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2002-01-31
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #732
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Friday, February 1 2002 Volume 03 : Number 732
In this issue:
-
Re: david bowie (slight return)
Re: Burhan Ocal and Jamaaladeen Tacuma
steel drum recommendations?
Re: punk jazz
Re: west masada
Re: abstract hip hop
Odp: david bowie (slight return)
Re: Flying Vandermarks
zorn does herbie nichols
Re: d-mented R&B/hip hop
OT Neptunes etc. (was Re: d-mented R&B/hip hop)
OT Re: French rap
OT Re: freestyle fellowship/saul williams
OT Re: abstract hip hop
OT Doublemoon (was: Re: Burhan Ocal and Jamaaladeen Tacuma)
OT Re: hip hop/ninja/click-hop
Re: jazz punk
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 22:29:09 -0800
From: Tosh <tosh@loop.com>
Subject: Re: david bowie (slight return)
I just want to add I think Andrew's suggestion is great, but I have
to admit that I like the Gary Glitter singles. I love the sound of
the recordings and although sort of in bad taste I wouldn't run away
from Gary Glitter.
- --
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 08:55:55 +0200
From: ubaykara@ykb.com
Subject: Re: Burhan Ocal and Jamaaladeen Tacuma
>A while back, someone mentioned a new CD "Groove alla Turca" by Burhan
Ocal
>and Jamaaladeen Tacuma. I've been unable to track it down anywhere. Does
>anyone know of a source?
Hi,
There's a good online store in Turkey which is (www.ideefixe.com.tr). You
can order any Turkish jazz from there. If you have trouble navigating
through the site (since it's in Turkish) or need additional
recommendations, you can e-mail me privately.
Cheers,
Umit.
ubaykara@ykb.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 15:01:21 +0800
From: jmcazurin <mikah@toast.net>
Subject: steel drum recommendations?
Hello all -
While in NYC recently I had the pleasure of checking out a lot of the
street and subway musicians. One of them was a steel drum player who would
play blues, R&B, reggae, Stevie Wonder tunes, and so on, either with other
musicians or along to a tape. It seemed to me that he was a really good
soloist and that the pans are very well suited to the blues and R&B.
Can anyone recommend good music with steel drums? I'm interested in
hearing them both in the original context (calypso, I think? please correct
me if I'm wrong) and in other styles.
Thanks very much in advance!
mikah
Sometimes we construct spiderwebs
of smoke and saliva, fragile thought packets.
Leave thinking to the one who gave intelligence.
In silence, there is eloquence.
Stop weaving, and watch how the pattern improves.
- - Rumi
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 02:22:25 EST
From: Dgasque@aol.com
Subject: Re: punk jazz
In a message dated 1/31/02 1:23:30 PM Eastern Standard Time,
proussel@ichips.intel.com writes:
<< On Wed, 30 Jan 2002 22:15:49 EST Dgasque@aol.com wrote:
>
> And one French outfit that I can't quite squeeze out...
Catalog with Jac Berrocal?
>>
Good guess, but not the one I was thinking of.
AAARGH! (BAM BAM!!) <= sound of head beating against the table
=dg=
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 02:31:30 EST
From: Fastian@aol.com
Subject: Re: west masada
<< The lineup you describe below was videotaped at the Great Amearican Music
Hall in SF early 1994. Zorn, of course, made the videographer swear never
to release it.
There was one more west coast Masada show by a different lineup--much more
recent (1996 or 97?). They played at Slim's--scott amendola, john schott,
and bassist john shifflet, and probably others.
--graham connah >>
That GAMH show was really fine. I remember Zorn kept making like he was
worshipping Kenny Wolleson. Zorn and Goldberg did work very well together.
I remember another Masada show at the Stork Club in Oakland with Douglas
replacing Goldberg. They were very high energy that night. I remember when
Zorn came on he passed out free sandwiches.
>>I have a vague memory of that group being recorded for broadcast (on
KPFA, maybe?), but playing Herbie Nichols compositions. Anybody have a
copy? I think the show would have been at New Langton Arts in SF.
Jim<<
I think that show was a Ben Goldberg project only that didn't have anything
to do with Zorn.
Also I thing Skip mentioned a Goldberg/Eskelin duo in Berkeley. I think they
played in a 4tet many years ago at Beanbenders. That was Eskelin's 1st visit
to the Bay Area in a long time, maybe ever. Also, there was a Goldberg/Schott
duo opening for Eskelin/Parkins/Black a couple of years ago at Tuva. If
anyone knows of other shows, I'd like to hear about it. Cheers,
John Threadgould
np John Hollenbeck- The Claudia
Quintet
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 00:09:46 -0800
From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: abstract hip hop
is it me, or has nobody mentioned mixmaster mike? we did two gigs together,
and he wiped me out both nights. just brilliant.
also, on the jurassic 5 "quality control" disc, there's a cut chemist solo
cut (something about jazz or swing in the title) that is positively cosmic.
for those around LA, marvski -- a former j5 cat -- is worth seeing. he's
actually steve fowler's (fowler bros) son. also, he's a burning turntablist
and a very cool rapper.
skip h
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Feb 2002 09:17:22 +0100
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl>
Subject: Odp: david bowie (slight return)
> The first 3 Eno Albums (the first is the most glam rock)
You mean the first three POP Eno albums, his first being 'no pussyfooting',
, a duet with robert fripp - not that much glam. That being said, all those
albums are really great, some of the mest music made for the 30 years IMHO.
'Another green World', an absolute beast, should be the best starting point
(yet, when i think wbut it, this album does not sound that much glam -
rather minimalist/ pop for childern that are not very bright). Brian Eno is,
as we all know, god.
Marcin
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 00:34:31 -0800
From: "carlos torres" <nipomoone@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Flying Vandermarks
>Hmmm, you're on the Spockmorgue list, right Davy?!?
how can i get on this list?
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 01:17:20 -0800
From: drool puddle kittens <connah@earthlink.net>
Subject: zorn does herbie nichols
the concert you recall was at Yoshi's in oakland......zorn, ben goldberg,
kenny wollesen, john schott, and a bassist named richard saunders.
probably early 1993.
(other shows in the same (NEA-funded)series were indeed at new langton
arts--for example, goldberg and wollesen with bobby bradford, playing john
carter tunes.)
- --graham connah
> From: "J Kan" <jim.kan@verizon.net>
>> I'm assuming folks are referring to the
>> Zorn (sax, natch), Ben Goldberg (clarinet),
>> Trevor Dunn (bass), and Kenny Wolleson (drums)
>> incarnation of Masada. [...]
>
>> Sadly, I've never heard any recordings of
>> that line up.
>
> I have a vague memory of that group being recorded for broadcast (on
> KPFA, maybe?), but playing Herbie Nichols compositions. Anybody have a
> copy? I think the show would have been at New Langton Arts in SF.
>
> Jim
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 09 Jan 1904 16:18:29 +0100
From: duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: d-mented R&B/hip hop
>
>
>
> Somebody was dissing French hip hop, and for all I know, the rest of it
> sucks, but I really like MC Solaar.
>
> Parry
>
> -
Hey, your open-mindedness is all to your credit!
I personally find the lack of originality, and especially the lack of swing,
of voice, to be exasperating in most French pop, including hip-hop.
There are a few rare exceptions for pop/rock, but I have'nt heard any yet in
hip-hop.
Mc Solaar seems to rap with the left side of his brain. Veeery exciting...
Cheers,
DY
- -
------------------------------
Date:
From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey)
Subject: OT Neptunes etc. (was Re: d-mented R&B/hip hop)
* parry@macconnect.com:
>The Neptunes, of Ol' Dirty Bastard fame (or is it Dirty Ol',
>I never could be bothered to get it straight),
It's Ol' Dirty Bastard. :)
The Neptunes are Chad Hugo and Pharrell Williams, the duo behind the
brilliant N*E*R*D LP, "In Search Of...", and various tunes by Jay-Z,
Mystikal, Beenie Man, Ludacris, Britney (gasp) etc., and yes, Kelis :).
>produced a brilliantly deranged hip-hop infused album by R&B singer
>Kelis a couple years ago. Great beats, and all kind of production
>and lyrical weirdness. The first time I heard the single, "Caught
>Out There," I just stood in the aisle of the record store and laughed.
>It's way past angry, the chorus is Kelis hollering "I hate you so much
>right now" and all the little things going on in the production are
>full of menace -- but then her voice on the verses is so gorgeous. It
>makes for a really bizarre contrast. I love the album so much, I may
>>eventually actually make myself listen to a whole Ol' Dirty Bastard
>album.
Ah yes, Kelis. I laughed at that song too, and couldn't stand it when
it was everywhere, but the Neptunes' production is what brought me back=
.
As you're a fan, I recommend you pick up a US copy of the N*E*R*D album
when it drops (March 12th now, or is it out already?) if you want to
hear what they can really do. The previous version (in the UK, and
elsewhere) was altered/unfinished, and released without their
permission.
Ol' Dirty's first record would be the one to check out, but be prepared
for some oddness/wackiness. I didn't spend much time with the second,
but that was the case with most Wu-related follow-up output ...
>Somebody was dissing French hip hop, and for all I know, the rest of
>it sucks, but I really like MC Solaar.
Early Solaar is the best (first couple of LPs), but there's much more
there if you look further. He's simply the name that first made it
internationally. If interested, check out the whole Marseilles scene
[the main group IAM, and spin off work from Shurik'n, Imhotep,
Akhenaton & Freeman (the last two don't move me as much as the first)]
plus related groups/artists like Faf Larage, 3eme Oeil, Intik (Arabic/
Algerian connection, and a nice reggae vibe), Oxmo Puccino, Fonky
Family etc. There's also Paris-based stuff like Supreme NTM, and
Minist=E8re Amer.
- -Patrick
NP: Helena "Azul"
OD: Coralie Cl=E9ment "Salle des pas perdus"
- -
------------------------------
Date:
From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey)
Subject: OT Re: French rap
>>BTW, Duncan, since you're in France ... I should point out that
>>there are some French acts in the above list. :)
* duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr>:
>Many thanx for the rich hip-hop recommendations, I'll definitely
>go shopping soon (will look for cassettes!)
>As for French rap, though, I happen to be allergic... (what I heard
>is to American rap what your corner deli's "French dressing" is to
>French cuisine...)
Well, I don't know what you heard, but judging from what you've said
you tend to like, and some of the big names that have bored you (Ice
Cube, Wu-Tang, Snoop Dog, Ice-T etc.), your cut off is definitely
different than mine. ;-) NWA, the first 2 Ice Cube LPs, the first
Snoop Dog, Dre's "Chronic" (and I like Clinton/P-Funk), the first
Wu & GZA/Genius, and even some mid-period Ice-T are all near classic
in my book. If you're willing to try (again), or perhaps something
you haven't heard ... give a listen to Solaar's first 2 LPs, IAM's
2nd and 3rd, Faf Larage's "C'est ma cause", Shurik'n's "O=F9 je vis",
Intik's "S/T", maybe 3eme Oeil's LP and Oxmo Puccino's "Op=E9ra puccino=
"
(it helps to like Biggie :) or mid-period Supreme NTM. Probably not
your cup of tea in the end, but who knows.
- -Patrick
NP: Helena "Azul"
OD: Coralie Cl=E9ment "Salle des pas perdus"
- -
------------------------------
Date:
From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey)
Subject: OT Re: freestyle fellowship/saul williams
* aaron chua <aaronchua22@yahoo.com>:
>also you should check out stuff w/ mikah 9 from the
>free stylefellowship. a recent release - ''timetable''
>is mostly archival stuff (radio spots parties etc)
>but is still incredible.includes the amazing piece
>w/ daddy kev of the lost angels ep.
I agree. I heartily recommend all the FF stuff (even their new
material), as well as solo work from Aceyalone, Mikah 9, P.E.A.C.E.
etc. The "Souldoubt" LP with Daddy Kev & (damn, I'm blanking ...)
is also nice!
>what do people think of the new saul williams.
If by "new" you mean "Amethyst Rock Star", I think it's brilliant,
and was a breath of fresh air when I was spinning it non-stop
early last year. :) I've seen Saul live with his band and they
can certainly "bring the noise/funk/whathaveyou". His lyrics/
poetry and delivery are unmatched for me, although some of Mike
Ladd's stuff comes close. The disc was produced by Rick Rubin,
and it shows. The track with Krust ("Coded Language") came out
earlier and is the centerpiece of his LP of the same name _and_
(I would argue_ "Amethyst...". A fave singer of mine, Esthero,
also makes a nice appearance. Saul had some stuff out earlier
on Big Dada (as 12"s, and on their first hip hop comp.) that's
worth it if you find yourself returning to "Amethyst...".
- -Patrick
NP: Helena "Azul"
OD: Coralie Cl=E9ment "Salle des pas perdus"
- -
------------------------------
Date:
From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey)
Subject: OT Re: abstract hip hop
* "Andrew" <ahorton@vt.edu>:
>I'm glad that everyone on here digs the Clouddead record....I love it.
>Mush's distro is pretty poor, though....you can hardly order anything
>from www.dirtyloop.com ......I wonder if they'll work out a better dea=
l?
Well, not _everyone_ loves it that much. ;-b I may have a more
deep-rooted problem with Anticon and hype though, so ...
It is bad that Mush can't get it's product out, but I would argue
that because _everyone_ should be able to hear Aesop's "Float",
and not so much because of the cDEAD disc/10"s. Anyway, I think
the rest of the world may have it better (for once) since the
cDEAD is on Big Dada outside the US, and is _everywhere_ I look. :)
- -P
NP: Helena "Azul"
OD: Coralie Cl=E9ment "Salle des pas perdus"
- -
------------------------------
Date:
From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey)
Subject: OT Doublemoon (was: Re: Burhan Ocal and Jamaaladeen Tacuma)
* "Brummer, Charlie" <brummer@agron.iastate.edu>:
>A while back, someone mentioned a new CD "Groove alla Turca" by Burhan
>Ocal and Jamaaladeen Tacuma. I've been unable to track it down anywhe=
re.
>Does anyone know of a source?
I'm inquiring about the Doublemoon press below, but I thought the UK (?=
)
version on "Birds & B-(something?)" (cat: BB2001) was well distributed.
I've seen that one (ugly multicolored digipak) in chain stores in Canad=
a
and the eastern US. If it isn't at amazon.com/cdnow.com, you might try
looking it up at hmv.com, hmv.co.uk, amazon.co.uk, amazon.de, amazon.fr
etc. etc.
* Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com>
>That's out on Doublemoon Records:
>http://www.doublemoon.com.tr/eng/home_eng.htm
>http://www.doublemoon.com.tr/eng/catalogue/catalouge.htm
>Amazon sells some of his other releases but not this one
Right, so does anyone know where one can get the Doublemoon catalog
outside of ordering from Turkey? I have a few titles that I've been
lucky to find, and have seen _a few_ as imports in North American
stores, but nothing else. The artwork for the the UK (?) issue
of "Groove alla Turca" that seems to be everywhere is horrendous,
so I wouldn't mind the original to replace my CD-R copy ...
Thanks
- -Patrick
NP: Helena "Azul"
OD: Coralie Cl=E9ment "Salle des pas perdus"
- -
------------------------------
Date:
From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey)
Subject: OT Re: hip hop/ninja/click-hop
* "Andrew" <ahorton@vt.edu>:
>Ninja Tune really puts out great records. I thought that the recent
>bonobo was one of the weaker things they've released in a while, but
>Flanger's "outer space/inner space" is SO DAMN GOOD! Has anyone heard
>it? It's seriously funky...some compare it to Hancock's really out
>there stuff.
Haven't made up my mind about the Bonobo, but I agree on the Flanger!
Pick up all three if you don't have them already ...
>I'm not that impressed with the Big Dada stuff.....Roots Manuva's
>"run come save me" was weak, and I've never been a fan of Mike Ladd
>or the Infesticons.
Wow, really? Another area where we differ then. ;) I enjoy both
Roots Manuva albums, as well as all New Flesh/Part 2, Gamma/Juice
Aleem, Ty, plus other Brit-ish like Blak Twang, Phi-Life Cypher,
Skitz, Taskforce, Braintax, Mark B/Blade, Rodney P, as well as the
collabs Ice & TA have done with rappers. Mike Ladd's first record
on Mercury, his "...Afterfuture", and the Infesticons are staples
here. Didn't much care for his live record though.
>I'm also really interested in the latest trend- "Click Hop"- basically=
,
>glitchy, crunchy hip hop. Prefuse 73 and the Tigerbeat 6 and Mille
>Plateaux crowd have picked up on it.....
Some of what I've heard that would fall into this category (all these
horrible names for new "genres"!) is OK, but I'm wondering if the
style will become more defined. Everything bleeds into something
else these days (which is fine, but) ... Kid 606 has always been
a joke to me (maybe that's what he's going for?), which has led me
to ignore other Tigerbeat stuff (I should try Cex again though ;-b).
I've got a fair bit of older MP/Force Inc. stuff, but haven't paid
attention to them lately (with the exception of the new K=F6ner).
>MP recently put out a "click hop" compilation called "electric ladylan=
d"
>or something like that, and it was VERY disappointing. It was mostly
>>glitch-house and more drum-n-bass type stuff....no real "click hop."
Haven't heard this and I doubt I will. I had my days with the "Macro
Dub", illbient, and original "Electric Ladyland" comps back in the
mid-90's so I'm kind of "off it" now. I'm not positive, but I thought
the idea of this new "EL" comp. was to have glitch/clicks 'n' cuts/
tech/minimal house folks _remix_ the older dub-hop/distorto-d'n'b
crowd ... can't remember who's on it so I don't know for sure.
- -Patrick
NP: Helena "Azul"
OD: Coralie Cl=E9ment "Salle des pas perdus"
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 01 Feb 2002 08:18:58 -0500
From: Mike Chamberlain <mikec@rocler.qc.ca>
Subject: Re: jazz punk
on 1/30/02 5:23 PM, Skip Heller at velaires@earthlink.net wrote:
>
>
>> From: Mike Rizzi <rizzi@browbeat.com>
>> Reply-To: rizzi@browbeat.com
>> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 13:44:46 -0800 (PST)
>> To: wlt4@mindspring.com
>> Cc: zorn-list@lists.xmission.com
>> Subject: Re: jazz punk
>>
>> To me, when I hear jazz punk, I think Minutemen
>> (they were an early SST band). I still love their
>> music after all these years, and I clearly remember
>> when D. Boon died. <sniff>
>>
>> mike
>>
> Still LA's greatest contribution via punk rock (and, before anybody counters
> with the obvious, at least one member of X agrees with me on this).
>
> skip h
Probably just false modesty on his or her part. :-)
- --Mike
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #732
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