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Zorn List Digest       Tuesday, October 2 2001       Volume 03 : Number 579



In this issue:
-
       Re: Dave Douglas Witness - sextet version
       Frederic Rzewski in RealAudio on Mappings, week beginning Oct 2, 2001
       Re: Jazz History
       What Influenced "The Gift"?
       Re: new Zorn fan, and intro;
       Re: Jazz History
       Re: Jazz History
       Re: FANTOMAS, PATTON, ETC.
       Re: Jazz History
       Re: new Zorn fan, and intro;

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 19:52:07 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Dave Douglas Witness - sextet version

>>Hi all:

Someone asked recently about a sextet version of Dave Douglas's Witness band
that was about to hit the road.  An excellent review from the New York Times
last week reveals the members:

Douglas, Chris Potter (subbing for Chris Speed), Jamie Saft, Ikue Mori, Brad
Jones, Michael Sarin.

The review emphasized that with this project, Douglas has become the first
jazz musician to meet the electronic micro-prov scene head on, and
successfully, at that.  E-mail me privately if you want to see it.

Steve Smith<<

    Thanks Steve for the info.  I was curious about the lineup since I was
going to see them next week in Santa Cruz.  The Seattle lineup sounded a
little off, listing Craig Taborn which would make 2 keyboardists.  Since I
had previously looked at davedouglas.com, I was expecting the string group
with the addition of Speed, Daly, and Mori.  I haven't gotten around to
getting the cd yet.  How is it?  I presume its one of his more adventurous
discs.  Cheers,
        John Threadgould
        np  Le Phare- Sclavis & Struber Jazztet

- -

------------------------------

Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 22:33:26 -0500
From: Herb Levy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Frederic Rzewski in RealAudio on Mappings, week beginning Oct 2, 2001

Hi y'all,

This week on Mappings <http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/>,
you'll hear music by Frederic Rzewski, including Attica, Coming
Together, De Profundis, 4 North American Ballads, Mayn Yingele, Les
moutons de Panurge, Song & Dance, 36 Variations on "The People United
Will Never Be Defeated," and Whangdoodles.

The show went online Monday evening around 10:00 PM (-0500 GMT) and
will remain online at the above URL for a week. Last week's program
(featuring  music by Battuto, John Butcher & Derek Bailey, John
Butcher & Rhodri Davies, Axel Dorner/Fred Lonberg-Holm/Michael
Zerang, Double Double, Arnold Dreyblatt, Emergency Quartet, Mel
Graves, Caroline Kraabel, Helmut Lachenmann, Steuart Liebig, Evan
Parker/Barry Guy/Lawrence Casserley, Quatour Accorde, Rebecca
Saunders, Space Between, Philipp Wachsmann, and Julia Wolfe) is still
available in the Mappings archive
<http://www.antennaradio.com/avant/mappings/index1.htm >, where you
can also find play lists for the program since it began in March 1998.

Hope you tune in to the program.

Bests,

Herb

- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 22:12:59 -0700
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jazz History

> I've been looking at Jazz History Compilations.  I've noticed lack of
> representation of the last 10-20 (maybe even 30) years of development.  I
> don't think Wynton Marsalis is representative of jazz of the 80s and 90s,
> though I could be biased or wrong.  What recordings/artists would the
> posters include on an accurate history of jazz compilation CD? Thanks
>
> Zach
>
> -
Zach --
I'm not a fan of all these people, but they all seem to have made a mark
that has changed something about the complexion of jazz, for better or worse
(and that's strictly a matter of individual taste).

70s
Cedar Walton's Eastern Rebellion
the "reborn" Dexter Gordon & Art Pepper
Pat Martino
Weather Report
Mahavishnu
Rahsaan Roland Kirk
Carla Bley
Jaco Pastorious
Pat Metheny
Billy Cobham
Keith Jarrett solo
Richie Beirach/Dave Liebman
Grover Washington Jr
Brecker Bros
Herbie Hancock

80s
Mike Stern
John Scofield
Tim Berne
John Zorn
Bill Frisell w/Joey Baron
James Blood Ulmer
Wynton/Branford Marsalis
Kenny Garrett
Marc Ribot

90s
Don Byron
Dave Douglas
Mark Feldman
Diana Kral
Holly Cole
Leon Parker
Charlie Hunter
Ellery Eskelin
Joe Lovano
Uri Caine



- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 01:25:34 -0400
From: "andrew" <[e-mail]>
Subject: What Influenced "The Gift"?

Hey everyone-

I absolutely LOVE "the gift." I'm curious as to what you guys think of it,
but i'm also curious about a few things...
mainly, what artists influenced the sound of "the gift"? I like it so much,
that I want to find more stuff like it. Besides the obvious influences-
Martin Denny, Antonio Carlos Jobim, etc.- what albums/artists/composers are
similar in vibe, aesthetics, and sound to "the gift"?

I really love "the quiet surf"- i've always loved the tremelo-d out surf
guitar sound, but what artists have done that more "chilled out surf music",
as opposed to the shredding and rave-ups of Dick Dale, the Ventures, the
Surfaris, Shadowy Men on a Shadowy Planet, etc. I love that stuff, but what
artists/compoers specialize in that "chilled surf" sound?

Also, i love "snake catcher"- it's one of my favorites. What other stuff out
there sounds like that/has a similar vibe?

Ditto for "mao's moon"- i love the almost noir vibe that the song has- and
douglas' trumpet is exquisite. What other stuff out there reflects the vibe
of this song?

Thanks for your help and insight...

andrew


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 01:29:54 -0400
From: "andrew" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new Zorn fan, and intro;

Thanks for the help, everyone; I'm a huge Morricone fan, so i'm going to
check out "the big gundown", and "elegy" sounds great as well.

Then, it's on to the Filmworks series...i love the first one, and I hear
number 4 is great.

Also, "songs from the hermetic theatre" sounds interesting, although I can't
find a copy yet.....and I heard he did a really cool album of Cartoon music,
which sounds interesting as well.

What about Naked City's "Grand Guignol"? I only have the self-titled
one...how does "GG' compare?

Same with "Music for children: music romance 1"- i hear it's a lot noisier
than the other two music romance albums. What's the word on this album?

Thanks!

andrew


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 01:18:38 -0400
From: "andrew" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jazz History

> Diana Krall

I have to take issue with this one; she's about as essential to the history
of jazz as marsha ball. (ugh).

But seriously; other jazz greats of the 90's-

Susie Ibarra- One of the most amazing drummers/percussionists i've heard,
alone, or with her ensemble and others.

What about the downtown NYC gods? William Parker (bass)and Matthew Shipp
(piano/keys)? These guys are really re-inventing, and are destined to be
legendary (hell, they already are).

Also- Brad Mehldau has done some decent stuff; at least he's attempting to
be relevant by covering Radiohead, instead of the same tired standards. :)

Andrew Horton, Music Director
WUVT 90.7FM, Blacksburg, VA
[e-mail]
www.wuvt.vt.edu
Office Phone- (540)-231-9881
AOL Instant Messenger: Yrblueshogun



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 03 Oct 2001 00:24:55 -0700
From: Skip Heller <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jazz History

>> Diana Krall
>
> I have to take issue with this one; she's about as essential to the history
> of jazz as marsha ball. (ugh).
>
> But seriously; other jazz greats of the 90's-
>
> Susie Ibarra- One of the most amazing drummers/percussionists i've heard,
> alone, or with her ensemble and others.
>
> What about the downtown NYC gods? William Parker (bass)and Matthew Shipp
> (piano/keys)? These guys are really re-inventing, and are destined to be
> legendary (hell, they already are).
>
> Also- Brad Mehldau has done some decent stuff; at least he's attempting to
> be relevant by covering Radiohead, instead of the same tired standards. :)
>
Whether or not you like someone or what they do doesn't mean they haven't
made a mark.  Ms Krall has been bashed by people who claim to be really
smart or really hip, but those people tend to overlook the fact that she's
popularized a certain segment of the American songbook and done so in a jazz
way.  Personally, I don't think it's her job to be Tim berne.  She's a good
pianist (although far from a great one), and a singer with a lot of taste,
even if her delivery is not always really exciting.  She is to jazz what
George Strait is to country music, and I personally think George Strait is
more listenable than just about any hat act.  He's a very conservative
traditionalist, but I am by no means repelled either by traditionalism or --
if it's tempered with taste -- conservativism.  I take exception to people
who label her the anti-Christ.  She's a person who sings standards.  She
happens to be a looker.  She can actually use her sexuality to sell some
records full of Russell Malone solos.  Works for me.

Personally I don't find William Parker to be as interesting as certain other
bass players, and Matthew Shipp doesn't move me much at all.

As for covering Radiohead making you relevant, I don't know.  I don't think
their tunes are all that special, and, as much as Brad is a brilliant
pianist, I don't really hear anything in him I haven't heard in other
pianists, at least not in the sense of hearing things in Joey Baron that I
never really heard in other drummers.

skip h


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 10:06:10 +0200
From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: FANTOMAS, PATTON, ETC.

Totally agree that all the Bungle releases are worth having.

I got the 1st one just after it came out - and although I've listened to
it A LOT, I still enjoy hearing it every single time I put it on.

"California" is well described by Matthew, as is "Disco Volante".

Just buy them all!

patRice

np: Fantomas, The Director's Cut
nr: Thomas Wilson, Swastika - Earliest Known Symbol And Its Migrations

Matthew Mitchell wrote:

> All the Bungles are worth getting, though I still hold Disco Volante
> to be the best.  It's definitely the weirdest, the most experimental,
> though there's an experimental edge to everything the band does.
> California is them trying to be the Beach Boys meets metal meets film
> music meets Taraf de Haidouks, etc.  It's the poppiest of them all, so
> if you like catchy melodies, that's the one.  The first one is great,
> the most party-oriented, though I'm totally burned out on it.  It came
> out when I was a junior in high school, and for two years, that,
> Torture Garden and Frank Zappa dominated about 75% of my listening.
> The Zappa is all that's held up for me over the years, FWIW.  If you
> haven't heard it, though, definitely get it.
>


- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 04:06:53 -0400
From: "andrew" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Jazz History

> Whether or not you like someone or what they do doesn't mean they haven't
> made a mark.  Ms Krall has been bashed by people who claim to be really
> smart or really hip, but those people tend to overlook the fact that she's
> popularized a certain segment of the American songbook and done so in a
jazz
> way.  Personally, I don't think it's her job to be Tim berne.  She's a
good
> pianist (although far from a great one), and a singer with a lot of taste,
> even if her delivery is not always really exciting.  She is to jazz what
> George Strait is to country music, and I personally think George Strait is
> more listenable than just about any hat act.  He's a very conservative
> traditionalist, but I am by no means repelled either by traditionalism
or --
> if it's tempered with taste -- conservativism.  I take exception to people
> who label her the anti-Christ.  She's a person who sings standards.  She
> happens to be a looker.  She can actually use her sexuality to sell some
> records full of Russell Malone solos.  Works for me.

But that's exactly my point; there's no correlation between an artist's
ability to make something accesible/easily consumable to the masses, and
their contribution to the history of the artform. George Straight has done
absolutely nothing to further the boundaries of Country music; one could
argue that he's actually done harm to the genre! Sure, ol' George has played
pop music with a country face on it (go ahead and lump in Garth, Faith Hill,
Shania, etc.), and made that particular package accessible to people that
want something with a little twang in it, but in the long history of
"country" music (go ahead and start with Child's collected ballads, then
continue through the Carters, Harry Smith's anthologies and the Lomax's
recordings, and the country stars of the 40's, 50's, 60's, etc.), Straight
hasn't furthered the art one bit. He's simply packaged up cliches ("born
country!") and made them accessible. What of songwriters like Jeff Tweedy
and Jay Farrar (of Uncle Tupelo together, recently of Wilco and Son Volt,
respectively) who concocted songs that were undeniably "country", but also
contained themes, aesthetics, and even SOUNDS (mellotrons, vocoders,
analogue synths) that were literally at odds with country music. What of the
Handsome Family, who bring a Cole Porter-esque sensibility to songs that can
only be described as 100% "traditional" country songs, yet contain lyrics
that are violent, maudlin mini-stories, dripping of Poe and Gorey? Then,
there's the fact that they record their songs in Pro-Tools, and often employ
synthetic instruments. What of Johnny Dowd, who has re-invented the murder
ballad? These artists aren't known to the "majority" of people, like
Straight, Garth, Shania, etc., yet they have done far more for the genre
than those "mainstream" artists.

Following the rationale that Krall has made that music accessible, is Kenny
G also an important figure in the history of Jazz? He's a lot like Zorn...
(wink).


> Personally I don't find William Parker to be as interesting as certain
other
> bass players,
>and Matthew Shipp doesn't move me much at all.

I totally agree with you; yet some of their experiments have been amazing
from any point-of-view. Shipp's "pastoral composure" taught me to listen to
the piano (of course, that's just a personal observation), and Parker's
Magic Huey Orchestra (i fucked-up the name, but i can't quite remember it
right now) re-invented the "big band."

> As for covering Radiohead making you relevant, I don't know.  I don't
think
> their tunes are all that special, and, as much as Brad is a brilliant
> pianist, I don't really hear anything in him I haven't heard in other
> pianists, at least not in the sense of hearing things in Joey Baron that I
> never really heard in other drummers.

Great point. My argument "for" Mehldau is actually similar to yours for
Diana Krall, but there's a crucial difference. Krall is serving re-hashed
standards (which are tired, "tried-but-true" songs that "everyone knows") to
predominantly complacent listeners. In the same sense that, say, Alicia
Keyes allows them to "add a little R&B to their collection", Krall or Kenny
G allow them to "add a little easy-listenin' jazz" to their musical
collection. No new avenues are opened; the listener isn't compelled to seek
out more, denser jazz; they're happy with their "token" jazz album.

Mehldau is similar- he makes slightly-avant piano jazz accessible to "rock
kids." I'm the music director at a college radio station, and I can't tell
you how many kids have used Mehldau's "radiohead covers" as stepping-stones
to the world of jazz. In that sense, Mehldau's appropriation of Radiohead's
songs acts as a "gateway drug" to the world of jazz; which is inherently
denser than the world of rock. =)  Kids hear Mehldau relating to something
that they relate to; radiohead- and they begin to listen to the way that he
works with the song. They check out his other songs; they begin to truly
listen. They come to me, asking "this is great; what next"? I refer them to
Shipp, to Uri Caine, to Zorn and also to Monk- they begin to explore on
their own.

I guess my argument for Mehldau, over Krall, is that Mehldau makes the music
(jazz) accessible to those that then venture forth within the genre-
learning about it, appreciating it. Krall simply takes the genre, condenses
it into an easily purchasable, easily digestible package, and serves it up
to the complacent listener. (of course, this is a personal judgement, but
that's what opinions are about).

On a similar note (to the Mehldau rationale), Uri Caine is making jazz/dense
funk accessible to hip hop fans; through his work with Ahmir "Questlove" of
the Roots. The Philadelphia Experiment album has sold heaps at the store I
work at, mostly to hip hop kids who are really looking for something less
ephemeral than the latest MC/producer combo. The association- with
Questlove- allows them to enjoy Caine's stellar nu-funk.

Whew....enough talking. I await repsonses!

andrew




- -

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 10:17:09 +0200
From: patRice <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: new Zorn fan, and intro;

andrew wrote:

> Thanks for the help, everyone; I'm a huge Morricone fan, so i'm going to
> check out "the big gundown", and "elegy" sounds great as well.

Good decision, Andrew. They are both fantastic releases.
Like someone else already pointed out: make sure you get the "Big Gundown 15th
Anniversary" issue that came out on Tzadik.

>
>
> Then, it's on to the Filmworks series...i love the first one, and I hear
> number 4 is great.

Can't remember right now which is which, but I do remember that the one that
has "Pablo" on it is very good. I feel that you might like this track; very
laid-back. (As far as I remember, Zorn wrote in the liner notes that this was
one of his best pieces to date.)

>
> What about Naked City's "Grand Guignol"? I only have the self-titled
> one...how does "GG' compare?

Personally I feel that all the Naked City releases are very different from one
another; and all of them worth having.
"Grand Guignol" starts off with a 17-minute improvised (or game?) piece - can't
remember exactly...
Then there are about eight tracks that are re-arrangements of classical pieces
by Debussy, Orlando Di Lasso (sp?), and some others.
After those tracks you get all the "Torture Garden" tracks, minus the ones that
were already featured on the self-titled debut album.
I also recommend you check out NC's "Radio", if you enjoy "The Gift" so much.


> Same with "Music for children: music romance 1"- i hear it's a lot noisier
> than the other two music romance albums. What's the word on this album?

If I remember correctly, this is the one featuring the band Prelapse, playing
some previously unrecorded "Torture Garden" era pieces; I did not like the
sound of Prelapse at all. There was something missing.
There's also a, weird-ish, I feel, classical piece - violin, percussion and ???
(can't remember). Still don't like it that much...
Also a piece dedicated to Edgard Varese; for wind-machines. Sounds interesting,
but I can't listen to it too often...

Hope this helps.

patRice


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #579
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