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2002-02-09
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #769
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Saturday, February 9 2002 Volume 03 : Number 769
In this issue:
-
Re: Sex Music (JZ?)
Sex music recoms
Re: Sex music recoms
retakethecoltrane
let's talk about sex, baby
RE: Sex music recoms
Coltrane
Re: Luttenbachers again
Channeling Miles
Odp: Zorn as Miles????????
Odp: Previte
Re: Sex Music (JZ?)
RE: Sex music recoms
Odp: boring old miles
Odp: Miles
naming -- decision in paradise
Sonny Rollins recommendations
about Ethiopiques
Re: take the coltrane
Re: take the coltrane
Sex music
Re: Miles
Re: take the coltrane
Re: Coltrane/Dolphy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 23:47:27 +0100
From: duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: Sex Music (JZ?)
>
> Samerivertwice@aol=2Ecom a =E9crit :
>
>>
>> Given the depth and breadth of musical knowledge of this group, I
>> bet we could come up with quite a long list of
>> make-sweet-love-down-by-the-fire recommendations=2E
>>
>> Anyone?
>
>
> Steve Reich's "Music for 18 musicians=2E
> Miles Davis' "In a silent way"=2E
> Miles Davis "On the corner"
> Aretha Franklin's greatest hits
> Elliott Sharp's "Autaria"
> Fran=E7ois Couperin "Le=E7ons de Tenebres"(by William Christie & Les Arts
> Florissants)
> Morton Feldman "Piano and string quartet"
>
> DY=2E
>
>>
>>
>>
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 23:56:14 +0100
From: duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Sex music recoms
Steve Reich "Music for 18 musicians"
Miles Davis "In a silent way"
Miles Davis "On the corner"
Aretha Franklin's greatest hits
Marvin Gaye's greatest hits
Elliott Sharp's "Autar"
Francois Couperin "Le=E7ons de T=E9n=E8bres"(William Christie/Les Arts
Florissants)
Morton Feldman "Piano and string quartet"
Enjoy,
DY=2E
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 00:35:27 +0100
From: Ari <ari.hoste@skynet.be>
Subject: Re: Sex music recoms
One good advise: never try Pierre Henry's "Variations pour une Porte et un
Soupir". Roar with laughter guaranteed, but what a hell of a "turn-off".
Ari
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 23:39:40 +0000
From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <ecstasymule@hotmail.com>
Subject: retakethecoltrane
me:
> > while everyone certainly does have a right to their > opinions, not
>getting coltrane? i don't get it.
> > COLtrane? what are guys talking about? JOHN
> > colTRANE! criminey. it's like not getting bach. or
> > led zeppelin. or, or
dan:
>I find this comparison quite funny, because i love Coltrane, but Bach (and
>almost all pre-20th C. classical music) bores the hell out of me, and
>hearing Led Zeppelin makes me run from the room screaming.
me:
ok, i sorta spilled that without realizing i'd have to explain myself, but
i've had this idear (probably alluded to here in the past) of certain
creators who reach the pinnacle of their form, whether or not it's my
favority styling. to say that hitchcock, sinatra, holliday, fitzgerald, are
masters of their form just seems, to me, obvious. hitchcock is the easiest
example. i enjoy his flix, they're not my faves, but they're so damn
hitchcocky. they're perfectly realized, effortless. that's the idea.
coltrane and led zep, too.
i'm scared of having to defend this. perhaps i should talk about sex to
distract everyone.
_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 23:49:51 +0000
From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <ecstasymule@hotmail.com>
Subject: let's talk about sex, baby
best sex music, following a thread.
the necks (although not necessarily the one titled "sex")
chopin (preludes, esp in the a.m.)
prince (the new one, despite the doofy segues, "sign," "lovesexy," "black,"
"come")
coltrane ("ballads," 'crescent' from "live in japan")
kahil el'zabar ("golden sea," "alika rising")
loren mazzacane connors (though the discs are all too short)
taj mahal/toumani diabate
john lee hooker ("alone" on tomato)
mingus ("moanin")
threadgill
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 19:31:14 -0500
From: "Zachary Steiner" <zsteiner@butler.edu>
Subject: RE: Sex music recoms
Anything by Prince. That man IS sex incarnate.
Zach
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 19:35:24 -0500
From: "Zachary Steiner" <zsteiner@butler.edu>
Subject: Coltrane
While talking about Coltrane, I thought about my own feelings about the
man. While I like him, I think his sound of his later period was more
successful with only another instrument playing, be it bass or drums. I
am growing to dislike whole quartet playing on Live in Japan and Stellar
Regions. It could be the piano, but I'm not sure. Am I just crazy or
does any one else concur.
Listening to Interstellar Space,
Zach
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 16:50:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Ryan Novak <ryan_novak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Luttenbachers again
>Apologies for the long post. You make good points,
>and
>some funny ones, and
>I'm not trying to pick a fight. Anyway, the
>Luttenbachers stuff isn't
>perfect, but it does raise some good questioins as to
>the current state of
>(free) jazz/improv, and just what (not all of, but a
>good portion of) it is
>really SAYING these days.
Well, I was being hard on Weasel because he's been
hard on others, but mostly because I do want to like
the guy and his music. His attitude is a little too
contrary for me though, and it makes me wonder if he
really is seeking a personal sound as furiously as he
could be, or if he's more busy bashing others and
complaining a lot.
>>Maybe if Lovens and Gustafsson wore more stage
>>makeup,
>>Weasel wouldn't consider them as predictable.
>
>I doubt that's it. He has called Marduk (black metal
>band) predictable, or
>something to that effect, and they wear enough face
>paint to cover a small
>tool shed.
Well, I was just joking about how I guess the
Luttenbachers have gone through some theatrical phases
with costume and make-up themselves.
>right, exactly. tell anyone they're great for long
>enough and it is bound to
>make them complacent. note that he has also said many
>positive things about
>lovens, et al. in the past
Yeah, I know he must like those guys enough to even
bother to criticize their shortcomings as he sees
them, but like I said, I feel the same way about him.
>Ridiculous hyperbole, sure, but it comes with the
>territory when you're
>making music such as this. Take it with a grain of
>salt, just like those
>Tzadik obis or the grand proclamations of AUM
>Fidelity-type jazz supporters,
>AMM/Erstwhile boosters,
Well, that's true- I guess they get away with it
better because the artist themself isn't usually
writing the proclamations- but they may as well be,
you're right. But still, Weasel yapping about blood
on the stage and world domination ceases to be very
descriptive after a while y'know? :~)
>But, to say that Weasel is all energy and nothing
>but,
>well, the new album
>on Troubleman has some really well-written and
>intricate composing. My only
I believe the one show I saw them play contained
pieces from this album. I liked it, but I did get
tired of it after a while. But then I tend to not
enjoy composed performances as much as good improvised
ones- I'd probably enjoy it more on record. It seems
he's heading more into that composed area too, which
is kinda disappointing. I'm still curious about the
improvising sax-bass-drum trio version of the
Luttenbachers (which is what I was hoping to see at
the show I attended). I think there's at least a
couple records of that group- would you recommend any
of these?
- ----Ryan Novak
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 17:41:09 -0800
From: "s~Z" <keithmar@msn.com>
Subject: Channeling Miles
>>>I think it's obvious (and all of Davis'
biographers agree) that he did not consider his work in the mid-
to
late-'50s an embarrassment.<<<
Well, the passion with which he expressed those sentiments, and
the whole demeanor of his presentation when talking about that
music, is far more convincing than any motherfucking biographer's
interpretation of Miles and his opinions.Those asshole biographers
can kiss my fucking ass.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 03:06:46 +0100
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl>
Subject: Odp: Zorn as Miles????????
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Zachary Steiner <zsteiner@butler.edu>
> what I was hearing, but oh did I like it. I later went to explore
> earlier Miles, but it doesn't really do it for me like the electric
> years.
Am I the only one to think think of 'filles de killimajaro' as one of the
few masterpieces of the last century (comparable to, let's say 'The rake's
progress', 'Lhistorie du soldat', etc ;-)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 03:08:59 +0100
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl>
Subject: Odp: Previte
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Sean Westergaard <seawes@allmusic.com>
> i just played a tune from it on my radio show this morning that was really
> nice, but that's all i've heard. Ray Anderson, Marty Ehrlich, Wayne
Horvitz
> (piano), Bobby and I'm spacing on the bass player. solid line-up,
atrocious
> cover art.
> sean
What label it's on?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 03:01:38 +0100 (CET)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Ricardo=20Campillo?= <houseofklang@yahoo.es>
Subject: Re: Sex Music (JZ?)
> Given the depth and breadth of musical knowledge of
> this group, I bet we
> could come up with quite a long list of
> make-sweet-love-down-by-the-fire
> recommendations.
>
> Anyone?
>
> Tom
>
>-----------------------------------------------------
Some variated "sex" recommendations:
- -Isaac Hayes "Hot Buttered Soul"
- -Ornette Coleman "Body meta"
- -Coltrane "A love supreme"
- -Nine inch Nails "Closer to God"(Single)
- -Tom Waits "Blue Valentine"
- -Tool "Undertow"
- -Ravi Shankar "Sound of Sitar"
- -Arvo PΣrt "De Profundis"
- -Debussy "Images"
- -P.J.Harvey "To Bring You My Love"
Regards for everybody.
Ricardo.
_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 02:13:49 +0000
From: "thomas chatterton" <chatterton23@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Sex music recoms
>From: "Zachary Steiner" <zsteiner@butler.edu>
>
>Anything by Prince. That man IS sex incarnate.
Sorry, I believe you've mistook him for someone else: MARVIN GAYE!
Let's Get It On...
_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 03:26:47 +0100
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl>
Subject: Odp: boring old miles
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Kurt Gottschalk <ecstasymule@hotmail.com>
> what instrumentalists use words the best? (it's the writer in me.) i
> nominate threadgill and tim berne as best at naming
> records/compositions/bands.
i won't discuss names, but the use of spoken words on Spillane and Godard is
fabulous. it's extremely inspiring for my own music / 'poetry' work.
But, of course, the absolute top is Stravinsky/ Auden&Kallman 'The rake's
progress'. The way music intrferes with the stroy, and the way the music is
written with the style of the libretto is just unbelievable.
Marcin (who stopped listening the entire 'rake' by gardiner/lso/ terfel/
von otter/ etc. every two days at least last holiday)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 03:32:31 +0100
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl>
Subject: Odp: Miles
duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr> wrote
> May I suggest checking out a couple rarely mentioned albums?
> -"Live at the Plugged Nickel" (live, 1965, with Shorter, Tony Williams,
> Hancock, Carter at their burningest...real hot and inspired).
well... one of the miles releases that i listen to the least. Can't see how
one colud compare to shorter/corea/holand/dejohnette bands (and i have never
heard any later live recordings of the quitet with williams carter, and
hancock - i'm looking forward to this moment)
> -"On the Corner" (studio, 1972, with McLaughlin, Cobham, Corea,
> etc...also red hot and inspired, but while the first album is pure jazz,
> this, y'all, is nasty, eclectic psycho-fonk).
Oh yes. A great one. But the two other studio '70s releases - 'big fun' and
'get up with it' - may be even better. That one is more of an album - it
comes from ytwo sessions.
>I think he searched for radical simplicity all his life and found it in
> a different way with the James Brown-influenced electric works (68-75):
> no more chord changes, more music!
That may be true.
Marcin
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 18:55:11 -0800
From: mwisckol@ocregister.com
Subject: naming -- decision in paradise
I share the affection of other posters for Threadgill's titles. Seething
with innuendo.... And I dig many of Sun Ra's too.
But near the top of my list of all-time titles is Frank Lowe's "Decision in
Paradise."
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 19:08:56 -0800
From: mwisckol@ocregister.com
Subject: Sonny Rollins recommendations
Newk: My favorite is A Night at the Village Vanguard. Runner up would be
Freedom Suite. I also dig his playing with Monk (Brilliant Corners) -- I
think Monk influenced Newk's focus on theme and variation, all those
practice sessions they had in the early '50s when Monk didn't have his
cabaret card....
As for song titles -- was that actually a thread?! -- I dig Frank Lowe's
"Decision in Paradise."
Martin
np. J.A. Granelli and Mr. Lucky
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 00:30:36 -0300
From: "ROBERTO J. LOPEZ" <rlopez@sinectis.com.ar>
Subject: about Ethiopiques
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0042_01C1B1CA.288B1C00
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi:
I have Volume 3.It's very good record,too.
Roberto
=20
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charset="iso-8859-1"
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<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hi:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I have Volume 3.It's very good =
record,too.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Roberto</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2> </FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2></FONT> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
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- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 11:57:57 +0800
From: Sibree/Wilkes <numbats@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: take the coltrane
Hi,
Years ago Dudu Pukwana said to me that everyday one should "listen"
to Coltrane, it was a necessity of life. I agreed with him! I have
listened nearly every day
since I saw Coltrane as a 17 year old schoolboy in England in 1961.
regards,
Billy
>
>aawwww, now Kurty... easy kiddo. It's not that I don't "get" it, it's just
>that he has yet to light the proverbial fire under my ass. I don't know
>why... I don't know when... Idunno. I *am* perhaps too focussed down any
>more.
>
>I just don't know,
>RL
- --
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Feb 2002 11:58:34 +0800
From: Sibree/Wilkes <numbats@iinet.net.au>
Subject: Re: take the coltrane
Hi,
I will put my cards on the table. I am nearly 58, my tastes are wide
and varied. I never understood the fuss about Led Zeppelin - I
thought that they were as overblown,overweight and doughy as their
name. Cream yes, Hendrix yes. Zep - good guitarist but they were
shite!
As for Zorn now? Too old and too fat?
regards,
Billy
>while everyone certainly does have a right to their opinions, not
>getting coltrane? i don't get it. COLtrane? what are guys talking
>about? JOHN colTRANE! criminey. it's like not getting bach. or led
>zeppelin. or, or alfred hitchcock or something.
>
>seriously, reevalute. fuh...
>
>BALLADS/JOHNNY HARTMAN/A LOVE SUPREME/LIVE IN JAPAN (esp
>"Crescent")/all of the VILLAGE VANGUARD stuff (but especially LIVE
>AT THE VILLAGE VANGUARD AGAIN)/KULU SE MAMA/EXPRESSION/INTERSTELLAR
>SPACE/DUKE ELLINGTON?
>
>it's, it's like i don't even know you anymore (*sniff*)
>
>kurt
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Join the world=92s largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
>http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>-
- --
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 9 Feb 2002 23:39:13 EST
From: SonataPathetique@aol.com
Subject: Sex music
Don't forget Nathaniel Merriweather presents Lovage - Music to make love to
your old lady by avec Mike Patton et Jennifer Charles. Its a fairly new cd,
but a must have for the occasion.
Seth
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 21:38:29 -0800
From: Fred Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Miles
skip heller
> This seems to be the one that you either love or hate. It's groovy, sure,
> but IMHO nothing really happens there, even for 'psycho fonk'. If you want
> to go psycho, it would be better to start with Miles at Fillmore...
>
> Regards, Remco Takken
>
Nobody's mentioning my fav Miles of that period -- JACK JOHNSON, which is a
great straight-ahead playing record record. Not straight-ahead jazz, mind
you. Just straight-ahead no frills playing.
skip h
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 21:44:04 -0800
From: Fred Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: take the coltrane
> while everyone certainly does have a right to their opinions, not getting
> coltrane? i don't get it. COLtrane? what are guys talking about? JOHN
> colTRANE! criminey. it's like not getting bach. or led zeppelin. or, or
> alfred hitchcock or something.
> it's, it's like i don't even know you anymore (*sniff*)
>
> kurt
Uh, I don't like Led Zep, Kurt. But I love Hitchock and Bach.
As for Trane, I am one of the weird people who likes all the Trane that
signals a change of phases for him -- the stuff w/Monk, the first Atlantics
with McCoy, Crescent/Love Supreme -- more than the stuff that he got into
when he was fully into each phase. Something I like about his trepidation
coupled with his need for discovery waging war with each other.
skip h
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Feb 2002 21:45:30 -0800
From: Fred Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Coltrane/Dolphy
skip heller
> hm. it's interesting to find out that coltrane hadn't lit the fires under
> the asses of nearly as many as i had thought. nice to know that ears can be
> so different.
> i "got" coltrane the first time i heard it. coltrane is the reason i am a
> musician today. and like so many others, "A Love Supreme" changed my life.
> -Samuel
The first thing I ever heard of Trane was Miles' "If I Were A Bell", and the
level of intensity and energy grabbed me in such a punk rock way. That one
STILL does.
skip h
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #769
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