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Zorn List Digest        Tuesday, March 19 2002        Volume 03 : Number 825



In this issue:
-
       Quine tapes (VU)
       RE: Quine Tapes
       RE: Quine Tapes
       RE: fractal music?
       Re: Japanese Independent Music--book
       That's All Folks - new Stalling CD
       Re: fractal music?
       Re: Quine Tapes
       Re: Japanese Independent Music--book
       Re:  Previte/Frith/Some Questions
       Re: Previte/Frith/Some Questions
       Re: That's All Folks - new Stalling CD
       Re: Quine tapes (VU)
       Fwd: Re: Previte/Frith/Some Questions
       Re: fractal music?
       Re: fractal music?
       Re: Ethipiques
       Quine tapes (VU)
       Re: fractal music?
       Sharrock Inquiry
       OLIVER JOHNSON
       RE: Sharrock Inquiry
       Re: OLIVER JOHNSON
       RE: Boredoms in USA

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 14:24:05 +0100
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Quine tapes (VU)

>=20
> Personally,=A0I=A0think=A0their=A0attempts=A0at=A0extended=A0improvising=
=A0are=A0a=A0joke,=A0and
> one=A0that=A0wears=A0thin=A0in=A0nanoseconds.

Is "Sister Ray" being referred to here?  really?  "wears thin in=20
nanoseconds"?

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:38:04 -0500
From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Quine Tapes

>> But I take the third VU album (and, to a lesser extent, LOADED)
real seriously.

I do too but I enjoy White Light/White Heat a lot more and & Nico to a
lesser extent.  Maybe I need to give the Velvets' albums more time (I
only recently started listening to them) but WL/WH struck me the most.

Zach



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:30:09 -0500
From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Quine Tapes

 anyone with a different take on live
> Velvets?
>
> sean
>


>   But I take the third VU album (and, to a lesser extent, LOADED)
>real seriously.  When Lou Reed puts down the artsy-fartsy pose and really
>goes after songwriting by the throat, he's deadly (I'd also cite BLUE MASK,
>and some each of NEW YORK, and LEGENDARY HEARTS as examples of this).

don't get me wrong, i love those Velvets albums, it's the live stuff that
really doesn't do it for me.

>NP: the louvin bros, satan is real

Hooray for the Louvin Bros! "that word BROADMINDED is spelled S-I-N"
- -


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:31:47 -0500
From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: fractal music?

> i would also be willing to bet that this is why 99.99999% of all
fractal
> music sounds like complete doodie...

>Fractal music!? Are there bands around trying this out? I only am aware
>of the visual fractals.

Elliott Sharp has done albums based on both fractals and the Fibonacci (?)
series.  speaking as a fan, i can't say which i enjoy less.

sean


- -



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:12:52 -0500
From: Perfect Sound Forever <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Japanese Independent Music--book

> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:27:57 +0000
> From: "Arthur Gadney"
>
> Nice book, but be aware that it's quite full of factual errors. So you might
> want to double check. Still a good place to start further explorations, and
> a great CD to boot.
>

Definitely agree with this.  As a beginner's reference, it's worthwhile but not much analysis or
explanation about any artist's work.  I kind of think of it like 'Cracks in the Cosmic Egg,' the
tome on Krautrock- decent book too if only because nothing detailed is out there otherwise
(though the Cope book was entertaining).

Best,
Jason
- --
Perfect Sound Forever
online music magazine
[e-mail]
http://www.furious.com/perfect



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:28:42 +0000
From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: That's All Folks - new Stalling CD

Hey guys.

Any comments on "That's All Folksá:áMerrie Melodies & Looney Tunes"?

I'm wondering if it's worth the price. I'm as happy as anyone to see more of
Stalling's incredible stuff released, but some of the comments I have heard
has made me a bit reluctant. Apparantly, some of the tracks are the
"complete" sounds from the cartoons, sound effect, voices and all. So why
not jsut watch the video???

Cheers.

HTTP://WWW.TRANSCEND.ORG/



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- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:32:33 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: fractal music?

In a message dated 03.19.02 06.17.43, [e-mail] writes:

>Fractal music!? Are there bands around trying this out? I only am aware
>of the visual fractals.

i certainly don't know of any bands who are using fractal business, but there
is a wide array of composers (perhaps i should use the term lightly, here)
who use fractal mathematics and chaos theory principles to generate sound.  i
personally do not generally like the random soundbursts that this creates...
charles wuorinen is probably the largest proponent of this b.s. i can think
of...

k8.




- ---
[.n0thing.is.what.is.sAid.]
k a t e  p e t e r s o n
c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r

http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html
http://www.icefoundation.org (roundtable)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:35:02 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Quine Tapes

In a message dated 03.19.02 08.40.56, [e-mail] writes:

>don't get me wrong, i love those Velvets albums, it's the live stuff that
>really doesn't do it for me.

i've got to second sean's emotion here.  the thing i probably love most about
VU is the way they sound in a studio recording - the way the guitars ring and
the clean/dirty mix, and the clarity of the vocals.  this is all washed away
in live recordings (imo) to make a big amalgam of icky...

and i think i'm the only person on earth who hates nico.  and man, i hate
nico.

love,
  k8.


- ---
[.n0thing.is.what.is.sAid.]
k a t e  p e t e r s o n
c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r

http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html
http://www.icefoundation.org (roundtable)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 15:38:38 +0000
From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Japanese Independent Music--book

Hello.
á
>That's interesting.á Could you elaborate further on some of the factual
>errors, Arthur.á I'm curious as to where those are.á Thanks.

Well, I can't give you an actually example right now, as I don't have the
book with me here. You might want to go to the Japanese Psychedelia list,
where it has been discussed in more detail.
But I'm very tolerant of this type of thing normally, but in this book it
actually stuck out enough to really annoy me. And not only is it rather full
of mistakes, also some of the articles were very bad. I remember one, which
is basically one line saying "this is the best girl punk band in Japan". Not
very useful. The part on Boredoms, for example, was a scandal.

Some of the text was obviously clipped out from other places. I think the
one on Satoko Fuji is the one were they just took a part from a review of
one of her CDs, so the text actually says "this CD...", which doesn't really
make sense.

>Definitely agree with this.  As a beginner's reference, it's worthwhile but
>not much analysis or
>explanation about any artist's work.

Some of the articles are quite good, like on Ruins, but I suspect it's
because they have releases on Sonore ;-)

>I kind of think of it like 'Cracks in the Cosmic Egg,' the
>tome on Krautrock- decent book too if only because nothing detailed is out
>there otherwise
>(though the Cope book was entertaining).

I totally agree.

When will somebody translate Masami Akita's book on japanese noise? I
suspect it's probably mroe insingthful.

Cheers.

http://www.nd.edu/~milind/posts/hoodbhoy.html

_________________________________________________________________
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- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 16:30:41 +0000
From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re:  Previte/Frith/Some Questions

Ohoy!

>I also had the chance to listen to the new Fred Frith/Maybe Monday release
>on W&W, which is a whole different story. Just one listening is definitely
>not enough to swallow this wild improv, noisy record. Frith's playing is
>really aggresive, as opposed to previous releases of his like the wonderful
>"Traffic Continues" and "Clearing". It's certainly an adventurous recording
>that surprised me in comparison with the rest of the W&W catalogue. If you
>expected melodies, stay away from it!

Oh, that does sound good!

Any more info? Title of album, lineup, is it free impro...?

_________________________________________________________________
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- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 08:59:39 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Previte/Frith/Some Questions

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 21:28:27 +0100  =?Windows-1252?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= wrote:
>
> I'd like to add to those who recommended Bobby Previte's "The 23
> Constellations of Joan Miro". I've never really been into Previte's
> compositional style - although I never heard his Avant release, which is
> supposed to be one of his best works to date- [...]

You mean SLAY THE SUITORS? That's strange, because it is usually fairly down
the list of top Previte records. IMHO, not to the level of excitement of the
Gramavision/Enja material.

Maybe some people mention it because it is hard to find and we all know that
the hard to find records are the best :-).

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:11:22 -0500
From: Lang Thompson <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: That's All Folks - new Stalling CD

>Any comments on "That's All Folks=A0:=A0Merrie Melodies & Looney Tunes"?

My (brief) review is at
http://www.turnerclassicmovies.com/News/Index/0,3371,30|17|,00.html


Definitely pick up the two Stalling Project discs first though.

LT


- -----------------------------
Freedom Is Free Form
WFMU  http://wfmu.org
Fund Drive March 4 to 17

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:22:39 -0800
From: skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Quine tapes (VU)

on 3/19/02 5:24 AM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

>>=20
>> Personally,=A0I=A0think=A0their=A0attempts=A0at=A0extended=A0improvising=A0are=A0a=A0joke,=A0a=
nd
>> one=A0that=A0wears=A0thin=A0in=A0nanoseconds.
>=20
> Is "Sister Ray" being referred to here?  really?  "wears thin in
> nanoseconds"?
>=20
> -
Particularly "Sister Ray", for me.  In fact, the WHITE LIGHT/WHITE HEAT
ALBUM is a general thing.

sh


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 18:27:26 +0100 (CET)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Previte/Frith/Some Questions

Yes, that's the record I meant. I didn't know it was
underrated. Certainly, not here. Curiously, it's not a
hard to find item in Barcelona, at least it wasn't a
couple of years ago, and it was damn CHEAP! (i never
understood why US imports are more expensive here than
those coming from Japan- It's absurd!!)

I guess you are right, hard to find records are always
"better", even more if they smell like Japan imports
(their writing is so cute ;-))

Best,

EfrΘn
>
> You mean SLAY THE SUITORS? That's strange, because
> it is usually fairly down
> the list of top Previte records. IMHO, not to the
> level of excitement of the
> Gramavision/Enja material.
>
> Maybe some people mention it because it is hard to
> find and we all know that
> the hard to find records are the best :-).
>
>     Patrice.

_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:41:02 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: fractal music?

On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:32:33 EST  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> i certainly don't know of any bands who are using fractal business, but there
> is a wide array of composers (perhaps i should use the term lightly, here)
> who use fractal mathematics and chaos theory principles to generate sound.  i
> personally do not generally like the random soundbursts that this creates...
> charles wuorinen is probably the largest proponent of this b.s. i can think
> of...

Wuorinen's B.S.? Where does is put your own stuff?

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:49:13 -0800
From: skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: fractal music?

on 3/19/02 9:41 AM, Patrice L. Roussel at [e-mail] wrote:

>> charles wuorinen is probably the largest proponent of this b.s. i can think
>> of...
>
> Wuorinen's B.S.? Where does is put your own stuff?
>
> Patrice.
>
> -

It probably puts her stuff in an aesthetic place opposed to Wuorinen, which
is not the same as a place where you can level an attack on her work.

sh


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:55:23 -0800
From: "Toby Dodds" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Ethipiques

I was lucky enough to pick a few volumes of these for $10 at a Ethipian
record store in DC (can't remember the name but it's in Adams Morgan).  Vol.
4 "Ethio Jazz & Musique Instrumentale 1969 - 1974" comes with the highest
recomendation.
Cheers,
Toby



Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 01:49:03 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: ethiopiques

In a message dated 3/16/02 10:59:38 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Has anyone been collecting this series from Buda Musique?  How are they?
 Any favorites thus far?  And is there a reasonably cheap place to buy them
 rather than Other Music?  Thanks. >>

When my local store hasn't had them, I've been picking 'em up from Dusty
Groove.  IIRC, they price 'em @ $15/each.

- - --
=dg=



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 19:12:30 +0100
From: "\"*:-.,_,.-:*'``'*:-." <[e-mail]>
Subject: Quine tapes (VU)

>>> Personally, I think their attempts at extended improvising are a joke=
,
and
>>> one that wears thin in nanoseconds.
>>
>> Is "Sister Ray" being referred to here?  really?  "wears thin in
>> nanoseconds"?
>>
>> -


>Particularly "Sister Ray", for me.  In fact, the WHITE LIGHT/WHITE HEAT
>ALBUM is a general thing.


OK, in that case I can understand.  Huh : too bad.  If you don't get it, =
you
don't get it (I don't get a lot of things either).  What got me from the
very first time I heard it, Sister Ray, was the fact that somehow they
managed to achieve something -- a certain pitch of noise, maybe momentum,
maybe a certain je-ne-sais-quoi -- and sustain it for, counting, eight
minutes, ten minutes, thirteen, fifteen minutes, in some respects absolut=
ely
unchanging, until it all sort of falls apart in chaos and a final dzzzzzt
guitar note.  The second thing that really got me about "Sister Ray" is t=
he
fact that it SWINGS like a muthafucka:  once at an undergrad party (at
Berkeley?!) I managed to slip on "Sister Ray" and people quite happily
danced way WAY into it, until just about the final stages, when the major=
ity
of partygoers decided that they absolutely COULD NOT stand hearing it any
longer and turned it off.  But the band keep the beat and that wwwWHHOOMM=
PPH
swing much later into it than you would think [arguably, throughout].  An=
d
every now and then, Uncle Lou cuts in and gives us more narrative in his
brilliantly detached way, also unchanging throughout the duration, if you
can keep track of who's sucking on whose dingdong.  =80-;  [ <-- chowing =
down
on the Big 'Basa, hereby nominated as the "best new use of the euro symbo=
l
in an emoticon of the week" award]




- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:00:06 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: fractal music?

On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 09:49:13 -0800  skip Heller wrote:
>
> on 3/19/02 9:41 AM, Patrice L. Roussel at [e-mail] wrote:
>
> >> charles wuorinen is probably the largest proponent of this b.s. i can think
> >> of...
> >
> > Wuorinen's B.S.? Where does is put your own stuff?
> >
> > Patrice.
> >
> > -
>
> It probably puts her stuff in an aesthetic place opposed to Wuorinen, which
> is not the same as a place where you can level an attack on her work.

And we are supposed to see K8 and Wuorinen on the same level, right?

If she can dismiss Wuorinen's music so easily based on what she calls B.S. (his
use of fractals, I suppose), I would expect similar intellectual rigor from
her part concerning her approach using Godel's theorem(s) and Julia's fractals.
From an outsider, Wuorinen's timid attempt looks like cream to me :-). I
definitely see B.S., but not in Wuorinen's work.

For someone who has exhibited recently such little pity for what many consider
as heros (with of course the usual IMHO, which allows to say the meanest things
and covering his ass at the same time), why such a sudden rash of indulgence
for K8?

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 13:00:47 -0500
From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Sharrock Inquiry

This is for Steve Smith and any one else that wants to answer: What are
some good settings to listen to Sonny Sharrock?  Groups or individual
albums. Thanks.

Zach



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:05:38 +0200
From: Oger <[e-mail]>
Subject: OLIVER JOHNSON

Oliver Johnson, the drummer who played a long time with Steve Lacy
was found dead some days ago in a Paris square. There is a police
investigation. He seems to have been murdered.

Jacques Oger


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:56:16 -0500
From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Sharrock Inquiry

>What are some good settings to listen to Sonny Sharrock?  Groups or
individual
>albums. Thanks.

start with Guitar for solo action and the amazingly beautiful Ask the ages
with Pharoah Sanders and Elvin Jones.  for a more rock-style fix, check out
Seize the Rainbow.  stay clear of live in NYC.  for a more serious sonic
assault, try Last Exit.

sean

ask the ages is THE place to start






- -



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:07:27 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: OLIVER JOHNSON

    Yes, a really sad news.

On Tue, 19 Mar 2002 19:05:38 +0200  Oger wrote:
>
> Oliver Johnson, the drummer who played a long time with Steve Lacy
> was found dead some days ago in a Paris square. There is a police
> investigation. He seems to have been murdered.

Jeff Beer (on r.m.b.) heard that he was beaten up to death by skinheads
near Les Halles. Do you know where this is coming from?

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:11:35 -0800
From: "Benito Vergara" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Boredoms in USA

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [e-mail]
> [mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Arthur Gadney
> Sent: Tuesday, March 19, 2002 1:48 AM

> How was Boredoms?????

Saw Boredoms at Slim's in San Francisco last week (Jackie-O Motherfucker
opened for them; skronk-scree-drone; no great shakes).

I'd never seen the Boredoms live before, but I was preparing myself for
people collapsing from exhaustion. It wasn't quite like that, but people in
the audience were screaming spontaneously anyway. =)

This particular lineup happened to be four people (77, the kid, happened to
be sitting this one out and was with her mom, their manager, at the T-shirt
booth -- at least that's what my friend was telling me):
vocals/synth/samples/computer (Eye), and three drummers (Yoshimi, Eda and
Atr, I assume).

Despite the fact that the band involved three seated drummers and a
knob-twiddling Eye (he would shout into the mic every now and then), the
show was one of the more intense ones I've ever been to. They essentially
played one "song" for -- an hour? an hour and a half? I lost all track of
time -- pummeling the audience into a trance. Around 15 minutes into the
show Eye starts conducting the drummers in a lovely little cymbal interlude,
and then they go into full-tilt, high-speed, drum-circle mode, with Eye
jacking up the frequencies all through out.

Later,
Ben

http://members.tripod.com/~tamad2/
ICQ/AIM: thewilyfilipino / Yahoo!: sunny70


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #825
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