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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #580
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Tuesday, October 2 2001 Volume 03 : Number 580
In this issue:
-
Odp: new Zorn fan, and intro;
Odp: Dave Douglas Witness - sextet version
zorn's jewish identity
Dave Douglas' "Witness"
Zorn/Fantomas/Bungle (too long)
Re: zorn's jewish identity
Re: Zorn/Fantomas/Bungle (too long)
RE: What Influenced "The Gift"?
INCUS CDRs
Re: INCUS CDRs
RE: INCUS CDRs
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 12:09:49 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl>
Subject: Odp: new Zorn fan, and intro;
Check out his filmworks series - lot of fun for a Ribot fun, as he
plays on most of the titles. I'd recommend I, II, III, and VII, but
the other ones are also very good
Marcin Gokieli
>So....where do I go next, with Zorn?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 12:17:17 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl>
Subject: Odp: Dave Douglas Witness - sextet version
Anyone (Steve?) knows whether Dave wants to release a live disc with
that lineup?
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 10:35:52
From: "annemarie jansen" <jansenanne@hotmail.com>
Subject: zorn's jewish identity
Hi!
I'm writing my final thesis in Musicology at the University of Amsterdam,
Holland on Zorn, specificly on his jewish identity. I'm investigating among
others the discussion between those who say Zorn's jewishness is 'radical
kitsch' (as a mr. Shatz said in a NY Times article) and those who say it's
not. Therefor I'm looking at several things, such as:
1) What does Zorn want with (t)his jewishness?
2) Why did he call it radical?
3) Do you only see this jewishness in the obvious Masada/ Bar Khokba albums,
or in others, of which you wouldn't think it in the first place, too?
4) What about his Japanese identity?
5) How did the premiere of Kristallnacht in Munchen in '92 look like, who
were there, and what was the reaction towards the piece and the manifest he
wrote with Ribot then etc.?
Well, I'm searching here in Holland and on the net for information, but I
thought I might ask the zornlisters aswell. So, if anybody has any comment
on this subject, or knows about journal-articles (which are not easy for me
to find on the net) or other sources of information, or wants to just say
something about it, where I didn't think of yet.... I really would love to
hear it!
Thanks allready and best for you all,
bye, Anne-Marie
_________________________________________________________________
Download MSN Explorer gratis van http://explorer.msn.nl/intl.asp
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 13:55:56 +0200
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es>
Subject: Dave Douglas' "Witness"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01C14B49.F55B9440
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi everyone!
someone asked an opinion about Douglas' Witness. I think I gave it some =
days ago, but anyway, I'll be happy to insist that this is really one of =
the best recordings I've heard - maybe the best- during 2001. I confess =
I was really suspicious about the album when knew about the line-up, not =
because it's not amazing, but because I pre-conceived "Witness" as an =
intermediate point between "Sanctuary" and "Five", both of which have =
never made a dent on me.=20
The compositions are really dense and the mixture between jazz, free =
improv and electronics is pretty diluted. All the musicians' =
contributions are no less than superb. I especially dig Douglas, Sarin =
and Mori here. It's also curious to hear Tom Waits vocals on a 24-minute =
track.
It's such a hard-to-describe album, since the blend of styles is so =
confusing-- This shouldn't be a weakness, IMHO. Just the opposite.
Fortunately, the Sextet version will be visiting Barcelona on October =
30th. I'll let you know what it was like. As I recall, the line-up is =
Chris Potter (sitting in for Speed), Douglas, Sarin, Gress, Mori and =
Feldman.
See you,
Efr=E9n
- ------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01C14B49.F55B9440
Content-Type: text/html;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2919.6307" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Hi everyone!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>someone asked an opinion about Douglas' Witness. I =
think I=20
gave it some days ago, but anyway, I'll be happy to insist that this is =
really=20
one of the best recordings I've heard - maybe the best- during =
2001. I=20
confess I was really suspicious about the album when knew about the =
line-up, not because it's not amazing, but because =
I pre-conceived=20
"Witness" as an intermediate point between "Sanctuary" =
and "Five",=20
both of which have never made a dent on me. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>The compositions are really dense and the mixture =
between=20
jazz, free improv and electronics is pretty diluted. All the musicians'=20
contributions are no less than superb. I especially dig Douglas, =
Sarin and=20
Mori here. It's also curious to hear Tom Waits vocals on a 24-minute=20
track.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>It's such a hard-to-describe album, since the blend =
of styles=20
is so confusing-- This shouldn't be a weakness, IMHO. Just the=20
opposite.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Fortunately, the Sextet version will be visiting =
Barcelona on=20
October 30th. I'll let you know what it was like. As I recall, the =
line-up is=20
Chris Potter (sitting in for Speed), Douglas, Sarin, Gress, Mori and=20
Feldman.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>See you,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Efr=E9n</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>
- ------=_NextPart_000_00AA_01C14B49.F55B9440--
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 13:41:14 +0200
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?= <efrendv@yahoo.es>
Subject: Zorn/Fantomas/Bungle (too long)
> Can't remember right now which is which, but I do remember that the one
that
> has "Pablo" on it is very good. I feel that you might like this track;
very
> laid-back. (As far as I remember, Zorn wrote in the liner notes that this
was
> one of his best pieces to date.)
HI!
The piece that Patrice mentions is "Pueblo" -- Pablo's a Spanish name,
Patrice!! :-) --from Filmworks IV. Really good. The second piece of the
album has a similar instrumentation and mood as "Duras", another Zorn
essential IMHO.
If you love "The Gift" so much, besides the so-mentioned "Big Gundown"
re-issue, I would get the other two Music Romance volumes. There are some
Naked City performances in "Music for Children" by Prelapse (who have a
release in Avant). I share Patrice's POV- there's really something missing
on there. Maybe we're too used to the NC original sound and this gets really
strange for us.
All in all, I would suggest to get all the Filmworks- Number 10 is really
close to "The Gift" as it represents, for me, the kindest side of Zorn's
music. The best film music for me is included in volumes II, III, VI, VII. I
guess you'll have to get them all, since each one of us is recommending
something different!!
If you like the "weirdest" Zorn stuff, I would recommend what, IMHO, are his
best compositions: "Elegy"; "Duras/Duchamp" and "Kristallnacht".
With regards to Fantomas, their two albums are excellent, but if you really
want to know what the band is about, get their first. As someone said, it's
much in a Naked City vein, in their own particular style (much closer to
regular metal).
As most of those who have talked about Mr. Bungle, I think that their best
work is "Disco Volante" by far. It's their most complex album and is
probably closer to a Zorn "environment". All of them are worth the money,
anyway.
As to Mike Patton's solo albums, BE CAREFUL!!. I like them both, but I'm not
sure if this has something to do with my fanatism towards that guy. I would
suggest "Pranzo Oltranzista", much more "listenable" than the first one
(voice solo).
Sorry about the length of my message. Also, you must be noting that getting
into Zorn's work and his related artists means going irremediably straight
to rack and ruin!!
Hope this helps.
Enjoy,
EfrΘn del Valle
n.p: (how could it be other way?) John Zorn: "Filmworks III" and more
specifically, the STUNNING Ribot/Zorn duo.
n.r: Marquis de Sade: "La Philosophie dans le Boudoir"
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 14:24:56 +0200
From: patRice <iqhouse@yahoo.de>
Subject: Re: zorn's jewish identity
I first thought I'd answer to Annemarie off list, but I changed my mind since
I'm 100 % sure that some of you might have some important additional
information and/or thoughts to my comments.
annemarie jansen wrote:
> Hi!
>
> I'm writing my final thesis in Musicology at the University of Amsterdam,
> Holland on Zorn, specificly on his jewish identity. I'm investigating among
Will this be made available to us? I hope so!
> 1) What does Zorn want with (t)his jewishness?
I'm not quite sure, but didn't he say something about this in the interview
featured in Duckworth's "Talking Music"? As far as I remember he said there
that it wasn't until quite late in his career that he discovered his "Jewish
identity".
>
> 2) Why did he call it radical?
No idea.
But I do remember that he was booked at the Munich festival you mention a
little later to programme two nights according to his wishes. The nights were
entitled "Radical New Jewish Culture" - off the top of my head I remember
Elliott Sharp, Richard Teitelbaum, Laurie Anderson, Lou Reed (feat. Marc
Ribot), the Dave Soldier String Quartet and Zorn ("Kristallnacht" performing
there.
>
> 3) Do you only see this jewishness in the obvious Masada/ Bar Khokba albums,
> or in others, of which you wouldn't think it in the first place, too?
Would first have to think about this...
> 4) What about his Japanese identity?
He does give some info regarding this matter in the liner notes to "Spillane" -
if memory serves right.
>
> 5) How did the premiere of Kristallnacht in Munchen in '92 look like, who
> were there, and what was the reaction towards the piece and the manifest he
> wrote with Ribot then etc.?
I was at that concert, but I can't remember seeing and/or reading the manifest
you mention.
At the door, people were handed a sheet of paper stating that just before the
start of the performance all doors of the venue would be locked and that no-one
would be allowed to leave the concert - unless in the case of a medical
emergency.
I remember overhearing people say things like "Typical John Zorn attitude".
(Re: the leaflet mentioned above.)
I personally loved the idea of the doors being locked, I thought it was great.
Needless to say, some people did seem to feel rather uncomfortable about not
being free to leave.
The performance itself was not particularly spectacular - they played the
pieces featured on the CD (Zorn conducting); though I can't remember whether
they played track 2 exactly as it is on the CD.
Another thing I remember - during rehearsal (which I attended) before the gig -
is the comment of a Jewish musician who was sitting right behind me. He said:
"They should put up a big PA System in the places in Israel that the Arabs
still want and play this stuff - it would make them leave volunatrily." I also
remember him telling someone that all the Jewish performers of the festival had
some sort of protection by bodyguards.
Hope this helps,
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 14:35:10 +0200
From: patRice <iqhouse@yahoo.de>
Subject: Re: Zorn/Fantomas/Bungle (too long)
EfrΘn del Valle wrote:
> The piece that Patrice mentions is "Pueblo" -- Pablo's a Spanish name,
> Patrice!! :-) --from Filmworks IV. Really good. The second piece of the
> album has a similar instrumentation and mood as "Duras", another Zorn
> essential IMHO.
Of course - "Pueblo".
Sorry. I already thought this can't be quite right when I typed it... ;-)
>
> If you love "The Gift" so much, besides the so-mentioned "Big Gundown"
> re-issue, I would get the other two Music Romance volumes. There are some
> Naked City performances in "Music for Children" by Prelapse (who have a
> release in Avant). I share Patrice's POV- there's really something missing
> on there. Maybe we're too used to the NC original sound and this gets really
> strange for us.
I'm sure it's got something to do with us being used to the "real" Naked City;
but I found to be the "Prelapse" sound very "thin". I still don't understand
why Zorn decided to put those on the CD.
> If you like the "weirdest" Zorn stuff, I would recommend what, IMHO, are his
> best compositions: "Elegy"; "Duras/Duchamp" and "Kristallnacht".
"Duras/Duchamp" and "Kristallnacht" are definitely worth checking out; agreed.
>
> With regards to Fantomas, their two albums are excellent, but if you really
> want to know what the band is about, get their first.
I haven't heard their first one, but on the Amazon site (Germany or US) there
were some awful reviews, so I decided not to buy it.
So can you guys and gals recommend it to me if I like "Torture Garden" and
hardcore metal in general?
patRice
np: Mr. Bungle, California
nr: Messiaen / Samuel, Music And Colour
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 08:42:50 -0400
From: "Sean Westergaard" <seawes@allmusic.com>
Subject: RE: What Influenced "The Gift"?
for "chilled out surf music", try Painted Desert by Ikue Mori with Marc
Ribot and Robert Quine. it's on Avant. sean
- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com
[mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of andrew
Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 1:26 AM
To: Zorn Mailing List
Subject: What Influenced "The Gift"?
Hey everyone-
I absolutely LOVE "the gift." I'm curious as to what you guys think of it,
but i'm also curious about a few things...
mainly, what artists influenced the sound of "the gift"? I like it so much,
that I want to find more stuff like it. Besides the obvious influences-
Martin Denny, Antonio Carlos Jobim, etc.- what albums/artists/composers are
similar in vibe, aesthetics, and sound to "the gift"?
I really love "the quiet surf"- i've always loved the tremelo-d out surf
guitar sound, but what artists have done that more "chilled out surf music",
as opposed to the shredding and rave-ups of Dick Dale, the Ventures, the
Surfaris, Shadowy Men on a Shadowy Planet, etc. I love that stuff, but what
artists/compoers specialize in that "chilled surf" sound?
Also, i love "snake catcher"- it's one of my favorites. What other stuff out
there sounds like that/has a similar vibe?
Ditto for "mao's moon"- i love the almost noir vibe that the song has- and
douglas' trumpet is exquisite. What other stuff out there reflects the vibe
of this song?
Thanks for your help and insight...
andrew
- -
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 09:44:23 -0400
From: David Keffer <keffer@planetc.com>
Subject: INCUS CDRs
A couple weeks back I posted regarding the 2 new CDRs on Incus
featuring Derek Bailey on spoken word and guitar. Somebody on
the list (forget who) asked for a review (citing that $15 seemed
high for a cdr). So, I received my copies of the CDRs in the
mail yesterday, and I have listened to one of the two, "CHATS"
and here is a short review.
I am confused about the difference between a cdr and an ordinary
cd, when the cdr only contains music. In this case, a cdr is a cd.
Both play music on any old cd player, so why these releases are
called cdr is something of a mystery. Presumably, calling a release
a cdr indicates that the release is more of a "home brew" than
an official release. I think that is the intention in calling this
release a cdr; it asks the listener to be a little more lenient on sound
quality and content control. That said, "Chats" is a collection of Derek
Bailey spoken word pieces on par with any other Derek Bailey spoken
word pieces, such as are contained on "Domestic & public pieces" (Emanem
4001). In fact some of the pieces on "Chats" seem to be of the same
vintage. If you enjoy DB's story-telling narratives such as "Unity Theater"
on "Domestic & public pieces" then you will like "Chats".
There is a funny little narrative, describing the advantages of playing
the violin over the guitar, while working as a violin/guitar duet in
restaurants.
There are DB's music letters to Eugene Chadbourne (with DB playing around
with Henry Kaiser-esque orchestral synthesizer tools on the guitar), Henry
Kaiser, Fred Frith, Richard Leigh, Steve Beresford. Most very funny and
very good.
There is one track of music only, "Barcelona", where DB is playing (pretty
much) straight for over two minutes.
One inexplicable track with no music, just DB reading over a menu in a
Chinese Restaurant. Dull. The inclusion of this track must be why the
issue is called a cdr.
David K.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 06:57:47 -0700
From: "s~Z" <keithmar@msn.com>
Subject: Re: INCUS CDRs
Re: CD-R
http://searchstorage.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid5_gci507073,
00.html
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 10:27:49 -0400
From: "Steve Smith" <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
Subject: RE: INCUS CDRs
I think CD-R is generally used in reference to the fact that these releases
were probably produced individually in micro-batches on a home duplicating
machine, rather than mass-produced in a factory. CD-R doesn't necessarily
refer at all to non-musical data (are you thinking CD-ROM, perhaps?), but
"CD-recordable." Flip the discs over - if the data side is green or blue,
it's almost certainly home-duplicated.
I would guess that this means these releases were perceived to have less
commercial potential than the "average" Incus release (there are two new
ones in the latest Forced Exposure mailing, one of which is led by Nels
Cline if I remember correctly). That in itself is pretty amusing.
Your description is intriguing. I wonder if this is a compilation of odds
and ends that Bailey had laying around. On the face of it, the "violin and
guitar" track you describe seems to be Bailey's cameo appearance on Jon
Rose's album 'Violin Music for Restaurants.' And, of course, I'm certainly
one of those hard-bitten fans to whom the notion of Bailey reading a Chinese
menu is tantalizing. Not quite on a par with the apocryphal Neil Young fan
willing to buy a turd in a brown paper bag, but close, perhaps.
Can't wait to get my mitts on these myself.
Steve Smith
ssmith36@sprynet.com
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #580
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