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Zorn List Digest      Thursday, February 7 2002      Volume 03 : Number 760



In this issue:
-
       Re: Re. Jazz Death
       Re: bjork (or the dangers of keyboards)
       Re: bjork (or the dangers of keyboards)
       Re: Jazz Death?
       Re: Odp: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
       joseph neff to automotive...
       Re: Re. Jazz Death
       Re: Jazz Death?
       Re: Re. Jazz Death
       Re: Re. Jazz Death
       Re: Jazz Death?
       Re: Jazz Death?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 17:27:42 -0500
From: "Brian Olewnick" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re. Jazz Death

> Rabih Abou-Khalil

Yeah, I like Rabih very much, but I'd be hard pressed to call (what I find
to be) his best work (like 'Odd Times') jazz. But that's just my own
pigeon-holing.

> Brian Blade
> Uri Caine

Not a big fan of either and, of the latter, it's more his classical
interpretations than his azz-related stuff.

> Dominic Duval

You know, none of these guys are very young! What's Duval, 55 or so? In any
case, no, I don't find his own work (what I've heard, which is admittedly
incomplete, though I've seen him as leader a few times) very compelling; you
may differ. As an accompanist for Taylor or McPhee (another giant) I think
he's ok, but, well, no Sirone.

> James Emery

Like him 25 years ago with the String Trio! Again, recent work has struck me
as bland.

> Satoko Fujii

I really haven't heard her well at all. Give me a rec or two.

> Distinctive voices are there to hear.
> Categorize (or pigeonhole) them at your own loss.

But Chris' original post specified "jazz", a pigeonhole in and of itself.
There are some around who would expand that definition to include _every_
music they love that has the slightest tinge. I don't.

> Hmmm. Last time I saw them, Zorn planted a big kiss on Dave's cheek
> after a
> trumpet solo, and Joey was sweating his ass off. Looked like sparks to
> me.

Yeah, if sweating automatically equated to good music, you'd have a point.
I've probably seen Zorn perform more than 30 times and I can't remember a
date where he _didn't_ look overjoyed at the performance, great, bad or
indifferent. Can't say whether or not he kissed Douglas every time.

Brian Olewnick


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 18:23:57 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: bjork (or the dangers of keyboards)

In a message dated 2/7/02 2:19:14 PM, [e-mail] writes:

>> a theremin blasts crazy tritones>
>
>>
>
>> How are you getting more than on note out of a tritone?

>Duh! What I really wanted to ask: How are you getting more
>than one note out of a theremin? You can only play on note at a time.


tremolo, baby.

wooooAAAAAHwwooooooAHAAHAHHAwoooooAHAHAH where woooo is B and AhAHAhHAH is F.

love,
  kate.



- -----
[ .n o t h i n g  i s  w h a t  i s  s a i d. ]

.k a t e  p e t e r s o n.
.c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r.
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>
<A HREF="http://www.icefoundation.org">http://www.icefoundation.org</A>
(roundtable)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 18:43:30 -0500
From: "David Beardsley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: bjork (or the dangers of keyboards)

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>

> In a message dated 2/7/02 2:19:14 PM, [e-mail] writes:
>
> >> a theremin blasts crazy tritones>
> >
> >> How are you getting more than on note out of a tritone?
>
> >Duh! What I really wanted to ask: How are you getting more
> >than one note out of a theremin? You can only play on note at a time.
>
>
> tremolo, baby.

More like vibrato or glissando.



* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley




- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 16:15:52 -0800
From: Chris Selvig <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jazz Death?

I'd never pass up a chance to see some genius in a living room, but I live
outside of San Francisco, so I have more opportunities to see concerts than
I have time and money for.  The best problem I've ever had, granted, but
even if I gave up on buying records and seeing movies and eating out, and
got every book at the library, I still couldn't do it all.  However, the
size of the audience is of no concern to me, and I really like tiny
shows.  You can sit wherever you want, and you get to thank the performer
at the end.

At 11:37 AM 2/7/02 -0500, Ken Waxman wrote:
>Chris (and others):
>
>Don't "pas up some genius when they pass through San
>Francisco and play for 30 people in a living room",
>you may never get a chance to see them again.
>
>I had a grade 10 algebra exam, so missed seeing
>Richard Farina the one time he played Montreal. I was
>late, or he cancelled or the club folded the times I
>tried to see Cannonball Adderley (a real piss off,
>n'est-ce pas, Skip), I didn't see Marion Brown because
>I couldn't get out to an all night club and when I
>first came to Toronto I missed Vic Dickenson because a
>friend had to drag me to see some second rate rock
>band.
>
>Having just come back from a drive (from Toronto) to
>see Carlo Actis Dato -- a great Italian multi-woodwind
>player -- I'd encourage *everyone* to see as many
>folks as you can. You never know when you won't be
>able to see them again. And don't worry about the low
>attendance. I one attended a local jazz concert where
>the band members outnumbered the audience --and it was
>only a trio.
>
>Ken Waxman
>
>
>
>--- Chris Selvig <[e-mail]> wrote:
>     Maybe this boils down to not wanting to kick
> > myself for passing up some
> > genius when they pass through San Francisco and play
> > for 30 people in a
> > living room.
> >
> > Chris Selvig
>
>
>
>=====
>Ken Waxman
>[e-mail]
>www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos
>
>______________________________________________________
>Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca

Chris Selvig


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 17:03:26 -0800
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers

> From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:54:29 -0800
> To: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
> Cc: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>, Marcin Gokieli
> <[e-mail]>, Matthew Ross Davis <[e-mail]>, Remco Takken
> <[e-mail]>, Ajda the Turkish Queen <[e-mail]>, Zorn
> List <[e-mail]>, [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: Odp: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
>
>
> On Tue, 05 Feb 2002 19:05:57 -0800  Skip Heller wrote:

> Yeah, and I was using words like condescending and patronizing. You seem to
> make a difference, I feel yours is the polite way to say it.
>
> Condescending and patronizing are not about hating people, just feeling a
> little bit superior... You know, the typical and good wisher "I know what is
> good for you" attitude, and the refusal to admit that people might have good
> reasons (besides ignorance, cluelessness, brainwashing by big media, etc) to
> not buy an artistic product.
>
> And again the usual fallacy of people involved in obscure/marginal activities
> being genuinely puzzled at the fact that the world does not share their
> priorities...

Okay Patrice, you've proven to me the way to believe is your way.

Let me give you a little insider tale, and tell me if this would not do much
to color your perception of how it works before it hits the streets:

Big Name jazz label, who are manufactured, distributed, and funded (for
publicity, endcaps etc) by a major label signs two acts.  One in Black Horn
Player, and the other is Funky White Jazz Group who have caught on big with
college kids and other fans of jam band-style activity.  Both have reaped a
great deal of press.  BHP is coming off a major where they didn't quite know
what to do with him, but at least one of his records did -- by jazz slaes
standards -- really well.  FWJG are moving up to a bigger label because the
samll label has really done all the can, and can't really get them up to the
next step for which they are obviously ready.

Both make their discs at about the same time.  BHP makes a record that will
not get him any radio, even NPR, because there's cursing on it, and jazz
radio won't touch it because there's no jazz (in the mainstream sense of the
word).  FWJG makes exactly the same kind of record they always have, just
with a slightly glossier production sense.  They know they're going to the
next step, and they're not messing around.  They've worked hard and aren;t
about to get stupid just because Big Name has more money than Respectable
Name (their former label).

Advance discs of both records come out a few wks before the release date, as
per usual.  A freelance reporter who writes prolifically for one of the two
weekly papers in LA here's both, and realizes that, of the two, BHP could
use the ink more, especially since he is not playing LA soon.  Meanwhile,
FWJG are booked in to play at the Launch Pad (not its real name), a club
known as an industry launch for new stars.

The well-meaning editor of the weekly paper says, "Yes, by all means, write
about BHP.  He's always been really interesting, we have yet to cover him,
and his record deserves a shove."

BHP is contacted, gives a fantastic interview, and the article composes
itself with very little write-through.  Editor is happy as a clam with story
and calls Big Name publicity department for a photo of BHP to run with the
story.

BHP advertising division calls editor back moments later, and says they are
not to run this story at least for two months (at which point, the momentum
for BHP's uncommercial little folly will have been killed).  The Launch Pad,
Mega Record Mart, and Big Name are taking a full page ad for two wks in a
row to hype FWJG's BIG GIG, and any interference with this will cost the
paper their advertising, which they will take to the other weekly for a damn
long time.

The editor realizes his job is on the line if he costs his paper three
lucrative clients, and spikes the story.  After which point, BHP is
relegated to "problematic" status for over a year (or nearly two albums),
and he can't really get good coverage in that paper, which is really the
only one that takes a non-provinical attitude towards jazz.

And that's just one scenario of this sort which I've seen up close.  new of
this sort of thing doesn't really leave the offices, but it happens in the
allegedly noble world of jazz, and happens even worse in the world of rock,
where it's a much higher-stakes game ($-wise).

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 17:35:24 -0800
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: joseph neff to automotive...

Sorry all, but I lost Mr Neff's personal email and just wanted to thank him
for the ultra-cool CD and wonder if he got mine and found it entertaining.

sh


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 20:45:10 -0500
From: Mike Chamberlain <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re. Jazz Death

on 2/7/02 5:27 PM, Brian Olewnick at [e-mail] wrote:

>> Rabih Abou-Khalil
>
> Yeah, I like Rabih very much, but I'd be hard pressed to call (what I find
> to be) his best work (like 'Odd Times') jazz. But that's just my own
> pigeon-holing.
>
I think you're pigeon-holing things a bit narrowly.  If you're not doing it
to suit your argument, then you have a point.
>
>> Satoko Fujii
>
> I really haven't heard her well at all. Give me a rec or two.
>
I'd recommend her big band album "Jo" (Buzz) and the trio (w/Dresser and
Black) Toward, "To West" (Enja) as starting points.  There's also "Double
Take" (Ewe) with her North American orchestra on one disk and her Japanese
orchestra doing (mostly) the same compositions on the other.

Others will recommend her duo album with Feldman, "April Shower" (Ewe), but
I haven't yet warmed to that one.  Her most recent trio album is "Junction"
(Ewe) and for a post-rock oriented outing, there's her Japanese quartet
"Vulcan" (sorry, don't have the disk handy, but it's on either Buzz or Ewe,
IIRC).


>> Hmmm. Last time I saw them, Zorn planted a big kiss on Dave's cheek
>> after a
>> trumpet solo, and Joey was sweating his ass off. Looked like sparks to
>> me.
>
> Yeah, if sweating automatically equated to good music, you'd have a point.

And if glib replies constituted an argument, so would you, at least on this
one.  C'mon Brian, you can do better than that.

- --Mike


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 20:56:01 -0500
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jazz Death?

At 11:37 AM 2/7/02 -0500, Ken Waxman wrote:
>And don't worry about the low
>attendance. I one attended a local jazz concert where
>the band members outnumbered the audience --and it was
>only a trio.

The only time I've ever seen Zorn was when he was touring with the
Chadbournes.  For the first set there was me and two bartenders, and two
other patrons showed up for the second set.
- --

Caleb Deupree
[e-mail]

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 21:01:02 -0500
From: "Brian Olewnick" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re. Jazz Death

Mike C. wrote re: Rabih:

> I think you're pigeon-holing things a bit narrowly.  If you're not doing
it
> to suit your argument, then you have a point.

I don't know. On the things I've heard (not everything in his oeuvre, to be
sure), I hear more of a middle-eastern thing than jazz. Similarly with Simon
Shaheen or Talip Ozkan who, I guess, some jazz fans might want to claim as
their own.

> >> Satoko Fujii

Thanks for the recs.

> > Yeah, if sweating automatically equated to good music, you'd have a
point.
>
> And if glib replies constituted an argument, so would you, at least on
this
> one.  C'mon Brian, you can do better than that.

Ok.ok. I think Baron's a really fine drummer and every time I've seen him,
he's given his all. That (to me) doesn't mean the _music_ he's playing (in
this case, as a supporting musician) is automatically great. Hell, Elton
John sweats during his shows. I'd never suggested these guys aren't _trying_
hard, but that's not my criterion for aesthetic success. I think Masada's a
perfect example of the type of thing I'm talking about. All four guys are
monster musicians, Zorn's written an attractive songbook and, for a while,
the music was fairly exciting (I mean, not up in Coltrane territory, but
pretty good). But they take it to a certain point and no further, becoming a
well-oiled, professional machine and it loses (again, for me) all signs of
life. If you enjoy them, fine. I still enjoy their first few hundred discs,
but I haven't seen the point in getting any for about four years. I don't
have any indication that they're going to break out of a well-established
rut.

When I go hear AMM or Otomo, I have no really good idea (except in a general
way) what I'm going to get. With Masada (or Wynton or William Parker or
Louis Belogenis, etc.) I know, within a few granules, exactly what to
expect. This doesn't interest me.

Brian Olewnick

NP: Philip Samartzis/Sachiko M. - Artefact


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 18:20:31 -0800
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re. Jazz Death

> From: "Brian Olewnick" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 21:01:02 -0500
> To: "Mike Chamberlain" <[e-mail]>, <[e-mail]>, "Zorn List"
> <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: Re. Jazz Death
>
> Ok.ok. I think Baron's a really fine drummer and every time I've seen him,
> he's given his all. That (to me) doesn't mean the _music_ he's playing (in
> this case, as a supporting musician) is automatically great.

My experience has led me to the conclusion that things are great the minute
Joey shows up.  He pushes things a little harder but with this wonderful
happiness at all times.  And if anyone is to be considered an innovative
force because he's added to the vocabulary of his instrument (the way Jaco
or Scott LaFaro did in a rhythm section context), Joey is the perfect
example of an innovator.

Honestly, Brian, I think you're complaining that nobody's reinventing the
wheel.  And round still seems to be working for a great many people who feel
stimulated and communciated to.  And I thought the point of art was
generally to stimulate and communicate, not neccessarily to reinvent the
wheel.

Joe Strummer once made a remark that he loved James Fearnly of the Pogues so
much because he "found his groove and he's worked it like a coalmine".  He
said he thought Fearnley was great because he was going so deep instead of
trying to go wide and/or do something self-consciously innovative.  As Glenn
Gould said when discussing Berio (and this might open a can of worms), "New
is not better.  New is simply new, and there's little value in seeking
contempranaiety (spell that, please) for it's own sake."

Maybe the reason so many people continue to investigate the territory that's
on the map is because playing it to their own satisfaction still repesents a
challenge.  Tommy Flanagan, towards the end of his life, was asked why he
continued to play be-bop.  he answered, "I'm still not playing it as well as
I'd like."

I think that's about the most beautiful answer anyone can give about why
they continue to do what they do.  Sonny Rollins may not be out on the edge
of things anymore, but if you catch him on a good night (and he still has
those, but consistency has never been his best suit), you will hear a
completely compelling imrpovisor whose music is fueled by the sound of
discovery and rediscovery.  And, frankly, if that criterion works for
someone who has been in the front lines of so much change over so many
decades, it likely has merit in the field.

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 03:01:21 +0000
From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jazz Death?

>From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <[e-mail]>

For the first set there was me and two bartenders, and two
>other patrons showed up for the second set.

The indie store I worked at in the '80s was offered an instore autograph
session with jazz singer Eddie Jefferson by his record distributor, who were
supposed to publicise it, which of course they never did. I kid you not, no
one, not one person (not even a label rep!) showed up for it, although I got
to spend a thoroughly enjoyable hour chatting with Mr.  Jefferson, the
capper is, 2 weeks later he was murdered, shot dead outside a nightclub in
Detroit...

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 19:33:28 -0800
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jazz Death?

> From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Fri, 08 Feb 2002 03:01:21 +0000
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: Jazz Death?
>
>
> The indie store I worked at in the '80s was offered an instore autograph
> session with jazz singer Eddie Jefferson by his record distributor, who were
> supposed to publicise it, which of course they never did. I kid you not, no
> one, not one person (not even a label rep!) showed up for it, although I got
> to spend a thoroughly enjoyable hour chatting with Mr.  Jefferson

I had much the same experience when the great Jimmy McGriff did an in store
at the joint where I worked in Philly.  We sat around for a couple hours
talking about guitar players.

skip h


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #760
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