home
***
CD-ROM
|
disk
|
FTP
|
other
***
search
/
ftp.xmission.com
/
2014.06.ftp.xmission.com.tar
/
ftp.xmission.com
/
pub
/
lists
/
zorn-list
/
archive
/
v03.n713
< prev
next >
Wrap
Internet Message Format
|
2002-01-27
|
21KB
From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #713
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Monday, January 28 2002 Volume 03 : Number 713
In this issue:
-
Re: Randy Weston
Re: performance art
Re: breaking the silence.
Fw: performance art
Re: Bye.
Re: The First Time
the gift --ACTUAL ZORN CONTENT
Re: The First Time
Re: didn't anyone notice... (and info on performance pieces for listservs)
Re: The First Time
Re: The First Time
Kristallnacht (was: The First Time)
Re: Kristallnacht (was: The First Time)
other improvised music of note
Re: Kristallnacht (was: The First Time)
Re : bye
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 00:17:03 -0800
From: drool puddle kittens <connah@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Randy Weston
skip said:
Jon's exit is a drag.
Steve -- yours is even worse.
>
> Losing two guys with this much positive community influence is bad for
> business.
I agree.
> NP: randy weston -- "cabana bamboo highlife" what the hell album is this
> from and is it in print?
Skip, the album is on the Colpix label, entitled "Music from the New African
Nations featuring the Highlife". I'm guessing the recording date is
mid-1960's, given the presence of Booker Ervin (his other dates with Weston
were from ca. 65/66--African Cookbook and that live one from Monterey).
In print? I doubt it but it is definitely one of his best.
- ---graham connah
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 19:07:58 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es>
Subject: Re: performance art
HI,
Since you weren't even elegant enough to answer off-list, I'll do the same.
My lack of eloquence should be forgivable, considering that I'm a Spanish
guy trying to express himself in a foreign language.
The part about "creepy, twerpy bona-fides" I don't understand. Sorry
Snobbery? Hypocrisy? It's not me who must answer to this, but if you check
the archives, you'll see that what I do most is just asking for
recommendations and when I don't know what I'm talking about, I usually keep
my mouth shut (unlike you).
I've never had an argument here, or at least not as unelegant as are the
ones you've provoked here. They were constructive, while you're looking for
easy, childish provocation. But which were your contributions? I don't
remember reading interesting posts coming from you, but I did read some
underrating some of the listers.
Even if you said something interesting every once in a while, you wouldn't
have the right to think you're the center of the world or a sort of
revolutionary- it's pathetic, believe me.
Neeless to say, I don't give a fuck whether someone like you respects me or
not. For me, you're just an asshole that's spoling things here. Everything
was very quiet until you joined.
Fortunately, the remaining 698 are worth the subscription.
EfrΘn del Valle
> If the Z-list archives become more easily searchable (I hope) you might
want
> to check it out and get a better idea of who's who. I think you'll
discover
> some of the people you're conversing with r creeps, perhaps me myself!
> Certainly Efren has established his creepy, twerpy bona-fides. His posts
are
> a boring marvel of empty snobbery, and casual hypocrisy oozes from him.
All
> I was sayin', EFREN, is that I agreed with your own assesment of your
> general lack of eloquence, and that others will probably argue your points
> better. With me everyone gets a set allotment of respect they can either
> shrink or grow, your allotment is largely gone...
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 20:27:56 +1100
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: Re: breaking the silence.
> alright, i vowed to 24 hours of silence but i can't resist.
why does this not surprise me?
> why have a small succession of posts involving me caused such outburst?
it
> as though i am the straw that broke the proverbial camel's back through
> something that was already taking place here on zorn-list. what's the
deal?
i think you have misread the situation - what was 'already taking place
here' was people discussing zorn and related topics (hence 'zorn-list'). the
reason you have rocked the boat is your complete disregard of even *trying*
to do this...
Julian.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 19:56:51 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es>
Subject: Fw: performance art
I think the message below didn't come through before.
HI,
Since you weren't even elegant enough to answer off-list, I'll do the same.
My lack of eloquence should be forgivable, considering that I'm a Spanish
guy trying to express himself in a foreign language.
The part about "creepy, twerpy bona-fides" I don't understand. Sorry
Snobbery? Hypocrisy? It's not me who must answer to this, but if you check
the archives, you'll see that what I do most is just asking for
recommendations and when I don't know what I'm talking about, I usually keep
my mouth shut (unlike you).
I've never had an argument here, or at least not as unelegant as are the
ones you've provoked here. They were constructive, while you're looking for
easy, childish provocation. But which were your contributions? I don't
remember reading interesting posts coming from you, but I did read some
underrating some of the listers.
Even if you said something interesting every once in a while, you wouldn't
have the right to think you're the center of the world or a sort of
revolutionary- it's pathetic, believe me.
Neeless to say, I don't give a fuck whether someone like you respects me or
not. For me, you're just an asshole that's spoling things here. Everything
was very quiet until you joined.
Fortunately, the remaining 698 are worth the subscription.
EfrΘn del Valle
> > If the Z-list archives become more easily searchable (I hope) you might
> want
> > to check it out and get a better idea of who's who. I think you'll
> discover
> > some of the people you're conversing with r creeps, perhaps me myself!
> > Certainly Efren has established his creepy, twerpy bona-fides. His posts
> are
> > a boring marvel of empty snobbery, and casual hypocrisy oozes from him.
> All
> > I was sayin', EFREN, is that I agreed with your own assesment of your
> > general lack of eloquence, and that others will probably argue your
points
> > better. With me everyone gets a set allotment of respect they can either
> > shrink or grow, your allotment is largely gone...
>
>
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:03:59 +0100
From: patRice <iqhouse@yahoo.de>
Subject: Re: Bye.
I am also very much surprised at how things have been going recently...
And I am also one of the list-members who just can't see the point in
k8's, IMHO, useless & boring "contributions". (About the age thing: of
course it age and experience does have an influence on people's
personality, but reactions would have been the same if k8 was 102 years
old.)
The list does have a set of rules - so anyone not following them should
be excluded; simple as that. (Call me fascist, if you like...)
If more & more people are starting to feel that this is the wrong place
to keep talking about the things we have in the past (and anything new,
of course!), I would suggest starting a new group, for authorized
subscribers only. That way we could get rid of people the majority
disapproves of very quickly. (If anyone is interested in this, get in
touch with me off-list.)
patRice
np: Blood & Fire - Select Cuts
nr: Florence Rome, The Tattooed Men
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:11:25 +0100
From: patRice <iqhouse@yahoo.de>
Subject: Re: The First Time
forsha41@earthlink.net wrote:
> I still feel like a total newbie when it comes to his
> music, but I've been eager to check out some of his more "composed"
> chamber-type stuff I've seen on Tzadik. Is there a good resource
> somewhere for reviews or descriptions for each of his CDs?
>
You'll probably find some reviews on Amazon; I think some of them might be
helpful.
Finding "the right place" to delve into Zorn's composed stuff is not an
easy task, I think.
One piece I absolutely love is "Redbird". It's dedicated to Agnes Martin,
and if you're familiar with her work, you will probably understand why
Zorn dedicated it to her.
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 02:14:38 -0800
From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: the gift --ACTUAL ZORN CONTENT
I finally had a chance to sit here and listen to THE GIFT end-to-end.
Previously, I had heard and enjoyed most of it as separate cuts.
Is it me, or does it sound to anyone else like JZ is seeing exotica as
ambient romantic music? The tunes seem set up more to enforce an enviroment
than to be checked out as appointment listenign in the way something like
SPILLANE is (which is ironic, considering how similar the influences are --
it's just how skilled he is at dealing with them in different ways). It's
almost like he's using exotica as a means to a kind of Satie phase. (Or
maybe Barry White, depending on how seriously you take the little spine
liners).
Once again, he's making me think about stuff I already processed. That
bastard.
skip h
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 02:19:34 -0800
From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: The First Time
>
> Finding "the right place" to delve into Zorn's composed stuff is not an
> easy task, I think.
> One piece I absolutely love is "Redbird". It's dedicated to Agnes Martin,
> and if you're familiar with her work, you will probably understand why
> Zorn dedicated it to her.
>
> patRice
>
REDBIRD is very, very nice. I was knocked out by KRISTALLNACHT. It has a
kind of Webern quality in spots, which I love, and the string-writing is
really skillfull, he gets a lot of effects. And the chords are often pure
menace. It really captures a lot, not all of it pleasant, and some of it
went a little long for me. But I really gotta send people looking to that
one. Shook me up, and not nearly enough does that.
skip h
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:26:04 +0100
From: patRice <iqhouse@yahoo.de>
Subject: Re: didn't anyone notice... (and info on performance pieces for listservs)
UFOrbK8@aol.com wrote:
> the idea of a performance piece for listservs i personally found amusing, and
> i have used as a way to break up silly arguments (i.e. ORNETTE COLEMAN), by
> quoting someone and responding with something silly,
<snip>
Did you ever read the following?
"ABOUT THE ZORN LIST
The Zorn list was created so that fans of John Zorn and his MANY projects could
come together and chat about the man and
his music...Naked City, Masada, Painkiller, etc.....
Also discussed on this list, are: Bill Laswell, Bill Frisell, Elliott Sharp,
Bobby Previte, Wayne Horvitz, Zeena Parkins,
Knitting Factory roster artists, Joey Baron, Last Exit posse, and any other
downtown NYC connected musicians.
GENERAL
Message Topics: Please keep the topics of your messages relevant to the subject
of the mailing list. Promotional
announcements and Press Releases are not welcome. "
Yes, it's from the browbeat.com Zornlist section, about the rules of this list.
I personally also can't see the relevance of your "performance" piece on this
list... It's just plain fucking boring, and wastes way too much bandwidth. And
whether you personally find it amusing or not, I seriously couldn't care less
about.
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:30:50 +0100
From: patRice <iqhouse@yahoo.de>
Subject: Re: The First Time
Skip Heller wrote:
> I was knocked out by KRISTALLNACHT. It has a
> kind of Webern quality in spots, which I love, and the string-writing is
> really skillfull, he gets a lot of effects. And the chords are often pure
> menace. It really captures a lot, not all of it pleasant, and some of it
> went a little long for me. But I really gotta send people looking to that
> one. Shook me up, and not nearly enough does that.
Agreed, I also find Kristallnacht to be very interesting; must admit though
that I haven't listened to it for ages...
Another one that just came to mind is JZ's "String Quartets" CD; also highly
recommended. When listening to "The Dead Man", I suggest to also read Georges
Bataille's story of the same name. The string version of "Kol Nidre" I love,
too.
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 02:31:14 -0800
From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: The First Time
> From: patRice <iqhouse@yahoo.de>
> Agreed, I also find Kristallnacht to be very interesting; must admit though
> that I haven't listened to it for ages...
I hasten to mention that it's not the kind of a record you put on often.
sh
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:38:38 +0100
From: patRice <iqhouse@yahoo.de>
Subject: Kristallnacht (was: The First Time)
Skip Heller wrote:
>
> I hasten to mention that it's not the kind of a record you put on often.
Especially the second track... I think I only ever listened to it once...
But the opening section (Track 1) I used to listen to an awful lot of times; it
is absolutely beautiful, and the German spoken stuff sends chills down my spine
(because of the meaning...).
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 02:41:17 -0800
From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Kristallnacht (was: The First Time)
> From: patRice <iqhouse@yahoo.de>
To: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
> Subject: Kristallnacht (was: The First Time)
>
>>
>> I hasten to mention that it's not the kind of a record you put on often.
>
> Especially the second track... I think I only ever listened to it once...
>
> But the opening section (Track 1) I used to listen to an awful lot of times;
> it
> is absolutely beautiful, and the German spoken stuff sends chills down my
> spine
> (because of the meaning...).
>
> patRice
I don't speak German, but it moved me big time. Just the pure sound of it.
sh
np: Andre Williams, "Goin' Down To Tijuana" --incredible
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 02:55:21 -0800
From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: other improvised music of note
Rounder announced the impending release of STEAM-POWERED AEREO TAKES, which
is a collection of alternate takes and unused material fr John Hartford's
AEREO PLANE album, which is a masterpiece of interplay (John's next group
was a trio with Norman Blake on guitar and mandolin and Dave Holland on
bass, if that tells you how much emphasis he put on interaction and what
quality of players he attracted).
I got an advance copy this week, and -- for those of you who know AP -- it's
one revelation after the next, espec with regards to David Bromberg's role
as producer (I never thought I could give HIM any more props). The
interplay is really close and tight throughout, and even the failed moments
have stunning things about them. For those of you who don't know the AP,
now's a good time to check it out, because suddenly there's more. To a
certain strain of improvisors, it's a landmark album. Those familiar with
JH via "Gentle On My Mind" or OH BROTHER, WHERE ART THOU are only getting
the smallest tip of a formidable iceberg. John Hartford was bluegrass
music's Sonny Rollins -- an insatiable intellect, fanatical practicer, an
inexhaustable improvisor, and a guy who had more chops than just about
anyone on either of his instruments but was loathe to grandstand.
I mention this because AEREO PLANE was the album that made me crave
improvising in any music, and I doubt I am alone in this company with
regards to my love for it. My high school music teacher said, "It's to
bluegrass music what BILL EVANS LIVE AT THE VILLAGE VANGUARD was to the jazz
piano trio."
skip h
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 22:03:54 +0100
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es>
Subject: Re: Kristallnacht (was: The First Time)
Hi,
For me "Kristallnacht" represents one of the most violent, shocking pieces
by Zorn, even more than "Torture Garden" or Painkiller, in which that
violence is much more obvious both in terms of musical references and
imagery. Of course, the issue that Kristallnacht deals with is much harsher
and probably closer to Zorn than S/M tendencies or "the smell of a critic's
burning flesh". I don't play it too often, either, and even less the second
track.
As someone else said, The String Quartets are amazing, especially "Kol
Nidre". With regards to "Cat O'Nine Tails" I prefer the Kronos Quartet
version by far, it's, IMHO, much more immediate. Zorn quotes Harrington from
the KQ referring to Zorn himself on the New Yorker magazine: "He has all the
tools to create something great. If only he would turn the TV off once in a
while, maybe he'd create something really transgressive..." "damn asshole
(laughs)!!" is Zorn's response. He did create a real classic, although the
author states in the same interview that the real potential of the piece
hasn't been demonstrated so far.
Two other basic compositions by Zorn are, for me, "Duras" and "Elegy", as
opposed to "Redbird", which I didn't enjoy so much. However, I admit that
the minimalistic vein of the piece fits really well with Martin's work.
Also, I'd understand that for others, "Duras" is repetitive and really,
really minimalistic (if we add a pejorative sense there) but the general
atmosphere, is IMHO, superb and perfectly captures the wonder and darkness
of Duras' writings.
You see, another empty, pretentious, snob post from me.
Best,
EfrΘn del Valle
n.p: Agustφ Fernßndez Trio (w/ Susie Ibarra & William Parker) "One Night at
the Joan Mir≤ Foundation"
>
>
> > From: patRice <iqhouse@yahoo.de>
> To: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
> > Subject: Kristallnacht (was: The First Time)
> >
> >>
> >> I hasten to mention that it's not the kind of a record you put on
often.
> >
> > Especially the second track... I think I only ever listened to it
once...
> >
> > But the opening section (Track 1) I used to listen to an awful lot of
times;
> > it
> > is absolutely beautiful, and the German spoken stuff sends chills down
my
> > spine
> > (because of the meaning...).
> >
> > patRice
>
> I don't speak German, but it moved me big time. Just the pure sound of
it.
>
> sh
> np: Andre Williams, "Goin' Down To Tijuana" --incredible
>
>
> -
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 07:53:07 EST
From: Stinkipipi@aol.com
Subject: Re : bye
- --part1_53.11ac618b.2986a3b3_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
>Steve -- yours is even worse.=A0 I looked to you as my
>parakeet --ie I bought a few things largely because you raved about them on
>the list.=A0 Also, you knew your stuff from all sides.
- --part1_53.11ac618b.2986a3b3_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML><FONT FACE=3Darial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=3D2>>Steve -- yours is eve=
n worse.=A0 I looked to you as my
<BR>>parakeet --ie I bought a few things largely because you raved about=20=
them on
<BR>>the list.=A0 Also, you knew your stuff from all sides.
<BR></FONT></HTML>
- --part1_53.11ac618b.2986a3b3_boundary--
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #713
*******************************
To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to
"majordomo@lists.xmission.com"
with
"unsubscribe zorn-list-digest"
in the body of the message.
For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send
"help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message.
A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest"
in the commands above with "zorn-list".
Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in
pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date.
Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com