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Zorn List Digest       Tuesday, January 29 2002       Volume 03 : Number 718



In this issue:
-
       Re: David Vorhaus/White Noise
       Come Org. tapes, SJ "Bloodfucking"
       Re: 4' 33"
       New Music in RealAudio, Mappings for the week beginning January 22, 2002
       Re: godel, escher, bach, xenakis.  non-zc.
       RE: John Luther Adams query
       RE: Wanna Buy a Bridge? (was Mr. Smith)
       Fujii/ Feldman/ February
       godel's incompleteness theorem 1.  non-zc, but interesting content about a piece i'm working on.
       Bar KoKhba
       Re: Bar KoKhba
       Re: David Vorhaus
       Re: godel's incompleteness theorem 1.  non-zc, but interesting [?] content about a piece i'm working on.
       RE: godel's incompleteness theorem 1.  non-zc, but interesting [?] content about a piece i'm working on.
       Online Bookstores (NO ZORN CONTENT - SORRY!)
       Re: Bar KoKhba

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 28 Jan 2002 18:43:27 -0800
From: Dan Given <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: David Vorhaus/White Noise

>        Re: David Vorhaus/White Noise
> From: "thomas chatterton" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Re: David Vorhaus/White Noise
>
> >From: "M. Pathos" <[e-mail]>
> >
> >Is anyone here familiar with the work of David Vorhaus, perhaps better
> >known as White Noise?  What does it sound like? Any
> >recommendations for an album to start with?
>
> Start and end with White Noise - An Electric Storm, the first album released
> under that moniker in 1970(?), spooky high voltage proto-industrial
> electronic textures, Dr. Who meets Stockhausen at Lucifer's Black Mass, with
> some rock'n'roll sensibility stirred in. The second album (White Noise 2)
> was more melodic ala Clearlight, later AshRa not too engaging as I remember
> it. Also the first one is around on CD, definitely a classic of sorts...

Gotta say I didn't find a  whole lot worthwhile on the first White Noise album. I think maybe my problem was that I bought it because it had Paul Lytton listed as percussionist.  Not really a standout moment for Lytton -- something the equivalent of buying Sonic Boom/EAR  (or something like that) because Eddie Prevost was on it.

Dan


Find the best deals on the web at AltaVista Shopping!
http://www.shopping.altavista.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 03:01:36 +0000 (GMT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Come Org. tapes, SJ "Bloodfucking"

WANTED.

Copies of the Come Org. "Examples Of Cannibalism" and
"The Yorkshire Ripper" cassettes covers, and if
possible, the booklet from "Examples..." also.

I'll gladly pay all costs.

I can offer you the Come Org. "Necrophilia" and "Ted
Bundy / Ed Kemper" cassettes and covers.

I'm also interested in the other similar Come Org.
cassettes.

Please reply to : [e-mail]

Also want any information on the Sutcliffe Jugend
"Bloodfucking" tape bootleg. It exists...




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 19:24:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Ronald Hiznay <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: 4' 33"

[thinks, but doesn't say aloud, this is the
performance piece k8 is
performing on the listserv for at least the next 24
hours.]


I agree, I think the piece itself is all about what a
bunch of very serious artist/critics/art lovers etc.
on a listserve do when someone plays some lighthearted
prank. Rather than playing Tangelo remarks or silence,
the piece is playing the stuffy intelectals. I think
I'm going to go to the Archives, dig up the entire
thread, type it into a computer text reader and
release it on CD(the only thing more rewarding than
comming up with such a piece would be the 'Stealing'
of it as a piece in it's own)....

mushmush


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Great stuff seeking new owners in Yahoo! Auctions!
http://auctions.yahoo.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 22:38:04 -0600
From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: New Music in RealAudio, Mappings for the week beginning January 22, 2002

Hi y'all,

This week on Mappings <http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/>,
you'll hear new music for solo strings, with and without electronics,
by Martin Bartlett, John Cage, Charlotte Hug, Gyorgy Ligeti, Kaffe
Mathews, LaDonna Smith, and David Tudor, with performances by Irvine
Arditti, Malcolm Goldstein, Garth Knox, Takehisa Kosugi, Stefano
Scodanibbio, and Frances-Marie Uitti.

The show went online Monday evening around 10:00 PM (-0600 GMT) and
will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program
(featuring new music by Cornelius Cardew, Jo Kondo, Frode
Gjerstad/Derek Bailey/John Stevens, Yannis Kyriakides, Misha
Mengelberg, Olga Neuwirth, Luigi Nono, Linda Catlin Smith, AW
Sutrisna, Tibor Szemzo) is still available in the Mappings archive
<http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/index1.htm>, where you
can also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998.

Hope you tune in to the program.

Bests,

Herb


- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 23:53:24 -0500
From: Mathieu =?iso-8859-1?Q?B=E9langer?=  <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: godel, escher, bach, xenakis.  non-zc.

Hello,

>well, i'm reading godel, escher, bach, the eternal golden braid, for
>the  third >time, and i'm using godel's incompleteness theorem in a
>very complicated piece >involving recursion and reflexion, for solo
>viola with  possible accompaniment >in supercollider.  the idea is
>to combine 4 reflexive  and/or recursive items  >- the recursive
>equation for the julia/mandlebrot  set, godel's
>incompleteness >theorem, the reflexive phrase "i would prefer not
>to" from herman mehlville's >"bartleby the scrivener", and platypi.

Are you using the first or the second theorem? To be honest, I
absolutely don't see how either of the incompleteness theorems could
be use in piece... Recursive functions, yes, but this?

But, in the case of the first theorem, how does not being able to
prove the Godel's statement in a consistant theory T (assuming T is
recursively etc) or not being able to prove the non-consistency of
the mentionned statement in a omega-consistant theory T is related to
music? Or, in the case of the second theorem, what is the relation
between not being to prove the consistancy of a theory T in T where T
contains Peano's arithmetic and is omega-consistant... Maybe it's
obvious, but I really don't see it at this time of the day...

Both of these theorems have very restricted applications, basically
to Peano's arithmetic, so I honestly wonder. The consistancy of a
theory and music for solo viola... hmmm...

Just curious...

Mathieu

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 23:55:16 -0600
From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: John Luther Adams query

Thanks to both Steve & Kate for the JLA information & pointers. I
may have some more questions, but that'll do for now.

Bests,

Herb

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 02:36:58 -0500
From: "josephneff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: Wanna Buy a Bridge? (was Mr. Smith)

Hello,
     ...don't know if this is on CD, I was actually listening to a LP bought
used about seven years ago. Great stuff. Listening to it reminds me that I
need to pick up the Kleenex/Lilliput collection on Kill Rock Stars. Also,
can anybody provide any opinions about the new CD reissue of the German
group Malaria!. They appear promising.

    I remain...

    Joseph

    NP: Peter Jefferies- "Last Great Challenge in a Dull World" CD
    NR: John Barth- "The Floating Opera"

"Every piece of created work is the tomb of its creator" William Gaddis

- -----Original Message-----
From: Skip Heller [mailto:[e-mail]]
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 3:13 PM
To: josephneff; [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Mr. Smith




> From: "josephneff" <[e-mail]>

> NP: V/A "Wanna Buy a Bridge?" LP- T.V. Personalities "Part Time Punks"

This on CD? It was such a staple of my errant youth.

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 07:26:43
From: "doron galili" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fujii/ Feldman/ February

hello!
can anyone tell me if there is a new / american / international/ re -
release of fujii+Feldman's April shower coming up this february?  heard
something of it, but still pretty sure it was already released in japan. any
information about that??
thanks,
d.




_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 02:34:26 EST
From: [e-mail]
Subject: godel's incompleteness theorem 1.  non-zc, but interesting content about a piece i'm working on.

In a message dated 01.28.02 23:52:32, [e-mail] writes:

>Are you using the first or the second theorem? To be honest, I
>absolutely don't see how either of the incompleteness theorems could
>be use in piece... Recursive functions, yes, but this?

first theorem.

>
>But, in the case of the first theorem, how does not being able to
>prove the Godel's statement in a consistant theory T (assuming T is
>recursively etc) or not being able to prove the non-consistency of
>the mentionned statement in a omega-consistant theory T is related to
>music? Or, in the case of the second theorem, what is the relation
>between not being to prove the consistancy of a theory T in T where T
>contains Peano's arithmetic and is omega-consistant... Maybe it's
>obvious, but I really don't see it at this time of the day...

none of it is obvious, aside from the fact that the recursion is interesting.
 the idea <as of yet unworkable for various reasons>, is to generate a set of
numbers based on a pseudo-alan forte analysis of the subject, countersubject,
and answer to bach's c minor fugue.  i did all that by hand, rolling them all
over so they're between 0-11, and then started adding them together and came
up with some really weird pitch sets.

the second step which got seriously fucked over by my computer conveniently
destroying about 2 megs of MAX/MSP programming (over 40 hours) was to feed
those digits into the julia recursion problem set, and generate a string of
numbers, each of which was then subsequently reduced to an integer between
0-11.

the third step was to feed that principle (somehow, unclear to me still at
any hour of the day, just getting my first grips on higher math beyond P.M.),
into theorem 1, and somehow it is possible because i figured it out somehow
and wrote it down somewhere.

i then took the phrase "i would prefer not to" - reflexive - gave each letter
its appropriate number, 0-25, then rolled over the others, fed those into the
julia set, etc. etc.

the platypus is just an interesting feature at this point, recursive because
it is both mammal and fowl, in a way it has evolved upon itself to become
something nothing else is -- and that's that.

there is way more to this, this is the Half-Assed Guide to k8's Viola Piece
which Isn't Started.

love,
  k8.


>
>Both of these theorems have very restricted applications, basically
>to Peano's arithmetic, so I honestly wonder. The consistancy of a
>theory and music for solo viola... hmmm...



- -----
[ .n o t h i n g  i s  w h a t  i s  s a i d. ]

.k a t e  p e t e r s o n.
.c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r.
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>
<A HREF="http://www.icefoundation.org">http://www.icefoundation.org</A>
(roundtable)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 09:07:52 +0100
From: Alban Jacques <[e-mail]>
Subject: Bar KoKhba

Hi,
I m just looking for some live session of bar kokhba... And i read on
the unofficial masada site that there were some west cost shows of
masada.... Where i can find some records of them ???
Help me
Alban

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 09:23:34 +0100
From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bar KoKhba

Can't remember who exactly was in the "West Coast" line-up of Masada
(which is different from Bar Kokhba...), but there are NO official
recordings of any other line-up than Zorn/Douglas/Baron/Cohen... (And
I'm still hoping that one day at least one Masada CD feat. Ribot will
come out; I've seen it live - it was too good to be true...)

patRice

np: Drahdiwaberl, McRonalds Massaker
nr: Inge Klompmakers, Japanese Erotic Prints


Alban Jacques wrote:

> Hi,
> I m just looking for some live session of bar kokhba... And i read on
> the unofficial masada site that there were some west cost shows of
> masada.... Where i can find some records of them ???
> Help me
> Alban
>
> -


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 08:20:23 +0000
From: Richard Gardner <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: David Vorhaus

on 28/1/02 5:31 PM, Zorn List Digest at
[e-mail] wrote:

> Is anyone here familiar with the work of David Vorhaus, perhaps better known
> as White Noise? I came across an article describing his techniques recently
> and his work sounds interesting in theory. What does it sound like? Any
> recommendations for an album to start with?

I have the original vinyl White Noise album. It's good early synth stuff.
Very atmospheric. I am at work now and don't have it to hand but if my
memory serves me right White Noise was a collaboration between Vorhaus and
Delia Derbyshire one of the giants of electronic music in the 50's and 60's.
She was instrumental in starting the BBC Radiophonic Workshop (which among
other things made the Doctor Who theme music).

The album is heavy on strange aural landscapes and the one I remember best
is the long track that begins Side Two called (I think) The Visitation. This
is spoken by a man who has died in a car crash. The end, as he tries to
contact his lover through squalls of frequency shifter and ring modulator
and her distant crying fades and rises is stunning, hair raising stuff.

I have found 2 websites but the original album appears to be out of print.


www.ampmusic.demon.co.uk/whitenoise.html

www.whitenoise.org.uk/

Richard Gardner


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 03:28:17 -0500
From: [e-mail] (Benjamin Pequet)
Subject: Re: godel's incompleteness theorem 1.  non-zc, but interesting [?] content about a piece i'm working on.

At 02:34 AM 1/29/2002, [e-mail] wrote:
>there is way more to this, this is the Half-Assed Guide to k8's Viola Piece
>which Isn't Started.

That's an awful lot of chatter for something "which Isn't Started" [sic].
Perhaps if you would write less to the zorn-list, ...

Even on-topic posts from you quickly turn into a bragging session.

NB: you would do everyone a service if you stopped assuming that the vast
silent majority of potential admirers (the 698 pairs of eyes staring, and
that you are very well aware of, based on what I gather from your posts)
necessarily find your ramblings of any interest.


- ----
"I have often regretted my speech, never my silence." -- Xenocrates
(396-314 B.C.)

"It is better to be silent and thought a fool than to open one's mouth and
remove all doubt." -- Mark Twain


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 09:42:47 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?=22Vuilleumier=2C_St=E9phane=22?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: RE: godel's incompleteness theorem 1.  non-zc, but interesting [?] content about a piece i'm working on.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Benjamin Pequet [mailto:[e-mail]]=20
>Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 9:28 AM
>To: [e-mail]
>Subject: Re: godel's incompleteness theorem 1. non-zc, but=20
>interesting [?] content about a piece i'm working on.
>
>Even on-topic posts from you quickly turn into a bragging session.
>[SNIP]
>NB: you would do everyone a service if you stopped assuming=20
>that the vast silent majority of potential admirers (the 698 pairs of
eyes=20
>staring, and that you are very well aware of, based on what I gather
from=20
>your posts) necessarily find your ramblings of any interest.

Seconded. Over.=20
S=20

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 09:48:40 +0100
From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: Online Bookstores (NO ZORN CONTENT - SORRY!)

Hey boys & girls...

I'm wondering whether any of you can recommend good online bookstores?

I've usually been quite happy with Amazon's services, but there are
books that I'm interested in that unfortunately they do not carry...

Barnes & Noble have a greater selection as far as my taste is concerned,
but the way they pack the books up I can't handle; I usually get most
books with pumped corners...

Any other suggestions?

patRice


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 10:05:34 +0100
From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Bar KoKhba

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

- ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01C1A8AC.7DDC10A0
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    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Two 1998 tapes of Radio shows exist, from Dutch Radio 4: two sets from =
one show. I believe it was either in the Sju-huis Utrecht, or the =
Bimhuis, Amsterdam. Zorn was there, but didn't play. I recall it was =
much more busy (more people playing at once) than the first Bar Kokhba =
disc.

Can't give you any details pon personnel though, it used people from the =
recording, and other Tzadik related musicians. Try to get in touch with =
either VPRO or NPS through their websites (those are the two radio =
stations most likely to have broadcasted the shows originally).

Regards, Remco Takken

  Alban Jacques wrote:

  > Hi,
  > I m just looking for some live session of bar kokhba... And i read =
on
  > the unofficial masada site that there were some west cost shows of
  > masada.... Where i can find some records of them ???
  > Help me
  > Alban
  >
  > -


  -


- ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01C1A8AC.7DDC10A0
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    charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

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<HTML><HEAD>
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<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3105.105" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>Two 1998 tapes of Radio shows exist, from Dutch Radio 4: two sets =
from one=20
show. I believe it was either in the Sju-huis Utrecht, or the Bimhuis,=20
Amsterdam. Zorn was there, but didn't play. I recall it was much more =
busy (more=20
people playing at once) than the first Bar Kokhba disc.</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Can't give you any details pon personnel though, it used people =
from the=20
recording, and other Tzadik related musicians. Try to get in touch with =
either=20
VPRO or NPS through their websites (those are the two radio stations =
most likely=20
to have broadcasted the shows originally).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Regards, Remco Takken</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE=20
style=3D"BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: =
0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; PADDING-RIGHT: 0px"><BR>Alban=20
  Jacques wrote:<BR><BR>> Hi,<BR>> I m just looking for some live =
session=20
  of bar kokhba... And i read on<BR>> the unofficial masada site that =
there=20
  were some west cost shows of<BR>> masada.... Where i can find some =
records=20
  of them ???<BR>> Help me<BR>> Alban<BR>><BR>>=20
- -<BR><BR><BR>-<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0058_01C1A8AC.7DDC10A0--


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #718
*******************************


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