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2001-05-01
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From: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com (Zorn List Digest)
To: zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Subject: Zorn List Digest V3 #403
Reply-To: zorn-list
Sender: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Errors-To: owner-zorn-list-digest@lists.xmission.com
Precedence: bulk
Zorn List Digest Wednesday, May 2 2001 Volume 03 : Number 403
In this issue:
-
RenΘ Lussier
AMM
Re: AMM
koenig to blake
Re: AMM
Re: AMM
Re: AMM
AMPLIFY 2001: mainsine (nyc promo)
L.A
on the G-Force thing
Re: L.A
Re: EB Surprise Set
Re: EB Surprise Set
Re: EB Surprise Set
lounge lizards on sessions
Re: AMM
Re: EB Surprise Set (long)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 21:05:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Pierre=20Toussaint?= <pierrecharlestoussaint@yahoo.ca>
Subject: RenΘ Lussier
The web site for victo records is
http://www.victo.qc.ca/
you can also order it form DAME which also sells it
and other victo cd's with Lussier. That's also where
you can get info on the Fred Frith Guitar Quartet cd's
http://www.actuellecd.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 21:45:20 EDT
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: AMM
I attended seven AMM sets over the last couple of weeks, the last half or so
of their US tour. rather than giving specific concert reports, here are some
stray thoughts:
the Mount Vernon church in Baltimore is one of the most beautiful I've seen
in the US. this set was the closest I've seen AMM to playing religious,
sacred music.
giving John Tilbury a baby grand piano to play, as Bard did for his solo
Cardew set and AMM, is like giving Mark McGwire a plastic bat. the atmosphere
at Bard was one of general disrespect on many levels, which I wasn't too
happy about, as Brian can attest to.
the crowd at the Knitting Factory was much more respectful than I expected,
and AMM's sets, at least the first three, were less fragile than the three
previous ones, adapting to the atmosphere in the room as well as the
acoustic.
Christian Wolff hurried through his performance at Roulette Sunday, forgoing
the usual intermission, to make it over in time for the bulk of the last set,
and the set seemed to be a bit of a tribute to him, as well as a coda to the
tour. achingly beautiful from start to finish.
there are never any inconsequential notes at AMM shows, which is one reason
the overall feel tends to be that of a dreamlike state. nothing ever breaks
you out of your reverie as being blatantly wrong. occasionally, they make a
poor choice of sounds, but it's rarely evident to anyone but themselves.
let's hear some other feedback, not just on the NYC shows. I know at least
one person here attended the Baltimore set, and I'm pretty sure there's
someone else out there who was at the Dartmouth one. :)
Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 May 2001 22:29:05 -0400
From: "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com>
Subject: Re: AMM
At 09:45 PM 5/1/01 EDT, JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote:
>
>let's hear some other feedback, not just on the NYC shows.
Reluctantly because it's such old news, but the Chicago show was my first
time seeing the group, and it was wonderful. The setting was in an
auditorium at a student union type place, with the stage dotted with old
floor lamps and no other lights. A fairly large crowd, probably a couple
hundred, very respectful except for some folks in the front row who left
early on (the show had gotten a Critic's Choice preview from John Corbett
in the local weekly activities newspaper). It seemed like a slow start,
with Rowe getting up and checking equipment while Prevost and Tilbury made
some small sounds, but once it got going it was great. Tilbury disappeared
off stage twice and made some kind of noises, Prevost was amazing with the
scrapes on his bass drum, and Rowe -- what can I say? My significant other
now prefers this kind of concert to anything else I pick, and I also took
two other friends who had no experience with this kind of music at all, but
who said they just closed their eyes and went wherever the sounds led them.
The contrast with the Brotzmann et al at the Empty Bottle later that week
was very pronounced. Literally only two rows of seats, all of which were
gone by the time we got there 90 minutes before showtime. I think I'm
getting too old for the smoky bar scene, especially when it's all big guys
standing elbow to elbow. Sometimes I left the rest of my group at the back
of the bar, where we snagged the last four barstools, to weasel my way up
close to the stage, but great as Brotzmann and Fred Anderson were, AMM was
by far the better of the concerts.
The surprise set on Thursday night was a Dutch (I think) trio featuring sax
and double bass (sorry, I've forgotten the third instrument, but it wasn't
percussion). At the back of the bar it was nearly inaudible, but when I
got close enough to listen it was very interesting. The sax player
reminded me of John Butcher with the quiet details he managed to get. The
group isn't posted on the Empty Bottle web site, but if anyone was there
and actually caught the names of the players, please let me know. No one
in the outer room had any idea of who they were when we left either.
- --
Caleb Deupree
cdeupree@erinet.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 23:18:22 EDT
From: Acousticlv@aol.com
Subject: koenig to blake
In a message dated 5/1/01 8:46:55 PM, you wrote:
<<np. Michael Blake -- Drift (what a fine suprise from this lounge lizard --
anybody familiar with his other CDs?)
>>
dear michael,
got drift in the mail this week; thanks
thought youd be pleased to see the above, from the zorn-list :)
regards
steve koenig
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 23:22:16 EDT
From: DvdBelkin@aol.com
Subject: Re: AMM
> let's hear some other feedback, not just on the NYC shows.
I made the just the late set on Sunday. I really liked the part at the very
end where John Tilbury jumped up on the piano bench and tore off his shirt
while screaming "ow! ow! ow!" as Keith set fire to his guitar and Prevost
hurled his sticks and drums into the audience before storming off shouting
"We're a ga-rage band!" over and over... What a way to close the American
tour, eh?
Actually... As someone with a long-standing beef about the senseless sensory
onslaughts of Energy Music (no, I am not exactly Brotzmann's biggest fan -
and I know he doesn't do it *all* the time, OK?), I found this - my first
time seeing AMM - to be, well, as different a challenge to my ears as
possible. I did find myself distracted at a few points by the sheer strength
of their self-discipline, caught myself wondering, "do they ever bust out and
swing it?" but for the most part - especially deeper into the set - the
experience was quite absorbing.
BTW, the ambiance was pretty good for the Knit, the sound reasonably
appropriate, not too heavily amped. The set did not seem to be heavily
attended, though - certainly not a sell-out. How 'bout the previous shows?
David
np (and remembering March 1999 at Tonic): Courvoisier/Feldman, Music for
Violin and Piano
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 23:31:03 EDT
From: DvdBelkin@aol.com
Subject: Re: AMM
In a message dated 5/1/01 11:24:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
DvdBelkin@aol.com writes:
> As someone with a long-standing beef about the senseless sensory
> onslaughts of Energy Music (no, I am not exactly Brotzmann's biggest fan -
> and I know he doesn't do it *all* the time, OK?)
Let me hasten to add that I hadn't read Caleb's post when I wrote that, I
wasn't responding to it or picking particularly on Brotzmann... His was just
the first name to come to mind when I was thinking of examples of guys who've
made my brain bleed. Profusely.
Peace,
David
- -
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 May 2001 23:36:03 EDT
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: Re: AMM
In a message dated 5/1/01 11:22:16 PM, DvdBelkin writes:
<< The set did not seem to be heavily attended, though - certainly not a
sell-out. How 'bout the previous shows? >>
that was the worst attended of the four shows, around 85. the other three
drew between 100-130 people apiece.
Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 00:23:06 EDT
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: AMPLIFY 2001: mainsine (nyc promo)
Erstwhile Records, in conjunction with For 4 Ears and Amoebic, is proud to=20
present:
AMPLIFY 2001: mainsine=20
A two night festival, showcasing some of the world's premier electroacoustic=
=20
improvisers from Japan, Switzerland and France, in familiar combinations as=20
well as first-time meetings. Each of the six musicians will take part in=20
three sets over the course of the two nights.=20
May 14:=20
8 PM-Filament: Otomo Yoshihide/Sachiko M
10 PM-M&M's: Sachiko M/Erik M (world premiere performance)
12 AM-poire_z: G=FCnter M=FCller/Voice Crack/Erik M
May 15:
8 PM-Filament 2: Otomo Yoshihide/Sachiko M/G=FCnter M=FCller
10 PM-Bits, Bots & Signs: Otomo Yoshihide/Voice Crack (world premiere=20
performance)
12 AM-poire_z: G=FCnter M=FCller/Voice Crack/Erik M
Tonic, 107 Norfolk St., NYC.
more info at www.tonicnyc.com, or e-mail Jon Abbey at erstrecs@aol.com=20
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 15:20:00 +1000 (EST)
From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Edgar=20Lee?= <edgaralee@yahoo.com.au>
Subject: L.A
I'm an Australian on tour in the U.S for a few months.
However, before I go to New York where I know where to
go, I'm in Los Angeles for a few weeks. Where is a
good place to see bands? The line up at the L.A Knit
looks really crappy. The L.A Weekly offers nothing
much. Are stores like Arons the place to go?
Edgar
NP Aerosmith,Queen, Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple,Eagles,
America, I'm in hell aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhh
_____________________________________________________________________________
http://store.yahoo.com.au - Yahoo! Store
- - It's time you had your business online!
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 09:33:11 +0100 (WET DST)
From: Ricardo Reis <l43384@alfa.ist.utl.pt>
Subject: on the G-Force thing
Being a digest receiver I invoke paragraph 3/4, line 3 for late
posts. If you're stil interested in G-force i would advise to explore the
following link:
http://www.anipike.com/series3.html
it's from a site with links to anime series and a god starting
point for getting to know more about G-force (or any other anime serie
whatsoever).
greets,
Ricardo Reis
"NON SERVIAM"
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 06:34:03 -0700
From: "z~S" <keith@pfmentum.com>
Subject: Re: L.A
We've got John Butcher solo at City Hall in Ventura on June 15
if you're here then.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 10:16:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <mingusaum@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: EB Surprise Set
Caleb (and others):
Thursday's surprise set at the Empty Bottle was made
up of:
Joost Buis (trombone); Hans Koch (bass clarinet,
soprano saxophone) and Wilbert de Joode (bass)
IMHO I thought this interaction was more interesting
than the Sun ra tribute that proceeded it. Buis et. al
didn't seem to go much past "ghost band" with Ra
classics. But as Caleb said the one-off improv between
the three above was quite fascinating.
The other surprise set that worked very well was
Friday night's with Wolfgang Fuchs (sopranino, bass
clarinet); David Stackenas (guitar) and Fred
Lonberg-Holm (cello). Fuchs told me it was the first
time he ever played with the other musicians.
Ovreall I'm glad to see that there's more mixing of
European musicians with performers from both Chicago's
North and *South* sides. Now if the Chicago folks
would continue that *without* the Europeans around ...
Ken Waxman
- --- "Caleb T. Deupree" <cdeupree@erinet.com> wrote:
> The surprise set on Thursday night was a Dutch (I
> think) trio featuring sax and double bass (sorry,
I've forgotten the third instrument, but it wasn't
> percussion). At the back of the bar it was nearly
> inaudible, but when I got close enough to listen it
was very interesting.
> The sax player reminded me of John Butcher with the
quiet details he managed to get. The
> group isn't posted on the Empty Bottle web site, but
> if anyone was there
> and actually caught the names of the players, please
> let me know. No one
> in the outer room had any idea of who they were when
> we left either.
_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 10:19:53 EDT
From: JonAbbey2@aol.com
Subject: Re: EB Surprise Set
In a message dated 5/2/01 10:16:38 AM, mingusaum@yahoo.ca writes:
<< Ovreall I'm glad to see that there's more mixing of
European musicians with performers from both Chicago's
North and *South* sides. Now if the Chicago folks
would continue that *without* the Europeans around ... >>
who are the two groups of musicians you're referring to? I wasn't aware of
dueling scenes in Chicago, but I've never been to any shows there.
Jon
www.erstwhilerecords.com
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 10:27:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <mingusaum@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: EB Surprise Set
Jon:
Traditionally in Chicago there have been two "scenes".
The AACM-dominated South Side and the
European-directed North (can I be any more subtle?)
Except for folks like Jim Baker, Ken Vandermark and
Kent Kessler who sometimes play at the Velvet Lounge,
and Hamid Drake and Fred Anderson who sometimes play
at the Empty Bottle, few performers of either genre
make the Side to Side trek.
Ken Waxman
- --- JonAbbey2@aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 5/2/01 10:16:38 AM,
> mingusaum@yahoo.ca writes:
>
> << Ovreall I'm glad to see that there's more mixing
> of
> European musicians with performers from both
> Chicago's
> North and *South* sides. Now if the Chicago folks
> would continue that *without* the Europeans around
> ... >>
>
> who are the two groups of musicians you're referring
> to? I wasn't aware of
> dueling scenes in Chicago, but I've never been to
> any shows there.
>
> Jon
> www.erstwhilerecords.com
>
> -
>
_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca
- -
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 May 2001 00:30:23 +1000
From: "Julian" <jcurwin@hartingdale.com.au>
Subject: lounge lizards on sessions
I'm sure this edition of Sessions At West 54th was seen in the US long
ago... well, we finally got it in Australia last night, and I have a few
questions that Zornlisters may know the answers to. Firstly, was that Evan
on piano? The camera's avoidance of him coupled with his facial hair made it
hard to tell... And secondly, what were those tunes? Can they be found on
any albums?
Julian.
P.S. Anyone looking for something interesting in Sydney on Thursday night,
check out Mancini's in Leichhardt (in the Italian Forum, 23 Norton St),
where the Germ Theory Trio is playing. The music blends free jazz with
'world' flavours, and includes pieces by Pachora, Naftule's Dream and Don
Byron. The night will be hosted by Monsieur Camembert with their usual mix
of gypsy, klezmer and jazz...
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 May 2001 16:33:11 -0000
From: "thomas chatterton" <chatterton23@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: AMM
>From: DvdBelkin@aol.com
> > As someone with a long-standing beef about the senseless sensory
>onslaughts of Energy Music (no, I am not exactly Brotzmann's biggest fan...
>His was just the first name to come to mind when I was thinking of examples
>of guys who've made my brain bleed. Profusely.
I'm just a bit puzzled as to why a discussion of AMM live should be used as
an opportunity for a very curt, backhanded dismissal of Peter Brotzmann and
his music, especially in lieu of his recent activities. Anyone who was lucky
enough to catch the latest Die Like A Dog quartet (with Roy Campbell) and/or
the Chicago Tentet + 2 last summer should realise that Brotzmann has become
one of the most vital players & leaders on the scene today, especially in
the context of his Euro Chicago alliance. You would also know that the
sounds these groups are producing are far from being "senseless sensory
onslaughts"! If this music causes your brain to bleed, perhaps that is not
such a bad thing after all. There is a case for the benefits of trepanation!
np: Zorn Godard/Spillane
_________________________________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com.
- -
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 May 2001 12:43:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Ken Waxman <mingusaum@yahoo.ca>
Subject: Re: EB Surprise Set (long)
Mike:
I'm not try to ascribe "blame" to either side, nor can
I really speak for sociological and cultural practices
in places I visit for only a few days each year. But
these kind of artificial separations seem to exist in
every city -- be they Black, White as in many
American cities, French-English in Montreal or even
Free *Jazz* oriented improvisers being seperate from
Free *Music* oriented improvisers as I've sometimes
noted here in Toronto.
Strangely -- or perhaps expectedly enough -- it's
usually not the musicians who create these ghettos,
racial or otherwise. Fred Hersh has a group with
Michael Moore and Gerry Hemingway, for instance and
the "famous" Braxton Quartet was described as "one
woman, one African American, one Jew and a WASP" by
someone in Graham Lock's book.
However --and now I have to be careful because I'm
speaking as a non-American "outsider" -- many of the
scenes in U.S. cities seem to divide along racial
lines. This is partially related to the fact that most
musicians start off playing with friends, and there is
less of a melting pot in North American than
different, parallel communities. Furthermore venue
placement and policies seems to dictate musician set
ups as well. In Montreal, for instance, to be
simplistic, since few native born anglo or allophones
live in the Far East End, the chances of having many
of them in a band dominated by Nationalstic Quebecois
is slim (I know there are exceptions).
At the same time while the AACM, for instance, may sen
to be "exclusionary" it hasn't stopped different
members of the association -- Wadada Leo Smith, Fred
Anderson, Kahil El' Zabor, Braxton etc. -- from
working with non-Black musicians for a protracted
period of time.
It may sometimes seem that Whites are being blamed for
this state of affairs, but only because with their
in-the-main more priviledged socio-economic position
- --and yes there are many exceptions -- they don't seem
to have as many non-white musicians as they could in
their bands.
Obviously somebody (everybody) is soon going to come
up with numerousless examples of inter-racial
cooperation, but that doesn't change the fact that
most aggregations we see in many places -- be it Victo
or Chicago -- have a homogenous racial make up.
Again not ascribing blame to anyone, I would just hope
that these types of groups are formed on strictly
musical decisions.
Ken
- --- Mike Chamberlain <cleanhead69@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >Traditionally in Chicago there have been two
> "scenes".
> >The AACM-dominated South Side and the
> >European-directed North (can I be any more subtle?)
> >
> >Except for folks like Jim Baker, Ken Vandermark and
> >Kent Kessler who sometimes play at the Velvet
> Lounge,and Hamid Drake and Fred Anderson who
sometimes play at the Empty Bottle, few performers of
either genre make the Side to Side trek.
> >
>
> Would you go so far as to say that this is the
> result of out-and-out racism on the part of the
North Siders? Or is it the result of exclusionary
> practices on the part of the AACMers? Great Black
> Music doesn't seem to need white musicians--though
it gets by largely on the support of white
> fans, it seems.
> I don't mean to be offensive, but you've raised
> similar issues before, Ken, and it seems (correct me
if I've gained a wrong impression) that the blame
> is implicitly placed on the white musicians.
> Considering the AACM tradition, this would seem to
be a rather simplistic assessment.
>
> Maybe I'm misreading you. Sorry if that's the case.
_______________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.ca address at http://mail.yahoo.ca
- -
------------------------------
End of Zorn List Digest V3 #403
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