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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #648
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Wednesday, December 19 2001 Volume 03 : Number 648
In this issue:
-
Re: Sonny Sharrock/Last Exit
tony allen and strut (no direct zorn content)
Re: avant-elitism.
Brant/Varese/Villa-Lobos/Piazzolla
Love, Madness / Circle
Re: avant-elitism.
Re: avant-elitism.
Re: Brant/Varese/Villa-Lobos/Piazzolla
Re: Love, Madness / Circle
Re: Norman Westberg
Re: avant-elitism.
Re: avant-elitism.
Re: avant-elitism.
Fwd: Re: avant-elitism.
girls of zorn.
Those Top Lists
Re: Those Top Lists
Re: Circle
Gira, SWANS, Burning World
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2001 09:50:43 -0700
From: malczewski@earthlink.net (Frank Malczewski)
Subject: Re: Sonny Sharrock/Last Exit
Just to mention a few rarities (seems most of the rest of his recordings
have been mentioned), there's also Last Exit's 'Headfirst Into The
Flames', and his recordings for the Space Ghost Coast To Coast cartoon.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 19:21:35 -0500
From: "Matt S" <mbs808@hotmail.com>
Subject: tony allen and strut (no direct zorn content)
I remember reading about Tony Allen here a long time ago .. can anyone make
recommendations?
what about strut records afro releases in general? I recently read a rave
about their Nigeria 70 compilation.. comments, thoughts?
_________________________________________________________________
Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 16:46:51 -0800
From: "Rev. Floyd Errors" <keithmar@msn.com>
Subject: Re: avant-elitism.
And under what category do we find one who authors such a
'practical guide to terms?'
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 17:05:21 -0800
From: "serge dautricourt" <sergedautricourt@hotmail.com>
Subject: Brant/Varese/Villa-Lobos/Piazzolla
I went to see the san fransisco symphony play a concert of their
"pan-american mavericks" series. My first time seeing a live symphony
playing avant garde pieces, I was quite moved. The program was: henry
Brant "Ice Fields"; Varese "Deserts"; piazolla "Tangazo"; Villa Lobos
"Choros No. 10, rasgo o coracao"
I was blown away by "ice field", which used over 100 musicians. in this
'spatial' composition he placed about different ensembles in different spots
in Davies Hall, including the symphony with 2 pianos, 2 harps in front, a
sort of swing-band-on-acid in the balcony, wind ensemble, bass drums to the
side, etc, etc. Brant himself (88 yrs old! quite a character during a
preperformance talk) was improvising on the huge pipe organ, and MTT
conducting all of it (except the jazz band, which was on its own.) Its hard
to describe the music because it was always wildly unpredictable. It was
often beautiful, humorous, and profound at the same time! I enjoyed every
second of it.
It was a real treat to see "Deserts" live. . . truly a haunting masterpiece.
For those who don't already know, varese creates contrasting landscapes,
using a two track tape (manipulated factory noise, I think) and a 20 piece
ensemble. Check it out if you're into zorn's clasical compositions.
The Villa Lobos was pretty crazy, using maybe 100 singers singing in an
Indian dialect, and some coolpercussion. A majestic, yet anguished kind of
feel. Piazolla was ok, but it paled compared to the others. Did anybody
else go? ok, hope i didn't bore too many people.
Serge Dautricourt
_________________________________________________________________
Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 2001 17:27:32 -0800
From: "serge dautricourt" <sergedautricourt@hotmail.com>
Subject: Love, Madness / Circle
I just got "Love, Madness and Mysticism." I like it a lot. like a lot of
zorn, its so full of new ideas, its going to take me a while to aborbs them
all. The musicians are incredible. What do other zorn listers think of
this one?
Circle - as in the 60's quartet with braxton, corea. Is the EMC 'Paris
concerts' double cd worth the price tag?
serge
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:47:19 -0800
From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: avant-elitism.
> And under what category do we find one who authors such a
> 'practical guide to terms?'
>
>
> -
>
See "Comicbookman, only worse"
skip h
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 17:59:06 -0800
From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: avant-elitism.
> This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand
this format, some or all of this message may not be legible.
- --MS_Mac_OE_3091629548_3114962_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit
In a message dated 12/18/01 4:11:55 PM Central Standard Time,
velaires@earthlink.net writes:
practical guide to terms:
Postmodern = wears record collection & too much TV watching on sleeve
elite= guys who play music hardly anyone wants to hear for a lot of guys who
can't get dates. The Simpson's Comicbookstoreman is the poster child for
this sort of thing.
intellectualism= trotting out a bunch of stuff fr books and lectures to
justify the above-defined behavior.
heh... after 5 years in music conservatory as a composition and music
technology major, it seems a little superfluous to give me a terms list, but
thanks for the thought. :)
as for being proud to call myself "one of them" - it was in reference to
elitism. and it was a snide, self-affacing joke.
kate peterson.
That little glossary of terms had more to do with the paragraph to which you
were responding, but thank you for letting me know your credentials and that
I am not to make any snide little jokes of my own the e-presence of someone
with conservatory training in composition.
Personally, I make a living (mostly) as a composer/arranger but my training
(such as it was) mainly happened on the bandstand and in bars. I have less
of a handle of music technology, unless you mean cats like Shocklee or Dr
Dre. I would never call myself an intellectual, but my grammar is passable.
I know -- to conservatory types -- I am probably the worst kind of trash
(except that my sessions generally pay well and the checks never bounce).
But I would never hurt anyone. Certainly I would never do something as
horrible as to subject an audience to a six hour "phase composition". From
your "heh" I can tell that you know more about music and audiences than I
ever will. I -- in all my superfluousness -- bow to your greater wisdom.
thank you --
skip heller
- --MS_Mac_OE_3091629548_3114962_MIME_Part
Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
<HTML>
<HEAD>
<TITLE>Re: avant-elitism.</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>
<BR>
<BR>
<BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2">In a message dated 12/18/01 4:11:55 PM Central S=
tandard Time, velaires@earthlink.net writes:<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT><BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2">practical guide to terms:<BR>
Postmodern =3D wears record collection & too much TV watching on sleeve<B=
R>
elite=3D guys who play music hardly anyone wants to hear for a lot of guys wh=
o can't get dates. The Simpson's Comicbookstoreman is the poster child=
for this sort of thing.<BR>
</FONT></BLOCKQUOTE><FONT SIZE=3D"2">intellectualism=3D trotting out a bunch of=
stuff fr books and lectures to justify the above-defined behavior.<BR>
</FONT><BR>
<BR>
<FONT SIZE=3D"2"><FONT FACE=3D"Arial"><BR>
heh... after 5 years in music conservatory as a composition and music=
technology major, it seems a little superfluous to give me a terms list, bu=
t thanks for the thought. :)<BR>
<BR>
as for being proud to call myself "one of them" - it was in refer=
ence to elitism. and it was a snide, self-affacing joke. <BR>
<BR>
kate peterson.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
</FONT></FONT><BR>
</BLOCKQUOTE><BR>
That little glossary of terms had more to do with the paragraph to which yo=
u were responding, but thank you for letting me know your credentials and th=
at I am not to make any snide little jokes of my own the e-presence of someo=
ne with conservatory training in composition.<BR>
<BR>
Personally, I make a living (mostly) as a composer/arranger but my training=
(such as it was) mainly happened on the bandstand and in bars. I have=
less of a handle of music technology, unless you mean cats like Shocklee or=
Dr Dre. I would never call myself an intellectual, but my grammar is =
passable. I know -- to conservatory types -- I am probably the worst k=
ind of trash (except that my sessions generally pay well and the checks neve=
r bounce). But I would never hurt anyone. Certainly I would neve=
r do something as horrible as to subject an audience to a six hour "pha=
se composition". From your "heh" I can tell that you kn=
ow more about music and audiences than I ever will. I -- in all my sup=
erfluousness -- bow to your greater wisdom.<BR>
<BR>
thank you --<BR>
skip heller
</BODY>
</HTML>
- --MS_Mac_OE_3091629548_3114962_MIME_Part--
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:04:46 -0800
From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Brant/Varese/Villa-Lobos/Piazzolla
> I went to see the san fransisco symphony play a concert of their
> "pan-american mavericks" series.
What if any Ives is in the upcoming program? I've been contemplating a run
up to SF. I've gone insane distances to catch an Ives performance (whether
or not it promised to be any good).
You should've seen the night about two yrs back during the Stravinsky fest
where they did HISTOIRE DU SOLDAT. MTT was really amazing, almost punk rock
intensity. I felt like I was seeing the Replacments or X. It was that
sweaty a performance.
skip h
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 18:07:35 -0800
From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Love, Madness / Circle
> I just got "Love, Madness and Mysticism." I like it a lot. like a lot of
> zorn, its so full of new ideas, its going to take me a while to aborbs them
> all. The musicians are incredible. What do other zorn listers think of
> this one?
>
> Circle - as in the 60's quartet with braxton, corea. Is the EMC 'Paris
> concerts' double cd worth the price tag?
>
> serge
>
Depends who you ask. I think it's some of Braxton's most successful work,
but I like records where Chick is playing accoustic piano with a great
rhythm section. I know some Braxton fans who think it's too straight. I
don't agree, but I guess that's what makes it interesting when you have two
musicians with largely different audiences in the same group.
skip h
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 06:27:12 +0000 (GMT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Michael=20Gillham?= <blackoperations13@yahoo.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Norman Westberg
Chris Selvig <mmlselvig@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Mr. Westberg is playing guitar in the Heroine Sheiks
>these days,
Never heard of.
>and looking rather grumpy while he does it.
Oh, well THAT'S a surpise! Ha. Cheer up Norm! It's not
the end of the world*, mate!
*
Although the way some SWANS hits you, you'd think it was...
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Everything you'll ever need on one web page
from News and Sport to Email and Music Charts
http://uk.my.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 02:21:15 EST
From: UFOrbK8@aol.com
Subject: Re: avant-elitism.
In a message dated 12.18.01 20:57:00, velaires@earthlink.net writes:
>That little glossary of terms had more to do with the paragraph to which
>you
>were responding, but thank you for letting me know your credentials and
>that
>I am not to make any snide little jokes of my own the e-presence of someone
>with conservatory training in composition.
um, ouch. it was a joke, actually. i was defacing my "conservatory
training" as well, by noting its over pretentia. let's just lay it out flat;
unless i'm directly talking about a piece, everything that comes out of my
mouth is total bullshit...
<bows in deference to your superior listserv capabilities>
<realises that i am the only girl on the list, probably, and sometimes boys
just don't Get It :)>
xxoo
kate peterson.
- -----
nothing in moderation.
(ernie kovacs)
i love you, you pay my rent.
(pet shop boys)
k a t e p e t e r s o n
composer / performer
UFOrbK8@aol.com
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 23:51:58 -0800
From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: avant-elitism.
>
> In a message dated 12.18.01 20:57:00, velaires@earthlink.net writes:
>
>> That little glossary of terms had more to do with the paragraph to which
>> you
>> were responding, but thank you for letting me know your credentials and
>> that
>> I am not to make any snide little jokes of my own the e-presence of someone
>> with conservatory training in composition.
>
> um, ouch. it was a joke, actually. i was defacing my "conservatory
> training" as well, by noting its over pretentia. let's just lay it out flat;
> unless i'm directly talking about a piece, everything that comes out of my
> mouth is total bullshit...
Cool. I've had too many people with credentials tell me how much smarter
they were than I am. Few of them actually make a living as composer, BTW.
>
> <bows in deference to your superior listserv capabilities>
> <realises that i am the only girl on the list, probably, and sometimes boys
> just don't Get It :)>
>
> xxoo
I thought there was another girl on the list.
> nothing in moderation.
> (ernie kovacs)
I worked for a time as a Kovacs archivist. You might be best not quoting the
author of a book like ZOOMAR.
skip heller
http://www.skipheller.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 02:51:52 EST
From: UFOrbK8@aol.com
Subject: Re: avant-elitism.
In a message dated 12.19.01 02:49:34, velaires@earthlink.net writes:
>Cool. I've had too many people with credentials tell me how much smarter
>they were than I am. Few of them actually make a living as composer, BTW.
now, now. those are the people i was MOCKING.
>>
>> <bows in deference to your superior listserv capabilities>
>> <realises that i am the only girl on the list, probably, and sometimes
>boys
>> just don't Get It :)>
>>
>> xxoo
>I thought there was another girl on the list.
i have no idea if there are other girls on the list. which brings me to my
introductory statement...
i study with john zorn's first studio teacher. whee!! which makes me the
hippest girl in the world <does dance of hipness>... i didn't even know it
until my first lesson but the irony was impossible since the debut mr. bungle
album and the zorn piece spillane pretty much defined my allegiance to crazy
music.
kate peterson.
>
- -----
nothing in moderation.
(ernie kovacs)
where there's a mission, there's a missionary.
(jim altieri)
k a t e p e t e r s o n
composer / performer
<A HREF="mailto:UFOrbK8@aol.com">UFOrbK8@aol.com</A>
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:50:51 +0100 (CET)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es>
Subject: Fwd: Re: avant-elitism.
HI,
the irony was impossible
> since the debut mr. bungle
> album and the zorn piece spillane pretty much
> defined my allegiance to crazy
> music.
>
> kate peterson.
It seems that we used the same door into this music.
I think there are more girls on the list (fortunately
:)).
In any case, welcome.
Best,
EfrΘn del Valle
_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 03:53:55 EST
From: UFOrbK8@aol.com
Subject: girls of zorn.
yes, but how many girls on this listserv know all the words to "girls of
porn" by memory? hehehehehEHHEHeHehheheEHHEH!!
thanks for the welcome. i feel assimilated now.
kp
- -----
nothing in moderation.
(ernie kovacs)
where there's a mission, there's a missionary.
(jim altieri)
k a t e p e t e r s o n
composer / performer
<A HREF="mailto:UFOrbK8@aol.com">UFOrbK8@aol.com</A>
<A HREF="http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html">
http://www.geocities.com/uforbk8/kate.html</A>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 10:33:14 +0100 (CET)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es>
Subject: Those Top Lists
Hi,
Christmas/Hannukah/whatever is approaching and I
haven't seen any 2001 Top Lists yet. So, sit down
and do your homework!:) I will.
Books and films are also welcome, as far as I'm
concerned (if it doesn't cause distress to anyone).
All the best,
EfrΘn del Valle
_______________________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Messenger
> Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
> http://messenger.yahoo.es
>
_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger
Comunicaci≤n instantßnea gratis con tu gente.
http://messenger.yahoo.es
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 09:49:05 +0000
From: "Ricardo Jorge" <ricardoviseu@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Those Top Lists
Gore Slut - "girls + turtles"
Otomo new jazz quintet - "Flutter"
Arto Lindsay- "ecomixes"
...
_________________________________________________________________
Converse com amigos on-line, experimente o MSN Messenger:
http://messenger.msn.com.br
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 11:46:53 +0100
From: "Remco Takken" <r.takken@planet.nl>
Subject: Re: Circle
Circle - as in the 60's quartet with braxton, corea. Is the EMC 'Paris
concerts' double cd worth the price tag?
In Germany, this one is mid-priced (40 marks), that's why I tried it in the
first place. It really is worth it, if you find it for a regular double-cd
price as an import. After that first Circle album, I went out to spend big
bucks (well, guilders actually) on a Double LP on Blue Note, with assorted
sessions, called 'Chick Corea Circles In'.
It is great, great music.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Dec 2001 06:07:36 -0500
From: David Keffer <keffer@planetc.com>
Subject: Gira, SWANS, Burning World
>From: "Mads Ruby" <ruby@andelsgaden.dk>
>Actually The Burning World is a great album, if you=B4re able to ignore =
>the tame sound. The songs were great, but sounded much better on the =
>"Anonymous Bodies In An Empty Room" live album
A second opinion:
"Anonymous Bodies In An Empty Room" is really a very poor substitute for
"The Burning World". "Anonymous Bodies In An Empty Room" is one of
several live SWANS albums of dubious quality, some of them recorded on
Walkmans
by audience members. Moreover, only 3 of the 8 songs on "Anonymous Bodies
In An Empty Room" are from "The Burning World". The others are from
(what was at the time forthcoming) "White Light From the Mouth of Infinity"
and "Blood Women Roses". Those 3 songs do not represent the best material
on "The Burning World". My opinion is that "The Burning World" is a strong
album with excellent music and lyrics, with a well-defined sound,
(tame only by comparison to previous SWANS efforts). While some of the songs
do become more bombastic (i.e. Let it Come Down) when rendered live, a
much better source for hearing these songs live rather than (the long oop)
"Anonymous Bodies In An Empty Room" are the live tapes sold for $10
at www.swans.pair.com. I have heard the 1989 shows in Tokyo and Lawrence, KS
and can vouch that they contain 9 of the 10 songs on "The Burning World"
There is no version of "Saved", I don't think they ever played "Saved" live.
At least I have never found a live tape with it, nor did they play it on
the couple of shows I saw during the '89 tour. Personally, I think they
were too embarrassed by their first (and only?) MTV video of "Saved".
As puzzling as it may be, these live tapes do have far superior sound
to the "officially released bootleg" called "Anonymous Bodies In An Empty
Room".
David K.
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #648
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