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2002-02-09
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #770
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Sunday, February 10 2002 Volume 03 : Number 770
In this issue:
-
Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers/ BRITNEY/ JAZZIZ
Re: Sex Music (JZ?)
Re: Sex Music
Re: Take the Coltrane/Erotic music
Re: sex music recoms
Re: let's talk about sex, baby
Re: Zorn as Miles????????
Re: Sex music recoms
RE: boring old miles
Re: Zorn as Miles???????
RE: Coltrane
Re: Zorn as Miles????????
Re: Miles/"Jack Johnson"
Re: boring old miles
Re: Miles/"Jack Johnson"
sex music
Re: sex music
nordine?
Stinkholin'
test of time
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 21:50:36 -0800
From: Fred Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers/ BRITNEY/ JAZZIZ
> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
- --MS_Mac_OE_3096136236_63324_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
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skip heller
BTW, whats up with JAZZIZ ? I dont read jazz publications often, but i
picked up a recent issue with Diana Krall on the cover. She appears to me
to be the Britney Spears of jazz.... although i'll give her the benefit of
the doubt that she CAN actually sing....
- -Jody
One night in 1997, Joey Baron and I were hanging out together in the lobby
of the hotel where all of us playing the festival were staying, and there
was a jam session going on as we were speaking. This beautiful, Wynton
Kelly kind of piano playing came out of nowhere, and we both looked up at
the stand to see who it was, and it was -- yep -- Diana Krall, and Joey said
something to the effect of "If people heard her do that on one of her
records, she might not be as popular, but she'd get a whole other kind of
respect." And he's probably right, just as we will probably never find out.
skip h
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<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers/ BRITNEY/ JAZZ=
IZ</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
skip heller<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2">BTW, whats up with JAZZIZ ? I dont read ja=
zz publications often, but i picked up a recent issue with Diana Krall on th=
e cover. She appears to me to be the Britney Spears of jazz.... althou=
gh i'll give her the benefit of the doubt that she CAN actually sing....<BR>
<BR>
- -Jody</FONT> <BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
One night in 1997, Joey Baron and I were hanging out together in the lobby =
of the hotel where all of us playing the festival were staying, and there wa=
s a jam session going on as we were speaking. This beautiful, Wynton K=
elly kind of piano playing came out of nowhere, and we both looked up at the=
stand to see who it was, and it was -- yep -- Diana Krall, and Joey said so=
mething to the effect of "If people heard her do that on one of her rec=
ords, she might not be as popular, but she'd get a whole other kind of respe=
ct." And he's probably right, just as we will probably never find=
out.<BR>
<BR>
skip h
</BODY>
</HTML>
- --MS_Mac_OE_3096136236_63324_MIME_Part--
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 21:53:47 -0800
From: Fred Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Sex Music (JZ?)
> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
- --MS_Mac_OE_3096136428_74858_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
skip heller
Given the depth and breadth of musical knowledge of this group, I bet we
could come up with quite a long list of make-sweet-love-down-by-the-fire
recommendations.
Anyone?
John Coltrane/Johnny Hartman
just about any Caetano Veloso album
Curtis Mayfield ballads
Issac Hayes -- HOT BUTTERED SOUL
Les Baxter -- SACRED IDOL
skip h
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Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: Sex Music (JZ?)</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
skip heller<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2">Given the depth and breadth of musical knowledge=
of this group, I bet we could come up with quite a long list of make-sweet-=
love-down-by-the-fire recommendations.<BR>
<BR>
Anyone?<BR>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2"><BR>
</FONT>John Coltrane/Johnny Hartman<BR>
just about any Caetano Veloso album<BR>
Curtis Mayfield ballads<BR>
Issac Hayes -- HOT BUTTERED SOUL<BR>
Les Baxter -- SACRED IDOL<BR>
<BR>
skip h
</BODY>
</HTML>
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- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 22:19:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Ryan Novak <ryan_novak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Sex Music
In another thread I was going to say how Machine Gun
is a record that has stayed fresh over time (fresh
enough for me to still hear how powerful it is though
I discovered it many years after the fact), and now
perhaps it could also make for some very kinky sex
music as well.
Also I thought I'd add that I remember Courtney Love
saying that she'd had a particularly enjoyable
"session" with Cobain while listening to Trout Mask
Replica I guess. Okay, that's the last time I chime
in on sex music- I'm from the mid-west and this talk
makes me uncomfortable.
- ---Ryan Novak
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 00:19:32 -0600
From: parry@macconnect.com
Subject: Re: Take the Coltrane/Erotic music
>From: Dan Given <dlgiven@altavista.com>
>Subject: Re: take the coltrane
>
>> From: "Kurt Gottschalk"
>> Subject: take the coltrane
>>
>> while everyone certainly does have a right to their > opinions, not
>>getting coltrane? i don't get it.
>> COLtrane? what are guys talking about? JOHN
>> colTRANE! criminey. it's like not getting bach. or
>> led zeppelin. or, or
>
>I find this comparison quite funny, because i love Coltrane, but Bach (and
>almost all pre-20th C. classical music) bores the hell out of me, and
>hearing Led Zeppelin makes me run from the room screaming.
Zeppelin I love, when I'm in the right mood, but Bach bores me, too. It's
all too regular and orderly. Sometimes I think he and Mozart were
anticipating bookstore chains and the need for music to browse by... I am
sure this is some personal failing, but give me those messy Russian
composers, anyday. Or good old Beethoven or Brahms. Actually, I liked Bach
and Mozart OK when I was a kid, maybe I just got sick of them, since
classical radio seems to lean real heavily on them in the Top 40.
Erotic music: Harold Melvin & the Bluenotes, Marvin Gaye, Luther Vandross,
Prince in his heyday, Donny Hathaway, Serge Gainsbourg (when he's not
trying too hard to be sexy -- "Anthracite" is much sexier than "Je t'aime
(moi non plus)). Astor Piazzola. Caetano Veloso. Nino Rota. Definitely
Nino Rota.
Parry
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 22:30:11 -0800
From: "Nori Valdez" <tropicalia05@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: sex music recoms
> >Anything by Prince. That man IS sex incarnate.
>
>Sorry, I believe you've mistook him for someone else: MARVIN GAYE!
>
>Let's Get It On...
- --> amen to that, brotha...
did everyone forget about barry white??? yeah, baby, yeah!
albums also an integral part of any horny grooves soundtrack: dexter gordon
"ballads", philip glass' "metamorphoses", radiohead's "ok computer", kenny
dorham's "una mas". tasty.
cheers,
nori
_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 02:16:14 EST
From: Dgasque@aol.com
Subject: Re: let's talk about sex, baby
In a message dated 2/9/02 6:50:25 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ecstasymule@hotmail.com writes:
<< loren mazzacane connors (though the discs are all too short) >>
Which screams the need of a 5-CD changer...at the minimum, wouldn't you say?
;-)
OMG, what have I started?
- --
=dg=
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 02:16:15 EST
From: Dgasque@aol.com
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles????????
In a message dated 2/9/02 4:44:09 PM Eastern Standard Time,
zsteiner@butler.edu writes:
<< Bitches Brew is sex music. KoB: most definitely not. I've heard KoB
played at restaurants, doctors' offices, and on THE WEATHER
CHANNEL!!!!!!!!!! Though, I will confess that I have never heard it in
an elevator. That's probably because I prefer taking the steps while
thinking about Bitches Brew :) >>
Well yeah...but how many _BB_-type women do you come across, outside the ones
in films?
Punners, smile away.
- --
=dg=
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 02:16:11 EST
From: Dgasque@aol.com
Subject: Re: Sex music recoms
In a message dated 2/9/02 6:35:03 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ari.hoste@skynet.be writes:
<< One good advise: never try Pierre Henry's "Variations pour une Porte et un
Soupir". Roar with laughter guaranteed, but what a hell of a "turn-off". >>
The _Merzbox_ falls into this category too...at least, *I'd* be scared of the
woman that threw this on before she slipped out of that teddy.
- --
=dg=
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 03:05:12 -0500
From: "josephneff" <jneff@visuallink.com>
Subject: RE: boring old miles
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com
[mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Kurt Gottschalk
Sent: Friday, February 08, 2002 3:48 PM
To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com
Subject: boring old miles
what records have best stood the test of time?
Hello,
....well, after a few days to mull it over, here's a few.
the 1st four Velvet Underground albums
Capt. Beefheart- "Trout Mask Replica"
Pere Ubu- "The Modern Dance"
Albert Ayler- "Spiritual Unity" and "Bells"
John Coltrane- "Interstellar Space"
The Hampton Grease Band- "Music To Eat"
Alexander "Skip" Spence- "Oar"
John Fahey- "Requia"
Brian Eno- "Taking Tiger Mountain By Strategy"
"The Anthology of American Folk Music"
Joseph Spence- Folkways Recordings 1958
Hound Dog Taylor and the Houserockers- "Genuine Houserockin' Music"
Minutemen- "Double Nickels' and ""Ballot Results"
Minor Threat- 1st two seven inches
Mission of Burma- Ryko collection
I remain...
Joseph
NP: Blurt- s/t LP
NR: John Barth- "the Floating Opera"
- -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 00:10:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Gabriel Drummer <gabriel_drummer@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles???????
> << I must confess too: I could never get into
> Sun Ra.
> And I'm not making any efforts to dig him because
> "I
> should". >>
>
> Wow. None? I must admit a preference to his
> "composed/big-band" stuff over
> the free-blowing albums. I'm not dissing you in
> the least, but I'd think
> that anyone into any kind jazz could find a few Ra
> albums to enjoy out of his
> vast oeuvre. Have you tried the early Delmark-label
> albums? Classics, those.
Thanks for the tip. I think the main reason I
don't dig Sun Ra's music is because he's done way too
many albums and the ones I've heard are maybe the
"incorrect" ones (for me, that is). I'll check the
stuff you recommend; let's see what happens. Thanks
again.
Gabe
np: Bar Kokhba (Zorn content)
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 03:29:13 -0500
From: "josephneff" <jneff@visuallink.com>
Subject: RE: Coltrane
Hello,
...music critic Richard Meltzer has openly expressed disdain for McCoy
Tyner's playing, so you're not alone there. Me, I like 'em okay, though I
can say that Tyner is easily my least highly esteemed member of the Classic
Quartet. At times he can feel a little "plugged in". At other times his
playing moves wonderfully. So, anyone want to express favor for Alice over
McCoy?
I remain...
Joseph
NP: Blurt- s/t LP
NR: John Barth- "The Floating Opera"
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com
[mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of Zachary Steiner
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2002 7:35 PM
To: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Coltrane
While talking about Coltrane, I thought about my own feelings about the
man. While I like him, I think his sound of his later period was more
successful with only another instrument playing, be it bass or drums. I
am growing to dislike whole quartet playing on Live in Japan and Stellar
Regions. It could be the piano, but I'm not sure. Am I just crazy or
does any one else concur.
Listening to Interstellar Space,
Zach
- -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 00:27:54 -0800 (PST)
From: Gabriel Drummer <gabriel_drummer@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Zorn as Miles????????
> > I must confess too: I could never get into Sun Ra.
> And
> > I'm not making any efforts to dig him because "I
> > should".
> Sun Ra is an example of where making too many
> records will turn even the
> most receptive listener off. But he's done so much
> great stuff that I can't
> help but think you'll find some stuff in there that
> you'll go for. I only
> came to him via his doo-wop singles, then I kind of
> went, "Oh...".
I see my case is maybe not lost. I'll check the
recommended Sun Ra stuff. Wish me luck. Thanks for the
tip.
Gabe
>And I agree with you about MILESTONES. That record
> still excites me down to
> my toes like almost no other.
np: guess what? Milestones... Dr. Jekill, a 12-bar
trades masterclass between Trane and Cannonball.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 09:30:25 +0100
From: duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: Miles/"Jack Johnson"
Fred Heller a =E9crit :
>
>
> Nobody's mentioning my fav Miles of that period -- JACK JOHNSON, which is =
a
> great straight-ahead playing record record=2E Not straight-ahead jazz, mi=
nd
> you=2E Just straight-ahead no frills playing=2E
>
> skip h
>
Re: Jack Johnson: I'm a little bothered by the production/editing, the "In a
silent way"quote(s)("It's about that time", I think) being spliced back in
there=2E A real creative let down, IMHO=2E Because of the film? (why is it n=
ever
shown, BTW?)
Also I think there's some talking by Miles about Jack Johnson in there=2E
Finally I don't somehow find the music adventurous at all compared with
"B=2EBrew", "Fillmore" or "Corner"=2E Not enough interaction/ambiguity betwe=
en
rythm section and solists=2E No exceptional soloing or rythmic section playi=
ng,
despite the hot names: could have been adequate L=2EA=2E studio musicians=2E
Only one section fascinates me: the James Brown-like ostinato guitar riff by
McLaughlin: great stuff=2E But nothing much is done with it=2E Nobody else p=
icks up
on it in any way, there's not a single tiny variation of it by Mc L=2E--imag=
ine
what Hendrix (ca=2E Band of Gypsies) would have done with it=2E=2E=2EAnd als=
o very
derivative: it's J=2EB=2E music, could have been done by him=2E Don't see en=
ough
Miles in there=2E Feels a little out of place, like a quote, unrelated to th=
e
previous texture and material=2E Why not a Led Zep riff next time?
Do you or anyone have an idea where the riff comes from? Surely not Miles
himself=2E So very likely Mc Laughlin=2E But no credit's given to him=2E Was=
it
lifted out of some classic J=2EB=2E I never heard?
Best,
DY=2E
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 00:37:13 -0800
From: Fred Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: boring old miles
skip heller
> Joseph Spence- Folkways Recordings 1958
How did I forget THAT? He's like the Shaggs -- t never gets old cuz it only
belongs to itself.
skip h
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 00:39:58 -0800
From: Fred Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Miles/"Jack Johnson"
skip heller
> Finally I don't somehow find the music adventurous at all compared with
> "B.Brew", "Fillmore" or "Corner".
Neither do it, but the grrove and the rhythm section power -- plus I think
the solos are great -- always pins me. I always though BBrew and FILLMORE
would have been better single records. A lot of the stuff on each takes too
much time to develop for me (he ducks). I blame my punk rock attention span
for this.
skip h
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 10:22:43 +0100
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl>
Subject: sex music
I can just think of one title: Miles's 'Get up with it'. Really sensual.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 10:16:30 +0100
From: duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: sex music
Marcin Gokieli a =E9crit :
> I can just think of one title: Miles's 'Get up with it'=2E Really sensual=
=2E
>
In particular the track "Rated X"=2E=2E=2E
(IMHO a masterpiece 10-20 years ahead of its time=2E A real freak!)
DY=2E
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 15:03:28 -0500
From: "Andrew" <ahorton@vt.edu>
Subject: nordine?
Does anyone else find Ken Nordine to be so incredibly fucking gimmicky and
stupid?
Just wondering.
"Word jazz....more like nerd dad!"
andrew
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 04:12:49 -0500
From: "Andrew" <ahorton@vt.edu>
Subject: Stinkholin'
My favorite music to put on while fucking:
My Bloody Valentine- "Loveless"
Yo la tengo- "painful"
Zorn- "the gift" and "Filmworks X"
Serge- "Comic Strip" (nothing sets the mood like
"Shabamm......pow......plop.....WHIZZZ!")
Les Baxter- "The exotic moods of....."
DJ Shadow- "Endtroducing"
Television- "Marquee Moon"
anything by Jobim
asdjkfl;djkl;
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 10:44:34 +0100
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl>
Subject: test of time
> what records have best stood the test of time?
Igor starvinsky - 'l'histoire du soldat'. Still sounds extremely fresh,
could be written in '90s by some Bley.
Davis - Filles, in a silent way. beyond jazz, not rock yet.
the beatles - i'm not a big fan of that band, but they sound really fresh
today.
Eno - early pop albums + eno/byrne discs. But those records need a CD
mastering badly.
Zorn - torture garden, absinthe, spillane, godard. just great.
Dolphy - out to lunch. what an album.
King Crimson - discipline. They really made it with that one.
music thet DOES sounds outdated:
the big looser in this category is IMO the 'prog rock'. I listened to yes's
'fragile' reecently - i liked the beginning, the first songs was really OK,
but then when they came up with those 'brahms on synths' etc... even early
crimson seems dated. Another big looser: Davis/Gil Evans colaborations.
Great music, but from the 50s/60s. same goes for davis/trane, although to a
lesser extent.
Another big looser is free jazz. As we agreed here ;-), all those early
ornette, or late coltrane sound as if they had something important to say
about what the world is like, but lacking ink+ paper decided to play some
music that would express their thoughts. Same goes for serial muisic, maybe
except webern - those short pieces do sound interesting today.
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #770
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