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Zorn List Digest        Friday, March 22 2002        Volume 03 : Number 844



In this issue:
-
       Joseph Jarman, et al
       re: hip hop
       Re: knocking on the floodgates
       Re: flag-waving
       Re: flag-waving
       Re: flag-waving
       Re: How come?(Radical Jewish Kultur)
       Re: How come?(Radical Jewish Kultur)
       Re: flag-waving
       RE: hip hop
       Naxos Jazz [was RE: How Come?]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:34:45 -0500
From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Joseph Jarman, et al

Yesterday I had the pleasure of attending a clinic given by Joseph
Jarman and Robbie Hunsinger at IU.  They then played that night with
Tatsu Aoki and Avreaal Ra.  I was completely blown away by both the
concert and some of the remarks that Jarman made during the clinic.  He
had a very collective perspective on improvisation; where the players
blend into one voice as opposed to the usual one-upmanship of jazz
improvising.  I was also impressed with his view of where the audience
fits into a performance not intended for entertainment.  He believes
that there is a give and take of energy between the players and
audience, so the audience is just as essential as the musicians to the
overall feel of a performance.

The concert itself was amazing.  All the players were contributed to the
overall sound equally, but did not lose their identity in the
collectiveness of the group.  I was actually surprised at how little
Jarman played during the performance and when he did it was either
backing or counterpoint to Hunsinger's playing.  They maintained an
incredible intensity through out the performance with only rarely
approaching a loud and abrasive sound.  I went with friends that had
never heard of any of the players and they were even impressed by the
intensity and power of the music.

Has any one else seen this group perform? Are their recordings
available?

Zach



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:51:37 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: re: hip hop

maybe I dont get it.  Is there a character named John Cage on Ally McBeal?  I
remember there was an old twilight zone episode with a character named Zorn.

> Oh, I bet Dre's watched 'Ally McBeal' once or twice... ;-)
>
> Steve Smith
> [e-mail]
> NP - Geirr Tveitt, Hundred Hardanger Tunes Suite No. 5 - RSNO/Engeset
> (Naxos)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of
> [e-mail]
>
> I doubt that Dr. Dre even knows who John Cage is.
>
> -
>
>
> -
>
Of the two John Cage's, that's the one I prefer myself.

sh



- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 11:54:44 -0800
From: skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: knocking on the floodgates

gee, nobody's mentioned REVOLVER here.  That's still, for me, the
rock'n'roll album that stands head and shoulders above 'em all for pure
invention and re-invention.

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:56:39 -0600
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: flag-waving

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 10:18:47AM -0800, skip Heller wrote:

> Show me a guy in a
> leadership in this country that you would call "the Eliot Carter of American
> statesmen" at this time.

Hmm, someone who says several conflicting and difficult things at
once, but everyone agrees he's profound? :-)

(I actually do like some Elliott Carter...)

> I doubt that Jospeh Zitt owns any Garth Brooks records.

Well, I do have a "Chris Gaines" CD single, which I got outa curiosity.

> I would also doubt
> that he's read THE BRIDGES OF MADISON COUNTY.  I hold neither of these
> things against him, and neither do you.  I don't think any of us on this
> list are really in a poisition to speak on behalf of our neighbors.  We're
> the weird guys.  The normal folks are putting flag decals on their
> windshields and getting behind the administration (and are not all-the-way
> informed about what they're endorsing).

Note also that many people who have put up the flags strongly disagree
with the current administration. This is consonant with the idea (only
the first half of which is well known, unfortunately): "My country,
right or wrong: if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set
right." (And no, I haven't put up a flag... and I remain curious about
the strong correlation between vehicles with flags on them and lousy
driving that I consistently saw driving around the country this
winter.)

> And these are the people who are on
> the news when they want a "man on the street" soundbyte.  When they get
> college professors or political analysts for commentary, you usually see
> something really boring.  And nobody from the news media seems intent on
> getting Chuck D, Jello Biafra, or -- on the extreme other side -- Ted Nugent
> to go into depth on camera about this stuff.

BTW, there is a lot of good independent media up at
http://www.indymedia.org/ though it doesn't have a fraction of the
impact of the huge media.

And another problem with our media is that "discussions" of issues on
the news talk shows usually consist of hardliners from each of two
supposedly-equal-powered sides going at each other like psychotic
starved pitbulls.

> Why is this? Look at who owns our biggest media outlets.  These are the
> richest, old boy network fat cats in history.  These are the guys who
> contributed insane amounts of money to getting the W elected.  They also run
> companies like AOL and Clear Channel.  They bring you the Shania Twain's of
> the world.   They're not going to give Michael Moore international airtime.

And this is only getting worse. Between AOL Time Warner,
MS-NBC-GE-Newsweek-WashingtonPost, Viacom-HBO-CBS, and Disney-ABC,
it's getting tight out there.

- --
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems        |
|                            http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html |
| Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:07:58 -0600
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: flag-waving

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 10:38:53AM -0800, Patrice L. Roussel wrote:

> In fact I was not really thinking about the minority of true intellectuals
> (although I would feel better if they were more outspoken -- assuming they
> care).

I would question, however, the efficacy of "intellectuals". Pretty
much by definition, they are sort of outside the realm of action, no?
When they speak out, who listens? Other intellectuals?

When it comes to getting people to notice issues, I question whether a
roomful of intellectuals at typewriters would have the effect of, say,
Don Henley or Bono. (There may be sports figures who are socially
active, but I don't pay much attention to sports.)

> The real tragedy (but I am a pessimistic person by nature) right now
> is that even among the liberals, there is very little reaction (and US is
> still 50/50 as far as the main two parties, right?).

Well, the reason that we're pretty much 50/50 between the parties is
that they differ very little. While most end up voting for one or the
other, opinions usually range wide of those platforms. (Unfortunately,
while 3rd parties seem like a good idea, recent implementations have
been pretty catastrophic, as shown by how Ralph Nader, one hopes
inadvertently, helped get Bush into office.)

> And if the rest of the
> world believes that US is one behind its leader, they have good reasons to do
> so. If Americans were paying a little attention to what is happening in the
> rest of the world (on which a good part of their wealth is based), they would
> be surprised.

Again, the problematic view of monolithic "Americans".

> Before September 11, there was a growing concern that US was
> becoming a problem (for peace, for economic stability, for environment, etc).

What would you consider as effective action against this?

> After the tragic event, these concerns were overshadowed by US (fairly) well
> accepted answer to the tragedy. But many indicators seem to indicate that the
> honeymoon is over. More and more people in this world are starting again to
> feel that the main problem right now is US, as represented by the Bush admi-
> nistration. And the silence of the opposition is quite disturbing (maybe
> trying to recover from 8 years of easy life and hangover with Clinton).

Stay tuned. The opposition is regrouping.

- --
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems        |
|                            http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html |
| Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:20:09 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: flag-waving

On Fri, 22 Mar 2002 14:16:43 -0600  Joseph Zitt wrote:
>
> Uh, are you suggesting that someone believes that Rumsfeld==God? If not, what are you saying?

Just two numbers that the rest of the world is looking at with
some puzzlement:

    80% positive rating of W
    95% of Americans who believe in God (according to one of them)

But since I am sure that you will come up with a friend somewhere in
the world who has not seen these numbers, I am expecting a quick
reaction showing how misled I am (since it appears that for you, an
exception (or a few) is enough to destroy a complete picture).

> But when you take more than a trivial look beyond the surface
> headlines, you will see a lot more dissent that you might
> expect. Note, for example, in the current scandal which, many hope,
> will bring down the current US admistration (which many believe was
> not appropriately elected anyway), only 17% of Americans believe that
> Bush et al are telling the whole truth about Enron. This is far from
> the image of monolithic dullards that some like to project as a
> stereotype.

You totally missed my point and in a typical Zitt fashion you tried
to move the problem in your (American-American) backward.

I was talking about GEOPOLITICS. What the rest of the world is seeing
when they turn their eyes and ears toward the USA.

Sorry, but the rest of the world is not keeping track of the all
the details of American politics. But they pay attention when
they see simple indicators like the ones I mentioned above. And
more important, they pay attention to the decisions of the current
administration (Kyoto treaty, ABM treaty, "axle of evil", etc),
allegedly backed by the vast majority of Americans (80%).

Now if you want to put your head in the sand and think that this
is their problem (since the rest of the world does't know, for
example, that Joseph Zitt is not in agreement with this
administration), that's fine. With some luck we will laugh at
that in a couple years.

> > If intellectuals were not nitpicking on irrelevant and frivolous issues and
> > open their mouth, maybe the outsiders would feel that there is some reaction
> > in this country. Right now they only notice a big silence from the ones who
> > are supposed to react. Is it only temporary apathy?
>
> "nitpicking"? "irrelevant"? "frivolous"? To what might these refer? I
> see no context in the current conversation.

I simply expect that when there are serious issues at stake, intellectuals
should put their work on a side and help bringing some light. Am I asking
so much? History has shown them quicker to react. Why have they become
so aphatic?

> > The rest of the world  hopes so.
>
> Ah, does this indicate a similar projection of monolithic-mindedness
> upon "the rest of the world" to the one that you project upon
> Americans?  It would be consistent with the paradigm, I suppose... but
> a more than simplistic view of humanity will reveal a thriving
> diversity of opinion.

The issue is not about diversity of opinions (you pet subject), but
that more and more people in the rest of the world are seriously
questioning the current administration on almost any issue concerning
foreign policy (to say it nicely).

Stop looking at the rest of the world like a pretty map with
different colors and different ethnies. They are definitely all
different but surprisingly, despite their difference, they are
more and more agreeing on one point: that if things keep on going
the way they go, US is likely to become their main problem.

If you want to fool yourself with the rosy feeling that just a minority
of the world is questioning the current American policy, fine. I would
not want to trouble your sleep.

    Patrice (who has been alarmed by the number of friends in France
        who have recently been more and more critical of US
        policies; not talking about the magazines and news).

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:17:22 -0600
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: How come?(Radical Jewish Kultur)

On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 02:14:08AM -0800, john schuller wrote:

> You outta check out female genetalia sometime. It's
> nice.

That would be "they", rather than "it", being a plural noun. But I
admit that you would have had trouble looking it up since you can't
spell it correctly.

- --
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems        |
|                            http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html |
| Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:40:00 -0800
From: "john schuller" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: How come?(Radical Jewish Kultur)

OK. They nice. (do you need a smiley face?)

Time for you to back up your belief that religion is not a choice. I am
waiting.


>From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
>To: john schuller <[e-mail]>
>CC: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: How come?(Radical Jewish Kultur)
>Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:17:22 -0600
>
>On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 02:14:08AM -0800, john schuller wrote:
>
> > You outta check out female genetalia sometime. It's
> > nice.
>
>That would be "they", rather than "it", being a plural noun. But I
>admit that you would have had trouble looking it up since you can't
>spell it correctly.
>
>--
>| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
>| New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems        |
>|                            http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html |
>| Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
>| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
>


_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:48:49 -0800
From: skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: flag-waving

on 3/22/02 12:56 PM, Joseph Zitt at [e-mail] wrote:

> On Fri, Mar 22, 2002 at 10:18:47AM -0800, skip Heller wrote:
>
>> Show me a guy in a
>> leadership in this country that you would call "the Eliot Carter of American
>> statesmen" at this time.
>
> Hmm, someone who says several conflicting and difficult things at
> once, but everyone agrees he's profound? :-)

Someone who, like him or not, everyone agrees is formidable and a true
thinker.

> Well, I do have a "Chris Gaines" CD single, which I got outa curiosity.

you have some apologizing to do ;-)

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:28:03 -0500
From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: hip hop

You got it, all right.

There was a Zorn on the pilot episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation,
too.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Wolfgang Rihm, Jagden und Formen - Ensemble Modern/My (Deutsche
Grammophon)

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of
[e-mail]

maybe I dont get it.  Is there a character named John Cage on Ally McBeal?
I
remember there was an old twilight zone episode with a character named Zorn.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 15:48:01 -0500
From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Naxos Jazz [was RE: How Come?]

(Changed the subject heading right away, so people looking for a brawl don't
look here... also recopied Skip's private inquiry to the whole list, so that
others might pick up on the series I'm about to tout.)

Skip, to answer your question in specific, the Kenton is very early, so it
sounds essentially like Benny Goodman with more impressionistic harmonies.
It didn't catch my ear too strongly on first listen, but then, it was on in
the background.

However, if you've been curious about the track, I'd strongly urge you to
seek out 'Balboa Bash,' subtitled 'The Complete MacGregor Transcriptions,
Vol. 1.' The sound of the radio acetates is surprisingly good for their age
(this was from 1941, for instance). The radio announcer's voice is an
anachronistic delight from a bygone era, and the music is all uniformly
enjoyable, if not necessarily the stuff on which Kenton's later reputation
rests. And at the Naxos price of $6 or $7, it's an outright steal. There's
also a second volume titled 'Etude for Saxophones.' (The Kentons have been
out in the rest of the world for a couple of years, but are just being
issued here this month.)

I've been enjoying the whole Naxos Jazz Legends series, a line of
single-disc compilations (and in the case of Kenton and Django Reinhardt,
series) of early material, well remastered and attractively priced. The
notes are all at least adequate and sometimes quite good, and the artists
I've collected so far include the abovementioned, plus Coleman Hawkins,
Teddy Wilson, Woody Herman, Stephane Grappelli, Sidney Bechet and Fats
Waller. The box that arrived yesterday included new issues by Kenton, Dizzy
Gillespie, Benny Goodman, Erroll Garner, Bix Beiderbecke, Sarah Vaughan, and
a disc of big band theme songs by Goodman, Basie, Ellington, Herman, Dorsey,
Lunceford... even Xavier Cugat and Eddie Duchin!

Naxos already had my support for new recordings of odd repertoire (like the
Geirr Tveitt and Gloria Coates discs with which I started the morning), a
handful of good new jazz things (like the New York Jazz Collective,
featuring Marty Ehrlich), and a line of exceptionally remastered historical
classical items by the likes of Heifetz, Cortot, Casals, Prokofiev,
Rachmaninoff et al. The new historical jazz series is just one more way in
which they've earned my musical gratitude. (However, a few of their series,
like Duke Ellington and Nat "King" Cole, are not being issued here due to
overly litigious record companies and estates.)

Check out www.naxosusa.com for more details.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Wolfgang Rihm, Jagden und Formen - Ensemble Modern/My (Detusche
Grammophon)

- -----Original Message-----
From: skip Heller [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Friday, March 22, 2002 2:26 PM

on 3/22/02 11:14 AM, Steve Smith at [e-mail] wrote:


> Steve Smith
> [e-mail]
> NP - Stan Kenton, "Blues in Asia Minor," 'Balboa Bash' (Naxos)
>
How is that "Blues In Asia Minor"  thing? often read-about, not heard


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #844
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