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2002-03-04
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #808
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Tuesday, March 5 2002 Volume 03 : Number 808
In this issue:
-
Re: breakin' up is hard to do (wop).
Re: Break up Music/ "Whiter shade"
Mark Hollis/Talk Talk (no JZ content)
RE: eno
Re: and the opposite of not sex
Re: breakin' up is hard to doo(wop).
Ingram Marshall in RealAudio, Mappings for the week beginning March 5, 2002
RE: eno & remastering
Re: Break up Music/ "Whiter shade"
Re: eno & remastering
RE: eno & remastering
Re: eno & remastering
RE: Break Up Music
Re: Break Up Music
Fwd: Re: breakin' up is hard to doo(wop).
RE: eno & remastering
Re: eno & remastering
RE: eno & remastering
Re: breakin' up is hard to doo(wop).
Fwd: RE: eno & remastering
RE: breakin' up is hard to do (wop).
Re: breakin' up is hard to doo(wop).
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1904 21:36:40 +0100
From: duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: breakin' up is hard to do (wop).
- ----10cc: "I'm not in love"
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 06 Jan 1904 21:50:03 +0100
From: duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: Break up Music/ "Whiter shade"
Tosh a =E9crit :
> I always found Procol Harum's 'Whiter Shade Than Pale' an extremely
> sad song=2E
One of the greatest singles of all times (with it's contemporaries "Good
vibrations", "Groovin'", "Ode to Billy Joe", "When a man loves a woman",
"Dock of the bay", "Somebody to love", etc --what a YEAR that was for
pop---), which I find sad,yes, but also incredibly
uplifting/romantically inspiring=2E "Fifteen hundred vestal virgins",
etc=2E=2E)
Gainsbourg's "Je t'aime/ moi non plus" is clearly inspired by it (the
Bach-like organ)=2E
DY=2E
> -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 11:08:52 +0000
From: "David Evans" <davidcerievans@hotmail.com>
Subject: Mark Hollis/Talk Talk (no JZ content)
Greetings to all you Mark Hollis/Talk Talk fans out there.
I too am grateful that Hollis left us with Spirit of Eden (my favourite),
Laughing Stock and his solo album before he retired. 'Colour of Spring' is
also a pretty good record.
The last stuff I heard he was invovled with was UNKLE - Psyence Fiction,
which he was very unhappy with and had his name removed from the credits.
The track 'Rabbit in your headlights' also features a sample of Lee Harris'
drums from New Grass off Laughing Stock, which I don't think is credited.
He also co-wrote and co-produced some of 'Smiling and Waving' by Anja
Garbarek, and you can tell. A lot of it has that '2-mics-in-a-room-chamber
feel of his solo record.
I heard 'O'-rang had split up. Any news on that?
Dave Evans
_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 08:50:23 -0500
From: "Sean Westergaard" <seawes@allmusic.com>
Subject: RE: eno
>I'll agree also with Eno as a great soundtrack, although for me it's
>_Discreet Music_ and _Another Green World_, both of which I have on
>vinyl and sorely need to be replaced.
the Eno catalogue is in serious need of a remastering. if you can find and
afford them, the Eno boxes (out of print on Virgin) are the way to go. the
sound is vastly superior. the individual cd's are sounding pretty flat
nowadays.
sean, who re-buys way too many reamstered recordings
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:22:34 -0500
From: Mark Saleski <marks@foliage.com>
Subject: Re: and the opposite of not sex
NRBQ - I Love Her, She Loves Me
actually, anything by NRBQ.
- --
Mark Saleski - marks@foliage.com | http://www.foliage.com/~marks
"Music is spiritual. The music business is not." - Van Morrison
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:05:20 -0500
From: "Nirav Soni" <nirav@ink19.com>
Subject: Re: breakin' up is hard to doo(wop).
Put on Morton Feldman's "For Phillip Guston." Open bottle of cheap alcohol.
Repeat. Or, go swimming.
Also, any number of Indian film soundtracks from the 50's and 60's work
equally well...I like "Pakeezah." When I'm feeling really relationship low,
I'll watch Raj Kapoor's "Sangam" over and over. Westerns are great
too....all that heroic solitude.
Nirav
- --
AIM: Icefactory37
"Duration is to the consciousness as light is to the eye" - Bill Viola
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 07:28:51 -0600
From: Herb Levy <herb@eskimo.com>
Subject: Ingram Marshall in RealAudio, Mappings for the week beginning March 5, 2002
Hi y'all,
This week on Mappings <http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/>,
you'll hear works for electronics and ensembles by composer Ingram
Marshall.
The show went online Tueday morning around 6:00 AM (-0600 GMT) and
will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program
(featuring works for multiple instruments by Chris Brown, Joseph
Celli, Annie Gosfield, José Maceda, Phill Niblock, Salvatore
Sciarrino, Lois V Vierk, and Samuel Vriezen) is still available in
the Mappings archive
<http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/index1.htm>, where you
can also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998.
Earlier this morning the new Antenna Web site was working, but it's
not right now. If you use these URLs, you'll be directed to the new
pages when they're really up & running. Please let me know if you
have any trouble navigating the new site. Thanks a lot.
Hope you tune in to the program.
Bests,
Herb
- --
Herb Levy
Mappings on Antenna Internet Radio
<http://www.antennaradio/avant/mappings/>
mappings@antennaradio.com
Mappings P O Box 9369 Forth Wort, TX 76147 USA
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 07:36:21 -0800
From: Tosh <tosh@loop.com>
Subject: RE: eno & remastering
I think I am going to start another theme that will last at
least...for a week! Anyway here it goes: and it is sort of a naive
question:
Is it worth buying something you have already if it has been
remasterd? For instance, I purchased Love 'Forever Changes' some
years ago. Love the album, but besides the bonus cuts - is it worth
it to buy the remaster vision for its sound.
On the Zorn front, I do have the two versions of the Morricone
tribute - and I bought the new remastered one because of the bonus
cuts. But is the sound better than the Nonsuch version?
My ears or stereo is not that sophisticated, so I would like to hear
some opinions on the subject matter of remastering.
P.S. Oh, and for the last three or four months I have been
purchasing the remasterd Miles stuff. The sound is incredible - but
how was the sound on the original release of the CD's?
- --
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 07:39:23 -0800
From: Tosh <tosh@loop.com>
Subject: Re: Break up Music/ "Whiter shade"
>Ahh, the roots of my obsession with Gainsbourg! Procol Harum is cool!
>
>Gainsbourg's "Je t'aime/ moi non plus" is clearly inspired by it (the
>Bach-like organ).
>
>DY.
>
> > -
- --
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:44:49 -0500
From: James Hale <jhale@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: eno & remastering
The sound on the earlier/initial CDs of Miles' Columbia stuff was pretty
awful... harsh, metallic, shallow.
The biggest difference is discernable on Kind Of Blue. The initial CD
accentuated the tape hiss on the session and didn't fix the pitch
problem that was introduced when the LP was mastered. Both the gold and
regular remasterings are miles ahead (sorry), and the gold one is one of
the warmest recordings I've ever heard. Listen to it through headphones
and you'll swear you're in the studio.
James
Tosh wrote:
> P.S. Oh, and for the last three or four months I have been
> purchasing the remasterd Miles stuff. The sound is incredible - but
> how was the sound on the original release of the CD's?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:36:16 -0500
From: "Sean Westergaard" <seawes@allmusic.com>
Subject: RE: eno & remastering
>Is it worth buying something you have already if it has been
>remasterd? For instance, I purchased Love 'Forever Changes' some
>years ago. Love the album, but besides the bonus cuts - is it worth
>it to buy the remaster vision for its sound.
>how was the sound on the original release of the CD's?
the original versions of the Miles stuff sounds like shit in comparison. I
think the deluxe version of Forever Changes will blow your mind (plus you
get the single Your Mind and We Belong Together. What a guitar solo!) I
think if an album was released on cd more than 7 years or so ago, a
remastering will very likely be a major sonic improvement. I've done side
by side tests on albums like Thembi by Pharoah Sanders and the difference
was staggering. same with albums like Agharta by Miles, where the domestic
version still sounds crappy.
but i stated up front i have a "problem" with repurchasing for better sound.
anyone else care to chime in?
sean
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:59:19 EST
From: UFOrbK8@aol.com
Subject: Re: eno & remastering
In a message dated 03.05.02 10.47.14, seawes@allmusic.com writes:
>but i stated up front i have a "problem" with repurchasing for better sound.
>anyone else care to chime in?
i'm chiming. i have never repurchased an album for a remaster, or for that
matter, for the bonus tracks. well, maybe once. but it was a weird and rare
orb maxi single that had been reworked, not really remastered.
the only example i can think of off hand is Pet Sounds. i have a copy of Pet
Sounds on cassette, in all of its mono glory, and i just heard the 'stereo'
remaster of it about three weeks ago. it was actually almost physically
painful for me to listen to. i think that Pet Sounds is resplendent in its
original form.
some things were destined to sound better in their analogue glory.
although i can see impetus for buying remasters of old jazz and the like for
cleaner recordings. but then again, some people *like* dirty recordings...
i know i would feel ill if i heard a remaster of stravinsky conducting
stravinsky doing 'rite of spring'... so i've avoided it!
i guess i'm just not enough of a snob to buy both the regular and the
remaster. but my ears can decidedly tell the difference.
i would be curious about what a remaster of one of the eno ambient albums
would sound like. although one of the things i find most appealing about
music for airports is the slight tape hiss / buzzing you can hear in between
the piano/vibraphone stuff in the first movement. mmm...
palindrome of the day:
eno, do me mod one!
love,
k8.
- ---
[.n0thing.is.what.is.sAid.]
k a t e p e t e r s o n
c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html
http://www.icefoundation.org (roundtable)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:31:26 EST
From: Brennansf@aol.com
Subject: RE: Break Up Music
Not to forget "You've Changed" by Billie Holliday (and the rest of Lady in
Satin) Whew!
jb
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:49:30 EST
From: Nvinokur@aol.com
Subject: Re: Break Up Music
Harry Nilsson "You're Breaking My Heart, you've torn it apart, so fuck you."
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 17:59:48 +0100 (CET)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es>
Subject: Fwd: Re: breakin' up is hard to doo(wop).
Hi,
Whenever I'm feeling down, Carla Bley always works,
specially "Dinner Music" or "4X4". A good therapy is
going out on the street and checking that there's life
after whoever- specially in summer: tight clothes,
tanned skins,... :-)
Cheer up!
EfrΘn del Valle
_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 09:59:50 -0800
From: Dave Trenkel <improv@peak.org>
Subject: RE: eno & remastering
At 7:36 AM -0800 3/5/2002, Tosh wrote:
>I think I am going to start another theme that will last at
>least...for a week! Anyway here it goes: and it is sort of a naive
>question:
>
>Is it worth buying something you have already if it has been
>remasterd? For instance, I purchased Love 'Forever Changes' some
>years ago. Love the album, but besides the bonus cuts - is it worth
>it to buy the remaster vision for its sound.
>
>On the Zorn front, I do have the two versions of the Morricone
>tribute - and I bought the new remastered one because of the bonus
>cuts. But is the sound better than the Nonsuch version?
>
>My ears or stereo is not that sophisticated, so I would like to hear
>some opinions on the subject matter of remastering.
>
>P.S. Oh, and for the last three or four months I have been
>purchasing the remasterd Miles stuff. The sound is incredible - but
>how was the sound on the original release of the CD's?
>--
I do a fair amount of mastering, and I'd say, generally, if something
has been remastered with some care, it's worth getting the new
version. Especially if the original CD was released in the first few
years of CD's. The Miles discs are a good example, the original CD's
rushed to market in the early years sounded pretty atrocious. The new
remasters, as you mention, sound pretty fantastic. The same is true
of the Jimi Hendrix catalog, the original CD reissues were just
horrible.
Digital sound technology has gotten much much better in the past few
years, and we engineers are getting a few clues about using it. If
the original analog recording is done well, there's a lot of detail
that earlier generations of analog to digital converters just missed.
I don't think you need sophisticated ears or technology to tell when
something sounds good, it just does.
- --
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Trenkel New and Improv Music
http://www.newandimprov.com improv@peak.org
Now Available: Minus: Dark Lit
"This is music all-consuming in its beauty and power"
-Jake TenPas OSU Daily Barometer
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:15:09 -0800
From: skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: eno & remastering
on 3/5/02 9:59 AM, Dave Trenkel at improv@peak.org wrote:
>> Is it worth buying something you have already if it has been
>> remasterd?
I think it's conditionally worth it. Obviously, to have KIND OF BLUE
playing at the right speed is a big improvement.
But a great many things came out on CD sounding okay in the first reissue --
espec stuff that wasn't on major labels, where it just seemed like there was
a rush to digitize everything as quickly as possible.
Probably the most dramatic digital facelift went to Stevie Wonder's TALKING
BOOK. Arguably the greatest album of the seventies, and arguably the
worst-sounding great album ever made. the recent remastering job unmasked
so much that we never heard before, like the fact that Stevie was using his
left hand as well as his right on many of those parts. I would say
regaining about 50% of the performance makes it worth it.
skip h
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:13:50 -0500
From: "Zachary Steiner" <zsteiner@butler.edu>
Subject: RE: eno & remastering
We just got a nice surround sound stereo set up in our basement and I
tried listening to some of my favorite albums. To appease my parents
the first CD I played was Dark Side of the Moon. I was appalled by the
hiss that was so noticeable on the good speakers; it almost obscured
some of the quieter sections. The same problem with Bitches Brew (I
have the Box Set). I've found that I can't listen to older albums (no
matter how well they were remastered) on that stereo. I have to stick
to my shelf system or my computer speakers with sub to listen to music
recording more than 10-15 years ago.
I'm a fan of the new Big Gundown. It sounds better and I love the bonus
tracks, especially the string pieces and the Ballad of Hank McCain. I
think that it's more because of the extra tracks than the fidelity.
Zach
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 10:28:27 -0800
From: "carlos torres" <nipomoone@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: breakin' up is hard to doo(wop).
What was the name of that blues single Thora Birch's character in Ghost
World fell in love with?
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 19:32:27 +0100 (CET)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es>
Subject: Fwd: RE: eno & remastering
HI,
Zach wrote:
>
> I'm a fan of the new Big Gundown. It sounds better
> and I love the bonus
> tracks, especially the string pieces and the Ballad
> of Hank McCain. I
> think that it's more because of the extra tracks
> than the fidelity.
Certainly. Or maybe i'm deaf, but I didn't notice
anything special in the sound of the old tracks.
With regards to the extras, they're good of course,
but I don't think they're at the same level as the old
ones. Maybe too faithful to the originals in
comparison with the Nonesuch release, which I found
much more thought out.
Greetings,
EfrΘn del Valle (who'll see Marty Ehrlich's Song
Quartet in about three hours but missed the Tomahawk
show yesterday. You can't afford everything)
_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:39:34 -0800
From: "Benito Vergara" <bvergara@sfsu.edu>
Subject: RE: breakin' up is hard to do (wop).
The Blue Nile's "Hats" album I find deeply melancholy, as I do some tracks
from American Music Club's "Everclear" and "Mercury."
And when I was in college, huge chunks of The Smiths' "Strangeways, Here We
Come" and "The Queen Is Dead" was good for wallowing in. The titles alone
said it all: I Know It's Over, Last Night I Dreamt That Somebody Loved Me --
and then of course Unhappy Birthday to make you feel a little better.
And at a truly weak moment, a rather cheesy version of Burt Bacharach's "A
House Is Not A Home" (probably sung by the Anita Kerr Singers or something)
really sucker-punched me one time.
Later,
Ben
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 13:16:25 -0600
From: Joseph Zitt <jzitt@metatronpress.com>
Subject: Re: breakin' up is hard to doo(wop).
On Tue, Mar 05, 2002 at 10:05:20AM -0500, Nirav Soni wrote:
> Put on Morton Feldman's "For Phillip Guston." Open bottle of cheap alcohol.
> Repeat. Or, go swimming.
"For Phillip Guston" is so long that there's no need to repeat. But
the end, you'll either have passed out from the cheap booze or gotten
over it.
- --
| jzitt@metatronpress.com http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems |
| http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html |
| Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #808
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