ftp.xmission.com/2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar/ftp.xmission.com/pub/lists/zorn-list/archive/v03.n786

Internet Message Format | 2002-02-17 | 21KB

From: [e-mail] (Zorn List Digest)
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #786
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: [e-mail]
Errors-To: [e-mail]
Precedence: bulk


Zorn List Digest       Monday, February 18 2002       Volume 03 : Number 786



In this issue:
-
       brotzmann + Haino + Hano
       Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music
       Odp: All about cello
       Odp: Chromosomos "Ultra Project"
       Odp: All about cello
       Re: All about cello, Dolphy and Carter
       Re: All about cello, Dolphy and Carter
       Connors recs
       RE: All about cello, Dolphy and Carter
       Gil and Jimi
       RE: Gil and Jimi
       Re: Gil and Jimi
       Re: Johnny Ray
       RE: Connors recs
       Re: brotzmann + Haino + Hano
       Re: Johnny Ray
       Johnnie Ray
       Re: All about cello
       Re: All about cello
       Re: Johnny Ray
       dolphy weekend

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 22:19:14 -0800
From: "serge dautricourt" <[e-mail]>
Subject: brotzmann + Haino + Hano

Shadows: Live in Wels (DIW)
Has anybody heard this cd? any reviews?

serge

_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 23:02:21 -0800
From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music

on 2/17/02 11:03 PM, Joseph Zitt at [e-mail] wrote:

> I think what he's saying is that while the proliferation of boy bands
> doesn't surprise him, he's struck by the number of "alternative" groups
> that seem all to have been cut from the same roll of flannel.

They all sounded pretty similar to me as well.  Then again, so did the boy
bands.  But what comment do we expect fr the guy who wrote "Rollers Show"?

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:12:47 +0100
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: All about cello

> Also reccomendations for "purely" mainstream use of cello outside the
> classical world, will be very valuable. Is there anything like a jazz
> quartet with soloing cello????

Dolphy's 'out threre' features, besisdes Georges Duviver on bass, Ron Carter
on cello. A great record. I've heard people saying that Dolphy was much
better as sideman then as leader. I've got to of his solo discs, and they
are both very good, with 'out to lunch' being IMO the best jazz record that
was not recorded by miles davis.
Marcin


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:30:55 +0100
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Chromosomos "Ultra Project"

>Marcin- heard about this outfit?  Copied thios from the RMP newsgroup.
>Sounds interesting...

No, i never heard them! It's the second time i learn about the existance of
polish bands that may well be very interesting. Adam Pieronczyk, who's
credited on sax as guest, is one of the best sax players here, and his
presence may indicate, taken with what the excerpt was saying, that the
thing might well be interesting. I, for one, got interested, and will try to
check them out.
    I must warn you, however, that one should take the jazz review from
'gazeta wyborcza' with a grain of salt. Their jazz colums are hosted by a
guy called piotr iwicki. I had a dubious pleasure to play with him on a jam,
and it's been pretty catastrophic - although I must say that my most
succesful musical projet was born out of the troubles on that jam. It
doesn't necessarily jeopardize his reputation as a journalist. His reviews,
however, do the job. If i remeber correctly, he was the guy to diss
completly a masada trio-kokhba-quartet show, with  - take care here - stress
on the fact that greg cohen hardly knows to play. It's not that his opinions
are necessarily false, it's just that his judgements of quality stand in
random relationship with the quality itself.
Marcin


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:33:44 +0100
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: All about cello

Zachary Steiner <[e-mail]> on dolphy's 'out there':

> nifty interplay.  I'm sorry that I can't remember the cello player's
> name and I don't have the case with me.

I bet you were surprised  that you forgot the name when you checked it out
finally (that's ron carter). A great disc. Got it on a new vinyl reedition,
and it sounds great.
Marcin


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 13:14:38 +0100
From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: All about cello, Dolphy and Carter

>
> Zachary Steiner <[e-mail]> on dolphy's 'out there':
>
> > nifty interplay.  I'm sorry that I can't remember the cello player's
> > name and I don't have the case with me.
>
> I bet you were surprised  that you forgot the name when you checked it out
> finally (that's ron carter). A great disc. Got it on a new vinyl
reedition,
> and it sounds great.
> Marcin
>
Outward Bound was in fact the first Prestige album Eric Dolphy did (in april
1960), not Out There (but with those titles one could easily get confused).
Ben Tucker played bass on that first one BTW.

The 'out there' sessions from later that year surely contain some gems, but
I would never go as far as saying they sound great. Ron Carter's playing is
so overtly blazing out of tune from the second song on, that I hate it every
time I try to sit the record out.

When a solo cello is out of tune, it immediately stops blending with the
other instruments. In orchestras, slight pitch differences make for a
natural 'chorus' effect, which is why orchestras sound so magistral. In a
solo spot, the sound is just wrong.

Other albums where Carter played cello with Dolphy (none of them without
their own problems either...):
Ron Carter/Eric Dolphy quintet: Where?
Mal Waldron: The Quest.

Then, a badly sounding experimental tape floats around with Dolphy/ Carter
duets, some overdubbed. I have heard a small part of this on the LP 'Naima'.
It's weird, bassclarinet and bass only. Ron Carter apparently doesn't want
this tape to be released officially.

On Eric Dolphy/ Booker Little Quintet's Far Cry, Ron Carter plays bass only,
just as the Candid LP Out Front by trumpeter Booker Little.

Regards, Remco


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 07:24:00 -0500
From: "David Beardsley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: All about cello, Dolphy and Carter

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>

> The 'out there' sessions from later that year surely contain some gems,
but
> I would never go as far as saying they sound great. Ron Carter's playing
is
> so overtly blazing out of tune from the second song on, that I hate it
every
> time I try to sit the record out.
>
> When a solo cello is out of tune, it immediately stops blending with the
> other instruments. In orchestras, slight pitch differences make for a
> natural 'chorus' effect, which is why orchestras sound so magistral. In a
> solo spot, the sound is just wrong.

I was always under the impression those quarter-tones are intentional.


* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 15:25:43 +0100 (CET)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Connors recs

Hi,

I've heard lots of appraisal to Loren Mazzacane
Connors (probably wrong spelling) lately. Any
recommendations? I've only seen the Hatnoir release.
How is it?

Thanks in advance.

Best,

EfrΘn del Valle

_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:32:51 -0500
From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: All about cello, Dolphy and Carter

This is sounding like our Ornette discussion all over again...

Zach



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:36:22 -0500
From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Gil and Jimi

I listened to a little bit of the Gil Evans Orchestra to Jimi Hendrix.
What the?  I didn't get it at all.  How is that a tribute to his music?

Zach



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:34:04 -0500
From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Gil and Jimi

Gil was a huge fan of JImi.  That album was not entirely successful , in my
opinion (Sanborn lays down the cheese on Angel), but I guess every concert
and album following that 74 date had at least one Hendrix tune on the set
list.  Check out the 'live at Sweet Basil' albums on Grammavision for some
hotter versions of Hendrix material by the Gil Evans orchestra

sean

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Zachary Steiner
Sent: Monday, February 18, 2002 9:36 AM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: Gil and Jimi


I listened to a little bit of the Gil Evans Orchestra to Jimi Hendrix.
What the?  I didn't get it at all.  How is that a tribute to his music?

Zach



- -



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:55:49 -0500
From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Gil and Jimi

Zach: You should check out Stephanie Stein Crease's new biography of Gil.
It's an exceptional book in all regards (the first time anyone has
uncovered a lot of the details about his early career) but really provides
a lot of insight into what attracted Gil to Hendrix and how Gil's
orchestra in the '70s and '80s expanded Hendrix's compositions.

And don't judge the Evans/Hendrix connection through the 1974 studio
album; listen to the live versions, especially the long version of "Little
Wing" from the '78 German tour or "Up From The Skies" (featuring Arthur
Blythe and George Adams) from the Royal Festival Hall show earlier in '78.

James

Zachary Steiner wrote:

> I listened to a little bit of the Gil Evans Orchestra to Jimi Hendrix.
> What the?  I didn't get it at all.  How is that a tribute to his music?
>
> Zach
>
> -


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:12:39 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Johnny Ray

Tosh:

Well, not a fan, but I have an interest in him along
with other peculiarities that existed in the music
biz. My mom first told me about the "Prince of Wails".

Outside of "Cry" I haven't been tempted to get any of
his so-called jazz work. I did read the second-rate
biography done on him a couple of years ago (got it as
a remainder), mostly to find out about Ray's strange
relationships - Dorthy Kilgallen(!) But the author had
so little knowledge of music --and an undisguised
hostility towards jazz -- that in the end in weakened
his own case by overinflating Ray's importance.

Ken Waxman


- --- Tosh <[e-mail]> wrote:
> Anyone here on the list a fan of Johnnie Ray?  He
> was the bridge
> between Sinatra and Elvis


=====
Ken Waxman
[e-mail]
www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos

______________________________________________________________________
Web-hosting solutions for home and business! http://website.yahoo.ca

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 09:17:16 -0700
From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Connors recs



>Loren Mazzacane
>Connors
>I've only seen the Hatnoir release.

that's the right spelling.  I'm one of the advocates...
You can divide his releases into two basic catagories: acoustic and electric
(simple enough?).  He has a distinctive style in each.  After that there's
solo and duo release catagories.  Personally I prefer the solo acoustic
releases including:

Evangeline (road cone)
Portrait of a Soul
Airs
(in my basic order of preferance)

These are pretty available while his solo electric stuff isn't.  If you can
find them some highlights are:

9th Avenue
Hell's Kitchen Park
In Twighlight
(in my basic order of preferance)

The hat noir is the duo with O'Rourke which is the first one I bought and
I'd recommend it.  I also have "two nights" with Alan Licht which I wouldn't
recommend starting with.  One night (the second on the recording) was better
than the other.  The O'Rourke album is consistantly good but I'd recommend
getting a feel for his solo stuff first.  There's also another hat noir
release which I haven't heard (I avoid Thurston Moore...you might differ).
Also, I prefer to avoid things with Suzanne Langile (sp?) - vocals (although
she does make an appearance on "hell's kitchen park")

I've heard good things about "Carmilites" (electric album) and "Little Match
Girl" (acoustic album)
check out www.fe.org if you haven't already....

oh, many of his releases are about 30 min long and some people find this
annoying.  IMO, at his best his albums turn into lengthy suites (as in the
compositional sense of a suite length)....an album comprised of 'shorts' but
which is certainly an album in itself (ala Evangeline).

curious to see other opinions,
Matt




- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:18:17 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: brotzmann + Haino + Hano

Serge:

You mean this wasn't a reunion gig for Hank Marvin and
the others? :)

Ken Waxman

- --- serge dautricourt <[e-mail]>
wrote:
> Shadows: Live in Wels (DIW)
> Has anybody heard this cd? any reviews?
>
> serge


=====
Ken Waxman
[e-mail]
www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos

______________________________________________________________________
Web-hosting solutions for home and business! http://website.yahoo.ca

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:21:21 -0500
From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Johnny Ray

Trivia for the day... Dave Holland once played bass with Johnny Ray.

Ken Waxman wrote:

> Outside of "Cry" I haven't been tempted to get any of
> his so-called jazz work.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 08:44:53 -0800
From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Johnnie Ray

Johnnie Ray I think is very much an under-rated music figure.  And
also quite unique in his 'pop' stance with going on stage with a
hearing aid (which he needed) and that he was very much of a R n' B
singer as well as a total pop figure.  In many ways he reminds me of
Bowie when he gets in his ballad mode. I recently purchased some of
his reissued material - and I thought all of them are  interesting.
For the beginner I suggest the one that Sony put out a couple of
years ago. Also his songwriting is quite quirky in that it deals with
natural elements to describe a particular mood.  Sinatra hated him (I
think more for personal reasons) but it seems Dyan was/is a fan.


- --
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 11:47:02 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: All about cello

I don't know what's going on here, I usually think of something and someone
else posts it. I'm very surprise to see that nobody has mentioned Diedre
Murray. She's an excellent cello player who (I think) figured prominently in
Threadgill's Sextett. She did an album with Fred Hopkins in 1994 called
Stringology on Black Saint. Not sure if it's still in print but it's very
good. All the compositions are Murray's and the band features Marvin Sewell
on guitar and Newman Baker on drums. Not too "out". I saw this band and at
the time Diedre said she was working on an ambitious piece based on the book
"They came before Columbus", don't know if she ever released this. It was
really cool to see Fred Hopkins, who is sadly no longer with us.
Also Akua Dixon (sp?) is a great cello player as well. I think she's married
to the great trombonist Steve Turre. Surely someone out there can do better
than me with recs for these two great players. What's up with you people? Of
course, as soon as I post this someone else will mention them. I must return
to lurking, I hate writing about music (however, I love reading about music
so keep up the good work everybody).

BTW- seconds on Fulton Street Maul. Everybody kicks major ass on this record
incl. Frisell.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 12:03:17 -0500
From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: All about cello

Akua Dixon is indeed married to Steve Turre. She's also a pretty good blues
singer. She was exceptional in a show I caught last summer by violinist
Christian Howes with Billy Hart on drums, Rez Abbasi on guitar and D.D.
Jackson's sometime bassist, John Geggie.


[e-mail] wrote:

> Also Akua Dixon (sp?) is a great cello player as well. I think she's married
> to the great trombonist Steve Turre.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:02:24 -0800
From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Johnny Ray

on 2/18/02 8:12 AM, Ken Waxman at [e-mail] wrote:

> I did read the second-rate
> biography done on him a couple of years ago (got it as
> a remainder), mostly to find out about Ray's strange
> relationships - Dorthy Kilgallen(!) But the author had
> so little knowledge of music --and an undisguised
> hostility towards jazz -- that in the end in weakened
> his own case by overinflating Ray's importance.

The author was Johnny Whiteside, who is not exactly hostile towards jazz but
does not seem to put it at the pinnacle of American accomplishment.  He's
phenomenal when writing about country music, however.  His bio of Rose
Maddox is a keep, and his recent LA WEEKLY cover story on Merle haggard was
one of the best I've read about Hag, who can be as difficult as he is
brilliant, and he is as brilliant as it gets.

skip h

np: Eric Dolphy, OUT TO LUNCH


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 10:20:53 -0800
From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: dolphy weekend

The mention of OUT TO LUNCH motivated me to pull out some Dolphy's for the
first time in a while, and I have come to believe I was right about Eric
Dolphy all along.  He was the David Sanborn of the avant-garde -- the guy
with spotless technique who could play with anyone and fit in completely
while retaining his own style (this is props -- I like Sanborn on other
people's records)  Downside: Dolphy repeats himself a lot.  I remember
transcribing stuff he played over blues and rhythm changes, and he was prone
to doing certain things over and over again (and in different keys -- the
curse of the obsessive practicer).

I pulled out the Mingus stuff, and I think that's overall the best place for
him.  Trane was so fixated on playing one kind of style by the time he
hooked up with Dolphy that, except for OLE, we don't get the widest view
possible of what Dolphy (or anyone else in the quartet +1) could do in a
small group context.  But Mingus really exploited every resource his players
and compositions had to offer.  BLUES & THE ABSTRACT TRUTH is a whole other
thing -- almost an omnibus of jazz soloing styles on the late fifties (with
Bill Evans taking every piano player through the university of how to play
behind such different horn players).

After listening to the Mingus stuff, OUT TO LUNCH actually sounds a little
mannered and intentional to me.  But that could be do to not enough
rehearsal (the tunes are hard), or the players just not yet being quite
comfortable with a new idiom.  It's hard to say anything about records that
bring a lot of new devices to the table.

Years ago, I had a Dolphy album on Everest where he played "Jitterbug Waltz"
on the flute, and I wouldn't mind having that again.  The exuberence of that
performance was just shy of Rahsaan Roland Kirk, and that's never a bad
thing.


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #786
*******************************


 To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to
       "[e-mail]"
 with
       "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest"
 in the body of the message.

 For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
 "help" to the same address.  Do not use quotes in your message.

 A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
 subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest"
 in the commands above with "zorn-list".

 Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in
 pub/lists/zorn-list/archive.  These are organized by date.

 Problems? Email the list owner at [e-mail]