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Zorn List Digest      Wednesday, February 6 2002      Volume 03 : Number 753



In this issue:
-
       GATES  is performing the Sat. the 16th, 8 to 9, at 33 degrees on Guadalupe Austin Tx...see you there :)
       Re: the business end
       Re: the business end
       Re: Jost on Ornette & Re:ornette
       Re: the business end
       Dick Hyman + Enoch Light  (was RE: Independent Groups)
       RE: Dick Hyman + Enoch Light  (was RE: Independent Groups)
       refuting jost
       Re: Dick Hyman + Enoch Light  (was RE: Independent Groups)
       Re: alas
       The Concert for New York City
       Buckethead, Was: Re: alasnoaxis
       Misha Mengelberg, Was: Re: events in Lund/Kopenhagen?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 10:10:42 -0600
From: "Bill Thompson, prof lo-fi" <[e-mail]>
Subject: GATES  is performing the Sat. the 16th, 8 to 9, at 33 degrees on Guadalupe Austin Tx...see you there :)

.........sorry for the crossposting!............

Hi Everyone :)

I wanted to invite you to GATES' next performance (only an hour this time
:))

It's the 16th (a saturday), from 8 to 9pm at 33 degrees...at 4017 Guadalupe.
(in Austin)

Free, and we will be selling cd's etc.

We should have Guitar, Effects, a couple of Laptops, Bass, Keyboard, Violin,
and maybe oboe and turntable....

Please come and enjoy, should be quieter than our other shows at coffee
houses :)

See you there,

Thanx,

Bill Thompson


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 11:49:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: the business end

Tosh:

Are you asking about the $60 or the smack?

Ken Waxman
- --- Tosh <[e-mail]> wrote:
>
> Wow!  No wonder why I like Prestige Recordings!  But
> seriously it's
> kind of sad.   For the last 7 months I have become a
> huge fan of the
> 50's recordings.  With respect to the payment are we
> talking about
> the sidemen on the dates?  For instince was Miles
> paid the same
> amount or Monk?
>
> >Incidentally, the payment for recording with
> Prestige Records in the
> >'50s was $60, a bottle of booze and a hit of smack.


=====
Ken Waxman
[e-mail]
www.jazzword.com - Jazz/improv news, CD reviews and photos

______________________________________________________
Send your holiday cheer with http://greetings.yahoo.ca

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 09:25:55 -0800
From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: the business end

>
>That would be  for just playing on the date, I believe the leader
>was paid extra (maybe even double?), and then of course the cats
>like Miles and Monk got an advance (not much , I think around
>$2000?) to sign an 'exclusive' with the label. Apparently Blue Note
>paid twice as much (cashwise, they didn't provide the substances),
>and the band even had the luxury of a day's rehearsal. In the '50s
>Prestige was known as the junkies' label, Red Garland was the
>in-house pusher...


That's fascinating!  Is there a book that covers the Prestige years?

>_________________________________________________________________
>Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
>
>
>-


- --
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 09:28:20 -0800
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jost on Ornette & Re:ornette

> From: Stephen Berman <[e-mail]>
> Date: 06 Feb 2002 11:12:34 +0100
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: Jost on Ornette & Re:ornette
>
>> Fair question, Scott.  Ekkehard Jost does not say.  The statement is
>> not developed.  Therefore, it's only speculation in trying to fill in
>> the details.  I consider it a throw-away line--nothing to get shook up
>> about.  Absent Jost himself, the aporia remains.
>
> Jost (Ekkehard) expands on this in his 1982 book _Sozialgeschichte des
> Jazz in den USA_ (Social History of Jazz in the USA), which includes a
> 35-page chapter on "Cool and West Coast Jazz".  He draws a clear
> distinction between the former and the latter: "From a structural
> perspective, Cool Jazz was rather a daring music, whose achievements
> only later, with West Coast Jazz, were flattened out and degenerated
> to a cliche" (here and below, my rough translation from the original
> German).  (Note, however, that this book, unlike his _Free Jazz_, is
> not primarily concerned with purely musical (i.e., with sonic and
> structural) analysis.)
>
> Scott Handley further writes:
>
>> To defend Ornette Coleman at the cost of denigrating improvisors
>> like Konitz, Getz, Mulligan, Baker, Warne Marsh, and any number of
>> other cool improvisors---all of whom, to my mind, are associated
>> with the "West Coast" sound, and all of whom have shockingly nuanced
>> tonal practices in their best performances, which would seem to me
>> to include almost aggressive deviations from this mythical
>> norm---would seem to me to be overcompensation, at the risk of
>> reducing this view of intonation to a function of race.  Not that
>> race isn't a concern, but what the hell is meant by equating "West
>> Coast" (say it: "white") imporvisors' tactics with "sterility"?
>> Let's get specific.
>
> Most of the musicians Scott mentions are cited by Jost in connection
> with Cool Jazz.  Jost specifically singles out the groups centered
> around Tristano and Gil Evans, as decisive to the development of Cool
> Jazz, and attributes to both "a certain emotional reservation, which
> stands in clear contrast to the extraverted, even occasionally
> panic-ridden spontaneity and hectic quality of Bebop."  He calls
> Tristano's _Intuition_ and _Digression_ "a short-lived extravagance of
> white musicians who had temporarily freed themselves of the black
> background of jazz, the blues, and the urgent rhythm of Bebop, and now
> looked longingly towards the polyphonic sound worlds of the West...."

>As prototypical of West Coast
> Jazz Jost cites the bands of Stand Kenton and Woody Herman (he
> characterizes the sax section of Herman's "Four Brothers" as the
> "standardization of the instrumental sound with the goal of maximal
> blending"); also the Chico Hamilton quintet.  In West Coast Jazz
> "extremes were avoided; it was concerned less with exciting than with
> suggesting, not with being hectic and nervous, but with being carefree
> and comfortable."  He calls West Coast Jazz a "thoroughly white
> stylistic domain, formed of an aesthetic oriented towards European
> ideals of sound and structure, played almost exclusively by white
> musicians [he counts five important black exponents] and consumed by
> an overwhelmingly white public."

>"It is not unlikely that the mild Pacific climate
> of California (in Los Angeles 325 sunny days per year) favored a
> mentality in which effortless enjoyment and a preference for simple
> cheerfulness developed into the dominant patterns of musical
> behavior."
>
> --Steve Berman

This Jost guy sounds like a dork of the first water.

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 09:30:03 -0800
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: the business end

> From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 15:09:22 +0000
> To: [e-mail]
> Subject: Re: the business end
>
> That would be  for just playing on the date, I believe the leader was paid
> extra (maybe even double?), and then of course the cats like Miles and Monk
> got an advance (not much , I think around $2000?) to sign an 'exclusive'
> with the label. Apparently Blue Note paid twice as much (cashwise, they
> didn't provide the substances), and the band even had the luxury of a day's
> rehearsal. In the '50s Prestige was known as the junkies' label, Red Garland
> was the in-house pusher...

For whatever its worth, Monk's Prestige contract was purchased by Riverside
for $109 -- the balance of what he owed the label in non-recouped costs.

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 09:29:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Scott Handley <[e-mail]>
Subject: Dick Hyman + Enoch Light  (was RE: Independent Groups)

<--- "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S)"
[e-mail]> wrote:
>This
> school payed $10,000 for a Dick Hyman (yes that's
> his name) solo concert.
> (He was involved in the sdtk for Woody Allen's
> RADIODAYS -- I think....)

I'm getting really tangential here, but please bear
with me.  A few/several issues ago in The Wire, there
was a backpage editorial---one of the
testimonies/anecdotes The Wire calls
"Epiphanies"---with Drew Daniel from Matmos extolling
the virtues of his thrift-bin-vinyl
revelation/discovery of the easy-listening wunderband
Enoch Light, which turned out to be a project of Dick
Hyman's (who I understand is actually an arranger of
note....Skip?).  Anyway, all this is topical, because
Daniel likens the complex inner workings of the
arrangements to Naked City, all the genre changes and
stop-on-a-dime acrobatics, albeit sprinkled with a
saccharine coating. (And can't that be sinfully
sweet?)  I've never heard Enoch light, but since we've
been discussing esoterica/exotica recently, and Naked
City, I thought I'd mention this group.  Is Enoch
Light worth checking out?

- -----s

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 12:28:18 -0500
From: "Sean Westergaard" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Dick Hyman + Enoch Light  (was RE: Independent Groups)

What I've heard of Enoch Light's stuff is totally and painfully lightweight.
he ran a couple labels in the 60's and 70's (Command & Project 3)that
cranked out tons of albums that cashed in on the hits of the day-the
precursor to Muzak?  There's some fun use of stereo on some of the
recordings, but Esquivel is way cooler for my money.
sean

- -----Original Message-----
From: [e-mail]
[mailto:[e-mail]]On Behalf Of Scott Handley
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 12:30 PM
To: Zorn-List
Subject: Dick Hyman + Enoch Light (was RE: Independent Groups)


<--- "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S)"
[e-mail]> wrote:
>This
> school payed $10,000 for a Dick Hyman (yes that's
> his name) solo concert.
> (He was involved in the sdtk for Woody Allen's
> RADIODAYS -- I think....)

I'm getting really tangential here, but please bear
with me.  A few/several issues ago in The Wire, there
was a backpage editorial---one of the
testimonies/anecdotes The Wire calls
"Epiphanies"---with Drew Daniel from Matmos extolling
the virtues of his thrift-bin-vinyl
revelation/discovery of the easy-listening wunderband
Enoch Light, which turned out to be a project of Dick
Hyman's (who I understand is actually an arranger of
note....Skip?).  Anyway, all this is topical, because
Daniel likens the complex inner workings of the
arrangements to Naked City, all the genre changes and
stop-on-a-dime acrobatics, albeit sprinkled with a
saccharine coating. (And can't that be sinfully
sweet?)  I've never heard Enoch light, but since we've
been discussing esoterica/exotica recently, and Naked
City, I thought I'd mention this group.  Is Enoch
Light worth checking out?

- -----s

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send FREE Valentine eCards with Yahoo! Greetings!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

- -



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 09:47:19 -0800
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: refuting jost

>Jazz, and attributes to both "a certain emotional reservation, which
>stands in clear contrast to the extraverted, even occasionally
>panic-ridden spontaneity and hectic quality of Bebop."  He calls
>Tristano's _Intuition_ and _Digression_ "a short-lived extravagance of
>white musicians who had temporarily freed themselves of the black
>background of jazz, the blues, and the urgent rhythm of Bebop, and now
>looked longingly towards the polyphonic sound worlds of the West...."

This is just ridiculous.  Neither of the Tristano free titles are bound to
polyphony or any kind of tonal implication that way.

And I don't recall Tristano's attitudes about California's jazz players in
general being all that loving

>However, he also notes that the MJQ (whose music he describes as
>substituting "the caution and elegance of pseudo-baroque counterpoint
>for the rhythmic fever of Bop") contradicts the notion that Cool Jazz
>is a "white music", and that Lester Young was the "involuntary father
>figure of Cool and West Coast Jazz".

this is part of something that is true.  The major figures of Califronia
jazz during the period cited Count Basie's band as the chief influence.

 >As prototypical of West Coast
>Jazz Jost cites the bands of Stand Kenton and Woody Herman (he
>characterizes the sax section of Herman's "Four Brothers" as the
>"standardization of the instrumental sound with the goal of maximal
>blending"); also the Chico Hamilton quintet.

Groups that sound absolutely nothing like each other.  Interesting.  And the
last of which being a springboard for Eric Dolphy.

>In West Coast Jazz
>"extremes were avoided; it was concerned less with exciting than with
>suggesting, not with being hectic and nervous, but with being carefree
>and comfortable."

There is enough West Coast music that contradicts that statement that it
doesn't even need a response other than head-shaking.

> He calls West Coast Jazz a "thoroughly white
>stylistic domain, formed of an aesthetic oriented towards European
>ideals of sound and structure, played almost exclusively by white
>musicians [he counts five important black exponents] and consumed by
>an overwhelmingly white public."

Ill-founded, given Central Avenue's prolific output and high degree of
influence.

>He argues that the rise and
>(short-lived) success of West Coast Jazz was conditioned by the social
>and economic development of (southern) California (in particular the
>movie industry), but also speculates (and as a native Angelo I can't
>resist citing this): "It is not unlikely that the mild Pacific climate
>of California (in Los Angeles 325 sunny days per year) favored a
>mentality in which effortless enjoyment and a preference for simple
>cheerfulness developed into the dominant patterns of musical
>behavior."

It's more likely that weather and population density play a role in the
atmosphere in which one expresses himself.  Think about it this way -- if
you take the NY subways every day, you're liable to feel a certain way.  But
you're probably going to feel different if you're taking a subway every day.
Factors like this, weather etc definitely color the music.  It's a big part
of artistic regionalism.

skip h
- -



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 09:48:24 -0800
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Dick Hyman + Enoch Light  (was RE: Independent Groups)

> From: Scott Handley <[e-mail]>
> Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 09:29:38 -0800 (PST)
> To: Zorn-List <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Dick Hyman + Enoch Light  (was RE: Independent Groups)
>
> Is Enoch
> Light worth checking out?

No.  His stuff sounds like old shopping music.

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 18:56:14 +0100
From: Tim Blechmann <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: alas

jt>        I assume you mean the second Jim Black Alas No Axis cd, since
jt> the first one came out last year.  We only hear about W&W release
jt> dates 1 month in advance.  The second AlasNoAxis will be out later
jt> this year, but no idea exactly when.  Next time I see Jim, I will ask
jt> him.  take care, Bruce at DMG

i am not sure, but as far as i remember it will be released in march
or april (in germany).

 Tim                          mailto:[e-mail]
                              ICQ: 96771783
- --
The only people for me are the mad ones, the ones who are mad to live,
mad to talk, mad to be saved, desirous of everything at the same time,
the ones who never yawn or say a commonplace thing, but burn, burn,
burn, like fabulous yellow roman candles exploding like spiders across
the stars and in the middle you see the blue centerlight pop and
everybody goes "Awww!"
                                                          Jack Kerouac


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 10:09:20 -0800
From: "Rev. Freud Hairs" <[e-mail]>
Subject: The Concert for New York City

>"It is not unlikely that the mild Pacific climate
> of California (in Los Angeles 325 sunny days per year) favored a
> mentality in which effortless enjoyment and a preference for
simple
> cheerfulness developed into the dominant patterns of musical
> behavior."

Funny, I just watched the DVD "The Concert For New York City." If
ever their was an occasion calling for music which exemplifies
effort and complexity, this was such an occasion. However, the DVD
is very much a showcase for effortless enjoyment and simple
cheerfulness (musically speaking). The *dominant* patterns are
pretty universal regardless of locale:

Paul McCartney, The Who, Bon Jovi, Bono and Edge of U2, David
Bowie, Elton John, Destiny's Child, Janet Jackson (remote from
Pittsburgh), Backstreet Boys, Mick Jagger, John Mellencamp, Eric
Clapton, Billy Joel, James Taylor, Melissa Etheridge, Macy Gray,
Marc Anthony, Five For Fighting, Goo Goo Dolls, Jay-Z


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 19:42:45 +0100
From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Buckethead, Was: Re: alasnoaxis

> > So, um, how about that Buckethead, eh?
>
> Based on my experience of three shows with his projects five years ago, I
> think it was the most self-indulgent crap I have ever seen in my whole
life.
Same goes for his records. I liked the ones with Laswells editing all around
him, but his stuff (on Avant f.i.) is crap: hopeless demo-ing of the most
self indulgent kind (especially the fact that it is being released as a
'real' album disturbed me).

Henry Kaiser kind of discovered him, Buckethead is on a nice track of the
so-so Kaiser cd 'Hope you like our new direction' (1991). Kaiser reveals
Bucketheads real name, too, it's Brian Carroll.
Regards, Remco Takken


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 20:13:57 +0100
From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Misha Mengelberg, Was: Re: events in Lund/Kopenhagen?

I will be back in time for the
> Misha Mengelberg / H. Bennink/ B. Jones/ D. Douglas concerts at the
BIMhuis.
> Any idea on what to expect? Similar "quiet" stuff as last year with
> M.M./J. Baron/ G. Cohen or (hopefully...) something more exciting?

Mhm, I hope you live long enough to grow into the concept of excitement in
quietly brooding atmospheres. Misha Mengelberg is capable off that, so you
missed the point the first time. Misha's just really meaningful as a
soiloist, especially when disguising as Thelonious Monk's best pupil. Then,
at least at one of last years concerts, Lee Konitz sat in, now here's an
interesting quiet guy to start with.

But, perhaps I am trying in vain, you might be one of those people who just
need a hammer in order to *feel* something coming through. I can't give it
to you.

Regards, Remco Takken





- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #753
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