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Zorn List Digest      Wednesday, February 6 2002      Volume 03 : Number 752



In this issue:
-
       Re: alasnoaxis
       Re: the business end
       RE: the business end
       Re: OT: saul williams / www.massmag.com
       Re: French pock/rop
       Re: French pock/rop
       RE: Independent Groups
       FW: [thewire-announcements] Diaz-Infante / Marsh L.A. gigs / Feb 9-10
       Odp: Yet another tangent (marginal Zorn content)
       Re: Jost on Ornette & Re:ornette
       alas
       events in Lund/Kopenhagen?
       Re: Re: Naked City live on DVD  / NY gigs
       Re: the business end
       seigen ono

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 21:01:44 -0800
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: alasnoaxis

> From: "Nirav Soni" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 22:44:28 -0500
> To: <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: alasnoaxis
>
>> Hey, I thought everybody loved the Shaggs. Don't tell me you think they play
>> out of tune???

The Shaggs have their own notes, structures, and everything else.  The first
time I heard them, I knew I was hearing some music that I could only hear
from them.

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 5 Feb 2002 21:36:23 -0800
From: Tosh <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: the business end

Wow!  No wonder why I like Prestige Recordings!  But seriously it's
kind of sad.   For the last 7 months I have become a huge fan of the
50's recordings.  With respect to the payment are we talking about
the sidemen on the dates?  For instince was Miles paid the same
amount or Monk?

>Incidentally, the payment for recording with Prestige Records in the
>'50s was $60, a bottle of booze and a hit of smack.
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
>
>
>-


- --
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 01:00:29 -0500
From: "Zachary Steiner" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: the business end

Wasn't Dolphy clean?  I thought he didn't do drugs or drink.  Am I wrong
this?  So did he only get $60 and miss out on the good night?

Zach



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 05 Feb 2002 22:38:17 -0800
From: "carlos torres" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: OT: saul williams / www.massmag.com

>Right, so I didn't _need_ to bring this up again, but you cut off
>the rest of my reply (above), and changed what you initially said ;-),
>which was:


maybe your just arent hip wid my lingo....(theres a ";-)" for ya...).

_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx


- -

------------------------------

Date:
From: [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Re: French pock/rop

* Tosh <[e-mail]>:
>I am a huge Godard fan, so I am dying to hear Chantal Goya.

Hey-hey!  "Masculin-f=E9minin" is a great one, non? ;)

>Sadly I saw one of her albums (an early hits collection)
>on my travels, but foolishly I didn't purchase it.

The one to get, IMO, is "Les Annees 60" on the French Magic label.
Here's a summary from Other Music (I think):

" Goya's most famous turn came in Jean-Luc Godard's 1966 film
"Masculin Feminin", where she portrayed Madeleine, an aspiring
pop star. This collection includes six songs from that film plus
six 7-inch releases between 1964 and 1967, 20 songs total. Her
best work is post-1965, where the arrangements start edging
towards the baroque end of the pop spectrum. Goya's voice is
lilting and guileless, as if she was Francoise Hardy's untrained
kid sister. "

>France Gall is pure great pop trash!  I don't know her recent work,
>but I do have a best of France Gall album and it's great.

The albums I enjoy most are "Baby Pop" (1966, with songs from Serge
and Andre Popp, and the wonderful Alain Goraguer and his orchestra;
Goraguer's music for "La Plan=E8te Sauvage" and his work on early
Gainsbourg LPs is great!), and "1968", her psychedelic LP (!), with
even more tunes from Gainsbourg, Goraguer, Dassin et al.  I would
avoid anything from the 70's onward.  Pre-1966 she's a little bit
too pre-teen ... ;-b


- -Patrick


NP: Nara Le=E3o - "Dez Anos Depois"



- -

------------------------------

Date:
From: [e-mail] (Patrick Carey)
Subject: Re: French pock/rop

Thanks Duncan & Patrice ... for the Brassens, Ferr=E9 and Kaas
recommendations/comments. :)

[Patricia Kaas]
>She's the star of an upcoming film by Claude Lelouch, her first:
>"And now, ladies and gentlemen", with Jeremy Irons, where she's
>a cabaret singer.

Interesting ... and Lelouch no less.  Will have to read more.

>>I personally think French is a great language to rhyme/flow in
>>(very smooth),

>Definitely, but US-driven pop has desensitized most guys and girls
>from the power of their own language.

Sad, but true.

>>"Bj=F6rk sings Gainsbourg", which I don't think I'd want,
>>even though I enjoy Bj=F6rk.

>Would'nt be any more bizzare than Jane Birkin!

Well ... at least _a little_ more bizzare. :)


- -Patrick



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 01:17:10 -0700
From: "Matthew W Wirzbicki  (S)" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Independent Groups

I have been 'connected' with the recent improv shows and with the previous
Le Quan Ninh show, Tim Berne Paraphrase show, the AMM concert and the Cecil
Taylor solo gig last fall.

It's been a nice couple of years in C.Springs and I just saw Keith Rowe solo
tonight.  (Can you make a second T-shirt for me Scott?)

Accessibility -- well, I just had the experience of having a "20th century"
composer trash the Mueller/Sugimoto duo (which he didn't attend) because his
freshman class didn't enjoy it.  Fortunately, the mission statement of the
committee I've been dealing with is to bring challenging artistic
performers, NOT entertainers, and I've been blowing the dust off that
manifesto.  This - conservative - "new" composer wanted to assert that
because people left the event it was not a "success"

The other main source of funding , and orginization (for AMM, Keith, and
Cecil) was a NEH professorship held by Philosophy prof. Jonathan Lee.  He's
actually bringing Robert Ashley later this spring.  Great guy.  I actually
helped only a bit on these whereas I orginized Mueller/Sugimoto, Tim Berne,
and Le Quan Ninh....oh, and bear in mind....I DON'T know what I'm doing.
I'm just a kid, not a 'professional'....

I'll second Chris's emotion -- back things you believe in.  College's have
money....you just have to care what they spend it on because really most
students don't.  They don't even know that they can influence things.

as for mid west acts...J.A. Deane lives in New Mexico....Jack Wright lives
in Boulder CO.  I don't know about expense but....anyway Vandermark might
not be as expensive as you think or as colleges are able to give.  This
school payed $10,000 for a Dick Hyman (yes that's his name) solo concert.
(He was involved in the sdtk for Woody Allen's RADIODAYS -- I think....)

anyway -- Zack, please contact me off list if you think I can be of any
help...

Matt


oh, and the concerts.....I need a more well defined vocabulary of emoticons
:-)




- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 00:59:21 -0800
From: =?US-ASCII?Q?Falcata-Galia_and_Tariff_Records?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: FW: [thewire-announcements] Diaz-Infante / Marsh L.A. gigs / Feb 9-10

Folks;

This is being forwarded for the benefit of those in the Los Angeles area.
Hope to see you at Ernesto's performance.  Enjoy!

Regards,

Rudy Carrera
Falcata-Galia and Tariff Records
PO Box 134
Rialto, California 92377 USA
http://www.falcata-galia.com
http://www.tariffrecords.com


- -----Original Message-----
From: Ernesto Diaz-Infante [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 1:01 AM
To: Ernesto Diaz-Infante
Subject: [thewire-announcements] Diaz-Infante / Marsh L.A. gigs / Feb
9-10



Greetings!
Bob Marsh and I have some out-of-town performances below this weekend in
the Los Angeles area. Please feel free to pass this info to friends or
those interested in the L.A. area. Thanks! more later, Ernesto


February 9, 9pm
Salvation Theater
1519 Griffith Park Blvd
(in Silver lake at Sunset)

Ernesto Diaz-Infante, prepared guitar
Bob Marsh, cello
Chris Heenan, reeds

and

Jeremy Drake, guitar
Jeff Eliassen, trumpet
Andrew Epstein, contrabass


February 10, 9pm
The Smell
247 South Main St.
Los Angeles, CA 90012
[phone]

Bob Marsh's Illuminated Orchestra

Featuring. . .

Ernesto Diaz-Infante, guitar
Jeremy Drake, guitar
Harris Eisenstadt, percussion
Chris Heenan, reeds
Jeff Kaiser, trumpet
Ronit Kirchman, violin
Sara Schoenbeck, bassoon
Cory Wright, reeds
Hal Onserud, contrabass


About Ernesto Diaz-Infante:
http://www.paxrecordings.com/ernesto/
http://www.bayimproviser.com/ernestodiazinfante

About Bob Marsh:
http://homepage.interaccess.com/~raf/zeggz//rjm/

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- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 10:21:09 +0100
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Odp: Yet another tangent (marginal Zorn content)

- ----- Original Message -----
From: D Dvb <[e-mail]>
> I know that I'm on the Zornlist so this may sound funny, but quite frankly
> if John Zorn didn't exist, well, so what?  Of the thousands of artists
that

You are IMO wrong. JZ plays the role now Miles played in the 60's an early
'70s. He organizes musicians, finds the, shows somehow the way. Many leading
musicians (see douglas and frisell, for example) have been influenced by him
very strongly. We'd have had loads of good musicians - ornette, ayler,
dolphy - had Miles not been there, but he was surely central.
FWIW, I can  hardly anyone else producieng piececes that would be comparable
in importance with godard, spillane, troture garden, or absinthe.

> have walked this planet in the history of recorded music, John Zorn is
> somehow ultra-special?  I mean, how many potential "geniuses" have we lost
> because minorities (blacks/women/etc.) were never given the opportunity?

OK, thousends of Stravinskys died in car accidents being four years old, and
99% of them where born in Bengladesh without any chance to do anything but
struggle for life. Not to mention the possibility of people like Webern or
Dolphy living longer. You can't look at it that way. There are too many
possibilities to take them into account.

Best,
Marcin


- -

------------------------------

Date: 06 Feb 2002 11:12:34 +0100
From: Stephen Berman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jost on Ornette & Re:ornette

"Bill Ashline" <[e-mail]> writes:

> >From: Scott Handley <[e-mail]>
>
> >I appreciate the Gebers fragments, Bill; I need to go
> >back to this book.  But since Gebers brought it up:
> >could someone please NAME SOME NAMES regarding this
> >"sterilized tone quality" of "West Coast jazz"?
>
> Fair question, Scott.  Ekkehard Jost does not say.  The statement is
> not developed.  Therefore, it's only speculation in trying to fill in
> the details.  I consider it a throw-away line--nothing to get shook up
> about.  Absent Jost himself, the aporia remains.

Jost (Ekkehard) expands on this in his 1982 book _Sozialgeschichte des
Jazz in den USA_ (Social History of Jazz in the USA), which includes a
35-page chapter on "Cool and West Coast Jazz".  He draws a clear
distinction between the former and the latter: "From a structural
perspective, Cool Jazz was rather a daring music, whose achievements
only later, with West Coast Jazz, were flattened out and degenerated
to a cliche" (here and below, my rough translation from the original
German).  (Note, however, that this book, unlike his _Free Jazz_, is
not primarily concerned with purely musical (i.e., with sonic and
structural) analysis.)

Scott Handley further writes:

> To defend Ornette Coleman at the cost of denigrating improvisors
> like Konitz, Getz, Mulligan, Baker, Warne Marsh, and any number of
> other cool improvisors---all of whom, to my mind, are associated
> with the "West Coast" sound, and all of whom have shockingly nuanced
> tonal practices in their best performances, which would seem to me
> to include almost aggressive deviations from this mythical
> norm---would seem to me to be overcompensation, at the risk of
> reducing this view of intonation to a function of race.  Not that
> race isn't a concern, but what the hell is meant by equating "West
> Coast" (say it: "white") imporvisors' tactics with "sterility"?
> Let's get specific.

Most of the musicians Scott mentions are cited by Jost in connection
with Cool Jazz.  Jost specifically singles out the groups centered
around Tristano and Gil Evans, as decisive to the development of Cool
Jazz, and attributes to both "a certain emotional reservation, which
stands in clear contrast to the extraverted, even occasionally
panic-ridden spontaneity and hectic quality of Bebop."  He calls
Tristano's _Intuition_ and _Digression_ "a short-lived extravagance of
white musicians who had temporarily freed themselves of the black
background of jazz, the blues, and the urgent rhythm of Bebop, and now
looked longingly towards the polyphonic sound worlds of the West...."
However, he also notes that the MJQ (whose music he describes as
substituting "the caution and elegance of pseudo-baroque counterpoint
for the rhythmic fever of Bop") contradicts the notion that Cool Jazz
is a "white music", and that Lester Young was the "involuntary father
figure of Cool and West Coast Jazz".  As prototypical of West Coast
Jazz Jost cites the bands of Stand Kenton and Woody Herman (he
characterizes the sax section of Herman's "Four Brothers" as the
"standardization of the instrumental sound with the goal of maximal
blending"); also the Chico Hamilton quintet.  In West Coast Jazz
"extremes were avoided; it was concerned less with exciting than with
suggesting, not with being hectic and nervous, but with being carefree
and comfortable."  He calls West Coast Jazz a "thoroughly white
stylistic domain, formed of an aesthetic oriented towards European
ideals of sound and structure, played almost exclusively by white
musicians [he counts five important black exponents] and consumed by
an overwhelmingly white public."  He argues that the rise and
(short-lived) success of West Coast Jazz was conditioned by the social
and economic development of (southern) California (in particular the
movie industry), but also speculates (and as a native Angelo I can't
resist citing this): "It is not unlikely that the mild Pacific climate
of California (in Los Angeles 325 sunny days per year) favored a
mentality in which effortless enjoyment and a preference for simple
cheerfulness developed into the dominant patterns of musical
behavior."

- --Steve Berman


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 05:15:13 -0800 (PST)
From: jason tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: alas

from bruce at DMG

Hi Jason,
       I assume you mean the second Jim Black Alas No Axis cd, since
the first one came out last year.  We only hear about W&W release
dates 1 month in advance.  The second AlasNoAxis will be out later
this year, but no idea exactly when.  Next time I see Jim, I will ask
him.  take care, Bruce at DMG

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Send your FREE holiday greetings online!
http://greetings.yahoo.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 14:52:25 +0100 (MET)
From: Emmanouil Papagiannakis <[e-mail]>
Subject: events in Lund/Kopenhagen?

I am going to be in Lund, Sweden for the next couple of weeks and I was
wondering if anyone from that region could recommend anything interesting
taking place. I guess even Kopenhagen is within reach, making it more
interesting.

Too bad I'll be missing DKV here, but I will be back in time for the
Misha Mengelberg / H. Bennink/ B. Jones/ D. Douglas concerts at the BIMhuis.
Any idea on what to expect? Similar "quiet" stuff as last year with
M.M./J. Baron/ G. Cohen or (hopefully...) something more exciting?
Of course Bennink is not Baron (I see flames coming...)!!!

Manolis

PS: after the hiphop discussions of the last weeks I (also) picked up
the cLOUDDEAD CD. Pretty good. inspired, distorted misty sound.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 12:19:05 +0000
From: Alex Werner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Re: Naked City live on DVD  / NY gigs

Hi!

I'd like to know if there are any newspapers, fanzines or even blogs
that reviews NY gigs.

I'd like to know because Zorn is playing tomorrow at Tonic but i guess
i won't find any review here on the Zornlist. You guys (not you, Steve, you in
general) don't write too often about the gigs you go. I've never read a
word about
those shows for the Red Cross (the ones Zorn promote with Masada, Emergency),
neither the new year's eve, with the Electric Masada.

I know this great site with the pictures (www.downtownmusic.net), but the
reviews are
in russian! I can't barely speak english!   :)

So, please send me any related link if you could... Have been brownsing
through some NY newspapers,
with no sucess.

And... If you're going to Tonic tomorrow, let us know how it was, who
played etc.

Thank you very much,

Alex Werner
rio de janeiro, brazil


At 18:47 2/5/02 Tuesday, you wrote:
>The really convenient thing is that by the time Zorn's ready to do
>laundry, the pants walk themselves to the cleaners... ;-P
>
>Steve Smith
>[e-mail]
>NP - Leos Janacek, 'Moravian Folk Poetry' - Magdalena Kozena (Deutsche
>Grammophon)
>
>P.S. I once saw Zorn wearing those camos at the New York Philharmonic for
>the world premiere of his latest orchestral work...
>
>-


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 15:09:22 +0000
From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: the business end

>From: Tosh <[e-mail]>

  With respect to the payment are we talking about
>the sidemen on the dates?  For instince was Miles paid the same
>amount or Monk?

That would be  for just playing on the date, I believe the leader was paid
extra (maybe even double?), and then of course the cats like Miles and Monk
got an advance (not much , I think around $2000?) to sign an 'exclusive'
with the label. Apparently Blue Note paid twice as much (cashwise, they
didn't provide the substances), and the band even had the luxury of a day's
rehearsal. In the '50s Prestige was known as the junkies' label, Red Garland
was the in-house pusher...

_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2002 15:27:56 +0000
From: "Ricardo Jorge" <[e-mail]>
Subject: seigen ono

can anyone please point me to a site with complete discography of Seigen
Ono?

np- An opctopuss on the bath tub (japaneeese noise, great)

_________________________________________________________________
Chegou o novo MSN Explorer. Instale jß. ╔ gratuito:
http://explorer.msn.com.br/.


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #752
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