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Zorn List Digest      Thursday, February 7 2002      Volume 03 : Number 759



In this issue:
-
       bjork (or the dangers of keyboards)
       Re: bjork (or the dangers of keyboards)
       Re: Sick of Miles
       Re: Future Distribution of Music
       Re: Now vs.Then
       Re: Thoughts from a neophyte -- Zorn, Coltrane, innovation etc.
       Re: frisell's sound part 17.5
       Re: frisell's sound part 17.5
       mishamonk
       Re: bjork (or the dangers of keyboards)
       Re: bjork (or the dangers of keyboards)
       Re: Odp: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers
       Re: alasnoaxis
       Re: Now vs.Then (to Remko)
       [Fwd: Messages out of order?]
       Re: Jazz Death?
       Re: Now vs.Then
       Re: Re. Jazz Death
       Re. Jazz Death
       Leonardo Music Journal

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 12:13:15 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: bjork (or the dangers of keyboards)

In a message dated 2/7/02 11:34:02 AM, [e-mail] writes:

>Oh, I forgot, I just like to say Bj=F6rk.=20
>
>
>
>Bj=F6rk, Bj=F6rk, Bj=F6rk, Bj=F6rk, Bj=F6rk, Bj=F6rk, Bj=F6rk, Bj=F6rk.

ladies and boys,

    beware!  this is what can happen when you suddenly figure out the macro=20
for an O with an umlatt over it!  it is happening all over the nation, all=20
over the WORLD, and no one knows what to do...  <screams and runs away while=
=20
a theremin blasts crazy tritones>

>
>



- -----
[ .n o t h i n g  i s  w h a t  i s  s a i d. ]

.k a t e  p e t e r s o n.
.c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r.
<A HREF=3D"http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.icefoundation.org">http://www.icefoundation.org</A> =20
(roundtable)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 8 Feb 2002 04:32:29 +1100
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: bjork (or the dangers of keyboards)

ah, the 'humorous response' macro. how witty...

<<    beware!  this is what can happen when you suddenly figure out the
macro
for an O with an umlatt over it!  it is happening all over the nation, all
over the WORLD, and no one knows what to do...  <screams and runs away while
a theremin blasts crazy tritones> >>


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 09:56:35 -0800
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Sick of Miles

> From: Efr=E9n del Valle <[e-mail]>
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 16:06:47 +0100 (CET)
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Sick of Miles
>=20
> I hate some attitudes by people who MUST adore a
> specific artist because he/she is considered an icon.
> I have never done it and will never do it- although I
> put my "integrity" at risk.

"Adore" has nothing to do with it.  Accepting that that person was
influential and is still so is a different story.  You remind me of me when
I was about 17, although at that point my ire was more about people telling
me that I absolutely had to love Pat Martino (it was Philly and I am a
guitar player). =20

And, incidentally, I didn't call you silly.  I said Zorn would likely slapo
you silly.  And the "damn kid" comment was meant humorously.  I will no
longer take for granted that you have a sense of humor.

sh


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 09:59:47 -0800
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Future Distribution of Music

> From: Mark Saleski <[e-mail]>
> Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:04:49 -0500
> To: zorn <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Future Distribution of Music
>
> ....i've been wondering what people think about the future of distribution
> setups like cdbaby.
>
> i think it's a cool thing mostly because it keeps the major labels completely
> out of the loop. on the other hand, maybe the exposure will always be limited
> to folks like me who are always rooting around for something new.

Basic bottom line -- not all types of music are meant to reach a large
audience.  Once the artists and the audience accept this, you can see a
thing like CDBABY as conduit to a specific if small crowd who will seek out
a specific thing.

sh


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 10:01:32 -0800
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Now vs.Then

> From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 17:15:10 +0100
> To: <[e-mail]>, "Zorn List" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: Now vs.Then
>
> The sixities stars were all made big by their own baby boom generation.
> Please try to look at 'now', and think about how Dylan and the Beatles were
> never of any use for the real avantgarde of the sixties.

I think Carla Bley would take you to task on this, with regards to the
Beatles and their impact on ESCALATOR OVER THE HILL.  And that's only one
record.

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 10:03:13 -0800
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Thoughts from a neophyte -- Zorn, Coltrane, innovation etc.

> From: Jonas Leddington <[e-mail]>
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 11:55:58 -0500
> To: "'[e-mail]'" <[e-mail]>
> Cc: Jonas Leddington <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Thoughts from a neophyte -- Zorn, Coltrane, innovation etc.
>
> Also, for discussion: perhaps innovation is itself tired as a criteria?

YES!!!!!!

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 18:14:52 +0000
From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: frisell's sound part 17.5

>From: "Andrew" <[e-mail]>

>Many pedals now allow you to play backwards in real-time- the best one of
>these is the Line 6 "delay modeler." ( www.line6.com ).
>For Frisell....maybe he uses something like that, or layers actual reversed
>tapes of his lead playing. It's very easy to do digitally.

He originally used the ElectroHarmonix Memory Man  pedal which was an
analogue delay device that also played backwards loops, don't know if if
he'd still use it,  it's one of the effects the Line 6 can copy...

_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:24:33 -0700
From: "Doug Tapia" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: frisell's sound part 17.5

still using the electroharmonix on top of a barstool last i saw him. . .

fwiw,

- -Doug Tapia
www.roger-hq.com

- ----------

>>Many pedals now allow you to play backwards in real-time- the best one of
>>these is the Line 6 "delay modeler." ( www.line6.com ).
>>For Frisell....maybe he uses something like that, or layers actual reversed
>>tapes of his lead playing. It's very easy to do digitally.
>
> He originally used the ElectroHarmonix Memory Man  pedal which was an
> analogue delay device that also played backwards loops, don't know if if
> he'd still use it,  it's one of the effects the Line 6 can copy...

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 18:58:28 +0000
From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <[e-mail]>
Subject: mishamonk

>Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 10:29:35 -0600
>From: "John Thomas"<[e-mail]>
>Subject: RE: Misha, Monk redux
>
> > From: "Kurt Gottschalk" <[e-mail]>
> > - -andrew bemkey. one of the great traditions of pianists is
> > post-monk. (and
> > not monk-redux -- misha m being obvious, abrams at times,
> > others).
> >
>
>I am not sure what you meant here, but Misha M's playing is not
>all Monk redux. It can be at times, but his free improv playing
>to my ears is an extension of Monk's playing.

sorry -- poor wording on my part. i loves misha. i meant to draw a line
between post-monk and monk-redux, with misha being the former, an extension
of, not a retread.

kurt


_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 14:12:34 -0500
From: "David Beardsley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: bjork (or the dangers of keyboards)

- ----- Original Message -----
From: <[e-mail]>

<screams and runs away while
a theremin blasts crazy tritones>

How are you getting more than on note out of a tritone?


* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley




- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 14:17:36 -0500
From: "David Beardsley" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: bjork (or the dangers of keyboards)

- ----- Original Message -----
From: "David Beardsley" <[e-mail]>


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[e-mail]>
>
> <screams and runs away while
> a theremin blasts crazy tritones>
>
> How are you getting more than on note out of a tritone?

Duh! What I really wanted to ask: How are you getting more
than one note out of a theremin? You can only play on note at a time.


* David Beardsley
* http://biink.com
* http://mp3.com/davidbeardsley



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:54:29 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Odp: Bjork ranting+raving, Plus: Peabody degree losers

On Tue, 05 Feb 2002 19:05:57 -0800  Skip Heller wrote:
>
>
>
> > From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
>
> > Reading my statement above I realize that it could be misunderstood. By "not
> > buying it anymore", I meant the argument that Skip was pushing (people being
> > clueless, illustrated by the Mark Twain quote).
>
> I was not referring to people being stupid, but rather that the powers that
> be intentionally keep them from knowing what goes on behind the doors closed
> to those without money or power.  I wonder what makes you think I hate
> people so much.

Yeah, and I was using words like condescending and patronizing. You seem to
make a difference, I feel yours is the polite way to say it.

Condescending and patronizing are not about hating people, just feeling a
little bit superior... You know, the typical and good wisher "I know what is
good for you" attitude, and the refusal to admit that people might have good
reasons (besides ignorance, cluelessness, brainwashing by big media, etc) to
not buy an artistic product.

And again the usual fallacy of people involved in obscure/marginal activities
being genuinely puzzled at the fact that the world does not share their
priorities...

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 11:56:48 -0800
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: alasnoaxis

On Tue, 05 Feb 2002 18:43:33 -0500  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> >On the other side, I kind of like him in contexts where he is a guest (like
> >with Laswell, of a great Painkiller show at the KF).
>
> Was that the show where part of his solo was sticking the end of the guitar
> chord in his mouth? The one where Mick Harris tried to get Lee Dorrian to
> come up out of the audience and join them \\\"for old times\\\' sake,\\\" to
>  no avail?

I don' think so. The concert I attended was the one part of the 40th birthday
month at the KF.

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 21:05:34 +0100
From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Now vs.Then (to Remko)

Remco Takken a =E9crit :

> Reading from all the open
> doorly examples you give, it seems very unlikely, that you will find new
> creations=2E Just try to be open=2E

Who is closed here?

> The sixities stars were all made big by their own baby boom generation=2E
> Please try to look at 'now', and think about how Dylan and the Beatles wer=
e
> never of any use for the real avantgarde of the sixties=2E

I thought Stockhausen, Berio, Berberian, Ligeti ("Hungarian rock"), to menti=
on
only those who spring to mind, were swayed away by rock, its intuitive music=
al
approach, its socio-political content and nature, its modalism, electronic
instrumentation, etc=2E
Even Boulez' "rug concerts" with the NY Philharmonic ca=2E1970 were indebted=
 to
rock fests and sit-ins (in turn indebted to Cage, so the wheel goes round=2E=
=2E=2E)
Minimalism (Riley, Reich , Glass), arguably the most important new "high"
musical style to emerge from the 60's, comes straight out of rock's pulsatio=
n
and bare bones harmony in reaction to the over-elaborate, self-absorbed
avant-garde cliches of European composers, abstract expressionism and free
jazz=2E
Miles himself from '68 on is the most eloquent example of rock's impact=2E

> So aren't Beck or
> Oasis=2E

They certainly don't, being watered-down music of 35 years ago, but I do
believe nowadays techno and internet's counterculture have a somewhat simila=
r
influence on "avant" artists (not just musicians) as the 60's own
counterculture in it's time=2E
In fact a big consequence of the 60's, Imho, is the partial breakdown of the
wall between pop and avant-garde=2E Is the Beatles'"Revolution n=B09" really=
 pop
music? Is Glenn Branca really avant-garde? Zorn? Glass? "Nixon in China"?
Keith Haring? Jean Michel Basquiat? Warhol? Laurie Anderson?

Best,
DY=2E



>
>


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 21:15:26 +0100
From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: [Fwd: Messages out of order?]

Il s'agit d'un message multivolet au format MIME.
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- --------------3ED309876CA9F1E007FBBB70
Content-Type: message/rfc822
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X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 21:13:35 +0100
From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail]
X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [fr] (Macintosh; I; PPC)
X-Accept-Language: fr
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Ari <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Messages out of order?
References: <[e-mail]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit



Ari a Θcrit :

> > From: Andy Marks <[e-mail]>
> > Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 06:21:01 -0800 (PST)
> > To: [e-mail]
> > Subject: Messages out of order?
> >
> > Is it just me or do others receive zorn-list
> > messages out of order? Like with that last
> > Kubrick message, I received the response and
> > then a couple minutes later the original message.
>
> I receive messages that were posted in 1904. There must be some kind of a
> delay on this list. Don't know if it's at random ;-)

I've set my time machine back to 2002, thank you. (1904's great, though.
They have this amazing music in New Orleans, does'nt have a name yet...)
yours,
DY.



- --------------3ED309876CA9F1E007FBBB70--


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 12:40:20 -0800
From: "s~Z" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jazz Death?

>>>I one attended a local jazz concert where
the band members outnumbered the audience --and it was
only a trio.<<<

Must've been at a locale in a sunny, warm climate.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 21:43:18 +0100
From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Now vs.Then

Skip Heller a =E9crit :

> > From: "Remco Takken" <r=2Etakken@planet=2Enl>
> > Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 17:15:10 +0100
> > To: <y-man@wanadoo=2Efr>, "Zorn List" <zorn-list@lists=2Exmission=2Ecom>
> > Subject: Re: Now vs=2EThen
> >
> > The sixities stars were all made big by their own baby boom generation=
=2E
> > Please try to look at 'now', and think about how Dylan and the Beatles w=
ere
> > never of any use for the real avantgarde of the sixties=2E
>
> I think Carla Bley would take you to task on this, with regards to the
> Beatles and their impact on ESCALATOR OVER THE HILL=2E  And that's only on=
e
> record=2E
>
> skip h

So would Gary Burton (whose late 60's band with Larry Coryell was a wonderfu=
lly
successful jazz/country/rock hybrid), Chick Corea, Roswell Rudd, etc=2E etc=
=2E

Best,
DY=2E



- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2002 16:41:24 -0500
From: "Brian Olewnick" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re. Jazz Death

> Consider that there are large number of serious jazz fans (they assail
> me constantly so I know they're out there) who believe that jazz
> innovation ended sometime in the '30s. Obviously, no one on this list
> shares that belief.

Yes, but on the other hand, is it so difficult imagining someone looking
back from 2100 and identifying Jazz as an art form that flourished from
about 1900-2000? All forms have their life spans; I don't see why jazz would
be excluded. No one does Cubist paintings anymore--it would seem a bit silly
to do so. But most areas of painting still carry Cubism's influence, just as
virtually every contemporary musical genre carries the (often strong)
influence of jazz.

I'm happy to be pointed in directions I'm unaware of but, to generalize
(there are exceptions), I find younger jazz musicians to fall into one of
two categories: Marsalis acolytes regurgitating watered down versions of bop
and early 60's Miles and members of the Aum Fidelity/Visions axis
regurgitating watered down versions of Ayler, Sanders, etc. Personally, I
find them equally boring, but that's just me.

I liked Masada well enough at the beginning; when I caught them a couple of
summers ago (and the chamber version again this past spring at Victo) it
seemed clear that they were going through the motions, able to play this
stuff falling out of bed. All are fine musicians, but there wasn't a real
spark between them. otoh, when I saw Sachiko M. and Otomo duetting at Tonic,
the sense of excitement and _danger_ was palpable. The possibility of
failure was actually present. Can't remember the last time I saw a jazz show
with a drastic enough conception that there was a distinct chance it
wouldn't work. _That's_ what I find missing these days.

Your mileage may vary.

Brian Olewnick

NP: Michihiro Sato - Improvisation






- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 07 Feb 2002 17:13:12 -0500
From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re. Jazz Death

Brian Olewnick wrote:

> two categories: Marsalis acolytes regurgitating watered down versions
of bop
> and early 60's Miles and members of the Aum Fidelity/Visions axis
> regurgitating watered down versions of Ayler, Sanders, etc.

Rabih Abou-Khalil
Brian Blade
Uri Caine
Dominic Duval
James Emery
Satoko Fujii
et.al.

Distinctive voices are there to hear.
Categorize (or pigeonhole) them at your own loss.

> I liked Masada <snip>All are fine musicians, but there wasn't a real
> spark between them.

Hmmm. Last time I saw them, Zorn planted a big kiss on Dave's cheek
after a
trumpet solo, and Joey was sweating his ass off. Looked like sparks to
me.

Sounds like you need some time without music to re-discover its joys.

James Hale




- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu,  7 Feb 2002 16:24:54 -0600
From: Robert Pleshar <[e-mail]>
Subject: Leonardo Music Journal

Hi all,

Don't know if this was ever mentioned and I haven't read any of the articles
yet, but Vol. 11 (2001) of Leonardo Music Journal has a lot of potentially
interesting articles, including:

The Scratch Orchestra and Visual Arts
Cardew as a Basis for a Discussion on Ethical Options
Eddie Prevost: The Arrival of a New Musical Aesthetic: Extracts from a
half-buried Diary
Imaging Music: Abstract Expressionism and Free Improvisation
Hugh Davies, Lawrence Casserly, Alvin Lucier, Scanner all wrote articles as
well.

Rob


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #759
*******************************


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