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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest) To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #447 Reply-To: zorn-list Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com Precedence: bulk Zorn List Digest Sunday, May 27 2001 Volume 03 : Number 447 In this issue: - Re: ware/ali Avant big bands Re: Q re keiji haino boxed set Re: koenig quick! pleae--<< Sony Ligeti series on sale CHEAP at Tower >> re: haino box info Re: Q re keiji haino boxed set Re: Q re keiji haino boxed set Re: one of Zappa's Grammies, and a HatHut / Matchless / etc. question Re: Avant big bands Plunderphonics... when truth is much stranger than fiction fuck de boere Holger Czukay Re: when truth is much stranger than fiction Re: fuck de boere Review of new Haino cd on Alien8, pt. I Review of new Haino cd on Alien8, pt. II ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 19:07:40 +0200 From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?=" <efrendv@yahoo.es> Subject: Re: ware/ali > >In a message dated 5/25/01 11:24:04 AM, >owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes: > ><< PS: just came back from the Vision Festival. saw a really bad duo of David >Ware & Rashied Ali. Ali was great, but I found that Ware was totally lacking >in ideas, sensitivity, etc. and he was NEGATIVE as hell... (and I've seen him >about half a dozn times, same reaction.) he could've been in his bedroom. why >on earth is this guy so popular? can anybody who's into him tell me? >> > I've just seen Ware once but I'd like to second that negative opinion on him, further to Steve Koenig's so far. Although in my case he visited Barcelona with his regular quartet, already w/o Susie Ibarra, he left me so cold I couldn't believe it, specially after so much appraisal to this guy. If the concert lasted 90 minutes, he sat down for 70 m at least, and the rest wasn't that impressing at all. Blowing hard doesn't mean you're expressive. I also found him stronger on record, but his unevolving compositions don't manage to hook me up either. Guillermo E. Brown's performance was annoying and Shipp is too cold a pianist for my taste. The results?: It was worth to see Parker (a full orchestra on his own). Best regards, EfrΘn del Valle n.p: Charlie Haden "Liberation Music Orchestra" (Impulse!) _________________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 13:30:23 EDT From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: Avant big bands In a message dated 5/26/01 9:13:58 AM, owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes: << Avant big bands >> omg, how did i forget (did others mention) butch morris' conductions! not to mention muhal richard abrams' big bands and some (not all) of david murray's BB stuff slams. and either/orkestra ditto; always great live. steve koenig n.p.: neil young/csny: farm aid 2000 bootleg - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 13:43:05 EDT From: Knutboy@aol.com Subject: Re: Q re keiji haino boxed set - --part1_3b.1521a1fd.28414529_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Haino box is all of 4 CDs, no booklet, no information, and in my opinion a really uninteresting line in his vast discography. Steve - --part1_3b.1521a1fd.28414529_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>Haino box is all of 4 CDs, no booklet, no information, and in my opinion a really uninteresting line in his vast discography. Steve</HTML> - --part1_3b.1521a1fd.28414529_boundary-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 13:52:03 EDT From: DvdBelkin@aol.com Subject: Re: koenig quick! pleae--<< Sony Ligeti series on sale CHEAP at Tower >> They're in the main store, in the corner past the the classical checkout counter (I guess that would be the NE corner of the classical dept., for those of you using a compass). Bevare, BEVARE: some of the CDs in the sales corner are also scattered about the rest of the department *without* the discount price tags. (For example, Yo Yo Ma's "Made in America" is priced $9.99 in the corner and $17.99 in the regular Ma section.) Enjoy. David np: Plimley, Oswald, Crispell, and CT, "Complicite." Oh. My. God. In a message dated 5/26/01 10:58:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Acousticlv@aol.com writes: > In a message dated 5/25/01 11:24:04 AM, > owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com writes: > > << Sony Ligeti series on sale CHEAP at Tower >> > > steve- my hero > are these in the annex or the main store? > email or phone me before i leave for tonight > love > steve koenig 718 332 6517 > - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 14:03:38 EDT From: Acousticlv@aol.com Subject: re: haino box info dear craig, revuedes, and knut: thanks knut, i tend to agree with you; not his best stuff. since i got it used for 50 bux im prolly glad i got it anyway. im just glad im not missing any inner stuff. others have told me that the indiv booklets had titles in english and japanese. i have to look- hang on-- yup, tho now im blind. black on dark grey, as per usual. also, as revuedes says, a thin black wraparound shash. now my only "moral question" is to save space shd i put em in 2 empty dbl-slim cases or keep in the box anyway shd i decide to sell or tradesome day :) regards to all steve koenig n.p.: mexican dance mix CDr , sold in tepito open market, w/ unreadably blurry type, still worth the 15 pesos = $1.70, no tax, natch - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 14:33:45 EDT From: JSub@aol.com Subject: Re: Q re keiji haino boxed set - --part1_e1.153aed0c.28415109_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I'm purchased this new from Other Music last summer and it came sealed - i think. The box had a black ribbon around it but other than that it was just 4 cd's. Jeff > dear scott & all, > i bought this used, and found absolutely no booklet > or text within the package, which the store said > did exist. can anyone confirm if there was anything > beyond the 4 discs in the box? > feel free to answer me off-list > gratefully, > steve koenig - --part1_e1.153aed0c.28415109_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>I'm purchased this new from Other Music last summer and it came sealed - i think. The box had a black ribbon around it but other than that it was just 4 cd's. Jeff <BLOCKQUOTE TYPE=CITE style="BORDER-LEFT: #0000ff 2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">dear scott & all, i bought this used, and found absolutely no booklet or text within the package, which the store said did exist. can anyone confirm if there was anything beyond the 4 discs in the box? feel free to answer me off-list gratefully, steve koenig</BLOCKQUOTE> </HTML> - --part1_e1.153aed0c.28415109_boundary-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 12:30:04 -0700 From: "Revue des Fossiles" <revuedesfossiles@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Q re keiji haino boxed set As the 4CD set contains the earliest available "legitmate" recordings from Lost Aaraaf, Keiji Haino, and Fushitsusha this release is, at the very least, a very important historical document in the "vast" Haino disocgraphy. That is, until the recordings of Fushitsusha featuring Tamio Shiraishi and Ayuo Takahashi see offical release. RdF. >Haino box is all of 4 CDs, no booklet, no information, and in my opinion a >really uninteresting line in his vast discography. > >Steve _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 14:22:11 -0700 (PDT) From: Scott Handley <thesubtlebody@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: one of Zappa's Grammies, and a HatHut / Matchless / etc. question - --- Benito Vergara <bvergara@sfsu.edu> wrote: > I'm currently on a mission to plug some of the holes > in my meager AMM and > Morton Feldman collections, and I was wondering if > anyone knew of good > (online) places to get them for the best price. Some very nice Feldman on HatArt (the older Hats), very cheap (i.e. FOR CHRISTIAN WOLFF, 3cds, $10), at http://www.jazzmart.com/jrm.hatart.htm Some other nice old Hats, several for $4. Go forth and consume, young man! - -----s __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 20:16:13 EDT From: Dgasque@aol.com Subject: Re: Avant big bands Three that haven't been mentioned--both out of the Nederlands: Contraband, Pierre Dorge New Jungle Orchestra and...and...darn...my mind's gone blank...they're also on BVHaast...along the lines of Breuker's Kollektief...had those outstanding cartoon album covers. Sean Bergin...has he been mentioned? From Italy- New Emily Jazz Orchestra...talk about an esoteric ensemble...also from Italy--Roberto Colombo had an outstanding album of big-band/Canterbury-influenced jazz on Ultima Spiaggia called _Botte Da Orbi_ . - -- =dg= - - ------------------------------ Date: Sat, 26 May 2001 21:30:53 EDT From: Orangejazz@aol.com Subject: Plunderphonics... - --part1_84.1680ac2b.2841b2cd_boundary Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hey, I thought I"d mention, just in case it hasn't been mentioned, that in the John Oswald boxset, there is a track called "Z", which is basically his de- or re- construction of Naked City. It's only 18 seconds long, I could probably upload it to an FTP if there was one available. Apparently it was prompted by Zorn's wish to cover Oswald's "net" piece with Naked City. from, matt - --part1_84.1680ac2b.2841b2cd_boundary Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit <HTML>Hey, I thought I"d mention, just in case it hasn't been mentioned, that in the John Oswald boxset, there is a track called "Z", which is basically his de- or re- construction of Naked City. It's only 18 seconds long, I could probably upload it to an FTP if there was one available. Apparently it was prompted by Zorn's wish to cover Oswald's "net" piece with Naked City. from, matt</HTML> - --part1_84.1680ac2b.2841b2cd_boundary-- - - ------------------------------ Date: Mon, 28 May 2001 00:48:24 -0700 From: Skip Heller <velaires@earthlink.net> Subject: when truth is much stranger than fiction This is an actual news thing. Prince Swears off Cursing The Associated Press May 26 2001 8:40AM NEW YORK (AP) - A G-rated Prince? It may be hard to believe, but the singer who once provoked shock waves wit= h his X-rated lyrics has sworn off cursing and is preaching about the importance of virtue in the May edition of Gotham magazine. Prince, who is now a Jehovah's Witness, said that ``when you use those (curse) words, you call up all the anger, all the negatives times the word has been used before - you bring it toward yourself. Why would you want that?''=20 Prince also told the magazine that teens need more God in their lives. ``When I look at the violence, I wonder where the parents are, but also where is God in their lives? A kid is an open computer ready for programming. Some weird relationships happen, smoking too early and sex.'' Jehovah's Witnesses are an apocalyptic group that interprets the Bible differently than traditional Christian organizations. APO/Prince-Lyrics-Gotham/ Copyright =A9 2001 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. Al= l active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL Anywhere.=20 - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 11:38:24 -0000 From: "Bill Ashline" <bashline@hotmail.com> Subject: fuck de boere I just sent my order for this today. Has anyone heard it yet and have any comments? The reviews I've read have been rather ecstatic. I'm wondering if the CD measures up. I was also wondering if the Brotzmann set with Mahmoud Ghania live in Wels is still available. The usual suspects at GEMM claim to have it, but I doubt it. Is it available elsewhere? Thanks in advance. _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 11:49:24 -0000 From: "Bill Ashline" <bashline@hotmail.com> Subject: Holger Czukay I quite like the piece that Czukay has on the OHM Electronic Music comp called "Boat-Woman-Song." A nice piece of concrete that delivers its social and political message by the sheer beauty of the voice being used. Though conceptually I imagine that such work would lose interest if it were done more than a few times, but nonetheless, I find myself quite drawn to it, in the way I'm drawn to Robert Ashley's "Automatic Writing." Anything else similar to "Canaxis?" _________________________________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 09:20:36 -0400 From: Mike Chamberlain <mikec@rocler.qc.ca> Subject: Re: when truth is much stranger than fiction on 5/28/01 3:48 AM, Skip Heller at velaires@earthlink.net wrote: > Jehovah's Witnesses are an apocalyptic group that >interprets the Bible > differently than traditional Christian organizations.< Now there's a start. - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 09:48:56 -0400 From: Mathieu Belanger <mathieu.belanger@UMontreal.CA> Subject: Re: fuck de boere Hello, >I just sent my order for this today. Has anyone heard it yet and have any >comments? The reviews I've read have been rather ecstatic. I'm wondering >if the CD measures up. I bought this one this week. First, I must say that the sound is good. It is not always the case with early Brotzmann recordings (and even with some that are not so early!). I was afraid it might sound like _Nipples_, but it's mush better. Concerning the music, it's quite good too I think. I actually have only played it once, but it's quite nice. The first piece is "Machine Gun". I guess it's a take that is not on the _Machine Gun_ album on FMP (well, I hope!). The second one is "Fuck De Boere". Musically, it fits in what Brotzmann was doing in the late 60's/early 70's. Something like the Tentet meets _Nipples_ or the Brotzmann/Van Hove/Bennink trio maybe... >I was also wondering if the Brotzmann set with Mahmoud Ghania live in Wels > is still available. The usual suspects at GEMM claim to have it, but I >doubt it. Is it available elsewhere? Thanks in advance. I think it's available. I have seen it here in Montreal. I am afraid I can't help for online place though... Hope it helps, Mathieu - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 12:04:49 -0400 From: David Keffer <keffer@planetc.com> Subject: Review of new Haino cd on Alien8, pt. I Here is a review of the new double cd by Keiji Haino, "Abandon all words at a stroke, so that prayer can come spilling out", released this month on Alien8 records ( http://www.alien8recordings.com ). Alien8 -- ALIENCD27 -- release date: May, 2001 double compact disc - 2 tracks - 91:31 minutes - - disc one [Keiji Haino: hurdy gurdy & voice] - "Whereto can I cast away this fragrant echo called The End, so that I may summon an awakening from the other side?" (47:13) This is the third full-length cd featuring Haino on hurdy gurdy, the first two being released on PSF and Tokuma Japan, in addition to a 17-minute piece that was released on an oop halana compilation ( http://www.halana.com ). If you haven't heard any of the Haino hurdy-gurdy releases, listening to at least one is essential. Haino provokes an eerie semi-mechanical, semi-acoustic drone from the instrument. The natural sound of the instrument in Haino's hands leans toward the abrasive side. Of the three full-length hurdy-gurdy releases to date, the sound has become progressively less abrasive, tending toward the mellow. But mellow is a relative term. "Abandon all words at a stroke" is as mellow as I think Haino could get on the hurdy-gurdy, i.e. it is mellowly abrasive. The vocals are soft and contemplative, absent of Haino's howls and shrieks that distinguish many of his other recordings. All together, the single track cd has a gentle and affectionate feel to it. The drones are not so long or uniform that the listener can tune it out. On the contrary, the drones are constantly being manipulated by the speed and continuity with which Haino turns the crank of the instrument. If you haven't heard any of the Haino hurdy gurdy cds, this is a good place to start. If you have heard the others and you enjoyed them, you will certainly dig this one as well. There is some new hurdy-gurdy playing about 30 minutes into the track, where he plucks the strings simultaneously with turning the crank. Pretty cool. In short, I think this disc is just excellent. I myself wonder where a disc like this fits in with the "electro-acoustic" scene. I do not really understand the criteria by which music is labeled "electro-acoustic" and I wonder if the manipulation of drones on this cd fits inside, outside, or beside "electro-acoustic" music. Perhaps, someone else who has heard Haino on hurdy gurdy and has some better understanding of the term "electro-acoustic" could comment on this. David K. Site Maintenance Man An Unofficial Keiji Haino http://www.planetc.com/users/keffer/haino/index.html - - ------------------------------ Date: Sun, 27 May 2001 12:04:58 -0400 From: David Keffer <keffer@planetc.com> Subject: Review of new Haino cd on Alien8, pt. II Review continued: - - disc two [Keiji Haino: wave drum & voice] - "I have decided to tear you to pieces Whether you become darkness or light depends on you I wonder, which shall you choose?" (44:18) This second disc also reads as a single-track, but it contains roughly a dozen distinct "songs". All feature Haino on "wave drum" and voice. This is Haino's first official release featuring wave drum. I don't know precisely what manner of electronic percussion the wave drum is but only in some of the tracks do you hear its "wavy-ness". (By this I mean, you hear variations in pitch during the duration of the drum resonance, along the lines of a tabla.) On the other tracks, widely different electronic sounds are generated by this instrument. The vocals are much harsher and choppier than on the disc one, shrieks and barks here and there. The disc tends toward the sparse, in my opinion. Haino has released one other percussion and vocal cd, "Tenshi no gijinka" on Tzadik, and this new disc bears zero resemblance to that disc. Where "Tenshi no gijinka" was heavy on acoustic drums and cymbals with melodic and peaceful monastic-like chanting, this disc is more like a hodge-podge of Haino spontaneous (read: not planned out) experiments with electronic percussion. Certainly the result is some freaked-out sound, but freaked-out sound is a dime-a-dozen in these quarters (think Naked City's Torture Garden or Boredom's entire repertoire), and I am not initially sure that this cd garners many repeated listenings. I mean, if I am going to get freaked-out music, I want more than just freaked-out, I want freaked-out and engaging. In sharp contrast to the first disc in this 2-cd set, at times the wave-drum cd sounds distinctly unrefined or even unprofessional. As a comparison, there was a Haino rudra vina solo released on PSF's Tokyo Flashback Volume 4 several years ago, where it sounded like the track was a document of Haino and the vina's first meeting. He picks it up. He plucks tentatively. He gradually explores the sonic capabilities of the instrument. It was not a very musical track but it held interest in the narrative sense of relating the development of the Haino/vina meeting. But this wave drum cd, for whatever reason, does not have the same appeal. Of course, there is a philosophy behind the creation of this sort of improvised music, an intentional distancing from premeditated playing and from calculated sound. Even the beginning and ending of some of the tracks, where the sound starts and ends abruptly, as if someone (Haino) haphazardly chose the point at which to cut the tape, reflects this philosophy against refinement. That's fine but it doesn't work for me on this disc. I don't feel like the music is so interesting that I will venture into the realms of philosophy to justify it. One last comment on this cd. On this list, we are all familiar with the unfortunate realization of "separate room" improv, where the various players appear to be unaware of the other musicians in the room. Haino's collabs with European free improvisers (Barre Phillips, Peter Brotzmann, Derek Bailey. etc.) mostly avoid this, but occassionally succumb to it. What is unusual about this wave drum cd is that, although Haino is both playing the percussion and singing, it borders on "separate room" improv. How can the mouth be unaware of what the hand is doing and vice-versa? From a philosophical point of view, someone might say it's a brilliant idea, but from the point of view of listenability, it leaves something to be desired. David K. Site Maintenance Man An Unofficial Keiji Haino http://www.planetc.com/users/keffer/haino/index.html - - ------------------------------ End of Zorn List Digest V3 #447 ******************************* To unsubscribe from zorn-list-digest, send an email to "majordomo@lists.xmission.com" with "unsubscribe zorn-list-digest" in the body of the message. For information on digests or retrieving files and old messages send "help" to the same address. Do not use quotes in your message. A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "zorn-list-digest" in the commands above with "zorn-list". Back issues are available for anonymous FTP from ftp.xmission.com, in pub/lists/zorn-list/archive. These are organized by date. Problems? Email the list owner at zorn-list-owner@lists.xmission.com