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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #492
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Saturday, July 7 2001 Volume 03 : Number 492
In this issue:
-
Re: This Heat (was Massacre)
Bennink (was free impro) hehe it gets better and better
Re: dancing guitarists (was free improv (was Chadbourne))
Re: free improv (was Chadbourne)
Re: free improv (was Chadbourne)
Re: free improv (was Chadbourne)
Re: Bill Laswell
Re: Bill Laswell
Re: Bill Laswell (Laraaji)
Re: bill laswell/ talvin singh
about Xu Feng
Re: free improv (was Chadbourne)
Re: about Xu Feng
FIrstAvenue's 20 Anniversary Festival
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 18:44:25 -0400 (EDT)
From: konrad <konrad@panix.com>
Subject: Re: This Heat (was Massacre)
On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Arthur Gadney wrote:
> Small correction: I think This Heat was formed in 1976. Their first record
> is from 1977. They, of course, were one of the greatest bands of all time.
Agreed. There is a BBC recording out, not quite live. I have a bootleg
(which also contains the until-recently-unseen-by-me-on-CD EP Health and
Efficiency) that i bought someplace in NYC, but it isn't very good. The
one Camberwell Now lp i have is really nothing like TH, which i guess why
i don't like it.
konrad
> _________________________________________________________________
> Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
>
>
> -
>
>
^Z
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 22:46:39 -0000
From: "Arthur Gadney" <a_gadney@hotmail.com>
Subject: Bennink (was free impro) hehe it gets better and better
What I forgot to say about Bennink's theatrical stuff...:
There is more ways to create new and interesting situations in improvisation
than just with the instruments.
It's always a big goof if musician can somehow reply to an audience member
doing something strange or unsuspected (smashing a bottle, telephne ringing,
a police car drives by etc).
Why should musicians use the same posibilities for making creative
"situations"?
Suddenly changing a concert from a duo to a solo by walkiing of the stage
for a few minutes, can create very interesting MUSICAL happenings.
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 18:51:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: konrad <konrad@panix.com>
Subject: Re: dancing guitarists (was free improv (was Chadbourne))
On Fri, 6 Jul 2001, Arthur Gadney wrote:
> "syncopated wobblings"? Could you explain for those of us who aren't native
> English speakers? It sound pretty musical to me ;-)
I've only seen Frith about 4 times. Once way back when with Tom Cora, and
recently three times sitting down and once standing up playing some Art
Bears tunes with Charming Hostess, a local SF (now defunct) band. While
he played, he sort of swerved around, that's all. I took some film
footage of it actually that i edited about 2 seconds of into a music video
cut to an FZ guitar solo. The reference struck me as kinda funny.
konrad
^Z
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 01:52:36 -0000
From: "thomas chatterton" <chatterton23@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: free improv (was Chadbourne)
>From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net>
> >
>I get the impression that some of what Beenik does live is best filed under
>"theatrical craftsmanship". It's obviously not about strictly musical
>calculation with him.
>
In traditional show biz parlance, it is known as a 'shtick', and sometimes
it seems to take precedence over the actual sounds being produced. Dada was
not predictable...
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 21:53:00 EDT
From: Nudeants@aol.com
Subject: Re: free improv (was Chadbourne)
Well, geez, there are plenty of pianists that one could argue 'aren't
qualified' to play piano, yet we are forced to hear them. The same goes for
any instrument. One could even extend it to jazz players of the past 15
years (probably excepting those of the old guard), that they should need a
creativity permit to prevent them from subjecting us to retread solos. Heck,
take it even further to the practice of making records! All in all, I don't
think tabletop guitar in and of itself is such a hallowed medium that it need
be reserved for the worthy any more than any other instrument.
The fact remains, nonetheless, that certain sounds are only obtainable via
certain gestures or techniques. In improvisational music, one could debate
for hours about the relative appropriate-ness of a sounds particular
inclusion in a piece. I think, ultimately, the most important aspect is the
sound and its effect on you/me as the listener. Those who frivolously toss
off those sounds or techniques of any kind betray their shortcomings in
myriad other ways anyway, regardless of the musical parameter that they
happen to be abusing.
Rambling on,
- -matt mitchell
In a message dated 7/6/01 4:41:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
william_york@hotmail.com writes:
<< well, I guess it isn't that prevalent, but i can associate it with some of
the absolute worst free improv i have ever witnessed. not by big names, but
rather by local-type opening acts that seem to still be at a not-so-advanced
or well-defined stage in their playing (note: if I were to ever do an improv
show, this would definitely include me! so i keep it in the bedroom for
now...).
it is the same kind of impression i often get when seeing a percussionist
resort to the wet-finger-on-the-tom-tom or to bowing the cymbal -- it often
seems that these extended or "unusual" techniques are considered ends in
themselves, as proof that these people are "really improvising." certain
people, of course, use these sounds in a very musical way (tom rainey being
one recent example of a drummer i've seen doing it live), but it often just
seems arbitrary. i mean, a wet finger on a tom-tom in itself is not THAT
interesting of a sound! >>
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 02:27:06
From: "William York" <william_york@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: free improv (was Chadbourne)
well, the whole "permit" remark was originally of course somewhat sarcastic
and not meant literally, which i would hope would be clear ... one of my
friends plays table-top guitar sometimes in this free noise duo, and i have
joked with him about it. i actually like some of what he does.
someone else mentioned han bennink, too. i wasn't referring to him (i love
han bennink's playing) or saying "extended techniques are bad," just
commenting that it often seems that the need to be using SOME form of
unusual method of playing can be seen as offering "proof" that one is really
playing something "creative." (i have caught my lame self doing that, for
example.) as a listener, though, i often just ask myself, "what are they
actually trying to SAY with this wet-finger whoop?" ... those techniques can
be as stale and reflexive as someone else's running up and down a b flat
major scale or whatever.
how does this relate to the original point about improv guitar? i am not
totally sure, but i guess what i am thinking is that it while knowing how to
DO all the extended techniques of a chadbourne, or whoever else, would
certainly help with being a better or more well-rounded guitarist, rhe
techniques of these well-known improvisors themselves shouldn't be directly
equated with improvising. does that make any sense? or is it just a totally
obvious point to begin with ...
wy
>From: Nudeants@aol.com
>To: william_york@hotmail.com, zorn-list@lists.xmission.com
>Subject: Re: free improv (was Chadbourne)
>Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 21:53:00 EDT
>
>Well, geez, there are plenty of pianists that one could argue 'aren't
>qualified' to play piano, yet we are forced to hear them. The same goes
>for
>any instrument. One could even extend it to jazz players of the past 15
>years (probably excepting those of the old guard), that they should need a
>creativity permit to prevent them from subjecting us to retread solos.
>Heck,
>take it even further to the practice of making records! All in all, I
>don't
>think tabletop guitar in and of itself is such a hallowed medium that it
>need
>be reserved for the worthy any more than any other instrument.
>
>The fact remains, nonetheless, that certain sounds are only obtainable via
>certain gestures or techniques. In improvisational music, one could debate
>for hours about the relative appropriate-ness of a sounds particular
>inclusion in a piece. I think, ultimately, the most important aspect is
>the
>sound and its effect on you/me as the listener. Those who frivolously toss
>off those sounds or techniques of any kind betray their shortcomings in
>myriad other ways anyway, regardless of the musical parameter that they
>happen to be abusing.
>
>Rambling on,
>
>-matt mitchell
>
>
>In a message dated 7/6/01 4:41:21 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>william_york@hotmail.com writes:
>
><< well, I guess it isn't that prevalent, but i can associate it with some
>of
> the absolute worst free improv i have ever witnessed. not by big names,
>but
> rather by local-type opening acts that seem to still be at a
>not-so-advanced
> or well-defined stage in their playing (note: if I were to ever do an
>improv
> show, this would definitely include me! so i keep it in the bedroom for
> now...).
>
> it is the same kind of impression i often get when seeing a percussionist
> resort to the wet-finger-on-the-tom-tom or to bowing the cymbal -- it
>often
> seems that these extended or "unusual" techniques are considered ends in
> themselves, as proof that these people are "really improvising." certain
> people, of course, use these sounds in a very musical way (tom rainey
>being
> one recent example of a drummer i've seen doing it live), but it often
>just
> seems arbitrary. i mean, a wet finger on a tom-tom in itself is not THAT
> interesting of a sound! >>
_________________________________________________________________
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 22:57:21 -0400
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>
Subject: Re: Bill Laswell
At 08:44 PM 7/6/01 -0000, Arthur Gadney wrote:
>>Another Laswell project called Divination sounds like it would be up your=
=20
>>alley: Distill is a good record.
>
>I'm interested in this: Is it the one where Laswell is just playing in duo=
=20
>with some Indian dude playing an electric zither? Sound interesting at=20
>least. Is it dubbish?
There are five Divination albums, and the one with Laswell and Laraaji on
electric zither is Sacrifice. It is the most meditational of all the
Divination albums, not dubby at all. For the dub side, look for the first
two, Ambient Dub and Ambient Dub 2: Dead Slow. There is also a 2cd set,
Akasha, which is one disc of d&b, and one of ambient remixes. The fourth,
Distill, is eight tracks on 2 cds, each credited to a separate person (such
as Paul Schutze, Thomas K=F6ner, Laswell, etc.). Distill, like Sacrifice, i=
s
more beatless, more concentration on drones.
- --
One day the United States discovered that it was an empire. But it didn't
know what an empire was. It thought that an empire was merely the biggest
of all corporations. -- Roberto Calasso
Caleb Deupree
cdeupree@erinet.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 22:59:08 -0400
From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com>
Subject: Re: Bill Laswell
At 08:44 PM 7/6/2001 +0000, Arthur Gadney wrote:
>>Another Laswell project called Divination sounds like it would be up your
>>alley: Distill is a good record.
>
>I'm interested in this: Is it the one where Laswell is just playing in duo
>with some Indian dude playing an electric zither? Sound interesting at
>least. Is it dubbish?
No, this is Laswell with Paul Schultze, Pete Namlook, Haruomi Hosono, Mick
Harris, Thomas Koner, Anton Fier and Tetsu Inoue. Quite a stellar
cast. It's great dark ambient music (aka isolationism) with fascinating
textures to it.
Best,
Jason
Perfect Sound Forever
online music magazine
perfect-sound@furious.com
http://www.furious.com/perfect
- -
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 23:18:17 -0400
From: Perfect Sound Forever <perfect-sound@furious.com>
Subject: Re: Bill Laswell (Laraaji)
At 10:57 PM 7/6/2001 -0400, Caleb T. Deupree wrote:
>There are five Divination albums, and the one with Laswell and Laraaji on
>electric zither is Sacrifice. It is the most meditational of all the
>Divination albums, not dubby at all. For the dub side, look for the first=
=20
>two, Ambient Dub and Ambient Dub 2: Dead Slow. There is also a 2cd set,=20
>Akasha, which is one disc of d&b, and one of ambient remixes. The fourth,=
=20
>Distill, is eight tracks on 2 cds, each credited to a separate person=20
>(such as Paul Schutze, Thomas K=F6ner, Laswell, etc.). Distill, like=20
>Sacrifice, is more beatless, more concentration on drones.
For Laraaji, I'd definitely recommend "Ambient 3: Day of Radiance." Two=20
beautiful 'mediatations' and three lively 'dances' (as he calls them).
I didn't know much about who he was other than the fact that he had this=20
wonderful album out so I looked around the Net and found this interesting=20
bio: http://associated.caroline.com/gyroscope/laraaji/laraaji.html
Best,
Jason
Perfect Sound Forever
online music magazine
perfect-sound@furious.com
http://www.furious.com/perfect
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 07 Jul 2001 15:03:12 +0800
From: jmcazurin <mikah@ceruleansoftware.com>
Subject: Re: bill laswell/ talvin singh
At 09:53 PM 7/6/01, PaanKu@aol.com wrote:
>Tabla Beat Science - Tala Matrix
>
>Does anybody kno anything about this album? a friend of mine picked it up at
>random and told me about it, its essentially a bill laswell project, i
>believe dj talvin singh works as a coengineer or something...
As Kasra said, the tabla playing on this album is mind-blowing. The
compositions themselves range from okay to pretty good, IMHO. I much prefer
Talvin Singh's "OK" album. Less tablas (still a lot though) but the writing
is incredible. (disclaimer: i know next to nothing of tabla playing and
indian music in general)
mikah
I am dancing at the feet of my lord,
knowing the eternal secret is this:
in all worlds and lives and times,
all is bliss, all is bliss, all is bliss.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 10:29:23 +0200
From: Rob Allaert <Rob@llaert.NU>
Subject: about Xu Feng
Zorn-agains,
I'm still figuring out wether or not I like Xu Feng. The tracks I really
like are the 2 or 3 calmer compositions. 'The Beauty of...' for example is
really interesting but most of the songs are quite chaotic. I wonder,
those of you who like it, do you headbang while listening to these songs
or do you politely move your left foot to the hectic rythm? How do you
relate to the ear-busting ? Tell me all about it.
I would like Zorn to make a full album of 'The Beauty ...' type songs
though.
greetings,
Rob @ risk
np: xu feng
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 12:52:15 +0200
From: "=?Windows-1252?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?=" <efrendv@yahoo.es>
Subject: Re: free improv (was Chadbourne)
>>>>The thing about Bennink is that if you don't think his performance is
>"funny", you can just close your eyes and just *hear* that he is the best
>improv drummer in the world<<<
>
Absolutely. I don't think there could be anyone who didn't enjoy seeing
this guy live. His is not a mere drumming performance, but he's a work of
art by himself (and due to his age, maybe a relic, too).
When he visited Barcelona with Ellery Eskelin, he even drummed on the lamps
on the wall, getting to break one of them with the emotion of the moment!
I also had a chance to see a video of his performance (in Victoriaville??)
with Mike Patton and David Slusser. I loved the concert, but Bennink really
was the tip of the hat. In the middle of an improv, he just sat on the floor
and began banging a big piece of wood as if he was possessed, in an
epileptic fit or something. Totally surrealistic.
Greets,
EfrΘn del Valle
n.p: Fred Frith "Traffic Continues" (I'll never stop enjoying this)
n.r: Chris Rodley "Lynch on Lynch" (Thanks to those who recommended this;
and amazing book that proves Lynch is probably one of the most twisted minds
I've ever known)
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 13:10:21 +0200
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?=" <efrendv@yahoo.es>
Subject: Re: about Xu Feng
I'm still figuring out wether or not I like Xu Feng. The tracks I really
>like are the 2 or 3 calmer compositions. 'The Beauty of...' for example is
>really interesting but most of the songs are quite chaotic. I wonder,
>those of you who like it, do you headbang while listening to these songs
>or do you politely move your left foot to the hectic rythm? How do you
>relate to the ear-busting ? Tell me all about it.
Well, I love the album as a whole. I think that one of its highlights are
these contrasts between "heavier", noisy stuff and the quieter sections
like "The Beauty of Yang Hui-Chen". IMHO, this mixture becomes the dynamics
of the piece, giving it a certain argumental continuity. I don't think that
the "harder-to-listen" pieces are really chaotic. I guess it depends on each
one's logics. For me, chaotic means "Locus Solus". Different conceptions, I
suppose.
However, I can't help being surprised by the fact that you "don't know
whether you like the album or not". There are not (or there shouldn't be)
reasons to enjoy or dislike music, cinema, literature or whatever. You
simply like it or not.
Also, don't you think that an album comprised only by these calmer
compositions would be really boring? I do.
BTW, I politely move my left foot.
Regards,
EfrΘn
n.p: (Obviously) "Xu-Feng"
_________________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 15:55:59 -0400
From: jason tors <jasontors@yahoo.com>
Subject: FIrstAvenue's 20 Anniversary Festival
FIRSTAVENUE - NYC'S PREMIER AVANT GARDE TRIO PRESENTS
MULTIPLE ORGANISMS 1 2 3
20thANNIVERSARY - FESTIVAL OF NEW MUSIC
3 EVENINGS OF SPONTANEOUS ELECTRO-ACOUSTIC NEW MUSIC AND VIDEO
THAT WILL KEEP YOU COMING BACK FOR MORE
FRIDAY - JULY 13 - 8 PM - TOUCH
FIRST AVENUE with GLEN VALEZ
SATURDAY - JULY 14 - 8 PM - NEAR FUTURISM
FIRST AVENUE with KEVINJAMES AND PEGGY KAMPMEIER
SUNDAY - JULY 15 - 3 PM - RASTOPOLUS PROJECTED
FIRST AVENUE with MULTI-CHANNEL VIDEO AND ACTORS CAROL JACOBANIS AND CHRIS
BERG
CONTEXT STUDIOS IN WILLIAMSBURG, BROOKLYN. (A HOT-BED FORCONTEMPORARY ART AND
MUSIC) #1 North 12th Street located near both the Land G subways. For
further directions go to WWW.FirstAvenue.org and click the ContextNYC link.
Tickets at the door are $12/6 students and seniors for single events
$20 for 2 events and $24 for 3.
FirstAvenue20th Anniversary SeasonMULTIPLE ORGANISMS - will proceed, as it
has since the late 20thCentury, with fascinatingly organized sights and
sounds at each of its three events.
William Kannar - double bass, electronics, computer, video;
C. Bryan Rulon - piano, synthesizers, electronics, computer;
Matt Sullivan - oboe, English horn, digital horn, electronics
MULTIPLEORGANISMS 1 2 3
1
FRIDAY,JULY 13 at 8 PM TOUCH FIRSTAVENUE with GLEN VALEZ
- -PERCUSSIONMultiple Organisms. Valez's exotic, pulsing percussion timbres and
FirstAvenue's undulating electro-acoustic wash of unexpected primal and
exhilarating sounds offer performer and audience alike an exciting
opportunity for a provocative musical experience. The concert includes solo
works by FirstAvenue and Valez. It also features the premiere of a new
setting for "Oh Boy!"", Matt Sullivan's acclaimed solo work for oboe adding
Valez's colorful rhythmic elaborations to Sullivan's orbiting, sonic flutter.
In addition, FirstAvenue and Valez will present the premiere of an expanded
version of another
FirstAvenue classic, William Kannar's "Proof", (which, along with Oh Boy! can
be heard in their original solo versions onFirstAvenue's most recent CD
Shreds of Evidence on O.O.DiscsRecords).
2
NEAR FUTURISM
On Saturday, July 14 at 8 PM FirstAvenue will present the 2nd of 3 concerts
presented during MULTIPLE ORGANISMS. The concert features the premiere of
Kevin James' 6 EASY PIECES in 9short movements, a new work for oboe,
keyboards, bass, audiotape and actors based on the taped lectures of
physicist, Richard Feynman. Virtuoso pianist, Peggy Kampmeier will present a
rousing performance of THE LUDDITES DISCLAIMER by C. Bryan Rulon for piano
versus computer. And, Kevin, along with his trombone (and 3 guest actors)
will join FirstAvenue and Peggy Kampmeier for improvisations and compositions.
3
RASTOPOLUS PROJECTED
SUNDAY - JULY 15 - 3PM - FIRST AVENUE MULTI-MEDIA Rastopolus Projected
This quintessentially FirstAvenue event will feature an evening length,
multi-channel video work by William Kannar accompanied by FirstAvenue. The
Context Studio stage will be transformed as guest actors Carol Jacobanis and
Chris Berg spice the evening's discourse by appearing and disappearing live
among the processed images of New York City. The swirling, multi-faceted
videos become visceral, abstract expressionistic images in motion. And, with
the intimacy of 20 years of improvising together, the 3 members of
FirstAvenue enter into another relationship with the videos which actualize
the imagery as a 4th element, providing a sonic analog and/or counterpoint.
This engaging relationship also actualizes the season's theme, MULTIPLE
ORGANISMS: that peculiarly contemporary phenomenon of simultaneously
experiencing the many facets of the familiar and unfamiliar.
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #492
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