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Zorn List Digest         Saturday, May 5 2001         Volume 03 : Number 405



In this issue:
-
       nearsighted
       Re: AMM & B-MANN
       balls-in/out
       Re: AMM & B-MANN
       Re: Alasnoaxis (the shape of jazz to come?)
       Re: AMM & B-MANN
       Re: AMM & B-MANN (and Cecil Taylor)
       Master Higgins (NZ)
       sdrawkcabssa
       Re: Alasnoaxis (the shape of jazz to come?)
       Fwd: Re: Alasnoaxis (the shape of jazz to come?)
       Re: Michael Blake
       Zorn and WDR orchestra
       Re: sdrawkcabssa
       Re: Alasnoaxis (the shape of jazz to come?)
       Re: Michael Blake
       Billy Higgins
       Re: Soft Machine
       the tango lesson

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 17:16:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: alberta <[e-mail]>
Subject: nearsighted

three weeks away, and the knit still has no mention of the vision fest on its website.

ingrates!

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- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 14:30:00 -0700
From: "z~S" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: AMM & B-MANN

>>>I've seen the Die Like A Dog quartet, both with Kondo and with Campbell, as
well as the Tentet, and while the compositions were varied (at least in the
Tentet), Brotzmann's playing was almost uniformly balls-out blaring. I've
seen him at least six or seven times over the years in different contexts,
and I've always felt this to be the case. many people enjoy that, and more
power to them, but let's not talk about Brotzmann's varied range of playing,
please.<<<

I just think people who are more into balls-in improvisation don't listen as carefully to
balls-out improvisation. Someone who thinks the silence and whistling at the close
of an AMM performance is "riveting" will probably not hear the variety of expression
in Brotzmann's expressionism. I find both kinds of music riveting and varied, so I
don't mean to sound critical of the AMM description. I loved that description and wish
I could have been there to witness it.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 16:39:37 -0500
From: "Robert A. Pleshar" <[e-mail]>
Subject: balls-in/out

I think someone has just coined a new term that we must all use whenever
possible. Right now I'm enjoying some of the balls-in improvisation of
Jimmy Giuffre and earlier this morning the balls-out Gold Sparkle Band. Boy
this works really well. I like both balls-out and balls-in but it depends
on the temperature.

Rob

At 02:30 PM 5/3/01 -0700, z~S wrote:
>I just think people who are more into balls-in improvisation don't listen
as carefully to
>balls-out improvisation. Someone who thinks the silence and whistling at
the close
>of an AMM performance is "riveting" will probably not hear the variety of
expression
>in Brotzmann's expressionism. I find both kinds of music riveting and
varied, so I
>don't mean to sound critical of the AMM description. I loved that
description and wish
>I could have been there to witness it.
>
>
>-
>

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 18:23:44 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: AMM & B-MANN

In a message dated 5/3/01 5:32:44 PM, [e-mail] writes:

<< I just think people who are more into balls-in improvisation don't listen
as carefully to
balls-out improvisation. Someone who thinks the silence and whistling at the
close
of an AMM performance is "riveting" will probably not hear the variety of
expression
in Brotzmann's expressionism. >>

well, this might be the case, and is probably true to an extent for some of
the more recent Brotzmann sets I've seen. but even when I was into energy
jazz, I wasn't much of a Brotzmann fan, preferring players like Ware and
Gayle. I just don't think there's that much "variety of expression in
Brotzmann's expressionism", sorry.

Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 18:31:19 -0400
From: Ryan <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Alasnoaxis (the shape of jazz to come?)

I'm curious if you've heard the album and what you think of it. I have a
great impression from the music from the recording, but haven't been able t=
o
see them live.

Ryan
np: Iancu Dumitrescu "Medium III" (Fernando Grillo!!)


- --
From: "Efr=E9n del Valle" <[e-mail]>
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 22:20:46 +0200
To: "Zorn-list" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Alasnoaxis (the shape of jazz to come?)


After the Alasnoaxis concert (in Barcelona) yesterday night, I must say tha=
t
I've got something more than mixed feelings about it.
=20
My first impression is that in Alasnoaxis, Jim Black has tried to blend too
many things all at once, but the ideas seemed underdeveloped to me. As if
the compositions led nowhere.
Even Black was uninspired.
=20


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 03 May 2001 18:31:44 -0400
From: Brian Olewnick <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: AMM & B-MANN

[e-mail] wrote:

>
> well, this might be the case, and is probably true to an extent for some of
> the more recent Brotzmann sets I've seen. but even when I was into energy
> jazz, I wasn't much of a Brotzmann fan, preferring players like Ware and
> Gayle. I just don't think there's that much "variety of expression in
> Brotzmann's expressionism", sorry.

His solo recordings that I know ('No Nothing', 'Nothing to Say' and
'Solo') give one a somewhat different perspective on his balls-out
playing. A lot more restraint shown there than in his "typical" work in
group contexts.

Brian Olewnick

NP: Master Musicians of Jajouka - Apocalypse Across the Sky

- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 21:54:46 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: AMM & B-MANN (and Cecil Taylor)

Have any groups who have played together for 30ish years managed to avoid
building a consistent vocabulary as AMM has? Is that necessarily a good
thing? "Freedom" might exist to a great extent in the ear of the
listener who is less familiar with the group's vocabulary.

In a talk today at Johns Hopkins (which was massively disappointing in
most ways), Cecil Taylor mentioned that any group of musicians who
play together more than a very few times develop a common language. He
and Tony Oxley agreed that "non-idiomatic improv" rarely exists, since
the languages quickly develop and form into idioms.

(The disappointing part? The seminar, supposedly on Composition and
Notation, consisted mostly of Cecil quoting fourth-hand ideas of
Egyptian mythology, reciting (mostly true but off topic) tirades of
revisionist American history (he seems to have just discovered
Howard Zinn), and rambling on with interminable gossip about other
musicians. The academics in the room quickly gave up on keeping him
on course, and the ostensible subject of the seminar rarely came up.
Had I know this was going to happen, I wouldn't have taken off work
and hopped a train to Baltimore to experience it. I've lost interest
in returning there for his shows the next two nights, especially since
there seems to be a (familiar sounding) battle on over whether the
powers that be will let him play a good piano for fear of his breaking
it.)

On Thu, May 03, 2001 at 05:24:32PM -0000, thomas chatterton wrote:

> And Brotzmann has
> changed so much since then, certainly his playing and compositions with the
> Chicago Octet/Tentet are a great indication of this. Whereas AMM are still
> ploughing the same furrows they dug some 34 years ago! Please don't get me
> wrong here (and I know I'm tredding on dangerous ground!), I have the
> greatest respect for AMM and what they do,( I bought their first LP many
> years ago), it's just their 'concept' (or as they say in show business,
> 'shtick') has now become, shall we say, predictable. Within that domain,
> they are still capable of amazing accomplishments, BUT you still know what
> the parameters of each performance will be. And your mention of Barry Guy is
> also relevant, because I find that players like him and Han Bennick have
> also developed a 'free' shtick, in that you now know what their 'outside'
> techniques are, and between their predictability and novelty value, are they
> necessarily 'free' anymore? Plus, I find they tend to distract from their
> other performing and composing strengths. But, hey, this is only  my
> perception on this, I still maintain the utmost respect for these players, I
> just perceive an unresolved paradox in their musical philosophies...

- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 00:12:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ryan William Blum <[e-mail]>
Subject: Master Higgins (NZ)

If y'all haven't heard yet, we lost Billy Higgins last night.

I'm going to sleep with Lonely Woman on repeat...


- -

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 21:30:48 -0700
From: "z~S" <[e-mail]>
Subject: sdrawkcabssa

Putting in great effort to hear Cecil Taylor talk, then not going to hear him play, is dyslexia at its most severe.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 14:46:18 +1000
From: "Julian" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Alasnoaxis (the shape of jazz to come?)

When I first heard the cd, I was completely blown away, but it took me a few
more listens to realise that this was more because of the sounds they are
creating rather than the tunes or the solos. I think you certainly have to
be in the mood for it.

As far as being the shape of jazz to come, such a suggestion certainly makes
some sense, well at least more than these electronic albums named "Future
Sound Of Jazz" or whatever... It's improvised music but with more of a focus
on structure and tone rather than simply blowing at 100 miles an hour.

A happy middle ground for me is some of the stuff Peter Epstein's been doing
with his quartet - really nice sounds, but with great tunes and expressive
solos as well...


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 10:04:57 +0200 (CEST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?efr=E9n=20del=20valle?= <[e-mail]>
Subject: Fwd: Re: Alasnoaxis (the shape of jazz to come?)

Hi Ryan,

I've not heard the album. Jim Black insisted a few
times that it would be on sale after the concert but I
didn't feel intrigued with it.
Winter & Winter is having a really bad distribution in
Barcelona lately.

I thought that if the live performance hadn't
impressed me, probably those compositions on CD would
be even less expressive (IMHO). Maybe I'm wrong and
the concert was a bad exception in their career.

Greetings,

EfrΘn del valle
- --- Ryan <[e-mail]> escribi≤: > Fecha:
Thu, 03 May 2001 18:31:19 -0400
> Asunto: Re: Alasnoaxis (the shape of jazz to come?)
> De: Ryan <[e-mail]>
> Para: Zorn List <[e-mail]>
>
> I'm curious if you've heard the album and what you
> think of it. I have a
> great impression from the music from the recording,
> but haven't been able to
> see them live.
>
> Ryan
> np: Iancu Dumitrescu "Medium III" (Fernando
> Grillo!!)
>
>
> --
> From: "EfrΘn del Valle" <[e-mail]>
> Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 22:20:46 +0200
> To: "Zorn-list" <[e-mail]>
> Subject: Alasnoaxis (the shape of jazz to come?)
>
>
> After the Alasnoaxis concert (in Barcelona)
> yesterday night, I must say that
> I've got something more than mixed feelings about
> it.
>
> My first impression is that in Alasnoaxis, Jim Black
> has tried to blend too
> many things all at once, but the ideas seemed
> underdeveloped to me. As if
> the compositions led nowhere.
> Even Black was uninspired.
>
>
>
> -
>


_______________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Messenger: Comunicaci≤n inmediata gratis con tus amigos -
http://messenger.yahoo.es

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 11:14:40 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Ricardo Reis <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Michael Blake

\../,

> >From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
>
> And it's perhaps worth noting as well that the ancient Chams were piratic
> rivals of the Khmers and are depicted in the bas reliefs at Angkor.  Some
> outstanding examples of their own Hindu-inspired architecture remain at Nha
> Trang and Phan Rang Thap Cham in the south of what is now Vietnam.  And
> while the ancient Chams were Hindu, the 60,000 currently living Chams are
> Muslim and live largely in the south.  They were completely absorbed into
> Vietnam in the 17th century, but initially they dominated the southern part
> of the peninsula and were rivals of the Vietnamese, who controlled the
> north.

    What a nice oportunity to remind a good book: "La voie royale"
("the royal way" ?)  from Andre Malraux...

            greets,

                        Ricardo  Reis

                "Non Serviam"





- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 12:11:24 +0200
From: Fritz Feger <[e-mail]>
Subject: Zorn and WDR orchestra

Hi,

yesterday I heard in the radio that the WDR Orchestra (West German
Broadcast, Cologne) has ordered a composition from John Zorn which is due
to be performed and recorded this year. The WDR orchestra is brilliant, and
they have, probably good for Zorn, some bucks to spend.

Unfortunately, when the radio speaker continued with some sentences of
remarks, my car radio only received noise. When I finally reached a
position with sufficient sound, he had already passed over to the next
topic... a very zorn-ish experience, I kind of enjoyed it.

Best;
Fritz.


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 07:26:27 -0500
From: Joseph Zitt <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: sdrawkcabssa

On Thu, May 03, 2001 at 09:30:48PM -0700, z~S wrote:
> Putting in great effort to hear Cecil Taylor talk, then not going to hear him play, is dyslexia at its most severe.

I've heard him play. I think I'd be too grumpy after this last event to
listen clearly to him play this weekend.

- --
|> ~The only thing that is not art is inattention~ --- Marcel Duchamp <|
| [e-mail]           http://www.metatronpress.com/jzitt |
| Latest CD: Jerusaklyn                  http://www.mp3.com/josephzitt |
| Comma: Voices of New Music    Silence: the John Cage Discussion List |


- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 10:26:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Alasnoaxis (the shape of jazz to come?)

The Wire predicting "the future of jazz" is sort of
like George W. Bush discussing the future of peace.

Ken Waxman


- --- EfrΘn_del_Valle <[e-mail]> wrote:

> After reading so much appraisal to the group and
> even seeing in "The Wire" a statement that this is
> "the future of jazz" I hope that they're very wrong.



_______________________________________________________
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Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 04 May 2001 08:35:02 -0700
From: "Patrice L. Roussel" <[e-mail]>
Subject: Re: Michael Blake

On Fri, 4 May 2001 11:14:40 +0100 (WET DST)  Ricardo Reis wrote:
>
>     What a nice oportunity to remind a good book: "La voie royale"
> ("the royal way" ?)  from Andre Malraux...

If you can stand the usual infatuation of intellectuals for "men of
action".

I am sure that Nabokov would have described this book as literature for
teenagers :-).

HUMAN CONDITION, IMHO, is a much better novel (from a literaty point of
view), and its historical dimension is quite strong.

    Patrice.

- -

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 4 May 2001 12:02:58 -0700 (PDT)
From: Theo Klaase <[e-mail]>
Subject: Billy Higgins

- --0-1330573317-989002978=:56190
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii


Billy Higgins died yesterday, May 2nd from liver complications and pneumonia...

He'd played with Coleman, Rollins, Metheny, Redman, Monk and many more...





- ---------------------------------
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices
- --0-1330573317-989002978=:56190
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii

<P>Billy Higgins died yesterday, May 2nd from liver complications and pneumonia...</P>
<P>He'd played with Coleman, Rollins, Metheny, Redman, Monk and many more...</P>
<P> </P><p><br><hr size=1><b>Do You Yahoo!?</b><br>
<a href="http://auctions.yahoo.com/">Yahoo! Auctions</a> - buy the things you want at great prices
- --0-1330573317-989002978=:56190--

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 02:43:05 EDT
From: [e-mail]
Subject: Re: Soft Machine

In a message dated 4/16/01 7:26:04 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
[e-mail] writes:

<< > Would anyone else agree that *any* SM beats the hell out of what Karl
 Jenkins
 > is doing these days...?

 What's he up to? >>

Completely forgot about answering this, Marcin.  Sorry!

He's the composer of that modern-day-Vivaldi-sounding stuff that's played
behind the diamond advertisements on T.V. over here in the States.  I know
that probably does you no good where you are--maybe somebody can chirp in
with the handle I'm forgetting at this moment.

Adiemus...is that it?

- --
=dg=

- -

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 5 May 2001 14:56:34 +0200
From: "=?iso-8859-1?Q?Efr=E9n_del_Valle?=" <[e-mail]>
Subject: the tango lesson

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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    charset="iso-8859-1"
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Hi everyone!

I just found in towerrecords.com a film with a soundrack by Fred Frith. =
The title is "The Tango Lesson". I feel like there is some error there =
since as the title says, the score must be based on tangos.=20

Anybody knows something about this film?

Regards,
Efr=E9n

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<HTML>
<HEAD>

<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
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<META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Hi everyone!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>I just found in towerrecords.com a =
film with a=20
soundrack by Fred Frith. The title is "The Tango Lesson". I =
feel like=20
there is some error there since as the title says, the score must be =
based on=20
tangos. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Anybody knows something about this=20
film?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 size=3D2>Regards,</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000000 =
size=3D2>Efrén</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

- ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C0D573.93DF1580--


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- -

------------------------------

End of Zorn List Digest V3 #405
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