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2002-03-12
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #816
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Wednesday, March 13 2002 Volume 03 : Number 816
In this issue:
-
Non-JZ FS: Miles Davis, Alboth!, Cheesecake
Re: An aside: Rothko (..?*%!)
future Zorn rituals
RE: An aside: Rothko (..?*%!)
Xu Feng (was Zorn's Rituals)
the Melvins
Re: future Zorn rituals
what do people feel about Ponty's KING KONG?
Re: what do people feel about Ponty's KING KONG?
Re: what do people feel about Ponty's KING KONG?
Re: An aside: Rothko (was Patton's bad taste?!)
Re: what do people feel about Ponty's KING KONG?
Re: Melvins
Re: Melvins
RE: Melvins
Electro-Acoustic in RealAudio, Mappings for the week beginning March 12, 2002
Re: Melvins
Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #815
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date:
From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Non-JZ FS: Miles Davis, Alboth!, Cheesecake
A few items of possible interest to Zorn-listees ...
** PRICES ARE US$ POSTAGE PAID ** in North America (more for overseas)
If you don't like a price, make me an OFFER.
$20 -- Alboth! - "Liebefeld" GER CD (PDCD: cdppp112) 1992
[Brilliant sophomore album from this Swiss quartet. Produced
by Kevin Martin (God, Ice, Techno Animal). Feat. Alex Buess
(16-17), Werner L=FCdi, and Hans Koch. Deleted.]
$18 -- Miles Davis - "Agharta" US 2CD (Columbia/Legacy: c2k46799) 1991
[Recorded live at Osaka Festival Hall, Japan - 2/1/75. Davis
with Sonny Fortune, Michael Henderson, Pete Cosey, Al Foster,
Reggie Lucas & Mtume. Digitally remastered. Mint.]
$18 -- Miles Davis - "Pangaea" US 2CD (Columbia/Legacy: c2k46115) 1991
[Recorded live at Osaka Festival Hall, Japan - 2/1/75. Davis
with Sonny Fortune, Michael Henderson, Pete Cosey, Al Foster,
Reggie Lucas & Mtume. Digitally remastered. Mint.]
$10 -- Terminal Cheesecake - "Unhealing Wound" UK etched 7"
(World Serpent: ws7-001) 1991 [Actside: recorded live at the
Paradiso in Amsterdam, 2/21/91. Artside: etching, Augustus
Blowhound - "Mnxnena Hashassassin in E". Limited to 1000
copies. Out of print.]
- -Patrick
pm.carey@utoronto.ca
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 18:52:27 +0100
From: duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: An aside: Rothko (..?*%!)
Jonas Leddington a =E9crit :
>
> Fascinating to sit with a book of Rothko's paintings and inspect their
> progression in clear stages from his early work (primarily detailed
> portraits) to his late (the stripes for which he's famous)=2E
Sorry to be a drag, but abstract Rothko is all blurry rectangles and squares=
,
not stripes=2E Perhaps you meant Barnett Newman (his vertical "zips"), Frank
Stella, or Kenneth Nolan=2E=2E=2E?
D=2E
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:13:55 EST
From: SonataPathetique@aol.com
Subject: future Zorn rituals
I wish that someone would have posted that this performance was happening
before it happened. I was at Kim's video at the time of the show, just one
block away from where the performance occured. Reading all these reviews has
been killing me because I could have been there. Would someone please be
nice enough to post upcoming shows outside of Tonic? Thank you very much.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:44:56 -0500
From: Jonas Leddington <JLeddington@SARDVERB.com>
Subject: RE: An aside: Rothko (..?*%!)
Duncan wrote:
>Sorry to be a drag, but abstract Rothko is all blurry rectangles and
squares,
>not stripes. Perhaps you meant Barnett Newman (his vertical "zips"), =
Frank
>Stella, or Kenneth Nolan...?
Perhaps stripes was a poor description; instead, let's say very large
stripes, or bars, or blocks, or rectangles, or squares. In any case, I =
did
mean Rothko.
- -----Original Message-----
From: duncan youngerman [mailto:y-man@wanadoo.fr]
Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 12:52 PM
To: Jonas Leddington; zorn-list@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Re: An aside: Rothko (..?*%!)
Jonas Leddington a =E9crit :
>
> Fascinating to sit with a book of Rothko's paintings and inspect =
their
> progression in clear stages from his early work (primarily detailed
> portraits) to his late (the stripes for which he's famous).
Sorry to be a drag, but abstract Rothko is all blurry rectangles and
squares,
not stripes. Perhaps you meant Barnett Newman (his vertical "zips"), =
Frank
Stella, or Kenneth Nolan...?
D.
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:47:58 -0500
From: Jonas Leddington <JLeddington@SARDVERB.com>
Subject: Xu Feng (was Zorn's Rituals)
Thanks Steve and Brent for your thoughtful comments on Rituals. It's
interesting to
hear such praise for a piece I maintain was somewhat overwrought, the
movements blending into a morass of sound (however intriguing and unique
those sounds admittedly were). Frustrating I can't push play for another
listen...
As for Zorn knowing drums, I entirely agree. He recently performed Xu
Feng at the Miller Theatre in New York as a closing tribute to the actress
during a mini-fest of Hong Kong cinema. While I understand it was
originally recorded as a piece for two guitars, two electronics players, and
two drums, the Miller performance was for six drums. (Of the six, I recall
only Susie
Ibarra.)
I have not heard the original piece, but the drum performance was
outstanding, at the same time focused and varied, employing multifarious
rhythms and abundant improvisation over a unity just hidden from view, as it
were. Zorn directed various combinations of all six players, each of whom
assumed a distinct personality. From where I sat I could see a number of
the cards, which were surprisingly simple: "rhythmic", "fast", "slow",
"quiet" -- and, seeing the cards, it became very clear that the drummers
were working within distinct if broad parameters that must have been laid
out quite carefully before hand (the source of the unity).
Any comments on the recorded Xu Feng would be much appreciated.
Rgds,
Jonas
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 11:58:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Theo Klaase <river_of_dogs@yahoo.com>
Subject: the Melvins
Fantomas led me to the Melvins... After "Stoner
Witch" I have proceeded to buy 7 other albums on my
way to the entire collection....
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Try FREE Yahoo! Mail - the world's greatest free email!
http://mail.yahoo.com/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 15:32:35 -0500
From: <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: Re: future Zorn rituals
Actually, I posted a notice about the Rituals performance a little
while back, and I'm pretty sure one or two other people also
mentioned it. Sorry you didn't see these. I know the Zornlist is not
New York-centric, but I always try to mention special concerts like
this. In some cases, people coming in from out of town (Brent
Farris, for instance) might have a lucky opportunity to catch one
of these performances - and of course, the pointers here can
often lead to, shall we say, covert documentation.
Sucks that you were only a block away, though.
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:25:09 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
Subject: what do people feel about Ponty's KING KONG?
Since this list is quite loaded with Zappa fans, I was wondering if
people could share their opinion on Ponty's KING KONG: PLAYS THE MUSIC OF
FRANK ZAPPA?
Patrice (who should know by now...).
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:49:34 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <mingusaum@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: what do people feel about Ponty's KING KONG?
Patrice :
I have it on LP somewhere. Judging it as jazz music
without thinking of Zappa it's one of of JLP's better
sessions. It's not as good as the disc he made with
George Duke where he was playing the violin like a
tenor saxophone, but it (to mix metaphors) stands head
and shoulders above his later jazz-rock efforts where
he was trying to play his fiddle like an electric
guitar.
I also suppose it's the LP that got JLP his Mothers
gig.
Ken Waxman
- --- "Patrice L. Roussel" <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
wrote:
>
> Since this list is quite loaded with Zappa fans, I
> was wondering if
> people could share their opinion on Ponty's KING
> KONG: PLAYS THE MUSIC OF
> FRANK ZAPPA?
>
> Patrice (who should know by now...).
>
> -
>
=====
Ken Waxman
mingusaum@yahoo.ca
www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos
______________________________________________________________________
Find, Connect, Date! http://personals.yahoo.ca
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 13:49:08 -0800
From: "s~Z" <keithmar@msn.com>
Subject: Re: what do people feel about Ponty's KING KONG?
Maybe Ponty will show up Thursday:
3/14/02
8:00 PM
Knitting Factory Hollywood
Project/Object w/ Ike Willis & Napoleon Murphy Brock
plus The Grandmothers w/many Mothers alumni
Ike and Napoleon are both Zappa band vets and are not
to be missed. "It's not fair to call Project/Object a Frank Zappa
tribute. The late composer's gargantuan, technically imposing
output doesn't exactly lend itself to facile cover songs by bar-
band hacks. It's more like a repertory for a fine-tuned
philharmonic
with a collective case of Tourette's." -- San Francisco Chronicle
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 16:03:39 -0600
From: "Ben Axelrad" <soulfrieda@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: An aside: Rothko (was Patton's bad taste?!)
This argument has, in fact, been made by Anna Chave (in a book based on her
dissertation?). Don't have any further details (sorry), I ran across it a
long time ago in my college library, probably avoiding a problem set or
two...
Ben
>From: Jonas Leddington <JLeddington@SARDVERB.com>
>To: "'zorn-list@lists.xmission.com'" <zorn-list@lists.xmission.com>
>Subject: An aside: Rothko (was Patton's bad taste?!)
>Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 12:26:47 -0500
>
>Joseph Zitt:
>
> >But reflecting reality on canvas is hardly necessary, or even
> >particularly relevant. What reality, in this sense, did Mark Rothko's
> >work reflect?
>
>Fascinating to sit with a book of Rothko's paintings and inspect their
>progression in clear stages from his early work (primarily detailed
>portraits) to his late (the stripes for which he's famous). One could
>argue
>that Rothko's late works are all portraits.
>
>Cheers.
_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 14:11:25 -0800
From: skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: what do people feel about Ponty's KING KONG?
I like it, but it's never been a heavy rotation record for me. A lot of
that one sounds undercooked to me.
skip h
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:23:07 +0000
From: "Bill Ashline" <bashline@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Melvins
From: duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: Melvins / Eyvind Kang
john schuller a =E9crit :
> In my opinion the Melvins are the greatest band that has ever existed=2E
E=
ver=2E
> Period=2E No Question about it=2E
NO WAY you're gonna make a statement like that without giving us (those who
don't know) SOME information about WHO the FUCK they ARE and WHAT kind of
SH=
IT
they DO=2E=2E?$!*!%*+
Check out the early Naked City recordings. Zorn sites them as an influence.
_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 02:34:20 +0000 (GMT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= <blackoperations13@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Melvins
This is the 2nd or 3rd time that Melvins have been the
topic of conversation on the Zorn list.
I certainly don't have a problem with it, but I don't
really want to repeat myself reagrding Melvins and
related/similar bands. But, if I have too...
It's old news that Melvins "Lysol" was partly the
inspiration for "Leng Tch'e", etc.
If anyone is interested in hearing Melvins, the best
thing I could say is to start at the start and work
your way through their discography.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 22:18:45 -0500
From: "Steve Smith" <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: RE: Melvins
Funny thing about old news is that it always remains new news to someone,
somewhere. I just learned a few days ago that Debussy and Ravel considered
Grieg a major influence on their piano music. Go figure.
Speaking as an instigator of one of those two or three recent Melvins
threads, I bought seven of their discs over the course of three weeks last
year based on that conversation. I also put the list of Melvins suggestions
from Z-lister Richard Allen* on my Palm Pilot, and continue to use it when
I'm shopping.
Until Mike Rizzi can get the new Zornlist Archive Search Appliance up and
running - at which point we can just all sniff at questions about old news
and imperiously type, "Check the FAQ, maaannnnnn"** - I'm just as happy to
see new folks asking redundant questions and getting redundant answers.
Now, who can tell me something more substantial about the Thrones than just
the fact that "they" are actually Lysol-era Melvins bassist Joe Preston?
That much I've learned, but what's worth hearing? ("They" are opening for
Khanate and Sigh here in early May, in what already portends to be the
alterna-metal show of the year.)
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
* Richard's primer for Melvins beginners, which I've found pretty useful,
was as follows: Houdini, Bullhead, Eggnog, Stoner Witch, Gluey Porch
Treatments, Stag, 10 Songs, the Amphetamine Reptile 2CD collection of
monthly 7"s, Your Choice Live. (Obviously, some of these have been harder to
find than others...) He also added, "Note: Prick and Honky are noise records
a la Colossus of Destiny." Richard, if you're still here, continued thanks.
** I'm not picking on you, Michael. Poking you in the ribs, maybe, but not
picking on you.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 23:01:54 -0600
From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com>
Subject: Electro-Acoustic in RealAudio, Mappings for the week beginning March 12, 2002
Hi y'all,
This week on Mappings
<http://www.antennaradio.com/mappings/show.htm>, you'll hear works
for electronics and instruments by composer/performers Howard
Frederics, Jonathan Harvey, If Bwana, Greg Kelley & Jason Lescalleet,
Thomas Lehn & Gerry Hemingway, Gordon Mumma, Pauline Oliveros, Mark
Trayle & Vinnie Golia, and Stephen Vitiello.
The show went online Tueday morning around 6:00 AM (-0600 GMT) and
will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program
(featuring works by Ingram Marshall) is still available in the
Mappings archive
<http://antennaradio.com/mappings/last_list_notes.htm>, where you can
also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998.
Hope you tune in to the program.
Bests,
Herb
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 00:08:19 -0600
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: Melvins
On Tue, Mar 12, 2002 at 10:18:45PM -0500, Steve Smith wrote:
> Funny thing about old news is that it always remains new news to someone,
> somewhere. I just learned a few days ago that Debussy and Ravel considered
> Grieg a major influence on their piano music. Go figure.
I recall hearing that John Cage was a heavy Grieg fan when quite young
and at one point contemplating devoting his life to Grieg's music.
Which leads to some sort of musicological Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon.
BTW, you get all sorts of interesting results when you mistype "Edvard
Grief" into Google.
- --
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems |
| http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html |
| Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:31:11 +0100
From: francko.lamerikx@philips.com
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #815
> well, i know Zorn likes the Melvins. a friend of mine asked him what metal
> he was into, and he listed The Melvins, Napalm Death, and Death.
Aha, Zorn likes them, so they *must* be good, right? And the other two metal
bands he likes must probably also be the absolute bomb, then?
The Melvins are but one (but, admittedly, a very good one), in a string of
bands that have sport a very thick, droney sound. Others are Earth, Isis
(now on Mike Patton's Ipecac), SunO))), and the Japanese bands Corrupted and Boris
(I bet you Zorn is totally into Corrupted).
We've had this metal discussion before, and it must be repeated that there are
tons of good metal records coming out, some even ground-breaking, some even more
avant-garde than the self-declared avant-garde; a lot more than The Wire would dare to
admit.
Check out:
Mortician "Domain of Death"
NY gore core, super-fast drumming, intros from all kinds of horror movies, totally
excellent; they will have a new album later this year with live drums for the first
time.
Morbid Angel "Formulas Fatal to the Flesh"
Stunning guitar extravaganza from Trey Azagthoth, who would be hailed as an
avant-garde guitar genius by The Wire if only he didn't play metal.
Nile "Black Seeds of Vengeance"
Probably the best death metal in recent years; super-complex songs with hardly
any room to breathe, everything at break-neck speed, multi-layered, fascinating.
They'll also have a new album out this year.
Burnt by the Sun "Soundtrack to the Personal Revolution"
I caught their drummer live with Melt-Banana (so there's another tie-in for the
Zorn afficionados) last year, and have been looking forward to this album ever
since; I haven't heard it yet, but it's getting rave reviews everywhere, and
it is said to be the best thing Relapse did since Dillinger Escape Plan.
Enslaved "Monumension"
Incredible album from these black metal descendants, totally misunderstood by
the metal community for its reliance on Pink Floyd and King Crimson influences,
heavy organ tracks, complex song-structures, etc.
Converge "Jane Doe"
A blow in the face. A knife in the back. Fuckin' intense. Incredibly noisy.
For those who have always wondered how Merzbow would translate to metal.
Meshuggah "Chaosphere"
My favorite metal album of all time. Incredibly complex, I've seen tablatures
where time signatures like 28/16, 25/16, 23/16, etc. were running amock in
one and the same song. This is also an album that is widely misunderstood by
the metal community. The much heard complaint that "all the tracks sound the
same" goes a long way to support the theorem that a lot of people just don't
have ears.
Arcturus "The Sham Mirrors" (4/9)
If this is going to be anything like their previous masterpiece "La masquerade
infernale" then we're up for something... Heavy prog-rock influences, operatic
vocals, E.A.Poe poems for lyrics, carnival organ parts, drum'n'bass,...
Frankco
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #816
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