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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #538
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Wednesday, August 22 2001 Volume 03 : Number 538
In this issue:
-
Re: summer reading
summer reading
convert
RE: Zorn's next major project
Re: convert
Re: important? groundbreaking? huh?
Re: important? groundbreaking? huh?
groundbreaking: the inverse
Re: groundbreaking: the inverse
Michael Moore resend
Re: Michael Moore resend
the new yorker
Re: Mahfouz and summer reading
Re: Mahfouz and summer reading
RE:groundbreaking
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:06:16 -0400
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>
Subject: Re: summer reading
I love the annual summer reading thread. For some reason I've gotten into
potboilers this year, so a couple of quick crime reads that I really
enjoyed are Michael Connelly's Void Moon, about a casino robbery that goes
awry, with a plot that left me guessing until the very end; Thomas Perry's
Blood Money, about a couple of people on the run from the mob, a bit slow
near the beginning but very exciting last half; and David Ignatius' Agents
of Innocence, a spy novel set in the Middle East and showing all the
complexities of the region.
A bit more complex, and sometimes a bit gory for my tastes, were Maurice G.
Dantec's Racines du mal and Pavel Kohout's Widow Killer. Dantec writes
long, complex novels with both SF and crime elements, and a sophisticated
artificial intelligence that lives in a laptop plays a critical role in
this novel. According to Amazon, his most recent novel Babylon Babies will
be available last month, but it's an offbeat publisher, so who knows.
Kohout is a Czech writer, and Widow Killer is set in the final days of
WWII, very dark, without the happy ending that comes with most novels in
the genre.
In a more serious vein, I finally got around to Philip Gourevitch's history
of the genocide in central Africa, We wish to inform you that tomorrow we
will be killed with our families. The first half of the book covers the
genocide itself, and the last half deals with the aftermath. Although I
wasn't looking for confirmation here on the sheer stupidity of western news
media. there was certainly plenty of that to go around. This was a very
sympathetic and nuanced view of a recent complex situation, much better
than I expected.
Eric Schlosser's Fast Food Nation was a very interesting analysis of how
America eats. His conclusions were a bit facile, but the factual material
was sufficiently persuasive.
Much of my reading this summer has been about music. Feldman's collection
of essays, Give My Regards to Eighth Street, was hit-or-miss, but the hits,
such as the essay Crippled Symmetry, where Feldman explains how his
interest in Turkish rugs manifested itself in his music, were great. Robin
Minard's book about his sound installations was pretty good, finally got
around to reading Duckworth, etc.
- --
Caleb Deupree
cdeupree@erinet.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 07:51:03 EDT
From: Samerivertwice@aol.com
Subject: summer reading
"Wonder Boys" Michael Chabon
"How To Be Good" Nick Hornby
"Give My Regards to Eighth Street" Morton Feldman
"God and the New Physics" Paul Davies
"Creating Minds" Howard Gardner
"Palm Sunday" Kurt Vonnegut
"Cat's cradle" Kurt Vonnegut
Bought but haven't read yet:
"Heartbreaking Work of Staggering Genius" Dave Eggers
"Girl With The Curious Haircut" David Foster Wallace
"Infinite Jest" DFW
"The Bear Comes Home" Rafi Zabor
Tom
NP: NPR
NR: The New Yorker Music Issue
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:00:17 +0200
From: "dekater" <dekater@worldonline.nl>
Subject: convert
James Miller wrote:
<I wonder if anyone on this list has ever successfully 'converted' anyone to
Zorn's music, and/or to free improv,>
Quite some people reacted well by hearing Zorn or free music from my
collection and started listening to/buying it, or went to concerts. So, it's
ok. A lot of people don't like it, so what?
Jan Luyben
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:50:17 +0200
From: "dekater" <dekater@worldonline.nl>
Subject: RE: Zorn's next major project
>>>I thought a fundamental tenet of postmodernism was the
acknowledgement that
there are no new ideas.<<<
Including postmodernism?
Jan Luyben
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:19:59 EDT
From: Samerivertwice@aol.com
Subject: Re: convert
In a message dated 8/22/01 9:09:06 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
dekater@worldonline.nl writes:
> Quite some people reacted well by hearing Zorn or free music from my
> collection and started listening to/buying it, or went to concerts. So,
it's
> ok. A lot of people don't like it, so what?
>
> Jan Luyben
The Masada, Naked City and Filmworks music has impressed many of my friends
who don't normally listen to jazz or hardcore or anything beyond basic
pop/blues/rock. So yeah, there have been a few converts. "Big Gundown" went
over pretty well, too. There has been no luck with the game pieces.
Tom
______________________________________________________________________
Phil Spector: "I've been listening to a lot of Andrew Lloyd Webber lately,
and enjoying it. Someday I hope to set his stuff to music."
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:25:00 -0400
From: Mark Saleski <marks@foliage.com>
Subject: Re: important? groundbreaking? huh?
>
>Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:46:20 -0700
>From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
>Subject: Re: important? groundbreaking? huh?
>
> My vote goes to Clark Terry, with Tommy a very close second. Barry
Harris
> still kills me, too.
>
> Steve Smith
> ssmith36@sprynet.com
>
gees, i hate to admit this but once back in college (Univerity of Maine)
a guy from my dorm tried to convince me to go to this show/clinic put on
by the music department. it was with Clark Terry.....
i didn't want to go...never heard of him....probably went back to my
room to listen to my Cheap Trick record.....
- --
Mark Saleski - marks@foliage.com
"Is it so wrong, wanting to be at home with your record collection?" -
Nick Hornby
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:02:10 -0700
From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: important? groundbreaking? huh?
> Do you seriously think Masada are unappreciated?
> My impression is that some people are just getting sort of tired of the amount
> of Masada releases.
I can;t help but get the sense that this group is too "straight" for a lot
of people who identify themselves as Zorn fans.
sh
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 08:25:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Scott Handley <thesubtlebody@yahoo.com>
Subject: groundbreaking: the inverse
- --0-1700966795-998493943=:69565
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Disposition: inline
With all this talk of jazz pianists, Zorn, and
Stravinsky, I was thinking about composers/artists
whose breakthroughs, or more specifically, whose most
radical work, came _later_ in their careers...maybe
even not until the end. I remember reading a Kyle
Gann article dealing with this, perhaps about Morton
Feldman, can't remember. Can anyone think of examples
of this? I mean, John Wall is doing more and more
interesting things, and apparently he didn't even pick
up a sampler until mid-life. Wasn't some of Luigi
Nono's most unique material done the last ten years of
life, when he (CMIIW) really broke from serialism and
started doing an intense and more apolitical quiet
music? I'm kicking around a few names that might
stand out as exceptions to the prodigious young
talent.
- -----s
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Make international calls for as low as $.04/minute with Yahoo! Messenger
http://phonecard.yahoo.com/
- --0-1700966795-998493943=:69565--
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:38:20 EDT
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: Re: groundbreaking: the inverse
In a message dated 8/22/01 11:30:22 AM, thesubtlebody@yahoo.com writes:
<< I was thinking about composers/artists
whose breakthroughs, or more specifically, whose most
radical work, came _later_ in their careers...maybe
even not until the end. >>
two current examples are Bill Dixon and Keith Rowe. both of these guys are
creating the best, most radical work of their careers right now.
Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:54:00 EDT
From: Fastian@aol.com
Subject: Michael Moore resend
Since Mike or "Rizzi" said everything that was sent between the 16th and
20th was lost, let's try this again. I'm using the old version of aol so
hopefully nobody will be annoyed. Cheers a second time.
John
> Michael Moore's "Jewels & Binoculars: The Music of Bob Dylan".
James,
Tell us some more about this new Moore. Is it Clusone 3. Is Bennink
playing?
greetings,
Rob @ risk >>
"Jewels and Binoculars" is one of Moore's better ones and of course
that's really saying something. It has Lindsey Horner-bass and Michael
Vatcher-percussion. Vatcher is perfect here for the eccentric sounds he
makes. Not being that familiar with Dylan, the only piece familiar (to me)
is Highway 61 revisited. Most of the cd is very beautiful ballad like
compositions with Moore at his lyrical best.
"White Widow" is the other of Moore's recent releases on Ramboy. It has
Bennink,Mark Helias(b), and Alex Maguire(p) on it. Parts of this has a
Clusone feel to it, maybe due to the spriteliness of some of it. This has
more open parts than the other cd and more chance for solos. Maguire is as
excellent as ever. I would say these cds would make any Moore fan very happy.
Great to see the list going again. Trying to gather my strength back
after 2 successive nights of David S. Ware's 4tet followed by 8 Bold Souls
the next.
Cheers,
John Threadgould
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:05:07 -0400
From: James Hale <jhale@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Michael Moore resend
The players are Moore, Lindsey Horner and Michael Vatcher.
They cover a pretty broad range of Dylan songs, from "Percy's Song" (a
Dylan concert staple from the early days in NYC) to "Dark Eyes" but the
concentration is on stuff from the early to mid-'60s ("I Pity The Poor
Immigrant", "Fourth Time Around", "Visions of Johanna", "Highway 61
Revisited" -- a killer version -- "With God on our Side", "Boots of
Spanish Leather") 11 tracks in all.
It's a really superb recording. A review is forthcoming in Coda magazine... soon
as I write it.
The catalogue number is Ramboy #15.
Fastian@aol.com wrote:
> Since Mike or "Rizzi" said everything that was sent between the 16th and
> 20th was lost, let's try this again. I'm using the old version of aol so
> hopefully nobody will be annoyed. Cheers a second time.
> John
>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 09:39:49 -0700
From: mwisckol@ocregister.com
Subject: the new yorker
... strongly recommended is the story ostensibly on the steinway piano
saleswoman, a touching tale about life, music and the power of a machine.
martin
p.s. i should have written: speaking of birdcalls, why has zorn LATELY
neglected this groundbreaking instrument. ... and yes, i haven't been
listening to zorn much lately either. but little can match hearing for the
first time "shuffle boil" on that monk tribute LP, then tracking down "the
big gundown" and then the next few -- spillane, spy v. spy, coming across
voodoo and news for lulu in the used record store (is george lewis
incredible or what?).... i've followed since, but with diminishing
returns....
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:53:02 -0400
From: "Joslyn Layne" <joslay@allmusic.com>
Subject: Re: Mahfouz and summer reading
My favorite Mahfouz is still the first one i read:
Children of Gebelaawi
which retells some of the more famous bible stories in the same setting as
his other books (Egyptian alleys). can't say for sure if i'd like it best if
i'd read another 1st, but it's a good one.
Coincidentally, i also just read Murakami (Hard Boiled Wonderland) for the
first time. ann arbor has a good public library & i picked it at random off
the shelves.. really odd, fun, & imaginative.
My favorite recently-read book:
Thomas King, Green Grass Running Water
the 2nd book by modern Canadian fiction author, recommended to me by Guelph
festival lynchpin Ajay Heble, who teaches Canadian fiction. I found this
book to be funny, and really well-written. i was holding it up shaking it
like a bible at some friends not too long ago at a local bar.
If you like that dry, biting, wicked kind of humor, Stephen Fry's "The
Hippopotamus" was hysterical -- although be forewarned, there's one small
bestiality scene, so maybe don't buy it for your niece's birthday...
Joslyn
NR: Quentin Crisp, How to Have a Life-Style
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 13:21:42 -0400
From: James Hale <jhale@sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Mahfouz and summer reading
Joslyn Layne wrote:
> My favorite recently-read book:
> Thomas King, Green Grass Running Water
> the 2nd book by modern Canadian fiction author, recommended to me by Guelph
> festival lynchpin Ajay Heble, who teaches Canadian fiction.
It's worth noting that Mr. King is also the (un)official photographer for the
Guelph Jazz Fest and does some beautiful work in that field, too.
Tom is also the (semi)fictional host of a hilarious radio parody called The
Dead Dog Cafe Comedy Hour, which pokes outrageous fun at relations between
whites and natives. I believe it also runs on some NPR stations and is widely
available on CD.
James Hale
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:00:35 -0400
From: "josephneff" <jneff@visuallink.com>
Subject: RE:groundbreaking
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
- ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C12B12.D0FC0EB0
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,
....John Coltrane continued to break new ground up to the end of =
his life. That life was cut short, so maybe it doesn't apply to the =
question of late-career innovation in the manner the asker intended, =
but...."Interstellar Space" is easily one of Coltrane's most important =
works, and at the point of its recording, sax/drum duos were not at all =
common (how many pre-date "Inter. Space"?), and the music is so intense =
that it was neglected for years. Think about how in the mid 60,s, the =
jazz community at large still had a problem accepting piano-less groups. =
Often I wonder just how much more innovation Coltrane would have been =
capable of had he lived. When you (or I anyway) think of what he did in =
just seven years (60-67), it's more than a bit mind boggling.=20
....I do agree, however, that breaking ground is no qualifier =
in my appreciation of an artist's or band's work. How many great 50's =
post-bop sessions sound just smokin, but didn't break a bit of new =
ground? Quite a few, I'd say. The majority of the rock and blues records =
in my collection don't break a bit of ground, they just sound great. =
What does bum me out a little, though, is when an artist progresses =
within their own work, only to revert back to an earlier, ultimately =
more restrictive or conservative style. Sonny Rollins, for example. I =
heard some of more recent stuff on a jazz radio show about a year ago, =
and it just sounded stale. I listened to "East Broadway Rundown" a =
coupla weeks ago, and THAT still sounds killer. Shepp did some stuff in =
the 80's that didn't connect with me at all (though Steve Smith's =
weighty live report from a while ago gave me hope for the guy yet). I'm =
not at all demanding that every artist innovate, but it can get =
seriously depressing watching artists backslide. Relating this to free =
jazz, I'd say that Cecil Taylor is the only big name from the original =
American musicians still living that hasn't backslid (names like Dixon =
and Bley don't register as big to me, because you can read chapter =
entries in jazz books on free that don't mention either, though both =
were involved in key events in the music's history). Now, I know =
opinions will differ about whether or not Taylor still innovates, but I =
would never say he backslid. But I guess you can say I expect different =
things from different people. When I listen to a Bill Evans record, all =
I expect is first-rate contempo-piano jazz, and I've never been =
disappointed. I know I'd be a little confused and bothered if tomorrow =
Cecil released a record where he sounded just like Art Tatum or Monk or =
Cecil in 59.=20
....if Coltrane would have lived, would he have backslid?
I remain....
Joseph
NP: AMM "AMMMusic 1966" CD
NR: Harold Brodkey "First Love and Other Sorrows" =20
- ------=_NextPart_000_0045_01C12B12.D0FC0EB0
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charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2920.0" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2> ....John=20
Coltrane continued to break new ground up to the end of his life. That =
life was=20
cut short, so maybe it doesn't apply to the question of late-career =
innovation=20
in the manner the asker intended, but...."Interstellar Space" is easily =
one of=20
Coltrane's most important works, and at the point of its recording, =
sax/drum duos were not at all common (how many pre-date "Inter. =
Space"?), and=20
the music is so intense that it was neglected for years. Think about how =
in the=20
mid 60,s, the jazz community at large still had a problem accepting =
piano-less groups. Often I wonder just how much more innovation Coltrane =
would=20
have been capable of had he lived. When you (or I anyway) think of =
what he=20
did in just seven years (60-67), it's more than a bit mind=20
boggling. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2> =20
....I do agree, however, that breaking ground is no qualifier in my =
appreciation=20
of an artist's or band's work. How many great 50's post-bop =
sessions sound=20
just smokin, but didn't break a bit of new ground? Quite a few, I'd say. =
The=20
majority of the rock and blues records in my collection don't break a =
bit of=20
ground, they just sound great. What does bum me out a little, =
though, is=20
when an artist progresses within their own work, only to revert back to =
an=20
earlier, ultimately more restrictive or conservative style. Sonny =
Rollins, for=20
example. I heard some of more recent stuff on a jazz radio show about a =
year=20
ago, and it just sounded stale. I listened to "East Broadway Rundown" a =
coupla=20
weeks ago, and THAT still sounds killer. Shepp did some stuff in the =
80's that=20
didn't connect with me at all (though Steve Smith's weighty live report =
from a=20
while ago gave me hope for the guy yet). I'm not at all demanding=20
that every artist innovate, but it can get seriously depressing =
watching=20
artists backslide. Relating this to free jazz, I'd say that Cecil Taylor =
is the=20
only big name from the original American musicians still living that =
hasn't=20
backslid (names like Dixon and Bley don't register as big to me, because =
you can=20
read chapter entries in jazz books on free that don't mention either, =
though=20
both were involved in key events in the music's history). Now, I know =
opinions=20
will differ about whether or not Taylor still innovates, but I would =
never say=20
he backslid. But I guess you can say I expect different things from =
different=20
people. When I listen to a Bill Evans record, all I expect is first-rate =
contempo-piano jazz, and I've never been disappointed. I know I'd be a =
little=20
confused and bothered if tomorrow Cecil released a record where he =
sounded just=20
like Art Tatum or Monk or Cecil in 59. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2> =
....if=20
Coltrane would have lived, would he have backslid?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I remain....</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Joseph</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>NP: AMM "AMMMusic 1966" CD</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>NR: Harold Brodkey "First Love and =
Other=20
Sorrows" </FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>
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- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #538
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