>According to what Zorn answered to that question to a
>Spanish magazine, he is not interested in politics at
>all. Musically, he just intended to "find new paths in
>Jewish music" with his Masada project, but as you well
>point out, the fact that he has gathered a large
>number of Jewish musicians around him and devoted a
>complete series through Tzadik to them makes the whole
>thing a bit suspicious.
Why "suspicious"? The guy=B4s Jewish, and in an era when people of all creed=
s
and ethnic origins (especially Americans) are rediscovering and, more
interestingly, _reimagining_ their cultures, Zorn is doing the same thing
with his. And he also clearly stated on the Masada series of CDs that his
inspiration was in part taken from the early-20th century Jewish thinker
Ahad Ha-am, whose "cultural Zionism" was at odds with the political variant
from day one. Why the conspiracy tone? Are labels producing (say) Gypsy or
Balkan music "suspicious"?
>IMHO he has taken the "protectionist" role with the
>Jewish musicians, an attitude that I really think can
>become narrow-minded and maybe even exclusivist as the
>past has shown repeatedly.
Which/whose "past"? Parochialism is always a danger looming round the
corner, but do you really think that musicians like Marc Ribot or Anthony
Coleman or the other (Jewish and non-Jewish - so much for "exclusivist")
players on the Radical Jewish Music series need his "protection" to make
it? And the re-releasing of gems like Davka=B4s _Lavy=B4s Dream_ and the
upcoming Wolf Krakowski album just make good aesthetic and archival sense.
Stephen Fruitman
Dept of Historical Studies
Ume=E5 University
SE-901 87 Ume=E5 Sweden
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:41:36 +0200
From: patRice <iqhouse@yahoo.de>
Subject: Re: important? groundbreaking? huh?
Skip Heller wrote:
> As for the debate about how much Masada we need, I think it's because
> everyone is always looking to Zorn's "next concept" that the band is largely
> unappreciated. They're a fine band whose records are generally more
> entertaining than so much of what we get to hear. I think because Zorn's
> name "means something", he's not allowed to break out of his job description
> and mine a certain territory over a period of years.
Do you seriously think Masada are unappreciated?
My impression is that some people are just getting sort of tired of the amount
of Masada releases.
And maybe, like myself, at the same time also a little pissed off that we never
got any Naked City live stuff...
patRice
np: Renaud, Best Of
nr: Don Ed Hardy, The Main Stream Of Underground
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:46:55 +0200
From: patRice <iqhouse@yahoo.de>
Subject: Re: Next Zorn Project?
"Miller, James Andrew (UMC-Student)" wrote:
> I wonder if anyone on this list has ever successfully 'converted' anyone to
> Zorn's music, and/or to free improv,
> etc? I've been trying for YEARS... maybe I'm just not very effective, maybe
Hi.
You did put "converted" under inverted commas, but still: I think that the
basic attitude of trying to "convert" someone to a particular style of music
(or philosophy or religion or whatever) will hardly ever work.
I mean: why would anyone want to "convert" someone to one's own musical taste?
What if every single person in the world was only into Zorn and free improv,
and that would be all you'd hear everywhere, day in, day out - clubs,
restaurants, bars, etc.???
And how would you react if someone tried to convert you to Britney Spears or
The Backstreet Boys?
patRice
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:19:44 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl>
Subject: Odp: important? groundbreaking? huh?
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Smith <ssmith36@sprynet.com>
> Don't know that I'd ever call Tommy Flanagan a progressive force, or
> particularly groundbreaking for that matter. But I do know that on
a good
> night, he's the greatest living mainstream jazz pianist on the
planet - and
> he has lots of good nights.
I saw him with a trio many years ago, and that concert was one of the
bests i've been to; the man himself also felt that way. It was at a
large hall during jazz jamboree fest in Warsaw, the house was full,
and he got a serious stnading ovation .
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 10:58:45 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl>
Subject: Odp: Zorn's next major Project
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Patrice L. Roussel <proussel@ichips.intel.com>
> Why not, but Zorn came to recognition for significant groundbreaking
music.
> You can't avoid that people who have been following him since almost
the
> beginning whine for not finding anymore what attracted them in the
first
> place.
In fact this '90s zorn music makes me think of (what else could you
expecty from me?;-))stravinsky's neoclassical period. He also refused
to follow his radical music of early period , and also was accused of
doing nothin special. Zorn does something similiar: he works on some
'classical' sounds of music - jazz quartet, surf stuff, avant garde
compositions - and brings his own approach to them. Maybe we should
wait: only the last neoclassical pieces (rake's progress, orpheus)
made me intersted in that neoclassicism, but after i realised what the
klanguarge of that music is, i came to like all of them. Maybe we
should wait a little bit, and try to listen carefully what JZ .
It seems a little buit strange to me that 'avant -garde', who are
supposed to be open minded etc., have very precise expectations as to
what music should be like.
That being said on zorn's defense, I agree that i like his '80s stuff
more then what he does now - Godard was a masterpiece.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:02:36 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl>
Subject: Odp: Odp: Zorn's next major project
- ----- Original Message -----
From: <Dgasque@aol.com>
> Is it just my problem, or is that disc , as many others from the
early
> '80s, very poorly recorded? The sound is flat. >>
>
> Yeah, pretty much so on that album, but nothing that a remastering
job
> couldn't fix, I'd guess. Are you referring to just those releases
on Soul
> Note/Black Saint?
Yes. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that the original analogue
sounded OK.
Marcin Gokieli
marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem
you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 11:11:06 +0200
From: "Marcin Gokieli" <marcingokieli@go2.pl>
Subject: Odp: important? groundbreaking? huh?
- ----- Original Message -----
From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
> I always love these threads because I notice words like "important",
> "innovative" etc being corralled in, as if to say something to the
effect of
> "Unless the music can be characterized as somehow apocolyptic, it's
lesser
> music."
Extremly well said.
> As for the debate about how much Masada we need, I think it's
because
> everyone is always looking to Zorn's "next concept" that the band is
largely
> unappreciated. They're a fine band whose records are generally more
> entertaining than so much of what we get to hear.
I agree. Although i do not think i'd be buying much more masada discs
(i've got three studio on two live albums), i'd be ready to travel far
to hear them live.
> I think because Zorn's
> name "means something", he's not allowed to break out of his job
description
> and mine a certain territory over a period of years.
I wrote in a previous post about some very strict expectations from
'avant-garde' community. This seems to be a special case of that
problem.
Marcin Gokieli
marcin.gokieli@mospan.pl marcingokieli@go2.pl
Generally speaking, if a philosopher offers to 'dissolve' the problem
you are working on, tell him to go climb a tree - Jerry Fodor
- -
------------------------------
Date: 22 Aug 2001 10:50:43 -0000
From: "Millie Gorgon" <snacky@disinfo.net>
Subject: Re: Fwd: Zorn & ?Zionism?
>Why "suspicious"? The guy┤s Jewish, and in an era when people of all creeds
>and ethnic origins (especially Americans) are rediscovering and, more
>interestingly, _reimagining_ their cultures, Zorn is doing the same thing
>with his. And he also clearly stated on the Masada series of CDs that his
>inspiration was in part taken from the early-20th century Jewish thinker
>Ahad Ha-am, whose "cultural Zionism" was at odds with the political variant
>from day one. Why the conspiracy tone? Are labels producing (say) Gypsy or
>Balkan music "suspicious"?
Gypsy music is not a 'reimagining' of culture. 'Traditional' forms are most often best mastered by traditional players. Zorn's own Radical Jewish CUlture music is often about the Jewish experience, but usually has almost nothing (overtly) to do with traditional Jewish music. Despite this, the players are exclusively Jewish, just about (correct me if I'm wrong about this, are there other non-Jews besides Anthony Coleman on those CDs?). All of this without a mention of the crimes being done in the name of Judaism as we speak.
Besides, how can someone be the vanguard of a downtown/international Radical music scene and also claim to be 'non-political.' A non-political, RADICAL Jewish outlook is absurd. What does it mean?
Here is quote from Elliott SHarp:
"...and the only reason I would do a record on the Radical Jewish series (which is the one I did with Ronny Someck) was because he is a non Zionist, he is an Iraqi born Jew. An Israeli, but his attitude about it is outside, you know"
from http://www.algonet.se/~repple/esharp/slovene1.htm (about a fifth of the way down the page).
How is Ahad Ha-am's "cultural Zionism" different from what we find in Israel's government today? I'm not challenging this, I'd just like to know.
None of this makes Zorn's music any less terror-ific, but it does make me question the ways the guy runs a business....
mg
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #537
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