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2002-01-30
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #727
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Thursday, January 31 2002 Volume 03 : Number 727
In this issue:
-
Prefuse/Warp Hop
Re: punk jazz
Re: hip hop
Re: Sine Me a Song of Songmy
Re: Flying Vandermarks
Odp: Odp: Zorn / Douglas (was: Re: The Gift)
Re: Wreckers of Civilization (long-ish)
Re: weather report
OT-Long Re: deranged/good rap recommendations
Re: mark dresser trio.
Re: mark dresser trio.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 02:04:39 -0500
From: "Andrew" <ahorton@vt.edu>
Subject: Prefuse/Warp Hop
> I strongly urge all of you to listen to Prefuse 73 on Warp
> label. also Delarosa and Asora, done by the
> same person, but more the reverse of Prefuse by being electronic music
> infused with hip hop vibe, if that makes sense (?) the hip-hop is more
> dominant on the Prefuse 73 album. some rapping, some
> not. some chopped up blenderized rapping. extremely high quality.
> also East Flatbush Project has a really great hip-hop esque remix album
> featuring Autechre, Squarepusher...and other way-cool dudes.
> go to warprecords.com, and scroll down in their Links section (hard to
find,
> small word located in the top right) for all the Prefuse links and
> sites and samples. quickly!
The Prefuse record is super-good. I really like the track with Sam Prekop
from the Sea and Cake. The Delarosa and Asora stuff is ok....I find it to be
much less interesting, though. It's more "glitchy ambient" with the
occasional crunchy hip hop beat sneaking in.
Has anyone heard Scott Herren's other project, Savath and Savalas? It's
similar to the Prefuse and Delarosa stuff, but has more of a
Tortoise/Chicago Underground/Hefty vibe.
andrew
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 23:47:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Ryan Novak <ryan_novak@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: punk jazz
> Since then I haven't heard the phrase much but stuff
that might fit would be
> Naked City, The Ex w/Cora, Last Exit, etc.
Apparently Blind Idiot God (and
> maybe other late SST bands?) might qualify but I've
never heard them.
Okay, after hearing more Don Caballero, I'm sorry I
mentioned it in the punk-jazz thing- pretty good, but
not at all jazz. Their song-title "The Peter Criss
Jazz" is quite funny though. Weather Report doing a
song entitled "punk jazz" is pretty funny too, I'm
actually kind of curious now how Weather Report
envisioned that particular hybrid.
- ---Ryan N.
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 23:51:38 -0800 (PST)
From: SUGAR in their vitamins? <yol@esophagus.com>
Subject: Re: hip hop
On Thu, 31 Jan 2002, Andrew wrote:
> Other stuff.....the Anticon label/collective is great. A bunch of white guys
> from the midwest making post-punk influenced hip hop out of their bedrooms.
> Clouddead, Sole, Slug, Deep Puddle Dynamics, Gel, Reaching Quiet, Dose
> One......it's a big, incestuous crew, and most of it's really interesting.
i second the anticon recommendation.
anything on ninja tune is great.
a lot of hip-hop, trip-hop and so on...
the ten year anniversary compilation 'xen cuts'
is excellent.
and don't forget the dj shadow/cut chemist
'brainfreeze' records.
the 'turntables by the bay' series of compilations...
Yes. Beautiful, wonderful nature. Hear it sing to us: *snap* Yes. natURE.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:43:43 +0000
From: Richard Gardner <richard.gardner@colourtone.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Sine Me a Song of Songmy
Thanks to those who replied regarding the Freddie Hubbard album.
In the end they were intriguing enough to send me out for a copy. It was
re-released last year on Collectibles.
Having given it a listen I must agree with Michael Fitzgerald who mailed me
privately:
> Masterpiece? No. I would say your suspicions are correct. This really ought
> not be called a Freddie Hubbard album. He and his band (which is an
> excellent lineup) are not the focus of the recording.
The album is very much part of its time (1970). The quintet is immersed in a
sea of moog, choirs, string orchestra and tape manipulation. The whole thing
is really a long piece by Ilhan Mimaroglu who wrote a lot of the orchestral
stuff and even some of the poetry. There are a number of poems recited
including Turkish and Vietnamese stuff with a short piece by Che Guevara at
the end. There are times when I found it embarrassing but there are also
some great moments and some fine trumpet playing. It really was an attempt
to push back the limits. The re-release comes coupled with a rather lack
lustre 1976 album called Echoes of Blue.
Even Collectibles point out 2 tunes from the Echoes album as the standouts!
Just for your information.
Richard Gardner
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:51:38
From: "William York" <william_york@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Flying Vandermarks
>>My favorite "jazz punk metal" thingy is still easily "Destroy All >>Music"
>>by Flying Luttenbachers (at this moment with Ken Vandermark).
>Uhh...what's this? The Flying Luttenbachers are currently on tour >here on
>the west coast and if Vandermark's with them, I need to go >check them out
>ASAP. Anyone have any info on this?
Hmmm, you're on the Spockmorgue list, right Davy?!? Anyway, it's a little
late -- they played SF on Sunday and Oakland (with Spockmorgue/Bay Area
noise/whatever scene "stars" Burmese and Total Shutdown) Tuesday. The
current lineup is Weasel Walter (only permanent member) on drums, plus two
el. bassists. Not "punk jazz" anymore -- their new style is very complex
alien prog rock (with some similarities to Ruins and Magma, whom they do a
cover of) mixed with a death metal/grindcore influenced drumming style
(i.e., lots of blastbeats and double bass drumming). The level of
stamina/detail involved in some of the new stuff is pretty absurd ... I like
it.
WY
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:56:33 +0100
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl>
Subject: Odp: Odp: Zorn / Douglas (was: Re: The Gift)
Efren wrote:
> ironically, I find TBT's "Live in Europe" their
> weakest release. We don't seem to agree, Marcin :-)
Give me just one more chance: I meant a live performance i attended here at
Warsaw, which WAS great. I fail to be impressed by any of the discs, or - in
fact - i was impressed for a week, but raraley came back to those albums.
> As to "Witness" I love both the album and was
> impressed by their live performance in BCN- but
> considering that these shows are rare here, don't pay
> much attention to my appraisal. Comes out of
> desperation.
Had you lived in Warsaw, you'd see what desperation can be.
Best,
Marcin
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 09:27:35 +0000 (GMT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Nick=20Cain?= <npc_4@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Wreckers of Civilization (long-ish)
<Has anybody read this history of COUM Transmissions?
It looks good & I've always thought reading about
Throbbing Gristle more interesting than hearing them
but it's fairly expensive.>
Yes, it is incredibly expensive for what it is - this
appears to be mainly because of the layout of the
text, which is novel but which wastes a lot of white
space. Had the same amount of text been laid out in a
"regular" manner the book would probably have been
about 40% shorter, and, one presumes, 40% cheaper - it
retailed in the UK for ú20, which was just too much. I
spoke to four or five people around the time the book
came out, all of whom were interested but were put off
by the steep price.
<<I guess it depends on what you are looking for. If
you want an account of what GPO etc. did before COUM,
as COUM, and then as TG, this is the most detailed
thing there is (influences, the performance
art context, and so on).>>
I agree with the comment about COUM/TG/GP-O being more
interesting to read about than listen to, though I was
encouraged to buy the book by seeing a screening of
Derek Jarman's "In The Shadow Of The Sun" (I may be
remembering this title incorrectly), which has a very
good TG soundtrack. The book itself is very strong on
detail, and does a competent job of assembling all the
available documentation and ordering it into a
coherent and easily traceable timeline, from GP-O's
early creative/aesthetic awakenings in the mid- to
late '60s, right up to the demise of TG in - when was
it again? - the early '80s?
I found it a lot of it very interesting, largely
because I knew very knew little about the COUM/TG/GP-O
history, and also because of personal topicality - at
the time I read it I was living 10 mins' walk from the
part of Hackney (a still rather grim and dangerous
area of east London) where the old Death Factory was
located. If you don't know much about the topic, it's
quite a fascinating read, particularly the
early/mid-'70s period, before GP-O got his
self-proclaimed genius schtick up and running.
<<In the end, I was a little disappointed, as I was
hoping that the author, Simon Ford, would go beyond
*description* to offer us some *critical
appreciation*--what did they accomplish in their time,
why should we bother with COUM and TG after all these
years?! (I am sure some readers will disagree with
this and say there is plenty of appreciation in the
book ...) I am not asking for anything terribly fancy
or, um, academic [though I don't break out in rash
when academic drivel hits me, like other listslaves
seem to do], just what a magazine like _The Wire_ does
in every issue (or are they academic wankers,
too?!).>>
I agree, it could have been improved by a more
thorough end analysis of what COUM/TG/GP-O "achieved",
what impact they had on those who followed them, and
why anyone should pay attention today. I also didn't
think Ford did a very good job of locating COUM within
the context of UK society during the period of their
existence, when the nature of the environment of
mid-'70s England was such an important factor in what
they were and what they did.
<<For example, much of my fascination with COUM/TG
comes from the tireless efforts of the group members
to claim terrific importance and influence (during
their existence and since then). Now, many artists do
that, but shouldn't the author of a long book on these
guys try to look beyond the
essentially self-serving rhetoric?!>>
Yes, GP-O is an at times astonishingly blatant
bullshit artist (witness his claims to a "special
friendship" with Joy Division's Ian Curtis, a
contentious topic touched on in Ford's book), and his
- - and the others' - chutzpah/blag artistry is not
really treated by Ford with the skepticism it
deserves. The tone of the book overall is perhaps a
little too neutral and uncritical, which doesn't help.
Ultimately, it's a detailed and interesting book, but
a lot of this is down to the fact that it is the first
really comprehensive history to've been published on
the topic. And, because of its reliance on secondary
sources, large chunks of it read, like most of Mike
Barnes's (very overrated) book about Captain
Beefheart, like a fairly basic compendium of press clippings.
=====
www.info.net.nz/opprobrium
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1904 16:04:35 +0100
From: duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: weather report
I personally feel W=2ER=2E was a revolution in the early-mid 70's, with thei=
r
wholly fresh, open approach to sound color, soloing (or not), form, composit=
ion
(from very written to very loose), open space=2E What a breath of fresh air =
from
the whole tired standardized, post-bop jazz form and instrumentation!
I particularly appreciate "I sing the body electric", "Sweetnighter"
(-"Boogie-woogie Waltz" is an all-time funk fave of mine),"Mysterious
Traveler"(-what a palette of colors and forms and dynamics and styles!), the
following one ("Mr Gone"? with Jaco and "Teen Town", etc=2E), wonderfully ri=
ch
and tuneful=2E And on and on until about their (1980?) live double album "8:=
30"=2E
Saw them live in 1979 and they blew my mind=2E Zawinul seemed possessed, dri=
ven,
and so did the percussionists=2E=2E=2E grand Kabuki theater! Shorter in comp=
lete
contrast detached and low key=2E And I still have'nt quite recovered from Ja=
co's
spotlight solo where he (among other things) landed from a full spin in the =
air
right on to his distortion pedal with a quote from Beethoven's 5th that shoo=
k
the house=2E=2E=2E
In the next decade, the Zawinul-Shorter partnership seems, as would be
inevitable, to have lost some of their spark and imagination=2E
But thank you a thousand times, guys for having opened our ears and windows =
to
volcanoes and galaxies and irony and the sweet bite of desire=2E=2E=2E
DY=2E
Skip Heller a =E9crit :
> Just wondering -- what is the list consensus on Weather Reoprt? Personall=
y,
> there's some stuff in there I think is just fantastic ("Three Views Of A
> Secret", "A Remark You made"), and a lot of stuff that never got me all th=
at
> excited=2E But people really seem to love or hate them as a rule=2E
>
> skip h
>
> -
- -
------------------------------
Date:
From: pm.carey@utoronto.ca (Patrick Carey)
Subject: OT-Long Re: deranged/good rap recommendations
* duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr>:
>Would be very grateful for any other recommendation(s) for creative,
>insane, deranged rap.
* "Andrew" <ahorton@vt.edu>
>Dr. Octagon's "the octagonycologist" (spelling is something like that)
>that came out around '97 is a classic of "deranged" hip hop. Kool Keit=
h
>(you might want to check out his Black Elvis/Lost in Space record) rap=
s
>over music by Dan the Automator with scratches by Q-bert. A few tracks
>on there- "waiting list", "blue flowers" - were instant classics.
Agreed on DocOc's "Octagonecologyst" (it was '96), but I'd pick up Keit=
h's
"Sex Style" and the Cenobites LP (on Fondle 'Em) before "Black Elvis/Li=
S"
or _anything_ he's done since.
For all that "horror-core", over-the-top offensive, "insane & deranged"
stuff (some here would fit in well as the "Whitehouse"s, "Sutcliffe
Jugend"s, or "Slogun"s of hip hop), you might try: Esham, Halfbreed,
Brother Lynch Hung, Mad Insanity...and on the lighter side Necro & Cage=
.
* "carlos torres" <nipomoone@hotmail.com>
>a new group ive been listening to, while not as deranged as you may be
>looking for, is clouddead. they have a fresh style along with great
>free verse lyrics.
Hate to do this, but I think most everything Anticon/Mush and even
Rhymesayers related (with some exceptions) is waaaaaaay overhyped/rated=
!
cLOUDDEAD is three core members of the "Anticon collective" (Dose One,
Why? & Odd Nosdam) for those that don't know. So many seem to claim
them (Anticon) as indie/exp/underground etc. hip hop saviors, when for
the most part, IMO, they aren't doing much that's new, and many others
do it better. I will say that if you're going to venture in their
direction, the cDEAD record is probably one of the better ones to hear =
...
* jason tors <jasontors@yahoo.com>:
>these suggestions are great, please keep them coming. Any word on
>Aesop Rock with the album Labor Days?
F**king brilliant! ... Aesop & Blockhead can do no wrong in my opinion.
If you get "Labor Days" and like it, grab "Float" (Mush), and (if you
can find them) "Appleseed" & "Music For Earthworms".
* "Andrew" <ahorton@vt.edu>:
>Aesop Rock's "labor days" was another of my top-five of '01. The guy's
>probably the most creative MC working right now- he spits lines that
>remind one of Thomas Pynchon and David Foster Wallace, and is entirely
>free of braggadocio and bullshit. It's a solid record with some beauti=
ful
>>language and amazing skill.
You summed this one (and Aesop) up quite nicely. Thanks! :)
* duncan youngerman <y-man@wanadoo.fr>:
>Recommendations for "good" hip-hop welcome!
If you don't mind me jumping in here, I will. Problem is, this is
already off-topic, and the list is looooooong. Some things that have,
and haven't been mentioned that I file under "good" hip hop:
Company Flow, Mr. Len, Juggaknots, Siah & Yeshua, Sonic Sum, Mike Ladd/
Infesticons, Anti-Pop Consortium, New Kingdom, J-Live, The Coup, Non
Phixion, Dalek, M.F. Doom/KMD, Afu-Ra, Swollen Members, Nobody, Divine
Styler, Roots Manuva, Ty, Gamma/Juice Aleem, Taskforce, Lewis Parker, R=
eq,
Ice/Techno Animal, Blak Twang, Phi-Life Cypher, New Flesh For Old/Part =
2,
Orishas, Aceyalone, Freestyle Fellowship, People Under The Stairs, DJ
Vadim/Andr=E9 Gurov, DJ Krush/Ryu, Cappablack, King Giddra/Zeebra,
Rappagariya, Saul Williams,
IAM, Shurik'n, Faf Larage, 3eme Oeil, Intik, Oxmo Puccino, _most_ Autom=
ator
projects, Del/Hieroglyphics, Blackalicious/Quannum, Skitz, Mark B, Blad=
e,
Jurassic 5, Dilated Peoples, Arsonists (first), GZA (first), Styles Of
Beyond, Braintax, Push Button Objects, ATCQ, Pharcyde, Tea Time (w/ Ato=
m
Heart),
Mos Def/Blackstar, Jeru (early), Gang Starr, Ice Cube (early), NWA, Nas
(early), Roots, 3rd Bass, PE ........ the list goes on, and on.
Hope _some_ of this is of use. Someone suggested heading over to Sandb=
ox
Automatic, which I second. For _specific_ recommendations, just ask. =
BTW,
Duncan, since you're in France ... I should point out that there are so=
me
French acts in the above list. :)
- -Patrick
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 05:38:59 -0500
From: Alan Lankin <lankina@att.net>
Subject: Re: mark dresser trio.
I'm not sure what the moisture project is, but the Mark Dresser Trio has
a new CD on Cryptogramophone called Aquifer. It's an interesting CD;
besides Dresser on bass (sometimes using extended techniques), it
includes Matthias Ziegler on electro-acoustic flutes and Denman Maroney
on prepared piano.
Alan Lankin
- --
Jazzmatazz
http://jazzmatazz.home.att.net
lankina@att.net
UFOrbK8@aol.com wrote:
> the mark dresser trio is playing at my school (go figure) for free for
> students to four films... [...]
> - can anyone tell me about the moisture project?
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 05:39:15 -0500
From: Alan Lankin <lankina@att.net>
Subject: Re: mark dresser trio.
I'm not sure what the moisture project is, but the Mark Dresser Trio has
a new CD on Cryptogramophone called Aquifer. It's an interesting CD;
besides Dresser on bass (sometimes using extended techniques), it
includes Matthias Ziegler on electro-acoustic flutes and Denman Maroney
on prepared piano.
Alan Lankin
- --
Jazzmatazz
http://jazzmatazz.home.att.net
lankina@att.net
UFOrbK8@aol.com wrote:
> the mark dresser trio is playing at my school (go figure) for free for
> students to four films... [...]
> - can anyone tell me about the moisture project?
>
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #727
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