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Zorn List Digest       Sunday, October 14 2001       Volume 03 : Number 593



In this issue:
-
       Re: New Wave
       Re: Mail Order (no Zcon)
       Re: New Wave (naming confusion)
       scenes.montreal.music
       Re: Mail Order (no Zcon)
       Re: New Wave
       re: New Wave + street sax player
       Re: New Wave
       Re: Massacre Live?
       Tzadik Cds
       A. Leroy
       Um - Stray Dogs [new record from ropeadope]

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 15:29:39 +0100
From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: New Wave

I beg to differ about New Wave being a corporation invention in reaction to
Punk=2E (Was'nt it Punk in fact which was fabricated by this English publici=
ty
guy whose name escapes me?)

The source of what became known as New Wave can be traced to Warhol's
Factory and the Velvet Underground in the mid-60's and then David Bowie and
Glam Rock (T-Rex, NY Dolls, Roxy Music, etc=2E) in the early-mid 70's=2E

New Wave had a dead-pan ironic, intentionally caricatural twist on
issues of
sex, gender, identity, culture, violence and earlier musical and visual
clich=E9s of 50's and early-mid 60's Rock=2E

New Wave groups were a reaction to what by 1975 had become as institutional
as McDonald's cheeseburgers, the long-haired, lead guitar-driven macho band
(Led Zeppelin, Allman Brothers, etc=2E)=2E I remember well how refreshing an=
d
subversive the short hair, suits and synth-oriented musical approach was=2E

Aside from obvious bands like the B-52's, the Cars, Talking Heads, Soft
Cell, the Stranglers or Elvis Costello, bands as varied as Kraftwerk,
Police, or the Stray Cats could be considered New Wave=2E

I remember hearing really creative bands in clubs which never recorded or
hit the big time but deserved to, such as the Maps (anyone remember them?),
a kind of autistic Jefferson Airplane, or Human Sexual Response, who had a
local hit "I wanna be Jackie Onassis", both from Boston=2E

It was a very exciting period of self-rediscovery for Rock music which
lasted from about 1976 to 1981=2E

DY




"&c=2E" a =E9crit :

> I hear the term New Wave a lot and have a loose idea as to what it means,
> but what exactly classifies New Wave and distinguishes it from other pop
> music from the 80s?
>
> Thanks
> Zach
>
> -

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 13:44:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mail Order (no Zcon)

Thomas:

Verge
www.vergemusic.com
[e-mail]

prices are in canadian dollars so may or may not be a
good deal for you.

(no affiliation etc.)

Ken Waxman



- --- thomas chatterton <[e-mail]>
wrote:
> I know this question has gone round the list before,
> but I've been growing
> frustrated with some of the usual sources for mail
> order CDs (especially
> Bent Crayon!), and was wondering if anyone had any
> suggestions for some
> other good online retailers along the lines of
> Forced Exposure. Especially
> if there is any  place  that deals specifically in
> the music that gets
> discussed here...
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
> -
>


_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 10:54:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ronald Hiznay <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: New Wave (naming confusion)

No, no, no, no, no.....

the term "New Wave" was originally coined to describe
the large number of new Brittish groups which were
climbing up the American pop charts in the early 80's
as opposed to the Old Wave (Mod)explosion of the 60's
(Beatles, Who, Rolling Stones, Kinks, etc.)
that's why Elvis Costello gets bunched up with the
synth pop bands, he happened to be English, new to
American audiences and popular. By the time Devo got
popular enough (and bland enough) to appear on the pop
charts the term had metamorphosized to mean Synth-Pop
and so a lot of American bands were lumped into the
New Wave category, that's why it's so hard to explain,
it was originally meant to mean one thing and wound up
meaning another...kinda like the words "Industrial"
and "Noise" and "Garage". "Industrial" once being the
predecessors to the "Industrial" Pop music, such as
Scraping Foetus from the Wheel, and Einstuze
Neubauten, along with numerous fantastically inovative
idiots with tablesaws and re-wired amplified radios.
Crossovers (such as Foetus, Sheep on Drugs, etc.)paved
the way for people to use the term as "Industrial"
pop...Nine Inch Nails, Ministry, Marylin Manson, etc.

The bands who were doin' the table saw/rewired radio
stuff nearly went insane at thier own insanity being
intruded upon and started calling themselves "Noise"
bands, however, some of these people happened to be
people like crossovers like "Foetus" so sometimes now
you can even see "Industrial" Pop bands calling
themselves "Noise" bands.
On the other hand, in a totally different phenomena,
"Garage", meaning homeschool very straight (mod)
punkrock has since been adopted by a sector of the
Techno crowd, I still don't understand what
differentiates "Garage" from other forms of techno, I
can understand "Drum and Bass" "Drill and Bass"
"Gabba" "BPM" "Techno" "Breakbeat" "Acid House" "Trip
Hop", but the stereotypes of this form of electronica
still escape me, I digress, I have no Idea what the
connection is here, someone please tell me? perhaps
kids in thier garages these days try to make techno
music?



mushmush

__________________________________________________
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Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 12:34:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: jason tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: scenes.montreal.music

I am interested in exploring the Montreal creative music scene. Looking
to the collective knowledge of the zlist for help with some musicians
to check out, some locations that harbor creative music scenes and just
a general feel for what is happening [if possible] in the montreal
area.

Please respond privately.

I just moved up to northern NH, still jittery about not being able to
go to tonic when ever anything looks interesting. I guess I am looking
for the tonic equivalent in montreal [or burlington but I dont think
that is going to happen]

thanks!
J



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 13:44:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Mail Order (no Zcon)

Thomas:

Verge
www.vergemusic.com
[e-mail]

prices are in canadian dollars so may or may not be a
good deal for you.

(no affiliation etc.)

Ken Waxman



- --- thomas chatterton <[e-mail]>
wrote:
> I know this question has gone round the list before,
> but I've been growing
> frustrated with some of the usual sources for mail
> order CDs (especially
> Bent Crayon!), and was wondering if anyone had any
> suggestions for some
> other good online retailers along the lines of
> Forced Exposure. Especially
> if there is any  place  that deals specifically in
> the music that gets
> discussed here...
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at
> http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
> -
>


_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 17:28:44 -0400
From: Rich Williams <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: New Wave

>I beg to differ about New Wave being a corporation invention in reaction to
>Punk. (Was'nt it Punk in fact which was fabricated by this English publicit=
y
>guy whose name escapes me?)

Malcom Mclaren wasn';t it?. He had a boutique that sold  the punkers
their torn clothes and safety pins, and put together the sex pistols
sorta the way Don Kirchner put together The Monkees
>
>The source of what became known as New Wave can be traced to Warhol's
>Factory and the Velvet Underground in the mid-60's and then David Bowie and
>Glam Rock (T-Rex, NY Dolls, Roxy Music, etc.) in the early-mid 70's.
>
>New Wave had a dead-pan ironic, intentionally caricatural twist on
>issues of
>sex, gender, identity, culture, violence and earlier musical and visual
>clich=E9s of 50's and early-mid 60's Rock.
>
>New Wave groups were a reaction to what by 1975 had become as institutional
>as McDonald's cheeseburgers, the long-haired, lead guitar-driven macho band
>(Led Zeppelin, Allman Brothers, etc.). I remember well how refreshing and
>subversive the short hair, suits and synth-oriented musical approach was.

    The hair was especially important. ;-)  There was a
stylist....Mary Lou Green? in NYC.
The first thing an A & R guy  or promoter would do with a new band
was to get them all haircuts by Mary Lou.
It was like an entrance fee to being New Wave.

>
>I remember hearing really creative bands in clubs which never recorded or
>hit the big time but deserved to, such as the Maps (anyone remember them?),
>a kind of autistic Jefferson Airplane, or Human Sexual Response, who had a
>local hit "I wanna be Jackie Onassis", both from Boston.

    The Humans!!......A great, great band, They DID record an
album, not sure if it ever made it to CD?
  Some other good "New Wave" bands from boston around that period
were, The Young Snakes (Which later spawned Til Tuesday);  Red (Sort
of a punked out version of King Crimson, whose guitarist, known then
only as "O",  is now Flamenco Guitarist Ottmar Liebfert.), but my
favorites were The Dark. They would rent a flatbed truck and drive
around the Boston area giving dozens of impromptu concerts in a
single day. Bowie Guitarist Reeves Gabrels started out with them.
>
>It was a very exciting period of self-rediscovery for Rock music which
>lasted from about 1976 to 1981.

    The same period that I first remember hearing about this
weird kinda mad-professor guy who would blow a Clarinet into a bowl
of water.....whats his name again?  ;-)

RW

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 23:22:53 +0100
From: duncan youngerman <[e-mail]>
Subject: re: New Wave + street sax player

Another thought about New Wave : it was the Jimmy Carter term, just as
the previous great rock wave had been the Lyndon Johnson term. Single
term Democrats are great for rock. Republicans (single or double term)
suck. The next interesting wave was Clinton/Grundge, markedly less
original or interesting however than the Carter or of course the Johnson
wave.

More seriously, I have a question for any Bostoner in the late 1970's:
Does anyone remember a street saxophone player around Boston or
Cambridge, a white guy, around 40 then, who played this astounding
uninterrupted flow of notes from Heaven (or was it Hell)? It must have
been circular breathing, and it sounded like some sorts of arpeggios,
and he had a very metallic sound, almost sounded like electric cello
harmonics or feedback. I've never before or since heard anything that
remotely compares to his improvisations. He seemed possessed. I'd always
tell myself I'd come back and record him, and never did. Now I live to
regret it. Does anyone know who I'm talking about? Thank you!
DY


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 00:58:05 -0400
From: "josephneff" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: New Wave

Hello,
         ....my take on the whole thing is that the father away we get from
the mid-70's, the less accurate so many descriptions of punk/new
wave/u-ground rock of that era become. A lot of the histories/profiles that
I've read overlook the stylistic diversity of the early punk scene by
lumping anything that doesn't possess a trad punk sound as "new wave" or
"post-punk". I prefer the more inclusionist idea that the early punk scene
included a slew of diverse groups and artists that generally enjoyed the
wide open nature of the music. Groups like Suicide, Pere Ubu, 1/2 Japanese,
Raincoats, Throbbing Gristle and Joy Division all presented iconoclastic
sounds that integrated quite nicely w/ the more trad bands like Ramones,
Voidoids, Pistols, and early Damned.
        ....it's always been my understanding that "new wave" was a term
used (in the US anyway) by the major record companies to redefine punk after
the vast majority of the label's signees took a mersh nosedive. And so many
bands saddled with the new wave moniker were more than willing to soften
their sound/tool-up their image in hopes of selling more records. Isn't this
part of the story behind the uncompromising (and to me very punk) music of
the no wave scene? Of course, not all new wave was bad: I have a particular
fondness for early Devo and B-52's (the first one's a stone party classic,
up there w/ James Brown's "20 Greatest Hits" and Coltrane's "Blue Train")
      ....plus, so many early punk groups were just as, uh, phony. I've
often heard that the Stranglers were a pub band dolled up in punk
clothing/attitude, and that Gen X were just posers. And I cringe every time
I look at the cover of the Tuff Darts record (never been able to listen to
it all the way through, BTW).
       ....and I always had the impression that the politicization of US
punk largely came after Americans (mostly teens) had digested the socially
aware nihilism of the Pistols and the lefty-friendly Clash. This embrace of
politics by US bands seemed to coincide w/ a shift toward a more generic
sound that left the more unique, sometimes radical sounding groups way out
on the margins.
        (the above is by no means a dismissal of political music. Some of my
favorite music...Phil Ochs, Archie Shepp, Eugene Chadbourne, Minutemen,
Fugazi...is political on some level)
         .....the reason I bring up this generic shift is to opine that the
"80's "indie-rock" scene, to me, is an extension of the original stylistic
diversity of punk. My exposure to indie rock was where I learned about John
Zorn, free jazz, avant-garde classical, Phil Ochs, the Shaggs, Dada, John
Fahey, and Duke Ellington. And the major labels had their marketing term for
it as well..."college rock".
      ...discuss?

I remain....

Joseph

NP:"Caribbean Voyage: Martinique" The Alan Lomax         Collection CD
(Rounder)
NR: Herman Melville "Pierre, or the Ambiguities"
        John Barth "The Friday Book"
        Mike Azerrad "Our Band Could Be Your Life"


- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 10:47:10 +0200
From: Pascal Cortes <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Massacre Live?

Hello.
The jazzmatazz website ( http://home.att.net/~lankina/jazz/matazz.html
in their "upcoming jazz CDs" section) announces the following for Nov. 20:
Massacre "Live at the Meltdown Festival in London/June 2001" with Fred
Frith, Bill Laswell and Charles Hayward on Tzadik..... along with 6 other
Tzadik releases on Nov. 20, including Otomo Yoshihide's "Anode" (a Cathode
follow up ?).

Pascal.

At 21:09 12/10/01 +0000, you wrote:
>Hello.
>
>>Someone posted something about a new Tzadik release of Massacre "Live."
>>
>>a) when?
>
>I think it's about one month time from now...
>
>>b) is there an internet article you can e-mail me?
>
>No, but you might want to check the Downtown Music Gallery homepage. They
>mentioned something about it in their update.
>
>>c) is the line up the same as the '98 release?
>
>Yes.
>
>I'm wondering, did anybody here go to that Massacre concert in London? Was
>it good, and should I look forward to this cd?
>
>Thanks.
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp
>
>
>-
>
>
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 07:10:31 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Gatzen <[e-mail]>
Subject: Tzadik Cds

I was just curious, where does everyone purchase their
Tzadik CD's?

Me...I work in a record store so I just order them
when they come out, I have every release out so far. I
made a vow back in '95 to own every release on Tzadik.
Unfortunately I can't do that with Avant due to the
Cd's being more expensive and not as easy to find.


Tom

__________________________________________________
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Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 10:12:22 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: A. Leroy

Does anyone have info about this composer? I've heard his work performed
by Guy Klucevsek (the lovely 'Wild Goose' on '?Who Stole the Polka?',
among others) and I have a vague memory of a concert that included some
of his pieces performed by Anthony Davis, but a web search turns up
virtually nothing. I'm not even positive that it's his real name as
"Arthur Leroy" was a pseudonym used by various writers in the past. Or
if it is, what the "A" stands for.

Thanks.

Brian Olewnick

NP--Roden/Thaemlitz/LaBelle/Hegenbart/Charles - Sampling Rage (x-tract)

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 07:46:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: jason tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: Um - Stray Dogs [new record from ropeadope]

from
http://www.ropeadope.com

Wondering if any zlisters have checked this out and could write a brief
summary. When something is advertised as freaky downtown music it
automatically makes me nervous. Tho the combination of gullotti and
medeski does sound interesting.

UM - "STRAY DOG"
(with HAL CROOK, JOHN MEDESKI, RICK PECKHAM, DAVE ZINNO, and BOB
GULLOTTI)
(out now!)

The debut album on Outrageous Records, Um's Stray Dog is
uncompromising, aggressive jazz that accepts no limits and takes no
prisoners. This album is must for jazzheads tired of the same old
thing, MMW fans who love it when Medeski gets freaky, and downtowners
who like their weirdness fortified by serious jazz credentials.

Recorded live over two wild evenings in Providence, Rhode Island, UM is
a super group of accomplished masters, featuring Hal Crook (trombone),
John Medeski (organ), Rick Peckham (guitar), Dave Zinno (bass), and Bob
Gullotti (drums). Having performed collectively with Phil Woods, Paul
Motion, Trey AnastasioÆs Surrender to the Air, The Fringe, Medeski,
Martin and Wood, and John Zorn, these players are as wide-ranging in
their experience as they are adventurous.

Thanks to CrookÆs harmonized trombone, MedeskiÆs searing organ, and
PeckhamÆs postmodern guitar melodicism, this album is a cauldron of
burning sounds. Zinno and Gullotti provide driving accompaniment and a
lot more. DonÆt expect to hear medium swing and balladsùon UM youÆre
taken on a tour of chill rasta grooves, avant-funk epics, cataclysmic
shuffles, and burning jazz blues, all filled with raw live energy from
musicians who are not content being anything but outrageous.



__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals.
http://personals.yahoo.com

- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #593
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