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Zorn List Digest        Tuesday, March 26 2002        Volume 03 : Number 853



In this issue:
-
       Re:RJC
       Innovation; doo-doo head!; Philly
       Re: them crazy opera singers
       Re: toshimaru nakamura.
       Re: RJC
       Re: Innovation; doo-doo head!; Philly
       Re: Innovation; doo-doo head!; Philly
       PS Re: Innovation; doo-doo head!; Philly
       RE: Opinions on Wolfgang Rihm?
       Re: Innovation; doo-doo head!; Philly
       Philly
       Re: RJC
       RE: Philly
       no-wave
       Re: no-wave
       New Music in RealAudio, Mappings for the week beginning March 19, 2002
       Elliot Sharp on RJC

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:44:39 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re:RJC

<yawn, yawn, yawn in light of recent long boring sociological / musical diatribes on any topic>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:50:12 -0600
From: William Crump <[e-mail]>
Subject: Innovation; doo-doo head!; Philly

First:
I don't suppose that FZ's "Lumpy Gravy" actually broke any new ground,
but every time I listen to it, I'm more and more amazed and impressed.
I'm starting to think that it's the most important piece of music Zappa
ever produced.

For a true innovation, what about that John Cage piece that involved
about a bazillion tape edits? I forget the name of it, but I'm sure it
predates Zappa's tape-edit fun in the 1960s. Was Cage the first person
to do that sort of thing?

Second:
I came back from a very pleasant weekend in Nashville (the Lambchop
concert was excellent, thanks for asking) to find 241 variations on
"You're a doo-doo head!" "No, YOU'RE a doo-doo head!" in my inbox.
Thanks ever so much.

Third:
I'm going to be in Philadelphia for one day only, this coming Saturday.
I can't make any gigs (I'll be giving my evening to Masaharu Morimoto),
but are there any record stores I would kick myself for missing?

William Crump


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:46:29 -0600
From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: them crazy opera singers

depends on what you mean by opera singer. a lot of singers who do wacky
experimental stuff are trained in that style, but never sing opera (myself
being one of them).

do you know of folks like joan la barbara, cathy berberian, philip larson,
thomas buckner, phil minton, jaap blonk, etc.? they all explore areas of the
voice not normally touched - or did you mean to inquire about actual opera
singers doing the stuff that also perform opera regularly? THAT category of
singer is probably counted on less than one hand.

one performance i can recommend (and not just because i'm in it) is a show
done at the nervous center in chicago with vocalists Carol Genetti (chicago)
and Viv Corringham (london). it's three free improvs done for their festival
of electronic music back in february:

    http://craque.net/miquez/nervousctr20020227.html

i invite zorn listers to have a listen, it was really a fun fun fun show!
and the largest audience for an experimental show at the nervous center that
i personally have seen for a long time.

m

gorilla thing([e-mail])@Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 11:00:05AM -0800:
> not to interrupt the fascinating debate:
> but are there any opera singers doing
> some cutting edge crazy freaky music?
>
> -Chad
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>
> -

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:51:31 -0600
From: Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: toshimaru nakamura.

that was nobukazu takemura, not toshimaru nakamura. huge difference!

i was at the mr. scruff show downstairs and loving every minute of it. :)

m

[e-mail]([e-mail])@Sun, Mar 24, 2002 at 01:24:28AM -0500:
>
> In a message dated 03.23.02 19.17.29, [e-mail] writes:
>
> >You should check out some of the things that
> >Toshimaru Nakamura is or has been doing with no-input
> >mixing board and very very very high frequencies
> >although I don't really know how this will translate
> >to CD, as microphone placement, type, frequency range,
> >and the actual limit of 44100 Hz CD format have a
> >great effect on sine waves around 13000 Hz...
> >If you do buy any of these, do it to support Toshimaru
> >Nakamura, and don't bother listening to them very
> >much...(if you're wondering, I've seen Toshimaru
> >Nakamura several times and quite honestly never heard
> >anything remotely close to that on CD. There are times
> >when you can't hear sounds, you can only feel them in
> >your teeth, or as an unexplainable anxiety which goes
> >away when he switches notes)
>
> i just had to jump in here - i saw plaid with toshimaru nakamura last night
> at the metro in chicago, and he actually blew plaid away, in my opinion.  it
> was physically painful at times, and made me have to go to the bathroom, but
> it was intensely cool.  and his visual aspect was intensely cool, too.
>
> mmm.
>
> plaid had a computer crash in mid-set which was weak as hell.  i was pissed.
>
> love,
>   k8.
>
>
>
>
> ---
> [.n0thing.is.what.is.sAid.]
> k a t e  p e t e r s o n
> c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r
>
> http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html
> http://www.icefoundation.org (roundtable)
>
> -

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 19:00:53 -0500
From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: RJC

on 02.03.25 6:44 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

> <yawn, yawn, yawn in light of recent long boring sociological / musical
> diatribes on any topic>

yeah, so, whaddaya wanna talk about?

Here's somethings:

I've got all this horribly difficult research going on (said in a faint
nasal whine). The search for session details for my discogs and
sessionographies takes up more leisure time than I actually have. SO: Why
the hell do label folk (anyone out there?) insist on making many details
unavailable in the liners? I've got the most recent FOUR Ibarra-involved
discs on Tzadik with no mention of when. Since most discogs I've seen are
based on Chronology, this makes no sense to me. They know, why don't they
tell?

Knit does the same shit-- a few Gayle dates are missing from my william
parker document, (PRIMA MATERIA session) --I had to hunt for the Kingdom
Come dates-- and am i bitching here? Maybe I should eat before i write
this...

Harras has no date, HA! Avant, guilty also.

I had to, speakin' o' which, harras, sic, Rollins for the 2.13.61 Shipp and
/ or Parker discs. Took me about 9 months.

Is it considered somehow hip to be secretive about such things? Am I wasting
my time? Perhaps I should dump it all and start drinking lots of beer and
watching television? Isn't that what normal people do?

Research sucks,
RL
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k CRISPELL;  IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP;
D.S. WARE; COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL;
WORKMAN; Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag...


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:17:30 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Innovation; doo-doo head!; Philly

On Mon, 25 Mar 2002 17:50:12 -0600  William Crump wrote:
>
> For a true innovation, what about that John Cage piece that involved
> about a bazillion tape edits? I forget the name of it, but I'm sure it
> predates Zappa's tape-edit fun in the 1960s. Was Cage the first person
> to do that sort of thing?

If I remember well, Schaeffer's Studio d'Essais did not have a tape
recorder when it started (hence the emphasis on records). But I am
pretty sure that by the time Pierre Henry joined (late 40's), they
were able to acquire one. This puts tape music from that side of the
ocean to late 40's, maybe early 50's).

    Patrice.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:22:45 -0800
From: skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Innovation; doo-doo head!; Philly

on 3/25/02 3:50 PM, William Crump at [e-mail] wrote:

>
> Third:
> I'm going to be in Philadelphia for one day only, this coming Saturday.
> I can't make any gigs (I'll be giving my evening to Masaharu Morimoto),
> but are there any record stores I would kick myself for missing?
>
> William Crump

Jazz Sound a/k/a Sound Of Market.  Ask for Craig Baylor.  One of the best
record stops in the country.

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:24:37 -0800
From: skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: PS Re: Innovation; doo-doo head!; Philly

on 3/25/02 4:22 PM, skip Heller at [e-mail] wrote:


> Jazz Sound a/k/a Sound Of Market.  Ask for Craig Baylor.  One of the best
> record stops in the country.

at 11th and Ludlow (between Market & Chestnut) on the east side of the
street.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 13:09:29 -0500
From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Opinions on Wolfgang Rihm?

    [forwarding bounced message - message too large, mostly because
    it had HTML *and* plain text - rizzi]

Matt:

Hope you don't mind that I copied the whole list on this reply - you said so
many interesting things about Rihm that I thought everyone would benefit
from your insights. And you're right: Gejagte Form is very much a precursor
in the lineage of Jagden und Formen.

While nothing's ever etched in stone, I'm about as certain as I can be about
Jagden und Formen coming out here by fall. I know that Universal is planning
to "relaunch" the 20/21 contemporary music series then, and it will likely
be part of that effort. Strangely enough, however, I do know that another
20/21 title, with new pieces for viola and orchestra by Kancheli and
Gubaidulina performed by Yuri Bashmet, will be released here in May to
coincide with another disc by the same conductor (Valery Gergiev) that
features 'Pictures at an Exhibition'...

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
  -----Original Message-----
  From: Matthew Mitchell [mailto:[e-mail]]
  Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 6:46 PM
  To: Patrice L. Roussel; Steve Smith
  Subject: RE: Opinions on Wolfgang Rihm?


  I personally make a point in grabbing up every Rihm disc I can find.  I
realize that he's not for everybody.  People who like their classical music
really 'out' tend to get annoyed by the fact that he's not above occasional
neo-Mahlerian harmony and the motor rhythms and repetition that Steve
alludes to in the new CD.  He's also too often unremittingly violent and
sporadic for those who like 'continuity.' My friend Mike Johnson (writer for
the band Thinking Plague, don't know if you've heard of them) thought that
the Rihm violin/orchestra piece performed by Anne-Sophie Mutter on the DG CD
(the one that also has the Berg Violin Concerto) sounded too 'New-Agey.' (!)
Go figure...

  He's also INSANELY prolific.

  That said, I find his music utterly fascinating, and could write for pages
and pages on his stuff.  I find him to be someone who's innovative not for a
particular technique, but for the fact that he's fairly musically omnivorous
(within the 'classical' music history realm, that is) and doesn't feel
constrained to one strand of compositional thought.  At the same time, he
pursues his directions fairly thoroughly.  Never do I get the sense that his
exploration of an area is lowered to the realm of dilettantism (word?), even
with the stuff I don't like as much.

  Organic is a word I'd apply to him.

  There's a great disc on Col Legno with two pieces on it: Ins Offene and
sphere.  There's an utterly fantastic 2-disc set on Hanssler classic records
that has his first piece, also a string quartet/orchestra piece, which was
written when he was 22, and also a monolithic 3 movement piece called
Klangbeschreibung that's about 90 minutes long.  On Kairos is a disc called
Gejagte Form, which has some pieces that are precursors, I believe, to the
piece on this new disc Steve has.  Also great is the Arditti quartet reissue
on Montaigne/Naive that has quartets 3, 5, and 8.  (there's like 12 quartets
or something)

  Steve, do you think the chances are good that it will definitely come out
here?  The thought of this disc really has me excited, yet my cynicism
regarding the music business makes me extremely skeptical that such a disc
could ever be released anymore these days, even on a label such as DG.

  Thanks for bearing with me.

  -matt

  NP: Pierre Henry, Futuristie ( in a fir of new-discovery obsessiveness
that I get about stuff I like, I went and got a bunch of those Phillips
reissues.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 16:45:49 -0800
From: skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Innovation; doo-doo head!; Philly

on 3/25/02 4:35 PM, Zachary Steiner at [e-mail] wrote:

> Also check out AKA Music on N 2nd St; down by Penn's Landing I think.
> They have some things that Sounds of Market doesn't.
>
> Zach
>
>
>
If that's the place I think (I haven't lived in Philly for about 6 yrs but I
do keep in touch there), it's run by Mike Hoffman, who used to work at 3rd
Street Jazz, probably Philly's best-loved local store (espec when Craig
Baylor was working there).  Hoffman is posessed of deep rock knowledge.

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 20:42:35 -0500
From: "Michael Berman" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Philly

Theres another decent shop down on Second street, cant remeber the name =
of it offhand, but ill be up that way myself this week, so will look it =
up.  It's not as great as the unfortunatly closed 3rd Street Jazz- the =
ultimate in great new and used vinyl, and its a little pricey IMO, but =
worth the browse.  Haven't been to Sound of Market  in many years, will =
have to see if it still rates.

If you want to stock up on your rare Sun Ra,  Philly's the place.
mike

=20
- ----- Original Message -----=20
From: skip Heller <[e-mail]>
To: skip Heller <[e-mail]>; William Crump =
<[e-mail]>; Zorn Mailing List <[e-mail]>
Sent: Monday, March 25, 2002 7:24 PM
Subject: PS Re: Innovation; doo-doo head!; Philly


> on 3/25/02 4:22 PM, skip Heller at [e-mail] wrote:
>=20
>=20
> > Jazz Sound a/k/a Sound Of Market.  Ask for Craig Baylor.  One of the =
best
> > record stops in the country.
>=20
> at 11th and Ludlow (between Market & Chestnut) on the east side of the
> street.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> -
>=20
>=20


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:24:14 -0600
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: RJC

On Mon, Mar 25, 2002 at 06:44:39PM -0500, [e-mail] wrote:
> <yawn, yawn, yawn in light of recent long boring sociological / musical diatribes on any topic>

Best to return to the musical aspects of tangelos. If you put a
contact mic on them while peeling, they sound remarkably like
?akamura.

- --
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems        |
|                            http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html |
| Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:06:56 -0500
From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Philly

There seemed to be more of a selection of experimental CDs at AKA Music
(the store on 2nd St.) than at Sounds of Market.  Sometimes their prices
were better on certain items.  That's been my experience.  You won't get
the help at AKA that you will at Sounds of Market, that's for sure.

Zach



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 21:02:45 -0800
From: "carlos torres" <[e-mail]>
Subject: no-wave

with so much obscure no wave out there, i wish there was a way i could
sample some of it. does any one know of any good no wave comps  (BESIDES NO
NEW YORK!!!!) or perhaps some websites with good no wave info?? thanks for
your help

carlos

_________________________________________________________________
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http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 22:24:52 -0800
From: skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: no-wave

on 3/25/02 9:02 PM, carlos torres at [e-mail] wrote:

> with so much obscure no wave out there, i wish there was a way i could
> sample some of it. does any one know of any good no wave comps  (BESIDES NO
> NEW YORK!!!!) or perhaps some websites with good no wave info?? thanks for
> your help
>
> carlos
>
not to be redundant, but I recommend you go right to The Stickmen disc,
INSATIABLE, from the good people at Cuneiform.  The Stickmen were Philly's
contenders for the no wave cown, and were as good as it gets.

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 01:16:46 -0600
From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: New Music in RealAudio, Mappings for the week beginning March 19, 2002

Hi y'all,

This week on Mappings
<http://www.antennaradio.com/mappings/show.htm>, you'll hear works by
composers Chris Burn/John Butcher'Rhodri Davies/John Edwards, Ellen
Burr, Allison Cameron, Mark Dresser, Francois Houle/Eyvind Kang/Dylan
van der Schyff, Anne La Berge, George E Lewis, Denman Maroney,
Toshimaru Nakamura, Evan Parker, Sara Schoenbeck & Tim Baker, Stefano
Scodanibbio,

The show went online Tueday morning around 6:00 AM (-0600 GMT) and
will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program
(featuring works for strings and pianos played in unusual ways by
composers Louis Andriessen, Gloria Coates, Ellen Fullman, Yannis
Kyriakides, Alvin Lucier, and Stephen Scott) is still available in
the Mappings archive (click on the link to last week's show on the
page noted above), soon you will again find play lists for the
program since it began in March 1998.

Hope you tune in to the program.

Bests,

Herb

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 11:00:25 +0000
From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Elliot Sharp on RJC

Thanks to who ever contributed the Elliot Sharp quotes on RJC. I thought
they were very interesting and decided to track them down and it turns out
there's more! Here is another exerpt from his diary:

"Our final gig of this leg is at North Sea Jazz Festival. We're quite angry
at the presentation: we're listed as part of "Klezmer meets Jazz" and
there's precious little of either in a GTR OBLQ set - just a promoter's
fantasy. The notes in the catalog talk about my involvement in "Radical
Jewish Culture" and mentions very little about the real work of any of us. I
hate this Radical Jewish Culture marketing tip - I'm very much against
religion and nationalism - 2 of the world's great evils!!"

I'm quite surprised to see him have *SUCH* a negative aprouch. Didn't he
releasse several CDs in the RJC series?? Has there been any public debate
about this with him and Zorn or did Zorn ever comment on it?

I'd recommend checking out some more of his writings and interviews. It's
surprisingly good. His comments around september 11 are definately worth a
look. Have a go:

http://www.algonet.se/~repple/esharp/writings.html

Cheers,

NP: Nothing, but I have to get some Elliot Sharp stuff, that's for sure...
:-)
NR: http://www.zmag.org/content/TerrorWar/rawa_statement.cfm

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- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #853
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