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2002-02-14
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #780
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Friday, February 15 2002 Volume 03 : Number 780
In this issue:
-
Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
RE: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
RE: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
RE: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
(no subject)
Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
RE: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
John Zorn and Mike Patton
Hazor, Marc Ribot tabs
Braxton?
Re: Braxton?
Fwd: Re: Braxton?
Game theory
Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
[none]
Re: Toy bands
Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 23:41:29 EST
From: Kaffa46@aol.com
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
i do you cunt
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 20:51:31 -0800
From: "Benito Vergara" <bvergara@sfsu.edu>
Subject: RE: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com
> [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Kaffa46@aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 8:09 PM
> -literature is an art form and entertainment is not (don't be
> technical about
> this)
I don't even know where to begin, so I won't.
> I believe the zorn list is not the appropriate setting for a
> discussion on
> how much somebody likes pink or britney spears
And I believe the Zorn list is the appropriate setting as well for
discussions on Little Feat, Booker T. and the M.G.'s, the Meters, Liberace,
Jan Hammer, Frank Sinatra, Led Zeppelin, Santana, Quincy Jones, Carole King,
and Roger Williams.
Come on, man! This is a list about a man who likes T. Rex *and* Feldman
*and* Bacharach *and* Maya Deren *and* Napalm Death *and* Messiaen *and*
Faith No More *and* Martin Denny *and* the Langley School Music Project.
Now which part of "avant-garde" were we supposed to discuss?
Later,
Ben
http://members.tripod.com/~tamad2/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 23:50:27 -0500
From: Rick Lopez <bb10k@velocity.net>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
on 02.02.14 11:41 PM, Kaffa46@aol.com at Kaffa46@aol.com wrote:
> i do you cunt
Upphhh, now you've lost control, c'mon now, get into the bathroom there and
get out your pill. Pour yourself a glass o' wawa, take a deep breath-- look
at yourself in the mirror, steady... now TAKE that pill, attaboy...
Phew,
(my wife behind me: "waht is it with you and pills???")
RL
http://www.velocity.net/~bb10k CRISPELL; IBARRA; Wm. PARKER; RIVERS; SHIPP;
D.S. WARE; COURVOISIER; ENEIDI; MANERI; MORRIS; SPEARMAN; THREADGILL;
WORKMAN; Beckett Eulogy; Baseball & the 10,000 Things; Time Stops; LOVETORN;
HARD BOIL; LUCILLE, a Reverential Journal of the Care of the Beloved Hag...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:06:03 -0800
From: skip heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
on 2/14/02 8:51 PM, Benito Vergara at bvergara@sfsu.edu wrote:
> Now which part of "avant-garde" were we supposed to discuss?
Let's try a few Z-safe names and weigh their anti-Top 40 cred:
Joey Baron? Nope -- huge Janet Jackson fan
Arto Lindsay? Nope -- huge Michael Jackson fan.
Burt Bacharach -- nope. Loves Jam/Lewis and Babyface
Mike Watt? Uh-uh. Loved the first few Madonna albums and made a big point
to point out that the bassline fr "Courage" was lifted fr "Like A Virgin".
Elliot Sharp? Likes old heavy metal. Borderline for him.
Dave Douglas? Majorly into the Beach Boys.
Uri Caine? Another big Janet fan. Even has the music book for CONTROL.
Glenn Gould? Loved Pet Clark, worshipped Barbra Streisand.
Sun Ra? Gave mad props to Bruce Springsteen as a live performer.
Carla Bley? Not since Linda Ronstadt appeared on ESCALATOR OVER THE HILL.
Fripp? Not after Daryl Hall was on EXPOSURE.
Ahh -- Zappa. Nope. Worked often and happily with the Monkees, Grand Funk,
and Alice Cooper.
It seems Charles Gayle is possibly the only safe choice of topic.
skip h
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 00:04:40 EST
From: Kaffa46@aol.com
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Upphhh, now you've lost control, c'mon now
it's just sarcasm in response to an obtuse remark
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 00:07:40 EST
From: Dgasque@aol.com
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
In a message dated Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:41:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, Kaffa46@aol.com writes:
> i do you cunt
>
> -
Kaffa46 is awarded this month's "intelligent post of the month" (2 weeks early!!) with this 4 word submission. Your engaging lexicon is to be saluted!
- --
=dg=
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 00:07:57 -0500
From: "Zachary Steiner" <zsteiner@butler.edu>
Subject: RE: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
>> Come on, man! This is a list about a man who likes T. Rex *and*
Feldman
*and* Bacharach *and* Maya Deren *and* Napalm Death *and* Messiaen *and*
Faith No More *and* Martin Denny *and* the Langley School Music Project.
You forgot cartoon music and commercial jingles a la Raymond Scott...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 00:13:11 EST
From: Dgasque@aol.com
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
In a message dated Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:30:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, Kaffa46@aol.com writes:
> to simply say that Shakira "can't sing" just shows you haven't listened to
> much of her music. The woman has a set of cords, without a doubt.
>
> i never said she can't sing i said i don't care if she can. I don't think
> that a talent translates into art. If you read my stament carefully and
> didn't jump to conclusions then you would realized this
>
Just to restate your comment...
<< I am saying that I don't
believe pink, britney spears, or shakira are worthy of any praise at all (i
don't give a shit if you think they can sing). >>
Hmmm...looks to me like you're saying just that...
- --
=dg=
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 00:19:31 EST
From: Kaffa46@aol.com
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Let's try a few Z-safe names and weigh their anti-Top 40 cred:
Joey Baron? Nope -- huge Janet Jackson fan
Arto Lindsay? Nope -- huge Michael Jackson fan.
Burt Bacharach -- nope. Loves Jam/Lewis and Babyface
Mike Watt? Uh-uh. Loved the first few Madonna albums and made a big point
to point out that the bassline fr "Courage" was lifted fr "Like A Virgin".
Elliot Sharp? Likes old heavy metal. Borderline for him.
Dave Douglas? Majorly into the Beach Boys.
Uri Caine? Another big Janet fan. Even has the music book for CONTROL.
Glenn Gould? Loved Pet Clark, worshipped Barbra Streisand.
Sun Ra? Gave mad props to Bruce Springsteen as a live performer.
Carla Bley? Not since Linda Ronstadt appeared on ESCALATOR OVER THE HILL.
Fripp? Not after Daryl Hall was on EXPOSURE.
Ahh -- Zappa. Nope. Worked often and happily with the Monkees, Grand Funk,
and Alice Cooper.
It seems Charles Gayle is possibly the only safe choice of topic.
- -I dont know if this was directed toward me but I can't sleep so i will give
my thoughts
your sarcasm is not valid. I think I stated that i didn't mind popular
music. I was just saying that there's a line you have to draw (don't ask me
where because I think with a little imagination, you can guess) this list is
not the place for certain entertainers. I admit that some in fact some
people are both entertainers and artists (many are actually) an example of
this could be the beach boys. the song writting and melody lines are both
interesting and dare i say catchy. But pink is not a fucking artist (I don't
care if some think it's catchy save that for a goddamn pink list)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 00:21:09 -0500
From: "Zachary Steiner" <zsteiner@butler.edu>
Subject: RE: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Lest we forget the multiple glowing references to Prince's musicianship
in Miles's autobiography. I think 14 pages or so.
"Prince is like church to gay guys" (Davis and Troupe 385).
Zach
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 00:26:46 EST
From: Kaffa46@aol.com
Subject: (no subject)
Hmmm...looks to me like you're saying just that...
- -i'm not, I am saying i don't care, not that they can't. I don't think
singing is something an individual should be given praise for (a job well
done maybe)
you can interpret it how you want to but i stand by my statement
ok she can sing but so can millions of others, should i bring up my neighbor
who gives vocal lessons in the next message
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:35:58 -0800
From: skip heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
on 2/14/02 9:19 PM, Kaffa46@aol.com at Kaffa46@aol.com wrote:
> I was just saying that there's a line you have to draw (don't ask me
> where because I think with a little imagination, you can guess) this list is
> not the place for certain entertainers.
Nobody shares a list of artists proper to this mailing list, and imagination
seems to vary from consumer to consumer. And I don't think anybody should
be made to draw lines to appease one guy. This list has become a place
where people discuss a lot of different things, and even sometimes argue.
Strangely enough, we've learned to love this policy. It has resulted in me
buying a lot of stuff I normally wouldn't (and if some of you feel
responsible for this, take up a collection and refund the 18 clams
VESPERTINE cost me).
Personally, the damn Pink song gets on my nerves. But, since this is a
place to discuss music (and Pink is some music I don't like), it makes its
way into the discussion. Maybe some people will check her out and like it
as a result of what people around here write about her record. if Zorn
consumers are among her constituency, she becomes a Zorn-related topic, just
as Bjork is, or Elvis Costello, or any number of other people with whom Zorn
does not work closely.
The thing to which I take the most offense is your profanity. The purity of
your personal aesttheitc is between you and your heart/mind, and I say, have
at it and love what you love. But the undignified lapse into profanity is
purely crude, and did not win you any allies, nor did it make you look smart
or funny.
skip h
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:37:13 -0800
From: skip heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
on 2/14/02 9:21 PM, Zachary Steiner at zsteiner@butler.edu wrote:
> Lest we forget the multiple glowing references to Prince's musicianship
> in Miles's autobiography. I think 14 pages or so.
>
> "Prince is like church to gay guys" (Davis and Troupe 385).
>
> Zach
>
I forgot that quote! That's unbelievable! Too much!
skip h
np: the sound of me on the floor shrieking with laughter
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:44:30 -0800
From: "Benito Vergara" <bvergara@sfsu.edu>
Subject: RE: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com
> [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of skip heller
> Sent: Thursday, February 14, 2002 9:06 PM
> Sun Ra? Gave mad props to Bruce Springsteen as a live performer.
Skip, you got to back that one up. Where and when did he say this?
This is almost as unbelievable as Bill Clinton being a Peter Brotzmann fan.
=)
Later,
Ben
http://members.tripod.com/~tamad2/
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 21:51:42 -0800
From: skip heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
on 2/14/02 9:44 PM, Benito Vergara at bvergara@sfsu.edu wrote:
> Skip, you got to back that one up. Where and when did he say this?
pp 315 of BRIGHT MOMENTS: THE LIFE & LEGACY OF RAHSAAN ROLAND KIRK by John
Kruth. I asked John about this, and he said that Ra had his wits about him
and did not seem to be joking.
skip h
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 00:52:19 EST
From: SonataPathetique@aol.com
Subject: John Zorn and Mike Patton
I was wondering if anyone could tell me how the collaborations between Mike
Patton and John Zorn began. I know that Zorn was on the first Mr. Bungle
album, so I guess what I am asking is how Zorn became involved with Mr Bungle
in the first place.
Seth
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 02:12:53 -0500
From: Patrick Jenkins <pjenkins@interlog.com>
Subject: Hazor, Marc Ribot tabs
Hi everyone,
Would anyone have guitar tabs for Marc Ribot's solo on Hazor on Zorn's
Zevulun (Circle Maker)? It's great and I would like to explore it on my
guitar. I would appreciate it if anyone has some info on this. Email me
privately if that is best. If you have tabs on Ribot's work on Bar Kokhba
and Fimworks 8, I would appreciate that as well.
Thanks.
Patrick Jenkins
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 23:21:54 -0800
From: "John Schuller" <superbadassmofo@hotmail.com>
Subject: Braxton?
I only have one Anthony Braxton Disc "Seven Compositions" any others I
should check out?
_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 23:32:00 -0800
From: skip heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Braxton?
on 2/14/02 11:21 PM, John Schuller at superbadassmofo@hotmail.com wrote:
> I only have one Anthony Braxton Disc "Seven Compositions" any others I
> should check out?
>
For his playing, I recommend CIRCLE IN PARIS (with Chick, Altschul, and
Holland). That record still sounds really fresh after the 6,000,000 times
I've heard it.
skip h
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 08:52:50 +0100
From: Alban Jacques <alban.jacques@ibmp-ulp.u-strasbg.fr>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Braxton?
To listen the best i think, try "for alto", my favourite
a
>
> > I only have one Anthony Braxton Disc "Seven Compositions" any others I
> > should check out?
> >
>For his playing, I recommend CIRCLE IN PARIS (with Chick, Altschul, and
>Holland). That record still sounds really fresh after the 6,000,000 times
>I've heard it.
>
>skip h
>
>
>-
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 19:33:30 -0800
From: Clint Nation <cenns@shaw.ca>
Subject: Game theory
Did any of Mr. Zorn's Cobra projects turn out according to the set
plan. Given the axioms of rational choice, the axioms that Mr. Zorn
set-up, one should be predict the outcome of the musical interaction.
As we know people do not always act rationally and this would lead to
the piece not working out according to the "set" plan. Note: Rational
chaoice would be determined by the axioms set up by Mr. Zorn.....i.e.
"It is rational to prefer the destruction of the universe to the
scratching of one's finger"-Hume. If so what peices actually work out
and are there any writings explaining the logic and axioms used?
A new member,
XQUIQ
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 23:56:36 -0800
From: Jim Flannery <newgrange@sfo.com>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Dgasque@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated Thu, 14 Feb 2002 11:41:58 PM Eastern Standard Time,
> Kaffa46@aol.com writes:
>
> > i do you cunt
>
> Kaffa46 is awarded this month's "intelligent post of the month" (2 weeks
> early!!) with this 4 word submission. Your engaging lexicon is to be saluted!
Actually, it'd make a nice basis for a permutation poem ala Gysin, wouldn't it?
I Do You Cunt
Cunt You Do I
Do I Cunt You
You Do I Cunt
I Cunt You Do
etc....
- --
- --------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jim Flannery newgrange@sfo.com
"It seems that the less respect you have for the legacy
of jazz, the more likely you are to create it."
-- Steve Hanson
np: Ptolemaic Terrascope #31 cd
nr: John D'Agata, _Halls of Fame_
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 02:32:45 -0800 (PST)
From: nelson saarni <nsaarni@yahoo.com>
Subject: [none]
- --0-1700777008-1013769165=:72232
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
is mr john zorn ever going to tour the west coast?
- ---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Got something to say? Say it better with Yahoo! Video Mail
- --0-1700777008-1013769165=:72232
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
is mr john zorn ever going to tour the west coast?<p><br><hr size=1><b>Do You Yahoo!?</b><br>
Got something to say? Say it better with <a href="http://rd.yahoo.com/mail_us/tag/?http://promo.yahoo.com/videomail/">Yahoo! Video Mail</a>
- --0-1700777008-1013769165=:72232--
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2002 11:22:38 +0100
From: "dekater" <dekater@worldonline.nl>
Subject: Re: Toy bands
The Beresford/Bennink Cd is on ICP 037, it was distributed by BVHAAST but
seemed to be sold out.
Children's toys are also used by Palinckxdrummer Alan Purves, who in fact is
thinking of making an album by only using this kind of things. On "O Amor
Natural" you find music to a dance-and poetry performance of Handtheater, a
group which performs erotic poems of Carlos Drummond in sign language.
Purves uses: ghost tubes, plastic frog, plastic crickets, scotie drum,
whurlie wurlies (tubes), jingle bells, lama nails, wee moothie, wee
tambourines, plastic woodblock, penny whistles, lielow pumps with whistles,
bodhran, various cymbals, doyoyo, turntin, wee bell, happy apple.
Jan Luyben
>
> Dutch guitar player Jacques Palinckx uses children's microphones for cheap
> reverb on stage. Palinckx takes a very perverse twist by also using
dildo's
> and vibrators, mostly in the same solo. Ofcourse, it is hard to point out
> precisely, where on his records he does exactly this little trick, but
weird
> guitar playing is all over his cd output (perhaps also available through
> Cadence)...
>
> Regards, Remco Takken
>
>
> -
>
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 14 Feb 2002 22:20:28 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es>
Subject: Re: SHAKIRA! [was Re: Re: Britney]
Hi,
I see that there's still some z-listers who don't know about the existance
of the delete button, so discussed some weeks ago.
I really think it's healthy to have such diversified threads on any field
although this one about Shakira & co has looked at the top-40 "shelves". So
what? How many top-10 hits did the herein appraised Burt Bacharach get
during his career? There's obviously an abyss between these
so-Grammy-awarded Latin pop-stars and the enlightening gems of BB, but there
should be room for everyone in a list where you're discussing NC on Monday
and Tuesday turns to Hank Williams. And that's precisely one of the charms
of this list, IMHO. Surprises come up almost on a daily basis. I mean,
someone making love to Derek Bailey's solo albums?!... That's priceless.
Best,
EfrΘn del Valle
n.p: Tortoise "MIllions NOw Living Will Never Die"
> Your absolutely right. Why are we giving attention to these no talent
hacks.
> I know that the subscribers to this list are looking for new musical
avenues
> but this is fucking ridiculous. Modern pop is not a musical form, it is
> commercial refuse (next you will be praising then new milk carton for its
> striking aesthetic quality). I you are really that desperate for new
music
> then maybe you should ask some people (on this list perhaps) for some
advice.
>
>
>
> -
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #780
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