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2002-01-27
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #714
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Monday, January 28 2002 Volume 03 : Number 714
In this issue:
-
re : bye
recent developments and bobby previte
Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #713
this all affair
Xenakis
Fwd: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #713
Re: Xenakis
Re: the gift --ACTUAL ZORN CONTENT
Fwd: Re: the gift --ACTUAL ZORN CONTENT
efren VS. whom?... , avant-elitism the return, and some xenakis content.
Trembling Before G-d on NPR NOW!
David Vorhaus/White Noise
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 07:53:35 EST
From: Stinkipipi@aol.com
Subject: re : bye
- --part1_17e.2bf6456.2986a3cf_boundary
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
sorry...should have added...AMEN!
- --part1_17e.2bf6456.2986a3cf_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<HTML><FONT FACE=arial,helvetica><FONT SIZE=2>sorry...should have added...AMEN!</FONT></HTML>
- --part1_17e.2bf6456.2986a3cf_boundary--
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:08:05 -0400
From: mwoodwor <mwoodwor@is2.dal.ca>
Subject: recent developments and bobby previte
Hi - just wanted to put my two cents worth in about recent developments
on the list -
I have been reading the list for the past 4 years or so, and very occasionally
contributing. I read the list primarily to
a) obtain information/reviews about recordings I have heard about, but am not
sure if I want to buy
b) be exposed to music that I had not heard of before
c) hear interesting bits of information/other opinions about artists that I
enjoy
d) find out information about upcoming concerts/events
e) actually observe people discussing music that 95.6% of my friends do not
really enjoy
For all these reasons I have really enjoyed the Zorn list FOR YEARS, it makes
me feel good just to know there actually is other people out there enjoying
releases on labels like Tzadik, Erstwhile, Aum Fidelity, FMP, Atavistic, and
Hatology etc. I have nothing against people like K8 and actually find some
of their posts somewhat amusing. But, overall, the majority of these
"performance" posts that I have bothered to read are boring/self-indulgent/and
just plain silly anyway you care to "analyze" it. However, I don't mean to
put them down, it's just it's really frustrating to see them driving away
individuals who have been on this list FOR YEARS. I don't think people like
Jon or Steve are over-reacting, I think they just grew tired of too many posts
not meeting any of the a) through e) criteria that I listed above...
BTW, someone else mentioned earlier that they had heard some people did not
like the Vandermark 5's- Simpatico album as much as earlier ones. I
personally think Simpatico is their strongest release to date. Also, is
Bobby Previte's
new one on Tzadik actually released, or has it been delayed once again??
Finally, BUY TIM BERNE'S - OPEN COMA!!!
Mike.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 09:10:20 -0500
From: "Jeton Ademaj" <jeton@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #713
To All
I'm sorry if my uncompromising reactions are taken as provocations, but it
happens that my REactions have always been symmetrical to what I perceived
as provocations (the homophobia spat, Jon's nastiness). I thought I've been
amenable to discussion and elaboration, and read the digests of this list
because it's typically informative and fun to contribute to, if overly
prolific. I don't randomly pick fights, despite the indulgent ANALysis of
some.
So
Steve, I'm surprised slightly by your reaction, because I thought we'd
largely settled (if not resolved) any differences between us. I guess not,
as your reaction was long enough to have easily included some slight
indication of even-handedness. It didn't. Did I have anything to say to
Efren or Handley before the latter frothed about me as a 'poison apple' and
the former casually chimed-in? Was my treatment of Efren any less brief and
casual until he chose to post an extended hostile response to me? The answer
is obvious, so ("of course!") I suspect your motives. Sorry if you took
offense to the term "searchable archives"... oh, and I'll enjoy all the
doobage there is, Steve, but I'm not laughing at you. I'm groaning in a
vague sadness...hope u reconsider, but w*h*a*t*e*v*e*r
Efren: drop any pretense of elegance as 'our' tiff was not started privately
by you but publicly. I dislike you and care not for your reactions so let's
both do the list a favor and not address each other any more. We all get
back what we put in, as it were.
and to Jon Abbey, wherever you are, an amendment: I very much liked when
you'd unload on someone else's nastiness (recall sweet deconstructions of
somebody's impregnable yet condescending ur-haiku last summer) but I felt
that you were indulging in minor but real cruelty with others you merely
disagreed with. It's nice that you're well missed, and I was mean at your
departure and already miss your reactions. But, at least one person here has
said that interpersonal manners are (or should be) irrelevant here, and we
should all see the fruit of that sentiment by now.
I'm not looking to pick fights per se, and I'm not leaving unless removed.
Those who pick fights should be prepared to lose them, everyone else just
agrees to disagree...
_________________________________________________________________
Join the worldÆs largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
http://www.hotmail.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 15:34:36 +0000 (WET)
From: Ricardo Reis <l43384@alfa.ist.utl.pt>
Subject: this all affair
Good manners is a sign of intelligence (knowing when to put it
aside is another but are rare those who are capable of such). why to
hostilize people from whom we can learn?
life is an improv. piece...
Ricardo Reis
"Non Serviam"
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 15:38:43 +0000 (WET)
From: Ricardo Reis <l43384@alfa.ist.utl.pt>
Subject: Xenakis
Hi!
I'm entering into Xenakis through Pleides that i've listened at
the local phonotec. could someone tell me (or point a direction) of the
differences of the several recordings on this piece (set of pieces?)?
greets,
Ricardo Reis
"Non Serviam"
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 16:38:53 +0100 (CET)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Zorn List Digest V3 #713
Hi,
Sorry to get down to this level of pathetism but I
can't help replying. I'll try to do so in subsequent
correspondences.
Did I have
> anything to say to
> Efren or Handley before the latter frothed about me
> as a 'poison apple' and
> the former casually chimed-in? Was my treatment of
> Efren any less brief and
> casual until he chose to post an extended hostile
> response to me? The answer
> is obvious, so ("of course!") I suspect your
> motives.
I donÆt usually do anything casually, and even less
going against someone publicly and, why not admit it,
unpolitely. I chimed in because I thought I should do
it and as IÆve seen, many others share my thoughts on
this kind of behaviour. You came here, turned
everything upside down, threw out -directly or
indirectly- two very valuable people and now youÆre
kind of apologizing. And you talked about hypocrisy.
I donÆt know which your suspicions are and IÆm certain
theyÆre wrong. It was just my reaction to the way you
treated some members of the list. You donÆt need to go
beyond whatÆs obvious because thereÆs nothing else.
Acting like the martyr doesnÆt seem too coherent at
this point.
> Efren: drop any pretense of elegance as 'our' tiff
> was not started privately
> by you but publicly. I dislike you and care not for
> your reactions so let's
> both do the list a favor and not address each other
> any more. We all get
> back what we put in, as it were.
IÆll obviously ignore your suggestion and will post
whatever I want whenever I feel like, no matter itÆs
against you, in your favor or has absolutely nothing
to do with you. The fact that you dislike me in such a
way only through a series of stupid e-mails says a
lot.
The worst of all is that youÆve realized that people
will be missing Steve and JonÆs participation, so you
had to hang on your head a little bit. My
contributions to the list are obvioulsy not as
valuable as theirs - and I really mean it-, and youÆre
seizing the opportunity to try to trample on me.
Deplorable.
As far as IÆm concerned, IÆm not throwing in the towel
and even less leaving the list for this little circus
youÆve organized. IÆve had much worse arguments in
other lists, but at least my oponents were respectable
and had an impressive background. And whatÆs more
important, they didnÆt categorize me for having
different opinions.
Best,
EfrΘn del Valle
_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 15:51:42 +0000 (WET)
From: Ricardo Reis <l43384@alfa.ist.utl.pt>
Subject: Re: Xenakis
after a small search in google i believe to have found a place
that answers my questions (http://www.iannis-xenakis.org). thanx for
caring anyway...
Ricardo Reis
"Non Serviam"
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 07:59:13 -0800
From: Tosh <tosh@loop.com>
Subject: Re: the gift --ACTUAL ZORN CONTENT
I don't have the package with the liner notes in front of me, but I
think Zorn sort of meant it to be a version of Martin Denny
recordings - so in a way it's supposed to take you on a romantic
cruise of some sort. I like this album.
And speaking of Martin Denny - anybody here here a fan of exotica? I
am sure it has been covered here on the list - but I have the habit
of leaving and coming back to the list.
- --
Tosh Berman
TamTam Books
http://www.tamtambooks.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:48:53 +0100 (CET)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Efr=E9n=20del=20Valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es>
Subject: Fwd: Re: the gift --ACTUAL ZORN CONTENT
Hi,
I've also been enjoying The Gift very much lately,
although I didn't like it at the beginning. I guess it
hooked me up at last.
We were discussing a bit on Exotica some days ago and
more specifically, over the Ultra-Lounge Series, which
could be a good starter. There are several thematic
volumes and some of them focus on the works of Martin
Denny and Les Baxter, among other names. These Cds are
mid-priced series (at least in Spain) and surprisingly
the contents really match the titles!: "Mondo
Exotica", "Bongo Fury", Tv-series tunes, spy-themes
compilations, and many more I don't recall.
They are really enjoyable, IMHO.
Best,
EfrΘn del Valle
>
> I don't have the package with the liner notes in
> front of me, but I
> think Zorn sort of meant it to be a version of
> Martin Denny
> recordings - so in a way it's supposed to take you
> on a romantic
> cruise of some sort. I like this album.
>
> And speaking of Martin Denny - anybody here here a
> fan of exotica? I
> am sure it has been covered here on the list - but I
> have the habit
> of leaving and coming back to the list.
>
> --
> Tosh Berman
> TamTam Books
> http://www.tamtambooks.com
>
> -
>
_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 12:01:37 EST
From: UFOrbK8@aol.com
Subject: efren VS. whom?... , avant-elitism the return, and some xenakis content.
In a message dated 01.28.02 10:39:37, efrendv@yahoo.es writes:
>Sorry to get down to this level of pathetism but I
>can't help replying. I'll try to do so in subsequent
>correspondences.
>
>Did I have
>> anything to say to=20
>> Efren or Handley before the latter frothed about me
>> as a 'poison apple' and=20
>> the former casually chimed-in? Was my treatment of
>> Efren any less brief and=20
>> casual until he chose to post an extended hostile
>> response to me? The answer=20
>> is obvious, so ("of course!") I suspect your
>> motives.=20
>I don=E2=80=99t usually do anything casually, and even less
>going against someone publicly and, why not admit it,
>unpolitely. I chimed in because I thought I should do
>it and as I=E2=80=99ve seen, many others share my thoughts on
>this kind of behaviour. You came here, turned
>everything upside down, threw out -directly or
>indirectly- two very valuable people and now you=E2=80=99re
>kind of apologizing. And you talked about hypocrisy.
>I don=E2=80=99t know which your suspicions are and I=E2=80=99m certain
>they=E2=80=99re wrong. It was just my reaction to the way you
>treated some members of the list. You don=E2=80=99t need to go
>beyond what=E2=80=99s obvious because there=E2=80=99s nothing else.
>Acting like the martyr doesn=E2=80=99t seem too coherent at
>
>this point.=20
>> Efren: drop any pretense of elegance as 'our' tiff
>> was not started privately=20
>> by you but publicly. I dislike you and care not for
>> your reactions so let's=20
>> both do the list a favor and not address each other
>> any more. We all get=20
>> back what we put in, as it were.
>I=E2=80=99ll obviously ignore your suggestion and will post
>whatever I want whenever I feel like, no matter it=E2=80=99s
>against you, in your favor or has absolutely nothing
>to do with you. The fact that you dislike me in such a
>way only through a series of stupid e-mails says a
>lot.=20
>The worst of all is that you=E2=80=99ve realized that people
>will be missing Steve and Jon=E2=80=99s participation, so you
>had to hang on your head a little bit. My
>contributions to the list are obvioulsy not as
>valuable as theirs - and I really mean it-, and you=E2=80=99re
>seizing the opportunity to try to trample on me.
>Deplorable.
okay - i'd like to point out, for the record, that this current little spat=20
has nothing to do with me. =20
people, no matter how much you want to believe it, my immature 23 year old=20
female trite self isn't responsible for two old-timers leaving the list. an=
y=20
mature human being would just delete off-topic posts and attribute it to,=20
well, whatever s/he wants to attribute it to, but not bother with this drive=
l.
secondly, this brings up an interesting point regarding avant-elitism, an=20
earlier thread in which i was personally involved. i think people are very=20
split as to whether or not they want to 'corrupt' the avant-garde arts or=20
avant-garde music or whatever by letting the general public get a hold of it=
=20
- - they covet, guard, protect it from anything which may 'ruin' it for the=20
'true believers' -- it sounds suspiciously like evangelical christianity whe=
n=20
you do that. it's like those stupid indie rock kids. hell, i used to be=20
one. you hold onto a band, a person, an icon, an artist, a writer, and=20
suddenly he/she/it is "popular" and someone is going to "ruin it for the res=
t=20
of everyone." what a dumb attitude to have! or better, what an elitist=20
attitude to have! music is for the masses, usually the people who don't mak=
e=20
music for the masses explicitly say so (babbitt, ferneyhough), and everythin=
g=20
else is fair game. so far as i'm concerned, it is out of line for everyone=20
to get all personal, including me. but at least i was just responding to=20
something! people are now just throwing out random affronts, public and=20
private, personal and professional ("let's hear your 'serious' music so we=20
can get a good larf out of it" is possibly my personal favourite from the=20
past 3 days - whomever said that, mad props on being randomly cruel).
starting a new list-serv and hand picking your members is possibly the most=20
annoyingly and cruelly elitist way to go about keeping your art "pure". if=20
my little immature subversiveness is that threatening to you, perhaps you=20
should reconsider your ostensibly liberal views on music and art and=20
whatever. don't you think? or at least just delete my posts and pretend=20
like i don't exist. i've very much been making the effort to put all of my=20
topics in the header so people can choose to read, not read, respond, or=20
delete at will. the fact that this is STILL carrying on days later (over=20
tangelos?), brings to my attention that it is not only my fault, but i am a=20
mere catalyst for the propulsion of a small group of persons becoming angry=20
when a fresh, immature college kid is asking questions and questioning the=20
way more established persons are handling themselves on the list.
to whomever posted the rules back up for us (me), thanks. but i'd like to=20
point out once again (how soon we forget!) that this whole mess between me=20
and Mister Erstwhile Records Himself (TM) was over kraftwerk, and then Neu!.=
=20
so i guess we were breaking the rules and should have automatically been=20
thrown off from there. seig heil, our supreme leaders!
achtung, kids, that's not the way new music works. there is always going to=
=20
be someone who is the rock in your shoe or the wedgie in your underwear that=
=20
you just can't pick because you're sitting at your desk at J. Random=20
Important Record Company / Publication / Meeting with Important People (TM),=
=20
and there you'll have it. you can't just stomp out like a child, or better=20
yet, like kathleen battle.
with regards to xenakis - i'm not familiar with that recording. [runs in=20
fear for not knowing something, admitting it publicly, and being off topic=20
all at once.] however, i would strongly reccomend the percussion pieces -=20
all of them - because they rock. xenakis' stochastic math principles are=20
rather skewed in the view of principia mathematica, and he's kind of a=20
math-joke in real-math circles (equally elitist and unwilling to be=20
corrupted, amusing, no? poor godel...), but to listen to them is truly an=20
experience. especially if you've got some hot studio monitors and you can=20
pump it up loud, loud, loud. and i don't even listen to loud music. really=
.
love,
k8.
n.p. - guys and dolls -- "shoot me, shoot me, put bullets through me, i love=
=20
you... go ahead hate me, hate me, go on and hate me; i love you!"
n.r. - course in general linguistics - ferdinand de saussure
- -----
[ .n o t h i n g i s w h a t i s s a i d. ]
.k a t e p e t e r s o n.
.c o m p o s e r / p e r f o r m e r.
<A HREF=3D"http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>
<A HREF=3D"http://www.icefoundation.org">http://www.icefoundation.org</A> =20
(roundtable)
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 12:05:22 EST
From: Samerivertwice@aol.com
Subject: Trembling Before G-d on NPR NOW!
All:
"Fresh Air" is at this moment airing a show on "Trembling Before G-d." Zorn
is not on the panel of speakers.
Tom
- -
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:31:34 +0000
From: "M. Pathos" <mpathos@hotmail.com>
Subject: David Vorhaus/White Noise
Hi,
Is anyone here familiar with the work of David Vorhaus, perhaps better known
as White Noise? I came across an article describing his techniques recently
and his work sounds interesting in theory. What does it sound like? Any
recommendations for an album to start with?
thanks, Mike
_________________________________________________________________
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #714
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