ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/zorn-list/archive/v03.n852

Internet Message Format | 2002-03-24 | 24KB

From: [e-mail] (Zorn List Digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #852
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk


Zorn List Digest        Monday, March 25 2002        Volume 03 : Number 852



In this issue:
-
       Re: Dan the Automator (was Toshimaru Nakamura)
       Re: "...than a spoonfull of starmatter"
       Partch
       Re: Partch
       re: big gundown live
       Re: "...than a spoonfull of starmatter"
       Re: "...than a spoonfull of starmatter"
       knocking on the gates
       Re: Partch
       Re: Partch
       Re: radical biologically jewish culture
       new zorn
       Re: flag-waving, packaging and martyrdom (Still pretty off topic)
       electro acustic music festival Lisbon
       New Upcoming Zorn Release
       test
       nakedcity live news?
       Re:RJC

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:28:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Ronald Hiznay <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Dan the Automator (was Toshimaru Nakamura)

Sorry,

My guess was based on an incomplete google search in
which unfortunately the pages with information on the
schedule for the Metro were already updated with
yesterday's shows already removed. Aparently Dan the
Automator has also played there in a proximity close
enough for the Google search to return a "Dan the
Automator Nakamura...3/22 Plaid..." kind of response.

mushmush

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards«
http://movies.yahoo.com/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 16:29:48 -0800
From: "john schuller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "...than a spoonfull of starmatter"

If you are looking for epic without sword and sorcery go check out Sunn 0)))
Flight of the Behemoth. www.southernlord.com

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:40:51 -0600
From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Partch

It's pretty clear from his writings that Partch didn't think of
himself as innovative or avant garde as such. Rather he thought he
was returning to a kind of total performance art which he thought had
been largely abandoned in Western culture in which a small group of
performers all played instruments, sang, danced and acted, rather
than specializing in some single performance mode. He found
precursors for this form in Japan, Indonesia, and other non-Western
traditions, as well as ancient Greek theater. He called this approach
"corporeal" to distinguish what he considered to be its roots in the
physical (body) rather than the intellect as such. For him, most
strictly instrumental abstract music without plot, text and other
performance devices was an example of where Western culture had gone
wrong after the time of the Greeks.

Similarly, he thought of his approach to just intonation as a return
to earlier concerns about tuning and scales.

So, yeah, much of his work is literally and consciously derivative of
styles and traditions like Kabuki. And his last big piece, Delusion
of the Fury, is particularly so. I would guess that the fact that
someone familiar with, say, Kabuki, heard his own music as being
similar is something that Partch might consider to be a kind of
confirmation that he was on the right track.

Probably the most innovative aspect (in the sense of being without
much in the way of direct precursors) of Partch's work were the
instruments themselves, and even many of them were modelled on
instruments from non-Western cultures.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 20:37:26 -0500
From: David Beardsley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Partch

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Herb Levy" <[e-mail]>

> It's pretty clear from his writings that Partch didn't think of
> himself as innovative or avant garde as such. Rather he thought he
> was returning to a kind of total performance art which he thought had
> been largely abandoned in Western culture in which a small group of
> performers all played instruments, sang, danced and acted, rather
> than specializing in some single performance mode. He found
> precursors for this form in Japan, Indonesia, and other non-Western
> traditions, as well as ancient Greek theater. He called this approach
> "corporeal" to distinguish what he considered to be its roots in the
> physical (body) rather than the intellect as such. For him, most
> strictly instrumental abstract music without plot, text and other
> performance devices was an example of where Western culture had gone
> wrong after the time of the Greeks.
>
> Similarly, he thought of his approach to just intonation as a return
> to earlier concerns about tuning and scales.
>
> So, yeah, much of his work is literally and consciously derivative of
> styles and traditions like Kabuki. And his last big piece, Delusion
> of the Fury, is particularly so. I would guess that the fact that
> someone familiar with, say, Kabuki, heard his own music as being
> similar is something that Partch might consider to be a kind of
> confirmation that he was on the right track.
>
> Probably the most innovative aspect (in the sense of being without
> much in the way of direct precursors) of Partch's work were the
> instruments themselves, and even many of them were modelled on
> instruments from non-Western cultures.

True, but maybe the innovation was his rejection of Western culture
for an ancient and non-western approach that pre-dates Lou Harrison?
Aside from Ives, is he one of the first American fusion guys? I say American
to seperate them from Bartok and Stravinsky.

Thoughts? (these are my rambling thoughts, I'm back to my guitar for now)



* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 02:10:47 GMT
From: "nors5379" <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: big gundown live

now that i know such performances exist, do copies of it
exist out there in the nether world of the zorn list? not
saying that im actively pursuing this, but you know...
hahaha
- -darryl.


rich williams: <<<It was performed at BAM in 86 and in
Europe in 88. The NYC
show was very well done, 15-20 musicians. Milano Odea
performed with
4 guitarists (Frith,Arto,Quine,Frisell) and Shelley Hirsh
singing on
Erotico
were highlights for me.>>>


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 18:33:55 -0800
From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "...than a spoonfull of starmatter"

NR- _The Tin Drum_- Gunter Grass

Best book ever written.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:35:09 -0500
From: Rick Lopez <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: "...than a spoonfull of starmatter"

on 02.03.24 9:33 PM, s~Z at [e-mail] wrote:

>
> NR- _The Tin Drum_- Gunter Grass
>
> Best book ever written.
>

cat'n'mouse isn't bad either.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 19:10:59 -0800
From: Chris Selvig <[e-mail]>
Subject: knocking on the gates

I'm quite fond of Maryanne Amacher's "Third Ear Music," but anyone with a
baby can tell you that creating tones with sympathetic resonances in the
bones of the ear is far from a new idea.

Chris Selvig


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 23:11:01 -0600
From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Partch

At 8:37 PM -0500 3/24/02, David Beardsley wrote:

>True, but maybe the innovation was his rejection of Western culture
>for an ancient and non-western approach that pre-dates Lou Harrison?
>Aside from Ives, is he one of the first American fusion guys? I say American
>to seperate them from Bartok and Stravinsky.
>
>Thoughts? (these are my rambling thoughts, I'm back to my guitar for now)

The more I hear, the more I question the need to be concerned about
innovation as such. Firsts (& bests, for that matter) are of far less
consequence than the continuity and community in which "new music"
occurs.

Perhaps the numerous qualifications ("aside from", "one of the
first", "to separate them from") in David's comments above are
another, perhaps unconscious, acknowledgement of this as well.

Nothing I wrote earlier about Partch's music was negative, I was
simply stating that he saw his own work as a return to a tradition
that he thought had been lost in the West.

(& FWIW, other pre-Partch North American "fusion" composers would
include Henry Cowell, Ruth Crawford (Seeger), Colin McPhee,)
- --
Herb Levy
Mappings: new music in RealAudio
P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147 USA
http://antennaradio.com/mappings/show.htm
[e-mail]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 21:32:36 -0800
From: skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Partch

on 3/24/02 9:11 PM, Herb Levy at [e-mail] wrote:

> The more I hear, the more I question the need to be concerned about
> innovation as such. Firsts (& bests, for that matter) are of far less
> consequence than the continuity and community in which "new music"
> occurs.

I couldn't agree more, personally, except that I think the categorical
segregation practiced by the new music community has cut that community off
from a lot of bold music.
>
> Nothing I wrote earlier about Partch's music was negative, I was
> simply stating that he saw his own work as a return to a tradition
> that he thought had been lost in the West.

I think ol' Harry thought the spirit of America had not only been drained
from our music, but from our collective ability to use our own hands to
create things that had a function in our own lives.

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:58:28 +0100 (MET)
From: [e-mail] (Stephen Fruitman)
Subject: Re: radical biologically jewish culture

>aboriginal Jewishness

>"The prestige of ancient wisdom and suffering can be yours Now at
>discount price!"

>an ambiguous dual dimension of race and religion

Along with the subject line, I find these statements and phrases quite
disturbing.

>ethnic cleaning of <snip> the occupied Palestinian territories

Whereas I find this one quite simply false. It=B4s a war, a territorial war,
fruitless in oh so many ways, but certainly not a campaign of genocide.

>There is no clearly drawn line in the sky where nationalism or racism begin=
 and
>end, but we will notice that it is often simply when someone places origin
>(national, religious or racial) above all other considerations. This of cou=
rse
>has for effect to make the excluded

Are you accusing Zorn of this? Zorn who lives part of each year in the Far
East? Whose entire RJC series artwork is designed by a Japanese-American?
Whose RJC albums _are not_ restricted only to the circumsized - plenty of
non-Jews on plenty of the albums?

Tell me really, do folks really feel _excluded_ by the monicker given this
series? Something must be up, because this is not the first time "RJC" has
been up to debate.


(and even many of the included) feel very
>uncomfortable, and, since the mid-20th century, sad and worried that the
>lessons
>of history have been in vain, even among the educated.
>Apparently the rationalisation for this particular case was Jazz, supposedl=
y
>"black radical culture", a very poor and narrow reading of this rich and op=
en
>musical form. The term "Jazz" was at first synonym for another, more famous
>4-letter word starting with F, and never had the slightest pretentions or
>self-awareness as any kind of "radical culture" whether based on race or
>religion. It was good-time music, often a parody or cover of European
>opera, folk
>or marching tunes. The fact most of its players were black was fascinating =
to
>whites much more than to themselves. Never could such fresh, playful,
>inclusive,
>unpretentious music have sprung out of such a closed, normative, cerebral
>self-definition.
>
>4) the appropriation of popular musicians like Burt Bacharach or Serge
>Gainsbourg
>under this artificial umbrella, confirming its racist essence, since, at
>least as
>far as Gainsbourg is concerned, there has never been anything in his work,
>lifestyle or beliefs that could in any way be connected with Jewish=
 religion or
>culture. Therefore the only justification for his being displayed in this n=
iche
>is, like a dog, his biological species.
>
>Artists has gone overboard in the past and made embarassing mistakes (some
>irreparable) when trying to overreach their medium into the realm of social=
,
>political or spiritual matters. Wagner with racism and nationalism, Ezra Po=
und
>with fascism, Eluard or Picasso with stalinism, Chic Corea with scientology=
...
>
>I don't see any real threat coming out of Zorn's cute self-definition
>game, but I
>do find it disapointingly reactionary, and tasteless.
>
>D.
>
>(P.S.) God!... is it actually that important to me in the first place that
>I have
>to spend an hour of my precious time argumenting it for the umpeenth time!?
>hopefully the last.)
>
>
>
>
>>
>
>
>-

Stephen Fruitman
Dept of Historical Studies
Ume=E5 University
SE-901 87 Ume=E5 Sweden



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 10:55:03 +0000
From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: new zorn

- ----> May 21st

John Zorn "Iao" cd on Tzadik
Z'ev "The Sapphire Nature" cd on Tzadik

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:34:07 +0000
From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: flag-waving, packaging and martyrdom (Still pretty off topic)

Hello.

Just one comment:

>If only a thousandth of the 1 Billion Muslims on earth had marched through
>Arab capitals to protest the disastrously "radical"
>appropriation of their religion by Bin Laden and co., that would have sent
>shock waves across the planet and Osama into permanent
>vacation.
>Nothing of any sort at all happened. Hence the problematic connection
>mentioned earlier.

The image of Bin Laden is very differently portrait in the Muslim world,
than it is in Europe and especially America. Recently there was a huge
Gallup survey in Indonesia, Iran, Jordan, Kuwait, Libanon, Marocco,
Pakistan, Saudi-Arabia og Tyrkey. While the huge mayority of Muslims
condemmed the september 11 attacks, only 18% believe that it was comitted by
arabs. So why would they demonstarte against anyone else than USA? In the
same survey only 9% think that America's millitary repsonse was justified
and morraly acceptable.

The support for Bin Laden (and Taleban) is not for their religious belief.
Bin Laden called Afghanistan under the Taliban for 'The only real Muslim
country in the world". Hardly nobody agrees with him on that (banning music,
permitting women to go to school etc). His support was really very limited
before september 11. However, after October 7 it has increased drastically.
For obvious reasons.

Fairly related, for an EXCELLENT laugh, read "Terror's march backwards" from
The Observer:

Part 1:

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Observer/documents/2002/03/19/morris2.pdf

Part 2:

http://image.guardian.co.uk/sys-files/Observer/documents/2002/03/19/morris3.pdf

If you prefer, there's a simple text version here:

http://www.observer.co.uk/review/story/0,6903,668664,00.html

Cheers,

PS: Talking of alarming statistics: Last year, Scientific American made a
survey which concluded that 45% of americans believe that God created the
earth within the last 10000 years.






_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 11:45:38 +0000 (WET)
From: Ricardo Reis <[e-mail]>
Subject: electro acustic music festival Lisbon

    Just noticed this a little whille ago and so sorry for the
right-on-time notice. There will be an electroacustic music festival here
in Lisbon, from 26th march to 2nd april. details can be found at:

    http://www.ccb.pt/English/mu03-mviva2002.html

            greets,

                 Ricardo Reis

                "Non Serviam"


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 04:10:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Andy Marks <[e-mail]>
Subject: New Upcoming Zorn Release

Zorn, John - lAO
RELEASE DATE: 05/14. "The name lAO is Kabbalistically
identical to the
Beast and his number 666. In the tradition of Zorn's
longform studio
compositions Godard, Spillane, Elegy, Kristallnacht
and Duras, yet
completely unique in form and content, lAO is a
hypnotic seven-movement
suite of Alchemy, Mysticism, Metaphysics and Magic
both black and
white.  Inspired in part by the esoteric works of
Aleister Crowley and
his magickal disciple, filmmaker Kenneth Anger, the
seven movements
range from hypnotic exotica, ritualistic percussion
and death metal to
ambient, electronica and a stunning piece for female
chorus. As varied
and listenable as The Gift and as perplexing as Songs
from the Hermetic
Theater, lAO is a major new work by downtown's master
of the
unexpected."


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards«
http://movies.yahoo.com/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 18:36:06 +0000
From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: test

test

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 12:31:27 -0800 (PST)
From: jason tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: nakedcity live news?

Hello, I am getting really excited for the live naked city release.
Does anyone have any news? The only tidbit I know is thru a nyer that
talked with brucelee and apparently Z is running into some issues with
the cover art, surprise surprise.

Just realized this is how rumors start...

any other news would be greatly appreciated.



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards«
http://movies.yahoo.com/

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 00:04:01 +0100
From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:RJC

Stephen Fruitman a =E9crit :

> >aboriginal Jewishness

>"aboriginal: inhabiting or existing in a land from the earliest times or be=
fore
the arrival of colonists"
- -Oxford concise dictionary
If "radical"  means "seeking to get to the roots", I'm at a loss at what you=
 could
find disturbing here=2E
Could it be that because this term has often been used in connection with le=
ss
developped, animist cultures, it is pejorative in your eyes?

> >"The prestige of ancient wisdom and suffering can be yours Now at
> >discount price!"

I think if Moli=E8re or Orwell were living today they would'nt hesitate eith=
er to
satirize the superficiality of our spiritual mall culture=2E

> >an ambiguous dual dimension of race and religion

Why do you pretend to ignore that the notion of Jewishness can encompass bot=
h or
either religious and/or racial aspects, and that antisemitism is racism?

> Along with the subject line ("radical biologically jewish culture"),

>Did you read my point about Gainsbourg being exhibited like a dog for his
biological species and nothing else?

> I find these statements and phrases quite
> disturbing=2E

I find these concepts and mentalities quite disturbing=2E

     >ethnic cleaning of <snip> the occupied Palestinian territories

> Whereas I find this one quite simply false=2E It=B4s a war, a territorial =
war,
> fruitless in oh so many ways, but certainly not a campaign of genocide=2E

Milosevic will tell you (if you follow his current trial for crimes against
Humanity) that the Serbian army and police actions in Kosovo were only self-=
defense
against "foreign" terrorist groups working to steal back Serbian "holy land"
(Kosovo)=2E
I agree that Israel/Palestine is not genocide but let's not hide from the fa=
ct that
the fundamentalist Jewish settlers are about as humanistic as General Custer=
 ("a
good arab is a dead arab") or Hermann Goering=2E Nor from the patent connect=
ion
between religious zealotry and racism (Evangelisation of the American contin=
ent,
pogroms, KKK=2E=2E=2E)

> >There is no clearly drawn line in the sky where nationalism or racism beg=
in and
> >end, but we will notice that it is often simply when someone places origi=
n
> >(national, religious or racial) above all other considerations=2E This of=
 course
> >has for effect to make the excluded
>
> Are you accusing Zorn of this? Zorn who lives part of each year in the Far
> East? Whose entire RJC series artwork is designed by a Japanese-American?
> Whose RJC albums _are not_ restricted only to the circumsized - plenty of
> non-Jews on plenty of the albums?

I express only my irritation about a cute and narcissistic post-modern marke=
ting
concept (Madonna wearing the Cross is not very far) with reactionary
ramifications=2E

> Tell me really, do folks really feel _excluded_ by the monicker given this
> series? Something must be up, because this is not the first time "RJC" has
> been up to debate=2E

You might even find that I'm relatively oecumenical=2E
Here's Elliott Sharp (child of Holocaust survivors, great composer and music=
ian,
friend of Zorn's), from his "On line gig dairy", October 2001:

"10 days before our trip <to the Frankfurt Jazz Festival>, I discovered that=
 the
online festival program called KrashArea a manifestationof the "Radical Jewi=
sh
Culture" movement=2E This angered me greatly and I was able to get this publ=
icity
changed=2E I felt it was necessary to additionally clarify matters before th=
e
audience and spoke briefly about my longtime perception that "Radical Jewish
Culture" is an abhorrent marketing scam exploited by a few musicians and tha=
t
religion and nationalism are two of the world's great evils and shouls be
combatted, not celebrated=2E This was met with great approval by the audienc=
e -very
heartening! I believe that the young Germans who follow new music understand=
 very
well the legacy of nationalism run rampant and have a much clearer picture o=
f how
it creates worldwide damage- much more than the insulated and ill-educated
Americans, waving flags and dropping bombs=2E"

(Same, November 24, 2001:)
"Herzl's own diaries as he was developping Zionism reveal his strategy for "=
ethnic
cleansing" and desire to eliminate the Arab populations from "Jewish regions=
" of
Palestine=2E When Jews say "Never again!", it should apply to everybody=2E"

Best,
D=2E

>
>
>


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #852
*******************************


 To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to
       "[e-mail]"
 with
       "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest"
 in the body of the message.

 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

 A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
 subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest"
 in the commands above with "zorn-list".

 Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in
 pub/lists/zorn-list/archive.  These are organized by date.

 Problems? Email the list owner at [e-mail]