of
life. If you enjoy them, fine. I still enjoy their first few hundred discs,
but I haven't seen the point in getting any for about four years. I don't
have any indication that they're going to break out of a well-established
rut.

When I go hear AMM or Otomo, I have no really good idea (except in a general
way) what I'm going to get. With Masada (or Wynton or William Parker or
Louis Belogenis, etc.) I know, within a few granules, exactly what to
expect. This doesn't interest me.

Brian Olewnick

NP: Philip Samartzis/Sachiko M. - Artefact


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re. Jazz Death
Date: 07 Feb 2002 18:20:31 -0800



> From: "Brian Olewnick" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 21:01:02 -0500
> To: "Mike Chamberlain" <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>, "Zorn List"
> <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: Re. Jazz Death
>
> Ok.ok. I think Baron's a really fine drummer and every time I've seen him,
> he's given his all. That (to me) doesn't mean the _music_ he's playing (in
> this case, as a supporting musician) is automatically great.

My experience has led me to the conclusion that things are great the minute
Joey shows up.  He pushes things a little harder but with this wonderful
happiness at all times.  And if anyone is to be considered an innovative
force because he's added to the vocabulary of his instrument (the way Jaco
or Scott LaFaro did in a rhythm section context), Joey is the perfect
example of an innovator.

Honestly, Brian, I think you're complaining that nobody's reinventing the
wheel.  And round still seems to be working for a great many people who feel
stimulated and communciated to.  And I thought the point of art was
generally to stimulate and communicate, not neccessarily to reinvent the
wheel.

Joe Strummer once made a remark that he loved James Fearnly of the Pogues so
much because he "found his groove and he's worked it like a coalmine".  He
said he thought Fearnley was great because he was going so deep instead of
trying to go wide and/or do something self-consciously innovative.  As Glenn
Gould said when discussing Berio (and this might open a can of worms), "New
is not better.  New is simply new, and there's little value in seeking
contempranaiety (spell that, please) for it's own sake."

Maybe the reason so many people continue to investigate the territory that's
on the map is because playing it to their own satisfaction still repesents a
challenge.  Tommy Flanagan, towards the end of his life, was asked why he
continued to play be-bop.  he answered, "I'm still not playing it as well as
I'd like."

I think that's about the most beautiful answer anyone can give about why
they continue to do what they do.  Sonny Rollins may not be out on the edge
of things anymore, but if you catch him on a good night (and he still has
those, but consistency has never been his best suit), you will hear a
completely compelling imrpovisor whose music is fueled by the sound of
discovery and rediscovery.  And, frankly, if that criterion works for
someone who has been in the front lines of so much change over so many
decades, it likely has merit in the field.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jazz Death?
Date: 08 Feb 2002 03:01:21 +0000

>From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>

For the first set there was me and two bartenders, and two
>other patrons showed up for the second set.

The indie store I worked at in the '80s was offered an instore autograph
session with jazz singer Eddie Jefferson by his record distributor, who were
supposed to publicise it, which of course they never did. I kid you not, no
one, not one person (not even a label rep!) showed up for it, although I got
to spend a thoroughly enjoyable hour chatting with Mr.  Jefferson, the
capper is, 2 weeks later he was murdered, shot dead outside a nightclub in
Detroit...

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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jazz Death?
Date: 07 Feb 2002 19:33:28 -0800



> From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 03:01:21 +0000
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: Jazz Death?
>
>
> The indie store I worked at in the '80s was offered an instore autograph
> session with jazz singer Eddie Jefferson by his record distributor, who were
> supposed to publicise it, which of course they never did. I kid you not, no
> one, not one person (not even a label rep!) showed up for it, although I got
> to spend a thoroughly enjoyable hour chatting with Mr.  Jefferson

I had much the same experience when the great Jimmy McGriff did an in store
at the joint where I worked in Philly.  We sat around for a couple hours
talking about guitar players.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Brian Olewnick" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re. Jazz Death
Date: 07 Feb 2002 22:35:26 -0500

> Honestly, Brian, I think you're complaining that nobody's reinventing the
> wheel.

:-) Actually, I thought I was complaining that _too many_ people are trying
to reinvent the wheel! I wish they'd try inventing something else.

Brian Olewnick


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re. Jazz Death
Date: 08 Feb 2002 14:49:52 +1100

Refreshingly, there are many people though these days who are just getting
together and playing some good music. Bobby Previte or Peter Epstein for
example have done some amazing and interesting albums, but they didn't
reinvent anything, or attempt to for that matter... is there a problem with
that?

> :-) Actually, I thought I was complaining that _too many_ people are
trying
> to reinvent the wheel! I wish they'd try inventing something else.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re. Jazz Death
Date: 07 Feb 2002 20:42:09 -0800



> From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 14:49:52 +1100
> To: "Brian Olewnick" <[e-mail]>, "Zorn List"
> <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: Re. Jazz Death
>
> Refreshingly, there are many people though these days who are just getting
> together and playing some good music. Bobby Previte or Peter Epstein for
> example have done some amazing and interesting albums, but they didn't
> reinvent anything, or attempt to for that matter... is there a problem with
> that?

There f**king shouldn't be.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re. Jazz Death
Date: 07 Feb 2002 20:53:17 -0800



> From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 14:49:52 +1100
> To: "Brian Olewnick" <[e-mail]>, "Zorn List"
> <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: Re. Jazz Death
>
>> :-) Actually, I thought I was complaining that _too many_ people are
> trying
>> to reinvent the wheel! I wish they'd try inventing something else.

The wheel is still functioning quite well, though.  The wheel is far from
dead and archaic.  And the same can be said for any vehicle of expression in
which people are developing a voice.  Whether or not we think they are
doesn't matter.  As long as they think they are, and their constituency (no
matter how small) agrees, it endures.  There are people right now, as we
speak, hearing Diana Krall play in the King Cole trio style.  She doesn't
have that style perfected yet, she's still developing within it, and so much
of that audience has never had exposure to that style, so to them it's a new
experience.  It might not be the experience we're choosing (although I think
she's just fine for that sort of entertainment), but there are a lot of
people choosing it and opening their ears to improvising through it, even if
they don't wind up buying works that the cognescenti deem somehow more
challenging.    It's fresh and exciting for them.  Anything that stays fresh
and exciting and develops a new listenership -- be it hip-hop, punk rock,
modern music etc -- is in good shape, because it's layers seem to be staying
somehow alive.  If you have a Zorn layer or an Uri layer or whatever, you
need a surface layer, and Diana Krall records are fine for that.  And,
funnily enough, I think the Krall phenom is a healthy thing, because it
breeds new reactions and opposition, and that always leads to activity.
Plus there is the inevitable small percent of Krall consumers who will want
to get to the next layers, and it leads to a lot of the stuff we're talking
about here (and I say this because my iin to to jazz was a singing piano
player who addressed my rock/blues/country sensibilities-- Mose Allison).

Besides, she's much more physically appealing to me than Wynton.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Chris Selvig <[e-mail]>
Subject: Jazz death: sweatin' to the oldies
Date: 07 Feb 2002 21:02:06 -0800

"Yeah, if sweating automatically equated to good music, you'd have a
point." - I bet the fat guy in Blues Traveler sweats quite a bit.


Chris Selvig


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "William York" <[e-mail]>
Subject: jazz vs. amm
Date: 08 Feb 2002 06:19:47

>When I go hear AMM or Otomo, I have no really good idea (except in a
> >general way) what I'm going to get. With Masada (or Wynton or William
> >Parker or Louis Belogenis, etc.) I know, within a few granules, >exactly
>what to expect. This doesn't interest me.

Hmmm, I saw AMM last year, and only owning a couple of their discs, they did
pretty much exactly what I expected. I saw Masada around the same time --
maybe six months earlier -- and only owning a couple of discs by them as
well, I thought it was much more surprising and exciting (among other
things). And I am not the world's biggest Masada fan. I guess it depends on
what you are listening for or tuned into.

By the way, there is a REALLY good (and funny) review of AMM's Tunes Without
Measure Or End written by (I think) z-list member Nick Cain here:
http://www.info.net.nz/opprobrium/html/online/2/reviews/e2_reviewsA.html

Nice work -- good to see someone at least putting a little pin-prick into
this bubble ...



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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "William York" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Luttenbachers again / 'New York is Now' book
Date: 08 Feb 2002 06:25:35

In reference to my last post ... Speaking of jazz writers "shaking things
up" (not that you are strictly a "jazz writer" Mr. Cain), there is, somewhat
unbelievably, an article on Weasel Walter and the recently discussed-here
Flying Luttenbachers in the recent issue of Jazziz. Not only is it possibly
the first non-pejorative mention I have ever seen of death metal in a
magazine like this (hooray, somebody's got his ears open!), there are some
interesting quotes about the sometime-predictability of improv today, even
by such acknowledged masters as Lovens, Gustafsson, etc.

So, I am wondering, since this article is written by Phil Freeman -- who I
had originally dismissed b/c of all the slams directed at his book "New York
is Now" -- is this book worthwhile? From what I hear there is a lot of
Zorn-bashing and stuff like that, but anyway, has anyone here read it? if
so, thoughts/comments???

Thanks,

WY

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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (spell that, please)
Date: 08 Feb 2002 00:39:59 -0600

Skip probably meant to write:

contemporaneity


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 06 Feb 2002 23:11:00 +0100

Hi,

Arguments about the importance that MIles Davis has for me have become a
constant during the last few months and the Z-list could be no exception as
I see.

>I think your
> statement is a bit too Miles-friendly or perhaps nostalgic.

>What's wrong with looking to the past for precedent and inspiration?
There's
>a huge difference between that and nostalgia.

Skip, my message clearly says that everyone looks back either for
inspiration or just for enjoyment. It's obvious and unavoidable. Everything
is the results of previous influence, no doubt. You didn't discover
electricity now.

> It depends on your personal taste, but "Spillane" or "Elegy"
> mean much more to me than any of the records you mention.

>Maybe to you.  But to the bulk of jazz-oriented musicians and beyond, KIND
>OF BLUE is an extremely important thing.  In jazz, only A LOVE SUPREME
seems
>to get the same universal influence vote from players in every school.

Needless to say and as I mentioned in my previous e-mail, I can objectively
understand the importance that those recordings have in the jazz world and
accept it. "A Love Supreme" is certainly one of my favorite albums ever, but
Miles' work never made a dent on me, he just leaves me absolutely cold.
What really annoys me is the fact that he seems to be untouchable whereas
everyone, EVERYONE who make their work public are subject to possible
negative criticism. And Miles Davis shouldn't be exempt of sincere
"attacks". Ok, he's an icon, but I don't like him. Such an open-minded list
shouldn't be so surprised, IMHO. i won't pull out a gun if someone hates
Zorn.

I understand they
> are important for many people, and going against Miles has "come rather
> expensive" to me, so to speak. Maybe my age prevents me from enjoying
those
> titles in all their supposed immensity, but IMHO, Miles had his time, and
> now's the time for something else.

>Miles' time is far from over.  People are still dealing with his work and
>its influence.  John Zorn would probably be the first guy to slap you silly
>for saying that Miles' -- or any great artist's -- "time is over and now's
>the time for something else".

I don't think I'm silly. I just don't like Miles Davis. Is it so hard to
understand? I just meant that comparing Zorn to Davis is absurd, IMO. Zorn
has his own idosincracy and, it goes without saying, his own "momentum". His
influences outside the music world are uncomparable to those of Davis.


> Of course, I don't expect anyone of any
> future generations to produce another "Spillane", because it's supposed to
> be unique. And, of course, I also look back when purchasing or just
> listening to music, but your comments seem to me a little "anchored in the
> past" .
>
>You can't anchor in the present, because it's moving, and you can't anchor
>to the future, because it's never here yet.

Obviousness?? Thanks, Skip, but I'm not so stupid.

 Zorn obviously understood this
when he designed SPILLANE, which is based on the Mike Hammer novels up to
about 1961.  History is different than antiquity.  Ya damn kid!


"Damn Kid!" doesn't sound really good, does it? Revealing my age seems to
have been a mistake. NOw I don't have the right to speak anymore!

EfrΘn del Valle
a.e: Radiohead: "KID A" (of course, kid)

skip h
NP: Cannonball Adderley: RADIO NIGHTS (amazing)


_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re. Jazz Death--I detect misanthropy
Date: 08 Feb 2002 07:27:10 -0500

on 2/7/02 11:53 PM, Skip Heller at [e-mail] wrote:


> Besides, she's much more physically appealing to me than Wynton.
>
Misanthropist!  Misanthropist!

--Mike


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?Windows-1252?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: =?Windows-1252?Q?Susie_Ibarra/Roberto_Rodr=EDguez?=
Date: 07 Feb 2002 22:35:53 +0100

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_00A6_01C1B027.CD65D2A0
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi,

A couple of days ago I purchased Susie Ibarra's "Songbird Suite" and I'd =
say it's a nice album but absolutely nothing out of this earth. IMHO, =
it's something right inbetween her first trio effort "Radiance" and =
"Flower After Flower", sometimes really laid back and somehow disperse =
as the latter, and at times going into wild improvisations in which I'd =
highlight Jennifer Choi's work on violin. Ikue Mori's contributions are =
for me pretty dispensable. Even Ibarra's playing didn't hook me up this =
time; I find her a bit restrained although there is a good percussion =
solo, "Trance N.1", and of course some other remarkable spots, but all =
in all not as dynamic as I'd expected.

BTW, someone told me she'd be in Barcelona to present a new recording =
with Derek Bailey. Anyone knows about that supposed new album? I just =
know about "Daedal". That would confirm the validity of the information =
a bit.

With regards to "El Danz=F3n de Mois=E9s", I'm not as wild about it as =
someone else on the list some days ago. It's certainly a beautiful album =
but perhaps after purchasing maybe 20 Radical Jewish Culture releases =
I've grown a bit tired of the "same" melodies over and over again. IMO, =
the execution is superb (I was particularly shocked by Mark Feldman) but =
some fresh air would be very welcome on the Series. This is really, =
really subjective. The boredom factor can be too conditioning.

Best,

Efr=E9n del Valle
n.p: Tsahar/Ragin/Kowald/Drake: "Open Systems" (Terron=E8s)

------=_NextPart_000_00A6_01C1B027.CD65D2A0
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dwindows-1252" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>A couple of days ago I purchased Susie Ibarra's =
"Songbird=20
Suite" and I'd say it's a nice album but absolutely nothing out of this =
earth.=20
IMHO, it's something right inbetween her first trio effort "Radiance" =
and=20
"Flower After Flower", sometimes really laid back and somehow disperse =
as the=20
latter, and at times going into wild improvisations in which I'd =
highlight=20
Jennifer Choi's work on violin. Ikue Mori's contributions are for me =
pretty=20
dispensable. Even Ibarra's playing didn't hook me up this time; I find =
her a bit=20
restrained although there is a good percussion solo, "Trance N.1", and =
of course=20
some other remarkable spots, but all in all not as dynamic as I'd=20
expected.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>BTW, someone told me she'd be in Barcelona to =
present a new=20
recording with Derek Bailey. Anyone knows about that supposed new album? =
I just=20
know about "Daedal". That would confirm the validity of the information =
a=20
bit.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>With regards to "El Danz=F3n de Mois=E9s", I'm not =
as wild about=20
it as someone else on the list some days ago. It's certainly a beautiful =
album=20
but perhaps after purchasing maybe 20 Radical Jewish Culture releases =
I've grown=20
a bit tired of the "same" melodies over and over again. IMO, the =
execution is=20
superb (I was particularly shocked by Mark Feldman) but some fresh air =
would be=20
very welcome on the Series. This is really, really subjective. The =
boredom=20
factor can be too conditioning.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Best,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Efr=E9n del Valle</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>n.p: Tsahar/Ragin/Kowald/Drake: "Open Systems"=20
(Terron=E8s)</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_00A6_01C1B027.CD65D2A0--


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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 08 Feb 2002 09:30:47 -0500

Kind of Blue was the second Miles album that I bought.  Birth of the
Cool was the first ( I liked it b/c I was into Gerry Mulligan at the
time).  I turned Kind of Blue and on expected to be blown away having
heard the hype.  What did I hear? Elevator music!  I relegated it to the
inoffensive list of CDs I listen to when I sleep.  I found myself asking
why this Miles Davis character was so important if his "best" album was
pretty lame.  All that changed when I happened to be looking in the
Miles section of the record store, the cover of Bitches Brew called to
me.  I put it on for the ride home. WOW! I was blown away. I didn't know
what I was hearing, but oh did I like it.  I later went to explore
earlier Miles, but it doesn't really do it for me like the electric
years.

Dodging the stones,
Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Re: OT: saul williams / www.massmag.com
Date: 08 Feb 2002 09:46:19 -0500

* "Andrew" <[e-mail]>:
>This is as good an opportunity as any to spam.....I write for an
>online webzine that covers Hip hop, literature, film, cultural
>commentary, industrial design, etc... I really love the mag.
>Check us out at www.massmag.com, and read my reviews of the
>recent Saul Williams and David Axelrod records.

>Again, this is not spam, but I think you guys might dig the mag.

Hey Andrew ... hope you don't mind a reply to this here.
The mag looks good!  Read your review of the Williams at,
http://www.massmag.com/winter02/setrecrevs.htm, and ...

Wow!!!  While we agree on his skills as an MC, we definitely have
different opinions on the rest of the record (and both Ursula Rucker
& Sarah Jones, it would seem :-).  I don't find the production
anywhere near as stale as you do, and to compare him (or pieces he's
done) to, IMO, has-beens like Living Colour, a Hendrix wanna-be like
Kravitz, or the f**king joke that is Rage/Zack de la Rocha is ...
well, I can't quite believe it!  I also think that, while already
old, "Coded Language" was/is a fine centerpiece.  One of the better
tracks Krust has done, on his own, or with Roni Size & Co..  I like
Saul's earlier Big Dada cuts as well, so more "old stuff" on the LP
would have been fine w/ me.

One thing to note: I haven't had the LP in rotation since Spring
of last year (2001), when I got it, but I did play it a helluva
lot (among other things) at that time.  Never know what I might
think upon revisiting it, but ...

As they say, different strokes ...  Man, sometimes I can't believe
how critical people are of music ... or art, or film, or ...  Not
bringing this up specifically because of your review, but doesn't
anyone just _listen_ and _enjoy_ (or not enjoy, and move on to the
next LP) anymore??? ;-)


-Patrick


NP: Luc Ferrari - "Presque rien"



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: rejazzdeath/satoko fuji
Date: 08 Feb 2002 15:24:48 +0000

i was being pretty nycentric (well, why not?) with my up'n'comer list,
although i don't really know how old satoko fuji is, so i'm not sure she
fits whatever criteria we're working with anyway. but she is really
remarkable.

as for recs, brian, i'd go straight to 'double take'. she and wm parker are
two of the only people i know of who are really mining big band. but i
realize, of course, that that sentence might well lead you to stay away from
it.

jo, toward to west, others are also very good, and vulcan is intersting for
tatsuya yoshida's presence, but april shower and junction i'm less sold on.
i'm actually a little worried that she, who struck me as a real voice, might
be falling into a jazz trap. but i'm hoping to see her in nyc and at victo
in the spring, so i'll reserve doomsaying.

kg


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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: RE: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 08 Feb 2002 16:31:06 +0100 (CET)

HI,

My previous e-mail was sent in error. I thought I'd
deleted it to avoid more arguments on MIles. I've had
thousands. The fact is that I leave an open door
because his music might sink in in the future- maybe a
near future, and I understand that he means so much
for so many. I've enjoyed his "Porgy & Bess" album,
"Ballads" (which is a compilation I think) and several
others, but for instance, "Kind of Blue" just leaves
me cold, absolutely cold. What really upsets me is the
kind of guy who bangs his head against the wall when I
say this.
I'll probably come back to "Bitches Brew" and let's
see. It was many years ago that I listened to that
album and perhaps my scope is a bit wider now. I hope
so!

Best,

EfrΘn del Valle

>
> Kind of Blue was the second Miles album that I
> bought.  Birth of the
> Cool was the first ( I liked it b/c I was into Gerry
> Mulligan at the
> time).  I turned Kind of Blue and on expected to be
> blown away having
> heard the hype.  What did I hear? Elevator music!  I
> relegated it to the
> inoffensive list of CDs I listen to when I sleep.  I
> found myself asking
> why this Miles Davis character was so important if
> his "best" album was
> pretty lame.  All that changed when I happened to be
> looking in the
> Miles section of the record store, the cover of
> Bitches Brew called to
> me.  I put it on for the ride home. WOW! I was blown
> away. I didn't know
> what I was hearing, but oh did I like it.  I later
> went to explore
> earlier Miles, but it doesn't really do it for me
> like the electric
> years.
>
> Dodging the stones,
> Zach
>
>

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Yahoo! Messenger
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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: rejazzdeath/satoko fuji
Date: 08 Feb 2002 16:48:00 +0100 (CET)

Hi,

I'm surprised nobody mentioned "Kitsune-bi" on Tzadik.
That record is a blast! If features her regular trio
w/ Dresser and Black, plus solo pieces and duos with a
Japanese saxophonist. An amazing record.
I also purchased recently a Japanese import record by
the trio called "Looking Out of the Window" which is
superb.
The big band stuff I found a bit too disperse, there's
a clear lack of energy, IMHO, at least in comparison
to her smaller groups. I haven't listened to "Jo"
which I've heard it's very good, but I own the other
two releases with large ensembles and they didn't grab
me (i don't remember the titles: "Double Take" and
...?)

Best,

EfrΘn del Valle


>
> as for recs, brian, i'd go straight to 'double
> take'. she and wm parker are
> two of the only people i know of who are really
> mining big band. but i
> realize, of course, that that sentence might well
> lead you to stay away from
> it.
>
> jo, toward to west, others are also very good, and
> vulcan is intersting for
> tatsuya yoshida's presence, but april shower and
> junction i'm less sold on.
> i'm actually a little worried that she, who struck
> me as a real voice, might
> be falling into a jazz trap. but i'm hoping to see
> her in nyc and at victo
> in the spring, so i'll reserve doomsaying.
>
> kg
>
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger:
> http://messenger.msn.com
>
>
> -
>

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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 08 Feb 2002 08:15:40 -0800

I too think 'Kind of Blue' is slightly overrated.  A very good album
but I am not sure why there is such an obsession about this
particular album.  As far as I know right now there are two books on
the making of this album - plus it sort of looked upon as the
greatest jazz album ever.  I don't think the hype is from the
artist's corner but more from what one can call 'popular media or
culture.'

The one album I think is truly a masterpiece is Cannonball Addley's
(spelling is surely wrong, sorry) 'Something Else'  The album was
recorded around the same time as 'Kind of Blue' with pretty much the
same lineup (except for Coltrane). That collectiion I find is a much
stronger piece of work.

Also I prefer 'Milestones.'  But again, I am not saying that 'Kind of
Blue' is bad - it is for sure a good album.
--
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: mwoodwor <[e-mail]>
Subject: Previte
Date: 08 Feb 2002 12:15:00 -0400

Um - quite a few of you have been singing the praises of Bobby Previte
lately (justifiably so) but no one responded to my enquiry about his new Bump
the Renaisance release...has no one out there in Zorn land heard it yet?


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Previte
Date: 08 Feb 2002 11:10:34 -0500

i just played a tune from it on my radio show this morning that was really
nice, but that's all i've heard.  Ray Anderson, Marty Ehrlich, Wayne Horvitz
(piano), Bobby and I'm spacing on the bass player.  solid line-up, atrocious
cover art.
sean

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of mwoodwor
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 11:15 AM


Um - quite a few of you have been singing the praises of Bobby Previte
lately (justifiably so) but no one responded to my enquiry about his new
Bump
the Renaisance release...has no one out there in Zorn land heard it yet?


-



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Christian Wolff again
Date: 08 Feb 2002 18:32:33 +0100 (CET)

Hi,

I asked about this record a while ago without success.
IÆm referring to Christian WolffÆs Tzadik release,
which is supposed to be here within the next few
weeks. I think it was a December or November 2001
release and it featured, among others, Fred Frith and
William Winant. I donÆt recall the title but I think
itÆs his only Tzadik release to date.
Any thoughts?

Thanks in advance.

Best regards,

EfrΘn del Valle


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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jazz Death?
Date: 08 Feb 2002 19:14:13 +0100


> AMM have specifically denied being jazz, in the liner notes for "To Hear

Not everyone says the same as to how he acts (grammar?). I might state here,
that I am not responding to a message on the Zorn list for instance. Is this
automatically true?

> hindsight, especially in defining important formal innovations, but can
> anyone out there tell me they're hearing the equivalent of Coltrane, or
> Parker, or Ellington, out there?

I don't think it would be a very relaxed point of departure when trying to
be interested in new music. To me, being part of something in the now, is as
least as important, as finding out about great music that's still unknown. I
believe there are very many older listeners out there, who have enjoyed the
greatest jazz in the world, without seeing Coltran, Parker or Ellington
live. So in my times, I am not to worried about missing the big thing.

I feel great being a witness of the creation of great new stuff by Uri
Caine, John Zorn, Michael Moore, Chris Speed/Jim Black/Brad Shepik/Skuli
Sverrisson, Rova sax 4tet, Paolo Angeli.

Also, along the way I enjoyed new stuff by The Necks, Jorrit Dijkstra/
Talking Pictures, Godspeed (I wouldn't call that jazz btw).



>    Maybe this boils down to not wanting to kick myself for passing up some
> genius when they pass through San Francisco and play for 30 people in a
> living room.
>
I absolutely can't se the problem in that. Ask the guy a question! Most of
the times, concerts like these just stick, as opposed to sponsored
non-events like North Sea Jazz, where hundreds are talking right through
Yusef Lateef's acoustic solo flute improvisations.

Regards, Remco


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sick of Miles
Date: 08 Feb 2002 18:56:46 +0100

>
> I hate some attitudes by people who MUST adore a
> specific artist because he/she is considered an icon.
> I have never done it and will never do it- although I
> put my "integrity" at risk.


I go along with Efren: I actually think it's OK, and strong to be careful to
not fall in the trap of the endless feedback/ repeating/ re-hashing of
praise by both lazy journalists and listeners.

I remember so many people being dissappointed by holy grails like Pet
Sounds, Sgt Pepper, The Sermon, Mingus Ah Um, Speechless or Ascension. We
are not all musicologists.

Some friends of mine (now in their forties) still dismiss Zappa's Studio
Tan/ Sleep Dirt/ Orchestral Favorites, because Zappa ranted along about the
legitimacy of those Warner Bros titles. Obviously, they missed out on some
new info, but worse: they didn't check out the thing itself (which is,
ofcourse, a truncated version of Zappa's Lather box set)

Skip says somewhere that 'not wanting to like stuff' reminded him of himself
at seventeen, I can see that, but there's more, I feel. Ofcourse, it also
remind me of *MYSELF*. Would you believe I heard Paul Simon's Graceland for
the first time... yesterday! I refused to go into that from 1986 on. I think
it's cool, and yes, Simon made the bucks with stuff Laswell was striving for
for some years already. It's still a good record, I will play it more often
from now on...

Remco Takken



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jason tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: [yawn]radical jewish series
Date: 08 Feb 2002 10:42:14 -0800 (PST)

(I was particularly shocked by
> Mark Feldman) but some fresh air would be very welcome on the Series.
> This is really, really subjective. The boredom factor can be too
> conditioning.

I totally agree, I have been passing over the radical jewish series,
the most surprising release so far has been jamie saft's sovlanut.

Another nice one was the jennifer charles/oren - la mar enfortuna but
it didnt stand the test of time.

__________________________________________________
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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 08 Feb 2002 11:00:20 -0800

on 2/6/02 2:11 PM, Efr=E9n del Valle at [e-mail] wrote:

> Arguments about the importance that MIles Davis has for me

We're not talking about Miles' importance to you.  We're talking about his
general importance.  Big difference.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 08 Feb 2002 19:11:10 +0000

>From: EfrΘn del Valle <[e-mail]>

>Miles' work never made a dent on me, he just leaves me absolutely cold.
>What really annoys me is the fact that he seems to be untouchable whereas
>everyone, EVERYONE who make their work public are subject to possible
>negative criticism.

Well, Miles certainly isn't untouchable, from working in music retail
(mainly jazz oriented) for many years, I've had to listen to lots of
negative criticism about the 'Dark Prince': the old guys who liked him until
he went electric, the younger guys who only like the electric stuff (and
even then some of them only like the '80s comeback material), the 'outside'
people who figure he's too MOR, the technicians who claim he can't even play
his instrument, in fact I think Miles get dissed more than any other player
at that level. Personally, I have absolutely no use for his post '75
catalog, but he's certainly one of my favourite musicians, I'm still
listening and enjoying some of his records 30 years after I first heard
them. If you don't like him, you don't need to prove the point, after all
it's completely subjective. Better to be honest in your tastes, than to
pretend you dig something just because the critics say it's hip, I've been
through that personally with some of the more 'outside' players, and I see
the effect where people with positions of power in the business (like
festival programmers) can actually end up defining and dictating their
audience's tastes, a dangerous and ludicrous situation for an art form that
claims to be so 'open' and...'free(?)'

_________________________________________________________________
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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 08 Feb 2002 14:16:52 -0500

on 02.02.08 2:11 PM, thomas chatterton at [e-mail] wrote:

> it's completely subjective. Better to be honest in your tastes, than to
> pretend you dig something just because the critics say it's hip, I've been
> through that personally with some of the more 'outside' players

You know what's horrible? I've never gone to Coltrane. I mean I've been
nearly everywhere else, but JC has always left me cold, wanting to hear
something else... never got to Sun Ra either... Weird, huh?

What the *hell* is wrong with me???

Best,
RL
----------
[  All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k  ]

Sessionographies :
CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.

Discographies :
COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN.

Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag;
ETC.,
----------
*** THINGS 4 SALE ***  [Updated: 01.12.01]
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/ChipsInCashing.html




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "carlos torres" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 08 Feb 2002 11:20:41 -0800

>I too think 'Kind of Blue' is slightly overrated.  A very good album
>but I am not sure why there is such an obsession about this
>particular album.


one thing that i always wonder is how serious jazz fans can call this album
the "best jazz album EVER." to say such a thing is like saying jazz was
simply a musical time period that has since stopped and we can examine in
retrospect.

_________________________________________________________________
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http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 08 Feb 2002 11:25:16 -0800

>>>What the *hell* is wrong with me???<<<

Had I not seen Sun Ra *live* 6 times, I might not have gone there
either. No recording even comes close.

Regarding Coltrane, something *terrible* is wrong with you.




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ryan Novak <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Luttenbachers again / 'New York is Now' book
Date: 08 Feb 2002 11:39:39 -0800 (PST)

>unbelievably, an article on Weasel Walter and the
>recently discussed-here
>Flying Luttenbachers in the recent issue of Jazziz.
>Not only is it possibly
>the first non-pejorative mention I have ever seen of
>death metal in a
>magazine like this (hooray, somebody's got his ears
>open!), there are some
>interesting quotes about the sometime-predictability
>of improv today, even
>by such acknowledged masters as Lovens, Gustafsson,
>etc.


Maybe if Lovens and Gustafsson wore more stage makeup,
Weasel wouldn't consider them as predictable.  I
dunno, he's right to take a jab at some of these guys,
because there really is a kiss-ass community
surrounding them for the most part that doesn't
exactly challenge them, but Weasel's visions are also
a bit narrow- he's energy and seemingly nothing but
(and it just drives home the point that he calls
Vandermark "smooth jazz" because he does any slow
tunes at all).  Weasel probably takes more than his
fair share of criticism himself, but what do you
expect when you say you want to shoot Rosie O'Donnel
and every album he does is promoted with ridiculous
hyperbole.  Talk about predictable- which album was
the one where free jazz was killed?  Which was the one
where the destruction of the human race was begun?


---Ryan Novak



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Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 08 Feb 2002 12:03:49 -0800


On Fri, 08 Feb 2002 11:20:41 -0800  "carlos torres" wrote:
>
> >I too think 'Kind of Blue' is slightly overrated.  A very good album
> >but I am not sure why there is such an obsession about this
> >particular album.
>
>
> one thing that i always wonder is how serious jazz fans can call this album
> the "best jazz album EVER." to say such a thing is like saying jazz was
> simply a musical time period that has since stopped and we can examine in
> retrospect.

You are very lucky to have metaphysical problems that can be solved so
easily. Here is the answer to your everlasting quest:

    If you ask jazz fans what unique record they would keep if
    they had to make such a choice, what whould they choose?

Many will say: KIND OF BLUE. Now free to you to dismiss these jazz fans as
non-serious.

Great compositions, great playing, perfect timing, what is missing to make
this record a good contender to "best jazz album EVER" in your mind?

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Fwd: RE: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 08 Feb 2002 15:22:21 -0500

>> Great compositions, great playing, perfect timing, what is missing to
make this record a good contender to "best jazz album EVER" in your
mind?

I think the compositions are lacking, IMHO.  The compositions sound like
they are meant to not be heard, which does a great disservice to these
great players that normally command one's attention.  The playing is
superb, I will give you that.  I was blown away when I looked the
transcriptions of the sax solos (both Coltrane and Adderly).  Though, I
think all involved have done playing that has been the equal to even
superior to the playing on this album, but in a more interesting
setting. I can say that for Coltrane and Miles.  My knowledge of
Cannonball, Bill Evans, et al is lacking, so I'll be quiet now.

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 08 Feb 2002 15:27:55 EST


--part1_175.3489829.29958ecb_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Since we seem to be in the cyber confessional, I haven't been able to get
into Sonny Rollins.  I own maybe ten of his CDs and I never ever crave a
single one.  I pull them out periodically to see if my ears are ready for him
but they never seem to be.  Seeing him live did little to help.

Tom

NP: The Complete Blue Note Recordings of Herbie Nichols, Disc One

In a message dated 2/8/02 2:19:20 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> You know what's horrible? I've never gone to Coltrane. I mean I've been
> nearly everywhere else, but JC has always left me cold, wanting to hear
> something else... never got to Sun Ra either... Weird, huh?
>
> What the *hell* is wrong with me???
>
> Best,
> RL
>


______________________________________________________________________
Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately,
and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music."

--part1_175.3489829.29958ecb_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Since we seem to be in the cyber confessional, I haven't been able to get into Sonny Rollins.  I own maybe ten of his CDs and I never ever crave a single one.  I pull them out periodically to see if my ears are ready for him but they never seem to be.  Seeing him live did little to help.  <BR>
<BR>
Tom<BR>
<BR>
NP: The Complete Blue Note Recordings of Herbie Nichols, Disc One<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 2/8/02 2:19:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">You know what's horrible? I've never gone to Coltrane. I mean I've been<BR>
nearly everywhere else, but JC has always left me cold, wanting to hear<BR>
something else... never got to Sun Ra either... Weird, huh?<BR>
<BR>
What the *hell* is wrong with me???<BR>
<BR>
Best,<BR>
RL<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________________________<BR>
Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately, and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music."</FONT></HTML>

--part1_175.3489829.29958ecb_boundary--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: brian olewnick's musings/boring old masada
Date: 08 Feb 2002 20:43:41 +0000



as an afterthought ...

i, too, saw chamber masada at victo last year, a set brian'o called
predictable. for me it was nothing but. i always enjoy the masadas, but
often pass them by, thinking i already know what they're up to. thus i
hadn't seen the group in a while prior to the victo matinee. i thought it
was great. really high energy. much harder playing than i anticipated, or
than is reflected on record. i'm not sure the world needs more masada discs,
but a live chamber would be a good idea.

a solo guitar masada record by tim sparks would be a better idea.

kg

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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: boring old miles
Date: 08 Feb 2002 20:47:57 +0000



in an effort to get the talk off of m'davis, whose yet to floor me, here's 2
proposed threads:

what records have best stood the test of time? not just the best records,
but the ones that retain they're freshness. i was listening to 'the big
gundown' the other day, and was amazed at how alive it still is.

what instrumentalists use words the best? (it's the writer in me.) i
nominate threadgill and tim berne as best at naming
records/compositions/bands.

ok.

kurt

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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Miles
Date: 08 Feb 2002 21:52:19 +0100

Some people on the list mention not being very interested or convinced
by Miles. Hey, that's fine!

May I suggest checking out a couple rarely mentioned albums?
-"Live at the Plugged Nickel" (live, 1965, with Shorter, Tony Williams,
Hancock, Carter at their burningest...real hot and inspired).
-"On the Corner" (studio, 1972, with McLaughlin, Cobham, Corea,
etc...also red hot and inspired, but while the first album is pure jazz,
this, y'all, is nasty, eclectic psycho-fonk).

I think the reason "Kind of Blue" (like "In a Silent Way") is so popular
is that it has a consensual quality: it does'nt scare away non-jazz
heads; it stays open, in a way that Satie's "Gymnopedies" also does. In
that sense it's the ultimate anti-bebop statement. It does'nt jump at
you with a million tormented riffs. And that is what was also
revolutionary to the connaisseurs: it brought about a radical
simplification in the approach to improvisation. No longer based on
embellished melody, no longer based on rapidly moving arpeggios
connected to chord changes, this was about the colors of the modes, or
scales, developped freely within a looser, wider framework. More about
the senses than about some tune, or some guy's chops (although there was
plenty of that as well). Think of Matisse's way of laying this red all
over the background of a painting, or cutting and pasting figures out of
pure blue paper. Less is More.
I think he searched for radical simplicity all his life and found it in
a different way with the James Brown-influenced electric works (68-75):
no more chord changes, more music!

Best,
DY.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Robert Pleshar <[e-mail]>
Subject: Time and words
Date: 08 Feb 2002 15:11:44 -0600

As for words, I've got to agree on Threadgill, I love his titles and even like
the poems in some of the CD booklets and record sleeves. I also like some of
Philip Johnston's titles and I've always enjoyed the Boredoms fractured english
titles.

Records that stand the test of time.
I'm going with Threadgill's sextet records, specifically "Subject to Change"
and "You Know the Number" I think are both really wonderful and sound like they
could have been made any time in the past 30 years and I keep digging little
nuances out of them whenever I listen to them. I'll also pick "Locus Solus"
(Zorn), "Double Nickels on the Dime" (Minutemen) and "Night of the Purple Moon"
(Sun Ra)  for starters.


Rob


Quoting Kurt Gottschalk <[e-mail]>:

>
>
> in an effort to get the talk off of m'davis, whose yet to floor me, here's 2
>
> proposed threads:
>
> what records have best stood the test of time? not just the best records,
> but the ones that retain they're freshness. i was listening to 'the big
> gundown' the other day, and was amazed at how alive it still is.
>
> what instrumentalists use words the best? (it's the writer in me.) i
> nominate threadgill and tim berne as best at naming
> records/compositions/bands.
>
> ok.
>
> kurt
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>
> -
>



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: boring old miles
Date: 08 Feb 2002 13:16:04 -0800

on 2/8/02 12:47 PM, Kurt Gottschalk at [e-mail] wrote:

> what records have best stood the test of time? not just the best records,
> but the ones that retain they're freshness. i was listening to 'the big
> gundown' the other day, and was amazed at how alive it still is.

"In A Mist" -- Bix Beiderbecke
"Tonk" -- Ellington/Strayhorn piano duet
"Parker's Mood" -- Charlie Parker
Bill Frisell -- This Land
Curtis Mayfield -- Superfly
Johnny Guitar Watson -- any of the 50s stuff
Miles Davis -- Milestones
anything by the 60s Monk quartet with Rouse
Revolver -- The Beatles
"Don't Let It Be In Vain" -- The 5 Royales
"Port Of Call" -- Cecil Taylor
John Zorn -- Spillane
anything by Bill Monroe with either Earl Scruggs or Jimmy Martin on it
the Ray Charles Atlantic catalog en toto
the Burt Bacharach Dionne records
Pet Sounds -- The Beach Boys
"Beautfiful Moons Ago" -- the King Cole Trio
Joe Henderson -- any of his 60s stuff
Sonny Rollins -- Saxophone Colossus
anything Muddy Waters cut his first five years on Chess
ditto for Howlin' Wolf and Little Walter
Charles Ives 4th Symphony (espec the Tilson-Thomas recording, for my tastes)
either Glenn Gould recording of the Goldberg Variations
anything by Nervous Norvous
Entertainment! -- Gang Of Four
anything by the Minutemen
anything by X
Fire Of Love -- Gun Club
any RCA Victor Spkike Jones
One Size Fits All -- Zappa
Rip, Rig, & Panic -- Roland Kirk
One Great Day -- Ellery Eskelin
any record with Joey Baron
Herbie Hancock -- The Prisoner
>
> what instrumentalists use words the best? (it's the writer in me.) i
> nominate threadgill and tim berne as best at naming
> records/compositions/bands.
Zappa and Carla Bley are my personal favorite namers of things

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: boring old miles
Date: 08 Feb 2002 16:16:39 -0500

> what instrumentalists use words the best? (it's the writer in me.) i
> nominate threadgill and tim berne as best at naming
> records/compositions/bands.

My vote would go to Ornette Coleman...

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: dick hyman
Date: 08 Feb 2002 16:34:05 -0500

Hyman also runs an enjoyable, important and undervalued series here in New
York at the 92nd Street Y every July, providing a much needed and welcome
showcase for traditional jazz musicians old and new (the Vaches, Harry
Allen, Scotts Hamilton and Robinson, etc.), who are actually much less
welcome in the nightclubs than you might think.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Curlew, "Cold Ride," 'Meet the Curlews' (Cuneiform)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: alasnoaxis
Date: 08 Feb 2002 16:37:18 -0500

Precisely the show to which I was referring. That's the only time I've seen
Pain Killer, actually.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Curlew, "Cold Ride," 'Meet the Curlews' (Cuneiform)

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2002 2:57 PM

On Tue, 05 Feb 2002 18:43:33 -0500  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> >On the other side, I kind of like him in contexts where he is a guest
(like
> >with Laswell, of a great Painkiller show at the KF).
>
> Was that the show where part of his solo was sticking the end of the
guitar
> chord in his mouth? The one where Mick Harris tried to get Lee Dorrian to
> come up out of the audience and join them \\\"for old times\\\' sake,\\\"
to
>  no avail?

I don' think so. The concert I attended was the one part of the 40th
birthday
month at the KF.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: zornlist death, bump, sun ra
Date: 08 Feb 2002 13:49:13 -0800


Lester Bangs once wrote something to the effect of, "How can people listen
to Eric Dolphy, when he has that ridiculous bump on his forehead?" In
context, this apparently meant to chastise the poseurs who thought they
were doing the hip thing by following Dolphy. In fact, it was not a
judgement at all on Dolphy, who I think Bangs dug....

>>Zachary Steiner, a Kind of Blue naysayer, wrote:  I was blown away when I
looked the
transcriptions of the sax solos (both Coltrane and Adderly)<<

I've sometimes found seeing John Cage's scores more interesting than
hearing them played, but Coltrane and  Cannonball?!

I feel dizzy. There is a ridiculous bump growing on my forehead. I long to
see the bebop progressions Miles famously wrote on matchbook covers in
nightclubs after he first arrived in New York.

Or is it just the decline of the zornlist, this limp wristed chucking of
mud we read day-in and day-out now?

Martin

p.s. Previte's Bump was received here with considerable anticipation, given
the players and given my affection for Weather Clear, Track Fast. It has
now been set aside with some disappointment. Not a BAD CD, just nothing
very memorable to these ears. Maybe if I could see the transcriptions....

p.p.s agreed, sun ra was so much a live phenomenon.
mindblowing.transcendental even, occasionally. the recordings are
approximations....




.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Alan Kayser" <[e-mail]>
Subject: AMM, Miles, Previte & nostalgia
Date: 08 Feb 2002 16:52:32 -0500

William York wrote

"Hmmm, I saw AMM last year, and only owning a couple of their discs, they
did
pretty much exactly what I expected. "

Yes, AMM has, IMHO, become somewhat predictable.  I guess being together as
a trio for 20 years can do this to even the most unpredictable of musicians.
  I suppose this is one reason why freely improvising musicians don't stay
in one setting for too long, other than AMM and the Schlippenbach Trio.  The
ST has lasted some 30 years, and seems to be going stronger than ever (see
their latest, the great Swingin the Bim on FMP).  But, again IMHO, AMM has
immersed themselves in this somewhat trance like music.  Perhaps that's the
point, but I miss the excitement that comes through on recordings like
Laminal, Allentown, etc.
*********************************
Zachary Steiner wrote...

"Kind of Blue was the second Miles album that I bought.  Birth of the
Cool was the first ( I liked it b/c I was into Gerry Mulligan at the
time).  I turned Kind of Blue and on expected to be blown away having
heard the hype.  What did I hear? Elevator music!"

Oh, man.  It's time to get away from the Zorn list.  Seriously...elevator
music?   You somewhat redeemed yourself with the Bitches Brew statement.  As
for BB, that was the first Miles I ever bought.  Followed closely by Tony
Williams Lifetime "Emergency."  I remember thinking, having previously
thought Cream and Hendrix were IT (this was in the late 60s for all you
young dudes), WHAT IS THIS!!!  Nothing has come close to the impact on me as
those two had way back when (with the possible exception of the first
Weather Report).  I suppose that records like these are steeped in
nostalgia, perhaps the younger generation cannot understand the impact, much
like hearing the Hot Fives, Charlie Parker, Love Supreme, or even The
Beatles for that matter.  You kinda had to be there.  So I understand your
lack of interest in Kind of Blue.  Just try to listen to it has a
groundbreaker, much as In a Silent Way, BB, or Sgt. Pepper.  One thing to
remember about KoB is that it is the #1 selling jazz album of all time.  I
dare say lots of those LPs/CDs etc are owned by people who don't own another
jazz recording.  Why this one?  Because everyone says it's the best of all
time.  I agree that it is a classic, but it's not the Miles I reach for;
from that period I prefer Milestones and Round About Midnight.  Just as I
wouldn't go first for A Love Supreme, and prefer the Village Vanguard sets.

*******************************************

mwoowor wrote

"Um - quite a few of you have been singing the praises of Bobby Previte
lately (justifiably so) but no one responded to my enquiry about his new
Bump
the Renaisance release...has no one out there in Zorn land heard it y"

That's because the official release date has been delayed.

***************************************

And finally, to Marcin:

I find Uri Caine and Bobby Previte to be as interesting as anyone on the
current scene, including JZ.  Bobby, like Zorn, has juggled many bands, some
at the same time.  He's had Bump the Renaissance as his sort of straight
ahead jazz group, Weather Clear Track Fast I'd term nu-bop, Empty Suits as
"world", Latin for Travelers is his rockin bar band, Ponga is, well, not
easy to categorize, and a few ad hocs added on.  His dynamite The Horse is
still sadly unreleased.  The bands are great, the compositions quite strong.
  Anyone who was there for his 3 day anniversary celebration at the KF will
attest to his diverse talents.

Enough
Alan Kayser








William York wrote
"Hmmm, I saw AMM last year, and only owning a couple of their discs, they
did
pretty much exactly what I expected. "

Yes, AMM has, IMHO, become somewhat predictable.  I guess being together as
a trio for 20 years can do this to even the most unpredictable of musicians.
  I suppose this is one reason why freely improvising musicians don't stay
in one setting for too long, other than AMM and the Schlippenbach Trio.  The
ST has lasted some 30 years, and seems to be going stronger than ever (see
their latest, the great Swingin the Bim on FMP).  But, again IMHO, AMM has
imersed themselves in this somewhat trance like music.  Perhaps that's the
point, but I miss the excitement that comes through on recordings like
Laminal, Allentown, etc.

Zachary Steiner wrote...

"Kind of Blue was the second Miles album that I bought.  Birth of the
Cool was the first ( I liked it b/c I was into Gerry Mulligan at the
time).  I turned Kind of Blue and on expected to be blown away having
heard the hype.  What did I hear? Elevator music!"

Oh, man.  It's time to get away from the Zorn list.  Seriously...elevator
music?   You somewhat redeemed yourself with the Bitches Brew statement, so
I guess you weren't crazed for too long.  As for BB, that was the first
Miles I ever bought.  Followed closely by Tony Williams Lifetime
"Emergency."  I remember thinking, having previously thought Cream and
Hendrix were IT (this was in the late 60s for all you young dudes), WHAT IS
THIS!!!  Nothing has come close to the impact on me as those two had way
back when (with the possible exception of the first Weather Report).  I
suppose that records like these are steeped in nostalgia, perhaps the
younger generation cannot understand the impact, much like hearing the Hot
Fives, Charlie Parker, Love Supreme, or even The Beatles for that matter.
You kinda had to be there.  So I understand your lack of interest in Kind of
Blue.  Just try to listen to it has a groundbreaker, much as In a Silent
Way, BB, or Sgt. Pepper.







_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 08 Feb 2002 16:53:59 -0500

on 02.02.08 3:27 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

> Since we seem to be in the cyber confessional, I haven't been able to get
> into Sonny Rollins.  I own maybe ten of his CDs and I never ever crave a
> single one.  I pull them out periodically to see if my ears are ready for him
> but they never seem to be.

Yup, same deal-- I've got probably three dozen Coltrane discs, but the only
ones I ever go for are the ones where I can hear Dolphy.


RL
----------
[  All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k  ]

Sessionographies :
CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.

Discographies :
COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN.

Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag;
ETC.,
----------
*** THINGS 4 SALE ***  [Updated: 01.12.01]
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/ChipsInCashing.html




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Luttenbachers again / 'New York is Now' book
Date: 08 Feb 2002 16:58:25 -0500

Phil brings a great deal of enthusiasm to everything he does, and as a death
metal kid who was indoctrinated into ecstatic jazz as a rather late point,
it's all new to him and he captures the breathless sense of discovery quite
effectively. He writes without the typical jaded-critic blinders, and if
occasionally I find his opinions deeply misguided (whether he's calling
Derek Bailey "autistic" and suggesting he should work with other players
more often, or claiming that the horrible Diane Schuur is the best jazz
singer currently in practice), I still admire his spunk. Besides, he
introduced me to Meshuggah, Cryptopsy and Strapping Young Lad, among others.

That said, 'New York Is Now' is exactly as problematic as reported. The
Zorn-bashing aside, Phil's vituperative attitude towards several of his
would-be journalistic peers was far beyond the pale (accusing Howard Mandel
of "vigorously fellating Wynton Marsalis at every opportunity" is but one
example), and he's simply not knowledgeable enough to have avoided a number
of serious errors. As a chronicle of a highly selective slice of the
contemporary jazz scene, however, the book has its merits, and is at its
strongest when letting the musicians speak for themselves.

Phil, who I like very much personally, once told me that he aimed to be the
Lester Bangs of jazz journalism. His biggest problem is that he has
absolutely no idea what that actually means. Given time, however, I have
little doubt that he could be a very productive voice on the scene. And
Mandel, for his part, has offered up the olive branch and included Phil on
several panel discussions since publication.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Curlew, "Lemon Bitter," 'Meet the Curlews' (Cuneiform)

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of William York
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 6:26 AM


In reference to my last post ... Speaking of jazz writers "shaking things
up" (not that you are strictly a "jazz writer" Mr. Cain), there is, somewhat
unbelievably, an article on Weasel Walter and the recently discussed-here
Flying Luttenbachers in the recent issue of Jazziz. Not only is it possibly
the first non-pejorative mention I have ever seen of death metal in a
magazine like this (hooray, somebody's got his ears open!), there are some
interesting quotes about the sometime-predictability of improv today, even
by such acknowledged masters as Lovens, Gustafsson, etc.

So, I am wondering, since this article is written by Phil Freeman -- who I
had originally dismissed b/c of all the slams directed at his book "New York
is Now" -- is this book worthwhile? From what I hear there is a lot of
Zorn-bashing and stuff like that, but anyway, has anyone here read it? if
so, thoughts/comments???

Thanks,

WY

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


-


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zornlist death, bump, sun ra
Date: 08 Feb 2002 17:00:20 -0500

on 02.02.08 4:49 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail]
wrote:

> "How can people listen
> to Eric Dolphy, when he has that ridiculous bump on his forehead?"

I've a similar bump, or lump. It's a subcutaneous cyst. In some rare cases
these can grow out into horns. Anyone ever read "Mr. Wilson's Cabinet of
Wonder"???


RL
----------
[  All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k  ]

Sessionographies :
CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.

Discographies :
COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN.

Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag;
ETC.,
----------
*** THINGS 4 SALE ***  [Updated: 01.12.01]
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/ChipsInCashing.html




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 08 Feb 2002 14:06:15 -0800

on 2/8/02 1:53 PM, Rick Lopez at [e-mail] wrote:

>> Since we seem to be in the cyber confessional, I haven't been able to get
>> into Sonny Rollins.  I own maybe ten of his CDs and I never ever crave a
>> single one.  I pull them out periodically to see if my ears are ready for him
>> but they never seem to be.

Sonny has made way more records than he should.  It took me years to find
the stuff that really hooked me onto him.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zornlist death, bump, sun ra
Date: 08 Feb 2002 14:08:26 -0800

on 2/8/02 1:49 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

>>> Zachary Steiner, a Kind of Blue naysayer, wrote:  I was blown away when I
> looked the
> transcriptions of the sax solos (both Coltrane and Adderly)<<
>
> I've sometimes found seeing John Cage's scores more interesting than
> hearing them played, but Coltrane and  Cannonball?!

I still think Cannonball is the most joyous sound I've ever heard.  Yeah,
the stuff looks positively bitchen on paper (espec his solo on "Dat Dere"),
but he makes me want to hug everybody -- and not in a new age-y way, either.
In that "buy-ya-a-beer" way.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: BHP v FWJG --- WTF!?!
Date: 08 Feb 2002 17:14:19 -0500

Sad story, Skip. I'm sorry, but the well-meaning editor should be ashamed
for killing the -- your? -- piece on BHP, even if that album was not among
my personal favorites from his multifarious oeuvre. (That band was fun live,
though.)

And the marketing department at the label should be flogged or fired...
after all, could any piece on BHP truly have stopped the hemp-n-flannels
from selling out FWJG's gig like they always do? And if BHP had no gigs and
no radio in the nation's #2 market, then that -- your? -- article was likely
the only thing that would sell the disc.

Of course, the business being what it is, the marketing people at the label
are probably long gone by now. But the most embarassing thing of all was the
newspaper allowing a finished story to be stifled like that. I sincerely
doubt that the label could actually have convinced the venue and store to
pull the plug on their part of the co-op advertising. They both had far more
at stake than the label did - the label is expected to provide support, or
the store doesn't do any more co-op and the venue doesn't book the artist.
(Of course, that's also a Catch-22, because right at that moment, everyone
wanted a piece of the FWJG.)

What a business. Ugly from start to finish. Did the -- your? -- piece on BHP
ever appear?

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Curlew, "Lemon Bitter," 'Meet the Curlews' (Cuneiform)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: crymad <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: BHP v FWJG --- WTF!?!
Date: 08 Feb 2002 14:28:10 -0800



Steve Smith wrote:
>
> What a business. Ugly from start to finish. Did the -- your? -- piece on BHP
> ever appear?

More interestingly, would it have appeared originally had the label not
been contacted for a photo (or whatever it was that was requested)?  If
so, would the label have been displeased after the fact?

--crymad

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: 'New York is Now' book
Date: 08 Feb 2002 17:47:13 -0500 (EST)

Yes,

But besides the problematic prose ...

It does have a matchless collection of wonderful black
and white photos of a clutch of New York's best
"outside" musicians in action.

Ken Waxman

--- Steve Smith <[e-mail]> wrote:
'New York Is Now' is exactly as
> problematic as reported.

=====
Ken Waxman
[e-mail]
www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos

______________________________________________________________________
Web-hosting solutions for home and business! http://website.yahoo.ca

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Accordions on Staten Island
Date: 08 Feb 2002 06:47:18 -0600

Hi,

Finally catching up with the flurry of Zorn digests & noticed the
recent discussion on accordions. Add me to the list folks who dig Guy
Klucevsek and Pauline Oliveros.  & those of you in the New York City
area might be interested in the following announcement I got from Guy
this morning:

>Dear Friends,
>Phillip Johnston and I will be playing duos together (as opposed to
>separately) Saturday night, Feb. 16, at 8 PM, at Veteran's Hall, Snug Harbor
>Cultural Center, Staten Island; in a double bill with Ben Sher's Tudo Bem.
>Tickets are $15.
>For information and directions, please call:
>718-815-SNUG
>
>GUY KLUCEVSEK/PHILLIP JOHNSTON DUO
>Guy Klucevsek, accordion/compositions
>Phillip Johnston, saxophone/compositions
>
>     For over two decades, Guy Klucevsek has been plumbing the forefront at
>the intersection of contemporary classical music and world music, while
>Phillip Johnston has been investigating the overlap of jazz, blues and new
>music.   Now in a new duo, with an original repertoire written by both for
>the group, they express the overlap of intersections with wry wit,
>finger-bustin' chops and a mysterious charm that defies description. What is
>the result: Polka-Bop? Trance-Tango? Avant-Baroque?
>     You name it, you claim it.
>
>
>
>Ben Sher and Tudobem
>
>Ben Sher -guitar
>
>Valtihno Anastacio-percussion and vocals
>
>Joe Barbato-accordion
>
>Santi  DeBriano-bass
>
>     TudoBem is a Brazilian jazz group led by guitarist Ben Sher. Continuing
>in a tradition that dates back to Stan Getz inthe early 1960's, Sher and his
>group delve into the rhythms and repetoire of Brazil as a catalyst for their
>high-spirited improvisations.
>     Tudo Bem's programs include classic bossa-nova's by Baden Powell, and
>Antonios Carlos Jobim, traditional chorihnos by Pixinguinha, funky sambas by
>Djvan and Ivan Lins, and  compositions from Ben's two recordings "TudoBem'
>and "Me Leva Pro Brasil".
>     This performance of the Guy Klucevsek/Phillip Johnston Duo is made
>possible, in part, by an Encore Grant from  the Council on the Arts &
>Humanities for Staten Island, with public funding from the New York State
>Council on the Arts.
>
>Best,
>Guy
><A HREF="http://www.guyklucevsek.com">GUY KLUCEVSEK HOMEPAGE</A>
--
Herb Levy
P O Box 9369  Forth Wort, Texas  76147  USA
817  377-2983
[e-mail]





-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: boring old dead miles
Date: 08 Feb 2002 22:48:20 +0000

>From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <[e-mail]>

>in an effort to get the talk off of m'davis, whose yet to floor me, here's
>2
>proposed threads:
>
>what records have best stood the test of time?

Miles Davis, of course! And especially Bitches Brew, my initial exposure to
his boring overrated pretentious unoriginal oeuvre (first heard circa 1970
when a friend called me up, told me to come over to his house right away
'cause he had something important to show me, put the album in my hands at
the front door, and then while we were listening, and I asked him what kind
of music it was, he said, in a hushed reverential tone, "I think it's called
jazz." First time I ever heard that word!)

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: 'New York is Now' book
Date: 08 Feb 2002 17:52:12 -0500

It certainly does.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Johansson/Dorner/Neumann, "9," 'Barcelona Series' (hatOLOGY)

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 5:47 PM

But besides the problematic prose ...

It does have a matchless collection of wonderful black
and white photos of a clutch of New York's best
"outside" musicians in action.

Ken Waxman

--- Steve Smith <[e-mail]> wrote:
'New York Is Now' is exactly as
> problematic as reported.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: BHP v FWJG --- WTF!?!
Date: 08 Feb 2002 15:11:31 -0800

skip heller

> Of course, the business being what it is, the marketing people at the label
> are probably long gone by now.
They are
> But the most embarassing thing of all was the
> newspaper allowing a finished story to be stifled like that. I sincerely
> doubt that the label could actually have convinced the venue and store to
> pull the plug on their part of the co-op advertising.
The threat was enough.
> They both had far more
> at stake than the label did - the label is expected to provide support, or
> the store doesn't do any more co-op and the venue doesn't book the artist.
Yes, but the editor isn't there to put his job on the line to prove that.
> (Of course, that's also a Catch-22, because right at that moment, everyone
> wanted a piece of the FWJG.)
That too.

skip


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: DD Jackson (was: tzadik sales)
Date: 08 Feb 2002 18:46:43 -0500

Ari:

D.D.'s first RCA disc, 'So Far,' was something of a summary manifesto for
solo piano, boiling all of his formative influences (especially gospel,
Pullen and Tatum) into a pretty amazing set. The reviews were overwhelmingly
positive on that one. The second, 'Anthem,' was indicative of a new
direction, using Hammond B3 in addition to piano and backed with electric
musicians (Christian Howes's highly amplified violin, Richard Bona's
slippery electric bass), highly charged rhythms from Jack DeJohnette and
Mino Cinelu, and a couple of fine guest spots by James Carter. It was the
first time D.D.'s music ever made me realize that he and I are almost
exactly the same age and grew up on many of the same records, including
Mahavishnu and Metheny. This one got mixed reviews, but Jazziz gave it an
unqualified rave, well deserved in my opinion.If the things I mentioned are
pluses in your mind, seek it out.

The other shoe dropped after 'Anthem' - the label wanted him to be less
eclectic (holding him to a different standard than the other DD on the
roster, Mr. Douglas - "But he's a COMPOSER," they told him), and after they
asked for a Mehldau-style trio record he felt he couldn't deliver, he and
the label amicably parted ways. Interestingly, D.D. later told me that he
was suffering from an intense case of writer's block during the process of
preparing what would have been his third RCA disc, brought on by the label's
demands. The day he was released from his contract, he sat down at the piano
and the ideas flowed again.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Jeff Song and Lowbrow, "Diasporama," 'Diasporama' (Stellar)

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Ari
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2002 11:07 AM

> The only reason I bring this up is because of the two D.D. Jackson discs
we
> released during my RCA stint. [snip]

can you tell something more about these two discs?


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: DD Jackson (was: tzadik sales)
Date: 08 Feb 2002 16:03:29 -0800


On Fri, 8 Feb 2002 18:46:43 -0500  "Steve Smith" wrote:
>
> The other shoe dropped after 'Anthem' - the label wanted him to be less
> eclectic (holding him to a different standard than the other DD on the
> roster, Mr. Douglas - "But he's a COMPOSER," they told him), and after they
> asked for a Mehldau-style trio record he felt he couldn't deliver, he and
> the label amicably parted ways. Interestingly, D.D. later told me that he
> was suffering from an intense case of writer's block during the process of
> preparing what would have been his third RCA disc, brought on by the label's
> demands. The day he was released from his contract, he sat down at the piano
> and the ideas flowed again.

DD gives most of the details in DOWN BEAT of September 2001.

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: DD Jackson (was: tzadik sales)
Date: 08 Feb 2002 19:12:31 -0500

And Steve might add that D.D. has been wrestling internally with that old
classical vs. jazz battle.
Having been brought up as a classical prodigy (although he loathes the word)
and schooled to be a solo classical artist into his early 20s, he broke free
and turned abruptly to improv without realing resolving the conflict.
Around the time that RCA dropped him he "faced the demon" as he says and
returned to his hometown (and mine) to do his first classical performance in
years. Since then, he has started moving in a new direction, which attempts to
merge his two musical influences.
Lately, he has been performing some longer suite-like works that remind me a
lot of Gershwin.

James Hale

Steve Smith wrote:

> Interestingly, D.D. later told me that he
> was suffering from an intense case of writer's block during the process of
> preparing what would have been his third RCA disc, brought on by the label's
> demands. The day he was released from his contract, he sat down at the piano
> and the ideas flowed again.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Time and words
Date: 08 Feb 2002 17:26:14 -0700



>"Double Nickels on the Dime" (Minutemen)

I just borrowed this from someone...it does nothing for me.

am i missing something or am I just too young?

Matt

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zornlist death, bump, sun ra
Date: 08 Feb 2002 16:46:30 -0800

>>>I feel dizzy. There is a ridiculous bump growing on my
forehead. I long to
see the bebop progressions Miles famously wrote on matchbook
covers in
nightclubs after he first arrived in New York.

Or is it just the decline of the zornlist, this limp wristed
chucking of
mud we read day-in and day-out now?<<<

Miles expressed opinions about his earlier stuff very much in
accord with the so-called 'nay-sayers' here. He thought it was all
white-man's music and found it all embarrassing in his later
years.

Being a white man, I am very thankful for Kind of Blue. Many years
ago, before I knew very much about this music, I found Kind of
Blue and Mingus's Ah Um in a cut-out bin for $3.99 each. I knew
nothing about either recording. When the needle hit the vinyl I
was completely blown fucking away. While my tastes have become a
bit more extreme in my old age, I still get gooseflesh hearing
either of those albums. And, I'm going to find Adderley's
Somethin' Else ASAP. Tomorrow night I'll be hangin' with Eugene
Chadbourne in Ventura's City Hall. I'm going to request a rake
version of So What.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "carlos torres" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Time and words
Date: 08 Feb 2002 16:48:22 -0800

>"Double Nickels on the Dime" (Minutemen)
>
>I just borrowed this from someone...it does nothing for me.
>
>am i missing something or am I just too young?


i first heard this album when i was about 15, and didnt know what to make of
it, coming from a more straight ahead fast, loud punk mentality.  this album
didnt take too long to grow on me though, and with each listen, i have
discovered something new. my advice, if you care enough, is to let it soak
in slowly...i think its worth the time.





_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Luttenbachers again / 'New York is Now' book
Date: 08 Feb 2002 16:56:01 -0800


On Fri, 8 Feb 2002 16:58:25 -0500  "Steve Smith" wrote:
>
> That said, 'New York Is Now' is exactly as problematic as reported. The

Wasnt' the book sponsored by AUM Fidelity?

    Patrice.

PS: pissed at Phil Freeman for dissing Curve, certainly because Tony Halliday
was tasteless to the point of not hiring William Parker on a couple of tracks
of GIFT...

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zornlist death, bump, sun ra
Date: 08 Feb 2002 20:01:34 -0500

s~Z wrote:

> Miles expressed opinions about his earlier stuff very much in
> accord with the so-called 'nay-sayers' here. He thought it was all
> white-man's music and found it all embarrassing in his later
> years.

Miles said a lot of shit that he didn't mean.
Considering that Gil Evans remained his closest friend until Evans'
death, and the effort Davis put into performing that music at Montreux
just prior to his own death, I think it's obvious (and all of Davis'
biographers agree) that he did not consider his work in the mid- to
late-'50s an embarrassment.
His refusal to "look back" (at least in public) was his own way of
dealing with life.

James Hale


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "William York" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Luttenbachers again
Date: 09 Feb 2002 01:05:35

Hey, Ryan and other list members (I got some comments off list and don't
have time to respond to all -- sorry ... I shouldn't be posting this, even,
due to deadlines, etc....)

Apologies for the long post. You make good points, and some funny ones, and
I'm not trying to pick a fight. Anyway, the Luttenbachers stuff isn't
perfect, but it does raise some good questioins as to the current state of
(free) jazz/improv, and just what (not all of, but a good portion of) it is
really SAYING these days.

>Maybe if Lovens and Gustafsson wore more stage makeup,
>Weasel wouldn't consider them as predictable.

I doubt that's it. He has called Marduk (black metal band) predictable, or
something to that effect, and they wear enough face paint to cover a small
tool shed.

>dunno, he's right to take a jab at some of these guys,
>because there really is a kiss-ass community
>surrounding them for the most part that doesn't
>exactly challenge them

right, exactly. tell anyone they're great for long enough and it is bound to
make them complacent. note that he has also said many positive things about
lovens, et al. in the past

>but Weasel's visions are also
>a bit narrow- he's energy and seemingly nothing but
>(and it just drives home the point that he calls
>Vandermark "smooth jazz" because he does any slow
>tunes at all).

Well, of course that's an exaggeration. Chalk it up to one guy with an
extreme aesthetic mouthing off and, well, exaggerating. I own more albums w/
KV than w/ WW, and I still enjoy KV's music. But, I do feel that w/ the
"respectability" that has come to KV in recent years, his music has become a
bit more, well, polite. I am not confusing politeness with other factors
such as dynamics that go beyond full-blast-all-the-time, the ability to play
a ballad, etc. But I see WW's point even if calling KV smooth jazz is of
course an exaggeration (and possibly just a friendly jab at an old band
member/collaborator...).

>Weasel probably takes more than his
>fair share of criticism himself, but what do you
>expect when you say you want to shoot Rosie O'Donnel
>and every album he does is promoted with ridiculous
>hyperbole.

Ridiculous hyperbole, sure, but it comes with the territory when you're
making music such as this. Take it with a grain of salt, just like those
Tzadik obis or the grand proclamations of AUM Fidelity-type jazz supporters,
AMM/Erstwhile boosters, the over-the-top statements of war-mongering black
metal bands, etc.

>Talk about predictable-

Well, the course of their music over the years hasn't been predictable,
really.

>which album was the one where free jazz was killed?

Heh heh, That was _Trauma_ (haven't heard it yet, it's in the mail). I'll
let you know if it kills free jazz, heh heh.

>Which was the one where the destruction of the human race was begun?

Again, that's funny. It was _Gods of Chaos_. Not my fave. I feel like the
ambition outreaches the end result. Still has its moments.

But, to say that Weasel is all energy and nothing but, well, the new album
on Troubleman has some really well-written and intricate composing. My only
criticism would be that the energy level and abrasiveness are not quite on
par with something like _Destroy All Music_. But the energy that's there is
arguably being channeled more, uh, efficiently.

Thanks for reaing,

WY

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 08 Feb 2002 20:11:01 EST


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In a message dated 2/8/02 5:04:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> >> Since we seem to be in the cyber confessional, I haven't been able to get
> >> into Sonny Rollins.  I own maybe ten of his CDs and I never ever crave a
> >> single one.  I pull them out periodically to see if my ears are ready
> for him
> >> but they never seem to be.
>
> Sonny has made way more records than he should.  It took me years to find
> the stuff that really hooked me onto him.
>
> skip h
>

Enlighten me as to which ones I should hear!

Tom

NP: The Complete Candid Cecil Taylor/Buell Neidlinger, Disc One (Mosaic)

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/8/02 5:04:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">>> Since we seem to be in the cyber confessional, I haven't been able to get<BR>
>> into Sonny Rollins.  I own maybe ten of his CDs and I never ever crave a<BR>
>> single one.  I pull them out periodically to see if my ears are ready for him<BR>
>> but they never seem to be.<BR>
<BR>
Sonny has made way more records than he should.  It took me years to find<BR>
the stuff that really hooked me onto him.<BR>
<BR>
skip h<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Enlighten me as to which ones I should hear!<BR>
<BR>
Tom<BR>
<BR>
NP: The Complete Candid Cecil Taylor/Buell Neidlinger, Disc One (Mosaic)</FONT></HTML>

--part1_103.106fd092.2995d125_boundary--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 08 Feb 2002 17:35:40 -0800

> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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skip heller



>> Since we seem to be in the cyber confessional, I haven't been able to get
>> into Sonny Rollins.  I own maybe ten of his CDs and I never ever crave a
>> single one.  I pull them out periodically to see if my ears are ready for him
>> but they never seem to be.

Sonny has made way more records than he should.  It took me years to find
the stuff that really hooked me onto him.

skip h


Enlighten me as to which ones I should hear!

Tom

SAXOPHONE COLOSSUS and PLUS FOUR are the ones everyone agrees on.  Sonny's
playing unstoppably on 'em.

skip h

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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: Zorn as Miles????????</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
skip heller<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><BR>
<BR>
</FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2">>> Since we seem to be in the cyber=
 confessional, I haven't been able to get<BR>
>> into Sonny Rollins.  I own maybe ten of his CDs and I never e=
ver crave a<BR>
>> single one.  I pull them out periodically to see if my ears a=
re ready for him<BR>
>> but they never seem to be.<BR>
<BR>
Sonny has made way more records than he should.  It took me years to f=
ind<BR>
the stuff that really hooked me onto him.<BR>
<BR>
skip h<BR>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><BR>
<BR>
Enlighten me as to which ones I should hear!<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2">Tom<BR>
</FONT><BR>
SAXOPHONE COLOSSUS and PLUS FOUR are the ones everyone agrees on.  Son=
ny's playing unstoppably on 'em.<BR>
<BR>
skip h
</BODY>
</HTML>


--MS_Mac_OE_3096034540_309765_MIME_Part--


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Time and words
Date: 08 Feb 2002 17:36:55 -0800

skip heller

>> "Double Nickels on the Dime" (Minutemen)
>>
>> I just borrowed this from someone...it does nothing for me.
>>
>> am i missing something or am I just too young?
>
>
> i first heard this album when i was about 15, and didnt know what to make of
> it, coming from a more straight ahead fast, loud punk mentality.  this album
> didnt take too long to grow on me though, and with each listen, i have
> discovered something new. my advice, if you care enough, is to let it soak
> in slowly...i think its worth the time.
>
I don't think it's the best starting point as there is so much of it.
PARANOID TIME and BUZZ OR HOWL are great intros to the band.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "carlos torres" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Time and words
Date: 08 Feb 2002 18:48:16 -0800

>I don't think it's the best starting point as there is so much of it.
>PARANOID TIME and BUZZ OR HOWL are great intros to the band.


those are GREAT albums..but,double nickles...its beyond any of that..its an
entity all in its self, it hooked me on to the band and their sound and made
me search out everything else they ever put out. however, there is no real
"prerequisit" for this album...



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: hyyy gbbbb <[e-mail]>
Subject: seriously! more on bjork
Date: 08 Feb 2002 18:49:24 -0800

i hope this is not a repost.

denizens of this list may have a PhD coming their way.

(yeah, yeah, i know most of y'all have one already..)


> Apologies for cross postings. Please pass on to interested colleagues.
>=20
> CALL FOR PAPERS
>=20
> _A Pretty Rush Down My Spine: Essays on Bj=F6rk_
> Edited by Greg Hainge and Paul Attinello
>=20
> Abstracts are invited for a new collection on Bj=F6rk intended to bring an
> interdisciplinary, critical investigation to bear on all aspects of her
> music and career.
>=20
> Potential topics include but are not limited to:
> - technology and virtuality;
> - timbre / noise / sample / glitch;
> - genre and cross-genre writing;
> - anti- and hyper-pop;
> - video, film and visual images;
> - grammatical and syntactic deterritorialization;
> - experimental / minoritarian use of language;
> - internet communication and distribution;
> - cyborg / nature dichotomy;
> - post-human;
> - 'machined' vocal qualities;
> - gender models and sensuality;
> - emotivity / affectivity / sensation;
> - representations of Iceland;
> - self-representations;
> - the Sugar Cubes and soloist orientation;
> - covers / reinterpretations;
> - collaborations and special appearances;
> - critical and fan reception;
> - marketing strategy and anti-industry moves;
> - negotiations with the press.
>=20
> The editors represent the fields of cultural studies and musicology, but
> work from other fields is also welcome. A broad range of approaches,
> including critique, analysis, hermeneutics, and industry studies (or
> syntheses of any of these) are encouraged, as are collaborations,
> especially between writers working in different fields or methodologies.
>=20
> Please send abstracts and proposals (maximum 500 words) as well as a
> brief CV by June 1, 2002; we envisage that final papers will be due
> mid-January 2003. All attachments should be sent as RTF files for
> compatibility.
>=20
> All materials and inquiries should be directed to:
>=20
> [e-mail]
> and
> [e-mail]
>=20
>=20
> --
> Dr Greg Hainge, Lecturer in French
> Centre for European Studies, University of Adelaide SA 5005.
> tel: (Int. + 61) [phone], fax: [phone]
> http://www.geocities.com/ghainge/
> ******
> _Culture Theory and Critique_ Editorial Board.
> ******
> Australian Society for French Studies Publications Editor
> ******
> Australia and New Zealand Representative
> of the Soci=E9t=E9 d=92=C9tudes C=E9liniennes
>=20


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Time and words
Date: 08 Feb 2002 19:35:16 -0800

skip heller

> those are GREAT albums..but,double nickles...its beyond any of that..its an
> entity all in its self, it hooked me on to the band and their sound and made
> me search out everything else they ever put out. however, there is no real
> "prerequisit" for this album...
>
I followed them fr JOY on up, and loved 'em, and even I found DNOTD daunting
at first.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Naming
Date: 08 Feb 2002 22:54:04 -0600

>what instrumentalists use words the best? (it's the writer in me.) i
>nominate threadgill and tim berne as best at naming
>records/compositions/bands.
>

I don't know anyone who beats Sun Ra for titles.  And, of course, great lyrics.
Some favorite Sun Ra titles:  Outer Nothingness, Next Stop Mars, Outer
Space Employment Agency, Advice to Medics, Other Planes of There, Medicine
for a Nightmare and best of all, Fate In a Pleasant Mood.  And, of course,
I love how he kept renaming the Arkestra -- Intergalactic Solar Arkestra,
Year 2000 Myth Science Arkestra, Cosmo Discipline Arkestra....

I can't think offhand of anything in the jazz pantheon that I'm supposed to
like and am just indifferent to, but I never, ever understood all the
hosanas in the rock world for Michael Jackson's "Thriller."  Boring.
Michael Jackson peaked with "I'll Be There."  I always think "Thriller" was
a classic example of critics just jumping on a blockbuster bandwagon,
spilling a lot of ink to show they were in tune w/ the tenor of the times.


But maybe it's me...

Parry



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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Time and words
Date: 09 Feb 2002 00:36:04 EST


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DNOTD really repays repeated listening.  Maybe I'm just nostalgic for the
time when I listened to it sort of constantly, but I think it is really the
best thing that the Minutement ever did.

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Verdana" LANG="0">DNOTD really repays repeated listening.  Maybe I'm just nostalgic for the time when I listened to it sort of constantly, but I think it is really the best thing that the Minutement ever did.</FONT></HTML>

--part1_124.b866bec.29960f44_boundary--

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Naming
Date: 08 Feb 2002 21:56:12 -0800

skip heller

> I can't think offhand of anything in the jazz pantheon that I'm supposed to
> like and am just indifferent to, but I never, ever understood all the
> hosanas in the rock world for Michael Jackson's "Thriller."  Boring.
> Michael Jackson peaked with "I'll Be There."  I always think "Thriller" was
> a classic example of critics just jumping on a blockbuster bandwagon,
> spilling a lot of ink to show they were in tune w/ the tenor of the times.
>
OFF THE WALL is much better, I think.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Gabriel Drummer <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE:Zorn as Miles???????
Date: 08 Feb 2002 22:14:31 -0800 (PST)

    I must confess too: I could never get into Sun Ra.
And I'm not making any efforts to dig him because "I
should". Another one that nowadays sounds like a
confession: I really liked the Frisell-Holland-Jones
recording.
    About Kind of Blue, I dig it, but not even half as
I dig Milestones, or E.S.P, or Miles Smiles, or
Nefertiti, or the Plugged Nickel live CD's, or Bitches
Brew. Anyway, I recognize and respect the importance
Kind of Blues had (has) in the development of Jazz.
   One recording that seems really important to me
that hasn't been mentioned in the desert island picks,
is The blues and the abstract truth, by Oliver Nelson.
I think Saxophone colossus is also in that
freshness-kickass level, with top musicians playing
their butts off, great compositions and a lot to say,
musically.
                                        Gabe
np: Dutilleux

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Gabriel Drummer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 08 Feb 2002 22:20:47 -0800 (PST)


I must confess too: I could never get into Sun Ra. And
I'm not making any efforts to dig him because "I
should". Another one that nowadays sounds like a
confession: I really liked the Frisell-Holland-Jones
recording.
    About Kind of Blue, I dig it, but not even half as
I dig Milestones, or E.S.P, or Miles Smiles, or
Nefertiti, or the Plugged Nickel live CD's, or Bitches
Brew. Anyway, I recognize and respect the importance
Kind of Blues had (has) in the development of Jazz.
   One recording that seems really important to me
that hasn't been mentioned in the desert island picks,
is The blues and the abstract truth, by Oliver Nelson.
I think Sonny Rollins's Saxophone colossus (yes, he's
definitely made more albums than I'd have liked him
to) is also in that freshness-kickass level, with top
musicians playing their butts off, great compositions
and a lot to say, musically.
                                        Gabe
np: Dutilleux

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
Subject: Tsahar/Ragin/Kowald/Drake
Date: 09 Feb 2002 01:41:39 -0500

> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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on 2/7/02 4:35 PM, Efr=E9n del Valle at [e-mail] wrote:



Efr=E9n del Valle
n.p: Tsahar/Ragin/Kowald/Drake: "Open Systems" (Terron=E8s)

Can you tell us about this one?  I love all these players.

--Mike


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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Tsahar/Ragin/Kowald/Drake</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
on 2/7/02 4:35 PM, Efr=E9n del Valle at [e-mail] wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
 <BR>
<FONT SIZE=3D"2">Efr=E9n del Valle<BR>
n.p: Tsahar/Ragin/Kowald/Drake: "Open Systems" (Terron=E8s)<BR>
</FONT><BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE>Can you tell us about this one?  I love all these players=
.<BR>
<BR>
--Mike<BR>
</BODY>
</HTML>


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Blues and the Abstract Truth [was RE: Zorn as Miles????????]
Date: 09 Feb 2002 01:40:37 -0500

Easily one of the freshest albums I've ever heard, and one I turn to time
and time again for great pleasure. (Jeez, that sounded very "Penguin Guide,"
but I can't think of a more appropriate way to phrase it...) Great band,
great charts, and one of the most single jazz compositions of all time in
"Stolen Moments" (and "Hoe-Down," though a tad corny, is not far behind). It
belongs in the pantheon of truly great jazz LPs, but I think it gets
overlooked by many because Nelson -- though fairly consistently fine --
never hit the same exalted level again.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Gabriel Drummer
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 1:21 AM

One recording that seems really important to me
that hasn't been mentioned in the desert island picks,
is The blues and the abstract truth, by Oliver Nelson.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Blues and the Abstract Truth [was RE: Zorn as Miles????????]
Date: 08 Feb 2002 23:05:44 -0800

skip heller

> Easily one of the freshest albums I've ever heard, and one I turn to time
> and time again for great pleasure. (Jeez, that sounded very "Penguin Guide,"
> but I can't think of a more appropriate way to phrase it...) Great band,
> great charts, and one of the most single jazz compositions of all time in
> "Stolen Moments" (and "Hoe-Down," though a tad corny, is not far behind). It
> belongs in the pantheon of truly great jazz LPs, but I think it gets
> overlooked by many because Nelson -- though fairly consistently fine --
> never hit the same exalted level again.
>
> Steve Smith

I also think it's Dolphy's best straight-ahead playing on any record.  And
the way Bill Evans changes behind each soloist... whew.  Definitely one of
those indispensible things.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 08 Feb 2002 23:08:47 -0800

skip heller

>
> I must confess too: I could never get into Sun Ra. And
> I'm not making any efforts to dig him because "I
> should".
Sun Ra is an example of where making too many records will turn even the
most receptive listener off.  But he's done so much great stuff that I can't
help but think you'll find some stuff in there that you'll go for.  I only
came to him via his doo-wop singles, then I kind of went, "Oh...".

And I agree with you about MILESTONES.  That record still excites me down to
my toes like almost no other.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: boring old miles
Date: 09 Feb 2002 12:23:28 +0100



Kurt Gottschalk wrote:

> what records have best stood the test of time? not just the best records,
> but the ones that retain they're freshness. i was listening to 'the big
> gundown' the other day, and was amazed at how alive it still is.
>

Good question...

Here are some of the recordings I can think of off the top of my head:

The Cure, Pornography
Naked City, Torture Garden
Edgar VarΦse, Complete Works
Miles Davis, Kind Of Blue
John Zorn, Naked City
Underground Resistance, most of their 12" vinyl EPs
Ennio Morricone, most of his stuff that I know

Plus many more, I guess - but my brain capacity is very limited...

np: Gillespie / Parker et al., Massey Hall
nr: Alex Kerr, Dogs & Demons


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Blues and the Abstract Truth [was RE: Zorn as Miles????????]
Date: 09 Feb 2002 07:05:57 -0500

on 02.02.09 1:40 AM, Steve Smith at [e-mail] wrote:

> Great band,
> great charts, and one of the most single jazz compositions of all time in
> "Stolen Moments" (and "Hoe-Down," though a tad corny, is not far behind). It
> belongs in the pantheon of truly great jazz LPs, but I think it gets
> overlooked by many because Nelson -- though fairly consistently fine --
> never hit the same exalted level again.

And the solos Nelson hits are about perfectly constructed. So logical, so
flowing.

Good call Gabriel,
RL
----------
[  All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k  ]

Sessionographies :
CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.

Discographies :
COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN.

Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag;
ETC.,
----------
*** THINGS 4 SALE ***  [Updated: 01.12.01]
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/ChipsInCashing.html




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Stephen Arthur <[e-mail]>
Subject: John Zorn and Byran Ferry's saxaphone
Date: 09 Feb 2002 05:07:41 -0800 (PST)

Hi,

Do you think that John Zorn's saxaphone was influence
by Do The Strand?  I was always wondering this since I
bought a John Zorn cd.

Thanks.


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 08 Feb 2002 07:27:23 +0100

HI,

I'm glad to see that I'm not the only sinner here: Rollins, Coltrane, Sun
Ra, ...  And I thought my problem was serious! :-)


>We're not talking about Miles' importance to you.  We're talking about his
>general importance.  Big difference.

>skip h

Sure Skip, big difference. And that's what I meant all the time and you
don't seem to understand: unimportant for me but not FOR EVERYONE. I said it
from the very beginning!

Best,

EfrΘn del Valle
n.p: Big Satan "Live at Vortex" (bootleg)




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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Alan Kayser" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Coltrane/Dolphy
Date: 09 Feb 2002 08:55:33 -0500


Rick Lopez wrote


"Yup, same deal-- I've got probably three dozen Coltrane discs, but the only
ones I ever go for are the ones where I can hear Dolphy."

I agree, Rick.  I suppose that's why I now consider the Village Vanguard box
set to be the Coltrane I reach for.  The level of excitement and variety is
much higher on these live shows than the rather (IMHO) dry and clinical
studio recordings.  Perhaps Coltrane was following Miles' dicate of
"practicing on stage" so that the material is always fresh and new, whereas
the studio recordings were worked over time and again until they were
perfect.  And Dolphy adds a warmth now present otherwise.  Dolphy had that
magic, whereas Sanders sound is close to Coltrane's, thus not enough
contrast.  Listening to the VV shows and Mingus from the 60's European
(Paris, Antibbes(?))tour convinces me that ED was the "ringer" that made
those two groups so special.

Alan Kayser


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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Tsahar/Ragin/Kowald/Drake
Date: 09 Feb 2002 00:00:07 +0100

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Tsahar/Ragin/Kowald/DrakeHi,

I've had tones of CDs to listen to lately, so I just could listen to it =
a couple of times and yesterday I lent it. However, I think I can =
already tell you go and buy it!! It's a superb free jazz album with a =
remarkable 60's flavor: In fact, the record opens with a cover of =
Ornette's "Lonely Woman" and the third track is a homage to Albert =
Ayler, if that helps. Tsahar is blowing really hard all over and, for =
the first time, I was immensely impressed by Drake's playing aside of =
his work with Peter Br=F6tzmann's Die Like a Dog. The band's playing =
won't dissappoint you, that's for sure. As you see, no great insights =
since I couldn't let it sink in, but I'd dare to recommend it without =
any reservations.

Greetings,

Efr=E9n del Valle
n.p: (as a sign of good faith on my end) Miles Davis Quintet "1965-1968"


Efr=E9n del Valle
n.p: Tsahar/Ragin/Kowald/Drake: "Open Systems" (Terron=E8s)

Can you tell us about this one?  I love all these players.

--Mike




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<HTML><HEAD><TITLE>Tsahar/Ragin/Kowald/Drake</TITLE>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hi,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I've had tones of CDs to listen to lately, so I just =
could=20
listen to it a couple of times and yesterday I lent it. However, I think =
I can=20
already tell you go and buy it!! It's a superb free jazz album with =
a=20
remarkable 60's flavor: In fact, the record opens with a cover of =
Ornette's=20
"Lonely Woman" and the third track is a homage to Albert Ayler, if =
that=20
helps. Tsahar is blowing really hard all over and, for the first time, I =

was immensely impressed by Drake's playing aside of his work with =
Peter=20
Br=F6tzmann's Die Like a Dog. The band's playing won't dissappoint you, =
that's for=20
sure. As you see, no great insights since I couldn't let it sink in, but =
I'd=20
dare to recommend it without any reservations.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Greetings,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Efr=E9n del Valle</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>n.p: (as a sign of good faith on my end) Miles Davis =
Quintet=20
"1965-1968"</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Efr=E9n del Valle<BR>n.p: Tsahar/Ragin/Kowald/Drake: =
"Open=20
Systems" (Terron=E8s)<BR></FONT><BR>Can you tell us about this one? =
 I love=20
all these players.<BR><BR>--Mike</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Miles
Date: 09 Feb 2002 16:45:28 +0100

> May I suggest checking out a couple rarely mentioned albums?

> -"On the Corner" (studio, 1972, with McLaughlin, Cobham, Corea,
> etc...also red hot and inspired, but while the first album is pure jazz,
> this, y'all, is nasty, eclectic psycho-fonk).
>
This seems to be the one that you either love or hate. It's groovy, sure,
but IMHO nothing really happens there, even for 'psycho fonk'. If you want
to go psycho, it would be better to start with Miles at Fillmore...

Regards, Remco Takken


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From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: What instrumentalists use words the best?
Date: 09 Feb 2002 16:42:50 +0100

> what instrumentalists use words the best? (it's the writer in me.) i
> nominate threadgill and tim berne as best at naming
> records/compositions/bands.
>
Canadian composer/ guitarplayer Rene Lussier completely blurred the lines
between words and music on his project Le Tresor de la Langue. Musicians on
the cd include Tom Cora and Fred Frith, the spoken word samples were
triggered live on stage by Bob Ostertag in the mid nineties.

Hans Reichel when playing the dachsophone, uses human intonation (not words)
as a big influence on his playing on this newly invented instrument.

On on of the Mingus in Europe records, one can hear Charles Mingus and Eric
Dolphy have a conversation on bassclarinet and bass, but i am not too sure,
that's what you meant...

As far as creating beautiful songtitles, Dutch reedplayer Ab Baars is still
the winner in my book. His record company is called geestgronden, songtitles
include Krang, Hamergaar and Stokdutter.

I also love the name of the group Morzelpronk, one of their cd's is called
Kl'mpenzorro.

Saxophoneplayer Dan Plonsey's own recordlabel is called
Yes, No LP.
That's 'Plonsey' spelled backwards, pretty amazing...

As for experimental vocalists (instrumentalists who use words still best!):
I love Phil Minton, he has a new cd out.
My ultimate vote would go to vocalist Jaap Blonk. Sadly enough, the
Schwitters Estate refuse to let him release The ursonate on cd, probably
because it is a superior version to that of Schwitters himself (the eighties
vinyl seldomly pops up second hand). Luckily, Blonk knows the Ursonate by
heart, so once in a while, he does it live.

 He has a beautiful jazznpoetry record out just now. It has existing poetry
on it, the title escapes me at the moment.

Blonks latest Braaxtaal cd consists of a language of his own invention, a
very realistic pastiche of Danish, Dutch and Frisian. There's not one single
word there which exists in one of above languages, but the lyrics all seem
to make sense, and go along pretty cool with the moody electro atmospere of
the Braaxtaal group.

I am quite sure Braaxtaals work is available through Cadence.
Regards, Remco Takken


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From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: events in Lund/Kopenhagen?
Date: 09 Feb 2002 16:41:24 +0000

>I am going to be in Lund, Sweden for the next couple of weeks and I was
>wondering if anyone from that region could recommend anything >interesting
>taking place. I guess even Kopenhagen is within reach, making it more
>interesting.

www.jazzhouse.dk (Mengelberg will also play there!)
www.loppen.dk
www.pumpehuset.dk
www.stengade.dk
www.vega.dk

>Too bad I'll be missing DKV here, but I will be back in time for the
>Misha Mengelberg / H. Bennink/ B. Jones/ D. Douglas concerts at the
> >BIMhuis.
>Any idea on what to expect? Similar "quiet" stuff as last year with
>M.M./J. Baron/ G. Cohen or (hopefully...) something more exciting?
>Of course Bennink is not Baron (I see flames coming...)!!!

Hey, Bennink beats Baron by a far shot, especially when it comes to playing
with Misha. This should be a very good group.

Don't get me wrong, I love Baron's playing but that guy is seriously wasting
his time. It's truly sad. Why does he play with Joe Lovano and those guys?
It's so boring. Is he invovled in any avantgarish stuff at all any more?

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From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: My latest discovery: Ethiopiques
Date: 09 Feb 2002 16:51:46 +0000

Anyvbody else been into the "Ethiopiques" serious which is released by
www.budamuique.com??

I only have volume four, which is intrumentals but it's awesome! SOme of it
is extremely funky, some of it is rather Masada-ish, and one piece pretty
much predates Portishead by 25 years!! (That might not sound like a good
thing, but it is) Also a bit of avantgaridh shrieking on the finale track.

Highly recommended!!!!!!!!!

But did anybody have a chance to check out some of the other volumes??? I'm
wondering which one to pick up next.....

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From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: My latest discovery: Ethiopiques
Date: 09 Feb 2002 12:36:39 -0500

>But did anybody have a chance to check out some of the other >volumes???

Vol 3 is usually the one singled out as best from the first batch of five.  I've heard all these but not enough to make real distinctions yet.  However I loved Mahmoud Ahmed's Ere Mela Mela when I heard it in the mid-80s; that's now Vol 7 but I haven't heard this new CD edition.

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From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: take the coltrane
Date: 09 Feb 2002 18:23:51 +0000



while everyone certainly does have a right to their opinions, not getting
coltrane? i don't get it. COLtrane? what are guys talking about? JOHN
colTRANE! criminey. it's like not getting bach. or led zeppelin. or, or
alfred hitchcock or something.

seriously, reevalute. fuh...

BALLADS/JOHNNY HARTMAN/A LOVE SUPREME/LIVE IN JAPAN (esp "Crescent")/all of
the VILLAGE VANGUARD stuff (but especially LIVE AT THE VILLAGE VANGUARD
AGAIN)/KULU SE MAMA/EXPRESSION/INTERSTELLAR SPACE/DUKE ELLINGTON?

it's, it's like i don't even know you anymore (*sniff*)

kurt

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From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: take the coltrane
Date: 09 Feb 2002 13:42:22 -0500

on 02.02.09 1:23 PM, Kurt Gottschalk at [e-mail] wrote:

>
>
> while everyone certainly does have a right to their opinions, not getting
> coltrane? i don't get it. COLtrane? what are guys talking about? JOHN
> colTRANE! criminey. it's like not getting bach. or led zeppelin. or, or
> alfred hitchcock or something.
>
> seriously, reevalute. fuh...
>
> BALLADS/JOHNNY HARTMAN/A LOVE SUPREME/LIVE IN JAPAN (esp "Crescent")/all of
> the VILLAGE VANGUARD stuff (but especially LIVE AT THE VILLAGE VANGUARD
> AGAIN)/KULU SE MAMA/EXPRESSION/INTERSTELLAR SPACE/DUKE ELLINGTON?
>
> it's, it's like i don't even know you anymore (*sniff*)

aawwww, now Kurty... easy kiddo. It's not that I don't "get" it, it's just
that he has yet to light the proverbial fire under my ass. I don't know
why... I don't know when... Idunno. I *am* perhaps too focussed down any
more.

I just don't know,
RL
----------
[  All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k  ]

Sessionographies :
CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.

Discographies :
COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN.

Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag;
ETC.,
----------
*** THINGS 4 SALE ***  [Updated: 01.12.01]
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/ChipsInCashing.html




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From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Blues and the Abstract Truth [was RE: Zorn as Miles????????]
Date: 09 Feb 2002 18:44:52 +0000

>From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>

It
>belongs in the pantheon of truly great jazz LPs, but I think it gets
>overlooked by many because Nelson -- though fairly consistently fine --
>never hit the same exalted level again.

Though he did hit that same exalted level previously, with 'Screamin' The
Blues'...

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From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Coltrane/Dolphy
Date: 09 Feb 2002 18:51:39 +0000

>From: "Alan Kayser" <[e-mail]>
>
  I suppose that's why I now consider the Village
>Vanguard box
>set to be the Coltrane I reach for.  The level of excitement and variety is
>much higher on these live shows...

Interesting comments coming through on the so-called 'jazz icons'. However,
for me, Trane took the music to an edge (and perhaps even over a precipice)
that's never been equalled with his playing on 'Live In Japan'...

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From: "Samuel Quentin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Coltrane/Dolphy
Date: 09 Feb 2002 13:04:43 -0600

hm. it's interesting to find out that coltrane hadn't lit the fires under
the asses of nearly as many as i had thought.  nice to know that ears can be
so different.
  i "got" coltrane the first time i heard it.  coltrane is the reason i am a
musician today.  and like so many others, "A Love Supreme"  changed my life.
  -Samuel

np The Canadian Brass playing Bach's Goldberg Variations

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From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Coltrane/Dolphy
Date: 09 Feb 2002 14:27:09 -0500

on 02.02.09 1:51 PM, thomas chatterton at [e-mail] wrote:

>> From: "Alan Kayser" <[e-mail]>
>>
> I suppose that's why I now consider the Village
>> Vanguard box
>> set to be the Coltrane I reach for.  The level of excitement and variety is
>> much higher on these live shows...
>
> Interesting comments coming through on the so-called 'jazz icons'. However,
> for me, Trane took the music to an edge (and perhaps even over a precipice)
> that's never been equalled with his playing on 'Live In Japan'...

This is why I often feel confused considering it-- I'm gone on the
free-form, the creative-improvised, the mayhem of the world expressed, but
the JC OUT period -- I think it may be the group sound I'm not enthralled
by, and I'm a drummer, so why am I not slain by Elvin, but I am most
definitely not slain by Elvin, and so, there I am. Nowhere.

I may get over it someday! This is my hope.
RL
----------
[  All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k  ]

Sessionographies :
CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.

Discographies :
COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN.

Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag;
ETC.,
----------
*** THINGS 4 SALE ***  [Updated: 01.12.01]
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/ChipsInCashing.html




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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers/ BRITNEY
Date: 09 Feb 2002 14:33:04 EST


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In a message dated 2/4/2002 4:55:18 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> She is in a different league. You might not like what she
> does, but to be where she is, she definitely have something.

Yeah, good looks, and friends in the right places that have money.

Jody

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/4/2002 4:55:18 PM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">She is in a different league. You might not like what she<BR>
does, but to be where she is, she definitely have something.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Yeah, good looks, and friends in the right places that have money.<BR>
<BR>
Jody</FONT></HTML>

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From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers/ BRITNEY
Date: 09 Feb 2002 14:36:59 -0500

on 02.02.09 2:33 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

>> She is in a different league. You might not like what she
>> does, but to be where she is, she definitely have something.
>
> Yeah, good looks, and friends in the right places that have money.
>
> Jody

Jody Jody Jody...


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From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Miles ("On the corner")
Date: 09 Feb 2002 20:43:58 +0100



Remco Takken a =E9crit :

> > May I suggest checking out a couple rarely mentioned albums?
>
> > -"On the Corner" (studio, 1972, with McLaughlin, Cobham, Corea,
> > etc=2E=2E=2Ealso red hot and inspired, but while the first album is pure=
 jazz,
> > this, y'all, is nasty, eclectic psycho-fonk)=2E
> >
> This seems to be the one that you either love or hate=2E It's groovy, sure=
,
> but IMHO nothing really happens there, even for 'psycho fonk'=2E If you wa=
nt
> to go psycho, it would be better to start with Miles at Fillmore=2E=2E=2E
>
> Regards, Remco Takken

2 non-musical reasons why many people, especially critics, were either pisse=
d
at this one or did'nt pay attention:
-The cover art, cheapo, unsophisticated, cartoony (opposite of "Bitches Brew=
"
or "In a Silent Way")=2E
-The absence of any credits, although the musicians were top-notch=2E
Miles was doing his <turning-my-back-to-white-intellectuals> number, and thi=
s
time he did succeed =2E=2E=2E to go unnoticed=2E=2E=2Eby whites and blacks a=
like=2E
Too bad because the music is one of the electric Miles peaks, Imho (I know
Elliott Sharp also digs this album a lot, which makes sense!)

Best,
DY=2E

>
>
> -


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Zorn DVD, Buckethead, Bjork
Date: 09 Feb 2002 14:51:16 EST


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In a message dated 2/5/2002 4:19:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

>
> First of all, I was wondering if anyone knew where to get this live DVD or
> any other live Naked City performances (DVD or VHS).

I havent been keeping up with this list lately so forgive my ignorance.... is
there actually a Naked City DVD coming out?????


In a message dated 2/5/2002 5:22:19 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> Based on my experience of three shows with his projects five years ago, I
> think it was the most self-indulgent crap I have ever seen in my whole
> life.
> I could not believe how bad it was and that's why I tried him again
> (convinced
> that it could only be the result of a bad night). Never the expression
> "tech-
> nical masturbation" had found such a perfect case to illustrate it. There
> was
> no music, no feeling, just a set of songs built the same (totally
> uninspired),
> with in the middle Buckethead throwing the most ackneyed cliches of speed
> metal guitar playing. How can somebody with such technical skills can be so
> empty might be an interesting topic for a PhD.


Come on now, don't pretend like you never masturbated and enjoyed it...
granted, you probably never did it in public (although some other great
musicians have done just that).  It intrigues me to think that this guy spent
hours and hours in his bedroom practicing and listening to Malmsteen, Randy
Rhoads, Shawn Lane, etc, honing his skills to form a uniquely defined sound.
I can dig it once in a while.  I certainly don't find it offensive to the
point I need to speak out about it.   Not that you arent entitled to do
that!!

 somebody wrote:

>>> when both Black and Chris Speed were asked "Who is one person you are
>>> still looking forward to playing with and why?" (in interviews at
>>> allaboutjazz.com), they both answered to the effect of: "Bjork.  Do I
need
>>> a reason?"

They might actually get to collaborate with her sometime.  Skuli Sverrison,
great bassist and friends with Chris and Jim, is also from Iceland and good
friends with Bjork.  I would love to hear those guys play with her.  Her
album "Homogenic" does it for me.

-Jody McAllister

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/5/2002 4:19:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR>
First of all, I was wondering if anyone knew where to get this live DVD or <BR>
any other live Naked City performances (DVD or VHS).  </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
I havent been keeping up with this list lately so forgive my ignorance.... is there actually a Naked City DVD coming out?????<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 2/5/2002 5:22:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Based on my experience of three shows with his projects five years ago, I <BR>
think it was the most self-indulgent crap I have ever seen in my whole life.<BR>
I could not believe how bad it was and that's why I tried him again (convinced<BR>
that it could only be the result of a bad night). Never the expression "tech-<BR>
nical masturbation" had found such a perfect case to illustrate it. There was<BR>
no music, no feeling, just a set of songs built the same (totally uninspired),<BR>
with in the middle Buckethead throwing the most ackneyed cliches of speed <BR>
metal guitar playing. How can somebody with such technical skills can be so<BR>
empty might be an interesting topic for a PhD.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Come on now, don't pretend like you never masturbated and enjoyed it... granted, you probably never did it in public (although some other great musicians have done just that).  It intrigues me to think that this guy spent hours and hours in his bedroom practicing and listening to Malmsteen, Randy Rhoads, Shawn Lane, etc, honing his skills to form a uniquely defined sound.  I can dig it once in a while.  I certainly don't find it offensive to the point I need to speak out about it.   Not that you arent entitled to do that!! <BR>
<BR>
 somebody wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>>> when both Black and Chris Speed were asked "Who is one person you are<BR>
>>> still looking forward to playing with and why?" (in interviews at<BR>
>>> allaboutjazz.com), they both answered to the effect of: "Bjork.  Do I need<BR>
>>> a reason?"<BR>
<BR>
They might actually get to collaborate with her sometime.  Skuli Sverrison, great bassist and friends with Chris and Jim, is also from Iceland and good friends with Bjork.  I would love to hear those guys play with her.  Her album "Homogenic" does it for me.<BR>
<BR>
-Jody McAllister</FONT></HTML>

--part1_139.926c78a.2996d7b4_boundary--

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 09 Feb 2002 15:02:30 EST

In a message dated 2/8/02 9:31:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Kind of Blue was the second Miles album that I bought.  Birth of the
 Cool was the first ( I liked it b/c I was into Gerry Mulligan at the
 time).  I turned Kind of Blue and on expected to be blown away having
 heard the hype.  What did I hear? Elevator music!  I relegated it to the
 inoffensive list of CDs I listen to when I sleep. >>

_KoB_ was also one of my early Miles albums too, but I got it *after* buying
most of the 70's stuff.  Got to admit that this is the first time I've seen
the album under the "elevator music" moniker.  Sex music maybe, but elevator
music?  Hmmm...explains that warm feeling riding up to the 39th floor...

--
np: Alamaailman Vasarat- Vasaraasia

=dg=

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles???????
Date: 09 Feb 2002 15:02:31 EST

In a message dated 2/9/02 1:15:25 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<<     I must confess too: I could never get into Sun Ra.
 And I'm not making any efforts to dig him because "I
 should". >>

Wow.  None?  I must admit a preference to his "composed/big-band" stuff over
the free-blowing albums.   I'm not dissing you in the least, but I'd think
that anyone into any kind jazz could find a few Ra albums to enjoy out of his
vast oeuvre.  Have you tried the early Delmark-label albums?  Classics, those.

--
np: Shrubbies- Memphis in Texas

=dg=

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Previte
Date: 09 Feb 2002 15:02:30 EST

In a message dated 2/8/02 11:15:45 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Um - quite a few of you have been singing the praises of Bobby Previte
 lately (justifiably so) but no one responded to my enquiry about his new
Bump
 the Renaisance release...has no one out there in Zorn land heard it yet?  >>

I missed it!  I'd be interested in an opinion too...that one on Sound Aspects
is right up there in the "classics" range.

Wow...Sound Aspects...what a supurb label *that* one was.

--
np: Alamaailman Vasarat- Vasaraasia

=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: What instrumentalists use words the best?
Date: 09 Feb 2002 15:02:32 EST

Fred Katz/Ken Nordine gets my nod.

--
np: Shrubbies- Memphis in Texis

=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: My latest discovery: Ethiopiques
Date: 09 Feb 2002 15:02:32 EST

In a message dated 2/9/02 11:52:35 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Anyvbody else been into the "Ethiopiques" serious which is released by
 www.budamuique.com?? >>

Steve F. at Wayside Music first pointed out this series to me...on this
listserv, I think.  I agree- it's a darned fine one too, and fairly easy to
find, unlike many African music compilation series I've searched for.  I'm a
bit behind with them as I've only picked up through Vol. 5.

Do wish that Dakar Sound-label stuff from the 80's had been a bit easier to
find.  It has/had similarities to the _Ethiopiques_ stuff to my ears, but
with a great psychedelic edge.

--
np: Shrubbies- Memphis in Texas

=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers/ BRITNEY
Date: 09 Feb 2002 15:03:41 EST


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In a message dated 2/9/2002 2:38:46 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> on 02.02.09 2:33 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:
>
> >> She is in a different league. You might not like what she
> >> does, but to be where she is, she definitely have something.
> >
> > Yeah, good looks, and friends in the right places that have money.
> >
> > Jody
>
> Jody Jody Jody...

I'm not sure what to infer.....

-Jody

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/9/2002 2:38:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">on 02.02.09 2:33 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> She is in a different league. You might not like what she<BR>
>> does, but to be where she is, she definitely have something.<BR>
> <BR>
> Yeah, good looks, and friends in the right places that have money.<BR>
> <BR>
> Jody<BR>
<BR>
Jody Jody Jody...</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
I'm not sure what to infer.....<BR>
<BR>
-Jody</FONT></HTML>

--part1_4a.64d9662.2996da9d_boundary--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers/ BRITNEY/ JAZZIZ
Date: 09 Feb 2002 15:15:37 EST


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In a message dated 2/9/2002 3:09:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> Sorry, I'm just being silly. It's that Cary Grant line from I can't remember
> which movie. It's a sort of "tsk-tsk-tsk" which means I like Bjork alot and
> was trying to humiliate you in front of the entire planet... I'm just
> kidding. I'm taking pills, I can say anything I want for the next few
> days... ;-)

Dude, what i said was in response to what Patrice said about Britney
Spears... not Bjork !!!!!!!!!
I got the Carey Grant reference ;)   I sent this back to the Z-list to make
sure no one else though i was ragging on Bjork, who i love.....

BTW, whats up with JAZZIZ ?  I dont read jazz publications often, but i
picked up a recent issue with Diana Krall on the cover.  She appears to me to
be the Britney Spears of jazz.... although i'll give her the benefit of the
doubt that she CAN actually sing....

-Jody

--part1_14f.89fe2f1.2996dd69_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/9/2002 3:09:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Sorry, I'm just being silly. It's that Cary Grant line from I can't remember<BR>
which movie. It's a sort of "tsk-tsk-tsk" which means I like Bjork alot and<BR>
was trying to humiliate you in front of the entire planet... I'm just<BR>
kidding. I'm taking pills, I can say anything I want for the next few<BR>
days... ;-)</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Dude, what i said was in response to what Patrice said about Britney Spears... not Bjork !!!!!!!!!<BR>
I got the Carey Grant reference ;)   I sent this back to the Z-list to make sure no one else though i was ragging on Bjork, who i love.....<BR>
<BR>
BTW, whats up with JAZZIZ ?  I dont read jazz publications often, but i picked up a recent issue with Diana Krall on the cover.  She appears to me to be the Britney Spears of jazz.... although i'll give her the benefit of the doubt that she CAN actually sing....<BR>
<BR>
-Jody</FONT></HTML>

--part1_14f.89fe2f1.2996dd69_boundary--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tom Gatzen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn DVD, Buckethead, Bjork
Date: 09 Feb 2002 12:45:20 -0800 (PST)

DVD???? where was this announced?



T

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Miles ("On the corner")
Date: 09 Feb 2002 16:01:30 -0500

Somehow, over the years, On The Corner has garnered this reputation as being a
recording critics dissed.
I can't find the Down Beat review of the day, but I recall Ralph J. Gleason
loving it in Rolling Stone.
In retrospect it has found its way onto the perennial top 10 list of myself and
Howard Mandel, for two, and I believe I've also seen it recalled fondly by Bill
Milkowski, Jim Macnie and several others.

There *was* enormous confusion over the personnel. Miles' approach to the
sessions had a lot to do with that.
Dave Liebman tells a hilarious story of being at his doctor, getting a call
relayed through his mother to show up at the studio for his first recording date
with Miles.
Everyone was plugged into the board, and Liebman wasn't offered any headphones.
Miles just told him to play... no key, nothing.
What Liebman played is on the final record.

James Hale

duncan youngerman wrote:

> Remco Takken a Θcrit :
>
>
> > This seems to be the one that you either love or hate.
>
> 2 non-musical reasons why many people, especially critics, were either pissed
> at this one or did'nt pay attention:


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Miles ("On the corner")
Date: 09 Feb 2002 22:20:49 +0100



James Hale a =E9crit :

>
> Everyone was plugged into the board, and Liebman wasn't offered any headph=
ones=2E
> Miles just told him to play=2E=2E=2E no key, nothing=2E
> What Liebman played is on the final record=2E

That's almost Cage! No wonder it sounds so fresh=2E
(And so much more fresh and exciting, Imho, than the much later Byrne/Eno/ L=
aswell
soundalikes which bore me to tears=2E)
DY=2E

>
>
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: take the coltrane
Date: 09 Feb 2002 16:38:29 -0500

INTERSTELLAR SPACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm orgasmic, I think I need to go listen to it now :)

Zach

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of Kurt Gottschalk
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 1:24 PM



while everyone certainly does have a right to their opinions, not
getting
coltrane? i don't get it. COLtrane? what are guys talking about? JOHN
colTRANE! criminey. it's like not getting bach. or led zeppelin. or, or
alfred hitchcock or something.

seriously, reevalute. fuh...

BALLADS/JOHNNY HARTMAN/A LOVE SUPREME/LIVE IN JAPAN (esp "Crescent")/all
of
the VILLAGE VANGUARD stuff (but especially LIVE AT THE VILLAGE VANGUARD
AGAIN)/KULU SE MAMA/EXPRESSION/INTERSTELLAR SPACE/DUKE ELLINGTON?

it's, it's like i don't even know you anymore (*sniff*)

kurt

_________________________________________________________________
Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com


-




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 09 Feb 2002 16:43:35 -0500

Bitches Brew is sex music.  KoB: most definitely not.  I've heard KoB
played at restaurants, doctors' offices, and on THE WEATHER
CHANNEL!!!!!!!!!! Though, I will confess that I have never heard it in
an elevator.  That's probably because I prefer taking the steps while
thinking about Bitches Brew :)

Zach

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]] On Behalf Of [e-mail]
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 3:03 PM

In a message dated 2/8/02 9:31:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Kind of Blue was the second Miles album that I bought.  Birth of the
 Cool was the first ( I liked it b/c I was into Gerry Mulligan at the
 time).  I turned Kind of Blue and on expected to be blown away having
 heard the hype.  What did I hear? Elevator music!  I relegated it to
the
 inoffensive list of CDs I listen to when I sleep. >>

_KoB_ was also one of my early Miles albums too, but I got it *after*
buying
most of the 70's stuff.  Got to admit that this is the first time I've
seen
the album under the "elevator music" moniker.  Sex music maybe, but
elevator
music?  Hmmm...explains that warm feeling riding up to the 39th floor...

--
np: Alamaailman Vasarat- Vasaraasia

=dg=

-




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Dig this:
Date: 09 Feb 2002 16:54:36 -0500

Reggie Workman's ZIETZ Bass Viol - c. 1790

http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1510462935

!!!,
RL
----------
[  All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k  ]

Sessionographies :
CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.

Discographies :
COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN.

Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag;
ETC.,
----------
*** THINGS 4 SALE ***  [Updated: 01.12.01]
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/ChipsInCashing.html




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Sex Music (JZ?)
Date: 09 Feb 2002 17:10:02 EST


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To my ears, any music that heightens, compliments, accentuates or matches the
mood is sex music.  Depending on the circumstances, "Kind of Blue" could be
just as sexy, if not sexier, than "Bitches Brew."  Without giving away too
much here, I have listened to both albums under certain conditions and have
found each to be excellent soundtracks for a candle-lit evening at home.

Similarly, I have found that Louis Armstrong's "Plays W.C. Handy," The Red
Hot Chili Peppers' "Blood Sugar Sex Magic," Otis Redding's "Anthology," Nine
Inch Nails' "Pretty Hate Machine," Rimsky-Korsakov's "Scheherazade," Zorn's
"Bar Kokhba," Monk's "Complete Columbia Solo Recordings," Mingus's "Ah-Um,"
Tom Waits's "Small Change," and Elvis Costello's "Get Happy!!" work just
fine.

Given the depth and breadth of musical knowledge of this group, I bet we
could come up with quite a long list of make-sweet-love-down-by-the-fire
recommendations.

Anyone?

Tom

In a message dated 2/9/02 4:44:50 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> Bitches Brew is sex music.  KoB: most definitely not.  I've heard KoB
> played at restaurants, doctors' offices, and on THE WEATHER
> CHANNEL!!!!!!!!!! Though, I will confess that I have never heard it in
> an elevator.  That's probably because I prefer taking the steps while
> thinking about Bitches Brew :)
>
> Zach
>


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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>To my ears, any music that heightens, compliments, accentuates or matches the mood is sex music.  Depending on the circumstances, "Kind of Blue" could be just as sexy, if not sexier, than "Bitches Brew."  Without giving away too much here, I have listened to both albums under certain conditions and have found each to be excellent soundtracks for a candle-lit evening at home.  <BR>
<BR>
Similarly, I have found that Louis Armstrong's "Plays W.C. Handy," The Red Hot Chili Peppers' "Blood Sugar Sex Magic," Otis Redding's "Anthology," Nine Inch Nails' "Pretty Hate Machine," Rimsky-Korsakov's "Scheherazade," Zorn's "Bar Kokhba," Monk's "Complete Columbia Solo Recordings," Mingus's "Ah-Um," Tom Waits's "Small Change," and Elvis Costello's "Get Happy!!" work just fine.  <BR>
<BR>
Given the depth and breadth of musical knowledge of this group, I bet we could come up with quite a long list of make-sweet-love-down-by-the-fire recommendations.<BR>
<BR>
Anyone?<BR>
<BR>
Tom<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 2/9/02 4:44:50 PM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Bitches Brew is sex music.  KoB: most definitely not.  I've heard KoB<BR>
played at restaurants, doctors' offices, and on THE WEATHER<BR>
CHANNEL!!!!!!!!!! Though, I will confess that I have never heard it in<BR>
an elevator.  That's probably because I prefer taking the steps while<BR>
thinking about Bitches Brew :) <BR>
<BR>
Zach<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_c6.649adca.2996f83a_boundary--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Sex Music (JZ?)
Date: 09 Feb 2002 17:23:01 EST


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I should probably stress that I didn't listen to all of the albums listed
below in one night.  :)

Tom

In a message dated 2/9/02 5:11:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> To my ears, any music that heightens, compliments, accentuates or matches
> the mood is sex music.  Depending on the circumstances, "Kind of Blue"
> could be just as sexy, if not sexier, than "Bitches Brew."  Without giving
> away too much here, I have listened to both albums under certain conditions
> and have found each to be excellent soundtracks for a candle-lit evening at
> home.
>
> Similarly, I have found that Louis Armstrong's "Plays W.C. Handy," The Red
> Hot Chili Peppers' "Blood Sugar Sex Magic," Otis Redding's "Anthology,"
> Nine Inch Nails' "Pretty Hate Machine," Rimsky-Korsakov's "Scheherazade,"
> Zorn's "Bar Kokhba," Monk's "Complete Columbia Solo Recordings," Mingus's
> "Ah-Um," Tom Waits's "Small Change," and Elvis Costello's "Get Happy!!"
> work just fine.
>
> Given the depth and breadth of musical knowledge of this group, I bet we
> could come up with quite a long list of make-sweet-love-down-by-the-fire
> recommendations.
>
> Anyone?
>
> Tom
>


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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>I should probably stress that I didn't listen to all of the albums listed below in one night.  :)<BR>
<BR>
Tom<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 2/9/02 5:11:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">To my ears, any music that heightens, compliments, accentuates or matches the mood is sex music.  Depending on the circumstances, "Kind of Blue" could be just as sexy, if not sexier, than "Bitches Brew."  Without giving away too much here, I have listened to both albums under certain conditions and have found each to be excellent soundtracks for a candle-lit evening at home.  <BR>
<BR>
Similarly, I have found that Louis Armstrong's "Plays W.C. Handy," The Red Hot Chili Peppers' "Blood Sugar Sex Magic," Otis Redding's "Anthology," Nine Inch Nails' "Pretty Hate Machine," Rimsky-Korsakov's "Scheherazade," Zorn's "Bar Kokhba," Monk's "Complete Columbia Solo Recordings," Mingus's "Ah-Um," Tom Waits's "Small Change," and Elvis Costello's "Get Happy!!" work just fine.  <BR>
<BR>
Given the depth and breadth of musical knowledge of this group, I bet we could come up with quite a long list of make-sweet-love-down-by-the-fire recommendations.<BR>
<BR>
Anyone?<BR>
<BR>
Tom<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_b6.64940d6.2996fb45_boundary--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sex Music (JZ?)
Date: 09 Feb 2002 17:30:41 -0500

on 02.02.09 5:10 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

> could come up with quite a long list of make-sweet-love-down-by-the-fire
> recommendations.
>
> Anyone?

Miles' Amandla.

honest,
RL
----------
[  All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k  ]

Sessionographies :
CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.

Discographies :
COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN.

Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag;
ETC.,
----------
*** THINGS 4 SALE ***  [Updated: 01.12.01]
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/ChipsInCashing.html





-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: crymad <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 09 Feb 2002 14:32:55 -0800



Zachary Steiner wrote:
>
> Bitches Brew is sex music.  KoB: most definitely not.  I've heard KoB
> played at restaurants, doctors' offices, and on THE WEATHER
> CHANNEL!!!!!!!!!!

A local Republican in the state House of Rep used Kind of Blue as
background music for a "Campaign Get Together" cable access TV show that
was filmed in her lovely home.  She and another politician friend sat at
her dining table and "got together" while the Miles CD played in some
other room.

--crymad

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Given <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: take the coltrane
Date: 09 Feb 2002 14:49:58 -0800

> From: "Kurt Gottschalk"
> Subject: take the coltrane
>
> while everyone certainly does have a right to their > opinions, not getting coltrane? i don't get it.
> COLtrane? what are guys talking about? JOHN
> colTRANE! criminey. it's like not getting bach. or
> led zeppelin. or, or

I find this comparison quite funny, because i love Coltrane, but Bach (and almost all pre-20th C. classical music) bores the hell out of me, and hearing Led Zeppelin makes me run from the room screaming.

As for someone else I have no interest in, who seems to get praised here on a regular basis -- Bobby Previte!  Tried lots of times, but...I can't remember the last time I even contemplated pulling one of his CDs of the shelf again.  Bought a few of them, always thought that he had assembled a great band, and then...blah.

Dan


Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping!
http://www.shopping.altavista.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sex Music (JZ?)
Date: 09 Feb 2002 23:47:27 +0100

>
> Samerivertwice@aol=2Ecom a =E9crit :
>
>>
>> Given the depth and breadth of musical knowledge of this group, I
>> bet we could come up with quite a long list of
>> make-sweet-love-down-by-the-fire recommendations=2E
>>
>> Anyone?
>
>
> Steve Reich's "Music for 18 musicians=2E
> Miles Davis' "In a silent way"=2E
> Miles Davis  "On the corner"
> Aretha Franklin's greatest hits
> Elliott Sharp's "Autaria"
> Fran=E7ois Couperin "Le=E7ons de Tenebres"(by William Christie & Les Arts
> Florissants)
> Morton Feldman "Piano and string quartet"
>
> DY=2E
>
>>
>>
>>
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Sex music recoms
Date: 09 Feb 2002 23:56:14 +0100


Steve Reich "Music for 18 musicians"
Miles Davis "In a silent way"
Miles Davis "On the corner"
Aretha Franklin's greatest hits
Marvin Gaye's greatest hits
Elliott Sharp's "Autar"
Francois Couperin "Le=E7ons de T=E9n=E8bres"(William Christie/Les Arts
Florissants)
Morton Feldman "Piano and string quartet"

Enjoy,

DY=2E


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ari <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sex music recoms
Date: 10 Feb 2002 00:35:27 +0100

One good advise: never try Pierre Henry's "Variations pour une Porte et un
Soupir". Roar with laughter guaranteed, but what a hell of a "turn-off".

Ari


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: retakethecoltrane
Date: 09 Feb 2002 23:39:40 +0000

me:
> > while everyone certainly does have a right to their > opinions, not
>getting coltrane? i don't get it.
> > COLtrane? what are guys talking about? JOHN
> > colTRANE! criminey. it's like not getting bach. or
> > led zeppelin. or, or
dan:
>I find this comparison quite funny, because i love Coltrane, but Bach (and
>almost all pre-20th C. classical music) bores the hell out of me, and
>hearing Led Zeppelin makes me run from the room screaming.
me:
ok, i sorta spilled that without realizing i'd have to explain myself, but
i've had this idear (probably alluded to here in the past) of certain
creators who reach the pinnacle of their form, whether or not it's my
favority styling. to say that hitchcock, sinatra, holliday, fitzgerald, are
masters of their form just seems, to me, obvious. hitchcock is the easiest
example. i enjoy his flix, they're not my faves, but they're so damn
hitchcocky. they're perfectly realized, effortless. that's the idea.
coltrane and led zep, too.
i'm scared of having to defend this. perhaps i should talk about sex to
distract everyone.

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: let's talk about sex, baby
Date: 09 Feb 2002 23:49:51 +0000


best sex music, following a thread.

the necks (although not necessarily the one titled "sex")
chopin (preludes, esp in the a.m.)
prince (the new one, despite the doofy segues, "sign," "lovesexy," "black,"
"come")
coltrane ("ballads," 'crescent' from "live in japan")
kahil el'zabar ("golden sea," "alika rising")
loren mazzacane connors (though the discs are all too short)
taj mahal/toumani diabate
john lee hooker ("alone" on tomato)
mingus ("moanin")
threadgill


_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Sex music recoms
Date: 09 Feb 2002 19:31:14 -0500

Anything by Prince.  That man IS sex incarnate.

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Coltrane
Date: 09 Feb 2002 19:35:24 -0500


While talking about Coltrane, I thought about my own feelings about the
man.  While I like him, I think his sound of his later period was more
successful with only another instrument playing, be it bass or drums.  I
am growing to dislike whole quartet playing on Live in Japan and Stellar
Regions.  It could be the piano, but I'm not sure.  Am I just crazy or
does any one else concur.

Listening to Interstellar Space,
Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ryan Novak <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Luttenbachers again
Date: 09 Feb 2002 16:50:16 -0800 (PST)

>Apologies for the long post. You make good points,
>and
>some funny ones, and
>I'm not trying to pick a fight. Anyway, the
>Luttenbachers stuff isn't
>perfect, but it does raise some good questioins as to

>the current state of
>(free) jazz/improv, and just what (not all of, but a
>good portion of) it is
>really SAYING these days.

Well, I was being hard on Weasel because he's been
hard on others, but mostly because I do want to like
the guy and his music.  His attitude is a little too
contrary for me though, and it makes me wonder if he
really is seeking a personal sound as furiously as he
could be, or if he's more busy bashing others and
complaining a lot.

>>Maybe if Lovens and Gustafsson wore more stage
>>makeup,
>>Weasel wouldn't consider them as predictable.
>
>I doubt that's it. He has called Marduk (black metal
>band) predictable, or
>something to that effect, and they wear enough face
>paint to cover a small
>tool shed.

Well, I was just joking about how I guess the
Luttenbachers have gone through some theatrical phases
with costume and make-up themselves.

>right, exactly. tell anyone they're great for long
>enough and it is bound to
>make them complacent. note that he has also said many

>positive things about
>lovens, et al. in the past

Yeah, I know he must like those guys enough to even
bother to criticize their shortcomings as he sees
them, but like I said, I feel the same way about him.

>Ridiculous hyperbole, sure, but it comes with the
>territory when you're
>making music such as this. Take it with a grain of
>salt, just like those
>Tzadik obis or the grand proclamations of AUM
>Fidelity-type jazz supporters,
>AMM/Erstwhile boosters,

Well, that's true- I guess they get away with it
better because the artist themself isn't usually
writing the proclamations- but they may as well be,
you're right.  But still, Weasel yapping about blood
on the stage and world domination ceases to be very
descriptive after a while y'know?  :~)

>But, to say that Weasel is all energy and nothing
>but,
>well, the new album
>on Troubleman has some really well-written and
>intricate composing. My only

I believe the one show I saw them play contained
pieces from this album.  I liked it, but I did get
tired of it after a while.  But then I tend to not
enjoy composed performances as much as good improvised
ones- I'd probably enjoy it more on record.  It seems
he's heading more into that composed area too, which
is kinda disappointing.  I'm still curious about the
improvising sax-bass-drum trio version of the
Luttenbachers (which is what I was hoping to see at
the show I attended).  I think there's at least a
couple records of that group- would you recommend any
of these?

----Ryan Novak




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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Channeling Miles
Date: 09 Feb 2002 17:41:09 -0800

>>>I think it's obvious (and all of Davis'
biographers agree) that he did not consider his work in the mid-
to
late-'50s an embarrassment.<<<

Well, the passion with which he expressed those sentiments, and
the whole demeanor of his presentation when talking about that
music, is far more convincing than any motherfucking biographer's
interpretation of Miles and his opinions.Those asshole biographers
can kiss my fucking ass.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 10 Feb 2002 03:06:46 +0100


----- Original Message -----

> what I was hearing, but oh did I like it.  I later went to explore
> earlier Miles, but it doesn't really do it for me like the electric
> years.

Am I the only one to think think of 'filles de killimajaro' as one of the
few masterpieces of the last century (comparable to, let's say 'The rake's
progress', 'Lhistorie du soldat', etc ;-)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Previte
Date: 10 Feb 2002 03:08:59 +0100


----- Original Message -----

> i just played a tune from it on my radio show this morning that was really
> nice, but that's all i've heard.  Ray Anderson, Marty Ehrlich, Wayne
Horvitz
> (piano), Bobby and I'm spacing on the bass player.  solid line-up,
atrocious
> cover art.
> sean

What label it's on?


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Ricardo=20Campillo?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sex Music (JZ?)
Date: 10 Feb 2002 03:01:38 +0100 (CET)


> Given the depth and breadth of musical knowledge of
> this group, I bet we
> could come up with quite a long list of
> make-sweet-love-down-by-the-fire
> recommendations.
>
> Anyone?
>
> Tom
>
>-----------------------------------------------------
Some variated "sex" recommendations:

-Isaac Hayes "Hot Buttered Soul"
-Ornette Coleman "Body meta"
-Coltrane "A love supreme"
-Nine inch Nails "Closer to God"(Single)
-Tom Waits "Blue Valentine"
-Tool "Undertow"
-Ravi Shankar "Sound of Sitar"
-Arvo PΣrt "De Profundis"
-Debussy "Images"
-P.J.Harvey "To Bring You My Love"

Regards for everybody.
Ricardo.



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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Sex music recoms
Date: 10 Feb 2002 02:13:49 +0000

>From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>

>
>Anything by Prince.  That man IS sex incarnate.

Sorry, I believe you've mistook him for someone else: MARVIN GAYE!

Let's Get It On...

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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: boring old miles
Date: 10 Feb 2002 03:26:47 +0100


----- Original Message -----

> what instrumentalists use words the best? (it's the writer in me.) i
> nominate threadgill and tim berne as best at naming
> records/compositions/bands.

i won't discuss names, but the use of spoken words on Spillane and Godard is
fabulous. it's extremely inspiring for my own music / 'poetry' work.
But, of course, the absolute top is Stravinsky/ Auden&Kallman 'The rake's
progress'. The way music intrferes with the stroy, and the way the music is
written with the style of the libretto is just unbelievable.
Marcin (who stopped listening  the entire 'rake' by gardiner/lso/ terfel/
von otter/ etc. every two days at least last holiday)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Miles
Date: 10 Feb 2002 03:32:31 +0100


duncan youngerman <[e-mail]> wrote

> May I suggest checking out a couple rarely mentioned albums?
> -"Live at the Plugged Nickel" (live, 1965, with Shorter, Tony Williams,
> Hancock, Carter at their burningest...real hot and inspired).

well... one of the miles releases that i listen to the least. Can't see how
one colud compare to shorter/corea/holand/dejohnette bands (and i have never
heard any later live recordings of the quitet with williams carter, and
hancock - i'm looking forward to this moment)

> -"On the Corner" (studio, 1972, with McLaughlin, Cobham, Corea,
> etc...also red hot and inspired, but while the first album is pure jazz,
> this, y'all, is nasty, eclectic psycho-fonk).

Oh yes. A great one. But the two other studio '70s releases - 'big fun' and
'get up with it' - may be even better. That one is more of an album - it
comes from ytwo sessions.

>I think he searched for radical simplicity all his life and found it in
> a different way with the James Brown-influenced electric works (68-75):
> no more chord changes, more music!

That may be true.

Marcin


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: naming -- decision in paradise
Date: 09 Feb 2002 18:55:11 -0800

I share the affection of other posters for Threadgill's titles. Seething
with innuendo.... And I dig many of Sun Ra's too.

But near the top of my list of all-time titles is Frank Lowe's "Decision in
Paradise."




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Sonny Rollins recommendations
Date: 09 Feb 2002 19:08:56 -0800

Newk: My favorite is A Night at the Village Vanguard. Runner up would be
Freedom Suite. I also dig his playing with Monk (Brilliant Corners) -- I
think Monk influenced Newk's focus on theme and variation, all those
practice sessions they had in the early '50s when Monk didn't have his
cabaret card....

As for song titles -- was that actually a thread?! -- I dig Frank Lowe's
"Decision in Paradise."

Martin

np. J.A. Granelli and Mr. Lucky



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "ROBERTO J. LOPEZ" <[e-mail]>
Subject: about Ethiopiques
Date: 10 Feb 2002 00:30:36 -0300

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C1B1CA.288B1C00
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi:
I have Volume 3.It's very good record,too.
Roberto

 =20



------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C1B1CA.288B1C00
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    charset="iso-8859-1"
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hi:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I have Volume 3.It's very good =
record,too.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Roberto</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>  </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C1B1CA.288B1C00--


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sibree/Wilkes <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: take the coltrane
Date: 10 Feb 2002 11:57:57 +0800

Hi,

Years ago Dudu Pukwana said to me that everyday one should "listen"
to Coltrane, it was a necessity of life. I agreed with him! I have
listened nearly every day
since I saw Coltrane as a 17 year old schoolboy in England in 1961.

regards,
Billy



>
>aawwww, now Kurty... easy kiddo. It's not that I don't "get" it, it's just
>that he has yet to light the proverbial fire under my ass. I don't know
>why... I don't know when... Idunno. I *am* perhaps too focussed down any
>more.
>
>I just don't know,
>RL

--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Sibree/Wilkes <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: take the coltrane
Date: 10 Feb 2002 11:58:34 +0800

Hi,

I will put my cards on the table. I am nearly 58, my tastes are wide
and varied. I never understood the fuss about Led Zeppelin - I
thought that they were as overblown,overweight and doughy as their
name. Cream yes, Hendrix yes. Zep - good guitarist but they were
shite!

As for Zorn now? Too old and too fat?

regards,
Billy

>while everyone certainly does have a right to their opinions, not
>getting coltrane? i don't get it. COLtrane? what are guys talking
>about? JOHN colTRANE! criminey. it's like not getting bach. or led
>zeppelin. or, or alfred hitchcock or something.
>
>seriously, reevalute. fuh...
>
>BALLADS/JOHNNY HARTMAN/A LOVE SUPREME/LIVE IN JAPAN (esp
>"Crescent")/all of the VILLAGE VANGUARD stuff (but especially LIVE
>AT THE VILLAGE VANGUARD AGAIN)/KULU SE MAMA/EXPRESSION/INTERSTELLAR
>SPACE/DUKE ELLINGTON?
>
>it's, it's like i don't even know you anymore (*sniff*)
>
>kurt
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Join the world=92s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
>http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>-


--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Sex music
Date: 09 Feb 2002 23:39:13 EST

Don't forget Nathaniel Merriweather presents Lovage - Music to make love to
your old lady by avec Mike Patton et Jennifer Charles.  Its a fairly new cd,
but a must have for the occasion.

Seth

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Miles
Date: 09 Feb 2002 21:38:29 -0800

skip heller

> This seems to be the one that you either love or hate. It's groovy, sure,
> but IMHO nothing really happens there, even for 'psycho fonk'. If you want
> to go psycho, it would be better to start with Miles at Fillmore...
>
> Regards, Remco Takken
>
Nobody's mentioning my fav Miles of that period -- JACK JOHNSON, which is a
great straight-ahead playing record record.  Not straight-ahead jazz, mind
you.  Just straight-ahead no frills playing.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: take the coltrane
Date: 09 Feb 2002 21:44:04 -0800


> while everyone certainly does have a right to their opinions, not getting
> coltrane? i don't get it. COLtrane? what are guys talking about? JOHN
> colTRANE! criminey. it's like not getting bach. or led zeppelin. or, or
> alfred hitchcock or something.

> it's, it's like i don't even know you anymore (*sniff*)
>
> kurt

Uh, I don't like Led Zep, Kurt.  But I love Hitchock and Bach.

As for Trane, I am one of the weird people who likes all the Trane that
signals a change of phases for him -- the stuff w/Monk, the first Atlantics
with McCoy, Crescent/Love Supreme -- more than the stuff that he got into
when he was fully into each phase.  Something I like about his trepidation
coupled with his need for discovery waging war with each other.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Coltrane/Dolphy
Date: 09 Feb 2002 21:45:30 -0800

skip heller

> hm. it's interesting to find out that coltrane hadn't lit the fires under
> the asses of nearly as many as i had thought.  nice to know that ears can be
> so different.
> i "got" coltrane the first time i heard it.  coltrane is the reason i am a
> musician today.  and like so many others, "A Love Supreme"  changed my life.
> -Samuel

The first thing I ever heard of Trane was Miles' "If I Were A Bell", and the
level of intensity and energy grabbed me in such a punk rock way.  That one
STILL does.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers/ BRITNEY/
Date: 09 Feb 2002 21:50:36 -0800

> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--MS_Mac_OE_3096136236_63324_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

skip heller

BTW, whats up with JAZZIZ ?  I dont read jazz publications often, but i
picked up a recent issue with Diana Krall on the cover.  She appears to me
to be the Britney Spears of jazz.... although i'll give her the benefit of
the doubt that she CAN actually sing....

-Jody

One night in 1997, Joey Baron and I were hanging out together in the lobby
of the hotel where all of us playing the festival were staying, and there
was a jam session going on as we were speaking.  This beautiful, Wynton
Kelly kind of piano playing came out of nowhere, and we both looked up at
the stand to see who it was, and it was -- yep -- Diana Krall, and Joey said
something to the effect of "If people heard her do that on one of her
records, she might not be as popular, but she'd get a whole other kind of
respect."  And he's probably right, just as we will probably never find out.

skip h

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Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers/ BRITNEY/ JAZZ=
IZ</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
skip heller<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2">BTW, whats up with JAZZIZ ?  I dont read ja=
zz publications often, but i picked up a recent issue with Diana Krall on th=
e cover.  She appears to me to be the Britney Spears of jazz.... althou=
gh i'll give her the benefit of the doubt that she CAN actually sing....<BR>
<BR>
-Jody</FONT> <BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
One night in 1997, Joey Baron and I were hanging out together in the lobby =
of the hotel where all of us playing the festival were staying, and there wa=
s a jam session going on as we were speaking.  This beautiful, Wynton K=
elly kind of piano playing came out of nowhere, and we both looked up at the=
 stand to see who it was, and it was -- yep -- Diana Krall, and Joey said so=
mething to the effect of "If people heard her do that on one of her rec=
ords, she might not be as popular, but she'd get a whole other kind of respe=
ct."  And he's probably right, just as we will probably never find=
 out.<BR>
<BR>
skip h
</BODY>
</HTML>


--MS_Mac_OE_3096136236_63324_MIME_Part--


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sex Music (JZ?)
Date: 09 Feb 2002 21:53:47 -0800

> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--MS_Mac_OE_3096136428_74858_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

skip heller

Given the depth and breadth of musical knowledge of this group, I bet we
could come up with quite a long list of make-sweet-love-down-by-the-fire
recommendations.

Anyone?

John Coltrane/Johnny Hartman
just about any Caetano Veloso album
Curtis Mayfield ballads
Issac Hayes -- HOT BUTTERED SOUL
Les Baxter -- SACRED IDOL

skip h

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Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: Sex Music (JZ?)</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
skip heller<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2">Given the depth and breadth of musical knowledge=
 of this group, I bet we could come up with quite a long list of make-sweet-=
love-down-by-the-fire recommendations.<BR>
<BR>
Anyone?<BR>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><BR>
</FONT>John Coltrane/Johnny Hartman<BR>
just about any Caetano Veloso album<BR>
Curtis Mayfield ballads<BR>
Issac Hayes -- HOT BUTTERED SOUL<BR>
Les Baxter -- SACRED IDOL<BR>
<BR>
skip h
</BODY>
</HTML>


--MS_Mac_OE_3096136428_74858_MIME_Part--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ryan Novak <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sex Music
Date: 09 Feb 2002 22:19:00 -0800 (PST)

In another thread I was going to say how Machine Gun
is a record that has stayed fresh over time (fresh
enough for me to still hear how powerful it is though
I discovered it many years after the fact), and now
perhaps it could also make for some very kinky sex
music as well.

Also I thought I'd add that I remember Courtney Love
saying that she'd had a particularly enjoyable
"session" with Cobain while listening to Trout Mask
Replica I guess.  Okay, that's the last time I chime
in on sex music- I'm from the mid-west and this talk
makes me uncomfortable.


---Ryan Novak

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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Take the Coltrane/Erotic music
Date: 10 Feb 2002 00:19:32 -0600

>From: Dan Given <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Re: take the coltrane
>
>> From: "Kurt Gottschalk"
>> Subject: take the coltrane
>>
>> while everyone certainly does have a right to their > opinions, not
>>getting coltrane? i don't get it.
>> COLtrane? what are guys talking about? JOHN
>> colTRANE! criminey. it's like not getting bach. or
>> led zeppelin. or, or
>
>I find this comparison quite funny, because i love Coltrane, but Bach (and
>almost all pre-20th C. classical music) bores the hell out of me, and
>hearing Led Zeppelin makes me run from the room screaming.

Zeppelin I love, when I'm in the right mood, but Bach bores me, too.  It's
all too regular and orderly.  Sometimes I think he and Mozart were
anticipating bookstore chains and the need for music to browse by... I am
sure this is some personal failing, but give me those messy Russian
composers, anyday. Or good old Beethoven or Brahms. Actually, I liked Bach
and Mozart OK when I was a kid, maybe I just got sick of them, since
classical radio seems to lean real heavily on them in the Top 40.

Erotic music:  Harold Melvin & the Bluenotes, Marvin Gaye, Luther Vandross,
Prince in his heyday, Donny Hathaway, Serge Gainsbourg (when he's not
trying too hard to be sexy -- "Anthracite" is much sexier than "Je t'aime
(moi non plus)). Astor Piazzola.  Caetano Veloso.  Nino Rota.  Definitely
Nino Rota.


Parry



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Nori Valdez" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: sex music recoms
Date: 09 Feb 2002 22:30:11 -0800




> >Anything by Prince.  That man IS sex incarnate.
>
>Sorry, I believe you've mistook him for someone else: MARVIN GAYE!
>
>Let's Get It On...

--> amen to that, brotha...

did everyone forget about barry white??? yeah, baby, yeah!

albums also an integral part of any horny grooves soundtrack: dexter gordon
"ballads", philip glass' "metamorphoses", radiohead's "ok computer", kenny
dorham's "una mas". tasty.

cheers,
nori


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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: let's talk about sex, baby
Date: 10 Feb 2002 02:16:14 EST

In a message dated 2/9/02 6:50:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< loren mazzacane connors (though the discs are all too short) >>

Which screams the need of a 5-CD changer...at the minimum, wouldn't you say?
;-)

OMG, what have I started?

--
=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Sex music recoms
Date: 10 Feb 2002 02:16:11 EST

In a message dated 2/9/02 6:35:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< One good advise: never try Pierre Henry's "Variations pour une Porte et un
 Soupir". Roar with laughter guaranteed, but what a hell of a "turn-off". >>

The _Merzbox_ falls into this category too...at least, *I'd* be scared of the
woman that threw this on before she slipped out of that teddy.

--
=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 10 Feb 2002 02:16:15 EST

In a message dated 2/9/02 4:44:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Bitches Brew is sex music.  KoB: most definitely not.  I've heard KoB
 played at restaurants, doctors' offices, and on THE WEATHER
 CHANNEL!!!!!!!!!! Though, I will confess that I have never heard it in
 an elevator.  That's probably because I prefer taking the steps while
 thinking about Bitches Brew :) >>

Well yeah...but how many _BB_-type women do you come across, outside the ones
in films?

Punners, smile away.

--
=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "josephneff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: boring old miles
Date: 10 Feb 2002 03:05:12 -0500



-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Kurt Gottschalk
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 3:48 PM

what records have best stood the test of time?


Hello,
     ....well, after a few days to mull it over, here's a few.

the 1st four Velvet Underground albums
Capt. Beefheart- "Trout Mask Replica"
Pere Ubu- "The Modern Dance"
Albert Ayler- "Spiritual Unity" and "Bells"
John Coltrane- "Interstellar Space"
The Hampton Grease Band- "Music To Eat"
Alexander "Skip" Spence- "Oar"
John Fahey- "Requia"
Brian Eno- "Taking Tiger Mountain By Strategy"
"The Anthology of American Folk Music"
Joseph Spence- Folkways Recordings 1958
Hound Dog Taylor and the Houserockers- "Genuine Houserockin' Music"
Minutemen- "Double Nickels' and ""Ballot Results"
Minor Threat- 1st two seven inches
Mission of Burma- Ryko collection

I remain...

Joseph

NP: Blurt- s/t LP
NR: John Barth- "the Floating Opera"
-

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Gabriel Drummer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles???????
Date: 10 Feb 2002 00:10:39 -0800 (PST)


> <<     I must confess too: I could never get into
> Sun Ra.
>  And I'm not making any efforts to dig him because
> "I
>  should". >>
>
> Wow.  None?  I must admit a preference to his
> "composed/big-band" stuff over
> the free-blowing albums.   I'm not dissing you in
> the least, but I'd think
> that anyone into any kind jazz could find a few Ra
> albums to enjoy out of his
> vast oeuvre.  Have you tried the early Delmark-label
> albums?  Classics, those.

         Thanks for the tip. I think the main reason I
don't dig Sun Ra's music is because he's done way too
many albums and the ones I've heard are maybe the
"incorrect" ones (for me, that is). I'll check the
stuff you recommend; let's see what happens. Thanks
again.
                                     Gabe

np: Bar Kokhba (Zorn content)

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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "josephneff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Coltrane
Date: 10 Feb 2002 03:29:13 -0500

Hello,
      ...music critic Richard Meltzer has openly expressed disdain for McCoy
Tyner's playing, so you're not alone there. Me, I like 'em okay, though I
can say that Tyner is easily my least highly esteemed member of the Classic
Quartet. At times he can feel a little "plugged in". At other times his
playing moves wonderfully. So, anyone want to express favor for Alice over
McCoy?

I remain...

Joseph

NP: Blurt- s/t LP
NR: John Barth- "The Floating Opera"

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Zachary Steiner
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 7:35 PM



While talking about Coltrane, I thought about my own feelings about the
man.  While I like him, I think his sound of his later period was more
successful with only another instrument playing, be it bass or drums.  I
am growing to dislike whole quartet playing on Live in Japan and Stellar
Regions.  It could be the piano, but I'm not sure.  Am I just crazy or
does any one else concur.

Listening to Interstellar Space,
Zach



-


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Gabriel Drummer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 10 Feb 2002 00:27:54 -0800 (PST)


> > I must confess too: I could never get into Sun Ra.
> And
> > I'm not making any efforts to dig him because "I
> > should".
> Sun Ra is an example of where making too many
> records will turn even the
> most receptive listener off.  But he's done so much
> great stuff that I can't
> help but think you'll find some stuff in there that
> you'll go for.  I only
> came to him via his doo-wop singles, then I kind of
> went, "Oh...".

    I see my case is maybe not lost. I'll check the
recommended Sun Ra stuff. Wish me luck. Thanks for the
tip.
                              Gabe

>And I agree with you about MILESTONES.  That record
> still excites me down to
> my toes like almost no other.

 np: guess what? Milestones... Dr. Jekill, a 12-bar
trades masterclass between Trane and Cannonball.



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Miles/"Jack Johnson"
Date: 10 Feb 2002 09:30:25 +0100



Fred Heller a =E9crit :

>
>
> Nobody's mentioning my fav Miles of that period -- JACK JOHNSON, which is =
a
> great straight-ahead playing record record=2E  Not straight-ahead jazz, mi=
nd
> you=2E  Just straight-ahead no frills playing=2E
>
> skip h
>

Re: Jack Johnson: I'm a little bothered by the production/editing, the "In a
silent way"quote(s)("It's about that time", I think) being spliced back in
there=2E A real creative let down, IMHO=2E Because of the film? (why is it n=
ever
shown, BTW?)
Also I think there's some talking by Miles about Jack Johnson in there=2E
Finally I don't somehow find the music adventurous at all compared with
"B=2EBrew", "Fillmore" or "Corner"=2E Not enough interaction/ambiguity betwe=
en
rythm section and solists=2E No exceptional soloing or rythmic section playi=
ng,
despite the hot names: could have been adequate L=2EA=2E studio musicians=2E
Only one section fascinates me: the James Brown-like ostinato guitar riff by
McLaughlin: great stuff=2E But nothing much is done with it=2E Nobody else p=
icks up
on it in any way, there's not a single tiny variation of it by Mc L=2E--imag=
ine
what Hendrix (ca=2E Band of Gypsies) would have done with it=2E=2E=2EAnd als=
o very
derivative: it's J=2EB=2E music, could have been done by him=2E Don't see en=
ough
Miles in there=2E Feels a little out of place, like a quote, unrelated to th=
e
previous texture and material=2E Why not a Led Zep riff next time?
Do you or anyone have an idea where the riff comes from? Surely not Miles
himself=2E So very likely Mc Laughlin=2E But no credit's given to him=2E Was=
 it
lifted out of some classic J=2EB=2E I never heard?

Best,
DY=2E




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: boring old miles
Date: 10 Feb 2002 00:37:13 -0800

skip heller

> Joseph Spence- Folkways Recordings 1958
How did I forget THAT? He's like the Shaggs -- t never gets old cuz it only
belongs to itself.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Miles/"Jack Johnson"
Date: 10 Feb 2002 00:39:58 -0800

skip heller

> Finally I don't somehow find the music adventurous at all compared with
> "B.Brew", "Fillmore" or "Corner".
Neither do it, but the grrove and the rhythm section power -- plus I think
the solos are great -- always pins me.  I always though BBrew and FILLMORE
would have been better single records.  A lot of the stuff on each takes too
much time to develop for me (he ducks).  I blame my punk rock attention span
for this.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: sex music
Date: 10 Feb 2002 10:22:43 +0100

I can just think of one title: Miles's 'Get up with it'. Really sensual.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: sex music
Date: 10 Feb 2002 10:16:30 +0100



Marcin Gokieli a =E9crit :

> I can just think of one title: Miles's 'Get up with it'=2E Really sensual=
=2E
>

In particular the track "Rated X"=2E=2E=2E
(IMHO a masterpiece 10-20 years ahead of its time=2E A real freak!)
DY=2E



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew" <[e-mail]>
Subject: nordine?
Date: 09 Feb 2002 15:03:28 -0500

Does anyone else find Ken Nordine to be so incredibly fucking gimmicky and
stupid?

Just wondering.

"Word jazz....more like nerd dad!"

andrew


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Stinkholin'
Date: 10 Feb 2002 04:12:49 -0500

My favorite music to put on while fucking:

My Bloody Valentine- "Loveless"
Yo la tengo- "painful"
Zorn- "the gift" and "Filmworks X"
Serge- "Comic Strip" (nothing sets the mood like
"Shabamm......pow......plop.....WHIZZZ!")
Les Baxter- "The exotic moods of....."
DJ Shadow- "Endtroducing"
Television- "Marquee Moon"
anything by Jobim

asdjkfl;djkl;



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: test of time
Date: 10 Feb 2002 10:44:34 +0100


> what records have best stood the test of time?

Igor starvinsky - 'l'histoire du soldat'. Still sounds extremely fresh,
could be written in '90s by some Bley.
Davis - Filles, in a silent way. beyond jazz, not rock yet.
the beatles - i'm not a big fan of that band, but they sound really fresh
today.
Eno - early pop albums + eno/byrne discs. But those records need a CD
mastering badly.
Zorn - torture garden, absinthe, spillane, godard. just great.
Dolphy - out to lunch. what an album.
King Crimson - discipline. They really made it with that one.


music thet DOES sounds outdated:
the big looser in this category is IMO the 'prog rock'. I listened to yes's
'fragile' reecently - i liked the beginning, the first songs was really OK,
but then when they came up with those 'brahms on synths' etc... even early
crimson seems dated. Another big looser: Davis/Gil Evans colaborations.
Great music, but from the 50s/60s. same goes for davis/trane, although to a
lesser extent.
Another big looser is free jazz. As we agreed here ;-),  all those early
ornette, or late coltrane sound as if they had something important to say
about what the world is like, but lacking ink+ paper decided to play some
music that would express their thoughts. Same goes for serial muisic, maybe
except webern - those short pieces do sound interesting today.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: sex music
Date: 10 Feb 2002 10:47:24 +0100


----- Original Message -----

> In particular the track "Rated X"...
> (IMHO a masterpiece 10-20 years ahead of its time. A real freak!)

oh yes. the version from 'in concert' is also great.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: the ultimate sex album
Date: 10 Feb 2002 11:24:45 +0100

I'd forgotten this one!

"THROB", (ca.1970), by Gary Burton!
So erotic it ought to be sold with a pack of condoms...

DY.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: nordine?
Date: 10 Feb 2002 02:37:14 -0800

skip heller

> Does anyone else find Ken Nordine to be so incredibly fucking gimmicky and
> stupid?
>
> Just wondering.
>
> "Word jazz....more like nerd dad!"
>
> andrew
>
>
> -
Gee, ya wanna insult anyone else I've recorded with?

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Zorn as Miles???????? and SEX!!
Date: 10 Feb 2002 05:44:46 -0500

>> Well yeah...but how many _BB_-type women do you come across, outside
the ones in films?

I've been with one and there are many others out there.  I think you
have been looking for the wrong type of women.  If silly college girls
can dig it, so can intelligent woman.  I just think that if you
introduce it to them slowly, they can begin to appreciate it.  It's not
an album that you can take in a big swallow, but in small tastes.  It's
like a fine single malt scotch or good wine; you have to ease into it.

By the way, I love Jack Johnson and can't wait until the box set comes
out either at the end of this year or beginning of next.  Whoohooo!!

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Jack Johnson box-set
Date: 10 Feb 2002 13:55:33 +0100

Hopefully the liner notes will tell us where/whom this great guitar riff
comes from.
DY.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Miles ("On the corner") off list
Date: 10 Feb 2002 14:52:37 +0100



Remco Takken a =E9crit :

> I can see that you like this album, but the fact that great names must hav=
e
> been on it, and the fact that Elliott Sharp likes it, mean nothing to me=
=2E
>
> About critics, now and then:
> Great efforts have been made lately, to transform Miles' electric music in=
to
> pre drum'n'bass experiments, but to me especially On The Corner retains
> quite eventless =2E No matter when (now or then) certain critics said thei=
r
> thing about the album=2E
>
> I know a (white) guitar player who was on the album, it was the only Miles
> session he attended, and he isn't even on the recent session lists of thos=
e
> who seeked out the lists of players=2E For years, behind his back, things =
were
> said like: he's on the worst Miles album ever, and nobody will ever know=
=2E
> Can't help but smile about this tragic fate=2E=2E=2E
>
> Regards, Remco
>
> 2 non-musical reasons why many people, especially critics, were either
> pissed
> at this one or did'nt pay attention:
> -The cover art, cheapo, unsophisticated, cartoony (opposite of "Bitches
> Brew"
> or "In a Silent Way")=2E
> -The absence of any credits, although the musicians were top-notch=2E
> Miles was doing his <turning-my-back-to-white-intellectuals> number, and
> this
> time he did succeed =2E=2E=2E to go unnoticed=2E=2E=2Eby whites and blacks=
 alike=2E
> Too bad because the music is one of the electric Miles peaks, Imho (I know
> Elliott Sharp also digs this album a lot, which makes sense!)
>
> Best,
> DY=2E

I can't imagine why you'd want to spare the z-listers this interesting excha=
nge
on a controversial album=2E

Just the sound alone -tabla, hand-claps, whistles, etc=2E is unique (for Mil=
es at
least) and visionary: predates techno-world attempts by Byrne-Eno, Laswell,
Zakir Hussein and others=2E None of these wannabees have the swing, the clas=
s,
the poetry, the funk that's in that album (and Mile's oeuvre in general)=2E
I don't talk about the riffs, melodies, background/foreground interplay, etc=
=2E
McLaughlin's playing is charged, Imho, more inspired than in his other Miles
contributions=2E Unless that's your friend playing (what the hell -is- his
name?)? But whoever he actually is, he does it to me like no other fusion
player I've chanced to hear=2E

It's a bit condescending of you to suppose the "big names" or E=2E Sharp hav=
e
something to do with my original appreciation of this album=2E Logically ,th=
en, I
should then love all the more all other albums on which "big names" are
actually listed or which known musicians like=2E "Jack Johnson" has many "bi=
g
names"(in fact, probably the same ones with a few exceptions) and is revered=
 by
all the biggies=2E I think it's a lame album=2E
"On the corner" could have been recorded by the Friendly Neighborhood Fire D=
ept
Charity Ball Players as far as I'm concerned, it rocks!
You, however, seem to give much credit to what "things were said behind" so =
and
so's "back" about it being the "worst Miles album ever"=2E Who the bloody he=
ll
cares?
Tell your friend some people on this list think it's a great album and that =
he
should be incredibly proud!

DY=2E


>
>
> >
> >
> > -
>
> -


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: take the coltrane
Date: 10 Feb 2002 15:03:56 +0100

> > colTRANE! criminey. it's like not getting bach. or led zeppelin. or, or
> > alfred hitchcock or something.
>
>
> Uh, I don't like Led Zep, Kurt.  But I love Hitchock and Bach.
>
I always felt Led Zeppelin had a great producer and guitar player in Jimmy
Page. But live? No.

There are some really weird jammy bootlegs from 1969, but usually they waded
in the dark through their own material on stage.

Hardly play'em, but they surely influenced a whole lot of mediocre groups
like Guns'n'Poses.

Regards, Remco Takken


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "David Beardsley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jack Johnson box-set
Date: 10 Feb 2002 09:19:43 -0500


----- Original Message -----


> Hopefully the liner notes will tell us where/whom this great guitar riff
> comes from.
> DY.

Does anybody know when this is coming out?

* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Miles/"Jack Johnson"
Date: 10 Feb 2002 10:20:53 -0500

Jack Johnson is about to be issued in its "complete" form a la In A Silent Way, so
that may unravel some of Teo's editing.
The film has long been tied up by copyright issues. Of the few people I know who
have seen it the consensus isn't too encouraging.
Brock Peters does that narration on the recording.

James Hale

duncan youngerman wrote:

>
> Re: Jack Johnson: I'm a little bothered by the production/editing, the "In a
> silent way"quote(s)("It's about that time", I think) being spliced back in
> there. A real creative let down, IMHO. Because of the film? (why is it never
> shown, BTW?)
> Also I think there's some talking by Miles about Jack Johnson in there.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jack Johnson box-set
Date: 10 Feb 2002 10:23:25 -0500

It's McLaughlin.
Sonny Sharrock can be heard adding wah-wah and feedback.
There is already a bootleg circulating of Jack Johnson out-takes that makes
it clear who's doing what.

James Hale

duncan youngerman wrote:

> Hopefully the liner notes will tell us where/whom this great guitar riff
> comes from.
> DY.
>
> -


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Miles ("On the corner") off list
Date: 10 Feb 2002 10:26:09 -0500



> Remco Takken a Θcrit :
>
> > I know a (white) guitar player who was on the album, it was the only Miles
> > session he attended, and he isn't even on the recent session lists of those
> > who seeked out the lists of players.

Is that David Creamer?
I always wondered what happened to him.
Like Dominique Gaumont, he seems to have just disappeared since his Miles dates.

James Hale


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jack Johnson box-set
Date: 10 Feb 2002 10:32:49 -0500



David Beardsley wrote:

> Does anybody know when this is coming out?
>

It is currently scheduled for fall 2002 by Sony Legacy, but these release
dates have been pushed back for the previous boxes.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: sex muzik.
Date: 10 Feb 2002 11:10:33 EST

alright.  i can't resist.

gidon kremer - homage a piazzolla.  this album, a little red wine, candles,
you're gonna get laid.

morton feldman - the viola in my life.

any arvo part

brian eno - music for airports.

miles davis - kind of blue.  see under gidon kremer.  ;)

i guess it's the clear difference between what women see as sex musik and
what men see as sex musik...  the above are just CDs that put ME in the
mood... hehe...

and WRT eno/byrne being remastered - i own 'my life in the bush of ghosts' on
CD - wasn't it digitally remastered before it was released on CD?  i don't
really care for that album - surprising to me, because i love eno AND byrne
almost equally.  i think it's interesting, but it's a rare listen in my CD
player.

love,
  k8.

n.p. - ween 'the mollusk'


-----
[ .n o t h i n g  i s  w h a t  i s  s a i d. ]

.k a t e  p e t e r s o n.
.c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r.
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>
<A HREF="http://www.icefoundation.org">http://www.icefoundation.org</A>
(roundtable)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: nordine?
Date: 11 Feb 2002 03:10:44 +1100

> Gee, ya wanna insult anyone else I've recorded with?

probably...


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Previte
Date: 11 Feb 2002 03:18:30 +1100

<< As for someone else I have no interest in, who seems to get praised here
on a
regular basis -- Bobby Previte!  Tried lots of times, but...I can't remember
the
last time I even contemplated pulling one of his CDs of the shelf again.
Bought
a few of them, always thought that he had assembled a great band, and
then...blah. >>

I usually like his stuff, not all brilliant but mostly good. My favourite is
Too Close To The Pole - great band, great compositions, great album...


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Chad Mairn" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: the ultimate sex album
Date: 10 Feb 2002 11:37:17 -0500

I don't know if Lovage has been mentioned yet.  Nonetheless, the album
is titled _Music to Make Love to Your Old Lady By_ and Mike Patton and
Jennifer Charles are the vocalists. Dan the Automator produced the
album. It has a smooth R&B feel that is seasoned with some interesting
hip-hop. It has been quite some time since I've heard Patton sing this
beautifully. Track 3 (i.e. Anger Management) in particular is worth
checking out.

 You can listen to the entire album at:

                    www.75ark.com


Chad Mairn
www.baszd-meg.com


>-----Original Message-----
>From: [e-mail]
[mailto:owner-zorn->[e-mail]] On Behalf Of duncan
youngerman
>Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 5:25 AM
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: the ultimate sex album
>
>I'd forgotten this one!
>
>"THROB", (ca.1970), by Gary Burton!
>So erotic it ought to be sold with a pack of condoms...
>
>DY.


-



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles????????
Date: 10 Feb 2002 09:20:49 -0800

>>>Bitches Brew is sex music.  KoB: most definitely not.<<<

They both definitely are. I much prefer the albums that followed
Bitches Brew. Dark Magus and Ahgarta are my favorite recordings
for lovemaking. On the Corner, too.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "dekater" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sex Music (JZ?)
Date: 10 Feb 2002 12:03:56 +0100

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0040_01C1B22B.03F4D780
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: [e-mail]=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 11:10 PM
  Subject: Sex Music (JZ?)


  Given the depth and breadth of musical knowledge of this group, I bet =
we could come up with quite a long list of =
make-sweet-love-down-by-the-fire recommendations.

  Anyone?


  I'd recommend Rodrigo's "Concierto de Aranjuez" and Ravels "Bolero".
  Pretty Spanish, uh?
  Jan Luyben


------=_NextPart_000_0040_01C1B22B.03F4D780
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#b8b8b8>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
  title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
  title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Saturday, February 09, =
2002 11:10=20
  PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Sex Music (JZ?)</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>Given the depth and =
breadth of=20
  musical knowledge of this group, I bet we could come up with quite a =
long list=20
  of make-sweet-love-down-by-the-fire=20
  recommendations.<BR><BR>Anyone?<BR></FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
size=3D2></FONT></FONT> </DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>I'd recommend =
Rodrigo's=20
  "Concierto de Aranjuez" and Ravels "Bolero".</FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>Pretty Spanish,=20
  uh?</FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>Jan=20
Luyben<BR></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0040_01C1B22B.03F4D780--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: sex muzik.
Date: 10 Feb 2002 09:29:45 -0800

Some of Tricky's earlier stuff is fun to get stoned and make love
to.

When the wife is in a certain mood, the King Ubu Orchestru makes
interesting things happen.

Even Derek Bailey solo recordings can get inside certain places
erotically.

But, Leonard Cohen, if you make a copy of a collection of certain
songs with certain lyrics, is perhaps the best of all.

This is one of our faves:

Light As The Breeze
  -- Leonard Cohen

She stands before you naked
you can see it, you can taste it,
and she comes to you light as the breeze.
Now you can drink it or you can nurse it,
it don't matter how you worship
as long as you're
down on your knees.
So I knelt there at the delta,
at the alpha and the omega,
at the cradle of the river and the seas.
And like a blessing come from heaven
for something like a second
I was healed and my heart
was at ease.

O baby I waited
so long for your kiss
for something to happen,
oh something like this.

And you're weak and you're harmless
and you're sleeping in your harness
and the wind going wild
in the trees,
and it ain't exactly prison
but you'll never be forgiven
for whatever you've done
with the keys.

O baby I waited ...

It's dark now and it's snowing
O my love I must be going,
The river has started to freeze.
And I'm sick of pretending
I'm broken from bending
I've lived too long on my knees.

Then she dances so graceful
and your heart's hard and hateful
and she's naked
but that's just a tease.
And you turn in disgust
from your hatred and from your love
and comes to you
light as the breeze.

O baby I waited ...

There's blood on every bracelet
you can see it, you can taste it,
and it's Please baby
please baby please.
And she says, Drink deeply, pilgrim
but don't forget there's still a woman
beneath this
resplendent chemise.

So I knelt there at the delta,
at the alpha and the omega,
I knelt there like one who believes.
And the blessings come from heaven
and for something like a second
I'm cured and my heart
is at ease





-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Samuel Quentin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Coltrane
Date: 10 Feb 2002 11:46:26 -0600




i originally liked Tyner much more than Alice Coltrane.  but that has since
reversed.  tyner always had this rhythmic punch that was so dramatic.  i
always thought that alice was almost shy sounding.  eventually i realized
that her solos seem to have a really interesting flow to them.  and she was
the first free pianist i had ever heard not to have the strong mark of cecil
taylor influence.  (this was back when i was first getting into free jazz)
  tyner is also my "least highly esteemed" member of the classic quartet,
but at the same time... for that quartet's unique sound, i think there was
no other pianist more right for the job.  mainly because of tyner rhythmic
and dramatic comping.  it would combine with the rough strength of garrison
and loud polyrhythmic drive of jones, y'know?
  he almost made himself the drone like in ragas, only a drone that packs a
punch.  in many of the pieces (moreso after 63-64) he would become almost as
a selfless ornamentation.  and this i can respect.
  but i do basically enjoy a lot of alice coltrane stuff more, as far as
singling out the pianists goes.
  -samuel
Hello,
       ...music critic Richard Meltzer has openly expressed disdain for
McCoy
Tyner's playing, so you're not alone there. Me, I like 'em okay, though I
can say that Tyner is easily my least highly esteemed member of the Classic
Quartet. At times he can feel a little "plugged in". At other times his
playing moves wonderfully. So, anyone want to express favor for Alice over
McCoy?

I remain...

Joseph

NP: Blurt- s/t LP
NR: John Barth- "The Floating Opera"

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Zachary Steiner
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 7:35 PM



While talking about Coltrane, I thought about my own feelings about the
man.  While I like him, I think his sound of his later period was more
successful with only another instrument playing, be it bass or drums.  I
am growing to dislike whole quartet playing on Live in Japan and Stellar
Regions.  It could be the piano, but I'm not sure.  Am I just crazy or
does any one else concur.

Listening to Interstellar Space,
Zach



-


-





"Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?"
                -William Butler Yeats


Q:  Who is it who is walking towards me?
A:  All things return into One; where does this last return?

Q:  Who is it who is walking towards me?
A:  Even when one affirms that there is something here, one omits the
        whole.





_________________________________________________________________
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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Samuel Quentin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: take the coltrane
Date: 10 Feb 2002 11:50:48 -0600

indeed zeppelin's greatest asset was Page.
  imho, Jimmy Page's best work (that i've encountered so far) is with Roy
Harper.  i'm not really usually into singer/songwriter types, but Roy Harper
blows my mind.
  you say they inspired some mediocre stuff.  they inspired some stuff that
i think is great: Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, and Iron Maiden.
   -samuel


I always felt Led Zeppelin had a great producer and guitar player in Jimmy
Page. But live? No.

There are some really weird jammy bootlegs from 1969, but usually they waded
in the dark through their own material on stage.


-





"Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?"
                -William Butler Yeats


Q:  Who is it who is walking towards me?
A:  All things return into One; where does this last return?

Q:  Who is it who is walking towards me?
A:  Even when one affirms that there is something here, one omits the
        whole.





_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers/ BRITNEY/ JAZZIZ
Date: 10 Feb 2002 11:54:36 -0600

Fred Heller([e-mail])@Sat, Feb 09, 2002 at 09:50:36PM -0800:
> something to the effect of "If people heard her do that on one of her
> records, she might not be as popular, but she'd get a whole other kind of
> respect."  And he's probably right, just as we will probably never find out.

This seems to be a recurring theme in a LOT of entertainers and performers of
borderline-popular music.

m


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: sex music... well, sorta
Date: 10 Feb 2002 11:57:09 -0600

It's not necessarily 'sex music', per se, but my wife and I had our first dance
in our wedding to Bill Frisell's rendition of Have a Little Faith in Me.

m


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Coltrane/Dolphy
Date: 10 Feb 2002 18:58:06 +0000

>From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
>
I'm a drummer, so why am I not slain by Elvin, but I am most
>definitely not slain by Elvin...

Wow! L

_________________________________________________________________
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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: nordine?
Date: 10 Feb 2002 13:54:39 -0500

> Gee, ya wanna insult anyone else I've recorded with?
>

Hee hee.......I knew that Skip would start throwing his cred around as soon
as Nordine came up. I'm not going to spare anyone just because someone
worked with them.....I think Nordine's whole schtick is pure kitsch, and I
hate kitsch (now schmaltz, I can deal with.....).

Or rather.....I hate Nordine within the current cultural context, i.e., it's
"cool" to like "funny" and "kitschy" stuff like "Colors."

andrew


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: NZ: Carter Scholz's RADIANCE
Date: 10 Feb 2002 11:07:44 -0800

From the Gaddis-list:


"Members of this list might be interested in the new(first?) novel
by Carter Scholz, RADIANCE, just published by Picador USA. It's
very much in the vein of Gaddis/DeLillo/Pynchon/McElroy/Powers.
The dialogue is especially Gaddisian, even to using the European
dash instead of quotes, and the science/technology content (mostly
nuclear weaponry R&D) recalls the others. A wide range of
references too, from da Vinci's notebooks to the Sumerian myth of
Ishtar's descent to the netherworld to the Butthole Surfers. (Now
that's what I call variety.) I've read only 50 pages so far, but
I'm very impressed and I'm guessing many of you will like it too.
(And like Gaddis's novels, there's no photo of the author.)"




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Coltrane/Dolphy
Date: 10 Feb 2002 19:09:36 +0000

>From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>

I think it may be the group sound I'm not enthralled
>by, and I'm a drummer, so why am I not slain by Elvin, but I am most
>definitely not slain by Elvin, and so, there I am. Nowhere.

Wow! Like Joey Baron, it's just pure joy to watch and hear Elvin Jones play,
he swings so hard yet so effortlessly! Can't imagine what it would have been
like with Trane. We're always joking that every aspiring drummer should be
made to see Elvin play live. Don't forget that he opted out when Trane
started to get OUT and brought Rashied Ali into the group, now he was the
template for 'free' drumming (q.v. Interstellar Space).

np: The Nice The Swedish Radio Sessions

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Carter Scholz's RADIANCE
Date: 10 Feb 2002 11:23:58 -0800

Speaking of Monk:
http://www.laweekly.com/ink/02/12/cover-wolf.shtml


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:Jack Johnson box-set/the riff
Date: 10 Feb 2002 20:36:43 +0100

I meant who composed it=2E If it is McLaughlin, he really is brilliant, or a=
t
least around that time (ca=2E classic Mahavishnu) really was brilliant as a
composer=2E
James Brown could have done a great song with that riff, in the line of "I'm
black and I'm proud" (my favorite J=2EB=2E tune, and I'm not black)=2E
Miles ought to have credited John, but maybe he had a problem with the fact
the blackest thing on the album (in homage to the first black sports star) w=
as
coming from a white dude=2E
Or maybe he "commissioned" John a funk riff "=E0 la J=2EB"=2E And therefore
considered it his=2E (?)

DY=2E

James Hale a =E9crit :

> It's McLaughlin=2E
> Sonny Sharrock can be heard adding wah-wah and feedback=2E
> There is already a bootleg circulating of Jack Johnson out-takes that make=
s
> it clear who's doing what=2E
>
> James Hale
>
> duncan youngerman wrote:
>
> > Hopefully the liner notes will tell us where/whom this great guitar riff
> > comes from=2E
> > DY=2E
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "John Schuller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sex Music (Most of you don't know how to fuck!)
Date: 10 Feb 2002 12:00:46 -0800

Damn, what the hell kind of sex are some of you having? Filmworks????

Isaac Hayes is good music to do it by. Miles Davis "On the Corner". Prince.
SHit like that. Not fucking Filmworks.....

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Sex Music (Most of you don't know how to fuck!)
Date: 10 Feb 2002 15:08:38 EST


--part1_147.94b9997.29982d46_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 2/10/2002 3:01:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> Damn, what the hell kind of sex are some of you having? Filmworks????
>
> Isaac Hayes is good music to do it by. Miles Davis "On the Corner". Prince.
>
> SHit like that. Not fucking Filmworks.....

Theres some real freaks on this list !

--part1_147.94b9997.29982d46_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/10/2002 3:01:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Damn, what the hell kind of sex are some of you having? Filmworks????<BR>
<BR>
Isaac Hayes is good music to do it by. Miles Davis "On the Corner". Prince. <BR>
SHit like that. Not fucking Filmworks.....</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Theres some real freaks on this list !</FONT></HTML>

--part1_147.94b9997.29982d46_boundary--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Shorter box set
Date: 10 Feb 2002 15:09:44 EST

Does anybody know anything about an upcoming Wayne Shorter box set ?  There
really should be one .......

Jody

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Sex music recoms
Date: 10 Feb 2002 15:55:33 EST

Basically, anything Bill Evans, especially him playing "Turn out the Stars" solo.  I also once dated a girl who dug New Adventures in Hi-Fi by REM in that way, but she was kind of strange, and I don't know if it was the music or just her.  Anyway, enjoy! (Litterally)

Ryan McCormack

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ari <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: sex muzik.
Date: 10 Feb 2002 21:56:45 +0100

> When the wife is in a certain mood...

...Merzbow's Music for Bondage Performance...

> ... makes interesting things happen.

Sorry, just trying to give it some Zorn-content ;-)

Ari


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Nirav Soni" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sex music recoms
Date: 10 Feb 2002 16:05:05 -0500

> The _Merzbox_ falls into this category too...at least, *I'd* be scared of
the
> woman that threw this on before she slipped out of that teddy.

If you can find someone amicable (which is a pretty big "if") japanese noise
is wonderful. Gov't Alpha, the Incapacitants, etc. I've heard good things
about the new Fennesz in this context as well.

Nirav
--
AIM: Icefactory37
"Duration is to the consciousness as light is to the eye" - Bill Viola


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Sex Music (JZ?)
Date: 10 Feb 2002 16:24:56 EST

In a message dated 2/10/02 12:30:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< I'd recommend Rodrigo's "Concierto de Aranjuez" and Ravels "Bolero".
   Pretty Spanish, uh? >>

Spanish/Bolero?  Yucky!  Give me a good album of firey Flamenco guitar
instead.


--
np: Picchio dal Pozzo- Camere Zimmer Rooms

=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles???????? and SEX!!
Date: 10 Feb 2002 16:24:58 EST

In a message dated 2/10/02 5:45:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

Me:
<< >> Well yeah...but how many _BB_-type women do you come across, outside
 the ones in films?

 I've been with one and there are many others out there.  I think you
 have been looking for the wrong type of women.  If silly college girls
 can dig it, so can intelligent woman. (snip) >>

I'm down here in the Deep South, and away from the Metro areas.  If it isn't
Country, Southern-styled Classic Rock, or 70's dance music, you'll be
listening to the crickets and tree frogs as accompaniment *long* before
finding a woman who'll grind to electric Miles.

<< By the way, I love Jack Johnson and can't wait until the box set comes
 out either at the end of this year or beginning of next.  Whoohooo!! >>

Me too, though I've yet to snag copies of the _SW_ or _BoC_ boxes...

--
np: Picchio dal Pozzo- Camere Zimmer Rooms

=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Sex Music (JZ?)
Date: 10 Feb 2002 16:37:42 -0500

Radiohead (Kid A and Amnesiac) might be a good compromise between
conventional tastes and the weirder, wanna listen to Noise while
romancin', crowd.  Just a thought, it has that nice techno pulse at
times and tender moments for cuddling.

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Kasra George Ahmadi <[e-mail]>
Subject: Coltrane on TV
Date: 10 Feb 2002 16:05:30 -0600

While subjecting myself to some TV this morning, I came upon a show on
Coltrane on the BET Network. I don't know if it was a comprehensive
documentary or just one that focused on his studies in music other than
Western Music. They showed clips of Ravi Shankar and Alla Rakha playing at
the Monterey Pop Festival and Coltrane's later performance at Newport. Does
anyone know where I can get the full work?
kasra

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: crymad <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sex music recoms
Date: 10 Feb 2002 14:08:19 -0800



Nirav Soni wrote:

> If you can find someone amicable (which is a pretty big "if") japanese noise
> is wonderful.

Yes, it is.  My wife melts to Boredoms Super Roots 5.  But she's
Japanese.  I don't think American women have this sort of thing in them.

--crymad

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Ricardo=20Campillo?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: morricone/pasolini
Date: 11 Feb 2002 00:57:12 +0100 (CET)

Someone knows if possible get the music of Pasolini's
The Trilogy of Live ,some selected and some composed
by morricone?
thanks in advance.
Regards for everybody.Ricardo.

n.p.:(a little late)Diamanda Galas "Malediction and prayer)

_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Chris Selvig <[e-mail]>
Subject: Sex music
Date: 10 Feb 2002 16:33:36 -0800

C'mon, no one on this list has sex - where would we find the time and
energy to argue about pop stars?

Chris Selvig


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Chris Selvig <[e-mail]>
Subject: Sex music
Date: 10 Feb 2002 16:37:58 -0800

Kurt G recommends any/all Loren MazzaCane Connors MellenCougar recordings
for getting it on - I recommend the Licht/Mazzacane LP on The Now Sound,
where the mastering job is so poor it sounds like someone took a disc
sander to each copy.  I guarantee it won't seem too short.

Chris Selvig


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Coltrane on TV
Date: 10 Feb 2002 20:04:35 -0500

There are three main Coltrane videos. I believe the Newport footage is from
The World Of John Coltrane. It's video only and taken from the audience in
what looks like Super 8. The sound is overlayed. The footage is only about
four or five minutes long.

Kasra George Ahmadi wrote:

> While subjecting myself to some TV this morning, I came upon a show on
> Coltrane on the BET Network. I don't know if it was a comprehensive
> documentary or just one that focused on his studies in music other than
> Western Music. They showed clips of Ravi Shankar and Alla Rakha playing at
> the Monterey Pop Festival and Coltrane's later performance at Newport. Does
> anyone know where I can get the full work?
> kasra
>
> -


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jon Mooneyham <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sex music
Date: 10 Feb 2002 19:43:20 -0600

Granted, this is a generalization, but in my experience=8A the ladies
*love* Chet Baker.

Jon M.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "carlos torres" <[e-mail]>
Subject: bailey and thurston moore: thirteen ghosts
Date: 10 Feb 2002 17:46:19 -0800

has anyone heard of the project derek bailey and thurston moore put out
together, called XIII GHOSTS? if so, how is it? are the albums worth
searching out?

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sex Music (Most of you don't know how to fuck!)
Date: 10 Feb 2002 16:04:41 -0500

> Damn, what the hell kind of sex are some of you having? Filmworks????
> Isaac Hayes is good music to do it by. Miles Davis "On the Corner".
Prince.
> SHit like that. Not fucking Filmworks.....

Isaac Hayes? "On the Corner?" Yawn.......i'll be sure to throw those on next
time I find myself in a blaxploitation porno.... until then, "In the mirror
of Maya Deren" is near-perfect background music for stinkholing.

andrew


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: sex muzik.
Date: 10 Feb 2002 21:09:32 -0500

Yeah, but if you use the real thing - Astor's own recording 'Tango: Zero
Hour' - you don't even need the wine and candles.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of [e-mail]

gidon kremer - homage a piazzolla.  this album, a little red wine, candles,
you're gonna get laid.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: bailey and thurston moore: thirteen ghosts
Date: 10 Feb 2002 21:27:41 -0500

13 Ghosts is actually a duo: Alex Ward on clarinet and sax, Switch on
Hammond B3 and electronics. Their second CD, 'Legend of the Blood Yeti' (on
the Infinite Chug label) features Bailey on one half and Moore on the other,
as invited guests. (There's another guitarist on the Moore part as well,
Andrew Clare.) If you're into Euro-improv of the Incus house style, you
won't be disappointed, especially with the Bailey stuff.

The other 13 Ghosts disc, 'Giganti Reptilicus Destructo Beam' (on Scatter)
does not feature Moore or Bailey but is quite fine anyway. Great design on
both as well.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of carlos torres
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 8:46 PM


has anyone heard of the project derek bailey and thurston moore put out
together, called XIII GHOSTS? if so, how is it? are the albums worth
searching out?

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


-


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: sex muzik.
Date: 10 Feb 2002 19:23:58 -0800

>>>Yeah, but if you use the real thing - Astor's own recording
'Tango: Zero
Hour' - you don't even need the wine and candles.<<<

You don't even need a partner.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: take the coltrane
Date: 10 Feb 2002 19:37:13 -0800

skip heller

> I always felt Led Zeppelin had a great producer and guitar player in Jimmy
> Page.

I felt they had a great kick drum in Bonham, but nothing else.  Plant is a
very polite fella, tho.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Miles ("On the corner") off list
Date: 10 Feb 2002 19:38:19 -0800

skip heller

> Is that David Creamer?
> I always wondered what happened to him.

He teaches and gigs occasionally in Northerm CA, last I heard.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers/ BRITNEY/
Date: 10 Feb 2002 19:40:05 -0800

skip heller

> This seems to be a recurring theme in a LOT of entertainers and performers of
> borderline-popular music.

Perhaps.  maybe that's why it's generally a disappointment when folks like
that do a "serious" recording of some some.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: nordine?
Date: 10 Feb 2002 19:41:59 -0800

skip heller

>
> Or rather.....I hate Nordine within the current cultural context, i.e., it's
> "cool" to like "funny" and "kitschy" stuff like "Colors."

Actually, COLORS was commercials for a paint store.

And as for my "cred", call it what you will, but Ken is one hell of a nice
guy and a creative thinker, and you tend to defend people like that.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: take the coltrane
Date: 11 Feb 2002 04:03:20 +0000

>From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>

> > I always felt Led Zeppelin had a great producer and guitar player in
>Jimmy
> > Page.
>
>I felt they had a great kick drum in Bonham, but nothing else.  Plant is a
>very polite fella, tho.

They also had a great knack for plagarism (Whole Lotta Love from Willie
Dixon, When The Levee Breaks from Memphis Minnie, Dazed and Confused from
Jake Holmes, Lemon Song from Robert Johnson, Black Mountain Side from Bert
Jansch, Stairway intro from Spirit, etc., etc.)

_________________________________________________________________
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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Hugo Linares" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: sex muzik.
Date: 11 Feb 2002 01:04:19 -0300

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C1B298.08FF3280
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Seconded; though I'd rather choose Astor's "La Camorra" (Nonesuch). A =
masterpiece.

Just my 2 pesos argentinos...

Hugo Linares
  ----- Mensaje original -----=20
  De: Steve Smith=20
  Para: [e-mail] ; [e-mail]=20
  Enviado: Domingo 10 de Febrero de 2002 11:09 PM
  Asunto: RE: sex muzik.


  Yeah, but if you use the real thing - Astor's own recording 'Tango: =
Zero
  Hour' - you don't even need the wine and candles.

  Steve Smith
  [e-mail]

  -----Original Message-----
  From: [e-mail]
  [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of =
[e-mail]

  gidon kremer - homage a piazzolla.  this album, a little red wine, =
candles,
  you're gonna get laid.


  -



------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C1B298.08FF3280
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2014.210" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Seconded; though I'd rather choose Astor's "La Camorra" (Nonesuch). =
A=20
masterpiece.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Just my 2 pesos argentinos...</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Hugo Linares</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Mensaje original ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>De:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]" =
title=[e-mail]>Steve Smith</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Para:</B> <A =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
  title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A> ; <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
  title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Enviado:</B> Domingo 10 de Febrero =
de 2002=20
  11:09 PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Asunto:</B> RE: sex muzik.</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>Yeah, but if you use the real thing - Astor's own =
recording=20
  'Tango: Zero<BR>Hour' - you don't even need the wine and =
candles.<BR><BR>Steve=20
  Smith<BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A><BR><BR>----=
-Original=20
  Message-----<BR>From: <A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">owner-zorn-list@lists.=
xmission.com</A><BR>[<A=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">mailto:owner-zorn-list=
@lists.xmission.com</A>]On=20
  Behalf Of <A =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A><BR><BR>gidon=20
  kremer - homage a piazzolla.  this album, a little red wine,=20
  candles,<BR>you're gonna get=20
laid.<BR><BR><BR>-<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0034_01C1B298.08FF3280--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "josephneff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Carter Scholz's RADIANCE
Date: 10 Feb 2002 23:26:18 -0500

Hello,
     ...actually, the Scribner's Paperback Fiction issue of the Gaddis novel
"A Frolic of His Own" has a small b&w snapshot of the man, looking quite
suave. Indeed, none of his other paperback's include pics. He's easily one
of the most blindingly brilliant prose writers that I've ever encountered.
Hell, this bit from "The Recognitions" made me shake my head in disbelief
and pure admiration:

    "science assures us that it is getting nearer to the solution of life, what
life IS, that is ("the ultimate mystery"), and offers anonymously
promulgated submicroscopic chemistry in eager substantiation. But no one has
even begun to explain what happened at the dirt track in Langhorne,
Pennsylvania about twenty years ago, when Jimmy Concannon's car threw a
wheel, and in a crowd of eleven thousand, it killed his mother."

    The Scholz looks promising.

    I remain...

    Joseph

    NP: Erica Pomerance- "You Used To Think" CD
    NR: John Barth- "Lost in the Funhouse"

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of s~Z
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2002 2:08 PM


>From the Gaddis-list:


"Members of this list might be interested in the new(first?) novel
by Carter Scholz, RADIANCE, just published by Picador USA. It's
very much in the vein of Gaddis/DeLillo/Pynchon/McElroy/Powers.
The dialogue is especially Gaddisian, (snip)
(And like Gaddis's novels, there's no photo of the author.)"




-


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers/ BRITNEY/ JAZZIZ
Date: 10 Feb 2002 22:27:32 -0600

Fred Heller([e-mail])@Sun, Feb 10, 2002 at 07:40:05PM -0800:
> Perhaps.  maybe that's why it's generally a disappointment when folks like
> that do a "serious" recording of some some.

actually i think it's the sign of a great artist if he or she can cross over
well and actually have a "serious" recording gain the same kind of respect and
admiration that the "pop" one does. it probably depends heavily on the styles
in question.

m


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: NZ: Carter Scholz's RADIANCE
Date: 10 Feb 2002 23:42:21 EST

This is definitely not a first novel.  SCholz published something in an Ace
sci-fi series that appeared in the wake of the first cyber-punk sci-fi.  Taht
was back in the middle 1980s.  I was impressed enough with it that I still
remember his name,  but more than that.....

jb


 "Members of this list might be interested in the new(first?) novel
 by Carter Scholz, RADIANCE, just published by Picador USA.  >>

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: piazzolla.
Date: 11 Feb 2002 01:11:28 EST

i pick the gidon kremer recording(s) over piazzolla's own, simply because i
think that gidon kremer's violin playing is perfectly dirty and
sexy/beautiful at the same time, and i love the arrangements on his CDs.
maybe the one exception i would make is the live disc, "adios nonino", which
completely rules.


-----
[ .n o t h i n g  i s  w h a t  i s  s a i d. ]

.k a t e  p e t e r s o n.
.c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r.
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>
<A HREF="http://www.icefoundation.org">http://www.icefoundation.org</A>
(roundtable)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Sex Music (Most of you don't know how to fuck!)
Date: 11 Feb 2002 07:51:12 +0100


----- Original Message -----

> Damn, what the hell kind of sex are some of you having? Filmworks????

Give Filmworks II a try, and have fun ;-)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Lev \"Ljova\" Zhurbin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=28My_Recap=29:_Britney=2C_Glenn_Gould=2C_Bj=F6rk?=
Date: 11 Feb 2002 03:38:13 -0500

Hi Y'all,

Happy New-Year!

I've been busy, but I saved all the Bj÷rk-related digests and just read
through them.

Patrice Roussel said:
>Britney Spears is at the top in a category with a lot of contenders and
very
>few elected. She does not do everything (like unloading the trucks, tune
the
>guitars, write the songs, etc), but the big boss at Ford does not put all
the
>screws on every car that leaves the plant... You see what I mean: she is
the
>top of the iceberg of a very popular act, the equivalent of a heavy
industry.
>Judging her with the criteria that you apply to experimental/improv/etc
does
>not make any sense. She is in a different league. You might not like what
she
>does, but to be where she is, she definitely have something.

You should hear her song "Slave 4 U". Sure, the lyrics suck.
But aside from that, the song has no harmony, no tonality.
And there's lots of "subliminal" overdubbed whispering.
What's not avant about it? I think "they tried".

I feel great pity for Britney. her contract probably says "we take 99%, you
keep 1%. It'll be more than your family ever made."
why else would someone make a girl from Louisiana famous, if she didn't even
win the Mickey Mouse club?
Surely there could've been better answers to the Aguilera motion than
plain-jane Britney.
I think Britney was cheaper than alternatives.



Skip H mused:
>Glenn Gould once said that it would be interesting to see what happened if
>musicians were completely annonymous and had no concept of who was
listening
>to them, why, or how much it sold.  Then, he opined, the artist would have
>to rely solely on his own artistic judgement.

You can (sort of) do that at Garageband.com


My thoughts re Bj÷rk:
A few days ago I had the corrupt pleasure of downloading the
first track from Bj÷rk's 1977 album (Bj÷rk was 12 years old), as well as her
short multi-flute composition, "Gl÷ra".
The track from 1977 is pure cheesy-pop, the flute composition is very
touching and though it tries to use complex chords, it's actually quite
simple (and once again, very touching).

So -- a cheezy-pop record at 12 years old, a classical flute piece, a jazz
album ("Gling-Glo"), Kukl, Sugarcubes, and solo Bjork.  There's also a
one-minute clip of Bj÷rk singing "Pierrot Lunaire", floating about the 'net.
(I've not been able to verify that this is INDEED Bj÷rk singing, so let's
say "attributed to".)  She's done a lot of diverse stuff over her
30-something years as a human.

Watching her New York concerts during the tour in October, I noticed a
simple trend -- most fans were comparatively complacent when she performed
songs from "Vespertine", but they cheered loudly when she did songs from
"Homogenic" and earlier albums.  It was a strange phenomenon -- seeing all
live musicians on stage, and audience barely reacting, then cut to some
early techno track with only Bjork onstage and soundtrack coming from the
speakers, and the crowd went wild. Silly people.

In November 2001, Bjork mentioned something about a New tour in 2002, this
time without orchestra, here:
http://www.bjork.com/grapewire/?id=182&year=2001#news


I like her work. It's passionate, scholarly and courageous. It's
exploratory, and for all the diversity of collaborators, very personal.

(Let's hope her Elektra contract runs out soon, and she can join the
Tzadikim).

Warmest,

Ljova

--------
Lev "Ljova" Zhurbin
http://Ljova.com/

"Do not fear mistakes - there are none."
        -Miles Davis


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Previte
Date: 11 Feb 2002 10:47:44 +0200


>Um - quite a few of you have been singing the praises of Bobby Previte
>lately (justifiably so) but no one responded to my enquiry about his new
Bump
>the Renaisance release...has no one out there in Zorn land heard it yet?

I have the privilege of holding the first copy of this album, which I've
bought from Previte himself during his BTR tour in Istanbul.

I see it as a not to be missed album and one of the best albums Previte had
released. It rocks and swings big time. Their live performance was great
also.

Cheers,
Umit.




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: sex muzik - jazziz
Date: 11 Feb 2002 03:45:56 EST

In the new JAZZIZ, (the one with Diana Krall on the cover.... trying to look
extra sexy to sell more records...)    Flip to the next to the last page.
Theres a really funny article by a writer named Michelle Mercer, in which she
talks all about how jazz music is really sexually stimulating.... then at the
end, she mentions a specific gig she saw a couple of years ago at the
Internet Cafe in NYC, a duet between William parker and Ellery Eskelin.   She
goes on about how it was a hot August night, the tension was building, people
were pulling icecubes from their drinks and rubbing them on their necks, so
on and so forth.  The music was just sooooo sexy.  Then they all went outside
and had a smoke.  I was AT that gig !  For some reason i wasnt picking up on
that vibe ..... but thats not surprising.  I also have a recording of that
gig.  Now i know what i'm going to play next time I have a lady over.  Who
wants to place bets on whether or not i score.

-Jody

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Richard Gardner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sex Music
Date: 11 Feb 2002 09:58:18 +0000

on 11/2/02 3:34 AM, Zorn List Digest at
[e-mail] wrote:

> Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 11:57:09 -0600
> From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: sex music... well, sorta
>
> It's not necessarily 'sex music', per se, but my wife and I had our first
> dance
> in our wedding to Bill Frisell's rendition of Have a Little Faith in Me.
>
> m

At the risk of sounding unbearably schmaltzy, the first day my partner and I
got together we happened to buy the 12 inch single version of Sun Ra
"Nuclear War". That night we danced many times to be the B side "Sometimes
I'm Happy". We both still love that record.

The Coltrane album that first made me "get" his music (and like a bolt from
the blue) was "Sun Ship". I know its not seen as one of the great earth
shaking Coltrane albums but it has always remained one of my favourites.

During the Jazz is Dead debate I couldn't help thinking of Derek Bailey's
excellent book "Improvisation". It's probably been discussed before on the
List. If not let me say that I think it was last updated in the early 90's
but still remains bang on the button today. It covers all the aspects of
Jazz/Improv development from the beginnings through to the kind of stuff
that Derek is involved with. It has a good objective viewpoint. And, by the
way, includes an interview with Zorn in which he discusses quite carefully
what is going on in Cobra and how he is fascinated by the way different
musicians behave.  (Frisell was not a motivator or troublemaker he just sat
back, let others do the decision making 'and played his ass off'). Highly
recommended to all those in the debate.

Richard Gardner


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Re: Doublemoon (was: Burhan Ocal and Jamaaladeen Tacuma)
Date: 11 Feb 2002 06:57:48 -0500

### "Groove alla Turca" by Burhan Ocal and Jamaaladeen Tacuma ###

* Perfect Sound Forever <[e-mail]> wrote:

>That's out on Doublemoon Records:
>http://www.doublemoon.com.tr/eng/home_eng.htm
>http://www.doublemoon.com.tr/eng/catalogue/catalouge.htm
>Amazon sells some of his other releases but not this one

Right, so does anyone know where one can get the Doublemoon catalog
OUTSIDE of ordering from Turkey?  I have a few titles that I've been
lucky to find, and have seen _a few_ as imports in North American
stores, but nothing else.  The artwork for the the Birds & Blues
(UK?) issue of "Groove alla Turca" that seems to be everywhere is
horrendous, so I wouldn't mind the original ...

Thanks


-Patrick




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Theo Klaase <[e-mail]>
Subject: Bill Frisell/Brian Blade - Alas No Axis.
Date: 11 Feb 2002 05:28:14 -0800 (PST)

    There was a date last year that included Brian
Blade sitting in the Bill Frisell Trio...  I've heard
one of the recordings for the some "big shoe" and I'm
looking to get more of the tunes they played...  Does
anyone have the other tunes they could send me via
e-mail?  Thanks in advance...

-Theo

    Due date for the new Alaxnoaxis (Jim Black) album
is May 7th for North America...  I hear it's March for Europe...

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Alban Jacques <[e-mail]>
Subject: Absinthe trip suggestion...
Date: 11 Feb 2002 14:46:29 +0100

Hi,
this week end, i was listening the great album of naked city
Absinthe, it was really wonderful, an amazing dream for me... If you
have not listened this album for a longtime. Try again and travel in
this beautiful absinthe world...
A

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Previte
Date: 11 Feb 2002 08:55:14 -0500





----- Original Message -----

> i just played a tune from it on my radio show this morning that was really
> nice, but that's all i've heard.  Ray Anderson, Marty Ehrlich, Wayne
Horvitz
> (piano), Bobby and I'm spacing on the bass player.  solid line-up,
atrocious
> cover art.
> sean

What label it's on?

Palmetto


-



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: William Crump <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #773 (Carter Scholz)
Date: 11 Feb 2002 06:56:23 -0800 (PST)

Somebody wrote:

>>This is definitely not a first novel.  SCholz
published something in an
Ace
sci-fi series that appeared in the wake of the first
cyber-punk sci-fi.
Taht
was back in the middle 1980s.  I was impressed enough
with it that I
still
remember his name,  but more than that.....
<<

because somebody else wrote:

>> "Members of this list might be interested in the
new(first?) novel
 by Carter Scholz, RADIANCE, just published by Picador
USA.  >>

PALIMPSESTS, by Carter Scholz and Glenn Harcourt. In
the New Ace Science Fiction Specials series edited by
Terry Carr around '83-'85. I have a copy around here
somewhere, but can't find it. I remember the
experience of enjoying it quite a bit, but, it being
fairly Pynchonesque, couldn't begin to tell you at
this date what it's "about."

I'm glad Scholz is still around and writing...I've
enjoyed his work as far back as the late 70s, when he
was reviewing science fiction in Gary Groth's
venerable agitprop magazine The Comics Journal...

William Crump
Amory, Mississippi

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Richard Gardner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Absinthe trip suggestion...
Date: 11 Feb 2002 15:10:39 +0000

on 11/2/02 1:44 PM, Zorn List Digest at
[e-mail] wrote:

> Hi,
> this week end, i was listening the great album of naked city
> Absinthe, it was really wonderful, an amazing dream for me... If you
> have not listened this album for a longtime. Try again and travel in
> this beautiful absinthe world...
> A

I really go along with that. A lot of people including the Penguin Guide put
it down as a kind of worthless afterthought but I rate it as a wonderfully
dreamy  evocation of the time.

(Joey Baron on bags of dry leaves I believe.)

I'll take another glass ....

Richard Gardner


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Theo Klaase <[e-mail]>
Subject: Filmworks/Filmtracks 2000
Date: 11 Feb 2002 07:32:46 -0800 (PST)

     Those of you who really enjoy JZ's Filmworks
series take a hard look at Bill Laswell's recent
release on Tzadik called "Filmtracks 2000..."  Really
good stuff...


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Scott Handley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Coltrane SUN SHIP (was Re: Sex Music)
Date: 11 Feb 2002 07:34:33 -0800 (PST)

--- Richard Gardner <[e-mail]>
wrote:
> The Coltrane album that first made me "get" his
> music (and like a bolt from
> the blue) was "Sun Ship". I know its not seen as one
> of the great earth
> shaking Coltrane albums but it has always remained
> one of my favourites.

This album is an awesome, towering achievement, and
should be the very first Coltrane item in anyone's
collection who, somehow, loves free jazz and free
improvisation and/or punk and/or any genre of
confrontational energy music.  I love the usual picks
for "essential" Trane records as much as the next
jazzbo, but SUN SHIP just teeters on that edge, the
intimate disaster photo before the classic group came
unhinged (maybe not the very last, but close), and
Trane's use of "cells" as launching pads seems to be
unique among his studio records.  Elvin's drumming is
savage-intensity tactical bombing on the piece "Amen",
which will forever render recipients of my mix tapes
slack-jawed and breathless.  This is the damage.

-----s

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ajda the Turkish Queen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Seductive sounds A.K.A. Sex Music
Date: 11 Feb 2002 11:28:02 -0500

The ultimate in seductive soundtracks is Elysian Fields.

If this fails to put you in the mood, you may have a heart of stone.

;)
Ajda the Turkish Queen
http://mp3.com/turkishqueen
http://wmbr.mit.edu/schedesc.html#binge
Remix http://drawbridge.com/countess/music.html


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "David Beardsley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Carter Scholz's RADIANCE
Date: 11 Feb 2002 11:32:14 -0500

He's also a composer.

http://www.frogpeak.org/fpartists/fpscholz.html


* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ajda the Turkish Queen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Self sex music
Date: 11 Feb 2002 11:33:43 -0500

>>>Yeah, but if you use the real thing - Astor's own recording
'Tango: Zero
Hour' - you don't even need the wine and candles.<<<

>You don't even need a partner.

Well that brings up a new topic - music to masturbate to:

I'll start with Rob Ellis "Music for the Home" on the Leaf label.  Add to
that Khan with Julee Cruise...


Ajda the Turkish Queen
http://mp3.com/turkishqueen
http://wmbr.mit.edu/schedesc.html#binge
Remix http://drawbridge.com/countess/music.html


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Filmworks/Filmtracks 2000
Date: 11 Feb 2002 12:27:57 EST


--part1_84.2328b563.2999591d_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 2/11/02 10:33:43 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


>      Those of you who really enjoy JZ's Filmworks
> series take a hard look at Bill Laswell's recent
> release on Tzadik called "Filmtracks 2000..."  Really
> good stuff...
>
>

Yes, but caveat emptor - this is an undesignated as such compilation of all
previously released material.

Dale.

--part1_84.2328b563.2999591d_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c0c0c0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">In a message dated 2/11/02 10:33:43 AM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">     Those of you who really enjoy JZ's Filmworks<BR>
series take a hard look at Bill Laswell's recent<BR>
release on Tzadik called "Filmtracks 2000..."  Really<BR>
good stuff...<BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c0c0c0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BR>
Yes, but caveat emptor - this is an undesignated as such compilation of all previously released material.<BR>
<BR>
Dale.</FONT></HTML>

--part1_84.2328b563.2999591d_boundary--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: jack johnson/sex music
Date: 11 Feb 2002 17:51:02 +0000 (GMT)

------=_Part_3775_7895092.1013449862148
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

James Hale wrote:

>The film has long been tied up by copyright issues. Of the few people I know who
>have seen it the consensus isn't too encouraging.
>Brock Peters does that narration on the recording.

I saw it a few years ago at the NFT in London. It's OK.

More interestingly I'm sure there's music on the soundtrack that didn't make it to the album - a drum solo, for example, plus some other stuff. Can't wait for the box to see if I imagined it all.

Oh, and I've found that John Parrish & Peej Harvey's "Dance Hall At Louse Point" does it for me, although the cries of "Is That All There Is?" from the penultimate track threaten to put a downer on things...

Alastair


----------
Get a free, personalised email address at http://another.com
TXT ALRT! Stop wasting money now. Send FREE, personalised txt
msgs to UK mobile phones from http://another.com
------=_Part_3775_7895092.1013449862148--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (My Recap): Britney, Glenn Gould, Bj=?ISO-8859-1?B?9g==?=rk
Date: 11 Feb 2002 09:54:09 -0800

on 2/11/02 12:38 AM, Lev "Ljova" Zhurbin at [e-mail] wrote:

> I feel great pity for Britney. her contract probably says "we take 99%, you
> keep 1%. It'll be more than your family ever made."
> why else would someone make a girl from Louisiana famous, if she didn't even
> win the Mickey Mouse club?
> Surely there could've been better answers to the Aguilera motion than
> plain-jane Britney.
> I think Britney was cheaper than alternatives.

I think someone who really knew what he was doing made her look unstoppable
to a group of high bidders.  I doubt that her her contract was badly
drafted.  She came at the record business with a track record, and that
alone puts you in a better position to negotiate.  And the sheer amount of
tangental contracts she's in on tells me that she owns enough of herself not
to give everything away to one contract (otherwise, she'd never go after
this other stuff, as it would amount to more work for less money).

In the high-stakes rock game, you don't often hear about the people who were
signed cheaply.  If there's nothing at stake, the need for the push is less
obvious.  Somebody in Brittney's camp knew how to package her to the record
execs.  The fact that she can sing in key and has some stage presence did
not hurt matters, either.  There was no way to look at her and think she
wouldn't sell.  Her appeal -- what it is and to whom she would be easily
sold -- is pretty evident.  So her representatives went in there, probably
demanding something substantial.  And got it.

Funny thing -- I don't enjoy listening to her, but I admire her skill and
professionalism in the way I give it up to Barry Manilow (and not, say, Neil
Diamond).  Her talent for what she does -- even if you don't like what she
does -- is evident, and she never misses a spot.  She's got the clothes
down, the moves, and all that stuff, and I think it's as much her as it is
her trainers.  She has an affinity for what she does that you can't fake.
It makes you wonder what she would do if she had better taste.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Carter Scholz's RADIANCE
Date: 11 Feb 2002 11:30:19 -0600

Folks on the list might be interested to note that Scholz is also a
composer: <http://www.frogpeak.org/fpartists/fpscholz.html>

I only know of some electronic works for unusual tunings.


>  >From the Gaddis-list:
>
>
>"Members of this list might be interested in the new(first?) novel
>by Carter Scholz, RADIANCE, just published by Picador USA. It's
>very much in the vein of Gaddis/DeLillo/Pynchon/McElroy/Powers.
>The dialogue is especially Gaddisian, even to using the European
>dash instead of quotes, and the science/technology content (mostly
>nuclear weaponry R&D) recalls the others. A wide range of
>references too, from da Vinci's notebooks to the Sumerian myth of
>Ishtar's descent to the netherworld to the Butthole Surfers. (Now
>that's what I call variety.) I've read only 50 pages so far, but
>I'm very impressed and I'm guessing many of you will like it too.
>(And like Gaddis's novels, there's no photo of the author.)"
>

--
Herb Levy
P O Box 9369  Forth Wort, Texas  76147  USA
817  377-2983
[e-mail]

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20(My=20Recap):=20Britney,=20Glenn=20Gould,=20?=
Date: 11 Feb 2002 14:39:23 EST


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In a message dated 2/11/2002 12:51:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> Funny thing -- I don't enjoy listening to her, but I admire her skill and
> professionalism in the way I give it up to Barry Manilow (and not, say,
> Neil
> Diamond).  Her talent for what she does -- even if you don't like what she
> does -- is evident, and she never misses a spot.  She's got the clothes
> down, the moves, and all that stuff, and I think it's as much her as it is
> her trainers.  She has an affinity for what she does that you can't fake.
> It makes you wonder what she would do if she had better taste.

I've worked with her a couple of times, and i didnt see any skill, or
professionalism. But really, i dont care......  Props to her management team
though, they did a great job.

Jody

PS - i'm talking about Britney

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/11/2002 12:51:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Funny thing -- I don't enjoy listening to her, but I admire her skill and<BR>
professionalism in the way I give it up to Barry Manilow (and not, say, Neil<BR>
Diamond).  Her talent for what she does -- even if you don't like what she<BR>
does -- is evident, and she never misses a spot.  She's got the clothes<BR>
down, the moves, and all that stuff, and I think it's as much her as it is<BR>
her trainers.  She has an affinity for what she does that you can't fake.<BR>
It makes you wonder what she would do if she had better taste.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
I've worked with her a couple of times, and i didnt see any skill, or professionalism. But really, i dont care......  Props to her management team though, they did a great job.<BR>
<BR>
Jody<BR>
<BR>
PS - i'm talking about Britney</FONT></HTML>

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From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sex Music (JZ?/ E#)
Date: 11 Feb 2002 21:08:27 +0100


My mistake=2E=2E  It's called "Autar", (Elliott Sharp, 2000) on Zuta music=
=2E

Highly recommended mellow frantic shimmering microtonal music for
acoustic guitar and 2 sumsumiyas (mid-eastern dulcimmer sounding lyres)=2E

"Patrice L=2E Roussel" a =E9crit :

> On Sat, 09 Feb 2002 23:47:27 +0100  duncan youngerman wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Samerivertwice@aol=2Ecom a =E9crit :
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Given the depth and breadth of musical knowledge of this group, I
> > >> bet we could come up with quite a long list of
> > >> make-sweet-love-down-by-the-fire recommendations=2E
> > >>
> > >> Anyone?
> >
> > > Elliott Sharp's "Autaria"
>
> What is this record? Never heatd of it=2E
>
>         Patrice=2E


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From: "John Schuller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Recommendations?
Date: 11 Feb 2002 13:54:05 -0800

I need recommendations on what are the "neccesary" albums by each of these
artists---

AMM

Art Ensemble of Chicago

Albert Ayler

THANKS!!!!

John S.

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Recommendations?
Date: 11 Feb 2002 15:02:18 -0700




>AMM

Laminal (3CD) is a good overview of their various incarnations
My preferance is for the music of the current format:
John Tilbury - piano, Eddie Prevost - percussion, Keith Rowe - Guitar

"Newfoundland" is a good example as is "live in Allentown" and
"inexhaustible Document" features the trio plus a cellist.

as for *necessary*...they're all pretty different.

>Albert Ayler

Spiritual Unity (calibre/esp)
Bells/Prophecy (calibre/esp)
Live at Village Vanguard (impulse)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ari <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Recommendations?
Date: 11 Feb 2002 23:21:55 +0100



> From: "John Schuller" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Mon, 11 Feb 2002 13:54:05 -0800
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Recommendations?
>
> I need recommendations on what are the "neccesary" albums by each of these
> artists---
>
> Art Ensemble of Chicago

Fanfare for the Warriors!!


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Recommendations?
Date: 11 Feb 2002 17:30:08 -0500

For AMM, I agree with Matthew, 'Newfoundland' is a fine starting point,
though I actually listen to 'The Nameless Uncarved Block' (by the same trio
lineup) far more.

For the Art Ensemble, this is tougher because the most important document,
'People in Sorrow,' remains out of print and never issued on CD (there's
allegedly a French EMI CD issue with 'People in Sorrow' and 'Les Stances a
Sophie,' which would be the single best starting point, but I've never seen
a copy nor heard from anyone who has - 'Les Stances a Sophie' is out on CD
but fine as it is, I don't find it to be particularly representative of the
gropu in a broader sense). So, for early stuff (pre-Don Moye), you could do
far worse than the inexpensive BYG reissue (on Charly in Europe and Fuel
2000 in the US) of 'A Jackson in Your House/Message to Our Folks,' which
documents a very fertile period. For later stuff, I prefer live albums. The
semi-authorized 'Live in Berlin' on WestWind is my favorite, but 'Live in
Tokyo' on DIW and 'Urban Bushmen' on ECM are able substitutes. You really
only get a sense of the band's diversity over the course of a full,
ritualistic concert performance. There's a great concert from the Jazz
Showcase in Chicago available on VHS as well.

For Ayler, I'll echo Matt again: 'Spiritual Unity' for the incredible early
trio, his most important single achievement, and 'Live in Greenwich Village'
for the later, more ornate and string-laden stuff. I'd also add 'Vibrations'
featuring the trio plus Don Cherry if you can find a copy.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "nors5379" <[e-mail]>
Subject: NYC downtown photography/sun ship
Date: 11 Feb 2002 22:51:50 GMT

i was curious if anybody could point me in the right
direction of a photo archive i found about 6 months ago that
was maintained by possibly a german or russian fellow that
photographs many shows around the NYC area. mostly at the
tonic from what i can gather out of my memory. i remember
the url having something like ...downtown.com? if you know
what im talking about i would be forever grateful if you
sent me the link. i've been searching and searching to find
this elusive site once again.

also i must second coltrane's 'sun ship' as a catalyst
towards my appreciation of his music. i had the obvious a
love supreme in my collection, but it did not strike me
quite as much as 'sun ship' did the first time i heard it.
theres a bass solo very late in the disc that makes me
shiver each time i hear it.

what i find very hard, as a relatively new person to jazz,
is that there is such an abundance of recordings that its
very hard to pick a beginning spot. so i find it nice that
these arguements of "miles sucks or yeah miles!" occur
because i can create an idea of what to check out. though i
must admit i am not much of a miles fan, while many of my
friends are. i just cant find what everyone cherishes and
speaks about with my own ears. but i wont deny that he's an
amazing musician because he obviously is.
-darryl.
Darryl Norsen
db.etree.org/shortround
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

if I were an easy bright boy I think
I would say something like, "cleaning
the fingernails with a dirty fingernail
file is a form of masterbation." and I
would probably win a scholarship, a grant,
the king's sword on shoulder and 14 hot
pieces of ass. -charles bukowski


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #774--Carter Scholz
Date: 11 Feb 2002 17:59:03 EST

That's the book.  It was the very best of the ones (3 or 4) that I read on
the series.

Jerry

> PALIMPSESTS, by Carter Scholz and Glenn Harcourt. In
>  the New Ace Science Fiction Specials series edited by
>  Terry Carr around '83-'85. I have a copy around here
>  somewhere, but can't find it. I remember the
>  experience of enjoying it quite a bit, but, it being
>  fairly Pynchonesque, couldn't begin to tell you at
>  this date what it's "about."

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Peter Gannushkin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: NYC downtown photography/sun ship
Date: 11 Feb 2002 23:59:35 +0100

Hello Darryl,

Monday, February 11, 2002, you wrote to me:

n> i was curious if anybody could point me in the right
n> direction of a photo archive i found about 6 months ago that
n> was maintained by possibly a german or russian fellow that
n> photographs many shows around the NYC area. mostly at the
n> tonic from what i can gather out of my memory. i remember
n> the url having something like ...downtown.com? if you know
n> what im talking about i would be forever grateful if you
n> sent me the link. i've been searching and searching to find
n> this elusive site once again.

It cannot be easier. The guy is me, the link is
http://www.downtownmusic.net/.

NP: Paris Combo "Paris Combo" (CD), On N'a Pas Besoin [4:09]
--
Best regards,
Peter Gannushkin
e-mail: [e-mail]
URL: http://www.downtownmusic.net/


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: (My Recap): Britney, Glenn Gould, Bj=?ISO-8859-1?B?9g==?=rk
Date: 11 Feb 2002 15:31:34 -0800

> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

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Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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on 2/11/02 11:39 AM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

I've worked with her a couple of times, and i didnt see any skill, or
professionalism. But really, i dont care......  Props to her management team
though, they did a great job.

Jody

I'll buy that.  Is her dance coach attacthed to her hip at all times? That
would certainly help.  OTOH, props to her for fooling me.

skip h

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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: (My Recap): Britney, Glenn Gould, Bj?rk</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
on 2/11/02 11:39 AM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2">I've worked with her a couple of times, and i di=
dnt see any skill, or professionalism. But really, i dont care......  P=
rops to her management team though, they did a great job.<BR>
<BR>
Jody<BR>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><BR>
</FONT>I'll buy that.  Is her dance coach attacthed to her hip at all =
times? That would certainly help.  OTOH, props to her for fooling me.<B=
R>
<BR>
skip h
</BODY>
</HTML>


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From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Absinthe trip suggestion...
Date: 12 Feb 2002 00:50:02 +0100

> I really go along with that. A lot of people including the Penguin Guide
put
> it down as a kind of worthless afterthought but I rate it as a wonderfully

The best NC record for me


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Odp:_=28My_Recap=29:_Britney=2C_Glenn_Gould=2C_Bj=F6rk?=
Date: 12 Feb 2002 00:54:02 +0100


----- Original Message -----

> Funny thing -- I don't enjoy listening to her, but I admire her skill and
> professionalism in the way I give it up to Barry Manilow (and not, say,
Neil

I like the way her stuff is recorded - really liked the very close recording
of vocals on 'oops, i did it again'. Well done.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [chi-improv] "Dig this:"
Date: 11 Feb 2002 20:21:38 -0500

on 02.02.11 12:10 PM, Margaret Davis at [e-mail] wrote:

> even Rick
> Lopez himself seems to have forgotten about
> it.

Apologia Marggee. But mine was always preference-driven, locked into a form
chosen for and separated from the main body of the letter, and yours was
not, and so I thought you were over-reacting as you sometimes do, no
offense, and so yes, I'm sorry, and what the hell???  My lack of perfect
responses lately is very debilitating.

Repeat after me: PER-CO-DAN.

back to the couch,
RL
----------
[  All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k  ]

Sessionographies :
CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.

Discographies :
COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN.

Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag;
ETC.,
----------
*** THINGS 4 SALE ***  [Updated: 01.12.01]
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/ChipsInCashing.html




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Craig S Nixon <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Previte
Date: 11 Feb 2002 22:14:06 -0500

Sean Westergaard wrote:
> i just played a tune from it on my radio show this morning that was
really
> nice, but that's all i've heard.  Ray Anderson, Marty Ehrlich, Wayne
Horvitz
> (piano), Bobby and I'm spacing on the bass player.  solid line-up,
atrocious
> cover art.

The bassist is Steve Swallow and, indeed, it is a good one. As usual many
reprises of themes from earlier works, mainly "Hue and Cry", a disc that
I was glad to hear someone here praise as their favorite among Bobby's
work. As on the earlier "Pushing The Envelope" Ehrlich is on his
less-seldom heard tenor, and Anderson and Horvitz are in fine form as
well. Swallow is relegated to a largely subliminal role in the mix, a
minor quibble compared to the hack job done in the mixing of Ehrlich's
own (otherwise beautiful) "Song", and enja release from last year.

If you received the promo release the cover art does indeed suck, and
doesn't give a clue as to what exactly is Joe Bowie's contribution here.
I had to check out the press release for any info on that. In light of
the 9/11 events, the exploding building graphics have been replaced and a
.jpg of the re-worked cover art is available.

Now, over to Steve Smith for a proper review....

craig nixon
revolution in sound
greenville, sc
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Hugo Linares" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Filmworks/Filmtracks 2000
Date: 12 Feb 2002 00:26:00 -0300

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I have to disagree with you, Theo. It's my first Laswell, and in my =
humble opinion it's weak and boring.
Don't think Laswell's an overrated musician, do I?

Later,

Hugo Linares
NP: Franz Koglmann_Venus in Transit_(Between the lines). Probably a =
"cold" recording on a first listening by this incredible Austrian =
composer & trumpeter, but  worth the price after repeated listenings.
There's a impresive cast of "stars" that includes Chris Speed, Michael =
Rabinowitz (bassoon), Mat Maneri (viola) and Dave Fiuczynski among =
others.
Europe also rules!

  ----- Mensaje original -----=20
  De: Theo Klaase=20
  Para: Zorn List=20
  Enviado: Lunes 11 de Febrero de 2002 12:32 PM
  Asunto: Filmworks/Filmtracks 2000


       Those of you who really enjoy JZ's Filmworks
  series take a hard look at Bill Laswell's recent
  release on Tzadik called "Filmtracks 2000..."  Really
  good stuff...


  __________________________________________________
  Do You Yahoo!?
  Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
  http://greetings.yahoo.com

  -



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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2014.210" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>I have to disagree with you, Theo. It's my first Laswell, and in my =
humble=20
opinion it's weak and boring.</DIV>
<DIV>Don't think Laswell's an overrated musician, do I?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Later,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Hugo Linares</DIV>
<DIV>NP: Franz Koglmann_Venus in Transit_(Between the lines). Probably a =
"cold"=20
recording on a first listening by this incredible Austrian composer =
&=20
trumpeter, but  worth the price after repeated listenings.</DIV>
<DIV>There's a impresive cast of "stars" that includes Chris Speed, =
Michael=20
Rabinowitz (bassoon), Mat Maneri (viola) and Dave Fiuczynski among =
others.</DIV>
<DIV>Europe also rules!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Mensaje original ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>De:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]" =
title=[e-mail]>Theo=20
  Klaase</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Para:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
  title=[e-mail]>Zorn List</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Enviado:</B> Lunes 11 de Febrero de =
2002=20
  12:32 PM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Asunto:</B> Filmworks/Filmtracks =
2000</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>     Those of you who really enjoy =
JZ's=20
  Filmworks<BR>series take a hard look at Bill Laswell's =
recent<BR>release on=20
  Tzadik called "Filmtracks 2000..."  Really<BR>good=20
  =
stuff...<BR><BR><BR>__________________________________________________<BR=
>Do=20
  You Yahoo!?<BR>Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!<BR><A =

  =
href=3D"http://greetings.yahoo.com">http://greetings.yahoo.com</A><BR><BR=
>-<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Previte
Date: 11 Feb 2002 23:01:34 -0500

Craig:

That review was as proper as anything I could write at the moment, and I'm
with you as to the disc's good points. If it didn't blow me away, it's
because A) it's a pretty low key blowing record by Bobby's standards, at
least as regards compositional rigor, and B) I'm much more absorbed at the
moment by his new Tzadik disc, which really does fully realize the Miro
pieces more than the live demo from the UK tour did.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - something by Shirley Horn...

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Craig S Nixon
Sent: Monday, February 11, 2002 10:14 PM


Sean Westergaard wrote:
> i just played a tune from it on my radio show this morning that was
really
> nice, but that's all i've heard.  Ray Anderson, Marty Ehrlich, Wayne
Horvitz
> (piano), Bobby and I'm spacing on the bass player.  solid line-up,
atrocious
> cover art.

The bassist is Steve Swallow and, indeed, it is a good one. As usual many
reprises of themes from earlier works, mainly "Hue and Cry", a disc that
I was glad to hear someone here praise as their favorite among Bobby's
work. As on the earlier "Pushing The Envelope" Ehrlich is on his
less-seldom heard tenor, and Anderson and Horvitz are in fine form as
well. Swallow is relegated to a largely subliminal role in the mix, a
minor quibble compared to the hack job done in the mixing of Ehrlich's
own (otherwise beautiful) "Song", and enja release from last year.

If you received the promo release the cover art does indeed suck, and
doesn't give a clue as to what exactly is Joe Bowie's contribution here.
I had to check out the press release for any info on that. In light of
the 9/11 events, the exploding building graphics have been replaced and a
.jpg of the re-worked cover art is available.

Now, over to Steve Smith for a proper review....

craig nixon
revolution in sound
greenville, sc
________________________________________________________________
GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO!
Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less!
Join Juno today!  For your FREE software, visit:
http://dl.www.juno.com/get/web/.

-


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Hugo Linares" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: piazzolla.
Date: 12 Feb 2002 01:25:25 -0300

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I accept the reasons of your choice, but let me disagree with you, so =
that if you really like to listen to "a perfectly dirty violin's =
playing" you'll have to dig in the roots, I mean Fernando Suarez Paz, an =
outstanding Argentinian violinist. You can check his playing out on =
Piazzolla's "The Central ark Concert" (Chesky Records), among others =
recordings.

Later,

Hugo Linares
NP: Tiziano Tononi & The Society of Freely Sincopated Organic Pulses _We =
did it, we did it!_ (Splasch Records). Music of Rahsaan Roland Kirk, =
Duke Ellington, Fats Waller, Sidney Bechet, Charles Mingus, Archie =
Shepp, Thelonious Monk, John Coltrane, Stevie Wonder, Jimi Hendrix, Bob =
Marley "as seen, felt and re-interpreted by Tiziano Tononi".=20
Outstanding, terrific, amazing triple cd set. Herb Robertson, Gianluigi =
Trovesi, Michel Godard, and other great musicians will "burn" your ears =
forever.
Don't miss Andrea Rainoldi on samplers, turntables and electronic =
devices!
By the way, Tononi's plays drums, percussion and siren!


  ----- Mensaje original -----=20
  De: [e-mail]=20
  Para: [e-mail]=20
  Enviado: Lunes 11 de Febrero de 2002 03:11 AM
  Asunto: piazzolla.


  i pick the gidon kremer recording(s) over piazzolla's own, simply =
because i=20
  think that gidon kremer's violin playing is perfectly dirty and=20
  sexy/beautiful at the same time, and i love the arrangements on his =
CDs. =20
  maybe the one exception i would make is the live disc, "adios nonino", =
which=20
  completely rules.


  -----
  [ .n o t h i n g  i s  w h a t  i s  s a i d. ]

  .k a t e  p e t e r s o n.
  .c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r.
  <A HREF=3D"http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
  http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>
  <A =
HREF=3D"http://www.icefoundation.org">http://www.icefoundation.org</A> =20
  (roundtable)

  -



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<HTML><HEAD>
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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2014.210" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>I accept the reasons of your choice, but let me disagree =
with you, so=20
that if you really like to listen to "a perfectly dirty violin's =
playing"=20
you'll have to dig in the roots, I mean Fernando Suarez Paz, an =
outstanding=20
Argentinian violinist. You can check his playing out on Piazzolla's "The =
Central=20
ark Concert" (Chesky Records), among others recordings.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Later,</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Hugo Linares</DIV>
<DIV>NP: Tiziano Tononi & The Society of Freely =
Sincopated Organic=20
Pulses _We did it, we did it!_ (Splasch Records). Music of Rahsaan =
Roland Kirk,=20
Duke Ellington, Fats Waller, Sidney Bechet, Charles Mingus, Archie =
Shepp,=20
Thelonious Monk, John Coltrane, Stevie Wonder, Jimi Hendrix, Bob Marley =
"as=20
seen, felt and re-interpreted by Tiziano Tononi". </DIV>
<DIV>Outstanding, terrific, amazing triple cd set. Herb Robertson, =
Gianluigi=20
Trovesi, Michel Godard, and other great musicians will "burn" your ears=20
forever.</DIV>
<DIV>Don't miss Andrea Rainoldi on samplers, turntables and electronic=20
devices!</DIV>
<DIV>By the way, Tononi's plays drums, percussion and siren!</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Mensaje original ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>De:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]" =
title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A> </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Para:</B> <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]"=20
  title=[e-mail]>[e-mail]</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Enviado:</B> Lunes 11 de Febrero de =
2002=20
  03:11 AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Asunto:</B> piazzolla.</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV>i pick the gidon kremer recording(s) over piazzolla's =
own,=20
  simply because i <BR>think that gidon kremer's violin playing is =
perfectly=20
  dirty and <BR>sexy/beautiful at the same time, and i love the =
arrangements on=20
  his CDs.  <BR>maybe the one exception i would make is the live =
disc,=20
  "adios nonino", which <BR>completely rules.<BR><BR><BR>-----<BR>[ .n o =
t h i n=20
  g  i s  w h a t  i s  s a i d. ]<BR><BR>.k a t =
e  p e=20
  t e r s o n.<BR>.c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r.<BR><A=20
  HREF=3D"http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html"><BR><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">http://www.geocities.=
com/uforbk8/kate.html</A></A><BR><A=20
  HREF=3D"http://www.icefoundation.org"><A=20
  =
href=3D"http://www.icefoundation.org">http://www.icefoundation.org</A><=
;/A> =20
  <BR>(roundtable)<BR><BR>-<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0040_01C1B364.25D4F760--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Music by Ruth Crawford Seeger & Johanna M Beyer in RealAudio,
Date: 11 Feb 2002 22:25:43 -0600

Hi y'all,

This week on Mappings <http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/>,
you'll hear music by composers Ruth Crawford Seeger & Johanna M Beyer.

The show went online Monday evening around 10:00 PM (-0600 GMT) and
will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program
(featuring works by Carl Stone) is still available in the Mappings
archive <http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/index1.htm>,
where you can also find play lists for the program since it began in
March 1998.

This week Antenna Radio will be moving to a new server, with a
slightly different hierarchy for the Web site. These URLs should work
at least for the next few weeks though.

Hope you tune in to the program.

Bests,

Herb

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "nors5379" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: NYC down photography/sun ship
Date: 12 Feb 2002 04:44:55 GMT

first and fore most, thank you very much peter for sending
me the link to your site. its about that time again where im
going to shoot a couple nights worth of film for various
groups and i want to see what approaches others have taken
to concert photography so i dont get in the same old rut.
and you have a very wonderful site as well.
and huge made the comment that he finds laswell's stuff
boring. well i cant full agree or disagree because i am not
familiar with all of laswell's catalog, but i am fan of the
praxis discs and especially fond of the recent Operazone
project he did with Graham Haynes on Knitting Factory
Records. The Knit threw the disc into my order this past
december when they were having the buy 3 get 2 free sale and
i was pleasantly surprised at how dynamic of an album it is
given the basis is interpretations of opera pieces. it is a
extremely soothing album and its something you can pop on as
background music and not be easily disturbed. id highly
recommend it those that are digging that electronica jazz
realm that i am growing even more fond of these days as
well.
-darryl.
Darryl Norsen
db.etree.org/shortround
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

if I were an easy bright boy I think
I would say something like, "cleaning
the fingernails with a dirty fingernail
file is a form of masterbation." and I
would probably win a scholarship, a grant,
the king's sword on shoulder and 14 hot
pieces of ass. -charles bukowski


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Richard Gardner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: NYC downtown photography/sun ship
Date: 12 Feb 2002 08:48:43 +0000

on 12/2/02 4:24 AM, Zorn List Digest at
[e-mail] wrote:

> It cannot be easier. The guy is me, the link is
> http://www.downtownmusic.net/.

Congratulations Peter I had no idea your archive existed.

Its a wonderful resource for people, like me, living along way from NYC.
At long last I have put a face to some of the names I keep seeing.

Are you planning any group listings as well as individual musicians?

Richard Gardner


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: NYC downtown photography/sun ship
Date: 12 Feb 2002 11:41:28 +0100

Richard Gardner a =E9crit :

> on 12/2/02 4:24 AM, Zorn List Digest at
> owner-zorn-list-digest@lists=2Exmission=2Ecom wrote:
>
> > It cannot be easier=2E The guy is me, the link is
> > http://www=2Edowntownmusic=2Enet/=2E
>
> Congratulations Peter I had no idea your archive existed=2E
>
> Its a wonderful resource for people, like me, living along way from NYC=2E
> At long last I have put a face to some of the names I keep seeing=2E

With the exception of Buckethead=2E
DY=2E


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: NYC downtown photography/sun ship
Date: 12 Feb 2002 13:30:32 +0100



Richard Gardner a =E9crit :

> on 12/2/02 10:41 AM, duncan youngerman at y-man@wanadoo=2Efr wrote:
>
> >> Its a wonderful resource for people, like me, living along way from NYC=
=2E
> >> At long last I have put a face to some of the names I keep seeing=2E
> >
> > With the exception of Buckethead=2E
> > DY=2E
>
> Yeah, but who really cares?

> RG

Buckethead's mother=2E

DY=2E



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Non-JZ: BEST OFFER: New AUTO'd Jap Tortoise CD + 7"
Date: 12 Feb 2002 08:09:54 -0500

Both BRAND NEW.  Best OFFER (US$) takes 'em!  Air Mail/Shipping is EXTRA.

# Tortoise - "Mosquito/Onions Wrapped In Rubber/Gooseneck" US 7"
  (Torsion: b17-003-7) 1993  [2nd pressing on clear vinyl of this
  early single.  In poster sleeve.  mint/mint.  Deleted.]

# Tortoise - "Millions Now Living Will Never Die" JAP CD
  (Tokuma: tkcb-70931) 1996  [Inside sleeve AUTOGRAPHED in silver
  by Bitney, McEntire, Herndon, McCombs & Pajo (not personalized).
  9 tracks; 3 bonus cuts: "Gamera", "Goriri" & "Restless Waters".
  Mint/new with papers & obi.]

Thanks for looking,


-Patrick
[e-mail]









-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Peter Gannushkin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re[2]: NYC downtown photography/sun ship
Date: 12 Feb 2002 14:26:40 +0100

Hello Richard,

Thanks everybody for replies.

RG> Are you planning any group listings as well as individual musicians?

It's sort of hard now to make better navigation, but I'll think about
it.

BTW, if you need or know somebody who needs any of these pictures for
the publications, album covers, websites or something, just let me
know and I'll send them in the better quality.

NP: Jah Wobble and Bill Laswell "Radioaxiom : A Dub Transmission" (CD), Subcode [7:36]
--
Best regards,
Peter Gannushkin
e-mail: [e-mail]
URL: http://www.downtownmusic.net/


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Alan Kayser" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Previte "Miro"
Date: 12 Feb 2002 09:09:26 -0500


Steve Smith wrote

"I'm much more absorbed at the
moment by his new Tzadik disc, which really does fully realize the Miro
pieces more than the live demo from the UK tour did."

This is really an amazing work.  For any of the nay sayers about BP's
compositional skills, re this one.  I've been trying to absorb the music
before relating it to the Miro pieces, but even without that as a reference
point it holds up as a beautiful piece.  Very unique arrangements, certainly
not within the jazz tradition.  It's going to take lots more listens to
absorb the entire thing.  It'll be interesting to see how the critics
classify this one, if they pay attention at all.

Alan E Kayser


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Gustafsson/O'Rourke/Moore
Date: 12 Feb 2002 15:21:27 +0100 (CET)

HI,

I just saw a 2001 Crazy Wisdom release by the three
guys above. Any comments? Is it worth the money
considering that my account is trembling? Will I
regret again having purchased an album with O'Rourke
on board? Am I asking too much?

Thanks in advance.

Best,

EfrΘn del Valle

_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:=20Odp:=20(My=20Recap):=20Britney,=20Glenn=20G?=
Date: 12 Feb 2002 09:25:39 EST


--part1_13f.93dfbee.299a7fe3_boundary
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In a message dated 2/11/2002 6:46:32 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> > Funny thing -- I don't enjoy listening to her, but I admire her skill and
> > professionalism in the way I give it up to Barry Manilow (and not, say,
> Neil
>
> I like the way her stuff is recorded - really liked the very close
> recording
> of vocals on 'oops, i did it again'. Well done.

We could look at just about any big-budget pop record and find many technical
merits.    They all sound great,  as they should ..... check out Bruce
Swedien's work on the latest Michael Jackson ... or better yet the work he
did on Thriller back in '82 or '83 ........

--part1_13f.93dfbee.299a7fe3_boundary
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/11/2002 6:46:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">> Funny thing -- I don't enjoy listening to her, but I admire her skill and<BR>
> professionalism in the way I give it up to Barry Manilow (and not, say,<BR>
Neil<BR>
<BR>
I like the way her stuff is recorded - really liked the very close recording<BR>
of vocals on 'oops, i did it again'. Well done.</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
We could look at just about any big-budget pop record and find many technical merits.    They all sound great,  as they should ..... check out Bruce Swedien's work on the latest Michael Jackson ... or better yet the work he did on Thriller back in '82 or '83 ........</FONT></HTML>

--part1_13f.93dfbee.299a7fe3_boundary--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Vincent Kargatis / Anne Larson" <[e-mail]>
Subject: prague?
Date: 12 Feb 2002 18:08:03 +0200

Headed to Prague this weekend - any new-musicy stuff/events I should know
about before taking off?
--
Vincent Kargatis
np: Cecil Taylor - NAILED (FMP)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kim, Pei-Yi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: -- Kung Fu Drums, Austria Recs --
Date: 12 Feb 2002 11:22:22 -0500

Happy Year of the Horse Everyone,

    There will be a six drum game-piece performance of JZ's 'Xu Feng' at
8pm on Feb 24th at Miller Theatre of Columbia University. It is part of a
week's worth of Hong Kong cinema programs presented by CU's East Asian
Institute. More info at: http://sipa.columbia.edu/eai/hkfilm2002/  Susie
Ibarra will be one of the six players, and it's FREE, too!

Now for non-Zorn content:

    I will be in Innsbruck, Austria from March 2-10, and would love some
recommendations on good live music in the area/nearby for the time I'm
there. Although Vienna is a trek, I am willing to travel and see the rest of
the country for worthy music. Any assistance in this matter is greatly
appreciated.

    Much pleasant wishes,
    Pei-Yi

NP: from a window -- Wayne Horvitz, The Four Plus One Ensemble


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: parker/eskelin on a hot august night
Date: 12 Feb 2002 16:46:24 +0000

A couple of years ago at the Internet Cafe in NYC, a duet between William
parker and Ellery Eskelin ... a hot August night, the tension was building,
people were pulling icecubes from their drinks and rubbing them on their
necks, so on and so forth.  The music was just sooooo sexy.  Then they all
went outside and had a smoke.  I was AT that gig !  For some reason i wasnt
picking up on
that vibe ..... but thats not surprising.  I also have a recording of that
gig.

i was there, too. anything but sexy for me (tho the music was great). for us
uptowners, it was a different sort of night. i left home as the brown-out
began, unwilling to sit home in the dark with no electricity (and not
realizing the subways would be stopped above 125th street). it was so hot in
the internet, but there was nowhere else to escape it.

on the way home, the subway stopped at 125th and i had to take a bus to
187th, except the driver decided to stop at 168th. the whole busload of
seriously unnerved people started yelling at him until he agreed to go the
rest of the way. i got off the bus at my stop, only to realize there were no
lights anywhere -- only police with flashlights on the street, and that only
on broadway. it's not a bad neighborhood, but i was actually scared to walk
the few blocks to my building. i stood in the middle of the street so that
cars would have to slow down (since there was no way to see what car was a
cab), and when one finally came i gave him $6 to drive me 3 blocks (nobody
was picking up fares). when i finally got home, of course, there was no way
to see my way around the apt., much less plug in an electric fan.
helicopters circled all night, shining spotlights down on us. many people
slept outside. it was one of the most intense nights i've had in new york.

and, jody, i would seriously love a copy of that tape.

kurt

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: (My Recap): Britney, Glenn Gould, Bj
Date: 12 Feb 2002 10:05:18 -0800

> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--MS_Mac_OE_3096353118_28119_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

on 2/12/02 6:25 AM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

We could look at just about any big-budget pop record and find many
technical merits.    They all sound great,  as they should ..... check out
Bruce Swedien's work on the latest Michael Jackson ... or better yet the
work he did on Thriller back in '82 or '83 ........

well, not just the technical in MJ's case.  There'a a lot of invention
throughout his recorded output.

sh

--MS_Mac_OE_3096353118_28119_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: Odp: (My Recap): Britney, Glenn Gould, Bj?rk</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
on 2/12/02 6:25 AM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2">We could look at just about any big-budget pop r=
ecord and find many technical merits.    They all sound great=
,  as they should ..... check out Bruce Swedien's work on the latest Mi=
chael Jackson ... or better yet the work he did on Thriller back in '82 or '=
83 ........</FONT> <BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
well, not just the technical in MJ's case.  There'a a lot of invention=
 throughout his recorded output.<BR>
<BR>
sh
</BODY>
</HTML>


--MS_Mac_OE_3096353118_28119_MIME_Part--


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Austria Recs --
Date: 12 Feb 2002 19:54:45 +0100

Perhaps it is wise to contact the guys at Durian. It is a young and
extremely cool initiative w/a record company etc. They are based in Vienna,
but they might know about any good stuff happening in Austria. I am sure
there will be an email address you can find at www.durian.at

Their cd's include electro acoustic improv in the Erstwhile vein, modern
classical chamber and orchestral works with theatrical influences. Perhaps
one of their artists is doing something...

Good Luck, and have great fun,
Remco Takken

>
> I will be in Innsbruck, Austria from March 2-10, and would love some
> recommendations on good live music in the area/nearby for the time I'm
> there. Although Vienna is a trek, I am willing to travel and see the rest
of
> the country for worthy music. Any assistance in this matter is greatly
> appreciated.
>
> Much pleasant wishes,
> Pei-Yi
>
> NP: from a window -- Wayne Horvitz, The Four Plus One Ensemble
>
>
> -
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mark Saleski <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers/ BRITNEY/ JAZZIZ
Date: 12 Feb 2002 14:45:49 -0500


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Mathew Ross Davis:


>actually i think it's the sign of a great artist if he or she can cross over
>well and actually have a "serious" recording gain the same kind of respect and
>admiration that the "pop" one does. it probably depends heavily on the styles
>in question.

no doubt. when Kiss put out The Elder it was no help at all!

;-)

mark

--
Mark Saleski - [e-mail] | http://www.foliage.com/~marks
"Music is spiritual. The music business is not." - Van Morrison


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<html>
<head>
</head>
<body>
<br>
Mathew Ross Davis:<br>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
>actually i think it's the sign of a great artist if he or she can cross over
>well and actually have a "serious" recording gain the same kind of respect and
>admiration that the "pop" one does. it probably depends heavily on the styles
>in question.</pre>
no doubt. when Kiss put out The Elder it was no help at all!<br>
<br>
;-)<br>
<br>
mark
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="$mailwrapcol">--
Mark Saleski - <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</a> | <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.foliage.com/~marks">http://www.foliage.com/~marks</a>
"Music is spiritual. The music business is not." - Van Morrison</pre>
</body>
</html>

--------------050103040005060301040104--


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: parker/eskelin on a hot august night
Date: 12 Feb 2002 17:05:11 -0500

on 02.02.12 11:46 AM, Kurt Gottschalk at [e-mail] wrote:

> A couple of years ago at the Internet Cafe in NYC, a duet between William
> parker and Ellery Eskelin ... a hot August night, the tension was building,

> and, jody, i would seriously love a copy of that tape.
>
> kurt

Hey, get in line bucko..

RL
RL
----------
[  All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k  ]

Sessionographies :
CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.

Discographies :
COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN.

Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag;
ETC.,
----------
*** THINGS 4 SALE ***  [Updated: 01.12.01]
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/ChipsInCashing.html




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: David Slusser <[e-mail]>
Subject: Rubber City
Date: 12 Feb 2002 15:55:01 -0800

Pardon the commercial nature of this post, but as mentioned a few weeks
ago in regard to queries about Ralph Carney, the new Rubber City CD is
now available at cdbaby.com., with full bore Ralph on every track, along
with Zorn protege David Slusser (that's me).
The actual page is:

http://cdbaby.com/cd/slusser?baby=daee2ee062f3d1182a1aa8290fe7bcca

I should have the Breath Ears label site up in a few weeks at
breathears.com.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Langley School Music Project
Date: 12 Feb 2002 21:08:42 EST


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"This is beauty. This is truth. This is music that touches the heart in a way
no other music ever has, or ever could." --John.Zorn

<A HREF="http://www.keyofz.com/keyofz/langley/">http://www.keyofz.com/keyofz/langley/</A>


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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#990099" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Verdana" LANG="0">"This is beauty. This is truth. This is music that touches the heart in a way no other music ever has, or ever could." <B>--John</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#ffffff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Verdana" LANG="0"></B>.</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#990099" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Verdana" LANG="0"><B>Zorn</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Verdana" LANG="0"></B><BR>
 <BR>
<B><A HREF="http://www.keyofz.com/keyofz/langley/">http://www.keyofz.com/keyofz/langley/</A></B></B><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_185.3806c5e.299b24aa_boundary--

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Langley School Music Project
Date: 12 Feb 2002 21:13:18 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C1B40A.17BB2D60
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    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I love the record.....it's charming.

amdrew

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    charset="iso-8859-1"
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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4807.2300" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I love the record.....it's charming.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>amdrew</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matt Teichman <[e-mail]>
Subject: korean pop
Date: 12 Feb 2002 21:32:04 -0500

Anyone know of a good online site for locating CDs by those melodramatic
sickly-sweet Korean crooners (such as Ahn Jae Wook, Seo Ji Won, or Kim Jung
Min)?

I realize this subject is probably taboo for such a sophisticated list
:)  Hey, you never know, they may collaborate with Zorn one day...


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Langley and Song in the Key of Z
Date: 12 Feb 2002 22:10:16 EST


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I highly recommend both these gems.  I refuse to trivialize there merit with
a lengthy review, summary, and or analysis.  But I'd be willing to refund
whom ever found either of these a waste of their money.  And if anyone know
of cheap places to stay and good shows to see in NY from Feb 14-18 please
e-mail me privately.


Aaron

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"><FONT  SIZE=2>I highly recommend both these gems.  I refuse to trivialize there merit with a lengthy review, summary, and or analysis.  But I'd be willing to refund whom ever found either of these a waste of their money.  And if anyone know of cheap places to stay and good shows to see in NY from Feb 14-18 please e-mail me privately.
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>Aaron </FONT></HTML>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Michael Berman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: miami hot spots
Date: 12 Feb 2002 23:27:36 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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can anyone recommend some good hot spots in miami beach specifically or =
miami in general for Feb 14-17 and is there any online guide to live =
music?

if appropriate, email privately.  thanks all.

mike

np: 3 mustaphas 3 - shopping


Michael Berman
Berman Studios
www.his.com/mberman
202.737.6836

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<HTML><HEAD>
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http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2614.3401" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>can anyone recommend some good hot spots in miami beach =
specifically or=20
miami in general for Feb 14-17 and is there any online guide to live=20
music?</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>if appropriate, email privately.  thanks all.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>mike</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>np: 3 mustaphas 3 - shopping</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Michael Berman<BR>Berman Studios<BR><A=20
href=3D"http://www.his.com/mberman">www.his.com/mberman</A><BR>202.737.68=
36</DIV></BODY></HTML>

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Britney/"Have a Little Faith"/Chet Baker
Date: 12 Feb 2002 22:13:01 -0600



Britney Spears' ubiquity on the charts and in television commercials has
nothing to do with superior talent, showmanship or even looks.  (She was as
tawdry-dowdy and coarse of feature as a 35-year-old ex-stripper when I saw
her opening for 'N Sync before her first album came out, and though her
personal trainers have done a great job, and she cleans up all blond and
toothy, you could certainly find any number of better-looking teenage
girls.)  I don't think she dances so much as strikes rapid poses -- it's a
lot more impressive in a video than if you see her live, as with Paula
Abdul.  A lot of the "dancing" is done by editors and cameramen.

Britney's gift is that she is the perfect embodiment of utter vacuity. An
empty vessel to be filled by her handlers, her producers, her directors,
the marketing people at Pepsi.... A friend just had to interview her for a
story on her big movie debut, and he said it was extremely weird talking to
someone who had no actual opinions on anything, and made no utterance that
wasn't completely bland and totally rehearsed.  Not to mention, she had
more security than the president.

The celebrity columnist at my old paper, the Orlando Sentinel, had to deal
w/ the teen pop impresarios and their minions regularly. She couldn't
resist asking one of the few humans in the Backstreet Boys organization if
those were really the most talented, cutest boys they could find, and he
said what really matters is a willingness to "do what it takes."

Of all the little teen queens, the only one who really shows any promise is
Mandy Moore, who actually has a voice, and at least a modicum of taste, and
is a very pretty kid.  If Britney dyed her hair brown, her career would be
over.

OK, end of rant.  I had to deal w/ the likes of Britney so much working for
a daily, it's just plain dangerous to get me started on the subject.

The Frisell version of "Have a Little Faith" is certainly one of the
loveliest choices for wedding music I can think of.  And it'll still sound
good at your 50th anniversary celebration.


>
>Granted, this is a generalization, but in my experience=8A the ladies
>*love* Chet Baker.
>
>Jon M.
>


Eeeyew.  That's as hokey as the time a teaching assistant tried to seduce
me with the soundtrack to "A Man and a Woman."  I dropped the course.

I would say one of the most seductive live bands is the Iguanas, from here
in New Orleans.  I've seen some mighty steamy behavior on the dancefloor at
Iguanas shows, and not necessarily among people who arrived together.

Happy Mardi Gras (all two hours left of it here in Central Standard Time),

Parry

PS  Despite the holiday, I will not make suggestions for the best music to
pleasure yourself by.  However, the best song about that topic is Fleetwood
Mac's "Rattlesnake Shake."






-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: thanks to rob (non-zc)
Date: 12 Feb 2002 23:27:40 EST

sorry for the public thing...  can't find rob pleshar's email in my box...

rob just wanted to thank you - the articles arrived today in the mail and i'm so excited!

mad props to rob pleshar!

love,
  k8.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Britney/"Have a Little Faith"/Chet Baker
Date: 13 Feb 2002 01:06:21 EST

In a message dated Tue, 12 Feb 2002 11:19:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:

> Of all the little teen queens, the only one who really shows any promise is
> Mandy Moore, who actually has a voice, and at least a modicum of taste, and
> is a very pretty kid.  If Britney dyed her hair brown, her career would be
> over.

In my somewhat humble opinion, newcomer Shakira can out-sing all of them.  And with the new dyed doo, she's liable to make a splash of her own soon.

This young crossover Latina brigade is a force to be reckoned with in the near future, you can bet...

--
=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Britney/"Have a Little Faith"/Chet Baker
Date: 12 Feb 2002 22:24:11 -0800

on 2/12/02 10:06 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

> This young crossover Latina brigade is a force to be reckoned with in the near
> future, you can bet...
>
> --
They are.  And the production teams behind 'em are no joke, either.  Nice to
hear real horns and timbales on pop records again.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Britney/"Have a Little Faith"/Chet Baker
Date: 13 Feb 2002 04:04:04 EST

In a message dated 2/13/02 1:21:14 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< on 2/12/02 10:06 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

 > This young crossover Latina brigade is a force to be reckoned with in the
near
 > future, you can bet...
 >
 > --
 They are.  And the production teams behind 'em are no joke, either.  Nice to
 hear real horns and timbales on pop records again. >>

Amen to that.  Even though the old guard snidely refers to it as "Salsa
Monga", it's likely the most powerful element to hit the Popular Music scene
since Punk/New Wave.  Salsa is a hellava lot more enjoyable to dance to than
this disco thing ever was, I do know that...

--
=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: FIMAV 2002
Date: 13 Feb 2002 09:21:14 -0500

>Keith Tippett with Paul Dunmall, Elton Dean, Jim Dvorak, Mark Charig,
Paul
>Rutherford, Maggie Nichols, Louis Moholo; Fred Frith/Joan Jeanrenaud;
Peggy
>Lee/Marilyn Lerner; Lee Ranaldo/William Hooker; Hamid Drake/Gerry
>Hemingway; Aki Takase/Konrad Bauer; Peter Kowald/William Parker; Alan
>Silva, Eugene Chadbourne/Rene Lussier; Cecil Taylor/Bill Dixon/Tony
Oxley;
>Bob Ostertag; Merzbow.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: William Crump <[e-mail]>
Subject: an announcement
Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:18:04 -0800 (PST)

I just wanted to announce to the Zornlist and the rest
of the world that I am taking my name OUT of the
running for the Tampa Bay Buccaneers head coaching
job.

William Crump

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Branford goes indie... somebody call David S. Ware
Date: 13 Feb 2002 15:25:18 -0500

Branford Marsalis is launching his own label, which will also do some
educational outreach work, using Boston critic Bob Blumenthal.

http://www.boston.com/dailyglobe2/044/living/Marsalis_to_launch_own_label_locally+.shtml




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Branford goes indie... somebody call David S. Ware
Date: 13 Feb 2002 12:48:36 -0800

on 2/13/02 12:25 PM, James Hale at [e-mail] wrote:

> Branford Marsalis is launching his own label, which will also do some
> educational outreach work, using Boston critic Bob Blumenthal.
>
Dear Branford --
Rounder is not neccessarily your best option.  Or, for that matter, ever a
good one, unless you get that special Rounder/Uni distribution.

sh


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 13 Feb 2002 14:07:12 -0500

Wild to see Shakira referenced here, and positively, to boot.

If I say that her English-language 'Laundry Service' just can't hold a candle to her previous Spanish-language releases, do I sound like an elitist and a curmudgeon? Is it worse if I admit that I liked her much better as a brunette (and in fact, she confessed in a recent issue of Blender that since she's gone blonde, kids have come up to her asking for autographs, thinking she's Britney)?

I'm no old-timer - I only got hip to her 'Donde Estan Los Ladrones' a little over a year ago. For me, it's a great blend of pop grooves and Alanis-bitten vocal inflections, and the single "Ojos Asi" could only have come from a woman born half-Lebanese, half-Colombian. Fucking brilliant - and only a shadow of itself in the English translation on 'Laundry Service.'

She's simply a better singer in her native tongue - compare the English and Spanish takes on "Whenever, Wherever" on the new disc and see what I mean. Some of the English lyrics are pretty amusing, though ("Lucky that my breasts are small and humble / So you don't mistake them for mountains"...)

But best of all, ironically, is her 'MTV Unplugged' disc, where she and her colleagues mess around with the arrangements, adding more traditional Latin elements (love the mariachi invasion...).

Don't know much about a Latina invasion (and I'm certainly not going to invite Christina Aguilera into my life), but Sharkira makes me weeeaaakk in the knees.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Sigh, "Taste Defeat," 'Scorn Defeat' (Psychic Scream)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Robert Pleshar <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 13 Feb 2002 16:46:53 -0600

As long as we are in confessional mode here, I must admit that I too dig
Shakira, especially her Spanish language songs and also as a brunette. I'll
have to look for the Unplugged disc. I really enjoy the mixture of latin,
middle eastern and rockish sounds. Also, some of her lyrics in Spanish are
totally great (or maybe because my Spanish is incredibly bad, they just seem a
lot better). There's a line or two about brains that I like and another about
how arguments end and are left sort of unresolved (as best I can tell).

I was just discussing with someone recently that I am having a hard time
finding any "indie rock" being made nowadays that is interesting, but that some
of the totally mainstream (especially dancier) music has some interesting
things going on. Like Outkast or even Pink is more interesting to listen to
than most guitar bands I hear lately.

Rob

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Edgar=20Lee?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Toy bands
Date: 14 Feb 2002 10:37:18 +1100 (EST)

I have a received a proposal for a new release on my
record label Dr Jims. It is for a CD of avant jazz
played with conventional instruments as well as toy
instruments. Could anyone please advise me of some
good examples of jazz releases played with this
instrumentation.

Thanks
Edgar
NP Candlesnuffer

http://greetings.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Greetings
- Send your Valentines love online.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Odp:_Odp:_=28My_Recap=29:_Britney=2C_Glenn_Gould=2C_Bj=F6rk?=
Date: 14 Feb 2002 01:51:31 +0100

>We could look at just about any big-budget pop record and find many
technical merits.    They all sound great,  as they should ..... check out
Bruce Swedien's
>work on the latest Michael Jackson ... or better yet the work he did on
Thriller back in '82 or '83 ........


I do not just mean that it's welll recorded from a technical point of view-
which is evident - but that i like thre idea of what the vocals could sound.
very close, compressed, funny eq.
Marcin


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Toy bands
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:45:53 -0500

on 02.02.13 6:37 PM, Edgar Lee at [e-mail] wrote:

> I have a received a proposal for a new release on my
> record label Dr Jims. It is for a CD of avant jazz
> played with conventional instruments as well as toy
> instruments. Could anyone please advise me of some
> good examples of jazz releases played with this
> instrumentation.

There's a Marilyn Crispell release, a John Cage disc, with a few pieces for
toy pianos...

RL
----------
[  All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k  ]

Sessionographies :
CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.

Discographies :
COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN.

Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag;
ETC.,
----------
*** THINGS 4 SALE ***  [Updated: 01.12.01]
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/ChipsInCashing.html




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Fwd: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 13 Feb 2002 21:40:10 EST


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In a message dated 2/13/02 4:47:50 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<<  Like Outkast or even Pink is more interesting to listen to

than most guitar bands I hear lately. >>

I've wondered why Outkast doesn't come up more often when the list starts
talking hip-hop.   Stankonia has been in my cd changer for a month now--few
cd's spend that long in there--and it's still interesting.  It took me a
while to digest some of the more intense grooves (ie. ? and snappin' and
trappin'), but other tracks kept me listening to the album such as Ms.
Jackson and Gasoline Dreams.  I think Outkast are at their best when they
blend grooves--like salsa and funk on Humble Mumble or even drum and bass and
hip hop on B.O.B.--which they do seamlessly.
As for Pink, I've yet to get into her (not literally of course--that only
happens in my dreams), but i have heard alot of positive reactions to her
from people who i wouldn't normally expect it.
-A.R.

now listening to the neighbors doing it
now reading now reading

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As long as we are in confessional mode here, I must admit that I too dig
Shakira, especially her Spanish language songs and also as a brunette. I'll
have to look for the Unplugged disc. I really enjoy the mixture of latin,
middle eastern and rockish sounds. Also, some of her lyrics in Spanish are
totally great (or maybe because my Spanish is incredibly bad, they just seem a
lot better). There's a line or two about brains that I like and another about
how arguments end and are left sort of unresolved (as best I can tell).

I was just discussing with someone recently that I am having a hard time
finding any "indie rock" being made nowadays that is interesting, but that some
of the totally mainstream (especially dancier) music has some interesting
things going on. Like Outkast or even Pink is more interesting to listen to
than most guitar bands I hear lately.

Rob

-


--part1_35.222105b3.299c7d8a_boundary--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "nors5379" <[e-mail]>
Subject: toy instrumentation
Date: 14 Feb 2002 03:24:59 GMT

though not necessarily a jazz group; The Residents EP
"Buster & Glen" was recorded completely with instruments
found at toy stores. really quite an interesting four or
five songs.
-darryl.
Darryl Norsen
db.etree.org/shortround
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

if I were an easy bright boy I think
I would say something like, "cleaning
the fingernails with a dirty fingernail
file is a form of masterbation." and I
would probably win a scholarship, a grant,
the king's sword on shoulder and 14 hot
pieces of ass. -charles bukowski


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: toy bands/Latin pop
Date: 13 Feb 2002 22:22:43 -0600

Well, not a band, only a toy solo artist, but I love the Margaret Leng Tan
album I have and she was one of the most engaging performers I ever saw,
elegantly perched on her toy piano bench and getting such beautiful music
out of something intended for childish pounding.....

Haven't heard Shakira, unless it was back in Orlando on the salsa station
that never backannounces. Will have to check her out.

>Amen to that.  Even though the old guard snidely refers to it as "Salsa
>Monga", it's likely the most powerful element to hit the Popular Music scene
>since Punk/New Wave.  Salsa is a hellava lot more enjoyable to dance to than
>this disco thing ever was, I do know that...

I have a hard time resisting anything w/ a salsa flavor, except there was
that one young female singer who did the Alanis hiccuping thing, which
drove me nuts. I actually got a kick out of Ricky Martin's big album --
he's not much of a singer, and the songs were little more than jingles, but
the production was a riot, everything plus the kitchen sink in there, and
plenty danceable.  Except for the excruciating ballads.  That's the bad
thing w/ Latin pop, cheesy ballad syndrome.  Please, please make Marc
Anthony stop recording ballads.

Parry



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: toy bands/Latin pop
Date: 13 Feb 2002 23:46:02 -0500

There was an all-toy band back in the '80s called Pianosaurus, but I never
heard 'em.

God help me, but I kind of like the new Enrique Iglesias ballad.

(I imagine a lot of Zornlisters' jaws collectively hit their keyboards just
now...)

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Polwechsel, "Not Forgetting the Forgetting," 'Polwechsel 3' (Durian)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: toy bands/Latin pop
Date: 13 Feb 2002 20:52:56 -0800

on 2/13/02 8:46 PM, Steve Smith at [e-mail] wrote:

> God help me, but I kind of like the new Enrique Iglesias ballad.

God help me, the only thing I didn't like about "Livin' La Vida Loca" was
the lyric.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: toy bands/Latin pop
Date: 14 Feb 2002 00:02:32 -0500

The only thing I didn't like about "Livin' La Vida Loca" was my girlfriend's
unholy interest in Ricky's swivel. Now, Marc Anthony's "I Need To Know"...
THOSE were some excruciating lyrics.

"Baby I would climb the Andes solely / To count the freckles on your
body." - Shakira

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Polwechsel, "Mendota Stoppages," 'Polwechsel 3' (Durian)
(And BTW, Skip, thanks... the care package just arrived.)

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of skip heller
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2002 11:53 PM

on 2/13/02 8:46 PM, Steve Smith at [e-mail] wrote:

> God help me, but I kind of like the new Enrique Iglesias ballad.

God help me, the only thing I didn't like about "Livin' La Vida Loca" was
the lyric.

skip h


-


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lang Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: toy bands/Latin pop
Date: 14 Feb 2002 00:08:13 -0500

>There was an all-toy band back in the '80s called Pianosaurus, but I never
>heard 'em.

They were actually a bit more interesting than I expected, using the
instruments as much for the way they sounded than for pure novelty value.
I interviewed them & remember them being quite nice (if that matters).

Lang



Adventures In Sound
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm

Outsider Music Mailing List
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm

Documentary Sound
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm

Full Alert Film Review
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Another Great One Gone
Date: 14 Feb 2002 00:26:08 EST

 <A HREF="aol://4344:3167.waylon.21073436.698111916"> AOL News: Country Great
Waylon Jennings Dies at 64</A>

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Another Great One Gone
Date: 14 Feb 2002 00:26:10 -0500

64?  64!?!?!

Damn, that's depressing. Thank God Willie's still making some of the best
music of his career.

Thanks for passing this along, though.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - silence...

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 12:26 AM
[e-mail]


 <A HREF="aol://4344:3167.waylon.21073436.698111916"> AOL News: Country
Great
Waylon Jennings Dies at 64</A>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Gabriel Drummer <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Another Great One Gone
Date: 13 Feb 2002 21:36:55 -0800 (PST)

     Nick Brignola passed away recently too. Amazing
baritonist.


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: and another one bites the dust.  (was Re: Another Great One Gone)
Date: 14 Feb 2002 00:38:48 EST

shit, does this mean i have to set up a Waylon Jennings endcap at the record
store at which i work tomorrow?  <grumbles>

k8.


-----
[ .n o t h i n g  i s  w h a t  i s  s a i d. ]

.k a t e  p e t e r s o n.
.c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r.
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>
<A HREF="http://www.icefoundation.org">http://www.icefoundation.org</A>
(roundtable)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Another Great One Gone
Date: 13 Feb 2002 22:22:40 -0800

on 2/13/02 9:26 PM, Steve Smith at [e-mail] wrote:

>
> Damn, that's depressing. Thank God Willie's still making some of the best
> music of his career.
>
> Thanks for passing this along, though.

He was fantastic.  I still remember hearing him when I was about 12 and just
being completely amazed by "Lonesome, Ornery, and Mean".

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Case" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 14 Feb 2002 16:58:24 +1030

>As for Pink, I've yet to get into her (not literally of course--that only
>happens in my dreams), but i have heard alot of positive reactions to her
>from people who i wouldn't normally expect it.
>- -A.R.

I just got the PINK disc for review, and was surprise., it is actaully
listenable, but saying this I wont be running to a record shop for more.

Case
Australia

NP Gilli Moon (Which is utter shite)


-



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From: Corey Marc Fogel <[e-mail]>
Subject: cage links
Date: 14 Feb 2002 01:45:46 -0700 (MST)


For those of you in Phoenix (yeah right), the Links percussion+ ensemble, aka
Skumbaag, from Albequerque are playing an [almost] all John Cage show at
Paradise Valley Community College...including 3rd Construction...Credo In
Us...other good stuff, like Stuart Smith's Blue Too for drum set.

This Saturday at 7:30 pm in the eastmost part of the campus, in the black box
theater. 32nd St. and Union Hills. ok?? ok.



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: toy bands/Latin pop
Date: 14 Feb 2002 04:09:00 -0500

> on 2/13/02 8:46 PM, Steve Smith at [e-mail] wrote:
>
>> God help me, but I kind of like the new Enrique Iglesias ballad.
>
> God help me, the only thing I didn't like about "Livin' La Vida Loca" was
> the lyric.
>
> skip h

There are an awful lot of deeply horrifying confessionals peppering this
list lately. I think I'm going to be... ulp, unfffff, HACK! excuse me...
RL
----------
[  All of the below and much more at: http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k  ]

Sessionographies :
CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP; D.S. WARE.

Discographies :
COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL; WORKMAN.

Samuel Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag;
ETC.,
----------
*** THINGS 4 SALE ***  [Updated: 01.12.01]
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k/ChipsInCashing.html




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: FIMAV 2002
Date: 14 Feb 2002 06:10:17 -0500

on 02.02.13 9:21 AM, James Hale at [e-mail] wrote:

>> Keith Tippett with Paul Dunmall, Elton Dean, Jim Dvorak, Mark Charig,
> Paul
>> Rutherford, Maggie Nichols, Louis Moholo; Fred Frith/Joan Jeanrenaud;
> Peggy
>> Lee/Marilyn Lerner; Lee Ranaldo/William Hooker; Hamid Drake/Gerry
>> Hemingway; Aki Takase/Konrad Bauer; Peter Kowald/William Parker; Alan
>> Silva, Eugene Chadbourne/Rene Lussier; Cecil Taylor/Bill Dixon/Tony
> Oxley;
>> Bob Ostertag; Merzbow.
>
>
> -

Any details of this anywhere yet?
RL
----------
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP;
D.S. WARE; COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL;
WORKMAN; Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag...


-



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From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Toy instruments
Date: 14 Feb 2002 12:26:01 +0100

A French composer by the name of PASCAL COMELADE has been specializing
for the past 15 years or so in compositions and albums exclusively done
with toy instruments. Surely you can find out more from internet.

Best,
DY.


-



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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Subject: Langley and Song in the Key of Z
Date: 14 Feb 2002 06:31:00 EST

I will only add that I find both of these discs very soothing. Song's in the Key of Z,  both disc and book are a nice gift to give someone. Also I would suggest listening to this one first, then the Schools disc. Langley gives you a warm feeling inside and will help settle you down.

Andrew
NP:Jean Derome - Plinc! Plonc!

Toy bands...My favorites are Klimperei and Pascal Comelade. Someone also turned me on to a band called Toychestra from California.

-



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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Nick=20Cain?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: toy instruments
Date: 14 Feb 2002 12:05:18 +0000 (GMT)

One of the most devoted proponents of the use of toy
instruments - in the improv setting at least - has
been Steve Beresford. See especially the Three and
Four Pullovers CD [Emanem 4038], and perhaps also the
Beresford / Honsinger / Toop / Kondo 'Double
Indemnity' CD [Atavistic/UMS]. There are any number of
Art Ensemble of Chicago records which feature a range
of instrumentats that, in context, could be considered
as "toys": kazoo, whistles, dinner chimes, duck calls,
bike horns, etc.

=====
www.info.net.nz/opprobrium

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: FIMAV 2002
Date: 14 Feb 2002 08:21:52 -0500

I was told that it would be up at the FIMAV site yesterday, but it wasn't.

James

Rick Lopez wrote:

> on 02.02.13 9:21 AM, James Hale at [e-mail] wrote:
>
> >> Keith Tippett with Paul Dunmall, Elton Dean, Jim Dvorak, Mark Charig,
> > Paul
> >> Rutherford, Maggie Nichols, Louis Moholo; Fred Frith/Joan Jeanrenaud;
> > Peggy
> >> Lee/Marilyn Lerner; Lee Ranaldo/William Hooker; Hamid Drake/Gerry
> >> Hemingway; Aki Takase/Konrad Bauer; Peter Kowald/William Parker; Alan
> >> Silva, Eugene Chadbourne/Rene Lussier; Cecil Taylor/Bill Dixon/Tony
> > Oxley;
> >> Bob Ostertag; Merzbow.
> >
> >
> > -
>
> Any details of this anywhere yet?
> RL
> ----------
> http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP;
> D.S. WARE; COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL;
> WORKMAN; Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
> HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag...
>
> -


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mark Saleski <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 14 Feb 2002 08:34:35 -0500

>As for Pink, I've yet to get into her (not literally of course--that only
>happens in my dreams), but i have heard alot of positive reactions to her
>from people who i wouldn't normally expect it.

i've gotta admit that Missundastood by Pink was my guilty pleasure for
last year. i think i saw her doing that lady marmalade remake on some
awards show...and realized that she actually has a voice...and then i
saw her do Get The Party Started on trl...and it was a blast

christ, i just admitted to watching trl.....

mark
(....inserting Improvisation - Derek Baily into cdrom drive to erase
feelings of guilt & shame)

--
Mark Saleski - [e-mail] | http://www.foliage.com/~marks
"Music is spiritual. The music business is not." - Van Morrison



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Subject: Langley and Song in the Key of Z
Date: 14 Feb 2002 10:19:24 -0500

> I will only add that I find both of these discs very soothing. >Song's in the Key of Z,  both disc and book are a nice gift to

The Key of Z CD has been out of print since the label went under.  You can probably still find a few copies somewhere but Irwin has plans to reissue it himself sometime in the near future.

And in case anybody's interested in more about these topics I run an Outsider Music mailing list at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/outsidermusic/

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matthew Moffett <[e-mail]>
Subject: Sun Ra bio recs?
Date: 14 Feb 2002 10:32:20 -0500

I've found _Space is the Place_, but I'm just curious if other good
biographies exist on Sun Ra, or if this is really the definitive one.
For point of reference, I'm writing a short story/novella that will
feature Sun Ra as a major-minor character and am looking for stories,
quotes, etc that will really convey his personality alongside his
musical ideas.


Thanks in advance,
Matt

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sun Ra bio recs?
Date: 14 Feb 2002 10:33:57 -0500

John Szwed's book is meticulously researched.
I haven't seen any better.

James

Matthew Moffett wrote:

> I've found _Space is the Place_, but I'm just curious if other good
> biographies exist on Sun Ra, or if this is really the definitive one.
> For point of reference, I'm writing a short story/novella that will
> feature Sun Ra as a major-minor character and am looking for stories,
> quotes, etc that will really convey his personality alongside his
> musical ideas.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Matt
>
> -


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Sun Ra bio recs?
Date: 14 Feb 2002 10:45:02 EST


In a message dated 02.14.02 10.33.03, [e-mail] writes:

>John Szwed's book is meticulously researched.
>I haven't seen any better.


i second this (e)motion.

hey all... i finally heard that naked city disc last night.  rawk.

(oh my god, i just admitted to having not heard a john zorn project...
<duck>).

i was a little creeped out that the kid i work with who is like a 19 year old
industrial freak (but very cool) was the one who put it on, it just didn't
seem like something he would dig.  but i was pleasantly surprised.  i'm
getting more and more pleasantly surprised with people my age and younger,
lately...  thanks, us!

love,
  k8.

p.s. - happy VD to everyone...



-----
[ .n o t h i n g  i s  w h a t  i s  s a i d. ]

.k a t e  p e t e r s o n.
.c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r.
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>
<A HREF="http://www.icefoundation.org">http://www.icefoundation.org</A>
(roundtable)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Toy bands
Date: 14 Feb 2002 18:37:34 +0100

toy instruments
Could anyone please advise me of some
> good examples of jazz releases played with this
> instrumentation.


Hi,
I witnessed a drum'n'piano'n'electronics'n'toys concert in Amsterdam. Some
longer improvisations froma that show were eventually released as B& B: Han
Bennink & Steve Beresford in Edam, recorded and released in 2000, either on
the Dutch ICP label or BVHaast, in any way both undoubtedly available
through Cadence.

Beresford did more improv with toys, but I am not sure which recordings,
they were mostly on the 'NATO' label from France, from the eighties, but
hard to find these days.

I would have to look up the name of a female performer who solely plays with
toy instruments, and does some vocalizing and poetry over it. Anna homler is
her name, she did the best concert in this vein, that I ever witnessed. I
have no clue if she has cd's out there.

Then, if you ask a more specific roland Kirk question on the list, someone
might remember on which album Roland Kirk played saxophone against a little
children's music machine. It was on one of those big (Mercury Records?) box
sets from ten years ago.

At this moment, a rather famous Austrian composer, HK Gruber, performs on a
children's saxophone. The name of his piece escapes me at the moment, but
Gruber plays it himself, before a symphony orchestra. It was broadcasted
last sunday on vpro television in holland, so a quick search on the net will
help you out on that one. His cd of thie particular piece he is touring
with, is sold out, but might still be available by mailorder somewhere.

Like Gruber, British composer David Bedford did a piece consisting of girls
voices and 'Whirlies (serrated plastic pipes that you twirl atround your
head). It was originally on a now hard to find Dandelion cd, and is still
available on a beautifully remastered cd 'Nurses song with Elephants' on
Voiceprint.

One of Karlheinz Stockhausen's later piano pieces (Klavierstuecke) has the
pianoplayer draw a cute little wire bomb, don't know the right english word
for this thing. At some bored offices, it is made on the door, and goes off
as soon as aperson comes in opening it. I believe it was piece number
eleven, also part of the Lucifer Opera from 'Light' by Stockhausen.

Dutch guitar player Jacques Palinckx uses children's microphones for cheap
reverb on stage. Palinckx takes a very perverse twist by also using dildo's
and vibrators, mostly in the same solo. Ofcourse, it is hard to point out
precisely, where on his records he does exactly this little trick, but weird
guitar playing is all over his cd output (perhaps also available through
Cadence)...

Regards, Remco Takken


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Scott Handley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Subject: Langley and Song in the Key of Z
Date: 14 Feb 2002 09:42:02 -0800 (PST)

--- [e-mail] wrote:
> The Key of Z CD has been out of print since the
> label went under.  You can probably still find a few
> copies somewhere but Irwin has plans to reissue it
> himself sometime in the near future.

Hope this hasn't been mentioned already, but I think
the disc is back in print:
http://www.bar-none.com/bios/langley.htm

It generated a bit of buzz late last year, I think;
MOJO's new issue, with Brian Wilson on the cover, has
a 2-page spread on it.

-----s

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: willie
Date: 14 Feb 2002 17:54:10 +0000

really, steve? willie's making the best music of his career? i'm not about
to give him an ever-so-trendy trashing ("I Liked Him Back When"), but "milk
cow blues" suckd and the latest calvacade of stars hardly looks more
impressive. i'd hate to think that willie's being duped into that music
industry maxim (he's always been so much smarter than that) that old folks
can't make their own records and need back-up, disguised as tribute (read:
john lee hooker).

i did get a sampler off the (internet-only, i believe) "rainbow connection",
which was sandwiched by the above two, and it seemed good, but nothing new.
(yes, willie singing kermit might not have been done before, but it doesn't
resonate as much of much.)

willie's best stuff? the classics i love of course, but 'spirit' and
'teatro' are the shit. a few years ago, after a big break-up, i used to cry
myself to sleep every night listening to "i'm not trying to forget you
anymore." really.

and that's not under the embarassing latin pop confession category. my
penchant for the remake of 'mambo #5' is that.

but don't tell anyone.

i love each and every one of you with all my heart. happy valentine's day,
dearests.

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: willie
Date: 14 Feb 2002 10:18:56 -0800

on 2/14/02 9:54 AM, Kurt Gottschalk at [e-mail] wrote:

> really, steve? willie's making the best music of his career? i'm not about
> to give him an ever-so-trendy trashing ("I Liked Him Back When"), but "milk
> cow blues" suckd and the latest calvacade of stars hardly looks more
> impressive. i'd hate to think that willie's being duped into that music
> industry maxim (he's always been so much smarter than that) that old folks
> can't make their own records and need back-up, disguised as tribute (read:
> john lee hooker).

Actually, Willie has had a problem ever since dueting -- at his own
instigation, I might add -- with Julio.  And his duet with Ray Charles
sucked royally as well.

> i did get a sampler off the (internet-only, i believe) "rainbow connection",
> which was sandwiched by the above two, and it seemed good, but nothing new.
> (yes, willie singing kermit might not have been done before, but it doesn't
> resonate as much of much.)
>
> willie's best stuff? the classics i love of course, but 'spirit' and
> 'teatro' are the shit. a few years ago, after a big break-up, i used to cry
> myself to sleep every night listening to "i'm not trying to forget you
> anymore." really.
TEATRO does kill, but for those wondering what's all the hubub, bub,
REDHEADED STRANGER and THE SOUND IN YOUR MIND (which, together, are
basically all one album as they were cut silmultaneously).  Also, I produced
a disc of his sixties demos, and that stuff makes my knees weak.

> and that's not under the embarassing latin pop confession category. my
> penchant for the remake of 'mambo #5' is that.
>
> but don't tell anyone.
"Mambo #5" is way cool.


skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ajda the Turkish Queen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Toy sounds
Date: 14 Feb 2002 13:28:56 -0500

Hi,

Just wanted to chime in with Anna Homler, who uses toys and her own made-up
language [no, not Hopelandish] to create beautifully winsome chimey
splendiforous music.  It's like Pram, but a little more grown up...

The record I like the most is "Corne de Vache" with Geert Wageman and Pavel
Fajt.  Can't remember the label; the record's at home---I know Pavel Fajt
has also worked with Iva Bittova...

I saw Anna Homler perform twice in Houston, once with Ellen Fullman,
actually.  The time she played in a small club was more experimental, to me
anyway.  There were a few tables set up, on which instruments and toys and a
roll of tape and tons of other things were placed.  Using effects, the
sounds she made with the toys were completely warped.  At one point, one of
the other musicians had amplified a tree branch.  You may think that part
sounds pretentious, but in person, it was a beautiful natural statement.

;)
Ajda the Turkish Queen
http://mp3.com/turkishqueen
http://wmbr.mit.edu/schedesc.html#binge
Remix http://drawbridge.com/countess/music.html


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fwd: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 14 Feb 2002 18:41:04 +0000

>From: Mark Saleski <[e-mail]>
>

>i've gotta admit that Missundastood by Pink was my guilty pleasure for
>last year.

Whoa! Wait a minute, where am I, what's my name? I thought I signed on to
the Zorn mailing list, but all I'm gettin' is Britney, Enrique, Shakira,
Pink, what in tarnation is goin' on around here? Maybe I better sign on to
the Britney list, I hear they're discussing the new Naked City live disc...

np: Nothing! Can't find any kiddiepop in my collection...

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: willie and hank
Date: 14 Feb 2002 13:51:58 EST

Funny, only three days ago I got over one hour of killer Hank Williams.  Has
anyone heard the tribute album?

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: willie and hank
Date: 14 Feb 2002 13:52:17 EST



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Queasy?
Date: 14 Feb 2002 14:33:48 -0800

http://www.laweekly.com/ink/02/13/cover-bemis.shtml


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 14 Feb 2002 18:55:34 EST

Your absolutely right.  Why are we giving attention to these no talent hacks.
 I know that the subscribers to this list are looking for new musical avenues
but this is fucking ridiculous.  Modern pop is not a musical form, it is
commercial refuse (next you will be praising then new milk carton for its
striking aesthetic quality).  I you are really that desperate for new music
then maybe you should ask some people (on this list perhaps) for some advice.



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 14 Feb 2002 16:16:40 -0800

on 2/14/02 3:55 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

> Modern pop is not a musical form, it is
> commercial refuse (next you will be praising then new milk carton for its
> striking aesthetic quality).

That's a pretty enormous generalization of a form that is worked in by every
kind of musician from Chuck D to the Backstreet Boys, Prince (a/k/a whatever
he's called at present), Carlos Santana, Ani DiFranco, and about a million
other people.  Modern pop is not all bad just as free jazz is not all good.

skip g


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 14 Feb 2002 19:48:06 EST

That's a pretty enormous generalization of a form that is worked in by every
kind of musician from Chuck D to the Backstreet Boys, Prince (a/k/a whatever
he's called at present), Carlos Santana, Ani DiFranco, and about a million
other people.  Modern pop is not all bad just as free jazz is not all good.

I was trying to make a point.  I know that popular music has offered some
great music over time.  Hell, Count Basie, Hendrix, Benny Goodman, Thad
Jones, Phil Ochs, Frank Zappa, the Beatles, Igor Stravinsky, and Phillip
Glass (I could go on naming but I think you get the idea) were all popular,
even topping the charts, at one time or another.  I am saying that I don't
believe pink, britney spears, or shakira are worthy of any praise at all (i
don't give a shit if you think they can sing).  Music doesn't have to be
obscure to be good but i think some people are getting music and pure
entertainment confused

and on an unrelated note, if I hear that britney spears covers robert
johnson's crossroads for that 32 mm piece of shit coming out then I will lose
all remaining hope I have in the music industry

I hope this clears up my previous statement

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 14 Feb 2002 17:06:39 -0800

on 2/14/02 4:48 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

> I was trying to make a point.  I know that popular music has offered some
> great music over time.  Hell, Count Basie, Hendrix, Benny Goodman, Thad
> Jones, Phil Ochs, Frank Zappa, the Beatles, Igor Stravinsky, and Phillip
> Glass (I could go on naming but I think you get the idea) were all popular,
> even topping the charts, at one time or another.  I am saying that I don't
> believe pink, britney spears, or shakira are worthy of any praise at all (i
> don't give a shit if you think they can sing).  Music doesn't have to be
> obscure to be good but i think some people are getting music and pure
> entertainment confused

I think pure entertainment is just as important as any alleged art, whether
it's SEINFELD or Michael jackson (on one of his good days).  Also, if
literature falls into the provinces of this list, then why not pure
entertainment? Neither has a mandatory "Zorn quotient", but it's good to
know what people think about all this stuff, whether or not you like it.
Also, we all need some entertainment away from this allegedly high-faltuin'
stuff we al beat our chests over.  If you get that from football, that's
great.  If you get it from Selena records, that's great, too.  As long as
you can find it and you get your groove on, it's a fine thing to have in
your life.
>
> and on an unrelated note, if I hear that britney spears covers robert
> johnson's crossroads for that 32 mm piece of shit coming out then I will lose
> all remaining hope I have in the music industry

If you have hope for the industry, you're already in trouble.  It's better
just to love music.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 14 Feb 2002 17:06:13 -0800


On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:48:06 EST  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> and on an unrelated note, if I hear that britney spears covers robert
> johnson's crossroads for that 32 mm piece of shit coming out then I will lose
> all remaining hope I have in the music industry
>
> I hope this clears up my previous statement

It does and we are all trembling at your wrath. Thanks for being so patient
with us and bringing such subtle analysis of the complex interations between
art and entertainment. Keep the good work.

    Patrice.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 14 Feb 2002 20:06:37 -0500

on 02.02.14 8:06 PM, Patrice L. Roussel at [e-mail] wrote:

>
> On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:48:06 EST  [e-mail] wrote:
>>
>> and on an unrelated note, if I hear that britney spears covers robert
>> johnson's crossroads for that 32 mm piece of shit coming out then I will lose
>> all remaining hope I have in the music industry
>>
>> I hope this clears up my previous statement
>
> It does and we are all trembling at your wrath. Thanks for being so patient
> with us and bringing such subtle analysis of the complex interations between
> art and entertainment. Keep the good work.
>
> Patrice.

Isn't it funny when the pissy folk get all hopped up???

Pills, people, pills.

RL


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Scott Handley <[e-mail]>
Subject: "Modern pop" (was: SHAKIRA! was:Britney)
Date: 14 Feb 2002 17:12:21 -0800 (PST)

--- [e-mail] wrote:
> Your absolutely right.  Why are we giving attention
> to these no talent hacks.
>  I know that the subscribers to this list are
> looking for new musical avenues
> but this is fucking ridiculous.  Modern pop is not a
> musical form, it is
> commercial refuse (next you will be praising then
> new milk carton for its
> striking aesthetic quality).  I you are really that
> desperate for new music
> then maybe you should ask some people (on this list
> perhaps) for some advice.

I think Skip imagines some of the extremity of
avant-elitism that he attacks on/in this list, but
your post doesn't help me make a case for that.  What
criteria do you use to ascertain that "modern pop"
(what does that mean?) is "shit" (what does that
mean?)?  Your basis for saying something like that,
aside from being vague, seems totally contingent.  I
don't know about anybody else, but I thought the most
essential level of experimentaal music was
EXPERIMENTAL LISTENING, which has as much to do with
wrapping your ears around listening experiences that
recondition you, that demand a new or at least altered
approach----in other words, require not just some work
on the listener's part, but new _kinds_ of work on the
listener's part.  I guess this could apply to
anything, though I am old-fashioned and tend to think
that some experiences are more fecund than others, for
me.  I don't have time and money enough for
everything, but I try.   I think maybe your ramparts
are built on sand, Kaffe.

Who was with Jim O'Rourke when he saw Cecil Taylor,
and was raaving about how it ranked only above, or
below, the Spice Girls as a great live musical
experience?  What the hell did he say about that?

---------s


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 15 Feb 2002 02:53:46 +0000

>From: [e-mail]

then I will lose
>all remaining hope I have in the music industry

Hope??? Music Industry???

Abandon what little hope ye may have in the 'Business', all ye who dare to
enter the portals of the John Zorn mailing list!

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 14 Feb 2002 22:51:40 EST

In a message dated Thu, 14 Feb 2002  7:49:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:

> I was trying to make a point.  I know that popular music has offered some
> great music over time.  Hell, Count Basie, Hendrix, Benny Goodman, Thad
> Jones, Phil Ochs, Frank Zappa, the Beatles, Igor Stravinsky, and Phillip
> Glass (I could go on naming but I think you get the idea) were all popular,
> even topping the charts, at one time or another.  I am saying that I don't
> believe pink, britney spears, or shakira are worthy of any praise at all (i
> don't give a shit if you think they can sing).  Music doesn't have to be
> obscure to be good but i think some people are getting music and pure
> entertainment confused
>

Hmmm... so what you're saying is that if YOU think it's shit...

> and on an unrelated note, if I hear that britney spears covers robert
> johnson's crossroads for that 32 mm piece of shit coming out then I will lose
> all remaining hope I have in the music industry
>
> I hope this clears up my previous statement
>
> -

No, but it certainly shows your disdain for a type of music you know little about, yet choose to criticize as if you do.  While I'll agree in that Britney is lucky to be both a dancer and a looker, 'cause she certainly wouldn't get far with her voice alone...to simply say that Shakira "can't sing" just shows you haven't listened to much of her music.  The woman has a set of cords, without a doubt.

You'da been better off just complaining about lack of Zorn content...
--
=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 14 Feb 2002 23:09:02 EST

Also, if
literature falls into the provinces of this list, then why not pure
entertainment?

-literature is an art form and entertainment is not (don't be technical about
this)
I believe the zorn list is not the appropriate setting for a discussion on
how much somebody likes pink or britney spears
if you want to discuss avant garde art, zorn, or to strech it, art
(film,literature, whatever as long as it has some artistic validity) then go
ahead, i think that this list is the place, but praising these entertainers
is going to far

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 14 Feb 2002 23:29:39 EST

to simply say that Shakira "can't sing" just shows you haven't listened to
much of her music.  The woman has a set of cords, without a doubt.

i never said she can't sing i said i don't care if she can.  I don't think
that a talent translates into art.  If you read my stament carefully and
didn't jump to conclusions then you would realized this

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 14 Feb 2002 20:43:38 -0800

on 2/14/02 8:09 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

> (film,literature, whatever as long as it has some artistic validity)

who decides this?

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 14 Feb 2002 23:41:29 EST

i do you cunt

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 14 Feb 2002 20:51:31 -0800

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of [e-mail]
> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 8:09 PM

> -literature is an art form and entertainment is not (don't be
> technical about
> this)

I don't even know where to begin, so I won't.

> I believe the zorn list is not the appropriate setting for a
> discussion on
> how much somebody likes pink or britney spears

And I believe the Zorn list is the appropriate setting as well for
discussions on Little Feat, Booker T. and the M.G.'s, the Meters, Liberace,
Jan Hammer, Frank Sinatra, Led Zeppelin, Santana, Quincy Jones, Carole King,
and Roger Williams.

Come on, man! This is a list about a man who likes T. Rex *and* Feldman
*and* Bacharach *and* Maya Deren *and* Napalm Death *and* Messiaen *and*
Faith No More *and* Martin Denny *and* the Langley School Music Project.

Now which part of "avant-garde" were we supposed to discuss?

Later,
Ben

http://members.tripod.com/~tamad2/


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 14 Feb 2002 23:50:27 -0500

on 02.02.14 11:41 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

> i do you cunt

Upphhh, now you've lost control, c'mon now, get into the bathroom there and
get out your pill. Pour yourself a glass o' wawa, take a deep breath-- look
at yourself in the mirror, steady... now TAKE that pill, attaboy...

Phew,

(my wife behind me: "waht is it with you and pills???")

RL
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP;
D.S. WARE; COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL;
WORKMAN; Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag...


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 14 Feb 2002 21:06:03 -0800

on 2/14/02 8:51 PM, Benito Vergara at [e-mail] wrote:

> Now which part of "avant-garde" were we supposed to discuss?

Let's try a few Z-safe names and weigh their anti-Top 40 cred:
Joey Baron?  Nope -- huge Janet Jackson fan
Arto Lindsay?  Nope -- huge Michael Jackson fan.
Burt Bacharach -- nope.  Loves Jam/Lewis and Babyface
Mike Watt?  Uh-uh.  Loved the first few Madonna albums and made a big point
to point out that the bassline fr "Courage" was lifted fr "Like A Virgin".
Elliot Sharp? Likes old heavy metal.  Borderline for him.
Dave Douglas? Majorly into the Beach Boys.
Uri Caine? Another big Janet fan.  Even has the music book for CONTROL.
Glenn Gould? Loved Pet Clark, worshipped Barbra Streisand.
Sun Ra? Gave mad props to Bruce Springsteen as a live performer.
Carla Bley? Not since Linda Ronstadt appeared on ESCALATOR OVER THE HILL.
Fripp? Not after Daryl Hall was on EXPOSURE.
Ahh -- Zappa.  Nope.  Worked often and happily with the Monkees, Grand Funk,
and Alice Cooper.

It seems Charles Gayle is possibly the only safe choice of topic.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 15 Feb 2002 00:04:40 EST

Upphhh, now you've lost control, c'mon now

it's just sarcasm in response to an obtuse remark

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 15 Feb 2002 00:07:40 EST

In a message dated Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:41:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:

> i do you cunt
>
> -

Kaffa46 is awarded this month's "intelligent post of the month" (2 weeks early!!) with this 4 word submission.  Your engaging lexicon is to be saluted!

--
=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 15 Feb 2002 00:07:57 -0500

>> Come on, man! This is a list about a man who likes T. Rex *and*
Feldman
*and* Bacharach *and* Maya Deren *and* Napalm Death *and* Messiaen *and*
Faith No More *and* Martin Denny *and* the Langley School Music Project.

You forgot cartoon music and commercial jingles a la Raymond Scott...



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 15 Feb 2002 00:13:11 EST

In a message dated Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:30:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:

> to simply say that Shakira "can't sing" just shows you haven't listened to
> much of her music.  The woman has a set of cords, without a doubt.
>
> i never said she can't sing i said i don't care if she can.  I don't think
> that a talent translates into art.  If you read my stament carefully and
> didn't jump to conclusions then you would realized this
>

Just to restate your comment...

<< I am saying that I don't
believe pink, britney spears, or shakira are worthy of any praise at all (i
don't give a shit if you think they can sing).  >>

Hmmm...looks to me like you're saying just that...

--
=dg=



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 15 Feb 2002 00:19:31 EST

Let's try a few Z-safe names and weigh their anti-Top 40 cred:
Joey Baron?  Nope -- huge Janet Jackson fan
Arto Lindsay?  Nope -- huge Michael Jackson fan.
Burt Bacharach -- nope.  Loves Jam/Lewis and Babyface
Mike Watt?  Uh-uh.  Loved the first few Madonna albums and made a big point
to point out that the bassline fr "Courage" was lifted fr "Like A Virgin".
Elliot Sharp? Likes old heavy metal.  Borderline for him.
Dave Douglas? Majorly into the Beach Boys.
Uri Caine? Another big Janet fan.  Even has the music book for CONTROL.
Glenn Gould? Loved Pet Clark, worshipped Barbra Streisand.
Sun Ra? Gave mad props to Bruce Springsteen as a live performer.
Carla Bley? Not since Linda Ronstadt appeared on ESCALATOR OVER THE HILL.
Fripp? Not after Daryl Hall was on EXPOSURE.
Ahh -- Zappa.  Nope.  Worked often and happily with the Monkees, Grand Funk,
and Alice Cooper.

It seems Charles Gayle is possibly the only safe choice of topic.


-I dont know if this was directed toward me but I can't sleep so i will give
my thoughts

your sarcasm is not valid.  I think I stated that i didn't mind popular
music. I was just saying that there's a line you have to draw (don't ask me
where because I think with a little imagination, you can guess) this list is
not the place for certain entertainers.  I admit that some in fact some
people are both entertainers and artists (many are actually) an example of
this could be the beach boys.  the song writting and melody lines are both
interesting and dare i say catchy.  But pink is not a fucking artist (I don't
care if some think it's catchy save that for a goddamn pink list)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 15 Feb 2002 00:21:09 -0500

Lest we forget the multiple glowing references to Prince's musicianship
in Miles's autobiography. I think 14 pages or so.

"Prince is like church to gay guys" (Davis and Troupe 385).

Zach




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: (no subject)
Date: 15 Feb 2002 00:26:46 EST

Hmmm...looks to me like you're saying just that...

-i'm not, I am saying i don't care, not that they can't.  I don't think
singing is something an individual should be given praise for (a job well
done maybe)
you can interpret it how you want to but i stand by my statement


ok she can sing but so can millions of others, should i bring up my neighbor
who gives vocal lessons in the next message

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 14 Feb 2002 21:35:58 -0800

on 2/14/02 9:19 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

> I was just saying that there's a line you have to draw (don't ask me
> where because I think with a little imagination, you can guess) this list is
> not the place for certain entertainers.

Nobody shares a list of artists proper to this mailing list, and imagination
seems to vary from consumer to consumer.  And I don't think anybody should
be made to draw lines to appease one guy.  This list has become a place
where people discuss a lot of different things, and even sometimes argue.
Strangely enough, we've learned to love this policy.  It has resulted in me
buying a lot of stuff I normally wouldn't (and if some of you feel
responsible for this, take up a collection and refund the 18 clams
VESPERTINE cost me).

Personally, the damn Pink song gets on my nerves.  But, since this is a
place to discuss music (and Pink is some music I don't like), it makes its
way into the discussion.  Maybe some people will check her out and like it
as a result of what people around here write about her record.  if Zorn
consumers are among her constituency, she becomes a Zorn-related topic, just
as Bjork is, or Elvis Costello, or any number of other people with whom Zorn
does not work closely.

The thing to which I take the most offense is your profanity.  The purity of
your personal aesttheitc is between you and your heart/mind, and I say, have
at it and love what you love.  But the undignified lapse into profanity is
purely crude, and did not win you any allies, nor did it make you look smart
or funny.

skip h



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 14 Feb 2002 21:37:13 -0800

on 2/14/02 9:21 PM, Zachary Steiner at [e-mail] wrote:

> Lest we forget the multiple glowing references to Prince's musicianship
> in Miles's autobiography. I think 14 pages or so.
>
> "Prince is like church to gay guys" (Davis and Troupe 385).
>
> Zach
>
I forgot that quote! That's unbelievable! Too much!

skip h

np: the sound of me on the floor shrieking with laughter


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 14 Feb 2002 21:44:30 -0800

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of skip heller
> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 9:06 PM

> Sun Ra? Gave mad props to Bruce Springsteen as a live performer.

Skip, you got to back that one up. Where and when did he say this?

This is almost as unbelievable as Bill Clinton being a Peter Brotzmann fan.
=)

Later,
Ben

http://members.tripod.com/~tamad2/



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 14 Feb 2002 21:51:42 -0800

on 2/14/02 9:44 PM, Benito Vergara at [e-mail] wrote:

> Skip, you got to back that one up. Where and when did he say this?

pp 315 of BRIGHT MOMENTS: THE LIFE & LEGACY OF RAHSAAN ROLAND KIRK by John
Kruth.  I asked John about this, and he said that Ra had his wits about him
and did not seem to be joking.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: John Zorn and Mike Patton
Date: 15 Feb 2002 00:52:19 EST

I was wondering if anyone could tell me how the collaborations between Mike
Patton and John Zorn began.  I know that Zorn was on the first Mr. Bungle
album, so I guess what I am asking is how Zorn became involved with Mr Bungle
in the first place.

Seth

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Patrick Jenkins <[e-mail]>
Subject: Hazor, Marc Ribot tabs
Date: 15 Feb 2002 02:12:53 -0500

Hi everyone,

Would anyone have guitar tabs for Marc Ribot's solo on Hazor on Zorn's
Zevulun (Circle Maker)? It's great and I would like to explore it on my
guitar. I would appreciate it if anyone has some info on this. Email me
privately if that is best. If you have tabs on Ribot's work on Bar Kokhba
and Fimworks 8, I would appreciate that as well.

Thanks.
Patrick Jenkins



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "John Schuller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Braxton?
Date: 14 Feb 2002 23:21:54 -0800

I only have one Anthony Braxton Disc "Seven Compositions" any others I
should check out?

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Braxton?
Date: 14 Feb 2002 23:32:00 -0800

on 2/14/02 11:21 PM, John Schuller at [e-mail] wrote:

> I only have one Anthony Braxton Disc "Seven Compositions" any others I
> should check out?
>
For his playing, I recommend CIRCLE IN PARIS (with Chick, Altschul, and
Holland).  That record still sounds really fresh after the 6,000,000 times
I've heard it.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Alban Jacques <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Braxton?
Date: 15 Feb 2002 08:52:50 +0100

To listen the best i think, try "for alto", my favourite
a
>
> > I only have one Anthony Braxton Disc "Seven Compositions" any others I
> > should check out?
> >
>For his playing, I recommend CIRCLE IN PARIS (with Chick, Altschul, and
>Holland).  That record still sounds really fresh after the 6,000,000 times
>I've heard it.
>
>skip h
>
>
>-


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Clint Nation <[e-mail]>
Subject: Game theory
Date: 14 Feb 2002 19:33:30 -0800

Did any of Mr. Zorn's Cobra projects turn out according to the set
plan.  Given the axioms of rational choice, the axioms that Mr. Zorn
set-up, one should be predict the outcome of the musical interaction.
As we know people do not always act rationally and this would lead to
the piece not working out according to the "set" plan.  Note: Rational
chaoice would be determined by the axioms set up  by Mr. Zorn.....i.e.
"It is rational to prefer the destruction of the universe to the
scratching of one's finger"-Hume.  If so what peices actually work out
and are there any writings explaining the logic and axioms used?
A new member,
XQUIQ

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jim Flannery <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 14 Feb 2002 23:56:36 -0800

[e-mail] wrote:
>
> In a message dated Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:41:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [e-mail] writes:
>
> > i do you cunt
>
> Kaffa46 is awarded this month's "intelligent post of the month" (2 weeks
> early!!) with this 4 word submission.  Your engaging lexicon is to be saluted!

Actually, it'd make a nice basis for a permutation poem ala Gysin, wouldn't it?

I Do You Cunt
Cunt You Do I
Do I Cunt You
You Do I Cunt
I Cunt You Do
etc....

--
Jim Flannery                                             [e-mail]

         "It seems that the less respect you have for the legacy
          of jazz, the more likely you are to create it."
                                                     -- Steve Hanson
np: Ptolemaic Terrascope #31 cd
nr: John D'Agata, _Halls of Fame_

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: nelson saarni <[e-mail]>
Date: 15 Feb 2002 02:32:45 -0800 (PST)

--0-1700777008-1013769165=:72232
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

is mr john zorn ever going to tour the west coast?


Do You Yahoo!?
Got something to say? Say it better with Yahoo! Video Mail
--0-1700777008-1013769165=:72232
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

is mr john zorn ever going to tour the west coast?<p><br><hr size=1><b>Do You Yahoo!?</b><br>
Got something to say? Say it better with <a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/tag/?http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/">Yahoo! Video Mail</a>
--0-1700777008-1013769165=:72232--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "dekater" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Toy bands
Date: 15 Feb 2002 11:22:38 +0100

The Beresford/Bennink Cd is on ICP 037, it was distributed by BVHAAST but
seemed to be sold out.

Children's toys are also used by Palinckxdrummer Alan Purves, who in fact is
thinking of making an album by only using this kind of things. On "O Amor
Natural" you find music to a dance-and poetry performance of Handtheater, a
group which performs erotic poems of Carlos Drummond in sign language.
Purves uses: ghost tubes, plastic frog, plastic crickets, scotie drum,
whurlie wurlies (tubes), jingle bells, lama nails, wee moothie, wee
tambourines, plastic woodblock, penny whistles, lielow pumps with whistles,
bodhran, various cymbals, doyoyo, turntin, wee bell, happy apple.

Jan Luyben

>
> Dutch guitar player Jacques Palinckx uses children's microphones for cheap
> reverb on stage. Palinckx takes a very perverse twist by also using
dildo's
> and vibrators, mostly in the same solo. Ofcourse, it is hard to point out
> precisely, where on his records he does exactly this little trick, but
weird
> guitar playing is all over his cd output (perhaps also available through
> Cadence)...
>
> Regards, Remco Takken
>
>
> -
>
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 14 Feb 2002 22:20:28 +0100

Hi,

I see that there's still some z-listers who don't know about the existance
of the delete button, so discussed some weeks ago.
I really think it's healthy to have such diversified threads on any field
although this one about Shakira & co has looked at the top-40 "shelves". So
what? How many top-10 hits did the herein appraised Burt Bacharach get
during his career? There's obviously an abyss between these
so-Grammy-awarded Latin pop-stars and the enlightening gems of BB, but there
should be room for everyone in a list where you're discussing NC on Monday
and Tuesday turns to Hank Williams. And that's precisely one of the charms
of this list, IMHO. Surprises come up almost on a daily basis. I mean,
someone making love to Derek Bailey's solo albums?!... That's priceless.

Best,

EfrΘn del Valle
n.p: Tortoise "MIllions NOw Living Will Never Die"



> Your absolutely right.  Why are we giving attention to these no talent
hacks.
>  I know that the subscribers to this list are looking for new musical
avenues
> but this is fucking ridiculous.  Modern pop is not a musical form, it is
> commercial refuse (next you will be praising then new milk carton for its
> striking aesthetic quality).  I you are really that desperate for new
music
> then maybe you should ask some people (on this list perhaps) for some
advice.
>
>
>
> -


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Braxton?
Date: 14 Feb 2002 20:05:34 +0100




> on 2/14/02 11:21 PM, John Schuller at [e-mail] wrote:
>
> > I only have one Anthony Braxton Disc "Seven Compositions" any others I
> > should check out?

I'm not a huge Anthony Braxton fan but I do love "Ten Compositions (Quartet
2000)". It's impressive, pretty much in a traditional jazz format - don't
expect wild innovations, but very intense and 100% enjoyable.

Best,

EfrΘn del Valle
a.e: Duke Ellington "Such Sweet Thunder"


_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ricardo Reis <[e-mail]>
Subject: InTolerance (and a devious way to make Zorn content)
Date: 15 Feb 2002 12:55:59 +0000 (WET)


    ... by D.W.G.. oh, hell, this wasn't to be here. but since Effren
almost hit the nail of my own opinions (one of the good points of the list
is the strange taste spectrum displaied by it's members) i would recomend
something for everyone to dig their ears into: portuguese guitar, solo
(can't help thinking in the great master, Carlos Paredes) and in it's
traditional role, serving to create the musical backdrop to fado singers
(check Amalia Rodrigues who not only was "The" fado singer but went to a
few different styles of portuguese traditional music).
    oh, yes, connection with Zorn? in one of his recommendations list
on Tzadik he mentions Fernando Pessoa, who whose a great portuguese poet
and who surely listened some time or other to fado...

            greets!,

         Ricardo Reis, who is heading to a propulsion exam

                "Non Serviam"


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Andy Marks <[e-mail]>
Subject: Music from "The Simpsons"
Date: 15 Feb 2002 05:09:23 -0800 (PST)

Anybody else here big Simpson's fans?
The first album of music from the show,
"Songs in the Key of Springfield" is simply
brilliant, IMHO. I think it really captures
the spirit of show as well as showcasing the
great tunes, which range all over the musical
spectrum.

The second album is ok, if only for the Sonic Youth
cover of the theme song.

PS: There is a Zorn connection here. The
Esquivel hits album "Space Age Bachelor Pad
Music" liner notes feature quotes from both
Zorn and Matt Groening. Maybe we should start
a "Six degrees of Separation" thing for Zorn?
Britney to Zorn anyone?

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Got something to say? Say it better with Yahoo! Video Mail
http://mail.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Stephen Fruitman)
Subject: Re: Music from "The Simpsons"
Date: 15 Feb 2002 14:14:13 +0100 (MET)

>Anybody else here big Simpson's fans?

Of course! Mr. Burns=B4 "See My Vest" is one of the all-time great fake show
tunes, up there with "Springtime for Hitler"....

Stephen Fruitman
Dept of Historical Studies
Ume=E5 University
SE-901 87 Ume=E5 Sweden



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jonas Leddington <[e-mail]>
Subject: shakira
Date: 15 Feb 2002 09:24:40 -0500

>Surprises come up almost on a daily basis. I mean,
>someone making love to Derek Bailey's solo albums?!... That's =
priceless.

>Best,

>Efr=E9n del Valle
>n.p: Tortoise "MIllions NOw Living Will Never Die"

Very funny.  Thanks for the laugh, Efr=E9n.

With regards to the Shakira discussion: as much as real elitism is
self-defeating, distasteful, and ridiculous, I also find that people =
with
different and difficult tastes often pander to the popular, as if the
"liberated and thoughtful" avant-garde consists only of those who see =
the
value in and enjoy pop music.  (By "real" I mean pretense and =
intellectual
dishonesty versus that which is called "elitism" from the outside, but =
is
really only an uninformed statement about someone's honest tastes and
inclinations.)  It seems were not willing to make strong statements =
about
art or artists for fear of having someone claim we miss the point or =
are
ignorant.  It's as if those who seek continually to expand their tastes =
and
voyage into new terrains are responsible for defending popular forms =
that
promote complacency, passivity, and drool, while complacent and passive
listeners and viewers are free to deride and consume without thought.  =
The
unwillingness of those who take art (and life) seriously to make =
critical
statements is problematic.

I forget who it was, but one of the composers we discuss on this list =
was
very dismissive of pop music, deriding the songs for having only 10 =
seconds
of musical information.  (I want to say it was Zorn at the Miller, but =
I
could be entirely mistaken.  Probably it was someone more prone to such
statements, like Boulez.)  Personally, I don't believe Ms. Spears is an
artist.  She's a very hard-working, charismatic, savvy, squeaky piece =
of
ass.  Misogyny you accuse?  The male gaze?  Well, I say she earned it.  =
The
appropriation of the word artist by those whose labors are =
materialistic and
shallow is insulting to those whose involvement in the world and their =
art
is thoughtful, far-reaching, and full of love (much like Bush's =
horrifying
appropriation of "patriot" in the oh-so-patriotic Patriot Act USA).

Regards,
Jonas


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mark Saleski <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Braxton
Date: 15 Feb 2002 09:22:29 -0500


i really love the Willisau discs....does anybody know if they're still
available? they're missing from my most recent Cadence.

and skip is right,  Circle In Paris is fantastic. i've got a mint lp
copy of that one and i just get lost in it....

mark

NP: commercial refuse

--
Mark Saleski - [e-mail] | http://www.foliage.com/~marks
"Music is spiritual. The music business is not." - Van Morrison



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jason tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: eyvindkang recs
Date: 15 Feb 2002 07:25:41 -0800 (PST)

hello all, just listening to the tribute to dave brubeck "in his own
sweet way" and I need to explore more eyvind kang, any recommendations?

thanks, J

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Got something to say? Say it better with Yahoo! Video Mail
http://mail.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: eyvindkang recs
Date: 16 Feb 2002 02:41:40 +1100

> hello all, just listening to the tribute to dave brubeck "in his own
> sweet way" and I need to explore more eyvind kang, any recommendations?

Always amazing. Of his own Tzadik albums, Theatre Of Mineral NADEs is the
most tuneful and simple, 7 NADEs is more experimental, and The Story of
Iceland is somewhere in between. My pick is 7 NADEs. If you like the weirder
noisier stuff on there, hunt down Sweetness of Sickness, which is I believe
is his first album. His work on Bill Frisell's Quartet is also great, a
wonderful album on the whole as well.

Other projects he is/has been part of: Secret Chiefs 3, Dying Ground, Wayne
Horvitz's 4+1 Ensemble, etc...


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: eyvindkang recs
Date: 15 Feb 2002 16:47:35 +0100 (CET)

HI,

> hello all, just listening to the tribute to dave
> brubeck "in his own
> sweet way" and I need to explore more eyvind kang,
> any recommendations?
>
> thanks, J

I've heard "7 Nades" and I liked it, although it's a
bit too noisy in some moments.
I do own "Theatre of Mineral Nades" and something
paradoxical happens to me with that album. Although I
don't dig the traditional Middle Ages material that
comprises most of the music therein, I really think
it's a marvellous, immense achievement by Kang. He
really managed to create a fascinating world in the
recording studio, IMHO, and gave us a tremendously
imaginative series of soundscapes that run from
bossanova to Indian melodies, reggae, chamber music,
etc... It brings lots of diversified imaginery to my
mind, in the same way "Spillane" or "Disco Volante"
did to me. It's kind of dreamy, I'd say. I guess I
should conclude I'm quite fond of the album, but
partially. However, objectively I think I can say it's
a masterfully shaped record.
To fully enjoy his violin playing (in "Theater..." he
plays virtually everything at hand) I'd recommend
"Dying Ground" on Avant with Kato Hideki and Calvin
Weston, if my memory serves. It's a power trio with a
very strong sound.
Also, his appeareance in Secret Chiefs 3 live album
(don't remember the title) is just amazing.
I saw a video bootleg of Wayne Horwitz'Motel Room
6(approx) and I couldn't believe it. He was just a
blast, kind of a electric violin-Hendrix!

Hope it helps.

Best,

EfrΘn del Valle

_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: Re: eyvindkang recs
Date: 15 Feb 2002 16:50:07 +0100 (CET)

Hi,

Julian wrote:

His work on Bill Frisell's
> Quartet is also great, a
> wonderful album on the whole as well.

I forgot that one and I strongly second that
recommendation. The only Frisell record I've really
enjoyed (sorry, Frisell fans). A very beautiful album,
no doubt.

Best,

EfrΘn del Valle

_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Whit Schonbein <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: Braxton?
Date: 15 Feb 2002 09:51:33 -0600 (CST)


Skip mentioned Circle - Paris concert, on ECM (and back in print), which
is absolutely excellent.

Someone else mentioned 'For Alto', which is a classic in the genre of solo
sax recordings.  I haven't heard it in many years so can't really say
anything positive or negative about it.

My personal Braxton desert island discs are:

Dortmund 1976 (hatart) - recently back in print.  Everyone is on fire and
incredibly together, turning on a dime.  Amazing.

Willisau (quartet) 1991 (hatart) - excellent document of his later quartet
(crispell, hemingway, dresser, braxton).  the performances are great, and
the sound quality is such that you can really pay attention to the
contributions and interplay of the different instruments.

there is plenty more Braxton that I enjoy, but these two are what really
got me into his music (+ Circle).

cheers,
whit
np - the sound of a student taking a logic exam



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Speaking of Crossroads Fwd: EI March Calendar
Date: 15 Feb 2002 09:57:07 -0600

New Yorkers and visitors might be interested in some of the upcoming
performances at Phill Niblock's loft space. Britney/Robert Johnson
fans should note the title & concept of the Guy De Bievre performance
that kicks off this series.

>Experimental Intermedia
>The Twenty-eighth Anniversary of EI performances at 224 Centre Street, the
>Thirty-third Anniversary of the Founding of
>Experimental Intermedia, the Thirty-third Anniversary of the
>224 Centre Street loft, and, not least,
>The Twelfth Annual Festival  with no fancy name, Part Two (or B)
>                         March 2002
>
>Guy De Bievre   Monday 4
>Crossroads/Invocation for live microphone feedback and real time DSP
>"If you want to learn how to make songs yourself, you take your computer
>and you go to where the road crosses that way, where a crossroads is. Get
>there be sure to get there just a little 'fore 12 that night so you know
>you'll be there. You have your computer and be playing
>a piece there by yourself. A big black man will walk up there and take your
>computer and
>he'll install new drivers on it. And then he'll play a piece and hand it
>back to you. That's the way I learned to play anything I want"

>Jim O'Rourke    Tuesday 5
>. . . . and john travolta in "up<---->up"; film and "music" from o'rourke
>which will appeal to all who own demagnetizers, and other gardening
>enthusiasts

>Anne Wellmer    Wednesday 6
>travelling barefoot / mappings#3: journey with an interactive improvising
>map; with matt bauder sax + objects, chris dahlgren double bass +
>preparations, anne wellmer
>powerbooks; visuals: boris gerrets, justin bennett, aw; voices: vilem
>flusser, doretti neander

>Bolsa Ernesto de Sousa, a memorial fellowship named for the Portuguese
>Intermedia Artist, sponsored by the Luso-Americana Foundation and the
>Fundacao Calouste Gulbenkian, in Lisbon, coordinated by Isabel Alves,
>presents an intermedia performance:
>Elga Ferreira   Friday 8
>"UnReal", an interactive installation, where the user feels (by the senses)
>and interacts
>with a virtual environment that makes them feel their post-biologic
>condition

>Michael Northam         Sunday 10
>Acousmatician/improvisor/nomad presenting his extended sound lattices
>developed over the last year in Oregon and France, interjected with live
>manipulations of carillion, chimney cleaner, cactus, obsidian and other
>sonic debris

>Nicolas Collins         Monday 11
>Sled Dog -- music that shimmers, glimmers and shakes; with a brief but
>essential appearance by Robert Poss on acoustic guitar
>
>Our programs are supported by the New York State Council on the Arts,
>the Phaedrus Foundation, and The Aaron Copland Fund for Music
>224 Centre Street at Grand, Third Floor, N Y 10013       $4.99
>212 431 5127, 431 6430, fax [phone]        9pm
>         Experimental Intermedia, based in New York City, was founded in
>1968 by Elaine Summers to provide organizational support for artists
>working in intermedia forms. Throughout its history EI has produced more
>than 1000 events in its New York lofts. EI has also produced many
>intermedia events in other cities in the U.S. and other countries. EI now
>produces 20 events each season; manages its compact disc label, XI;
>develops and implements international projects in collaboration with
>like-minded organizations in Belgium, The Netherlands, Germany, Portugal
>and elsewhere
>Phill Niblock, Director
>Check our new, and always under construction, web sites:
>experimentalintermedia.org and XIrecords.org
>Activities of Experimental Intermedia v.z.w. Gent
>         In 1993, the American artist Phill Niblock opened a house with
>window gallery at Sassekaai 45, in Gent, Belgium. Quickly the EI Huis
>became a meeting place for many local and international artists and art
>lovers. In 1997, the co-ordinating committee - Phill Niblock, Maria
>Blondeel, Zjuul Devens, Lieve D'hondt and Ludo Engels - founded a Belgium
>organization, the Experimental Intermedia v.z.w. Gent. EI presents 4 or
>more installations a year in the windows. The installations can be seen
>from the street through two large windows: pedestrians, car drivers, bikers
>and people on the tram cannot help but give attention to the curved front
>with its two windows, bringing the art (often literally) onto the street.
>By exploring the space and the environment, the artist can surprise
>passers-by with his/her creation. EI has produced several projects in
>collaboration with other international artists' organizations like
>Kunstcentrum Sittard, Sittard (NL), MeX, Dortmund (D), ICAEE, Tokyo (JP),
>Voorkamer, Lier (B) and Logos Foundation, Gent (B).
>         The artists who have made installations, listed in chronological
>order, are: Maria Evelein, the Netherlands; Sigrid Lange, Germany; Michael
>Timpson, USA; Michael Vorfeld, Germany; Uli Vonbank-Schedler, Austria;
>Harald  Kubiczak, Germany; Alexandru Patatics, Romania and Gerd Schmedes,
>Germany; Mike Metz, USA and Penelope Wehrli, USA/ Germany (in collaboration
>with the Academy of Fine Arts, Gent); Beverly Piersol, USA/ Austria and
>Gertrude Moser-Wagner, Austria; Juana Valdes, Cuba/USA; Adri Huismann, The
>Netherlands; Kjell Bjoergeengen, Norway; Claudia Wissman, Germany; Claudia
>Schmacke, Germany; Marica Presic, Belgrade, Yugoslavia; Doris Koch,
>Germany; Esther Ferrer, France/Spain; Ludwika Ogorzelec, France/Poland;
>Peter Schoutsen, Netherlands; Jozef Cseres and Michael Murin, Slovakia;
>Steffen Muck, Germany; Maria Friberg and John Oivind Eggesboe, of Sweden
>and Denmark; Mirjam Berloth, The Netherlands; Beate Maria Woerz, Germany;
>Heike Kern, Germany ; Renate Hoffman Korth, Germany, and Sonia Rodrigues,
>Portugal/ England; Leonidas Martin Saura (Spain); Ursula Scherrer,
>Switzerland/USA; Jio Shimizu, Japan; Minoru Sato, Japan; Nina Kovacheva and
>Valentin Stefanoff, Bulgaria / France. Opening March 23, An Seebach,
>Dortmund, Germany
>Please visit the EI Gent website: www.experimentalintermedia.be
>XI Compact Disks currently available:
>Phill Niblock, Four Full Flutes, XI 101; Lois V Vierk, Simoom, XI 102; Guy
>Klucevsek, Flying Vegetables of the Apocalypse, XI 104; David Behrman,
>Unforeseen Events, XI 105; Tom Johnson, Music for 88, XI 106; Mary Jane
>Leach, Celestial Fires, XI 107; Fast Forward, Same Same, XI 108; Ellen
>Fullman, Body Music, XI 109; Jackson Mac Low, Open Secrets, XI 110; Phill
>Niblock, Music by, XI 111; Allison Cameron, Raw Sangudo, XI 112; Daniel
>Goode, Clarinet Songs, XI 113; Mary Ellen Childs, Kilter,  XI 114; Peter
>Zummo, Experimenting With Household Chemicals,  XI 116; The Logos Duo,
>Godfried-Willem Raes and Moniek Darge, Logos Works, XI 117; Annea Lockwood
>and Ruth Anderson, Sinopah, XI 118; Eliane Radigue, Trilogie de la Mort, XI
>119 (3 CDs for the price of two); Malcolm Goldstein, The Seasons:Vermont ,
>XI 120; Paul Panhuysen, Partitas for Long Strings,  XI 122; Tom Johnson,
>The Chord Catalogue,  XI 123; Ellen Band, 90% Post Consumer Sound,  XI 124;
>  Philip Corner,  40 years and one,  XI 125; New Release:  Richard Lainhart,
>Ten Thousand Shades of Blue, XI  115 (two CDs for the price of one)
>You may order directly for $15 per CD for 1 CD, $14 per CD for 2-5 CDs, and
>$13 per CD for 6 or more CDs. In the U.S and Canada please include $2 for
>the first item and $.50 for each additional item for postage and handling.
>Outside the U.S. include $4  for the first item and $1.50 for each
>additional item. Only checks or money orders in U.S. dollars may be
>accepted, payable to XI Records.  New York residents please add applicable
>sales tax. Send to XI Records, P.O. Box 1754, Canal Street Station, New
>York, NY  10013. for info: [e-mail]
>
>
>
>
>Experimental Intermedia
>224 Centre Street
>New York N Y 10013


--
Herb Levy
P O Box 9369  Forth Wort, Texas  76147  USA
817  377-2983
[e-mail]

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Braxton
Date: 15 Feb 2002 11:09:33 EST


--part1_5f.228cc22b.299e8cbd_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 2/15/02 10:53:54 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> Skip mentioned Circle - Paris concert, on ECM (and back in print), which
> is absolutely excellent.
>
>

Can anyone point me to where I can find this disc for sale?  I've checked all
the usual places (cadence, cduniverse, cdnow) and canc't find it listed.

Thanks,
Tom


______________________________________________________________________
Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately,
and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music."

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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/15/02 10:53:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Skip mentioned Circle - Paris concert, on ECM (and back in print), which<BR>
is absolutely excellent.<BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Can anyone point me to where I can find this disc for sale?  I've checked all the usual places (cadence, cduniverse, cdnow) and canc't find it listed.<BR>
<BR>
Thanks,<BR>
Tom<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________________________<BR>
Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately, and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music."</FONT></HTML>

--part1_5f.228cc22b.299e8cbd_boundary--

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "George Scala" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Braxton
Date: 15 Feb 2002 11:17:21 -0500

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many many things can be found at gemm.com, inc. 'paris concert'


  ----- Original Message -----=20
  From: [e-mail]=20
  To: [e-mail]=20
  Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 11:09 AM
  Subject: Braxton


  In a message dated 2/15/02 10:53:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, =
[e-mail] writes:



    Skip mentioned Circle - Paris concert, on ECM (and back in print), =
which
    is absolutely excellent.




  Can anyone point me to where I can find this disc for sale?  I've =
checked all the usual places (cadence, cduniverse, cdnow) and canc't =
find it listed.

  Thanks,
  Tom


  ______________________________________________________________________
  Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber =
lately, and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music."=20

------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C1B612.55F264E0
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<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Diso-8859-1">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 6.00.2600.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>many many things can be found at =
gemm.com, inc.=20
'paris concert'</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; =
BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial">----- Original Message ----- </DIV>
  <DIV=20
  style=3D"BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: =
black"><B>From:</B>=20
  <A title=[e-mail]=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A> =
</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A =
title=[e-mail]=20
  =
href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]=
</A>=20
  </DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Friday, February 15, 2002 =
11:09=20
  AM</DIV>
  <DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> Braxton</DIV>
  <DIV><BR></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT size=3D2>In a =
message dated=20
  2/15/02 10:53:54 AM Eastern Standard Time, <A=20
  href=3D"mailto:[e-mail]">[e-mail]</A>=20
  writes:<BR><BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
  TYPE=3D"CITE">Skip mentioned Circle - Paris concert, on ECM (and back =
in=20
    print), which<BR>is absolutely =
excellent.<BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR>Can=20
  anyone point me to where I can find this disc for sale?  I've =
checked all=20
  the usual places (cadence, cduniverse, cdnow) and canc't find it=20
  =
listed.<BR><BR>Thanks,<BR>Tom<BR><BR><BR>________________________________=
______________________________________<BR>Phil=20
  Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately, =
and=20
  enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music."</FONT>=20
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0024_01C1B612.55F264E0--



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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Braxton?
Date: 15 Feb 2002 11:33:21 EST

-I only have one Anthony Braxton Disc "Seven Compositions" any others I
should check out?-


I am particularly fond of "For Alto", plus any of his quartet stuff

Ryan


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Braxton
Date: 15 Feb 2002 08:43:18 -0800

> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.

--MS_Mac_OE_3096607398_289543_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

on 2/15/02 8:09 AM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

Skip mentioned Circle - Paris concert, on ECM (and back in print), which
is absolutely excellent.



Can anyone point me to where I can find this disc for sale?  I've checked
all the usual places (cadence, cduniverse, cdnow) and canc't find it listed.

Tom --
Look under Chick Corea when searching.

skip h

--MS_Mac_OE_3096607398_289543_MIME_Part
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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: Braxton</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
on 2/15/02 8:09 AM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:=
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2">Skip mentioned Circle - Paris concer=
t, on ECM (and back in print), which<BR>
is absolutely excellent.<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><BR>
<BR>
Can anyone point me to where I can find this disc for sale?  I've chec=
ked all the usual places (cadence, cduniverse, cdnow) and canc't find it lis=
ted.<BR>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><BR>
</FONT>Tom --<BR>
Look under Chick Corea when searching.<BR>
<BR>
skip h
</BODY>
</HTML>


--MS_Mac_OE_3096607398_289543_MIME_Part--


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From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Braxton
Date: 15 Feb 2002 12:04:16 -0500

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Do an artist search for Circle on CDNow.  It's there, though a little
pricy ($35). I know I got my copy at a Tower Records for less, if that
helps.



Zach




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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Do an artist search for Circle on CDNow.  It’s there, =
though
a little pricy ($35). I know I got my copy at a Tower Records for less, =
if that
helps.</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'>Zach</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'> </span></font></p>

</div>

</body>

</html>

------=_NextPart_000_0009_01C1B618.E75285E0--



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 15 Feb 2002 09:22:33 -0800


On Thu, 14 Feb 2002 23:29:39 EST  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> to simply say that Shakira "can't sing" just shows you haven't listened to
> much of her music.  The woman has a set of cords, without a doubt.
>
> i never said she can't sing i said i don't care if she can.  I don't think
> that a talent translates into art.  If you read my stament carefully and
> didn't jump to conclusions then you would realized this

You know, there is also a big business at making "art".

Art used to be personal expression which passes the test of time (measured as
raising interest beyond the usual ghetto, and complacent friends, and people
having financial interest in it). These days people want art to be art just
based on will...

On the other side, I tend to like more and more people who express themselves
without the recourse to the heavy artillery called art.

Let time decides what is art.

Talent is maybe not art (although I doubt you can make art without it), but
a lot of alleged "art" these days is pure self-indulgent crap. At least if
people did not protect themselves behind the word art, could we be more
indulgent for their pathetic attempts...

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Braxton?
Date: 15 Feb 2002 09:47:38 -0800


Unfortunately not available:

*** - NEW YORK FALL 1974: Anthony Braxton (Arista?)

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "David Beardsley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Braxton?
Date: 15 Feb 2002 13:30:50 -0500

----- Original Message -----

> Unfortunately not available:
>
> *** - NEW YORK FALL 1974: Anthony Braxton (Arista?)

Oh yeah! The Arista material is great, it's a shame it never got reissued
on CD.

Maybe...someday...



* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 15 Feb 2002 14:25:37 -0500

...and covers Bjork and Rufus Wainwright on his next disc...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of skip heller
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 12:06 AM

Let's try a few Z-safe names and weigh their anti-Top 40 cred:
[snip]
Dave Douglas? Majorly into the Beach Boys.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Question about RE: Eyvind Kang
Date: 15 Feb 2002 12:29:43 -0700



here's a review from opprobrium which makes this album sound really good.
Has anyone heard it?

(more reviews at
http://www.info.net.nz/opprobrium/html/online/2/e2.html)

EYVIND KANG/DYLAN VAN DER SCHYFF/FRANCOIS HOULE Pieces Of Time CD [Spool]
Messrs Kang, van der Schyff & Houle have produced a great rarity: the free
improvised disc with near-zero dead spots, awkward transitions, or passages
that go on long after the idea's been exhausted. What a joy this is, from
start to finish. The variety is sumptuous: the range of instrument
approaches, the ease from melody to dissonance and from arrhythmic meters to
head-swaying grooves, and the constant resourcefulness of all three players.
The album is filled with stunning sequences: the climax of #1, where Kang's
violin and Houle's clarinet build up to a storm-warning siren; the opening
of #2 (the aftermath?) with its dripping-rain notes from Kang and
percussionist van der Schyff; the brief appearance of Houle's uncredited
wood-flute; the switch to an Asian mode, with Kang's dancing-pitch bowing,
which crosses with a Sephardic melody from Houle; the quiet flurry of
Houle's circular-breathed low tones while Kang and Schyff explore their
instruments' higher registers; Kang's canine whimpers... I could go on and
on. The copyright on this disc says 1999, but if it's as new to you as it is
to me, pick it up and see if doesn't make your best-of-2001 list. -James
Lindbloom

Matt

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 15 Feb 2002 14:34:08 -0500

And Mary J. Blige!

Steve Smith wrote:

> ...and covers Bjork and Rufus Wainwright on his next disc...
>
> Steve Smith
> [e-mail]
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of skip heller
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 12:06 AM
>
> Let's try a few Z-safe names and weigh their anti-Top 40 cred:
> [snip]
> Dave Douglas? Majorly into the Beach Boys.
>
> -


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 15 Feb 2002 14:48:30 -0500

I thought for a long time about what to say in response to this thread
(since I was one of Shakira's more enthusiastic boosters) as I read Kaffa's
descent from outrage to profane name-calling in response to one of Skip's
more thoughtful and patient responses. And maybe I should just keep my mouth
shut. But finally, I kept coming back to one line from Kaffa's first volley:

"Modern pop is not a musical form, it is commercial refuse"

And the really remarkable thing about that is that it was once said about
the Beatles and Hendrix and Dylan's electric music and rap and... oh, but
Kaffa ceded this point.

The new point, then, is that we can't discuss things that someone has
declared off-limits as "Enemies of High Art." So before I make the mistake
of posting about a forbidden topic again, could someone please post a list
of what's okay and what's not?

Clearly what we need here is a Politburo...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 15 Feb 2002 14:49:35 -0500

I knew I was forgetting one...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of James Hale
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 2:34 PM

And Mary J. Blige!

Steve Smith wrote:

> ...and covers Bjork and Rufus Wainwright on his next disc...
>
> Steve Smith
> [e-mail]
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of skip heller
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 12:06 AM
>
> Let's try a few Z-safe names and weigh their anti-Top 40 cred:
> [snip]
> Dave Douglas? Majorly into the Beach Boys.
>
> -


-


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 15 Feb 2002 15:43:26 -0500

Absolutely not. Dave's new disc comes out on RCA in March and features Chris
Potter, Uri Caine (exclusively on electric piano), James Genus and Clarence
Penn. I forget the title, but it's all new original material with the
exception of the Bjork, Wainwright and Blige covers. And it's quite lovely,
what little I've heard so far.

Steve


-----Original Message-----
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 2:55 PM
Cc: [e-mail]; [e-mail]



You guys are joking, right?


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: Braxton?
Date: 15 Feb 2002 21:32:30 +0000

>From: Whit Schonbein <[e-mail]>

>My personal Braxton desert island discs are:


I'd like to recommend Eight(+3) Tristano Compositions 1989 (HatArt 6052),
although it may not be available at the present time (it has been issued a
couple of times).



_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Braxton?
Date: 15 Feb 2002 13:37:26 -0800

If you only buy one Braxton, make it *Dortmund*, hands down, no
room for discussion.

Or *Santa Cruz*.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Braxton?
Date: 15 Feb 2002 13:45:47 -0800


On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 13:37:26 -0800  "s~Z" wrote:
>
> If you only buy one Braxton, make it *Dortmund*, hands down, no
> room for discussion.

Stop! You convince me that I should get that one at any price!!!

    Patrice (fortunate that it has just been reissued).

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Braxton?
Date: 15 Feb 2002 17:25:25 -0500

on 02.02.15 1:30 PM, David Beardsley at [e-mail] wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
>
>> Unfortunately not available:
>>
>> *** - NEW YORK FALL 1974: Anthony Braxton (Arista?)
>
> Oh yeah! The Arista material is great, it's a shame it never got reissued
> on CD.
>
> Maybe...someday...

Mosaic has been working on this for a few years now. Anyone have any recent
info on this?

I'll buy that set,
RL
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP;
D.S. WARE; COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL;
WORKMAN; Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag...


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "D Dvb" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #782
Date: 15 Feb 2002 15:00:16 -0800

If you go to ECM website, you can import Circle's Paris Concert from Germany
for less than $35 (I don't remember how much).

Because of the whole Shakira discussion, I went out and bought her Unplugged
album.  Haven't listened to it yet but really who other than Rizzi is
qualified to say what can and can't be discussed here.  And it's not like
Steve Smith is some corporate shill (are you, Steve?).

And a question for the list.  Can anyone give me a good idea of what IDM is?
  I guess it stands for Intelligent Dance Music but that's vague to me.
Recommended artists, albums etc would be appreciated.  Thanks.

--davy, who never quite figured out what emo was either...

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Scheherazade and Shepp
Date: 15 Feb 2002 18:33:16 -0500

I recently rediscovered this piece of music.  I enjoy it so much.  There
are just parts that make me melt in sentimental piles of goo.  Is this a
piece that is normally liked or scorned by true music experts (i.e. the
z-list members)?

I read some where that Archie Shepp was originally a playwright before
he turned to music.  Is this true? Were his plays "good?"  Did they have
the same quality as his music?

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 15 Feb 2002 18:40:02 EST

In a message dated Fri, 15 Feb 2002 12:23:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]> writes:

> Let time decides what is art.

My first question about this entire "but is it art" thing is, is there anyone here who really listens to music simply because it's "art"?  I mean, does this even enter the mind of people when they listen to music in the first place?  Not meaning to pre-judge anyone, but I'd almost consider anyone who weighs their musical preferences from this angle is analogous to a person who engages in sex simply as an act of procreation.

--
=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 15 Feb 2002 15:48:27 -0800


On Fri, 15 Feb 2002 18:40:02 EST  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> In a message dated Fri, 15 Feb 2002 12:23:09 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]> writes:
>
> > Let time decides what is art.
>
> My first question about this entire "but is it art" thing is, is there
> anyone here who really listens to music simply because it's "art"?  I mean,
> does this even enter the mind of people when they listen to music in the
> first place?  Not meaning to pre-judge anyone, but I'd almost consider
> anyone who weighs their musical preferences from this angle is analogous to
> a person who engages in sex simply as an act of procreation.

Being art or not is the least of my concerns. Art for me is what is in
museums. Basically art is what is left when the dust has settled.

Usually, nobody has a clue of what will end up in that category, but the
contenders are numerous ;-).

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: RE: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 15 Feb 2002 18:54:57 EST

In a message dated Fri, 15 Feb 2002  2:51:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]> writes:

> Clearly what we need here is a Politburo...

Or "Shoot first and then discuss what's acceptable" as Rule #1.

--
=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dave Trenkel <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #782
Date: 15 Feb 2002 16:09:53 -0800

>At 3:00 PM -0800 2/15/2002, D Dvb wrote:
>
>And a question for the list.  Can anyone give me a good idea of what
>IDM is?  I guess it stands for Intelligent Dance Music but that's
>vague to me.  Recommended artists, albums etc would be appreciated.
>Thanks.

Virtually anything by  Aphex Twin, Autechre, Boards of Canada,
anything on the Warp label.

>
>--davy, who never quite figured out what emo was either...

I like his earlier records with Roxy Music :-)

--
Dave Trenkel                                New and Improv Music
http://www.newandimprov.com         [e-mail]
                 Now Available: Minus: Dark Lit
"This is music all-consuming in its beauty and power"
                                -Jake TenPas OSU Daily Barometer


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Dan Given <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Braxton
Date: 15 Feb 2002 16:06:44 -0800

> From: "John Schuller" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Braxton?
>
> I only have one Anthony Braxton Disc "Seven Compositions" any others I
> should check out?


There are two  7 Compositions albums -- one on Moers (i've never heard) and one on Hat, which may be the best thing Braxton has put out. Absolutely beautiful album, but long out of print and not enough people have heard it.  (if it is that one, hold on to it and will it to someone you really care about -- it may be worth a fortune -- I've turned down some good offers for mine).

Anyway, as for what else: Dortmund and Willisau, and I think Santa Cruz have already been mentioned, and all are great discs, as is For Alto.  One of my favorites is Creative Orchestra Koln 1978 -- Braxton himself only conducts, but the band is amazing, with very early work from some of the big names of today (Ehrlich, Ostertag, Hemingway, etc).  I also like Eugene quite a bit, another large ensemble album that he doesn't play on. There was an issue last year on Hat called Basel of a quintet from late 70s that is extremely good... I could go on and on.  Braxton is not only one of the most prolific musicians, he is also intriguing and if you get hooked, you're in deep (I'm at around 100 of his recordings now, and that's nowhere near complete  -- though if I put is alongside Brian Olewnick's collection we may be close!).

Dan


Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping!
http://www.shopping.altavista.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Brian Olewnick" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Braxton
Date: 15 Feb 2002 20:08:53 -0500


>Braxton is not only one of the most prolific musicians, he is also
intriguing and if you get hooked, >you're in deep (I'm at around 100 of his
recordings now, and that's nowhere near complete  -- >though if I put is
alongside Brian Olewnick's collection we may be close!).

Damn, you've got me outstripped, Dan. I'm at only about 70; besides, I bet
Martinelli makes us both look like pikers. But I haven't been getting many
the last couple of years; too many duos with students etc. Although I
thought Composition 247, for two reeds and accordeon (on Leo), was one of
the best things I heard last year. Very much unlike anything else he's done,
almost a Braxton take on ecstatic music a la Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan (and
featuring one of the more interesting young sax players around, James Fei).
People have mentioned most of the Brax I'd recommend, including the
impossible to find items on Arista, but I'd also suggest hearing some of the
solo recordings besides 'For Alto'. Some are rare (ones on Impetus, Ring and
Inner City), but you can probably still locate things like the Hat Wesleyan
set around.

Also, the duo set with Bailey from 1974 is a necessity.

Brian Olewnick

NP: Toshimaru Nakamura - nimb #19-1


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Scheherazade and Shepp
Date: 15 Feb 2002 21:42:42 -0500

>> I have no idea what record you are talking about. Can you tell me the
title, label, and release year?

I guess you're talking about Scheherazade by Rimsky-Korsakov.  Big
sprawling epic symphony.  Famous violin solo.  I'm more partial to the
oboe solos, though.  Don't know when it was written.  I want to say
around the turn of the century (last one) give or take 10-20 years.
There are numerous versions in print, I'm sure they are pretty
comparable.  Though, is there a definitive version?

Zach




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #782
Date: 15 Feb 2002 21:46:55 -0500

on 02.02.15 6:00 PM, D Dvb at [e-mail] wrote:

> If you go to ECM website, you can import Circle's Paris Concert from Germany
> for less than $35 (I don't remember how much).

I have an extra LP version, if who was that is interested I'll be glad to
check it out and see what condition it's condition is in...

Oh. Is that a banned reference?

Am I bad?

I'm probably bad,
RL
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP;
D.S. WARE; COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL;
WORKMAN; Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag...




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 15 Feb 2002 22:39:05 -0500

It's called The Infinite and though Dave insists that this is NOT to be
considered a "theme record" it is his homage to Miles. Sounds very much like
Filles de Kilimanjaro and Nefertiti. No Miles songs, though there is a long
quote from Boplicity in one piece.
It is, as Steve says, quite lovely.

James

Steve Smith wrote:

> Absolutely not. Dave's new disc comes out on RCA in March and features Chris
> Potter, Uri Caine (exclusively on electric piano), James Genus and Clarence
> Penn. I forget the title, but it's all new original material with the
> exception of the Bjork, Wainwright and Blige covers. And it's quite lovely,
> what little I've heard so far.
>
> Steve
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Patrice L. Roussel [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 2:55 PM
> To: [e-mail]
> Cc: [e-mail]; [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
>
> You guys are joking, right?
>
> -


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Braxton
Date: 15 Feb 2002 23:11:08 -0500

on 02.02.15 9:22 AM, Mark Saleski at [e-mail] wrote:

>
> i really love the Willisau discs....does anybody know if they're still
> available?

Re-issued soon I hear.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #782
Date: 15 Feb 2002 23:13:17 -0500

> on 02.02.15 6:00 PM, D Dvb at [e-mail] wrote:
>
>> If you go to ECM website, you can import Circle's Paris Concert

Oh! Conference of the Birds, Dave Holand, Altschul, and Sam Rivers w/
Braxton. There's another perfectly rendered classic for you.

RL
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP;
D.S. WARE; COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL;
WORKMAN; Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag...


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jim Flannery <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: eyvindkang recs
Date: 15 Feb 2002 22:32:43 -0800

Julian wrote:
>
> Other projects he is/has been part of: Secret Chiefs 3, Dying Ground, Wayne
> Horvitz's 4+1 Ensemble, etc...

He also delivers a scorching performance on a half-hour live jam on Sun City
Girls' _330,003 Crossdressers Beyond the Rig Veda_ ... maybe my favorite SCG
track of all time.

--
Jim Flannery                                             [e-mail]

         "It seems that the less respect you have for the legacy
          of jazz, the more likely you are to create it."
                                                     -- Steve Hanson
np: Honeymoon Killers, _Les Tueurs de la Lune de Miel_
nr: John d'Agata, _Halls of Fame_

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Lev 'Ljova' Zhurbin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: NEWS: Important Internet Explorer hole - download patch now!!! (OT)
Date: 16 Feb 2002 02:48:28 -0500 (EST)

Hi Gang,

Several important security vulnerabilities have been discovered in
Microsoft's Internet Explorer browser -- including the capability of
somebody to run a program from your computer.

If you're a user of Microsoft's Internet Explorer (and who ISN'T these
days, right?), please download the patch at the link below.

Microsoft considers this to be a CRITICAL update.

"http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ie/downloads/critical/q316059/default.asp"

(This is not a hoax, the link is ON Microsoft's Site, and I got the info
from McAfee -- please upgrade!)


Sorry for the mass mail!

Warmest,

Lev


--
--------
Lev "Ljova" Zhurbin
http://Ljova.com/

"Metaphors be with you!"
              -?


(PLEASE FORWARD THIS TO YOUR FRIENDS)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ricardo Reis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 16 Feb 2002 10:40:49 +0000 (WET)


    Gazung!

    Art. please could you tell me what goes under this? what's the
hell is this "high art"/"low art" kind of thing? it's amazing (not so
amazing but, heck, i'm easy to amaze) that individuals can argue about
something without knowing what are they arguing about (kind of "u know
what i mean" from both sides and what one really "means" is far from what
is understood by... the other side).

    my definition of art: human achievement capable of causing
satisfaction ("amazement" ;)) through sensorial experiment or intelectual
understanding. and this to mean that art is created not only directly by
it's performer but also by it's audience (somehow i figure that someone
else already wrote this). so save me the crap of dicing something because
it's not "high art" or that "suffering artist against money" kind of
thing. for me those are bogus concepts.
    and in this perspective it's also interesting to notice that when
i see a post of just "this is an essential piece" or "this is a great
album" i must smile. i'm more interested in knowing why it is a great
album or an essential one because i'm curious on such person perspective
of it. there ain't one thing in this big planet that it is "good" by
itself. "good" is a value of judgment related to finality and utterly
dependent on individuals.

            ditto,

     Ricardo Reis, who drank to much coffee this morning

                "Non Serviam"
n.p.: Ute Lemper sings Kurt Weil



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: David Keffer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Review:  Haino & Yoshida:  Until Water Grasps Flame
Date: 16 Feb 2002 10:30:52 -0500

Musicians:  Keiji Haino and Tatsuya Yoshida
Title:  Until Water Grasps Flame
Label:  Noise Asia (Hong Kong) -- NAIM 12 CD -- January, 2002
format:  compact disc - 12 tracks - 64:12 minutes

This disc is a recording of a live performance from April 2000.  All 12
tracks are duets, but the instrumentation on each track varies with Haino
playing guitar, sarode, gyumbari, gothan, esraj, and darbouka.  Yoshida
plays drums, Korg X5D, and darbouka.  (Track 10 is a darbouka duet,
whatever a darbouka is. Some sort of percussion.)  Most of the tracks are
purely instrumental.  Two have a little bit of Haino voice, and only one is
really a song designed around Haino's voice.  The rest are freely
improvised instrumentals.  Some of the songs (especially the electric
guitar and drums duets) are dense and heavy sounding improvisations, a la
Ruins.  In fact the guitar and drums duets really bring to mind the Bailey
and Ruins collaborations ("Tohjinbo" on Paratactile & "Saisoro" on Tzadik).
 But about half the songs have Haino on a variety of ethnic (for lack of a
more accurate term) instruments.  These improvisations are mellower.

When two long-time improvisers get together, you expect seamless
improvisation and that is just what is captured on this cd.  Calling it
improvisation almost seems like cheating.  No one expecting these sorts of
results will be disappointed.  This is not a rock album; expectations of
such will not be met.

Plus, Haino has titled all 12 songs, with his trademark style, so you get
titles like:
That which is prepared is a psychiatrist's frenzy
Signs of gratitude for 5 Hz
Those points of difference with forthrightness which oft come to mind when
recollecting
This vanishing method of grieving

Too good.

David K.
Maintenance Man
An Unofficial Keiji Haino Website
http://www.planetc.com/users/keffer/haino/index.html




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Zorn List Digest V3 #782
Date: 16 Feb 2002 19:20:04 -0500

Not anymore I'm not...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Bob Dylan, oldies bonus disc that came with '"Love and Theft"'
(Columbia)
... want to type about overhyped, here's an album to start the discussion...

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of D Dvb
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 6:00 PM

Because of the whole Shakira discussion, I went out and bought her Unplugged
album.  Haven't listened to it yet but really who other than Rizzi is
qualified to say what can and can't be discussed here.  And it's not like
Steve Smith is some corporate shill (are you, Steve?).


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #782
Date: 16 Feb 2002 16:35:39 -0800

on 2/16/02 4:20 PM, Steve Smith at [e-mail] wrote:

> [e-mail]
> NP - Bob Dylan, oldies bonus disc that came with '"Love and Theft"'
> (Columbia)
> ... want to type about overhyped, here's an album to start the discussion...

You don't like LOVE & THEFT?! It was one of my tops for the year.

sh


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Zorn List Digest V3 #782
Date: 17 Feb 2002 02:24:34 -0500

I had a feeling I'd raise your hackles on that one, Skip. I knew it had to
be one you liked.

Thing is, I like it, too. It might well have made my list of favorites of
the year, had I bought it in 2001 - maybe. It certainly sounds like an
artist who's aging gracefully, like Willie Nelson and even Johnny Cash for
the most part. The music has a timeless quality, like Bob's re-examining his
Harry Smith and his Lomax and even some swing sides. And the presence of
Augie Meyers on anything automatically raises the bar.

But the BEST album of 2001, according to lots of critics and the Village
Voice Pazz & Jop Poll? I think not. Lyrically, it felt to me like Bob was
coasting most of the time. I have to admit it: I'm more in line with the
minority who felt that the best songs on '"Love and Theft"' wouldn't have
been the fourth or fifth best songs on 'Another Side' or 'Blonde on Blonde'
or 'Blood on the Tracks' (and I'll go so far as to add 'Infidels' to that
sacred list).

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Ravel, 'L'heure espagnole' (Opera D'Oro)

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Saturday, February 16, 2002 7:36 PM

on 2/16/02 4:20 PM, Steve Smith at [e-mail] wrote:

> [e-mail]
> NP - Bob Dylan, oldies bonus disc that came with '"Love and Theft"'
> (Columbia)
> ... want to type about overhyped, here's an album to start the
discussion...

You don't like LOVE & THEFT?! It was one of my tops for the year.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: willie
Date: 17 Feb 2002 02:26:27 -0500

Kurt, Kurt! I said Willie was making "some of" the best music of his career.
And that would include 'Spirit,' 'Teatro,' "Rainbow' (which came out on
Island and includes more than kids' songs, including a cover of "Just
Droppped In (To See What Condition My Condition Was In)") and, rumor has it,
the new duets thing - though that I've not yet heard.

The classic stuff, of course, remains 'Red Headed Stranger' (and now I've
got to track down that other disc that Skip mentioned...) and 'Stardust.'

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Ravel, 'L'heure espagnole' (Opera D'Oro)

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Kurt Gottschalk
Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 12:54 PM


really, steve? willie's making the best music of his career? i'm not about
to give him an ever-so-trendy trashing ("I Liked Him Back When"), but "milk
cow blues" suckd and the latest calvacade of stars hardly looks more
impressive.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 17 Feb 2002 10:19:18 +0100

Patrice L. Roussel <[e-mail]> wrote:

> Art used to be personal expression which passes the test of time (measured
as
> raising interest beyond the usual ghetto, and complacent friends, and
people
> having financial interest in it).

 I often wonder what makes music that sounds well after 200 yers better then
such that is valid only in given cultural circumstances. If there's a link
between time and value, i'd be glad to know what does it consist in, because
it's far from being clear. I'd think that it's just one of the positivist
myths about the value of art - some kind of 'objective' criterion that was
made up somewhere, and became so widely accepted that nobody pays attention
anymore to whether it makes any sense or not.
You wrote that we should let the time decide what is art or not - I think
that time will only decide about time, and that's all.
Marcin


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #782
Date: 17 Feb 2002 02:50:49 -0800

on 2/16/02 11:24 PM, Steve Smith at [e-mail] wrote:

> Thing is, I like it, too. It might well have made my list of favorites of
> the year, had I bought it in 2001 - maybe. It certainly sounds like an
> artist who's aging gracefully, like Willie Nelson and even Johnny Cash for
> the most part. The music has a timeless quality, like Bob's re-examining his
> Harry Smith and his Lomax and even some swing sides. And the presence of
> Augie Meyers on anything automatically raises the bar.
>
> But the BEST album of 2001, according to lots of critics and the Village
> Voice Pazz & Jop Poll? I think not.

Well, I don't really pay attention to the VOICE.  I pay more attention to
Dave Alvin, who I think is our greatest American songwriter at present
(along with Lucinda Williams and Steve Earle).  And Dave called me and said,
"Get off the phone and go get the new Bob record.  NOW!!" And I got it, came
home, and stayed excited through the whole disc.  Still am.  Bob's clearly
having a blast.

> Lyrically, it felt to me like Bob was
> coasting most of the time.

Actually, this is one of those times I disagree with you mightily.  I think
he's discovered Johnny Mercer (in fact, I know this for a fact) and is
finally intrigued with an earlier era of songwriting.

>I have to admit it: I'm more in line with the
> minority who felt that the best songs on '"Love and Theft"' wouldn't have
> been the fourth or fifth best songs on 'Another Side' or 'Blonde on Blonde'
> or 'Blood on the Tracks' (and I'll go so far as to add 'Infidels' to that
> sacred list).

I'd add about half of INFIDELS to that list (espec "Jokerman"), but I will
say this -- you're not looking at a guy who still thinks about things in a
way that will result in another BLOOD ON THE TRACKS (which could be the
single greatest album ever made).  Bob's a much looser guy than he used to
be.  And that quality is what I love about this batch of songs.  In a way,
the analogous release would be less BLOOD than NEW MORNING.  And I love NEW
MORNING very dearly.  Every love affair gone wrong, I reached for BLOOD.
Every long roadtrip with a woman I was crazy about, NEW MORNING.  I love 'em
both mightily.

As far as anything being the best on a critics poll -- it doesn't make a
whit of difference to me.  I'm one of the critics polled by the LA WEEKLY at
year's end, and I always beg off the "Album Of The Year" category because I
know I'm missing stuff that would make me scream with joy.  And enough
critics I know say things like, "Well, I voted for this album because
[insert name] made a good album this year and he never gets his props", so I
take it all with a grain of salt.  Likely, the VOICE crits were so happy to
see Bob actually taking an interest in his work again that they felt a need
to let him know they're interested too.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 17 Feb 2002 02:55:25 -0800

on 2/17/02 1:19 AM, Marcin Gokieli at [e-mail] wrote:

> If there's a link
> between time and value, i'd be glad to know what does it consist in, because
> it's far from being clear. I'd think that it's just one of the positivist
> myths about the value of art - some kind of 'objective' criterion that was
> made up somewhere, and became so widely accepted that nobody pays attention
> anymore to whether it makes any sense or not.
> You wrote that we should let the time decide what is art or not - I think
> that time will only decide about time, and that's all.
> Marcin

Here here.  I've got a buttload of great records that were unknown when they
came out in, say, 1940, and are still great.  And nobody knows about 'em.
Every now and then, we luck out and an Esquivel gets rediscovered, or a
Shaggs, or a Herbie Nichols.  But largely many wonderful things are left
undiscovered forever, except by a few fanatics.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Odp: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 17 Feb 2002 12:53:59 +0100


----- Original Message -----

>
> Shaggs, or a Herbie Nichols.  But largely many wonderful things are left
> undiscovered forever, except by a few fanatics.

And the moment of their discovery - whether by some kind of fanatic or not -
has little to do with the value of the work.
Marcin


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: All about cello
Date: 17 Feb 2002 11:58:13 +0000

Hello Zornies.

It's time to play an old favorite game of ours: Turning people on to cool
music. This time the keyword will be "cello".

I have a friend who stared playing the cello recently, and I would like to
present him with some cello music which might in the long run lead in to the
twisted world of "zornlist music".

So far he mainly knows classical cello, like Pablo Casals, but he is
interested to check out more stuff, especially outside of the classical
world.

Our subject is not into experimental music, and I'm afraid something too
radical will turn him off. Some something fairly easily listened, but with
an edge which might lead elsewhere.... you know what I mean.

So far, I have copied some Bar Kokhbah which has worked rather well.

Of the top of my head the cello players I come to think of are: Tristan
Honsinger, Erik Friedlander, Ernst Reiseger, Tom Cora. Any recomendations
for their stuff??

I have "Gumbo In Limbtion" (or whatever it's called) which is Tom Cora solo.
It has some really nice parts, but also some of it sounds like he is
butchering the cello and I think it might frighten my friend away.
Has he done anything which is more constantly melodic??

Also reccomendations for "purely" mainstream use of cello outside the
classical world, will be very valuable. Is there anything like a jazz
quartet with soloing cello????

All the best,

NP: Faust w. Tony Conrad (3. time today)
NR: http://www.deadmedia.org/

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: All about cello
Date: 18 Feb 2002 00:01:33 +1100

> Of the top of my head the cello players I come to think of are: Tristan
> Honsinger, Erik Friedlander, Ernst Reiseger, Tom Cora. Any recomendations
> for their stuff??

The Clusone 3's "Rara Avis" (with Reijseger) is very good, including some
jazz and also some classical which would make a good entree into the
jazz/experimental stuff. I haven't checked out Erik Friedlander as leader,
but his work on "The Circle Maker" and in Dave Douglas' string group
("Parallel Worlds", "Five", etc) is great.

Hank Roberts is another one, I haven't heard heaps of his stuff, but can
recommend Bill Frisell's "Where In The World?" for some very pleasant cello
playing, and great music in general.

Also, what about Apocalyptica, 4 cellos playing mostly Metallica and other
heavy covers but also some originals..?


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: All about cello
Date: 17 Feb 2002 08:26:19 EST


--part1_196.2696081.29a1097b_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 2/17/02 6:59:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> Also reccomendations for "purely" mainstream use of cello outside the
> classical world, will be very valuable. Is there anything like a jazz
> quartet with soloing cello????
>

Off the top of my head, some of Chico Hamilton's recordings, and Nirvana
Unplugged.

Dale.

--part1_196.2696081.29a1097b_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c0c0c0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">In a message dated 2/17/02 6:59:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Also reccomendations for "purely" mainstream use of cello outside the <BR>
classical world, will be very valuable. Is there anything like a jazz <BR>
quartet with soloing cello????<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c0c0c0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BR>
Off the top of my head, some of Chico Hamilton's recordings, and Nirvana Unplugged.<BR>
<BR>
Dale.<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_196.2696081.29a1097b_boundary--

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "David Beardsley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: All about cello
Date: 17 Feb 2002 09:09:51 -0500

Try Morton Feldman or Iannis Xenakis.


* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: cello.
Date: 17 Feb 2002 09:11:59 EST

mm.  i have to reccomend michael gordon's "industry".  what an amazing piece.
 and, for that matter, any string piece michael gordon ever touched. . .
there is a kronos piece called "potassium" and i don't know if it has been
recorded / released yet, but it's freaking cool, and a piece on bang on a
can's renegade heaven called "i am paul.".

mmm.

love,
  k8.


-----
[ .n o t h i n g  i s  w h a t  i s  s a i d. ]

.k a t e  p e t e r s o n.
.c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r.
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>
<A HREF="http://www.icefoundation.org">http://www.icefoundation.org</A>
(roundtable)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: All about cello
Date: 17 Feb 2002 09:53:38 -0500

Just about anything with Peggy Lee, but I especially like Francois Houle's "In
The Vernacular" with Dave Douglas and Mark Dresser.
Arthur Blythe's "Blythe Spirit" with Abdul Wadud.
Ernst Reijseger's "Colla Voche" on Winter & Winter
"Lee Konitz & The Axis String Quartet play French Impressionist Music from the
20th Century" on Palmetto.

James Hale

Arthur Gadney wrote:

> Hello Zornies.
>
> It's time to play an old favorite game of ours: Turning people on to cool
> music. This time the keyword will be "cello".


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: bob sweet <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: All about cello
Date: 17 Feb 2002 10:01:25 -0500

Check out David Eyges. A Google search will turn up plenty of references
to his stuff.

Bob Sweet
read Music Universe, Music Mind: Revisiting the Creative Music Studio
http://www.arborville.com




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Growing Old Gracefully (was Zorn List Digest V3 #782)
Date: 17 Feb 2002 10:48:37 EST

Growing old gracefully, like Willie, Bob...who else can we add to that list.
There is a new article on Leonard Cohen in this months Spin...I would add him
to the list...

But what is the criteria...obviously, a 60 year old should not be making the
music of a 20 year old, or try to (are you listening Mick Jagger), but on the
other hand, while perhaps not making the most crucial music of their career,
Neil Young and Keith Richards are truly devoted to their muse.

Also, what age should we start at?  Is U2 old?  Is Beck?

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: All about cello
Date: 17 Feb 2002 08:22:26 -0800

Frances Marie Uitti
http://www.radiantslab.com/Uitti/


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Againg Gracefully
Date: 17 Feb 2002 11:30:39 EST


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Funny, aging entertainers seems to be a hot topic these days.  Here's a
snippet from a recent Nick Lowe interview:

"...and then the time came where people weren't ringing me up for quotes and
it still came as a bit of a shock. There's few things more wretched than a
clapped-out pop singer. So I resolved to find a way to use the fact that I'm
getting older in a business that doesn't value age and experience -- unlike
jazz or blues, where you can't be too old. I mean, who wants to listen to a
young blues singer? Not me. So I can use the fact that I'm an old guy doing
this to make people envy the fact that I'm an old guy, and counting the
minutes until they're old so they can be doing it as well. The only problem
is that I've been so successful at developing this unique niche for myself
that I'm not exactly sure there's an audience for it [laughs]."

Other twilight years artists who are still making good music:
Tom Waits
Elvis Costello
Lou Reed
Patti Smith
Alejandro Escovedo


Still a whipper snapper at 33,
Tom

In a message dated 2/17/02 10:49:50 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> Growing old gracefully, like Willie, Bob...who else can we add to that list.
>
> There is a new article on Leonard Cohen in this months Spin...I would add
> him
> to the list...
>
> But what is the criteria...obviously, a 60 year old should not be making
> the
> music of a 20 year old, or try to (are you listening Mick Jagger), but on
> the
> other hand, while perhaps not making the most crucial music of their
> career,
> Neil Young and Keith Richards are truly devoted to their muse.
>
> Also, what age should we start at?  Is U2 old?  Is Beck?
>


--part1_12c.ca48326.29a134af_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Funny, aging entertainers seems to be a hot topic these days.  Here's a snippet from a recent Nick Lowe interview:<BR>
<BR>
"...and then the time came where people weren't ringing me up for quotes and<BR>
it still came as a bit of a shock. There's few things more wretched than a<BR>
clapped-out pop singer. So I resolved to find a way to use the fact that I'm<BR>
getting older in a business that doesn't value age and experience -- unlike<BR>
jazz or blues, where you can't be too old. I mean, who wants to listen to a<BR>
young blues singer? Not me. So I can use the fact that I'm an old guy doing<BR>
this to make people envy the fact that I'm an old guy, and counting the<BR>
minutes until they're old so they can be doing it as well. The only problem<BR>
is that I've been so successful at developing this unique niche for myself<BR>
that I'm not exactly sure there's an audience for it [laughs]."<BR>
<BR>
Other twilight years artists who are still making good music:<BR>
Tom Waits<BR>
Elvis Costello<BR>
Lou Reed<BR>
Patti Smith<BR>
Alejandro Escovedo<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Still a whipper snapper at 33,<BR>
Tom <BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 2/17/02 10:49:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Growing old gracefully, like Willie, Bob...who else can we add to that list.  <BR>
There is a new article on Leonard Cohen in this months Spin...I would add him <BR>
to the list...<BR>
<BR>
But what is the criteria...obviously, a 60 year old should not be making the <BR>
music of a 20 year old, or try to (are you listening Mick Jagger), but on the <BR>
other hand, while perhaps not making the most crucial music of their career, <BR>
Neil Young and Keith Richards are truly devoted to their muse.  <BR>
<BR>
Also, what age should we start at?  Is U2 old?  Is Beck?<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
</FONT></HTML>
--part1_12c.ca48326.29a134af_boundary--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: OT: Chromosomos "Ultra Project"
Date: 17 Feb 2002 12:23:34 EST

Marcin- heard about this outfit?  Copied thios from the RMP newsgroup. =20
Sounds interesting...

    "...One could claim that the sounds of this 'something' bear traces of
the New York's M-BASE, of the sort of Lost Tribe and Greg Osby, that there
is a pinch of Tzadik climates referring to the Klezmer tradition (the superb
'Chasyd'), that there is a bit of Fripp, Coleman, and Skopelitis. However,
you cannot accuse this music of being just thoughtless copying. These
musicians have taken from jazz what is just the most interesting, and as
they are young and open to new music, no wonder the jazz phrasing has been
shored up with the rock-like impetus. Summing up, No 1 debut of the last
year."
(Gazeta Wyborcza - Poland's most popular nationwide neswpaper)

Announcing the release of Chromosomos CD "Ultra Project"


Marcin Bors - git
Artur Dominik - dr
Robert Szyd=B3o - bass

Guests:
Adam Pieronczyk - sax
Artur Majewski - tp
Blanka Miklaszewska - voc
Venetta Nenova Bogdanowa - voc

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Michael Brooker <[e-mail]>
Subject: COBRA
Date: 17 Feb 2002 09:28:05 -0800 (PST)

Hello-

Are there any other recordings of Cobra available
besides:

Tokyo Operations '94
Hat Art Double CD Live/Studio Cobra Performances
Upcoming Cobra Release on Tzadik next month.

Thanks, Mike

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "nors5379" <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: cello
Date: 17 Feb 2002 17:53:26 GMT

please, please dont forget rufus cappadocia. he's most
notable as the celloist for matt darriau's paradox trio and
david fiuczynski's kif. a very dynamic player that in my
opinion is often over looked. he playing is extremely fluid
and its a mix between upright bass and typical cello
playing. check out his website at:
http://www.torsos.com/rufus/index.html

erik friedlander is also a good choice too. very similar in
style to rufus. his first topaz disc was one of my greatest
scores over break out of the used bins.
-darryl.
Darryl Norsen
db.etree.org/shortround
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

if I were an easy bright boy I think
I would say something like, "cleaning
the fingernails with a dirty fingernail
file is a form of masterbation." and I
would probably win a scholarship, a grant,
the king's sword on shoulder and 14 hot
pieces of ass. -charles bukowski


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: All about cello
Date: 17 Feb 2002 13:44:31 -0500

Eric Dolphy's "Out There," I think it was his first album for Prestige.
Instead of a trumpet or another reed, he plays in the quartet with a
cello.  It's incredible.  There are lots of good cello solos and some
nifty interplay.  I'm sorry that I can't remember the cello player's
name and I don't have the case with me.

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: All about cello
Date: 17 Feb 2002 14:07:54 -0500

Ron Carter.
I've never been a big fan of Carter's cello work, though I love him as a
bassist.
I find his cello work a bit too "clean".

Also, I second the earlier vote for David Eyges. Check out the reissue of
his "Crossroads" with Byard Lancaster and Sunny Murray, or his gorgeous
work with Jeanne Lee.

James

Zachary Steiner wrote:

> Eric Dolphy's "Out There," I think it was his first album for Prestige.
> Instead of a trumpet or another reed, he plays in the quartet with a
> cello.  It's incredible.  There are lots of good cello solos and some
> nifty interplay.  I'm sorry that I can't remember the cello player's
> name and I don't have the case with me.
>
> Zach
>
> -


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Growing Old Gracefully (was Zorn List Digest V3 #782)
Date: 17 Feb 2002 12:03:19 -0800

on 2/17/02 7:48 AM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

> But what is the criteria...obviously, a 60 year old should not be making the
> music of a 20 year old, or try to (are you listening Mick Jagger), but on the
> other hand, while perhaps not making the most crucial music of their career,
> Neil Young and Keith Richards are truly devoted to their muse.
>
> Also, what age should we start at?  Is U2 old?  Is Beck?

My personal criterion for this -- and it's by no means scientific -- is 50.
That's how old my dad was when I graduated high school, and I noticed his
concerns becoming much different.

U2 have been in the big recording business for twenty years now.  To put it
another way, twenty years after "Please Please me" was 1983.  Think about
it.  Twenty years at the same job.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: All about cello
Date: 17 Feb 2002 12:04:45 -0800

on 2/17/02 10:44 AM, Zachary Steiner at [e-mail] wrote:

Hank Roberts' playing on Tim berne's FULTON STREET MAUL is still an
eye-opener for me.

Also, a lot of people like Oscar Pettiford's cello stuff.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: COBRA
Date: 17 Feb 2002 16:02:37 -0500

There was a Knitting Factory release, 'John Zorn's Cobra Live at the
Knitting Factory' (KWF CD 124) that featured excerpts from a lot of
different Cobras, back when the game was played regularly by different
groups at the Knitting Factory. While you don't get an entire performance,
you do get some pretty fascinating snippets, including an all-vocal Cobra
that included Brutal Truth's Kevin Sharp, former Soul Coughing vocalist and
KF doorman M. Doughty, and pre-fame Jeff Buckley. Some of the other Cobras
on it are pretty interesting as well, including a clearly proto-Radical
Jewish Culture Cobra with David Krakauer, Frank London and Alicia Svigals,
and another one built around the core members of G-D Is My Co-Pilot. There
are also Jazz Passengers all over the place. (The performance by an
all-critics group, prompted by Kevin Whitehead and featuring the alto sax
stylings of Ira Gitler, seems to have gone undocumented, sadly.)

Zorn apparently hated the disc and fought long and hard to have it deleted.
I think he finally succeeded a couple of years ago and the catalog number
was reassigned to the Tom Cora collection he and Bruce Gallanter assembled.
But I'm sure you might be able to scare up the KF Cobra release if you
search a bit. Check Patrice's discography for complete details of the
contents.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Ravel, 'L'enfant et les sortileges' (Opera D'Oro)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: COBRA
Date: 17 Feb 2002 16:42:57 -0500

I got my copy on Gemm last year some time.  You could check there if you
are interested.

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music
Date: 17 Feb 2002 17:31:08 EST

Was there a gag order imposed about pop music discussions?

Here's more from Nick Lowe:

Q:  Do you keep up with your teen pop?

A:  "Those sort of boy band acts, that sort of thing has always been around.
The thing that I think is amazing is the hundreds of groups that have their
roots in Nirvana, and they are absolutely indistinguishable from one
another. And that music to me, especially after September 11th, it's so
redundant. In a stroke, it became totally dated and out-fashioned. Whereas
the boy band thing . . . we could do with a bit more of that; quite
refreshing and totally acceptable."

This kinda falls in line with the Britney discussion that hung around here
like a persistent cold.

Poppin' to Matthew Shipp's "Nu Bop,"
tom

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music
Date: 17 Feb 2002 14:44:58 -0800

on 2/17/02 2:31 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

> Was there a gag order imposed about pop music discussions?

Nick Lowe transcendeth all gag orders.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: American Pop
Date: 17 Feb 2002 17:59:30 -0500

Since we are talking about pop singers, can we talk about classic pop
singers like Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennet, Bobby Darin, Dean Martin, Mel
Torme, et al? There is a special place in my heart for those cats.

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: " A.VanValin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: All about cello
Date: 17 Feb 2002 15:09:59 -0800


----- Original Message -----



> ... a friend who stared playing the cello ...might ... lead in to the
> twisted world of "zornlist music".
>
>

[warning: no zorn content, no music recomendation, only a mild cautionary
tale]

Mark Salzman in his memoir "Lost in Place: Growing Up Absurd in Suburbia"
talks about - among other things - his painfully adolescent attempts to
pioneer 70's fusion cello. The image of a  sixteen year old playing along to
Return to Forever records and inventing (at least as far as he knew)
lap-style cello is going to be stuck in my mind for years. Akk.

Van





-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: American Pop
Date: 17 Feb 2002 23:42:29 +0000

>From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: American Pop
>Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:59:30 -0500
>
>Since we are talking about pop singers, can we talk about classic pop
>singers like Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennet, Bobby Darin, Dean Martin, Mel
>Torme, et al?

AND Johnnie Ray, lest we forget!

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music
Date: 17 Feb 2002 19:20:43 EST


--part1_45.133b0006.29a1a2db_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 2/17/02 5:42:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> on 2/17/02 2:31 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:
>
> > Was there a gag order imposed about pop music discussions?
>
> Nick Lowe transcendeth all gag orders.
>

Amen to that.

So it goes,
tom

--part1_45.133b0006.29a1a2db_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/17/02 5:42:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">on 2/17/02 2:31 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Was there a gag order imposed about pop music discussions?<BR>
<BR>
Nick Lowe transcendeth all gag orders.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Amen to that.<BR>
<BR>
So it goes,<BR>
tom</FONT></HTML>

--part1_45.133b0006.29a1a2db_boundary--

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Tom Cora
Date: 17 Feb 2002 19:31:41 EST

>Has he done anything which is more constantly melodic??

hmmmm. Well, he was an improvisor & a "new music" type fellow.
Having said that, you might find his work with CURLEW to be of interest. I
would recommend their albums:
A Beautiful Western Saddle
or
"Bee"

He was also on two albums by the US/Swiss band NIMAL, who were sorta an
RIO-leaning avant-progressive type band. Really good & some great melodies.
Try:
Voix A Surface

Hope this helps.

Steve

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jim Flannery <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music
Date: 17 Feb 2002 17:19:39 -0800

[e-mail] wrote:

>
> [Nick Lowe:] The thing that I think is amazing is the hundreds of groups that have their
> roots in Nirvana, and they are absolutely indistinguishable from one
> another.

I would *dare* him to come up with two hundred names that fit this description
-- I mean, that really fit the description: a) have roots in Nirvana and b) are
"absolutely indistinguishable". Anybody who would make such a statement isn't
qualified to make it.

All Asians look alike too, right?

--
Jim Flannery                                             [e-mail]

          "It seems that the less respect you have for the legacy
           of jazz, the more likely you are to create it."
                                                      -- Steve Hanson
np: nothing
nr: John D'Agata, _Halls of Fame_


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Hugo Linares" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: All about cello
Date: 17 Feb 2002 23:00:45 -0300


Julian wrote:

jazz/experimental stuff. I haven't checked out Erik Friedlander as leader,

-------
You have to!
Erik Friedlander as a leader is interesting to say the least.
In no particular order: "Chimera" (Avan), "Topaz" (Siam Records), "Skin"
(Siam Records), "Grains of Paradise" (Tzadik).

Also I'd suggest to listen to Brazilian cellist and arranger Jaques
Morelenbaum on  Egberto Gismonti's"Musica de Sobrevivencia" (ECM) and
Sting's "...All this time" (A&M Records). His playing is superb but
underrated.

Later,

Hugo Linares
NP: NguyΩn LΩ _Bakida_ (Act). Quite a surprising recording.




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: American Pop
Date: 17 Feb 2002 18:42:41 -0800

Anyone here on the list a fan of Johnnie Ray?  He was the bridge
between Sinatra and Elvis
--
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: American Pop
Date: 17 Feb 2002 18:51:35 -0800

on 2/17/02 6:42 PM, Tosh at [e-mail] wrote:

> Anyone here on the list a fan of Johnnie Ray?

> Tosh Berman

Yes.

sh


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: All about cello
Date: 17 Feb 2002 22:24:38 EST

Dave Holland -- Life Cycle.

Tom

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: All about cello
Date: 17 Feb 2002 22:31:19 EST

Oh, and Buell Neidlinger -- Blue Chopsticks

Just got this for Xmas and love it.

You can buy it here:

http://www.k2b2.com/catalog.html

Tom

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "josephneff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: American Pop
Date: 17 Feb 2002 22:51:27 -0500

Hello,
      ...hey, let's add Louis Prima to the list. What (admittedly little)
I've heard from the guy was quite infectious. His version of "Just a
Gigolo"/"I Ain't Got Nobody" immediately comes to mind.

I remain...

Joseph

NP: Paul Bley Evan Parker Barre Phillips- "Sankt Gerold Variations" CD
NR: John Hawkes- "Lunar Landscapes"

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Zachary Steiner
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 6:00 PM


Since we are talking about pop singers, can we talk about classic pop
singers like Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennet, Bobby Darin, Dean Martin, Mel
Torme, et al? There is a special place in my heart for those cats.

Zach



-


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: American Pop
Date: 17 Feb 2002 22:51:37 EST

hoagy carmicheal - one of the great songwriters of his day -

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: American Pop
Date: 17 Feb 2002 20:04:11 -0800

on 2/17/02 7:51 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

> hoagy carmicheal - one of the great songwriters of his day -
>
> -
>
... and, as with Johnny Mercer, one a of the more brilliant interpreters of
nis own material

sh


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Love & Theft/Scheherezade
Date: 17 Feb 2002 23:24:20 -0600

At first I didn't like "Love & Theft" as well as "Time Out of Mind," but I
got real addicted to the songs and have listened to it more than almost
anything else I picked up recently.  Every time they play "Mississippi" on
WWOZ, I get a taste for it again and have to get the album out. And every
song I hear on it, almost, I think "OK, this is my favorite," but then the
next one is also my favorite -- the mark of a great album. I still think
"Time Out of Mind" is the better-sounding album, and more haunting, but
"Love & Theft" has such a wonderful loose feel, and some of Dylan's most
acerbic lyrics.  One of my all-time favorite lines:  "Why don't you break
my heart one more time, just for good luck?"

Just got back from Dylan's concert about 15 minutes ago, actually.  It was
grand, plenty of songs from the new album, but I really missed John Jackson
and Bucky Baxter.  I was never very taken with Charlie Sexton.  He does a
much better job as a sideman than I'd have expected, but Jackson played
those wonderful fills that just seemed to bring something extra out of the
songs.  And Baxter was so earthy and elegant at the same time.  Even though
Sexton was at his best on the more rocking numbers -- they did a searing
'Watchtower" -- the Jackson-era lineup could actually rock harder.  I saw a
show in Daytona Beach that was almost punk at times.

Anyway, it was quite heartening to be in a row full of 20-somethings who
knew both old and new songs (even if I wished the girls next to me would
giggle less), and pretty cool to be thinking "Oh, play something from the
new one," when there are acts 10 years old where you think "God, just play
the old stuff."


I love "Scheherezade."  I love all those over-emotional Russian composers.

Parry



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music
Date: 18 Feb 2002 00:59:59 EST

In a message dated 2/17/02 5:31:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Here's more from Nick Lowe:

 Q:  Do you keep up with your teen pop?

 A:  "Those sort of boy band acts, that sort of thing has always been around.
 The thing that I think is amazing is the hundreds of groups that have their
 roots in Nirvana, and they are absolutely indistinguishable from one
 another. >>

Not quite sure I understand Nick's POV there.  Boy bands were already around
before members of Nirvana had their first tit for breakfast.

--
=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music
Date: 18 Feb 2002 01:03:11 -0600

On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 12:59:59AM -0500, [e-mail] wrote:
> In a message dated 2/17/02 5:31:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [e-mail] writes:
>
> << Here's more from Nick Lowe:
>
>  Q:  Do you keep up with your teen pop?
>
>  A:  "Those sort of boy band acts, that sort of thing has always been around.
>  The thing that I think is amazing is the hundreds of groups that have their
>  roots in Nirvana, and they are absolutely indistinguishable from one
>  another. >>
>
> Not quite sure I understand Nick's POV there.  Boy bands were already around
> before members of Nirvana had their first tit for breakfast.

I think what he's saying is that while the proliferation of boy bands
doesn't surprise him, he's struck by the number of "alternative" groups
that seem all to have been cut from the same roll of flannel.

--
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems        |
|                            http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html |
| Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "serge dautricourt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: brotzmann + Haino + Hano
Date: 17 Feb 2002 22:19:14 -0800

Shadows: Live in Wels (DIW)
Has anybody heard this cd? any reviews?

serge

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music
Date: 17 Feb 2002 23:02:21 -0800

on 2/17/02 11:03 PM, Joseph Zitt at [e-mail] wrote:

> I think what he's saying is that while the proliferation of boy bands
> doesn't surprise him, he's struck by the number of "alternative" groups
> that seem all to have been cut from the same roll of flannel.

They all sounded pretty similar to me as well.  Then again, so did the boy
bands.  But what comment do we expect fr the guy who wrote "Rollers Show"?

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: All about cello
Date: 18 Feb 2002 09:12:47 +0100


> Also reccomendations for "purely" mainstream use of cello outside the
> classical world, will be very valuable. Is there anything like a jazz
> quartet with soloing cello????

Dolphy's 'out threre' features, besisdes Georges Duviver on bass, Ron Carter
on cello. A great record. I've heard people saying that Dolphy was much
better as sideman then as leader. I've got to of his solo discs, and they
are both very good, with 'out to lunch' being IMO the best jazz record that
was not recorded by miles davis.
Marcin


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Chromosomos "Ultra Project"
Date: 18 Feb 2002 09:30:55 +0100



>Marcin- heard about this outfit?  Copied thios from the RMP newsgroup.
>Sounds interesting...

No, i never heard them! It's the second time i learn about the existance of
polish bands that may well be very interesting. Adam Pieronczyk, who's
credited on sax as guest, is one of the best sax players here, and his
presence may indicate, taken with what the excerpt was saying, that the
thing might well be interesting. I, for one, got interested, and will try to
check them out.
    I must warn you, however, that one should take the jazz review from
'gazeta wyborcza' with a grain of salt. Their jazz colums are hosted by a
guy called piotr iwicki. I had a dubious pleasure to play with him on a jam,
and it's been pretty catastrophic - although I must say that my most
succesful musical projet was born out of the troubles on that jam. It
doesn't necessarily jeopardize his reputation as a journalist. His reviews,
however, do the job. If i remeber correctly, he was the guy to diss
completly a masada trio-kokhba-quartet show, with  - take care here - stress
on the fact that greg cohen hardly knows to play. It's not that his opinions
are necessarily false, it's just that his judgements of quality stand in
random relationship with the quality itself.
Marcin


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: All about cello
Date: 18 Feb 2002 09:33:44 +0100


Zachary Steiner <[e-mail]> on dolphy's 'out there':

> nifty interplay.  I'm sorry that I can't remember the cello player's
> name and I don't have the case with me.

I bet you were surprised  that you forgot the name when you checked it out
finally (that's ron carter). A great disc. Got it on a new vinyl reedition,
and it sounds great.
Marcin


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: All about cello, Dolphy and Carter
Date: 18 Feb 2002 13:14:38 +0100

>
> Zachary Steiner <[e-mail]> on dolphy's 'out there':
>
> > nifty interplay.  I'm sorry that I can't remember the cello player's
> > name and I don't have the case with me.
>
> I bet you were surprised  that you forgot the name when you checked it out
> finally (that's ron carter). A great disc. Got it on a new vinyl
reedition,
> and it sounds great.
> Marcin
>
Outward Bound was in fact the first Prestige album Eric Dolphy did (in april
1960), not Out There (but with those titles one could easily get confused).
Ben Tucker played bass on that first one BTW.

The 'out there' sessions from later that year surely contain some gems, but
I would never go as far as saying they sound great. Ron Carter's playing is
so overtly blazing out of tune from the second song on, that I hate it every
time I try to sit the record out.

When a solo cello is out of tune, it immediately stops blending with the
other instruments. In orchestras, slight pitch differences make for a
natural 'chorus' effect, which is why orchestras sound so magistral. In a
solo spot, the sound is just wrong.

Other albums where Carter played cello with Dolphy (none of them without
their own problems either...):
Ron Carter/Eric Dolphy quintet: Where?
Mal Waldron: The Quest.

Then, a badly sounding experimental tape floats around with Dolphy/ Carter
duets, some overdubbed. I have heard a small part of this on the LP 'Naima'.
It's weird, bassclarinet and bass only. Ron Carter apparently doesn't want
this tape to be released officially.

On Eric Dolphy/ Booker Little Quintet's Far Cry, Ron Carter plays bass only,
just as the Candid LP Out Front by trumpeter Booker Little.

Regards, Remco


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "David Beardsley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: All about cello, Dolphy and Carter
Date: 18 Feb 2002 07:24:00 -0500

----- Original Message -----

> The 'out there' sessions from later that year surely contain some gems,
but
> I would never go as far as saying they sound great. Ron Carter's playing
is
> so overtly blazing out of tune from the second song on, that I hate it
every
> time I try to sit the record out.
>
> When a solo cello is out of tune, it immediately stops blending with the
> other instruments. In orchestras, slight pitch differences make for a
> natural 'chorus' effect, which is why orchestras sound so magistral. In a
> solo spot, the sound is just wrong.

I was always under the impression those quarter-tones are intentional.


* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Connors recs
Date: 18 Feb 2002 15:25:43 +0100 (CET)

Hi,

I've heard lots of appraisal to Loren Mazzacane
Connors (probably wrong spelling) lately. Any
recommendations? I've only seen the Hatnoir release.
How is it?

Thanks in advance.

Best,

EfrΘn del Valle

_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: All about cello, Dolphy and Carter
Date: 18 Feb 2002 09:32:51 -0500

This is sounding like our Ornette discussion all over again...

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Gil and Jimi
Date: 18 Feb 2002 09:36:22 -0500

I listened to a little bit of the Gil Evans Orchestra to Jimi Hendrix.
What the?  I didn't get it at all.  How is that a tribute to his music?

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Gil and Jimi
Date: 18 Feb 2002 09:34:04 -0500

Gil was a huge fan of JImi.  That album was not entirely successful , in my
opinion (Sanborn lays down the cheese on Angel), but I guess every concert
and album following that 74 date had at least one Hendrix tune on the set
list.  Check out the 'live at Sweet Basil' albums on Grammavision for some
hotter versions of Hendrix material by the Gil Evans orchestra

sean

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Zachary Steiner
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 9:36 AM


I listened to a little bit of the Gil Evans Orchestra to Jimi Hendrix.
What the?  I didn't get it at all.  How is that a tribute to his music?

Zach



-



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Gil and Jimi
Date: 18 Feb 2002 09:55:49 -0500

Zach: You should check out Stephanie Stein Crease's new biography of Gil.
It's an exceptional book in all regards (the first time anyone has
uncovered a lot of the details about his early career) but really provides
a lot of insight into what attracted Gil to Hendrix and how Gil's
orchestra in the '70s and '80s expanded Hendrix's compositions.

And don't judge the Evans/Hendrix connection through the 1974 studio
album; listen to the live versions, especially the long version of "Little
Wing" from the '78 German tour or "Up From The Skies" (featuring Arthur
Blythe and George Adams) from the Royal Festival Hall show earlier in '78.

James

Zachary Steiner wrote:

> I listened to a little bit of the Gil Evans Orchestra to Jimi Hendrix.
> What the?  I didn't get it at all.  How is that a tribute to his music?
>
> Zach
>
> -


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Johnny Ray
Date: 18 Feb 2002 11:12:39 -0500 (EST)

Tosh:

Well, not a fan, but I have an interest in him along
with other peculiarities that existed in the music
biz. My mom first told me about the "Prince of Wails".

Outside of "Cry" I haven't been tempted to get any of
his so-called jazz work. I did read the second-rate
biography done on him a couple of years ago (got it as
a remainder), mostly to find out about Ray's strange
relationships - Dorthy Kilgallen(!) But the author had
so little knowledge of music --and an undisguised
hostility towards jazz -- that in the end in weakened
his own case by overinflating Ray's importance.

Ken Waxman


--- Tosh <[e-mail]> wrote:
> Anyone here on the list a fan of Johnnie Ray?  He
> was the bridge
> between Sinatra and Elvis


=====
Ken Waxman
[e-mail]
www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos

______________________________________________________________________
Web-hosting solutions for home and business! http://website.yahoo.ca

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Connors recs
Date: 18 Feb 2002 09:17:16 -0700



>Loren Mazzacane
>Connors
>I've only seen the Hatnoir release.

that's the right spelling.  I'm one of the advocates...
You can divide his releases into two basic catagories: acoustic and electric
(simple enough?).  He has a distinctive style in each.  After that there's
solo and duo release catagories.  Personally I prefer the solo acoustic
releases including:

Evangeline (road cone)
Portrait of a Soul
Airs
(in my basic order of preferance)

These are pretty available while his solo electric stuff isn't.  If you can
find them some highlights are:

9th Avenue
Hell's Kitchen Park
In Twighlight
(in my basic order of preferance)

The hat noir is the duo with O'Rourke which is the first one I bought and
I'd recommend it.  I also have "two nights" with Alan Licht which I wouldn't
recommend starting with.  One night (the second on the recording) was better
than the other.  The O'Rourke album is consistantly good but I'd recommend
getting a feel for his solo stuff first.  There's also another hat noir
release which I haven't heard (I avoid Thurston Moore...you might differ).
Also, I prefer to avoid things with Suzanne Langile (sp?) - vocals (although
she does make an appearance on "hell's kitchen park")

I've heard good things about "Carmilites" (electric album) and "Little Match
Girl" (acoustic album)
check out www.fe.org if you haven't already....

oh, many of his releases are about 30 min long and some people find this
annoying.  IMO, at his best his albums turn into lengthy suites (as in the
compositional sense of a suite length)....an album comprised of 'shorts' but
which is certainly an album in itself (ala Evangeline).

curious to see other opinions,
Matt




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: brotzmann + Haino + Hano
Date: 18 Feb 2002 11:18:17 -0500 (EST)

Serge:

You mean this wasn't a reunion gig for Hank Marvin and
the others? :)

Ken Waxman

--- serge dautricourt <[e-mail]>
wrote:
> Shadows: Live in Wels (DIW)
> Has anybody heard this cd? any reviews?
>
> serge


=====
Ken Waxman
[e-mail]
www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos

______________________________________________________________________
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From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Johnny Ray
Date: 18 Feb 2002 11:21:21 -0500

Trivia for the day... Dave Holland once played bass with Johnny Ray.

Ken Waxman wrote:

> Outside of "Cry" I haven't been tempted to get any of
> his so-called jazz work.


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From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Johnnie Ray
Date: 18 Feb 2002 08:44:53 -0800

Johnnie Ray I think is very much an under-rated music figure.  And
also quite unique in his 'pop' stance with going on stage with a
hearing aid (which he needed) and that he was very much of a R n' B
singer as well as a total pop figure.  In many ways he reminds me of
Bowie when he gets in his ballad mode. I recently purchased some of
his reissued material - and I thought all of them are  interesting.
For the beginner I suggest the one that Sony put out a couple of
years ago. Also his songwriting is quite quirky in that it deals with
natural elements to describe a particular mood.  Sinatra hated him (I
think more for personal reasons) but it seems Dyan was/is a fan.


--
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com

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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: All about cello
Date: 18 Feb 2002 11:47:02 EST

I don't know what's going on here, I usually think of something and someone
else posts it. I'm very surprise to see that nobody has mentioned Diedre
Murray. She's an excellent cello player who (I think) figured prominently in
Threadgill's Sextett. She did an album with Fred Hopkins in 1994 called
Stringology on Black Saint. Not sure if it's still in print but it's very
good. All the compositions are Murray's and the band features Marvin Sewell
on guitar and Newman Baker on drums. Not too "out". I saw this band and at
the time Diedre said she was working on an ambitious piece based on the book
"They came before Columbus", don't know if she ever released this. It was
really cool to see Fred Hopkins, who is sadly no longer with us.
Also Akua Dixon (sp?) is a great cello player as well. I think she's married
to the great trombonist Steve Turre. Surely someone out there can do better
than me with recs for these two great players. What's up with you people? Of
course, as soon as I post this someone else will mention them. I must return
to lurking, I hate writing about music (however, I love reading about music
so keep up the good work everybody).

BTW- seconds on Fulton Street Maul. Everybody kicks major ass on this record
incl. Frisell.

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From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: All about cello
Date: 18 Feb 2002 12:03:17 -0500

Akua Dixon is indeed married to Steve Turre. She's also a pretty good blues
singer. She was exceptional in a show I caught last summer by violinist
Christian Howes with Billy Hart on drums, Rez Abbasi on guitar and D.D.
Jackson's sometime bassist, John Geggie.


[e-mail] wrote:

> Also Akua Dixon (sp?) is a great cello player as well. I think she's married
> to the great trombonist Steve Turre.


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From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Johnny Ray
Date: 18 Feb 2002 10:02:24 -0800

on 2/18/02 8:12 AM, Ken Waxman at [e-mail] wrote:

> I did read the second-rate
> biography done on him a couple of years ago (got it as
> a remainder), mostly to find out about Ray's strange
> relationships - Dorthy Kilgallen(!) But the author had
> so little knowledge of music --and an undisguised
> hostility towards jazz -- that in the end in weakened
> his own case by overinflating Ray's importance.

The author was Johnny Whiteside, who is not exactly hostile towards jazz but
does not seem to put it at the pinnacle of American accomplishment.  He's
phenomenal when writing about country music, however.  His bio of Rose
Maddox is a keep, and his recent LA WEEKLY cover story on Merle haggard was
one of the best I've read about Hag, who can be as difficult as he is
brilliant, and he is as brilliant as it gets.

skip h

np: Eric Dolphy, OUT TO LUNCH


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From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: dolphy weekend
Date: 18 Feb 2002 10:20:53 -0800

The mention of OUT TO LUNCH motivated me to pull out some Dolphy's for the
first time in a while, and I have come to believe I was right about Eric
Dolphy all along.  He was the David Sanborn of the avant-garde -- the guy
with spotless technique who could play with anyone and fit in completely
while retaining his own style (this is props -- I like Sanborn on other
people's records)  Downside: Dolphy repeats himself a lot.  I remember
transcribing stuff he played over blues and rhythm changes, and he was prone
to doing certain things over and over again (and in different keys -- the
curse of the obsessive practicer).

I pulled out the Mingus stuff, and I think that's overall the best place for
him.  Trane was so fixated on playing one kind of style by the time he
hooked up with Dolphy that, except for OLE, we don't get the widest view
possible of what Dolphy (or anyone else in the quartet +1) could do in a
small group context.  But Mingus really exploited every resource his players
and compositions had to offer.  BLUES & THE ABSTRACT TRUTH is a whole other
thing -- almost an omnibus of jazz soloing styles on the late fifties (with
Bill Evans taking every piano player through the university of how to play
behind such different horn players).

After listening to the Mingus stuff, OUT TO LUNCH actually sounds a little
mannered and intentional to me.  But that could be do to not enough
rehearsal (the tunes are hard), or the players just not yet being quite
comfortable with a new idiom.  It's hard to say anything about records that
bring a lot of new devices to the table.

Years ago, I had a Dolphy album on Everest where he played "Jitterbug Waltz"
on the flute, and I wouldn't mind having that again.  The exuberence of that
performance was just shy of Rahsaan Roland Kirk, and that's never a bad
thing.


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From: "Jesse G. Kudler" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Connors recs
Date: 18 Feb 2002 13:46:45 -0500 (EST)

Hi Matt,
   I'm pretty sure that all the releases you mention are on electric
guitar.  I think the only acoustic stuff that's really available is that
box set on Ecstatic Peace.  The distinction you're making seems to be more
between his clean-toned elctric stuff and the records where he uses a
bunch of distortion.

-Jesse

On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S) wrote:

> You can divide his releases into two basic catagories: acoustic and electric
> (simple enough?).  He has a distinctive style in each.  After that there's
> solo and duo release catagories.  Personally I prefer the solo acoustic
> releases including:
>
> Evangeline (road cone)
> Portrait of a Soul
> Airs
> (in my basic order of preferance)
>
> These are pretty available while his solo electric stuff isn't.  If you can
> find them some highlights are:
>


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From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: dolphy weekend
Date: 18 Feb 2002 13:49:42 -0500

When you say Mingus stuff, what albums do you mean?  Which Mingus/Dolphy
collaborations are you thinking of?  I really enjoy the Live at Antibes,
is this one of the ones are you thinking of or are you thinking of the
Mingus Big Band recordings?

Zach



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From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: dolphy weekend
Date: 18 Feb 2002 11:08:14 -0800

on 2/18/02 10:49 AM, Zachary Steiner at [e-mail] wrote:

> When you say Mingus stuff, what albums do you mean?  Which Mingus/Dolphy
> collaborations are you thinking of?  I really enjoy the Live at Antibes,
> is this one of the ones are you thinking of or are you thinking of the
> Mingus Big Band recordings?
>
> Zach
>
>
All of the above, espec the Impulse stuff (the solo on "Goodbye Porkpie Hat"
is fantastic) and Antibbes.  Also, the George Russell record with "'Round
Midnight".

sh


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From: [e-mail]
Subject: cello
Date: 18 Feb 2002 14:10:21 EST


--part1_b0.2231ebe2.29a2ab9d_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Oscar Pettiford: Sextet, recently reissued on OJC.
Mingus on bass, Oscar on cello, great tunes, killing killing record.

Cheers,
Dave


--part1_b0.2231ebe2.29a2ab9d_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Oscar Pettiford: Sextet, recently reissued on OJC.
<BR>Mingus on bass, Oscar on cello, great tunes, killing killing record.
<BR>
<BR>Cheers,
<BR>Dave
<BR></FONT></HTML>

--part1_b0.2231ebe2.29a2ab9d_boundary--

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From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: All about cello, Dolphy and Carter
Date: 18 Feb 2002 19:14:46 +0000

>From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>

>The 'out there' sessions from later that year surely contain some gems, but
>I would never go as far as saying they sound great. Ron Carter's playing is
>so overtly blazing out of tune from the second song on, that I hate it
>every
>time I try to sit the record out.


Dolphy played on another 'out of tune' 'cello jazz date, the Original
Ellington Suite from Chico Hamilton, with Nate Gershman(?) bowing, some nice
soloing from Eric...

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From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Gil and Jimi
Date: 18 Feb 2002 19:22:59 +0000

>From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Gil and Jimi
>Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:36:22 -0500
>
>I listened to a little bit of the Gil Evans Orchestra to Jimi Hendrix.
>What the?  I didn't get it at all.  How is that a tribute to his music?

That LP was a big disappointment, mainly because John Abercrombie is the
worst possible choice for a guitarist to play on those tunes. But Hendrix
was in discussion with Gil before he died about doing an album of big band
arrangements, and that certainly sounded promising. Otherwise people should
really just leave Hendrix's music alone, it's never worked, and when you get
something like Kennedy ("don't call me Nigel!") doing it, the results are
truly pathetic.

_________________________________________________________________
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From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Gil and Jimi
Date: 18 Feb 2002 14:28:04 -0500

I've heard passable covers by others, including String Trio of New York, and I
still love the version of "Little Wing" by Duane Allman, Eric Clapton & co.
more than the original... though nowhere near as much as Hendrix's live version
originally released on "In The West".

James

thomas chatterton wrote:

> >From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
> >To: <[e-mail]>
> >Subject: Gil and Jimi
> >Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:36:22 -0500
> >
> >I listened to a little bit of the Gil Evans Orchestra to Jimi Hendrix.
> >What the?  I didn't get it at all.  How is that a tribute to his music?
>
> That LP was a big disappointment, mainly because John Abercrombie is the
> worst possible choice for a guitarist to play on those tunes. But Hendrix
> was in discussion with Gil before he died about doing an album of big band
> arrangements, and that certainly sounded promising. Otherwise people should
> really just leave Hendrix's music alone, it's never worked, and when you get
> something like Kennedy ("don't call me Nigel!") doing it, the results are
> truly pathetic.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
> -


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From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: All about cello
Date: 18 Feb 2002 11:37:09 -0800

And for that ECM pretty cello, there's always David Darling.


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From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: dolphy weekend
Date: 18 Feb 2002 19:37:49 +0000

>From: skip heller <[e-mail]>

  He was the David Sanborn of the avant-garde -- the guy
>with spotless technique who could play with anyone and fit in completely
>while retaining his own style (this is props -- I like Sanborn on other
>people's records)  Downside: Dolphy repeats himself a lot.

You're treading on dangerous ground here, mentioning Dolphy and Sanborn
together! While I understand your analogy, I think you're selling Dolphy a
little short, is repetition necessarily a downside? And is he actually
repeating note for note each time? I don't hear that with Dolphy's playing,
but again I'm not a musician transcribing his solos, which may work in my
favour as a listener. After all 'repetition is the soul of creation', is it
a downside with say, James Brown? NRBQ? Chuck Berry? And Dolphy
unfortunately died when he was only 36, my feeling is he was poised to
become a major player (yes, he was a major player anyway, but given 10 more
years?) , and perhaps even surpass 'Trane on the 'spiritual jazz quest'.
Some of my favourite Dolphy playing is from the '61 Europe tour with
Coltrane, especially his alto on Impressions, and the gorgeous bass clarinet
take on Naima...

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From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Gil and Jimi
Date: 18 Feb 2002 14:40:01 -0500

Why was Abercrombie chosen then?  Was he the only one
available/interested?

Zach



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From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Gil and Jimi
Date: 18 Feb 2002 14:32:10 -0500

> Otherwise people should
>really just leave Hendrix's music alone, it's never worked, and when you
get
>something like Kennedy ("don't call me Nigel!") doing it, the results are
>truly pathetic.


there are a couple albums that breathe new life into Hendrix's music (not
that it really needs it..)  One is by Fredy Studer/Christy Doran/Amin
Ali/Django Bates/and Phil Minton ?!?.  they don't necessarily remain
faithful to the originals, and Minton is hilarious.

the other one is by Pinguin Moschner (tuba & electronics) and Joe Sachse
(guitar, played with odd implements like screwdrivers).

fun avant-jazz versions of tunes you know & love.

sean




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From: [e-mail]
Subject: Cello
Date: 18 Feb 2002 14:42:24 EST

Arcado String Trio, with Ernst Reijsenger.  Challenging but not too noisy or
out there.

Tom

______________________________________________________________________
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and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music."

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From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: cello
Date: 18 Feb 2002 14:36:27 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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I just wanted to second the endorsement of Rufus Cappadoccia.  I saw him
play years ago with Orange the Blue, where he was fantastic; and again last
fall with the Paradox Trio where he was absolutely transcendant.  the guy is
a monster with technique to spare.

sean

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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
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wanted to second the endorsement of Rufus Cappadoccia.  I saw him =
play=20
years ago with Orange the Blue, where he was fantastic; and again last =
fall with=20
the Paradox Trio where he was absolutely transcendant.  the guy is =
a=20
monster with technique to spare.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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class=3D418283419-18022002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D418283419-18022002>sean</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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face=3DTahoma></FONT> </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>

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From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: dolphy weekend
Date: 18 Feb 2002 11:57:56 -0800

on 2/18/02 11:37 AM, thomas chatterton at [e-mail] wrote:

>> From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
>
> He was the David Sanborn of the avant-garde -- the guy
>> with spotless technique who could play with anyone and fit in completely
>> while retaining his own style (this is props -- I like Sanborn on other
>> people's records)  Downside: Dolphy repeats himself a lot.
>
> You're treading on dangerous ground here, mentioning Dolphy and Sanborn
> together!
I think Sanborn is one of the great sidemen whose playing everyone knows.  I
was using him as an analog not out of any stylistic thing but because he's
been effective on so many different types of records, be they Paul
Butterfield or Joe Bataan.  And I feel he's criminally underrated as a
player.

> While I understand your analogy, I think you're selling Dolphy a
> little short, is repetition necessarily a downside? And is he actually
> repeating note for note each time?
Yes.  If need be, I can show you where.

> I don't hear that with Dolphy's playing,
> but again I'm not a musician transcribing his solos, which may work in my
> favour as a listener.
It always does.  Bill Evans swore this much as a general rule.

> After all 'repetition is the soul of creation', is it
> a downside with say, James Brown? NRBQ? Chuck Berry?
In James' case, it became a downside after a certain point.  I've never
heard it in NRBQ, except certain periods in their live presentation on
certain tunes that they'd obviously played too often.  In Chuck's case, some
of the Chess album cuts and pretty much any of what he recorded during his
Mercury years are a total example of that, whereas the Chess singles seem
each to be invested with a character of their own fr record to record
(although I am pretty sure this has more to do with the lyrics).


> And Dolphy
> unfortunately died when he was only 36, my feeling is he was poised to
> become a major player (yes, he was a major player anyway, but given 10 more
> years?) , and perhaps even surpass 'Trane on the 'spiritual jazz quest'.
I agree, because he seemed to be investigating -- successfully -- a wide
variety of contexts, which I think is always the "onto my next phase" sign:
restlessness.

skip h


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From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: dolphy weekend
Date: 18 Feb 2002 20:06:41 +0000

>From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
>
>I think Sanborn is one of the great sidemen whose playing everyone knows.
>And I feel he's criminally underrated as a player.

He is, but his own recordings have never helped his cause! That said, isn't
there a session from a few years ago with Sanborn blowing 'out'? I can't
remember it just now...


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From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Gil and Jimi
Date: 18 Feb 2002 15:08:39 -0500

Actually, Abercrombie is not the main guitarist on the recording, and
was not the main player in Gil's band at the time. It was Ryo Kawasaki.
A guy called Keith Loving was also on guitar in the band.

The main thing with Gil throughout his post-war bandleading life was
that he *hated* the business, turned down work constantly if it didn't
interest him and never had any money. The musicians he used were usually
those who really wanted to work with him (so would do it very cheaply)
or those who were cheap to begin with.

So, though Gil may have been wiser to get McLaughlin or someone else who
had more of a feel for Hendrix's music from a guitarist's perspective,
he worked with who he had.

Also, I think he wanted to avoid simply covering Jimi's music; that was
the whole idea behind creating arrangements of the music and using
strong reed players like George Adams and Arthur Bythe as the soloists.

James

Zachary Steiner wrote:

> Why was Abercrombie chosen then?  Was he the only one
> available/interested?
>
> Zach
>
> -


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From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: dolphy weekend
Date: 18 Feb 2002 12:16:35 -0800

on 2/18/02 12:06 PM, thomas chatterton at [e-mail] wrote:

>> From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
>>
>> I think Sanborn is one of the great sidemen whose playing everyone knows.
>> And I feel he's criminally underrated as a player.
>
> He is, but his own recordings have never helped his cause!

You'll notice I said sideman and not leader.

As for more adventurous Sanborn, try his ANOTHER HAND.

sh
>


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From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: dolphy weekend
Date: 18 Feb 2002 15:06:38 -0500

>He is, but his own recordings have never helped his cause! That said, isn't
>there a session from a few years ago with Sanborn blowing 'out'? I can't
>remember it just now...


the album was Another Hand and featured players like Joey Baron, Bill
Frisell, Marc Ribot, Charlie Haden, ARt Baron, Dave Tronzo, and (so as not
to offend Skip by leaving them out) Al Anderson & Terry Adams.  I'm not sure
i'd call it 'blowing "out"', but it's certainly well off the beaten path
from his other releases as a leader.  There's even a VU cover!

to Sanborn's credit, does anyone else remember him playing with the Arkestra
on Night Music?  He and Marshall Allen did a freakout session and Sanborn
held his own.

sean



-



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Gil and Jimi
Date: 18 Feb 2002 20:21:10 +0000

>From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
>
>there are a couple albums that breathe new life into Hendrix's music (not
>that it really needs it..)  One is by Fredy Studer/Christy Doran/Amin
>Ali/Django Bates/and Phil Minton ?!?.

New life? I beg to differ. Cutesy, yes. Novelty value, certainly for a
couple of listens. Eventually, I found all these attempts
ultimately...pointless.  If I want to hear Jimi, I listen to him. And I
would sure love to hear a group like Studer/Doran/Ali/Bates/Minton play
original material. Otherwise...

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From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: dolphy weekend
Date: 18 Feb 2002 12:25:36 -0800

on 2/18/02 12:06 PM, Sean Westergaard at [e-mail] wrote:

> to Sanborn's credit, does anyone else remember him playing with the Arkestra
> on Night Music?  He and Marshall Allen did a freakout session and Sanborn
> held his own.
>
> sean

That was pretty great.  Also, Sanborn and Stanley Turrentine playing "Sugar"
was great.

sh


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Gil and Jimi
Date: 18 Feb 2002 15:24:23 -0500




>If I want to hear Jimi, I listen to him.

me too.

>New life? I beg to differ. Cutesy, yes. Novelty value, certainly for a
>couple of listens.

i think 'cutesy' is a bit much, but is there anything wrong with novelty
value?  I found this release infinitely more interesting than any
rock-oriented tribute to Hendrix that I've heard.

>Eventually, I found all these attempts ultimately...pointless.   -

More or less pointless than another take of 'Round Midnight'? or 'Lonely
Woman' for that matter?

sean


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From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: dolphy weekend
Date: 18 Feb 2002 13:02:36 -0800

>>>Sanborn held his own.<<<

Appropriate image for what Sanborn was doing when playing with
guests on Night Music.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Gil and Jimi
Date: 18 Feb 2002 16:11:13 -0500

I'm still pretty fond of the version of "Up from the Skies" on Susie
Ibarra's 'Radiance' CD, personally... and wasn't violinist Charlie Burnham
also holding down the fiddle chair on the String Trio recording you
mentioned?

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of James Hale
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 2:28 PM

I've heard passable covers by others, including String Trio of New York, and
I
still love the version of "Little Wing" by Duane Allman, Eric Clapton & co.
more than the original... though nowhere near as much as Hendrix's live
version
originally released on "In The West".


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Gil and Jimi
Date: 18 Feb 2002 21:23:28 +0000

>From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
>
I found this release infinitely more interesting than any
>rock-oriented tribute to Hendrix that I've heard.

Actually, there is a rock-oriented tribute to Jimi that is quite
interesting, It's called 'If 6 was 9' and it features people like Bob Weir
and Andy Partridge in pseudonomous(?) mode, doing loving but not necessarily
slavish covers, even a cool lounge version of 'You Got Me Floating'.

>More or less pointless than another take of 'Round Midnight'? or 'Lonely
>Woman' for that matter?

Exactly!

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: dolphy weekend
Date: 18 Feb 2002 16:23:18 -0500

I'm not entirely certain whether you're being serious or whether you're
suggesting that Sanborn was clutching "his own" something else... but I
thought he did a pretty nice job sitting in with the likes of Zorn on that
show (you couldn't really say the same for his bandmates, especially Hiram
Bullock, who couldn't hide his contemptuous amusement udirng "Snagglepuss"),
and could handle the funkier and poppier guests as well. Sanborn's also
quite good playing sopranino on Berne's 'Diminutive Mysteries.' Like Berne,
Sanborn was something of a Hemphill acolyte before he turned to more
populist fare. He's pretty incendiary with some of Gil's latter-day bands,
too, as James pointed out.

A few years back when I was working with Tim, he told me Sanborn realy
wanted to make a blowing disc with Marc Ducret and a Berne rhythm section
for Screwgun, but couldn't ever get permission to do so... 'Another Hand' is
likely to remain the closest he'll come until he's too old to be marketable
to the smooth crowd - not so energetic, but atmospheric and an interesting
departure from his norm. I think 'Night Music' music director Hal Willner
had a lot to do with that disc.

There's a lengthy discussion of great moments from 'Night Music' lurking
somewhere in the Zornlist archives.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of s~Z
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 4:03 PM


>>>Sanborn held his own.<<<

Appropriate image for what Sanborn was doing when playing with
guests on Night Music.


-


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: dolphy weekend
Date: 18 Feb 2002 22:32:32 +0100


> people's records)  Downside: Dolphy repeats himself a lot.  I
Completely true, but it might be because the rleatively little output that
he had, was mainly recorded in 1961, when he was sessioning like mad for
Prestige.

And the live shows that were released, had European rhythm sections: I
gather he played safe on those, I mean playing what he already knew.

remember
> transcribing stuff he played over blues and rhythm changes, and he was
prone
> to doing certain things over and over again (and in different keys -- the
> curse of the obsessive practicer).
Good one.
>
> Years ago, I had a Dolphy album on Everest where he played "Jitterbug
Waltz"
> on the flute, and I wouldn't mind having that again.
You might find it very cheap these days, on cd's with obscure titles like
'Music Matador', 'Conversations' or even 'Jitterbug Waltz'. It's one of
those sessions that don't belong to any major record company. In Europe,
you'll find these even in your local mall, or even at cd-stands of bigger
gas stations on the freeway.

So check every cheapo Dolphy on the back: it might have either the early
Hamilton sessions, or the 1963 sessions with Jitterbug Waltz.

good luck, Remco Takken


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: sanborn does hemphill
Date: 18 Feb 2002 13:31:06 -0800

is it time again to lament that fine jazz show sanborn had on TV? cat
always seemed to have open ears to me. and for a pop jazz guy, did a
helluva lot to give exposure to less mainstream greats.

and this, from msr. roussel's berne discography:

033 - DIMINUTIVE MYSTERIES (MOSTLY HEMPHILL): Tim Berne

    1/ Sounds In The Fog                        (Hemphill)
8:07
    2/ Serial Abstractions                      (Hemphill)
6:24
    3/ Out, The Regular                         (Hemphill)
5:49
    4/ The Unknown                              (Hemphill)
6:47
    5/ Writhing Love Lines                      (Hemphill)
7:16
    6/ Rites                                    (Hemphill)
3:26
    7/ The Maze (For Julius)                    (Berne)
21:18
    8/ Mystery To Me                            (Hemphill)
6:30

    Recorded at Power Station, NYC, September 1992

  Tim Berne: alto, baritone saxophone; David Sanborn: sopranino, alto; Marc
  Ducret: electric guitars; Hank Roberts: cello; Joey Baron: drums; Herb
  Robertson (7): trumpet, cornet, flugelhorn; Mark Dresser (7): bass.

    1993 - JMT, JMT 514 003-2 (CD)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Gil and Jimi
Date: 18 Feb 2002 16:21:23 -0500


>Actually, there is a rock-oriented tribute to Jimi that is quite
>interesting, It's called 'If 6 was 9' and it features people like Bob Weir
>and Andy Partridge in pseudonomous(?) mode, doing loving but not
necessarily
>slavish covers, even a cool lounge version of 'You Got Me Floating'.


I'd say that's easily the best of the rock ones, redeemed totally by the
artists you mentioned:  XTC maquerading as "David Dreams" doing third Stone,
and Henry Kaiser, David Lindley, and (unfortunately) Bob Weir (as Obsequious
Cheesecake) doing If 6 was 9.  i thought the rest of it was rather lame, as
per usual, admitting that i don't recall the You got me Floating track.

sean


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: David Keffer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Loren Mazzacane Connors
Date: 18 Feb 2002 16:41:28 -0500


> [e-mail] wrote:
>I've heard lots of appraisal to Loren Mazzacane  Connors lately. Any
recommendations?

From my own experience, Mazzacane Connors has some good albums and some
dull albums.   He is one artist that you absolutely do not have any need to
be a completist in order to hear his repertoire of styles; there is a lot
of overlap from album to album.

Here for easy digestion, I classify many of the LMC records I have heard
into three colorfully named categories:  tops, fair-to-middlin', and avoid.

tops:
1)  Volume II with Keiji Haino (Menlo Park)  I have never heard anyone say
they didn't like this record.
2)  In Bern with Jim O'Rourke (Hat Hut)
3)  Long Nights (Table of the Elements)  This one has some fine distortion.
4)  Meme Compilation (only 1 track but that track is cool and in fact most
of the songs on the cd are very fine) (Meme)
5)  "George" on Derek Bailey's Playbacks, This is an album of songs remixed
by a number of artists, including the collaboration by Loren and Jim
O'Rourke.  (Bingo)

fair-to-middlin':
1)  Hell's Kitchen Park
2)  Live at DMG with Keiji Haino
3)  MMMR With Thurston Moore, Jean-Marc Montera, Lee Ranaldo
4)  A Possible Dawn (Hat Hut)

avoid:
1)  Avoid all 7 inch records.  I have three or four of these by Connors and
somehow he manages to fit about 30 minutes of music on a 7 inch record and
you would have been perfectly content with a breezy four minute single per
side.
2)  I second the comment of Matthew W Wirzbicki to avoid duets with Suzanne
Langille.  This includes the "Haunted House" ensemble.  She doesn't sing,
as some like to say, "in the traditional sense".
3)  Hoffman Estates (with Licht & O'Rourke et al.)

David K.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: dolphy weekend
Date: 18 Feb 2002 13:41:05 -0800

>>>I'm not entirely certain whether you're being serious or
whether you're
suggesting that Sanborn was clutching "his own" something else...
but I
thought he did a pretty nice job sitting in with the likes of
Zorn<<<

Both of your readings are correct.

My heart always sank when he joined other guests. And, although
Tim Berne is among my favorite artists, I never cared much for
Hemphill, and DM is my least favorite Berne recording. I'm very
thankful that Sanborn had the taste to host such a great show, but
his playing, although technically proficient, lacks something that
I need to enjoy the sound of saxophone. Although I can't put words
to it, Sonny Rollins and Hemphill don't have it either. Berne has
it in spades. And Dolphy.....shit.....Dolphy was what ever it is,
incarnate.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Scheherazade and Shepp
Date: 18 Feb 2002 16:43:56 -0500

It's pretty tough to say that any given version of a piece from classical
standard repertoire is "definitive," since orchestras and conductors can
vary so greatly - or not, as the case may be. Older recordings tend to be a
little more distinctive in their regional quirks - orchestras didn't travel
as much and recordings were't as widespread, so you didn't have the
homogeneity of sound that's prevalent today. Conductors, too, were a widely
varied lot - a Mengelberg 'Scheherazade' wouldn't sound much like a Reiner
'Scheherazade,' since the former tended to freely interpret the music as he
heard it while the other stuck closer to the notes and instructions on the
page. Today, most conductors seem to come from the fairly literal-minded
Reiner school.

Still, it's hard to go wrong with 'Scheherazade,' provided you've got a good
orchestra and violin soloist, and you'll find excellent recordings available
at every price point from super-budget to full price. Sir Thomas Beecham's
1957 recording on EMI is considered a milestone and sounds quite good, but
in the louder sections it shows its age. Reiner's Chicago recording for RCA,
of a similar vintage, is comparable. For a good super-cheap version, the
late Enrique Batiz and the Philharmonia on Naxos is more than just
adequate - his recordings are some of the best on the label. Loris
Tjeknavorian's full-price ASV recording is not as note-perfect as most of
the others, but it deserves mention for its genuine Russian accent, hard to
find in modern recordings. It's bawdy and hyper-emotional, like most of the
conductor's recordings.

But personally, I find the new recording by the Atlanta Symphony Orchestra
and Robert Spano on Telarc to be fairly unbeatable. The orchestra is
terrific, including the first violinist who plays the solo part, and the
recording is spectacular. When I had to turn in a "top ten of 2001" list for
one of the magazines I cover classical stuff for, that disc made the cut -
much to my surprise, actually, given that I didn't really expect a standard
rep recording to grab me quite so much.

What was the Shepp question again?

Steve Smith
[e-mail]


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: David Keffer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Brotzmann + Haino + Hano: Live in Wels
Date: 18 Feb 2002 16:48:06 -0500


>From: "serge dautricourt" <[e-mail]>
>Subject: brotzmann + Haino + Hano
>Shadows: Live in Wels (DIW)
>Has anybody heard this cd? any reviews?

There is a favorable review of the album in the reviews database at:

http://www.planetc.com/users/keffer/haino/index.html

My personal preference is toward the Haino/Hano duet ("A Strange Face" on
Ultra Hard Gel Records) or Haino/Brotzmann duet ("Evolving Blush or Driving
Original Sin" on PSF).  To me the trio seems sort of blurred and
directionless.  But this opinion seems to be in the minority...

David K.




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Scheherazade and Shepp
Date: 18 Feb 2002 16:54:13 -0500

>> What was the Shepp question again?

I had heard that he was a playwright before he turned to music.  I was
curious about his plays.  Did they have the angry free quality of his
music or were they relatively conventional?

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Braxton
Date: 18 Feb 2002 16:57:13 -0500

It's ironic, given all the larger projects they managed to release (like the
four-disc 'Trillium' opera!) that the one project Braxton House never
managed to issue before its current hiatus was the Skopje solo CD announced
at the very beginning. Ironic, and a shame - Braxton student Brandon Evans
said that it was his favorite of all Braxton solo releases. Maybe someday...

I still see the Wesleyan solo disc on Hat frequently enough, but the New
Albion disc '19 (Solo) Compositions 1988' might be even easier to find,
cheaper, and with comparable or even better sound.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
(clearly a Braxton dilettante, with only about 50 discs under his name...)

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Brian Olewnick

I'd also suggest hearing some of the
solo recordings besides 'For Alto'. Some are rare (ones on Impetus, Ring and
Inner City), but you can probably still locate things like the Hat Wesleyan
set around.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Scheherazade and Shepp
Date: 18 Feb 2002 17:02:50 -0500

That's a good question, and one I can't answer. But I think it would be safe
to guess that they did, given the texts he used in some of his earlier
recordings (like "Malcolm, Malcolm... Semper Malcolm"). I do know that at
least one of his plays, Junebug Graduates Tonight! was successfully staged
off-Broadway in 1967.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Zachary Steiner
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 4:54 PM


>> What was the Shepp question again?

I had heard that he was a playwright before he turned to music.  I was
curious about his plays.  Did they have the angry free quality of his
music or were they relatively conventional?

Zach



-


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Across Threads
Date: 18 Feb 2002 14:17:42 -0800

http://www.oliverlake.net/bag.html


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Scheherazade and Shepp
Date: 18 Feb 2002 17:21:31 -0500

on 02.02.18 5:02 PM, Steve Smith at [e-mail] wrote:

> That's a good question, and one I can't answer.
Finally!

We discover your limits!!!

AHA!
RL
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP;
D.S. WARE; COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL;
WORKMAN; Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag...


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Scheherazade and Shepp
Date: 18 Feb 2002 17:26:30 -0500

Touche... ;-)

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 5:22 PM

on 02.02.18 5:02 PM, Steve Smith at [e-mail] wrote:

> That's a good question, and one I can't answer.
Finally!

We discover your limits!!!

AHA!

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: FIMAV 2002 Schedule posted
Date: 18 Feb 2002 18:02:04 -0500

http://www.fimav.qc.ca/programa.html


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: dolphy weekend
Date: 19 Feb 2002 00:45:13 +0100


----- Original Message -----

> After listening to the Mingus stuff, OUT TO LUNCH actually sounds a little
> mannered and intentional to me.  But that could be do to not enough
> rehearsal (the tunes are hard), or the players just not yet being quite
> comfortable with a new idiom.  It's hard to say anything about records
that
> bring a lot of new devices to the table.

You may be right. It sounds mannred in a way. But i just like that
unrehearsed sound, where drums go ways louder then the vibraphone. You hear
the band trying hard to get something - they do not achieve the goal, but
the quest is incredibly exciting. The 'cool free' sound of flute, clarinet,
& vibraphone is exceptional. A kind of sweetness/agression mix that only
'filles de kilimajro' - the best jazz album ever - managed to achieve and go
further. tony william's drumming has somethinfg to do with that... and boy,
what a sound Richard Davis has on that album.
Marcin (who just got back from a very strong  norbert kubacz on bass/ macio
moretti on drums live show)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Johnny Ray
Date: 18 Feb 2002 18:52:45 -0500 (EST)

Skip:

I don't mind that --even if he's wrong. But you gotta
know what you're talking about before putting pen to
paper or finger to keyboard (flamers please note). At
one point in the book, if I remember correctly, he
tries to put down bop -- which to him seems to be the
pinnacle of modernism -- viz a viz Ray by knocking A
Love Supreme, not exactly bop, a saying Ray didn't
need the trappings of supreme love because he already
had love of his own.

It makes more -- or less-- sense when you read it.

Ken




--- skip heller <[e-mail]> wrote:

> The author was Johnny Whiteside, who is not exactly
> hostile towards jazz but
> does not seem to put it at the pinnacle of American
> accomplishment.

=====
Ken Waxman
[e-mail]
www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos

______________________________________________________________________
Web-hosting solutions for home and business! http://website.yahoo.ca

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: dolphy weekend
Date: 18 Feb 2002 15:59:37 -0800

on 2/18/02 3:45 PM, Marcin Gokieli at [e-mail] wrote:

> You may be right. It sounds mannred in a way. But i just like that
> unrehearsed sound, where drums go ways louder then the vibraphone. You hear
> the band trying hard to get something - they do not achieve the goal, but
> the quest is incredibly exciting.

If that band had been playing together as a regular working unit, I think
they'd have been playing that stuff in the most easy, off-handed way.  Look
at what brubeck managed to accomplish.


> 'filles de kilimajro' - the best jazz album ever -

If you don't get flamed for such an unequivocal statement about a record
with actual tracable tempos and chord changes, I'll be shocked.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Scheherazade and Shepp
Date: 18 Feb 2002 19:01:14 -0500 (EST)


Another was called The Communist. Considering Shepp's
stance at the time, I figure they come across as
junior grade LeRoi Jones.

Ken

--- Steve Smith <[e-mail]> wrote:
> That's a good question, and one I can't answer. But
> I think it would be safe
> to guess that they did, given the texts he used in
> some of his earlier
> recordings (like "Malcolm, Malcolm... Semper
> Malcolm"). I do know that at
> least one of his plays, Junebug Graduates Tonight!
> was successfully staged
> off-Broadway in 1967.


=====
Ken Waxman
[e-mail]
www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos

______________________________________________________________________
Web-hosting solutions for home and business! http://website.yahoo.ca

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Johnny Ray
Date: 18 Feb 2002 16:03:55 -0800

on 2/18/02 3:52 PM, Ken Waxman at [e-mail] wrote:

> Skip:
>
> I don't mind that --even if he's wrong. But you gotta
> know what you're talking about before putting pen to
> paper or finger to keyboard (flamers please note). At
> one point in the book, if I remember correctly, he
> tries to put down bop -- which to him seems to be the
> pinnacle of modernism -- viz a viz Ray by knocking A
> Love Supreme, not exactly bop, a saying Ray didn't
> need the trappings of supreme love because he already
> had love of his own.
>
> It makes more -- or less-- sense when you read it.
>
> Ken

I meant more than anything that whatever Whiteside writes about post-Bird
jazz is to be relatively discounted.  He's a helluva nice guy and I feel
compelled to defend him.  And, while his opinions can get in the way, his
scholarship is generally commendable.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: dolphy weekend
Date: 19 Feb 2002 01:11:19 +0000

>From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
>
>If that band had been playing together as a regular working unit, I think
>they'd have been playing that stuff in the most easy, off-handed way.  Look
>at what brubeck managed to accomplish.

I'm somewhat hesitant to bring up this complex subject here, but don't you
think there were some pretty 'obvious' reasons why a Brubeck could
accomplish this...



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: dolphy weekend
Date: 18 Feb 2002 17:17:39 -0800

on 2/18/02 5:11 PM, thomas chatterton at [e-mail] wrote:

>
> I'm somewhat hesitant to bring up this complex subject here, but don't you
> think there were some pretty 'obvious' reasons why a Brubeck could
> accomplish this...
>
Three:

Brubeck was a very skilled bandleader -- enough to keep his personnel in
place for years rather than months

and: The band played often, so developing the music could happen more
readily night in/night out.

Dave is a genius.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music
Date: 18 Feb 2002 20:22:20 EST

In a message dated 2/18/02 1:13:13 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< I think what he's saying is that while the proliferation of boy bands
 doesn't surprise him, he's struck by the number of "alternative" groups
 that seem all to have been cut from the same roll of flannel. >>


Okay-well, that makes a bit more sense.  I was looking at "boy bands" from
the Osmond Brothers/Jackson 5/Boyszone/N'Sync spin than rock bands composed
of males only.

--
np: Oddtoot- Mental Money

=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Avant College Groups
Date: 18 Feb 2002 20:33:05 -0500

I hate to be bothersome again about my little aspirations, but... I'm
looking for a name for my Experimental group.  I'm looking for something
catchy to draw people in, but respectable too.  We toyed with S.E.X.
(Students for Experimental Xpression), but that is pretty unrespectable.
I don't think a college would recognize a group called SEX, let alone
give them any money.  Any ideas?  The Zornlist has proven to be pretty
clever in the past, so I though I'd try.

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: hyyy gbbbb <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Dolphy
Date: 18 Feb 2002 17:37:43 -0800

Sure, Dolphy had his pet licks but not more than all the rest of them.
He strikes me as the kind of guy who'd be very much at home in today's
"downtownish" kind of scenes--where awareness of, and interest in, so many
musics  informs a vibrant creative community. He's arguably a direct
antecedent to someone like Zorn.

And, regarding BLUES AND THE ABSTRACT TRUTH, put almost anyone else in
Dolphy's place and that would be just another better-than-average album.
E.D.'s contributions are a league apart from the other soloists--as great as
they are. To my ears, when E.D. is soloing the music really is transported.

You folks absolutely MUST go back and check out "The Prophet" from Live At
The Five Spot (1961). Dolphy's solo here, with great assistance from Ed
Blackwell,is a tour-de-force.  Traditions encompassing earl bostic, benny
carter, bird merge exuberantly, all the while portending what was soon to
come via braxton and roscoe mitchell.

Also check out the "other" version of Epistrophy with Bennink and Misha, on
the LP ICP 017. A great Lengthy Examination of textural/noisy/extended
techniques on bass clarinet.

And, we all know the 64 european tour with Mingus is the bomb. Many shows
were recorded but definitely GO GET two of the last from that tour:
Wuppertal (on Enja--Mingus In Europe vols.1 and 2)
Stuttgart (on cd at www.rkounique.com and LP on the italian bootleg
uniquejazz label)
Listen to the versions of Fables of Faubus on these two shows--they both
contain virtuosic scintilating bass clarinet outings amidst a turbulent
mingus-style-constant-rearrangement, which, in both cases, includes duets
between Dolphy and Mingus.

If you can find the october 62 live date from the Gaslight Inn  (once again
the itaian bootleg LP labels Ingo or unique jazz)  be sure to check out
Dolphy's extended alto on GW.


Forgive the loquacity but I remain, as ever, an unrepentant completist
Dolphy-ophile. He's almost the only one who can prompt me to wax rhapsodic
in a proseletyzing manner such as this.

Not to drag Ornette back into it but a case might be made that E.D. did as
much to move music forward from WITHIN the chorus form as Ornette did from
without. (and check 'em out playing together on that John lewis date on
Atlantic!)

--graham connah

>
>    skip:
> The mention of OUT TO LUNCH motivated me to pull out some Dolphy's for the
> first time in a while, and I have come to believe I was right about Eric
> Dolphy all along.  He was the David Sanborn of the avant-garde -- the guy
> with spotless technique who could play with anyone and fit in completely
> while retaining his own style (this is props -- I like Sanborn on other
> people's records)  Downside: Dolphy repeats himself a lot.  I remember
> transcribing stuff he played over blues and rhythm changes, and he was prone
> to doing certain things over and over again (and in different keys -- the
> curse of the obsessive practicer).
>
> I pulled out the Mingus stuff, and I think that's overall the best place for
> him.  Trane was so fixated on playing one kind of style by the time he
> hooked up with Dolphy that, except for OLE, we don't get the widest view
> possible of what Dolphy (or anyone else in the quartet +1) could do in a
> small group context.  But Mingus really exploited every resource his players
> and compositions had to offer.  BLUES & THE ABSTRACT TRUTH is a whole other
> thing -- almost an omnibus of jazz soloing styles on the late fifties (with
> Bill Evans taking every piano player through the university of how to play
> behind such different horn players).
>
> After listening to the Mingus stuff, OUT TO LUNCH actually sounds a little
> mannered and intentional to me.  But that could be do to not enough
> rehearsal (the tunes are hard), or the players just not yet being quite
> comfortable with a new idiom.  It's hard to say anything about records that
> bring a lot of new devices to the table.
>
> Years ago, I had a Dolphy album on Everest where he played "Jitterbug Waltz"
> on the flute, and I wouldn't mind having that again.  The exuberence of that
> performance was just shy of Rahsaan Roland Kirk, and that's never a bad
> thing.
>
>
> - -
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of Zorn List Digest V3 #786
> *******************************
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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Dolphy
Date: 18 Feb 2002 17:44:24 -0800

on 2/18/02 5:37 PM, hyyy gbbbb at [e-mail] wrote:

> And, regarding BLUES AND THE ABSTRACT TRUTH, put almost anyone else in
> Dolphy's place and that would be just another better-than-average album.
> E.D.'s contributions are a league apart from the other soloists--as great as
> they are. To my ears, when E.D. is soloing the music really is transported.

I'm an unaplogetic Bill Evans guy on this one and most others.  and I really
feel it was BE who pulled that album together.  OR ELSE!!


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Dolphy
Date: 18 Feb 2002 17:46:14 -0800

on 2/18/02 5:44 PM, skip heller at [e-mail] wrote:

> I'm an unaplogetic Bill Evans guy on this one and most others.  and I really
> feel it was BE who pulled that album together.  OR ELSE!!
>

sorry -- that was supposed to be for graham alone

sh


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Across Threads (BAG article)
Date: 18 Feb 2002 20:37:44 -0600

s~Z wrote: http://www.oliverlake.net/bag.html

Thanks for forwarding the link for the BAG article.  I've heard occasional
stories about BAG performances, but the article reproduced on Lake's site is
the most extensive history of them I've seen.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Thomas Choate <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: dolphy weekend
Date: 18 Feb 2002 19:41:07 -0800 (PST)

it always felt intentional to me, in a great
way...like tension, push and shove.
one of the first 'jazz' records i bought..and still
looking for more of that sound. i have his illinois
live, and the 4 cd village vangaurd/trane, completely
different stuff.
can anyone enlighten me to some of the process? or is
it just the combo of people in the setting?
or any other records with the tension/free/composed
vibe?

amor fati,
square thomas


--- skip heller <[e-mail]> wrote:
> The mention of OUT TO LUNCH motivated me to pull out
> some Dolphy's for the
> first time in a while, and I have come to believe I
> was right about Eric
> Dolphy all along.  He was the David Sanborn of the
> avant-garde -- the guy
> with spotless technique who could play with anyone
> and fit in completely
> while retaining his own style (this is props -- I
> like Sanborn on other
> people's records)  Downside: Dolphy repeats himself
> a lot.  I remember
> transcribing stuff he played over blues and rhythm
> changes, and he was prone
> to doing certain things over and over again (and in
> different keys -- the
> curse of the obsessive practicer).
>
> I pulled out the Mingus stuff, and I think that's
> overall the best place for
> him.  Trane was so fixated on playing one kind of
> style by the time he
> hooked up with Dolphy that, except for OLE, we don't
> get the widest view
> possible of what Dolphy (or anyone else in the
> quartet +1) could do in a
> small group context.  But Mingus really exploited
> every resource his players
> and compositions had to offer.  BLUES & THE ABSTRACT
> TRUTH is a whole other
> thing -- almost an omnibus of jazz soloing styles on
> the late fifties (with
> Bill Evans taking every piano player through the
> university of how to play
> behind such different horn players).
>
> After listening to the Mingus stuff, OUT TO LUNCH
> actually sounds a little
> mannered and intentional to me.  But that could be
> do to not enough
> rehearsal (the tunes are hard), or the players just
> not yet being quite
> comfortable with a new idiom.  It's hard to say
> anything about records that
> bring a lot of new devices to the table.
>
> Years ago, I had a Dolphy album on Everest where he
> played "Jitterbug Waltz"
> on the flute, and I wouldn't mind having that again.
>  The exuberence of that
> performance was just shy of Rahsaan Roland Kirk, and
> that's never a bad
> thing.
>
>
> -
>


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: New Music for Early Instruments in RealAudio, Mappings for the
Date: 18 Feb 2002 22:41:43 -0600

Hi y'all,

This week on Mappings <http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/>,
you'll hear music for recorders, forte-pianos, harpsichords and the
like, by composers Louis Andriessen, Luciano Berio, Allison Cameron,
Evelyn Ficarra, Peter Hannan, Mauricio Kagel, and Gyorgy Ligeti.

The show went online Monday evening around 10:00 PM (-0600 GMT) and
will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program
(featuring works by Ruth Crawford Seeger & Johanna M Beyer) is still
available in the Mappings archive
<http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/index1.htm>, where you
can also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998.

With luck this week Antenna Radio REALLY will be moving to a new
server, with a slightly different hierarchy for the Web site. The
URLs above should work for the next week or two though.

Hope you tune in to the program; see you online.

Bests,

Herb

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: dolphy weekend
Date: 19 Feb 2002 05:17:30 +0000

>From: skip heller <[e-mail]>


>Three:
>
>Brubeck was a very skilled bandleader -- enough to keep his personnel in
>place for years rather than months
>
>and: The band played often, so developing the music could happen more
>readily night in/night out.
>
>Dave is a genius.

...and he's white!

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: dolphy weekend
Date: 18 Feb 2002 21:29:39 -0800

on 2/18/02 9:17 PM, thomas chatterton at [e-mail] wrote:

>> From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
>
>
>> Three:
>>
>> Brubeck was a very skilled bandleader -- enough to keep his personnel in
>> place for years rather than months
>>
>> and: The band played often, so developing the music could happen more
>> readily night in/night out.
>>
>> Dave is a genius.
>
> ...and he's white!
>
I don't think that particularly assured him any success.  He cancelled a ton
of gigs where he was asked to bring a white bass player and not Gene Wright.
But given that Dave's fans included Mingus, Miles, and Ellington, I don't
think they had a problem with his being white.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: dolphy weekend
Date: 19 Feb 2002 00:43:02 -0500

Dave's record on the subject of civil rights is well documented,
particularly as regards his defense of Gene Wright's position in the band.
His reflection on racism in Ken Burns' series was one of the more genuinely
poignant moments in the entire production. Race probably played no role at
all in the longevity of his classic quartet - but it probably played a
significant role in the ability of Columbia Records to market him to a
mainstream audience.

Add Cecil Taylor and Anthony Braxton to the list of ardent admirers.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]

-----Original Message-----
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of skip heller

>> Dave is a genius.
>
> ...and he's white!
>
I don't think that particularly assured him any success.  He cancelled a ton
of gigs where he was asked to bring a white bass player and not Gene Wright.
But given that Dave's fans included Mingus, Miles, and Ellington, I don't
think they had a problem with his being white.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: dolphy
Date: 19 Feb 2002 09:59:37 +0100

----- Original Message -----

> After listening to the Mingus stuff, OUT TO LUNCH actually sounds a little
> mannered and intentional to me.  But that could be do to not enough
> rehearsal (the tunes are hard), or the players just not yet being quite
> comfortable with a new idiom.  It's hard to say anything about records
that
> bring a lot of new devices to the table.

You may be right. It sounds mannred in a way. But i just like that
unrehearsed sound, where drums go ways louder then the vibraphone. You hear
the band trying hard to get something - they do not achieve the goal, but
the quest is incredibly exciting. The 'cool free' sound of flute, clarinet,
& vibraphone is exceptional. A kind of sweetness/agression mix that only
'filles de kilimajro' - the best jazz album ever - managed to achieve and go
further. tony william's drumming has somethinfg to do with that... and boy,
what a sound Richard Davis has on that album.
Marcin (who just got back from a very strong  norbert kubacz on bass/ macio
moretti on drums live show)



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: dolphy weekend
Date: 19 Feb 2002 10:16:58 +0100


----- Original Message -----

> If that band had been playing together as a regular working unit, I think
> they'd have been playing that stuff in the most easy, off-handed way.
Look
> at what brubeck managed to accomplish.

And what live discs we could have...

> > 'filles de kilimajro' - the best jazz album ever -
> If you don't get flamed for such an unequivocal statement about a record
> with actual tracable tempos and chord changes, I'll be shocked.

C'mon Skip, everyone knows it's the best.
I'm not very serious here, of course, but in my private top jazz chart it's
certanly the no1. (with Bitches Brew, Big Fun, Dark Magus, Black Beauty, In
a silent way, get up with it fighting fo rthe second spot, and out to lunch
being third). For me those albums are like a part of family. I do not feel
that towards any coltrane, coleman, ayler, or whoever.
To bring flames: ain't "mlle mabry" the most beautiful jazz tune ever? BTW,
are there any covers of the song?
Marcin (who can't wait to see the Real Madrid - Fc porto thsi evening. At
least champions league has won over the winter - although the battle has
been hard this year... ok you americans won't get how important it is;-)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: "Filles de Silent Brew"
Date: 19 Feb 2002 10:50:21 +0100



Marcin Gokieli a =E9crit :

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "skip heller" <velaires@earthlink=2Enet>
>
> > > 'filles de kilimajro' - the best jazz album ever -
> > If you don't get flamed for such an unequivocal statement about a record
> > with actual tracable tempos and chord changes, I'll be shocked=2E
>
> C'mon Skip, everyone knows it's the best=2E
> I'm not very serious here, of course, but in my private top jazz chart it'=
s
> certanly the no1=2E (with Bitches Brew, Big Fun, Dark Magus, Black Beauty,=
 In
> a silent way, get up with it fighting fo rthe second spot, and out to lunc=
h
> being third)=2E For me those albums are like a part of family=2E I do not =
feel
> that towards any coltrane, coleman, ayler, or whoever=2E
> To bring flames: ain't "mlle mabry" the most beautiful jazz tune ever? BTW=
,
> are there any covers of the song?

My personal fave is "Frelon brun (brown hornet)"=2E Tony's beat and those fu=
nk
clusters do it to me just right=2E Deconstructed James Brown=2E
Weather Report/Joe Zawinul is to me the band/artist that best kept and lived
up to this spirit of open-ended deconstructed ambiguous funk=2E In fact the
electric Miles albums featuring Z=2E ("Silent", "Brew", "Corner") fare a few
notches higher in my private pantheon than those without=2E

Was interested to learn from the "In a silent way Sessions" liner notes that
Mlle Mabry" was to such an extent a Hendrix homage=2E Seems very obvious to =
my
ears now=2E But don't take that to mean that I think it takes away from the
worth of this track=2E Hendrix himself got his inspiration from so and so, e=
tc=2E
ad infinitum=2E

Best,
DY=2E


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "Filles de Silent Brew"
Date: 19 Feb 2002 13:07:38 +0100


----- Original Message -----

DY: My personal fave is "Frelon brun (brown hornet)". Tony's beat and those
funk
clusters do it to me just right. Deconstructed James Brown.


*** another one I like very  much is 'tout de suite'. this punctate beat is
just killing. the band goes into wild abstraction, and TW is clearly the
main mad man.


DY: Weather Report/Joe Zawinul is to me the band/artist that best kept and
lived
up to this spirit of open-ended deconstructed ambiguous funk.


*** I do not rate WR high, although i must say that i have only one of their
records -  'i sing the body electric'. side one is interesting, but side 2
does not convince me. I like Vitous's sound on that album. Miles albums of
that time are IMHO much more interesting.


DY: up to this spirit of open-ended deconstructed ambiguous funk. In fact
the
electric Miles albums featuring Z. ("Silent", "Brew", "Corner") fare a few
notches higher in my private pantheon than those without.

*** It's funny to see the how zawinul's arrival changed the band - we can
see it very clearly now thanks to the in a silent way box. In my opinion
it's his sound that was decisive, not the compositions.

DY:
Was interested to learn from the "In a silent way Sessions" liner notes that
Mlle Mabry" was to such an extent a Hendrix homage. Seems very obvious to my
ears now.

*** I didn't read the notes that carefully, so i did not find the quote
(btw: there were some problems with buying it in poland, and it arrived only
a few days after the relase date. I terrorized many shop owners/clerks
during that sad period ;-)). But it does make sense.

Best,
Marcin Gokieli





-



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Nino Rota
Date: 19 Feb 2002 23:08:05 +1100

Just curious, in all of Zorn's many soundtrack covers, has he ever done any
Nino Rota?

Also, any recommendations of people playing Rota's stuff? I know of a few
including The Club Foot Orchestra (good, perhaps a little straight) and the
Hal Willner production "Amarcord Nino Rota" (a few standout tracks, but
mostly pretty average). Any more noteworthy Rota covers out there?


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Brubeck
Date: 19 Feb 2002 06:34:03 -0600


>  >From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
>
>
>  >Three:
>  >
>  >Brubeck was a very skilled bandleader -- enough to keep his personnel in
>  >place for years rather than months
>  >
>  >and: The band played often, so developing the music could happen more
>  >readily night in/night out.
>  >
>  >Dave is a genius.
>
>...and he's white!

There were lots of predominately white bands that didn't get over at
the time, & Brubeck frequently took a lot of grief and lost gigs for
having an integrated band, so that's nowhere near a sufficient
explanation for much of anything. It certainly didn't hurt in some
areas of marketing the band, but Miles Davis, MJQ, Duke Ellington,
Oscar Peterson and many Black jazz musicians were continually playin
goto large audiences, and making VERY good money, at the time too.

In addition to Skip's list, I'd add that Brubeck was very
aggressively marketed to college & university audiences at a time
when jazz still had more than a vestige of pop music credibility. In
this way the band built a strong base among an audience that (like
most young audiences - look at all the fans of Sinatra, Presley,
Beatles, etc. of a certain age who never got past their high
school/college idols) wasn't going to keep changing their taste very
much longer.

Bests,

Herb
--
Herb Levy
Mappings on Antenna Internet Radio
<http://www.antennaradio/avant/mappings/>
[e-mail]

Mappings  P O Box 9369  Forth Wort, TX 76147  USA

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "Filles de Silent Brew"
Date: 19 Feb 2002 16:14:16 +0100



Marcin Gokieli a =E9crit :

> *** I do not rate WR high, although i must say that i have only one of the=
ir
> records -  'i sing the body electric'=2E side one is interesting, but side=
 2
> does not convince me=2E I like Vitous's sound on that album=2E Miles album=
s of
> that time are IMHO much more interesting=2E

Try the 1rst ("Weather Report"), 3rd ("Sweetnighter": "Boogie-woogie waltz" =
is
a Z-funk high point), 4th ("Mysterious Traveler", with contrasts worthy of
Mahler or the Beatles)=2E=2E=2E

> DY: up to this spirit of open-ended deconstructed ambiguous funk=2E In fac=
t
> the
> electric Miles albums featuring Z=2E ("Silent", "Brew", "Corner") fare a f=
ew
> notches higher in my private pantheon than those without=2E
>
> *** It's funny to see the how zawinul's arrival changed the band - we can
> see it very clearly now thanks to the in a silent way box=2E In my opinion
> it's his sound that was decisive, not the compositions=2E

What about his "Pharaoh's Dance" which opens up "Bitches Brew"? An all-time
musical/Miles high, Imho=2E=2E=2E

> DY:
> Was interested to learn from the "In a silent way Sessions" liner notes th=
at
> Mlle Mabry" was to such an extent a Hendrix homage=2E Seems very obvious t=
o my
> ears now=2E
>
> *** I didn't read the notes that carefully, so i did not find the quote
> (btw: there were some problems with buying it in poland, and it arrived on=
ly
> a few days after the relase date=2E I terrorized many shop owners/clerks
> during that sad period ;-))=2E But it does make sense=2E

p=2E34 :(from the booklet)"=2E=2E=2Epays homage to Jimi hendrix's"The wind c=
ries Mary"=2E
Certain chord movements imply Hendrix's song, but then the composition takes=
 a
totally different direction=2E"

Best,
DY=2E


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Johnny (Johnnie) Ray
Date: 19 Feb 2002 07:55:17 -0800

Hi,

I have read the book and thought it was pretty interesting.  I didn't
catch the jazz part in the book, maybe I was sleep-reading at the
time.  But one point I think we should make clear is that Johnny is
not the spelling of Johnnie Ray's name.  It's spelled Johnnie.  He
consistently had his name mispelled - including on the first
Portishead album -where they mispelled his name when giving credit to
a sample.

But on another note, Ray was really an interesting music person.  The
biography made me check out his music - but I was also intrigued by
Morrissey's tribute to him during his Smith years - by having his
photo taken with a hearing aid.  And then there was those great
photos of him on stage during the 50's.
--
--
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Brubeck
Date: 19 Feb 2002 08:42:27 EST


--part1_39.229f337d.29a3b043_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 2/19/02 7:34:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail]
writes:


> In addition to Skip's list, I'd add that Brubeck was very
> aggressively marketed to college & university audiences at a time
> when jazz still had more than a vestige of pop music credibility.

When I was reading about this part of Brubeck's career in his biography not
too long ago, I could think of nothing comparable so much as Phish.

Dale.

--part1_39.229f337d.29a3b043_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c0c0c0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">In a message dated 2/19/02 7:34:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">In addition to Skip's list, I'd add that Brubeck was very <BR>
aggressively marketed to college & university audiences at a time <BR>
when jazz still had more than a vestige of pop music credibility. </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c0c0c0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BR>
When I was reading about this part of Brubeck's career in his biography not too long ago, I could think of nothing comparable so much as Phish.<BR>
<BR>
Dale.</FONT></HTML>

--part1_39.229f337d.29a3b043_boundary--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Nino Rota
Date: 19 Feb 2002 08:02:09 -0800

I like Fantomas' cover of the Godfather theme in their new album 'The
Director's Cut'.
--
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: loren, eric, deidre, jimi and anthony
Date: 19 Feb 2002 17:05:05 +0000

in no particular order.

since it was asked, loren's fairly particular about the caps in his name
(and i shall now labor over toward the shift key). Loren MazzaCane Connors.
i don't exactly recall, but the middle name comes from a grandmother, i
believe.

dolphy and mingus? "mingus presents mingus". nuff said.

skip, you shed new light on 'out to lunch' for me, and i kind of resent it.
i've always thought there was an interesting sterility to it, but i've never
considered it a shortcoming. if i don't get over it, there'll be hell to
pay.

i'm not sure if "stringology" is in print, but the superior "firestorm"
(diedre/fred duo) on victo is. yeah, she's great. also interesting is naomi
millender, who plays with ed wilkerson's 8 bold souls, a sextett heir
apparent. i'll also here give props to my friend okkyung lee, who's been
playing with the zorn improvs lately, and really has her own voice on the
instrument. (she's playing weds at tonic, if i might go overboard.)

for jimi covers, the christy doran et al 'plays the music of jimi hendrix'
is pretty good, but i'm surprised no one has mentioned robert dick's sublime
'third stone from the sun.'

don't remember who was looking for braxton's circle, or where in the world
they lived, but there's a used sealed copy at kim's on st. marks (or there
was monday) for $12.

kurt

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: jimi
Date: 19 Feb 2002 12:04:38 -0500



>for jimi covers, the christy doran et al 'plays the music of jimi hendrix'
>is pretty good, but i'm surprised no one has mentioned robert dick's
sublime
>'third stone from the sun.'


AAARGH! where's my brain? i just played that on the radio not 3 weeks ago!
Good call Kurt.  that one's got some great stuff on it, especially the cover
of Pali Gap.

sean


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: brotz, hain and han
Date: 19 Feb 2002 17:31:07 +0000

i'll give an up for 'shadows.'

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Franz Fuchs" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Braxton
Date: 19 Feb 2002 18:52:19 +0100

> On behalf Of Steve Smith
>
> It's ironic, given all the larger projects they managed to
> release (like the four-disc 'Trillium' opera!) that the one
> project Braxton House never managed to issue before
> its current hiatus was the Skopje solo CD announced
> at the very beginning.

Does someone know the reason for this "interruption of service"? The
webpage hasn't been updated for a very long time, too.

In the recommendations for John every genre (solo, duo, quartet,
standards) within Braxton's ouevre has been mentioned with the sole
exception of his orchestral works, which are probably dearest to his
heart. My choice in this regard is "Composition 96" (Leo), although I
also like very much "2 compositions (ensemble) 1989/1991" (hatART) and
"Comp. 165" (New Albion).

If you'd be particular there are another two (sub-)sections of his work
that are left: Braxton as pianist and his "Ghost Trance Musics".
The first of these is most likely an aquired taste, but nevertheless
interesting, not the least for conceptual reasons. I recommend "Seven
Standards     1995" (Knitting Factory Works) which has Mario Pavone as
co-leader; Dave Douglas, Thomas Chapin and Pheeroan Ak Laff complete
this band.

The "Ghost Trance Music" is embarrassingly underrepresented in my
collection, but "Four Compositions (Washington D.C.) 1995" on the
"Braxton House" label received some well-meaning reviews.

Apart from that, "Compositions 10 & 16 (+101)" (hatART) is fantastic!
It's one of the rare occasions that Braxton's scores are played without
his involvement. The arrangements of Art Lange and the musicians
(Guillermo Gregorio, Carrie Biolo, Michael Cameron, Gene Coleman and Jim
O'Rourke) truly shine.

Regards
Franz Fuchs

PS: An extensive and relative recent interview with Braxton can be found
at http://mheffley.web.wesleyan.edu/ (link provided by Jason Guthartz).
If I haven't miscalculated  the whole "thing" amounts to ~70 000 words!
It's certainly this sheer mass that has hindered an appropriate
discussion on the Braxton list.

As much as I admire Anthony, his jargon still bothers me. Dare I say
that his "terminological furor" sometimes seems like a dead end? Maybe
"bother" isn't the right word and I should substitute it with "worry",
because "Braxtonspeak" has a tendency towards insularity (e.g.
"quadrant-specific coalition politics" (!) on the first page of said
interview) and a Heideggerian quality to it, albeit - and of course -
with totally different politics. I don't want to overdramatize - maybe
it's just a combination of adult reflection with a childlike joy for
inventing words ;-)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: dolphy weekend
Date: 19 Feb 2002 10:02:15 -0800


On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:06:38 -0500  "Sean Westergaard" wrote:
>
> to Sanborn's credit, does anyone else remember him playing with the Arkestra
> on Night Music?  He and Marshall Allen did a freakout session and Sanborn
> held his own.

And what about a steaming solo on Priestess by the Gil Evans Orchestra (not to
forget Arthur's one also)?

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jeni Dahmus" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Question about RE: Eyvind Kang
Date: 19 Feb 2002 13:03:39 -0500

Matthew W Wirzbicki wrote:

here's a review from opprobrium which makes this album sound really
good. Has anyone heard it?

(more reviews at
http://www.info.net.nz/opprobrium/html/online/2/e2.html)

EYVIND KANG/DYLAN VAN DER SCHYFF/FRANCOIS HOULE Pieces Of Time CD
[Spool]Messrs Kang, van der Schyff & Houle have produced a great rarity:
the free improvised disc with near-zero dead spots, awkward transitions,
or passages that go on long after the idea's been exhausted. What a joy
this is, from start to finish. The variety is sumptuous: the range of
instrument approaches, the ease from melody to dissonance and from
arrhythmic meters to head-swaying grooves, and the constant
resourcefulness of all three players. The album is filled with stunning
sequences: the climax of #1, where Kang's violin and Houle's clarinet
build up to a storm-warning siren; the opening of #2 (the aftermath?)
with its dripping-rain notes from Kang and percussionist van der Schyff;
the brief appearance of Houle's uncredited wood-flute; the switch to an
Asian mode, with Kang's dancing-pitch bowing, which crosses with a
Sephardic melody from Houle; the quiet flurry of Houle's
circular-breathed low tones while Kang and Schyff explore their
instruments' higher registers; Kang's canine whimpers... I could go on
and on. The copyright on this disc says 1999, but if it's as new to you
as it is to me, pick it up and see if doesn't make your best-of-2001
list. -James Lindbloom
--------------

The review above is an accurate description. Simply sublime and highly
recommended.=20

Sweetness of Sickness is my absolute favorite Kang CD: funky
instrumentations, wild string passages, unique arrangements, sound
effects, distortion, noise, and a sense of humor. Kang even throws in a
piece by Manuel de Falla. The packaging is nice, with cover art by Jesse
Paul Miller, an inside diagram by Kang, and a cute little violin on the
bright pink CD. The liner notes indicate that the piece "Vapors" was
originally recorded as a soundtrack for Nikki Appino's film entitled
Threshold. Has anyone seen this?

I also recommend In the Path of Love, improvisations on classical
Persian and Indian music by Kang (viola) and Persian music expert Amir
Koushkani (tar). Recorded at Bear Creek Studios outside of Seattle, the
album includes four unedited dialogues between viola and tar. The liner
notes are extensive, with quotes from the musicians, photos, and a
description of the tar: "The instrument Amir plays in the present
recording is the "tar," which has three double strings. A brass pick is
used to pluck them. The body of the tar is carved from a block of
mulberry wood and incorporates a sound-table made of delicate lambskin
membranes, and has 28 movable frets. It has a range of two octaves and a
fifth." Koushkani notes that he "used a somewhat less conventional
system of tuning for Tar together with a modified performance technique
to create an unusual blend of three different Magham." I would love to
see the Kang and Koushkani duo perform live. I heard they played at the
Freer/Sackler Gallery in DC and the Asian American Jazz Festival in
Chicago.=20

Another favorite is MBEK with bassist Michael Bisio and Kang on violin.
The CD is comprised of improvised duets, ranging from chaotic to
folk-like. The first track is an arrangement of Coltrane's Seraphic
Light. Splendid.

I enjoy Kang's Tzadik releases as well. At first I found some parts
cheesy, then they grew on me. The melodies (NADES) stick with you.
Kang's output is quite diverse, everything from beautiful melodies to
totally "out" improvisations. Each time I've seen him perform, he has
done something different. If you were disappointed in one of his
performances, check him out again and you might be surprised. During the
fall of 1999, he spent the first half hour of his Tonic gig
philosophizing with the audience. Some people were completely pissed
off...personally I enjoyed it.

Recently I got We's Square Root of Negative One, an
ambient/dub/electronica album featuring Kang, Danny Blume, Carolyn
Honeychild Coleman, Chris Kelly, Gen Ken and La Scuola / 2nd grade, Raz
Badawi Mesinai, and Ouk Wurmly. Yet another completely different Kang
project.

A Kang discography can be found here:
http://www.geocities.com/kanggallery/

Jeni

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: "Filles de Silent Brew"
Date: 19 Feb 2002 13:14:12 -0500

I never really got Filles.  I place it well below In a Silent Way (which
I'm not fond of) and way below Bitches Brew.  I think that it could be
my least favorite Miles album that I have heard.  I just think that it
sounds awkward.  Miles's trumpet played seemed really tired and
hackneyed throughout.  Shorter's sax didn't sound as good as it did on
later or earlier albums.  The rhythm section seems tentative and
awkward, with the exception of Tony Williams.  It seems like a bad
transition between the quintet and electric bands, not being as good as
either the former or the latter.  I was initially disappointed with it
and I checked it out again last night after reading recommendations.  I
thought I may have been missing something, but I don't think so now.
Who knows I could still be missing something.

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Avant College Groups
Date: 19 Feb 2002 10:25:50 -0800


On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:33:05 -0500  "Zachary Steiner" wrote:
>
> I hate to be bothersome again about my little aspirations, but... I'm
> looking for a name for my Experimental group.  I'm looking for something
> catchy to draw people in, but respectable too.  We toyed with S.E.X.
> (Students for Experimental Xpression), but that is pretty unrespectable.
> I don't think a college would recognize a group called SEX, let alone
> give them any money.  Any ideas?  The Zornlist has proven to be pretty
> clever in the past, so I though I'd try.

That's strange. Usually coming up with a name is the simplest thing. In
fact some bands have a hard time to go beyond this achievement :-).

    Patrice.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Brubeck
Date: 19 Feb 2002 11:38:22 -0800

on 2/19/02 4:34 AM, Herb Levy at [e-mail] wrote:

> In addition to Skip's list, I'd add that Brubeck was very
> aggressively marketed to college & university audiences at a time
> when jazz still had more than a vestige of pop music credibility

Actually, it was Dave's wife Iola who developed that circuit, which didn't
really exist in a unified way until the DBQ cracked it open.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: loren, eric, deidre, jimi and anthony
Date: 19 Feb 2002 11:41:26 -0800

on 2/19/02 9:05 AM, Kurt Gottschalk at [e-mail] wrote:

> skip, you shed new light on 'out to lunch' for me, and i kind of resent it.
> i've always thought there was an interesting sterility to it, but i've never
> considered it a shortcoming. if i don't get over it, there'll be hell to
> pay.

Again, I think if that had been a working band used to playing that way and
used to those kinds of compositions, it would have been a universal
watershed instead of one that some people get and some people don't.  The
sterility you're sensing sounds to me like those  guys working hard to read
the music.

sh


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Chris Selvig <[e-mail]>
Subject: Dolphy weekend
Date: 19 Feb 2002 11:50:55 -0800

I'll second recommendations for "Mingus at Antibes."  Not only is it a
great record, but it was the first place I heard Mingus - a friend of mine
in high school borrowed my copy of "Double Nickels on the Dime," lost it,
and to make up for losing it bought me a copy of "Antibes." If everyone was
that gracious, I'd still lend records to people... I'm also a big fan of
"Mingus Presents Mingus," on Candid - Mingus and Dolphy do a mind-bendingly
weird "argument" for several minutes of "What Love," one of the moments
that makes improv great.

Chris Selvig


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "Filles de Silent Brew"
Date: 19 Feb 2002 20:44:04 +0100


Zachary Steiner a =E9crit :

> I never really got Filles=2E  I place it well below In a Silent Way (which
> I'm not fond of) and way below Bitches Brew=2E  I think that it could be
> my least favorite Miles album that I have heard=2E  I just think that it
> sounds awkward=2E

It is indeed a very singular album with a unique place in Miles' dicography
/ evolution=2E It's not straight jazz while being neither funk nor rock=2E I
grant you it's strange and has almost no legacy (except for some early
Weather Report, which is pretty good=2E=2E)=2E
But then think of Beethoven's Grosse Fugue, the Beatles' "I am the Walrus",
Dylan's "Sad-eyed lady of the lowlands", or any number of unusual,
unclassifiable or transitional works=2E When you get tired of all the rest,
you might be grateful it's there to get into=2E=2E=2E

>  Miles's trumpet played seemed really tired and
> hackneyed throughout=2E  Shorter's sax didn't sound as good as it did on
> later or earlier albums=2E  The rhythm section seems tentative and
> awkward, with the exception of Tony Williams=2E

Some exception! This album is known as a kind of concerto for Williams=2E

>  It seems like a bad
> transition between the quintet and electric bands, not being as good as
> either the former or the latter=2E  I was initially disappointed with it
> and I checked it out again last night after reading recommendations=2E  I
> thought I may have been missing something, but I don't think so now=2E
> Who knows I could still be missing something=2E

(see above)

Best,
DY=2E



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 19 Feb 2002 12:20:08 -0800


On Sun, 17 Feb 2002 10:19:18 +0100  "Marcin Gokieli" wrote:
>
>  I often wonder what makes music that sounds well after 200 yers better then
> such that is valid only in given cultural circumstances. If there's a link
> between time and value, i'd be glad to know what does it consist in, because
> it's far from being clear. I'd think that it's just one of the positivist
> myths about the value of art - some kind of 'objective' criterion that was
> made up somewhere, and became so widely accepted that nobody pays attention
> anymore to whether it makes any sense or not.
> You wrote that we should let the time decide what is art or not - I think
> that time will only decide about time, and that's all.

OK, if you prefer we can say that after some water has passed under the
bridges, we can expect a judgement that is more focused on what is truly
"artistic", as opposed as to all the artifacts surrounding creation (fad,
trend, biased opinions from people having financial interest, etc). That
might be not perfect but it has at least some elements of objectivity (or
to use a more careful understatement: less elements of subjectivity).

Regardless of the few critics, KIND OF BLUE is more likely to stand the test
of time than 99% of what was released last year (and I consider that 1% is
quite a high number for something that is supposed to mean anything to more
than a handful of people in 30 years).

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: the muff <[e-mail]>
Subject: Elton Dean & others
Date: 19 Feb 2002 17:15:36 -0800

i'm crawling out of my lurking spot so I can ask the experts on a few
artists i'm currently digesting: Elton Dean and Nils Petter Molvaer?
Any impressions, other suggestions, etc?

the muff

n.p.  elton dean - just us


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Elton Dean & others
Date: 19 Feb 2002 14:21:23 -0800

Elton Dean + Long John Baldry = sources of the stage name, Elton
John


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Elton Dean & others
Date: 19 Feb 2002 14:24:02 -0800


On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:21:23 -0800  "s~Z" wrote:
>
> Elton Dean + Long John Baldry = sources of the stage name, Elton
> John

Hum... I thought it was Elton Dean and John Taylor. But my memory
is getting worse and worse these days.

    Patrice.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Avant College Groups
Date: 19 Feb 2002 23:44:13 +0100



"Patrice L. Roussel" a *crit :

> On Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:33:05 -0500  "Zachary Steiner" wrote:
> >
> > I hate to be bothersome again about my little aspirations, but... I'm
> > looking for a name for my Experimental group.  I'm looking for something
> > catchy to draw people in, but respectable too.  We toyed with S.E.X.
> > (Students for Experimental Xpression), but that is pretty unrespectable.
> > I don't think a college would recognize a group called SEX, let alone
> > give them any money.  Any ideas?  The Zornlist has proven to be pretty
> > clever in the past, so I though I'd try.
>
> That's strange. Usually coming up with a name is the simplest thing. In
> fact some bands have a hard time to go beyond this achievement :-).
>
>         Patrice.

"The Simplest Thing". That is a good name.

DY.



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Avant College Groups
Date: 19 Feb 2002 14:54:07 -0800


>
> "The Simplest Thing". That is a good name.
>
> DY.
>
>
>
> -
There used to be a punk rock radio show in Philly  called YESTERDAY'S NOW
MUSIC TODAY.  I always liked that.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Elton Dean & others
Date: 19 Feb 2002 15:12:22 -0800

http://www.rareexception.com/Garden/Blues.asp



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Elton Dean & others
Date: 19 Feb 2002 18:41:17 -0600

On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 02:24:02PM -0800, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:
>
> On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:21:23 -0800  "s~Z" wrote:
> >
> > Elton Dean + Long John Baldry = sources of the stage name, Elton
> > John
>
> Hum... I thought it was Elton Dean and John Taylor. But my memory
> is getting worse and worse these days.

And I thought it was Elton Pink and John Floyd...

--
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems        |
|                            http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html |
| Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: RE: jimi
Date: 19 Feb 2002 18:53:27 EST

Don't know if it's been mentioned, but IIRC, there's a Jimi covers album done by a bluegrass band too...I'm at work and away from my CDs at this time, and I can't think of the CD's title or group (was it Psychograss?)

There's also a great Jerry Douglas cover of "Hey Joe" on a bluegrass comp I own...again, I can't think of the title.

Some help, heh?  ;-)

--
=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Braxton
Date: 19 Feb 2002 18:58:49 -0600

On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 06:52:19PM +0100, Franz Fuchs wrote:

> As much as I admire Anthony, his jargon still bothers me. Dare I say
> that his "terminological furor" sometimes seems like a dead end? Maybe
> "bother" isn't the right word and I should substitute it with "worry",
> because "Braxtonspeak" has a tendency towards insularity (e.g.
> "quadrant-specific coalition politics" (!) on the first page of said
> interview) and a Heideggerian quality to it, albeit - and of course -
> with totally different politics. I don't want to overdramatize - maybe
> it's just a combination of adult reflection with a childlike joy for
> inventing words ;-)

IIRC, Graham Lock's "Blutopia" has a long and effective untangling of Braxton's
prose style. The intro to the condensation of the Heffley interview that
is the cover story of the latest "Signal to Noise" also translates things
somewhat, especially about the house of the circle, rectangle, etc.

It also made me much more interested in hearing "Trillium", to hear what
he did with text and voices (though the people who I know who saw it
live, and whose judgment I trust, hated it).

--
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems        |
|                            http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html |
| Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "Filles de Silent Brew"
Date: 19 Feb 2002 19:00:48 -0600

On Tue, Feb 19, 2002 at 08:44:04PM +0100, duncan youngerman wrote:
>=20
> Zachary Steiner a =E9crit :
>=20
> > I never really got Filles.  I place it well below In a Silent Way (wh=
ich
> > I'm not fond of) and way below Bitches Brew.  I think that it could b=
e
> > my least favorite Miles album that I have heard.  I just think that i=
t
> > sounds awkward.
>=20
> It is indeed a very singular album with a unique place in Miles' dicogr=
aphy
> / evolution. It's not straight jazz while being neither funk nor rock. =
I
> grant you it's strange and has almost no legacy (except for some early
> Weather Report, which is pretty good..).

Also remember that Filles is made up of two rather different sets of
music stuck together. Hearing the material in their historical contexts
within the box sets is a revelation.

--=20
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems        |
|                            http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html |
| Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Marc Ribot
Date: 19 Feb 2002 20:53:29 -0500

I was checking out the downtownmusic.net photo gallery.  In the section
entitled "Marc Ribot: Solo, Knitting Factory, November 7, 2000," on the
guitar he was using there were some foreign objects taped/attached to
the guitar.  Towards the bottom of the guitar near the jack, there is
obviously duct tape.  There is a green thing (for lack of a better term)
directly above where he's strumming.  It's most clearly seen in the
third picture in the series.  I asked some guitar playing friends and
they weren't sure.  The only explanation for the tape was maybe another
pickup was being used.

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: dolphy weekend
Date: 20 Feb 2002 02:05:39 +0000

>From: skip heller <[e-mail]>

> >> Dave is a genius.
> >
> > ...and he's white!
> >
>I don't think that particularly assured him any success.

Sorry! My point was that in the social climate of Amerikkka at the time,
Dolphy might have found it just a bit more difficult than Brubeck to take
the 'Out To Lunch' band out on the road for a comprehensive tour of that
material.  Your comment that a bandleader like Brubeck could have done so
much more with those tunes didn't really take that reality into account.
It's good that album came out on Blue Note and not Prestige, at least they
had a day to rehearse!

np: Jeanne Lee Ran Blake 'The Newest Sound Around'

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: "Filles de Silent Brew"
Date: 20 Feb 2002 03:23:06 +0100


----- Original Message -----



DY: It is indeed a very singular album with a unique place in Miles'
dicography
/ evolution. It's not straight jazz while being neither funk nor rock. I
grant you it's strange and has almost no legacy (except for some early
Weather Report, which is pretty good..).


*** i got into this album when i was deep into '80s crimson. a kind of
rhythmic abstractiomn seduced me.



DY: But then think of Beethoven's Grosse Fugue, the Beatles' "I am the
Walrus",
Dylan's "Sad-eyed lady of the lowlands", or any number of unusual,
unclassifiable or transitional works. When you get tired of all the rest,
you might be grateful it's there to get into...


*** and it was the first MD album i really liked. I did not consider myself
a MD fan until I realised I have 20+ md's albums.


DY: Some exception! This album is known as a kind of concerto for Williams.



*** zachary & DY, please. Both miles and WS solos are great, and the rhythm
section's wotrk is just exceptional.

Marcin





-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: loren, eric, deidre, jimi and anthony
Date: 20 Feb 2002 03:25:34 +0100


> sterility you're sensing sounds to me like those  guys working hard to
read
> the music.

But skip... just listen to the part of the first tune with the vibes solo
where TW starts hiting the drums very loud in the middle of Hutcherson's
solo. that's wild improv at full flight, not an  effort to read music.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Odp: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Date: 20 Feb 2002 03:38:02 +0100


----- Original Message -----


> OK, if you prefer we can say that after some water has passed under the
> bridges, we can expect a judgement that is more focused on what is truly
> "artistic", as opposed as to all the artifacts surrounding creation (fad,
> trend, biased opinions from people having financial interest, etc). That
> might be not perfect but it has at least some elements of objectivity (or
> to use a more careful understatement: less elements of subjectivity).

you're right. I wanted to stress, however, that some 'works of art' may use
some cliches that would be readable to the people in  a certain context. and
it does not make those work less 'important'.
If there's no buses at some point,  that may affect our rhythimc/ social
sensivity (we could stop perceivin mechanical rhythm as something that may
have an importance for human contract. Just an example, not very great)


> Regardless of the few critics, KIND OF BLUE is more likely to stand the
test
> of time than 99% of what was released last year (and I consider that 1% is
> quite a high number for something that is supposed to mean anything to
more
> than a handful of people in 30 years).

KOB may be a great example. it's an all-time great, but it's very
characteristic of the sound people were seeking in late '50s. Those  things
are not always very clear. this context may become completly strange to some
people/ societies. such things happen, and how dies it affect the value of
the work of the sextet?
I don't know, this talk about value independent of cultural background gets
on my nerves (although i'm not a relativism ethousiast). never mind, people
make music/ some other art, and some people react toit in a certain way.

It's pretty late here now ;-) (and Solari put a late goal at least!)
Marcin







-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: dolphy weekend
Date: 19 Feb 2002 18:34:27 -0800

on 2/19/02 6:05 PM, thomas chatterton at [e-mail] wrote:

> Sorry! My point was that in the social climate of Amerikkka at the time,
> Dolphy might have found it just a bit more difficult than Brubeck to take
> the 'Out To Lunch' band out on the road for a comprehensive tour of that
> material.  Your comment that a bandleader like Brubeck could have done so
> much more with those tunes didn't really take that reality into account.

Let me explain.  My comment had nothing to do with Brubeck per se, but more
with any bandleader who had a touring unit that did things uncommon to the
period in which the work was designed.  I could as easily have used John
Lewis as the example.  He and his band were black and on Prestige but
achieved enough popular success to move up to Atlantic.

Also, that comment had less to do with the tunes themselves than to do with
refining a bunch of music that requires the players to play things for which
their respective backgrounds have little hands-on precedent.  The writing on
OTL was full of non-typical stuff that it would be hard to play naturally
after only one day of rehearsal.  The same could and in fact has to be said
about Brubeck's odd-time work.

As a bandleader who often makes his groups do stuff they don't normally do,
I take a lot of realities into account that non-musicians should never have
to.  The first is that asking them to groove in an odd time or unfamiliar
feel or to play fiendishly difficult music isn't something they're going to
do comfortably after one day of rehearsal.  That much is never relegated to
race and should not be turned into a racial question.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: "Filles de Silent Brew"
Date: 20 Feb 2002 03:43:00 +0100


----- Original Message -----
Also remember that Filles is made up of two rather different sets of
music stuck together. Hearing the material in their historical contexts
within the box sets is a revelation.


*** not THAT much different. wwe have corea/holland on some tunes replacing
carter/hanckock, but it's all been reocrde the same year. those sessions
were were reocrded just a month or two apart.
I like listening to those tunes both in original context and in the session
way of the boxed sets, but 'bitches brew' works IMO much better as 4cd then
2lp.  One can get the idea of what the idea was about when one hears the
entire sessions.
Marcin


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: loren, eric, deidre, jimi and anthony
Date: 19 Feb 2002 18:41:17 -0800

on 2/19/02 6:25 PM, Marcin Gokieli at [e-mail] wrote:

>> sterility you're sensing sounds to me like those  guys working hard to
> read
>> the music.
>
> But skip... just listen to the part of the first tune with the vibes solo
> where TW starts hiting the drums very loud in the middle of Hutcherson's
> solo. that's wild improv at full flight, not an  effort to read music.
>
>
> -
I never implied for a second that there's not a bunch of compelling playing
there.  I just presented the thought that maybe what some take as sterily is
simply guys trying to do a lot of new stuff for which they have not had the
most luxuriant rehearsal time, and might have sacrificed a little in order
to avoid making mistakes. That album is full of really hard music, and you
can tell there's a little bit of holding back because the music was so new
to the players and they were doing everything they could to execute it
properly.

I always look at this kind of album -- where somebody's pushing the
transition of the music -- with extra slack.  That anybody could be expected
to do what they did after one day of rehearsal is unfair.  That they pulled
it off as well as they did is miraculous.  It's Dolphy's great achievement
as a composer/arranger, to be sure.  But I maintain that it would have been
even better if he'd had months and not one day of playing those tunes with
that group.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Alan Lankin <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: sanborn does hemphill
Date: 19 Feb 2002 21:56:09 -0500

Diminutive Mysteries is scheduled to be reissued by W&W in Oct 2004...


Alan Lankin

--
Jazzmatazz
http://jazzmatazz.home.att.net
[e-mail]




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: bandleading -- food for thought
Date: 19 Feb 2002 20:53:21 -0800

There's a lot of work discussed on this list to varying degrees of insight,
and one thing does not seem to be taken into account as frequently as I
believe it should:

Bandleaders who make strides are generally able to do so because they have a
standing unit that can evolve the music over a big chunk of time, whereas
guys that get together for a recording session don't have that advantage.

The big reason guys like Dave Douglas -- or Dave brubeck -- register big
growth in their recorded output is because their groups are/were out there
working often enough that the ensembles accrue shared vocabulary.

Often, you hear guys referring to the old "blowing session" days of Prestige
and early Blue Note as some kind of golden age, usually because guys who
took good solos were recorded often, usually playing music that didn;t
require much rehearsal (how much do you have to rehearse "Have You Met Miss
Jones" or whatever?).  The result -- lots of records filled with good solos,
but the level of interplay generally hinged on whether the rhythm section
played together often enough to lock in easily.  As much as I love many of
the soloists, these records often bore me to tears, because there's nothing
notable in them but the solos.

How great was Eric Dolphy? We'll never exactly know the answer to that,
because he never took his best shot under the circumstances afforded the
lowliest Sunset Strip folk-rock act -- the time to play a bunch of music
together, develop the ensemble, and pick the best material from a catalog
that's been tried, edited, and tweaked.  Aside from his own soloing style,
how much "signature" Eric Dolphy do we have? Compared to a lot of composers
of lesser stature, not much.

Whatever your opinion of Brubeck, he was absolutely heroic in how he kept
his band together, and even moreso in his ability to get the guys feeling
good enough about doing something that looked to have no promise in the
marketplace (jazz records with no standard tunes and with everything NOT in
4/4).  And the fact that he had the patience to shape that band to the point
where they played very easily in 5, 9, or whatever else would have been lost
had he not had the time to develop that group that way.  The same is to be
said about bands led by Mingus, Ellery Eskelin, Uri Caine, Zorn, or anyone
else whose performances/recordings are made up of ideas the players were not
playing until they wound up in that group.

One of the reasons Miles' 50s/60s output is awarded such high marks is that
his bands were generally the best-sounding.  As to why that is, it's
generally because they played together the most, and in such a visible
situation that mandated chartable growth or subsequent unemployment
(although I think George Coleman got a raw deal).  Does anyone honestly
think Herbie was the only pianist/composer of that era with the raw talent
to cut it in that band? He surely wasn't, and every city has its major
genius who never got the shot.  Of course, HH had the hustle to know what to
do with it, and that never hurts.  But Miles' rep as a human music incubator
had an effect on the musicians with whom he played, and the fact that he
worked a lot, and usually 4-5 nights at a time, had as much to do with how
his groups did what they did as any spoken conceptual directive had.

If Dolphy had positioned himself as a leader and lived longer, would he have
accomplished things of similar greatness? Hard to say, obviously.  Did
Brubeck? Yes, although not in a way as sweeping as Miles'.  Will Zorn? He
probably has, but it's hard to say anything definitive about what a man has
accomplished while he's still accomplishing it.

skip h



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: bandleading -- food for thought
Date: 20 Feb 2002 00:03:26 -0500

It seems to me that Zorn is fond of the one time group thing (with the
notable exceptions of Naked City and Masada).  It could be from my point
of view as a non-NY resident.  He may develop those groups that seem to
come from nowhere in a live setting before he records.  Is this a flaw
with my perspective or do albums like Spy v. Spy, Elegy, The Big
Gundown, etc come from a group that assembles for the date but then
disperses not to play again?

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: bandleading -- food for thought
Date: 20 Feb 2002 00:06:03 -0600

On Wed, Feb 20, 2002 at 12:03:26AM -0500, Zachary Steiner wrote:
> It seems to me that Zorn is fond of the one time group thing (with the
> notable exceptions of Naked City and Masada).  It could be from my point
> of view as a non-NY resident.  He may develop those groups that seem to
> come from nowhere in a live setting before he records.  Is this a flaw
> with my perspective or do albums like Spy v. Spy, Elegy, The Big
> Gundown, etc come from a group that assembles for the date but then
> disperses not to play again?

Others will know better, but I saw Spy vs Spy quite a while before they
recorded (and before they threw the thrash aspect in). If you follow
his discography, i think you'll see that, while he may not have the exact
same roster from piece to piece, over a range of time he would use a
pretty consistent pool of people.

--
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems        |
|                            http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html |
| Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: "Filles de Silent Brew"
Date: 19 Feb 2002 23:04:33 -0700



>Some exception! This album is known as a kind of concerto for Williams.

I agree.

If you don't "get" this album just tap the pulse and listen to Tony
Williams.  Or just listen to Tony Williams.

Matt



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: bandleading -- food for thought
Date: 19 Feb 2002 22:44:49 -0800

on 2/19/02 9:03 PM, Zachary Steiner at [e-mail] wrote:

> It seems to me that Zorn is fond of the one time group thing (with the
> notable exceptions of Naked City and Masada).  It could be from my point
> of view as a non-NY resident.  He may develop those groups that seem to
> come from nowhere in a live setting before he records.  Is this a flaw
> with my perspective or do albums like Spy v. Spy, Elegy, The Big
> Gundown, etc come from a group that assembles for the date but then
> disperses not to play again?
>
> Zach
>

Spy Vs Spy did play out, and GUNDOWN was more of a repetoiry thing.  ELEGY
relied more on thru-composing (if it's the work I'm thinking of).

sh


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: High from "Pharaoh's dance"
Date: 20 Feb 2002 09:11:58 +0100

Flying high from listening to "Pharaoh's dance" (track 1 from "Bitches'
brew") I don't know how many times...
What a total gas... The slow inexorable unfolding of the form, the
Corea-Zawinul gang's constant insect-like bopping with added grit from
McLaughlin, the sudden cluster breaks, the bass clarinet's dark
brooding, the simmering polyrythmic multiple drums + congas, Shorter's
exquisite widely outstretched solo, and then the majesty of Miles (and
what a great vehicle indeed this tune is for His Majesty!)...
This is one of the 4 or 5 pieces of music to send into outer space to
show eventual extraterrestials what humanity is all about. A peak...

DY.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: bandleading -- food for thought
Date: 20 Feb 2002 10:04:47 +0100

Skip,
I think we undertand our respective points of view pretty well. I think
you're largely right, and your food is pretty tasty ;-). I'd like to stress
two points, however:
    1. It''s true that having the OTL band for rehearsal +  tour for some
time would serve that music very well (i often have the feeling that it's
unjust that some 'stupid' problems prevent music from being prepared &
recorded). Just imagine what, let's say 'filles' would sound like without
years of playing together. We have an alt take of tout de suite on the
quitet boxed set - and it lacks the main solo section! it sounds more like
'mabry'. The quintet improvised the arrangemant of the tune from the initial
sketch thanks to their experience of being a band for many years (the degree
of mutual understang on that album is a marvel). There's no trace of such
things on OTL, and we could have treasures had this happend (simply a longer
recording session could do miracles, as you pointed out).
    Having said that, however, I want to point out that there's something
interesting in hearing that music in that very  way - like a kind of
rehearsal. You hear the tension, ambition, good will, and effort to pull out
as much as possible  of the music. Some mutual understanding and  fluency in
playing may have been maybe more interesting ;-), but the heroism we have is
beautiful. I hear similiar things in zappa's bands - they did not have
enough time to practice the material, and they somehow 'fight' for the
sound.
    2. I'm not totally convinced about your idea of players being
replaceable. OK,  there was a great pianist in every town, but somehow HH
was the ideal (being a part of the collective tha defined the goal helps a
lot). what would happen had another musician been in that band? hard to say.
But given the degree to which the introduction of new members changed MD's
music in late '60s (see silent way box), it's rather controversial. MD gave
the members of his bands the possibility of giving very personal
contributions in the frames set by him.
    Besisdes, it's very interesting how unsufficient musical talent is for
muical creation. It's largely about being able to colaborate with some group
of persons,  finding places to play and be paid etc.
best,
Marcin


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: "Filles de Silent Brew"
Date: 20 Feb 2002 10:07:34 +0100


----- Original Message -----

> >Some exception! This album is known as a kind of concerto for Williams.
>
> I agree.
>
> If you don't "get" this album just tap the pulse and listen to Tony
> Williams.  Or just listen to Tony Williams.

And then start listening  to the way the other memebers listened and reacted
to TW's playing.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Richard Gardner <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: jimi
Date: 20 Feb 2002 09:51:27 +0000

on 20/2/02 2:27 AM, Zorn List Digest at
[e-mail] wrote:

> Don't know if it's been mentioned, but IIRC, there's a Jimi covers album done
> by a bluegrass band too...I'm at work and away from my CDs at this time, and I
> can't think of the CD's title or group (was it Psychograss?)

Not quite the same thing but did anyone else ever hear the Trailer Park
Casanovas bluegrass version of "The Ace of Spades". One of my all time
favourite singles. Suddenly the song makes complete sense.

Richard Gardner


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Avant College Groups
Date: 20 Feb 2002 11:20:44 +0100

> I hate to be bothersome again about my little aspirations, but... I'm
> looking for a name for my Experimental group.
Is it based on heavy metal?
Cruel Abortion might be appropriate.

Regards, Remco Takken

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 2:33 AM


I'm looking for something
> catchy to draw people in, but respectable too.  We toyed with S.E.X.
> (Students for Experimental Xpression), but that is pretty unrespectable.
> I don't think a college would recognize a group called SEX, let alone
> give them any money.  Any ideas?  The Zornlist has proven to be pretty
> clever in the past, so I though I'd try.
>
> Zach
>
>
>
> -
>
> ================================================================
> Deze e-mail is door E-mail VirusScanner van Planet Internet gecontroleerd
op virussen.
> Op http://www.planet.nl/evs staat een verwijzing naar de actuele lijst
waar op wordt gecontroleerd.
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rich Williams <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Elton Dean & others
Date: 20 Feb 2002 06:51:12 -0500

>On Tue, 19 Feb 2002 14:21:23 -0800  "s~Z" wrote:
>>
>>  Elton Dean + Long John Baldry = sources of the stage name, Elton
>>  John
>
>Hum... I thought it was Elton Dean and John Taylor. But my memory
>is getting worse and worse these days.
>
>    Patrice.


    Hmmm....and I thought it was Elton Dean and John
Surman....Unfortunately a lot of Dean's best work is out-of-print;
The 2 Ninesense LP's are highly recommended if you can
beg/borrow/steal copies. The Quartet date on ECM "Boundaries" is
another good one.  Cuneiform has reissued his first CBS disc, with
bonus material, but this being the zorn-list, you might want to check
out the more experimental improv discs with Joe Gallivan, "The Cheque
is in the mail" or "Cruel but Fair"

Rich

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: radio show with unusual Bar Khokba line-up (again)
Date: 20 Feb 2002 13:26:48 +0100

Hi,
This was dicussed in january, here's a late addition:

back in january, I remembered from the top of my head, a Dutch radio show
with Bar Khokba playing different arrangements to the cd recordings. I just
heard some more exact dates to this recording.

That show was recorded at the RUMOR Festival, at Tivoli Utrecht, october 28,
1996, and probably broadcasted either by vpro or nps radio.

Thanks to Marcel Kranendonk for getting the facts right...

Regards, Remco Takken


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Elton Dean & others
Date: 20 Feb 2002 13:14:48 +0100


> i'm crawling out of my lurking spot so I can ask the experts on a few
> artists i'm currently digesting: Elton Dean and Nils Petter Molvaer?
> Any impressions, other suggestions, etc?
>
>
I have a blind spot for Nils Petter Molvaer, I am afraid. Perhaps 'Come play
with me' by trumpeter Cuong Vu gives you the reason why. It's on Knitting
Factory.

Elton Dean only really grew after his stint with Soft Machine. His OGUN
records from the seventies might have been re-released, I don't know, but he
regularly makes albums for Brit label SLAM, run by the great baritone sax
player George Haslam. I have no idea if these discs are still available. I
used to write Haslam personally, but we lost track after I moved a couple of
times.

In the US, Cuneiform released some pretty amazing recent stuff.
Recommendations on Cuneiform:
Bladik, a sort of big band version of keith tippett's mujician
Silent knowledge, great set with  pianist Sophia Domanchich a.o.
Moorsong, strange hammond record. Sometimes I feel they are trying to 'fake'
a jamband album, but mostly it's just a very retro britjazz album with some
killer guitar work by Mark Hewins.

Then ,there might be interesting stuff on the British Voiceprint label.
Again, I lost track after all those badsounding archival recordings lately,
but they might have some decent Elton Dean stuff. I very migh like the
freely improvised 'The Mind in the Trees' from 1997, with bassplayer Hugh
Hopper and Francis Knight accordion.


Good luck,
Remco Takken


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Alan Kayser" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Filles de Silent Brew
Date: 20 Feb 2002 08:55:15 -0500


This was a transitional time for Miles.  The second great quintet was moving
on and Miles was experimenting with laying a more solid beat under his modal
experiments.  He realized that Carter was not the bassist for this type of
music, thus Dave Holland.  Hancock knew his days were numbered when he
showed up at a recording session and there was no piano.  The LP caused
little stir when it was first released, but can now be seen as the first of
his "fusion" records.  It is somewhat awkward sounding today, but in the
context of the box set sounds right at home.  In A Silent Way sounds as
awkward in it's obvious use of splicing, and not until BB was the experiment
fulfilled.

BTW, my hat is off to Columbia/Sony for releasing the Miles box sets, but
calling the last one The Complete Silent Way Sessions is really stretching
the point.  In fact for a Miles fan like myself it was rather disappointing.
  I expected to hear something more complete as to how the original
pre-Macero tapes sounded, but instead we get several versions of basically
the same material.  It would be more accurate to title these sets with years
instead of Complete so and so.  Much of this material was not intended for
In A Silent Way, or for release at all.

That said, the 2CD It's About That Time featuring the Holland-Shorter-Corea
group is fantastic.  Holland really stands out here, and IMHO was the
perfect fit for Miles.  But his replacement, Henderson, was a completely
different player more suited to what Miles was looking for.

All this and can't wait for the Cellar Door sets.  I remember first hearing
Live-Evil upon it's release and being almost as blown away as I felt with
Bitches Brew.  McLaughlin was scary.  Too bad he only sat in for two sets.
Of all the material, Macero chose just the two sets with JM to edit down for
release on Live-Evil.  Interestingly, Jarrett was, and still is, critical of
McLaughlin, yet the music really catches fire when JM plays.  A real
"fusion" of styles takes place, maybe "electric free jazz" is it's name.

Speaking of JM, does anyone know what ever happened to Rick Laird and Jerry
Goodman?  I know Goodman did one solo LP, but both seemed to disappear,
unlike Hammer (who maybe should have) and Cobham.

Alan Kayser


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Avant College Groups
Date: 20 Feb 2002 09:12:57 -0500

>> Is it based on heavy metal?
Cruel Abortion might be appropriate.

It's not about heavy metal specifically.  It's not about music
specifically.  I want to incorporate all artistic disciplines (or at
least those that the members are interested in).

Zach




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fw: radio show with unusual Bar Khokba line-up (again)
Date: 20 Feb 2002 15:30:37 +0100

----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 10:58 PM


> Dit was oorspronkelijke mailtje:
>
> It was a show at the Tivoli in Utrecht october 28, 1996 organized by
Rumor.
> The line-up was JZ (directing, not playing), Ribot, Baron, Feldman,
> Friedlander and Baptista. Great show, one set, some 100 minutes.
> Radiobradcasts in early and late 1997.
>
> Groeten
>
> MK
> ----------



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Filles de Silent Brew
Date: 20 Feb 2002 16:00:15 +0100


of
> music, thus Dave Holland.  Hancock knew his days were numbered when he
> showed up at a recording session and there was no piano.  The LP
Mhm, do you mean there was no keyboard at all, of just an electric piano?
Hancock played electrics during concerts, as preserved on live tapes from
Europe, 1967.


> context of the box set sounds right at home.  In A Silent Way sounds as
> awkward in it's obvious use of splicing,
As does Live-Evil, an album released after Bitches Brew.

>
> All this and can't wait for the Cellar Door sets.  I remember first
Yeah! You might hear for the first time in 32 years what really happened
before McLauhglin's first solo. there's some severe splicing going on around
the first note McLaughlin plays.

> Live-Evil upon it's release and being almost as blown away as I felt with
> Bitches Brew.  McLaughlin was scary.  Too bad he only sat in for two sets.

> Of all the material, Macero chose just the two sets with JM to edit down
for
> release on Live-Evil.  Interestingly, Jarrett was, and still is, critical
of
> McLaughlin, yet the music really catches fire when JM plays.

I don't know what Jarrett said exactly about McLaughlin's playing on
Live-Evil, but upon the risk of (again) being identified as a member of the
pitch police, I feel the urge to state, that McLaughlin played out of tune
on this concert.

That mcLaughlin adds fire nevertheless is completely true. When hearing
this, to me it was the moment I felt I had completely overgrown the idea
that 'Miles made a bunch of double live albums in the seventies that all
sound the same'. I know a Dutch jazz musician who has a huge Electric Live
Miles tape collection, so I know there is fascinating material floating
around, some of it even spread by Miles' musicians.

When the box set's there, (I hadn't heard there actually were plans) I won't
feel the urge to go back to those lame extra studio tracks on Live-Evil.

Regards, Remco


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: Tomahawk?
Date: 20 Feb 2002 16:32:06 +0100


Hey boys and girls

Mike Patton will play in Zurich with his TOMAHAWK project next week.

Anyone ever seen them live?
Recommended? Or not worth the trip?

Can Tomahawk be compared with any of Patton's other projects?

Thanks for your help.

patRice

np: John Zorn, The Gift
nr: Howard Marks, Mr. Nice


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Alban Jacques <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: Tomahawk?
Date: 20 Feb 2002 16:42:44 +0100

Yeah... normaly they would have played in strasbourg yesterday but it
was canceled... Fucking bad for me... But in fact tomahawk is for me
a kind of new faith no more... So i like them it s fun it reminds me
highschool...
A


>Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:32:06 +0100
>From: patRice <[e-mail]>
>Reply-To: [e-mail]
>X-Accept-Language: en
>To: Zornlist <[e-mail]>
>Subject: Tomahawk?
>Sender: [e-mail]
>
>
>Hey boys and girls
>
>Mike Patton will play in Zurich with his TOMAHAWK project next week.
>
>Anyone ever seen them live?
>Recommended? Or not worth the trip?
>
>Can Tomahawk be compared with any of Patton's other projects?
>
>Thanks for your help.
>
>patRice
>
>np: John Zorn, The Gift
>nr: Howard Marks, Mr. Nice
>
>
>-


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: Tomahawk?
Date: 20 Feb 2002 17:17:54 +0100 (CET)

Pat,

Go! I wouldn't put it at such a high level as that of
FNM but it's a Patton live performance and I wouldn't
miss it for anything. I didn't like the record but
I'll go to their concert in Barcelona on March 8,
that's for sure.
I'm even thinking of going to London to see Zorn's
"The Gift" in March -if I'm not wrong-. I finally fell
in love with the record although I hated it in the
first place. Anyone knows where I can get more info of
this concert? (ticket sales, prices, reservations,
etc...).

Thanks.

EfrΘn del Valle
>
> Yeah... normaly they would have played in strasbourg
> yesterday but it
> was canceled... Fucking bad for me... But in fact
> tomahawk is for me
> a kind of new faith no more... So i like them it s
> fun it reminds me
> highschool...
> A
>
>
> >Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:32:06 +0100
> >From: patRice <[e-mail]>
> >Reply-To: [e-mail]
> >X-Accept-Language: en
> >To: Zornlist <[e-mail]>
> >Subject: Tomahawk?
> >Sender: [e-mail]
> >
> >
> >Hey boys and girls
> >
> >Mike Patton will play in Zurich with his TOMAHAWK
> project next week.
> >
> >Anyone ever seen them live?
> >Recommended? Or not worth the trip?
> >
> >Can Tomahawk be compared with any of Patton's other
> projects?
> >
> >Thanks for your help.
> >
> >patRice
> >
> >np: John Zorn, The Gift
> >nr: Howard Marks, Mr. Nice
> >
> >
> >-
>
>
> -
>

_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: hendrix bluegrass
Date: 20 Feb 2002 16:22:04 +0000

i'm all but certain the banjo-pickin hendrix disc is called 'pickin on
hendrix'. there's a series of them, pickin' on aerosmith, others. they're,
uh, not deep, but fun enough and the playing's ok. the only reason i have a
few is that it's not too hard to find them for about $2.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Elton Dean & others
Date: 20 Feb 2002 08:42:01 -0800


On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 06:51:12 -0500  Rich Williams wrote:
>
>     Hmmm....and I thought it was Elton Dean and John
> Surman....Unfortunately a lot of Dean's best work is out-of-print;

It is not Surman. That I am sure.

> The 2 Ninesense LP's are highly recommended if you can
> beg/borrow/steal copies. The Quartet date on ECM "Boundaries" is

Yes, Ogun has so many treasures waiting for reissues...

> another good one.  Cuneiform has reissued his first CBS disc, with
> bonus material, but this being the zorn-list, you might want to check
> out the more experimental improv discs with Joe Gallivan, "The Cheque
> is in the mail" or "Cruel but Fair"

There are also the Soft Machine records. I just bought THIRD, unfortunately
in the US pressing which sound is quite lousy. Great Elton Dean playing on
it.

    Patrice.

PS: finally the Angel record with Reich's FOUR ORGANS/Cage's THREE DANCES has
been reissued (with a 20-finger version of Stravinsky's RITE)!

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: William Crump <[e-mail]>
Subject: "Call for Papers," sorta
Date: 20 Feb 2002 08:47:18 -0800 (PST)

Franz Fuchs pointed us to this Heffley guy's scholarly
writing:

>>PS: An extensive and relative recent interview with
Braxton can be
found
at http://mheffley.web.wesleyan.edu/ (link provided by
Jason Guthartz).
If I haven't miscalculated  the whole "thing" amounts
to ~70 000 words!
It's certainly this sheer mass that has hindered an
appropriate
discussion on the Braxton list.<<

...and I wanted to first, thank Franz, and second,
make a general request to the list for any other links
to writing-on-music available on the web. Is there a
site with loads of links to webzines, collections of
scholarly writings, etc.? The full range from lowbrow
to highbrow is appreciated.

One good bookstore in northeast Mississippi,
William Crump

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Elton Dean & others
Date: 20 Feb 2002 11:39:34 -0500


>There are also the Soft Machine records. I just bought THIRD, unfortunately
>in the US pressing which sound is quite lousy. Great Elton Dean playing on
>it.

>    Patrice.

Cuneiform also released a couple great radio sessions by the Soft Machine.
Virtually (1971) is the stronger of the 2 for my money, but Noisette
(1970)was nice also and has Elton Dean joined by Lyn Dobson on sax & flute.

sean


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Tomahawk?
Date: 20 Feb 2002 12:07:14 -0500


I saw them this fall; it was well worth the 6 hours of driving that it
took me to get there.  I would have driven 6 more hours.  Patton was
phenomenal, though I can't compare it to any other groups b/c this was
my first Patton concert :(  I went with three people who had never heard
Patton before, they were floored and their reactions were classic (I
enjoyed them almost as much as the music).  I enjoyed the cover of
"Angel Eyes" as the encore.  Was any one else at the Chicago show on the
Saturday after Thanksgiving?

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "josephneff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Dolphy
Date: 20 Feb 2002 12:31:24 -0500

Hello,
     ...before this thread disappears I thought I'd give a second opinion
regarding the greatness of the "Live at the Five Spot Vol. 1" that was
mentioned a few days ago. I own this on cassette, so I've listened to this
quite a bit while driving, and on one occasion needed to pull my car onto
the side of the road until "the Prophet" was through playing. I rank this as
some of the finest Dolphy that I've heard. On the subject of group
rehearsal, does anyone know how long this group (Dolphy, Booker Little, Mal
Waldron, Ed Blackwell, and Richard Davis) were dealing w/ this material
before the recording? I hadn't thought about it before, but "...Five spot"
sits on one end of the spectrum of Dolphy recordings that I've heard, and
"Out To Lunch" sits on the other. I love them both dearly, but the former
goes much MUCH deeper into the core of what great jazz is for me personally.
    I've lent it to a friend, so please excuse the lack of concrete info, but
the Original Jazz Classics CD "Live in Europe Vol. 1" features some very
fine flute and bass clarinet playing. IIRC, "Oleo" is featured (flute) and
an amazing "God Bless the Child" (solo bass c.). I'm drawing a blank on
other players, w/ the exception of bassist Chuck Isreals. This was one of
the first recordings to really warm me to the idea of flute (Roland Kirk
also helped here). I like the playing on "Last Date" better, but the OJC
above is still very fine.
    Now, one of the first jazz discs that I purchased (over a decade ago) was a
Telstar cheapy by John Coltrane titled "Abstract Blue". Anybody familiar w/
this? The reason I ask is that Dolphy is all over this thing, but no credits
are given, and most of it is live material that may have been released in a
more attractive/appropriate package. It opens w/ a live "Mr. P.C." which
hits this shearly blissful balance of frenzy and melodics and Elvin is
positively on fire....any info would be so appreciated.

I remain...

Joseph

NP: Matthew Shipp- "Pastoral Composure" CD
NR: John Hawkes- "Lunar Landscapes"


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Dolphy
Date: 20 Feb 2002 09:28:06 -0800


On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:31:24 -0500  "josephneff" wrote:
>
> NR: John Hawkes- "Lunar Landscapes"

Wow! There are still people reading John Hawkes. How long will it take for him
to get the recognition that he deserved?

Did anybody go to see BLOOD IN ORANGES? Not that I expect anything good out of
it, but just curious if the movie is worth checking (based on the novel, it
does not look like a silly enterprise to adapt it to the screen).

    Patrice (still keeping John Barth's eulogy in NYTB).

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Dolphy, Prestige Box Live discography
Date: 20 Feb 2002 19:31:32 +0100

Some off-list discussion going on about what kind of live material you can
find in Eric Dolphy's complete Prestige Recordings box set. This here info
from the booklet that comes with the cd's:

Concert dates:
Five Spot july 16, 1961
Copenhagen, Berlingske Has (sp?) september 6, 1961
Copenhagen, Studentenforeningens Foredragssal) september 8, 1961
(these two dates not to be confused with the ENJA release 'Stockholm
Concerts', which is NOT a Prestige recording!!)

Album titles (also available outside of the box):

Live at the Five Spot volumes 1+2
Eric Dolphy & Booker Little Memorial Album (call this volume 3)

In Europe volumes 1,2 & 3
Here and There (rest material from both five spot and europe)

There is a cheap Italian 'Immortal Concerts' cd with many good five Spot
tracks (available in Holland through V&D).

Vinyl variations, double lp's:
Status (repackaging Europe vol 2 & Here and there)
Copenhagen Concert (repackaging Europe 1 & 3)
The great concert of Eric Dolphy (all three five spot albums)






-



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From: "josephneff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: John Hawkes (was Dolphy)
Date: 20 Feb 2002 13:41:13 -0500

Hello,
     ....haven't watched the movie because I haven't read the book yet, and
I make the habit of trying to do the book before the movie when at all
possible. A bookseller friend of mine has talked up Hawkes for some time, so
I decided to jump in. Quite good. I particularly like "A Little Bit of the
Old Slap and Tickle".
    Speaking of films based on literature, I've been a little weirded out by
the adaptation of Robert Coover's "The Babysitter". It's one of my all time
favorite short stories, so I've avoided watching the film, but I am quite
curious as to how the story was adapted. Has anyone watched this one?

I remain...

Joseph

NP: Mark E. Superstar- cassette
NR: John Hawkes- "Lunar Landscapes"

-----Original Message-----
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 12:28 PM
Cc: [e-mail]; [e-mail]



On Wed, 20 Feb 2002 12:31:24 -0500  "josephneff" wrote:
>
> NR: John Hawkes- "Lunar Landscapes"

Wow! There are still people reading John Hawkes. How long will it take for
him
to get the recognition that he deserved?

Did anybody go to see BLOOD IN ORANGES? Not that I expect anything good out
of
it, but just curious if the movie is worth checking (based on the novel, it
does not look like a silly enterprise to adapt it to the screen).

    Patrice (still keeping John Barth's eulogy in NYTB).


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Parry Gettelman <[e-mail]>
Subject: bandleading -- food for thought
Date: 20 Feb 2002 18:50:45 GMT

> I never implied for a second that there's not a bunch of compelling playing
> there.  I just presented the thought that maybe what some take as sterily is
> simply guys trying to do a lot of new stuff for which they have not had the
> most luxuriant rehearsal time, and might have sacrificed a little in order
> to avoid making mistakes.

I heard a prime example of what Skip is talking about when I went to see the
all-star version of Sam Rivers' Rivbea Orchestra at Sweet Basil for his 75th
birthday celebration.  These were heavy-duty guys -- Steve Coleman, Greg
Osby, Hamiett Bluiett, Ray Anderson, Gary Thomas, etc. -- and Sam had his
usual brilliant rhythm section, but although the soloing was magnificent,
the pieces just didn't live and breathe as vibrantly as they did when Sam's
band in Orlando played them.  That's the line-up that's on the 2000 RCA
release "Culmination," and I'm still waiting for the recording of the
Orlando big band to come out, because I heard an unmixed version and it was
twice as good as "Culmination."

All the guys in the all-star band had a history w/ Sam, but it just wasn't
the same as hearing guys (and a girl or two) who got together once a week w/
Sam to rehearse and gigged fairly frequently.  The Orlando ensemble had
slightly different line-ups at rehearsals every week, depending on who had a
paying gig and couldn't make it, but everybody had been working together so
long that Sam could throw incredibly difficult music at them and it would
come to life immediately.  (Particularly amazing when Doug Mathews, the
bassist, was working and the tuba player had to take on those bass
parts.....)  Of course, a lot of the band members worked at Disney and were
terrific readers, too.

Parry

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: re: Elton Dean/Soft Machine
Date: 20 Feb 2002 13:48:34 EST

>Cuneiform also released a couple great radio sessions by the Soft Machine.
>Virtually (1971) is the stronger of the 2 for my money, but Noisette
>(1970) was nice also and has Elton Dean joined by Lyn Dobson on sax & flute.

For those who are interested, coming in May is "Backwards" by Soft Machine:

It contains a 38' session from May, 1970 with some excellent, really warm
playing by Elton. It's in mono, but other than that, I think it may be the
best sounding Soft Machine tape we've come up with yet.

Additionally there is 12' of previously unreleased masterial by the "big
band" version of Soft Machine (Ratledge/Hopper/Wyatt + Marc Charig, Nick
Evans, Lyn Dobson & Elton Dean).

And finally, the 22' 1968/69 hybrid demo of "Moon In June" is included in
superior sound and released in full for the first time (the first half is
solo Robert from October & November 1968, while the 2nd half adds the Soft
Machine from spring, 1969).

Steve
Cuneiform

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: hyyy gbbbb <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Dolphy
Date: 20 Feb 2002 11:21:22 -0800


Joseph, regarding what you call "abstract blue",

I am guessing, based on your mention of Mr P.C., that the concert is
feb.9-10 1962, recorded off an AM radio broadcast live from Birdland.
This one has been out on numerous bootleg labels, and also just showed up on
a pablo boxset (erroneously as one of a number of live european dates).
I have an lp copy on the old Ozone label.

graham connah

> From: "josephneff" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: RE: Dolphy


> Now, one of the first jazz discs that I purchased (over a decade ago) was a
> Telstar cheapy by John Coltrane titled "Abstract Blue". Anybody familiar w/
> this? The reason I ask is that Dolphy is all over this thing, but no credits
> are given, and most of it is live material that may have been released in a
> more attractive/appropriate package. It opens w/ a live "Mr. P.C." which
> hits this shearly blissful balance of frenzy and melodics and Elvin is
> positively on fire....any info would be so appreciated.
>
> I remain...
>
> Joseph
>
> NP: Matthew Shipp- "Pastoral Composure" CD
> NR: John Hawkes- "Lunar Landscapes"
>


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:Houle/Kang/van der Schyff
Date: 20 Feb 2002 17:12:11 -0600

Thanks for the reminder of this trio's Points in Time CD.

Now y'all will see how far ahead I've been programming Mappings in
advance of our imminent server change.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: The Gift / Re: Fwd: Tomahawk?
Date: 20 Feb 2002 23:03:40 +0100

Hi EfrΘn!

I think I'll go - even though it means I have to cancel a DJing gig...

Would love to see "The Gift" performed live; but I'll be in South East
Asia by 8 March...

Just like you, I've also only just really gotten into the CD - about
three days ago I started listening to it a lot. Some great & fun pieces
on it. Needless to say, I'm VERY much into Ribot's contributions & also
Jamie Saft's.

patRice

np: Fantomas, Director's Cut
nr: Plato, Symposium


EfrΘn del Valle wrote:

> Pat,
>
> Go! I wouldn't put it at such a high level as that of
> FNM but it's a Patton live performance and I wouldn't
> miss it for anything. I didn't like the record but
> I'll go to their concert in Barcelona on March 8,
> that's for sure.
> I'm even thinking of going to London to see Zorn's
> "The Gift" in March -if I'm not wrong-. I finally fell
> in love with the record although I hated it in the
> first place. Anyone knows where I can get more info of
> this concert? (ticket sales, prices, reservations,
> etc...).

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ricardo Reis <[e-mail]>
Subject: help: cambodiand rocks
Date: 17 Feb 2002 19:54:34 +0000 (WET)

    [editor: they sell it at midheaven.com]

    anyone knows how can a get this record? i've come across a
reference to it at:

    http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/reviews/cambodian.htm

            greets,

                 Ricardo Reis

                "Non Serviam"






-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Philip Clarkson <[e-mail]>
Subject: The Gift in London
Date: 20 Feb 2002 23:47:19 +0000

> I'm even thinking of going to London to see Zorn's
> "The Gift" in March -if I'm not wrong-. I finally fell
> in love with the record although I hated it in the
> first place. Anyone knows where I can get more info of
> this concert? (ticket sales, prices, reservations,
> etc...).
>
> Thanks.
>
> Efrn del Valle

Have a look at
http://www.barbican.org.uk/generic/details.asp?eventID=771&artFormID=2&artFo
rm=music

It should be fantastic...

Phil Clarkson



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: help: cambodiand rocks
Date: 20 Feb 2002 18:48:10 EST

I've got the vinyl version of this, which is labeled _Cambodia Rocks_ .  Not sure if the CD has extra cuts or not.  Anyway, the music style here is called "circle music", and it's MOL the Cambodian/regional version of late 60's rock/psych that was playing on American Forces Radio during the 'Nam conflict.  Crazy stuff, unlike anything you've head before in your life, I can guarantee you.  Worth the effort of a search.

--
=dg=

=======================

In a message dated Wed, 20 Feb 2002  6:37:00 PM Eastern Standard Time, Ricardo Reis <[e-mail]> writes:

>     [editor: they sell it at midheaven.com]
>
>     anyone knows how can a get this record? i've come across a
> reference to it at:
>
>     http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/reviews/cambodian.htm
>
>             greets,
>
>                  Ricardo Reis
>
>                 "Non Serviam"
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lang Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: help: cambodiand rocks
Date: 20 Feb 2002 21:18:14 -0500

>    anyone knows how can a get this record? i've come across a
>reference to it at:

Well that review is off my website (for what it's worth the author of the
review now does the Sinners Paradise show on WFMU) so maybe I can help.  I
bought mine from Twisted Village by mail order; last I noticed they still
carried it.  & Forced Exposure had it at one time.

Best, Lang

Adventures In Sound
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures.htm

Outsider Music Mailing List
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/outsider.htm

Documentary Sound
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/adventures/documentary.htm

Full Alert Film Review
http://wlt4.home.mindspring.com/fafr.htm




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: Elton Dean/Soft Machine
Date: 21 Feb 2002 03:43:50 +0000

>From: [e-mail]

>
>For those who are interested, coming in May is "Backwards" by Soft Machine:

Looking forward to that! Kudos to Cuneiform for continuing to release such
great material from this visionary band. Noisette is amazing...

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Elton Dean/Soft Machine
Date: 20 Feb 2002 20:05:27 -0800

on 2/20/02 7:43 PM, thomas chatterton at [e-mail] wrote:

> Kudos to Cuneiform

Here here.  They reissued the complete Stickmen, with video.  This is
something only accomplished by giants.

sh


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Tomahawk
Date: 21 Feb 2002 08:18:08 +0100






> Mike Patton will play in Zurich with his TOMAHAWK project next week.

> Anyone ever seen them live?
> Recommended? Or not worth the trip?

> Can Tomahawk be compared with any of Patton's other projects?

Like just about everyone else, I thought the Tomahawk album was good
but nothing more than that. Then came last weekend's concerts in
Eindhoven and Amsterdam. Both were the absolute bomb, just as good as
Fantomas or Faith No More (Mr.Bungle are still in a league of their
own for me). It's easily Patton's most accessible group to date (even
though it isn't really *his* group). His performance was as mind-blowing
as ever, and they played some very neat improvised parts, some new songs
that blow the debut album to pieces, and a couple of covers, like Roxy
Music's "In Every Dreamhouse a Heartache" and Chet Baker's "Angel Eyes".

Anyone with the slightest interest in contemporary rock music should see
this band rule live.

Frankco






-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Gerd Heinlein <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Slam (was: Elton Dean & others)
Date: 21 Feb 2002 08:11:48 +0100 (MET)

Forwarded message:
> Elton Dean only really grew after his stint with Soft Machine. His OGUN
> records from the seventies might have been re-released, I don't know, but he
> regularly makes albums for Brit label SLAM, run by the great baritone sax
> player George Haslam. I have no idea if these discs are still available. I
> used to write Haslam personally, but we lost track after I moved a couple of
> times.

See   http://members.aol.com/slamprods/

G.Heinlein

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Richard Gardner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Stomu Yamash'ta (No Zorn)
Date: 21 Feb 2002 12:36:50 +0000

Once again a request to all you knowledgeable members of the List.

Does anyone know what happened to Stomu Yamash'ta. I really liked the stuff
he did in the early 70's. The Contemporary Music solo album with stuff by
Henze, Takemitsu and Maxwell Davis was my first introduction into truly
contemporary music for which I am always grateful (and it had a wonderful
cover shot). The album with Come To The Edge "Floating Music" and then the
East Wind recording "Freedom is Frightening" were both good examples of
early jazz-rock as against fusion. I enjoyed his solo "Red Buddha" album but
lost interest after that.

A quick check around the web shows him active in 1990 but nothing since. Is
he still around making music?

If anyone knows I would appreciate an update.

Richard Gardner


-



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From: "Andreas Dietz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: illbient
Date: 21 Feb 2002 16:53:26 +0100


I haven┤t heard any life sign of this genre for months/years. The WE website
isn┤t updated for years. What about Liminal Lounge, Spooky...? Did I miss
something or is illbient history?

Andreas

np: Third Person - The Bends (Knitting Factory) another recommendation for
cello

_________________________________________________________________
Mit MSN Fotos k÷nnen Sie problemlos Ihre Fotos ausdrucken und anderen
Benutzern zur Verfⁿgung stellen: http://photos.msn.de/support/worldwide.aspx


-



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From: Mathieu =?iso-8859-1?Q?B=E9langer?=  <[e-mail]>
Subject: montreal concerts list
Date: 21 Feb 2002 10:57:50 -0500

Hello,

I'm afraid this is mainly of interest for those of you in the
Montreal area... Sorry the lack of universal content.

I've set up a sort of diffusion list to announce the concerts of
avant-garde/experimental/free jazz/electronic/etc. in Montreal and
the area. I've written a little web page with all the details (that I
have to update though):

http://www.cam.org/~magenta/concert.html

Basically, if you'd like to get this weekly email, just let me know
([e-mail]) and I'll add your email to the list.

If you have any questions, just email me ([e-mail]). If
you think others would be interested, you are more than welcome to
forward them the info.

Thank you,

Mathieu

-



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From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: German websites
Date: 21 Feb 2002 17:48:41 +0100 (CET)

HI,

I'm planning a trip to K÷ln within the next two
months approx and would like to make it coincide with
any good concerts or festivals in that area- maybe
also
Bonn or Netherlands. Any websites where I can check
schedules in advance? (maybe too much advance but
just in case...)

Thanks in advance.

Also, thanks for the MazzaCane recs. I'll buy a
couple albums this weekend. I'm really intrigued.

Best,

EfrΘn del Valle

_______________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Messenger
> Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
> http://messenger.yahoo.es
>

_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: hendrix bluegrass
Date: 21 Feb 2002 12:13:08 EST

In a message dated 2/20/02 11:22:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< i'm all but certain the banjo-pickin hendrix disc is called 'pickin on
 hendrix'. there's a series of them, pickin' on aerosmith, others. they're,
 uh, not deep, but fun enough and the playing's ok. the only reason i have a
 few is that it's not too hard to find them for about $2. >>

I want to say that Tony Trishka is one involved in the CD I was thinking
about.  _Pickin' on Hendrix_ doesn't sound familiar...

--
np: Greyboy All Stars- A Town Called Earth

=dg=

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: David Keffer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Review:  David Grubbs
Date: 21 Feb 2002 13:11:43 -0500


After the demise of gastr del sol in 1998, I picked up the solo efforts by
both David Grubbs and Jim O'Rourke.  The list has discussed O'Rourke
plenty, but there hasn't been much noise regarding Grubbs.  Well, when they
came out, I had picked up Grubbs' "Banana Cabbage, Potato Lettuce, Onion
Orange" (Table of the Elements. 1997) and "The Thicket" (Drag City, 1998).
The former is a semi-minimalist instrumental album that is well suited to
what was the Table of the Elements esthetic.  The latter was a collection
of gastr-del-sol-like songs of sub-gastr-del-sol quality.  With the latter,
I stopped.  (O'Rourke has also released collections of pop songs of
sub-gastr-del-sol quality, which leads one to believe that there was a
synergistic effect in gastr del sol.)

Anyway, over the past five years, Grubbs continued to release on the label
Blue Chopsticks (which appears to be Grubbs' own imprint on Drag City).  I
would read the press releases on these discs and they were frequently very
interesting but I did not sample the fruits.  I am one of those sorts of
people with the bad habit of listening to a particular musician for too
long, release after release, until they have not only started to suck, but
established themselves as king of the hill of suckery.  To counteract that
impulse, I really make an effort of will to stop with an artist, when I
first start to detect a downward trend.  That said, the latest release on
Blue Chopsticks featured Grubbs in collaboration with Tony Conrad et al.,
whom I like enough to take a chance on.  Now, in doing that, my will
crumbled and I also picked up two earlier Grubb releases on Blue
Chopsticks, which I had passed on at the time of release.  With that
entirely unnecessary forward, we now get to the heart of the matter which
is a three-in-one review of

David Grubbs & Mats Gustafsson:  Apertura (Blue Chopsticks, BC2, 1999)
David Grubbs:  The Coxcomb (Blue Chopsticks, BC5, 2000)
David Grubbs (w/ Tony Conrad):  Act Five, Scene One (Blue Chopsticks, BC9,
2002)

Mats Gustafsson plays a flute fitted with a reed that he calls the
fluteophone.  He has appeared in all sorts of ensembles including
incidentally a duet with O'Rourke on Incus, Xylophonen Virtuosen, (Incus
38, 1999).  Anyway, "Apertura" features fluteophone with Grubbs on
harmonium (which is a reed organ).  Two half hour tracks of breezy drone.
Very fine as such.  Not intrusive but not completely ignorable.  Low
pitched and soothing.  Not at all, for example, like a Tony Conrad drone.
Ok, ok, ok.  I can say nothing more useful about it except that I liked it.

In addition to Tony Conrad, "Act Five, Scene One" also features Dan Brown
on drums.  This album is Grubbs' solution to expanding a four and a half
minute track, which had been selected to be played over the sound system as
part of an art installation, to a 60 minute cycle.  The motivation being
that a 4.5 minute song repeated over and over again would drive the gallery
personnel crazy, whereas a 60 minute song would be more tolerable.  So, 4.5
minutes appears twice in the 60 minutes, at the beginning and at the half
hour mark.  The remaining 51 minutes is filler.  It doesn't sound
promising, except that the filler is really as interesting as the original
4.5 minute piece.  Calling it filler is a subjective term anyway since, if
the minimalist drone on "Apertura" constitutes a legitimate piece of music
(which of course it does!!!--Heaven forbid I restart that thread.), then
certainly the music between the 4.5 minute piece also is a work in its own
right, despite Grubbs' liner notes to the contrary.  Anyway, the 4.5 minute
piece is some gastr del sol styled Grubbs on electric guitar--not too
shabby, but not too ground-breaking.  As for Tony Conrad, his presence is
minimal.  (That's not a pun; his violin isn't present on much of the cd.)
While listening to "Act Five, Scene One", what I really felt was a longing
to listen to gastr del sol's "The Harp Factory on Lake Street" (Table of
the Elements, 1995) instead, which has a similar structure.  That's really
not a very positive thing to say about this album. I know that.

The Coxcomb is an adaptation of Stephen Crane's "The Blue Hotel" to music.
It is not an instrumental interpretation.  It has all sorts of lyrics
(presumably from the original source) over the top of it.  Well, as I think
back, I try to recall any instances where such adaptation efforts proved
successful, in my opinion of course.  I think usually they are too
artsy-fartsy for my tastes.  Only one good example could I think of.  There
is a 1970s Walt Disney lp that has a narrative (by Sterling Holloway aka
Winnie the Pooh) of "Peter and the Wolf" over the music of Prokofiev, which
still sounds great today.  Other than that, adaptations with narration
suck.  (Perhaps this will generate emails with examples to the contrary.)
I tried to be open minded with "The Coxcomb", but my gag reflex was
automatically triggered during several wretched highlights in the piece.  I
made it all the way through once.  No more needs be said.  (Except that the
totally unrelated B-side, "Avocado Orange" is pretty good.)

The bottom line remains:  Was it a worthwhile expenditure of time and money
to check out these three releases by Grubbs?  Or, would I have been just as
satisifed to have stopped after "The Thicket" in 1997?  Hard to say.
Because you can't expect every piece of music to have some king of
monumental impact on you, I think the difficulty in answering the questions
points to a positive response:  Yes, odds are it was worthwhile.

David K.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: German websites
Date: 21 Feb 2002 20:56:56 +0100

Efren,
Try to find out whether the Koln Loft Scene has anything going in Cologne.
This is a group of people doing good stuff over there. Frank Gratkowski is
one of them. If you know people who have something to do with the Moers New
Music Festival, contact them: last year, the Moers festival had a special
room (the famous Moers gymnastic classroom) dedicated to the current Cologne
scene, who also put out ltd edition cd's with their latest developments (my
sister bought some last year).

Also try to visit the A-Musik shop (sorry, no address, try the net), these
A-Musik guys lead you the way in their city. Cologne is great for cd-shops,
also modern classical.

For Dutch concerts, Koln might be a good city to approach the following
places:
Maastricht (jazz oriented mostly)
Eindhoven (good place: Wilhelmina, every monday)
Nijmegen (a new really experimental stage that goes by the name of
EXTRAPOOL, try to seek them out on the net)


improvised concerts in the Netherlands can be found at: www.jazzserver.org

Good luck, and good fun
Remco Takken




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: illbient
Date: 21 Feb 2002 16:06:37 EST

There used to be a We mailing list that myself and some other zorn-list meme=
bers were part of. It seems to have disappeared. The last label We was on wa=
s Jungle Sky/Liquid Sky, DJ Soulslinger=92s label. They seem to have gone aw=
ay. There website is no more and there was some controversy over payment of=20=
artists, in particular 187/Jordana. Soulslinger is supposed to play some big=
 ass rave in NY in march (along with many others) so he=92s still working. A=
nyway, DJ Spooky is still touring and puttin out records and DJ Olive still=20=
shows up on recordings and gigs (Kim Gordon come to mind).

Here are some related labels with illbient type (or affiliated) artists:

 http://www.sound-ink.com/

http://www.bsi-records.com/

http://www.ismrecords.com/

If anyone knows anything more about what happened I=92d be interested in hea=
ring.

Footnote: Kim Gordon=92s SYR5 is really cool except for one major flaw, Kim=20=
Gordon. Ikue Mori and DJ Olive sound great together but when Kim sings it=
=92s all over IMHO.

-Eric


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Vuilleumier=2C_St=E9phane=22?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: cassette archeology
Date: 21 Feb 2002 23:32:07 +0100

I was wondering if someone somewhere would be=20
crazy enough to sell cassette audio tapes ("commercial"
ones, I mean) of experimental music - and even=20
perhaps to have a website for the stuff.
The things I'd be looking for would be familiar to
this list I guess, e.g.=20

AGAINST NO WALL: Rebby Sharp
    1987 (?) - Artifacts (USA), Yclept #13013 (CT)

PASSED NORMAL VOL. #3: various artists
    1988 - FOT Records/Home Recordings (USA), Vol. #3 (CT)

or early Chadbournes tapes etc.

Thanks for any input...

St=E9phane


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Alan Marshall" <[e-mail]>
Subject: re:Tomahawk?
Date: 20 Feb 2002 21:54:47 -0000

Hi

I saw FNM with Patton a few times in UK, both at festivals and small venues
they were excellent.

Last year, and a few years ago I saw Mr Bungle, again excellent.

Last year and year before I saw Fantomas which were you guessed it
excellent. Patton goes from playing up his rock star image to hating it, to
loving it somehow seamlessly! So I would say go see Tomahawk, especially if
you're a Jesus Lizard fan and/or a FNM/Patton fan. The music is more like
Jesus Lizard than FNM, but any show fronted by Patton is not to be missed
IMHO ;)

For tickets for the Zorn Barbican show go to www.barbican.org.uk I've only
seen Zorn once before live and that was at the Barbican 2 yrs ago. I enjoyed
that show so much I had to buy tickets for this one as soon as they were on
sale :)

It was extra interesting seeing Lombardo drum with Zorn at that date, then
with Fantomas a month or so later. Damn that guy's versatile!

Cheers

Al

> ------------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 17:17:54 +0100 (CET)
> From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Fwd: Tomahawk?
>
> Pat,
>
> Go! I wouldn't put it at such a high level as that of
> FNM but it's a Patton live performance and I wouldn't
> miss it for anything. I didn't like the record but
> I'll go to their concert in Barcelona on March 8,
> that's for sure.
> I'm even thinking of going to London to see Zorn's
> "The Gift" in March -if I'm not wrong-. I finally fell
> in love with the record although I hated it in the
> first place. Anyone knows where I can get more info of
> this concert? (ticket sales, prices, reservations,
> etc...).
>
> Thanks.
>
> EfrΘn del Valle
> >
> > Yeah... normaly they would have played in strasbourg
> > yesterday but it
> > was canceled... Fucking bad for me... But in fact
> > tomahawk is for me
> > a kind of new faith no more... So i like them it s
> > fun it reminds me
> > highschool...
> > A
> >
> >
> > >Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 16:32:06 +0100
> > >From: patRice <[e-mail]>
> > >Reply-To: [e-mail]
> > >X-Accept-Language: en
> > >To: Zornlist <[e-mail]>
> > >Subject: Tomahawk?
> > >Sender: [e-mail]
> > >
> > >
> > >Hey boys and girls
> > >
> > >Mike Patton will play in Zurich with his TOMAHAWK
> > project next week.
> > >
> > >Anyone ever seen them live?
> > >Recommended? Or not worth the trip?
> > >
> > >Can Tomahawk be compared with any of Patton's other
> > projects?
> > >
> > >Thanks for your help.
> > >
> > >patRice
> > >
> > >np: John Zorn, The Gift
> > >nr: Howard Marks, Mr. Nice
> > >
> > >
> > >-
> >



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jeni Dahmus" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Tomahawk?
Date: 21 Feb 2002 17:46:35 -0500

I found Tomahawk's live show disappointing. Perhaps something is wrong
with me... I enjoyed the beginning of the concert but became bored
later. The band was tight, Patton's voice was superb as usual, and he
was entertaining all dolled up in his half shirt and make-up. Yet the
performance, like the CD, felt somewhat predictable. After repeated
listenings, a few of the tracks have grown on me -- especially Point and
Click. In my opinion Tomahawk does not compare to Fantomas or Mr.
Bungle.

Nevertheless, I would see Tomahawk again should the opportunity arise. I
skipped the Lovage concert though (probably shouldn't admit this). My
reaction to Tomahawk's show may be due to the spoiled New Yorker
syndrome. I've been fortunate to see Mike Patton's various projects on a
regular basis.=20

Re: the Gift. I enjoyed the live performance more than the album.=20

Jeni

> -----Original Message-----
> From: patRice [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 10:32 AM
> To: Zornlist
> Subject: Tomahawk?
>=20
> Hey boys and girls
>=20
> Mike Patton will play in Zurich with his TOMAHAWK project next week.
>=20
> Anyone ever seen them live?
> Recommended? Or not worth the trip?
>=20
> Can Tomahawk be compared with any of Patton's other projects?
>=20
> Thanks for your help.
>=20
> patRice
>=20
> np: John Zorn, The Gift
> nr: Howard Marks, Mr. Nice

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Stomu Yamash'ta (No Zorn)
Date: 21 Feb 2002 19:44:30 -0500

At 12:36 PM 2/21/02 +0000, Richard Gardner wrote:
>
>A quick check around the web shows him active in 1990 but nothing since. Is
>he still around making music?
>
>If anyone knows I would appreciate an update.

He performed at the Sacred Rhythm Festival in Bali at the millenium,
although I can't find any details of the performance.
--

Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Mike Rizzi <[e-mail]>
Subject: ZORN-LIST ADMINISTRATION (Please Read Me)
Date: 21 Feb 2002 17:02:25 -0800 (PST)


I'm going out of town for the next 10 days,
and won't be monitoring zorn-list administrative
requests...Sooooo, if you are having trouble
getting off the list, or your HUGE email isn't
being delivered to everyone else, or you use
special words (like s-u-b-s-c-r-i-b-e, c-a-n-c-el,
or h-e-l-p) it's not a conspiracy.  ;)

Also, sometime after I get back, we'll be firing
up MailMan and making the migration.

Also also, play nice....or I'll kick your asses.

mike

[e-mail]
-----
"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic
hallway where thieves and pimps run free, and good men die like dogs.
There's also a negative side."     -- Hunter S. Thompson


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Adam Rock" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Evan Parker - Keith Rowe Collaborations
Date: 22 Feb 2002 13:18:36 +1100

Have Evan Parker and Keith Rowe performed on any albums together other than
"Dark Rags" and "Supersession"?

Thanks in advance,

Adam


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Bladerunner 5/21/01 Victoriaville CDR(s)
Date: 21 Feb 2002 23:05:16 EST

Anyone know if this is on 1 disc or 2?  Thanx.

Ray


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Albrecht Koschnik <[e-mail]>
Subject: [no-JZ] coltrane live in europe
Date: 21 Feb 2002 23:47:46 -0500 (EST)

Can somebody comment on the new or newish Pablo release, Coltrane--'Live
Trane, The European Tours'?!  According to the ad I've seen, this is a 7CD
set, Stockholm, Paris, Berlin, Hamburg, Stuttgart, 1961-63; supposedly ca.
20 tracks [?] *not* on previous Pablo Coltrane releases.

(Has this been discussed before?  My memory ...)

So far, I've avoided all this European live material in favor of the
Vanguard box.  Should I reconsider??  While I'm a big enough Coltrane
fan to enjoy a couple more versions of 'My Favorite Things,'
'Impressions,' etc., what do we get from these dates--solos, otherwise
unavailable titles, and the like--that's not to be found elsewhere.  What
about sound quality--can we hear Garrison and Tyner moderately well?  (the
entry on allmusic.com mumbles something about problems on this count)

As always: thanks, Albrecht


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andreas Dietz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: German websites
Date: 22 Feb 2002 09:08:20 +0100


the only website I know is www.stadtgarten.de

some concerts are:

18th March  Wayne Horvitz Zony Mash @ K÷ln, Stadtgarten
23th April  Tim Berne Hard Cell @ K÷ln, Stadtgarten
27th April  WDR Orchestra premier of Dave Douglas: In Twilight Found
            w/ Dave Douglas, Erik Friedlander, Michael Sarin, Drew Gress,
Bryan Carrott @ K÷ln

Andreas

>I'm planning a trip to K÷ln within the next two
>months approx and would like to make it coincide with
>any good concerts or festivals in that area- maybe
>also
>Bonn or Netherlands. Any websites where I can check
>schedules in advance? (maybe too much advance but
>just in case...)


_________________________________________________________________
Werden Sie Mitglied bei MSN Hotmail, dem gr÷▀ten E-Mail-Service der Welt.
http://www.hotmail.com/de


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Richard Gardner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Stomu Yamash'ta (No Zorn)
Date: 22 Feb 2002 08:17:19 +0000

on 22/2/02 12:44 AM, Caleb T. Deupree at [e-mail] wrote:

> He performed at the Sacred Rhythm Festival in Bali at the millenium,
> although I can't find any details of the performance.

Thanks Caleb.

A slightly deeper search found:
Stomu Yamash'ta, percussion virtuoso, Kyoto, Japan
as a judge in the 1998-1999  UNESCO Prize for the Promotion of the Arts
Awards.

Shame, as he is obviously still active, that there has been no distributed
music for so long.

Steve, may be a new project for Cuneiform?

Richard Gardner


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: mwoodwor <[e-mail]>
Subject: Shuggie in Austin Texas
Date: 22 Feb 2002 08:33:30 -0400

Hi there everyone - can anyone give me some good rec's of any music
spots or shops in Austin Texas - going to be there from March 6-10.

BTW thanks to however mentioned how good this Shuggie Otis reissue is -
I had never heard of him, but put it on after the Stangl/Kurzmann on
Erstwhile, and my brain is happy (whata double-bill)......

thanks for any advice,

mike


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Shuggie in Austin Texas
Date: 22 Feb 2002 07:42:05 -0600

Waterloo Records is a big warehouse type setting for a record store.
Famous for putting everything together and separating genre by colored
dots.
http://www.waterloorecords.com/

Thirty Three Degrees is a small little shop but is very Zorn list friendly

http://www.thirtythreedegrees.com/

Unfortunately, Mark Dresser will be coming to Austin with his bass the
day after you leave.

James


At 08:33 AM 2/22/2002 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi there everyone - can anyone give me some good rec's of any music
>spots or shops in Austin Texas - going to be there from March 6-10.
>
>BTW thanks to however mentioned how good this Shuggie Otis reissue is -
>I had never heard of him, but put it on after the Stangl/Kurzmann on
>Erstwhile, and my brain is happy (whata double-bill)......
>
>thanks for any advice,
>
>mike
>
>
>-


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [no-JZ] coltrane live in europe
Date: 22 Feb 2002 10:12:15 -0500

Before you go further you should see the material on David Wild's Web site
<home.att.net/~dawild/index.htm> regarding the real origin of the
material on
the box.

The sound varies: Dolphy is not terribly well recorded on any of his
contributions. The rhythm section is muffled on a couple of sessions.
Garrison's humming is prominent on at least one session.

All that aside, there's some great stuff on it, and I think it's
important in
that it captures Trane in transition.

Here's the summary paragraph from a forthcoming review of it:

<<Live Trane captures a man in transition, moving rapidly to reach into
regions where no musician had previously gone. For all it flaws of sub-par
sound and botched cataloguing, this set is represents an essential document
for anyone interested in ColtraneÆs evolution, as well as the shift in jazz
from reliance on the American popular songbook to extended forms of
improvisation.>>

Hope all that helps you with your buying decision.

James Hale

Albrecht Koschnik wrote:

> Can somebody comment on the new or newish Pablo release, Coltrane--'Live
> Trane, The European Tours'?!

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Evan Parker - Keith Rowe Collaborations
Date: 22 Feb 2002 09:10:04 -0800


On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:18:36 +1100  "Adam Rock" wrote:
>
> Have Evan Parker and Keith Rowe performed on any albums together other than
> "Dark Rags" and "Supersession"?

That's all I know.

    Patrice.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: A Tribe Called Quest (NZC!)
Date: 22 Feb 2002 18:39:16 +0100


Hi y'all...

For some time now I've wanted to buy a CD or two by A Tribe Called
Quest.

Any recommendations?

Thanks!!!

patRice

np: Mr. Bungle, Mr. Bungle
nr: Alex Kerr, Dogs & Demons


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: A Tribe Called Quest (NZC!)
Date: 22 Feb 2002 12:38:40 -0500

> Hi y'all...
>
> For some time now I've wanted to buy a CD or two by A Tribe Called
> Quest.
> Any recommendations?

"The Low End Theory" is their masterpiece- it's the jazziest, and has the
best songs. But don't overlook "people's instinctive travels.....", their
debut- it truly catches them at their freshest, and has some classic songs.

The recently released "Anthology" is a good, comprehensive "greatest hits"
type deal........

But Tribe has some real stinkers in their discog....so beware their
catalogue after "the low end theory..."

horton


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: A Tribe Called Quest (NZC!)
Date: 22 Feb 2002 12:52:14 EST

i second the 'low end theory'...  but my biggest tribe reccomendation has to
be the CD that's been on nonstop play in my car for almost a week now -
'people's instinctive travels and the paths of rhythm'...  it's a really
great album, with (mostly) intelligent lyrics, and some silliness so it
doesn't drag you down.  the tune 'go ahead in the rain' really rocks out, as
does about 98% of the rest of the album.

love,
  k8.



---
[.n0thing.is.what.is.said.]
k a t e  p e t e r s o n
c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r

http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html
http://www.icefoundation.org (roundtable)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: A Tribe Called Quest (NZC!)
Date: 22 Feb 2002 09:59:14 -0800

on 2/22/02 9:38 AM, Andrew at [e-mail] wrote:

> "The Low End Theory" is their masterpiece- it's the jazziest, and has the
> best songs. But don't overlook "people's instinctive travels.....", their
> debut- it truly catches them at their freshest, and has some classic songs.

I recommend the debut myself.  The songs are my favorite, and the sonic
aspect is gorgeous.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Backwards Score
Date: 22 Feb 2002 14:23:44 -0500

My friend showed me a score by Gene Gutche where all of the notes are
written backwards (the stems are facing the opposite direction and when
they should be facing up they are facing down).  Does any one know
anything more of this piece like why it was written as such?

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jason tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: livemusic in boston this weekend?
Date: 22 Feb 2002 11:27:07 -0800 (PST)

Do any bostonians have any favorite venues or specific gigs going on
this weekend that would be of interest?

I am so music starved moving from nyc up to nothern nh, all we have up
here are local folk singers.

Jay

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Fred Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Backwards Score
Date: 22 Feb 2002 11:45:29 -0800

on 2/22/02 11:23 AM, Zachary Steiner at [e-mail] wrote:

> My friend showed me a score by Gene Gutche where all of the notes are
> written backwards (the stems are facing the opposite direction and when
> they should be facing up they are facing down).  Does any one know
> anything more of this piece like why it was written as such?
>
> Zach
>
>
>
> -
>
Back thru the 1800s, that seemed to be a standard European method of stem
placement.

sh


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Coleman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: livemusic in boston this weekend?
Date: 22 Feb 2002 11:55:40 -0800 (PST)

2/23  [sat]     8:00pm
@ The Zeitgeist Gallery 312 Broadway in Cambridge, MA
$6

Liz Tonne - voice  ( solo )

Sean Meehan - percussion
James Coleman - theremin
David Gross - alto saxophone | clarinet





=====
James Coleman - Theremin
Http://www.zuihitsu.net/

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bob Kowalski" <[e-mail]>
Subject:  BIPED
Date: 22 Feb 2002 15:18:01 -0500

Has any Zornsters heard the new Gavin Bryars disc BIPED?  I'm wondering if =
its worth drumming up an international money order for $25 (via his www =
site seems to be the sole place to get it.)   Have heard a couple of =
positive comparisons to Glass's Mishima although I haven't gotten around =
to listening to that either.

too busy sitting in the dark listening to that dang wonderful Mullholland =
Drive soundtrack   ; )

Bob


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Naked City
Date: 22 Feb 2002 15:25:45 -0500

Is Naked City Live at KF really coming out on Tuesday?  Or is that the
old release date?

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: [no-JZ] coltrane live in europe
Date: 22 Feb 2002 15:27:44 -0500 (EST)

Albrecht:

Seems to me that I just read a recent review by
Coltrane scholar David Wild that disputed that this
was all "*not* on previous Pablo Coltrane releases".
Also one set of tracks was supposedly recorded in the
U.S. and mislabelled as European dates. [His website,
which I think is ww.wildmusic.com -- or do a search]
may have more details.

As for the recording quality, considering they're live
sessions, I'd listen to soem earlier Coltrane Pablo
CDs or LPs to compare. If you like how that sounds ...

Hope this helps.

Ken Waxman

--- Albrecht Koschnik <[e-mail]> wrote:
> Can somebody comment on the new or newish Pablo
> release, Coltrane--'Live Trane, The European
Tours'?!  According to the ad I've seen, this is a 7CD
> set, Stockholm, Paris, Berlin, Hamburg, Stuttgart,
> 1961-63; supposedly ca.
> 20 tracks [?] *not* on previous Pablo Coltrane
> releases.
>


=====
Ken Waxman
[e-mail]
www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos

______________________________________________________________________
Web-hosting solutions for home and business! http://website.yahoo.ca

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Grey ElkGel <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: livemusic in boston this weekend?
Date: 22 Feb 2002 12:35:25 -0800 (PST)

try here:

http://members.aol.com/tautology3/BossImpCal.html

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Evan Parker - Keith Rowe Collaborations
Date: 22 Feb 2002 15:38:36 -0500 (EST)


And discographer Patrice forgot to add if he doesn't
know about it, the only other people who could would
be Messers. Parker and Rowe. :)

Ken Waxman

--- "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
wrote:
>
> On Fri, 22 Feb 2002 13:18:36 +1100  "Adam Rock"
> wrote:
> >
> > Have Evan Parker and Keith Rowe performed on any
> albums together other than "Dark Rags" and
"Supersession"?
>
> That's all I know.
>
>     Patrice.



=====
Ken Waxman
[e-mail]
www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos

______________________________________________________________________
Web-hosting solutions for home and business! http://website.yahoo.ca

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Perfect Sound Forever <[e-mail]>
Subject: Subject: Re: A Tribe Called Quest (NZC!)
Date: 22 Feb 2002 16:36:19 -0500

"Low End Theory" is indeed a great album.  If you're starting out, "Anthology" is a great record too
and a good intro to them.

Best,
Jason
--

Perfect Sound Forever
online music magazine
[e-mail]
http://www.furious.com/perfect



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Flaming Creatures
Date: 22 Feb 2002 16:43:56 EST

Has anyone on the list ever purchased, or even seen, Jack Smith's film
Flaming Creatures on video?  I have been assured many times that it has been
released on video, always it seems by folks who never actually bought one or
ever saw it in a store.  Any help would be really appreciated.

Thanks,
Jerry

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "William York" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: cassette archeology
Date: 22 Feb 2002 22:59:22

>From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Vuilleumier=2C_St=E9phane=22?=
><[e-mail]>
>Subject: cassette archeology

>I was wondering if someone somewhere would be=20 crazy enough to sell
> >cassette audio tapes ("commercial" ones, I mean) of experimental >music
>-and even=20 perhaps to have a website for the stuff. The things >I'd be
>looking for would be familiar to this list I guess, e.g.=20

>AGAINST NO WALL: Rebby Sharp
    1987 (?) - Artifacts (USA), Yclept #13013 (CT)

>PASSED NORMAL VOL. #3: various artists
    1988 - FOT Records/Home Recordings (USA), Vol. #3 (CT)

>or early Chadbournes tapes etc.

Hey,

I'm posting this to the list in case anyone else is interested.... Amoeba in
San Francisco (and Berkeley) sells used cassettes -- I have seen plenty of
old Chadbourne and Zorn (Nonesuch era) tapes. Not sure about those others,
but it's possible. If anyone wants to make a list I suppose I can check next
time I'm there. They also have used copies of the out of print Tim Berne JMT
albums now and then, for reasonable prices ($10-12).

Your humble servant,

WY


_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Michael Brooker <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Naked City
Date: 22 Feb 2002 16:05:10 -0800 (PST)


--- Zachary Steiner <[e-mail]> wrote:
> Is Naked City Live at KF really coming out on
> Tuesday?  Or is that the
> old release date?
>
> Zach
>
>
>
> -
>


The release date has changed to 04/23/02 :(

Mike


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Michael Brooker <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Flaming Creatures
Date: 22 Feb 2002 16:08:18 -0800 (PST)


--- [e-mail] wrote:
> Has anyone on the list ever purchased, or even seen,
> Jack Smith's film
> Flaming Creatures on video?  I have been assured
> many times that it has been
> released on video, always it seems by folks who
> never actually bought one or
> ever saw it in a store.  Any help would be really
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> Jerry

I've never really searched for it at all, but from
what clips I've seen it looks interesting. I
discovered it from the John Waters Docu "Divine Trash"
where he basically talks about how it inspired his
early works. They show some clips as well as feature a
mini-interview with Smith. Worth checking out.

MB

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: A day that will live in infamy
Date: 22 Feb 2002 23:38:28 EST


--part1_8c.14604b5b.29a876c4_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 2/22/02 7:06:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> The release date has changed to 04/23/02 :(
>
> Mike
>

While I'm disappointed for the Naked City delay, I'm glad it's coming out on
the same day as the new Wilco and Elvis Costello discs.

Counting the days,
tom

--part1_8c.14604b5b.29a876c4_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/22/02 7:06:10 PM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">The release date has changed to 04/23/02 :(<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
While I'm disappointed for the Naked City delay, I'm glad it's coming out on the same day as the new Wilco and Elvis Costello discs.<BR>
<BR>
Counting the days,<BR>
tom</FONT></HTML>

--part1_8c.14604b5b.29a876c4_boundary--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Cartoon
Date: 22 Feb 2002 23:48:12 -0600

Certainly Zorn-related, Chuck Jones died today.

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/020222/220262_1.html

m
http://craque.net

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Michael Brooker <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: A day that will live in infamy
Date: 23 Feb 2002 06:33:20 -0800 (PST)


--- [e-mail] wrote:
> In a message dated 2/22/02 7:06:10 PM Eastern
> Standard Time,
> [e-mail] writes:
>
>
> > The release date has changed to 04/23/02 :(
> >
> > Mike
> >
>
> While I'm disappointed for the Naked City delay, I'm
> glad it's coming out on
> the same day as the new Wilco and Elvis Costello
> discs.
>
> Counting the days,
> tom
>

Well, something else to look forward to would be Yuka
Honda's album that comes out this Tuesday.

Mike


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tim Blechmann <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fennesz: Il Libro Mio
Date: 23 Feb 2002 17:38:48 +0100

i just came across a 3-inch disc "Il Libro Mio" by Christian Fennesz.
Is it worth ordering?

 Tim                          mailto:[e-mail]
                              ICQ: 96771783
                              http://nyds-exp-discogs.covers.de/
--
The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live,
mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time,
the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn,
burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across
the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and
everybody goes "Awww!"


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Adam Rock" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Xenakis - "Palimpsest"
Date: 24 Feb 2002 14:24:48 +1100

Just come across a copy of Xenakis' "Palimpsest" whilst browsing through the
online catalogue of an independent record store. Is this CD worth investing
in? Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

Adam


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Lang Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Film stills--publicity photos
Date: 24 Feb 2002 00:26:31 -0500

>theoretical questions.  For example, our campus copy shops will not
>reproduce directly from books or other print sources without
>permission, but they will reproduce already-copied pages.  So, if a
>person makes a photocopy from a text and then takes it to the shop,
>it's no problem.  I suppose that any burden of copyright violation has
>been removed from the copy shop by at least one step--to the person who
>made the copy.

This is an odd idea.  The copy shop would actually still be violating
copyright no matter how many generations are removed.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tim Blechmann <[e-mail]>
Subject: fred frith: stone, brick, glass, wood, wire
Date: 24 Feb 2002 13:12:08 +0100

any comments on this recording:

STONE, BRICK, GLASS, WOOD, WIRE (GRAPHIC SCORES 1986-1996): Fred Frith

is it worth buying?

 Tim                          mailto:[e-mail]
                              ICQ: 96771783
                              http://nyds-exp-discogs.covers.de/
--
The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live,
mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time,
the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn,
burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across
the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and
everybody goes "Awww!"


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: fred frith: stone, brick, glass, wood, wire
Date: 24 Feb 2002 19:31:41 +0100




> any comments on this recording:
>
> STONE, BRICK, GLASS, WOOD, WIRE (GRAPHIC SCORES 1986-1996): Fred Frith
>
> is it worth buying?
>
>  Tim                          mailto:[e-mail]
SBGWW (on Angelica records) always feels like a problematic live recording
to me. Even if you've been to one of those shows (I attended the Groningen
gig), it doesn't give you exactly what you would expect from a big
semi-improvising orchestra led by the composer himself.

This double cd set is made up of 5 different sound sources from years of
playing these scores. The title says 10 years, but the actual cd consists of
music dating from 1992 till 1996. Even this reduction resulted in an endless
patchwork of snippets with varying sound quality, and mismatching tonal
colours.

Frith's Graphic Scores musically fall between his improv work, and his
compositional/ orchestral projects, making it an interesting title in his
oeuvre. However: recording orchestras requires more than a cassette
recorder, or even an ADAT machine, in order to sound great in your living
room.

Solists and improvisers in these big line-up get drowned easily in the
slightly muffled sound. Ofcourse, Chris Cutler and Han Bennink are easy to
pick out on these live sessions: they make sure they are audible, that may
even be part of their percussion style.

But buying the record because a young Paolo Angeli, or Daan Vandewalle is
playing on it, might not be the wisest thing: they are not exactly exposed
well.

SBGWW is a document, no more, no less, be it with a great booklet including
all of the photographs the musicians used as 'scores'.  I had to pay $50 to
get an imported copy...

Still, if Winter&Winter or Tzadik decided to produce a new version, recorded
with a consistent line-up in a beautiful recording space, I would definitely
buy it again. Now I am holding on to my rarely played Angelica-discs.

Regards, Remco Takken


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Xenakis - "Palimpsest"
Date: 24 Feb 2002 20:38:57 +0000

>From: "Adam Rock" <[e-mail]>

>Just come across a copy of Xenakis' "Palimpsest" whilst browsing through
>the
>online catalogue of an independent record store. Is this CD worth investing
>in?

I would recommend this CD without reservation (if it's the one on Wergo with
Epei/Dikhthas/Akanthos), 2 instrumental ensemble pieces expertly played by
the group Spectrum (Barry Guy's on bass for Palimpsest), a piano violin duo
with Claude Helffer & Irvine Arditti, and a work for soprano voice &
ensemble. Wonderfully dense, slyly abstract stuff played with fire and
obvious enthusiasm...

np: Xenakis Epei

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Broadway
Date: 25 Feb 2002 11:06:57 -0500

What do you zornlisters think of Broadway and musical theatre in
general?  I just had the displeasure of attending a chorus concert in
which they had some guest singers that specialized in ghastly belting
(they quite ruined "Summertime" for me).  It's not that I don't enjoy
belting (love it when Patton does it), but in show tunes it doesn't do
it for me.  I know lots of people who enjoy show tunes quite a bit and I
have no problem with those people, but I never quite understood them
myself.  It's not a lack of experience, I've listened to countless
recordings and have seen a couple on stage (the least favorite being Les
Miserable).  If some could explain what I'm missing, I would be
appreciative, but if I'm not missing anything that's alright too.

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: jason tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Broadway
Date: 25 Feb 2002 08:57:58 -0800 (PST)

the only show I really ejoyed was starlight express, the action and
visual stimulus kept my mind off of the storyline and music, I was also
dreaming about riding my skateboard around the set.

I agree with you, most musicals bore me to the point of anger and
potential agression.

np - steve coleman+5elements: opening of the way

--- Zachary Steiner <[e-mail]> wrote:
> What do you zornlisters think of Broadway and musical theatre in
> general?  I just had the displeasure of attending a chorus concert in
> which they had some guest singers that specialized in ghastly belting
> (they quite ruined "Summertime" for me).


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Broadway
Date: 25 Feb 2002 18:20:18 +0100



> What do you zornlisters think of Broadway and musical theatre in
> general?
>
> Miserable).  If some could explain what I'm missing, I would be
> appreciative, but if I'm not missing anything that's alright too.
>
> Zach
My dilettante approach to Broadway is, now that jazz improvisors tend to
overlook the great new musical songs to improvise over, there's no need for
me to know these contemporary originals anymore. Pop and rock songs might
have taken over this function of  providing a 'meaningful vehicle for deep
soloing over a great tune we all know'.

it is kind of cool to philosophise over how some jazz tenor saxophone player
blows as if he sings you the lyrics through his horn. By knowing the actual
texts as a listener, an extra layer of meaning bubbles up.

when listening to some recent Sonny Rollins cd, I was just lucky to know
Frank Zappa's take on LEILANI, which was so bizarre, I seeked this tune out
to find a Mantovani version, but alas, without lyrics. Rollins is one of
those guys who is capable of completely taking the piss out of a show tune,
and doing something virtuosic and beautiful with it at the same time.

At the moment we don't know the tune, we stop understanding a portion of
what he is trying to say. So, if someone out there knows the lyrics to this
awkward little tune LEILANI, mail me...

That's why I believe it is such a good thing that people like Brad Mehldau,
Yuri Honing, Christof Lauer (and even Frank London) take rock songs into the
jazz world. It is that extra layer of understanding, the unsung lyrics, that
makes playing instrumental verisons of 'songs' so great.

Eh, that's all,
regards, Remco Takken


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: broadway, et. al.
Date: 25 Feb 2002 12:07:12 EST

i haven't been much of a broadway fan since i was a little kid.  but a few
shows stand out as being cool...

lucy simon's the secret garden.

the orchestrations are so amazing for this show, and it's just really well
assembled.  very cool, well done songs, albeit a little cheesy.

the who's tommy.

what do i need to say about tommy??  what a cool realisation of a show for
the stage.

okay, so that's all i can come up with.  every andrew lloyd webber i've seen
has sucked.  the one i haven't seen - song and dance - that i want to, should
plausibly be very cool, though.  i really like ALW's cello variations.  how
funky.  other than his rock opera type stuff (JCSS is pretty cool,
sometimes), his orchestrations suck the proverbial dong.

love,
  k8.



---
[.n0thing.is.what.is.said.]
k a t e  p e t e r s o n
c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r

http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html
http://www.icefoundation.org (roundtable)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Broadway
Date: 25 Feb 2002 09:11:06 -0800

I haven't seen that many musicals - due that I live in L.A.  So my
experience in seeing musicals is really through T.V. variety shows of
the 60's.  On vinyl or C.D. a Broadway show never really caught my
attention.  Now saying all that:

I do love the music of Cole Porter, Rodgers & Hart, Noel Coward (did
he actually wrote a musical?), and the classic composers of Broadway
- but only when a pop or Jazz singer does the material.  And of
course when a Jazz artist covers a Broadway tune.  I never liked it
in the 'Broadway' aesthetic sense.

But still, I admire the art (entertainment) forum that gave birth to
Porter, etc.  I am just not intuned to the actual Broadway aesthetic.

But on the other hand I do adore the  1930's Busby Berkeley musicals on film.
--
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Broadway
Date: 25 Feb 2002 12:00:21 -0600

On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 08:57:58AM -0800, jason tors wrote:
> the only show I really ejoyed was starlight express, the action and
> visual stimulus kept my mind off of the storyline and music, I was also
> dreaming about riding my skateboard around the set.

I felt the same way about "The Phantom of the Opera": wonderful sets
and lighting marred by people insisting on getting in front of them
and singing insipid material.

I think the thing I most dislike about Broadway, musicals, and drama
in general is the imitation of emotion, on an exaggerated scale,
that infests most of it. The pseudo-exuberance of Broadway is just
awful.

OTOH, I just loved the musical episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer
and have been playing a bootleg CD of it endlessly. Go figure.

--
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems        |
|                            http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html |
| Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: broadway, et. al.
Date: 25 Feb 2002 12:03:55 -0600

On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 12:07:12PM -0500, [e-mail] wrote:

> the who's tommy.
>
> what do i need to say about tommy??  what a cool realisation of a show for
> the stage.

Hm. I liked the stagings, but hated the rewriting. What started out as
a rebellious, somewhat spiritual quest story turned into a paean to
middle-class complacency. (Maybe Townshend was on to something in his
early worries about getting old.)

--
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems        |
|                            http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html |
| Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Broadway
Date: 25 Feb 2002 12:19:50 -0600

On Mon, Feb 25, 2002 at 06:20:18PM +0100, Remco Takken wrote:

> At the moment we don't know the tune, we stop understanding a portion of
> what he is trying to say. So, if someone out there knows the lyrics to this
> awkward little tune LEILANI, mail me...

A quick Google search on "leilani lyrics" brought up several instances
of the lyrics, such as at
http://www.kcmetro.cc.mo.us/pennvalley/biology/lewis/crosby/leilani.html

--
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems        |
|                            http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html |
| Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Broadway
Date: 25 Feb 2002 09:33:09 -0800

on 2/25/02 9:20 AM, Remco Takken at [e-mail] wrote:

>
>> What do you zornlisters think of Broadway and musical theatre in
>> general?
>>
>> Miserable).  If some could explain what I'm missing, I would be
>> appreciative, but if I'm not missing anything that's alright too.
>>
>> Zach

Phil's quote about setting Andrew Lloyd Weber's stuff to music aside, I
think a lot of great entertainment came from broadway -- composers like
Porter, Berlin, Rodgers/Hart, Jerome Kern etc.  Of course, most of it was
designed to be completely timely (espec the language), so some of the most
effective stuff to various periods (Rodgers & Hart's I'D RATHER BE RIGHT,
from which "Have You Met Miss Jones" came, is full of Roosevelt jokes, which
don't play so well anymore).  And ON THE TOWN, which I think is genius
stuff, is really dated (and full of refernces to stuff that ain't there no
more).

But I miss erudite musical entertainment for adults, which is something
Rice/Weber never went in for the way Cole Porter did.  The vibe of the
modern Broadway show (RENT notwithstanding) is big spectacle with
contemporary pop music and lots of fireworks, and subsequently does not
invite the participation of facile adult minds with a gift for wit and
language.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: japanese klezmer
Date: 25 Feb 2002 12:42:08 -0500

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?fm20020220a1.htm

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Silent Watcher" <[e-mail]>
Subject: knitting factory/shimmy disc on ebay
Date: 25 Feb 2002 12:58:48 -0500

Hello all,

If anyone is interested, I have a batch of Knitting Factory and Shimmy Disc
CDs up on Ebay. Brainville, No Safety, Zony Mash and others, almost all of
them wrapped and unused.

http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dllMfcISAPICommand=ViewListedItems&userid=slntwtchr&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=25

more to come late in the week.

Dave

(used id is slntwtchr if the link doesn't work...)


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Jeni Dahmus" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE:  BIPED / Xu Feng / Broadway
Date: 25 Feb 2002 13:24:27 -0500

Bob Kowalski wrote:
> Has any Zornsters heard the new Gavin Bryars disc BIPED?  I'm=20
> wondering if its worth drumming up an international money=20
> order for $25 (via his www site seems to be the sole place to=20
> get it.)   Have heard a couple of positive comparisons to=20
> Glass's Mishima although I haven't gotten around to listening=20
> to that either.

I recall seeing the CD for sale at a Merce Cunningham Dance Company
concert. BIPED was not on the program the night I went; I saw RAINFOREST
and INTERSCAPE instead. A friend who attended each concert of the
company's weeklong City Center run said she really enjoyed the music and
choreography of BIPED. According to my program (which I'm such a geek
for saving), BIPED was performed live by Bryars, Loren Kiyoshi Dempster,
Takehisa Kosugi, and James Woodrow. See www.merce.org for the current
performance schedule.

I would like to thank Zornlister Pei-Yi Kim for posting an announcement
of the Xu Feng concert at Colombia University last night, as part of the
Crisis and Nostalgia: A Brief Survey of Hong Kong Cinema symposium. Zorn
assembled an unbelievable group of six drummers: Billy Martin, Kenny
Wolleson, Ben Perowsky, Roberto Rodriguez, Susie Ibarra, and Jim Black.
Phenomenal! Due to minimal publicity, the audience was relatively small.

I *loathe* musicals. But I'm curious about Falling to Pieces: The Patsy
Cline Musical, which opens in NYC at the Bank Street Theatre in April.

Jeni

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: broadway, et. al.
Date: 25 Feb 2002 13:25:00 -0500

The only Weber musical (and one of the few musicals in general) that
I've enjoyed was Sunset Boulevard.  I don't know why I enjoy it, but I
do.  It could have something to do with liking the movie (one of my all
time favorites).  It seemed to have a real drama aspect to it.  Like a
real play, not a Broadway musical.  I've acted quite a bit, so I
appreciate drama, but not generally musicals.  Having been in some
musicals, I can honestly say that they don't do as much for me as
straight plays.  I find that I'm sickened by the "pseudo-exuberance" as
well.

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: is this a joke?
Date: 25 Feb 2002 12:41:02 -0800

I just got to read the full PAZZ & JOP Village Voice poll, and I was really
amazed by it.  The Top 500-and-something albums of the year?! Is anything
his sprawling neccessary?

I understand the need for critics and all that, but has there ever been a
more useless thing than this sort of polling (Grammy's notwithstanding)?

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Chris Selvig <[e-mail]>
Subject: Flaming Creatures, Jeux des dames Cruelles
Date: 25 Feb 2002 13:24:13 -0800

A cursory look on Google suggests that there is a VHS video of "Flaming
Creatures," but it appears to be out of print, appearing only on a few
collector-type
sites.  http://www.buyindies.com/listings/2/3/FCTS-23200.html has it, if
you are feeling wealthy or obsessive, but I'd suggest trolling through
oddball-oriented video stores.  Since we're talking video and this is the
Zorn list, is "Jeux des Dames Cruelles" a real movie and if so, is there a
video or DVD of it?  It'd be especially fun if they used "Heretic" as the
backing music, but that's probably a reach.

Chris Selvig


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: is this a joke?
Date: 25 Feb 2002 16:58:11 -0500

>The Top 500-and-something albums of the year?! Is anything
>his sprawling neccessary?

It's computers.  The P&J formerly listed only the top 40 and Christgau would run down the next 40 somewhere in his essay.  But with computers it's easy to calculate and display everything.  I'm glad to be able to see all the ballots.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Tim Blechmann <[e-mail]>
Subject: Patrice Roussel's discographies online
Date: 24 Feb 2002 15:04:54 +0100

Patrice Roussel's discographies of new york downtown scene and
experimental musicians are online again:

http://nyds-exp-discogs.covers.de/


 Tim                          mailto:[e-mail]
                              ICQ: 96771783
                              http://nyds-exp-discogs.covers.de/
--
The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live,
mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time,
the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn,
burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across
the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and
everybody goes "Awww!"
                                                          Jack Kerouac


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: Bye for now... :-(
Date: 26 Feb 2002 00:01:26 +0100

Hello y'all...

Feel like saying goodbye before leaving the list for some time.

Even though I am a lucky person, since this coming Friday I'll be off
travelling for (hopefully quite) some time, I know I'll miss a lot of
your mails and useful information...

Can't wait until I can join again!

Take care all of you!

Yours,
patRice

np: Underground Resistance, various 12"s
nr: Alex Kerr, Dogs & Demons




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re Broadway
Date: 25 Feb 2002 17:50:16 -0600

"Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]> writes:

>What do you zornlisters think of Broadway and musical theatre in
>general?  I just had the displeasure of attending a chorus concert in
>which they had some guest singers that specialized in ghastly belting
>(they quite ruined "Summertime" for me).  It's not that I don't enjoy
>belting (love it when Patton does it), but in show tunes it doesn't do
>it for me.  I know lots of people who enjoy show tunes quite a bit and I
>have no problem with those people, but I never quite understood them
>myself.  It's not a lack of experience, I've listened to countless
>recordings and have seen a couple on stage (the least favorite being Les
>Miserable).  If some could explain what I'm missing, I would be
>appreciative, but if I'm not missing anything that's alright too.

Broadway, as Broadway, doesn't do a whole lot for me at this point.
But for me, most of the old shows, even the one's that gave rise to
all those great jazz standards, never did much either.

There are lots of music theater pieces I like, Robert Ashley's video
"operas," the collaborations between Paul Dresher and Rinde Eckert,
Shelley Hirsch's works, among others, but these aren't likely sources
for many songs that will live on in bad versions at piano bars and
school choral concerts.

I hope.

Bests,

Herb
--
Herb Levy
Mappings on Antenna Internet Radio
<http://www.antennaradio/avant/mappings/>
[e-mail]

Mappings  P O Box 9369  Forth Wort, TX 76147  USA

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: fred frith: stone, brick, glass, wood, wire
Date: 25 Feb 2002 17:50:16 -0600

Tim Blechmann <[e-mail]>: asks:

>STONE, BRICK, GLASS, WOOD, WIRE (GRAPHIC SCORES 1986-1996): Fred Frith
>
>is it worth buying?
>
>  Tim

I think about recordings of this kind of piece a lot differently than
Remco does, so I may as well write a little about the CDs here.

These are live recordings of a series of graphic score pieces that
Fred Frith created from 1986-1996. In these pieces musicians
interpret visual elements in particular photographs according to a
loose set of rules that Frith has chosen. These rules are different
for each piece, as are the photos used as scores. In general these
works are not very different from other open form music including
scores by composers like Pauline Oliveros and Christian Wolff, or, in
some ways at least, Zorn's game pieces. In other words, there's no
melodic, rhythmic, or harmonic material notated, the composition is
more of a set of rules for musical interactions. There's no literal
content in these works to be repeated accurately.

The recordings were made at several different festivals and workshops
over a five year period or so. Frith brought Ikue Mori and Zeena
Parkins to four of the five performances; other musicians also play
on more than one event, including Han Bennink, Rene Lussier, Bart
Maris. There rest of the folks will have worked with Frith for a few
days or weeks prior to the performance, learning the works for the
specific occasion. Some of these players are well known like Hans
Koch, Guy Klucevsek, Chris Cutler etc, others aren't.

Sure these aren't pristine studio recordings, but, for me at least,
the opportunity to hear a range of musicians responding to Frith's
open-ended structures in a variety of situations, allows me to more
fully hear the possibilities of these indeterminate works.

In other words, what it probably boils down to is this: If your goal
in hearing recordings of open structure pieces is to get to hear some
of the range the open-structure makes available to players, this is a
pretty good document of enough performances to get some sense of
that. If your goal in hearing recordings of open structure pieces is
to hear some kind of definitive performance made in an optimal
recording environment, this isn't that.

But, more than many other kinds of music (free improvisation is
similar in this regard), these kind of works don't often lend
themselves well to this latter kind of approach. The music by it's
very nature is relational rather than content driven. To my ears,
anyway, no recording can be "definitive" just as no single family can
be "definitive."

Bests,

Herb
--
Herb Levy
P O Box 9369  Forth Wort, Texas  76147  USA
817  377-2983
[e-mail]

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Broadway
Date: 25 Feb 2002 21:38:04 -0800

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Joseph Zitt
> Sent: Monday, February 25, 2002 10:00 AM

> I think the thing I most dislike about Broadway, musicals, and drama
> in general is the imitation of emotion, on an exaggerated scale,
> that infests most of it. The pseudo-exuberance of Broadway is just
> awful.

<Bjork alert> Does "Dancer in the Dark" count? =)

I'm no fan of musicals either -- and I've been forced to sit through a
few -- but the ones I've really liked, and have watched repeatedly, happen
to be films:

"Singin' in the Rain"
"Les Parapluies de Cherbourg"
"Pennies from Heaven" (haven't actually seen the series yet)

The emotion is pretty exaggerated all right, but there's a gentle satiric
edge to the former, an eye-popping visual style in the second that pokes fun
at its own obviousness, and for the third -- well, Dennis Potter's Dennis
Potter...

Later,
Ben

http://members.tripod.com/~tamad2/


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: fred frith: stone, brick, glass, wood, wire
Date: 26 Feb 2002 08:49:38 +0100

> Tim Blechmann <[e-mail]>: asks:
>
> >STONE, BRICK, GLASS, WOOD, WIRE (GRAPHIC SCORES 1986-1996): Fred Frith
> >
> >is it worth buying?
> >
> Sure these aren't pristine studio recordings, but, for me at least,
> the opportunity to hear a range of musicians responding to Frith's
> open-ended structures in a variety of situations, allows me to more
> fully hear the possibilities of these indeterminate works.
>
> In other words, what it probably boils down to is this: If your goal
> in hearing recordings of open structure pieces is to get to hear some
> of the range the open-structure makes available to players, this is a
> pretty good document of enough performances to get some sense of
> that. If your goal in hearing recordings of open structure pieces is
> to hear some kind of definitive performance made in an optimal
> recording environment, this isn't that.
>
Hi Herb,
What you point out is all true, thanks also for telling more about the
musical content than I did. But don't you agree with me that SBGWW with a
little more money and time (and I don't mean the 1986-96 between brackets)
the cd's just could have been done so much  better, what we now have are
just *tapes*.

I didn't mean to say anything should be 'definitive' or 'ultimate', just a
little labour of love would have been OK for my good money. The booklet, as
I said before, is beautiful, so why shouldn't the music sound OK as well?
Even if it is open ended...

And, interestingly, you point out to the documentation of the different
versions: I really doubt whether full versions were included (at least in
the Groningen case). I am moving again, I have packed all my cd's and tapes,
but I happen to have a live radio broadcast from the Groningen show, which
always seemed to have been much longer than the later release on cd.

Regards, Remco


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Richard Gardner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:Flaming Creatures, Jeux des dames Cruelles
Date: 26 Feb 2002 08:30:19 +0000

> is "Jeux des Dames Cruelles" a real movie and if so, is there a
> video or DVD of it?

As far as I know  Jeux des Dames Cruelles is just a book  collecting early
erotic s/m photographs. It was around in the UK published by the German
company Tashen. It cropped up in all the remaindered bookshops and was very
cheap. I think it was based on a set of pictures from some renowned
collector.

Richard Gardner


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Broadway ("Sweeny Tod")
Date: 26 Feb 2002 12:00:44 +0100


I generally can't stand the Broadway esthetic, but I did see, in the early
80's, a really good Broadway musical: "Sweeny Tod", words and music by
Stephen Sonheim, I think, about a 19th cent=2E barber who cuts all his
customers' throats one by one=2E Remarquable Kurt Weil type music with
orchestration worthy of Strawinsky, macabre black humor, and a lot of
energy=2E Zero shmaltz, truly great modern music=2E I was impressed=2E

DY=2E

Zachary Steiner a =E9crit :

> What do you zornlisters think of Broadway and musical theatre in
> general?  I just had the displeasure of attending a chorus concert in
> which they had some guest singers that specialized in ghastly belting
> (they quite ruined "Summertime" for me)=2E  It's not that I don't enjoy
> belting (love it when Patton does it), but in show tunes it doesn't do
> it for me=2E  I know lots of people who enjoy show tunes quite a bit and I
> have no problem with those people, but I never quite understood them
> myself=2E  It's not a lack of experience, I've listened to countless
> recordings and have seen a couple on stage (the least favorite being Les
> Miserable)=2E  If some could explain what I'm missing, I would be
> appreciative, but if I'm not missing anything that's alright too=2E
>
> Zach
>
> -


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Broadway
Date: 26 Feb 2002 06:14:26 EST



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Broadway
Date: 26 Feb 2002 06:17:56 EST


--part1_30.22c12423.29acc8e4_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

 Coming out of lurk mode for this oneThere is good broadway and bad.  Nothing
beats the experience of seeing a show live!  But the good surpasses the bad.
Les Mis in it's first years was a surprise to me.    Rent's soundtrack took
on a different life after seeing the show.  Ragtime the same.  Mamma Mia with
Abba's music a guilty pleasure!
 Long live broadway!!!

--part1_30.22c12423.29acc8e4_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"><FONT  style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Tahoma" LANG="0"> Coming out of lurk mode for this oneThere is good broadway and bad.  Nothing beats the experience of seeing a show live!  But the good surpasses the bad.  Les Mis in it's first years was a surprise to me.    Rent's soundtrack took on a different life after seeing the show.  Ragtime the same.  Mamma Mia with Abba's music a guilty pleasure!<BR>
 Long live broadway!!!</FONT></HTML>

--part1_30.22c12423.29acc8e4_boundary--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: New Music for Multiple Instruments in RealAudio, Mappings for the
Date: 26 Feb 2002 06:33:03 -0600

Hi y'all,

This week on Mappings <http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/>,
you'll hear music for multiple glockenspiels, flutes, hurdy gurdies,
Andean folk instruments, and more, by composers Chris Brown, Joseph
Celli, Annie Gosfield, Jose Maceda, Phill Niblock, Salvatore
Sciarrino, Lois V Vierk, Samuel Vriezen.

The show went online Tuesday morning around 6:00 AM (-0600 GMT) and
will remain online at the above URL for about a week. Last week's
program (featuring music for early instruments by composers Louis
Andriessen, Luciano Berio, Allison Cameron, Evelyn Ficarra, Peter
Hannan, Mauricio Kagel, and Gyorgy Ligeti) is still available in the
Mappings archive
<http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/index1.htm>, where you
can also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998.

With luck this week Antenna Radio REALLY will be moving to a new
server, with a slightly different hierarchy for the Web site. The
URLs above should work for the next week or two though.

Hope you tune in to the program; see you online.

Bests,

Herb

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andreas Dietz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Patrice Roussel's discographies online
Date: 26 Feb 2002 14:58:26 +0100


good news but still missing Ribot...

Andreas

np: Tosca - Suzuki

>From: Tim Blechmann <[e-mail]>
>
>Patrice Roussel's discographies of new york downtown scene and
>experimental musicians are online again:
>
>http://nyds-exp-discogs.covers.de/

_________________________________________________________________
Downloaden Sie MSN Explorer kostenlos unter http://explorer.msn.de/intl.asp.


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Daniel J. McConnell" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Broadway ("Sweeny Tod")
Date: 26 Feb 2002 08:34:56 -0600

If anyone has the chance, the Lyric Opera (Chicago) is staging "Sweeney
Todd" this Fall - a string of performances will run through Novemeber and
December. (The original production starred Angela Lansbury - a quirky voice
that added a bizarre depth to the Sondheim's score. The Lyric as yet has
not announced who they've cast for the role Lansbury played.) Definitely a
dark musical, but (in my opinion) one of the best.

Dan McConnell


>I generally can't stand the Broadway esthetic, but I did see, in the early
>80's, a really good Broadway musical: "Sweeny Tod", words and music by
>Stephen Sonheim, I think, about a 19th cent. barber who cuts all his
>customers' throats one by one. Remarquable Kurt Weil type music with
>orchestration worthy of Strawinsky, macabre black humor, and a lot of
>energy. Zero shmaltz, truly great modern music. I was impressed.
>
>DY.
>
>Zachary Steiner a =E9crit :
>

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Patrice Roussel's discographies online
Date: 26 Feb 2002 08:17:20 -0800


On Tue, 26 Feb 2002 14:58:26 +0100  "Andreas Dietz" wrote:
>
>
> good news but still missing Ribot...

Somebody else is taking care of the Ribot discography.

    Patrice.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andreas Dietz" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Patrice Roussel's discographies online
Date: 26 Feb 2002 17:28:48 +0100

does this mean the Ribot disco will be online sometime in the future?

Andreas

np: John Coltrane - Olatunji

>From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
> >
> > good news but still missing Ribot...
>
>Somebody else is taking care of the Ribot discography.
>
>    Patrice.


_________________________________________________________________
Testen Sie MSN Messenger fⁿr Ihren Online-Chat mit Freunden:
http://messenger.msn.de


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
Subject: book recommendations
Date: 26 Feb 2002 09:50:24 -0800

I figured this was as good a place as any to ask for advice -- I teach an
undergraduate introduction to cultural anthropology class every semester,
and this coming fall I want to assign a book on music. I know close to
nothing about the academic side of it, so I was wondering if you folks might
help me.

I'm thinking of something on rock/pop -- a full-blown ethnography would
really be preferred, but a more sociological (and not journalistic) text
would be fine. (As much as I'd love to assign "Lipstick Traces" or "Ocean of
Sound," there's some, um, methodological rigor I need to uphold, as it
were...)

I think I remember Steve Smith about to read Deena Weinstein's "Heavy
Metal" -- any good? Or Robert Walser's "Running with the Devil?" Or
something on hiphop, funk, Elvis, "world music" -- I know there's a lot of
the latter -- etc.? (Last year I assigned Norman Stolzoff's very good "Wake
The Town And Tell The People," but the students didn't take too kindly with
the theory, of which I thought there was very little.)

Thanks in advance,
Ben

http://members.tripod.com/~tamad2/


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Broadway
Date: 26 Feb 2002 13:20:14 -0600

On Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 06:17:56AM -0500, [e-mail] wrote:
>  Coming out of lurk mode for this oneThere is good broadway and bad.  Nothing
> beats the experience of seeing a show live!  But the good surpasses the bad.
> Les Mis in it's first years was a surprise to me.

Eek. I suffered through seeing Les Miserables on Broadway, and came
away feeling that the show was well named.

--
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems        |
|                            http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html |
| Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bob Sweet <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: book recommendations
Date: 26 Feb 2002 13:36:59 -0500

I can't really tell from your request whether or not my book would be
appropriate. It's not really a full-blown, academic, ethnographical or
sociological text on the cultural anthroplogy of heavy metal, Elvis, rock,
hip-hop, or pop, but it's pretty interesting. In fact, I would go so far as
to say that no class in cultural anthropolgy that is taking a musical
perspective should avoid a discussion of the Creative Music Studio in
Woodstock, New York, particularly if there's any type of inquiry into what
world music is all about. And this is the only book on the topic. Check it
out at http://www.arborville.com.

Robert E. Sweet. Music Universe, Music Mind: Revisiting the Creative Music
Studio, Woodstock, New York (Ann Arbor: Arborville Publishing, 1996; ISBN
0-9650438-4-3)

Bob Sweet
[e-mail]

--On Tuesday, February 26, 2002 9:50 AM -0800 Benito Vergara
<[e-mail]> wrote:

> I figured this was as good a place as any to ask for advice -- I teach an
> undergraduate introduction to cultural anthropology class every semester,
> and this coming fall I want to assign a book on music. I know close to
> nothing about the academic side of it, so I was wondering if you folks
> might help me.
>
> I'm thinking of something on rock/pop -- a full-blown ethnography would
> really be preferred, but a more sociological (and not journalistic) text
> would be fine. (As much as I'd love to assign "Lipstick Traces" or "Ocean
> of Sound," there's some, um, methodological rigor I need to uphold, as it
> were...)
>
> I think I remember Steve Smith about to read Deena Weinstein's "Heavy
> Metal" -- any good? Or Robert Walser's "Running with the Devil?" Or
> something on hiphop, funk, Elvis, "world music" -- I know there's a lot of
> the latter -- etc.? (Last year I assigned Norman Stolzoff's very good
> "Wake The Town And Tell The People," but the students didn't take too
> kindly with the theory, of which I thought there was very little.)
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Ben
>
> http://members.tripod.com/~tamad2/
>
>
> -





-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: book recommendations
Date: 26 Feb 2002 14:57:59 -0600

On Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 01:36:59PM -0500, Bob Sweet wrote:

> Robert E. Sweet. Music Universe, Music Mind: Revisiting the Creative Music
> Studio, Woodstock, New York (Ann Arbor: Arborville Publishing, 1996; ISBN
> 0-9650438-4-3)

Looking at the excerpt of your book on the Amazon.com site, I see that
the first chapter opens with the sentence: "Of all the individuals who
have been credited with taking jazz music in entirely new directions,
reshaping the music according to their own visions, Ornette Coleman is
the only one still alive today."

Uh, did I miss bad news about Cecil Taylor?

--
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems        |
|                            http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html |
| Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Bob Sweet <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: book recommendations
Date: 26 Feb 2002 15:19:20 -0500

Yes, you're not the first to make that observation. Let me just say that
should there ever be a reprinting of the book, that sentence will be
omitted.

Bob

--On Tuesday, February 26, 2002 2:57 PM -0600 Joseph Zitt
<[e-mail]> wrote:

> On Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 01:36:59PM -0500, Bob Sweet wrote:
>
> > Robert E. Sweet. Music Universe, Music Mind: Revisiting the Creative
> > Music  Studio, Woodstock, New York (Ann Arbor: Arborville Publishing,
> > 1996; ISBN  0-9650438-4-3)
>
> Looking at the excerpt of your book on the Amazon.com site, I see that
> the first chapter opens with the sentence: "Of all the individuals who
> have been credited with taking jazz music in entirely new directions,
> reshaping the music according to their own visions, Ornette Coleman is
> the only one still alive today."
>
> Uh, did I miss bad news about Cecil Taylor?
>
> --
> | [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
> | New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems        |
> |                            http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html |
> | Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
> | Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |





-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: book recommendations
Date: 26 Feb 2002 12:34:44 -0800


If the focus of this class is American music, I would recommend THE SOUND
AND THE CITY by Charlie Gillette, which chronicles (mostly) the rise of
post-war black music, with regards to regional development of independant
labels.  Subsequent books by Greil Marcus,Dave Marsh etc that deal with this
topic are usually nowhere near as good, usually because the guy writing the
book has a thesis he's trying to impose, but Gillette really lets the
principal players -- the musicians, record company execs etc -- do their own
talking in their own language, and it gives the reader a clearer idea of who
these people were, what they accomplished, where they succeeded and failed.
Rhythm'n'blues has almost always been a more universally felt river in the
American cultural scene than just about anything else (certainly more than
jazz or most white pop music), and it's developments have always happened at
street level, so its progress does much to provide another aspect of
commentary on the anthropology of America.

best --
skip h

np: andrew hill, point of departure


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: book recommendations
Date: 26 Feb 2002 13:36:05 -0800

> -----Original Message-----
> From: skip Heller [mailto:[e-mail]]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2002 12:35 PM

> If the focus of this class is American music

No, it doesn't have to be American, though as an outsider to American
culture I believe in turning the tables, as it were, every now and then.

The class is straight-up cultural anthropology; this semester they're
reading about contemporary witchcraft in England, Bedouin Arab women, and
community and poverty in Naples. I thought something on music, particularly
rock, would be good for the kids next fall.

Whether or not I'll assign the books, the recommendations from you-all make
for a great-looking book-buying list anyhow. (With permission from the
others who sent messages to me, I'd like to post your recommendations to the
list as well...) Thanks very much to everyone who's written so far.

Keep 'em coming,
Ben

----------------------------
Benito M. Vergara, Jr.
Assistant Professor
Department of Asian American Studies /
   Department of Anthropology
San Francisco State University


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: book recommendations
Date: 27 Feb 2002 00:24:39 +0100



Joseph Zitt a =E9crit :

> On Tue, Feb 26, 2002 at 01:36:59PM -0500, Bob Sweet wrote:
>
> > Robert E=2E Sweet=2E Music Universe, Music Mind: Revisiting the Creative=
 Music
> > Studio, Woodstock, New York (Ann Arbor: Arborville Publishing, 1996; ISB=
N
> > 0-9650438-4-3)
>
> Looking at the excerpt of your book on the Amazon=2Ecom site, I see that
> the first chapter opens with the sentence: "Of all the individuals who
> have been credited with taking jazz music in entirely new directions,
> reshaping the music according to their own visions, Ornette Coleman is
> the only one still alive today=2E"
>
> Uh, did I miss bad news about Cecil Taylor?

 Something happened to Joe Zawinul?

DY=2E



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: pedro moreno <[e-mail]>
Subject: John Butcher Texas Tour march 2002
Date: 26 Feb 2002 18:00:54 -0600

Apologies for the cross posting

John Butcher Tour of Texas

British Saxophonist John Butcher will be touring the great state of Texas in March.  These are the only US dates on this tour.



"Butcher is now quite simply one of the most effective free players in Europe: exact, unfussy and full of ideas." PENGUIN GUIDE TO JAZZ ON CD

"The 43 year old saxophonist has developed a unique style which he has used to assert himself as one of the most original saxophone voices of the late 20th century." CODA

"The silence during John Butcher's solo saxophone performance spoke volumes about its impact on the crowd. His succinct set was a harrowing display. Instead of a mere cache of technique, each piece presented a stripped down miniature of a particular area of his craft, from buzzing multiphonics to intense tonal manipulations and rigorous tremolos."  WIRE

"John Butcher is currently the most radical saxophone experimenter on the planet." JAZZ-KVADRAT (Russia)



Wednesday, March 20   Houston
8pm $8 Diverse Works
(1117 East Freeway, I-10 at North Main)
Presented by Pauline Oliveros Foundation Houston
This concert is cosponsored by Diverse Works
Advance Tickets Available at Sound Exchange
713-666-5555
http://www.pofinc.org/houston/concerts.html
http://www.diverseworks.org/home.html

March 22  Austin
Ceremony Hall (4100 Red River)   8pm
Tickets $10 at 33 Degrees, Sound Exchange, and Waterloo Records
followed by performance with Imbroglio String Quartet
call 512-302-5233 for info and to charge tickets  or  [e-mail]
http://www.epistrophyarts.org

Austin master class on March 21.

March 23   San Antonio
Honey Factory Art Space (120 Guadalupe St.) at 8 p.m.
Tickets  $8 from Hogwild Records (210-733-5354) and $10 at the door.
There will be an opening performer who's yet to be announced.
info 210-736-5124 or  [e-mail].



Pedro Moreno
Epistrophy Arts
http://www.epistrophyarts.org


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: fred frith: stone, brick, glass, wood, wire
Date: 26 Feb 2002 18:25:21 -0600

Remco Takken wrote:

>  > Tim Blechmann <[e-mail]>: asks:
>>
>>  >STONE, BRICK, GLASS, WOOD, WIRE (GRAPHIC SCORES 1986-1996): Fred Frith
>>  >
>>  >is it worth buying?
>>  >
>>  Sure these aren't pristine studio recordings, but, for me at least,
>>  the opportunity to hear a range of musicians responding to Frith's
>>  open-ended structures in a variety of situations, allows me to more
>>  fully hear the possibilities of these indeterminate works.
>>
>>  In other words, what it probably boils down to is this: If your goal
>>  in hearing recordings of open structure pieces is to get to hear some
>>  of the range the open-structure makes available to players, this is a
>>  pretty good document of enough performances to get some sense of
>>  that. If your goal in hearing recordings of open structure pieces is
>>  to hear some kind of definitive performance made in an optimal
>>  recording environment, this isn't that.
>>
>Hi Herb,
>What you point out is all true, thanks also for telling more about the
>musical content than I did. But don't you agree with me that SBGWW with a
>little more money and time (and I don't mean the 1986-96 between brackets)
>the cd's just could have been done so much  better, what we now have are
>just *tapes*.

Hmmm, weren't you previously complaining about the cost of the set as
it stands now? A "little more money & time" at the front end would
increase the overall production expense, further increasing the
retail cost of the set. In my experience the proportion of expense to
retail costs is rarely less than 5:1, often more depending on the
size of the company involved. So an average added expense of say a
buck a disc would mean at least a five buck increase in the price to
consumers. And my guess is that what you're talking about would cost
far more than a buck/disc at the front end.

For these festival/workshop performances, all the rehearsals &
performers, etc. were already paid for, the tapes already existed. If
they didn't, the current set either wouldn't include the color
reproductions of the scores, or it would have been a lot more
expensive. By bringing together a large ensemble, rehearsing and
recording separate from a gig that already exists, it would cost a
lot more to produce a recording that would show a lot less of what
these pieces are.

If, as seems likely since Frith was integrally involved in the
production of this set, these are good examples of the pieces in this
series, I'm perfectly happy with the set as it stands. I can't think
of a recording of any piece of music that isn't "just *tapes*." &
that's just fine with me.

>I didn't mean to say anything should be 'definitive' or 'ultimate', just a
>little labour of love would have been OK for my good money. The booklet, as
>I said before, is beautiful, so why shouldn't the music sound OK as well?
>Even if it is open ended...

Frith making the original pieces, working on these and other
performances of the works with musicians in cities scattered around
the world, and going through the existing tapes of all the
performances of this material from 1986-96 is already a lot more than
a little labor of love.

Look at it this way: without having to travel to five different
cities over five years, find places to stay, buy concert tickets,
etc. "for your good money" you're getting what Frith himself thinks
of as the best examples of these pieces. You've got a bargain, you're
getting the director's cut of these works.

>And, interestingly, you point out to the documentation of the different
>versions: I really doubt whether full versions were included (at least in
>the Groningen case). I am moving again, I have packed all my cd's and tapes,
>but I happen to have a live radio broadcast from the Groningen show, which
>always seemed to have been much longer than the later release on cd.

I'm a lot less interested in documenting "full" concerts than I am in
knowing the particular pieces were performed in versions that are
good examples of the various pieces. On the CDs, there's about twelve
minutes from Groningen, & about eight minutes from Bologna. It's
quite unlikely that the performances in either location were that
short. But it is quite likely that these parts of those concerts are
the parts that Frith thinks show off these particular pieces in ways
he wants them to be heard. That'd be why he went through recordings
of ten years of performances for excerpts from five performances
within a five year span.

For me, these kind of pieces were perhaps best described by Zorn in
his pithy statement from the notes to the original release of one of
the game pieces (& I'm paraphrasing, I don't have time to dig up my
LPs): "I'm not interested in how these pieces sound, but in how they
work." I'm not using that (or any of this) as an argument in favor
bad recordings, but if the composer's interests in the piece are well
represented by the recordings currently available, that is, if these
recordings show how the pieces WORK, then that's the main thing.


--
Herb Levy
Mappings on Antenna Internet Radio
<http://www.antennaradio/avant/mappings/>
[e-mail]

Mappings  P O Box 9369  Forth Wort, TX 76147  USA

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: William Crump <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: book recommendations; Zappa bio, dammit!
Date: 26 Feb 2002 20:30:09 -0800 (PST)

How about Eric Tamm's book on Brian Eno? (Brian Eno:
His Music and the Vertical Color of Sound; 1989, Faber
& Faber). It's not perfect, it may not even be great,
but Eno's a worthwhile subject and his notable work
stretches over a fairly long time.

Or Arcana, edited by Zorn.

Say, when is someone going to write a REALLY GOOD,
exhaustive biography of Frank Zappa? It needs to be
done now, while most of the people who played with him
are still alive to be interviewed. If there can be a
600-page bio of Keith Moon that goes into excruciating
detail about every aspect of his sad life, shouldn't
there be something about a subject as deserving as FZ?

William Crump

__________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: book recommendations
Date: 26 Feb 2002 22:30:50 -0600

"Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]> asks:

>
>I figured this was as good a place as any to ask for advice -- I teach an
>undergraduate introduction to cultural anthropology class every semester,
>and this coming fall I want to assign a book on music. I know close to
>nothing about the academic side of it, so I was wondering if you folks might
>help me.

It's not pop/rock oriented, but you might be interested in
Rationalizing Culture by Georgina Born, which is an anthropological
study of IRCAM, the music research center in Paris. All of the
subjects are unidentified, labeled only as randomly assigned
initials, but it's pretty clearly the period when George Lewis &
Kaija Saariaho were working there.


--
Herb Levy
Mappings on Antenna Internet Radio
<http://www.antennaradio/avant/mappings/>
[e-mail]

Mappings  P O Box 9369  Forth Wort, TX 76147  USA

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Pennies from Heaven
Date: 26 Feb 2002 22:33:06 -0600

The movie was extremely cool, but the TV series absolutely stunned me --
and I never got to see all of it, just one episode caught by accident while
we were on vacation and checking out the cable offerings.  Screenwriter
Dennis Potter also did the magnificent "Singing Detective" and lesser-known
but also striking "Lipstick On My Collar," which I found at a Blockbuster
in Colorado Springs, of all places.  Does anybody know if the "Pennies"
series is available on video/DVD?

"Umbrellas/parapluies of/de Cherbourg" is a favorite of mine also. The
soundtrack is gorgeous.



Parry



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zappa bio, dammit!
Date: 27 Feb 2002 07:51:15 +0100


> Say, when is someone going to write a REALLY GOOD,
> exhaustive biography of Frank Zappa? It needs to be
> done now, while most of the people who played with him
> are still alive to be interviewed. If there can be a
> 600-page bio of Keith Moon that goes into excruciating
> detail about every aspect of his sad life, shouldn't
> there be something about a subject as deserving as FZ?
>
> William Crump
>
I have this slight fear, that, in this really good book, you will read many
things you have read elsewhere. If there was one guy capable of marketing
himself, and using his own musical life in order to generate press, it's
Frank Zappa.

There should be possibilities, though, investigating all the 'Zappa
Versions' of the plain truth. There's this story of a west coast string
quartet, where Zappa claimed the musicians mimed the performance, backed
with a JAZZ FROM HELL tape. The best thing of the story is, that, according
to Zappa, not one critic discovered the fraud, because the string quartet
had wired up as if they played electrically.

Incidentally, this nice little story was completely made up by Zappa and a
very friendly journalist for a local newspaper. This premiere was relatively
small. So the amount of people that would discover the bullshit in the
newspaper would be way smaller, than all those helpful Zappa lovers/
journalists who were very keen on keeping a good friend, by writing down
Zappa's version as he dictated it.

Sufice to say that the String Quartet was devastated. They had rehearsed
from a half finished score (and a complete mess, without page numbering
etc), and worked their way through this piece anyway. The musicians were
devastated to read what the newspaper had to say about their little Zappa
premiere.

And the story went all over the world. Who the guys in the String Quartet
were? Time to investigate, you ambitious biographers, and keen journalists
out there!

(I will not be helping, it's been in the news)

Regards, Remco Takken



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zappa bio, dammit!
Date: 26 Feb 2002 22:51:38 -0800

on 2/26/02 10:51 PM, Remco Takken at [e-mail] wrote:

> And the story went all over the world. Who the guys in the String Quartet
> were? Time to investigate, you ambitious biographers, and keen journalists
> out there!

It was Art Jarvinen's EAR Ensemble.

As for a really good exhaustive FZ bio, I don't think it's something that
will likely happen in Gail's lifetime, if you know what I mean.

As for one where all the stories are accurate, a few ex Mothers are going to
have to moderate the vitriol before we get anything other than unflattering
tales about FZ.  Ray Collins is particularly harsh, which is a shame,
because he was there before the beginning.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Stephen Berman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Recommendations?
Date: 27 Feb 2002 09:53:01 +0100

"Steve Smith" <[e-mail]> writes:

> For the Art Ensemble, this is tougher because the most important document,
> 'People in Sorrow,' remains out of print and never issued on CD (there's
> allegedly a French EMI CD issue with 'People in Sorrow' and 'Les Stances a
> Sophie,' which would be the single best starting point, but I've never seen
> a copy nor heard from anyone who has

I have it; the catalogue number is 7958182, (c) 1990.

--Steve Berman

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Zappa bio, dammit!
Date: 27 Feb 2002 09:56:30 +0100 (CET)

I really think a very good Zappa biography already
exists: Neil Slaven's "Electric Don Quixote". It's
obvious that you know it but I found it strange nobody
mentioned it yet. I've read it twice and despite my
language limitations, I found it accurate and, above
all, really objective, considering every Zappa
controversies (which were countless, of course) from
many different angles including the POV's of all the
involved parties (when possible).

Best,

EfrΘn del Valle

>
> on 2/26/02 10:51 PM, Remco Takken at
> [e-mail] wrote:
>
> > And the story went all over the world. Who the
> guys in the String Quartet
> > were? Time to investigate, you ambitious
> biographers, and keen journalists
> > out there!
>
> It was Art Jarvinen's EAR Ensemble.
>
> As for a really good exhaustive FZ bio, I don't
> think it's something that
> will likely happen in Gail's lifetime, if you know
> what I mean.
>
> As for one where all the stories are accurate, a few
> ex Mothers are going to
> have to moderate the vitriol before we get anything
> other than unflattering
> tales about FZ.  Ray Collins is particularly harsh,
> which is a shame,
> because he was there before the beginning.
>
> skip h
>
>
> -
>

_______________________________________________________________
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Yahoo! Messenger
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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: FW: Arthur Lyman dead at 70
Date: 27 Feb 2002 01:02:42 -0800


----------
[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail],
[e-mail], [e-mail], [e-mail],
[e-mail], [e-mail]

From the Honolulu Advertiser, posted on: Tuesday, February 26, 2002

Hawai'i music legend Arthur Lyman dead at 70

By Wayne Harada
Advertiser Entertainment Editor

Arthur Lyman, a world-class musician who played four-mallet vibraphones
where
most played two, died Sunday night at St. Francis Medical Center-West's
hospice in 'Ewa. He turned 70 on Feb. 2.

Lyman was known for "Yellow Bird," a tune that showcased his vibesmanship
and
bird calls. It stayed on the Billboard charts for 10 weeks, peaking at No. 4
in 1961, and was to become one of the signatures of the "exotic music" trend
that originated in Hawai'i in the late 1950s and early '60s.

"I can say that musically Arthur was the best in the Islands and maybe the
world," said his long-time friend and colleague, Martin Denny, who recorded

"Quiet Village" in 1959 with Lyman among the musicians aboard.

"He had a keen ear for music and a great imagination, and I would say that
his success and exposure paralleled mine. There were debates on who came
first, but as far as I'm concerned we did it together."

Lyman joined the group when he was about 21, said Denny, who regularly
visited Lyman at the hospital.

"Martin would take Arthur out in the sunshine and give a private show," said
fan and friend Ricky Ornellas, who also visited Lyman.

The musician was diagnosed with throat cancer last March, and chemotherapy
left his throat parched and sore, said his daughter, Kapi'olani "Kappy"
Lyman, who once sang in her father's act.

"I visited (dad) for several weeks and returned home last Saturday after
getting him a room with a window," said Kappy Lyman, who lives in
Sacramento.
"He had been unable to make bird calls since March.

Harold Chang, a drummer and percussionist with Lyman for nearly 18 years,
said "He was a one-of-a-kind talent who played beautiful music, whether it
was Hawaiian, Japanese or classical."

John B. Kramer, the bassist and other surviving musician in his group,
called
him "a gifted musician with a lot of talent who lived a good life." Kramer
played guitar on the "Yellow Bird" recording and Chang played bass.

Lyman's easygoing manner and musical prowess thrilled fans who saw him at
the
Shell Bar, Don the Beachcomber's and the old Canoe House, as well as in
Mainland clubs. More recently he performed solo at the New Otani Kaimana
Beach Hotel and the Waialae Country Club.

He was married four times.

"He was a typical local boy who surfed and paddled canoe, and he was equally
proud of his paddling medals as he was of his music," said Kappy.

A McKinley grad, Lyman was inducted into the school's Hall of Honor Nov. 16.

He also is survived by two sons, Arthur "Ditto" Jr. and Aaron; his wife,
JoAnn Lyman; sister Tweetie Rabi; brother Bill; and seven grandchildren.

Hawaiian Memorial Park is handling arrangements, and funeral services are
pending.



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zappa bio, dammit!
Date: 27 Feb 2002 01:09:02 -0800

on 2/27/02 12:56 AM, Efr=E9n del Valle at [e-mail] wrote:

> I really think a very good Zappa biography already
> exists: Neil Slaven's "Electric Don Quixote". It's
> obvious that you know it but I found it strange nobody
> mentioned it yet. I've read it twice and despite my
> language limitations, I found it accurate and, above
> all, really objective, considering every Zappa
> controversies (which were countless, of course) from
> many different angles including the POV's of all the
> involved parties (when possible).
>=20
> Best,
>=20
> Efr=E9n del Valle
>=20
>>=20

Slaven's book is terrific, but -- and this comes fr knowing at least a few
of the involved parties -- you really have to read everything and sort out =
a
lot of personalities before you start to form a reasonable picture.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Zappa bio, dammit!
Date: 27 Feb 2002 10:10:43 +0100 (CET)

Hi,

I suppose you have to be a Zappa-expert to realize
that Slaven didn't cover all the possible scope. I'm
not and I wasn't so demanding, specially considering
another bio published in Spain which was released in a
collection that included, among others: Backstreet
Boys, Ricky Martin and Blur. Now you understand me,
don't you? ;-)

Best,

efrΘn

> Slaven's book is terrific, but -- and this comes fr
> knowing at least a few
> of the involved parties -- you really have to read
> everything and sort out a
> lot of personalities before you start to form a
> reasonable picture.
>
> skip h
>
>
> -
>

_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Zappa bio, dammit!
Date: 27 Feb 2002 10:10:43 +0100 (CET)

Hi,

I suppose you have to be a Zappa-expert to realize
that Slaven didn't cover all the possible scope. I'm
not and I wasn't so demanding, specially considering
another bio published in Spain which was released in a
collection that included, among others: Backstreet
Boys, Ricky Martin and Blur. Now you understand me,
don't you? ;-)

Best,

efrΘn

> Slaven's book is terrific, but -- and this comes fr
> knowing at least a few
> of the involved parties -- you really have to read
> everything and sort out a
> lot of personalities before you start to form a
> reasonable picture.
>
> skip h
>
>
> -
>

_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zappa bio, dammit!
Date: 27 Feb 2002 01:24:23 -0800

on 2/27/02 1:10 AM, Efr=E9n del Valle at [e-mail] wrote:

> Hi,
>=20
> I suppose you have to be a Zappa-expert to realize
> that Slaven didn't cover all the possible scope. I'm
> not and I wasn't so demanding, specially considering
> another bio published in Spain which was released in a
> collection that included, among others: Backstreet
> Boys, Ricky Martin and Blur. Now you understand me,
> don't you? ;-)
>=20
> Best,
>=20
> efr=E9n

Slaven's book is a fine one -- as is Michael Gray's, and David Walley's.
But each is somewhat one-dimensional.

I think the overall best is COSMIK DEBRIS, by Greg Russo, which is the most
accurate, comprehensive, and impartial work on FZ (enough that I wound up
hiring Russo as a researcher on the Cucamonga era).  But it is also the one
that concentrates least on the individual personalities of the various
players, so even CD, amazing tho it is, is best when dealing strictly with
the music end of things, which it does splendidly.

sh

NP: doc watson: the vanguard years 4 disc set (VERY serious guitar record)


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: re: Zappa
Date: 27 Feb 2002 08:08:24 EST

>Incidentally, this nice little story was completely made up by Zappa and
>a
>very friendly journalist for a local newspaper

I have a dear, old friend who used to refer to Frank Zappa and Don Van Vliet
as 'those famous liars'

Doesn't take away from what they did, but it does mean that you shouldn't
believe everything that came out of their mouth.

Steve F.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Gail Zappa
Date: 27 Feb 2002 09:05:33 EST


--part1_173.4387ee8.29ae41ad_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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In a message dated 2/27/2002 1:49:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> As for a really good exhaustive FZ bio, I don't think it's something that
> will likely happen in Gail's lifetime, if you know what I mean.
>

I was just thinking this as I'd read this series of posts. Especially over
the last 3 - 4 years or so, the handling of the Zappa estate has been, at
best, erratic (through no fault on Ryko's part though).

Dale.

--part1_173.4387ee8.29ae41ad_boundary
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>In a message dated 2/27/2002 1:49:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">As for a really good exhaustive FZ bio, I don't think it's something that<BR>
will likely happen in Gail's lifetime, if you know what I mean.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B><BR>
I was just thinking this as I'd read this series of posts. Especially over the last 3 - 4 years or so, the handling of the Zappa estate has been, at best, erratic (through no fault on Ryko's part though).<BR>
<BR>
Dale.</B></FONT></HTML>

--part1_173.4387ee8.29ae41ad_boundary--

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Gail Zappa
Date: 27 Feb 2002 09:00:45 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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    charset="us-ascii"
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  In a message dated 2/27/2002 1:49:36 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:



    As for a really good exhaustive FZ bio, I don't think it's something
that
    will likely happen in Gail's lifetime, if you know what I mean.



  I was just thinking this as I'd read this series of posts. Especially over
the last 3 - 4 years or so, the handling of the Zappa estate has been, at
best, erratic (through no fault on Ryko's part though).

  Dale.

  [Sean Westergaard]


  erratic is putting it oh so kindly.  detrimental might be more accurate.


------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C1BF6D.3DC73350
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charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4913.1100" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2><BR><BR></FONT> </DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
lang=3D0=20
  face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000a0 size=3D2 =
FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"><B>In a message=20
  dated 2/27/2002 1:49:36 AM Eastern Standard Time, =
[e-mail]=20
  writes:<BR><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: =
#ffffff"=20
  face=3DArial color=3D#000000 size=3D2 FAMILY=3D"SANSSERIF"></B><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
  TYPE=3D"CITE">As for a really good exhaustive FZ bio, I don't think =
it's=20
    something that<BR>will likely happen in Gail's lifetime, if you know =
what I=20
    mean.<BR></BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV><BR></FONT><FONT lang=3D0 style=3D"BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff"=20
  face=3D"Comic Sans MS" color=3D#0000a0 size=3D2 =
FAMILY=3D"SCRIPT"><B><BR>I was just=20
  thinking this as I'd read this series of posts. Especially over the =
last 3 - 4=20
  years or so, the handling of the Zappa estate has been, at best, =
erratic=20
  (through no fault on Ryko's part though).<BR><BR>Dale.</B></FONT> =
<BR></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D967495713-27022002></SPAN><SPAN=20
  class=3D967495713-27022002><FONT color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>[Sean=20
  Westergaard] </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D967495713-27022002></SPAN> </DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D967495713-27022002></SPAN> </DIV>
  <DIV><SPAN class=3D967495713-27022002><FONT color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>erratic is=20
  putting it oh so kindly.  detrimental might be more=20
  accurate.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
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class=3D967495713-27022002> </SPAN></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY>=
</HTML>

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From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: 56 across
Date: 27 Feb 2002 06:39:14 -0600

I don't want to get anyone back into the recent discussion of the
relative value of Ornette Coleman (who was, after all, from Fort
Worth), but someone out there may be interested to note that "Ornette
Coleman genre" is a clue in today's NY Times crossword puzzle.

The answer is NOT harmolodics.

Herb

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: zorn bios?
Date: 27 Feb 2002 11:57:00 EST

so, something really interesting exists.  well, lots of really interesting
things exist, but this one is relevant-ish.

moon unit zappa wrote a novel called 'america the beautiful' which was
printed last year.  it's about a girl named america throne who is the
daughter of a genius artist/performance artist/etc. and falls in love with an
artist and gets her heart broken and her adventures trying to reconcile her
father as genius and her mother as eccentric shadow-stomper, etc.

when i was reading this book in the fall, i couldn't help but think that
maybe it wasn't quite as fictional as possible (america has a brother,
spoonie, who is a rock star, etc.) and that it is MUZ's way of expressing
what it was like (and continues to be like) growing up in the shadow of a
deceased genius.

it's a great read.  i highly reccomend it.

love,
  k8.

n.p. - cage, litany for the whale.



---
[.n0thing.is.what.is.sAid.]
k a t e  p e t e r s o n
c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r

http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html
http://www.icefoundation.org (roundtable)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "gorilla thing" <[e-mail]>
Subject: new fella'/ recommendations
Date: 27 Feb 2002 09:40:18 -0800



Hello,

I joined the list about a week ago and I'm enjoying the reading.

I have a few questions as a newbie to "modernjazz"
might have.

I have a few Masada's, Zorn's and just recently picked up Dave Douglas's
"Thousand Evenings"; I don't know the correct term for the type of music
some of this sounds like to me but I'll use euro-jazz because to me it
sounds very European influenced, this brings me to my question(s) could I
get some recommendations regarding similar artists  of this style using
violin, cello etc, and common jazz elements to create such a wonderful
sound, (the only other musician that I own who  gives me similar
satisfaction is Django Reinhardt)
Recommendations of other styles from other countries would be appreciated as
well including web sites.

Thanks

Chad



_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: new fella'/ recommendations
Date: 27 Feb 2002 19:07:52 +0100 (CET)

Hi,

Chad wrote:

>could I get some recommendations regarding similar
>artists
> of this style using
> violin, cello etc, and common jazz elements to
> create such a wonderful
> sound,

From the top of my head, I've recently been a lot into
Myra Melford's Extended Ensemble "Alive in the House
of Saints" on HatOlogy. It includes Dave Douglas,
Marty Ehrlich, Melford herself and I don't recall the
rythm section. Also, her "Above Blue" release on
Arabesque with the The Same River Twice ensemble could
be recommendable for what you seem to be looking for.
Certainly European-infused with some sections closer
to chamber-music than what we strictly regard as
"jazz".
I'd also check Susie Ibarra's first Tzadik release,
"Flower after Flower" and her first trio effort,
"Radiance" with Cooper-Moore on piano & harp and
Charles Burnham on violin. The former is really
laid-back and the latter you'll find much more
dynamic. However, I'd stick with "Flower...", I found
it far more interesting: really quiet, beatiful
melodies, good instrumentation/performers, ... (I'm
not a critic, as you see ;-)).

These are some that came to my head (considering that
you want a mixture of "traditional" jazz
instrumentations + strings).

Best,

EfrΘn del VAlle

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn bios?
Date: 27 Feb 2002 10:57:03 -0800

on 2/27/02 8:57 AM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

> when i was reading this book in the fall, i couldn't help but think that
> maybe it wasn't quite as fictional as possible (america has a brother,
> spoonie, who is a rock star, etc.) and that it is MUZ's way of expressing
> what it was like (and continues to be like) growing up in the shadow of a
> deceased genius.

I'm pretty sure.  There's some details in there that had to really bother
Gail Zappa to see in print.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ajda the Turkish Queen" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new fella' recommendations/Rabih Abou-Khalil
Date: 27 Feb 2002 16:33:44 -0500

Well,

I'll recommend Rabih Abou-Khalil.  It's a sleepy, middle-eastern type of
jazz, which I think you might like...

The album I have is "Blue Camel", on Enja/Mesa/Bluemoon.  He has many other
albums, including: Between Dusk and Dawn, Bukra, Roots & Sprouts, Al-Jadida,
Tarab, The Sultan's Picnic (which I have also heard and is pretty good), and
Arabian Waltz, maybe more...

Good luck and welcome:)


Ajda the Turkish Queen
http://mp3.com/turkishqueen
http://wmbr.mit.edu/schedesc.html#binge
Remix http://drawbridge.com/countess/music.html
Michael Gira Interview
http://www.younggodrecords.com/audio/interview/AjdaInterview.ram




_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew" <[e-mail]>
Subject: I gotta ask...
Date: 27 Feb 2002 17:10:47 -0500

Is Zorn a homosexual? I've been wondering this for about a year.

Please, no "why should it matter" or indignant responses.....i'm just
genuinely curious.

andrew


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: I gotta ask...
Date: 27 Feb 2002 14:45:34 -0800

on 2/27/02 2:10 PM, Andrew at [e-mail] wrote:

> Is Zorn a homosexual? I've been wondering this for about a year.
>
> Please, no "why should it matter" or indignant responses.....i'm just
> genuinely curious.
>
> andrew
>
>
> -
>
By all accounts, the Z digs chicks

sh


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: I gotta ask...
Date: 27 Feb 2002 14:52:58 -0800

>>>Is Zorn a homosexual? I've been wondering this for about a
year.<<<

Somebody's horny.




-




-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: I gotta ask...
Date: 27 Feb 2002 18:17:44 -0500

I think he was tipped off by Zorn's fashion sense...

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Rich Williams <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: I gotta ask...
Date: 27 Feb 2002 18:18:42 -0500

>on 2/27/02 2:10 PM, Andrew at [e-mail] wrote:
>
>>  Is Zorn a homosexual? I've been wondering this for about a year.
>>
>>  Please, no "why should it matter" or indignant responses.....i'm just
>>  genuinely curious.
>>
>>  andrew
>>
>>
>>  -
>>
>By all accounts, the Z digs chicks

    You mean the graffitti on the mens room wall at Tonic isn't True??  ;-)

Rich
(who has wondered whether people who are willing to ask  a 3rd person
about a total strangers sexuality
would have the nerve to walk up to that person and pose the same
question to them directly)
(BTW, I'm not indignant, just curious)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: William Crump <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #799
Date: 27 Feb 2002 17:09:10 -0800 (PST)

Remco wrote:
>>I have this slight fear, that, in this really good
book, you will read many things you have read
elsewhere. <<

Well, yes. I would hope so. I would like an exhaustive
biography, with nothing left out just because it's
been previously published. Everything I'm familiar
with about him previously has either lacked depth
(Michael Gray's "Mother!") or breadth (Nigey Lennon's
"I was Frank's lover" book), or even worse, had a
socio-political axe to grind, like "The Negative
Dialectics of Poodle Play." Isn't there some Richard
Ellmann (most excellent biographer of Oscar Wilde and,
I think, James Joyce) out there for Frank?

Skip wrote:
>>As for a really good exhaustive FZ bio, I don't
think it's something that will likely happen in Gail's
lifetime, if you know what I mean.<<

>>As for one where all the stories are accurate, a few
ex Mothers are going to have to moderate the vitriol
before we get anything other than unflattering tales
about FZ.  Ray Collins is particularly harsh, which is
a shame, because he was there before the beginning.<<

That's why it would be so valuable to do the research
NOW, because so many of the principals are still alive
and can lend perspective not only to FZ's life, but
also to why people around him may have parted ways
with him acrimoniously. Motorhead's still alive,
right? He was in Frank's circle of friends (or
"people-Frank-used," depending on your POV) as far
back as '62 or earlier. Don Van Vliet needs to be
interviewed, his siblings need to be found if they're
still alive, etc. etc. As for Gail... I know Frank
said near his death that he didn't care how or whether
he was remembered by future generations, but I can see
that Gail would care. That's a tough one. Has she
expressed a specific concern or reason for refusal?

Efren wrote:
>>I really think a very good Zappa biography already
exists: Neil Slaven's "Electric Don Quixote". <<

I haven't seen this one, but the title gives me pause.
To quote Dan Aykroyd way back when, "With a name like
'Mangled Baby Ducks,' this has GOT to be incredible
jam!" Such a low-grade pun on one of FZ's song titles
makes me worry that the book itself might not try very
hard. But I'm willing to give it the benefit of the
doubt.

I hate to go on and on about this, but I can't help
but think that posterity is running out of time on
getting the truest account of FZ's life and work. I
don't know why I'm getting in such a twist...I haven't
listened to any post-Mothers work in years. Wait, I
take that back... I still enjoy listening to Lather.

William Crump

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - Send FREE e-cards for every occasion!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: I gotta ask...
Date: 27 Feb 2002 18:38:25 -0700



>(who has wondered whether people who are willing to ask  a 3rd person
>about a total strangers sexuality
>would have the nerve to walk up to that person and pose the same
>question to them directly)

Maybe this is a bit of special case given that this particular 'total
stranger' happens to have a name which we all identify and so has some kind
of fame albeit amoung a group of wackos...

...famous people and sex.  Its our (mass american culture) favorite stuff.

I heard Zorn was actually sending 'secret admirer' cards to the Olson twins.

my favorite britney picture:
http://www.theonion.com/onion3735/a_shattered_nation.html

Matt

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #799
Date: 27 Feb 2002 17:43:22 -0800

on 2/27/02 5:09 PM, William Crump at [e-mail] wrote:

> As for Gail... I know Frank
> said near his death that he didn't care how or whether
> he was remembered by future generations, but I can see
> that Gail would care. That's a tough one. Has she
> expressed a specific concern or reason for refusal?
>
> Efren wrote:
>>> I really think a very good Zappa biography already
> exists: Neil Slaven's "Electric Don Quixote". <<
>
> I haven't seen this one, but the title gives me pause.
> To quote Dan Aykroyd way back when, "With a name like
> 'Mangled Baby Ducks,' this has GOT to be incredible
> jam!" Such a low-grade pun on one of FZ's song titles
> makes me worry that the book itself might not try very
> hard. But I'm willing to give it the benefit of the
> doubt.
>
> I hate to go on and on about this, but I can't help
> but think that posterity is running out of time on
> getting the truest account of FZ's life and work. I
> don't know why I'm getting in such a twist...I haven't
> listened to any post-Mothers work in years. Wait, I
> take that back... I still enjoy listening to Lather.
>
> William Crump

Your points are all salient.  Unfortunately, the vast majority of the people
who are still around from the pre-Ruth Underwood era have major-league axes
to grind, and several of them see themselves at the heart of the action.  I
have a letter here from Ray Collins that says in no uncertain terms that
whatever he says about "Dead Zappa" (his name for him) ain't gonna be good.

Beefheart has batted fr both sides of the plate, but, last I heard, he's not
in the best shape and has eschewed giving interviews.

Motorhead would be fantastic to talk to, because he's in good condition and
was there before the beginning.  He's actually a highway patrol cop now.

So many former bandmembers have sued FZ and his estate that I fear accurate
recollection is beyond our grasp at this point.

As for Gail's involvement, she's not exactly running around authorizing all
things FZ.  I can undertand this in the case of Nigey Lennon's book, but
not, say, Greg Russo's.  And she has apparently not been really easy to deal
with when various ensembles have approached her about performing some of
FZ's concert music.  The wealth of information and memorabilia of which she
has total control is staggering, but the chances that she'll loosen her
grasp on the stuff... It don't look good.  For instance, it has been about 2
yrs since the "impending release" of the ROXY &ELSEWHERE movie, but there's
no movie out nor does it look like there will be soon.  And the second
Ensemble Moderne/FZ CD is so vague in its availability that I found the best
way to get it is call 'em up, announce that you'll be in the neighborhood,
then drop by Zappa Records and pay cash.

In the midst of all these conflicts, I;d say your chances of getting a
really good, balanced book are in league with those of hell-bound snowballs.

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: zorn digs chicks.
Date: 27 Feb 2002 23:15:19 EST

<<who has wondered whether people who are willing to ask  a 3rd person about a total strangers sexuality would have the nerve to walk up to that person and pose the same question to them directly) BTW, I'm not indignant, just curious>>

you know, i've often wondered the same thing, why most people won't ask people directly.  so i decided that i would start doing so, when i began to queer-identify myself, also.  rawk.  i'd gladly walk up to zorn or any other famous person on the street and say "so what's yr deal, are you gay or what?"  ;)

love,
  k8.

p.s. - the OLSON twins?  that's close enough to gay...  or pedophilia...  <shudder>  and both of them, or just mary-kate, or just ashley??  now i'm curious.

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: zorn digs chicks.
Date: 27 Feb 2002 23:40:05 -0500

>> p.s. - the OLSON twins?  that's close enough to gay...  or
pedophilia...  <shudder>  and both of them, or just mary-kate, or just
ashley??  now i'm curious.

Actually this is a pretty common thing.  I have friends and just regular
folk that have a thing for the Olson twins now that they are getting a
little more mature and being marketed as "sexy."  I'm surprised that
Zorn is as conventional in his lust/obsession, but oh well.  I think for
people who have that kind of affection for the Olson twins, it's both of
them at the same time.  It's sick, I know.

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: zorn digs chicks.
Date: 27 Feb 2002 21:34:37 -0800

on 2/27/02 8:40 PM, Zachary Steiner at [e-mail] wrote:

> I think for
> people who have that kind of affection for the Olson twins, it's both of
> them at the same time.  It's sick, I know.

Yeah --one of them is weird enough, but TWO?

skip h


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Duke Wong" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn digs chicks
Date: 28 Feb 2002 01:02:39 -0500

I thought that Zorn's got a thing for young Asian girls.

>>p.s. - the OLSON twins?  that's close enough to gay...  or
pedophilia...  <shudder> and both of them, or just mary-kate, or just
ashley??  now i'm curious.

Also, I did not know there WAS a men's room at Tonic.

>>You mean the graffitti on the mens room wall at Tonic isn't True??  ;-)

To make this post musically relevent, does anyone know anything about Zorn's
new Satanist album?

Duke






_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jim Flannery <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #799
Date: 27 Feb 2002 23:12:44 -0800

skip Heller wrote:

> In the midst of all these conflicts, I;d say your chances of getting a
> really good, balanced book are in league with those of hell-bound snowballs.

I dunno, I thought that was the biographer's job ... at least, when s/he's not
hired by one of the feuding factions. Hey, if somebody managed to get a
relatively balanced book out of the snakepit that is ex-Throbbing Gristledom a
couple years ago, it doesn't seem that far-fetched; you just need someone who's
cognizant of what is an axe and who's doing the grinding (and how to avoid
becoming the wheel oneself). The more sides you can get data from, the better
the odds of triangulating amongst them are.

--
Jim Flannery                                             [e-mail]

          "It seems that the less respect you have for the legacy
           of jazz, the more likely you are to create it."
                                                      -- Steve Hanson
np: Monos, _360 degrees_
nr: Dan Simmons, _Song of Kali_


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #799
Date: 27 Feb 2002 23:25:52 -0800

on 2/27/02 11:12 PM, Jim Flannery at [e-mail] wrote:

> I dunno, I thought that was the biographer's job ... at least, when s/he's not
> hired by one of the feuding factions. Hey, if somebody managed to get a
> relatively balanced book out of the snakepit that is ex-Throbbing Gristledom a
> couple years ago, it doesn't seem that far-fetched; you just need someone
> who's
> cognizant of what is an axe and who's doing the grinding (and how to avoid
> becoming the wheel oneself). The more sides you can get data from, the better
> the odds of triangulating amongst them are.
>
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Jim Flannery

Yeah, but few biographers come at their subject without the feeling that
they already know what the truth is and they're gonna sort it out.  If
someone like Laura Hillenbrand was to write it, you'd get a great book,
because she really sees all the numbers in the quation (so to speak).  But
she's not writing about rock personalities at present.

And, where the Zappa thing is concerned, I know enough of the personalities
you'd have to deal with to do such a book, and it would be rougher than
most, because everyone has their version.  And their attorney.

sh


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Clint Nation <[e-mail]>
Subject: Game theory
Date: 27 Feb 2002 19:51:33 -0800




 Did any of Mr. Zorn's Cobra projects turn out according to the set
 plan.  Given the axioms of rational choice, the axioms that Mr. Zorn
 set-up, one should be predict the outcome of the musical interaction.
 As we know people do not always act rationally and this would lead to
 the piece not working out according to the "set" plan.  Note: Rational
 chaoice would be determined by the axioms set up  by Mr. Zorn.....i.e.
 "It is rational to prefer the destruction of the universe to the
 scratching of one's finger"-Hume.  If so what peices actually work out
 and are there any writings explaining the logic and axioms used?

A new member,
XQUIQ

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Ricardo Jorge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Ribot news
Date: 28 Feb 2002 09:32:00 +0000

any idea of how I can get my hands on this?

and a new project debuted, The Crackers, featuring Marc, Jamaaladeen Tacuma,
Calvin Weston, Dougie Bowne, and Marc Anthony Thompson.
writing and recording the film score for "The Killing Zone" (a documentary)
and contributing music to the Independent Film, "The Larami Project", which
won rave reviews at the Sundance Film Festival.


_________________________________________________________________
Converse com amigos on-line, experimente o MSN Messenger:
http://messenger.msn.com.br


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new fella'/ recommendations
Date: 28 Feb 2002 13:03:58 +0100


could I
> get some recommendations regarding similar artists  of this style using
> violin, cello etc, and common jazz elements to create such a wonderful
> sound, (the only other musician that I own who  gives me similar
> satisfaction is Django Reinhardt)

A young and upcoming violin player who does just this, is Oene van Geel. His
playing can be heard on cd's by the following groups, all might be available
in the US through Cadence.

Bite the Gnatze
Mosaic
On the Line

Regards, Remco Takken


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Jeroen de Boer <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new fella'/ recommendations
Date: 28 Feb 2002 13:51:53 +0100

Or try to find albums by the dutch Vogelkwartet, featuring violinist Jasper
Le Clerq:

http://www.xs4all.nl/~loplop/contents/jasperleclercq.html

Jeroen



>
> could I
>> get some recommendations regarding similar artists  of this style using
>> violin, cello etc, and common jazz elements to create such a wonderful
>> sound, (the only other musician that I own who  gives me similar
>> satisfaction is Django Reinhardt)
>
> A young and upcoming violin player who does just this, is Oene van Geel. His
> playing can be heard on cd's by the following groups, all might be available
> in the US through Cadence.
>
> Bite the Gnatze
> Mosaic
> On the Line
>
> Regards, Remco Takken
>
>
> -
>

Jeroen de Boer
content director Cyberslag Content Providing
Damsterdiep 15  9711SG Groningen    The Netherlands

t   [phone]
m   [phone]
f   [phone]
[e-mail]

www.cyberslag.nl


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From:    [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Non-JZ FS: K.K. Null (incl. guitar duets), Noto
Date: 28 Feb 2002 08:50:27 -0500

A few items of possible interest to Zorn-listees ...

** PRICES ARE US$ POSTAGE PAID ** in North America (more for overseas)
If you don't like a price, make me an OFFER.

$12 -- Noto - "Kerne" GER CD (Plate Lunch: 04) 1998
       [One of Carsten Nicolai's best.  18 minimal tracks.  Mint.]

OFFERS -- K.K. Null - "Inorganic Orgasm" US CD (Manifold: mancd25) 1998
       [7 tracks (62 min.) of droning, hypnotic, metallic-tinged and
       insect-like soundscapes.  Comes in resealable sleeve w/ original
       art (each one is different!) by Australian artist Seldon Hunt.
       Limited & hand numbered (#41/500).]

$16 -- V/A - "Guitar Organism" JAP CD (Nux: nux-d13) 1995
       [60 min. of K.K. Null guitar duets w/ Fred Frith, Jim O'Rourke,
       Ichiro Agata & Guy Lohnes.  The Frith piece is 27 min. live in
       Tokyo (1990), and the O'Rourke piece is 18+ min. (from the "New
       Kind Of Water" session, 1991).  Mint.]

Thanks for looking,


-Patrick
[e-mail]







-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Bruno Bissonnette" <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: I gotta ask
Date: 28 Feb 2002 09:16:52 -0500

I think that he's not... wasn't he married to (or at least heavily involved
with) Ikue Mori at some point?  I know that they're back to being simple
friends (and musical associates), but I'm pretty sure that some time ago
they were romantically linked.

>on 2/27/02 2:10 PM, Andrew at [e-mail] wrote:
>
>>  Is Zorn a homosexual? I've been wondering this for about a year.
>>
>>  Please, no "why should it matter" or indignant responses.....i'm just
>>  genuinely curious.
>>
>>  andrew

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Do ya gotta ask?
Date: 28 Feb 2002 09:30:49 -0500

You can always tell when Rizzi's on vacation.

Bruno Bissonnette wrote:

> I think that he's not...

>
> >>  Is Zorn a homosexual?


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: I gotta ask
Date: 28 Feb 2002 10:02:53 -0500

It's funny, I always thought that Zorn was asexual.  I believed that at
an appointed time in the not so distant future, he would go through
mitosis and make a new Zorn.  It's always hard when your heroes turn out
to be human after all (a human that likes the Olson twins, no less).

Zach



-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: heroes.
Date: 28 Feb 2002 10:57:59 EST


In a message dated 02.28.02 10.03.57, [e-mail] writes:

>It's always hard when your heroes turn out
>to be human after all (a human that likes the Olson twins, no less).

oh, c'mon now.  it's the olson twins.  don't be so hard on john - clearly
that does not make him human.  ;)

love,
  k8.




---
[.n0thing.is.what.is.sAid.]
k a t e  p e t e r s o n
c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r

http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html
http://www.icefoundation.org (roundtable)

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Olson Twins?
Date: 28 Feb 2002 11:01:16 EST


--part1_ca.7525f0c.29afae4c_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Who are the Olson twins?  From Little House on the Prairie?  Aren't they in
their late-20s now?

Completely in the dark,
Tom

In a message dated 2/28/02 10:59:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail]
writes:


>
> >It's always hard when your heroes turn out
> >to be human after all (a human that likes the Olson twins, no less).
>
> oh, c'mon now.  it's the olson twins.  don't be so hard on john - clearly
> that does not make him human.  ;)
>
> love,
>   k8.
>
>
>
>
>


______________________________________________________________________
Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately,
and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music."

--part1_ca.7525f0c.29afae4c_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>Who are the Olson twins?  From Little House on the Prairie?  Aren't they in their late-20s now?<BR>
<BR>
Completely in the dark,<BR>
Tom<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 2/28/02 10:59:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR>
>It's always hard when your heroes turn out<BR>
>to be human after all (a human that likes the Olson twins, no less).<BR>
<BR>
oh, c'mon now.  it's the olson twins.  don't be so hard on john - clearly <BR>
that does not make him human.  ;)<BR>
<BR>
love,<BR>
  k8.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________________________<BR>
Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately, and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music."</FONT></HTML>

--part1_ca.7525f0c.29afae4c_boundary--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Joeseph Simon" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Olson Twins?
Date: 28 Feb 2002 11:06:55 -0500

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C1C048.083BCE40
Content-Type: text/plain;
    charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Full House....if it was Little House, they would be in thier 40's to 50s
then.

J
  -----Original Message-----
  From: [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of
[e-mail]
  Sent: Thursday, February 28, 2002 11:01 AM
  To: [e-mail]; [e-mail]
  Subject: Olson Twins?


  Who are the Olson twins?  From Little House on the Prairie?  Aren't they
in their late-20s now?

  Completely in the dark,
  Tom

  In a message dated 2/28/02 10:59:03 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:




    >It's always hard when your heroes turn out
    >to be human after all (a human that likes the Olson twins, no less).

    oh, c'mon now.  it's the olson twins.  don't be so hard on john -
clearly
    that does not make him human.  ;)

    love,
      k8.








  ______________________________________________________________________
  Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately,
and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music."

------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C1C048.083BCE40
Content-Type: text/html;
    charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii">
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.50.4611.1300" name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D760550516-28022002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Full=20
House....if it was Little House, they would be in thier 40's to=20
50s then.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D760550516-28022002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN> </DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D760550516-28022002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>J</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE>
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B>=20
  [e-mail]=20
  [mailto:[e-mail]]<B>On Behalf Of=20
  </B>[e-mail]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, February 28, 2002 =
11:01=20
  AM<BR><B>To:</B> [e-mail];=20
  [e-mail]<BR><B>Subject:</B> Olson=20
  Twins?<BR><BR></FONT></DIV><FONT face=3Darial,helvetica><FONT =
size=3D2>Who are the=20
  Olson twins?  From Little House on the Prairie?  Aren't they =
in=20
  their late-20s now?<BR><BR>Completely in the dark,<BR>Tom<BR><BR>In a =
message=20
  dated 2/28/02 10:59:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail]=20
  writes:<BR><BR><BR>
  <BLOCKQUOTE=20
  style=3D"PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px =
solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"=20
  TYPE=3D"CITE"><BR>>It's always hard when your heroes turn =
out<BR>>to be=20
    human after all (a human that likes the Olson twins, no =
less).<BR><BR>oh,=20
    c'mon now.  it's the olson twins.  don't be so hard on =
john -=20
    clearly <BR>that does not make him human.  =
;)<BR><BR>love,<BR> =20
    =
k8.<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>_________________________=
_____________________________________________<BR>Phil=20
  Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately, =
and=20
  enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music."</FONT>=20
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

------=_NextPart_000_0056_01C1C048.083BCE40--


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: I gotta ask
Date: 28 Feb 2002 11:29:39 -0500 (EST)

Hey guys:

Fun is fun, but we wouldn't want someone's off-handed
joke linking JZ and the O twins to be thought of as
gospel truth. If anything will turn Zorn into a
recluse it's rumors like that.

But Skip, what's this I hear about Ornette and Mary
Kate and those rumors about Frank Zappa's
collaboration with Ashley before his unfortunate
death... or was it rocker John Stamos? Is that what
Gail is trying to keep from us?

Ken

--- Zachary Steiner <[e-mail]> wrote:
> It's funny, I always thought that Zorn was asexual.
> I believed that at an appointed time in the not so
distant future, he would go through mitosis and make a
new Zorn.  It's always hard when your heroes turn out
> to be human after all (a human that likes the Olson
> twins, no less).


=====
Ken Waxman
[e-mail]
www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos

______________________________________________________________________
Find, Connect, Date! http://personals.yahoo.ca

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Olson Twins?
Date: 28 Feb 2002 12:00:08 EST


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In a message dated 2/28/02 11:04:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail]
writes:


> Full House

Full House?  A TV show?

Still in the dark,
Tom
______________________________________________________________________
Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately,
and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music."

--part1_17c.4562a8a.29afbc18_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/28/02 11:04:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000ff" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Full House</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"><BR>
Full House?  A TV show?<BR>
<BR>
Still in the dark,<BR>
Tom<BR>
______________________________________________________________________<BR>
Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately, and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music."</FONT></HTML>

--part1_17c.4562a8a.29afbc18_boundary--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Game theory
Date: 28 Feb 2002 12:11:22 -0600

On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 07:51:33PM -0800, Clint Nation wrote:
>
>
>  Did any of Mr. Zorn's Cobra projects turn out according to the set
>  plan.  Given the axioms of rational choice, the axioms that Mr. Zorn
>  set-up, one should be predict the outcome of the musical interaction.
>  As we know people do not always act rationally and this would lead to
>  the piece not working out according to the "set" plan.  Note: Rational
>  chaoice would be determined by the axioms set up  by Mr. Zorn.....i.e.
>  "It is rational to prefer the destruction of the universe to the
>  scratching of one's finger"-Hume.  If so what peices actually work out
>  and are there any writings explaining the logic and axioms used?

Hmm. From what little I know of game theory and of musical game pieces,
I don't know that this would be all that applicable. There are no
winners and losers in these games, and there's not much of a
definable basis by which one arbitrary choice might be better than
another.

What do you see as the axioms set up in these pieces?

--
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems        |
|                            http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html |
| Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Whit Schonbein <[e-mail]>
Subject: last minute LA question + previte mini review
Date: 28 Feb 2002 11:23:50 -0600 (CST)


1. I'm off to Los Angeles sunday for a week.  A perusal of the Knitting
Factory Hollywood website was discouraging.  Anybody know of anything
interesting going on, muscially?  By interesting I mean improv music,
including some more straight ahead stuff, e.g., mehldau or chris potter's
quartet.

2. I picked up Bobby Previte's '23 constellations...' tuesday, and have
been listening to it every day since.  I for one think he hit the nail on
the head - the musical paintings composed by previte and performed so well
by the ensemble definitely make me think of miro's constellations series .
not that I would have made that association without the full-color
reproductions of the paintings included in the booklet, but once you have
them to look at, one can feel where the inspiration for each musical piece
came from.  The music is often playful, often happy, sometimes brooding,
sometimes epic, somtimes free, but always under that sort of control only
very good musicians (and band leaders) can enforce - very much previte
(and also very much tonal - this isn't another atonal-modern-classical-ish
bit of music). And each piece is short - 2-3 minutes; at first this was
distracting - i felt they didn't last long enough to really get a feel for
what was going on.  but after multiple listens, the structure, melody,
harmonies, and moods of each piece became more apparent, and my
appreciation has increased as a result.  Another recent winner from Tzadik
(the other being Ibarra's latest)...

cheers,
whit
np - the soft boys, 'underwater moonlight'


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Olson Twins? (absolutely no Z-content)
Date: 28 Feb 2002 18:26:26 +0100 (CET)

Yes, a TV-series. It also run in Spain for many years.
It was about a widowed guy who lived with his three
daughters, his brother-in-law (who was a musician and
didn't allow anyone to touch his hair, if I recall),
the latter's finaceΘ and a stupid friend who imitated
the Yogui Bear among others.
The youngest daughter was alternatively one of the
Olson twins (blonde, blue-eyed- could be green but I'm
color-blind!).
It was supposed to be a comedy. Does it ring a bell
now?
The location was San Francisco. It was one of those
life-is-a-wonderful-thing series.


EfrΘn del Valle
n.p: Robert Wyatt "Schleep"
> > Full House
>
> Full House?  A TV show?
>
> Still in the dark,
> Tom
>
______________________________________________________________________
> Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of
> Andrew Lloyd Webber lately,
> and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to
> music."
>

_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: last minute LA question + previte mini review
Date: 28 Feb 2002 18:31:10 +0100 (CET)

HI,

Whit wrote:

Another recent winner from Tzadik
> (the other being Ibarra's latest)...
>

Total disagreement here, Whit. For me, the dullest
Ibarra release to date as I said some days ago. I
played it again yesterday and this morning and,
sincerely, I find no substance there aside of the
players' obvious skills, which aren't too exposed
here, anyway (except maybe Choi).

Just an opinion.

Best,

EfrΘn del VAlle

_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Olson Twins?
Date: 28 Feb 2002 17:42:48 +0000

>From: [e-mail]

>Who are the Olson twins?

Evil incarnate!

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: another burning question
Date: 28 Feb 2002 09:59:07 -0800

olsen twins, the sex life of zorn, ornette playing out of tune....

what i really want to know: is it true that ornette had himself catstrated
in the mid-60s so that sexual urges would no longer distract him from his
art? i mean, did complain a couple times about that distraction in earlier
interviews and he does have a bit of a squeak in his voice, just like my
grandfather got after having a cancer-related operation of that type
(which, btw, he reported made him feel much better).

also, where is a good place to start with the olsen twins?

martin

np. joe farrell -- moon germs


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Olson Twins? (absolutely no Z-content)
Date: 28 Feb 2002 19:06:36 +0100 (CET)


Yes, a TV-series. It also run in Spain for many
years.
It was about a widowed guy who lived with his three
daughters, his brother-in-law (who was a musician
and didn't allow anyone to touch his hair, if I
recall), the latter's finaceΘ and a stupid friend who
imitated the Yogui Bear among others.
The youngest daughter was alternatively one of the
Olson twins (blonde, blue-eyed- could be green but
I'm color-blind!).
It was supposed to be a comedy. Does it ring a bell
now?
The location was San Francisco. It was one of those
life-is-a-wonderful-thing series.


EfrΘn del Valle
n.p: Robert Wyatt "Schleep"
> > > Full House
> >
> > Full House?  A TV show?
> >
> > Still in the dark,
> > Tom
> >
>
______________________________________________________________________
> > Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of
> > Andrew Lloyd Webber lately,
> > and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff
> to
> > music."
> >
>
>
_______________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Messenger
> Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
> http://messenger.yahoo.es
>

_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Olson Twins? (absolutely no Z-content)
Date: 28 Feb 2002 13:08:57 EST


--part1_39.2326a285.29afcc39_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks for the description.  Not sure I'm going to seek this one out, though=
,=20
despite the Olson twins.  :)

Tom

In a message dated 2/28/02 12:27:04 PM Eastern Standard Time,=20
[e-mail] writes:


> Yes, a TV-series. It also run in Spain for many years.
> It was about a widowed guy who lived with his three
> daughters, his brother-in-law (who was a musician and
> didn't allow anyone to touch his hair, if I recall),
> the latter's finace=E9 and a stupid friend who imitated
> the Yogui Bear among others.=20
> The youngest daughter was alternatively one of the
> Olson twins (blonde, blue-eyed- could be green but I'm
> color-blind!).=20
> It was supposed to be a comedy. Does it ring a bell
> now?
> The location was San Francisco. It was one of those
> life-is-a-wonderful-thing series.
>=20
>=20
> Efr=E9n del Valle
> n.p: Robert Wyatt "Schleep"
>=20


______________________________________________________________________
Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately,=20
and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music."

--part1_39.2326a285.29afcc39_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=3D2>Thanks for the descriptio=
n.  Not sure I'm going to seek this one out, though, despite the Olson=20=
twins.  :)<BR>
<BR>
Tom<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 2/28/02 12:27:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, efrendv@yahoo.=
es writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=3DCITE style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT=
: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Yes, a TV-series. It also run i=
n Spain for many years.<BR>
It was about a widowed guy who lived with his three<BR>
daughters, his brother-in-law (who was a musician and<BR>
didn't allow anyone to touch his hair, if I recall),<BR>
the latter's finace=E9 and a stupid friend who imitated<BR>
the Yogui Bear among others. <BR>
The youngest daughter was alternatively one of the<BR>
Olson twins (blonde, blue-eyed- could be green but I'm<BR>
color-blind!). <BR>
It was supposed to be a comedy. Does it ring a bell<BR>
now?<BR>
The location was San Francisco. It was one of those<BR>
life-is-a-wonderful-thing series.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Efr=E9n del Valle<BR>
n.p: Robert Wyatt "Schleep"<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
______________________________________________________________________<BR>
Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately, a=
nd enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music."</FONT></HTML>

--part1_39.2326a285.29afcc39_boundary--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: another burning question
Date: 28 Feb 2002 13:07:32 -0600

On Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 09:59:07AM -0800, [e-mail] wrote:
> olsen twins, the sex life of zorn, ornette playing out of tune....
[snips]
> also, where is a good place to start with the olsen twins?

Check out their eponymous album, which consists of a song-for-song
faithful cover of Ornette's album "Twins", followed by a CD bonus
track of their version of Terry Riley's "Olsen III".

:-)

--
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems        |
|                            http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html |
| Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: another burning question
Date: 28 Feb 2002 13:17:50 -0500

>> is it true that ornette had himself catstrated
in the mid-60s so that sexual urges would no longer distract him from
his
art?

If anything will turn Ornette into a recluse it's rumors like that... ;)

I'm partial to early Olsen Twins such as "Brother For Sale" and "I am
the Cute One."  Though "Winning London," their most recent effort, has a
mature sound and tight performances by all, but doesn't have the raw
energy and charm of the two previously mentioned albums.  I'm also a big
fan of their film work.  Any one check out their foray into the world of
literature?

Zach





-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: FW: o twins
Date: 28 Feb 2002 11:31:31 -0700



whoa now!

At the risk of any of this drizzling out into the world at large and - =
god
forbid - reaching and frightening Mr. Zorn in seclusion or something =
more
terrible I'm going to repost my
message with a bit of commentary

>..famous people and sex.=A0 Its our (mass american culture) favorite
stuff.=20
>I heard Zorn was actually sending 'secret admirer' cards to the Olson
twins.=20
>my favorite britney picture:=20
>http://www.theonion.com/onion3735/a_shattered_nation.html=20

these three statments were in succession and I admit it is a little
vauge but I have absolutely NO information regarding Zorn's love life =
or
personal life for that matter.
I figured that the link might help further put the joke in perspective
but...

sorry for the nearly shattering the Zorn action figure complete with =
battery
operated pants.

Matt

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Game Theory
Date: 28 Feb 2002 12:33:50 -0600

Clint Nation <[e-mail]> asks:

>
>  Did any of Mr. Zorn's Cobra projects turn out according to the set
>  plan.  Given the axioms of rational choice, the axioms that Mr. Zorn
>  set-up, one should be predict the outcome of the musical interaction.
>  As we know people do not always act rationally and this would lead to
>  the piece not working out according to the "set" plan.  Note: Rational
>  chaoice would be determined by the axioms set up  by Mr. Zorn.....i.e.
>  "It is rational to prefer the destruction of the universe to the
>  scratching of one's finger"-Hume.  If so what peices actually work out
>  and are there any writings explaining the logic and axioms used?
>
>A new member,
>XQUIQ

Maybe I'm not fully understanding what you write here, but these
pieces aren't just outlines that Zorn didn't fill in entirely,
they're like "real" games with sets of rules, but options for
individual players within these rules. The range of actions and
interactions is wide enough that there's no sense in trying to
predict the outcome.

Just as in baseball or hockey or chess or whatever, of course, based
on past performances, you can always "predict" that one team or
individual will kick another's butt, but the game doesn't always go
the way you think it will. A baseball game in which the Texas Rangers
beat the Seattle Mariners might be unlikely, based on last year's
teams at least, but it could still follow all of the rules of
baseball and be unpredictable in this way.

The FAQ <http://www.browbeat.com/zornlist/faq.html> has a lengthy
description of game pieces that may be of help. Or not.

Bests,

Herb
--
Herb Levy
Mappings on Antenna Internet Radio
<http://www.antennaradio/avant/mappings/>
[e-mail]

Mappings  P O Box 9369  Forth Wort, TX 76147  USA

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: another burning question
Date: 28 Feb 2002 15:38:08 EST


--part1_182.45de689.29afef30_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 2/28/2002 1:03:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


>
> also, where is a good place to start with the olsen twins?
>

Pretty much anywhere, as long as you've just finished playing the entire
Captain and Tennille catalog first.

Dale.

--part1_182.45de689.29afef30_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B>In a message dated 2/28/2002 1:03:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></B><BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px"><BR>
also, where is a good place to start with the olsen twins?<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT  COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><B><BR>
Pretty much anywhere, as long as you've just finished playing the entire Captain and Tennille catalog first.<BR>
<BR>
Dale.</B></FONT></HTML>

--part1_182.45de689.29afef30_boundary--

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Andrew" <[e-mail]>
Subject: gamelan breaks?
Date: 28 Feb 2002 15:49:37 -0500

Ok.....so I'm really digging the sound of the Gamelan, and i'm loving that
track on Filmworks X that's all Gamelan. What are some discs of Gamelan
music that I should check out?

andrew


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: another burning question
Date: 28 Feb 2002 15:02:03 -0600

[e-mail] asked:

>what i really want to know: is it true that ornette had himself catstrated
>in the mid-60s so that sexual urges would no longer distract him from his
>art? i mean, did complain a couple times about that distraction in earlier
>interviews and he does have a bit of a squeak in his voice, just like my
>grandfather got after having a cancer-related operation of that type
>(which, btw, he reported made him feel much better).

According to an interview in Ornette: Made in America, Shirley
Clarke's movie about Ornette Coleman, he asked a doctor to castrate
him, but the doctor convinced him that getting circumcised would be
enough.


--
Herb Levy
P O Box 9369  Forth Wort, Texas  76147  USA
817  377-2983
[e-mail]

-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: balls out coleman
Date: 28 Feb 2002 21:12:44 +0000

i'm not going to claim any knowledge of ornette's ejaculate (free jizz?),
but in an incredibly odd, terribly 80s and not particularly good documentary
called 'made in america' he does, as i recall, say that he was castrated in
order to concentrate more fully on music. this is the same film that shows
him on an exercise bike in an orange jumpsuit against a black screen,
talking about how he will travel in space before he dies.

or something. point being, i don't know what he or shirley clarke were on
(don't miss the endless flashing neon triangles over people's faces), but
just because he said it don't convince me it's true. see it, not it's good,
but because you won't believe how stangefuckingawfulweird it is.

i have a headache.

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Alan Kayser" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Previte "Miro"
Date: 28 Feb 2002 16:20:41 -0500

Whit Schobein wrote

"2. I picked up Bobby Previte's '23 constellations...' tuesday, and have
been listening to it every day since.  I for one think he hit the nail on
the head - the musical paintings composed by previte and performed so well
by the ensemble definitely make me think of miro's constellations series
.not that I would have made that association without the full-color
reproductions of the paintings included in the booklet, but once you have
them to look at, one can feel where the inspiration for each musical piece
came from.  The music is often playful, often happy, sometimes brooding,
sometimes epic, somtimes free, but always under that sort of control only
very good musicians (and band leaders) can enforce - very much previte (and
also very much tonal - this isn't another atonal-modern-classical-ish bit of
music). And each piece is short - 2-3 minutes; at first this was distracting
- i felt they didn't last long enough to really get a feel for what was
going on.  but after multiple listens, the structure, melody,
harmonies, and moods of each piece became more apparent, and my
appreciation has increased as a result.  Another recent winner from
Tzadik..."

Total agreement.  Thank goodness it's not one of those third stream
attempts.  In fact it's not an easy work to categorize, much like Miro
himself.  Though the pieces are short, my feeling is that they hang together
as one, again reflecting Miro's pieces which were done as a series.  I've
listened to it quite a few times, and each time another instruemnt seems to
rise to the top, very much like first hearing Pharoah's Dance or Miles Runs
the Voodoo Down.

Speaking of Voodoo, anyone heading out to catch Bobby's Voodoo (formerly The
Horse) tonight?  I would, but the 1000 miles drive would get me there a bit
late.  If you are going (and preserving the moment...hint) please contact me
off line.

Alan Kayser
np Mujician "Spacetime"





_________________________________________________________________
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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: another burning question
Date: 28 Feb 2002 16:34:13 -0500 (EST)

Martin:

According to John Litwiller (sp)'s bio of Ornette,
after he asked a doctor about castration, the medical
man suggested circumcision -- symbolic castration as
he put it -- hm.

As for the Olsen Twins, the place place to start is
not.

Ken

--- [e-mail] wrote:
> olsen twins, the sex life of zorn, ornette playing
> out of tune....
>
> what i really want to know: is it true that ornette
> had himself catstrated
> in the mid-60s so that sexual urges would no longer
> distract him from his
> art? i mean, did complain a couple times about that
> distraction in earlier
> interviews and he does have a bit of a squeak in his
> voice, just like my
> grandfather got after having a cancer-related
> operation of that type
> (which, btw, he reported made him feel much better).
>
> also, where is a good place to start with the olsen
> twins?


=====
Ken Waxman
[e-mail]
www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos

______________________________________________________________________
Find, Connect, Date! http://personals.yahoo.ca

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From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: another burning question
Date: 28 Feb 2002 13:41:35 -0800


On Thu, 28 Feb 2002 16:34:13 -0500 (EST)  Ken Waxman wrote:
>
> Martin:
>
> According to John Litwiller (sp)'s bio of Ornette,
> after he asked a doctor about castration, the medical
> man suggested circumcision -- symbolic castration as
> he put it -- hm.

We poor humans are fortunate to be allowed to trade the true thing
for its watered down version (the "symbolic" one), it helps us, at
least, to avoid the ridicule and keep a straight face :-).

But if Coleman's problem could be completely solved on the symbolic
level, that surely means that it was not a really tragic one
(thanks for us).

    Patrice.

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From: florid oratory <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: LA question
Date: 28 Feb 2002 13:55:17 -0800

whit, check out a club called rocco, i think the site is roccoinla.org.
also, first sunday of the month has decent groups, leaning outside, at the
eagle rock community cultural center--the series is programmed by alex
cline, nels' great drumming brother.

also go to the cryptogrammophone records website and email an inquiry to
jeff gauthier. he'll know a few things....

--graham connah

>
> Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 11:23:50 -0600 (CST)
> From: Whit Schonbein <[e-mail]>
> Subject: last minute LA question + previte mini review
>
> 1. I'm off to Los Angeles sunday for a week.  A perusal of the Knitting
> Factory Hollywood website was discouraging.  Anybody know of anything
> interesting going on, muscially?  By interesting I mean improv music,
> including some more straight ahead stuff, e.g., mehldau or chris potter's
> quartet.


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From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: minilp
Date: 28 Feb 2002 22:00:20 +0000

hi -- lifted this off the jazzmatazz site (the proprietor of which, i
believe, is online here). what the devil's a 'mini lp'?

Gigi Gryce/Donald Byrd & Cecil Taylor - Jazz Lab & Quartet At Newport
(Verve) Sept ù mini-LP
Sister Rosetta Tharpe - Gospel Train (Verve) Sept ù mini-LP
Farmer/Golson Jazztet - At Birdhouse (Verve) Sept ù mini-LP
Sam Rivers - Crystals (Verve/Impulse!) Sept ù mini-LP
Cal Tjader - Soul Bird: Whiffenpoof (Verve) Sept ù mini-LP


_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: minilp
Date: 28 Feb 2002 16:58:33 -0500



>hi -- lifted this off the jazzmatazz site (the proprietor of which, i
>believe, is online here). what the devil's a 'mini lp'?

mini LP's are cd packages made to look just like, well, mini lp's.  they
often have gatefolds and all original packaging.  I saw a bunch of Impulse
titles out in Japan (including a remastered Tauhid!).  Blue Note Japan and
Sony Japan have done a bunch too.  Get Back label out of Italy did the Sun
Ra ESP discs a couple years ago, and a label called Vido did the first 20 or
so Zappa releases.  They're basically for fetishists (myself included),
although there are some available overseas with remastering that hasn't been
unleashed on us stateside.  I'm sure those Verve titles you listed will
simply be rereleases done in that spiffy packaging.

I have spoken to a few people who don't like them because they aren't the
same size as a jewel case, but I think they're pretty cool.

sean


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From: "nors5379" <[e-mail]>
Subject: zorn piece to be played at Eastman School of Music
Date: 28 Feb 2002 22:14:03 GMT

it was brought to my attention by a friend who attends
Eastman that a Zorn piece is to be performed next thursday
night as part of the monthly 'musica nova' series which is
ran by brad lubman if im correct. theres no mention of what
piece is to be performed but its next thursday night in
kilbourn hall.
more info can be found here under the march 7th listing...
http://www.rochester.edu/Eastman/community_visitors/cv_conce
rtcalendar.htm

-darryl.
Darryl Norsen
db.etree.org/shortround
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

if I were an easy bright boy I think
I would say something like, "cleaning
the fingernails with a dirty fingernail
file is a form of masterbation." and I
would probably win a scholarship, a grant,
the king's sword on shoulder and 14 hot
pieces of ass. -charles bukowski


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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: minilp
Date: 28 Feb 2002 22:14:40 +0000


>mini LP's are cd packages made to look just like, well, mini lp's.

oh. yeah. i like those. stupid name for them, tho, yeah?

_________________________________________________________________
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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Clint Nation <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Game Theory
Date: 28 Feb 2002 10:16:45 -0800



Herb Levy wrote:
>
> Clint Nation <[e-mail]> asks:
>
> >
> >  Did any of Mr. Zorn's Cobra projects turn out according to the set
> >  plan.  Given the axioms of rational choice, the axioms that Mr. Zorn
> >  set-up, one should be predict the outcome of the musical interaction.
> >  As we know people do not always act rationally and this would lead to
> >  the piece not working out according to the "set" plan.  Note: Rational
> >  chaoice would be determined by the axioms set up  by Mr. Zorn.....i.e.
> >  "It is rational to prefer the destruction of the universe to the
> >  scratching of one's finger"-Hume.  If so what peices actually work out
> >  and are there any writings explaining the logic and axioms used?
> >
> >A new member,
> >XQUIQ
>
> Maybe I'm not fully understanding what you write here, but these
> pieces aren't just outlines that Zorn didn't fill in entirely,
> they're like "real" games with sets of rules, but options for
> individual players within these rules. The range of actions and
> interactions is wide enough that there's no sense in trying to
> predict the outcome.
>
> Just as in baseball or hockey or chess or whatever, of course, based
> on past performances, you can always "predict" that one team or
> individual will kick another's butt, but the game doesn't always go
> the way you think it will. A baseball game in which the Texas Rangers
> beat the Seattle Mariners might be unlikely, based on last year's
> teams at least, but it could still follow all of the rules of
> baseball and be unpredictable in this way.
>
> The FAQ <http://www.browbeat.com/zornlist/faq.html> has a lengthy
> description of game pieces that may be of help. Or not.
>
> Bests,
>
> Herb
> --
> Herb Levy
> Mappings on Antenna Internet Radio
> <http://www.antennaradio/avant/mappings/>
> [e-mail]
>
> Mappings  P O Box 9369  Forth Wort, TX 76147  USA
>
> -
Mr. Zitt and Mr. Levy,
There doesn't have to be a winner or loser in a noncompetitive game.
Also, the fact that there "rules" (once again set out by Mr. Zorn)
implies that the choices the players makes are not arbitrary.  However,
as in real life, or in baseball, people are free to play within this
rules.  I realize that Mr. Zorn's game pieces are like "real" games with
sets of rules, in which each individual player plays within these
rules.
    I realize now that I may have been asking to much when I asked which
peices actually worked out.  However it may not be to much to ask which
pieces actually followed the structure of the game and which strategies
where available to the players?  In addition, what are the rules that
Mr. Zorn set up for some of these game(are they available anywhere)?
I realize that this discussion may not be considered in the realm of
game theory(yet!!!) but given this information I will be able to model
the interactions between the musicians and model the game more
formally(possibly using game theory).
If you have an more information please feel free to add a comment.....
P.S. Thank you Mr. Zitt and Mr. Levy for your response.
P.P.S.  I am writing my undergraduate honors essay(mathematics) on
modelling musical interactions using game theory.....I figured the best
place to start would be Mr. Zorn's Cobra.
XQuiQ

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Game Theory
Date: 28 Feb 2002 18:31:37 -0600

On Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 10:16:45AM -0800, Clint Nation wrote:

> Also, the fact that there "rules" (once again set out by Mr. Zorn)
> implies that the choices the players makes are not arbitrary.  However,
> as in real life, or in baseball, people are free to play within this
> rules.  I realize that Mr. Zorn's game pieces are like "real" games with
> sets of rules, in which each individual player plays within these
> rules.

Well, it depends how you apply the word "arbitrary". Of course, there
are rules, but no musical situation exists without some constraints on
the players, though these may be as subtle and unexamined as the
physical constraints of the chosen instruments. Similarly, no ensemble
music operates without some sort of interaction of the musicians, even
if that interaction consists of ignoring one another (the sounds still
mix in the air). And all music involves a degree of improvisation and
interpretation (with the possible exception of the act of playing back
an existing recording).

> P.P.S.  I am writing my undergraduate honors essay(mathematics) on
> modelling musical interactions using game theory.....I figured the best
> place to start would be Mr. Zorn's Cobra.

I would be quite interested in ready what you come up with.

<Personal_Plug>
My recent book (see below) contains some improvisation structures and
related materials that may interest you.
</Personal_Plug>

--
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems        |
|                            http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html |
| Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: gamelan breaks?
Date: 28 Feb 2002 18:46:16 -0600

On Thu, Feb 28, 2002 at 03:49:37PM -0500, Andrew wrote:
> Ok.....so I'm really digging the sound of the Gamelan, and i'm loving that
> track on Filmworks X that's all Gamelan. What are some discs of Gamelan
> music that I should check out?

I recall an excellent introduction on the Nonesuch label named "Music
for the Morning of the World".  There's also a very good triple disc,
"The Bali Sessions", produced by Mickey Hart on Rykodisc. For an
intersection of 20th Century avant-garde with gamelan, check out the
group Gamelan Son of Lion.

--
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems        |
|                            http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html |
| Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: "gorilla thing" <[e-mail]>
Subject: new fella' thankyou's/ New Model Army
Date: 28 Feb 2002 15:57:05 -0800

Hello,

thank you all for the recommendations, I'm doing some fishing to find out
your results.
since it seems most of the Zornies are huge music fans, what is your take on
New Model Army?
One of my favorites since high school that continue to bash out great music.

Thanks to all for their help.

Chad

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-



-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Albrecht Koschnik <[e-mail]>
Subject: gamelan
Date: 28 Feb 2002 19:23:32 -0500 (EST)


How about Philip Corner, '3 Pieces for Gamelan Ensemble'?!

And: Celestial Harmonies has a three-CD set, 'The Music of Cambodia';
'9 Gong Gamelan' is devoted to a Gamelan ensemble recorded inside Angkor
Wat (central temple of Khmer culture) [should be available separately].
In general, Celestial H. has a bunch of similar sets, Vietnam, Bali,
China, which are highly addictive.

Albrecht

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-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Perfect Sound Forever <[e-mail]>
Subject: Bud Powell, Kenny Millions articles
Date: 28 Feb 2002 22:21:29 -0500

Greetings

In the latest edition of Perfect Sound Forever online music magazine
<http://www.furious.com/perfect>, you'll find (among other things):

KENNY MILLIONS
Mark Swartz interviews the loft-jazz to sushi-blues legend

BUD POWELL
Mad genius of be-bop: D.A. Nation looks at the sad, brutal life of this
under-rated piano prestidigitator


We're always looking for good material so let us know if you have any
writing or ideas for upcoming issues.

See you online,
Jason

Perfect Sound Forever
online music magazine
[e-mail]
http://www.furious.com/perfect


-