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Zorn List Digest       Sunday, February 17 2002       Volume 03 : Number 785



In this issue:
-
       COBRA
       re: cello
       RE: All about cello
       Re: All about cello
       Re: Growing Old Gracefully (was Zorn List Digest V3 #782)
       Re: All about cello
       RE: COBRA
       RE: COBRA
       More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music
       Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music
       American Pop
       Re: All about cello
       Re: American Pop
       Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music
       Tom Cora
       Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music
       RE: All about cello
       Re: American Pop
       Re: American Pop
       Re: All about cello
       Re: All about cello
       RE: American Pop
       Re: American Pop
       Re: American Pop
       Love & Theft/Scheherezade
       Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music
       Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 09:28:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Brooker <[e-mail]>
Subject: COBRA

Hello-

Are there any other recordings of Cobra available
besides:

Tokyo Operations '94
Hat Art Double CD Live/Studio Cobra Performances
Upcoming Cobra Release on Tzadik next month.

Thanks, Mike

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - Coverage of the 2002 Olympic Games
http://sports.yahoo.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:53:26 GMT
From: "nors5379" <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: cello

please, please dont forget rufus cappadocia. he's most
notable as the celloist for matt darriau's paradox trio and
david fiuczynski's kif. a very dynamic player that in my
opinion is often over looked. he playing is extremely fluid
and its a mix between upright bass and typical cello
playing. check out his website at:
http://www.torsos.com/rufus/index.html

erik friedlander is also a good choice too. very similar in
style to rufus. his first topaz disc was one of my greatest
scores over break out of the used bins.
- -darryl.
Darryl Norsen
db.etree.org/shortround
[e-mail]
[e-mail]

if I were an easy bright boy I think
I would say something like, "cleaning
the fingernails with a dirty fingernail
file is a form of masterbation." and I
would probably win a scholarship, a grant,
the king's sword on shoulder and 14 hot
pieces of ass. -charles bukowski


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 13:44:31 -0500
From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: All about cello

Eric Dolphy's "Out There," I think it was his first album for Prestige.
Instead of a trumpet or another reed, he plays in the quartet with a
cello.  It's incredible.  There are lots of good cello solos and some
nifty interplay.  I'm sorry that I can't remember the cello player's
name and I don't have the case with me.

Zach



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 14:07:54 -0500
From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: All about cello

Ron Carter.
I've never been a big fan of Carter's cello work, though I love him as a
bassist.
I find his cello work a bit too "clean".

Also, I second the earlier vote for David Eyges. Check out the reissue of
his "Crossroads" with Byard Lancaster and Sunny Murray, or his gorgeous
work with Jeanne Lee.

James

Zachary Steiner wrote:

> Eric Dolphy's "Out There," I think it was his first album for Prestige.
> Instead of a trumpet or another reed, he plays in the quartet with a
> cello.  It's incredible.  There are lots of good cello solos and some
> nifty interplay.  I'm sorry that I can't remember the cello player's
> name and I don't have the case with me.
>
> Zach
>
> -


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 12:03:19 -0800
From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Growing Old Gracefully (was Zorn List Digest V3 #782)

on 2/17/02 7:48 AM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

> But what is the criteria...obviously, a 60 year old should not be making the
> music of a 20 year old, or try to (are you listening Mick Jagger), but on the
> other hand, while perhaps not making the most crucial music of their career,
> Neil Young and Keith Richards are truly devoted to their muse.
>
> Also, what age should we start at?  Is U2 old?  Is Beck?

My personal criterion for this -- and it's by no means scientific -- is 50.
That's how old my dad was when I graduated high school, and I noticed his
concerns becoming much different.

U2 have been in the big recording business for twenty years now.  To put it
another way, twenty years after "Please Please me" was 1983.  Think about
it.  Twenty years at the same job.

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 12:04:45 -0800
From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: All about cello

on 2/17/02 10:44 AM, Zachary Steiner at [e-mail] wrote:

Hank Roberts' playing on Tim berne's FULTON STREET MAUL is still an
eye-opener for me.

Also, a lot of people like Oscar Pettiford's cello stuff.

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 16:02:37 -0500
From: "Steve Smith" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: COBRA

There was a Knitting Factory release, 'John Zorn's Cobra Live at the
Knitting Factory' (KWF CD 124) that featured excerpts from a lot of
different Cobras, back when the game was played regularly by different
groups at the Knitting Factory. While you don't get an entire performance,
you do get some pretty fascinating snippets, including an all-vocal Cobra
that included Brutal Truth's Kevin Sharp, former Soul Coughing vocalist and
KF doorman M. Doughty, and pre-fame Jeff Buckley. Some of the other Cobras
on it are pretty interesting as well, including a clearly proto-Radical
Jewish Culture Cobra with David Krakauer, Frank London and Alicia Svigals,
and another one built around the core members of G-D Is My Co-Pilot. There
are also Jazz Passengers all over the place. (The performance by an
all-critics group, prompted by Kevin Whitehead and featuring the alto sax
stylings of Ira Gitler, seems to have gone undocumented, sadly.)

Zorn apparently hated the disc and fought long and hard to have it deleted.
I think he finally succeeded a couple of years ago and the catalog number
was reassigned to the Tom Cora collection he and Bruce Gallanter assembled.
But I'm sure you might be able to scare up the KF Cobra release if you
search a bit. Check Patrice's discography for complete details of the
contents.

Steve Smith
[e-mail]
NP - Ravel, 'L'enfant et les sortileges' (Opera D'Oro)


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 16:42:57 -0500
From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: COBRA

I got my copy on Gemm last year some time.  You could check there if you
are interested.

Zach



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:31:08 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music

Was there a gag order imposed about pop music discussions?

Here's more from Nick Lowe:

Q:  Do you keep up with your teen pop?

A:  "Those sort of boy band acts, that sort of thing has always been around.
The thing that I think is amazing is the hundreds of groups that have their
roots in Nirvana, and they are absolutely indistinguishable from one
another. And that music to me, especially after September 11th, it's so
redundant. In a stroke, it became totally dated and out-fashioned. Whereas
the boy band thing . . . we could do with a bit more of that; quite
refreshing and totally acceptable."

This kinda falls in line with the Britney discussion that hung around here
like a persistent cold.

Poppin' to Matthew Shipp's "Nu Bop,"
tom

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 14:44:58 -0800
From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music

on 2/17/02 2:31 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

> Was there a gag order imposed about pop music discussions?

Nick Lowe transcendeth all gag orders.

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:59:30 -0500
From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: American Pop

Since we are talking about pop singers, can we talk about classic pop
singers like Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennet, Bobby Darin, Dean Martin, Mel
Torme, et al? There is a special place in my heart for those cats.

Zach



- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 15:09:59 -0800
From: " A.VanValin" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: All about cello

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "Arthur Gadney" <[e-mail]>
Subject: All about cello



> ... a friend who stared playing the cello ...might ... lead in to the
> twisted world of "zornlist music".
>
>

[warning: no zorn content, no music recomendation, only a mild cautionary
tale]

Mark Salzman in his memoir "Lost in Place: Growing Up Absurd in Suburbia"
talks about - among other things - his painfully adolescent attempts to
pioneer 70's fusion cello. The image of a  sixteen year old playing along to
Return to Forever records and inventing (at least as far as he knew)
lap-style cello is going to be stuck in my mind for years. Akk.

Van





- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 23:42:29 +0000
From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: American Pop

>From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
>To: <[e-mail]>
>Subject: American Pop
>Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:59:30 -0500
>
>Since we are talking about pop singers, can we talk about classic pop
>singers like Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennet, Bobby Darin, Dean Martin, Mel
>Torme, et al?

AND Johnnie Ray, lest we forget!

_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:20:43 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music

- --part1_45.133b0006.29a1a2db_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 2/17/02 5:42:28 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:


> on 2/17/02 2:31 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:
>
> > Was there a gag order imposed about pop music discussions?
>
> Nick Lowe transcendeth all gag orders.
>

Amen to that.

So it goes,
tom

- --part1_45.133b0006.29a1a2db_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT  SIZE=2>In a message dated 2/17/02 5:42:28 PM Eastern Standard Time, [e-mail] writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">on 2/17/02 2:31 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Was there a gag order imposed about pop music discussions?<BR>
<BR>
Nick Lowe transcendeth all gag orders.<BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
<BR>
Amen to that.<BR>
<BR>
So it goes,<BR>
tom</FONT></HTML>

- --part1_45.133b0006.29a1a2db_boundary--

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 19:31:41 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Tom Cora

>Has he done anything which is more constantly melodic??

hmmmm. Well, he was an improvisor & a "new music" type fellow.
Having said that, you might find his work with CURLEW to be of interest. I
would recommend their albums:
A Beautiful Western Saddle
or
"Bee"

He was also on two albums by the US/Swiss band NIMAL, who were sorta an
RIO-leaning avant-progressive type band. Really good & some great melodies.
Try:
Voix A Surface

Hope this helps.

Steve

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 17:19:39 -0800
From: Jim Flannery <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music

[e-mail] wrote:

>
> [Nick Lowe:] The thing that I think is amazing is the hundreds of groups that have their
> roots in Nirvana, and they are absolutely indistinguishable from one
> another.

I would *dare* him to come up with two hundred names that fit this description
- -- I mean, that really fit the description: a) have roots in Nirvana and b) are
"absolutely indistinguishable". Anybody who would make such a statement isn't
qualified to make it.

All Asians look alike too, right?

- --
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Flannery                                             [e-mail]

          "It seems that the less respect you have for the legacy
           of jazz, the more likely you are to create it."
                                                      -- Steve Hanson
np: nothing
nr: John D'Agata, _Halls of Fame_


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 23:00:45 -0300
From: "Hugo Linares" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: All about cello

Julian wrote:

jazz/experimental stuff. I haven't checked out Erik Friedlander as leader,

- -------
You have to!
Erik Friedlander as a leader is interesting to say the least.
In no particular order: "Chimera" (Avan), "Topaz" (Siam Records), "Skin"
(Siam Records), "Grains of Paradise" (Tzadik).

Also I'd suggest to listen to Brazilian cellist and arranger Jaques
Morelenbaum on  Egberto Gismonti's"Musica de Sobrevivencia" (ECM) and
Sting's "...All this time" (A&M Records). His playing is superb but
underrated.

Later,

Hugo Linares
NP: NguyΩn LΩ _Bakida_ (Act). Quite a surprising recording.




- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:42:41 -0800
From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: American Pop

Anyone here on the list a fan of Johnnie Ray?  He was the bridge
between Sinatra and Elvis
- --
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 18:51:35 -0800
From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: American Pop

on 2/17/02 6:42 PM, Tosh at [e-mail] wrote:

> Anyone here on the list a fan of Johnnie Ray?

> Tosh Berman

Yes.

sh


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 22:24:38 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: All about cello

Dave Holland -- Life Cycle.

Tom

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 22:31:19 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: All about cello

Oh, and Buell Neidlinger -- Blue Chopsticks

Just got this for Xmas and love it.

You can buy it here:

http://www.k2b2.com/catalog.html

Tom

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 22:51:27 -0500
From: "josephneff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: American Pop

Hello,
      ...hey, let's add Louis Prima to the list. What (admittedly little)
I've heard from the guy was quite infectious. His version of "Just a
Gigolo"/"I Ain't Got Nobody" immediately comes to mind.

I remain...

Joseph

NP: Paul Bley Evan Parker Barre Phillips- "Sankt Gerold Variations" CD
NR: John Hawkes- "Lunar Landscapes"

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Zachary Steiner
Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2002 6:00 PM
To: [e-mail]
Subject: American Pop


Since we are talking about pop singers, can we talk about classic pop
singers like Frank Sinatra, Tony Bennet, Bobby Darin, Dean Martin, Mel
Torme, et al? There is a special place in my heart for those cats.

Zach



- -


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 22:51:37 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: American Pop

hoagy carmicheal - one of the great songwriters of his day -

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 20:04:11 -0800
From: skip heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: American Pop

on 2/17/02 7:51 PM, [e-mail] at [e-mail] wrote:

> hoagy carmicheal - one of the great songwriters of his day -
>
> -
>
... and, as with Johnny Mercer, one a of the more brilliant interpreters of
nis own material

sh


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 17 Feb 2002 23:24:20 -0600
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Love & Theft/Scheherezade

At first I didn't like "Love & Theft" as well as "Time Out of Mind," but I
got real addicted to the songs and have listened to it more than almost
anything else I picked up recently.  Every time they play "Mississippi" on
WWOZ, I get a taste for it again and have to get the album out. And every
song I hear on it, almost, I think "OK, this is my favorite," but then the
next one is also my favorite -- the mark of a great album. I still think
"Time Out of Mind" is the better-sounding album, and more haunting, but
"Love & Theft" has such a wonderful loose feel, and some of Dylan's most
acerbic lyrics.  One of my all-time favorite lines:  "Why don't you break
my heart one more time, just for good luck?"

Just got back from Dylan's concert about 15 minutes ago, actually.  It was
grand, plenty of songs from the new album, but I really missed John Jackson
and Bucky Baxter.  I was never very taken with Charlie Sexton.  He does a
much better job as a sideman than I'd have expected, but Jackson played
those wonderful fills that just seemed to bring something extra out of the
songs.  And Baxter was so earthy and elegant at the same time.  Even though
Sexton was at his best on the more rocking numbers -- they did a searing
'Watchtower" -- the Jackson-era lineup could actually rock harder.  I saw a
show in Daytona Beach that was almost punk at times.

Anyway, it was quite heartening to be in a row full of 20-somethings who
knew both old and new songs (even if I wished the girls next to me would
giggle less), and pretty cool to be thinking "Oh, play something from the
new one," when there are acts 10 years old where you think "God, just play
the old stuff."


I love "Scheherezade."  I love all those over-emotional Russian composers.

Parry



- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 00:59:59 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music

In a message dated 2/17/02 5:31:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< Here's more from Nick Lowe:

 Q:  Do you keep up with your teen pop?

 A:  "Those sort of boy band acts, that sort of thing has always been around.
 The thing that I think is amazing is the hundreds of groups that have their
 roots in Nirvana, and they are absolutely indistinguishable from one
 another. >>

Not quite sure I understand Nick's POV there.  Boy bands were already around
before members of Nirvana had their first tit for breakfast.

- --
=dg=

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 18 Feb 2002 01:03:11 -0600
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: More Aging Gracefully, Nick Lowe, and pop music

On Mon, Feb 18, 2002 at 12:59:59AM -0500, [e-mail] wrote:
> In a message dated 2/17/02 5:31:57 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> [e-mail] writes:
>
> << Here's more from Nick Lowe:
>
>  Q:  Do you keep up with your teen pop?
>
>  A:  "Those sort of boy band acts, that sort of thing has always been around.
>  The thing that I think is amazing is the hundreds of groups that have their
>  roots in Nirvana, and they are absolutely indistinguishable from one
>  another. >>
>
> Not quite sure I understand Nick's POV there.  Boy bands were already around
> before members of Nirvana had their first tit for breakfast.

I think what he's saying is that while the proliferation of boy bands
doesn't surprise him, he's struck by the number of "alternative" groups
that seem all to have been cut from the same roll of flannel.

- --
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| New book: Surprise Me with Beauty: the Music of Human Systems        |
|                            http://www.metatronpress.com/nj/smwb.html |
| Latest CDs: Collaborations/ All Souls  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #785
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