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Zorn List Digest      Wednesday, August 22 2001      Volume 03 : Number 539



In this issue:
-
       Re: the new yorker
       Re: Murakami (was summer reading)
       Re: Naked City
       Re: groundbreaking: the inverse
       Re: Fwd: Zorn & ?Zionism?
       writing about music is like...
       AMM & more (no Zorn)
       Re: RE:groundbreaking
       the shape of [?] to come...
       Re: writing about music is like...
       Re: Fwd: Zorn & ?Zionism?
       Cultural vs. regular Zionism

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:43:40 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: the new yorker

On Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:39:49 -0700  [e-mail] wrote:
>
> p.s. i should have written: speaking of birdcalls, why has zorn LATELY
> neglected this groundbreaking instrument. ... and yes, i haven't been
> listening to zorn much lately either. but little can match hearing for the
> first time "shuffle boil" on that monk tribute LP, then tracking down "the
          ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Totally agree! A masterpiece of concision and energy (with "The Violent Death
Of Dutch Schultz"). Should have been released as a single with an MTV video!

BTW, there were rumors about releasing finally the complete 2xLP of THAT'S THE
WAY I FEEL NOW on CD (and not the toddler friendly version that came out a
decade ago -- without Zorn, of course...). Paul Audino was expecting it by the
end of 2000. Any updates?

    Patrice.

NP: PRODUCT OF THE ENVIRONMENT: Tricky
NR: 100 YEARS OF SOLITUDE: G.G.M.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:48:45 -0700
From: hatta <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Murakami (was summer reading)

I think the current New Yorker Short story,'Honey Pie' is a cute
story if not stunning and it seems pretty resolved (for Murakami).
It is also conveniently available online at
<http://www.newyorker.com/FICTION>  As for his next book it is
expected to be out April 2002 and the literal translation is: 'All
God's Children Will Dance'.  Also the long delayed Rubin
bio/treatment 'Haruki Murakmai and the Music of Words'(Harvill) looks
like it will probably come out in 2003.

I agree with your assessment of 'Sputnik Sweetheart'  However the
post Greece bit, it really stands in opposition in a fashion that
implies perhaps more than I got out of it. I definitely have to read
it again, to really make sense of it.

- -Robert

>
><<Haruki Murakami: Sputnik Sweetheart>>
>
>I thought this was pretty good. I divide Murakami's books into novels and
>"entertainments", a la Graham Greene, and I thought SS was the best of his
>entertainments thus far.
>
>for Murakami completists, there's a very good short piece in the new issue of
>Granta, Issue 74. his New Yorker stories are always excerpts from upcoming
>novels, but this felt like an actual story, and Amazon UK doesn't list
>anything new coming up for him.
>
>Jon
>www.erstwhilerecords.com
>

- --
"Education is experience, and the essence of experience is self-reliance."
  -T.H. White, 'The Sword in the Stone'

- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:31:49 +0200
From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Naked City

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      How come we get 5 live Masada CD's and no Naked City Live albums?  =
They performed a number of songs live that never ended up on any =
album...  Imagine the excitement this would drum up...-Theo


All the songs, and the author's rights, of Masada tunes, are by Zorn, =
nothing has to be sorted out on the legal side.=20

But with the *MANY* soundtrack tunes Naked City played live, author =
rights can be very unclear at this moment. This sort of thing could very =
well turn out to be a big financial loss for Tzadik: there might be =
nothing in it, only tedious work.

Remember Zappa's LETS MAKE A JAZZ NOISE HERE: it was reprinted without =
the Stravinsky Histoire du Soldat excerpt, because the owners of the =
work didn't approve. (I have no idea btw if this omission is still there =
in current pressings).

Remco Takken


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3105.105" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV>
<P><STRONG>      How come we get 5 live Masada =
CD's and=20
no Naked City Live albums?  They performed a number of songs live =
that=20
never ended up on any album...  Imagine the excitement this would =
drum=20
up...</STRONG><STRONG>-Theo</STRONG><BR></P>
<P>All the songs, and the author's rights, of Masada tunes, are by Zorn, =
nothing=20
has to be sorted out on the legal side. </P>
<P>But with the *MANY* soundtrack tunes Naked City played live, author =
rights=20
can be very unclear at this moment. This sort of thing could very =
well turn=20
out to be a big financial loss for Tzadik: there might be nothing in it, =
only=20
tedious work.</P></DIV>
<DIV>Remember Zappa's LETS MAKE A JAZZ NOISE HERE: it was reprinted =
without the=20
Stravinsky Histoire du Soldat excerpt, because the owners of the work =
didn't=20
approve. (I have no idea btw if this omission is still there in =
current=20
pressings).</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV>Remco Takken</DIV>
<DIV> </DIV></BODY></HTML>

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- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:00:44 +0200
From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: groundbreaking: the inverse

> With all this talk of jazz pianists, Zorn, and
> Stravinsky, I was thinking about composers/artists
> whose breakthroughs, or more specifically, whose most
> radical work, came _later_ in their careers...maybe
> even not until the end.  I remember reading a Kyle
> Gann article dealing with this, perhaps about Morton
> Feldman, can't remember.  Can anyone think of examples
> of this

I am not sure, but wasn't Schoenberg 48 years old when he fully defined the
12tone theory for the first time in his work? I have no books at hand to
verify this, I just try a shot.
Remco Takken


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 19:57:01 +0200
From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Zorn & ?Zionism?

> >from day one. Why the conspiracy tone? Are labels producing (say) Gypsy
or
>
> >Balkan music "suspicious"?
> Gypsy music is not a 'reimagining' of culture.  'Traditional' forms are
most often best mastered by traditional players.

The re-imagining of culture is a major marketing strategy in selling world
music today. Is Django Reinhardt a traditional player? What is a
'traditional' player/ gypsy? Is he dressing up like one, and if he is, would
his music be of lesser quality? An avant-garde gypsy label, with a lavish
back catalogue of French and Balkan 78s transferred to digital might just be
the one thing that will emphasize the true strength of their music:
richness, not traditionalism per se.

>Zorn's own Radical Jewish CUlture music is often about the Jewish
>experience, but usually has almost nothing (overtly) to do with traditional
>Jewish music.

You said it: *traditional*. There may be others styles around in Jewish
music. A culture is not only defined by its tradition, but is also measured
by its flexibility and freshness.

>Despite this, the players are exclusively Jewish, just about (correct me if
>I'm wrong about this, are there other non-Jews besides Anthony Coleman on
those CDs?).

You mean in the Radical Jewish Music series? Why would that be? There is an
Extreme Japan bin for the rest of us...

>All of this without a mention of the crimes being done in the name of
>Judaism as we speak.

Are you serious? (I don't know if I have permission to breath here), but I
don't recall the recent JAZZ IN PARIS cd-reissues make
any mention of the imperialistic crimes made on behalf of the French Empire,
or any apology in the editions of Bachs Cantates.

Remco Takken



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:58:51 -0700
From: [e-mail]
Subject: writing about music is like...

anybody read and have any comment on:

1. Dead Man Blues (Jelly Roll Morton biography)
2. Paul Bley (auto?) biography
3. Bossa Nova (focus on Joao Gilberto, I believe)

?

NP. the office clack of keyboards
NR. House Resolution 2475


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:00:47 -0400
From: "Alan Kayser" <[e-mail]>
Subject: AMM & more (no Zorn)

Brian Oelwnick wrote:

<< I'd have to say "Tunes without Measure or
End" is on the so-so side. >>

Seconded here.  I'm not sure why they think this is one of their best
performances ever, perhaps you had to be there.  That's kinda the point of
AMM I guess.  One of the things I like about AMM is the element of surprise
and edge in their music.  My sense here is that Tilbury's Feldman influence
has surfaced, bringing with it a certain calmness not present in their 20th
century work.  Total lack of aggression on this new cd, it's almost like
their twisted version of ugh smooth jazz. Never would have expected so-so
for AMM.  Surprisingly, I find all three of them to be more AMM-ish lately
in projects away from AMM, certainly in the three duo cds with Evan Parker
(Rowe's Dark Rags and Prevost's Most Materiall both are killers), and
Prevost's trio with Tom Chant and bass-wonder John Edwards.

Let's not forget that these fellows have been together in one form or
another since 1965.  This their first release since 1996.  Maybe it's just
AMoreMellow AMM.

An interesting contrast is the latest Schlippenbach Trio 2CD "Swinging the
Bim."  This group has been around almost as long as AMM, and though this may
no longer be the "new thing", or as shocking as their initial recording
"Pakistani Pomade", it is every bit as strong and (there's that word again)
aggressive.  And swinging it is.  There's not a dull moment among the over
100 minutes.  Though Alex von's name appears above the credits, this is very
much a three leader group.  Evan Parker certainly is the soprano and tenor
monster of his time, and Paul Lovens is the equal of any percussionist.
Luckily their slim output over the first twenty years or so has been greatly
increased with not only this one, but a couple more FMPs, an Atavistic
release of an amazing 1975 performance, and a Leo which combines Parker's
involvement with Alex von and his own Parker-Guy-Lytton dynamic trio.  A
feast for EP and AvS fans of all races, creeds, and colors!!!  Let's hope
that AMM bounces off the ropes on their next one.  According to Prevost,
Matchless has lots of stuff in the can, so wouldn't we love another
"Laminal"- type box set?

Anyone have any thoughts on MIMEO?  Haven't heard their 2CD on Grob, would
like an opinion.

Alan E Kayser



_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 20:13:32 +0200
From: "Remco Takken" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: RE:groundbreaking

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does bum me out a little, though, is when an artist progresses within =
their own work, only to revert back to an earlier, ultimately more =
restrictive or conservative style. Sonny Rollins, for example. I heard =
some of more recent stuff on a jazz radio show about a year ago, and it =
just sounded stale. I listened to "East Broadway Rundown" a coupla weeks =
ago, and THAT still sounds killer.=20

things from different people. When I listen to a Bill Evans record, all =
I expect is first-rate contempo-piano jazz, and I've never been =
disappointed

I have that same feeling on Bill Evans. Sonny Rollins can imho be =
listened to in the same vein as you do Bill Evans; furthermore, his =
recent RECORDED output might be a problem (although I *love* Sweet =
Leilani on  'This is what I do), his live work is still powerful and =
strong. And he's still performing live.
Remco Takken=20

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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.3105.105" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>does bum me out a little, though, =
is when an=20
artist progresses within their own work, only to revert back to an =
earlier,=20
ultimately more restrictive or conservative style. Sonny Rollins, for =
example. I=20
heard some of more recent stuff on a jazz radio show about a year ago, =
and it=20
just sounded stale. I listened to "East Broadway Rundown" a coupla weeks =
ago,=20
and THAT still sounds killer. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>things from different people. When I =
listen to a=20
Bill Evans record, all I expect is first-rate contempo-piano jazz, and =
I've=20
never been disappointed</FONT></DIV>
<DIV> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>I have that same feeling on Bill Evans. Sonny =
Rollins can imho=20
be listened to in the same vein as you do Bill Evans; furthermore, his =
recent=20
RECORDED output might be a problem (although I *love* Sweet Leilani =

on  'This is what I do), his live work is still powerful and=20
strong. And he's still performing live.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT size=3D2>Remco Takken </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:09:24 -0400
From: jason tors <[e-mail]>
Subject: the shape of [?] to come...

Six months ago alasnoaxis kicked off their tour at tonic then off to
europe [as usual]. I was less than impressed with the performance at
tonic in the spring, but glad to see the guys playing and to hear the
songs off the album in a live context. The experience was missing
something for me, that push at the boundary of the song structure or
maybe it was just the first gig before setting off on the european
tour. Part of me wanted to apply for that open position with the
group as roadie advertised that night at tonic.

Now after last nights performance my whole idea of this band and
their objective is totally changed. They took their songs as mere
jumping off points into further explorations of intense sound and
crawling melodic passages. The new material has a very focused style
and approach where there was ust a hint of in the first album. A lot
more use of electronics, all very well applied, tho I feel that chris
speed needs to work in this area in relation to the rest of the group.

If yeah no was a funk group, alasnoaxis would be a rock group.

The thing that really impressed me the most about jim's approach to
this group as a band leader is that he shocks himself, skuli and
chris out of their comfort zone and really pushes a new sound from
their combination. Skuli was sporting a new bass [from what I have
seen] that gives him a great new sound, more fretty and textured.
Needless to say, hilmar amazes me with his stylistic dexterity and
control of the guitar.

If they needed roadie after the second set last night, I would have
gone in a second.

_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:15:06 -0400
From: James Hale <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: writing about music is like...

The Paul Bley bio "Stopping Time" (which is co-written by former Coda
editor David Lee) has some interesting stories, but it takes the same
minimalist approach that Bley applies to a lot of his music. If I
remember correctly, his breakup with Annette Peacock occupies about one
paragraph. There are some interesting insights into how he approaches
music, though Bley is notorious for refusing to discuss his music.

I notice that David Lee has an ad in the current issue of Coda informing
anyone interested in the book that it can be ordered directly from him.
That may indicate that the publisher (which was a small one based in
Quebec) has either gone under or deleted the book from its catalogue.

James Hale

[e-mail] wrote:

> anybody read and have any comment on:
>
> 1. Dead Man Blues (Jelly Roll Morton biography)
> 2. Paul Bley (auto?) biography
> 3. Bossa Nova (focus on Joao Gilberto, I believe)
>
> ?
>
> NP. the office clack of keyboards
> NR. House Resolution 2475
>
> -


- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:26:05 -0400
From: [e-mail] (Benjamin Pequet)
Subject: Re: Fwd: Zorn & ?Zionism?

At 19:57 22/08/01 +0200, [e-mail] wrote:
> >All of this without a mention of the crimes being done in the name of
> >Judaism as we speak.
>
>Are you serious? (I don't know if I have permission to breath here), but I

I know this is irrelevant to some, but I prefer to know that the music I
listen to is not coming from a political idiot.



- -

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:00:44 -0500
From: "Robert A. Pleshar" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Cultural vs. regular Zionism

At 10:50 AM 8/22/01 +0000, Millie Gorgon wrote:
>Gypsy music is not a 'reimagining' of culture.  'Traditional' forms are
most often best mastered by traditional players.  Zorn's own Radical Jewish
CUlture music is often about the Jewish experience, but usually has almost
nothing (overtly) to do with traditional Jewish music.  Despite this, the
players are exclusively Jewish, just about (correct me if I'm wrong about
this, are there other non-Jews besides Anthony Coleman on those CDs?).  All
of this without a mention of the crimes being done in the name of Judaism
as we speak.

There are certainly non-Jews appearing on these CDs. I think Anthony
Coleman is Jewish though. I don't know for sure, but I'm betting that Arto
Lindsay, Mike Patton, the Melvins and Andrew D'Angelo for instance are not
likely Jews. Even if only Jews appeared on these discs I don't think it
would be necessarily bad. I think that part of the idea is that Radical
Jewish Culture includes many different outlooks and is supposed to point
out that Jewish Culture is not a monolithic thing, but that there is a
great deal of possibility in exploring the various aspects of past and
present Jewish cultures and mixing them with other ideas and influences.
Burt Bacharach and Serge Gainsbourg made "jewish" music that doesn't sound
"jewish" because they are/were Jews. I suppose a bunch of non-Jews could be
a part of the series if they did an album of radical reinterpretations of
say, cantorial chants or klezmer or even Steve Lacy tunes.

I don't think that expressing ones self in terms of a sort of Jewish
culture necessitates taking an overt political stance reagrding Israel in
one's music. We simply do not know the true feelings of perhaps ANY of the
people on these discs regarding current Middle East politics. For all we
know, their stances could range from one extreme to the other.

>Besides, how can someone be the vanguard of a downtown/international
Radical music scene and also claim to be 'non-political.'  A non-political,
RADICAL Jewish outlook is absurd.  What does it mean?

It means (to me anyway) finding a new way of looking at Jewishness that has
nothing to do with politics or even religion. Being Jewish has a lot of
cultural baggage, I see this as a way of trying to throw off that which you
don't like/want/believe. It's a way of making Jewish culture that is
specifically not tied to the old guard religious and political
institutions. It's like punk rock. It's how you choose to signify yourself
as opposed to being expected to be a certain way because you're Jewish.


>How is Ahad Ha-am's "cultural Zionism" different from what we find in
Israel's government today?  I'm not challenging this, I'd just like to know.

I see cultural Zionism as a banding together of Jewish thoughts, ideas,
culture, art, music with no overt political leaning or geographical
boundaries. It has only as much to do with Israel as Jews in Israel want to
have to do with it. "Real" Zionism on the other hand, is exclusively the
movement to have Jews living in Israel. I think there is a vast difference.

>None of this makes Zorn's music any less terror-ific, but it does make me
question the ways the guy runs a business....

Why exaclty? The man runs the business (in most instances) like a mensch.
Money from previous releases goes right back into making more and it is run
as a non-profit as I understand it.

I see nothing in his approach to the RJC series that is really too
different from, say, the AACM being a new way to think about "black" music
and culture or the dutch governemnt subsidising dutch artists and musicians.

Anyone want to join me in a Radical
Bohemian/Italian/Jewish/Quebecois-American Mongrel Culture Series?

Rob


- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #539
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