>Those are the scenes that we want to see in the DVD... in what I >call the director's cut.
I'm not intimately familiar with the production history of Fire Walk With Me but everything I've read indicates that the longer version was a rough cut which would be in line with standard practice anyway. I would be surprised if the longer version was in a releasable form since I haven't seen anything that indicates it was but again who knows? Since Lynch apparently had rights to final edit on the film the released version is in fact a director's cut. Still, I'd love to see a DVD with both versions.
There's a growing tendency to refer to any long or expanded version as a director's cut when that's often not true. For examples the long version of Touch of Evil when there can never be a director's cut for that film or even the long version of Dune which was explicitly disowned by the director, but there are plenty more. And these aren't even always better: the revised "director's cuts" of Star Wars and Lethal Weapon are both clearly worse than the originals. Most films are too long anyway.
>I heard a rumor that the Directors Cut of Blood Simple was shorter >than the original. True?
Depends. Both versions have a running time of 97 minutes but apparently the "Director's Cut" (I'm using quotes because they're really both director's cuts) makes up for the trimming with the faked restoration introduction. So really the story is shorter even though the total time is the same.
Peter Weir's recent re-edit of Picnic at Hanging Rock is shorter than the original by about seven minutes.
Check out their recent comp on Sympathy for the Record Industry too- 1982-1984
> Top 10 books read in 2001 - I won't even bother trying to stick to 2001
> releases here...
> Terry Southern "The Magic Christian"
Koch just came out with an interesting comp of his work, read by Allen Ginsberg among others- it's "Give Me Your Hump!: The Unspeakable Terry Southern Record"
In a message dated Wed, 2 Jan 2002 4:31:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, Rob Allaert <roballaert@mac.com> writes:
> Yeah great, they (AG) cancelled the ZornListGalaxy group on Audio Galaxy
> without a reason. Anyway.
Well *that* sucks. Oh well-you're all invited to join the Big Ugly Sharks group of which I'm dictator. We're more of a prog/punk group, but we love all things Zorn there too.
Juan Garcia Esquivel, celebrated pianist, composer, bandleader, stereo recording pioneer, and glamorous Space Age Bachelor Pad Music icon, died at his home in Jiutepec, Morelos, Mexico, on January 3, 2002. He was 83.
The death was reported by his widow, Carina Osorio vda. de Garcia, and by his son, Mario Eddi Garcia Servin, of Taxco. According to a longtime friend, Steve Reed, of Los Angeles, three months ago Esquivel suffered a stroke, which had left him paralyzed on one side and unable to speak. He recovered in a short time, but suffered a second, more severe stroke on Dec. 30. He died four days later.
Esquivel was born on January 20, 1918, in Tampico, Tamaulipas, Mexico. He was a renowned pianist/bandleader in his native country, garnering much acclaim on stage, television and radio. He starred in and scored two films, "Cabaret Tragico" and "La Locura de Rock'n'Roll," before being brought to the U.S. by RCA Victor Records in 1957. Working primarily in Hollywood, New York, and Las Vegas, the suave maestro recorded prolifically, led an explosive big band, and scored for several TV programs. His elegant, idiosyncratic, and very meticulous arrangements were colored by radical dynamic shifts, playful percussion, wordless vocals, and Esquivel's own virtuoso keyboard runs. When it came to recording sessions, he was notorious for budget-busting extravagance. His offstage life was filled with celebrity hobnobbing (e.g., Sinatra, Liberace, Ernie Kovacs), romantic intrigue (he embodied the charming Latin Lothario mystique), and unfortunate bouts of drinking and prescription drug abuse!
that eventually curtailed his success.
Many of Esquivel's saucy compositions, such as "Mucha Muchacha," "Whatchamacallit," "Latin-Esque," and "Mini Skirt," have come to symbolize the wild hyper-stereo orchestration of the 1950s and '60s. Ironically, his most familiar composition -- and one for which he is little known -- is the "Universal Emblem," a three-second blast of Wagnerian thunder which has for decades accompanied the Universal Studios logo at the conclusion of hundreds of television programs.
"Space Age Bachelor Pad Music," a 1994 Bar/None Records compilation of
Esquivel's 1950s-'60s RCA Victor recordings, sparked a resurgence of
interest in his work. Simpsons creator Matt Groening declared Esquivel "the great unsung genius of space age pop." Subsequent releases, such as "Music >From a Sparkling Planet" (1995, Bar/None), "Cabaret Ma±ana" (1996, BMG), and the 40-years-locked-in-the-can "See It In Sound" (1999, 7N), launched his vintage recordings into wide circulation on TV, in films and commercials, and as background music in restaurants, lounges, and stores. Several of his compositions have been used in the soundtracks of major Hollywood films, including "The Big Lebowski," "Four Rooms," and "Beavis and Butt-Head Do America." His riffs have been widely sampled and emulated by audio mixologists and turntable wizards worldwide.
The Kronos Quartet recently commissioned and performed a string arrangement of Esquivel's 1967 composition "Mini Skirt." The original handwritten scores for his 24-piece orchestra no longer exist, having reportedly been hauled away as trash years ago when rent was in arrears on a Las Vegas storage facility.
Though he was an American citizen, Esquivel moved back to Mexico in the 1980s. For the Televisa network, he composed soundtracks for a children's TV program, entitled "Burbujas" ("Bubbles"). He was inactive in the music business during the 1990s, due to a broken hip and an aggravated spinal injury which left him bedridden and unable to walk. He lived at the home of his older brother, Sergio, in Jiutepec, until Sergio's death in 1999. Esquivel then bought and moved to a home in Villas del Descanso, also in Jiutepec.
In May 2001, Esquivel married 25-year-old Carina Osorio, who had assisted the ailing legend as a home health care aide for several years. They were wed in a simple ceremony administered by a justice of the peace at Esquivel's home. Esquivel claimed that Carina was his sixth wife. He had married and divorced twice while residing in the United States. He described Carina as "a simple girl, who is attentive and honest," adding, "I am very happy, and she is too. We both stay up until 2:00 in the morning, and she helps me. Our house is not too big, not too small. Just for the two of us, it is nice. It has a nice garden."
A film biography about the Space Age Pop avatar is in script development at Fox studios, with John Leguizamo slated to star and Alexander Payne signed to direct.
Per his wishes, Esquivel's remains were cremated, and his ashes were
Wasn't Jesse Harris the guitarist who toured with Tony Levin's "Waters of Eden" band, playing the New Agey stuff from that disc but also riffing on Peter Gabriel, King Crimson and Jimi Hendrix? The name sounds right. Maybe you could find out more at Levin's website, www.papabear.com.
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
Fastian@aol.com wrote:
> Has anyone on this list heard of Jesse Harris or his band The Ferdinandos? I know they're from NY and have supposedly played the KF. The
other members of the band are Tony Scherr and Kenny Wolleson who I am
familiar with. They're playing quite a few west coast gigs next week. I was
thinking of taking a drive to San Gregorio to see them next Sunday afternoon.
Since Harris is listed as guitar and vocals, I was wondering if their music
was song oriented or more of a jazz improv kind of thing. Any help would be
You can find comprehensive listings at www.villagevoice.com or www.timeoutny.com (the latter one of my employers), or simply grab either publication at the local newsstand (the Voice is free, Time Out more comprehensive). You might also check out www.tonicnyc.com and www.knittingfactory.com.
> I'm looking forward to seeing more Erst fave lists, I know there's some more
> completists out there...
I guess I'm close to one of the completists, as soon as I get around to the two most recent ones so...
My favorite so far is Schnee. Simply beautiful, one of my favourite recordings of all time. Suitable for close listening or as background for reading.
Others that top my list are, in sort of order, World Turned Upside Down, La Voyelle Liquide, Tom and Gerry, Bits Bots and Signs, Aluminum, and Particles and Smears.
You may notice that this list is mostly (and most of) the 2001 releases. All but Tom and Gerry were 2000, I think, and of the 2000 releases just Bart and Requests and Antisongs isn't on the list. Bart isn't there because, as someone else already commented, I find it a bit too intense. Requests and Antisongs isn't there because a) I prefer Butcher non-processed, and b) that would have made my list too long!
As for the 2001 releases, I guess my favourite is Stullyps (whatever--it is in a different room)/TV Pow. The rest of them just didn't really grab me as much as some other things I heard this year. And I have to admit that, at this point, I don't get Toshimaru Nakamura. I find what he does intriguing, and I'm glad that Jon is putting this stuff out because I do believe there is great artistic value in what what Nakamura does, but it isn't for me. My copy of Do is filed and may never come off the shelf, my copy of Weather Sky is at a friend's house, and I have told him there is no hurry returning it.
As an aside, I did devote about an hour of a radio program to these two recordings, and got four phone calls (more than I've ever gotten about anything I've played in about 6 years of radio). The result: one positive (will buy), one semi-positive (found it interesting, but not enough to buy), the other two very negative (probably turned off their radios after failing to convince me to take it off.)
Anyway, keep up the good work Jon.
Dan
Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping!
Before I decide to sell or trade them, can anyone give me some insight on how to make sense of Joe Maneri? I have the Blessed and Tale Of Rhonlief CD's, and I'm pretty much baffled. Thanks! <BR>
In a message dated 1/11/2002 4:36:23 AM Eastern Standard Time,
velaires@earthlink.net writes:
> > In that Vancouver workshop Will was mentioning (what up, WY? didn't know
> if
> > you were still in SF), Berne basically said the key to good improvising
> was
> > a nice hotel room, some coffee and some other smart-ass remarks. He also
> > said that anyone who says he practices 8 hours a day is either lying or
> has
> > no way to communicate any ideas to the world at large.
>
> That's kind of a loaded, smart-ass statement, and I think it's
> irresponsible
> of someline like Tim to say that. There are a lot of fanatical pracitcers
> who communicate more than adequately (I'm thinkin' Uri Caine for starters).
> But the hotel room and the coffee ARE important.
> skip heller
> http://www.skipheller.com
I'm sure Tim was laughing when he said that, or at least laughing on the
inside. Maybe if you were actually there to hear it, you might have a better
formed opinion about his smart-assness. Geeez.... Thank god i'm not famous
and nobody talks about me on internet lists, or i might be the biggest
smart-ass in the world :-)
About his music --- i'm horrible at talking about/trying to describe music.
But -- I've probably seen Tim live more than anyone on this list, so heres
what i think. his writing and playing process is no different than any other
jazz musicians. It aint rocket science. Free part, written part, free
solos, written part. Although his free parts can be verrrry loose, and long,
and are obviously never the same each time played.... the musicians involved
(obviously) playing the biggest factor in how it sounds. And the written
parts are hopefully tighter than a mosquitos ass. I've never noticed much in
the way of direction, or cues, except for maybe a signal to go back into the
head. Like i said, not much different than other jazz guys.... except of
course his tunes sound like him, and his playing and soloing sounds like him.
Jody
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 1/11/2002 4:36:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, velaires@earthlink.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">> In that Vancouver workshop Will was mentioning (what up, WY? didn't know if<BR>
> you were still in SF), Berne basically said the key to good improvising was<BR>
> a nice hotel room, some coffee and some other smart-ass remarks. He also<BR>
> said that anyone who says he practices 8 hours a day is either lying or has<BR>
> no way to communicate any ideas to the world at large.<BR>
<BR>
That's kind of a loaded, smart-ass statement, and I think it's irresponsible<BR>
of someline like Tim to say that. There are a lot of fanatical pracitcers<BR>
who communicate more than adequately (I'm thinkin' Uri Caine for starters).<BR>
But the hotel room and the coffee ARE important.<BR>
skip heller<BR>
http://www.skipheller.com</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
I'm sure Tim was laughing when he said that, or at least laughing on the inside. Maybe if you were actually there to hear it, you might have a better formed opinion about his smart-assness. Geeez.... Thank god i'm not famous and nobody talks about me on internet lists, or i might be the biggest smart-ass in the world :-)<BR>
About his music --- i'm horrible at talking about/trying to describe music. But -- I've probably seen Tim live more than anyone on this list, so heres what i think. his writing and playing process is no different than any other jazz musicians. It aint rocket science. Free part, written part, free solos, written part. Although his free parts can be verrrry loose, and long, and are obviously never the same each time played.... the musicians involved (obviously) playing the biggest factor in how it sounds. And the written parts are hopefully tighter than a mosquitos ass. I've never noticed much in the way of direction, or cues, except for maybe a signal to go back into the head. Like i said, not much different than other jazz guys.... except of course his tunes sound like him, and his playing and soloing sounds like him.<BR>
> Who has seen Giuseppi Ielasi and Domenico Sciajno
> live, recently? I'm curious what kind of gear and
> techiques they were (or seemed) to be using...
i saw giuseppi and domenico last night. domenico plays laptop and a small homemade tone generator. giuseppi plays prepared tabletop guitar and cds. there were a few other misc electronics on the table that they were using. it was a very nice set. good mix of digital and organic sounds.
if anyone is in the boston area they are playing a free show tonight at twisted village in cambridge. it will be a quartet with boston's nmperign.
they are also playing tomorrow night at hampshire college along with greg kelley/jason lescalleet duo and vic rawlings/howard stelzer/jason talbot trio.
Subject: Re: Ayler's new grass, Was: Re: coltrane/impulse!
Date: 16 Jan 2002 16:46:07 EST
<r.takken@planet.nl> writes:
I just love Ayler as weird soul hippie, and also his earlier gospel
> outings (on Black Lion).
I just got 'Goin' Home' on Black Lion and the title track is one of the most beautiful recordings these ears have ever heard. I was driving home from work when I first put it on and almost pulled over, I was so taken with the wonder of the music. The rest of the album is pretty good too.
This was the first Ayler album I ever heard (it was a cut-out) so you can imagine my head-scratching response. I even listened to it again a couple of years ago hoping it might be some neglected masterpiece or something but it still just sounds odd.
Another question for the list. The various artist compilation on rastacan records "Yearbook Vol.2" contains a piece by John Zorn Ensemble. Has this piece been released before on something else?
Satoko is bringing her Japanese Quartet with Tatsuya in late spring early summer. So far I know of dates in NYC, Philly (painted bride) Houston, Austin, and San Diego (spruce street forum)....
I will post an itinerary when it is all confirmed
She will perform a duo with Tatsuya at Victoriaville.....
hi --
yeah, absolutely, fuji is a phenom, and 'vulcan' is far from one of her
best. tatsuya, unsurprisingly, plays loud, although not completely drowning
out everyone else, and it's fun to hear him in a jazz context.
as was mentioned, the dresser/black trio is quite good. but easily her best
stuff is the big band records, specifically the east/west double cd. she is
right up there with william parker in bringing the big band into the present
day.
agreed, too, that she should be more recognized in the states than she is,
although spending more time here would surely help (she lived here when she
attended the new england conservatory and studied under paul bley, as i
understand, but now spends her time back in japan, and seems to play here
I think MELTDOWN is the cd of the year. Laswell navigates between dub lines and those scary envelope filter sounds. I once told that him that I thought his bass sounded like rolling thunder and he said that is precisely what he tries to achieve. For some reason I never get bored of Laswell's dub style. It's all about the groove and not the notes. On the other hand he usually breaks it up with his "free" runs and harmonics. Hayward definitely performs some vocals on one but if you listen closely, it sounds like they were drained out of the mix. I have other live shows and he screaming right into the mic.
I actually really like the quirky cover art for 'Everybodys Mouth's a Book.' It's fun and very different than most else out there. Well, to each his own...
jeff
JonAbbey2@aol.com writes:
> on a separate note, the new ones may very well be good (I liked the first
> track on Up Popped...), but damn, is the packaging ugly.
<P>right now i am listening to coltrane live in seattle. i am not halfway through the first disc, but so far i am enjoying it immensely. </P>
<P> in Eric Nisenson's book on Coltrane: "Ascension" he says that in this period Coltrane was undergoing some major Stravinsky influence. i can actually hear it on certain parts. very interesting. Nisenson says that coltrane had found in Stravinsky some quite universal melodies. </P>
<P> i must say the free period coltrane sounds nice in it's moments touched with stravinsky. </P>
<P> it's the opinion of nisenson and also a friend of mine that this concert is not a particularly strong one. i was curious about other people's opinions.</P>
<P> thanks,</P>
<P> -samuel<BR><BR><BR></P>
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Satoko Fujii with Mark Feldman - April Shower (Buzz) Feb 5
She'll be at the painted bride in philadelphia on April 27th on a double
bill with the Cuong Ve Ensemble.
Alan Lankin
--
Jazzmatazz
http://jazzmatazz.home.att.net
lankina@att.net
pedro moreno wrote:
> FYI.
> Satoko is bringing her Japanese Quartet with Tatsuya in late spring early summer. So far I know of dates in NYC, Philly (painted bride) Houston, Austin, and San Diego (spruce street forum)....
>
> I will post an itinerary when it is all confirmed
>
> She will perform a duo with Tatsuya at Victoriaville.....
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Well, fuck it, so much for the diplomatic approach. I hear it as sloppy and <BR>
out of tune and melodic and unpredictable and a lot more inspiring than most <BR>
stuff that is played with more conventionally better technique. Then again, <BR>
a lot of stuff I like is often out of tune and sloppy </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c0c0c0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BR>
I have to agree with this...otherwise, Kenny G would be some kind of ideal?<BR>
Subject: Re: free jazz (was spontaneous performance/composition)
Date: 22 Jan 2002 03:40:30 EST
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In a message dated 1/22/02 2:39:41 AM Central Standard Time,
bashline@hotmail.com writes:
> >Well, if you don't like rhythm'n'blues, you're not going to like GW's
> >material.
>
> Pretty reductive. I like rhythm and blues and don't care for Grover
> Washington.
you know what i like? pomegranates. you know what i don't like? zucchini.
>
>
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 1/22/02 2:39:41 AM Central Standard Time, bashline@hotmail.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">>Well, if you don't like rhythm'n'blues, you're not going to like GW's<BR>
>material.<BR>
<BR>
Pretty reductive. I like rhythm and blues and don't care for Grover <BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">you know what i like? pomegranates. you know what i don't like? zucchini.<BR>
One of my professors who's really into Ornette told me once that Harmolodics at its simplest is more or less just improvised counterpoint. If you think about it, you have one line (probably a horn) and another line (probably a bass line) interacting to create harmonies that drive the piece. I know that it is only about 1/10th of the whole sha-bang, but at least its a place to start.
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">One of my professors who's really into Ornette told me once that Harmolodics at its simplest is more or less just improvised counterpoint. If you think about it, you have one line (probably a horn) and another line (probably a bass line) interacting to create harmonies that drive the piece. I know that it is only about 1/10th of the whole sha-bang, but at least its a place to start.<BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE>OK, I'll offer my simplistic, unresearched, 2-cent take on how I've been listening to Ornette. In "traditional" jazz improvisation, the players generally improvise vertically, based on the chord progression. What I seem to hear in Ornette's harmolodic improvising style, is/are the player(s) improvising horizontally, on the melodic line - regardless of how it relates to the key or chord progression. Does this make sense to anyone else, or have I completely missed the boat and fallen off the dock?<BR>
<BR>
Dale.<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c0c0c0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BR>
Subject: A few recent topics and a question for non-musicians.
Date: 22 Jan 2002 20:00:18 EST
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Hello all,
I'd first like to thank Mr. Rizzi for all he's done and I'm for anything that
will make his life easier.
First I'd like to comment on the Sonny Clark album. I really love a lot of
the playing on this album. It took me a while to get into it because I was
expecting (this was my first error) an album more like the News for Lulu
stuff. While the Clark album is more conservative it has some very wonderful
soloing (particularly in Nicely).
I'd also like to put in my short two cents on the Indian Music and suggest
the Kronos Quartet's Short Stories album. This has one of the few easily
available recordings of the singer Prandit Pran Nath who taught Composers
Terry Riley and La Monte Young and the phenomenal author Walter Mathieu (The
Harmonic Experience is one of the greatest books ever written on Harmony and
intonation). The piece is only 11 minutes but the singing is well worth it.
Finally for all the non-musician what is it that attracts you to the
avant-garde music? Are there any pieces/albums/composers that you remember
to be your starting point? What makes something "sound good" to you? Is
there anything you wish more musicians would do or anything we should stop
doing? Any answers would help. I sometimes feel trapped being a musician
since my ears have a certain knowledge and vocabulary ingrained (though
there's a lot I don't know/understand).
Thanks to all,
Aaron Solomon
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><BODY BGCOLOR="#ffffff"><FONT SIZE=2>Hello all,
<BR>I'd first like to thank Mr. Rizzi for all he's done and I'm for anything that will make his life easier.
<BR>First I'd like to comment on the Sonny Clark album. I really love a lot of the playing on this album. It took me a while to get into it because I was expecting (this was my first error) an album more like the News for Lulu stuff. While the Clark album is more conservative it has some very wonderful soloing (particularly in Nicely).
<BR>I'd also like to put in my short two cents on the Indian Music and suggest the Kronos Quartet's Short Stories album. This has one of the few easily available recordings of the singer Prandit Pran Nath who taught Composers Terry Riley and La Monte Young and the phenomenal author Walter Mathieu (The Harmonic Experience is one of the greatest books ever written on Harmony and intonation). The piece is only 11 minutes but the singing is well worth it.
<BR>Finally for all the non-musician what is it that attracts you to the avant-garde music? Are there any pieces/albums/composers that you remember to be your starting point? What makes something "sound good" to you? Is there anything you wish more musicians would do or anything we should stop doing? Any answers would help. I sometimes feel trapped being a musician since my ears have a certain knowledge and vocabulary ingrained (though there's a lot I don't know/understand).
> Gee, that's elitist, isn't it? Could an unfunny comedian get away with that
> - -- "You don't do stand-up? Oh, then you'll never know how funny I am."
i thought that was a good analogy until i thought about it. you may think
hes funny but youll never know what its like to be a standup, the skills
required to speak loud and clearly and be an animated character. .whatever it
is stand ups do. .."you dont do stand up? then you cant appreciate what it
is i do as much as someone who does" or. with less words. musicians relate
to musicians more than a non musician.
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<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Gee, that's elitist, isn't it? Could an unfunny comedian get away with that
<BR>- -- "You don't do stand-up? Oh, then you'll never know how funny I am."</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0"></BLOCKQUOTE>
<BR> i thought that was a good analogy until i thought about it. you may think hes funny but youll never know what its like to be a standup, the skills required to speak loud and clearly and be an animated character. .whatever it is stand ups do. .."you dont do stand up? then you cant appreciate what it is i do as much as someone who does" or. with less words. musicians relate to musicians more than a non musician.
In a message dated 1/22/02 4:40:35 AM Eastern Standard Time,
owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes:
> > >Well, if you don't like rhythm'n'blues, you're not going to like GW's
> > >material.
> >
> > Pretty reductive. I like rhythm and blues and don't care for Grover
> > Washington.
>
> you know what i like? pomegranates. you know what i don't like? zucchini.
>
i disagree with this. completley. theres no way. absolutley no way
pomegranates are better than zucchini. i bet you. id swear by it.
yes.! zucchini, especially zucchini,fried .check it out
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 1/22/02 4:40:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes:
<BR>
<BR>
<BR><BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">> >Well, if you don't like rhythm'n'blues, you're not going to like GW's
<BR>> >material.
<BR>>
<BR>> Pretty reductive. I like rhythm and blues and don't care for Grover
<BR>> Washington.
<BR>
<BR>you know what i like? pomegranates. you know what i don't like? zucchini.
<BR>i disagree with this. completley. theres no way. absolutley no way pomegranates are better than zucchini. i bet you. id swear by it. yes.! zucchini, especially zucchini,fried .check it out</FONT></HTML>
I like pretty much all their work, and the re-recorded compilation called The
Mix should give you a good indication of thier material.
Dale.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c0c0c0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">I like pretty much all their work, and the re-recorded compilation called The Mix should give you a good indication of thier material.<BR>
I look at the tangelo as the "bad sister" of the citrus family. She's fooled
around with "designer genetics" much more so than her older sisters--no doubt
from the influence of wayward science boys. While her other sisters may have
once looked down upon their sister's judgement, there is no doubt that such
youthful excursions and a few broken hearts have given the tangelo a presence
worth her pain. Next to her sisters she draws the attention, "Who is that?"
as well as the propositions, "May I have a bite?"
I, however, enjoy most her promiscuity. With her easy-to-peel skin, she is
much more eager to take her clothes off. If she is in the room, I will pass
by both her sisters--voluptuous orange, and petite tangerine--and focus my
attention and my lips on her.
In a message dated 1/24/02 11:10:01 AM, UFOrbK8@aol.com writes:
<< do any of the rest of you like tangelos? i love their texture and that
juicy
feeling when i bite into one. not quite orange, not quite tangerine...
[a pensive moment passes us all by.]
k8 >>
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do any of the rest of you like tangelos? i love their texture and that juicy
feeling when i bite into one. not quite orange, not quite tangerine...
<< speaking of ralf and florian -- one word kids: Neu. >>
thanks for the tip, Mom. some of us are actually familiar with them already.
thanks for the tip, Jon, but some people on the list (such as myself) are just discovering certain musics and maybe would have appreciated the tip. so next time you want to insult me, do it privately, or better yet, do it via IM where i can retort to you realtime without you sounding like a total cock on the list.
you'd do well to do a bit more reading here and a bit less posting, in my
rarely humble opinion.
last time i checked, listservs are for whomever to post whatever whenever, senza censorship. if you have such a problem with my posts, then delete them prior to reading them.
<<n.r. - Experimental Music, by Michael Nyman (new edition by Brian Eno :)>>
it's not a new edition. there's a three page forward by Eno, and zero
updating of Nyman's text, automatically making it seem as if experimental
music came to a crashing halt in 1974. I can't say I've ever found this book
of more than mildly historical interest, but maybe it was more important at
the time.
if you had bothered to ask in lieu of automatically assuming my status of moron, i would have readily said that nyman chose to not update any of the information in the book. i said the new edition. i didn't say updated. pay attention! i think the book is still very important, minus its total lack of experimental computer music (not applicable at the time) and female composer content (something you probably wouldn't know anything about, being a male chauvinist pig).
i posted this publicly because i do not appreciate being insulted publicly, and will readily return the favour if someone deems it necessary to do so.
my Kraftwerk suggestion is Organization-Tone Float, Ralf and Florian's first
appearance on record, a more rockish record with a quintet from 1970, just
before the three Kurt mentioned, all of which are also quite good. the first
Tangerine Dream record, Electronic Meditation, is also recommended,
surprisingly wild.
thanks for the information, Dad. some of us know about this record too.
Yes, the Cobra has sadly been pushed back. I picked up Susie Ibarra's new
one, "Songbird Suite", on tuesday. I'm really digging it- it's about 50/50
dark droning stuff in the vein of her earlier "flower after flower" (playing
the kulingtang, chimes, etc.), and really nice stuff with her on the trap
kit and jen choi and craig taborn just going nuts.
borders is still listing the 1/22 release date for cobra... so i might be wrong (duck) but they said i would have it by the end of the week... i guess we'll see and i'll let anyone who cares know.
Subject: Re: why doesn't Tzadik hook up college/independent radio?
Date: 25 Jan 2002 15:31:48 -0500
>bother supplicating Tzadik for records...apparently, they could care >less about hooking up radio stations, or even offering a discounted
Well why should they? As this post shows, DJs/MDs, critics and other biz types think they're offering such a great public service that labels should fall over themselves to give out records. Tzadik has made a decision that they won't supply promos on the level that other labels do, something that has nothing to do with whether they "care." In essence, Tzadik is saying they're here to support the music and musicians and anybody seriously interested can do the same. Any critic or station who wants to review or play the records isn't prevented from doing so.
Actually I'm almost certain that Tzadik does send promos to a very small number of radio stations such as WFMU and WREK but these are stations with long and dedicated commitments to non-commercial music. And I'm sure there are people here that know more about it than me but I also have been told that many Tzadik artists do their own publicity/promotions.
Subject: Re: why doesn't Tzadik hook up college/independent radio?
Date: 25 Jan 2002 17:01:23 -0800 (PST)
Tzadik originally had a "no promos for the press" policy.
Remember John doesn't have a reputation for liking the
press.
After some discussion, specifically that some community
radio stations maintain excellent archives of independent
music, then a very small list of 10 stations was made,
and quickly expanded to 15. As far as I know, it has
hardly changed over the years. Though I do know that
when KPFA lost their forward looking Music Director
and became lame with their library they were dropped.
Whether someone was added to fill their spot, I do
not know, so it might be worth petitioning for promos,
but it will be a VERY hard sell.
As I recall the original station list included WFMU,
WREK, WMBR, KTRU, a Chicago station, KPFA, and KALX.
I'm pretty sure WZBC also.
mike
>Actually I'm almost certain that Tzadik does send promos to a very small number of radio stations such as WFMU and WREK but these are stations with long and dedicated commitments to non-commercial music. And I'm sure there are people here that know more about it than me but I also have been told that many Tzadik artists do their own publicity/promotions.
Subject: Re: why doesn't Tzadik hook up college/independent radio?
Date: 25 Jan 2002 15:54:06 -0500
Tzadik may not be "hurting too bad" in the financial department, as you say - but then, you may not be aware that the label is a non-profit organization, and that all label profits after recouping are turned towards giving more artists a chance to have a record out. One disc selling in vast numbers, like Mike Patton, can fund a great many recording of Alvin Singleton or Jon.
That's the simple, factual answer. The more complicated answer is that Tzadik does, in fact, service about 12 stations that have supported his work since the very beginning of his career. Sending out more free product doesn't fit the label's financial model - and of course, review CDs are absolutely forbidden. But Zorn does, in fact, supply artists with copies of their own recordings to do with as they please, and many of them take PR and radio promo into their own hands (says someone who unexpectedly just received the new Singleton straight from the composer).
Tzadik releases are available at a radio discount via the distributor, Koch International (I used to help a fellow current Z-lister do just that when I worked there some years ago), but good luck working your way through their arcane chutes and ladders. You're better off doing what I've heard any number of other radio people say they've done: go sell 3-5 shitty CDs and buy the stuff you say you really want with the proceeds.
The entire thing is a function of Zorn's record-industry worldview, and we either deal with it or we don't.
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<P class=MsoNormal>Drums, trumpet and dance, alone, in pairs and all together. A round robin of free expression, warming up a winter night.<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:P></O:P></P>
<P class=MsoNormal>Barker is a welcome addition to the New York music scene, relocating here from Atlanta with the Gold Sparkle Band a few years ago to carve his own niche, playing with William Parker's Little Huey Creative Music Orchestra and making regular appearances at the Jump Festival. Roy Campbell, one of the greats of New York Ecstatic Jazz, is a member of the long-lived collective Other Dimensions in Music and leads the Pyramid Trio. Maria Mitchell is a powerful dancer with a close connection to free jazz, and has appeared regularly at the Vision Festival of music and art.<O:P></O:P></P>
Subject: re: college groups assembling avant-garde stuff. (AKA - a post with content.)
Date: 26 Jan 2002 19:44:38 EST
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In a message dated 1/26/02 5:06:09 PM Central Standard Time,
parksplace@hotmail.com writes:
> Are there groups in existence, either on college campuses or elsewhere,
> that seek to bring people together who share an interest in the
> avant-garde, in all it's various mediums? To hook up people for
> collaborations and organize concerts, exhibits, performances, etc. I'm
> trying to organize something of this nature in my area, Indianapolis.
> Does any one have an ideas on promoting (getting the word out) this
> concept?
yo -- oberlin definitely made a move towards this when they instilled the
emerging arts program. the conservatory and college have been working hard
to get avant garde type artist people on campus as of late (kaffe matthews,
pamela z, karen findlay, to name a few). you are going to need to start with
an established group, whether it is a faculty group who has the financial and
connective resources to get you set up, or like the independent film club or
something. someone with a budget. you can start with events showcasing this
stuff (the indie film club at oberlin has shown stuff like the andy warhol
movies, etc. etc.), then coerce, convince, or otherwise connive faculty and
the likes into funding bringing people in.
there is also the rare chance that you can email someone randomly and say
'hey, there are 20 kids here who want to talk to you - we can't pay you but
could you show up or are you going to be around?' -- this sometimes works if
lesser-knowns are playing gigs around the area. you can sometimes get 'em to
stop in for a lecture or something. another thing you might want to try is
an email forum with people (we had newmusic@oberlin.edu, for example), and
occasionally get together questions for J Random Important Person, then email
them off to JRIP, and JRIP will answer and you can post to your forum.
aim for liberal faculty first. the school is the place with the $$$... and
almost everyone wants the $$$ for something or other...
love,
k8.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 1/26/02 5:06:09 PM Central Standard Time, parksplace@hotmail.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Are there groups in existence, either on college campuses or elsewhere,<BR>
that seek to bring people together who share an interest in the<BR>
avant-garde, in all it's various mediums? To hook up people for<BR>
collaborations and organize concerts, exhibits, performances, etc. I'm<BR>
trying to organize something of this nature in my area, Indianapolis.<BR>
Does any one have an ideas on promoting (getting the word out) this<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">yo -- oberlin definitely made a move towards this when they instilled the emerging arts program. the conservatory and college have been working hard to get avant garde type artist people on campus as of late (kaffe matthews, pamela z, karen findlay, to name a few). you are going to need to start with an established group, whether it is a faculty group who has the financial and connective resources to get you set up, or like the independent film club or something. someone with a budget. you can start with events showcasing this stuff (the indie film club at oberlin has shown stuff like the andy warhol movies, etc. etc.), then coerce, convince, or otherwise connive faculty and the likes into funding bringing people in. <BR>
<BR>
there is also the rare chance that you can email someone randomly and say 'hey, there are 20 kids here who want to talk to you - we can't pay you but could you show up or are you going to be around?' -- this sometimes works if lesser-knowns are playing gigs around the area. you can sometimes get 'em to stop in for a lecture or something. another thing you might want to try is an email forum with people (we had newmusic@oberlin.edu, for example), and occasionally get together questions for J Random Important Person, then email them off to JRIP, and JRIP will answer and you can post to your forum.<BR>
<BR>
aim for liberal faculty first. the school is the place with the $$$... and almost everyone wants the $$$ for something or other...<BR>
In a message dated 1/26/02 7:11:41 PM Central Standard Time,
jeton@hotmail.com writes:
> reaction whatsoever on this list could possibly constitute NOTORIETY. More
> self-importance from someone claiming to decry it. Bite the poison apple,
> baby, and don't ferget to do Efren's homework while you're at it! Mebbe
> you'll both find something better to do, like buy some of Jonny's
> records........... "'Typical!'"
i prefer to bite the poison tangelo. ;)
love,
k8.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 1/26/02 7:11:41 PM Central Standard Time, jeton@hotmail.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">reaction whatsoever on this list could possibly constitute NOTORIETY. More <BR>
self-importance from someone claiming to decry it. Bite the poison apple, <BR>
baby, and don't ferget to do Efren's homework while you're at it! Mebbe <BR>
you'll both find something better to do, like buy some of Jonny's <BR>
In a message dated Mon, 28 Jan 2002 3:03:32 PM Eastern Standard Time, Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net> writes:
>
>
> > From: UFOrbK8@aol.com
>
> >i think that free jazz is a crappy name for stuff
>
> I always thought so too. "Free jazz" has as many behavioral norms built
> into its standards and practices as be-bop. And you'll reflect that, at its
> outset, be-bop was the music of liberation. I prefer the term Joey Baron
> uses -- "non-symmetrical music".
I've always preferred "creative improvisational music", a term I first saw in Cadence, and coined by someone to which I can't directly point fingers at.
--
np: Chicago Underground Quartet- live from some club in Chicago...can't remember where...
This list is really going down... Now I understand why Godel would be sorry.
Patrice.
..damned if i don't. shot down for non-intellectual content, shot down for hyper-intellectual content. how, in my late-capitalist postmodernist avant-gardist little world can i ever strike a balance?! <insert method acting pose here, with german expressionist background and perhaps a top 40 song playing in the background>
[this post to me feels like a roy lichtenstein painting - one in the "OH, BRAD!" series.]
i studied with JLA at oberlin for quite some time... i can pretty much tell you everything you want to know about him and his music... except specific instrumentations. i was involved with technical aspects of strange and sacred noise and in the white silence both, and i can tell you that strange and sacred noise is a pain in the ass to set up and deal with spatially. email me off list for more details...
John Luther Adams has a well-designed and informative website at
www.johnlutheradams.com, which seems to have details about most of his
works. Strange and Sacred Noise is scored for a percussion quartet, though
the exact disposition of the instruments is not detailed. It is due to be
released on Mode in fall, performed by Percussion Group Cincinnati
i was at the precursors to this recording. you can contact alan otte at Cincinnati Conservatory of Music for information about it - i think he's the head of the perc. dept. down there, and he's the lead player on this recording. he's an asshole, but he might be helpful.
In a message dated 1/28/02 6:46:42 PM Central Standard Time,
proussel@ichips.intel.com writes:
> > This list is really going down... Now I understand why Godel would be
> sorry.
> > Patrice.
> >
> > ..damned if i don't. shot down for non-intellectual content, shot down
> for
> > hyper-intellectual content. how, in my late-capitalist postmodernist
> avant-
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> If sprinkling out of context big names is what you consider
> "hyper-intellectual
> content", why not after all. Everybody is entitled to the fun they can
> muster,
> I guess. That might even make a strong impression at tea party.
>
> Patrice.
if you were paying any attention at all, you would have noticed that *gasp*
there was content and context for my "sprinkling...big names". i was talking
about a piece i was working on. an avant-garde piece. an experimental
piece! oh see how we can bring the topic back around... children children,
gather round the circle, it seems like it is time for a round of kum-bay-a...
<whips out acoustic guitar> can i talk about folk music? and drop some
names everyone knows and probably everyone on this listserv detests? if so,
i propose that we talk about the influence of the song "this land is your
land" on the later music of one john zorn. anyone remember who john zorn is?
[peers out into 698 blank stares, since this list has been content free for
so many days now...]
:)
xo
love,
k8.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 1/28/02 6:46:42 PM Central Standard Time, proussel@ichips.intel.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">> This list is really going down... Now I understand why Godel would be sorry. <BR>
> Patrice.<BR>
> <BR>
> ..damned if i don't. shot down for non-intellectual content, shot down for<BR>
> hyper-intellectual content. how, in my late-capitalist postmodernist avant-<BR>
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^<BR>
<BR>
If sprinkling out of context big names is what you consider "hyper-intellectual<BR>
content", why not after all. Everybody is entitled to the fun they can muster,<BR>
I guess. That might even make a strong impression at tea party.<BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">if you were paying any attention at all, you would have noticed that *gasp* there was content and context for my "sprinkling...big names". i was talking about a piece i was working on. an avant-garde piece. an experimental piece! oh see how we can bring the topic back around... children children, gather round the circle, it seems like it is time for a round of kum-bay-a... <whips out acoustic guitar> can i talk about folk music? and drop some names everyone knows and probably everyone on this listserv detests? if so, i propose that we talk about the influence of the song "this land is your land" on the later music of one john zorn. anyone remember who john zorn is? <BR>
<BR>
[peers out into 698 blank stares, since this list has been content free for so many days now...]<BR>
> >Is anyone here familiar with the work of David Vorhaus, perhaps better
> >known as White Noise? What does it sound like? Any
> >recommendations for an album to start with?
>
> Start and end with White Noise - An Electric Storm, the first album released
> under that moniker in 1970(?), spooky high voltage proto-industrial
> electronic textures, Dr. Who meets Stockhausen at Lucifer's Black Mass, with
> some rock'n'roll sensibility stirred in. The second album (White Noise 2)
> was more melodic ala Clearlight, later AshRa not too engaging as I remember
> it. Also the first one is around on CD, definitely a classic of sorts...
Gotta say I didn't find a whole lot worthwhile on the first White Noise album. I think maybe my problem was that I bought it because it had Paul Lytton listed as percussionist. Not really a standout moment for Lytton -- something the equivalent of buying Sonic Boom/EAR (or something like that) because Eddie Prevost was on it.
Dan
Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping!
I m just looking for some live session of bar kokhba... And i read =
on the unofficial masada site that there were some west cost shows of
masada.... Where i can find some records of them ???
Remco Takken replied:
Two 1998 tapes of Radio shows exist, from Dutch Radio 4: two sets from one show. I believe it was either in the Sju-huis Utrecht, or the Bimhuis, Amsterdam. Zorn was there, but didn't play. I recall it was much more busy (more people playing at once) than the first Bar Kokhba disc.
And I add:
There's a recording of Bar Kokhba from the Barbican, London 2000 that originally was broadcast on BBC Radio 3. I'm not near it at present, but IIRC the line up was Ribot, Baron, Baptista, Cohen, Feldman, Friedlander. Zorn directed crouched down in front of the stage. They also broadcast most of the Masada set from that night, but not the String Trio stuff (anyone?).
Again, I'm not near it, but there's a West Coast Masada recording from Germany with a line up of JZ/Chris Speed/Ben Perowsky/Dougie Bowne. Speed's clarinet is no match for DD's trumpet, but it's an interesting listen.
Alastair
----------
Get a free, personalised email address at http://another.com
Fine little summary of spectralism, something I'm still trying to come to terms with myself. I could just *spit* that I missed a performance of works by Grisey, Claude Vivier and Ivan Fedele (that last one I've not heard of) last night here in NYC - I'd thought that it would give me greater insight into a style of music that would seem to have a greater impact live than on disc. Radalescu aside, there aren't very many discs of most of this stuff, anyway (though I've read great things about a new Grisey disc on the Kairos label).
However, I will say that an orchestral work I heard by Murail late last year was staggering. Reportedly a musical realization of a complex computerized interpretation of a photo of the ocean (!), the music did indeed sound like a 21st century 'La Mer' - not a bad thing in my book.
Sure the record is Beatlesque, but am I wrong in hearing the piano solo in
"Yes Yes Yes" from NRBQ's "Yankee Stadium" record as a Thelonius Monk
imitation?
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT COLOR="#0000a0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SERIF" FACE="Lucida Fax" LANG="0">Sure the record is Beatlesque, but am I wrong in hearing the piano solo in "Yes Yes Yes" from NRBQ's "Yankee Stadium" record as a Thelonius Monk imitation? </FONT></HTML>
I have heard bits of the new Curlew album, "Meet the Curlews" and it sounds quite promising. Wayside Music is offering the Live disc, "Live in Berlin" for $4. Including Tom Cora and Wayne Horvitz. A great band!
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #ffffff" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">or talking about music is like dancing about architecture... ;)<BR>
Fascinating that all of this experimental rap conversation hits my screen the same day I learn of an upcoming collaboration between Cannibal Ox and Isotope 217, at Symphony Space here in NYC on May 16, part of a three-day NYC+Chicago thing. (Previous night is John McIntire/Ikue Mori/Zeena Parkins, next night is Fred Anderson/Marc Ribot/Chad Taylor...)
I'd like to be able to recommend the Hip Hop Hoodios, a new Latin/Jewish hip hop act from Brooklyn featuring a former bass player from the band Caifanes... I'd like to, that is, except that the music ended up being pretty perfunctory and the lyrics were along the lines of, "You like our dicks / And you like our noses..." (from "Dicks & Noses," of course... other titles include "Havana Nagila" and "Kike on the Mic"). You'll no doubt be reading about them elsewhere, soon... everyone loves a gimmick for a minute or two.
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
NP - Diabolic, "Darken the Imagination," 'Vengeance Ascending' (Olympic)
> im not too sure about this at all...but ive heard people talk about >bands that were "punk jazz/jazz punk" as if there was an actual >genre for it...if so..what are some good bands that fall into
There was an attempt in the early 80s to use this as a marketing phrase for Blood Ulmer, Shannon Jackson and maybe a few others so they could cross-over to the rock fans. I don't know if the phrase worked but these people did get rock press attention at the time (& I used to play them constantly on my radio show in the wilds of Alabama).
Since then I haven't heard the phrase much but stuff that might fit would be Naked City, The Ex w/Cora, Last Exit, etc. Apparently Blind Idiot God (and maybe other late SST bands?) might qualify but I've never heard them.
> I never thought that dancing about architecture was all that >unlikely or difficult to imagine.
Yes, it makes sense to use one form about space to comment on another. This must be one of those phrases that sounds good until you examine it, sort of like "comparing apples to oranges" (which of course is something most of us do quite often; didn't Orwell say something like we should use "comparing a rose to a wrench" because those have completely different functions).
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Since then I haven't heard the phrase much but stuff that might fit would be Naked City, The Ex w/Cora, Last Exit, etc. Apparently Blind Idiot God (and maybe other late SST bands?) might qualify but I've never heard them. <BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE>True....I was introduced to the Minutemen this was exactly. <BR>
<BR>
Dale.<BR>
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In a message dated 1/28/02 8:27:45 PM Eastern Standard Time,
owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes:
> Efren,
>
> I claim no responsibility for either Jon's reactions to K8 or Steve's
> reaction to me, I expressed regret for both (I laffed at Jon leaving and
> now
> I feel bad. I felt bad about Steve's threat to leave and now (yes!) am
> having a good laff at his expense..). I suggested to you that WE
> (*mutually*) not tank-out the list with our hostilities, which you refuse
> to
> do. Rest assured you can jockey for some sense of 'victory' all you like,
> but I suggest u create a private listserv where I can come in and
> excoriate/insult/deconstruct you a googleplex ways to Sunday, because the
> kid-gloves have been chafing me for awhile now. It would be a shame to
> troll
> the list out, I've seen a few torpedoed and have done it once or twice
> myself, far more severely than anything here, that's why I indulge you. But
> I can see your set on some pathetic victory, and your own psych profile has
> remained consistent in your posts, so disliking you, your manifold
> hypocrisies and your silliness is an easy call. But if you claim to not
> wanna stress the list then you share responsibility for any further
> interaction between us, because your fingers are now more deeply in the pie
> than mine are. Your call, tough guy.
>
> Of course, when I commented that it's sad to watch a list slide down a
> clear
> existential spectrum, from discussing 'trolling' to manifesting it, other
> people came in for their pound of flesh. As if I'm not going to rebut *each
> and every person in detail*, as is my habit. That's particularly why Steve
> surprised me, his post openly begged for a rebuttal ("...have a good laff
> at
> my expense now...") that could only be a furtherance of the process of
> alienation all around. What's up with that? Fine, let chips fall wherever,
> but I think some people have not been clear on their own motivations for
> posting to this thread...
>
> Lastly, I find it telling that in all the hubub re: non-avantmusic-content,
> no one commented about the Zorn/NY Art Quartet rumour. Even if one is mad
> at
> me, I would think that's a *highly* intersting tidbit to discuss *amongst
> yourselves*. Clearly, though, despite (AGAIN!!!) every indulgent
> hypocritical snobby defensive assertion to the contrary, some posters here
> display their priorities through their actions.....
>
> Giving back what I get, As Always,
> Jeton Ademaj
>
>
Im new to this Zorn list. I think you were only talking to one person, but
you sent it for 700 of us to read it. So Email him and him only, no one else
wants to hear your ..rhetoric or crap or point of view . unless it has to do
with Zorn/music. Sheesh your letter annoys a lot of people. Your closing
statement of 'getting back what i get' was really really bad...
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>In a message dated 1/28/02 8:27:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes:
<BR></FONT><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=4 FAMILY="SANSSERIF" FACE="Arial" LANG="0">Im new to this Zorn list. I think you were only talking to one person, but you sent it for 700 of us to read it. So Email him and him only, no one else wants to hear your ..rhetoric or crap or point of view . unless it has to do with Zorn/music. Sheesh your letter annoys a lot of people. Your closing statement of 'getting back what i get' was really really bad...</FONT></HTML>
In a message dated Wed, 30 Jan 2002 8:18:20 PM Eastern Standard Time, "thomas chatterton" <chatterton23@hotmail.com> writes:
> >From: UFOrbK8@aol.com
>
> > > ). Talking about musical theory is like phone sex...
> >
> >
> >or talking about music is like dancing about architecture... ;)
>
> Thanks to Xenakis we can listen to architecture, never really tried dancing
> to his music, although anything's possible (in theory!)
>
Add too, electronic musician Tetsu Inoue, who coded a program that turns blueprints into music, documented on his album _Waterloo Terminal_, part of the Caipirinha label's Architettura Series.
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I remember Weather Report having a song called "Jazz Punk" as early as 1977. <BR>
It was total crap, like the rest of their stuff though.<BR>
<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c0c0c0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">That was Punk Jazz, a Jaco Pastorius song, and by no means total crap, nor was any of the rest of their material.<BR>
Subject: Re: Re: Wreckers of Civilization (long-ish)
Date: 31 Jan 2002 09:54:20 -0500
>space. Had the same amount of text been laid out in a
>"regular" manner the book would probably have been
>about 40% shorter, and, one presumes, 40% cheaper
More likely causes of the price are a low print run and the large number of illustrations. Thanks for the detailed info on the book; that's just what I was looking for. Now I wonder if my library will think I'm a freak if I do an inter-library loan....
Speaking of SST and jazz-punk, Greg Ginn's trio GONE, the group that opened
for Black Flag on one of their final tours, was pretty darn jazzy,
incorporating extended jams and improvisations. Many think that Ginn
disbanded Black Flag so he could spend more time playing instrumental
jazz/punk/rock. He was certainly a big fan of Ornette Coleman. FYI: GONE
featured bassist Andrew Weiss and drummer Sim Cain, both later members of the
Rollins Band (a band that was no stranger to jazz sensibilities). Sim has
played with Zorn on a number of occasions. I think Andrew has too, but he's
more interested in hanging with Ween.
Planning a TV party tonight,
Tom
In a message dated 1/31/02 12:23:44 PM Eastern Standard Time,
selvig@sonic.net writes:
> I think some too-clever-by-half eager to display their herky-jerky chops
> were called "jazz-punk" for a while, Victims Family being the
> archetype. The Minutemen and the Birthday Party sound much jazzier to my
> ears, though I think both groups were too witty to call themselves
> "jazz-punk." If my memory of a mid-80s SST catalog is accurate, I think
> there is a Minutemen videotape called "Corndogs" which includes a jam w/
> "Ornette Coleman's rhythm section," presumably Charlie Haden and Billy
> Higgins. Has anyone seen this?
>
> Chris Selvig
>
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Speaking of SST and jazz-punk, Greg Ginn's trio GONE, the group that opened for Black Flag on one of their final tours, was pretty darn jazzy, incorporating extended jams and improvisations. Many think that Ginn disbanded Black Flag so he could spend more time playing instrumental jazz/punk/rock. He was certainly a big fan of Ornette Coleman. FYI: GONE featured bassist Andrew Weiss and drummer Sim Cain, both later members of the Rollins Band (a band that was no stranger to jazz sensibilities). Sim has played with Zorn on a number of occasions. I think Andrew has too, but he's more interested in hanging with Ween. <BR>
<BR>
Planning a TV party tonight,<BR>
Tom<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 1/31/02 12:23:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, selvig@sonic.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">I think some too-clever-by-half eager to display their herky-jerky chops <BR>
were called "jazz-punk" for a while, Victims Family being the <BR>
archetype. The Minutemen and the Birthday Party sound much jazzier to my <BR>
ears, though I think both groups were too witty to call themselves <BR>
"jazz-punk." If my memory of a mid-80s SST catalog is accurate, I think <BR>
there is a Minutemen videotape called "Corndogs" which includes a jam w/ <BR>
"Ornette Coleman's rhythm section," presumably Charlie Haden and Billy <BR>
In a message dated 1/31/02 9:15:13 AM Eastern Standard Time,
alankayser@hotmail.com writes:
> Having seen them perform live every time they visited Philly, I must say
> that none of their recordings ever matched the intensity that the live
> shows
> displayed. I think the first or second time they came around the band
> included Wayne, Z, Johnson, Dom Um Romao, and Chester Thompson.
I was going to jump into this discussion with one long email, but maybe I'll
do it piecemeal. The above quote is right on. I saw WR live probably a half
dozen times throughout their career, And they were always nothing less than
thoroughly impressive, though different, with each evolving lineup. Live,
especially from Ver. 2 (Alphonso Johnson) on, they were probably the closest
jazz equivalent there ever was to Pink Floyd. And that's a good thing.
Dale.
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<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c0c0c0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0">In a message dated 1/31/02 9:15:13 AM Eastern Standard Time, alankayser@hotmail.com writes:<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">Having seen them perform live every time they visited Philly, I must say <BR>
that none of their recordings ever matched the intensity that the live shows <BR>
displayed. I think the first or second time they came around the band <BR>
included Wayne, Z, Johnson, Dom Um Romao, and Chester Thompson. </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
</FONT><FONT COLOR="#0000a0" style="BACKGROUND-COLOR: #c0c0c0" SIZE=2 FAMILY="SCRIPT" FACE="Comic Sans MS" LANG="0"><BR>
I was going to jump into this discussion with one long email, but maybe I'll do it piecemeal. The above quote is right on. I saw WR live probably a half dozen times throughout their career, And they were always nothing less than thoroughly impressive, though different, with each evolving lineup. Live, especially from Ver. 2 (Alphonso Johnson) on, they were probably the closest jazz equivalent there ever was to Pink Floyd. And that's a good thing.<BR>
Amazon sells some of his other releases but not this one
A friend of mine who lives in Istanbul insists that Tacuma couldn't keep up with the Turkish musicians during that session. I would not hear of such blasphemy myself but he sticks by his story.
