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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #536 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Tuesday, August 21 2001 Volume 03 : Number 536 In this issue: - Re: mainstream jazz piano; Zorn in the 90's, etc. Re: important? groundbreaking? huh? a copy of last month's wire... Re: Next Zorn Project? frisbee and porkpie hat Re: Next Zorn Project? Re: Next Zorn Project? Re: frisbee and porkpie hat Re: AMM, was: Next Zorn Project? Mahfouz and summer reading Re: mainstream jazz piano; Zorn in the 90's, etc. RE: mainstream jazz piano; Zorn in the 90's, etc. Re: Mahfouz and summer reading Great American Composers cont. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:41:38 -0700 From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: mainstream jazz piano; Zorn in the 90's, etc. > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. - --MS_Mac_OE_3081339698_517700_MIME_Part Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit To be honest, I'd always been baffled whenever people sang the praises of Tommy Flanagan. He always sounded like he never really had anything interesting to say, musically, and I even think his pianistic ability could be called into question from time to time. He, Barry Harris, other similar guys, they just seem to be rehashing Bud Powell, sprinkling in some token Monk 'quirkiness,' and then stopping there before ever getting to any sort of original idea. Frankly, I'd be hard-pressed to say that any piano players have a better combination of technique, ideas, and innate musical sense than Herbie Hancock or Keith Jarrett. Despite the forays by either of them outside mainstream jazz, no one even comes close to them, as far as I'm concerned, when they choose to play it. Dear Matt -- As for the first count -- I get the sense that you object to the style in the question, so maybe your opinion comes from the notion that the style in question is something for which you have no great love. I've personally never heard you play, so I am by no means saying you're ignorant or anything. I just get the sense that you dislike mainstream jazz piano or 98% of what is called that. You're antagonistic remarks re Uri indicated that much to me. For the record, I've rarely if ever heard a pianist I thought had more on the ball with every aspect of both the instrument and playing jazz on it than Hank Jones, who is far from a Bud Powell Machine. As to the second paragraph -- not Bill Evans or Denny Zeitlin? Now you're telling me something about yourself. skip h np: Willis Jackson, BAR WARS - --MS_Mac_OE_3081339698_517700_MIME_Part Content-type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable <HTML> <HEAD> <TITLE>Re: mainstream jazz piano; Zorn in the 90's, etc.</TITLE> </HEAD> <BODY> <BLOCKQUOTE>To be honest, I'd always been baffled whenever people sang the = praises of Tommy Flanagan. He always sounded like he never really had = anything interesting to say, musically, and I even think his pianistic abili= ty could be called into question from time to time. He, Barry Harris, = other similar guys, they just seem to be rehashing Bud Powell, sprinkling in= some token Monk 'quirkiness,' and then stopping there before ever getting t= o any sort of original idea. Frankly, I'd be hard-pressed to say that any piano players have a better co= mbination of technique, ideas, and innate musical sense than Herbie Hancock = or Keith Jarrett. Despite the forays by either of them outside mainstr= eam jazz, no one even comes close to them, as far as I'm concerned, when the= y choose to play it. Dear Matt -- As for the first count -- I get the sense that you object to the style in t= he question, so maybe your opinion comes from the notion that the style in q= uestion is something for which you have no great love. I've personally= never heard you play, so I am by no means saying you're ignorant or anythin= g. I just get the sense that you dislike mainstream jazz piano or 98% = of what is called that. You're antagonistic remarks re Uri indicated t= hat much to me. For the record, I've rarely if ever heard a pianist I = thought had more on the ball with every aspect of both the instrument and pl= aying jazz on it than Hank Jones, who is far from a Bud Powell Machine. As to the second paragraph -- not Bill Evans or Denny Zeitlin? Now you're t= elling me something about yourself. skip h np: Willis Jackson, BAR WARS</BLOCKQUOTE> </BODY> </HTML> - --MS_Mac_OE_3081339698_517700_MIME_Part-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:54:50 -0400 From: James Hale <jhale@sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: important? groundbreaking? huh? Steve Smith wrote: > Groundbreaking? Nah - though to his credit, he *was* the pianist on 'Giant > Steps,' and at age 70-something, he hasn't lost much of his technique. I > love it when he plays a typically verbose and labyrinthine Thad Jones tune, > then remarks offhand how playing Thad makes him wish he got paid by the > note. By now, you can count on that quip to come up probably once per set > for the rest of his days. That reminds me of another fine pianist from that era, Gene DiNovi, who tells the story of having to play night after night as house pianist in a 52nd Street bar where Art Tatum liked to drink. "And that's when I decided to become the world's best *slow* pianist," he always says. James Hale - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:02:07 EDT From: APoesia794@aol.com Subject: a copy of last month's wire... does anyone have an extra copy of last month's wire with radiohead on the cover and the interview with john hudak? i somehow missed that one....thanks. jason - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:35:12 -0500 From: "Miller, James Andrew (UMC-Student)" <jam189@mizzou.edu> Subject: Re: Next Zorn Project? So I'm reading all these interesting posts about Zorn's next project, etc etc. And I get the feeling that a lot of us are bored, or GETTING bored with Zorn's work? I know I've thought in these terms a few times over the last year or so-- I guess it began when I realized I was buying new Zorn CDs automatically, playing them once, then filing them away in the Z section. I haven't actively listened to his work in many months. I wonder if anyone on this list has ever successfully 'converted' anyone to Zorn's music, and/or to free improv, etc? I've been trying for YEARS... maybe I'm just not very effective, maybe I'm living in a particularly unreceptive place (midwest college town). But I have to wonder. Without fail, my Zorn mixtapes are evaluated as dilettantish, cartoony, emotionally cold, whatever. No one has ever asked for more. I trade CDs regularly with several people here at school, and invariably I always include something 'outside' in my selection (for example, say a Parker/Guy/Lytton disc in there with the folk/country and indie punk). I convinced several people to see Joe McPhee when he came though here a few months ago-- they literally left after less than 15 mins. When I spend several years hanging out with very intelligent people who have devoted much of their lives to the pursuit of the aesthetic, and absolutely none of them can hear anything musical in Derek Bailey... I guess I just want to say how much I appreciate this forum. My latest discovery, thanks to you all: AMM. I lent 'Newfoundland' to a friend, who couldn't get past the first 15 minutes. Sigh. Anyone know whether AMM/Matchless are planning to release CDs from the recent tour? Andy (in Missouri) - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 16:39:19 -0700 From: mwisckol@ocregister.com Subject: frisbee and porkpie hat skip wrote: >The frisbee means more to Americans than "Goodbye Porkpie Hat."< While the implicit imagery of teens playing frisbee with a Mingus LP is effective, I would beg to defend the frisbee. If I, for instance, had a choice between the two -- the beautiful times of listening to countless versions of Theme for Lester Young, past and present, and those playing frisbee, including with my grandfather (he was a lawrence welk fan although i don't know if he ever dug Johnny Hodges w/ LW's Orchestra (Ranwood, 1965)) in his last years and tripping on mushrooms while playing in these knolls where you couldn't see anybody else, just the frisbee floating up, and the girlfriend I threw with at the beach every summer evening after work -- I'd have to go with the frisbee. Or I would if I hadn't discovered the aerobie, which sails about three times as far. And speaking of birdcalls, why has Zorn neglected this groundbreaking instrument? Martin np. the hugo masters: an antholody of chinese classical music vol. 3, wind instruments nr. midaq alley by naguib mahfouz - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 19:43:27 EDT From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Next Zorn Project? In a message dated 8/21/01 7:35:45 PM, jam189@mizzou.edu writes: << Anyone know whether AMM/Matchless are planning to release CDs from the recent tour? >> the next AMM CD will be from their May concert at the Musique Action festival in Vand'ouevre, which was by all reports a spectacular set. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 20:25:58 -0400 From: "Jesse Kudler" <jkudler@wesleyan.edu> Subject: Re: Next Zorn Project? - ----- Original Message ----- From: "Miller, James Andrew (UMC-Student)" <jam189@mizzou.edu> > Anyone know whether AMM/Matchless are planning to release CDs from the > recent tour? > Speaking of, how's the newest CD that just came out? What's it like? - -Jesse - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 17:32:35 -0700 From: "s~Z" <keithmar@msn.com> Subject: Re: frisbee and porkpie hat >>>And speaking of birdcalls, why has Zorn neglected this groundbreaking instrument?<<< The pulse of the Zorn-list quickens upon reading this statement. - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 20:43:54 -0400 From: Brian Olewnick <olewnick@gis.net> Subject: Re: AMM, was: Next Zorn Project? Jesse Kudler wrote: > Speaking of, how's the newest CD that just came out? What's it like? Compared to AMM's prior work, I'd have to say "Tunes without Measure or End" is on the so-so side. That is, it's fine but a little bit of "more of the same" and less inspired than "Newfoundland" and other albums from the 90's. Like anyone else, AMM have their average nights, but one wonders why they chose to release this particular set. At a couple of points, Rowe sounds like he's intentionally throwing up roadblocks (in the form of "unmusical" thuds and bangs) to the overly smooth general drift. Overall, I far prefer the two other Rowe projects from this year('Grain' with Burkhard Beins and [N:Q] with Jean Chevalier, Christophe Havard and Julien Ottavi), both of which are very beautiful. And, of course, I'm drooling somewhat over Jon's upcoming duo release with Nakamura. Brian Olewnick NP: Hank Jones/Ray Brown/Jimmie Smith - Jones, Brown & Smith NR: Naguib Mafouz - Palace Walk - - ------------------------------ Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 23:20:14 -0400 From: "Steve Smith" <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: Mahfouz and summer reading >Brian Olewnick > >NR: Naguib Mafouz - Palace Walk Now there's a coincidence. I knew that Martin Wisckol was reading Mahfouz's 'Midaq Alley,' because we've shared private messages on the subject recently. Now here's Brian reading Mahfouz as well. And I just read his 'Akhenaten - Dweller in Truth' about two weeks ago. In my case and Martin's, it's largely in response to Dave Douglas's musical prod on 'Witness.' Brian, I know you were less than impressed with that music, so I assume it's a coincidence, right? Anyway, getting around to my point, those of you who have read Mahfouz, which novels do you most recommend? I grabbed 'Akhenaten' because it appeared to be the newest and because I thought that I might get a good sense of Mahfouz's style by reading his treatment of an already familiar subject (Egypt's monotheistic heretic pharoah, husband of Nerfertiti, older brother of King Tut). The novel was constructed a la 'Rashomon,' with each chapter a retelling of roughly the same events from the point of view of a different character. It was a fine light read that took all of one day. Where should I go next? Given that we all seem to be terribly bored with Zorn lately ;-) maybe it's a good time for the annual Zornlist Reading List thread. I know I always enjoy those hugely and come away enriched (I found Philip K. Dick, Haruki Murakami and Italo Calvino that way). I'll start. Here's my summer reading list, some of which will look familiar to anyone who's heard 'Witness': Haruki Murakami: Sputnik Sweetheart - I haven't read so many of his novels yet, but I'm enjoying each one tremendously (thanks, Jon). This one is the most surreal and mysterious of those I've read. Eduardo Galeano: Genesis, Faces & Masks, Century of the Wind - A remarkable trilogy depicting the history of the Americas from pre-history to 1984, crafted from first-hand accounts by a Uruguayan dissident journalist. None of the sections is more than a few paragraphs long, but taken together they accumulate serious density. Ken Saro-Wiwa: Sozaboy - Easily the most electrifying thing I've read this summer: like Candide plunked down in the middle of Catch 22 or Slaughterhouse Five, as narrated by someone who speaks in the language and cadences of Fela. Hard to find, easy to appreciate. Naguib Mahfouz: Akhenaten, Dweller in Truth - Quick, easy, poetic, memorable. Pramoedya Ananta Toer: This Earth of Mankind: The first book in Toer's Buru Quartet, detailing a Javanese boy's coming of age in Dutch colonial Java, as written from memory by a former longtime political prisoner first of the Dutch and then the Suharto regime. Arundhati Roy: The God of Small Things - Personal tragedies exacerbated by caste discrimination in India, rendered poignant and universal by Ms. Roy's perfumed writing. Alice McDermott: Charming Billy - melodramatic and touching, if not quite the brilliant achievement I'd expected from all the acclaim and awards. Yes, that's a LOT of reading. But I had one weekend trip that included a nine-hour bus ride each way in there somewhere, and besides, it's been really inspiring. And honestly, I haven't really listened to much new music lately outside of the classical stuff I spin for work and the metal I use to decompress afterward (new Meshuggah rarities disc was supposed to come out today, but I haven't found it yet). Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Six Feet Under, "One Bullet Left," 'Pure Carnage' (Metal Blade) NR - Pramoedya Ananta Toer, 'Child of All Nations' - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 03:49:05 +0000 From: "thomas chatterton" <chatterton23@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: mainstream jazz piano; Zorn in the 90's, etc. >From: "Matthew Mitchell" <matmi@earthlink.net> > >Frankly, I'd be hard-pressed to say that any piano players have a better >combination of technique, ideas, and innate musical sense than Herbie >Hancock or >Keith Jarrett. I have a very fond memory of seeing Jarrett play in the '70s, when his prima donna arrogance began getting out of hand, and he would often stop playing to berate audience members for coughing or shifting in their seats. Anyway, this particular performance was going along fine, even though many in the audience were having a difficult time holding their breath for such sustained lengths, when during a fraction of silence in Jarrett's performance, someone in the back of the theatre bellowed out: "Stop playing that neo-romantic bullshit and give us some real music!" As far as America goes, I can't even think offhand of an >American composer who's music I really like... Well, just off the top, there's John Cage, Charles Mingus, Conlon Nancarrow, Charles Ives, Harry Partch, Duke Ellington, Thelonious Monk, John Zorn, Samuel Barber, John Coltrane, George Crumb, Herbie Nichols, Morton Feldman, Steve Reich, Jimi Hendrix, Charles Ruggles, Frank Zappa, Gordon Gano, Miles Davis, Bob Dylan, Terry Riley, Lou Reed, Lamonte Young, Charles Parker, Ingram Marshall, Gordon Monahan, Robert Johnson, Lennie Tristano, Willie Dixon, James Brown, Les Baxter, etc. etc. etc. why I believe I could on for days... np: Stravinsky Rite Of Spring Kirov Orchestra Valery Gergiev _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 00:59:58 -0400 From: "Steve Smith" <ssmith36@sprynet.com> Subject: RE: mainstream jazz piano; Zorn in the 90's, etc. I guess he's gotten a little better. When I saw him in June, he told a fairly funny story about an imaginary meeting between Ken Burns and Miles Davis, complete with gravel-whispered Miles impression, and later on sternly admonished the audience against flash photography. Kind of tame, by comparison. Steve Smith ssmith36@sprynet.com NP - Dimmu Borgir, "Puritania," 'Puritanical Euphoric Misanthropia' (Nuclear Blast) - -----Original Message----- From: owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com [mailto:owner-zorn-list@lists.xmission.com]On Behalf Of thomas chatterton I have a very fond memory of seeing Jarrett play in the '70s, when his prima donna arrogance began getting out of hand, and he would often stop playing to berate audience members for coughing or shifting in their seats. Anyway, this particular performance was going along fine, even though many in the audience were having a difficult time holding their breath for such sustained lengths, when during a fraction of silence in Jarrett's performance, someone in the back of the theatre bellowed out: "Stop playing that neo-romantic bullshit and give us some real music!" - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 01:43:17 EDT From: JonAbbey2@aol.com Subject: Re: Mahfouz and summer reading In a message dated 8/21/01 11:25:14 PM, ssmith36@sprynet.com writes: << maybe it's a good time for the annual Zornlist Reading List thread. >> I recently finished Michael Chabon's The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay, which I thought was superb for about 400 pages, followed by 200 pages which didn't add too much. I also enjoyed Alan Moore's graphic novel, From Hell, a pretty compelling, thoroughly researched original take on Jack the Ripper. <<Haruki Murakami: Sputnik Sweetheart>> I thought this was pretty good. I divide Murakami's books into novels and "entertainments", a la Graham Greene, and I thought SS was the best of his entertainments thus far. for Murakami completists, there's a very good short piece in the new issue of Granta, Issue 74. his New Yorker stories are always excerpts from upcoming novels, but this felt like an actual story, and Amazon UK doesn't list anything new coming up for him. Jon www.erstwhilerecords.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 05:55:09 +0000 From: "thomas chatterton" <chatterton23@hotmail.com> Subject: Great American Composers cont. ...Raymond Scott, Moondog, George Gershwin, David Axelrod, Tim Buckley, Sun Ra, Neil Diamond, Brian Wilson, Billy Strayhorn, Earle Brown, George Clinton, Alvin Lucier, Woody Guthrie, Aaron Copland, Leonard Bernstein, Hank Williams, Johnny Mercer, Kurt Cobain, Pauline Oliveros, Buddy Holly, Dozier & Holland... _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #536 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. 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