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2002-02-17
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #787
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Monday, February 18 2002 Volume 03 : Number 787
In this issue:
-
RE: Connors recs
RE: dolphy weekend
Re: dolphy weekend
cello
Re: All about cello, Dolphy and Carter
Re: Gil and Jimi
Re: Gil and Jimi
Re: All about cello
Re: dolphy weekend
RE: Gil and Jimi
RE: Gil and Jimi
Cello
RE: cello
re: dolphy weekend
Re: dolphy weekend
Re: Gil and Jimi
Re: dolphy weekend
RE: dolphy weekend
RE: Gil and Jimi
Re: dolphy weekend
RE: Gil and Jimi
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:46:45 -0500 (EST)
From: "Jesse G. Kudler" <jkudler@mail.wesleyan.edu>
Subject: RE: Connors recs
Hi Matt,
I'm pretty sure that all the releases you mention are on electric
guitar. I think the only acoustic stuff that's really available is that
box set on Ecstatic Peace. The distinction you're making seems to be more
between his clean-toned elctric stuff and the records where he uses a
bunch of distortion.
- -Jesse
On Mon, 18 Feb 2002, Matthew W Wirzbicki (S) wrote:
> You can divide his releases into two basic catagories: acoustic and electric
> (simple enough?). He has a distinctive style in each. After that there's
> solo and duo release catagories. Personally I prefer the solo acoustic
> releases including:
>
> Evangeline (road cone)
> Portrait of a Soul
> Airs
> (in my basic order of preferance)
>
> These are pretty available while his solo electric stuff isn't. If you can
> find them some highlights are:
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:49:42 -0500
From: "Zachary Steiner" <zsteiner@butler.edu>
Subject: RE: dolphy weekend
When you say Mingus stuff, what albums do you mean? Which Mingus/Dolphy
collaborations are you thinking of? I really enjoy the Live at Antibes,
is this one of the ones are you thinking of or are you thinking of the
Mingus Big Band recordings?
Zach
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:08:14 -0800
From: skip heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: dolphy weekend
on 2/18/02 10:49 AM, Zachary Steiner at zsteiner@butler.edu wrote:
> When you say Mingus stuff, what albums do you mean? Which Mingus/Dolphy
> collaborations are you thinking of? I really enjoy the Live at Antibes,
> is this one of the ones are you thinking of or are you thinking of the
> Mingus Big Band recordings?
>
> Zach
>
>
All of the above, espec the Impulse stuff (the solo on "Goodbye Porkpie Hat"
is fantastic) and Antibbes. Also, the George Russell record with "'Round
Midnight".
sh
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:10:21 EST
From: Reaboi@aol.com
Subject: cello
- --part1_b0.2231ebe2.29a2ab9d_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Oscar Pettiford: Sextet, recently reissued on OJC.
Mingus on bass, Oscar on cello, great tunes, killing killing record.
Cheers,
Dave
- --part1_b0.2231ebe2.29a2ab9d_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>Oscar Pettiford: Sextet, recently reissued on OJC.
<BR>Mingus on bass, Oscar on cello, great tunes, killing killing record.
<BR>
<BR>Cheers,
<BR>Dave
<BR></FONT></HTML>
- --part1_b0.2231ebe2.29a2ab9d_boundary--
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:14:46 +0000
From: "thomas chatterton" <chatterton23@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: All about cello, Dolphy and Carter
>From: "Remco Takken" <r.takken@planet.nl>
>The 'out there' sessions from later that year surely contain some gems, but
>I would never go as far as saying they sound great. Ron Carter's playing is
>so overtly blazing out of tune from the second song on, that I hate it
>every
>time I try to sit the record out.
Dolphy played on another 'out of tune' 'cello jazz date, the Original
Ellington Suite from Chico Hamilton, with Nate Gershman(?) bowing, some nice
soloing from Eric...
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:22:59 +0000
From: "thomas chatterton" <chatterton23@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Gil and Jimi
>From: "Zachary Steiner" <zsteiner@butler.edu>
>To: <zorn-list@lists.xmission.com>
>Subject: Gil and Jimi
>Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:36:22 -0500
>
>I listened to a little bit of the Gil Evans Orchestra to Jimi Hendrix.
>What the? I didn't get it at all. How is that a tribute to his music?
That LP was a big disappointment, mainly because John Abercrombie is the
worst possible choice for a guitarist to play on those tunes. But Hendrix
was in discussion with Gil before he died about doing an album of big band
arrangements, and that certainly sounded promising. Otherwise people should
really just leave Hendrix's music alone, it's never worked, and when you get
something like Kennedy ("don't call me Nigel!") doing it, the results are
truly pathetic.
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:28:04 -0500
From: James Hale <jhale@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Gil and Jimi
I've heard passable covers by others, including String Trio of New York, and I
still love the version of "Little Wing" by Duane Allman, Eric Clapton & co.
more than the original... though nowhere near as much as Hendrix's live version
originally released on "In The West".
James
thomas chatterton wrote:
> >From: "Zachary Steiner" <zsteiner@butler.edu>
> >To: <zorn-list@lists.xmission.com>
> >Subject: Gil and Jimi
> >Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:36:22 -0500
> >
> >I listened to a little bit of the Gil Evans Orchestra to Jimi Hendrix.
> >What the? I didn't get it at all. How is that a tribute to his music?
>
> That LP was a big disappointment, mainly because John Abercrombie is the
> worst possible choice for a guitarist to play on those tunes. But Hendrix
> was in discussion with Gil before he died about doing an album of big band
> arrangements, and that certainly sounded promising. Otherwise people should
> really just leave Hendrix's music alone, it's never worked, and when you get
> something like Kennedy ("don't call me Nigel!") doing it, the results are
> truly pathetic.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
> -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:37:09 -0800
From: "s~Z" <keithmar@msn.com>
Subject: Re: All about cello
And for that ECM pretty cello, there's always David Darling.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 19:37:49 +0000
From: "thomas chatterton" <chatterton23@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: dolphy weekend
>From: skip heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
He was the David Sanborn of the avant-garde -- the guy
>with spotless technique who could play with anyone and fit in completely
>while retaining his own style (this is props -- I like Sanborn on other
>people's records) Downside: Dolphy repeats himself a lot.
You're treading on dangerous ground here, mentioning Dolphy and Sanborn
together! While I understand your analogy, I think you're selling Dolphy a
little short, is repetition necessarily a downside? And is he actually
repeating note for note each time? I don't hear that with Dolphy's playing,
but again I'm not a musician transcribing his solos, which may work in my
favour as a listener. After all 'repetition is the soul of creation', is it
a downside with say, James Brown? NRBQ? Chuck Berry? And Dolphy
unfortunately died when he was only 36, my feeling is he was poised to
become a major player (yes, he was a major player anyway, but given 10 more
years?) , and perhaps even surpass 'Trane on the 'spiritual jazz quest'.
Some of my favourite Dolphy playing is from the '61 Europe tour with
Coltrane, especially his alto on Impressions, and the gorgeous bass clarinet
take on Naima...
_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:40:01 -0500
From: "Zachary Steiner" <zsteiner@butler.edu>
Subject: RE: Gil and Jimi
Why was Abercrombie chosen then? Was he the only one
available/interested?
Zach
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:32:10 -0500
From: "Sean Westergaard" <seawes@allmusic.com>
Subject: RE: Gil and Jimi
> Otherwise people should
>really just leave Hendrix's music alone, it's never worked, and when you
get
>something like Kennedy ("don't call me Nigel!") doing it, the results are
>truly pathetic.
there are a couple albums that breathe new life into Hendrix's music (not
that it really needs it..) One is by Fredy Studer/Christy Doran/Amin
Ali/Django Bates/and Phil Minton ?!?. they don't necessarily remain
faithful to the originals, and Minton is hilarious.
the other one is by Pinguin Moschner (tuba & electronics) and Joe Sachse
(guitar, played with odd implements like screwdrivers).
fun avant-jazz versions of tunes you know & love.
sean
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:42:24 EST
From: Samerivertwice@aol.com
Subject: Cello
Arcado String Trio, with Ernst Reijsenger. Challenging but not too noisy or
out there.
Tom
______________________________________________________________________
Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately,
and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music."
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 14:36:27 -0500
From: "Sean Westergaard" <seawes@allmusic.com>
Subject: RE: cello
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
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I just wanted to second the endorsement of Rufus Cappadoccia. I saw him
play years ago with Orange the Blue, where he was fantastic; and again last
fall with the Paradox Trio where he was absolutely transcendant. the guy is
a monster with technique to spare.
sean
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<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN =
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wanted to second the endorsement of Rufus Cappadoccia. I saw him =
play=20
years ago with Orange the Blue, where he was fantastic; and again last =
fall with=20
the Paradox Trio where he was absolutely transcendant. the guy is =
a=20
monster with technique to spare.</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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class=3D418283419-18022002></SPAN></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D418283419-18022002>sean</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
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face=3DTahoma></FONT> </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></FONT></BODY></HTML>
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- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:57:56 -0800
From: skip heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: re: dolphy weekend
on 2/18/02 11:37 AM, thomas chatterton at chatterton23@hotmail.com wrote:
>> From: skip heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
>
> He was the David Sanborn of the avant-garde -- the guy
>> with spotless technique who could play with anyone and fit in completely
>> while retaining his own style (this is props -- I like Sanborn on other
>> people's records) Downside: Dolphy repeats himself a lot.
>
> You're treading on dangerous ground here, mentioning Dolphy and Sanborn
> together!
I think Sanborn is one of the great sidemen whose playing everyone knows. I
was using him as an analog not out of any stylistic thing but because he's
been effective on so many different types of records, be they Paul
Butterfield or Joe Bataan. And I feel he's criminally underrated as a
player.
> While I understand your analogy, I think you're selling Dolphy a
> little short, is repetition necessarily a downside? And is he actually
> repeating note for note each time?
Yes. If need be, I can show you where.
> I don't hear that with Dolphy's playing,
> but again I'm not a musician transcribing his solos, which may work in my
> favour as a listener.
It always does. Bill Evans swore this much as a general rule.
> After all 'repetition is the soul of creation', is it
> a downside with say, James Brown? NRBQ? Chuck Berry?
In James' case, it became a downside after a certain point. I've never
heard it in NRBQ, except certain periods in their live presentation on
certain tunes that they'd obviously played too often. In Chuck's case, some
of the Chess album cuts and pretty much any of what he recorded during his
Mercury years are a total example of that, whereas the Chess singles seem
each to be invested with a character of their own fr record to record
(although I am pretty sure this has more to do with the lyrics).
> And Dolphy
> unfortunately died when he was only 36, my feeling is he was poised to
> become a major player (yes, he was a major player anyway, but given 10 more
> years?) , and perhaps even surpass 'Trane on the 'spiritual jazz quest'.
I agree, because he seemed to be investigating -- successfully -- a wide
variety of contexts, which I think is always the "onto my next phase" sign:
restlessness.
skip h
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:06:41 +0000
From: "thomas chatterton" <chatterton23@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: dolphy weekend
>From: skip heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
>
>I think Sanborn is one of the great sidemen whose playing everyone knows.
>And I feel he's criminally underrated as a player.
He is, but his own recordings have never helped his cause! That said, isn't
there a session from a few years ago with Sanborn blowing 'out'? I can't
remember it just now...
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:08:39 -0500
From: James Hale <jhale@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Gil and Jimi
Actually, Abercrombie is not the main guitarist on the recording, and
was not the main player in Gil's band at the time. It was Ryo Kawasaki.
A guy called Keith Loving was also on guitar in the band.
The main thing with Gil throughout his post-war bandleading life was
that he *hated* the business, turned down work constantly if it didn't
interest him and never had any money. The musicians he used were usually
those who really wanted to work with him (so would do it very cheaply)
or those who were cheap to begin with.
So, though Gil may have been wiser to get McLaughlin or someone else who
had more of a feel for Hendrix's music from a guitarist's perspective,
he worked with who he had.
Also, I think he wanted to avoid simply covering Jimi's music; that was
the whole idea behind creating arrangements of the music and using
strong reed players like George Adams and Arthur Bythe as the soloists.
James
Zachary Steiner wrote:
> Why was Abercrombie chosen then? Was he the only one
> available/interested?
>
> Zach
>
> -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:16:35 -0800
From: skip heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: dolphy weekend
on 2/18/02 12:06 PM, thomas chatterton at chatterton23@hotmail.com wrote:
>> From: skip heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
>>
>> I think Sanborn is one of the great sidemen whose playing everyone knows.
>> And I feel he's criminally underrated as a player.
>
> He is, but his own recordings have never helped his cause!
You'll notice I said sideman and not leader.
As for more adventurous Sanborn, try his ANOTHER HAND.
sh
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:06:38 -0500
From: "Sean Westergaard" <seawes@allmusic.com>
Subject: RE: dolphy weekend
>He is, but his own recordings have never helped his cause! That said, isn't
>there a session from a few years ago with Sanborn blowing 'out'? I can't
>remember it just now...
the album was Another Hand and featured players like Joey Baron, Bill
Frisell, Marc Ribot, Charlie Haden, ARt Baron, Dave Tronzo, and (so as not
to offend Skip by leaving them out) Al Anderson & Terry Adams. I'm not sure
i'd call it 'blowing "out"', but it's certainly well off the beaten path
from his other releases as a leader. There's even a VU cover!
to Sanborn's credit, does anyone else remember him playing with the Arkestra
on Night Music? He and Marshall Allen did a freakout session and Sanborn
held his own.
sean
- -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 20:21:10 +0000
From: "thomas chatterton" <chatterton23@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Gil and Jimi
>From: "Sean Westergaard" <seawes@allmusic.com>
>
>there are a couple albums that breathe new life into Hendrix's music (not
>that it really needs it..) One is by Fredy Studer/Christy Doran/Amin
>Ali/Django Bates/and Phil Minton ?!?.
New life? I beg to differ. Cutesy, yes. Novelty value, certainly for a
couple of listens. Eventually, I found all these attempts
ultimately...pointless. If I want to hear Jimi, I listen to him. And I
would sure love to hear a group like Studer/Doran/Ali/Bates/Minton play
original material. Otherwise...
_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:25:36 -0800
From: skip heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: dolphy weekend
on 2/18/02 12:06 PM, Sean Westergaard at seawes@allmusic.com wrote:
> to Sanborn's credit, does anyone else remember him playing with the Arkestra
> on Night Music? He and Marshall Allen did a freakout session and Sanborn
> held his own.
>
> sean
That was pretty great. Also, Sanborn and Stanley Turrentine playing "Sugar"
was great.
sh
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:24:23 -0500
From: "Sean Westergaard" <seawes@allmusic.com>
Subject: RE: Gil and Jimi
>If I want to hear Jimi, I listen to him.
me too.
>New life? I beg to differ. Cutesy, yes. Novelty value, certainly for a
>couple of listens.
i think 'cutesy' is a bit much, but is there anything wrong with novelty
value? I found this release infinitely more interesting than any
rock-oriented tribute to Hendrix that I've heard.
>Eventually, I found all these attempts ultimately...pointless. -
More or less pointless than another take of 'Round Midnight'? or 'Lonely
Woman' for that matter?
sean
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #787
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